Cantering fjords
This message is from: Linda Lottie horselo...@hotmail.com I'll jump in here and share that our Hasse also LOVES to canter. Prefers it to trotting!!! He is much more forward than his mother...but a level headed guy. He makes a great lesson horse and the kids love to ride him (in an arena) because he likes to canter! One day a 10 year old with little to no horse experience wanted to ride him. Of course, we walked along side her...soon she was turning and stopping and moving out with beginner confidence. Round and round she went ...we adults were visiting I was not paying total close attention when I looked her way and she had Hasse in a most beautiful collected trot!!! Calm and steering pretty well, Hasse was listening to her 100%. Gotta love that horse He really likes kids. Linda in WI rain today Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2013, at 12:22 PM, Logans - Willows Edge Farm LLC willowsedgef...@msn.com wrote: This message is from: Logans - Willows Edge Farm LLC willowsedgef...@msn.com I think there is so much personal take on temperaments - if you've been around horses for a long time, a normal 5, may be a 2. Or a 7. As for forward, I have one Fjord mare like Rosemary, who LOVES to go. Sweet as can be, handles wildlife in the woods like they're pasture pals and a great little lesson lady, but she moves. She also likes to ... CANTER! Yes, a Fjord who loves to canter and smoothly I'll add too. Rosemary, I think if everyone in WA got their blow dryers fans out you might be able to push that rain out of there - we could use more in SW Idaho. ;) Corinne Logan Willows Edge Farm, LLC Boise/Kuna, Idaho (208) 779-0483 www.willowsedgefarm.com https://www.facebook.com/WillowsEdgeFarmIdaho This message is from: Rose or Murph roseormu...@ywave.com Hi, I have to disagree with some of the beliefs that a forward moving Fjord horse is a high strung horse. I had another great ride on my mare tonight. She was forward, and i could tell she physically feels great. She is a quiet confident mare, who I can ride out at dusk on the buckle. She covers lots of ground in a quick efficient walk. We can keep up with my friend on his 17 hand warmblood. I do not have to pump her with my leg, or kick her in to a trot. I ride english so I feel like I won the lotto with a horse that loves to move out, it makes my job much easier. Rosemary in Wa.rain is on its way:( Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Dressage gelding for sale Good cantering horse!
This message is from: Misha Michael misha...@eoni.com Hi Folks: I have a 13 yo brown dun NFHR WELL BROKE sound Fjord gelding for sale. Tromme is 14 hands and solid first level and schooling at third level dresage. He loves to work and has a strong work ethic and he really likes being a dressage horse. He is gentle and he has three great gaits and he is light, lifted and rounded in the canter, -hah--re: one of the recent issues of the digest that addresses this issue. He is out of Quad Ls Christina and by Woodland's Jovan who is a full brother to Woodlands Dustin. He would make an awesome first or second level rider's dressage pony. Video can be seen on youtube here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpOArHxsvlY Email me at mishama...@eoni.com if you are interested. His ground manners are good. He also does first level PNH ground work. he will probably be going to Tr-cities Washington until sold for a tune up with an upper level dressage rider. You tube video taken on July 4 of 2010 Misha Nogha in Eastern Oregon at Shota Fjords Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: CANTERING
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interesting topic as I have my Fjords out in pasture with a herd of Hanoverian's and they don't move more like Hanoverian's. They move like Fjords:0) They all walk, trot and canter. That is kind of like putting me out on the court with Michael Jordan for a few years. It does not matter what I see or what you do to me I still am not going to be able to dunk that ball in that hoop! My conformation just will not allow it and if by some miraculous feet I come close it most provable that I will become lame sometime in the near future! So this reference does not make much since to me as far as developing hind end usage( yes they will be more fit). Either you have it or you don't and you have to work super hard and long to get a little with the horses that don't have it and a lot less to get fantastic results with the ones that do. As I watch all the youngsters run and play. It is easy to see by how they take off, if canter is an easy natural gait for them. Some of them do it well and some trot into it as fast as they can and prefer to stay at a trot. After all they were not bred for 100's of years to do airs above the ground, such as the Lippizans and as you study the history of them only the cream of the crop even makes it to perform those feats most are used as Carriage horses . Bonnie Morris Western, WA where it is now too hot! **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut000507) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Cantering Trims - A Funny
This message is from: Ronni Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] A Funny: R.Taylor, Straw Hat Stables To help the non-Fjordies, Winnie, (who was wonderfully schooled), had the short mane. Tigger, who was in training, had the long mane. Justin, our trainer, was refreshing Winnie on flying lead changes at the canter. Tigger was learning to canter on command - 1st lesson. Justin got on the 1st horse (Tigger) and cued for what he expected to be a nice canter got a trot. So he cued again. On the 3rd try, Tigger figured out what she thought he wanted, and did 2 laps of the arena in a canter at the speed of light. Justin pulled her up, patted her, looked down at the long mane and said, I'm on the wrong horse, aren't I? We didn't let him forget that for many moons. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: [?? Probable Spam] Re: Cantering
This message is from: Warren Stockwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you Sarah, I'm not sure I totally get it yet it's clear I'm an old dog trying to learn a new trick. Kaari moves forward into the hand but if the hand is not holding on tight she will take the reins out of the hand and out goes the nose. So with my old school brain I see a horse looking beautiful for a good portion of the time as she moves off the hind end but I wonder if I am creating a hard mouth?? When I watch a dressage class I don't see soft I see tight heavy contact. I see riders that look like they have a stick up the *. I see horses that look wound tight like a spring, so how can that be a pleasure??? Again I don't know what I'm doing so I don't intend to offend, I could easily be mistaken. I clearly don't have an educated eye in this area I just need to watch more classes with folks I know, know what they are doing so I can see it in a different light. I'll be going to The Morgan North Star show this weekend for a while to watch some of my clients. Maybe I can get a visual of what I'm trying to learn. I just don't want to make a mess of my horses. If I ever need to rehome them ( heaven forbid ) it would be easier if they were trained for the average rider and easy to work with.This is going to be tough on my brain. Anyone want to take on a old school girl and help with retraining her brain (LOL). Roberta MN - Original Message - From: Sarah Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 3:48 PM Subject: [?? Probable Spam] Re: Cantering This message is from: Sarah Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Think of the horse as a spring. If you push on one end of the spring you can move it from place to place, but in order to make the spring shorter you have to push on both ends. Now, if you just hang on the horses mouth you will create tension, but if you teach the horse to go forward from the leg and be received by the hand, the horse will round his whole top line and be in balance and be very soft in your hand. (not tight!) I have been teaching two students canter work using Fjords. I found that it is really effective to longe them on the horse in side reins. I teach them how to make the horse go forward to the reins without them using their hands. then I teach them how to do a trot to walk transition without using the reins. Then a canter - trot transition (again no reins.) This really opens their eyes that downward transitions are about going forward, not about yanking on the reins! Rember that you have to train the horse to compensate for your extra weight. The flat backed on the forehand posture that horses at liberty can use effectively doesn't work so well with a person and saddle in the middle of their back. It is also true that a horse can learn to carry themselves this way with less and less rider input, but they will always have tendency to uncoil the spring when you release the front end. The question is why is it important ( yet effective ) to have contact with the mouth?? It seems to me that if the horse is right you should not be in it's mouth but relaxed not tight in the body but relaxed??? I've always been taught to leave 'em be when they're right . I've been told to train your horse to collect rather than hold them in. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Cantering and proper training
This message is from: beth gerst [EMAIL PROTECTED] On the subject of cantering. With correct, proper training from the beginning I do believe any horse can learn to canter well and in a balanced correct frame. If we think back to the days where horses actually were free and ran in herds they all GALLOPED with one another which means there is no reason horses cannot learn to canter in a nice frame balancing the weight of the rider and their own body. Some horses will take much longer than others to learn the proper way and the rider must have an abundance of patience to get a well balanced canter done correctly. I do cringe when I see not just Fjords but other horse breeds in the show ring being run into the canter from this crazy fast trot then the horse takes off into a uncontrollable canter that looks like something out of a Thewell cartoon book. If the time is taken to correctly train the horse then the horse will easily produce a beautiful canter for the rider. I do believe that the horses confirmation will dictate how comfortable the canter will be as well as the trot on some horses. But, again correct training and teaching the horse to round his body and to balance himself will only improve all of his gaits not just the canter. The horse should be working from the hind end and not just dragging his rider from the front end which I see happen in this breed a lot. Good luck to all that are schooling the canter.give it time, patience and above all correct training from the beginning. Beth and Lex in CT. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Cantering and proper training/ mane trim
This message is from: Warren Stockwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just started taking lessons with Kaari in the Dressage style. First my daughter is working than me. I honestly don't have the skill to do it or the real interest but I am starting to now! I have found that rather than riding as though I am on the trail ( relaxed rein and body ) having the horse under me more and working off the back end it is easier to make a change. Now I don't know if I am saying this all right its the first lesson and we've been practicing since ( 4 days ). We have gotten closer to the canter than ever before. I find ( could be wrong ) that she has to be collected to even make the jump into the canter. If I don't set it up right before I ask I'm destine to fail. The question is why is it important ( yet effective ) to have contact with the mouth?? It seems to me that if the horse is right you should not be in it's mouth but relaxed not tight in the body but relaxed??? I've always been taught to leave 'em be when they're right . I've been told to train your horse to collect rather than hold them in. So this is rather confusing to my old brain. Maybe someone can give me some help with this. I'm not sure it won't end in a hard mouthed horse which equals less responsive right? Again new arena and old habits die hard. I just trimmed for the first time with a electric clippers! I've always done it with a scissors and find this works darn good and much faster! I find the high point on the neck ( where the natural arch is ) start there and work in a gradual decline twards the pole than to the withers. I use my hand/fingers as a guide for the leingth guage. seems to work fine. For a Fjord that has never had a electric clippers near her Kaari fell asleep!! Hastle free I love it!! Thanks, Roberta MN The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Sarah Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Think of the horse as a spring. If you push on one end of the spring you can move it from place to place, but in order to make the spring shorter you have to push on both ends. Now, if you just hang on the horses mouth you will create tension, but if you teach the horse to go forward from the leg and be received by the hand, the horse will round his whole top line and be in balance and be very soft in your hand. (not tight!) I have been teaching two students canter work using Fjords. I found that it is really effective to longe them on the horse in side reins. I teach them how to make the horse go forward to the reins without them using their hands. then I teach them how to do a trot to walk transition without using the reins. Then a canter - trot transition (again no reins.) This really opens their eyes that downward transitions are about going forward, not about yanking on the reins! Rember that you have to train the horse to compensate for your extra weight. The flat backed on the forehand posture that horses at liberty can use effectively doesn't work so well with a person and saddle in the middle of their back. It is also true that a horse can learn to carry themselves this way with less and less rider input, but they will always have tendency to uncoil the spring when you release the front end. The question is why is it important ( yet effective ) to have contact with the mouth?? It seems to me that if the horse is right you should not be in it's mouth but relaxed not tight in the body but relaxed??? I've always been taught to leave 'em be when they're right . I've been told to train your horse to collect rather than hold them in. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
CANTERING
This message is from: jerrell friz [EMAIL PROTECTED] There have been some excellent posts on this subject. Jasmine wrote, I always asked for it on a trail NOT in the arena. Cantering on a circle (even taking the turns in a large arena) it a whole different story and needs a horse to be coordinated and suple enough not to throw himself on the ground. Abby would have been terrified to be asked to canter in an arena at first because she knew that she would risk falling down in the corners. - Folks please reread this. THIS IS EXCELLENT ADVISE. Horses have a fear of falling, like dying. Might become a meal for the wolf. HORSES LEARN BY 2 WAYS. 1.Usually by their mother, and their pasture mates 2. By humans. When a horse is first born their brain is a clear slate, like getting a new hard drive. They first see movement, they try movement. They see their mother stand, they stand. They see their mother walk, they walk, etc. You get the idea, later on cantering. Humans, can teach horses to canter also, by using the correct tools and steps. HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM. More and more people are stalling their horses, or keeping them in a small area where it would be IMPOSSIBLE to canter. I know of several breeders that have way to many horses on only a couple of acres. When buying a horse,, pay attention to where the horse lives If you buy a horse out of a stall, don't expect it to know how to canter. If you can't ride it,, get someone that can. If the, breeder, or owner,, says horse can't canter, say,,, good by See ya. OR, expect to pay lots in training I have a neighbor who has 14 non Fjord type horses, [breed of horse makes no difference] they are stalled 7-24's, some are almost 20 years old. I have observed , that when one of these horses is turned out for about 10 minutes, while the stall is being cleaned, they can hardly move, only turn in one direction, sometimes trip, and fall.. The owner ,will not listen to any suggestions. [He has 37 acres of hilly terrain, no fence, nothing but weeds and brush... perfect, for a big fire.] Sadly, this is becoming to common, all over.. HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW HORSES LEARN WITH OTHER HORSES. If you ever get a chance to see the IMAX movie, on White Horses, [I can't remember the exact name] you will see how the Europeans have for many, many years raised their horses. They simply turn their young horses out with others in a large herd, with plenty of room to run and play. Now, if one could turn a young Fjord horse out with these Lipizzaners for about 3 years, you would have a horse that moved like the herd, working off the rear end, lots of front action, rounded, all muscled out, not fat,,, etc., etc. Or, turn your Fjord horse out with a herd of Mustangs in Nevada, come back in 3 years, you can bet your cute, little Fordie will canter, and canter all day. I hope this makes sense to the folks that don't understand cantering. Regards, Jerry Friz, Anderson, Ca. PS. Horses don't have the brains to hate catering SORRY,, had to put that one in here. Ride and Drive your horses barrel to get the correct timing For your security this Message has been checked for Viruses as a courtesy of Com-Pair Services! The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: CANTERING
This message is from: Heather Baskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am very new to this list and to Fjord ownership, but Jerrell's post makes sense to me! My Fjord gelding lives 23/7 in the pasture (born on the pasture, raised in the pasture, you get the idea). He is only 2, but his movement is beautiful when he is out there with the Paints, Quarterhorses, etc. (he is the only Fjord where I board). He comes in for a very short time every evening for supper (a light vitamin/mineral supplement) which is a reward for standing in a stall for one hour a day. The only reason he comes in, is to teach him barn manners for grooming, etc., or perish the thought an unfortunate incident where he might need stall rest. Anyhow - aside from that - he is running in the pastures (trotting or cantering - it varies from day to day) - but he does do it naturally and quite often, in tandem with one of the mares in the herd. The latter being a very beautiful sight to behold. Looking forward to the day where we will do it together!!! Heather ~ HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW HORSES LEARN WITH OTHER HORSES. If you ever get a chance to see the IMAX movie, on White Horses, [I can't remember the exact name] you will see how the Europeans have for many, many years raised their horses. They simply turn their young horses out with others in a large herd, with plenty of room to run and play. Now, if one could turn a young Fjord horse out with these Lipizzaners for about 3 years, you would have a horse that moved like the herd, working off the rear end, lots of front action, rounded, all muscled out, not fat,,, etc., etc. Or, turn your Fjord horse out with a herd of Mustangs in Nevada, come back in 3 years, you can bet your cute, little Fordie will canter, and canter all day. I hope this makes sense to the folks that don't understand cantering. Regards, Jerry Friz, Anderson, Ca. __ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: cantering fjords
This message is from: Nature Friends Outdoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] For thoses that are getting discouraged here is my story : when I got Abby (drafty, short legs hmmm pot belly...) I figured that she would never canter. I think that she did not know how !! Little by little we made short little canters and I asked for them when she was naturally ready, I mean at times when she had real forward energy so that it came naturally. I always asked for it on a trail NOT in the arena. Cantering on a circle (even taking the turns in a large arena) it a whole different story and needs a horse to be coordinated and suple enough not to throw himself on the ground. Abby would have been terrified to be asked to canter in an arena at first because she knew that she would risk falling down in the corners. Long story short : you should see Abby now : almost a racing horse ! She LOVES cantering and picks up the canter with only a light vocal click. From a slow, laid back horse she transformed into a very forward horse that loves moving and is an absolute joy to ride. So don't get discouraged and just build the muscles and skills of your horses slowly and I bet all of them will enjoy cantering because moving is what makes horses happy. Good luck Yasmine Djabri The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
cantering Ivy
This message is from: Amy [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've been working with my five year old mare, Ivy, this summer, getting her going under saddle and out on trails. She had a few months of light walk/trot riding when she was three and then nothing until this summer, but she's doing great. Like my other Fjord mare, Belle, Ivy loves to motor down the trail, taking in the sights. She's still pretty green about arena riding, in the sense of knowing how to flex and bend and balance herself around a circle, so I haven't done any canter work with her in the arena. But the other day I decided to give it a try out on a wide, well-groomed trail across nearly-flat terrain. The idea was to let my friend's horse go first so that Ivy could just follow him into the canter, but Ivy's trot is so much faster than my friend's gelding's trot that we ended up in front. So I just sent some yeehaw! energy through my seat and kissed to her and away we went! She knows what a kiss means in the round pen, but in my experience that doesn't always translate when under saddle. She moved right into the canter from a fast but not rushed trot, which is nice. And her canter is so smooth! But all you Fjord people knew that already ;-) We had the opportunity to try cantering five or six different times on the trail, but never for very long. She seemed to get the idea of the transition pretty quickly, and she seemed to be having fun, although after about the third time I think she began to suspect that this might actually be work! She may even have burned a calorie or two. Someone from this list helped me buy this mare (registered as Sulphur Springs Vera) a few years ago, sight unseen, and I've just been delighted with her! I love all three of my Fjords, but as you all know, they each have their unique set of endearing traits. Ivy is my shadow pony, and she would be my farm helper pony too if she could only hold a hammer! You can see photos of her on my farm web site. --Amy -- Marehaven Farm ~*~ Longmont, CO http://www.marehaven.org The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Clipping, Drying and Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] we have had great luck with trotting over poles and progressing to small jumps. This gets their front end up and eventually after a jump of 18 or so, they will jump it and canter away in a relaxed way. Then you just keep them cantering. Yes...well...if there is one thing Joe likes less than cantering it would be jumping!! He is a complete master at dodging around the end or simply blowing right through them. I am determined to find a log to try him with (except that I hate to jump and just feel like its something he should learn to do better). Kate and Joe (who trots like the wind) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Cantering by Kay
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] trotting about - the horse decided to throw in a little buck - utilizing that leap movement at the very appropriate time - he pushed him into a very lovely canter - Not having a highly sensitive butt myself, I sometimes can't tell if Joe is bucking or leaping into the canter!! Either way it makes me laugh! Kate and Joe (basically, the best pony ever) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Clipping, Drying and Cantering
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe Joe KNOWS you hate to jump, obviously feels your unease. and what about cantering? are YOU comfortable with cantering? Horses are very perceptive, pick up any tension in your body, body language, etc. They KNOW if you are uneasy, or confident. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, warming up to a balmy +5! I am determined to find a log to try him with (except that I hate to jump and just feel like its something he should learn to do better). The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Clipping, Drying and Cantering
This message is from: Ardeth Obenauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have clipped the two that I am using now. I did it in September, so they continued to grow coat and now don't need blanketing, but are not as wooly as they would be if I hadn't clipped. For drying them after a workout, I have polarfleece coolers from Weathabeata that dry them very quickly. For horses that won't be shown, a hunt or trace clip works great. I had the experience of driving a pair in which one had a full coat and one a trace clip. The one with the clip didn't sweat at all and the one with the full coat sweated exactly where the other was clipped! What a revelation! I had always thought clipping the lower part of the horse was to leave them some protection on top, but apparently it does much more than that. Also, with the trace clip, a waterproof breathable sheet is usually plenty of blanket. As for cantering, we have had great luck with trotting over poles and progressing to small jumps. This gets their front end up and eventually after a jump of 18 or so, they will jump it and canter away in a relaxed way. Then you just keep them cantering. This has worked great for the three we have started under saddle. Ao Ardeth Obenauf The Lazy AO Farm Shelbyville, TN The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Cantering by Kay
This message is from: Pat Holland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kay Van Netta wrote: who believes that if you have to canter at all then a. --somebody must be shooting at you, or b. --you're really late for something and you should've planned your day better. Thank you Kay, you have to be related to Robin Williams or Billy CrystalI love your sense of humor. You always make me smile. With that thought process in mind,...I watched my husband, (the person who refuses to accept that X does exist) - riding one of our own Fjords the other day - trotting about - the horse decided to throw in a little buck - utilizing that leap movement at the very appropriate time - he pushed him into a very lovely canter - the hind end right under him - and maintained a rather impressive three or four rounds on the rail in my outdoor. I once heard a term used for selling a clumsy horse - yes he has three gates start, stumble and fall.. perhaps with what I just observed - we can say some Fjords are three 1/2 gated walk, trot and with a buck/canter. All horses, are different in how they learn and how they accept, treasure what you have. In humor, Pat Holland The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Fjords, Mules and Cantering....
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] we understand your frustration, but this can be done! even with the drafty-est Fjord! We have found that doing a lot of transition work is the key, as well as lunge work...we ride at a large lesson/boarding barn, altho we have our boys BHF Bjorn BHF Olaf at home here with us...(these guys love to canter in a free lunge too), we are the odd Fjord owners among TB's, Arabains, Andulusians, la de dah, But just getting them into one step of a canter, then praise-praise-praise, let them come down to a nice working trot, and then try it again, I think that the circle aids are the key, once they know that they are safe in consistant circling - bending- they build confidence. They have such a thick, strong neck, ...once they learn that they can still be balanced while bending, wow, it opens up a whole new world. And they will work from the rear then too. They seem to want to pull from the front, rather than have impulsion from the rear, altho that may be true of any young horse, ! they ne ed to learn this behavior, and a great coach doesn't hurt!!! We live in the Northeast, and do a lot of showing, we are always the only Fjords represented at the shows, one of the last 2-phase shows we were at, up near Boston, I overheard a middle aged rider with her coach, standing behind my son Paddy I as he was waiting to go in for the stadium jumping portion (already got a first in Training level, Bjorn does a sweet 20 meter canter circle!) and the coaches student said 'maybe I won't get that Quarter horse, I really like the looks of that Fjord'...and the coach said ' Oh, you don't want a Fjord, they are too stubborn' - and I turned around and said, ' Yep, maybe they are stubborn, but when you, as a rider, get something out of a Fjord, then you know that you are a really great rider' ...nuff saidgotta love this breed, they are awesome and bring out the best in us as riders!! best to you, Denise -- Original message -- From: lgp33 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: lgp33 [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a new Fjord owner this is my first posting on this site. I have a comment and a question. I am a mule owner (I ride and pack my mules) and until I got my Fjord I would have argued the superiority of mules over any horse! For me, the Fjord is the first horse I've encountered that matches up to my mules' abilities, strength, sure-footedness and intelligence - sorry if this offends the Fjord purists!. So, I was interested to see the debate following the Horse Illustrated article. My question is, how DO I get my Fjord to canter? Bror is nine years old and will only trot at very high speed (he hadn't been ridden much before I got him). I've tried round-penning him and tried riding him into a canter but with very limited success - I'm working at it every day. Will he get it eventually? Any suggestions? Thanks, Linda Patorni _ Linda Patorni High Mesa Ranch 794 Ojo de la Vaca Santa Fe, NM 87508 The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Cantering....
This message is from: Lauren Sellars [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re cantering/ Some fjords find it easier to canter then others. I have never met one that couldn't canter. A conformational fault is having an overly wide chest with legs on the outside so they have to paddle to get around the chest.The bottom quote here from Bridget is a very good one, to have a straight stretch and have another horse out front cantering in control, It usually works wonders . When I start canter work in the areana I give them so much credit for the first half a circle I'll get off give them give em a carrot, a massage, they know they did someting right. Praise praise praise. Don't ask for to much in the begining ask a little more each day. Sometimes going slowly gets you there faster. Good luck and be safe Lauren As far as getting your Fjord to canter, a nice long trail works for mine. Riding with other cantering horses helps, and if all else fails, ask for it on the way home :-). Yes, the Fjords can trot faster than other horses can canter. When mine offer this, I say, yes, that's nice, but I need something else. / )_~ /L/L Brigid Wasson SF Bay Area, CA www.eponahorsemanship.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Cantering....
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] When I got Stella she was 9 and in foal. When I started riding her I was a very novice rider. She did not even seem to know HOW to canter but had an awesome trot, faster than most horses could canter or even gallop. She would race around the paddock with this huge trot. Even my riding instructor couldn't get her to canter at first. I started working her in circles at the walk and trot, getting her more supple and low and behold, she started cantering! She would then be ale to canter out on a straight stretch of trail. Eventually my instructor could get her rounded up and into a very nice canter, but I still had trouble, It is amazing what a GOOD rider can do! My young mare, Anvil's Adel (Leidjo/Anvil's Stina-Rudaren) who is Stella's Granddaughter, can canter easily, is very athletic, she was raised her first two year on a mountain, so is very agile. I have Stella's son, Bjorken, a big 15-2HH gelding, who has some trouble cantering, but I think it is my fault...I actually prefer the trot with him, don't care if he doesn't canter! Oh, he galloped while I was riding him, chasing a moose! (Did he think it was another horse?) Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, clear and cold, -28F Re cantering/ Some fjords find it easier to canter then others. I have never met one that couldn't canter. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Cantering....
This message is from: Genie Dethloff [EMAIL PROTECTED] For four or five months before I sold Finne, my trainer worked on his cantering. He was started at six under saddle and was not started in cantering for 1 1/2 years as we had so much work in the walk and trot to get him off his front end and to be balanced so he didn't rush. His conformation and gaits were not the best for a dressage horse! My trainer found that the way to get him to canter nicely was to really have him going well in the trot, balance his energy back towards his hind end and help him lift up into the canter. This required not letting him run or rush into the canter at all - not even one or two steps. Of course at the beginning we had to run him some into it, but he learned the cues very quickly and then it was time to help him canter well. Each lesson, he would be asked to canter twice each way - starting with only a 1/4 or half circle and building up. We learned that if he didn't start off balanced and slow, it was very hard to get it after he started. We use the same method going into the trot from a walk; the horse should not speed up at all before taking his first trot step. A little energy is built up and contained and then asked for the transition. He also had to be supple and soft - if he hardened, grabbed the bit, flattened out, the canter was lost. She started him on a circle, making sure he was bent and flexed to the inside. If all of this was right, he took off in the correct lead also. If he was counterbent (looking and bent to the outside) he would not get the correct lead half the time. Once my trainer would make sure he was just how she wanted him going in the trot, got his energy collected and then lifted him into the canter, he could canter well for a few circles. He really seemed to love it but it took a lot of help from her. She had to ride the trot and walk doing figures between each time asking for the canter to keep him from anticipating and getting strong. Then when he felt really good, she could ask for a canter. Many people feel that you should bend a horse to the outside and use a strong outside cue to get the correct lead. As I understand the theory, the assumption is that if you unweight the inside foreleg, he will use that leg first and take the correct lead. (Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm incorrect in my assumption here). The problem with this plan is the canter really starts with the hind outside leg and the inside fore is the third beat. The outside leg used behind the girth is to tell the horse to step under with the outside rear leg first. Having energy and weight to the rear really helps the horse step off with the rear versus having the horse run on the forehand and fall into the canter. If you can work your horse on the lunge line and teach the word canter during ground work, it is easier to teach under saddle because you can use the voice cue also. Also time on the lunge allows the horse to develop balance in the canter without a riders weight interfering. Finne did not lunge well so we only lunged him in the canter a few times to teach the word. Then my trainer used the word under saddle. If I was bringing up a new young horse, I would make sure to have all three gaits going well on the lunge before the horse was ridden, but we couldn't use that plan with Finne. My trainer found that she could help him more from on his back than while holding the lunge line on the ground. When I sold him, he was not confirmed enough in the canter for me to canter him, but he was well on his way. -- Genie Dethloff Ann Arbor, Michigan The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Patti Jo says It takes a lot of hard work, they have a tendency to run thru the pressure, to be slow growers and be unbalanced and again run thru the unbalancedness of their body. I think the vast majority of them are quite rushy in their canter in the beginning. I am always so tickled when somebody else has an explanation for what I experience. I am just recently getting Joe to canter, and he just tears into it. I figured I needed to work on the transition up and getting it to last a bit longer, and then we can work on adjusting the speed. Kate and Joe (who surprised us all today when a visitor kissed instead of clucked and he jumped into the canter!!) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Fjords, Mules and Cantering....
This message is from: lgp33 [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a new Fjord owner this is my first posting on this site. I have a comment and a question. I am a mule owner (I ride and pack my mules) and until I got my Fjord I would have argued the superiority of mules over any horse! For me, the Fjord is the first horse I've encountered that matches up to my mules' abilities, strength, sure-footedness and intelligence - sorry if this offends the Fjord purists!. So, I was interested to see the debate following the Horse Illustrated article. My question is, how DO I get my Fjord to canter? Bror is nine years old and will only trot at very high speed (he hadn't been ridden much before I got him). I've tried round-penning him and tried riding him into a canter but with very limited success - I'm working at it every day. Will he get it eventually? Any suggestions? Thanks, Linda Patorni _ Linda Patorni High Mesa Ranch 794 Ojo de la Vaca Santa Fe, NM 87508 The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Fjords, Mules and Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 11/24/2006 4:52:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My question is, how DO I get my Fjord to canter? Bror is nine years old and will only trot at very high speed (he hadn't been ridden much before I got him). I've tried round-penning him and tried riding him into a canter but with very limited success - I'm working at it every day. Will he get it eventually? I guess I did not take exception to anything Mike had to say (although I have not read the article), because he has described *my* fjord perfectly, and I find him to be a perfect horse. Granted, I am not a breeder trying to sell horses, but I also don't believe in trying to market where a breed is headed as opposed to what a majority of the breed is. And I have heard more than one trainer compare fjords to mules, talking about their intelligence and the fact that they learn so quickly they will get bored with repetition and try to change things up. Anyway, I also agree with Mike that at least for my Fjord, the canter is not a comfortably occurring gait. He does not canter in pasture - he trots and gallops. He *can* canter, and we are working on that. I spent a series of days doing ground work and asking for one, then two, then more steps of the canter, rewarding him each time with a release. Once he got better, I rewarded with a bit of carrot and he got much better g. Under saddle, we just keep urging him faster at the trot, and he will eventually say I can't trot any faster and break into a canter. Our new goal is to lengthen the amount of time he will stay in the canter. I can only keep him in for the length of our arena. My trainer can keep him cantering for much, much longer. And I happily acknowledge there are many fjords out there who do *not* have the same aversion to cantering my Fjord does. Kate and Joe (who mentioned today that if I used that crop one more time to urge him faster he was going to buck...) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Fjords, Mules and Cantering....
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 11/24/2006 8:33:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For me, the Fjord is the first horse I've encountered that matches up to my mules' abilities, strength, sure-footedness and intelligence Welcome Linda! Funny, I recently had the opposite conclusion -- the mule is the only equine that can keep up with my Fjords :-). Several months ago I moved to a boarding facility owned by a mule man and had my first experience with the critters. They are smart, freakishly strong, great on the trail, and they get along with the Fjords! As far as getting your Fjord to canter, a nice long trail works for mine. Riding with other cantering horses helps, and if all else fails, ask for it on the way home :-). Yes, the Fjords can trot faster than other horses can canter. When mine offer this, I say, yes, that's nice, but I need something else. / )_~ /L/L Brigid Wasson SF Bay Area, CA www.eponahorsemanship.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re Cantering Balance - the horse has to be built right
This message is from: Beaver Dam Farm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia -- Well built Fjordhorses have no more problem cantering than any other reed. -- If I had the power to do it, I would LOVE to dispel this idea that Fjords can't canter. -- It's just not true! -- Yes, I know that some of the big, heavy, drafty Fjords with large heads and loaded frontends, do have a problem lifting that frontend off the ground --- However, any Fjord that's built with a balanced body can EASILY CANTER. We have no problems cantering any of our horses. All can do it with little effort. Most of our horses have beautiful canters. Kind Regards, Carol Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II, Ltd. Phone: 902-386-2304 Fax: 902-386-2149 URL: www.beaverdamfarm.com E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Raised by the Sea in Health and Tranquility Visit our NEW Riding Vacation page on our website today! http://www.beaverdamfarm.com/pages/riding-vacation/index.html
Re: Cantering and Balance
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interesting, Joe is much more willing to gallop than canter, either with or without a rider. I am less than enthusiastic about being on my mighty, thundering, galloping steed!! Kate *** After about a month she learned to gallop and then to canter.
Re: Cantering and Balance
This message is from: Sarah Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Before addressing the topic at hand allow me to introduce myself. I'm Sarah and I am a mature rider having competed in various (mostly English) disciplines over the last 40 years, settling in on mostly dressage. (I have competed through 4th level - so my commetns will be dressage centric- but basic dressage is just good solid training.) I have 2 Fjords and another expected in March. Fortunately nobody ever told me that Fjords don't canter before I bought my first one. She canters just fine. Many young horses have an unbalanced canter and if you don't (or haven't) cantered much the canter won't be as balanced as the trot. Two things that I find help get a canter balanced are longe line work in side reins, and exercises which free up the shoulder (turn on the haunches(at the walk), shoulder fore and shoulder in (at the trot). Especially if your horse has powerful shoulders, as most Fjords do, you need to control them in order to make your horse straight. If you have open country where you are safe and comfortable hand galloping that can help, also. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joe has not cantered much in his 8 years. But at our Fjord Fest in June, I saw that he can canter quite well and pick up the correct lead. So I've been working on it a bit more (and discovered he likes to canter best when the lead trail horse disappears around the corner and he needs to catch up). But the gait seems so rough and choppy, especially when compared to his nice smooth trot. Gail mentioned that her Gunthar is unbalanced at the canter and it frightens him, so I am thinking part of our problem is that he may not have good balance when cantering with a rider. How do I go about developing this skill with him? He is quite reluctant to even pick up the canter in the ring, so I have to work pretty hard to move him into the canter at all - and I'm pretty sure the answer is improving his balance is just more cantering! Will working more at the trot help him become more comfortable at the canter? Kate and Joe (basically, the best pony ever) Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Re: Cantering and Balance
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jerry Friz asked me to forward this to the list as his messages are blocked because of a word from his isp. From: jerrell friz Subject: dragging feet, cantering unbalance, COLLECTION Awhile back there were several posts about Fjords dragging their hind feet. I noticed that most folks think this problem can be fixed by having the furrier change the hoof angles. This might seem to help, put I doubt it this will fix the problem.. What will happen is the horse will has some pain , and, yes will put more effort into lifting the hoof. After a few days, the horse will get used to the new angle, and of course it will grow back to where it should be. And, the problem will return.There ,could be other reasons for this problem. However, if the horse is healthy, the problem just might be, not enough condition, or strength to lift the feet. All horses tend to do just the minimum required. Horses that live in a hilly area, say several acres, and run up and down the hills, probably won't be dragging their feet. Cantering/loping, very common problem. Horses, that can't collect will have trouble with the canter/lope I start my horses with collection, before doing any lateral work. It is all done on the ground. Because the way Fjords are built,[confirmation] they have a very hard time of really collecting. But, a whole lot can be done with them. It takes awhile, there are no shortcuts. After about 3 weeks you can really see the difference, no more dragging feet, in fact the real proof is in going over ground cavallettis clean. They seem to grow more withers. Their stance is more square, with the feet apart. Back, and stomach muscles showing good development. Able to do nice balanced slow gaits. Starting on the correct lead for loping, or canter. After getting the collection, and the bending at the poll, it is very easy to do the lateral work. First thing you will notice is the complete bending,[lateral] no more blocked shoulders. This can be done either on the ground, or under saddle. I do both, ground driving, and under saddle. Other benefits are, the saddle won't be slipping, because your reining will be lighter. You won't need a different bit, or a bitless bridle. With collection, the shoulders will be out of the way. Lateral bending will become very easy, forget about counterbending. Lighter leg pressure required... Balance will be easy for you and the horse. However, on the down side, be sure to use splint boots as the front feet will be moving more, and splints might happen. If any one wants more information on starting collection, feel free to contact me by email, or phone 530-347-1900. Regards, Jerry Friz, Anderson, CA.
cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know not everyone can do this. But my Fjord would not/could not canter when she first got here. She would trot her heart out but not be able to keep up with the other horses when they were running and playing. After about a month she learned to gallop and then to canter. The horses get to go into the 10 acre field/woods to play and run. Watching her gallop and canter towards me is a very impressive sight to say the least!! This has helped her learn how to canter, and sure made it easier for me. Shari
Re: Cantering and Balance
This message is from: jgayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have noticed Fjords canter quite well in the field with the herd or alone. Isn't part of the problem their often heavy fronts? The more athletic ones seem better at it. I had a little fellow that even the trainer would try and try and if he did get into a canter it was awkward and he fell more than once. It seems more likely a problem on both sides, the rider's weight and balance and the horses balance??? Jean Gayle Author 'The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 to 1949 Send: $20 to Three Horse's Press 7403 Blaine Rd Aberdeen, WA 98520
Re: Cantering and Balance
This message is from: bolinsj [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our Kilar canters really well and balanced while put to, but when I ride he is heavy on the forehand and ackward. I think he is used to balancing himself and has trouble adjusting to a rider who canters rarely. He is quite heavy on the forehand if not 'asked' to collect and use his rear. Like many Fjords I have seen. Martie in MD jgayle wrote: This message is from: jgayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have noticed Fjords canter quite well in the field with the herd or alone. Isn't part of the problem their often heavy fronts? The more athletic ones seem better at it. I had a little fellow that even the trainer would try and try and if he did get into a canter it was awkward and he fell more than once. It seems more likely a problem on both sides, the rider's weight and balance and the horses balance??? Jean Gayle
Cantering and Balance
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joe has not cantered much in his 8 years. But at our Fjord Fest in June, I saw that he can canter quite well and pick up the correct lead. So I've been working on it a bit more (and discovered he likes to canter best when the lead trail horse disappears around the corner and he needs to catch up). But the gait seems so rough and choppy, especially when compared to his nice smooth trot. Gail mentioned that her Gunthar is unbalanced at the canter and it frightens him, so I am thinking part of our problem is that he may not have good balance when cantering with a rider. How do I go about developing this skill with him? He is quite reluctant to even pick up the canter in the ring, so I have to work pretty hard to move him into the canter at all - and I'm pretty sure the answer is improving his balance is just more cantering! Will working more at the trot help him become more comfortable at the canter? Kate and Joe (basically, the best pony ever)
RE: Cantering and Balance
This message is from: Linda Lottie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Katie.we took our mare, Lena, to a quarterhorse trainer. She was there two months and the main goal was to have her canter nice and balanced for the Horse Expomy daughter was riding her hunt seat. Lena is the first and only fjord the long time QH trainer has worked with. We had another horse there in training as well.a QH, so, working with Lena was a special favor for us. After a few weeks we went to see how things were going. My daughter got on her and the trainer was standing next to me...he said; Well, it sure looks better than it feels. She actually is doing a nice job. And, she did look wonderful and preformed beautifully at the expo.. So, maybe your fjord is looking better at the canter than it feels.. LJBL in Wi Linda Baker Lottie From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Cantering and Balance Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:30:43 EDT This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joe has not cantered much in his 8 years. But at our Fjord Fest in June, I saw that he can canter quite well and pick up the correct lead. So I've been working on it a bit more (and discovered he likes to canter best when the lead trail horse disappears around the corner and he needs to catch up). But the gait seems so rough and choppy, especially when compared to his nice smooth trot. Gail mentioned that her Gunthar is unbalanced at the canter and it frightens him, so I am thinking part of our problem is that he may not have good balance when cantering with a rider. How do I go about developing this skill with him? He is quite reluctant to even pick up the canter in the ring, so I have to work pretty hard to move him into the canter at all - and I'm pretty sure the answer is improving his balance is just more cantering! Will working more at the trot help him become more comfortable at the canter? Kate and Joe (basically, the best pony ever)
Re: Cantering and Balance
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have been reading a lot about timing of the aids and balancing your horse. Some of the exercises such as shoulder in, leg yielding, and other lateral work helps the horse to be able to canter. I think one of the more expert Fjord folks on the list could explain it better than I can, tho. There are several good articles on the Equine Studies Institute website, Knowledge Base, especially the one titled Lessons from Woody might help. http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge_base/kb_intro.html Also I have just been watching a series of DVD's from Wendy Murdoch http://shop.murdochmethod.com/ The Ride Like a Natural DVD series. Rather than trotting faster and faster rushing your horse into a canter (Which never works for me) you need to time you aids as certain feet are planted or lifting, etc. Otherwise the horse can't do it. Maybe Lori Albrough, Pat Holland, Patti Jo, or Karen McCarthy can explain better. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, who spends most of her time riding at a walk doing hill work! How do I go about developing this skill with him? He is quite reluctant to even pick up the canter in the ring, so I have to work pretty hard to move him into the canter at all - and I'm pretty sure the answer is improving his balance is just more cantering! Will working more at the trot help him become more comfortable at the canter? Kate and Joe (basically, the best pony ever)
Re: Cantering and Balance
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here is an article by Wendy Murdoch suggesting you canter on the ground WITHOUT your horse to learn how your body should move! Looks like fun, but I can't do it with my bad knee.. http://shop.murdochmethod.com/Articles/canteringcanbe.php Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska
Re: Cantering and Balance
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I knew a Fjord that really could not canter; his back was fairly long and cantering was difficult and likely very uncomfortable for him. Even with consistent work on the lunge to help him learn to balance and coordinate his legs, the best canter he could get was still pretty strung-out. My gelding Torden was initially reluctant to canter under saddle, but it was due to him not understanding what I wanted. All it took was riding with a driving whip that I could really get behind him for encouragement and we were set (though, I'm sure we looked funny). Jamie In the Mountains SW of Denver, CO
Lori - Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Patti Jo. And sorry everyone if my cantering message came across as a rant. It came across with a lot of vehemence that I didn't intend. I think I need to stay away from the computer on the day before my period, those hormones can turn into weapons! It wasn't taken here as a rant at all!!! It was a very well thought out, timely email. There ARE several roads to Rome, as you say. I was surprised when I found out that Juniper had not been cantered at all when I bought her, and didn't even know what it was! We had fun teaching her. :) And I think she even has fun learning. Pamela Northern Holiday Horses Welcome Polaris
Re: cantering
This message is from: jerrell friz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lori, for are absolutely right, thanks for the post!! Regards, Jerry Friz, Anderson, Ca. every farm needs a team
Re: cantering
This message is from: Lori Albrough [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: Dave and Patti Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] AMEN LORI A.!! Thanks Patti Jo. And sorry everyone if my cantering message came across as a rant. It came across with a lot of vehemence that I didn't intend. I think I need to stay away from the computer on the day before my period, those hormones can turn into weapons! I truly believe there are a lot of ways to get to Rome, and I don't think my way is the only way. I think starting horses at different ages is just fine, and progressing at different speeds is just fine too. I just get frustrated to see so many fjordhorses whose training has gone down blind alleys. Probably this pheonomenon happens in all breeds, but with the distinctive appearance of the fjord horse, when people see one who can't canter, won't canter, is pushy, is stubborn, etc, that sticks in their head and I think that is the source of the prejudicial comments that the original poster encountered. Lori
cantering
This message is from: Dave and Patti Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] AMEN LORI A.!! Patti Jo Walter www.franciscreekfjords.com
cantering youngsters
This message is from: Karen McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...I am also very aware of their balance and do my best to keep my body balance aligned with theirs. It's also important to keep your weight more over their hindquarters, as any tripping they might do can end up with the horse doing a somersault in the blink of an eye... Beth Oh yeah Beth! somersaults are one of the reasons I tend to be kinda conservative! :-] And yes, the riders body (incorrect) position is one if the biggest causes for the frustrations of trying to get a canter and a correct lead. Pushing and rushing a horse that is not truly forward,leaning forward (trying to help the horse into the canter), and looking over the shoulder to see if the correct lead was taken will all contribute to problems trying to achieve a canter. If you are able to ride out with a buddy on a more experienced horse, ask them to go up into a canter if and when the time is right, and ask your inexperienced horse as well. Try to take atvantage of the see monkey/do monkey dynamic. If you can stay 'in the middle', and support maintain forward momentum, you shall succeed. Enjoy the ride, Karen PS: be prepared for a buck now and then, and don't freak out, but do keep their head from getting to low and keep asking for forward... _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
cantering/tripping
This message is from: Teressa Kandianis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks for all the feedback. What you're telling me is what I remembered from the discussion last winter. The training was necessary - Mark and I were reading books and getting advice and assistance once in awhile but you don't know how impossible it is to get beyond simple steps without alot of fumbling around. We thought it wasn't good for him or for us so started seriously checking out trainers in our immediate vicinity so that we could be as involved as possible. I supplied him with the information I had on fjords, maturity, bone development, conformation etc that I had - mostly postings from the list. He brought up the manner in which he's adapting what he does with quarter horses or thoroughbreds vs how he is bringing Merit along. He seems quite charmed by Merit's look and manner and is helping Mark and I with our hands and legs. He'll just be there for another couple of weeks and then will come home. The work with Merit at the trainer's is also helping us work more effectively with Nina - who is just 17 months now. And Merit isn't being worked in a round pen but in a big covered arena with a nice surface. The steering was our biggest worry as do it yourselfers. I tried a bitting harness, we tried a lot of stuff from books but it just frustrated us and Merit. Now when we get him home we can get to work with driving again. A reining board must help people who know something about rein pressure and so on, but it didn't do much for us. The trainer, Roger, is very gentle and quiet, and has a relationship with our horse. We discussed the flight response and how that impells young horses of different breeds in different ways and how different the weegies are in that respect. I have confidence in him that he's not pushing Merit. Merit is still tripping a little - at the walk or trot - but much less than at first. We think its just youth and getting used to his own big body as well as one on top of him - it would probably be difficult to know at this stage if and when he'll not trip again at all. And also, correct me if I've misunderstood, his reluctance to lope now is normal and patience and not pushing will result in a fjord who lopes as well as trots. Anyway, longwinded as usual, thanks to all the posts on this subject both last year and now, from sunny, beautiful Ferndale, WA, Teressa
Re: cantering
This message is from: Misty Meadows B B [EMAIL PROTECTED] We stay off our young horses here until they are at least 3 and a half. Surprisingly, we have found that we have not lost any time at all if we stay completely off them until four. Then, they are do ring work with a light rider. Their training progresses very quickly and canter is not a big deal at all because they have the neuromuscular coordination and balance required. If we do ride a 3 and a half year old, they accompany the older horses along on trail rides up and down fairly rough territory and learn to fully use themselves in a coordinated fashion with little interference or help from our 11 year old. The few that trip stopped tripping when they learned to use themselves in all balance situations on trails. Our trainer will have absolutely nothing to do with anyone riding a three year old fjord - rather he has us do tons of ground work, lots of fun stuff in the round pen to get eyes equal, get them moving lightly away to a fingertip etc and get them absolutely respecting our space. Growing up as family friends and being mentored for years by Ray Hunt and Tom Dorrance, he is a wonderful horseman who has trained horses all his life and I'm convinced he's right about letting babies grow up as babies. In Perfect Horse, May 98, John Lyons writes about when Growth Plates close and how riding a horse too early in his life risks his future by setting him up for arthritic problems later in life.. He says While exercise in beneficial to growing horses resulting in stronger bones and joints, it must be done in moderation because: - the bones are not as structurally strong -the layers of cartilage in the joints are not as think or strong and can be crushed or deformed -there are many more blood vessels in the growing sections of bone in a young horse, and excessive pressure can shut these down or cause inflammation, making the bone begin to grow unevenly. The growth plates in the radius close at 15 to 18 months, the upper ulna closes at about 3.5 years, and one of the growth plates of the humerous closes at 3.5 years. If potential damage to the legs is not enough to dissuade you from waiting to start that young horse, consider that the bones of his spine are not completely formed/fused until the age of four or five. So, although our beloved fjords are easier to work with as young horses and thus there is the temptation to work them earlier, I believe that we do them a disservice that will haunt them years later in their future. Cathy Koshman Misty Meadows Fjords, Victoria, BC
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jean here we are enjoying finally our summer and there you are wishing for more snow! Narrow your wishes a bit so we don't get that white stuff down here for awhile. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey, if ya gotta have winter you might as well have snow and lots of it! We NEED the snow for insulation too, so we don't end up with frost going down 7-8 feet deep like last year and the year before with all the septic and well freeze-ups! There are National and International ski teams training here, just thrilled with this new snow. I like it because the fjords are getting clean and are happy too! Jean in bright sunny snow covered Fairbanks, Alaska. 28 degrees Jean here we are enjoying finally our summer and there you are wishing for more snow! Narrow your wishes a bit so we don't get that white stuff down here for awhile. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Teressa I am behind on the list missiles but I wonder how ready your boy is for cantering esp if he has someone on his back. At that age they are not balanced and are like an awkward teenager which is what they are. You can break his back down if you are not careful. Large horses are not able to carry a rider at the canter until they gain their balance. You will also notice that your horse will have a growth spurt during this training and all should be stopped when this happens. Sound the alarm. Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Cantering
This message is from: Cynthia_Madden/OAA/UNO/[EMAIL PROTECTED] I have to agree with those who think two years of age is too young to be cantering. Tank had a very hard time learning to canter and was not all comfortable doing it until a couple of years ago (he is now 7). Finding his balance in a canter seemed to be his biggest problem. I did finally get him to canter while driving. Teaching a horse to canter in a cart is good exercise and they learn not to panic in that gait when being driven. The lack of weight on their back gets allows them to get use to the gait and find their balance. He learned he could do it and then was more comfortable trying it under saddle. It was also easier for him to do in a straight away like on the road. He still doesn't like to canter much in an arena and have to make those turns but he is improving. I also agree with Susan that you have to be careful not to lean forward in the saddle. Fjords are so happy to be heavy on the forehand and this sure doesn't help their balance problem. Cynthia Madden Omaha, Nebraska USA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Teressa Kandianis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: Teressa Kandianis [EMAIL PROTECTED] My big guy, 2 yo Merit, is now at the trainer's barn. He is doing quite well at the walk and trot. The trainer told me he was prone to tripping We sent our Fjords to the trainer's as three-year-olds. They were still not really mature enough for it we found. They did well at the walk, trot, and while learning maneuvers. However, cantering was not their best suit. The bigger horse - 14.3 at the time - was very long and gangly at the time and had a terrible time with tripping over his feet. He actually went down with the trainer while transitioning from canter to trot. Keeping his toes trimmed short and rolled helped, but he needed to be trimmed every 3 or 4 weeks to keep him from tripping. Add to that the fact that he had not yet added any width in front(between his front legs) and we had a real tripping/falling problem. He could knock one leg out from under himself when transitioning. The smaller Fjord - around 14 hands - had a very short(choppy) trot and refused to canter. The trainer just tailored his program - he usually trains Quarters and Paints - to our Fjords. They learned a lot and were not pushed too hard. This year they are four-year-olds. What a change!! This past spring we took them both back for a two-week refresher course. Both had grown AND filled out. The bigger guy now has a wonderful canter - can collect himself very well, no stumbling. He also is more athletic because of his longer, leaner build. He can do rollbacks and turns and sliding stops about as well as the same size QH at beginning training. The smaller horse still has a short trot - but we are working on lengthening his stride. He still does not like to canter, but can do it quite well if you ask him. We have ridden them on trails and worked on training exercises in the round pen this summer and are very satisfied with both of them. They still trip occasionally when travelling downhill in rough country, but I assume that will improve with age and experience. Fjords really DO need to have time to grow up and develop the muscle to handle their large-boned frames. I would consider a two-year-old too young for a trainer to do much with, especially if the Fjord is unusually tall or the trainer is a large person. Remember, these guys are still babies as two-year-olds and their bodies are not ready for a lot of stress. Working in a round pen is very stressful on tendons in the legs and especially on the fetlock joints. In our experience, the bigger/taller Fjords take longer to learn to handle themselves than the more compact ones - but both can be equally clumsy as youngsters, due to their lack of mental and physical maturity. Mary = Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Debby Stai [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whats all this about Fjords tripping? I've just gotten Amber haven't been able to do anything with her because of the bum leg, but now yall have got me concerned. She doesn't seem to be built downhill. Is it their relaxed manner, maybe just naturally lazy at picking up their feet. I'm definitely going to lunge her when I can just to see how trippy she is. And I'll definitely sit up and back a little at all of the gaits. My trainer says lean back until you feel like you're leaning too far back, then you're perfect! Course, on a youngster, I guess you'd want to be a little lighter on their back until they've gotten stronger. Let me know more about this tripping. Thanks. Debby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My horse had a lot of trouble learning to canter while being ridden. This year she is 6 and more balanced. A friend of mine gave me a helpful hint on getting the canter. In order to circle to the left, the outside leg is back, the inside (left) leg is at the girth,giving the cue (bump). The extra help is given by a tap with the whip on the inside shoulder. This was a relevation for us. Now we can do the canter on both leads. You also have to make sure you are not leaning forward at all. Even lean back slightly. I realize this is probably not following some dressage rules or whatever, so don't criticize me too much. All I know is that it worked for us. She is also a tripper, by the way Suzan
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would like to read this article; can you tell me where I can find it? Thank you, Sarah Vogeley New Forest Farm Charlottesville, Virginia -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Cantering Date: Wed, Oct 20, 1999, 8:36 AM I recently read that the plates in a horse's spine are not fully developed (or closed) until almost 6 year's of age, so getting on their backs at 2 yrs. doesn't seem like a sound idea.
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Adding to what has said about waiting to ride horses...I recently read that the plates in a horse's spine are not fully developed (or closed) until almost 6 year's of age, so getting on their backs at 2 yrs. doesn't seem like a sound idea.
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] A two year old, in my opinion, is not really mature enough to be balanced or coordinated, might still be somewhat butt high. Since Fjords don't really mature fully until they are 6 or 7, seems that it might be wise to work them very lightly at two and not expect too much at that age. If the trainer is used to starting quarter horses at 2, he may be asking too much. (I personally don't think even a Quarter horse should be ridden at 2, but at least they mature a little earlier than Fjords) Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska with big snowflakes floating down: More snow, I want More snow! At 10:53 AM 10/19/1999 -0700, you wrote: This message is from: Teressa Kandianis [EMAIL PROTECTED] My big guy, 2 yo Merit, is now at the trainer's barn. He is doing quite well at the walk and trot. The trainer told me he was prone to tripping which I recalled much discussion went on here on the list. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My horse had a lot of trouble learning to canter while being ridden. This year she is 6 and more balanced. A friend of mine gave me a helpful hint on getting the canter. In order to circle to the left, the outside leg is back, the inside (left) leg is at the girth,giving the cue (bump). The extra help is given by a tap with the whip on the inside shoulder. This was a relevation for us. Now we can do the canter on both leads. You also have to make sure you are not leaning forward at all. Even lean back slightly. I realize this is probably not following some dressage rules or whatever, so don't criticize me too much. All I know is that it worked for us. She is also a tripper, by the way Suzan
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think tripping at the trot and difficulty cantering go hand in hand with some Fjords. I attribute it to conformation issues, and the type of mover you have, although I am sure some would argue that point. I think you have to have someone knowledgeable evaluate your horse as a riding prospect and if you decide to use him that way, be prepared for extra work in keeping him balanced and off his forehand as he becomes trained. One of my Fjords is like this and it can get better, but it is always an issue and he has had some bad trips that real jerk the rider's neck, so be careful! Elaine Olsen
Cantering
This message is from: Teressa Kandianis [EMAIL PROTECTED] My big guy, 2 yo Merit, is now at the trainer's barn. He is doing quite well at the walk and trot. The trainer told me he was prone to tripping which I recalled much discussion went on here on the list. Fortunately, I had printed those topics and can give him the info other listers had about feet trimming, tripping and youngsters and tripping. He is also reluctant to canter - I do recall quite a discussion about age related training with these guys and how patience brings great rewards but for some reason, didn't print those missives. What is the deal with two year olds and cantering? He also has a choppy trot - the trainer characterizes it as pony like. I also remember threads discussing this but also don't have the postings printed. Thanks for feedback. Teressa Kandianis from sunny, cool Ferndale, WA.
Re: cantering, and cantering, and cantering
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey Brigid, great cantering. I gave up the big C at one time, deciding I was too old. Actually chicken. Then a great instructor started coming here to give lessons so when I rode for her I explained that I no longer do the canter! She did have a certain look on her face when I said it. So we worked at leg yields and getting my boy into correct balance and then as we trotted in admirable fashion she said and now CANTOR Canter? Oh no thought I. CANTOR was repeated and canter we did. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
cantering, and cantering, and cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi All- Well, yesterday I took Rafael for a nice walk/trot ride doing all our usual manouvers like the figure-Z (heavily muscled Rafael's version of figure-8), going over the obstacles, etc. He was moving so well with me, I thought, This is the day! So I asked for the canter several times, but knowing I wasn't ready, he wouldn't do it. All I got was a really fast trot. So I took the reins in one hand, grabbed the horn with the other, took a deep breath, and away we went! We cantered around the arena twice, what a feeling! Can't wait to do it again (didn't today because I rode bareback, not that skilled yet : ). Brigid
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 7/15/99 16:20:45 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then I started riding my Trakehner, and discovered thatPferd had a horrible canter. I would wager, that the best of riderswould have problems staying balanced with his canter. Since he was the first horse I had really ridden, I've had not a fear really, but a hesitation to canter. Juniper didn't know how, now she does, but it's a little jarring. Nikki, she was so heavy, fat and pregnant when we bought her, then monsoons for 9 months. Last month I didn't even think about it. Got on her, rode her and asked for a canter. First time she didn't believe me (cause the most I'd do is trot). So she trotted real fast. When I brought her back down and asked again, she knew I really wanted a canter and gave me a wonderful, smooth canter. Still haven't cantered the quarter horse, as she's too unpredictable in the best of circumstances, and will shake her whole body, like a dog, sometimes under saddle at a canter, if you can imagine that! Still, there is one horse I would love to own. He's a mottled appaloosa named Jack Frost. He can jump 5 feet, pack special needs kids, do just about anything. And he's got the most musical canter I've ever ridden. Really. It's like dancing riding him. If I could only talk my old trainer into selling him.sigh Pamela
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kari-- Wednesday, July 14, 1999, you wrote: I would appreciate knowing if any riders on this list have ever conquered specific mental blocks about particular riding tassks. Here's another thing to think about with cantering. I learned to really ride on my Morgan, (Thank you I'm a driving horse not a saddle horse) Pferd. One thing that may have contributed to my tension with cantering was that he would occasionally bolt and run away, totally out of control, however I never fell off. Anyway, I was very tense, to the point of outright fear when trying to canter on him. Then I started riding my Trakehner, and discovered that Pferd had a horrible canter. I would wager, that the best of riders would have problems staying balanced with his canter. Since he was the first horse I had really ridden, I didn't know, I thought it was totally my inability to ride at a canter. With Skipper, the Trakehner, I learned to love to canter. I still don't know how many total different canter gaits she has, every time I asked her for more she'd just shift gears and go faster, but always smooth as glass. So think about whether you have trouble riding one horse or all at a canter. -- Steve McIlree Cynthia Madden -- Pferd, Keyah, Skipper, Tank -- Omaha, Nebraska, USA If I be once on horse-back, I alight very unwillingly; for it is the seat I like best. --Michel Eyquem de Montaigne(1533-1592)
Re: cantering
This message is from: B. Hendricks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Speaking of Halingers, do they have a web site? I guess I could go to search... Bonnie Please visit my web sites: Commissioned Horse Portraits, Oil Paintings, Prints, Books http://www.hendricksgallery.com and http://members.xoom.com/BHendricks/Gallery1.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 2:49 AM Subject: cantering This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Had an interesting comment at 4-H today. A woman that raises halflingers thinks it may be hard due to heavy front ends since fjords were bred for draft work. Seemed to think one has to get them light on the front end before asking them to canter. Since I mostly farm log with mine they spend more time in harness then under saddle. To train young one's I put them on a cart with an older horse. I discourage cantering in harness so the transition might be hard under saddle. Regarding trained geldings or trained horses in general I find people reluctant to pay for a trained horse. As those of you that do your own training know it takes time to do it right. Joel Harman ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kari Ann, Not sure I understand your question?? Are you reluctant to canter on a horse or do you mean you don't think your Fjord can canter, Are you referring to a fear and overcoming it? If that's the case, I can tell you of my past fear of riding bareback. I used to ride bareback all the time as a kid but now that I'm middle age with back problems, I wanted no part of it. When I watched a Pat Parelli seminar at our Expo, he said everyone should ride their horse bareback at least 3 hours a week to truly be in touch with their horse. That statement haunted me for a few weeks until one night my daughter, 12, was riding her Quarter horse in the round pen bareback and I was riding at an adventurous walk with her. I had been thinking about what Pat had said ever since and my daughter started to encourage me to trot, then canter. The trot came pretty easy but the canter was far off in my mind! Then, I kept envisioning myself on my childhood horse, Big Red, loping through the woods bareback and jumping logs! Of course, you do these nutty things when you're young and your mom isn't around to tell you not to -- and of course, all with no helmet. I kept thinking -- here I am in a round pen, on a horse I've ridden for 4 years who is totally dependable, in familiar surroundings, with a helmet on my head. What's the worse that could happen?! (Not to mention that my daughter can't figure out why I can't do such a easy thing). I mustered the courage to kiss and off she went in her rocking horse gait! I hadn't felt so excited about such a small accomplishment in years. I had forgotten how easy it was. Only the few seconds from the walk to the canter was I feeling a little reluctant. Now, I ride Spicy bareback at least twice a week in the round pen. No, I would never venture out on the trails that way. There are too many variables there, but I did get brave and enter a bareback class at the next show -- pretty funny, me with all those teenagers! It's now one of my best classes. Spicy seems to love the ease of moving without being encumbered by a saddle -- and -- Pat Parelli was right, you do get in touch with your horse better that way. She moves off my leg like a dream. I don't know if this is what you were looking for but your question made me think of this. You feel on top of the world when a fear is finally put to rest! Susan in steamy hot Minnesota
cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Had an interesting comment at 4-H today. A woman that raises halflingers thinks it may be hard due to heavy front ends since fjords were bred for draft work. Seemed to think one has to get them light on the front end before asking them to canter. Since I mostly farm log with mine they spend more time in harness then under saddle. To train young one's I put them on a cart with an older horse. I discourage cantering in harness so the transition might be hard under saddle. Regarding trained geldings or trained horses in general I find people reluctant to pay for a trained horse. As those of you that do your own training know it takes time to do it right. Joel Harman ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 7/13/99 10:57:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am so tired of my mental block about cantering. Please, let me know what works for you as long as it is not illegal, immoral or fattening. LOL! I have cantered very little, fun but exilarating : ) My problem is being stiff. The martial arts has helped immensely with my fitness, body image, etc. so I'm sure when I get back into serious riding my canters won't be quite so amusing! I'm not a fearful person, so don't really have blocks about doing things. It just take me while to loosen up and do them PROPERLY. Brigid
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good question and brought about partially by the Fjord's hesitancy to take the canter. My boy could do second and third level work but we always struggled with the right departure. We both anticipated, he moving to a running trot and me clamping legs, throwing the bit away and leaning forward. It got so bad I had to change the sequence of walk, trot, canter to, canter then walk and trot. I still stiffened though and gave it away most times. But he did do better. My trainer and he would fight to a standoff until he willingly departed to the right. But it was hard to watch and just tensed him up even more when he saw her coming. A youngster rode him, loose rein, asked for the departure and got it without a problem. So..is it the horse or the rider? Both. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle -Original Message- From: Kari Ann Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, July 13, 1999 10:56 PM Subject: Cantering This message is from: Kari Ann Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am so tired of my mental block about cantering. Many thanks, Kari Ann -- Please access my web site at http://pwp.value.net/penomee/penomee.html for my artistic, academic and performing resumés, and... a great low-fat lasagna recipe!
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Starfire Farm, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Kari Ann, I have been working with a student who has a mental block about cantering her horse after suffering a bad fall. In her situation, she desperately wants to canter, but her body says, nononononono! So she hangs on her horses mouth every time she askes him to canter. His response is to kick up, because she is givng him conflicting aids, and he gets frustrated. This woman has been riding for many years, and has good balance on a horse. What I have done with her in the past, is put her on my most reliable lesson horse, on a lunge line, and worked walk-trot, trot-canter transitions. She has no problems cantering my lesson horse, but because of her history with her horse, she freezes at the moment of asking for the canter. I have used an approach and retreat method with her, getting just to the point of cantering, then having her balance out the trot. I'm helping her try to identify where she gets tense in her body when she even thinks about asking for the canter (which, right now, is just about everywhere!) Now I am working with her in a round pen, where she doesn't have to concentrate on steering the horse, as well as asking for the canter transition. We are not there, yet. She has had a couple (only a couple) of good canter transitions during the lesson. It happens when everything is correct, and she is not tense. So far, she has been so surprised that she doesn't remember what her body was doing when the canter transition occurred. I should mention that this horse canters easily when I school him, almost push button, with no problems. We'll get there, but because of her innate fear, it has to come gradually. What I would recommend is that you have a skilled trainer give you lunge lessons on a solid, reliable horse that knows what he is doing on a lunge. This should be someone who can identify places where your body tenses up as you're riding, to help you work towards learning how to keep those areas relaxed. Work your way up to the canter transitions. If you get the transition, great. If you don't, it's just another opportunity to try again. Make sure that when you get on your own horse, you use clear aids that the horse already understands. If he hasn't yet learned clear aids, someone has to teach him (like your trainer.) The aids I teach come in this order; outside leg back (a little behind the girth), stretch up in your upper body, give the inside rein towards the horses' mouth, then ask for the canter by placing you inside leg on at the girth. When my students give the aids in that order, the horse canters. If the student doesn't give the aids in that order, the horse simply trots faster! You could also do some mental imaging. Watch some video of good riders in the canter. Mentally place yourself in their saddle, and imagine a successful ride. There are good instructional videos out there, like Mary Wanless (The Natural Rider) which break down what your body should be doing in a step by step format. Above all, try not to get frustrated! Look at every new try as another opportunity to learn it better. It will pay off in the end. Good luck! Beth Starfire Farm, in sweltering Colorado.
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 7/14/99 1:58:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would appreciate knowing if any riders on this list have ever conquered specific mental blocks about particular riding tassks. I am so tired of my mental block about cantering. Please, let me know what works for you as long as it is not illegal, immoral or fattening. Many thanks, Kari Ann I used to have a BIG mental block about cantering or galloping on a horse. I had one take off on me when I was a child so I still liked to ride, but I was afraid to do anything faster than a fast trot. I took the advice of a trainer and took my horse (whom I did trust) to a neighbors farm who had a ring. Two other people and I got into the ring on our horses and just slowly worked up to it. We went in a single file line and started with a trot, then we went into a canter for about half the ring, increased the time on it until we had made a couple of laps around at a canter and then did the same thing into a gallop. Now after doing this a couple of times I felt perfectly safe in the ring, but I had to really trust in the faith I had in my horse to do it outside the ring. I started with a small pasture (about 3 acres) and only did a canter for a while until I felt perfectly at ease, then I progressed. Now I don't usually have issues with it. It was hard the first time I got on a different horse though! But I just made myself do it and I was fine. You will really enjoy cantering once you get over your fear. Now I think it is the most comfortable pace, it feels like you're on a merry go round! Good luck to you, I hope the sharing of my experience helps you in some way. Lisa
Cantering
This message is from: Kari Ann Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would appreciate knowing if any riders on this list have ever conquered specific mental blocks about particular riding tassks. I am so tired of my mental block about cantering. Please, let me know what works for you as long as it is not illegal, immoral or fattening. Many thanks, Kari Ann -- Please access my web site at http://pwp.value.net/penomee/penomee.html for my artistic, academic and performing resumés, and... a great low-fat lasagna recipe!
RE: Cantering
This message is from: Werner, Kristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] I missed the first part of the conversation. But if it is a young horse, he will naturally be unbalanced. Perhaps physical limitations or pain are compounding his difficulties with the highest gear. If I were you I would of course try to have any corporeal ailments eliminated and then start anew with training - slow and sure and perhaps even with a bit-LESS sidepull. There is a western trainer here in Germany - Claus Penquitt - who operates under the adage that green/young horses should first be required to canter when they`ve mastered shoulder-in and -fore, travers etc.. He says that until they have reached that point their hindquarters are too lame and their balance too lacking - to the extent that the canter can become an allround fiasco for everybody. He says, wait and you will be rewarded - I think he is right. Of course, I read him too late. We pushed Kai and insisted he canter, whether he was comfortable with it or not - whether he flipped out or not - whether we were sort of scared ourselves or not. We thought: hey, he`s a horse, he can galopp over the fields, why can`t he galopp over the sandy arena ? But he had obvious difficulty - not with pain, but with his unbalanced body (head to the left was typical). He became frustrated with himself and with us for compelling him to do the (then and for him) impossible. This of course, lead to further problems when I rode him out alone. Only after alot of strict, strenuous and sweaty ground work as well as riding sessions with a time-hardened Amazona did Kai learn to accept the canter. But, if I had to do it all over again, I would follow Penquitt`s advice. No use pushing the horse around - that can backfire and he will always be alot stronger and quicker than you are - and potentially very dangerous - especially when they`ve lost their respect for you. If I were you I would relax (I know it`s hard) and work at the walk and the trot. Try to get him to take the bit at these stages. Until then his canter will be less than desirable, I can guarantee you that. When your pony excels on the circle at the trot, then I would accelerate, but not necessarily on the circle - that is too difficult and demands perhaps more collection than a young horse can muster at first, forcing him to drop back into the trot. The main thing is patience and working in small doses. Sure, a side-pull is a good device - I bought one here (from the Continental Saddle Company) and the good thing about it is that it is bit-less. We practice shoulder-in and forehand turns with it - the aids are much more distinct for Kai without any mouth contact whatsoever. I would never use it, though, in order to energetically pull his head around to the side ! If the horse is unbalanced, you will only throw him off more by forcing the issue. I can imagine that he would just get more upset and pull the other way - or even resort to throwing you off. Those are just my 2 cents - earned through hard experiences brought on by my impatience to get going and get my horse in gear. But it`s only 2 cents and very little for all the hard work we put into retraining him in an effort to make up for our mistakes - and haste. Kristine in Frankfurt am Main -Original Message- From: Mary Thurman [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Dienstag, 19. Januar 1999 04:26 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Cantering This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] At first it sounded a little touchy feely to me, but my friend trains a LOT of horses, and for the little bit of $$$ it costs to find/correct the problem, you save a lot of time and trouble trying to train a horse that is in pain. I must add here that we also thought it was a little touchy feely sounding at first. Until we tried it on one of our horses that was in training. He was a three-year-old with about 30 days on him. He began to have trouble picking up the canter, carried his hind legs funny and couldn't keep in the canter. When the trainer would push on the top of his croup near the spine with his fingers, the horse would drop his hindquarters or act uncomfortable. An equine chiropractor regularly works on horses for this trainer, so he checked the horse out, found the problem, corrected it - and presto, no more problems. It truly works that fast - the horse has no more pain. Although he may have sore muscles for a few days afterwards, due to having used his body wrong for a long time. We usually give them a day or so off after being worked on by a chiropractor, with just light exercise. Remember, a horse has no mental baggage concerning a chiropractor - he just knows that he hurt before and now he doesn't. It works for our horses, and really isn't all that expensive. The charge for an adjustment usually includes a return visit in a couple weeks to be sure
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] At first it sounded a little touchy feely to me, but my friend trains a LOT of horses, and for the little bit of $$$ it costs to find/correct the problem, you save a lot of time and trouble trying to train a horse that is in pain. I must add here that we also thought it was a little touchy feely sounding at first. Until we tried it on one of our horses that was in training. He was a three-year-old with about 30 days on him. He began to have trouble picking up the canter, carried his hind legs funny and couldn't keep in the canter. When the trainer would push on the top of his croup near the spine with his fingers, the horse would drop his hindquarters or act uncomfortable. An equine chiropractor regularly works on horses for this trainer, so he checked the horse out, found the problem, corrected it - and presto, no more problems. It truly works that fast - the horse has no more pain. Although he may have sore muscles for a few days afterwards, due to having used his body wrong for a long time. We usually give them a day or so off after being worked on by a chiropractor, with just light exercise. Remember, a horse has no mental baggage concerning a chiropractor - he just knows that he hurt before and now he doesn't. It works for our horses, and really isn't all that expensive. The charge for an adjustment usually includes a return visit in a couple weeks to be sure the adjustment has stayed in place. Mary, in wet, windy Washington == Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) Start probing with stiff fingers down his neck and back each side of the spine. If he fliches or drops you have a sore spot. This can also just be an unbalanced habit. Again the side puller bit works. Jean Aberdeen This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pamela, Thanks for the suggestion on the Wolf teeth, however, I just had the vet out for teeth floating and Coggins tests and he checked him for Wolf teeth and either Carol had already had them removed or he doesn't have any. Carol??? On the pain issue -- mmm, that bothers me. How do I go about finding out if he has pain and where??? Thanks from Susan in MN Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 1/17/99 21:09:12 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the pain issue -- mmm, that bothers me. How do I go about finding out if he has pain and where??? I can find out from my friend, when she signs on again who she uses. She's on the west coast, but apparently this guy is GOOD, and in demand, flies in from the east coast, apparently to check out horses. I'll get the info for you, but I think any good vet (Brian?) may know how to reach a good, reliable equine chiropractor. At first it sounded a little touchy feely to me, but my friend trains a LOT of horses, and for the little bit of $$$ it costs to find/correct the problem, you save a lot of time and trouble trying to train a horse that is in pain. It's late for me. Hope I'm making sense. I'll get back to you with the info, probably tomorrow. Pamela
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Renee, Thank-you for the advice. I will work on the circles. Susan in MN
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pamela, Thanks for the suggestion on the Wolf teeth, however, I just had the vet out for teeth floating and Coggins tests and he checked him for Wolf teeth and either Carol had already had them removed or he doesn't have any. Carol??? On the pain issue -- mmm, that bothers me. How do I go about finding out if he has pain and where??? Thanks from Susan in MN
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) Hi Susan, In my collection of horse bits I have what are called side pullers. They put more pressure on the side being out of line. They do not appear to be sharp or severe bits. Might try that. I think they are used on the tracks so if you know some one into racing they could give you more info. Jean Gayle Aberdeen where the wind is growing. This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all! I have a question for all of you. How do you help a Fjord who constantly carries his head to the left a little when trotting and cantering? When I'm driving, I am always keeping a tighter tension in the right rein to straighten him out and same with riding him at the canter. Let's hear from all you experts then I'll go try out your suggestion. Thanks. Susan from MN Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline
Re: Cantering
This message is from: Wild Flower Fjord Farm [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all! I have a question for all of you. How do you help a Fjord who constantly carries his head to the left a little when trotting and cantering? When I'm driving, I am always keeping a tighter tension in the right rein to straighten him out and same with riding him at the canter. Let's hear from all you experts then I'll go try out your suggestion. Thanks. Susan from MN Dear Susan, The reason your horse is probably carrying his head to the left is because he is probably unbalanced. Try doing gradual circles to the right which will encourage the bend to the right. He will eventually get balanced and the little bend should straiten out! Good Luck! Renee Lafleur Wild Flower Fjord Farm
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 1/16/99 8:10:34 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How do you help a Fjord who constantly carries his head to the left a little when trotting and cantering? In my other email group we've talked about this a lot. Check for pain. Make sure there are no wolf teeth bothering him, and that he doesn't have points on his teeth. Then check the rest of the body. One lady on the west coast knows of a great horse chiro who flies in from I don't remember where. She trains A LOT of horses (has a lovely Connemara stallion) and a lot of riders. She finds most difficult horses or horses who carry themselves a bit off, are suffering from some sort of pain. When the pain is lifted, things return to normal. Pamela
Re: Cantering
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all! I have a question for all of you. How do you help a Fjord who constantly carries his head to the left a little when trotting and cantering? When I'm driving, I am always keeping a tighter tension in the right rein to straighten him out and same with riding him at the canter. Let's hear from all you experts then I'll go try out your suggestion. Thanks. Susan from MN
Re: thanks for all the info on cantering and strengthening
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have two videos of Wez provided by Anne herself. If you call or e-mail Anne Appleby she would probably send you a video of some of his performances. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, where it is -30 and sunny and I'm watching the horses from my window as they run around and buck and play. At 12:43 PM 12/17/98 -0800, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) I live close to Ann and Wez and would be glad to go and video him if any one wants that. ** Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: thanks for all the info on cantering and strengthening
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) I live close to Ann and Wez and would be glad to go and video him if any one wants that. Only cost would be for duplicating the video or if someone else can do it, fine. Or if it just needs to be passed along. I know Wez and he is one lovely and sweet horse. So is Ann a lovely and sweet person. Nice combo. Jean Gayle This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To everyone who responded to my request - many thanks. I printed everything out and will start to do cross training. Now that hunting season is over, we can start getting out again and do hill work. I have seen some photos of Wez, would love to see him in person! Wonder if there are any tapes of him? Ursula do you put your cavaletti on the ground or raise them? I think our right lead canter is getting better - we don't seem to be careening around as much. But I sometimes dream of sending him off to Canter Camp and let someone else with better balance careen around on him. Beth, I really appreciate your input. We have worked in the square pattern this week- much easier said then done for us! We have a hard time staying in that outside rein especially going to the right - and in there lies our problem! Julie - I have never heard of EPSM, but will look into it - thanks all for the help and happy holidays - Nancy and Sonnie.. Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline
thanks for all the info on cantering and strengthening
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To everyone who responded to my request - many thanks. I printed everything out and will start to do cross training. Now that hunting season is over, we can start getting out again and do hill work. I have seen some photos of Wez, would love to see him in person! Wonder if there are any tapes of him? Ursula do you put your cavaletti on the ground or raise them? I think our right lead canter is getting better - we don't seem to be careening around as much. But I sometimes dream of sending him off to Canter Camp and let someone else with better balance careen around on him. Beth, I really appreciate your input. We have worked in the square pattern this week- much easier said then done for us! We have a hard time staying in that outside rein especially going to the right - and in there lies our problem! Julie - I have never heard of EPSM, but will look into it - thanks all for the help and happy holidays - Nancy and Sonnie..
Re: Ortho-flex saddles, Cantering
This list is great; it seems to address all the topics that really relate to Fjords! I have 3 ortho-flex saddles at the moment, and have purchased 5 all together. Started with one of their first models, which I sold to friends with fjords. I first tried a Sharon Saare endurance saddle, only to find it bridged. I didn't know that much about saddling at that time (1987) and was setting that saddle over Stella's shoulders in an attempt to make it fit, and poor Stella: She was terrible when I started out riding, and I didn't know enough to know it was the saddle. She eventually got numb to the pain and was a bit better later in the ride. I stopped riding her when she got closer to foaling, and then ordered the Ortho-flex. Rode it on my gelding, Bjarne, who I got that spring. After Stella had foaled and the foal was a couple months old, I tried the Ortho-flex saddle on her, and even leaving her foal for the first time and not having been ridden for months, she was happy and obedient, no problems like before. It made me a believer in the Ortho-flex. There are used Ortho-flex saddles for sale on the Endurance net classified ads, http://www.endurance.net and also I see them advertised in the classified ads of Trail-Blazer magazine. Cantering has been a problem for me with my big gelding, BJorken. He will break into a canter sometimes, but I throw him off balance. Last summer my dressage instructor worked on his canter by lunging him in the field over low jumps to get him more balanced, and we were just getting the hang of canter departs last fall when the weather got bad. My instructor can get him into a canter, but is concerned with him being heavy on the forehand and off balance, thus running faster and faster to try to get his balance. (Gail copied an article from the Horseman list yesterday addressing this). Seems like Fjords are bred more for wonderful trots than canters! I have been using the Glory butterfly bits for riding as well as driving, using two reins on the bit for my dressage lessons. I use mostly the snaffle rein but have the curb rein available for control.The Glory butterfly is like a pelham bit, with a mullen mouthpeice. You can get them in any size to fit your Fjords. Jean in sunny Fairbanks, Ak 20 degrees this AM, up to 35 today * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ortho-flex saddles, Hi Suzan, Cantering
What a lot of topics already. I hardly know where to start! Steve and I have had Orthor-flex saddles for years. He has a modified American Outback and I have a Dresseur. They are great saddles and though mine was made with my Morgan in mind, their design allow thems to easily transfer to the no-withers Fjord. I do use a crupper and breast collar when trail riding in any kind of terrain other than flat. I was going down a steep hill one day and my saddle went up Tank's neck. Very awkward! Suzan, how nice to hear from you and Petra. (we have been stall neighbors at the Blue Earth Show). Will you be a Blue Earth this year? I am sorry to hear about your foal. And Unna, when you talk about your sadness always brings tears to my eyes. Cantering a Fjord - well this has been a tough one for Tank and I. His big problem was that until we moved 18 months ago to a place that had a real pasture, Tank had never really had the opportunity to canter and he was having real trouble with it. I found that by taking him out on the road where he had lot's of room (we have fairly quiet country roads), I could eventually get him into one for a short time. My best successes have been riding behind a horse that gets ahead and Tank won't be left behind or like Paul said cantering him in harness where he doesn't have to worry so much about balance. I also went back to some basics with him to help him feel more balanced. He still often launches himself off with a little buck when he canters, but this Sunday he took a canter depart under saddle from a walk and I was one happy person. He needs to canter more to get a better sense of balance and he needs to canter in a large enough arena where he can learn to turn, but one step at a time. Stopping a Cantering Fjord - This has not been a problem for me with Tank. Thankfully, he is fairly obedient. However, we have had this problem in the past with our first horse, our Morgan, Pferd. We finally solved it when we learned about doubling. Ilona, this can only be done in a snaffle bit, but it is quite effective. Doubling simply means making the horse turn back into himself. Teach your horse about it first at a walk and trot and then when he gets out of control at a canter or gallop, use it on him. To double - shorten one rein, while letting the other rein slide (you want to command the horse the turn sharply and you don't want both reins the same length). Shorten the rein until the horse cannot help but bend and turn which forces him or her to slow down or stop. Every time the horse does not listen to your halt command in any way at whatever gait, double him. You will be surprised at how much leverage you have on his nose. Pretty soon, you will find that they give in and they don't find running off so much fun. You cannot use a shank bit for this, the nutcracker effect on the horse's mouth will cause a lot of pain and horses don't think well in pain and you don't have the same leverage factor on his nose. We learned this from our first great discovery of book learning and horse training from the Mary Twelve Ponies book, There are no problem horses, only problem riders. I will look this up tonight when I get home and see if I need to improve my description for you. This is a great trick to teach any beginning rider. I was reminded of this only a few weeks ago when my visiting granddaughter had a problem with Tank who wanted to return to his mates. She began to get afraid because he was not listening to her. I taught her the doubling trick and pretty soon she felt in control when he wasn't listening to her because she could make him do what she wanted - and she is only nine. Good luck! Cynthia Madden, Coordinator Office of Sponsored Programs Research University of Nebraska at Omaha E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
