Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 217, Issue 4

[Tammy Van Boening]

I think that is the only thing that I managed to figure out this week and oh 
yea. . . that I am getting WAY TOO OLD for this cr*p.

Tammy Van Boening
Tammyvb at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of Jeff Coatsworth
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2024 5:55 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 217, Issue 4

Tammy figured it out - 
https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker-discussions/embedding-fonts-used-in-fm-source-files-to-produce-pdf/m-p/14689708#M84179
<https://t.xink.io/Tracking/Index/BmICACMNAgAEr9QA0>
<https://t.xink.io/Tracking/Index/BmICACMNAgAEr9QA0>

From: Framers 
 on behalf 
of Orly Zimmerman 
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2024 7:32 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 217, Issue 4



CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Jonas Software. DO NOT CLICK 
links or open attachments UNLESS YOU RECOGNIZE THE SENDER and know the content 
is safe.



HI Tami,
So, I've run into other types of crazy issues too in the past too, maybe, 
somehow similar
Did you try one of these solutions: (There's not really any reason these should 
work, but, anyway)
 -  InFM2022 From the File>Print Setup (when using Adobe PDF as 
Printer)>Properties...
Uncheck: Rely on system fonts, do not use document fonts

- For the para styles that you're using - where you fonts get messed up, make 
sure that for their Para Designer under the "Asian" tab, you uncheck "Use Asian 
Composer".
Adobe once helped me solve a similar problem by discovering this was checked - 
it messed up my files .

These 2 things are always the first thing I check when things start going wrong.

Good Luck,
Orly



-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Tuesday, 18 June 2024 23:01
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 217, Issue 4

Send Framers mailing list submissions to framers@lists.frameusers.com To 
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 You can reach the person managing the list at 
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so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Framers digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1.  Embedded fonts issue when producing PDF (Tammy Van Boening)
   2. Re:  Embedded fonts issue when producing PDF (Simon BUCH)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2024 14:39:28 +
From: Tammy Van Boening 
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: [Framers] Embedded fonts issue when producing PDF
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I am banging my head against a brick wall here, and Adobe is trying to figure 
out what is going on as well, but I thought that I would post to the list to 
see if anyone has run into the same issue:

I have Windows 11, 64 bit and have Framemaker 2019 installed and updated to 
date for the last version available. I have Adobe Acrobat Pro 2020 also 
installed and updated to the latest version available. I have the Roboto Font 
Family installed in C:\Windows\Fonts. I have confirmed that all the fonts are 
properly installed. They are the Open Type fonts available from Google that I 
received from a client (and they from Google) and these are the exact same 
fonts that are available from 
https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https://fonts.adobe.com/fonts/roboto___.YXAzOmpvbmFzY29ycG9yYXRlOmE6bzozZjU1YjgxMDlkNDNmYWVjYjZkN2QzMDE0NTMxODU2YTo2OjZiMmU6NjNjYjMxMzQ2MGQ4OGQ3YWJlZGJlZTI5OTY5OTRlMTNmNDg4YzMwYjcxMjYwYzNjNjVjZjc2ZWVhMjE0MTY4MzpwOlQ.
 (In fact, there is even the disclaimer for these fonts on the Adobe site that 
they are from Google.)

 In Framemaker, when I am setting up my template and creating the necessary 
paragraph tags, all the installed Roboto font families are available on the 
Font tab in the Paragraph Designer and all the available variations w/in these 
families (Bold, Italic) are available as options, so all is working correctly 
in Framemaker 2019.

 I always use the Publishing option in Framemaker to produce my PDFs. However, 
I always create a custom settings/job options file that stipulates the fonts 
that I want to embed for a specific template/client. (It's the standard 
procedure to do so, but for reference, see 
https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https://www.rockymountaintra

Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 217, Issue 4

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Tammy figured it out - 
https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker-discussions/embedding-fonts-used-in-fm-source-files-to-produce-pdf/m-p/14689708#M84179
<https://t.xink.io/Tracking/Index/BmICACMNAgAEr9QA0>
<https://t.xink.io/Tracking/Index/BmICACMNAgAEr9QA0>

From: Framers 
 on behalf 
of Orly Zimmerman 
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2024 7:32 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 217, Issue 4



CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Jonas Software. DO NOT CLICK 
links or open attachments UNLESS YOU RECOGNIZE THE SENDER and know the content 
is safe.



HI Tami,
So, I've run into other types of crazy issues too in the past too, maybe, 
somehow similar
Did you try one of these solutions: (There's not really any reason these should 
work, but, anyway)
 -  InFM2022 From the File>Print Setup (when using Adobe PDF as 
Printer)>Properties...
Uncheck: Rely on system fonts, do not use document fonts

- For the para styles that you're using - where you fonts get messed up, make 
sure that for their Para Designer under the "Asian" tab, you uncheck "Use Asian 
Composer".
Adobe once helped me solve a similar problem by discovering this was checked - 
it messed up my files .

These 2 things are always the first thing I check when things start going wrong.

Good Luck,
Orly



-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Tuesday, 18 June 2024 23:01
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 217, Issue 4

Send Framers mailing list submissions to framers@lists.frameusers.com To 
subscribe or unsubscribe, visit
https://url.avanan.click/v2/___http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com___.YXAzOmpvbmFzY29ycG9yYXRlOmE6bzozZjU1YjgxMDlkNDNmYWVjYjZkN2QzMDE0NTMxODU2YTo2OjllMzU6YjkyYmZmNDRlMjViYmFlNTkxMjZiNDJlOTg4ZTNmOWIyNmRhMDFlMDcyMmNkYjM2ZGQ3MjZkNGZjOWE3MjE5MTpwOlQ
 You can reach the person managing the list at 
framers-ow...@lists.frameusers.com When replying, please edit your Subject line 
so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Framers digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1.  Embedded fonts issue when producing PDF (Tammy Van Boening)
   2. Re:  Embedded fonts issue when producing PDF (Simon BUCH)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2024 14:39:28 +
From: Tammy Van Boening 
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: [Framers] Embedded fonts issue when producing PDF
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I am banging my head against a brick wall here, and Adobe is trying to figure 
out what is going on as well, but I thought that I would post to the list to 
see if anyone has run into the same issue:

I have Windows 11, 64 bit and have Framemaker 2019 installed and updated to 
date for the last version available. I have Adobe Acrobat Pro 2020 also 
installed and updated to the latest version available. I have the Roboto Font 
Family installed in C:\Windows\Fonts. I have confirmed that all the fonts are 
properly installed. They are the Open Type fonts available from Google that I 
received from a client (and they from Google) and these are the exact same 
fonts that are available from 
https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https://fonts.adobe.com/fonts/roboto___.YXAzOmpvbmFzY29ycG9yYXRlOmE6bzozZjU1YjgxMDlkNDNmYWVjYjZkN2QzMDE0NTMxODU2YTo2OjZiMmU6NjNjYjMxMzQ2MGQ4OGQ3YWJlZGJlZTI5OTY5OTRlMTNmNDg4YzMwYjcxMjYwYzNjNjVjZjc2ZWVhMjE0MTY4MzpwOlQ.
 (In fact, there is even the disclaimer for these fonts on the Adobe site that 
they are from Google.)

 In Framemaker, when I am setting up my template and creating the necessary 
paragraph tags, all the installed Roboto font families are available on the 
Font tab in the Paragraph Designer and all the available variations w/in these 
families (Bold, Italic) are available as options, so all is working correctly 
in Framemaker 2019.

 I always use the Publishing option in Framemaker to produce my PDFs. However, 
I always create a custom settings/job options file that stipulates the fonts 
that I want to embed for a specific template/client. (It's the standard 
procedure to do so, but for reference, see 
https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https://www.rockymountaintraining.com/adobe-framemaker-how-to-edit-the-pdf-preset-list/___.YXAzOmpvbmFzY29ycG9yYXRlOmE6bzozZjU1YjgxMDlkNDNmYWVjYjZkN2QzMDE0NTMxODU2YTo2OjNkZjc6YWFkNWY3OWMyM2FiZjZiODQ4MzI5ZjhjYjE3NGRiNGNmYTNlYTAzOGMyNDA3YmQwMTZkYjhjYzI2M2Q2NTUzYjpwOlQ.)

 When I am creating the custom job options file in Distiller 2020, this is 
where I run into the issue: Adobe Distiller is NOT recognizing all the 
installed Roboto fonts. In the Fonts source list, C:\Windows\Fonts,  only a 
very small subset of all the installed Roboto fonts are available for 
selection. And it appears to be hel

Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 217, Issue 4

[Orly Zimmerman]

HI Tami,
So, I've run into other types of crazy issues too in the past too, maybe, 
somehow similar
Did you try one of these solutions: (There's not really any reason these should 
work, but, anyway)
 -  InFM2022 From the File>Print Setup (when using Adobe PDF as 
Printer)>Properties...
Uncheck: Rely on system fonts, do not use document fonts

- For the para styles that you're using - where you fonts get messed up, make 
sure that for their Para Designer under the "Asian" tab, you uncheck "Use Asian 
Composer".
Adobe once helped me solve a similar problem by discovering this was checked - 
it messed up my files .

These 2 things are always the first thing I check when things start going wrong.

Good Luck,
Orly



-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Tuesday, 18 June 2024 23:01
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 217, Issue 4

Send Framers mailing list submissions to framers@lists.frameusers.com To 
subscribe or unsubscribe, visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com You can reach 
the person managing the list at framers-ow...@lists.frameusers.com When 
replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: 
Contents of Framers digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1.  Embedded fonts issue when producing PDF (Tammy Van Boening)
   2. Re:  Embedded fonts issue when producing PDF (Simon BUCH)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2024 14:39:28 +
From: Tammy Van Boening 
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: [Framers] Embedded fonts issue when producing PDF
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I am banging my head against a brick wall here, and Adobe is trying to figure 
out what is going on as well, but I thought that I would post to the list to 
see if anyone has run into the same issue:

I have Windows 11, 64 bit and have Framemaker 2019 installed and updated to 
date for the last version available. I have Adobe Acrobat Pro 2020 also 
installed and updated to the latest version available. I have the Roboto Font 
Family installed in C:\Windows\Fonts. I have confirmed that all the fonts are 
properly installed. They are the Open Type fonts available from Google that I 
received from a client (and they from Google) and these are the exact same 
fonts that are available from https://fonts.adobe.com/fonts/roboto. (In fact, 
there is even the disclaimer for these fonts on the Adobe site that they are 
from Google.)

 In Framemaker, when I am setting up my template and creating the necessary 
paragraph tags, all the installed Roboto font families are available on the 
Font tab in the Paragraph Designer and all the available variations w/in these 
families (Bold, Italic) are available as options, so all is working correctly 
in Framemaker 2019.

 I always use the Publishing option in Framemaker to produce my PDFs. However, 
I always create a custom settings/job options file that stipulates the fonts 
that I want to embed for a specific template/client. (It's the standard 
procedure to do so, but for reference, see 
https://www.rockymountaintraining.com/adobe-framemaker-how-to-edit-the-pdf-preset-list/.)

 When I am creating the custom job options file in Distiller 2020, this is 
where I run into the issue: Adobe Distiller is NOT recognizing all the 
installed Roboto fonts. In the Fonts source list, C:\Windows\Fonts,  only a 
very small subset of all the installed Roboto fonts are available for 
selection. And it appears to be helter skelter as to which fonts are available 
for embedding and which are not. For example, none of the Roboto Thin 
variations and none of the Roboto Light variations are available, Roboto Black 
is available, but not Roboto Black Italic and yet all the variations of the 
Roboto Condensed (Bold, Italic, etc. ) are. And for reference, 
https://helpx.adobe.com/fonts/kb/fonts-not-showing-in-the-menu.html, none of 
these possible reasons is applicable and again, I have confirmed these reasons 
are not applicable with Adobe. Acrobat is simply not recognizing these fonts 
and I cannot create the needed custom job options file to properly embed the 
needed fonts in the final PDF
   .

And I have confirmed emphatically with Adobe support that Framemaker 2019 and 
Acrobat Pro 2020 do absolutely work and are supported on Windows 11.  So far, 
FM2019 is cooperating, but the even newer product Adobe Acrobat Pro is the one 
giving me fits.



Thanks!



TVB



Tammy Van Boening
Tammyvb at spectrumwritingllc dot com
http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com/




--

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2024 16:09:40 +0100
From: Simon BUCH 
To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
, Tammy Van Boening

Subject: Re: [Fra

Re: [Framers] Embedded fonts issue when producing PDF

[Simon BUCH]

Hello Tammy,

From my experience, I have seen some cases where some font variants 
have licensing restrictions, which can affect whether Acrobat Distiller 
can embed the font in to the output.    I have just downloaded the 
Roboto font family from Google fonts, and they all appear to be TrueType 
fonts.


I recently had a technical case from one of my customers who was having 
quite some trouble with TrueType fonts that were embeded in a PDF file, 
produced from Illustrator.  We discovered that the production from Adobe 
FrameMaker had the fonts /sometimes/ being mutated in to ugly looking 
fonts with some of the background vectors being mutated in to blocky 
bitmap content.


My customer found that changing the "Adobe PDF" printer advanced 
settings on the Adobe Illustrator creator's workstation solved the 
problem with the exported PDF document, which was then laid-up in 
specific pages in FrameMaker, and the output is now as intended :-)





but YMMV


Regards
/// Simon BUCH
\\\ Edinburgh, Scotland


___

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Re: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Easiest solution is to just turn it off:

ShowTabbedWelcomeScreen=Off in the %appdata%\Adobe\FrameMaker\[FM 
version]\maker.ini file


From: Framers 
 on behalf 
of Tammy Van Boening 
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 7:10 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted



CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Jonas Software. DO NOT CLICK 
links or open attachments UNLESS YOU RECOGNIZE THE SENDER and know the content 
is safe.



https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker-discussions/pre-framemaker-2020-welcome-screen-not-displaying-properly/td-p/10434631/page/1___.YXAzOmpvbmFzY29ycG9yYXRlOmE6bzo0NDQzMDNlOTYwYTE4MGIxMWU4YjVkNmE2ZmQ5MTk2Njo2OmM3NmU6ZTc1N2UxYjU5ZGZhMGQ3ODgyZTk3NGRlMDVjODMwY2Q5MDQyYzFjNWYyMWMxNDE2ODIzYjE3N2Q3NGFmNTEwOTpwOlQ


And I intentionally did not make this an active link so that I can (hopefully) 
post to the list.  It's a very intense, heated discussion at times about this 
very issue and yep, even old perpetual license versions of 2019 have been 
nuked. And like others, Windows updates do seem to cause these issues . . . .

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
https://url.avanan.click/v2/___www.spectrumwritingllc.com___.YXAzOmpvbmFzY29ycG9yYXRlOmE6bzo0NDQzMDNlOTYwYTE4MGIxMWU4YjVkNmE2ZmQ5MTk2Njo2OjZiNjE6YzA5MDQ1MGFhNThiZWY0YzBkZjYwMDk2YWQ5MzM3ZWZhNWYxODMxNjRkOGFlNzRhNjczYmI2ZDVlOGM1MTM1NzpwOlQ

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 4:49 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted
>
> Yep, it is.  And what's really annoying is that this issue w/ my installation
> (2019) came and went, and came and went, and now, apparently, it's here to
> stay (oh joy!).  And all I can tie it to is a recent round of Windows updates
> because that's when it stayed permanently. I know that I am grasping at
> straws here, but I haven't touched my installation in like a gazillion years 
> in
> terms of customizations, etc., and there hasn't been updates for it in a long
> time either. (I still have it phone home for updates just for grins and 
> giggles to
> make sure and there's been no updates to 2019, perpetual installation
> forever!)
>
> Sigh. . .
>
> TVB
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> https://url.avanan.click/v2/___www.spectrumwritingllc.com___.YXAzOmpvbmFzY29ycG9yYXRlOmE6bzo0NDQzMDNlOTYwYTE4MGIxMWU4YjVkNmE2ZmQ5MTk2Njo2OjllMjE6NTE5YWRjMzM5NmYyZjE1NGZlZDliZDkyODU3NzllMmFkMTUzZDM4YjA3NTg1YTdiMzIxYmZjNzBiNzA3MDIzNzpwOlQ
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> Behalf
> > Of Jeff Coatsworth
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 11:12 AM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted
> >
> > Yes, it's a known issue & has been posted about in the FM forum for awhile.
> > 
> > From: Framers  > bounces+jeff.coatsworth=jonasclub@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf
> > bounces+of
> > Wim idtp 
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 12:37 PM
> > To: Framers ; TCS Gold Support
> > 
> > Subject: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted
> >
> >
> >
> > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Jonas Software. DO NOT
> > CLICK links or open attachments UNLESS YOU RECOGNIZE THE SENDER and
> > know the content is safe.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Framers,
> >
> > I was at a client today who recently installed FM2022 (FM17),
> > downloaded from the Adobe website. They al had this issue: the welcome
> > screen distorted (no css applied) and the Frame font missing -
> > resulting in not properly diplaying tabs, anchors, etc..
> >
> > Anyone seen this, what can be the cause? Note it's not one use -r all
> > users
> > (five) of the same company have the issue.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
> >
> > Wim Hooghwinkel
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
> > homepage at
> >
> https://url.avanan.click/v2/___http://www.fram

Re: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted

[Tammy Van Boening]

https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker-discussions/pre-framemaker-2020-welcome-screen-not-displaying-properly/td-p/10434631/page/1


And I intentionally did not make this an active link so that I can (hopefully) 
post to the list.  It's a very intense, heated discussion at times about this 
very issue and yep, even old perpetual license versions of 2019 have been 
nuked. And like others, Windows updates do seem to cause these issues . . . .

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 4:49 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted
> 
> Yep, it is.  And what's really annoying is that this issue w/ my installation
> (2019) came and went, and came and went, and now, apparently, it's here to
> stay (oh joy!).  And all I can tie it to is a recent round of Windows updates
> because that's when it stayed permanently. I know that I am grasping at
> straws here, but I haven't touched my installation in like a gazillion years 
> in
> terms of customizations, etc., and there hasn't been updates for it in a long
> time either. (I still have it phone home for updates just for grins and 
> giggles to
> make sure and there's been no updates to 2019, perpetual installation
> forever!)
> 
> Sigh. . .
> 
> TVB
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> Behalf
> > Of Jeff Coatsworth
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 11:12 AM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted
> >
> > Yes, it's a known issue & has been posted about in the FM forum for awhile.
> > 
> > From: Framers  > bounces+jeff.coatsworth=jonasclub@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf
> > bounces+of
> > Wim idtp 
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 12:37 PM
> > To: Framers ; TCS Gold Support
> > 
> > Subject: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted
> >
> >
> >
> > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Jonas Software. DO NOT
> > CLICK links or open attachments UNLESS YOU RECOGNIZE THE SENDER and
> > know the content is safe.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Framers,
> >
> > I was at a client today who recently installed FM2022 (FM17),
> > downloaded from the Adobe website. They al had this issue: the welcome
> > screen distorted (no css applied) and the Frame font missing -
> > resulting in not properly diplaying tabs, anchors, etc..
> >
> > Anyone seen this, what can be the cause? Note it's not one use -r all
> > users
> > (five) of the same company have the issue.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
> >
> > Wim Hooghwinkel
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
> > homepage at
> >
> https://url.avanan.click/v2/___http://www.frameusers.com___.YXAzOmpvb
> >
> mFzY29ycG9yYXRlOmE6bzozNzc2OWE2Y2Y0YjEyOTIzOWRjYjQwNzk3NGU5
> >
> OGFlYzo2OjI5ODg6MWY3ZDI4OTRkMzQwNWUyZTJhZTVkNDcyYzg5MjZkMT
> > EwYmNjYzBlYTUwYTA2YjcxN2U1YjVhM2M1ZDJkYzQ2NDpwOlQ
> > Archives located at https://url.avanan.click/v2/___http://www.mail-
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Re: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted

[Tammy Van Boening]

Yep, it is.  And what's really annoying is that this issue w/ my installation 
(2019) came and went, and came and went, and now, apparently, it's here to stay 
(oh joy!).  And all I can tie it to is a recent round of Windows updates 
because that's when it stayed permanently. I know that I am grasping at straws 
here, but I haven't touched my installation in like a gazillion years in terms 
of customizations, etc., and there hasn't been updates for it in a long time 
either. (I still have it phone home for updates just for grins and giggles to 
make sure and there's been no updates to 2019, perpetual installation forever!)

Sigh. . .

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Jeff Coatsworth
> Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 11:12 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted
> 
> Yes, it's a known issue & has been posted about in the FM forum for awhile.
> 
> From: Framers  bounces+jeff.coatsworth=jonasclub@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf of
> Wim idtp 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 12:37 PM
> To: Framers ; TCS Gold Support
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted
> 
> 
> 
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Jonas Software. DO NOT
> CLICK links or open attachments UNLESS YOU RECOGNIZE THE SENDER and
> know the content is safe.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Framers,
> 
> I was at a client today who recently installed FM2022 (FM17), downloaded
> from the Adobe website. They al had this issue: the welcome screen distorted
> (no css applied) and the Frame font missing - resulting in not properly
> diplaying tabs, anchors, etc..
> 
> Anyone seen this, what can be the cause? Note it's not one use -r all users
> (five) of the same company have the issue.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
> 
> Wim Hooghwinkel
> 
> 
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Re: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Yes, it's a known issue & has been posted about in the FM forum for awhile.

From: Framers 
 on behalf 
of Wim idtp 
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 12:37 PM
To: Framers ; TCS Gold Support 
Subject: [Framers] Frame5 font missing and welcome page distorted



CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Jonas Software. DO NOT CLICK 
links or open attachments UNLESS YOU RECOGNIZE THE SENDER and know the content 
is safe.



Hi Framers,

I was at a client today who recently installed FM2022 (FM17), downloaded from 
the Adobe website. They al had this issue: the welcome screen distorted (no css 
applied) and the Frame font missing - resulting in not properly diplaying tabs, 
anchors, etc..

Anyone seen this, what can be the cause? Note it’s not one use -r all users 
(five) of the same company have the issue.

Thanks!


Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,

Wim Hooghwinkel


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Re: [Framers] Searching for an en dash in a big FM document

[Tammy Van Boening]

Thank you to everyone who responded. I appreciate the help and I will try using 
the hex code. Yes, I did try copying and pasting the dash to the find field 
first before posting and no joy.藍
But one of these responses will definitely work!
TGIF,
Tammy
Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.

> On May 31, 2024, at 5:41 PM, David Artman  wrote:
> 
> You should be able to enter the character in the Find field using the Alt 
> code, then choose a replacement, and use Find Next + Replace (carefully!) to 
> verify desired results.
> 
> If the Find dialog doesn't let you enter the Alt code, enter it in Notepad or 
> something, copy it, and paste the copied en dash into FM Find field.
> 
> Are you not able to do either of these?
> 
> David Artman
> 
> DCA:d.a.d.
> 
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Tammy Van Boening 
> Date: 5/31/24 19:15 (GMT-05:00)
> To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." 
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Searching for an en dash in a big FM document
> 
> I have a legacy book (oh joy) in which I want to do a search and replace for 
> all the en dashes. I know that the ALT code for this special character is 
> Alt+0150. Is there a way to search all the files in the FM book using this 
> code and if so, what do I select for the Find option - not a Paragraph Tag, 
> for example, but what else? If I can't search by the ALT code, how else can I 
> search short of very intense/mind-numbing/drink-inducing page by page hunt 
> and kill?
> 
> TIA,
> 
> TVB
> 
> 
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
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Re: [Framers] Searching for an en dash in a big FM document

[Craig W. Johnson]

Tammy,

I try to work in Unicode whenever I’m straying outside of the realm of 8-bit 
characters as each app has its own weird shortcuts. 

In Frame’s find box the syntax \u works, with each # representing the hex 
digit in Unicode. 

So, for endashes, use \u2013. Unicode values can be easily looked up at 
Unicode.org. 

Craig Johnson
San Francisco


Sent from my iPad

> On May 31, 2024, at 4:41 PM, David Artman  wrote:
> 
> You should be able to enter the character in the Find field using the Alt 
> code, then choose a replacement, and use Find Next + Replace (carefully!) to 
> verify desired results.
> 
> If the Find dialog doesn't let you enter the Alt code, enter it in Notepad or 
> something, copy it, and paste the copied en dash into FM Find field.
> 
> Are you not able to do either of these?
> 
> David Artman
> 
> DCA:d.a.d.
> 
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Tammy Van Boening 
> Date: 5/31/24 19:15 (GMT-05:00)
> To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." 
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Searching for an en dash in a big FM document
> 
> I have a legacy book (oh joy) in which I want to do a search and replace for 
> all the en dashes. I know that the ALT code for this special character is 
> Alt+0150. Is there a way to search all the files in the FM book using this 
> code and if so, what do I select for the Find option - not a Paragraph Tag, 
> for example, but what else? If I can't search by the ALT code, how else can I 
> search short of very intense/mind-numbing/drink-inducing page by page hunt 
> and kill?
> 
> TIA,
> 
> TVB
> 
> 
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Framers] Searching for an en dash in a big FM document

[David Artman]

You should be able to enter the character in the Find field using the Alt code, 
then choose a replacement, and use Find Next + Replace (carefully!) to verify 
desired results.

If the Find dialog doesn't let you enter the Alt code, enter it in Notepad or 
something, copy it, and paste the copied en dash into FM Find field.

Are you not able to do either of these?

David Artman

DCA:d.a.d.



 Original message 
From: Tammy Van Boening 
Date: 5/31/24 19:15 (GMT-05:00)
To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." 

Subject: [Framers] Searching for an en dash in a big FM document

I have a legacy book (oh joy) in which I want to do a search and replace for 
all the en dashes. I know that the ALT code for this special character is 
Alt+0150. Is there a way to search all the files in the FM book using this code 
and if so, what do I select for the Find option - not a Paragraph Tag, for 
example, but what else? If I can't search by the ALT code, how else can I 
search short of very intense/mind-numbing/drink-inducing page by page hunt and 
kill?

TIA,

TVB



Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com



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Re: [Framers] Searching for an en dash in a big FM document

[Thomas Bain]

Try searching for \=. 

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2024 19:12
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: [Framers] Searching for an en dash in a big FM document

I have a legacy book (oh joy) in which I want to do a search and replace for
all the en dashes. I know that the ALT code for this special character is
Alt+0150. Is there a way to search all the files in the FM book using this
code and if so, what do I select for the Find option - not a Paragraph Tag,
for example, but what else? If I can't search by the ALT code, how else can
I search short of very intense/mind-numbing/drink-inducing page by page hunt
and kill?

TIA,

TVB



Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com



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Re: [Framers] Test Post

[Tammy Van Boening]

It has to reach the server to be archived.

For whatever reason, I’m able to see everybody else’s  post and people say mine 
are hitting the list, but all of a sudden I’m not seeing my own posts in my 
email to the list. I’m trying to work with my email provider to figure out what 
the heck is going on

Thanks! 
Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.

> On May 21, 2024, at 7:51 AM, Johan Anglemark  wrote:
> 
> As can be seen in the list archive, it never reached the list server.
> 
> -j
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  
> On Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: den 21 maj 2024 15:45
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Test Post
> 
> The usual testing to see if my posts are being received to the list. I posted 
> yesterday and still haven't seen my message come through. Sigh.
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> 
> ___
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Re: [Framers] Are you seeing my posts

[Julie Sigrist]

Yes

Julie Sigrist
Quality Assurance Associate Writer
Airborne Maintenance & Engineering Services
Cell 513-607-1444
145 Hunter Dr. l Wilmington, OH l 45177
www.airbornemx.com
[cid:image001.png@01DAAB77.59EE5360]

From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of r...@rickquatro.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2024 10:33 AM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.' 

Subject: [Framers] Are you seeing my posts

Hi All,



Checking this for a member of the list.



Rick

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Re: [Framers] Are you seeing my posts

[Tammy Van Boening]

Nope, just two from today and one from yesterday. I am seeing everyone else's 
post to the list, but not mine for some reason, but everyone is apparently 
seeing mine. Trying to work with my email provider to see if there is some 
issue there. Ain't technology grand?

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Jeff Coatsworth
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2024 8:50 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Are you seeing my posts
> 
> Just saw this one only - were there more Rick?
> <https://t.xink.io/Tracking/Index/BmICACMNAgAEr9QA0>
> 
> From: Framers  bounces+jeff.coatsworth=jonasclub@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf of
> r...@rickquatro.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2024 10:32 AM
> To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Are you seeing my posts
> 
> 
> 
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Jonas Software. DO NOT
> CLICK links or open attachments UNLESS YOU RECOGNIZE THE SENDER and
> know the content is safe.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> 
> Checking this for a member of the list.
> 
> 
> 
> Rick
> 
> ___
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Re: [Framers] Are you seeing my posts

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Just saw this one only - were there more Rick?


From: Framers 
 on behalf 
of r...@rickquatro.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2024 10:32 AM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.' 

Subject: [Framers] Are you seeing my posts



CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Jonas Software. DO NOT CLICK 
links or open attachments UNLESS YOU RECOGNIZE THE SENDER and know the content 
is safe.



Hi All,



Checking this for a member of the list.



Rick

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Re: [Framers] Are you seeing my posts

[guy]

Si.  I see.

---


On 2024-05-21 07:32, r...@rickquatro.com wrote:

Hi All,



Checking this for a member of the list.



Rick

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Re: [Framers] Posting for a retired colleague

[Jeff Coatsworth]

What version of TCS are you looking for Stuart? I may have some install files 
that match.


From: Framers 
 on behalf 
of Tammy Van Boening 
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2024 9:55 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: [Framers] Posting for a retired colleague



CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Jonas Software. DO NOT CLICK 
links or open attachments UNLESS YOU RECOGNIZE THE SENDER and know the content 
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Hello remaining Whirlers,

I retired from tech comm in 2015; before that, I was a fairly active user of 
this list. I see now that it has dwindled and is possibly replaced by some 
other forum. Similarly, the frameusers community seems to have dissolved.

I'm hoping someone can help me find some FrameMaker users, as I have a need to 
use some applications in Adobe TCS. I have a licensed copy on an old personal 
laptop (legal, per the licence agreement), but want to move it to a new laptop. 
Unfortunately, my former employer tossed the installation discs sometime in the 
intervening years ("let's tidy this place up") and Adobe no longer provides 
downloadable installation files.
Perhaps someone out there has discs they could help me out with.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

Best regards,

--
Stuart Rogers
formerly srogers @ phoenix-geophysics dot 
com
150 St. Clair Ave. W. Apt. 205
Toronto, ON  M4V 1P6
416-929-0125 (H)
416-655-2267 (M)


Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
https://url.avanan.click/v2/___www.spectrumwritingllc.com___.YXAzOmpvbmFzY29ycG9yYXRlOmE6bzpjNjZiMWI4YWFlODY3ZDI1Yzc1N2FiOWZjM2Q5NmQ4Zjo2OjJlMjI6M2VhYzlhYzExYzlmMTdjZmU1ZGUxMWU4OGIyYzdhYzNlMjk1MzEwYmQ3MzRkNThjZjdmYmYwMzM3NzYyMDI1ODpwOlQ



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Re: [Framers] Test Post

[Johan Anglemark]

As can be seen in the list archive, it never reached the list server.

-j

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: den 21 maj 2024 15:45
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: [Framers] Test Post

The usual testing to see if my posts are being received to the list. I posted 
yesterday and still haven't seen my message come through. Sigh.

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com

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Re: [Framers] Giving away copies of the printed manual for FrameMaker 7.0

[Syed Zaeem Hosain]

Yeah! 

I thought that they might not have value anymore.  Indeed, once I punted 
FrameMaker from my company (due to the absurd upgrade pricing), I let all our 
licenses for our writers "expire".

I stopped my upgrades at FM 12, and only use it (rarely) to make quick edits to 
old docs, unless it is better to bring them into my new flow (that uses LaTeX) 
for major changes ... takes about a day to convert. Easy for my documentation, 
since the format is relatively straightforward, but not necessarily best for 
other users.

Side-bar: FM 12 still works on Parallels on Windows 11 on my Intel MAC - when 
that fails, I will permanently abandon FM and that will be a sad day ... I have 
used FM off and on since 1988 (started on a B/W Sun Microsystem 3/50 
workstation).

FWIW, I am learning Illustrator at the moment - one of our designers put my 
books together in that app. He is no longer with the company, so my new edition 
will need me to edit in Illustrator.

My company got me a Creative Cloud license ... I am using that on my current M3 
Mac, although my personal tools are from Xara - with a nod to Scrivener for 
some non-company writing that I am slowly working on.

Anyway, I suspect I will not have any takers for these old manuals. Oh, well 
... that is what recycle bins are for, I guess! 

Z

Tammy Van Boening wrote:
> Man, I remember when those thing used to be liquid gold!!! I myself have one 
> for FM 7.0 and two for 6.0 - not much difference between the two. But alas, 
> w/ Framemaker no longer the in demand tool that it was, I couldn't give mine 
> away (shipping costs only as well) either!

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 6:40 PM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: [Framers] Giving away copies of the printed manual for FrameMaker
> 7.0
>
> Hi, all.
>
> I have four copies of the old FrameMaker 7.0 printed manual from Adobe (one 
> is still shrink-wrapped) that I am giving away ... only asking for the cost 
> of shipping to you.
>
> Please let me know if you'd like one, your address (so I can calculate the 
> box cost, postage), etc.
>
> First come-first served, of course! And, If I don't hear from anybody by the 
> end of May, these will all end up in recycling bins.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Z



This communication contains Aeris Confidential Information. If it has been sent 
to you in error, please reply to advise the sender of the error and then 
immediately delete this message.
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Re: [Framers] Giving away copies of the printed manual for FrameMaker 7.0

[Tammy Van Boening]

Man, I remember when those thing used to be liquid gold!!! I myself have one 
for FM 7.0 and two for 6.0 - not much difference between the two. But alas, w/ 
Framemaker no longer the in demand tool that it was, I couldn't give mine away 
(shipping costs only as well) either!  

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 6:40 PM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: [Framers] Giving away copies of the printed manual for FrameMaker
> 7.0
> 
> Hi, all.
> 
> I have four copies of the old FrameMaker 7.0 printed manual from Adobe (one
> is still shrink-wrapped) that I am giving away ... only asking for the cost of
> shipping to you.
> 
> Please let me know if you'd like one, your address (so I can calculate the box
> cost, postage), etc.
> 
> First come-first served, of course! And, If I don't hear from anybody by the
> end of May, these will all end up in recycling bins.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Z
> 
> 
> 
> This communication contains Aeris Confidential Information. If it has been
> sent to you in error, please reply to advise the sender of the error and then
> immediately delete this message.
> ___
> 
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> 
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Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?

[Edwards, Patrick H]

Lots of wonderful stuff on fonts as well in The Elements of Typographic Style 
by Robert Bringhurst. Samples, advice, designers, foundries, terminology, 
candyland for font geeks like me.

Patrick

From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of acr...@shaw.ca
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 11:10 AM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.' 
; tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?

Off topic from the original question, but I give two thumbs up to the book 
"Just my Type"! Alison -Original Message- From: Framers 
 On Behalf Of Syed 
Zaeem Hosain Sent: March
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart
This Message Is From an External Sender
This message came from outside your organization.
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd

Off topic from the original question, but I give two thumbs up to the book 
"Just my Type"!



Alison



-Original Message-

From: Framers 
mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=shaw...@lists.frameusers.com>>
 On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain

Sent: March 21, 2024 7:19 PM

To: Framers 
mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>; 
tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com<mailto:tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com>

Subject: Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?



I like Eurostile a lot? (bought it from Adobe for myself decades ago and loved 
the squarish look, particularly Eurostile Wide for some uses).



Google recommends Orbitron as "similar" to Eurostile. However, I have not used 
that one yet, so please check it out yourself.



In my current company, we use fonts that are likely to be public or generally 
available, and Google fonts tend to fit that requirement well.



Some time back, our design folks chose Nunito and Montserrat from Google as our 
nominal sans serif "standards" for our template for presentation materials. I 
have not started using them yet ...



My favorite for PowerPoint decks is in the Segoe family - regular and bolded 
Segoe UI looks very elegant (to me anyway - beauty is in the eye of the 
beholder, right? ??) when presented on a screen.



Z



P.S. You probably did not realize that you opened a Pandora's box for me by 
discussing fonts! ??



I am a geek in this matter - I own a printed copy of Adobe's book of their 
fonts from some years ago, and also own these books on fonts:



https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.amazon.com/Just-My-Type-About-Fonts/dp/1592407463/ref=sr_1_2?crid=R0NOZ8M8EM7G=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.NchNMphdD2-FiEIcjZ5Q0ozH5yBfBztwdrlben1DLTyqYBItlQ598x0ppw-Ru8NmJ0PWQBA-V_Ha7kWywC291EksvsnJUoYkL_7TiyYxClP6LSfEL5qmku8X94QxZc4QgRO-997lmWBF_KsDUSX3wUuvQtMWOTHBbBdMRvGXxm2w1dlItaZ27cDoXaaz2FvQuLcDAddYK_FLJwyNswNhnpCffz-7ZHXC8LIBT0AUXcE.XTtWJ6K5FPl2N_PD44p3lUZmsc7vynljyiy_qe7hNVI_tag=se=Just*My*Type=1711073475=just*my*type*2Caps*2C238=8-2__;KysrKyUl!!KwNVnqRv!BNM3t3oXro2IWrjE-0okoTosrj1om7p5A7cc9S1-IDCvSCl4CPx-kcKye8h1Eg4hpJsbwiT5capTx5lagFQ$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.amazon.com/Just-My-Type-About-Fonts/dp/1592407463/ref=sr_1_2?crid=R0NOZ8M8EM7G=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.NchNMphdD2-FiEIcjZ5Q0ozH5yBfBztwdrlben1DLTyqYBItlQ598x0ppw-Ru8NmJ0PWQBA-V_Ha7kWywC291EksvsnJUoYkL_7TiyYxClP6LSfEL5qmku8X94QxZc4QgRO-997lmWBF_KsDUSX3wUuvQtMWOTHBbBdMRvGXxm2w1dlItaZ27cDoXaaz2FvQuLcDAddYK_FLJwyNswNhnpCffz-7ZHXC8LIBT0AUXcE.XTtWJ6K5FPl2N_PD44p3lUZmsc7vynljyiy_qe7hNVI_tag=se=Just*My*Type=1711073475=just*my*type*2Caps*2C238=8-2__;KysrKyUl!!KwNVnqRv!BNM3t3oXro2IWrjE-0okoTosrj1om7p5A7cc9S1-IDCvSCl4CPx-kcKye8h1Eg4hpJsbwiT5capTx5lagFQ$>



and



https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.amazon.com/Why-Fonts-Matter-Sarah-Hyndman/dp/1584236310/ref=sr_1_2?crid=38PAKFEX3F62A=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.qRAZgEPI8_lVrfYxajj7Py_9NW3q9VdRbwgIpJCaMz6NpJziCb4_thVNGzaGyNL50wo4jkanh6VWQfpLe27FBGAajIGGDmn6y0Wa0qXCScBhhGy7ZxopDAEpWlhAt2wvKKArd-TFcdRqt1fL2I2afGLxRWup7v92RhqWF8ZhCDjVXo00hL04Uo3VYMzFEE6eXZkCAPoj60b6_o69KwiUNPksZYqW4MWwax1mUUo7vhylSO__ExjE4U2wUeqmDATZSE2cydcq5Bqkc62T2zTkwJOrsgONEtPD6e4aBxGLcfs.eBIWY8LAx3FyRfvZYmM0fbu8aOrm2RgxQWgiWzYJG4M_tag=se=fonts=1711073562=fonts*2Caps*2C237=8-2__;JSU!!KwNVnqRv!BNM3t3oXro2IWrjE-0okoTosrj1om7p5A7cc9S1-IDCvSCl4CPx-kcKye8h1Eg4hpJsbwiT5capT_aDtM4E$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.amazon.com/Why-Fonts-Matter-Sarah-Hyndman/dp/1584236310/ref=sr_1_2?crid=38PAKFEX3F62A=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.qRAZgEPI8_lVrfYxajj7Py_9NW3q9VdRbwgIpJCaMz6NpJziCb4_thVNGzaGyNL50wo4jkanh6VWQfpLe27FBGAajIGGDmn6y0Wa0qXCScBhhGy7ZxopDAEpWlhAt2wvKKArd-TFcdRqt1fL2I2afGLxRWup7v92RhqWF8ZhCDjVXo00hL04Uo3VYMzFEE6eXZkCAPoj60b6_o69KwiUNPksZYqW4MWwax1mUUo7vhylSO__ExjE4U2wUeqmDATZSE2cydcq5Bqkc62T2zTkwJOrsgONEtPD6e4aBxGLcfs.eBIWY8LAx3FyRfvZYmM0fbu8aOrm2RgxQWgiWzYJG4M_tag=se=fonts=1711073562=fonts*2Caps*2C237=8-2__;JSU!!KwNVnqRv!BNM3t3oXro2IWrjE-0okoTosrj1om7p5A7cc9S1-IDCvSCl4CPx-kcKye8h1Eg4hpJsbwiT5capT_aDtM4E$>



From: Framers 
mailto:framers-bounces+syed.hosain=aeris@lists.frameusers.com>>
 on behalf of Tammy Van Boening 
mailto:tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com>>

Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 07:02 AM

To

Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?

[acraig]

Off topic from the original question, but I give two thumbs up to the book 
"Just my Type"! 

Alison

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On Behalf 
Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
Sent: March 21, 2024 7:19 PM
To: Framers ; tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?

I like Eurostile a lot? (bought it from Adobe for myself decades ago and loved 
the squarish look, particularly Eurostile Wide for some uses).

Google recommends Orbitron as "similar" to Eurostile. However, I have not used 
that one yet, so please check it out yourself.

In my current company, we use fonts that are likely to be public or generally 
available, and Google fonts tend to fit that requirement well.

Some time back, our design folks chose Nunito and Montserrat from Google as our 
nominal sans serif "standards" for our template for presentation materials. I 
have not started using them yet ...

My favorite for PowerPoint decks is in the Segoe family - regular and bolded 
Segoe UI looks very elegant (to me anyway - beauty is in the eye of the 
beholder, right? ??) when presented on a screen.

Z

P.S. You probably did not realize that you opened a Pandora's box for me by 
discussing fonts! ??

I am a geek in this matter - I own a printed copy of Adobe's book of their 
fonts from some years ago, and also own these books on fonts:

https://www.amazon.com/Just-My-Type-About-Fonts/dp/1592407463/ref=sr_1_2?crid=R0NOZ8M8EM7G=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.NchNMphdD2-FiEIcjZ5Q0ozH5yBfBztwdrlben1DLTyqYBItlQ598x0ppw-Ru8NmJ0PWQBA-V_Ha7kWywC291EksvsnJUoYkL_7TiyYxClP6LSfEL5qmku8X94QxZc4QgRO-997lmWBF_KsDUSX3wUuvQtMWOTHBbBdMRvGXxm2w1dlItaZ27cDoXaaz2FvQuLcDAddYK_FLJwyNswNhnpCffz-7ZHXC8LIBT0AUXcE.XTtWJ6K5FPl2N_PD44p3lUZmsc7vynljyiy_qe7hNVI_tag=se=Just+My+Type=1711073475=just+my+type%2Caps%2C238=8-2

and

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Fonts-Matter-Sarah-Hyndman/dp/1584236310/ref=sr_1_2?crid=38PAKFEX3F62A=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.qRAZgEPI8_lVrfYxajj7Py_9NW3q9VdRbwgIpJCaMz6NpJziCb4_thVNGzaGyNL50wo4jkanh6VWQfpLe27FBGAajIGGDmn6y0Wa0qXCScBhhGy7ZxopDAEpWlhAt2wvKKArd-TFcdRqt1fL2I2afGLxRWup7v92RhqWF8ZhCDjVXo00hL04Uo3VYMzFEE6eXZkCAPoj60b6_o69KwiUNPksZYqW4MWwax1mUUo7vhylSO__ExjE4U2wUeqmDATZSE2cydcq5Bqkc62T2zTkwJOrsgONEtPD6e4aBxGLcfs.eBIWY8LAx3FyRfvZYmM0fbu8aOrm2RgxQWgiWzYJG4M_tag=se=fonts=1711073562=fonts%2Caps%2C237=8-2

From: Framers  on 
behalf of Tammy Van Boening 
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 07:02 AM
To: Framers 
Subject: [Framers] San Serif Font?

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.


OK all,
I am doing a major overhaul on an existing template for a client. I very much 
like the San serif fonts of Eurostile or Roboto, but I really don t want to 
break my cardinal rule of using proprietary fonts that have to be embedded in 
the final PDF. I really would like to be able to use a font that comes standard 
with windows, but which font, in your opinion, that comes standard with windows 
would be the closest to either of these two fonts?

My client saw a template that I was working on for another project and really 
commented that they liked the look of the Roboto font and then I showed him one 
with the EUROSTILE font and they like that one just as much. That said, I don t 
wanna leave my client with  having to deal with fonts in their source files.
Thanks!
Tammy

Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
___

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Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?

[Syed Zaeem Hosain]

I like Eurostile a lot​ (bought it from Adobe for myself decades ago and loved 
the squarish look, particularly Eurostile Wide for some uses).

Google recommends Orbitron as "similar" to Eurostile. However, I have not used 
that one yet, so please check it out yourself.

In my current company, we use fonts that are likely to be public or generally 
available, and Google fonts tend to fit that requirement well.

Some time back, our design folks chose Nunito and Montserrat from Google as our 
nominal sans serif "standards" for our template for presentation materials. I 
have not started using them yet ...

My favorite for PowerPoint decks is in the Segoe family - regular and bolded 
Segoe UI looks very elegant (to me anyway - beauty is in the eye of the 
beholder, right? ) when presented on a screen.

Z

P.S. You probably did not realize that you opened a Pandora's box for me by 
discussing fonts! 

I am a geek in this matter - I own a printed copy of Adobe's book of their 
fonts from some years ago, and also own these books on fonts:

https://www.amazon.com/Just-My-Type-About-Fonts/dp/1592407463/ref=sr_1_2?crid=R0NOZ8M8EM7G=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.NchNMphdD2-FiEIcjZ5Q0ozH5yBfBztwdrlben1DLTyqYBItlQ598x0ppw-Ru8NmJ0PWQBA-V_Ha7kWywC291EksvsnJUoYkL_7TiyYxClP6LSfEL5qmku8X94QxZc4QgRO-997lmWBF_KsDUSX3wUuvQtMWOTHBbBdMRvGXxm2w1dlItaZ27cDoXaaz2FvQuLcDAddYK_FLJwyNswNhnpCffz-7ZHXC8LIBT0AUXcE.XTtWJ6K5FPl2N_PD44p3lUZmsc7vynljyiy_qe7hNVI_tag=se=Just+My+Type=1711073475=just+my+type%2Caps%2C238=8-2

and

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Fonts-Matter-Sarah-Hyndman/dp/1584236310/ref=sr_1_2?crid=38PAKFEX3F62A=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.qRAZgEPI8_lVrfYxajj7Py_9NW3q9VdRbwgIpJCaMz6NpJziCb4_thVNGzaGyNL50wo4jkanh6VWQfpLe27FBGAajIGGDmn6y0Wa0qXCScBhhGy7ZxopDAEpWlhAt2wvKKArd-TFcdRqt1fL2I2afGLxRWup7v92RhqWF8ZhCDjVXo00hL04Uo3VYMzFEE6eXZkCAPoj60b6_o69KwiUNPksZYqW4MWwax1mUUo7vhylSO__ExjE4U2wUeqmDATZSE2cydcq5Bqkc62T2zTkwJOrsgONEtPD6e4aBxGLcfs.eBIWY8LAx3FyRfvZYmM0fbu8aOrm2RgxQWgiWzYJG4M_tag=se=fonts=1711073562=fonts%2Caps%2C237=8-2

From: Framers  on 
behalf of Tammy Van Boening 
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 07:02 AM
To: Framers 
Subject: [Framers] San Serif Font?

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.


OK all,
I am doing a major overhaul on an existing template for a client. I very much 
like the San serif fonts of Eurostile or Roboto, but I really don’t want to 
break my cardinal rule of using proprietary fonts that have to be embedded in 
the final PDF. I really would like to be able to use a font that comes standard 
with windows, but which font, in your opinion, that comes standard with windows 
would be the closest to either of these two fonts?

My client saw a template that I was working on for another project and really 
commented that they liked the look of the Roboto font and then I showed him one 
with the EUROSTILE font and they like that one just as much. That said, I don’t 
wanna leave my client with  having to deal with fonts in their source files.
Thanks!
Tammy

Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
___

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immediately delete this message.
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Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?

[Tammy Van Boening]

OK, this list just rocks. Thank you for all the font information and seeing as 
how Roboto is a free Google font, I am sticking with it.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 3:51 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Principal/Owner
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> 303-840-1755
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> Behalf
> > Of Tori Muir
> > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 1:56 PM
> > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?
> >
> > We use google fonts almost exclusively these days -- Free, many have a
> > wide range of weights, and they read well on screen. Added bonus: none
> > of the wonky "available in application X but not in application Y"
> > issues that Adobe fonts seem to be plagued by (on MacOS at least).
> >
> > Tori Muir
> > tm...@spot-on-creative.com | 650.430.8674 www.spot-on-creative.com
> > <http://www.spot-on-creative.com>
> >
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
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Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?

[Tammy Van Boening]

Thank you!

Tammy Van Boening
Principal/Owner
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
303-840-1755

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Tori Muir
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 1:56 PM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?
> 
> We use google fonts almost exclusively these days -- Free, many have a wide
> range of weights, and they read well on screen. Added bonus: none of the
> wonky "available in application X but not in application Y" issues that Adobe
> fonts seem to be plagued by (on MacOS at least).
> 
> Tori Muir
> tm...@spot-on-creative.com | 650.430.8674 www.spot-on-creative.com
> <http://www.spot-on-creative.com>
> 
___

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Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?

[Tori Muir]

We use google fonts almost exclusively these days -- Free, many have a wide 
range of weights, and they read well on screen. Added bonus: none of the wonky 
"available in application X but not in application Y" issues that Adobe fonts 
seem to be plagued by (on MacOS at least). 

Tori Muir
tm...@spot-on-creative.com | 650.430.8674
www.spot-on-creative.com <http://www.spot-on-creative.com>

On 3/21/24, 9:02 AM, "Framers on behalf of Edwards, Patrick H" 
 wrote:

You could use something like Adobe's Source Sans that has a ton of variants:
https://fonts.adobe.com/fonts/source-sans
See the Licensing tab on this page.

Best,
Patrick

Patrick H. Edwards * Supervisor of Production
International Ocean Discovery Program * JOIDES Resolution Science Operator
Texas A University * 1000 Discovery Drive * College Station TX  77845-9547
979 845 1172 * edwa...@iodp.tamu.edu<mailto:edwa...@iodp.tamu.edu>


From: Framers  
On Behalf Of Simon BUCH
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 10:17 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 
; Tammy Van Boening 

Subject: Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?

Hello Tammy, "Standard" with Windows? I find that Microsoft will make 
changes to their Windows and Office offerings as they want to, and Adobe tends 
to supply few and fewer fonts with every product release. For example, 
Microsoft recently changed
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart
This Message Is From an External Sender
This message came from outside your organization.
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd

Hello Tammy,



"Standard" with Windows?   I find that Microsoft will make changes to

their Windows and Office offerings as they want to, and Adobe tends to

supply few and fewer fonts with every product release. For example,

Microsoft recently changed the default Office font from Calibri to Aptos.



Fonts that come with Windows are not the same as fonts that are supplied

when Microsoft Office is installed.

One good example of this is "Arial".  When some versions of Office were

installed, Arial got a "Unicode MS" variant which had many more font

glyphs than the original Arial. This would sometimes cause problems when

Word documents were shared with users who didn't have the extra fonts

installed.





I would suggest to specify a font the customer wants, regardless of what

Microsoft specifies.

This way you/customer can choose which fonts to use, but also determine

under which license the fonts are available.

 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto/about?query=roboto__;!!KwNVnqRv!DYs1ePN8HurXYOPW-pEt8jqcHIAe89n0fW2HEeWZvDJQo3bSWNf6eigcQgkYE9fomFWJ6vAVeB7pM_UIS6nqWxg$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto/about?query=roboto__;!!KwNVnqRv!DYs1ePN8HurXYOPW-pEt8jqcHIAe89n0fW2HEeWZvDJQo3bSWNf6eigcQgkYE9fomFWJ6vAVeB7pM_UIS6nqWxg$>





Regards

/// Simon BUCH









On 21/03/2024 14:02, Tammy Van Boening wrote:

> OK all,

> I am doing a major overhaul on an existing template for a client. I very 
much like the San serif fonts of Eurostile or Roboto, but I really don't want 
to break my cardinal rule of using proprietary fonts that have to be embedded 
in the final PDF. I really would like to be able to use a font that comes 
standard with windows, but which font, in your opinion, that comes standard 
with windows would be the closest to either of these two fonts?

>

> My client saw a template that I was working on for another project and 
really commented that they liked the look of the Roboto font and then I showed 
him one with the EUROSTILE font and they like that one just as much. That said, 
I don't wanna leave my client with  having to deal with fonts in their source 
files.

> Thanks!

> Tammy

>

> Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.

> ___

>

> This message is from the Framers mailing list

>

> Send messages to 
framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>

> Visit the list's homepage at  
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.frameusers.com__;!!KwNVnqRv!DYs1ePN8HurXYOPW-pEt8jqcHIAe89n0fW2HEeWZvDJQo3bSWNf6eigcQgkYE9fomFWJ6vAVeB7pM_UIvj3qips$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.frameusers.com__;!!KwNVnqRv!DYs1ePN8HurXYOPW-pEt8jqcHIAe89n0fW2HEeWZvDJQo3bSWNf6eigcQgkYE9fomFWJ6vAVeB7pM_UIvj3qips$>

> Archives located at 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.mail-archive.com/framers*40lists.frameusers.com/__;JQ!!KwNVnqRv!DYs1ePN8HurXYOPW-pEt8jqcHIAe89n0fW2HEeWZvDJQo3bSWNf6eigcQgkYE9fomFWJ6vAVeB7pM_UIJeNEq9g$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.mail-archive.com/framers*40lists.frameusers.com/__;JQ!!KwNVnqRv!DYs1ePN8HurXYOPW-pEt8

Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?

[Edwards, Patrick H]

You could use something like Adobe's Source Sans that has a ton of variants:
https://fonts.adobe.com/fonts/source-sans
See the Licensing tab on this page.

Best,
Patrick

Patrick H. Edwards * Supervisor of Production
International Ocean Discovery Program * JOIDES Resolution Science Operator
Texas A University * 1000 Discovery Drive * College Station TX  77845-9547
979 845 1172 * edwa...@iodp.tamu.edu<mailto:edwa...@iodp.tamu.edu>


From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Simon BUCH
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 10:17 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 
; Tammy Van Boening 

Subject: Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?

Hello Tammy, "Standard" with Windows? I find that Microsoft will make changes 
to their Windows and Office offerings as they want to, and Adobe tends to 
supply few and fewer fonts with every product release. For example, Microsoft 
recently changed
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart
This Message Is From an External Sender
This message came from outside your organization.
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd

Hello Tammy,



"Standard" with Windows?   I find that Microsoft will make changes to

their Windows and Office offerings as they want to, and Adobe tends to

supply few and fewer fonts with every product release. For example,

Microsoft recently changed the default Office font from Calibri to Aptos.



Fonts that come with Windows are not the same as fonts that are supplied

when Microsoft Office is installed.

One good example of this is "Arial".  When some versions of Office were

installed, Arial got a "Unicode MS" variant which had many more font

glyphs than the original Arial. This would sometimes cause problems when

Word documents were shared with users who didn't have the extra fonts

installed.





I would suggest to specify a font the customer wants, regardless of what

Microsoft specifies.

This way you/customer can choose which fonts to use, but also determine

under which license the fonts are available.

 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto/about?query=roboto__;!!KwNVnqRv!DYs1ePN8HurXYOPW-pEt8jqcHIAe89n0fW2HEeWZvDJQo3bSWNf6eigcQgkYE9fomFWJ6vAVeB7pM_UIS6nqWxg$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto/about?query=roboto__;!!KwNVnqRv!DYs1ePN8HurXYOPW-pEt8jqcHIAe89n0fW2HEeWZvDJQo3bSWNf6eigcQgkYE9fomFWJ6vAVeB7pM_UIS6nqWxg$>





Regards

/// Simon BUCH









On 21/03/2024 14:02, Tammy Van Boening wrote:

> OK all,

> I am doing a major overhaul on an existing template for a client. I very much 
> like the San serif fonts of Eurostile or Roboto, but I really don't want to 
> break my cardinal rule of using proprietary fonts that have to be embedded in 
> the final PDF. I really would like to be able to use a font that comes 
> standard with windows, but which font, in your opinion, that comes standard 
> with windows would be the closest to either of these two fonts?

>

> My client saw a template that I was working on for another project and really 
> commented that they liked the look of the Roboto font and then I showed him 
> one with the EUROSTILE font and they like that one just as much. That said, I 
> don't wanna leave my client with  having to deal with fonts in their source 
> files.

> Thanks!

> Tammy

>

> Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.

> ___

>

> This message is from the Framers mailing list

>

> Send messages to 
> framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>

> Visit the list's homepage at  
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.frameusers.com__;!!KwNVnqRv!DYs1ePN8HurXYOPW-pEt8jqcHIAe89n0fW2HEeWZvDJQo3bSWNf6eigcQgkYE9fomFWJ6vAVeB7pM_UIvj3qips$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.frameusers.com__;!!KwNVnqRv!DYs1ePN8HurXYOPW-pEt8jqcHIAe89n0fW2HEeWZvDJQo3bSWNf6eigcQgkYE9fomFWJ6vAVeB7pM_UIvj3qips$>

> Archives located at 
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> Send administrative questions to 
> listad...@frameusers.com<mailto:listad...@frameusers.com>



__

Re: [Framers] San Serif Font?

[Simon BUCH]

Hello Tammy,

"Standard" with Windows?   I find that Microsoft will make changes to 
their Windows and Office offerings as they want to, and Adobe tends to 
supply few and fewer fonts with every product release. For example, 
Microsoft recently changed the default Office font from Calibri to Aptos.


Fonts that come with Windows are not the same as fonts that are supplied 
when Microsoft Office is installed.
One good example of this is "Arial".  When some versions of Office were 
installed, Arial got a "Unicode MS" variant which had many more font 
glyphs than the original Arial. This would sometimes cause problems when 
Word documents were shared with users who didn't have the extra fonts 
installed.



I would suggest to specify a font the customer wants, regardless of what 
Microsoft specifies.
This way you/customer can choose which fonts to use, but also determine 
under which license the fonts are available.

    https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto/about?query=roboto


Regards
/// Simon BUCH




On 21/03/2024 14:02, Tammy Van Boening wrote:

OK all,
I am doing a major overhaul on an existing template for a client. I very much 
like the San serif fonts of Eurostile or Roboto, but I really don’t want to 
break my cardinal rule of using proprietary fonts that have to be embedded in 
the final PDF. I really would like to be able to use a font that comes standard 
with windows, but which font, in your opinion, that comes standard with windows 
would be the closest to either of these two fonts?

My client saw a template that I was working on for another project and really 
commented that they liked the look of the Roboto font and then I showed him one 
with the EUROSTILE font and they like that one just as much. That said, I don’t 
wanna leave my client with  having to deal with fonts in their source files.
Thanks!
Tammy

Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
___

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Re: [Framers] Can variables be defined to include characteristics (e.g., BOLD, OVERLINE, ITALIC)?

[rick]

Yes, as long as you define the desired formatting as FrameMaker Character
Formats. Then you can refer to them in your variable definitions inside of
angled brackets; for example:

Widget

The  is a shortcut for Default Paragraph Font.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of barry.meis...@nuvoton.com
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2024 7:05 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Can variables be defined to include characteristics
(e.g., BOLD, OVERLINE, ITALIC)?

Greetings.
In a FM variable definition, is it possible to include character
characteristics such as bold, overline, italic, etc.?
Thanks in advance...
Barry Meislin
PS. I'm running FM version 16.03.979 / PDF version 11.0.2017
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Re: [Framers] Back on Structured XML - stuck again

[rick]

Hi C2,

There are some fun things here, but I suggest that you post this on the
Adobe Community Forum for FrameMaker (forums.adobe.com, then search for
FrameMaker). There is not much action on this list anymore and I spend most
of my help time on the FrameMaker forum. I have some ideas that I will
respond with. Thanks.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of cuc tu
Sent: Friday, March 1, 2024 4:52 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Back on Structured XML - stuck again

Hey all - it's been a long while since even using FrameMaker.

Quick Background:

The dev team supplies XML with most of the para content in element
attributes. I have an xsl script that breaks all those attributes as child
elements. I did this because I could not figure out how to get the attribute
values to print to a para format and use prefix/suffix rules.

Now the team is manually inserting line breaks and using /n to indicate a
soft return, but when read into FM, the /n prints and we a block of text. Is
there a way to address this in the xsl or RW rules?

The next question is with variables. A child element will make reference to
element values in another file. For example:

..$[Min]:$[Max]

There is a declaration in the main xml file:



  

(side note: my xsl will convert the above attributes to child elements, and
then my RW rules drop all of those elements for now so they do not add empty
space)

and there is a Variables.xml file:


..
..
..
..


How do I populate $[Min]:$[Max] with 1:4096?


The last item, the  element above uses a prefix "Range:". I can apply
character formatting Bold, but what I really want to do is have "Range:" in
a right-aligned heading RunIn para format and then print the range value as
an indented format. The reason is that I can then have all of the colons
lined up for easier reading as I would many different heading RunIn texts.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks C2
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Re: [Framers] FrameMaker 2019 and the limit of Windows 10?

[Simon BUCH]

Hello,

Since my last email on this subject, I discovered that the Adobe 
ExtendScript application is still a 32-bit application, and there are 
times when a regular file Open() function call will just error.


After a great deal of investigation, we have determined the cause of the 
crash was due to the FrameMaker console window being closed.
I have always promoted that console windows should *never* be closed as 
warnings are there for a reason!



Regards
/// Simon BUCH



On 16/02/2024 13:42, r...@rickquatro.com wrote:

Hi Simon,

FrameMaker 2019 shipped with 32- and 64-bit versions. I don't know what
version you are using, but the 64-bit version might work.

Since you are using ExtendScript, an alternative approach may be to script
saving each component to XML individually then use XSLT to combine them.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Simon BUCH
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2024 7:20 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] FrameMaker 2019 and the limit of Windows 10?

Hello Framers,

I have been investigating a problem reported by one of my customers.
They have 1 book file containing 1554 FrameMaker documents, plus 2
FrameMaker generated documents.

They have managed to publish their book file to PDF, but when they try
exporting the book to XML, FrameMaker crashes badly.

I have chopped the book up, and it appears that FrameMaker baulks after
processing around 700 files - sometimes with Internal Error, sometimes with
just hanging the app. A large number [>1400] of the FrameMaker documents
contain imported by reference graphics. Even with removing the mount point
of the graphics [so FrameMaker will show a gray box instead], and also with
setting the View > Hide Graphics option on each file,

I tried using ExtendScript to read content from each of the files, but after
approximately 710 files, I received the FrameMaker warning dialog:
Insufficient memory to display the dialog box. Close one or more windows and
try again.
i.e. Insufficient memory to display the dialog box. Close one or more
windows and try again.

According to Windows 10 [64-bit], the Task Manager indicates memory usage on
the workstation is 3.6Gb out of an available 12.1Gb.

Has anyone here experienced problems when dealing with such large book
files?


/// Simon BUCH

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Re: [Framers] FrameMaker 2019 and the limit of Windows 10?

[Simon BUCH]

Hello Rick,

Thank you for the quick response.
I have checked, and I am using the 64-bit version of Adobe FrameMaker 2019.

My company's software uses the Frame FDK to connect with FrameMaker.

I have deliberately disabled the software "plugin" to troubleshoot the 
behaviour in structured mode FrameMaker, but as I can't even process all 
the files in the book, I suspect there is a system limit.



Regards
/// Simon



On 16/02/2024 13:42, r...@rickquatro.com wrote:

Hi Simon,

FrameMaker 2019 shipped with 32- and 64-bit versions. I don't know what
version you are using, but the 64-bit version might work.

Since you are using ExtendScript, an alternative approach may be to script
saving each component to XML individually then use XSLT to combine them.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Simon BUCH
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2024 7:20 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] FrameMaker 2019 and the limit of Windows 10?

Hello Framers,

I have been investigating a problem reported by one of my customers.
They have 1 book file containing 1554 FrameMaker documents, plus 2
FrameMaker generated documents.

They have managed to publish their book file to PDF, but when they try
exporting the book to XML, FrameMaker crashes badly.

I have chopped the book up, and it appears that FrameMaker baulks after
processing around 700 files - sometimes with Internal Error, sometimes with
just hanging the app. A large number [>1400] of the FrameMaker documents
contain imported by reference graphics. Even with removing the mount point
of the graphics [so FrameMaker will show a gray box instead], and also with
setting the View > Hide Graphics option on each file,

I tried using ExtendScript to read content from each of the files, but after
approximately 710 files, I received the FrameMaker warning dialog:
Insufficient memory to display the dialog box. Close one or more windows and
try again.
i.e. Insufficient memory to display the dialog box. Close one or more
windows and try again.

According to Windows 10 [64-bit], the Task Manager indicates memory usage on
the workstation is 3.6Gb out of an available 12.1Gb.

Has anyone here experienced problems when dealing with such large book
files?


/// Simon BUCH

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Re: [Framers] FrameMaker 2019 and the limit of Windows 10?

[rick]

Hi Simon,

FrameMaker 2019 shipped with 32- and 64-bit versions. I don't know what
version you are using, but the 64-bit version might work.

Since you are using ExtendScript, an alternative approach may be to script
saving each component to XML individually then use XSLT to combine them.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Simon BUCH
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2024 7:20 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] FrameMaker 2019 and the limit of Windows 10?

Hello Framers,

I have been investigating a problem reported by one of my customers.
They have 1 book file containing 1554 FrameMaker documents, plus 2
FrameMaker generated documents.

They have managed to publish their book file to PDF, but when they try
exporting the book to XML, FrameMaker crashes badly.

I have chopped the book up, and it appears that FrameMaker baulks after
processing around 700 files - sometimes with Internal Error, sometimes with
just hanging the app. A large number [>1400] of the FrameMaker documents
contain imported by reference graphics. Even with removing the mount point
of the graphics [so FrameMaker will show a gray box instead], and also with
setting the View > Hide Graphics option on each file,

I tried using ExtendScript to read content from each of the files, but after
approximately 710 files, I received the FrameMaker warning dialog:
Insufficient memory to display the dialog box. Close one or more windows and
try again.
i.e. Insufficient memory to display the dialog box. Close one or more
windows and try again.

According to Windows 10 [64-bit], the Task Manager indicates memory usage on
the workstation is 3.6Gb out of an available 12.1Gb.

Has anyone here experienced problems when dealing with such large book
files?


/// Simon BUCH

___

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Re: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy

[Julie A. Sigrist]

Yes, there are, and Rick did a much better job explaining the issue. Thanks, 
Rick.

Julie Sigrist
Quality Assurance Associate Writer
Airborne Maintenance & Engineering Services
Cell 513-607-1444
145 Hunter Dr. l Wilmington, OH l 45177
www.airbornemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com>
[cid:image001.png@01DA5FDE.95E3E590]<http://www.airbornemx.com/>

From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 4:17 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy

Hi All,

Here is the link as no information that identifies my client or this 
information for them is shown in the video. And Julie S., I think this is what 
you were describing to me. Brilliant minds on this list.

https://youtu.be/VGcibNwQ0EU<https://youtu.be/VGcibNwQ0EU>



Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com>>
>  On Behalf
> Of r...@rickquatro.com<mailto:r...@rickquatro.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 9:49 AM
> To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'
> mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy
>
> Hi Tammy,
>
> I am sending you a video link that I think shows the solution. It is a 
> private link
> because I am not sure if the content of your file should be shared. If my
> solution is correct, perhaps you can share it with the list.
>
> Rick
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+rick=rickquatro@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+rick=rickquatro@lists.frameusers.com>>
>  On Behalf Of Tammy
> Van Boening
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 11:40 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy
>
> Hi Klaus,
>
> Yes, I understand that. So how do I break the flow and be able to start adding
> new content after the last footnote in the series?
>
> Thanks!
>
> TVB
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com>>
> >  On
> Behalf
> > Of Klaus Daube
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 6:46 AM
> > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> > Subject: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy
> >
> > {table footnote, no matter what type of tag I select with point and
> > click, and then press enter to start a new line and start another tag,
> > it s like the hold ofated the table footnote will not go away. It s
> > like FrameMaker won t let me start any new tag after a table footnote.
> > It s stuck thinking everything that follows should be kept with the
> > table footnotes } Please keep in mind that a footnote/table footnote is a 
> > flow
> (terminated by §)!
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to 
> > framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com> Visit the 
> > list's
> > homepage at http://www.frameusers.com<http://www.frameusers.com> Archives 
> > located at
> > http://www.mail-<http://www.mail-> 
> > archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/<http://archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com>
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-<http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers->
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> > listad...@frameusers.com<mailto:listad...@frameusers.com>
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> Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
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Re: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy

[Tammy Van Boening]

Hi All,

Here is the link as no information that identifies my client or this 
information for them is shown in the video. And Julie S., I think this is what 
you were describing to me. Brilliant minds on this list.

https://youtu.be/VGcibNwQ0EU



Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of r...@rickquatro.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 9:49 AM
> To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy
> 
> Hi Tammy,
> 
> I am sending you a video link that I think shows the solution. It is a 
> private link
> because I am not sure if the content of your file should be shared. If my
> solution is correct, perhaps you can share it with the list.
> 
> Rick
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+rick=rickquatro@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Tammy
> Van Boening
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 11:40 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy
> 
> Hi Klaus,
> 
> Yes, I understand that. So how do I break the flow and be able to start adding
> new content after the last footnote in the series?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> TVB
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> Behalf
> > Of Klaus Daube
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 6:46 AM
> > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Subject: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy
> >
> > {table footnote, no matter what type of tag I select with point and
> > click, and then press enter to start a new line and start another tag,
> > it s like the hold ofated the table footnote will not go away. It s
> > like FrameMaker won t let me start any new tag after a table footnote.
> > It s stuck thinking everything that follows should be kept with the
> > table footnotes } Please keep in mind that a footnote/table footnote is a 
> > flow
> (terminated by §)!
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
> > homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> > http://www.mail- archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-
> > frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at
> http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-
> archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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> frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
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> ___
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Re: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy

[rick]

Hi Tammy,

I am sending you a video link that I think shows the solution. It is a private 
link because I am not sure if the content of your file should be shared. If my 
solution is correct, perhaps you can share it with the list.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 11:40 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy

Hi Klaus,

Yes, I understand that. So how do I break the flow and be able to start adding 
new content after the last footnote in the series?

Thanks!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Klaus Daube
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 6:46 AM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy
> 
> {table footnote, no matter what type of tag I select with point and 
> click, and then press enter to start a new line and start another tag, 
> it s like the hold ofated the table footnote will not go away. It s 
> like FrameMaker won t let me start any new tag after a table footnote. 
> It s stuck thinking everything that follows should be kept with the 
> table footnotes } Please keep in mind that a footnote/table footnote is a 
> flow (terminated by §)!
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
> homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
> http://www.mail- archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-
> frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy

[Tammy Van Boening]

Hi Klaus,

Yes, I understand that. So how do I break the flow and be able to start adding 
new content after the last footnote in the series?

Thanks!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Klaus Daube
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 6:46 AM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: [Framers] Footnote problem Tamy
> 
> {table footnote, no matter what type of tag I select with point and click, and
> then press enter to start a new line and start another tag, it s like the hold
> ofated the table footnote will not go away. It s like FrameMaker won t let me
> start any new tag after a table footnote. It s stuck thinking everything that
> follows should be kept with the table footnotes } Please keep in mind that a
> footnote/table footnote is a flow (terminated by §)!
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at
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Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[Tammy Van Boening]

I >>THINK<< that I understand. I will give this a shot if something else 
doesn't work.

Thanks!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Julie A. Sigrist
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 6:14 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> 
> I noticed that when adding footnotes that each paragraph has an End of flow
> symbol. To break from that I had to find the original End of flow symbol for 
> my
> document and work from there. When testing, I inserted the table at the End
> of Flow symbol and had to go above the table to find that symbol and put my
> return in at that point.
> 
> Not sure if I explained this correctly, but hopefully it might help.
> 
> Julie Sigrist
> Quality Assurance Associate Writer
> Airborne Maintenance & Engineering Services Cell 513-607-1444
> 145 Hunter Dr. l Wilmington, OH l 45177
> www.airbornemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com>
> [cid:image001.png@01DA5E54.4D092640]<http://www.airbornemx.com/>
> 
> From: Framers  bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of
> Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 6:48 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> 
> I might give this a try!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> TVB
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  >
> bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bo
> u
> > bounces+nces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com>>
> On
> > bounces+Behalf
> > Of acr...@shaw.ca<mailto:acr...@shaw.ca>
> > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 3:38 PM
> > To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'
> > mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> >
> > What about creating the next heading level *before* adding the footnotes?
> > Possibly with the extra pilcrow after the table as an added buffer?
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers
> > mailto:framers-
> bo
> > unces+acraig=shaw...@lists.frameusers.com>> On Behalf Of Tammy Van
> > Boening
> > Sent: February 12, 2024 1:43 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> >
> > Hi Dan,
> > Yeah I ve tried that too and I m just at my wit s end. After I hit a
> > return from the last table footnote, no matter what type of tag I
> > select with point and click, and then press enter to start a new line
> > and start another tag, it s like the hold of the table footnote will
> > not go away. It s like FrameMaker won t let me start any new tag after
> > a table footnote. It s stuck thinking everything that follows should
> > be kept with the table footnotes
> >
> > I ve given up for now and have just manually numbered the footnotes
> > because there s only four of them and there s no expectation that they ll
> change at all.
> > However, I still would like to know why after a table footnote when
> > you hit return, and then try to point and click and setting new tag at
> > the pilcrow, Framemaker isn t recognizing the new tag s properties. It
> > appears to stay stuck in table footnote mode.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > TVB
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
> >
> > > On Feb 12, 2024, at 1:55 PM, Harding, Dan
> mailto:dhard...@illinois.edu>> wrote:
> > >
> > > ?Poor man's workaround: what about putting an empty paragraph after
> > > the
> > final footnote and THEN the paragraph style that is tagged to start a
> > new page? Whatever is clinging to the final footnote may stick with
> > the empty paragraph rather than the paragraph starting the next page.
> > >
> > > Not elegant, I realize, but...
> > >
> > > -Dan
> > > ___
> > >
> > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > >
> > > Send messages to
> > > framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@

Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[Tammy Van Boening]

Yep, that rings a dull thud to me as well . . . I might look into that. 


Thanks!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of loui...@mchsi.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 4:51 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> 
> Also, I "kind of" remember that you can set the footnotes to appear in the 
> last
> row of the table, instead of after it? (Sorry, I don't have Frame loaded and 
> it's
> been a few years.) Louise
> 
> **
> 
> Hi - are the footnotes near the bottom of the page? Try expanding the page's
> text frame and see if that does anything.
> OR
> Does the table have a lot of space after it that's constraining it?
> OR
> Select the page's text frame and do a ctrl-a. Maybe there's an errant box or
> frame on the page.
> 
> Good luck -
> 
> Louise Kaufman
> loui...@mchsi.com
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Tammy Van Boening 
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Sent: Mon, 12 Feb 2024 16:42:34 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> 
> Hi Dan,
> Yeah I’ve tried that too and I’m just at my wit’s end. After I hit a return 
> from
> the last table footnote, no matter what type of tag I select with point and 
> click,
> and then press enter to start a new line and start another tag, it’s like the 
> hold
> of the table footnote will not go away. It’s like FrameMaker won’t let me 
> start
> any new tag after a table footnote. It’s stuck thinking everything that 
> follows
> should be kept with the table footnotes
> 
> I’ve given up for now and have just manually numbered the footnotes
> because there’s only four of them and there’s no expectation that they’ll
> change at all. However, I still would like to know why after a table footnote
> when you hit return, and then try to point and click and setting new tag at 
> the
> pilcrow, Framemaker isn’t recognizing the new tag‘s properties. It appears to
> stay stuck in table footnote mode.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> TVB
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
> 
> > On Feb 12, 2024, at 1:55 PM, Harding, Dan  wrote:
> >
> > Poor man's workaround: what about putting an empty paragraph after the
> final footnote and THEN the paragraph style that is tagged to start a new
> page? Whatever is clinging to the final footnote may stick with the empty
> paragraph rather than the paragraph starting the next page.
> >
> > Not elegant, I realize, but...
> >
> > -Dan
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
> > homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at
> http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-
> archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-
> frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> 
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at
> http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-
> archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-
> frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> 
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at
> http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-
> archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[Julie A. Sigrist]

I noticed that when adding footnotes that each paragraph has an End of flow 
symbol. To break from that I had to find the original End of flow symbol for my 
document and work from there. When testing, I inserted the table at the End of 
Flow symbol and had to go above the table to find that symbol and put my return 
in at that point.

Not sure if I explained this correctly, but hopefully it might help.

Julie Sigrist
Quality Assurance Associate Writer
Airborne Maintenance & Engineering Services
Cell 513-607-1444
145 Hunter Dr. l Wilmington, OH l 45177
www.airbornemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com>
[cid:image001.png@01DA5E54.4D092640]<http://www.airbornemx.com/>

From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 6:48 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

I might give this a try!

Thanks!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com>>
>  On Behalf
> Of acr...@shaw.ca<mailto:acr...@shaw.ca>
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 3:38 PM
> To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'
> mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
>
> What about creating the next heading level *before* adding the footnotes?
> Possibly with the extra pilcrow after the table as an added buffer?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=shaw...@lists.frameusers.com>>
>  On
> Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: February 12, 2024 1:43 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
>
> Hi Dan,
> Yeah I ve tried that too and I m just at my wit s end. After I hit a return 
> from
> the last table footnote, no matter what type of tag I select with point and 
> click,
> and then press enter to start a new line and start another tag, it s like the 
> hold
> of the table footnote will not go away. It s like FrameMaker won t let me 
> start
> any new tag after a table footnote. It s stuck thinking everything that 
> follows
> should be kept with the table footnotes
>
> I ve given up for now and have just manually numbered the footnotes because
> there s only four of them and there s no expectation that they ll change at 
> all.
> However, I still would like to know why after a table footnote when you hit
> return, and then try to point and click and setting new tag at the pilcrow,
> Framemaker isn t recognizing the new tag s properties. It appears to stay 
> stuck
> in table footnote mode.
>
> Thank you!
>
> TVB
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
>
> > On Feb 12, 2024, at 1:55 PM, Harding, Dan 
> > mailto:dhard...@illinois.edu>> wrote:
> >
> > ?Poor man's workaround: what about putting an empty paragraph after the
> final footnote and THEN the paragraph style that is tagged to start a new
> page? Whatever is clinging to the final footnote may stick with the empty
> paragraph rather than the paragraph starting the next page.
> >
> > Not elegant, I realize, but...
> >
> > -Dan
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to 
> > framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com> Visit the 
> > list's
> > homepage at http://www.frameusers.com<http://www.frameusers.com> Archives 
> > located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/<http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com>
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com<http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com>
> > Send administrative questions to 
> > listad...@frameusers.com<mailto:listad...@frameusers.com>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to 
> framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com> Visit the 
> list's homepage at
> http://www.frameusers.com<http://www.frameusers.com> Archives located at 
> http://www.mail-<http://www.mail->
> archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/<http://archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com>
> Subscribe and

Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[louisek]

Also, I "kind of" remember that you can set the footnotes to appear in the last 
row of the table, instead of after it? (Sorry, I don't have Frame loaded and 
it's been a few years.)
Louise

**

Hi - are the footnotes near the bottom of the page? Try expanding the page's 
text frame and see if that does anything. 
OR
Does the table have a lot of space after it that's constraining it?
OR
Select the page's text frame and do a ctrl-a. Maybe there's an errant box or 
frame on the page.

Good luck -

Louise Kaufman
loui...@mchsi.com

- Original Message -
From: Tammy Van Boening 
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Sent: Mon, 12 Feb 2024 16:42:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

Hi Dan,
Yeah I’ve tried that too and I’m just at my wit’s end. After I hit a return 
from the last table footnote, no matter what type of tag I select with point 
and click, and then press enter to start a new line and start another tag, it’s 
like the hold of the table footnote will not go away. It’s like FrameMaker 
won’t let me start any new tag after a table footnote. It’s stuck thinking 
everything that follows should be kept with the table footnotes

I’ve given up for now and have just manually numbered the footnotes because 
there’s only four of them and there’s no expectation that they’ll change at 
all. However, I still would like to know why after a table footnote when you 
hit return, and then try to point and click and setting new tag at the pilcrow, 
Framemaker isn’t recognizing the new tag‘s properties. It appears to stay stuck 
in table footnote mode.

Thank you!

TVB


Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.

> On Feb 12, 2024, at 1:55 PM, Harding, Dan  wrote:
> 
> Poor man's workaround: what about putting an empty paragraph after the final 
> footnote and THEN the paragraph style that is tagged to start a new page? 
> Whatever is clinging to the final footnote may stick with the empty paragraph 
> rather than the paragraph starting the next page.
> 
> Not elegant, I realize, but...
> 
> -Dan
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
___

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Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[louisek]

Hi - are the footnotes near the bottom of the page? Try expanding the page's 
text frame and see if that does anything. 
OR
Does the table have a lot of space after it that's constraining it?
OR
Select the page's text frame and do a ctrl-a. Maybe there's an errant box or 
frame on the page.

Good luck -

Louise Kaufman
loui...@mchsi.com

- Original Message -
From: Tammy Van Boening 
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Sent: Mon, 12 Feb 2024 16:42:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

Hi Dan,
Yeah I’ve tried that too and I’m just at my wit’s end. After I hit a return 
from the last table footnote, no matter what type of tag I select with point 
and click, and then press enter to start a new line and start another tag, it’s 
like the hold of the table footnote will not go away. It’s like FrameMaker 
won’t let me start any new tag after a table footnote. It’s stuck thinking 
everything that follows should be kept with the table footnotes

I’ve given up for now and have just manually numbered the footnotes because 
there’s only four of them and there’s no expectation that they’ll change at 
all. However, I still would like to know why after a table footnote when you 
hit return, and then try to point and click and setting new tag at the pilcrow, 
Framemaker isn’t recognizing the new tag‘s properties. It appears to stay stuck 
in table footnote mode.

Thank you!

TVB


Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.

> On Feb 12, 2024, at 1:55 PM, Harding, Dan  wrote:
> 
> Poor man's workaround: what about putting an empty paragraph after the final 
> footnote and THEN the paragraph style that is tagged to start a new page? 
> Whatever is clinging to the final footnote may stick with the empty paragraph 
> rather than the paragraph starting the next page.
> 
> Not elegant, I realize, but...
> 
> -Dan
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
___

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Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[Tammy Van Boening]

I might give this a try!

Thanks!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of acr...@shaw.ca
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 3:38 PM
> To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> 
> What about creating the next heading level *before* adding the footnotes?
> Possibly with the extra pilcrow after the table as an added buffer?
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  On
> Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: February 12, 2024 1:43 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> 
> Hi Dan,
> Yeah I ve tried that too and I m just at my wit s end. After I hit a return 
> from
> the last table footnote, no matter what type of tag I select with point and 
> click,
> and then press enter to start a new line and start another tag, it s like the 
> hold
> of the table footnote will not go away. It s like FrameMaker won t let me 
> start
> any new tag after a table footnote. It s stuck thinking everything that 
> follows
> should be kept with the table footnotes
> 
> I ve given up for now and have just manually numbered the footnotes because
> there s only four of them and there s no expectation that they ll change at 
> all.
> However, I still would like to know why after a table footnote when you hit
> return, and then try to point and click and setting new tag at the pilcrow,
> Framemaker isn t recognizing the new tag s properties. It appears to stay 
> stuck
> in table footnote mode.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> TVB
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
> 
> > On Feb 12, 2024, at 1:55 PM, Harding, Dan  wrote:
> >
> > ?Poor man's workaround: what about putting an empty paragraph after the
> final footnote and THEN the paragraph style that is tagged to start a new
> page? Whatever is clinging to the final footnote may stick with the empty
> paragraph rather than the paragraph starting the next page.
> >
> > Not elegant, I realize, but...
> >
> > -Dan
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
> > homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at
> http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-
> archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-
> frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-
> archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-
> frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[Tammy Van Boening]

 Yep, I tried a page break and the tag doesn't have a Keep w/ 
Next element either. 



Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Dennis Hays
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 3:47 PM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> 
> 
>Did you try to put a Page Break after the extra line following the
>footnote, and does that carry the last footnote to the next page?
>Also, look ar the Paragraph tag and see if there is an erroneous 'Keep
>with next' element.
>Dennis
> 
>--
>Dennis Hays
>Quantum Mechanic
>+1 518.779.2322
> 
>On Monday, Feb 12, 2024 at 4:42 PM, Tammy Van Boening
><[1]tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
>Hi Dan,
>Yeah I’ve tried that too and I’m just at my wit’s end. After I hit a
>return from the last table footnote, no matter what type of tag I
>select with point and click, and then press enter to start a new line
>and start another tag, it’s like the hold of the table footnote will
>not go away. It’s like FrameMaker won’t let me start any new tag after
>a table footnote. It’s stuck thinking everything that follows should be
>kept with the table footnotes
>I’ve given up for now and have just manually numbered the footnotes
>because there’s only four of them and there’s no expectation that
>they’ll change at all. However, I still would like to know why after a
>table footnote when you hit return, and then try to point and click and
>setting new tag at the pilcrow, Framemaker isn’t recognizing the new
>tag‘s properties. It appears to stay stuck in table footnote mode.
>Thank you!
>TVB
>Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
> 
>  On Feb 12, 2024, at 1:55 PM, Harding, Dan 
>  wrote:
>  Poor man's workaround: what about putting an empty paragraph after
>  the final footnote and THEN the paragraph style that is tagged to
>  start a new page? Whatever is clinging to the final footnote may
>  stick with the empty paragraph rather than the paragraph starting
>  the next page.
>  Not elegant, I realize, but...
>  -Dan
>  ___
>  This message is from the Framers mailing list
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> the
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>the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.comArchives located at
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>administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> 
> 
> [66F8592229221498463ACC738E629823_0997D83F4DB1E192FF545DADD
> 55D0477.png]
> 
> References
> 
>1. mailto:tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com
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Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[Dennis Hays]

   Did you try to put a Page Break after the extra line following the
   footnote, and does that carry the last footnote to the next page?
   Also, look ar the Paragraph tag and see if there is an erroneous 'Keep
   with next' element.
   Dennis

   --
   Dennis Hays
   Quantum Mechanic
   +1 518.779.2322

   On Monday, Feb 12, 2024 at 4:42 PM, Tammy Van Boening
   <[1]tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
   Hi Dan,
   Yeah I’ve tried that too and I’m just at my wit’s end. After I hit a
   return from the last table footnote, no matter what type of tag I
   select with point and click, and then press enter to start a new line
   and start another tag, it’s like the hold of the table footnote will
   not go away. It’s like FrameMaker won’t let me start any new tag after
   a table footnote. It’s stuck thinking everything that follows should be
   kept with the table footnotes
   I’ve given up for now and have just manually numbered the footnotes
   because there’s only four of them and there’s no expectation that
   they’ll change at all. However, I still would like to know why after a
   table footnote when you hit return, and then try to point and click and
   setting new tag at the pilcrow, Framemaker isn’t recognizing the new
   tag‘s properties. It appears to stay stuck in table footnote mode.
   Thank you!
   TVB
   Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.

 On Feb 12, 2024, at 1:55 PM, Harding, Dan 
 wrote:
 Poor man's workaround: what about putting an empty paragraph after
 the final footnote and THEN the paragraph style that is tagged to
 start a new page? Whatever is clinging to the final footnote may
 stick with the empty paragraph rather than the paragraph starting
 the next page.
 Not elegant, I realize, but...
 -Dan
 ___
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   [66F8592229221498463ACC738E629823_0997D83F4DB1E192FF545DADD55D0477.png]

References

   1. mailto:tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com
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Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[acraig]

What about creating the next heading level *before* adding the footnotes? 
Possibly with the extra pilcrow after the table as an added buffer?



-Original Message-
From: Framers  On Behalf 
Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: February 12, 2024 1:43 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

Hi Dan,
Yeah I ve tried that too and I m just at my wit s end. After I hit a return 
from the last table footnote, no matter what type of tag I select with point 
and click, and then press enter to start a new line and start another tag, it s 
like the hold of the table footnote will not go away. It s like FrameMaker won 
t let me start any new tag after a table footnote. It s stuck thinking 
everything that follows should be kept with the table footnotes

I ve given up for now and have just manually numbered the footnotes because 
there s only four of them and there s no expectation that they ll change at 
all. However, I still would like to know why after a table footnote when you 
hit return, and then try to point and click and setting new tag at the pilcrow, 
Framemaker isn t recognizing the new tag s properties. It appears to stay stuck 
in table footnote mode.

Thank you!

TVB


Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.

> On Feb 12, 2024, at 1:55 PM, Harding, Dan  wrote:
> 
> ?Poor man's workaround: what about putting an empty paragraph after the final 
> footnote and THEN the paragraph style that is tagged to start a new page? 
> Whatever is clinging to the final footnote may stick with the empty paragraph 
> rather than the paragraph starting the next page.
> 
> Not elegant, I realize, but...
> 
> -Dan
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
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Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[Tammy Van Boening]

Hi Dan,
Yeah I’ve tried that too and I’m just at my wit’s end. After I hit a return 
from the last table footnote, no matter what type of tag I select with point 
and click, and then press enter to start a new line and start another tag, it’s 
like the hold of the table footnote will not go away. It’s like FrameMaker 
won’t let me start any new tag after a table footnote. It’s stuck thinking 
everything that follows should be kept with the table footnotes

I’ve given up for now and have just manually numbered the footnotes because 
there’s only four of them and there’s no expectation that they’ll change at 
all. However, I still would like to know why after a table footnote when you 
hit return, and then try to point and click and setting new tag at the pilcrow, 
Framemaker isn’t recognizing the new tag‘s properties. It appears to stay stuck 
in table footnote mode.

Thank you!

TVB


Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.

> On Feb 12, 2024, at 1:55 PM, Harding, Dan  wrote:
> 
> Poor man's workaround: what about putting an empty paragraph after the final 
> footnote and THEN the paragraph style that is tagged to start a new page? 
> Whatever is clinging to the final footnote may stick with the empty paragraph 
> rather than the paragraph starting the next page.
> 
> Not elegant, I realize, but...
> 
> -Dan
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[Harding, Dan]

Poor man's workaround: what about putting an empty paragraph after the final 
footnote and THEN the paragraph style that is tagged to start a new page? 
Whatever is clinging to the final footnote may stick with the empty paragraph 
rather than the paragraph starting the next page.

Not elegant, I realize, but...

-Dan
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Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[Thomas Bain]

Maybe I'm missing something, but have you tried placing the cursor in the
paragraph that has the anchor for the table, after the anchor, and pressing
Enter? 

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 15:36
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

Hi Julie,

Great thought, but nope.  It's not marked as Keep with Previous or Keep with
Next. I know it has something to do w/ how FM handles table footnotes and
wanting to keep them all together at the bottom of the table and it's really
quirky and I used to know how to get around it, but for the life of me, I
can't remember! 

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Julie A. Sigrist
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 1:26 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> 
> I do not use footnotes so this may not even apply, but is there a 
> chance a paragraph tag is set to keep with next paragraph?
> 
> Julie Sigrist
> Quality Assurance Associate Writer
> Airborne Maintenance & Engineering Services Cell 513-607-1444
> 145 Hunter Dr. l Wilmington, OH l 45177 
> www.airbornemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com>
> [cid:image001.png@01DA5DC7.CF4631D0]<http://www.airbornemx.com/>
> 
> From: Framers  bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf 
> bounces+Of
> Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 2:49 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> 
> So, I hope I can adequately describe the situation I am trying to 
> resolve. I have a table w/ a set table format (I call it 
> FieldTable_Title). Each of the column headers in this one instance of the
table has to have a footnote reference.
> There are 4 table columns, hence, four table footnotes. I have used 
> the Table Footnote feature to insert the automatically numbered 
> footnotes and yes, they do go after the table. Here's the rub: After 
> the 4th footnote, I want to start a new page of content. I hit the 
> Enter key at the end of the last table footnote and at the pilcrow, I 
> click HeadLev1 in my paragraph catalog to start w/ the new content 
> (and this tag is set to start on new page) and instead of a clean 
> break from the Table Footnotes, the last table footnote is brought 
> over to the top of the next page and AFTER this last table footnote, I 
> get the placeholder for HeadLev1. I have tried 8 ways from Sunday to 
> figure out how to "break free" from the hold of these Table Footnotes 
> and get a c lean break on starting new text, but everything that I am 
> trying keeps yanking the last footnote over to the next page. It's not
behaving as I expect in FM where after you put in a hard return and then
point and click to change the tag as needed.
> 
> Help!
> 
> TIA!
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com 
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[Tammy Van Boening]

Hi Julie,

Great thought, but nope.  It's not marked as Keep with Previous or Keep with 
Next. I know it has something to do w/ how FM handles table footnotes and 
wanting to keep them all together at the bottom of the table and it's really 
quirky and I used to know how to get around it, but for the life of me, I can't 
remember! 

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Julie A. Sigrist
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 1:26 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> 
> I do not use footnotes so this may not even apply, but is there a chance a
> paragraph tag is set to keep with next paragraph?
> 
> Julie Sigrist
> Quality Assurance Associate Writer
> Airborne Maintenance & Engineering Services Cell 513-607-1444
> 145 Hunter Dr. l Wilmington, OH l 45177
> www.airbornemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com>
> [cid:image001.png@01DA5DC7.CF4631D0]<http://www.airbornemx.com/>
> 
> From: Framers  bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of
> Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 2:49 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Table Footnote question
> 
> So, I hope I can adequately describe the situation I am trying to resolve. I 
> have
> a table w/ a set table format (I call it FieldTable_Title). Each of the column
> headers in this one instance of the table has to have a footnote reference.
> There are 4 table columns, hence, four table footnotes. I have used the Table
> Footnote feature to insert the automatically numbered footnotes and yes,
> they do go after the table. Here's the rub: After the 4th footnote, I want to
> start a new page of content. I hit the Enter key at the end of the last table
> footnote and at the pilcrow, I click HeadLev1 in my paragraph catalog to start
> w/ the new content (and this tag is set to start on new page) and instead of a
> clean break from the Table Footnotes, the last table footnote is brought over
> to the top of the next page and AFTER this last table footnote, I get the
> placeholder for HeadLev1. I have tried 8 ways from Sunday to figure out how
> to "break free" from the hold of these Table Footnotes and get a c lean break
> on starting new text, but everything that I am trying keeps yanking the last
> footnote over to the next page. It's not behaving as I expect in FM where 
> after
> you put in a hard return and then point and click to change the tag as needed.
> 
> Help!
> 
> TIA!
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
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Re: [Framers] Table Footnote question

[Julie A. Sigrist]

I do not use footnotes so this may not even apply, but is there a chance a 
paragraph tag is set to keep with next paragraph?

Julie Sigrist
Quality Assurance Associate Writer
Airborne Maintenance & Engineering Services
Cell 513-607-1444
145 Hunter Dr. l Wilmington, OH l 45177
www.airbornemx.com
[cid:image001.png@01DA5DC7.CF4631D0]

From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 2:49 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: [Framers] Table Footnote question

So, I hope I can adequately describe the situation I am trying to resolve. I 
have a table w/ a set table format (I call it FieldTable_Title). Each of the 
column headers in this one instance of the table has to have a footnote 
reference. There are 4 table columns, hence, four table footnotes. I have used 
the Table Footnote feature to insert the automatically numbered footnotes and 
yes, they do go after the table. Here's the rub: After the 4th footnote, I want 
to start a new page of content. I hit the Enter key at the end of the last 
table footnote and at the pilcrow, I click HeadLev1 in my paragraph catalog to 
start w/ the new content (and this tag is set to start on new page) and instead 
of a clean break from the Table Footnotes, the last table footnote is brought 
over to the top of the next page and AFTER this last table footnote, I get the 
placeholder for HeadLev1. I have tried 8 ways from Sunday to figure out how to 
"break free" from the hold of these Table Footnotes and get a c
lean break on starting new text, but everything that I am trying keeps yanking 
the last footnote over to the next page. It's not behaving as I expect in FM 
where after you put in a hard return and then point and click to change the tag 
as needed.

Help!

TIA!

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com



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Re: [Framers] Single quotation mark in French

[de Rouck, Tom (Zelzate)]

Hello Klaus,

Changing the language into Canadian French did the trick! No more space before 
the omission sign!   D'ailleurs stays d'ailleurs and doesn't become d 'ailleurs.
Until Adobe fixes this, I'm going to write all my French documents in Canadian 
French instead of French.

Thanks a lot!

Best regards,
Tom

Tom De Rouck
Industries & Environment
Technical Assessment & Advisory - Senior Project Manager - Documentation 
Services

Mobile:  +32 (0)476 87 44 33

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: zaterdag 3 februari 2024 22:02
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Framers Digest, Vol 214, Issue 3

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Single quotation mark in French (Klaus Daube)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2024 09:54:25 +0100
From: "Klaus Daube" 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Single quotation mark in French
Message-ID: <65bdff41.25096.48...@klaus.daube.ch>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

On 1 Feb 2024 at 13:56, Simon BUCH wrote:

> It's not a stupid idea. It's standard [traditional] French typography
> rules that specify that a half space is between the guillmet [simple
> or double] and the enclosed text.

However, FM 2022 (aka v17) does not insert a half space, but a "reauired space"
which is of same width as a normal space - imho a little bit to much. In 
Canadian French no space is inserted:



~~~
Klaus Daube Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
Sch?racher 11   Mail:   kl...@daube.ch
CH-8053 Z?rich  Web:http://www.daube.ch/


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End of Framers Digest, Vol 214, Issue 3
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Re: [Framers] Single quotation mark in French

[Klaus Daube]

On 1 Feb 2024 at 13:56, Simon BUCH wrote:

> It's not a stupid idea. It's standard [traditional] French
> typography rules that specify that a half space is between the
> guillmet [simple or double] and the enclosed text.

However, FM 2022 (aka v17) does not insert a half space, but a "reauired space" 
which is of same width as a normal space - imho a little bit to much. In 
Canadian 
French no space is inserted:



~~~
Klaus Daube Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11   Mail:   kl...@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich  Web:www.daube.ch


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Re: [Framers] Single quotation mark in French

[Simon BUCH]

Hello,

MERDE!   that is crap!   [also the Framers mailing list doesn't appear 
to support 'special' characters]


So, are you using the straight single quote - AKA "apostrophe" (U+0027) 
i.e. '
or is FrameMaker using "smart quotes", which gives "curved" left/right 
single quotation marks (U+2018/U+2019) i.e. ‘ ’


What is the option set to in the FrameMaker Edit > Preference + Spelling 
> Smart Quotes section for French language?


There is an Adobe video that demonstrates this option ...
but why doesn't Adobe "document" this in text rather than having to 
watch a video?



Regards
/// Simon BUCH




On 02/02/2024 01:51, de Rouck, Tom (Zelzate) wrote:

Hello Simon,

OK my mistake, I think I should have said "omission sign", not quotation mark.
When "de" and "le/la" are before a vowel it should be l'  right, and not l ' ?
L'amour and not l 'amour.
Je viens d'Espagne and not Je viens d 'Espagne?

(hopefully Outlook is not going to auto-correct my spaces)

Best regards,

Tom De Rouck
Industries & Environment
Technical Assessment & Advisory - Senior Project Manager - Documentation 
Services

Mobile:  +32 (0)476 87 44 33
available on request and accessible at 
https://www.sgs.com/en/terms-and-conditions

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Re: [Framers] Single quotation mark in French

[de Rouck, Tom (Zelzate)]

Hello Simon,

OK my mistake, I think I should have said "omission sign", not quotation mark.
When "de" and "le/la" are before a vowel it should be l'  right, and not l ' ?
L'amour and not l 'amour.
Je viens d'Espagne and not Je viens d 'Espagne?

(hopefully Outlook is not going to auto-correct my spaces)

Best regards,

Tom De Rouck
Industries & Environment
Technical Assessment & Advisory - Senior Project Manager - Documentation 
Services

Mobile:  +32 (0)476 87 44 33

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: donderdag 1 februari 2024 22:01
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Framers Digest, Vol 214, Issue 1

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Contents of Framers digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1.  Single quotation mark in French (de Rouck, Tom (Zelzate))
   2. Re:  Single quotation mark in French (acr...@shaw.ca)
   3. Re:  Single quotation mark in French (Simon BUCH)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2024 08:53:29 +
From: "de Rouck, Tom (Zelzate)" 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: [Framers] Single quotation mark in French
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi everyone,

Who at Adobe suddenly thought it was a good idea to automatically add a hard 
space before a single quotation mark in French, in Framemaker 2022?
Anyone knows how to turn this off?

Merci pour l 'aide (intended)

Best regards,
Tom

Tom De Rouck
Industries & Environment
Technical Assessment & Advisory - Senior Project Manager - Documentation 
Services

SGS Belgium NV
Karnemelkstraat 3
B-9060 - Zelzate

Phone:  +32 (0)9 242 81 77
Mobile:  +32 (0)476 87 44 33
E-mail :   tom.dero...@sgs.com<mailto:tom.dero...@sgs.com>

Information in this email and any attachments is confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed or otherwise 
directed. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are 
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the 
Company. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for 
the presence of viruses. The Company accepts no liability for any damage caused 
by any virus transmitted by this email. All SGS services are rendered in 
accordance with the applicable SGS conditions of service available on request 
and accessible at https://www.sgs.com/en/terms-and-conditions


--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2024 09:50:39 -0800
From: 
To: "'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'"

Subject: Re: [Framers] Single quotation mark in French
Message-ID: <001901da5537$2bbdc430$83394c90$@shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Wow! That's a stupid idea. Hopefully, it's a bug not a feature and will soon be 
fixed.

Alison

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On Behalf 
Of de Rouck, Tom (Zelzate)
Sent: February 1, 2024 12:53 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Single quotation mark in French

Hi everyone,

Who at Adobe suddenly thought it was a good idea to automatically add a hard 
space before a single quotation mark in French, in Framemaker 2022?
Anyone knows how to turn this off?

Merci pour l 'aide (intended)

Best regards,
Tom

Tom De Rouck
Industries & Environment
Technical Assessment & Advisory - Senior Project Manager - Documentation 
Services

SGS Belgium NV
Karnemelkstraat 3
B-9060 - Zelzate

Phone:  +32 (0)9 242 81 77
Mobile:  +32 (0)476 87 44 33
E-mail :   tom.dero...@sgs.com<mailto:tom.dero...@sgs.com>

Information in this email and any attachments is confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed or otherwise 
directed. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are 
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the 
Company. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for 
the presence of viruses. The Company accepts no liability for any damage caused 
by any virus transmitted by this email. All SGS services are rendered in 
accordance with the applicable SGS conditions of service available on request 
and accessible at https://www.sgs.com/en/terms-and-conditions
___

This message is from the 

Re: [Framers] Single quotation mark in French

[Simon BUCH]

Bonjour tout le monde

It's not a stupid idea.  It's standard [traditional] French typography 
rules that specify that a half space is between the guillmet [simple or 
double] and the enclosed text.   Québecois French on the other hand may 
not follow the same rules.


« Vivre la différence! »

You might need to change character tags or paragraph tags to apply no 
language specification.
Alternatively, there may be a text option somewhere located in the 
Format menu ... or wherever Adobe have moved it!



Salut,
/// Simon BUCH



On 01/02/2024 13:50, acr...@shaw.ca wrote:

Wow! That's a stupid idea. Hopefully, it's a bug not a feature and will soon
be fixed.

Alison

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of de Rouck, Tom (Zelzate)
Sent: February 1, 2024 12:53 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Single quotation mark in French

Hi everyone,

Who at Adobe suddenly thought it was a good idea to automatically add a hard
space before a single quotation mark in French, in Framemaker 2022?
Anyone knows how to turn this off?

Merci pour l 'aide (intended)

Best regards,
Tom

Tom De Rouck
Industries & Environment
Technical Assessment & Advisory - Senior Project Manager - Documentation
Services

SGS Belgium NV
Karnemelkstraat 3
B-9060 - Zelzate

Phone:  +32 (0)9 242 81 77
Mobile:  +32 (0)476 87 44 33
E-mail :   tom.dero...@sgs.com

Information in this email and any attachments is confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed or otherwise
directed. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the
Company. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments
for the presence of viruses. The Company accepts no liability for any damage
caused by any virus transmitted by this email. All SGS services are rendered
in accordance with the applicable SGS conditions of service available on
request and accessible at https://www.sgs.com/en/terms-and-conditions
___

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Re: [Framers] Single quotation mark in French

[acraig]

Wow! That's a stupid idea. Hopefully, it's a bug not a feature and will soon
be fixed.

Alison

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of de Rouck, Tom (Zelzate)
Sent: February 1, 2024 12:53 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Single quotation mark in French

Hi everyone,

Who at Adobe suddenly thought it was a good idea to automatically add a hard
space before a single quotation mark in French, in Framemaker 2022?
Anyone knows how to turn this off?

Merci pour l 'aide (intended)

Best regards,
Tom

Tom De Rouck
Industries & Environment
Technical Assessment & Advisory - Senior Project Manager - Documentation
Services

SGS Belgium NV
Karnemelkstraat 3
B-9060 - Zelzate

Phone:  +32 (0)9 242 81 77
Mobile:  +32 (0)476 87 44 33
E-mail :   tom.dero...@sgs.com

Information in this email and any attachments is confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed or otherwise
directed. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the
Company. Finally, the recipient should check this email and any attachments
for the presence of viruses. The Company accepts no liability for any damage
caused by any virus transmitted by this email. All SGS services are rendered
in accordance with the applicable SGS conditions of service available on
request and accessible at https://www.sgs.com/en/terms-and-conditions
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Re: [Framers] Track Changes has stopped working

[Julie A. Sigrist]

I just upgraded to Windows 11 at work. I see where the "Enable" command remains 
selectable, but when I start working in the file, the Track/Edit feature is 
working.

Julie

From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of acr...@shaw.ca
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2024 12:42 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Track Changes has stopped working

I'm posting this for my contractor.

And note that sometimes something he tries works for a bit, then it stops
working.



Track Changes has stopped working.

At the start of the project, it was working great...and then it wasn't. I
can only assume I have somehow blocked the process.

I have tried to Enable Track Changes in my document and the Bookfile from
the Edit menu as well as using the Toolbar functions. The only action I can
make is to click OK on a pop message that says "Finished Enable Track Text
Edit in Book" but the Enable feature still remains selectable.

I have attempted to resolve this issue by performing the following steps:

* Saving as a Mif
* Update the Bookfile
* Installed the latest Updates
* Closed out of FrameMaker

However, none of these steps have worked.

I am currently using FrameMaker version 17.0.3.546

on a 64-bit OS

Running Windows 11 Home edition





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Re: [Framers] Side heads issue and numbering

[Tammy Van Boening]

Well, sigh, it has to be a bug in FM19 because I am receiving this message for 
ONLY my Heading1 tag. Any subsequent tag, Heading2, Heading3, etc., I am NOT 
getting the message and yep, I am definitely applying the numbering to a tag 
that goes across all side heads and columns.  I am NOT even gonna' try to 
figure this one . . . it won't break the document, cause generation problems. . 
. live and let live at this point.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:57 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Side heads issue and numbering
> 
> OK,
> 
> S, now after deciding that they didn't want numbering
> on the headings, my client now has flipped-flopped and wants numbering.
> Sigh. So, I did the following:
> 
> 1.  Removed landscape pages from the available Master Pages.
> 2.  Turned on room for side heads in the template: Format > Page Layout >
> Column Layout. (I then double-checked all my master pages and all have a side
> head showing.)
> 3.  Started with my Heading1 paragraph tag and started the Numbering
> scheme where H:<$chapnum>.\t and adjusted the tab until I was happy.
> 4.  For my Heading1 tag, selected Across All Columns and Sideheads.
> 
> But then . . . .I get that infamous message that applied a side head paragraph
> format to a paragraph in a flow that does have room for side heads, BUT as
> you can see in Step 2, I have applied side heads. I give. . . If anyone can 
> point
> me in the right direction/explain what in the H*LL is going on, I would 
> sincerely
> appreciate it.
> 
> TVB
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a word document"

[Syed Zaeem Hosain]

Perfect!! A good outcome for all ...

Z


Update: So, I demonstrated to my client how/why I was using 
Framemaker versus Word and explained to them that they would be going down the 
same hellacious road that they hired me to rescue them from in the first place 
if they went back to Word and I also emphasized the exorbitant cost in having 
me convert everything to Word and miracles upon miracles, here is their 
response verbatim: " We have decided to skill up with framemaker, so no worries 
about the word versions." Score one for the gipper!!!

I promised to leave them a very clean point and click template and provide a 
video of how to switch back and forth between the two conditions (SPG and 
Equations) which represent the two different guides!!!

Now, I am going to drink heavily but this time to celebrate!!!

Happy Holidays everyone!!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2023 8:51 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a
> word document"
>
> Thanks everyone for all the responses. Despite the "death knell" tone, I was
> 99.9% sure that that was going to be the case. Sigh. I need to reach out to my
> client and set the expectations and let them decide how badly they want to go
> down the rabbit hole - and it won't be cheap. I am still sticking with my 
> original
> solution which is to drink heavily and then run away.
>
> TVB
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> Behalf
> > Of Dennis Hays
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 5:29 PM
> > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to
> > a word document"
> >
> >
> >That may be useful for single files, but what about a book file
> >containing multiple .fm files?
> >Dennis
> >
> >--
> >Dennis Hays
> >Quantum Mechanic
> >+1 518.779.2322
> >
> >On Tuesday, Dec 12, 2023 at 4:33 PM, B. Smalbro
> <[1]stu...@smalbro.dk>
> >wrote:
> >I would suggest saving the fm document to pdf. And then export the pdf
> >to WordIt is important to use the Save As feature from FM rather than
> >print. Gives a pdf where text flows are kept.Best regards
> >Bjørn___This message
> is
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> >and unsubscribe at
> >http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.comSend
> >administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >
> >
> >
> [66F8592229221498463ACC738E629823_8B6E2B8286A457EF517A95B65
> > 5297615.png]
> >
> > References
> >
> >1. mailto:stu...@smalbro.dk
> > ___
> >
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> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-
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> Send a

Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a word document"

[Julie A. Sigrist]

A very professional approach, and it worked. Have one on me.

Julie Sigrist
Quality Assurance Associate Writer
Airborne Maintenance & Engineering Services
Cell 513-607-1444
145 Hunter Dr. l Wilmington, OH l 45177
www.airbornemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com>
[cid:image001.png@01DA327D.450BE840]<http://www.airbornemx.com/>

From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2023 12:51 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a word 
document"

Update: So, I demonstrated to my client how/why I was using 
Framemaker versus Word and explained to them that they would be going down the 
same hellacious road that they hired me to rescue them from in the first place 
if they went back to Word and I also emphasized the exorbitant cost in having 
me convert everything to Word and miracles upon miracles, here is their 
response verbatim: " We have decided to skill up with framemaker, so no worries 
about the word versions." Score one for the gipper!!!

I promised to leave them a very clean point and click template and provide a 
video of how to switch back and forth between the two conditions (SPG and 
Equations) which represent the two different guides!!!

Now, I am going to drink heavily but this time to celebrate!!!

Happy Holidays everyone!!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com>>
>  On Behalf
> Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2023 8:51 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a
> word document"
>
> Thanks everyone for all the responses. Despite the "death knell" tone, I was
> 99.9% sure that that was going to be the case. Sigh. I need to reach out to my
> client and set the expectations and let them decide how badly they want to go
> down the rabbit hole - and it won't be cheap. I am still sticking with my 
> original
> solution which is to drink heavily and then run away.
>
> TVB
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com>>
> >  On
> Behalf
> > Of Dennis Hays
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 5:29 PM
> > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to
> > a word document"
> >
> >
> > That may be useful for single files, but what about a book file
> > containing multiple .fm files?
> > Dennis
> >
> > --
> > Dennis Hays
> > Quantum Mechanic
> > +1 518.779.2322
> >
> > On Tuesday, Dec 12, 2023 at 4:33 PM, B. Smalbro
> <[1]stu...@smalbro.dk<mailto:stu...@smalbro.dk>>
> > wrote:
> > I would suggest saving the fm document to pdf. And then export the pdf
> > to WordIt is important to use the Save As feature from FM rather than
> > print. Gives a pdf where text flows are kept.Best<http://kept.Best> regards
> > Bjørn___This message
> is
> > from the Framers mailing listSend messages to
> > framers@lists.frameusers.comVisit<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.comVisit> 
> > the list's homepage at
> > http://www.frameusers.comArchives<http://www.frameusers.comArchives> 
> > located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/Subscribe<http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/Subscribe>
> > and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.comSend<http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.comSend>
> > administrative questions to 
> > listad...@frameusers.com<mailto:listad...@frameusers.com>
> >
> >
> >
> [66F8592229221498463ACC738E629823_8B6E2B8286A457EF517A95B65
> > 5297615.png]
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:stu...@smalbro.dk
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Sen

Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a word document"

[Tammy Van Boening]

Update: So, I demonstrated to my client how/why I was using 
Framemaker versus Word and explained to them that they would be going down the 
same hellacious road that they hired me to rescue them from in the first place 
if they went back to Word and I also emphasized the exorbitant cost in having 
me convert everything to Word and miracles upon miracles, here is their 
response verbatim: " We have decided to skill up with framemaker, so no worries 
about the word versions." Score one for the gipper!!!

I promised to leave them a very clean point and click template and provide a 
video of how to switch back and forth between the two conditions (SPG and 
Equations) which represent the two different guides!!!

Now, I am going to drink heavily but this time to celebrate!!!

Happy Holidays everyone!!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2023 8:51 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a
> word document"
> 
> Thanks everyone for all the responses. Despite the "death knell" tone, I was
> 99.9% sure that that was going to be the case. Sigh. I need to reach out to my
> client and set the expectations and let them decide how badly they want to go
> down the rabbit hole - and it won't be cheap. I am still sticking with my 
> original
> solution which is to drink heavily and then run away.
> 
> TVB
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> Behalf
> > Of Dennis Hays
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 5:29 PM
> > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to
> > a word document"
> >
> >
> >That may be useful for single files, but what about a book file
> >containing multiple .fm files?
> >Dennis
> >
> >--
> >Dennis Hays
> >Quantum Mechanic
> >+1 518.779.2322
> >
> >On Tuesday, Dec 12, 2023 at 4:33 PM, B. Smalbro
> <[1]stu...@smalbro.dk>
> >wrote:
> >I would suggest saving the fm document to pdf. And then export the pdf
> >to WordIt is important to use the Save As feature from FM rather than
> >print. Gives a pdf where text flows are kept.Best regards
> >Bjørn___This message
> is
> >from the Framers mailing listSend messages to
> >framers@lists.frameusers.comVisit the list's homepage at
> >http://www.frameusers.comArchives located at
> >http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/Subscribe
> >and unsubscribe at
> >http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.comSend
> >administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >
> >
> >
> [66F8592229221498463ACC738E629823_8B6E2B8286A457EF517A95B65
> > 5297615.png]
> >
> > References
> >
> >1. mailto:stu...@smalbro.dk
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
> > homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
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Re: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties

[acraig]

I've "self-documented" inside Word templates - which other people use.

However, no one else in the company (or at least in my division) uses Frame
so that's not an issue-except when I have a contractor, as I have right now.

But it's worth considering, thanks. 

Alison


-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Craig Ede
Sent: December 14, 2023 8:53 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties

Hello Alison,

Since anything can happen in a FrameMaker file that is out there in use, I
always document my templates by writing a style guide in that template going
through all the various tags, and other settings that make up a FrameMaker
file. By keeping that information in the template you prevent redefinition
of elements in one book/file from being mistaken for the sanctioned
settings. It also allows importing of the definitions of any of the elements
from the template when you have to bring a book/file back into compliance
with a template.

This worked well when have 50+ engineers working in the individual files
that make up a book, some of whom are only casually interested in not using
the Word format-as-you-go method of working.

In my opinion, any FrameMaker template should self document in this way so
that one knows the rules one is working with.

Those are my 2 cents worth.

Craig Ede


From: Framers  on
behalf of acr...@shaw.ca 
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2023 6:17 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties

Is there a way to print Character, Paragraph and Table tag properties
directly from a Frame file?

As a lone writer, I never have time to create a decent style guide, but in
the Spring I'm going to have access to a student from a local tech comm
program and I want them to at least start documenting tags for a style
guide.

If there's a way to export these details, even if the output isn't pretty,
that would be great.



Alison

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Re: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties

[Craig Ede]

Hello Alison,

Since anything can happen in a FrameMaker file that is out there in use, I 
always document my templates by writing a style guide in that template going 
through all the various tags, and other settings that make up a FrameMaker 
file. By keeping that information in the template you prevent redefinition of 
elements in one book/file from being mistaken for the sanctioned settings. It 
also allows importing of the definitions of any of the elements from the 
template when you have to bring a book/file back into compliance with a 
template.

This worked well when have 50+ engineers working in the individual files that 
make up a book, some of whom are only casually interested in not using the Word 
format-as-you-go method of working.

In my opinion, any FrameMaker template should self document in this way so that 
one knows the rules one is working with.

Those are my 2 cents worth.

Craig Ede


From: Framers  on 
behalf of acr...@shaw.ca 
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2023 6:17 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties

Is there a way to print Character, Paragraph and Table tag properties
directly from a Frame file?

As a lone writer, I never have time to create a decent style guide, but in
the Spring I'm going to have access to a student from a local tech comm
program and I want them to at least start documenting tags for a style
guide.

If there's a way to export these details, even if the output isn't pretty,
that would be great.



Alison

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Re: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties

[acraig]

Unfortunately, due to the security precautions that our company takes, third
party apps can take months to be approved - it they are approved at all.

I do have the Silicon Prairie tools, so I'll have to explore them in depth.
I only took a quick glance and didn't see what I was looking for - I didn't
read all the instructions (as I should have).

The MIF method looks workable if a little cumbersome. 

Thanks for the ideas.

Alison 


-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Mike Wickham
Sent: December 14, 2023 7:41 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties

Just an additional comment on my earlier Format List from squidds.de
post: I'm using an older version of FM, so haven't bought this utility for a
while. But I seem to recall that, since I last purchased, they changed their
license from a one-time purchase to requiring an upgrade with every FM
upgrade. So you might want to check that out and consider it before any
purchase.

Mike Wickham

On 12/13/2023 6:17 PM, acr...@shaw.ca wrote:
> Is there a way to print Character, Paragraph and Table tag properties 
> directly from a Frame file?
>
> As a lone writer, I never have time to create a decent style guide, 
> but in the Spring I'm going to have access to a student from a local 
> tech comm program and I want them to at least start documenting tags 
> for a style guide.
>
> If there's a way to export these details, even if the output isn't 
> pretty, that would be great.
>
>   
>
> Alison
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
> homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
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> Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
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Re: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties

[Mike Wickham]

Just an additional comment on my earlier Format List from squidds.de 
post: I'm using an older version of FM, so haven't bought this utility 
for a while. But I seem to recall that, since I last purchased, they 
changed their license from a one-time purchase to requiring an upgrade 
with every FM upgrade. So you might want to check that out and consider 
it before any purchase.


Mike Wickham

On 12/13/2023 6:17 PM, acr...@shaw.ca wrote:

Is there a way to print Character, Paragraph and Table tag properties
directly from a Frame file?

As a lone writer, I never have time to create a decent style guide, but in
the Spring I'm going to have access to a student from a local tech comm
program and I want them to at least start documenting tags for a style
guide.

If there's a way to export these details, even if the output isn't pretty,
that would be great.

  


Alison

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Re: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties

[Mike Wickham]

There is a utility that I like a lot for this. Squidds.de makes a 
Finalyser plugin that contains a whole bunch of utilities.. One is 
Format List. It prints out what you want and, unlike the Silicon Prairie 
Software plugin, puts all the paragraph properties into a single table.  
This makes it much easier to scan down a column to find a style with an 
errant font, for example.


The problem is that the squidds.de site is a bear to operate for 
ordering. First, it's in German, so you have to turn on the English 
version, which isn't perfect. Then you have to find the Finalyser 
product. Then you have to find the price list for it, which is the only 
place that displays options to buy individual utilities (on the second 
page). $299 Euros for Format List. Not cheap, considering that it used 
to $99.


Mike Wickham

On 12/13/2023 6:17 PM, acr...@shaw.ca wrote:

Is there a way to print Character, Paragraph and Table tag properties
directly from a Frame file?

As a lone writer, I never have time to create a decent style guide, but in
the Spring I'm going to have access to a student from a local tech comm
program and I want them to at least start documenting tags for a style
guide.

If there's a way to export these details, even if the output isn't pretty,
that would be great.

  


Alison

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Re: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties

[Dennis Hays]

   SiliconPrairieSoftware has Paragraph Tools and Character Tools which
   produces separate files listing the styles.
   Dennis

   --
   Dennis Hays
   Quantum Mechanic
   +1 518.779.2322

   On Thursday, Dec 14, 2023 at 8:58 AM, Thomas Bain
   <[1]tom.b...@icloud.com> wrote:
   Alison - Others may have a better solution, but, if you save a Frame
   file as
   a .mif, the definitions are within. For example, here's part of a
   paragraph
   tag definition:
   
   
   
   
   ...
   
   
   
   
   
   
   ...
   > # end of PgfFont
   ...
   
   
   
   > # end of TabStop
   ...
   > # end of Pgf
   -Original Message-
   From: Framers
On
   Behalf Of acr...@shaw.ca
   Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2023 19:17
   To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
   Subject: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties
   Is there a way to print Character, Paragraph and Table tag properties
   directly from a Frame file?
   As a lone writer, I never have time to create a decent style guide, but
   in
   the Spring I'm going to have access to a student from a local tech comm
   program and I want them to at least start documenting tags for a style
   guide.
   If there's a way to export these details, even if the output isn't
   pretty,
   that would be great.
   Alison
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   [66F8592229221498463ACC738E629823_B2B30917A9FD286F0FCD16EDAAD74DFB.png]

References

   1. mailto:tom.b...@icloud.com
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Re: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties

[Thomas Bain]

Alison - Others may have a better solution, but, if you save a Frame file as
a .mif, the definitions are within. For example, here's part of a paragraph
tag definition:


  
  
  
...
  
   
   
   
   
   
   ...
  > # end of PgfFont
...
  
   
   
  > # end of TabStop
  ...
 > # end of Pgf

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of acr...@shaw.ca
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2023 19:17
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Printing Tag Properties

Is there a way to print Character, Paragraph and Table tag properties
directly from a Frame file?

As a lone writer, I never have time to create a decent style guide, but in
the Spring I'm going to have access to a student from a local tech comm
program and I want them to at least start documenting tags for a style
guide.

If there's a way to export these details, even if the output isn't pretty,
that would be great.

 

Alison 

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Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a word document"

[Julie A. Sigrist]

I agree with Alison. I also use a FRAME > PDF > WORD option so personnel can 
edit the docs. They prefer to use something other than the comment capabilities 
of Acrobat. Usually, the conversion is relatively good, but I find many issues 
when scientific/mathematical symbols are used. It can get quite ugly.

Your client has yet to deal with long documents like this in Word. "Drink 
heavily and then run away" also sounds like a good option.

Julie Sigrist
513-607-1444
From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of acr...@shaw.ca
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2023 6:55 PM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.' 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a word 
document"

I've been using the FRAME > PDF > WORD option a lot lately (50-150 page docs) 
so the engineers can do their editing and commenting in the Word doc.

But I always preface my explanation to them with the caveat... "this creates an 
incredibly ugly Word file".

If you do the test run on 20 pages or so (pick complex pages) and do a truly 
honest quote, I can't imagine why the client would want to continue.

But " drink heavily and then run away" is a really good option as well. :-)

Alison


-Original Message-
From: Framers 
mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=shaw...@lists.frameusers.com>>
 On Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: December 13, 2023 7:51 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 
mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a word 
document"

Thanks everyone for all the responses. Despite the "death knell" tone, I was 
99.9% sure that that was going to be the case. Sigh. I need to reach out to my 
client and set the expectations and let them decide how badly they want to go 
down the rabbit hole - and it won't be cheap. I am still sticking with my 
original solution which is to drink heavily and then run away.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com 
www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com>>
>  On Behalf
> Of Dennis Hays
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 5:29 PM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to
> a word document"
>
>
> That may be useful for single files, but what about a book file
> containing multiple .fm files?
> Dennis
>
> --
> Dennis Hays
> Quantum Mechanic
> +1 518.779.2322
>
> On Tuesday, Dec 12, 2023 at 4:33 PM, B. Smalbro 
> <[1]stu...@smalbro.dk<mailto:stu...@smalbro.dk>>
> wrote:
> I would suggest saving the fm document to pdf. And then export the pdf
> to WordIt is important to use the Save As feature from FM rather than
> print. Gives a pdf where text flows are kept.Best<http://kept.Best> regards
> Bj rn___This message is
> from the Framers mailing listSend messages to
> framers@lists.frameusers.comVisit<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.comVisit> 
> the list's homepage at
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> [66F8592229221498463ACC738E629823_8B6E2B8286A457EF517A95B65
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>
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This message is from the Fra

Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a word document"

[acraig]

I've been using the FRAME > PDF > WORD option a lot lately (50-150 page docs) 
so the engineers can do their editing and commenting in the Word doc.

But I always preface my explanation to them with the caveat... "this creates an 
incredibly ugly Word file".

If you do the test run on 20 pages or so (pick complex pages) and do a truly 
honest quote, I can't imagine why the client would want to continue.

But " drink heavily and then run away" is a really good option as well. :-)

Alison 


-Original Message-
From: Framers  On Behalf 
Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: December 13, 2023 7:51 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a word 
document"

Thanks everyone for all the responses. Despite the "death knell" tone, I was 
99.9% sure that that was going to be the case. Sigh. I need to reach out to my 
client and set the expectations and let them decide how badly they want to go 
down the rabbit hole - and it won't be cheap. I am still sticking with my 
original solution which is to drink heavily and then run away. 

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Dennis Hays
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 5:29 PM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to 
> a word document"
> 
> 
>That may be useful for single files, but what about a book file
>containing multiple .fm files?
>Dennis
> 
>--
>Dennis Hays
>Quantum Mechanic
>+1 518.779.2322
> 
>On Tuesday, Dec 12, 2023 at 4:33 PM, B. Smalbro <[1]stu...@smalbro.dk>
>wrote:
>I would suggest saving the fm document to pdf. And then export the pdf
>to WordIt is important to use the Save As feature from FM rather than
>print. Gives a pdf where text flows are kept.Best regards
>Bj rn___This message is
>from the Framers mailing listSend messages to
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>administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> 
> 
> [66F8592229221498463ACC738E629823_8B6E2B8286A457EF517A95B65
> 5297615.png]
> 
> References
> 
>1. mailto:stu...@smalbro.dk
> ___
> 
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> homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
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Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a word document"

[Tammy Van Boening]

Thanks everyone for all the responses. Despite the "death knell" tone, I was 
99.9% sure that that was going to be the case. Sigh. I need to reach out to my 
client and set the expectations and let them decide how badly they want to go 
down the rabbit hole - and it won't be cheap. I am still sticking with my 
original solution which is to drink heavily and then run away. 

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Dennis Hays
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 5:29 PM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a
> word document"
> 
> 
>That may be useful for single files, but what about a book file
>containing multiple .fm files?
>Dennis
> 
>--
>Dennis Hays
>Quantum Mechanic
>+1 518.779.2322
> 
>On Tuesday, Dec 12, 2023 at 4:33 PM, B. Smalbro <[1]stu...@smalbro.dk>
>wrote:
>I would suggest saving the fm document to pdf. And then export the pdf
>to WordIt is important to use the Save As feature from FM rather than
>print. Gives a pdf where text flows are kept.Best regards
>Bjørn___This message is
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>administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> 
> 
> [66F8592229221498463ACC738E629823_8B6E2B8286A457EF517A95B65
> 5297615.png]
> 
> References
> 
>1. mailto:stu...@smalbro.dk
> ___
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Re: [Framers] Regarding "Converting a frame maker document to a word document"

[Dennis Hays]

   That may be useful for single files, but what about a book file
   containing multiple .fm files?
   Dennis

   --
   Dennis Hays
   Quantum Mechanic
   +1 518.779.2322

   On Tuesday, Dec 12, 2023 at 4:33 PM, B. Smalbro <[1]stu...@smalbro.dk>
   wrote:
   I would suggest saving the fm document to pdf. And then export the pdf
   to WordIt is important to use the Save As feature from FM rather than
   print. Gives a pdf where text flows are kept.Best regards
   Bjørn___This message is
   from the Framers mailing listSend messages to
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   administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

   [66F8592229221498463ACC738E629823_8B6E2B8286A457EF517A95B655297615.png]

References

   1. mailto:stu...@smalbro.dk
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Re: [Framers] Converting a frame maker document to a word document

[Thomas Bain]

I've seen several suggestions to use PDF and then convert from there. I've had 
success with "Save as" to Microsoft RTF and >100 page documents, which will 
avoid some of the issues that have been covered in other responses. I don't 
want to oversell, though, as the nuances Tam lays out below are non-trivial.

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 11:41
To: Framers 
Subject: [Framers] Converting a frame maker document to a word document

Hello all,
I have an absolutely massive frame maker document (700+ pages including a 
bibliography) that is laden with cross references and graphics. It’s a heavily 
detailed scientific guide that I’m also single sourcing to produce another 
guide from. I’ve gone round and round with my client on this, but they’ve 
decided that they want everything in Word  now, despite all my articulate 
arguments about why Word is not the source tool you want to use for something 
like this. That said, that means I have to convert this beast to a word 
document. I know I’m probably up the proverbial creek without a paddle, but is 
there any even remotely possible way to do this short of copying and pasting 
everything in and manually reformatting ? I have tons across references. I have 
numbered figures that need to remain numbered sequentially. I have a 
bibliography that uses super scripts for cross references, etc. It’s just a 
nightmare and I don’t even want to think about starting this but I don’t have a 
choice.

Any and all advice short of drinking heavily and running away is appreciated 

Thank you so much,
Tam
Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.

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Re: [Framers] Converting a frame maker document to a word document

[Scott Prentice]

I'd do the first 20 or so pages manually, and include various bits from 
the various sections, toc, index, bibliography, etc. Then present that 
to the client with a realistic quote for doing the rest. If you. can 
even represent all of the bit in Word, they will probably see that this 
path is flawed. If now, be sure your quote is adequate to cover time, 
expenses and mental health support tools.


Cheers,
...scott


On 12/12/23 8:41 AM, Tammy Van Boening wrote:

Hello all,
I have an absolutely massive frame maker document (700+ pages including a 
bibliography) that is laden with cross references and graphics. It’s a heavily 
detailed scientific guide that I’m also single sourcing to produce another 
guide from. I’ve gone round and round with my client on this, but they’ve 
decided that they want everything in Word  now, despite all my articulate 
arguments about why Word is not the source tool you want to use for something 
like this. That said, that means I have to convert this beast to a word 
document. I know I’m probably up the proverbial creek without a paddle, but is 
there any even remotely possible way to do this short of copying and pasting 
everything in and manually reformatting ? I have tons across references. I have 
numbered figures that need to remain numbered sequentially. I have a 
bibliography that uses super scripts for cross references, etc. It’s just a 
nightmare and I don’t even want to think about starting this but I don’t have a 
choice.

Any and all advice short of drinking heavily and running away is appreciated

Thank you so much,
Tam
Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
___

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Re: [Framers] Converting a frame maker document to a word document

[Syed Zaeem Hosain]

My experience with trying to read PDF documents into Word has always been way 
less than optimal.

Lots of incorrect look and feel issues, footnote problems, font sizes, etc., 
etc., etc., creep in, and the document becomes tough to further edit in Word 
afterward.

I usually end up biting the bullet and converting manually - just bring all the 
text in, and apply paragraphs that I create in a Word template as needed.

All character/word emphasis (italics, bolding, etc.) takes a major hit and I 
spend time fixing those too ... argh! :(

Of course, a 700+ page document will take time and effort! I have to admit that 
I have never tried to do this for such a large document.

Z


From: Framers  on 
behalf of pe...@galley.ie 
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 8:52 AM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.' 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Converting a frame maker document to a word document

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.


Could you save as PDF and then save that as Word?

Alternately, you could sub-contract the job to me 

Peter

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On Behalf 
Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 4:41 PM
To: Framers 
Subject: [Framers] Converting a frame maker document to a word document

Hello all,
I have an absolutely massive frame maker document (700+ pages including a 
bibliography) that is laden with cross references and graphics. It’s a heavily 
detailed scientific guide that I’m also single sourcing to produce another 
guide from. I’ve gone round and round with my client on this, but they’ve 
decided that they want everything in Word  now, despite all my articulate 
arguments about why Word is not the source tool you want to use for something 
like this. That said, that means I have to convert this beast to a word 
document. I know I’m probably up the proverbial creek without a paddle, but is 
there any even remotely possible way to do this short of copying and pasting 
everything in and manually reformatting ? I have tons across references. I have 
numbered figures that need to remain numbered sequentially. I have a 
bibliography that uses super scripts for cross references, etc. It’s just a 
nightmare and I don’t even want to think about starting this but I don’t have a 
choice.

Any and all advice short of drinking heavily and running away is appreciated

Thank you so much,
Tam
Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
___

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This communication contains Aeris Confidential Information. If it has been sent 
to you in error, please reply to advise the sender of the error and then 
immediately delete this message.
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Re: [Framers] Converting a frame maker document to a word document

[Dennis Hays]

   Tammy and other Framers
   I have not yet found a satisfactory method of converting PDF (from
   Frame) to Word. I've used Nitro Pro and Tracker Software's products
   with PDF to Word conversion features, but the results are not viable as
   a go-to solution.
   In fact, the larger the document, the worse the outcome. Headers and
   footers slip pages, content is not stable, and so forth.
   Word is a tricky beast with sometimes bloated code (XML?) under the
   cover that the resultant file is huge and becomes unmanageable
   navigating and editing.
   Oh, how I wish there was a clean tool.
   Dennis

   --
   Dennis Hays
   Quantum Mechanic
   +1 518.779.2322

   On Tuesday, Dec 12, 2023 at 11:52 AM, pe...@galley.ie
   <[1]pe...@galley.ie> wrote:
   Could you save as PDF and then save that as Word?Alternately, you could
   sub-contract the job to me Peter-Original Message-From:
   Framers  On
   Behalf Of Tammy Van BoeningSent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 4:41 PMTo:
   Framers Subject: [Framers] Converting a
   frame maker document to a word documentHello all,I have an absolutely
   massive frame maker document (700+ pages including a bibliography) that
   is laden with cross references and graphics. It’s a heavily detailed
   scientific guide that I’m also single sourcing to produce another guide
   from. I’ve gone round and round with my client on this, but they’ve
   decided that they want everything in Word now, despite all my
   articulate arguments about why Word is not the source tool you want to
   use for something like this. That said, that means I have to convert
   this beast to a word document. I know I’m probably up the proverbial
   creek without a paddle, but is there any even remotely possible way to
   do this short of copying and pasting everything in and manually
   reformatting ? I have tons across references. I have numbered figures
   that need to remain numbered sequentially. I have a bibliography that
   uses super scripts for cross references, etc. It’s just a nightmare and
   I don’t even want to think about starting this but I don’t have a
   choice.Any and all advice short of drinking heavily and running away is
   appreciated Thank you so much,TamSent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs
   for any typos.___This
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   [66F8592229221498463ACC738E629823_B27B2F1A2F5BEADFC1EDA4AA03D5D4E5.png]

References

   1. mailto:pe...@galley.ie
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Re: [Framers] Converting a frame maker document to a word document

[peter]

Could you save as PDF and then save that as Word?

Alternately, you could sub-contract the job to me 

Peter

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On Behalf 
Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 4:41 PM
To: Framers 
Subject: [Framers] Converting a frame maker document to a word document

Hello all,
I have an absolutely massive frame maker document (700+ pages including a 
bibliography) that is laden with cross references and graphics. It’s a heavily 
detailed scientific guide that I’m also single sourcing to produce another 
guide from. I’ve gone round and round with my client on this, but they’ve 
decided that they want everything in Word  now, despite all my articulate 
arguments about why Word is not the source tool you want to use for something 
like this. That said, that means I have to convert this beast to a word 
document. I know I’m probably up the proverbial creek without a paddle, but is 
there any even remotely possible way to do this short of copying and pasting 
everything in and manually reformatting ? I have tons across references. I have 
numbered figures that need to remain numbered sequentially. I have a 
bibliography that uses super scripts for cross references, etc. It’s just a 
nightmare and I don’t even want to think about starting this but I don’t have a 
choice.

Any and all advice short of drinking heavily and running away is appreciated 

Thank you so much,
Tam
Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
___

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Re: [Framers] Batch conversion from Frame 2022 *down* to Frame 2020?

[acraig]

Thanks


-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of r...@rickquatro.com
Sent: November 22, 2023 11:11 AM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'

Subject: Re: [Framers] Batch conversion from Frame 2022 *down* to Frame
2020?

Hi Alison,

See my ConvertDocs script at www.frameexpert.com/store.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of acr...@shaw.ca
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2023 2:05 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Batch conversion from Frame 2022 *down* to Frame 2020?

>From the latest Frame manual I see that you can use the MifWash utility to
batch convert older Frame files to a newer version, but can you do the
opposite?

 

I need to have my remote contractor convert a Frame book from 2022 down to
2020 and I'm trying to find the easiest way to do that. 

 

There are only about 34 files, but that would be a royal pain to do
one-by-one.

 

And no, I can't update to the Frame latest version. We have heavy security
protocols in place so Frame is only updated once every 2 years (2024 is the
next time we'll update across the company).

 

Alison 

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Re: [Framers] Batch conversion from Frame 2022 *down* to Frame 2020?

[rick]

Hi Alison,

See my ConvertDocs script at www.frameexpert.com/store.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of acr...@shaw.ca
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2023 2:05 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Batch conversion from Frame 2022 *down* to Frame 2020?

>From the latest Frame manual I see that you can use the MifWash utility to
batch convert older Frame files to a newer version, but can you do the
opposite?

 

I need to have my remote contractor convert a Frame book from 2022 down to
2020 and I'm trying to find the easiest way to do that. 

 

There are only about 34 files, but that would be a royal pain to do
one-by-one.

 

And no, I can't update to the Frame latest version. We have heavy security
protocols in place so Frame is only updated once every 2 years (2024 is the
next time we'll update across the company).

 

Alison 

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Re: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline (SOLVED)

[acraig]

Thanks, Rick and Winfried. You nailed it.

I knew I had to be missing something simple but not obvious, I just couldn't
figure out what it was.

Alison 



-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of r...@rickquatro.com
Sent: November 20, 2023 5:39 AM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'
; b...@acm.org
Subject: Re: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

Hi Alison,

You have to set your numbering at the book component level, not the document
level. Right-click on the components and set the numbering there and then
update the book.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of acr...@shaw.ca
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 8:12 PM
To: b...@acm.org; 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker
software.' 
Subject: Re: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

That's not what I have in my other books, so no. I didn't try that.

Now that I have tried it, that sets the page number to A, not the heading
number.

But thanks, Alison 



-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Thomas Bain
Sent: November 19, 2023 2:45 PM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'

Subject: Re: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

Alison - When you select Format > Document > Numbering for Appendix A within
the book, have you selected the Page tab and made sure It says First Page #:
1 and Format ALPHABETIC A?


 

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of acr...@shaw.ca
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 16:56
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

Frame 2020, Version: 16.0.5.1096

Windows 10

I'm having issues with the appendices in a book. No matter what I do, they
keep reverting from Appendix A and Appendix B, to Appendix 8 and Appendix 9.

I've tried configuring Format > Document > Numbering so it matches exactly
with a book where the numbering works perfectly, but when I Update Book, the
appendices revert to numbers.

I have to publish this book tomorrow (Monday, November 20) and I'm tearing
my hair out here.

Any suggestions?

Alison

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Re: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

[rick]

Hi Alison,

You have to set your numbering at the book component level, not the document
level. Right-click on the components and set the numbering there and then
update the book.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of acr...@shaw.ca
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 8:12 PM
To: b...@acm.org; 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker
software.' 
Subject: Re: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

That's not what I have in my other books, so no. I didn't try that.

Now that I have tried it, that sets the page number to A, not the heading
number.

But thanks, Alison 



-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Thomas Bain
Sent: November 19, 2023 2:45 PM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'

Subject: Re: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

Alison - When you select Format > Document > Numbering for Appendix A within
the book, have you selected the Page tab and made sure It says First Page #:
1 and Format ALPHABETIC A?


 

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of acr...@shaw.ca
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 16:56
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

Frame 2020, Version: 16.0.5.1096

Windows 10

I'm having issues with the appendices in a book. No matter what I do, they
keep reverting from Appendix A and Appendix B, to Appendix 8 and Appendix 9.

I've tried configuring Format > Document > Numbering so it matches exactly
with a book where the numbering works perfectly, but when I Update Book, the
appendices revert to numbers.

I have to publish this book tomorrow (Monday, November 20) and I'm tearing
my hair out here.

Any suggestions?

Alison

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Re: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

[Winfried Reng]

   Hi Alison,
   Did you change the numbering in the book file? Or in the FM file?
   You have to select the book file and in the book file select the
   appendix file. Then change the numbering.
   Best regards,
   Winfried
   Am 19.11.2023 22:56 schrieb acr...@shaw.ca:

 Frame 2020, Version: 16.0.5.1096
 Windows 10
 I'm having issues with the appendices in a book. No matter what I
 do, they
 keep reverting from Appendix A and Appendix B, to Appendix 8 and
 Appendix 9.
 I've tried configuring Format > Document > Numbering so it matches
 exactly
 with a book where the numbering works perfectly, but when I Update
 Book, the
 appendices revert to numbers.
 I have to publish this book tomorrow (Monday, November 20) and I'm
 tearing
 my hair out here.
 Any suggestions?
 Alison
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Re: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

[acraig]

That's not what I have in my other books, so no. I didn't try that.

Now that I have tried it, that sets the page number to A, not the heading
number.

But thanks, Alison 



-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Thomas Bain
Sent: November 19, 2023 2:45 PM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'

Subject: Re: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

Alison - When you select Format > Document > Numbering for Appendix A within
the book, have you selected the Page tab and made sure It says First Page #:
1 and Format ALPHABETIC A?


 

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of acr...@shaw.ca
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 16:56
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

Frame 2020, Version: 16.0.5.1096

Windows 10

I'm having issues with the appendices in a book. No matter what I do, they
keep reverting from Appendix A and Appendix B, to Appendix 8 and Appendix 9.

I've tried configuring Format > Document > Numbering so it matches exactly
with a book where the numbering works perfectly, but when I Update Book, the
appendices revert to numbers.

I have to publish this book tomorrow (Monday, November 20) and I'm tearing
my hair out here.

Any suggestions?

Alison

___

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Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at
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Re: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

[Thomas Bain]

Alison - When you select Format > Document > Numbering for Appendix A within
the book, have you selected the Page tab and made sure It says First Page #:
1 and Format ALPHABETIC A?

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of acr...@shaw.ca
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 16:56
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] HELP: Appendix Numbering Issue on Deadline

Frame 2020, Version: 16.0.5.1096

Windows 10

I'm having issues with the appendices in a book. No matter what I do, they
keep reverting from Appendix A and Appendix B, to Appendix 8 and Appendix 9.



I've tried configuring Format > Document > Numbering so it matches exactly
with a book where the numbering works perfectly, but when I Update Book, the
appendices revert to numbers.



I have to publish this book tomorrow (Monday, November 20) and I'm tearing
my hair out here.



Any suggestions?



Alison

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Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?

[Tammy Van Boening]

OK, let me hear back from Dan and we will set a time.

Thanks!

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of r...@rickquatro.com
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 11:01 AM
> To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?
> 
> I am pretty much available this week.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+rick=rickquatro@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Tammy
> Van Boening
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 11:12 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?
> 
> HI Dan,
> 
> Looks like it will be you and I. Rick, when can we set up a 15 minute meeting 
> to
> do the hand off and ask any questions that we have?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> TVB
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> Behalf
> > Of Harding, Dan
> > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 4:16 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?
> >
> > Tammy,
> >
> > If there's a need, I'm certainly willing to help out from a list admin
> > perspective, especially if it is a group/team effort. I've been
> > subscribed to the list since 2008 (at least that's as far back as my
> > saved emails from the list go). For background, while I took early
> > retirement from the University of Illinois 2 years ago, I still work
> > for the same department 6 months out of the year as a consultant, and
> > during that 6 months I am using FrameMaker daily, so I too still rely
> > on and check the list regularly (less regularly during my 6 months of
> non-employment, but still check the list weekly at a minimum).
> >
> > While I typically prune my contact information from list emails, I'm
> > including it below.
> >
> > DAN HARDING
> > Publications Manager
> > Assistant Director, Information Technologies (Retired)
> >
> > University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Tax School Department of
> > Agricultural and Consumer Economics
> > 412 Mumford Hall | M/C 710
> > 1301 W. Gregory Drive
> > Urbana, IL 61801
> > 217.333.0935 | fax: 217.244.5933 | dhard...@illinois.edu
> > taxschool.illinois.edu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act any written
> > communication to or from university employees regarding university
> > business is a public record and may be subject to public disclosure.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+dharding=illinois@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Tammy
> > Van Boening
> > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 4:31 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > 
> > Subject: [Framers] Framers list admin?
> >
> > OK,
> >
> > I am sure that I am gonna' get excoriated by a few folks on this list
> > after this post, but at this point in my life and career, I am tough
> > old
> bird.
> >
> > I had been trying to post to the list for the last two days w/out any
> > success. I was last able to reply to a post successfully on 8/25 and
> > then since that time (through 9/12), no joy. I reached out to Bernard
> > as the last that I heard is that he had stepped up to the plate to be
> > the list admin after Carol Elkins and Rick Quatro stepped back.
> >
> > Eventually, after no response via the link at the bottom of all
> > emails, I called Bernard directly at his business.  Here is the email
> response that I received:
> >
> >
> ***
> >
> ***
> > ***
> > Hello Tammy, thanks for reaching out. I don't even recall my password
> > for the list but might be able to find it. I'd suggest reaching out to
> > Rick Quattro. He's got full admin permissions in the system as well.
> >
> > Uh, OK. The absolute >>LAST<< that I knew, Bernard was the list admin
> > and I have never seen a post to the otherwise; moreover, I actually
> > had a brief conversation with Rick Quatro a

Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?

[rick]

I am pretty much available this week.

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 11:12 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?

HI Dan,

Looks like it will be you and I. Rick, when can we set up a 15 minute
meeting to do the hand off and ask any questions that we have?

Thanks!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Harding, Dan
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 4:16 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?
> 
> Tammy,
> 
> If there's a need, I'm certainly willing to help out from a list admin 
> perspective, especially if it is a group/team effort. I've been 
> subscribed to the list since 2008 (at least that's as far back as my 
> saved emails from the list go). For background, while I took early 
> retirement from the University of Illinois 2 years ago, I still work 
> for the same department 6 months out of the year as a consultant, and 
> during that 6 months I am using FrameMaker daily, so I too still rely 
> on and check the list regularly (less regularly during my 6 months of
non-employment, but still check the list weekly at a minimum).
> 
> While I typically prune my contact information from list emails, I'm 
> including it below.
> 
> DAN HARDING
> Publications Manager
> Assistant Director, Information Technologies (Retired)
> 
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Tax School Department of 
> Agricultural and Consumer Economics
> 412 Mumford Hall | M/C 710
> 1301 W. Gregory Drive
> Urbana, IL 61801
> 217.333.0935 | fax: 217.244.5933 | dhard...@illinois.edu 
> taxschool.illinois.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act any written 
> communication to or from university employees regarding university 
> business is a public record and may be subject to public disclosure.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+dharding=illinois@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Tammy
> Van Boening
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 4:31 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Framers list admin?
> 
> OK,
> 
> I am sure that I am gonna' get excoriated by a few folks on this list 
> after this post, but at this point in my life and career, I am tough old
bird.
> 
> I had been trying to post to the list for the last two days w/out any 
> success. I was last able to reply to a post successfully on 8/25 and 
> then since that time (through 9/12), no joy. I reached out to Bernard 
> as the last that I heard is that he had stepped up to the plate to be 
> the list admin after Carol Elkins and Rick Quatro stepped back.
> 
> Eventually, after no response via the link at the bottom of all 
> emails, I called Bernard directly at his business.  Here is the email
response that I received:
> 
> ***
> ***
> ***
> Hello Tammy, thanks for reaching out. I don't even recall my password 
> for the list but might be able to find it. I'd suggest reaching out to 
> Rick Quattro. He's got full admin permissions in the system as well.
> 
> Uh, OK. The absolute >>LAST<< that I knew, Bernard was the list admin 
> and I have never seen a post to the otherwise; moreover, I actually 
> had a brief conversation with Rick Quatro a while back and he 
> explicitly stated that he was not the list admin, Bernard was.
> 
> I know that many of us on this list are getting long in the tooth, 
> myself definitely included, but I most certainly can still use the 
> support of the community at times. I intend to keep working for at 
> least the next 2 years, maybe 3 and I simply cannot imagine not having 
> this list as a resource when needed. FM is still the tool of choice 
> for several of my clients for many reasons, and even after all these 
> years, I still need a nudge in the right direction or need to learn 
> something new. I can't imagine that there are not others in the same boat.
> 
> I kinda' feel like we (the list users) have been left hanging and have 
> not been really given the whole scoop. I am more than willing to step 
> to the role of list admin part-time if someone else is willing to 
> co-admin. I don't have the bandwidth for being a sole admin, but being 
> a co-admin would be fine. At this point, the 

Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?

[Tammy Van Boening]

HI Dan,

Looks like it will be you and I. Rick, when can we set up a 15 minute meeting 
to do the hand off and ask any questions that we have?

Thanks!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Harding, Dan
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 4:16 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?
> 
> Tammy,
> 
> If there's a need, I'm certainly willing to help out from a list admin 
> perspective,
> especially if it is a group/team effort. I've been subscribed to the list 
> since 2008
> (at least that's as far back as my saved emails from the list go). For
> background, while I took early retirement from the University of Illinois 2
> years ago, I still work for the same department 6 months out of the year as a
> consultant, and during that 6 months I am using FrameMaker daily, so I too
> still rely on and check the list regularly (less regularly during my 6 months 
> of
> non-employment, but still check the list weekly at a minimum).
> 
> While I typically prune my contact information from list emails, I'm 
> including it
> below.
> 
> DAN HARDING
> Publications Manager
> Assistant Director, Information Technologies (Retired)
> 
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Tax School Department of
> Agricultural and Consumer Economics
> 412 Mumford Hall | M/C 710
> 1301 W. Gregory Drive
> Urbana, IL 61801
> 217.333.0935 | fax: 217.244.5933 | dhard...@illinois.edu
> taxschool.illinois.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act any written communication to
> or from university employees regarding university business is a public record
> and may be subject to public disclosure.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+dharding=illinois@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Tammy
> Van Boening
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 4:31 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Framers list admin?
> 
> OK,
> 
> I am sure that I am gonna' get excoriated by a few folks on this list after 
> this
> post, but at this point in my life and career, I am tough old bird.
> 
> I had been trying to post to the list for the last two days w/out any 
> success. I
> was last able to reply to a post successfully on 8/25 and then since that time
> (through 9/12), no joy. I reached out to Bernard as the last that I heard is 
> that
> he had stepped up to the plate to be the list admin after Carol Elkins and 
> Rick
> Quatro stepped back.
> 
> Eventually, after no response via the link at the bottom of all emails, I 
> called
> Bernard directly at his business.  Here is the email response that I received:
> 
> ***
> ***
> ***
> Hello Tammy, thanks for reaching out. I don't even recall my password for the
> list but might be able to find it. I'd suggest reaching out to Rick Quattro. 
> He's
> got full admin permissions in the system as well.
> 
> Uh, OK. The absolute >>LAST<< that I knew, Bernard was the list admin and I
> have never seen a post to the otherwise; moreover, I actually had a brief
> conversation with Rick Quatro a while back and he explicitly stated that he 
> was
> not the list admin, Bernard was.
> 
> I know that many of us on this list are getting long in the tooth, myself
> definitely included, but I most certainly can still use the support of the
> community at times. I intend to keep working for at least the next 2 years,
> maybe 3 and I simply cannot imagine not having this list as a resource when
> needed. FM is still the tool of choice for several of my clients for many 
> reasons,
> and even after all these years, I still need a nudge in the right direction 
> or need
> to learn something new. I can't imagine that there are not others in the same
> boat.
> 
> I kinda' feel like we (the list users) have been left hanging and have not 
> been
> really given the whole scoop. I am more than willing to step to the role of 
> list
> admin part-time if someone else is willing to co-admin. I don't have the
> bandwidth for being a sole admin, but being a co-admin would be fine. At this
> point, the list traffic is light enough and the list members so well known 
> that I
> can't imagine having too many list issues such as a recruiting imposter, spam,
> etc.
> 
> If you're interested, p

Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?

[rick]

Hi All,
I am pretty sure I have the login information for the list. To be honest, I
tend to use the Adobe Forums for post and answer FrameMaker questions. I do
like the availability of this list too.
Rick

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 6:20 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?

Thank you I will let this email percolate over the weekend and then
reach out to Bernard and Rick to see how we pass the baton.

I sincerely appreciate your willingness to help out.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Harding, Dan
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 4:16 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?
> 
> Tammy,
> 
> If there's a need, I'm certainly willing to help out from a list admin 
> perspective, especially if it is a group/team effort. I've been 
> subscribed to the list since 2008 (at least that's as far back as my 
> saved emails from the list go). For background, while I took early 
> retirement from the University of Illinois 2 years ago, I still work 
> for the same department 6 months out of the year as a consultant, and 
> during that 6 months I am using FrameMaker daily, so I too still rely 
> on and check the list regularly (less regularly during my 6 months of
non-employment, but still check the list weekly at a minimum).
> 
> While I typically prune my contact information from list emails, I'm 
> including it below.
> 
> DAN HARDING
> Publications Manager
> Assistant Director, Information Technologies (Retired)
> 
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Tax School Department of 
> Agricultural and Consumer Economics
> 412 Mumford Hall | M/C 710
> 1301 W. Gregory Drive
> Urbana, IL 61801
> 217.333.0935 | fax: 217.244.5933 | dhard...@illinois.edu 
> taxschool.illinois.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act any written 
> communication to or from university employees regarding university 
> business is a public record and may be subject to public disclosure.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+dharding=illinois@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Tammy
> Van Boening
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 4:31 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Framers list admin?
> 
> OK,
> 
> I am sure that I am gonna' get excoriated by a few folks on this list 
> after this post, but at this point in my life and career, I am tough old
bird.
> 
> I had been trying to post to the list for the last two days w/out any 
> success. I was last able to reply to a post successfully on 8/25 and 
> then since that time (through 9/12), no joy. I reached out to Bernard 
> as the last that I heard is that he had stepped up to the plate to be 
> the list admin after Carol Elkins and Rick Quatro stepped back.
> 
> Eventually, after no response via the link at the bottom of all 
> emails, I called Bernard directly at his business.  Here is the email
response that I received:
> 
> ***
> ***
> ***
> Hello Tammy, thanks for reaching out. I don't even recall my password 
> for the list but might be able to find it. I'd suggest reaching out to 
> Rick Quattro. He's got full admin permissions in the system as well.
> 
> Uh, OK. The absolute >>LAST<< that I knew, Bernard was the list admin 
> and I have never seen a post to the otherwise; moreover, I actually 
> had a brief conversation with Rick Quatro a while back and he 
> explicitly stated that he was not the list admin, Bernard was.
> 
> I know that many of us on this list are getting long in the tooth, 
> myself definitely included, but I most certainly can still use the 
> support of the community at times. I intend to keep working for at 
> least the next 2 years, maybe 3 and I simply cannot imagine not having 
> this list as a resource when needed. FM is still the tool of choice 
> for several of my clients for many reasons, and even after all these 
> years, I still need a nudge in the right direction or need to learn 
> something new. I can't imagine that there are not others in the same boat.
> 
> I kinda' feel like we (the list users) have been left hanging and have 
> not been really given the whole scoop. I am more than willing

Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?

[Tammy Van Boening]

Thank you I will let this email percolate over the weekend and then reach 
out to Bernard and Rick to see how we pass the baton.

I sincerely appreciate your willingness to help out.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Harding, Dan
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 4:16 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?
> 
> Tammy,
> 
> If there's a need, I'm certainly willing to help out from a list admin 
> perspective,
> especially if it is a group/team effort. I've been subscribed to the list 
> since 2008
> (at least that's as far back as my saved emails from the list go). For
> background, while I took early retirement from the University of Illinois 2
> years ago, I still work for the same department 6 months out of the year as a
> consultant, and during that 6 months I am using FrameMaker daily, so I too
> still rely on and check the list regularly (less regularly during my 6 months 
> of
> non-employment, but still check the list weekly at a minimum).
> 
> While I typically prune my contact information from list emails, I'm 
> including it
> below.
> 
> DAN HARDING
> Publications Manager
> Assistant Director, Information Technologies (Retired)
> 
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Tax School Department of
> Agricultural and Consumer Economics
> 412 Mumford Hall | M/C 710
> 1301 W. Gregory Drive
> Urbana, IL 61801
> 217.333.0935 | fax: 217.244.5933 | dhard...@illinois.edu
> taxschool.illinois.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act any written communication to
> or from university employees regarding university business is a public record
> and may be subject to public disclosure.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+dharding=illinois@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Tammy
> Van Boening
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 4:31 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Framers list admin?
> 
> OK,
> 
> I am sure that I am gonna' get excoriated by a few folks on this list after 
> this
> post, but at this point in my life and career, I am tough old bird.
> 
> I had been trying to post to the list for the last two days w/out any 
> success. I
> was last able to reply to a post successfully on 8/25 and then since that time
> (through 9/12), no joy. I reached out to Bernard as the last that I heard is 
> that
> he had stepped up to the plate to be the list admin after Carol Elkins and 
> Rick
> Quatro stepped back.
> 
> Eventually, after no response via the link at the bottom of all emails, I 
> called
> Bernard directly at his business.  Here is the email response that I received:
> 
> ***
> ***
> ***
> Hello Tammy, thanks for reaching out. I don't even recall my password for the
> list but might be able to find it. I'd suggest reaching out to Rick Quattro. 
> He's
> got full admin permissions in the system as well.
> 
> Uh, OK. The absolute >>LAST<< that I knew, Bernard was the list admin and I
> have never seen a post to the otherwise; moreover, I actually had a brief
> conversation with Rick Quatro a while back and he explicitly stated that he 
> was
> not the list admin, Bernard was.
> 
> I know that many of us on this list are getting long in the tooth, myself
> definitely included, but I most certainly can still use the support of the
> community at times. I intend to keep working for at least the next 2 years,
> maybe 3 and I simply cannot imagine not having this list as a resource when
> needed. FM is still the tool of choice for several of my clients for many 
> reasons,
> and even after all these years, I still need a nudge in the right direction 
> or need
> to learn something new. I can't imagine that there are not others in the same
> boat.
> 
> I kinda' feel like we (the list users) have been left hanging and have not 
> been
> really given the whole scoop. I am more than willing to step to the role of 
> list
> admin part-time if someone else is willing to co-admin. I don't have the
> bandwidth for being a sole admin, but being a co-admin would be fine. At this
> point, the list traffic is light enough and the list members so well known 
> that I
> can't imagine having too many list issues such as a recruiting imposter, spam,
> etc

Re: [Framers] Framers list admin?

[Harding, Dan]

Tammy,

If there's a need, I'm certainly willing to help out from a list admin 
perspective, especially if it is a group/team effort. I've been subscribed to 
the list since 2008 (at least that's as far back as my saved emails from the 
list go). For background, while I took early retirement from the University of 
Illinois 2 years ago, I still work for the same department 6 months out of the 
year as a consultant, and during that 6 months I am using FrameMaker daily, so 
I too still rely on and check the list regularly (less regularly during my 6 
months of non-employment, but still check the list weekly at a minimum).

While I typically prune my contact information from list emails, I'm including 
it below.

DAN HARDING
Publications Manager
Assistant Director, Information Technologies (Retired)
 
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Tax School
Department of Agricultural and Consumer Economics
412 Mumford Hall | M/C 710
1301 W. Gregory Drive
Urbana, IL 61801
217.333.0935 | fax: 217.244.5933 | dhard...@illinois.edu
taxschool.illinois.edu
 
 



Under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act any written communication to or 
from university employees regarding university business is a public record and 
may be subject to public disclosure. 

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 4:31 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: [Framers] Framers list admin?

OK,

I am sure that I am gonna' get excoriated by a few folks on this list after 
this post, but at this point in my life and career, I am tough old bird.

I had been trying to post to the list for the last two days w/out any success. 
I was last able to reply to a post successfully on 8/25 and then since that 
time (through 9/12), no joy. I reached out to Bernard as the last that I heard 
is that he had stepped up to the plate to be the list admin after Carol Elkins 
and Rick Quatro stepped back.

Eventually, after no response via the link at the bottom of all emails, I 
called Bernard directly at his business.  Here is the email response that I 
received:

*
Hello Tammy, thanks for reaching out. I don't even recall my password for the 
list but might be able to find it. I'd suggest reaching out to Rick Quattro. 
He's got full admin permissions in the system as well.

Uh, OK. The absolute >>LAST<< that I knew, Bernard was the list admin and I 
have never seen a post to the otherwise; moreover, I actually had a brief 
conversation with Rick Quatro a while back and he explicitly stated that he was 
not the list admin, Bernard was.

I know that many of us on this list are getting long in the tooth, myself 
definitely included, but I most certainly can still use the support of the 
community at times. I intend to keep working for at least the next 2 years, 
maybe 3 and I simply cannot imagine not having this list as a resource when 
needed. FM is still the tool of choice for several of my clients for many 
reasons, and even after all these years, I still need a nudge in the right 
direction or need to learn something new. I can't imagine that there are not 
others in the same boat.

I kinda' feel like we (the list users) have been left hanging and have not been 
really given the whole scoop. I am more than willing to step to the role of 
list admin part-time if someone else is willing to co-admin. I don't have the 
bandwidth for being a sole admin, but being a co-admin would be fine. At this 
point, the list traffic is light enough and the list members so well known that 
I can't imagine having too many list issues such as a recruiting imposter, 
spam, etc.

If you're interested, please just respond to this email directly on list 
because if we several folks willing to step up, that would lighten the burden 
for all of us, but still keep a very necessary resource for so many of us 
active.

Thanks for reading!

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com__;!!DZ3fjg!_1bUA9a766_x5TstYjIswbZGlpCf6g29ajxKTcojZo5-W-Qe-HDpsG37TFgBLJqd-LHWbM5R63_kMWmC1J9oTCndEQ37$
 



___

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Re: [Framers] Section in a book

[Tammy Van Boening]

Thanks Klaus, and everyone else. I am good to go now and it's much appreciated.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Julie A. Sigrist
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 7:14 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
> 
> https://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/using-framemaker/user-
> guide/frm_books_bk-book-groups-and-folders.html#topic_book-groups-
> and-folders__section_book-groups
> 
> You are right, there is very little information out there about "Groups". 
> There is
> an icon next to the add a folder icon that will add a group or it is available
> under the Insert menu when you have the book selected.
> 
> Julie Sigrist
> 513-607-1444
> From: Framers  bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of
> Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 3:27 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
> 
> So, in the online "help" for FM2019, there's a section about all the different
> things that you can add to a book, and there is a single entry that states 
> "learn
> more about groups and how to add them," yet there is not a single
> explanation about what a group is/does and that statement is not even a link
> as the text implies. GRRR. . .
> 
> This list, as usual, is the source of help.
> 
> TVB
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  >
> bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bo
> u
> > bounces+nces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com>>
> On
> > bounces+Behalf
> > Of Julie A. Sigrist
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 7:56 AM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
> >
> > The difference between using a folder and a group when organizing
> > files in a book is that you can't control the volume, chapter, etc.
> > hierarchy in a group as you can in a folder structure.
> >
> > Julie Sigrist
> >
> >
> > From: Framers  > bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounc
> > bounces+es+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com>> On
> > bounces+Behalf Of
> > Tammy Van Boening
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 9:45 AM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Tammy Van Boening
> > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> >
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com> > ww.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>>
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Framers  > >
> >
> bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bo
> <
> >
> bounces+mailto:bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc.com@lists.frameuser
> s
> > bounces+.com%3cmailto:bo>
> > u
> > >
> bounces+nces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com > >
> bounces+nces+lto:bounces+nces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc.com@lists.f
> > > bounces+nces+rameusers.com>>>
> > On
> > > bounces+Behalf
> > > Of Julie A. Sigrist
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 5:38 AM
> > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > > mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com > > ilto:framers@lists.frameusers.com%3cmailto:framers@lists.frameusers.
> > > com>>>
> > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
> > >
> > > The icon with three squares is a "Group". I've never used the group
> > > feature so would have to do some research before answering further.
> > >
> > > Julie Sigrist
> > >
> >
> http://www.airbornemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com><http://www.air
> bor
> >
> nemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com>><http://www.air<http://www.air>
> > bor
> > >
> nemx.com/<http://nemx.com><http://www

Re: [Framers] Section in a book

[Julie A. Sigrist]

https://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/using-framemaker/user-guide/frm_books_bk-book-groups-and-folders.html#topic_book-groups-and-folders__section_book-groups

You are right, there is very little information out there about "Groups". There 
is an icon next to the add a folder icon that will add a group or it is 
available under the Insert menu when you have the book selected.

Julie Sigrist
513-607-1444
From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 3:27 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book

So, in the online "help" for FM2019, there's a section about all the different 
things that you can add to a book, and there is a single entry that states 
"learn more about groups and how to add them," yet there is not a single 
explanation about what a group is/does and that statement is not even a link as 
the text implies. GRRR. . .

This list, as usual, is the source of help.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com>>
>  On Behalf
> Of Julie A. Sigrist
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 7:56 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
>
> The difference between using a folder and a group when organizing files in a
> book is that you can't control the volume, chapter, etc. hierarchy in a group 
> as
> you can in a folder structure.
>
> Julie Sigrist
>
>
> From: Framers  bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com>>
>  On Behalf Of
> Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 9:45 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
>
> Thank you
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com><http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  >
> bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bo<mailto:bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com%3cmailto:bo>
> u
> > bounces+nces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+nces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com>>>
> On
> > bounces+Behalf
> > Of Julie A. Sigrist
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 5:38 AM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com%3cmailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>>
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
> >
> > The icon with three squares is a "Group". I've never used the group
> > feature so would have to do some research before answering further.
> >
> > Julie Sigrist
> >
> http://www.airbornemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com><http://www.airbornemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com>><http://www.air<http://www.air>
> bor
> > nemx.com/<http://nemx.com><http://www.airbornemx.com/<http://www.airbornemx.com/>>>
> > From: Framers  > bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounc<mailto:bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com%3cmailto:bounc>
> > bounces+es+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+es+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com>>>
> >  On
> > bounces+Behalf Of
> > Tammy Van Boening
> > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2023 3:36 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com%3cmailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>>
> > Subject: [Framers] Section in a book
> >
> > OK All,
> >
> > Please go gently with me. I am working with a book that I haven't
> > touched in a year for some things and like 7 years for others (no
> > joke). The book is in FM2019. I have a book structure where there is a
> > component that I have named Section followed by a manually entered
> > section number, such as Section 1, Section 2, etc. it's simply a
> > divider in the book that s

Re: [Framers] (Section in a book)

[Klaus]

Tammy, you may have a look at https://www.daube.ch/docu/files/compendium.pdf 
page 309
Klaus

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Re: [Framers] Section in a book

[Tammy Van Boening]

So, in the online "help" for FM2019, there's a section about all the different 
things that you can add to a book, and there is a single entry that states 
"learn more about groups and how to add them," yet there is not a single 
explanation about what a group is/does and that statement is not even a link as 
the text implies. GRRR. . .  

This list, as usual, is the source of help.

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Julie A. Sigrist
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 7:56 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
> 
> The difference between using a folder and a group when organizing files in a
> book is that you can't control the volume, chapter, etc. hierarchy in a group 
> as
> you can in a folder structure.
> 
> Julie Sigrist
> 
> 
> From: Framers  bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of
> Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 9:45 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  >
> bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bo
> u
> > bounces+nces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com>>
> On
> > bounces+Behalf
> > Of Julie A. Sigrist
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 5:38 AM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
> >
> > The icon with three squares is a "Group". I've never used the group
> > feature so would have to do some research before answering further.
> >
> > Julie Sigrist
> >
> http://www.airbornemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com><http://www.air
> bor
> > nemx.com/<http://www.airbornemx.com/>>
> > From: Framers  > bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounc
> > bounces+es+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com>> On
> > bounces+Behalf Of
> > Tammy Van Boening
> > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2023 3:36 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> > Subject: [Framers] Section in a book
> >
> > OK All,
> >
> > Please go gently with me. I am working with a book that I haven't
> > touched in a year for some things and like 7 years for others (no
> > joke). The book is in FM2019. I have a book structure where there is a
> > component that I have named Section followed by a manually entered
> > section number, such as Section 1, Section 2, etc. it's simply a
> > divider in the book that shows the different sections of the book. The
> > icon for it is a square w/ three little squares in it and I can
> > expand/collapse this icon to show all the actual FM files underneath the
> section indicator.
> >
> > OK, how in the frick' did I create these little placeholders that
> > aren't FM files, but just placeholders in the overall book structure
> > to keep/maintain different groups of files in the book? For the life
> > of me, I can't figure out how I did this and I don't see any option in
> > the icon/toolbar above the book for adding a book section. G. . .
> >
> > I have googled this and also used the FM2019 help to no avail, and I
> > desperately need to add a few more sections to this book.
> >
> > TIA!
> >
> > TVB (whose aging mind is showing w/ this question!)
> >
> >
> > Tammy Van Boening
> > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> >
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com> > ww.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to
> > framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com >
> o:framers@lists.frameusers.com%3cmailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> > Visit the list's homepage at
> >
> http://www.frameusers.com<http://www.frame

Re: [Framers] Section in a book

[Julie A. Sigrist]

The difference between using a folder and a group when organizing files in a 
book is that you can't control the volume, chapter, etc. hierarchy in a group 
as you can in a folder structure.

Julie Sigrist


From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 9:45 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book

Thank you

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com>>
>  On Behalf
> Of Julie A. Sigrist
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 5:38 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
>
> The icon with three squares is a "Group". I've never used the group feature so
> would have to do some research before answering further.
>
> Julie Sigrist
> http://www.airbornemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com><http://www.airbornemx.com/<http://www.airbornemx.com/>>
> From: Framers  bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com>>
>  On Behalf Of
> Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2023 3:36 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
> Subject: [Framers] Section in a book
>
> OK All,
>
> Please go gently with me. I am working with a book that I haven't touched in a
> year for some things and like 7 years for others (no joke). The book is in
> FM2019. I have a book structure where there is a component that I have
> named Section followed by a manually entered section number, such as
> Section 1, Section 2, etc. it's simply a divider in the book that shows the
> different sections of the book. The icon for it is a square w/ three little 
> squares
> in it and I can expand/collapse this icon to show all the actual FM files
> underneath the section indicator.
>
> OK, how in the frick' did I create these little placeholders that aren't FM 
> files,
> but just placeholders in the overall book structure to keep/maintain different
> groups of files in the book? For the life of me, I can't figure out how I did 
> this
> and I don't see any option in the icon/toolbar above the book for adding a
> book section. G. . .
>
> I have googled this and also used the FM2019 help to no avail, and I
> desperately need to add a few more sections to this book.
>
> TIA!
>
> TVB (whose aging mind is showing w/ this question!)
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com><http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to
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> Visit the list's homepage at
> http://www.frameusers.com<http://www.frameusers.com><http://www.frameusers.com<http://www.frameusers.com>>
> Archives located at http://www.mail-<http://www.mail->
> archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/<http://archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com><http://www.mail-<http://www.mail->
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> Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
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> Subscribe and unsubscribe 

Re: [Framers] Section in a book

[Tammy Van Boening]

Thanks!

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Principal/Owner
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
303-840-1755

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Johan Anglemark
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 1:58 AM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
> 
>Hi Tammy,
> 
>This message certainly made it to the list, even if you for some reason
>didn't get it.
> 
>-j
> 
>On 2023-09-11 21:36, Tammy Van Boening wrote:
> 
> OK All,
> 
> Please go gently with me. I am working with a book that I haven't touched in a
> y ear for some things and like 7 years for others (no joke). The book is in
> FM2019 . I have a book structure where there is a component that I have
> named Section f ollowed by a  manually entered section number, such as
> Section 1, Section 2, et c. it's simply a divider in the book that shows the
> different sections of the bo ok. The icon for it is a square w/ three little 
> squares
> in it and I can expand/c ollapse this icon to show all the actual FM files
> underneath the section indicat or.
> 
> OK, how in the frick' did I create these little placeholders that aren't FM 
> file s,
> but just placeholders in the overall book structure to keep/maintain differen 
> t
> groups of files in the book? For the life of me, I can't figure out how I did 
> this
> and I don't see any option in the icon/toolbar above the book for adding a
> book section. G. . .
> 
> I have googled this and also used the FM2019 help to no avail, and I
> desperately  need to add a few more sections to this book.
> 
> TIA!
> 
> TVB (whose aging mind is showing w/ this question!)
> 
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at
> http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-
> archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Section in a book

[Tammy Van Boening]

Thank you

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf
> Of Julie A. Sigrist
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 5:38 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Section in a book
> 
> The icon with three squares is a "Group". I've never used the group feature so
> would have to do some research before answering further.
> 
> Julie Sigrist
> http://www.airbornemx.com<http://www.airbornemx.com/>
> From: Framers  bounces+julie.sigrist=airbornemx@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of
> Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2023 3:36 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Section in a book
> 
> OK All,
> 
> Please go gently with me. I am working with a book that I haven't touched in a
> year for some things and like 7 years for others (no joke). The book is in
> FM2019. I have a book structure where there is a component that I have
> named Section followed by a manually entered section number, such as
> Section 1, Section 2, etc. it's simply a divider in the book that shows the
> different sections of the book. The icon for it is a square w/ three little 
> squares
> in it and I can expand/collapse this icon to show all the actual FM files
> underneath the section indicator.
> 
> OK, how in the frick' did I create these little placeholders that aren't FM 
> files,
> but just placeholders in the overall book structure to keep/maintain different
> groups of files in the book? For the life of me, I can't figure out how I did 
> this
> and I don't see any option in the icon/toolbar above the book for adding a
> book section. G. . .
> 
> I have googled this and also used the FM2019 help to no avail, and I
> desperately need to add a few more sections to this book.
> 
> TIA!
> 
> TVB (whose aging mind is showing w/ this question!)
> 
> 
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com<http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
> Send messages to
> framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Visit the list's homepage at
> http://www.frameusers.com<http://www.frameusers.com>
> Archives located at http://www.mail-
> archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/<http://www.mail-
> archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com>
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-
> frameusers.com<http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-
> frameusers.com>
> Send administrative questions to
> listad...@frameusers.com<mailto:listad...@frameusers.com>
> ___
> 
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> 
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Re: [Framers] Free FrameMaker Generated Files Course

[Julie A. Sigrist]

Rick, The YouTube videos look good. You included so many topics that I learned 
the hard way, trial and error. I would definitely recommend them to someone 
starting out with FrameMaker books.

Julie Sigrist
513-607-1444
From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2023 4:02 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 209, Issue 1

Send Framers mailing list submissions to 
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When replying, please edit your
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Today's Topics:

1. ANN: Free FrameMaker Generated Files Course 
(r...@rickquatro.com<mailto:r...@rickquatro.com>)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 13:05:26 -0400
From: mailto:r...@rickquatro.com>>
To: "'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'"
mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>
Subject: [Framers] ANN: Free FrameMaker Generated Files Course
Message-ID: 
<01e701d9e1ad$7fc52a80$7f4f7f80$@rickquatro.com<mailto:01e701d9e1ad$7fc52a80$7f4f7f80$@rickquatro.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi All,

Take a look at my comprehensive FrameMaker Generated Files videos on
YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRPNZaAC4LoRu8VxIaUK5eV_lqmG80qUj<https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRPNZaAC4LoRu8VxIaUK5eV_lqmG80qUj>

If the content is helpful, please like and subscribe. Thank you!

Rick



Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
www.frameexpert.com<http://www.frameexpert.com> 
<http://www.frameexpert.com<http://www.frameexpert.com>>
585-729-6746



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