Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games wasRe:LookingForSomething New to Play
Hi Thomas, I'm not sure that I could write Dungeon Master to randomly pick a personality for each woman as you walked into that room. Well not as it is written now anyway. You know because each woman is tied or positioned some what for what she likes. And then there is that items are located throughout the castle, so you might end up needing to explore the entire castle to find an item. And then go back to the woman and use the item and then she gives you an item. I just think that it might make it confusing. But I do get your point about no replay value. I find the same with text adventure games etc. That is why most of the games that I write are card games, board games, dice games and arcade type games that have so much randomness in them. Happy Easter. BFN Jim I'm looking for some good Easter grass. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re:LookingForSomething New to Play
Hi Jim, Well, its not so much you aren't good at designing personalities but you don't very them enough. I think what I would do is have a generator of some kind that picks from a possible list of personalities so that if you walk in the room with the fireplace the girl there will have a different fetish each time. One time she likes being spanked. Another time she wants tickled. In another game she wants to be restrained. That's more work, but I think would increase the replay value as you will have to figure out what personality you are dealing with there. That said, its not just your game that has this problem. Most adult interactive fiction games have the same problem in that they aren't very random. Once you resolve the game, score with all the girls, it loses something in the replay value department because each time you play the game is the same from game to game. For example, one adult game I played, Star Trek The Sexed Generation, is about a new officer of the Enterprise who goes around seducing various women on the command staff such as Counselor Troi, Dr. Crusher, Lieutenant Yar, and so forth. It was interesting the first time through, but once you resolve all the puzzles it never changes. If you want to have sex with Lieutenant Yar you need to find the combat training program for the holodeck and run it. After that go to security and fight Yar for the right to bed her. OK, that's fine enough but the fight isn't random at all. Once you practice in the holodeck the fight is predetermined. So there is no challenge once you know what is needed to get Yar to sleep with you. If I had written that game I would have made the fight more random and perhaps use some stats. The training program would increase your likelihood of winning, but the outcome would be luck more than some predetermined set of rules like if x is true then do y. I think some similar randomization is needed here with your game. Ultimately its your game and I leave it up to you how to design it, but I think the design could be improved. Cheers! On 3/29/13, Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net wrote: Hi Thomas, Yeah, my idea for Dungeon Master was that each woman had a very specific foreplay that she likes. So the goal of the game is to figure that out and to have the item or items that may be needed. Guess that I am not good at writing personalities. Probably especially not female ones. On level 2 of the dungeon you can use both the long handled nylon brush and three foot bull whip on the woman in the stocks and the woman on the bondage rack to rack up some points. BFN --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re:LookingForSomething New to Play
Hi Thomas, Yeah, my idea for Dungeon Master was that each woman had a very specific foreplay that she likes. So the goal of the game is to figure that out and to have the item or items that may be needed. Guess that I am not good at writing personalities. Probably especially not female ones. On level 2 of the dungeon you can use both the long handled nylon brush and three foot bull whip on the woman in the stocks and the woman on the bondage rack to rack up some points. BFN - Original Message - Hi Jim, Oh, I do see the problem. I admit that after I beat the Dungeon Master game I haven't played it more than a couple of times just because there is nothing new to it. The ladies are different, but other than that its essentially all the same right down to the descriptions and such. It would help if when you were having sex with a girl, for example, if it had a dozen different descriptions of the act in progress to choose from at random. Perhaps some girls like more of this or that. As it stands now the girls lack personality and it doesn't matter if the girl is Jenny or Michelle you are going to get the exact same reaction and response each and every time. In short, the game has an nice concept with some bondage and discipline, but the player has absolutely no control over the action and no variation from game to game. For example, the woman in the room with the fireplace gets off by being spanked with a cane. No problem, but what if I want to spank the girl tied to the table or the one laying in the bedroom? Well, it doesn't do anything and it would be nice if I could get some reaction from the girls like that feels good or do it again rather than the default response. It might not bee enough to fully excite her, but should give me a bit of pleasure of teasing her using various other means before bringing her to climax. Like I said I just grew board with the game because it didn't seem like that there was much to do. I could think of a hundred different ways to play out a scenario, but the game wasn't designed to do it that way. So I gave up on it.. Cheers! Jim Come play with me on my bondage rack. We're bound to have fun. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking ForSomething New to Play
I agree with your original rampage, but I can see Tom's point, too. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Ibrahim Gucukoglu ibrahim_gucuko...@sent.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking ForSomething New to Play Hi Thomas. I'm sorry, both to you and Shaun, it just gets me sometimes the attitude on here, the ingratitude. I never suggested James intended to cut and run, however he did and I personally paid for games which were never received such as Max Shrapnel. My problem lies in the fact that it looked like Shaun was ripping in to you, telling you to abandon MOTA and start again and I guess his email and the way it was phrased got my goat up. I am just as keen as everyone else to see new games developed for the AG community, however they aren't or at least not as rapidly, certainly not as intensely being produced, so anyone flaming or otherwise discouraging fellow developers has to be resisted if not squashed before it gets started right? Everyone has their bugbears and that was just mine, it certainly wasn't my intention to piss anyone off. All the best, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 8:48 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play Hi all, I'm coming to this post a bit late, but please let's stop the flaming here. No matter how we all feel about the unfortunate situation with James North, what was it, six years ago its really passed time to put it behind us. I can understand your frustration with some list members such as Shaun but ripping him a new one on list isn't the way to handle it. :D Ibrahim, regarding the games James North had in production I said this before and I will say it again I am certain it wasn't his intent to take the money and run. After all, I have in my possession the source code for three different games he was working on, and know for a fact he was working on them. However, it is my belief the stress, the pressure, the demands of certain individuals in this community that resulted in him just throwing in the towel and walking away from it all. Leaving as he did was wrong, but its also understandable. End of story. On 3/25/13, Ibrahim Gucukoglu ibrahim_gucuko...@sent.com wrote: Hi Shaun. Jesus Christ, Shaun, your attitude absolutely sucks. James North was a brilliant innovator, his games are testaments to what can be achieved with diligence, commitment and passion. Sadly James lost that passion because of individuals like you, always pushing for more, always wining about inadequacies, always piling on the pressure for this and that to be released. James might have been a negligent developer in the end, he might have lost interest and heart in the blind community, but it was only because of the base ingratitude of so many people. In the end, I wouldn't have been surprised if he wasn't above ripping off people with promises of games he never intended to release, or perhaps he did, but put them on the back burner. Whatever, he had a life too, and so far in my soul opinion, games like Monkey Business, ESP Pinball Classic, Chain Reaction, Alien Outback and Dynaman just go to show the wide range of his talents as a developer. The blind gaming community lost a true innovator when he stopped developing and disappeared, I doubt he'd ever have anything to do with the blind strata of society ever again after what he experienced. Now you dare to take pot shots at Thomas Ward who out of his own pocket for the most part is developing MOTA, I wouldn't be surprised if shits like you don't end up pushing us back to an age when all we can play are text based RPG and MUD games, text adventure and the like because no one wants to develop for us. Rant over, if you want to participate in our community, do it constructively, otherwise it might be wise for you to unsubscribe. All the best, Ibrahim. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
no problem, I never started the stuff with james or pushed him, I heard things on here and ofcause the rumors and other junk never concentrated on it. I however was worried about burnout, james eventually did it and after tom saying he had motivational issues with his stuff I was scared of burn out. maybe I put to much of my worries into my mail, I sertainly don't speak the way I write they are 2 different things. At 06:06 PM 3/28/2013, you wrote: Hi Thomas. I'm sorry, both to you and Shaun, it just gets me sometimes the attitude on here, the ingratitude. I never suggested James intended to cut and run, however he did and I personally paid for games which were never received such as Max Shrapnel. My problem lies in the fact that it looked like Shaun was ripping in to you, telling you to abandon MOTA and start again and I guess his email and the way it was phrased got my goat up. I am just as keen as everyone else to see new games developed for the AG community, however they aren't or at least not as rapidly, certainly not as intensely being produced, so anyone flaming or otherwise discouraging fellow developers has to be resisted if not squashed before it gets started right? Everyone has their bugbears and that was just mine, it certainly wasn't my intention to piss anyone off. All the best, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 8:48 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play Hi all, I'm coming to this post a bit late, but please let's stop the flaming here. No matter how we all feel about the unfortunate situation with James North, what was it, six years ago its really passed time to put it behind us. I can understand your frustration with some list members such as Shaun but ripping him a new one on list isn't the way to handle it. :D Ibrahim, regarding the games James North had in production I said this before and I will say it again I am certain it wasn't his intent to take the money and run. After all, I have in my possession the source code for three different games he was working on, and know for a fact he was working on them. However, it is my belief the stress, the pressure, the demands of certain individuals in this community that resulted in him just throwing in the towel and walking away from it all. Leaving as he did was wrong, but its also understandable. End of story. On 3/25/13, Ibrahim Gucukoglu ibrahim_gucuko...@sent.com wrote: Hi Shaun. Jesus Christ, Shaun, your attitude absolutely sucks. James North was a brilliant innovator, his games are testaments to what can be achieved with diligence, commitment and passion. Sadly James lost that passion because of individuals like you, always pushing for more, always wining about inadequacies, always piling on the pressure for this and that to be released. James might have been a negligent developer in the end, he might have lost interest and heart in the blind community, but it was only because of the base ingratitude of so many people. In the end, I wouldn't have been surprised if he wasn't above ripping off people with promises of games he never intended to release, or perhaps he did, but put them on the back burner. Whatever, he had a life too, and so far in my soul opinion, games like Monkey Business, ESP Pinball Classic, Chain Reaction, Alien Outback and Dynaman just go to show the wide range of his talents as a developer. The blind gaming community lost a true innovator when he stopped developing and disappeared, I doubt he'd ever have anything to do with the blind strata of society ever again after what he experienced. Now you dare to take pot shots at Thomas Ward who out of his own pocket for the most part is developing MOTA, I wouldn't be surprised if shits like you don't end up pushing us back to an age when all we can play are text based RPG and MUD games, text adventure and the like because no one wants to develop for us. Rant over, if you want to participate in our community, do it constructively, otherwise it might be wise for you to unsubscribe. All the best, Ibrahim. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: LookingForSomething New to Play
Hi Thomas, You know I love the challenge of creating games, but I also want to be able to play them. Guess that is why my games are card games, board games, sports games, arcade games etc with so much dependency on random events. I can play them and actually have no advantage over others that play them. Don't think that I ever won any of the golf tournaments that I have been in. Had the best time on some Mach 1 tracks, but not always. And others do get better scores in such games as Puppy 1 etc. I am thinking about it, but am not sure if it would work out well to randomize the rooms in Dungeon Master. You might end up having to explore the entire castle looking for the item that you need for the first lady slash room. Or you might right off get the cell phone. But you would need to find the pantry before long. Sure was a fun game to design and create, but I have not played it over and over like some of my other games. BFN Jim I'm looking for some good Easter grass. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: LookingForSomething New to Play
Hi Jim, Oh, I do see the problem. I admit that after I beat the Dungeon Master game I haven't played it more than a couple of times just because there is nothing new to it. The ladies are different, but other than that its essentially all the same right down to the descriptions and such. It would help if when you were having sex with a girl, for example, if it had a dozen different descriptions of the act in progress to choose from at random. Perhaps some girls like more of this or that. As it stands now the girls lack personality and it doesn't matter if the girl is Jenny or Michelle you are going to get the exact same reaction and response each and every time. In short, the game has an nice concept with some bondage and discipline, but the player has absolutely no control over the action and no variation from game to game. For example, the woman in the room with the fireplace gets off by being spanked with a cane. No problem, but what if I want to spank the girl tied to the table or the one laying in the bedroom? Well, it doesn't do anything and it would be nice if I could get some reaction from the girls like that feels good or do it again rather than the default response. It might not bee enough to fully excite her, but should give me a bit of pleasure of teasing her using various other means before bringing her to climax. Like I said I just grew board with the game because it didn't seem like that there was much to do. I could think of a hundred different ways to play out a scenario, but the game wasn't designed to do it that way. So I gave up on it.. Cheers! On 3/28/13, Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net wrote: Hi Thomas, You know I love the challenge of creating games, but I also want to be able to play them. Guess that is why my games are card games, board games, sports games, arcade games etc with so much dependency on random events. I can play them and actually have no advantage over others that play them. Don't think that I ever won any of the golf tournaments that I have been in. Had the best time on some Mach 1 tracks, but not always. And others do get better scores in such games as Puppy 1 etc. I am thinking about it, but am not sure if it would work out well to randomize the rooms in Dungeon Master. You might end up having to explore the entire castle looking for the item that you need for the first lady slash room. Or you might right off get the cell phone. But you would need to find the pantry before long. Sure was a fun game to design and create, but I have not played it over and over like some of my other games. BFN Jim --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Ibrahim, Yes, I do see what you mean. I get a little sick and tired of the ingratitude. of some people too, but I've reached a point where its just words and it doesn't matter any more. I just let it roll off me rather than let it get to me. While I agree Shaun's message was misplaced, kind of irritated me too at the suggestion of just scrapping all the work I've done, I understand the intent behind that suggestion. As Shaun himself has said he was worried about me burning out, and he felt it would be better if I just cut my losses and started over fresh. If I weren't the person I am I might just slap together an old beta, release it, and call it quits. However, that wouldn't be moral or ethical and I am inclined not to do something like that if I can help it which is why I do intend a resolution to the preorder situation as soon as I can do so. :D Cheers! On 3/28/13, Ibrahim Gucukoglu ibrahim_gucuko...@sent.com wrote: Hi Thomas. I'm sorry, both to you and Shaun, it just gets me sometimes the attitude on here, the ingratitude. I never suggested James intended to cut and run, however he did and I personally paid for games which were never received such as Max Shrapnel. My problem lies in the fact that it looked like Shaun was ripping in to you, telling you to abandon MOTA and start again and I guess his email and the way it was phrased got my goat up. I am just as keen as everyone else to see new games developed for the AG community, however they aren't or at least not as rapidly, certainly not as intensely being produced, so anyone flaming or otherwise discouraging fellow developers has to be resisted if not squashed before it gets started right? Everyone has their bugbears and that was just mine, it certainly wasn't my intention to piss anyone off. All the best, Ibrahim. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
I think the issue is how we convert games that are sighted to the blind. I know that compaired to the sighted games our games are probably of no real interest to the sighted. they lack scope and other concepts that they are used to. However its not like we have much choice. There are only so many sounds we can have active at once before we overload our ears. How do we convert the games from the poor low grade to what the sighted are used to. Ofcause the truth of the matter, is that the blind can't design games. Ok we can design games but a totally blind person really does not know what the sighted play or how it will work. I was born blind and when I started I heard a sound, if it was correct good good but really I had no idea and randomly bashed the board. Ofcause for those with consoles you may have been able to have some insite and for those that grew up with mainstream games that would give you a grounding or if you were hard core enough to upskill yourself in such things. I wager though that for those that never saw like me or were not in the right setting or had the equipment to experiment that mainstream concepts are as alien as well seeing. Even I don't understand all of them though I am trying. I must admit I still like the blindy games because I can play them easily. Now if it ever became the norm, maybe but still. There is left right up and down, nothing in between. swamp does open up bits as does a game like tactical battle. However we havn't progressed that much for the last 5-10 years. its only in the last 3-4 years that we have been able to get a head. I don't blaim anyone for this, blind games were after all started by the blind. At first there were not to many players both blind and sighted that were interested and even now there are only a few. So will we grow? probably but it will be in spirts and vellys where we wait for the next eruption. Right now we are in one of those vallys, with most of the stuff bar a few games slogging along. we started in a big rush and now we wait for the next one and that is probably how it will be till more devs go on board. Right now we need blind but also sighted devs willing to convert. myself I would dearly like to see some of those games I missed with propper sfx and music of the time. the retro shadowgate and mario and sonic games are quite good but probably because we havn't got to them yet ourselves still good. We have far to many arcaders, card games and board games though I'd still like to see ulsas and risk myself. Then there is battle chess which was a game I played with friends on an amiga its the same as chess except pieces do battle. bits are cut off etc. I never learned the rules of that but even then it was still entertaining. The games I like a lot to are those like silent steel. you have a story, a full story and where some things need to be done you take over as a char in that story and can choose your path. At 05:03 PM 3/27/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark, Sure. I do understand your point of view as it is rather distressing to know how many V.I. gamers assume that something like Q9 is the be all and end all to side-scrollers when guys like you and I know better. Fact of the matter is that for better than a decade side-scrollers were the primary style of games for Nintendo, Sega, and PC and it gave rise to such popular series as Megaman, Super Mario, Donkey Kong, Castlevania, and so on. Since I figure the majority of blind PC users were unable to fully enjoy the original side-scrollers they are lacking some huge conceptual differences between a simple side-scroller like Q9 and say Mario Brothers. There are a whole bunch of conceptual differences that just haven't been fully realized by the blind gaming community. For far too long a lot of games have you push the up arrow key and the left or right arrow key x time to jump a pit etc. This is not only very unrealistic, but lacks the skill and grace of games with a traditional analog jump system in place. Games where how high and far you jumped were based on a number of factors like if you were running before you jumped, weather or not you were jumping off a ledge,and how long you held down the jump button while using the directional cross to control the characters movement. Even when you landed you would occasionally bounce or slide which made it difficult for a precision pinpoint landing. Such things haven't been the norm in audio games, and I suspect it is because a true analog jump system requires good hand and eye coordination so yes we could use a few good side-scrollers of that type to at least introduce the V.I. community to what they are missing. At the same time I am personally equally conscious of the fact we haven't had many FPS games that lives up to mainstream standards. Yes, Shades of Doom is good, and yes Swamp introduces us to the online FPS type affair, but I've seen a lot of features that have never been introduced in any audio
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking ForSomething New to Play
Hi Dark, You know one thing about games that are all about exploration is that they are no fun for the author to play. Well unless there is lots of other random things in those areas. Just exploring is no fun if you wrote it and know it all already. My Dungeon Master game is the best example of that. Other than the random descriptions of the women in the rooms the game is always the same. So I think that is my worst game as far as replay value. BFN Jim I'm looking for some good Easter grass. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
How can the moves you mention here be accurately judged through sound rather than eyes? We would need good hand/ear coordination, and some of that might be hard to represent with the capabilities of the soundcards and/or machines that some blind people can afford. As for Shades of Doom, one thing that throws me is when I hear something in front of me, I face it and move forward, only to bump into a wall. I know it's on the other side of the wall, but the idea seems weird at first. It's just something I have to keep in mind when playing, I suppose. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play Hi Dark, Sure. I do understand your point of view as it is rather distressing to know how many V.I. gamers assume that something like Q9 is the be all and end all to side-scrollers when guys like you and I know better. Fact of the matter is that for better than a decade side-scrollers were the primary style of games for Nintendo, Sega, and PC and it gave rise to such popular series as Megaman, Super Mario, Donkey Kong, Castlevania, and so on. Since I figure the majority of blind PC users were unable to fully enjoy the original side-scrollers they are lacking some huge conceptual differences between a simple side-scroller like Q9 and say Mario Brothers. There are a whole bunch of conceptual differences that just haven't been fully realized by the blind gaming community. For far too long a lot of games have you push the up arrow key and the left or right arrow key x time to jump a pit etc. This is not only very unrealistic, but lacks the skill and grace of games with a traditional analog jump system in place. Games where how high and far you jumped were based on a number of factors like if you were running before you jumped, weather or not you were jumping off a ledge,and how long you held down the jump button while using the directional cross to control the characters movement. Even when you landed you would occasionally bounce or slide which made it difficult for a precision pinpoint landing. Such things haven't been the norm in audio games, and I suspect it is because a true analog jump system requires good hand and eye coordination so yes we could use a few good side-scrollers of that type to at least introduce the V.I. community to what they are missing. At the same time I am personally equally conscious of the fact we haven't had many FPS games that lives up to mainstream standards. Yes, Shades of Doom is good, and yes Swamp introduces us to the online FPS type affair, but I've seen a lot of features that have never been introduced in any audio game for one reason or another. Let's take a Third Person Shooter like the infamous tomb Raider for example. In that series you can get Lara Croft to perform a wide range of acrobatic maneuvers above and beyond just jumps. She can do summersaults, flips, rolls, and swan dive off a ledge into a lake. She can safety drop from ledges, swing from ropes and vines, army crawl under swirling blades, as well as run up to a ledge etc and vault over it. In Tomb Raider Legend and Anniversary Lara carries a grappling hook which she uses to swing over traps and to climb up to areas of the tomb inaccessible through any other means. Point being that there are a lot of aspects to a full on 3d game that no 2d side-scroller can quite compare to. Regarding nav systems I have to agree here. Monkey Business was imprecise, and I'm not quite sure why that was. However, I do know of the issue you speak of where you would here the beep, beep, beep of the object locator only to walk past the item, or walk around it several times before picking up the coin, sword, or whatever it was you were trying to pik up. Oh, that use to bug the heck out of me. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking ForSomething New to Play
I aggree a lot of games need random events ofcause you need to do it in such a way as the player thinks things are random. In smuglers there is a limit of something like 9 story passages but you would never know there was. At 01:26 AM 3/28/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark, You know one thing about games that are all about exploration is that they are no fun for the author to play. Well unless there is lots of other random things in those areas. Just exploring is no fun if you wrote it and know it all already. My Dungeon Master game is the best example of that. Other than the random descriptions of the women in the rooms the game is always the same. So I think that is my worst game as far as replay value. BFN Jim I'm looking for some good Easter grass. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi all, I'm coming to this post a bit late, but please let's stop the flaming here. No matter how we all feel about the unfortunate situation with James North, what was it, six years ago its really passed time to put it behind us. I can understand your frustration with some list members such as Shaun but ripping him a new one on list isn't the way to handle it. :D Ibrahim, regarding the games James North had in production I said this before and I will say it again I am certain it wasn't his intent to take the money and run. After all, I have in my possession the source code for three different games he was working on, and know for a fact he was working on them. However, it is my belief the stress, the pressure, the demands of certain individuals in this community that resulted in him just throwing in the towel and walking away from it all. Leaving as he did was wrong, but its also understandable. End of story. On 3/25/13, Ibrahim Gucukoglu ibrahim_gucuko...@sent.com wrote: Hi Shaun. Jesus Christ, Shaun, your attitude absolutely sucks. James North was a brilliant innovator, his games are testaments to what can be achieved with diligence, commitment and passion. Sadly James lost that passion because of individuals like you, always pushing for more, always wining about inadequacies, always piling on the pressure for this and that to be released. James might have been a negligent developer in the end, he might have lost interest and heart in the blind community, but it was only because of the base ingratitude of so many people. In the end, I wouldn't have been surprised if he wasn't above ripping off people with promises of games he never intended to release, or perhaps he did, but put them on the back burner. Whatever, he had a life too, and so far in my soul opinion, games like Monkey Business, ESP Pinball Classic, Chain Reaction, Alien Outback and Dynaman just go to show the wide range of his talents as a developer. The blind gaming community lost a true innovator when he stopped developing and disappeared, I doubt he'd ever have anything to do with the blind strata of society ever again after what he experienced. Now you dare to take pot shots at Thomas Ward who out of his own pocket for the most part is developing MOTA, I wouldn't be surprised if shits like you don't end up pushing us back to an age when all we can play are text based RPG and MUD games, text adventure and the like because no one wants to develop for us. Rant over, if you want to participate in our community, do it constructively, otherwise it might be wise for you to unsubscribe. All the best, Ibrahim. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking ForSomething New to Play
Hi Shaun, Beyond random events I would like to see more complex programming techniques being used for things such as artificial intelligence. A good artificial intelligence doesn't use random choices, but actually bases intelligent decisions on statistical but uncertain data. How many times did the player throw a left hook verses a right jab etc. It can use those stats to try and block attacks based on how the game player behaves, and will learn from fighting you rather than just randomly attacking and blocking etc. That is why mainstream fighting games like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, and Marvel VS Capcom are so difficult to play because the artificial intelligence of the computer opponents is very good and can hold its own in a fight. On 3/27/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: I aggree a lot of games need random events ofcause you need to do it in such a way as the player thinks things are random. In smuglers there is a limit of something like 9 story passages but you would never know there was. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Charles, That's a good question, and one I've been experimenting with using my game engine. It can be done, but like everything else in life you need to practice at it to get good at it. In a way good hand and ear coordination isn't much different than good hand eye coordination provided the audio environment is up to the task. Regarding hardware I think most people have at least a standard 5.1 channel stereo sound card. The AC-97 chipset, which is on a lot of Realtech and Soundmax cards, comes with many standard HP, Compaq, Del, and Gateway computers. Point being if you have purchased a computer in the last five or six years chances are you probably have an AC-97 based card which can do 5.1 surround sound. Its not necessary to go out and buy a Creative Labs Soundblaster Autegy IV to get basic surround sound these days.. Besides its possible to get a decent headset for $99 or so that has 5.1 surround sound capabilities. These usually plug into a standard USB port, and have a built in sound mixer for doing advanced sound processing. So while on the high side I don't consider $99 to $150 for a decent headset too utterly expensive or beyond reason for an advanced gaming experience. That said, I think the biggest issue is some audio games don't update the state of the audio fast enough to accurately use sound for precise jumping. Its not that they can't but just that game developers aren't forcing the CPU to give more real time processing as it can be slightly intensive to update the 3d position of every sound every 20 milliseconds or so. That's only 50 frames per second, but some of the top end video games are running at 60 frames per second but eat more CPU power do to the amount of graphics they have to process at that rate so it equals out in the end. Basically, what I'm saying is its more than possible for a blind gamer to do the same kinds of moves as Lara Croft doing flips, rolls, swan dives, jumping over traps, crawling under swirling blades, etc even without a state-of-the-art computer setup. It might be less accurate to have a standard set of headphones and speakers, but I feel most people who have upgraded in the last few years probably have a system that is fast enough and has enough surround sound capabilities to pull it off in audio. It really just takes practice to develop good hand and ear coordination. How I can say that with assurance is based on personal experiences with games like Super Mario. In the beginning when you are learning a game you need time to practice good hand and eye coordination, to make the jumps, and in that game a lot depended on if Mario was big, small, or normal sized and so on. However, at some point when playing I built up a type of muscle memory that I really didn't think about it and reacted out of instinct or perhaps habit rather than focusing on the act of jumping itself. I think in time hand and ear coordination will work the same way. At some point a conscious act becomes an unconscious reaction based on doing it over and over and over again. On 3/27/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: How can the moves you mention here be accurately judged through sound rather than eyes? We would need good hand/ear coordination, and some of that might be hard to represent with the capabilities of the soundcards and/or machines that some blind people can afford. As for Shades of Doom, one thing that throws me is when I hear something in front of me, I face it and move forward, only to bump into a wall. I know it's on the other side of the wall, but the idea seems weird at first. It's just something I have to keep in mind when playing, I suppose. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking ForSomething New to Play
Hi Jim, Well, you have a good point there. The biggest problem with being the game developer is games, no matter how good the story, really hold no surprises for the developer himself or herself. If its about exploration you already know basically where every trap is, where every passage leads, and what should behind every door. About the only solution for that problem is a level generator or maze generator that basically randomly constructs a new level every game. I believe Entombs levels are done this way so no two games are exactly the same game. Plus if you randomly select and place items you will never find them in the same place from game to game. That helps restore some of the unexpected challenge to the game that a new gamer might feel towards your game. So in your adult dungeon game perhaps one solution would be to design a system where by the castle is randomly generated from game to game and the women are randomly placed accordingly. It would require a radical redesign of the game, but could be done to make it different from game to game. Cheers! On 3/27/13, Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net wrote: Hi Dark, You know one thing about games that are all about exploration is that they are no fun for the author to play. Well unless there is lots of other random things in those areas. Just exploring is no fun if you wrote it and know it all already. My Dungeon Master game is the best example of that. Other than the random descriptions of the women in the rooms the game is always the same. So I think that is my worst game as far as replay value. BFN Jim I'm looking for some good Easter grass. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Shaun, Yes, converting mainstream games, and more importantly concepts, to audio is a tricky business. There are some things I've encountered in mainstream video games I'm not quite sure how to convert to a completely audio based game. For example, in Tomb Raider: Last Revelation there is this room with this scale which Lara has to balance using jars of water she collected in a prior level. Filling the jars and balancing them is purely visual in Last Revelation, and I'm not quite sure how one might go about representing the same thing in audio. Oh, sure I could add a look or examine command that announces the percentage of water in each jar, but that would be a tedious task filling each jar until the scale is perfectly balanced to unlock the door. Perhaps the only way to do it is increase the pitch of the poring water as the jar fills with water and it would be a matter of reaching the correct pitch which would be as close as we can get to seeing the amount of water in the jar. Bottom line, converting some sighted mainstream games requires some creativity since some concepts just do not immediately lend themselves to an audio only environment. Yet it can be done if you are willing to experiment and work with what you have to fashion a workable solution. The big problem with the visually impaired community is, as you said, some of the game concepts in mainstream games are almost as alien as sight just because they haven't been put in the position of having puzzles like balancing a scale to unlock a door so the idea never occurs to them to try adding a puzzle like that to their audio games. Although, what amazes me is a lot of things audio games are missing are more basic than that. Some of our first side-scrollers like Super Liam were good games, but really lacked a 2d vertical element such as climbing trees, vines, ropes, etc. It was years before any audio game developer thought about allowing the player to go up and down besides just left to right which is so basic I wonder how or why that seems to have been ignored for so long. Cheers! On 3/27/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: I think the issue is how we convert games that are sighted to the blind. I know that compaired to the sighted games our games are probably of no real interest to the sighted. they lack scope and other concepts that they are used to. However its not like we have much choice. There are only so many sounds we can have active at once before we overload our ears. How do we convert the games from the poor low grade to what the sighted are used to. Ofcause the truth of the matter, is that the blind can't design games. Ok we can design games but a totally blind person really does not know what the sighted play or how it will work. I was born blind and when I started I heard a sound, if it was correct good good but really I had no idea and randomly bashed the board. Ofcause for those with consoles you may have been able to have some insite and for those that grew up with mainstream games that would give you a grounding or if you were hard core enough to upskill yourself in such things. I wager though that for those that never saw like me or were not in the right setting or had the equipment to experiment that mainstream concepts are as alien as well seeing. Even I don't understand all of them though I am trying. I must admit I still like the blindy games because I can play them easily. Now if it ever became the norm, maybe but still. There is left right up and down, nothing in between. swamp does open up bits as does a game like tactical battle. However we havn't progressed that much for the last 5-10 years. its only in the last 3-4 years that we have been able to get a head. I don't blaim anyone for this, blind games were after all started by the blind. At first there were not to many players both blind and sighted that were interested and even now there are only a few. So will we grow? probably but it will be in spirts and vellys where we wait for the next eruption. Right now we are in one of those vallys, with most of the stuff bar a few games slogging along. we started in a big rush and now we wait for the next one and that is probably how it will be till more devs go on board. Right now we need blind but also sighted devs willing to convert. myself I would dearly like to see some of those games I missed with propper sfx and music of the time. the retro shadowgate and mario and sonic games are quite good but probably because we havn't got to them yet ourselves still good. We have far to many arcaders, card games and board games though I'd still like to see ulsas and risk myself. Then there is battle chess which was a game I played with friends on an amiga its the same as chess except pieces do battle. bits are cut off etc. I never learned the rules of that but even then it was still entertaining. The games I like a lot to are those like silent
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Thomas May be slightly specific, but something like the audio soundscapes of the vOICe would be my form of suggestion for balancing something like this - different pitches left and right mean they're not level/equal, but, when the scan sound turns into a flat tone, then both ends/points are at the same level..? Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play Hi Shaun, Yes, converting mainstream games, and more importantly concepts, to audio is a tricky business. There are some things I've encountered in mainstream video games I'm not quite sure how to convert to a completely audio based game. For example, in Tomb Raider: Last Revelation there is this room with this scale which Lara has to balance using jars of water she collected in a prior level. Filling the jars and balancing them is purely visual in Last Revelation, and I'm not quite sure how one might go about representing the same thing in audio. Oh, sure I could add a look or examine command that announces the percentage of water in each jar, but that would be a tedious task filling each jar until the scale is perfectly balanced to unlock the door. Perhaps the only way to do it is increase the pitch of the poring water as the jar fills with water and it would be a matter of reaching the correct pitch which would be as close as we can get to seeing the amount of water in the jar. Bottom line, converting some sighted mainstream games requires some creativity since some concepts just do not immediately lend themselves to an audio only environment. Yet it can be done if you are willing to experiment and work with what you have to fashion a workable solution. The big problem with the visually impaired community is, as you said, some of the game concepts in mainstream games are almost as alien as sight just because they haven't been put in the position of having puzzles like balancing a scale to unlock a door so the idea never occurs to them to try adding a puzzle like that to their audio games. Although, what amazes me is a lot of things audio games are missing are more basic than that. Some of our first side-scrollers like Super Liam were good games, but really lacked a 2d vertical element such as climbing trees, vines, ropes, etc. It was years before any audio game developer thought about allowing the player to go up and down besides just left to right which is so basic I wonder how or why that seems to have been ignored for so long. Cheers! On 3/27/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: I think the issue is how we convert games that are sighted to the blind. I know that compaired to the sighted games our games are probably of no real interest to the sighted. they lack scope and other concepts that they are used to. However its not like we have much choice. There are only so many sounds we can have active at once before we overload our ears. How do we convert the games from the poor low grade to what the sighted are used to. Ofcause the truth of the matter, is that the blind can't design games. Ok we can design games but a totally blind person really does not know what the sighted play or how it will work. I was born blind and when I started I heard a sound, if it was correct good good but really I had no idea and randomly bashed the board. Ofcause for those with consoles you may have been able to have some insite and for those that grew up with mainstream games that would give you a grounding or if you were hard core enough to upskill yourself in such things. I wager though that for those that never saw like me or were not in the right setting or had the equipment to experiment that mainstream concepts are as alien as well seeing. Even I don't understand all of them though I am trying. I must admit I still like the blindy games because I can play them easily. Now if it ever became the norm, maybe but still. There is left right up and down, nothing in between. swamp does open up bits as does a game like tactical battle. However we havn't progressed that much for the last 5-10 years. its only in the last 3-4 years that we have been able to get a head. I don't blaim anyone for this, blind games were after all started by the blind. At first there were not to many players both blind and sighted that were interested and even now there are only a few. So will we grow? probably but it will be in spirts and vellys where we wait for the next eruption. Right now we are in one of those vallys, with most of the stuff bar a few games slogging along. we started in a big rush and now we wait for the next one and that is probably how it will be till more devs go on board. Right now we need blind but also sighted devs
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking ForSomething New to Play
Thats true tom most ais up to a point have been simple though we are starting to get more complex ones. I wish there was more from greymatter as this company was working on something. I say was because the last blog post was last year which doesn't mean squat however. At 09:55 AM 3/28/2013, you wrote: Hi Shaun, Beyond random events I would like to see more complex programming techniques being used for things such as artificial intelligence. A good artificial intelligence doesn't use random choices, but actually bases intelligent decisions on statistical but uncertain data. How many times did the player throw a left hook verses a right jab etc. It can use those stats to try and block attacks based on how the game player behaves, and will learn from fighting you rather than just randomly attacking and blocking etc. That is why mainstream fighting games like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, and Marvel VS Capcom are so difficult to play because the artificial intelligence of the computer opponents is very good and can hold its own in a fight. On 3/27/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: I aggree a lot of games need random events ofcause you need to do it in such a way as the player thinks things are random. In smuglers there is a limit of something like 9 story passages but you would never know there was. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
thats true tom. And after some experiences with the running of swamp test yesterday and a few other things I can see that as nice as my old dependable wrig is, its on the extremely low end. So yeas soon I may have to upgrade this piece of junk I have depended on, for the last 8 years or so. its just the way it is. At 10:27 AM 3/28/2013, you wrote: Hi Charles, That's a good question, and one I've been experimenting with using my game engine. It can be done, but like everything else in life you need to practice at it to get good at it. In a way good hand and ear coordination isn't much different than good hand eye coordination provided the audio environment is up to the task. Regarding hardware I think most people have at least a standard 5.1 channel stereo sound card. The AC-97 chipset, which is on a lot of Realtech and Soundmax cards, comes with many standard HP, Compaq, Del, and Gateway computers. Point being if you have purchased a computer in the last five or six years chances are you probably have an AC-97 based card which can do 5.1 surround sound. Its not necessary to go out and buy a Creative Labs Soundblaster Autegy IV to get basic surround sound these days.. Besides its possible to get a decent headset for $99 or so that has 5.1 surround sound capabilities. These usually plug into a standard USB port, and have a built in sound mixer for doing advanced sound processing. So while on the high side I don't consider $99 to $150 for a decent headset too utterly expensive or beyond reason for an advanced gaming experience. That said, I think the biggest issue is some audio games don't update the state of the audio fast enough to accurately use sound for precise jumping. Its not that they can't but just that game developers aren't forcing the CPU to give more real time processing as it can be slightly intensive to update the 3d position of every sound every 20 milliseconds or so. That's only 50 frames per second, but some of the top end video games are running at 60 frames per second but eat more CPU power do to the amount of graphics they have to process at that rate so it equals out in the end. Basically, what I'm saying is its more than possible for a blind gamer to do the same kinds of moves as Lara Croft doing flips, rolls, swan dives, jumping over traps, crawling under swirling blades, etc even without a state-of-the-art computer setup. It might be less accurate to have a standard set of headphones and speakers, but I feel most people who have upgraded in the last few years probably have a system that is fast enough and has enough surround sound capabilities to pull it off in audio. It really just takes practice to develop good hand and ear coordination. How I can say that with assurance is based on personal experiences with games like Super Mario. In the beginning when you are learning a game you need time to practice good hand and eye coordination, to make the jumps, and in that game a lot depended on if Mario was big, small, or normal sized and so on. However, at some point when playing I built up a type of muscle memory that I really didn't think about it and reacted out of instinct or perhaps habit rather than focusing on the act of jumping itself. I think in time hand and ear coordination will work the same way. At some point a conscious act becomes an unconscious reaction based on doing it over and over and over again. On 3/27/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: How can the moves you mention here be accurately judged through sound rather than eyes? We would need good hand/ear coordination, and some of that might be hard to represent with the capabilities of the soundcards and/or machines that some blind people can afford. As for Shades of Doom, one thing that throws me is when I hear something in front of me, I face it and move forward, only to bump into a wall. I know it's on the other side of the wall, but the idea seems weird at first. It's just something I have to keep in mind when playing, I suppose. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking ForSomething New to Play
Hi Shaun, Well, you know as well as I do that's not unusual. A lot of people start writing some project with a bang, make some progress, and then it drops off for weeks or months. Sometimes life gets in the way, and sometimes the developer in question simply loses interest in the project. In either case I am sure we will here from Gray Matter if and when they have something to report. On 3/27/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: Thats true tom most ais up to a point have been simple though we are starting to get more complex ones. I wish there was more from greymatter as this company was working on something. I say was because the last blog post was last year which doesn't mean squat however. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Jacob, I suppose that might work. Its certainly another possibility at any rate. On 3/27/13, Jacob Kruger ja...@blindza.co.za wrote: Thomas May be slightly specific, but something like the audio soundscapes of the vOICe would be my form of suggestion for balancing something like this - different pitches left and right mean they're not level/equal, but, when the scan sound turns into a flat tone, then both ends/points are at the same level..? Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Thomas. I'm sorry, both to you and Shaun, it just gets me sometimes the attitude on here, the ingratitude. I never suggested James intended to cut and run, however he did and I personally paid for games which were never received such as Max Shrapnel. My problem lies in the fact that it looked like Shaun was ripping in to you, telling you to abandon MOTA and start again and I guess his email and the way it was phrased got my goat up. I am just as keen as everyone else to see new games developed for the AG community, however they aren't or at least not as rapidly, certainly not as intensely being produced, so anyone flaming or otherwise discouraging fellow developers has to be resisted if not squashed before it gets started right? Everyone has their bugbears and that was just mine, it certainly wasn't my intention to piss anyone off. All the best, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 8:48 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play Hi all, I'm coming to this post a bit late, but please let's stop the flaming here. No matter how we all feel about the unfortunate situation with James North, what was it, six years ago its really passed time to put it behind us. I can understand your frustration with some list members such as Shaun but ripping him a new one on list isn't the way to handle it. :D Ibrahim, regarding the games James North had in production I said this before and I will say it again I am certain it wasn't his intent to take the money and run. After all, I have in my possession the source code for three different games he was working on, and know for a fact he was working on them. However, it is my belief the stress, the pressure, the demands of certain individuals in this community that resulted in him just throwing in the towel and walking away from it all. Leaving as he did was wrong, but its also understandable. End of story. On 3/25/13, Ibrahim Gucukoglu ibrahim_gucuko...@sent.com wrote: Hi Shaun. Jesus Christ, Shaun, your attitude absolutely sucks. James North was a brilliant innovator, his games are testaments to what can be achieved with diligence, commitment and passion. Sadly James lost that passion because of individuals like you, always pushing for more, always wining about inadequacies, always piling on the pressure for this and that to be released. James might have been a negligent developer in the end, he might have lost interest and heart in the blind community, but it was only because of the base ingratitude of so many people. In the end, I wouldn't have been surprised if he wasn't above ripping off people with promises of games he never intended to release, or perhaps he did, but put them on the back burner. Whatever, he had a life too, and so far in my soul opinion, games like Monkey Business, ESP Pinball Classic, Chain Reaction, Alien Outback and Dynaman just go to show the wide range of his talents as a developer. The blind gaming community lost a true innovator when he stopped developing and disappeared, I doubt he'd ever have anything to do with the blind strata of society ever again after what he experienced. Now you dare to take pot shots at Thomas Ward who out of his own pocket for the most part is developing MOTA, I wouldn't be surprised if shits like you don't end up pushing us back to an age when all we can play are text based RPG and MUD games, text adventure and the like because no one wants to develop for us. Rant over, if you want to participate in our community, do it constructively, otherwise it might be wise for you to unsubscribe. All the best, Ibrahim. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
well I did say I was out of touch, I am not a dev just a tester/ light hacker programming after all is not my strong point, light scripter maybe doodler but not programmer. Its good that vb games can be done for multiplatforms now. At 09:22 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote: Hi Shaun and all, A few comments about the message below. Yes, older versions of Visual Basic, such as Visual Basic 6, are not Mac and Linux compatible, but that does not mean a person can not write apps for Mac and Linux in Visual Basic. Newer versions of the Mono Framework supports Visual Basic 2010 and comes with a Visual Basic .NET command line compiler. So that means its possible to write both C# .NET and Visual Basic .NET apps for Mac OS and Linux. The problem with Mac OS and .NET apps is there is no way to just click on an executable and run it the way you can in Windows and Linux. For some reason I haven't figured out the only way to get a C# .NET or VB .NET appp to run on Mac OS is to open a terminal and launch it like mono program.exe which is obviously less friendly than clicking an icon or browsing for the exe file and clicking on it. If a person is willing to launch apps from the terminal then .NET will work on Mac. As far as Python goes the big problem is Python version. The pyc files are runtime version specific meaning if you compile it for Python 2.7.3 and your target machine only has Python 2.6.x the application obviously won't run. the solution for this problem is to compile platform specific versions with its own runtime interpreter in the executable which means the developer needs a Mac, Linux PC, and Windows PC to build target versions for all three platforms. As far as C or C++ goes that is really rough for cross-platform development. Yes, it can be done, but it is not as simple or as easy as you make it out to be. There are a lot of technical considerations I won't even get into here just because I'd need a novel rather than a message to get into them all. On 3/24/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: hmm I am not as up with the play as I should be. It depends on the types of games that would work. python works with macs pcs both windows and linux. I know there is the mono dotnet opensource framework and thats supposed to work with everything with the same features as the windows dotnet client has. Now I have used in the past pascal and there is probably a client for all platforms. Standard c or c in general should work, linux is basically c anyway, so no big issue loads of compilers for all platforms. So a lot of stuff probably works visual basic probably won't work outside windows. Most stuff should work with windows from 98 up to server 2012, mac is slightly more tricky as is linux but I think a lot of stuff can be sourced for each os. We do have an issue with anything over that. I know we do have windows rt should we use it though no access supports = no use I'd imagine for now anyway. Mac I am not sure but there should be no issue as is linux. The iphone with restrictions may work though a lot seem to be jail breaking their units. Android is probably the option for least resistance. Its google and opensource probably has its apis somewhere online. the ios stuff if you make it by the rules needs licences by apple. and if you hack it well I don't know, I have been wanting an ios device for all the games with the reviews, but after all the hastle with all the restrictions I am not sure if I should just get one of the nexus devices. If there are sighted devs there is always xna I am not sure what we would need to run on xbox but assumedly its supposed to run on xbox 360s potentually. The rest soni etc nes whatever I am not sure about access but we already have a large extent of reach and choice on platform. ok not steam but we probably don't need that. there is also blackburry but hardly anyone uses that anyway. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
there a re a few more passages in the game you don't need to complete the game. Right however the game almost never uses them, maybe items will be put obscurely, or items and monsters will be dropped in passages but items are not dropped in passages randomely as a rule even main ones. items can be behind locked doors even if you can't get to the doors, ie a security key may be behind a door that was locked. or a wafter may be on a monster that does not exist in the game or a message may be on a monster that you can't find. I still play the game on normal level because its good for a good keyboard bash. Out of most of the old games I have lonewolf is the only other and thats with the borgified mod on it only. At 10:26 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote: Hi Tom. As you know I'm an exploration fiend, so the maze aspect of shades of doom is very much something else I like about the game, aprticularly given that David did a great job with ambient sound sources in the maze which give it an interesting background to explore too even though the game didn't involve much music. combine this with the item randomization and you've got a great game with lots of replay. The two things I'd have liked to see in shades most are 1, more enemies, since the 7 or so types the game has do seem a little samy after a while especially mid game, and 2, more areas which it was not! necessary to complete to finish the game, but which added to the over all levels. To explain, as it stand you need to pretty much go everywhere on each level to make sure you get all the data wafers and those messages. it'd be great to see a game that has false trails as well as genuine routes through the levels, so that people can choose to explore fully or to just head for the exit. This would be particularly of advantage in a game with stat boosts or other extras to collect, since then there is always the possibility that exploring leads to more items. this is something many of my favourite exploration games do, indeed in many of the more recent and large size fan created Turrican levels, there are so many false trails that finding the correct route is near impossible, aprticularly considdering Turrican levels can have their exit anywhere, and some of the fan created ones are truly gigantic! While I know some people find exploration in audio based games a trial, I'd say that thanks to shades and swamp, not to mention previous mota betas ad games like Airic, we're familiar enough now over using things like coordinates, difference in environment (be these sound sources, room names or whatever), to be albe to have maps at least as complex as those in a game like Original prince of persia. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Tom. Well this is again why I'd like to see side scrollers introduced to audio gamers, since the amount of fun I've had with turrican, metroid, mega man and such games over the years is just staggering, and it's a shame that there are so many people who believe a 1D game like q9 is the be all and end all. That being said, something full 3D would be good too, provided the nav system was there. Personally, what I found irritating in monkey business wasn't so much that the navigation system was lacking, but that it was simply imprecise. You'd hear something in front of you, walk forward and then walk straight past it, or be told something was to your right, turn right and then miss it. Shades, and the gma engine generally, not to mention technoshock which was heavily based on it, uses a very precise system in it's audio to identify where objects are, so that if you turn so that something is centered in the sterrio field, you are! facing it, which to me is as much a contributing factor to shades success as it's various tools. i might also add though that on this front, swamp is pretty awsome too, letting you explore very large maps with things appearing at random and even collection missions too. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Shaun, Ah, I see. Well, as far as burning out goes that was true a few months ago, but not now. A few things have changed since then, and I've gotten my priorities straight so to speak. Back in 2008 through 2011 I was spending every available minute I had on developing the engine, developing MOTA, researching this or that, and not spending much time with my family or giving myself room to breath. Then, in 2012 I became quite sick. I caught the flu a couple of times, came down with a nasty cold, and to top things off I fell down a few months ago while getting out of the bathtub and injured my neck. All of these things lead to me taking time off from game development, and in the process I realized I was killing myself working too hard. At this point I am still working on developing games, but I don't push myself. If I feel tired I take a nap instead. If I need to watch my son for a few hours that will get top priority. If I feel like working on some game or project that has nothing to do with the games on preorder I do it. Basically, I just don't push myself too hard, and I've realized what is most important is my own happiness and satisfaction above all else. So the games will get done when they are done and in what time I have to set aside for them, but I won't push myself to the burnout point any more. Cheers! On 3/26/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: no problem tom I was just worried you were burning yourself out over the games and I don't want you to, I have no issue on honor my issue was that you were developing because you had to and not enjoying it and well I was worried you were going to burn out, I have seen several small time devs just burn or go away with no trace and I don't want you to be one of these people. You were the first that even thought or at least one of them that thought about trying to modernise our games which up to when you started were using old tech. I know a lot has improved since you started sertainly we have more at our disposal than ever before. I was just concerned thats all. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Dark, Sure. I do understand your point of view as it is rather distressing to know how many V.I. gamers assume that something like Q9 is the be all and end all to side-scrollers when guys like you and I know better. Fact of the matter is that for better than a decade side-scrollers were the primary style of games for Nintendo, Sega, and PC and it gave rise to such popular series as Megaman, Super Mario, Donkey Kong, Castlevania, and so on. Since I figure the majority of blind PC users were unable to fully enjoy the original side-scrollers they are lacking some huge conceptual differences between a simple side-scroller like Q9 and say Mario Brothers. There are a whole bunch of conceptual differences that just haven't been fully realized by the blind gaming community. For far too long a lot of games have you push the up arrow key and the left or right arrow key x time to jump a pit etc. This is not only very unrealistic, but lacks the skill and grace of games with a traditional analog jump system in place. Games where how high and far you jumped were based on a number of factors like if you were running before you jumped, weather or not you were jumping off a ledge,and how long you held down the jump button while using the directional cross to control the characters movement. Even when you landed you would occasionally bounce or slide which made it difficult for a precision pinpoint landing. Such things haven't been the norm in audio games, and I suspect it is because a true analog jump system requires good hand and eye coordination so yes we could use a few good side-scrollers of that type to at least introduce the V.I. community to what they are missing. At the same time I am personally equally conscious of the fact we haven't had many FPS games that lives up to mainstream standards. Yes, Shades of Doom is good, and yes Swamp introduces us to the online FPS type affair, but I've seen a lot of features that have never been introduced in any audio game for one reason or another. Let's take a Third Person Shooter like the infamous tomb Raider for example. In that series you can get Lara Croft to perform a wide range of acrobatic maneuvers above and beyond just jumps. She can do summersaults, flips, rolls, and swan dive off a ledge into a lake. She can safety drop from ledges, swing from ropes and vines, army crawl under swirling blades, as well as run up to a ledge etc and vault over it. In Tomb Raider Legend and Anniversary Lara carries a grappling hook which she uses to swing over traps and to climb up to areas of the tomb inaccessible through any other means. Point being that there are a lot of aspects to a full on 3d game that no 2d side-scroller can quite compare to. Regarding nav systems I have to agree here. Monkey Business was imprecise, and I'm not quite sure why that was. However, I do know of the issue you speak of where you would here the beep, beep, beep of the object locator only to walk past the item, or walk around it several times before picking up the coin, sword, or whatever it was you were trying to pik up. Oh, that use to bug the heck out of me. Cheers! On 3/26/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Well this is again why I'd like to see side scrollers introduced to audio gamers, since the amount of fun I've had with turrican, metroid, mega man and such games over the years is just staggering, and it's a shame that there are so many people who believe a 1D game like q9 is the be all and end all. That being said, something full 3D would be good too, provided the nav system was there. Personally, what I found irritating in monkey business wasn't so much that the navigation system was lacking, but that it was simply imprecise. You'd hear something in front of you, walk forward and then walk straight past it, or be told something was to your right, turn right and then miss it. Shades, and the gma engine generally, not to mention technoshock which was heavily based on it, uses a very precise system in it's audio to identify where objects are, so that if you turn so that something is centered in the sterrio field, you are! facing it, which to me is as much a contributing factor to shades success as it's various tools. i might also add though that on this front, swamp is pretty awsome too, letting you explore very large maps with things appearing at random and even collection missions too. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Shaun, Oh, I realize that. However, may this serve as a reminder open mouth insert foot when you pass around incorrect information or talk about things you don't really know anything about. You can do more harm than good spreading baseless information around. On 3/26/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well I did say I was out of touch, I am not a dev just a tester/ light hacker programming after all is not my strong point, light scripter maybe doodler but not programmer. Its good that vb games can be done for multiplatforms now. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Replayability and USA Games
Hi Everyone. Sorry for reposting this thread but I’ve been having problems with my email. Anyway, meant to reply to Shaun’s message, here is my message and the rest of the thread to keep it in context. Hi Shaun. Jesus Christ, Shaun, your attitude absolutely sucks. James North was a brilliant innovator, his games are testaments to what can be achieved with diligence, commitment and passion. Sadly James lost that passion because of individuals like you, always pushing for more, always wining about inadequacies, always piling on the pressure for this and that to be released. James might have been a negligent developer in the end, he might have lost interest and heart in the blind community, but it was only because of the base ingratitude of so many people. In the end, I wouldn't have been surprised if he wasn't above ripping off people with promises of games he never intended to release, or perhaps he did, but put them on the back burner. Whatever, he had a life too, and so far in my soul opinion, games like Monkey Business, ESP Pinball Classic, Chain Reaction, Alien Outback and Dynaman just go to show the wide range of his talents as a developer. The blind gaming community lost a true innovator when he stopped developing and disappeared, I doubt he'd ever have anything to do with the blind strata of society ever again after what he experienced. Now you dare to take pot shots at Thomas Ward who out of his own pocket for the most part is developing MOTA, I wouldn't be surprised if shits like you don't end up pushing us back to an age when all we can play are text based RPG and MUD games, text adventure and the like because no one wants to develop for us. Rant over, if you want to participate in our community, do it constructively, otherwise it might be wise for you to unsubscribe. All the best, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: shaun everiss Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 4:01 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play to be honest it may be easier at this point if you just gave an old crappy directx8 version with all the sound as it was 3 years back to people that payed for it maybe the one you had to stop because of copywrite or its levels and change the title and drop it. I know thats probably not what you want to hear and for ages I supported you but I have moved on from that game and you probably should to. Lets face it, the espsoftworks/ james north experience has been a major changer in the history of this community and a big lesson and will always be the point or one of the points where we started trying to make things properly. I don't know about the rest but the monti/ mota game has been going far to long. And to be honest can anyone actually remember what it was about. Yes the racing game and the others james promised were a shame to loose but several years are between now and then. Yes they were good ideas still are but to be honest all that stuff has been hanging to long. I vote you just drop all james games you promised its to long in any case, and its really pushed other things away. I myself am still waiting for the second installment of stfc or whatever you finally call it. Ofcause I also await anything new that is going on. However the only thing I can remember are the people on the form complaining about each beta and everything. And while times were tough back then I feel to much time has been lost, to selvage anything. 3 story changes and a load of other stuff and then things went away. At some point to be coming back but I never was fully interested in that sort of game anyway though the racing game maybe. And to be honest we do need more sims. Even so you need to ask yourself why you are even doing these at all. These are your games, no one elses. It is all history now no matter how much cash was wasted its probably not worth it to just satisfy any other whiners on here. If others think me as been a rood nut tell me and I'll shutup however I think, enough is enough. James games should be put in a bin and left to rot. They were created before a lot of the newer tech came out and while I was really for it all 10 years back that was 10 years. And at any rate the industry seems to be basically at a standstill. A lot of stuff needs to happen before things start moving again. swamp is just about the only thing that keeps the industry active at least on the user end. Now that eventually will end, if that is all that is, it may come to pass that the audiogame market is for all perposes dead or at least stopped for now. I don't really want old games that well came out of one of the big wars that happened so long ago that I forgot what everything was about. Ofcause tom if you want to continue it should be your reason and your's alone that decides it. I think all obligations should be turfed, 10 years ago I would have preasured you day and night to do something
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Shaun. Jesus Christ, Shaun, your attitude absolutely sucks. James North was a brilliant innovator, his games are testaments to what can be achieved with diligence, commitment and passion. Sadly James lost that passion because of individuals like you, always pushing for more, always wining about inadequacies, always piling on the pressure for this and that to be released. James might have been a negligent developer in the end, he might have lost interest and heart in the blind community, but it was only because of the base ingratitude of so many people. In the end, I wouldn't have been surprised if he wasn't above ripping off people with promises of games he never intended to release, or perhaps he did, but put them on the back burner. Whatever, he had a life too, and so far in my soul opinion, games like Monkey Business, ESP Pinball Classic, Chain Reaction, Alien Outback and Dynaman just go to show the wide range of his talents as a developer. The blind gaming community lost a true innovator when he stopped developing and disappeared, I doubt he'd ever have anything to do with the blind strata of society ever again after what he experienced. Now you dare to take pot shots at Thomas Ward who out of his own pocket for the most part is developing MOTA, I wouldn't be surprised if shits like you don't end up pushing us back to an age when all we can play are text based RPG and MUD games, text adventure and the like because no one wants to develop for us. Rant over, if you want to participate in our community, do it constructively, otherwise it might be wise for you to unsubscribe. All the best, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: shaun everiss Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 4:01 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play to be honest it may be easier at this point if you just gave an old crappy directx8 version with all the sound as it was 3 years back to people that payed for it maybe the one you had to stop because of copywrite or its levels and change the title and drop it. I know thats probably not what you want to hear and for ages I supported you but I have moved on from that game and you probably should to. Lets face it, the espsoftworks/ james north experience has been a major changer in the history of this community and a big lesson and will always be the point or one of the points where we started trying to make things properly. I don't know about the rest but the monti/ mota game has been going far to long. And to be honest can anyone actually remember what it was about. Yes the racing game and the others james promised were a shame to loose but several years are between now and then. Yes they were good ideas still are but to be honest all that stuff has been hanging to long. I vote you just drop all james games you promised its to long in any case, and its really pushed other things away. I myself am still waiting for the second installment of stfc or whatever you finally call it. Ofcause I also await anything new that is going on. However the only thing I can remember are the people on the form complaining about each beta and everything. And while times were tough back then I feel to much time has been lost, to selvage anything. 3 story changes and a load of other stuff and then things went away. At some point to be coming back but I never was fully interested in that sort of game anyway though the racing game maybe. And to be honest we do need more sims. Even so you need to ask yourself why you are even doing these at all. These are your games, no one elses. It is all history now no matter how much cash was wasted its probably not worth it to just satisfy any other whiners on here. If others think me as been a rood nut tell me and I'll shutup however I think, enough is enough. James games should be put in a bin and left to rot. They were created before a lot of the newer tech came out and while I was really for it all 10 years back that was 10 years. And at any rate the industry seems to be basically at a standstill. A lot of stuff needs to happen before things start moving again. swamp is just about the only thing that keeps the industry active at least on the user end. Now that eventually will end, if that is all that is, it may come to pass that the audiogame market is for all perposes dead or at least stopped for now. I don't really want old games that well came out of one of the big wars that happened so long ago that I forgot what everything was about. Ofcause tom if you want to continue it should be your reason and your's alone that decides it. I think all obligations should be turfed, 10 years ago I would have preasured you day and night to do something but well. At 01:57 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark, You aren't the only one who is frustrated. None more so than me since the last few months I've fallen into a kind of funk. One where time has
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Shaun, No offense, but you are way off base here. There is no way in Hades I'm going to just delete, scrap, or trash all the work I've done on Mysteries of the Ancients over the last four years. That would be flipping insane not to mention a waste of my time and everyone else who has helped out with the project. As far as Montezuma's Revenge goes believe it or not I do have something in mind similar to that game which I intend to release sooner or later. I don't want to give a lot of details because I haven't gotten it all worked out, designed, and written yet and I don't want to answer a bunch of questions about something still on the drawing board. However, the point is I took money for a game like that and I do intend to give those customers something of equal value for their money. Its not a question of what I want to do or don't want to do, but a matter of honor. Besides that enough time has passed that I'm actually ready to work on an arcade game like Monte, and would like to see it brought to completion. Regardless of the circumstances that landed me in this situation I do feel I have a obligation to fulfill and I intend to do it. Now, as to your rant about the games being old or whatever that's just bologna. You should know by now I have always attempted to use the latest and cutting edge technology and ideas in my games. When I took over Montezuma's Revenge the first thing I did is convert the Visual Basic 6 code to C# .NET and DirectX 9.0C in order to get away from the older outdated technologies James North was using. Later after the copyright issues came up over that game I decided to write a modern game engine in C++ with DirectX support that has just about everything BGT does on the Windows side, and MOTA was developed using that same engine. Point being whatever else happens it is not going to be some old game using out of date concepts or technology. For example, so far as I know MOTA beta 22 is the only game that uses an analog and physics based jump system comparable to a mainstream game. I had to simplify it some since it is difficult to get it to work exactly like a video game without the visual aspect, but even if I turned around and wrote Montezuma's Revenge today with my game engine it would use cutting edge technology not be some ten year old has been that you seem to suggest. On 3/25/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: to be honest it may be easier at this point if you just gave an old crappy directx8 version with all the sound as it was 3 years back to people that payed for it maybe the one you had to stop because of copywrite or its levels and change the title and drop it. I know thats probably not what you want to hear and for ages I supported you but I have moved on from that game and you probably should to. Lets face it, the espsoftworks/ james north experience has been a major changer in the history of this community and a big lesson and will always be the point or one of the points where we started trying to make things properly. I don't know about the rest but the monti/ mota game has been going far to long. And to be honest can anyone actually remember what it was about. Yes the racing game and the others james promised were a shame to loose but several years are between now and then. Yes they were good ideas still are but to be honest all that stuff has been hanging to long. I vote you just drop all james games you promised its to long in any case, and its really pushed other things away. I myself am still waiting for the second installment of stfc or whatever you finally call it. Ofcause I also await anything new that is going on. However the only thing I can remember are the people on the form complaining about each beta and everything. And while times were tough back then I feel to much time has been lost, to selvage anything. 3 story changes and a load of other stuff and then things went away. At some point to be coming back but I never was fully interested in that sort of game anyway though the racing game maybe. And to be honest we do need more sims. Even so you need to ask yourself why you are even doing these at all. These are your games, no one elses. It is all history now no matter how much cash was wasted its probably not worth it to just satisfy any other whiners on here. If others think me as been a rood nut tell me and I'll shutup however I think, enough is enough. James games should be put in a bin and left to rot. They were created before a lot of the newer tech came out and while I was really for it all 10 years back that was 10 years. And at any rate the industry seems to be basically at a standstill. A lot of stuff needs to happen before things start moving again. swamp is just about the only thing that keeps the industry active at least on the user end. Now that eventually will end, if that is all that is, it may come to pass that the audiogame market is for all perposes
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Shaun and all, A few comments about the message below. Yes, older versions of Visual Basic, such as Visual Basic 6, are not Mac and Linux compatible, but that does not mean a person can not write apps for Mac and Linux in Visual Basic. Newer versions of the Mono Framework supports Visual Basic 2010 and comes with a Visual Basic .NET command line compiler. So that means its possible to write both C# .NET and Visual Basic .NET apps for Mac OS and Linux. The problem with Mac OS and .NET apps is there is no way to just click on an executable and run it the way you can in Windows and Linux. For some reason I haven't figured out the only way to get a C# .NET or VB .NET appp to run on Mac OS is to open a terminal and launch it like mono program.exe which is obviously less friendly than clicking an icon or browsing for the exe file and clicking on it. If a person is willing to launch apps from the terminal then .NET will work on Mac. As far as Python goes the big problem is Python version. The pyc files are runtime version specific meaning if you compile it for Python 2.7.3 and your target machine only has Python 2.6.x the application obviously won't run. the solution for this problem is to compile platform specific versions with its own runtime interpreter in the executable which means the developer needs a Mac, Linux PC, and Windows PC to build target versions for all three platforms. As far as C or C++ goes that is really rough for cross-platform development. Yes, it can be done, but it is not as simple or as easy as you make it out to be. There are a lot of technical considerations I won't even get into here just because I'd need a novel rather than a message to get into them all. On 3/24/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: hmm I am not as up with the play as I should be. It depends on the types of games that would work. python works with macs pcs both windows and linux. I know there is the mono dotnet opensource framework and thats supposed to work with everything with the same features as the windows dotnet client has. Now I have used in the past pascal and there is probably a client for all platforms. Standard c or c in general should work, linux is basically c anyway, so no big issue loads of compilers for all platforms. So a lot of stuff probably works visual basic probably won't work outside windows. Most stuff should work with windows from 98 up to server 2012, mac is slightly more tricky as is linux but I think a lot of stuff can be sourced for each os. We do have an issue with anything over that. I know we do have windows rt should we use it though no access supports = no use I'd imagine for now anyway. Mac I am not sure but there should be no issue as is linux. The iphone with restrictions may work though a lot seem to be jail breaking their units. Android is probably the option for least resistance. Its google and opensource probably has its apis somewhere online. the ios stuff if you make it by the rules needs licences by apple. and if you hack it well I don't know, I have been wanting an ios device for all the games with the reviews, but after all the hastle with all the restrictions I am not sure if I should just get one of the nexus devices. If there are sighted devs there is always xna I am not sure what we would need to run on xbox but assumedly its supposed to run on xbox 360s potentually. The rest soni etc nes whatever I am not sure about access but we already have a large extent of reach and choice on platform. ok not steam but we probably don't need that. there is also blackburry but hardly anyone uses that anyway. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Dark, Agreed. At this point releasing something complete would be a step in the right direction. You'll get no argument from me on that. One of the things I think that makes Shades of Doom such a good game is that its fully accessible, but it is also difficult too. On the higher difficulty levels you really have to be good to get through all nine areas. With area 9 being the worst since you can't save and take a breather. Shades of Dooms levels are structured as mazes which adds some complexity to the game besides the usual creatures like mutant dogs, mutant rats, mutant humans, blobs, and so forth. I know this aspect throws some gamers off, but for someone who is into exploration it took me a couple of months to really get the hang of all nine areas. That added a great deal of replay value for me, because I couldn't finish it all in one sitting. Even now that I've beaten the game many times I still can't sit down and complete it all at one go. I have to break it up over a couple of sessions which adds some replay value right there. Its just so big that you need lots of time to play Shades from start to finish. I think when I do finish MOTA, or whatever we want to call it, I want it to have those two aspects. I want it to have enough levels or areas that it can't be completed in one session, and I want it to have enough difficulty that it is worth finishing the game after a number of retries. I think it is those aspects that make for a good game. On 3/24/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I'm sorry to hear about the various problems and bugs, and in fairness no coding or writing when ill is not possible, but at the same time part of the point of my message was to offer some encouragement, albeit some encouragement with a little tinge of frustration. At this point I don't really care which! game gets practically finished, but it'd be just great to see something done and dusted and out the door. I know a lot of behind the scenes work has been done on the genesis engine etc, and that you yourself are concerned about commitements to players, but at this point we're probably at a stage where any! released game would be a good hthing. As regards atmosphere, well I agree that is another reason shades of doom is such a classic and grabbed my attention as the first audio game I played. not only did it give me access to the fps genre for the first time (a genre which I've never found visually playable), but it did it in a fantastic way that had complete creepiness, with great enemies and an engine, heck, even the first shades of doom sound when you start the game is pretty scary :D. It's just that really awsoe design quality that makes you want to replay a game. It's even hard to defign since it is something some games just have and others do not. Terraformers for example I never found half as addictve as shades of doom, despite the very superior sfx music and environment, and while I have! replayed it, I've only ever done so once. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Tom. As you know I'm an exploration fiend, so the maze aspect of shades of doom is very much something else I like about the game, aprticularly given that David did a great job with ambient sound sources in the maze which give it an interesting background to explore too even though the game didn't involve much music. combine this with the item randomization and you've got a great game with lots of replay. The two things I'd have liked to see in shades most are 1, more enemies, since the 7 or so types the game has do seem a little samy after a while especially mid game, and 2, more areas which it was not! necessary to complete to finish the game, but which added to the over all levels. To explain, as it stand you need to pretty much go everywhere on each level to make sure you get all the data wafers and those messages. it'd be great to see a game that has false trails as well as genuine routes through the levels, so that people can choose to explore fully or to just head for the exit. This would be particularly of advantage in a game with stat boosts or other extras to collect, since then there is always the possibility that exploring leads to more items. this is something many of my favourite exploration games do, indeed in many of the more recent and large size fan created Turrican levels, there are so many false trails that finding the correct route is near impossible, aprticularly considdering Turrican levels can have their exit anywhere, and some of the fan created ones are truly gigantic! While I know some people find exploration in audio based games a trial, I'd say that thanks to shades and swamp, not to mention previous mota betas ad games like Airic, we're familiar enough now over using things like coordinates, difference in environment (be these sound sources, room names or whatever), to be albe to have maps at least as complex as those in a game like Original prince of persia. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Dark, Yes, definitely. I think Shades of Doom could use for a few more areas to explore, bonus levels so to speak, as well as a couple of bonus enemies now and then. Still one thing I think Shades of Doom does well is while it has some sort of complex mazes it also offers a navigation system above and beyond the average audio game. For example, I believe the first attempt at an audio FPS was Monkey Business. While playable I find its navigation system a far cruder and less accessible navigation system than that of Shades of Doom. Teraformers is another FPS that was decent, but its navigation system doesn't live up to Shades of Doom quality either. Its for this reason that I have attempted to borrow ideas from GMA when and where possible. As you may or may not know a couple of years ago I actually built a prototype of MOTA using a full 3d FPS environment. Turns out the Shades of Doom navigation system works just as well in a 3d FPS environment as a 2d one accept I needed to add some additional directional comments to the navigational scan such as ledge above and to the left in 15 feet, or ledge below and to the right in 10 feet. It required a little more scanning but once you got familiar with the layout it wasn't too bad. The one thing it did do for me is it was far better than Shades of Doom because the levels were larger, had more complexity to them, more rooms to explore, and that is why it saddens me that people want a side-scroller. Side-scrollers are OK, but you'll never get the same degree of exploration out of one of those as a full 3d FPS can provide just because you are limited to a 2d environment. Still I agree that we are really ready for more complex levels. Even in terms of 2d side-scrollers we haven't even began to touch the full potential of such games. Perilous Hearts is probably the first audio game that allows you to climb trees, swing from vines, and fight enemies on the ground and in the air. That is a good thing, but its easy to forget that games like Legend of Kage, which was released in the mid 1980's for the NES, had this ability 25 years ago. Seems to me Pitfall II also involved a jungle level where Harry had to climb vines, swing from tree to tree, and so forth and that was released at least 20 years ago as well. Point being that games like Perilous Hearts is just now bringing audio games up to the level of mainstream games from a couple of decades ago. Its now time to begin incorporating those ideas and showing V.I. gamers what really can be done in audio. On 3/25/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. As you know I'm an exploration fiend, so the maze aspect of shades of doom is very much something else I like about the game, aprticularly given that David did a great job with ambient sound sources in the maze which give it an interesting background to explore too even though the game didn't involve much music. combine this with the item randomization and you've got a great game with lots of replay. The two things I'd have liked to see in shades most are 1, more enemies, since the 7 or so types the game has do seem a little samy after a while especially mid game, and 2, more areas which it was not! necessary to complete to finish the game, but which added to the over all levels. To explain, as it stand you need to pretty much go everywhere on each level to make sure you get all the data wafers and those messages. it'd be great to see a game that has false trails as well as genuine routes through the levels, so that people can choose to explore fully or to just head for the exit. This would be particularly of advantage in a game with stat boosts or other extras to collect, since then there is always the possibility that exploring leads to more items. this is something many of my favourite exploration games do, indeed in many of the more recent and large size fan created Turrican levels, there are so many false trails that finding the correct route is near impossible, aprticularly considdering Turrican levels can have their exit anywhere, and some of the fan created ones are truly gigantic! While I know some people find exploration in audio based games a trial, I'd say that thanks to shades and swamp, not to mention previous mota betas ad games like Airic, we're familiar enough now over using things like coordinates, difference in environment (be these sound sources, room names or whatever), to be albe to have maps at least as complex as those in a game like Original prince of persia. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi michael. I wasn't intending my comments about Tom's games to be insulting, nor would I want Tom to rush out a game on a whim that might be substandard, it's just that when talking of game design quality that gives a game that something that makes you want to replay it even after! you have played it before despite lack of secrets etc, is a quality Tom's games have very much had, (perhaps not final conflict but certainly his other games). It's like with books. Some books I read and think that's great! but they have very little reread value just because the prose aren't that interesting or the plot, while surprising the first time is really not the second time. Great books however have reread value, which is Why every few years I reread the hobbit, lotr, The silmarillion, William Horwood's first three duncton novels, since in their style, their creation of a world and their unique design they really stand out and can provide as much surprise and eloquence the second time around or even the 10th time around as the first. Beware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Dark, Thanks for saying that. If I can make my games enjoyable,, replayable, then I think I've succeeded as a game designer. It is the sort of games that a person plays once, completes it in a few hours, and finds they have no desire to replay the game I would consider a failure. There are, of course, a few audio games like that, but I'm glad to know my games aren't one of them. On 3/24/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi michael. I wasn't intending my comments about Tom's games to be insulting, nor would I want Tom to rush out a game on a whim that might be substandard, it's just that when talking of game design quality that gives a game that something that makes you want to replay it even after! you have played it before despite lack of secrets etc, is a quality Tom's games have very much had, (perhaps not final conflict but certainly his other games). It's like with books. Some books I read and think that's great! but they have very little reread value just because the prose aren't that interesting or the plot, while surprising the first time is really not the second time. Great books however have reread value, which is Why every few years I reread the hobbit, lotr, The silmarillion, William Horwood's first three duncton novels, since in their style, their creation of a world and their unique design they really stand out and can provide as much surprise and eloquence the second time around or even the 10th time around as the first. Beware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Yes, from what I've seen, they aren't. Now if only we had a game engine for everyone that was inclusive of other operating systems? Would one have to own a mac to even code/compile for it? Wait, Java works on everything right? But then, most audio games use TTS that other systems don't have, so java wouldn't work well with audio games on my mac. I gave my pc to my sister, so I'll have to find a VM. Anyways, perhaps BGT could do it, but I doubt Philip would want to expand into mac stuff, since everyone seems to think that windows is all there is. I know Draconis has made an engine that is inclusive, but that is only available for them. Devin Prater r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com On Mar 24, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Thanks for saying that. If I can make my games enjoyable,, replayable, then I think I've succeeded as a game designer. It is the sort of games that a person plays once, completes it in a few hours, and finds they have no desire to replay the game I would consider a failure. There are, of course, a few audio games like that, but I'm glad to know my games aren't one of them. On 3/24/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi michael. I wasn't intending my comments about Tom's games to be insulting, nor would I want Tom to rush out a game on a whim that might be substandard, it's just that when talking of game design quality that gives a game that something that makes you want to replay it even after! you have played it before despite lack of secrets etc, is a quality Tom's games have very much had, (perhaps not final conflict but certainly his other games). It's like with books. Some books I read and think that's great! but they have very little reread value just because the prose aren't that interesting or the plot, while surprising the first time is really not the second time. Great books however have reread value, which is Why every few years I reread the hobbit, lotr, The silmarillion, William Horwood's first three duncton novels, since in their style, their creation of a world and their unique design they really stand out and can provide as much surprise and eloquence the second time around or even the 10th time around as the first. Beware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Dark, You aren't the only one who is frustrated. None more so than me since the last few months I've fallen into a kind of funk. One where time has no meaning as such. What I mean by that I might work heavily on the game on February 12, and then discover the next time I work on the game it is March 23. It doesn't seem to me like it has been that long, but it is so easy to loose track of time that days and weeks go by between updates. So much time that the game has been dragging out from months to years. Of course, the principle problem is lack of motivation. I'm no longer driven to work every available minute of every day on it so I get to it when I get to it. What makes matters worse I have not been at my best health wise anyway . Just this week my son caught a nasty cold and now has given it to me. When I have a sore throat, headache, and am coughing I'm not exactly in a mood to sit down and program for hours on end. Add in some cold medicine that makes me tired and the best thing I can do is sleep rather than work. It seems this year I have caught every cold and flu bug coming and going and I've just not felt much like working on games. I'm hoping that somehow I will be able to get back up to my usual productivity, finish these games, get them out, and won't have them hanging over my head. I'm just as eager to see them completed as most people on the list. :D All that aside I know what you mean by wishing to revisit the atmosphere of the game. Shades of Doom doesn't have a very complex storyline as games goes, but it does not need one. The lab is challenging enough with all the various monsters that keeps me coming back over and over again. On the higher difficulty levels there is no certainty that I will even complete a game without being killed off which means I am able to pit myself against the game and sometimes I win sometimes I lose. It is this degree of replay value I hope to incorporate into my own games. On 3/22/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Michael. On the replayability angle, I often find that games are replayable from the perspective of reexperiencing the atmosphere or story, or just trying to best the tough challenges another time. It is this that has made me replay shades of doom and Sarah. By the same tocan, i've replayed games like super Metroid and Mega man x 1 more times than I can count, just because the gameplay, design and structure, not to mention atmosphere and music are so perfectly designed. There are several audio games that I view in this same catagory, particularly Gma's offerings. So though I do completely agree random elements are great in games for keeping you on your toes, which is why games like smugglers and kerkerkruip are so awsome, they're not a necessity if design etc works out well. heck, this even goes for arcade games and is the reason i've replayed Q9 and the pinball games despite them being symple arcade titles. whether mota will fall into this catagory I am waiting to see, though i've been impressed enough with what we've seen thus far to think that tom's ability to not just code games but design them is up to the task, which is another reason I would so much appreciate seeing him produce an honest to goodness finished project, bet that the wrestling game, Arc of hope, an acessible castlevania type side scroller, a mission based startrek game or a vampire text rpg, heck I'd even! like to see raceway despite racing games not being a favourite genre of mine. Concepts are great, and what we've sene of Tom's design has been great, I just sometimes feel a little frustrated that with all these ideas we haven't yet seen anything that has gone past a couple of playable levels. I am quite aware that this isn't always Tom's fault, and have followed all the community debates and opinions (some not so flattering) that have been voiced. I am also aware of other commitments, but at the same time I do feel a little like usa games is the tantalus of the accessible games markit and just as we all reach for that big bunch of juicy grapes they get yanked away again for one reason or another. This isn't intended as an insult, just a statement of feelings and a continuation about the debate over game design, since I do genuinely believe Tom has the ability to design a real block buster, which is also why I would so much like to see a complete, or at least completely released game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Devin, Cross-compiling and developing for other operating systems is a highly complex subject. There are a lot of difficulties in choosing the right language, right APIs, and even then there are differences between the operating systems that makes it impossible to come up with a so-called one size fits all solution. For example, I have a game engine written in C++ that does run on Windows, Linux, and Mac. However, the problem is that I have to have a machine here running all of those operating systems to cross-compile the games, and I'm not exactly happy with all the APIs available for the engine. Right now my cross-platform version of the engine is using SDL 1.2.13 for handling a basic window manager, handling game input, and for audio. Its okay, but Microsoft's DirectX technology is a superior game API and it isn't available for non-Windows platforms. That puts me in between a rock and a hard place in terms of writing games. If I use the cross-platform version of the engine Windows users will be without advanced features such as force feedback for joysticks or without the ability to have advanced audio because SDL just doesn't offer it. Therefore the quality of my games would suffer not because of anything I did, but because I chose to use a inferior API for the engine in order to maintain cross-platform capabilities. If I use the Windows version of the engine based on DirectX I have access to all the advanced features, but can't just take it over to a Mac or Linux PC and cross-compile it without a major rewrite. What I've discovered in researching the problem I can get some decent solutions for two platforms but not for three platforms. Maybe there is one that works fine for Windows and Mac, Windows and Linux, but none that works for Windows, Mac, and Linux that are of the quality and standards I'm looking for and are affordable. Yes, I know Draconis has there engine for Mac and Windows, but it took a lot of time and work to do so. As I understand it they basically had to write their own game development APIs from scratch rather than use SDL or something like that. Even so at this point it only supports Windows, Mac OS, and iOS but not Linux. So its not exactly all inclusive either. So anyone even thinking cross-platform development has a rough road to travel. Cheers! On 3/24/13, Devin Prater r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, from what I've seen, they aren't. Now if only we had a game engine for everyone that was inclusive of other operating systems? Would one have to own a mac to even code/compile for it? Wait, Java works on everything right? But then, most audio games use TTS that other systems don't have, so java wouldn't work well with audio games on my mac. I gave my pc to my sister, so I'll have to find a VM. Anyways, perhaps BGT could do it, but I doubt Philip would want to expand into mac stuff, since everyone seems to think that windows is all there is. I know Draconis has made an engine that is inclusive, but that is only available for them. Devin Prater r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Wow. Well, Windows, mac and maybe iOS is a fine triplet to go for, but now I see how hard it is. Maybe I'll get a windows VM, or if bootcamp is accessible I'll get a windows cd to make a partition for that. Maybe give it 100GB, to fit the games I like. Devin Prater r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com On Mar 24, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Devin, Cross-compiling and developing for other operating systems is a highly complex subject. There are a lot of difficulties in choosing the right language, right APIs, and even then there are differences between the operating systems that makes it impossible to come up with a so-called one size fits all solution. For example, I have a game engine written in C++ that does run on Windows, Linux, and Mac. However, the problem is that I have to have a machine here running all of those operating systems to cross-compile the games, and I'm not exactly happy with all the APIs available for the engine. Right now my cross-platform version of the engine is using SDL 1.2.13 for handling a basic window manager, handling game input, and for audio. Its okay, but Microsoft's DirectX technology is a superior game API and it isn't available for non-Windows platforms. That puts me in between a rock and a hard place in terms of writing games. If I use the cross-platform version of the engine Windows users will be without advanced features such as force feedback for joysticks or without the ability to have advanced audio because SDL just doesn't offer it. Therefore the quality of my games would suffer not because of anything I did, but because I chose to use a inferior API for the engine in order to maintain cross-platform capabilities. If I use the Windows version of the engine based on DirectX I have access to all the advanced features, but can't just take it over to a Mac or Linux PC and cross-compile it without a major rewrite. What I've discovered in researching the problem I can get some decent solutions for two platforms but not for three platforms. Maybe there is one that works fine for Windows and Mac, Windows and Linux, but none that works for Windows, Mac, and Linux that are of the quality and standards I'm looking for and are affordable. Yes, I know Draconis has there engine for Mac and Windows, but it took a lot of time and work to do so. As I understand it they basically had to write their own game development APIs from scratch rather than use SDL or something like that. Even so at this point it only supports Windows, Mac OS, and iOS but not Linux. So its not exactly all inclusive either. So anyone even thinking cross-platform development has a rough road to travel. Cheers! On 3/24/13, Devin Prater r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, from what I've seen, they aren't. Now if only we had a game engine for everyone that was inclusive of other operating systems? Would one have to own a mac to even code/compile for it? Wait, Java works on everything right? But then, most audio games use TTS that other systems don't have, so java wouldn't work well with audio games on my mac. I gave my pc to my sister, so I'll have to find a VM. Anyways, perhaps BGT could do it, but I doubt Philip would want to expand into mac stuff, since everyone seems to think that windows is all there is. I know Draconis has made an engine that is inclusive, but that is only available for them. Devin Prater r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Tom. I'm sorry to hear about the various problems and bugs, and in fairness no coding or writing when ill is not possible, but at the same time part of the point of my message was to offer some encouragement, albeit some encouragement with a little tinge of frustration. At this point I don't really care which! game gets practically finished, but it'd be just great to see something done and dusted and out the door. I know a lot of behind the scenes work has been done on the genesis engine etc, and that you yourself are concerned about commitements to players, but at this point we're probably at a stage where any! released game would be a good hthing. As regards atmosphere, well I agree that is another reason shades of doom is such a classic and grabbed my attention as the first audio game I played. not only did it give me access to the fps genre for the first time (a genre which I've never found visually playable), but it did it in a fantastic way that had complete creepiness, with great enemies and an engine, heck, even the first shades of doom sound when you start the game is pretty scary :D. It's just that really awsoe design quality that makes you want to replay a game. It's even hard to defign since it is something some games just have and others do not. Terraformers for example I never found half as addictve as shades of doom, despite the very superior sfx music and environment, and while I have! replayed it, I've only ever done so once. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
hmm I am not as up with the play as I should be. It depends on the types of games that would work. python works with macs pcs both windows and linux. I know there is the mono dotnet opensource framework and thats supposed to work with everything with the same features as the windows dotnet client has. Now I have used in the past pascal and there is probably a client for all platforms. Standard c or c in general should work, linux is basically c anyway, so no big issue loads of compilers for all platforms. So a lot of stuff probably works visual basic probably won't work outside windows. Most stuff should work with windows from 98 up to server 2012, mac is slightly more tricky as is linux but I think a lot of stuff can be sourced for each os. We do have an issue with anything over that. I know we do have windows rt should we use it though no access supports = no use I'd imagine for now anyway. Mac I am not sure but there should be no issue as is linux. The iphone with restrictions may work though a lot seem to be jail breaking their units. Android is probably the option for least resistance. Its google and opensource probably has its apis somewhere online. the ios stuff if you make it by the rules needs licences by apple. and if you hack it well I don't know, I have been wanting an ios device for all the games with the reviews, but after all the hastle with all the restrictions I am not sure if I should just get one of the nexus devices. If there are sighted devs there is always xna I am not sure what we would need to run on xbox but assumedly its supposed to run on xbox 360s potentually. The rest soni etc nes whatever I am not sure about access but we already have a large extent of reach and choice on platform. ok not steam but we probably don't need that. there is also blackburry but hardly anyone uses that anyway. At 01:39 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote: Yes, from what I've seen, they aren't. Now if only we had a game engine for everyone that was inclusive of other operating systems? Would one have to own a mac to even code/compile for it? Wait, Java works on everything right? But then, most audio games use TTS that other systems don't have, so java wouldn't work well with audio games on my mac. I gave my pc to my sister, so I'll have to find a VM. Anyways, perhaps BGT could do it, but I doubt Philip would want to expand into mac stuff, since everyone seems to think that windows is all there is. I know Draconis has made an engine that is inclusive, but that is only available for them. Devin Prater r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com On Mar 24, 2013, at 7:34 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Thanks for saying that. If I can make my games enjoyable,, replayable, then I think I've succeeded as a game designer. It is the sort of games that a person plays once, completes it in a few hours, and finds they have no desire to replay the game I would consider a failure. There are, of course, a few audio games like that, but I'm glad to know my games aren't one of them. On 3/24/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi michael. I wasn't intending my comments about Tom's games to be insulting, nor would I want Tom to rush out a game on a whim that might be substandard, it's just that when talking of game design quality that gives a game that something that makes you want to replay it even after! you have played it before despite lack of secrets etc, is a quality Tom's games have very much had, (perhaps not final conflict but certainly his other games). It's like with books. Some books I read and think that's great! but they have very little reread value just because the prose aren't that interesting or the plot, while surprising the first time is really not the second time. Great books however have reread value, which is Why every few years I reread the hobbit, lotr, The silmarillion, William Horwood's first three duncton novels, since in their style, their creation of a world and their unique design they really stand out and can provide as much surprise and eloquence the second time around or even the 10th time around as the first. Beware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
to be honest it may be easier at this point if you just gave an old crappy directx8 version with all the sound as it was 3 years back to people that payed for it maybe the one you had to stop because of copywrite or its levels and change the title and drop it. I know thats probably not what you want to hear and for ages I supported you but I have moved on from that game and you probably should to. Lets face it, the espsoftworks/ james north experience has been a major changer in the history of this community and a big lesson and will always be the point or one of the points where we started trying to make things properly. I don't know about the rest but the monti/ mota game has been going far to long. And to be honest can anyone actually remember what it was about. Yes the racing game and the others james promised were a shame to loose but several years are between now and then. Yes they were good ideas still are but to be honest all that stuff has been hanging to long. I vote you just drop all james games you promised its to long in any case, and its really pushed other things away. I myself am still waiting for the second installment of stfc or whatever you finally call it. Ofcause I also await anything new that is going on. However the only thing I can remember are the people on the form complaining about each beta and everything. And while times were tough back then I feel to much time has been lost, to selvage anything. 3 story changes and a load of other stuff and then things went away. At some point to be coming back but I never was fully interested in that sort of game anyway though the racing game maybe. And to be honest we do need more sims. Even so you need to ask yourself why you are even doing these at all. These are your games, no one elses. It is all history now no matter how much cash was wasted its probably not worth it to just satisfy any other whiners on here. If others think me as been a rood nut tell me and I'll shutup however I think, enough is enough. James games should be put in a bin and left to rot. They were created before a lot of the newer tech came out and while I was really for it all 10 years back that was 10 years. And at any rate the industry seems to be basically at a standstill. A lot of stuff needs to happen before things start moving again. swamp is just about the only thing that keeps the industry active at least on the user end. Now that eventually will end, if that is all that is, it may come to pass that the audiogame market is for all perposes dead or at least stopped for now. I don't really want old games that well came out of one of the big wars that happened so long ago that I forgot what everything was about. Ofcause tom if you want to continue it should be your reason and your's alone that decides it. I think all obligations should be turfed, 10 years ago I would have preasured you day and night to do something but well. At 01:57 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark, You aren't the only one who is frustrated. None more so than me since the last few months I've fallen into a kind of funk. One where time has no meaning as such. What I mean by that I might work heavily on the game on February 12, and then discover the next time I work on the game it is March 23. It doesn't seem to me like it has been that long, but it is so easy to loose track of time that days and weeks go by between updates. So much time that the game has been dragging out from months to years. Of course, the principle problem is lack of motivation. I'm no longer driven to work every available minute of every day on it so I get to it when I get to it. What makes matters worse I have not been at my best health wise anyway . Just this week my son caught a nasty cold and now has given it to me. When I have a sore throat, headache, and am coughing I'm not exactly in a mood to sit down and program for hours on end. Add in some cold medicine that makes me tired and the best thing I can do is sleep rather than work. It seems this year I have caught every cold and flu bug coming and going and I've just not felt much like working on games. I'm hoping that somehow I will be able to get back up to my usual productivity, finish these games, get them out, and won't have them hanging over my head. I'm just as eager to see them completed as most people on the list. :D All that aside I know what you mean by wishing to revisit the atmosphere of the game. Shades of Doom doesn't have a very complex storyline as games goes, but it does not need one. The lab is challenging enough with all the various monsters that keeps me coming back over and over again. On the higher difficulty levels there is no certainty that I will even complete a game without being killed off which means I am able to pit myself against the game and sometimes I win sometimes I lose. It is this degree of replay value I hope to incorporate into my own games. On 3/22/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi
[Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
Hi Michael. On the replayability angle, I often find that games are replayable from the perspective of reexperiencing the atmosphere or story, or just trying to best the tough challenges another time. It is this that has made me replay shades of doom and Sarah. By the same tocan, i've replayed games like super Metroid and Mega man x 1 more times than I can count, just because the gameplay, design and structure, not to mention atmosphere and music are so perfectly designed. There are several audio games that I view in this same catagory, particularly Gma's offerings. So though I do completely agree random elements are great in games for keeping you on your toes, which is why games like smugglers and kerkerkruip are so awsome, they're not a necessity if design etc works out well. heck, this even goes for arcade games and is the reason i've replayed Q9 and the pinball games despite them being symple arcade titles. whether mota will fall into this catagory I am waiting to see, though i've been impressed enough with what we've seen thus far to think that tom's ability to not just code games but design them is up to the task, which is another reason I would so much appreciate seeing him produce an honest to goodness finished project, bet that the wrestling game, Arc of hope, an acessible castlevania type side scroller, a mission based startrek game or a vampire text rpg, heck I'd even! like to see raceway despite racing games not being a favourite genre of mine. Concepts are great, and what we've sene of Tom's design has been great, I just sometimes feel a little frustrated that with all these ideas we haven't yet seen anything that has gone past a couple of playable levels. I am quite aware that this isn't always Tom's fault, and have followed all the community debates and opinions (some not so flattering) that have been voiced. I am also aware of other commitments, but at the same time I do feel a little like usa games is the tantalus of the accessible games markit and just as we all reach for that big bunch of juicy grapes they get yanked away again for one reason or another. This isn't intended as an insult, just a statement of feelings and a continuation about the debate over game design, since I do genuinely believe Tom has the ability to design a real block buster, which is also why I would so much like to see a complete, or at least completely released game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] replayability and Usa games was Re: Looking For Something New to Play
I totally agree with what you're saying here Dark. A lot of unchannelled potential is going to waste for poor Tom. Thankfully, I've had enough experience with other aspects of life and my own creative tendency to wander to have more sympathy for what Tom's gone through than impatience for the game I've waited years for. I'd far rather have it take another decade and have it be the best game it can be than have Tom rush to just get it done and off his back. That's why I'm so incredibly careful not to impose any expectations or deadlines on my own projects. Even after I finish Enchantment's Twilight, it'll be a very long time in testing before I release it as a hopefully bug-free finished product. Books are where I tend to tread familiar ground the most. I often re-read old favorites whose characters and stories have become almost like comfortable companions for me. For me to replay games, the game play itself must in some way make this a worth-while experience. There are a great many ways of doing this from items which don't always appear to changed locations of things to secrets which might not be discovered the first time through. It does take a real effort to add this quality into a larger game. I look for opportunities such as greed and risk versus reward to have a game that really stands the test of time well. On 3/22/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Michael. On the replayability angle, I often find that games are replayable from the perspective of reexperiencing the atmosphere or story, or just trying to best the tough challenges another time. It is this that has made me replay shades of doom and Sarah. By the same tocan, i've replayed games like super Metroid and Mega man x 1 more times than I can count, just because the gameplay, design and structure, not to mention atmosphere and music are so perfectly designed. There are several audio games that I view in this same catagory, particularly Gma's offerings. So though I do completely agree random elements are great in games for keeping you on your toes, which is why games like smugglers and kerkerkruip are so awsome, they're not a necessity if design etc works out well. heck, this even goes for arcade games and is the reason i've replayed Q9 and the pinball games despite them being symple arcade titles. whether mota will fall into this catagory I am waiting to see, though i've been impressed enough with what we've seen thus far to think that tom's ability to not just code games but design them is up to the task, which is another reason I would so much appreciate seeing him produce an honest to goodness finished project, bet that the wrestling game, Arc of hope, an acessible castlevania type side scroller, a mission based startrek game or a vampire text rpg, heck I'd even! like to see raceway despite racing games not being a favourite genre of mine. Concepts are great, and what we've sene of Tom's design has been great, I just sometimes feel a little frustrated that with all these ideas we haven't yet seen anything that has gone past a couple of playable levels. I am quite aware that this isn't always Tom's fault, and have followed all the community debates and opinions (some not so flattering) that have been voiced. I am also aware of other commitments, but at the same time I do feel a little like usa games is the tantalus of the accessible games markit and just as we all reach for that big bunch of juicy grapes they get yanked away again for one reason or another. This isn't intended as an insult, just a statement of feelings and a continuation about the debate over game design, since I do genuinely believe Tom has the ability to design a real block buster, which is also why I would so much like to see a complete, or at least completely released game. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Michael Feir Volunteer at The Dam http://www.thedam.org 2011-- Twitter: mfeir Skype: michael-feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/personal-power.html A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/life-of-word-and-sound.html Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: http://www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes
