Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
They are cheap cars after all. Pretty good cheap cars but cheap cars none the less. We've gotten used to a certain standard with our MBs. Back when I was planning to buy Wonko's VW I did some research and found that especially on the older ones a rebuild including rings was common around 250,000 miles. -Curt Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:02:18 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: add084bb-e36e-4d92-b6bc-d969ccc07...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii My cousin sold the VW line for a decade. According to him, the cars are great brand new, but he would advise to never buy a used one. They have very poor long term quality. He would lease the cars for his own use, but never buy them. Not worth the pain once the cascading failures set in. clay 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
There is no such thing as a zero emissions vehicle. Mike On Nov 15, 2011 9:44 PM, Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: World's first series produced diesel-hybrid was just introduced by Peugeot in the form of the 3008 Hybrid4 with 200 bhp and CO2 emission as low as 99 g/km. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Diesel-Hybrid-Cars-Poised-for-Growth-in-Europe-223079.shtml Gerry The diesel powertrain produces a power output of 163 bhp and the electric motor generates an additional 37 bhp. Both powertrains are capable of running independently, which means it can run in the all-electric mode within cities and thus being a zero-emission vehicle. From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com Exactly!!! Why won't they listen to us? On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com wrote: So why not put a Diesel in instead of a gasser, and reap the benefits of both! ;) Walt On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Allan Streib wrote: A modern diesel in a similar sized car will significantly better a Prius in terms of fuel economy. ...except when stopped. The hybrids excel in situations where most drivers sit idling, or where there's a lot of stop and go. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Michael Canfield wrote: There is no such thing as a zero emissions vehicle. How about 'remote emissions vehicle', or REV? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
That is a much more accurate description. Mike On Nov 17, 2011 9:15 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Michael Canfield wrote: There is no such thing as a zero emissions vehicle. How about 'remote emissions vehicle', or REV? Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
On Nov 17, 2011 6:08 AM, Michael Canfield slozuk...@gmail.com wrote: There is no such thing as a zero emissions vehicle. What about an all-electric vehicle where the electricity comes from hydro- or wind-power? Picking nits, I know, but here in the PNW we do get an awful lot of our electricity from big turbines at bigger dams---nary a smokestack in sight. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
OK, another nit - what about the fossil fuel that went into building/manufacturing the dams/towers and equipment, distribution, etc.? You can't get something for nothing. Wilton - Original Message - From: Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? On Nov 17, 2011 6:08 AM, Michael Canfield slozuk...@gmail.com wrote: There is no such thing as a zero emissions vehicle. What about an all-electric vehicle where the electricity comes from hydro- or wind-power? Picking nits, I know, but here in the PNW we do get an awful lot of our electricity from big turbines at bigger dams---nary a smokestack in sight. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
My cousin sold the VW line for a decade. According to him, the cars are great brand new, but he would advise to never buy a used one. They have very poor long term quality. He would lease the cars for his own use, but never buy them. Not worth the pain once the cascading failures set in. clay 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Nov 16, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: MotorTrend calls the Passat TDI the sedan of the year (or some such foolishness) it was up against Camry and Sonata hybrids. -Curt Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:23:29 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: 4ec3e381.40...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 15/11/2011 5:57 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Allan Streib wrote: A modern diesel in a similar sized car will significantly better a Prius in terms of fuel economy. ...except when stopped. The hybrids excel in situations where most drivers sit idling, or where there's a lot of stop and go. Mitch. But diesels use very little at idle too which is one reason they outdo gasoline vehicles in mileage in town, if I am not mistaken. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net writes: My cousin sold the VW line for a decade. According to him, the cars are great brand new, but he would advise to never buy a used one. They have very poor long term quality. He would lease the cars for his own use, but never buy them. Not worth the pain once the cascading failures set in. Which decade? The cars sold around 2000 and forward had that reputation. You didn't want to own one after the warranty expired. I had a '91 Jetta for about 10 years and it was pretty trouble-free. Had one or two minor issues along the way, but nothing that ever left me stranded or cost very much to repair. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
On 15/11/2011 5:57 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Allan Streib wrote: A modern diesel in a similar sized car will significantly better a Prius in terms of fuel economy. ...except when stopped. The hybrids excel in situations where most drivers sit idling, or where there's a lot of stop and go. Mitch. But diesels use very little at idle too which is one reason they outdo gasoline vehicles in mileage in town, if I am not mistaken. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
MotorTrend calls the Passat TDI the sedan of the year (or some such foolishness) it was up against Camry and Sonata hybrids. -Curt Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:23:29 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: 4ec3e381.40...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 15/11/2011 5:57 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Allan Streib wrote: A modern diesel in a similar sized car will significantly better a Prius in terms of fuel economy. ...except when stopped. The hybrids excel in situations where most drivers sit idling, or where there's a lot of stop and go. Mitch. But diesels use very little at idle too which is one reason they outdo gasoline vehicles in mileage in town, if I am not mistaken. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Have you tried walking or public transit? A vehicle is a luxury for the better off, it's got wheels, it's gonna cost you money, stop whining. Hendrik who is always paying to keep machines working I understand that part. However, I need at least one of them to be reliable through the winter as well and I really dislike paying for repairs in a shop. I'm frugal! (when it comes to labour at any rate) Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Wow that was harsh! Or funny, if you had provided a wink emoticon On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.auwrote: Have you tried walking or public transit? A vehicle is a luxury for the better off, it's got wheels, it's gonna cost you money, stop whining. Hendrik who is always paying to keep machines working I understand that part. However, I need at least one of them to be reliable through the winter as well and I really dislike paying for repairs in a shop. I'm frugal! (when it comes to labour at any rate) Randy __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
The Car is a Harsh Mistress --R On 11/15/11 9:00 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: Wow that was harsh! Or funny, if you had provided a wink emoticon On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Hendrik Fayheni...@ozemail.com.auwrote: Have you tried walking or public transit? A vehicle is a luxury for the better off, it's got wheels, it's gonna cost you money, stop whining. Hendrik who is always paying to keep machines working I understand that part. However, I need at least one of them to be reliable through the winter as well and I really dislike paying for repairs in a shop. I'm frugal! (when it comes to labour at any rate) Randy __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
I'm in this school of thought. The purchase price of most of my cars is small enough that it doesn't matter compared to the upkeep and initial fixing. Once I am bored with it, let it go. Normally I get about what I paid a couple years earlier. Wife is in the opposite school of thought. She sees no reason to ever change cars unless the current one becomes so unpleasant to drive that it is annoying. Oddly enough - outside of being totally unreliable, reliability doesn't seem to be an issue to her, just so long as the unreliability is predictable. Her rule is Air, Power Steering and Auto Tranny. Outside of that anything goes. Her tolerance for my toys is high - (good thing) and her only founding automotive principle is that all payments must be avoided and non running cars are limited to parts to be removed and the shell\ has to be sent on. I enjoy tinkering so I get a new old car every couple of years - fix it up a little here and there - trying to keep it as cheap as possible. My communte i about 25K a year so it doesn't take long to get them pretty reliable, and then I pass them on to someone else. I'm only on my second Mercedes and I still own both of them. Peter On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 8:44 PM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: For me, the time to abandon a car is when I don't want to fix it anymore. It's just that simple. The old cars area as much a hobby as they are transportation. We've owned two new cars over the years - a '74 Opel that my wife purchased a few months before we met, and the '97 van that we bought for her after many cold winters in a '78 VW bus. As I look back on all the cars, the two that we bought new have been the most reliable and have needed the least maintenance. Perhaps that's luck, perhaps it's that I do all the maintenance on them. I'm about to enter a new hobby, and am re-thinking my older MBs -- and wondering if the advice an old indie used to give his customers when they asked what car should I buy? - he told them to buy a new MB and drive it the rest of their life (I don't know if that's the car's or the owner's life). I don't want to have to work on a car when I could be working on the Tailwind. A new TDI is under consideration, but I hate to not have an MB - so the cheapest C class is also in consideration. I do wish they sold the C class in the US with a CDI engine --- On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: I have no problem with conserving a nice car but don't tell me you can't drive it in the winter, thats lame. I've been driving diesels for the last 8 years, the newest was an '85, also an '84 and '83 and now a '78 which I'm daily driving right now because my '84 needs a carrier bearing. You COULD drive your car, plug in the block heater and it'll be warm enough to start in an hour or two, synthetic oil would help but is not required, the last winter I drove my '83 I used conventional oil. -Curt Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:59:28 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: 4ec18f40.3050...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 14/11/2011 3:37 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Harumph, this is what block heaters are for... -Curt My car is too old and too nice to subject it to our winters. And, the old diesels do not start like the newer ones when it gets really cold. Double batteries might help but even then, I believe I might have issues that are best avoided. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
How cold does it get where you are? Randy On 14/11/2011 7:55 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: I have no problem with conserving a nice car but don't tell me you can't drive it in the winter, thats lame. I've been driving diesels for the last 8 years, the newest was an '85, also an '84 and '83 and now a '78 which I'm daily driving right now because my '84 needs a carrier bearing. You COULD drive your car, plug in the block heater and it'll be warm enough to start in an hour or two, synthetic oil would help but is not required, the last winter I drove my '83 I used conventional oil. -Curt Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:59:28 -0600 From: Randy Bennellrbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID:4ec18f40.3050...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 14/11/2011 3:37 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Harumph, this is what block heaters are for... -Curt My car is too old and too nice to subject it to our winters. And, the old diesels do not start like the newer ones when it gets really cold. Double batteries might help but even then, I believe I might have issues that are best avoided. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Well, Hendrik is in Oz where it does not get so cold as here. In the dead of winter, I am essentially unable or unwilling to do much for myself. We sometimes get 2 or 3 weeks where the temperature does not get about minus 30C. That puts stress on a vehicle and is a common time to have issues. I used to suck it up and carry on with smaller jobs but I am getting old and less inclined to do it. I remember replacing a thermostat in my wife's 86 Taurus when it was minus 30 something C. I had a lamp over my hands to keep them from freezing. The bolts were small and corroded but I managed to get them out without breaking them with a propane torch and some penetrating oil. I know I should finish insulating my garage and that would permit me to do some things if I had to. Unfortunately, I am on a small city lot and my garage is really too small for major things anyway. The cars fit but my truck is almost too tall. If I had to jack it up much, I would run out of room quickly. I would also have to move my 300D out into the cold and it would need to be pushed around as I would not likely get it going unless I heated the garage with it in there and then opened the big door to get it out. Pushing it around when there is snow on the lane would not be easy either. Maybe even not doable. My wife would also have to park on the street for the duration of the repair. I have too much stuff in the garage now and there would hardly be room to move around the vehicle in any event. I need a bigger garage but do not have land space for it. I have been in this house for 30 years and have no plans to move so I am stuck in that regard. I do hope to clear enough space in my basement to move a metal lathe and a mill into the house in due course. I did insulate most of the garage walls a couple of years ago and installed a new insulated overhead door, but I still need to do the ceiling which is the bigger job and the more important one in cold weather. If I put my construction heater on, I just melt the snow off of the roof. The garage is 22X24 and has a steep pitched roof which permits some storage above the cars. My practice for many years was to have 2 drivable vehicles for my wife and I, and an old pickup truck that served as a backup. One of the vehicles was usually reasonably new and the other, older. For close to 10 years, about 1991 to 2001, I drove an 86 Suburban - 2WD. My wife had the 86 Taurus, and then a 97 Sable during that time. If one of them suffered a problem, one of us, usually me, drove the old truck until I got the daily vehicle repaired. In more recent years, (about the last 10) I have driven a 95 4Runner, and then a 98 F150, and then my current 02 F150 in winter (and most of the rest of the time too). For about the past 5 years or so, I have also had the 300D available to me in the warmer months - roughly April through October. Yesterday, late afternoon, I left the office about 4:30 and drove around on a dirt road close by in 4WD to warm the oil in the front diff and then went home and changed it. It needed it - quite dirty looking. I know I have not done it since I got the truck and feel bad about that. I had a bit of a struggle to do it. The plugs were reluctant to come out and I did not have a whole lot of room to lever them. If it was on a hoist, it likely would be easy but laying on the ground under the truck made it a bit difficult. I could have put an impact on the drain as it was accessible but the fill plug was not and I did not want to drain until I was sure I could re-fill. The thing is also aluminum and I wondered it it was a bad idea to use the impact. In any event I did get them out and refilled the diff. I feel good about that. I also did the transfer case on the weekend. It too was a little bit difficult due to close quarters. Partly my own fault as I did not jack the truck up. There was enough room to slide under without jacking. It needed it too. I still need to do the transmission but may send it to work with my mechanic son and have him do it at their shop. I bought the filter and the oil in the fall but did not get it done before the weather turrned colder here. Might warm enough to do it outside yet but was minus 5 C this morning and is supposed to be more like minus 10 to 15C by Thursday. I did change the tranny fluid and filter about 3 years ago but that would be 35K miles back so it should have been done this past summer. Randy in Winnipeg where it is cold and who needs to get back to work On 15/11/2011 8:00 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: Wow that was harsh! Or funny, if you had provided a wink emoticon On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Hendrik Fayheni...@ozemail.com.auwrote: Have you tried walking or public transit? A vehicle is a luxury for the better off, it's got wheels, it's gonna cost you money, stop whining. Hendrik who is always paying to keep machines working I understand that part. However, I need at least
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
It doesn't matter, the block heater takes care of that for you... But since you asked back when I lived in an apartment we'd get the occasional -20F day when I'd strap the ole 240D behind the Dakota and it'd start right up after a mile or so. That was before I bought a marine battery to keep in the trunk to power my 400w inverter to run the block heater which made the car start like it was July. You can't tell me nobody in Ottawa has ever driven a diesel in the cold before. If the 400w stock block heater is overwhelmed you install a radiator hose heater, those are usually 1000w and you have instant heat when the car starts. If its really cold you could even go to the Fairbanks package where you add a battery heater. Webasto even makes a key fob activated diesel fired heater. Truckers deal with these problems all the time... -Curt Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:31:07 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: 4ec293cb.8070...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed How cold does it get where you are? Randy On 14/11/2011 7:55 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: I have no problem with conserving a nice car but don't tell me you can't drive it in the winter, thats lame. I've been driving diesels for the last 8 years, the newest was an '85, also an '84 and '83 and now a '78 which I'm daily driving right now because my '84 needs a carrier bearing. You COULD drive your car, plug in the block heater and it'll be warm enough to start in an hour or two, synthetic oil would help but is not required, the last winter I drove my '83 I used conventional oil. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
It would seem that an all electric car would solve several of your problems, but Consumer Reports says the Nissan Leaf, for example, would probably not do well in the winter where you live: Consumer Reports tested a Leaf loaner under cold-weather driven as a daily commuter. The average range obtained was 105 kilometres (65 mi) per charge with temperatures varying from 20 to 30 °F (-7 to -1 °C). The magazine also reported one trip under a temperature of 10 °F (?12 °C) that began with the range panel indicator showing 32 kilometres (20 mi) remaining. After 13 kilometres (8 mi) the Leaf drastically lost power and dropped its speed and continued to run slower until the last stretch was completed almost at walking speed. Consumer Reports concluded that the Leaf works as designed under cold temperatures but a more accurate range indicator is desirable.[61] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf Gerry From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca Well, Hendrik is in Oz where it does not get so cold as here. In the dead of winter, I am essentially unable or unwilling to do much for myself. We sometimes get 2 or 3 weeks where the temperature does not get about minus 30C. That puts stress on a vehicle and is a common time to have issues. I used to suck it up and carry on with smaller jobs but I am getting old and less inclined to do it. I remember replacing a thermostat in my wife's 86 Taurus when it was minus 30 something C. I had a lamp over my hands to keep them from freezing. The bolts were small and corroded but I managed to get them out without breaking them with a propane torch and some penetrating oil. I know I should finish insulating my garage and that would permit me to do some things if I had to. Unfortunately, I am on a small city lot and my garage is really too small for major things anyway. The cars fit but my truck is almost too tall. If I had to jack it up much, I would run out of room quickly. I would also have to move my 300D out into the cold and it would need to be pushed around as I would not likely get it going unless I heated the garage with it in there and then opened the big door to get it out. Pushing it around when there is snow on the lane would not be easy either. Maybe even not doable. My wife would also have to park on the street for the duration of the repair. I have too much stuff in the garage now and there would hardly be room to move around the vehicle in any event. I need a bigger garage but do not have land space for it. I have been in this house for 30 years and have no plans to move so I am stuck in that regard. I do hope to clear enough space in my basement to move a metal lathe and a mill into the house in due course. I did insulate most of the garage walls a couple of years ago and installed a new insulated overhead door, but I still need to do the ceiling which is the bigger job and the more important one in cold weather. If I put my construction heater on, I just melt the snow off of the roof. The garage is 22X24 and has a steep pitched roof which permits some storage above the cars. My practice for many years was to have 2 drivable vehicles for my wife and I, and an old pickup truck that served as a backup. One of the vehicles was usually reasonably new and the other, older. For close to 10 years, about 1991 to 2001, I drove an 86 Suburban - 2WD. My wife had the 86 Taurus, and then a 97 Sable during that time. If one of them suffered a problem, one of us, usually me, drove the old truck until I got the daily vehicle repaired. In more recent years, (about the last 10) I have driven a 95 4Runner, and then a 98 F150, and then my current 02 F150 in winter (and most of the rest of the time too). For about the past 5 years or so, I have also had the 300D available to me in the warmer months - roughly April through October. Yesterday, late afternoon, I left the office about 4:30 and drove around on a dirt road close by in 4WD to warm the oil in the front diff and then went home and changed it. It needed it - quite dirty looking. I know I have not done it since I got the truck and feel bad about that. I had a bit of a struggle to do it. The plugs were reluctant to come out and I did not have a whole lot of room to lever them. If it was on a hoist, it likely would be easy but laying on the ground under the truck made it a bit difficult. I could have put an impact on the drain as it was accessible but the fill plug was not and I did not want to drain until I was sure I could re-fill. The thing is also aluminum and I wondered it it was a bad idea to use the impact. In any event I did get them out and refilled the diff. I feel good about that. I also did the transfer case on the weekend. It too was a little bit difficult due to close quarters. Partly my own fault as I did not jack the truck up. There was enough room to slide
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
I don't think I am quite that modern. I like IC engines. There are lots of Prius around here as they are used for taxi cabs. They must produce reasonable heat in the cold weather but I assume the mileage is not quite like it would be in summer. Randy On 15/11/2011 1:12 PM, Gerry Archer wrote: It would seem that an all electric car would solve several of your problems, but Consumer Reports says the Nissan Leaf, for example, would probably not do well in the winter where you live: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca writes: There are lots of Prius around here as they are used for taxi cabs. They must produce reasonable heat in the cold weather but I assume the mileage is not quite like it would be in summer. A modern diesel in a similar sized car will significantly better a Prius in terms of fuel economy. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Allan Streib wrote: A modern diesel in a similar sized car will significantly better a Prius in terms of fuel economy. ...except when stopped. The hybrids excel in situations where most drivers sit idling, or where there's a lot of stop and go. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
I sold a '79 300D which had a low-mileage crate motor to a guy in Canada back in 2002 (for something like $1000).I heard from him a few years ago and he was still driving it. He added a webasto stationary heater, diesel fired. He said it was very expensive (compared to the price of the car), but worked perfectly to warm up the car and the engine on a timer and make starting a breeze. Jaime On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: It doesn't matter, the block heater takes care of that for you... But since you asked back when I lived in an apartment we'd get the occasional -20F day when I'd strap the ole 240D behind the Dakota and it'd start right up after a mile or so. That was before I bought a marine battery to keep in the trunk to power my 400w inverter to run the block heater which made the car start like it was July. You can't tell me nobody in Ottawa has ever driven a diesel in the cold before. If the 400w stock block heater is overwhelmed you install a radiator hose heater, those are usually 1000w and you have instant heat when the car starts. If its really cold you could even go to the Fairbanks package where you add a battery heater. Webasto even makes a key fob activated diesel fired heater. Truckers deal with these problems all the time... -Curt Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:31:07 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: 4ec293cb.8070...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed How cold does it get where you are? Randy On 14/11/2011 7:55 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: I have no problem with conserving a nice car but don't tell me you can't drive it in the winter, thats lame. I've been driving diesels for the last 8 years, the newest was an '85, also an '84 and '83 and now a '78 which I'm daily driving right now because my '84 needs a carrier bearing. You COULD drive your car, plug in the block heater and it'll be warm enough to start in an hour or two, synthetic oil would help but is not required, the last winter I drove my '83 I used conventional oil. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
So why not put a Diesel in instead of a gasser, and reap the benefits of both! ;) Walt On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Allan Streib wrote: A modern diesel in a similar sized car will significantly better a Prius in terms of fuel economy. ...except when stopped. The hybrids excel in situations where most drivers sit idling, or where there's a lot of stop and go. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Exactly!!! Why won't they listen to us? On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com wrote: So why not put a Diesel in instead of a gasser, and reap the benefits of both! ;) Walt On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Allan Streib wrote: A modern diesel in a similar sized car will significantly better a Prius in terms of fuel economy. ...except when stopped. The hybrids excel in situations where most drivers sit idling, or where there's a lot of stop and go. Mitch. -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
No doubt they're expensive. I looked into it in about 2004 and it was around $1200 for the full install but it came with keyfob (like you'd use for a remote car starter) operation and burnt very little fuel, IIRC it could run for like 8 hours on a gallon of fuel. Probably should have bought one, could have transferred it from car to car. -Curt Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:00:13 -0500 From: Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: cacy-bajwaftqst_pwgawcrsssjhuyhv7n_f5c_gvtvepype...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I sold a '79 300D which had a low-mileage crate motor to a guy in Canada back in 2002 (for something like $1000).I heard from him a few years ago and he was still driving it. He added a webasto stationary heater, diesel fired. He said it was very expensive (compared to the price of the car), but worked perfectly to warm up the car and the engine on a timer and make starting a breeze. Jaime On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: It doesn't matter, the block heater takes care of that for you... But since you asked back when I lived in an apartment we'd get the occasional -20F day when I'd strap the ole 240D behind the Dakota and it'd start right up after a mile or so. That was before I bought a marine battery to keep in the trunk to power my 400w inverter to run the block heater which made the car start like it was July. You can't tell me nobody in Ottawa has ever driven a diesel in the cold before. If the 400w stock block heater is overwhelmed you install a radiator hose heater, those are usually 1000w and you have instant heat when the car starts. If its really cold you could even go to the Fairbanks package where you add a battery heater. Webasto even makes a key fob activated diesel fired heater. Truckers deal with these problems all the time... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
World's first series produced diesel-hybrid was just introduced by Peugeot in the form of the 3008 Hybrid4 with 200 bhp and CO2 emission as low as 99 g/km. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Diesel-Hybrid-Cars-Poised-for-Growth-in-Europe-223079.shtml Gerry The diesel powertrain produces a power output of 163 bhp and the electric motor generates an additional 37 bhp. Both powertrains are capable of running independently, which means it can run in the all-electric mode within cities and thus being a zero-emission vehicle. From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com Exactly!!! Why won't they listen to us? On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Walt Zarnoch zarnoch...@gmail.com wrote: So why not put a Diesel in instead of a gasser, and reap the benefits of both! ;) Walt On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Allan Streib wrote: A modern diesel in a similar sized car will significantly better a Prius in terms of fuel economy. ...except when stopped. The hybrids excel in situations where most drivers sit idling, or where there's a lot of stop and go. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] A lost cause?
I know that many of you are essentially bottom feeders when it comes to vehicles, and I mean no disrespect when I say that as I tend to fall into that category to a great extent myself. The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? I know that some of you firmly believe that a 123 wagon is the state of the art in the auto world etc but beyond that sort of blind devotion, what makes you continue or not continue with a vehicle? My younger son works as a mechanic in a shop that caters to people with more money than brains when it comes to classic vehicles and maybe that causes me to think more about some of this. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? Having re-read what I typed above, I womder if I am getting my point accross? I guess what I am hoping for is a bit of an ongoing thread with opinions by many of you setting forth your own philosophies on this sort of thing. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
A lost cause means owning a declining asset. I don't expect to retire from the proceeds of disposing of my W123 wagons, but then again I believe they will probably hold their own in value due to their great practicality and comparative scarcity. On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: I know that many of you are essentially bottom feeders when it comes to vehicles, and I mean no disrespect when I say that as I tend to fall into that category to a great extent myself. The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? I know that some of you firmly believe that a 123 wagon is the state of the art in the auto world etc but beyond that sort of blind devotion, what makes you continue or not continue with a vehicle? My younger son works as a mechanic in a shop that caters to people with more money than brains when it comes to classic vehicles and maybe that causes me to think more about some of this. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? Having re-read what I typed above, I womder if I am getting my point accross? I guess what I am hoping for is a bit of an ongoing thread with opinions by many of you setting forth your own philosophies on this sort of thing. Randy __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
I think all of my cars would be considered lost causes by normal people. The 300D needs a front-end rebuild. The 300SD is tapping my finances in a death by 1,000 cuts, and I haven't sorted out the ACC yet. I have a VW Vanagon project languishing in the driveway. But, they are as much a hobby as they are transportation. So in that sense they would become lost causes when the parts are either NLA or too expensive to justify. I have no illusions about ever making money on any of my cars. Allan On Monday, November 14, 2011 10:58 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: I know that many of you are essentially bottom feeders when it comes to vehicles, and I mean no disrespect when I say that as I tend to fall into that category to a great extent myself. The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? I know that some of you firmly believe that a 123 wagon is the state of the art in the auto world etc but beyond that sort of blind devotion, what makes you continue or not continue with a vehicle? My younger son works as a mechanic in a shop that caters to people with more money than brains when it comes to classic vehicles and maybe that causes me to think more about some of this. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? Having re-read what I typed above, I womder if I am getting my point accross? I guess what I am hoping for is a bit of an ongoing thread with opinions by many of you setting forth your own philosophies on this sort of thing. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
There is another way to look at it. Take a $1500 Benz, put a few hundred into making it safe, dependable and nice to ride in and start counting how much you save over making car payments and paying higher insurance for the newer car. If a penny saved is a penny earned then I am earning about $600 per month by driving a Mercedes. Mike On Nov 14, 2011 12:12 PM, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: A lost cause means owning a declining asset. I don't expect to retire from the proceeds of disposing of my W123 wagons, but then again I believe they will probably hold their own in value due to their great practicality and comparative scarcity. On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: I know that many of you are essentially bottom feeders when it comes to vehicles, and I mean no disrespect when I say that as I tend to fall into that category to a great extent myself. The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? I know that some of you firmly believe that a 123 wagon is the state of the art in the auto world etc but beyond that sort of blind devotion, what makes you continue or not continue with a vehicle? My younger son works as a mechanic in a shop that caters to people with more money than brains when it comes to classic vehicles and maybe that causes me to think more about some of this. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? Having re-read what I typed above, I womder if I am getting my point accross? I guess what I am hoping for is a bit of an ongoing thread with opinions by many of you setting forth your own philosophies on this sort of thing. Randy __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/ http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
The issue is more reliability I think -- if you have a beater sort of car that takes a bit of work and parts to keep running, but is essentially reliable (i.e., won't strand you somewhere due to catastrophic failure), then throwing a few bucks at it now and again, and some fix-it time, is not unreasonable. Unless it becomes a train wreck, then keep it going. Now your average wife probably has no sense of any of that, but that is just wifely thing, might as well live with it. But keeping the car going is probably cheaper than buying a new(er) one. -_R On 11/14/11 11:58 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: I know that many of you are essentially bottom feeders when it comes to vehicles, and I mean no disrespect when I say that as I tend to fall into that category to a great extent myself. The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? I know that some of you firmly believe that a 123 wagon is the state of the art in the auto world etc but beyond that sort of blind devotion, what makes you continue or not continue with a vehicle? My younger son works as a mechanic in a shop that caters to people with more money than brains when it comes to classic vehicles and maybe that causes me to think more about some of this. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? Having re-read what I typed above, I womder if I am getting my point accross? I guess what I am hoping for is a bit of an ongoing thread with opinions by many of you setting forth your own philosophies on this sort of thing. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
On 14/11/2011 11:12 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: A lost cause means owning a declining asset. I don't expect to retire from the proceeds of disposing of my W123 wagons, but then again I believe they will probably hold their own in value due to their great practicality and comparative scarcity. Are you able to adequately insure them? One of my concerns is that any sort of fairly minimal accident will write off my truck even if it is not my fault. And yes, we can buy them back and have them repaired etc but that is not always a winning situation either. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
On 14/11/2011 11:21 AM, Allan Streib wrote: I think all of my cars would be considered lost causes by normal people. The 300D needs a front-end rebuild. The 300SD is tapping my finances in a death by 1,000 cuts, and I haven't sorted out the ACC yet. I have a VW Vanagon project languishing in the driveway. But, they are as much a hobby as they are transportation. So in that sense they would become lost causes when the parts are either NLA or too expensive to justify. I have no illusions about ever making money on any of my cars. Allan I understand that part. However, I need at least one of them to be reliable through the winter as well and I really dislike paying for repairs in a shop. I'm frugal! (when it comes to labour at any rate) Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
My 83 300d is just as, or more, reliable than a new car. Mike On Nov 14, 2011 1:00 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 14/11/2011 11:21 AM, Allan Streib wrote: I think all of my cars would be considered lost causes by normal people. The 300D needs a front-end rebuild. The 300SD is tapping my finances in a death by 1,000 cuts, and I haven't sorted out the ACC yet. I have a VW Vanagon project languishing in the driveway. But, they are as much a hobby as they are transportation. So in that sense they would become lost causes when the parts are either NLA or too expensive to justify. I have no illusions about ever making money on any of my cars. Allan I understand that part. However, I need at least one of them to be reliable through the winter as well and I really dislike paying for repairs in a shop. I'm frugal! (when it comes to labour at any rate) Randy __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
On 14/11/2011 11:22 AM, Michael Canfield wrote: There is another way to look at it. Take a $1500 Benz, put a few hundred into making it safe, dependable and nice to ride in and start counting how much you save over making car payments and paying higher insurance for the newer car. If a penny saved is a penny earned then I am earning about $600 per month by driving a Mercedes. Mike I do understand that part as well. Our winters are such that I cannot or will not drive the toys in the worst of the weather. My 300D probably would not start anyway when it gets really cold. That is why I drive the truck through the winter. I have been toying with the idea of an older GM (shudder!). Probably either a Buick Le Sabre from around 2000 which would be relatively cheap and get fair fuel economy. A bit of a throw away car so run it and then run away from it. That is one of the reasons for my original post on the subject. I can be prone to keeping things too long and fixing them before dumping them which is a money losing proposition. However, I just saw a listing for a 96 Caprice and have always liked the look of those too. It is not an Impala SS but still looks pretty smooth. Again, however, would not really want to make it a winter beater either. Too many choices and not enough parking spots. My other toys are less demanding. I have collected several older boats that await my time and efforts too but at least I don't need them at this time of the year. Randy in the frozen north ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
I have a son who will soon be buying his first car, which, if I have any input, will be a decent W123 or W126 chassis. Why? A number of reasons: 1.) The acquisition cost. A young person with a few thousand $$ and minimal income can't afford anything remotely late model that isn't a beater and/or will require expensive repairs because there is so little the typical owner can do on newer cars. 2.) Value. Despite the age, these cars hold their value, as little as it might be. 3.) Repair costs. Short of a major catastrophe, such as an engine or transmission, these cars aren't that expensive to repair. 4.) Going back to #1, the ability for most owners to maintain these cars gives them the ability to add to their skill set by learning how to maintain the car. Forums such as this as well as the easy availability of manuals and related materials makes the task that much easier. There are certainly some downsides to this approach, such as the time involved in maintaining the car, and having the resources to do it, but I think in the long run it's a win-win - especially in situations like this. Dan Sent from my iPhone On Nov 14, 2011, at 12:48 PM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: The issue is more reliability I think -- if you have a beater sort of car that takes a bit of work and parts to keep running, but is essentially reliable (i.e., won't strand you somewhere due to catastrophic failure), then throwing a few bucks at it now and again, and some fix-it time, is not unreasonable. Unless it becomes a train wreck, then keep it going. Now your average wife probably has no sense of any of that, but that is just wifely thing, might as well live with it. But keeping the car going is probably cheaper than buying a new(er) one. -_R On 11/14/11 11:58 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: I know that many of you are essentially bottom feeders when it comes to vehicles, and I mean no disrespect when I say that as I tend to fall into that category to a great extent myself. The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? I know that some of you firmly believe that a 123 wagon is the state of the art in the auto world etc but beyond that sort of blind devotion, what makes you continue or not continue with a vehicle? My younger son works as a mechanic in a shop that caters to people with more money than brains when it comes to classic vehicles and maybe that causes me to think more about some of this. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? Having re-read what I typed above, I womder if I am getting my point accross? I guess what I am hoping for is a bit of an ongoing thread with opinions by many of you setting forth your own philosophies on this sort of thing. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Randy Bennell wrote: I know that many of you are essentially bottom feeders when it comes to vehicles, and I mean no disrespect when I say that as I tend to fall into that category to a great extent myself. Beaters-R-Us! The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? Easy! When the cost exceeds the value. Oh, but cost can be tricky 'cause it's not just money but time, confidence, irritation, dependability, etc. And value is hard to pin down too - with factors of appearance, sentiment, availability, status, function, capability, etc. There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? A wagon better fits what I need a car for, and are harder to find, so the value is higher. Therefore I'm willing to spend more on them. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? I retired my 1/2-ton farm truck when I found a similar 3/4-ton with a better body. Since the 1/2-ton did not have the capacity I wanted/needed and the body rusted to the point the doors wouldn't close well, I choose to look for a higher-capacity truck. That was an easy choice since even if the 1/2-ton was in perfect condition it would not be what I wanted. Seem I typically place a big order with Rusty once or twice a year. While it could seem out-of-balance to spend $500 on parts for a car I bought for less than $2000 I think of it as the price of one car payment and I feel much better. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Simple point: There are two values to be considered. 1. Resale value. If you buy and make payments on a NEW vehicle, the resale value declines from the moment you take possession. The more you make payments [thus own it] the lower the value as it gets use and age. A USED vehicle, such as many here own and operate, has reached it's apex of decline in value. Thus it's value becomes #2. 2. Service value. This would be the value of the service the vehicle gives you in relation to money spent vs a new vehicle cost. ie. New car. $65,000 + insurance costs of say $2,200 a year [full coverage] + finance charges, + etc etc etc. In an example, if I pay $1,500 for a MBZ, + $500 for front end parts, + $$$ for new filters, + a new set of tires, + $$$ for misc, + insurance costs at a lower rate for the older car [no need for full coverage insurance] ... yet it drives me in comfort and style to anywhere I want at any time I want, what is my Service Value. When the vehicle reaches the tipping point where Service Value and Hard Costs cross, it can become recycle material and at todays scrap prices pay you back yet one more time. Until then, Q is employed providing parts, we are satisfied to exercise our skills to keep the cars operational, comfortable, and safe. The only thing that suffers is the ego that demands driving a New Car. [ By choice I do not enter into the realm of issues raised by SWMBO, or SIgnificant Others Just a mechanic not a phsycologist] Grant... AZ On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: Randy Bennell wrote: I know that many of you are essentially bottom feeders when it comes to vehicles, and I mean no disrespect when I say that as I tend to fall into that category to a great extent myself. Beaters-R-Us! The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? Easy! When the cost exceeds the value. Oh, but cost can be tricky 'cause it's not just money but time, confidence, irritation, dependability, etc. And value is hard to pin down too - with factors of appearance, sentiment, availability, status, function, capability, etc. There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? A wagon better fits what I need a car for, and are harder to find, so the value is higher. Therefore I'm willing to spend more on them. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? I retired my 1/2-ton farm truck when I found a similar 3/4-ton with a better body. Since the 1/2-ton did not have the capacity I wanted/needed and the body rusted to the point the doors wouldn't close well, I choose to look for a higher-capacity truck. That was an easy choice since even if the 1/2-ton was in perfect condition it would not be what I wanted. Seem I typically place a big order with Rusty once or twice a year. While it could seem out-of-balance to spend $500 on parts for a car I bought for less than $2000 I think of it as the price of one car payment and I feel much better. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
I only consider it Lost when rust has taken it to the extent it cannot be repaired reasonably - rockers, floors, quarters, all or any can push a car over the edge. But if the rust is under control, it takes a lot to stop. I calculate what it will cost ti bring a car back to nice roadworthy condition and compare the total with what I could buy for that kind of money. about 15 years ago I put $3000 into my 78 240D - that rebuilt the engine, suspension and a few odds and ends. Compare what I could buy for $3000 and if you're not into older cars like most of us and wanted a 3-5 yr old used Honda - you couldn't touch one for $3K. Believe it or not, some people don't want a 25 yr old MB - and want something much newer. I know - unimaginable. ;-) That's how I calculate it. LarryT 91 300D (like brand new) -Original Message- From: Randy Bennell Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:58 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] A lost cause? I know that many of you are essentially bottom feeders when it comes to vehicles, and I mean no disrespect when I say that as I tend to fall into that category to a great extent myself. The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? I know that some of you firmly believe that a 123 wagon is the state of the art in the auto world etc but beyond that sort of blind devotion, what makes you continue or not continue with a vehicle? My younger son works as a mechanic in a shop that caters to people with more money than brains when it comes to classic vehicles and maybe that causes me to think more about some of this. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? Having re-read what I typed above, I womder if I am getting my point accross? I guess what I am hoping for is a bit of an ongoing thread with opinions by many of you setting forth your own philosophies on this sort of thing. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
On 14/11/2011 12:54 PM, Fmiser wrote: The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? Easy! When the cost exceeds the value. Oh, but cost can be tricky 'cause it's not just money but time, confidence, irritation, dependability, etc. And value is hard to pin down too - with factors of appearance, sentiment, availability, status, function, capability, etc. There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? A wagon better fits what I need a car for, and are harder to find, so the value is higher. Therefore I'm willing to spend more on them. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? I retired my 1/2-ton farm truck when I found a similar 3/4-ton with a better body. Since the 1/2-ton did not have the capacity I wanted/needed and the body rusted to the point the doors wouldn't close well, I choose to look for a higher-capacity truck. That was an easy choice since even if the 1/2-ton was in perfect condition it would not be what I wanted. I too have considered a 3/4 ton but I rarely need the ability to haul that much. My primary desire is the diesel version which makes me look at 3/4 tons. I want a Dodge with the Cummins but if I drove it like I do the F150 I would likely kill it in winter with all my short trips. In summer it would be good for the highway runs to the lake and for launching and retrieving boats etc. So far, the F150 does it all and I suppose I should be smart enough to enjoy and leave well enough alone, but how many of us can do that?? Seem I typically place a big order with Rusty once or twice a year. While it could seem out-of-balance to spend $500 on parts for a car I bought for less than $2000 I think of it as the price of one car payment and I feel much better. --Philip I do truly understand the desire to avoid depreciation and to have lower insurance costs etc. However, there is something to be said for late model vehicles. My wife has had her 07 Accord since it was about a year old and is very happy with it. I, on the other hand have had to do almost nothing on it, so I am happy too. We change the oil and we swap summer and winter tires on and off. It had something like 25K miles on it when she got it and I think it has 42K or so miles on it now. Most of her travel is close to home. It rarely sees the highway and her commute to work is maybe a mile or two. Nice to have a vehicle that rarely needs me. My truck has been good to me as well. It is an 02 and it has about 153K miles on it. It had about 90K on it when I got it about 5 years ago. I have done brakes, a axle seals, pinion seal, ball joints, a power door lock actuator and that is about it apart from oil changes, etc, and a set of spark plugs and a couple of coils (but they were not the fault of the truck per se). I have to say it has been nice to have a vehicle that did not need attention regularly over the past few years. However, I paid $17500 for it and it is now worth maybe $8 so I have paid for my trouble free travel. Prices may sound high to you but I am in Canada and we do tend to get hosed. It is a nice truck - Lariat with leather etc. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
If thats true than every new car is a lost cause. New cars depreciate massively... I figure its a lost cause if the repairs are worth more to me than the car. I drive a lot (~30,000 miles a year) so I find an MB to be quite cheap transportation. I drove my last 240D about 25,000 miles for ~$2500 plus the cost of fuel. My 190D did about 90,000 miles for around $5000, I was quite pleased with both. My current 240D cost around $1500, I've done about 30,000 miles so far, I've yet to do any major repairs yet, it is looking a little ragged though, needs some cosmetics... A used car is almost always cheaper to maintain than a new car payment. Even a cheap car is going to cost you $300/mo, that does a lot of repairs... -Curt Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:12:49 -0500 From: andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: CAC35L=seg-i4iunbwpi8pugchgryaoc6-dwhbuuc4hrj011...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 A lost cause means owning a declining asset. I don't expect to retire from the proceeds of disposing of my W123 wagons, but then again I believe they will probably hold their own in value due to their great practicality and comparative scarcity. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Harumph, this is what block heaters are for... -Curt Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:06:10 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: 4ec15892.8070...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 14/11/2011 11:22 AM, Michael Canfield wrote: There is another way to look at it. Take a $1500 Benz, put a few hundred into making it safe, dependable and nice to ride in and start counting how much you save over making car payments and paying higher insurance for the newer car. If a penny saved is a penny earned then I am earning about $600 per month by driving a Mercedes. Mike I do understand that part as well. Our winters are such that I cannot or will not drive the toys in the worst of the weather. My 300D probably would not start anyway when it gets really cold. That is why I drive the truck through the winter. I have been toying with the idea of an older GM (shudder!). Probably either a Buick Le Sabre from around 2000 which would be relatively cheap and get fair fuel economy. A bit of a throw away car so run it and then run away from it. That is one of the reasons for my original post on the subject. I can be prone to keeping things too long and fixing them before dumping them which is a money losing proposition. However, I just saw a listing for a 96 Caprice and have always liked the look of those too. It is not an Impala SS but still looks pretty smooth. Again, however, would not really want to make it a winter beater either. Too many choices and not enough parking spots. My other toys are less demanding. I have collected several older boats that await my time and efforts too but at least I don't need them at this time of the year. Randy in the frozen north ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
In my case the tipping point was reached when SWMBO decided she wanted a 21st. century vehicle to replace the '79 300TD. I found a nice 2003 Jetta TDI for her. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Randy Bennell Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:58 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] A lost cause? I know that many of you are essentially bottom feeders when it comes to vehicles, and I mean no disrespect when I say that as I tend to fall into that category to a great extent myself. The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? I know that some of you firmly believe that a 123 wagon is the state of the art in the auto world etc but beyond that sort of blind devotion, what makes you continue or not continue with a vehicle? My younger son works as a mechanic in a shop that caters to people with more money than brains when it comes to classic vehicles and maybe that causes me to think more about some of this. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? Having re-read what I typed above, I womder if I am getting my point accross? I guess what I am hoping for is a bit of an ongoing thread with opinions by many of you setting forth your own philosophies on this sort of thing. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Greg Fiorentino wrote: In my case the tipping point was reached when SWMBO decided she wanted a 21st. century vehicle to replace the '79 300TD. I found a nice 2003 Jetta TDI for her. I've never seen a used TDI that I'd consider paying the advertised price for. Now if I wanted to buy a new car that would still have resale value with 150,000 miles on it, the TDI would merit a close look. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
On 14/11/2011 3:40 PM, Greg Fiorentino wrote: In my case the tipping point was reached when SWMBO decided she wanted a 21st. century vehicle to replace the '79 300TD. I found a nice 2003 Jetta TDI for her. Greg I understand that point too. My good wife has no desire to drive a beater. She may well be prepared to drive her current car into the ground, but she does not wish to start out with a junker. That may well be because I fail to keep things up to her standards. If one drives a vehicle all the time, then one thinks about fixing things that annoy. However, I rarely drive her vehicle and the result is that she tells me about some issue but I forget and it goes on for long enough to annoy her. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
On 14/11/2011 3:37 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Harumph, this is what block heaters are for... -Curt My car is too old and too nice to subject it to our winters. And, the old diesels do not start like the newer ones when it gets really cold. Double batteries might help but even then, I believe I might have issues that are best avoided. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Randy Bennell wrote: I understand that point too. My good wife has no desire to drive a beater. She may well be prepared to drive her current car into the ground, but she does not wish to start out with a junker. http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/cto/2676416497.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
For the most part maintenance is the key to not getting stranded. I've only ever been stranded twice and both times I should have known better. One was a water pump that failed after dripping coolant for a couple weeks, the second was a wheel bearing I'd let go too long. My $400 240D never stranded me anywhere but I fixed every driveability problem (as opposed to cosmetic issues) immediately upon discovery... Maintenance is also the key to keeping a car for a long time. You MUST fix every single problem immediately. If you let an issue fester the next time something happens you have two issues and later three or four issues and eventually you decide its not worth keeping because it has so many issues... -Curt Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:48:43 -0500 From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: 4ec1547b.7040...@constructivity.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed The issue is more reliability I think -- if you have a beater sort of car that takes a bit of work and parts to keep running, but is essentially reliable (i.e., won't strand you somewhere due to catastrophic failure), then throwing a few bucks at it now and again, and some fix-it time, is not unreasonable. Unless it becomes a train wreck, then keep it going. Now your average wife probably has no sense of any of that, but that is just wifely thing, might as well live with it. But keeping the car going is probably cheaper than buying a new(er) one. -_R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
I have been struggling with this question lately also, especially the last two weekends when I was putting used u-pull transmissions into two different 25+ YO cars to bring the fleet back up to 4 operational vehicles. Currently the fleet is this; 1977 240D 413K mi. My daily driver, probably less than $2000 invested to keep it and it's predecessor '79 240d running since 1995 or so. 1998 Volvo S70 GLT, 180K mi. SWMBO daily driver, total investment of $1900 also, was bought with blown head gasket for $300, Now has blown timing belt (and bent valves) don't know why belt, WP and tensioners are only 20k mi old. 1985 190E 145K miles, Kid 2 daily driver, just bought this year with bad transmission, about $1100 invested, runs and drives, haven't even checked tune yet. 1986 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 165K miles Kid 3 daily driver, probably $700 invested. 1983 Volvo 245 Turbo - Somewhere around 300K miles, standby car, don't know how much invested, probably less than $2000 just did clutch and u-pull OD transmission for net cost of $165 over the weekend. 1989 Chev G20 conversion van 165K miles, has been down for paint and parts replacement for 3 years, was SWMBOs daily before it got rear ended. Probably somewhere around $6000 invested. Other vehicles that will not be roadworthy in the near future are omitted. I have never bought a new car, or one that is less than 3 years old. Most of my former daily drivers go straight to scrap. I don't count consumables in the total investment, (fluids, tires, licensing, taxes etc.) only hard parts I live in the pacific NW so rust from below is not an issue (only rust from above) I have only taken a car to a shop for someone else to work on 3 times in the last 15 years. Jim Cathey inspires me. I have been asking myself if it is worth it, dollar wise, yes timewise I spend alot of time maintaining this fleet but there is no way I could afford to have two kids driving any other way. I don't trust newer cars, I bought the S70 with reservations and it served well for two years, and now I have to pull the damn head again. When to call it a lost cause? If I had a 240D that needed an engine it would probably get crushed, just too expensive. but I will spend $1000 on front end parts on a 123, they can come off and go on the next one. Rust or body work will cause me to scrap them too, don't have the equipment for that. And then there is when everyone in the family refuses to drive something SWMBO has done this but the kids haven't figured out that this is an option. David Liddell Lynnwood, Wa. Cheap, and proud of it. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Randy Bennell Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:58 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] A lost cause? I know that many of you are essentially bottom feeders when it comes to vehicles, and I mean no disrespect when I say that as I tend to fall into that category to a great extent myself. The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? I know that some of you firmly believe that a 123 wagon is the state of the art in the auto world etc but beyond that sort of blind devotion, what makes you continue or not continue with a vehicle? My younger son works as a mechanic in a shop that caters to people with more money than brains when it comes to classic vehicles and maybe that causes me to think more about some of this. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? Having re-read what I typed above, I womder if I am getting my point accross? I guess what I am hoping for is a bit of an ongoing thread with opinions by many of you setting forth your own philosophies on this sort of thing. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
David wrote: I have never bought a new car, or one that is less than 3 years old. Segue to age of vehicles driven - sorta... Today, I drive a 1984 240D with clutch - 27 years old. We drove the rusted 1975 Chevy Nova to the junk yard in 2006 - 31 years old. When we married in 1974, I purchased a 1965 Chevy - 9 years old. In 1984 when the family had numerous kids, we drove a 1974 VW Transporter - 19 years old. In 1987 when the family still had numerous kids, we drove a 1984 Chevy diesel van - 4 years old. I could never have imagined that I would drive a 27 year old car when I purchased our first car in 1974 - that would have been a 1947 car? Yet my kids drive a 28 year old 240D - older than they are. Odd... the older I get, the older the car I drive becomes? Seems opposite to what seems practical, but I don't see any cars on the road today that have any safety advantage to W123. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
I have no problem with conserving a nice car but don't tell me you can't drive it in the winter, thats lame. I've been driving diesels for the last 8 years, the newest was an '85, also an '84 and '83 and now a '78 which I'm daily driving right now because my '84 needs a carrier bearing. You COULD drive your car, plug in the block heater and it'll be warm enough to start in an hour or two, synthetic oil would help but is not required, the last winter I drove my '83 I used conventional oil. -Curt Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:59:28 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: 4ec18f40.3050...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 14/11/2011 3:37 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Harumph, this is what block heaters are for... -Curt My car is too old and too nice to subject it to our winters. And, the old diesels do not start like the newer ones when it gets really cold. Double batteries might help but even then, I believe I might have issues that are best avoided. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
For me, the time to abandon a car is when I don't want to fix it anymore. It's just that simple. The old cars area as much a hobby as they are transportation. We've owned two new cars over the years - a '74 Opel that my wife purchased a few months before we met, and the '97 van that we bought for her after many cold winters in a '78 VW bus. As I look back on all the cars, the two that we bought new have been the most reliable and have needed the least maintenance. Perhaps that's luck, perhaps it's that I do all the maintenance on them. I'm about to enter a new hobby, and am re-thinking my older MBs -- and wondering if the advice an old indie used to give his customers when they asked what car should I buy? - he told them to buy a new MB and drive it the rest of their life (I don't know if that's the car's or the owner's life). I don't want to have to work on a car when I could be working on the Tailwind. A new TDI is under consideration, but I hate to not have an MB - so the cheapest C class is also in consideration. I do wish they sold the C class in the US with a CDI engine --- On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: I have no problem with conserving a nice car but don't tell me you can't drive it in the winter, thats lame. I've been driving diesels for the last 8 years, the newest was an '85, also an '84 and '83 and now a '78 which I'm daily driving right now because my '84 needs a carrier bearing. You COULD drive your car, plug in the block heater and it'll be warm enough to start in an hour or two, synthetic oil would help but is not required, the last winter I drove my '83 I used conventional oil. -Curt Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:59:28 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: 4ec18f40.3050...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 14/11/2011 3:37 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Harumph, this is what block heaters are for... -Curt My car is too old and too nice to subject it to our winters. And, the old diesels do not start like the newer ones when it gets really cold. Double batteries might help but even then, I believe I might have issues that are best avoided. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
OK Don wrote: A new TDI is under consideration, but I hate to not have an MB - so the cheapest C class is also in consideration. I do wish they sold the C class in the US with a CDI engine --- If they've got a C63, why can't they give us a C420 CDI? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Well when you get ready to sell them old diesels let me know Sent from my iPhone On Nov 14, 2011, at 8:44 PM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: For me, the time to abandon a car is when I don't want to fix it anymore. It's just that simple. The old cars area as much a hobby as they are transportation. We've owned two new cars over the years - a '74 Opel that my wife purchased a few months before we met, and the '97 van that we bought for her after many cold winters in a '78 VW bus. As I look back on all the cars, the two that we bought new have been the most reliable and have needed the least maintenance. Perhaps that's luck, perhaps it's that I do all the maintenance on them. I'm about to enter a new hobby, and am re-thinking my older MBs -- and wondering if the advice an old indie used to give his customers when they asked what car should I buy? - he told them to buy a new MB and drive it the rest of their life (I don't know if that's the car's or the owner's life). I don't want to have to work on a car when I could be working on the Tailwind. A new TDI is under consideration, but I hate to not have an MB - so the cheapest C class is also in consideration. I do wish they sold the C class in the US with a CDI engine --- On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: I have no problem with conserving a nice car but don't tell me you can't drive it in the winter, thats lame. I've been driving diesels for the last 8 years, the newest was an '85, also an '84 and '83 and now a '78 which I'm daily driving right now because my '84 needs a carrier bearing. You COULD drive your car, plug in the block heater and it'll be warm enough to start in an hour or two, synthetic oil would help but is not required, the last winter I drove my '83 I used conventional oil. -Curt Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:59:28 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A lost cause? Message-ID: 4ec18f40.3050...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 14/11/2011 3:37 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Harumph, this is what block heaters are for... -Curt My car is too old and too nice to subject it to our winters. And, the old diesels do not start like the newer ones when it gets really cold. Double batteries might help but even then, I believe I might have issues that are best avoided. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
One word: rust. Too much rust, time to move on. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 19:32:00 -0600 Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: In 1984 when the family had numerous kids, we drove a 1974 VW Transporter - 19 years old. There is something wrong with this sentence. A typo for 19? Seems opposite to what seems practical, but I don't see any cars on the road today that have any safety advantage to W123. You're saying that a W124 with air bags is not safer than a W123? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
Amen to that. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '87 300SDL (318,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi) On 11/14/2011 9:02 PM, Max wrote: One word: rust. Too much rust, time to move on. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A lost cause?
I fully got the point Andrew. Just had to make the choice with Gump a few months ago. Now I have to review that choice when looking at a R107. Same batch of parts I already have and will probably end up with many of the same issues I had with Gump. Letting go of Gump, a 72 220D was a real emotional issue. I had put so much care and love into getting her closer to a pretty car instead of just a rat rod 30 footer. It is akin to having to put Grandma down. We could have massive cash infusions to keep her around, but in the end, will it be more humane to just call it a day and let go? Gump had already sucked up $1800 for suspension rebuild a few weeks before she took out her engine. Was going to be a $2k task to get her engine back to functional, with cracked pistons, and camshaft support snapped. Then I was going to have to do more rust repair, a repaint, glass and trim seals. A bunch more interior work to bring her up to same quality inside and out. Nickel and dime expenses the rest of her life. I love the car, but I could not see myself having to explain to SWMBA every time something needed attention. She hated the car. It was a junker in her eyes from the day it showed up and was unreliable. AT least I now know how quickly I will be taken off life support or tossed into a care facility. clay On Nov 14, 2011, at 8:58 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: I know that many of you are essentially bottom feeders when it comes to vehicles, and I mean no disrespect when I say that as I tend to fall into that category to a great extent myself. The question for you is essentially, when do you call it a lost cause? There has to be a time when a vehicle ceased to be worth putting money into it. How do you decide at what point that happens? I know that some of you firmly believe that a 123 wagon is the state of the art in the auto world etc but beyond that sort of blind devotion, what makes you continue or not continue with a vehicle? My younger son works as a mechanic in a shop that caters to people with more money than brains when it comes to classic vehicles and maybe that causes me to think more about some of this. I have my 76 115 300D and know that whatever I put into it has to be for my enjoyment as I will never make money on it. The same goes for my 02 F150 Supercrew. I really like it and so far it has not cost me a whole lot but it is about 10 years old and has over 150K miles on it so cost must mount over time. I have been thinking about another car but am really reluctant to spend big dollars on something new or even newer so I have this mental dilemma. Am I crazy to get involved in something that will no doubt cause me some grief??? Having re-read what I typed above, I womder if I am getting my point accross? I guess what I am hoping for is a bit of an ongoing thread with opinions by many of you setting forth your own philosophies on this sort of thing. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
