Re: Can't send mail from my profile

[Nick Wilson]

* Knute <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [020108 08:39]:
> Ok,  I've been fighting this for awhile now and I'm getting
> tired of it.
> 
> It was actually the reason that I joined his list anyway.
> 8o)
> 
> I can't send mail from mutt on my computer, and I'm not
> sure why.
> 
> I know that my config files are ok, cause I can send mail
> from mutt from my son's login, using my config files!
> 
> When I try to send mail, it comes up with the To:
> I put that in, then the Subject: comes up, and when I put
> something in there and hit enter,  it just stays there.
> Any ideas?

Hi
Sounds like the editor you've chosen does'nt exist in your profile.
I suggest this because it took me a while to work out that my call to
vim should actually be to vi (same thing but on my redhat box this is
how it's done) If the editor won't run then nothing happens,

Check the editor you call is in your profiles path as it clearly is with
your sons.

HTH.
-- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com






msg22562/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Bold text

[Nick Wilson]

* Samuel Padgett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [020108 08:39]:
> Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > I use vim as my editor and can't work out how to make portions of my
> > text bold? I know many of you use vim so I hope someone can help.
> 
> Some MUAs will display "a^Ha" (aa) as a bold "a".  Is this what
> you mean?

I think I'm just confused, I think now I'll settle with *bold*

Cheers
-- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com






msg22561/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Dale Woolridge]

On  7-Jan-2002 19:53 Derek D. Martin wrote:
| 
| Mutt sucks much less (for me) today!  =8^)  I'd still really really
| like to see the pgp key selection stuff cleaned up, and I'd also

Have a look at http://www.woolridge.org/mutt/ for a patch which will
probably address the issues you've raised.  It was created against
1.3.25, but it might work with 1.3.22.  I'd certainly like to verify
how far back in the 1.3.x branch it will work.

regards.
--
-Dale

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Philip Mak]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 08:59:04PM -0500, Derek D. Martin wrote:
> > > Mike L, if you have tricks for figuring out WHICH mozilla window the
> > > page will pop up in, I'd like to see that.  
> 
> Yeah, that'd do it, but I'd rather just leave one up and have it use
> the same one all the time.  No need to ENCOURAGE mozilla to leak
> memory...  ;-)

Can't you specify a target window name for the new link to open in? I
know that when you're writing HTML, you can do something like:



and if you put TARGET="windowname" for all your links, the links will
always open in the same window. Perhaps you can specify a TARGET from
the Mozilla command line?

Re: evolution

[Will Yardley]

David Rock wrote:
> 
> understand, Evolution has an Exchange connector piece that you can
> purchase, but I really want nothing to do with Evolution if I can help
> it (although *anything* is better than Lookout).

one interesting thing is that evolution DOES use PGP/Mime for
encryption... while it looks like it has fairly simple PGP / GnuPG
support, it's good that they're not following outlook's brain damage to
an extreme.

that said i have a co-worker who uses it, and i wasn't super impressed
when i tried it.

w

Re: How to display accented characters in mutt 1.3.25?

[Gerhard Häring]

Le 07/01/02 ? 22:57, Walt Mankowski écrivit:
> I recently tried out mutt 1.3.25.  This is my first look at the 1.3.*
> series of mutt.  One thing I noticed right away is that mutt is no
> longer display accented characters correctly.  On the index screen
> they appear as question marks.  When viewing the text of an email,
> they appear as octal with a "/" in front of them.
> 
> There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the font I'm using,
> because if I fall back to 1.2.5.1 everything looks fine.
> 
> Any idea what I need to tweak?

In my experience an appropriate locale must be set or else the characters are
considered "non-printable".

Here's the relavant part from my bash .profile file:

export LANG=en_IE@euro
export LC_ALL=en_IE@euro
export LANGUAGE=en_IE@euro
export LC_CTYPE=en_IE@euro

Normally my locale would be de_DE, but I don't like German messages in mutt and
other programs. en_IE was the only possibility to get the Euro sign in my
locale :-) Finally some advantage in having Irland in the EU ;-)

Gerhard
-- 
mail:   gerhard  bigfoot  de   registered Linux user #64239
web:http://www.cs.fhm.edu/~ifw00065/public key at homepage
public key fingerprint: DEC1 1D02 5743 1159 CD20  A4B6 7B22 6575 86AB 43C0
reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda x:chr(ord(x)^42),tuple('zS^BED\nX_FOY\x0b')))

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Gary Johnson]

On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 12:15:57AM +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 10:16:58 -0800, Gary Johnson wrote:
> > Why not just 'unset pgp_verify_sig'?  That's what I do.
> 
> But is there an option to ask Mutt not to display garbage like
> 
> [-- La sortie PGP suit (heure courante : Tue Jan  8 00:13:02 2002) --]
> gpg: Avertissement: l'utilisation de la mémoire n'est pas sûre !
> gpg: Signature faite Mon Jan  7 20:14:36 2002 CET avec une clé DSA ID F009764F
> gpg: Impossible de vérifier la signature: clé publique non trouvée
> [-- Fin de sortie PGP --]
> 
> [-- Les données suivantes sont signées --]
> 
> and
> 
> [-- Fin des données signées --]
> 
> ?

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 05:56:53PM -0600, Jeremy Blosser wrote:
> On Jan 08, Vincent Lefevre [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 17:39:17 -0600, Jeremy Blosser wrote:
> > > Regardless, if you turned off pgp_verify_sig, you would not see the
> > > "garbage" above, just the "s" in the index.
> > 
> > But I still see some lines because of the attachment. I would like
> > to see nothing.
> 
> Yeah... to my knowledge there is no way to hide the fact that the message
> does have attachments.  I guess with my color choices I don't even really
> see those attachments lines anymore, except to subconsciously note they are
> there.  Without the colors it would probably get pretty annoying to have to
> skim over that all the time.
> 
> I *think* Mutt hides the fact a message with text/plain and text/html
> versions of the message has the text/html part, so maybe there is some back
> end there if any one wanted to hack this?

There is no built-in way to hide the "[-- ... --]" stuff, but I got
tired of looking at it, especially surrounding the frequent HTML
messages I receive and around people's PGP signatures, so I added this
to my folder-hooks for mailing lists:

folder-hook +Incoming/. 'set display_filter="sed '\''/^\\[-- .* --]$/d'\''"'

and similar, but more selective, sed rules in the display_filter scripts
for other mailboxes.

Gary

-- 
Gary Johnson   | Agilent Technologies
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   | Spokane, Washington, USA
http://www.spocom.com/users/gjohnson/mutt/ |

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Ben Reser]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 07:17:06PM -0500, Derek D. Martin wrote:
> Perhaps, but unless I misunderstand how mutt verifies the signature,
> even that isn't an indication that the mail was signed by the person
> the e-mail claims to be from.  AFAIU, it is only an indication that
> the signature was verified as being made by a key that's in your
> keyring.  Only the gpg/PGP output will identify who actually signed
> the mail.  Is that not so?  

Or if it can find the matching key on the keyservers.

> If so, then if you had my key, and I knew you had someone else's key,
> and I knew that you depended only on checking the s or S, I could
> easily forge mail as the other person, and you'd think that it was
> signed by them, when in fact it was signed by me.

No not if you wanted people to non-obviously think it was sent by them.
You see your email is the perfect example.  Mutt did not show it as
authenticated.  Even though GPG did.  Why?  Because your key didn't
match the email address you sent it from.

From: "Derek D. Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: signed emails, why ?
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 19:17:06 -0500
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22.1i

[-- PGP output follows (current time: Mon 07 Jan 2002
09:30:52 PM PST) --]
gpg: Signature made Mon 07 Jan 2002 04:17:06 PM PST using DSA key ID
81CFE75D
gpg: Good signature from "Derek Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
gpg: aka "Derek Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
gpg: aka "Derek Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
gpg: key 54C0D38D: secret key without public key - skipped
gpg: key B8AA3B99: secret key without public key - skipped
gpg: key 24E92061: secret key without public key - skipped
gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
gpg:  There is no indication that the signature belongs to the
owner.
gpg: Fingerprint: 3A6F E9A6 B62D 6B47 DC49  6B6D 7637 6542 81CF E75D

[-- End of PGP output --]

  37  sL Jan 07 Derek D. Martin (1.9K) x x mq>
  ^^
Note the small s.

-- 
Ben Reser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://ben.reser.org

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live in such times. But
that is not for them to decide.  All we have to decide is what to do
with the time that is given us."

Re: evolution

[David Rock]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 11:31:35AM -0500, Michael P. Soulier wrote:
> 
> Hey people. 
> 
> I just wanted to share a sentiment. At work I'm playing with Evolution
> because of all of these nuts around me obsessed with M$
> Lookout!. IMHO, Evolution 1.0 is not "evolution" at all, it's more
> like a step backwards. I _greatly_ prefer my Mutt + Exim + Procmail +
> Fetchmail setup to this lousy client that tries to be everything I
> need and does it horribly. 
> 
> Kudos on Mutt. Long live software that doesn't suck. 

On this line, has anyone seen a calendaring piece that will allow you to
respond to appointment requests from m$ exchange? From what I
understand, Evolution has an Exchange connector piece that you can
purchase, but I really want nothing to do with Evolution if I can help
it (although *anything* is better than Lookout).

-- 
David Rock
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



msg22554/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

How to display accented characters in mutt 1.3.25?

[Walt Mankowski]

I recently tried out mutt 1.3.25.  This is my first look at the 1.3.*
series of mutt.  One thing I noticed right away is that mutt is no
longer display accented characters correctly.  On the index screen
they appear as question marks.  When viewing the text of an email,
they appear as octal with a "/" in front of them.

There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the font I'm using,
because if I fall back to 1.2.5.1 everything looks fine.

Any idea what I need to tweak?

Walt




msg22553/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: evolution

[Michael P. Soulier]

On 07/01/02 Nick Wilson did speaketh:

> * Michael P. Soulier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [020107 17:44]:
> 
> Sheesh I just came from kmail!
> Like most things Unix-ish there's a fair old learning curve, but sooo
> worth it!

Yup. Most things worth anything are worth learning. 

Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, GnuPG pub key: 5BC8BE08
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to Unix



msg22552/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Can't send mail from my profile

[Knute]

Ok,  I've been fighting this for awhile now and I'm getting
tired of it.

It was actually the reason that I joined his list anyway.
8o)

I can't send mail from mutt on my computer, and I'm not
sure why.

I know that my config files are ok, cause I can send mail
from mutt from my son's login, using my config files!

When I try to send mail, it comes up with the To:
I put that in, then the Subject: comes up, and when I put
something in there and hit enter,  it just stays there.
Any ideas?

=
Knute   8~)

+-+
| You live.  You die.  Enjoy the interval.|
|   -- Swiftey (Clarence) |
+-+

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Vincent Lefevre]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 21:04:10 -0500, mike ledoux wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 12:27:29AM +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > Me too. Now, this isn't a problem for me as using the editor (emacs
> > in my case) to do that is a better solution since I can unstrip the
> > signature (with Ctrl-_ in my case) if need be.
> 
> I disagree.  Using the editor to do this is the *wrong* solution, since
> it requires my editor to know it is editing mail.  I maintain that my
> editor shouldn't need to know that--text is text.

What I want to say is that both the mailer and the editor should
have an option to strip the signature. But when one has the choice,
choosing the editor to do the job is a better solution.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Web:  - 100%
validated HTML - Acorn Risc PC, Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International des
Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At some point hitherto, mike ledoux hath spake thusly:
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 07:53:52PM -0500, Derek D. Martin wrote:
> > Thanks to everyone who have responded with helpful hints.  For those
> > keeping score:
> > 
> > >  - HTML mail
> [...]
> > Mike L, if you have tricks for figuring out WHICH mozilla window the
> > page will pop up in, I'd like to see that.  
> 
> I prefer to have it open a new window for each link, so I use:
> 
>   mozilla -remote openurl\("$1",new-window\) > /dev/null 2>&1 &

Yeah, that'd do it, but I'd rather just leave one up and have it use
the same one all the time.  No need to ENCOURAGE mozilla to leak
memory...  ;-)

> 
> > And BTW, if you mistype your passphrase (assuming you're signing, as
> > well as encrypting), the aggravation is doubled every time you miss
> > it.  ;-)
> 
> Yes, and with Mutt 1.2.5 and GPG 1.0.6, Mutt is smart enough to know that
> the signing failed, but not smart enough to not cache the bad passphrase
> (this applies on decrypt as well).  This is *very* frustrating.

Yeah, that sucks too.  Though I haven't looked at the code much (being
not really a programmer), it strikes me that ought to be something
that's fairly easy to fix.  Maybe I'll look at it, if no one else
bothers...

> > Mutt sucks much less (for me) today!  =8^)  I'd still really really
> > like to see the pgp key selection stuff cleaned up, and I'd also
> > really rather not have to hit P to have a traditional PGP message
> > work.
> 
> If you want it, I'll give you a copy of my patch.  I've been using it
> for a couple of months since the last change I made and haven't had
> any problems so far.

Well, the question is, will it apply against 1.3.2x?  I began to have
some real problems using 1.2.5i with IMAP, which switching to 1.3
fixed.  Don't remember what they were though.  I'll shortly be
upgrading to the latest, in order to lose the security hole that's in
both mutt <= 1.2.5i and mutt <= 1.3.24(?).

- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8OlJndjdlQoHP510RAldLAJ9pAk6q24QbBMlxP3KPKFF6cfqYyQCfd46w
Db2BU7uiRIpk4+pfhuW1rQk=
=2m7L
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Cross folder macro

[David Champion]

On 2002.01.07, in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Michael Montagne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a macro that deletes older messages in the current folder.
> macro index  T"~d>2w !~F"D"~T"
> Does anyone have any idea how I might apply this to all my folders with
> one blazingly fast keystroke?

I usually do things like this:

cd $HOME/Mail
for folder in *; do
mutt -f "=$folder" -e "push '~d >2s 
!~F~Ty'"
done

YMMV, depending on the settings of certain variables. Best to try it out
on a single folder first.

Since you already have it bound to a keystroke, you could probably
shorten it a lot. :)

-- 
 -D.[EMAIL PROTECTED]NSITUniversity of Chicago

Re: A warning about mbox-hooks

[Ben Logan]

Thanks.  I checked my home dir, but they weren't there.  I did finally
find them in ~/Mail (I use ~/mail).  I used an '=' in front of the
mailbox names, but it was before the 'set folder="~/mail"' directive,
so perhaps that's why it didn't take.

Anyway, I apologize to the list for my previous message, as it is
clearly erroneous.  I should cool down before I go spouting off.  ;^)

Thanks,
Ben

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 04:17:50PM -0800, Knute wrote:
> Actually,  I tried the mbox-hook,  cause I wanted to
> compress the read messages in certain folders to one with
> the same name except have the .gz extension.
> 
> Well,  my messages didn't show up in my ~/Mail folder.
> As it was a compressed file it was easy to find.
> Basically it defaulted to saving it in my /home directory.
> The way that I fixed it was to do this:
>  mbox-hook mbox ~/Mail/mbox-read.gz
> 
> It then saved it in my Mail file without any problem.
> Your messages are most likely in your home directory in the
> file python-list-save.  8o)

-- 
Ben Logan: ben at wblogan dot net
OpenPGP Key KeyID: A1ADD1F0

Nice guys finish last, but we get to sleep in.
-- Evan Davis

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At some point hitherto, Will Yardley hath spake thusly:
> Derek D. Martin wrote:
> > 
> > Mutt sucks much less (for me) today!  =8^)  I'd still really really
> > like to see the pgp key selection stuff cleaned up, and I'd also
> > really rather not have to hit P to have a traditional PGP message
> > work.
> 
> do you use procmail?

Yes.

> 
> i use this to accomplish that (i know you or someone mentioned problems
> with this; i personally haven't encountered any)

Yes, I've used this.  It doesn't always work.  I don't recall what the
problem was though.  I don't run into it often enough to have it fresh
in my mind, but I did run into it often enough for it to be painful.

- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8OkfPdjdlQoHP510RAn+WAJ98yB9jpvbjV2DFnaNOUVhKWYM3egCfeKhd
AuhYPuBip6zzyYWw+IRSK+M=
=Nakl
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Cross folder macro

[Michael Montagne]

I have a macro that deletes older messages in the current folder.
macro index  T"~d>2w !~F"D"~T"
Does anyone have any idea how I might apply this to all my folders with
one blazingly fast keystroke?


-- 
Michael Montagne
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.boora.com

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Will Yardley]

Derek D. Martin wrote:
> 
> Mutt sucks much less (for me) today!  =8^)  I'd still really really
> like to see the pgp key selection stuff cleaned up, and I'd also
> really rather not have to hit P to have a traditional PGP message
> work.

do you use procmail?

i use this to accomplish that (i know you or someone mentioned problems
with this; i personally haven't encountered any)

# autoview clearsigned PGP in mutt
:0
* !^Content-Type: message/
* !^Content-Type: multipart/
* !^Content-Type: application/pgp
{
:0 fBw
* ^-BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-
* ^-END PGP MESSAGE-
| formail \
-i "Content-Type: application/pgp; format=text;
x-action=encrypt"

:0 fBw
* ^-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
* ^-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
* ^-END PGP SIGNATURE-
| formail \
-i "Content-Type: application/pgp; format=text; x-action=sign"
}

i use Maildir; if you use mbox you'd probably need to add some
lockfiles.

w

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Thanks to everyone who have responded with helpful hints.  For those
keeping score:

At some point hitherto, Derek D. Martin hath spake thusly:
>  - forwarded messages not included in quoting

The mentioned variables seem to have solved this one.

>  - sigs not included in quoting

This turned out to be my custom emacs mode (post) which strips out the
signatures.  Turning this feature on or off is fairly easy from within
emacs, so that's cool.

>  - HTML mail

I still don't really like it, but it's a lot better than it was.  I've
got it working so it displays the text with lynx, and if I view the
html parts it pops up in a remote mozilla window.  This makes my life
a LOT easier than it was, but it still would be better if mutt had
better internal HTML handling.  But I like having the ability to
display it both in the e-mail pager, and to have it conveniently pop
up in a browser window.  That's cool.

Mike L, if you have tricks for figuring out WHICH mozilla window the
page will pop up in, I'd like to see that.  

>  - encrypting attachments

I seem to have been confused about what my problem actually was, but
the next time I run into it, I'll be sure to ask.  ;-)

>  - pgp userid identification
> 
> Despite the fact that I've composed an e-mail to a person whose e-mail
> address matches exactly one of the userid's in my gpg key ring, and
> despite the fact that gpg will select the correct key every time when
> invoked seperately on the command line, mutt insists on prompting me
> to choose between several keys with somewhat similar e-mail addresses
> attached to them. 

No one's addressed this so I'll assume there's currently no way to fix
it.  If this is intentional behavior,  I'm very curious as to the
rational.  It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  I consider this broken.

And BTW, if you mistype your passphrase (assuming you're signing, as
well as encrypting), the aggravation is doubled every time you miss
it.  ;-)

>  - pgp hooks
> 
> attempted to solve the above problem by using a pgp hook to associate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a particular key id.  Now, instead of
> prompting me to choose between keys, mutt prompts me TWICE to see if I
> really, really want to use that key.

Same as above for this one.


>  - clearsigned and/or ascii-armored messages

At least as far as my (very) limited test goes, P does seem to
deal with this acceptably.

> With these problems, IMO mutt does not suck less than other mailers;
> it just sucks differently.  If they were fixed, IMO, it really would
> suck a lot less.

Mutt sucks much less (for me) today!  =8^)  I'd still really really
like to see the pgp key selection stuff cleaned up, and I'd also
really rather not have to hit P to have a traditional PGP message
work.

Thanks again.

- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8OkMgdjdlQoHP510RAthiAKC6nD0K2ai9m2vSW6vE9Jht9nkB7wCgs1Iy
xhmBY42VtMCldEmTp2kqsrA=
=fqi+
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Vincent Lefevre]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 18:31:13 -0500, Derek D. Martin wrote:
> Perhaps, but it's not enough to tell you if the message was signed by
> the person it clamed to be signed by.

Anyway, I never verify signatures, as I don't need to (at least for
the moment).

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Web:  - 100%
validated HTML - Acorn Risc PC, Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International des
Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Jeremy Blosser]

On Jan 07, Justin R. Miller [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> Thus spake Derek D. Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> 
> > > The "s" in the index is sufficient for me if I want to know if a
> > > message is signed.
> > 
> > Perhaps, but it's not enough to tell you if the message was signed by
> > the person it clamed to be signed by.  
> 
> It changes from 's' to 'S' upon verification. 

Actually I just noticed, playing around with the new
check-for-traditional-pgp command and Derek's old-stlye messages... if you
run that command on a message, the 's' switches to 'S', even though AFAICT
no verification has been done (the message itself doesn't change to show
gpg output/status, and when I forced a verification to test it, the output
I got showed the 'fetching key from keyserver...' line, indicating it
didn't have it from the previous action).

Am I missing something or is this a bug?



msg22541/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At some point hitherto, Justin R. Miller hath spake thusly:
> Thus spake Derek D. Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> 
> > > The "s" in the index is sufficient for me if I want to know if a
> > > message is signed.
> > 
> > Perhaps, but it's not enough to tell you if the message was signed by
> > the person it clamed to be signed by.  
> 
> It changes from 's' to 'S' upon verification. 

Perhaps, but unless I misunderstand how mutt verifies the signature,
even that isn't an indication that the mail was signed by the person
the e-mail claims to be from.  AFAIU, it is only an indication that
the signature was verified as being made by a key that's in your
keyring.  Only the gpg/PGP output will identify who actually signed
the mail.  Is that not so?  

If so, then if you had my key, and I knew you had someone else's key,
and I knew that you depended only on checking the s or S, I could
easily forge mail as the other person, and you'd think that it was
signed by them, when in fact it was signed by me.

I can guarantee you that, if that were the case (more specifically
that if the message showed as S without any indication that it was
signed by the person mentioned in the From: header), you'd be seeing a
posting about it on bugtraq.  I'd probably post it myself...

Remember, the point of signing a message is to prove, as conclusively
as possible, that the e-mail originated from whence it claimed to have
originated.

- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8OjqCdjdlQoHP510RAjupAJ42Fs7+1xHVL2LD0S72uBZQ4GDZugCfdurk
LJwpgkb+qXl/uvsne1QBhpE=
=RPrq
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: A warning about mbox-hooks

[Knute]

Actually,  I tried the mbox-hook,  cause I wanted to
compress the read messages in certain folders to one with
the same name except have the .gz extension.

Well,  my messages didn't show up in my ~/Mail folder.
As it was a compressed file it was easy to find.
Basically it defaulted to saving it in my /home directory.
The way that I fixed it was to do this:
 mbox-hook mbox ~/Mail/mbox-read.gz

It then saved it in my Mail file without any problem.
Your messages are most likely in your home directory in the
file python-list-save.  8o)


--- Ben Logan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry if this is pointed out in the manual...I missed it.
> 
> For those who might not think about it (like me), do NOT
> save your
> messages (using an mbox-hook) to a mailbox which matches
> the regular
> expression used in the same hook.  For example:
> 
> mbox-hook python-list python-list-save
> 
> This will delete all the messages you think you are
> saving.  At least
> it wiped out several hundred saved messages for me. :(
> 
> It might work to do
> 
> mbox-hook ^python-list$ python-list-save
> 
> but I haven't tried it.
> 
> Regards,
> Ben
> 
> -- 
> Ben Logan: ben at wblogan dot net
> OpenPGP Key KeyID: A1ADD1F0


=
Knute   8~)

+-+
| You live.  You die.  Enjoy the interval.|
|   -- Swiftey (Clarence) |
+-+

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/

A warning about mbox-hooks

[Ben Logan]

Sorry if this is pointed out in the manual...I missed it.

For those who might not think about it (like me), do NOT save your
messages (using an mbox-hook) to a mailbox which matches the regular
expression used in the same hook.  For example:

mbox-hook python-list python-list-save

This will delete all the messages you think you are saving.  At least
it wiped out several hundred saved messages for me. :(

It might work to do

mbox-hook ^python-list$ python-list-save

but I haven't tried it.

Regards,
Ben

-- 
Ben Logan: ben at wblogan dot net
OpenPGP Key KeyID: A1ADD1F0

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Samuel Padgett]

Derek D. Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Well, that command didn't do much useful for me,

Did you try running it after loading post-mode?

> To turn it OFF, one would stick this in the appropriate place in
> their .emacs file:
> 
>   '(post-kill-quoted-sig nil)

That line alone does not do anything useful (and looks
suspiciously like it's part of a larger `custom-set-variables'
declaration).  Maybe you mean

(setq post-kill-quoted-sig nil)

> Easier still (at least if you have xemacs) to go to the
> customize menu, and set it there

This will of course work ;-)

Sam

Re: handling signed mails (Was: signed emails, why ?)

[Jeremy Blosser]

On Jan 08, Vincent Lefevre [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 17:39:17 -0600, Jeremy Blosser wrote:
> > Regardless, if you turned off pgp_verify_sig, you would not see the
> > "garbage" above, just the "s" in the index.
> 
> But I still see some lines because of the attachment. I would like
> to see nothing.

Yeah... to my knowledge there is no way to hide the fact that the message
does have attachments.  I guess with my color choices I don't even really
see those attachments lines anymore, except to subconsciously note they are
there.  Without the colors it would probably get pretty annoying to have to
skim over that all the time.

I *think* Mutt hides the fact a message with text/plain and text/html
versions of the message has the text/html part, so maybe there is some back
end there if any one wanted to hack this?




msg22536/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Justin R. Miller]

Thus spake Derek D. Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> > The "s" in the index is sufficient for me if I want to know if a
> > message is signed.
> 
> Perhaps, but it's not enough to tell you if the message was signed by
> the person it clamed to be signed by.  

It changes from 's' to 'S' upon verification. 

-- 
Justin R. Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
View my website at http://codesorcery.net
Please encrypt email using key 0xC9C40C31



msg22535/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: handling signed mails (Was: signed emails, why ?)

[Vincent Lefevre]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 17:39:17 -0600, Jeremy Blosser wrote:
> Regardless, if you turned off pgp_verify_sig, you would not see the
> "garbage" above, just the "s" in the index.

But I still see some lines because of the attachment. I would like
to see nothing.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Web:  - 100%
validated HTML - Acorn Risc PC, Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International des
Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At some point hitherto, Vincent Lefevre hath spake thusly:
> 
> The "s" in the index is sufficient for me if I want to know if a
> message is signed.

Perhaps, but it's not enough to tell you if the message was signed by
the person it clamed to be signed by.  For people like me, who use GPG
a lot when communicating with friends and colleagues,
auto-verification is nice.  But I'd agree that, for those who don't
care about gpg, or only care about a small percentage of e-mail or
signatures, it'd be nice to have a way to turn that off.  :)

- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8Oi/BdjdlQoHP510RAjhIAJ0WCOv5VMrSwCAh+l9rEcARVnX0qQCgmYQQ
dlWTq7bjQxk+SkkyIcQYzcE=
=oyIA
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

handling signed mails (Was: signed emails, why ?)

[Jeremy Blosser]

On Jan 08, Vincent Lefevre [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 10:16:58 -0800, Gary Johnson wrote:
> > Why not just 'unset pgp_verify_sig'?  That's what I do.
> 
> But is there an option to ask Mutt not to display garbage like
> 
> [-- La sortie PGP suit (heure courante : Tue Jan  8 00:13:02 2002) --]
> gpg: Avertissement: l'utilisation de la m?moire n'est pas s?re !
> gpg: Signature faite Mon Jan  7 20:14:36 2002 CET avec une cl? DSA ID F009764F
> gpg: Impossible de v?rifier la signature: cl? publique non trouv?e
> [-- Fin de sortie PGP --]
> 
> [-- Les donn?es suivantes sont sign?es --]
> 
> and
> 
> [-- Fin des donn?es sign?es --]
> 
> ?
> 
> The "s" in the index is sufficient for me if I want to know if a
> message is signed.

I do believe there are some patches out there to limit what is shown; I'm
not sure what exactly they do.

Regardless, if you turned off pgp_verify_sig, you would not see the
"garbage" above, just the "s" in the index.

I've actually just been working on some macros to handle this for myself
the last day or two.  I 100% believe that all mails should be signed
whenever possible to establish what "normal" behaviour is, etc., but that
doesn't mean to me that all those sigs need to be verified as they come in.
If I need to verify something, I can just verify that one thing, and
hopefully I have a history of mails from that person available (either
locally or in list archives) that has left a trail of signatures I can look
into if I need to.  Anyway, this is what I have right now:

--
message-hook . 'set pgp_verify_sig=no'
message-hook '~g ~P' 'set pgp_verify_sig=yes'

macro index \Cv "unhook message-hookset 
pgp_verify_sig=yesset 
pgp_verify_sig=nomessage-hook . 'set 
pgp_verify_sig=no'message-hook '~g ~P' 'set 
pgp_verify_sig=yes'" "verify message signature"

macro pager \Cv "unhook message-hookset 
pgp_verify_sig=yesset 
pgp_verify_sig=nomessage-hook . 'set 
pgp_verify_sig=no'message-hook '~g ~P' 'set 
pgp_verify_sig=yes'" "verify message signature"
--

I don't think I'm done with it yet, but the idea is:

- normally, don't verify any sigs (this just leaves the "s" in the index)
- use message-hook to always verify my own sigs (I may as well know
  immediately if something is botching those up on the wire)*
- set up a macro ^v in the index and pager to verify the sig for any given
  message as needed

It does the job, but it seems rather unnecessarily kludgey, especially the
redefining the message-hooks all the time.  But I appear to need that,
since right now I don't see any other way to make the default no-verify
message-hook not be active while the macro is running.  The good news is
I'm not really doing it "all the time", since firing those macros should be
a rare occurance.

Anyone have any ideas on this?  This one will completely stop working if I
need to add any other message-hooks, since unhook apparently is (more or
less) all or none.  Having a verify-sig function that operated
independently of pgp_verify_sig and that could just be bound would be
ideal, but I don't think there is one currently.

* (for those too lazy^H^H^H^Hbusy to check TFM, ~g matches messages with
  signatures, and ~P consults $alternates to match messages from the mutt
  user)



msg22532/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Vincent Lefevre]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 14:40:36 -0500, mike ledoux wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 01:40:30PM -0500, Derek D. Martin wrote:
> > Occasionally, you run across a sig that's just damn cool, or otherwise
> > warrants comment.  I can find no way to make mutt include the sig in
> > e-mail, temporarily or otherwise.  I'm certain that Pine has a handy
> > option for this.
> 
> Huh.  One of my complaints about Mutt (I'm still running 1.2.5, I won't
> trust my mail to software that the developers don't consider stable)
> is that it *insists* on quoting the .sig every time.  I wasn't able to
> make Mutt stop doing this, so I finally configured my editor to strip
> everything after '\n-- \n'.

Me too. Now, this isn't a problem for me as using the editor (emacs
in my case) to do that is a better solution since I can unstrip the
signature (with Ctrl-_ in my case) if need be.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Web:  - 100%
validated HTML - Acorn Risc PC, Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International des
Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At some point hitherto, Samuel Padgett hath spake thusly:
> Derek D. Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Hmmm...  well, whenever I reply to a message, everything after
> > sigdashes is stripped from the message.  It's possible that my editor
> > is doing this (I use post-mode for emacs), and I'll look into that.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that post-mode does this.  You might want to try
> a command like

Well, that command didn't do much useful for me, but I was able to
determine the variable to change this behavior.  To turn it OFF, one
would stick this in the appropriate place in their .emacs file:

  '(post-kill-quoted-sig nil)

Easier still (at least if you have xemacs) to go to the customize
menu, and set it there (customize/emacs/applications/mail/post gets
you the menu for post mode).



- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8OiuhdjdlQoHP510RAjQsAJ9IHA5li1uun5ouXPLSDGc2vCV7OgCgkaFl
/DSy9mhv3bwXHidY13hfRX4=
=9rNm
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Vincent Lefevre]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 10:16:58 -0800, Gary Johnson wrote:
> Why not just 'unset pgp_verify_sig'?  That's what I do.

But is there an option to ask Mutt not to display garbage like

[-- La sortie PGP suit (heure courante : Tue Jan  8 00:13:02 2002) --]
gpg: Avertissement: l'utilisation de la mémoire n'est pas sûre !
gpg: Signature faite Mon Jan  7 20:14:36 2002 CET avec une clé DSA ID F009764F
gpg: Impossible de vérifier la signature: clé publique non trouvée
[-- Fin de sortie PGP --]

[-- Les données suivantes sont signées --]

and

[-- Fin des données signées --]

?

The "s" in the index is sufficient for me if I want to know if a
message is signed.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Web:  - 100%
validated HTML - Acorn Risc PC, Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International des
Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA

Re: Bold text

[Samuel Padgett]

Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I use vim as my editor and can't work out how to make portions of my
> text bold? I know many of you use vim so I hope someone can help.

Some MUAs will display "a^Ha" (aa) as a bold "a".  Is this what
you mean?

Sam

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Samuel Padgett]

Derek D. Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hmmm...  well, whenever I reply to a message, everything after
> sigdashes is stripped from the message.  It's possible that my editor
> is doing this (I use post-mode for emacs), and I'll look into that.

I'm pretty sure that post-mode does this.  You might want to try
a command like

M-x apropos-variable RET post.*sig RET

or somesuch to see what variable enables the behavior.

Sam

Good HTML to text converter?

[Philip Mak]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 08:50:16PM +0100, Michael Wagner wrote:
> I have this in my mailcap file:
> 
> text/html; html2text %s; copiousoutput; nametemplate=%s.html
> 
> because the output is much better than this lynx or w3m. Try it.

The problem that I see with lynx, w3m and links is that the -dump
output they produce is not so suited for plain text reading. For one
thing, all normal ... paragraph text is indented several
spaces. If you are looking at an HTML message that uses tables to
format things (rather than using tables to tabulate data), you DON'T
want table support when it gets converted to text.

What is this "html2text" program that you are using?

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[René Clerc]

* Derek D. Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [07-01-2002 20:59]:

| > text/html; /usr/bin/lynx -force_html %s; needsterminal
| > text/html; /usr/bin/lynx -dump -force_html %s; copiousoutput
| > 
| > When I get HTML mail it automatically gets passed through lynx and
| > displayed in Mutt's pager.  When I reply, the output of lynx is quoted
| > in my reply.  The 'needsterminal' entry allows me to explicitly view
| > HTML mail in lynx, which I sometimes want to do.
| 
| The need to do that never occured to me...  How do you choose between
| them?

When the message is displayed (and, of course, you have
"auto_view text/html" set, mutt pages the output of the dump version.

When you visit the text/html thing of the message using 'v'iew-attach,
it fires up an instance of lynx, and enables you to browse the
message, and, of course, follow external hyperlinks.

-- 
René Clerc  - ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

Hear about...
the fellow who got ten years for pumping Ethyl behind the station?



msg22525/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: recipient as default subject

[Jeremy Blosser]

On Jan 07, David T-G [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> It appears that the recipient is now (1.3.25) provided as the default
> subject.  At least, as far as I can tell it is, and I even went back
> to my completely-bare unpatched version to make sure.  [From either
> within mutt or the command line, when I start a new message to ,
> the subject prompt comes up and is pre-filled with .]
> 
> I checked through the FM but couldn't find anything that looked like it
> related to such behavior...  What gives?

FWIW I don't see this behaviour at all using 1.3.25.  And I know there's
nothing like this in the standard options because I just went through all
of them again this weekend.  Sounds like it's something non-standard going
on.



msg22524/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

recipient as default subject

[David T-G]

Hi, all --

It appears that the recipient is now (1.3.25) provided as the default
subject.  At least, as far as I can tell it is, and I even went back
to my completely-bare unpatched version to make sure.  [From either
within mutt or the command line, when I start a new message to ,
the subject prompt comes up and is pre-filled with .]

I checked through the FM but couldn't find anything that looked like it
related to such behavior...  What gives?


TIA & HAND

:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




msg22523/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Justin R. Miller]

Thus spake Volker Moell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> Months ago there was a thread how to do this automatically.  But at
> that time all tries didn't work; AFAIR there was a conceptual problem
> (endless loops or so, I don't know exactly any more).  Well, to read
> one single mail I can hit Esc-P, but when searching in a complete
> folder in the message bodies this leads to a problem.
> 
> Has anyone developed a working muttrc line concerning this problem ?
> Or is there a corresponding mutt variable in the meantime, I overlook?

Yeah, I brought that up.  Never did figure out a good way to do it
without the loops...

-- 
Justin R. Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
View my website at http://codesorcery.net
Please encrypt email using key 0xC9C40C31



msg22522/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Problem with mbox-hook

[Ben Logan]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 09:04:29PM +0100, Michael Tatge wrote:
> Ben Logan muttered:
> > I've been using Mutt for some time now (and really like it).
> 
> Welcome. :)

Thanks.

> =python-list is no regex. Leave out the "=", then it should work.

Ah, yes.  I tried just python-list first, (and even some things like
^python-list$, etc), but they didn't work.  Then I found that I had 

set move=no

in my muttrc.  So I changed that, and forgot to try without the '='
again.  Duh! :)  I did see an '=' in the sample.rc, though.  Well,
anyway, I took it out, and it works.

Thanks!
Ben

-- 
Ben Logan: ben at wblogan dot net
OpenPGP Key KeyID: A1ADD1F0

Pascal Users:
To show respect for the 313th anniversary (tomorrow) of the
death of Blaise Pascal, your programs will be run at half speed.

Re: messages being sent incorrectly

[David T-G]

Nick --

...and then Nick Wilson said...
% 
% * Justin R. Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [020107 21:36]:
% > Thus spake Nick Wilson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
% > 
% > > the fact that the body of the mail (like this text) was received as an
% > > attatchment that she had to open.
% > > 
% > > That can't be right sure?
% > 
% > That is a result of Outlook not listening to the Content-disposition:
% > inline header.  The compat patch fixes that by changing the Content-type
% > as well. 
% 
% Great!
% Where do I get it?

It's by Shane Wegener, and you can get it from his site at

  ftp://ftp.cm.nu/pub/people/shane

or from my site at

  http://mutt.justpickone.org/

in the build cocktail directory as patch-1.3.15.sw.pgp-outlook.1 (yes,
the .15 version applies cleanly to the .25 source).


% 
% And is there a way to name the sig attachment? It's confusing some
% people and I'd rather they didn't think I was sending them stuff they
% _had_ to open.

If you use both $p_c_t and $p_o_c then LookOut! will be able to handle
it even though it's named something like msg.pgp or whatnot.


% 
% Thanks :)

HTH & HAND


% 
% 
% -- 
% 
% Nick Wilson
% 
% Tel:  +45 3325 0688
% Fax:  +45 3325 0677
% Web:  www.explodingnet.com


:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




msg22520/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Volker Moell]

Lars Hecking wrote:
>  
>  Secondly, mutt also supports checking of traditionally signed email
>  (i.e. without conversion).
> 
> P  check-traditional-pgp  check for classic pgp

Months ago there was a thread how to do this automatically.  But at that
time all tries didn't work; AFAIR there was a conceptual problem
(endless loops or so, I don't know exactly any more).  Well, to read one
single mail I can hit Esc-P, but when searching in a complete folder in
the message bodies this leads to a problem.

Has anyone developed a working muttrc line concerning this problem ? Or
is there a corresponding mutt variable in the meantime, I overlook?

-volker

-- 
  http://die-Moells.de/  *  http://Stama90.de/  *  http://ScriptDale.de/

"Amnesia used to be my favorite word, but then I forgot it."

Re: how make From: header dependent on recipient?

[Aaron Schrab]

At 05:50 + 07 Jan 2002, Tom Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The trouble is that send-hook can only look at the message that's
> about to be sent, not its "parent". After a web trawl, it looks like
> the patch described in the second half of this mail 
>http://www.ultraviolet.org/mail-archives/mutt-users.2001/2406.html
> may be what I'm after. I'll give it a go soon.

It should be possible to do what you seem to want.  But I noticed that
you're still using mutt 1.2.5, if you're planning to stick with that
version, the patch may not work.  Then again it might, since there
weren't too many changes to the relevant parts of code between that and
version 1.3.23.1.

If you were planning to upgrade to a recent development release, there's
an updated version of that patch available from:

  http://schrab.com/aaron/mutt/

-- 
Aaron Schrab [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.execpc.com/~aarons/
 I don't think anything makes my show look good.  -- Jerry Springer



msg22518/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Recovering interrupted compositions?

[David T-G]

Sam --

...and then Samuel Padgett said...
% 
% Ken Weingold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
% 
% > vim -r will give you a list of recoverable temp files.  Rarely fails
% > me.
% 
% Yes, but then how do I actually send the message.  Cut-n-paste
% into a new composition buffer?

Rather than cut-n-paste I would just read in the file; at worst you might
have to vim -r in a separate window, save it somewhere, and then go into
mutt and read it in.  Yes, it's still manual, but it's better than using
a mouse.


% 
% I was hoping Mutt had some facility to notice /tmp/mutt-* files
% that are unsent and allow you to resume composition--something
% like what Gnus does.  If Emacs crashes while you're composing an
% email in Gnus, the message is automatically stored in a "drafts"
% group.  It then only takes a few keystrokes to get back to exactly
% where you were.

The problem, of course, is that the editor is killed (along with mutt)
when your connection is dropped, so mutt wouldn't even have a chance to
take the file that vim was editing (and didn't get to finish, though much
of the data will be in the swap file for recovery) and save the message
in your =Postponed folder for when you came back.

Hmmm...  If you have edit_hdrs turned on, perhaps a vim -r followed by a
session of mutt -f /path/to/that/file would work...  I doubt it, but it's
worth poking into, particularly if you can turn it into an entry in the
postponed box.


% 
% The dropped connections happen often enough for me that
% cut-n-paste becomes a real nuisance.  [ Unfortunately, the real
% problem--the unreliable network connection--is out of my control
% :-( ]

You should try screen, which not only lets you multiplex your connection
but saves your state as well.  I couldn't live without it!


% 
% Thanks,
% Sam


:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




msg22517/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Jim Mock]

On Mon, 07 Jan 2002 at 13:40:30 -0500, Derek D. Martin wrote:
> Here's my current list of gripes:
> 
>  - forwarded messages not included in quoting
> 
> There seems to be no way to make mutt include a forwarded message in
> quoted text.  MUCH more often than not, that's the behavior I want, so
> that I can comment on what the original writer wrote.  Maybe a way
> does exist, since it seems intuitive that people would want to do
> this, but I couldn't find a way.  IIRC, Pine (for example) has a handy
> option for this.

set forward_quote=yes in your .muttrc

>  - sigs not included in quoting
> 
> Occasionally, you run across a sig that's just damn cool, or otherwise
> warrants comment.  I can find no way to make mutt include the sig in
> e-mail, temporarily or otherwise.  I'm certain that Pine has a handy
> option for this.

This is the default.  If you *don't* want the sigs, the easiest way to
not get them is to have your editor strip them at -- .

>  - HTML mail
> 
> I hate HTML mail as much as anyone.  Honestly.  But the fact is, a lot
> of people use it.  And sometimes, important people use it.  Yes, mutt
> does have ways to display these messages, but they are inconvenient at
> best.  And, AFAIK, mutt does not include a means of QUOTING these
> messages, when one must reply to them.  This sucks.  I'll grant you
> that I toss these messages out usually anyway, but I need to have the
> option of dealing with them if I need to.

text/html; w3m -T text/html %s; copiousoutput in your .mailcap

If I reply to an HTML message, mutt quotes it like it does for normal
text messages.

- jim

-- 
jim mock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   http://soupnazi.org/ | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: utf-8 display problem index vs. pager

[Michael Wagner]

On Sonntag, 06. Jan. 2002 at 20:53:24, MuttER wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2001 at 08:30:05PM +0530, Prahlad Vaidyanathan wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > text/html; w3m -T text/html %s
> > 
> > 
> > You could also add a 'copiousoutput' at the end of that, and set
> > auto_view text/html in your muttrc to put w3m's output into your pager.
> > 
> > pv.
> ---end quoted text---
> 
> text/html; w3m -dump -T text/html %s; copiousoutput
> 
> above works well for me (using auto_view)

Hello MuttER,

I have this in my mailcap file:

text/html; html2text %s; copiousoutput; nametemplate=%s.html

because the output is much better than this lynx or w3m. Try it.

CU Michael

-- 
If God had intended Man to Watch TV, He would have given him
Rabbit Ears.



msg22515/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Alexander Skwar]

So sprach »Justin R. Miller« am 2002-01-07 um 12:43:02 -0500 :
> the mail, but other than that I think that you will have to live with
> people signing list mail. 

Sure.  However, now that you seem to have run out of arguments, please
remember how this thread started.  Somebody asked about opions wrt.
signed mails in a mailinglist.  And I simply stated my opinion about it.

Alexander Skwar
-- 
How to quote:   http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english)
Homepage:   http://www.iso-top.de  | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   iso-top.de - Die günstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen
   Uptime: 22 days 5 hours 3 minutes

Re: messages being sent incorrectly

[Nick Wilson]

* Justin R. Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [020107 21:36]:
> Thus spake Nick Wilson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> 
> > Sorry, my post was unclear. I'm not really worried about the sig. It's
> > the fact that the body of the mail (like this text) was received as an
> > attatchment that she had to open.
> > 
> > That can't be right sure?
> 
> That is a result of Outlook not listening to the Content-disposition:
> inline header.  The compat patch fixes that by changing the Content-type
> as well. 

Great!
Where do I get it?

And is there a way to name the sig attachment? It's confusing some
people and I'd rather they didn't think I was sending them stuff they
_had_ to open.

Thanks :)


-- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com






msg22513/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Customizing mutt to work the way you want!

[Philip Mak]

About 2 weeks ago, I took the plunge and switched to mutt as my mail
reader. It took me several hours to read the documentation and
configure mutt so that I could use it adequately. I am sharing the
results of my efforts: My .muttrc and related configuration files,
heavily commented to explain why I setup things the way I did. I've
more-or-less gotten mutt to work how I need it.

Feel free to plug these configuration files into your mutt if you
want; they should pretty much work out of the box.

Read the bottom of .muttvimrc to see the special keybindings that I
setup in vim to make editing mail messages easier.


# Filter uninteresting headers; this way, when I view a message it
# won't show a lot of irrelevant headers
ignore *
unignore from: date subject to cc list-unsubscribe
hdr_order Date: From: To: Cc: Subject:

# View text/html attachments inline with lynx -dump (see also .mailcap)
# If both text/plain and text/html versions of a message are
# available, prefer the text/plain version since it will probably look
# better on a terminal.
auto_view text/html
alternative_order text/plain text/enriched text/html

# CUSTOM KEY BINDINGS

# Perhaps due to using pine, I've gotten it in my head that I should
# always be able to keep pressing "i" to get out of any menu.
bind attach i exit

# Because I can never get the HOME and END keys to work through
# telnet/ssh, I need to make another key to take that function. I
# picked Alt-< and Alt-> since that's similar to emacs.
bind generic < first-entry # like in emacs
bind generic > last-entry

# This makes the  and  keys in the message index NOT skip
# over deleted messages.
bind index  previous-entry
bind index  next-entry

# Because I can't get  and  to work.
bind index  next-page
bind index - previous-page

# Having  and  as pageup/pagedown is counterintuitive and
# confuses me when I accidentally hit them, so I disable them.
bind index  noop
bind index  noop

# Again, to replace  and .
bind pager < top
bind pager > bottom

#  and  will go to the previous/next message by default in
# pager mode. This is counterintuitive.
bind pager  previous-line
bind pager  next-line

# The search-opposite function in the pager is UNBOUND by default! But
# I think this is an important command.
bind pager N search-opposite

# Inspired by vi/less.
bind pager G bottom

# Don't abort composing a message if I give a blank subject
set abort_nosubject=no
# Don't abort composing a message if I give a blank body
set abort_unmodified=no
# Beep upon receiving new mail
set beep_new=yes 
# When saving a message, append the message to an existing mailbox
# without asking (Why should it ask, anyway? Mailboxes generally have
# multiple messages...)
set confirmappend=no
# Allow me to edit the headers of the message I'm sending
set edit_headers=yes
# Use 'vim' as the editor. Load my special .muttvimrc configuration
# file that configures vim just for sending e-mail. +/^$ makes the
# cursor move to after the header initially.
set editor="vim -u ~/.muttvimrc +/^$"
# In the message list, display the number of bytes in a message
# instead of the number of lines. mutt always displays the number of
# lines as "0" in a Maildir folder unless I've preprocessed the
# messages to add a "Lines:" directive, but I didn't want to do that.
set index_format="%4C %Z %{%b %d} %-15.15L (%4c) %s"
# Check for new mail every 5 seconds
set mail_check=5
# In the pager, don't display + at the beginning of wrapped lines;
# it's distracting
set markers=no
# When creating a new folder, default to Maildir format.
set mbox_type=Maildir
# Don't ask me to move messages out of my inbox when I quit.
set move=no
# When going to the next page, keep the bottom two lines of this page
# on top so that I have some context
set pager_context=2
# If I'm at the end of a message and I try to go to the next page,
# don't move me to the next message
set pager_stop=yes
# Put postponed messages in the following folder
set postponed="~/Mail/postponed"
# If I press the Postpone key, ask for confirmation
set postpone=ask-yes
# Don't say "Press any key to continue..." after I finish running an
# external program
set prompt_after=no
# When I quit mutt, ask for confirmation
set quit=ask-yes
# Put sent mail in this folder
set record=./Mail/sent
# Sort messages by the date received. By default, mutt sorts messages
# by the date sent, which is going by the sender's computer clock. But
# some people have their clock off by YEARS which messes up the sort
# order!
set sort=date-received
# When viewing messages by thread, sort a thread using the date of its
# last message, rather than the first message.
set sort_aux=last-date-received
# If I idle in mutt for 10 seconds, then check for new mail. (This is
# 600 by default, which means if I'm not actively using mutt, new mail
# might not show up for as long as 10 minutes.)
set timeout=10
# use date-received to thread messages
set thread_received=yes
# Don't ask me to press a key to continue after I did a she

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Will Yardley]

Derek D. Martin wrote:
> At some point hitherto, mike ledoux hath spake thusly:
> > On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 01:40:30PM -0500, Derek D. Martin wrote:

> > > There seems to be no way to make mutt include a forwarded message
> > > in quoted text.  MUCH more often than not, that's the behavior I
> > > want, so that I can comment on what the original writer wrote.
> > > Maybe a way does exist, since it seems intuitive that people would
> > > want to do this, but I couldn't find a way.  IIRC, Pine (for
> > > example) has a handy option for this.
> > 
> > I'm not sure what you mean.  When I forward a message, it prompts me
> > if I want to 'Forward MIME encapsulated'.  If I answer 'n', the text
> > of the forwarded message appears in my editor.  It isn't quoted, if
> > that's what you mean (it shows up between 'Forwarded message'
> > indicators instead).
> 
> Ok, so I'm beginning to suspect that this, along with my .sig problem,
> may actually be caused by post.el - a mode for emacs to edit mail.
> I'm going to look into this.

you might also look to 'mime_forward' ?? (ie into setting it to 'ask-no'
or 'ask-yes' rather than the default, whish is 'no').

i'm not sure if this is what you were referring to, but i think it's
what mike was talking about.

w

Re: Recovering interrupted compositions?

[Samuel Padgett]

Ken Weingold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> AFAIK, it is up to the editor, not mutt.  When in vim, go to
> ':help recover' and it will tell you what you need to know.  IOW
> you can do it right from within vim.

I guess my point is that there are a lot of manual steps here:
start new composition, use :recover command in Vim, cut and paste
old message into new buffer, etc.  Unless there's an easier way?

Wouldn't it be nice, though, if Mutt could recognize that it was
killed during message composition and allow you to pick up from
where you last saved with a simple command, no fuss and muss?  Or
maybe this isn't quite as easy as I make it out to be?

Sam [who promises to never say "no fuss and muss" again]

Re: messages being sent incorrectly

[Justin R. Miller]

Thus spake Nick Wilson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> Sorry, my post was unclear. I'm not really worried about the sig. It's
> the fact that the body of the mail (like this text) was received as an
> attatchment that she had to open.
> 
> That can't be right sure?

That is a result of Outlook not listening to the Content-disposition:
inline header.  The compat patch fixes that by changing the Content-type
as well. 

-- 
Justin R. Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
View my website at http://codesorcery.net
Please encrypt email using key 0xC9C40C31



msg22509/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Problem with mbox-hook

[Michael Tatge]

Ben Logan muttered:
> I've been using Mutt for some time now (and really like it).

Welcome. :)

> I decided I would try using a few mbox-hook's, and can't seem to get
> any to work. Here are what I think are the relavant lines from my
> .muttrc:
> 
> set folder="~/mail"
> set move=ask-yes
> mbox-hook =python-list =python-list-save
^

Quoting the manual:

Usage: mbox-hook [!]pattern mailbox

pattern is a regular expression specifying the mailbox to treat as a
``spool'' mailbox and mailbox specifies where mail should be saved when
read.

=python-list is no regex. Leave out the "=", then it should work.

HTH,

Michael
-- 
"Oh, I've seen copies [of Linux Journal] around the terminal room at The
Labs."
(By Dennis Ritchie)

PGP-Key: http://www-stud.ims.uni-stuttgart.de/~tatgeml/public.key

Re: Problem with mbox-hook

[Ben Logan]

Forgot to mention the version of Mutt that I'm using (says it in the
headers, but here it is anyway):

1.2.5i

Thanks,
Ben

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 12:42:46PM -0500, Ben Logan wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've been using Mutt for some time now (and really like it).  I
> decided I would try using a few mbox-hook's, and can't seem to get any
> to work.  Here are what I think are the relavant lines from my .muttrc:
> 
> set folder="~/mail"
> set move=ask-yes
> mbox-hook =python-list =python-list-save
> 
> Just as an example.  I use procmail to filter the mail into a folder
> ~/mail/python-list.  I would then like for mutt to send the read
> messages to ~/mail/python-list-save when I leave the box.  But it
> doesn't work. :)
> 
> I've read the docs, sample rc's, and mail list archives...but to no
> avail.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ben
> 
> -- 
> Ben Logan: ben at wblogan dot net
> OpenPGP Key KeyID: A1ADD1F0
> 
> An apple a day makes 365 apples a year.
> 

-- 
Ben Logan: ben at wblogan dot net
OpenPGP Key KeyID: A1ADD1F0

I need another lawyer like I need another hole in my head.
-- Fratianno

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Derek D. Martin]

At some point hitherto, mike ledoux hath spake thusly:
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 01:40:30PM -0500, Derek D. Martin wrote:
> > There seems to be no way to make mutt include a forwarded message in
> > quoted text.  MUCH more often than not, that's the behavior I want, so
> > that I can comment on what the original writer wrote.  Maybe a way
> > does exist, since it seems intuitive that people would want to do
> > this, but I couldn't find a way.  IIRC, Pine (for example) has a handy
> > option for this.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean.  When I forward a message, it prompts me if
> I want to 'Forward MIME encapsulated'.  If I answer 'n', the text of the
> forwarded message appears in my editor.  It isn't quoted, if that's what
> you mean (it shows up between 'Forwarded message' indicators instead).

Ok, so I'm beginning to suspect that this, along with my .sig problem,
may actually be caused by post.el - a mode for emacs to edit mail.
I'm going to look into this.
 

[SNIP]
> text/html; /usr/bin/lynx -force_html %s; needsterminal
> text/html; /usr/bin/lynx -dump -force_html %s; copiousoutput
> 
> When I get HTML mail it automatically gets passed through lynx and
> displayed in Mutt's pager.  When I reply, the output of lynx is quoted
> in my reply.  The 'needsterminal' entry allows me to explicitly view
> HTML mail in lynx, which I sometimes want to do.

The need to do that never occured to me...  How do you choose between
them?


> Pine's internal handling of HTML mail is much better than Mutt's.

Agreed.

> > Often when one sends an encrypted e-mail, one wants to send
> > attachments too.  Sometimes you want the attachment encrypted, and
> > sometimes you don't (or actually, I ALWAYS do, but I can conceive of
> > reasons why one might not, or at least not care).  Mutt seems to do
> > the latter by default, and there doesn't seem to be any way to do the
> > former in mutt, other than to uuencode all the files manually, and
> > paste them into the message that you're typing.  This defeats the
> > whole point of having PGP support, IMO.
> 
> I'm not sure what you're saying here, either. 

Ok, I may be confused about this.  Some of these things were items I'd
jotted down a while back, meaning to ask about them some time ago, so
I'm going from memory.  I don't send encrypted mail with attachments
all that often, so it's been a while since I had to deal with this one
specifically.  Next time I run into whatever this problem was, I'll
ask again.  ;-)


-- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org

Re: messages being sent incorrectly

[Nick Wilson]

* Will Yardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [020107 20:51]:
> Nick Wilson wrote:
> 
> > Actually, two attachments one of which is the pgp sig. What would
> > cause my emails to be sent as attachments rather than inline(if that's
> > the right term)?
> 
> this is mutt's default behavior.  you can do:
> pgp_create_traditional
> 
> but this still sends it as 'application/pgp-signature' (or something
> like that) so you will need the pgp_outlook_compat patch if you want to
> send a plaintext, clearsigned attachment (or else pgp sign a text file
> and then attach that or something).
> 
> better yet... don't pgp sign mails to people unless you specifically
> know that they can deal with it.
> 
> presumably your mum knows you well enough that she'll notice something's
> up if some evil h4x0r takes over your email without having to check your
> pgp signature.

Sorry, my post was unclear. I'm not really worried about the sig. It's
the fact that the body of the mail (like this text) was received as an
attatchment that she had to open.

That can't be right sure?

-- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com






msg22505/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: messages being sent incorrectly

[Will Yardley]

Nick Wilson wrote:

> Actually, two attachments one of which is the pgp sig. What would
> cause my emails to be sent as attachments rather than inline(if that's
> the right term)?

this is mutt's default behavior.  you can do:
pgp_create_traditional

but this still sends it as 'application/pgp-signature' (or something
like that) so you will need the pgp_outlook_compat patch if you want to
send a plaintext, clearsigned attachment (or else pgp sign a text file
and then attach that or something).

better yet... don't pgp sign mails to people unless you specifically
know that they can deal with it.

presumably your mum knows you well enough that she'll notice something's
up if some evil h4x0r takes over your email without having to check your
pgp signature.

w

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

> >There seems to be no way to make mutt include a forwarded message in
> >quoted text.  MUCH more often than not, that's the behavior I want, so
> >that I can comment on what the original writer wrote.  Maybe a way
> >does exist, since it seems intuitive that people would want to do
> >this, but I couldn't find a way.  IIRC, Pine (for example) has a handy
> >option for this.
> 
> The easiest way to do this is, of course, to just use reply. ;-)

Well, yes, except that I sometimes also use forward instead of reply,
so that signatures are not stripped from the message.  And sometimes I
don't want attribution/quote marks.  But often that does work...


> >- sigs not included in quoting
> 
> >Occasionally, you run across a sig that's just damn cool, or otherwise
> >warrants comment.  I can find no way to make mutt include the sig in
> >e-mail, temporarily or otherwise.  I'm certain that Pine has a handy
> >option for this.
> 
> I don't understand your question.  Mutt does not cut off .signatures.

Hmmm...  well, whenever I reply to a message, everything after
sigdashes is stripped from the message.  It's possible that my editor
is doing this (I use post-mode for emacs), and I'll look into that.

Whatever it is, it's pretty inconvenient at times, for example when
signing up for some lists.  The replies sent by some lists include the
authorization info AFTER sigdashes (including the mutt mailing lists)
which then get stripped out upon replying to the mail.  Failing to
notice the sigdashes means I need to quit out of composing the
message, and either use forward or cut and paste the auth command.

Yep, I'm lazy!  ;-)

> >I hate HTML mail as much as anyone.  Honestly.  But the fact is, a 
> >lot of people use it.  And sometimes, important people use it. 
> >Yes, mutt does have ways to display these messages, but they are 
> >inconvenient at best.  And, AFAIK, mutt does not include a means 
> >of QUOTING these messages, when one must reply to them.  This 
> >sucks.  I'll grant you that I toss these messages out usually 
> >anyway, but I need to have the option of dealing with them if I 
> >need to.
> 
> Add this line to your ~/.mailcap:
> 
>   text/html; lynx -underscore -force_html -dump %s; copiousoutput
> 
> And this one to your ~/.muttrc:
> 
>   auto_view text/html
> 
> That should be all that's necessary to automatically display (and 
> include in replies) HTML messages.

K, I'll try this, but I could swear I did this before and had some
sort of problem with it...


> >Whether you guys like it or not, most of the rest of the world 
> >uses clearsigning and ascii-armored plaintext messages.  Mutt 
> >falls down here.

[SNIP more of my ramblings...]

> Try Esc-P when displaying a message.

Ok... I was unfamiliar with this option/feature.  I guess you could
add another gripe: documentation.  The old version is well documented,
but the new one has none, as far as I could tell.  

Thanks

- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8OfdudjdlQoHP510RAiepAJ93EQztxQRRIeUNP49bQhGpAxRQogCgtBbR
YuNtCc9b9FjSPYoFAQFWXbg=
=ZQVL
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

messages being sent incorrectly

[Nick Wilson]

Hi all 
I'm certain this is something I've done but just can't work out what.
I just spoke to my mum who said the email I'd sent had come through as
an attachment as opposed to in the body of the message when she opened
it?

Actually, two attachments one of which is the pgp sig. What would cause
my emails to be sent as attachments rather than inline(if that's the
right term)?

Many thanks
-- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com






msg22502/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Lars Hecking]

 
>  - clearsigned and/or ascii-armored messages
> 
> Whether you guys like it or not, most of the rest of the world uses
> clearsigning and ascii-armored plaintext messages.  Mutt falls down
> here.  You apparently refuse to support this, which makes no sense
> since the majority of the PGP-using world uses this form of message.
[...]

 Not true.

  6.3.121.  pgp_create_traditional

  Type: quadoption
  Default: no

  This option controls whether Mutt generates old-style PGP encrypted or
  signed messages under certain circumstances.

  Note that PGP/MIME will be used automatically for messages which have
  a character set different from us-ascii, or which consist of more than
  a single MIME part.

  Also note that using the old-style PGP message format is strongly
  deprecated.

 (I don't remember when this was introduced, though.)

 Secondly, mutt also supports checking of traditionally signed email
 (i.e. without conversion).

P  check-traditional-pgp  check for classic pgp

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Justin R. Miller]

Thus spake Will Yardley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> that said, it would be cool if there were 'forward_inline' and
> 'forward_quoted' options or something.

See $forward_quote :-)

-- 
Justin R. Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
View my website at http://codesorcery.net
Please encrypt email using key 0xC9C40C31



msg22500/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Recovering interrupted compositions?

[Ken Weingold]

On Mon, Jan  7, 2002, Samuel Padgett wrote:
> > vim -r will give you a list of recoverable temp files.  Rarely fails
> > me.
> 
> Yes, but then how do I actually send the message.  Cut-n-paste
> into a new composition buffer?
> 
> I was hoping Mutt had some facility to notice /tmp/mutt-* files
> that are unsent and allow you to resume composition--something
> like what Gnus does.  If Emacs crashes while you're composing an
> email in Gnus, the message is automatically stored in a "drafts"
> group.  It then only takes a few keystrokes to get back to exactly
> where you were.

AFAIK, it is up to the editor, not mutt.  When in vim, go to 
':help recover' and it will tell you what you need to know.  IOW you
can do it right from within vim.


-Ken

Re: Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Will Yardley]

Derek D. Martin wrote:

> There seems to be no way to make mutt include a forwarded message in
> quoted text.

why not just reply and then change the 'To' header.
you can delete the 'in-reply-to' if you're worried about messing up
headers.

that said, it would be cool if there were 'forward_inline' and
'forward_quoted' options or something.

>  - sigs not included in quoting

i've always seen sigs included in quoting.

for instance, yours is:

 > -
 > I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
 > GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
 > Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
 > Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
 
> I hate HTML mail as much as anyone.  Honestly.  But the fact is, a lot
> of people use it.  And sometimes, important people use it.  Yes, mutt
> does have ways to display these messages, but they are inconvenient at
> best.  And, AFAIK, mutt does not include a means of QUOTING these
> messages, when one must reply to them.  This sucks.

i have no problem quoting them.  i have:

text/html;  w3m -dump %s; nametemplate=%s.html; copiousoutput
in my .mailcap

and:
# view annoying html mail inline
auto_view text/html
# if plain text and html prefer plain text
alternative_order text/plain text/enriched text/html

in my .muttrc

is it really necessary to complain so much?  perhaps it's best to first
nicely ask how to do something. this is more likely to elicit a positive
response.
 
>  - encrypting attachments
> 
> Often when one sends an encrypted e-mail, one wants to send
> attachments too.  Sometimes you want the attachment encrypted, and
> sometimes you don't (or actually, I ALWAYS do, but I can conceive of
> reasons why one might not, or at least not care).  Mutt seems to do
> the latter by default, and there doesn't seem to be any way to do the
> former in mutt, other than to uuencode all the files manually, and
> paste them into the message that you're typing.  This defeats the
> whole point of having PGP support, IMO.

mutt always encrypts attachments i'm 99% sure. 
i'm not sure if there's a way to NOT encrypt / sign attachments of a PGP
signed or encrypted message.

>  - clearsigned and/or ascii-armored messages
> 
> Whether you guys like it or not, most of the rest of the world uses
> clearsigning and ascii-armored plaintext messages.  Mutt falls down
> here.  You apparently refuse to support this, which makes no sense
> since the majority of the PGP-using world uses this form of message.
> This has caused me and a few of my mutt convertees and people we
> converse with no end of headaches.
[snip]
> Also, mutt will only *send* PGP-MIME messages.  However, there are
> only a handful of clients that can properly handle PGP-MIME, while
> virtually all off them (with the exception of mutt) handle
> clearsigning and ASCII-armored plaintext messages just fine.

you can use pgp_create_traditional.

however outhouse doesn't work well with the MIME type set to
application/pgp

my understanding is that this is deprecated anyway, so perhaps it's best
to change the default clearsign behavior to just plain text?

just an idea
 
> In my experience, trying to force people to do it the "right" way
> usually guarantees that no one will want to play nice with you, unless
> you're the guy with monopoly power

well there are reasons for this; namely you can only send in US/ascii if
you're using clear text signing / encryption.  it seems a bit
presumptious to assume that the whole world wants to send mail in
us/ascii.

it also makes signing / encryption of attachments impossible or
difficult.

> I'm aware of (and use) the patch to make mutt send
> "outlook-compatible" messages, since almost NO ONE I converse with on
> a regular basis can read PGP-MIME messages, but it still sends
> PGP-MIME messages when the message includes attachments, and doesn't
> seem to give me the option not to.  This sucks.

isn't this pretty much impossible (other than the method you mentioned
before of including uuencoded text in the message body)?  that was my
understanding anyway.

w

Re: List noise [was Re: signed emails, why ?]

[Jeremy Blosser]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 12:53:05PM -0600, David Champion [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> On 2002.01.07, in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>   "Benjamin Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Gary Johnson [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> > > >  - there's just too much noise
> > > 
> > > I don't know what to do about that, except to post less often myself.
> > 
> > And, ironically, he mailed the list to tell us why he's unsubscribing
> > instead of just unsubscribing.  =)
> 
> I don't think it's ironic, just excusably off-topic. But it's true, and

Especially considering that it's one of the Mutt "old guard" saying it.

> it needed to be said sometime. I've considered unsubscribing a number
> of times, myself, but I'm not quite to that point yet. However, when
> my 550-600 messages per day finally gets to be too much, which list
> will fall off first? That's right, the one with 50-75 messages per day,
> seemingly a third of which are social in nature, or questions about vim
> or other software that is not mutt.
> 
> Indicating that a problem exists hardly comprises noise in itself. I
> expect this will be my only complaint on the subject, but I've long felt
> that the issue deserved a little attention.

me too

I guess it's nice that Mutt is getting so much use these days, but a lot of
the traffic does seem to be... well, noise.  I admit I have a hard time
keeping www.mutt.org's user sections as current as I should at least
partially because of the fact that following this list very closely is a
formidable task.

Though, to be blunt, a more current FAQ would probably help a lot in
keeping the traffic down.  If anyone wanted to try their hand at it and did
a very good job I would certainly link to it.



msg22497/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Recovering interrupted compositions?

[Samuel Padgett]

Gary Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> A better way to handle this is to run screen on your work machine.  Then
> when your connection drops, simply re-logon to your work machine, run
> 'screen -r' to re-attach the screen session, and pick up where you left
> off.

This is a really good idea.  Thanks!

Sam

Re: Recovering interrupted compositions?

[Samuel Padgett]

Ken Weingold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> vim -r will give you a list of recoverable temp files.  Rarely fails
> me.

Yes, but then how do I actually send the message.  Cut-n-paste
into a new composition buffer?

I was hoping Mutt had some facility to notice /tmp/mutt-* files
that are unsent and allow you to resume composition--something
like what Gnus does.  If Emacs crashes while you're composing an
email in Gnus, the message is automatically stored in a "drafts"
group.  It then only takes a few keystrokes to get back to exactly
where you were.

The dropped connections happen often enough for me that
cut-n-paste becomes a real nuisance.  [ Unfortunately, the real
problem--the unreliable network connection--is out of my control
:-( ]

Thanks,
Sam

Re: Bold text

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At some point hitherto, David Champion hath spake thusly:

> This message is in enriched text. Here's some text in boldfaced type. 
> Here's italic. You can also do formatting -- you can 

These worked for me (using mutt 1.3.22.1)
>   
> center text, and
>   
>   right-justify it, and

As did these...
> 
> align it evenly to both sides, although the line breaks get a little 
> quirky. I suppose you need enough text to fill out at least two whole 
> display lines to make this example work to any visible effect. Here's a 
> little more noise, just to take up extra space for demonstration 
> purposes.

But this did not.

>  
> You can also do color: red text, and green text, and blue text -- all 
> eight ANSI text colors are supported in mutt, at least. 

And this didn't either.  They all showed up as blue text on a black
background.  Is this a settings issue, or do I just need to update?

Thanks


- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8Oe8PdjdlQoHP510RAhpsAKCXBM79U4p0Qeg5KoaLybWsFtBkqQCfYV1A
ZOzx005TNTv1kXoGDrgaREw=
=Ys2r
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: more of the same problem

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At some point hitherto, Erika Pacholleck hath spake thusly:
> [05.01.02 13:44 -0600] rhad <-- :
> > running fetchmail ...
> > This in turn gave me lovely error output:
> > rhad-linux:/home/rhad # fetchmail -v --keep -a >> /var/log/fetchmail
> > fetchmail: SMTP connect to localhost failed

Disclaimer:  I did not see the original post, so this advice might be
useless...  ;-)

It may be that sendmail is not running on the system, or is not
currently accepting mail due to some error condition.  Check to see if
it's running using something like 

  ps axu |grep sendmail

and look for a message about "sendmail: Accepting connections" or some
such thing.  If that gives you no clues, try checking your system logs
(probably /var/log/mail.log or similar).

If it's not running, start it with something like 

 /etc/init.d/sendmail start

If that works, you'll probably need to add it to your boot scripts,
with 

  checkconfig --add sendmail

HTH

- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8Oe3OdjdlQoHP510RAoIVAKChw+sYeVBZ/P0jH63i8IpoJSyUMwCeK3fl
qVf9oAc2fVjj0c4XCsM0heQ=
=J/Wp
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Send-hook is Lazy

[David Champion]

On 2002.01.07, in <20020107113541.GA629@shanti>,
"Franco Vite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  before my browser was
> 
>  1 r L 29 dic [MaX] 0,3K Archivi ML PPC?
>  2   F 30 dic [Franco Vite] 0,8K   >
> 
>  Now is
> 
>  1 r L 29 dic [MaX] 0,3K Archivi ML PPC?
>  2   F 30 dic [To Linuxppc Use] 0,8K   >
> 
>  Why?
> 
>  PS
>  "Linuxppc User" is the name of mailing list

Have you changed your value of $alternates? If the sender's name matches
$alternates, and your $index_format has "%F" in that slot, it will
expand to the recipient's name instead of to your name.

-- 
 -D.[EMAIL PROTECTED]NSITUniversity of Chicago

List noise [was Re: signed emails, why ?]

[David Champion]

On 2002.01.07, in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Benjamin Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gary Johnson [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> > >  - there's just too much noise
> > 
> > I don't know what to do about that, except to post less often myself.
> 
> And, ironically, he mailed the list to tell us why he's unsubscribing
> instead of just unsubscribing.  =)

I don't think it's ironic, just excusably off-topic. But it's true, and
it needed to be said sometime. I've considered unsubscribing a number
of times, myself, but I'm not quite to that point yet. However, when
my 550-600 messages per day finally gets to be too much, which list
will fall off first? That's right, the one with 50-75 messages per day,
seemingly a third of which are social in nature, or questions about vim
or other software that is not mutt.

Indicating that a problem exists hardly comprises noise in itself. I
expect this will be my only complaint on the subject, but I've long felt
that the issue deserved a little attention.

-- 
 -D.[EMAIL PROTECTED]NSITUniversity of Chicago

Mutt sucks less than the rest

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I like Mutt's motto: All e-mail clients suck; mutt just sucks less.
And I used to believe it too, until I started trying to use GPG
regularly.  I switched from Pine to mutt specifically for its built-in
support for PGP/GPG.  But I found that either I don't understand how
to best make use of this support, or it really needs some work.  I'd
like to offer my opinions about how to make mutt REALLY suck less, and
at the same time ask for help about how to fix some of the problems.
Also note that I'm using "Mutt 1.3.22.1i (2001-08-30)" so I guess it's
possible that some of this stuff may have changed in some of the
recent updates.  But that's not the sense that I get...

Here's my current list of gripes:

 - forwarded messages not included in quoting

There seems to be no way to make mutt include a forwarded message in
quoted text.  MUCH more often than not, that's the behavior I want, so
that I can comment on what the original writer wrote.  Maybe a way
does exist, since it seems intuitive that people would want to do
this, but I couldn't find a way.  IIRC, Pine (for example) has a handy
option for this.

 - sigs not included in quoting

Occasionally, you run across a sig that's just damn cool, or otherwise
warrants comment.  I can find no way to make mutt include the sig in
e-mail, temporarily or otherwise.  I'm certain that Pine has a handy
option for this.

 - HTML mail

I hate HTML mail as much as anyone.  Honestly.  But the fact is, a lot
of people use it.  And sometimes, important people use it.  Yes, mutt
does have ways to display these messages, but they are inconvenient at
best.  And, AFAIK, mutt does not include a means of QUOTING these
messages, when one must reply to them.  This sucks.  I'll grant you
that I toss these messages out usually anyway, but I need to have the
option of dealing with them if I need to.

 - encrypting attachments

Often when one sends an encrypted e-mail, one wants to send
attachments too.  Sometimes you want the attachment encrypted, and
sometimes you don't (or actually, I ALWAYS do, but I can conceive of
reasons why one might not, or at least not care).  Mutt seems to do
the latter by default, and there doesn't seem to be any way to do the
former in mutt, other than to uuencode all the files manually, and
paste them into the message that you're typing.  This defeats the
whole point of having PGP support, IMO.

 - pgp userid identification

Despite the fact that I've composed an e-mail to a person whose e-mail
address matches exactly one of the userid's in my gpg key ring, and
despite the fact that gpg will select the correct key every time when
invoked seperately on the command line, mutt insists on prompting me
to choose between several keys with somewhat similar e-mail addresses
attached to them.  This is, IMO, really dumb.  If I've got only one
key that matches an e-mail address exactly, mutt should use that key
and never prompt me to choose between other keys that might be
similar.

For example, I have two keys in my key ring, one of which is for the
e-mail address [EMAIL PROTECTED], and [EMAIL PROTECTED]

When I send e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], I'm always prompted
to choose between these two keys.  This makes NO sense.  If there's
one, and only one exact match, mutt should be smart enough to use it.

 - pgp hooks

The behavior of mutt wrt PGP hooks seems particularly brain dead.  I
attempted to solve the above problem by using a pgp hook to associate
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a particular key id.  Now, instead of
prompting me to choose between keys, mutt prompts me TWICE to see if I
really, really want to use that key.  I wouldn't have created a pgp
hook if I didn't  Come on!  The pgp hook should eliminate the need
for prompting!  What's the point, if it's just going to ask you to
select the key anyway?

 - clearsigned and/or ascii-armored messages

Whether you guys like it or not, most of the rest of the world uses
clearsigning and ascii-armored plaintext messages.  Mutt falls down
here.  You apparently refuse to support this, which makes no sense
since the majority of the PGP-using world uses this form of message.
This has caused me and a few of my mutt convertees and people we
converse with no end of headaches.

The FAQ mentions using procmail to "convert" these kinds of e-mail,
but I have two problems with that:

1) It is not and should not be the job of my MDA to modify messages
which are in a format in common use so that my MUA can read them.  My
MUA should be able to handle all forms of e-mail that are in common
usage.  Or at the very least, those described by RFCs, which this IS.

2) THIS DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK.  There are cases where, IIRC, if the
e-mail has attachments, the procmail filters recommended make the
e-mail in question unreadable by mutt.

THIS IS NOT A WORKABLE SOLUTION.

Also, mutt will only *send* PGP-MIME messages.  However, there are
only a handful of clients that can properly handle PGP-MIME, w

Re: Send-hook is Lazy

[Franco Vite]

[sab 05/01/2002, ore 12:57] => Aaron Schrab scrive:

> At 11:33 +0100 05 Jan 2002, Franco Vite <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  But: if I want to put the right signature when I replay (epmovi with
> >  .signature.epmovi, default From with .signature and so on [I've many
> >  accounts...]), how I can do?
> 
> You can have send-hooks that match on the address that the message will
> appear to be from:
> 
>   send-hook . set signature="~/.signature"
>   send-hook '~f epmovi' 'set signature=~/.signature.epmovi'
 
 Now I've a little problem:

 before my browser was

 1 r L 29 dic [MaX] 0,3K Archivi ML PPC?
 2   F 30 dic [Franco Vite] 0,8K   >

 Now is

 1 r L 29 dic [MaX] 0,3K Archivi ML PPC?
 2   F 30 dic [To Linuxppc Use] 0,8K   >

 Why?

 PS
 "Linuxppc User" is the name of mailing list

-- 
Franco
"Quello che abbiamo e' quello che ci siamo presi, e quello che ci siamo 
 presi e' solo una piccola parte di quello di cui abbiamo bisogno"
   Assalti Frontali

Re: more of the same problem

[Erika Pacholleck]

[05.01.02 13:44 -0600] rhad <-- :
> running fetchmail ...
> This in turn gave me lovely error output:
> rhad-linux:/home/rhad # fetchmail -v --keep -a >> /var/log/fetchmail
> fetchmail: SMTP connect to localhost failed

SMTP is a sendmail/alternate matter.
I am using postfix for this purpose, so I can't help with sendmail.

> ...
> after that I also tried to send some email (local and global) only to get
> SMTP errors.  ARGH!

Seems your problem is sendmail here. If you absolutely can't get
it working, you might try postfix instead (compiles like charm here,
documentation is understandable and needs only 3-4 variables changed
to get it going for the first run). Then make sure the daemon is in
the background waiting for work.

> (multiple pop servers for email, one outgoing mail server at the ISP, a DSL
> connection, and linux (2.4 based)) ...

similar, but not equal:
linux-2.4.x, modem, multiple pop, one ISP relay, postfix/fetchmail/mutt.
-- 
Erika Pacholleck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
mutters: insert vowels of last name

Re: Bold text

[David Champion]

On 2002.01.07, in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
	"Nick Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes I mean /like/ HTML, but *not* HTML as I dump anything of nature
> also. I guess my understanding of real ASCII text is mistaken. I thought
> that because I saw bold text in mails sent to me (back when I was
> exclusively using Eudora under Win) that I could do the same. I guess
> they were some kind of HTML thing.

You could use enriched text. It's documented in RFC 1563: ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc1563.txt

It's HTML-like, without being HTML, and it could be what you've seen in Eudora. Eudora used to send enriched text when you applied styles, I think. Now it just sends HTML (badly), but it still can interpret enriched text (badly).

This message is in enriched text. Here's some text in boldfaced type. Here's italic. You can also do formatting -- you can
center text, and right-justify it, and
align it evenly to both sides, although the line breaks get a little quirky. I suppose you need enough text to fill out at least two whole display lines to make this example work to any visible effect. Here's a little more noise, just to take up extra space for demonstration purposes.
You can also do color: red text, and green text, and blue text -- all eight ANSI text colors are supported in mutt, at least.

(Actually, I'm not entirely sure that mutt's enriched handler is handling this correctly. Colors and bold/italics work, but only with an external pager, not with the builtin pager. Left, center, and right alignments work in either, but full-flush alignment does not. Thomas, this seems like a bug, but this is the first time I've played with enriched text, and I could be off base. I'm using 1.3.24 at the moment.)

Watch what happens if you resize your viewing window and re-display the message! All enriched text is flowed by default.

I'm not sure what the best way to *create* enriched text is, though. Presumably you'd want some kind of graphicky editor, but I don't know squat about those.

-- 
 -D.	[EMAIL PROTECTED]	NSIT	University of Chicago

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Benjamin Reed]

Gary Johnson [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> >  - there's just too much noise
> 
> I don't know what to do about that, except to post less often myself.
> 
> Gary

And, ironically, he mailed the list to tell us why he's unsubscribing
instead of just unsubscribing.  =)

-- 
Ben Reed a.k.a. Ranger Rick ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://defiance.dyndns.org/ / http://radio.scenespot.org/
Frankenstein was the creator -- not the monster.  It's a common
misconception, held by all truly stupid people. -- Kryten

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Gary Johnson]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 05:05:39PM +, Lars Hecking wrote:

>  I have been on this list since 1997, and I'm unsubscribing because
> 
>  - too many mails on the list are signed, which slows down processing
>immensly

Why not just 'unset pgp_verify_sig'?  That's what I do.

>  - there's just too much noise

I don't know what to do about that, except to post less often myself.

Gary

-- 
Gary Johnson   | Agilent Technologies
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   | Spokane, Washington, USA
http://www.spocom.com/users/gjohnson/mutt/ |

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Steve Kennedy]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 12:43:02PM -0500, Justin R. Miller wrote:

> I would say to look at it like a mailing list signature that you have no
> say in.  Perhaps you could make procmail remove it, or otherwise modify
> the mail, but other than that I think that you will have to live with
> people signing list mail. 

Or have the list software remove it, but I wouldn't like to do
that ;)

Steve

-- 
NetTek Ltd Flat 2, 43 Howitt Road, Belsize Park, London NW3 4LU, UK
tel +44-(0)20 7483 1169  fax +44-(0)20 7483 2455   mob 07775 755503
SMS steve-pager (at) gbnet.net [body] gpg 1024D/468952DB 2001-09-19

Re: Recovering interrupted compositions?

[Gary Johnson]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 12:44:09PM -0500, Samuel Padgett wrote:
> I sometimes ssh into my machine from work and use Mutt.  The
> connection through the firewall, however, is, uh, a bit tenuous
> and often gets dropped.  Sometimes this happens when I am
> composing a message.  Is there a good way to recover these
> compositions and pick up where I left off?
> 
> I'm using Vim as my editor.

Depending on how vim was terminated, you might be able to use 'vim -r'
to recover the file.  See the man page.

A better way to handle this is to run screen on your work machine.  Then
when your connection drops, simply re-logon to your work machine, run
'screen -r' to re-attach the screen session, and pick up where you left
off.  Everything will be just as it was when the connection dropped.  It
is _so_ nice!  See

http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~guckes/screen/

Gary

-- 
Gary Johnson   | Agilent Technologies
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   | Spokane, Washington, USA
http://www.spocom.com/users/gjohnson/mutt/ |

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Justin R. Miller]

Thus spake Alexander Skwar ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> > Look into the archives and into the Web to find out why PGP is a
> > good thing.
> 
> Of course it's a good thing.  No doubt about that.  But not for
> mailinglist mails.  And also not for usenet news.

This has been discussed often on this and other lists in the past.  I
think we all have to agree to disagree on this topic, as there are
staunch supporters on both sides of the argument.  

I would say to look at it like a mailing list signature that you have no
say in.  Perhaps you could make procmail remove it, or otherwise modify
the mail, but other than that I think that you will have to live with
people signing list mail. 

-- 
Justin R. Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
View my website at http://codesorcery.net
Please encrypt email using key 0xC9C40C31



msg22482/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Recovering interrupted compositions?

[Ken Weingold]

On Mon, Jan  7, 2002, Samuel Padgett wrote:
> I sometimes ssh into my machine from work and use Mutt.  The
> connection through the firewall, however, is, uh, a bit tenuous
> and often gets dropped.  Sometimes this happens when I am
> composing a message.  Is there a good way to recover these
> compositions and pick up where I left off?
> 
> I'm using Vim as my editor.

vim -r will give you a list of recoverable temp files.  Rarely fails
me.


-Ken

Recovering interrupted compositions?

[Samuel Padgett]

I sometimes ssh into my machine from work and use Mutt.  The
connection through the firewall, however, is, uh, a bit tenuous
and often gets dropped.  Sometimes this happens when I am
composing a message.  Is there a good way to recover these
compositions and pick up where I left off?

I'm using Vim as my editor.

Sam

Problem with mbox-hook

[Ben Logan]

Hello,

I've been using Mutt for some time now (and really like it).  I
decided I would try using a few mbox-hook's, and can't seem to get any
to work.  Here are what I think are the relavant lines from my .muttrc:

set folder="~/mail"
set move=ask-yes
mbox-hook =python-list =python-list-save

Just as an example.  I use procmail to filter the mail into a folder
~/mail/python-list.  I would then like for mutt to send the read
messages to ~/mail/python-list-save when I leave the box.  But it
doesn't work. :)

I've read the docs, sample rc's, and mail list archives...but to no
avail.

Thanks,
Ben

-- 
Ben Logan: ben at wblogan dot net
OpenPGP Key KeyID: A1ADD1F0

An apple a day makes 365 apples a year.

Automatic mailboxes with maildir

[Marcus Spading]

Hello mutters,

after using mutt more than three months now, I am very pleased with it.
It does nearly everything I want it to (and every day a bit more).

One thing I haven't found out until today, was an automated way of
finding maildir-style mailboxes. All solutions I found so far used
mbox-style mailboxes. I tried it myself many times over the last months
an today I finally found a solution and I want to share it:

find $HOME/mail -path *cur -printf %P | sed 's/\/cur/ =/g;s/^/=/'

That's it. Small and clean. Small explanation for those who do not speak
sed as their native tongue (including myself, but using vim for some
months as an editor sed slowly loses some of its mysteries .-)

- start searching under $HOME/mail
- look for "cur" in path
- if found print path without $HOME/mail in front (%P)
- sed looks for "/cur" and replaces it with " ="
- now all mailboxes are correct prefixed inspite the first one 
- the second sed expression starting after ";" corrects that

The full commandline for the muttrc:
mailboxes `find ...`

Any comments, suggestions and improvements greatly appreciated.

-- 
BNCU
Marcus



msg22478/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Alexander Skwar]

So sprach »Cristian« am 2002-01-07 um 18:03:24 +0100 :
> you have not signed your message, so all the remarks I am going to
> make may not apply to the real Alexander Skwar. Maybe some villain
> wanted to make Alexander look daft by forging that email.

Even if so, it wouldn't matter much.  Just because someone signed your
mail with a key saying that it was from "you" doesn't mean that the mail
is actually from you.

> 
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 05:36:43PM +0100, Alexander Skwar (?) wrote:
> > No, it's not.  Personal mails and "important" mails should be signed
> > and/or encrypted.  However mailinglist mails should not be encrypted,
> 
> Please learn the difference between encrypting and signing!
> 
> Sending encrypted messages to mailing lists comes with big logistic
> problems. It may also be unnecessary. But you meant signing, right?

No, I meant signed and/or encrypted, because I was talking about both
personal mails and mailing list mails.  

> 
> > because those mails are not important,
> 
> Are you talking about your email or about all messages sent to mailing
> lists?

About 99,99% of mails sent to mailinglists.  This of course also
includes my mails, but also mails like your reply.

> GnuPG uses a cache to reduce this overhead. I can live with it on an
> ISDN dialup line. Signatures are really small, and encrypted messages
> are compressed automatically. If you receive many encrypted messages,
> your hard disk will say `thank you'!

For encrypted messages, that's right, yes.  However for signed messages,
that's not correct.  Even if the signature is small, 2000xsmall == big.

> Look into the archives and into the Web to find out why PGP is a good
> thing.

Of course it's a good thing.  No doubt about that.  But not for
mailinglist mails.  And also not for usenet news.

Alexander Skwar
-- 
How to quote:   http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english)
Homepage:   http://www.iso-top.de  | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   iso-top.de - Die günstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen
   Uptime: 22 days 1 hour 31 minutes

Re: how make From: header dependent on recipient?

[Tom Jones]

On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 01:20:08PM -0800, Gary Johnson wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 05:04:25PM +, Tom Jones wrote:
> > [setting From: in replies depending on which of my addresses was a 
> > rcpt of the original mail]
> > 
> > > Sure.  Set 'alternates' to a regular expression that describes all the
> > > addresses that are yours.  This can be a simple list with the elements
> > > separated by '|'.  Then set 'reverse_name'.  See the manual for
> > > specifics.
> > 
> > This is nearly working now. It works fine for personal mail where
> > stuff is actually addressed to me. But I would like it to try and work
> > whenever I am a recipient of the mail. So, for example, it will not
> > work with this mail because the only relevant header in your post to
> > the list is 
> > 
> > Delivered-To: GMX delivery to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > So I will now have to go and edit the from header manually (if I
> > remember).
> > 
> > Can mutt do what I want?
> 
> I don't know.  A send-hook might handle the "Delivered-To:" case.  Take
> a look at the section on "Patterns " in the manual and do some
> experimenting.  You might be able to get a ~h pattern to work, or if you
> know which addresses you've used to subscribe to which mailing lists,
> you could match the list's address instead to select the appropriate
> 'my_hdr From: ...'

The trouble is that send-hook can only look at the message that's
about to be sent, not its "parent". After a web trawl, it looks like
the patch described in the second half of this mail 
http://www.ultraviolet.org/mail-archives/mutt-users.2001/2406.html
may be what I'm after. I'll give it a go soon.

TJ

Re: how make From: header dependent on recipient?

[Tom Jones]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 01:52:19AM +0300, Im Eunjea wrote:
> * Tom Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-01-06 00:53]:
> > 
> > (2)when replying to a message, look at the delivered-to, to, cc,
> > etc headers. If one of them is in the list from (1), set the From: header
> > to that. Otherwise set the From: value to a default value.

> I think you can use "message-hook" with "~h" pattern.
> something like this:
>
> message-hook '~h ^To:.*blah@blah\.org' \
>   'my_hdr From: someone '

I did a much expanded version of that, and it's fairly good, but
sometimes I reply to messages directly from the list view. That
will slip through.

> message-hook ~p 'my_hdr From: someone '

No, because this need arises in the first place from the fact that
reverse_name doesn't look at enough headers to see if they contain
something from $alternates. ~p will surely suffer from the same
problem.

What I really need is either some sort of "reply-hook" or access
to the "parent" message in send-hook.

It looks like I will need to patch mutt one way or another to get 
what I want, which is surprising, because this seems like it should
be a common user requirement.

cheers,

Tom.

Re: Mutt, SuSE & Gnupg

[Dallam]

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 05:32:58PM +0100, Cristian wrote:
> Hi Dallam,

> although I don't have a solution to your problem, I think that
> debugging will become easier if you uninstall unnecessary software
> like geheimnis and gpa. Mutt does not need them.

You are correct I am sure, as I become more familiar with Mutt and
gnupg I suspect that I won't need these programs. I only use them
when I am to lazy to man mutt/ man gpg :)

> Have you made sure that your key is in the secret keyring, too? Try:
> gpg --list-secret-keys

yes, I have done that...and they are there.

> To me this does not look like a SuSE-specific issue. Have you tried to
> encrypt and sign some files from the command line? If this causes
> trouble too, please check your settings in "~/.gnupg/options". You
> should have this:

[snip]

I haven't done anything with ~/.gnugp/options except to add the
keyserver I am using there, and to add "no-secmem-warning". What you
say makes sense though and I will give it a try.
What I have found is this:
I made a copy of gpg.rc from /usr/share/doc/packages/mutt and put it
in /etc/Muttrc. I then removed all the "--comments ''" from the
settings. I sent myself a signed/encrypted mail and it seems to work
now. I have also sent to a few others and they reply that it is
encrypted as well, so it seems that I making some progress with it.
I can encrypt files and sign them from the command line ok, so this
problem seems to have been not knowing how to correctly configure
Muttrc for gnupg. Good learning experience :)


> By the way: I could not retrieve your key from my keyserver,
> wwwkeys.de.pgp.net. I saw this line in your message:
> X-PGP-Key: search.keyserver.net
> ... and found your key there (via web browser).
> Obviously my server needs an update from your server. If you find the
> time, you might want do this yourself by uploading your key to a
> pgp.net server.

Will be glad to do that, thanks for telling me. I will try to do it
today, but wife is due home in a few minutes and my computing time
drops drastically once that happens.
Thanks,
Dallam
-- 
Registered Linux User #213656
2217 4EB8 461D 743B 47CF
0D68 C32A 5CDE A89A 2371




msg22474/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Lars Hecking]

Alexander Skwar writes:
> So sprach »Steve Kennedy« am 2002-01-07 um 12:52:25 + :
> > Why does everyone send signed emails to the list, is it always
> > necessary ?
> 
> No, it's not.  Personal mails and "important" mails should be signed
> and/or encrypted.  However mailinglist mails should not be encrypted,
> because those mails are not important, and thus the overhead for signing
> (both processing time and bandwidth/hd-space wise) is just wasted.

 Exactly.

 I have been on this list since 1997, and I'm unsubscribing because

 - too many mails on the list are signed, which slows down processing
   immensly

 - there's just too much noise

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Cristian]

Dear Alexander,

you have not signed your message, so all the remarks I am going to
make may not apply to the real Alexander Skwar. Maybe some villain
wanted to make Alexander look daft by forging that email.

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 05:36:43PM +0100, Alexander Skwar (?) wrote:
> No, it's not.  Personal mails and "important" mails should be signed
> and/or encrypted.  However mailinglist mails should not be encrypted,

Please learn the difference between encrypting and signing!

Sending encrypted messages to mailing lists comes with big logistic
problems. It may also be unnecessary. But you meant signing, right?

> because those mails are not important,

Are you talking about your email or about all messages sent to mailing
lists?

> and thus the overhead for signing (both processing time and
> bandwidth/hd-space wise) is just wasted.

GnuPG uses a cache to reduce this overhead. I can live with it on an
ISDN dialup line. Signatures are really small, and encrypted messages
are compressed automatically. If you receive many encrypted messages,
your hard disk will say `thank you'!

Look into the archives and into the Web to find out why PGP is a good
thing.

Cristian


-- 

}{  Cristian Pietsch
}{  http://www.interling.de



msg22472/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: evolution

[Nick Wilson]

* Michael P. Soulier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [020107 17:44]:
> 
> Hey people. 
> 
> I just wanted to share a sentiment. At work I'm playing with Evolution
> because of all of these nuts around me obsessed with M$
> Lookout!. IMHO, Evolution 1.0 is not "evolution" at all, it's more
> like a step backwards. I _greatly_ prefer my Mutt + Exim + Procmail +
> Fetchmail setup to this lousy client that tries to be everything I
> need and does it horribly. 
> 
> Kudos on Mutt. Long live software that doesn't suck. 
> 
> Mike

Sheesh I just came from kmail!
Like most things Unix-ish there's a fair old learning curve, but sooo
worth it!

-- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com






msg22471/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Save an entire thread to different folder?

[Michael Tatge]

Kenneth Pronovici muttered:
> Can someone tell me how I can save an entire thread from my inbox to a
> different folder? I thought I would just be able to tag the thread
> and save the tagged messages, but I can't figure out how to do that.  

tag-thread   "-t"
tag-prefix   ";"
save-message "s"

i.e.:
macro index ,T  "save a thread"

HTH,

Michael
-- 

PGP-Key: http://www-stud.ims.uni-stuttgart.de/~tatgeml/public.key

Re: signed emails, why ?

[Alexander Skwar]

So sprach »Steve Kennedy« am 2002-01-07 um 12:52:25 + :
> Why does everyone send signed emails to the list, is it always
> necessary ?

No, it's not.  Personal mails and "important" mails should be signed
and/or encrypted.  However mailinglist mails should not be encrypted,
because those mails are not important, and thus the overhead for signing
(both processing time and bandwidth/hd-space wise) is just wasted.

Alexander Skwar
-- 
How to quote:   http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english)
Homepage:   http://www.iso-top.de  | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   iso-top.de - Die günstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen
   Uptime: 22 days 0 hours 36 minutes

Re: Save an entire thread to different folder?

[Kenneth Pronovici]

> http://mutt.org/doc/manual/manual-6.html
> 
> tag-thread   ESC t   tag/untag all messages in the current thread
> tag-prefix   ;   apply next command to tagged entries

Thanks, both of you.  Had tag-prefix remapped and didn't realize it.  That's
exactly what I needed.

KEN

-- 
Kenneth J. Pronovici <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Personal Homepage: http://www.skyjammer.com/~pronovic/
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little 
 temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
  - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 



msg22468/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Mutt, SuSE & Gnupg

[Cristian]

Hi Dallam,

although I don't have a solution to your problem, I think that
debugging will become easier if you uninstall unnecessary software
like geheimnis and gpa. Mutt does not need them.

Have you made sure that your key is in the secret keyring, too? Try:
gpg --list-secret-keys

To me this does not look like a SuSE-specific issue. Have you tried to
encrypt and sign some files from the command line? If this causes
trouble too, please check your settings in "~/.gnupg/options". You
should have this:

# ---8<---
# If you have more than 1 secret key in your keyring, you may want
# to uncomment the following option and set your preferred keyid
default-key A89A2371
# ---8<---

You may also want to play with these settings:

# ---8<---
# If you do not pass a recipient to gpg, it will ask for one.
# Using this option you can encrypt to a default key.  key validation
# will not be done in this case.
# The second form uses the default key as default recipient.

#default-recipient some-user-id
default-recipient-self
# ---8<---

See below ...

On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 01:44:37AM +, Dallam wrote:
> The Problem:
> When emailing, after I chose b(oth) sign/encrypt I type "y" to mail,
> enter my passphrase and in konsole I get the following:
> gpg: A89A2371--: skipped: public key not found.
[...]
> I am at the point of being losted with this now, and am hoping that
> someone on this list uses SuSE and might enlighten me as to what the
> problem is

I am using SuSE, so I may have the empathy you need :-)

> Would it make a difference that I only used one name (Dallam) insted
> of both names for the userid?

Should not be a problem.

> Also, after I generated the keys was there something else that I was
> supposed to do perhaps (other than to create a revocation
> certificate) that I might have missed?

I cannot think of anything. 

> Anyway, I am hoping that someone will be able to help me with this
> before I pull to much more hair out :)

This is all that came to my mind. I hope it calms you down :-)

By the way: I could not retrieve your key from my keyserver,
wwwkeys.de.pgp.net. I saw this line in your message:
X-PGP-Key: search.keyserver.net
... and found your key there (via web browser).
Obviously my server needs an update from your server. If you find the
time, you might want do this yourself by uploading your key to a
pgp.net server.

Cheers,
Cristian

-- 

}{  Cristian Pietsch
}{  http://www.interling.de



msg22467/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

evolution

[Michael P. Soulier]

Hey people. 

I just wanted to share a sentiment. At work I'm playing with Evolution
because of all of these nuts around me obsessed with M$
Lookout!. IMHO, Evolution 1.0 is not "evolution" at all, it's more
like a step backwards. I _greatly_ prefer my Mutt + Exim + Procmail +
Fetchmail setup to this lousy client that tries to be everything I
need and does it horribly. 

Kudos on Mutt. Long live software that doesn't suck. 

Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, GnuPG pub key: 5BC8BE08
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to Unix



msg22466/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Save an entire thread to different folder?

[Im Eunjea]

* Kenneth Pronovici <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-01-07 10:02]:
> I thought I remembered seeing something about this in the list over the
> last month, but I can't find it in the archives.  Can someone tell me
> how I can save an entire thread from my inbox to a different folder?
> I thought I would just be able to tag the thread and save the tagged
> messages, but I can't figure out how to do that.  
> 
> Assuming I've just missed it in the documentation, a pointer to the
> right section is fine.
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> KEN
> 

http://mutt.org/doc/manual/manual-6.html

tag-thread   ESC t   tag/untag all messages in the current thread
tag-prefix   ;   apply next command to tagged entries


-- 
Eunjea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

GnuPG fingerprint: 08C9 2D3F 91B2 D395 2EFF  4C33 544C 321C E194 91CF



msg22465/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Save an entire thread to different folder?

[David T-G]

Kenneth --

...and then Kenneth Pronovici said...
% 
% I thought I remembered seeing something about this in the list over the
% last month, but I can't find it in the archives.  Can someone tell me

I know it was there; I saw it, too -- or at least I saw something.
All I could find on a quick search, though, was Roman's request for tag
functions in the pager view (where the help shows them but where they
are actually not available).


% how I can save an entire thread from my inbox to a different folder?
% I thought I would just be able to tag the thread and save the tagged
% messages, but I can't figure out how to do that.  


You should be able to just esc-t to tag the thread and then ;s to save
it.  


% 
% Assuming I've just missed it in the documentation, a pointer to the
% right section is fine.

Ah.  Well, 2.3.3 (Threaded Mode) and 4.3 (Using Tags) might do it for
you, then :-)


% 
% Thanks for the help.

HTH & HAND


% 
% KEN
% 
% -- 
% Kenneth J. Pronovici <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
% Personal Homepage: http://www.skyjammer.com/~pronovic/
% "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little 
%  temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
%   - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 


:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




msg22464/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Save an entire thread to different folder?

[Kenneth Pronovici]

I thought I remembered seeing something about this in the list over the
last month, but I can't find it in the archives.  Can someone tell me
how I can save an entire thread from my inbox to a different folder?
I thought I would just be able to tag the thread and save the tagged
messages, but I can't figure out how to do that.  

Assuming I've just missed it in the documentation, a pointer to the
right section is fine.

Thanks for the help.

KEN

-- 
Kenneth J. Pronovici <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Personal Homepage: http://www.skyjammer.com/~pronovic/
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little 
 temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
  - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 



msg22463/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature