Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Craig Wallace]

On 2016-11-09 13:47, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote:

El onsdag 9. november 2016 13.36.11 CET Craig Wallace escribió:

Is it just for streets? Or can you add photos of footpaths, cyclepaths,
railways, rivers etc. Or any other feature you can travel along.
Why not have a name with less focus on streets?


For the same reason OpenStreetMap has footpaths, cyclepaths, railways, rivers
but is still called openSTREETmap?


That's more for historical reasons and tradition. I think the 
OpenStreetMap name may be confusing, and discourage potential 
contributors. But it is now a well known brand, so not worth the effort 
of changing it. And the community would never agree on what to change it to.


But if OpenStreetView *has* to change its name, it could change to 
something more inclusive. And something more distinct from 
OpenStreetMap, to make it clear it is a separate project.



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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Celine Jacquin]

Hi all
I know the laim vision of OSM is to axhieve a good quality mapping ,  but i
want to say that i have been exploring uses more qualitative of the
Photomapping apps OSV and Mapillary , and these tools are extremely
powerful to document projects with an ethnographic dimension. View from the
subject,  every subject,  the child,  the person with wheelchair, the
elderly, the woman in public space, the prostitute, etc.
It is ablsolutely amazing and all these people is giving their view of tbe
world in a same database.

The point is, the name could take tbe word People
PeoplesView

Best

El mié., 9 de noviembre de 2016 9:16 AM, <talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org>
escribió:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: OpenStreetView name change (Michał Brzozowski)
>2. Re: OpenStreetView name change (Simon Poole)
>3. Re: OpenStreetView name change (Frank Villaro-Dixon)
>4. Re: Use policies update (Martin Koppenhoefer)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 10:10:53 +0100
> From: Michał Brzozowski <www.ha...@gmail.com>
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change
> Message-ID:
> <
> caefpf59y8qxaafeswtcqsblvqqgplpahcwnd7ncjyawpyvj...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> How about StreetOpenView? ;)
> Streetscape sounds fine to me, too.
>
> 08.11.2016 16:37 "Martijn van Exel" <m...@rtijn.org> napisał(a):
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open
> street
> > level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and iOS.
> > Since then, we not only have collected almost 30 kilometers of
> > coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the
> press.
> > This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company
> > with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name. So
> we
> > are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to
> ask
> > if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
> >
> > Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping,
> >
> > Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
> >
> > ___
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> > talk@openstreetmap.org
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> >
> >
> -- next part --
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> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 11:58:42 +0100
> From: Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch>
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change
> Message-ID: <62077355-fae0-bd10-abbc-c31a8dad8...@poole.ch>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Streetscape is totally fine, if you just want to have the same problems
> again.
>
> Rough step by step guide to finding a workable product name:
>
> - don't do it in public
>
> - don't use anything descriptive
>
> - google for the name
>
> - do an exhaustive trademark search (or rather let your fav IP counsel
> do it for you)
>
> - register the trademark in your target markets
>
> - register the domain names
>
> - launch the product
>
> Simon
>
> Am 09.11.2016 um 10:10 schrieb Michał Brzozowski:
> >
> > How about StreetOpenView? ;)
> > Streetscape sounds fine to me, too.
> >
> >
> > 08.11.2016 16:37 "Martijn van Exel" <m...@rtijn.org <mailto:m...@rtijn.org>>
> > napisał(a):
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and
> > open street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for
> > Android and iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost
> > 30 kilometers of coverage, but also received a lot of
> > attention from both you and the press. This has also led 

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Iván Sánchez Ortega]

El onsdag 9. november 2016 13.36.11 CET Craig Wallace escribió:
> Is it just for streets? Or can you add photos of footpaths, cyclepaths,
> railways, rivers etc. Or any other feature you can travel along.
> Why not have a name with less focus on streets?

For the same reason OpenStreetMap has footpaths, cyclepaths, railways, rivers 
but is still called openSTREETmap?

-- 
Iván Sánchez Ortega   


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Craig Wallace]

On 2016-11-08 15:34, Martijn van Exel wrote:

Hi all,

A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open
street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and
iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost 30 kilometers of
coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the
press. This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known
company with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView
name. So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I
wanted to ask if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?

Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping,


Is it just for streets? Or can you add photos of footpaths, cyclepaths, 
railways, rivers etc. Or any other feature you can travel along.

Why not have a name with less focus on streets?

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Frank Villaro-Dixon]

On 16-11-08 19:13:34, Joseph Reeves, wrote 3.9K characters saying:

How about just StreetScape?


I would argue against this.

To me, "OpenStreetView" sounds okay in non-english languages (Spanish, 
French, German), contrary to "StreetScape" which I imagine would be really 
strange for me to say to a Spanish person: "Existe también una 
alternativa: StreetScape"; they would look at me strangely.


My two cents,

Cheers



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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Simon Poole]

Streetscape is totally fine, if you just want to have the same problems
again.

Rough step by step guide to finding a workable product name:

- don't do it in public

- don't use anything descriptive

- google for the name

- do an exhaustive trademark search (or rather let your fav IP counsel
do it for you)

- register the trademark in your target markets

- register the domain names

- launch the product

Simon

Am 09.11.2016 um 10:10 schrieb Michał Brzozowski:
>
> How about StreetOpenView? ;)
> Streetscape sounds fine to me, too.
>
>
> 08.11.2016 16:37 "Martijn van Exel" >
> napisał(a):
>
> Hi all, 
>
> A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and
> open street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for
> Android and iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost
> 30 kilometers of coverage, but also received a lot of
> attention from both you and the press. This has also led to a
> friendly (for now) request by a well-known company with a
> similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name. So
> we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I
> wanted to ask if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
>
> Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping, 
>
> Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> 
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Michał Brzozowski]

How about StreetOpenView? ;)
Streetscape sounds fine to me, too.

08.11.2016 16:37 "Martijn van Exel"  napisał(a):

> Hi all,
>
> A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open street
> level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and iOS.
> Since then, we not only have collected almost 30 kilometers of
> coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the press.
> This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company
> with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name. So we
> are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to ask
> if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
>
> Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping,
>
> Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Simon Poole]

Am 08.11.2016 um 19:51 schrieb Glenn Plas:
> ..
> View is quite a common word. Imagine apple claiming the rights on
> anything that starts with I- : I-crap, I-whatever, I-rail, I-eat (there
> are thousands of those). They wouldn't exist either without Apple.
Apple is naturally the text book example that you can use a commonly
used word as a trademark, it just needs to be not descriptive. So it is
completely OK to use Apple as a mark for computers, but not for fruit.

>
> They seem to have no problem with OpenStreetMap vs. Google StreetMap
> right?  Because they know they would loose this in court.  It's just FUD
> tactics.
Google doesn't have a product called "Google StreetMap" that I know of,
the rest is just speculation.

> I've went against Google in 2008 on a map dispute and won , didn't have
> to pay 50K per year for 3 years because of it(prob. peanuts for them but
> they went after us anyway).   Didn't cost me nothing btw. well worth it.
>
> They thought they could force American rules on a Belgian company, they
> might have plenty of lawyers, doesn't really help as only 1 can talk at
> the same time and when they are ignorant they loose.
A reference would be nice to see if it had anything to do with the
incident at hand. But on one hand TeleNav is located in the states and
on the other hand winning something in Belgium is really only relevant
if Belgium is your only market.
 
>
> in our EU law system you cannot claim ownership over common words like
> that.  It's not because you're big and bold that you can get away with
> bullying.
As explained above naturally you can, and if you can show that your mark
is well established (see notorious, and similar concepts, trademarks)
you might even get around some of the normal restrictions (a good
example is the OpenStreetMap trademark).
>
> So, why not use OpenStreetMapView ? It's just an extra word behind an
> existing brand, almost as old as Giggle maps.
> .
See my previous mail on that.

Simon




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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Pierre Béland]

LibreView ?
  
Pierre 


  De : Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdre...@gmail.com>
 À : Glenn Plas <gl...@byte-consult.be> 
Cc : talk@openstreetmap.org
 Envoyé le : mardi 8 novembre 2016 15h52
 Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change
   


sent from a phone

> Il giorno 08 nov 2016, alle ore 19:51, Glenn Plas <gl...@byte-consult.be> ha 
> scritto:
> 
> in our EU law system you cannot claim ownership over common words like
> that.  It's not because you're big and bold that you can get away with
> bullying.
> 


well, a German telco has successfully claimed ownership of a common color.


What about OpenFreeView ;-)
Photorama
crowd'sView
Omnivision

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 08 nov 2016, alle ore 19:51, Glenn Plas  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> in our EU law system you cannot claim ownership over common words like
> that.  It's not because you're big and bold that you can get away with
> bullying.
> 


well, a German telco has successfully claimed ownership of a common color.


What about OpenFreeView ;-)
Photorama
crowd'sView
Omnivision

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Simon Poole]

Sigh 

Trademarks are not patents, there is no concept similar to  prior art
(there is in the US some thing which comes quite close, but that is just
1 (one) country). If you are a trademark owner you need to monitor
applications that are close to your mark and if the examiners don't
throw them out because of them being too similar with existing
registrations, submit an opposition to the resp. IP office.

In any case the complaint by They-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named was not only not
unexpected, it was entirely expected.

TeleNav does not have a licence to use OpenStreet-anything from the
OSMF, and as all projects that use a name that plays on OpenStreetMap
the only thing it does is weaken the status of the OpenStreetMap mark,
impacting our position if we ever have to defend seriously against
misuse (you could argue that we, not They-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named should
have asked TeleNav to not use the name for the above reasons).

Tacking "Open" on front of anything is very unoriginal and in the
meantime completely meaningless, at best it might imply "slightly less
closed", but even that is not a given.

Simon

Am 08.11.2016 um 19:54 schrieb Richard Fairhurst:
> Andy Mabbett wrote:
>> This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no 
>> "Ford Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing 
>> Happy Meal". for example).
> Though there is Ordnance Survey Street View, which pre-dates Google Street
> View by several years. (It's soon to be replaced by OS Open Map Local.)
>
> FWIW, I like the "-scape" suffix, e.g. OpenStreetscape:
>
>  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/streetscape
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/OpenStreetView-name-change-tp5885558p5885580.html
> Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Lester Caine]

On 08/11/16 18:54, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> FWIW, I like the "-scape" suffix, e.g. OpenStreetscape:

Get's my vote  Capital 'S' though OpenStreetScape

-- 
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-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Joseph Reeves]

How about just StreetScape?

I think the open- prefix is unnecessary unless OpenStreetView is officially
part of the OSM project? We should be expecting all good projects to be
open by default, so branding as Open may be unnecessary. In addition,
projects should be aiming to compete on features and completeness (as
helped by the openness) as opposed to relying on being open as a USP.

Just my 2 pennies worth,

Joseph

On 8 Nov 2016 6:57 pm, "Richard Fairhurst"  wrote:
>
> Andy Mabbett wrote:
> > This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no
> > "Ford Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing
> > Happy Meal". for example).
>
> Though there is Ordnance Survey Street View, which pre-dates Google Street
> View by several years. (It's soon to be replaced by OS Open Map Local.)
>
> FWIW, I like the "-scape" suffix, e.g. OpenStreetscape:
>
>  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/streetscape
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/OpenStreetView-name-change-tp5885558p5885580.html
> Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Richard Fairhurst]

Andy Mabbett wrote:
> This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no 
> "Ford Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing 
> Happy Meal". for example).

Though there is Ordnance Survey Street View, which pre-dates Google Street
View by several years. (It's soon to be replaced by OS Open Map Local.)

FWIW, I like the "-scape" suffix, e.g. OpenStreetscape:

 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/streetscape

Richard



--
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http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/OpenStreetView-name-change-tp5885558p5885580.html
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Glenn Plas]

On 08-11-16 19:16, Hakuch wrote:
> On 08.11.2016 18:34, Glenn Plas wrote:
>> I think it's definitely totally unreasonable by Giegle.
> 
> To be honest, no one would have chosen "View" if there not has been that
> other tool, do you?

View is quite a common word. Imagine apple claiming the rights on
anything that starts with I- : I-crap, I-whatever, I-rail, I-eat (there
are thousands of those). They wouldn't exist either without Apple.

They seem to have no problem with OpenStreetMap vs. Google StreetMap
right?  Because they know they would loose this in court.  It's just FUD
tactics.

I've went against Google in 2008 on a map dispute and won , didn't have
to pay 50K per year for 3 years because of it(prob. peanuts for them but
they went after us anyway).   Didn't cost me nothing btw. well worth it.

They thought they could force American rules on a Belgian company, they
might have plenty of lawyers, doesn't really help as only 1 can talk at
the same time and when they are ignorant they loose.

in our EU law system you cannot claim ownership over common words like
that.  It's not because you're big and bold that you can get away with
bullying.

So, why not use OpenStreetMapView ? It's just an extra word behind an
existing brand, almost as old as Giggle maps.
.
Glenn


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Toby Murray]

I'm guessing they are claiming trademark rights on the term "Street
View" which is not entirely unreasonable. (IANAL, etc)

Toby


On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
> Does well-know-bully-company own the word 'view' ?  I don't understand
> why you consider yielding on this.  They can ask all they want right ?
>
> Glenn
>
>
> On 08-11-16 16:34, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open
>> street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and
>> iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost 30 kilometers of
>> coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the
>> press. This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known
>> company with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView
>> name. So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I
>> wanted to ask if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
>>
>> Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping,
>>
>> Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Hakuch]

OpenStreetPic
OpenStreetPics
--> OSP

On 08.11.2016 18:05, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> OpenStreets
>
> OpenVista

guess, another big player will complain then ;)

> OpenPanorama
>



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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Hakuch]

On 08.11.2016 18:34, Glenn Plas wrote:
> I think it's definitely totally unreasonable by Giegle.

To be honest, no one would have chosen "View" if there not has been that
other tool, do you?

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Glenn Plas]

Knock yourselves out by not being able to choose:

http://www.namemesh.com/domain-name-search/open%20street%20photo?show=1

But I still think it's bullshit to claim this as it's clearly a part of
the openstreet-brand if you just put the word 'view' behind it.

I think it's definitely totally unreasonable by Giegle.

Glenn


On 08-11-16 16:34, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open
> street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and
> iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost 30 kilometers of
> coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the
> press. This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known
> company with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView
> name. So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I
> wanted to ask if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
> 
> Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping, 
> 
> Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Aun Johnsen]

Since all-evil-you-know-who have lawyers that can sue the ass off everything, 
let us look at what strictly mean the same but sounds completely different, my 
idea is FSLI, the Free Street Level Images.




Aun Johnsen


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Milo van der Linden]

'Photos for openstreetmap" abbreviated as photosm like with hotosm?

Op 8 nov. 2016 6:08 p.m. schreef "Andy Mabbett" :

> On 8 November 2016 at 15:34, Martijn van Exel  wrote:#
>
> > a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company with a
> similarly-named
> > product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name.
>
> This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no "Ford
> Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing Happy Meal". for
> example).
>
> > So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I
> wanted to ask
> > if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
>
> OpenStreets
>
> OpenVista
>
> OpenPanorama
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Andy Mabbett]

On 8 November 2016 at 15:34, Martijn van Exel  wrote:#

> a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company with a similarly-named
> product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name.

This is hardly surprising, and not unreasonable (there's no "Ford
Beetle" or "Volkswagen Mini", nor a "BurgerKing Happy Meal". for
example).

> So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to 
> ask
> if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?

OpenStreets

OpenVista

OpenPanorama

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Mike Thompson]

Libre Via Picturae  (Open Street View in Latin... as best I can tell
usingahem... Google translate)

Mike


On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 8:45 AM, Hans De Kryger 
wrote:

> Guessing that company's name rimes with frugal
>
> Regards,
> Hans
>
> On Nov 8, 2016 8:35 AM, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open
>> street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and
>> iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost 30 kilometers of
>> coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the press.
>> This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company
>> with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name. So we
>> are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to ask
>> if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
>>
>> Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping,
>>
>> Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
>>
>> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Hans De Kryger]

Guessing that company's name rimes with frugal

Regards,
Hans

On Nov 8, 2016 8:35 AM, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open street
> level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and iOS.
> Since then, we not only have collected almost 30 kilometers of
> coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the press.
> This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company
> with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name. So we
> are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to ask
> if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
>
> Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping,
>
> Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Glenn Plas]

Does well-know-bully-company own the word 'view' ?  I don't understand
why you consider yielding on this.  They can ask all they want right ?

Glenn


On 08-11-16 16:34, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open
> street level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and
> iOS. Since then, we not only have collected almost 30 kilometers of
> coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the
> press. This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known
> company with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView
> name. So we are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I
> wanted to ask if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?
> 
> Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping, 
> 
> Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 


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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetView name change

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi all,

A few months ago, we started with OpenStreetView, the free and open street
level imagery project made 100% for OSM with apps for Android and iOS.
Since then, we not only have collected almost 30 kilometers of
coverage, but also received a lot of attention from both you and the press.
This has also led to a friendly (for now) request by a well-known company
with a similarly-named product :) to not use the OpenStreetView name. So we
are looking for a new name. We have some ideas already but I wanted to ask
if you had any suggestions for a new name for OSV?

Thanks for your support and happy capturing / mapping,

Martijn + the OpenStreetView team
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[malenki]

John McKerrell wrote:

On 23 Sep 2009, at 20:16, malenki wrote:

 John McKerrell wrote:

 On 22 Sep 2009, at 17:44, malenki wrote:

 | There was an error saving your changes

 Odd, I'll take a look, can you paste the URL to the thumbnail to
 help me identify it?

 Impossible at the moment, OSV looks like this both in opera and  
 firefox:
 http://omploader.org/vMmVxeA

I *think* that's how your own user homepage looks when you haven't  
uploaded any images, just click on the OpenStreetView on the top  
left to hit the real homepage (yes, this should be renamed).

You are right (except that I have uploaded ~2k pictures. Meanwhile 376
seem to exist for the counter :) )

I wonder how I cam to Moderating loggin in before, since there is no
hint how to get there now. After all, I took the URL from the history
of th browser, but then you had fixed the bug already

 Yes, when I click Mask, even if I don't know/am not sure if there  
 has
 to be something masked. Maybe it is an option to display one file  
 after
 another at 1024x? or to show thumbnails bigger as they are now.

rasher on IRC suggested this too so I'll probably go with it when I  
get time to do it, here's the mock-up he suggested, feel free to add  
your own suggestions:
   http://osm.jonash.dk/temp/osv-mock.png

Looks good. An other view I'd like would be
http://omploader.org/vMmY0cQ I recycled the first mock-up; the
selected picture can be displayed in bigger size, of course.

 that said, we will need to allow photos of GPSes to be uploaded when
 we do server-side geotagging (i.e. uploading traces).

 Why is that? (maybe just because of my sometimes insufficient
 english..?)

Often it's a good idea to take a photo of your GPS so that you can  
accurately geotag your photos. It means that even if your camera time  
and your GPS time are out by a few seconds you can fix this by typing  
in the time shown in the photo. Actually this would probably be
useful whether we're doing server-side geotagging or not.

Understand now, thx.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[John McKerrell]

On 25 Sep 2009, at 13:58, malenki wrote:


You are right (except that I have uploaded ~2k pictures. Meanwhile 376
seem to exist for the counter :) )

I wonder how I cam to Moderating loggin in before, since there is no
hint how to get there now. After all, I took the URL from the history
of th browser, but then you had fixed the bug already

You probably used the link on the top right that shows up when there's  
images available? I'm having issues getting that to show the right  
thing, I'll have another go this weekend. For information the current  
counts are as follows, though the number that you can moderate will  
depend on whether you've already moderated the image or not (though  
the count on the website is definitely wrong at the moment).


| 1224 | available   |
|7 | error   |
|  907 | moderation  |
|   48 | processing  | --- these have failed, I'll need to  
look into that sometime, seems the resizing library doesn't like some  
JPEGs, possibly bad uploads.

|1 | unavailable |


Yes, when I click Mask, even if I don't know/am not sure if there
has
to be something masked. Maybe it is an option to display one file
after
another at 1024x? or to show thumbnails bigger as they are now.


rasher on IRC suggested this too so I'll probably go with it when I
get time to do it, here's the mock-up he suggested, feel free to add
your own suggestions:
http://osm.jonash.dk/temp/osv-mock.png


Looks good. An other view I'd like would be
http://omploader.org/vMmY0cQ I recycled the first mock-up; the
selected picture can be displayed in bigger size, of course.


Cheers, yes I suppose you could flick between the thumbnails and full  
size to make things quicker.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[malenki]

Richard Bullock wrote:

Also, I've mistakenly uploaded an image without geolocation in the
exif (I haven't pushed it towards moderation yet). Any chance we could
have the option to remove an image?

My suggestion: be able to delete the picture if it is you own or if 2
or three have marked it as unsafe.

malenki


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView - documentation?

[malenki]

Jeremy Adams wrote:

You'll find most of the documentation on the wiki at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org.

This mailing list you've posted to is the primary source of discussion.
There are other lists as well for more specific topics (newbies,
legal, etc) as well as for specific countries.

The OP wrote about OS_V_.

For the moment
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap/41813
should help

regards
malenki


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[malenki]

John McKerrell wrote:

On 22 Sep 2009, at 17:44, malenki wrote:

 It would be nice to have p...@openstreetmap.org on gmane.
I'm not actually sure what you mean by this, is it something I need
to set up for the pho...@openstreetmap.org mailing list?

This is the place where you can subscribe the ML to gmane:
http://gmane.org/subscribe.php

Regards
malenki


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[John McKerrell]

On 24 Sep 2009, at 15:51, malenki wrote:

 Richard Bullock wrote:

 Also, I've mistakenly uploaded an image without geolocation in the
 exif (I haven't pushed it towards moderation yet). Any chance we  
 could
 have the option to remove an image?

 My suggestion: be able to delete the picture if it is you own or if 2
 or three have marked it as unsafe.

Yeah, definitely being able to delete your own pictures would be  
useful. I'll probably go with what you say for unsafe, or something  
like if ( Nsafe - Nunsafe )  -3 then mark as deleted.

John

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView - documentation?

[John McKerrell]

On 24 Sep 2009, at 18:25, malenki wrote:

 Jeremy Adams wrote:

 You'll find most of the documentation on the wiki at
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org.

 This mailing list you've posted to is the primary source of  
 discussion.
 There are other lists as well for more specific topics (newbies,
 legal, etc) as well as for specific countries.

 The OP wrote about OS_V_.

 For the moment
 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap/41813
 should help

Indeed, that email is currently the only documentation really, and the  
discussions we've had here and on pho...@openstreetmap.org. I'd  
recommend using that list for bigger discussions too.

I'll add a page to the wiki for OpenStreetView and start putting some  
documentation there too.

John

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[John McKerrell]

On 23 Sep 2009, at 20:16, malenki wrote:


John McKerrell wrote:



On 22 Sep 2009, at 17:44, malenki wrote:


| There was an error saving your changes


Odd, I'll take a look, can you paste the URL to the thumbnail to help
me identify it?


Impossible at the moment, OSV looks like this both in opera and  
firefox:

http://omploader.org/vMmVxeA

I *think* that's how your own user homepage looks when you haven't  
uploaded any images, just click on the OpenStreetView on the top  
left to hit the real homepage (yes, this should be renamed).



For moderating photos:
1) It would be handy to be able to see the pictures in full
resolution since its a difference if a car with licence plate is
photographed with
a 320x240 cam of a mobile phone or with a 12MP SLR. The thumbnails
aren't much helpful there.

Currently you see the image at max 1024 width/height,


Yes, when I click Mask, even if I don't know/am not sure if there  
has
to be something masked. Maybe it is an option to display one file  
after

another at 1024x? or to show thumbnails bigger as they are now.

rasher on IRC suggested this too so I'll probably go with it when I  
get time to do it, here's the mock-up he suggested, feel free to add  
your own suggestions:

http://osm.jonash.dk/temp/osv-mock.png



that said, we will need to allow photos of GPSes to be uploaded when
we do server-side geotagging (i.e. uploading traces).


Why is that? (maybe just because of my sometimes insufficient
english..?)


Often it's a good idea to take a photo of your GPS so that you can  
accurately geotag your photos. It means that even if your camera time  
and your GPS time are out by a few seconds you can fix this by typing  
in the time shown in the photo. Actually this would probably be useful  
whether we're doing server-side geotagging or not.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[John McKerrell]

On 23 Sep 2009, at 21:27, Richard Bullock wrote:


 [still not enough :)]

 For moderating: right now I moderated several photos until I cam  
 onto a
 visible license plate. This I masked and added the tag licenceplate,
 left the masking area, clicked mark as safe and save - and then  
 an
 error showed up:
 | There was an error saving your changes

 Now moderating is stuck at this one photo, I can't go on. Marking as
 unsafe and saving the change gives no reaction of any kind.


 I've got the same issue.

 I'm stuck on an image that I wanted to add a mask to, and it said  
 the same
 thing There was an error saving your changes. I can't load any  
 more images
 to moderate whilst I've still got this one - and I can't seem to be  
 able to
 do anything at all with this image.

 Some way of being able to download more images to moderate (say, so  
 that you
 have around 10) even if you've got one left would be good here.

Yeah, I had something similar yesterday when I had images assigned to  
me for moderation but enough other people had marked them as safe so  
they had progressed and I couldn't update the status, I'm sure I  
pushed a fix for that so I'll try to have a look at your problem  
tomorrow or at the weekend, if you can post an issue on github that  
would be brilliant:

http://github.com/johnmckerrell/OpenStreetView/issues

 A couple more bugs;

 It took half an hour for my authentication e-mail to arrive. Someone  
 else on
 IRC said the same. Some others report it being instant.

This seems to be when people have greylisting on their servers, I  
should be able to make my server retry sooner though.

 Also, I've mistakenly uploaded an image without geolocation in the  
 exif (I
 haven't pushed it towards moderation yet). Any chance we could have  
 the
 option to remove an image?

Answered elsewhere but yes, would be a good idea.

 On Internet Explorer - the map fails to display on the main page.  
 Also, when
 trying to mask-sections of a photo on IE, it appears that you are  
 selecting
 something - but the mask is not blacked out - and no area is actually
 selected.

Pah, IE, but ok I'll take a look ;-)

 On Firefox, I can see the map with thumbnail images in some places.  
 I can't
 see any way of seeing larger images. Is that functionality to be  
 added, or
 is it a bug?
Yeah I don't think there's a way at the moment, you can pull out the  
KML feed though. If you feel like doing it, git is that way --

Just kidding, but really the github integration should make it really  
easy for people to get involved, no need to ask for an account, just  
clone the repository, make some changes then submit a push request.

John

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[John McKerrell]

On 22 Sep 2009, at 17:44, malenki wrote:


| There was an error saving your changes

Odd, I'll take a look, can you paste the URL to the thumbnail to help  
me identify it?



Besides there seems to be no way (atm) to edit several pictures in a
row. MArking some and clicking mask sections showed up only the
first.
Yeah, this is something I'd like in the future but haven't had chance  
to do yet, definitely something I want in the future.




It would be nice to have p...@openstreetmap.org on gmane.
I'm not actually sure what you mean by this, is it something I need to  
set up for the pho...@openstreetmap.org mailing list?


For moderating photos:
1) It would be handy to be able to see the pictures in full resolution
since its a difference if a car with licence plate is photographed  
with

a 320x240 cam of a mobile phone or with a 12MP SLR. The thumbnails
aren't much helpful there.
Currently you see the image at max 1024 width/height, that's the  
biggest that is available, I recommend that you use a judgement call  
and mask out things if there's potential for them to be visible


2) If there are just few people like me who log  photograph all day
long for OSM, soon it will be hard work moderating all the thousands  
of

pictures. At my most productive day I made 1740 of them...

Yes... we'll have to see what we can do in the future, I'd say  
automated masking with human verification might be one option.




Questions: Housenumbers would not be a privacy problem I hope?


I don't believe so, I'd say they were useful.


I quite often make photographs of the ground when the highways surface
changes, Parking place starts here, ands here - are these kind  
pictures

welcome also?

Are there kinds of pictures you would not like to see on your server?
I suppose photos of the ground might be used as part of a 3D model but  
in general if it really does just look like a bit of gravel or  
completely sky then it's probably not useful. I'd say we don't want  
indoors photos, photos that are mainly inside a car or where the GPS  
is taking up most of the picture that said, we will need to allow  
photos of GPSes to be uploaded when we do server-side geotagging (i.e.  
uploading traces).


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[malenki]

John McKerrell wrote:


On 22 Sep 2009, at 17:44, malenki wrote:

 | There was an error saving your changes

Odd, I'll take a look, can you paste the URL to the thumbnail to help  
me identify it?

Impossible at the moment, OSV looks like this both in opera and firefox:
http://omploader.org/vMmVxeA

 It would be nice to have p...@openstreetmap.org on gmane.
I'm not actually sure what you mean by this, is it something I need
to set up for the pho...@openstreetmap.org mailing list?

Gmane is a mail-2-nntp-gateway. Just ask there to do the service for
your mailing list. It is more comfortable than a ML on its own - tha
is, for quite some people. :)
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmane

 For moderating photos:
 1) It would be handy to be able to see the pictures in full
 resolution since its a difference if a car with licence plate is
 photographed with
 a 320x240 cam of a mobile phone or with a 12MP SLR. The thumbnails
 aren't much helpful there.
Currently you see the image at max 1024 width/height, 

Yes, when I click Mask, even if I don't know/am not sure if there has
to be something masked. Maybe it is an option to display one file after
another at 1024x? or to show thumbnails bigger as they are now.

that's the biggest that is available, I recommend that you use a
judgement call and mask out things if there's potential for them to be
visible

Did so after I found out.

 Are there kinds of pictures you would not like to see on your server?
I suppose photos of the ground might be used as part of a 3D model
but in general if it really does just look like a bit of gravel or  
completely sky then it's probably not useful. I'd say we don't want  
indoors photos, photos that are mainly inside a car or where the GPS  
is taking up most of the picture 

sounds reasonable

that said, we will need to allow photos of GPSes to be uploaded when
we do server-side geotagging (i.e. uploading traces).

Why is that? (maybe just because of my sometimes insufficient
english..?)

malenki


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Richard Bullock]

 [still not enough :)]

 For moderating: right now I moderated several photos until I cam onto a
 visible license plate. This I masked and added the tag licenceplate,
 left the masking area, clicked mark as safe and save - and then an
 error showed up:
 | There was an error saving your changes

 Now moderating is stuck at this one photo, I can't go on. Marking as
 unsafe and saving the change gives no reaction of any kind.


I've got the same issue.

I'm stuck on an image that I wanted to add a mask to, and it said the same 
thing There was an error saving your changes. I can't load any more images 
to moderate whilst I've still got this one - and I can't seem to be able to 
do anything at all with this image.

Some way of being able to download more images to moderate (say, so that you 
have around 10) even if you've got one left would be good here.

A couple more bugs;

It took half an hour for my authentication e-mail to arrive. Someone else on 
IRC said the same. Some others report it being instant.

Also, I've mistakenly uploaded an image without geolocation in the exif (I 
haven't pushed it towards moderation yet). Any chance we could have the 
option to remove an image?

On Internet Explorer - the map fails to display on the main page. Also, when 
trying to mask-sections of a photo on IE, it appears that you are selecting 
something - but the mask is not blacked out - and no area is actually 
selected.

On Firefox, I can see the map with thumbnail images in some places. I can't 
see any way of seeing larger images. Is that functionality to be added, or 
is it a bug?

Richard 


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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetView - documentation?

[courtland . yockey]

I've signed up at the OpenStreetView site, but it does not appear that there is 
significant documentation available, nor a method for discussion.  Could 
someone say something to this?  Perhaps this is coming in the future - it would 
be helpful to known this. --openstreetmap login = ceyockey

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView - documentation?

[Jeremy Adams]

You'll find most of the documentation on the wiki at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org.

This mailing list you've posted to is the primary source of discussion.
There are other lists as well for more specific topics (newbies, legal, etc)
as well as for specific countries.

-Jeremy

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:10 PM, courtland.yoc...@mindspring.com wrote:

 I've signed up at the OpenStreetView site, but it does not appear that
 there is significant documentation available, nor a method for discussion.
  Could someone say something to this?  Perhaps this is coming in the future
 - it would be helpful to known this. --openstreetmap login = ceyockey

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[John McKerrell]

Because I'm convinced it needs a level of moderation that would end up  
requiring that we host the photos anyway. Also flickr (for instance)  
costs money above 200 (I think) photos. I would hope that someone  
(possibly me) would write something to let you suck images in from  
flickr when the OSV API can provide for that.


On 21 Sep 2009, at 22:55, Ian Dees wrote:

This is a great idea, but why not just use Flickr or some similar  
photo site that offers an API for geotagged photos?


The only unique thing we'd need to add is a method of recording the  
orientation (X degrees from magnetic north, Y degrees inclination, Z  
degrees field of view) of the photo at a given position (if known)  
so that we can later build a StreetView-type interface for these  
images.


Such information could be stored with Flickr's API as machine tags.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 4:45 PM, John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net  
wrote:
So, after talking about my ideas for an OpenStreetView project at  
SOTM way back in July I've finally got things together enough to  
launch a site. I announced it on pho...@openstreetmap.org a few days  
ago to get some initial opininos but I think it's time to get a few  
more people looking at it. It does seem to be running a bit slow and  
I didn't have a huge amount of success with processing large numbers  
of photos earlier today but I want to get more images live on it by  
the time I give a talk about it on Thursday morning so I'll give you  
all a chance to get uploading. Please take a look at the email below  
for more instructions, it's definitely not perfect but it's  
functional for some specific uses.




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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Claudius]

Am 21.09.2009 23:45, John McKerrell:
 To try it out, head over to http://openstreetview.org/

 You'll need to sign up for an account, verify your email address and
 then log in.

The most important question for me: Why don't you use OSM's own OAuth 
infrastructure [1]? I don't feel comfortable signing up at yet another 
site and I don't want you to having to deal with keeping your user's 
data safe besides coding.

Claudius

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Oauth


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[John McKerrell]

On 22 Sep 2009, at 08:55, Claudius wrote:

 Am 21.09.2009 23:45, John McKerrell:
 To try it out, head over to http://openstreetview.org/

 You'll need to sign up for an account, verify your email address and
 then log in.

 The most important question for me: Why don't you use OSM's own OAuth
 infrastructure [1]? I don't feel comfortable signing up at yet another
 site and I don't want you to having to deal with keeping your user's
 data safe besides coding.

I could say that when I started coding this OSM's OAuth support wasn't  
actually released but the more honest answer would be that doing it  
this way was easiest and hence quickest. I wanted to get something out  
there so that we can try this out and see how it goes. If you don't  
want to enter your details that's fine and understandable. The code is  
open source and available on github so anyone can add that support but  
I'll probably do it before long if noone else does and it's stopping  
people from signing up.

John

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[malenki]

John McKerrell wrote:

[a lot about OSV]

Questions: Housenumbers would not be a privacy problem I hope?

Because of privacy, selecting the relevant pictures and rotating them I
anyway review all the pictures before I upload them.

I quite often make photographs of the ground when the highways surface
changes, Parking place starts here, ands here - are these kind pictures
welcome also?

Are there kinds of pictures you would not like to see on your server?

Regards,
malenki


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[malenki]

malenki wrote:

[not enough :)]

It would be nice to have p...@openstreetmap.org on gmane.

For moderating photos: 
1) It would be handy to be able to see the pictures in full resolution
since its a difference if a car with licence plate is photographed with
a 320x240 cam of a mobile phone or with a 12MP SLR. The thumbnails
aren't much helpful there.

2) If there are just few people like me who log  photograph all day
long for OSM, soon it will be hard work moderating all the thousands of
pictures. At my most productive day I made 1740 of them...

Regards
malenki


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[malenki]

malenki wrote:

[still not enough :)]

For moderating: right now I moderated several photos until I cam onto a
visible license plate. This I masked and added the tag licenceplate,
left the masking area, clicked mark as safe and save - and then an
error showed up:
| There was an error saving your changes

Now moderating is stuck at this one photo, I can't go on. Marking as
unsafe and saving the change gives no reaction of any kind.

Besides there seems to be no way (atm) to edit several pictures in a
row. MArking some and clicking mask sections showed up only the
first.

Regards
malenki
(I hope you don't mind me sing this thread fur bug reports.)


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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[John McKerrell]

So, after talking about my ideas for an OpenStreetView project at SOTM  
way back in July I've finally got things together enough to launch a  
site. I announced it on pho...@openstreetmap.org a few days ago to get  
some initial opininos but I think it's time to get a few more people  
looking at it. It does seem to be running a bit slow and I didn't have  
a huge amount of success with processing large numbers of photos  
earlier today but I want to get more images live on it by the time I  
give a talk about it on Thursday morning so I'll give you all a chance  
to get uploading. Please take a look at the email below for more  
instructions, it's definitely not perfect but it's functional for some  
specific uses.


Begin forwarded message:


From: John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net
Date: 20 September 2009 13:15:32 GMT+01:00
To: pho...@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-Photos] OpenStreetView
snip

I think this is the first email on this list so it's quite apt, if a
little late, for me to announce that the OpenStreetView project that I
talked about at State of the Map is finally live. It's still very
basic and only covers parts of what I talked about then but I think it
has potential.

To try it out, head over to http://openstreetview.org/

You'll need to sign up for an account, verify your email address and
then log in. Once in you will be able to upload photos either by
uploading individual files in a web form or by creating an FTP account
and FTPing files up. Obviously it would be nice to allow other
methods, they will come later.

Once you've uploaded files you'll have to wait a minute or so for them
to be processed, then you need to go to your homepage (click on your
username) where you can check the thumbnails to make sure you uploaded
the right files, then you will push the images on to moderation. You
can moderate them yourself which entails masking out any faces or
license plates or anything you think might be a privacy problem, once
you're happy click on the Mark as: Safe link and save your changes.
It will confirm you're happy marking it as safe and then hide the
images ready for you to request some more. Once three people
(potentially including you) have marked them as safe they will be made
available on the map on the front page for anyone to view, there's
also a basic KML feed. Even if you don't have files to upload it would
be useful for you to go on there anyway and moderate the photos I've
already uploaded and any that anyone else uploads.

Currently you can't geotag images within the site so you'll need to do
it before you upload, the site will read the exif headers.

snip


FYI I'll be talking about this at the AGI conference in Stratford- 
upon-

Avon in the UK this week, I'd love there to be as many photos as
possible available for viewing by then :-)

Finally, the code is all open source, I've stuck it in github to
hopefully make it really easy for people to contribute back. You can
sign up for an account for free, clone the OpenStreetView repository,
make changes and then request that I take the changes into the main
code, which I'll be happy to do. I'm really hoping this is something
that will interest people and that they will get involved in extending
the code to get some more features in. If you want to take a look, you
can find it here: http://github.com/johnmckerrell/OpenStreetView

Please take a look and let me know you're thoughts, it's pretty basic
at the moment and I'm sure there's lots of bugs, but hopefully it's
going to be of some use pretty soon.

John

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Ian Dees]

This is a great idea, but why not just use Flickr or some similar photo site
that offers an API for geotagged photos?

The only unique thing we'd need to add is a method of recording the
orientation (X degrees from magnetic north, Y degrees inclination, Z degrees
field of view) of the photo at a given position (if known) so that we can
later build a StreetView-type interface for these images.

Such information could be stored with Flickr's API as machine tags.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 4:45 PM, John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net wrote:

 So, after talking about my ideas for an OpenStreetView project at SOTM way
 back in July I've finally got things together enough to launch a site. I
 announced it on pho...@openstreetmap.org a few days ago to get some
 initial opininos but I think it's time to get a few more people looking at
 it. It does seem to be running a bit slow and I didn't have a huge amount of
 success with processing large numbers of photos earlier today but I want to
 get more images live on it by the time I give a talk about it on Thursday
 morning so I'll give you all a chance to get uploading. Please take a look
 at the email below for more instructions, it's definitely not perfect but
 it's functional for some specific uses.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Rory McCann]

On 01/05/09 15:05, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
 Google Street View got me thinking that it might be a good idea to explore 
 the possibility of an open source street view database, which could be 
 linked in with OSM.

Course what would be awesome is if Google released all there timestamped
 photos and GPS traces into a nice open licence.

Any idea why Google don't do this yet?

-- 
Rory



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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Joseph Reeves]

For the same reason that they don't release any of their data?



2009/5/13 Rory McCann r...@technomancy.org:
 On 01/05/09 15:05, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
 Google Street View got me thinking that it might be a good idea to explore
 the possibility of an open source street view database, which could be
 linked in with OSM.

 Course what would be awesome is if Google released all there timestamped
  photos and GPS traces into a nice open licence.

 Any idea why Google don't do this yet?

 --
 Rory


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Ian Dees]

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Rory McCann r...@technomancy.org wrote:

 Any idea why Google don't do this yet?


I (and some others in the OSM community) have been working with some Google
engineers on this for quite some time (1.5 yrs). There is significant
interest in opening the data, but they are having problems getting the time
to do it. I imagine the map team (those that are interested) is quite busy
as Google Maps is one of the more popular products at Google.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Ian Dees]

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.comwrote:

 For the same reason that they don't release any of their data?


This is different, though, as Google owns the StreetView data. They license
all other geographic data (street maps and aerial/satellite images).

There is significant interest in the engineering organization at Google to
expose the data they own via an API of some sort.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Rory McCann]

On 13/05/09 14:47, Ian Dees wrote:
 This is different, though, as Google owns the StreetView data. They
 license all other geographic data (street maps and aerial/satellite
 images).

Yes that's what I thought. As far as I know Yahoo licenced map data and
bought the 'you can relicence it' option, whereas Google didn't. Hence
as far as I know, Google can't legally let people use the aerial imagery
like Yahoo can.

StreetView data would be awesome to have, since it would massivly
increase the amount of information we could add. Footpaths, speedlimits,
 number of lanes, etc etc, Theses are things you can't get from aerial
imagery.




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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[John McKerrell]

On 13 May 2009, at 15:00, Rory McCann wrote:

 StreetView data would be awesome to have, since it would massivly
 increase the amount of information we could add. Footpaths,  
 speedlimits,
 number of lanes, etc etc, Theses are things you can't get from aerial
 imagery.

I imagine that even if Google made available the StreetView imagery  
or data through an API the license would still be relatively  
restrictive. Look at the license for the maps released from Google Map  
Maker for instance (non-commercial use only).

As such I think that it's still likely that many of us would want to  
create our own alternative.

Incidentally Ed Parsons has on numerous occasions and in various ways  
(I think twitter might be the only in writing way) said that it's  
probably ok to read road signs that can be seen from streetview  
imagery and things like that, so it may already be possible to do what  
we would like to be able to do for OSM.

John


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Ian Dees]

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:25 AM, John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net wrote:


 On 13 May 2009, at 15:00, Rory McCann wrote:


 StreetView data would be awesome to have, since it would massivly
 increase the amount of information we could add. Footpaths, speedlimits,
 number of lanes, etc etc, Theses are things you can't get from aerial
 imagery.


 I imagine that even if Google made available the StreetView imagery or
 data through an API the license would still be relatively restrictive. Look
 at the license for the maps released from Google Map Maker for instance
 (non-commercial use only).


The engineers I have spoken with said that they want to release it
specifically so that organizations like OSM can use it. This would infer
that the license would be open enough for OSM.


 As such I think that it's still likely that many of us would want to create
 our own alternative.


Agreed. Beyond the legal issues it's still a very technically interesting
project.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Joseph Reeves]

How does the service provided by norc.ro compare with people's desires?

http://www.norc.ro/

Cheers, Joseph



2009/5/13 Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com:
 On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:25 AM, John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net wrote:

 On 13 May 2009, at 15:00, Rory McCann wrote:

 StreetView data would be awesome to have, since it would massivly
 increase the amount of information we could add. Footpaths, speedlimits,
 number of lanes, etc etc, Theses are things you can't get from aerial
 imagery.

 I imagine that even if Google made available the StreetView imagery or
 data through an API the license would still be relatively restrictive. Look
 at the license for the maps released from Google Map Maker for instance
 (non-commercial use only).

 The engineers I have spoken with said that they want to release it
 specifically so that organizations like OSM can use it. This would infer
 that the license would be open enough for OSM.


 As such I think that it's still likely that many of us would want to
 create our own alternative.

 Agreed. Beyond the legal issues it's still a very technically interesting
 project.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[John McKerrell]

On 13 May 2009, at 16:04, Joseph Reeves wrote:

 How does the service provided by norc.ro compare with people's  
 desires?

 http://www.norc.ro/

norc.ro looks similar to Google, which is nice, but I guess the  
question is what license is the imagery available under? Also could I  
submit my own imagery if I had any available?

John

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Ciprian Talaba]

We, the Romanian OSM team (as Norc is a Romanian based service), are in
contact with the people from Norc since the launch of the project. They have
given us permission to derive from their panoramas, and also they donated
their GPS logs. We are waiting in the next few days to get a new set of
tracks from their last surveys.

More details here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/talk@openstreetmap.org/msg13354.html

--Ciprian

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 6:19 PM, John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net wrote:


 On 13 May 2009, at 16:04, Joseph Reeves wrote:

  How does the service provided by norc.ro compare with people's
  desires?
 
  http://www.norc.ro/

 norc.ro looks similar to Google, which is nice, but I guess the
 question is what license is the imagery available under? Also could I
 submit my own imagery if I had any available?

 John

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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello everyone,

Google Street View got me thinking that it might be a good idea to explore 
the possibility of an open source street view database, which could be 
linked in with OSM. The idea would be that people could take panorama 
photos of streets in their area and upload them, and so potentially 
produce an open equivalent to Street View, which could perhaps be called 
OpenStreetView. Another area which Google don't seem to be covering is 
the possibility of countryside panoramas which could allow people to 
preview a walk before they set out or potentially be used as a navigation 
tool in a mobile application.

I have put together an extremely simple facility to allow users to upload 
panoramas and view their location on a slippy map at 
http://www.openstreetview.org.uk/. (Sorry about .uk but .org, .com, .net 
appear to be already taken). There's also a blog there. It's not so much a 
working application as yet, but I thought I'd let people know so that they 
can make comments.

Nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Ian Dees]

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Nick Whitelegg
nick.whitel...@solent.ac.ukwrote:

 I have put together an extremely simple facility to allow users to upload
 panoramas and view their location on a slippy map at
 http://www.openstreetview.org.uk/. (Sorry about .uk but .org, .com, .net
 appear to be already taken). There's also a blog there. It's not so much a
 working application as yet, but I thought I'd let people know so that they
 can make comments.


I am actually on the prowl today for a USB video camera that I can plug into
the computer in my car to take images as I drive, geotag them (along with
orientation) and upload them as I go. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd
love to hear them.

Here's what I've found so far (with some help from Adam Schreiber):

-
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=enq=webcamcid=5197139896207141132sa=title#ps-sellers
- Also, my XBox 360 webcam (when plugged in to my Ubuntu box) can scale up
to 1280x...@5fps, which is almost perfect.

I'm trying to refrain from using a digital still camera for two reasons:
1. Lots of snapshots will wear out the focus/shutter mechanism
2. Controlling the camera in a reliable way is hard.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Adam Schreiber]

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote:
 See also: http://openviewproject.org/

That's really interesting.  I have an HD camcorder and wonder if
something similar could be done since the video frames are
timestamped, they could be extracted and geotagged at appropriate
intervals.

Cheers,

Adam

 From: Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com
 To: Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk
 Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 10:15:42 AM
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

 On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk
 wrote:

 I have put together an extremely simple facility to allow users to upload
 panoramas and view their location on a slippy map at
 http://www.openstreetview.org.uk/. (Sorry about .uk but .org, .com, .net
 appear to be already taken). There's also a blog there. It's not so much a
 working application as yet, but I thought I'd let people know so that they
 can make comments.

 I am actually on the prowl today for a USB video camera that I can plug into
 the computer in my car to take images as I drive, geotag them (along with
 orientation) and upload them as I go. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd
 love to hear them.

 Here's what I've found so far (with some help from Adam Schreiber):

 -
 http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=enq=webcamcid=5197139896207141132sa=title#ps-sellers
 - Also, my XBox 360 webcam (when plugged in to my Ubuntu box) can scale up
 to 1280x...@5fps, which is almost perfect.

 I'm trying to refrain from using a digital still camera for two reasons:
 1. Lots of snapshots will wear out the focus/shutter mechanism
 2. Controlling the camera in a reliable way is hard.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[John McKerrell]

Quite odd, I was mulling over submitting talks on OpenStreetView to  
SOTM and AGI conference today. I just noticed your website and thought  
I'd see if you had mentioned it on the OSM mailing list, to find that  
you had just over an hour ago. I have the openstreetview.org and .net  
domains and have been thinking about this for the past two years  
without actually getting very far on the technology side. The  
openviewproject.org site also looks quite interesting, seems there's  
lots of people considering this.


John

On 1 May 2009, at 15:59, Mikel Maron wrote:


See also: http://openviewproject.org/

From: Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com
To: Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 10:15:42 AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk 
 wrote:
I have put together an extremely simple facility to allow users to  
upload

panoramas and view their location on a slippy map at
http://www.openstreetview.org.uk/. (Sorry about .uk  
but .org, .com, .net
appear to be already taken). There's also a blog there. It's not so  
much a
working application as yet, but I thought I'd let people know so  
that they

can make comments.

I am actually on the prowl today for a USB video camera that I can  
plug into the computer in my car to take images as I drive, geotag  
them (along with orientation) and upload them as I go. If anyone has  
any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.


Here's what I've found so far (with some help from Adam Schreiber):

- 
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=enq=webcamcid=5197139896207141132sa=title#ps-sellers
- Also, my XBox 360 webcam (when plugged in to my Ubuntu box) can  
scale up to 1280x...@5fps, which is almost perfect.


I'm trying to refrain from using a digital still camera for two  
reasons:

1. Lots of snapshots will wear out the focus/shutter mechanism
2. Controlling the camera in a reliable way is hard.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[Colin Marquardt]

2009/5/1 John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net:
 Quite odd, I was mulling over submitting talks on OpenStreetView to SOTM and
 AGI conference today. I just noticed your website and thought I'd see if you
 had mentioned it on the OSM mailing list, to find that you had just over an
 hour ago. I have the openstreetview.org and .net domains and have been
 thinking about this for the past two years without actually getting very far
 on the technology side. The openviewproject.org site also looks quite
 interesting, seems there's lots of people considering this.

And then there is also http://openstreetphoto.org/ which also got a
GSoC project accepted under the hood of OSM.

Cheers
  Colin

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

[OJ W]

Would be nice if we could upload video+GPS to some site for processing
into openstreetview (yeah I know it's 2GB/hour) but it saves having to
stop and take photos.  You could always assume that the camera is a
fixed angle from the track/heading.

For anyone looking at video cameras for bikes, I just found a rather
nice gadget:

http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/at-1-wireless-helmet-cameras.htm

which is much wider-angle than the previous favourite:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Oregon-Scientific-ATC2K-ATC2000-Action

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