Yes, I'd say cooperate also.
I'm not "academic", but I feel good in this forum, but please do not revolve persistently in the same topic.
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"Okay. Please calm down everyone. This thread, even by this alternate
subject heading , has been closed."
Ditto that. And we want the personal attacks to stop as well.
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On 10/28/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Don't worry, Susan. He will always have the last word; just like his
> Prophet is the last Prophet.
I think it is fine to drop the thread. I've basically said my peace
for a while.
Peace
Gilberto
The information contained in this
Don't worry, Susan. He will always have the last word; just like his
Prophet is the last Prophet.
Warm regards,
Iskandar
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, Susan Maneck wrote:
> Look, we are dropping the thread folks.
>
> Gilberto gets to have the last word. So he gets one more post and then we
> shut the
Look, we are dropping the thread folks.
Gilberto gets to have the last word. So he gets one more post and then we
shut the thread down. No one else should be posting on it at this point.
Let's get back to the list purpose which is Baha'i Studies not Baha'i-Muslim
apologetics.
The informat
Hi, folks,
Okay. Please calm down everyone. This thread, even by this alternate subject
heading , has been closed.
Mark A. Foster, Ph.D. * Prof. of Sociology * [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Johnson County Community College, Overland Park, Kansas
913-469-8500 x3376 * Fax 913-469-2589 * VOIP 347-983-0161
Mobi
Dear Susan,
Gilberto is hell bent on misrepresenting you, Khazeh, Scott, and others.
He is not going to stop doing that. It's just totally pointless to try to
reason with him because he has left his mind and reasoning power somewhere
in the 7th century on some desert.
Iskandar
On Fri, 28 Oct 2
Another memorable post for the hall of fame of rubbish and non-sensical
comments.
Iskandar
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
> On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "How did they change? (I don't mean, "what was the change?", I mean
> > "What was the process by whi
Again, all you need to do to prove Scott wrong is to produce one (only
one) Jewish person from banu-Qurayzah. You haven't done that. You can't do
that. So, just keep quiet.
Iskandar
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
> On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Gilbert
Hi, folks,
This thread has been closed.
Mark A. Foster, Ph.D. * Prof. of Sociology * [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Johnson County Community College, Overland Park, Kansas
913-469-8500 x3376 * Fax 913-469-2589 * VOIP 347-983-0161
Mobile 913-768-4244 * http://MarkFoster.net * Office GEB 151D
The informat
Well, let's see: someone does a bank robbery somewhere. He is caught and
tried and incarcerated. I'd say that's appropriate nowadys, in this day
and age. Now, is it appropriate to cut off his hand? Gilberto avoids this
question and evades to give an answer. I think he knows that we understand
that
Gilberto is willing to hypothesize that, perhaps, the bani-Qurayzah Jews
got absorbed into other communities (but he doesn't give you any evidence
for that, of course) but he doesn't accept the fact that the banu-Qurayzah
got indeed wiped off the face of the earth. This is good.
Iskandar
On Thu,
You don't get the point, do you. Or, you just play dumb. No difference
anyhow.
One cannot prove a negative. If you want to challenge or disprove Scott's
point, all you need to do is to produce just one Jewish person from the
banu-Qurayzah tribe. That's all. If you cannot do that, then don't
chall
"Gilberto:
Ok. You and I shouldn't talk about this unless there is anything
significantly new to say."
No, I'm saying as list manager we are going to drop the entire thread.
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On 10/28/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto:
> > So I would say that to *some* degree, human beings have *some*
> > capacity to tell right from wrong, apart from a specific text.
> Hajir:
> Makes sense. But it is more than just coincidence, to Baha'is, that all of
> these
On 10/28/05, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gilberto:
> "I don't treat the Bible as one book. This argument is specific to
> certain commandments."
Susan:
> No the argument was in reference to your general position that
> unlike the Qur'an there is " alot of stuff in the Bible which isn'
Gilberto:
> So I would say that to *some* degree, human beings have *some*> capacity to tell right from wrong, apart from a specific text.Hajir:
Makes sense. But it is more than just coincidence, to Baha'is, that all of these changes in human thought (spirit of the age) took place around t
On 10/28/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto:
> How do you define "appropriate"? I would suggest we come up with some
> specific moral principles, a set of criteria which makes sense, and
> which can be applied in different situations.
> Hajir:
> This is a great idea. The
Gilberto:
How do you define "appropriate"? I would suggest we come up with somespecific moral principles, a set of criteria which makes sense, andwhich can be applied in different situations.
Hajir:
This is a great idea. The only criteria and condition that makes sense is God Himself.
Gilberto: But you *are* presuming to talk about the teachings of at least oneprophet and call them barbaric, inappropriate, genocidal, out of date.
I don't think it is presumtuous to say "Hey killing folks who areminding their own business is generally wrong" or "stealing is a badthing to do"
"I don't treat the Bible as one book. This argument is specific to
certain commandments."
No the argument was in reference to your general position that unlike the
Qur'an there is " alot of stuff in the Bible which isn't inspired and isn't
true."
"And in any case, it is not clear why you are
ar
[addressed to Scott]
> "How do you define "appropriate"? I would suggest we come up with some
> specific moral principles, a set of criteria which makes sense, and
> which can be applied in different situations."
Susan:
> We are neither prophets nor the sons of prophets that we should presume to
>
On 10/28/05, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Try to understand what I'm seeing in here. One person likened the
> actions of Muhammad to Milosevic and you are accusing Muhammad of
> genocide and comparing what was done to Banu Qurayzah (unfavorably)
> with the Holocaust."
Susan:
> We ar
"But you *are* presuming to talk about the teachings of at least one
prophet and call them barbaric, inappropriate, genocidal, out of date."
The only thing which is true of the above statement is that I did suggest it
was out of date. And I suggest that on the basis of God's new revelation.
And mo
On 10/28/05, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "How do you define "appropriate"? I would suggest we come up with some
> specific moral principles, a set of criteria which makes sense, and
> which can be applied in different situations."
>
> We are neither prophets nor the sons of prophets t
"Try to understand what I'm seeing in here. One person likened the
actions of Muhammad to Milosevic and you are accusing Muhammad of
genocide and comparing what was done to Banu Qurayzah (unfavorably)
with the Holocaust."
We are going around in circles Gilberto. The cycle runs something like this
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "How did they change? (I don't mean, "what was the change?", I mean
> "What was the process by which they changed?")"
>
> Dear Gilberto,
>
> I consider the Will of God to be the basis of all morality. That Will is
> expressed through revelation
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gilberto:
> Why is it so important to you to claim that Muhammad (saaws) wiped out
> an entire tribe?
> Please, don't ever ask me why I think you sound like an Islamophobe.
Scott:
> I am no more a hater of Islam than you are of Christians or J
"How do you define "appropriate"? I would suggest we come up with some
specific moral principles, a set of criteria which makes sense, and
which can be applied in different situations."
We are neither prophets nor the sons of prophets that we should presume to
do this.
The information conta
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In Afghanistan the courts of shar'iah routinely sentenced people to be
> stoned to death.
> Is this an appropriate sentence to this day and age?
How do you define "appropriate"? I would suggest we come up with some
specific moral principles,
That's true enough, Susan. But in many instances stoning was carried out regardless.
I think that's an example of shariah being too inflexible for modern times, its been stretched as far as it will go and the holes are beginning to gain prominence.
Regards,
ScottSusan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
" In Afghanistan the courts of shar'iah routinely sentenced people to be
stoned to death."
Dear Scott,
I would be careful with that example. There is nothing in the Qur'an that
calls for stoning, in fact the penalty for adultery mentioned there is much
less. It is hard to know what to make the co
" In 1980 an Iranian court hung a seventeen year old girl, she was arrested
when she was sixteen. Is that sufficiently old? Her crime was teaching the
Baha`i faith to Baha`i children."
There have been other executions of girls which occurred even younger. The
age at which people can be sentenced t
"I"m not
saying "today's standards" I'm talking about basic moral
considerations."
That's the point of dispute isn't it? Whether or not there is any such thing
as morality apart from the situation, place and time.
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-ma
"How did they change? (I don't mean, "what was the change?", I mean
"What was the process by which they changed?")"
Dear Gilberto,
I consider the Will of God to be the basis of all morality. That Will is
expressed through revelation. And it was revealed through Baha'u'llah that
would be no more g
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> There are no records of the numbers of European Jews who were exterminated> in the Nazi camp system - worked to death, liquidated, dead of disease, dead> of exposure, dead of brutality, dead by
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There are no records of the numbers of European Jews who were exterminated
> in the Nazi camp system - worked to death, liquidated, dead of disease, dead
> of exposure, dead of brutality, dead by mischance - whatever.
There actually are. Ther
In Afghanistan the courts of shar'iah routinely sentenced people to be stoned to death.
Is this an appropriate sentence to this day and age?
Less than fifty years ago a Saudi court ordered the beheading of a princess of the Royal house for adultery. Was this an appropriate sentence in this day
There are no records of the numbers of European Jews who were exterminated in the Nazi camp system - worked to death, liquidated, dead of disease, dead of exposure, dead of brutality, dead by mischance - whatever.
How do we know that about six million died? Because when the war was over they did
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors wrote:
> > Dear Gilberto,
> > No verse of the Qur'an says it, but a nine year old girl is an adult by
> the standards of the hadith,
Gilberto:
> Scott, I think you need
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> Dear Gilberto,> No verse of the Qur'an says it, but a nine year old girl is an adult by the> standards of the hadith,Scott, I think you need to slow down. I think you are misunderstandingthe iss
Iskandar,
Calm down.
Take a deep breath.
Count to 10.
Take another deep breath.
Count to 10.
I never said Banu Qurayzah were still around.
But Scott said they were definitely gone.
All I said is that he doesn't have a basis for saying that.
In a situation like that, the best thing is to say we do
I know one here in our campus.!
|wasn't wiped out. Wasn't wiped out, my foot. Just show me one
|person. One. Only one, and one person only.
|
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intend
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
> On 10/27/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
>
> > Just produce someone from banu-Qurayzah and end the discussion. If you
> > can't, then just say nothing.
>
> Scott is the one who claim
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Gilberto,
> No verse of the Qur'an says it, but a nine year old girl is an adult by the
> standards of the hadith,
Scott, I think you need to slow down. I think you are misunderstanding
the issue and misspeaking.
> In 1980 an Iranian
On 10/27/05, Iskandar Hai, M.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
> > I'm not going to pretend like I'm some scholarly expert. I've read
> > alot about religion but I don't want to set myself up as an authority.
> > And this might sound bad... but if you jus
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Scott:
> > Tribal warfare tends to be BRUTAL warfare.
> > Whether it be Hebrews, Arab,
> > Hutu, or whatever.
Gilberto
> How are you measuring brutality? There are larger casualties in modern
> wa
Contradictory Information regarding the Events with Banu Qurayzah...
http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=discussion&did=356
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
> On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > The outcome of wiping out the males of mature age (old enough to be capable
> > of bearing arms), then enslaving the women and children DID wipe them out
> > ethnically just as completely as
Dear Gilberto,
No verse of the Qur'an says it, but a nine year old girl is an adult by the standards of the hadith, and much shariyah is hadith-based, hadith provides much of the precedent for Islamic jurisprudence.
In 1980 an Iranian court hung a seventeen year old girl, she was arrested when sh
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tribal warfare tends to be BRUTAL warfare.> Whether it be Hebrews, Arab,> Hutu, or whatever.How are you measuring brutality? There are larger casualties in modernwars. Humans have certainly gotten more efficient at killing. Warstoday still includ
Of course the Old Testament "massacres" violated 7th century AD Islamic rules for warfare.
The time of Joshua was more than a millenia earlier. We do not even know if the Book of Joshua is history or an attempt to illuminate the covenant between God and the Israelites by use of metaphor and
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As Susan pointed out: Is it correct to hang > a nine year old girl for crimes
> in Iran today simply because Muhammed
> married one particular nine year old
> girl back then?
This is a result
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Scott:
> We get that you are trying to draw
> distinctions, but you are trying to draw
> modern distinctions and THEN paling before
> applying those same modern
> standards to the Banu Quraysh. By modern
> standards BOTH are genocidal.
I'm not
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Qurayzah, duly noted, sorry for the error.
> The treaty and its breaking provided grounds for the Muslims to make war
> with them, indeed.
Ok.
> The outcome of wiping out the males of mature age (old enough to be capable
> of bearing arms)
Qurayzah, duly noted, sorry for the error.
The treaty and its breaking provided grounds for the Muslims to make war with them, indeed.
The outcome of wiping out the males of mature age (old enough to be capable of bearing arms), then enslaving the women and children DID wipe them out ethnically j
Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"I'm sorry Susan. I was taught that "top-posting" was rude, so I try tocomment during the previous narrative, I'll try to ammend my style, If youcould quote the particular post, I'll edit it."Dear Scott,We discourage trailing but that is mostly because
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I didn't argue that point 'tooth and nail.'
> Not just you but other people in here as well."
> Gilberto, you are a assuming there is a single position being argued here in
> opposition to your own.
No I realize that there are differences
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "If Banu Qurayzah was under Muhammad's (saaws) "watch" and you believe
> Muhamad was a Manifestation of God, then even if the religion of Islam
> never existed, Bahais should have to come to terms with explaining the
> ethics and morality of su
> I didn't argue that point 'tooth and nail.'
Not just you but other people in here as well."
Gilberto, you are a assuming there is a single position being argued here in
opposition to your own. That's not the case. We all have different
perspectives. I tend to take each point by itself, whether
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Convenience of the definition isn't really the issue. Whether you call
> it "genocide" or whether you call it "picking flowers" it is still
> clear that a certain policy of killing certain nations
"I'm sorry Susan. I was taught that "top-posting" was rude, so I try to
comment during the previous narrative, I'll try to ammend my style, If you
could quote the particular post, I'll edit it."
Dear Scott,
We discourage trailing but that is mostly because we are trying to
discourage people from
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Convenience of the definition isn't really the issue. Whether you callit "genocide" or whether you call it "picking flowers" it is stillclear that a certain policy of killing certain nations is found in theJewish Torah, but that the same behavior i
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm suggesting that your basic thesis is wrong.
> What do you think my thesis is?"
> Dear Gilberto,
>
> That ethical principles and values have been constant over time.
ok.
> "If you aren't even sure if the
> Israelites received those com
Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear Scott,
I find your posts really hard to follow. Is it possible for you to put your immediate responses at the top rather than the bottom of your posts?
warmest, Susan
I'm sorry Susan. I was taught that "top-posting" was rude, so I try
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/27/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> Gilberto:> No, I'm not taking it personally. I know I didn't do it. But style of> your (collectively, not individually) seems like it is yet another> example of how on the one hand Bahais claim to a
On 10/27/05, Benjamin La Framboise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dear Gilberto,
Aside from the fact that I think we're having a virtually
> fruitless conversation here,
Yes.
Benjamin:
I just want to add that if we are going to
> include explanations of history so that we can better understand t
Dear Scott,
I find your posts
really hard to follow. Is it possible for you to put your immediate responses at
the top rather than the bottom of your posts?
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johns
> I'm suggesting that your basic thesis is wrong.
What do you think my thesis is?"
Dear Gilberto,
That ethical principles and values have been constant over time.
"If you aren't even sure if the
Israelites received those commands (which are clearly contained in
Deuteronomy) why argue tooth-and-
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> > In Biblical and in modern terms, killing all the men, taking the women as> > concubines and wives and raising the children as members of the conque
Dear Gilberto,
I really like the fact that you've provided Karen Armstrong's explanation of the account of Banu Qurayzah; I have a suggestion, though. We've long passed the line of scholarly debate and are into the realm of what seems to me purely apologetics, and under these circumstances
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "In this particular context, the way you are trying to redefine things
> is inappropriate to the larger issue. The issue of genocide came up in
> the contex of talking about how moral decisions can be made based on
> constant ethical values and
On 10/27/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto:
> No, I'm not taking it personally. I know I didn't do it. But style of
> your (collectively, not individually) seems like it is yet another
> example of how on the one hand Bahais claim to affirm Islam, > while at the
> same tim
Dear Gilberto,
Thank you for your insights and for the reminder of what the Qur'an says. I very much agree ith all that you said. Our insignificant minds can never unravel nor comprehend His Wisdom.
Your BrotherGilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/27/05, Monder M Zbaeda <[EMAIL PRO
"In this particular context, the way you are trying to redefine things
is inappropriate to the larger issue. The issue of genocide came up in
the contex of talking about how moral decisions can be made based on
constant ethical values and principles. And in that context, I said
that the Biblical ge
"If Banu Qurayzah was under Muhammad's (saaws) "watch" and you believe
Muhamad was a Manifestation of God, then even if the religion of Islam
never existed, Bahais should have to come to terms with explaining the
ethics and morality of such an action. But that's not the route Bahais
take. Instead B
On 10/27/05, Monder M Zbaeda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Gilberto,
> Salaamun 'Alaikum...
> I was reading the Qur'an today and I came across the story of Khidr and
> Musa(as) in Suratul Kahf. How would you explain the slaying of the young
> child? I would love to hear your thoughts.
> Monde
Dear Gilberto,
Salaamun 'Alaikum...
I was reading the Qur'an today and I came across the story of Khidr and Musa(as) in Suratul Kahf. How would you explain the slaying of the young child? I would love to hear your thoughts.
MonderGilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/27/05, Susan
On 10/27/05, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "They agreed on their own judge (who was not the
> prophet) and the judge declared that the men should be killed. The
> women and children were spared. It was certainly harsh. But it wasn't
> genocide."
> Dear Gilberto,
> By 'spared' you mean
Gilberto:No, I'm not taking it personally. I know I didn't do it. But style ofyour (collectively, not individually) seems like it is yet anotherexample of how on the one hand Bahais claim to affirm Islam, while atthe same time try to delegitimize it.
Hajir:
Gilberto, you're not getting the
On 10/27/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In Biblical and in modern terms, killing all the men, taking the women as
> > concubines and wives and raising the children as members of the conquering
> > tribe, certainly matches the defini
"They agreed on their own judge (who was not the
prophet) and the judge declared that the men should be killed. The
women and children were spared. It was certainly harsh. But it wasn't
genocide."
Dear Gilberto,
By 'spared' you mean the women and children were sold into slavery. In
Bosnia it was
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In Biblical and in modern terms, killing all the men, taking the women as> concubines and wives and raising the children as members of the conquering> tribe, certainly matches the definition for genocide.I'm finding myself having less and less po
> In Biblical and in modern terms, killing all the men, taking the women as
> concubines and wives and raising the children as members of the conquering
> tribe, certainly matches the definition for genocide.
I'm finding myself having less and less positive feelings about the
conversation and wher
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/26/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> So what do you make of the massacre of the Banu Qurayza?In terms of Banu Quraizah, that was a one time thing done in responseto specific actions by that tribe. They broke a treaty that they hadwit
On 10/26/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "There is no justification for genocide, for the wholesale killing of
> men, women and children of an entire ethnic group in the Quran.
> "Ordinary" warfare where you make sure not to kill non-combatants,
> where you allow the enemy to s
"There is no justification for genocide, for the wholesale killing ofmen, women and children of an entire ethnic group in the Quran."Ordinary" warfare where you make sure not to kill non-combatants,where you allow the enemy to surrender, where you cease hostilitieswhen your opponent does,
On 10/21/05, Tim Nolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Gilberto,
> To Iskandar:
> >So from that perspective, and your interpretation of the hadith,
> killing apostates is A-OK until 1843.<
> My personal view is that hadith are not authoritative, except for the ones
> quoted by Baha'h'llah or Abd
Hi Gilberto,
To Iskandar:
>So from that perspective, and your interpretation of the hadith,killing apostates is A-OK until 1843.<
My personal view is that hadith are not authoritative, except for the ones
quoted by Baha'h'llah or Abdu'l Baha. I don't know of any place in the Baha'i
writi
On 10/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In a message dated 10/19/05 10:15:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >Gilberto:
> >I see where you are coming from. But I would still label the Muslim
> >interpretation of what Muhammad taught as "Islamic principles". The
> >Bahai interp
In a message dated 10/19/05 10:15:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>Sekhmet:
>> Agreed, but please consider that they may do it with good intentions,
>> because
>> it's a loaded issue that can prompt a defensive (and not always polite)
>> reaction from Muslims.
>
>Gilberto:
>Yeah, I see that. On b
> Gilberto:> I see where you are coming from. But I would still label the Muslim> interpretation of what Muhammad taught as "Islamic principles". The> Bahai interpretation of what Muhammad (or the Bab or Bahaullah etc.)> taught would be "Bahai principles". So in that sense Bahais are> criti
On 10/19/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gilberto:
> Don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining. You know?
> Hajir:
> Hmm... what do you *really* mean by this analogy?
Are you joking around with me :)
I honestly can't tell.
> Gilberto:
> I see where you are coming from. But
Gilberto:Don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining. You know?
Hajir:
Hmm... what do you *really* mean by this analogy?
Gilberto:I see where you are coming from. But I would still label the Musliminterpretation of what Muhammad taught as "Islamic principles". TheBahai interpretation of wha
On 10/19/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In a message dated 10/18/05 1:09:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> [snipped 'cause I think we've reached mutual understanding on the first part]
> >Sekhmet:
> >> Of course we feel that some of them are now unsuitable-- the Manifestation
In a message dated 10/18/05 1:09:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[snipped 'cause I think we've reached mutual understanding on the first part]
>Sekhmet:
>> Of course we feel that some of them are now unsuitable-- the Manifestation
>of
>> God for this Day has told us so, and has provided us with su
Title: Message
'Abdu'l-Bahá then shared some humorous stories and
laughingly stated that:
Once there were three passengers on a ship: a Muslim, a
Christian and a Jew.
The Muslim prayed, 'O God, take the life of this
Christian!'
The Christian prayed, 'Lord, slay this Muslim.'
Then they
On 10/18/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have to very much agree with you on this. It is sometimes
> firmly entrenched in the way we think and communicate our
> beliefs to others.
> I had a friend, a Jew, who honestly explained to me that he had > had a Bahai
> speak of the Judai
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/18/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> I think Baha'is should publish a book like the "Bible" which> includes the> Old Testament and the New Testament under one cover.> The Baha'i version of this book would include the Old> Testament, th
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/18/05, Hajir Moghaddam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> I think Baha'is should publish a book like the "Bible" which> includes the> Old Testament and the New Testament under one cover.> The Baha'i version of this book would include the Old> Testament, th
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