You have a point. Though, I'm also a strong proponent of explaining
why little Sally down the street might not want to say hi to Bob, even
though it's totally fine in our family. I mean, it's not like kids
don't notice that other families turn up their noses at Bob.
I guess I'm saying that I don't
true. But if you are talking ideals, why even mention that other
people are afraid of him? In my opinion the sweet and condescending
stereotypes are just as toxic. Like being told in a meeting to go home
and take care of the children.
Dana
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:12:29 -0600, Deanna Schneider
<[EM
Or, just as easily - see that man over there? That's Bob. He lost his
job when the factory closed. He's nice. Some people are afraid of him,
but you shouldn't be. Want to say hi to Bob?
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:52:28 -0700, dana tierney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> see this stuffed bear? that's Padd
see this stuffed bear? that's Paddington. See that man over there?
that's someone you don't want to run into in a dark alley.
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:36:35 -0600, Deanna Schneider
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Really? How do you come up with that? I mean, they're all pretty
> innocuous names. Dang,
> good point. Yet isn't all use of language a label at some level? I
> mean... I am looking at a screen. It is blue and white. I hope it
> doesn't feel pigeonholed...
Sure. There's another story that when a student of Zen finally reached
enlightenment he burned all his books. I didn't reach enligh
Really? How do you come up with that? I mean, they're all pretty
innocuous names. Dang, I wish I could remember them. But, I know the
general feeling I got was "that's cute." I guess I don't see how
naming turns into some sort of elitist behavior.
In our house, even the poor dog has been demoted.
hmm. Not far from there to "not our kind of people" if you ask me. If
the child had named the toys himself it would be different. By the
way, my daughter calls our dog "Hayley" or more usually "puppy."
Dana
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:02:48 -0600, Deanna Schneider
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yep, all
Yep, all the toys that were animalistic or humanistic had names.
Grandma, mom and dad seem to be the namers. The kid is only 20 months,
so I'm not sure how well he gets the concept of name (Puffy) vs. word
for object (the puffer fish). *shrug*
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:53:47 -0700, dana tierney <[EMA
This reminds me of a classic:
A professor sets a jar on a table and says to his class, "this jar
represents your life." He reaches under the table and pulls out a box
of rocks and says, "these rocks represent your career." He proceeds
to put the rocks into the jar until he can't add any more and
good post honey... ;-)
>-Original Message-
>From: dana tierney
>
>
>good point. Yet isn't all use of language a label at some level? I
>mean... I am looking at a screen. It is blue and white. I hope it
>doesn't feel pigeonholed...
>
>I have dealt with enough stereotypes and been called h
Question - you are saying that your friend's child's toys all had
names? Who named them? The child, or the parent? If the parent named
the child's toys, that strikes me as over-control. But what do I know?
I call our dog "the dog" or occasionally "the damn dog."
Dana
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:33:24
good point. Yet isn't all use of language a label at some level? I
mean... I am looking at a screen. It is blue and white. I hope it
doesn't feel pigeonholed...
I have dealt with enough stereotypes and been called honey enough
times that I see the point, really. But descriptors are useful, I
think
You know, I was just thinking about this the other day. My son has all
sorts of stuffed toys and dolls and such. The duck is "duck." The baby
is "baby." The horse is "horse." Etc. I went over to a friends and
every thing there was named (not that I remember any of the names).
So, I got to thinking
> > Contrast that with Zen Buddhism that is less about controlling
> > and labelling and more about accepting things as they come.
>
> Whoa - that's good. If you'd like to expand on that, I'd like to hear
> it. It's a perspective I hadn't considered before.
*shrug* I'm just some guy. I gave up
Kevin wrote:
> Contrast that with Zen Buddhism that is less about controlling
> and labelling and more about accepting things as they come.
Whoa - that's good. If you'd like to expand on that, I'd like to hear
it. It's a perspective I hadn't considered before.
~~
> Why do you think people fall for the labels then? I would postulate
> that it's because we're all descendants of humans that grouped
> together to gather food and defend themselves. Part of that natural
> selection was humans that were wired to fall for the arbitrary "us
> good, them bad." Tha
Agreed.
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:15:29 -0600, Kevin Graeme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can of worms there, but a diagnosis is indeed different than a
> personality label.
>
> -Kevin
>
~|
Special thanks to the CF Community Suite G
Can of worms there, but a diagnosis is indeed different than a
personality label.
-Kevin
> Still, I disagree. There was a similar argument made on one of the
> homeschooling lists to the effect that children with adhd should not
> be diagnosed or treated because that would constitute "labelling"
yeah, self-fulfilling prophecy. I do think you have to be careful to
use the label as an excuse or a reason to avoid thinking
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:22:44 -0500, Larry C. Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In the research we did in our lab we had to be very careful about that
> phenomenon. Its kn
In the research we did in our lab we had to be very careful about that
phenomenon. Its known as the good subject confound. Intro psych
students (the most studied animal on earth aside from rats) want to
be very pleasing and cooperative - sort of like puppies y'know.
Accordingly they are very good
> dana wrote:
> Still, I disagree. There was a similar argument made on one of the
This is more my intuitive sense of it: Life isn't fair, you can't
treat kids or people equal because they're not, etc., etc.
Maybe, as with all things, use in moderation?
~~
Dang. Personally I always wanted to be an alpha. Just joking; of
course I recognize the reference to BNW.
Still, I disagree. There was a similar argument made on one of the
homeschooling lists to the effect that children with adhd should not
be diagnosed or treated because that would constitute "l
That experiment has been done various times in various ways. We do
categorize a lot. We are wired for it at a very low level - visually
from the optic nerves through the optic ganglia and into the visual
cortex. In fact categorization tests are one of the most reliable
indicators of closed head inj
These tests are often administered in an environment with a very
distinct power structure. In other words, if I'm at work, and we all
take some personality test, and management tells us it's important to
remember what someone's label is in order to work with them more
effeciently, well then, by god
> Kevin wrote:
> Alpha children wear grey. They work much harder than we do, because
> they're so frightfully clever. I'm awfully glad I'm a Beta, because I
> don't work so hard.
Speaking of Huxley, didn't Stanford do this exact experiment with 5
year olds? I thought they did and found that the k
> Kevin wrote:
> Thanks for making my point. Short circuit the thinking, Just refer to
> what the psych test tells us to think of each other. Wh.
>
> Oh, and to doubly refute the preconceived thought patterns: partner
> not wife. :-)
Touche! I stand corrected.
:: imitates Ed McMahon ::
YES
rofl. Excellent Brave New World quote.
larry
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 08:33:30 -0600, Kevin Graeme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yeah. I wasn't specifically singling out Gruss to rail against (sorry
> Gruss). It's just that I grew up in that environment and saw the long
> term damage it can cause. I sp
Yeah. I wasn't specifically singling out Gruss to rail against (sorry
Gruss). It's just that I grew up in that environment and saw the long
term damage it can cause. I specifically turned down a lucrative job
offer from a company that facilitated doing these personality models
for corporate "improv
Sounds more like a self fulfilling prophesy to me and expectational
set rather than any empirical data. Argument by anectdote simply
doesn't wash.
larry
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 22:32:48 -0600, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Kevin wrote:
> > I personally hate these kinds of tests. I find th
Kevin,
You've managed to encapsulate my criticisms of the MBTI exactly. What
many people forget is that these are not all or nothing - its not
binary in which you are or are not type X. Rather we score on these
things along a distribution. By trying to fit people within a type
(which BTW is so ant
> Little things that used to cause fights are gone. She'll say, "I know
> you're an ENTP so you'd like to go the party, by my ISTJ is really
> kicking in and I think we should stay home. To help fulfill your ENTP
> needs, however, how about if we ask Jane and John over?"
Thanks for making my poi
> Kevin wrote:
> I personally hate these kinds of tests. I find that people use labels
> to limit themselves and their perception of others.
Normally I'd agree with you, but in this case I can't due to empirical
data. I think the key is if both people know what their personality
types are. If th
> Thanks. I'm curious what I am. I have a 'guess' but I don't have any
> data to either confirm or reject my guess. Maybe I will eventually take
> the time to take a test.
I personally hate these kinds of tests. I find that people use labels
to limit themselves and their perception of others.
Somebody has to get the work done!
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:05:31 -0700, dana tierney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have to say... when I took the test the person administering it
> correctly diagnosed that I was an introvert who lived planning living
> with an extrovert who did not. I found that f
I have to say... when I took the test the person administering it
correctly diagnosed that I was an introvert who lived planning living
with an extrovert who did not. I found that fairly impressive,
especially since he wasn't even in the building ;)
Gruss, you don't say what you do with the INTJs.
try this too - it's a scaled down version, but it's agreed with my
result and everybody I know that's taken it.
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:10:14 -0500, Won Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gruss Gott wrote:
> > try this
> >
> > http://www.gsu.edu/~dsch
get a full psychiatric exam, might be interesting to see where you are
on a lot of things...
im going to get one soon.
tw
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:10:14 -0500, Won Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gruss Gott wrote:
> > try this
> >
> > http://www.gsu.edu/~dschjb/wwwmbti.html
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 0
Gruss Gott wrote:
> try this
>
> http://www.gsu.edu/~dschjb/wwwmbti.html
>
>
> On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:13:16 -0500, Won Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>For personality types.
>>
>>What is the difference between intuitive and sensing?
>>What is the difference between thinking and feeling?
>>Wh
try this
http://www.gsu.edu/~dschjb/wwwmbti.html
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:13:16 -0500, Won Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For personality types.
>
> What is the difference between intuitive and sensing?
> What is the difference between thinking and feeling?
> What is the difference between Perc
Deanna wrote:
> Larry,
> Did you learn nothing from this whole election debacle? No one cares
> about science or research or truth. That stuff just makes our heads
> hurt. We all want everything boiled down to a 4 letter pseudo-acronym.
> Or, better yet - a color. I'm an orange - I've no time to th
For personality types.
What is the difference between intuitive and sensing?
What is the difference between thinking and feeling?
What is the difference between Perceiving and Judging?
--
2004 - The year $184M couldn't buy a pennant.
~~~
rofl.
I keep hoping. Once in a while the good come out a head and those that
use fear and hate get royally screwed over.
larry
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:00:49 -0600, Deanna Schneider
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Larry,
> Did you learn nothing from this whole election debacle? No one cares
> about s
Larry,
Did you learn nothing from this whole election debacle? No one cares
about science or research or truth. That stuff just makes our heads
hurt. We all want everything boiled down to a 4 letter pseudo-acronym.
Or, better yet - a color. I'm an orange - I've no time to think about
this stuff! ;P
t'is isnt it.
although its funny. im VERY E when im around people i KNOW?
im VERY I when im not around people i know. so im E in familiar
situations but I when not.
tw
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 14:54:04 -0400, Angel Stewart
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm an INTJ.
>
> Surprising to find so many E-
I'm an INTJ.
Surprising to find so many E-people stuck inside an office 24/7 with a computer
doing programming.
-Gel
-Original Message-
From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
entp = me
~|
Special thanks to the
lf-redneck/half-yankee, and so is the wife. I just love cowboy boots.
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
>
> - Matt Small
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Gruss Gott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 11:45 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subjec
Original Message-
From: Gruss Gott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 11:45 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: [political] How the republicans won the elections.
> Matthew Small <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A HIGHLY proficient CF/.NET/Networking/Computer
&g
The MBTI measures an abbreviated set of personality facets that are
better assessed by such instruments as the FFI or NEO-PI. It also
doesn't take into account Openness to Experience which in my mind is
as important as Extraversion or Neuroticism.
The FFI is shorter than the Meyers-Briggs, but was
> Matthew Small <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A HIGHLY proficient CF/.NET/Networking/Computer
> Scientist/MBA/ex-Allaire/current Microsoft/all around nice guy
Holy resume batman! I'd hire a nation wide recruiter/placement
person. You should be an easy sell to hundreds of companies.
Think about p
unity
Subject: Re: [political] How the republicans won the elections.
Matthew Small wrote:
> I happen to agree with you on that as well. MS has a position they call
> "TAM" - Technical account manager. The purpose of a TAM is to be a
liaison
> between MS and an assigned compan
Suppose I score about 2 points away from the cutoff for I how does
that make me any different from a person who scores 2 points in the
opposite direction?
The research data I've seen has shown that generally the fit between
the MBTI model and job performance is not good, with correlations
typicall
Matthew Small wrote:
> I happen to agree with you on that as well. MS has a position they call
> "TAM" - Technical account manager. The purpose of a TAM is to be a liaison
> between MS and an assigned company, such as GE or Walmart. Some TAMs handle
> multiple accounts, and some companies have m
und nice guy is available
for hire in the new year. Anybody want to hire me then? I'm willing to
move almost anywhere.
- Matt Small
-Original Message-
From: Won Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 11:21 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: [political] How the
> Jerry Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> she stood up, exclaimed "I don't think I belong in this group",
> and ran for the instructors. She should have been grouped with the INFPs.
Great anecdote! Thanks.
That's consistent with what I've seen. So, while Larry is probably
right clinically (h
Matthew Small wrote:
> I've considered it, but have not taken the step to do so just yet. My ESTJ
> profile says that I highly value security, and I have to admit that's right.
> The reason I have not done sales yet is because it's a bit risky. But I
> also admit you're right - As a computer/soft
ales guy with a real
technical background, I feel that I could make a killing.
- Matt Small
-Original Message-
From: Won Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 11:01 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: [political] How the republicans won the elections.
Matthew Smal
Matthew Small wrote:
> Me = ESTJ.
>
> I often ask myself why I am a computer programmer. I'd love to be in sales.
>
> - Matt Small
Have you ever considered a career in software sales? It's very
competitive; more so know with the software sector being slow.
I think even mid-tier software shop
Me = ESTJ.
I often ask myself why I am a computer programmer. I'd love to be in sales.
- Matt Small
-Original Message-
From: Jerry Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 10:39 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: [political] How the republicans won the elec
I was talked into going to a Myers-Briggs weekend with my girlfriend a few
years ago. (Paid for by my girlfriends parents.)
I was grouped with a number of others as a ENFP. (the E is for extroverted).
Within 5 minutes, we were arguing about politics, sex, cooking, music. We were
all very comfor
Larry wrote:
> The Meyers Brigss, which btw you cannot do online - its a rephrased
> version of it, is more of an entertainment piece.
While you may be right that the Myers-Briggs is not sufficient for
clinical use, I would disagree as to its usefullness. Multiple times,
I've seen this applied to
PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 10:39 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: [political] How the republicans won the elections.
> Nick wrote:
> OK, the IQ state thing is fake btw, those numbers are pretty old, at least
> 20 if I'm not mistaken.
>
> http://www.sq.4mg.co
The Meyers Brigss, which btw you cannot do online - its a rephrased
version of it, is more of an entertainment piece. Generally it maps
fairly well to the Big Five model, but has far less predictive value.
Its more of a barnum effect. Unfortunately it has a lot of devotees
who think that its the be
Hmm..
I'm a
http://www.outofservice.com/bigfive/results/?o=88&c=21&e=9&a=87&n=32";>I'm
a O88-C21-E9-A87-N32 Big
Five!!
I don't quite understand the results though. There's no clear analysis like
there are for INTJ in the Meyers Briggs tests.
On another site htat phrased their questions differe
Let me try that link again:
http://www.outofservice.com/bigfive/results/?o=76&c=21&e=37&a=44&n=9
larry
On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 13:24:21 -0500, Larry C. Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not particularly, and I'm not sure it would be appropriate. There's a
> reason why they have a limited distributio
Not particularly, and I'm not sure it would be appropriate. There's a
reason why they have a limited distribution. Its also why I cannot
take an IQ test any more - after being trained to administer it, I
know it too well so that my scores would not reflect my intellectual
abilities.
That said ther
You know of any online personality tests for these other personality scales?
The most popular is the Meyers Briggs, you can find those on several places.
Some sites even charge for the results and analysis.
-Gel
-Original Message-
From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The found
The foundation who publish the WAIS and the WISC extremely intensive
validation of these IQ measures, typically they assess around 20,000
to 30,000 before releasing that version to psychologists and
institutions. If I remember right the correlation between SAT/ACT and
IQ is moderate to say the best
> Nick wrote:
> OK, the IQ state thing is fake btw, those numbers are pretty old, at least
> 20 if I'm not mistaken.
>
> http://www.sq.4mg.com/stateIQ-income.htm
Computing IQ based on SAT and ACT scores is faulty for many reasons.
Here are a few:
1.) It only measures people that take the test.
] How the republicans won the elections.
> Angel wrote:
> And an amusing chart on IQ levels and how the states vote.
> Probably not relevant :)
>
> http://americanassembler.com/features/iq_state_averages.htm
In my experience this is true at the individual level as well. Of the
> Sam wrote:
> That's the stupidest thing I've read in a long time.
I was telling you my observation, but I understand that that's not how
Bushies make decisions.
~|
Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosti
Hey thats sh'muel lets get it right!
-Original Message-
From: Gruss Gott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 4:46 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: [political] How the republicans won the elections.
> Sam wrote:
> I only post a lot on the slow days. Just
> Sam wrote:
> I only post a lot on the slow days. Just seems like a
> lot because I'm different :)
Every group has a guy that "keep things movin." Sam is such a fellow.
I, for one, would like to hear more from Sam.
~|
Special
I only post a lot on the slow days. Just seems like a
lot because I'm different :)
--- "Michael T. Tangorre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Sam, I swear your full time job is to post to
> cf-community.
>
>
__
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new
> From: Sam Morris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> That's the stupidest thing I've read in a long time.
>
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
> Scroll down to
> Vote by Education
> Also check vote by income. A lot of stupid people
> making a lot of stupid money
lto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 3:56 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: [political] How the republicans won the elections.
> Angel wrote:
> And an amusing chart on IQ levels and how the states vote.
> Probably not relevant :)
>
> http://americanassembler.com/featu
> William wrote:
> > We don't make up facts to insult your intelligence.
>
> No, you just make up facts to get us involved in a war
ZING!
~|
Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net
http://www.cfhost
> We don't make up facts to insult your intelligence.
No, you just make up facts to get us involved in a war
--
--
will
"If my life weren't funny, it would just be true;
and that would just be unacceptable."
- Carrie Fisher
~~~
>Sam wrote:
>
> Why are Kerry voters still trying to claim they're
> smarter?
Because they are.
Education is no measure of intelligence, reasoning is. Note that
people concerned about the economy voted for Kerry 4-to-1.
If it still doesn't make sense to you, then you must be a Bush voter :-P
That's the stupidest thing I've read in a long time.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
Scroll down to
Vote by Education
Also check vote by income. A lot of stupid people
making a lot of stupid money.
There's a few more PHD's in Kerry's camp but overall
t
> Angel wrote:
> And an amusing chart on IQ levels and how the states vote.
> Probably not relevant :)
>
> http://americanassembler.com/features/iq_state_averages.htm
In my experience this is true at the individual level as well. Of the
smart people I know there's about a 9-to-1 ratio of Kerry
http://www.moveon.org/censure/caughtonvideo/
And an amusing chart on IQ levels and how the states vote.
Probably not relevant :)
http://americanassembler.com/features/iq_state_averages.htm
-Gel
~|
Special thanks to the CF Comm
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