> A great example is Israel's invasion of Lebanon. I've been saying
> from day 1 how strategically stupid it was. The facts now bear that
> out. But that's not because I have 18 years of political commentary
> experience; any critical analyst could see that.
It wasn't strategically stupid if it
I've been critical of Israel. That's critical. I've also heard people saying
that Israel has no right to exist, that's beyond critical. If you listen to
some of the rhetoric used by those who are 'anti-Israel' and it's not
critical against a country, it's rhetoric against a people...people who
No, unless you attack her based on her race. On the other hand, attacking
Israel is not an attack on a person but an attack on a country populated to
the most part and associated in the most part with and by Jews. I'm actually
glad for some of the anti-Semitism I'm seeing in Europe from comedian
OK, what;s in the glass GG? You drinking Rumplemintz?
On 8/15/06, Gruss Gott wrote:
> > Sam wrote:
> > You're a terrorist cheerleader because any slight sign that a
> > terrorist organization is succeeding you jump up and down cheering,
> > "See I told you Bush and Israel are losers." I've never s
tton Humphrey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:21 PM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: Re: British are flamingly anti-semitic (or, according to them,
> > anti-Jewish, since most semites are muslim)
> >
> >
> > On 8/15/06, Crow T R
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: British are flamingly anti-semitic (or, according to them,
> anti-Jewish, since most semites are muslim)
>
>
> On 8/15/06, Crow T Robot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I grew up in the southern part of US and there are still si
uhhh... yeah. On this list.
On 8/15/06, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You know people who say this?
> "all Muslims are barbarians"
--
"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a
confession of their character." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
~~~
> Sam wrote:
> You're a terrorist cheerleader because any slight sign that a
> terrorist organization is succeeding you jump up and down cheering,
> "See I told you Bush and Israel are losers." I've never seen anybody
> want the good guys to lose so badly just to say they're right. You'll
> still a
So you would agree with many in the middle east that if we dislike the
actions and governance of Iran or Hamas, then we are anti-Muslim?
On 8/15/06, C. Hatton Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there a national religion of America? Canada? France? Russia?
> Cuba? No, we do not have a na
You know people who say this?
"all Muslims are barbarians"
On 8/15/06, Dana wrote:
> So it's ok to make sweeping statements based on ethnicities, just not
> religion? S... the people who say that all Muslims are barbarians,
> what does that make them?
~
So it's ok to make sweeping statements based on ethnicities, just not
religion? S... the people who say that all Muslims are barbarians,
what does that make them?
On 8/15/06, C. Hatton Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 8/15/06, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ok, so.
> >
> > If you
I think you can definitely be anti-Israel, and pro-Jewish.
If by anti-Israel, you mean anti-Israeli government policies, it is
fairly common.
If by anti-Israel, you mean anti-existance-of-the-state-of-Israel,
then that is a whole lot different and, well, that is a lot harder to
separate.
Of cour
On 8/15/06, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ok, so.
>
> If you say something critical of Israel, this makes you an
> anti-semite. However, one can criticize any other country in the
> world, on whatever basis, easy or not, and this does not make one a
> bigot. Is that what I am hearing?
Is there
n 8/15/06, Gruss Gott wrote:
> The problem with demagogues such as Rush and Hannity
You think to highly of them.
> their listeners, in my experience, have lost their ability to analyze
> events critically. Rather they favor parroting talking points or
> emotional reasoning. (this is probably tr
welp, I have seen the site in question and repeat my plea. Supposing I
am just to biased to see it... what exactly on the site is so
anti-Jewish?
As to the rest of your reply, I really can't agree, sorry. I am
neither anti nor pro either Israel or Jews. If the country or an
individual does somethi
On 8/15/06, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> really? And what about if I attack, oh, Condi Rice. Does that make me
> racist? Or do I have to attack a country for that? What if I say that it's
> about damn time the Congo had an election, what's their problem over there?
> Would that do it?
> or he
> gMoney wrote:
> In this particular debate on particulars (heh), is it more scary that Sam
> knew, or that you DIDNT know?
>
I'm not sure what that means ...
The problem with demagogues such as Rush and Hannity is that most of
their listeners, in my experience, have lost their ability to analyze
you just aren't "in the know" hehe. No telling what other valuable
information you are missing out on.
On 8/15/06, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Sam wrote:
> > He mentions it e v e r y s i n g l e d a y!
> >
>
> Ah, well, that explains why I don't know.
>
> --
"People seem not to see
> Sam wrote:
> He mentions it e v e r y s i n g l e d a y!
>
Ah, well, that explains why I don't know.
~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your pe
He mentions it e v e r y s i n g l e d a y!
On 8/15/06, Gruss Gott wrote:
>
> BTW, it's kind of scary that you know Rush has been a commentator for
> *18* years. Not 10, not 20, not even 15, but 18.
>
> It's kind of like someone telling you how old Britney Spears is down to the
> day.
Did you
I knew Rush started in 1988. Read several studies over the years that have
tracked the drastic changes in the political landscape and the affects
thereupon of conservative radio commentators.
In this particular debate on particulars (heh), is it more scary that Sam
knew, or that you DIDNT know?
well Sam, in my world it is possible to be a reputable newspaper
despite occasionally criticizing Israel's positions.
On 8/15/06, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was responding to your claiming they're a reputable paper. I never
> tried to tie anti-Israel reporting to anti-Jewish reader comment
ok, so.
If you say something critical of Israel, this makes you an
anti-semite. However, one can criticize any other country in the
world, on whatever basis, easy or not, and this does not make one a
bigot. Is that what I am hearing?
On 8/15/06, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Or that the Fren
> Sam wrote:
> 18 years of political commentary has to count for something?
Well, how long was Hitler a political commentator before he did
something with his life? I suppose Rush is a bit behind his peers ...
(thread killer!)
BTW, it's kind of scary that you know Rush has been a commentator fo
Haha, the irony :)
On 8/15/06, Dana wrote:
> enough said. I bet you have an enquiring mind too, huh.
>
> >
> > According to the ones I know and the Pew research poll
> >
~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pa
> Or that the French are COWARDS because they were intelligent enough to stay
> out of the
quagmire in Iraq?
No, because...
Nevermind, it's just too easy :)
On 8/15/06, Dana wrote:
> or hey, while you have me started, what about if I say that all of Great
> Britain is anti-Jewish, based on a b
I did find the site. But what are we talking about...seriously. I know
the original poster saw the site a couple of days ago, but. Where are
the anti-Jewish messages? Maybe I am just not Jewish enough to see
them, but I sure don't:
'People power' is a global brand owned by America
Mark Almond: Th
I was responding to your claiming they're a reputable paper. I never
tried to tie anti-Israel reporting to anti-Jewish reader comments.
That was a just a coincidence.
On 8/15/06, Dana wrote:
> Alright well... here is what I see. A group that feels that Israel is much
> maligned. More power to them
Although it sounds like they have the same satirical wit as me :)
Or lack there of? It's really something to be ashamed of. It's just
odd that most of your views can be found on these extremist blogs and
you don't read them.
On 8/15/06, Gruss Gott wrote:
> Heh, yes. The best part about it is tha
or hey, while you have me started, what about if I say that all of Great
Britain is anti-Jewish, based on a blog entry someone made? Or that the
French are cowards because they were intelligent enough to stay out of the
quagmire in Iraq? Would *that* make me a bigot?
QED.
On 8/15/06, Dana <[EMAI
Alright well... here is what I see. A group that feels that Israel is much
maligned. More power to them, but frankly I don't care enough to wade
through and verify chapter and verse. If they think it's an organized
campaign every time someone disagrees with Israel, well, their work is cut
out for t
really? And what about if I attack, oh, Condi Rice. Does that make me
racist? Or do I have to attack a country for that? What if I say that it's
about damn time the Congo had an election, what's their problem over there?
Would that do it?
On 8/15/06, C. Hatton Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> written so far is that it says the paper "delegitimizes" *Israel*
>
> Israel. Not Jews.
To say you are trying to delegitimize Israel without affecting Jews is
the same as saying you are trying to dye only the roots of your hair.
They are intimately linked.
~~
On 8/15/06, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But Hatton, there are several of us here saying that this does not
> correspond to our experience. Granted a non-jew like me is a little less
> likely to notice the less blatant stuff, in the same way as whites are more
> likely to consider discriminati
who the hell is HonestReporting? The Guardian is a mainstream paper, sort of
centrist... I think it's centrist on the left while the Telegraph is
centrist on the right, but one of the Brits may correct me on that. I am
about to look at your link but the thing that strikes me in what you have
writte
> Sam wrote:
> Funny, you posted mission accomplished to this list at least half an
> hour after sonmeone posted it on DailyKooks
> (http://dailykos.com/) I'm sure it's just a coincidence?
>
Heh, yes. The best part about it is that I have no idea what that
site is, who authors it, or anything el
enough said. I bet you have an enquiring mind too, huh.
On 8/15/06, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> According to the ones I know and the Pew research poll
>
> :P
>
> On 8/15/06, Dana wrote:
> > Sam was actually describing Rush listeners as those "in the know" not so
> > long ago wasn't he?
>
>
No, sorry.
On 8/15/06, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> terrorist cheerleader
>
> wow. Am I a terrorist cheerleader too, Sam?
>
>
~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date Col
terrorist cheerleader
wow. Am I a terrorist cheerleader too, Sam?
On 8/15/06, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Let's do this again.
> The people that aren't news fanatics might read a paper and watch the
> evening news. Chances are what they see is biased and they don't know
> any better
According to the ones I know and the Pew research poll
:P
On 8/15/06, Dana wrote:
> Sam was actually describing Rush listeners as those "in the know" not so
> long ago wasn't he?
>
~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly
Looks like I found a little bias:
http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/The_Guardians_Demonization_Campaign.asp
Within the media, nowhere has been more virulently supportive of the
campaign to demonize and delegitimize Israel than the Guardian. Adding
to its long history of an
Sam was actually describing Rush listeners as those "in the know" not so
long ago wasn't he?
On 8/15/06, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > gMoney wrote:
> > source. And if you are listening for reason 2, you know you are getting
> > spin, and therefore aren't listening to Rush to "get yo
hehe
On 8/15/06, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Sam wrote:
> > Chances are what they see is biased and they don't know
> > any better and/or don't care enough to dig deeper. The
>
> Yes, those poor people.
>
> > I like his interpretation of
> > the event because he has a deep underst
Tulia Texas is right in that neighborhood isn't it? I stumbled into town out
of a snowstorm in Amarillo once. Anyone who doesn't realize the significance
of that should google. ANd that's very very recent.
On 8/15/06, C. Hatton Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 8/15/06, Crow T Robot <[EMA
But Hatton, there are several of us here saying that this does not
correspond to our experience. Granted a non-jew like me is a little less
likely to notice the less blatant stuff, in the same way as whites are more
likely to consider discrimination against blacks to be be an issue, but it
*still*
well, you didn't provide a link, you know.
I did go look at the main site -- which is a reputable newspaper, btw -- but
did not find what you are talking about. I'm sure it is in fact there, but
is this some sort of letters to the editor section? If so, maybe the local
anti-semitic crazies just go
On 8/15/06, Gruss Gott wrote:
> Holy crap - did you just write that! Oh man, I love your posts ...
> Yes Rush's credentials in ... ok, surely his investigative ... well
> his years as a foreign ... oh yeah ... he's just a doped up sack of
> fat with really no expertise or history in anything.
>
> Sam wrote:
> Chances are what they see is biased and they don't know
> any better and/or don't care enough to dig deeper. The
Yes, those poor people.
> I like his interpretation of
> the event because he has a deep understanding of the background.
Holy crap - did you just write that! Oh man,
On 8/15/06, Gruss Gott wrote:
> For example Sam is frequently touting a Pew poll (which is odd because
> he normally dings them) saying how "informed" talk radio listeners
> are.
Pew usually skews their polls to the left. It's interesting to see
Rush and The Weekly Standard top their list. They m
On 8/15/06, Crow T Robot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I grew up in the southern part of US and there are still signs from
> > the 50's and 60's that read, " don't let the
> > sun set on your black in our town
> > tonight!"
>
> Do you have evidence of that?
Nothing photographic but I remember se
Nonetheless...Gel's point is still valid (god i hate saying that).
At some point, continued silence morphs from apathy or complacency...into
tacit approval. Whether intentional or not.
On 8/15/06, Paul Vernon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Apathy is a strange thing... Put it together with the fac
Yes.
Than you.
On 8/15/06, G Money wrote:
> I don't think you are being fair to Sam. You assume because he listens to
> Rush, that he's getting his "news" from him.
>
> Rush basically reads mainstream media news articles verbatim, then puts his
> biased spin on it. You could listen for two reaso
Let's do this again.
The people that aren't news fanatics might read a paper and watch the
evening news. Chances are what they see is biased and they don't know
any better and/or don't care enough to dig deeper. These are the
people that will say "Israel is killing innocent people in Lebanon",
when
I have seen these signs in museums, especially those dedicated to the Civil
Rights movement. I have also seen them on memorial walls to the same
period. A film crew could easily film the sign, ignoring the context, and
find some old cracker to spout racist crap and get that effect.
If the town d
> I don't buy the silent majority thing.
> If you live in that town, and that sign is in your town and
> you say nothing then:
>
> a) The 'silent' majority really isn't a majority and those
> that are against the sentiment of the sign are in a minority.
> b) You're a racist yourself.
>
Apathy
I don't buy the silent majority thing.
If you live in that town, and that sign is in your town and you say
nothing then:
a) The 'silent' majority really isn't a majority and those that are
against the sentiment of the sign are in a minority.
b) You're a racist yourself.
There is no middleground.
> *smirk*
> Not just the UK, most other democratic, developed countries
> in the world as well.
> It's utterly ludicrous to try to argue that such a sign being
> around for so long, even today, is not an indication of
> endemic racism in that township.
I wasn't arguing that... Merely outlining
*smirk*
Not just the UK, most other democratic, developed countries in the
world as well.
It's utterly ludicrous to try to argue that such a sign being around
for so long, even today, is not an indication of endemic racism in
that township.
On 8/15/06, Paul Vernon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If
> I grew up in the southern part of US and there are still signs from
> the 50's and 60's that read, " don't let the
> sun set on your black in our town
> tonight!"
Do you have evidence of that?
~|
Introducing the Fusion Autho
> gMoney wrote:
> source. And if you are listening for reason 2, you know you are getting
> spin, and therefore aren't listening to Rush to "get your news".
>
Well, Sam can speak for himself, but your assumptions are flawed.
There are many people that consider Rush's spin as the appropriate way
t
Holy crap I've lived in the south my entire life and have never seen
that.
- Matt
- Original Message -
From: "C. Hatton Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community"
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: British are flamingly anti
> I grew up in the southern part of US and there are still
> signs from the 50's and 60's that read, " blacks> don't let the sun set on your black for donkey> in our town tonight!"
>
> If a news crew filmed only that and those people that support
> that opinion, the bias would be that people in
On 8/14/06, Wayne Putterill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't know where you were (or what sort of people you were hanging out
> with), but I have never heard anything like that.
With all due respect you are a single individual and not a national
media outlet. There are anti-semites in every c
I don't think you are being fair to Sam. You assume because he listens to
Rush, that he's getting his "news" from him.
Rush basically reads mainstream media news articles verbatim, then puts his
biased spin on it. You could listen for two reasons:
1) To hear the media news articles verbatim or
2)
> gMoney wrote:
> Not NEARLY enough baseball on TV!
>
LOL, yeah that's what I thought you'd say ^_^
That's the interesting question ... you, a huge consumer of sports
media, would like more. But Sam, for example, a huge consumer of
biased media, is always complaining there's too much ...
It de
Not NEARLY enough baseball on TV!
On 8/14/06, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Dino wrote:
> > Oh, and looking where you see bias in the media is rather interesting
> and
> > telling.
>
> Bias is everywhere because it's humanly impossible not to show it.
> The point I'm making is that t
> Dino wrote:
> Oh, and looking where you see bias in the media is rather interesting and
> telling.
Bias is everywhere because it's humanly impossible not to show it.
The point I'm making is that the biggest whiners about "biased media"
are themselves the greatest consumers of it.
What's next, c
I don't know where you were (or what sort of people you were hanging out
with), but I have never heard anything like that.
On 8/14/06, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I've personally heard it several times while there. Someone actually
> said to me: "you can't trust those f'n Jews." Then I'd ha
What article is it that you take such offence to? A link would help to
understand what has given you such a distorted impression of the uk.
On 8/14/06, Skorp Croze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Did anyone look at the guardian "comment is free" site. It is pretty clear
> that:
>
> 1. they are very
t;
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Wayne Putterill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 4:21 AM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: Re: British are flamingly anti-semitic (or, according to them,
> > anti-Jewish, since most semites are mu
Did you read what I wrote? I didn't say all British or even some British are
anti-Jewish, I said that this is why I'm concerned with media manipulation
and how groups are shown. If the media shows a group as being 'evil', then
people are willing to believe it. The BBC does just that so I would n
Did anyone look at the guardian "comment is free" site. It is pretty clear that:
1. they are very vocal and unashamed
2. there are a lot of them
3. they are baffled by those who disagree, seeming to not have
encountered such a beast before.
On 8/14/06, Larry Lyons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I
>I have to say that in several years in London I never heard any anti-Jewish
>remarks either. My father, who is Scottish and lives in England, has never
>said anything of the kind to me either.
>
>On 8/14/06, Wayne Putterill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> I have to say - bullshit.
I concur, I h
I've personally heard it several times while there. Someone actually
said to me: "you can't trust those f'n Jews." Then I'd have to explain
that I'm one and they'd say "Oh, sorry".
It's OK, I'm used to it. Sometimes I like to sneak in the fact that
I'm Jewish in early to prevent the awkwardness.
Honour and Combat 18,
then tell me you don't have that in ALL over your country.
> -Original Message-
> From: Wayne Putterill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 4:21 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: British are flamingly anti-semitic (or, ac
I have to say that in several years in London I never heard any anti-Jewish
remarks either. My father, who is Scottish and lives in England, has never
said anything of the kind to me either.
On 8/14/06, Wayne Putterill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have to say - bullshit.
>
>
> Dino wrote:
> This is why I'm so worried about what I (and others) see as media bias. "If
> the media says it's ok and everyone else is doing it then why not me too".
> Yes, Gruss and others will disagree and say that people are smarter than
> that
So let's follow the logic of this thread: we ha
I have to say - bullshit.
In my 43 years of living in the UK I have never- I repeat, never heard an
anti-Semitic remark. I have worked with and for Jews, when in university
lived in the same house as a Jew, drank regularly in pubs that were owned by
Jews and I cannot ever recall it being an issue
This is why I'm so worried about what I (and others) see as media bias. "If
the media says it's ok and everyone else is doing it then why not me too".
Yes, Gruss and others will disagree and say that people are smarter than
that and not manipulated by the media but the truth is they are... WE ar
I read a piece recently that said anti-Israeli sentiment had become trendy
among the European Left. I haven't been to Europe in a couple of years, so I
can't confirm that myself, but if what is punblished in The Guardian is any
indication, that analysis is spot on.
On 8/12/06, Skorp Croze <[EMAIL
I have been forced today to read the guardian.uk website, and worse,
their "comment is free" section.
I would have to say, Michael has only given us a bare hint about the
volume and hatred and openness of the anti-jewish virulence.
Wow.
I need to go shower.
The "liberals" there are WAY worse th
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