Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Blue Ridge runs along the spine of Virginia, starting just south of here near Front Royal, VA (which is about 15 miles from West Virginia, and running to the Virginia/North Carolina border. But its mostly in the central part of VA. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Maureen wrote: > > Exactly > Th

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Its about the Shenandoah Valley, one of the loveliest places on Earth. BTW I am sure that Sam will make much of this, but we just got back from 4 days of camping in, you guess it, West Virginia! On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > Umm...the song is not about Western Virginia

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Virginia Tech, where is the West in that? On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Maureen wrote: > > In fairness to Sammy, tons of people mistake Western Virginia for West > Virginia.  John Denver even did it in a song. > > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > >> >> you're just dis

RE: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

Message- From: Sam [mailto:sammyc...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 12:15 PM To: cf-community Subject: Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim) The survey was done with firefighters and the Chicago firefighters voted for NY pizza. I think even

Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

The survey was done with firefighters and the Chicago firefighters voted for NY pizza. I think even Michelle O said it was the best pizza she ever had :P On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Eric Roberts wrote: > > I don't like hot dogs.  Yes I have had the thin piece of cheese and sauce on > a cr

RE: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 11:49 AM To: cf-community Subject: Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim) Obviuosly you never had a NY pizza. I noticed you're not defending you Vienna sausage against the world famous coney:) On Sun, Aug

Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

Obviuosly you never had a NY pizza. I noticed you're not defending you Vienna sausage against the world famous coney:) On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Eric Roberts wrote: > > Anyone who says Chicago Pizza sucks is a tasteless moron ;-) > ~~~

RE: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

Anyone who says Chicago Pizza sucks is a tasteless moron ;-) -Original Message- From: Sam [mailto:sammyc...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 11:21 AM To: cf-community Subject: Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim) Hah I hit a nerve

Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

Hah I hit a nerve. Can't take even a little criticism can you :P On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Eric Roberts wrote: > > Now I am convinced you are a complete an utter moron Sam and completely lack > any taste...a perfect republican heheheh. >

RE: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim) Chicago pizza sucks, and so do the hot dogs :P Wasn't Deliverance in Kentucky? On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > Easy for you to say, you are from Chicago - known for lots of good > stuff, like damn good pizza. > &

Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Sam wrote: > > Wasn't Deliverance in Kentucky? I believeIt was, which is why I said 'like something out of Deliverance' -- Scott Stroz --- You can make things happen, you can watch things happen or you can wonder what the f*&k happened. - Cpt. Ph

Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

Chicago pizza sucks, and so do the hot dogs :P Wasn't Deliverance in Kentucky? On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > Easy for you to say, you are from Chicago - known for lots of good > stuff, like damn good pizza. > > West Virginia is known mostly for coal mines, banjo playin

Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

t; California for all it matters.  It's a song folks...get a grip. > > -Original Message- > From: Medic [mailto:hofme...@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 10:26 AM > To: cf-community > Subject: Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On >

RE: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Either that or getting wasted in the rockies hehehe -Original Message- From: Scott Stroz [mailto:boyz...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 8:13 PM To: cf-community Subject: Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim I don't think 'Rocky Mountai

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

I don't think 'Rocky Mountain High' is about Colorado. I mean, he mentions Colorado in the song, but for the most part, the Rockies are not in Colorado. I am pretty sure the song is actually about Montana, he just took soem poetic license with the lyrics. On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 2:16 AM, Maureen

RE: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 10:26 AM To: cf-community Subject: Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim) I'm pretty sure John Denver would be rolling in his grave if he knew that his song was making people angry. On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 8:57 AM, S

Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

I'm pretty sure John Denver would be rolling in his grave if he knew that his song was making people angry. On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > I do not understand your point. What does 'for the most part, are > not in West Virginia' actually mean? The places mentioned i

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Are you really that dense? Look at a map. He did not misplace any geographical location, nor did the river move. Those places ARE in West Virginia. Its not like he is singing about the Colorado River and the Rocky Mountains being in West Virginia. NEWS FLASH - The Blue Ridge Mountains and the Sh

Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

I do not understand your point. What does 'for the most part, are not in West Virginia' actually mean? The places mentioned in the song are in West Virginia. 'For the most part', the Mississippi River is not in Louisiana, does that mean if someone wrote a song about the Mississippi River and Lo

Re: West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

The song is clearly about West Virginia. It's that songwriter used geographical features that for the most part, are not in West Virginia - unless they've been moved in the last 30 years. I'm a songwriter. Sometimes we take license with stuff like that for the sake of the song. On Fri, Aug 13,

West Virginia (Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim)

I grew up near VA Tech. We were always taught that The song was indeed about Western VA. On 8/14/2010 2:16 AM, Maureen wrote: > Yeah..you're from West Virginia alright. > > All I know is that everyone I know who actually lives near the river or the > Blue Ridge bitched for months about the so

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Yeah..you're from West Virginia alright. All I know is that everyone I know who actually lives near the river or the Blue Ridge bitched for months about the song placing those places in West Virginia instead of Western Virginia..and just because a songwriter misplaces a geographical location does

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Selectively reading, are you? Did you miss the part in my quote where it said that the guys who wrote the song changed things up to match what a friend said about West Virginia? The quote below says 'would seem more appropriate'. That just screams certainty to me. It does not say the song is not

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

You're a democrat? I was commenting on the articles that point to democrats not wanting vouchers and speculating it's because they help minorities. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Maureen wrote: > > If I didn't want education, why would I have asked for proof? > > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 1:16

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Selectively quoting there, are you? Since the sentence above the one about the road in Maryland states. "The land features mentioned prominently in the song lyrics – the Shenandoah River and the Blue Ridge Mountains

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

If I didn't want education, why would I have asked for proof? On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Sam wrote: > > The democrat's biggest fear is the education of their base. > > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > > > "Proof?" > > > > > > http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_P

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

The democrat's biggest fear is the education of their base. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "Proof?" > > > http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB123897492702491091.html > http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/04/duncans_fundamental_dishonesty.html > > The s

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

"Proof?" http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB123897492702491091.html http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/04/duncans_fundamental_dishonesty.html The second link is really nice. J - Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms those entrusted with power have, in tim

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Umm...yes I did, obviously you did not. 'Danoff and Nivert then told him about a song that they had been working on for about a month. Inspiration had come while driving to a family reunion of Nivert's relatives in nearby Maryland. To pass the time en route, Danoff had made up a ballad about the

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Exactly The first line of the song is Almost Heaven, West Virginia. The second line is Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River both of which are in western Virginia. Did you even read the link you sent? Because it explains this clearly On Fri, Aug 13

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

To be fair, West Virginia Tech would be some what of an oxymoron. DISCLAIMER: I live in West Virginia, I can poke fun. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > you're just displaying your ignorance. Let me give you a hint, > Virginia in Virginia Tech, now wouldn't that refer

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Umm...the song is not about Western Virginia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_Me_Home,_Country_Roads On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Maureen wrote: > > In fairness to Sammy, tons of people mistake Western Virginia for West > Virginia.  John Denver even did it in a song. > > On Fri, Aug 13,

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Larry loves to make fun of West Virginians yet brags about going to school 40 miles away from it. I just like to throw that back at him every once in a while. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Medic wrote: > > Speed typing. > ~

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

In fairness to Sammy, tons of people mistake Western Virginia for West Virginia. John Denver even did it in a song. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > you're just displaying your ignorance. Let me give you a hint, > Virginia in Virginia Tech, now wouldn't that refer to

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Speed typing. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > you're just displaying your ignorance. Let me give you a hint, > Virginia in Virginia Tech, now wouldn't that refer to another state. I > mean really if it were in West Virginia don't you think they would > have called it W

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Well, when I lived 40 miles from NYC I was in the NYC suburb. Using that and the fact that it's Friday logic VT is a suburb of WV :P On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > you're just displaying your ignorance. Let me give you a hint, > Virginia in Virginia Tech, now wouldn't

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

you're just displaying your ignorance. Let me give you a hint, Virginia in Virginia Tech, now wouldn't that refer to another state. I mean really if it were in West Virginia don't you think they would have called it West Virginia Tech? Get a clue. Or is your tinfoil hat on too tight again? On Fr

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > The one were Obama's department of education hid a report showing > how much success it was having? > Proof? ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.a

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

"Thing is that voucher programs rarely work." Which is different from public schools in what way? If they rarely work, that would be a great improvement over public schools and money would be saved. “The Comprehensive Longitudinal Evaluation of the Milwaukee Parental Choice Program,” released b

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:09 AM, Medic wrote: > >> >> Sounds so easy, and cheap >> > > I've been described in exactly the same way. Easy and sleazy here! Slow ride, baby, slow ride. :Den -- For a physicist mathematics is not just a tool by means of which phenomena can be calculated, it is th

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

It's a lot like Shake'n'Bake. Relatively. :Den -- "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." "The question is,"

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

> > Sounds so easy, and cheap > I've been described in exactly the same way. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archiv

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Sounds so easy, and cheap On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:54 PM, denstar wrote: > > If we want school competition, lets um, have competitions!  In school! >  Fer reals tho- with fun stuff, so the kids don't even realize they're > learning. > > Somehow I don't think the math expressed below re: vouche

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

If we want school competition, lets um, have competitions! In school! Fer reals tho- with fun stuff, so the kids don't even realize they're learning. Somehow I don't think the math expressed below re: vouchers, equals a solution. :Den -- I have had my results for a long time: but I do not yet

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

The school doesn't get the money, the state saves the money. If the state normally pays 10k, they give the kid a voucher worth 5k and they're done. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Eric Roberts wrote: > > How would schools get 5k for every student that leaves?  If they leave the > school, the

RE: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

How would schools get 5k for every student that leaves? If they leave the school, they loose the 10k for that student. -Original Message- From: Jerry Barnes [mailto:critic...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 8:30 AM To: cf-community Subject: Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Gotta love the the West Virginia suburbs On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > Virginia Tech actually. > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michae

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Sounds like the WaPo agrees the teachers unions don't care about the kids: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/22/AR2010062204487.html D.C.'s successful voucher program deserves a second life Wednesday, June 23, 2010 STUDENTS AWARDED vouchers to attend private schools in

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Thing is that voucher programs rarely work. At best they are a supplement for upper middle class and middle class students to get into private education that they would not afford otherwise. it does nothing to help the kid if they get a $5000 voucher when then the annual tuition is over 10,000. (T

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Virginia Tech actually. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Maureen wrote: > > Canada, right?  Maybe it's different there. > > On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > >> >> Strange. over half my stats courses (and all the most advanced ones) >> in grad school were taught by Educati

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

And people still needed to retake it :) On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Medic wrote: > >> >> The test consisted of questions like: >> >> I _ going to the store >> A.  am >> B.  is >> C.  was >> D.  did. >> > > Did all the questions have two right answ ~~

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

That's what they found in DC and CA yet they're stopping teh programs in those places. Go figure. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > Fixing the funding problem of schools could be easy. > > Many people preach the virtues of vouchers based on education quality. > > I say th

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

I thought NCLB only tested Math and English in 4th and 8th grades. Or something like that. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:14 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "Teaching to the test for NCLB is one of the worst things to ever happen to > the American public school system." > > You know, they have pretty mu

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

> > The test consisted of questions like: > > I _ going to the store > A. am > B. is > C. was > D. did. > Did all the questions have two right answers? ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

"No doubt a perilous situation. Next year it could be state governments in the US. California, New York, and Michigan are in terrible financial straits." Good news for those in CA. The state is about to start paying IOU's again instead of checks: We Want Our IOUs

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Fixing the funding problem of schools could be easy. Many people preach the virtues of vouchers based on education quality. I say this is the wrong approach. Voucher advocates should preach the financial benefits. If a state averages 10k per student, a 5k voucher would net the school system 5k

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

"When I was at University it was a running joke that the Education majors were the ones who couldn't pass basic math. I know that is a stereotype and not true for all, but it is true more often than not." I had to take four standardized test to become a teacher. The first two were basic knowled

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

I hated proof problemshated them, I tell you. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:14 AM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "Teaching to the test for NCLB is one of the worst things to ever happen to > the American public school system." > > You know, they have pretty much stopped teaching proofs in Geometry.  J

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

"Teaching to the test for NCLB is one of the worst things to ever happen to the American public school system." You know, they have pretty much stopped teaching proofs in Geometry. Just the elementary steps for simple ones. No in depth ones. Too hard to grade on a standardized test. That is a

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

One of the biggest issues, in my opinion, is that because of union rules, it is damn near imposible to fire a teacher because they are a bad teacher. It is going to be difficult to have any kind of meaningful reform if we can't get rid of the dead wood. On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 1:35 AM, denstar

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

I never said anything about defunding education. I meant fund as a first priority but that must include reform. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Judah McAuley wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Maureen wrote: > > > > Fund education first, but only after true reform. The current syst

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Maureen wrote: > > Two problems here: > > First, not all teachers teach...too many just hand out assignments and > babysit. > Second:  While teachers should be picked from the creme of the crop, valued > and paid accordingly, teaching is too often the default caree

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Scott Stroz wrote: ... > We have about as much hope of the 'teachers' who run the unions making > realistic change in the education system as we do congress enacting > realistic campaign reform. > > Slim to none - and Slim is packing his bags. I think it's more "o

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Maureen wrote: > > Fund education first, but only after true reform.  The current system is an > unmitigated disaster. I'm in favor of education reform, but do you think that defunding public education will help anyone ~~~

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Robert Munn wrote: > Time to bring back corporeal punishment in schools. The teachers' > unions need to get spanked - HARD. > They aren't nearly as much of a problem as the prison guard union. Fund education first, but only after true reform. The current syst

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, denstar wrote: > Maybe unions do bad things, protect bad people... but "group power" is > derived from the group, not the leaders of a group. > Time to bring back corporeal punishment in schools. The teachers' unions need to get spanked - HARD.

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Canada, right? Maybe it's different there. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > Strange. over half my stats courses (and all the most advanced ones) > in grad school were taught by Education faculty. > > On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Maureen wrote: > > > > Two problems

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Strange. over half my stats courses (and all the most advanced ones) in grad school were taught by Education faculty. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Maureen wrote: > > Two problems here: > > First, not all teachers teach...too many just hand out assignments and > babysit. > Second:  While teac

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Two problems here: First, not all teachers teach...too many just hand out assignments and babysit. Second: While teachers should be picked from the creme of the crop, valued and paid accordingly, teaching is too often the default career for those who can't cut it in harder disciplines. When I w

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 6:17 PM, denstar wrote: > > I don't know if I buy that theory.  Unions do some pretty swell stuff. >  Our local one just held a bake-sale to try to raise money to offset > the spending cuts.  ;) > > Fer reals tho-- aren't teacher unions made up of, um, teachers? > > So the

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

> > Its harder to get rid of a tenured teacher, regardless of how poor > they perform in their job than it is to get rid of herpes. That is > ridiculous. And who do I blame? For the herpes? ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthol

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Well sure... I mean, would you want to give anything up? (rhetorical question) Especially if you had a job as demanding as teaching? I blame the system, foremost-ly, for bad teachers. It alone, will make a good girl turn bad, so to speak. That's not exactly a union problem. The actual syste

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

The old "it's who you know not what you know" deal. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Cameron Childress wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 6:17 PM, denstar wrote: >> Fer reals tho-- aren't teacher unions made up of, um, teachers? >> >> So the biggest impediment to improving schools is the teache

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 6:17 PM, denstar wrote: > Fer reals tho-- aren't teacher unions made up of, um, teachers? > > So the biggest impediment to improving schools is the teachers? > > robot voice: does not compute Made up of teachers, but not run by anyone you'd equate with a "teacher". And t

RE: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

. -Original Message- From: denstar [mailto:valliants...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 6:18 PM To: cf-community Subject: Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim I don't know if I buy that theory. Unions do some pretty swell stuff. Our local one

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

I don't know if I buy that theory. Unions do some pretty swell stuff. Our local one just held a bake-sale to try to raise money to offset the spending cuts. ;) Fer reals tho-- aren't teacher unions made up of, um, teachers? So the biggest impediment to improving schools is the teachers? robo

RE: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 5:32 PM To: cf-community Subject: Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim Spending more almost never translates into better results. Look at the Los Angeles or Atlanta school systems, which have huge per pupil expenditures and

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Teaching to the test for NCLB is one of the worst things to ever happen to the American public school system. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > About the only good thing as far as I can see we got from NCLB is that > it generated a lot of data, most of it baseline with s

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Spending more almost never translates into better results. Look at the Los Angeles or Atlanta school systems, which have huge per pupil expenditures and horrible test scores and dropout rates. They also both have bloated bureaucracies and poor programs for dealing with problem children. Quality

RE: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Subject: Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim I have family and friends in NJ who are teachers and got laid off, so I understand that side of the issue. For each of these people I know, who got laid off was based on seniority. If you were there longer, regardless of how

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

About the only good thing as far as I can see we got from NCLB is that it generated a lot of data, most of it baseline with some real follow-up info. That gives a good starting point for charting real reforms. The problem with it is that it generally mandated changes but didn't mandate any funding

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

20/20 is like a supermarket tabloid. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > Here's a nice video on school. > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Very expensive bi-partition reach by Pres Bush that didn't win any love from the left anyway. he should have learned that from his dad. But to say it was a waste is incorrect. It brought the grades of minorities and mentally challenged way up. I call that a success. The rest of the students had n

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

And in NY the only way to get in is to know someone. What a scam. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > I have family and friends in NJ who are teachers and got laid off, so > I understand that side of the issue. > > For each of these people I know, who got laid off was based o

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

I am pretty sure this video is what I was referring to earlier. (I thought maybe it was an article I read, but I guess I was wrong) On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "I did not say that we spend the most. I said that if 'I remember correctly' > (see that little disclaimer

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > You do not understand, the fact is that the US is not throwing money > at a problem. If anything, these stats show its almost the opposite. > Given how little we spend on education we're getting a lot for what is > spent. So a simple over

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

"I did not say that we spend the most. I said that if 'I remember correctly' (see that little disclaimer there?) there were a lot of countries that send less but do a better job educating." Here's a nice video on school. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw ~~~

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

"Ah, because politicians are craven and get more money from the defense industry than they do poor people." Or they get more money from teacher unions than poor people. "Ah yes, the spoiled brat theory. The best time to kick someone is when they are down. They'll never learn until their const

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

You do not understand, the fact is that the US is not throwing money at a problem. If anything, these stats show its almost the opposite. Given how little we spend on education we're getting a lot for what is spent. So a simple overlay chart, average educational attainment scores by average amount

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

I have family and friends in NJ who are teachers and got laid off, so I understand that side of the issue. For each of these people I know, who got laid off was based on seniority. If you were there longer, regardless of how good of a teacher you are, you stayed. If you were a newer teacher, you

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Do you bring them to the ER or a bar? On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Judah McAuley wrote: > > you come across a drunk driver injured in an accident, there is every > reason to scold them for reckless behavior. But don't let the scolding > get in the way of stopping the bleeding and getting th

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Once more, these numbers are meaningless to my point (or to counter my point). My point was, throwing more money at the problem may not be the best solution (I would go so far as to say I do not think its the best solution). Knowing what each country spends per student (either in straight up dol

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Just piling on a bit more: http://nces.ed.gov/Pubs/eiip/eiipid43.asp On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > Also I find this set of stats very interesting: %GDP spending on education: > > http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_spe_per_pri_sch_stu-spending-per-primary-school-stu

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

I'm not arguing against education reform. State budgets are frequently whacked out in priorities (like the national budget), education reform in important, social welfare systems are not optimally designed...I can go on and on. My point was that the funds that are going to, partially, help plug th

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

Also I find this set of stats very interesting: %GDP spending on education: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_spe_per_pri_sch_stu-spending-per-primary-school-student http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_edu_spe-education-spending-of-gdp http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_spe_per_sec_sch_s

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

You also have to look at the sampling. For many of these international tests, only select groups (i.e., for many countries those bound for university or other higher ed programs) take these tests. If you did a similar comparison with US students in the same situation e.g., IB or AP programs, you'l

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

I did not say that we spend the most. I said that if 'I remember correctly' (see that little disclaimer there?) there were a lot of countries that send less but do a better job educating. Just showing what countries spend is only half the data. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Larry C. Lyons wr

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

I'd like to see the stats for that. According to UNESCO the US is #36 on per capita spending on primary school students (i.e., K-6). Most of the EU, Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc., spend more or the same as the US per student. So lets try another myth. http://www.nationmaster.com

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

The cost of farm subsides would more than cover the school lunch programs. And way too much of the current education budget is going to highly paid management rather than to teachers. But the current political system lives on media bites and scapegoating, and has no desire to really solve the p

Re: Piling On: Economists Call Obama On Universal Backing Claim

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Judah McAuley wrote: > Ah yes, the spoiled brat theory. The best time to kick someone is when > they are down. They'll never learn until their constituents are > starving in the street. Well, actually, they already are and the > politicians aren't learning. So l

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