Carroll Kong wrote:
>>
> However, in terms of sensible fairness, I do not see how having
> years
> of "production experience" is going to mean crap if you utilize
> it
> improperly or got little out of it. (think of the guy who
> calls TAC
> every other day, and now thinks that the config regi
Carroll Kong wrote:
>
> I liked Howard's idea, however, yes it is not scalable, but
> would
> improve the quality. My other post suggested, Cisco has not
> shown
> any real attempt to make it that much harder, they do want more
> CCIEs
> out there. If that is what they want, nothing we do will
>
douglas mizell wrote:
>
> Jeez,
>
> That is ridiculous, the program is run by Cisco, a
> private
> corporation. It is not a government entity and requiring those
> types of
> prerequisites makes no sense.
Well, to use that line of thought, why not just go all the way? Why require
Carroll Kong wrote:
> >
> > Look, first of all, I'm obviously not endorsing that anybody
> with x years of
> > experience are automatically handed a ccie number. They
> would still have to
> > pass the test just like anybody else.
>
> I trimmed down some of my extra fluff in the quote, sorry, ju
Mark E. Hayes wrote:
>
> No, I don't expect anything but a paycheck at the end of a pay
> period.
> Are you worried your employees may read this?
Hence the use of anonymous email.
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71504&t=70953
--
>
> But then the next problem is "how many years" of experience is
> considered valid?
>
> Honestly, I do not think the number of years of experience
> means that
> much a fair number of the time. Why? Well, it depends on the
> "quality" of the experience, in my book.
>
> Advanced troublesho
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
>
> Oh, but I thought "corporate management can never be wrong."
I never said that. Corporate management can indeed be wrong - but not for
long. Slowly but eventually, the free market adjusts.
For example, right now, what if Harvard all of a sudden got really easy -
eas
David Vital wrote:
My frame of reference
> must just be so dramatically different from a lot of the
> other's here. I don't understand what all the griping is
> about. I read a quote in an article the other day that just
> rings totally true to me. "Nobody is worth $200,000 a year.
> NOBODY. " I
>
> Back in the days when baseball was understood to be the
> ultimate expression
> of American values, this may have been true. Take each
> individual and weigh
> his/her strengths and weaknesses, consider the overall value of
> heir
> contribution, and decide on that basis. These days, when
> fo
\> >
>
> I just don't believe that you can not
> find a job if you are experienced and certified. It might not
> be your dream job. it might not pay as much as you thought you
> would be making now. And it might require you to relocate.
> But there are jobs out there.
The issue is not findi
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
>
> The consensus among all corporate managers that I have dealt
> with is that
> CCIEs cannot obtain their status with at least some real
> experience. That
> is the consensus. Don't shoot me for it.
\
Those corporate managers are wrong. They may want to look up the ter
Mark E. Hayes wrote:
>
> Ok Sen. McCarthy,
>
> Your response is Bolshevik, get it? ;) All I'm talking about is
> taking
> care of people who took care of you. As an employee I have an
> obligation
> to do x amount of work. I always do more than that, it's a
> pride thing.
> I want the business I
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
>
> >
> CCIEs with some experience are considered to have "college
> equivalent
> experience and training" as it pertains to technical know-how,
> knowledge
> that has proven to be crucial in the survival of a few
> companies that I have
> worked in. The companies did not
Xy Hien Le wrote:
>
> dear n rf,
>
> area you still in networking business, and are you a CCIE?
> Just curious :)
> Xy
It's more fun to remain anonymous. ;-)
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.
Carroll Kong wrote:
>
>
> Even NRF has mentioned diversity is the key,
"Even" me, eh? Ouch.
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71321&t=71143
--
FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.c
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
>
> That is anecdotal nonsense. Any major corporation in need of
> real techs and
> that has a Cisco infrastructure will certainly consider CCIEs
> very
> seriously, yes even above so-called "CS" degree holders without
> much
> experience, for technical lead positions. I c
douglas mizell wrote:
> not. I honestly cannot comment on the job market at home except
> to say it
> sounds dismal, if there really are CCIE's out there fighting
> over $35K jobs
> than to hell with this whole idea, open a taco stand.
>
Which is why a growing number of them are leaving the indus
Duy Nguyen wrote:
>
> If it comes down to money. Why not increase the rate? I've
> remember when
> the price for exam was only a G. When they decided to raise
> the price,
> peeps start to mumbleed and grumbleed how the test was getting
> so expensive,
> but that didn't stop peeps from taking t
- jvd wrote:
>
> I wonder if anybody is going to have anything positive to say
> about this post?
So basically, you want us to lie, eh? ;->.
Seriously, CCIE salaries have been down for awhile and any honest discussion
about salaries is going to be necessarily negative. When something's black
Duy Nguyen wrote:
>
> Would it be a good idea to make the CCIE Lab adaptive? 1st,
> everyone will
> try a screener test of overall technologies. Once you have
> finished, they
> will give you a lab book that they believe are more challenging
> to you. How
> many lab books do they have, maybe a
Mark E. Hayes wrote:
>
> The way I see it, which judging by the responses is wrong, you
> start a
> business by doing what you know how to do. I can't start a
> business
> making paper because I have no clue how to do that. A big
> corporation
> can do that by simply buying another company out. B
Carroll Kong wrote:
>
> > > be more prone to some form of bootcamp brain dumpage. But
> this
> > > is
> > > not really conclusive. It might just be that, the CCIE is
> > > becoming
> > > "more popular" and people have recently tapped into this
> > > market. The
> > > drop in Cisco gear pricing o
MADMAN wrote:
>
> n The same was true of my 2-day
> > test, again, I had done everything on both days by
> mid-afternoon and I just
> > sat around with nothing to do but check my work over and over
> again.
>
>Hmm, when I took the lab you were done configuring at noon
> on the
> second day a
ess
> conferences
> from CEOs stating they rescinded their stock options, bonuses,
> or raises
> when times got tough.
Well, some did. Notably John Chambers, who cut his salary to $1.
>Nope, they usually outsource and cut the
> jobs of
> the people who are trying to m
Mark E. Hayes wrote:
>
> Ok n rf... I will admit before I go any farther, this is a rant
> ;)
>
> You have hit the nail on the head. The one that puts me over
> the top. I
> am going to refer back to my first rant over CCIE numbers.
> hehehe. The
> part where Corpor
>
> A lot of them aren't guys. They are women. In a lot of
> countries (certainly not all but a lot) there's way less
> prejudice against women being in high-tech. Of more importance,
> there aren't assumptions made in primary (elementary) and
> secondary (high school) that girls are "bad at math.
>
> The dark side is that technology changes, and has a way of
> becoming more
> appliance like, meaning that what as skilled labor yesterday is
> out of the
> box tomorrow. Thin about it. All you folks who are AVVID
> experts and
> therefore in high demand. How long before AVVID is nothing more
>
Carroll Kong wrote:
>
> > Those three have pretty much echoed my themes. Hansang, in
> fact, has
> > admitted that he accelerated his ccie studies so that he
> would take (and
> > pass) the 2-day exam because he didn't want to run the risk
> of being known
> > as an "asterisk-ccie" (meaning the o
Vikram JeetSingh wrote:
>
> OK...
>
>
> My dear friend, NRF, over here is fired up and ready to go on
> anyone, who
> responds on this thread. :)
>
>
> Nothing personal, but you did mentioned, or rather gave a lot
> of stress on
> maintaining crime-less life (I am not able to understand the
>
Vikram JeetSingh wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I was stopping myself for writing on this thread for quite some
> time. Quite
> a number of people have reverted back on this, but this one,
> (from Peter) is
> just kind of PERFECT. Priscilla also wrote on one of other
> threads, that for
> having a worthw
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
>
> [NRF] Uh, no the free market responds by giving preference to
> certain
> well-known
> elite colleges. Everybody knows that not every bachelor's
> degree is born
> the same. Some are far more valuable than others. Goldman
> Sachs will send
> recruiters to Harvard, but
Look, guys, the bottom line is this. The fact is, it is more desirable to
have a lower-number ccie than it is to have a higher-number. I believe that
this is so because the test was more rigorous in the past than it is today,
but even if you don't believe this to be the case, you have to acknowle
Rajagopal Iyengar wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> I would like to add that as long as you are a CCIE its
> irrelevant becuase
> you are among the few who has that Internetworking Expert tag
> with you.Even
> though there are a lot of Boot camps & lots of resources that
> are available
> for you to gain
Craig Columbus wrote:
> passing from October 2002 to present. The most recent number
> I've seen is
> 11757. Which, averages about 170 people per month.
> Extrapolating to
> October, the number of people passing from Oct 2002 to Oct 2003
> should turn
> out to be around 2044. My conclusion th
Mark W. Odette II wrote:
>
> Robert, the way you described your hiring/screening process is
> the way I
> wished all Corporate America job providers did it.
>
> It's nice to know that at least one business out there doesn't
> hide
> behind an HR group that isn't prepared to perform the screening
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
>
> [NRF] In this thread, I have attacked what has happened to the
> CCIE lately.
> Not
> the CCIE in general, just what has happened to it lately. This
> is a
>
> [JN] Your overall approach has a pattern to it, and your
> response ironically
> reenforces the notion. The
Mark E. Hayes wrote:
>
> hehehe!!! Well done. I enjoyed that retort. I have to admit
> that I did
> not know there were lab bootcamps. All of the bootcamps I have
> seen are
> for the written test. How much does a CCIE lab bootcamp run? I
> earned my
> MCSE and CCNA fair and square, even though, I
Steve Wilson wrote:
>
> Thank you gents,
> I have come to the conclusion that Jack and NRF is one and the
> same person.
> Anyone who has seen, or read, "Fight Club" will recognise the
> symptoms. Any
> minute now NRF will shoot himself through the mouth and end it
> all.
I think I really am goin
>Jack Nalbandian wrote:
Boy, for a guy who says that he wants to close the thread, you really have a
lot to say.
>
> 1. Attacking his motives and attacking his character are
> mutually exclusive
> endeavors. I attack his motive of defaming the certification
> process itself
> in a series of dif
Mark E. Hayes wrote:
>
> I don't know why I am doing this but I am... As far as trading
> in
> numbers goes-
> It doesn't make a difference to me if I am #1100 or #11000. I
> am only a
> CCNA now and
> working on my NP. I feel the reason for the headhunters and HR
> types to
> value a lower numb
John Neiberger wrote:
>
> >>>> The Road Goes Ever On
> 6/9/03 3:14:32
> PM >>>
> >""n rf"" wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> The Road Goes Ever On wrote:
> >> >
> >snip for brevety
&g
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Perhaps your bias is based on the intrinsic value of longevity,
> of
> experience, associated with the lower number. You tell me.
>
> Another poster, Craig Columbus
> [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> pointed out market forces, to which I find no objection,
> however spe
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
>
> My friend NRF (what is your name anyhow?),
>
> Others have expressed concern, true, and most of them are
> legitimate. You
> mentioned that the MCSE was thought of as a means to get "easy
> money" from a
> relatively naive market faced with the new "IT" dimension.
>
>
ever
they can find it. If a smarmy headhunter says jump, they ask "how high and
how many times?"
>
> Enough said...
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "The Road Goes Ever On"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 7:19 PM
> Subjec
Mark W. Odette II wrote:
>
> Here's a question for those recruiters, headhunters and HR
> People- Out of CCIE 1025-, how many of them do you think
> are still actively with the program, still working in the
> industry, still are at the top of their game (i.e., could go
> back in and take the O
The Road Goes Ever On wrote:
>
> some comments are meant in good fun, others are of more serious
> source. pray
> do not take offense, as none is intended.
>
> ""n rf"" wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sigh. I knew this was going
garrett allen wrote:
>
> the intent of this list is to discuss preparation cisco exams,
> not
> opportunities in the various job markets. if your comments
> don't
> relate to the study blueprint in some meaninful way, please
> keep them
> to yourself.
First of all, keep in mind that I didn't sta
garrett allen wrote:
>
> yawn.
Bored?
I don't want to be overly confrontational, but if you really thought this
thread was so boring that you're yawning, then why did you bother to make a
rebuttal to me in the first place? The fact that you did obviously means
that you don't think it's THAT bor
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
>
> This constant blare of prejudicial bias in favor of "college
> ed" and to the
> definite disfavor of "certification" seems to come most
> intensely from your
> address. The undertext is always the same: "Go to college."
Woah, now there's something that completely came
Howard C. Berkowitz wrote:
>
> I commend people to remember the tale of the Emperor's New
> Clothes here.
>
> It utterly confounds me that people are focusing on the CCIE
> number
> as the discriminator for a hiring decision, "lower being
> better."
I'm just telling you what I've seen. I think a
>Man,
>I never see a job post specify that certain CCIE number is prefer.
I have, many times. For example, just check out the archives at
groupstudy.jobs.
>Why did you even bother to ask this question in the beginning, if >you
think
>the value of CCIE title has drop.
Huh? I didn
Sigh. I knew this was going to happen.
Gentlemen, this is why I posted such a long response, because I wanted you
all to be honest with yourselves. I could have just said what I had to say
straight-up, without any explanation, but I felt (and obviously with a lot
of justification) that I neede
Fernando Saldana del C wrote:
>
> Dear n fr,
>
> Which CCIE number are you ?
What does it matter what my CCIE number is? How does that affect the
validity of my statements? Either what Im saying is either true or it
isnt, who I am has nothing to do with anything. Why cant people debate
just
The Road Goes Ever On wrote:
>
> ""n rf"" wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Well, there are still less than 10,000 CCIE's. So the
> population hasn't
> > accelerated THAT dramatically.
> >
> > Having said that, I wil
ecruiter giving preference to higher-number
CCIE. It's always one-way, and that's my point.
>
> threads like this are like discussing the maximum number of
> angels
> dancing on the head of a pin. i vote we kill the thread before
> it
> spawn.
>
> later.
>
>
Well, there are still less than 10,000 CCIE's. So the population hasn't
accelerated THAT dramatically.
Having said that, I will say that the CCIE has most likely gotten less
rigorous and therefore less valuable over time. I know this is going to
greatly annoy some people when I say this, but the
Howard C. Berkowitz wrote:
>
>
> Another aspect that hasn't been discussed is the whole area of
> other
> skill sets, other than perhaps server skills and general
> management
> (MBA-ish). Now, I'll challenge the assumption of some people
> that say
> they don't want to be engineers and haul box
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
>
> I still seem to be unable to get across the central point. It
> does not
> matter what is more potent or more reliable than the other.
> The point is
> that neither should be either undervalued or overvalued by way
> of unfair
> propaganda and preconceptions.
>
> I ha
Jack, I would submit the following 2 points:
First off, the fact is, college is on the whole proven to be a significantly
more useful indicator of success than any cert.
Think of Cisco itself. You would think that if any company knew the value
of the CCIE program, it would be Cisco itself. Yet
> Yes, but it is the case for enough folks that it has started to
> cheapen the
> certs, just as grade inflation has damaged many universities.
> (For example,
> Stanford may be more prestigious than Berkeley, but at Stanford
> you can drop
> a class up to the day of the final. At Berkeley the de
do it with 3600,
> 3810
> or 2600, but you need a special VIC card, see here:
> http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/rt/3600/prodlit/c36p_ds.htm
> Take care, this is for "voice" connections not for data.
>
> Regards!
>
> RF wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody k
Does anybody know of any router or router module/blade that can act as the
network (telco) side of ISDN BRI? I know that in the latest IOS, you can do
"isdn protocol-emulate network" for PRI, but what about BRI?
Thanx
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=4365&t=43
Anybody here ever try to install CiscoSecure ACS on Solaris on an Intel box?
I asked a related question before, when apparently the installation couldn't
find java for some reason, even though java was on the system (and in the
PATH and all that). I solved this problem by just manually creating a
Yes, for lab purposes, it is the same
""Brad Steinman"" wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Some people have mentioned specifically that there's a Cat3920 in lab
test.
> Not having used one before, is the Cat3900 equivalent to the 3920 - at
least
> for the purposes
Hey all:
Wonder if anybody can help me with this problem:
I got a 2610 with, apparently, an unformatted flash.
For example, when I boot it, I get this:
System Bootstrap, Version 11.3(2)XA4, RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1999 by cisco Systems, Inc.
TAC:Home:SW:IOS:Specials for info
C2600
Hi all:
Do any of you know of a good telco simulator that can do PRI and/or T-1 CAS
that won't completely bust my lab budget? I'm looking for anything that
will work - a PBX with network-side PRI interface may be OK.
Thanx
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=397
I'm trying to install an eval copy of CiscoSecure ACS 2.3(5) onto Solaris 8
on Intel. I successfully get the package from Cisco, use their eval key,
unzip/untar it, transfer the package (using pkgtrans) to /tmp, and then try
to install it using pkgadd.
I successfully get into the opening install
Hi all:
Still looking to upgrade my routers on the cheap, wondering if anybody knows
any of the following. Once again, I should state that none of my routers
will ever be in a production environment, so I am not worried about blowing
any warranty or Smartnet contract or anything like that.
1) C
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