[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-24 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
Hi ! Feedback from devs ... they are ok to work for FProxy using jetty/Wickets. We are ready to help devs from a git rep. We just need a first stub. GWT would be another project especially for download management (but this is not the top priority) So ok for Wickets+jetty. Templating would be the

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-24 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
Hi ! Feedback from devs ... they are ok to work for FProxy using jetty/Wickets. We are ready to help devs from a git rep. We just need a first stub. GWT would be another project especially for download management (but this is not the top priority) So ok for Wickets+jetty. Templating would be the

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-18 Thread Ian Clarke
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 3:21 AM, Nicolas Hernandez < nicolas.hernandez at aleph-networks.com> wrote: > i don't know ... if we can forget Velocity i am happy :-). I don't know if > for Freenet devs, Velocity is still a Pre-requisies. > I don't think Velocity was ever a prerequisite. The only prer

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-18 Thread Ian Clarke
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 3:21 AM, Nicolas Hernandez < nicolas.hernan...@aleph-networks.com> wrote: > i don't know ... if we can forget Velocity i am happy :-). I don't know if > for Freenet devs, Velocity is still a Pre-requisies. > I don't think Velocity was ever a prerequisite. The only prerequ

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-17 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
i don't know ... if we can forget Velocity i am happy :-). I don't know if for Freenet devs, Velocity is still a Pre-requisies. we have started a POC about GWT components. The goal is to demonstrate the use of GWT as component - in a standard jsp/Servlet environment - with wickets ?! - with non-js

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-17 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
i don't know ... if we can forget Velocity i am happy :-). I don't know if for Freenet devs, Velocity is still a Pre-requisies. we have started a POC about GWT components. The goal is to demonstrate the use of GWT as component - in a standard jsp/Servlet environment - with wickets ?! - with non-js

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-13 Thread Ian Clarke
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 6:01 AM, Pouyan Zachar wrote: > Wicket + Velocity is a excellent solution > > Doesn't Wicket include its own templating engine, which is just an extension of XHTML? Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: ian at freenetproject.org -- next par

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-13 Thread Ian Clarke
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 6:01 AM, Pouyan Zachar wrote: > Wicket + Velocity is a excellent solution > > Doesn't Wicket include its own templating engine, which is just an extension of XHTML? Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org _

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-13 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Donnerstag, 12. April 2012, 14:48:08 schrieb Nicolas Hernandez: > Yes i know. But we are working about accessibility for > developpers too ! > > >- Velocity for templating >- html+jsp for site rendering >- gwt+nonjs for components and components rendering How does havin

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-12 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Donnerstag, 12. April 2012, 14:48:08 schrieb Nicolas Hernandez: > Yes i know. But we are working about accessibility for > developpers too ! > > >- Velocity for templating >- html+jsp for site rendering >- gwt+nonjs for components and components rendering How does havin

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-12 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
- Nicolas Hernandez > * >> Concerning GWT*: >> *If all devs and the leader of http://goo.gl/QhPVD are ok to use GWT *we >> can consider rewriting FProxy using GWT components. >> We can use GWT as a pool of components only. >> -> Using Velocity for templating (if needed). >> -> using jsp like pages

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-12 Thread Pouyan Zachar
Hi! On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Nicolas Hernandez < nicolas.hernandez at aleph-networks.com> wrote: > Hello, > *First of all*; > >- http://goo.gl/kOEAU >- http://goo.gl/QhPVD > > Are ok for me, the only reason i prefer going to gwt is the team. It is > easier to find dev using GWT th

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-12 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
- Nicolas Hernandez > * >> Concerning GWT*: >> *If all devs and the leader of http://goo.gl/QhPVD are ok to use GWT *we >> can consider rewriting FProxy using GWT components. >> We can use GWT as a pool of components only. >> -> Using Velocity for templating (if needed). >> -> using jsp like pages

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-04-12 Thread Pouyan Zachar
Hi! On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Nicolas Hernandez < nicolas.hernan...@aleph-networks.com> wrote: > Hello, > *First of all*; > >- http://goo.gl/kOEAU >- http://goo.gl/QhPVD > > Are ok for me, the only reason i prefer going to gwt is the team. It is > easier to find dev using GWT than

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-15 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Tuesday 13 Mar 2012 02:54:47 Steve Dougherty wrote: > I very much like this idea! Presenting a single page with choices, > especially when the final button is "Finish and connect now" is a > superb way to speed up the first run setup. The current use of > multiple pages without even a progress b

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-15 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Tuesday 13 Mar 2012 02:54:47 Steve Dougherty wrote: > I very much like this idea! Presenting a single page with choices, > especially when the final button is "Finish and connect now" is a > superb way to speed up the first run setup. The current use of > multiple pages without even a progress b

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-13 Thread Ian Clarke
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > Last time I asked, just about everyone actively using FMS who commented on > the matter was of the view that for Freenet to *require* javascript would > be utterly unacceptable. > Yes, when you ask people "how would you feel about being

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-13 Thread Ian Clarke
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > Last time I asked, just about everyone actively using FMS who commented on > the matter was of the view that for Freenet to *require* javascript would > be utterly unacceptable. > Yes, when you ask people "how would you feel about being

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-12 Thread Steve Dougherty
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I very much like this idea! Presenting a single page with choices, especially when the final button is "Finish and connect now" is a superb way to speed up the first run setup. The current use of multiple pages without even a progress bar puts more pre

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-12 Thread Steve Dougherty
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I very much like this idea! Presenting a single page with choices, especially when the final button is "Finish and connect now" is a superb way to speed up the first run setup. The current use of multiple pages without even a progress bar puts more pre

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-11 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Freitag, 9. M?rz 2012, 21:52:22 schrieb Steve Dougherty: > Should we get rid of more of the steps in the first-run setup? I think yes - if people choose the default installation, they should not be forced to take additional decisions. Maybe it would even be possible to just show a pane ?Basi

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-11 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Freitag, 9. März 2012, 21:52:22 schrieb Steve Dougherty: > Should we get rid of more of the steps in the first-run setup? I think yes - if people choose the default installation, they should not be forced to take additional decisions. Maybe it would even be possible to just show a pane “Basic

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-10 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Freitag, 9. M?rz 2012, 23:59:30 schrieb Arne Babenhauserheide: > Am Mittwoch, 7. M?rz 2012, 15:29:45 schrieb Ian Clarke: > > > So what is the experience of new users? Install freenet, see automaticly > > > shipped wot+freetalk, try them, see their issues, maybe browse some > > > sites and uninst

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Saturday 10 Mar 2012 02:54:15 Steve Dougherty wrote: > Should we get rid of more of the steps in the first-run setup? Asking > about datastore size is a must, but perhaps we can get away with > something like what I2P does where it assumes a very low bandwidth limit > and encourages users to rai

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-10 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Freitag, 9. März 2012, 23:59:30 schrieb Arne Babenhauserheide: > Am Mittwoch, 7. März 2012, 15:29:45 schrieb Ian Clarke: > > > So what is the experience of new users? Install freenet, see automaticly > > > shipped wot+freetalk, try them, see their issues, maybe browse some > > > sites and uninst

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-10 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Saturday 10 Mar 2012 02:54:15 Steve Dougherty wrote: > Should we get rid of more of the steps in the first-run setup? Asking > about datastore size is a must, but perhaps we can get away with > something like what I2P does where it assumes a very low bandwidth limit > and encourages users to rai

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-10 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Freitag, 9. M?rz 2012, 23:14:04 schrieb Matthew Toseland: > On Friday 09 Mar 2012 23:02:49 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > > Am Mittwoch, 7. M?rz 2012, 22:14:39 schrieb Thomas Sachau: > > > So what is the experience of new users? Install freenet, see automaticly > > > shipped wot+freetalk, try th

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-10 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Mittwoch, 7. M?rz 2012, 22:14:39 schrieb Thomas Sachau: > So what is the experience of new users? Install freenet, see automaticly > shipped wot+freetalk, try them, see their issues, maybe browse some > sites and uninstall freenet again, since things either do rarely work or > there is no conten

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Mittwoch, 7. M?rz 2012, 15:29:45 schrieb Ian Clarke: > > So what is the experience of new users? Install freenet, see automaticly > > shipped wot+freetalk, try them, see their issues, maybe browse some > > sites and uninstall freenet again, since things either do rarely work or > > there is no c

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Friday 09 Mar 2012 23:02:49 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 7. M?rz 2012, 22:14:39 schrieb Thomas Sachau: > > So what is the experience of new users? Install freenet, see automaticly > > shipped wot+freetalk, try them, see their issues, maybe browse some > > sites and uninstall freen

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Mittwoch, 7. M?rz 2012, 13:40:56 schrieb Ian Clarke: > Yes, the vast number of people that refuse to use anything but Lynx? There > is RMS, who are the other ones? So far as I know RMS doesn't use Freenet > so we don't have to worry about him. I regularly browse freenet with a raw text interf

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Steve Dougherty
Should we get rid of more of the steps in the first-run setup? Asking about datastore size is a must, but perhaps we can get away with something like what I2P does where it assumes a very low bandwidth limit and encourages users to raise it afterwards. This could work well alongside requiring a 5Ki

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Steve Dougherty
Should we get rid of more of the steps in the first-run setup? Asking about datastore size is a must, but perhaps we can get away with something like what I2P does where it assumes a very low bandwidth limit and encourages users to raise it afterwards. This could work well alongside requiring a 5Ki

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 16:23:49 Nicolas Hernandez wrote: > Hello Ian, > > We are still looking for the best choice between running in jetty > a. Accessibility for devs (nice eclipse plugin for example) Important but not absolutely vital. E.g. a fair bit happens with the current UI in spite of

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 21:19:38 Nicolas Hernandez wrote: > rendering: > it is important to differentiate the Redenderer and the Controller. > GWT can be used: > - as a Controler > - as Renderer Please explain briefly controller vs renderer? Is this Model/View/Controller you are talking about,

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 19:40:56 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Matthew Toseland > wrote: > > > On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 17:18:54 Ian Clarke wrote: > > > Unless those freenet devs are willing to build the GUI themselves, I > > > recommend that you do not allow them to prevent

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 20:09:51 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > > > One reason to not use pre-compiled stuff is, that you can patch or > > adjust the code before you compile it. In addition, only those patches > > have a chance to go upstream, probably

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 21:29:45 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > > > Ian Clarke schrieb: > > Do you really think, that having some nice javascript or otherwise > > adjusted interface would magically raise the numbers of users? > > I think having a nice

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Freitag, 9. März 2012, 23:14:04 schrieb Matthew Toseland: > On Friday 09 Mar 2012 23:02:49 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > > Am Mittwoch, 7. März 2012, 22:14:39 schrieb Thomas Sachau: > > > So what is the experience of new users? Install freenet, see automaticly > > > shipped wot+freetalk, try th

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Friday 09 Mar 2012 23:02:49 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 7. März 2012, 22:14:39 schrieb Thomas Sachau: > > So what is the experience of new users? Install freenet, see automaticly > > shipped wot+freetalk, try them, see their issues, maybe browse some > > sites and uninstall freen

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Mittwoch, 7. März 2012, 22:14:39 schrieb Thomas Sachau: > So what is the experience of new users? Install freenet, see automaticly > shipped wot+freetalk, try them, see their issues, maybe browse some > sites and uninstall freenet again, since things either do rarely work or > there is no conten

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Mittwoch, 7. März 2012, 15:29:45 schrieb Ian Clarke: > > So what is the experience of new users? Install freenet, see automaticly > > shipped wot+freetalk, try them, see their issues, maybe browse some > > sites and uninstall freenet again, since things either do rarely work or > > there is no c

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide
Am Mittwoch, 7. März 2012, 13:40:56 schrieb Ian Clarke: > Yes, the vast number of people that refuse to use anything but Lynx? There > is RMS, who are the other ones? So far as I know RMS doesn't use Freenet > so we don't have to worry about him. I regularly browse freenet with a raw text interf

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 16:23:49 Nicolas Hernandez wrote: > Hello Ian, > > We are still looking for the best choice between running in jetty > a. Accessibility for devs (nice eclipse plugin for example) Important but not absolutely vital. E.g. a fair bit happens with the current UI in spite of

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 21:19:38 Nicolas Hernandez wrote: > rendering: > it is important to differentiate the Redenderer and the Controller. > GWT can be used: > - as a Controler > - as Renderer Please explain briefly controller vs renderer? Is this Model/View/Controller you are talking about,

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 19:40:56 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Matthew Toseland > wrote: > > > On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 17:18:54 Ian Clarke wrote: > > > Unless those freenet devs are willing to build the GUI themselves, I > > > recommend that you do not allow them to prevent

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 20:09:51 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > > > One reason to not use pre-compiled stuff is, that you can patch or > > adjust the code before you compile it. In addition, only those patches > > have a chance to go upstream, probably

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-09 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 21:29:45 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > > > Ian Clarke schrieb: > > Do you really think, that having some nice javascript or otherwise > > adjusted interface would magically raise the numbers of users? > > I think having a nice

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-08 Thread Florent Daigniere
On Wed, Mar 07, 2012 at 05:23:49PM +0100, Nicolas Hernandez wrote: > Hello Ian, > > We are still looking for the best choice between running in jetty > a. Accessibility for devs (nice eclipse plugin for example) > b. Accessibility for user > c. Light weight > d. Performance > > In our side the pr

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-08 Thread Florent Daigniere
On Wed, Mar 07, 2012 at 05:23:49PM +0100, Nicolas Hernandez wrote: > Hello Ian, > > We are still looking for the best choice between running in jetty > a. Accessibility for devs (nice eclipse plugin for example) > b. Accessibility for user > c. Light weight > d. Performance > > In our side the pr

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
rendering: it is important to differentiate the Redenderer and the Controller. GWT can be used: - as a Controler - as Renderer as Renderer gwt can offer a - MinimalHtmlRenderer Interface for admin and simple actions - Web2Renderer - AndroidRender ? In this case the interface templates could be

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Thomas Sachau
Ian Clarke schrieb: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > >> One reason to not use pre-compiled stuff is, that you can patch or >> adjust the code before you compile it. In addition, only those patches >> have a chance to go upstream, probably noone will accept a patch against

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Thomas Sachau
Ian Clarke schrieb: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > >> I dont contribute code as a freenet dev, but i do package it for Gentoo >> linux and from that perspective, i have to strongly vote against gwt. >> That thing is a big beast with many included external libs, often ev

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 17:18:54 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Nicolas Hernandez < > nicolas.hernandez at aleph-networks.com> wrote: > > > In our side the priority are like that a>b>d>c (+eclipse plugin) > > Four some freenet devs it loks like c>d>a>b (+velocity for templat

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 19:17:42 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > > > I dont contribute code as a freenet dev, but i do package it for Gentoo > > linux and from that perspective, i have to strongly vote against gwt. > > That thing is a big beast with ma

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 17:55:57 Thomas Sachau wrote: > Nicolas Hernandez schrieb: > > Hello Ian, > > > > We are still looking for the best choice between running in jetty > > a. Accessibility for devs (nice eclipse plugin for example) > > b. Accessibility for user > > c. Light weight > > d. Perf

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Thomas Sachau
Nicolas Hernandez schrieb: > Hello Ian, > > We are still looking for the best choice between running in jetty > a. Accessibility for devs (nice eclipse plugin for example) > b. Accessibility for user > c. Light weight > d. Performance > > In our side the priority are like that a>b>d>c (+eclipse p

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
Thanks a lot Ian, We try to federate the maximum of devs ... but the dev start (the core project) in 2 months. Just the time to take the decision and write the firsts docs. And we don't have time to wait a lot about that ... so this project starts anyway :-) ... and hope for a finished soon proje

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Zlatin Balevsky
Just want to add JRuby to the list. Rails has lots of fans and third-party tools and it's under active development and supposedly on java 1.7 it runs faster than the C implementation. On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Nicolas Hernandez < nicolas.hernandez at aleph-networks.com> wrote: > Hello Ian

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
Hello Ian, We are still looking for the best choice between running in jetty a. Accessibility for devs (nice eclipse plugin for example) b. Accessibility for user c. Light weight d. Performance In our side the priority are like that a>b>d>c (+eclipse plugin) Four some freenet devs it loks like c>

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Ian Clarke
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > Ian Clarke schrieb: > Do you really think, that having some nice javascript or otherwise > adjusted interface would magically raise the numbers of users? > I think having a nice, well defined user interface will raise the number of users, ye

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Zlatin Balevsky
Just want to add JRuby to the list. Rails has lots of fans and third-party tools and it's under active development and supposedly on java 1.7 it runs faster than the C implementation. On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Nicolas Hernandez < nicolas.hernan...@aleph-networks.com> wrote: > Hello Ian, >

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Ian Clarke
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > One reason to not use pre-compiled stuff is, that you can patch or > adjust the code before you compile it. In addition, only those patches > have a chance to go upstream, probably noone will accept a patch against > the generated javascript

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Tom Elovi Spruce
User experience and user interfaces go hand and hand. I believe Thomas is addressing issues he sees with the user experience of Freenet. If you're updating the interface to improve the user experience, it's a worthwhile investment. However, mainly putting effort into updating the visuals of an

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Tom Elovi Spruce
User experience and user interfaces go hand and hand. I believe Thomas is addressing issues he sees with the user experience of Freenet. If you're updating the interface to improve the user experience, it's a worthwhile investment. However, mainly putting effort into updating the visuals of an

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Ian Clarke
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 17:18:54 Ian Clarke wrote: > > Unless those freenet devs are willing to build the GUI themselves, I > > recommend that you do not allow them to prevent you from proceeding. > > Someone willing to make things happen

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Ian Clarke
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > Ian Clarke schrieb: > Do you really think, that having some nice javascript or otherwise > adjusted interface would magically raise the numbers of users? > I think having a nice, well defined user interface will raise the number of users, ye

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
rendering: it is important to differentiate the Redenderer and the Controller. GWT can be used: - as a Controler - as Renderer as Renderer gwt can offer a - MinimalHtmlRenderer Interface for admin and simple actions - Web2Renderer - AndroidRender ? In this case the interface templates could be

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Ian Clarke
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > I dont contribute code as a freenet dev, but i do package it for Gentoo > linux and from that perspective, i have to strongly vote against gwt. > That thing is a big beast with many included external libs, often even > modified ones and a co

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Thomas Sachau
Ian Clarke schrieb: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > >> One reason to not use pre-compiled stuff is, that you can patch or >> adjust the code before you compile it. In addition, only those patches >> have a chance to go upstream, probably noone will accept a patch against

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Ian Clarke
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > One reason to not use pre-compiled stuff is, that you can patch or > adjust the code before you compile it. In addition, only those patches > have a chance to go upstream, probably noone will accept a patch against > the generated javascript

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Thomas Sachau
Ian Clarke schrieb: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > >> I dont contribute code as a freenet dev, but i do package it for Gentoo >> linux and from that perspective, i have to strongly vote against gwt. >> That thing is a big beast with many included external libs, often ev

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Ian Clarke
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 17:18:54 Ian Clarke wrote: > > Unless those freenet devs are willing to build the GUI themselves, I > > recommend that you do not allow them to prevent you from proceeding. > > Someone willing to make things happen

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 17:18:54 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Nicolas Hernandez < > nicolas.hernan...@aleph-networks.com> wrote: > > > In our side the priority are like that a>b>d>c (+eclipse plugin) > > Four some freenet devs it loks like c>d>a>b (+velocity for templating

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 19:17:42 Ian Clarke wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > > > I dont contribute code as a freenet dev, but i do package it for Gentoo > > linux and from that perspective, i have to strongly vote against gwt. > > That thing is a big beast with ma

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 07 Mar 2012 17:55:57 Thomas Sachau wrote: > Nicolas Hernandez schrieb: > > Hello Ian, > > > > We are still looking for the best choice between running in jetty > > a. Accessibility for devs (nice eclipse plugin for example) > > b. Accessibility for user > > c. Light weight > > d. Perf

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Ian Clarke
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Nicolas Hernandez < nicolas.hernandez at aleph-networks.com> wrote: > In our side the priority are like that a>b>d>c (+eclipse plugin) > Four some freenet devs it loks like c>d>a>b (+velocity for templating) > Unless those freenet devs are willing to build the GUI

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Ian Clarke
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote: > I dont contribute code as a freenet dev, but i do package it for Gentoo > linux and from that perspective, i have to strongly vote against gwt. > That thing is a big beast with many included external libs, often even > modified ones and a co

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Thomas Sachau
Nicolas Hernandez schrieb: > Hello Ian, > > We are still looking for the best choice between running in jetty > a. Accessibility for devs (nice eclipse plugin for example) > b. Accessibility for user > c. Light weight > d. Performance > > In our side the priority are like that a>b>d>c (+eclipse p

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
Thanks a lot Ian, We try to federate the maximum of devs ... but the dev start (the core project) in 2 months. Just the time to take the decision and write the firsts docs. And we don't have time to wait a lot about that ... so this project starts anyway :-) ... and hope for a finished soon proje

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Ian Clarke
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Nicolas Hernandez < nicolas.hernan...@aleph-networks.com> wrote: > In our side the priority are like that a>b>d>c (+eclipse plugin) > Four some freenet devs it loks like c>d>a>b (+velocity for templating) > Unless those freenet devs are willing to build the GUI th

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Ian Clarke
Hi Nicolas, Did you ever make any progress on this? Ian. On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Nicolas Hernandez < nicolas.hernandez at aleph-networks.com> wrote: > Hello, > > This is a sort of personnal introduction: > > We want to work on freenet accessibility. The first step could be the > webui

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
Hello Ian, We are still looking for the best choice between running in jetty a. Accessibility for devs (nice eclipse plugin for example) b. Accessibility for user c. Light weight d. Performance In our side the priority are like that a>b>d>c (+eclipse plugin) Four some freenet devs it loks like c>

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-03-07 Thread Ian Clarke
Hi Nicolas, Did you ever make any progress on this? Ian. On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Nicolas Hernandez < nicolas.hernan...@aleph-networks.com> wrote: > Hello, > > This is a sort of personnal introduction: > > We want to work on freenet accessibility. The first step could be the > webui. I

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-02-23 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 22 Feb 2012 14:58:43 Ian Clarke wrote: > Hi, that would be great! > > We did consider GWT a few years back, but the concern was the lack of > graceful degradation if the browser didn't support JavaScript. I'm not > sure how relevant that concern is in this day and age where browser s

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-02-22 Thread Matthew Toseland
On Wednesday 22 Feb 2012 14:58:43 Ian Clarke wrote: > Hi, that would be great! > > We did consider GWT a few years back, but the concern was the lack of > graceful degradation if the browser didn't support JavaScript. I'm not > sure how relevant that concern is in this day and age where browser s

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-02-22 Thread Ian Clarke
Hi, that would be great! We did consider GWT a few years back, but the concern was the lack of graceful degradation if the browser didn't support JavaScript. I'm not sure how relevant that concern is in this day and age where browser support for JavaScript is assumed on many websites. Ultimately

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-02-22 Thread Ian Clarke
Hi, that would be great! We did consider GWT a few years back, but the concern was the lack of graceful degradation if the browser didn't support JavaScript. I'm not sure how relevant that concern is in this day and age where browser support for JavaScript is assumed on many websites. Ultimately

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-02-21 Thread Pouyan Zachar
Hey, we had a discussion on how to re-implement the webui in context of GSoC 2011. The final consensus was to use a templating engine such as Apache velocity and externalize the whole HTML generation as template file. Main focus was on a light-weight and fast approach. Cheers Pouyan On Tue, Feb

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-02-21 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
Hello, This is a sort of personnal introduction: We want to work on freenet accessibility. The first step could be the webui. In the case of a total rework of the webui. Wich framework could be the 'good' one in the freenet philosophy ? Wich software architecture ? Is GWT and his model a good id

Re: [freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-02-21 Thread Pouyan Zachar
Hey, we had a discussion on how to re-implement the webui in context of GSoC 2011. The final consensus was to use a templating engine such as Apache velocity and externalize the whole HTML generation as template file. Main focus was on a light-weight and fast approach. Cheers Pouyan On Tue, Feb

[freenet-dev] webui and accessibility

2012-02-21 Thread Nicolas Hernandez
Hello, This is a sort of personnal introduction: We want to work on freenet accessibility. The first step could be the webui. In the case of a total rework of the webui. Wich framework could be the 'good' one in the freenet philosophy ? Wich software architecture ? Is GWT and his model a good id