Salve a tutti,
mi chiedevo se qualcuno di voi potesse
aiutarmi.
Io ho installato Mandrake 7.0 e ho necessita' di
lavorare con file poscript.
Ho riscontrato un problema con ghostview che non si
presenta invece utilizzando la red hat, e cioe' non appena cerco di aprire un
file postscript mi
Why oh why do I/we keep seeing double postings??? Is something
about my configuration???
John Rye wrote:
Budiono Tjia wrote:
Hi,
I am new to linux and I really need you all to help me
out for the Installation problem.
I have Mandrake 7.1 Deluxe. and during the
installation,
Hmm... I'm having 256 Mb of RAM, but I remember when I only had 64 (On my
K6-2 450) MpegTV was running fine. But the older version is running better
here than the one which comes with 7.1 Maybe you should try the old version
from 7.0?
I tried using it but I only get a small size screen and the
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Barry Premeaux wrote:
Thanks for the setup info. Getting minicom up and running is something
I have wanted to do, but never got around to. One problem I am having
is after running through the setup while in su, I can run it just fine
as su, but not as user. I get :
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Romanator wrote:
Any thoughts on what your favorite email package is and why?
Pine.
No mouse needed, fast, no HTML problems, highly configurable.
Exactly what I want.
Paul
--
Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn't come back?
A: A stick.
http://nlpagan.net - ICQ
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Vic wrote:
What the heck is a "nbsp" ?
It is a NonBreaking SPace. Something inside an HTML page that is inserted
to allow for more spaces in a row. Regular browsers will take out extra
spaces. This is a trick to add another space.
I always wonder why people send webpages to
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Craig Westerman wrote:
How do I find what version of Hard Drake I have installed?
Thanks
It tells you when you run it. Otherwise look in Help- about
Paul
--
Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn't come back?
A: A stick.
http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 - Registered
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Dacia and AzureRose wrote:
My experience was also that DSL is faster in linux
then in windows. We had a LAN with three computers on
My ISDN line is also faster in Linux than in windows.
Paul
--
Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn't come back?
A: A stick.
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Merida, Humberto wrote:
Is mandrake compatibal with Windows NT? I have an NT box at work and I want
to make it a dual boot.
Humberto
Mandrake is an OS, like Win NT. They do not have anything more in
common. If you have a computer, you can run mandrake on it.
Hey...
Could someone post the standard mandrake lib.so.conf file? I. deleted
mine. (it's a long story)
thanks...
-- jon
I have used both cable modem and DSL. I prefer the cable modem because it is
faster in my area. The drawback of DSL is the further you are from the main
office or switching cabinet the slower your speeds will be.I must have been
to far away only averaged 80KB downloads with DSL.
I average
Paul escribió:
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Joan Tur wrote:
I'm having problems while trying to download rpms through
rpmfind.net... is it just me?? 8-?
You can go to the french mirror at fr.rpmfind.net I am sure that makes it
easier for you in Spain.
I am in Holland, I use that one also.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
someone was acting clueless about something i asked, i was sarcastic he got
pissed insulted me and well it went down hill from there
Aaaah yes...I remember...thank you. I'm up to speed again. It was
late lastnight and I was having trouble putting the peices
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kandace Little) wrote:
I can not get this modem working wit Linux not sure
why though, It works just find when running windows.
It is a sportster 33.6 ENT FAX modem and I find I like
the little thing ;).
The problem I am having is that when I go to call out,
it finds
"Philip Ferguson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Which one of the millions of entries in my /dev directory is my serial
port?
Thanks,
Phil
=
ttySx (I think ;o) )
Mike
"What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch?"
--W. C. Fields
"Merida, Humberto" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
==
Is mandrake compatibal with Windows NT? I have an NT box at work and I want
to make it a dual boot.
Humberto
==
Absolutely! I think you *may* have to let then NT booter do the booting for
you,
Michael Scottaline wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kandace Little) wrote:
I can not get this modem working wit Linux not sure
why though, It works just find when running windows.
It is a sportster 33.6 ENT FAX modem and I find I like
the little thing ;).
The problem I am having is that
John,
You're correct. The correct place to have this modem is /dev/ttyS1, set the
control to none, and the speed to 115000. that should get this Sportster
working just fine.
I guess it's time for me to chirp in giggle. I use Star Office for
Thanks for chirping Patti.
both mail and browser and have found it extremely useful...it is more
like a mini-operating system than a office suite. I need to use Netscape
Exactly, which is the thing that turns me off. I'm
PMJI, I thought I am the only person who is receiving duplicates !
At 09-09-2000 06:05 PM, you wrote:
Why oh why do I/we keep seeing double postings??? Is something
about my configuration???
John Rye wrote:
Why oh why do I/we keep seeing double postings??? Is something
about my configuration???
If there is John, then I've got the same problem. I suspect it's a
server problem. Now there we go...complaining in double.
Cheers -- Larry
Oses do not have compatibility _problems_, but they do have trouble to
co-habit!
unsbuscribe newbie
I agree regarding the root login - however seems that even in the GUIs
one needs to violate the conventions now and then.
I guess my view is that the commandline has conventions and that the
GUIs are now developing them. I only have two neurons and so I need
to use them wisely when it comes
Having some trouble with the settings with kmix 1.01 My system is a dual
Celeron 400 running Mandrake 7.0 . Soundcard is a SoundBlaster AWE64 isa
( sorry no more details ). Sound works fine, mostly listening to mp3's.
The trouble is setting the options in kmix. I can select the channels to
be
i´m new in the world of linux and i use a mandrake
7.1 pentium3 533mgh 128 ram
the question is that i use a cable modem
conexion but i can`t conect properly
what are the steps for a conexion my isp use dhcp
thanks
Larry Marshall wrote:
I agree regarding the root login - however seems that even in the GUIs
one needs to violate the conventions now and then.
I guess my view is that the commandline has conventions and that the
GUIs are now developing them. I only have two neurons and so I need
to
On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Erik Hallsten wrote:
unsbuscribe newbie
Amazing with what new ways to write it some people come up with...
Paul
--
Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn't come back?
A: A stick.
http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 - Registered Linux User 174403
-=PINE 4.21
Hi everyone,
I am messing with a script and I run into a problem (would you otherwise
hear from me?)
The problem:
I receive a bunch of files at time. Depending on certain keywords in the
file I need to move these files to specific location.
My attempt:
for a in * ; do
if [ 'grep
Larry Marshall wrote:
I've seen reference to Midnight Commander but haven't tracked it
down. It sounds like it would serve as an intermediate between a GUI
filewindow and doing a whole lot of cd-ing.
Just type 'mc' at your terminal prompt - it should be part of the
standard install. It's
On Sat, 09 Sep 2000, you wrote:
Having some trouble with the settings with kmix 1.01 My system is a dual
Celeron 400 running Mandrake 7.0 . Soundcard is a SoundBlaster AWE64 isa
( sorry no more details ). Sound works fine, mostly listening to mp3's.
The trouble is setting the options in
On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, "Roman" == Romanator wrote:
Roman Hi Gary,
Roman Mutt sounds good. I think I'll try it out.
Roman Thanks
Roman,
You will love it. One thing it does better than any other MUA is the
way it handles threads, which makes it perfect for e-groups. This is
one of the major
On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Kathleen Dickason wrote:
The delete button is your friend...I use mine lots :)
Kathleen
Do you know how to recognize a russian keyboard? Has no ESCAPE key!
Paul
--
Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn't come back?
A: A stick.
http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 -
Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I use Pine for my personal e mail box,
K mail for my linux mail, and Netscape mail
to experiment and tune up the pop server.
=
I use kmail to receive mail. It can handle multiple popmail accounts (I have
three diffeent ones), has easy to
Would you contact me directly please with the list of video cards,
manufacturers, models, etc. The e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have a few more questions and would like to do a follow up.
Thank you.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Joan Tur wrote:
I'm having problems while trying to download rpms through
rpmfind.net... is it just me?? 8-?
You can go to the french mirror at fr.rpmfind.net I am sure that makes it
easier for you in Spain.
Maybe it's too busy now? Or i'm trying to download
syhim77 wrote
i like to type kpackage in command line rather than using kmenu in kde. it prevent
you from searching it in kmenu.
Larry Marshall wrote:
I looked in the gnome and KDE menus and i don't see kpackage.is it an
archive extraction-installation program? Is there a way to get a
SU in a Konsole or be in root and type in "kpackage". If it is already
installed the window should pop up for you to look for files. Also you
could try "rpmdrake" to see what is installed or not installed. You can
toggle on the reverse arrows on the tool bar to get installed or
uninstalled.
syhim77 wrote
yea...thats the good idea
Dennis Myers wrote:
SU in a Konsole or be in root and type in "kpackage". If it is already
installed the window should pop up for you to look for files. Also you
could try "rpmdrake" to see what is installed or not installed. You can
toggle on
Noemail, Pine, and Netscape at the moment. :-)
Dan
--
NeoMail - Webmail that doesn't suck... as much.
http://neomail.sourceforge.net
Hi, all --
I also have tried kmail for mail and have found it unsatisfactory. Quite often it
will hand up on a particular EMail. The problem
may, of course, be kppp, but I see it most with kmail. Dare I say it, when I return
to NT and use PMMail i never have a
problem. BTW, there is a
At 21:27 09/08/2000 -0400, you wrote:
That's waht my sisters boyfriend says. He installs cable for @home.
Nevertheless, my cable is ridiculously variable. As high as 150K and as low
as 500k on a daily swing. Like clockwork everynight between 3 and 10pm My
conneciton is as slow as a 56k dialup.
normally i do unless i am dead beat tired and just trying to get rid of mail
In a message dated 09-Sep-00 10:18:27 Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Is there a way you can quote which message you're replying to?
This gets pretty confusing...
Kathleen
On Fri, 08 Sep 2000, you wrote:
look i apologize now can we drop this bs
--
I second that notion, this got way out of hand. Let it go.
Jay
"Every man dies, not every man really lives."
http://www.mrsnooky.com
i guess russians dont know the meaning of escape, to busy defecting, lol
In a message dated 09-Sep-00 11:34:21 Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Do you know how to recognize a russian keyboard? Has no ESCAPE key!
Paul
On Sat, 09 Sep 2000, you wrote:
someone was acting clueless about something i asked, i was sarcastic he got
pissed insulted me and well it went down hill from there
--
I have the same sarcasm problem, but in the future, you need to note the
sarcasm for people in the message, remember it is
I totally dissagree ... I bought Quake 3 from Loki and it runs awsome with
no hangups and my framerates rock!
Lonny Selinger
Larry
go into the drakconf click user addition and at the bottom you will see
icon and a down arrow. you can select the icon to use with the
user...unfortunately I don't know how to change an existing user.
Larry Marshall wrote:
I stumbled on a "simple" thing today that had me scratching my
KPackage and rpmDrake aren't in the menus, there's no
configuration-Packagin, and they don't work from the console. Do i have to
re-install Mandrake?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Larry Marshall
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000
On Fri, 08 Sep 2000, you wrote:
I used a very small install of mandrake, and now i want to add and remove
packages. How do i do this? I also think drakconf is missing - how do i get
it?
If you don't have kpackage or have problems, use the command line.
To list all packages:
rpm -qa
To
On Wed, 06 Sep 2000, you wrote:
I have finally after months of attempts got everything to install and work
out of the box, but in desparation I installed it on a temporary machine -
"a proof of concept" type thing. In the next few weeks I will buy a new
mother board and hope to move off the
Hi,
I am new to linux and I really need you all to help me
out for the Installation problem.
I have Mandrake 7.1 Deluxe. and during the
installation, I only can install the first CD
(Installation CD) when the computer ask me to change
the CD to Extension CD, I can't do it because the
CDROM
It's probably everyone at the office trying to avoid work the last two hours
of the day!
Where I work, this starts at 11:30am! :-)
--Greg
- Original Message -
From: "Doug McGarrett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have noticed even with T1 at the office, the internet slows way down
around
3 ~ 5
You could still use RPM. From a terminal window:
$ rpm -Uvh foo-2.0-1.i386.rpm
--doug
At 12:47 09/09/2000 -0500, you wrote:
KPackage and rpmDrake aren't in the menus, there's no
configuration-Packagin, and they don't work from the console. Do i have to
re-install Mandrake?
-Original
Paul wrote:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Erik Hallsten wrote:
unsbuscribe newbie
Amazing with what new ways to write it some people come up with...
Paul
I thought this list is supposed to be a help resource. I don't remember
Erik asking for ridicule.
Fuzz
Carroll Grigsby wrote:
Anthony wrote:
How do I view a .lzh file? I was downloading some Dance Dance Revolution
(really really cool arcade game) movies, and I came across some that ended in
.lzh. I tried viewing them in GTV, but it didn't do anything. So what program
do I need to view
You guys go right ahead. This kind of conversation is
on eof my favorite parts of this list. I would say to
just add OT to both sides of the subject line and keep
on goin'.
Dacia
--- John Rye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Larry Marshall wrote:
I've seen reference to Midnight Commander but
John Rye wrote:
Goldenpi wrote:
I have been createing cds, for use on both windows and linux, containing
programing stuff. I have created it all on my hdd, but when I try to put it
on the cd it I am given the choice between iso9660 and some filesystem
called jouliet(I think). What is
Michael Scottaline wrote:
Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I use Pine for my personal e mail box,
K mail for my linux mail, and Netscape mail
to experiment and tune up the pop server.
=
I use kmail to receive mail. It can handle multiple popmail accounts (I have
Hey, you should qoute the messages your responding
too. I have no idea what your talking about because
this thread is about a week old and has been very
active.
Quake3 runs great in linux. I've got it on two
machines. One is mandrake 7.02 with two voodoo2's x
3.3.6 and the other machine is
Hi,
I noticed there are different flavors of kernels for updating. Another
one was just released on Sept. 4th.
2.2.17. Before I ruin another update, which kernel is recommended? I
have mdk7.1b Hydrogen installed.
By the way, can I test the newer kernel by saving it to a new floppy and
booting
Jason Ashman wrote:
On Sat, 09 Sep 2000, you wrote:
someone was acting clueless about something i asked, i was sarcastic he got
pissed insulted me and well it went down hill from there
--
I have the same sarcasm problem, but in the future, you need to note the
sarcasm for people in the
I did not see anywhere near this dramatic of a drop off in performance when I
had DSL. Typically I saw a drop from the average 90-110KB rates to about
75-50KB. On cable I'm getting a drop from 100-150KB to 10KB-500kb. That is
not a typo. I don't believe that every day the internet gets so
http://www.linux-mag.com/online/compton_c04_01.html
//-Original Message-
//From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Larry
//Hignight
//Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 6:52 AM
//To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
//Subject: Re: [newbie] AGH!! Linux not ready for prime time (OS/2
Richard Garand wrote:
KPackage and rpmDrake aren't in the menus, there's no
configuration-Packagin, and they don't work from the console. Do i have to
re-install Mandrake?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Larry Marshall
Sent:
Comment - We must be about due for a flame here - something about
wasting bandwidth on reminiscing.
Don't know what this has to do with penguin icons but I for one am certainly
enjoying it, so please don't stop!!
Well...first there was this dumb question I asked about penguins. Then
never mind, a reinstall fixed all i problems and i have rpmdrake and
kpackage
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Larry Marshall
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 3:58 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [newbie] Installing packages
Just type 'mc' at your terminal prompt - it should be part of the
standard install. It's almost exactly like the Dos equiv. - a few
Very interesting...something new to play with. thanks.
I'm not ofay with the history of Linux - I suspect that Linus
may have been avoiding copyright issues.
On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, "Ken" == Ken Wahl wrote:
Ken I've never used Exmh so I don't know about that one. It runs in the
Ken terminal but I wouldn't exactly call it command line.
Exmh is the GUI version of mh. It is the overall best MUA around. It
handles in-line HTML, or anything, will
Larry Marshall wrote:
Comment - We must be about due for a flame here - something about
wasting bandwidth on reminiscing.
Don't know what this has to do with penguin icons but I for one am certainly
enjoying it, so please don't stop!!
Well...first there was this dumb question I
On Sat, 09 Sep 2000, you wrote:
Hi,
I am new to linux and I really need you all to help me
out for the Installation problem.
I have Mandrake 7.1 Deluxe. and during the
installation, I only can install the first CD
(Installation CD) when the computer ask me to change
the CD to Extension
even with the menueditor working (terminal and type kmenuedit or
Kconfig..othermenu editor) the first items on my menu aren't
editable: logout, lockscreen, panel, disk navigator, - anyone know if
these can be altered?
bascule
P
I just installed Linux Mandrake 7.1. I have found that the kmenu
Kpackage should be a rpm on your installation disks you should be able
to install it right from the CDs I'm not sure which one it is on, but I
suspect it would be found on the second installation CD, just a guess,
look on both. If you have RPMDrake installed then the installation of
any rpm is
Quake3 runs great in linux. I've got it on two
machines. One is mandrake 7.02 with two voodoo2's x
3.3.6 and the other machine is mandrake 7.1 and a
voodoo5. I must say that the mouse works A LOT BETTER
in x 3.3.6. This is a known issue and has something
to do with DGA extensions and the way
Cheer up, I spent $100 for windows and it didnt work right either!
But seriously, from the command line you almost certainly have vim,
emacs, probably pico, and several other editors that will do the job in
the command line. Each of them will be well (but possibly cryptically)
documented. See for
problem is knowing the names of the man pages
It must be manufacturer because I've never had
mandrake not detect all of my ram yet my brother had
to do the lilo thing to use his second 128M stick.
Dacia
--- Patti Wavinak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My better half g has 256M and it is detected on
every installation...I on
the other hand
I can certainly apprecite what Patrick is say, but then again I'm like
Dacia. I enjoy that journey too! :)
--
Mark
** =/\= No Penguins were harmed | ICQ#27816299
** _||_ in the making of this |
** =\/=
try using vi. It's way cooler than pico anyway. What seems to be the
problem with you display? I honestly don't remember seeing any posts from
you about configuring X. But you've got my undivided attention fellow
penguin keeper! :)
--
Mark
naaah...it's just a real pain to use till you get used to it. Vi is
much easier to learn than emacs. IMHO of course.
--
Mark
** =/\= No Penguins were harmed | ICQ#27816299
** _||_ in the making of this
I have a Startech NE2000 compatible ethernet card on ISA, and a Yamaha
waveforce 192XG PCI sound card. How do i configure these to work in linux?
For the ethernet card, i know the windows hardware settings, my IP address,
my subnet mask, 2 DNS servers, the search domain or domain suffix and the
It cracks me up how everyone has suggested a different command line text
editor. Vi, Emacs, Vim and Pico so far.
Abe
= Original Message From Mark Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] =
try using vi. It's way cooler than pico anyway. What seems to be the
problem with you display? I honestly don't
Hi Dennis,
I didn't have any trouble when I installed Mandrake on my machine at
work. It too has 128MB RAM. I think though it's got something to do with
the mobo that's being used. I guess some do and some don't.
--
Mark
In a message dated 09-Sep-00 21:50:20 Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
ok my problem is while i was able to use x windows everything was too big and
changing resolution didnt help so i tried going from a 800x600 lcd display to
640x520
and then x windows wouldnt load, so i
We have identical motherboards and the mobo detects all of my ram -- go
figure ;-)
Patti
Registered Linux User 184611
Original Message
On 9/9/00, 7:55:45 PM, Mark Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding Re:
[newbie] RAM Detection:
Hi Dennis,
I didn't have any trouble when I installed
If you want to be able to use both on either PC there's a program called
VNC that works great. There's a version for both Windows and Linux.
The URL is: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/
Give it a try. We use it quite heavily where I work. It helps us take care
of a lot of user-troubles that
i dont care what it is as long as its currently on my system, easy to get to
since im still learning file structure of linux, and it doesnt give me a
headache trying to save an xf86config file from windows to linux, had to use
windows to find file that may or may not work
In a message dated
Neil Kate wrote:
Is there a thing I can load on my Linux box to let me control a MS pc
running PCAnywhere?
You could try running it under wine. The other alternative is vmware.
--
Barry :-)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
why is it my problems are ignored for stuff that has been answered a million
times over yet i sit here with a linux prompt and no x windows
:(
xf86config doesnt work anymore so i cant use that, found an xf86config file
that was optimized for my system yet i cant
On Sat, 09 Sep 2000, you wrote:
One of the things I love about mandrake is sitting
down to install, choosing development or expert and
diggin through the entire list of available packages.
Its sort of a voyage of discovery. I guess that this
is my round about way of saying that I would
On Sat, 09 Sep 2000, you wrote:
thought emac was for mac comps, maybe i read to much into names
thats what i thought too
To start with, you didn't LOOSE XWindow from your system. It's got a bad
config, but that's reparable...okay, take a deep breath, and...
type this (no quotes) "Xconfigurator"
Go thru the whole process of setting up the XWindow system again (mouse,
keyboard, Xserver, and finally display).
What is a good program to use that will log attempts to scan your
box?
Preferably something that can detect stealth scans.
TIA,
Dan
Um, that was meant to be "let us hear what happened here"...You get the
idea...
Steve W.
- Original Message -
From: "Steve Weltman" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [newbie] last one to be answered :(
To start with, you
Ok...here's what ya do. At the LILO prompt boot linux by typing the label
name that you normally use and add a number 3 to it. It might look
something like this:
boot: linux 3 ENTER
This will take you to "run level 3" which is the console login as opposed
the the X login screen. Log in as root
problem is knowing the names of the man pages
This is an understated and underestimated problem with computers and
software in general. We're provided with lots of syntactic reference
support (here's all the options you can use with this command) but
very little guidance when it comes to what
that certainly is one way to do it, albeit a 10 mile hike when the
distance to the goal is only a few hundred yards away. using the console
utility "setuptool" will do a very nice job of getting X configured and
running again. not to mention that it's much easier to use and there's
less chance of
neither of which are all that they're cracked up to be. There is a good
solution for Linux where this issue is concerned and VNC fills that spot
nicely.
--
Mark
** =/\= No Penguins were harmed | ICQ#27816299
**
I have a US Robotics 56K Sportster modem, it is
about 3 years old so it is not a winmodem. Anyway, I can get linux to find
the driver and query the modem, but it always says "the modem is busy." I
need to get this running as soon as possible. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.
Mark
I have an HP Deskjet 722C printer and I can not get
it to work in Linux. The system finds the printer, tells me what it is and
the selects a driver, but the driver does not work properly. The test page
prints, but very very slowly and it is all jumbled up and unreadable. I
have tried some
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