panels
throughout a multi-family residential building.If it’s a 13R design,
sprinkler protection is not required UNLESS…
The situation described does in fact complicate the assessment of building
height by number of stories. The IBC does not specify or even infer when an
attic might
) 337-0721<(602)%20337-0721> C: (307) 236-8249<(307)%20236-8249>
matthew.will...@ferguson.com<mailto:matthew.will...@ferguson.com>
From: Dapr Jones
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2024 8:39 AM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers
Subject: [Sprinklerf
If it becomes 4 storey, you might require a standpipe.
Tony
On Mon, Jul 29, 2024 at 7:10 AM wrote:
> I suggest a careful reading of 6.6.6 in 13R.
>
>
>
> While a 13D system ignores storage in attics, 13R does not allow the same
> considerations.
>
>
>
> App
Thanks. Yes I see now that sprinklers would definitely be required if the
tenant has access to the attic.
Follow up- You can't just install a wet pipe system up there if you add
heaters to the attic can you? NFPA 13R has special requirements (from what
I understand) for sprinklers in attic where
I suggest a careful reading of 6.6.6 in 13R.
While a 13D system ignores storage in attics, 13R does not allow the same
considerations.
Appropriately, I think Todd means, if the area becomes a “Story” or not as
defined in IBC.
Then it would be treated like a dwelling unit.
Otherwise, you
Thanks Todd, much appreciated. Yes, it would still be 13R I agree.
When you say " it would need to be appropriately protected" do you mean
the attic would need to be sprinklered?
It would become accessible to the tenant and they would likely use it for
storage. Does 13R allo
instead
of 3 and it would still be 13R.
Todd Williams
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-608-4559
>
> On Jul 28, 2024 at 1:31 PM, mailto:daprjo...@gmail.com)> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I'm working on a project that
I'm working on a project that is 3 stories with attic, multifamily
residential, type VA construction.
We designed the system to NFPA 13R, with no sprinklers in the attic.
Now the architect wants to add access to the attic for the 3'rd floor
tenant.
(note, there's only one tenant on the 3rd fl
Thanks Steve. Yeah, not talking about storage closet under the stairs but
under the angled stair risers that would be open and part of the room. 13R
does a fair job of addressing this. 13D does not. My first thought would be
to address this as an obstruction but 13R acknowledges in the appendix
: Wednesday, June 26, 2024 2:53 PM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Interior Stairwells 13R vs 13D
13R 2019 states "6.6.9.2 Sprinklers shall not be required underneath stair
risers in dwelling units where the walls and cei
13R 2019 states "6.6.9.2 Sprinklers shall not be required underneath stair
risers in dwelling units where the walls and ceilings are surfaced with
noncombustible or limited-combustible finishes."
I do not see a similar statute in 13D. Is there a reason for this? What is
you
Dapr,
The Installation Guidelines of the CPVC will give you the criteria for
installing CPVC exposed rather than 13R.
Greg McGahan
Genesis Fire Services, LLC.
From: Dapr Jones
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 10:57 AM
To: Discussion list on issues relating
A multi-family fit up project will have existing to remain upper floor and
new first floor apt. units. Currently the building is not sprinkled and
will have a new sprinkler system.
The contractor wants to run the new sprinkler pipe exposed using CPVC in
the existing upper level units.
NFPA 13R
al opinion.
I do note, however that 13R in §9.3 seems to suggest that a
combined domestic and fire service to the building is completely
acceptable with certain qualifiers regarding domestic demand being
accounted for.
let us know how this is resolved,
Ken Wa
duplicative to me, however that's just personal opinion.
>
> I do note, however that 13R in §9.3 seems to suggest that a combined
> domestic and fire service to the building is completely acceptable with
> certain qualifiers regarding domestic demand being accounted for.
>
personal opinion.
I do note, however that 13R in §9.3 seems to suggest that a
combined domestic and fire service to the building is completely
acceptable with certain qualifiers regarding domestic demand being
accounted for.
let us know how
Wednesday, February 28, 2024 12:40 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] 13R water supply question
I have a 13R sprinkler system whose water supply is a 2" combination
domestic/fire line run from the city main into the mechanical room. The plumber
installed the
I have a 13R sprinkler system whose water supply is a 2" combination
domestic/fire line run from the city main into the mechanical room. The plumber
installed the line and pulled the proper permits for the installation of that
domestic line. The plumber left a 2" outlet l
That's what I thought. Thanks
From: Dane Long [mailto:da...@bamfordfire.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2023 3:50 PM
To: 'Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers'
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: 13R basements
You didn't specify which yr. of 13R. But in the 2016 it talks
You didn't specify which yr. of 13R. But in the 2016 it talks about areas
outside dwelling units in sections 6.2.2 and 7.2.
6.2.2 gives a list of allowable areas.
7.2 give you the criteria for these areas.
My guess is this area is probably going to be used for storage so most
likely
'
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: 13R basements
Please review 2016 ed. NFPA 13R , Chapter 7., Design Criteria - Outside
Dwelling Unit.
It should be pretty clear.
Regards,
G. Tim Stone
G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC
NICET Level III Engineering Technician
Fire Protection Sprinkler Design
Please review 2016 ed. NFPA 13R , Chapter 7., Design Criteria - Outside
Dwelling Unit.
It should be pretty clear.
Regards,
G. Tim Stone
G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC
NICET Level III Engineering Technician
Fire Protection Sprinkler Design
and Consulting Services
117 Old Stage Rd
When sprinkling a basement in a 13R system can residential heads be used, when
the compartments are 1000 sq. ft. and the structure is exposed (2"x12" truss)?
Bobby Welch | Sprinkler Systems Designer
KOORSEN FIRE & SECURITY
3577 Concorde Rd, Vandalia, OH 45377
P 937.641.8403 |
Thanks Ron. I just found in the handbook commentary that "A dwelling unit
also includes the corridor that leads to the guest rooms in a hotel or
motel type facility" which would seem to imply some level of boundaries.
On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 11:25 AM Ron Greenman wrote:
> If I'm picturing this
If I'm picturing this one way I'd say if there was no separation other than
visual like a valance, a floor elevation difference, or a change of carpet
pattern then there is no corridor. If in another visualization where there
is a corridor to either side of a wide opening from the lobby then the
Ref: NFPA 2013 6.4.7
Use of residential sprinklers are permitted in corridors, foyers, hall etc.
under 6.4.7. However, lobbies in hotels and motels are expressly forbidden
to have residential sprinklers in this section which leads me to a couple
of questions:
What about the corridors connecting
have their own advantages and drawbacks.
-Original Message-
From: Sarah
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 8:57 PM
To: Sean Lockyer
Cc: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: [Sprinklerforum] 13R spacing
Most residential sprinklers can cover 18’x18’ or 20’x20’ spacing. Why not
inc
Larger pipe size as a result (most likely) = $$$
-Original Message-
From: Sarah
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 8:57 PM
To: Sean Lockyer
Cc: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: [Sprinklerforum] 13R spacing
Most residential sprinklers can cover 18’x18’ or 20’x20’ spacing
Can the kitchen cabinetry/countertops, etc be eliminated from the floor
space being protected in a 13R application ? I have a kitchen that is littered
with multiple diffusers and lights and in order to make the spacing work out
correctly, I won't be able to space the head in the kitchen
Hello Sean-
This is also a requirement of NFPA 13R.
6.6.5.1 Where a roof or deck is provided above, sprinklers shall be
installed to protect attached exterior balconies, attached
exterior decks, and ground floor patios serving dwelling units in buildings
of Construction Type V.
My opinion
is type 5 and not fire rated or FRT wood, then you will probably
need sprinklers out there too! That is 13 and 13R even if it is not covered (by
the letter of the code). [IBC 2018 edition, section 705.2.3.1]
I would plan on sprinklers.
Matt
From: travis.m...@mfpdesign.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 18,
lHhABSexWY%3D=0>
From: Sean Lockyer
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2022 5:45:02 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Non-combustible patio/balcony in 13R Type V
construction
Per the Florida Building Code, Chapter 9, sprinkler prot
Per the Florida Building Code, Chapter 9, sprinkler protection is required for
an exterior balcony in a 13R system if the building is of Type V construction.
However, that also assumes that the balcony overhang is also type V (I.E. -
wood) but what would you do if the balcony is NOT combustible
Per the Florida Building Code, Chapter 9, sprinkler protection is required for
an exterior balcony in a 13R system if the building is of Type V construction.
However, that also assumes that the balcony overhang is also type V (I.E. -
wood) but what would you do if the balcony is NOT combustible
56 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Open attached corridor in 13R
I'm looking at a 13R project that has open attached corridors and stairs. The
corridors are about 33' deep and dead end.
Can sprinklers be omitted per 13R (2016), "6.6.5 Except as provided f
I'm looking at a 13R project that has open attached corridors and stairs.
The corridors are about 33' deep and dead end.
Can sprinklers be omitted per 13R (2016), "6.6.5 Except as provided for in
6.6.5.1, sprinklers shall not be required in any porches, balconies,
corridors, carports,
, January 11, 2022 2:14 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: travis.m...@mfpdesign.com; wmens...@comcast.net
Subject: RE: 13R bathrooms
BE ADVISED - This email originated outside EMCOR.
Tub area is
et
Subject: RE: 13R bathrooms
BE ADVISED - This email originated outside EMCOR.
Tub area is to be included. I believe there was confusion as it wasn't always
being applied correctly, so the committee just said 55 sq ft total.
Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, COC, SET Senior Engineering Mana
8f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180=eGdMZGu2wXhUupGwgGTrqF3b54OP5%2BAZvlHhABSexWY%3D=0>
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of BILL MENSTER via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2022 11:53 AM
To: sprinklerforum
Cc: BILL MENSTER
Subject: 13R bathrooms
I bel
I believe past editions of NFPA 13R (pre-2007) included an explanation that the
bathtub area need not be included in the square foot area of the bathroom.
However, current editions (in this case the 2016 edition) do not include this
language. My question is, does the tub area need
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Steve Leyton ; Salvatore Izzo
Subject: RE: 13R Installation of Sprinkler Systems in Low-Rise Residential
Occupancies
Good call Sal; as I said in my response, it's up to the Building Official to
clarify whether that separation has to be two or three hours
| Planning | Training
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Salvatore Izzo via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2021 1:29 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Salvatore Izzo
Subject: Re: 13R Installation of Sprinkler Systems in Low-Rise
Gentlemen,
The way we would interpret this in Florida per the "Florida Fire Prevention
Code" would be based on the height of the top "Floor Level". I think at the
least you are looking at 13 for the garage level, 13R for the Residential
Levels, and an "Manual Wet"
iginal Message-
> From: Steve Leyton
> Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 3:51 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: tston...@comcast.net
> Subject: RE: 13R Installation of Sprinkler Systems in Low-Rise Residential
> Occupancies
>
> Assuming the building code
Salina, KS 67401
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On
Behalf Of tstone52--- via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 2:42 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: tston...@comcast.net
Subject: 13R Installation of Sprinkler Systems in Low-Rise Residential
Occupan
...@comcast.net
Subject: RE: 13R Installation of Sprinkler Systems in Low-Rise Residential
Occupancies
Assuming the building code that's applicable to this project classifies this
as two separate buildings (a four-story Type 3 on a single-story Type 1
podium), NFPA 13R can be used as a basis of design in many
Is there a Code information sheet from the architect? Check to see what
allowances have been taken.
Is the separation enough for this to be treated as two buildings or is it a
single building?
My gut answer says no to 13R but the differences in construction could make
Assuming the building code that's applicable to this project classifies this as
two separate buildings (a four-story Type 3 on a single-story Type 1 podium),
NFPA 13R can be used as a basis of design in many (most?) jurisdictions. It
is up to the building official to clarify whether a two
Am I reading the Scope of 13R correctly?
I am designing a Sprinkler system for a building which is five stories in
height. Each floor is about 5,500 SF. The Ground floor is a parking garage
of concrete & steel (Type 1a construction) with 4 stories of Residential
above which constructed of
gt; behalf of BILL MENSTER via Sprinklerforum
>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 11:49:24 AM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>
> Cc: BILL MENSTER ; Fpdcdesign
> Subject: Re: 13 / 13R IN SAME BUILDING?
>
> Thanks all for your input.
>
> Bill Menster
> WFM Consul
What Building Code are you using ?
John Drucker
From: Sprinklerforum on behalf
of BILL MENSTER via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 11:49:24 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: BILL MENSTER ; Fpdcdesign
Subject: Re: 13 / 13R IN SAME
Thanks all for your input.
Bill Menster
WFM Consulting
> On 05/11/2021 9:53 AM Fpdcdesign via Sprinklerforum
> wrote:
>
>
> Look under “Scope” in NFPA 13R, both the main part and the appendix.
>
>
>
> Todd G Williams, PE
> Fire Protection Desig
Something to think about
Keep in mind NFPA 13R has limited property protection compared to a NFPA 13
system. Can the community afford to lose the use of the firehouse due to a
fire which was not contained by a NFPA 13R system.
John
John August Denhardt, P.E
Vice President Engineering
Look under “Scope” in NFPA 13R, both the main part and the appendix.
Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-535-2080 (tel:860-535-2080) (ofc)
860-554-7054 (tel:860-554-7054) (fax)
860-608-4559 (tel:860-608-4559) (cell
: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of BILL MENSTER via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 8:33 AM
To: sprinklerforum
Cc: BILL MENSTER
Subject: 13 / 13R IN SAME BUILDING?
I have a fire station retro-fit project in Michigan. The A/E has specified
NFPA 13 design for the entire facility and 13R design
I have a fire station retro-fit project in Michigan. The A/E has specified
NFPA 13 design for the entire facility and 13R design for only the second floor
of the 2-story section which is a sleeping area. This 2-story section is wood
frame construction with attic space. The A/E is using
FWIW this was born out of the fire code as a hedge against exposure fires
from grilling, primarily, probably patio heaters and what not as well now.
It then migrated into 13R due to the near universal pairing of IBC/IFC
with 13R. IFC/IFC commentary unfortunately doesn't give a ton of wiggle
I notice that 13R 6.6.5.1 (2013 ed) requirement for sprinkler coverage for
exterior balconies does not have a depth requirement unlike the 4ft rule
found in 13. I have some apartments I'm bidding with a balcony at the upper
level and the overhang is 3 ft.over the balcony. I'm going to put
: travis.m...@mfpdesign.com
Subject: Re: NFPA 13R & NFPA 14 - (flow rates)
But domestic demand is added at the split with domestic and fire. The domestic
wouldn’t flow through standpipes.
It would have to be some crazy accessory use.
Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, COC, SET
Engineering Man
February 6, 2021 2:27:55 PM
To: 'Jose Anibal Castillo' ;
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
; st...@protectiondesign.com
; sbi...@wenteplumbing.com
Cc: d...@engfirepro.com
Subject: RE: NFPA 13R & NFPA 14 - (flow rates)
I suspect that requirement is due more to the Domestic Demand
I suspect that requirement is due more to the Domestic Demand in a very
(extremely) large apartment building. Table A.9.6(b) (NFPA 13R, 2016 Edition)
shows a Domestic Demand of 500 gpm for a building with 3500 Fixture Units.
Without a plumbing code handy I don't know where the domestic demand
.
In that example, the apartment complex with the boat storage the part where
it is required to be used nfpa 13. If that is the case, then section
7.10.1.3.1.1 would not have needed to add 13R since with 13 would have been
good enough, I think.
I followed back and found that the 13R was added in 2013
I could dream up a scenario where a 13R system had a higher pressure
requirement (with a lower flow) than a standpipe calculation. Being
limited to 4 stories definitely makes this a lot less likely to occur in
the real world. It could happen, but I have never seen it here in the real
world
In practice, probably not. As I'm sitting here today, I can't honestly recall
how/when that section came into being or when we may have last tweaked it, but
it's a CYA for sure.Maybe if I had a building projected with 13R that had
an accessory use like... I dunno, boat storage. A marina
Jose Anibal Castillo via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 10:43 AM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: Jose Anibal Castillo
> Subject: NFPA 13R & NFPA 14
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do no
via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2021 10:43 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Jose Anibal Castillo
Subject: NFPA 13R & NFPA 14
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click
links or open attachments unless you can confirm the se
13R & NFPA 14
In section 7.10.1.3.1.1 of the nfpa 14, 2019 states that in cases where 13R
system demand is higher than the standpipe demand it is supposed to be chosen
the higher demand.
Is it even possible to have a residential sprinkler system with a higher demand
than the stand
In section 7.10.1.3.1.1 of the nfpa 14, 2019 states that in cases where 13R
system demand is higher than the standpipe demand it is supposed to be
chosen the higher demand.
Is it even possible to have a residential sprinkler system with a higher
demand than the standpipe?
Regards
José
: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>
> Cc: travis.m...@mfpdesign.com
> Subject: Domestic Demands 13R
>
> [EXTERNAL]
>
> Forumites:
>
> Per 13R 9.6 it requires the domestic demand for the building being calculated
> to be added to the fire sprinkler system. This i
On Behalf
Of J H via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 3:06 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: J H
Subject: Re: Domestic Demands 13R
If the AHJ digs in there is always the route of using automatic domestic
shutoff valves..
<https://www.avast.com/sig-em
**
From: Sprinklerforum on behalf
of Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 1:16:17 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Matt Grise
Subject: RE: Domestic Demands 13R
What if you just brought in a separate fire line? Then you
On Behalf
Of Ed Kramer via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 2:14 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: e...@bamfordfire.com
Subject: RE: Domestic Demands 13R
Section 9.6 (2016) says "Domestic demand FOR THE BUILDING BEING CALCULATED
shall be included . . .&quo
ebarkerfire.com; sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: travis.m...@mfpdesign.com
Subject: RE: Domestic Demands 13R
Correct. However, they may be expected to have domestic demands. That is the
plan reviewer rationale in one particular case.
Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
Engineering Man
_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 9:34 AM Travis Mack via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
> Forumites:
>
> Per 13R 9.6 it requires the domestic demand for the buildi
That request is now our list of items to be considered or the 2025 edition
of 13R.
Thanks,
John
John August Denhardt, PE
*Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*
*American Fire Sprinkler Association*
m: p: 301-343-1457
214-349-5965 ext 121
w: firesprinkler.org
<ht
I think the rationale is that for a project in the downtown areas, your flow
test is already accounting for those buildings being active. In the new
development, your flow test is not accounting for those since they don't yet
exist.
However, I am glad the commentary in the 13R handbook (2016
-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Mack via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:53 AM
To: philli...@pyebarkerfire.com; sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: travis.m...@mfpdesign.com
Subject: RE: Domestic Demands 13R
Correct
f Ron Greenman via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:19 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Ron Greenman
Subject: Re: Domestic Demands 13R
My understanding of this is that the complex would have had a total fire flow
and domestic flow calculated into the main
ld do: add the
domestic demand at the hydraulically remote building first, then add the
incremental demand for the rest of the buildings along the way, knowing
that the incremental demand is not the same as the demand for the furthest
building (eg. looking at the table in my 13R, if all buildings had 50
fix
The commentary in the 2016 edition of the 13R handbook states that you don't
include the demand for the other buildings. You only include the demand of the
building being calculated.
Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
Engineering Manager
MFP Design
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
NEW
I agree - we are starting to make assumptions about the design basis of the
civil/underground water system.
13R 9.6 says "for the building being calculated"- not 'along with all of the
other buildings that might use the same underground supply'
The handbook goes
=2591775=517003
> or
> http://fergusoncommunications.us.newsweaver.com/hq7bgesq7f/n1gewi5ud95byeftyuoy12/external?email=true=6=2591775=517003**
>
> From: Hinson, Ryan
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:59 AM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: Travis Mac
@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Travis Mack
Subject: RE: Domestic Demands 13R
Is this entire complex brand new or existing? Your answer will determine mine:
1. Taking a water flow test on an existing looped water main supplying both FW
and domestic demands already accounts for the domestic demands of the other
into the building
in question, one only needs to include the domestic demand for that building
where the domestic is not provided with a valve preventing domestic flow in the
event of a sprinkler activation therein. NFPA 13R (2016) Section 9.6 states,
"Domestic Demand. Domestic d
, November 12, 2020 9:51 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; travis.m...@mfpdesign.com
Cc: Mark Phillips
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Domestic Demands 13R
From a practical perspective all of the apartment building would not be
expected to be on fire at once.
That was how a plan reviewer once
or
http://fergusoncommunications.us.newsweaver.com/hq7bgesq7f/n1gewi5ud95byeftyuoy12/external?email=true=6=2591775=517003**
From: Mark Phillips
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:51 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; Travis Mack
Subject: Re: Domestic Demands 13R
From a practical
Phillips via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:46:23 AM
To: travis.m...@mfpdesign.com ;
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Mark Phillips
Subject: Re: Domestic Demands 13R
[EXTERNAL]
Sorry if I was not clear only the demand of the building or buildings that
share the 4
: RE: Domestic Demands 13R
I understand you said you are designed per 13R, but since you have a large
lead-in of 4" have you tried to use "the more stringent 13 standard" that
essentially says UG mains less than 4" that are for fire/domestic you have to
calculate both u
;
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Domestic Demands 13R
[EXTERNAL]
So in this case, you would be adding a total demand of 2500 gpm (20 buildings
at 125 gpm each) to your sprinkler calc? And yes, it would be included at the
point of each 4” connection to the 8” main. Seems
I understand you said you are designed per 13R, but since you have a large
lead-in of 4" have you tried to use "the more stringent 13 standard" that
essentially says UG mains less than 4" that are for fire/domestic you have to
calculate both unless you have a way to a
/n1gewi5ud95byeftyuoy12/external?email=true=6=2591775=517003**
From: Mark Phillips
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:41 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Travis Mack
Subject: Re: Domestic Demands 13R
Assuming the 8 inch supply loops the complex
Add the domestic demand at the 4” point
, November 12, 2020 11:34:20 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: travis.m...@mfpdesign.com
Subject: Domestic Demands 13R
[EXTERNAL]
Forumites:
Per 13R 9.6 it requires the domestic demand for the building being calculated
to be added to the fire sprinkler system. This is generally
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From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Travis Mack via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:34 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: travis.m...@mfpdesign.com
Subject: Domestic Demands 13R
Forumites:
Per 13R 9.6 it requires the domestic demand for the building being
Forumites:
Per 13R 9.6 it requires the domestic demand for the building being calculated
to be added to the fire sprinkler system. This is generally not an issue. If
you have a complex of say 20 buildings on site that is supplied by a common
water line serving both domestic and fire, are you
DESIGN
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of "sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org"
Reply-To: "sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org"
Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 9:56 AM
To: "sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org"
Cc: Mark Phillips , James Litvak
Subject
@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: James Litvak
Subject: 13R and Well Pump?
[EXTERNAL]
Would a well pump be allowed for a 13R system? It doesn't directly meet the
definitions of one of the sources outlined in section 9.3, but I'm wondering if
anyone has used one and been able to justify it, and have it approved
Not for.a 13R. For one thing, would the well pump be able to 60 gpm (4
sprinklers at 13 gpm + overage)?And do that at a 40 psi pressure? And
sustain that for 30 minutes? Not likely that a well pump or residential sized
well could do that.
Todd G Williams, PE
Fire
Would a well pump be allowed for a 13R system? It doesn't directly meet the
definitions of one of the sources outlined in section 9.3, but I'm
wondering if anyone has used one and been able to justify it, and have it
approved.
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Sprinklerforum mailing
Hope you are all doing well.
I would like to ask if anyone in the forum has experience with NFPA 13R and
NFPA 14.
In section 7.10.1.3.1.1 of the nfpa 14, 2019 states that in cases where 13R
system demand is higher than the standpipe demand it is supposed to be
chosen the higher demand. I am
Good points Skyler but it is worth mentioning that the decisions you mentions
(13 vs 13r) etc. are subject to Geography and Jurisdiction. In Florida for
instance, anything less than 50 sprinklers IS designed solely by the Sprinkler
Contractor and we are responsible for answering that question
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