On Saturday, August 14, 2004, at 06:08 AM, Mikael Byström wrote:
Don, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
This thread would make for an interesting thread in
the fields of communications, psychology, philosophy
and human relations. Certainly it reveals some of the
difficulties that technical people have in
on 15/08/04 14:09, Bruce Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip!]
Hey, this IS the G-list, after all.
Not to be nit-picky, but this is actually the G-BOOKS list... ;-)
-Laurent.
--
Laurent Daudelin AIM/iChat:
Timothy, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I don't even know what Sasser does. See what a few months with a Mac
does to a guy?
That kind of ignorance is wonderful, isn't it?
--
G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and...
Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives
Laurent, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I simply try to nitpick your arbitrary figure as
you seem to do from time to time... ;-)
There are degrees in hell?
--
G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and...
Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives |
-- Check
Eugene, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
But it's bad form to take
the scholarly way of saying that what you do is not your fault.
On the contrary, I take full responsibility for what I do and write. If
someone leaves out information in a message, something I do to on
occasion, then that message to some
Bruce, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
what bothers me is the seeming
attitude by many that the mac is just beset with horrible problems
Which I agree is untrue for many users, perhaps a clear majority (which I
believe).
For some users though Macs *are* just beset with horrible problems.
While that
I find that the majority of people that feel this way have never used a Mac
and are listening to PC propaganda. I know many people with both Mac's and
PC's and PC's are by far more trouble prone that Mac's are.
In my two High School Computer Labs, the Mac lab just runs on its own and
the PC lab
I agree... while fairly new to Macs, I find them much less trouble
overall than peecee's. When I have problems with my Mac, I figure on
maybe an hour or two sorting things out. When one of my peecee's goes
down, I make sure the fridge is stocked with cold beverages and write
off the weekend!
Thomas, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I know many people with both Mac's and
PC's and PC's are by far more trouble prone that Mac's are.
While that is also my perception, you must realize that depending on the
usage focus (with which I mean the combination of hardware like outboard
gear, specific
On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 01:37:56AM +0200, Mikael Byström wrote:
:
: macnifico, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
:
: Yesterday I installed the upgrade with no problems. I DIDN'T run
: permissions, the CD, etc.
:
: and your point is?
I believe his point is that he installed the 10.3.5 update --- without
Eugene, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 01:37:56AM +0200, Mikael Byström wrote:
:
: macnifico, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
:
: Yesterday I installed the upgrade with no problems. I DIDN'T run
: permissions, the CD, etc.
:
: and your point is?
I believe his point is that he installed
Laurent, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Since Bruce is a system administrator where he works, I would assume that
when he says real life, he's probably thinking about the users he has to
support. But that's just wishful thinking from me...
I'd expect he's an excellent system administrator, but he's not
On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 11:25:42AM +0200, Mikael Byström wrote:
: Eugene said:
: On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 01:37:56AM +0200, Mikael Byström wrote:
: : macnifico said:
: :
: : Yesterday I installed the upgrade with no problems. I DIDN'T run
: : permissions, the CD, etc.
: :
: : and your point is?
on 13/08/04 05:25, Mikael Byström at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Eugene, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 01:37:56AM +0200, Mikael Byström wrote:
:
: macnifico, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
:
: Yesterday I installed the upgrade with no problems. I DIDN'T run
: permissions, the CD,
Eugene, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
If people report that they have had no problems, it helps to
downplay the perceived magnitude of the problem and the necessity for
implementing the solutions.
I agree, but how the report was presented, that is in the context of the
discussion, more informational
Laurent, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
What make you think that because it occurs in 10%, it is a problem? Or who
said it was a problem? You?
If it occurs in 9%, is it a problem? If not, then is 8% a problem? Where
does that end?
I don't agree with your statement that 10% is a problem.
Well, that
On 13/08/04 10:59, Mikael Byström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Laurent, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
What make you think that because it occurs in 10%, it is a problem? Or who
said it was a problem? You?
If it occurs in 9%, is it a problem? If not, then is 8% a problem? Where
does that end?
I
On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 04:47:40PM +0200, Mikael Byström wrote:
:
: Eugene said:
:
: If people report that they have had no problems, it helps to
: downplay the perceived magnitude of the problem and the necessity for
: implementing the solutions.
:
: I agree, but how the report was presented,
On Aug 12, 2004, at 7:47 PM, Laurent Daudelin wrote:
on 12/08/04 19:47, Mikael Byström at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bruce, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
In real life, most people have few problems with OS X.
let me guess, real life is lives approved by you? How do you
find
the time for all this
On Aug 13, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
On Aug 12, 2004, at 7:47 PM, Laurent Daudelin wrote:
on 12/08/04 19:47, Mikael Byström at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bruce, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
In real life, most people have few problems with OS X.
let me guess, real life is lives approved
.. Original Message ...
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:57:19 -0700 Bruce Johnson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To be truthful, Timothy also said he 'practices safe computing' which
would include keeping your systems up-to-date. Sasser exploited a hole
that had been patched several weeks or months
This thread would make for an interesting thread in
the fields of communications, psychology, philosophy
and human relations. Certainly it reveals some of the
difficulties that technical people have in conveying
what they are trying to say in non-technical terms.
:-)
The problem may have started
Bruce, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
There are some folks who will argue that Mac users need to use AV
software to protect hapless Windows users you may communicate with, but
transmitting a virus like that requires a deliberate act. You can't
just do it 'accidentally'.
Word viruses can survive a
Thomas, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
You can't possibly spread them to anyone else unless you physically include
the virus infested attachment when you send you email to a windows machine.
Never heard of Word viruses? This is in my circles, a bunch of Mac users
at work and in school and with many
On Aug 11, 2004, at 5:23 PM, Marcin Wichary wrote:
Yeah, I don't know why they get mixed up either, given that OS X is
so super-stable and all, but it seems they do.
See Tutorial: Permissions, Accounts, and File Organization
http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20040107175410865
I read it,
I hear you but I just can't seem to justify 100.00 (per year) for a
virus program and other stuff I just don't need. I would rather spend
60.00 on a single program. I realize that virus on a Mac are the least
of my problems but I am getting an amazing number of them through
email. I believe I am
On Aug 11, 2004, at 5:40 PM, B Gardner wrote:
I hear you but I just can't seem to justify 100.00 (per year) for a
virus program and other stuff I just don't need. I would rather spend
60.00 on a single program. I realize that virus on a Mac are the least
of my problems but I am getting an
On Aug 12, 2004, at 5:36 AM, Mikael Byström wrote:
Bruce, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
There are some folks who will argue that Mac users need to use AV
software to protect hapless Windows users you may communicate with,
but
transmitting a virus like that requires a deliberate act. You can't
just do
Can this happen by forwarding[ by Mac] an infected attachment to a pc user??
Bill
Bruce Johnson wrote:
On Aug 11, 2004, at 5:40 PM, B Gardner wrote:
I hear you but I just can't seem to justify 100.00 (per year) for a
virus program and other stuff I just don't need. I would rather spend
60.00 on
Bill, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Can this happen by forwarding[ by Mac] an infected attachment to a pc user??
Obviously. Though a well behaved user would of course try first to make
sure they didn't forward it.
One way is to clean the attachment with a modern word app as Bruce
suggested or as I
Bruce, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Looking at the logs of our AV server on the network, I see NO
Word macro viruses found in a long long time. Moreover, modern versions
of Word warn you when a file is opened with macros in it, and offer you
the choice of opening it without them present.
Luis, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
There is no way you are passing those virus unwillingly.
Unknowingly there are ways to pass on viruses. One favorite among
people I exchange messages with are forwarding of Word files (30+
infected in the last few years) and also other formats, that they for
reasons,
Timothy, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
some default setting that was chosen who knows when by who knows who
for who knows what
Well, by who knows are the developers of Mac OS X, I'm sure.
--
G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and...
Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com |
On Aug 12, 2004, at 9:47 AM, Bill Buckhaults wrote:
Can this happen by forwarding[ by Mac] an infected attachment to a pc
user??
Bill
Possibly. It depends on the person and their mail client on the other
end, forwarding the e-mail may make the attachment harder to strip out
and execute. But,
On Aug 12, 2004, at 11:18 AM, Mikael Byström wrote:
Also, you're forgetting social viruses like hoaxmail. I regard these as
human mind viruses and obviously they don't harm computers, but these
are
still annoying as they come from people you don't want to filter and
that
should know better.
On Aug 12, 2004, at 2:38 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
(Note, my disdain of AV software applies ONLY to Macs; it is an
absolutely *essential* piece of software on a Windows system.)
Only if one uses IE, Outlook (Express) and/or opens files of dubious
origin.
I consider AV a waste of $$ and RAM for
Timothy Luoma wrote:
On Aug 12, 2004, at 2:38 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
(Note, my disdain of AV software applies ONLY to Macs; it is an
absolutely *essential* piece of software on a Windows system.)
Only if one uses IE, Outlook (Express) and/or opens files of dubious
origin.
Not true at all! My
On Aug 12, 2004, at 1:55 PM, John wrote:
Timothy Luoma wrote:
On Aug 12, 2004, at 2:38 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
(Note, my disdain of AV software applies ONLY to Macs; it is an
absolutely *essential* piece of software on a Windows system.)
Only if one uses IE, Outlook (Express) and/or opens files
Bruce, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
After 10 years we have finally gotten the majority of our users to
recognize these as the hoaxes they are, but it took a long, long time.
Tell me about it. :)
--
G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and...
Small Dog Electronics
macnifico, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Yesterday I installed the upgrade with no problems. I DIDN'T run
permissions, the CD, etc.
and your point is?
--
G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and...
Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives |
-- Check our
Laurent, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I try to keep my systems as clean as possible and I must say that most of
the time, I don't think about running Disk Utility to repair permissions
here and there, before and after upgrades and I haven't had any serious
problem so far.
So, keep that in mind the
Bruce, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Mac OS X just works, and most people just expect it to.
Not for everyone. Audio apps working together seem to have some issues to
solve. Just check out the Mac OS X Audio sites.
I have very few problems so far, since Jaguar. So I have those
expectations like
Bruce, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
In real life, most people have few problems with OS X.
let me guess, real life is lives approved by you? How do you find
the time for all this approval business?
I have few problems with OS X. Is that enough to become approved?
--
G-Books is sponsored by
Mikael, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Bruce, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
In real life, most people have few problems with OS X.
let me guess, real life is lives approved by you? How do you find
the time for all this approval business?
I have few problems with OS X. Is that enough to become approved?
on 12/08/04 19:47, Mikael Byström at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bruce, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
In real life, most people have few problems with OS X.
let me guess, real life is lives approved by you? How do you find
the time for all this approval business?
I have few problems with OS
The quote below raises the query: Which should I buy?
Which is better, DiskWarrior or TechTool Pro?
Are there price breaks for those that purchase one and
want to try the other?
Don
As I understand it, the two are different in what they do, though I'm
not clear exactly how: DW has always been
On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 4:52 am -0600, Andrew Main wrote:
The quote below raises the query: Which should I buy?
Which is better, DiskWarrior or TechTool Pro?
Are there price breaks for those that purchase one and
want to try the other?
Don
As I understand it, the two are different in what they
TimH wrote:
Tidbits (www.tidbits.com) had a very thorough report on current disk
utilities a couple of months ago - it'll be archived on their site.
Indeed; here it is:
http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=07451
(Note link to TTP 4 review at right.)
Andrew Main
--
G-Books is sponsored by
On 8/10/04 11:56 PM, Don P. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The quote below raises the query: Which should I buy?
Which is better, DiskWarrior or TechTool Pro?
Are there price breaks for those that purchase one and
want to try the other?
You are never too skinny, you never have too much money, your
I use both. I use Techtool Pro, when I want to test hardware. When it comes
to repairing the OS, I use Diskwarrior. If you can only afford one know,
it's best to start with DiskWarrior. Later on, you can get TechTool Pro. If
you have a newer Mac, and you purchased AppleCare, TechTool Pro comes
Yeah, I don't know why they get mixed up either, given that OS X is so
super-stable and all, but it seems they do.
See Tutorial: Permissions, Accounts, and File Organization
http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20040107175410865
I read it, but it stops exactly where my knowledge does; as I
I am not an expert, but might it have something to do
with the file system?
(I have some hunches, but best left unwritten.)
George
WS PDQ 300 MHz, 512 MB, 10.2 (no updates)
--- Marcin Wichary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yeah, I don't know why they get mixed up either,
given that OS X is so
On Aug 11, 2004, at 2:23 PM, Marcin Wichary wrote:
Yeah, I don't know why they get mixed up either, given that OS X is
so super-stable and all, but it seems they do.
See Tutorial: Permissions, Accounts, and File Organization
http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20040107175410865
I read it,
Aaron, may I borrow some more of your expertise? What would you
recommend in the way of Virus software?
While I have not seemed to have a problem with my Mac, I do seem to see
alot of emails that are carrying viruses around.
But in general what do you recommend?
Thanks,
Byron Gardner
On Aug
Bryon,
To be perfectly honest with you, I don't run anti-virus software on my Mac.
I don't find it necessary. I know what to look for. I just delete it when it
comes in. None of the current viruses out there effect the Mac platform.
They are all Windows viruses. It doesn't mean that someday,
On Aug 11, 2004, at 4:50 PM, B Gardner wrote:
Aaron, may I borrow some more of your expertise? What would you
recommend in the way of Virus software?
While I have not seemed to have a problem with my Mac, I do seem to
see alot of emails that are carrying viruses around.
Sigh. THERE ARE NO MAC
I hear you but I just can't seem to justify 100.00 (per year) for a
virus program and other stuff I just don't need. I would rather spend
60.00 on a single program. I realize that virus on a Mac are the least
of my problems but I am getting an amazing number of them through
email. I believe I
You can't possibly spread them to anyone else unless you physically include
the virus infested attachment when you send you email to a windows machine.
Tom
--
G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and...
Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives |
--
What is the difference between running repair permissions in the
command line and using disk utility to run it??
Pat
--
G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and...
Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives |
-- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks
Be sure to boot off your Panther CD first, and repair the Boot Disk,
followed by repairing disk permissions.
If the suggestions I have seen proffered time and again at other sites
like MacFixIt, etc., are accurate, you should *not* repair permissions using
disk utility *while* booted up on a
Pat, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
What is the difference between running repair permissions in the
command line and using disk utility to run it??
I think nothing really, but unless Disk Utility is run with superuser
status, it may not be able to affect all folders. I do think it have this
Aaron, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Excellent advice. For those people who don't feel comfortable in using the
terminal, following my advice will work just fine.
Yes, but it's actually even better to do what you suggest with Disk
Utlity while booted from the incrementally updated system as the
Jim, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Hi, how and why is this upgrade different from the others that we must
do these procedures before the update?
I'm not sure, but this advice about repairing permissions is old and
still stands up as good preparation before any update or application
installation. It
Aaron Willems [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Be
sure to boot off your Panther CD first, and repair the Boot Disk, followed
by repairing disk permissions. DO THIS BEFORE YOU INSTALL THE UPDATE! After
you install the update, be sure to boot off the CD one more time, and run
disk permissions once again.
On Aug 9, 2004, at 5:16 PM, Michael Richardson wrote:
Since we are on the subject(somewhat,)can I update
from 10.1.5 directly to panther? Or do I have to have
Jaguar first?
No. You can go right to 10.3. all paid upgrades are like that, they
don't require the intervening paid upgrades.
--
Bruce
On Aug 10, 2004, at 5:12 AM, Pat Heidingsfelder wrote:
What is the difference between running repair permissions in the
command line and using disk utility to run it??
Nothing.
--
Bruce Johnson
This is the sig who says 'Ni!'
--
G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and...
Small Dog
On Aug 10, 2004, at 7:30 AM, Andrew Main wrote:
I do maintenance usually in the following order: DiskWarrior (starting
from the DW 3.x CD), then Repair Disk (starting from the Panther CD,
or via Single User Mode), then Repair Permissions (starting from my
normal boot volume). I also have the
You have to purchase 10.3, Panther, in order this run this update.
Aaron
Since we are on the subject(somewhat,)can I update
from 10.1.5 directly to panther? Or do I have to have
Jaguar first?
Michael
--
G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and...
Small Dog Electronics
That's fine.
--
Aaron Willems
My boot CD is only 10.3. Is this going to be a problem?
Z
THE BLUETOOTH MASTER
--
G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and...
Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives |
-- Check our web site for refurbished
It's standard policy. Whenever there is an OS update, you should always run
disk permissions before you install the update.
--
Aaron Willems
Hi, how and why is this upgrade different from the others that we must
do these procedures before the update? Thanks, Jim.
On Aug 9, 2004, at 5:19 PM,
Nothing. Most people, don't feel comfortable using the command line. So my
policy, is to avoid it.
--
Aaron Willems
What is the difference between running repair permissions in the
command line and using disk utility to run it??
Pat
--
G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/
I disagree. You should read Macfixit more often. Many people have problems
after installing an OS X update. Better to be safe than sorry. By the way,
the advice I gave comes straight from MACFIXIT.
--
Aaron Willems
OSX isn't that fragile...heck *Windows* isn't that fragile!
--
G-Books is
I read MacInTouch and MacFixIt every day, and am appalled at how
disastrously messy OS X -- which was supposed to solve all the
problems we were having with the classic OS -- has turned out to be
for many users. The difference is that unlike OS 9 (and earlier),
when trouble comes to OS X it's
On Aug 10, 2004, at 12:21 PM, macnifico wrote:
Hi, Listers!
Yesterday I installed the upgrade with no problems. I DIDN'T run
permissions, the CD, etc.
However, I did run OnyX a few days earlier.
The upgrade is stable, but I do not find it faster.
There were a number of security fixes in this one,
On 10/08/04 15:48, Andrew Main [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I read MacInTouch and MacFixIt every day, and am appalled at how
disastrously messy OS X -- which was supposed to solve all the
problems we were having with the classic OS -- has turned out to be
for many users. The difference is that
On Tue, Aug 10, 2004 at 12:03:50PM -0700, Aaron Willems wrote:
:
: I disagree. You should read Macfixit more often. Many people have problems
: after installing an OS X update. Better to be safe than sorry. By the way,
: the advice I gave comes straight from MACFIXIT.
MacFixit is a guide, not a
Repair Permissions is important; do it early and often, but always (if
possible) from your boot volume.
Could someone kindly explain to me (or point to a website that does so)
why Mac OS X needs this procedure from time to time? I am familiar with
the concept of Unix permissions, I just find it
Marcin Wichary wrote:
Repair Permissions is important; do it early and often, but always
(if possible) from your boot volume.
Could someone kindly explain to me (or point to a website that does
so) why Mac OS X needs this procedure from time to time? I am
familiar with the concept of Unix
The quote below raises the query: Which should I buy?
Which is better, DiskWarrior or TechTool Pro?
Are there price breaks for those that purchase one and
want to try the other?
Don
From today's MacFixIt:
1. Make sure your hard drive is in good shape: Boot
from the OS X
Install CD and run Disk
I just installed OS 10.3.5. I've been running it for 2 hours now with no
problems. I give this advice to anyone who's planning on installing it. Be
sure to boot off your Panther CD first, and repair the Boot Disk, followed
by repairing disk permissions. DO THIS BEFORE YOU INSTALL THE UPDATE! After
Thanks for the Advise.
--- Aaron Willems [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I just installed OS 10.3.5. I've been running it for
2 hours now with no
problems. I give this advice to anyone who's
planning on installing it. Be
sure to boot off your Panther CD first, and repair
the Boot Disk, followed
Aaron, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I just installed OS 10.3.5. I've been running it for 2 hours now with no
problems. I give this advice to anyone who's planning on installing it. Be
sure to boot off your Panther CD first, and repair the Boot Disk, followed
by repairing disk permissions. DO
Excellent advice. For those people who don't feel comfortable in using the
terminal, following my advice will work just fine.
--
Aaron Willems
Network Administrator
Lieberman Productions Philo Television
One could do this from the command line like so:
sudo diskutil repairPermissions /
Since we are on the subject(somewhat,)can I update
from 10.1.5 directly to panther? Or do I have to have
Jaguar first?
Michael
--- Aaron Willems [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Excellent advice. For those people who don't feel
comfortable in using the
terminal, following my advice will work just
On Aug 9, 2004, at 4:52 PM, Aaron Willems wrote:
I just installed OS 10.3.5. I've been running it for 2 hours now with
no
problems. I give this advice to anyone who's planning on installing
it. Be
sure to boot off your Panther CD first, and repair the Boot Disk,
followed
by repairing disk
Hi, how and why is this upgrade different from the others that we must
do these procedures before the update? Thanks, Jim.
On Aug 9, 2004, at 5:19 PM, Zoltan Batiz wrote:
On Aug 9, 2004, at 4:52 PM, Aaron Willems wrote:
I just installed OS 10.3.5. I've been running it for 2 hours now
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