subject:"\[AsburyPark\] Re\: Another"

For me, it's not just a focus on Bruce or anything, it's more the loss of the 
boardwalk vibe 
that I grew up with. 
On the one hand, as a musician, I grew up playing in AP  clubs, and back then 
the scene 
was so much more exciting then it is today. Some might argue that Live Nation 
has 
brought that back to AP, but it's a pale comparison to what we used to have. 
WNEW 
concerts on the beach. Many more venues having great shows every night. The 
combination of a  vibrant boardwalk, the sounds and smells of rides and music 
was magic.
I think we've totally lost that.
I will forever reference the vibe of a place like Austin Texas, which has a 
dedicated music 
district that's alive and well, completely up to date but also paying tribute 
to Austin's 
musical heritage.
Our oceanfront music scene is more about yuppies then anything now.
Not much to inspire the kids to play music, no desire at all to encourage music 
that might 
come out of the west side of town, no Arthur Pryor bandshelljust a strip 
mall by the sea.
I honestly don't think we'll ever see anything more then marginal success as it 
stands now 
because what we have is just generic and lacking soul. We made a huge mistake 
by 
focusing on retail and real estate instead of pure entertainment. 

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer jennifern...@... wrote:

 Jack,
 I guess I don't see the boardwalk through the same eyes.  I never
 expect boardwalks to be grand.  I have lots of very happy boardwalk
 memories and none were fancy.  I grew up in Point Pleasant and worked
 on that boardwalk.  We rolled down the garage doors over the stands to
 lock up at night.  Most people think Point Pleasant is and has always
 been a very nice place.  
 I have also had similar experiences regarding the Bruce - AP
 connection.  I was in Ireland in the summer of 1980 when I told people
 where I was from no one had heard of Pt Pl, so I'd move up to AP next.
  I usually got a Bruce Springsteen response or even a do you know
 Bruce question.  Ireland is a lot smaller than the US.  They figured
 he lived in the next village LOL.  If AP didn't work I had to say I
 was near NYC.
 I have seen many Bruce fans around the city in the last few years and
 they seem very pleased with AP. I've taken a lot of pictures for 
 people standing under the Greetings from Asbury Park lights on CH.  It
 wasn't always like this.  I remember buying a book back in the late
 80's for a Bruce loving boyfriend.  The book described AP as a
 desolate place with an empty beach on the 4th of July.  Not anymore.
 As for a Bruce display, why does it have to be done by the city?  Any
 local business could either borrow or buy Bruce memorabilia and have a
 display.  Just a thought.  
 Hell if Bruce wants to lend All AHEAD some stuff I'd use it as a
 fundraiser for creating and maintaining homeownership in the city. I'm
 not sure how, but I'd figure out some way to make money for the cause.
  Bruce have your people call my people.  
 Jennifer







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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer jennifern...@... wrote:
  Bruce have your people call my people.  
 Jennifer


Very funny.

Goes back to the old line why hasn't bruce opened a club in AP...if he 
meant so much to himself

Or why wouldn't his kids say something like ..dad, dad, can you me and 
mom open our own club.. or get me a condo where you played...

But when you grow up with all the toys and have traveled around the 
world with mom and dad and seehow much does mom and dad tell you 
about those old days...





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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:


The wnew stuff was only around for a few years-  one day. Yep - we'd 
make a killing in a few hours, but NOTHING like being able to open at 
7am and close around midnight, at least in my time. If a big group came 
into town and it was hot - we'd just stay open as long as we could - 
not close at 9pm.

That's how you run a business that relies on hot weather and more - you 
open early and stay open late and you can't do it alone. If someone 
needs to hit a golf ball, play for stuffed animal or share a kohr's as 
it dribbles down your body or ride a carousel or just sit and look at 
the water or lay in the sand - it's called summer. You stay open at 
NIGHT, so people can spend money. Junk food = profit.

It's 11 degrees.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

2009-01-16 Thread sharon_b283

Excellent Post!  You've summed up this town in one simple paragraph.
So sad, but every word is true!  What's in the redevelopment for us? 
Absolutely nothing!  Just speaking Truth to Power!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 The city blew it again.
 Yesterday a major exhibit was announced for the R n R Hall of
Fame... a Bruce exhibit.
 Of course AP will be a part of that exhibit.
 And here we are with our most well known and recognizable export,
with nothing.
 And what do we get?
 A boardwalk with mostly failing high end retail, acres of empty
parking lots, and the ugly 
 piece of crap C8 part 2 destined to mar the landscape for an
indefinite time.
 I guess that's what we get when we allow a company who focuses on
malls and retails to 
 guide our destiny.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

2009-01-16 Thread Gabrielle Obre

once again, my unpopular I heart AP response.

for starters, ap HAS a vibrant music scene, right now. Perhaps it
doesn't stir the emotions of when you were a teen. We live now, not
20, 30 years ago. And the comments I have been hearing from people the
past few summers actually reflect that ap does stir good memories, not
sure how many of you spend time in the local bizes, but I do. I hear
it. I can't wait to check out the Stone Pony. English Beat..yippee.

Its not all high end anything. I think there are two design like
stores that are out of the average persons pay range, so what,
everyone is supposed to live on my budget? good for those who can buy
an 800$ chaise. and wonderful for the retail owners who can pay their
rent with it. this is monmouth county, there is lots of $$ here, let
them spend it in AP.

O'tools is reasonable, that fried food place in CH is reasonable there
were all sorts of little knick knack shops that remind me precisely of
what was BW like years ago.

On the 31st you can sample cocktails for 5 bucks in CH, bring a flask
if you need more of a buzz, then you can walk down to paradise and if
you get there before 9 ish you can dance for free. and be entertained
if you are prone to enjoyment. they usually have drink specials.
langostas menu looks reasonable and the space is beautiful (someone
mentioned they were packed last sat)

the mini waterpark looks like loads of fun, the numerous festivals
that come are a blast, thinking of the beautiful kite one at the
moment, volleyball, road trip etc. there is regularly free music on
the BW.

for someone who mentioned somewhere else they are sick of negativity,
you dish it out a lot Jack. is there anything you like about the place?

as far as the Bruce thing goes, what's the connection other than he
sung about how depressed the place was? I don't need to romanticize
the badlands anymore.

is it perfect? no way. but neither is anything else. I really wish
people would stop bitching about the place which often seems to me
people projecting their general unhappiness onto the world around
them. what you see in the world has more to do with what is in your
head than what is in the world.

its so weird to me, everything you want is already here. except
perhaps the teenage you. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
 
 The wnew stuff was only around for a few years-  one day. Yep - we'd 
 make a killing in a few hours, but NOTHING like being able to open at 
 7am and close around midnight, at least in my time. If a big group came 
 into town and it was hot - we'd just stay open as long as we could - 
 not close at 9pm.
 
 That's how you run a business that relies on hot weather and more - you 
 open early and stay open late and you can't do it alone. If someone 
 needs to hit a golf ball, play for stuffed animal or share a kohr's as 
 it dribbles down your body or ride a carousel or just sit and look at 
 the water or lay in the sand - it's called summer. You stay open at 
 NIGHT, so people can spend money. Junk food = profit.
 
 It's 11 degrees.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

You know what?
I make no apologies about my opinions of AP.
I'm not going to be dishonest to myself or anybody about it.
I think what we have now is a pale version of what we could have, and once had.
I think were merely accepting something marginal, and I don't feel bad at all 
in saying it.
Sorry.
Currently the boardwalk draws a fraction of what it once did. It's better then 
it was in 
recent years, but nothing like what it could be. 
And as part of the local music scene, yes, we have one, but once again, since I 
work in the 
business I feel confident in saying that it also isn't what it could be, but 
it's the best that it 
can be at the moment.
Obviously you don't know much about Springsteen and his connection to the city.
His most famous album is callled Greetings from Asbury Park and the album 
cover is a 
classic post card from it's heyday.
He rose up in the scene playing at local clubs, most of which no longer exist. 
His name is 
inextricably associated with the city.
We all have different likes and dislikes, and there's nothing wrong with 
expressing that.
You ask me what I like about AP? Plenty. I love my classic apartment and being 
so close to 
the beach for a reasonable price. I love the architecture of Convention Hall 
and the 
acoustics of The Paramount. I love The Saint, where I work. I absolutely love 
Cookman 
Avenue because it still has a classic look with character.
But, i greatly dislike the way the boardwalk pavilions have been renovated. It 
says nothing 
at all to me. I don't like the architecture at all. I see a strip mall, but 
that's just me. I 
greatly dislike the fact that the band shell has been eliminated and that 
nobody is taking 
MM to task about it. I think high end retail is a waste of space destined for 
failure.,
On the other hand, I love that there's a bike store there, because bicycling by 
the sea 
really appeals to me. It's a big fixture in Atlantic City, Cape May, and scores 
of similar 
places across the country.
My discontent has nothing to do with the vibe in the country, in fact, AP is a 
safe haven 
away from it because it's my home.
Finally, with all due respect, you've never met me. I'm probably the most 
immature 47 year 
old person I know. Smarter, but still very similar to the teenage me. I'm more 
about 
aesthetics then money, more about The Adriatic then Applebees.
I've also spent a huge amount of time living and working overseas, where they 
tend to 
value history more then we do, and preserve things rather then rebuild, and 
when they do 
rebuild they tend to stay faithful to what went before.
Here in America, it's the opposite for much of the country. We don't build 
buildings to last 
anymore, we build them to knock down and replace because of money. And I think 
that's  
a great loss.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleo...@... wrote:

 once again, my unpopular I heart AP response.
 
 for starters, ap HAS a vibrant music scene, right now. Perhaps it
 doesn't stir the emotions of when you were a teen. We live now, not
 20, 30 years ago. And the comments I have been hearing from people the
 past few summers actually reflect that ap does stir good memories, not
 sure how many of you spend time in the local bizes, but I do. I hear
 it. I can't wait to check out the Stone Pony. English Beat..yippee.
 
 Its not all high end anything. I think there are two design like
 stores that are out of the average persons pay range, so what,
 everyone is supposed to live on my budget? good for those who can buy
 an 800$ chaise. and wonderful for the retail owners who can pay their
 rent with it. this is monmouth county, there is lots of $$ here, let
 them spend it in AP.
 
 O'tools is reasonable, that fried food place in CH is reasonable there
 were all sorts of little knick knack shops that remind me precisely of
 what was BW like years ago.
 
 On the 31st you can sample cocktails for 5 bucks in CH, bring a flask
 if you need more of a buzz, then you can walk down to paradise and if
 you get there before 9 ish you can dance for free. and be entertained
 if you are prone to enjoyment. they usually have drink specials.
 langostas menu looks reasonable and the space is beautiful (someone
 mentioned they were packed last sat)
 
 the mini waterpark looks like loads of fun, the numerous festivals
 that come are a blast, thinking of the beautiful kite one at the
 moment, volleyball, road trip etc. there is regularly free music on
 the BW.
 
 for someone who mentioned somewhere else they are sick of negativity,
 you dish it out a lot Jack. is there anything you like about the place?
 
 as far as the Bruce thing goes, what's the connection other than he
 sung about how depressed the place was? I don't need to romanticize
 the badlands anymore.
 
 is it perfect? no way. but neither is anything else. I really wish
 people would stop bitching about the place which often seems to me
 people projecting their general unhappiness onto the world

[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

2009-01-16 Thread Gabrielle Obre

I certainly wasn't looking for an apology. People can be as unhappy as
they wish. Lots of people live the things would be better if...
life. I just think its kinda sad and I will reiterate it has more to
do with us than the world. I also think your perception about ap is
off and would like others to know that there is a tremendous amount to
enjoy and love here. There are plenty of posts about ap's failings.

i am probably ignorant about springsteen, i mostly listen to lesser
known artists. Loved him when I was 11. springsteen is a tiny drop in
a sea of great music. and he hardly needs the attention.

It also seems sorta pointless to complain here. You should be at city
council meetings. Volunteering for commissions. 

In my experience, the people who complain the most (and i don't just
mean here) are those that don't participate in the vibrancy of the
place; the food, the nightlife, the celebrations. 

people are enjoying it and will probably continue to do so. I wish you
and the others for whom delight is so out of reach would but that's up
to you. the world will never mold to our own ego's specifications so
our choice is to become open loving participants, try to become a
power mongering tyrant, or be miserable. not a difficult choice for
me. (and i love a little dissatisfaction myself once in a while...all
egos do).

I hope others make it to the economical entertainment on the 31st. And
paradise is always a great place to have ...dare i say it, FUN!




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 You know what?
 I make no apologies about my opinions of AP.
 I'm not going to be dishonest to myself or anybody about it.
 I think what we have now is a pale version of what we could have,
and once had.
 I think were merely accepting something marginal, and I don't feel
bad at all in saying it.
 Sorry.
 Currently the boardwalk draws a fraction of what it once did. It's
better then it was in 
 recent years, but nothing like what it could be. 
 And as part of the local music scene, yes, we have one, but once
again, since I work in the 
 business I feel confident in saying that it also isn't what it could
be, but it's the best that it 
 can be at the moment.
 Obviously you don't know much about Springsteen and his connection
to the city.
 His most famous album is callled Greetings from Asbury Park and
the album cover is a 
 classic post card from it's heyday.
 He rose up in the scene playing at local clubs, most of which no
longer exist. His name is 
 inextricably associated with the city.
 We all have different likes and dislikes, and there's nothing wrong
with expressing that.
 You ask me what I like about AP? Plenty. I love my classic apartment
and being so close to 
 the beach for a reasonable price. I love the architecture of
Convention Hall and the 
 acoustics of The Paramount. I love The Saint, where I work. I
absolutely love Cookman 
 Avenue because it still has a classic look with character.
 But, i greatly dislike the way the boardwalk pavilions have been
renovated. It says nothing 
 at all to me. I don't like the architecture at all. I see a strip
mall, but that's just me. I 
 greatly dislike the fact that the band shell has been eliminated and
that nobody is taking 
 MM to task about it. I think high end retail is a waste of space
destined for failure.,
 On the other hand, I love that there's a bike store there, because
bicycling by the sea 
 really appeals to me. It's a big fixture in Atlantic City, Cape May,
and scores of similar 
 places across the country.
 My discontent has nothing to do with the vibe in the country, in
fact, AP is a safe haven 
 away from it because it's my home.
 Finally, with all due respect, you've never met me. I'm probably the
most immature 47 year 
 old person I know. Smarter, but still very similar to the teenage
me. I'm more about 
 aesthetics then money, more about The Adriatic then Applebees.
 I've also spent a huge amount of time living and working overseas,
where they tend to 
 value history more then we do, and preserve things rather then
rebuild, and when they do 
 rebuild they tend to stay faithful to what went before.
 Here in America, it's the opposite for much of the country. We don't
build buildings to last 
 anymore, we build them to knock down and replace because of money.
And I think that's  
 a great loss.
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
wrote:
 
  once again, my unpopular I heart AP response.
  
  for starters, ap HAS a vibrant music scene, right now. Perhaps it
  doesn't stir the emotions of when you were a teen. We live now, not
  20, 30 years ago. And the comments I have been hearing from people the
  past few summers actually reflect that ap does stir good memories, not
  sure how many of you spend time in the local bizes, but I do. I hear
  it. I can't wait to check out the Stone Pony. English Beat..yippee.
  
  Its not all high end anything. I think there are two design like
  stores

[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

I also think your perception about ap is
off

How can you judge somebody else's perception?
That's kinda ridiculous.
Not everybody sees the world thru your eyes.
Sorry, but I disagree.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleo...@... wrote:

 I certainly wasn't looking for an apology. People can be as unhappy as
 they wish. Lots of people live the things would be better if...
 life. I just think its kinda sad and I will reiterate it has more to
 do with us than the world. I also think your perception about ap is
 off and would like others to know that there is a tremendous amount to
 enjoy and love here. There are plenty of posts about ap's failings.
 
 i am probably ignorant about springsteen, i mostly listen to lesser
 known artists. Loved him when I was 11. springsteen is a tiny drop in
 a sea of great music. and he hardly needs the attention.
 
 It also seems sorta pointless to complain here. You should be at city
 council meetings. Volunteering for commissions. 
 
 In my experience, the people who complain the most (and i don't just
 mean here) are those that don't participate in the vibrancy of the
 place; the food, the nightlife, the celebrations. 
 
 people are enjoying it and will probably continue to do so. I wish you
 and the others for whom delight is so out of reach would but that's up
 to you. the world will never mold to our own ego's specifications so
 our choice is to become open loving participants, try to become a
 power mongering tyrant, or be miserable. not a difficult choice for
 me. (and i love a little dissatisfaction myself once in a while...all
 egos do).
 
 I hope others make it to the economical entertainment on the 31st. And
 paradise is always a great place to have ...dare i say it, FUN!
 
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  You know what?
  I make no apologies about my opinions of AP.
  I'm not going to be dishonest to myself or anybody about it.
  I think what we have now is a pale version of what we could have,
 and once had.
  I think were merely accepting something marginal, and I don't feel
 bad at all in saying it.
  Sorry.
  Currently the boardwalk draws a fraction of what it once did. It's
 better then it was in 
  recent years, but nothing like what it could be. 
  And as part of the local music scene, yes, we have one, but once
 again, since I work in the 
  business I feel confident in saying that it also isn't what it could
 be, but it's the best that it 
  can be at the moment.
  Obviously you don't know much about Springsteen and his connection
 to the city.
  His most famous album is callled Greetings from Asbury Park and
 the album cover is a 
  classic post card from it's heyday.
  He rose up in the scene playing at local clubs, most of which no
 longer exist. His name is 
  inextricably associated with the city.
  We all have different likes and dislikes, and there's nothing wrong
 with expressing that.
  You ask me what I like about AP? Plenty. I love my classic apartment
 and being so close to 
  the beach for a reasonable price. I love the architecture of
 Convention Hall and the 
  acoustics of The Paramount. I love The Saint, where I work. I
 absolutely love Cookman 
  Avenue because it still has a classic look with character.
  But, i greatly dislike the way the boardwalk pavilions have been
 renovated. It says nothing 
  at all to me. I don't like the architecture at all. I see a strip
 mall, but that's just me. I 
  greatly dislike the fact that the band shell has been eliminated and
 that nobody is taking 
  MM to task about it. I think high end retail is a waste of space
 destined for failure.,
  On the other hand, I love that there's a bike store there, because
 bicycling by the sea 
  really appeals to me. It's a big fixture in Atlantic City, Cape May,
 and scores of similar 
  places across the country.
  My discontent has nothing to do with the vibe in the country, in
 fact, AP is a safe haven 
  away from it because it's my home.
  Finally, with all due respect, you've never met me. I'm probably the
 most immature 47 year 
  old person I know. Smarter, but still very similar to the teenage
 me. I'm more about 
  aesthetics then money, more about The Adriatic then Applebees.
  I've also spent a huge amount of time living and working overseas,
 where they tend to 
  value history more then we do, and preserve things rather then
 rebuild, and when they do 
  rebuild they tend to stay faithful to what went before.
  Here in America, it's the opposite for much of the country. We don't
 build buildings to last 
  anymore, we build them to knock down and replace because of money.
 And I think that's  
  a great loss.
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
 wrote:
  
   once again, my unpopular I heart AP response.
   
   for starters, ap HAS a vibrant music scene, right now. Perhaps it
   doesn't stir the emotions of when you were a teen. We live now, not

[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

2009-01-16 Thread sandpiper15

I'll post this again:

http://nicoleatkinsblog.blogspot.com/2008/12/sweet-home-new-
orleans.html

Thoughts? You work at the Saint. What IS the music scene like there 
in town now? Is there a way for the musicians and club owners to work 
together to nurture a scene, independent from government or big 
business help/interference? If yes, why isn't it happening? What 
would it take? You've mentioned Austin. The city council didn't 
create the scene there. The Clifford Antones of the world did. Plus 
that's a college town. The audience is always around. How do you 
nurture a scene in a region from which the young tend to flee? And is 
the boardwalk the only thoroughfare on which it can happen? MM 
doesn't run the show on Main Street. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 You know what?
 I make no apologies about my opinions of AP.
 I'm not going to be dishonest to myself or anybody about it.
 I think what we have now is a pale version of what we could have, 
and once had.
 I think were merely accepting something marginal, and I don't feel 
bad at all in saying it.
 Sorry.
 Currently the boardwalk draws a fraction of what it once did. It's 
better then it was in 
 recent years, but nothing like what it could be. 
 And as part of the local music scene, yes, we have one, but once 
again, since I work in the 
 business I feel confident in saying that it also isn't what it 
could be, but it's the best that it 
 can be at the moment.
 Obviously you don't know much about Springsteen and his connection 
to the city.
 His most famous album is callled Greetings from Asbury Park and 
the album cover is a 
 classic post card from it's heyday.
 He rose up in the scene playing at local clubs, most of which no 
longer exist. His name is 
 inextricably associated with the city.
 We all have different likes and dislikes, and there's nothing wrong 
with expressing that.
 You ask me what I like about AP? Plenty. I love my classic 
apartment and being so close to 
 the beach for a reasonable price. I love the architecture of 
Convention Hall and the 
 acoustics of The Paramount. I love The Saint, where I work. I 
absolutely love Cookman 
 Avenue because it still has a classic look with character.
 But, i greatly dislike the way the boardwalk pavilions have been 
renovated. It says nothing 
 at all to me. I don't like the architecture at all. I see a strip 
mall, but that's just me. I 
 greatly dislike the fact that the band shell has been eliminated 
and that nobody is taking 
 MM to task about it. I think high end retail is a waste of space 
destined for failure.,
 On the other hand, I love that there's a bike store there, because 
bicycling by the sea 
 really appeals to me. It's a big fixture in Atlantic City, Cape 
May, and scores of similar 
 places across the country.
 My discontent has nothing to do with the vibe in the country, in 
fact, AP is a safe haven 
 away from it because it's my home.
 Finally, with all due respect, you've never met me. I'm probably 
the most immature 47 year 
 old person I know. Smarter, but still very similar to the teenage 
me. I'm more about 
 aesthetics then money, more about The Adriatic then Applebees.
 I've also spent a huge amount of time living and working overseas, 
where they tend to 
 value history more then we do, and preserve things rather then 
rebuild, and when they do 
 rebuild they tend to stay faithful to what went before.
 Here in America, it's the opposite for much of the country. We 
don't build buildings to last 
 anymore, we build them to knock down and replace because of money. 
And I think that's  
 a great loss.
 





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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

The Saint has a great scene. We have a core of locals, and lot's of people who 
come from 
places as far as NYC, Brooklyn and PA to attend our shows.
Last Saturday, we had a packed house when Val Emmich played. He's been on Ugly 
Betty 
and 30 Rock a few times.
There is a core underground AP music movement, and a good place to find out 
more is at 
this website:

http://asburymusician.ning.com/

But the interesting thing in the AP music scene, which is probably pretty 
common, is that 
it can be very cliquish without much cross pollination. This is probably 
because most of 
our venues pretty much have their own niche, such as Asbury Lanes is very into 
garage 
rock and really cool specialty shows,  the Saint is more intimate and local, 
The Wonder Bar 
is more mainstream and safe, although the shows they did while the Pony was 
closed were 
a real departure from what normally happens there. It's good that there's 
something for 
almost everybody, but it's just not quite the way it was back in the 80's, but 
I guess 
nothing really is any more. Back then, the local music scene was so much more 
exciting, 
with lots more clubs and much more club hopping. And we had a very prominent 
radio 
station, WHTG, which held it all together. They were pretty visionary, and the 
now famous 
Matt Pinfield was a major DJ there. Local bands got lots of airplay and 
interview time. Back 
then, radio was pretty much king, where now the internet is king. It was easier 
for working 
people back then to just keep WHTG on all day, which was common all across the 
local 
music scene. Everybody listened to it. Now, the main delivery method is the 
internet, 
which is a pretty short attention span medium, and I truly believe that it's 
had both a 
positive and negative effect on local music. The positive is that it's so much 
easier to 
spread the word about your band, but the competition is much more fierce when 
you have 
so many bands promoting themselves, compared to one cohesive radio station 
holding 
our attention.


The funny thing is we are so close to Monmouth University, but I don't really 
see many MU 
people coming out to AP shows. They are more likely to go to cover band bars 
and a 
certain place on Brighton Ave. in LB.

But, times have really changed. It's more expensive to go out to shows these 
days, and 
some people balk at paying a $10 admission and $6 beer, which can become an 
pretty 
expensive night out.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpipe...@... wrote:

 I'll post this again:
 
 http://nicoleatkinsblog.blogspot.com/2008/12/sweet-home-new-
 orleans.html
 
 Thoughts? You work at the Saint. What IS the music scene like there 
 in town now? Is there a way for the musicians and club owners to work 
 together to nurture a scene, independent from government or big 
 business help/interference? If yes, why isn't it happening? What 
 would it take? You've mentioned Austin. The city council didn't 
 create the scene there. The Clifford Antones of the world did. Plus 
 that's a college town. The audience is always around. How do you 
 nurture a scene in a region from which the young tend to flee? And is 
 the boardwalk the only thoroughfare on which it can happen? MM 
 doesn't run the show on Main Street. 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  You know what?
  I make no apologies about my opinions of AP.
  I'm not going to be dishonest to myself or anybody about it.
  I think what we have now is a pale version of what we could have, 
 and once had.
  I think were merely accepting something marginal, and I don't feel 
 bad at all in saying it.
  Sorry.
  Currently the boardwalk draws a fraction of what it once did. It's 
 better then it was in 
  recent years, but nothing like what it could be. 
  And as part of the local music scene, yes, we have one, but once 
 again, since I work in the 
  business I feel confident in saying that it also isn't what it 
 could be, but it's the best that it 
  can be at the moment.
  Obviously you don't know much about Springsteen and his connection 
 to the city.
  His most famous album is callled Greetings from Asbury Park and 
 the album cover is a 
  classic post card from it's heyday.
  He rose up in the scene playing at local clubs, most of which no 
 longer exist. His name is 
  inextricably associated with the city.
  We all have different likes and dislikes, and there's nothing wrong 
 with expressing that.
  You ask me what I like about AP? Plenty. I love my classic 
 apartment and being so close to 
  the beach for a reasonable price. I love the architecture of 
 Convention Hall and the 
  acoustics of The Paramount. I love The Saint, where I work. I 
 absolutely love Cookman 
  Avenue because it still has a classic look with character.
  But, i greatly dislike the way the boardwalk pavilions have been 
 renovated. It says nothing 
  at all to me. I don't like the architecture at all. I see a strip 
 mall, but that's

[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 The Saint has a great scene. 

When we were in HS and College (we're the same age) we had the 
original Saint - The Clover Club. 2fers, cheap beer and kamikaze 
pitchers. They had a pool table I can sit here and recall the 
ride from sea bright to Belmar and once in while- dumps in 
Brick,Point or Seaside. 

In those days Long Branch we had the Pier. Frat nights for free or $1.

I never heard of a cosmoHeinekens were a treat as was stealing 
cases of st pauli girls from my friends grandfathers garage in deal...

College was real easy. We just made the drinking age of 18. 

How much do you think that killed the scene. You drank and drove 
but had brains, right? You got stopped - you pretty much would be 
told to go home. 

Not just the drinking age laws - but the promos as well - 2 fer 1, 
free booze hours, ladies free, and a hell lot more bands that were 
either free or what I thought was cheap. How much was booze? The 
boathouse was the rescue and we had .75 lowenbrau mugs...

The MU kids now try to party at home with closed blinds so they don't 
get raided 

It's not yesterday - it's today. Times are different and the laws 
have changed. As have many peoples spending habits...

and at MU, according to my dad, they dropped about 250 kids from the 
spring semester - above average drop rate. Could be tied to parents $.

Do the kids at MU really care about Springsteen? Or will they go 
where their friends are or where THEY know or hop in a car and go to 
AC or NYC... or hang in the basement of that rented house in ocean 
with the kegs running?




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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

I'd love to see some photos of the Clover Club.
I also think that in general, college age kids could care less about 
Springsteen music. I 
was thinking more about his role in music tourism to AP, but who knows. I'm 
probably 
wrong, and while he's huge in the world, he's not as vital as he was during the 
arena rock 
days.
His new CD seems to be disliked even by hardcore fans.
I definitely agree about the 18 issue. I just made it too. I can recall going 
to The Pour 
House in Tinton Falls for lunch during my senior year. Those were the days.
I also recall working at the Haunted Mansion. I did that for one summer for a 
whopping 
$3.10 an hour and loving it. Good times.
Maybe I'm just too nostalgic. I loved the time period we are talking about. 
Loved working 
at Criterion Chocolates in 2 locations in AP, 1 in Ocean Grove and 1 on the LB 
boardwalk.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  The Saint has a great scene. 
 
 When we were in HS and College (we're the same age) we had the 
 original Saint - The Clover Club. 2fers, cheap beer and kamikaze 
 pitchers. They had a pool table I can sit here and recall the 
 ride from sea bright to Belmar and once in while- dumps in 
 Brick,Point or Seaside. 
 
 In those days Long Branch we had the Pier. Frat nights for free or $1.
 
 I never heard of a cosmoHeinekens were a treat as was stealing 
 cases of st pauli girls from my friends grandfathers garage in deal...
 
 College was real easy. We just made the drinking age of 18. 
 
 How much do you think that killed the scene. You drank and drove 
 but had brains, right? You got stopped - you pretty much would be 
 told to go home. 
 
 Not just the drinking age laws - but the promos as well - 2 fer 1, 
 free booze hours, ladies free, and a hell lot more bands that were 
 either free or what I thought was cheap. How much was booze? The 
 boathouse was the rescue and we had .75 lowenbrau mugs...
 
 The MU kids now try to party at home with closed blinds so they don't 
 get raided 
 
 It's not yesterday - it's today. Times are different and the laws 
 have changed. As have many peoples spending habits...
 
 and at MU, according to my dad, they dropped about 250 kids from the 
 spring semester - above average drop rate. Could be tied to parents $.
 
 Do the kids at MU really care about Springsteen? Or will they go 
 where their friends are or where THEY know or hop in a car and go to 
 AC or NYC... or hang in the basement of that rented house in ocean 
 with the kegs running?







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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 I'd love to see some photos of the Clover Club.

Now you're asking for alot.

No cell phones, no digital cameras so no drunk facebook pics.


 I also think that in general, college age kids could care less 
about Springsteen music

..exactly - just once in awhile my kid will blast it - but that and 
thousands of other choices on the iPod. 
Not a couple cassettes stuck in your car.

 at Criterion Chocolates in 2 locations in AP, 1 in Ocean Grove and 
1 on the LB boardwalk.

And I miss the Criterion girls and Kohr's girls. 

It used to be so easy to barter.

You want a tab and fries? Free ice cream?

no problem.

I got sweedish fish,taffy, Kohrs shakes and a few other dates here 
and there wathcing those summer students from up north guzzling long 
island ice teas and doing shots. then off to Xandau...
Life changes.

Now I'm looking to barter adspace for an apartment in NYC. See if 
this works.

The CC was a classic.

Bring that back and camarano's in Long branch... I'll end it now.

When you hit the megamill, let me know.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

Here's an interesting tidbit about Criterion Chocolates.
The factor has pretty much always been in Eatontown, and the original candy 
maker was a 
cranky German guy named Adolph Shultz
He was a mechanical genius, and hand built all of the crazy candy making 
machines that 
still exist in the factory. This included a cooling tunnel exactly like the one 
in the famous 
I Love Lucy sketch, which had the same type of  conveyor belt and women hand 
picking 
them. 
That was pretty much the best smelling place I ever worked at. 
Huge vats of molten milk and dark chocolate.
Yum.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  I'd love to see some photos of the Clover Club.
 
 Now you're asking for alot.
 
 No cell phones, no digital cameras so no drunk facebook pics.
 
 
  I also think that in general, college age kids could care less 
 about Springsteen music
 
 ..exactly - just once in awhile my kid will blast it - but that and 
 thousands of other choices on the iPod. 
 Not a couple cassettes stuck in your car.
 
  at Criterion Chocolates in 2 locations in AP, 1 in Ocean Grove and 
 1 on the LB boardwalk.
 
 And I miss the Criterion girls and Kohr's girls. 
 
 It used to be so easy to barter.
 
 You want a tab and fries? Free ice cream?
 
 no problem.
 
 I got sweedish fish,taffy, Kohrs shakes and a few other dates here 
 and there wathcing those summer students from up north guzzling long 
 island ice teas and doing shots. then off to Xandau...
 Life changes.
 
 Now I'm looking to barter adspace for an apartment in NYC. See if 
 this works.
 
 The CC was a classic.
 
 Bring that back and camarano's in Long branch... I'll end it now.
 
 When you hit the megamill, let me know.







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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

2009-01-16 Thread dapawprint


The only pictures that I can find of The Clover Club:

http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/005/005QRj-13430584.jpg
http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/005/005QRj-13430584.jpg

http://flickr.com/photos/joeypatina/3076836949/sizes/o/
http://flickr.com/photos/joeypatina/3076836949/sizes/o/

Glenn




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 I'd love to see some photos of the Clover Club.
 I also think that in general, college age kids could care less about
Springsteen music. I
 was thinking more about his role in music tourism to AP, but who
knows. I'm probably
 wrong, and while he's huge in the world, he's not as vital as he was
during the arena rock
 days.
 His new CD seems to be disliked even by hardcore fans.
 I definitely agree about the 18 issue. I just made it too. I can
recall going to The Pour
 House in Tinton Falls for lunch during my senior year. Those were the
days.
 I also recall working at the Haunted Mansion. I did that for one
summer for a whopping
 $3.10 an hour and loving it. Good times.
 Maybe I'm just too nostalgic. I loved the time period we are talking
about. Loved working
 at Criterion Chocolates in 2 locations in AP, 1 in Ocean Grove and 1
on the LB boardwalk.


 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote:
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
  
   The Saint has a great scene.
 
  When we were in HS and College (we're the same age) we had the
  original Saint - The Clover Club. 2fers, cheap beer and kamikaze
  pitchers. They had a pool table I can sit here and recall the
  ride from sea bright to Belmar and once in while- dumps in
  Brick,Point or Seaside.
 
  In those days Long Branch we had the Pier. Frat nights for free or
$1.
 
  I never heard of a cosmoHeinekens were a treat as was stealing
  cases of st pauli girls from my friends grandfathers garage in
deal...
 
  College was real easy. We just made the drinking age of 18.
 
  How much do you think that killed the scene. You drank and drove
  but had brains, right? You got stopped - you pretty much would be
  told to go home.
 
  Not just the drinking age laws - but the promos as well - 2 fer 1,
  free booze hours, ladies free, and a hell lot more bands that were
  either free or what I thought was cheap. How much was booze? The
  boathouse was the rescue and we had .75 lowenbrau mugs...
 
  The MU kids now try to party at home with closed blinds so they
don't
  get raided
 
  It's not yesterday - it's today. Times are different and the laws
  have changed. As have many peoples spending habits...
 
  and at MU, according to my dad, they dropped about 250 kids from the
  spring semester - above average drop rate. Could be tied to parents
$.
 
  Do the kids at MU really care about Springsteen? Or will they go
  where their friends are or where THEY know or hop in a car and go to
  AC or NYC... or hang in the basement of that rented house in ocean
  with the kegs running?
 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

2009-01-16 Thread sharon_b283

Know what?  I'mm old enough to be both of your mothers, but I have 
the same attitude as YOU do!  Nostalgia my you know what!  Those 
were YOUR times, YOUR memories and I don't see a damn thing wrong 
with that!

I can see it through your eyes, as I have kids your age, the whole 
WNEW thing, which coming out of the 60's, I would write the notes to 
Neptune High School allowing my kids to skip to be released for 
a once in a lifetime day!

I received a phone call at my job, because the principal didn't 
believe I wrote it, (the note)! Yes, I was a regular drill sargeant 
at home, because with 5 kids, I didn't see why they couldn't keep 
order at home!  My idea of a good time, was to pack the car and go up 
to Yankee Stadium to see a game or in the summer go to the 
Meadowlands for a Budweiser Beer Fest!  I'm sure my kids thought I 
was a pain in the ass, more than once!  I call it discipline!

You only get one childhood, so why can't it be happy? Anyway, my kids 
still recall many of the group things we did together, especially 
since they didn't have to pay for anything!  I've gotten early 
tans, because one of them was playing Babe Ruth Ball or driving to 
Delaware to see my youngest son run in college.

Oak and Jack, I'm feeling BOTH of you and I'm on the same page as 
you! So what!  Someone in this group always sees what others do or 
feel as insignificant because THEY can't relate, but trust me, I do 
and I'm glad you remember when the drinking age dropped to 18.  Both 
of my sons could then meet up with us and have a drink on who?  Us!  
Of course!  Keep your memories close!  Some of us can't relate, but 
damn it I do!  I still party, have a good time and get my drunk on 
sometimes!  At least I tell the truth!

I never had the guts to go into the Haunted Mansion, but my scary 
girls went and came out all shook up!  I laughed until I cried when I 
was told the rats ran across one daughters feet and she jumped on her 
brothers back for the rest of the ride!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 I'd love to see some photos of the Clover Club.
 I also think that in general, college age kids could care less 
about Springsteen music. I 
 was thinking more about his role in music tourism to AP, but who 
knows. I'm probably 
 wrong, and while he's huge in the world, he's not as vital as he 
was during the arena rock 
 days.
 His new CD seems to be disliked even by hardcore fans.
 I definitely agree about the 18 issue. I just made it too. I can 
recall going to The Pour 
 House in Tinton Falls for lunch during my senior year. Those were 
the days.
 I also recall working at the Haunted Mansion. I did that for one 
summer for a whopping 
 $3.10 an hour and loving it. Good times.
 Maybe I'm just too nostalgic. I loved the time period we are 
talking about. Loved working 
 at Criterion Chocolates in 2 locations in AP, 1 in Ocean Grove and 
1 on the LB boardwalk.
 





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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

2009-01-15 Thread sandpiper15

Your points in the second half of your post are valid, but I'm not 
sure I see a connection between those points and the city blowing 
anything in the context of the Hall of Fame exhibit. 

If you look at the Hall's Web site, there is no announcement. And the 
Associated Press article was noticeably short and devoid of 
detail. Rock Hall officials today couldn't disclose any specifics 
about what the exhibit will include, except to say it's a work in 
progress. So all anyone knows for sure is that there will be an 
exhibit, and it is tentatively titled ''From Asbury Park to the 
Promised Land: The Life and Music of Bruce Springsteen''

Since the arc of both his life and music began not in Asbury 
Park, but rather Freehold (and, to a lesser extent, Middletown and 
Sea Bright) it seems like based on the title alone the city has 
already come out ahead of the game - at least in terms of PR. 

If I were a resident of Freehold, however, I think I'd be a little 
miffed. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 The city blew it again.
 Yesterday a major exhibit was announced for the R n R Hall of 
Fame... a Bruce exhibit.
 Of course AP will be a part of that exhibit.
 And here we are with our most well known and recognizable export, 
with nothing.
 And what do we get?
 A boardwalk with mostly failing high end retail, acres of empty 
parking lots, and the ugly 
 piece of crap C8 part 2 destined to mar the landscape for an 
indefinite time.
 I guess that's what we get when we allow a company who focuses on 
malls and retails to 
 guide our destiny.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

Valid points, all of them, but the fact is that Bruce Springsteen and Asbury 
Park will be 
forever linked for so many reasons.
I see people taking their photos all the time in front of the Stone Pony, and I 
tend to think 
that the only reason they do so is because of it's connection to Bruce.
I've told this story before, but a few years ago I was working at the German 
MTV music 
video awards in Hannover Germany.
I was wandering around the location, which was the Worlds Fair where it was 
being shot, 
and proudly wearing my Vaccarro Guitars shirt which features the name Asbury 
Park, NJ
I can't tell you how many people stopped me to ask about the shirt, and 2 
really nice 
women actually offered to buy the shirt right off my back. They kept asking if 
I knew Bruce 
and all sorts of related questions. And this happened to me many times.
Many of us in AP have said for years that AP is completely ignoring the concept 
of music 
tourism as it relates to Bruce and the rich musical heritage that pretty much 
put the city on 
the world map for many people.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpipe...@... wrote:

 Your points in the second half of your post are valid, but I'm not 
 sure I see a connection between those points and the city blowing 
 anything in the context of the Hall of Fame exhibit. 
 
 If you look at the Hall's Web site, there is no announcement. And the 
 Associated Press article was noticeably short and devoid of 
 detail. Rock Hall officials today couldn't disclose any specifics 
 about what the exhibit will include, except to say it's a work in 
 progress. So all anyone knows for sure is that there will be an 
 exhibit, and it is tentatively titled ''From Asbury Park to the 
 Promised Land: The Life and Music of Bruce Springsteen''
 
 Since the arc of both his life and music began not in Asbury 
 Park, but rather Freehold (and, to a lesser extent, Middletown and 
 Sea Bright) it seems like based on the title alone the city has 
 already come out ahead of the game - at least in terms of PR. 
 
 If I were a resident of Freehold, however, I think I'd be a little 
 miffed. 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  The city blew it again.
  Yesterday a major exhibit was announced for the R n R Hall of 
 Fame... a Bruce exhibit.
  Of course AP will be a part of that exhibit.
  And here we are with our most well known and recognizable export, 
 with nothing.
  And what do we get?
  A boardwalk with mostly failing high end retail, acres of empty 
 parking lots, and the ugly 
  piece of crap C8 part 2 destined to mar the landscape for an 
 indefinite time.
  I guess that's what we get when we allow a company who focuses on 
 malls and retails to 
  guide our destiny.
 







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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

Valid points, all of them, but the fact is that Bruce Springsteen and Asbury 
Park will be 
forever linked for so many reasons.
I see people taking their photos all the time in front of the Stone Pony, and I 
tend to think 
that the only reason they do so is because of it's connection to Bruce.
I've told this story before, but a few years ago I was working at the German 
MTV music 
video awards in Hannover Germany.
I was wandering around the location, which was the Worlds Fair where it was 
being shot, 
and proudly wearing my Vaccarro Guitars shirt which features the name Asbury 
Park, NJ
I can't tell you how many people stopped me to ask about the shirt, and 2 
really nice 
women actually offered to buy the shirt right off my back. They kept asking if 
I knew Bruce 
and all sorts of related questions. And this happened to me many times.
Many of us in AP have said for years that AP is completely ignoring the concept 
of music 
tourism as it relates to Bruce and the rich musical heritage that pretty much 
put the city on 
the world map for many people.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpipe...@... wrote:

 Your points in the second half of your post are valid, but I'm not 
 sure I see a connection between those points and the city blowing 
 anything in the context of the Hall of Fame exhibit. 
 
 If you look at the Hall's Web site, there is no announcement. And the 
 Associated Press article was noticeably short and devoid of 
 detail. Rock Hall officials today couldn't disclose any specifics 
 about what the exhibit will include, except to say it's a work in 
 progress. So all anyone knows for sure is that there will be an 
 exhibit, and it is tentatively titled ''From Asbury Park to the 
 Promised Land: The Life and Music of Bruce Springsteen''
 
 Since the arc of both his life and music began not in Asbury 
 Park, but rather Freehold (and, to a lesser extent, Middletown and 
 Sea Bright) it seems like based on the title alone the city has 
 already come out ahead of the game - at least in terms of PR. 
 
 If I were a resident of Freehold, however, I think I'd be a little 
 miffed. 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  The city blew it again.
  Yesterday a major exhibit was announced for the R n R Hall of 
 Fame... a Bruce exhibit.
  Of course AP will be a part of that exhibit.
  And here we are with our most well known and recognizable export, 
 with nothing.
  And what do we get?
  A boardwalk with mostly failing high end retail, acres of empty 
 parking lots, and the ugly 
  piece of crap C8 part 2 destined to mar the landscape for an 
 indefinite time.
  I guess that's what we get when we allow a company who focuses on 
 malls and retails to 
  guide our destiny.
 







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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

2009-01-15 Thread sandpiper15

Well, I don't wish to belabor the point, but while I think everyone 
can agree with what your saying here, I still don't see how the 
city blew anything vis a vis the Hall of Fame. When you used the 
adverb again after blew it, that sounded like there was an 
opportunity the city had regarding this particular exhibit, and that 
they lost that opportunity through inaction.

Or is it more that this exhibit simply reminds you that the city has 
dropped the ball on cultural tourism continually over the course of 
many years? 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 Valid points, all of them, but the fact is that Bruce Springsteen 
and Asbury Park will be 
 forever linked for so many reasons.
 I see people taking their photos all the time in front of the Stone 
Pony, and I tend to think 
 that the only reason they do so is because of it's connection to 
Bruce.
 I've told this story before, but a few years ago I was working at 
the German MTV music 
 video awards in Hannover Germany.
 I was wandering around the location, which was the Worlds Fair 
where it was being shot, 
 and proudly wearing my Vaccarro Guitars shirt which features the 
name Asbury Park, NJ
 I can't tell you how many people stopped me to ask about the shirt, 
and 2 really nice 
 women actually offered to buy the shirt right off my back. They 
kept asking if I knew Bruce 
 and all sorts of related questions. And this happened to me many 
times.
 Many of us in AP have said for years that AP is completely ignoring 
the concept of music 
 tourism as it relates to Bruce and the rich musical heritage that 
pretty much put the city on 
 the world map for many people.
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpiper15@ 
wrote:
 
  Your points in the second half of your post are valid, but I'm 
not 
  sure I see a connection between those points and the 
city blowing 
  anything in the context of the Hall of Fame exhibit. 
  
  If you look at the Hall's Web site, there is no announcement. And 
the 
  Associated Press article was noticeably short and devoid of 
  detail. Rock Hall officials today couldn't disclose any 
specifics 
  about what the exhibit will include, except to say it's a work in 
  progress. So all anyone knows for sure is that there will be an 
  exhibit, and it is tentatively titled ''From Asbury Park to the 
  Promised Land: The Life and Music of Bruce Springsteen''
  
  Since the arc of both his life and music began not in Asbury 
  Park, but rather Freehold (and, to a lesser extent, Middletown 
and 
  Sea Bright) it seems like based on the title alone the city has 
  already come out ahead of the game - at least in terms of PR. 
  
  If I were a resident of Freehold, however, I think I'd be a 
little 
  miffed. 
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
  
   The city blew it again.
   Yesterday a major exhibit was announced for the R n R Hall of 
  Fame... a Bruce exhibit.
   Of course AP will be a part of that exhibit.
   And here we are with our most well known and recognizable 
export, 
  with nothing.
   And what do we get?
   A boardwalk with mostly failing high end retail, acres of empty 
  parking lots, and the ugly 
   piece of crap C8 part 2 destined to mar the landscape for an 
  indefinite time.
   I guess that's what we get when we allow a company who focuses 
on 
  malls and retails to 
   guide our destiny.
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

Yes, I am saying exactly what you said in your second paragraph.
To me, the fact is that a Bruce exhibit should've been a part of our 
redevelopment.
Not only Bruce, but the many bands and musicians who've shaped our musical 
legacy, 
such as Arthur Pryor. There was a time when Asbury Park as a place to go for 
music was 
way on the map in our culture. It was even mentioned in The Honeymooners
Once Bruce, Bon Jovi and Southside John came along, it only added more legend 
to the 
story.
But, the city has all but forgotten about it.
What's lost to me as that we didn't even take a stab at establishing anything 
related to our 
music heritage. I often mention Austin TX as a nice role model for AP. Music is 
Austins 
life, and with it they have a film industry. a world class music festival in 
South by South 
West, a whole district that's one club after another...and on and on. 
We could, and should have that. We have a dedicated core of new musicians here, 
but we 
only have a disjointed and tiny group of clubs for them to work in, and to 
attact big names 
to. We simply aren't connecting our musical music scene with our musical past.
And it's not just about the S.O.A.P or current rock that comes from here. We're 
ignoring 
the west side, and that should be celebrated and encouraged too.
AP could and should be like Memphis, Nashville and Austin all rolled into one.
But instead, we have a few venues, acres of mostly empty parking, and a 
complete lack of 
a cohesive and walkable music scene that could sustain itself.
I wish I had tons of money, because I'm sure the vision I share with so  many 
others could 
be created in AP, and it would breath life into what we currently have.
The Stone Pony won't do this by itself, nor will the other venues. But, if the 
whole 
oceanfront area and surrounding blocks were made into a wide variety of 
upscale, 
downscale and unique performance venues, coupled with a museum about our 
history, 
and some dining thrown inwe'd have something special, and successful.
Entertainment is fairly recession proof...

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpipe...@... wrote:

 Well, I don't wish to belabor the point, but while I think everyone 
 can agree with what your saying here, I still don't see how the 
 city blew anything vis a vis the Hall of Fame. When you used the 
 adverb again after blew it, that sounded like there was an 
 opportunity the city had regarding this particular exhibit, and that 
 they lost that opportunity through inaction.
 
 Or is it more that this exhibit simply reminds you that the city has 
 dropped the ball on cultural tourism continually over the course of 
 many years? 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  Valid points, all of them, but the fact is that Bruce Springsteen 
 and Asbury Park will be 
  forever linked for so many reasons.
  I see people taking their photos all the time in front of the Stone 
 Pony, and I tend to think 
  that the only reason they do so is because of it's connection to 
 Bruce.
  I've told this story before, but a few years ago I was working at 
 the German MTV music 
  video awards in Hannover Germany.
  I was wandering around the location, which was the Worlds Fair 
 where it was being shot, 
  and proudly wearing my Vaccarro Guitars shirt which features the 
 name Asbury Park, NJ
  I can't tell you how many people stopped me to ask about the shirt, 
 and 2 really nice 
  women actually offered to buy the shirt right off my back. They 
 kept asking if I knew Bruce 
  and all sorts of related questions. And this happened to me many 
 times.
  Many of us in AP have said for years that AP is completely ignoring 
 the concept of music 
  tourism as it relates to Bruce and the rich musical heritage that 
 pretty much put the city on 
  the world map for many people.
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpiper15@ 
 wrote:
  
   Your points in the second half of your post are valid, but I'm 
 not 
   sure I see a connection between those points and the 
 city blowing 
   anything in the context of the Hall of Fame exhibit. 
   
   If you look at the Hall's Web site, there is no announcement. And 
 the 
   Associated Press article was noticeably short and devoid of 
   detail. Rock Hall officials today couldn't disclose any 
 specifics 
   about what the exhibit will include, except to say it's a work in 
   progress. So all anyone knows for sure is that there will be an 
   exhibit, and it is tentatively titled ''From Asbury Park to the 
   Promised Land: The Life and Music of Bruce Springsteen''
   
   Since the arc of both his life and music began not in Asbury 
   Park, but rather Freehold (and, to a lesser extent, Middletown 
 and 
   Sea Bright) it seems like based on the title alone the city has 
   already come out ahead of the game - at least in terms of PR. 
   
   If I were a resident of Freehold, however, I think I'd be a 
 little 
   miffed.

[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

Yes, I am saying exactly what you said in your second paragraph.
To me, the fact is that a Bruce exhibit should've been a part of our 
redevelopment.
Not only Bruce, but the many bands and musicians who've shaped our musical 
legacy, 
such as Arthur Pryor. There was a time when Asbury Park as a place to go for 
music was 
way on the map in our culture. It was even mentioned in The Honeymooners
Once Bruce, Bon Jovi and Southside John came along, it only added more legend 
to the 
story.
But, the city has all but forgotten about it.
What's lost to me as that we didn't even take a stab at establishing anything 
related to our 
music heritage. I often mention Austin TX as a nice role model for AP. Music is 
Austins 
life, and with it they have a film industry. a world class music festival in 
South by South 
West, a whole district that's one club after another...and on and on. 
We could, and should have that. We have a dedicated core of new musicians here, 
but we 
only have a disjointed and tiny group of clubs for them to work in, and to 
attact big names 
to. We simply aren't connecting our musical music scene with our musical past.
And it's not just about the S.O.A.P or current rock that comes from here. We're 
ignoring 
the west side, and that should be celebrated and encouraged too.
AP could and should be like Memphis, Nashville and Austin all rolled into one.
But instead, we have a few venues, acres of mostly empty parking, and a 
complete lack of 
a cohesive and walkable music scene that could sustain itself.
I wish I had tons of money, because I'm sure the vision I share with so  many 
others could 
be created in AP, and it would breath life into what we currently have.
The Stone Pony won't do this by itself, nor will the other venues. But, if the 
whole 
oceanfront area and surrounding blocks were made into a wide variety of 
upscale, 
downscale and unique performance venues, coupled with a museum about our 
history, 
and some dining thrown inwe'd have something special, and successful.
Entertainment is fairly recession proof...

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpipe...@... wrote:

 Well, I don't wish to belabor the point, but while I think everyone 
 can agree with what your saying here, I still don't see how the 
 city blew anything vis a vis the Hall of Fame. When you used the 
 adverb again after blew it, that sounded like there was an 
 opportunity the city had regarding this particular exhibit, and that 
 they lost that opportunity through inaction.
 
 Or is it more that this exhibit simply reminds you that the city has 
 dropped the ball on cultural tourism continually over the course of 
 many years? 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  Valid points, all of them, but the fact is that Bruce Springsteen 
 and Asbury Park will be 
  forever linked for so many reasons.
  I see people taking their photos all the time in front of the Stone 
 Pony, and I tend to think 
  that the only reason they do so is because of it's connection to 
 Bruce.
  I've told this story before, but a few years ago I was working at 
 the German MTV music 
  video awards in Hannover Germany.
  I was wandering around the location, which was the Worlds Fair 
 where it was being shot, 
  and proudly wearing my Vaccarro Guitars shirt which features the 
 name Asbury Park, NJ
  I can't tell you how many people stopped me to ask about the shirt, 
 and 2 really nice 
  women actually offered to buy the shirt right off my back. They 
 kept asking if I knew Bruce 
  and all sorts of related questions. And this happened to me many 
 times.
  Many of us in AP have said for years that AP is completely ignoring 
 the concept of music 
  tourism as it relates to Bruce and the rich musical heritage that 
 pretty much put the city on 
  the world map for many people.
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 sandpiper15@ 
 wrote:
  
   Your points in the second half of your post are valid, but I'm 
 not 
   sure I see a connection between those points and the 
 city blowing 
   anything in the context of the Hall of Fame exhibit. 
   
   If you look at the Hall's Web site, there is no announcement. And 
 the 
   Associated Press article was noticeably short and devoid of 
   detail. Rock Hall officials today couldn't disclose any 
 specifics 
   about what the exhibit will include, except to say it's a work in 
   progress. So all anyone knows for sure is that there will be an 
   exhibit, and it is tentatively titled ''From Asbury Park to the 
   Promised Land: The Life and Music of Bruce Springsteen''
   
   Since the arc of both his life and music began not in Asbury 
   Park, but rather Freehold (and, to a lesser extent, Middletown 
 and 
   Sea Bright) it seems like based on the title alone the city has 
   already come out ahead of the game - at least in terms of PR. 
   
   If I were a resident of Freehold, however, I think I'd be a 
 little 
   miffed.

[AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN - All Paper, No News

Soft content?  Some of it is downright insulting, IMHO!  They are even
caustic, if they consider you, the enemy!  I've seen TCN go after
some individuals, like a vendetta!  I have to agree with the ad
content.  I remember when the Coaster was free, then was a quarter and
I forget what it costs now.

I find the Coaster to be an alternative newspaper to the Press and
the TCN, which when it began was REALLY good, especially during
political campaigns, to being a gotcha critic and sometime feisty,
like I said to its' perceived enemies.  If they don't like you, they
go after you with a vengeance!  Not the 1st alternative that used
expletives either!  Over all, they've stuck it to City Hall and the
so-called developers, who have done this City in with their carrot
antics and the City has swallowed their lies!  TCN tells it like it is!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, marioa...@... wrote:

 In a message dated 12/23/2008 3:40:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
 dfsav...@... writes:
 
 
 As I  said, the Pennysaver. Is that just a NY term?
  
 ==
  
 Nope:
  
  
 Excerpt: Making a profitable penny saver  is a lot easier than
making a 
 real, profitable news operation that serves its  community. It
sounds like the 
 triCityNews exists to be a pleasant place for  local advertisers. It
has lots 
 of ad space that is surrounded by soft, friendly  content.
  
 Even Carr admits that the triCityNews is âboosterish.â Maybe it
even has  
 some friendly content thrown in about frequent advertisers. 
 Good for the triCityNews for serving the advertisers of Ashbury
Park. Nothing 
  wrong with that. Itâs just business. 
 But shame on Carr for not proving that the triCityNews serves its
community  
 well  
  
 _Â»  Does triCityNews produce news, or just ad space? | The Journalism 
 Iconoclast_ 

(http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/12/23/does-tricitynews-produce-news-or-just-ad-space/)
 
  
  

_http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/12/23/does-tricitynews-produce-news-or-
 just-ad-space/_ 

(http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/12/23/does-tricitynews-produce-news-or-just-ad-space/)

  
  
  
  
 
 **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, 
 Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. 

(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0025)
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN - All Paper, No News

WOW!  Thanks for the link!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
jerseyshorej...@... wrote:

 http://tinyurl.com/7uc4wb
 
 On Dec 23, 2008, at 3:47 PM, dfsavgny wrote:
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote:
  
  
   As I said, the Pennysaver. Is that just a NY term?
  
 
  I'll answer my own question. It is not a NJ thing. There appears to be
  no NJ Pennysaver. Pennysavers are coupon periodicals (not newspapers)
  for specific communities.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN Coverage Like the Dew

I don't have a link, but Google alternative newspapers.  I found
tons of alternatives this way and subscribe to several, not available
in this area, (local and free), to the areas they're printed in.  Most
are filled with ads, like TCN in their paper form, but fun to read.
 The Village Voice is also online!


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
justifiedri...@... wrote:

 Where's the link to the data that other small papers are doing fine?
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, MarioAPNJ@ wrote:
 
  From  Recovering Journalist: Jumping to the Wrong Conclusion (a  
  professional POV)  a Comment following it (Somewhat testy -  lol):
   
  http://tinyurl.com/77zc3h
   
   





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[AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN Coverage Like the Dew

LOL!  You are so crazy!  Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy
Hannukah, Happy Kwanzaa and Happy New Year!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
jerseyshorej...@... wrote:

 We eschew the Web. A lack of links keeps our operating costs to a  
 minimum and our Christmas party had only one attendee! Hysterical! Ahem!
 
 On Dec 23, 2008, at 8:28 AM, justifiedright wrote:
 
  Where's the link to the data that other small papers are doing fine?
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN Coverage Like the Dew

2008-12-24 Thread Jersey Shore John

The Internet has surpassed newspapers as the main source for  
national and international news for Americans, according to a new  
survey.

http://tinyurl.com/89b3yw

Television, however, remains the preferred medium for Americans,  
according to the survey by the Washington-based Pew Research Center  
for the People  the Press. Seventy percent of the 1,489 people  
surveyed by Pew said television is their primary source for national  
and international news. Forty percent said they get most of their  
news from the Internet, up from 24 percent in September 2007, and  
more than the 35 percent who cited newspapers as their main news  
source.



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[AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN - All Paper, No News

2008-12-23 Thread justifiedright

Thanks for the heads-up on the trademark application for the 
word Plog.

I invented it and printed it years ago and have been using it ever 
since.

I'm going to intervene in the application.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, marioa...@... wrote:

 All Paper, No News 23 Dec 2008
  
 From  http://tinyurl.com/7b6rol
  
 People who are into journalism and newspapers and the web and the 
death of  
 print have been all a-twitter over the NY Times story  today about 
the 
 triCityNews, a little  alt-weekly in Monmouth County, New Jersey.
  
  
  
 I spent a good bit of time in Monmouth County years ago, when I 
was a  
 consultant and had a client there, but unfortunately my tenure in 
the area  predates 
 the triCityNews' era of journalistic service to the community. So 
I was  
 interested to see what was so notable about this little paper. 
 The Times bemusedly profiles the little alt because, it claims, 
the triCity  
 shuns the web. They quote Dan Jacobson, owner and publisher of 
the paper, at 
  some length in the piece. I've concatenated all of Jacobson's 
quotes in the  
 article together here. 
 [...]
 In all of his quotes about the web and his business model and 
other  
 newspapers and his big, beautiful full-page ads, Dan Jacobson 
never  once mentions 
 serving his community, researching a story, publishing 
information  of any 
 utility or value to his audience, or actually committing any act  
of journalism. 
 That's not to say Jacobson doesn't value journalism. It's just 
that it's  
 absolutely clear that his priority is his advertisers. Thus, I 
submit that the  
 triCityNews, while certainly a paper, is likely not a newspaper. 
I  would ask 
 for clarification or rebuttal, or seek evidence to dispute this  
conclusion by 
 looking in the paper itself, but that's not possible for those of  
us not 
 physically located in its distribution area. I would invite Mr. 
Jacobson  to 
 respond in person here to this assertion, but I don't want him to 
compromise  his 
 apparent belief that the audience he serves doesn't not seek 
clarification  of 
 information through the web. 
 I do, however, invite David Carr to explain his  belief that this 
constitutes 
 a ray of light in [his] e-mail [sic] inbox. I  won't hold him 
accountable 
 for the headline on the story; we all know to blame  the editors 
for that. But 
 even a lighthearted story should have at least its  fundamental 
assertions 
 somewhat resemble the truth. 
 And, as a minor side note to Mr. Jacobson, whom I suspect may read 
the  
 response on the web despite his contempt for our medium: The 
word plog is  
 currently the subject of a trademark application by  Amazon.com. 
They are an online 
 concern that has  apparently found a way to make money 
merchandising products 
 online, even when  they aren't making use of big, beautiful full-
page ads. 
 Just as someone will  succeed in doing in Asbury Park, someday 
soon. 
 
 
 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN Coverage Like the Dew

2008-12-23 Thread justifiedright

Where's the link to the data that other small papers are doing fine?


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, marioa...@... wrote:

 From  Recovering Journalist: Jumping to the Wrong Conclusion (a  
 professional POV)  a Comment following it (Somewhat testy -  lol):
  
 http://tinyurl.com/77zc3h
  
  
 
 New York Times media columnist David Carr,  who is staking out a 
position as 
 a staunch defender of the primacy of the  traditional newspaper, 
has come up 
 with a doozy: a small weekly community newspaper in New Jersey 
that claims to 
 be  thriving. In fact, Carr says, The TriCityNews of Monmouth 
County is 
 prospering  precisely because it aggressively ignores the Web.
  
  
 
 Well, not precisely. In fact, probably not much at all.
 
 The TriCityNews' owner and publisher, Dan Jacobson, is proud of 
his  
 print-only stance, Carr reports. Why would I put anything on the 
Web? Carr  quotes 
 Jacobson as saying. I don't understand how putting content on the 
Web  would 
 do anything but help destroy our paper.
 
 Carr and Jacobson have jumped to the wrong conclusion about what 
makes the  
 TriCityNews a success. Indeed, many small community papers, with 
and without 
 Web  sites, are doing just fine, and will continue to do so even 
as larger 
 newspapers  founder. 
 
 That has nothing to do with print, or the Web. It has everything 
to do with  
 the fact that these little papers cover their communities 
closelyâand have  
 little or no competition in doing so. Web or not, their readers 
have almost no  
 place else to go.
 
 The well-publicized storm that's roiling the newspaper business 
isn't  really 
 affecting many of these smaller players. When we talk about 
newspapers in  
 trouble these days, we're primarily talking about metro dailies, 
which are being 
  pummeled on all sides by competition from national news sites, 
bloggers,  
 craigslist, hyperlocal sites, Yelp, and others. There are 
generally myriad other 
  ways to get most of what's in most dailies. Want international 
news? It's  
 everywhere. National news? Ditto. Sports? Ditto, plus ESPN. 
Entertainment news? 
  Same thing. 
 
 The one franchise the big metros can still defend, usually, is 
local  newsâ
 and even there, they're probably spread too thin. In fact, they're 
spread  so 
 thin that they're often undercut by small community papers 
like ... the  
 TriCityNews, which covers news and arts in the area around Asbury 
Park like the  dew, 
 as the saying used to go.
 
 In fact, the TriCityNews has staked out an even narrower niche, as 
an  
 alternative community weekly with an edge. (Its almost non-
existent Web site  shows 
 a copy of the paper sitting atop a toilet.) So it's a little 
offbeat, and  
 doubtless a nice alternative to Gannett's Asbury Park Press, its 
nearest daily  
 competitor. And the Asbury Park Press is no slouch at local 
coverage  itself.
 
 That unique local angle is what makes the TriCityNews a success, 
whether or  
 not it has a Web site. (Ironically, because its alternative 
audience probably  
 skews young, it may actually be limiting itself by not reaching 
that audience 
  online.) Indeed, it's tiny (10,000 circulation), keeps its 
editorial costs 
 low,  offers affordable advertising and has annual revenue that's 
probably a 
 rounding  error for a paper like the Asbury Park Press. Comparing 
its situation 
 to the  problems of big dailies is really apples and oranges.
 
 Long after metro dailies wither away, small community and 
alternative  papers 
 like the TriCityNews are likely to continue in print (and on the 
Web),  
 because they're providing unique, focused content to their 
narrowly defined  
 audiences (and advertisers). If there was a way to get the same 
stuff from an  
 online (or print) competitor, these papers would face a lot of the 
same  structural 
 pressures as their larger cousins. And they're still feeling the 
same  pinch 
 from a lousy advertising economy, nonetheless. But their success 
really  
 doesn't have anything to do with whether they're distributed in 
pixels or dead  
 trees. It's the nature of their content that makes the  
difference. 
 
 So contrary to what Carr and Jacobson believe, the secret to the  
 TriCityNews' success probably isn't that it fiercely eschews the 
Web. It's that  it's 
 fiercely local.
 
 
  
 Comments:  Not so fast, gentleman. To call Tri-City a  community 
paper is an 
 error and doesn't do justice to community papers like the  2 River 
Times and 
 The Hub which truly cover the community. 
 
 Mr. Jacobsons version of community coverage is to  borrow stories 
from these 
 papers, slam the local daily paper and other weeklies,  and launch 
personal 
 attacks on it s reviewer when there is a negative article  about 
one of his 
 advertisers.
 He doesn't cover meetings, thereby relying on second  hand 
accounts of what 
 went on in the tri-city towns and tends to beat the same  old 
dead horse 
 topics which are the only ones that he

Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN Coverage Like the Dew

2008-12-23 Thread MarioAPNJ

In a message dated 12/23/2008 8:28:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
justifiedri...@yahoo.com writes:

Where's  the link to the data that other small papers are doing fine?
 
=
 
I dunno.  Ask the recovering journalist at his site, comment or  email  
recoveringjournal...@cox.net
 
Anyone know how the Coaster is doing?  I like to promote Coaster  
subscriptions to out-of-town AP lovers, pointing out that, though it does have 
a  web 
site,  it's difficult to navigate and doesn't contain every  article in its 
print 
version.  A bargain because it's delivered on day of  publication and you get 
a $25 gift certificate to a local restaurant.
 
2 River Times tries to preserve its print status by offering limited web  
content only after 4 days on newsstands (or immediately to print  subscribers).
 
 
Happy Holidays
 
 
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN - All Paper, No News

2008-12-23 Thread MarioAPNJ

In a message dated 12/23/2008 8:05:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
justifiedri...@yahoo.com writes:

Thanks  for the heads-up on the trademark application for the 
word Plog.
I  invented it and printed it years ago and have been using it ever  
since.
I'm going to intervene in the application.
 
==
 
That could be fun to watch:  Tommy v. Amazon -- like David v.  Goliath.   ;-)
 
BTW:  Is that invention like the claim where you begin an article  with a 
quote, accusing a Coaster columnist of stealing the device?
 
;-)
 
 
 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN - All Paper, No News

2008-12-23 Thread justifiedright

 That could be fun to watch:  Tommy v. Amazon -- like David v.  
Goliath.   ;-)
  
 BTW:  Is that invention like the claim where you begin an article  
with a 
 quote, accusing a Coaster columnist of stealing the device?
  
 ;-)


The two wouldn't really be the same.  Amazon is apparantly trying to 
make the word their own and be able to enforce it via trademark.

On the issue of Pivinski, I don't think there is a trademark 
violation (there is another lawyer on this board who knows better 
than me).

I don't think I could stop folks from quoting other folks.

It also has moved beyond accusation just from me.  Both Pivinski 
and his Editor freely admit he stole the style from me directly.  

I made clear I wouldn't have cared if he were in another market, but 
to steal it in the same market was really bad form.

What Pivinski did may or may not be actionable (I'm not looking into 
it) but it does highlight his lack of courtesy, lack of creativity, 
lack of style and lack of integrity.  So too for Mike Booth who 
won't edit him from doing it.

Have you seen Pivinski's last column?  He cut and pasted so many 
sources he ended up repeating the same information over and over.

He should really cite the source if he is going to use the content 
of others.




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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN Coverage Like the Dew

2008-12-23 Thread Jersey Shore John

We eschew the Web. A lack of links keeps our operating costs to a  
minimum and our Christmas party had only one attendee! Hysterical! Ahem!

On Dec 23, 2008, at 8:28 AM, justifiedright wrote:

 Where's the link to the data that other small papers are doing fine?


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[AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN - All Paper, No News

2008-12-23 Thread dfsavgny

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, marioa...@... wrote:

 In all of his quotes about the web and his business model and other  
 newspapers and his big, beautiful full-page ads, Dan Jacobson never
 once mentions 
 serving his community, researching a story, publishing information 
of any 
 utility or value to his audience, or actually committing any act  of
journalism. 
 That's not to say Jacobson doesn't value journalism. It's just that
it's  
 absolutely clear that his priority is his advertisers. Thus, I
submit that the  
 triCityNews, while certainly a paper, is likely not a newspaper.


As I said, the Pennysaver. Is that just a NY term?





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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN - All Paper, No News

2008-12-23 Thread MarioAPNJ

In a message dated 12/23/2008 3:40:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dfsav...@yahoo.com writes:

As I said, the Pennysaver. Is that just a NY term?

Nope:

Excerpt: Making a profitable penny saver is a lot easier than making a
real, profitable news operation that serves its community. It sounds like the
triCityNews exists to be a pleasant place for local advertisers. It has lots
of ad space that is surrounded by soft, friendly content.

Even Carr admits that the triCityNews is ”boosterish.” Maybe it even has
some friendly content thrown in about frequent advertisers.
Good for the triCityNews for serving the advertisers of Ashbury Park. Nothing
wrong with that. It’s just business.
But shame on Carr for not proving that the triCityNews serves its community
well

_» Does triCityNews produce news, or just ad space? | The Journalism
Iconoclast_
(http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/12/23/does-tricitynews-produce-news-or-just-ad-space/)

_http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/12/23/does-tricitynews-produce-news-or-
just-ad-space/_
(http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/12/23/does-tricitynews-produce-news-or-just-ad-space/)

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Another POV: TCN - All Paper, No News

2008-12-23 Thread Jersey Shore John

http://tinyurl.com/7uc4wb

On Dec 23, 2008, at 3:47 PM, dfsavgny wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsav...@... wrote:
 
 
  As I said, the Pennysaver. Is that just a NY term?
 

 I'll answer my own question. It is not a NJ thing. There appears to be
 no NJ Pennysaver. Pennysavers are coupon periodicals (not newspapers)
 for specific communities.



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[AsburyPark] Re: Another...

2008-10-31 Thread sharon_b283

Now THAT'S what I call, bawdy humor!  LOL!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I don't want to be rid of you. You make me realize I can love ANYONE!
 I consider that a gift :), mine that is!
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
 justifiedright@ wrote:
 
  http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/30/tdeseno_1030/#comments
  
  
  If you leave comments over there they will likely have me write more,
  and you'll be rid of me here!
  
  See, everybody can win.
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another...

2008-10-30 Thread Gabrielle Obre

I don't want to be rid of you. You make me realize I can love ANYONE!
I consider that a gift :), mine that is!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/30/tdeseno_1030/#comments
 
 
 If you leave comments over there they will likely have me write more,
 and you'll be rid of me here!
 
 See, everybody can win.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Shameless plug...

Oh God Tommy...you are sounding like yet another desperate republican.
26 papers that endorsed Bush are now endorsing Obama, including the
Chicago Trib...NEVER endorsed a dem in 161 years. So is Scott
McClellan and the Goldwater family. The Arizona Rep party is
crumbling. Republicans are red baiting. Palin thinks the VP runs the
senate. NC GOP is using homophobic campaign lit. 

No genuine woman who wants to serve the country would have accepted
150k worth of clothing and 12k of makeup particularly after claiming
to be a regular gal.  she's pathetic. she could've borrowed something
from cin cin.

what does it mean when the people who agree with you are cretins?


this was my favorite comment from a guy who claims the obama camp is
sexist...

Say NO to promiscuity. Donât forget that âa moment on your hips is a
lifetime on his lips.â he also compares Palin to Jesus. 10 bucks says
this guy watches kiddie porn.

you're in great company Tommy.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/23/tdeseno_1023/#comments






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Shameless plug...

this is pathetic Tommy

Obama referred to the town of âSunriseâ as âSunshineâ and Sioux Falls
as âSioux City.â

so is the 57 states comment. lets compare Obama and Palin's resumes,
not verbal slip ups.  

Throw in the towel.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/23/tdeseno_1023/#comments






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Shameless plug...

2008-10-23 Thread justifiedright

I hope you're leaving these comments over there, too!


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 this is pathetic Tommy
 
 Obama referred to the town of âSunriseâ as âSunshineâ and 
Sioux Falls
 as âSioux City.â
 
 so is the 57 states comment. lets compare Obama and Palin's 
resumes,
 not verbal slip ups.  
 
 Throw in the towel.
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
 justifiedright@ wrote:
 
  
http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/23/tdeseno_1023/#comments
 






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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Another Shameless plug...

2008-10-23 Thread MarioAPNJ

In a message dated 10/23/2008 8:19:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Oh God  Tommy...what does it mean when the people who agree with you are  
cretins?
==
 
As Tommy  indicated when he started this thread, he is  shameless.
 
Inspired by Gabrielle's response,
 
I just made another donation to Obama's campaign --  shamelessly.   
**Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Shameless plug...

I did leave one for that pathetic Brad. I forgot to say that I am
sincerely happy you are writing over there and having fun with it.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I hope you're leaving these comments over there, too!
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  this is pathetic Tommy
  
  Obama referred to the town of âSunriseâ as âSunshineâ and 
 Sioux Falls
  as âSioux City.â
  
  so is the 57 states comment. lets compare Obama and Palin's 
 resumes,
  not verbal slip ups.  
  
  Throw in the towel.
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
  justifiedright@ wrote:
  
   
 http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/23/tdeseno_1023/#comments
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Shameless plug...



 I just made another donation to Obama's campaign --  shamelessly.   

I read somewhere that the best thing to do now is send money to some
of the smaller dem campaigns...the Obama campaign is loaded due to the
lately hidden brilliance of the American people.




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[AsburyPark] Re: Another sign that The Baronet's days are numbered

2008-06-30 Thread sharon_b283

I hear you and I'm feeling you, too!  Mallification; great word!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 That made me chuckle because I am on Oahu as we speak. Fortunately, I 
 am staying on the North Shore and not in Honolulu (although I have been 
 there). We were speaking with a young couple that just got married, 21 
 years old about, he is stationed here but they are from Arkansas or 
 Mississippi The wife looked at me, and stated with a heavy southern 
 accent If you make it to Honolulu, you HAVE GOT to check out this 
 place called the Cheesecake Factory, it is my favorite. I just hope 
 she could not read my thoughts...I just smiled and tried to say as 
 sincerely as possible, Oh, ok, I will have to check that out.
 
 One of the aspects of living in the NYC metro area that I love is 
 finding unique places with history and charm. And one of the things I 
 dislike most about other parts of the country (say Ohio, for eg) is the 
 mall-if-ication of everything, chain stores, chain restaurants, yuck!






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another NYC example of gentrification - Florent closes

2008-06-30 Thread sharon_b283

That speaks to me, too!  Sigh!

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Have any of you ever been to Florent, which until yesterday was a 24
hour a day oasis of great 
 food, cool people and reasonable prices in the now hip and trendy
Meat Packing District of 
 NYC?
 It was one of my favorite places to eat in the entire world.
 It was forced to close because the area has become so upscale that
the owners of the 
 building upped the rent to a staggering $30,000 a month!
 
 Here's a link to the NY TImes article -
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/nyregion/30florent.html?hp
 
 I know that this doesn't directly relate to AP, but today I heard
that McCloons is offering a 
 $22 burger, which is just plain highway robbery. It makes me wonder
if people would just 
 order something that outlandish just to show off. Meanwhile, you can
get a great burger on 
 the boardwalk at Jonnie-G's for $3. I bet in a blindfold taste test
it would be hard to tell the 
 difference.
 To me, the $22 burger on our boardwalk is a sign of things to come. 
 I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm right, while the redevelopment will
make the boardwalk look 
 great, it's would be a terrible shame if our boardwalk becomes too
pricey for the people that 
 live in the city, believe in the city and aren't gazillionaires.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another sign that The Baronet's days are numbered

2008-06-29 Thread Jack Pitzer

It's only when you look around and see these things are disappearing, you 
think 'Oh, 
maybe we should hold on to these, My favorite quote from this article.
But, here in America, everything we see has a dollar sign attached to it.
See that once beautiful theater over there? Why is it there? We could build 
condos there 
instead. It'll make money, and it'll bring in tax dollars. Awesome!
And that's the problem with America. We have a bit more then 200 years of 
history, and 
we don't physically respect that history by preserving it. We just rebuild 
endlessly. And, 
when we rebuild, we do it in a way that makes every corner of this country look 
exactly 
the same. i call it the Flintstones effect
If you are a fan of the Flintstones, you'll recall that every time they went 
out for a drive in 
their foot powered cars, they'd pass the same rock, tree, house and boulder 
over and over 
again.
And that's what is happening everywhere in America.
Is it greed? Are we that stuck in the need for familiarity that we have to live 
in a 
homogenized country?
I've been to Hawaii twice in my life. Unfortunately, both times took me to 
Honolulu. That 
city made me so incredibly sad, because I wasn't in a tropical paradise. I was 
in an outpost 
of America, with the same ugly retail and virtually no trace of the Hawaiian 
culture that 
existed before. Sure, you could go to tourist shows, but then your surrounded 
by American 
gawkers that are more interested in getting a Readers Digest condensed view of 
a culture 
centuries older then our own.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 In a message dated 6/29/2008 9:36:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 Last  summer, the last use of The Baronet...But, who cares, right?...I 
 sincerely  hope that this lack of concern doesn't extend to Asbury Lanes when 
 it's  
 threatened.
 Preservation: Plain-Jane vs. Majestic Artifacts:  Excerpts from   USA Today's 
 Preservation efforts fall short.  _http://tinyurl.com/5st3de_ 
 (http://tinyurl.com/5st3de)   
  
 
 Time and natural decay doom some. Others are sped along in the name of  
 progress, safety or simple neglect.
  
 The problem is they're nonrenewable  resources. 
 
 Preservation of historic buildings, bridges and other structures tends to  
 favor the grand, the notable and the notorious. But small farm houses, barns, 
  
 bridges, windmills and other ordinary items provide important insight
  
  
 Without them, we get a distorted, romanticized view of the  past. 
 Plain-Jane looking hay barns or toll roads or mining camps  are easily 
 overlooked in the shadow of more majestic artifacts 
 It's only when you look around and see these things are  disappearing, you 
 think 'Oh, maybe we should hold on to these.' 
 Not every ranch, outbuilding or bridge can or should be  saved, historians 
 say. Already, more than 80,000 properties are listed on the  National 
 Register 
 of Historic Places 
 The listing, though, is only an honorific designation and  doesn't provide 
 specific protections. That tends to come at the local level,  often through 
 zoning But there are never any guarantees the place will  survive. 
 _Preservation  efforts fall short, many historical sites disappear - 
 USATODAY.com_ (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-06-28-historical-
sites_N.htm)  
 
 
 
 
 
 **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
 fuel-efficient used cars.  
 (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut000507)







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[AsburyPark] Re: Another sign that The Baronet's days are numbered

2008-06-29 Thread Jack Pitzer

It's only when you look around and see these things are disappearing, you 
think 'Oh, 
maybe we should hold on to these, My favorite quote from this article.
But, here in America, everything we see has a dollar sign attached to it.
See that once beautiful theater over there? Why is it there? We could build 
condos there 
instead. It'll make money, and it'll bring in tax dollars. Awesome!
And that's the problem with America. We have a bit more then 200 years of 
history, and 
we don't physically respect that history by preserving it. We just rebuild 
endlessly. And, 
when we rebuild, we do it in a way that makes every corner of this country look 
exactly 
the same. i call it the Flintstones effect
If you are a fan of the Flintstones, you'll recall that every time they went 
out for a drive in 
their foot powered cars, they'd pass the same rock, tree, house and boulder 
over and over 
again.
And that's what is happening everywhere in America.
Is it greed? Are we that stuck in the need for familiarity that we have to live 
in a 
homogenized country?
I've been to Hawaii twice in my life. Unfortunately, both times took me to 
Honolulu. That 
city made me so incredibly sad, because I wasn't in a tropical paradise. I was 
in an outpost 
of America, with the same ugly retail and virtually no trace of the Hawaiian 
culture that 
existed before. Sure, you could go to tourist shows, but then your surrounded 
by American 
gawkers that are more interested in getting a Readers Digest condensed view of 
a culture 
centuries older then our own.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 In a message dated 6/29/2008 9:36:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 Last  summer, the last use of The Baronet...But, who cares, right?...I 
 sincerely  hope that this lack of concern doesn't extend to Asbury Lanes when 
 it's  
 threatened.
 Preservation: Plain-Jane vs. Majestic Artifacts:  Excerpts from   USA Today's 
 Preservation efforts fall short.  _http://tinyurl.com/5st3de_ 
 (http://tinyurl.com/5st3de)   
  
 
 Time and natural decay doom some. Others are sped along in the name of  
 progress, safety or simple neglect.
  
 The problem is they're nonrenewable  resources. 
 
 Preservation of historic buildings, bridges and other structures tends to  
 favor the grand, the notable and the notorious. But small farm houses, barns, 
  
 bridges, windmills and other ordinary items provide important insight
  
  
 Without them, we get a distorted, romanticized view of the  past. 
 Plain-Jane looking hay barns or toll roads or mining camps  are easily 
 overlooked in the shadow of more majestic artifacts 
 It's only when you look around and see these things are  disappearing, you 
 think 'Oh, maybe we should hold on to these.' 
 Not every ranch, outbuilding or bridge can or should be  saved, historians 
 say. Already, more than 80,000 properties are listed on the  National 
 Register 
 of Historic Places 
 The listing, though, is only an honorific designation and  doesn't provide 
 specific protections. That tends to come at the local level,  often through 
 zoning But there are never any guarantees the place will  survive. 
 _Preservation  efforts fall short, many historical sites disappear - 
 USATODAY.com_ (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-06-28-historical-
sites_N.htm)  
 
 
 
 
 
 **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
 fuel-efficient used cars.  
 (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut000507)







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[AsburyPark] Re: Another sign that The Baronet's days are numbered

2008-06-29 Thread oakdorf

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It's only when you look around and see these things are disappearing, you 
 think 'Oh, 
 maybe we should hold on to these, My favorite quote from this article.
 B
 If you are a fan of the Flintstones,


And who should be The Great Gazoo... hero or failure?





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[AsburyPark] Re: Another sign that The Baronet's days are numbered

2008-06-29 Thread fancypaaantz

That made me chuckle because I am on Oahu as we speak. Fortunately, I 
am staying on the North Shore and not in Honolulu (although I have been 
there). We were speaking with a young couple that just got married, 21 
years old about, he is stationed here but they are from Arkansas or 
Mississippi The wife looked at me, and stated with a heavy southern 
accent If you make it to Honolulu, you HAVE GOT to check out this 
place called the Cheesecake Factory, it is my favorite. I just hope 
she could not read my thoughts...I just smiled and tried to say as 
sincerely as possible, Oh, ok, I will have to check that out.

One of the aspects of living in the NYC metro area that I love is 
finding unique places with history and charm. And one of the things I 
dislike most about other parts of the country (say Ohio, for eg) is the 
mall-if-ication of everything, chain stores, chain restaurants, yuck! 




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[AsburyPark] Re: Another sign that The Baronet's days are numbered

2008-06-29 Thread dapawprint

I am sure that this is for a limited time only but when you get 
back, send me an e-mail and then swing by Jack's place; pick he and 
his girlfriend up and head up to my place in the Hudson Valley Region 
of NY.  We still have very few chains here... but MANY nice, 
friendly, family owned restaurants and genuine places of interest.  I 
still like visiting Asbury Park though!


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 That made me chuckle because I am on Oahu as we speak. Fortunately, 
I 
 am staying on the North Shore and not in Honolulu (although I have 
been 
 there). We were speaking with a young couple that just got married, 
21 
 years old about, he is stationed here but they are from Arkansas or 
 Mississippi The wife looked at me, and stated with a heavy 
southern 
 accent If you make it to Honolulu, you HAVE GOT to check out this 
 place called the Cheesecake Factory, it is my favorite. I just 
hope 
 she could not read my thoughts...I just smiled and tried to say as 
 sincerely as possible, Oh, ok, I will have to check that out.
 
 One of the aspects of living in the NYC metro area that I love is 
 finding unique places with history and charm. And one of the things 
I 
 dislike most about other parts of the country (say Ohio, for eg) is 
the 
 mall-if-ication of everything, chain stores, chain restaurants, 
yuck!






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[AsburyPark] Re: another thought....

2007-12-07 Thread oakdorf

on Imax demographics:

70% are between 19 and 65 years of age 
Average household income is over US$70,000; over 33% earn over 
US$100,000 
Majority are college or university educated 
Over 20% of audience is school groups 
Love to travel 
Majority own computers 
96% of all visitors would recommend The IMAX Experience to a friend 




 
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[AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in ap

2007-10-19 Thread oakdorf

 - Drive down springwood and around Ave a to the neptune border/ridge 
etc. I did the other day because I had to. Look at the barrack housng 
that was constructed many moons ago. Sure, it's housing, but maybe it's 
time to start knocking down the village and building new subsidized 
housing. Yea, I'm saying spend more government money and building more 
of a community instead of the old chicken coop housing. - more green a 
place for kids to run vs in the street. I don't know if thats the 
answer or if there will EVER be one, but a bulldozer is a start. HOw 
are you going to attract business to Springwood if the guy/gal behind 
the counter doesn't feel safe. You don't want storefronts with solid 
steel doors or people working behind bullet proof glass just to sell a 
soda.

Massive crackdown, day in day out. 

Pretend its Iraq.

These are real HOMEland security issues.



 
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[AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in ap

2007-10-19 Thread Jack Pitzer

Yikes. Sorry to hear that. I'm surprised this hasn't made it onto the APP 
website. It makes 
me wonder about how many other crimes that we aren't hearing about.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, denise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It was right behind my girlfriend's house she heard the shots/screaming and 
 then police 
sirens.  She lives on Springwood
 
 
 - Original Message 
 From: Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 11:21:24 AM
 Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in ap
 
 I was wondering what all the sirens were for.
 I wonder why this hasn't made it to any of the news outlets yet.
 How do you know there was another shooting?
 
 --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, denise denisemchd@ ... wrote:
 
  There was another shooting in AP last night around 10:00 pm in the Ap 
  villages
  
   _ _ _ _ __
  Do You Yahoo!?
  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail. yahoo.com
 
 
 
 
 
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 Do You Yahoo!?
 Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in ap

2007-10-19 Thread denise

It was right behind my girlfriend's house she heard the shots/screaming and 
then police sirens.  She lives on Springwood

- Original Message 
From: Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 11:21:24 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in ap

I was wondering what all the sirens were for.
I wonder why this hasn't made it to any of the news outlets yet.
How do you know there was another shooting?

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, denise denisemchd@ ... wrote:

 There was another shooting in AP last night around 10:00 pm in the Ap villages

  _ _ _ _ __
 Do You Yahoo!?
 Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
 http://mail. yahoo.com

__
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[AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in ap

2007-10-19 Thread Jack Pitzer

I was wondering what all the sirens were for.
I wonder why this hasn't made it to any of the news outlets yet.
How do you know there was another shooting?


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, denise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 There was another shooting in AP  last night around 10:00 pm  in the Ap 
 villages
 
 __
 Do You Yahoo!?
 Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
 http://mail.yahoo.com





 
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in ap

2007-10-19 Thread denise

She called me around 10:40 to say she just heard gunshots someone screaming and 
then the sirens.  Another friend confirmed it this morning.  It's getting 
really ridiculous something truly has to be done.  The other problem is that 
it's not just happening in AP.  Gang violence is happening all over.  We the 
older generation are afraid to stand up to it.  We will make our comment to 
others and via emails but no one is willing to stand up and fight as it may put 
themselves or their families in harms way (for which I can't blame anyone for 
not doing) but we will soon have to stand up to these idiots who have no value 
for life or else we will have to go into hiding until our knight in shining 
armor rescues us.


- Original Message 
From: Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 11:46:56 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in ap

Yikes. Sorry to hear that. I'm surprised this hasn't made it onto the APP 
website. It makes 
me wonder about how many other crimes that we aren't hearing about.

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, denise denisemchd@ ... wrote:

 It was right behind my girlfriend's house she heard the shots/screaming and 
 then police 
sirens. She lives on Springwood
 
 
 - Original Message 
 From: Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com
 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 11:21:24 AM
 Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: another shooting in ap
 
 I was wondering what all the sirens were for.
 I wonder why this hasn't made it to any of the news outlets yet.
 How do you know there was another shooting?
 
 --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, denise denisemchd@ ... wrote:
 
  There was another shooting in AP last night around 10:00 pm in the Ap 
  villages
  
   _ _ _ _ __
  Do You Yahoo!?
  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail. yahoo.com
 
 
 
 
 
  _ _ _ _ __
 Do You Yahoo!?
 Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
 http://mail. yahoo.com





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[AsburyPark] Re: Another draw AP has to steal from

2007-10-15 Thread dfsavgny

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Is what most here say they don't want: The New Outlet center that will 
 slowy rise from the cornfields of exits 100/102 and Routes 33/66.


If they have a Le Creuset outlet store I want them.




 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Another draw AP has to steal from

2007-10-15 Thread dfsavgny

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 If it were me, I'd try my hardest to work with the developer to get the 
 thing named asbuy outlet centers or something (missing the park, I 
 know)

Asbury Commons

Aren't they the same folks that have Woodbury Commons in NY?




 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Another draw AP has to steal from

2007-10-15 Thread oakdorf

)
 
 Asbury Commons
 
 Aren't they the same folks that have Woodbury Commons in NY?


with a free shuttle run by the outlet center and the UEZ to the park



 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Another draw AP has to steal from

2007-10-15 Thread dfsavgny

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 )
  
  Asbury Commons
  
  Aren't they the same folks that have Woodbury Commons in NY?
 
 
 with a free shuttle run by the outlet center and the UEZ to the park


Better yet, if they name it that, we run a shuttle from Chinatown and
tell'em we're taking them to the outlet center and drop them off on
Cookman.




 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Point of View, Mario

2007-09-18 Thread justifiedright

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Conversely, the pseudo-science of intelligent design is  accepted 
as fact despite 
 lacking anything resembling real scientific  support.

Irreducable Complexity.  It's a science thing.  Wonder if the pro-
science poster who wrote the above has studied enough science to even 
have heard of it.

I guess this is the part where you start posting a bunch of links 
about it.  Don't bother.  I prefer to draw my conclusion from the 
original work and doing my own analysis.

That too is a science think.



 
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Another Point of View, Mario

2007-09-18 Thread Jersey Shore John


pro-science?

as opposed to...?

dark ages superstition adherent?

fairy tale follower?

By the way: just doing your own analysis isn't necessarily  
'science'. The guys at Enron were doing their own analysis. It  
didn't make it accounting. The Bush WMD guys were doing their own  
analysis. It didn't make it intelligence. The organizations who were  
selling sub-prime mortgages were doing their own analysis. Larry  
Craig was doing his own analysis.


On Sep 18, 2007, at 7:18 AM, justifiedright wrote:


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Conversely, the pseudo-science of intelligent design is accepted
as fact despite
 lacking anything resembling real scientific support.

Irreducable Complexity. It's a science thing. Wonder if the pro-
science poster who wrote the above has studied enough science to even
have heard of it.

I guess this is the part where you start posting a bunch of links
about it. Don't bother. I prefer to draw my conclusion from the
original work and doing my own analysis.

That too is a science think.

Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Another Point of View, Mario

2007-09-18 Thread Jersey Shore John


But only if you know what you're talking about.

On Sep 18, 2007, at 10:45 AM, justifiedright wrote:


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 By the way: just doing your own analysis isn't necessarily
 'science'. The guys at Enron were doing their own analysis. It
 didn't make it accounting. The Bush WMD guys were doing their own
 analysis. It didn't make it intelligence. The organizations who
were
 selling sub-prime mortgages were doing their own analysis. Larry
 Craig was doing his own analysis.

All excellent reasons why you should not rely upon the analysis of
others and do your own.

Thank you for hightlighting my point even better than I could.

[AsburyPark] Re: Another Point of View, Mario

2007-09-18 Thread justifiedright

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 By the way: just doing your own analysis isn't necessarily  
 'science'. The guys at Enron were doing their own analysis. It  
 didn't make it accounting. The Bush WMD guys were doing their own  
 analysis. It didn't make it intelligence. The organizations who 
were  
 selling sub-prime mortgages were doing their own analysis. Larry  
 Craig was doing his own analysis.


All excellent reasons why you should not rely upon the analysis of 
others and do your own.

Thank you for hightlighting my point even better than I could.



 
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Another Point of View, Mario

2007-09-18 Thread Jersey Shore John

You also tend to come to the highly mistaken conclusion that people  
are proving your point when they, in fact, are DISproving your  
point. Must be nice in your lavender colored world.



On Sep 18, 2007, at 10:45 AM, justifiedright wrote:


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 By the way: just doing your own analysis isn't necessarily
 'science'. The guys at Enron were doing their own analysis. It
 didn't make it accounting. The Bush WMD guys were doing their own
 analysis. It didn't make it intelligence. The organizations who
were
 selling sub-prime mortgages were doing their own analysis. Larry
 Craig was doing his own analysis.

All excellent reasons why you should not rely upon the analysis of
others and do your own.

Thank you for hightlighting my point even better than I could.

[AsburyPark] Re: Another Twist on Development

2007-04-10 Thread wernerapnj

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
 Werner, 
 Any idea what that $150,000 fee we paid  was for? 
 
==

Payment for the construction inspector.

Werner



 
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Another shooting

2007-03-28 Thread Allan Peterson

Just saying that it is nice to see this happening

- Original Message 
From: dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:05:50 PM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Another shooting

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, Allan Peterson nnjallans1@ ... 
wrote:

 Here we go again... ..

 Saw in the Coaster that new police officers were brought on and going 
into training. I believe they said 9. Hope this will help. When we 
had and earlier shooting or murder, Bruno said he was going to add 
police. Again nice to see this happening. Unless they are being 
brought on because additional help would be needed if the homeless 
shelter opens full time.

What's your point? As anyone said at any time that extra police were 
not needed? Where you headin?

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[AsburyPark] Re: Another shooting

2007-03-28 Thread dfsavgny

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Allan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Just saying that it is nice to see this happening

I apologize then. I agree with you.




 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Another shooting

2007-03-27 Thread dfsavgny

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Allan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Here we go again.
 
 Saw in the Coaster that new police officers were brought on and going 
into training.  I believe they said 9.  Hope this will help.  When we 
had and earlier shooting or murder, Bruno said he was going to add 
police.  Again nice to see this happening.  Unless they are being 
brought on because additional help would be needed if the homeless 
shelter opens full time.
 

What's your point? As anyone said at any time that extra police were 
not needed? Where you headin?





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Asbury hotel bought for $16M
 
 Berkeley-Carteret to reopen shortly
 Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 02/28/07
 BY NANCY SHIELDS
 COASTAL MONMOUTH
 BUREAU
=

BC-Hotel, built 1925, Private Property = $16M

Convention Hall, built 1929, Public Property = $3.5M

Is something wrong with this picture?

Werner





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal

2007-02-28 Thread Fred

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
Don't you think the Waterfront Redevelopement plan had somethibg to 
do with the price tag? If there was no plan it would have been 
boarded up by now.

 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote:
 
  Asbury hotel bought for $16M
  
  Berkeley-Carteret to reopen shortly
  Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 02/28/07
  BY NANCY SHIELDS
  COASTAL MONMOUTH
  BUREAU
 =
 
 BC-Hotel, built 1925, Private Property = $16M
 
 Convention Hall, built 1929, Public Property = $3.5M
 
 Is something wrong with this picture?
 
 Werner





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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal

2007-02-28 Thread oakdorf

 
 BC-Hotel, built 1925, Private Property = $16M
 
 Convention Hall, built 1929, Public Property = $3.5M
 
 Is something wrong with this picture?
 
 Werner


One (Berkley) is an income producing property whose best use just might 
not be a hotel. 

The other, CH, will always have difficulty being profitable. It was 
built in a different era and needs extensive upgrades - which, while 
promised, have not been completed.





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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal

2007-02-28 Thread Allan Peterson

The Berkeley's value is today.  The deal has been just finalized.  You are 
comparing that to Convention Hall.  The 3.5 million is from when?

- Original Message 
From: wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 9:32:46 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, Fred asburydogma@ ... wrote:

 Asbury hotel bought for $16M

 Berkeley-Carteret to reopen shortly
 Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 02/28/07
 BY NANCY SHIELDS
 COASTAL MONMOUTH
 BUREAU
 = = = = =

BC-Hotel, built 1925, Private Property = $16M

Convention Hall, built 1929, Public Property = $3.5M

Is something wrong with this picture?

Werner

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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 If true, that's a big boost for the waterfront redevelopment and the 
 city, Deputy Mayor James Bruno said. I'm hoping they can work 
 together with Madison Marquette and Asbury Partners to bring the 
 north side of Convention Hall, the boardwalk area, back to life. It 
 looks like everything's falling into place.

Good news indeed. But I doubt the Cherits will play ball with Asbury 
Partners. They do not deal with amateurs. You need groups like Cherit 
and MM, not Partners.





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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal

2007-02-28 Thread oakdorf

they should just but them out - then:

 - knock down wesley grove and start over
 - knock down the rest of crap lingering on cookman/mattison
 - build the hotel in the entertainment district
 - buy out metro homes
 - pump some bucks into the west side

How come none of the new condos going up have accounted for ANY green 
space or setbacks from the sidewalks? 



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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 they should just but them out - then:
 
  - knock down wesley grove and start over
  - knock down the rest of crap lingering on cookman/mattison
  - build the hotel in the entertainment district
  - buy out metro homes
  - pump some bucks into the west side
 
 How come none of the new condos going up have accounted for ANY 
green 
 space or setbacks from the sidewalks?


More lot coverage = More density = More Profits
The Master Developer was in charge of the plan.

No one understood that providing appropriate set-backs, green space 
and public amenities actually increases property values.

They had a simple minded approch to this. Density = $$$

Werner



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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 More lot coverage = More density = More Profits
 The Master Developer was in charge of the plan.
 
 No one understood that providing appropriate set-backs, green space 
 and public amenities actually increases property values.
 
 They had a simple minded approch to this. Density = $$$

CAFRA has requirements for land coverage. The waterfront was permitted 
to have a higher coverage (I think approaching 90%) by counting in the 
coverage outside of the redevelopment zone, which is much lower and 
will be limited to that.

Why these schmucks got anything is beyond me. We got nothing in return.





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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
 How come none of the new condos going up have accounted for ANY green 
 space or setbacks from the sidewalks?


I am sure Werner will respond, but essentially - that was the Duany 
plan. Urban feel to the streetscape. I think Duany had too many pina 
coladas. We can thank him for no parking spaces as well.

Where would you think would be the natural location not to close in the 
streets with buildings to the lot lines? The waterfront of course. But 
not in AP. This whole town is ass backwards.



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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 CAFRA has requirements for land coverage. The waterfront was 
permitted 
 to have a higher coverage (I think approaching 90%) by counting in 
the 
 coverage outside of the redevelopment zone, which is much lower and 
 will be limited to that.
 
 Why these schmucks got anything is beyond me. We got nothing in 
return.
==

CAFRA is not the reason for the density. Bad planning is the cause. 
They exceeded the CAFRA standards by not confering with them through 
the planning process.

The deal was done, the plan was made, and then submitted for review 
after the fact. CAFRA flagged the density as eccessive, the City 
countered by asserting (falsely) that the infill area was part of 
the redevelopment area.

CAFRA bought into that and now lot coverage in the infill area is 
reduced to account for the excessive coverage at the beachfront.

Many State agencies were under pressure at the time to 'facilitate' 
redevelopment. But the root cause of our high desities is bad planning.

Werner




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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 CAFRA is not the reason for the density. Bad planning is the cause. 
 They exceeded the CAFRA standards by not confering with them through 
 the planning process.

You have to learn to read my friend. I did not say CAFRA was the cause. 
I just stated what you stated.





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[AsburyPark] Re: Another Done Deal