Re: [Assam] misuse of this mailing list
Dear Manoj, I think you are absolutely correct. Bhuban da's involvement in Assam net is a testament to his energy and enthusiasm. I hope to be able to replicate that some day. I am sure many of us will join in, once the forum is re-energized. I will be glad to jump in once in a while. Well, have a safe trip On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Manoj Kumar Das dasm...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Ramda We have to find ways to keep this heritage forum alive. Let's be more active with innovative discussions like we used to do. One reason for inactivation could be emergence of Orkut, FB, Twitter etc. I am sure Bhubanda did what he did with sincerest intentions. Regards Ram da Manoj On train from Mumbai to Delhi Sent from my iPad On 05-Jun-2012, at 8:49 AM, Ram Sarangapani assa...@gmail.com wrote: I kinda tend to agree with C'da and Sushanta on this. First off, for many of us who have been on this forum for a long time, Bhuban da needs no introduction. For a while now, Assam net seems to have little life. There was a time, when there lively, often heated discussions. It was fun, and educational at times. That was also the time when we all observed some sort of unwritten code of conduct. Most of us observed it. But, as it happens with open forums, a while back, a really obnoxious upstart started taking part in discussions, and that kind of made me decide that the Assam net was fast losing it's stature (I thought it had), and really did not want to exchange 'greetings' with that upstart. Well, that was the proverbial straw for me. Others, obviously had more legitimate reasons for staying away :) JS, Manoj, and others, Bhuban da has actually been keeping this net alive, almost alone, if you will. At this juncture, I am not even thinking whether posts need pass the mustard. Assam net is basically on life support, and anyone posting is actually helping it. So, if you guys and others make this net active lively again, we could maybe revisit other issues. Thanks, and hope all of you are doing well.it's been a long time since we met at this forum. Ram On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Utpal Brahma utpal_bra...@yahoo.com wrote: But Chandanda, Your Bee story was awsome. I -- nay am sure we -- look forward to reading more of it. Perhaps even some Hollywood producers can pick it up and make a new Blockbuster The Bee Story much like The Antz or The Toy Story. Very curious to know how is your Bee adventure going on . Utpal From: Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world assam@assamnet.org Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] misuse of this mailing list That was perceptive of you Sushanta. Manoj, I know Bhuban Kokaideu, nearly 80, very well. He is from Namti, same place I grew up in. Worked for BBC for a long time and lives with his family at London and in Spain parts of the year. Jyotirmay does have a point. But I am quite sure BK has been doing what he has been, in his way of keeping the semblance of a life ticking in this net. I used to be a major trouble-maker in Assamnet. But I have gotten tired of the same old, same old, even though I am open to lighting small fires now and then. Unfortunately one or two participants cannot really generate a meaningful discourse. There is a dearth of participants, perhaps due to apathy, perhaps due to a lingering fear of speaking openly and frankly and perhaps because of a weariness, like yours truly's. Even though I have a nominal presence in Facebook, I rarely participate there either. So my absence from this net has had nothing to do with social or anti-social media of any kind :-). Best. cm On Jun 3, 2012, at 1:14 PM, Sushanta Kar wrote: Dear All, I was also thinking that way like all of you about B Baruah's mails. But, I gave another thought. Please don't take it otherwise. Have you noticed this mail group is no more as active as it was in pre-Facebook dates? All most all of us became less active here. It's only he who is keeping this mail group busy. It's true that most of his mails are not related to Assam. It would be better to suggest him prefer Assam related post, He may not be well aware about the policy of this group, so he is posting whatever he likes. Sushanta Kar On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Manoj Kumar Das dasm...@gmail.com wrote: Yes,.. I also wondered who this Bhuban Baruah is... Sent from my iPad On 03-Jun-2012, at 4:55 PM, Jyotirmoy Sharma jyotirmoy.sha...@gmail.com wrote: Why is Assam Times being bombarded with irrelevant mails by one person. I joined the list as it used to be contain news, views about Assam and NE India. Now it seems it has become the job of one
Re: [Assam] misuse of this mailing list
I kinda tend to agree with C'da and Sushanta on this. First off, for many of us who have been on this forum for a long time, Bhuban da needs no introduction. For a while now, Assam net seems to have little life. There was a time, when there lively, often heated discussions. It was fun, and educational at times. That was also the time when we all observed some sort of unwritten code of conduct. Most of us observed it. But, as it happens with open forums, a while back, a really obnoxious upstart started taking part in discussions, and that kind of made me decide that the Assam net was fast losing it's stature (I thought it had), and really did not want to exchange 'greetings' with that upstart. Well, that was the proverbial straw for me. Others, obviously had more legitimate reasons for staying away :) JS, Manoj, and others, Bhuban da has actually been keeping this net alive, almost alone, if you will. At this juncture, I am not even thinking whether posts need pass the mustard. Assam net is basically on life support, and anyone posting is actually helping it. So, if you guys and others make this net active lively again, we could maybe revisit other issues. Thanks, and hope all of you are doing well.it's been a long time since we met at this forum. Ram On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Utpal Brahma utpal_bra...@yahoo.com wrote: But Chandanda, Your Bee story was awsome. I -- nay am sure we -- look forward to reading more of it. Perhaps even some Hollywood producers can pick it up and make a new Blockbuster The Bee Story much like The Antz or The Toy Story. Very curious to know how is your Bee adventure going on . Utpal From: Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world assam@assamnet.org Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] misuse of this mailing list That was perceptive of you Sushanta. Manoj, I know Bhuban Kokaideu, nearly 80, very well. He is from Namti, same place I grew up in. Worked for BBC for a long time and lives with his family at London and in Spain parts of the year. Jyotirmay does have a point. But I am quite sure BK has been doing what he has been, in his way of keeping the semblance of a life ticking in this net. I used to be a major trouble-maker in Assamnet. But I have gotten tired of the same old, same old, even though I am open to lighting small fires now and then. Unfortunately one or two participants cannot really generate a meaningful discourse. There is a dearth of participants, perhaps due to apathy, perhaps due to a lingering fear of speaking openly and frankly and perhaps because of a weariness, like yours truly's. Even though I have a nominal presence in Facebook, I rarely participate there either. So my absence from this net has had nothing to do with social or anti-social media of any kind :-). Best. cm On Jun 3, 2012, at 1:14 PM, Sushanta Kar wrote: Dear All, I was also thinking that way like all of you about B Baruah's mails. But, I gave another thought. Please don't take it otherwise. Have you noticed this mail group is no more as active as it was in pre-Facebook dates? All most all of us became less active here. It's only he who is keeping this mail group busy. It's true that most of his mails are not related to Assam. It would be better to suggest him prefer Assam related post, He may not be well aware about the policy of this group, so he is posting whatever he likes. Sushanta Kar On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Manoj Kumar Das dasm...@gmail.com wrote: Yes,.. I also wondered who this Bhuban Baruah is... Sent from my iPad On 03-Jun-2012, at 4:55 PM, Jyotirmoy Sharma jyotirmoy.sha...@gmail.com wrote: Why is Assam Times being bombarded with irrelevant mails by one person. I joined the list as it used to be contain news, views about Assam and NE India. Now it seems it has become the job of one person to keep mailing news from other newspapers which are of no significance to this mailing list. Most people who use this mailing list have internet and are able to look for news( from other papers ) concerning their interests. Please stop this email abuse. JS ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা
[Assam] Beware Our Sainted NGOs - Tavleen Singh
This is great column by TS. While there may be some NGOs who are doing great work, one often comes across more rotten apples in the basket. Unfortunately, one discovers these rotten apples only after dealing with them. IMHO, Assam seems to be somehow more vulnerable, and there are NGOs popping up all over the place for a number of years now. TS is absolutely correct, few want to produce accounts readily. --Ram Beware Our Sainted NGO’s *No. But, I am happy that you people in the media are finally discovering what she is about. It is you people who built her up just because she was the first woman to join the IPS (Indian Police Service) and not one of you noticed that she never really achieved much as a police officer* The day after the Indian Express reported that Kiran Bedi regularly fudged her travel bills I met a retired police officer at a Diwali party. I knew he had been a batch mate of hers when they joined the police force so inevitably conversation was about her. When I asked if the revelations surprised him he grinned from ear to ear and said, ‘No. But, I am happy that you people in the media are finally discovering what she is about. It is you people who built her up just because she was the first woman to join the IPS (Indian Police Service) and not one of you noticed that she never really achieved much as a police officer.’ Now that the sheen is beginning to wear off the NGOs who formed Anna Hazare’s team it is time that we asked some questions about the NGO movement in general. So allow me to share my own encounters with NGO activities. It happens that the first NGO I ever met was the late Anil Agarwal. He was a relatively obscure reporter in Delhi and I knew him from regular meetings at press conferences. It was at one of these that he told me that he planned to leave journalism to start an NGO. Anil was a passionate environmentalist and his Centre for Science and Environment soon acquired credibility. After his death ten years ago his legacy passed on to his friend, Sunita Narain, who unlike Anil seemed more interested in personal glory than the environment. So she took on Coca Cola and Pepsi by charging them with allowing more poison in their Indian products than would be allowed in Western countries. The news made headlines and the media built Ms Narain up so assiduously that she now sits on the Prime Minister’s environmental council. Nobody has noticed that the cause that made her famous was a sham. The reason why Coke and Pepsi may have a miniscule amount of poison in their Indian products is because the quality of water in our fair and wondrous land is inferior to that in most other countries. The truth is that our drinking water, especially in rural parts, is so bad that if a child were dying of diarrhea its life could be saved by a soft drink rather than a drink of water. But, Ms Narain was unbothered by this vital bit of information. When I asked her why she did what she did her response was that she could not answer my questions since I seemed ‘prejudiced’ against her. Ms Narain is not the only self-publicist in the environmental NGO business. Vandana Shiva is another star. So famous has she become because of her crusade against modern methods of farming that she is a regular on the international conference circuit and so it was that she turned up in Davos some years ago. When she expounded her theory that it was the destruction of traditional farming methods that was the cause of rural poverty in India she ended up making a complete fool of herself but in India she continues to be a star. As does her ideological sister, Suman Sahai. Ms Sahai came to see me one day many years ago and made a compelling argument against multi-national seed companies like Monsanto who at that time had just entered the Indian market. These companies, she said, were going to become major exploiters of Indian farmers by selling them seeds that they would not be able to use again. They would need to buy fresh seeds every sowing season. When I took Ms Sahai’s case to my brother who is a farmer he said, ‘Who is this woman? Does she not know that with all hybrid seeds we have to buy new seeds every time? Does she not know that at the moment we are at the mercy of state owned seed companies who sell us bad seeds and we can do nothing about it? Does she not know that we welcome the entry of companies like Monsanto because they will force government companies to improve their services?’ It is not just my encounters with our so-called environmentalist NGOs that have made me totally cynical about the NGO movement in India. I have met NGOs in the health and nutrition sector who have managed to raise millions of dollars abroad for the supposed cause of eliminating rural poverty in India. Nearly all the NGOs working in this sector spend more money on their ‘administrative’ costs than they do on eliminating poverty and disease in our villages. But, they get away with this because they never need to render
[Assam] Go Cards!
I guess, we have to ultimately congratulate you St.Lousians for the Cards win yesterday, at some point. :-) That was a good win.. Ram ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Racial profiling' in Hyderabad university sparks row - TOI
This from the Times of India. NE students profiled! A darn shame! ---Ram http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Racial-profiling-in-Hyderabad-university-sparks-row/articleshow/10457371.cms 'Racial profiling' in Hyderabad university sparks rowNikhila Henry Mahesh BuddiNikhila Henry Mahesh Buddi, TNN | Oct 23, 2011, 03.22AM IST article Read more:Vice-chancellor Ramakrishna Ramaswamyhttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/Vice-chancellor-Ramakrishna-Ramaswamy |University of Hyderabadhttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/University-of-Hyderabad |racial profilinghttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/racial-profiling SHARE AND DISCUSS 30 A University of Hyderabad initiative to end drinking and drug use on campus took an ugly turn as the vice-chancellor suggested to faculty members they begin with students from the northeast. HYDERABAD: A University of Hyderabadhttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/University-of-Hyderabadinitiative to end drinking and drug use on campus took an ugly turn as the vice-chancellor suggested to faculty members they begin with students from the northeast. Describing it as a case of racial profiling, students held daylong protests on Friday, ending in the official apologizing in writing for the inadvertent move. Vice-chancellor Ramakrishna Ramaswamy's concern on alcohol and drugs on-campus grew over the past 20 days when in two incidents of violence, students were found to be inebriated. Students from the northeast said they had been singled out in both cases, though others were involved as well. On October 17, Ramaswamy sent a letter to faculty members from the northeast, saying he wanted to meet them regarding consumption of alcohol and drugs on campus. At the meeting, he informed them that the university administration would carry out a series of reform measures to curb consumption of alcohol and drugs on campus and that he would start with the northeastern community. Furious at the statement, students held a rally, demanding the V-C apologize for shortlisting them. Alcoholism or drug abuse affects people across the world. So when it comes to reforming student community on campus why should the V-C call up the faculty members of northeastern community? It is a clear case of racial profilinghttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/racial-profilingand we are not ready to put up with this, said a student of the university. This will continue if we do not protest, said another. The incident appeared to add to already simmering resentment. Northeasterners said they were teased and branded fast and treated differently by others and the V-C's statement was a damaging reflection of how they were being perceived. The agitation of north-eastern students was supported by other students as well. The university is an egalitarian space and the fact that the head of a university thinks that a certain student community needs to be profiled, counselled and corrected corrupts the very nature of that space, said a student. By the end of the day, Ramaswamy said he had merely consulted faculty members on the incidents of violence in the past, which inadvertently gave the impression of profiling. If it has hurt your sentiments, it is deeply regrettable, he said in a written statement, which was circulated in the university. Dean of student welfare, B Rajashekhar, said that it was norm in the university to involve faculty members to resolve student issues and the latest move was no different. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'গদাধৰ ৰজা' (শ্ৰব্য কিতাপ) শ্ৰব্য নাট্য-পাঠ
Pankaj, This is a great initiative, and I think this is the first time anyone or group has launched audio versions of Assamese books. Keep up the good work. Very impressive! --Ram da 2011/10/18 Pankaj Barah pankajbo...@gmail.com Dear All, A group of young enthusiastic Assamese people are panning for an experimental project to produce online audible version of some classic Assamese masterpieces. As a beginning, we have taken Roxoraj Lakshinath Bezbaruah's short play Godadhor Roja. Here we launch it for audience. Just keep it mind that this is not an 'DRAMA' it is audible version of Drama script or Audio book (শ্ৰব্য নাট্য-পাঠ). We would appreciate your feedback and comments. Click the link given below and PLAY- http://soundcloud.com/kothabotora/godadhor-roja ফেচবুকৰ ‘অসমীয়াত কথা-বতৰা’ গোটৰ এটা পৰীক্ষামূলক প্ৰকল্পৰ যোগেদি ‘সামূহিক স্বেচ্ছামূলক অৱদানে’ৰে প্ৰস্তুত কৰি আপোনালোকলৈ আগবঢ়োৱা হৈছে লক্ষ্মীনাথ বেজবৰুৱাদেৱৰ 'গদাধৰ ৰজা' (শ্ৰব্য কিতাপ) শ্ৰব্য নাট্য-পাঠ । এইখন মূল নাটকখনৰ শ্ৰৱ্য ৰূপ হে, ঠিক শ্ৰৱ্য নাটক পাঠৰ সুবিধাৰ বাবে আটাইখিনি একেলগে গোটাই লোৱা হৈছে।মূল কিতাপখনৰ শ্ৰৱ্য ৰূপ এটি প্ৰস্তুত কৰাটোহে এই প্ৰকল্পৰ মূল উদ্দেশ্য। চৰিত্ৰ ৰূপায়ণত : -- কমলা – মৌচুমী ভুঞা চৌধুৰী (জাৰ্মানী) বিমলা – মিতালী বৰ্মন (নতুন দিল্লী) গেন্ধেলা – মৃণাল জ্যোতি গোস্বামী (গুৱাহাটী) মঙলা – প্ৰদ্যুৎ জ্যোতি শইকীয়া (কৰিমগঞ্জ, অসম) দেউতাকৰ চিঠিৰ পাঠ – পংকজ বৰা (নৰৱে) আঁত ধৰিছে – উদ্দীপ তালুকদাৰে (বৰপেটা, অসম)। সম্পাদনা আৰু সংযোজন—চাও দীপাংকৰ বৰুৱা (তিনিচুকীয়া , অসম) বিশেষ কৃতজ্ঞতা— নাটখন ইউনিক'ডত ৰূপান্তৰ কৰি দিয়াৰ বাবে অঞ্জল বৰা (ইন্দ'ৰ, মধ্য-প্ৰদেশ), পংকজ বৰা আৰু ‘অসমীয়াত কথা-বতৰা’ গোটৰ সমূহ সদস্য। সামগ্ৰিক পৰিকল্পনা আৰু প্ৰযোজনা: উদ্দীপ তালুকদাৰ We would also invite you to visit the community based Unicode website on Assamese literature http://www.xahitya.org/ ( অসমীয়া ইউনিক'ডত লিখা মেলা কৰাৰ এক সম্পূৰ্ণ বিনামূলীয়া মুকলি মঞ্চ , এটা বৌদ্ধিক আন্দোলন৷ ) Regards, -- Pankaj Barah ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] The Living Bridges of Meghalaya
Today, while watching TV, I was pleasantly surprised by Timothy Allen's 'Living Root Bridges'. Here is a great write-up, and Allen's comments. It seems very few in India, and even in Assam are aware of these bridges. And now there is a steady flow of Indian and Western tourists to the Cherrapunji area, where these bridges are located. http://humanplanet.com/timothyallen/2011/03/living-root-bridges-bbc-human-planet/ All I can say is, tour operators in Assam and Meghalaya, may take note. --Ram ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Anyone from Assam at Copenhagen?
Sashanka, I know there is one Assamese in Norway, Pankaj Barah. His email is pankajbo...@gmail.com He may know if there are any Assamese in Denmark. Best Wishes Ram da On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 3:09 AM, Sashanka Dutta sashanka_2...@yahoo.co.ukwrote: Hi, Anyone from Assam at Copenhagen, Denmark? Thanks in advance for the info. Regards, Sashanka ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Philosophy as an Art of Dying - from the NYT
This past June, The New York Times had an interesting column on 'Philosophy as an Art of Dying'. The column goes into the issue of paradoxical situations that arise where philosophers (and ordinary folks) are sometimes faced with. Philosophies, principles, politics and religion on one side, and the realism of certain death (like execution, self-immolation, mob fury, etc) on the other. How exactly do people approach the finality of death and holding on to their beliefs principles in those final moments.. The author gives some great examples from Socrates, and Hypatia, to Sir Thomas More, the Tudor Statesman. India too has her own sets of philosophers, activists and leaders who are/were willing to lay down their lives for a cause. And then, I came upon this interesting piece of news from the Times of India about Anna Hazare's fasting and his views of death (and philosophy). Here's a small portion is quoted below: Hours later, Hazare told his supporters: I told him then that I would decide by 10pm after listening to my conscience. My conscience asked me why are you afraid of dying. You had earlier said that you are not afraid of dying, then why are you scared of dying now. I have decided not to take any medicine. I would ask Dr Trehan and others not to mistake me in this regard. Please do not mistake me for (not taking the medicine), he said What do netters think? --Ram __ Below is the NYT column http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/philosophy-as-an-art-of-dying/ June 12, 2011, *5:35 pm* Philosophy as an Art of Dying By COSTICA BRADATANhttp://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/author/costica-bradatan/ The Stone http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/category/the-stone/ is a forum for contemporary philosophers on issues both timely and timeless. Tags: death http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/death/, death sentenceshttp://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/death-sentences/, Hypatia http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/hypatia/, Jan Patočkahttp://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/jan-patocka/, martyrdom http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/martyrdom/, Philosophyhttp://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/philosophy/, Plato http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/plato/, Socrateshttp://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/socrates/, Thomas More http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/thomas-more/, Tunisiahttp://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/tunisia/ It happens rarely, but when it does it causes a commotion of great proportions; it attracts the attention of all, becomes a popular topic for discussion and debate in marketplaces and taverns. It drives people to take sides, quarrel and fight, which for things philosophical is quite remarkable. It happened to Socrates, Hypatia, Thomas More, Giordano Bruno, Jan Patočka, and a few others. Due to an irrevocable death sentence, imminent mob execution or torture to death, these philosophers found themselves in the most paradoxical of situations: lovers of logic and rational argumentation, silenced by brute force; professional makers of discourses, banned from using the word; masters of debate and contradiction, able to argue no more. What was left of these philosophers then? Just their silence, their sheer physical presence. The only means of expression left to them, their own bodies — and dying bodies at that. Tell me how you deal with your fear of annihilation, and I will tell you about your philosophy. The situation has its irony. It is an old custom among philosophers of various stripes and persuasions to display a certain contempt toward the body. Traditionally, in Western philosophy at least, the body has been with few exceptions seen as inferior to the mind, spirit or soul — the realm of “the flesh,” the domain of the incomprehensible, of blind instincts and unclean impulses. And so here are the condemned philosophers: speechless, with only their dying bodies to express themselves. One may quip that the body has finally got its chance to take its revenge on the philosophers. But how have they arrived there in the first place? It so happens that some philosophers entertain and profess certain ideas that compel them to lead a certain way of life. Sometimes, however, their way of life leads them to a situation where they have to choose between remaining faithful to their ideas or renouncing them altogether. The former translates into “dying for idea,” whereas the latter usually involves not only a denunciation of that philosopher’s lifestyle, but also, implicitly, an invalidation of the philosophical views that inspired that way of life. This seems to be the toughest of choices. In simpler terms, it boils down to the following dilemma: if you decide to remain faithful to your views, you will be no more. Your own death will be your last opportunity to put your ideas into practice. On the other hand, if you choose to “betray” your ideas (and perhaps yourself as well), you remain alive, but with no
Re: [Assam] Uttam is a now a real Hero
Thanks for forwarding this, Wahid da. This is really good news, and congratulations to Uttam. Nice photos. On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 5:23 AM, Wahid Saleh - Indiawijzer w.sa...@indiawijzer.nl wrote: With much pleasure and pride I would like to inform that our Uttam ( Parijat Academy) is now a Real Hero. He is one of the 24 heroes selected by IBN18 and was honoured in Mumbai. Please find below a Facebook link with 36 images of the function. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2355144842613 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2355144842613set=a.2355135482379.21 38346.1369976187type=1theater set=a.2355135482379.2138346.1369976187type=1theater Real Heroes in partnership with Reliance Industries Limited, India's largest private sector enterprise is a path breaking editorial initiative from Network18. The award recognises and acknowledges ordinary Indians who are making a difference to people's lives. In its 4th edition, this annual felicitation honoured 24 unknown and unsung heroes of India. The efforts of these 24 Real Heroes from across the country in fields as diverse as Women's Empowerment, Environment, Youth, Social Welfare, Health Disability ,Education Children and Sports have indubitably contributed to the betterment of their immediate community The IBN18 Editorial Board drawn from the editorial masterminds of CNN-IBN research, deliberate and then finalize the 24 winners keeping in mind their contribution to the society in their respective fields. CNN-IBN Real Heroes Award Function 2011 presented by Reliance Industries Limited was on 17th August 2011 at Hotel Trident, Narimon Point, Mumbai. There was 24 award winners plus one Lifetime Achievement Award. 24+1=25. The Regal Room of Hotel Trident packed with about 300 people. Rajdeep Sardesai, Editor-in-Chief, CNN-IBN, IBN 7, IBN Lokmat was presenting. The Function was started with Nita Ambani's welcome speech and Music instrumental play by Aman and Ayan son of Ustad Amjad Ali Khan. The Award giving program started with Women and Welfare category and was given by Asha Bhosle to this category winner, children and education winner given by Arup Patnaik, Mumbai Police Commissioner, Sports by Anil Kumble, Social Welfare category and Life time Achievement by Mukesh Ambani , Youth category by Vinod Chopra ( film director), Health and Disability category by Yesh Chopra ( film director), Environment category by Ustad Amjad Ali Khan. Link to the CNN IBN Real Hero Award winner website is http://realheroes.com/index.php Cheers Wahid Saleh ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] SP President Deven Sharma's comments after downgrade of the U.S. triple-A credit rating
Hehehe, Utpal... took the words outtamymouth :-) While Desi born CEOs and Presidents don't have to be Republicans or Dems, they are susceptible to the same errors (?), and often laced with bottom line numbers :-) On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:40 PM, Utpal Brahma utpal_bra...@yahoo.comwrote: Isn't it the same S P who had ranked the mortgage backed securities with AAA status that brought about the economic debacle? Isn't it the same S P that awarded Lehman Brothers with AAA till the last moment. Sure they do have credibility But that does not dispute the fact that the US needs to clean up mess. And surely a lot of mess !! From: Dilip Deka dilipd...@yahoo.com To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world assam@assamnet.org Sent: Monday, August 8, 2011 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] SP President Deven Sharma's comments after downgrade of the U.S. triple-A credit rating Do you think Deven Sharma is a republican in disguise trying to throw Obama out? Or is he in league with Obama to put the blame on the republicans in the house? Or is he a realist calling things as they really are? We have enough economists in the net who can comment on it if they want to educate us. Thanks, Dilip Deka === SP President: We Have No Political Agenda Published: Monday, 8 Aug 2011 | 5:14 PM ET Text Size By: Margo D. Beller Special to CNBC.com * Twitter * LinkedIn * More Share * Standard Poor's CEO defended his company's downgrade of the U.S. triple-A credit rating, saying SP had no political agenda and was not overcompensating for missing the subprime mortgage mess that precipitated the current economic situation. Our role is to call the risks objectively, with transparency, and that’s what we try to do to fulfill our role and that’s what our job is for the benefit of investors, Deven Sharma told CNBC Monday. He pointed out that going from a triple-A to double-A-plus rating doesn’t mean [the U.S. is] going to default, it just means its more risky today than a year ago. SP factored in the political process because it speaks to how the fiscal, economic and monetary choices are being made, Sharma said, adding he was pleased by President Obama's speech today addressing the need for U.S. lawmakers to have a new sense of urgency to tackle long-term deficit spending. SP's view was based on a number of factors including projections of rising debt levels. Sharma said despite cuts mandated by last week's debt-ceiling legislation, the U.S. 2015 debt level will be $14 trillion, or 25 percent higher than today. The fact is, the debt levels are still doubling from where we are today and that is an issue to address, he said. He said SP regretted its part in the subprime mortgage mess. Clearly the housing declines were much more severe than we forecasted or anticipated, he said, and the rating agency has made many changes in putting new checks and balances in our organization. We are committed to the reform process. Sharma said the drop in markets Monday was not necessarily a reflection of the SP downgrade. The market reacts in many ways, sometimes unexplainable, but our ratings really address the fundamentals of the creditworthiness, he said. The market could be reacting to the fact there is a slowdown in economic growth. It could be reacting to what’s happening in Europe. It could be what’s happening in the U.S. There are multiple factors that...contribute to how the market reacts. From: Ram Dhar ramd...@hotmail.com To: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Monday, August 8, 2011 8:08 PM Subject: [Assam] SP President Deven Sharma's comments after downgrade of the U.S. triple-A credit rating Read and watch Deven Sharma's comment on the downgrade which has sent shock waves across global financial market. http://www.cnbc.com/id/44062256 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] (non) Acceptance of the US visa application fees at Guwahati
Oh..I am sorry C'da. It has nothing to do with this 'Visa fee' issue. Ankur brought it up, and I was replying to him mail. Alpana's email got hacked. Many people were getting emails supposedly from her. - even I got one, and responded back. Ram On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 24, 2011, at 9:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Yes, Ankur.. her email did get hacked... even I got fooled *** Whose e-mail, Ram? Is it in reference to this issue? c-da We are doing fine, hope things are going good for all of you. Ram da On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Ram Sarangapani assa...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Ankur, Please accept our sincere congratulations, Your efforts, in steadfastly pursuing this matter, has paid off. This will be of great help and convenience to a lot of people in Assam/ NE instead of going to Calcutta. Great job! Ram da On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Ankur Bora ankur_bora2...@yahoo.com wrote: Dear All, There were a couple of postings on this issue recently in various Assam and North East based yahoo groups. It's about application payment for US visa interview through HDFC bank. HDFC bank has been authorized to accept the US visa application fee by the US consulate. However, the HDFC bank branches either in Guwahati or any other city of North East region do not have the facility for accepting the money and issuing the receipt. This has caused tremendous inconvenience as people have to go all the way to Calcutta to pay the fees. There was question posted - Does everyone travel to Kolkata just to pay the fee? - Unfortunately it was true unless he has frineds/relatives there. We thought it is time for an initiative to make the US Consulate accept fees at banks in the North East, given that there is more than a trickle of traffic to US. I submitted an email to the HDFC bank. Intially they were reluctant to pursue the matter. I however continued to pursue mainly I was getting supporting emails from the FASS and Noerth East India group. Finally HDFC bank informed that they received the approval from Embassy to start collection of application fees at Fancy Bazar branch in Guwahati. Finally , Hemanta Bayan Deputy Vice President of HDFC bank informed that the visa application fees would be accepted from 25th July 2011 at Fancy Bazar. This is a successful collective effort and I am sharing the news Cheers, Ankur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] (non) Acceptance of the US visa application fees at Guwahati
Thanks for rubbing it in, A:-) I thought, I was sending the mail only to Ankur... Ram On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Alpana B. Sarangapani absarangap...@hotmail.com wrote: Good one, C'da. There was just no refernce to that mail. :) Hope you all are doing well. this is really me, writing. Regards, -Alpana From: cmaha...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:55:06 -0500 To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] (non) Acceptance of the US visa application fees at Guwahati On Jul 24, 2011, at 9:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Yes, Ankur.. her email did get hacked... even I got fooled *** Whose e-mail, Ram? Is it in reference to this issue? c-da We are doing fine, hope things are going good for all of you. Ram da On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Ram Sarangapani assa...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Ankur, Please accept our sincere congratulations, Your efforts, in steadfastly pursuing this matter, has paid off. This will be of great help and convenience to a lot of people in Assam/ NE instead of going to Calcutta. Great job! Ram da On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Ankur Bora ankur_bora2...@yahoo.com wrote: Dear All, There were a couple of postings on this issue recently in various Assam and North East based yahoo groups. It's about application payment for US visa interview through HDFC bank. HDFC bank has been authorized to accept the US visa application fee by the US consulate. However, the HDFC bank branches either in Guwahati or any other city of North East region do not have the facility for accepting the money and issuing the receipt. This has caused tremendous inconvenience as people have to go all the way to Calcutta to pay the fees. There was question posted - Does everyone travel to Kolkata just to pay the fee? - Unfortunately it was true unless he has frineds/relatives there. We thought it is time for an initiative to make the US Consulate accept fees at banks in the North East, given that there is more than a trickle of traffic to US. I submitted an email to the HDFC bank. Intially they were reluctant to pursue the matter. I however continued to pursue mainly I was getting supporting emails from the FASS and Noerth East India group. Finally HDFC bank informed that they received the approval from Embassy to start collection of application fees at Fancy Bazar branch in Guwahati. Finally , Hemanta Bayan Deputy Vice President of HDFC bank informed that the visa application fees would be accepted from 25th July 2011 at Fancy Bazar. This is a successful collective effort and I am sharing the news Cheers, Ankur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] (non) Acceptance of the US visa application fees at Guwahati
Dear Ankur, Please accept our sincere congratulations, Your efforts, in steadfastly pursuing this matter, has paid off. This will be of great help and convenience to a lot of people in Assam/ NE instead of going to Calcutta. Great job! Ram da On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Ankur Bora ankur_bora2...@yahoo.comwrote: Dear All, There were a couple of postings on this issue recently in various Assam and North East based yahoo groups. It's about application payment for US visa interview through HDFC bank. HDFC bank has been authorized to accept the US visa application fee by the US consulate. However, the HDFC bank branches either in Guwahati or any other city of North East region do not have the facility for accepting the money and issuing the receipt. This has caused tremendous inconvenience as people have to go all the way to Calcutta to pay the fees. There was question posted - Does everyone travel to Kolkata just to pay the fee? - Unfortunately it was true unless he has frineds/relatives there. We thought it is time for an initiative to make the US Consulate accept fees at banks in the North East, given that there is more than a trickle of traffic to US. I submitted an email to the HDFC bank. Intially they were reluctant to pursue the matter. I however continued to pursue mainly I was getting supporting emails from the FASS and Noerth East India group. Finally HDFC bank informed that they received the approval from Embassy to start collection of application fees at Fancy Bazar branch in Guwahati. Finally , Hemanta Bayan Deputy Vice President of HDFC bank informed that the visa application fees would be accepted from 25th July 2011 at Fancy Bazar. This is a successful collective effort and I am sharing the news Cheers, Ankur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] (non) Acceptance of the US visa application fees at Guwahati
Yes, Ankur.. her email did get hacked... even I got fooled We are doing fine, hope things are going good for all of you. Ram da On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Ram Sarangapani assa...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Ankur, Please accept our sincere congratulations, Your efforts, in steadfastly pursuing this matter, has paid off. This will be of great help and convenience to a lot of people in Assam/ NE instead of going to Calcutta. Great job! Ram da On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Ankur Bora ankur_bora2...@yahoo.comwrote: Dear All, There were a couple of postings on this issue recently in various Assam and North East based yahoo groups. It's about application payment for US visa interview through HDFC bank. HDFC bank has been authorized to accept the US visa application fee by the US consulate. However, the HDFC bank branches either in Guwahati or any other city of North East region do not have the facility for accepting the money and issuing the receipt. This has caused tremendous inconvenience as people have to go all the way to Calcutta to pay the fees. There was question posted - Does everyone travel to Kolkata just to pay the fee? - Unfortunately it was true unless he has frineds/relatives there. We thought it is time for an initiative to make the US Consulate accept fees at banks in the North East, given that there is more than a trickle of traffic to US. I submitted an email to the HDFC bank. Intially they were reluctant to pursue the matter. I however continued to pursue mainly I was getting supporting emails from the FASS and Noerth East India group. Finally HDFC bank informed that they received the approval from Embassy to start collection of application fees at Fancy Bazar branch in Guwahati. Finally , Hemanta Bayan Deputy Vice President of HDFC bank informed that the visa application fees would be accepted from 25th July 2011 at Fancy Bazar. This is a successful collective effort and I am sharing the news Cheers, Ankur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Space Shuttle Discovery Crew Cabin View
Thanks C'da That was awesome! Ram On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Here is something worth the couple of minutes to view: a 360 panorama of the Space Shuttle Discovery crew cabin flight deck. This is pretty cooland maybe the last time we get to see it before it’s stuffed and mounted at the Smithsonian! ENJOY…… Lighting is from the internal instrument panel lights… http://360vr.com/2011/06/22-discovery-flight-deck-opf_6236/index.html ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Re;[assam] Too Many people for our overburdened planet
Thanks, Bhuban da On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 5:24 AM, bbar...@aol.com wrote: Dear Ram Please find it here below. Regards bhuban Too many people for our overburdened planet Sean O'Grady's The more people come to the UK, the better it is for us all (1 July) beggars belief. Why would we think it better to create energy shortages, resource shortages, lowered quality of life, a housing crisis, lowered standard of living, more air pollution, grid-locked traffic, bio-diversity loss, and a dozen other calamities caused by increasing population pressures? For many decades there has been a wilful blindness – almost a taboo – in recognising that relentless human-population growth is one of the pre-eminent problems we face. In 1950 world population was barely over 2 billion; in October this year it will hit 7 billion. In most countries today existing populations are not living environmentally sustainably, yet if current birth rates persist, the United Nations Population Division warned in March 2009, our population will exceed 11bn by 2050. Governments will be struggling with millions of unemployed and hungry people attracted to violence and extremism. Most environmental organisations tell us that if only we each reduced our environmental demand, population growth would not be a problem. But our economic system, predicated on growth, is driving us in the opposite direction. If governments won't talk population, then they are not serious about cutting emissions or managing food and water supplies. The more crowded we become, the more governments will police our behaviour and restrict our activities. We still have a choice; the world badly needs a grown-up, rational discussion of the population issue. Brian McGavin, Wilmslow, Cheshire Sean O'Grady gives a classic example of just what is wrong with economic thought today. Economists, the high priests of modern political discourse, cannot escape the fantasy world they have created. First he sneers at countries with lousy demographics, by which he means those with the gently declining populations which optimists hope will contribute to a levelling off of the suicidal level of human numbers by the middle of the century. He then states that the bigger our future generations are, the better it will be as they will pay more taxes and therefore be better able to service our debts. Under such logic this new generation as it ages will need an even larger one to follow and this in its turn will have greater numbers yet to contend with. Just how many such exponentially increasing generations can this stubbornly finite, resource-poor and ecologically damaged planet cope with? You do the maths, Sean, you're the economist. Steve Edwards Haywards Heath, West SussexEthiopia faces its worst drought for a decade (report, 4 July). The UN now classifies large areas of Somalia, Ethiopia, Djibouti and Kenya as in a crisis or an emergency. The International Development Secretary Andrew Mitchell is right in saying: Through no fault of its own, the Horn of Africa is experiencing a severe drought caused by the failed rains. But according to the World Bank, since 1960 the population of Somalia has grown threefold to 9 million; Ethiopia fourfold to 80 million; and Kenya a massive fivefold to 40 million. Such increases are clearly unsustainable, especially in the face of the climate change now occurring. Those major charities that have refused to acknowledge the need to accompany their food-aid programmes with family-planning initiatives have conspired in creating the scale of the tragedies now unfolding in the poorest parts of the world. These are the fruits of past political reticence to recognise the need to restrain and reverse population growth in both the (poor) developing and the (high-consumption) developed worlds alike. Alan Stedall, Birmingham Sean O'Grady's the more, the better paean to immigration begs the question why bother with border controls (Migrants can put the Great back in Britain, 4 July). Admittedly, O'Grady and his fellow globalists would keep controls, of a sort, as long as the CBI is allowed to continue to dictate a lax immigration policy. Hoovering up expensively trained professionals from poorer countries via a points-based system is nothing to be proud of, nor is the creation of a low-wage economy via an influx of unskilled immigrants. Mass immigration is less an inevitable feature of modern life and more an addiction. Yugo Kovach, Winterborne Houghton, Dorset Sean O'Grady would be well advised to consider the fate of Bernie Madoff, currently languishing in an American jail for defrauding investors, when he tries to convince us that we need more and more people coming into the world to support more and more people requiring pensions as the get older. Sir David Attenborough, in his speech to the Royal Society of Arts earlier this year, masterfully described such flawed thinking as an
Re: [Assam] [assam] TOO MNY PEOPLE FOR OUR OVERBURDENED PLANET
Dear Bhuban da, That link did not work for me. Gives me an error. Thanks, --Ram On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 8:31 AM, bbar...@aol.com wrote: Dear Netters I posted a couple of letters on immigration which appeared in the Independent earlier. I hope you would at least recall the concluding para of one letter(Free the borders and let the immigrants run the country) which reads: Let them, as they do now, run Lloyds Banking group, captain the England cricket team and marry the queen. High immigration means we can again afford aircraft carriers with planes on them, and free nursing care, homes and higher education for all. We would have lost the battle for our borders; but won the economic war. I do not know who actually run the Lloyd Banking Group (I will have to find out). The Cricket Captain is Nasser Hussain who became well known in the late 1990s. and the reference to the Queen is her marriage to Prince Phillip of Greece, who is jokingly mentioned as the first immigrant to Great Britain. The UK correspondents ignored the funny side of these pieces entirely and dealt with the matter seriously, covering various aspects.. Since it is long, I am not attempting a précis of it all.. The web link is http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/letters/letters-perspectives-on-phone-ha .. There are other letters on a miscellany of issues on this site, all jumbled up, so please browse through them with patience.. bhuban ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] About ICICI Bank NRI Svcs
C'da, I know Alpana uses ICICI quite often. Sometime last year we sent a check to a charity based in Assam and Delhi. Oh, boy, did ICICI give us the runaround. The first thing they did was to promptly debit the amount from our account here. But they did not credit the charity, but instead kept the amount as 'withheld' or something. They wanted a copy of the Passport (relevant pages), and some other details. We felt very uncomfortable with that process. We faxed the passport copy - they didn't receive it, and again, and again. The thing is they lost it the darn copy. The charity administrator was in Delhi, and had to personally go several times to the ICICI branch to get this resolved. All this, in spite of the fact that we have an account in ICICI, and so does the charity. I promised myself not to get into this headache of gifting by checks - unless you go there personally and give cash maybe.. But, it is not just ICICI. The State Bank of India has similar problems. When we approached them at their Chennai branch, the lady was very efficient, got us the money etc fast. She wanted to know, why we are not depositing/using the account more frequently. I told her their online banking does not work. She got into a huff, and told me NRIs don't know what they are talking. She gave me new passcodes, and promised me it would work like a charm. Well, we came back, and tried, and tried... till I started thinking, it really must be me. Later on, come to find out that it works SBI to SBI - and I must have a SBI account in the US. This was a few years ago... maybe things have changed, but I don't have the patience nor the inclination. --Ram On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know if any netter has used ICICI Bank's much vaunted NRI services. I have and it has not been fun! See below: From: Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com Date: July 7, 2011 8:53:33 AM CDT To: NRI Service n...@icicibank.com Cc: Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com Subject: Re: 'ICICICARE=042-078-385' Cannot Login I am glad that finally someone read my mail to respond about the issues and not merely sent back a perfunctory form letter. Thank you. Here is one more thing I would like to point out: When someone finally called from ICICI bank on July 05, it was around 10:00 PM, US time. I had already gone to bed. My wife, who took the call, only knew that the transaction finally went thru. She did not know of all the hassles I had to endure in the meantime. The point I wish to make is that when your international help desk calls back, should they not know that 10:00 pm is not the most opportune time to call? Should they not know who they are calling, in what continent, at what time? Allow me to tell you one more horror story, from January of this year: I had to apply, on paper, to get an e-Transfer URN by filling out an application form and mailing it to Mumbai. It could not be performed thru the web. I did mail itr by registered air mail, including the required ICICI Bank Internet Banking ID number. And after two or three weeks, I received an e-mail, informing me that they received my application but could not process is because it lacked some number or other and that I should call the helpline. At that point I just gave up on eTransfer services, knowing the usefulness of the help desk folks. But guess what, while I was pulling my hair out trying to send money via Money2India this time, like I did before, because I could not eTransfer, and could not log in, after one of a number of various attempts, I received an URN Number, one that they told me earlier in the year that could not be processed! So much for PROCESS ! This is nothing personal. I hope YOU can help make the much touted ICICI bank's EASE of TRANSACTION actually happen. On Jul 7, 2011, at 5:46 AM, NRI Service wrote: Dear Mr. Mahanta, We value your relationship with ICICI Bank and regret the inconvenience caused to you. We are deeply concerned with the issues raised by you in your e-mail. We regret that our service couldn't live up to your expectations. We appreciate your feed back. We are constantly trying to improve our services and any comments / feedback will be most welcome to help us serve better. Do keep writing to us with your suggestions and feedback. This enables us to work towards, improving our services. It is our constant endeavor to modify our processes based on your suggestions. Sincerely, - Customer Service Manager ICICI Bank Limited CONFIDENTIALITY INFORMATION AND DISCLAIMER: This e-mail message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. It should not be accessed by anyone who is not the original intended recipient. If you have erroneously received this message, please delete it immediately and notify the sender. You will appreciate that e-mail
[Assam] Searching for Something Good to Say About India - NYT, June 29th
Any takers? ___ http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/30/world/asia/30iht-letter30.html?pagewanted=2sq=Indiast=csescp=4 Searching for Something Good to Say About India By MANU JOSEPH NEW DELHI -- It is a question that journalists in India are often asked without affection. “Don’t you have anything good to say?” A positive story, a happy story? The rebuke, when it is an e-mail or an online comment in response to an unflattering article about India, is sometimes accompanied by abuses or a general description of the journalist’s mother. And it is particularly passionate when it comes from the expatriate Indian whose expletives are more contemporary. Nobody loves India like the Indian who does not live here anymore. When they were in India, they just had to emerge from their house, go onto the road, and the whole nation would assemble itself into an unambiguous pyramid of social hierarchy with them somewhere at the top. Respect came with the lottery of birth. But in the First World, it is not so easy. This, and the natural love for home, make the expatriate so patriotic that he or she finds it hard to tolerate the often embarrassing portrayal of the nation, especially in the news media outside the country. Among the nonresident Indians, and also the Indians who live here, there is a common view that what the Western news media want to tell their readers about India is stories that involve cows, poverty, honor killings and other exotic, depressing or weird things. But is it possible to tell a happy Indian story, an honest, complete story, that would fill Indians with pride? Some Indian newspapers have consciously tried to make Indians feel good about themselves. So there are frequent stories about India as an emerging superpower, and India as a cultural force whose curry and music apparently have mesmerized the world, and about how alpha-male Indian companies are taking over foreign corporations. There are commercial rewards for carrying such good news. About three years ago, the shrewd promoter of an Indian publication, a deep philosopher of sorts, explained this when he walked into an editorial meeting and smiled with sympathy at the journalists. “I know what you want,” he said, “You journalists want to bite. You want to write depressing stories. But you know what the advertiser wants. The advertiser wants to advertise on a happy page. Write about good things, happy things.” He then said that if Indian journalists were really desperate “to be negative,” they were free to criticize foreigners. “Attack Greece or something.” It is not as if Indians have not had good reasons to puff their chests in recent times. But, sometimes what makes a country proud is actually a poignant indicator of how far behind it lags. For instance, when a country’s tennis doubles players are national celebrities, as they are in India, you know that there is something wrong with its general sport talent. India did win the cricket World Cup, though, this year, probably the happiest Indian story since 1983, when it last won the Cup. Indians would argue that there are happy stories beyond cricket. For instance, the figure “8 percent” has its own triumphant character in India. It is probably the single most important source of joyous Indian stories. It is the approximate rate at which the Indian economy is growing and expected to grow. But is it an achievement? Writing last year in The New Yorker, Steve Coll described a country whose number of poor people had fallen by almost half between 1999 and 2008, from 30 percent of the population to about 17 percent. “This extraordinary change, a result of rapid economic growth and remittances,” he wrote, “is not often discussed on American cable-news outlets.” He then went on to say that in 2005, the nation had attained an economic growth of “8 percent annually, and the economy has continued to expand, if more slowly, even since 2008.” It would be reasonable for Indians to think that Mr. Coll was talking about them, but he was describing Pakistan. That Pakistan shares the same economic pattern as India points to a truth Indians may not want to easily accept: that the economic progress of India, as in most of the third world, is chiefly the consequence of the wealth of affluent countries’ successfully seeking markets that are so poor that they have the space to expand. So is 8 percent as happy a story as it made out to be? It would be parsimonious not to grant India credit for making crucial policy decisions, which have resulted in a new, prosperous middle class. But the happy story of its economic growth is never complete without the grim stories of major scams, a dangerously widening gap between rich and poor and the displacement of small farmers, who are rising in revolt in several parts of the country. India’s status as a software giant has long been a happy story. But it is an exaggeration. India is a not a software giant. In your computer, there is probably not a
Re: [Assam] Searching for Something Good to Say About India - NYT, June 29th
Hi C'da, I really like Joseph's writing style, and can actually agree with a lot he says. On some things, I am conflicted: 'Nobody loves India like the Indian who does not live here anymore.' Actually the opposite is also true Nobody hates India in some cases. But what Joseph and others miss is that there are some people (NRI/NRAs) who really do emotionally, and sincerely invest interests in India (or Assam). I believe that there is such a section. I may actually completely disagree with their views, but do admire their sincerity. I do agree with the basic problems with many Indians. They do not want to see the problems, and many think India has arrived. But that is not a national indictment. There is that resentment and push back, when NRIs point it out. Maybe it is a natural reaction. There is hubris, where none need exist. Corruption and scandals are too everyday, to galvanize the country into action. About software etc - I don't think the world measures expertise by the number of licenses held in India. But most people know that a lot of development is done in India he makes it sound like it's just call centers manned by Indians with poor accents. His comparison of India to Pakistan is really laughable. Pakistan is a country that is barely trying to remain as one. Its a country in turmoil at best. I like Pankaj Mishra's writings. Here is an interview with Mishra (2007) -- pretty good. http://www.believermag.com/issues/200703/?read=interview_mishra --Ram On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: OK, I will take the bait Ram :-). So what do YOU think of it? Is Manu Joseph trying to stir up trouble, or is he just another one of those India bashers, or perhaps a western-apologist in the style of , as many of us say here seem to think in this forum, Pankaj Mishra? BTW, I read Manu Joseph's Serious Men last year. One of the best books by an Indian English language writer, about contemporary India. He is an astute, empathic observer of the Indian condition and merciless with his prose. One could however easily miss the satire and the biting commentary in the fiction he weaves. It is a take-no-prisoners expose' of the myths of a modern India so many like to wave around. But it is not a hard or depressing read. It is laced with intelligent comedy that I thoroughly enjoyed, even though at times his brutal treatment of seemingly ordinary people's foibles and vanities were quite unnecessary. c-da On Jul 6, 2011, at 12:34 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Any takers? ___ http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/30/world/asia/30iht-letter30.html?pagewanted=2sq=Indiast=csescp=4 Searching for Something Good to Say About India By MANU JOSEPH NEW DELHI -- It is a question that journalists in India are often asked without affection. “Don’t you have anything good to say?” A positive story, a happy story? The rebuke, when it is an e-mail or an online comment in response to an unflattering article about India, is sometimes accompanied by abuses or a general description of the journalist’s mother. And it is particularly passionate when it comes from the expatriate Indian whose expletives are more contemporary. Nobody loves India like the Indian who does not live here anymore. When they were in India, they just had to emerge from their house, go onto the road, and the whole nation would assemble itself into an unambiguous pyramid of social hierarchy with them somewhere at the top. Respect came with the lottery of birth. But in the First World, it is not so easy. This, and the natural love for home, make the expatriate so patriotic that he or she finds it hard to tolerate the often embarrassing portrayal of the nation, especially in the news media outside the country. Among the nonresident Indians, and also the Indians who live here, there is a common view that what the Western news media want to tell their readers about India is stories that involve cows, poverty, honor killings and other exotic, depressing or weird things. But is it possible to tell a happy Indian story, an honest, complete story, that would fill Indians with pride? Some Indian newspapers have consciously tried to make Indians feel good about themselves. So there are frequent stories about India as an emerging superpower, and India as a cultural force whose curry and music apparently have mesmerized the world, and about how alpha-male Indian companies are taking over foreign corporations. There are commercial rewards for carrying such good news. About three years ago, the shrewd promoter of an Indian publication, a deep philosopher of sorts, explained this when he walked into an editorial meeting and smiled with sympathy at the journalists. “I know what you want,” he said, “You journalists want to bite. You want to write depressing stories. But you know what
Re: [Assam] India on the move
Thanks Wahid da for forwarding this interesting piece. Damn, what a ride that was! India is changing, and changing fast Yes, she is changing. This poor rickshawala's case seems to throw 2 things at us. On the one hand, one can argue that even the poorest sections of Indian society can actually dream of a high quality education in some of India's top universities, on the other hand, it is sad, that many of them, like this rickshawala has to be really work against all odds to get into an IIT. I likehis assumption - that MBAs don't work. Maybe, there's some truth to it. --Ram On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Wahid Saleh - Indiawijzer w.sa...@indiawijzer.nl wrote: One of my friends sent me the following and I wanted to share with you. Quote: There were two rickshaw-walas vying for our business when we wanted to go to Sankat-Mochan temple in Benaras. I agreed to go with the one who was about 20, seemed like a regular young rickshaw-wala, but I found something interesting about this fellow in his eyes. I was not proved wrong. He wanted Rs 50, we said Rs 30. We settled for 40. Here are the highlights of the conversation that ensued while he rode the rickshaw: aap kahan se aaye hain Delhi bijness ya kaam karte hain? naukri karte hain kismein internet mein humara bhi kuch wahin kaam lagwa do I just chuckled main try kar raha hoon engineering padhne kee. achchi naukri lag jaayegi tab achcha? I asked a little interested haan, delhi mein Guru Gobind Singh Indraprashta University mein engineering ke liye apply kara hai. achchi hai woh university haan, achchi hai, I agreed. haan, kal hee maine JEE bhi diya JEE matlab, IIT ka? haan, Joint Entrance Examination he pronounced it perfectly just to make it clear to me what JEE stood for. mushkil hota hai exam haan, 2 saal toh log padhte hee hain uske liye, asaan nahin hai I carried on the conversation Delhi mein Akaash coaching institute hain na? haan, hai aapne kya padhai kari? main engineer hoon, aur phir mba bhi kiya kahan se engineer? IIT delhi se He swung back, surprised, a little delighted, and smiled. Ok, aapke liye Rs 30 Swati and I laughed Swati asked padhai kab karte they IIT ke liye bas, rickshaw chalaane ke baad raat mein. Then he added kismein engineering kari aapne? Chemical toh aapki chemistry toh badi strong hogi nahin, aisa nahin hai He continued yeh bataiyejab Mendeleev ne Periodic Table banaya tha tab kitne elements they usmein? Now it was my turn to get surprised. He was quizzing me. I said shayad 70-80 no, 63 he said sharply. kaunse element kee electronegativity highest hai? Swati was laughing, and I didnt try too hard and said pata nahin Flourine, he said confidently. Without a break he asked,kaunse element kee electron affinity highest hoti hai? Now I was laughing too and said nahin pata Chlorine. toh aapka kaunsa subject strong tha? clearly having proven that my chemistry wasnt a strong point Physics, I said achha, Newton's second law of motion kya hai I knew this one I thought, F=ma I said Physics is not about formula, it is understanding concept! he reprimanded me in near perfect english. Tell me in statement I was shocked. Swati continued to laugh. I said ok, Newtons second law, erwas 'was' nahin, 'is'!Second law abhi bhi hai! he snapped at my use of 'was' Surely, my physics wasnt impressing him either. yaad nahin, I said Force on an object is directly proportional to the mass of the object and the acceleration of the object, he said it in near perfect english. aapne mtech nahin kiya? nahin, mba kiya mba waale toh sirf paisa kamana chahte hain, kaam nahin karte nahin, aisa nahin hai, paisa kamaane ke liye kaam karna padta hai He said arrey, rehene do or some words to that effect. He didnt think too highly of me apparently anymore. In a minute we reached our destination. We got off and I told him that he must and should definitely study more, and that I think he is sharp as hell. He took only Rs 30, smiled and began to leave. I got my camera out and said Raju, ek photo leta hoon tumhari. He waved me off, dismissed the idea and rode off before I could say anything moreleaving me feeling high and dry like a spurned lover. Damn, what a ride that was! India is changing, and changing fast. -- Do not value the THINGS you have in your life.. But value WHO you have in your life! ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] A Moving Video
Thanks for forwarding, C'da - it's excellent! --Ram On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=2HiUMlOz4UQvq=large ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Fincke on yet another space mission ( The Assam Tribune , 30.04.2011).
Buljit The launch has been postponed yet again. http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/04/29/shuttle.endeavor/index.html Ram da On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Buljit Buragohain buluas...@yahoo.co.inwrote: Fincke on yet another space mission Staff Reporter GUWAHATI, April 29 – U S astronaut Colonel E. Michael Fincke, popularly known as Mike Fincke, the NASA Astronaut, is on his third sojourn to outer space. The space shuttle Endeavour is scheduled to be launched to the International Space Station (ISS) from the Kennedy Space Center in Florida this night. The mission named STS-134 will have a six-member crew and Mike is the Mission Specialist No.1 in this mission, said a press release of the Friends of Assam and Seven Sisters (FASS) here today.Mike is a household name in Assam and happens to be a son-in-law of the State by virtue of his marriage to an Assamese-origin girl Renita Saikia, who is also a NASA engineer. Colonel Finke will sit up on the flight deck in the cockpit and help the launching and landing of this complex aerospace vehicle, the space shuttle. He along with two other astronauts will perform four spacewalks. During the 14-day mission, Endeavour and its crew will deliver the Express Logistics Carrier-3, Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer-2 (AMS), a high-pressure gas tank and additional spare parts for the Dextre robotic helper to the ISS. It’s a very important mission in terms of science. The AMS is going to be installed on the outside of the International Space Station and collect some amazing data and detect some things that will help to understand the universe a lot better. Mike had been to the outer space twice before – in 2004 and 2008-9 and stayed there for a year. Mike Fincke, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) alumni, had come to the NE region of India in September 2009 and interacted with the students in Guwahati and Shillong, which was organized by the FASS. It had also organized a direct talk between Mike Fincke, while he was in Outer Space, and the students of four educational institutions of Dibrugarh, Guwahati, Imphal and Shillong in 2008-09.The International Space Station (ISS) is the largest and most complex international scientific project in history. The ISS is a research facility in outer space and orbits at an altitude of approximately 350 km above the surface of the Earth, and travels at an average speed of 27,700 kilometres per hour, completing 15.7 orbits per day, making roughly one orbit every 90 minutes and it passes over 90 per cent of the world’s surface. The ISS’s length and width is about the size of a football field. The International Space Station marked its 10th anniversary of continuous human occupation on November 2, 2010. The ISS can accommodate six persons and it is larger than a conventional five-bedroom house, and has two bathrooms, a gymnasium and research laboratories. FASS wishes Mike Fincke a very successful voyage during his third visit to the ISS. It will invite him again to Assam to interact with the students and teachers of the North East. Mike Fincke’s wife Renita and their three children Chandra, Tarali and Surya and his in-laws Rupesh and Probha Saikia have already arrived in Florida for the launching of the Space Shuttle, said the FASS in its press release signed by its secretary general Bidyananda Barkakoty. ( The Assam Tribune , 30.04.2011) ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Indian work visas for US citizens equal H-1Bs, L1s - Express India
http://www.samachar.com/Indian-work-visas-for-US-citizens-equal-H1Bs-L1s-le2mJKhhjcc.html This is interesting to say the least. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] A controversy-raking 2004 documentary on Sai Baba
JS, There is one magical trick that I think deserves a lot of respect. That is the ability of politicians to make hundreds of crores of rupees disappear right in front of the people. They keep performing this trick very frequently, and the darn public is still unaware as to how, and where all the money is gone. :-) :-) --Ram da On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 8:43 AM, Jyotirmoy Sharma jyotirmoy.sha...@gmail.com wrote: Those who believe him will swear by him, those who don't will unfortunately humiliate him( even after death ). I am not a Sai follower but I do respect for the good deeds he has done for humanity. It's a shame that the allegations against him were never fully allowed to be investigated because of his clout and association with powerful people. It's the same with all the corruption scandals going on in India( or Assam ). As for his magical tricks, India has produced several magicians but none are revered. JS ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] St. Louis storm
Enjoy your trip C'da... send us some photos On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 7:48 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: We are fine Ram. Thanks for checking. We were right in the middle of the storm's projected trajectory, but it spared us. We were affected however. We were due to fly out Sat.day AM for a short vacation. We were re-scheduled to fly via Peoria, Illinois three hours of driving away. It was a long, long day yesterday. But we are at our destination, relaxing in the lovely warmth of sunrise on the Bay of Mexico. We still don't know about returning on WEdnesday, whether it will be to St.L or to Peoria. c-da On Apr 23, 2011, at 10:07 AM, Ram Dhar wrote: Chandanda, Hope all is well with you guys . Just watched it in CNN that they have closed the Int'l airport indefinitely after a major storm hit St. Louis. thanks RD ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] The Rorschach Effect in Indian Politics
If I may butt in. The other day, Mukul da forwarded a NYT column about Hindus polluting the rivers in Queens. That column made some very interesting reading, and that these Hindus have started polluting the waters by using it for religious rites, and even even throwing coconut shells, and other garbage in the river. It then struck me here in the US the 'governance' is what many Indians would aspire for, and yet SOME of these Hindus break all rules and 'muddy the waters', so to speak. So whom do we fault - the imported Hindus or the governance in Queens? In India's case, corruption requires at least two parties: bad governance on one side, but you also need a easily swayed population that seems to have willingly taken part all these decades. It is a well-known fact, that the most sought-after jobs are sales tax inspectors, supply inspectors, DTO, ministers, forest rangers, contractors... a long list of jobs with low salaries, but high monetary rewards. The question is why are these jobs sought by huge sections of the population instead of running away from such positions? Uttam brings out a good point. basically that when temptations are so high, and those that don't join in tend to lose a whole lot. That is true in some cases, but in others, we see a population that is both eager and willing to join in. People are not being dragged kicking screaming into becoming supply inspectors or sales tax crooks - people actively seeking such positions because they really want rake in the money. There are willing business people who are willing to bribe these equally willing sales tax/supply inspectors. This is just an example, but everywhere you look, you can find it. Everything is NOT lost if one doesn't get that sales tax inspector job, and no one coerced that inspector to take or initiate the bribe. In the end, it does takes two to tango while the system does certainly needs improvement, I am not sure if we can prescribe to replace it. How will that be done with what? And who will be in charge of the new system --- the same people? And what does one do with sections of the population that loves and thrives on corruption? On a side note: I too think Ravan has been given a bad rap. :-) --Ram On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Well said Uttam. On Apr 23, 2011, at 3:59 AM, uttam borthakur wrote: Dear all, The Rorschach test is obviously meant for finding out the psychological make-up and therefore, the outlook of the person. And this surely has been reflected in our discussion here. I am fond of Ravana. In fact, my name finds a place in a publication by Mamoni Raisom Goswami where I had to co-translate Navakanta Baruah's RAVAN as the etrnal lover. Needless to say, I am pretty embarrassed with the translation as the very first rush print sent to examine the integrity of meaning got printed instead of the last refinded one sent for print :-). That's besides the point. Despite dissemination of education, the presence of all pervading corruption in India, proves one point for sure: system needs to be replaced. Even the most pure either gets allured or gets crushed in this system (now crony capitalism, which implies that head is rotten, and therefore the remaining parts, like the proverbial rotting fish). So, it would be a fallacy to think that Indian citizens enlightened by education per se would attain divinity and therefore the existing system would be adequate. It has not been proven so far. ( There are good people and that is why even this rotten thing is still running; perhaps it is at the end of its elasticity as evinced by recent happenings). Why, even the noble Dr. Faustus could not resist Mephistopheles, not to speak of numerous Hindu gods and sages falling preys to avarice! So, singing paens to the extant system and hoping for people to become god would be a very tall order. Too tall. That's why, Anna Hazare, however good or bad a person he is, shall not possibly succeed with his present brand of solutions. Having said that, the present awkening has the wherewithal to unleash the forces that may bring about the desired changes. No time table can be set for that! Uttam Kumar Borthakur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] St. Louis storm
Yes, we too were thinking about it yesterday ---the tornado. Looks like C'da is fine...see his email, and I think they are celebrating Bihu this weekend. On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Ram Dhar ramd...@hotmail.com wrote: Chandanda, Hope all is well with you guys . Just watched it in CNN that they have closed the Int'l airport indefinitely after a major storm hit St. Louis. thanks RD ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Will the Jan Lokpal Bill Work?
C'da, Happy Rongali Bihu. I don't think it will. It may have some value temporarily. Something a newly independent state may employ to get its bearing, like I proposed for an independent Assam Reading thru the posts, first, I think you make some excellent points regarding the system itself - ie. how BA - fail ministers are in charge of departments and are ill managed. And that there very poor choices in the hands of the electorate. In many ways, the system, you so often rightly complain, is at fault, and many will totally agree with you on that. There would need to be reforms, implementation and a follow through (accountability) The problem probably lies in your solution. An independent Assam is more of an emotional issue for some, but definitely impractical. No one in the last 30 years has been able to prove or convince that an independent Assam will somehow be better than what we have now.. Its the proverbial 'out of the frying pan, into the fire'. Why would a sane population in Assam agree to let their fate be decided by some corrupt, violent, gun-totting, insurgents. The people may not like the present setup, but at least they have a chance to turn things around with Hazare's or other similar movements. The two articles you forwarded, have plenty of problems, have to write again on that. But thanks for forwarding - gives one an idea what some people can come up to label as 'corruption' (from the article). --Ram On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Prashant Bhushan is a credible person on these issues. But will the 'Jan Lokpal ' thing work? What do you think? I don't think it will. It may have some value temporarily. Something a newly independent state may employ to get its bearing, like I proposed for an independent Assam. But until such time India reforms and fixes its broken, dysfunctional system, it will be about as effective as all the other, much hyped schemes, programs, laws acronyms and whatchmacallits -- like for example Panchayats, Fast Track Courts, RTI, CVC and many others. Why ? For the simple reason that the dysfunctional system will continue to keep producing the corrupt and the inept. How will the JL, which is designed only to look after the CENTER - won't have anything to do with the states, keep the floodgates closed and for how long? That raises another assamnet specific question to this 'odhom': I was under the impression that it is Assam, and a few other states are the truly corrupt entities, not the Center, not the 'prospering' states and so forth. Where is the disconnect? The notion is akin to treating Typhoid with fever control medication. What is amazing is that no one NO ONE, is talking about fixing the broken system. Why? Any thoughts? Also look up http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?271406. Some very fgood points raised in this. cm http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?271389 OPINION Removing Misconceptions Addressing some of the issues and concerns raised by a number of commentators on the provisions in the draft of Jan Lokpal Bill PRASHANT BHUSHAN A number of commentators have raised issues about the provisions in the draft of Jan Lokpal Bill, whether it will be effective instrument for checking corruption and about the manner in which pressure was brought to bear on the government through Shri Anna Hazare’s fast. It is therefore, important to understand the provisions of the bill and how it seeks to set up an effective institution to deal with corruption. Corruption in India has grown to alarming proportions; because of policies which have created enormous incentives for its proliferation, coupled with the lack of an effective institution which can investigate and prosecute the corrupt. Under the garb of liberalization and privatisation, we have adopted policies by which natural resources and public assets (such as mineral resources, oil gas, land, spectrum, etc) have been allowed to be privatised without any transparency or public auction. Hundreds of MoUs have been signed overnight, by governments with private corporations, leasing out large tracts of land rich in mineral resources, forests and water, which allow those corporations to take away and sell these resources by paying the government a royalty which is usually less than 1% of the value of resources. The Karnataka Lokayukta Justice Santosh Hegde, has pointed out in a report on mining in Karnataka, that the profit margins in such ventures, is often more than 90%; thus leaving a huge scope for bribe giving and creating huge incentives for corruption. The same thing happened when Mr A. Raja gave away spectrum without a public auction to companies at less than 10% of its market price. Private monopolies in water/electricity distribution, airports, etc; have been allowed to be created where huge and unconscionable profits can be made by corrupting the regulator and allowing the private
Re: [Assam] Will the Jan Lokpal Bill Work?
C'da, Our Bihu weekend went off well. Perhaps you know of a way to effect the reforms within the sacrosanct Indian Constitution and operating within the system, like so many well-meaning folks always declare. I don't think there is a magic wand that will be a cure all But the first thing, of course, is to define the ambit - in this case the Constitution. Unless, people are willing to work within well-defined boundaries, nothing really will get done. As far as reforms are concerned, it has to start at the top, and flow down. It all looks hopeless, but there are enough Indians who can make changes that will stick. If India is not able or unwilling to do this, it faces a sure and definite downhill path. As far as Assam is concerned, it can reform along with the rest of the states. But it can also have it's own reforms. But for MANY, independence is not a trophy but a tool--to reform Assam governance Why would you think Assam is any different or has an edge over other states when it comes to combating corruption or roll out reforms as an independent state? No one is stopping Assam in her efforts to reform. Even within a corrupt Indian system, individual states can do outshine others. Why can't Assam be one of those states? The state has the full authority control in implementing and enacting state laws without the Center's blessing. The reason probably is there is no will to do so. After being wracked for the past 30 years with violent insurgency outfits running lose, the people, it seems are willing to take anything that is not insurgency the state's politicians babus are fully aware of this and take full advantage of this. But I am hopeful. It looks like the state's insurgency is on the wane, and slowly, but surely, people are trying to hold politicians to their election promises. People like Akhil Gogoi and Azare are galvanizing people into demanding accountability. --Ram On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Ram: Hope you all had a good Bihu weekend. We will have our nominal Bihu two weeks from now :-). All our young kharkhowa friends have moved out of St. Louis , robbing us of our Bihu energy that produced a lot of fun last year including an authentic 'meji'. There would need to be reforms, implementation and a follow through (accountability) *** I have been hearing of that demand for at least a quarter of a century. But what have you gotten so far? The problem probably lies in your solution. An independent Assam is more of an emotional issue for some, That may very well be. But for MANY, independence is not a trophy but a tool--to reform Assam governance. Why so you will ask: Because the operating Indian system is the obstacle for reforms. Perhaps you know of a way to effect the reforms within the sacrosanct Indian Constitution and operating within the system, like so many well-meaning folks always declare. Why not tell us how that might happen? I am NOT dedicated to independence. I would take anything that would help Assam dig out from the mire that is its governance, created and operated in the image and aegis of Dilli. What is needed , in tech talk, a CLEAN-INSTALL. The system is so terribly broken, only a complete overhaul will work. It is far too gone to be rescued by yet another scheme like Jan Lok Pal however well-intentioned. *** Corruption is a problem, but only ONE of a myriad of problems. And when we speak of corruption it behooves us to examine WHERE corruption gets its sustenance: Corruption is a result of laws, regulations. They are what empowers those with their fingers on power. Try eradicating the corruption empowering laws and regulations working within the Indian system . How do you propose to begin and where? c-da On Apr 18, 2011, at 9:56 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, Happy Rongali Bihu. I don't think it will. It may have some value temporarily. Something a newly independent state may employ to get its bearing, like I proposed for an independent Assam Reading thru the posts, first, I think you make some excellent points regarding the system itself - ie. how BA - fail ministers are in charge of departments and are ill managed. And that there very poor choices in the hands of the electorate. In many ways, the system, you so often rightly complain, is at fault, and many will totally agree with you on that. There would need to be reforms, implementation and a follow through (accountability) The problem probably lies in your solution. An independent Assam is more of an emotional issue for some, but definitely impractical. No one in the last 30 years has been able to prove or convince that an independent Assam will somehow be better than what we have now.. Its the proverbial 'out of the frying pan, into the fire'. Why would a sane population in Assam agree to let their fate be decided by some corrupt
[Assam] Modi: The Man with a Vision - Tavleen Singh (The Sentinel)
*Among the stars who glittered at the India Today conclave, Narendra Modi shone brighter than all the others. Even those who came prepared to hate him left with a very different view* Some of our ardent Assamnetters, could have attended the Modi bhai address :-) --Ram Modi: The Man with a Vision *Among the stars who glittered at the India Today conclave, Narendra Modi shone brighter than all the others. Even those who came prepared to hate him left with a very different view* Even before Narendra Modi arrived for his session at last week’s India Today conclave there was a buzz of excitement about his presence. Opinion in this gathering of liberal opinion makers was heavily weighted against him. The journalists were all implacably hostile and spent their time preparing questions on the violence that swept through Gujarat in February 2002 and that continues to haunt him wherever he goes. The drawing room intellectuals in the audience were prepared to have a more open mind on the Chief Minister of India’s fastest growing State but admitted that there was something about him that continued to give them the creeps. All in all there was a hornets’ nest awaiting him and this is why the speed with which he disarmed the stings was so impressive. The Aaj Tak anchor, Ajay Kumar, who introduced him made no effort to conceal his hostility and although he admitted that Gujarat was making remarkable economic gains under Modi, tempered this praise by adding that the Chief Minister was a ‘cunning and clever’ politician. The implication was clear: no matter how impressive this man may seem remember what he did after Godhra. Modi ignored the implication and began his address with this question. ‘Can our country become one of the world’s super powers?’ He answered the question himself by saying that his experience in Gujarat had led him to believe that India could indeed become one of the world’s most powerful countries if it set itself some clear goals. He said the ‘Gujarat model’ was proof that the cynical, defeated mood that prevailed in the country about our political leaders and governance in general was wrong. “In Gujarat we have shown that those same government offices, those same government officials and those same old laws and regulations can be used to bring about development and change.” By the time he got to pointing out that the 21st century was widely acknowledged as Asia’s century and that the race was between China and India he had everybody’s attention. He then listed what he considered India’s three advantages over China. Democracy, youth power and a judicial system that worked. It was on these three strengths, he said, that India needed to build. In the rest of his speech he explained what he had done in Gujarat to bring about the changes that even his worst critics admit have happened. His secret, he admitted, was that he had emulated another famous Gujarati politician, Mahatma Gandhi, by copying how the Mahatma had enlisted the masses into the movement for India’s freedom. There had been other leaders before him who had made their contribution to the cause of freedom but they had failed to build a mass movement. In Gujarat all the changes that have happened since Modi became Chief Minister ten years ago were made possible because he made ordinary people participate in them through campaigns to gain popular support. He called it his jan andalon method which he said he used for every change from rural healthcare to agricultural productivity. When he finished speaking the drawing room liberals in my vicinity whispered among themselves about how wonderful it would be if Modi became Prime Minister. The questions were, as usual, about the violence he had presided over but they failed to deflect from the general sense of hope and optimism that Modi had succeeded in creating. Everyone I spoke to agreed that what India needed was a leader like Modi. What made this opinion even more pervasive was that Modi made such a vibrant contrast to the lacklustre performance we had witnessed earlier from the Prime Minister. He addressed the first session of the conclave and said nothing new. In the monotone we have become accustomed to he gave us a catalogue of his government’s ‘achievements’. The Right to Information law, the Right to Education act, the rural employment guarantee scheme, the rural health mission…the list was long. When questioned about failures to deal with corruption, child malnutrition and black money he gave a series of bland answers and banalities. In a conclave glittering with stars the two that shone brightest on the first day of the conclave were Shahrukh Khan, for obvious reasons, and Modi for making people believe in the possibility that there could one day be real change in politics and governance in India. If we had taken a referendum that morning I am prepared to bet that more than 80 per cent of the audience would have voted in favour of a man they usually love to loathe. Now for
[Assam] Buffett Draws Fervent Fans in India With His Folksy Advice - New York Times
Two statements stood out. One from a blog, and the other from the column. Both statements describe to a very large extent, India's outlook, and problems. *Indians are attracted to Mr. Buffett as he is wealthy. Pure and simple. Indians are of course good at doling out good advice and not really listening to them. They won't mind Mr. Buffett giving advice about giving up wealth. It' just that Indians are not about to give up their wealth any time soon. http://explainingindia.blogspot.com/ - Sachi Mohanty, a blogger * And this from the column: *Mr. Buffett’s newfound interest in India is at odds with much of the rest of the world. Foreign direct investment in the country dropped by more than 31 percent in 2010, even as it rose in other emerging markets. Headline-grabbing corruption scandals and the huge Indian tax bill of Vodafonehttp://dealbook.on.nytimes.com/public/overview?symbol=VODinline=nyt-org, the British telecommunications company, are scaring investors, analysts say. Still, companies from BMWhttp://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/bayerische_motoren_werke_ag/index.html?inline=nyt-orgto Levi Strauss continue to expand in India, hoping to sell products to the country’s growing number of consumers with disposable income. * --Ram __ March 25, 2011, 5:12 pm Buffett Draws Fervent Fans in India With His Folksy Advice By HEATHER TIMMONShttp://dealbook.nytimes.com/author/heather-timmons/ Pankaj Nangia/Bloomberg NewsWarren E. Buffett, right, drew the rapt attention of his audience in New Delhi on Friday. With him was Ajit Jain, the Indian-born head of Berkshire Hathaway’s reinsurance business. NEW DELHI — The billionaire investor Warren E. Buffetthttp://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/warren_e_buffett/index.html?inline=nyt-percapped off a weeklong visit to India by doing one of the things he does best, after investing — doling out folksy sayings and sensible advice to an appreciative crowd. While Mr. Buffett’s first trip to India comes years, or even decades, after many Western investors and businesses have put down roots in this country, the delay does not seem to have dampened his reception. In recent days, he traveled from the technology hub of Bangalore to New Delhi, meeting with students, politicians, businesspeople and India’s wealthy, and seeming to win new admirers everywhere he went. “The greatest man on the planet,” one audience member yelled Friday, as Mr. Buffett moved to the front of a ballroom in a five-star hotel here. Mr. Buffett has “completely charmed all who thronged to get a word of wisdom,” The Times of India wrote earlier in the weekhttp://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-03-24/india-business/29182749_1_warren-buffett-sari-alpana . Mr. Buffett, the chairman of Berkshire Hathawayhttp://dealbook.on.nytimes.com/public/overview?symbol=BRK.Ainline=nyt-org, spent Friday night with hundreds of new insurance customers at a town hall-style meeting, where he gave advice on topics as diverse as government bonds (don’t buy them now), parenting (“You start out as your child’s hero and you don’t get a second chance”) and social networking stocks like Facebook (“I wouldn’t buy them, but I wouldn’t short them”). India is among his top four or five investment destinations, he said Friday, and he hinted he was scouting for candidates. “I’ve been dropping my phone number around as I cover the city,” Mr. Buffett said. “I hope someone rings me Monday morning with good news.” Still, he added, “My advice to anyone with a good business is to keep it.” Mr. Buffett’s newfound interest in India is at odds with much of the rest of the world. Foreign direct investment in the country dropped by more than 31 percent in 2010, even as it rose in other emerging markets. Headline-grabbing corruption scandals and the huge Indian tax bill of Vodafonehttp://dealbook.on.nytimes.com/public/overview?symbol=VODinline=nyt-org, the British telecommunications company, are scaring investors, analysts say. Still, companies from BMWhttp://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/bayerische_motoren_werke_ag/index.html?inline=nyt-orgto Levi Strauss continue to expand in India, hoping to sell products to the country’s growing number of consumers with disposable income. Mr. Buffett’s company recently entered India’s insurance market, albeit tentatively, as an insurance agent. Berkshire Hathaway started selling car insurancehttp://topics.nytimes.com/your-money/insurance/auto-insurance/index.html?inline=nyt-classifierpolicies online in India in a partnership with Bajaj Allianz, the Indian insurance company. Regulations in this country prevent foreign insurers from selling their own policies unless they have become a minority partner in an agreement with a local company. But there are no limits on being an agent. “We’ve been looking at the India space for a long time,” Ajit Jain, the Indian-born head of Berkshire Hathaway’s reinsurance business,
Re: [Assam] Gandhi--Noble Soul
Thank you for forwarding this excellent piece, Mukul da. The tragic element is that he was ultimately forced, like Lear, to see the limits of his ambition to remake his world.” To add, and paint with a rather broad brush, few Indians pay serious thought to any Gandhian ideal. Almost all of it is just plain lip service. --Ram On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:39 PM, mc mahant mikemah...@hotmail.com wrote: Netters :worth reading through and over http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/books/review/book-review-great-soul-mahatma-gandhi-and-his-struggle-with-india-by-joseph-lelyveld.html?_r=1nl=booksemc=booksupdateema2pagewanted=print ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Off With MODI's head
Excellent Manoj. The idea of teaming up with Gujarat seems quite promising. There are a few factors that hold back Assam (IMHO). 1) Assam has something like 14 MPs. That in itself wouldn't be a problem (as Punjab has 13). Our MPs, regardless of party, are not very vocal. Recent history may be different. There are other states with fewer MPs. 2) Investors are not breaking down doors to get into Assam. Given the bad publicity for the last 2 or 3 decades, no Tata Nano will be risking their money. Now, this is the reality, and it does not matter what the real cause is :-) From Manoj's post, it seems even Modi bhai wants some sort of 'tourism police' to protect Gujarati visitors. In Assam 'business' almost always means trading. It is only recently that one sees some private investment in the education sector. Once, great, vibrant industries like tea plywood, seem to be languishing. 3) Corruption is rampant in the state. Yes, yes, there is corruption in some other states like Karnataka, but I suspect, many of those other states corrupt on one hand and build with the other. In spite of these glaring negatives, I think Assam needs to concentrate on a few main areas, so that it can move forward with development. Power, roadways, flood control. and for C'da's questions: *** SHOULD is good advice. But what IF the advice is either ignored, or unable to be followed? Has no-one given such advice to your leaders before? Or did your leaders never knew how to think big and did not possess all the other wisdoms to make Assam as successful as Modi's paradise? All of Assam's leaders, past and present, and future know exactly what the right thing to do is, and posses all the worldly wisdom. But they also know, that voters will always vote them back to power, even if hey don't do anything. And IF so, how is anything going to change, with the dysfunctional duds in charge ? Quite often, this dysfunctional trait is by choice. Those in charge know exactly how the cards are played, and how to get back to power time and again. While, Modi may also 'knowledgeable' in such qualities, the Gujaratis, he has to get the votes from, will NOT vote him back, unless he performs -- that is the difference. What IS IT that holds Assam back? Or for that matter other non-Gujaratis back? What do the Gujarati's possess and Modi knows, that the rest don't ? The above are some of the reasons. --Ram On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: I am very impressed Manoj, as I always have been :-). Our leaders should learn to think big. *** SHOULD is good advice. But what IF the advice is either ignored, or unable to be followed? Has no-one given such advice to your leaders before? Or did your leaders never knew how to think big and did not possess all the other wisdoms to make Assam as successful as Modi's paradise? And IF so, how is anything going to change, with the dysfunctional duds in charge ? That is what I would like to know. What IS IT that holds Assam back? Or for that matter other non-Gujaratis back? What do the Gujarati's possess and Modi knows, that the rest don't ? I am not being facetious here. Seriously, it is one thing to opine for something, like Dilip did, or you do, but quite another to KNOW where the problem lies that prevents those hopes from being met or fulfilled. c-da On Mar 23, 2011, at 11:29 AM, Manoj Das wrote: I was an attendee at Vibrant Gujarat show at Gandhinagar this January. Modi built two huge convention halls of gigantic proportions. One was almost ready and the other was under construction. Temporary flex print was pasted to look it complete. We could not make out the difference. The place was aptly named 'Mahanta Mandir', and a huge statue of Mahatma stood in between, with his signature 'danda'. A 'dandi kutir', shaped like a salt mound was Modi's 'darbaar'. He met all the delegations there and MoUs were signed in his presence. This year MoUs worth Rs. 30 lakh crores (US$ 672 Bn approx) were signed. We (NEDFi) organised a concurrent Invest NE Show there. When Modi came to know about our presence, he called our CMD. He had to wait, in queue, no doubt. Once his turn came, Modi received him with apology and asked if there was any MoU to be signed. We had none; so Modi immediately changed track and showered praise on NER states like Sikkim which has done marvelously well in the tourism sector. Modi was BJP's i/c of NER during Bajpayee's time. He offered to train 300 policemen from NER at his cost to become tourist police. Idea is, Gujaratis are compulsive travellers, and they need some comfort like that of security, vegetarian food, some guidance in Guajarati language to start moving to unchartered territories. These NER police personnel will be trained in these aspects and once they are back to their respective states, they will be able to receive, escort the Gujarati tourists. Brilliant!
[Assam] Orchids Flowers of Costa Rica
https://picasaweb.google.com/rsarang22/OrchidsFlowersPlantsOfCostaRica?authkey=Gv1sRgCKmixuyqhcHfQw# We just came back from a sojourn in Costa Rica. We had a great experience, hiking, snorkeling, relaxing, and just wading in the waves of the Pacific. We took a whole lot of photographs. Here is one album - just orchids, flowers, and lush forests. --Ram ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Happy Planet Index
It show Costa Rica as 75.1 na d Japan is 82.3 So, how's Costa Rica the happiest and greenest? On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Alpana B. Sarangapani absarangap...@hotmail.com wrote: http://www.happyplanetindex.org/explore/global/life-expectancy.html http://www.greendiary.com/entry/happy-planet-index-shows-costa-rica-as-the-happiest-and-greenest-nation/ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] video - For Indian TV viewers , US Airforce demonstrates capabilities of C-17 plane
Thanks for sharing that, Ram. Great video. --Ram da On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Ram Dhar ramd...@hotmail.com wrote: For Indian TV viewers , US Airforce squadron based in Hawaii demonstrates capabilities of the the giant airlift plane C-17. Indian airforce is in process to get these planes http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/bigger-higher-faster/flying-a-boeing-c-17/191453 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] The Daily Mail: Why are we giving £1bn aid to India? A nation with three times as many billionaires as we have (and its own space programme)
This is an excellent question. IMHO, India should be ashamed to seek foreign aid at all. During the Tsunami, India, and rightly so, politely refused help from other countries... it felt it could handle it. India needs to first get rid of its near total, rampant corruption that exists in the government, the government waste, and unwieldy bureaucracy. With all the scams going on, it will be little wonder if this foreign aid is not siphoned off as soon as it hits Indian shores. If India has any of that backbone left, it should stop taking and depending on foreign aid. As far as billionaires are concerned, Indians can never be Warren Buffets or Bill Gates. Which well-to-Indian has the guts, or the big heart to part with half their income. --Ram On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Rini Kakati rinikak...@hotmail.comwrote: Now British people are moaning, grumbling about sending such huge aid to India for Orissa, Bihar and Madhya Pradesh but not Assam. As India is independent and can stand on their own feet - they reckon. Is it true? May be flood victims of Assam can apply too ! Rini Kakati Why are we giving £1bn aid to India? A nation with three times as many billionaires as we have (and its own space programme) Britain is to give more than £1billion in aid to India over the next four years, even though it has almost three times as many billionaires as we do. Ministers defended handing around £280million a year in taxpayers’ cash to one of the world’s biggest economies. They insist it will re-energise the relationship with the former colony and claim it still needs international aid. However, critics pointed out that India is a nuclear power, has its own space programme and is rich enough to donate money to poor African nations each year. Andrew Mitchell, the International Development Secretary, says Britain will channel its aid to the three poorest states in India. Speaking on Radio 4, he said it was ‘the right place for us to be’. He added: ‘They do have a space programme, but on the other hand there are more poor people in India than in the whole of sub-Saharan Africa and the average income of an Indian citizen is only one third of that of a Chinese person.’ The Coalition has already axed aid to economic powerhouse economies such as Russia and China. But Department for International Development sources claim India is ‘different’. A spokesman said: ‘Our development programme is in transition, but now is not the time to end it completely. ‘We will not be in India forever. But as part of the revitalised British relationship with India, following the Prime Minister’s successful visit last year, our development partnership has an important role to play.’ Despite its immense poverty, India is home to some of the richest people on earth. The wealthiest Indian is Mukesh Ambani, chairman of Reliance Industries and the fourth richest man in the world. But perhaps the best known billionaire in India is Vijay Mallya, the eccentric 55-year-old owner of the United Breweries Group that produces Kingfisher beer and is behind Kingfisher Airlines. He also owns a Formula One team, and one of the world’s biggest private yachts - the 312ft Indian Empress. Sceptics believe much of Britain’s aid is as much about strengthening British trade ties as helping the poor. In his visit last year, David Cameron lobbied hard on behalf of British business. The trip led to a £686million aircraft deal for defence contractor BAE Systems and engine makers Rolls-Royce. Aid to India will be channelled to the states of Orissa, Madhya Pradesh and Bihar, with half the programme going into private-sector schemes. Much of this cash will be given to the Commonwealth Development Corporation, a controversial quango that paid bosses bonuses and lavish expenses. But Labour’s former foreign office minister Gisela Stewart said Mr Mitchell had his priorities ‘all wrong’. She added: ‘We would be better off spending the money on counter-terrorism in Afghanistan or on micro-finance schemes in Bangladesh rather than pouring money into a nuclear power with more billionaires than Britain.’ Website: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357056/Britains-1bn-aid-India-nation-3-times-billionaires-have.html ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Sentinel letter
Nice logical, passionate letter in today's Sentinel. The sad part is that the author of this letter, Mr. Rajkhowa probably doesn't realize that his appeal will most certainly fall on deaf ears. The powers that be their ardent supporters are not really concerned with things like rule of law, fairness, and victims' rights only when they are at the receiving end. Highlights mine. --Ram *No Amnesty Please* A few days back, Leader of the Opposition in the Assam Assembly PK Mahanta told the media that the ULFA cadres coming overground should be granted general amnesty. People have not forgotten the terror created by the surrendered ULFA (SULFA) after they were granted amnesty by the Hiteswar Saikia government. They were also allowed to retain their arms, with the strength of which they opened a syndicate in all the businesses to collect goonda tax. The law-abiding people have had enough of the taste of general amnesty. The members of the present pro-talk ULFA group were arrested by Bangladesh security forces and were handed over to their counterparts in India, and they were till recently in Assam’s jail. All their arsenal and funds collected by way of extortion, kidnapping and killing have remained with the self-styled c-in-c of the terrorist outfit, Paresh Baruah. *Now the pro-talk group has neither shield nor sword with them, and they are under the strict surveillance of the security forces. Their children are also growing up. In such a situation they have no other option but to opt for peace talks. No doubt, this is a good sign, but only time will tell whether the talks will be infructuous or bear fruit.* Like other children, their children also deserve good education and care. They are innocent and should not suffer for the crimes their parents have committed. *The members of the revolutionary-turned-terrorist outfit were so cruel that they did not hesitate to brutally kill women and school-going children, as well as to sever the limbs of people before finally killing them, suspecting them to be police informers. Simply saying sorry and admitting their past crimes as mistakes are not enough. * Irrespective of the outcome of peace talks, no political party, whoever comes to power, should ever think, even in their wildest dreams, of granting general amnesty to the members of the terrorist outfit who have criminal cases pending against them. People cannot simply ignore the agonies of the families of the victims — thousands of men, women and children who lost their lives at the hands of these terrorists. It will also be an insult to the kith and kin of those thousands of families who were the target of the outfit’s bullets. The government should also seriously fight the cases against the criminals in the court of law so that the guilty are suitably punished. *The ULFA leaders should self-introspect and repent for their crimes by languishing in jail; only then will things come to their logical conclusion.* If Binayak Sen can be unfairly sentenced to life imprisonment by a trial court in Chhattisgarh for sedition and having links to Maoists, then why cannot the members of a terrorist outfit be punished, especially since they have killed thousands of innocent people in the name of revolution? Deepak K Rajkhowa, Guwahati-1. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Sentinel letter - a correction
The powers that be their ardent supporters are not really concerned with things like rule of law, fairness, and victims' rights only when they are at the receiving end. Should have read The powers that be their ardent supporters are really concerned with things like rule of law, fairness, and victims' rights only when they are at the receiving end. Sorry about the 'Not' coming in at the wrong time:-) --Ram On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Ram Sarangapani assa...@gmail.com wrote: Nice logical, passionate letter in today's Sentinel. The sad part is that the author of this letter, Mr. Rajkhowa probably doesn't realize that his appeal will most certainly fall on deaf ears. The powers that be their ardent supporters are not really concerned with things like rule of law, fairness, and victims' rights only when they are at the receiving end. Highlights mine. --Ram *No Amnesty Please* A few days back, Leader of the Opposition in the Assam Assembly PK Mahanta told the media that the ULFA cadres coming overground should be granted general amnesty. People have not forgotten the terror created by the surrendered ULFA (SULFA) after they were granted amnesty by the Hiteswar Saikia government. They were also allowed to retain their arms, with the strength of which they opened a syndicate in all the businesses to collect goonda tax. The law-abiding people have had enough of the taste of general amnesty. The members of the present pro-talk ULFA group were arrested by Bangladesh security forces and were handed over to their counterparts in India, and they were till recently in Assam’s jail. All their arsenal and funds collected by way of extortion, kidnapping and killing have remained with the self-styled c-in-c of the terrorist outfit, Paresh Baruah. *Now the pro-talk group has neither shield nor sword with them, and they are under the strict surveillance of the security forces. Their children are also growing up. In such a situation they have no other option but to opt for peace talks. No doubt, this is a good sign, but only time will tell whether the talks will be infructuous or bear fruit.* Like other children, their children also deserve good education and care. They are innocent and should not suffer for the crimes their parents have committed. *The members of the revolutionary-turned-terrorist outfit were so cruel that they did not hesitate to brutally kill women and school-going children, as well as to sever the limbs of people before finally killing them, suspecting them to be police informers. Simply saying sorry and admitting their past crimes as mistakes are not enough. * Irrespective of the outcome of peace talks, no political party, whoever comes to power, should ever think, even in their wildest dreams, of granting general amnesty to the members of the terrorist outfit who have criminal cases pending against them. People cannot simply ignore the agonies of the families of the victims — thousands of men, women and children who lost their lives at the hands of these terrorists. It will also be an insult to the kith and kin of those thousands of families who were the target of the outfit’s bullets. The government should also seriously fight the cases against the criminals in the court of law so that the guilty are suitably punished. *The ULFA leaders should self-introspect and repent for their crimes by languishing in jail; only then will things come to their logical conclusion.* If Binayak Sen can be unfairly sentenced to life imprisonment by a trial court in Chhattisgarh for sedition and having links to Maoists, then why cannot the members of a terrorist outfit be punished, especially since they have killed thousands of innocent people in the name of revolution? Deepak K Rajkhowa, Guwahati-1. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] OPINION POLL QUERIES: AMBIGUOUS
I agree with C'da that this poll has a lot to be desired. Further, an internet poll is at best a guesstimate, and quite unscientific. On an issue like this, and targeting only a handful of people who have access to the internet is not helpful. My guess is that most people in Assam have limited or no internet. --Ram On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 8:09 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: The Poll itself is not merely ambiguous, it is also appallingly simple-minded, not to mention oblivious or ignorant, of the issues that are interrelated. To offer a response would be equally simple minded, if not careless. On Feb 13, 2011, at 2:38 AM, uttam borthakur wrote: 1) Should Paresh Barua join the peace talks? NO 2) Can peace talks be successful without Paresh Barua? NO 3) Should ULFA negotiate for soveriegnty during the peace talks?NO 4) Should ULFA leaders be allowed to vote during the elections?YES 5) Is it a good decission to leave ULFA leaders from jail for talks?NO 6) Do you think can the current peace talks help in holistic development of society?NO 7) Should people forgive the ULFA leaders for the pains and miseries they have caused to the people of Assam? NO Uttam Kumar Borthakur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1iref=BN1 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Hehe! Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just talking about will be palatable :-) But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it looks like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a government chosen by it's people. ---Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Now comes the hard part :-) On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1iref=BN1 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
They have shown patience and courage, two traits that link our freedom fighters to them Which ' our freedom fighters' are we talking about? This might be interesting, depending on the answer :-) --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Saugot Chowdhury sau...@gmail.com wrote: This is the begining of new era. They have shown patience and courage, two traits that link our freedom fighters to them. Now i hope winds of change will hit other countries in the world under dictatorship like libiya..god bless the land of pharoh.. On 11 Feb 2011 22:21, Pragyan Tinsukia College pragyan.ts...@gmail.com wrote: ITS TIME TO DEMOCRATS OF THE WORLD TO CELEBRATE. Sushanta Kar On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Ram Sarangapani assa...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2... -- Sushanta Kar Executive Editor , Pragyan ** Read and Write in PRAGYAN Web: http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now , Blog: http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com/ A Quarterly Journal of Academic, Intellectual and Career Pursuit from Tinsukia College. We believe not on the Bondage of knowledge, But in Its Freedom. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamn... ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. C'da, While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there is a single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or the other (of course, I am talking about democracies). And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, don't forget to add language, state, race, caste color into the mix. ---Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hehe! Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just talking about will be palatable :-) But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it looks like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a government chosen by it's people. ---Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Now comes the hard part :-) On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1iref=BN1 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Oh! you are talking about Indian's independence movement. For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of 'freedom fighters' in the NE. Those guys are now making a beeline to Dilli to strike some great deals. Most of us knew they would be given a red carpet welcome. And those hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues who bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not the one to rub it in. :-) btw: you don't have to call me Sir' --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Saugot Chowdhury sau...@gmail.com wrote: Sir, if i say that we gained freedom from oppsessive regime only by guns will be true. But our father of nation taught us to be non cooperative towards regime machinery. The whole egypt episode reminds me of those developments. I have nt seen the plight of our forefathers but i have seen my brothers struggle in egypt for democracy. Whether name mandela or syu ki., the whole developments are same On 11 Feb 2011 22:42, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hehe! Now, we will have to see if ... ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Well, C'da I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to change belief systems prejudices that are ages old. And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find examples. You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the bastion of secular/democratic principles. --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. C'da, While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there is a single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or the other (of course, I am talking about democracies). And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, don't forget to add language, state, race, caste color into the mix. ---Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hehe! Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just talking about will be palatable :-) But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it looks like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a government chosen by it's people. ---Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Now comes the hard part :-) On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1iref=BN1 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Dilli is the big bad wolf - we all know that. We all expected they would roll out the red carpets, wine dine them. But ain't it a big surprise, that our home-grown varieties would take Dilli's bait? And poor MM Singh his aunt will say anything and everything. He is no constitutional expert, and is barely a prime minister - don't fall for what he says. NOW as to declare the Indian Constitution's flexibility to address these bad folks' grievances? Where was that flexibility before they took to arms? Still expecting the sovereignty miracle, oh well! All Dilli wants to do is to dole out some cheap sops to these guys, and bring some stability to the NE - so that it can get another shot at jobs, development growth. *** We all know of those who find solace in taunting their opponents when they have little to offer :-). Isn't offering no solutions better than than those that were totally off-kilter? :-) --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of 'freedom fighters' in the NE. And why are they so bad? If they were so bad, why is Dilli spreading the red-carpet for them now? They don't need to. The armed revolters were defeated you know? And why is MMS so generous NOW as to declare the Indian Constitution's flexibility to address these bad folks' grievances? Where was that flexibility before they took to arms? And those hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. *** Yes ? Whose principles are alluding to :-)? The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues who bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not the one to rub it in. :-) *** We all know of those who find solace in taunting their opponents when they have little to offer :-). On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Oh! you are talking about Indian's independence movement. For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of 'freedom fighters' in the NE. Those guys are now making a beeline to Dilli to strike some great deals. Most of us knew they would be given a red carpet welcome. And those hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues who bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not the one to rub it in. :-) btw: you don't have to call me Sir' --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Saugot Chowdhury sau...@gmail.com wrote: Sir, if i say that we gained freedom from oppsessive regime only by guns will be true. But our father of nation taught us to be non cooperative towards regime machinery. The whole egypt episode reminds me of those developments. I have nt seen the plight of our forefathers but i have seen my brothers struggle in egypt for democracy. Whether name mandela or syu ki., the whole developments are same On 11 Feb 2011 22:42, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hehe! Now, we will have to see if ... ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
SC, Your sentiments are pretty common in Assam. But the bright side is there are many people in Assam other places who are working hard to make things much better. Unemployment and poverty are two of the big issues. Hopefully, the investment climate will improve drastically and the state can make greater strides. B'deshi immigration is, in my opinion, a problem that no one with any power wants to resolve. --Ram da On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Saugot Chowdhury sau...@gmail.com wrote: Thik asa apunak sir nokou..you know (well this is my personal opinion, strictly) i never was in favor of independant assam nor i am now. We couldnt use our hard earned democracy and we could nt use asom andolon. Then what the hell we could do with independant assam. Our people have a name of laha laha people stil we couldnt figure out who the bangladesis are, still they work in our backyard pacholi bagisha everyday. I am afraid if assam become independant today we will be able to see another afghanisthan or NWFP in pakistan. Ram da i had been to assam five years ago, i dont know what's happening there but i am sure we assamese people are still illiterate from the point of view of democratic struggle. On 11 Feb 2011 23:13, Ram Sarangapani assa...@gmail.com wrote: Oh! you are talking about Indian's independence movement. For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of 'freedom fighters' in the NE. Those guys are now making a beeline to Dilli to strike some great deals. Most of us knew they would be given a red carpet welcome. And those hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues who bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not the one to rub it in. :-) btw: you don't have to call me Sir' --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Saugot Chowdhury sau...@gmail.com wrote: Sir, if i say that ... ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http:/... ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Secularism
KC, Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of the conservative talk shows, and even senators congressmen/women are regularly on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And these folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws (or societal principles). The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could be termed 'cultural'. --Ram da On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty krish_...@yahoo.com wrote: Here is from wiki -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not uniform throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. --- I thought you are one of those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's lighting the CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. offices) decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their sleeves to look good :) BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to reply. * On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Well, C'da I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to change belief systems prejudices that are ages old. That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the adherents of those faiths. If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find examples. You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the bastion of secular/democratic principles The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. Remember the TEN Commandments Statue in the Alabama Supreme Court Building? You know where they are now, don't you :-)? --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta cmahanta at gmail.com wrote: *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. C'da, While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there is a single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or the other (of course, I am talking about democracies). And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, don't forget to add language, state, race, caste color into the mix. ---Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta cmahanta at gmail.com wrote: *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hehe! Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just talking about will be palatable :-) But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it looks like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a government chosen by it's people. ---Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta cmahanta at gmail.com wrote: Now comes the hard part :-) On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1iref=BN1 ___ assam mailing list assam at assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam at assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam at assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam at assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam at assamnet.org http://assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Secularism
C'da, If I'm not mistaken, a short prayer is often done in office Christmas parties. Don't know about the WH Christmas tree. The US $ bills also have In God we trust. Is that secular? One may argue that it doesn't specifically refer to the Christian God, but what about them American atheists? Is it 'secular' to them? The Supreme Court (as well as all US courts, Federal or state) always swear on the Bible. In India they swear on the Bhagavad Geeta. Not sure why people are required to take an oath to tell the truth. Wouldn't they, even if they didn't swear? It is as if people by default will lie, unless they swear upon some holy text. Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a Puja? Probably not. And nor will the GOI pay a Hindu to go on trip to Mecca (if he so desired). To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or caste. --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could be termed 'cultural'. That is a real strtch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not performing Pujas., which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a Puja? On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: KC, Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of the conservative talk shows, and even senators congressmen/women are regularly on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And these folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws (or societal principles). The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could be termed 'cultural'. --Ram da On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty krish_...@yahoo.com wrote: Here is from wiki -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not uniform throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. --- I thought you are one of those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's lighting the CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. offices) decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their sleeves to look good :) BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to reply. * On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Well, C'da I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to change belief systems prejudices that are ages old. That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the adherents of those faiths. If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find examples. You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the bastion of secular/democratic principles The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. Remember the TEN Commandments Statue in the Alabama Supreme Court Building? You know where they are now, don't you :-)? --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta cmahanta at gmail.com wrote: *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. C'da, While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there is a single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or the other (of course, I am talking about democracies). And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, don't forget to add language, state, race, caste color into the mix. ---Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta cmahanta at gmail.com wrote: *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming
Re: [Assam] Secularism
B: Those who pioneered it, did have to experiment with it, and thus it took time. What is India's excuse? It's not an excuse, it's just that India has a lot more challenges, languages, people, customs religions. No other country can boast of so much diversity. --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 4:45 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: The older and younger argument, as a means for defending the failures and aberrations, is fallacious, because: A: It is not that India is having to INVENT what is right. They already know it and wave it around. Except that it is only the wrappings. B: Those who pioneered it, did have to experiment with it, and thus it took time. What is India's excuse? On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Assam wrote: C'da, I agree. In fact, I'll go a bit further: The strength of a true Democracy lies in it's ability to protect and uphold the rights of it's weakest minorities. Once that's done, it can go ahead with the next rung, and so on. Having said that, I think democracies go through phases challenges. Even advanced democracies (UK) find it difficult to meet those challenges. India is only 6 decades old. Comparatively, there are glaring lapses in this experiment, even in the US. --Ram Sent from my iPhone On Feb 11, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or caste. *** So does Democracy. But in a true democracy there ARE limits to majority power. That is why in an enlightened pluralistic society, majority will must not be the only thing that rules. On Feb 11, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, If I'm not mistaken, a short prayer is often done in office Christmas parties. Don't know about the WH Christmas tree. The US $ bills also have In God we trust. Is that secular? One may argue that it doesn't specifically refer to the Christian God, but what about them American atheists? Is it 'secular' to them? The Supreme Court (as well as all US courts, Federal or state) always swear on the Bible. In India they swear on the Bhagavad Geeta. Not sure why people are required to take an oath to tell the truth. Wouldn't they, even if they didn't swear? It is as if people by default will lie, unless they swear upon some holy text. Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a Puja? Probably not. And nor will the GOI pay a Hindu to go on trip to Mecca (if he so desired). To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or caste. --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could be termed 'cultural'. That is a real strtch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not performing Pujas., which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a Puja? On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: KC, Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of the conservative talk shows, and even senators congressmen/women are regularly on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And these folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws (or societal principles). The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could be termed 'cultural'. --Ram da On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty krish_...@yahoo.com wrote: Here is from wiki -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not uniform throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. --- I thought you are one of those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's lighting the CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. offices) decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their sleeves to look good :) BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to reply. * On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Well, C'da I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest
Re: [Assam] Earthquake at 7.28PM on 04.01.2011 in Assam.
Here is a link from *IRIS* (*Incorporated Research Institutions for Seismology*) http://www.iris.edu/seismon/zoom/?view=evedaylon=92lat=25 If the mouse is moved to the circle on the map covering India/Myanmar border, it shows this: (Feb 4, 6.4 mag at 13:53 UTC). It is interesting to note that there were also bit milder quakes on Feb 1 (Indo China border), and on Jan 27 (Indo-Myanmar border) Last 2 Weeks of Earthquakes (within 10 degrees of LON=94.7397, LAT=24.6164) DATE links are into the IRIS WILBER system where you can see seismograms and request datasets. DATE and TIME (UTC) LAT-ITUDE LONG-ITUDE MAG-NITUDE DEPTH km REGION 04-FEB-2011 13:53:47 24.62 94.74 6.4 88.8 MYANMAR-INDIA BORDER REGION 01-FEB-2011 07:11:27 24.74 98.02 4.8 39.6 MYANMAR-CHINA BORDER REGION 27-JAN-2011 22:40:06 24.26 94.62 4.7 100.0 MYANMAR-INDIA BORDER REGION 3 database rows displayed. Earthquake data courtesy of http://earthquake.usgs.gov/regional/neic/ [image: clear] http://www.iris.edu/hq On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Pragyan Tinsukia College pragyan.ts...@gmail.com wrote: I've just felt it Chandanda, For a few second I thought if I should off all the switches of my home. Them suddenly remembered it was suggested by the experts not to touch even. I don't know any other geographical information. Sushanta On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Buljit: When you forward such alarmist news, warning, prank or plain gobledy-gook, you must EXPLAIN where you got such info., do your due diligence on its credibility and so forth. Otherwise you will be complicit in spreading unfounded fears or a hoax. cm On Feb 4, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Buljit Buragohain wrote: Earthquake at 7.28PM on 04.01.2011 in Assam. Richter scale : 6.5 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org -- Sushanta Kar Executive Editor , Pragyan ** Read and Write in PRAGYAN Web: http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now , Blog: http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com/ A Quarterly Journal of Academic, Intellectual and Career Pursuit from Tinsukia College. We believe not on the Bondage of knowledge, But in Its Freedom. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Let's celebrate a day in the life of India - TOI
Anyone wants to join the contest? At least, there seems to be some recognition awareness of this Indian mosaic! --Ram http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Lets-celebrate-a-day-in-the-life-of-India/articleshow/7415498.cms Let's celebrate a day in the life of India Feb 3, 2011, 03.04am IST Cows sunbathing on expressways. Bare-bodied sadhus on cellphones. Chappal combats in Parliamenthttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Parliament. Spitting and urinating in public places. Chaos, golmaal, jugaad... all pieces of a vast multi-cultural mosaic called India. The Times of India invites the entire nation to come together to help create this mosaic, with A Day in the Life of Indiahttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=A%20Day%20in%20the%20Life%20of%20India. All you need to do is to shoot a photo or video , draw a cartoon or just tell us a joke , on anything you feel makes India, India. You can come up entirely with your own idea of what to create, or take up one of various assignments we have drawn up under each of these categories. For example, a video on the chaos on our roads, or a photograph on bizarre signboards messages. The best entries stand a chance to win attractive cash prizes ranging from Rs 10,000 to Rs 5 lakh as well as loads of cool merchandise - whacky T-shirts, crazy bags and mugs, all with images that say: this happens only in India. And what's more, the best work will be showcased prominently in The Times of India, Times Now, Zoom and Radio Mirchi. So how do you get started? First, just log on to our dedicated website for this programme, www.day.in . Take inspiration from the loads of cutting-edge material already put up there - great ads from the past and present, hilarious photographs and cartoons from TOI's archives and more. Then put on your thinking caps, pull out your cameras (or sharpen your pencils) and create your own take on how we are like that only. Or simply keep your eyes and ears open; there's no dearth of mad, loony, frustrating or plain absurd things you'll come across in your daily life to capture on camera. Once you have your photo, video, cartoon or joke to submit, just upload it on the site; (it's very simple, much like how it is on popular video or social networking sites). Or, simply join the conversations taking place on the website. Share your comments on all the stuff that's featured there, or take part in simple contests like captioning pictures or completing jokes. So how about celebrating all the quirks that make India the unique place it is? Some of the themes that you could explore in your entry Chalta Hai India : Don't we all know the infamous I don't care attitude. Dumping garbage on roads, playing cards at work, cops sleeping on duty... the list is endless! Pushy India : We love pushing and shoving, be it in a bank queue, on a public transport or at ticket counters. Overloaded India : Typical scenes of over-usage of capacity of all kinds... remember the famous Fevicol ad? Bizarre India : We inherit the strangest of customs, rituals and superstitions and pass it on generations after generations, like idols drinking milk, walking barefoot on fire, etc. Golmaal India : Bribery, underhand nexus, cutting corners, phoney red lights, touts and fake brands. Jugaad India : We invented this phenomenon. It is all about bending and bypassing rules to get a job done. Chaotic India: We live in complete disarray, no lane driving, chaotic parking, queues for procuring ration and temples on Thursdays... Technicolour India : A medley of colours that India is... ghagra cholis, kitschy trucks, Holi ke rang, etc. Incredible Indiahttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Incredible%20India: The beauty and heritage of India, the monuments, wildlife, beaches and the resplendence of festivals. Sign of the Times : The happy-go-lucky use of English in India. Remember all the times you have seen signs saying child beer or heard people entering a building from the backside. Points to remember * One person can submit more than one entry * A panel of judges will select the award-winning entries. The popularity of the content on the website will also be looked into. * Only original entries will be accepted. Further, entries should not be pornographic, offensive or sensitive in nature. * The contest is open till March 15, 2011 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Let's celebrate a day in the life of India - TOI
Now,now C'da, where is that sense of humor? :-) Cows sunbathing on expressways. Bare-bodied sadhus on cellphones. Chappal combats in Parliamenthttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Parliament. Spitting and urinating in public places. Chaos, golmaal, jugaad... all pieces of a vast multi-cultural mosaic called India. I agree, some of these like 'Chappal combats in Parliament' and the civic habits ingrained into generations of everyday Indians are easy targets, and we have to forgive them for they know not what they do :-) But you got to admit, there is some humor there the times you have seen signs saying child beer or heard people entering a building from the backside. Now, I have to get some of that 'child beer'. --Ram On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: I don't see what is funny about taking on easy targets Ram. Do you :-)? c-da On Feb 4, 2011, at 9:38 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Anyone wants to join the contest? At least, there seems to be some recognition awareness of this Indian mosaic! --Ram http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Lets-celebrate-a-day-in-the-life-of-India/articleshow/7415498.cms Let's celebrate a day in the life of India Feb 3, 2011, 03.04am IST Cows sunbathing on expressways. Bare-bodied sadhus on cellphones. Chappal combats in Parliament http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Parliament. Spitting and urinating in public places. Chaos, golmaal, jugaad... all pieces of a vast multi-cultural mosaic called India. The Times of India invites the entire nation to come together to help create this mosaic, with A Day in the Life of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=A%20Day%20in%20the%20Life%20of%20India . All you need to do is to shoot a photo or video , draw a cartoon or just tell us a joke , on anything you feel makes India, India. You can come up entirely with your own idea of what to create, or take up one of various assignments we have drawn up under each of these categories. For example, a video on the chaos on our roads, or a photograph on bizarre signboards messages. The best entries stand a chance to win attractive cash prizes ranging from Rs 10,000 to Rs 5 lakh as well as loads of cool merchandise - whacky T-shirts, crazy bags and mugs, all with images that say: this happens only in India. And what's more, the best work will be showcased prominently in The Times of India, Times Now, Zoom and Radio Mirchi. So how do you get started? First, just log on to our dedicated website for this programme, www.day.in . Take inspiration from the loads of cutting-edge material already put up there - great ads from the past and present, hilarious photographs and cartoons from TOI's archives and more. Then put on your thinking caps, pull out your cameras (or sharpen your pencils) and create your own take on how we are like that only. Or simply keep your eyes and ears open; there's no dearth of mad, loony, frustrating or plain absurd things you'll come across in your daily life to capture on camera. Once you have your photo, video, cartoon or joke to submit, just upload it on the site; (it's very simple, much like how it is on popular video or social networking sites). Or, simply join the conversations taking place on the website. Share your comments on all the stuff that's featured there, or take part in simple contests like captioning pictures or completing jokes. So how about celebrating all the quirks that make India the unique place it is? Some of the themes that you could explore in your entry Chalta Hai India : Don't we all know the infamous I don't care attitude. Dumping garbage on roads, playing cards at work, cops sleeping on duty... the list is endless! Pushy India : We love pushing and shoving, be it in a bank queue, on a public transport or at ticket counters. Overloaded India : Typical scenes of over-usage of capacity of all kinds... remember the famous Fevicol ad? Bizarre India : We inherit the strangest of customs, rituals and superstitions and pass it on generations after generations, like idols drinking milk, walking barefoot on fire, etc. Golmaal India : Bribery, underhand nexus, cutting corners, phoney red lights, touts and fake brands. Jugaad India : We invented this phenomenon. It is all about bending and bypassing rules to get a job done. Chaotic India: We live in complete disarray, no lane driving, chaotic parking, queues for procuring ration and temples on Thursdays... Technicolour India : A medley of colours that India is... ghagra cholis, kitschy trucks, Holi ke rang, etc. Incredible India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Incredible%20India: The beauty and heritage of India, the monuments, wildlife, beaches and the resplendence of festivals. Sign
[Assam] This is my Country
Amidst all the chaos in Egypt, one can see the a lot of character in the people. Egyptians have a corrupt dictator as head of government, a lot of poverty, no jobs, no bright future, a lousy police force, and things generally bad. During the chaos, some stores were looted, cars burnt, and the streets littered with debris. And what did the common, everyday protesting Egyptians do? Well, they armed themselves with brooms, and pails and got to work - by sweeping, cleaning the streets (for the last few days). And when asked, if they were paid, or why they were doing this? One bright, young, pharmacy student responded, 'This is my country, I want it to be clean!' CNN video clip http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/01/31/watson.pyramids.and.tanks.cnn?hpt=T1 I submit, Indians could learn a thing or two from these Egyptians! --Ram ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Quote of the day
what are doing up so late...? bhaat khali ne nai? On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Alpana B. Sarangapani absarangap...@hotmail.com wrote: Decide that you want it more than you are afraid of it. -Bill Cosby Sent via BlackBerry by ATT ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Quote of the day
Ooops! please ignore previous msg. Sent to Alpana (she's out of town) Sorry about that!! On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Ram Sarangapani assa...@gmail.com wrote: what are doing up so late...? bhaat khali ne nai? On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Alpana B. Sarangapani absarangap...@hotmail.com wrote: Decide that you want it more than you are afraid of it. -Bill Cosby Sent via BlackBerry by ATT ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] I PAID a Bribe - a unique initiative
Oh C'da, You are putting me in a spot here:-). If a good majority of Indians are corrupt, or are 'forced' to be corrupt (that is generally what one hears), then this won't work. Moreover, how does one expect the corrupt to be introspective, and can a small minority turn the tide? Lastly, what is the site supposed to do - other than embarrass a few people? Looking at the scams and scandals flying left right, I doubt if any of these people even worry about being embarrassed. All they have to do is to lay low for a while, till the thing blows over. --Ram On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Ram Sarangapani assa...@gmail.com wrote: Just came across this (a friend sent this). Seems to be a new and interesting way of combating corruption in India. What do netters think. I Paid a Bribe is a unique initiative to fight corruption. Its primary aim is to uncover the market price of corruption. Tell IPAB your stories. Using these we'll advocate with the government for an improved system. Together let's fight corruption. www.ipaidabribe.com --Ram ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] I PAID A BRIBE
Dear Bhuban da, Nice to hear from you after such along time. I think the Satras in Assam are in this situation due to sheer neglect over decades. Probably only the Majuli Barpeta ones get some attention. One keeps hearing the ones as Bordawa and Madhupur and others are in bad shape. --Ram On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 3:34 AM, bbar...@aol.com wrote: Dear Ram ? I opened the dossier (pdg), and went through only the part relating to the Karnataka transport network. I cannot praise enough the excellence and thoroughness of its presentation of the subject. Through you and our website ? allow me to congratulate its authors. ? Presumably, so far as the transport system is concerned, a similar situation prevails in the rest of India. Another ? department mired in corruption since the very beginning of colonial administration is the land revenue department. ? But as I see it, if somebody attempts to do something about it, his or her life will be at risk because in some branches ? practically every employee is involved. ? Regards ? Bhuban Baruah ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] The Sustained Loot of Hindu Temples - Sentinel Op Ed
is that the Indian media, especially the English television and press, are often anti-Hindu in their approach, and thus not inclined to give much coverage, and certainly no sympathy, for anything that may affect the Hindu community. Personally, I don't trust these people myself. But, I would be curious about WHY the English language media is so anti-Hindu? Is it because they are controlled by people who are, say, radical or even benign Muslims? Agents of the Vatican? Foreign enemies? What?? Kamath obviously agrees, because he chose to accept Knapps verdict without attempting to analyze? How would the thoughtful Assamnet reader view it? Explain it? A charge is made that the communist State government of Kerala wants to pass an Ordinance to disband the Travancore Cochin Autonomous Devaswom Boards (TCDBs) and take over their limited independent authority of 1,800 Hindu temples. Well? Is it true? If it IS, what should be done about it and WHO should do it? We are listening, Kamath Bhai. Knapp obviously is on record. If the facts produced by him are incorrect, it is up to the government to say so. *** Yeah? Will it? One can't avoid wondering about Kamath's ability to reason here, considering that he ought to be very familiar with Indian Govt. responsiveness to its people. It is quite possible that some individuals might have set up temples to deal with lucrative earnings. But that, surely, is none of the government’s business? *** No? Kamath, on the one hand wants this Guvmint to explain why it usurps temples' properties and wealth as charged by Knapp, but on the other hand does not want the Govt. to get involved if fake Temple businesses are looting the people. Has this guy been smoking something he should not be? Instead of taking over all earnings, the government surely can appoint local committees to look into temple affairs so that the amount discovered is fairly used for the public good? *** It should? Says Knapp:“Nowhere in the free, democratic world are the religious institutions managed, maligned and controlled by the government, thus denying the religious freedom of the people of the country. But it is happening in India Yo Kamath, do you read good? Did you forget that Temples ought not to be the Guvmint's bidness? Like churches or mosques or Xotros? The damn Guvmint should be the LAST entity to APPOINT committees to administer Temples. It ought to be done by those who use them, sustain them. Sheesh! This Kamath guy is a piece of work. I wonder if he reads what he writes before he sends them out for publication. And of course it is hard not to notice that rags that publish them don't either. cm On Jan 21, 2011, at 10:25 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: I think people have long known that funds collected in temples have been misused right from the get go. This Op Ed tells us how serious ans big the problem has become. --Ram The Sustained Loot of Hindu Temples *The Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowment Act of 1951 allows State governments and politicians to take over Hindu temples and maintain complete control over them and their properties. It is claimed that they can sell the temple assets and properties* While Congress leaders are hell-bent on damning the RSS — it is an old game that has long ceased to have any meaning — they seem to be unaware (or deliberately wish to ignore) that as late as on July 4, 2010, the right hand of a 53-year-old Christian College professor (One TJ Joseph) was chopped off by Muslim fundamentalists, at Thodapurzha, Iduki district, in Kerala, for alleged blasphemy. Digvijay Singh probably does not want to be reminded of this. Nor, one suspects, would he be anxious to know that police found out that this heinous crime was committed as part of the implementation of the verdict of a Shariah court run by fundamentalist elements in Kerala. The police apparently discovered that 14 such parallel courts have been running in Kerala for the last 20 years, and Kerala Home Minister Kodiveri Balakrishnan has been reported as confessing that since 1993, 22 murders have taken place under the direction of the Shariah courts in Kerala (vide, Mangalam, July 21, 2010). Digvijay Singh can check this bit of information as could Rahul Gandhi. At the same time they could both check out on the performance of the Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowment Act of 1951 which allows State governments and politicians to take over thousands of Hindu temples and maintain complete control over them and their properties. It is claimed that they can sell the temple assets and properties and use the money in any way they choose. A charge has been made not by any temple authority, but by a foreign writer, Stephen Knapp, in a book (Crimes against India and the Need to Protect Ancient Vedic
[Assam] I PAID a Bribe - a unique initiative
Just came across this (a friend sent this). Seems to be a new and interesting way of combating corruption in India. What do netters think. I Paid a Bribe is a unique initiative to fight corruption. Its primary aim is to uncover the market price of corruption. Tell IPAB your stories. Using these we'll advocate with the government for an improved system. Together let's fight corruption. www.ipaidabribe.com --Ram ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] The Sustained Loot of Hindu Temples - Sentinel Op Ed
I think people have long known that funds collected in temples have been misused right from the get go. This Op Ed tells us how serious ans big the problem has become. --Ram The Sustained Loot of Hindu Temples *The Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowment Act of 1951 allows State governments and politicians to take over Hindu temples and maintain complete control over them and their properties. It is claimed that they can sell the temple assets and properties* While Congress leaders are hell-bent on damning the RSS — it is an old game that has long ceased to have any meaning — they seem to be unaware (or deliberately wish to ignore) that as late as on July 4, 2010, the right hand of a 53-year-old Christian College professor (One TJ Joseph) was chopped off by Muslim fundamentalists, at Thodapurzha, Iduki district, in Kerala, for alleged blasphemy. Digvijay Singh probably does not want to be reminded of this. Nor, one suspects, would he be anxious to know that police found out that this heinous crime was committed as part of the implementation of the verdict of a Shariah court run by fundamentalist elements in Kerala. The police apparently discovered that 14 such parallel courts have been running in Kerala for the last 20 years, and Kerala Home Minister Kodiveri Balakrishnan has been reported as confessing that since 1993, 22 murders have taken place under the direction of the Shariah courts in Kerala (vide, Mangalam, July 21, 2010). Digvijay Singh can check this bit of information as could Rahul Gandhi. At the same time they could both check out on the performance of the Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowment Act of 1951 which allows State governments and politicians to take over thousands of Hindu temples and maintain complete control over them and their properties. It is claimed that they can sell the temple assets and properties and use the money in any way they choose. A charge has been made not by any temple authority, but by a foreign writer, Stephen Knapp, in a book (Crimes against India and the Need to Protect Ancient Vedic Tradition) published in the United States that makes shocking reading. Hundreds of temples in centuries past have been built in India by devout rulers, and the donations given to them by devotees have been used for the benefit of the people. If presently, money collected has ever been misused (and that word needs to be defined), it is for the devotees to protest and not for any government to interfere. This latter is what has been happening currently under an intrusive law. It would seem, for instance, that under a Temple Empowerment Act, about 34,000 temples in Andhra Pradesh have come under government control and only 18 per cent of the revenue of these temples have been returned for temple purposes, the remaining 82 per cent being used for purposes unstated. Apparently even the world famous Tirumala Tirupati Temple has not been spared. According to Knapp, the temple collects over Rs 3,100 crore every year, “and the State Government has not denied the charge that as much as 85 per cent of this is transferred to the State Exchequer, much of which goes to causes that are not connected with the Hindu community”. Is it for that reason that devotees make their offerings to the temples? Another charge that has been made is that the Andhra Government has also allowed the demolition of at least ten temples for the construction of a golf course. “Imagine the outcry,” writes Knapp, “if ten mosques had been demolished.” It would seem that in Karnataka, Rs 79 crore was collected from about 2 lakh temples, and from that, temples received Rs 7 crore for their maintenance, Muslim madrassahs and Haj subsidy were given Rs 59 crore, and churches about Rs 13 crore. Very generous of the government. Because of this, Knapp writes, “25 per cent of the two lakh temples or about 50,000 temples in Karnataka will be closed down for lack of resources.” And he adds: “The only way the government can continue to do this is because people have not stood up enough to stop it.” Knapp then refers to Kerala where, he says, “funds from the Guruvayur Temple are diverted to other government projects denying improvement to 45 Hindu temples”. Land belonging to the Ayyappa Temple apparently has been grabbed and “church encroaches are occupying huge areas of forest land, running into thousands of acres, near Sabarimala”. A charge is made that the communist State government of Kerala wants to pass an Ordinance to disband the Travancore Cochin Autonomous Devaswom Boards (TCDBs) and take over their limited independent authority of 1,800 Hindu temples. If what the author says is true, even the Maharashtra government wants to take over some 4,50,000 temples in the State which would “supply a huge amount of revenue to correct the State’s bankrupt conditions...” And to top it all, Knapp says that in Orissa, the State government intends to sell over 70,000 acres of endowment lands from the Jagannath Temple, the
Re: [Assam] Guwahati
C'da, perpetuated by the Center and there is no escape from it, unless and until, one or more states break away from this broken system and re-construct their own. Interesting. There is an article by Patricia Mukhim in the AT today, Peace Talks - where they lead? ( http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/showpage.asp?id=jan2011,6,420,111,996,897). She spells it out quite clearly how both Meghalaya Nagaland have become much worse off (than within Assam or National standards) after seeking separation in the name of development and 'caring for the people'. If these states, sanctioned, supported and blessed by Delhi have not been able to do well (and there are others), what can one expect from pioneers trying to reconstruct their own states/system? Over the years we have all seen leaders of varied groups claiming to lead their flock out of the 'wilderness', promising the very heavens, xunor Asom, etc. The interests of such leaders was basically to amass huge amounts of wealth, power for themselves. Problems like bad governance at the Center or state, or of ethnic identities were just used to justify their cause. We can all blame the Center it's governance, in the end, it is the corrupt individual, and really gullible sections of people. A good example these days is Bihar Nitish Kumar. We all thought Bihar was history. But it seems to be rebounding back with a vengeance - and this in spite of a bad Central governance. Unfortunately, in Assam, there probably isn't any known power block that is not corrupt. Corruption seems to have spread and affected all facets of common life. --Ram On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Well said. All of it is true. But the question remains: Are these things hitherto unknown requirements or parameters or conditions? Not so. So where does the problem lie? I would submit it is in the dysfunctional nature of governance, local, state and national. I know, I will be challenged for lumping national here with state and local governance. That is because the entire system of dysfunctional Indian governance is conceived and perpetuated by the Center and there is no escape from it, unless and until, one or more states break away from this broken system and re-construct their own. On Jan 20, 2011, at 1:41 AM, Amitabh Kakoty wrote: A major share of Guwahati's chaos is due to: 1. Ill-conceived development regulations / byelaws; specifically the norms for mimimum road width and regulations related to sub-division of plots are poorly conceived. There is no hierarchical road system in the city - you have few arterials (e.g. GS, Zoo Rds), then you have 3/4 mt wide lanes in most areas extended for several kilometres without a higher-order road (Everyone knows it but plz check Google Maps to understand how severe the problem is). These lanes do not facilitate sufficient width for installing basic urban infrastructure. Land in new areas in the city are now being sub-divided with such lanes - Xoruxojai, Uttor Guwahati, Jalukbari, / For reference: Minimum Road width in Bahrain - 12.5mtrs for newly developed areas - or else you are not going to get a planning permission / development permission approved. People should have understood that with better infrastructure / larger roads, in an attractive city such as Guwahati (regionally attractive, higher in demand) land and property values would have been higher at the same time ascertaining a better quality of life. 2. Poorly designed drainage system (not comprehensive, not intelligent) disrespecting natural gradiants and existing water bodies. --- Otherwise Guwahati could have been a unique city with lakes (a lake/bil, almost in every corner), wide canals (connecting these lakes - facilitating fishing, transportation, storm water balance and off course tourism) and existing rivulets, green hills (with large extended parks) and the scenic Brahmaputra!! 3. If we can not afford to build world class urban roads now, if we can not afford other infrastructures, but with better management, by just protecting suitable Right of Ways for roads, proper widths for canals and areas under natural water bodies under an efficient plan, we could have saved this two-thousand years old city. You dont need large resources for adopting better planning and urban management procedures for a city. 4. Higher density or intensive activities (say a transport node - station, a capital complex, or a market) in a city can not be made responsible for all these chaos; the underlying urban planning and management procedures are to be blamed - or else as everyone agrees, chaos will only spread out to other peaceful areas with these activities. We should try learning from city's abroad how they are efficiently managing high-density developments - e.g. Hong Kong, Singapore. 5. At the same time
[Assam] Sentinel Op Ed
http://www.sentinelassam.com/editorial/story.php?sec=3subsec=0id=60947dtP=2011-01-19ppr=1#60947 **country does neither depend on raising slogans nor on chastising people who want to opt out because they are maltreated and denied what a dominant group in a State enjoys as its right. This leads to desperation and people come to have faith in extremism. In some cases, the ethnic cleansing is considered a way out. Small evidence is visible on the border of Meghalaya and Assam where people speaking other languages have been pushed out of territories A good article by Kuldip Nayar. My own take is a bit different. Though Nayar alludes to it indirectly, I think, one of the big reason is due to much baser human qualities, of greed, power, and corruption. The more states, autonomous units, and districts (in a state), the more the avenues for siphoning off funds into the pockets of the leaders clamoring for these entities. If there ever were any good reasons for a separate state or district in India, they are all long gone, given the highly corrupt state of the country. Time and again, we have seen in the case of India, and certainly Assam, these 'limbs' that Nayar talks about have little or no effect on development of the area in question. The leaders only drum up regional or nationalistic feelings among their 'flock' to create unrest and havoc to get their way. In the end, the spoils usually go to the leaders of these disparate groups, and an already suffering state, suffers more, and more severely. To be fair, though, the power centers, whether it is Dispur or Delhi, never pay any attention to so many outlying areas till there is a huge unrest. This knee-jerk attitude both at the center and state levels have caused immense harm to the country. This time, we happened to travel to Titabor. Along the way from Guwahati to Titabor there were huge areas of little or no development. If there were any, they were just haphazard outgrowths of shanty towns in the making - a wannabe Guwahati. The approach to Titabor was done up, we heard that CM sahib hails from Titabor. It is little wonder, that many political or 'social' opportunists prey on tired, beat-up sections of people when demanding such political divisions. The goals of these opportunities are in complete variance with the needs of the people they purport to lead. The bigger the clamor, the bigger the payoffs for these opportunists. Unfortunately, before most people realize, the opportunists have made off with the loot. Sad state of affairs indeed. --Ram ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Black Money Acct Holder Names Cannot be Made Public
This article from Bloomberg might help. There is a slight problem for MM Singh. While most foreign governments (like the US, Germany etc) are fighting the Swiss banks to release bank/account data, MM Singh is fighting India and cooperating with the Swiss. --Ram http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchivesid=akmcfUr7TqHs Swiss Banks Achilles Heel Is Workers Selling Data (Update1) By Warren Giles - Feb 02, 2010 Feb. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Swiss banks are discovering that the biggest threat to client privacy is their own workers. German Chancellor Angela Merkelhttp://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Angela+Merkelsite=wnewsclient=wnewsproxystylesheet=en10_wnewsoutput=xml_no_dtdie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8filter=pgetfields=wnnissort=date:D:S:d1said yesterday her government may buy stolen data on Swiss bank accounts as French authorities comb information acquired from an employee of HSBC Holdings Plc’shttp://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?T=en10/quote.wmticker=HSBN%3ALNprivate bank in Geneva. The cases come two years after Germany paid 5 million euros ($7 million) for details filched from LGT Group in neighboring Liechtenstein. “This is a kind of business war against Switzerland in which practices which were completely illegal have become acceptable,” says Daniel Fischer, founder of Zurich-based Fischer Partner law firm who specializes in banking law and fraud. “It’s a huge danger for Swiss banks.” The willingness of governments to pay for stolen data is fanning tensions with France and Germany as Switzerland seeks to negotiate treaties implementing its commitment to cooperate with international tax probes. The Swiss government said last month it will draft a law barring officials from assisting foreign countries in cases involving theft of client details. Germany’s use of such data would be “counterproductive” in future negotiations, and the German government shouldn’t be handling stolen goods, the Swiss Bankers Association said in a Jan. 30 statement. The association represents more than 300 banks, including UBS AGhttp://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?T=en10/quote.wmticker=UBSN%3AVXand Credit Suisse Group AGhttp://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?T=en10/quote.wmticker=CSGN%3AVX. Incentive to Steal “What’s new recently is the price paid by states for lists, which makes it more attractive” for employees to steal, Anne-Marie de Weckhttp://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Anne-Marie+de+Wecksite=wnewsclient=wnewsproxystylesheet=en10_wnewsoutput=xml_no_dtdie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8filter=pgetfields=wnnissort=date:D:S:d1, managing partner at Geneva-based private bank Lombard Odier, told reporters last month in Bern. In bank security, “the most important factor is human,” she said. An unidentified individual has offered to sell Germany information on about 1,300 holders of Swiss bank accounts for 2.5 million euros, the Financial Times Deutschland reported yesterday, without saying where it got the information. FTD said the data came from HSBC’s private bank in Geneva, while the German newspaper Handelsblatt reported it was drawn primarily from accounts at UBS and may yield 200 million euros in lost taxes. Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung today said the information came from Credit Suisse, without providing the source of the report. UBS isn’t aware of such information, spokesman Christoph Meierhttp://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Christoph%0AMeiersite=wnewsclient=wnewsproxystylesheet=en10_wnewsoutput=xml_no_dtdie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8filter=pgetfields=wnnissort=date:D:S:d1said when asked about the Handlesblatt report. A spokesman for HSBC in Geneva declined to comment, and Credit Suisse issued a statement saying it had “no information” that the bank was affected. “We should aim to get hold of this data if it’s relevant,” because Germany needs to crack down on tax violators, Merkel told reporters yesterday in Berlin. Liechtenstein Precedent Germany last year prosecuted tax evaders, including former Deutsche Post AG Chief Executive Officer Klaus Zumwinkelhttp://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Klaus+Zumwinkelsite=wnewsclient=wnewsproxystylesheet=en10_wnewsoutput=xml_no_dtdie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8filter=pgetfields=wnnissort=date:D:S:d1, using the information bought from a former computer consultant at LGT, owned by Liechtenstein’s princely family. Zumwinkel received a two-year suspended sentence and was ordered to pay a 1 million- euro penalty after a Germany court ruled that he had “knowingly” evaded taxes. Tax authorities have increasingly been offered secret bank information since the Liechtenstein case, German Finance Ministry spokesman Michael Offerhttp://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Michael+Offersite=wnewsclient=wnewsproxystylesheet=en10_wnewsoutput=xml_no_dtdie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8filter=pgetfields=wnnissort=date:D:S:d1said yesterday. “I have a hard time imagining that we are living in a world where a government, which is supposed to set an example, can take for granted that stolen data will be the basis for action,” Patrick
Re: [Assam] Black Money Acct Holder Names Cannot be Made Public
C'da, I heard this story in while in India. Many I came across, felt that Sonia Gandhi is one of the most corrupted. It seems she has brought in a host of relatives Italy and made them all rich. And she wields the powers, and this PM is just a puppet. Further, many ministers (even opposition montris), businesses babus both in the Center and the State hold huge amounts of black money in foreign accounts. One story is that A Raja (of the 2G scam fame) stole all that wealth and promptly gave it to Karuanidhi's daughter (and son, Stalin - who is the deputy CM). The threw a few scraps to Raja. Now Raja has checked himself into Apollo Hospital, Chennai and is not coming out (he is very ill, supposedly), and not talking to anyone. He is expected to stay in the hospital till the elections are over. So, MMSingh will remain mum for his all powerful gaddhi. --Ram On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: I don't get it Ram. Why doesn't MMS or India want to know who its black-money kings are? On Jan 19, 2011, at 9:55 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: This article from Bloomberg might help. There is a slight problem for MM Singh. While most foreign governments (like the US, Germany etc) are fighting the Swiss banks to release bank/account data, MM Singh is fighting India and cooperating with the Swiss. --Ram http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchivesid=akmcfUr7TqHs Swiss Banks Achilles Heel Is Workers Selling Data (Update1) By Warren Giles - Feb 02, 2010 Feb. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Swiss banks are discovering that the biggest threat to client privacy is their own workers. German Chancellor Angela Merkel http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Angela+Merkelsite=wnewsclient=wnewsproxystylesheet=en10_wnewsoutput=xml_no_dtdie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8filter=pgetfields=wnnissort=date:D:S:d1 said yesterday her government may buy stolen data on Swiss bank accounts as French authorities comb information acquired from an employee of HSBC Holdings Plc’s http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?T=en10/quote.wmticker=HSBN%3ALN private bank in Geneva. The cases come two years after Germany paid 5 million euros ($7 million) for details filched from LGT Group in neighboring Liechtenstein. “This is a kind of business war against Switzerland in which practices which were completely illegal have become acceptable,” says Daniel Fischer, founder of Zurich-based Fischer Partner law firm who specializes in banking law and fraud. “It’s a huge danger for Swiss banks.” The willingness of governments to pay for stolen data is fanning tensions with France and Germany as Switzerland seeks to negotiate treaties implementing its commitment to cooperate with international tax probes. The Swiss government said last month it will draft a law barring officials from assisting foreign countries in cases involving theft of client details. Germany’s use of such data would be “counterproductive” in future negotiations, and the German government shouldn’t be handling stolen goods, the Swiss Bankers Association said in a Jan. 30 statement. The association represents more than 300 banks, including UBS AGhttp://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?T=en10/quote.wmticker=UBSN%3AVX and Credit Suisse Group AG http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?T=en10/quote.wmticker=CSGN%3AVX. Incentive to Steal “What’s new recently is the price paid by states for lists, which makes it more attractive” for employees to steal, Anne-Marie de Weck http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Anne-Marie+de+Wecksite=wnewsclient=wnewsproxystylesheet=en10_wnewsoutput=xml_no_dtdie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8filter=pgetfields=wnnissort=date:D:S:d1 , managing partner at Geneva-based private bank Lombard Odier, told reporters last month in Bern. In bank security, “the most important factor is human,” she said. An unidentified individual has offered to sell Germany information on about 1,300 holders of Swiss bank accounts for 2.5 million euros, the Financial Times Deutschland reported yesterday, without saying where it got the information. FTD said the data came from HSBC’s private bank in Geneva, while the German newspaper Handelsblatt reported it was drawn primarily from accounts at UBS and may yield 200 million euros in lost taxes. Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung today said the information came from Credit Suisse, without providing the source of the report. UBS isn’t aware of such information, spokesman Christoph Meier http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Christoph%0AMeiersite=wnewsclient=wnewsproxystylesheet=en10_wnewsoutput=xml_no_dtdie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8filter=pgetfields=wnnissort=date:D:S:d1 said when asked about the Handlesblatt report. A spokesman for HSBC in Geneva declined to comment, and Credit Suisse issued a statement saying it had “no information” that the bank was affected. “We should aim to get hold of this data
Re: [Assam] Top 10 Most Spoken Languages In The World, English loosing it's dominance???
Interesting. IMHO, English is dominant even today, not so much by the number of 'native' speakers, but more so by the number of people(whose mother tongue in not English) speaking it. Somehow, English is more embracing. The language seems to also has the infinite capacity to grow, and evolve and adjust to the times as opposed to any other language on earth. I feel English is going to be the leading language for the long haul. --Ram On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Pradip Kumar Datta pradip...@yahoo.comwrote: Top Most Spoken Languages In The World India's Hindustani and Bengali are in Top 10. 10. French 09. Malay-Indonesian08. Portuguese 07. Bengali 06. Arabic 05. Russian 04. Spanish 03. Hindustani 02. English 01. Mandarin Surprise! English loosing it's dominance??? http://listverse.com/2008/06/26/top-10-most-spoken-languages-in-the-world/ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] [FASS-General-Body] Proposing Wahid Da as Chairman FASS International
That is fantastic news about Wahid da, Manoj. Congratulations, Wahid da... you make us proud. Ram da On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 6:14 AM, Manoj Das dasm...@gmail.com wrote: Just now Wahidda (Wahid Saleh) received the Pravasi Bharatiya Samman. He is one among 12 chosen from different fields. Wahidda reveived the award from the Hon'ble President of India. Wahidda made the acceptance speech on behalf of the awardees, which was another recognition. I was privileged to witness the event. -manoj On 1/8/11, Vavani Sarmah vav...@yahoo.com vavani%40yahoo.com wrote: Thanks Wahid da, http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Diaspora-role-models-from-the-North-East/videoshow/7236210.cms I just finished watching the Prabashi Bharatiya Divas panel discussion (120 Mins). Great job. Having said, moving forward, I like you to take more roles and responsibilities for Friends of Assam and Seven Sisters (FASS) International. I am not sure if this is the right way to propose a extended leadership, as I am not hoping there will be a FASS general body meeting in near future. So, I am proposing Wahid da's name as Chairman FASS International. Rajen da will remain be as FASS CMD USA. If we need to re-form the FASS International constitution for better something, let's do it. Rajen da, I am more convience that there is a greater need for services FASS is intend to provide and is doing . I am very sure, with Wahid da's leadership will boost the entire mission more effectively. Partha/Ankur Please comment your views to move forward. Let's reform the FASS for greater interest and success. Anyway, great job. Talk to you. Vavani Sarmah, Vice Chairman, FASS International Washington USA -- Sent from my mobile device C 166 LGF Sarvodaya Enclave New Delhi 110017 09910972654 __._,_.___ Reply to senderdasm...@gmail.com?subject=re%3a%20%5bfass-general-body%5d%20proposing%20wahid%20da%20as%20chairman%20fass%20international| Reply to groupfass-general-b...@yahoogroups.com?subject=re%3a%20%5bfass-general-body%5d%20proposing%20wahid%20da%20as%20chairman%20fass%20international| Reply via web posthttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/FASS-General-Body/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwYzA5NGIxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjQ3MDQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA0MzYyOARtc2dJZAMxOTgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjk0NTc1Mjgx?act=replymessageNum=198| Start a New Topichttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/FASS-General-Body/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMTU3N2VqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjQ3MDQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA0MzYyOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyOTQ1NzUyODE- Messages in this topichttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/FASS-General-Body/message/188;_ylc=X3oDMTMza2R2cWwxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjQ3MDQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA0MzYyOARtc2dJZAMxOTgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjk0NTc1MjgxBHRwY0lkAzE4OA--( 11) Recent Activity: Visit Your Grouphttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/FASS-General-Body;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbm01ZmpnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjQ3MDQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA0MzYyOARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyOTQ1NzUyODE- [image: Yahoo! Groups]http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlazRibGQxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyMjQ3MDQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA0MzYyOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTI5NDU3NTI4MQ-- Switch to: Text-Onlyfass-general-body-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=change+delivery+format:+Traditional, Daily Digestfass-general-body-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject=email+delivery:+Digest• Unsubscribefass-general-body-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=unsubscribe• Terms of Use http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . __,_._,___ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] ‘Gogoi family has Rs 18-crore property in US’
Exactly my sentiments, C'da. When I saw the news item, and later this forwarded here, I felt that at the very least there was a huge misunderstanding of $ cents, and how acquiring easy home loans is in this country. The amounts are small as you put it. What was surprising (according to the news) is that some NRI's gave Akhil Gogoi the low-down on this. And this is how huge mountains are made out of molehills. :-). --Ram On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: I did a little quick math and the total value of these houses , approx. 18 crore rupees, is really a puny amount by local standards, as far as housing value goes, $ 500,000 or so. A 3 BR. condominium like the one at Mountain View CA, itself would be almost 1.5 to 2 times the combined value of the three ( or is it four) houses/condos's reported value ( $ 600,000 to $ 1,000,000). So, for one thing, the reported values mean little. For another, that CM Gogoi's son-in-law, from published accounts a Google executive, probably makes enough on HIS OWN to be able to afford a $ 1,000,000 loan on one ( or a collection of houses) described here. People buy houses with long-term loans here, not with hard cash. Therefore, the value of the houses described could NOT be construed to point to the notion of assets disproportionate to the son-in-law's assets, leading to casting aspersions on CM Gogoi or his wife being the financiers, from legitimate or corrupt sources. That may be the good news for CM Gogoi and his wife. The bad news probably lies elsewhere: the Ownership of the houses. Who is/are the Owners of these houses? The daughter and the son-in-law? The CM or his wife? Why that matters are: A: The son-in-law and the daughter are US residents, if not citizens. He probably earns enough, and she may too, to add to a tidy amount to be able to get a pretty good sized loan for a house in a high market value area like Mountatin View, California and Cambridge, MA ( home to MIT and Harvard etc.). But not so for foreigners, like Tarun Gogoi or his wife, UNLESS they also have US Permanent Resident Visas ( Green Cards. They could however. That would be interesting to know if they do. Somebody should ask the CM that question. B: If they are not green-card holders, they probably bought them for cash. There is no reason for the son-in-law or daughter to purchase houses, on loan, for TG or his wife. If any of these houses were bought with cash ( not on loan), that will be a good indication that someone other than the son-in-law or the daughter provided the cash. Be it the CM , or his wife, or some Hawala trader or some business owner or whoever. This could be easily verified from publicly available info. The lien-holders' names will be on the Titles of these houses if they are purchased with bank loans. Finally, EVEN if these houses were bought for cash and from corrupt sources, the amounts are small fry, compared to those talked about in reference to Himanta Sarma for one. I am sure there are others. In that I agree with MM's view: See how large hearted he is! He allows his henchman to take 4000Crores and he keeps only 18 crores as small tips. Just kidding! On Jan 8, 2011, at 11:52 PM, Nava Thakuria wrote: Gogoi involved in embezzlement: KMSS GUWAHATI, Jan 8 – Peasant organisation Krishak Mukti Sangram Samiti today alleged that Chief Minister Tarun Gogoi is involved in embezzling the public money of the State and part of the money laundered by him has been siphoned off to the US to procure property there in the names of members of his family. ‘Gogoi family has Rs 18-crore property in US’ The peasant organisation also demanded a CBI inquiry into the allegation and dared the Chief Minister to make a public statement on the source of the money used in procuring property in the US. Addressing mediapersons at a press conference here this afternoon, KMSS secretary Akhil Gogoi alleged that the Chief Minister has several houses in the US in the names of his wife Dolly Gogoi (12700 W Dodge Road, Omaha NE 69154), daughter Chandrima Gogoi (701 Berry Ave, Los Angeles C A 94024) and son-in-law Prasenjit Phukan (178 Ownes Ct Mountain View C A 94043; 143 Albany St, Cambridge MA 02139 and Los Altos CA 94022). The money value of these houses when added together would be Rs 17, 88, 45, 050. His daughter had declared while acquiring the property that her average annual income was Rs 64, 42, 650, while her husband Prasenjit Phukan had made three declarations stating that his average annual incomes were Rs 64, 42, 650, Rs 34, 36,050 and Rs 72, 71, 250. Chief Minster's wife Dolly Gogoi declared that her average annual income was Rs 29, 18, 650. The peasant organisation alleged that the Chief Minister requisitioned the services of his 'scam-tainted' Ministerial colleague Himanta
Re: [Assam] ‘Gogoi family has Rs 18-crore property in US’
My gut feel is that nobody is so careless, particularly those on the take. Not quite In fact, it could well be the other way. In India, corruption has reached heady heights, and siphoning off 'thousands of crores of Rs', is pretty common in the land of mega scams (and mega dams)... its done with blatant impunity, and not a shock or surprise any more. The sad part is, it is NOT considered even a tad bit shameless. They are actually quite careless. --Ram On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: What was surprising (according to the news) is that some NRI's gave Akhil Gogoi the low-down on this. *** We all know that not all NRIs are equal :-). We also know of our folks' pervasive colonial-serfdom-inspired awe of NRIs is quite unfounded. And this is how huge mountains are made out of molehills. :-). *** Personally, I won't jump to any conclusion, yet :-). *** It will be interesting to see IF any of these listed properties actually are titled to Trun Gogoi or his wife. If they are NOT, there is little chance that Akhil Gogoi will be able to nail Tarun Gogoi on this. My gut feel is that nobody is so careless, particularly those on the take. On Jan 9, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Exactly my sentiments, C'da. When I saw the news item, and later this forwarded here, I felt that at the very least there was a huge misunderstanding of $ cents, and how acquiring easy home loans is in this country. The amounts are small as you put it. What was surprising (according to the news) is that some NRI's gave Akhil Gogoi the low-down on this. And this is how huge mountains are made out of molehills. :-). --Ram On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: I did a little quick math and the total value of these houses , approx. 18 crore rupees, is really a puny amount by local standards, as far as housing value goes, $ 500,000 or so. A 3 BR. condominium like the one at Mountain View CA, itself would be almost 1.5 to 2 times the combined value of the three ( or is it four) houses/condos's reported value ( $ 600,000 to $ 1,000,000). So, for one thing, the reported values mean little. For another, that CM Gogoi's son-in-law, from published accounts a Google executive, probably makes enough on HIS OWN to be able to afford a $ 1,000,000 loan on one ( or a collection of houses) described here. People buy houses with long-term loans here, not with hard cash. Therefore, the value of the houses described could NOT be construed to point to the notion of assets disproportionate to the son-in-law's assets, leading to casting aspersions on CM Gogoi or his wife being the financiers, from legitimate or corrupt sources. That may be the good news for CM Gogoi and his wife. The bad news probably lies elsewhere: the Ownership of the houses. Who is/are the Owners of these houses? The daughter and the son-in-law? The CM or his wife? Why that matters are: A: The son-in-law and the daughter are US residents, if not citizens. He probably earns enough, and she may too, to add to a tidy amount to be able to get a pretty good sized loan for a house in a high market value area like Mountatin View, California and Cambridge, MA ( home to MIT and Harvard etc.). But not so for foreigners, like Tarun Gogoi or his wife, UNLESS they also have US Permanent Resident Visas ( Green Cards. They could however. That would be interesting to know if they do. Somebody should ask the CM that question. B: If they are not green-card holders, they probably bought them for cash. There is no reason for the son-in-law or daughter to purchase houses, on loan, for TG or his wife. If any of these houses were bought with cash ( not on loan), that will be a good indication that someone other than the son-in-law or the daughter provided the cash. Be it the CM , or his wife, or some Hawala trader or some business owner or whoever. This could be easily verified from publicly available info. The lien-holders' names will be on the Titles of these houses if they are purchased with bank loans. Finally, EVEN if these houses were bought for cash and from corrupt sources, the amounts are small fry, compared to those talked about in reference to Himanta Sarma for one. I am sure there are others. In that I agree with MM's view: See how large hearted he is! He allows his henchman to take 4000Crores and he keeps only 18 crores as small tips. Just kidding! On Jan 8, 2011, at 11:52 PM, Nava Thakuria wrote: Gogoi involved in embezzlement: KMSS GUWAHATI, Jan 8 – Peasant organisation Krishak Mukti Sangram Samiti today alleged that Chief Minister Tarun Gogoi is involved in embezzling the public money of the State and part of the money laundered by him has
Re: [Assam] VETERAN FREEDOM FIGHTER PANI RAM DAS NO MORE
Dear Bikash, Please accept our sincere condolences. We are with you at this difficult time. May his soul rest in peace. --Ram da baideu On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Dr.Bikash Kumar Das biku...@yahoo.co.inwrote: VETERAN FREEDOM FIGHTER LATE PANI RAM DAS LEFT ALL OF US AT 1630 HRS ON 30 NOV 2010 AT GHY INTL HOSPITAL.(08 APR 1917- 30 NOV 2010). HIS LAST RITES WILL BE PERFORMED in NATIVE HOUSE at KALAIGAON AT 1600 HRS ON 01 DEC 2010. LET HIS SOUL REST IN EVER PEACE. Bikash, Papori and Dimpy Barbie ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From NY Times - India's Civil Engineering Achievements
The article doesn't mention rampant corruption, specially in civil engg. and construction. As long this exists, it will be very difficult for India to move forward even if it gets the qualified people. On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: India's Civil Engineering Achievements --NOT! http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/business/global/26engineer.html ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] About Engineering/ It is everywhere.Image of IIT-tarnished?
C'da, Fairly good assessment. Nevertheless a couple of issues, which you brought up may need some delibration: Under the circumstances, it is not only FAIR, it is the RIGHT thing to RECOGNIZE and give adequate consideration and weightage, in ADDITION to the merit measured by test entrance scores, so that educationally less advantaged students from regions like Assam and elsewhere get a FAIR shot at entering these premier institutions, supported by ALL of India. Leveling the playing field is, on the face of it, a very sound policy. I think the problem though comes in this hydra-headed monster called 'reservations'. The basic principles are from the heart, and of sound economic and development policy - a rising tide raises all boats principle. Today, many aspiring candidate wants to get on this gravy train, so different groups demand that they be classified under the 6th Schedule in some 'advantaged' category. I think the IITs reserve something like 50% for SC ST , and 3% for physically handicapped candidates. I am sure there are others like children of ex-servicemen (ex military) are others. Now, if states also demand a quota - which states should be given this benefit? And at what rate or rates? It also seems the IITs not only have lower standards for some categories, but if they (candidates) still don't make the cut, the standards are lowered further, and then selected candidates are given a prep courses for a year, and then admitted. There may well be other standards. During our time, I know a number of my friends went to different big schools in Bombay, Delhi, Madras. And a number of them secured admission from the 'Assam quota'. I am not sure if these still exist. But needless to say, most of these kids who did get in thru a state quota, either knew someone at Dispur or had connections within Assam. On top of all this is this news that the IITs cannot always fill up. Some of the seats in SC/ST cannot be released to other categories, but rolled over, or alternatives the IITs cannot find the 'qualified candidates'. http://www.studyplaces.com/blog/not-enough-qualified-students-fill-reserved-seats-1-100-iit-quota-seats-lie-vacant Reservations are good in principle, but in India these things have a way of doing more harm than good. The other issue, which you brought up: * Admit only those who can demonstrate engineering aptitude for the field they opt for, in addition to the merit measured by test scores. Others can always go to institutions better suited for their personal needs, thus making room for the truly technically oriented. In spite of Well, this is from the TOI, today (see link below. Aptitude test to replace prelims in civil services exam Read more: Aptitude test to replace prelims in civil services exam - India - The Times of Indiahttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Aptitude-test-to-replace-prelims-in-civil-services-exam/articleshow/6439791.cms#ixzz0xjszDiJw http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Aptitude-test-to-replace-prelims-in-civil-services-exam/articleshow/6439791.cms#ixzz0xjszDiJw Not sure if this applies to IITs - but the see to have read your message :-) On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: The following was my response to a private e-mail regarding IITs' admission policies being challenged for not being merit-based enough. First scroll down to read the original post. cm Begin forwarded message: From: Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com Date: August 25, 2010 9:48:34 AM CDT Subject: Re: It is everywhere.Image of IIT-tarnished? Greetings ***. Thanks for including me in this private mailing list. I hope recipients of my response here will excuse me for invading their privacy. Ordinarily I would not have done that, but I had an interest this particular subject and banking on your knowledge of your circle of friends' interests, figured they may be interested in my two bits as well . Some of you in this list I know are IIT-KGP (or other IIT )graduates, as I was too ( KGP, Arch. 68). Actually I was the third of three successive siblings who went to IIT-KGP. Two of my elder brothers studied electronics engineering and I did architecture. I have no idea what the acceptance criteria were , way back in 1963 when I entered IIT-KGP or earlier. Or for that matter later. I know I got in by the skin of my teeth :-). I came from what used to be known as the Pre-University course in Science, a post high-school, one year junior college course at Cotton College, Guwahati ( barely 6 months in reality), which was way below par in its curriculum, compared to say St. Xaviers' Coillege or Southpoint School or Calcutta Boys' School from Kolkata and other such preparatory schools and colleges from elsewhere in India whose grads. dominated the roster of accepted students. They also got the choicest disciplines of engineering, like Electronics, Mechanical, Electrical, Chemical and so
[Assam] OF NO ACCORD - Telegraph, Calcutta
This is from the Opinion section of the Telegraph, Calcutta __ OF NO ACCORD Who is an Assamese? A government-appointed committee that has been working on it apparently for nearly ten years promises finally to offer an answer by October. The search for an answer, however, began, at least on paper, in August, 1985, when New Delhi signed the Assam accord to end the six-year-long agitation by the All Assam Students’ Union. Today, few Assamese are in a mood to celebrate the 25th anniversary of what then was described as a historic accord. The Assamese people’s disappointment with the accord is easy to understand. The AASU’s ‘anti-foreigners’ agitation was sparked off by a fear that the ethnic Assamese would lose their territorial identity and culture in the face of an unending wave of Bangladeshis infiltrating the state. The fear unleashed a long spell of violence, which culminated in the horror of the Nellie massacre. The accord not only brought peace back to Assam but also raised hopes that the Assamese would no longer have to live in their own state in constant fear of being swamped by illegal settlers from across the international border. Clearly, that hope has been dashed. The Assamese people feel they have been let down by successive governments in New Delhi and Dispur. Assam’s fear should also be India’s concern, especially in these times of trans-border terrorism. Unfortunately, governments tend to see the problem only as a matter of political expediency. If the identification and deportation of ‘foreigners’ in Assam did not get off the ground, it was only partly because of the inadequacy of the Illegal Migrants (Determination by Tribunals) Act, which the Supreme Court struck down, or the lack of judges for the tribunals. The more important reason was absence of political will. The illegal settlers in Assam have become such a large vote bank that some parties simply cannot do without them. The issue of the Assamese identity and the state’s politics will continue to be linked to the question of foreigners in the state. That the indigenous Assamese people may face this threat to their identity had been predicted by both British and Indian administrators for over a century. But using the issue merely for electoral politics is not going to solve the problem. An official definition of their identity may mean nothing to the Assamese unless their fear of losing it is addressed. It is time for a new deal to heal Assam’s old wound. [image: Top]http://telegraphindia.com/1100825/jsp/opinion/story_12850067.jsp#top ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] University Ranking for the World
Actually IIT Bombay is ranked 30th under Enineering and IT, with a subject score of 46.7 (out of a 100), Delhi comes a bit lower, and before UT Austin. * http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-best-universities/2010/02/25/worlds-best-universities-engineering-and-it.html * :-) On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Dilip Deka dilipd...@yahoo.com wrote: I just got done looking at the best 400 universities in the world. I didn't see my Indian alma mater's name there. So I went to the universities in In Asia. I saw IIT Delhi and IIT Mumbai there in somewhat low ranking. I was under the impression that IITs were ranked way way high. I guess it is all hype! http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-best-universities/2010/02/25/worlds-best-universities-asian-and-middle-eastern.html ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] The Naxal/Maoist Movement, Part 2?
I too, am not too familiar with the term, but in this context (as it could well apply to me) it means unnecessary arguments, or arguments for arguments sake, or arguing just for the heck of it. :-). But there is a reasoning (even in this crazed mind of mine): Why would this question of 'plugged news' not come up with other opposing news? btw: here are some links of rapes by Maoists on their own cadres - one of them is from March this year. Different newspapers, different times - all of them bought, loaded? I don't know. http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfm?forum=2ThreadID=23458 http://news.oneindia.in/2010/03/05/maoists-shoot-girl-for-filing-rape-case.html http://www.deccanchronicle.com/national/maoists-rape-teen-who-quit-068 Uttam - this not about you or me suspecting the sources of news - but, we all know, 'manufactured news' is becoming quite common these days. And this makes us all susitible to pick choose the news we want to believe, and suspect the others as being manufactured. Unless it is quite blatant like MMS is a Naxal (as you put it). I am in a bit of a rush - but will attempt to respond to all, later this evening -- Ram da On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: I am not familiar with the term 'koot-torko', but in this context, could it be disingenuous arguments :-)? On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:52 AM, uttam borthakur wrote: Ram Da, I thought I was weighing a sort of balanced view, when I pointed out two possibilities: that the rape news was either plugged or may be wholly/ partially true. But you seem to have told me that I should take only one view.: that rape news is true. While the report on Supreme Court judgment reported in the TOI can be verified from the records of the Court and reports of the cases used for precedents; you perhaps cannot verify the authenticity of a reporter alleging rape by Kishanji or his camp followers. And if you are not too biased, you surely know what 'plugging' is in journalistic term, as I remember learning the term long ago from the notorious novel The Fountainhead in my teens. Does that mean each and every item in a news paper has to be 'plugged'? You simply cannot report that MMS has become a Naxal today; but you may always report that from a reliable source you have learnt that there is going to be a cabinet reshuffle. The first one would make you lose credibility, which a paper like TOI cannot afford; and the second it can always report without losing credibility, as it is not verifiable. In Assam, at this moment, NEWSLIVE owned by Himanta Biswa Sarma has to report Okhil Gogoi's meetings; but it also publishes hearsay that everyone speaking about Sri Gogoi having sold his soul to Himanta Biswa Sarma for a sum of Rs.2 crores, which is not verifiable. Why are you snaring me into a debate that takes us away from the core issues? Your second remark is also full of holes. Yes, Kishanji may not hold a court of inquiry against himself; that is why I said that if the Naxals/ Maoists fail to bring the guilty (whoever it is) to book, then they will lose support base in no time. Where did I go wrong? What new dimension have you added to what I said, but you are giving an impression that I had told something childish. It has taken 23 years to reach the Supreme Court a 'question' of compensation to displaced people, who had been displaced by the Government, that should have been settled by the Government, which claims to represent the people in a democracy.Except one with blinkers shall spread the angelic message around that look, look, it may be justice delayed, but not justice denied; the beauty of the Indian judiciary that still works in this thriving democracy. Ram Sarangapani assamrs at gmail.com Tue Aug 24 09:35:04 IST 2010Previous message: [Assam] The Naxal/Maoist Movement, Part 2?Next message: [Assam] I am not opposed to talks: ULFA leaderMessages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]Dear Uttam, There may be two possibilities. (1) The story is state propaganda and (2) The story may be true, partially or wholly. If it is a propaganda, Ah, yes. I had plum forgotten about that distinct possibility about the TOI making this whole thing (no doubt egged on by the state machinery). So, Uttam, what about the other stories (from the TOI)? Should we discount them...? I think, I'll just cherry pick. That suits me quite well. If it is true, partially or wholly, then the Naxals/ Maoists would lose support if those guilty of the crimes are not brought to books and awarded exemplary punishments either by their own courts, The problem, Uttam, is that (according to the story), it is the leaders who are the ones committing the rapes. I am not really sure they will be really gung ho on some kind of court (to punish the guilty). BTW: 2000 farmers from Chattisgarh in the meanwhile have
Re: [Assam] The Naxal/Maoist Movement, Part 2?
That is why, MY approach has always been to examine the fundamental principles, not the news or reports that we can never be sure of. Excellent, C'da. So, what conclusions did you come up with regarding the rape allegations as reported in the TOI? --Ram On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Uttam - this not about you or me suspecting the sources of news - but, we all know, 'manufactured news' is becoming quite common these days. And this makes us all susitible to pick choose the news we want to believe, and suspect the others as being manufactured. Unless it is quite blatant like MMS is a Naxal (as you put it). There are different kinds of NEWS Ram. Some we can reasonably expect to be accurate or nearly accurate. There are other types of news that we can NEVER be sure of. That is why, MY approach has always been to examine the fundamental principles, not the news or reports that we can never be sure of. On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: I too, am not too familiar with the term, but in this context (as it could well apply to me) it means unnecessary arguments, or arguments for arguments sake, or arguing just for the heck of it. :-). But there is a reasoning (even in this crazed mind of mine): Why would this question of 'plugged news' not come up with other opposing news? btw: here are some links of rapes by Maoists on their own cadres - one of them is from March this year. Different newspapers, different times - all of them bought, loaded? I don't know. http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfm?forum=2ThreadID=23458 http://news.oneindia.in/2010/03/05/maoists-shoot-girl-for-filing-rape-case.html http://www.deccanchronicle.com/national/maoists-rape-teen-who-quit-068 Uttam - this not about you or me suspecting the sources of news - but, we all know, 'manufactured news' is becoming quite common these days. And this makes us all susitible to pick choose the news we want to believe, and suspect the others as being manufactured. Unless it is quite blatant like MMS is a Naxal (as you put it). I am in a bit of a rush - but will attempt to respond to all, later this evening -- Ram da On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: I am not familiar with the term 'koot-torko', but in this context, could it be disingenuous arguments :-)? On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:52 AM, uttam borthakur wrote: Ram Da, I thought I was weighing a sort of balanced view, when I pointed out two possibilities: that the rape news was either plugged or may be wholly/ partially true. But you seem to have told me that I should take only one view.: that rape news is true. While the report on Supreme Court judgment reported in the TOI can be verified from the records of the Court and reports of the cases used for precedents; you perhaps cannot verify the authenticity of a reporter alleging rape by Kishanji or his camp followers. And if you are not too biased, you surely know what 'plugging' is in journalistic term, as I remember learning the term long ago from the notorious novel The Fountainhead in my teens. Does that mean each and every item in a news paper has to be 'plugged'? You simply cannot report that MMS has become a Naxal today; but you may always report that from a reliable source you have learnt that there is going to be a cabinet reshuffle. The first one would make you lose credibility, which a paper like TOI cannot afford; and the second it can always report without losing credibility, as it is not verifiable. In Assam, at this moment, NEWSLIVE owned by Himanta Biswa Sarma has to report Okhil Gogoi's meetings; but it also publishes hearsay that everyone speaking about Sri Gogoi having sold his soul to Himanta Biswa Sarma for a sum of Rs.2 crores, which is not verifiable. Why are you snaring me into a debate that takes us away from the core issues? Your second remark is also full of holes. Yes, Kishanji may not hold a court of inquiry against himself; that is why I said that if the Naxals/ Maoists fail to bring the guilty (whoever it is) to book, then they will lose support base in no time. Where did I go wrong? What new dimension have you added to what I said, but you are giving an impression that I had told something childish. It has taken 23 years to reach the Supreme Court a 'question' of compensation to displaced people, who had been displaced by the Government, that should have been settled by the Government, which claims to represent the people in a democracy.Except one with blinkers shall spread the angelic message around that look, look, it may be justice delayed, but not justice denied; the beauty of the Indian judiciary that still works in this thriving democracy. Ram Sarangapani assamrs
Re: [Assam] The Naxal/Maoist Movement, Part 2?
No, C'da, you misunderstood. All I was asking was, if after you had vetted this news out, did you find it to be accurate or not. I was not going into the reasons, root cause etc, and where one might justice. Just whether the news was accurate, since you had an approach has always been to examine the fundamental principles, not the news or reports that we can never be sure of. :-) --Ram On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: So, what conclusions did you come up with regarding the rape allegations as reported in the TOI? I don't NEED to draw conclusions from it. It is quite obvious to me WHY the Naxal movement is there. Nothing that has happened to Uma ( or not) or any other such person/persons, will anyway, make it go away. If the report was accurate, there will be no justice found for her. Rebellions and insurgencies are NOT places where one goes seeking uniform or any justice. Justice must be SOUGHT and FOUND in what is purported to be the 'democratic state' . And IF the report was trumped up or fabricated, it would be yet another attempt by the dysfunctional state and its willing or unwitting accomplices in spreading propaganda to counter the rebels' spread. On Aug 24, 2010, at 12:08 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: That is why, MY approach has always been to examine the fundamental principles, not the news or reports that we can never be sure of. Excellent, C'da. So, what conclusions did you come up with regarding the rape allegations as reported in the TOI? --Ram On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Uttam - this not about you or me suspecting the sources of news - but, we all know, 'manufactured news' is becoming quite common these days. And this makes us all susitible to pick choose the news we want to believe, and suspect the others as being manufactured. Unless it is quite blatant like MMS is a Naxal (as you put it). There are different kinds of NEWS Ram. Some we can reasonably expect to be accurate or nearly accurate. There are other types of news that we can NEVER be sure of. That is why, MY approach has always been to examine the fundamental principles, not the news or reports that we can never be sure of. On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: I too, am not too familiar with the term, but in this context (as it could well apply to me) it means unnecessary arguments, or arguments for arguments sake, or arguing just for the heck of it. :-). But there is a reasoning (even in this crazed mind of mine): Why would this question of 'plugged news' not come up with other opposing news? btw: here are some links of rapes by Maoists on their own cadres - one of them is from March this year. Different newspapers, different times - all of them bought, loaded? I don't know. http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfm?forum=2ThreadID=23458 http://news.oneindia.in/2010/03/05/maoists-shoot-girl-for-filing-rape-case.html http://www.deccanchronicle.com/national/maoists-rape-teen-who-quit-068 Uttam - this not about you or me suspecting the sources of news - but, we all know, 'manufactured news' is becoming quite common these days. And this makes us all susitible to pick choose the news we want to believe, and suspect the others as being manufactured. Unless it is quite blatant like MMS is a Naxal (as you put it). I am in a bit of a rush - but will attempt to respond to all, later this evening -- Ram da On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: I am not familiar with the term 'koot-torko', but in this context, could it be disingenuous arguments :-)? On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:52 AM, uttam borthakur wrote: Ram Da, I thought I was weighing a sort of balanced view, when I pointed out two possibilities: that the rape news was either plugged or may be wholly/ partially true. But you seem to have told me that I should take only one view.: that rape news is true. While the report on Supreme Court judgment reported in the TOI can be verified from the records of the Court and reports of the cases used for precedents; you perhaps cannot verify the authenticity of a reporter alleging rape by Kishanji or his camp followers. And if you are not too biased, you surely know what 'plugging' is in journalistic term, as I remember learning the term long ago from the notorious novel The Fountainhead in my teens. Does that mean each and every item in a news paper has to be 'plugged'? You simply cannot report that MMS has become a Naxal today; but you may always report that from a reliable source you have learnt that there is going to be a cabinet reshuffle. The first one would make you lose credibility, which a paper like
Re: [Assam] The Naxal/Maoist Movement, Part 2?
Uttam, It is appalling that the Govt. of any country would employ children in any conflict. If any of this is true, it is just rank bad, and it does not matter one iota whether or nor Maoists/Naxals also employ children. This does not mean that Maoists/Naxals ought to held to some lower standard ie. 'the Govt. does it too... ' argument. Truth be told, no one, Govt., the Naxals or any other terror group should be aware that there some socially expected limits. --Ram da F B 24/7/365 :-) _ On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 9:56 PM, uttam borthakur uttambortha...@yahoo.co.in wrote: Dear Dilip Da, I was not aware that even the government and its collaborators (Salwa Judum) were using children in the conflict without exit options. It is expected that any pro-people organisation should abide by the universally accepted norms. So, the Naxalites/ Maoists are expected to do so since their claim is such. But it is clearly understood that in an outfit commandeered by guns, and especially one facing, to quote Chandan Da: the 3rd largest armed forces in the world, our expectations are dashed, as such organisations, as they are, and the reality they are in, may not be able to dispense with the necessity of extra hands and heads, however inchoate . There would be arguments that even the mass democratic movements in those places are perforce armed in nature due to extreme repression of any dissent by the state and big business interests. And I suspect that though Mao Tse Tung insisted on paramountcy of mass movements supported by people's militia, it had always been the other way round, even in his times, leading to infantile disorders. But the state agencies, especially representing Indian democracy, have done worse, so it seems, as they are signatories to so many charters trying to protect human rights. X Dilip Deka dilipdeka at yahoo.com Wed Aug 25 01:33:40 IST 2010 Previous message: [Assam] The Naxal/Maoist Movement, Part 2? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] How about this article from Human Rights Watch website? Is it credible? HRW is watching out for the children of Chattisgarh who become pawns between Naxalites and the Police Force. The article is long. So I posted the link below. www.hrw.org/en/node/75148/section/8 Uttam Kumar Borthakur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Indian Bangladeshi
Thanks Uttam for fwding this? Some quick questions? What do you think of this column? and Why the term 'Indian Bangladeshi' ? Do you mean to say that the term Bangladeshi is synonymous to, say, 'illegal' :-) On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 5:02 AM, uttam borthakur uttambortha...@yahoo.co.in wrote: http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/feb/19us.htm India [ Images ] may have taken giant strides in every possible sphere of life across the world, but there are things that come as real blot to its global image. Quoting a US Department of Homeland Security report, mercurynews reports that Indians are the fastest-growing group of illegal immigrants in the United States. The report says there are 2,70,000 unauthorized Indians in the United States - a 125 percent jump since 2000, the largest percentage increase of any nation with more than 100,000 illegal immigrants in that country. The report says though the number of Indian immigrants is low when compared to people from Mexico, the Indian context is appalling as the illegal immigrants mostly consist high-skilled workers. Illegal immigrants from other countries are mostly low-skilled workers. Mercurynews, in its report, also says if the trend continues India will only trail only Mexico, El Salvador and Guatemala in illegal immigration. The report quoting experts says virtually all immigrants enter the US legally and then violate the visa terms, thus becomimg illegal immigrants. How do you get in? You come across the border, or you arrive here with a visa, Lindsay Lowell, policy director for the Institute for the Study of International Migration at Georgetown University told Mercurynews. Indians aren't going to be walking across the border like Mexicans, he said. Federal officials calculated the number of illegal immigrants by using census estimates of the total number of immigrants from individual countries, compiling the total number of legal immigrants using federal immigration and naturalization records, and then subtracting the number of legal residents from the total immigrant population to determine the number of undocumented people, the report said. Asked by Mercurynews about the number of illegal Indians in Silicon Valley, Banjit Singh, an Indian-born taxi driver, said, Here, there is a little bit. But you go to another city or state, like Los Angeles or New York, there are many illegal people. Local immigration lawyers say that particularly among Indians, the ups and downs of Silicon Valley's economy since 2001 are one reason why Indians have fallen out of legal status. Most are bachelors; the way they get here is they have a job, Gabriel Jack, a San Jose immigration lawyer, said of many of his Indian clients. They come here as professionals, most often in the H-1B program, and given the fluctuations of Silicon Valley, the business climate, these guys lose their jobs. They get laid off or they wager their hands on a start-up coming in, Jack said. The problem with the H-1B program is, you can't have any significant time between jobs without falling out of legal status. Indians made up 44 percent of H-1B applicants in the 2005-06 fiscal year, five times the number from second-place China, the report says. The report says another source is relatives from India who arrive for a visit on a tourist visa and never go home. America is a very attractive country; everybody who comes here wants to stay, said Shah Peerally, a Silicon Valley immigration lawyer. I can tell you right now, there are nearly 1 billion people in India, of which maybe 800 million want to come here. The United States deported close to 500 Indians a year in recent years, another expert tells Mecurynews. Unless Congress reforms the immigration system we are going to see this high-skilled, illegal workforce emerging, said Frank D. Bean, director of the Immigration Research Center at the University of California-Irvine. Uttam Kumar Borthakur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Indian Bangladeshi
Dear Uttam Sushanta, Lets analyze this a bit. It is a geographical truth that people from less developed areas will migrate to more developed areas (Refer C.E.M. Joad). It is also a fact of life that countries will have borders. In today's world, borders are meant to keep selected people out, and NOT meant to keep the locals in (like erstwhile East Germany/Soviet bloc). This idea of no world border is something that has taken some currency in the last few years. There are two sides to this: No borders for people/groups wanting to help others (like in a flood or earthquake) - where doctors without borders, medical/emergency/food aid should be able to go in without any obstacles. Foreign aid has been difficult to get into countries like Ethiopia and even in Pakistan. The other part is people wanting to immigrate into another country for bettering their lives. Countries will normally accept people who are needed, or on political, humanitarian grounds. Countries also assess how both legal and illegal immigration affects their own economy, resources etc. Today, a new dimension is added. There are those who will immigrate (legally and illegally ) to other countries, just to do them harm. Those who advocate for 'no world border' might want to go a step further. Why have individual homes or property? Why not socialize everything and make it all for everyone? How about languages culture? Why do we need to worry about such frivolities? The thing called 'Me', 'Mine', 'Myself' has a meaning to individualism. Normally, the world order today dictates that countries have borders, and countries will often go the extra step to help a fellow country when needed. Otherwise, countries will wind up like the proverbial Arab, who out of kindness, let his camel to keep is nose in the tent. Soon, of course, the camel was inside, and the Arab outside.:-) The question here is of the limits to immigration (both legal and illegal), and the tolerance limits of countries. The US, btw, is more welcoming, and has more liberal policy than India and many other countries. On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Sushanta Kar pragyan.ts...@gmail.comwrote: A good Post Uttamda! Thank You for sharing. Borders are not for poor and layman.This report once again proved it Immigrants are chipest labor worldwide. World wide capitalist use them and through out. . Here I'm forwarding a link which shows that already a movement is taking shape worldwide which want a borderless world. :http://www.noborder.org/ If all of us is Human being we do we need Borders? Sushanta Kar On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 6:53 PM, uttam borthakur uttambortha...@yahoo.co.in wrote: Dear Ram Da: What I can think of it, apart from the fact that history of homo sapiens from Homo Habilis, Homo Erectus to present day is the history of migration. Only difference is that, at that time there was no national barriers. I love poems and the suggestive content thereof. So, I continued the old thread that suggests a problem keeping our mind busy. That's about it. Ram Sarangapani assamrs at gmail.com Mon Aug 23 17:49:27 IST 2010 Previous message: [Assam] Indian Bangladeshi Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Thanks Uttam for fwding this? Some quick questions? What do you think of this column? and Why the term 'Indian Bangladeshi' ? Do you mean to say that the term Bangladeshi is synonymous to, say, 'illegal' :-) Uttam Kumar Borthakur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা রবীন্দ্রনাথ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] The Naxal/Maoist Movement, Part 2?
And we were led to believe that this movement (the Naxal/Maoist) was a fight against the social injustices and radical changes.Oh Well! Read on From one of our most forwarded source TOI :-) ___ *Raped repeatedly, Naxal leader quits Red ranks* http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Raped-repeatedly-Naxal-leader-quits-Red-ranks/articleshow/6423200.cms Somewhere On The Bengal-Jharkhand Border: The eerie calm in the dense sal forest is deafening. Walking along a snaking dirt track, a clear patch appears. Sitting on a rock, hidden by thick, emerald green foliage, is the diminutive figure of a woman, a gamchha (thin towel) covering her head. Her blue salwar-kameez meld with the surroundings. Her eyes dart around at the slightest hint of sound. Shobha Mandi, alias Uma, alias Shikha, gives a searching look and then smiles. The 23-year-old CPI-Maoist Jhargram area commander says she was expecting us. From commanding 25-30 armed Maoist squad members, Umahttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Umaturned a fugitive four months ago. She fled her command post on the plea of seeing a doctor. She hid with her aunt for a short while; and now she says she wants the world to know her story. She wants to surrender and is likely to give up Naxalism on August 26. Why did she decide to shed her battle fatigues seven years after she joined the Naxals? They committed injustices against which they claimed they were fighting, said Uma. As a recruit, I protested against the habits of some leaders in the presence of Kishanji. Nobody liked it. The leaders instructed the squad members not to speak to me. I was isolated and warned of dire consequences if I protested, she said. What didn't she like about the leaders? They rape, she shot back, eyes flashing with rage. After about a year of joining Naxals, I was put on night-long sentry duty at a forest camp in Jharkhand. Suddenly, out of the dark, Bikash (now, head of the state military commission) came up and asked me for water. As I turned to fetch it, he grabbed me and tried to do 'kharap kaaj' (indecent acts). When she objected, Bikash threatened to strangle her. After forcing her into submission, Bikash raped her, she said. She was 17 then. He warned me against telling anyone about this. But, I told Akash (Kishanji's confidant and a state committee member). He said he would look into it but did nothing. In fact, Akash's wife, Anu, lives with Kishanji, Uma said. Most women recruits are exploited by senior Maoists. Senior women leaders, too, have multiple sexual partners, Uma said. If a member gets pregnant, she has no choice but to abort: A child is seen as a burden that hampers the agility of guerrillas. Uma has heard tales of brutalization of other women Naxals, too. Seema (then a recruit) told me that Akash raped her as well. Rahul (alias Ranjit Pal) raped Belpahari squad commander Madan Mahato's wife, Jaba. In this case, the party punished Rahul, who is a key weapons trainer at Maoist camps. He was removed from the regional committee for three months, said Uma. State committee secretary Sudip Chongdar, alias Goutam, was also punished for similar acts, she said, and transferred to Jharkhand's West Singbhum district. Maoistshttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Maoistsdivide time between forest camps and hideouts in villages. Villagers can't refuse shelter to gun-toting Maoists. Also, they must keep all night vigil to alert them against police raids. When Sudip took shelter in villages, he raped women in their homes. They were too scared to protest, said Uma. Many of her senior leaders exploited her sexually. One day, says Uma, Kamal Maity, who is a Bengal-Jharkhand-Orissa regional committee member, came to her rescue. At a meeting attended by Kishanjihttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Kishanjiand other top Maoists, Kamal proposed a relationship with Uma. The leaders agreed. After Jaba's incident, I learnt that a woman cadre is protected against sexual exploitation only if she is with a senior leader, she said. That was a turning point and she rose steadily in Naxal ranks. Uma is on the police's most wanted list. She is suspected to have planned and executed a series of attacks, including the massacre of 24 EFR jawans in Silda (February 2010); a raid on Sankrail policehttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Sankrail%20policestation in which two policemen were killed and an officer abducted (October 2009). She is also one of the suspects in Jharkhand MPhttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Jharkhand%20MPSunil Mahato's murder in 2007. She mentored PCPA http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=PCPAmembers, including Bapi Mahato who is in jail for the Jnaneswari http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Jnaneswaritrain sabotage. Last year, when the joint central and state forces advanced into Lalgarh
Re: [Assam] The Naxal/Maoist Movement, Part 2?
*** Oh well indeed! I tell ya Ram, YOUR intuitions were amazing. Well, I've been reading here and other places how this Naxal movement was the next best thing after sliced bread, I was shocked when I read this news. :-) You knew, right off the bat, what these folks were, didn't you? But, lest it gets brushed under the carpet, these unfortunate women who joined the 'movement' did pay a heavy price - and all from the same people, the saviors, whom they trusted, sought help, and redress ills. As I always say, give credit where it is due. Yoiu Ram, knew it, and some of us were fools, to have thought otherwise. Well, C'da, I just forwarded the writeup - from none other than the TOI (I didn't make it up). But, you have to agree, the news was shocking - and it wasn't just one victim, there were many others. I am sure this kind of thing happens at other places too, but this ain't good PR for the Maoist/Naxal group. While the family struggled, some party members offered help. They gave my father some money and told me to join them. They said I could leave if I didn't like working with them, said Uma. The prospect of a job spurred her. Even though the above compromises your theorem Ram, I don't have any theories - but if I did, the above wouldn't compromise anything. The 'Party' (you may have missed that) she refers to is the Naxal/Maoist party, who lied to her, gave her family some money, promised her a job. Some job! It is not important what drives someone to take up arms against the world's third largest army. It is important to find out the reasons why someone would take up such drastic measures. But it is equally important to bring the naxal/maoist 'movemnet' a notch or two. There is a huge credibility gap here. IMHO, even insurgents, terrorists, and freedom fighters ought to be held to standards of common human values - well unless, they ought to be summarily excused because they have taken up arms against the 3rd largest army:-) --Ram On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: And we were led to believe that this movement (the Naxal/Maoist) was a fight against the social injustices and radical changes.Oh Well! Oh well indeed! I tell ya Ram, YOUR intuitions were amazing. You knew, right off the bat, what these folks were, didn't you? And those of us who speculated that these are people who , having been let down by desi-demokrtasy, took to Maoism, to survive, look real bad now. Leaves us folks who speculated on the Naxals' survival instinct d for taking to arms, look pretty bad, don't they? As I always say, give credit where it is due. Yoiu Ram, knew it, and some of us were fools, to have thought otherwise. My father, Jamadar Mandi, was an alcoholic suffering from tuberculosis. There was no money to buy him medicines. We sold our land and also borrowed money, Uma said. While the family struggled, some party members offered help. They gave my father some money and told me to join them. They said I could leave if I didn't like working with them, said Uma. The prospect of a job spurred her. Even though the above compromises your theorem Ram, I won't give it much credit, now that we know what we do. It is not important what drives someone to take up arms against the world's third largest army. What matters is what their instincts are, how they treat their women, how lawless, how devoid of ordinary human and humane ethics they are. Or is it :-)? On Aug 23, 2010, at 3:37 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: And we were led to believe that this movement (the Naxal/Maoist) was a fight against the social injustices and radical changes.Oh Well! Read on From one of our most forwarded source TOI :-) ___ *Raped repeatedly, Naxal leader quits Red ranks* http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Raped-repeatedly-Naxal-leader-quits-Red-ranks/articleshow/6423200.cms Somewhere On The Bengal-Jharkhand Border: The eerie calm in the dense sal forest is deafening. Walking along a snaking dirt track, a clear patch appears. Sitting on a rock, hidden by thick, emerald green foliage, is the diminutive figure of a woman, a gamchha (thin towel) covering her head. Her blue salwar-kameez meld with the surroundings. Her eyes dart around at the slightest hint of sound. Shobha Mandi, alias Uma, alias Shikha, gives a searching look and then smiles. The 23-year-old CPI-Maoist Jhargram area commander says she was expecting us. From commanding 25-30 armed Maoist squad members, Umahttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Umaturned a fugitive four months ago. She fled her command post on the plea of seeing a doctor. She hid with her aunt for a short while; and now she says she wants the world to know her story. She wants to surrender and is likely to give up Naxalism on August 26. Why did she decide to shed her battle
Re: [Assam] The Naxal/Maoist Movement, Part 2?
Dear Uttam, There may be two possibilities. (1) The story is state propaganda and (2) The story may be true, partially or wholly. If it is a propaganda, Ah, yes. I had plum forgotten about that distinct possibility about the TOI making this whole thing (no doubt egged on by the state machinery). So, Uttam, what about the other stories (from the TOI)? Should we discount them...? I think, I'll just cherry pick. That suits me quite well. If it is true, partially or wholly, then the Naxals/ Maoists would lose support if those guilty of the crimes are not brought to books and awarded exemplary punishments either by their own courts, The problem, Uttam, is that (according to the story), it is the leaders who are the ones committing the rapes. I am not really sure they will be really gung ho on some kind of court (to punish the guilty). BTW: 2000 farmers from Chattisgarh in the meanwhile have petitioned the President asking for permission to commit suicide, because of hunger. Hunger and poverty are real issues, and I certainly think these have to be addressed in all seriousness. But tell me something, why would potential suiciders (as GW Bush loved to say) want to take the permission from anyone. If the president gave her assent, would they go ahead? Mass suicides are organized, and quite possibly lead by some political hack. But I do believe there are genuine cases, which may be in the 100s at least, and do need governmental intervention. --Ram da On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 10:31 PM, uttam borthakur uttambortha...@yahoo.co.in wrote: Ram Da, There may be two possibilities. (1) The story is state propaganda and (2) The story may be true, partially or wholly. If it is a propaganda, we cannot know whether it is a propaganda, then there is nothing to say, as warring sides do it by means fair or foul. If it is true, partially or wholly, then the Naxals/ Maoists would lose support if those guilty of the crimes are not brought to books and awarded exemplary punishments either by their own courts, if any, or courts in which you would like to repose faith. BTW: 2000 farmers from Chattisgarh in the meanwhile have petitioned the President asking for permission to commit suicide, because of hunger. You cannot discount the possibility that driven by hunger, some people may join the ranks of Maoists/ Naxals and continue to support them, in spite of some rapes. After all, you and I may not be able to appreciate the pain of chronic hunger. Ram Sarangapani assamrs at gmail.com Tue Aug 24 02:07:56 IST 2010Previous message: [Assam] for NRAs in MontrealNext message: [Assam] Fw: Two Moons on 27th August 2010Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]And we were led to believe that this movement (the Naxal/Maoist) was a fight against the social injustices and radical changes.Oh Well! Read on From one of our most forwarded source TOI :-) ___ *Raped repeatedly, Naxal leader quits Red ranks* http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Raped-repeatedly-Naxal-leader-quits-Red-ranks/articleshow/6423200.cms Somewhere On The Bengal-Jharkhand Border: The eerie calm in the dense sal forest is deafening. Walking along a snaking dirt track, a clear patch appears. Sitting on a rock, hidden by thick, emerald green foliage, is the diminutive figure of a woman, a gamchha (thin towel) covering her head. Her blue salwar-kameez meld with the surroundings. Her eyes dart around at the slightest hint of sound. Shobha Mandi, alias Uma, alias Shikha, gives a searching look and then smiles. The 23-year-old CPI-Maoist Jhargram area commander says she was expecting us. From commanding 25-30 armed Maoist squad members, Umahttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Umaturned a fugitive four months ago. She fled her command post on the plea of seeing a doctor. She hid with her aunt for a short while; and now she says she wants the world to know her story. She wants to surrender and is likely to give up Naxalism on August 26. Why did she decide to shed her battle fatigues seven years after she joined the Naxals? They committed injustices against which they claimed they were fighting, said Uma. As a recruit, I protested against the habits of some leaders in the presence of Kishanji. Nobody liked it. The leaders instructed the squad members not to speak to me. I was isolated and warned of dire consequences if I protested, she said. What didn't she like about the leaders? They rape, she shot back, eyes flashing with rage. After about a year of joining Naxals, I was put on night-long sentry duty at a forest camp in Jharkhand. Suddenly, out of the dark, Bikash (now, head of the state military commission) came up and asked me for water. As I turned to fetch it, he grabbed me and tried to do 'kharap kaaj' (indecent acts). When she objected, Bikash threatened to strangle her. After forcing her into submission
Re: [Assam] The Naxal/Maoist Movement, Part 2? - Response III
, the Bench took assistance from Solicitor General Gopal Subramaniam and counsel Janaranjan Das to frame a scheme. Under the scheme, the Centre being the owner of Mahanadi Coalfields Ltd would determine and pay the compensation to the erstwhile landowners. The SC appointed a former judge of the Orissa HC, Justice A K Pasricha, as chairman of a commission to prepare a report on the land acquired within four months and submit a report to the apex court. dhananjay.mahapa...@timesgroup.com Read more: Skewed growth to blame for rise of Naxals: SC - India - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Skewed-growth-to-blame-for-rise-of-Naxals-SC/articleshow/6193052.cms#ixzz0xUOShVbQ On Aug 23, 2010, at 3:37 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: And we were led to believe that this movement (the Naxal/Maoist) was a fight against the social injustices and radical changes.Oh Well! Read on From one of our most forwarded source TOI :-) ___ *Raped repeatedly, Naxal leader quits Red ranks* http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Raped-repeatedly-Naxal-leader-quits-Red-ranks/articleshow/6423200.cms Somewhere On The Bengal-Jharkhand Border: The eerie calm in the dense sal forest is deafening. Walking along a snaking dirt track, a clear patch appears. Sitting on a rock, hidden by thick, emerald green foliage, is the diminutive figure of a woman, a gamchha (thin towel) covering her head. Her blue salwar-kameez meld with the surroundings. Her eyes dart around at the slightest hint of sound. Shobha Mandi, alias Uma, alias Shikha, gives a searching look and then smiles. The 23-year-old CPI-Maoist Jhargram area commander says she was expecting us. From commanding 25-30 armed Maoist squad members, Umahttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Umaturned a fugitive four months ago. She fled her command post on the plea of seeing a doctor. She hid with her aunt for a short while; and now she says she wants the world to know her story. She wants to surrender and is likely to give up Naxalism on August 26. Why did she decide to shed her battle fatigues seven years after she joined the Naxals? They committed injustices against which they claimed they were fighting, said Uma. As a recruit, I protested against the habits of some leaders in the presence of Kishanji. Nobody liked it. The leaders instructed the squad members not to speak to me. I was isolated and warned of dire consequences if I protested, she said. What didn't she like about the leaders? They rape, she shot back, eyes flashing with rage. After about a year of joining Naxals, I was put on night-long sentry duty at a forest camp in Jharkhand. Suddenly, out of the dark, Bikash (now, head of the state military commission) came up and asked me for water. As I turned to fetch it, he grabbed me and tried to do 'kharap kaaj' (indecent acts). When she objected, Bikash threatened to strangle her. After forcing her into submission, Bikash raped her, she said. She was 17 then. He warned me against telling anyone about this. But, I told Akash (Kishanji's confidant and a state committee member). He said he would look into it but did nothing. In fact, Akash's wife, Anu, lives with Kishanji, Uma said. Most women recruits are exploited by senior Maoists. Senior women leaders, too, have multiple sexual partners, Uma said. If a member gets pregnant, she has no choice but to abort: A child is seen as a burden that hampers the agility of guerrillas. Uma has heard tales of brutalization of other women Naxals, too. Seema (then a recruit) told me that Akash raped her as well. Rahul (alias Ranjit Pal) raped Belpahari squad commander Madan Mahato's wife, Jaba. In this case, the party punished Rahul, who is a key weapons trainer at Maoist camps. He was removed from the regional committee for three months, said Uma. State committee secretary Sudip Chongdar, alias Goutam, was also punished for similar acts, she said, and transferred to Jharkhand's West Singbhum district. Maoists http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Maoistsdivide time between forest camps and hideouts in villages. Villagers can't refuse shelter to gun-toting Maoists. Also, they must keep all night vigil to alert them against police raids. When Sudip took shelter in villages, he raped women in their homes. They were too scared to protest, said Uma. Many of her senior leaders exploited her sexually. One day, says Uma, Kamal Maity, who is a Bengal-Jharkhand-Orissa regional committee member, came to her rescue. At a meeting attended by Kishanjihttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/search?q=Kishanjiand other top Maoists, Kamal proposed a relationship with Uma. The leaders agreed. After Jaba's incident, I learnt that a woman cadre is protected against sexual exploitation
Re: [Assam] s the Assam Youth Really Concerned? - a Column in the Assam Sentinel
C'da, You are such a nice person Ram, you scare me :-). I have always maintained a B'deshi is a 'B'deshi, and India cannot have one policy for one kind and a different one for the other. The problem is whenever the illegal B'deshi problem is brought up, JUST like these MLAs wanting special treatment for 'Hindu B'deshis', there many other groups and individuals who try to paint any serious discussion on the subject as being anti-Muslim or some 'lungi kheda' drive. And that is unfortunate. This is about national policy matters, and not about the whims and desires of some political party or individuals. It is also about India protecting it's territorial integrity, and the GOI should just implement it's border control/immigration policy. If we had to go by yesterday's Sentinel editorial piece that you admired, Only certain parts, not all. Hopefully, forwarding doesn't mean a complete endorsement. Finally when students do that, taking to the streets and shutting things down, does it REALLY lead to any meaningful action, or for that matter any action at all? Pushing students for is merely yet another admission, except on the sly, that the government is dysfunctional, unresponsive, incapable. You might have missed it - but I did mention something about students as an aside. IMHO. The idea of involving students to galvanize political action is one of the worst things a state or country can do. Students just need to be in the classrooms. Involving students is passe at best, and these days, in most developed countries, students keep to the classrooms, and leave politics to politicians. But, look at the scenario in India - students are signatories to national accords, are treated like State representatives, are courted by politicians, and even journalists like Bikash Sarmah expect students to take to do something. Maybe, they are the last hopes of a stagnant and moribund society, and it needs students to rescue it from all kinds of problems. --Ram On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 8:23 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Neither group ought to be encouraged - specially by MLAs You are such a nice person Ram, you scare me :-). The only thing left now is about what they OUGHT to do. And if they don't do what they ought to, who should be the next line of defense? If we had to go by yesterday's Sentinel editorial piece that you admired, it would be the YOUTH, students! I didn't quite know how students do that, other than by taking to the streets or shutting things down. Do you? Finally when students do that, taking to the streets and shutting things down, does it REALLY lead to any meaningful action, or for that matter any action at all? Pushing students for is merely yet another admission, except on the sly, that the government is dysfunctional, unresponsive, incapable. On Aug 21, 2010, at 11:52 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hi Uttam, Don't know what the deal is, but to me illegal Hindu B'deshis are no different from illegal Muslim B'deshis. Neither group ought to be encouraged - specially by MLAs --Ram da On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 10:52 PM, uttam borthakur uttambortha...@yahoo.co.in wrote: Three MPs and two MLAs of the Assam Unit of BJP have lodged a demand to grant citizenship to Hindu-Bengalis migrating from Bangladesh. They are Ms. Bijoya Chakrabarty, Kabindra Purkayastha, Rajen Gohain, Mission Ranjan Das and Sushil Dutta. They have disclosed it in press meet on 21 August at New Delhi according to a report in Pratidin today. Uttam Kumar Borthakur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Orphan Drugs
something like Botox comes up. No doubt, here too 'search for profit' would be the mainstay of ensuring finance. But the fact remains that it creates some sort of level playing field for small communities affected by rare diseases and the rest of the people affected by abundant diseases. As an aside, it may be added that in India, the Constitution, makes room for concepts like 'reservation' 'autonomy' 'exemptions' etc. for certain categories of people with the declared goal of providing some sort of level playing field and also for protecting them from some misfortune, as groups. Though such measures may seem odious from an elitist and advantaged view-point, and has in fact led to gross abuse primarily due to the nature of the ruling polity in India, those measures by themselves, may not qualify for loathing, as an elitist view of the matter would suggest. P.S. To Ram Sarangapani Deepankar Medhi: This seems to be an incurable trait in me; I fail to see the benefits of of compartmentalization. Uttam Kumar Borthakur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] s the Assam Youth Really Concerned? - a Column in the Assam Sentinel
Hi Uttam, Don't know what the deal is, but to me illegal Hindu B'deshis are no different from illegal Muslim B'deshis. Neither group ought to be encouraged - specially by MLAs --Ram da On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 10:52 PM, uttam borthakur uttambortha...@yahoo.co.in wrote: Three MPs and two MLAs of the Assam Unit of BJP have lodged a demand to grant citizenship to Hindu-Bengalis migrating from Bangladesh. They are Ms. Bijoya Chakrabarty, Kabindra Purkayastha, Rajen Gohain, Mission Ranjan Das and Sushil Dutta. They have disclosed it in press meet on 21 August at New Delhi according to a report in Pratidin today. Uttam Kumar Borthakur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] s the Assam Youth Really Concerned? - a Column in the Assam Sentinel
Bikash Sarmah has given a good synopsis of this problem. Quite often (and in this net too), a demand or a desire to solve the illegal Bangladeshis problem in Assam is promptly cast as communal. This is unfortunate, Assamese Muslims or bonafide Bengali residents of Assam are equally affected by this problem, and it is in the OVERALL interest of Assam Assamese that this problem be solved, and soon. While Delhi has the responsibility of controlling and manning the Indo-Bangladesh border, it is paramount to recognize that the state and her people also have an active role. There a so many groups in Assam that are willing to make a concession here and a concession there for short term political or pecuniary gains. And then, there are the people - who are more than willing to employ illegal Bangladeshi help at the drop of a hat as they are cheaper (and well, they are there). The problem has not just become huge, but has grown tentacles, and legs, and has basically become monstrous. If I were a betting man, I would say that this problem will never be solved - politics in Assam and Delhi will for ever reap the various benefits of keeping this issue alive. Its a darn shame! --Ram ps: Maybe netters will discuss this with some gravitas, instead of attacking each other, putting down each other's personalities, backgrounds, and trying to show off they have all kinds of solutions up their sleeves for all kinds of problems. :-) :-) Is the Assam Youth Really Concerned? THE REALITY MIRROR By the Assam youth I do not mean the ‘never-aging’ student leader. I am also not obviously talking of the Bangladeshi youth in Assam awaiting a greater Bangladesh to happen, nor am I talking of the youth of the erstwhile East Bengal/ East Pakistan descent who may not find anything wrong with a greater living space for Bangladeshi nationals. I mean those who are sons of the soil, who are 25 and below, those who were born when the so-called historic Assam Accord was signed 25 years ago and those who were born thereafter who are now mature enough to understand what is going on around them, if of course they are interested in the affairs of the beleaguered State of Assam, the best living space for the swelling illegal Bangladeshi crowd out to reduce the indigenous people of the State into a persecuted minority in their very homeland. But is the Assam youth concerned? Is he informed by the reality of the problem? Does he realize the gravity of the situation? Can he foresee who might preside over his destiny in the near future? Does he know who are the kingmakers in his State? Does he even have an inkling of the actual design? Let us start with the design. The design is this: get Assam flooded by as many illegal Bangladeshis as possible so that their original living space, Bangladesh, which faces an acute paucity of land and other resources to sustain the burgeoning population resulting from polygamy, is extended to include the resourceful Assam in a greater Islamic state of Bangladesh. (There is stress on the word ‘‘Islamic’’ because Bangladesh is an Islamic state, will remain so, given its highly Islamized society and despite an attempt at secularism by the present government of Sheikh Hasina, and therefore, a greater Bangladesh will patently be a Islamic state.) Let us call it the unfinished agenda of Partition, the agenda of making Assam a Bangladeshi-majority area with geo-strategic ramifications typical of such a zone, given (1) the proximity with China with which Bangladesh presently shares a very good relationship, a relationship that is becoming multidimensional by the day, ranging from the usual business ties to military aid to Bangladesh, and that will evolve by the day because China is desperate to expand its sphere of influence and beat India thus, and (2) the Bangladesh chapter of the Pakistan Army’s rogue spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), whose chief intent to be in that country is to destabilize India’s Northeast and through the Northeast the rest of the country, and make its valuable jihadi contribution to the making of a greater Islamic state in this part of the world. Let the Assam youth be informed by these facts of life. This is no fiction. Does the youth know what Stratfor, a US news intelligence service and strategic think tank, said three years ago? In April 2007, it came up with a report on the infiltration of ISI operatives into the strategically located India’s Northeast. In its report titled “India: Islamization of the Northeast”, Stratfor harped on the attempts by the ISI in tandem with Bangladesh’s intelligence agencies to exploit the instabilities fuelled by the militant groups of the Northeast so that India could be prevented from emerging as a key global player. The report said that the ISI and Bangladesh’s intelligence agencies were working clandestinely in Bangladesh to bring all the Northeast-based militant outfits and jihadi elements under one umbrella.
Re: [Assam] s the Assam Youth Really Concerned? - a Column in the Assam Sentinel
C'da, *** IF, the people , not the select groups of bad people, don't care and employ B'deshis, it means there IS a need for it and they don't care whether they wear scull-caps or lungis. Should they be excoriated for that, calkled names, because certain elites or other such 'groups' do? It is the common people (not select groups), and they are NOT bad or anything like that. It could be just that, when such work is required, the only people that are available are quite possibly Bangladeshis. And one can effectively argue - how does one go about identify such people (suspect of being illegal)? And it is good question, and a legitimate one. I think, just like here, some kind of national ID system can be implemented. Everyone carries one, and to acquire one, it would require certain documents be presented. It is easy to say, but I think, if there is will by both the Center the State, and there is an inclination by the people to help solve the problem, it can be done. The question of identification comes with a lot of political baggage. And it is becoming next to impossible to decipher whether an obviously benign question as how to identify possible illegal B'deshis is presented as an impediment to the process or not. The bottom line is to first recognize there are illegal B'deshis in Assam. Second, to recognize that a solution needs to be arrived at, and soon. Third, to assure minorities in Assam, that this process is not against them (this is the hardest, I think). *** That said, there have been a number of possible ways to stem the flow, control the numbers, yet prevent them from growing permanent roots, acquiring land and slipping into the voter's lists, floating around for decades. Are the powers that be unaware of them? Have the apparatus of state lifted a finger to do anything about it? Have the journals aired them and encouraged a debate on them to not only inform the public but to examine them for efficacy? Again, valid points. I am sure the powers that be are fully aware of them. The Center can be ignorant, and callous, but if a State government insists, without wavering, the Center will be galvanized into action. This is also where the youth come in to get the State take this problem seriously. (Isn't it how it is done?:-) As a side note : Isn't it very strange, that in the US, student politics basically ceased to exist (after Vietnam Civic Rights issues). Today, US students seem so apolitical. And in countries like India, we see a intellectuals journalists urging and expecting student groups to change national political behavior. All I see are student groups used as puppets and taking them away for the purpose they are in schools in the first place. I understand the dynamics, it's just sad! --Ram On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: But is the Assam youth concerned? Is he informed by the reality of the problem? Does he realize the gravity of the situation? Can he foresee who might preside over his destiny in the near future? Does he know who are the kingmakers in his State? *** What I am curious about is what has the establishment, those who are the pillars of society, the kingmakers, the journalists, were/are responsible for border protection, immigration control etc., BEFORE the problem became as pervasive as it has now ? They are the ones that have put in place the successive dysfunctional governments and have helped perpetuate them. *** IF, the people , not the select groups of bad people, don't care and employ B'deshis, it means there IS a need for it and they don't care whether they wear scull-caps or lungis. Should they be excoriated for that, calkled names, because certain elites or other such 'groups' do? Here I would like to point out how easily the tables could be turned on such arguments. *** That said, there have been a number of possible ways to stem the flow, control the numbers, yet prevent them from growing permanent roots, acquiring land and slipping into the voter's lists, floating around for decades. Are the powers that be unaware of them? Have the apparatus of state lifted a finger to do anything about it? Have the journals aired them and encouraged a debate on them to not only inform the public but to examine them for efficacy? And if the establishment does not care or are coerced into silence by their partisan political needs and tactics, then why blame the youth? On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:56 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Bikash Sarmah has given a good synopsis of this problem. Quite often (and in this net too), a demand or a desire to solve the illegal Bangladeshis problem in Assam is promptly cast as communal. This is unfortunate, Assamese Muslims or bonafide Bengali residents of Assam are equally affected by this problem, and it is in the OVERALL interest of Assam Assamese that this problem be solved, and soon. While Delhi has
Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form
All states within India allow any private language school to operate, including foreign languages. At least that was the way it was when I was there. Assamnet is run by a few individuals and started many years ago. It is really upto the administrators what material should or should not be allowed. Generally, the Assamnet's focus is Assam centric. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com wrote: Yes, you are right it is Assamnet. As I understand it's niether Banglanet nor Assamesenet! It's India My dear ! Do West Bengal allows Assamese medium in Schools? Do Bihar? Do UP? Do Rajasthan? From: pragyan.ts...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:26:52 +0530 To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form 'Is it Assamnet or Banglanet? Advertising Bangla Unicode texts? :-)' Yes, you are right it is Assamnet. As I understand it's niether Banglanet nor Assamesenet! It's India My dear ! Sushanta 2010/8/18 Dhruba Jyoti Deka dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com Is it Assamnet or Banglanet? Advertising Bangla Unicode texts? :-) From: pragyan.ts...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:00:05 +0530 To: assam@assamnet.org; xo...@googlegroups.com Subject: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form Let your kids read Complete Ramayana in Comic form http://www.scribd.com/full/29882404?access_key=key-15boxcvmdkba8yvyxldy -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা রবীন্দ্রনাথ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা রবীন্দ্রনাথ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Very briefly, I did not use the word Population. I did use we find some groups of people demanding. And SOME GROUPS, does not mean a whole population. A simple, innocent word slipped in could change the entire meaning and context. Happens quite a lot in this net :-) On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: First,two wrongs don't make a right. It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end, is no different than 'the apathetic people' of Assam that a few of you try to hold RESPONSIBLE for the problem, as Ram has so eloquently demonstrated :-). Question would be why? Why are you so afraid to give a straight answer instead of resorting to subterfuges? Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so that the thugs could have field day. It couldn't be farther from the truth. Ram's premise was that the 'population' is 'accepting of it' and that it 'cherry picks' --- opportunities to demonize his India. If that cherry-picking hurts his or your sentiments so, why can't you show us WHAT your keepers and mai-baap at Dilli, who is RESPONSIBLE for it and has the RESOURCES , been doing all these years with the help and collusion of its puppets at Dispur? And IF the population is accepting who is Ram or you, expatriates, to take issue with it? So which part of these amounts to arguing that two wrongs make a right or any such thing, even remotely? On Aug 18, 2010, at 10:33 PM, kamal deka wrote: : Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to secure the borders? Two things again: First,two wrongs don't make a right. Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so that the thugs could have field day. KJD B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take issue with it, other than your personal On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: The central theme is such cases is Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it needs to be separate from India. That is what IMAGINING a national identity is all about. What is India? How is it different from Pakistan, or B'desh, or Nepal or SriLanka. All national identities are born out of a imaginations trhat they are. There are NO rules that govern it. Or are there? n many a case I suspect, the aim is cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them best. Let us accept the premise here. If so, is there a law against that? Or is it unethical according to some standard of ethical practices? Who are these conspirators who choose to cherry pick? And WHAT IS their interest, their motives? Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing the entire political landscape of these regions. TWO points to note here: A: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to secure the borders? B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take issue with it, other than your personal preferences or, more precisely, prejudices? finally, I think Sanjiv Goswami is exactly right with his analyses and conclusions. On Aug 18, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Very well put KJD. Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it needs to be separate from India. Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to erase borders and think of the world with no borders. The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is cherry picking
Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form
Go and try to start an Assamese school - say in Gujarat, and then let me know if the Govt. of Gujarat shuts it down. Now, if you demand an Assamese school in Gujarat and want the Guj. Govt. to pay for it, they may say no. And Assamnet does not belong to any govt. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com wrote: All states within India allow any private language school to operate, including foreign languages. At least that was the way it was when I was there. Where there was or is Assamese medium school other states beyond Assam, in India? Kindly let me know. Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:54:27 -0500 From: assa...@gmail.com To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form All states within India allow any private language school to operate, including foreign languages. At least that was the way it was when I was there. Assamnet is run by a few individuals and started many years ago. It is really upto the administrators what material should or should not be allowed. Generally, the Assamnet's focus is Assam centric. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com wrote: Yes, you are right it is Assamnet. As I understand it's niether Banglanet nor Assamesenet! It's India My dear ! Do West Bengal allows Assamese medium in Schools? Do Bihar? Do UP? Do Rajasthan? From: pragyan.ts...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:26:52 +0530 To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form 'Is it Assamnet or Banglanet? Advertising Bangla Unicode texts? :-)' Yes, you are right it is Assamnet. As I understand it's niether Banglanet nor Assamesenet! It's India My dear ! Sushanta 2010/8/18 Dhruba Jyoti Deka dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com Is it Assamnet or Banglanet? Advertising Bangla Unicode texts? :-) From: pragyan.ts...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:00:05 +0530 To: assam@assamnet.org; xo...@googlegroups.com Subject: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form Let your kids read Complete Ramayana in Comic form http://www.scribd.com/full/29882404?access_key=key-15boxcvmdkba8yvyxldy -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা রবীন্দ্রনাথ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা রবীন্দ্রনাথ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Fw: Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
I know C'da. If I were you, I would have taken the same oppty. Well, it's just too early in the AM, and all my faculties aren't fired up yet. But no offense taken at all. --Ram On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: I just could not resist the juicy opportunity presented by Dilip to ring your chimes Pass Ram. But I was only kidding about your CONVERSION :-). On Aug 19, 2010, at 8:44 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: There is no zealot like a new convert, is there :-)? You mean the new kharkhowa (zealot) who just realizes his/her roots, and suddenly starts thinking Assam If I am a zealot, I would be termed as an old one. For me, being born and brought up at Guwahati brings with the closeness for my identification basically does the trick. I could have actually ignored all this (like some Kharkhowas), and continued my life in the US. I think, that is why these ties and bonds makes many of us discuss argue about Assam. --Ram On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:38 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Ram Sarangapani gets his rights by assimilation later. :-) There is no zealot like a new convert, is there :-)? On Aug 18, 2010, at 9:28 PM, Dilip Deka wrote: Also remember, the people who migrated to Assam many centuries ago and their descendants have as much right to remain in Assam, as any of the tribes, hills or plain. That includes Kamal Deka, Chandan Mahanta, me and many others. Ram Sarangapani gets his rights by assimilation later. :-) - Forwarded Message From: Dilip Deka dilipd...@yahoo.com To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world assam@assamnet.org Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 9:20:22 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story I have just one comment - we cannot live in the past, we need to live n the present and prepare for the future. From: Ram Sarangapani assa...@gmail.com To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world assam@assamnet.org Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 7:45:26 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story Very well put KJD. Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it needs to be separate from India. Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to erase borders and think of the world with no borders. The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them best. btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da Just my 2 cents. --Ram On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka kjit.d...@gmail.com wrote: When did this word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, but it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days of Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of centuries of common continuous political rule over the same geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. KJD On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur uttambortha...@yahoo.co.in wrote: The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to understand. Please read on:- Hi All, Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped up here and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I would like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese is something
Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form
Now, that is an entirely different argument from the one you started with. Private companies and private blogs are NOT govt. Well, the Bengali population (not the Bengali population in Bengal) in Assam must have demanded as such. It is the GOA who said OK. They could have said NO. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com wrote: Now, if you demand an Assamese school in Gujarat and want the Guj. Govt. to pay for it, they may say no. Why Assam Govt recognized other state's medium as Govt school Medium? In Barak Valley. Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 09:06:44 -0500 From: assa...@gmail.com To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form Go and try to start an Assamese school - say in Gujarat, and then let me know if the Govt. of Gujarat shuts it down. Now, if you demand an Assamese school in Gujarat and want the Guj. Govt. to pay for it, they may say no. And Assamnet does not belong to any govt. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com wrote: All states within India allow any private language school to operate, including foreign languages. At least that was the way it was when I was there. Where there was or is Assamese medium school other states beyond Assam, in India? Kindly let me know. Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:54:27 -0500 From: assa...@gmail.com To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form All states within India allow any private language school to operate, including foreign languages. At least that was the way it was when I was there. Assamnet is run by a few individuals and started many years ago. It is really upto the administrators what material should or should not be allowed. Generally, the Assamnet's focus is Assam centric. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com wrote: Yes, you are right it is Assamnet. As I understand it's niether Banglanet nor Assamesenet! It's India My dear ! Do West Bengal allows Assamese medium in Schools? Do Bihar? Do UP? Do Rajasthan? From: pragyan.ts...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:26:52 +0530 To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form 'Is it Assamnet or Banglanet? Advertising Bangla Unicode texts? :-)' Yes, you are right it is Assamnet. As I understand it's niether Banglanet nor Assamesenet! It's India My dear ! Sushanta 2010/8/18 Dhruba Jyoti Deka dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com Is it Assamnet or Banglanet? Advertising Bangla Unicode texts? :-) From: pragyan.ts...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:00:05 +0530 To: assam@assamnet.org; xo...@googlegroups.com Subject: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form Let your kids read Complete Ramayana in Comic form http://www.scribd.com/full/29882404?access_key=key-15boxcvmdkba8yvyxldy -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা রবীন্দ্রনাথ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা রবীন্দ্রনাথ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form
I also prefer to post in a foreign language English here For those who are STILL not aware, English is not a foreign language in India. It is a recognized, national Indian language. Further, more people speak/write English in India than most other languages. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Sushanta Kar pragyan.ts...@gmail.comwrote: Dear Dhrubajyoti, I can't understand where from two words 'West Bengal' and 'School' come here. It's my email ID . I have some signature written in Bengali. Bengali is not only language of West Bengal. Neither I'm a citizen of WB. So, I'm not answerable to what that state would have done. If that state doesn't allow any other languages to operate then it would not be ideal state to me. I'd love to hate that state. I know , in today's India every state and its' people are try to kill the true India Social spirit, Unity in Diversity'. WB is not exception . But here these are off topic references. As far my knowledge goes Google has no problem with my mother tongue. Now, Come to my point. I didn't posted any topic in Bengali, rather like most of friends here, I also prefer to post in a foreign language English here. So, what is written as my signature is my personal matter. It goes with my every mail, every where. Had it been Assamesenet, possibly I would have think twice to subscribe to this group or to write in a language other then Assamese. But, it's Assamnet. Forget about me, I'm writing from Tinsukia. But, what if anyone be member from Barak valley and choose to write in Bengali? Will you not allow him. Constitutionally, Bengali is Regional state language there. Will you not allow anyone to write in Bodo here? Bodo is constitutionally state language of BTAD , my friend. You can stick to your point. You have every right . But, then will you choose to propose me to open up a group call ' Bengalis of Assamnet' for Bengalis only? Do , you think it would be good for social fabric of the state? Anyway, I was just joking with you. You take my signature positively. You will find that I've all the well wishes for Assamese language and culture. And most of my works are Assamese Centric. Most of Assamnet friends know by this time. My, signatures are not only personal publicity. It also propagate the massage that one can write in his mother tongue here on net (not only Assamnet) . To my experiences it help many Assamese friends to feel motivated and try Assamese on net. And by this time I feel proud to say that a good number of friends here on Assam net feel free to talk with me on the topic how can Assamese contents be increased on net. I thing , friends will write the rest. Sushanta Kar On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Dhruba Jyoti Deka dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com wrote: Yes, you are right it is Assamnet. As I understand it's niether Banglanet nor Assamesenet! It's India My dear ! Do West Bengal allows Assamese medium in Schools? Do Bihar? Do UP? Do Rajasthan? From: pragyan.ts...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:26:52 +0530 To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form 'Is it Assamnet or Banglanet? Advertising Bangla Unicode texts? :-)' Yes, you are right it is Assamnet. As I understand it's niether Banglanet nor Assamesenet! It's India My dear ! Sushanta 2010/8/18 Dhruba Jyoti Deka dhrubajyotid...@hotmail.com Is it Assamnet or Banglanet? Advertising Bangla Unicode texts? :-) From: pragyan.ts...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:00:05 +0530 To: assam@assamnet.org; xo...@googlegroups.com Subject: [Assam] Ramayana in Comic form Let your kids read Complete Ramayana in Comic form http://www.scribd.com/full/29882404?access_key=key-15boxcvmdkba8yvyxldy -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা রবীন্দ্রনাথ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Very well put KJD. Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it needs to be separate from India. Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to erase borders and think of the world with no borders. The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them best. btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da Just my 2 cents. --Ram On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka kjit.d...@gmail.com wrote: When did this word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, but it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days of Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of centuries of common continuous political rule over the same geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. KJD On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur uttambortha...@yahoo.co.in wrote: The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to understand. Please read on:- Hi All, Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped up here and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I would like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese is something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants ourselves (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of us are and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. But we have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because someone, not too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did this word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, but it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days of Mahabharat. If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times ? Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now classed as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, as .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them as Assamese, but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so that even the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu people of upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no longer referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya Musalman. Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali Hindu is another example. No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying to get away from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore no wonder, that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others want to leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are shunned. And this in spite of the fact that there is no data on when they came as immigrants, many had in fact come well before independence (as reported by the Governor hujur in his report to the President.. see www.satp.org for the full report). The question of immigration is an age old one and there are thousands of books and theories all around. The problem is not of immigrant, Chiranjit, but of perception towards immigrants. It is also a question related to electoral politics worldwide. You may like to refer to Samuel Huntington's theory of Clash of
Re: [Assam] About Argumentum Ad Hominem
O c'mon, C'da, I can comply, you know, even though it would become very acrimonious? Now, now, why would a discussion on this net take an acrimonious bent? I try to never take general discussions on Assam or India for that matter on this net, on a personal level. If I did, that would not be something I would proud of. But be that as it may, that's NOT in me, but you are always free to publish my select quotes. I have to get published somewhere, why not here:-) I am quite sure *I* am the only culprit on these shores :-) --Ram On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Funny, isn't it Ram ? But it may NOT be so funny, if I publish a set of selected quotes. Would you like me to ? I can comply, you know, even though it would become very acrimonious? c-da :-) On Aug 16, 2010, at 11:11 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Hehehe! Argumentum ad hominem? Some examples might be nice. I don't think I ever come across that disease around Texas. Have you KJD? Perhaps, it is raging in other parts (not to be named :-)). I think, it is time for the good Daktor Haatimuria to descent from his perch in the Ozarks (I think), and find a cure all for the incorrigible kharkhowas. I have heard that is is closely related to the FIM disease (Foot-in-mouth) the other famous one 'argumentum ad infinitum' disease, which seems to affect a number of us - I think have a rare case of that affliction :-) :-) --Ram On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 10:18 PM, Chan Mahanta cmaha...@gmail.com wrote: Often, actually way to often, we see the phenomenon of Argumentum ad hominem in our discussions and debates. Since it is so frequent, one has to conclude that our friends, who, rightfully, take pride in their knowledge of things, perhaps have nort come across this particular phenomenon. So I thought it is as good a time as any, to bt ring it to their attention: Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the argument. cm ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
