Re: In defense of Biblical marriage
Well sure. And you can make exactly the same objection to ANY reason ANYONE puts forward for doing ANYTHING. The measure of a measure taken is of course not the sincerity of the person taking it, but its effect on others. I'm simply saying that Judaism believes in more than mere faith as a guide to living. It's a start, not a finish. Tom Beck -- "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never thought I'd see the last." - Dr. Jerry Pournelle > And who exactly do you trust to decide what is and is not the proper > perfection? Who would you trust to make decisions on how the world > should be completed, (or if you believe as such), how God intended it > to be completed? > > I know of a lot of really bad things that have been done in the name > of God. Do you believe that those who did them did not firmly believe > that they were doing God's bidding? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: In defense of Biblical marriage
> Fair enough. One always needs to hope from time to time. But hope is > perpetually optimistic. And it's been my experience that optimism is in most > cases, a complete disregard for the truth. > I can't _prove_ faith, and I'm not trying to. I was merely putting forth the position (or, rather, _a_ position) that exists within my faith. It's how I try to live my life. My choice. Doesn't have to persuade you, or anyone else. Just what I think. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: A reasonable view.
You are correct in the abstract, but perhaps less so in the concrete. So many critics of Israel actually ARE motivated by anti-semitism that it is only prudent to wonder at first. So many proponents of so-called "states' rights" really ARE and WERE motivated by racism that again, one's first thought HAS to be, maybe that's what's in play. FIRST thought. Not necessarily second. Being aware of the past and how it may inform the present, not being naive, is NOT intolerance, but merely prudence. " I disagree. "That automatic questioning, that first assumption is akin to intolerance. Many things are not as you say necessarily correct. Reverse implications and knee-jerk emotions are places where differences become intolerance and even hate." Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: In defense of Biblical marriage
> I don't necessarily think that's true. Especially since prayer is the > action. Besides, if one has to "balance" prayer with something, anything, > then it kind of defeats the purpose in the first place doesn't it? > Not in Judaism. At least not in Conservative Judaism. There's something Napoleon supposedly said to his generals that sums it up perfectly: "Pray as if everything depends upon God. But fight as if everything depends upon you." Prayer is NOT enough. God expects us to do His work in His world. Judaism teaches us that we are His partners in completing His creation. In Hebrew it's called Tikun Olam, "healing the world" or "perfecting the world." That God deliberately left the world incomplete so that people could experience the fulfillment of accomplishing its completion themselves. People pray for a lot of reasons. Not just for things but for strength, for guidance, for hope, for direction. And after that, we have to go out into the world and put our faith into action. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: A reasonable view.
> None of these examples are correct! > Correction: none of them are NECESSARILY correct. But many of them have at least some basis in truth. E.g., criticism of Israel often IS motivated by anti-Semitism, proponents of so-called "states' rights" often ARE crypto (or not so crypto) segregationists, etc. Not in all cases. But certainly in enough that one has to wonder and question if not automatically always assume. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Political Baiting Re: Thoughts on gay marriage?
> For whatever it is worth, it is a common meme among conservatives that > liberals consider themselves to be smarter than conservatives. > > I don't consider myself necessarily smarter than anyone else. What I would say is that liberals are much nicer people in their politics than conservatives (not necessarily nicer as people; I know some conservatives who are lovely people even though their politics make me sick - when I'm not shrieking in rage). Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Thoughts on gay marriage?
> This was an honest expression of concern and confusion that is shared by > many. I suspect and hope that over time people will get used to the idea but > for > now it does not do the cause of gay union any good to sharply casitgate > someone > for honestly expressed feelings. > If you don't confront people and call them on their prejudices, they will get the idea that it's okay to feel the way they do. In the long run, that does not lead to them abandoning their dislikes. It's easy to walk away when you hear someone express feelings of dislike and even hatred based not on knowing a particular person but just on the group that person belongs to. How many of us, when we hear someone say something negative about "the Jews" or "the blacks" or "the Muslims," simply decide to take the easy way out and not cause a scene? But how does that advance the cause of increasing rights for all of us? I'm not saying jump all over people who express these thoughts, but we also don't have to let them think there's nothing wrong with being biased. Because there is something very much wrong with it. If we don't object, we are complicit; they may even feel we agree with them. It doesn't have to be vicious or rancorous, but I think we need to let them know. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Thoughts on gay marriage?
> Is there some bizarre meme that's infected the members of this list that > dictates that every single person who dislikes something would *automatically* > impose his will on others because of it? Do you all simply have that low of > an opinion of everyone else that you assume that no one on the planet can use > his brain to realize that just because something's wrong for him, it's not > (always) right to make it wrong for others? > Sorry if we misread you. But most people weighing in on the anti-gay marriage side of things appear that they very much WOULD impose their views on the world. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Thoughts on gay marriage?
> Well, add me to list of dolts then, Tom. I find myself in that very boat; > I believe gays should have the right to official unions. Hell, why shouldn't > *they* have to have the prospect of giving up half their stuff and arguing > over who gets the coffee table if they break up same as straight people? :) > Not to mention my sister is gay, and she and her girlfriend have been > together for some seven to eight years, and if that's what she wants, that what I > want for her. > > But the idea of calling it "marriage" does make me uncomfortable on some > vague level I can't really explain. Product of my environment, I suppose. If > it makes me a dolt that 36 years of being told that marriage is between a man > and a woman isn't easy to just shrug off, so be it. > I can't stop you feeling what you feel, but you need to ask yourself why you are so important that your feelings should be permitted to ruin the lives and happiness of people you don't even know. As I said, there are still people who are "uncomfortable on some vague level" with interracial marriage. Should they be permitted to impose their prejudices on the rest of society? Why? Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Thoughts on gay marriage?
In a message dated 2/15/04 1:56:06 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > As I understand it, a big concern of opponents is that once MA allows gay > marriage, other states will be forced to recognize the marriages (IIRC, > states are required to recognize marriages done in other states), and their > own states will be vulnerable to lawsuits forcing gay marriage there as > well. (In other words, the slippery slope problem). So they are less > inclined to write it off as crazy Massachusetts liberals, and more inclined > to attempt pre-emptive actions to prevent that possibilty. > The US Constitution requires each state to give "full faith and credit" to the public acts of each other state. That's why some opponents of gay marriage want to amend the Constitution to define marriage as only between a man and a woman. My problem with that is, it enshrines discrimination in the very founding document of a country that supposedly believes in and celebrates liberty. Forty years ago, some of the very same arguments being made today against gay marriage were made then against interracial marriage (which still upsets some very conservative people today. When Clarence Thomas was nominated for the US Supreme Court, there were some Southern Republicans who were not happy about the fact that his wife is white.) To me, all the arguments opposing gay marriage are based on fear, prejudice, and attempts to pander to other people's fear and prejudice. I don't see how permitting two adults who love each other to solemnize that love in a legal relationship can possibly "threaten" the institution of marriage; if anything, it shows just how strong the belief in marriage is. And besides, what's more "threatening," anyway: two gay people making a commitment that lasts years, or Britney Spears on a whim marrying some dope for a few hours and then ditching him? Why is it legal for her, and not for a committed, loving, responsible same-sex couple? Some conservatives seem to want to have it both ways: criticize gays for being promiscuous and irresponsible, and then not let them be monogamous and responsible. Basically, they want that there shouldn't be gays at all. Well, they can't be stopped from believing that, but why should the rest of us let them bulldoze and bamboozle the entire country into following their reactionary meanspirited hatefulness? It's the word "marriage" that appears to have some mystical, totemic meaning for some lamebrained lazyminded easily stampeded credulous dolts (i.e., most of the American public). They don't mind some kind of legal protection for gay couples but just for some reason don't want it to be called "marriage." But why should their insensate fear be permitted to cause genuine harm to other people? You don't have a right NOT to be offended. There's no right to have your every whim and prejudice codified into law. Gay people are subject to all the laws of this country. They pay taxes. Why should they not have the right to the equal enjoyment of all the other laws that everyone else enjoys? If they can't marry, can't serve openly in the military, can't adopt, can't inherit from a partner, then maybe they should be exempt from paying taxes, etc. Man, can you see the rush of straight tax-avoiders claiming to be gay? Biggest new tax shelter in years. My final thought: Don't want gay marriage? Don't have one. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Voodoo Economics
> I'm not sure about that. In many many ways his ideas are both wrong and > dangerous. His focusing on classes and the inevitability of class > struggle, his inability to see the possibility of moderation and compromise > all are firm foundations for the evil done in his name. > At the time, there was very little moderation and compromise to see. > My guess is that he will, properly, be taught as a major > philosopher/political philosopher/sociologist for years to come. Properly > taught, he can also be a roll model for the disastrous effects of hubris > when intellectuals ply their trade. > How did Marx ply his trade? He was never in charge of anything. He wrote and argued; others tried to put his ideas into practice (badly and in inappropriate places). There was no hubris at play here; in fact, he denounced the communist party of Germany shortly before he died for misusing his thoughts (when told what their program was, he replied, "If this is what it means to be a 'Marxist,' then _I_ am not a Marxist!") You can't take the evil of the 20th century and blame a man who died in 1883 for what others would do later, even if it was in his name. Especially when he never called for it to be done. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Voodoo Economics
> 1) Why do you assume that if he saw contrary evidence, > he would have corrected himself? There was plenty of > contrary evidence available in 1883, and it didn't > seem to stop him. > Actually, there wasn't all that much evidence. He did not foresee the rise of the labor union movement. He honestly believed that capitalism could NOT reform even if it wanted to, that the logic of the market would lead capitalism to destroy itself. In any case, Marx was beginning to have some doubts right before he died, especially about the political movement based on his work. > 2) Why _not_ blame him for what has been done in his > name since he died? It seems like much of what > happened in his name is a logical outcome of what he > said, after all. > Bullshit. Sorry, but that's what it is to blame the horrors of the 20th century on a man who died in 1883 and who NEVER countenanced violence (The Communist Manifesto was a tract written in the throes of a convulsive year and bears about as much relation to his real work as Woody Allen's "Bananas" does to "The Battle for Algiers"). He never thought revolution would come to a pre-industrial country, he never though it would lead to a single-party dictatorship, he never thought it would lead to the Gulag. I don't see how you can reasonably blame Lenin and Stalin on Marx, who would have been one of the very first to castigate the perversions they caused to his theories. It's almost like blaming Martin Luther for Hitler (which I've seen done). And remember, what Marx was opposed to was not necessarily any better. The Industrial Revolution was the cause of massive human suffering (which Marx believed was unfortunately necessary to create the wealth that the proletariat would later liberate). Just because Lenin was bad does not make Nicholas II good. Just because Castro is bad does not make Batista good. Marx was not a politician or a political theorist. He thought he was a scientific philosopher who had discovered iron laws of history. He was wrong in his prescription for the future - capitalism did prove much more adaptable than he thought - but his analytical technique is not necessarily inaccurate. > He wasn't Jesus. You can't argue > nearly as plausibly that the USSR was a perversion of > Communism as you could that the Spanish Inquisition > was a perversion of Christianity. > Of course you can. Marx never expected Russia to be the first country to have a communist revolution. He didn't think it was possible - and, in a sense, he was right. > At what point do we get to say that he was full of it > and move on, really? > His theories turned out to be wrong, but I think he would have realized this and adjusted his theories to take notice of such things as trade unionism, government-sponsored social security programs, the creation of a larger middle class, etc. Obviously we'll never know, but I think it is ahistorical claptrap to blame Marx for the Russian Revolution, which happened 34 years after he died in a country that he never believed could sustain a workers' revolution (and Lenin had to jump through all kinds of theoretical hoops to justify his actions). I don't think he was any more full of it than the "supply side" morons who still won't admit they were pretty much wrong about just about everything. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Voodoo Economics
> Or like Karl Marx, actually. Enhancing the > contradictions, isn't that what the Marxists called > it? :-) Been a long time since I read any Marxist > philosophy, and I will admit I didn't pay that much > attention when I was supposed to be studying it... > Well, _some_ Marxists seemed to believe in a philosophy that might be called "the worse, the better", but most intelligent leftists abandoned that approach after the disaster that following it led to in Weimar Germany. Remember, it's very difficult to assume what Marx himself would have had to say about anything that happened in the 20th century, since he died in 1883. He believed he was creating a scientific approach to analyzing history, based on the evidence he'd seen. If he saw contrary evidence, he would have corrected himself. I don't think it's fair to blame Marx for what has been done in his name since he died. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Whatever Happened to Scott Ritter?
Ask and ye shall learn: http://truthout.org/docs_04/020804C.shtml Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> I interpreted Tom's post as very clearly judging all Christians. Perhaps > you saw Tom's post differently? > I hope I don't judge all Christians negatively. Most Christians are appalled by violence against anyone. Throughout history this has also probably been true (if it had been otherwise, I doubt there would be many Jews left by now. Not that there ARE all that many of us, alas.) But - that does not make much difference. The violence that was done, and not all that long ago either, was such that Jews still have very good reason to be suspicious and nervous and on our guard. It does no good to tell us to forgive and forget. We've been through too much, either directly or through knowing our history. If we see danger where there is none, that's also a product of our experience. And Gibson's actions, and his background, don't give us any reason to relax. He's been acting like he's the one at danger here, like he's battling mighty, inimical forces. Wanna make a movie about Jesus? It's a free country. Gibson is free to make his movie - and we're free to criticize him. But there really is a potential danger here, that some people may be stirred up by this movie to attack Jews they way they were in the past by viciously anti-Jewish Passion plays - does anybody here really want us to risk that? It's not Christians whose asses are maybe on the line here. Want me not to judge Christians negatively? Stand with us on this. If you're talking to someone who saw the movie and they start to say something anti-Jewish based on the movie, don't let them get away with it. I don't think this is too much to ask. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> So, going on the assumption that the Gospels are the best historical > account we have of the events we are discussing, is it not ahistorical to > simply skip over Matthew 27:20-25? How would you suggest a film-maker > handle that important portion of the story without making Jews nervous? > Not make the movie. Or not hide it from Jewish audiences once you've made it. Or show the script widely to Jewish scholars before starting filming. Not show the finished film only to extremly conservative Christian groups. Basically, Gibson is acting like he's no clue just why them damn pesky Jews are being so uppity about his little movie that poor little ol' defenseless powerless little ol' him is fighting such powerful enemies to produce and distribute. Either he doesn't understand, in which case where the hell's he been since the Holocaust and the Crusades and all the rest, or he understands perfectly and actually wants to show how evil us Jews really are. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> I would argue that John Paul II has done precisely that. > To a large extent, yes. Certainly more than any major Christian leader before him (well, Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI also did a lot). Still a long way to go, though. > But isn't judging all Christians as a class exactly the sort of class-based > thinking that Jews of all people should explicitly reject? > I've said that I don't blame all Christians for Christian anti-Semitism, or at least that I try not to. Suspicion and resentment are not exactly the same as blame. But even if I do, or even if other Jews do, is it so hard to understand why? I'm trying not to play victim here, since I personally have experienced also no anti-Semitism myself. Most of the Christian friends I've had in my lifetime have been just that - friends. They accept me for who and what I am, just as I accept them for who and what they are. To the extent that I have been writing on this issue here recently, it's out of a very strong feeling for what other Jews have gone through, and an understanding that that COULD have been me - and in different times and places very well MIGHT have been me. America has been good to the Jews (and vice-versa), and I don't really think that this is likely to change much, even if Gibson's movie breaks records. But there is always nervousness among Jews, and if we judge Christians harshly, that's hardly of the same consequence as Christian anti-Semitism or Nazi extermination. Again, my point is, if Christians truly want to demonstrate that they understand why Jews are suspicious, if they truly want to prove that they pose no threat, it's easy to do so. John-Paul HAS begun to lead the way, and many other Christians have done likewise. And you don't have to let Mel Gibson speak for you, or leave it to Jews to point out the inherent dangers in basing a popular entertainment on an uncritical and ahistorical adaptation of the Gospels. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> But, what about God forgiving David? > God can forgive sins against God, not against someone else. Only the person sinned against can forgive those (in Jewish teaching, that is). Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> Which makes the words of one famous Jew all the more impressive: "Father > forgive them, for they know not what they do." > As I've said, Judaism teaches God can't forgive sins against people - only the person sinned against can. If I sound bitter against Christians, some of that is in the heat of argument. I'm perfectly aware that most Christians today are not likely to perpetrate violence against anyone. And any individual Christian today is not responsible for what some Christians did in the past. But it DID happen. Some Christians - too many Christians - DID murder Jews - countless thousands of them - for the crime of wanting to be Jewish. We can't forget that. We dare not forget it. I can't forgive the murderers because they didn't hurt me. Only the victims can forgive, and then only if the victimizer truly repents and asks for forgiveness. Which I don't think happened. The thing is, I think Christians should be willing to face up to what was done in their name in the past and try to show some understanding for Jewish suspicions. We never deserved what happened to us, and yet it happened anyway, and you can't simply wish that away or lecture us to be forgiving and forgetful. Uh-uh, sorry. Doesn't work that way. Want forgiveness? Act like you mean it. Help us fight the evil, don't pretend it's not there or bore us with nostrums about, oh, that's all in the past, can we all get along? From where I'm sitting, from where most Jews sit, we're not sure. Sorry if that pisses you off, but that's the way it is. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> So IYO no one can ever make a movie about the life of Jesus -- where for > Christians the main point of the life of Jesus is His death and > resurrection and its meaning for us today -- because some people use the > fact that some Jews who lived at the time were involved in his death to > justify hatred of and violence against all Jews today? > I never said no one can; people can do anything they want. BUT, if you are going to make a movie about the death of Jesus, you need to take care NOT to give any ammunition to anti-Semites. Because Jews HAVE been murdered over the past two millennia because they were blamed for rejecting and killing Jesus. To ignore that is to take on some complicity for the hatred and violence. I think Christians need to face up to this and not try to argue it away or pretend it didn't happen or deny their responsibility for two millennia of violence. Because, whatever Christians may think of their religion as being a religion of love and peace, to Jews it's a religion of hatred and murder. And yes, I know, it's as wrong for Jews to blame all Christians for the violence as it is for Christians to blame all Jews for the death of Jesus. But when you're a tiny helpless minority being persecuted and hunted down and burned alive in synagogues and forced to convert, it's not easy to be fair. To be honest, if a Jew distrusts Christians, I'm not sure there's much of a consequence, as there simply aren't enough of us to do anything about it. When Christians preach hatred of Jews (and I realize that these days most no longer do this, but the damage has been done), the consequences are and have been horrific. Christians should feel shame and do true penitence about this; is that really so much to ask? > If that is not what you are saying, what do you think would be an > acceptable way of portraying > the account given in the Gospels while staying true to that account? > Why not make a movie about two millennia of Christians murdering Jews? If a Jew did that, wouldn't Christians be stirred up and angry? Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> Does the movie make that claim? (That ALL Jews are guilty, etc.) Or is > that judgement in the mind of the viewer? > Again, you're completely missing the point. Whether or not the movie blames all the Jews for the death of Jesus, over two millennia millions of Christians HAVE blamed all Jews and exacted horrible retribution on uncountable tens of thousands of innocent Jews. For Gibson to make a movie based on the same Gospels that have inflamed these vile and vicious murders and not to explicitly renounce the idea of blaming all the Jews is extremely irresponsible. Because I guarantee you, there will be anti-Semites who will see this movie and trumpet its content as justification for their Jew-hatred. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> I sincerely doubt that I > would have a problem with it if I were born and raised a Nazi. Do you > understand where I am coming from? > No. There's a moral relativism at work in your statement that I can't fathom. It's as if you're saying that you can't choose between anything because everything is valid to the person who holds the opinion. Basically, you don't have a right to your opinion because it might somehow conflict with someone else's. > I'm looking at things as objectively as I > can, to find some fundamental truths in this thing we call life. Why? > Because I have this.integrity if you will, to seek truth, no matter > harsh that truth may be. I absolutely reject any and all assumption sets, > and replace them with these truths that hold as much truth as I can find. > It's how I remain sane. > But you've denied the very existence of truth, since it's all relative to you. Where's the 'integrity' in that? Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Best Superbowl Ever! was>RE: Janet Jackson "s Right Breast Provoke s Outrage
I don't think it was the best Super Bowl ever, although it was one of the best ever. I'd put Giants-Bills as the best (besides the exciting finish, and the buildup - during the beginning of what would later be Gulf War I, the game was extremely well played - neither team committed a turnover, the only time that has happened in a Super Bowl). Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> Sometimes forgeting (and forgiving) IS the choice with wisdom. > A) Judaism teaches that only the wronged party may forgive. I can't forgive the Nazis for the Holocaust because I was not a victim. B) I believe very strongly that forgetting the Holocaust would be a further betrayal of its victims. I also don't think that remembering the Holocaust in any way is a negative. A remarkably high percentage of Holocaust survivors went on to lead fulfilling lives after World War II. They married, had families, built careers and lives. Did they have problems adjusting? Did they suffer some guilt, some trauma, nightmares? Of course. But they did not let the horror completely ruin their triumph at LIVING when Hitler tried to kill them. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> Blasphemy > against the Jewish God, which they believed Jesus guilty of, while a > capital offense in the Law of Moses, was not any sort of offense at all > under Roman law. So those Jews (note that I am not saying all Jews were > responsible, just as not all Arabs were responsible for 9/11) had to > convince the Romans to find Jesus guilty of something which merited the > death penalty under Roman law in order to have him executed. > Except no death penalty for this had ever been carried out. It was said that a Sanhedrin that ordered one execution in 70 years was a bloodthirsty court. What _could_ be done under Jewish law and what _was_ done were often quite different. In any case, this is irrelevant, since what is at stake in the whole issue of Gibson's movie is not what the truth was (hard to determine), but what too many people have taken the truth to be over the millennia: that ALL Jews are guilty of killing Jesus and that therefore ANY Jew can be attacked and even murdered in retribution. And, over the millennia, too many Jews to count HAVE been attacked and murdered. And Jews feel that we are STILL at risk of being attacked and murdered. This is not to say that Gibson should not have made his movie. But for him not to be aware of Jewish sensitivities in this matter, which I do not find at all an overreaction, is remarkably insensitive of him. Given his association with his father's extremely right-wing Catholic sect, I think the onus is on him to prove that he's not anti-Semitic. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> None of them are perfect. > That's for sure. Most Jews use one version or another based on the Jewish Publication Society's translation, and that has a lot of figurative rather than literal translations. The Conservative movement's commentary is always pointing out where it thinks the JPS translation has errors. I understand that most people cannot read either the Hebrew Tanakh or the Greek New Testament. I'm just saying that where I _do_ know that there is a mistranslation, I don't feel unjustified in pointing it out. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> Agreed. I frequently quote from the KJV because a lot of people have heard > the familiar passages from that translation, even if they're not very > familiar with the Bible. Many experts will say that more modern translations like > the NIV may indeed be more accurate, but there's something about the KJV that > sticks in the mind and just sounds more "scriptural" than most of the later > translations. > Well, as a Jew who reads biblical Hebrew (a little) I prefer to deal with the original (sort of, since we're not exactly sure if what we have now really was the original text of the Torah). The KJV has a LOT of mistranslations. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> Thou shalt not kill. > To translate the Hebrew accurately, it says, "Don't murder." Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> Ah yes. You "believe". I for one, believe that views like that, hold back > any sort of honest discourse. Furthermore, to brand something evil, is to > show either a narrow-minded approach to things, or a faithful belief in what > you are spoon-fed. Prove to me however, that evil is a substantial thing and > I may change my view of evil being a man-made concept. > Forgive me, but what the hell are you talking about? Are you honestly saying that the unquestionably anti-Semitic statements issued by these unquestionably anti-Semitic organizations in response to Gibson's movie AREN'T evil? Are you honestly claiming that labeling these statements evil is somehow more evil than the statements themselves? How can you have an "honest discourse" with Nazis? All you can do is label them for the filth they are and try to keep others from being infected by their evil. And yes, it's clearly evil. And of course it's man-made. People do evil things. That's precisely what evil is. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> If a group of Jews make a movie about WWII in the year 3950 will there be > Germans complaining that it sheds them in a bad light? > I just hope and pray that there are still Jews around in the year 3950 to make a movie about WWII (or to do anything else). Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Reviews for Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"
> I believe that you are furthering the causes of these broods of vipers > by republishing their venom. > > I won't even give their words the respect shown by repeating them, even > to point out the evil they contain. > Far more to the point, will Mel Gibson repudiate their hate-filled verbal vomit, or will he pretend he has absolutely no responsibility to acknowledge the use these filth are making of his movie? (Or does he secretly agree with them?) Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: gud ol Repgnatcan suthrn edukasion
> And yet, another State without an evolution curriculum is that right-wing > hotbed of Illinois. > Illinois has an extreme split between the northeastern corner of Chicago and the rest of the state. The southern half of the state is actually basically eastern Missouri. Illinois is, alas, by no means a liberal state. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
> Incidentally, Tom, when do you ever follow that rule? > Or does it only apply to liberals? Speaking about > Republicans when you have no knowledge, that's not > exactly a problem for you, is it? > Not sure I can recall the last time I accused anyone of any political stripe of murder. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: and we thought we had too much snow...
Looks like business is booming at the snow quarry...if the new Doctor Who has an episode set on an ice planet, they can film it there. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
In a message dated 2/1/04 10:46:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > God knows what really happened. > Exactly. YOU DON'T know. You weren't there. I wasn't there. Stop talking like you were. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Elements?
> element 115 will be designated Ununpentium > Except it might be 114 or 116... Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
War in Iraq "unnecessary"?
The Army War College thinks the Bush Administration has been ignoring Afghanistan in its zeal to go after Iraq. Army War College essay calls Iraq war 'distraction' By THOMAS E. RICKS Washington Post WASHINGTON -- A scathing new report published by the Army War College broadly criticizes the Bush administration's handling of the war on terrorism, accusing it of taking a detour into an "unnecessary" war in Iraq and pursuing an "unrealistic" quest against terrorism that may lead to U.S. wars with states that pose no serious threat . The report, by visiting professor Jeffrey Record, who is on the faculty of the Air War College at Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala., warns that as a result of those mistakes, the Army is "near the breaking point." It recommends, among other things, scaling back the scope of the "global war on terrorism" and instead focusing on the narrower threat posed by the al-Qaida terrorist network. "[The] global war on terrorism as currently defined and waged is dangerously indiscriminate and ambitious, and accordingly . . . its parameters should be readjusted," Record writes. Currently, he adds, the anti-terrorism campaign "is strategically unfocused, promises more than it can deliver, and threatens to dissipate U.S. military resources in an endless and hopeless search for absolute security." Record, a veteran defense specialist and author of six books on military strategy and related issues, was an aide to former Sen. Sam Nunn when the Georgia Democrat was chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. His essay, published by the Army War College's Strategic Studies Institute, carries the standard disclaimer that its views are those of the author and don't necessarily represent those of the Army, the Pentagon, or the U.S. government. But retired Army Col. Douglas C. Lovelace Jr., the director of the Army War College's Strategic Studies Institute, whose Web site carries Record's 56-page monograph, hardly distanced himself from it. "I think that the substance that Jeff brings out in the article really, really needs to be considered," he said. Academic freedom Publication of the essay was approved by the Army War College's commandant, Maj. Gen. David H. Huntoon Jr., Lovelace said. He said he and Huntoon expected the study to be controversial, but added, "He considers it to be under the umbrella of academic freedom." Larry DiRita, the top Pentagon spokesman, said he had not read the Record study. He added: "If the conclusion is that we need to be scaling back in the global war on terrorism, it's not likely to be on my reading list anytime soon." A 'war of choice' Many of Record's arguments, such as the contention that Saddam Hussein's Iraq was deterred and did not present a threat, have been made before by critics of the administration. Iraq, he concludes, "was a war-of-choice distraction from the war of necessity against" al-Qaida. But it is unusual to have such views published by the War College, the Army's premier academic institution. In addition, the essay goes further than many critics in examining the Bush administration's handling of the war on terrorism. Record's core criticism is that the administration is biting off more than it can chew. "A cardinal rule of strategy is to keep your enemies to a manageable number," he writes. He scoffs at the administration's policy of seeking to transform and democratize the Middle East." The essay concludes with several recommendations. Some are fairly non-controversial, such as increasing the size of the Army and the Marine Corps. But he also says the United States should scale back its ambitions and be prepared to settle for a "friendly autocracy" rather than a genuine democracy in Iraq. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: More good reasons to Distrust Corporations and Drug Companies
In a message dated 1/29/04 5:20:14 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Not "the equation", a method for ~solving~ a family of equations. > But that's still a description of the natural universe - the method is as much part of mathematics as the equations themselves. It exists independent of the person discovering it. It's like figuring out gravity or finding a subatomic particle. You didn't "invent" it - it was always there. That's nothing at all like inventing a machine or concocting a process or combining various elements into a new pharmaceutical. You can, in my opinion, get _credit_ for figuring out a mathematical method, but how in heck can you _patent_ it? Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: More good reasons to Distrust Corporations and Drug Companies
> Personaly I think that scientific information, discoveries should > never be secret. I had a physics prof who had a pattent on an > solution to a class of equations. (don't remember details), So, > everyone now knows the information, can use the solution in their > work, but if they use the solution in a way that generates income, > they owe him for it. > I didn't realize you could patent the truth. I thought patents were for inventions and discoveries. To patent an equation would be like patenting a syllogism - it strikes me as permitting someone to claim that he invented a truth rather than described it. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
> There were a number of young men in the South who fought for the > Confederacy not because they were trying to defend slavery, but because > they felt allegiance to their states before their country. While the > simplistic interpretation, and maybe the most correct one, of the Civil > War was that it was about the slavery issue, a lot of those who fought > for the Confederacy did not justify their participation for that > reason. "Slavery" doesn't get to what was really going on in the hearts > and minds of many of those who fought. (And those in the North weren't > primarily fighting to free the slaves, either, although there were those > who went to war willingly for that end.) > > Some people might slap the "oil" interpretation over anything the US > does in the Middle East. Evidently that is not the motivation for a > large number of people supporting the current actions. > > Poke at this parallel, scream at me if you like, but this is where *my* > mind went in the face of the oil/no, not oil argument. Substitute any > idea that might be self-serving for Bush himself but not supported by > supporters of the war for oil, if you like, and I'll throw the same > Civil War situation back again. > Let's say that you're right, and that many (maybe even most) of the Confederate soldiers were not fighting to defend slavery. So what? The motivation of their leaders CERTAINLY was primarily if not exclusively to defend slavery. THAT was the "state's right" that all the states seceded to protect. The Civil War was ALL about slavery; yes, there were other factors, but they all came back to slavery. Once the war began, people on each side fought for many reasons; but if there had not been any slavery, there would have been no Civil War. That said, I don't claim that this is a war over oil. And even if it were, calling it that would not denigrate the soldiers, who are fighting for their country. But there could be - and in the Civil War apparently was - a major disconnect between the motivations of the people doing the fighting and that of the people who sent them to fight. (Southern soldiers, cynical about the plantation owners, called the war 'A rich man's war and a poor man's fight'.) To understand the origins of a war, it's perhaps less important to understand the people who were sent to fight. They rarely know much about the strategy and policy that led to the outbreak of the war. Especially when the leadership dissembles or conceals or deceives or exaggerates - c.f, Vietnam then and Iraq now. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Doing Business With The Enemy
> In all seriousness, I still don't get it. Other than > such displays of force, what do you think a Qaddafi > would respond to? As far as I can tell, _nothing_ > except force is likely to get results from someone > like him. > There have been stories that he also responded to such things as his growing awareness of Libya's backwardness, isolation, and economic stagnation, his own approaching mortality, the death of his son, along with fear of what happened in Iraq. There are stories that this has been in the works for several years, although it may have been accelerated by what happened in Iraq. I distrust unitary explanations. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Whale explodes in Taiwanese city
> No post-explosion pictures. > > No sound. > > Still icky. > > Probably work-safe. > Unless you work at Greenpeace... Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bone Phone
> Japanese telecom carriers, pioneers of internet-capable and > picture-snapping handsets, have now come up with the world's first > mobile phone that enables users to listen to calls inside their > heads - by conducting sound through bone. > Thus validating every poor schizophrenic in the world... Maybe that's how come Joan of Arc heard voices...combine one of those phones with an electromagnetic time warp... "Nine out of the ten voices in my head are telling me NOT to shoot" Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Social Programs (was: Re: Martian Emotion)
> People who think that social programs are a waste of taxpayer money have > failed to learn from history. The poor overthrowing their own nation's > government due to feeling neglected and oppressed is something that has > happened repeatedly (The French Revolution, The Russian Revolution, etc.). > If poor people feel they have no other choice, and their numbers grow large > enough, they will act. I, personally, can not believe that the nation > doesn't see a problem in having a bunch of out-of-work, disgruntled, and > desperate computer programmers in the country. If skilled, out-of-work > programmers formed a rebellion, due to the world-wide dependance on computer > and network technologies, they could potentially bring the whole > technological world to its knees without firing a single gun-shot (just > imagine something like the "I Love You" virus, but written by a huge team of > programmers, with multiple vectors and exploits, and distributed as a > coordinated attack, not just a random propagation... a deffinate > circumstance that would be devistating, and could be easily avoided by > keeping the citizens employed and contented). > I don't object to what you're saying, but revolutions tend to be led by the educated classes, however much they may be fueled by the deprived. The French and Russian revolutions were both led almost entirely, especially early on, by highly educated but disgruntled and disaffected young men. There's a lot of contingency and luck in life, and I especially think we should be spending more on education. But I'm not sure how much the government can do (less concerned than some of the more conservative people on this list about how much it _should_ do). Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: War on AIDS [was: Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan]
> Here in Brazil the number of children born with inherited AIDS > decreased from about 8% to about 3% in the past few years. We > _may_ have it under control. > Mazal tov, but that has nothing to do with Bush reneging on his promise by making a splashy announcement about increasing American contributions to the fight against AIDS and then not actually asking Congress for any additional money. He always makes these feel-good announcements to get the publicity benefit, then, after the press and public have turned their attention elsewhere, quietly forgetting all about actually requesting any of the promised money. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan
> Actually, I'm quite sure that Bush is laughing at you. > Let him. The man's such a worthless buffoon, I take that as a badge of honor. At least he's not fooling ME. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan
> Obviously it is only a start. The converse of "No bucks = No Buck Rogers" > is also true. Open your mind, man. And your heart. > Open your eyes, man. And your brain. You're taking the wish for the deed. Bush is infamous for propsing things that sound nice, so he can some nice publicity, and then later, when the cameras are gone, not funding them (remember his AIDS initiative? Remember No Child Left Behind?) This is just More Of The Same. He's not serious. There's no way we can pay for this, given the budget deficits he intentionally engineered SO THAT THERE'D BE NO MONEY TO PAY FOR STUFF LIKE THIS. If you really buy into this, you're being taken. Bush and his people are chortling at your credulity. "Man, can you believe they bought this? A-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah!" Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Does this pass the smell test?
Anyone find it more than curious that the Bush Administration, which has been doing everything it can to obstruct the inquiry into who leaked Valerie Plame's name & undercover CIA status, is leaping to investigate whether or not Paul O'Neill leaked secret documents in his book? Smells mighty fishy to me. Where are all the Republicans and Conservatives who screamed to investigate every single tiny little rumor about malfeasance in the Clinton Administration? Why aren't they demanding the White House cooperate fully with the Plame inquiry? (Which they could solve in an afternoon if Bush wanted to.) We all know the answer, of course - there's no way the Republicans will investigate their own president. This stinks. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub's Conspiracy to Invade Iraq Revealed by Ex-Admin Official
My real problem with any attempt to defend the fact that Bush came into office determined to get rid of Saddam by saying the reason was to bring about regime change, save the people from Iraq, and be nicey was, during the 2000 campaign, Bush repeatedly derided the very idea of "nation-building" and intervention anywhere except for cold calculated national interest. Now, all of a sudden, he's in office and he's suddenly interested in nation building? Come on. He wanted to get rid of Saddam because he wanted to do something his father couldn't, and he wanted to project US power. But he needed a pretext because he knew he never could get American support for a naked, causeless invasion. Saddam Hussein is a monster, and I'm glad he's gone, but there are monsters in China and Syria and North Korea and Cuba and Libya - why don't we go after them? North Korea is far more dangerous to us than Iraq, and Cuba is 90 miles off our coast and a chip-shot if we really really wanted to take Castro out. You cannot convince me that George W. Bush had any reason to go into Iraq other than that he simply wanted to. He came into office determined to get Saddam, and he was willing to say anything it would take to bring that about. He had to wait until he could find a pretext he could present as plausible, and he had to sex up the intelligence even to get WMD to work. But this was not a humanitarian invasion to save the people of Iraq - otherwise, why did he have to wait two years? Why did he completely dismiss the very value of nation building in 2000? Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub's Conspiracy to Invade Iraq Revealed by Ex-Admin Official
> At any rate, who cares about this stuff? About the most damning claim > O'Neill has is that Bush actually had far more pre-planning for the war in > Iraq than we have previously none. So, we are going to pillory Bush for > planning ahead? > Um...well...considering that he never mentioned any of this at any point, and that the reasons he's given for invading Iraq have turned out not to be the case (no WMD, no real Al Qaeda connection, no responsibility for 9-11) - doesn't it bother you at ALL that this man appears to have come into office planning an aggressive war against a country that we now know (and he must have known then) did not really pose any threat to us? I repeat: this is not the Pentagon having contingency plans. After all, I doubt seriously that the Bush White House was calling up the plans for war against Argentina or Belgium. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Extraordinary Rendition
> Anyhow, I will now humbly wait for all of the Brin-L's resident liberals to > point out that interrogtating a foreigner without a lawyer (if indeed that > this story is true) does not constitute a "high crime and misdemeanor." > Don't ever travel in a foreign country in case you get on the wrong side of someone official who decides to treat you like we treated this guy. (Heck, if Ashcroft has his way much longer, don't travel in this country.) It's not the "interrogating a foreigner without a lawyer" that's so objectionable (even though many court cases say that foreigners arrested in this country have some of the same rights as citizens and lawful residents; and, in any case, foreigners arrested in this country are entitled by treaty to speak with someone from their embassy or consulate; and we don't normally deport them to a third country in order to be tortured - what part of "interrogating" is that?). We don't arrest people in this country without probable cause. That applies to foreigners, too. Either there are rights for all, or there aren't really RIGHTS for anyone. To let this continue risks them deciding to do it to anyone they want for any reason - or none. I am completely unable to understand why you dismiss this so cavalierly. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Extraordinary Rendition
> Perhaps you arrest and tort..., ah, > thoroughly interrogate 99 basically innocent profilees to snare a single > operative or active supporter. > We. Don't. Torture. Period. Besides being despicable, it almost never works. Most people will say ANYTHING to stop being tortured. I understand the "ticking timebomb" argument (not that I agree with it), but that can hardly apply to a situation where you basically torture anyone you can find without any probable cause at all. To some extent, a war against terror requires some necessary if distasteful tradeoffs. I think what is going on at the moment goes WAY far beyond the bare minimum necessary. I think Bush and Ashcroft have contempt for civil liberties and are overjoyed to have an excuse to do what they want to anyway. If distasteful methods sometimes have to be utilized in the field, under the exigencies of an ongoing operation or a well reasoned fear that an attack is imminent, well, maybe (although it makes it difficult if not impossible to complain if and when the other side treats your people the same way). But that clearly did not happen in this case. They arrested the guy for almost no reason, interrogated him, had absolutely no reason to think he was any kind of terrorist - and had him tortured anyway. Practicalities aside, why doesn't that infuriate you? How can you defend treating the guy this way? Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Extraordinary Rendition
> Responding to another list member's ghost post with "hateful, hate filled > clones": too upset to come up with more adjectives? I'd say you and your > lot are the ones filled with hate and madness. I'm happy even with pipes in > my kitchen frozen, the cable being out, my cat being sick and numerous > (very minor) health problems of my own. > I'm not filled with hate - I'm angry. I think what Bush and his maniacs are doing to this country is dangerous and despicable. I think what they did to that poor Canadian was outrageous and frightening. How come when right-wingers scream, that's okay, but when liberals get angry, that's not? Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Extraordinary Rendition
> It is time someone asked. What our government did to Maher Arar is worse > than anything the British did to our Colonial forefathers. It was worse > than anything J. Edgar Hoover did to alleged Communists, civil rights > workers and anti-war activists during his long program of dirty tricks. > Wasting your time. There is not a single right-wing fanatic on this list (or in dittoland) who will give a damn about what we did to this poor bastard. It's far too easy to scream "war against terror" to justify anything they want to do or cover up. The fact that Bush and Ashcroft between them are in the process of jettisoning much of what makes America WORTH defending in the first place is completely lost on Rush and his hateful, hate-filled clones. This is why Dubya is the worst president we've ever had, and John Ashcroft is by far the worst Attorney-General (by such a far margin that he makes Edwin Meese and John Mitchell look almost acceptable by comparison). I know this sounds inflammatory and I don't care. I don't see how anyone can defend men who can perpetrate such an outrageous injustice. There is nothing that justifies this, nothing at all. If we can't defeat our enemies by any other means than by becoming them, then we don't deserve to win. This guy did nothing and they treated him like he personally guided the planes into the Twin Towers by wire. George Bush and John Ashcroft are the worst kind of scum - men who hide despicable actions behind airy, lofty motives. They don't even have the guts to admit their villainy. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub's Conspiracy to Invade Iraq Revealed by Ex-Admin Official
> And there are plans for invading N Korea, Cuba, Russia, China, Japan, > Columbia, New Zealand, Spain, Canada..any country you want. It's what > the military does. > Plans in the Pentagon are not the same thing as plans in the White House. I think the point is not that the Defense Dept. was doing its job but that the newly installed Bush administration was thinking about invading Iraq months before Sept. 11 gave them what they would use as an ostensible reason. Given that Dubya's entire presidency is basically about doing stuff his father couldn't, this does not surprise me. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: A List A List!!!!
> 9. You will never find anybody who can give you a clear and compelling > reason why we observe daylight savings time. > Not true. > 14. Your friends love you anyway. > Definitely true, at least in my case. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Republicans Attempting to get Bible classified as a 'Textbook' in CA in Constitutional Amendment
The King James version is nice English but a poor translation, at least of the Hebrew books. As literature, it's interesting; teaching it in its historical context would have some didactic use, but I'm not sure of any other point. As a Jew, I'm naturally suspicious of any right-wing Christian attempt to shove their religion down my (or anyone else's) throat. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Victorian Gollum
> In answer to zMUD question of ever having seen Andy Sirkis, Gollum/Smeagol, > in anything else, he was in Topsy-Turvy as the chicken walking Choregrapher. > That's an outstanding movie. Highly entertaining. Delightful. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Scouted: "Only those who sacrificed..."
http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=16205 Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Rush Limbaugh is a hypocrite
> Rather, I am referring to the fact that Roe vs. Wade is the _original_ > "right to privacy case" in the United States. The US Supreme Court in > that case, did not find a right to abortion in that case - how could they? > - but rather found that 'the penumbra of the Constitution' contains a right > to privacy. > I believe the first "right to privacy" case was actually Griswold vs Connecticut in the 1960s, which overturned that state's law against the use of contraception. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Rush Limbaugh is a hypocrite
> As opposed, of course, to how well the Left policies it own. > Is that always your answer? "You're another"? Deal with the issue at hand: Rush Limbaugh is demanding an accommodation for himself that he has expressly insisted, loudly and without compassion or mercy, not be accorded anyone else who has done similar things. That's blatant hypocrisy. It doesn't matter who on the "Left" (which hardly exists anymore, alas, and which certainly does not have the ability to reach as many people as Rush Limbaugh does) may have done what. Rush wants to be treated in a way that he has always bleated no one else should be treated. Thing is, when just about ANYONE gets in trouble, they suddenly discover all kinds of rights that they may never have thought about or even wanted to deny other people. Oliver North was not acquitted, after all; his conviction was overturned on a technicality. Funny, I don't recall any "lawnorder" types bitching about permissive judges when that happened. It's just human nature. Right-wingers like to say, "a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged." They fail to mention the converse, "a liberal is a conservative who's been arrested." Only thing is, Rush is such an obnoxious pig, so loud and so absolutely certain of his own genius and infallibility and perfect rectitude, that you can't blame people for piling on when he brings all this shit down upon himself, and then acts like he did nothing wrong, and it's all someone else's fault, and then hides behind his lawyers - exactly the kind of behavior that he has always shrieked about when someone he doesn't like does. Why doesn't he practice what he's been preaching? Again, it's simple human nature, but he has never been so understanding of anyone else's foibles. You'd hope being revealed as flawed would teach him a lesson; but I guess you'd be wrong. You deal with Rush, since he's one of your own (and you can have him). Leave the Left to the liberals. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: First Mad Cow Case in U.S.
A) Veneman did not appear to indicate any second thoughts about American cattle eating animal byproducts. B) Wonder what this will do to the US blood supply. They already exclude people from donating blood who've lived for more than a certain amount of time in England and other places that have had cases of mad cow disease. If there are any significant number of cases here, what will they do? Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Becoming a Compassionless Con servative
> > How is this mother any different than the neglectful wealthy parents of > such > > worthless scum as Paris Hilton? > > > > Thats a rhetorical question, right?!!! > > If you mean, that it answers itself (and the answer is, "not in any significant way"), then yes. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Becoming a Compassionless Conservative
How is this mother any different than the neglectful wealthy parents of such worthless scum as Paris Hilton? Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: A sad, sad, day for the Sci-Fi Channel
> As if their incredibly bad taste in programming isn't enough, on the > Friday after Christmas, the Sci-Fi Channel will be doing an all day > Tremors marathon - every episode in order, and the movies. It's almost > painful. > I dunno, the first movie is very funny. Never saw any of the other iterations, though... Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fw: Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
The temp score they're using for the trailer is the Stargate SG-1 theme... Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Edge of the Galaxy
If we travel through this "extra cosmic arm in the Milky Way that they believe wraps around the outskirts of the vast galaxy like a thick gas border" will we become superhuman like Gary Lockwood and Sally Kellerman in "Where No Man Has Gone Before"? Kewel! ;) Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: CNN Breaking News
> Looks like they're doing DNA tests to confirm. I wonder what that's going > to mean to Iraq in both the short and long terms. > It'll probably lead to a more widespread acceptance of the validity of DNA testing throughout the Middle East... Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Scouted: Tom DeLay to NYC: Drop Dead!
http://nytimes.com/2003/12/01/nyregion/01SHIP.html Tom DeLay, despicable if all-powerful Speaker of the House, wants delegates to the Republican convention in NYC next summer to eschew the city's hotels and restaurants and instead be his captives, er, sorry, guests on a luxury cruise liner a former staffer of his represents that will be moored in the Hudson River. So much for his promises to such prominent New York Republicans as Governor George Pataki and Mayor Michael Bloomberg (admittedly a Democrat for most of his life until realizing he could never get the Democratic nomination to run for Mayor of New York) that the convention would bring untold millions to New York's economy as well as showcase the Republican Party as the new party of all the American people and not just the fat rich white southern conservative christian straight men who have been its only concern for the past 30 years. Interesting, innit, that even when DeLay *TRIES* to fake everyone out and pretend to be anything other than a southern racist bastard, he just can't do it. The truth will out. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] CO redistricting struck down by state Supreme Court
> See, Texas Isn't The Only State With Gerrymandering Issues Maru ;) > Sadly, it also isn't the only state with cheating greedy Republican scumbags, either... Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Scouted: When Asthma Attacks
When Asthma Attacks A new report from Clean the Air reveals that the ill-conceived energy bill, should it be enacted into law, would havehttp://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2003/11/20/news/02energybzbigs.txt";> severe public health consequences around the country â especially for children. At issue is a little noticed provision in the massive legislation that would "http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/20/national/20POWE.html?pagewanted=print&position=";>delay for years pollution reductions needed to achieve ozone smog clean air standards in the dirtiest areas" by allowing "communities with unhealthy air quality...to point the finger at pollution sources outside their borders." On three separate occasions federal courts have ruled the practice illegal. The study shows that delays in implementing the Clean Air Act would lead to 4,900 hospitalizations due to respiratory illness, 387,400 asthma attacks and over 573,000 missed school days each year. Some areas of the country would behttp://cta.policy.net/reports/na_slippage.pdf?PROACTIVE_ID=cecfcfcbc8cec9c9c6c5cecfcfcfc5cececccdccc9cbc7c9c6c5cf";> particularly hard hit. In Pennsylvania non-attainment of ozone standards would lead to more than 47,000 missed school days, more that 34,000 asthma attacks and more than 440 hospital admissions for respiratory illness. Ohio: 29,000 lost school days, 20,000 asthma attacks, 287 hospital admission. Virginia: 15,000 lost school days, 11,000 asthma attacks, 129 hospital admissions. (Find out the impact in your statehttp://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/20/national/20POWE.html?pagewanted=print&position=";> HERE. Skeptical? Review the methodology of the study, conducted by the nation's leading air pollution consultants,http://cta.policy.net/reports/ozone_rollback_methodology.pdf?PROACTIVE_ID=cecfcfcbc8cec9c7cec5cecfcfcfc5cececccdccc9cacacbc7c5cf";> HERE.)Â Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I don't think we're in any danger of Johnnie Cochrane defending Michael Jackson..." ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Family Guy may return
I loved the pure surreal nuttiness of Family Guy. The talking dog that everyone simply accepts...Stewie's megalomaniacal madness. But I also loved Futurama, too. Bring 'em both back! (Anyone but me notice the problem Fox has with shows that start with "F"? Family Guy, Futurama, Firefly, Fastlane...) Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply.
> Hmm, interesting perspective. I wonder if the folks in Burbank feel the > same way as you do. Which facility were you working for? > Burbank? They shut us down to save the existing Lockheed facility in Sunnyvale. I worked for the Astro Space division in East Windsor, NJ. (They also shut down the Astro Space plant in Valley Forge, PA.) It was originally RCA Astro Space, until GE bought RCA. It became GE Astro Space, and they ruined it by replacing experienced astrospace engineers with inexperienced engineer managers under the asinine belief that a manager who managed a washing machine factory in Memphis could equally well manage a commercial communications satellite facility. It didn't work. GE eventually sold us to Martin Marietta. Then Lockheed came in and bought out the Martin Marietta executives and shut us down to save their own factories. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply.
> Martin and Lockheed merged, creating Lockheed Martin > It was a merger in name only, believe me. I lost my job as a result of the so-called "merger," which basically ended with Lockheed running the show, shutting down Martin facilities and putting Martin employees out of work, and Martin's top-level management pocketing big buy-out bonuses. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply.
> do you seriously think that it's easy to become > the CEO of a major corporation? These guys are (in > general) like Major League Baseball players. > Obviously there are exceptions, but most of the time, > even the worst one is so much better at what he does > than the average person that it's barely possible to > even understand it. That's true of almost any > competitive system. Professional athletes are so much > more physically capable than you or I that they might > as well be a different species.One reason GE has so > convincingly outperformed other companies is its > tradition of superb management. Jack Welch and Jeff > Immelt weren't chosen by accident, and their > performance echoes it. > > This isn't to say that all CEOs are competent - > although I bet there isn't one in a Fortune 500 > company who couldn't do a better job than any person > on this list (myself very much included) by a very > large margin. But the performance level involved is > astonishingly high. > I'm sorry, but this is just not possibly true. There is some skill involved in being a CEO along with a lot of experience. And there is no doubt some such thing as managerial talent, although I doubt it can be measured by any objective standard the way one can measure the speed of a fastball or time a wide receiver in a 40 yard dash. But it's just not the same thing Too much about a CEO's performance has to be inferred (stock price, etc.), and the fact that so much of their compensation is set by committees that are often hand-picked by the CEO, and that they often serve on each other's boards - there's just too much asskissing in business, that it practically becomes a tautology: how do you know he's a good CEO? Because his company is successful. GE is a very rare example of a company that is clearly successful because of its CEO - although you would not have wanted to work for RCA Astrospace when GE bought it, because they damn near ruined the company (remember the Mars Observer disaster?) Most CEOs get their job because they were successful timeservers who rose through the ranks. They may be intelligent, know their business, be good managers, etc., but few of them show any real spark of brilliance - because few of anyone shows any real spark of brilliance. The difference between, say, Norm Augustine (who ruined Martin Marietta Astrospace after Lockheed bought it out) and Michael Jordan is, there's really only one Michael Jordan. There's quite a few people who could approximate Norm Augustine. True talent is very very rare. There are plenty of business leaders who are good at what they do but are not truly talented in the sense that Baryshnikov or Stephen King or Mary-Chapin Carpenter or Joe Montana is. Let's not confuse the issue. They get overpaid because they control to a large extent the system that sets their pay. And they vote Republican because they figure that's the best way for them to continue to receive and retain their undeserved largesse. They're selfishly voting in their own personal interest. If they want to do that, fine, but let's not dignify it by calling it some great principle. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Abortion: Pro-Lifers Foil Bombing Plot
> In the pro-lifers don't do enough to oppose violence against abortionists > department: > > > http://www.lifenews.com/nat209.html > > Investigators revealed more information on Thursday about Stephen John > Jordi, the man whom FBI agents arrested this week on suspicions of plotting > to firebomb several abortion facilities in Florida and nationwide. > > Pastors in the small Florida town of Coconut Creek informed police about > him at least four days before he was apprehended. > Not much to say here except, anyone who really believes in American democracy should condemn violence of any stripe. Serious opponents of abortion should (and most do) realize that the violent actions of the extremist fringe of their movement do nothing to advance their cause. Regardless of the issue, and of the sincerity of one's views, for this country to work, we all need to play by the same rules, one of which is, you can argue as vehemently as you want for your beliefs, and you can engage in peaceful protest and civil disobedience. But once you resort to violence, you're breaking the compact. If sometimes the "right-to-life" crowd is criticized for not doing enough to curb the violence-prone factions of their movement, that's because all too often they DON'T do enough. This draws attention precisely BECAUSE it is rare. Paul Hill and his sympathizers, and anyone who thinks the sincerity of their opposition to abortion justifies their committing murder, should be unequivocably reviled by true "pro-lifers", excommunicated, abominated, shunned and in every other way made to feel completely unwelcome. But too often that doesn't happen. You get the attitude, "Well, what they did wasn't right, but I understand their frustration," etc. Which is a tacit condoning of evil. This is a good start. Let's see some more. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
> Out of curiosity, do you object to Tom Clancy novels? After all, they > contain plausible scenarios by which our country and government heads could > be attacked by all sorts of terrorists, resulting in the deaths of millions. > Oh, come on, it's not even remotely comparable. In Clancy's novels, the terrorists are always quite clearly the BAD GUYS. He never muses about how something awful could happen and then pretends to be opposed to it. It's always quite clear that Clancy really definitely IS opposed to the evil in his books. On the other hand, this Christian guy's musings, especially with that rather pallid introduction, do not really sound too much to me like The Turner Diaries. So I think we're paying far too much attention to one little nobody's nothings. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Veterens Bushwhacked
What do you expect from these scumbags in the White House? They announce nice-sounding proposals and reap the benefit from people who want to believe that their (in this case not really) elected officials are on the side of the angels. Then, after getting good press for their announcement - and after the press has turned its attention elsehwere - they quietly do nothing (at best; the exact opposite of what they announced, at worst). Then, whenever anyone points this out, someone who desperately wants to continue to delude himself that the Bushitters are not cynical lying scum, bleats that they should still get the credit for meaning well. But the list of broken promises is staggering: Afghanistan, the environment, veterans, schools, international AIDS funding - all impressive sounding initiatives, all left to rot and vanish - how long can they get away with this cynical manipulation? Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply.
> I, for one, don't think Fox is unbiased. I think it's > about as biased as CNN or PBS - considerably less than > NPR, though, to be honest. It's just in the opposite > direction. The hysterical reaction to Fox, it seems > to me, has more to do with the sudden shock of the > leftist intelligentisia at finding that it doesn't > monopolize American information any more. > With all due respect, this is just nonsense. Fox is openly antagonistic to the left - openly so. Derisive, disrespectful, jingoistic, etc. They don't make even the slightest pretense otherwise. CNN at least makes an attempt to show the other side. PBS and NPR are also much more variegated than you give them credit for - not to mention reaching a far smaller audience. If you like Fox, fine. If you agree with them, that's your right. But don't pretend to yourself or to anyone else that they are anything except, essentially, the TV arm of the Republican Party. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Scouted: Alabama chickens come home to roost
ALABAMA CHICKENS COME HOME TO ROOST: This fall, state and national conservative groups led the charge to kill Alabama Gov. Bob Riley's tax redistribution efforts and now aren't willing to pay the price. The Republican governor warned at the time that the cash-strapped state was in dire fiscal straits, as he attempted to pull in revenue while easing taxes on the state's poor by shifting more of the burden to corporations. Now, with the coffers gone dry, the government is having to slice services to the very bone. But http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20031110&Category=APN&ArtNo=311100815&SectionCat";>the disconnect over paying for services has already set in. While 68% of the state rejected increasing taxes for the wealthy corporations, a new poll shows a majority is strongly opposing plans to "cut education spending by almost $200 million and to eliminate funding for 3,400 teaching positions across the state." And believe it or not, one of the men leading the opposition to the tax is now leading the complaint about the cuts; Roger McConnell, of Mobile, is complaining that "Riley should not be cutting teachers." Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
> Its a good thing Catholics are Jews Fool, or else you might really have > gotten yourself in trouble at the very least you probably wouldn't be > allowed to write football columns any more > "Catholics are Jews"? Um...since when...? Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [L3] RE: religious/political question
> Yet. I wouldn't put it beyond a fanatic to do something unfortunate. > (Remember a certain chap called Rabin? I do...) > There was also Baruch Goldstein in 1994, I'm ashamed to say. The difference is, most Jews worldwide were aghast at both. With a few despicable exceptions, there was hardly any approval of what either did, and far less celebrating. There is certainly no culture wide notion in contemporary Judaism (outside a handful of tiny, marginalized groups) that violence against civilians is legitimate. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Woo-hoo!
1. EVOLUTION: IT'S A NATURAL LAW, AND IT'S IN TEXAS SCHOOLBOOKS. By a vote of 11 - 4, the Texas State Board of Education yesterday rejected efforts of religious groups, the Discovery Institute in particular, to get science textbooks adopted that conform to the religious tenets of "intelligent design." A letter bearing the names of 550 scientists and teachers who live and work in Texas was sent to members of the Board a few days before the vote urging them to support "high standards of science." The American Physical Society assisted Texas physicists wishing to be part of this overwhelming display of support for science. Before the vote, a Dallas Morning News editorial was troubled by "scientists in thrall to their own dogmas," but a science reporter exulted in the outcome, quoting a biology professor who said it, "sent a strong message that Texas does have high standards in science." About the Dallas Morning News, however... Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: republican browncoat's latest attack on democracy
> "It's saying we're not going to allow the opposition party to ask > questions about the way we use tax money," said R. Scott Lilly, > Democratic staff director for the House committee. "As far as I know, > this is without modern precedent." > > Norman Ornstein, a congressional specialist at the American Enterprise > Institute, agreed. "I have not heard of anything like that happening > before," he said. "This is obviously an excuse to avoid providing > information about some of the things the Democrats are asking for." > Fine. I have just one word for those Republican shits: PRECEDENT. You motherfuckers won't be in power forever, despite your tireless efforts to corrupt the voting process to ensure that you never actually have to face a fair vote. Next time the Democrats are in control, we can and will do exactly to you scumbags what you're doing to us now. Think about that, assholes. (And, of course, being the crybabies they are, the Republicans and their lickspittle press cohort will scream and moan and whine about how unfair and mean the Democrats are being to them, conveniently ignoring and hoping the rest of the country won't remember this incident. Exactly the same way the pretend that they didn't try to sabotage Clinton's judicial appointments. If anyone here ever wonders why I hate Republicans, now you know.) Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Poll in Iraq
> I've heard conservative commentators quote "reputable polling companies" as > indicating that the people of Iraq favor US involvement. I've read that > Cheney quoted a Zogby poll as indicating this favorable response. Yet, > when I searched for the poll, I got this result. > I read an interview with Zogby in which he repudiated Cheney's interpretation of the poll and said he didn't understand how Cheney could interpret it the way he did. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Typical Republican hypocrisy
Justice Brown, if confirmed, would be the 11th Judge on the D.C. Circuit. Sens. Charles Grassley, Jon Kyl, and Jeff Sessions voted in favor of her nomination yesterday. But in 1997, opposing President Clinton's nominee to the D.C. Circuit, citing the D.C. circuits relatively low caseload, Sen. Grassley said "I can confidently conclude that the D.C. circuit does not need 12 judges or even 11 judges.http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=all&page=S2522&dbname=1997_record";> Filling either of these two seats would just be a waste of taxpayer money -- to the tune of about $1 million per year for each seat." Senator Kyl added "...Grassley and Sessions have made sound arguments that thehttp://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=all&page=S2522&dbname=1997_record";> D.C. Circuit does not need to fill the 11th seat. Their arguments are reasonable and not based upon partisan considerations. Similarly, my concerns with the Garland nomination are basedhttp://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=all&page=S2522&dbname=1997_record";> strictly on the caseload requirements of the circuit, not on partisanship or the qualifications of the nominee." But, since 1997,http://www.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/cmsa2002.pl";> the case load of the D.C. Circuit has declined from 1531 appeals filed in 1997 to 1126 appeals filed in 2002. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "Man is the only animal who blushes. Or needs to." - Mark Twain ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Country music evil?
I don't particularly like "country music" as such. I do like certain artists who tend to be considered country performers. My favorite singer period is Mary-Chapin Carpenter, but I don't know that I'd call her a country singer, even though she has often been listed as one. I also like Kathy Mattea, who is closer to country than Mary-Chapin Carpenter, but is still not really a pure country singer. Okay, I love Reba McEntire, who is definitely country. I also like Garth Brooks, who is sometimes a country singer and sometimes just a pop singer. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Scouted] Trick or Treat rage?
> > > I thought awhile back that if I were ever attacked > > and managed to knock my > > > attacker down and unconscious for a bit, I'd use > > whatever I had at hand to > > > carve an asterisk in the forehead of the person, > > then run and call the > > > police. The marring of the forehead would make > > for easier identification > > > later, and might spur the person to go to the ER, > > where it might be easier to find that person. > > > I GUARANTEE you, the person would scream bloody > > murder to the cops and insist > > that you be arrested too. Then he'd hire a lawyer > > and sue you from here to Andromeda. > > > " He grabbed me - I just struck out as > hard as I could...I think I scratched his > face... fingernails>... Can I please wash my > hands now?" > Read carefully: "I thought awhile back that if I were ever attacked and managed to knock my attacker down and unconscious for a bit, I'd use whatever I had at hand to carve an asterisk in the forehead of the person" Knocked attacker down. Attacker unconscious. Premeditation to carve asterisk in attacker's forehead. Not "I struck out as hard as I could...I think I scratched his face". I'm not defending the attacker, I'm simply saying that if you did this to your attacker, your attacker would undoubtedly sue you. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Country music evil?
> Bluegrass > Love (used to play banjo - poorly) > Lyle Leavitt > Eh > the music featured in "Oh Brother Where Art Thou? > Loved > the music of Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys? > Don't know > late 19th century country music which is tied to 16th and 17th century > English music? > Don't know Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Scouted] Trick or Treat rage?
> I thought awhile back that if I were ever attacked and managed to knock my > attacker down and unconscious for a bit, I'd use whatever I had at hand to > carve an asterisk in the forehead of the person, then run and call the > police. The marring of the forehead would make for easier identification > later, and might spur the person to go to the ER, where it might be easier > to find that person. > I GUARANTEE you, the person would scream bloody murder to the cops and insist that you be arrested too. Then he'd hire a lawyer and sue you from here to Andromeda. I'm not saying he'd be right to do this, but I absofuckinglutely guarantee it would happen. 100% certain. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [L3] RE: religious/political question
> [He overstates his case here, as most
> Christians consider Jesus 'given for the sake of the
> world' and I think there is a Jewish concept of 'being
> a light unto the world' also.]
>
There is a core Jewish concept of the people Israel being called upon by God
to be "or l'goyim" ("a light unto the nations"). We are supposed to be a holy
nation in obedience to God, which will inspire the rest of the world to
goodness and unity.
Tom Beck
www.prydonians.org
www.mercerjewishsingles.org
"I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the
last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle
___
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Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
In a message dated 11/2/03 3:22:10 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 01:32:28PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: > > > I would prefer a monorail system instead. > > Umm, how does it go, is there a danger that the track will bend? > "Not on your life, my Hindu friend!" Tom Beck (who is glad he isn't the only one who saw all the Simpsons possibilities in the original mention of a monorail) www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> I would prefer a monorail system instead. > Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Barbour campaign shows GOP's white supremacist side
> I imagine that a number of white people in Texas who own guns would have
> something to say about this
>
You would hope they would not be thinking selfishly of themselves ("You can't
move them people into MY neighborhood"), but that the entire idea of
apartheid for ANYONE is loathesome and despicable.
Tom Beck
www.prydonians.org
www.mercerjewishsingles.org
"I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the
last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Dogmatism
> And neither of us would call Marxism a religion. I would call > Marxism-Leninism/Stalinism the official state (pseudo) religion of the > former USSR though... and it was evil, EVIL I say! > Please leave Marx out of it. He died in 1883 (34 years before the Russian Revolution), he never expected (nor would he have approved) Communism to come first to an agrarian, largely pre-industrial country like Russia, and he would have been appalled, infuriated, outraged, disgusted, shocked and in every other possible way rejected everything Lenin and Stalin and their successors did in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, and elsewhere. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: religious/political question
> Women die all the time because of pregnacies and all kinds of related > problems with pregnacies. > And doctors try to do something about that so the death rate will decline, just as they are trying to cure cancer. > The that parasite can also last for more 18 > years draining resources, time, energy, money, degradeing the body, etc. > Unless you were a remarkably self-sufficient child, or you were abandoned, you yourself (just like everyone else was) were a "parasite" for up to 18 (or maybe even more) years. Or did you pay your parents back for all the money (to say nothing of time, effort, tears, etc.) they spent on you? Or did you figure you didn't ask to be born so you owed them absolutely nothing whatsoever? (Talk about parasite!) For some reason, this reminds me of something Harry Truman is supposed to have said (no idea if it's true or not, but it sure _sounds_ like something Truman would have said): A reporter asked him, "Is it true you called Richard Nixon a son-of-a-bitch?" And Truman is supposed to have answered, "How could I? He claims to be a self-made man." Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> Texas won't stand for such insults Tom! > Texas is SO touchy. For all its size and bluster, it must really be nervous and not at all as self-confident as it tries to make itself seem. > >From this day forward every Mexican I meet will hear about what a > wonderful > place New Jersey is and how much more money they will make if they move > there. > Except, you won't ever meet any more Mexicans, as they've all already moved here. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> It's been my observation that at least part of the problem with improving > public transportation is that Americans like their cars too much. If the > state *was* to improve the system, I really don't know how many peope would > actually take it. And of course, there's the question of who would pay for it. > > Even a place like DC that has a great public transportation system in the > Metro winds up with loads of traffic. > A) That's true B) Don't bother arguing with Erik - he's baiting us. There's no point responding to his obvious (if lame) attempts at trolling. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> If you want to spend hours commuting to and from work, Jersey's your place > then! > You're acting like New Jersey is somehow uniquely bad in this regard. The traffic near Boston, DC, Long Island, LA, and Atlanta is at least at bad and probably worse. The Long Island Expressway is not nicknamed "The World's Longest Parking Lot" for nothing. (On the other hand, I will admit that around here, people pray not to have to commute through Princeton...) Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: New Jersey (was Re: religious/political question)
> Transportation sucks. Traffic is horrible, and public transit has poor > coverage unless you just want to go to New York or Philly. > Well, bad traffic and poor public transit are not unique to New Jersey. At least New Jersey *has* New York and Philly to go to...not too many states are situated so favorably between two such terrific cities. New Jersey gets bad press...mostly by people who have never actually been here or whose personal experience is limited to the area around Newark Airport...which would be kind of like judging the entire state of Alaska only by looking at Prince William Sound immediately after the Exxon Valdez crashed and spilled. Or like judging the entire state of Texas by...the entire state of Texas. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org "I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
