RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
Hi Dan,. Don't be discouraged by it. How long you've been out of the job market. An opportunity will come for someone like you who have the quality and knowledge. regards, vincent -Original Message- From: park jeongwoo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 11:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Disappointed with ccnp!! Hi group members. I need your help. I am having a hard time on finding a job. I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the entry level of job for network engineer. I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from college less than a year ago. I have less than a year of network experience that I got from school computer lab. I had a harder time finding a job before I became ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get me somewhere at least as a entry level network engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed with the fact that I am still having a hard time finding a job even with ccnp certification. I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as ccda, ccdp. Would these certification ever help me find job? It is really discouraging that cisco certification doesn't help me much find a job at this point, because I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what is the point of getting cisco certification. Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what I should do? Am I looking for wrong job? I will appreiciate your input. jeongwoo __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
I don't know you personally, but I have some suggestions for you to think about. Don't let that certification go to your head. If you give the impression to an employer that you deserve to have a job because of your CCNP, you will not get hired. Don't think that you are better than others because of your CCNP. Also, your personality and attitude that you show during interviews is critical in landing that first job. Show that you can be a team player and can work well and get along with almost anyone. And lastly, consider other entry level positions, such as help desk, because you don't have any actual work experience. Employers don't really consider "lab" as work experience. Hope this helps. Good luck, --- park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi group members. > I need your help. > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for > the > entry level of job for network engineer. > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > college less than a year ago. > I have less than a year of network experience that I > got from school computer lab. > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would > get > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > ccda, ccdp. > Would these certification ever help me find job? > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > doesnt help me much find a job at this point, > because > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself > what > is the point of getting cisco certification. > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > > Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and > what > I should do? > Am I looking for wrong job? > > I will appreiciate your input. > > jeongwoo > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
well ... may be you ask too much for an entry level. Or something wrong with your resume that didn't fit for their requirements ... - Original Message - From: "park jeongwoo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 10:42 Subject: Disappointed with ccnp!! > Hi group members. > I need your help. > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the > entry level of job for network engineer. > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > college less than a year ago. > I have less than a year of network experience that I > got from school computer lab. > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > ccda, ccdp. > Would these certification ever help me find job? > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > doesn't help me much find a job at this point, because > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what > is the point of getting cisco certification. > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > > Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what > I should do? > Am I looking for wrong job? > > I will appreiciate your input. > > jeongwoo > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
Hi, I'm from the other end of the scale. I have been working in this business for years and have wanted to get out and studied in other areas but can't afford the pay cut to go back to an entry level job. That is not to say I don't enjoy what I do. I feel I have to become a CCIE to keep up with all you young guns. I also feel I have a lot of experiences to share, stuff that sort of dissappeared but will bite when you are not looking. The other reason for me wanting to become a CCIE is so that I can semi retire and carry out some contract work. It seems it doesn't matter where we are in life we are still looking for something different and/or better. Teunis, Hobart, Tasmania Australia On Monday, January 08, 2001 at 07:42:18 PM, park jeongwoo wrote: > Hi group members. > I need your help. > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the > entry level of job for network engineer. > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > college less than a year ago. > I have less than a year of network experience that I > got from school computer lab. > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > ccda, ccdp. > Would these certification ever help me find job? > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > doesn?t help me much find a job at this point, because > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what > is the point of getting cisco certification. > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > > Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what > I should do? > Am I looking for wrong job? > > I will appreiciate your input. > > jeongwoo > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- www.tasmail.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
Jeongwoo- With your high expectations of getting a job, I can understand your disappointment. Expecting a certification to get you a job is setting yourself up for disappointment because I think certification alone is not enough to land a job. Certification must not be your only qualification for a job - there are many other factors that are much more important. Specifically, what matters most is your ability to do the job. Your interviewer is constantly asking himself, "What can Jeongwoo do for us?" And YOU need to answer that question for him. Here is an exercise to help you figure things out: Change seats with the person who is interviewing you and ask yourself, what can Jeongwoo do to contribute to the success of this organization. Take as much time as you need to think this through. Write down every benefit you offer to an employer (even the little silly ones that come up). Read the list over many times. Develop each Jeongwoo-benefit into a one sentence phrase that you can inject into your next interview. You have to sell yourself to the employer - the certification won't do it! Also, what kind of job are you looking for? What is the job market? Your target employers may not hold value in certifications, so you need to offer them something they value. My experience says the type of company that holds the most value in certifications is a reseller - they NEED certs to keep their reseller status. Other companies place more value on your proven ability to do the job based on your past experience. Since that is limited to a lab, you really can't prove it to them. You need other positive points to having you as an employee. There are too many other factors that affect your chance in an interview to list here, but consider some obvious ones. Being a recent college graduate, how is your appearance (young and immature or professional)? How well do you communicate with others? How confident are you and does it show? Confidence in your knowledge of technology (and where/how to find the info you need) and ability to do the job (configure, troubleshoot, etc.) may be your biggest asset and that should show in an interview. Again, there are MANY factors... What qualities do you have that an employer MUST have? "How can Jeongwoo contribute to the success of this organization?" -Eddie At 07:42 PM 1/8/01 -0800, park jeongwoo wrote: >Hi group members. >I need your help. >I am having a hard time on finding a job. >I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the >entry level of job for network engineer. >I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from >college less than a year ago. >I have less than a year of network experience that I >got from school computer lab. >I had a harder time finding a job before I became >ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get >me somewhere at least as a entry level network >engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed >with the fact that I am still having a hard time >finding a job even with ccnp certification. >I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as >ccda, ccdp. >Would these certification ever help me find job? >It is really discouraging that cisco certification >doesn't help me much find a job at this point, because >I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what >is the point of getting cisco certification. >Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > >Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what >I should do? >Am I looking for wrong job? > >I will appreiciate your input. > >jeongwoo > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! >http://photos.yahoo.com/ > >_ >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
The Cert can only get you the interview, not the job. Your lack of experience is the real issue here. Try a body shop like Manpower, Frith Recruiting, or Comms people. Cheers, Lance >From: park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Disappointed with ccnp!! >Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:42:18 -0800 (PST) > >Hi group members. >I need your help. >I am having a hard time on finding a job. >I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the >entry level of job for network engineer. >I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from >college less than a year ago. >I have less than a year of network experience that I >got from school computer lab. >I had a harder time finding a job before I became >ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get >me somewhere at least as a entry level network >engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed >with the fact that I am still having a hard time >finding a job even with ccnp certification. >I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as >ccda, ccdp. >Would these certification ever help me find job? >It is really discouraging that cisco certification >doesnt help me much find a job at this point, because >I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what >is the point of getting cisco certification. >Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > >Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what >I should do? >Am I looking for wrong job? > >I will appreiciate your input. > >jeongwoo > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! >http://photos.yahoo.com/ > >_ >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
Hi Don't worry too much about it. This time of year it is hard to find work, I know I am looking right now myself. A lot of the companies are just starting a new year, people just getting back from holiday vacations, new budgets and projects just starting to get going. Keep in mind that there really isn't a cert out there with the possible exception of the CCIE will get you a job by it's self. You have to fit the job, the environment, and have the knowledge/experience you will land the job. Be charming, friendly, likeable. Read the job description carefully, if you have the knowledge/experience they are looking for, MAKE sure it shows on your resume. Too many times we "geeks" assume knowledge on the hiring persons part, spell it out real simple, make sure they get it. I actually had a recruiter ask me "Since you have worked with DS-3 lines, you have ATM and frame relay experience, right?" So you tell me, what on earth does a layer 2 technology have to with a layer 1 technology? Anyway keep your sprits up, there are jobs to had. I have three interviews over the 2 weeks, one with the mother ship, Cisco. May my good luck land on you! -- John Hardman CCNP MCSE+I "park jeongwoo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Hi group members. > I need your help. > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the > entry level of job for network engineer. > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > college less than a year ago. > I have less than a year of network experience that I > got from school computer lab. > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > ccda, ccdp. > Would these certification ever help me find job? > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > doesn't help me much find a job at this point, because > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what > is the point of getting cisco certification. > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > > Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what > I should do? > Am I looking for wrong job? > > I will appreiciate your input. > > jeongwoo > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
You cannot expect an employer to be interested in you just because you have a specific certification, in the same way that you cannot expect a company to hire you just because you have a specific degree. There are many things other than technical skills that an employer looks at. 1. Does the employee's resume catch their eye? Is it sloppy? Is there a problem with any of the wording? When you are employed in the networking field, you normally do not just sit in a dark room and configure routers all of the time. For the higher end positions, there are written proposals, network design drawings, presentations, reports, etc. You must be capable of communicating in a professional manner, and your resume and cover letter will leave a first impression with the potential employer of these skills. 2. Unfortunately for alot of newbies in the networking field, employers know that alot of times, certifications just prove that a candidate can memorize a bunch of facts. Because of the boom in the certification study guide industry, it is possible to memorize a book, and have a decent chance of passing the CCNP exam without ever touching the equipment. The CCIE and other similar tests that include lab examinations are often the best type of certification that prove that you have expert level hands-on knowledge. I worked with a gentlemen in the past that had his Novell CNE, CCNA, CCDA and MCSE. He was good at memorizing facts and taking exams. He was hired into a company because of those credentials. The management found out, however, that he could not solve technical problems, and was a drain on the rest of the staff because he was constantly bothering his fully employees for help with what should have been simple issues. The next time the management team goes to hire someone, they will not immediately bring the employee on board based on having specific certifications, because they have learned their lesson the hard way. 3. If you get the employer's attention, and get a chance to interview with the company, you are not necessarily being judged on your technical knowledge during that interview. You are being judged on how you present yourself. Anytime that I am preparing to be interviewed, I read a book called "Sweaty Palms". It explains a little about the psychology behind the interview process, both what you are going through, and what the interviewer is thinking when speaking to you. 4. Do not expect the employer to just give you the job because you've gotten to the interview, and have a certification. You have to present yourself professionally throughout the entire process, and sell yourself to the employer on your entire self, education, technical skills, project management, organization, writing abilities, presentation skills, etc. The company doesn't want someone with just a piece of paper behind them, they want a well rounded, reliable, competent employee. 5. If you do not have the job and work experience to back up your education and certification, you should not expect employers to bring you in at the senior levels of their staff. I started out, like you, working as a computer lab consultant for a major university. I worked hard while there, and after two years, was promoted to Assistant Lab Supervisor, and was in charge of maintaining all of LAN cabling up to the Access Router, the PC's, and the Printers. The pay was so low that I could no longer afford to attend college, and had to leave to work full time. I used that experience to get me a job as a contract PC Technician. While a contractor, I concentrated on software, learned alot about NT and Windows. I used that experience to get my foot in the door as a Technical Support Specialist for a worldwide distributor of networking and communications equipment for small to medium businesses. They hired me because they were looking for someone with NT knowledge. I then was introduced to networking equipment, and worked with equipment from Cisco, Nortel/Bay, 3Com, etc. I was the first person at the company to get the CCDA (it was actually called the CDS, Cisco Design Specialist, at that time). I later got the CCNA certification a few months after it came out. I used those certifications, and my previous knowledge to get in the door of a manufacturer of high speed voice and data networking equipment. They were looking for someone specifically with Cisco hands-on experience, as well as a general networking background with LAN's/WAN's. I worked my way to become a Senior Technical Support Engineer with that company. Unfortunately, I was off track on reaching the goal of CCIE, so I had to move on to a company that would assist me with the process. The moral of the story is, I took low paying jobs at the beginning of my career, I couldn't afford to eat at times, but I put in my time at the low end of the pool, and did not expect to skip steps in my career advancement. I moved from one company to the next to get the proper
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
Jeongwoo, I suspect CCNP is not widely recognized by employers (yet), with the possible exception of the Washington DC area. A year ago, everyone here was looking for CCNAs but now CCNP seems to be the cert. du jour, judging by the job ads in the Washington Post. CCNA, like MCSE, is nothing special anymore in these parts. Short of suggesting that you move here, take a look at the basics that you might easily change--for instance, do you have a strong, well-presented resume? Consider having a professional look at your resume for things like language quality, impact, succinctness. Also, ask yourself hard questions about the impression you make at job interviews. Are you imparting to the employer how you will devote your skills to solving his problems, or are you leaving the impression that what you're looking for is someone to support your CCIE? Kathy "Katyusha" M. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of park jeongwoo Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 10:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Disappointed with ccnp!! Hi group members. I need your help. I am having a hard time on finding a job. I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the entry level of job for network engineer. I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from college less than a year ago. I have less than a year of network experience that I got from school computer lab. I had a harder time finding a job before I became ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get me somewhere at least as a entry level network engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed with the fact that I am still having a hard time finding a job even with ccnp certification. I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as ccda, ccdp. Would these certification ever help me find job? It is really discouraging that cisco certification doesnt help me much find a job at this point, because I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what is the point of getting cisco certification. Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what I should do? Am I looking for wrong job? I will appreiciate your input. jeongwoo __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
CCNP level candidates would be expected to perform to a certain level. Your lack of experience combined with the CCNP is a red flag. It is very unlikely you can perform to the level of most CCNP's. I recommend dropping the CCNP from your resume right now and aim at landing an entry level network position anywhere you can to begin accumulating experience (the most important factor in IT). Shortly after landing your position your could then announce your having reached CCNP. This would benefit you in a few ways, first you will not be given tasks you cannot handle which will permit you to hold your job. Secondly, a CCNA with no experience is not going to get much less salary than a CCNP without any experience. Therefore, after you land your first job and announce your newly aquired CCNP, you will probably get yourself a decent raise which would probably put you at or above where you would have entered with CCNP. Plus you won't have to wait months to find a job. - Original Message - From: park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 7:42 PM Subject: Disappointed with ccnp!! > Hi group members. > I need your help. > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the > entry level of job for network engineer. > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > college less than a year ago. > I have less than a year of network experience that I > got from school computer lab. > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > ccda, ccdp. > Would these certification ever help me find job? > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > doesn't help me much find a job at this point, because > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what > is the point of getting cisco certification. > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > > Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what > I should do? > Am I looking for wrong job? > > I will appreiciate your input. > > jeongwoo > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
I believe in the SF Bay Area, the CCNP is well recognized. How is he pursuing a job? A lot of facts are not out there so I will refrain from commenting. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kathy Miihalisko Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 9:37 PM To: park jeongwoo; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! Jeongwoo, I suspect CCNP is not widely recognized by employers (yet), with the possible exception of the Washington DC area. A year ago, everyone here was looking for CCNAs but now CCNP seems to be the cert. du jour, judging by the job ads in the Washington Post. CCNA, like MCSE, is nothing special anymore in these parts. Short of suggesting that you move here, take a look at the basics that you might easily change--for instance, do you have a strong, well-presented resume? Consider having a professional look at your resume for things like language quality, impact, succinctness. Also, ask yourself hard questions about the impression you make at job interviews. Are you imparting to the employer how you will devote your skills to solving his problems, or are you leaving the impression that what you're looking for is someone to support your CCIE? Kathy "Katyusha" M. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of park jeongwoo Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 10:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Disappointed with ccnp!! Hi group members. I need your help. I am having a hard time on finding a job. I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the entry level of job for network engineer. I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from college less than a year ago. I have less than a year of network experience that I got from school computer lab. I had a harder time finding a job before I became ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get me somewhere at least as a entry level network engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed with the fact that I am still having a hard time finding a job even with ccnp certification. I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as ccda, ccdp. Would these certification ever help me find job? It is really discouraging that cisco certification doesnt help me much find a job at this point, because I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what is the point of getting cisco certification. Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what I should do? Am I looking for wrong job? I will appreiciate your input. jeongwoo __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
Agreed. Do not list the cert and list topics that you are more confident with and that should be of benefit. ""Groupstudy"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > CCNP level candidates would be expected to perform to a certain level. Your > lack of experience combined with the CCNP is a red flag. It is very > unlikely you can perform to the level of most CCNP's. > > I recommend dropping the CCNP from your resume right now and aim at landing > an entry level network position anywhere you can to begin accumulating > experience (the most important factor in IT). Shortly after landing your > position your could then announce your having reached CCNP. This would > benefit you in a few ways, first you will not be given tasks you cannot > handle which will permit you to hold your job. Secondly, a CCNA with no > experience is not going to get much less salary than a CCNP without any > experience. Therefore, after you land your first job and announce your > newly aquired CCNP, you will probably get yourself a decent raise which > would probably put you at or above where you would have entered with CCNP. > Plus you won't have to wait months to find a job. > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 7:42 PM > Subject: Disappointed with ccnp!! > > > > Hi group members. > > I need your help. > > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the > > entry level of job for network engineer. > > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > > college less than a year ago. > > I have less than a year of network experience that I > > got from school computer lab. > > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get > > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > > ccda, ccdp. > > Would these certification ever help me find job? > > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > > doesn't help me much find a job at this point, because > > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what > > is the point of getting cisco certification. > > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > > > > Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what > > I should do? > > Am I looking for wrong job? > > > > I will appreiciate your input. > > > > jeongwoo > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > > > _ > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
Well this is a hot thread so I thought I would put in my 2 cents. First, having a CCNP is a plus but is no replacement for actual experience. The interview process is about personal marketing, you need to sell the interviewer on how having you on his team will benefit him and the company. Don't be afraid to identify areas where you know you are weak. -- Kevin - Original Message - From: "park jeongwoo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 7:42 PM Subject: Disappointed with ccnp!! > Hi group members. > I need your help. > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the > entry level of job for network engineer. > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > college less than a year ago. > I have less than a year of network experience that I > got from school computer lab. > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > ccda, ccdp. > Would these certification ever help me find job? > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > doesn't help me much find a job at this point, because > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what > is the point of getting cisco certification. > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > > Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what > I should do? > Am I looking for wrong job? > > I will appreiciate your input. > > jeongwoo > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
It all depends on what you want out of your certifications. As long as you did not get your certifications by "cramming and dumping only", it is still worthwhile even though you cannot get a job now. My little advice is: target an employer in your area, get some information about their Network needs ,make sure you can fulfill those needs and go to market yourself directly. Just be confident in what you have . It is the employer that should be pitied for missing what you have and not the other way round. I think you will get more help from recruiters at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cletus.O.Ugwu -Original Message- From: park jeongwoo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 4:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Disappointed with ccnp!! Hi group members. I need your help. I am having a hard time on finding a job. I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the entry level of job for network engineer. I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from college less than a year ago. I have less than a year of network experience that I got from school computer lab. I had a harder time finding a job before I became ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get me somewhere at least as a entry level network engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed with the fact that I am still having a hard time finding a job even with ccnp certification. I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as ccda, ccdp. Would these certification ever help me find job? It is really discouraging that cisco certification doesn't help me much find a job at this point, because I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what is the point of getting cisco certification. Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what I should do? Am I looking for wrong job? I will appreiciate your input. jeongwoo __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
Don't be disappointed with your CCNP, that's for sure... Just don't consider it the end all to getting that job. I started with my company in June 1999 with an MSCE and CCNA, neither of which I attained with work experience, one with school, the other self study. I got a job setting up small LANs for scanning projects, and then doing the scanning along with the others! Then, moved UP to the help desk!!! Didn't even start there, is what I am getting at. Got promoted in 2 months to help desk supervisor by doing a good job (I think), then moved to engineering team in 6 months to help design our new Cisco network because there were only 2 other CCNAs around to do it. In June of 2000 I attained my CCNP, with some work experience on the equipment and our test lab at work. Now I would consider myself a valuable member of our Network Infrastructure team, but it didn't happen overnight, and even though I wanted it to happen, I really didn't expect it to at this company based on where I started. One more thought. There are those, including a very senior Microsoft Architect here, who still say I don't have enough experience to go after my CCIE, that it would not benefit myself, or the company because even if I attained it, I would not have enough years of experience to back that cert. Well to him, I said, I am not going to sit around 10 years until I have your experience, I am going to study everyday, and get involved with every network problem and design issue I can to gain experience faster in troubleshooting methods, and seeing various levels of problems. To that he just shook his head and said with a smile... Kids nowdays.. ;-) By the way, I am 32. Not really a kid anymore. hehehehe HTH Jim -Original Message- From: chris fong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! I don't know you personally, but I have some suggestions for you to think about. Don't let that certification go to your head. If you give the impression to an employer that you deserve to have a job because of your CCNP, you will not get hired. Don't think that you are better than others because of your CCNP. Also, your personality and attitude that you show during interviews is critical in landing that first job. Show that you can be a team player and can work well and get along with almost anyone. And lastly, consider other entry level positions, such as help desk, because you don't have any actual work experience. Employers don't really consider "lab" as work experience. Hope this helps. Good luck, --- park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi group members. > I need your help. > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for > the > entry level of job for network engineer. > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > college less than a year ago. > I have less than a year of network experience that I > got from school computer lab. > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would > get > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > ccda, ccdp. > Would these certification ever help me find job? > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > doesn't help me much find a job at this point, > because > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself > what > is the point of getting cisco certification. > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > > Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and > what > I should do? > Am I looking for wrong job? > > I will appreiciate your input. > > jeongwoo > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
My 2 cents...try looking out of the San Francisco market. Also, just a CCNP cert. at entry level is not enough. An additional A+, SCSA, CNA, MCP will help. Good Luck park jeongwoo wrote: > > Hi group members. > I need your help. > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the > entry level of job for network engineer. > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > college less than a year ago. > I have less than a year of network experience that I > got from school computer lab. > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > ccda, ccdp. > Would these certification ever help me find job? > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > doesnt help me much find a job at this point, because > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what > is the point of getting cisco certification. > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > > Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what > I should do? > Am I looking for wrong job? > > I will appreiciate your input. > > jeongwoo > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shabbir S. Talib MCSE, CNE, CCNA _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
I can appreciate what the senior Microsoft Architect is saying, I'm 22 and this is the kind of impression alot of older guys are giving me. They don't say it, but you know it's there. I believe these people feel threaten by younger people coming up the ranks, who have been exposed to computers since they were kids. These old guys probably started their computing career from another field, and switched careers because of the money. We kids were always into computers because we loved it, and weren't concerned with monetary rewards. -- > From: Croyle, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! > Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 12:30 AM > > Don't be disappointed with your CCNP, that's for sure... Just don't > consider it the end all to getting that job. I started with my company in > June 1999 with an MSCE and CCNA, neither of which I attained with work > experience, one with school, the other self study. I got a job setting up > small LANs for scanning projects, and then doing the scanning along with the > others! Then, moved UP to the help desk!!! Didn't even start there, is > what I am getting at. Got promoted in 2 months to help desk supervisor by > doing a good job (I think), then moved to engineering team in 6 months to > help design our new Cisco network because there were only 2 other CCNAs > around to do it. In June of 2000 I attained my CCNP, with some work > experience on the equipment and our test lab at work. Now I would consider > myself a valuable member of our Network Infrastructure team, but it didn't > happen overnight, and even though I wanted it to happen, I really didn't > expect it to at this company based on where I started. > > One more thought. There are those, including a very senior Microsoft > Architect here, who still say I don't have enough experience to go after my > CCIE, that it would not benefit myself, or the company because even if I > attained it, I would not have enough years of experience to back that cert. > Well to him, I said, I am not going to sit around 10 years until I have your > experience, I am going to study everyday, and get involved with every > network problem and design issue I can to gain experience faster in > troubleshooting methods, and seeing various levels of problems. To that he > just shook his head and said with a smile... Kids nowdays.. ;-) By the > way, I am 32. Not really a kid anymore. hehehehe > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -Original Message- > From: chris fong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:16 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! > > > I don't know you personally, but I have some > suggestions for you to think about. Don't let that > certification go to your head. If you give the > impression to an employer that you deserve to have a > job because of your CCNP, you will not get hired. > Don't think that you are better than others because of > your CCNP. Also, your personality and attitude that > you show during interviews is critical in landing that > first job. Show that you can be a team player and can > work well and get along with almost anyone. And > lastly, consider other entry level positions, such as > help desk, because you don't have any actual work > experience. Employers don't really consider "lab" as > work experience. Hope this helps. > > Good luck, > > > --- park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi group members. > > I need your help. > > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for > > the > > entry level of job for network engineer. > > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > > college less than a year ago. > > I have less than a year of network experience that I > > got from school computer lab. > > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would > > get > > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > > ccda, ccdp. > > Would these certification ever help me find job? > > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > > doesn't help me much find a job at this point, > > because > > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself > > what > > is the point of getting cisco certifi
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
It all depends on who you work for. I'm working for a company in Sacramento making good pay and I only currently have my CCNA with two years of hands-on. Although I do have intensive practical experience with Unix and Cisco routers. If you work for the state or your county, you can make a LOT of dough. They tend to overpay for most positions. If you work for some smaller companies, I've found that they will pay you much less for even more work Shop around. --- "Croyle, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don't be disappointed with your CCNP, that's for > sure... Just don't > consider it the end all to getting that job. I > started with my company in > June 1999 with an MSCE and CCNA, neither of which I > attained with work > experience, one with school, the other self study. > I got a job setting up > small LANs for scanning projects, and then doing the > scanning along with the > others! Then, moved UP to the help desk!!! Didn't > even start there, is > what I am getting at. Got promoted in 2 months to > help desk supervisor by > doing a good job (I think), then moved to > engineering team in 6 months to > help design our new Cisco network because there were > only 2 other CCNAs > around to do it. In June of 2000 I attained my > CCNP, with some work > experience on the equipment and our test lab at > work. Now I would consider > myself a valuable member of our Network > Infrastructure team, but it didn't > happen overnight, and even though I wanted it to > happen, I really didn't > expect it to at this company based on where I > started. > > One more thought. There are those, including a very > senior Microsoft > Architect here, who still say I don't have enough > experience to go after my > CCIE, that it would not benefit myself, or the > company because even if I > attained it, I would not have enough years of > experience to back that cert. > Well to him, I said, I am not going to sit around 10 > years until I have your > experience, I am going to study everyday, and get > involved with every > network problem and design issue I can to gain > experience faster in > troubleshooting methods, and seeing various levels > of problems. To that he > just shook his head and said with a smile... Kids > nowdays.. ;-) By the > way, I am 32. Not really a kid anymore. hehehehe > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -Original Message- > From: chris fong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:16 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! > > > I don't know you personally, but I have some > suggestions for you to think about. Don't let that > certification go to your head. If you give the > impression to an employer that you deserve to have a > job because of your CCNP, you will not get hired. > Don't think that you are better than others because > of > your CCNP. Also, your personality and attitude that > you show during interviews is critical in landing > that > first job. Show that you can be a team player and > can > work well and get along with almost anyone. And > lastly, consider other entry level positions, such > as > help desk, because you don't have any actual work > experience. Employers don't really consider "lab" as > work experience. Hope this helps. > > Good luck, > > > --- park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi group members. > > I need your help. > > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for > > the > > entry level of job for network engineer. > > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > > college less than a year ago. > > I have less than a year of network experience that > I > > got from school computer lab. > > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would > > get > > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and > disappointed > > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such > as > > ccda, ccdp. > > Would these certification ever help me find job? > > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > > doesn't help me much find a job at this point, > > because > > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself > > what > > is the point of getting cisco certification. > > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
I have some suggestions for you to think about. They may or may not apply to you. Don't let that certification go to your head. If you give the impression to an employer that you deserve to have a job because of your CCNP, you will not get hired. Don't think that you are better than others because of your CCNP. Also, your personality and attitude that you show during interviews is critical in landing that first job. Show that you can be a team player and can work well and get along with almost anyone. Also look professional when you go apply in person or for interviews (don't go with spiked hair and a nose ring; you get the picture?) And lastly, consider other entry level positions, such as help desk, because you don't have any actual work experience. Employers don't really consider "lab" as work experience. Like I said before, this may or may not apply to you, but you would not believe some of the characters that I have interviewed. Hope this helps. Good luck, Chris --- park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi group members. > I need your help. > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for > the > entry level of job for network engineer. > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > college less than a year ago. > I have less than a year of network experience that I > got from school computer lab. > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would > get > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > ccda, ccdp. > Would these certification ever help me find job? > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > doesn+t help me much find a job at this point, > because > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself > what > is the point of getting cisco certification. > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > > Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and > what > I should do? > Am I looking for wrong job? > > I will appreiciate your input. > > jeongwoo __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
Even more importantly Park, you need to have the real life experience to back up the cert. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of chris fong Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 9:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! I have some suggestions for you to think about. They may or may not apply to you. Don't let that certification go to your head. If you give the impression to an employer that you deserve to have a job because of your CCNP, you will not get hired. Don't think that you are better than others because of your CCNP. Also, your personality and attitude that you show during interviews is critical in landing that first job. Show that you can be a team player and can work well and get along with almost anyone. Also look professional when you go apply in person or for interviews (don't go with spiked hair and a nose ring; you get the picture?) And lastly, consider other entry level positions, such as help desk, because you don't have any actual work experience. Employers don't really consider "lab" as work experience. Like I said before, this may or may not apply to you, but you would not believe some of the characters that I have interviewed. Hope this helps. Good luck, Chris --- park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi group members. > I need your help. > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for > the > entry level of job for network engineer. > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > college less than a year ago. > I have less than a year of network experience that I > got from school computer lab. > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would > get > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > ccda, ccdp. > Would these certification ever help me find job? > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > doesn+t help me much find a job at this point, > because > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself > what > is the point of getting cisco certification. > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > > Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and > what > I should do? > Am I looking for wrong job? > > I will appreiciate your input. > > jeongwoo __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
>"Albert Lu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote, >I can appreciate what the senior Microsoft Architect is saying, I'm 22 and >this is the kind of impression alot of older guys are giving me. They don't >say it, but you know it's there. > >I believe these people feel threaten by younger people coming up the ranks, >who have been exposed to computers since they were kids. These old guys >probably started their computing career from another field, and switched >careers because of the money. We kids were always into computers because we >loved it, and weren't concerned with monetary rewards. Generalizing can get you in trouble. Certainly, there are people who don't have networking skills comparable to people who grew up with the technology. But that's not a question necessarily of older versus younger. At times, I see progress in humanity due to the observation that every generation thinks it invented sex, but now each generation thinks it invented networking. While we didn't necessarily know to call it networking at the time, I've certainly been doing it for more than 22 years. As a user, I was on an interactive terminal to a UNIVAC 1108 around 1967. By 1970, I was actually running a patient care medical "network" on a DEC PDP-11, with an assortment of 110 through 1200 bps interactive terminals on dial and dedicated lines, but also with distributed PDP-8 instrument data acquisition computers. About the same time, I worked on military command and control networks. I built my first recognizable network control center in 1974, supporting a metropolitan and national IBM network. > > > >------ >> From: Croyle, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! >> Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 12:30 AM >> >> Don't be disappointed with your CCNP, that's for sure... Just don't >> consider it the end all to getting that job. I started with my company >in >> June 1999 with an MSCE and CCNA, neither of which I attained with work >> experience, one with school, the other self study. I got a job setting >up >> small LANs for scanning projects, and then doing the scanning along with >the >> others! Then, moved UP to the help desk!!! Didn't even start there, is >> what I am getting at. Got promoted in 2 months to help desk supervisor >by >> doing a good job (I think), then moved to engineering team in 6 months to >> help design our new Cisco network because there were only 2 other CCNAs >> around to do it. In June of 2000 I attained my CCNP, with some work >> experience on the equipment and our test lab at work. Now I would >consider >> myself a valuable member of our Network Infrastructure team, but it >didn't >> happen overnight, and even though I wanted it to happen, I really didn't >> expect it to at this company based on where I started. >> >> One more thought. There are those, including a very senior Microsoft >> Architect here, who still say I don't have enough experience to go after >my >> CCIE, that it would not benefit myself, or the company because even if I >> attained it, I would not have enough years of experience to back that >cert. >> Well to him, I said, I am not going to sit around 10 years until I have >your >> experience, I am going to study everyday, and get involved with every >> network problem and design issue I can to gain experience faster in >> troubleshooting methods, and seeing various levels of problems. To that >he >> just shook his head and said with a smile... Kids nowdays.. ;-) By the >> way, I am 32. Not really a kid anymore. hehehehe >> >> HTH >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: chris fong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:16 PM >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! >> >> >> I don't know you personally, but I have some >> suggestions for you to think about. Don't let that >> certification go to your head. If you give the >> impression to an employer that you deserve to have a > > job because of your CCNP, you will not get hired. >> Don't think that you are better than others because of >> your CCNP. Also, your personality and attitude that >> you show during interviews is critical in landing that >> first job. Show that you can be a team player and can >> work well and get along with almost anyone. And >> lastly, consider other entry level positions, such as >>
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
Quoth someone earlier: "If you work for the state or your county, you can make a LOT of dough. They tend to overpay for most positions." Could someone tell me just what that state or country that is? Best, G. (A third generation government technical employee.) Somewhat more seriously, public sector education work, while in *my* experience is far from riches, does present a good resume stuffer. The velocity only promises to increase with "technology in education" being such a current buzzword. My team gets the exposure. Those who have gone on to the private sector from here have made out quite well. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
You forget that lots of younger people switch careers too. And not all young people started with computers when they were kids. And not all adults switch careers because of the money. And you bet kids are worried about $$ unless they have their heads in a mound of sand. There are too many generalizations based on a single anecdote. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Albert Lu Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 6:51 AM To: Croyle, James Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! I can appreciate what the senior Microsoft Architect is saying, I'm 22 and this is the kind of impression alot of older guys are giving me. They don't say it, but you know it's there. I believe these people feel threaten by younger people coming up the ranks, who have been exposed to computers since they were kids. These old guys probably started their computing career from another field, and switched careers because of the money. We kids were always into computers because we loved it, and weren't concerned with monetary rewards. -- > From: Croyle, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! > Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 12:30 AM > > Don't be disappointed with your CCNP, that's for sure... Just don't > consider it the end all to getting that job. I started with my company in > June 1999 with an MSCE and CCNA, neither of which I attained with work > experience, one with school, the other self study. I got a job setting up > small LANs for scanning projects, and then doing the scanning along with the > others! Then, moved UP to the help desk!!! Didn't even start there, is > what I am getting at. Got promoted in 2 months to help desk supervisor by > doing a good job (I think), then moved to engineering team in 6 months to > help design our new Cisco network because there were only 2 other CCNAs > around to do it. In June of 2000 I attained my CCNP, with some work > experience on the equipment and our test lab at work. Now I would consider > myself a valuable member of our Network Infrastructure team, but it didn't > happen overnight, and even though I wanted it to happen, I really didn't > expect it to at this company based on where I started. > > One more thought. There are those, including a very senior Microsoft > Architect here, who still say I don't have enough experience to go after my > CCIE, that it would not benefit myself, or the company because even if I > attained it, I would not have enough years of experience to back that cert. > Well to him, I said, I am not going to sit around 10 years until I have your > experience, I am going to study everyday, and get involved with every > network problem and design issue I can to gain experience faster in > troubleshooting methods, and seeing various levels of problems. To that he > just shook his head and said with a smile... Kids nowdays.. ;-) By the > way, I am 32. Not really a kid anymore. hehehehe > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -Original Message- > From: chris fong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:16 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! > > > I don't know you personally, but I have some > suggestions for you to think about. Don't let that > certification go to your head. If you give the > impression to an employer that you deserve to have a > job because of your CCNP, you will not get hired. > Don't think that you are better than others because of > your CCNP. Also, your personality and attitude that > you show during interviews is critical in landing that > first job. Show that you can be a team player and can > work well and get along with almost anyone. And > lastly, consider other entry level positions, such as > help desk, because you don't have any actual work > experience. Employers don't really consider "lab" as > work experience. Hope this helps. > > Good luck, > > > --- park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi group members. > > I need your help. > > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for > > the > > entry level of job for network engineer. > > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > > college less than a year ago. > > I have less than a year of network experience that I > > got from school computer lab. > > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would > > get > > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > > engineer. Now I am kind of con
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
Ah, they tend to underpay most tech positions. But that might not be true in SAC A Tomato. But it is true in Silicon Valley and SF BA. But as far as retirement and generally lower stress...well that's a different story. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan West Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 7:12 AM To: Croyle, James; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! It all depends on who you work for. I'm working for a company in Sacramento making good pay and I only currently have my CCNA with two years of hands-on. Although I do have intensive practical experience with Unix and Cisco routers. If you work for the state or your county, you can make a LOT of dough. They tend to overpay for most positions. If you work for some smaller companies, I've found that they will pay you much less for even more work Shop around. --- "Croyle, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don't be disappointed with your CCNP, that's for > sure... Just don't > consider it the end all to getting that job. I > started with my company in > June 1999 with an MSCE and CCNA, neither of which I > attained with work > experience, one with school, the other self study. > I got a job setting up > small LANs for scanning projects, and then doing the > scanning along with the > others! Then, moved UP to the help desk!!! Didn't > even start there, is > what I am getting at. Got promoted in 2 months to > help desk supervisor by > doing a good job (I think), then moved to > engineering team in 6 months to > help design our new Cisco network because there were > only 2 other CCNAs > around to do it. In June of 2000 I attained my > CCNP, with some work > experience on the equipment and our test lab at > work. Now I would consider > myself a valuable member of our Network > Infrastructure team, but it didn't > happen overnight, and even though I wanted it to > happen, I really didn't > expect it to at this company based on where I > started. > > One more thought. There are those, including a very > senior Microsoft > Architect here, who still say I don't have enough > experience to go after my > CCIE, that it would not benefit myself, or the > company because even if I > attained it, I would not have enough years of > experience to back that cert. > Well to him, I said, I am not going to sit around 10 > years until I have your > experience, I am going to study everyday, and get > involved with every > network problem and design issue I can to gain > experience faster in > troubleshooting methods, and seeing various levels > of problems. To that he > just shook his head and said with a smile... Kids > nowdays.. ;-) By the > way, I am 32. Not really a kid anymore. hehehehe > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -Original Message- > From: chris fong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:16 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! > > > I don't know you personally, but I have some > suggestions for you to think about. Don't let that > certification go to your head. If you give the > impression to an employer that you deserve to have a > job because of your CCNP, you will not get hired. > Don't think that you are better than others because > of > your CCNP. Also, your personality and attitude that > you show during interviews is critical in landing > that > first job. Show that you can be a team player and > can > work well and get along with almost anyone. And > lastly, consider other entry level positions, such > as > help desk, because you don't have any actual work > experience. Employers don't really consider "lab" as > work experience. Hope this helps. > > Good luck, > > > --- park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi group members. > > I need your help. > > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for > > the > > entry level of job for network engineer. > > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > > college less than a year ago. > > I have less than a year of network experience that > I > > got from school computer lab. > > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would > > get > > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and > disappointed > > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > > I feel like I need more cisco ce
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
I have to agree, but from the other side of the scope. I'm 20 and got into it because I loved it, but also because I wanted the money. When I got into computers (about 9 years ago), I really wanted to be rich and powerful. I grew up in a lower-class family (sub 25k/year) and I didn't want to live like that. I started mowing lawns why I was 12 to get the money that I could prove against my peers. I mowed 60 lawns a week and went to school. Lots of good money, almost $40k year actually, but I hated the work. Then I got really heavily into computers. As for people switching gears, I often find that young people are even more into switching than older folks. The trends tends to show that from 18-25, people will switch careers (or atleast physical jobs) from 3-4 times. That is pretty typical. Denis Denis A. Baldwin A+/MCP/I-Net+ Network Administrator - CAE, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sam Adams Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 1:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! You forget that lots of younger people switch careers too. And not all young people started with computers when they were kids. And not all adults switch careers because of the money. And you bet kids are worried about $$ unless they have their heads in a mound of sand. There are too many generalizations based on a single anecdote. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Albert Lu Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 6:51 AM To: Croyle, James Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! I can appreciate what the senior Microsoft Architect is saying, I'm 22 and this is the kind of impression alot of older guys are giving me. They don't say it, but you know it's there. I believe these people feel threaten by younger people coming up the ranks, who have been exposed to computers since they were kids. These old guys probably started their computing career from another field, and switched careers because of the money. We kids were always into computers because we loved it, and weren't concerned with monetary rewards. -- > From: Croyle, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! > Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 12:30 AM > > Don't be disappointed with your CCNP, that's for sure... Just don't > consider it the end all to getting that job. I started with my company in > June 1999 with an MSCE and CCNA, neither of which I attained with work > experience, one with school, the other self study. I got a job setting up > small LANs for scanning projects, and then doing the scanning along with the > others! Then, moved UP to the help desk!!! Didn't even start there, is > what I am getting at. Got promoted in 2 months to help desk supervisor by > doing a good job (I think), then moved to engineering team in 6 months to > help design our new Cisco network because there were only 2 other CCNAs > around to do it. In June of 2000 I attained my CCNP, with some work > experience on the equipment and our test lab at work. Now I would consider > myself a valuable member of our Network Infrastructure team, but it didn't > happen overnight, and even though I wanted it to happen, I really didn't > expect it to at this company based on where I started. > > One more thought. There are those, including a very senior Microsoft > Architect here, who still say I don't have enough experience to go after my > CCIE, that it would not benefit myself, or the company because even if I > attained it, I would not have enough years of experience to back that cert. > Well to him, I said, I am not going to sit around 10 years until I have your > experience, I am going to study everyday, and get involved with every > network problem and design issue I can to gain experience faster in > troubleshooting methods, and seeing various levels of problems. To that he > just shook his head and said with a smile... Kids nowdays.. ;-) By the > way, I am 32. Not really a kid anymore. hehehehe > > HTH > > Jim > > > > -Original Message- > From: chris fong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:16 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! > > > I don't know you personally, but I have some > suggestions for you to think about. Don't let that > certification go to your head. If you give the > impression to an employer that you deserve to have a > job because of your CCNP, you will not get hired. > Don't think that you are better than others because of > your CCNP. Also, your personality and attitude that > you show during interviews is critical in landing that &
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
Everyone's story is different. I switched from accounting to computers three years ago and I have not regretted the move. Why did I switch? Because I live and breath the stuff. The pay was a little more in computers but the work is much more rewarding. I even worked for a big five and had opportunities to go back to the accounting world but turned down the opportunity in a heartbeat. As we go up the ladder we will see that our salaries are comparable to other professionals at the same level experience wise. What will keep us in the industry is the desire to learn, and love of the profession. Good luck in your endeavors. Adam -Original Message- From: Denis A. Baldwin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 11:26 AM To: 'Sam Adams' Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! I have to agree, but from the other side of the scope. I'm 20 and got into it because I loved it, but also because I wanted the money. When I got into computers (about 9 years ago), I really wanted to be rich and powerful. I grew up in a lower-class family (sub 25k/year) and I didn't want to live like that. I started mowing lawns why I was 12 to get the money that I could prove against my peers. I mowed 60 lawns a week and went to school. Lots of good money, almost $40k year actually, but I hated the work. Then I got really heavily into computers. As for people switching gears, I often find that young people are even more into switching than older folks. The trends tends to show that from 18-25, people will switch careers (or atleast physical jobs) from 3-4 times. That is pretty typical. Denis Denis A. Baldwin A+/MCP/I-Net+ Network Administrator - CAE, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sam Adams Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 1:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! You forget that lots of younger people switch careers too. And not all young people started with computers when they were kids. And not all adults switch careers because of the money. And you bet kids are worried about $$ unless they have their heads in a mound of sand. There are too many generalizations based on a single anecdote. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Albert Lu Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 6:51 AM To: Croyle, James Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! I can appreciate what the senior Microsoft Architect is saying, I'm 22 and this is the kind of impression alot of older guys are giving me. They don't say it, but you know it's there. I believe these people feel threaten by younger people coming up the ranks, who have been exposed to computers since they were kids. These old guys probably started their computing career from another field, and switched careers because of the money. We kids were always into computers because we loved it, and weren't concerned with monetary rewards. -- > From: Croyle, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! > Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 12:30 AM > > Don't be disappointed with your CCNP, that's for sure... Just don't > consider it the end all to getting that job. I started with my company in > June 1999 with an MSCE and CCNA, neither of which I attained with work > experience, one with school, the other self study. I got a job setting up > small LANs for scanning projects, and then doing the scanning along with the > others! Then, moved UP to the help desk!!! Didn't even start there, is > what I am getting at. Got promoted in 2 months to help desk supervisor by > doing a good job (I think), then moved to engineering team in 6 months to > help design our new Cisco network because there were only 2 other CCNAs > around to do it. In June of 2000 I attained my CCNP, with some work > experience on the equipment and our test lab at work. Now I would consider > myself a valuable member of our Network Infrastructure team, but it didn't > happen overnight, and even though I wanted it to happen, I really didn't > expect it to at this company based on where I started. > > One more thought. There are those, including a very senior Microsoft > Architect here, who still say I don't have enough experience to go after my > CCIE, that it would not benefit myself, or the company because even if I > attained it, I would not have enough years of experience to back that cert. > Well to him, I said, I am not going to sit around 10 years until I have your > experience, I am going to study everyday, and get involved with every > network problem and design issue I can to gain experience faster in > troubleshooting methods, and seeing various levels of problems. To that
Re: Disappointed with ccnp!!
if you have your ccnp you would have a ccna if you are looking for an entry level job i would dumb down your resume entry level ccnp is a definite red flag if you have a degree in a related field concentrate on that once in i would leverage your certs Duck - Original Message - From: SBS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: park jeongwoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 8:24 PM Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! > well ... may be you ask too much for an entry level. Or something wrong with > your resume that didn't fit for their requirements ... > - Original Message - > From: "park jeongwoo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 10:42 > Subject: Disappointed with ccnp!! > > > > Hi group members. > > I need your help. > > I am having a hard time on finding a job. > > I recently got ccnp certification and looking for the > > entry level of job for network engineer. > > I am living in San Francisco, and graduated from > > college less than a year ago. > > I have less than a year of network experience that I > > got from school computer lab. > > I had a harder time finding a job before I became > > ccnp. So I studied hard believing that ccnp would get > > me somewhere at least as a entry level network > > engineer. Now I am kind of confused and disappointed > > with the fact that I am still having a hard time > > finding a job even with ccnp certification. > > I feel like I need more cisco certifications such as > > ccda, ccdp. > > Would these certification ever help me find job? > > It is really discouraging that cisco certification > > doesn't help me much find a job at this point, because > > I am also pursuing ccie too. I have to ask myself what > > is the point of getting cisco certification. > > Lots of CCNAs are having a job. Why not ccnp? > > > > Could somebody tell me why it goes like this, and what > > I should do? > > Am I looking for wrong job? > > > > I will appreiciate your input. > > > > jeongwoo > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > > > _ > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
I interviewed at a State of CA networking position. Level 1 was starting at 55K/year. Level 2 at 65K. Level 1 work was basically running pings and traceroutes, diagnosing some frame relay probs... pretty straight-forward. I didn't get the position though, because I have no experience with SNA/DLSW :P ...bummmer... --- Sam Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ah, they tend to underpay most tech positions. But > that might not be true > in SAC A Tomato. But it is true in Silicon Valley > and SF BA. > > But as far as retirement and generally lower > stress...well that's a > different story. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Dan West > Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 7:12 AM > To: Croyle, James; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! > > > It all depends on who you work for. I'm working for > a > company in Sacramento making good pay and I only > currently have my CCNA with two years of hands-on. > Although I do have intensive practical experience > with > Unix and Cisco routers. > > If you work for the state or your county, you can > make > a LOT of dough. They tend to overpay for most > positions. If you work for some smaller companies, > I've found that they will pay you much less for even > more work Shop around. > > > --- "Croyle, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Don't be disappointed with your CCNP, that's for > > sure... Just don't > > consider it the end all to getting that job. I > > started with my company in > > June 1999 with an MSCE and CCNA, neither of which > I > > attained with work > > experience, one with school, the other self study. > > I got a job setting up > > small LANs for scanning projects, and then doing > the > > scanning along with the > > others! Then, moved UP to the help desk!!! > Didn't > > even start there, is > > what I am getting at. Got promoted in 2 months to > > help desk supervisor by > > doing a good job (I think), then moved to > > engineering team in 6 months to > > help design our new Cisco network because there > were > > only 2 other CCNAs > > around to do it. In June of 2000 I attained my > > CCNP, with some work > > experience on the equipment and our test lab at > > work. Now I would consider > > myself a valuable member of our Network > > Infrastructure team, but it didn't > > happen overnight, and even though I wanted it to > > happen, I really didn't > > expect it to at this company based on where I > > started. > > > > One more thought. There are those, including a > very > > senior Microsoft > > Architect here, who still say I don't have enough > > experience to go after my > > CCIE, that it would not benefit myself, or the > > company because even if I > > attained it, I would not have enough years of > > experience to back that cert. > > Well to him, I said, I am not going to sit around > 10 > > years until I have your > > experience, I am going to study everyday, and get > > involved with every > > network problem and design issue I can to gain > > experience faster in > > troubleshooting methods, and seeing various levels > > of problems. To that he > > just shook his head and said with a smile... Kids > > nowdays.. ;-) By the > > way, I am 32. Not really a kid anymore. hehehehe > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: chris fong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:16 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! > > > > > > I don't know you personally, but I have some > > suggestions for you to think about. Don't let that > > certification go to your head. If you give the > > impression to an employer that you deserve to have > a > > job because of your CCNP, you will not get hired. > > Don't think that you are better than others > because > > of > > your CCNP. Also, your personality and attitude > that > > you show during interviews is critical in landing > > that > > first job. Show that you can be a team player and > > can > > work well and get along with almost anyone. And > > lastly, consider other entry level positions, such > > as > > help desk, because you don't have any actual work > > experience. Employers don't really consider "lab"
RE: Disappointed with ccnp!!
we haven't heard from the original poster. Poster: What are do you think of the responses you've received? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan West Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 2:50 PM To: Sam Adams; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! I interviewed at a State of CA networking position. Level 1 was starting at 55K/year. Level 2 at 65K. Level 1 work was basically running pings and traceroutes, diagnosing some frame relay probs... pretty straight-forward. I didn't get the position though, because I have no experience with SNA/DLSW :P ...bummmer... --- Sam Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ah, they tend to underpay most tech positions. But > that might not be true > in SAC A Tomato. But it is true in Silicon Valley > and SF BA. > > But as far as retirement and generally lower > stress...well that's a > different story. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Dan West > Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 7:12 AM > To: Croyle, James; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Disappointed with ccnp!! > > > It all depends on who you work for. I'm working for > a > company in Sacramento making good pay and I only > currently have my CCNA with two years of hands-on. > Although I do have intensive practical experience > with > Unix and Cisco routers. > > If you work for the state or your county, you can > make > a LOT of dough. They tend to overpay for most > positions. If you work for some smaller companies, > I've found that they will pay you much less for even > more work Shop around. > > > --- "Croyle, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Don't be disappointed with your CCNP, that's for > > sure... Just don't > > consider it the end all to getting that job. I > > started with my company in > > June 1999 with an MSCE and CCNA, neither of which > I > > attained with work > > experience, one with school, the other self study. > > I got a job setting up > > small LANs for scanning projects, and then doing > the > > scanning along with the > > others! Then, moved UP to the help desk!!! > Didn't > > even start there, is > > what I am getting at. Got promoted in 2 months to > > help desk supervisor by > > doing a good job (I think), then moved to > > engineering team in 6 months to > > help design our new Cisco network because there > were > > only 2 other CCNAs > > around to do it. In June of 2000 I attained my > > CCNP, with some work > > experience on the equipment and our test lab at > > work. Now I would consider > > myself a valuable member of our Network > > Infrastructure team, but it didn't > > happen overnight, and even though I wanted it to > > happen, I really didn't > > expect it to at this company based on where I > > started. > > > > One more thought. There are those, including a > very > > senior Microsoft > > Architect here, who still say I don't have enough > > experience to go after my > > CCIE, that it would not benefit myself, or the > > company because even if I > > attained it, I would not have enough years of > > experience to back that cert. > > Well to him, I said, I am not going to sit around > 10 > > years until I have your > > experience, I am going to study everyday, and get > > involved with every > > network problem and design issue I can to gain > > experience faster in > > troubleshooting methods, and seeing various levels > > of problems. To that he > > just shook his head and said with a smile... Kids > > nowdays.. ;-) By the > > way, I am 32. Not really a kid anymore. hehehehe > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: chris fong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:16 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Disappointed with ccnp!! > > > > > > I don't know you personally, but I have some > > suggestions for you to think about. Don't let that > > certification go to your head. If you give the > > impression to an employer that you deserve to have > a > > job because of your CCNP, you will not get hired. > > Don't think that you are better than others > because > > of > > your CCNP. Also, your personality and attitude > that > > you show during interviews is critical in landing > > that > > first job.
Re: Disappointed with CCNP!! + extras
OK... no these are just my personal opinions and they are not aimed at anyone directly and they may not apply to everyone... Getting certified is great. BUT experience is better. If you run out get a degree, a few certification and expect to be greeted as a god.. think again. I see about 50 resumes a week from people who have done just that. Most of those who make it through the interview process turn down the offers I make them because they were under the impression that a college degree guaranteed them $40K year and the certifications added another $7K - $10K. My company stays fairly competitive with the market and we start people of at around $20 - $30K. Sometime we go higher but it is usually due to the cost-of-living where the position is rather than the prospects credentials. On the other hand, if someone with no degree and no certifications but with 5 years experience as a field engineer for some large network sent his resume in, I would offer that person $35K - $60K. If they had certifications but no degree I could add $7K to $30K (depending on certification). A technology (CIS/MIS) degree is almost meaningless to a technical career. (They may still apply to management / marketing/ etc) Here is why. The technical level of this industry doubles every 18 to 24 months (and is accelerating). This means that 90% of all technology is replaced within 6 years of it premiering on the market. The "spin up" time for new technology is 12 months (3 to 6 of it being pre-release). Most (75%+) of a technology's implementation is done between 6 and 24 months after it's release. Now to the college it takes about a year to develop a course, another year to have it approved and worked into a degree program. Then only the students starting that program are affected by the change as course requirements for a degree are set when you start a program. So 2 years to develop the course and insert it into the program and then 4 years for the students to graduate with the degree equals 6 years. By which time 90% of the technology has been replaced and the industry has moved 3 to 4 leaps ahead of it. +++ A Note on experience vs. certification... I recently sat down with my co-workers and we discussed what changes we would like to see in different certification programs. The over all deciding vote was for experience to be tested by the certification. Similar to the lab for the CCIE. Now we realized this was a little hard to do, but one young bright and complete uncertified woman made the following suggestion... Have a minimum amount of time between certifications, and toughen the tests. For the Cisco program she roughly drew out the following Obtaining a CCNA / CCDA marks your start of the program. There is no time limit between the CCNA & CCDA. You must wait 6 months before being allowed to start testing for your CCNP / CCDP. There is a 3 month wait after obtaining the CCNP or CCDP before you can test for the other one. Then you must wait 12 months after obtaining your first CC_P before being allowed to test for the CCIE. This guarantees you have been working towards your CC_P for atleast a year (hopefully working in the industry during that time), and towards your CCIE for atleast 2 years. I personally like the idea. I hate "paper MCSEs" and I think we are beginning to see "paper CCNPs" which just devalues the certification. ++ Back to degrees... I have noticed that several colleges are finally recognizing certifications tests. Regents College (www.regents.edu) accepts most Microsoft stuff. I was just wondering if anyone had heard if/when Cisco was going to join one of these programs. (Yes, I know what I said earlier. But there is nothing wrong with having a degree, they just don't hold as much weight in this field as they might in others. Besides it is a personal goal.) Eric Thompson _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with CCNP!! + extras
It is unfortunate that there are people that skim by these exams just for the sake of certification. But it is also important to remember people that are trying to get into the field. I am not saying just because you have certification X means you should make X amount of dollars, or expect job X. I have heard many horror stories of companies hiring MCSE certified people whom could not even format a disk. But for many people, such as myself it was a place to start. Lets be realistic here, nobody was born with the knowledge and everyone had to learn it at some point. The damage to certifications was quite evident when I completed my MCSE 1 1/2 years ago, at the time I was doing Desktop support with some server work in a large network. I was not even expecting to get a high paying job, just looking for a place to increase my skills and it was next to impossible. Once I took MCSE off my resume I had better luck finding a job, just with the 1 year experi. It is disappointing to someone like myself whom is in the middle. I have been working with Cisco equipment now for 2 years, 1 year in depth. So I do have some experience with it. Most available jobs I have seen thus far are entry level(I would be bored stiff) or Senior Level(I am not ready for yet). I just recently completed my CCNP + Security certifications. I do not by any means feel that I am a Cisco god, but I am much better off for going through the program. I have learned a great deal in the last year while completing the CCNP. I think lost in all of the arguments over certification is the most important thing of all. That if you do it right, you actually learn a great deal and I am sure that was what was the initial intent of all certifications. Sorry for the Rant, -Eric Gunn _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with CCNP!! + extras
What price do you put on folks with a combination of things? Such as a few years (lets say 3-4) with a CCNA vs the same experience with a degree? or a degree and certification? Eric Gunn wrote: > It is unfortunate that there are people that skim by these exams just for > the sake of certification. But it is also important to remember people that > are trying to get into the field. I am not saying just because you have > certification X means you should make X amount of dollars, or expect job X. > I have heard many horror stories of companies hiring MCSE certified people > whom could not even format a disk. But for many people, such as myself it > was a place to start. Lets be realistic here, nobody was born with the > knowledge and everyone had to learn it at some point. > > The damage to certifications was quite evident when I completed my MCSE 1 > 1/2 years ago, at the time I was doing Desktop support with some server > work in a large network. I was not even expecting to get a high paying job, > just looking for a place to increase my skills and it was next to > impossible. Once I took MCSE off my resume I had better luck finding a job, > just with the 1 year experi. > > It is disappointing to someone like myself whom is in the middle. I have > been working with Cisco equipment now for 2 years, 1 year in depth. So I do > have some experience with it. Most available jobs I have seen thus far are > entry level(I would be bored stiff) or Senior Level(I am not ready for > yet). I just recently completed my CCNP + Security certifications. I do not > by any means feel that I am a Cisco god, but I am much better off for going > through the program. I have learned a great deal in the last year while > completing the CCNP. I think lost in all of the arguments over > certification is the most important thing of all. That if you do it right, > you actually learn a great deal and I am sure that was what was the initial > intent of all certifications. > > Sorry for the Rant, > > -Eric Gunn > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with CCNP!! + extras
Remember too that entry level positions advertised do not mean that is the only opportunity. My recommendation is to follow through even on some of the more junior positions and see if there is room for the company to expand the role and hopefully remuneration. I've been in a position to hire staff as Entry Level but on seeing the caliber of people have gone back and redone a position for a middle level engineer but it really depends more to me on the person and how they come across in the interviews. A Degree or even a Certification (apart from CCIE) just gets your foot in the door and maybe short-listed. A CCIE gets you dragged through the door ;) Darren On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, ROB wrote: > What price do you put on folks with a combination of things? Such as a few years >(lets > say 3-4) with a CCNA vs the same experience with a degree? or a degree and > certification? > > Eric Gunn wrote: > > > It is unfortunate that there are people that skim by these exams just for > > the sake of certification. But it is also important to remember people that > > are trying to get into the field. I am not saying just because you have > > certification X means you should make X amount of dollars, or expect job X. > > I have heard many horror stories of companies hiring MCSE certified people > > whom could not even format a disk. But for many people, such as myself it > > was a place to start. Lets be realistic here, nobody was born with the > > knowledge and everyone had to learn it at some point. > > > > The damage to certifications was quite evident when I completed my MCSE 1 > > 1/2 years ago, at the time I was doing Desktop support with some server > > work in a large network. I was not even expecting to get a high paying job, > > just looking for a place to increase my skills and it was next to > > impossible. Once I took MCSE off my resume I had better luck finding a job, > > just with the 1 year experi. > > > > It is disappointing to someone like myself whom is in the middle. I have > > been working with Cisco equipment now for 2 years, 1 year in depth. So I do > > have some experience with it. Most available jobs I have seen thus far are > > entry level(I would be bored stiff) or Senior Level(I am not ready for > > yet). I just recently completed my CCNP + Security certifications. I do not > > by any means feel that I am a Cisco god, but I am much better off for going > > through the program. I have learned a great deal in the last year while > > completing the CCNP. I think lost in all of the arguments over > > certification is the most important thing of all. That if you do it right, > > you actually learn a great deal and I am sure that was what was the initial > > intent of all certifications. > > > > Sorry for the Rant, > > > > -Eric Gunn > > > > _ > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster
Unfortunately, anyone that is not getting hands on experience will quickly forget pretty much everything they learned during their studies -in a matter of weeks. This fact quickly turns CCNP's back into CCNA's! Best of luck to you. - Original Message - From: jeongwoo park <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Groupstudy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:55 PM Subject: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster > Hi group members!! > I am the original poster of this thread. > First of all, I appreciate your encouragements, > concerns and even criticizing point. I received more > replies than I expected. > > There were some people who made a point on removing my > ccnp cert from my resume. > It was not only thoughtful suggestion, but also scary > suggestion, because I felt that removing it from my > resume was like 7 months of ccnp prep going down the > drain all of a sudden. > However, I made up my mind not remove it. > My intension of listing ccnp on my resume was to show > how much interest I have on networking. I believe that > there is clear difference between ccna without > experience and ccnp without experience. If I were > employer, I would hire ccnp without experience because > there is obviously difference between these two guys > in terms of the amount of technical knowledge and > potential performance that he or she might make. > As some members mentioned, lots of people consider > their careers from IT industry because of money. I > agree with them not only I am partly one of them, but > also money can be one of strong motivation in > advancing their living condition. But money doesn't > give me enough motivation as my interest in networking > does. I didn't even consider CCNP. I was going to > start to look for a job after I got MCSE and CCNA > certifications. > But I couldn't stop my interest in knowing more on > network knowledge. > > There might be some people who would say, " none of > these guys would be hired." > Well, the biggest irony that I have is that who is > going to start his or her career in IT industry if > everyone is looking for only experienced engineer. > That is why I am looking for entry level of job. I > wouldn't be able to perform in the beginning as much > as years of experienced CCNP would do. But I am sure > that I could learn things faster than most of > entry-level job applicants. > If nobody offers me a job, I would go for CCIE without > any corporation experience. I would buy network > devices, and take ccie lab classes. I wonder if there > is anyone who made ccie without any corporation > experience. I wish there were. If not, I will be the > first one who becomes ccie without experience. I am > not talking about home-network or training school > network experience. I am talking about the experience > that can be obtained as a network engineer. > I know it would be harder to become ccie without real > world experience, but I believe that lots of members > who showed their concern would be with me. > When I become CCIE, I will put nothing but CCIE, and > see if anyone gives me job offer. > I wonder if people who emphasizes on only experience > still wouldn't hire me. > > For the people who are already out there and working > for company without any certification, I respect them > because they might have had harder time on getting a > job than I do. > > Since I posted my message, I had some job interviews. > Well, I will see how it will go. > Once again, Thanks you for encouragement and advices. > I will definitely let you know if I got hired. > > > jeongwoo > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster
I would say that is a broad generalization and partially depends on if you studued or crammed. Normally a person must repeat something at least 3 times to commit it to long term memory, exam cramming plays off of the fact that you will remember most of what you learn in your short term memory... This is how most boot camps work and why they are successful. If you spend a good 30+ days studying the same subject matter and do it in a fashion that combimes common learning methods, your long term retention of the subject matter will be much better. For the most part this is retention of facts and concepts, this provides a solid foundation and understanding but is not the same as real world experience. I am a firm believer that some things cannot be taught in books, and those are the qualities to look for in a perspective employee. I will be the first to admit that I do not know everything. Saying that puts me a better position than those who think they do know it all... at least I can swallow my pride and look something up or ask for assitance. Now its my turn to make a sweeping generalization: There are two types of people who persue certification. Those who persue it to better themselves and those who persue it better their career. To me the knowledge I obtain in the path to my certification is more important than the cert itself. -- Kevin "Everything works in theory. Someday I hope to move there." - Original Message - From: "Groupstudy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 11:51 PM Subject: Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster > Unfortunately, anyone that is not getting hands on experience will quickly > forget pretty much everything they learned during their studies -in a matter > of weeks. This fact quickly turns CCNP's back into CCNA's! > > Best of luck to you. > > - Original Message - > From: jeongwoo park <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Groupstudy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:55 PM > Subject: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster > > > > Hi group members!! > > I am the original poster of this thread. > > First of all, I appreciate your encouragements, > > concerns and even criticizing point. I received more > > replies than I expected. > > > > There were some people who made a point on removing my > > ccnp cert from my resume. > > It was not only thoughtful suggestion, but also scary > > suggestion, because I felt that removing it from my > > resume was like 7 months of ccnp prep going down the > > drain all of a sudden. > > However, I made up my mind not remove it. > > My intension of listing ccnp on my resume was to show > > how much interest I have on networking. I believe that > > there is clear difference between ccna without > > experience and ccnp without experience. If I were > > employer, I would hire ccnp without experience because > > there is obviously difference between these two guys > > in terms of the amount of technical knowledge and > > potential performance that he or she might make. > > As some members mentioned, lots of people consider > > their careers from IT industry because of money. I > > agree with them not only I am partly one of them, but > > also money can be one of strong motivation in > > advancing their living condition. But money doesn't > > give me enough motivation as my interest in networking > > does. I didn't even consider CCNP. I was going to > > start to look for a job after I got MCSE and CCNA > > certifications. > > But I couldn't stop my interest in knowing more on > > network knowledge. > > > > There might be some people who would say, " none of > > these guys would be hired." > > Well, the biggest irony that I have is that who is > > going to start his or her career in IT industry if > > everyone is looking for only experienced engineer. > > That is why I am looking for entry level of job. I > > wouldn't be able to perform in the beginning as much > > as years of experienced CCNP would do. But I am sure > > that I could learn things faster than most of > > entry-level job applicants. > > If nobody offers me a job, I would go for CCIE without > > any corporation experience. I would buy network > > devices, and take ccie lab classes. I wonder if there > > is anyone who made ccie without any corporation > > experience. I wish there were. If not, I will be the > > first one who becomes ccie without experience. I am > > not talking about home-network or training school > > network experience. I am talking about the experience >
Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster
Try to enroll at Cisco Network Academy(if there is one nearby) for real hands on experience. >From Semester 5 (BSCN) alone we"ll be doing 60 labs. On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:55:55 -0800 (PST) jeongwoo park <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hi group members!! > I am the original poster of this thread. > First of all, I appreciate your encouragements, > concerns and even criticizing point. I received more > replies than I expected. > > There were some people who made a point on removing my > ccnp cert from my resume. > It was not only thoughtful suggestion, but also scary > suggestion, because I felt that removing it from my > resume was like 7 months of ccnp prep going down the > drain all of a sudden. > However, I made up my mind not remove it. > My intension of listing ccnp on my resume was to show > how much interest I have on networking. I believe that > there is clear difference between ccna without > experience and ccnp without experience. If I were > employer, I would hire ccnp without experience because > there is obviously difference between these two guys > in terms of the amount of technical knowledge and > potential performance that he or she might make. > As some members mentioned, lots of people consider > their careers from IT industry because of money. I > agree with them not only I am partly one of them, but > also money can be one of strong motivation in > advancing their living condition. But money doesnt > give me enough motivation as my interest in networking > does. I didnt even consider CCNP. I was going to > start to look for a job after I got MCSE and CCNA > certifications. > But I couldnt stop my interest in knowing more on > network knowledge. > > There might be some people who would say, none of > these guys would be hired. > Well, the biggest irony that I have is that who is > going to start his or her career in IT industry if > everyone is looking for only experienced engineer. > That is why I am looking for entry level of job. I > wouldnt be able to perform in the beginning as much > as years of experienced CCNP would do. But I am sure > that I could learn things faster than most of > ntry-level job applicants. > If nobody offers me a job, I would go for CCIE without > any corporation experience. I would buy network > devices, and take ccie lab classes. I wonder if there > is anyone who made ccie without any corporation > experience. I wish there were. If not, I will be the > first one who becomes ccie without experience. I am > not talking about home-network or training school > network experience. I am talking about the experience > that can be obtained as a network engineer. > I know it would be harder to become ccie without real > world experience, but I believe that lots of members > who showed their concern would be with me. > When I become CCIE, I will put nothing but CCIE, and > see if anyone gives me job offer. > I wonder if people who emphasizes on only experience > still wouldnt hire me. > > For the people who are already out there and working > for company without any certification, I respect them > because they might have had harder time on getting a > job than I do. > > Since I posted my message, I had some job interviews. > Well, I will see how it will go. > Once again, Thanks you for encouragement and advices. > I will definitely let you know if I got hired. > > > jeongwoo > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster
Friend, Now that you have your CCNP and no Experience, please don't get carried away with the certifications. Don't try to get your CCIE yet. You will just end up hating routing protocols if you don't get your hands in some production routers/switches. Keep up with the Interviews and be prepared to get an entry level position with a crappy salary. Tips: a) Go to Cisco.com and search for Silver/Gold partners in your area, then send your resume to all of them stating you want an entry level. They will love to get you since you already have the paper CCNP (which they need in to get recognition from cisco on the number of certified engineers they employ), and you will be cheap and you have proved you can learn stuff. b) STOP reading CISCO books. Get a BIG HEAVY TCP/IP book and read it page by page. You will be amazed to see how fast you learn once you understand all about the headers in frames/packets. You will understand a lot about Ethernet /Token Ring and all about TCP/UDP ports. I have "Inside TCP/IP" from Siyan it is an awsomw reference book also. Good Luck, let us know how your interviews go. Gonzalo P. CCNP. "jeongwoo park" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Hi group members!! > I am the original poster of this thread. > First of all, I appreciate your encouragements, > concerns and even criticizing point. I received more > replies than I expected. > > There were some people who made a point on removing my > ccnp cert from my resume. > It was not only thoughtful suggestion, but also scary > suggestion, because I felt that removing it from my > resume was like 7 months of ccnp prep going down the > drain all of a sudden. > However, I made up my mind not remove it. > My intension of listing ccnp on my resume was to show > how much interest I have on networking. I believe that > there is clear difference between ccna without > experience and ccnp without experience. If I were > employer, I would hire ccnp without experience because > there is obviously difference between these two guys > in terms of the amount of technical knowledge and > potential performance that he or she might make. > As some members mentioned, lots of people consider > their careers from IT industry because of money. I > agree with them not only I am partly one of them, but > also money can be one of strong motivation in > advancing their living condition. But money doesn't > give me enough motivation as my interest in networking > does. I didn't even consider CCNP. I was going to > start to look for a job after I got MCSE and CCNA > certifications. > But I couldn't stop my interest in knowing more on > network knowledge. > > There might be some people who would say, " none of > these guys would be hired." > Well, the biggest irony that I have is that who is > going to start his or her career in IT industry if > everyone is looking for only experienced engineer. > That is why I am looking for entry level of job. I > wouldn't be able to perform in the beginning as much > as years of experienced CCNP would do. But I am sure > that I could learn things faster than most of > entry-level job applicants. > If nobody offers me a job, I would go for CCIE without > any corporation experience. I would buy network > devices, and take ccie lab classes. I wonder if there > is anyone who made ccie without any corporation > experience. I wish there were. If not, I will be the > first one who becomes ccie without experience. I am > not talking about home-network or training school > network experience. I am talking about the experience > that can be obtained as a network engineer. > I know it would be harder to become ccie without real > world experience, but I believe that lots of members > who showed their concern would be with me. > When I become CCIE, I will put nothing but CCIE, and > see if anyone gives me job offer. > I wonder if people who emphasizes on only experience > still wouldn't hire me. > > For the people who are already out there and working > for company without any certification, I respect them > because they might have had harder time on getting a > job than I do. > > Since I posted my message, I had some job interviews. > Well, I will see how it will go. > Once again, Thanks you for encouragement and advices. > I will definitely let you know if I got hired. > > > jeongwoo > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster
There are many instructors with no real world experience. Do what makes you feel good, the rest will take care of itself. Mark Krysinski CTO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of jeongwoo park Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:56 PM To: Groupstudy Subject: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster Hi group members!! I am the original poster of this thread. First of all, I appreciate your encouragements, concerns and even criticizing point. I received more replies than I expected. There were some people who made a point on removing my ccnp cert from my resume. It was not only thoughtful suggestion, but also scary suggestion, because I felt that removing it from my resume was like 7 months of ccnp prep going down the drain all of a sudden. However, I made up my mind not remove it. My intension of listing ccnp on my resume was to show how much interest I have on networking. I believe that there is clear difference between ccna without experience and ccnp without experience. If I were employer, I would hire ccnp without experience because there is obviously difference between these two guys in terms of the amount of technical knowledge and potential performance that he or she might make. As some members mentioned, lots of people consider their careers from IT industry because of money. I agree with them not only I am partly one of them, but also money can be one of strong motivation in advancing their living condition. But money doesnt give me enough motivation as my interest in networking does. I didnt even consider CCNP. I was going to start to look for a job after I got MCSE and CCNA certifications. But I couldnt stop my interest in knowing more on network knowledge. There might be some people who would say, none of these guys would be hired. Well, the biggest irony that I have is that who is going to start his or her career in IT industry if everyone is looking for only experienced engineer. That is why I am looking for entry level of job. I wouldnt be able to perform in the beginning as much as years of experienced CCNP would do. But I am sure that I could learn things faster than most of entry-level job applicants. If nobody offers me a job, I would go for CCIE without any corporation experience. I would buy network devices, and take ccie lab classes. I wonder if there is anyone who made ccie without any corporation experience. I wish there were. If not, I will be the first one who becomes ccie without experience. I am not talking about home-network or training school network experience. I am talking about the experience that can be obtained as a network engineer. I know it would be harder to become ccie without real world experience, but I believe that lots of members who showed their concern would be with me. When I become CCIE, I will put nothing but CCIE, and see if anyone gives me job offer. I wonder if people who emphasizes on only experience still wouldnt hire me. For the people who are already out there and working for company without any certification, I respect them because they might have had harder time on getting a job than I do. Since I posted my message, I had some job interviews. Well, I will see how it will go. Once again, Thanks you for encouragement and advices. I will definitely let you know if I got hired. jeongwoo __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster
I think most instructors don't have real world experience : ) ""Mark Krysinski"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > There are many instructors with no real world experience. Do what makes you > feel good, the rest will take care of itself. > > Mark Krysinski > CTO > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > jeongwoo park > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:56 PM > To: Groupstudy > Subject: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster > > > Hi group members!! > I am the original poster of this thread. > First of all, I appreciate your encouragements, > concerns and even criticizing point. I received more > replies than I expected. > > There were some people who made a point on removing my > ccnp cert from my resume. > It was not only thoughtful suggestion, but also scary > suggestion, because I felt that removing it from my > resume was like 7 months of ccnp prep going down the > drain all of a sudden. > However, I made up my mind not remove it. > My intension of listing ccnp on my resume was to show > how much interest I have on networking. I believe that > there is clear difference between ccna without > experience and ccnp without experience. If I were > employer, I would hire ccnp without experience because > there is obviously difference between these two guys > in terms of the amount of technical knowledge and > potential performance that he or she might make. > As some members mentioned, lots of people consider > their careers from IT industry because of money. I > agree with them not only I am partly one of them, but > also money can be one of strong motivation in > advancing their living condition. But money doesn't > give me enough motivation as my interest in networking > does. I didn't even consider CCNP. I was going to > start to look for a job after I got MCSE and CCNA > certifications. > But I couldn't stop my interest in knowing more on > network knowledge. > > There might be some people who would say, " none of > these guys would be hired." > Well, the biggest irony that I have is that who is > going to start his or her career in IT industry if > everyone is looking for only experienced engineer. > That is why I am looking for entry level of job. I > wouldn't be able to perform in the beginning as much > as years of experienced CCNP would do. But I am sure > that I could learn things faster than most of > entry-level job applicants. > If nobody offers me a job, I would go for CCIE without > any corporation experience. I would buy network > devices, and take ccie lab classes. I wonder if there > is anyone who made ccie without any corporation > experience. I wish there were. If not, I will be the > first one who becomes ccie without experience. I am > not talking about home-network or training school > network experience. I am talking about the experience > that can be obtained as a network engineer. > I know it would be harder to become ccie without real > world experience, but I believe that lots of members > who showed their concern would be with me. > When I become CCIE, I will put nothing but CCIE, and > see if anyone gives me job offer. > I wonder if people who emphasizes on only experience > still wouldn't hire me. > > For the people who are already out there and working > for company without any certification, I respect them > because they might have had harder time on getting a > job than I do. > > Since I posted my message, I had some job interviews. > Well, I will see how it will go. > Once again, Thanks you for encouragement and advices. > I will definitely let you know if I got hired. > > > jeongwoo > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster - Should be our poster child
I started in this industry in 95 after a career change, I was a Chef for 12 years, and taught music for two years before that. Third career working with computers. I want to be a lawyer next, fourth career. Whatever!! A friend of mine had a family member who had a small consulting business, and I started working with them when they needed a grunt. It was during the Win95 buzz when people would pay for you to upgrade their OS. They used to get 179$ to upgrade a computer with a licensed copy of Win95. Unbelievable!!! The consultant company also did a lot of rewiring too, used to be a lot of Cat3 in those walls. So we would install Cat5. I swallowed a lot of dust bunnies in the day. Got paid 7$ an hour but it was a start, and I would do it all again because like you, I (and many here) love it. Now I have a great position and great pay, the best part is, it's like I don't have a job, but am getting paid for my hobby. So good luck Jeongwoo you will find something, I know how you feel I was there. With the attitude you expressed in your last post, you should be the poster child for all that is good about this group, and certification, and this profession. Duck - Original Message - From: jeongwoo park <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Groupstudy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:55 PM Subject: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster > Hi group members!! > I am the original poster of this thread. > First of all, I appreciate your encouragements, > concerns and even criticizing point. I received more > replies than I expected. > > There were some people who made a point on removing my > ccnp cert from my resume. > It was not only thoughtful suggestion, but also scary > suggestion, because I felt that removing it from my > resume was like 7 months of ccnp prep going down the > drain all of a sudden. > However, I made up my mind not remove it. > My intension of listing ccnp on my resume was to show > how much interest I have on networking. I believe that > there is clear difference between ccna without > experience and ccnp without experience. If I were > employer, I would hire ccnp without experience because > there is obviously difference between these two guys > in terms of the amount of technical knowledge and > potential performance that he or she might make. > As some members mentioned, lots of people consider > their careers from IT industry because of money. I > agree with them not only I am partly one of them, but > also money can be one of strong motivation in > advancing their living condition. But money doesn't > give me enough motivation as my interest in networking > does. I didn't even consider CCNP. I was going to > start to look for a job after I got MCSE and CCNA > certifications. > But I couldn't stop my interest in knowing more on > network knowledge. > > There might be some people who would say, " none of > these guys would be hired." > Well, the biggest irony that I have is that who is > going to start his or her career in IT industry if > everyone is looking for only experienced engineer. > That is why I am looking for entry level of job. I > wouldn't be able to perform in the beginning as much > as years of experienced CCNP would do. But I am sure > that I could learn things faster than most of > entry-level job applicants. > If nobody offers me a job, I would go for CCIE without > any corporation experience. I would buy network > devices, and take ccie lab classes. I wonder if there > is anyone who made ccie without any corporation > experience. I wish there were. If not, I will be the > first one who becomes ccie without experience. I am > not talking about home-network or training school > network experience. I am talking about the experience > that can be obtained as a network engineer. > I know it would be harder to become ccie without real > world experience, but I believe that lots of members > who showed their concern would be with me. > When I become CCIE, I will put nothing but CCIE, and > see if anyone gives me job offer. > I wonder if people who emphasizes on only experience > still wouldn't hire me. > > For the people who are already out there and working > for company without any certification, I respect them > because they might have had harder time on getting a > job than I do. > > Since I posted my message, I had some job interviews. > Well, I will see how it will go. > Once again, Thanks you for encouragement and advices. > I will definitely let you know if I got hired. > > > jeongwoo > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _ > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Repo
RE: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster - Should be our poster child
Jeongwoo, All of the tea in China won't help someone who is only paper certified. I feel that you should do what all people must do at times when an intense decision looms on the horizon; re-evaluate your situation. Here's where I am going with that: Ok, fine you have your CCNP, how much experience do you have? Before you make the mistake of over marketing yourself, I would encourage you to evaluate yourself honestly and perhaps you could get Chuck, Howard or Priscilla to act as sounding boards to you. You're in a difficult position because of the time and effort that you invested in studying for your exams, and I think we all appreciate that. However, you will be doing yourself a sincere disservice if simply ignore the good counsel that you are privvy to (as are all of us), based off of our memberships and contributions to this list. Lets add further complications to the mix. Let's say you go and pass the written and lab and your experience is confined solely to sterile lab environments, how well do you believe you will be recepted by employers? I would imagine that regardless of the fact that you had a number (hypothetically), you might encounter similar disappointment in that most employers value experience+certification. Its a simple equation: experience+certification=success. If anyone sincerely disagrees with me on this one, then I welcome the flames...bring'em on, however I maintain that the marriage of certification+experience is what secures success and that when people get paper crazy it only serves to degrade the value of the certification. My 2cents, you may begin your flamesin five,four,three,two,one... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Donald B Johnson Jr Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 7:28 PM To: jeongwoo park; Groupstudy Subject: Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster - Should be our poster child I started in this industry in 95 after a career change, I was a Chef for 12 years, and taught music for two years before that. Third career working with computers. I want to be a lawyer next, fourth career. Whatever!! A friend of mine had a family member who had a small consulting business, and I started working with them when they needed a grunt. It was during the Win95 buzz when people would pay for you to upgrade their OS. They used to get 179$ to upgrade a computer with a licensed copy of Win95. Unbelievable!!! The consultant company also did a lot of rewiring too, used to be a lot of Cat3 in those walls. So we would install Cat5. I swallowed a lot of dust bunnies in the day. Got paid 7$ an hour but it was a start, and I would do it all again because like you, I (and many here) love it. Now I have a great position and great pay, the best part is, it's like I don't have a job, but am getting paid for my hobby. So good luck Jeongwoo you will find something, I know how you feel I was there. With the attitude you expressed in your last post, you should be the poster child for all that is good about this group, and certification, and this profession. Duck - Original Message - From: jeongwoo park <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Groupstudy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:55 PM Subject: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster > Hi group members!! > I am the original poster of this thread. > First of all, I appreciate your encouragements, > concerns and even criticizing point. I received more > replies than I expected. > > There were some people who made a point on removing my > ccnp cert from my resume. > It was not only thoughtful suggestion, but also scary > suggestion, because I felt that removing it from my > resume was like 7 months of ccnp prep going down the > drain all of a sudden. > However, I made up my mind not remove it. > My intension of listing ccnp on my resume was to show > how much interest I have on networking. I believe that > there is clear difference between ccna without > experience and ccnp without experience. If I were > employer, I would hire ccnp without experience because > there is obviously difference between these two guys > in terms of the amount of technical knowledge and > potential performance that he or she might make. > As some members mentioned, lots of people consider > their careers from IT industry because of money. I > agree with them not only I am partly one of them, but > also money can be one of strong motivation in > advancing their living condition. But money doesn't > give me enough motivation as my interest in networking > does. I didn't even consider CCNP. I was going to > start to look for a job after I got MCSE and CCNA > certifications. > But I couldn't stop my interest in knowing more on > network knowledge. > > There might be some people who would say, " none of > thes
Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster - Should be our poster child
I agree, and according to the Cisco Web site: experience=training=self-study= 33% certification = (experience + training + self-study). if experience = 0 certification = training + self-study ""William E. Gragido"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 000801c07caf$d831fe90$1f0110ac@gragid">news:000801c07caf$d831fe90$1f0110ac@gragid... > Jeongwoo, All of the tea in China won't help someone who is only paper > certified. I feel that you should do what all people must do at times when > an intense decision looms on the horizon; re-evaluate your situation. > Here's where I am going with that: Ok, fine you have your CCNP, how much > experience do you have? Before you make the mistake of over marketing > yourself, I would encourage you to evaluate yourself honestly and perhaps > you could get Chuck, Howard or Priscilla to act as sounding boards to you. > You're in a difficult position because of the time and effort that you > invested in studying for your exams, and I think we all appreciate that. > However, you will be doing yourself a sincere disservice if simply ignore > the good counsel that you are privvy to (as are all of us), based off of our > memberships and contributions to this list. Lets add further complications > to the mix. Let's say you go and pass the written and lab and your > experience is confined solely to sterile lab environments, how well do you > believe you will be recepted by employers? I would imagine that regardless > of the fact that you had a number (hypothetically), you might encounter > similar disappointment in that most employers value > experience+certification. Its a simple equation: > experience+certification=success. If anyone sincerely disagrees with me on > this one, then I welcome the flames...bring'em on, however I maintain that > the marriage of certification+experience is what secures success and that > when people get paper crazy it only serves to degrade the value of the > certification. My 2cents, you may begin your flamesin > five,four,three,two,one... > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Donald B Johnson Jr > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 7:28 PM > To: jeongwoo park; Groupstudy > Subject: Re: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster - Should be our > poster child > > > I started in this industry in 95 after a career change, I was a Chef for 12 > years, and taught music for two years before that. Third career working with > computers. I want to be a lawyer next, fourth career. Whatever!! A friend of > mine had a family member who had a small consulting business, and I started > working with them when they needed a grunt. It was during the Win95 buzz > when people would pay for you to upgrade their OS. They used to get 179$ to > upgrade a computer with a licensed copy of Win95. Unbelievable!!! The > consultant company also did a lot of rewiring too, used to be a lot of Cat3 > in those walls. So we would install Cat5. I swallowed a lot of dust bunnies > in the day. Got paid 7$ an hour but it was a start, and I would do it all > again because like you, I (and many here) love it. Now I have a great > position and great pay, the best part is, it's like I don't have a job, but > am getting paid for my hobby. So good luck Jeongwoo you will find something, > I know how you feel I was there. With the attitude you expressed in your > last post, you should be the poster child for all that is good about this > group, and certification, and this profession. > Duck > > > - Original Message - > From: jeongwoo park <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Groupstudy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:55 PM > Subject: Disappointed with CCNP --Original poster > > > > Hi group members!! > > I am the original poster of this thread. > > First of all, I appreciate your encouragements, > > concerns and even criticizing point. I received more > > replies than I expected. > > > > There were some people who made a point on removing my > > ccnp cert from my resume. > > It was not only thoughtful suggestion, but also scary > > suggestion, because I felt that removing it from my > > resume was like 7 months of ccnp prep going down the > > drain all of a sudden. > > However, I made up my mind not remove it. > > My intension of listing ccnp on my resume was to show > > how much interest I have on networking. I believe that > > there is clear difference between ccna without > > experience and ccnp without experience. If I were > > employer, I would hire ccnp without experience because > > there is obviously difference between these
