Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[nausetbeach--- via CnC-List]

A belated thanks for all the responses.  The Stanley, B&D and West Marine 15 
amp chargers all look to be the same, or nearly the same, units with different 
badging.  I found the B&D charger at HD and have that now charging the 
batteries.   

 

Now if only there were warmer temps could get the bottom prep done and get the 
boat launched.  

 

Brian

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Peter Cowenhoven 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2020 10:13 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Peter Cowenhoven 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

 

I've got 3 batteries I took home as well.  The Black & Decker 15 amp smart 
charger has worked great.  It does a full charge and then goes to float mode so 
you can keep it hooked up if you want.  Decent price too.

 

Peter Cowenhoven

84 Landfall 35

Portland, CT 

Westbrook, CT (Summer)

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
 

 

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 4:38 PM, Nathan Post via CnC-List

< <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

I have this one which I am happy with. STANLEY BC25BS Fully Automatic 25... 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BYFSUJW?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Does a good job of topping off batteries and then trickling them.  Also doesn’t 
require user to figure out what type of battery it is (AGM, gel or wet).

Nathan


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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[Peter Cowenhoven via CnC-List]

I've got 3 batteries I took home as well.  The Black & Decker 15 amp smart 
charger has worked great.  It does a full charge and then goes to float mode so 
you can keep it hooked up if you want.  Decent price too.
Peter Cowenhoven84 Landfall 35Portland, CT Westbrook, CT (Summer)

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 4:38 PM, Nathan Post via 
CnC-List wrote:   I have this one which I am happy with. 
STANLEY BC25BS Fully Automatic 25... 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BYFSUJW?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Does a good job of topping off batteries and then trickling them.  Also doesn’t 
require user to figure out what type of battery it is (AGM, gel or wet).

Nathan
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[Nathan Post via CnC-List]

I have this one which I am happy with. STANLEY BC25BS Fully Automatic 25... 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BYFSUJW?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Does a good job of topping off batteries and then trickling them.  Also doesn’t 
require user to figure out what type of battery it is (AGM, gel or wet).

Nathan
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

I have a Schumacher 612A-PE Starter Charger for home use. I have a separate
charger on board for my AGM batteries. the home charger works on 6V and 12
V batteries, and can give you 50 amp starter current if you can't wait for
your dead car battery to charge. I've had it for years, and highly
recommend it.

Alan Bergen

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 9:48 AM nausetbeach--- via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Does anyone have a recommendation for a good at home battery charger?  My
> charger died earlier this week.  It was a “smart” charger made by
> Schumacher but it never seemed to really get the batteries fully charged.
> I never could find out the charging parameters.  Having a charger with an
> option which can force an equalization step seems like a necessary
> capability.  I have flooded batteries and do not see changing type in the
> near future.
>
>
>
> By way of background, last fall I asked about storing batteries over the
> winter – Rob A, Marek, Ken H and others all recommended leaving them on
> board, and Ken sent a link to an article on RC’s / Marine How To website
> about battery storage, which was very helpful.  In that article RC strongly
> suggested the batteries should be at full charge and they should be fine
> come spring.  I had zero confidence my battery charger [a home / garage
> charger, do not have an on board charger or even any AC on board] would be
> up to the task so once again I brought the batteries home.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I have a Marinco trickle charger that does well at keeping batteries up during 
storage. It has horrendous RFI though if you happen to have an HF radio at 
home, pretty much S9 noise from 1 to 30 MHz ☹


Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 1:40 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Randy Stafford 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

Hi Brian,

I also have a Schumacher charger, model SC4.  It seemed to work well enough for 
my purposes.  A couple years ago a cycling bilge pump ran my batteries flat on 
two occasions, and I had to pull them out and bring them home for charging.  I 
don’t know how you’re defining “fully charged” but if I recall correctly I 
would have 13.6 volts of potential from each battery after charging on the 
Schumacher.  I don’t have a battery level meter on my boat.

I’ve got a small solar panel and charge controller on my boat that 
trickle-charges the batteries.  It keeps them topped up enough that I leave 
them on board over the winter and have the amperage to start the A4 on launch 
in the spring.  I’ve got a pair of group 29 lead/acid batteries that I topped 
up with distilled water when I brought them home to recharge.  Two years after 
running them both flat twice, and recharging them with that Schumacher SC4, 
they’re still giving perfect service.

If I recall correctly I bought that Schumacher unit because it was relatively 
inexpensive.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO


On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:47 AM, nausetbeach--- via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good at home battery charger?  My 
charger died earlier this week.  It was a “smart” charger made by Schumacher 
but it never seemed to really get the batteries fully charged.  I never could 
find out the charging parameters.  Having a charger with an option which can 
force an equalization step seems like a necessary capability.  I have flooded 
batteries and do not see changing type in the near future.

By way of background, last fall I asked about storing batteries over the winter 
– Rob A, Marek, Ken H and others all recommended leaving them on board, and Ken 
sent a link to an article on RC’s / Marine How To website about battery 
storage, which was very helpful.  In that article RC strongly suggested the 
batteries should be at full charge and they should be fine come spring.  I had 
zero confidence my battery charger [a home / garage charger, do not have an on 
board charger or even any AC on board] would be up to the task so once again I 
brought the batteries home.

Thanks,
Brian
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger at home?

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi Brian,

I also have a Schumacher charger, model SC4.  It seemed to work well enough for 
my purposes.  A couple years ago a cycling bilge pump ran my batteries flat on 
two occasions, and I had to pull them out and bring them home for charging.  I 
don’t know how you’re defining “fully charged” but if I recall correctly I 
would have 13.6 volts of potential from each battery after charging on the 
Schumacher.  I don’t have a battery level meter on my boat.

I’ve got a small solar panel and charge controller on my boat that 
trickle-charges the batteries.  It keeps them topped up enough that I leave 
them on board over the winter and have the amperage to start the A4 on launch 
in the spring.  I’ve got a pair of group 29 lead/acid batteries that I topped 
up with distilled water when I brought them home to recharge.  Two years after 
running them both flat twice, and recharging them with that Schumacher SC4, 
they’re still giving perfect service.

If I recall correctly I bought that Schumacher unit because it was relatively 
inexpensive.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:47 AM, nausetbeach--- via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a recommendation for a good at home battery charger?  My 
> charger died earlier this week.  It was a “smart” charger made by Schumacher 
> but it never seemed to really get the batteries fully charged.  I never could 
> find out the charging parameters.  Having a charger with an option which can 
> force an equalization step seems like a necessary capability.  I have flooded 
> batteries and do not see changing type in the near future.  
>  
> By way of background, last fall I asked about storing batteries over the 
> winter – Rob A, Marek, Ken H and others all recommended leaving them on 
> board, and Ken sent a link to an article on RC’s / Marine How To website 
> about battery storage, which was very helpful.  In that article RC strongly 
> suggested the batteries should be at full charge and they should be fine come 
> spring.  I had zero confidence my battery charger [a home / garage charger, 
> do not have an on board charger or even any AC on board] would be up to the 
> task so once again I brought the batteries home.  
>  
> Thanks,
> Brian
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
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Re: Stus-List battery charger

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

When I am on my mooring I have a 50 watt solar panel I put out. It does 
a great job keeping the batteries up.


Here is what I have:

https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocrystalline-Efficiency-Charging-Applications/dp/B07GTH79JP/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1YHG5B6WOEU25&keywords=renogy+50+watt+solar+panel&qid=1579272135&sprefix=renogy+50+watt+sola%2Caps%2C148&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/Morningstar-SG-4-SunGuard-Charge-Controller/dp/B000O3O0W2/ref=sr_1_2?crid=LEY8OPSIU151&keywords=morningstar+solar+charge+controller&qid=1579272250&sprefix=morningstar+solar%2Caps%2C141&sr=8-2

Between both of them I have about $120 or so in this setup. I use it 
also cruising while at anchor. The panel is not mounted, I have it on a 
long cord and place it to get the most sun.


Joe Della Barba

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I   Kent Island MD USA



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Re: Stus-List battery charger

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I bot one of these

https://powerwerx.com/guest-2701a-battery-charger-maintainer

 

for a hybrid car that is left idle for many months at a time and the starter
battery would discharge within a month.

Also got one for a forklift that is rarely used, they work great, hook up to
the battery and just leave the cord hang out.

 

While you are on that site, you might also want one of these, it keeps
everyone happy.  https://powerwerx.com/usb-adapter-lightning-typec-micro

This was also well worth 30 bucks,
https://powerwerx.com/panel-dual-usb-quick-charge-qc30-blue

It actually does the Samsung fast-charge protocol.  It may also work with
other fast charge phones.

 

Bill Coleman

Erie PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of John and
Maryann Read via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 8:22 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: John and Maryann Read
Subject: Stus-List battery charger

 

Our ancient deep cycle charger died so in the market for a new one.  Use it
only to top off group 27 batteries in winter and spring before launch.  Boat
lives on a mooring, minimal electronics on board, normal engine running is
typically enough to keep charged during the season.  Do not intend to
permanent mount in boat. Portable, multi stage, 1 bank nothing fancy is just
fine.  Internet seems to favor BMK 12V 5amp
https://www.amazon.com/BMK-Maintainer-Detachable-Alligator-Waterproof/dp/B06
XK7PM9F

 

Thoughts??

 

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C&C 34

Noank, CT

 

 

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Re: Stus-List battery charger

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi John,
I have a different take on things:
1).  Battery chargers should not be left connected unattended on a boat.  The 
acid can boil off, the battery can become hot and start a fire, etc.  It's just 
not good practice.  If you want to charge your batteries over the winter, 
either remove them and bring them home, or connect a more robust portable 
charger that will properly top off the batteries while you are working on the 
boat in the fall or spring.  The small trickle charger you showed a link to is, 
well...  Cheap.  Too cheap, and IMHO, not the right solution.

2).  If your 34 is anything like our old 27 MKIII, there is adequate space on 
the sliding companionway hatch to mount a small, thin solar panel.  Some (like 
the one on our old 27), are even robust enough to step on.  Then, add a small 
charge controller, ideally a MPPT version which are much more efficient than 
the PWM ones.  Finally, add a battery combiner that charges both the house and 
starting battery when a charge current exists (whether from the engine or solar 
panel).  You can then run on the #1 or #2 setting, knowing the other battery is 
charged and ready to start the engine.
The real benefit of going with the solar panel is that the batteries are kept 
charged all the time.  Even when the boat is on the hard.  All you then need to 
do is to keep an eye on the water in the batteries.  By so doing, the life of 
the batteries will be GREATLY extended (we normally got at least 5 years out of 
a set of batteries) and I always knew I had enough power.
My boat too, lived on a mooring in summer.  We ran a light load of electronics, 
a wheel autopilot, stereo, and a few lights.  We stayed on the boat every 
weekend.  We even had a small inverter we used to run a 24" flat panel TV 
mounted to the bulkhead which had an antenna and an integrated DVD player.  We 
didn't use it a lot, but it was nice to have when we were facing a rainy 
evening on the can.  

The solar panel, controller and combiner may cost you a couple hundred dollars, 
but you'll have peace of mind things are really charged and you won't spend as 
much on batteries.  

Worked for me for over 10 years,

Bruce Whitmore
1994 CYC 37/40+"Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
 

On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 8:20:17 PM EST, John and Maryann Read via 
CnC-List  wrote:  
 
 
Our ancient deep cycle charger died so in the market for a new one.  Use it 
only to top off group 27 batteries in winter and spring before launch.  Boat 
lives on a mooring, minimal electronics on board, normal engine running is 
typically enough to keep charged during the season.  Do not intend to permanent 
mount in boat. Portable, multi stage, 1 bank nothing fancy is just fine.  
Internet seems to favor BMK 12V 5amp  
https://www.amazon.com/BMK-Maintainer-Detachable-Alligator-Waterproof/dp/B06XK7PM9F

  

Thoughts??

  

  

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C&C 34

Noank, CT

  

  
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Re: Stus-List battery charger

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

Mount one ! It’s one of the easiest  DIY jobs of the many boat projects, I  
just installed a  nauticpro  love it  !

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon
S/V Heartbeat
www.flirtingwithfire.com


On Jan 16, 2020, at 8:20 PM, John and Maryann Read via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Our ancient deep cycle charger died so in the market for a new one.  Use it 
only to top off group 27 batteries in winter and spring before launch.  Boat 
lives on a mooring, minimal electronics on board, normal engine running is 
typically enough to keep charged during the season.  Do not intend to permanent 
mount in boat. Portable, multi stage, 1 bank nothing fancy is just fine.  
Internet seems to favor BMK 12V 5amp  
https://www.amazon.com/BMK-Maintainer-Detachable-Alligator-Waterproof/dp/B06XK7PM9F

Thoughts??


John and Maryann
Legacy III
1982 C&C 34
Noank, CT


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Re: Stus-List Battery charger

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Hi, Jim — a 20amp charger is pretty minimal for your battery setup and 
electrical needs; typical minimum would be based 0n 10% of your house bank’s 
total amp-hours, which I’d guess to be around 300 amp-hours or so.  So you’d be 
looking at a 30-amp or larger battery charger.

The Mastervolt 35-amp would be a good choice; and I also have some friends who 
have put in the ProMariner ProNauticP 30-amp charger:

https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2289962%7C2289966&id=1512412
 

Defender sells these for about $360.00; unfortunately I can’t get these at cost 
as my vendor does not carry them.  But they look like a nice charger.  And you 
can get a decent remote for them, as well:

https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?name=promariner-digital-display-and-remote-control&path=-1%7C328%7C2289962%7C2289970&id=1795912
 


The remote options for the Mastervolt use the MasterBus display, which is about 
a $400.00 item.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Feb 5, 2018, at 7:04 PM, detroito91 via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Looking to replace current prosport12. I carry 4 batteries.  1 for starter 
> and remaining 3 are house.
> Promariner suggests the prosport 20+. (Will control 3)put the house batteries 
> on it use the prospprt 12 to maintain the starter battery. 
> My biggest user would be the norcold refrig. Other than standard radio and 
> lites.
> My question..prosport 20+ , another brand or another way
> Jim schwartz
> SEA YA!
> 38LF 
> washington nc 
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[james via CnC-List]

I really like my Charles 30 amp. very robust.

James

C&C 38 1976

Oriental, NC


On 5/6/2017 8:45 AM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote:
I had two Guest chargers on previous boats that similarly just died.  
On my current boat I installed a Charles 3-bank (I think it's 30 amp) 
"smart" charger.  It was expensive, but is robust.  I haven't had any 
issues since I installed it several years ago.


-Original Message- From: robert via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 9:45 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert
Subject: Stus-List Battery Charger

My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the
dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going
to batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is
charging 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I
checked and it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.
I have no idea how old this device is or how long they are supposed to 
last.


Is there anything else I could check?

However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might
replace it with?

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.


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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger - Update

[Bill Dakin via CnC-List]

You will like it.  We have the model 12 since our loads are small and no need 
for a faster charge with the 20.  Convenient size and long leads.

Bill Dakin

> On May 6, 2017, at 2:29 PM, robert via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> I have concluded the old Guest charger is dead and I just bought a ProMariner 
> dual bank charger.  The new charger 

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

I had two Guest chargers on previous boats that similarly just died.  On my 
current boat I installed a Charles 3-bank (I think it's 30 amp) "smart" 
charger.  It was expensive, but is robust.  I haven't had any issues since I 
installed it several years ago.


-Original Message- 
From: robert via CnC-List

Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 9:45 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: robert
Subject: Stus-List Battery Charger

My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the
dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going
to batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is
charging 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I
checked and it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.
I have no idea how old this device is or how long they are supposed to last.

Is there anything else I could check?

However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might
replace it with?

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.


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to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[jcn--- via CnC-List]

I was looking at installing a Genius Gen2 20A unit.  I found some good reviews 
on it.  Anyone have experience with this one?
James 
Flamingo IV
'71 C&C 35
Lake of the Woods, Ontario

Sent from my iPad

> On May 6, 2017, at 5:56 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> My Guest Pro 2815 died the same way.  I replaced mine with a ProMariner 
> Pronautic 1230P.
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C&C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
>> On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 9:45 PM, robert via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the dustit 
>> was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going to batteries 
>> and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is charging 'green' when in 
>> float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I checked and it looks 
>> finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.  I have no idea how old 
>> this device is or how long they are supposed to last.
>> 
>> Is there anything else I could check?
>> 
>> However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might replace 
>> it with?
>> 
>> Rob Abbott
>> AZURA
>> C&C 32 -84
>> Halifax, N.S.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

My Guest Pro 2815 died the same way.  I replaced mine with a ProMariner
Pronautic 1230P.
Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C&C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 9:45 PM, robert via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the
> dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going to
> batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is charging
> 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I checked and
> it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.  I have no idea
> how old this device is or how long they are supposed to last.
>
> Is there anything else I could check?
>
> However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might
> replace it with?
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 -84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
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>
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Failing repair, Promariner, Mastervolt and Blue Sea all make good
chargers.  Don't mind Guest chargers.

Have not had good luck with Xantrex TrueCharge 2's.

Dennis C.


On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 9:15 PM, robert via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Josh:
>
> Thanks.I looked up the charger on Google and found a manual, not a
> good one, but one that said may be it could be one of two fuses on the
> inside of the chargerto take the cover off and check the fuses.It
> also said the charger won't work if one or both of the batteries are
> badboth batteries are showing 12.5V.  It also said to remove the DC
> negative on the battery, reapply the AC and see if the green light comes on.
>
> Will try these things tomorrow.if no luck, there will be a new
> charger.  Will update.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
> On 2017-05-05 10:59 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:
>
> If I had to guess the fuse is on the output or DC side of the charger.
> You might try taking it apart carefully to see if there is a fuse on the
> inside.  Of course you need to make sure that your power coming in is good
> and connections tight.  Likewise for the output.  Also make sure that the
> battery is good.  Some chargers detect a bad battery and then turn off.
>
> For new options, I have not been dissatisfied in the slightest with my
> ProMariner pronautic 1260.  12v 60Amps.
> http://www.promariner.com/en/63160 This is probably more amps than you
> need but they make lower power models. http://www.promariner.com/en/
> products/dry-mount-chargers
> I replaced a 40amp zantrex trucharge with a 60amp and both died nearly
> right out of the box.  I've since had no trouble with the ProMariner for
> over 5 years.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Fri, May 5, 2017, 9:46 PM robert via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>> My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the
>> dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going
>> to batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is
>> charging 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I
>> checked and it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.
>> I have no idea how old this device is or how long they are supposed to
>> last.
>>
>> Is there anything else I could check?
>>
>> However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might
>> replace it with?
>>
>> Rob Abbott
>> AZURA
>> C&C 32 -84
>> Halifax, N.S.
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[robert via CnC-List]

Josh:

Thanks.I looked up the charger on Google and found a manual, not a 
good one, but one that said may be it could be one of two fuses on the 
inside of the chargerto take the cover off and check the fuses.
It also said the charger won't work if one or both of the batteries are 
badboth batteries are showing 12.5V.  It also said to remove the DC 
negative on the battery, reapply the AC and see if the green light comes on.


Will try these things tomorrow.if no luck, there will be a new 
charger.  Will update.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2017-05-05 10:59 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List wrote:
If I had to guess the fuse is on the output or DC side of the 
charger.  You might try taking it apart carefully to see if there is a 
fuse on the inside.  Of course you need to make sure that your power 
coming in is good and connections tight.  Likewise for the output.  
Also make sure that the battery is good.  Some chargers detect a bad 
battery and then turn off.


For new options, I have not been dissatisfied in the slightest with my 
ProMariner pronautic 1260.  12v 60Amps.
http://www.promariner.com/en/63160 This is probably more amps than you 
need but they make lower power models. 
http://www.promariner.com/en/products/dry-mount-chargers
I replaced a 40amp zantrex trucharge with a 60amp and both died nearly 
right out of the box.  I've since had no trouble with the ProMariner 
for over 5 years.


Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Fri, May 5, 2017, 9:46 PM robert via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the
dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge
going
to batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is
charging 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse
which I
checked and it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be
sure.
I have no idea how old this device is or how long they are
supposed to last.

Is there anything else I could check?

However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might
replace it with?

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.


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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

If I had to guess the fuse is on the output or DC side of the charger.  You
might try taking it apart carefully to see if there is a fuse on the
inside.  Of course you need to make sure that your power coming in is good
and connections tight.  Likewise for the output.  Also make sure that the
battery is good.  Some chargers detect a bad battery and then turn off.

For new options, I have not been dissatisfied in the slightest with my
ProMariner pronautic 1260.  12v 60Amps.
http://www.promariner.com/en/63160 This is probably more amps than you need
but they make lower power models.
http://www.promariner.com/en/products/dry-mount-chargers
I replaced a 40amp zantrex trucharge with a 60amp and both died nearly
right out of the box.  I've since had no trouble with the ProMariner for
over 5 years.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Fri, May 5, 2017, 9:46 PM robert via CnC-List 
wrote:

> My old Guest Pro Battery Charger Model 2815 seems to have hit the
> dustit was working yesterday but today it was notno charge going
> to batteries and no lights on on the charger'red' when it is
> charging 'green' when in float mode.  There is an exterior fuse which I
> checked and it looks finemaybe I should replace it just to be sure.
> I have no idea how old this device is or how long they are supposed to
> last.
>
> Is there anything else I could check?
>
> However, if it has simply 'expired', any suggestions on what I might
> replace it with?
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 -84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger advice, please

[David Castor via CnC-List]

50 A is a massive charger.  My boat came with the same Guest Charge Pro
charger. One of the 5 amp outputs goes to the engine battery and the other
goes to the house bank (200 Ah).  It seems to work, although I think the 5
A to the house bank is probably too small.  Per the Guest documentation,
you can connect both outputs in parallel for 10 A.  It is a "smart" charger
and will maintain a trickle float charge after charging., so you can leave
it on.

Dave

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:41 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Our 1994 C&C 37/40+ has 2 battery chargers.  There is also a ProMariner
> ProSport 12, Gen 3 which is currently hooked up to the house bank,
> comprised of 2 Series 31 lead acid batteries. It was originally hooked up
> to one gel cell and one lead acid (I know, *wrong*) and was set to the
> gel cell setting.  Now that I have reverted back to solely lead acid, I
> have changed it back to charge on the lead acid setting.
>
> One 50 amp model, which is clearly original equipment, and hums when it is
> on.  Not my favorite noise, but maybe that's just me.
>
> In the pile of stuff left behind by the P.O. is a Guest Charge Pro 2611A,
> 10 amp charger (5/5).  It seems to work.  Considering the solid-state and
> quite nature of these, If I connect the starting battery (also a Series 31)
> to the 10 amp charger, and leave the ProSport 12 connected to the house
> bank, 1). Would this provide sufficient charging power?  2).  Is there a
> reason to keep the old 50 amp unit?  That one, in addition to humming,
> takes up a lot of space which I could use for additional storage.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
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>
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> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger advice, please

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Bruce,

Your proposal should work but, here are a few things to consider.  Lead
acid batteries should normally not be charged at a rate greater than 20% of
capacity.  Group 31 batteries usually have about 100Ah of capacity so lets
assume that your house bank is 200Ah and 20% is 40 Amps.  Your start bank
would be 20 Amps.  Now if you were to go cruising and drained your house
bank to the recommended max discharge of 50% or 100Ah then when you pulled
in to the marina you would be limited to the charge rate of whatever
charger you had.  A 20amp charger would take ~5 hours.  There are some
inefficiencies at the top end so lets add 2 hours for a total of 7.

Imagine if that was a 10amp charger.  You be waiting 10 hours +2 for a
total of 12 hours.  Your 12 amp charger isn't going to be much faster.  If
this is all fine for you then you'll likely be happy with the setup.  You
should also consider the loads which you'll be running while charging.  If
you stay aboard for a night then you'll be using the entertainment, lights,
fridge, water, etc.  The loads add up and take away from that which is
going to charge the batteries.

I have been satisfied with my ProMariner P-Nautic 1260.  It charges my
400Ah bank on one of three channels and my 200Ah bank on another.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD




On Mar 31, 2017 4:42 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hello all,

Our 1994 C&C 37/40+ has 2 battery chargers.  There is also a ProMariner
ProSport 12, Gen 3 which is currently hooked up to the house bank,
comprised of 2 Series 31 lead acid batteries. It was originally hooked up
to one gel cell and one lead acid (I know, *wrong*) and was set to the gel
cell setting.  Now that I have reverted back to solely lead acid, I have
changed it back to charge on the lead acid setting.

One 50 amp model, which is clearly original equipment, and hums when it is
on.  Not my favorite noise, but maybe that's just me.

In the pile of stuff left behind by the P.O. is a Guest Charge Pro 2611A,
10 amp charger (5/5).  It seems to work.  Considering the solid-state and
quite nature of these, If I connect the starting battery (also a Series 31)
to the 10 amp charger, and leave the ProSport 12 connected to the house
bank, 1). Would this provide sufficient charging power?  2).  Is there a
reason to keep the old 50 amp unit?  That one, in addition to humming,
takes up a lot of space which I could use for additional storage.

Thanks!

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger

[Edward Levert via CnC-List]

On Saturday, November 12, 2016, Mitchell's via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Edd, Change your dilithium crystals!
> But seriously, lots of good advice, I would also consider a good quality
> multi meter that you can trust for accurate voltage. I have an Ideal
> digital multi meter that also measures AC & DC amps that you clamp on a
> single wire. It wasn't expensive and I use it everywhere. I guess I don't
> trust all the gadgets we have on board and some of the old equipment is non
> digital. You can use it for continuity and other diagnostics. Nigel
> Calder's book on marine electrical is worth a look if you don't have it. He
> simplifies it, my favourite tool is a hammer and vice grips run a close
> second!
> Len
> 89 37+ Crazy Legs
> Midland On.
>
> Sent from my mobile device.
>
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>
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> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Rick,

Thanks. You and Josh have been incredibly helpful on this -- I tried to save a 
few bucks and now I'm probably doing more harm than good. 


All the best,

Edd

---
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
NCC-1701-B
C&C 37+ | City Island, NY
www.StarshipSailing.com
---
914.332.4400  | Office
914.774.9767  | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone 7
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize

On Nov 11, 2016, at 11:50 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List  
wrote:

Edd;
 
From earlier posts I have the impression that you have a 12v flooded house bank 
of around 500 AH, plus a single gel cell 12v battery of 100 or less, I seem to 
recall from an old discussion that you were planning to install a bank of 6v 
golf cart batteries for the house bank – though my recollection may be wrong.
 
You have a Blue Sea SI or Battery Link ACR connecting the house and start 
batteries.
 
For starters, the Pro Mariner 43006 charger is a single bank charger delivering 
a maximum of 6 amps. Per the Pro Mariner catalog is designed for a SINGLE BCI 
24 through 31 series 12v battery. Which means a battery with between 50 and 
100-120AH. And if you do have a house bank of golf cart batteries, Pro Mariner 
specifically says the 6 amp charger is not suitable and recommends another 
charger model for GC, 4D and 8D batteries.
 
The rule of thumb explained to me by a tech at Pro Mariner (I have a ProNautic 
50A charger on my 38 based on their recommendation for my 460AH house and 115AH 
start banks – all flooded batteries) is to have charger amperage at least 10% 
of the bank AH rating. So you need a larger charger, probably in the 50A range. 
Among other things, if your house bank is 500AH and is depleted to 50% 
(somewhere around 11.5v) the 6a charger would take a minimum of 42 hours to 
recharge the house bank.
 
The charge profile shown for the charger shows that after system checks 
(probably initial voltage, continuity, and resistance) it starts at battery 
voltage and goes to 14.6v for absorption charging. It almost certainly ramps up 
the charge voltage in response to what it calculates as the internal resistance 
of the battery (remember it is designed for only 1 battery of relatively 
limited size). During absorption charging the voltage is constant and current 
falls as the internal resistance of the battery increases. When the current 
flow reaches a certain point, the charger reverts to a 13.4v float charge and 
periodically bumps up to 14.6 to measure state of charge, and then drips back 
to 13.4 to trickle charge the battery.
 
Now your large house bank will absorb a lot of current before the internal 
resistance rises appreciably; which the charger is possibly interpreting as a 
low state of charge. So it ramps up the voltage to increase charge current. 
There is an overvoltage cutout at 16.0V, so it would not go over that level. 
And I wouldn’t think it would go over 14.6 unless there is a glitch in the 
control software. But I would suggest calling the techs at Pro Mariner to see 
what they have to say.
 
Another potential cause – though it seems sort of a long shot - might be your 
mix of flooded house and gel start batteries. They have different charge 
profiles, and the gel battery absorption charge and float charge are done at 
different voltages than the flooded batteries (14.1 and 13.8 respectively). Is 
it possible that after the ACR closes the charger sense less internal 
resistance, interprets this as lower state of charge, and ramps up the voltage 
to produce higher charge current? Which since it is limited to only 6A does not 
change, and the charger continues to ramp up the voltage until it gets to the 
16v overcharge voltage limit? Again a question  for the techs at Pro Mariner.
 
I suspect your short term solution will end up being to shut off the ACR when 
charging the house bank (after all, your start battery should never get below 
about 90-95% charge – call it 12.5v). Longer term you might think about an 
appropriately sized two bank charger. Or you might want to replace your ACR 
with an Echo Charger (which would only close when the house bank was charging 
and the start bank was significantly discharged).
 
 
Rick Brass
Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2
la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1
Washington, NC
 
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 5:20 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Edd Schillay 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details
 
It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006 
 
   

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Doug,
 If the battery charger has an Equalization Phase, then the charge
voltage will be between 15-16 volts.  This is something that should be done
rarely (once every few months to once a year).  Perhaps the the charger is
defective, or possibly it gets confused if the charger is shut off before
the equalization phase is complete and returns to that phase when
restarted.  I think it is more likely that the charger is defective.

See:
http://shop.pkys.com/Battery-Equalization_ep_44.html

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C&C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 11:06 PM, Douglas Mountjoy via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> To the best of my knowledge a 12v battery charger should not go over 14.6
> or so. If it is goig to 15 to 16 volts I would be getting a new charger. A
> friend had this happen with a mastervolt unit and fried his house bank of 2
> T105 6v.
>
> Doug Mountjoy
> SvPegasus
> LF38 #4
> On Friday, November 11, 2016, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> The only single bank ProSport systems are 6amps.  That is pretty small
>> compared to the total capacity of your bank.  ~1%.  I can't explain it but
>> maybe that's part of the problem.  Sometimes certain switching power
>> supplys need a load for them to work properly.  A large enough bank and a
>> small enough charger may act the same way.
>>
>> Did you wire it directly to the battery terminals?  Or did you go to a
>> nearby bus bar or previous feeder wire?
>>
>> I would also like to know what a Multimeter reads at the charger
>> terminals and what the meter reads at the battery terminals (if they aren't
>> the same).  I'm wondering if maybe the charger isn't sensing the same
>> voltage as the boat's meter and the battery.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2016 5:20 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected
>>> to the batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If
>>> so, disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let
>>> the ACR charger the start bank.
>>>
>>> I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's
>>> an ACR or echo charger between the banks.
>>>
>>> Dennis C.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels
 like it’s not — please let me know.

 I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a
 ProSport and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries.
 Within a few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in,
 linking the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.

 After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well
 into 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.

 I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
 mind, defeats the purpose.

 Any thoughts?

 All the best,

 Edd


 Edd M. Schillay
 Starship Enterprise
 C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
 City Island, NY
 Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 









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>>> ___
>>>
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
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>>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> Doug Mountjoy
> sv Pegasus
> LF38
> just west of Ballard, WA
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Edd;

 

>From earlier posts I have the impression that you have a 12v flooded house 
>bank of around 500 AH, plus a single gel cell 12v battery of 100 or less, I 
>seem to recall from an old discussion that you were planning to install a bank 
>of 6v golf cart batteries for the house bank – though my recollection may be 
>wrong.

 

You have a Blue Sea SI or Battery Link ACR connecting the house and start 
batteries.

 

For starters, the Pro Mariner 43006 charger is a single bank charger delivering 
a maximum of 6 amps. Per the Pro Mariner catalog is designed for a SINGLE BCI 
24 through 31 series 12v battery. Which means a battery with between 50 and 
100-120AH. And if you do have a house bank of golf cart batteries, Pro Mariner 
specifically says the 6 amp charger is not suitable and recommends another 
charger model for GC, 4D and 8D batteries.

 

The rule of thumb explained to me by a tech at Pro Mariner (I have a ProNautic 
50A charger on my 38 based on their recommendation for my 460AH house and 115AH 
start banks – all flooded batteries) is to have charger amperage at least 10% 
of the bank AH rating. So you need a larger charger, probably in the 50A range. 
Among other things, if your house bank is 500AH and is depleted to 50% 
(somewhere around 11.5v) the 6a charger would take a minimum of 42 hours to 
recharge the house bank.

 

The charge profile shown for the charger shows that after system checks 
(probably initial voltage, continuity, and resistance) it starts at battery 
voltage and goes to 14.6v for absorption charging. It almost certainly ramps up 
the charge voltage in response to what it calculates as the internal resistance 
of the battery (remember it is designed for only 1 battery of relatively 
limited size). During absorption charging the voltage is constant and current 
falls as the internal resistance of the battery increases. When the current 
flow reaches a certain point, the charger reverts to a 13.4v float charge and 
periodically bumps up to 14.6 to measure state of charge, and then drips back 
to 13.4 to trickle charge the battery.

 

Now your large house bank will absorb a lot of current before the internal 
resistance rises appreciably; which the charger is possibly interpreting as a 
low state of charge. So it ramps up the voltage to increase charge current. 
There is an overvoltage cutout at 16.0V, so it would not go over that level. 
And I wouldn’t think it would go over 14.6 unless there is a glitch in the 
control software. But I would suggest calling the techs at Pro Mariner to see 
what they have to say.

 

Another potential cause – though it seems sort of a long shot - might be your 
mix of flooded house and gel start batteries. They have different charge 
profiles, and the gel battery absorption charge and float charge are done at 
different voltages than the flooded batteries (14.1 and 13.8 respectively). Is 
it possible that after the ACR closes the charger sense less internal 
resistance, interprets this as lower state of charge, and ramps up the voltage 
to produce higher charge current? Which since it is limited to only 6A does not 
change, and the charger continues to ramp up the voltage until it gets to the 
16v overcharge voltage limit? Again a question  for the techs at Pro Mariner.

 

I suspect your short term solution will end up being to shut off the ACR when 
charging the house bank (after all, your start battery should never get below 
about 90-95% charge – call it 12.5v). Longer term you might think about an 
appropriately sized two bank charger. Or you might want to replace your ACR 
with an Echo Charger (which would only close when the house bank was charging 
and the start bank was significantly discharged).

 

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1

Washington, NC

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 5:20 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Edd Schillay 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

 

It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006 

 



 






 

On Nov 11, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected to the 
batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If so, 
disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let the ACR 
charger the start bank.

I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's an ACR 
or echo charger between the banks.

Dennis C.

 

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels like it’s 
not — please let me know. 

 

I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport and 
it’s hooked up 

Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Douglas Mountjoy via CnC-List]

To the best of my knowledge a 12v battery charger should not go over 14.6
or so. If it is goig to 15 to 16 volts I would be getting a new charger. A
friend had this happen with a mastervolt unit and fried his house bank of 2
T105 6v.

Doug Mountjoy
SvPegasus
LF38 #4
On Friday, November 11, 2016, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The only single bank ProSport systems are 6amps.  That is pretty small
> compared to the total capacity of your bank.  ~1%.  I can't explain it but
> maybe that's part of the problem.  Sometimes certain switching power
> supplys need a load for them to work properly.  A large enough bank and a
> small enough charger may act the same way.
>
> Did you wire it directly to the battery terminals?  Or did you go to a
> nearby bus bar or previous feeder wire?
>
> I would also like to know what a Multimeter reads at the charger terminals
> and what the meter reads at the battery terminals (if they aren't the
> same).  I'm wondering if maybe the charger isn't sensing the same voltage
> as the boat's meter and the battery.
>
> Josh
>
> On Nov 11, 2016 5:20 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > wrote:
>
>> It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected to
>> the batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If so,
>> disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let the
>> ACR charger the start bank.
>>
>> I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's an
>> ACR or echo charger between the banks.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels
>>> like it’s not — please let me know.
>>>
>>> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport
>>> and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a
>>> few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking
>>> the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.
>>>
>>> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well
>>> into 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.
>>>
>>> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
>>> mind, defeats the purpose.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Edd
>>>
>>>
>>> Edd M. Schillay
>>> Starship Enterprise
>>> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>> City Island, NY
>>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>

-- 
Doug Mountjoy
sv Pegasus
LF38
just west of Ballard, WA
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

The only single bank ProSport systems are 6amps.  That is pretty small
compared to the total capacity of your bank.  ~1%.  I can't explain it but
maybe that's part of the problem.  Sometimes certain switching power
supplys need a load for them to work properly.  A large enough bank and a
small enough charger may act the same way.

Did you wire it directly to the battery terminals?  Or did you go to a
nearby bus bar or previous feeder wire?

I would also like to know what a Multimeter reads at the charger terminals
and what the meter reads at the battery terminals (if they aren't the
same).  I'm wondering if maybe the charger isn't sensing the same voltage
as the boat's meter and the battery.

Josh

On Nov 11, 2016 5:20 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 11, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected to
> the batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If so,
> disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let the
> ACR charger the start bank.
>
> I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's an
> ACR or echo charger between the banks.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels
>> like it’s not — please let me know.
>>
>> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport
>> and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a
>> few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking
>> the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.
>>
>> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well
>> into 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.
>>
>> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
>> mind, defeats the purpose.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Edd
>>
>>
>> Edd M. Schillay
>> Starship Enterprise
>> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>> City Island, NY
>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

That's a single bank charger.  So it's charging the house bank and the ACR
is charging the start battery.  That's a simple setup.  Sounds like the
charger is a bit wacko to me.  Shouldn't run up the voltage like it's doing.

Dennis C.

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 11, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected to
> the batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If so,
> disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let the
> ACR charger the start bank.
>
> I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's an
> ACR or echo charger between the banks.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels
>> like it’s not — please let me know.
>>
>> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport
>> and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a
>> few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking
>> the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.
>>
>> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well
>> into 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.
>>
>> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
>> mind, defeats the purpose.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Edd
>>
>>
>> Edd M. Schillay
>> Starship Enterprise
>> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>> City Island, NY
>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
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> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

It’s one of these: http://www.promariner.com/en/43006 
 






> On Nov 11, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected to the 
> batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If so, 
> disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let the ACR 
> charger the start bank.
> 
> I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's an ACR 
> or echo charger between the banks.
> 
> Dennis C.
> 
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels like 
> it’s not — please let me know. 
> 
> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport and 
> it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a few 
> moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking the 
> house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery. 
> 
> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well into 
> 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off. 
> 
> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my mind, 
> defeats the purpose. 
> 
> Any thoughts? 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd
> 
> 
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY 
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Is it a two bank charger?  If so, are both charging circuits connected to
the batteries; one to the house bank and one to the start battery?  If so,
disconnect the one to the start battery and see how that works.  Let the
ACR charger the start bank.

I think some chargers don't like to be wired to two banks when there's an
ACR or echo charger between the banks.

Dennis C.

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels like
> it’s not — please let me know.
>
> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport
> and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a
> few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking
> the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.
>
> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well into
> 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.
>
> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
> mind, defeats the purpose.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Ok.  So you could also try using the charger on an independent battery.
Carry one down to the boat (maybe a small U-1 tractor battery) or use your
car.   The idea is to eliminate variables.  If it continues to overcharge
without the ACR in the circuit then you know it's the charger.

Maybe it is set for 24v?  Equalize?

Josh

On Nov 11, 2016 4:47 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Josh,
>
> On the onboard voltage meter.
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
> On Nov 11, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds like a problem with the battery charger.
>
> I would disable the ACR (disconnect the sensing wire if possible) and try
> again.
>
> Are you reading the voltage at the battery terminals, onboard voltage
> meter, or on the charger?
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Nov 11, 2016 4:20 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels
>> like it’s not — please let me know.
>>
>> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport
>> and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a
>> few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking
>> the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.
>>
>> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well
>> into 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.
>>
>> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
>> mind, defeats the purpose.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Edd
>>
>>
>> Edd M. Schillay
>> Starship Enterprise
>> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>> City Island, NY
>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>
>> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Josh,

On the onboard voltage meter. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 



> On Nov 11, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sounds like a problem with the battery charger.
> 
> I would disable the ACR (disconnect the sensing wire if possible) and try 
> again.
> 
> Are you reading the voltage at the battery terminals, onboard voltage meter, 
> or on the charger?
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> 
> On Nov 11, 2016 4:20 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels like 
> it’s not — please let me know. 
> 
> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport and 
> it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a few 
> moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking the 
> house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery. 
> 
> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well into 
> 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off. 
> 
> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my mind, 
> defeats the purpose. 
> 
> Any thoughts? 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd
> 
> 
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY 
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger / ACR -- Some Details

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Sounds like a problem with the battery charger.

I would disable the ACR (disconnect the sensing wire if possible) and try
again.

Are you reading the voltage at the battery terminals, onboard voltage
meter, or on the charger?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Nov 11, 2016 4:20 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> OK — So here’s what happens. And this may be OK, but somehow it feels like
> it’s not — please let me know.
>
> I plug into shore power and turn on the battery charger. It’s a ProSport
> and it’s hooked up to the House Bank, a set of flooded batteries. Within a
> few moments, the voltage goes over 13 volts and the ACR kicks in, linking
> the house bank to the starting battery, a sealed starting battery.
>
> After a few hours, the voltage on both battery banks are reading well into
> 15-16V, which makes me worried and I shut it off.
>
> I could turn the ACR off when using the charger, but that really, in my
> mind, defeats the purpose.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

What!?
On Jun 24, 2016 9:02 AM, "Danny Haughey via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> OK,  it turns out the ground from the charger was attached to the positive
> battery terminal.  It's working great now!
> -- Original Message --
> From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
> To: "C&C List" 
> Cc: Josh Muckley 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm
> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 14:48:54 +
>
> For standard lead-acid batteryies ~10.5v is pretty much the
> definition of 0% charge and can seriously diminish the number of cycles
> remaining in the battery's life span.  That is if you can get it to
> accept a charge at all.  ~11.6v is about 50% and 12.7v is full charge
> 100%.  The deeper you discharge a battery the fewer cycles it has in
> it's life span.  Often times deep cycle batteries are rated for 200
> cycles down to 50% and back up.  Less deep of a discharge = more cycles.
> So you may have taken a few cycles off but they will likely remain
> functional for many more years.
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Jun 22, 2016 8:22 AM, "Danny Haughey via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:The batteries were new last July.  I charged
> them with my home charger separately a few weeks ago with no issue.  I had
> forgotten to turn the battery switches off and they dropped to about 11v.
> So, this time, I decided to get an adapter and use the shore power outlet
> to run the on board charger.  It's the first time I've tried it.  I
> am trying to top up 3 group 27s.
>
> I believe the batteries are fine.
>
> DannyOn Jun 22, 2016 12:42 AM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Pete,
> >
> > If the batteries are shot, don't they get warm with hard charging?
> Danny's original message says the batteries are not warm.
> >
> > Maybe he is deep cycling the battery bank.
> >
> > Cheers, Russ
> >
> >
> >
> > At 09:27 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
> >>
> >> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> >>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_01F9_01D1CC14.71395510"
> >> Content-Language: en-us
> >>
> >> Dan –
> >> This may be an indication that your batteries are shot.  The charger is
> working to give them a juice and they’re just not having it.   Take a look
> at them before you change your charger.But also look for loose
> connections.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
> Russ & Melody via CnC-List
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:10 PM
> >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> >> Cc: Russ & Melody
> >> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Danny,
> >>
> >> I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)
> >>
> >> Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 35 for this
> discussion... and at 15 volts we're looking at something near 500 watts
> to the batteries. If it's a 90 percent efficient battery charger then
> it has to dump 50 watts or so into the surroundings.
> >>
> >> For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how
> long you can hang on to it. Yow!
> >>
> >> A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very
> long, 180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your description, I
> suggest the battery charger is operating around 150 F if you can put
> pressure on it with your hand. That is not a worry if it's like that
> for a few hours. I am also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).
> >>
> >> Cheers, Russ
> >> Sweet 35 mk-1
> >>
> >>
> >> At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi guys,
> >> When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage pins
> all the way past 30 amps.
> >>
> >> It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very
> long.   The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over
> a couple hours.
> >>
> >> It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...
> >> ___
> >>
> >> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

That would be a dead short!
Joe
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & 
Melody via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 9:22 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Russ & Melody
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

At 06:00 AM 24/06/2016, you wrote:
>OK,  it turns out the ground from the charger was attached to the 
>positive battery terminal.  It's working great now!


How the heck did that happen?!


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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

At 06:00 AM 24/06/2016, you wrote:
OK,  it turns out the ground from the charger was attached to the 
positive battery terminal.  It's working great now!



How the heck did that happen?!


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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

OK,  it turns out the ground from the charger was attached to the positive 
battery terminal.  It's working great now! 
-- Original Message --
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
To: "C&C List" 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 14:48:54 +

For standard lead-acid batteryies ~10.5v is pretty much the 
definition of 0% charge and can seriously diminish the number of cycles 
remaining in the battery's life span.  That is if you can get it to accept 
a charge at all.  ~11.6v is about 50% and 12.7v is full charge 100%.  The 
deeper you discharge a battery the fewer cycles it has in it's life span.  
Often times deep cycle batteries are rated for 200 cycles down to 50% and back 
up.  Less deep of a discharge = more cycles.  So you may have taken a few 
cycles off but they will likely remain functional for many more years.
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Jun 22, 2016 8:22 AM, "Danny Haughey via CnC-List"  
wrote:The batteries were new last July.  I charged them with my home charger 
separately a few weeks ago with no issue.  I had forgotten to turn the battery 
switches off and they dropped to about 11v.  So, this time, I decided to get an 
adapter and use the shore power outlet to run the on board charger.  It's 
the first time I've tried it.  I am trying to top up 3 group 27s.

I believe the batteries are fine.

DannyOn Jun 22, 2016 12:42 AM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
 wrote:
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> If the batteries are shot, don't they get warm with hard charging? 
> Danny's original message says the batteries are not warm.
>
> Maybe he is deep cycling the battery bank.
>
> Cheers, Russ
>
>
>
> At 09:27 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_01F9_01D1CC14.71395510"
>> Content-Language: en-us
>>
>> Dan –
>> This may be an indication that your batteries are shot.  The charger is 
>> working to give them a juice and they’re just not having it.   Take a look 
>> at them before you change your charger.    But also look for loose 
>> connections.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & 
>> Melody via CnC-List
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:10 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Russ & Melody
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm
>>  
>>
>> Hi Danny,
>>
>> I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)
>>
>> Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 35 for this discussion... 
>> and at 15 volts we're looking at something near 500 watts to the 
>> batteries. If it's a 90 percent efficient battery charger then it has to 
>> dump 50 watts or so into the surroundings.
>>
>> For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how long 
>> you can hang on to it. Yow!
>>
>> A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very long, 
>> 180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your description, I suggest 
>> the battery charger is operating around 150 F if you can put pressure on it 
>> with your hand. That is not a worry if it's like that for a few hours. I 
>> am also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).
>>
>>     Cheers, Russ
>>     Sweet 35 mk-1
>>
>>
>> At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>> When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage pins all 
>> the way past 30 amps.
>>
>> It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very long. 
>>   The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over a 
>> couple hours.
>>
>> It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

For standard lead-acid batteryies ~10.5v is pretty much the definition of
0% charge and can seriously diminish the number of cycles remaining in the
battery's life span.  That is if you can get it to accept a charge at all.
~11.6v is about 50% and 12.7v is full charge 100%.  The deeper you
discharge a battery the fewer cycles it has in it's life span.  Often times
deep cycle batteries are rated for 200 cycles down to 50% and back up.
Less deep of a discharge = more cycles.  So you may have taken a few cycles
off but they will likely remain functional for many more years.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Jun 22, 2016 8:22 AM, "Danny Haughey via CnC-List" 
wrote:

The batteries were new last July.  I charged them with my home charger
separately a few weeks ago with no issue.  I had forgotten to turn the
battery switches off and they dropped to about 11v.  So, this time, I
decided to get an adapter and use the shore power outlet to run the on
board charger.  It's the first time I've tried it.  I am trying to top up 3
group 27s.

I believe the batteries are fine.

DannyOn Jun 22, 2016 12:42 AM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> If the batteries are shot, don't they get warm with hard charging?
Danny's original message says the batteries are not warm.
>
> Maybe he is deep cycling the battery bank.
>
> Cheers, Russ
>
>
>
> At 09:27 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_01F9_01D1CC14.71395510"
>> Content-Language: en-us
>>
>> Dan –
>> This may be an indication that your batteries are shot.  The charger is
working to give them a juice and they’re just not having it.   Take a look
at them before you change your charger.But also look for loose
connections.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ
& Melody via CnC-List
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:10 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Russ & Melody
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm
>>
>>
>> Hi Danny,
>>
>> I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)
>>
>> Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 35 for this discussion...
and at 15 volts we're looking at something near 500 watts to the batteries.
If it's a 90 percent efficient battery charger then it has to dump 50 watts
or so into the surroundings.
>>
>> For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how
long you can hang on to it. Yow!
>>
>> A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very
long, 180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your description, I
suggest the battery charger is operating around 150 F if you can put
pressure on it with your hand. That is not a worry if it's like that for a
few hours. I am also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).
>>
>> Cheers, Russ
>> Sweet 35 mk-1
>>
>>
>> At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>> When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage pins
all the way past 30 amps.
>>
>> It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very
long.   The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over
a couple hours.
>>
>> It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Danny,

If you have concerns with overnight running then leave it on for 8 
hours or so for a couple of times. If you can borrow a small amp 
charger, say 5 - 10A that you can leave on for a few days then great. 
With the bank all topped up, after that if you apply the large 
charger and get 30 amps then something is wrong and it will be time 
to look for stray current loss.


meter check to confirm the before battery voltages then large charger voltage

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 02:35 AM 22/06/2016, you wrote:
Russ, Thanks for the reply! So I'll let it run for a few more 
hours tonight.  I'd say your assessment is correct about temps.  I 
think the gauge pinning to the high side, along with the heat 
worried me.  The wires seemed fine, only slightly warm.  It is 
ambient cooling with fins on the unit.  I wanted to leave the thing 
plugged in overnight but didn't want to risk it.  Is there anything 
I should check with a meter? Danny
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

The batteries were new last July.  I charged them with my home charger 
separately a few weeks ago with no issue.  I had forgotten to turn the battery 
switches off and they dropped to about 11v.  So, this time, I decided to get an 
adapter and use the shore power outlet to run the on board charger.  It's the 
first time I've tried it.  I am trying to top up 3 group 27s.

I believe the batteries are fine.

DannyOn Jun 22, 2016 12:42 AM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
 wrote:
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> If the batteries are shot, don't they get warm with hard charging? Danny's 
> original message says the batteries are not warm.
>
> Maybe he is deep cycling the battery bank.
>
> Cheers, Russ
>
>
>
> At 09:27 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_01F9_01D1CC14.71395510"
>> Content-Language: en-us
>>
>> Dan – 
>> This may be an indication that your batteries are shot.  The charger is 
>> working to give them a juice and they’re just not having it.   Take a look 
>> at them before you change your charger.    But also look for loose 
>> connections.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & 
>> Melody via CnC-List
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:10 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Russ & Melody
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm
>>  
>>
>> Hi Danny,
>>
>> I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)
>>
>> Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 35 for this discussion... and 
>> at 15 volts we're looking at something near 500 watts to the batteries. If 
>> it's a 90 percent efficient battery charger then it has to dump 50 watts or 
>> so into the surroundings.
>>
>> For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how long 
>> you can hang on to it. Yow!
>>
>> A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very long, 
>> 180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your description, I suggest 
>> the battery charger is operating around 150 F if you can put pressure on it 
>> with your hand. That is not a worry if it's like that for a few hours. I am 
>> also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).
>>
>>     Cheers, Russ
>>     Sweet 35 mk-1
>>
>>
>> At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys, 
>> When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage pins all 
>> the way past 30 amps.
>>
>> It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very long. 
>>   The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over a 
>> couple hours. 
>>
>> It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...
>> ___
>>
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Russ,
Thanks for the reply!  
Yes if I don't reread my messages from the phone, auto correct does a great job 
of turning them into jibberish sometimes!

Fred Street, I've learned, is fluent in jibberish!  Lol

So I'll let it run for a few more hours tonight.  I'd say your assessment is 
correct about temps.  I think the gauge pinning to the high side, along with 
the heat worried me.  The wires seemed fine, only slightly warm.  It is ambient 
cooling with fins on the unit.  I wanted to leave the thing plugged in 
overnight but didn't want to risk it.  

Is there anything I should check with a meter?

DannyOn Jun 22, 2016 12:09 AM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List 
 wrote:
>
>
> Hi Danny,
>
> I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)
>
> Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 35 for this discussion... and 
> at 15 volts we're looking at something near 500 watts to the batteries. If 
> it's a 90 percent efficient battery charger then it has to dump 50 watts or 
> so into the surroundings.
>
> For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how long 
> you can hang on to it. Yow!
>
> A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very long, 
> 180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your description, I suggest 
> the battery charger is operating around 150 F if you can put pressure on it 
> with your hand. That is not a worry if it's like that for a few hours. I am 
> also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).
>
> Cheers, Russ
> Sweet 35 mk-1
>
>
> At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys, 
>> When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage pins all 
>> the way past 30 amps.
>>
>> It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very long. 
>>   The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over a 
>> couple hours. 
>>
>> It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...
>>
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Pete,

If the batteries are shot, don't they get warm 
with hard charging? Danny's original message says the batteries are not warm.


Maybe he is deep cycling the battery bank.

Cheers, Russ



At 09:27 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=_NextPart_000_01F9_01D1CC14.71395510"
Content-Language: en-us

Dan –
This may be an indication that your batteries 
are shot.  The charger is working to give them a 
juice and they’re just not having it.   Take a 
look at them before you change your 
charger.But also look for loose connections.





From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & Melody via CnC-List

Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Russ & Melody
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm


Hi Danny,

I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)

Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 
35 for this discussion... and at 15 volts we're 
looking at something near 500 watts to the 
batteries. If it's a 90 percent efficient 
battery charger then it has to dump 50 watts or so into the surroundings.


For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt 
light bulb and see how long you can hang on to it. Yow!


A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold 
your hand on for very long, 180 F is tolerable 
for less than a second. From your description, I 
suggest the battery charger is operating around 
150 F if you can put pressure on it with your 
hand. That is not a worry if it's like that for 
a few hours. I am also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:

Hi guys,
When I turn the battery charger on it greys very 
warm.   The Guage pins all the way past 30 amps.


It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold 
your hands on for very long.   The batteries are 
not warm and seem to have taken some charge over a couple hours.


It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...
___

This list is supported by the generous donations 
of our members. If you like what we do, please 
help us pay for our costs by donating. All 
Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Pete Shelquist via CnC-List]

Dan - 

This may be an indication that your batteries are shot.  The charger is
working to give them a juice and they're just not having it.   Take a look
at them before you change your charger.But also look for loose
connections.

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ &
Melody via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 11:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Russ & Melody
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

 


Hi Danny,

I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)

Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 35 for this discussion... and
at 15 volts we're looking at something near 500 watts to the batteries. If
it's a 90 percent efficient battery charger then it has to dump 50 watts or
so into the surroundings.

For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how long
you can hang on to it. Yow!

A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very long,
180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your description, I suggest
the battery charger is operating around 150 F if you can put pressure on it
with your hand. That is not a worry if it's like that for a few hours. I am
also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:



Hi guys, 
When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage pins all
the way past 30 amps.

It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for very long.
The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some charge over a couple
hours. 

It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger getting warm

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Danny,

I like how you find it goes grey, most of your fellows call it gray. :)

Anyhow, the meter pegs over 30 amps, let's say 35 for this 
discussion... and at 15 volts we're looking at something near 500 
watts to the batteries. If it's a 90 percent efficient battery 
charger then it has to dump 50 watts or so into the surroundings.


For perspective and giggles, turn on a 40 watt light bulb and see how 
long you can hang on to it. Yow!


A machine at 160 F, you can touch but not hold your hand on for very 
long, 180 F is tolerable for less than a second. From your 
description, I suggest the battery charger is operating around 150 F 
if you can put pressure on it with your hand. That is not a worry if 
it's like that for a few hours. I am also assuming ambient cooling (no fan).


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 05:20 PM 21/06/2016, you wrote:

Hi guys,
When I turn the battery charger on it greys very warm.   The Guage 
pins all the way past 30 amps.


It is not too hot to touch but too hour to hold your hands on for 
very long.   The batteries are not warm and seem to have taken some 
charge over a couple hours.


It's this normal?   I don't like that heat...

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Josh — you’re correct, thanks for the clarification.  The main negative bus 
needs to be on the “Load” side of the shunt, if you have one installed.  And 
Joel: the negative side of all DC systems in the boat should terminate at one 
point.  This should include batteries (or banks of them), the DC panel, the 
engine block, charging systems; and even the ground for the AC system (green 
wire only).

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:07 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
wrote:

> Edd, if you have a current shunt (which you do if you use your Link 2000) it 
> is normally on the ground wire.  You should make sure all you charging 
> sources go to the load side, not the battery side, of the shunt.

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Edd, if you have a current shunt (which you do if you use your Link 2000)
it is normally on the ground wire.  You should make sure all you charging
sources go to the load side, not the battery side, of the shunt.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Apr 30, 2015 11:56 AM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Joel,
>
> My goal is to charge the house bank (so I'd connect it to the house bank
> positive bus bar). My ground is common to all batteries so I wanted to make
> sure I'd still charge the house (the ACR will automatically charge the
> engine battery anyway).
>
> Love this list.
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Fred,
>
> If it goes to the bus bars won't it charge all batteries on the live
> circuit, not a single battery?
>
> Not sure if that is Edd's goal.
>
> Joel
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Edd -- the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the
>> main negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the
>> negative sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any
>> local ground point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be
>> sound; or it may not be adequately sized for the charger current.  The
>> positive should go to the house positive bar or straight to the battery,
>> through an appropriately-sized fuse or breaker.
>>
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>   Launching next Tuesday!   :^)
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Listers,
>>
>> For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to
>> run to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any
>> common ground on the boat?
>>
>> In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative
>> terminal on the battery?
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Edd
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
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>> bottom of page at:
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Joel,

My goal is to charge the house bank (so I’d connect it to the house bank 
positive bus bar). My ground is common to all batteries so I wanted to make 
sure I’d still charge the house (the ACR will automatically charge the engine 
battery anyway). 

Love this list. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 













> On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Fred,
> 
> If it goes to the bus bars won't it charge all batteries on the live circuit, 
> not a single battery?
> 
> Not sure if that is Edd's goal.
> 
> Joel
> 
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Hi, Edd — the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the main 
> negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the negative 
> sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any local ground 
> point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be sound; or it may 
> not be adequately sized for the charger current.  The positive should go to 
> the house positive bar or straight to the battery, through an 
> appropriately-sized fuse or breaker.
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(   
> Launching next Tuesday!   :^)
> 
> On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Listers,
>> 
>> For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to run 
>> to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any common 
>> ground on the boat? 
>> 
>> In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative 
>> terminal on the battery? 
>> 
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Edd
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Fred,

If it goes to the bus bars won't it charge all batteries on the live
circuit, not a single battery?

Not sure if that is Edd's goal.

Joel

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi, Edd — the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the
> main negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the
> negative sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any
> local ground point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be
> sound; or it may not be adequately sized for the charger current.  The
> positive should go to the house positive bar or straight to the battery,
> through an appropriately-sized fuse or breaker.
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
> Launching next Tuesday!   :^)
>
> On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to
> run to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any
> common ground on the boat?
>
> In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative
> terminal on the battery?
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Fred,

That’s what I thought. An installation manual threw me for a few. . . . 

Thanks for the clarification. 

Sheesh — more fuses… more fuses… 

I’m now going to call you Fred “The Fuse-Man” Street


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 













> On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Frederick G Street  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Edd — the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the main 
> negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the negative 
> sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any local ground 
> point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be sound; or it may 
> not be adequately sized for the charger current.  The positive should go to 
> the house positive bar or straight to the battery, through an 
> appropriately-sized fuse or breaker.
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(   
> Launching next Tuesday!   :^)
> 
> On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Listers,
>> 
>> For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to run 
>> to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any common 
>> ground on the boat? 
>> 
>> In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative 
>> terminal on the battery? 
>> 
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Edd
> 

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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger Question

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Hi, Edd — the negative side of the charger output can go straight to the main 
negative bus bar; this should have a large conductor straight to the negative 
sides of both the house and start banks.  DO NOT just grab any local ground 
point, as the connection from it to the battery may not be sound; or it may not 
be adequately sized for the charger current.  The positive should go to the 
house positive bar or straight to the battery, through an appropriately-sized 
fuse or breaker.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(   
Launching next Tuesday!   :^)

On Apr 30, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
wrote:

> Listers,
> 
> For a shore-powered battery charger, do the red and black wires need to run 
> to the battery or can the red run to the battery and the black to any common 
> ground on the boat? 
> 
> In other words, does the black need to connect directly to the negative 
> terminal on the battery? 
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger

[Patrick Wesley via CnC-List]

Josh, you are course correct. I was focusing more on the irrelevant wording in 
the manual. Patrick 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 27, 2014, at 3:43 PM, Josh Muckley  wrote:
> 
> Seems odd.  Hydrogen is produced at/in the batteries not the charger.  The 
> two could be (in my case are) separated by a significant distance.
> 
> I must have missed that in the instructions.  (Would have helped if I read 
> them.)  Mine is installed vertically with no problems.  Ventilation is not 
> horrible but could be better...still no problems.
> 
> Josh
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2014 6:19 PM, "Patrick Wesley"  wrote:
>> Helped by comments from the list I recently had a ProMariner installed. The 
>> installer placed it vertically and I thought nothing of this until I read 
>> the manual. On page 13 it clearly states "install horizontally". Spoke to 
>> their help line technician, he said only requirement is for plenty of air 
>> circulation to dissipate the hydrogen produced during charging. So why print 
>> the vertical requirement!?
>> 
>> Btw, seems to be working well. 
>> 
>> Patrick Wesley, The Boat. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 27, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Anybody know this boat?
>>> 
>>> We saw it on a recent trip to Uraguay.  It is US flagged and I think I 
>>> recall Delaware on the transom.
>>> 
>>> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yRXdscnhWQnlYSFk/edit?usp=docslist_api
>>> 
>>> Josh Muckley
>>> S/V Sea Hawk
>>> 1989 C&C 37+
>>> Solomons, MD
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> 
>>> Email address:
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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>>> page at:
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Seems odd.  Hydrogen is produced at/in the batteries not the charger.  The
two could be (in my case are) separated by a significant distance.

I must have missed that in the instructions.  (Would have helped if I read
them.)  Mine is installed vertically with no problems.  Ventilation is not
horrible but could be better...still no problems.

Josh
On Sep 27, 2014 6:19 PM, "Patrick Wesley"  wrote:

> Helped by comments from the list I recently had a ProMariner installed.
> The installer placed it vertically and I thought nothing of this until I
> read the manual. On page 13 it clearly states "install horizontally". Spoke
> to their help line technician, he said only requirement is for plenty of
> air circulation to dissipate the hydrogen produced during charging. So why
> print the vertical requirement!?
>
> Btw, seems to be working well.
>
> Patrick Wesley, The Boat.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 27, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Anybody know this boat?
>
> We saw it on a recent trip to Uraguay.  It is US flagged and I think I
> recall Delaware on the transom.
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yRXdscnhWQnlYSFk/edit?usp=docslist_api
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Choose the max charging amps as a percentage of the smallest battery bank
capacity.

Wet cell = 25%  (200amp-hour = 50amp charger)
Gell cell = 30%
AGM = 40%

Josh
 On Sep 27, 2014 1:21 PM, "Stephen Thorne via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
>
> Anyone have suggestions about which brand of battery charger I should look
> at?
>
> I am replacing a 23 yr old Freedom/Heart 50 amp charger/inverter.
>
> Will probably go to a 40 or 50 amp charger only and get a separate 1000
> watt inverter.
>
> Stephen Thorne
> C&C 34+
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

+1 on the ProNauticP

http://promariner.com/products/dry-mount-marine-battery-chargers/pronauticp-series/

I have been very happy with my 60amp 3 bank version.  It is buried in the
boat so I got the remote operating panel too.  I recommend it.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Sep 27, 2014 1:21 PM, "Stephen Thorne via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
>
> Anyone have suggestions about which brand of battery charger I should look
> at?
>
> I am replacing a 23 yr old Freedom/Heart 50 amp charger/inverter.
>
> Will probably go to a 40 or 50 amp charger only and get a separate 1000
> watt inverter.
>
> Stephen Thorne
> C&C 34+
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

I have been very happy with my ProMariner, although I think you'll be 
happy with any of these new solid state chargers.  You'll also get some 
waterline back.   Separating the charger and inverter is a great 
idea. I'm glad I wired the boat for that, even though I had a Heart 
Freedom at the time.


The Sterling charger is the exact same thing under a different brand and 
might be cheaper. 



If the integral echo charger in your Freedom still works, pull the case 
off and remove the echo charger.  It's on a little heat sink of its own, 
and comes out with four screws.  It's worth money or gift karma points, 
even if you don't need it yourself.


I kept my Link 2000-R monitor, and the shunts and everything.

I'd also recommend the remote control panel for the nav station. I 
didn't get it, because it's not available in Mexico, and because my 
charger's mounted under the nav station and it's no big deal to look 
down and see the front panel.  There might be more configuration options 
available with the remote panel -- don't know.  The only thing I don't 
like -- and it's really minor -- is that it gets fooled easily by house 
loads and thus doesn't drop into float mode when I think it should.  
That's just the way I use it, though, since I'll fire up the Honda 2000 
when on the hook, and when I do that I'll run the watermaker and defrost 
the freezer which makes the compressor run max RPM, and so on.  That 
makes the charger think that the batteries are still accepting 15 amps 
when actually they're full.  No big deal.


Wal

Stephen wrote:

Anyone have suggestions about which brand of battery charger I should look at?

I am replacing a 23 yr old Freedom/Heart 50 amp charger/inverter.

Will probably go to a 40 or 50 amp charger only and get a separate 1000 watt 
inverter.



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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List]

Thanks to everyone who responded with comments and advice re my battery
charger questions. Replies were very useful and I even understood most of
them! I now have a Plan. Patrick Wesley, The Boat C & C 24


On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 8:07 AM, Patrick H. Wesley 
wrote:

>
> Investigating availability of "smart" or three step charger to install in
> locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of
> boat, or portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says
> most car type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit
> but you then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which
> isn't practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is
> amps and only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.
>>
>>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC
>
>
> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>



-- 
Patrick H. Wesley
4068 Licorice Lane, Victoria BC Canada V8X 0A2
1 250 370 0547; mobile 1 250 380 8959
hickl...@telus.net
hickland.wes...@gmail.com
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I installed a pair of Noco Genius G3500 chargers this year.
The racing rules require spill proof batteries for new replacements,
currently I have one flooded and one AGM.

Advantages are:

IP65 water rating
light weight and easy to mount
useful status LEDs
automatic desulfation or deeply discharged recovery
nice leads supplied with inline fuse

http://www.geniuschargers.com/G3500

The 3.5 amp unit was acceptable for me. Other models include
7.2 and 26 amp units. Note that some battery specs include a
minimum charging current for best life expectancy.


I have noticed that some dual bank chargers appear to have a
common internal power supply. So if one bank of batteries become
defective and hold the voltage low the other bank does not get
charged. At least one charger I worked with went to a bulk
charge voltage for a while. That was good for the larger house
bank which was discharged, but the smaller starter battery
was being overcharged all the time and boiled dry.

If you have a larger house battery that does get discharged and
a smaller starter battery that is normally near full charge installing
two chargers should be considered.

Also I got the G3500 new with warranty from eBay for under $40 each 


Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1




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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ProMariner-ProTech-12vt-20-Amp-3-BANK-Boat-Marine-Battery-Charger-Maintainer-/151186903725?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item23337112ad

This model would be more than enough.
I also have a 20 watt solar panel with a Morningstar PWN controller that do 
well when I am off shorepower or don't feel like stringing the cord up.

Joe Della Barba  Coquina
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Almost forgot.  Consider your battery bank AHr capacity.  The max charger
current should be limited to about 25% of the smallest bank capacity.  A
20amp charger would be a good fit for an 80AHr battery.  This assumes a
flooded lead acid.  30% for gel and 40% for AGM.

You mentioned using a hygrometer but this is only for flooded batteries.
Despite being "able" to sometimes get the caps off of "maintenance free"
batteries you stand a good chance of messing things up more than fixing.
So that leaves the decreasingly available maintenance style batteries with
individual caps for each cell.

Josh Muckley
On Aug 7, 2014 8:51 PM, "Josh Muckley"  wrote:

> Oh yeah, +1 on the ProMariner.
>
> The PO replaced an old xantrex with a new one which died on him within a
> year.  I clamed the warranty on it after closing on the boat but was
> disappointed when the new one died within a week.  Warranty refunded and I
> switched to a ProMariner and haven't heard a peep from it in 2.5 years.
>
> Josh Muckley
> On Aug 7, 2014 11:07 AM, "Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Investigating availability of "smart" or three step charger to install in
>> locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of
>> boat, or portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says
>> most car type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit
>> but you then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which
>> isn't practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is
>> amps and only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Oh yeah, +1 on the ProMariner.

The PO replaced an old xantrex with a new one which died on him within a
year.  I clamed the warranty on it after closing on the boat but was
disappointed when the new one died within a week.  Warranty refunded and I
switched to a ProMariner and haven't heard a peep from it in 2.5 years.

Josh Muckley
On Aug 7, 2014 11:07 AM, "Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Investigating availability of "smart" or three step charger to install in
> locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of
> boat, or portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says
> most car type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit
> but you then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which
> isn't practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is
> amps and only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.
>>
>>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC
>
>
> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

What about solar?  A lot of problems and liabilities come from being
attached to shore.  You're just keeping the batteries topped up for the
next adventure right?

Every smart charger i have ever seen, (auto, marine, clamp on, or
permanent) works as follows:

First: It performs idiot checks to make sure the battery is not bad or
terminals reversed.
Stage 1: (Bulk charge, ~80% of full capacity) Start at max rated current
and slowly ramp up voltage until max rated voltage is reached
Stage 2: (acceptance charge, remaining ~20% of full charge) Once the max
rated charge voltage of your type of battery is reached (14.7v for a
standard wet lead-acid battery) then the current is slowly ramped down
while simultaneously keeping the voltage at 14.7v .
Stage 3: When the charge current has reduced to the float curent 1-2 amps
for a predetermined amount of time (1-5 minutes) the charger switches to a
float mode where the voltage is reduced to the appropriate float voltage
(~13.2v for a standard lead-acid) and the minimum current is applied
(~1-2amp).  During this stage different chargers may periodically shift on
or off or test the acceptance by switching to the 14.7v and "checking" how
long it takes to return to the minimum current.

The better chargers tend to have battery type seletors and may have a
little different time delays or charge programs for each battery type.
Many permanent installs have more than one set of charge terminals for more
than one bank (the current is still limited to the max rating of the
charger).  With more features the price goes up.

I presume that you are considering chargers for equalizing and
"preventative maintenance".  Any 3 stage "smart" auto charger could be used
as a equalizing charger.  I have a 40amp Stanley that is similar to Vector
and Schumacher.  $100 bucks at Lowes AND it has an alternator checker and
"start" booster too.

I wouldn't necessarily leave it unattended but while you're tinkering about
at the dock 3 or 4 (or more) times a season would be fine.  They make 10
and 20 amp versions also.  They are just temporary and clamp on.  Mine did
great as a backup when my brand new 40amp xantrex ($400) died on the
delivery trip.

Best part is when you are done you can get the weight and clutter off the
boat and use it at home.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 7, 2014 11:07 AM, "Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Investigating availability of "smart" or three step charger to install in
> locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of
> boat, or portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says
> most car type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit
> but you then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which
> isn't practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is
> amps and only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.
>>
>>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC
>
>
> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>
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>
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

I put a ProMariner on Stella Blue last year, and am very pleased with 
it. The one Rich suggests would be good for a 24 with one or two 
batteries.  Note the dimensions: 9x5x2 inches.  That's pretty small.  
Auto shut off isn't really necessary with a good three stage charger, as 
float mode will hold the batteries at maintenance voltage.  Mine's a bit 
bigger with a few fancy features, but my needs are different.


Wal

Rich wrote:

Try this:
http://ca.binnacle.com/mobile/product_info.php?products_id=10001

Rich



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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

http://stores.ebay.com/The-ChargerGuy?_rdc=1

Good deals  on chargers. No financial interest at all - but I did buy something 
from here with no problems.

Joe Della Barba   Coquina
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Patrick — I’d stay away from non-marine battery chargers in the marine 
environment; for both safety and longevity/reliability reasons.

Something like this would probably work fine for your size boat:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|2289962|2289963&id=1512352

You could upsize to 20 amps, but that may be overkill.  Do you already have a 
shorepower system?

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

On Aug 7, 2014, at 10:07 AM, Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List 
 wrote:

> 
> Investigating availability of "smart" or three step charger to install in 
> locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of boat, or 
> portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says most car 
> type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit but you 
> then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which isn't 
> practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is amps and 
> only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger on 24

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

Try this:
http://ca.binnacle.com/mobile/product_info.php?products_id=10001

Rich

Rich Knowles
IFDS 2014 Worlds
Support Chair

> On Aug 7, 2014, at 12:07, "Patrick H. Wesley via CnC-List" 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Investigating availability of "smart" or three step charger to install in 
> locker next to batteries, obviously concern is size for this type of boat, or 
> portable one. Must have auto shut-off. Any ideas? Battery guy says most car 
> type chargers only measure volts and shut off when reach the limit but you 
> then need to put it on manual and charge another four hours, which isn't 
> practical given distance house/boat. Also that real importance is amps and 
> only way to measure that is using a battery acid hygrometer.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Patrick Wesley, Sidney BC
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Marek Dziedzic]

If/when you install solar, make sure that you don't skimp on the charge
controller. It will make or break the entire project. When you look at it, a
good controller might be around half of the cost of the system. Read up on
various types of solar controllers. A good source is Main Sail's musings on
Sailboat Owner's forum or his own web site
(http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/solar_panel).

Marek 
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger (was Battery charger recommendations?)

[Peter]

Hi Rick,

Would $300 US work for you?


Peter

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass
Sent: December-18-13 9:07 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery Charger (was Battery charger recommendations?)

Peter;

I'm planning a rewiring of my AC system before long, and that might include 
updating my old Xantrex 40  amp charger. Let me know off list how much you want 
for the ProMariner charger?

Rick Brass

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 5:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Battery Charger (was Battery charger recommendations?)

ProMariner sent me a replacement battery charger a short while back - ProNautic 
12250c3. Turns out I don't need it. Still in the delivery box, never opened. 
Looking for a good home at a decent price:

http://www.remybattery.com/ProMariner-ProNautic-1250-C3-Battery-Charger-P339
7.aspx

Any interest?



Peter
SV Outrider


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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Stevan Plavsa]

If all you want is to keep your batteries topped off in the short term have
a look at solar. I outfitted my boat with an 80watt panel mounted above the
bimini for about $350. $100 of that was for SS fittings. Solar is perfect
for the "top off" 3rd stage of charging. If you're going cruising solar is
something you'll be able to use then too. I'm on a mooring so no shore
power. I sail on weekends with a few cruises in the summer and the solar
has worked out great so far.

Best advise so far is to invest in Nigel Calder's book .. I have his and
Don Casey's books and for me, they're both great. I love this mailing list
and I think the people here are super helpful and knowledgeable but there's
nothing that you'll learn here about electrical systems on boats that you
won't learn from either of those guys' books ... plus their books are full
of all sorts of valuable information on all the boat systems you're likely
going to have to replace, install or maintain prior to, and during that
cruise. A good investment.

Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto


On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 1:51 PM, dwight  wrote:

> I have a quiet 2000 Honda generator...it's not that small
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Wally
> Bryant
> Sent: December 18, 2013 2:27 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
>
> Yeah, I have to admit I didn't get my power consumption estimates
> right.  It worked out okay when I had high capacity Trojans on board,
> but these Mexican golf cart batteries have about half the capacity,
> which means a daily recharging regimen.  And, of course, it doesn't help
> that I discovered that my 12V TV can play .avi movies on a flash drive!
> I just spent a week on the hook watching 'Breaking Bad' Season 1 through
> 5 non-stop.  Doing stuff like that wasn't part of the initial power budget.
>
> Thank goodness for my little quiet Honda 2000 watt generator. (smile)
>
> Wal
>
> Curtis wrote:
> > Wow. You guys have gone deep with the power consumption and recharging
> > principles. You have open my eyes to a big project moving forward. Keep
> in
> > mind my wife and I will not need much power. Bet you have heard that
> before
> > from people starting out. HAHAh.
>
>
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> No virus found in this message.
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Re: Stus-List battery charger sale

[Joel Aronson]

Nice !

On Thursday, December 19, 2013, Della Barba, Joe wrote:

>
> http://stores.ebay.com/The-ChargerGuy/Marine-Chargers-12vt-Dry-Mount-/_i.html?_fsub=2458863012&_sid=290185052&_sop=2&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14
>
>
>
> I have no relationship to this guy except I got a charger for someone from
> him and it worked fine. The prices are good right now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba Coquina*
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Battery Charger (was Battery charger recommendations?)

[Rick Brass]

Peter;

I'm planning a rewiring of my AC system before long, and that might include
updating my old Xantrex 40  amp charger. Let me know off list how much you
want for the ProMariner charger?

Rick Brass

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 5:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Battery Charger (was Battery charger recommendations?)

ProMariner sent me a replacement battery charger a short while back -
ProNautic 12250c3. Turns out I don't need it. Still in the delivery box,
never opened. Looking for a good home at a decent price:

http://www.remybattery.com/ProMariner-ProNautic-1250-C3-Battery-Charger-P339
7.aspx

Any interest?



Peter
SV Outrider


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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[dwight]

I have a quiet 2000 Honda generator...it's not that small

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Wally
Bryant
Sent: December 18, 2013 2:27 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

Yeah, I have to admit I didn't get my power consumption estimates 
right.  It worked out okay when I had high capacity Trojans on board, 
but these Mexican golf cart batteries have about half the capacity, 
which means a daily recharging regimen.  And, of course, it doesn't help 
that I discovered that my 12V TV can play .avi movies on a flash drive! 
I just spent a week on the hook watching 'Breaking Bad' Season 1 through 
5 non-stop.  Doing stuff like that wasn't part of the initial power budget.

Thank goodness for my little quiet Honda 2000 watt generator. (smile)

Wal

Curtis wrote:
> Wow. You guys have gone deep with the power consumption and recharging
> principles. You have open my eyes to a big project moving forward. Keep in
> mind my wife and I will not need much power. Bet you have heard that
before
> from people starting out. HAHAh.


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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations? comment aboutalternators

[dwight]

Yes, that surprised me too, I think that was back in June and I don't
remember the daytime temps but nights can be chilly around here in June,
probably was cold and rainy for a few days, otherwise I would have been down
on the boat and turned things off sooner. I like spending sunny afternoon
time on the mooring, I am on the water and not much work involved.my dog is
OK to spend a few hours there, while I putter around, cleaning, fixing,
polishing, listening to the stereo (country) and relaxing with a cigar and a
drink or two before suppertime.might sound boring but it's a pretty good
life.then he gets restless and wants off so we go ashore for supper, much
less trouble than supper on the boat.the ice box was almost empty except for
a few beverages.and you are correct, we don't live aboard much anymore,
that's a long story that has a lot to do with that same little dog.maybe
soon we become land cruisers, those small mobile homes are starting to look
attractive and sometimes you run into a lot more company and good parties at
parks than you do anchored off in a sailboat, but I will probably always
have a boat moored down back. 

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Brass
Sent: December 18, 2013 11:23 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations? comment
aboutalternators

 

Dwight;

 

Rich and I were addressing the power systems for a boat used for long term
live aboard cruising. IIRC you are on a dock and use your boat for daysails
and the occasional weekend or vacation cruise. For than situation, the OEM
alternator is just fine.

 

Starting your engine draws somewhere around 200 amps for something around 30
seconds. That is less than 2 AH reduction in capacity. Add a 2 to 3%
reduction for self discharge over a month at the dock. Call it another 4 AH
on a typical  group 24 battery. So you need to put around 6 AH back into
your start battery while the engine runs, and the battery is probably at
around 95% charge when you start out, so there is high resistance to
charging and reduced acceptance rate. You probably need to run the engine
for 20 or 30 minutes to recharge the start battery.

 

All your boat systems except the bilge pump are turned off when at the dock,
except when you are on vacation. So you only have to replace the loss from
self discharge in your house bank. Two golf cart batteries is probably
around 275 AH capacity, times 3% per month, is around 8-9 AH. Your OEM
alternator is probably able to accomplish that while you motor out and raise
the sails.

 

I'm sort of surprised that the house bank was able to run your refrigeration
for 5 days. Most refrigeration systems seem to use 45 or more AH in a 24
hour period. But then, you are in the great white north so maybe the lower
average temperature differential reduces the cooling load and thus the
current draw.

 

Rick

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:39 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

Hi Rich

 

I am not sure what my alternator output rating is but my ammeter never shows
more than 60 and even that is not for long as it settles out to between 15
and 30 fairly quickly, like after a a minute of steaming.  If I switch from
one battery bank to the other during steaming I can sometimes notice a
slight drag on the engine (it seems to slow down a bit) but even that is
momentary (a second or 2).  My house bank is two, 6 volt deep cycle
batteries connected in series and my start bank is one Group 24 deep
cycle.they have been on the boat for 7 years continuous and have never let
me down.  I run an old 1720 Furuno radar when I need it (fog or dark) and I
run an Adler Barber in icebox refrigerator freezer.  I try to remember to
manually cycle the fridge on and off since I disconnected the thermostat and
now can't remember which wires go where to reconnect it.Last season I left
the boat unattended on the mooring for about 5 days but I forgot to turn off
the fridge.  Much to my surprise after those 5 days there was still power
left in the battery and the fridge was still cold and I have no added
insulation around the ice box yet!!  I was able to start the engine from my
start battery and recharge my house bank from the engine. Probably some
sailors use more power on a regular basis than I do but 100 amps seems like
a pretty high charge rate.  Would a 100 amp charge rate not be hard on the
cells?

 

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Knowles
Sent: December 18, 2013 8:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

And to increase the presumptuous factor:

 

The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small
boat engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single
vol

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Wally Bryant]

Yeah, I have to admit I didn't get my power consumption estimates 
right.  It worked out okay when I had high capacity Trojans on board, 
but these Mexican golf cart batteries have about half the capacity, 
which means a daily recharging regimen.  And, of course, it doesn't help 
that I discovered that my 12V TV can play .avi movies on a flash drive! 
I just spent a week on the hook watching 'Breaking Bad' Season 1 through 
5 non-stop.  Doing stuff like that wasn't part of the initial power budget.


Thank goodness for my little quiet Honda 2000 watt generator. (smile)

Wal

Curtis wrote:

Wow. You guys have gone deep with the power consumption and recharging
principles. You have open my eyes to a big project moving forward. Keep in
mind my wife and I will not need much power. Bet you have heard that before
from people starting out. HAHAh.



___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Curtis]

I forgot I do have pressurized fresh water. But its not heated. An what I
was fingering out is that C&C 30MK1 will be o.k for the first summer? and
she the Admiral will want to move up to a bigger more equipped boat for
extended cruising. This would be a great boat to learn on and then move to
a  36' / 42' when I have her sold on the life aboard. She will be
begging for the luxuries you speak of. hot water a/c refrigeration ect...


On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Frederick G Street wrote:

> I asked them about that when we had them to dinner several years back.
>  Really.  They were in Minneapolis for a seminar I helped organize.  Great
> people.
>
> They still use oil-based nav and anchor lights.  Larry’s pretty adamant
> about being a “purist” on his hand-built wooden boats.  They also still use
> a scull to get in and out of anchorages, as their boats haven’t had engines.
>
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Rick Brass  wrote:
>
> I bet it even happens to Lynn and Larry Pardey.
>
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
“Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline,
should really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Frederick G Street]

I asked them about that when we had them to dinner several years back.  Really. 
 They were in Minneapolis for a seminar I helped organize.  Great people.

They still use oil-based nav and anchor lights.  Larry’s pretty adamant about 
being a “purist” on his hand-built wooden boats.  They also still use a scull 
to get in and out of anchorages, as their boats haven’t had engines.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Dec 18, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Rick Brass  wrote:

> I bet it even happens to Lynn and Larry Pardey.

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Rick Brass]

It's true that the space available for batteries is different, and adding
more capacity will be more difficult for Curtis. (And even on the 38, the
locker under my quarter berth was big enough for all 5 batteries in my 2
banks - though not deep enough for the GC5 batteries I had wanted to install
- but I had to modify the access in order to use all the space in the
locker.)

 

But the requirement for capacity will be driven by use and systems, not the
size of the boat. If cruising full time, Curtis's Admiral will want
refrigeration (instead of eating only canned food. She will want to take a
shower, so a water heater and a pressure water system. His first attempt to
navigate at night in a fog will make him want radar. Playing with the big
boats in the Gulf Stream off the Florida Coast will make him want AIS.

 

It's pernicious. The power requirement just keeps growing and growing. I bet
it even happens to Lynn and Larry Pardey.

 

Rick

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Nylander
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:56 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

Rick, I seem to remember that Curtis has a 30. He couldn't have near the
needs you do on your 38 or he would be all batteries in that smaller boat.

 

Gary

- Original Message - 

From: Rick Brass <mailto:rickbr...@earthlink.net>  

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:45 PM

Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

Curtis;

 

At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the
horse.

 

If your intent is extended cruising - particularly offshore cruising where
you will not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the batteries)
every day - you will first need to think about the systems you have on board
and how much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major draw. Radar?
Autopilot? What instruments? What lights? Power for entertainment like radio
or TV?  Small things like a 12 v electric coffee maker or a microwave draw a
shocking amount of power out of your batteries.

 

Once you know how many amp hours you will use on average, you can figure out
how many additional batteries you need, what type, and where to put them. My
average consumption right now is under 100 amp-hours/day. But I plan to run
refrigeration (45 more AH) and to anchor out for extended periods. So my
house bank is 4 deep cycle group 27 batteries with 460 AH capacity. That
gives 230 usable AH (50% discharge) and should let me go for 2 days between
charges. In addition I have a group 29 marine starting battery as a second
bank, and a deep cycle group 24 under the v-berth to power the head and the
anchor windlass.

 

The 400+ AH house bank dictates at least a 40amp, multi bank charger. I have
an older Xantrex 40+ wired to the house and starting bank. There is a solar
charger for the group 24 battery that is OK for now, but I plan to install
an ACR that will top up the charge on that battery when I'm hooked to shore
power or running the engine.

 

To put 100 AH into my house bank by running the engine (with a 45 amp
alternator installed) will take at least 3 hours of run time - which is OK
when I'm traveling on the ICW but not acceptable when at anchor. SO I plan
to install a bank of solar panels over the Bimini, and maybe a wind
generator as well, to maintain the batteries at anchor.

 

As you can see, the process starts with determining how much power you will
be using each day, and that will depend on what systems you have installed
for cruising.

 

You said you had an "OEM" battery charger installed. Probably not really
OEM, but the question is: is it still working? If it is, spend your money on
the other systems you will be installing, and the additional batteries, and
worry about a new (probably more efficient) charger in 2017 or so.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Curtis
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:16 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

I picked up the one noted above to maintain the battery's. In my first post
I was trying to explain I needed something to keep the batt's charged while
sailing ever couple of weeks. "For Now" In  2018 We hope to shove off for
some extended cruising. 

I will need to install a Good expensive on board fixed mount bank charger.
This is what I was hoping to get advice on. the Good one that will give me a
charge on all my batt's when I come in from off shore. 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Josh Muckley  wrote:

Evidently, we all misunderstood the question.  The battery minder is
advertised to provide a "de-sufating" pulse charge to prevent loss of
capacity.  This is fine and may or may not add value for your p

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations? comment about alternators

[Rick Brass]

I think it likely that, when attached to shore power, your permanently
installed battery charger is maintaining the batteries as the shore power is
providing power to any AC outlets you have. That's one of the reasons that
you need a battery charger with a "float" charge rate. Charging the
batteries with 14+ volts full time (as the old fero-resonant chargers did)
or until the internal resistance was high enough to shut off the charger (as
a semi-old charger might do) will boil away the water in the batteries and
kill a set of batteries very quickly.

 

The 1.5 amp "trickle charger" you bought is probably delivering a tenth of
an amp or so at around 13v to maintain your batteries when in "Float" mode.
That sort of charger is good when you are day sailing and leave the boat
plugged in to shore power for long periods, but it will literally take days
to recharge a significantly discharged batter at just 1/5 amps max current.

 

You can verify that the shore power is powering your DC systems pretty
easily. Plug into shore power and turn off your DC systems.. Measure the
voltage across the terminals of your house bank with a voltmeter. If you see
13v or more, the battery charger is powering your DC system (up to the
maximum current that the 1.5 amp or the "OEM" charger can supply). If it is
12.5v or less, then it is not.

 

Rick Brass

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Curtis
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:33 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations? comment about
alternators

 

So here's a dumb question?

If I'm on shore power is just my battery charger and the DC outlets using
shore power or can I run the cabin lights and radio on the DC system? and if
so how?

 

 

On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Rick Brass 
wrote:

Dwight;

 

Rich and I were addressing the power systems for a boat used for long term
live aboard cruising. IIRC you are on a dock and use your boat for daysails
and the occasional weekend or vacation cruise. For than situation, the OEM
alternator is just fine.

 

Starting your engine draws somewhere around 200 amps for something around 30
seconds. That is less than 2 AH reduction in capacity. Add a 2 to 3%
reduction for self discharge over a month at the dock. Call it another 4 AH
on a typical  group 24 battery. So you need to put around 6 AH back into
your start battery while the engine runs, and the battery is probably at
around 95% charge when you start out, so there is high resistance to
charging and reduced acceptance rate. You probably need to run the engine
for 20 or 30 minutes to recharge the start battery.

 

All your boat systems except the bilge pump are turned off when at the dock,
except when you are on vacation. So you only have to replace the loss from
self discharge in your house bank. Two golf cart batteries is probably
around 275 AH capacity, times 3% per month, is around 8-9 AH. Your OEM
alternator is probably able to accomplish that while you motor out and raise
the sails.

 

I'm sort of surprised that the house bank was able to run your refrigeration
for 5 days. Most refrigeration systems seem to use 45 or more AH in a 24
hour period. But then, you are in the great white north so maybe the lower
average temperature differential reduces the cooling load and thus the
current draw.

 

Rick

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:39 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

Hi Rich

 

I am not sure what my alternator output rating is but my ammeter never shows
more than 60 and even that is not for long as it settles out to between 15
and 30 fairly quickly, like after a a minute of steaming.  If I switch from
one battery bank to the other during steaming I can sometimes notice a
slight drag on the engine (it seems to slow down a bit) but even that is
momentary (a second or 2).  My house bank is two, 6 volt deep cycle
batteries connected in series and my start bank is one Group 24 deep
cycle.they have been on the boat for 7 years continuous and have never let
me down.  I run an old 1720 Furuno radar when I need it (fog or dark) and I
run an Adler Barber in icebox refrigerator freezer.  I try to remember to
manually cycle the fridge on and off since I disconnected the thermostat and
now can't remember which wires go where to reconnect it.Last season I left
the boat unattended on the mooring for about 5 days but I forgot to turn off
the fridge.  Much to my surprise after those 5 days there was still power
left in the battery and the fridge was still cold and I have no added
insulation around the ice box yet!!  I was able to start the engine from my
start battery and recharge my house bank from the engine. Probably some
sailors use more power on a regular basis than I do but 100 amps seems like
a pre

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations? comment about alternators

[Rich Knowles]

If your boat is wired correctly, the battery charger feeds the battery and all 
your DC loads will function exactly as normal. 

I suggest you, and anyone else who doesn't have one,  purchase a copy of Nigel 
Calder's Boat Owners Mechanical and Electrical Manual. An excellent all round 
resource. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006QA720O

Rich

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 11:33, Curtis  wrote:
> 
> So here's a dumb question?
> If I'm on shore power is just my battery charger and the DC outlets using 
> shore power or can I run the cabin lights and radio on the DC system? and if 
> so how?
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Rick Brass  wrote:
>> Dwight;
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Rich and I were addressing the power systems for a boat used for long term 
>> live aboard cruising. IIRC you are on a dock and use your boat for daysails 
>> and the occasional weekend or vacation cruise. For than situation, the OEM 
>> alternator is just fine.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Starting your engine draws somewhere around 200 amps for something around 30 
>> seconds. That is less than 2 AH reduction in capacity. Add a 2 to 3% 
>> reduction for self discharge over a month at the dock. Call it another 4 AH 
>> on a typical  group 24 battery. So you need to put around 6 AH back into 
>> your start battery while the engine runs, and the battery is probably at 
>> around 95% charge when you start out, so there is high resistance to 
>> charging and reduced acceptance rate. You probably need to run the engine 
>> for 20 or 30 minutes to recharge the start battery.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> All your boat systems except the bilge pump are turned off when at the dock, 
>> except when you are on vacation. So you only have to replace the loss from 
>> self discharge in your house bank. Two golf cart batteries is probably 
>> around 275 AH capacity, times 3% per month, is around 8-9 AH. Your OEM 
>> alternator is probably able to accomplish that while you motor out and raise 
>> the sails.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I’m sort of surprised that the house bank was able to run your refrigeration 
>> for 5 days. Most refrigeration systems seem to use 45 or more AH in a 24 
>> hour period. But then, you are in the great white north so maybe the lower 
>> average temperature differential reduces the cooling load and thus the 
>> current draw.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:39 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hi Rich
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I am not sure what my alternator output rating is but my ammeter never shows 
>> more than 60 and even that is not for long as it settles out to between 15 
>> and 30 fairly quickly, like after a a minute of steaming.  If I switch from 
>> one battery bank to the other during steaming I can sometimes notice a 
>> slight drag on the engine (it seems to slow down a bit) but even that is 
>> momentary (a second or 2).  My house bank is two, 6 volt deep cycle 
>> batteries connected in series and my start bank is one Group 24 deep 
>> cycle…they have been on the boat for 7 years continuous and have never let 
>> me down.  I run an old 1720 Furuno radar when I need it (fog or dark) and I 
>> run an Adler Barber in icebox refrigerator freezer.  I try to remember to 
>> manually cycle the fridge on and off since I disconnected the thermostat and 
>> now can’t remember which wires go where to reconnect it…Last season I left 
>> the boat unattended on the mooring for about 5 days but I forgot to turn off 
>> the fridge.  Much to my surprise after those 5 days there was still power 
>> left in the battery and the fridge was still cold and I have no added 
>> insulation around the ice box yet!!  I was able to start the engine from my 
>> start battery and recharge my house bank from the engine. Probably some 
>> sailors use more power on a regular basis than I do but 100 amps seems like 
>> a pretty high charge rate.  Would a 100 amp charge rate not be hard on the 
>> cells?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich 
>> Knowles
>> Sent: December 18, 2013 8:38 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> And to increase the presumptuous factor:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Curtis]

Yea My boat is small. No A/C no Refg / freezer no microwave. Ni Invert-er.
Just basic stuff.


On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Gary Nylander wrote:

>  Rick, I seem to remember that Curtis has a 30. He couldn't have near the
> needs you do on your 38 or he would be all batteries in that smaller boat.
>
> Gary
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Rick Brass 
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:45 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
>
>  Curtis;
>
>
>
> At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the
> horse.
>
>
>
> If your intent is extended cruising – particularly offshore cruising where
> you will not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the batteries)
> every day – you will first need to think about the systems you have on
> board and how much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major draw.
> Radar? Autopilot? What instruments? What lights? Power for entertainment
> like radio or TV?  Small things like a 12 v electric coffee maker or a
> microwave draw a shocking amount of power out of your batteries.
>
>
>
> Once you know how many amp hours you will use on average, you can figure
> out how many additional batteries you need, what type, and where to put
> them. My average consumption right now is under 100 amp-hours/day. But I
> plan to run refrigeration (45 more AH) and to anchor out for extended
> periods. So my house bank is 4 deep cycle group 27 batteries with 460 AH
> capacity. That gives 230 usable AH (50% discharge) and should let me go for
> 2 days between charges. In addition I have a group 29 marine starting
> battery as a second bank, and a deep cycle group 24 under the v-berth to
> power the head and the anchor windlass.
>
>
>
> The 400+ AH house bank dictates at least a 40amp, multi bank charger. I
> have an older Xantrex 40+ wired to the house and starting bank. There is a
> solar charger for the group 24 battery that is OK for now, but I plan to
> install an ACR that will top up the charge on that battery when I’m hooked
> to shore power or running the engine.
>
>
>
> To put 100 AH into my house bank by running the engine (with a 45 amp
> alternator installed) will take at least 3 hours of run time – which is OK
> when I’m traveling on the ICW but not acceptable when at anchor. SO I plan
> to install a bank of solar panels over the Bimini, and maybe a wind
> generator as well, to maintain the batteries at anchor.
>
>
>
> As you can see, the process starts with determining how much power you
> will be using each day, and that will depend on what systems you have
> installed for cruising.
>
>
>
> You said you had an “OEM” battery charger installed. Probably not really
> OEM, but the question is: is it still working? If it is, spend your money
> on the other systems you will be installing, and the additional batteries,
> and worry about a new (probably more efficient) charger in 2017 or so.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *
> Curtis
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:16 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
>
>
>
> I picked up the one noted above to maintain the battery's. In my first
> post I was trying to explain I needed something to keep the batt's charged
> while sailing ever couple of weeks. "For Now" In  2018 We hope to shove off
> for some extended cruising.
>
> I will need to install a Good expensive on board fixed mount bank charger.
> This is what I was hoping to get advice on. the Good one that will give me
> a charge on all my batt's when I come in from off shore.
>
> Sorry for the confusion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Josh Muckley  wrote:
>
> Evidently, we all misunderstood the question.  The battery minder is
> advertised to provide a "de-sufating" pulse charge to prevent loss of
> capacity.  This is fine and may or may not add value for your purpose.  Had
> any of us realized that you simply wanted to keep the batteries from self
> discharging during winter storage you would have received drastically
> different answers.
>
> For ultra cheap $20 you can find 2amp smart chargers that cycle to prevent
> over charging.  If conditioning or de-sufating was the goal then I would
> have possibly recommended a higher power portable unit with a conditioning
> feature.  10-40amps, 3 stage, and conditioning mode, $50-100.  Stanley,
> Schumacher, Vector all have similar units available at the big bo

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Gary Nylander]

Rick, I seem to remember that Curtis has a 30. He couldn't have near the needs 
you do on your 38 or he would be all batteries in that smaller boat.

Gary
  - Original Message - 
  From: Rick Brass 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:45 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?


  Curtis;

   

  At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the horse.

   

  If your intent is extended cruising - particularly offshore cruising where 
you will not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the batteries) 
every day - you will first need to think about the systems you have on board 
and how much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major draw. Radar? 
Autopilot? What instruments? What lights? Power for entertainment like radio or 
TV?  Small things like a 12 v electric coffee maker or a microwave draw a 
shocking amount of power out of your batteries.

   

  Once you know how many amp hours you will use on average, you can figure out 
how many additional batteries you need, what type, and where to put them. My 
average consumption right now is under 100 amp-hours/day. But I plan to run 
refrigeration (45 more AH) and to anchor out for extended periods. So my house 
bank is 4 deep cycle group 27 batteries with 460 AH capacity. That gives 230 
usable AH (50% discharge) and should let me go for 2 days between charges. In 
addition I have a group 29 marine starting battery as a second bank, and a deep 
cycle group 24 under the v-berth to power the head and the anchor windlass.

   

  The 400+ AH house bank dictates at least a 40amp, multi bank charger. I have 
an older Xantrex 40+ wired to the house and starting bank. There is a solar 
charger for the group 24 battery that is OK for now, but I plan to install an 
ACR that will top up the charge on that battery when I'm hooked to shore power 
or running the engine.

   

  To put 100 AH into my house bank by running the engine (with a 45 amp 
alternator installed) will take at least 3 hours of run time - which is OK when 
I'm traveling on the ICW but not acceptable when at anchor. SO I plan to 
install a bank of solar panels over the Bimini, and maybe a wind generator as 
well, to maintain the batteries at anchor.

   

  As you can see, the process starts with determining how much power you will 
be using each day, and that will depend on what systems you have installed for 
cruising.

   

  You said you had an "OEM" battery charger installed. Probably not really OEM, 
but the question is: is it still working? If it is, spend your money on the 
other systems you will be installing, and the additional batteries, and worry 
about a new (probably more efficient) charger in 2017 or so.

   

   

  Rick Brass

  Washington, NC

   

   

   

  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Curtis
  Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:16 PM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

   

  I picked up the one noted above to maintain the battery's. In my first post I 
was trying to explain I needed something to keep the batt's charged while 
sailing ever couple of weeks. "For Now" In  2018 We hope to shove off for some 
extended cruising. 

  I will need to install a Good expensive on board fixed mount bank charger. 
This is what I was hoping to get advice on. the Good one that will give me a 
charge on all my batt's when I come in from off shore. 

  Sorry for the confusion.

   

   

   

   

  On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Josh Muckley  wrote:

  Evidently, we all misunderstood the question.  The battery minder is 
advertised to provide a "de-sufating" pulse charge to prevent loss of capacity. 
 This is fine and may or may not add value for your purpose.  Had any of us 
realized that you simply wanted to keep the batteries from self discharging 
during winter storage you would have received drastically different answers.  

  For ultra cheap $20 you can find 2amp smart chargers that cycle to prevent 
over charging.  If conditioning or de-sufating was the goal then I would have 
possibly recommended a higher power portable unit with a conditioning feature.  
10-40amps, 3 stage, and conditioning mode, $50-100.  Stanley, Schumacher, 
Vector all have similar units available at the big box, auto, and boat stores.  
I'm not convinced that the battery minder has a more effective de-sulfating 
feature than any of the others. 

  Many people prefer to occasionally visit the boat to top up the batteries.  
This eliminates the risks of overcharge, electical fire, and galvanic corrosion.

  What type of charger did you already have?  What was wrong with using it?

  Josh Muckley

  On Dec 17, 2013 10:29 AM, "Curtis"  wrote:

  Battery Tender Plus 12v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT-021-0128
   

  Sorry I posted the wrong model.

   

 

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Della Barba, Joe]

To add to the mix, any Atomic-4 powered boat is running a 1:1 pulley ratio. 
This results in a max of around 60-80 amps even if you add a 500 amp alternator 
and no charging at all at idle. One project I have on the back burner is 
fabbing a bracket to run off a crank pulley and get a better ratio. Adding 
solar kind of put that back a bit – amazing how much good even 25 watts does.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Frederick G Street]

Also remember that putting a huge alternator on a diesel like ours can present 
excessive side-loading to the shaft bearings, reducing their life.  So try to 
size appropriately for your battery bank AND engine hp.  Going too big can be 
bad for your engine.

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:18 AM, Steve Thomas  wrote:

> Excellent comments Rich.
>  
> I would add that one needs to confirm that the power take off available for 
> driving a proposed larger alternator can handle the increased load. This is 
> especially true for engines where the power take off is through a gear train, 
> and not directly off one end of the crankshaft. In these circumstances it may 
> not be just a question of how large a fraction of the engine's output do you 
> want to direct to the alternator. The maximum load presented by the proposed 
> alternator, plus the water pump load, must not exceed the power take off 
> design limits. This is at least an issue with the Yanmar YSE, YSB, and YSM 
> series of engines. I don't know if there are any other common engine with 
> designs similar in that respect, but it is worth checking before going and an 
> buying too large an alternator for a specific engine. Yes the specific 
> engines I mentioned are smaller than 20-35 HP, but there are many of us that 
> do have em. An alternator that can actually deliver 100 amps will need around 
> 3 horsepower to drive it.
>  
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
> Port Stanley, ON

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Rich Knowles]

The drive belt is as much a limiting factor as anything else. I've been using 
an adapted Delco 105A alternator for at least 12 years with no bad outcomes to 
my Yanmar 3QM30 other than a new belt every year or so. Also I seldom see the 
charge rate exceed 70A. 

Rich

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 11:18, Steve Thomas  wrote:
> 
> Excellent comments Rich.
>  
> I would add that one needs to confirm that the power take off available for 
> driving a proposed larger alternator can handle the increased load. This is 
> especially true for engines where the power take off is through a gear train, 
> and not directly off one end of the crankshaft. In these circumstances it may 
> not be just a question of how large a fraction of the engine's output do you 
> want to direct to the alternator. The  maximum load presented by the proposed 
> alternator, plus the water pump load, must not exceed the power take off 
> design limits. This is at least an issue with the Yanmar YSE, YSB, and YSM 
> series of engines. I don't know if there are any other common engine with 
> designs similar in that respect, but it is worth checking before going and an 
> buying too large an alternator  for a specific engine. Yes the specific 
> engines I mentioned are smaller than 20-35 HP, but there are many of us that 
> do have em. An alternator that can actually deliver 100 amps will need around 
> 3 horsepower to drive it.
>  
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
> Port Stanley, ON
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:38 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
> 
> And to increase the presumptuous factor:
> 
> The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small boat 
> engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single voltage 
> output regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined for use in 
> small motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that application. 
> For our use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick notes, radar 
> and refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods between charges, 
> those alternators are bordering on inadequate, and certainly not as efficient 
> and appropriate as higher power units with multi stage regulators. 
> 
> For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical system 
> should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system. This will 
> involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can be fitted, 
> taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of pocket book 
> into account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works well. There are a 
> number of external regulators available that should be considered for 
> installation as part of the new system. A new alternator with a multi-step 
> regulator will considerably reduce the engine run time needed to replenish 
> the batteries. Other devices such as wind generators and solar panels are 
> important for long range travels as well to further reduce the dependency on 
> the engine. 
> 
> For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of 
> batteries to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the 
> fact that a 50% discharged battery will charge to around 80% at a fairly 
> linear rate which will drop significantly as the state of charge nears 100%. 
> Trying to achieve the last 20% can take a long time compared to the first 
> 30%. This will vary depending on battery type and condition, so my 30% figure 
> is somewhat arbitrary, but fairly realistic.
> 
> A shore power fed battery charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to 
> sustain loads from refrigeration, lighting and entertainment devices 
> operating while the boat is alongside, and also provide enough power to 
> replenish the batteries. Again, a multi-step unit designed for marine use 
> should be chosen. There are lots of good marine chargers on the market. 
> 
> I note that non-marine AC chargers may not completely isolate the input from 
> the output, a potentially dangerous situation on the water, and should be 
> avoided. 
> 
> As Rick notes, designing an efficient, reliable electrical system is complex. 
> 
> It's snowing again. G!
> 
> Rich Knowles
> INDIGO - LF38
> Halifax, NS
> 
> 
>> On Dec 17, 2013, at 20:45, "Rick Brass"  wrote:
>> 
>> Curtis;
>> At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the 
>> horse.
>> If your intent is extended cruising – particularly offshore cruising where 
>> youwill not be using y

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations? comment about alternators

[Curtis]

So here's a dumb question?
If I'm on shore power is just my battery charger and the DC outlets using
shore power or can I run the cabin lights and radio on the DC system? and
if so how?



On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Rick Brass wrote:

> Dwight;
>
>
>
> Rich and I were addressing the power systems for a boat used for long term
> live aboard cruising. IIRC you are on a dock and use your boat for daysails
> and the occasional weekend or vacation cruise. For than situation, the OEM
> alternator is just fine.
>
>
>
> Starting your engine draws somewhere around 200 amps for something around
> 30 seconds. That is less than 2 AH reduction in capacity. Add a 2 to 3%
> reduction for self discharge over a month at the dock. Call it another 4 AH
> on a typical  group 24 battery. So you need to put around 6 AH back into
> your start battery while the engine runs, and the battery is probably at
> around 95% charge when you start out, so there is high resistance to
> charging and reduced acceptance rate. You probably need to run the engine
> for 20 or 30 minutes to recharge the start battery.
>
>
>
> All your boat systems except the bilge pump are turned off when at the
> dock, except when you are on vacation. So you only have to replace the loss
> from self discharge in your house bank. Two golf cart batteries is probably
> around 275 AH capacity, times 3% per month, is around 8-9 AH. Your OEM
> alternator is probably able to accomplish that while you motor out and
> raise the sails.
>
>
>
> I’m sort of surprised that the house bank was able to run your
> refrigeration for 5 days. Most refrigeration systems seem to use 45 or more
> AH in a 24 hour period. But then, you are in the great white north so maybe
> the lower average temperature differential reduces the cooling load and
> thus the current draw.
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *
> dwight
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:39 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
>
>
>
> Hi Rich
>
>
>
> I am not sure what my alternator output rating is but my ammeter never
> shows more than 60 and even that is not for long as it settles out to
> between 15 and 30 fairly quickly, like after a a minute of steaming.  If I
> switch from one battery bank to the other during steaming I can sometimes
> notice a slight drag on the engine (it seems to slow down a bit) but even
> that is momentary (a second or 2).  My house bank is two, 6 volt deep cycle
> batteries connected in series and my start bank is one Group 24 deep
> cycle…they have been on the boat for 7 years continuous and have never let
> me down.  I run an old 1720 Furuno radar when I need it (fog or dark) and I
> run an Adler Barber in icebox refrigerator freezer.  I try to remember to
> manually cycle the fridge on and off since I disconnected the thermostat
> and now can’t remember which wires go where to reconnect it…Last season I
> left the boat unattended on the mooring for about 5 days but I forgot to
> turn off the fridge.  Much to my surprise after those 5 days there was
> still power left in the battery and the fridge was still cold and I have no
> added insulation around the ice box yet!!  I was able to start the engine
> from my start battery and recharge my house bank from the engine. Probably
> some sailors use more power on a regular basis than I do but 100 amps seems
> like a pretty high charge rate.  Would a 100 amp charge rate not be hard on
> the cells?
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* CnC-List 
> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Rich Knowles
> *Sent:* December 18, 2013 8:38 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
>
>
>
> And to increase the presumptuous factor:
>
>
>
> The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small
> boat engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single
> voltage output regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined
> for use in small motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that
> application. For our use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick
> notes, radar and refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods
> between charges, those alternators are bordering on inadequate, and
> certainly not as efficient and appropriate as higher power units with multi
> stage regulators.
>
>
>
> For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical
> system should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system.
> This will involve repla

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations? comment about alternators

[Rick Brass]

Dwight;

 

Rich and I were addressing the power systems for a boat used for long term
live aboard cruising. IIRC you are on a dock and use your boat for daysails
and the occasional weekend or vacation cruise. For than situation, the OEM
alternator is just fine.

 

Starting your engine draws somewhere around 200 amps for something around 30
seconds. That is less than 2 AH reduction in capacity. Add a 2 to 3%
reduction for self discharge over a month at the dock. Call it another 4 AH
on a typical  group 24 battery. So you need to put around 6 AH back into
your start battery while the engine runs, and the battery is probably at
around 95% charge when you start out, so there is high resistance to
charging and reduced acceptance rate. You probably need to run the engine
for 20 or 30 minutes to recharge the start battery.

 

All your boat systems except the bilge pump are turned off when at the dock,
except when you are on vacation. So you only have to replace the loss from
self discharge in your house bank. Two golf cart batteries is probably
around 275 AH capacity, times 3% per month, is around 8-9 AH. Your OEM
alternator is probably able to accomplish that while you motor out and raise
the sails.

 

I'm sort of surprised that the house bank was able to run your refrigeration
for 5 days. Most refrigeration systems seem to use 45 or more AH in a 24
hour period. But then, you are in the great white north so maybe the lower
average temperature differential reduces the cooling load and thus the
current draw.

 

Rick

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:39 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

Hi Rich

 

I am not sure what my alternator output rating is but my ammeter never shows
more than 60 and even that is not for long as it settles out to between 15
and 30 fairly quickly, like after a a minute of steaming.  If I switch from
one battery bank to the other during steaming I can sometimes notice a
slight drag on the engine (it seems to slow down a bit) but even that is
momentary (a second or 2).  My house bank is two, 6 volt deep cycle
batteries connected in series and my start bank is one Group 24 deep
cycle.they have been on the boat for 7 years continuous and have never let
me down.  I run an old 1720 Furuno radar when I need it (fog or dark) and I
run an Adler Barber in icebox refrigerator freezer.  I try to remember to
manually cycle the fridge on and off since I disconnected the thermostat and
now can't remember which wires go where to reconnect it.Last season I left
the boat unattended on the mooring for about 5 days but I forgot to turn off
the fridge.  Much to my surprise after those 5 days there was still power
left in the battery and the fridge was still cold and I have no added
insulation around the ice box yet!!  I was able to start the engine from my
start battery and recharge my house bank from the engine. Probably some
sailors use more power on a regular basis than I do but 100 amps seems like
a pretty high charge rate.  Would a 100 amp charge rate not be hard on the
cells?

 

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Knowles
Sent: December 18, 2013 8:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

And to increase the presumptuous factor:

 

The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small
boat engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single
voltage output regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined
for use in small motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that
application. For our use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick
notes, radar and refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods
between charges, those alternators are bordering on inadequate, and
certainly not as efficient and appropriate as higher power units with multi
stage regulators. 

 

For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical system
should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system. This
will involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can be
fitted, taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of
pocket book into account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works well.
There are a number of external regulators available that should be
considered for installation as part of the new system. A new alternator with
a multi-step regulator will considerably reduce the engine run time needed
to replenish the batteries. Other devices such as wind generators and solar
panels are important for long range travels as well to further reduce the
dependency on the engine. 

 

For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of
batteries to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the
fact that a 50% discharged battery w

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Steve Thomas]

Excellent comments Rich. 

I would add that one needs to confirm that the power take off available for 
driving a proposed larger alternator can handle the increased load. This is 
especially true for engines where the power take off is through a gear train, 
and not directly off one end of the crankshaft. In these circumstances it may 
not be just a question of how large a fraction of the engine's output do you 
want to direct to the alternator. The maximum load presented by the proposed 
alternator, plus the water pump load, must not exceed the power take off design 
limits. This is at least an issue with the Yanmar YSE, YSB, and YSM series of 
engines. I don't know if there are any other common engine with designs similar 
in that respect, but it is worth checking before going and an buying too large 
an alternator for a specific engine. Yes the specific engines I mentioned are 
smaller than 20-35 HP, but there are many of us that do have em. An alternator 
that can actually deliver 100 amps will need around 3 horsepower to drive it. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?


And to increase the presumptuous factor:


The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small boat 
engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single voltage output 
regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined for use in small 
motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that application. For our 
use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick notes, radar and 
refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods between charges, those 
alternators are bordering on inadequate, and certainly not as efficient and 
appropriate as higher power units with multi stage regulators. 


For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical system 
should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system. This will 
involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can be fitted, 
taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of pocket book into 
account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works well. There are a number 
of external regulators available that should be considered for installation as 
part of the new system. A new alternator with a multi-step regulator will 
considerably reduce the engine run time needed to replenish the batteries. 
Other devices such as wind generators and solar panels are important for long 
range travels as well to further reduce the dependency on the engine. 


For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of batteries 
to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the fact that a 
50% discharged battery will charge to around 80% at a fairly linear rate which 
will drop significantly as the state of charge nears 100%. Trying to achieve 
the last 20% can take a long time compared to the first 30%. This will vary 
depending on battery type and condition, so my 30% figure is somewhat 
arbitrary, but fairly realistic.


A shore power fed battery charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to sustain 
loads from refrigeration, lighting and entertainment devices operating while 
the boat is alongside, and also provide enough power to replenish the 
batteries. Again, a multi-step unit designed for marine use should be chosen. 
There are lots of good marine chargers on the market. 


I note that non-marine AC chargers may not completely isolate the input from 
the output, a potentially dangerous situation on the water, and should be 
avoided. 


As Rick notes, designing an efficient, reliable electrical system is complex. 


It's snowing again. G!


Rich Knowles
INDIGO - LF38
Halifax, NS




On Dec 17, 2013, at 20:45, "Rick Brass"  wrote:


  Curtis;



  At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the horse.



  If your intent is extended cruising – particularly offshore cruising where 
you will not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the batteries) 
every day – you will first need to think about the systems you have on board 
and how much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major draw. Radar? 
Autopilot? What instruments? What lights? Power for entertainment like radio or 
TV?  Small things like a 12 v electric coffee maker or a microwave draw a 
shocking amount of power out of your batteries.



  Once you know how many amp hours you will use on average, you can figure out 
how many additional batteries you need, what type, and where to put them. My 
average consumption right now is under 100 amp-hours/day. But I plan to run 
refrigeration (45 more AH) and to anchor out for extended periods. So my house 
bank is 4 deep cycle group 27 batteries with 46

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[David]

When I "re-alternatored" my boat with a smart charger etc. I sized the 
alternator so as to not put too much drag on the engine.  I sized my at 80 amp 
for a 33 hp diesel.  I estimate I lose 3hp when full on charging.  Any more, 
and you start losing, in my opinion, too much HP.

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


From: dwight...@gmail.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 10:38:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?























Hi Rich

 

I am not sure what my alternator output
rating is but my ammeter never shows more than 60 and even that is not for long
as it settles out to between 15 and 30 fairly quickly, like after a a minute of
steaming.  If I switch from one battery bank to the other during steaming
I can sometimes notice a slight drag on the engine (it seems to slow down a
bit) but even that is momentary (a second or 2).  My house bank is two, 6
volt deep cycle batteries connected in series and my start bank is one Group 24
deep cycle…they have been on the boat for 7 years continuous and have never let
me down.  I run an old 1720 Furuno radar when I need it (fog or dark) and
I run an Adler Barber in icebox refrigerator freezer.  I try to remember
to manually cycle the fridge on and off since I disconnected the thermostat and
now can’t remember which wires go where to reconnect it…Last season I left the
boat unattended on the mooring for about 5 days but I forgot to turn off the
fridge.  Much to my surprise after those 5 days there was still power left in
the battery and the fridge was still cold and I have no added insulation around
the ice box yet!!  I was able to start the engine from my start battery
and recharge my house bank from the engine. Probably some sailors use more
power on a regular basis than I do but 100 amps seems like a pretty high charge
rate.  Would a 100 amp charge rate not be hard on the cells?

 

 









From: CnC-List
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On
Behalf Of Rich Knowles

Sent: December 18, 2013 8:38 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?



 



And to increase the
presumptuous factor:





 





The alternators that were
supplied as original equipment with most small boat engines until recently were
from 35 - 55 A with internal, single voltage output regulators. A good
percentage of the engines were destined for use in small motor vessels and
these alternators were adequate for that application. For our use, which sees
greatly increased loads from, as Rick notes, radar and refrigeration, and
lengthy battery discharge periods between charges, those alternators are
bordering on inadequate, and certainly not as efficient and appropriate as
higher power units with multi stage regulators. 





 





For sailing vessels, a
central component of optimizing the electrical system should be upgrading the
generating capacity of the charging system. This will involve replacing the
alternator with the largest unit that can be fitted, taking physical 
restrictions,
drive belt capacity and depth of pocket book into account. For most 20-35 HP
engines, around 100A works well. There are a number of external regulators
available that should be considered for installation as part of the new system.
A new alternator with a multi-step regulator will considerably reduce the
engine run time needed to replenish the batteries. Other devices such as wind
generators and solar panels are important for long range travels as well to
further reduce the dependency on the engine. 





 





For calculation purposes,
I generally consider the usable capacity of batteries to be 30% rather than 50%
of rated capacity. This stems from the fact that a 50% discharged battery will
charge to around 80% at a fairly linear rate which will drop significantly as
the state of charge nears 100%. Trying to achieve the last 20% can take a long
time compared to the first 30%. This will vary depending on battery type and
condition, so my 30% figure is somewhat arbitrary, but fairly realistic.





 





A shore power fed battery
charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to sustain loads from refrigeration,
lighting and entertainment devices operating while the boat is alongside, and
also provide enough power to replenish the batteries. Again, a multi-step unit
designed for marine use should be chosen. There are lots of good marine
chargers on the market. 





 





I note that non-marine AC
chargers may not completely isolate the input from the output, a potentially
dangerous situation on the water, and should be avoided. 





 





As Rick notes, designing
an efficient, reliable electrical system is complex. 





 





It's snowing again.
G!





 





Rich Knowles





INDIGO - LF38





Halifax,
 NS









 























___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
Cn

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Rick Brass]

Rich;

 

Thanks for the comments on the alternator. You’re right that generation 
capacity is an important consideration depending on how you cruise.

 

My cruising is coastal, along the ICW with engine on at least half the time, 
then long periods at anchor. I’ve decided that my engine alternator is 
sufficient when under weigh, but I hate to need to run the engine at all when 
at anchor. So I’ve invested in both Blue Sea and Link battery monitors to help 
me stretch the time between recharge at anchor, and contemplate solar and/or 
wind power installations to keep engine use down.

 

Maybe I won something in the lottery last night that will let me pay for it.

 

I have sympathy for your reaction to the snow. Winter Sucks! More than old 
sails.

 

Yesterday it was 67. Last night in the low 30s, going to 48 later today. 
They’re forecasting 80 on Saturday and Sunday and then back to 50 next week. I 
wish it would just even out to a nice steady 60-65. Then I could take down the 
Christmas lights on the boat and go sailing.

 

Rick Brass

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

And to increase the presumptuous factor:

 

The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small boat 
engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single voltage output 
regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined for use in small 
motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that application. For our 
use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick notes, radar and 
refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods between charges, those 
alternators are bordering on inadequate, and certainly not as efficient and 
appropriate as higher power units with multi stage regulators. 

 

For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical system 
should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system. This will 
involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can be fitted, 
taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of pocket book into 
account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works well. There are a number 
of external regulators available that should be considered for installation as 
part of the new system. A new alternator with a multi-step regulator will 
considerably reduce the engine run time needed to replenish the batteries. 
Other devices such as wind generators and solar panels are important for long 
range travels as well to further reduce the dependency on the engine. 

 

For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of batteries 
to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the fact that a 
50% discharged battery will charge to around 80% at a fairly linear rate which 
will drop significantly as the state of charge nears 100%. Trying to achieve 
the last 20% can take a long time compared to the first 30%. This will vary 
depending on battery type and condition, so my 30% figure is somewhat 
arbitrary, but fairly realistic.

 

A shore power fed battery charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to sustain 
loads from refrigeration, lighting and entertainment devices operating while 
the boat is alongside, and also provide enough power to replenish the 
batteries. Again, a multi-step unit designed for marine use should be chosen. 
There are lots of good marine chargers on the market. 

 

I note that non-marine AC chargers may not completely isolate the input from 
the output, a potentially dangerous situation on the water, and should be 
avoided. 

 

As Rick notes, designing an efficient, reliable electrical system is complex. 

 

It's snowing again. G!

 

Rich Knowles

INDIGO - LF38

Halifax, NS

 


On Dec 17, 2013, at 20:45, "Rick Brass"  wrote:

Curtis;

 

At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the horse.

 

If your intent is extended cruising – particularly offshore cruising where you 
will not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the batteries) every 
day – you will first need to think about the systems you have on board and how 
much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major draw. Radar? Autopilot? 
What instruments? What lights? Power for entertainment like radio or TV?  Small 
things like a 12 v electric coffee maker or a microwave draw a shocking amount 
of power out of your batteries.

 

Once you know how many amp hours you will use on average, you can figure out 
how many additional batteries you need, what type, and where to put them. My 
average consumption right now is under 100 amp-hours/day. But I plan to run 
refrigeration (45 more AH) and to anchor out for extended periods. So my house 
bank is 4 deep cycle group 27 batteries with 460 AH capacity. That gives 230 
usable AH (50% discharge) and s

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[dwight]

Hi Rich

 

I am not sure what my alternator output rating is but my ammeter never shows
more than 60 and even that is not for long as it settles out to between 15
and 30 fairly quickly, like after a a minute of steaming.  If I switch from
one battery bank to the other during steaming I can sometimes notice a
slight drag on the engine (it seems to slow down a bit) but even that is
momentary (a second or 2).  My house bank is two, 6 volt deep cycle
batteries connected in series and my start bank is one Group 24 deep
cycle.they have been on the boat for 7 years continuous and have never let
me down.  I run an old 1720 Furuno radar when I need it (fog or dark) and I
run an Adler Barber in icebox refrigerator freezer.  I try to remember to
manually cycle the fridge on and off since I disconnected the thermostat and
now can't remember which wires go where to reconnect it.Last season I left
the boat unattended on the mooring for about 5 days but I forgot to turn off
the fridge.  Much to my surprise after those 5 days there was still power
left in the battery and the fridge was still cold and I have no added
insulation around the ice box yet!!  I was able to start the engine from my
start battery and recharge my house bank from the engine. Probably some
sailors use more power on a regular basis than I do but 100 amps seems like
a pretty high charge rate.  Would a 100 amp charge rate not be hard on the
cells?

 

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Knowles
Sent: December 18, 2013 8:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

And to increase the presumptuous factor:

 

The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small
boat engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single
voltage output regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined
for use in small motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that
application. For our use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick
notes, radar and refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods
between charges, those alternators are bordering on inadequate, and
certainly not as efficient and appropriate as higher power units with multi
stage regulators. 

 

For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical system
should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system. This
will involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can be
fitted, taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of
pocket book into account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works well.
There are a number of external regulators available that should be
considered for installation as part of the new system. A new alternator with
a multi-step regulator will considerably reduce the engine run time needed
to replenish the batteries. Other devices such as wind generators and solar
panels are important for long range travels as well to further reduce the
dependency on the engine. 

 

For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of
batteries to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the
fact that a 50% discharged battery will charge to around 80% at a fairly
linear rate which will drop significantly as the state of charge nears 100%.
Trying to achieve the last 20% can take a long time compared to the first
30%. This will vary depending on battery type and condition, so my 30%
figure is somewhat arbitrary, but fairly realistic.

 

A shore power fed battery charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to
sustain loads from refrigeration, lighting and entertainment devices
operating while the boat is alongside, and also provide enough power to
replenish the batteries. Again, a multi-step unit designed for marine use
should be chosen. There are lots of good marine chargers on the market. 

 

I note that non-marine AC chargers may not completely isolate the input from
the output, a potentially dangerous situation on the water, and should be
avoided. 

 

As Rick notes, designing an efficient, reliable electrical system is
complex. 

 

It's snowing again. G!

 

Rich Knowles

INDIGO - LF38

Halifax, NS

 





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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Curtis]

Thanks'


On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

> I have one Curtis. I'll send it along later today.
>
> Rich
>
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 10:19, Curtis  wrote:
>
> In doing my research hoping to find a Energy Budget work sheet in excel
> format. This way I could plug in the cost of each of my power using pieces
> and see what it comes up with.
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
“Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline,
should really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Rich Knowles]

I have one Curtis. I'll send it along later today. 

Rich

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 10:19, Curtis  wrote:
> 
> In doing my research hoping to find a Energy Budget work sheet in excel 
> format. This way I could plug in the cost of each of my power using pieces 
> and see what it comes up with.
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Curtis]

need to think about the systems you
>> have on board and how much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major
>> draw. Radar? Autopilot? What instruments? What lights? Power for
>> entertainment like radio or TV?  Small things like a 12 v electric coffee
>> maker or a microwave draw a shocking amount of power out of your batteries.
>>
>>
>>
>> Once you know how many amp hours you will use on average, you can figure
>> out how many additional batteries you need, what type, and where to put
>> them. My average consumption right now is under 100 amp-hours/day. But I
>> plan to run refrigeration (45 more AH) and to anchor out for extended
>> periods. So my house bank is 4 deep cycle group 27 batteries with 460 AH
>> capacity. That gives 230 usable AH (50% discharge) and should let me go for
>> 2 days between charges. In addition I have a group 29 marine starting
>> battery as a second bank, and a deep cycle group 24 under the v-berth to
>> power the head and the anchor windlass.
>>
>>
>>
>> The 400+ AH house bank dictates at least a 40amp, multi bank charger. I
>> have an older Xantrex 40+ wired to the house and starting bank. There is a
>> solar charger for the group 24 battery that is OK for now, but I plan to
>> install an ACR that will top up the charge on that battery when I’m hooked
>> to shore power or running the engine.
>>
>>
>>
>> To put 100 AH into my house bank by running the engine (with a 45 amp
>> alternator installed) will take at least 3 hours of run time – which is OK
>> when I’m traveling on the ICW but not acceptable when at anchor. SO I plan
>> to install a bank of solar panels over the Bimini, and maybe a wind
>> generator as well, to maintain the batteries at anchor.
>>
>>
>>
>> As you can see, the process starts with determining how much power you
>> will be using each day, and that will depend on what systems you have
>> installed for cruising.
>>
>>
>>
>> You said you had an “OEM” battery charger installed. Probably not really
>> OEM, but the question is: is it still working? If it is, spend your money
>> on the other systems you will be installing, and the additional batteries,
>> and worry about a new (probably more efficient) charger in 2017 or so.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick Brass
>>
>> Washington, NC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List 
>> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
>> *On Behalf Of *Curtis
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:16 PM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
>>
>>
>>
>> I picked up the one noted above to maintain the battery's. In my first
>> post I was trying to explain I needed something to keep the batt's charged
>> while sailing ever couple of weeks. "For Now" In  2018 We hope to shove off
>> for some extended cruising.
>>
>> I will need to install a Good expensive on board fixed mount bank
>> charger. This is what I was hoping to get advice on. the Good one that will
>> give me a charge on all my batt's when I come in from off shore.
>>
>> Sorry for the confusion.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Josh Muckley 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Evidently, we all misunderstood the question.  The battery minder is
>> advertised to provide a "de-sufating" pulse charge to prevent loss of
>> capacity.  This is fine and may or may not add value for your purpose.  Had
>> any of us realized that you simply wanted to keep the batteries from self
>> discharging during winter storage you would have received drastically
>> different answers.
>>
>> For ultra cheap $20 you can find 2amp smart chargers that cycle to
>> prevent over charging.  If conditioning or de-sufating was the goal then I
>> would have possibly recommended a higher power portable unit with a
>> conditioning feature.  10-40amps, 3 stage, and conditioning mode, $50-100.
>> Stanley, Schumacher, Vector all have similar units available at the big
>> box, auto, and boat stores.  I'm not convinced that the battery minder has
>> a more effective de-sulfating feature than any of the others.
>>
>> Many people prefer to occasionally visit the boat to top up the
>> batteries.  This eliminates the risks of overcharge, electical fire, and
>> galvanic corrosion.
>>
>> What type of charger did you already have?  What was wrong with using it?
>>

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Joel Aronson]

Nigel Calders book has a list.

Joel

On Wednesday, December 18, 2013, Curtis wrote:

> Wow. You guys have gone deep with the power consumption and recharging
> principles. You have open my eyes to a big project moving forward. Keep in
> mind my wife and I will not need much power. Bet you have heard that before
> from people starting out. HAHAh. Well wet me see what it looks like.
>
> 1) AM/FM Radio   *4 hr a week*
>
> 2) ST4000 AUTO helm *8 hrs a day*
>
> 3) Garmin echo50s (GPS) *8 hrs a day*
>
> 4) Bow and stern running lights   *8 hrs a week*
>
> 5) Spreader lights  *Almost never*
>
> 6) Mast head anchor light *(12 hours a day) LED*
>
> 7) Cabin lights *(8 hours a day) LED*
>
> 8) VHF Radio “Hand Held” *8 hrs a day*
>
> 9) VHF fixed mount *8 hrs a day scan mode weather alert*
>
> 10) Ray marine gauge “ Depth” *8 hrs a day*
>
> 11) Ray marine gauge “Wind” *8 hrs a day*
>
> 12 Ray marine gauges
>
> 13) IPOD for movies *2 hrs a day*
>
> 14) Cell phones 2 “1 droid”  “1 I phone”
>
>
>
> We have no refrigerator
>
> We have no t/v at this time
>
> Toilet is a manual
>
> In doing my research hoping to find a Energy Budget work sheet in excel
> format. This way I could plug in the cost of each of my power using pieces
> and see what it comes up with.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
>
> And to increase the presumptuous factor:
>
> The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small
> boat engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single
> voltage output regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined
> for use in small motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that
> application. For our use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick
> notes, radar and refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods
> between charges, those alternators are bordering on inadequate, and
> certainly not as efficient and appropriate as higher power units with multi
> stage regulators.
>
> For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical
> system should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system.
> This will involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can
> be fitted, taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of
> pocket book into account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works
> well. There are a number of external regulators available that should be
> considered for installation as part of the new system. A new alternator
> with a multi-step regulator will considerably reduce the engine run time
> needed to replenish the batteries. Other devices such as wind generators
> and solar panels are important for long range travels as well to further
> reduce the dependency on the engine.
>
> For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of
> batteries to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the
> fact that a 50% discharged battery will charge to around 80% at a fairly
> linear rate which will drop significantly as the state of charge nears
> 100%. Trying to achieve the last 20% can take a long time compared to the
> first 30%. This will vary depending on battery type and condition, so my
> 30% figure is somewhat arbitrary, but fairly realistic.
>
> A shore power fed battery charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to
> sustain loads from refrigeration, lighting and entertainment devices
> operating while the boat is alongside, and also provide enough power to
> replenish the batteries. Again, a multi-step unit designed for marine use
> should be chosen. There are lots of good marine chargers on the market.
>
> I note that non-marine AC chargers may not completely isolate the input
> from the output, a potentially dangerous situation on the water, and should
> be avoided.
>
> As Rick notes, designing an efficient, reliable electrical system is
> complex.
>
> It's snowing again. G!
>
> Rich Knowles
> INDIGO - LF38
> Halifax, NS
>
>
> On Dec 17, 2013, at 20:45, "Rick Brass"  wrote:
>
> Curtis;
>
>
>
> At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the
> horse.
>
>
>
> If your intent is extended cruising – particularly offshore cruising where
> you will not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the batteries)
> every day – you will first need to think about the systems you have on
> board and how much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major draw.
> Radar? Autopilot? What instruments? What lights? Power for entertainment
> like radio or TV?  Small things like a 12 v electric coffee maker or a
> microwave draw a shocking amount of power out of your batteries.
>
>
>
> On
>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Curtis]

to run refrigeration (45 more AH) and to anchor out for extended
> periods. So my house bank is 4 deep cycle group 27 batteries with 460 AH
> capacity. That gives 230 usable AH (50% discharge) and should let me go for
> 2 days between charges. In addition I have a group 29 marine starting
> battery as a second bank, and a deep cycle group 24 under the v-berth to
> power the head and the anchor windlass.
>
>
>
> The 400+ AH house bank dictates at least a 40amp, multi bank charger. I
> have an older Xantrex 40+ wired to the house and starting bank. There is a
> solar charger for the group 24 battery that is OK for now, but I plan to
> install an ACR that will top up the charge on that battery when I’m hooked
> to shore power or running the engine.
>
>
>
> To put 100 AH into my house bank by running the engine (with a 45 amp
> alternator installed) will take at least 3 hours of run time – which is OK
> when I’m traveling on the ICW but not acceptable when at anchor. SO I plan
> to install a bank of solar panels over the Bimini, and maybe a wind
> generator as well, to maintain the batteries at anchor.
>
>
>
> As you can see, the process starts with determining how much power you
> will be using each day, and that will depend on what systems you have
> installed for cruising.
>
>
>
> You said you had an “OEM” battery charger installed. Probably not really
> OEM, but the question is: is it still working? If it is, spend your money
> on the other systems you will be installing, and the additional batteries,
> and worry about a new (probably more efficient) charger in 2017 or so.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List 
> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
> *On Behalf Of *Curtis
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:16 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
>
>
>
> I picked up the one noted above to maintain the battery's. In my first
> post I was trying to explain I needed something to keep the batt's charged
> while sailing ever couple of weeks. "For Now" In  2018 We hope to shove off
> for some extended cruising.
>
> I will need to install a Good expensive on board fixed mount bank charger.
> This is what I was hoping to get advice on. the Good one that will give me
> a charge on all my batt's when I come in from off shore.
>
> Sorry for the confusion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Josh Muckley  wrote:
>
> Evidently, we all misunderstood the question.  The battery minder is
> advertised to provide a "de-sufating" pulse charge to prevent loss of
> capacity.  This is fine and may or may not add value for your purpose.  Had
> any of us realized that you simply wanted to keep the batteries from self
> discharging during winter storage you would have received drastically
> different answers.
>
> For ultra cheap $20 you can find 2amp smart chargers that cycle to prevent
> over charging.  If conditioning or de-sufating was the goal then I would
> have possibly recommended a higher power portable unit with a conditioning
> feature.  10-40amps, 3 stage, and conditioning mode, $50-100.  Stanley,
> Schumacher, Vector all have similar units available at the big box, auto,
> and boat stores.  I'm not convinced that the battery minder has a more
> effective de-sulfating feature than any of the others.
>
> Many people prefer to occasionally visit the boat to top up the
> batteries.  This eliminates the risks of overcharge, electical fire, and
> galvanic corrosion.
>
> What type of charger did you already have?  What was wrong with using it?
>
> Josh Muckley
>
> On Dec 17, 2013 10:29 AM, "Curtis"  wrote:
> *Battery Tender Plus 12v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT-021-0128*
>
>
>
> Sorry I posted the wrong model.
>
>
>
>
>
> Wal-mart
>
> $66.48
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Bill Bina  wrote:
>
> Hopefully you can return it. You need a 12 volt charger, not an 8 volt
> charger. You also need substantially more than 1.25 amps. This thing will
> barely charge an 8 volt motorcycle battery.
>
> Bill Bina
>
>
>
> On 12/17/2013 9:47 AM, Curtis wrote:
>
> After much study and review I purchased a portable charger last night
>
> Battery Tender Plus 8v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT8v021-0152
> This is a very popular 8 volt unit for battery storage. The Battery
> Tender Plus is a 1.25 amp battery charger designed to fully charge a
> battery and maintain it at proper storage voltage without the damaging
> effects caused by trickle chargers. The E-Z quick d

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Rich Knowles]

harger installed. Probably not really OEM, 
> but the question is: is it still working? If it is, spend your money on the 
> other systems you will be installing, and the additional batteries, and worry 
> about a new (probably more efficient) charger in 2017 or so.
>  
>  
> Rick Brass
> Washington, NC
>  
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Curtis
> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:16 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
>  
> I picked up the one noted above to maintain the battery's. In my first post I 
> was trying to explain I needed something to keep the batt's charged while 
> sailing ever couple of weeks. "For Now" In  2018 We hope to shove off for 
> some extended cruising. 
> I will need to install a Good expensive on board fixed mount bank charger. 
> This is what I was hoping to get advice on. the Good one that will give me a 
> charge on all my batt's when I come in from off shore. 
> Sorry for the confusion.
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Josh Muckley  wrote:
> Evidently, we all misunderstood the question.  The battery minder is 
> advertised to provide a "de-sufating" pulse charge to prevent loss of 
> capacity.  This is fine and may or may not add value for your purpose.  Had 
> any of us realized that you simply wanted to keep the batteries from self 
> discharging during winter storage you would have received drastically 
> different answers. 
> 
> For ultra cheap $20 you can find 2amp smart chargers that cycle to prevent 
> over charging.  If conditioning or de-sufating was the goal then I would have 
> possibly recommended a higher power portable unit with a conditioning 
> feature.  10-40amps, 3 stage, and conditioning mode, $50-100.  Stanley, 
> Schumacher, Vector all have similar units available at the big box, auto, and 
> boat stores.  I'm not convinced that the battery minder has a more effective 
> de-sulfating feature than any of the others.
> 
> Many people prefer to occasionally visit the boat to top up the batteries.  
> This eliminates the risks of overcharge, electical fire, and galvanic 
> corrosion.
> 
> What type of charger did you already have?  What was wrong with using it?
> 
> Josh Muckley
> 
> On Dec 17, 2013 10:29 AM, "Curtis"  wrote:
> Battery Tender Plus 12v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT-021-0128
>  
> Sorry I posted the wrong model.
>  
>  
> Wal-mart
> $66.48
>  
> 
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Bill Bina  wrote:
> Hopefully you can return it. You need a 12 volt charger, not an 8 volt 
> charger. You also need substantially more than 1.25 amps. This thing will 
> barely charge an 8 volt motorcycle battery.
> 
> Bill Bina
> 
> 
> On 12/17/2013 9:47 AM, Curtis wrote:
> After much study and review I purchased a portable charger last night
> 
> Battery Tender Plus 8v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT8v021-0152
> This is a very popular 8 volt unit for battery storage. The Battery
> Tender Plus is a 1.25 amp battery charger designed to fully charge a
> battery and maintain it at proper storage voltage without the damaging
> effects caused by trickle chargers. The E-Z quick disconnect harness
> (1 of each ring ends and alligator clips included) allows you to leave
> the charger wiring attached to the battery while operating the
> vehicle. Battery Tender Plus will not overcharge or boil battery when
> connected long term.
> 
> I hope it will keep them topped off when I'm not there.
> 
>  
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> “Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline, should 
> really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> “Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline, should 
> really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[bobmor99 .]

For the past 2-3 years I've had a Guest 10 Amp charger keeping a pair of
lead acid batteries topped up at the dock. It too is a solid state design
which is great; if not bullet-proof, for sure waterproof.

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|328|2289962|2289963&id=1450046

Bob M
Ox 33-1
Jax, FL

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Wally Bryant  wrote:

>   I really like the new solid state units, and so far no problems.
>
>
> Wal
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Rick Brass]

Curtis;

 

At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the
horse.

 

If your intent is extended cruising - particularly offshore cruising where
you will not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the batteries)
every day - you will first need to think about the systems you have on board
and how much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major draw. Radar?
Autopilot? What instruments? What lights? Power for entertainment like radio
or TV?  Small things like a 12 v electric coffee maker or a microwave draw a
shocking amount of power out of your batteries.

 

Once you know how many amp hours you will use on average, you can figure out
how many additional batteries you need, what type, and where to put them. My
average consumption right now is under 100 amp-hours/day. But I plan to run
refrigeration (45 more AH) and to anchor out for extended periods. So my
house bank is 4 deep cycle group 27 batteries with 460 AH capacity. That
gives 230 usable AH (50% discharge) and should let me go for 2 days between
charges. In addition I have a group 29 marine starting battery as a second
bank, and a deep cycle group 24 under the v-berth to power the head and the
anchor windlass.

 

The 400+ AH house bank dictates at least a 40amp, multi bank charger. I have
an older Xantrex 40+ wired to the house and starting bank. There is a solar
charger for the group 24 battery that is OK for now, but I plan to install
an ACR that will top up the charge on that battery when I'm hooked to shore
power or running the engine.

 

To put 100 AH into my house bank by running the engine (with a 45 amp
alternator installed) will take at least 3 hours of run time - which is OK
when I'm traveling on the ICW but not acceptable when at anchor. SO I plan
to install a bank of solar panels over the Bimini, and maybe a wind
generator as well, to maintain the batteries at anchor.

 

As you can see, the process starts with determining how much power you will
be using each day, and that will depend on what systems you have installed
for cruising.

 

You said you had an "OEM" battery charger installed. Probably not really
OEM, but the question is: is it still working? If it is, spend your money on
the other systems you will be installing, and the additional batteries, and
worry about a new (probably more efficient) charger in 2017 or so.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Curtis
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:16 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

I picked up the one noted above to maintain the battery's. In my first post
I was trying to explain I needed something to keep the batt's charged while
sailing ever couple of weeks. "For Now" In  2018 We hope to shove off for
some extended cruising. 

I will need to install a Good expensive on board fixed mount bank charger.
This is what I was hoping to get advice on. the Good one that will give me a
charge on all my batt's when I come in from off shore. 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Josh Muckley  wrote:

Evidently, we all misunderstood the question.  The battery minder is
advertised to provide a "de-sufating" pulse charge to prevent loss of
capacity.  This is fine and may or may not add value for your purpose.  Had
any of us realized that you simply wanted to keep the batteries from self
discharging during winter storage you would have received drastically
different answers.  

For ultra cheap $20 you can find 2amp smart chargers that cycle to prevent
over charging.  If conditioning or de-sufating was the goal then I would
have possibly recommended a higher power portable unit with a conditioning
feature.  10-40amps, 3 stage, and conditioning mode, $50-100.  Stanley,
Schumacher, Vector all have similar units available at the big box, auto,
and boat stores.  I'm not convinced that the battery minder has a more
effective de-sulfating feature than any of the others. 

Many people prefer to occasionally visit the boat to top up the batteries.
This eliminates the risks of overcharge, electical fire, and galvanic
corrosion.

What type of charger did you already have?  What was wrong with using it?

Josh Muckley

On Dec 17, 2013 10:29 AM, "Curtis"  wrote:


Battery Tender Plus 12v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT-021-0128


 

Sorry I posted the wrong model.

 

 

Wal-mart

$66.48

 

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Bill Bina  wrote:

Hopefully you can return it. You need a 12 volt charger, not an 8 volt
charger. You also need substantially more than 1.25 amps. This thing will
barely charge an 8 volt motorcycle battery.

Bill Bina



On 12/17/2013 9:47 AM, Curtis wrote:

After much study and review I purchased a portable charger last night

Battery Tender Plus 8v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT8v021-0152
This is a very popular 

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Jake Brodersen]

Yes, this is the one keeping my Harley warm during the cold winter.

 

Jake

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Knowles
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:40 AM
To: cnc-list Cnc-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

 

That's work as a maintainer over winter.

 

Rich







 

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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[dwight]

agree

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina
Sent: December 17, 2013 11:00 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

Hopefully you can return it. You need a 12 volt charger, not an 8 volt 
charger. You also need substantially more than 1.25 amps. This thing 
will barely charge an 8 volt motorcycle battery.

Bill Bina

On 12/17/2013 9:47 AM, Curtis wrote:
> After much study and review I purchased a portable charger last night
>
> Battery Tender Plus 8v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT8v021-0152
> This is a very popular 8 volt unit for battery storage. The Battery
> Tender Plus is a 1.25 amp battery charger designed to fully charge a
> battery and maintain it at proper storage voltage without the damaging
> effects caused by trickle chargers. The E-Z quick disconnect harness
> (1 of each ring ends and alligator clips included) allows you to leave
> the charger wiring attached to the battery while operating the
> vehicle. Battery Tender Plus will not overcharge or boil battery when
> connected long term.
>
> I hope it will keep them topped off when I'm not there.
>


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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3658/6428 - Release Date: 12/17/13


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Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Curtis]

Just trying to get all the systems up and working with bugs shook out be
for then. I also would like to spend the money while I have it.


On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 2:37 PM, dwight  wrote:

> agree
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Bina
> Sent: December 17, 2013 11:00 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?
>
> Hopefully you can return it. You need a 12 volt charger, not an 8 volt
> charger. You also need substantially more than 1.25 amps. This thing
> will barely charge an 8 volt motorcycle battery.
>
> Bill Bina
>
> On 12/17/2013 9:47 AM, Curtis wrote:
> > After much study and review I purchased a portable charger last night
> >
> > Battery Tender Plus 8v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT8v021-0152
> > This is a very popular 8 volt unit for battery storage. The Battery
> > Tender Plus is a 1.25 amp battery charger designed to fully charge a
> > battery and maintain it at proper storage voltage without the damaging
> > effects caused by trickle chargers. The E-Z quick disconnect harness
> > (1 of each ring ends and alligator clips included) allows you to leave
> > the charger wiring attached to the battery while operating the
> > vehicle. Battery Tender Plus will not overcharge or boil battery when
> > connected long term.
> >
> > I hope it will keep them topped off when I'm not there.
> >
>
>
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> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3658/6428 - Release Date: 12/17/13
>
>
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>



-- 
“Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline,
should really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat
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