Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K4] Remtely turning on K4?

[David F. Reed]

Thanks Bruce; I admit I was hoping for, but forgot to specify, doing it with a 
software command (power down is available as a software command)…

73 de W5SV - Dave

> On Jan 23, 2023, at 11:49, Bruce - K5WBM  wrote:
> 
> Just momentarily short pins 5 and 8 on the accessory connector.  I use a 
> cheap USB relay from Amazon for that.
> 
> Bruce - K5WBM
> 
>> On Jan 23, 2023, at 11:40 AM, David Reed - W5SV  wrote:
>> 
>> I am wondering if there is a way, or plans for a way, to remotely turn on 
>> the K4…. I know I can power it down remotely; how about the other side of 
>> this coin?
>> 
>> 73 de W5SV - Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Heil PR-781 and K4

[Jim Brown]

On 11/21/2022 6:10 AM, Ron at Signs by Ron wrote:

I'm looking for feedback from anyone using a Heil PR-781 microphone with a K4.


Heil mics are cheaply made and wildly overpriced. I own a bunch of pro 
broadcast and recording quality mics, but since W6XU turned our 
contesting club on to the Yamaha CM500 in 2008, have used nothing but. 
Both mic and phones sound great, and are quite comfortable, even for 
long contest weekends.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Heil PR-781 and K4

[Bill Johnson]

Paul, I have one and excellent reports vs Gold line.
Bill
K9YEQ

Have a wonderful day!
Bill

From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on 
behalf of Paul Van Dyke 
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2022 10:34:42 AM
To: Robert Sands 
Cc: Elecraft Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Heil PR-781 and K4

Hmmm

I have the 1st out of the shop K4D, and it is matched with the PR-781.
At this time I am in Louisiana and back at Christmas ... K4D is at home QTH
in Indiana,
The Elecraft says I sound great ... You do have to dial it in,

Paul Van Dyke - KB9AVO
K4D 076 and a whole lot of Elecraft radios


On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 10:17 AM Robert Sands  wrote:

> My 781 sounded great with K3 but terrible with K4.
> Bob
> K7VO
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022, 6:11 AM Ron at Signs by Ron 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> > I'm looking for feedback from anyone using a Heil PR-781 microphone with
> a
> > K4.  It's not on Heil website's "Elecraft compatible" list, however,
> HRO's
> > catalog does list Elecraft in the list of "elite" class radios for which
> > the PR-781 is designed.  I also saw a Youtube video of a K4 operator
> using
> > a PR-781 and seemingly having a great experience.
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Ron, W1TK
> > P.S. I'm currently using a Yaesu MD-1 which seems to work great.  As I
> > re-design my shack though, I'm going to have a second mic and boom for
> the
> > K4. The MD-1 will remain connected to my Yaesu radios.
> > __
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> >
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Re: [Elecraft] Heil PR-781 and K4

[Paul Van Dyke]

Hmmm

I have the 1st out of the shop K4D, and it is matched with the PR-781.
At this time I am in Louisiana and back at Christmas ... K4D is at home QTH
in Indiana,
The Elecraft says I sound great ... You do have to dial it in,

Paul Van Dyke - KB9AVO
K4D 076 and a whole lot of Elecraft radios


On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 10:17 AM Robert Sands  wrote:

> My 781 sounded great with K3 but terrible with K4.
> Bob
> K7VO
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022, 6:11 AM Ron at Signs by Ron 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> > I'm looking for feedback from anyone using a Heil PR-781 microphone with
> a
> > K4.  It's not on Heil website's "Elecraft compatible" list, however,
> HRO's
> > catalog does list Elecraft in the list of "elite" class radios for which
> > the PR-781 is designed.  I also saw a Youtube video of a K4 operator
> using
> > a PR-781 and seemingly having a great experience.
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Ron, W1TK
> > P.S. I'm currently using a Yaesu MD-1 which seems to work great.  As I
> > re-design my shack though, I'm going to have a second mic and boom for
> the
> > K4. The MD-1 will remain connected to my Yaesu radios.
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
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> >
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Re: [Elecraft] Heil PR-781 and K4

[Robert Sands]

My 781 sounded great with K3 but terrible with K4.
Bob
K7VO

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022, 6:11 AM Ron at Signs by Ron 
wrote:

> Hello all,
> I'm looking for feedback from anyone using a Heil PR-781 microphone with a
> K4.  It's not on Heil website's "Elecraft compatible" list, however,  HRO's
> catalog does list Elecraft in the list of "elite" class radios for which
> the PR-781 is designed.  I also saw a Youtube video of a K4 operator using
> a PR-781 and seemingly having a great experience.
> Thanks in advance.
> Ron, W1TK
> P.S. I'm currently using a Yaesu MD-1 which seems to work great.  As I
> re-design my shack though, I'm going to have a second mic and boom for the
> K4. The MD-1 will remain connected to my Yaesu radios.
> __
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[Elecraft] Heil PR-781 and K4

[Ron at Signs by Ron]

Hello all,
I'm looking for feedback from anyone using a Heil PR-781 microphone with a K4.  
It's not on Heil website's "Elecraft compatible" list, however,  HRO's catalog 
does list Elecraft in the list of "elite" class radios for which the PR-781 is 
designed.  I also saw a Youtube video of a K4 operator using a PR-781 and 
seemingly having a great experience.
Thanks in advance.
Ron, W1TK
P.S. I'm currently using a Yaesu MD-1 which seems to work great.  As I 
re-design my shack though, I'm going to have a second mic and boom for the K4. 
The MD-1 will remain connected to my Yaesu radios.
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Re: [Elecraft] [POSSIBLE SPAM] Re: WTB: K4

[Dr. William J. Schmidt]

With more K3 radios broken on the bench than working at my contest station
(J68HZ)  and NO spare modules to work with, I had to make a decision on
replacement radios if we are to participate in contests in the next few
months.  Knowing that the chances of receiving 3-5 K4 radios by October were
exactly zero, I had to find something else.  Therefore, I ordered several
Flex 6600 radios.  Shipped in less than 6 weeks.  Big learning curve, but
not much of an alternative.  They also integrate very easily other
automation products.  I know plenty of others that are contemplating the
same thing.

If you find a K4 used, it will be a miracle.

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ

email:  b...@wjschmidt.com


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2022 4:31 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM] Re: [Elecraft] WTB: K4

I seriously doubt that anyone will part with one unless they're in money
trouble or giving up ham radio.

I've got one on order, but in the last few days, but I've been playing with
one that a friend loaned me while he's on vacation. Saturday night, I made
about 250 QSOs in a little less than 6 hours in the All Asia CW contest. I
love the filtering, diversity works awfully well with my Beverages, and
receive audio is significantly better than my K3s.

73, Jim K9YC

On 6/20/2022 1:36 PM, Alan D. Wilcox wrote:
> Considering adding a K4 to my shack, but not keen on the Elecraft 
> expected-delivery time.
> 
> Write or text me if you have one for me.

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[Elecraft] Operating note regarding the K4's "Noise Pulse Rejection" feature

[Wayne Burdick]

Thanks to some timely input from NC0B, we found an issue with the present 
implementation the K4's noise pulse rejection mechanism. When it's set to ON, 
it may induce gain and S-meter variations under certain noise conditions. 
(Otherwise, it does an excellent job of suppression large impulses due to 
appliance power switching, etc. In fact we call it the "Sherwood Pulse 
Detector" here at Elecraft Hq, because the original idea came from Rob.)

For now I'd recommend setting it to OFF. We're working on a solution.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] [K4] First Impressions of K4 SN122 (LONG!)

[Wayne Burdick]

[Re-posting my reply to the original post on groups.io]


> On May 19, 2021, at 12:03 AM, N1RM - Rick Miller  wrote:
> 
> I put SN122 through its initial paces today.  Here are some of observations:

Thanks, Rick. My comments below.


> 3. The BNC connectors protrude farther out the back panel than the K3, and 
> look a little strange to me. (But who really cares what the back panel looks 
> like!)

Unlike the K3, the five BNC connectors on K4 have bushings that are used to 
physically and electrically secure the connectors to the rear panel. This is 
part of the overall noise-reduction strategy. It also provides very rigid 
mounting for the RF board.


> 2. The interior is very interesting. Most parts appear to be very cleanly 
> integrated. The CPU has a bit of a "tacked on" appearance.  I applaud 
> Elecraft for not trying to design their own high performance processor board, 
> but the interface cabling looks a little ad hoc. It all works, but I have to 
> wonder how it would survive getting knocked around enroute to a Dxpediton.

Our goal here was to be able to adapt to future single-board-computer 
technology rather than be constrained to what's available today. Swapping 
boards would be a matter of adjusting mounting screw locations on the 
replaceable adapter bracket and at worst, replacing a couple of cables.

> 
> 3. The front headphone jack was completely dead on my radio, but the rear 
> headphone jack was fine. It was pretty easy to figure out how to release the 
> front panel (thanks to Wayne's excellent video on the 3D model of the K4). 
> The front headphone jack attaches to its circuit board with a socket that 
> plugs onto a 4-pin header. That connector was completely off the header

We're going to improve the mating connectors. Thanks for finding and reporting 
this.


> 
> 4. The pushbutton switches on the front panel are much more solid, with 
> better tactile feedback than the K3. I like them much better.

This is due to our use of real tact switches beneath the rubber in the K4. The 
K3 (and our other products with rubber switch matrices) uses carbon-dot 
contacts that rely on hysteresis in the rubber itself.


> 3. Tx audio compression seems to be very weak compared to the K3.  Even at 30 
> (max setting), it seemed to do less than a setting of 10 on the K3. It might 
> need some DSP attention.

Agreed. This is on our list.


> 
> 4. Most of the UI is absolutely great...
> 
> 5. The spectrum display system is a work of art...

> 6. Data and CW decoders can run simultaneously on the A and B VFO 
> frequencies...

Thanks for these observations :)

> 
> One weird thing:
> 1. I noticed very shortly after I turned the radio on for the first time (AF 
> gain at zero, no antenna connected) that I thought I had a ringing in my 
> ears.  When I turned off the radio it went away.  It wasn't loud, it just 
> felt like a very slight case of tinnitus. It was sort of like one of those 
> high pitched tones that you try to guess if it's there during a hearing test. 
> I noticed that it seemed to come and go as the display came up and went away. 
> (I resisted the urge to hold my finger up and down as it came and went :) 
> Then I noticed that it got fainter if I turned the display brightness down.  
> Just to be sure I wasn't imagining it, I hooked a microphone up to my PC and 
> Audacity, held it in front of the display, and then powered up the radio.  I 
> could see nothing in the time domain, but when I ran a spectrum on it, there 
> was a very distinct spike at 10 kHz. The spike disappeared with the radio 
> off. The "ham demographic" probably includes very few who could hear it, but 
 I'm one of them.  Just to put it in proper perspective, I'm that guy who 
during sound checks in church says "where is that squeal coming from?" and 
everyone else looks at me like I'm nuts.  It's just barely on the edge of being 
annoying, but there is hopefully something that can be done to mitigate it for 
those of us that can still hear weak 10 kHz audio. My guess is that it is a 
DC-DC boost converter somewhere in the display with a ringing inductor.

We'll definitely investigate whether it's a DC-DC converter on the front panel 
board or within the LCD itself. If there's a way to suppress the 10 kHz a bit, 
we'll find it. 


> 
> Bottom line:
> While very reminiscent of the K3, this is NOT a K3. It sounds better on Tx 
> and Rx and its UI is a whole new animal for Elecraft (in a good way!). It has 
> far more connectivity and control options than the K3, which means you will 
> have to invest some time to learn how the K4 thinks and acts.  I waited 
> exactly 2 years (to the day!) for this radio, and I can say that it was 
> certainly worth it for me.  Congratulations to Wayne and the whole Elecraft 
> team for getting this radio out under some really tough conditions.

Appreciate the feedback!

73,
Wayne
N6KR





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[Elecraft] [K4] First Impressions of K4 SN122 (LONG!)

[Rick Miller - N1RM]

ated K4 was less than an
hour, including full N1MM integration. There are so many different ways to
integrate both the K3 and K4 that your mileage will almost certainly vary.

2. The K4 takes less room horizontally than the K3/P3 combo, but it is
deeper (see attached photos).  That actually helped me because the front
panel ended up a little closer to me than the K3's did.  I have a pretty
deep desk, but if you have tight quarters in front of your K3, you may have
to rearrange some things.

One weird thing:
1. I noticed very shortly after I turned the radio on for the first time (AF
gain at zero, no antenna connected) that I thought I had a ringing in my
ears.  When I turned off the radio it went away.  It wasn't loud, it just
felt like a very slight case of tinnitus. It was sort of like one of those
high pitched tones that you try to guess if it's there during a hearing
test. I noticed that it seemed to come and go as the display came up and
went away. (I resisted the urge to hold my finger up and down as it came and
went :) Then I noticed that it got fainter if I turned the display
brightness down.  Just to be sure I wasn't imagining it, I hooked a
microphone up to my PC and Audacity, held it in front of the display, and
then powered up the radio.  I could see nothing in the time domain, but when
I ran a spectrum on it, there was a very distinct spike at 10 kHz. The spike
disappeared with the radio off. The "ham demographic" probably includes very
few who could hear it, but I'm one of them.  Just to put it in proper
perspective, I'm that guy who during sound checks in church says "where is
that squeal coming from?" and everyone else looks at me like I'm nuts.  It's
just barely on the edge of being annoying, but there is hopefully something
that can be done to mitigate it for those of us that can still hear weak 10
kHz audio. My guess is that it is a DC-DC boost converter somewhere in the
display with a ringing inductor.

Bottom line:
While very reminiscent of the K3, this is NOT a K3. It sounds better on Tx
and Rx and its UI is a whole new animal for Elecraft (in a good way!). It
has far more connectivity and control options than the K3, which means you
will have to invest some time to learn how the K4 thinks and acts.  I waited
exactly 2 years (to the day!) for this radio, and I can say that it was
certainly worth it for me.  Congratulations to Wayne and the whole Elecraft
team for getting this radio out under some really tough conditions.

73, be safe, have fun!

Rick Miller
N1RM

<http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/file/t246436/N1RM-K3.jpg> 
<http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/file/t246436/N1RM-K4.jpg> 



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[David Herring]

eople that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible
>>> so difficult.  I don't get it.
>>> 
>>> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
>>> 
>>> W0MU
>>> 
>>> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
>>> 
>>> Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in
>>> 
>>> time, his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end
>>> of May.  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching
>>> one of his presentations live and did hear that.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that
>>> 
>>> at one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4
>>> because tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have
>>> rendered the project unaffordable.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft
>>> 
>>> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the
>>> process.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d
>>> 
>>> ordered, perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild
>>> 
>>> Fires (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
>>> 
>>> 
>>> None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have
>>> 
>>> been foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently
>>> 
>>> waiting.  Content to give them the space they need to press on with
>>> addressing the issues as they come and moving forward.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> David - N5DCH
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun >> <mailto:kimoc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Presentation from the Expo.
>>> Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric
>>> 
>>> Swartz
>>> 
>>> WA6HHQ <https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/player.html?link=NTI4MjQzNTQ1 
>>> <https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/player.html?link=NTI4MjQzNTQ1>>
>>> 
>>> Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
>>> I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd
>>> 
>>> go
>>> 
>>> back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements.
>>> 
>>> Note:
>>> 
>>> I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over
>>> 
>>> and
>>> 
>>> over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
>>> These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
>>> errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on
>>> 
>>> the
>>> 
>>> Expo date: March 13, 2021.
>>> 
>>> Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are
>>> 
>>> other
>>> 
>>> segments.
>>> -He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they
>>> 
>>> have
>>> 
>>> now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
>>> weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups.
>>> 
>>> Plus
>>> 
>>> parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't
>>> 
>>> handled
>>> 
>>> yet. They are now smoothing things out and production will be ramping
>>> 
>>> up.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Kit versions are at least 4 to 5 months out.
>>> -They are still learning and modifying production techniques which will
>>> make it easier to build. Then how-to documentation must be updated.
>>> -The first day orders 16th (2019?) at Dayton, may be fulfilled soon.
>>> -The second day orders 17th will be 3 to 4 weeks or longer after Group
>>> 
>>> A is
>>> 
>>> done.
>>> -Group B is even larger than Group A.
>>> -Orders kept coming in all summer after Dayton and have dropped to a
>>> consistent medium rate. Some spikes like when it was announced they
>>> 
>>> started
>>> 
>>> shipping.
>>> -When asked, "If I were to o

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Julia Tuttle]

Yeah, periodic would be fine -- I think the big thing is setting
expectations for when and where, so folks can check there instead of
wondering or asking.

And I'm totally fine with the event video updates as long as the content is
also available in a text form somewhere obvious. (Heck, I'd volunteer to
transcribe them if it that'd be helpful.)

Honestly, I think sharing a little more of what's gone wrong and right
might be helpful -- I know I'm more sympathetic about this sort of thing
when I have an idea what's going on -- but I don't have a clear idea of the
downsides.

The aircraft option seems problematically local -- perhaps we could launch
a small satellite instead. :D

73,

Julie

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 15:20 Hal Massey  wrote:

> Julia, that makes sense. Perhaps we could add ‘periodic update instead of
> whenever they can?”
> PS— I like the event video updates because those clear the noise threshold
> of the multitude of emails I get but that is just a personal preference. A
> loud sky writing aircraft overhead for 7-8 hours would work even better for
> me but that’s probably asking too much.
>
> Regards
> -Hal
>
> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:37 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
>
> I'm not waiting on a K4 myself, but the K4 launch has put a strain on
> other parts of the business (like fixing KX3 firmware issues or responding
> to lower-priority support emails).
>
> I'd be happy to see updates whenever they're available, but to this list
> and clearly labeled as such -- it seems like a lot of the time the details
> come out in the middle of other threads that folks might miss. Somewhere on
> the website would also be nice.
>
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:33 Hal Massey  wrote:
>
>> What do you have in mind? I liked the event video.
>>
>> The most customer oriented thing they could do is fedex a letter
>> overnight with your radio status every day. But that gets expensive. You
>> might feel great about it. You say that is hyperbolic? True. But even a
>> weekly email with status is not cheap.
>>
>> Can you articulate what you do want in terms of communications?
>>
>> Regards
>> Hal
>>
>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
>>
>> "The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
>> these things like they used to?"
>>
>> Yes, that, right there.
>>
>> However much they are or aren't going to say, why do we have to watch
>> event
>> videos to hear it?
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:16 W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:
>>
>> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
>> these things like they used to?
>>
>> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for
>> everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor
>> in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios
>> have some wait times but not in the years category.
>>
>> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer
>> unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
>>
>> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with
>> people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible
>> so difficult.  I don't get it.
>>
>> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
>>
>> W0MU
>>
>> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
>>
>> Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in
>>
>> time, his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end
>> of May.  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching
>> one of his presentations live and did hear that.
>>
>>
>> Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that
>>
>> at one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4
>> because tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have
>> rendered the project unaffordable.
>>
>>
>> What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft
>>
>> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the
>> process.
>>
>>
>> Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d
>>
>> ordered, perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
>>
>>
>> Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild
>>
>> Fires (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
>>
>>
>> None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have
>>
>> been foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
>>
>>

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Hal Massey]

Julia, that makes sense. Perhaps we could add ‘periodic update instead of 
whenever they can?” 
PS— I like the event video updates because those clear the noise threshold of 
the multitude of emails I get but that is just a personal preference. A loud 
sky writing aircraft overhead for 7-8 hours would work even better for me but 
that’s probably asking too much.

Regards
-Hal

> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:37 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
> 
> I'm not waiting on a K4 myself, but the K4 launch has put a strain on other 
> parts of the business (like fixing KX3 firmware issues or responding to 
> lower-priority support emails).
> 
> I'd be happy to see updates whenever they're available, but to this list and 
> clearly labeled as such -- it seems like a lot of the time the details come 
> out in the middle of other threads that folks might miss. Somewhere on the 
> website would also be nice.
> 
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:33 Hal Massey  <mailto:haljr.mas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> What do you have in mind? I liked the event video. 
> 
> The most customer oriented thing they could do is fedex a letter overnight 
> with your radio status every day. But that gets expensive. You might feel 
> great about it. You say that is hyperbolic? True. But even a weekly email 
> with status is not cheap. 
> 
> Can you articulate what you do want in terms of communications? 
> 
> Regards
> Hal
> 
>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Julia Tuttle > <mailto:ju...@juliatuttle.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> "The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
>> these things like they used to?"
>> 
>> Yes, that, right there.
>> 
>> However much they are or aren't going to say, why do we have to watch event
>> videos to hear it?
>> 
>> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:16 W0MU Mike Fatchett > <mailto:w...@w0mu.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
>>> these things like they used to?
>>> 
>>> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for
>>> everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor
>>> in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios
>>> have some wait times but not in the years category.
>>> 
>>> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer
>>> unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
>>> 
>>> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with
>>> people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible
>>> so difficult.  I don't get it.
>>> 
>>> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
>>> 
>>> W0MU
>>> 
>>> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
>>>> Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in
>>> time, his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end
>>> of May.  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching
>>> one of his presentations live and did hear that.
>>>> 
>>>> Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that
>>> at one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4
>>> because tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have
>>> rendered the project unaffordable.
>>>> 
>>>> What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft
>>> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the
>>> process.
>>>> 
>>>> Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d
>>> ordered, perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
>>>> 
>>>> Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild
>>> Fires (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
>>>> 
>>>> None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have
>>> been foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
>>>> 
>>>> That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently
>>> waiting.  Content to give them the space they need to press on with
>>> addressing the issues as they come and moving forward.
>>>> 
>>>> 73,
>>>> David - N5DCH
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun >>>> <mailto:kimoc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Presentation from the Expo.
>>>>> Elecraft K4 High

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Julia Tuttle]

I'm not waiting on a K4 myself, but the K4 launch has put a strain on other
parts of the business (like fixing KX3 firmware issues or responding to
lower-priority support emails).

I'd be happy to see updates whenever they're available, but to this list
and clearly labeled as such -- it seems like a lot of the time the details
come out in the middle of other threads that folks might miss. Somewhere on
the website would also be nice.

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:33 Hal Massey  wrote:

> What do you have in mind? I liked the event video.
>
> The most customer oriented thing they could do is fedex a letter overnight
> with your radio status every day. But that gets expensive. You might feel
> great about it. You say that is hyperbolic? True. But even a weekly email
> with status is not cheap.
>
> Can you articulate what you do want in terms of communications?
>
> Regards
> Hal
>
> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
>
> "The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
> these things like they used to?"
>
> Yes, that, right there.
>
> However much they are or aren't going to say, why do we have to watch event
> videos to hear it?
>
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:16 W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:
>
> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
> these things like they used to?
>
> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for
> everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor
> in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios
> have some wait times but not in the years category.
>
> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer
> unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
>
> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with
> people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible
> so difficult.  I don't get it.
>
> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
>
> W0MU
>
> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
>
> Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in
>
> time, his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end
> of May.  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching
> one of his presentations live and did hear that.
>
>
> Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that
>
> at one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4
> because tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have
> rendered the project unaffordable.
>
>
> What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft
>
> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the
> process.
>
>
> Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d
>
> ordered, perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
>
>
> Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild
>
> Fires (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
>
>
> None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have
>
> been foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
>
>
> That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently
>
> waiting.  Content to give them the space they need to press on with
> addressing the issues as they come and moving forward.
>
>
> 73,
> David - N5DCH
>
>
>
> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:
>
> Presentation from the Expo.
> Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric
>
> Swartz
>
> WA6HHQ <https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/player.html?link=NTI4MjQzNTQ1>
>
> Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
> I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd
>
> go
>
> back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements.
>
> Note:
>
> I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over
>
> and
>
> over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
> These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
> errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on
>
> the
>
> Expo date: March 13, 2021.
>
> Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are
>
> other
>
> segments.
> -He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they
>
> have
>
> now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
> weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups.
>
> Plus
>
> parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longsho

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Hal Massey]

What do you have in mind? I liked the event video. 

The most customer oriented thing they could do is fedex a letter overnight with 
your radio status every day. But that gets expensive. You might feel great 
about it. You say that is hyperbolic? True. But even a weekly email with status 
is not cheap. 

Can you articulate what you do want in terms of communications? 

Regards
Hal

> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
> 
> "The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
> these things like they used to?"
> 
> Yes, that, right there.
> 
> However much they are or aren't going to say, why do we have to watch event
> videos to hear it?
> 
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:16 W0MU Mike Fatchett  <mailto:w...@w0mu.com>> wrote:
> 
>> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
>> these things like they used to?
>> 
>> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for
>> everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor
>> in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios
>> have some wait times but not in the years category.
>> 
>> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer
>> unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
>> 
>> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with
>> people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible
>> so difficult.  I don't get it.
>> 
>> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
>> 
>> W0MU
>> 
>> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
>>> Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in
>> time, his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end
>> of May.  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching
>> one of his presentations live and did hear that.
>>> 
>>> Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that
>> at one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4
>> because tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have
>> rendered the project unaffordable.
>>> 
>>> What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft
>> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the
>> process.
>>> 
>>> Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d
>> ordered, perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
>>> 
>>> Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild
>> Fires (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
>>> 
>>> None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have
>> been foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
>>> 
>>> That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently
>> waiting.  Content to give them the space they need to press on with
>> addressing the issues as they come and moving forward.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> David - N5DCH
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Presentation from the Expo.
>>>> Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric
>> Swartz
>>>> WA6HHQ <https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/player.html?link=NTI4MjQzNTQ1>
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
>>>> I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd
>> go
>>>> back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements.
>> Note:
>>>> I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over
>> and
>>>> over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
>>>> These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
>>>> errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on
>> the
>>>> Expo date: March 13, 2021.
>>>> 
>>>> Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are
>> other
>>>> segments.
>>>> -He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they
>> have
>>>> now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
>>>> weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups.
>> Plus
>>>> parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't
>> handled
>>>> yet. They are now smoothin

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Hal Massey]

They did communicate and recently. Did you miss that? 

I also cracked up at the word investor. Customer and investor are worlds apart. 

Are you an actual stake holder in this conversation? I am. I paid in advance 
for my K4.


I don’t feel like I need anymore communications than I have already received. 
Nor do I feel like rehashing this over and over or having non stake holders 
popping off randomly will make any difference. Did I miss something? 

Regards
-Hal



> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:15 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:
> 
> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us these 
> things like they used to?
> 
> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for everyone.  
> HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor in FLEX are 
> they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios have some wait 
> times but not in the years category.
> 
> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer unless 
> I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
> 
> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with people 
> that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible so difficult. 
>  I don't get it.
> 
> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
> 
> W0MU
> 
> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
>> Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in time, 
>> his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end of May. 
>>  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching one of 
>> his presentations live and did hear that.
>> 
>> Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that at 
>> one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4 because 
>> tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have rendered 
>> the project unaffordable.
>> 
>> What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft 
>> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the 
>> process.
>> 
>> Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d ordered, 
>> perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
>> 
>> Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild Fires 
>> (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
>> 
>> None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have been 
>> foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
>> 
>> That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently waiting.  
>> Content to give them the space they need to press on with addressing the 
>> issues as they come and moving forward.
>> 
>> 73,
>> David - N5DCH
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Presentation from the Expo.
>>> Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric Swartz
>>> WA6HHQ <https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/player.html?link=NTI4MjQzNTQ1>
>>> 
>>> Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
>>> I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd go
>>> back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements. Note:
>>> I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over and
>>> over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
>>> These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
>>> errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on the
>>> Expo date: March 13, 2021.
>>> 
>>> Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are other
>>> segments.
>>> -He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they have
>>> now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
>>> weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups. Plus
>>> parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't handled
>>> yet. They are now smoothing things out and production will be ramping up.
>>> 
>>> Kit versions are at least 4 to 5 months out.
>>> -They are still learning and modifying production techniques which will
>>> make it easier to build. Then how-to documentation must be updated.
>>> -The first day orders 16th (2019?) at Dayton, may be fulfilled soon.
>>> -The second day orders 17th will be 3 to 4 weeks or longer after Group A is
>>> done.
>>> -Group B is even larger than Group A.
>>> -Orders kept coming in all summer after Dayton 

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Julia Tuttle]

"The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
these things like they used to?"

Yes, that, right there.

However much they are or aren't going to say, why do we have to watch event
videos to hear it?

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:16 W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:

> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
> these things like they used to?
>
> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for
> everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor
> in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios
> have some wait times but not in the years category.
>
> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer
> unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
>
> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with
> people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible
> so difficult.  I don't get it.
>
> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
>
> W0MU
>
> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
> > Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in
> time, his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end
> of May.  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching
> one of his presentations live and did hear that.
> >
> > Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that
> at one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4
> because tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have
> rendered the project unaffordable.
> >
> > What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft
> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the
> process.
> >
> > Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d
> ordered, perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
> >
> > Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild
> Fires (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
> >
> > None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have
> been foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
> >
> > That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently
> waiting.  Content to give them the space they need to press on with
> addressing the issues as they come and moving forward.
> >
> > 73,
> > David - N5DCH
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:
> >>
> >> Presentation from the Expo.
> >> Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric
> Swartz
> >> WA6HHQ <https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/player.html?link=NTI4MjQzNTQ1>
> >>
> >> Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
> >> I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd
> go
> >> back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements.
> Note:
> >> I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over
> and
> >> over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
> >> These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
> >> errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on
> the
> >> Expo date: March 13, 2021.
> >>
> >> Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are
> other
> >> segments.
> >> -He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they
> have
> >> now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
> >> weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups.
> Plus
> >> parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't
> handled
> >> yet. They are now smoothing things out and production will be ramping
> up.
> >>
> >> Kit versions are at least 4 to 5 months out.
> >> -They are still learning and modifying production techniques which will
> >> make it easier to build. Then how-to documentation must be updated.
> >> -The first day orders 16th (2019?) at Dayton, may be fulfilled soon.
> >> -The second day orders 17th will be 3 to 4 weeks or longer after Group
> A is
> >> done.
> >> -Group B is even larger than Group A.
> >> -Orders kept coming in all summer after Dayton and have dropped to a
> >> consistent medium rate. Some spikes like when it was announced they
> started
> >> shipping.
> >> -When asked, "If I were to order a K4 right now, how long would I have
> 

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us 
these things like they used to?


I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for 
everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor 
in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios 
have some wait times but not in the years category.


K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer 
unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.


Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with 
people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible 
so difficult.  I don't get it.


I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.

W0MU

On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:

Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in time, his 
expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end of May.  I 
didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching one of his 
presentations live and did hear that.

Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that at one 
point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4 because tariffs 
levied on certain parts from certain countries would have rendered the project 
unaffordable.

What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft apparently 
had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the process.

Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d ordered, 
perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…

Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild Fires (and 
employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…

None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have been 
foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.

That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently waiting.  
Content to give them the space they need to press on with addressing the issues 
as they come and moving forward.

73,
David - N5DCH




On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:

Presentation from the Expo.
Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric Swartz
WA6HHQ <https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/player.html?link=NTI4MjQzNTQ1>

Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd go
back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements. Note:
I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over and
over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on the
Expo date: March 13, 2021.

Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are other
segments.
-He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they have
now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups. Plus
parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't handled
yet. They are now smoothing things out and production will be ramping up.

Kit versions are at least 4 to 5 months out.
-They are still learning and modifying production techniques which will
make it easier to build. Then how-to documentation must be updated.
-The first day orders 16th (2019?) at Dayton, may be fulfilled soon.
-The second day orders 17th will be 3 to 4 weeks or longer after Group A is
done.
-Group B is even larger than Group A.
-Orders kept coming in all summer after Dayton and have dropped to a
consistent medium rate. Some spikes like when it was announced they started
shipping.
-When asked, "If I were to order a K4 right now, how long would I have to
wait?", he answered, "Over 3 to 4 months".
- I asked the very last question - When will the K4HD be finalized? He
said, "Conservatively... by the end of the year". So production comes
sometime thereafter. Plug in upgrades to the K4D, presumably, first for
those who ordered K4HD but took the K4D first.
- Testimonials from K4 owners would be found on the Elecraft-K4 GroupsIO
list.

Side bar: somewhere else in the presentation he said Group A
will, hopefully, be completed in the next month or so (did I get this
right? I didn't find that section). Group B (even larger) comes after that.
I haven't re-checked the definition of Group A and B sorry.

I hope this helps some of you with delivery anxiety.
73,
Kimo KH7U
(Happy with my almost new K3S s/n 11727, so the K4 is but a dream down the
road. I tend to be the opposite of bleeding edge).
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Pleas

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[David Herring]

Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in time, his 
expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end of May.  I 
didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching one of his 
presentations live and did hear that. 

Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that at one 
point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4 because tariffs 
levied on certain parts from certain countries would have rendered the project 
unaffordable. 

What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft apparently 
had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the process. 

Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d ordered, 
perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…

Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild Fires (and 
employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…

None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have been 
foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.

That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently waiting.  
Content to give them the space they need to press on with addressing the issues 
as they come and moving forward.

73,
David - N5DCH



> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:
> 
> Presentation from the Expo.
> Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric Swartz
> WA6HHQ <https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/player.html?link=NTI4MjQzNTQ1>
> 
> Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
> I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd go
> back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements. Note:
> I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over and
> over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
> These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
> errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on the
> Expo date: March 13, 2021.
> 
> Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are other
> segments.
> -He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they have
> now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
> weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups. Plus
> parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't handled
> yet. They are now smoothing things out and production will be ramping up.
> 
> Kit versions are at least 4 to 5 months out.
> -They are still learning and modifying production techniques which will
> make it easier to build. Then how-to documentation must be updated.
> -The first day orders 16th (2019?) at Dayton, may be fulfilled soon.
> -The second day orders 17th will be 3 to 4 weeks or longer after Group A is
> done.
> -Group B is even larger than Group A.
> -Orders kept coming in all summer after Dayton and have dropped to a
> consistent medium rate. Some spikes like when it was announced they started
> shipping.
> -When asked, "If I were to order a K4 right now, how long would I have to
> wait?", he answered, "Over 3 to 4 months".
> - I asked the very last question - When will the K4HD be finalized? He
> said, "Conservatively... by the end of the year". So production comes
> sometime thereafter. Plug in upgrades to the K4D, presumably, first for
> those who ordered K4HD but took the K4D first.
> - Testimonials from K4 owners would be found on the Elecraft-K4 GroupsIO
> list.
> 
> Side bar: somewhere else in the presentation he said Group A
> will, hopefully, be completed in the next month or so (did I get this
> right? I didn't find that section). Group B (even larger) comes after that.
> I haven't re-checked the definition of Group A and B sorry.
> 
> I hope this helps some of you with delivery anxiety.
> 73,
> Kimo KH7U
> (Happy with my almost new K3S s/n 11727, so the K4 is but a dream down the
> road. I tend to be the opposite of bleeding edge).
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to david.n5...@gmail.com 

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[Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Kimo Chun]

Presentation from the Expo.
Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric Swartz
WA6HHQ <https://www.qsotodayhamexpo.com/player.html?link=NTI4MjQzNTQ1>

Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd go
back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements. Note:
I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over and
over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on the
Expo date: March 13, 2021.

Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are other
segments.
-He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they have
now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups. Plus
parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't handled
yet. They are now smoothing things out and production will be ramping up.

Kit versions are at least 4 to 5 months out.
-They are still learning and modifying production techniques which will
make it easier to build. Then how-to documentation must be updated.
-The first day orders 16th (2019?) at Dayton, may be fulfilled soon.
-The second day orders 17th will be 3 to 4 weeks or longer after Group A is
done.
-Group B is even larger than Group A.
-Orders kept coming in all summer after Dayton and have dropped to a
consistent medium rate. Some spikes like when it was announced they started
shipping.
-When asked, "If I were to order a K4 right now, how long would I have to
wait?", he answered, "Over 3 to 4 months".
- I asked the very last question - When will the K4HD be finalized? He
said, "Conservatively... by the end of the year". So production comes
sometime thereafter. Plug in upgrades to the K4D, presumably, first for
those who ordered K4HD but took the K4D first.
- Testimonials from K4 owners would be found on the Elecraft-K4 GroupsIO
list.

Side bar: somewhere else in the presentation he said Group A
will, hopefully, be completed in the next month or so (did I get this
right? I didn't find that section). Group B (even larger) comes after that.
I haven't re-checked the definition of Group A and B sorry.

I hope this helps some of you with delivery anxiety.
73,
Kimo KH7U
(Happy with my almost new K3S s/n 11727, so the K4 is but a dream down the
road. I tend to be the opposite of bleeding edge).
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[Elecraft] Hi Resolution Photograph of K4?

[James F. Boehner, MD via Elecraft]

 

Hello All,

 

I asked about a high-resolution picture of the Elecraft K4 some time ago and
was told that I should just save the picture on the website to my computer.

 

I have a high-resolution picture of the K3s and P3 that I use for wallpaper
at my Elecraft station.  It is available in the photo section of the
elecraft...@groups.io <mailto:elecraft...@groups.io>  list.  The direct link
is here:

 

 <https://groups.io/g/Elecraft-K3/photo/262077/0?p=Name,,,20,1,0,0>
elecraft...@groups.io | Photo

 

This file is 1.04 MB with image dimensions of 1920 x 1080 with horizontal
and vertical resolutions of 300 dpi

The k3s wallpaper file above has stunning resolution and quality.

 

The picture on the Elecraft  website (K4front-headon splitscreen)  is an 80
kb file with image dimensions of 1060 x 497, with horizontal and vertical
resolution of 72 dpi.

 

Is a higher resolution picture of the K4 available anywhere?  

 

TIA,

 

'73 de JIM N2ZZ

_._,_._,_

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[Elecraft] Fwd: [wsjt-devel] Elecraft K4

[Bill Frantz]

This request appeared on the wsjt-x developers list. Michael is 
the HamLib developer for wsjt-x. If you can help him, please 
contact him directly.


73 Bill AE6JV

== Forwarded Message ==
Date: 2/27/21 5:25 AM
Received: 2/27/21 12:30 AM -0500
From: wsjt-de...@lists.sourceforge.net (Black Michael via wsjt-devel)
To: wsjt-de...@lists.sourceforge.net (WSJT Software Development)
CC: mdblac...@yahoo.com (Black Michael)

Any Elecraft K4 users out there willing to do some testing with 
hamlib/wsjt-x?Trying to ensure it's covered correctly.

Mike W9MDB


== End Forwarded Message ==


Bill Frantz|"Insofar as the propositions of mathematics 
refer to
408-348-7900   | reality, they are not certain; and insofar 
they are
www.pwpconsult.com | certain, they do not refer to reality.” 
-- Einstein
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[Elecraft] Another note on the K4's noise blanker

[Wayne Burdick]

I should have mentioned that the K4 also has a panadapter noise blanker that's 
very effective. It removes pulse noise that would otherwise cause the 
panadapter noise floor to rise, where it might obscure weak signals.

The display NB can be turned on automatically at the same time that the 
receiver blanker is turned on (AUTO setting), or turned on/off manually. Either 
way, the level settings for the display and receiver blankers are independent 
and per-band.

While recording the noise sample I just provided, I had the display NB on as 
well. It knocked the noise level on the panadapter down by about 20 dB. Weak 
signals could be clearly seen.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> 

> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 2:15 PM Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> A brief K4 audio sample can be downloaded using the link at the end of this 
> email. 
> 
> This recording hows how the new K4 noise blanker algorithm can reveal a 
> signal buried under loud noise. It also highlights the effectiveness of the 
> audio-peaking filter (APF) when listening to a very weak CW signal. 
> 
> This was recorded on 17 meters, CW mode, in a 1 kHz bandwidth. Both receivers 
> are turned on, tuned to the same frequency, and the recording is stereo. 
> There's a slight delay between main and sub RX audio as the settings change; 
> this is due to tapping A>B to copy the main RX NB and APF settings to the sub 
> RX.
> 
> Things to listen for (T in seconds):
> 
> T0:S-9 noise masking very weak carrier
> 
> T7:Noise blanker turned on so that only atmospheric noise remains; 
> carrier now barely audible
> 
> T14:   APF turned on, 30 Hz BW; carrier clearly audible
> 
> T23:   Carrier disappears, leaving band noise only
> 
> http://ftp.elecraft.com/K4/K4_audio_samples/K4%20NB%20demo%201.mp3
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Phil Kane]

On 2/3/2021 9:44 AM, Eric Garner wrote:


isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?


Some 50-60 years ago Henry Radio in California used to "rent" used 
transceivers by requiring a deposit of full sale price, which would be 
refunded less a nominal charge when the gear was returned in the same 
shape as when rented.  I took advantage of that several times.


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Eric Swartz]

[END of Thread]

Folks - this topic has quickly hit the limit for single topic posts in a
short period.
In the interest of improving list SNR, let's let this thread end for now.

73
Eric   WA6HHQ
List mooderator
*elecraft.com <http://elecraft.com>*
Eric
*elecraft.com <http://elecraft.com>*


On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 2:45 PM Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

>
> Your numbers are entirely unrealistic for for a $4000 transceiver.
>
> The discount for a "used" (rental stock) device would need to be
> *at least* 20-25% (typical of "B Stock" in the professional AV
> world).  A two to four week rental would need to be *at least*
> $500, if not more, to cover the overhead, management, repair and
> refurbishment (with every rental) costs of such an endeavor.
>
> Given the constrained availability of the K4, the ability of the
> factory to sell every unit they can ship for the next 18-24 months
> at a minimum, limited repair capacity, and cost or repair parts,
> Elecraft would be losing money with any rental operation.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2021-02-03 3:31 PM, John Harper wrote:
> > Let's throw some numbers in, just for S:
> >
> > I pay $200 for 2 weeks of togetherness with a K4. Another $100 for 2-way
> > shipping.
> >
> > I'm out $300 if I decide not to keep the rig.
> >
> > No one's going to go for this unless they're already thinking seriously
> of
> > buying the thing. If they only like it marginally, they realize they now
> > have a $300 dud to send back or (more likely) they realize that they're
> > already 85 or 90% of the way (financially) toward ownership.
> >
> > And...Elecraft only has 10 K4's slotted for this program. They'll prolly
> > sell 8 or 9 of them and can continue to rent, or eventually sell as used
> > (at 90% retail) the remaining two. They're ahead either way.
> >
> > To top it off, they benefit from the social media buzz created by those
> 90%
> > who like, decide to keep and rave about the rig online. A few may even
> name
> > their firstborns Wayne and/or Eric. It's a win-win for all involved.
> >
> > Few people who use/own one are dissatisfied with an E rig. This would
> > potentially increase the number of people within that pool.
> >
> > John AE5X
> > https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> >
> >> The real problem with rental returns ("B Stock") is that is can
> >> no longer be sold as new resulting in a loss of value that is
> >> often more than the rental proceeds.
> > __
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> >
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Your numbers are entirely unrealistic for for a $4000 transceiver.

The discount for a "used" (rental stock) device would need to be
*at least* 20-25% (typical of "B Stock" in the professional AV
world).  A two to four week rental would need to be *at least*
$500, if not more, to cover the overhead, management, repair and
refurbishment (with every rental) costs of such an endeavor.

Given the constrained availability of the K4, the ability of the
factory to sell every unit they can ship for the next 18-24 months
at a minimum, limited repair capacity, and cost or repair parts,
Elecraft would be losing money with any rental operation.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-02-03 3:31 PM, John Harper wrote:

Let's throw some numbers in, just for S:

I pay $200 for 2 weeks of togetherness with a K4. Another $100 for 2-way
shipping.

I'm out $300 if I decide not to keep the rig.

No one's going to go for this unless they're already thinking seriously of
buying the thing. If they only like it marginally, they realize they now
have a $300 dud to send back or (more likely) they realize that they're
already 85 or 90% of the way (financially) toward ownership.

And...Elecraft only has 10 K4's slotted for this program. They'll prolly
sell 8 or 9 of them and can continue to rent, or eventually sell as used
(at 90% retail) the remaining two. They're ahead either way.

To top it off, they benefit from the social media buzz created by those 90%
who like, decide to keep and rave about the rig online. A few may even name
their firstborns Wayne and/or Eric. It's a win-win for all involved.

Few people who use/own one are dissatisfied with an E rig. This would
potentially increase the number of people within that pool.

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com


The real problem with rental returns ("B Stock") is that is can
no longer be sold as new resulting in a loss of value that is
often more than the rental proceeds.

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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Dr. William J. Schmidt]

I have some experience on this topic because I rent out my Elecraft
equipment at my contest station in the Caribbean (J68HZ).  I have to treat
it strictly as a business investment. setting the price for rental at what I
would have to expect to replace all of the equipment every 5-10 years
depending upon what it is. and a little more for breakage in between.  Of
course its discounted by my usage as well, but I can tell you it isn't
exactly cheap.  However the program is well thought out and it can be done.
I can't do the remote station thing on St. Lucia because its not permitted
by their version of the FCC rules.

 

 

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ 

email:    b...@wjschmidt.com

 

 



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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Bill Frantz]

Sure sounds like the service Remote Ham Radio 
 is already offering with Flex 
equipment. I seem to remember there also a service that offers 
Elecraft equipment.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 2/3/21 at 2:20 PM, ab7e...@gmail.com (David Gilbert) wrote:

I suppose, given the purported remote capability of the K4 
using a free app (as opposed to a piece of dedicated hardware), 
somebody might be willing to offer remote access to a K4 in 
exchange for a modest fee.  In my opinion, if the K4 is as 
remotable as claimed then it should be mostly possible to 
evaluate it that way.   Even then I suspect that Elecraft 
wouldn't want the hassle of offering that ... maybe somebody 
else would.


---
Bill Frantz| Security is like Government  | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | services. The market doesn't | 150 
Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | want to pay for them.| 
Peterborough, NH 03458


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[Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[John Harper]

Let's throw some numbers in, just for S:

I pay $200 for 2 weeks of togetherness with a K4. Another $100 for 2-way
shipping.

I'm out $300 if I decide not to keep the rig.

No one's going to go for this unless they're already thinking seriously of
buying the thing. If they only like it marginally, they realize they now
have a $300 dud to send back or (more likely) they realize that they're
already 85 or 90% of the way (financially) toward ownership.

And...Elecraft only has 10 K4's slotted for this program. They'll prolly
sell 8 or 9 of them and can continue to rent, or eventually sell as used
(at 90% retail) the remaining two. They're ahead either way.

To top it off, they benefit from the social media buzz created by those 90%
who like, decide to keep and rave about the rig online. A few may even name
their firstborns Wayne and/or Eric. It's a win-win for all involved.

Few people who use/own one are dissatisfied with an E rig. This would
potentially increase the number of people within that pool.

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com

>The real problem with rental returns ("B Stock") is that is can
>no longer be sold as new resulting in a loss of value that is
>often more than the rental proceeds.
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Walter Underwood]

Seriously, this was my first thought. Set up a rig rental business that isn’t 
limited to Elecraft.
There is no reason that this has to be an Elecraft operation. A larger business 
might balance
sales profit vs rental profit and self-insure (think car leasing), but that 
isn’t necessary.

This would be like Hertz or Avis. Buy the rigs, rent them. Sell the used ones.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Feb 3, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Edward R Cole  wrote:
> 
> So one of you multi-millionaires might buy a dozen K4 and set up a rental 
> business.  Hmm?
> 
> Rent at month minimum period for 10% of value and have clause to recover any 
> damage.
> 
> They rent cars that way.  Of course they require the renter to have 
> full-coverage insurance.
> 
> So there is another business opportunity, selling insurance on ham radios.
> 
> Yes, of course, I am joking
> 
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>  http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
>  dubus...@gmail.com 
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Jim Brown]

On 2/3/2021 10:03 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

The real problem with rental returns ("B Stock") is that is can
no longer be sold as new resulting in a loss of value that is
often more than the rental proceeds.


Having worked in selling high value pro audio products, I can confirm 
that Joe is absolutely right. And Elecraft is a small company, has a 
backlog of orders that, thanks to their reputation, the effect of COVID 
on their workers, and their supply chain, they are taking much longer 
than expected to fulfill. Eric and Wayne are smart businessmen. Why 
would they do something that loses money?


73, JimK9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Jim Borowski]

John AE5X, Really, a business model? Think about what you just said?Let me put 
in perspective, I has taken almost 2 years trying to get the K4 out the door. 
It will at least 2 years for them to com up with a business model. ;-) Jim 
K9TFSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Edward R Cole]

So one of you multi-millionaires might buy a dozen K4 and set up a 
rental business.  Hmm?


Rent at month minimum period for 10% of value and have clause to 
recover any damage.


They rent cars that way.  Of course they require the renter to have 
full-coverage insurance.


So there is another business opportunity, selling insurance on ham radios.

Yes, of course, I am joking

73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Alan - G4GNX]

The deposit is usually to cover minor damage when an item is returned. 
It would have to be as high or higher than the cost to buy a new one, or 
the renter could be well out of pocket.


Most would-be renters would be unlikely to want to shell out $400+ as a 
deposit.


73,

Alan. G4GNX


-- Original Message --
From: "Eric Garner" 
To: "Elecraft list" 
Sent: 03/02/2021 17:44:43
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?


isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?

Eric KI7LTT

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX  wrote:



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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[David Gilbert]

This makes very little sense to me.  I can't see there being any way 
Elecraft could justify the risk and hassle of renting out their 
equipment.  Ask yourself this ... do you think you could make money 
buying a K4 and then renting it to other random hams you don't know?  
Would you be willing to take that kind of risk?  Think of the time it 
would take on your part to administer it.


I suppose, given the purported remote capability of the K4 using a free 
app (as opposed to a piece of dedicated hardware), somebody might be 
willing to offer remote access to a K4 in exchange for a modest fee.  In 
my opinion, if the K4 is as remotable as claimed then it should be 
mostly possible to evaluate it that way.   Even then I suspect that 
Elecraft wouldn't want the hassle of offering that ... maybe somebody 
else would.


Dave   AB7E



On 2/3/2021 10:20 AM, John Harper wrote:

I wonder if this model would work?

Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like it.
But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.

There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has begun:

What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
weeks?

If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).

If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.

The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com


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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[George Thornton]

I think Elecraft has enough on its hands with COVID 19 just getting these rigs 
designed, updated, built and shipped.  

I am not aware that any major manufacturer of HF amateur radio transceivers 
maintains an equipment rental program.

A rental program would be complex to administer.  You would have to deal with 
insurance, shipping concerns and complaints that inevitably are part of such a 
program.  Plus a legal team on hand to deal with problems that result from a 
rental experience gone bad.  The program would have significant staffing 
requirements.   I would think even if they were interested in offering this 
service, they have many more pressing concerns giving COVID 19.

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Eric Garner
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 9:45 AM
To: Elecraft list 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?

Eric KI7LTT

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX  wrote:

> I can't see that working.
>
> When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to 
> layout a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of 
> junk for their trouble.
>
> It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical 
> presence in all states.
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "John Harper" 
> To: "Elecraft list" 
> Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
> Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?
>
> >I wonder if this model would work?
> >
> >Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't 
> >like
> it.
> >But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
> >
> >There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, 
> >of course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production 
> >has
> begun:
> >
> >What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for 
> >two weeks?
> >
> >If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the 
> >rental fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
> >
> >If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
> >
> >The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those 
> >simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a 
> >rental fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
> >
> >John AE5X
> >https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> >
>
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> garn...@gmail.com
>


--
--Eric
_
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Grant Youngman]

Elecraft already has a reasonable return policy.  It’s on the website.  30 days 
and a 10% restock fee (which may be more if you’ve bunged it up), since they’d 
most likely at least have to clean off your fingerprints and lord knows what 
else, refurbish and then resell it at a discount.  And if you’ve run over it 
with a truck, dropped it in a river, or treated it to a dose of hamification, 
you’ll get your junked radio back instead of a refund.  PS — it doesn’t apply 
to kits that have been partially or entirely built.

If you buy one and don’t like it, it should be pretty easy to find potential 
buyers willing to throw money in your direction … 

Grant NQ5T

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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Mark Goldberg]

I can't see this as being a good business model. A company has finite
resources. If they spend time and money on a rental business, they
can't spend time and money on their core business. I'd much rather see
Elecraft build and ship as many K4s as possible than spend time and
money on a rental business. Add to that the possible fraud (rent with
a stolen credit card and abscond with the K4) and the need to fully
check out the unit after rental (people buy things on ebay, claim they
are broken and return a different, damaged item for a refund) they
would have to charge an exorbitant amount to not lose money.

If you really wanted to try one out, you could buy it, use it for a
while and then offer it for sale to someone else. With the K4 in such
demand, you may even be able to get more than list price for a gently
used one that can be purchased today.

73,

Mark
W7MLG

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 10:46 AM Eric Garner  wrote:
>
> isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?
>
> Eric KI7LTT
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX  wrote:
>
> > I can't see that working.
> >
> > When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to layout
> > a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of junk for
> > their trouble.
> >
> > It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical presence
> > in all states.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Alan. G4GNX
> >
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "John Harper" 
> > To: "Elecraft list" 
> > Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
> > Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?
> >
> > >I wonder if this model would work?
> > >
> > >Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like
> > it.
> > >But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
> > >
> > >There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
> > >course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has
> > begun:
> > >
> > >What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
> > >weeks?
> > >
> > >If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
> > >fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
> > >
> > >If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
> > >
> > >The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
> > >simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
> > >fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
> > >
> > >John AE5X
> > >https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> > >
> >
> > __
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> >
>
>
> --
> --Eric
> _
> Eric Garner
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

No, the deposit is typically for damage and/or late charges.
Deposits are generally nowhere near to the replacement cost
of expensive equipment.

The real problem with rental returns ("B Stock") is that is can
no longer be sold as new resulting in a loss of value that is
often more than the rental proceeds.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-02-03 12:44 PM, Eric Garner wrote:

isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?

Eric KI7LTT

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX  wrote:


I can't see that working.

When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to layout
a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of junk for
their trouble.

It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical presence
in all states.

73,

Alan. G4GNX


-- Original Message --
From: "John Harper" 
To: "Elecraft list" 
Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?


I wonder if this model would work?

Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like

it.

But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.

There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has

begun:


What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
weeks?

If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).

If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.

The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com



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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Henry Pollock - K4TMC]

John,

I like the idea!  It would be great to rent a K4 for a few weeks to see if
I want to replace my trusty K3+.

Better yet, it would be nice to get a K4 and K4HD at the same time!!

73,
Henry - K4TMC


On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 12:22 PM John Harper  wrote:

> I wonder if this model would work?
>
> Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like it.
> But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
>
> There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
> course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has begun:
>
> What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
> weeks?
>
> If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
> fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
>
> If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
>
> The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
> simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
> fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
>
> John AE5X
> https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Eric Garner]

isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?

Eric KI7LTT

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX  wrote:

> I can't see that working.
>
> When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to layout
> a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of junk for
> their trouble.
>
> It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical presence
> in all states.
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "John Harper" 
> To: "Elecraft list" 
> Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
> Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?
>
> >I wonder if this model would work?
> >
> >Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like
> it.
> >But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
> >
> >There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
> >course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has
> begun:
> >
> >What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
> >weeks?
> >
> >If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
> >fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
> >
> >If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
> >
> >The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
> >simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
> >fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
> >
> >John AE5X
> >https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> >
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Alan - G4GNX]

I can't see that working.

When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to layout 
a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of junk for 
their trouble.


It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical presence 
in all states.


73,

Alan. G4GNX


-- Original Message --
From: "John Harper" 
To: "Elecraft list" 
Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?


I wonder if this model would work?

Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like it.
But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.

There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has begun:

What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
weeks?

If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).

If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.

The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com



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[Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[John Harper]

I wonder if this model would work?

Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like it.
But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.

There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has begun:

What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
weeks?

If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).

If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.

The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
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Re: [Elecraft] Was the Jan 22 K4 demo recorded?

[Bill Frantz]

I believe it was. I seem to remember seeing the record light on in the Zoom 
window.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/23/21 at 10:36 AM, thedusty...@imaginarian.org (Rich NE1EE) wrote:

> 
> ~R~
> 72/73 de Rich NE1EE
> The Dusty Key
> On the banks of the Piscataqua

---
Bill Frantz| Truth and love must prevail  | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | over lies and hate.  | 150 Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com |   - Vaclav Havel | Peterborough, NH 03458

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[Elecraft] Was the Jan 22 K4 demo recorded?

[Rich NE1EE]

~R~
72/73 de Rich NE1EE
The Dusty Key
On the banks of the Piscataqua

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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K4] Delivery of the K4

[Wayne Burdick]

No kidding. Two of our most senior consulting engineers are recovering 
(fortunately) from Covid. (And as for living hell, the fires destroyed the 
homes of two other Elecraft engineers. They're both hoping to rebuild, though 
it's an arduous process.)

Wayne
"stayin' alive"...
N6KR


> On Jan 5, 2021, at 3:52 PM, Paul Van Dyke  wrote:
> 
> Considering that California is now the most infectious state in the United 
> States for Covid-19, I suspect the Eric and Wayne have their hands full just 
> being alive, and making sure their, friends, family, employees are staying 
> alive  they have been through going through living h*** for over a year.. 
> 
> Paul - KB9AVO 
> _._,_._,_
> Groups.io Links:
> You receive all messages sent to this group.
> 
> View/Reply Online (#1122) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This 
> Topic | New Topic
> Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [n...@elecraft.com]
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Re: [Elecraft] "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" manual now available

[Roy]

Excellent! I'm looking forward to generating many new synapses!

Roy,   K6XK

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft] "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" manual now available

[Edward R Cole]

Impressive.  I can see a lot of work went into this (I was a former 
tech writer for Hughes Aircraft 1968-71).  If I could afford it, I 
would be on board to order the K4D when the VHF/UHF modules are 
available.  My K3/10 (SN-4340) does well for me, though.


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" manual now available

[Lou W0FK]

My computer monitor has finger smudges on it now

Lou, W0FK



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Re: [Elecraft] "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" manual now available

[Buck]

First glance, it is really well done.  I love the yellow arrows and hate 
it when a manual says push the X button but you have no idea where the X 
button is.


Buck, k4ia
Honor Roll
8BDXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 9/24/2020 1:49 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

The first draft of "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" is now available, at:

   
https://ftp.elecraft.com/K4/Manuals%20Downloads/Introduction%20to%20the%20Elecraft%20K4,%20rev.%20A-7.pdf

This is a 40-page, full-color manual with dozens of illustrations highlighting the 
K4's user interface and features. The document's 8.5 x 14" form factor is 
uniquely suited to the K4, allowing illustrations to be virtually the same size as 
the front panel. A printed, spiral-bound copy of this manual will be included with 
the K4.

I'd like to thank those who volunteered to review this and other K4 
documentation, including our intrepid field testers. Additional input is always 
welcome. We'll be updating these documents as K4 software evolves.

73,
Wayne
N6KR





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Re: [Elecraft] "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" manual now available

[Tom Azlin W7SUA]

Very nice intro, thanks! de tom w7sua

On 9/24/2020 10:49 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

The first draft of "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" is now available, at:

   
https://ftp.elecraft.com/K4/Manuals%20Downloads/Introduction%20to%20the%20Elecraft%20K4,%20rev.%20A-7.pdf

This is a 40-page, full-color manual with dozens of illustrations highlighting the 
K4's user interface and features. The document's 8.5 x 14" form factor is 
uniquely suited to the K4, allowing illustrations to be virtually the same size as 
the front panel. A printed, spiral-bound copy of this manual will be included with 
the K4.

I'd like to thank those who volunteered to review this and other K4 
documentation, including our intrepid field testers. Additional input is always 
welcome. We'll be updating these documents as K4 software evolves.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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[Elecraft] "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" manual now available

[Wayne Burdick]

The first draft of "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" is now available, at:

  
https://ftp.elecraft.com/K4/Manuals%20Downloads/Introduction%20to%20the%20Elecraft%20K4,%20rev.%20A-7.pdf

This is a 40-page, full-color manual with dozens of illustrations highlighting 
the K4's user interface and features. The document's 8.5 x 14" form factor is 
uniquely suited to the K4, allowing illustrations to be virtually the same size 
as the front panel. A printed, spiral-bound copy of this manual will be 
included with the K4.

I'd like to thank those who volunteered to review this and other K4 
documentation, including our intrepid field testers. Additional input is always 
welcome. We'll be updating these documents as K4 software evolves.

73,
Wayne
N6KR





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[Elecraft] Separate Elecraft K3 and K4 Reflectors on Groups.IO

[James F. Boehner MD via Elecraft]

To all,

This thread could go on forever.  Some want a separate group, some do not.

The fact is it is up to the individual as to whether they want to
participate in a separate group, the main group (this one) or both.

The good part is that when Wayne and/or Eric have a special announcement,
they do make an effort to post on the Groups.IO reflectors.  I believe they
monitor the separate groups (elecraft...@groups.io and elecraft...@groups.io
, but I do not have confirmation on that.

The bad part is if you just participate in the separate group, you may miss
something.  If you participate in the main group, there are voluminous
e-mails that do not deal with your radio that you have to go through and
delete.

I have moderated the Elecraft-K3 list for over 10 years, and just signed on
to moderate the Elecraft-K4 list.  They do serve a purpose, and all are
welcome to join.

The lists are there, and should you wish to participate, you are certainly
welcome to do so.  The traffic on those lists will not be as voluminous as
this reflector, so joining both shouldn't max out your e-mail box.

'73 de JIM N2ZZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Peter Eijlander
(PA0PJE)
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 10:22 AM
To: John Bohnovic; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K4 info

>> I support having a separate K4 group.

I don't. I filter each Elecraft gear item in separate subfolders under a 
main folder called Elecraft.

The real problem with this is the shear lack of users of this list to 
mention the type of Elecraft gear they want to talk about.

Many users of the K3 for example, probably the most used  gear, think: 
"If I ask something about a setting of something everyone should know 
I'm talking about my K3", so they end up in the main folder and I have a 
hard time to get rid of these messages...

Messages from users of the digest that do not change the subject line:
Those messages are filtered straight to the trash... When I close 
Tunderbird the trash is emptied automaically.

If only we could stick to the RULE that one starts an item with the type 
of gear I would be very happy because the filter can take good care of this.

Please use the reflector and do not divert to yahoo/google/groups.io 
etc. Share information at one place, do not split it up.

73,
Peter - PA0PJE




Op 30-08-2020 om 14:53 schreef John Bohnovic:
> I can filter all of the Elecraft groups so that all of the messages from
> the different groups appear in one folder. I don't do that because I
> want them in separate folders.
> 
> I support having a separate K4 group.
> 
> 73..de John/K4WJ
> 
> On 8/29/2020 11:57 AM, Tom Azlin W7SUA wrote:
>> I like having all the Elecraft discussion on this reflector. I do not
>> consider any of it as tying up this one.
>>
>> Tom w7sua ( group 2 order for a K4, have the K-Line)
>>
>> On 8/26/2020 7:34 PM, Nr4c wrote:
>>> More likely this information will come from us as we announce the
>>> various stages of the delivery progress to the group on one of the
>>> reflectors, probably the K4 group so as not to tie up this one with a
>>> lot of traffic not of interest to the mass membership.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> ...nr4c. bill
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[Elecraft] WA6HHQ Update on Elecraft K4 SDR begins in 8 minutes at QSO Today Ham Expo

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

https://qsotoday.vfairs.com/en/hall#

Select Track 4.

A live Q session via Zoom link should appear at the end of the
presentation.

Recording should be available if you miss it.

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] Subject: Re: KPA1500 with K4 tracks VFOs with 1 kHz resolution

[Wayne Burdick]

Strictly firmware, Ed.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



> On Jul 23, 2020, at 1:33 PM, Ed G  wrote:
> 
> Hi Wayne,
> Will the future new KPA500 and KAT500 Auxbus protocol involve new 
> hardware interface revisions, or would this just be a firmware update?  I’m 
> thinking if hardware, it is perhaps best to wait just a bit for the amp and 
> tuner to be upgraded before buying?
> --Ed, N3CW—
> 
> 
> 
> --
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, at 1:52 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>> Those using a K4 transceiver with our KPA1500 amp will have the 
>>> advantage of +/- 1 kHz resolution in VFO tracking. In many stations, 
>>> this finer resolution will result in lower SWR and improved amplifier 
>>> performance, especially on the lower bands. (The original resolution 
>>> was +/- 8 kHz.)
>>> 
>>> This is part an overall upgrade of our Auxbus control interface, taking 
>>> advantage of the additional processing resources available in the K4. 
>>> The revised protocol allows for more robust RFI rejection, as well as 
>>> future enhancements to amp/tuner control. 
>>> 
>>> At present only the KPA1500 supports radio type K4, but we hope to add 
>>> this capability to the KPA500 and KAT500 in the near future.
>>> 
>>> All amps and tuners will continue to support the original Auxbus 
>>> protocol, remaining 100% compatible with our existing transceivers.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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[Elecraft] Subject: Re: KPA1500 with K4 tracks VFOs with 1 kHz resolution

[Ed G]

Hi Wayne,
 Will the future new KPA500 and KAT500 Auxbus protocol involve new hardware 
interface revisions, or would this just be a firmware update?  I’m thinking if 
hardware, it is perhaps best to wait just a bit for the amp and tuner to be 
upgraded before buying?
--Ed, N3CW—



--
On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, at 1:52 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> > Those using a K4 transceiver with our KPA1500 amp will have the 
> > advantage of +/- 1 kHz resolution in VFO tracking. In many stations, 
> > this finer resolution will result in lower SWR and improved amplifier 
> > performance, especially on the lower bands. (The original resolution 
> > was +/- 8 kHz.)
> > 
> > This is part an overall upgrade of our Auxbus control interface, taking 
> > advantage of the additional processing resources available in the K4. 
> > The revised protocol allows for more robust RFI rejection, as well as 
> > future enhancements to amp/tuner control. 
> > 
> > At present only the KPA1500 supports radio type K4, but we hope to add 
> > this capability to the KPA500 and KAT500 in the near future.
> > 
> > All amps and tuners will continue to support the original Auxbus 
> > protocol, remaining 100% compatible with our existing transceivers.
> > 
> > 73,
> > Wayne
> > N6KR







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[Elecraft] Ham Radio Workbench Podcast K4 Update Eric Swartz / Nov 5th

[M. George]

I searched through the Elecraft Archives and didn't see a reference to the
Ham Radio Workbench podcast where Eric gives an update on the K4 (published
on 11/4).  Not sure if there are any new tidbits that can't be found on the
other update sources / youtube etc, but I thought I would pass this along.
I believe this is the newest and latest interview with Eric as far as
details on the K4.  I hope it's not a duplicate post I missed...

https://www.hamradioworkbench.com/podcast/elecraft-k4-update#

Jump forward  to about 45 minutes in to get right to the point where the
interview with Eric starts.  The interview is right around 60 minutes long
and took place after the interview Eric did in the UK.

Max NG7M

-- 
M. George
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[Elecraft] Fwd: Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

[Wayne Burdick]

>> On Oct 21, 2019, at 2:13 PM, Dan Atchison via Groups.Io wrote:
>> 
>> Well, the weekend is over and I haven't seen any news or video on the dual 
>> panadapter.  Did I miss something either here or the K3/K3S reflector?
>> 
>> Dan -- N3ND


> From: "N6KR via Groups.Io" 
> 
> I can give you one take on it, Dan. We demonstrated the panadapter and 
> related features dozens of times, and it was clear from comments received 
> that we'd achieved our goal of making dual-pan both visually appealing and 
> easy to use. Hopefully someone else will weigh in with their own take on it.
> 
> Also recently updated and demonstrated at Pacificon:
> 
>  - method for selecting from up to five antennas per receiver
>   (3 ATU antennas, plus RX IN 1 and RX IN 2)
>  - transmit metering, with simultaneous presentation of RF out, SWR, ALC, and 
> compression
>  - unambiguous non-split/split TX indications
>  - date/time and other parametric display settings
>  - high-resolution mini-pan (re-decimates to as narrow as +/- 1 kHz for fine 
> tuning)
>  - new full-text menu system with per-parameter reset to factory value
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 


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[Elecraft] Proposed Software Option for K4 Waterfall

[David Gilbert]

I'd like to suggest a future capability for the K4 waterfall that I 
think should be feasible as a software mod:


1.  Be able to select a window on the panadapter screen using 
point/click with the mouse... i.e., a subset of the displayed spectrum 
that could be variable for both width and position.  For example, 2 KHz 
or 5 5 KHZ or 10 KHz window centered anywhere on the band, including 
from either receiver, or both receivers simultaneously.


2.  Change the waterfall to scroll from right to left below the spectrum 
display for only that subset window (or windows if from both receivers).


3.  Within reason, be able to adjust the rate of the waterfall(s), 
including the capability to pause/resume either one with either a button 
push on the K4 or a key press on a keyboard.


I used to have this same thing set up on my computer monitor by feeding 
the audio from my K3 into the sound card of my computer and running both 
AutoHotKey and VE3NEA's CW Skimmer in "audio mode" (3 KHz bandwidth), 
but with decoding turned off.   CW Skimmer has a very high resolution 
waterfall and it runs from right to left, and AutoHotKey allowed me to 
assign CW Skimmer's pause/resume to a couple of keyboard keys.  I could 
even run the audio from both receivers in separate windows since CW 
Skimmer can run multiple copies of itself.  The biggest problem with it, 
other than the hassle of setting it all up, was the monitor space 
required to run N1MM (both receivers) plus two long skinny windows of CW 
Skimmer.


The result is that if I missed a character or two of a callsign or 
report while running stations in a CW contest (distraction, room QRM, 
fumbled logging requiring a correction, me being a poor operator, 
whatever) I could hit the pause key (if needed) and visually read the 
dots/dashes of the character I missed, reading from left to right as 
many of us are used to.  The way I had everything set up with the CW 
Skimmer windows set to full width of the monitor, I could get about 8 
seconds of waterfall history, which is huge.  I only had to use it once 
in a while, but on those occasions it definitely saved me from having to 
ask for a repeat, and it didn't take me long to get used to visually 
decoding since I would mentally read the dots and dashes as dits and 
dahs.  I queried a couple of major contest committee members about the 
practice at the time and nobody could find fault with it under the 
rules.  After all, I'm still doing all the decoding.


I think the K4 could potentially implement this as a useful feature for 
CW contesters, and possibly even have benefit for DXers or others who 
might want to simply monitor activity on a different frequency without 
having to listen to it.  Reading left to right is far more natural than 
down-to-up, and the capability for several seconds of history is useful 
as well.


Comments appreciated.

73,
Dave   AB7E





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Re: [Elecraft] Possible option for the K4?

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

He never heard the gunshot.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 5/19/2019 8:50 AM, Joe wrote:

May I suggest the K4-Spousal-01 option for the K-4?

For an additional charge a $250 gift certificate would be included in 
the shipping box. The gift certificate would be made out to the 
spouse's name.  This gift certificate would be good at any retail store.


Upon receipt of the shipment, the owner would open the box in front of 
the spouse.  The gift certificate would be handed to the spouse.  If 
there is any conflict in the order, the spouse would be told that the 
radio would be returned, but would have to include the gift 
certificate in the return order.


Your thoughts?

73, Joe, K1ike
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[Elecraft] Possible option for the K4?

[Joe]

May I suggest the K4-Spousal-01 option for the K-4?

For an additional charge a $250 gift certificate would be included in 
the shipping box. The gift certificate would be made out to the spouse's 
name.  This gift certificate would be good at any retail store.


Upon receipt of the shipment, the owner would open the box in front of 
the spouse.  The gift certificate would be handed to the spouse.  If 
there is any conflict in the order, the spouse would be told that the 
radio would be returned, but would have to include the gift certificate 
in the return order.


Your thoughts?

73, Joe, K1ike
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[Elecraft] never mind a future K4.

[Jeffrey Otterson]

Wayne and everybody else,

What I like best about my K3s (plural not S version K3)  is that I have
been able to perform in-cabinet upgrades, e.g. synth, usb, xverter board
with VHF preamp...

I certainly hope we get a few more of those.  Perhaps the DSP and maybe RF
power stages?  How about adaptive pre-distortion to work with the sample
output on the KPA1500?

And since I am issuing my list of demands, I want a P3S (S as in letter) a
faceless P3 that only displays on an external computer monitor and is
controlled through the radio interface, attached mouse (including touch
screen displays) and/or keyboard all in a tiny box I can stuff behind the
radio.

Thanks for thinking about it.

Jeff n1kdo
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Re: [Elecraft] Touch screens for a K4?

[Drew AF2Z]

I guess I'm one of the touchscreen "negatories" but, yes, I have used a 
cellphone in the last 15 years. I've even used the Morse keyer app as a 
text input device, swiping between the dit and dah pads on the screen. 
Some things never get old...


I just hope touchscreen input is used sparingly on a K4; namely, only 
where it offers an operational advantage.


73,
Drew
AF2Z





On 05/05/19 18:43, Dr. William J. Schmidt wrote:

"The "jury" seems split on touch-screen or manual controls.  I suggest this
as a compromise".

  


Not that I'm a fan either. but one wonders how the staunch touch-screen
negatories cope with ever changing real world  like semi-modern (last 15
year+) cell phones (voting booths, car GPS interfaces, etc). or are we still
using the ever popular Motorola bag phones?

  

  




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[Elecraft] Touch screens for a K4?

[Dr. William J. Schmidt]

"The "jury" seems split on touch-screen or manual controls.  I suggest this
as a compromise".

 

Not that I'm a fan either. but one wonders how the staunch touch-screen
negatories cope with ever changing real world  like semi-modern (last 15
year+) cell phones (voting booths, car GPS interfaces, etc). or are we still
using the ever popular Motorola bag phones?

 

 



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Nicklas Johnson]

So basically a K3S :-D

The only thing I think it might be nice to see is a way for ALE (ie,
HFlink) to work/scan totally silently, which I guess would mean totally
diode-switched filters and a mode where the ATU could automatically be
bypassed during receive and enabled during transmit?  (the latter could
sort of be achieved today with the software sending the right commands of
course)

Cosmetically, the unit's display is starting to look & feel a little clunky
by 2019 standards, but this is such a minor thing.

But honestly the K3S has left me wanting for so little that it's somewhat
difficult for me to imagine altogether very many ways to improve it, though
I've only been operating with it about a year.

   Nick


On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 17:01, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Keep it modular.
> Keep the "basic unit" simple.
> Focus on performance, not bells and whistles.
> Keep the UI simple and direct, functional, not "cute."
> Remember that there's no "forever upward;" asymptotes do exist.
> Investigate how the price can be brought down [if at all] without
> sacrificing performance or company financial stability.
> Remember that while the K3'etc is a great radio, the company behind the
> radio is as great as the technical stuff. Nourish the company.
> Thanks for asking!
>
> ...robert
>
> > On 3/24/2019 5:14 PM, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
> >> Inquiring minds want to know:
> >> What would you all like to see as a ???K4??? ?
> >>
> >> Eric
> >> elecraft.com
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
> --
> Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
> rc...@verizon.net.usa
> Syracuse, New York, USA
> __
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-- 
*N6OL*
Saying something doesn't make it true.  Belief in something doesn't make it
real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not
worth supporting.
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Robert G Strickland via Elecraft]

Keep it modular.
Keep the "basic unit" simple.
Focus on performance, not bells and whistles.
Keep the UI simple and direct, functional, not "cute."
Remember that there's no "forever upward;" asymptotes do exist.
Investigate how the price can be brought down [if at all] without 
sacrificing performance or company financial stability.
Remember that while the K3'etc is a great radio, the company behind the 
radio is as great as the technical stuff. Nourish the company.

Thanks for asking!

...robert


On 3/24/2019 5:14 PM, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a ???K4??? ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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--
Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
rc...@verizon.net.usa
Syracuse, New York, USA
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Tom Azlin W7SUA]

Phase lock the synthesizer to the external 10 MHz reference.

73, tom w7sua

On 3/24/2019 5:14 PM, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Bill]

Bingo!!!  I used a Genovation for K3 control (placing the keypad beside 
me at the edge of my desk). Worked great - until the keypad quit. I 
reverted back to using HRD.


Then I got an IC-7300 with the touch screen and a stylus.  Moved the 
radio out on the desk so I can reach it easily (and lost desktop space). 
Good radio with lots of modern features and personalization choices. 
Then I reverted back using HRD (remember the lost desktop space?).


HRD can be somewhat customized as to what controls are on screen, but it 
is a one size fits all system. Hence, with the limited rig related 
customization it offers, it is not the end all rig control system - too 
much attention has been paid to digital, rotors, DXing, logging, etc.  
Not enough time spent on rig control.


Maybe I am the only person in the world solely interested in rig control 
software?


All that said, the idea of a full featured tablet-like remote control I 
can hold in my lap would just be GREAT!!! I just have to live long 
enough to see this happen.


Life is good at my shack - the snow is going away!

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Gary Smith]

A thought on touch screens.

I love them on my cell phone for the most 
part, very easy to use and all in the palm 
of my hand. Clever technology that is very 
freeing.

As to them on the radio, I have a 
different take; I'm getting old and I'm 
finding years after some accidents, two 
years on crutches when young, martial arts 
back when it was realistic, and activity 
generated arthritis in my shoulder has 
made it more uncomfortable to keep my arm 
extended with my wrist in an up position. 
I even find myself hurting after playing 
guitar for a couple hours, never 
experienced that till as of late. 

I fear using a touch screen would become 
uncomfortable after not too much active 
use. Perhaps if there were a remote tablet 
that could be on the desk instead of the 
touch screen on the radio, that might be 
more comfortable.

73,

Gary
KA1J

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Robert G Strickland via Elecraft]

Some thoughts on the K4...

Make/keep it modular. Start with a basic radio that provides an 
excellent electronic foundation for whatever builds on top of it. The 
model in this respect is the initial K3. This allows for flexibility in 
configuring a radio that can accommodate the different 
needs/desires/budgets in the ham community. It also provides for a 
manageable initial price with the cost of future "expansions" spread out 
over time.


By the way, "upgrade" makes the basic radio sound as if it's a dummied 
down version that needs more expensive stuff to make it worth while. 
"Extensions" sounds like what it is without short-sheeting the basic unit.


Resist the call to include every ham shack wire and gadget in the basic 
radio. Doing so compromises the "modular" criteria and ends up with an 
"all things for all people" radio that tends to satisfy hardly anyone. 
Not to mention cost of production and repair and the operating 
complexity that many hams will reject. Concerning this last point, 
remember all those who complain about the complexity of stacked menus.


Personally, I would not include touch screens. A touch screen for radio 
control seem to me to be an individual interest/appreciation that does 
not, by its self, increase radio usability and capability. Just because 
a technology can be applied to a given function does not mean that doing 
so will enhance that function. Of course, marketing issues can influence 
this decision. But note that contest stations, DX-peditions, and 
discerning operators do not seem to be put off by the simple, almost 
rudimentary UI of the K3-S. I would think that capability, extendability 
and packaging are the major selling points, not bells, whistles and 
cosmetics.


All that said, I'm confident that the Elecraft team will do the right 
thing, both for the health of the company and the enjoyment of the 
amateur radio community.


...robert



On 3/25/2019 12:25, Gordon LaPoint wrote:

I would love an SDR (I have an ANAN-10e) with a front panel and the
software for the computer, best of both worlds.  I have an Apache Labs
ANAN-7000 DLE Mk2 (without computer) on order, but would love to replace
that with the K4, that is full SDR with dual ADC's like the ANAN-7000.

I have a K2(10Watt) and a K3 (updated, but not USB module), KPA/KAP 500
combo and will keep all of the Elecraft equipment.

I love the bandscope that I can click on with the mouse and tune the
radio to a signal, the K4 needs a band scope on the computer screen when
used with a computer!

PureSignal on TX is now a must, get ahead of everyone, except the Apache
Labs radios.

Better noise reduction, (even the ANAN-10e has better)

CW as good as the K3, or better.

That is a good start, lets see what others come up with.

Gordon - N1MGO  (long time K3 user)

On 3/24/19 8:14 PM, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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--
Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
rc...@verizon.net.usa
Syracuse, New York, USA
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Hi Peter,

No problem.

We certainly love the input, but this volume of email quickly saturates a large 
number of our readers, so we try to keep it under control.


Of course, direct emails with suggestions to both of us are always welcome! :-)

73,
Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 3/26/2019 6:34 AM, Peter Hall wrote:

Eric,

I apologise for missing that mail but am amazed you'd want to shut down the 
discussion. But it's your sandpit!

Cheers,
Peter

Sent from my iPad



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Wayne Burdick]

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 1:15 PM, Charlie T  wrote:
> 
> Is this some sort of covert program to cut-off or, at the very least, slow 
> down the current K3s sales as more potential buyers are convinced to change 
> their minds and decide to wait for the K4 ?


Most definitely not! People are just offering suggestions, which are welcome at 
any time.


> Personally, at around six large for a loaded K3s, there's NO way I'm gonna 
> spend anywhere near twice that on a K4 radio regardless of WHAT it'll do.

Neither would I :)

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Charlie T]

Is this some sort of covert program to cut-off or, at the very least, slow down 
the current K3s sales as more potential buyers are convinced to change their 
minds and decide to wait for the K4 ?

Because it certainly SEEMS to me to be doing just that!

Personally, at around six large for a loaded K3s, there's NO way I'm gonna 
spend anywhere near twice that on a K4 radio regardless of WHAT it'll do.

73, Charlie k3ICH




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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Peter Hall]

Eric,

I apologise for missing that mail but am amazed you'd want to shut down the 
discussion. But it's your sandpit!

Cheers,
Peter

Sent from my iPad

> On 26 Mar 2019, at 10:32 pm, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> Folks - we closed this “Will there be a K4” thread yesterday.  In the 
> interest of relieving reader email overload from the large number of email 
> postings, let's let it rest for now.
> 
> 73, 
> Eric
> Mooderator
> elecraft.com
> _..._
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks - we closed this “Will there be a K4” thread yesterday.  In the interest 
of relieving reader email overload from the large number of email postings, 
let's let it rest for now.

73, 
Eric
Mooderator
elecraft.com
_..._

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Dave G3WGN M6O]

Nice list Ted.
I agree with all except a variation on numbers 4 and 6: I'm happy to have an
external computer for contest and everyday logging and for functionality
equivalent to K3 Utility. All else (digital modes, remote operation etc)
should be on-board.
73, David G3WGN M6O WJ6O
K2, KX3, K3, P3, W2...



Edward A. Dauer wrote
> Wow; there's a tantalizing post.
> 
> I'll leave the important technical suggestions to others.  Here's my list:
> 
> 1.  Seamless backwards compatibility with the KPA1500.  Without it, I
> don't buy a K4.  Likewise, though much less important, for the K-Pod.
> 
> 2.  Similar though not necessarily identical form factor to the K3 / K3s. 
> Existing investments in shack design have been built around the current
> equipment.
> 
> 3.  Built-in remoting.  Get rid of the RemoteRig dongles.
> 
> 4.  Whatever it takes, so far as possible, to make connecting any outboard
> computer to the rig unnecessary for any reason.
> 
> 5.  Upgrading from K3 to K4, as we had for upgrading from K3 to nearly
> K3s, would be nice but I wouldn't let it stand in the way of major design
> changes.
> 
> 6.  One tiny matter the absence of which has always just bugged me -- an
> internal contest QSO S/N counter for the internal memory CW keyer.
> 
> 7.  On-board panadapter.  Touch-sensitive screen is not all that
> desirable.  I much prefer soft keys.  Keeps the PBJ off the screen.
> 
> 8.  A kit version, as much as feasible.
> 
> 
> Ted, KN1CBR
> 
> 
>_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 
> 
>  From: 

> elecraft-bounces@.qth

>  

> elecraft-bounces@.qth

>  On Behalf Of Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15 PM
> To: Elecraft list 

> Elecraft@.qth

> 
>     Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know: 
> What would you all like to see as a ?K4? ? 
> 
> Eric
> elecraft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Larry Libsch]

Hi Eric,

         I own an early K3, early KAT500, early KPA500, and early
KPA1500. Each a great product with great documentation and customer
support. I now also own a  FLEX 6600. SDR is the future of radio. The P3
just is not state of the art, and it's poor value for its cost. Its
shortcomings are numerous and known. The Flex has DAX which vastly
decreases the complexity of connectivity and keeps ports organized. The
Flex panafall display puts most controls at your finger tips rather than
buried in menus. The Flex exploits other SDR capabilities: Multiple
bands can be displayed simultaneously. A single Flex can do SO2R. But
the Flex has many shortcomings compared to the K-line: Poor and
frequently outdated documentation. Marginal customer service. Features
like remote capability, integration with non-Flex software, and SO2R may
be more difficult to implement than their ads would lead you to believe.
Those lacking networking skills may be at a disadvantage.

         A great SDR radio with Flex- like capabilities in connectivity
and panafall display and function that also has Elecraft quality
documentation and customer support would move Elecraft back to
leadership in HF radios.

         I have not been able to part with my K3. We have too much
history. But I now operate with my Flex driving the KPA1500. I'd dump
the Flex  in a heartbeat if a K4 could match or beat Flex functions and
maintain Elecraft's current level of documentation and customer service.

  K4KGG, Larry

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Jim Brown]

On 3/24/2019 4:39 PM, John Stengrevics wrote:

Cardinal rule of business:  New products, new products, new products.


Also a great way to go out of biz, getting rolled over by much bigger 
companies with much higher volume. Wayne and Eric know their place in 
the ham market -- indeed, they have defined it!


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Richards]

RIGHT ON, Mr. Wayne  !! Good answer.

K8JHR



On 3/25/2019 9:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
Of course. But we’re not going to tell everyone about our secret 
fishing spots.


This particular pond just happens to be in a very public place. One 
where we get nibbles on every cast.


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[rich hurd WC3T]

Selfishly, that’s why I continued to study for the Extea Class.

Then I went and really blew it by becoming a MARS operator.   ;)

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 23:10 Byron Servies  wrote:

> I am that ham. Once or twice a year, in the heat of the chase and
> spinning the dial, I blow it, and hate myself for months after.
>
> The real solution is for me to finally bother to study for and pass
> Extra, but still, that would be a tremendous feature for other fools
> like me.
>
> 73, Byron N6NUL
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 7:13 PM Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:50 PM, Gary Peterson  wrote:
> > >
> > > In the past few years, I have thought of a couple of desirable
> features that should be fairly easy to implement in a modern transceiver
> ... being able to program “transmit enable” for the amateur bands with
> one’s license/frequency/mode privileges.  This would prevent someone with a
> general class license from transmitting LSB below 7178 or CW below 7025 in
> the 40 meter band.  After the general class licensee upgrades to extra
> class, the radio would prevent them from transmitting LSB, below 7128, for
> example.  Many times, I have heard amateurs accidentally transmitting
> outside their allocated sub-bands, in the “heat of the moment,” while
> chasing DX.
> >
> >
> > SMOP, just added to my personal wish-list. Thanks.
> >
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
> >
> >
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>
> --
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> - CU in the Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2019
> - www.cqp.org
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72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Byron Servies]

I am that ham. Once or twice a year, in the heat of the chase and
spinning the dial, I blow it, and hate myself for months after.

The real solution is for me to finally bother to study for and pass
Extra, but still, that would be a tremendous feature for other fools
like me.

73, Byron N6NUL

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 7:13 PM Wayne Burdick  wrote:
>
>
> > On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:50 PM, Gary Peterson  wrote:
> >
> > In the past few years, I have thought of a couple of desirable features 
> > that should be fairly easy to implement in a modern transceiver ... being 
> > able to program “transmit enable” for the amateur bands with one’s 
> > license/frequency/mode privileges.  This would prevent someone with a 
> > general class license from transmitting LSB below 7178 or CW below 7025 in 
> > the 40 meter band.  After the general class licensee upgrades to extra 
> > class, the radio would prevent them from transmitting LSB, below 7128, for 
> > example.  Many times, I have heard amateurs accidentally transmitting 
> > outside their allocated sub-bands, in the “heat of the moment,” while 
> > chasing DX.
>
>
> SMOP, just added to my personal wish-list. Thanks.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Kenneth P Alexander]

Repeat customers and customer loyalty are the foundations of any successful
business.  Their word of mouth recommendations are pure gold to any
manufacturer, so engaging them in these discussions costs little and pays
big dividends.

>From what I have read, many of the wish list items are features already
found on rigs from other manufacturers, so some of those bases are being
covered.

That said, polling non-owners is always worthwhile...maybe at hamfests if
you can keep the syncophants from crowding the table.

What would I like to see?  A K3s or a K4 are well beyond my means.  I'd
like an improved KX3:
1.  Dedicated audio inputs/outputs for digital modes.  Built in sound card.
2.  An ethernet port for easy internet remote control, including a way to
turn the the transceiver on and off, plus remote access to every other
function (I say this not knowing whether that's possible already now)
3.  A method of setting digital mode audio levels that doesn't leave the
operator wondering why the meters aren't working.
4.  Move further away from the mindset that your customers are hikers and
backpackers.  You serve them very well already.

If my theoretical KX3s grew to the size of a K2 that would not bother me.

73,

Ken Alexander (still VE3HLS)
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 08:08 Richards  wrote:

> Mr. Eric,  perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond ...
>
> To coin a phrase:   Ask not why some hams buy your radios - ask why all
> the others do not.
>
> Asking members of this group who are pleased with your products is
> misplaced.   Instead, you should poll those who recently purchased, or
> who contemplate purchasing, competing products. More hams purchase
> competing products than buy Elecraft gear,  so you should ask THEM
> why.   Disregard sycophantic owners who claim you make the only rig
> worth owning (even if that is true!) Disregard those who claim other
> manufacturers have lost touch with their customers, because that is
> simply not true.  Many well informed, qualified hams buy other brands
> for good reasons.   In any case, you should determine what induced them
> to eschew your products for theirs. Contrary to popular belief,  owning
> Brand X is not a sign of insanity!Contest guru K3LR has brand X
> radios in his big contest shack.  World famous Rob Sherwood NC0B has
> four of the latest Brand X radios and the latest Brand Y radio on his
> desk.   And they are pretty smart guys.   To increase market share, you
> must produce products that appeal to more buyers with money to spend.
> (I learned this is Business 101.)   ;-)
>
> That is just MY take ... you make the call. K8JHR
>
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>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Wayne Burdick]

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:50 PM, Gary Peterson  wrote:
> 
> In the past few years, I have thought of a couple of desirable features that 
> should be fairly easy to implement in a modern transceiver ... being able to 
> program “transmit enable” for the amateur bands with one’s 
> license/frequency/mode privileges.  This would prevent someone with a general 
> class license from transmitting LSB below 7178 or CW below 7025 in the 40 
> meter band.  After the general class licensee upgrades to extra class, the 
> radio would prevent them from transmitting LSB, below 7128, for example.  
> Many times, I have heard amateurs accidentally transmitting outside their 
> allocated sub-bands, in the “heat of the moment,” while chasing DX.


SMOP, just added to my personal wish-list. Thanks.

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Wayne Burdick]

Me either.

Wayne

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 7:02 PM, Doug Person  wrote:
> 
> If the FT8 program is running on a separate "loosely coupled" computer that 
> is internal, I don't see a problem.
> 
> Doug --KJ0F



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Doug Person]

If the FT8 program is running on a separate "loosely coupled" computer 
that is internal, I don't see a problem.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 3:59 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
Ummm ... I think there are two issues here: The algorithms, coding, 
and modulation schemes for transmitting and receiving what has come to 
be known as FT8, and separately, the source code to implement all of 
that.  The second is subject to the terms of the GPL V3 license, the 
first would not seem to be.  So, all Elecraft would have to do is 
re-invent the WSPR-X FT8 their own proprietary way for whatever 
processor they use.  Just a few lines of code, should take about a 
week. :-)


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 3/25/2019 12:38 PM, Doug Person wrote:
Even if it's just an application installed into an integrated 
computer? This would not be folding the source into other code. It's 
just installing it into a computer that happens to be inside another 
device. It wouldn't be firmware. It would be the same as when I run 
it on my Raspberry Pi.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 12:01 PM, Neil Zampella wrote:
FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General 
Public

License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could 
incorporate

GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the 
firmware.


Neil, KN3iLZ



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Kevin der Kinderen]

(I learned this is Business 101.)   ;-)

Let us know how you do in Business 102.



[kidding, couldn't resist]

73,
Kev K4VD

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 9:08 PM Richards  wrote:

> Mr. Eric,  perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond ...
>
> To coin a phrase:   Ask not why some hams buy your radios - ask why all
> the others do not.
>
> Asking members of this group who are pleased with your products is
> misplaced.   Instead, you should poll those who recently purchased, or
> who contemplate purchasing, competing products. More hams purchase
> competing products than buy Elecraft gear,  so you should ask THEM
> why.   Disregard sycophantic owners who claim you make the only rig
> worth owning (even if that is true!) Disregard those who claim other
> manufacturers have lost touch with their customers, because that is
> simply not true.  Many well informed, qualified hams buy other brands
> for good reasons.   In any case, you should determine what induced them
> to eschew your products for theirs. Contrary to popular belief,  owning
> Brand X is not a sign of insanity!Contest guru K3LR has brand X
> radios in his big contest shack.  World famous Rob Sherwood NC0B has
> four of the latest Brand X radios and the latest Brand Y radio on his
> desk.   And they are pretty smart guys.   To increase market share, you
> must produce products that appeal to more buyers with money to spend.
> (I learned this is Business 101.)   ;-)
>
> That is just MY take ... you make the call. K8JHR
>
> _
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Wayne Burdick]

Of course. But we’re not going to tell everyone about our secret fishing spots. 

This particular pond just happens to be in a very public place. One where we 
get nibbles on every cast. 

73,
Wayne
N6KR


elecraft.com

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 6:07 PM, Richards  wrote:
> 
> Mr. Eric,  perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond ...
> 
> To coin a phrase:   Ask not why some hams buy your radios - ask why all the 
> others do not.
> 
> Asking members of this group who are pleased with your products is misplaced. 
>   Instead, you should poll those who recently purchased, or who contemplate 
> purchasing, competing products. More hams purchase competing products than 
> buy Elecraft gear,  so you should ask THEM why.   Disregard sycophantic 
> owners who claim you make the only rig worth owning (even if that is true!) 
> Disregard those who claim other manufacturers have lost touch with their 
> customers, because that is simply not true.  Many well informed, qualified 
> hams buy other brands for good reasons.   In any case, you should determine 
> what induced them to eschew your products for theirs. Contrary to popular 
> belief,  owning Brand X is not a sign of insanity!Contest guru K3LR has 
> brand X radios in his big contest shack.  World famous Rob Sherwood NC0B has 
> four of the latest Brand X radios and the latest Brand Y radio on his desk.   
> And they are pretty smart guys.   To increase market share, you must produce 
> products that appeal to more buyers with money to spend.   (I learned this is 
> Business 101.)   ;-)
> 
> That is just MY take ... you make the call. K8JHR
> 
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Richards]

Mr. Eric,  perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond ...

To coin a phrase:   Ask not why some hams buy your radios - ask why all 
the others do not.


Asking members of this group who are pleased with your products is 
misplaced.   Instead, you should poll those who recently purchased, or 
who contemplate purchasing, competing products. More hams purchase 
competing products than buy Elecraft gear,  so you should ask THEM 
why.   Disregard sycophantic owners who claim you make the only rig 
worth owning (even if that is true!) Disregard those who claim other 
manufacturers have lost touch with their customers, because that is 
simply not true.  Many well informed, qualified hams buy other brands 
for good reasons.   In any case, you should determine what induced them 
to eschew your products for theirs. Contrary to popular belief,  owning 
Brand X is not a sign of insanity!    Contest guru K3LR has brand X 
radios in his big contest shack.  World famous Rob Sherwood NC0B has 
four of the latest Brand X radios and the latest Brand Y radio on his 
desk.   And they are pretty smart guys.   To increase market share, you 
must produce products that appeal to more buyers with money to spend.   
(I learned this is Business 101.)   ;-)


That is just MY take ... you make the call. K8JHR

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks - Let's end the "Will there be a K4?" , "Touchscreen" and related threads 
now. Very interesting suggestions and comments, but we are wy past the 
reasonable number of allowed posts on a topic :-) .


I was tied up most of the day here and just now got back on reading my email.   
Wow!


We apologize for those overloaded by the flood of emails.

-threads closed-

73,
Eric
Moderator and all sorts of other duties at..
/elecraft.com/

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Richard Eversole]

Touch screens on something in the K3 form factor are of little use...
Also own 7100 and that screen is troublesome to use and makes me wish I had
gone with K3X and another separate 2m/440

FT8 mode would mean many firmware updates plus not clear how you get all
the useful display information... it would just be trouble and not really
worth it in the radio. Unlike PSK or RTTY where it is more obvious which
signal is being worked... the flexible channel like behavior is just too
much for the radio form factor... I like big screens and I just cant deny


Rick "The Rhino" N6RNO
@San Benito October 6-7 2018
Where will you be?

http://www.cqp.org


On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 3:12 PM Jim Brown  wrote:

> On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:
> > I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular
> idea.
>
> I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's
> modes have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's
> trivially easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control
> the radio from the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R
> switching.
>
> I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.
>
> And I have no interest in a touch screen.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Edward R Cole]

Page Two: of my K4 ideas.

After writing my last post on this topic, it dawned on me the K3 
architecture already uses a separate screen box which is the P3.  So 
just expand that to being a touch screen controller with P3 
embedded.  Then its a option for those that want one.  Main radio 
remains with buttons and knobs and LCD screen which works 
independently, if desired, or with Touchscreen if desired.  The new 
touchscreen/p3 would make a nice remote rig controller.  So 
interconnect with some kind of IP connection (ethernet, I 
suppose).  I'm not a computer guy so leave details to others.  Could 
such a "critter" work with my K3?


Maybe the two units could couple together mechanically to make a 
single radio unit for those that want that.


One of the deciding factors for me choosing the K3 over the existing 
Flex radio (in 2010) was having a real VFO knob and physical controls.


I currently have a 7-inch color-LCD touchscreen in use with a 
Rasp-Pi3 for controlling antenna tracking.  Fortunately does not 
require frequent touching as my fat fingers do not do well with 
it.  I guess I need a stylus which is another thing to get lost on my 
messy radio table.


Frankly, my upgraded-K3 is fully satisfactory for me.  My home 
station is a jungle of wiring but lets me configure as I want.

details: http://www.kl7uw.com/

73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Bill Johnson]

How about built-in network remote capability with KPA1500?

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Dauer, Edward
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 9:13 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

Wow; there's a tantalizing post.

I'll leave the important technical suggestions to others.  Here's my list:

1.  Seamless backwards compatibility with the KPA1500.  Without it, I don't buy 
a K4.  Likewise, though much less important, for the K-Pod.

2.  Similar though not necessarily identical form factor to the K3 / K3s.  
Existing investments in shack design have been built around the current 
equipment.

3.  Built-in remoting.  Get rid of the RemoteRig dongles.

4.  Whatever it takes, so far as possible, to make connecting any outboard 
computer to the rig unnecessary for any reason.

5.  Upgrading from K3 to K4, as we had for upgrading from K3 to nearly K3s, 
would be nice but I wouldn't let it stand in the way of major design changes.

6.  One tiny matter the absence of which has always just bugged me -- an 
internal contest QSO S/N counter for the internal memory CW keyer.

7.  On-board panadapter.  Touch-sensitive screen is not all that desirable.  I 
much prefer soft keys.  Keeps the PBJ off the screen.

8.  A kit version, as much as feasible.


Ted, KN1CBR


   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 

 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15 PM
To: Elecraft list 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

Inquiring minds want to know: 
What would you all like to see as a ?K4? ? 

Eric
elecraft.com




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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[W2xj]

It is easy to run FT8 or other digital modes on a Raspberry PI. Very 
inexpensive and very small. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 6:11 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>> On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:
>> I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.
> 
> I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's modes 
> have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's trivially 
> easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control the radio from 
> the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R switching.
> 
> I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.
> 
> And I have no interest in a touch screen.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Jim Brown]

On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:

I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.


I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's 
modes have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's 
trivially easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control 
the radio from the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R 
switching.


I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.

And I have no interest in a touch screen.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Fred Jensen]

Ummm ... I think there are two issues here: The algorithms, coding, and 
modulation schemes for transmitting and receiving what has come to be 
known as FT8, and separately, the source code to implement all of that.  
The second is subject to the terms of the GPL V3 license, the first 
would not seem to be.  So, all Elecraft would have to do is re-invent 
the WSPR-X FT8 their own proprietary way for whatever processor they 
use.  Just a few lines of code, should take about a week. :-)


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 3/25/2019 12:38 PM, Doug Person wrote:
Even if it's just an application installed into an integrated 
computer? This would not be folding the source into other code. It's 
just installing it into a computer that happens to be inside another 
device. It wouldn't be firmware. It would be the same as when I run it 
on my Raspberry Pi.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 12:01 PM, Neil Zampella wrote:

FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Raymond Sills via Elecraft]

Hi Neil:
I haven't read the fine print of the various software licenses, but it seems to 
me that FT8 is a "digital mode" and it might possibly be able to generate FT8 
compatible reception and transmission in multiple ways.Or, it might be possible 
to include a tiny linux computer inside a K4, into which you can load the FT8 
software, so it would always be in it's own universe... and not part of the 
radio's OS.
I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.  
Having said that, I'm pretty much a CW guy now... although I find it fun to be 
able to send and receive RTTY and PSK31 with my KX3.
73 de RayK2ULRKX3 #211FN20kg


-Original Message-
From: Neil Zampella 
To: elecraft 
Sent: Mon, Mar 25, 2019 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ


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[Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Gary Peterson]

In the past few years, I have thought of a couple of desirable features that 
should be fairly easy to implement in a modern transceiver:

First, a “back” or “undo” button, not unlike an Internet browser.  Each press 
would undo the previous control change.  This could eliminate the pregnant 
pause that follows a “fat-finger” or “oops,” while trying to figure out what 
the heck I just did that put the radio in a less-than-desirable condition.  
Being able to quickly undo the last three or four button presses would be 
really neat.

Second, being able to program “transmit enable” for the amateur bands with 
one’s license/frequency/mode privileges.  This would prevent someone with a 
general class license from transmitting LSB below 7178 or CW below 7025 in the 
40 meter band.  After the general class licensee upgrades to extra class, the 
radio would prevent them from transmitting LSB, below 7128, for example.  Many 
times, I have heard amateurs accidentally transmitting outside their allocated 
sub-bands, in the “heat of the moment,” while chasing DX.

Gary, KØCX  

“Inquiring minds want to know: 
What would you all like to see as a ?K4? ?
Eric
elecraft.com”
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Doug Person]

Even if it's just an application installed into an integrated computer? 
This would not be folding the source into other code. It's just 
installing it into a computer that happens to be inside another device. 
It wouldn't be firmware. It would be the same as when I run it on my 
Raspberry Pi.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 12:01 PM, Neil Zampella wrote:

FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ

On 3/25/2019 11:57 AM, Doug Person wrote:

I think you misunderstand open source. Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 7:37 AM, rich hurd WC3T wrote:

"integrated FT8" will never happen.  If I'm not mistaken, FT8 is open
source and incorporating that software with its licensing requirements
could expose Elecraft to all sorts of exposure; as their software is 
NOT

open-source.

At least I believe I read that somewhere.   That's my belief. Sort of
the same reason HRD or other licensed, closed-source apps do not
incorporate FT8 or any of those derivatives into their software.   They
simply can't.



On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 1:08 AM Martin Sole  wrote:


Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few
things, though in no particular order of merit:

Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.

‘Proper’ band stacking registers.

Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.

Individual mode buttons.

AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.

More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable
software as
digi modes develop.

Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.

50V minimum PA.

Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.

Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.

Bigger rotary controls with more space.

RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.

Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.

PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU
(KPA500/KAT500).

I/Q output.

Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is
already the leader there).

More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio
can do from a computer.

Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head
used from where you need to be.

More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).


Martin, HS0ZED




On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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---
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--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Richard Lamont]

On 25/03/2019 00:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

> Inquiring minds want to know: 
> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Something like the Flex / Anan SDRs, but with RX performance to match
the K3S. So maybe a 24-bit direct-sampling SDR, if such a thing is even
possible, with a open-source cross-platform application to drive it.
(For me, Windows = showstopper.)

73,
Richard G4DYA

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Jim Brown]

On 3/25/2019 6:15 AM, Morgan Bailey wrote:

SO2R with out ground loop problems ..or Rock solid SO2R solution...for k3s
or other radios. I have the MK2R+ and I want a better solution.


Simple solution -- implement proper bonding in your station. Described here

http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf

and in N0AX's recent ARRL book on the topic.

73, Jim K9YC

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