Re: [h-cost] OT regional english for mangle
Ah, Sharon - I missed the early part of that thread, and came into it when the confusion between Uk and USA perceptions, combined with an obvious eneration gap, - showed up in people's comments Cordially, Julian --- On Sat, 23/1/10, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote: From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT regional english for mangle To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Date: Saturday, 23 January, 2010, 2:25 Yes, I knew the water wringer type of mangle is period, as it is hand powered. I was not aware there was an electric-ironing type. My original problem with the entire piece, was that in the book, the guy said that you would run the clothes through a mangle AFTER ironing! It was meant to be a funny notice of a guy writing about something of which he obviously knew little. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of julian wilson Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 3:33 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT regional english for mangle Well, Sharon, the cast-iron-framed mangle one saw in so many households when I was a small boy, used for squeezing excess water from clothes - was a design that went back to the Victorian Era - and it wouldn't surprise me at all if - in examining the catalogue for the Great Exhibition of 1851, one found an ancestor of that machine being shown by some enterprising Midlands Manufacturer. The machines were so well-designed, and so strongly and simply built, that they would survive for a very long time indeed. Cordially, Julian Wilson --- On Mon, 18/1/10, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote: From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT regional english for mangle To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Date: Monday, 18 January, 2010, 23:25 I just realized-the book I'm reading was for the mid 1800's, so an electric ironer would have been impossible! I was correct when I assumed he was incorrect when talking about the 2 roller thing (mangle or wringer) being used to iron clothes. It WAS for wringing out the water and he got it wrong. My point was that he should have done his homework before putting erroneous information into his book. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of julian wilson Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 10:40 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] OT regional english for mangle Ok, Guys and Gals, there is obviously a terminology divide between the UK and the USA, as well as a Time divide here. May I put in a comments from an ageing Britisher? Most of you who remember an ironing mangle being used by your female relatives seem to have grown-up in the USA, post WW2 - quite a long way after, at that. I'm 72 yrs old, and I grew-up in SE England during and after WW2, in a middle-class family that was fairly prosperous by English social standards of the Time. We lived in a garden suburb of Southend, which had been developed from Southchurch farmland . Dad and MUm had bought a newly-built, 3-bedroomed semi-detached house when they married in 1934. At that time, Dad had the second motorcar in the 750yds-long Marlborough Road. Mum had a brand-new Frigidaire when they moved-in to their new house in 1934, and a brand-new kitchen cooker fuelled by coalgas. Their telephone number was Southend 576 - this in a seaside holiday town of around 100,00 residents. She had an upright Hoover vacuum cleaner, an electric Singer sewing machine, - and was the envy of most of her female neighbours because she had these houswork aids.. But she did her washing in a galvanised tin tub, and used a dolly agitator, and a washboard; and her ironing with a series of flat-irons heated on the kitchen gas-stove. Just as her own Mum had done and still did in my Aunt's house a half-mile away. Mum got her first electric iron - from the E.K. Cole Factory out near Rochford, - when my brother was born in 1945. I well remember my safety briefing! about that, because most of my schoolfriend's Mothers were still doing their ironing with flat-irons heated on their own kitchen stoves/cookers A nd Mum's first elecrtically-run washing machine, [an American import which cost Dad a lot of money in the Southend Gas. Light, Coke Co,. Showrooms] - was bought for her Birthday in 1948 - and didn't have what you Americans call a wringer. She had to wait for one of those until 1953, Coronation Year. She then sold her first upright-tub washing machine pre-owned to a neighbour for more than Dad had paid for it 5 years earlier, because electric washing machines were still the exception rather than the Rule within our local circle of middle-class neighbours. Now I tell you all this, because most of your comments seem to relate to a rather later and more prosperous America [than post-war Britain] - where such domestic domestic white-goods were more readily available
[h-cost] OT regional english for mangle
Ok, Guys and Gals, there is obviously a terminology divide between the UK and the USA, as well as a Time divide here. May I put in a comments from an ageing Britisher? Most of you who remember an ironing mangle being used by your female relatives seem to have grown-up in the USA, post WW2 - quite a long way after, at that. I'm 72 yrs old, and I grew-up in SE England during and after WW2, in a middle-class family that was fairly prosperous by English social standards of the Time. We lived in a garden suburb of Southend, which had been developed from Southchurch farmland . Dad and MUm had bought a newly-built, 3-bedroomed semi-detached house when they married in 1934. At that time, Dad had the second motorcar in the 750yds-long Marlborough Road. Mum had a brand-new Frigidaire when they moved-in to their new house in 1934, and a brand-new kitchen cooker fuelled by coalgas. Their telephone number was Southend 576 - this in a seaside holiday town of around 100,00 residents. She had an upright Hoover vacuum cleaner, an electric Singer sewing machine, - and was the envy of most of her female neighbours because she had these houswork aids.. But she did her washing in a galvanised tin tub, and used a dolly agitator, and a washboard; and her ironing with a series of flat-irons heated on the kitchen gas-stove. Just as her own Mum had done and still did in my Aunt's house a half-mile away. Mum got her first electric iron - from the E.K. Cole Factory out near Rochford, - when my brother was born in 1945. I well remember my safety briefing! about that, because most of my schoolfriend's Mothers were still doing their ironing with flat-irons heated on their own kitchen stoves/cookers A nd Mum's first elecrtically-run washing machine, [an American import which cost Dad a lot of money in the Southend Gas. Light, Coke Co,. Showrooms] - was bought for her Birthday in 1948 - and didn't have what you Americans call a wringer. She had to wait for one of those until 1953, Coronation Year. She then sold her first upright-tub washing machine pre-owned to a neighbour for more than Dad had paid for it 5 years earlier, because electric washing machines were still the exception rather than the Rule within our local circle of middle-class neighbours. Now I tell you all this, because most of your comments seem to relate to a rather later and more prosperous America [than post-war Britain] - where such domestic domestic white-goods were more readily available. The UK situation just post-War was that - for a very long time, in postWar Britain, - the Middle-Classes just could buy those US-made machines, - because US imports were heavily restricted. And what made THAT more frustrating for our family was that my Aunt mercia's husband was a typographer working for Cunard aboard the 2 Queens and the Caronia on the recently re-instated Transatlantic Services, - and would bring home every month [ amongst other things from the USA] - nylons and American cigarettes for my Aunt and his sisters-in-law, - the occasional US-made toy and Marvell Family Comic books for me; - and the latest Saturday Evening Posts with those wonderful Norman Rockwell Covers, - full of adverts for things to make the American Housewife's life easier - things which were simply unobtainable in Britain because private persons just couldn't obtain Import Permits. In that context, - I doubt that any Brit just post-War - outside a major UK Tourist Hotel's Laundry Room - ever saw what you call an ironing mangle And a Hotel Chain would have needed to obtain a series of Import Permits from the Ministry of Supply for such things up till the late 1950's - - which they would have only gotten through being involved in the Tourist Trade which brought in much-needed Dollars from US Tourists and Service personnel.. So - in this discussion about what the word mangle represents, - there is a Geographic - and a Time - divide - on each side of the North Atlantic; - as well as what I suppose to be the different US experiences between those commentators from rural and City America backgrounds. Speaking from my own lifetime experiences, I'd say that very few British households - even in the relatively properous South around London - would have been able to afford an electric upright-tub-washing machine with a wringer mounted on the rim before the mid-1950's. And my wife and I married over 45 years ago, but it was another 5 years before I was able to give her a rotary iron - which I obtained second-hand from a Hotel which was about to be demolished. Until then, I used to insist that - as she was a Nurse working full-time on shift-duties - she was to send all of our heavy weekly washing out to the local Besco Laundry in St. Helier - they did a collection and delivery service, which was very popular with local households where both parents worked.. Cordially, Julian Wilson
Re: [h-cost] OT regional english for mangle
Well, Sharon, the cast-iron-framed mangle one saw in so many households when I was a small boy, used for squeezing excess water from clothes - was a design that went back to the Victorian Era - and it wouldn't surprise me at all if - in examining the catalogue for the Great Exhibition of 1851, one found an ancestor of that machine being shown by some enterprising Midlands Manufacturer. The machines were so well-designed, and so strongly and simply built, that they would survive for a very long time indeed. Cordially, Julian Wilson --- On Mon, 18/1/10, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote: From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT regional english for mangle To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Date: Monday, 18 January, 2010, 23:25 I just realized-the book I'm reading was for the mid 1800's, so an electric ironer would have been impossible! I was correct when I assumed he was incorrect when talking about the 2 roller thing (mangle or wringer) being used to iron clothes. It WAS for wringing out the water and he got it wrong. My point was that he should have done his homework before putting erroneous information into his book. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of julian wilson Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 10:40 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] OT regional english for mangle Ok, Guys and Gals, there is obviously a terminology divide between the UK and the USA, as well as a Time divide here. May I put in a comments from an ageing Britisher? Most of you who remember an ironing mangle being used by your female relatives seem to have grown-up in the USA, post WW2 - quite a long way after, at that. I'm 72 yrs old, and I grew-up in SE England during and after WW2, in a middle-class family that was fairly prosperous by English social standards of the Time. We lived in a garden suburb of Southend, which had been developed from Southchurch farmland . Dad and MUm had bought a newly-built, 3-bedroomed semi-detached house when they married in 1934. At that time, Dad had the second motorcar in the 750yds-long Marlborough Road. Mum had a brand-new Frigidaire when they moved-in to their new house in 1934, and a brand-new kitchen cooker fuelled by coalgas. Their telephone number was Southend 576 - this in a seaside holiday town of around 100,00 residents. She had an upright Hoover vacuum cleaner, an electric Singer sewing machine, - and was the envy of most of her female neighbours because she had these houswork aids.. But she did her washing in a galvanised tin tub, and used a dolly agitator, and a washboard; and her ironing with a series of flat-irons heated on the kitchen gas-stove. Just as her own Mum had done and still did in my Aunt's house a half-mile away. Mum got her first electric iron - from the E.K. Cole Factory out near Rochford, - when my brother was born in 1945. I well remember my safety briefing! about that, because most of my schoolfriend's Mothers were still doing their ironing with flat-irons heated on their own kitchen stoves/cookers A nd Mum's first elecrtically-run washing machine, [an American import which cost Dad a lot of money in the Southend Gas. Light, Coke Co,. Showrooms] - was bought for her Birthday in 1948 - and didn't have what you Americans call a wringer. She had to wait for one of those until 1953, Coronation Year. She then sold her first upright-tub washing machine pre-owned to a neighbour for more than Dad had paid for it 5 years earlier, because electric washing machines were still the exception rather than the Rule within our local circle of middle-class neighbours. Now I tell you all this, because most of your comments seem to relate to a rather later and more prosperous America [than post-war Britain] - where such domestic domestic white-goods were more readily available. The UK situation just post-War was that - for a very long time, in postWar Britain, - the Middle-Classes just could buy those US-made machines, - because US imports were heavily restricted. And what made THAT more frustrating for our family was that my Aunt mercia's husband was a typographer working for Cunard aboard the 2 Queens and the Caronia on the recently re-instated Transatlantic Services, - and would bring home every month [ amongst other things from the USA] - nylons and American cigarettes for my Aunt and his sisters-in-law, - the occasional US-made toy and Marvell Family Comic books for me; - and the latest Saturday Evening Posts with those wonderful Norman Rockwell Covers, - full of adverts for things to make the American Housewife's life easier - things which were simply unobtainable in Britain because private persons just couldn't obtain Import Permits. In that context, - I doubt that any Brit just post-War - outside a major UK Tourist Hotel's Laundry Room - ever saw what you call an ironing mangle And a Hotel Chain would have needed
Re: [h-cost] The term hennin
Ladies - try medieval Flemish or Breton for a source. Just a suggestion. Julain Wilson --- On Mon, 18/1/10, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote: From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The term hennin To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Date: Monday, 18 January, 2010, 23:31 My French dictionaries say henne (should have an accent on the second E) means henna, while hennir means to neigh or whinny (like a horse). Don't know if that helps at all. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 2:08 PM To: Historic Costume List Subject: [h-cost] The term hennin I've been asked about the origins of the word hennin, commonly used today for a range of 15th-century tall headdresses. I was surprised that the OED doesn't trace it back any further than the 19th c., but the OED is notoriously bad with clothing terminology, and I don't have access at the moment to the MED. Does anyone have anything more concrete -- either an MED reference, or any citation to an actual 15th c. inventory or other document that uses the term? The person who asked me was taught (quite some time ago) that it was a derogatory term used to criticize women's headdresses, but I am skeptical of the story she was told. However, it's certainly not unprecedented for 18th and 19th c. costume historians to pick up the wrong word from historical references and establish it as the going term for a garment, or to make up a term that gets entrenched in the literature. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Washing, irioning, and running repairs - was an amusing error
On Sun, 17/1/10, Charlene Charette charlene...@gmail.com wrote: Mangle is the British term for what Americans call a wringer. On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 3:03 AM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote: I am reading a book, What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew SNIPPED FOR BREVITY rolled the clothing until it was pressed. I would hate to have him doing my laundry! cOMMENT Members of the List Several English, Victorian/Edwardian-era preserved Great Houses from the 19th and early 20th Centuries cared for by the National Trust in the S of England have an entire sdection of the below-stairs rooms dedicated to the care and cleaning of clothes, and soft furnishings.. I've visited one where a whole stable-like building - only a few steps across a cobbled yard from the Servants' Entrance - has the ground floor dedicated to the entire operation, in appropriate sections. Boiler room, washing room with lots of tubs and early agitation devices, mangling room complete with several mangles, drying room with indoor lines, ironing room, - and sewing room with treadle-operated sewing machines. The Upper floor of the same building was servant's bedrooms. Castle Drogo, built after 1900 as the last Castle-build in England - also has a similar section of the support facilities . Julian Wilson, in old Jersey, National Trust Member --- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Washing, irioning, and running repairs - was an amusing error
--- On Sun, 17/1/10, R Lloyd Mitchell rmitch...@staff.washjeff.edu wrote: Mangle is a rotary iron usually used for table linens and other 'flat' items.? A Wringer COMMENT Dear Mr Mitchell, if you look at http://victorians.swgfl.org.uk/themes/personal_health/mangleobj.htm# there you'll see what the Victorians and Edwardians called a mangle. My Grandma, [born in 1875, and died 1958], had one just like the one shown in the colour picture at that URL Maybe it was called a wringer in the USA or even just in Washington State, - I wouldn't know. My Grandma and her three daughters all referred to it as a mangle - and so does Shropshire Museum Services' Northgate Museum at Bridgenorth, - where they have one on display. Cordially, Julain Wilson, old Jersey. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] French Court replica garb in the Burgundian fashion from 6th Dec, 1491
Gentles of the Lists,
in particular those of you in the SCA whose personas play in W. Europe around
AD1490, in researching garb from the late 15th century, - I have discovered an
excellent photo image 1,075 × 500 pixels, @100% - of a full-sized waxwork
Tableau representing an instant at the Chateau of Langeais, during the marriage
of King Charles VIII of France, and the Ruling Duchess Anne De Bretagne, on 6th
December, 1491. The replica garb is splendid beyond any words of mine to
describe - you just have to see it to appreciate it's magnificence.
What makes the Tableau even more striking is that the effigies all have the
recorded features of their historical personas, either copied from their
portraits closest in date to Dec, 1491, or re-created through facial
reconstructions by Official Forensic Artists who normally assist the French
Police to identify skeletalised remains.
The pin-sharp image is the work of a photographer who is identified only as
Tango7174 - and deserves thanks from us all for making it freely available
under the GNU Free Documentation License,.
The marriage was reported in great detail by contemporary chroniclers, and
clothing details were doubly-recorded, - by also being entered in the
now-archived Wardrobe Accounts of the Duchy of Brittany, and those of the Court
of France.
I am given to understand that the Tableau is the result of an in-depth research
and reproductionproject by the French equivalent of English Heritage, - and
unconstrained by cost-constraints. {Government Departments can always spend
more on things like this than private individuals.
The replica clothing shown is as accurate as might be expected from any
National Heritage Organisation supported from Government funds.
I was recommended to visit the Chateau de Langeais to see their exhibition
and this Tableau, by the staff at the nearby Chateau de Susciniou, during my
recent visit there.
For your interest I am attaching the picture as a jpeg file.
If any of your lists do not allow attachments, but you still want a copy of the
excellent photo, send me your e-mail addresses offlist, and I'll send you
individual copies.
In Service to the Medieval Dream
Matthewe Baker,
Hospitaller for West Dragonshire, Drachenwald.
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[h-cost] Fw: French Court replica garb in the Burgundian fashion from 6th Dec, 1491
Gentles all, for those of you who didn't get the attachment, here's the URL to the picture on Wkikipedia Commons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Loire_Indre_Langeais_tango7174.jpg YiS, Matthewe Baker ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] [Colour names
Gentles of the List, matching colours? Take an accurately-colour-referenced book-illustration/photo that contains the colour you are seeking with you, and visit your nearest Builders' Merchants that has a good Department for professional Painters Decorators. That department will reference it's paint colours to one - or more - of several internationally-recognised Professional Decorators Colour Charts, - used by all Paint Manufacturers to achieve common standards - indexed not by names but by Chart Referenced ID No's. That department should also have a digital colour scanner, computer linked to a paint-mixing machine. They can accurately scan the colour of your sample, and mix you paints to match it exactly. However, they will also be able to cross-reference your sample colour to a shade on one of those International Colour Standard Charts. From that, it shouldn't be too difficult to cross-reference that colour you are seeking to either fabric manfacturers' colour swatches, - or to Dye Manufacturers colour catalogues. When I'm painting heraldry for our medieval re-enactment hobby, that's what I do, always trying to work from a top-quality copy of a period illustration - portrait, or manuscript illumination. Working from Museum Picture Gallery items, one must try to ensure that the picture you've chosen has either been cleaned fairly recently - or that the photo you've bought from the Gallery was taken just after the last time the portrait was cleaned. Cordially, Julian Wilson, old Jersey, [ aka Lord Matthewe Baker, SCA Kingdom of Drachenwald] --- On Mon, 4/1/10, Kate Bunting k.m.bunt...@derby.ac.uk wrote: From: Kate Bunting k.m.bunt...@derby.ac.uk Subject: [h-cost] Colour names To: h-cost...@indra.com h-cost...@indra.com Date: Monday, 4 January, 2010, 10:52 Marjorie Wilser wrote : What color *IS* unburnt umber? My childhood paintbox also had raw umber (and raw and burnt Siena). I see raw umber is listed on the site that Fran recommended. Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk The policy is available here: http://www.derby.ac.uk/LIS/Email-Policy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] CONFUSING COLOUR NAMES - WAS Online dictionary of colors with color swatches
--- On Fri, 1/1/10, Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com wrote: SNIPPED I'm fond of saying we should all just use Crayola colors, the first system we learned. It's pretty obvious that, for instance, yellow-green is different from green-yellow. Though I remember having trouble with several shades, SNIPPED Then there's the Pantone system for printing. Trouble is, they change the colors according to popularity, and the swatch books are expensive. And the color names are numbers. . . SNIPPED COMMENT Just to be even more confusing for those of us interested in medieval costume - skarlets were not only crimson. They ranged all the way from the most expensive black, to a light grey. Julian Wilson, in old Jersey ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Dream costume project
--- On Fri, 13/11/09, michaela de bruce michaela.de.br...@gmail.com wrote: QUOTE If you had the time and the money what would be your dream costume projects? What periods?ENDIT REPLY A complete early* Tudor Henry VII [Note * - Aug 1485-Aug,1486], wardrobe for Maister Matthewe Baker, [Esquire for the King's Body, Sewer of The Chamber, King's Servaunt, Castellan of Kenyllwerth, Governeur Capteyne of Jairsaye] - made from the fabrics supplied for his clothing by the Great Wardrobe - viz: - fyne blak chamlet, fyne blak skarlet, blak saten sarcenet, fyne streit redde blak [wool] for hosen; fyne holand of Flanders for shirtes,- and skinnes or minniver for trymminge of blak bogy for lynynges - of demi-gownes doublettes. In service to the Medieval Dream, Matthewe Baker ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] respect + pictures uploaded to photo Files here - was - cloth of gold -sources
Betsy Marshall, I thank you. This is not something a modest man in his Third Age expects to have happen to him; and you made my day, if not my week.! From your comment on seeing photos of my work, I think we must also be members of another List. for I don't post many photos to List Albums, I'm far too diffident about what I perceive to be the lack of real quality in what I make. Your comment had encouraged me to post pictures of a project my lady and I completed almost a year ago, which might be of interest to THIS List. Over a year ago, my lady and I delivered mesage from across the Great Sea to a gathering of the Society in which we joyfully follow our living-history hobby. Wanting to do that Task with all due ceremony, we researched all the sources available to us, and made two Tabards as would most-likely have been worn by un-Retained Heralds of our little isle, in the late 15th century. I know that many living history enthusiasts [especially those in the UK living-history community] do not have a high regard for the ethos of the SCA; but to our minds, one of it's glories is it's Pyramid of Honours, - which offers incentives for Members to study and improve the quality of their clothing and equipment, and craft skills. Knowing that one's efforts are appreciated by others in the Hobby is a considerabkle reward, on it's own. If you have questions about how we researched, designed, and made them, feel free to ask. Cordially, Julian Wilson, dwelling in old Jersey. --- On Sun, 11/10/09, Betsy Marshall be...@softwareinnovation.com wrote: From: Betsy Marshall be...@softwareinnovation.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reply re - cloth of gold--sources? Request re - camlet sarcenet. To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Date: Sunday, 11 October, 2009, 0:28 I've seen photos of your work, sir and am mightily impressed. Mostly I was just guessing at a formal term of address to a relative stranger, upon bursting into a conversation.. With kindest regards, Betsy/KerMegan -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of julian wilson Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 2:11 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Reply re - cloth of gold--sources? Request re - camlet sarcenet. And where did that most-respected come from? You astonish me! I normally lurk on this List as on a number of others, The perennial student trying to learn from the more-knowledgeable members. Respect is always nice but not if one feels one has not earned it. And I don't. I DO thank you for the thought, though. Cordially, Julian Wilson ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] respect + pictures uploaded - edited
--- On Sun, 11/10/09, Betsy Marshall be...@softwareinnovation.com wrote: I've seen photos of your work, sir and am mightily impressed.SNIPPED. REPLY Betsy Marshall, I thank you. This is not something a modest man in his Third Age expects to have happen to him; and you made my day, if not my week.! From your comment on seeing photos of my work, I think we must also be members of another List. for I don't post many photos to List Albums, I'm far too diffident about what I perceive to be the lack of real quality in what I make. Your comment had encouraged me to post pictures of a project my lady and I completed almost a year ago, which might be of interest to THIS List. Over a year ago, my lady and I delivered messages from across the Great Sea to a gathering of the Society in which we joyfully follow our living-history hobby. Wanting to do that Task with all due ceremony, to do Honour to the Senders as well as to the Occasion, , we researched all the sources available to us, and made two Tabards as would most-likely have been worn by un-Retained Heralds of our little isle, in the late 15th century. I know that many living history enthusiasts [especially those in the UK living-history community] do not have a high regard for the ethos of the SCA; but to our minds, one of it's glories is it's Pyramid of Honours, - which offers incentives for Members to study and improve the quality of their clothing and equipment, and craft skills. Knowing that one's efforts are appreciated by others in the Hobby is a considerabkle reward, on it's own. If you have questions about how we researched, designed, and made them, feel free to ask. Cordially, Julian Wilson, dwelling in old Jersey. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Fabrics bought in England in August, September, 1485 for Henry VII his Affinity
gentles of the Historic Costume List, I greet you well. While happily reading my way through a transcript of the Exchequer Pipe Rolls of the Reign of King Henry VII, - I bethought me of the volatile discussions we had when founding the Company of the Duke's Leopards in old Jersey - about what textiles would have been available for Sale in England in the laet-15th century. So I thought that it might be helpful to those of you who have also wondered thus, - to copy for the List from that transcript from the Rolls Series, - a list of the fabrics bought to make a fresh Wardrobe for Henry Tudor and his immediate Household, to clothe them suitably in the days directly following their Victory at Redemore Fight [ Battle of Bosworth, 22nd August, 1485] - for their triumphal Progress towards - , and entry into London. In the Transcript of the Bills paid to Raynauld Bray by the Exchequer on Henry's direct order under his privy Seal, each item is listed by type of cloth, yardage, price per yard, for whom bought, for what to be made, and total cost. Enjoy! Cloth of gold, riche, Cloth of gold, riche purpille Cloth of gold, grene Satene, blak Satin, crymesyne Brodereban for gurdilles Satin, blak Canvas Lynen Velvet, blak Velvet, crymesyne Fyne chamlet, blakDemi-chamlet, blak, blew, redde Sarcenet, chaungeable Crymesyne inne grayne Violet inne grayne Blak inne grayne Bokeram Hawestrete Medley Fyne straite Blak [for hosen for the Kinges Grace] Fyne straite Redde [for hosen for the Kinges Grace] Light Tawney Blak Kersey White lynyng [for hosen] Fyne Skarlet of Florence The garments listed to be made with these fabrics include clokes, doblets, gowns, demi-gowns, short gowns, and hosen Velvet, sarcenet, and lynen are also listed as being used for linings to garments, as well as for the garments themselves. I hope this exactly-datable, Exchequer Roll-derived, entries-transcript will prove useful to some of you. In service to the medieval Dream, Julian Wilson ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] respect and Henry 7 [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
-- On Sun, 11/10/09, Wilson, Annette annette.wil...@environment.gov.au wrote: Dear Julian, I have been following your comments about Henry 7th and the wardrobe list with interest, and then this. I would be very interested to see your work too, but the h-costume list does not allow attachments. Will you be kind enough to send a link to your heralds' tabard photos so I can also see them. Was it Pennsic you visited? REPLY Dear Annette, I put them into a newly-made Album in the Photos section on the h-costume Yahoo-group website. And no, it wasn't Pennsic War, but Drachenwald's Spring Crown Tourney, 2009, [which Sir Gerhardt won fighting for his lady Mistress Judith, who now reign gloriously over Drachenwald]. The Tourney was held at Foxlease Girl Guides Camp at Lyndhurst, in the New Forest, Hampsire, close enough for this [semi-retired] veteran to be able to travel from old Jersey with his Lady The other items to which Betsy Marshall refers are to be found in a similar album in the photo files of the Medieval Encampments Yahoo group, entitled Messire Baker's Camp and Work Indicentally, two Nobles you wot of - Duke Alaric and Duchess Nerissa, upon a time King and Queen of Lochac, - now serve as the very last Viceroy and Vicerein of Insulae Draconis, and will step down on February 19th when we hold our first Coronet Tournament, and Insulae Draconis becomes the second principality of Drachenwald. My House has received Honours atTheir hands, whiles They reigned in Drachenwald. In service to the Dream, Julian Wilson, [aka Lord Matthew Baker, ODB., in Drachenwald]. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Reply re - cloth of gold--sources? Request re - camlet sarcenet.
--- On Sat, 10/10/09, e...@huskers.unl.edu e...@huskers.unl.edu wrote: Does anyone know where to get cloth of gold? I'm looking for the real deal--largely for pricing and availability at this point. (I've got at least a good enough supplier of cloth of mystery metal) SUGGESTION If I was looking for real Cloth of Gold for my garb, I start by searching the www. for old-established Firms - in England, France, and Italy, - that specialise in supplying Church vestments. It won't be cheap, though, not with the current gold price running at over $600US per Troy ounce! Why especially those Countries? There is a large Roman Catholic population in the Americas, and therefore an occasional demand for cloth of gold for [replacement or new] gorgeous copes,chasubles, altar cloths, c. - but, IMHO, there is less perception in the American Catholic Community that such opulent display is acceptable while there is so much poverty in the world. Whereas, in Europe, it is a centuries-old Catholic and Greek/Russian Orthodox tradition that celebrants vest themselves and the altars and shrines in gorgeous raiment - and I think in the Orthodox liturgical guidelines, types of copes are actually specified for the various Seasons of the Religious Year. . Also, the European Firms that specialise in supplying fabrics for Church use will have been doing it longer, the demand for gorgeous vestments is likely to be greater, and they are closer to the sources of supply - these days mostly wholesale manufacturers in China, where labour costs are still low. REQUEST Now, in return, can anyone point me to sources for black camlet and black sarcenet? And does anyone know what was meant in the Exchequer Accounts of Henry VII for September,1485 by chaungeable sarcenet? Cordially, Julian Wilson, in old Jersey ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request re - camlet sarcenet.
--- On Sat, 10/10/09, penhal...@juno.com penhal...@juno.com wrote: The term 'chaungeable' typically means that the threads in the weft are one color and the warp a different color so that the color shifts depending on how you look at it. At least I am assuming that 'chaungeable' is a period spelling of 'changeable' and that's what 'changeable' means. REPLY Thank you for that clarification, Karen. The Victorian printing of the early Tudor Exchequer Pipe Roll entries does retain the original spellings - so chaungeable IS the Pipe Roll entry spelling, and not my modern typo. It was certainly expensive - the chaungeable sarcenet cost is noted as being 5 shillings and 4 pence per yard, and the Wardrobe bought 6 yards as linings for Baker's items of clothing. This is at a time when a time-served craftsman's daily wage would have been 6 silver pennies a day. FYI, 25 yards of fyne blak camlet for the long gown cost 38s.4d. - for those of you unfamiliar with English Pounds, shillings, pence - or £/s/d, that's 454 silver pennies [silver at 92.6% fine,too]. Confirming my theory about the relative importance of Baker as a Yeoman Servant within the King's Affinity, the item directly follows a similar item for a long gown the King, but for fyne blak velvet. TYVM for your helpful comment. Julian ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] a little clothing data from 30th August, 1485, from the Exchequer Pipe Rolls
Those of you who have read my earlier notes mentioning the Exchequer Pipe Rolls, may be interested to know that - in the accounts to be paid for King Henry VII's new Clothing - ordered directly after winning the Battle of Bosworth [22nd August, 1485] agsythen the kinges commyng to towne, and delivered to [his Servant or Tailor] John Englyssch are the following items - Item, xiij. yerdes of fyne blak chamlet, for a cloke for the king, price the yerde - v.s, iij d. - Lxi.s, iiij.d. and Item, - i yerd di. velvet, blak,for the lynyng of the cape of the cloke, - price the yerd, - xvi.s This not only tells us of the period costs of the fabrics, it also tells us that to make a long cloak for King Henry, with a cape, the Tailor required 13 yards of black camlet, and a yard of black velvet. And, with reference back to the recent query concerning cloth of gold - within the same list of fabrics delieverd to John English to supply Henry Tudor's immediate wardrobe needs within 14 days of Bosworth, we have the entry - fyne cloth of gold, purpille, riche, - at a cost of £6, 2s the yard. Using the conversion from the well-regarded website Purchasing Power of British Pounds from 1264 to Present on economic history, and inflation between 1485 and 2008, we see that In 2008, £6 0s 4d from 1485 is worth £29,658.23 using average earnings. So the more-than £830GB per yard from Watts of London, quoted in another h-cost message today, shows the relative cost of cloth-of-gold has gone down. Cordially, Julian Wilson, in old Jersey ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Reply re - cloth of gold--sources? Request re - camlet sarcenet.
--- On Sat, 10/10/09, Betsy Marshall be...@softwareinnovation.com wrote: Most respected Julien; this website may help you... www.kitco.com/market/ REPLY Thank you, Betsy, I see that my guesstimate about gold prices was seriously low. But it wasn't I who was orginally asking about cloth of gold. My Price comment was merely a bye, STS. Most generous of you to spend youR time to give me the heads-up, tough. And where did that most-respected come from? You astonish me! I normally lurk on this List as on a number of others, The perennial student trying to learn from the more-knowledgeable members. Respect is always nice but not if one feels one has not earned it. And I don't. I DO thank you for the thought, though. Cordially, Julian Wilson ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Gown Doublet for a King's Servant Esquire of The Body?
Yes, you are quite right, Kimiko. Sorry, everyone, - posting this was a tired man's mistake. Julian Wilson --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gown Doublet for a King's Servant Esquire of The Body? To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 4:24 OOOooops! I think you might want to take this off list. Kimiko From: julian wilson smnc...@yahoo.co.uk To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, October 7, 2009 4:57:33 PM Subject: [h-cost] Gown Doublet for a King's Servant Esquire of The Body? Debbie, I saw your posts on this List, and am reminded you make historical costumes professionally. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Gown Doublet for a King's Servant Esquire of The Body?
No, it's an informal sub-group of gentles all over the Known World, [with an online Group of that name], who seem to give especial attention raising their standards of authenticity in their hobby of medieval living-history... Maggie, and everyone else on the List, - I could have sworn I'd sent that e-mail privately, too. Many apologies. Please disregard the content. Julian Wilson --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Maggie maggi...@gmail.com wrote: I'm curious--and not wanting to start a range war or anything--but is the Authentic SCA a different organization from the SCA, Inc.? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Gown Doublet for a King's Servant Esquire of The Body?
Debbie, I saw your posts on this List, and am reminded you make historical costumes professionally. I have just discovered from Materials for a History of the Reign of Henry VII, that my Persona - [Matthew Baker, a close personal yeoman servant to Henry Tudor [ Henry VII] - was supplied with a doublet and gown in black camlet only 3 weeks after the Lancastrians won at Bosworth Field. Henry clothed his closest men through the Wardrobe at this time - through September and October of 1485. I do living history with the Authentic SCA - and have been thinking for some time that I should treat myself to some special clothes suitable for their Courts and Feasts, particularly since I recently was honoured by the European Branch for attention to Authenticity. All my other late 15thC clothing is off-the-shelf, from various sources It would be nice to treat myself to a gowne of blak camlet, lined with chaungeable sarsenet, a doblet of the sayme in time for our 12th Night Coronation over the weekend of January 8th, 2010; that is, if I can afford your Skills. What Standard? I'll be happy with anything that passes the 3ft Rule externally. I must say, after researching in a desultory fashion for the last year, I have found it extremely difficult to find pictures of what Henry's Lancastrians might have been wearing 1485-1490. Burgundian fashions, perhaps, since they'd spent 11 years in exile, guested at the Breton Court of Duke Francois II? Most of the pictures labelled early Tudor available on the www.,refer to the young Court of Henry VIII, after his Acession in 1509. Pictures of European high-status clothing for men between 1485 and 1490 have so far eluded me. Would you consider doing this? If so, what kind of a Budgetary cost would I be looking at? Cordially, julian Wilson, in old Jersey. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Placenames - was Virginia Women's Colleges in the 1960's
--- On Wed, 8/7/09, Kate Pinner pinn...@mccc.edu wrote: Oh, the memories you guys (**that's Jersey for ya'll**) are bringing back. COMMENT Not in the Jersey where I live, it isn't.We still speak the Queen's English and also Jersey-French. I really do wish that you Americans, posting on Lists with an international readership,- would remember that if there is a New Anyplace in your US place names - then there is an original Anyplace - likely back in one of the old countries That forgetfulness/ignorance is one reason why my mail from the States sometimes takes weeks to get here, while the USPostal Service tries to find my address more than 3000 miles from where I actually live! It's also the reason why part of my sign-off is usually dwelling in 'old' Jersey. Anf you'd be surprised at the number of queries that causes, from those whose grasp of Geography History is somewhat lacking. Matthew Baker, :-) [ only half-joking] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question about a portrait
--- On Wed, 17/6/09, michaela de bruce michaela.de.br...@gmail.com wrote: SNIPPED FOR BREVITY On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Elizabeth Walpole ewalp...@grapevine.com.au wrote: I'm pretty sure this is from the decoration in the British Parliament, there is a series of all the kings and queens of England and they all have a gold background and a caption underneath, I think it was done in the Victorian period but I don't know for sure. Elizabeth COMMENT The OLD Houses of Parliament were burnt-down in a catastrophic fire in the early 1840's - 1842, I think, - leaving only Westminster Hall from the older buildings. A.W.N. Pugin was the Architect who did most of the detail design for the new Houses of Parliament. I had occasion to research this item while doing some family History Research. An ancestor of mine, a Stonemason from Bloxham, near Oxford, - being unable to find work in his local area, - tramped-it to London, sleeping in barns and under hedges - and got a job on the re-building of the replacement Houses of Parliament.He stayed on the job until the work on the new buildings were completed, and saved-up enough money from tha long contract to bring his sweetheart from Chipping Norton to London, and marry her in the church of St. Martin-in-the-Fields. So the pictures of the Kings and Queens of England you mention are of early Victorian date - though the Artists may have drawn upon older images. Cordially Julian Wilson, now dwelling in old Jersey. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] London's Hidden Gems
Onaree, one of the oldest Pubs in London is The Prospect of Whitby, on the River, down in Wapping. It was Winston Churchill's favourite place to hide out and unwind, during the dark days of WW2; and the London Dockers were very proud that Winnie came to relax amongst them, accompanied only by his PPO [ whose name escapes me for the moment} It's well-worth a visit, and the food is good - the same kitchen serves both the Bar area, and the upstairs Restaurent, so don't bother paying the latter's cover charge, because you'll get the same quality of food downstairs, - just no table service and a smaller Menu.. Usually there is a jazz session on Sunday evenings, too. And on the subject of WW2 and Churchill, - if you've never visited them before, then try to find the time to visit the Cabinet War Rooms, too, in Whitehall. And on a lighter note, may I suggest the Red House in Bexleyheath; and Kelmscott Manor out near Lechlade on the upper Thames. Both are shrines to the design genius of William Morris and the PreRaphaelite Movement Still on Design, the De Morgan Centre Museum in Wandsworth is well worth a visit. Cordially, Julian Wilson.. --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Onaree Berard msber...@gmail.com wrote: From: Onaree Berard msber...@gmail.com Subject: [h-cost] London's Hidden Gems To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Saturday, 6 June, 2009, 5:02 PM Anyone know of any little known or hidden gems in London? I'm going in late Oct and I know all the big stuff but was wondering about the lesser known stuff. Usually I ask about museums and old buildings but in London that is like asking someone in Los Angles if they know any highways. Onaree -- Proud List Mom of Irish_Crochet_Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What We Wore BBC colour film 1957 on Costume
When I followed the link it led me to the whole series. I live in the British Channel Isles. Thanks for mentioning it, Suzi, - I'v e forwarded the link to our grand-daughter who has a historian's pashion for fashion and will be fascinated by all those lovely origional clothes. Julian. --- On Sat, 10/1/09, Rickard, Patty ricka...@muc.edu wrote: From: Rickard, Patty ricka...@muc.edu Subject: Re: [h-cost] What We Wore BBC colour film 1957 on Costume To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Saturday, 10 January, 2009, 9:07 PM Not available in my area either. :-( From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke [s...@suziclarke.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:45 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] What We Wore BBC colour film 1957 on Costume At 19:35 10/01/2009, you wrote: In a message dated 1/10/2009 1:59:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, s...@suziclarke.co.uk writes: I thought it deserved a wider audience ** It does! But it's not available in my areaso I don't get to see it. When I clicked on that page there was a 15 minute film, sound and colour - was it not there for you? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] felonspy.com
Even if it was genuine, it probably wouldn't be allowed within the European Union since it might infringe the Human Rights of the felons. In the UK, the unscrupulous Lawyers who've made a mint from EU Human Rights Legislation at the expense of the British Taxpayer would be all over the matter like maggots on rotting meat. Matthew Baker --- On Tue, 30/12/08, Trephina treph...@gmail.com wrote: Just wanted to note that this website is a hoax in case anyone wanted to check it out. Trephina (who usually lurks!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Making a heraldic flag with a bordure compony
Gentles of the List, although the subject isn't costume, since this is sewing-related and using fabrics, I just though I'd pass along some hard-learned experience. For anyone who has either made for themselves or been asked to make for others a medieval period Banner or Standard, with the historically-correct bordure compony of the House Colours of the Owner - don't be tempted to take the short-cut I did. When I needed to do this, I looked-up the period manuscripts available - either as illustrations in books on heraldry, or as digitised manuscripts online from such sources as the Library of the College of Heralds. I found the earliest images on the surviving Rolls of Arms showed the borders either as coloured fringes, or as solid fabric. I thought the fringed borders looked cooler than the solid-fabric borders; - and bought myself the appropriate yardage of a made-up furniture fringe [white] from the local Fabric Shop; and since the colours I needed were Argent and Azure, - cut the length in half and dyed one length to the Azure I needed. Several hours of cutting and sewing later, I had my 15ft-long Standard edged with a fringed border of my House Coloured compony [alternating sections]; and it did, indeed look very cool. However, when I flew it for the first time, all those little loops and string in the fringe caught on everything - with the result that every time the wind dropped, my lovely new Standard hooked itself around the top of the mast, where the fringe tangled itself in a series of small Gordian Knots around every small things they could catch upon. So, gentles all, - don't be tempted. If YOU ever have to do this job, use dyed fabrics cut into strips - or ready-made coloured ribbons - to form that bordure compony. The historically-correct alternbativge - the fringe - is, IMHO, - a pain in the butt in practrical terms - you'll forever be trying to untabgle those little knots. I hope this little note will save someone, sometime, from making the same error I have made. In service to the historic dream, Matthew Baker --- On Sun, 28/12/08, Pierre Sandy Pettinger costu...@radiks.net wrote: From: Pierre Sandy Pettinger costu...@radiks.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume- and sewing-related Christmas gifts To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Sunday, 28 December, 2008, 5:44 AM I also got PoF4, also three others (one of them has yet to be delivered - but I got a printout of the BN listing): Gothic: Dark Glamour by Valerie Steele, et. al. from an FIT museum exhibit, with lots of background text. Brilliance! Masterpieces from the American Jewelry Design Council, by Cindy Edelstein and Frank Stankus - It's an album of pieces from each year's Design Project, where they ask jewelry designers to design a piece around a given theme. Lots of really avant-garde stuff. (I asked for this one as I have done a bit of jewelry making and would like to do more - maybe when I retire...) Corsets: Historical Patterns and Techniques, by Jill Salen (I first heard about this on this list, and it sounded cool, as I need to make a few more of these in the upcoming months...) It was a bookish Christmas - I also got 4 fiction titles on my list. One more costume-ish thing - a round box made with a wire frame covered with pale blue crystal organza and a bow - styled like a hatbox but somewhat smaller. Don't know yet what I'll use it for - the person who gave it to me said it reminded her of my costumes... Sandy P.S. - Fran, the pendant sounds lovely!! At 01:51 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote: What did everyone get? In my case not a whole lot. I asked my husband for several costume books, but when he gets off schedule he does this distributed Christmas thing, where stuff arrives any time before February. He did give me a copy of Cally Oldershaw's _Gems of the World_ (a reasonably substantive guide for the amateur), and a 135-carat madeira citrine pendant in a plain silver setting. Fran Lavolta Press New book on 1820s clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Those Who Fail to Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly - Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm The Illusion of Historical Fact -- C. Y. 4971 Andromeda ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Making a Heraldic flag - apology for breaking List Etiquette
Sorry, everyone, I forgot to trim that last Post, I'll try to do better in future! Matthew ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ladies Clothing - gentry, c. 1503
Dear Suzi,, AFAIK, Henry VII's Court had no fashions of it's own, certainly at the beginning of his Reign, but was heavily influenced from two outside sources; - the fashions of the rich Trading-City States of Italy on the one hand - traded northwards by merchants to the celebrated Champagne Fairs around Troyes overland; or brought up to the Low Countries via English Ports en-route, by the Venetian-convoyed Trade Fleets. And on the other hand, by the most brilliant Court in Europe, presided over by Princess Margaret of York, Ruling Duchess of Burgundy, at Mechelin. The realm of England had a long and very friendly association with the Duchy of Burgundy in the late 14thC and during the 15th Century. IMHO, if you choose a dress from any portrait of a Lady of the Burgundian Court of this late 15th C. period, then you will not be anachronistic. Julian Wilson. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
Many thanks to Suzi, Kimiko, and others of this List who have clarified for my House and I just what a serger does, and what use such a machine might be for us in ourThird Age living-history hobby. From your comments I suspect a serger might be a substantial time-saver - since all of the garb we make is only to pass the 10-foot Rule [ if it looks OK from 10 feet away, that's good enough - so using a serger on interior seams sound good to us], - we have so many projects we wish to accomplish in the limited time budgets ofour declining years that we have given-up the idea of trying for museum-replica quality in our equipment. Tnhaks once again, Matthew Baker [aka Julian Wilson in 2008] --- On Sat, 29/11/08, Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] - sergers To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, 29 November, 2008, 12:25 PM At 11:28 29/11/2008, you wrote: Gentles of the Historic costume List, just for the education of my House, who are still muddling along making medieval garb and other fabric items, using a collection of fully-serviced, secondhand but older [i.e. - no computers] domestic sewing machines, -  would any Gentle of the List explain to us [ and other beginners similarly ignorant] what is the difference between a serger and a normal domestic machine; - and what are the advantages of having a serger for use in the making of replica historical fabric items? I have done an internet search - but - due to my online ineptitude, I have no doubt, - have not found any answers we can readily understand. with thanks for your clarifications, Lord Matthew Baker, of the SCA-[UK] A serger is what we in England call an overlocker. If you are making authentic method clothing you do not need one. It stitches over the edge of your fabric, usually cutting off any surplus fabric outside the stitch line and leaving a neat edge. You will find such an edge on most seams of most modern garments. The over edge stitch can also be done by hand, a more authentic solution for a period garment. The idea is no neaten the edge and prevent it from fraying. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
Gentles of the Historic costume List, just for the education of my House, who are still muddling along making medieval garb and other fabric items, using a collection of fully-serviced, secondhand but older [i.e. - no computers] domestic sewing machines, - would any Gentle of the List explain to us [ and other beginners similarly ignorant] what is the difference between a serger and a normal domestic machine; - and what are the advantages of having a serger for use in the making of replica historical fabric items? I have done an internet search - but - due to my online ineptitude, I have no doubt, - have not found any answers we can readily understand. with thanks for your clarifications, Lord Matthew Baker, of the SCA-[UK] --- On Sat, 29/11/08, Zuzana Kraemerova [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Zuzana Kraemerova [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Toyota sergers To: h-costume h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Saturday, 29 November, 2008, 10:32 AM Hi, This might be OT, but I really don't know where else to ask and I haven't found any reviews - my friend is a beginning to intermediate sewer, but she doesn't have any sewing machine except for a badly-working, loud Singer. She wants to take a step forward and buy a new machine. She would also dream of a serger, but buying two machines would take her out of her budget. I've just seen someone selling a brand new Toyota serger for $125!! http://www.strickmaschine.de/machines/over/700-620.htm I know Toyotas are not the top brand, but what do you think - would it be worth the price? Do you have any experience with this brand? Would you buy this serger and replace it perhaps later for a better machine, when your sewing skills would improve? Thanks for advice, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
-- On Sat, 29/11/08, Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:28 29/11/2008, you wrote: Gentles of the Historic costume List, just for the education of my House, who are still muddling along making medieval garb SNIPPED FOR BREVITY with thanks for your clarifications, Lord Matthew Baker, of the SCA-[UK] A serger is what we in England call an overlocker. SNIPPED FOR BREVITY The over edge stitch can also be done by hand, a more authentic solution for a period garment. The idea is no neaten the edge and prevent it from fraying. Suzi THANKS - TYVM, Suzi Season's greetings to you and yours, Matthew - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] All Hallows - OT
--- On Sat, 1/11/08, Audrey Bergeron-Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Audrey Bergeron-Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] All Hallows - OT To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, 1 November, 2008, 7:46 PM So who dressed up for work today and what are you wearing? I went to work as a Goth! I used an old Gunne Saxe dress I don't remember how I got, it's been waiting in the costume closet for a good 10 years, I bought a decent-quality wig, lots of makeup... I was expecting comments such as That's different, or it really changes you... what I got were Wow, you're beautiful!. Maybe I should become a Goth for real ;-) Last Saturday we had a party, where we had to dress as movie characters. We dressed as Shaun of the Dead. My bf was Shaun, and I was a zombie. Great fun there too! It's weird how it scares people when you were weird colour contact lenses. You can see both here http://www.picasaweb.com/audreybmorin/Halloween2008/ (the last picture is of friends of ours, unrelated to my own costumes) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Slipper and the Rose
Sarah, your first message to h-costume has been forwarded to me via that List - so I think you are already OK. You should have mentioned her name, though, to save List members needing to look her up; because she did costume on other films and stage shows. Grandpa. --- On Sat, 25/10/08, Sarah Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Sarah Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] The Slipper and the Rose To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Saturday, 25 October, 2008, 1:02 PM Dear H-Costume, I have been doing research on my favourite film 'The Slipper and the Rose'. The lady who designed the dresses for the ball gown in 'The Slipper and the Rose' is an award winning costume designer and I have been trying to look for her work she did for the film and finding the dressses she designed. I was wondering if you would have more information on this. Sarah ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Nurses and nuns
My Lady has been a working Nurse all her life in the UK, for the last 32 years working in Care of The Elderly. Nurses in charge of the Nursing Service for any Department/Ward were called Sisters. And, yes, there was a Theatre Sister. And the Boss Nurse of a UK Hospital was traditionally titled Matron who ran her domain with an iron fist in a vlevet glove - that often even terrified Senior Consultant Physicians and Surgeons And the proudest qualification for a Nurse was to have the post-Nominal Letters SRN after his'her name [State Registered Nurse - qualifying was the practical equivalent of a Batchelors' Degree Coursenbsp; in Academe, since study durations were the same length] And a Student Nurse's proudest day would be when she got her Royal College of Nursing Badge and a silver belt Buckle at her Graduation Ceremony. And Hospital Matrons used to be superbly- qualified Nurses who earned promotion the hard way, working up from Staff Nurses to Charge Nurses, to Ward Sisters, and on upwards. And the people under care used to be known as Patients. Until the Politically Correctnbsp;politicians and civil servants* [ - *they are arrogant rather than civil, and they are NOT your servants, they only serve themselves and their political superiors!]nbsp;in the Labour Party started messing with the National Nealth Service. Someone with Political Power decided that the NHS was wasting too much money, and that the Service needed professional managers - with qualifications in Administration but not in Medicine or Nursing. So now UK Hospitals have clients instead of patients; - and Ward Managers instead of Sisters - people without nursing qualifications who run their departments with financial budgets and performance targets in mind, not with patient care as their first priority. Someone hidden behind the UK Civil Service veil of Governmental Confidentiality decided that certain titles were elitist, so SRN's were required to re-Certify as Registered General Nurses.And the post of the Hospital Matron vanishednbsp; - replaced by a senior Administratornbsp; who is more liekly to have a Masters Degree in Administration than having been a practical working urse with a thorough knowledge of caring but efficient care of patients - sorry, clients. nbsp; Julian Wilson, proud to have been husband to a working Nurse for over 40 years. --- On Mon, 2/6/08, Carol Mitchell lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; wrote: From: Carol Mitchell lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; Subject: [h-cost] Nurses and nuns To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, 2 June, 2008, 8:41 AM -- Don't nurses wear veils in the UK? I remember from several movies... Monica The nurse in overall charge of a ward was, and for all I know still is, called Sister. I read some books by an author named Lucilla Andrew in which the nurse of the operating room (called an operating theatre)was referred to as Sister Theatre. Can someone tell me if that's been changed or not? Thanks Carol Mitchell Chicagoland Costumer's Guild www.chicostume.org Costume Midwest http://groups.yahoo.com/group/costumemidwest/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Number of machines.Was Sewing and Embroidery Machines
From: LuAnn Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Number of machines.Was Sewing and Embroidery Machines SNIPPED Snarling was heard over some people hogging the machine. Then I had one croak in the middle of a major project, and I vowed never to be without a backup again. SNIPPED FOR BREVITY AND THOSE WHO GET THE LIST IN DIGEST FORM Sewing machines and stock pots. Got a bunch of both of them. :-) COMMENT GenTLes of the List, When our little group of living history enthusiasts were starting the Company of The Duke's Leopards in old Jersey in 2003, - one of the issues was costumes for those who hadn't already gotten them from previous involvements elsewhere. Only three of the original lady founding members had sewing amchines. Though other newbies wanting to join had probably learned to sew in Household Economics Classes in their schooldays, - in their modern married lives and our disposable society they had never needed to buy sewing machines of their own. Cheap sewing machines were needed to loan out. So I took to visiting the local Charity [Hospice} Shop warehouse, and buying every discarded older sewing machine that came in for possible sale - concentrating on good reputation Brand names, and those with metal gears. The average price I paid before I stopped buying was £5-00GB per machine. Then I took the machines to our local indepewndent Sewing machine Engineer [ also a re-enactor of Napoleonic Wars WW2, so he understood our problem of DIY costuming and lack of funds] and he did me a good deal on overhaul prices. The end result, when I left the Duke's Leopards, was that I had 11 secondhand but fully-overhauled sewing machines of varying ages and makes, - ranging from hand-operated Singers to high-end Berninas of the 1960's/70's - up in the loft. 2 of them [Singer Fashionmates with the same Model Number] I gave to our grand-daughter when she joined the SCA in the South of England. As she lives in a village in the middle of the open countryside of Salisbury Plain, miles from any sewing machine engineer, I gave her both Fashionmates so she'd have a standby one, if one broke while she was in the middle of making some garb for herself. Since those of us who are SCAdians in old Jersey are hoping to recruit others and found a Shire local to our island - I'm going to hang onto the remaining 9 machines - since I foresee the DIY-costuming problem arising again in that situation. I don't know how widespread charity shops are in the USA [here in old Jersey we have OXFAM, MENCAP, and one for the Jersey Hospice and a couple of others that I've never visited; most Uk towns of any size have at least one charity shop] - but if you want standby machines, try haunting your local charity shop [do you call them Thrift Shops in the USA?]; - or what you call yard sales - [our UK equivalents are car-boot sales] - and try to pick-up secondhand sewing-machines that way. It's worked for me. In Service, Matthew Baker --- On Sun, 11/5/08, LuAnn Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LuAnn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Money weights
IIRC, the first copper coinage was not issued until the Reign of either henry VIII or of Edward VI. My particular period of re-enactment is late-15th Century England, Brittany, the Anglo-Norman Isles, - and at that time the shilling did not exist save as a unit of account - and everyone was paid in pennies - which were actually coins containing something over 97%fine of real silver, [a plentiful metal in medieval Europe from great middle-European mines such as Kutna Hora]. In my period, a Craft Journeyman in England could expect to earn an average 6 silver pennies for a day's labour. A ploughman - 4d/day. A Knight on campaign - 24d/day for himself - with additional allowances for his personal soldiery, for his servants, and for their maintainance. There are some really good online references for this sort of info; - and Peter Spufford has written 2 wonderful books on the subjects of money and of trade in medieval Europe - which are likely to be of interest to any re-enactor. Especiallt those of us who have done demos, and have had MoP ask what did it cost? - or - How much did you earn? - or - what were your wages? At that time, for over a century previously, maybe longer [IIRC], a number of the silver coins in circulation had the reverse design containing a cross; - and as it was not a crime at the time to deface the coinage, - various medieval coin hoards discovered in modern times have been found to contain silver pennies either cut in half or even cut in quarters along the axis of that reverse cross design. In fact the medieval half-penny of the British isles was literally that - a silver penny cut in half - at least up to the Reign of Henry VIII - there was no half-penny coin minted. In France, the equivalent size value coin to the British silver penny was the silver sol - but the greedy French Kings devalued the currency so much and so often that by the time I re-enact - one English silver penny was worth 28 sols from any French Mint. In Service to the Light, and to Drachenwald, Matthew Baker. Kate M Bunting [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cynthia wrote: In this example, the costs are is 14d, where the d is denarius = a unit of money. I'm not clear how or why the Brits kept using d to refer to the old shilling coin. Perhaps it was a silver coin just as the roman denarius was? I leave to someone from the other side of the pond to explain further. d means an old penny, not a shilling. Denarius was used as the Latin word for it, perhaps because a denarius was a small coin in Roman times? £ s d = Libri, solidi, denarii. Kate Bunting Cataloguing Data Quality Librarian University of Derby ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] new waistcoat
Bjarne, as always, your workmanship - nay - craftsmanship of genius is absolutely stunning! Julian Sally Wilson, in old Jersey -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leif og Bjarne Drews Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:56 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] new waistcoat Yesterday evening i finnished the second part of the new waistcoat. I am pleased, it looks like porcelain i think. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/g10.htm Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Darkover group? - was CC 2009 whine...
cahuff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I went to Darkover Grand Council (had a great time! Saw people, got cool books...) COMMENT Darkover Grand Council? I have the feeling I may be missing something! I'm a great fan of MZB's Darkover Novels. Is there a Role-playing participatory group [like the SCA] for Darkover Series enthusiasts? If so, someone please send me the URL for the Home Page - so I can take a look and see what Darkover enthusiasts are doing, and where, and with whom. Julian Wilson, in old Jersey, [isolated from the world by the English Channel and the Gulf of St. Malo]. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Darkover group? - was CC 2009 whine...
TYVM, Kathleen. I shall look up that website a.s.a.m.b. So there's even role-playing for MJB Drakover fans? Wonderful. Thanks again, Julian Kathleen Hanrahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Julian, julian wilson wrote: cahuff wrote: So I went to Darkover Grand Council (had a great time! Saw people, got cool books...) COMMENT Darkover Grand Council? If so, someone please send me the URL for the Home Page - so I can take a look and see what Darkover enthusiasts are doing, and where, and with whom. I believe that Carol is referring to the Darkover Con which happens annually over the (US) Thanksgiving weekend. It seems to always (that I've heard) take place in Timonium, Maryland (MD) which is on the East Coast, about a half hour drive north of Baltimore, Maryland. In the US, Thanksgiving is the fourth Thursday of November. Here is the URL - http://www.darkovercon.com/ Kathleen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Henry VII Fashion (was: Dress topics, medieval Britain: Your wish list)
Gentles of the Historic Costume List, this humble veteran soldier thanks all of you who have responded to my question about English Dress Fashion in the Reign of King Henry VII. Some of the references cited were of books already in his small reference library, but some of them were unknown to him, and he is most grateful. YiS, Matthew Baker [in the SCA] Julian Wilson [in 2007] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Uniform dress of a Suisse pictures, anyone?
Would anyone be interested in seeing the uniform dress of a Suisse of the Roman Catholic Church? It dates from the 1870's. After nearly 40 years in storage of one kind or another, almost forotten, - my wife and her sister have just prepared it for permananent exhibition at the newly-renovated and re-dedicated Gothic Revival St. Thomas' Church, St. Helier, old Jersey. I have just restored the Spontoon; and am starting to make a replica Mace - which were part of his equipment. If so, I have 2 good pictures [one monchrome from the 1960's and one colour from 2007] that I can post to the List's photo files. [So long as someone tells me what sizes of images those photo files will accept!] Julian Wilson Mary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: swaddling clothing for infants and toddlers underwear aprons breast support maternity clothing wills - clothing handed down through generations second hand clothing Are these too earthy? Mary ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Dress and textile topics, medieval Britain: Your wish list
A well-researched and well-illustrated book [or 2, or 3] about English middle-class and upper-class Dress in England during the Reign of Henry 7th. Almost every book I've been able to look at purporting to deal with Tudor Dress or Costume slides over the Reign of Henry 7th (1485-1509) as though he never existed; - and begins in 1509 with the Accession of Henry 8th!. Julian Wilson, in old Jersey ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Dress topics, medieval Britain: Your wish list
Robin, sorry to have confused your message header - I came into this thread late and didn't read the beginnings of it. However, I'm delighted to have contacted you. I've seen your name on the Lists to which i subscribe many, many times, and know the esteem in which you are held by others whose particular interest is historic costume. My own theory about the apparent lack of study of the Henry VII period for English clothing is that there doesn't seem to have BEEN an English Fashion. By everything I've read, the general conclusion I've drawn from the works of others who've studied and researched far more deeply than I - is that - due to the social uncertainty arising from the power struggles of the WotR, England didn't have the peaceful conditions which would have allowed/encouraged the development of an English Fasjion. By everything I've read, - from about 1450, until the Accession of Henry 8th, - English fashions were heavily influenced by those of the most brilliant Court in Europe, that of Burgundy, ruled over for much of that time by Princess Margaret of York, from her Capital at Mechelin in Flanders. I won't try and drag you further into a discussion on this when you are concentrating on another topic, - but such a definitive book is still on my wish List. Regards, Julian Wilson, [in 2007] Matthew Baker [lifelong Liegeman to Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond, and then King of England, - in the SCA] Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A well-researched and well-illustrated book [or 2, or 3] about English middle-class and upper-class Dress in England during the Reign of Henry 7th. Almost every book I've been able to look at purporting to deal with Tudor Dress or Costume slides over the Reign of Henry 7th (1485-1509) as though he never existed; - and begins in 1509 with the Accession of Henry 8th!. I agree with you on that one. And there are very few scholars doing work in that period right now, I've noticed. However, I think you (and a few other people) may have read only my subject line and not my message, in which I indicated I'm collecting headwords for entries (not book topics) for an encyclopedia covering Britain from 450-1450. Sorry I wasn't clearer. Many many thanks to those of you who are sending me ideas for headwords, both on- and off-list. I've collected quite a few that we hadn't yet considered, and I expect we will be using many of them. Keep 'em coming! --Robin _ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Help, please? Cleaning tarnished metallic lace.
Ladies Gentlemen of the List, this List seems to be honoured by a number of people whose professional work is - or has been - Costuming - for Museums, Theatre, Films, and the like. Reading many past Posts while I have been lurking in the shadows and learning from you all, I suspect that some of you also have expertise in the conservation and cleaning of historic clothing. I plead for help on behalf of my Lady and her sister, from such of you as have experience in the restoration/conservation of historic clothing - especially the metallic lace which so often is to be found upon dress uniforms. Old Jersey's Catholic cathedral has just undergone a £1Million+plus renovation, to restore the building to it's original 1870's Gothic Revival splendour. The Canon [Jersey's most senior Catholic priest] has subsequently - and as a part of the renovation - created a small exhibition - in purpose-made display-cases - in one of the underused side-chapels - of many religious items which have languished hidden in storage for years. Near-on 40 gorgeously-embroidered Copes and Chasubles have been discovered, for example, secreted in various cupboards and chests in seldom-visited corners of various Church properties. Some of these robes are believed to be over a century old, dating from the 1870's-80's. These robes will be displayed in rotation, so that visitors and Congregation may marvel at the High Craft of these wonderful examples of the highest-quality Embroidery. Chalices, pattens, monstrances, reliquaries, small shrines, and other items, - many presented to the new Church when it was first consecrated in 1873 - have now been cleaned and restored by my Lady and her sister, and are on-display for the first in over 60 years. One Monstrance is said to have been donated to the newly-consecrated St. Thomas'' Church by Louis Napoleon III, ex-Emperor of the French. A small coffered shrine, of over-gilded wood and plaster, now in restoration by myself - is known to have been donated by the Papacy of the Time. One of the exhibits is the Uniform of St. Thomas' Suisse [from the French suivre - to follow, rather than from the Swiss denoting a connection with the Papal Guard]. The Suisse led all the Church processions - carrying a Mace and a Spontoon, to clear the way. The single-breasted swallow-tail coat is edged- and the overall trousers are striped down the side seams - with metallic gold lace, almost a bright as the day they were delivered from the Tailors, [because they were properly stored-away when the office of the Suisse was not filled by the local priest in the early 1960's, following the retirement of the previous Suisse]. However the Suisse's cocked hat, [worn athwartships] - also heavily ornamented with gold lace and trimmed with white ostrich feathers - was not so carefully stored-away, and - though the base fabric and feathers are untouched by Time, - the metallic lace has tarnished badly, and is now green instead of a bright gold. We would welcome suggestions as to how we might clean the metallic lace and restore it to a shine at least equal to that of the lace ornamenting the swallow-tail coat and the trousers. Thanking you in advance for your suggestions, Julian Wilson ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Help, please? Cleaning tarnished metallic lace.
Dear Suzi, TYVM for your prompt response. I shall look them up online today. yoursgratefully, Julian Wilson Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SNIPPED However the Suisse's cocked hat, [worn athwartships] - also heavily ornamented with gold lace and trimmed with white ostrich feathers - was not so carefully stored-away, and - SNIPPED - the metallic lace has tarnished badly, and is now green instead of a bright gold. We would welcome suggestions as to how we might clean the metallic lace and restore it to a shine at least equal to that of the lace ornamenting the swallow-tail coat and the trousers.SNIPPED REPLY You could try contacting Hands - (Lacemen) in London, who very possibly supplied the braid in the first place. I will try and get an address for you. Otherwise museum conservators, or the Royal School of Needlework's conservator department at Hampton Court might be able to help. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Reply - [h-cost] Help, please? Cleaning tarnished metallic lace.
Aha! Margaret Street, London? Way back when the world was young, rocks were soft, - one of my very first jobs was clerking for the Performing Rights Society whose HQ was in Margaret Street! Hand't thought of that for years. Anyway, TYVM for giving-up some of your Sunday morning to be so helpful. My lady will now take action on that data. Best Wishes and Thanks, Julian Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:43 14/10/2007, you wrote: Dear Suzi, TYVM for your prompt response. I shall look them up online today. 86 Margaret Street London W1W (0207 580 7488) http://www.hand-embroidery.co.uk/ Suzi Apparently they have moved and changed hands and so on! (No pun intended!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
Have replied off-list to all who have been kind enough to respond to my query. Julian Wilson ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
REPLIED - WITH MANY THANKS - OFFLIST. JW Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dress in 18th century Europe 1715-1789. by Aileen Ribeiro. Amazon Uk have it. Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
Gentles of the List, I have a young grand-daughter who has become deeply interested in 18th C high-status European fashions after seeing the most-recently-mdae Cinderella film. As a Christmas Present, my Lady and I would like to give our grand-daughter a couple of profusely-illustrated reference books about 18th C. Fashions as starters for a personal reference library for her new interest. 18th C. European fashions are not a subject I have had any reason to research - [though I DO know the military history in considerable depth], and I have no reference Base to help me. Would Members of the List be good enough to make Book suggestions to help us pruchase a couple of sutiable reference books for our grand-daughter? Julian Wilson, dwelling in old Jersey, [aka in the SCA as Matthew Baker, a veteran soldier of the late 15thC.]. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] What about Dress at the Court of Henry VII? - was book: Henry VIII costume
Beth and Bob Matney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dress at the Court of King Henry VIII by Maria Hayward Paperback ISBN: 1905981414 Pub. Date: October 28, 2007 http://www.maney.co.uk/search?fwaction=showfwid=766 COMMENT Gentles all, has anyone authored/edited a similar book about Dress at the later Plantagenet Courts that of King Henry VII [7] ? Those of us - such as my own House - who re-enact the English period 1450-1509 would find such a book invaluable, gathering into a single source data on the English-worn fashions of those 59 years. In Service, Matthew Baker, dwelling in old Jersey ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bayreuth event 2007
Dear Bjarne, Sally and I have just had the time to go through the pictures of the Bayreuth Event you were lucky enough to be able to attend. [You do recall making the embroidered red-satin belt pouch for her, with the 3 silver lions rampant? When she wears it at SCA events in the UK, it always attracts attention from ladies.] What a wonderful weekend iBayreuth must have been! And how marvellous that it could be held on such a wonderful Site! The clothing looks incredible - and you must all have had the wonderful I've slipped back in Time feeling for most of the weekend, too. Your silver suit looks so right - like original clothing miraculously preserved in a Museum and loaned-out just for the weekend - I can't praise the look highly enough. Pictures such as these could probably inspire my wife and I to think about changing Period to the 18th C. - if there was an 18th C Re-enactment Group anywhere close to us. Alas, Jersey is such a small island; and the travel costs are so high! We do have one 18th C group in Jersey - the Royal Militia of The Island of Jersey - inspired by the 1781 unsuccessful invasion by French mercenaries - but they mainly concentrate on the military aspects of things, and I've only seen a few ladies involved, dressed as soldiers' wives and camp-followers; - which hardly gives an incentive for re-creating high-Society 18th C. dress. Our 25yr-old grand-daughter fell in love with 18thC Costume through seeing the Cinderella Movie - and I have sent her the URL of the Bayreuth event pictures so that she can see those mouth-watering clothes and be inspired by them as well. Best wishes - Julian Wilson. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT but amazing: early color photography
IMHO, the couple ARE Cossacks, - and - from what I can distinguish of the medal ribbons - the man appears to be wearing several Czarist/Imperial-Russian medals on his tunic's right breast. The Cross would likely be an Award for Valour. SFAIK, the objects in question are indeed containers of some kind for rifle/carbine ammunition, possibly for the M1870 Berdan II or Berdanka rifle - or more likely the cavalry carbine version - which continued in Czarist Service through the Russo-Turkish War, even after the issue of the Mosin-Nagant to front-line Infantry units beginning around 1891. In fact it continued to be issued to Reserve Units up-to, - and during WW2. Numbers of surplus Berdan I's II's were sold-off as hunting arms. According to my copy of Small Arms Of The World, - a special cartridge was manufactured for use in the Czarist Berdanka cavalry carbine. It consisted of the same cartridge case and bullet used in the Berdan I and Berdan II rifles, but with a lighter powder charge of only 4.5 grams, and was issued in six round pink paper packets. As late as the Cyprus Emergency in the mid-to-late1950's, the British Forces were occasionally still finding [and confiscating] working, and well-used, early [i.e. mid-to-late 19th C], breechloading long-arms during anti-EOKA-terrorist operations in the mountain villages. J.W. E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Saragrace Knauf Anyone have a clue what the cartridge like things are on some of the men's costume? - http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/images/p87_7010__01477_.jpg Do you mean the pleats, or the shells? =} I'm pretty sure they are actually wearing amunition--I'd guess this guy is a cossack, known for their military prowess. Those things look like muzzle-loading paper cartridges: http://cartridgecollectors.org/slics2006/whitworth.jpg http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/c0034.html or much less likely, cleaner bullets: http://www.fototime.com/F3B7ACC989A3679/orig.jpg They would have been a good 50 years or so out of date at the time of this photo, but still used in areas like this. -E House (Mmm, a handy dandy pocket-sized time machine, like I always wanted!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT but amazing: early color photography - Cossack Couple
Further to my last posting, concerning the Cossack's breast-pocket-carried ammunition, - the Bravery Award worn by this Cossack appears to be either the Order of St. George, 4th Class [a white enamelled Cross worn as a breast badge] - or The Cross of Saint George, either 3rd or 4th Class [ a silver cross worn as a breast badge]. on ribbons of the Romanov House Colours. The most likely, - because of the numbers awarded - is the latter - associated with the most-prestigious Order of Saint George, but for enlisted men and NCO's, the Cross of Saint George came in 4 classes. Like the Order of St. George, the St. George Cross was awarded for acts of distinction under arms. An enlisted man or NCO would be awarded the 4th Class Cross for his first brave act. A second notable act could then bring him the 3rd Class Cross, etc. The first class and second class were in gold, the first class with a bow on the ribbon. The third and fourth classes were in silver, the third class marked by a bow. The ribbon was the same as for the Order of Saint George, black stripes upon an orange ground ; - the Colours of the House of Romanov I hope this info. will be of interest to someone on the List. Regards, J.W. E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Saragrace Knauf Anyone have a clue what the cartridge like things are on some of the men's costume? - http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/images/p87_7010__01477_.jpg Do you mean the pleats, or the shells? =} I'm pretty sure they are actually wearing amunition--I'd guess this guy is a cossack, known for their military prowess. Those things look like muzzle-loading paper cartridges: http://cartridgecollectors.org/slics2006/whitworth.jpg http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/c0034.html or much less likely, cleaner bullets: http://www.fototime.com/F3B7ACC989A3679/orig.jpg They would have been a good 50 years or so out of date at the time of this photo, but still used in areas like this. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Obsolete weapons - was amazing: early color photography -
E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Julian! Mine were just semi-educated guesses--it's nice to see them confirmed. -E House (certifiable gun obsolete technology nut) COMMENT Well, back when rocks were soft, I fired a LOT of infantry weapons on Courses at the Small Arms Wing of the School of Infantry, - at Hythe. The Museum there had the most complete collection of small arms of the world in the entire UK; but it was a museum which was a working part of the School, and the weapons were there to be used, in the lecture theatres [to study design, engineering, stripping, cleaning, repiar, adjustm,net, c, c.], - and on the Hythe ranges in comparative shoots. There, the Instructors used to teach us to be able to make effective combat use of any foreign weapon we might find in the field, - should we be denied the use of our own personal weapons for some reason, when on Ops. [If you kept yourself busy, going on Courses, you got a reputation for being keen; and your CO was less likely to find you unpleasant or boring jobs to do!] Contacting Major Gales, then the Adjutant and Curator at Hythe, to sign a bloodchit and take-up a place on a Comparative Weapons Course was quite highly-regarded as an interesting get-out, from exercises on Dartmoor or in the Brecon Beacons. So, many of the bright chaps in my generation did courses on Allied and captured enemy weapons and other equipment. Which included many weapons supposedly obsolete for frontline Units in their countries of origin, but handed over to allied Satellites, or issued to Reserve formations, or home defence units; or air-dropped to guerilla/partisan units, In my time, I had the opportunity to fire everything from16th C bronze cannon, Tower Muskets, Baker Rifles, and Napoleon's Daughters, - up to the first Avtomat Kalashnikovs [captured during the Suez Affair]. And I hasten to point out that this wasn't a question of being gun-nuts - this was about personal survival, considering where some of us were being Posted, and what our Opposition might well have in their weapons caches, left-over from previous wars. Fledgling Independance Movements bought whatever weapons they could afford from Arms Dealers. And sometimes this meant- for the poorest - weapons which had last seen service in the Crimean or Franco-Prussian Wars of the 19th C. Back to the Cossack Male - All the tunics have those breast pockets for 12 rounds of ammunition. And his edged weapons are as much a part of his traditional dress as his clothing, his riding boots, baggy trousers, and his hat. If you do a Google Search for Cossack weapons - you'll get a selection of websites containing nice pictures released from the ex-Soviet Archives - and you'll see that all Cossacks, of all the Hosts, carried the same designs of traditional long knives or short swords [whichever!]. Wikpedia has a mass of cross-refernced data about the various Cossack Hosts - lifestyle, ancient and modern history, c, c. Regards, J.W. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Bernina Sewing machine user manuals
Gentles of The Lists, would anyone like to point me in the direction of a good source [downloadable or otherwise] for Users manuals for the following Bernina machines - the 700, 730, Bernina CMatic 801 Electronic? Our little Island-isolated groups of living-history interpreters and SCA members wanted to start making garb, - and I've bought in a number of sewing machines from our local equivalent of Goodwill. Before they go out on loan to members, I want to make sure they all have user manuals. The trouble is that none of them had user manuals when I bought them secondhand, and though I've had them all serviced at my own expense by the local Sewing Machine Engineer, he couldn't provide me with copies of the User manuals for any of them. Help! Please? Matthew Baker dwelling in old Jersey. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] What R U doing this weekend ?- was Testing...
Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sue Clemenger wrote: 3-day weekend in the U.S. I'd imagine a lot of us are off doing family stuff, camping, etc. I've just come back from seeing Pirates3, myselflots of fun. Rewiring the electrical in the bedroom. I'll be able to SEE when I cut out my fabric, and when I'm digging in the back of the closet for stored costumes. COMMENT It's a 3-day weekend here in the Anglo-Norman Isles, too. Mixed weather as is usual for an English May Holdiay weekend - Farmers fear unkindly May, Frost by night and hail by day - - -- Saturday was sunny, yesterday sunny with showers including some hail, overnight storm is still blowing hard and showering this morning; - and I now wish I'd laid-out our sleeping tent yesterday and brushed-off the canvas before re-folding everything into tighter bundles for next weekend's travelling to the mainland UK. Over here, May is a month with 2 Bank-Holiday Mondays, and May 9th is our Isles' 1945 Liberation Day Anniversary Celebration - so work-wise and wages-wise - it's a short month. My House is sorting equipment and pre-packing - to travel to the UK Mainland to take part in West Dragonshire's Winchester Pilgrimage [weekend June 1st to 3rd] see some pictures at http://www.westdragonshire.org/pilgrimage - based upon the medieval Almshouses Hospital of St Cross, [Winchester, Hampshire, UK,] - which latter is a group of almost unaltered medieval buildings continuously-occupied by the Brothers Of St. Cross since it's Foundation. The location has almost no anachronisms in view once through the gateway; and the Brothers all wear monkish robes, too, as daily-garb, - which helps the effort of belief. Next Saturday morning's 3 hrs pilgrimage walk will be along the path through the watermeadows beside the River Itchen, finishing-up at Winchester Cathedral; and then walking back to St Cross. Satruday night's Feast will be held in the Hospital's medieval Hundred Mens' Hall. IMHO, this will be one of the two events in Drachenwald this year [the other wil be Ffair Raglan III ] at which Society members will be able most easily - and with minimum effort of imagination - to experience those rare precious moments when one may look round and think one's self back in the medieval Period. So for my Lady and I this weekend will continue to be a weekend of happy anticipation, and pre-packing equipment. YiS, Matthew Baker ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 2, 700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece - no pictureof the cloth!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You beat me to it! My husband told me about it this morning, and I was going to pass it on to the list. I believe the plans are to try to stabilize/save the piece first, and then try some analysis. (I remember reading that several years ago, a piece of silk was found--I believe they think it might have been Phillip of Macedonia's tomb, but it had basically turned to jelly, as the silk proteins were broken down) COMMENT To use 60yr old schoolboy slang - I say, what a swizz! They only show you the copper vessel on the Site, - no pics of the fabric! [Or if there were, I didn't find them!] I suppose we'll all have to wait until the fabric has been through a lengthy stabilisation and conservation process, before we get to see the cloth. Could be many months! Matthew, in old Jersey ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Our Country's Good - songs music for Anna
Dear Anna, whether or not this will be of any use to you, I don't know. However, a few year's back, the noted English Folk Singer and Song Writer Peter Bellamy wrote a highly- praised Folk Opera The Transports which contained 18 songs in traditional folksong style of the Times; - about the very first voyage to set up the Penal Colony in Botany Bay. Particularly, it has been much-performed and much-praised in Australia,as one might expect. The music songs of this Folk Opera might be of interest to your Producer/Director. There is are several CD's, if you are interested. Topic Records TSCD 459 (CD, UK, 1992) is the version I have, but another CD Company produced a 25rg Anniversary Boxed set in 2004. Yours in Service Julian Wilson, [aka in the SCA as Matthew Baker] 50 years a traditional Folk Singer. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anna Zola Piggie Rethie Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 3:03 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Our Country's Good Hullo all! This is my first time posting anything to the list, though I've been lurking quite a while. I'm designing the costumes for my high school's production of Our Country's Good, by Timberlake Wertenbaker. If you don't know it--it's about the British convicts and soldiers sent to found a penal colony in Australia in 1789. There are several marines in the play--from rank of 2nd lieutenant to major, a navy midshipman, and the navy captain governor, an aborigine (not sure yet if this character will be played by a man or woman, which is a pain for designing the costume), several convict men, and five convict women. I was wondering if anybody here knew of any resources for researching the clothes of any of these sorts of people, or just happened to know stuff themselves. Much thanks! Cheerio, Anna ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: bonnet / coif query
Saragrace, in the Mary Rose Trust's Volume 3 Report on the archaelogy of the salvaged Tudor wreck, Before The Mast - Life Death Aboard The Mary Rose, there is a picture of the salvaged Barber-Surgeon's velvet bonnet/coif, together with an accurate sketch of it as recovered and as conserved reconstructed. The Mary Rose foundered in July of 1545, and so predates the bonnet mentioned by Joy in an earlier post by nearly a century. The illustrations are so clear, I think you'll find the construction method used to be very helpful. If you e-mail me off-List, I'll scan-in the pages from my own copy of Before The Mast and download them to you a jpg files. YIS, Matthew, isolated by sea from the SCA mainstream, in the island of Old Jersey ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] historic academic robes - robes for 15th/16th C. Barber Surgeons, Chirugeons, Notaries
Susan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Has anyone pointed you to this yet? http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/occupationaluniforms.htm REQUEST FOR HELP, PLEASE Gentles of the Historical Costume List, can any Listers direct me to clear contemporary illustrations of the over-robes worn for normal day wear by late-medieval professionals such as Barber-Surgeons, Chirugeons, and Notaries? From the few illustrations I've been able to find so far, - any prosperous middle-class man seems to have worn some variation on a long - just-above-the-ankles, heavy-looking robe, of some dark fabric, trimmed with fur around the neck, sleeve-cuffs or armholes, vertical front closure hems; and bottom hem. I am already aware of the Holbein portrait of King Henry VIII with the College of Barber Surgeons. Unfortunately, the digitised versions I've been able to access are too dark to be able to see much clothing detail on the Barber Surgeons' robes. I've looked quickly at the website posted by Susan [see above] for another enquirer, - but couldn't see any sub-headings relevant to my own search for pictures clear enough to enable me to acquire/make such a robe for my own future use in a portrayal of a Barber-Surgeon of the period 1490-1509. Your help is humbly solicited, and will be most gratefully received. YIS, Matthew Baker, isolated from the SCA mainstream in old Jersey. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Glass beaded caul?
When my Lady and I were visiting Venice [the Italian one] last year, we came across several costume shops dedicated to supplying the needs of the Carnival, and a couple of them were showing beaded cauls in their windows. No addresses, though. [They looked good, but I didn't think they were period for my House, so I didn't bother.] But if anyone you know is visiting that Venice, you could ask them to keep and eye open on your behalf. YIS, Matthew, in old Jersey Crimson Vision [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Everyone, I'm wondering if anyone knows where I can get a beaded caul? I saw a Lady with one completely made from glass bugle beads and have been trying to find one since I saw her over a year ago. She was given it as a gift and doesn't know where it came from. My attempts to make one myself have not gone well. At all. ;) Castle Garden Creations makes beaded cauls but they are of plastic ( and I have several already). I do not want a crotched snood as I have a bunch of those as well. If anyone has ideas or suggestions I would very much appreciate it! Thank you! Traci ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Computer translations - was - tudor era picture and..
Ruth Anne Baumgartner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks really interesting, but that automatic translation from French into English is utterly hilarious. LITERAL as can be. -- Reassuring evidence that computers will NOT replace humans in this area any time soon (Reminds me of that story that was going around back in the 'sixties? 'seventies? about a translating machine that had been built to translate English into Russian. Someone fed in The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak and got back the Russian equivalent of The wine is pleasant but the meat is spoiled.) COMMENT I agree with that posting, Except for Hex, Dahak, and the First Syrian Bank, computers are not intelligent - they only think they are! I recently did an online search for the full Lyrics of Plaisir d'Amour to add to my repertoire for possible use as a fill-in piece at future Bardic Circles. One of the versions I found online included a translation into English, quite obviously achieved with a computer programme. I speak good French [for an Englishman - or so my French friends tell me] - and the translation was risibly incomprehensible!. YIS, Matthew, in old Jersey ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Sewing-machine coup happy dance!
Gentles all, I visited the local equivalent of a US thrift Shop two Friday's back, and came away with 2 in-table-mounted Singer Stylist Model 457's for £10GB each, and a clean and well-cared-for Singer Model 66K [ circa 1906-1920] hand-cranked, table-top machine, [the one with the lovely Lotus decals] - thrown in, for free. The local Sewing Machine Engineer is servicing them for me now. Both the Stylists came with original User manuals, and a full complement of accessories - various types of feet, spare bobbins, spare needles, original tools and oil bottles. These will be kept for use by novice re-enactors who wish to join either our established Companie of the Duke's Leopards, or the SCA-group we are trying to start in our little Isle - to make their own garb and equipment, and/ or tents. In Service to the Light, and our Dream, Matthew, in old Jersey. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 768
I much prefer the idea of the fold box, from Glory Road. Julian, in old Jersey. Wanda Pease [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dr. Who?.. or Fold Box from Glory Road Issue 768 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] cloak clasps?
REPLY Gentle Lady Zuzana, from previous personal experience, I'd suggest you take a look at the online catalogues of Steve Millingham's Pewter Replicas, and Colin Torode's Lionheart Replicas. I believe both Gentles are Master Pewterers, - and I have had the pleasure of dealing with these UK-based Merchants over the last 3 years, and enjoyed quite exceptional and helpful service from both of them. I believe that both of their catalogues show replica cloak clasps, either modelled upon archeological finds or examples already in National Museums such as the Museum of London. Disclaimer, - I have no commercial relationships with either, save as a VERY satisfied customer. I cannot recommend them highly enough.. Yours in Service to our Dream Julian Wilson, in old Jersey, [aka in the SCA as Matthew Baker] Zuzana Kraemerova [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings:-)) Does anyone know some good source where I can buy some cloak clasps of reasonable prices and shipping? Preferably from the UK, because I'm from Europe. Thanks, ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: History of measuring tools + seeking a replica set of scales
david webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings all: Some related info on everything you ever wanted to know about household items made of wood: MUCH SNIPPAGE The late Maurice Stevenson, who revised this book for its third edition, was a senior inspector of weights and measures and an enthusiastic collector of old weights and measures. Other Shire titles by this author are: Weights and Measures SNIP COMMENT Gentles of the List, While David Webb - [thanks for a most intersting and informative Posting, BTW, David] - is on the subject of historical weighing - can anyone recommend any Merchant/source for a set of medieval-looking small scales? My Lady Alys Vitel would like to have a set sutiable for a late-15th C Apothecary/Herbalist. Something with a price tag that wouldn't call for me to take-out a second Mortgage to afford to buy the scales, would be nice? God's Blessings on you all this Feast of St. Cassius; - and until He calls us Home to Him for the Last Battle and The Judgement that shall follow.. Yours in Service, Matthew [Messire Matthew Baker, Governor Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto - Si vis pacem, para bellum (Trans:-if you wish for Peace, prepare for War) ] aka. - Julian Wilson, - late-medieval Re-enactor; Herald, Historian, Master Artisan to The Companie of the Duke's Leopards, [the Island of old Jersey's only mediæval living-history Group] Meet us at www.dukesleopards.org [input] - - Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail . The New Version is radically easier to use The Wall Street Journal ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] U.S.-based Fabric stores closing
Hearing all your sad tales of your local fabric stores closing has made me realise that we in the little Island of Jersey must be extremely fortunate in having Hamon's of King St., Saint Helier, to patronise. This fabric Store - situated in a late-18th Century building on our Town's main shopping street, - is still operated by the Hamon Family [Armory - Azure, a Lion rampant, reguardent, Or, - first recorded in 1331 Gregorian] - and all the staff have been there for decades, and are all either in their 60's or older - [one or two much older], - with the benefits of decades of fabric-shop experience. Compared with younger shop staff locally, I cannot praise our Hamon's staff highly enough. The range of goods is huge - and the shop is stacked high with bolts of cloth [and the ceilings are very high]. If Mr. Hamon hasn't got what you require, then he'll move heaven and earth to obtain it for you! Obliging doesn't even come close! Yours in Service, Matthew [Messire Matthew Baker, Governor Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto - Si vis pacem, para bellum (Trans:-if you wish for Peace, prepare for War) ] aka. - Julian Wilson, - late-medieval Re-enactor; Herald, Historian, Master Artisan to The Companie of the Duke's Leopards, [the Island of old Jersey's only mediæval living-history Group] Meet us at www.dukesleopards.org [input] - Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] U.S.-based Fabric stores closing
Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, Julian! It sounds like your island should become a destination spot for a shopping vacation! The store sounds *wonderful!* ;o) --Sue, a long ways away from any Jersey, old or new COMMENT Dear Sue, if our omniscient politicians [short-sghted SoB's!] hadn't been so stupid as to allow one ferry Operator to have a monoploy of the Sea Route to the UK - leading to monopoly-level prices, we would probably have a much larger number of shopping daytrippers than we do. We have the most expensive sea-ferry fares in the whole of Europe! I can travel return between Dover Calais cross-Channel, ten times; - for the cost of one trip Jersey-UK-Jersey. Asa result, most of the blue-collar population have become economic prisoners here. God be with you wherever you are! Yours in Service, Matthew [Messire Matthew Baker, Governor Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto - Si vis pacem, para bellum (Trans:-if you wish for Peace, prepare for War) ] aka. - Julian Wilson, - late-medieval Re-enactor; Herald, Historian, Master Artisan to The Companie of the Duke's Leopards, [the Island of old Jersey's only mediæval living-history Group] Meet us at www.dukesleopards.org [input] - Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Burano's historic lace museums Venice's Historic Costumiers
Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorensen would be Sørensen in danish. SNIPPAGE Danish laces ah yes, i have many experiments with these MUCH SNIPPAGE Comment Dear Bjarne, your e-mail header Sorensen - is not about a subjects which I'd normally spend time - the lace being a section of costume history about which I know very little. However,... Burano's Lace Shops and Museums For the future, - if you ever decide to visit Venice on holiday, - the little island of BURANO, in the Venetian Lagoon, - is still - [and was for centuries] - a community of lacemaking Families. The entire village main street is lined with Family-owned shops devoted mainly to Lace, with some embroidery, - and every single one Sally and I entered this summer on our afternoon-long visit to the island, - has it's own little Museum Display of Lacework created just by that Family in the past. The exhibits are all preserved under glass, and generally hanging on the walls in an area specially set-aside at the back of each shop. Never have I seen so much historic lace and embroidery gathered together in such a small location - it's only a small island, and only now supports one village; - though at the height of it's lacemaking days, the island is said to have had thousands of lacemakers in the much-larger historic Population. From what I recall of the translated notices on the exhibits, - the Venetian lacemaking industry really began in Burano during the early 16th Century, when the Serene Republic was just past the peak of it's greatest political and military Power, and had begun it's long, slow descent into decadence. If you ever go to Venice, - with your particular interests, - Burano would really be worth a leisurely visit. Historic Costumers in Venice: - Also, with your particular interests, - it might be worth noting that Venice itself is home to a significant number of small, Family-run, Historic Costumiers, They originally came into being to service the touristic demand for Carnival costumes, - but have since branched-out into costuming for Film-makers and for Museums. Sally and I visited several of them - and came-away from those visits suffering sensory overload from all of the wonderful historic outfits which were displayed for us to see. Yours in Service, Matthew [Messire Matthew Baker, Governor Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto - Si vis pacem, para bellum (Trans:-if you wish for Peace, prepare for War) ] aka. - Julian Wilson, - late-medieval Re-enactor; Herald, Historian, Master Artisan to The Companie of the Duke's Leopards, [the Island of olde Jersey's only mediæval living-history Group] Meet us at www.dukesleopards.org [input] - - Yahoo! Cars NEW - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online search now - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming other period tack
Susan Data-Samtak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Annette and others- Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? I'd hate to not get feedback from all the historical costumers on the big list, but I don't want to annoy the rest of you with horse specific questions. Much snippage ! But... I would have been in the peasant class, as I am in real life!) Susan snip On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Kahlara wrote: Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and riding. I ride and own horses also.Much snippage Just a little generalizing. ;-) COMMENT Annette, Susan, and others - according to Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon, - he estimates that of the entire SCA membership, possibly only 10% can actually ride, - and fewer still own their own horses. Presumeably the percentage of riders against pedestrians is much the same in most other re-enactment groups, large and small - Roman, Dark Ages, medieval, English Civil War, Frederick the Great, Marlborough, 1776, Napoleonic Wars, Crimean War, US Civil War, Zulu Ashanti Wars, and Anglo-Boer War, c, c. This is a huge percentage difference from the medieval period covered by the SCA when one would suppose that the majority of the population above Freedman-Status could ride, - and of course true also for those of the rest of us interested in any other Period Re-enactment up to and including about 1914 Gregorian. There must be so much specialised Equestrian Lore of costume, of bardings, of other tacks - of which we are unaware, - it would seem likely to be a subject of considerable interest to those of us who don't ride horses in these Modern Middle Ages. For example... The riding side-saddle, riding astride-debate has it's own fascinations - Chaucer's illustrators clearly show the female Pilgrims riding astride - but I have read comments confusing the issue, by moderns, flatly stating that even during the 15th Century, all women rode fully-side-saddle, or sat behind a Male servant. Did this call for divided skirts? or did women wear hosen under their skirts so as to be able to ride astride yet keep their modesty? At what Time point and in which Kingdoms did it become immodest and frowned-upon for women to ride astride? I would support such a subgroup, and kibitz in the hope of learning much new information. Julian, in Old Jersey - To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] modes and manners - kissing hands
Sue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I think the man is only allowed to kiss her hand if she first presents her hand.Sue Shatto [EMAIL PROTECTED] 401 Fairview Ave. Frederick, MD 21701 www.victorianmillinery.com 301-694-8950 Comment Gentles of The List What a fascinating series of questions this thread raises for our discussion and learning! We do know that it was proper etiquette to expect to kiss the Rings of our own temporal Rulers, of all Princes of the Church and other Lords Spiritual [Cardinals, Archibishops, and Bishops - and therfore our Religious Superiors], during the medieval Period. I am sure the ring-hand had to be offered first, though, and it was an expected gesture of submissive respect. So there was no point in offering your Ring of Office to be kissed by anyone who was not your Subject, Liegeman, or spiritual Inferior, and thus unlikely to naturally aquiesce to this mark of Respect. An Ambassador might bow before a Foreign Ruler on being Presented, but - not being a Subject of said Ruler, and being already Liege-sworn to his Own Overlord - would the Diplomat kiss the Ring of Office of a foreign Lord Temporal? I think perhaps not. The kissing of Ladies hands, though - ...? When did the custom begin? Did this originate with the French Courts Of Love in Provence? Since I re-enact a Senior King's Officer of the late 15th Century, I, too would be most interested to be enlightened as to the minutiæ of this custom. My Persona had no Social Equals in Jersey, as King's Governor, even the 5 Hauts Seigneurs ranking below the Governor in Precedence, - but might well have been courtly enough to, at the least, bow-over the hands of local- or visitng- high-born Ladies, out of Chivalry, and respect to their Femininity and noble Birth. Does any Lister know of this subject being mentioned in sufficient detail to enlighten us further, in any medieval Book about Courtly etiquette? Yours in Service, Matthew [Messire Matthew Baker, Governor Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto - Si vis pacem, para bellum (Trans:-if you wish for Peace, prepare for War) ] aka. - Julian Wilson, - late-medieval Re-enactor; Herald, Historian, Master Artisan to The Companie of the Duke's Leopards, [the Island of olde Jersey's only mediæval living-history Group] Meet us at www.dukesleopards.org [input] - - Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: warming a castle - Cotehele House
Cotehele House is a lovely National Trust site which we visited many times while we were living on the UK mainland, and our oldest son was posted to a Seaking Squadron at RNAS Culdrose. I do agree with you - Cornwall in Summer is lovely, but for the rest of the year, I'd leave it to the Cornish Folk to enjoy the rain, and the cold, and the winds. Yours in Service, Matthew [Messire Matthew Baker, Governor Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto - Si vis pacem, para bellum (Trans:-if you wish for Peace, prepare for War) ] aka. - Julian Wilson, - late-medieval Re-enactor; Herald, Historian, Master Artisan to The Companie of the Duke's Leopards, [the Island of olde Jersey's only mediæval living-history Group] Meet us at www.dukesleopards.org [input] - - Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: warming a castle
Kitty Felton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have always thought that once you built a castle and got the fires going, and then kept the fires going, winter and summer alike, it probably held the heat better than you might expect. Thick stone walls are certainly very good insulation when it comes to keeping heat out - one event inside a castle at Easter, we were going outside to warm up! COMMENT Very few castle museums I've ever visited in the last mumble-mumble years, anywhere in the UK or in Western Europe, have been re-furnished the way they were - so 2 critical parts of the furnishings have been missing - the enveloping wall-hangings in all the chambers and across the doorways, and those fires. Yours in Service, Matthew [Messire Matthew Baker, Governor Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto - Si vis pacem, para bellum (Trans:-if you wish for Peace, prepare for War) ] aka. - Julian Wilson, - late-medieval Re-enactor; Herald, Historian, Master Artisan to The Companie of the Duke's Leopards, [the Island of olde Jersey's only mediæval living-history Group] Meet us at www.dukesleopards.org [input] - - Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Apologies - re-Duke's Leopards new website posting
Sincere apologies to everyone for mis-posting that last message. It was intended to go offlist to Suzi Clark . So, to quote Lazarus Long, I plead youth and inexperience, and long-and-faithful Service . [Robert Heinlein] I prey you Pardon; and - as I do hope for Heaven - do trust that God shall move your hearts to Mercy concerning my Transgression. What more can I say? It's late, and I've had a lng, hard day; and now I'm not-concentrating as well as I ought. Time to give-up and go to bed; - I have to be up at 0545 GMT, and I'm not as bright as I used to be, first-thing-in-the-mornings. Getting older really is the pits. Yours in Service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto - Si vis pacem, para bellum [Trans:-if you wish for Peace, prepare for War ] late-medieval Re-enactor; Historian and Master Artisan to The Companie of the Duke's Leopards, [the only mediæval living-history Group in olde Jersey] Meet us at www.dukesleopards.org [input] - - Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
