Re: Licensing question about mysql_com.h
If you own the code, you can license it under multiple licenses. Kind of like if you own a TV Show, you can license it in the US under one contract, and in other geographies under other more or less restrictive contracts. This is a painful reality to those of us in Canada, as we can't watch South Park clips online. :P On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 4:53 AM, James Ots my...@jamesots.com wrote: In their blog post, announcing the sharing of their work, they mention licensing it under BSD, but in the repository the COPYING file still contains the GPLv2 licence, so I'm not sure what's going on there. On 10 April 2012 02:32, Andrew Moore eroomy...@gmail.com wrote: So what's the deal with Twitter's mysql code...how can it be BSD licensed? I'm a bit unsure about the intricacies of licensing. A -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql -- -- Discover the latest MySQL tips and tricks from Pythian’s top talent at this year’s MySQL Conference April 10-12. Details at pythian.com/news
Re: Licensing question about mysql_com.h
And in europe we cannot watch all the american TV Series online :( 2012/4/11 Paul Vallee val...@pythian.com If you own the code, you can license it under multiple licenses. Kind of like if you own a TV Show, you can license it in the US under one contract, and in other geographies under other more or less restrictive contracts. This is a painful reality to those of us in Canada, as we can't watch South Park clips online. :P On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 4:53 AM, James Ots my...@jamesots.com wrote: In their blog post, announcing the sharing of their work, they mention licensing it under BSD, but in the repository the COPYING file still contains the GPLv2 licence, so I'm not sure what's going on there. On 10 April 2012 02:32, Andrew Moore eroomy...@gmail.com wrote: So what's the deal with Twitter's mysql code...how can it be BSD licensed? I'm a bit unsure about the intricacies of licensing. A -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql -- -- Discover the latest MySQL tips and tricks from Pythian’s top talent at this year’s MySQL Conference April 10-12. Details at pythian.com/news -- Claudio
Re: Licensing question about mysql_com.h
You might not know about proxy services. I am in Canada and can watch hulu.com etc if I am proxied in. Currently I use HotSpot shield from anchorfree.com and they have a free version. Mike - Original Message - From: Claudio Nanni claudio.na...@gmail.com To: Paul Vallee val...@pythian.com Cc: James Ots my...@jamesots.com; mysql@lists.mysql.com Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 10:53 AM Subject: Re: Licensing question about mysql_com.h And in europe we cannot watch all the american TV Series online :( 2012/4/11 Paul Vallee val...@pythian.com If you own the code, you can license it under multiple licenses. Kind of like if you own a TV Show, you can license it in the US under one contract, and in other geographies under other more or less restrictive contracts. This is a painful reality to those of us in Canada, as we can't watch South Park clips online. :P On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 4:53 AM, James Ots my...@jamesots.com wrote: In their blog post, announcing the sharing of their work, they mention licensing it under BSD, but in the repository the COPYING file still contains the GPLv2 licence, so I'm not sure what's going on there. On 10 April 2012 02:32, Andrew Moore eroomy...@gmail.com wrote: So what's the deal with Twitter's mysql code...how can it be BSD licensed? I'm a bit unsure about the intricacies of licensing. A -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql -- -- Discover the latest MySQL tips and tricks from Pythian’s top talent at this year’s MySQL Conference April 10-12. Details at pythian.com/news -- Claudio -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
Licensing question about mysql_com.h
GPL v2 Section 2 clause b: You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License. From my reading of this, if I create a derived work, my code must use the same licence. GPL with the linking exception counts as a separate licence. So my code has to be GPL, and anyone using my code has to release under the GPL too. On 10 April 2012 01:19, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote: Your code might not qualify for the linking excepetion, but users of your code can use the inking exception to licence their product however they choose. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
Licensing question about mysql_com.h
In their blog post, announcing the sharing of their work, they mention licensing it under BSD, but in the repository the COPYING file still contains the GPLv2 licence, so I'm not sure what's going on there. On 10 April 2012 02:32, Andrew Moore eroomy...@gmail.com wrote: So what's the deal with Twitter's mysql code...how can it be BSD licensed? I'm a bit unsure about the intricacies of licensing. A -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
Re: Licensing question about mysql_com.h
I don't think I can use a linking exception when I license my code, as the GPL says I must license my code with the same licence that the original code used. James Ots On 8 April 2012 00:52, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote: Not quite true. Your driver would likely have to be published under GPL but that allows the linking exception which allows users of your driver to avoid having to open-source their own works which utilize the driver. Should someone decide to code bug fixes or extensions for your driver, those would necessarily be GPL. - michael dykman On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 6:52 PM, James Ots my...@jamesots.com wrote: I am writing a MySQL connector for the Dart programming language. I was hoping to licence it under the BSD Licence, but since it uses modified parts of mysql_com.h, which is licensed under the GPL, I'm guessing that I'll have to licence my connector under the GPL as well? And therefore, anyone who used the connector would also have to licence their software under the GPL too? Am I correct about this? I looked at the FOSS exception, but it doesn't seem to apply in this case. James Ots -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql -- - michael dykman - mdyk...@gmail.com May the Source be with you. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
Re: Licensing question about mysql_com.h
Your code might not qualify for the linking excepetion, but users of your code can use the inking exception to licence their product however they choose. - michael dykman On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 2:43 PM, James Ots my...@jamesots.com wrote: I don't think I can use a linking exception when I license my code, as the GPL says I must license my code with the same licence that the original code used. James Ots On 8 April 2012 00:52, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote: Not quite true. Your driver would likely have to be published under GPL but that allows the linking exception which allows users of your driver to avoid having to open-source their own works which utilize the driver. Should someone decide to code bug fixes or extensions for your driver, those would necessarily be GPL. - michael dykman On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 6:52 PM, James Ots my...@jamesots.com wrote: I am writing a MySQL connector for the Dart programming language. I was hoping to licence it under the BSD Licence, but since it uses modified parts of mysql_com.h, which is licensed under the GPL, I'm guessing that I'll have to licence my connector under the GPL as well? And therefore, anyone who used the connector would also have to licence their software under the GPL too? Am I correct about this? I looked at the FOSS exception, but it doesn't seem to apply in this case. James Ots -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql -- - michael dykman - mdyk...@gmail.com May the Source be with you. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql -- - michael dykman - mdyk...@gmail.com May the Source be with you. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
Re: Licensing question about mysql_com.h
So what's the deal with Twitter's mysql code...how can it be BSD licensed? I'm a bit unsure about the intricacies of licensing. A On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 1:19 AM, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote: Your code might not qualify for the linking excepetion, but users of your code can use the inking exception to licence their product however they choose. - michael dykman On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 2:43 PM, James Ots my...@jamesots.com wrote: I don't think I can use a linking exception when I license my code, as the GPL says I must license my code with the same licence that the original code used. James Ots On 8 April 2012 00:52, Michael Dykman mdyk...@gmail.com wrote: Not quite true. Your driver would likely have to be published under GPL but that allows the linking exception which allows users of your driver to avoid having to open-source their own works which utilize the driver.Should someone decide to code bug fixes or extensions for your driver, those would necessarily be GPL. - michael dykman On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 6:52 PM, James Ots my...@jamesots.com wrote: I am writing a MySQL connector for the Dart programming language. I was hoping to licence it under the BSD Licence, but since it uses modified parts of mysql_com.h, which is licensed under the GPL, I'm guessing that I'll have to licence my connector under the GPL as well? And therefore, anyone who used the connector would also have to licence their software under the GPL too? Am I correct about this? I looked at the FOSS exception, but it doesn't seem to apply in this case. James Ots -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql -- - michael dykman - mdyk...@gmail.com May the Source be with you. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql -- - michael dykman - mdyk...@gmail.com May the Source be with you. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
Licensing question about mysql_com.h
I am writing a MySQL connector for the Dart programming language. I was hoping to licence it under the BSD Licence, but since it uses modified parts of mysql_com.h, which is licensed under the GPL, I'm guessing that I'll have to licence my connector under the GPL as well? And therefore, anyone who used the connector would also have to licence their software under the GPL too? Am I correct about this? I looked at the FOSS exception, but it doesn't seem to apply in this case. James Ots -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
Re: Licensing question about mysql_com.h
Not quite true. Your driver would likely have to be published under GPL but that allows the linking exception which allows users of your driver to avoid having to open-source their own works which utilize the driver.Should someone decide to code bug fixes or extensions for your driver, those would necessarily be GPL. - michael dykman On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 6:52 PM, James Ots my...@jamesots.com wrote: I am writing a MySQL connector for the Dart programming language. I was hoping to licence it under the BSD Licence, but since it uses modified parts of mysql_com.h, which is licensed under the GPL, I'm guessing that I'll have to licence my connector under the GPL as well? And therefore, anyone who used the connector would also have to licence their software under the GPL too? Am I correct about this? I looked at the FOSS exception, but it doesn't seem to apply in this case. James Ots -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql -- - michael dykman - mdyk...@gmail.com May the Source be with you. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
MySQL - licensing data recovery environments
Hi all, does anybody know where can I find a recent guide/information regarding the licensing of data recovery environments with /MySQL Enterprise Server/? Regards Dimitre -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: MySQL clustering and licensing
Hi! Machiel Richards wrote: Good day thank you all for the responses thus far. Just to add onto the requirements. The client's business is based around a website that does all business related tasks and are exremely utilized. The idea is to provide failover as well as the best possible response times. Any ideas on this will help us out in making the final decisions. Ps there are only 2 machine available for the databases. With those specifications, I am quite certain: Check out the replication feature to achieve failover, this should be a standard setup. For fast response times, you will need good design and (maybe) the tuning techniques which are discussed here so often. Advanced strategies for performance increase might include using the MySQL Proxy and going for a read/write splitting between the replicated machines, but I'm not sure whether a 2-machine setup will gain much. HTH, Joerg -- Joerg Bruehe, MySQL Build Team, joerg.bru...@oracle.com (+49 30) 417 01 487 ORACLE Deutschland B.V. Co. KG, Komturstrasse 18a, D-12099 Berlin Geschaeftsfuehrer: Juergen Kunz, Marcel v.d. Molen, Alexander v.d. Ven Amtsgericht Muenchen: HRA 95603 -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: MySQL clustering and licensing
Hi! Machiel Richards wrote: Good day all Maybe someone can assist me here as I am not sure where to get this information from and I need this for a proposed environment for a client. 1. The client will have 2 new machines, had a look at the specs and it is fairly good considering it will be dedicated to MySQL. The question is, is the solution able to use 2 nodes without shared storage and be clustered? If by clustered you mean what most products call cluster, you cannot apply that concept to MySQL: The MySQL Cluster product is an in-memory database keeping the data mirrored in the RAM (!) of (at least) two machines. It is especially designed for extremely fast response times, typical customers include some telecommunication providers. Even though AFAIK you can run MySQL Cluster on just two nodes, I think it would be a very untypical setup, and very likely your client's application is not what MySQL Cluster was designed for. 2. Is there further licensing implications? MySQL Cluster is available with either GPL or a commercial license. 3. Is this part of the Enterprize edition license ? Currently there is a Mysql enterprize Gold support contract in place, however not sure it requires aditional licences for clustering or not. MySQL Cluster is a separate product, AFAIK it is not covered by any support contract for the general server but needs one of its own. I would really appreciate any suggestions here, I am busy trying to get the info from the net as well but I am pressured for responses. If your client runs a typical database application, I suspect the replication feature is much more appropriate for them. HTH, Joerg -- Joerg Bruehe, MySQL Build Team, joerg.bru...@oracle.com ORACLE Deutschland B.V. Co. KG, Komturstrasse 18a, D-12099 Berlin Geschaeftsfuehrer: Juergen Kunz, Marcel v.d. Molen, Alexander v.d. Ven Amtsgericht Muenchen: HRA 95603 -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?unsub=arch...@jab.org
Re: MySQL clustering and licensing
Good day thank you all for the responses thus far. Just to add onto the requirements. The client's business is based around a website that does all business related tasks and are exremely utilized. The idea is to provide failover as well as the best possible response times. Any ideas on this will help us out in making the final decisions. Ps there are only 2 machine available for the databases. Regards -Original Message- From: Joerg Bruehe joerg.bru...@oracle.com To: Machiel Richards machi...@rdc.co.za Cc: mysql mailing list mysql@lists.mysql.com Subject: Re: MySQL clustering and licensing Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 00:09:16 +0100 Hi! Machiel Richards wrote: Good day all Maybe someone can assist me here as I am not sure where to get this information from and I need this for a proposed environment for a client. 1. The client will have 2 new machines, had a look at the specs and it is fairly good considering it will be dedicated to MySQL. The question is, is the solution able to use 2 nodes without shared storage and be clustered? If by clustered you mean what most products call cluster, you cannot apply that concept to MySQL: The MySQL Cluster product is an in-memory database keeping the data mirrored in the RAM (!) of (at least) two machines. It is especially designed for extremely fast response times, typical customers include some telecommunication providers. Even though AFAIK you can run MySQL Cluster on just two nodes, I think it would be a very untypical setup, and very likely your client's application is not what MySQL Cluster was designed for. 2. Is there further licensing implications? MySQL Cluster is available with either GPL or a commercial license. 3. Is this part of the Enterprize edition license ? Currently there is a Mysql enterprize Gold support contract in place, however not sure it requires aditional licences for clustering or not. MySQL Cluster is a separate product, AFAIK it is not covered by any support contract for the general server but needs one of its own. I would really appreciate any suggestions here, I am busy trying to get the info from the net as well but I am pressured for responses. If your client runs a typical database application, I suspect the replication feature is much more appropriate for them. HTH, Joerg
MySQL clustering and licensing
Good day all Maybe someone can assist me here as I am not sure where to get this information from and I need this for a proposed environment for a client. 1. The client will have 2 new machines, had a look at the specs and it is fairly good considering it will be dedicated to MySQL. The question is, is the solution able to use 2 nodes without shared storage and be clustered? 2. Is there further licensing implications? 3. Is this part of the Enterprize edition license ? Currently there is a Mysql enterprize Gold support contract in place, however not sure it requires aditional licences for clustering or not. I would really appreciate any suggestions here, I am busy trying to get the info from the net as well but I am pressured for responses. Regards Machiel
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 11:33:47PM -0600, mos wrote: That's just one guy's opinion. :) And quite misinformed, unfortunately. $595 is the per-server price for MySQL Enterprise, which includes support, the network monitoring and advisory service, and more. It is not the OEM pricing. You may notice that we don't publish OEM pricing, precisely because it is far too easy for someone to think they just need to multiply some base price times some theoretical number of units. If you are an ISV looking to license MySQL for distribution with your application, contact the MySQL sales team. They are happy to work with you to fit find the pricing model that makes the most sense. (Or, of course, you can just open source your application.) And I hope we can now consider this horse to be sufficiently dead. Jim Winstead MySQL Inc. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
Why you always talk about *client* fee ?? what about the server? Sincerily, I'm see MySQL is not the best option for a commercial application (you don´t distribute you application with GPL lincense). Postgresql is a excellent DB using BSD license and the last version improve the speed reponse. Someones thinks the license of Mysql isn´t confusing .. It is!!!. In my country so much people think Mysql is free ... I say them It's no free ... It's open source. Two study cases: 1. If I design a desktop application for use with MySQL but I'm not distribute any MySQL client or server and It's my client who install the server and client ... apply any fee? 2. If I use MySQL on a commercial home page ... apply any fee?? thanks, RAUL DUQUE Bogotá, Colombia - Original Message - From: Jim Winstead [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: mysql@lists.mysql.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:58 AM Subject: Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba. On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 11:33:47PM -0600, mos wrote: That's just one guy's opinion. :) And quite misinformed, unfortunately. $595 is the per-server price for MySQL Enterprise, which includes support, the network monitoring and advisory service, and more. It is not the OEM pricing. You may notice that we don't publish OEM pricing, precisely because it is far too easy for someone to think they just need to multiply some base price times some theoretical number of units. If you are an ISV looking to license MySQL for distribution with your application, contact the MySQL sales team. They are happy to work with you to fit find the pricing model that makes the most sense. (Or, of course, you can just open source your application.) And I hope we can now consider this horse to be sufficiently dead. Jim Winstead MySQL Inc. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
Jim, At 01:58 AM 2/23/2007, Jim Winstead wrote: On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 11:33:47PM -0600, mos wrote: That's just one guy's opinion. :) And quite misinformed, unfortunately. The pricing is what I am getting off of your web site. So if I am misinformed, then it is MySQL AB that is misinforming people. I have your database competitors telling me that MySQL license is $595 *per year* because they keep misreading your web page. It's not just me. The whole database community is confused as to the pricing for MySQL AB. And let's not even get into your licensing interpretations. $595 is the per-server price for MySQL Enterprise, which includes support, the network monitoring and advisory service, and more. It is not the OEM pricing. You may notice that we don't publish OEM pricing, precisely because it is far too easy for someone to think they just need to multiply some base price times some theoretical number of units. So why can't they??? Does someone in MySQL AB sales have to wave some mojo over the licensing application before you can come up with a number for the customer? Why not have an OEM breakdown of prices for 1-9 units, 10-99 units etc.? That's how other database firms work. They are up front with their pricing. Why keep people in the dark of MySQL AB pricing? It seems to me like you change the prices from one individual to another for the same quantity of OEM licenses otherwise you would publish the prices. If you are an ISV looking to license MySQL for distribution with your application, contact the MySQL sales team. They are happy to work with you to fit find the pricing model that makes the most sense. (Or, of course, you can just open source your application.) Great. Let's see. I have this one customer for my application and I need one OEM MySQL license. What's it going to cost me? Hmm. Could it be $595? People can't figure out what to charge for their commercial application until they determine what your licensing will cost them. They might sell only 5 applications per month, and then next year it could be 20. Then it could be back down to 5 per month. If your pricing is pegged to the quantity over a certain time period, then their profit margins will be going up and down like a yo-yo. That's no way to run a business. And I hope we can now consider this horse to be sufficiently dead. When you start publishing accurate pricing on your website, then it can be considered dead. And you wonder why people prefer to use other royalty free databases (Firebird, PostgreSQL) for commercial applications? You're losing a lot of customers with this licensing subterfuge. Sheesh. :( Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
Let me present what I've read from the MySQL site so far. The MySQL protocol notice http://dev.mysql.com/doc/internals/en/licensing-notice.html Okay, really confusing. What if someone creates a mysql client without looking at docs or source code of the MySQL client? What if someone simply sniffs traffic and builds the protocol from scratch. This scenario can be compared to samba in my comparison. Samba also uses proprietary structures, but they didn't look at source or docs, they sniffed and built from scratch. Therefore, why is the MySQL AB throwing wool over people's eyes? Is this their view of the GPL? I remember reading on the GNU site a FAQ describing the GPL protocol... If people are going to preach Open Source Software and damn closed source software which tries to emulate open source protocols, what makes it any better ethically from closed source software?
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
At 12:51 PM 2/22/2007, software advocate wrote: Let me present what I've read from the MySQL site so far. The MySQL protocol notice http://dev.mysql.com/doc/internals/en/licensing-notice.html Okay, really confusing. What if someone creates a mysql client without looking at docs or source code of the MySQL client? What if someone simply sniffs traffic and builds the protocol from scratch. This scenario can be compared to samba in my comparison. Samba also uses proprietary structures, but they didn't look at source or docs, they sniffed and built from scratch. Therefore, why is the MySQL AB throwing wool over people's eyes? Is this their view of the GPL? I remember reading on the GNU site a FAQ describing the GPL protocol... If people are going to preach Open Source Software and damn closed source software which tries to emulate open source protocols, what makes it any better ethically from closed source software? There are people who have reworked the MySQL API calls so you don't need to distribute the MySQL DLL library with your application. You can (at least under Windows), distribute nothing but an .exe file and it will access a MySQL database just fine, under the assumption that your app doesn't require the MySQL client libraries so you don't need a license. MySQL AB will of course protest and duke it out with you in court, costing both sides quite a bit of money. My attitude is if you are going to distribute a commercial application, use something other than MySQL. It's fine for web servers and in-house farting around, but for commercial apps I'd want something that has a zero footprint install and doesn't require a database administrator to maintain. I would also insist on getting something with one database engine that supports hundreds of users, transactions, RI, and is blindingly fast and has no royalties. With MySQL you have to compromise between using fast MyISAM tables or the slower InnoDb transactional tables. And of course there is no table wide encryption so your client can monkey about with the tables all he wants, which is something I'd want to avoid if I were shipping a commercial application. And of course I don't want to fork over $595 to MySQL AB for each application that I sell. So rather than trying to look for loopholes in the license agreement, I'd choose a different database for commercial apps. Just me 2 cents. Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
What do the license say about using MySQL on web aplications (with PHP)?? Regards, RAUL DUQUE Bogotá, Colombia - Original Message - From: mos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mysql@lists.mysql.com Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba. At 12:51 PM 2/22/2007, software advocate wrote: Let me present what I've read from the MySQL site so far. The MySQL protocol notice http://dev.mysql.com/doc/internals/en/licensing-notice.html Okay, really confusing. What if someone creates a mysql client without looking at docs or source code of the MySQL client? What if someone simply sniffs traffic and builds the protocol from scratch. This scenario can be compared to samba in my comparison. Samba also uses proprietary structures, but they didn't look at source or docs, they sniffed and built from scratch. Therefore, why is the MySQL AB throwing wool over people's eyes? Is this their view of the GPL? I remember reading on the GNU site a FAQ describing the GPL protocol... If people are going to preach Open Source Software and damn closed source software which tries to emulate open source protocols, what makes it any better ethically from closed source software? There are people who have reworked the MySQL API calls so you don't need to distribute the MySQL DLL library with your application. You can (at least under Windows), distribute nothing but an .exe file and it will access a MySQL database just fine, under the assumption that your app doesn't require the MySQL client libraries so you don't need a license. MySQL AB will of course protest and duke it out with you in court, costing both sides quite a bit of money. My attitude is if you are going to distribute a commercial application, use something other than MySQL. It's fine for web servers and in-house farting around, but for commercial apps I'd want something that has a zero footprint install and doesn't require a database administrator to maintain. I would also insist on getting something with one database engine that supports hundreds of users, transactions, RI, and is blindingly fast and has no royalties. With MySQL you have to compromise between using fast MyISAM tables or the slower InnoDb transactional tables. And of course there is no table wide encryption so your client can monkey about with the tables all he wants, which is something I'd want to avoid if I were shipping a commercial application. And of course I don't want to fork over $595 to MySQL AB for each application that I sell. So rather than trying to look for loopholes in the license agreement, I'd choose a different database for commercial apps. Just me 2 cents. Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
At 03:05 PM 2/22/2007, Raul Andres Duque wrote: What do the license say about using MySQL on web aplications (with PHP)?? Regards, RAUL DUQUE Bogotá, Colombia Paul, Use of MySQL (with or without PHP) on a webserver falls into the GPL license because you are not technically distributing your application. You have to be distributing your application without disclosing your source code, to another party (even inside your company) for you to require a MySQL AB license ($595). On the other hand, if you developed a web application that ran on MySQL (an accounting package say) and you want to distribute it to 1000 MySQL users without giving them your source code, then you will need a MySQL AB license for each copy ($595,000 in total) even if you give the software away for free. Plus if you give your application to another dept inside of your own company to run on another MySQL server, you'll need a license if you don't give them the source code to your application. This gets to be splitting hairs after a while and isn't really enforceable. Sam (I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV!) What is 100 lawyers buried up to their necks in sand? Answer: Not enough sand. :-) - Original Message - From: mos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mysql@lists.mysql.com Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba. At 12:51 PM 2/22/2007, software advocate wrote: Let me present what I've read from the MySQL site so far. The MySQL protocol notice http://dev.mysql.com/doc/internals/en/licensing-notice.html Okay, really confusing. What if someone creates a mysql client without looking at docs or source code of the MySQL client? What if someone simply sniffs traffic and builds the protocol from scratch. This scenario can be compared to samba in my comparison. Samba also uses proprietary structures, but they didn't look at source or docs, they sniffed and built from scratch. Therefore, why is the MySQL AB throwing wool over people's eyes? Is this their view of the GPL? I remember reading on the GNU site a FAQ describing the GPL protocol... If people are going to preach Open Source Software and damn closed source software which tries to emulate open source protocols, what makes it any better ethically from closed source software? There are people who have reworked the MySQL API calls so you don't need to distribute the MySQL DLL library with your application. You can (at least under Windows), distribute nothing but an .exe file and it will access a MySQL database just fine, under the assumption that your app doesn't require the MySQL client libraries so you don't need a license. MySQL AB will of course protest and duke it out with you in court, costing both sides quite a bit of money. My attitude is if you are going to distribute a commercial application, use something other than MySQL. It's fine for web servers and in-house farting around, but for commercial apps I'd want something that has a zero footprint install and doesn't require a database administrator to maintain. I would also insist on getting something with one database engine that supports hundreds of users, transactions, RI, and is blindingly fast and has no royalties. With MySQL you have to compromise between using fast MyISAM tables or the slower InnoDb transactional tables. And of course there is no table wide encryption so your client can monkey about with the tables all he wants, which is something I'd want to avoid if I were shipping a commercial application. And of course I don't want to fork over $595 to MySQL AB for each application that I sell. So rather than trying to look for loopholes in the license agreement, I'd choose a different database for commercial apps. Just me 2 cents. Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
At 05:00 PM 2/22/2007, mos wrote: On the other hand, if you developed a web application that ran on MySQL (an accounting package say) and you want to distribute it to 1000 MySQL users without giving them your source code, then you will need a MySQL AB license for each copy ($595,000 in total) even if you give the software away for free. The last line of the license notice reads: Contact MySQL AB if you need clarification of these terms or if you need to ask about alternative arrangements. This kind of suggests to me that they're willing to talk. I expect that as long as you're willing to pay *something*, there's probably a lot of room for negotiation. It's distinctly not in their interest to eliminate collateral development efforts. And there are already several products out there which do connect with MySQL and cost $100. Barry Newton -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
This is exactly why someone needs to develop a non-gpl mysql drop in client for PHP. This would get around license costs, despite what MySQL AB has to say, this would be completely legal. Ask your local rep from the FSF. One could always reverse engineer the protocol like the Samba team. Also the fact is, an idea can NOT be copyrighted. You can read the source, take notes, or even make documentation to create your own client. There is a pure ruby client under Ruby license(dual: GPL or alternate nonfree software exception). I'm sure there are others. The real thing is, mysqlab seems to be confusing people with their ideals which aren't in sync with how the GPL is written, nor with what the FSF says. They're using things like the GPLs Socket FAQ to confuse people. On 2/22/07, mos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 03:05 PM 2/22/2007, Raul Andres Duque wrote: What do the license say about using MySQL on web aplications (with PHP)?? Regards, RAUL DUQUE Bogotá, Colombia Paul, Use of MySQL (with or without PHP) on a webserver falls into the GPL license because you are not technically distributing your application. You have to be distributing your application without disclosing your source code, to another party (even inside your company) for you to require a MySQL AB license ($595). On the other hand, if you developed a web application that ran on MySQL (an accounting package say) and you want to distribute it to 1000 MySQL users without giving them your source code, then you will need a MySQL AB license for each copy ($595,000 in total) even if you give the software away for free. Plus if you give your application to another dept inside of your own company to run on another MySQL server, you'll need a license if you don't give them the source code to your application. This gets to be splitting hairs after a while and isn't really enforceable. Sam (I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV!) What is 100 lawyers buried up to their necks in sand? Answer: Not enough sand. :-) - Original Message - From: mos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mysql@lists.mysql.com Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba. At 12:51 PM 2/22/2007, software advocate wrote: Let me present what I've read from the MySQL site so far. The MySQL protocol notice http://dev.mysql.com/doc/internals/en/licensing-notice.html Okay, really confusing. What if someone creates a mysql client without looking at docs or source code of the MySQL client? What if someone simply sniffs traffic and builds the protocol from scratch. This scenario can be compared to samba in my comparison. Samba also uses proprietary structures, but they didn't look at source or docs, they sniffed and built from scratch. Therefore, why is the MySQL AB throwing wool over people's eyes? Is this their view of the GPL? I remember reading on the GNU site a FAQ describing the GPL protocol... If people are going to preach Open Source Software and damn closed source software which tries to emulate open source protocols, what makes it any better ethically from closed source software? There are people who have reworked the MySQL API calls so you don't need to distribute the MySQL DLL library with your application. You can (at least under Windows), distribute nothing but an .exe file and it will access a MySQL database just fine, under the assumption that your app doesn't require the MySQL client libraries so you don't need a license. MySQL AB will of course protest and duke it out with you in court, costing both sides quite a bit of money. My attitude is if you are going to distribute a commercial application, use something other than MySQL. It's fine for web servers and in-house farting around, but for commercial apps I'd want something that has a zero footprint install and doesn't require a database administrator to maintain. I would also insist on getting something with one database engine that supports hundreds of users, transactions, RI, and is blindingly fast and has no royalties. With MySQL you have to compromise between using fast MyISAM tables or the slower InnoDb transactional tables. And of course there is no table wide encryption so your client can monkey about with the tables all he wants, which is something I'd want to avoid if I were shipping a commercial application. And of course I don't want to fork over $595 to MySQL AB for each application that I sell. So rather than trying to look for loopholes in the license agreement, I'd choose a different database for commercial apps. Just me 2 cents. Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
On 2/22/07, mos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:51 PM 2/22/2007, software advocate wrote: Let me present what I've read from the MySQL site so far. The MySQL protocol notice http://dev.mysql.com/doc/internals/en/licensing-notice.html Okay, really confusing. What if someone creates a mysql client without looking at docs or source code of the MySQL client? What if someone simply sniffs traffic and builds the protocol from scratch. This scenario can be compared to samba in my comparison. Samba also uses proprietary structures, but they didn't look at source or docs, they sniffed and built from scratch. Therefore, why is the MySQL AB throwing wool over people's eyes? Is this their view of the GPL? I remember reading on the GNU site a FAQ describing the GPL protocol... If people are going to preach Open Source Software and damn closed source software which tries to emulate open source protocols, what makes it any better ethically from closed source software? There are people who have reworked the MySQL API calls so you don't need to distribute the MySQL DLL library with your application. You can (at least under Windows), distribute nothing but an .exe file and it will access a MySQL database just fine, under the assumption that your app doesn't require the MySQL client libraries so you don't need a license. MySQL AB will of course protest and duke it out with you in court, costing both sides quite a bit of money. If they sued anyone over proper use of software covered by the GPL license, they'd lose. Also costing them both attorney fees of the defendant. My attitude is if you are going to distribute a commercial application, use something other than MySQL. It's fine for web servers and in-house farting around, but for commercial apps I'd want something that has a zero footprint install and doesn't require a database administrator to maintain. I would also insist on getting something with one database engine that supports hundreds of users, transactions, RI, and is blindingly fast and has no royalties. With MySQL you have to compromise between using fast MyISAM tables or the slower InnoDb transactional tables. And of course there is no table wide encryption so your client can monkey about with the tables all he wants, which is something I'd want to avoid if I were shipping a commercial application. And of course I don't want to fork over $595 to MySQL AB for each application that I sell. Well, the program will be used to modify/fetch data out of pre existing databases which are used by common MySQL based applications; phpbb, wordpress, etc... I do agree with you though, MySQL isn't what I'd used on a large commercial project. A good example of a non-gpl mysql client would be ruby-mysql (note: not the mysql-ruby project). If only more people created libraries like this, there would be more people using MySQL.
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
I've personally emailed them in the past. Their response was for me to by a license. When I asked them about creating my own client without reading their docs or source code, they still insisted I buy a license. Anyone who knows the GPL well, knows the communication layer is NOT covered by GPL. Saying the protocol is proprietary by covering it by the GPL is a total load of poo. If someone wants to reverse engineer the protocol and write their own client, they can. i.e. the Samba team. On 2/22/07, Barry Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 05:00 PM 2/22/2007, mos wrote: On the other hand, if you developed a web application that ran on MySQL (an accounting package say) and you want to distribute it to 1000 MySQL users without giving them your source code, then you will need a MySQL AB license for each copy ($595,000 in total) even if you give the software away for free. The last line of the license notice reads: Contact MySQL AB if you need clarification of these terms or if you need to ask about alternative arrangements. This kind of suggests to me that they're willing to talk. I expect that as long as you're willing to pay *something*, there's probably a lot of room for negotiation. It's distinctly not in their interest to eliminate collateral development efforts. And there are already several products out there which do connect with MySQL and cost $100. Barry Newton -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 01:39:49PM -0900, software advocate wrote: This is exactly why someone needs to develop a non-gpl mysql drop in client for PHP. This would get around license costs, despite what MySQL AB has to say, this would be completely legal. Ask your local rep from the FSF. One could always reverse engineer the protocol like the Samba team. Also the fact is, an idea can NOT be copyrighted. You can read the source, take notes, or even make documentation to create your own client. In fact, MySQL AB has developed exactly such a thing. (Look for info on 'mysqlnd'.) This licensing comment in the internals documentation is old, and is supposed to be removed. Unfortunately, updating the internals documentation is not something that gets a lot of priority. Jim Winstead MySQL Inc. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
Wow, well that is just neat. It's too bad I left PHP for TurboGears. The second problem is the buzz of frameworks (TurboGears, JBoss, etc) which use/want to use MySQL as a backend. This is really the only issue I have with MySQL. They do support other databases, and its not like anyone is twisting their arm to use MySQL, but the option is nice since people already know MySQL(if they need to send a raw statement. On 2/22/07, Jim Winstead [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 01:39:49PM -0900, software advocate wrote: This is exactly why someone needs to develop a non-gpl mysql drop in client for PHP. This would get around license costs, despite what MySQL AB has to say, this would be completely legal. Ask your local rep from the FSF. One could always reverse engineer the protocol like the Samba team. Also the fact is, an idea can NOT be copyrighted. You can read the source, take notes, or even make documentation to create your own client. In fact, MySQL AB has developed exactly such a thing. (Look for info on 'mysqlnd'.) This licensing comment in the internals documentation is old, and is supposed to be removed. Unfortunately, updating the internals documentation is not something that gets a lot of priority. Jim Winstead MySQL Inc.
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
software advocate wrote: Wow, well that is just neat. It's too bad I left PHP for TurboGears. The second problem is the buzz of frameworks (TurboGears, JBoss, etc) which use/want to use MySQL as a backend. This is really the only issue I have with MySQL. They do support other databases, and its not like anyone is twisting their arm to use MySQL, but the option is nice since people already know MySQL(if they need to send a raw statement. I have no idea what this means. :( First, you were complaining about PHP and Jim noted that we have a PHP native driver in the works. Then, you move on to Python and Java... sounds like you're just flame-baiting. Also, your lack of knowledge about the GPL is apparent. You aren't arguing anything to do with licensing. You're simply complaining that something isn't free as in beer when you want it to be. Hey, if you want to go ahead and waste valuable development time by writing your own mysql client library for your (TurboGears???) software instead of building in the small licensing cost that goes with embedding or linking with the MySQL GPL libs, go right ahead. Nobody's stopping you, and nobody's stopping your potential customers from buying your competitor's software which is moving right along while you re-invent the wrong wheels. Cheers. Jay On 2/22/07, Jim Winstead [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Feb 22, 2007 at 01:39:49PM -0900, software advocate wrote: This is exactly why someone needs to develop a non-gpl mysql drop in client for PHP. This would get around license costs, despite what MySQL AB has to say, this would be completely legal. Ask your local rep from the FSF. One could always reverse engineer the protocol like the Samba team. Also the fact is, an idea can NOT be copyrighted. You can read the source, take notes, or even make documentation to create your own client. In fact, MySQL AB has developed exactly such a thing. (Look for info on 'mysqlnd'.) This licensing comment in the internals documentation is old, and is supposed to be removed. Unfortunately, updating the internals documentation is not something that gets a lot of priority. Jim Winstead MySQL Inc. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
On 2/22/07, Jay Pipes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no idea what this means. :( First, you were complaining about PHP and Jim noted that we have a PHP native driver in the works. Then, you move on to Python and Java... sounds like you're just flame-baiting. I don't mean to sound like I'm trolling. PHP is the most common relation in which others can relate. Just to be clear, my reasons for not using PHP were not MySQL related. Also, your lack of knowledge about the GPL is apparent. You aren't arguing anything to do with licensing. You're simply complaining that something isn't free as in beer when you want it to be. I don't lack any knowledge. What I'm saying is people are looking at what the MySQL website has to say and often get confused. I've seen plenty of people who just have the simplest of questions which are obfuscated by the MySQL website. Hey, if you want to go ahead and waste valuable development time by writing your own mysql client library for your (TurboGears???) software instead of building in the small licensing cost that goes with embedding or linking with the MySQL GPL libs, go right ahead. Nobody's stopping you, and nobody's stopping your potential customers from buying your competitor's software which is moving right along while you re-invent the wrong wheels. The plus to writing a language specific extension not only to get away from the license fee, but to have a language specific extension. By having the extension written in a language, say Python, you have more control(errors, segfaults) than what you would with an extension written in C(though I've never had/or seen the mysql client library crash). Also from the deployment standpoint, there is no need to recompile the source on each platform you release, only python, making even better. I take offense to reinvent the wrong wheels. This is what free software is about, creating new software which may be useful for others. If I release a pure python implementation and it hurts MySQL because they're losing people paying fees, too bad. Free software and such, you know?
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
software advocate wrote: On 2/22/07, Jay Pipes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no idea what this means. :( First, you were complaining about PHP and Jim noted that we have a PHP native driver in the works. Then, you move on to Python and Java... sounds like you're just flame-baiting. I don't mean to sound like I'm trolling. PHP is the most common relation in which others can relate. Just to be clear, my reasons for not using PHP were not MySQL related. Fair enough, and my apologies for sounding harsh (it's been a long week but there's really no excuse for my being rude.) Also, your lack of knowledge about the GPL is apparent. You aren't arguing anything to do with licensing. You're simply complaining that something isn't free as in beer when you want it to be. I don't lack any knowledge. What I'm saying is people are looking at what the MySQL website has to say and often get confused. I've seen plenty of people who just have the simplest of questions which are obfuscated by the MySQL website. OK, there is a mismatch here between what you are saying and what you are describing as a problem for your own development. To be more specific, there really isn't a licensing issue *unless* you are linking or embedding MySQL in a *non open source* application which you are *distributing* as a package. I can think of no real-world scenario under which an application written with the TurboGears framework would come into a licensing issue, as the framework is designed AFAIK, to work with the mysql connector library present on the server running the application (MySQLdb library or the python-language driver, I can't remember it's name...) Where confusion typically comes up is not confusion at all; instead it usually follows one of the following conditions: The developer has embedded libmysqld or libmysql (the server or the client) within the application and does not want to open source the application. This comes into play in packaged applications typically, not PHP, Python, Perl stuff. And, in this case, the developer has the choice of a) requiring the installing user to have installed MySQL separately, b) open sourcing their own application, c) writing their own native MySQL client, or d) building in licensing costs into the application after having gotten a quote from MySQL for such use. The GPL is about *user* freedom, and reciprocity (i.e. if I open source, you open source). Many developers love the idea of *using* GPL software but don't like the idea of open sourcing their *own* software, which is unfortunate for the developer, but precisely what the GPL aims to prevent, in order to best protect the rights of the end-user. Non-copyleft licenses such as BSD/MIT aim to protect the *developer's* rights and free up any restrictions on the developer, allowing the developer to use and incorporate such software in their own projects with no reciprocity of opening up their own source. There are merits to both approaches, but that is outside the scope of discussion here. I do see your point about the sockets layer/client protocol and that language is being removed/has been removed from our website because it has been, as you point out, a source of confusion; I will agree with you there. But, on a general note, I *don't* think that MySQL licensing is confusing, and any confusion thereof stems from confusion about what the GPL itself states. I hear tons of times how developers claim that they fall under the mere aggregation clause when in fact they do not -- it's just an attempt to bypass the GPL restrictions. Like yourself, I'm no lawyer, and Clint, our general counsel is welcome to chime in here... but my honest *personal* opinion is that most times I hear complaints about this, it tends to be just that, a complaint that there is no way around the GPL and that people wish that the license was BSD so that there would be no reason to acquire a license *if needed*. Am I pushing MySQL license costs? NO WAY (hey, I'm in the Community Team!) What I am saying is that I think there are pretty clear lines which say on one side no license needed and on the other side license needed. The client protocol clause was indeed confusing, which is why Jim and I noted it's being/has been removed from the site. Hey, if you want to go ahead and waste valuable development time by writing your own mysql client library for your (TurboGears???) software instead of building in the small licensing cost that goes with embedding or linking with the MySQL GPL libs, go right ahead. Nobody's stopping you, and nobody's stopping your potential customers from buying your competitor's software which is moving right along while you re-invent the wrong wheels. The plus to writing a language specific extension not only to get away from the license fee, but to have a language specific extension. By having the extension written in a language, say Python, you have more
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
But, on a general note, I *don't* think that MySQL licensing is confusing, and any confusion thereof stems from confusion about what the GPL itself states. I hear tons of times how developers claim that they fall under the mere aggregation clause when in fact they do not -- it's just an attempt to bypass the GPL restrictions. What situations have you seen where developers think they fall under mere aggregation?
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
On 2/22/07, Jay Pipes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do see your point about the sockets layer/client protocol and that language is being removed/has been removed from our website because it has been, as you point out, a source of confusion; I will agree with you there. There is one more piece of very confusing information to more people. I know what it means, but directly it is confusing. http://dev.mysql.com/doc/internals/en/licensing-notice.html Therefore if you use this description to write a program, you must release your program as GPL. Under any type of law, how does this even hold water? The GPL is about distribution of software or a work, not a NDA. This type of statement should never have been made.
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
software advocate wrote: On 2/22/07, Jay Pipes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do see your point about the sockets layer/client protocol and that language is being removed/has been removed from our website because it has been, as you point out, a source of confusion; I will agree with you there. There is one more piece of very confusing information to more people. I know what it means, but directly it is confusing. http://dev.mysql.com/doc/internals/en/licensing-notice.html Therefore if you use this description to write a program, you must release your program as GPL. Under any type of law, how does this even hold water? The GPL is about distribution of software or a work, not a NDA. This type of statement should never have been made. Agreed, which is, why Jim and I have stated it is removed from the rest of the website, but the internals docs haven't unfortunately been updated like the rest of the site. Note that we will work to remove it as soon as possible. cheers, Jay -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
At 04:33 PM 2/22/2007, Barry Newton wrote: At 05:00 PM 2/22/2007, mos wrote: On the other hand, if you developed a web application that ran on MySQL (an accounting package say) and you want to distribute it to 1000 MySQL users without giving them your source code, then you will need a MySQL AB license for each copy ($595,000 in total) even if you give the software away for free. The last line of the license notice reads: Contact MySQL AB if you need clarification of these terms or if you need to ask about alternative arrangements. This kind of suggests to me that they're willing to talk. I expect that as long as you're willing to pay *something*, there's probably a lot of room for negotiation. It's distinctly not in their interest to eliminate collateral development efforts. And there are already several products out there which do connect with MySQL and cost $100. Barry Newton Barry, Yes, I'm sure they'll negotiate if you have a few hundred customers. But when starting out, the first hundred or so sales will cost you $595 and that will dictate how much you can charge for an application. At that price you'd have to sell your software for at least $1000, and perhaps more. If some competitor comes in with a lower price because he's using Firebird or PostgreSQL, he can eat your lunch. He can sell his software for $500 when you have to charge $1000 just to make the same profit. I just don't see MySQL well suited for commercial applications unless you're charging a few thousand dollars for it and the customer is already a MySQL shop. If it your customers are using Oracle or DB2 then they're used to paying $50,000 for software, then sure, royalties are ok. But MySQL shops usually choose MySQL because they are cheap (without sufficient funds) and don't have a lot of money to spend on application software. That's just one guy's opinion. :) Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [LICENSING] why so hazy? Comparing to Samba.
In all seriousness... If the developer is really worried about paying the fee, he can develop his own mysql client. As far as the pointed out documentation links from earlier, the information is there. You do not have to GPL your application if you read the docs. The license of those docs only cover distribution. You can't copyright ideas, and the protocol is an idea. If they wanted to protect their protocol, then the only method would be a patent like cisco. If that isn't enough, there are many other mysql code examples and other docs on the protocol. On 2/22/07, mos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:33 PM 2/22/2007, Barry Newton wrote: At 05:00 PM 2/22/2007, mos wrote: On the other hand, if you developed a web application that ran on MySQL (an accounting package say) and you want to distribute it to 1000 MySQL users without giving them your source code, then you will need a MySQL AB license for each copy ($595,000 in total) even if you give the software away for free. The last line of the license notice reads: Contact MySQL AB if you need clarification of these terms or if you need to ask about alternative arrangements. This kind of suggests to me that they're willing to talk. I expect that as long as you're willing to pay *something*, there's probably a lot of room for negotiation. It's distinctly not in their interest to eliminate collateral development efforts. And there are already several products out there which do connect with MySQL and cost $100. Barry Newton Barry, Yes, I'm sure they'll negotiate if you have a few hundred customers. But when starting out, the first hundred or so sales will cost you $595 and that will dictate how much you can charge for an application. At that price you'd have to sell your software for at least $1000, and perhaps more. If some competitor comes in with a lower price because he's using Firebird or PostgreSQL, he can eat your lunch. He can sell his software for $500 when you have to charge $1000 just to make the same profit. I just don't see MySQL well suited for commercial applications unless you're charging a few thousand dollars for it and the customer is already a MySQL shop. If it your customers are using Oracle or DB2 then they're used to paying $50,000 for software, then sure, royalties are ok. But MySQL shops usually choose MySQL because they are cheap (without sufficient funds) and don't have a lot of money to spend on application software. That's just one guy's opinion. :) Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MySQL Licensing
It is my understanding that MySQL provides two kind of licensing (a) GPL license for free download (b) OEM - commercial license for fee. Question is- Can OEM develop software using MySQL, create database desiged for MySQL. However, during distribution cirmvent commercial license by telling customers to download MySQL GPL version? Should this be legally allowed? Does MySQL take any action on such issues? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/MySQL-Licensing-tf2609653.html#a7282977 Sent from the MySQL - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MySQL Licensing
Hello, I would recommend posting your question in the Licensing Fourm: http://forums.mysql.com/list.php?4 Also, please refer to our FAQ: http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/ Thanks, Jimmy Guerrero Sr Product Manager MySQL, Inc -Original Message- From: I have a question [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 12:48 PM To: mysql@lists.mysql.com Subject: MySQL Licensing It is my understanding that MySQL provides two kind of licensing (a) GPL license for free download (b) OEM - commercial license for fee. Question is- Can OEM develop software using MySQL, create database desiged for MySQL. However, during distribution cirmvent commercial license by telling customers to download MySQL GPL version? Should this be legally allowed? Does MySQL take any action on such issues? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/MySQL-Licensing-tf2609653.html#a7282977 Sent from the MySQL - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Does new Community version change C API licensing?
Kaj Arnö wrote: So: For client licensing, nothing as changed -- but stay tuned for an announcement next week! Did I miss it? It's been almost 2 weeks, and I don't see anything in the MySQL press release archive or your blog. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Does new Community version change C API licensing?
I've looked over as much of the information on the new Community vs. Enterprise version stuff as I can find, and I don't see an answer to this question. Basically, I want to know if the MySQL C API is still dual licensed, under the GPL and the MySQL commercial license. If so, I don't see how this new model is any different than before, except that the commercial version is now more expensive. The practical upshot of the previous licensing scheme, for people that used the MySQL C API, was that you either had to buy a MySQL commercial license, or release your code under the GPL. That means MySQL could never be free-of-charge (quoting today's email from Kaj Arnö) for those people. For that to happen, the C API must be released under a more liberal license (LGPL at least), or explicitly made public-domain. So, has anything substantial changed besides the price of a commercial license? -- Warren Young Maintainer of MySQL++ http://tangentsoft.net/mysql++/ -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Does new Community version change C API licensing?
Warren, As part of today's Press Release on MySQL Enterprise, there's no change in the client side licensing. However, as part of the MySQL Winter of Code and the Connector contest, we have something in store which we will be sharing with you next week. As for free-of-charge, the need to buy OEM licenses is only related to *distributing* applications, not using MySQL in-house. This is how it was before, and this is how it is today. We do not *require* in-house users of MySQL to subscribe to MySQL Enterprise. However, we definitely want to make MySQL Enterprise *attractive* for business users who have MySQL in production use, by providing them added value on top of what MySQL Community has. So: For client licensing, nothing as changed -- but stay tuned for an announcement next week! Kaj Warren wrote: I've looked over as much of the information on the new Community vs. Enterprise version stuff as I can find, and I don't see an answer to this question. Basically, I want to know if the MySQL C API is still dual licensed, under the GPL and the MySQL commercial license. If so, I don't see how this new model is any different than before, except that the commercial version is now more expensive. The practical upshot of the previous licensing scheme, for people that used the MySQL C API, was that you either had to buy a MySQL commercial license, or release your code under the GPL. That means MySQL could never be free-of-charge (quoting today's email from Kaj Arnö) for those people. For that to happen, the C API must be released under a more liberal license (LGPL at least), or explicitly made public-domain. So, has anything substantial changed besides the price of a commercial license? -- Kaj Arnö [EMAIL PROTECTED] MySQL AB, VP Community Relations -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Has InnoDb licensing changed to accommodate Oracle?
Mike, Oracle Corp. and MySQL AB renewed the InnoDB OEM contract in spring 2006. The licensing of InnoDB is the same as before and it is distributed in the official MySQL distros. Best regards, Heikki Tuuri CEO of Innobase Oy VP of Oracle Corporation Has Oracle placed any restrictions on using InnoDb and MySQL now that the original MySQL AB license has expired with Heikki?? What is the name of the new MySQL transaction engine and is anyone using it? Is it any good? TIA Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Has InnoDb licensing changed to accommodate Oracle?
Has Oracle placed any restrictions on using InnoDb and MySQL now that the original MySQL AB license has expired with Heikki?? What is the name of the new MySQL transaction engine and is anyone using it? Is it any good? TIA Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MySQL Licensing
Hi Everyone, We have purchased MySQL License a few months ago. We already installed our product in one company. I don't know if we have to buy another license if we want to install it to another customer? And what happens if we want to upgrade to MySQL 5.0.x, for example. Do we need a new license? Thanks in advance! -- George Vanev
Connector/J + Licensing
Hi Everyone, I've read the GPL and LGPL and all the crazy legalese that ensues and it's still not clear - I might be a bit dense. I would like to release a commercial application that uses Connector/J to connect to a client's own mySQL server (this I don't provide). I provide only the java application that runs as a separate entity which uses connector/J to interact with this disparate mySQL server. A commercial license is required in this case? How much do these commercial licenses cost? I suppose I have a kidney I could sell ?! Thanks! Lex
Re: Connector/J + Licensing
Hello. The complete answer could only be obtained from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Everyone, I've read the GPL and LGPL and all the crazy legalese that ensues and it's still not clear - I might be a bit dense. I would like to release a commercial application that uses Connector/J to connect to a client's own mySQL server (this I don't provide). I provide only the java application that runs as a separate entity which uses connector/J to interact with this disparate mySQL server. A commercial license is required in this case? How much do these commercial licenses cost? I suppose I have a kidney I could sell ?! Thanks! Lex Lex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- For technical support contracts, goto https://order.mysql.com/?ref=ensita This email is sponsored by Ensita.NET http://www.ensita.net/ __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Gleb Paharenko / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ [EMAIL PROTECTED] /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ MySQL AB / Ensita.NET ___/ www.mysql.com -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commercial Licensing Question
You may direct your question to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For technical support contracts, goto https://order.mysql.com/?ref=ensita This email is sponsored by Ensita.net http://www.ensita.net/ __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Egor Egorov / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ [EMAIL PROTECTED] /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ MySQL AB / Ensita.net ___/ www.mysql.com -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Commercial Licensing Question
Hi, We intend to use MySQL database in one of our commercial applications. We would like to know whether we need to buy MySQL license for each of our product installations. Or How many installations can we make with one commercial license of MySQL database. Expecting the reply at the earliest. Thanks in advance, Sujith Manuel.
RE: Commercial Licensing Question
http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/commercial-license.html : With a commercial non-GPL MySQL server license, one license is required per database server (single installed MySQL binary). There are no restrictions on the number of connections, number of CPUs, memory or disks to that one MySQL database server. The MaxDB server is licensed per CPU or named user. -Original Message- From: Sujith Manuel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 October 2004 07:26 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Commercial Licensing Question Hi, We intend to use MySQL database in one of our commercial applications. We would like to know whether we need to buy MySQL license for each of our product installations. Or How many installations can we make with one commercial license of MySQL database. Expecting the reply at the earliest. Thanks in advance, Sujith Manuel. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commercial Licensing Question
We intend to use MySQL database in one of our commercial applications. We would like to know whether we need to buy MySQL license for each of our product installations. Or How many installations can we make with one commercial license of MySQL database. In general: The answer you will hear from MySQL AB when you ask them directly is to buy a commercial license if you are in doubt whether your situation is covered by the non-commercial license. This way you will also support the development of the product. Many on this list read the license as follows: only if you distribute MySQL with your commercial product you will need a commercial license per server where the product will be installed. This would mean you don't need a commercial license for running a MySQL server which is used for commercial purposes and you don't need a commercial license if your product needs a MySQL database to function, but MySQL is not distributed by you. I agree with MySQL AB that it would be nice to buy a license if you make a lot of money with their product, but the current license seems require a commercial license only if you distribute MySQL with your commercial product. Regards, Jigal. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commercial Licensing Question
Jigal, but the current license seems require a commercial license only if you distribute MySQL with your commercial product. I'm sorry, but I believe your statement is incorrect. If you distribute an application (outside of the GPL) that requires MySQL to run (whether you distribute the MySQL engine or not), then the person receiving the application needs a commercial MySQL license. It doesn't matter if it is a commercial application or a free application, or an application you are distributing worldwide or even within your own organization, or if you are distributing MySQL engine with your application or not. If your application requires MySQL to run, and you distribute that application outside of the GPL, then you need a MySQL license. Here it is directly from MySQL.Com http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/ If you distribute a proprietary application in any way, and you are not licensing and distributing your source code under GPL, you need to purchase a commercial license of MySQL Mike -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[2]: Commercial Licensing Question
Exactly: m If you distribute an application (outside of the GPL) that requires MySQL to run m then THE PERSON RECEIVING the application needs a commercial MySQL license. Whether the person in question gets the license from you or someone else is not your problem -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re[2]: Commercial Licensing Question
But isn't it your job to inform the person reciving application about the license? -Original Message- From: DebugasRu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 10:57 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re[2]: Commercial Licensing Question Exactly: m If you distribute an application (outside of the GPL) that requires MySQL to run m then THE PERSON RECEIVING the application needs a commercial MySQL license. Whether the person in question gets the license from you or someone else is not your problem -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Commercial Licensing Question
From: mos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike, but the current license seems require a commercial license only if you distribute MySQL with your commercial product. I'm sorry, but I believe your statement is incorrect. If you distribute an application (outside of the GPL) that requires MySQL to run (whether you distribute the MySQL engine or not), then the person receiving the application needs a commercial MySQL license. It doesn't matter if it is a commercial application or a free application, or an application you are distributing worldwide or even within your own organization, or if you are distributing MySQL engine with your application or not. If your application requires MySQL to run, and you distribute that application outside of the GPL, then you need a MySQL license. Here it is directly from MySQL.Com http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/ Hmm.. this page seems to be quite new. I was referring to the old policy and the discussions on this list about it. You can find the previous text at http://web.archive.org/web/20030605155911/www.mysql.com/products/licensing.html A few quotes: 2. Free use for those who never copy, modify or distribute As long as you never distribute (internally or externally) the MySQL Software in any way, you are free to use it for powering your application, irrespective of whether your application is under GPL or other OSI approved license or not. When do you need a commercial license? More specifically: a) If you include the MySQL server in your non Open Source application, you need a commercial licence for the MySQL server b) If you include one of the MySQL drivers in your non Open Source application (so that your application can run with MySQL), you need a commercial licence for the driver(s) in question. The MySQL drivers currently include an ODBC driver, a JDBC driver and the C language library. This seems to be a completely different story !?!? It seems that the license policy has become a lot more strict. It still is rather unclear to me what happens if you make an application which does not directly use MySQL or its drivers, but uses a high level language which includes these drivers? PHP has been given a (free) license for the inclusion of a MySQL client in the software; does one need a MySQL license for distributing or using PHP scripts which access a MySQL database? Regards, Jigal. -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Licensing issues
To all: I'm a bit confused. After reading this mailing list, and licensing issues on mysql, a question came up to me Since I'm trying to implement a new database replacing Access Database for intranet environment at my work, do I still need a license since I am not exporting my works out of my company. Or is it safer to buy license to avoid the possible legal disputes? These legal stuffs blew my mind away, it is now in the dark, not understanding the legal issues. Can anyone enlighten this? By the way, I plan to implement MySQL production version into Windows 2000 platform running Apache and Php. Thanks, Scott -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Licensing issues
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:23:01 -0400, Scott Hamm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I'm trying to implement a new database replacing Access Database for intranet environment at my work, do I still need a license since I am not exporting my works out of my company. If you don't redistribute, you don't need a license. Jochem -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Clarifying the MySQL Licensing Policy Documents Pt. II
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Greetings All, Sorry for the long delay in following up! First, I have resigned from my position as MySQL AB Community Advocate for personal reasons. If you have concerns regarding licensing and community issues that you wish to directly engage MySQL in, you should write to either [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also, rather than create a separate request tracker for the licensing issues, our webmaster has (smartly) added a category in the standard MySQL bug tracker (http://bugs.mysql.com/). So, let us recap where we left off in these discussions with a slightly modified version of the notes from my prior message on this issue: As a way to cooperatively work to address some of the licensing concerns held by members of the MySQL community and the broader Free Software/Open Source community, we are initiating a community review of our licensing policy documents. This means that we are soliciting feedback about issues in the policy documents that people find inaccurate or unclear. From this feedback we will work to improve the policy documents. Please note that we cannot guarantee that we will address or accept all of the issues raised or suggestions made. The licensing is both complex and is the cornerstone of our business. Past experience shows that we must work carefully, incrementally and with community involvement in this area. As with development of the FLOSS exception though, I hope that we can reach a compromise that is satisfactory for almost everyone. If you wish to participate, the process for doing so is simple. Review some or all of the following documents: * http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/ * http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/commercial-license.html * http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/opensource-license.html * http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/faq.html When you encounter an issue that you find confusing or inaccurate, please file a bug report in the MySQL bug tracking system at http://bugs.mysql.com/. Please check to see if the bug has already been reported - if so, consider commenting on the existing bug. If creating a new bug, please make sure to set the category of the bug to Licensing. Additionally, it would be optimal if you could send a note to the MySQL community list on the issue - forwarding the message provided by the bug tracking system should be an easy way to do this. I would like the discussion to take place on the MySQL community list, as it is easier to keep track of the issues in a single, low-traffic setting. I prefer not to Cc the MySQL General list beyond this initial email, so as to avoid cluttering an already busy mailing list. As for the policy documents, MySQL CEO Mårten Mickos made a small set of alterations to the docs that he noted at http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=118195cid=9987564 Thanks to everyone for their input and effort here! It has been good working with you! Cheers! - -- Zak Greant -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFBL3x8ctLVEMjfMB0RAjmIAJ40f+eyAO6m3alwA4Nb1aZb2dOZ2wCg4w6t OHCGMCl1oMZGxuNfYC/SaGA= =cR3c -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Clarifying the MySQL Licensing Policy Documents
Greetings All, As a way to cooperatively work to address some of the licensing concerns held by members of the MySQL community and the broader Free Software/Open Source community, we are initiating a community review of our licensing policy documents. This means that we are soliciting feedback about issues in the policy documents that people find inaccurate or unclear. From this feedback we will work to improve the policy documents. Please note that we cannot guarantee that we will address or accept all of the issues raised or suggestions made. The licensing is both complex and is the cornerstone of our business. Past experience shows that we must work carefully, incrementally and with community involvement in this area. As with development of the FLOSS exception though, I hope that we can reach a compromise that is satisfactory for almost everyone. If you wish to participate, the process for doing so is simple. Review some or all of the following documents: * http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/ * http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/commercial-license.html * http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/opensource-license.html * http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/faq.html When you encounter an issue that you find confusing or inaccurate, please send a note to the MySQL community list or to me personally on the issue: Ideally the note will state: * where the issue is (which document, where in the document) * what specific aspects of the issue concern you * the severity of the issue (is it cosmetic, minor or major) * a suggested fix or set of fixes You are also welcome to directly file an issue report in the system that I use for tracking these issues. Visit http://zak.greant.com:/licensing/tktnew to do so. I would like the discussion to take place on the MySQL community list, as it is easier to keep track of the issues in a single, low-traffic setting. I prefer not to Cc the MySQL General list beyond this initial email, so as to avoid cluttering an already busy mailing list. An initial list of issues raised by various community members exist at: * http://zak.greant.com:/licensing/tktview?tn=32 * http://zak.greant.com:/licensing/tktview?tn=40 I am currently working on new draft policy documents to correct some of the simple issues and errors, and hope to post it next week for community review after it goes through internal review. Cheers! -- Zak Greant MySQL AB Community Advocate -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: On the licensing once again
What if a company hires me to build an application for them. They already have MySQL downloaded and installed. Do I/they need a license? What if the software is open-source, but not free? - Original Message - From: Lachlan Mulcahy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: On the licensing once again Essentially the spirit of the license is, if a company builds a system of some kind where the database facilities are provided by MySQL and wish to sell that system as a whole without a GPL or other accepted open license then they will be required to purchase a license for each copy of the server they distribute. The company distributing the system would generally pay this to MySQL and include it in the costing/pricing of their product. Does that clarify things any further for you? Regards, Lachlan -Original Message- From: DebugasRu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 5:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: On the licensing once again 1) LM If your software is licensed under either the GPL-compatible Free Software LM License as defined by the Free Software Foundation or approved by OSI, then LM use our GPL licensed version. 2) LM If you distribute a proprietary application in any way, and you are not LM licensing and distributing your source code under GPL, you need to purchase LM a commercial license of MySQL To be honest i don't understand the double licensing issues at all. Does the second part 2) applies to the developer of proprietary software only or does it apply to its users too ? Why a user cannot install and use MySql under GPL and then install and use proprietary software under whatever licence he got it. Or do you want to say that the end user can in general use MySQL under GPL, but as soon as he tries to use it with that particular proprietary software then he can no longer use MySQL under GPL ? This seems to contradict the GPL license terms -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe: http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: On the licensing once again
On Aug 12, 2004, at 2:38, Issac Goldstand wrote: What if a company hires me to build an application for them. They already have MySQL downloaded and installed. Do I/they need a license? What if the software is open-source, but not free? Hi Issac, We always recommend that proprietary applications that use MySQL use the proprietary version of MySQL. This recommendation helps us fund development of the database and is always accurate. However, if you are working for a company, you are likely not distributing anything to them and can likely use MySQL under the terms of the GPL - it should not matter if they download and install MySQL before or after the work starts. Also, there is no problem selling software that is based on GPL-licensed MySQL and other GPL-licensed software (or some other Free Software*/Open Source** licenses. See http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/foss-exception.html for a list of licenses that are accepted in addition to the GPL.) * See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html for more information ** See http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php for more information Cheers! -- Zak Greant MySQL AB Community Advocate -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On the licensing once again
1) LM If your software is licensed under either the GPL-compatible Free Software LM License as defined by the Free Software Foundation or approved by OSI, then LM use our GPL licensed version. 2) LM If you distribute a proprietary application in any way, and you are not LM licensing and distributing your source code under GPL, you need to purchase LM a commercial license of MySQL To be honest i don't understand the double licensing issues at all. Does the second part 2) applies to the developer of proprietary software only or does it apply to its users too ? Why a user cannot install and use MySql under GPL and then install and use proprietary software under whatever licence he got it. Or do you want to say that the end user can in general use MySQL under GPL, but as soon as he tries to use it with that particular proprietary software then he can no longer use MySQL under GPL ? This seems to contradict the GPL license terms -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: On the licensing once again
On Aug 11, 2004, at 1:21, DebugasRu wrote: 1) LM If your software is licensed under either the GPL-compatible Free Software LM License as defined by the Free Software Foundation or approved by OSI, then LM use our GPL licensed version. 2) LM If you distribute a proprietary application in any way, and you are not LM licensing and distributing your source code under GPL, you need to purchase LM a commercial license of MySQL To be honest i don't understand the double licensing issues at all. Does the second part 2) applies to the developer of proprietary software only or does it apply to its users too ? Hi! The second part only applies to the distributed copies of MySQL. Each distributed copy of MySQL needs to have a valid license. This can be the GPL, or if the distributor cannot comply with the GPL, then they should have one proprietary license for every copy of the software that they ship. To make our money on licensing and to keep things simple, we always recommend that proprietary use of MySQL be done under a proprietary license. This is not required in all cases though. Why a user cannot install and use MySql under GPL and then install and use proprietary software under whatever licence he got it. A user can do this. However, if a developer of proprietary software that is based on MySQL distributes that software, then they need to make sure that the distributed copies have valid non-GPL licenses. Or do you want to say that the end user can in general use MySQL under GPL, but as soon as he tries to use it with that particular proprietary software then he can no longer use MySQL under GPL ? This seems to contradict the GPL license terms Users are free to use MySQL under the terms of the GPL as long as they comply with the terms of the license. They can even use GPL licensed MySQL and proprietarily licensed versions of MySQL at the same time. Cheers! -- Zak Greant MySQL AB Community Advocate -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: On the licensing once again
On Aug 11, 2004, at 2:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you Zak for correcting me. Much appreciated ;-) Hi Nils, Glad to help! Cheers! --zak -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: On the licensing once again
Essentially the spirit of the license is, if a company builds a system of some kind where the database facilities are provided by MySQL and wish to sell that system as a whole without a GPL or other accepted open license then they will be required to purchase a license for each copy of the server they distribute. The company distributing the system would generally pay this to MySQL and include it in the costing/pricing of their product. Does that clarify things any further for you? Regards, Lachlan -Original Message- From: DebugasRu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 5:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: On the licensing once again 1) LM If your software is licensed under either the GPL-compatible Free Software LM License as defined by the Free Software Foundation or approved by OSI, then LM use our GPL licensed version. 2) LM If you distribute a proprietary application in any way, and you are not LM licensing and distributing your source code under GPL, you need to purchase LM a commercial license of MySQL To be honest i don't understand the double licensing issues at all. Does the second part 2) applies to the developer of proprietary software only or does it apply to its users too ? Why a user cannot install and use MySql under GPL and then install and use proprietary software under whatever licence he got it. Or do you want to say that the end user can in general use MySQL under GPL, but as soon as he tries to use it with that particular proprietary software then he can no longer use MySQL under GPL ? This seems to contradict the GPL license terms -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
R: On the licensing once again
What if I sell a web site built using mysql? Do I need a license on my web server? -Messaggio originale- Da: Lachlan Mulcahy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Inviato: mercoledi 11 agosto 2004 13.14 A: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oggetto: RE: On the licensing once again Essentially the spirit of the license is, if a company builds a system of some kind where the database facilities are provided by MySQL and wish to sell that system as a whole without a GPL or other accepted open license then they will be required to purchase a license for each copy of the server they distribute. The company distributing the system would generally pay this to MySQL and include it in the costing/pricing of their product. Does that clarify things any further for you? Regards, Lachlan -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: On the licensing once again
If someone pays you to develop a website for them based on MySQL, you won't pay for it. As you are not selling a product that contains MySQL. You are selling your service and handing over full code to the client as their property. There is no licensing involved in this case. If you develop a product, say, some kind of online shopping system that you distribute on a CD which installs Linux, Apache, MysQL, PHP and your App and distribute that, then you probably should be paying for a license. This is because instead of you handing over full code (and it's rights) to the client as their property, you are placing licensing limitations on it. Some people get around licensing by developing systems and leasing them out to their clients. I think this is a bit of a grey area and I'm not sure how legal or ethical this practise is, in my opinion this case should probably be paying licensing. Does that clarify at all? If you have specific questions you can contact MySQL themselves using the online form: http://www.mysql.com/company/contact/?topic=licensing cheers Lachlan -Original Message- From: Leonardo Francalanci [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 8:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: R: On the licensing once again What if I sell a web site built using mysql? Do I need a license on my web server? -Messaggio originale- Da: Lachlan Mulcahy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Inviato: mercoledi 11 agosto 2004 13.14 A: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oggetto: RE: On the licensing once again Essentially the spirit of the license is, if a company builds a system of some kind where the database facilities are provided by MySQL and wish to sell that system as a whole without a GPL or other accepted open license then they will be required to purchase a license for each copy of the server they distribute. The company distributing the system would generally pay this to MySQL and include it in the costing/pricing of their product. Does that clarify things any further for you? Regards, Lachlan -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: R: On the licensing once again
LF What if I sell a web site built using mysql? LF Do I need a license on my web server? The conclusion i have made is that from end-user point of view his mySQL is running under multiple licencies simultaniously depending on what 3rd parties software makes request to it. To be more precise at a given quantum of processor time it is run under GPL and the next quantum (when the request from 3rd party proprietary software is being processed) it is run under other license terms. further more - imagine MySQL running on multi-processor system... I don't think end user will ever understand it :) As to the question Do I need a license on my web server? the answer is - it depends on what software will be querying your mysql engine you run on your server -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: R: On the licensing once again
You're overcomplicating things here.. MySQL is either one license or the other. If for any reason you're required to have a licensed copy of the MySQL server on a particular machine and you buy a licensed copy for it. It remains a licensed copy.. whether you use any additional closed, open or otherwise licensed applications with it is completely up to you, since you now own a license you can do whatever you want really. The fact remains that the server in question is a licensed copy. Lachlan -Original Message- From: DebugasRu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 10:11 PM To: Leonardo Francalanci Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: R: On the licensing once again LF What if I sell a web site built using mysql? LF Do I need a license on my web server? The conclusion i have made is that from end-user point of view his mySQL is running under multiple licencies simultaniously depending on what 3rd parties software makes request to it. To be more precise at a given quantum of processor time it is run under GPL and the next quantum (when the request from 3rd party proprietary software is being processed) it is run under other license terms. further more - imagine MySQL running on multi-processor system... I don't think end user will ever understand it :) As to the question Do I need a license on my web server? the answer is - it depends on what software will be querying your mysql engine you run on your server -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
R: On the licensing once again
If you develop a product, say, some kind of online shopping system that you distribute on a CD which installs Linux, Apache, MysQL, PHP and your App and distribute that, then you probably should be paying for a license. This is because instead of you handing over full code (and it's rights) to the client as their property, you are placing licensing limitations on it. Ok, but if I say to a client (that has his own web server) you will need to install Mysql on your server to run the site I'm writing for you, will he need a license? -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: On the licensing once again
If you develop a product, say, some kind of online shopping system that you distribute on a CD which installs Linux, Apache, MysQL, PHP and your App and distribute that, then you probably should be paying for a license. This is because instead of you handing over full code (and it's rights) to the client as their property, you are placing licensing limitations on it. Ok, but if I say to a client (that has his own web server) you will need to install Mysql on your server to run the site I'm writing for you, will he need a license? -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: On the licensing once again
On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 05:43:16PM +0200, Leonardo Francalanci [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you develop a product, say, some kind of online shopping system that you distribute on a CD which installs Linux, Apache, MysQL, PHP and your App and distribute that, then you probably should be paying for a license. This is because instead of you handing over full code (and it's rights) to the client as their property, you are placing licensing limitations on it. Ok, but if I say to a client (that has his own web server) you will need to install Mysql on your server to run the site I'm writing for you, will he need a license? Look at it this way: No matter what, *everyone* using MySQL requires a license. Here's the question you need to ask: Which of the two possible licenses can I use without contravening the terms? Obviously, you'd rather not pay, so you want to look at the GPL first. To do that, you and/or your company's lawyer need to read the terms of the GPL and apply them to the way you wish to use the software. If you reach a term which you are unable to comply with, then you can't use the GPL, and need a commercial license. But you're entering into a legal agreement with MySQL AB, so you need to read every term in the license and determine, with legal assistance if you need it, whether or not you can do what you want to do under the license's terms. The mailing list is probably a bad place to turn for legal advice (which, incidentally, I am not giving you right now :-). -Rich -- Rich Lafferty --+--- Ottawa, Ontario, Canada| Save the Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus! http://www.lafferty.ca/|http://zapatopi.net/treeoctopus.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---+--- -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: R: On the licensing once again
I think that the license scheme is very simple reading gnu faq: If you distribute your software under GPL you and your customer don't need a commercial license but the user can change your code and give it away with a GPL license. In every other case you need a commercial license. The point of GPL are: - full source of all the code - every work derived from the original must be distributed under gpl - right to modify and distribute all the software (with gpl). So you can not distribute any software that requires MySql (or other gpl source code) without a GPL license. Now a question: Where is the text of commercial license; I have one trouble: Can I buy a license (1 for each server) and sell my application to a reseller that will sell my application, hardware and technical support to the real customer? Santino At 15:09 +0200 11-08-2004, Leonardo Francalanci wrote: If you develop a product, say, some kind of online shopping system that you distribute on a CD which installs Linux, Apache, MysQL, PHP and your App and distribute that, then you probably should be paying for a license. This is because instead of you handing over full code (and it's rights) to the client as their property, you are placing licensing limitations on it. Ok, but if I say to a client (that has his own web server) you will need to install Mysql on your server to run the site I'm writing for you, will he need a license? -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: R: On the licensing once again
On Aug 11, 2004, at 7:09, Leonardo Francalanci wrote: If you develop a product, say, some kind of online shopping system that you distribute on a CD which installs Linux, Apache, MysQL, PHP and your App and distribute that, then you probably should be paying for a license. This is because instead of you handing over full code (and it's rights) to the client as their property, you are placing licensing limitations on it. Ok, but if I say to a client (that has his own web server) you will need to install Mysql on your server to run the site I'm writing for you, will he need a license? Hi Leonardo, We always recommend that proprietary use of MySQL be done under our for-pay license. This is a simple recommendation that helps us fund development and is always correct. However, if you are creating a work for a client who has hired you to build something for them, then chances are quite good that MySQL can legally be used under the GPL. If you build a proprietary software product that is based on MySQL and distribute this to customers, then you probably can't do so with the GPL licensed version of MySQL and would need to purchase non-GPL licenses for MySQL. Cheers! -- Zak Greant MySQL AB Community Advocate -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: R: On the licensing once again
On Aug 11, 2004, at 11:45, Santino wrote: I think that the license scheme is very simple reading gnu faq: If you distribute your software under GPL you and your customer don't need a commercial license but the user can change your code and give it away with a GPL license. In every other case you need a commercial license. The point of GPL are: - full source of all the code - every work derived from the original must be distributed under gpl - right to modify and distribute all the software (with gpl). So you can not distribute any software that requires MySql (or other gpl source code) without a GPL license. Now a question: Where is the text of commercial license; I have one trouble: Can I buy a license (1 for each server) and sell my application to a reseller that will sell my application, hardware and technical support to the real customer? Hi Santino, Good question! I don't usually deal with the details of the proprietary MySQL licensing, but I would guess that as long as a MySQL server has a valid license, we don't care how it gets to then end user. I can put you in touch with one of our sales team members to get you more information. Cheers! -- Zak Greant MySQL AB Community Advocate -- MySQL General Mailing List For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: client library no longer LGPL licensing
On Thu, 2002-09-26 at 00:35, Ed Carp wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The change is made to avoid lots of discussions about when the GPL is effective. Basically we follow the same rules as we always have about when we want people to pay us for a commercial license but now we have a better legal ground to base it on. I hope it will save us (especially me since I have become the MySQL licensing guru :-) lots of discussion about who has to pay and who can use the GPL version. And of course this is totally in the line with what the Free Software Foundation and RMS wants since it spreads free software. We can still make exceptions and allow free use if there is a good reason for it (But not for I like to make money without freeing my code or paying you like reasons). So the goal is to get money out of the people who distribute non OpenSource application using MySQL. We need the income for the much larger development team we now have. And the cost of running a real company instead of the administrative mess that Monty and I had earlier (And that mess was very very bad for my ease of mind). Does this also apply to non-open-source but free applications? For example, we give away Escapade for free - always have, always will, at least for the minimal version of the product. If we develop a non-free version of Escapade that uses mysqlclient, what happens then? We also distribute statically-linked and dynamically-linked versions of the product, and I would be interested in knowing MySQL's position on this issue in regards to licensing. I wrote non OpenSource above since the price you charge is totally irrelevant to the GPL. You need a commercial license if you do not ship you source code regardless of price point. But giving away your product for free will affect the price we charge for a commercial license! We have no standard rule for this since the reasons for vendors to give away their products for free vary wildly. If you send a explanation of the situation including how you make money on your product to [EMAIL PROTECTED] am sure we will propose something. A problem might be since our sales staff (like any good sales staff) likes to concentrate on the big deals you might get inappropriate answers. In that case (but only in that case) you can send a inquire directly to me and I will try to work something out. As for dynamic vs static linking, it does not really matter. See the FSF GPL FAQ (at fsf.org) for more information about this issue. /David - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: client library no longer LGPL licensing
On Thu, 2002-09-26 at 01:05, Ken Menzel wrote: Does this also apply to non-open-source but free applications? For example, we give away Escapade for free - always have, always will, at least for the minimal version of the product. If we develop a non-free version of Escapade that uses mysqlclient, what happens then? We also distribute statically-linked and dynamically-linked versions of the product, and I would be interested in knowing MySQL's position on this issue in regards to licensing. Excellent question and our point also, we give away our non-open source application as well and do not charge a per user/copy/customer charge for the client or restrict copies. We DO have licensed servers and and we DO charge for using our servers. I have been contacted be e-mail by MySQL licensing and am looking forward to having my questions answered. We are still using MySQL 3 so I think we are OK. But was planning on going to MySQL 4 soon. I wonder how this affect the Mascon people (Neat little app also). See the answer I gave to Ed. As for Mascon they would also need a commercial license. We are promoting MySQL development tools so we would give lower commercial license prices for those products. So if you use MySQL in a proprietary product you will need a license in all cases independent of price point. But that commercial license might have special term in special circumstances. Anyway I can understand MySQL's need to grow and would hope they continue to listen to us MySQL developers as they always have. (And I think they will). But I do feel this is an important change for anyone working with a windows client for MySQL and want to be able to earn dinner! And I would hope for open discussions. We all want MySQL to succeed as a DB and as a company. As for listening to you I hope we are still doing it. We can not do it as fast as we did in the beginning since it is a large difference in running a company with 2 people (when Monty and I started) or 50+ like now. But we do need the extra people to be able to keep up since MySQL is now a much more mature product with much more code. And it also takes a bit longer to handle a user community with a many millions of users compared a few thousand like we had initially. But if any of you have concerns about MySQL AB loosing our connection with the community please write me directly. But understand that it might take me a while to answer. I do get LOTS of email. /David - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: client library no longer LGPL licensing
On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 23:05, Ken Menzel wrote: Hi Everyone, I don't know if it makes a difference to anyone, but mysql client libraries are no longer LGPL. see http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/Copyright.html. (original licenses can be found in old source tar files documentation). I think this means, if you have an application that uses mysql as one of your databases don't include the library it unless your app is GPL also (or MySQL gives permission or changes back to LGPL). I guess you could put a link to the web site so users could download the package. Is that inconvienient? Well the GPL client is the 4.0 client. The 3.23 client is still LGPL. As for you app is GPL also we do not demand GPL. We will make a addition to the GPL in the client saying that we allow a list of other OSI (see opensource.org) approved OpenSource licenses also. Like the PHP license for example. So the limited GPL vs other OpenSource licenses compatibility should not be a problem. As for a link to the old client it will not work with future releases when we add things like prepared statements, warning system and other things that require protocol updates. But it still available as a part of MySQL 3.23 as said above. I don't know if this would affect anyone, anyway, but I found it interesting that the licensing quietly changed and I wondered if anyone else cared or if this change cleared up some previous confusion and is a good thing? Most people are not affected by the change since it affects application when they are distributed. But people who has not followed our licensing guidelines before could have to pay us for commercial licenses this time. And that is the meaning of this. We did this change in 4.0 while it was a alpha/early-development release since we did not want to make the change to fast. We did change the website to reflect the new GPL client when we made 4.0 beta a few weeks ago. The change is made to avoid lots of discussions about when the GPL is effective. Basically we follow the same rules as we always have about when we want people to pay us for a commercial license but now we have a better legal ground to base it on. I hope it will save us (especially me since I have become the MySQL licensing guru :-) lots of discussion about who has to pay and who can use the GPL version. And of course this is totally in the line with what the Free Software Foundation and RMS wants since it spreads free software. We can still make exceptions and allow free use if there is a good reason for it (But not for I like to make money without freeing my code or paying you like reasons). So the goal is to get money out of the people who distribute non OpenSource application using MySQL. We need the income for the much larger development team we now have. And the cost of running a real company instead of the administrative mess that Monty and I had earlier (And that mess was very very bad for my ease of mind). Basically in the early years of MySQL we spend all out time on the technical stuff and did the absolute minimum to run the commercial/administrative side. And you can not do that forever. Monty and I also have this desire to work less than 15h/day 350+ days a year as we did the first years. So all in all I hope everybody understands this change and supports it! /David MySQL CoFounder PS: I might not be able to answer any followups to this for a long time. - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
RE: client library no longer LGPL licensing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The change is made to avoid lots of discussions about when the GPL is effective. Basically we follow the same rules as we always have about when we want people to pay us for a commercial license but now we have a better legal ground to base it on. I hope it will save us (especially me since I have become the MySQL licensing guru :-) lots of discussion about who has to pay and who can use the GPL version. And of course this is totally in the line with what the Free Software Foundation and RMS wants since it spreads free software. We can still make exceptions and allow free use if there is a good reason for it (But not for I like to make money without freeing my code or paying you like reasons). So the goal is to get money out of the people who distribute non OpenSource application using MySQL. We need the income for the much larger development team we now have. And the cost of running a real company instead of the administrative mess that Monty and I had earlier (And that mess was very very bad for my ease of mind). Does this also apply to non-open-source but free applications? For example, we give away Escapade for free - always have, always will, at least for the minimal version of the product. If we develop a non-free version of Escapade that uses mysqlclient, what happens then? We also distribute statically-linked and dynamically-linked versions of the product, and I would be interested in knowing MySQL's position on this issue in regards to licensing. - -- Ed Carp, N7EKG http://www.pobox.com/~erc 214/986-5870 Licensed Texas Peace Officer Computer Crime Investigation Consultant Director, Software Development Escapade Server-Side Scripting Engine Development Team Pensacola - Dallas - London - Dresden http://www.squishedmosquito.com The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed-- and thus clamorous to be let to safety-- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - -- H. L. Mencken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPZI6FkbhwAGg7YRjEQI/6gCfcnE/vxjAdVXrUs3LTuNUafxRb9sAn3kT A86wjGjw2TYgqhPfPi9V6bna =P6pl -END PGP SIGNATURE- - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: client library no longer LGPL licensing
Does this also apply to non-open-source but free applications? For example, we give away Escapade for free - always have, always will, at least for the minimal version of the product. If we develop a non-free version of Escapade that uses mysqlclient, what happens then? We also distribute statically-linked and dynamically-linked versions of the product, and I would be interested in knowing MySQL's position on this issue in regards to licensing. Excellent question and our point also, we give away our non-open source application as well and do not charge a per user/copy/customer charge for the client or restrict copies. We DO have licensed servers and and we DO charge for using our servers. I have been contacted be e-mail by MySQL licensing and am looking forward to having my questions answered. We are still using MySQL 3 so I think we are OK. But was planning on going to MySQL 4 soon. I wonder how this affect the Mascon people (Neat little app also). Anyway I can understand MySQL's need to grow and would hope they continue to listen to us MySQL developers as they always have. (And I think they will). But I do feel this is an important change for anyone working with a windows client for MySQL and want to be able to earn dinner! And I would hope for open discussions. We all want MySQL to succeed as a DB and as a company. Ken - -- Ed Carp, N7EKG http://www.pobox.com/~erc 214/986-5870 Licensed Texas Peace Officer Computer Crime Investigation Consultant Director, Software Development Escapade Server-Side Scripting Engine Development Team Pensacola - Dallas - London - Dresden http://www.squishedmosquito.com The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed-- and thus clamorous to be let to safety-- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - -- H. L. Mencken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPZI6FkbhwAGg7YRjEQI/6gCfcnE/vxjAdVXrUs3LTuNUafxRb9sAn3kT A86wjGjw2TYgqhPfPi9V6bna =P6pl -END PGP SIGNATURE- - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
client library no longer LGPL licensing
Hi Everyone, I don't know if it makes a difference to anyone, but mysql client libraries are no longer LGPL. see http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/Copyright.html. (original licenses can be found in old source tar files documentation). I think this means, if you have an application that uses mysql as one of your databases don't include the library it unless your app is GPL also (or MySQL gives permission or changes back to LGPL). I guess you could put a link to the web site so users could download the package. Is that inconvienient? I don't know if this would affect anyone, anyway, but I found it interesting that the licensing quietly changed and I wondered if anyone else cared or if this change cleared up some previous confusion and is a good thing? Ken - Ken Menzel ICQ# 9325188 www.icarz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Licensing--web site is schizophrenic
Paul, Sunday, July 07, 2002, 11:05:18 PM, you wrote: PS At one place on the MySQL site I see: PS http://www.mysql.com/support/arrangements.html PS which says the client library is under the LGPL. PS At another place I see: PS http://www.mysql.com/doc/C/o/Copyright.html PS which says the entire codebase, including the client, is released under PS the GPL. PS Does this mean newer versions of MySQL client libraries are GPL'd? I'll PS be disappointed if this is true, because there are plenty of open source PS licenses which are incompatible with the GPL. This means that none of PS those other open source projects can use or include support for MySQL. PS Which is a shame. 3.23.XX API is under LGPL, 4.X API is under GPL instead of LGPL. For more question about licensing go to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For technical support contracts, goto https://order.mysql.com/?ref=ensita This email is sponsored by Ensita.net http://www.ensita.net/ __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Victoria Reznichenko / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ [EMAIL PROTECTED] /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ MySQL AB / Ensita.net ___/ www.mysql.com - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re:Re: Licensing--web site is schizophrenic
Victoria Reznichenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 08.07.2002 12:01:01: Paul, Sunday, July 07, 2002, 11:05:18 PM, you wrote: PS At one place on the MySQL site I see: PS http://www.mysql.com/support/arrangements.html PS which says the client library is under the LGPL. PS At another place I see: PS http://www.mysql.com/doc/C/o/Copyright.html PS which says the entire codebase, including the client, is released under PS the GPL. PS Does this mean newer versions of MySQL client libraries are GPL'd? I'll PS be disappointed if this is true, because there are plenty of open source PS licenses which are incompatible with the GPL. This means that none of PS those other open source projects can use or include support for MySQL. PS Which is a shame. 3.23.XX API is under LGPL, 4.X API is under GPL instead of LGPL. For more question about licensing go to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For technical support contracts, goto https://order.mysql.com/?ref=ensita This email is sponsored by Ensita.net http://www.ensita.net/ __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Victoria Reznichenko / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ [EMAIL PROTECTED] /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ MySQL AB / Ensita.net ___/ www.mysql.com Hi, does this mean that whenever I write a program in msc which makes use of the libmysql.dll in conjunction with MySQL 4.x I have to make this program GPL? Bye Oliver -- Good programming is 40% experience, 30% skill, 20% RTFM, 10% caffeine, and 5% attention to detail. Oliver Six, CEO CAHOS GmbH, Cimbernstr. 51, Germany 81377 Muenchen Phone +49 89 71 01 93 41, Fax +49 89 71 01 93 42 - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Re:Re: Licensing--web site is schizophrenic
Hi, This is a good question.But who give us an clearly answer ? Regards, Gelu _ G.NET SOFTWARE COMPANY Permanent e-mail address : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Oliver Six [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; MySQL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 2:03 PM Subject: Re:Re: Licensing--web site is schizophrenic Victoria Reznichenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 08.07.2002 12:01:01: Paul, Sunday, July 07, 2002, 11:05:18 PM, you wrote: PS At one place on the MySQL site I see: PS http://www.mysql.com/support/arrangements.html PS which says the client library is under the LGPL. PS At another place I see: PS http://www.mysql.com/doc/C/o/Copyright.html PS which says the entire codebase, including the client, is released under PS the GPL. PS Does this mean newer versions of MySQL client libraries are GPL'd? I'll PS be disappointed if this is true, because there are plenty of open source PS licenses which are incompatible with the GPL. This means that none of PS those other open source projects can use or include support for MySQL. PS Which is a shame. 3.23.XX API is under LGPL, 4.X API is under GPL instead of LGPL. For more question about licensing go to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For technical support contracts, goto https://order.mysql.com/?ref=ensita This email is sponsored by Ensita.net http://www.ensita.net/ __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Victoria Reznichenko / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ [EMAIL PROTECTED] /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ MySQL AB / Ensita.net ___/ www.mysql.com Hi, does this mean that whenever I write a program in msc which makes use of the libmysql.dll in conjunction with MySQL 4.x I have to make this program GPL? Bye Oliver -- Good programming is 40% experience, 30% skill, 20% RTFM, 10% caffeine, and 5% attention to detail. Oliver Six, CEO CAHOS GmbH, Cimbernstr. 51, Germany 81377 Muenchen Phone +49 89 71 01 93 41, Fax +49 89 71 01 93 42 - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Re:Re: Licensing--web site is schizophrenic
Either that, or buy a commercial MySQL License - Original Message - From: Oliver Six [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; MySQL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 12:03 PM Subject: Re:Re: Licensing--web site is schizophrenic Hi, does this mean that whenever I write a program in msc which makes use of the libmysql.dll in conjunction with MySQL 4.x I have to make this program GPL? Bye Oliver - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Re:Re: Licensing--web site is schizophrenic
- Original Message - From: Oliver Six [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; MySQL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 6:03 AM Subject: Re:Re: Licensing--web site is schizophrenic Victoria Reznichenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 08.07.2002 12:01:01: Paul, Sunday, July 07, 2002, 11:05:18 PM, you wrote: PS At one place on the MySQL site I see: PS http://www.mysql.com/support/arrangements.html PS which says the client library is under the LGPL. PS At another place I see: PS http://www.mysql.com/doc/C/o/Copyright.html PS which says the entire codebase, including the client, is released under PS the GPL. PS Does this mean newer versions of MySQL client libraries are GPL'd? I'll PS be disappointed if this is true, because there are plenty of open source PS licenses which are incompatible with the GPL. This means that none of PS those other open source projects can use or include support for MySQL. PS Which is a shame. 3.23.XX API is under LGPL, 4.X API is under GPL instead of LGPL. For more question about licensing go to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For technical support contracts, goto https://order.mysql.com/?ref=ensita This email is sponsored by Ensita.net http://www.ensita.net/ __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Victoria Reznichenko / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ [EMAIL PROTECTED] /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ MySQL AB / Ensita.net ___/ www.mysql.com Hi, does this mean that whenever I write a program in msc which makes use of the libmysql.dll in conjunction with MySQL 4.x I have to make this program GPL? Bye Oliver If you _distribute_ it, yes. That's when GPL license clauses come into effect. -Mark - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Licensing--web site is schizophrenic
At one place on the MySQL site I see: http://www.mysql.com/support/arrangements.html which says the client library is under the LGPL. At another place I see: http://www.mysql.com/doc/C/o/Copyright.html which says the entire codebase, including the client, is released under the GPL. Does this mean newer versions of MySQL client libraries are GPL'd? I'll be disappointed if this is true, because there are plenty of open source licenses which are incompatible with the GPL. This means that none of those other open source projects can use or include support for MySQL. Which is a shame. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Windows Version of MySQL licensing question?
I read in Paul's book that to use MySQL on a Windows platform you need to pay for it. I have downloaded a version of the server and client software from the official MySQL.com site and installed it on XP without incident. Paul also writes that the version for windows will be shareware only. This seems not to be the case I have had my server 3.23.43-nt up and running now for some months. I only use the server for my own uni work but I am curious as to what is the real deal. Anyone? Thanks lots David Ayliffe ICQ# 125646758 Query table database - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Windows Version of MySQL licensing question?
David Ayliffe a écrit : I read in Paul's book that to use MySQL on a Windows platform you need to pay for it. I have downloaded a version of the server and client software from the official MySQL.com site and installed it on XP without incident. Paul also writes that the version for windows will be shareware only. This seems not to be the case I have had my server 3.23.43-nt up and running now for some months. I only use the server for my own uni work but I am curious as to what is the real deal. Anyone? Thanks lots David Ayliffe ICQ# 125646758 Query table database Hi, MySQL licensing has changed since Paul's book was published. You should check MySQL site for up to date information: http://www.mysql.com/support/arrangements.html Regards -- Joseph Bueno NetClub/Trader.com - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Windows Version of MySQL licensing question?
At 20:31 12/02/2002 +, David Ayliffe wrote: Hi! You can assume that the Windows License Terms is the same than Unix version. The shareware is a License option that was abandoned. Regards, Miguel I read in Paul's book that to use MySQL on a Windows platform you need to pay for it. I have downloaded a version of the server and client software from the official MySQL.com site and installed it on XP without incident. Paul also writes that the version for windows will be shareware only. This seems not to be the case I have had my server 3.23.43-nt up and running now for some months. I only use the server for my own uni work but I am curious as to what is the real deal. Anyone? Thanks lots David Ayliffe ICQ# 125646758 Query table database - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php -- For technical support contracts, goto https://order.mysql.com/ __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Miguel A. Solórzano [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, FullTime Developer /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ Mogi das Cruzes - São Paulo, Brazil ___/ www.mysql.com - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Licensing
I'm writing an adminstrative program for a hotel located in Sweden. This program uses an mysql database as backend(the implementation is not in use yet, but my intention is to use mysql). To be really sure about this: Do the hotel _have_ to get an MySql database License or will they stay legal without one? I know, mySql is released under the GPL license but I need to be really sure about this. You need to buy nothing. Jeremy =however if things are too tight to find $200 in the dev budget, can I point out that paying for 'support' is part of a separate annual maintenance/expense account, and an annual support payment to MySQL AB would no doubt be appreciated. =if you're going to beat the 'suits', be prepared to play by (some of) their own rules! =dn - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Licensing
Frans Englich writes: I'm writing an adminstrative program for a hotel located in Sweden. This program uses an mysql database as backend(the implementation is not in use yet, but my intention is to use mysql). To be really sure about this: Do the hotel _have_ to get an MySql database License or will they stay legal without one? I know, mySql is released under the GPL license but I need to be really sure about this. I would love to buy an license to support the Mysql team but since the license would be drawn from my payment I'm hesitating.. 200USD is alot of money here in Sweden, atleast for me. regards, Frans Englich [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you are giving your administrative program for free, you do not require a licence. Otherwise, you do ... -- Regards, __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, Fulltime Developer /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ Larnaca, Cyprus ___/ www.mysql.com - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Licensing
Monday, January 14, 2002, 3:11:00 PM, you wrote: Frans Englich writes: I'm writing an adminstrative program for a hotel located in Sweden. This program uses an mysql database as backend(the implementation is not in use yet, but my intention is to use mysql). To be really sure about this: Do the hotel _have_ to get an MySql database License or will they stay legal without one? I know, mySql is released under the GPL license but I need to be really sure about this. I would love to buy an license to support the Mysql team but since the license would be drawn from my payment I'm hesitating.. 200USD is alot of money here in Sweden, atleast for me. regards, Frans Englich [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you are giving your administrative program for free, you do not require a licence. Otherwise, you do ... Even if he uses an unmodified version of MySQL? -- Pål Sollie - [EMAIL PROTECTED] I had a fortune cookie the other day and it said: 'Outlook not so good'. I said: 'Sure, but Microsoft ships it anyway' - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
RE: Licensing
i was under the impression that unless the application will 'only' run under mysql (ie uses a mysql specific feature), its perfectly legitimate to use it without a licence. For Example, if your application uses odbc to communicate with the database, and standard sql to perform database queries, then it should run quite happyly on mysql, postgres, oracle or mssql. In these circumstances I dont see why your application should require a mysql licence, am i wrong about this guys? -Original Message- From: Pål Sollie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 14 January 2002 05:09 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Licensing Monday, January 14, 2002, 3:11:00 PM, you wrote: Frans Englich writes: I'm writing an adminstrative program for a hotel located in Sweden. This program uses an mysql database as backend(the implementation is not in use yet, but my intention is to use mysql). To be really sure about this: Do the hotel _have_ to get an MySql database License or will they stay legal without one? I know, mySql is released under the GPL license but I need to be really sure about this. I would love to buy an license to support the Mysql team but since the license would be drawn from my payment I'm hesitating.. 200USD is alot of money here in Sweden, atleast for me. regards, Frans Englich [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you are giving your administrative program for free, you do not require a licence. Otherwise, you do ... Even if he uses an unmodified version of MySQL? -- Pål Sollie - [EMAIL PROTECTED] I had a fortune cookie the other day and it said: 'Outlook not so good'. I said: 'Sure, but Microsoft ships it anyway' - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
RE: Licensing
I agree with Sean. -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Envoyé : Monday 14 January 2002 2:25 PM À : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Objet : RE: Licensing i was under the impression that unless the application will 'only' run under mysql (ie uses a mysql specific feature), its perfectly legitimate to use it without a licence. For Example, if your application uses odbc to communicate with the database, and standard sql to perform database queries, then it should run quite happyly on mysql, postgres, oracle or mssql. In these circumstances I dont see why your application should require a mysql licence, am i wrong about this guys? -Original Message- From: Pål Sollie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 14 January 2002 05:09 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Licensing Monday, January 14, 2002, 3:11:00 PM, you wrote: Frans Englich writes: I'm writing an adminstrative program for a hotel located in Sweden. This program uses an mysql database as backend(the implementation is not in use yet, but my intention is to use mysql). To be really sure about this: Do the hotel _have_ to get an MySql database License or will they stay legal without one? I know, mySql is released under the GPL license but I need to be really sure about this. I would love to buy an license to support the Mysql team but since the license would be drawn from my payment I'm hesitating.. 200USD is alot of money here in Sweden, atleast for me. regards, Frans Englich [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you are giving your administrative program for free, you do not require a licence. Otherwise, you do ... Even if he uses an unmodified version of MySQL? -- Pål Sollie - [EMAIL PROTECTED] I had a fortune cookie the other day and it said: 'Outlook not so good'. I said: 'Sure, but Microsoft ships it anyway' - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Licensing
Pål Sollie writes: Monday, January 14, 2002, 3:11:00 PM, you wrote: require a licence. Otherwise, you do ... Even if he uses an unmodified version of MySQL? -- Pål Sollie - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes. -- Regards, __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, Fulltime Developer /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ Larnaca, Cyprus ___/ www.mysql.com - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Licensing
Read this, 1.4.3.1 Using the MySQL Server Under a Commercial License You need a commercial license: When you distribute a non-GPL application that ONLY works with the MySQL server and ship it with the MySQL server. This type of solution is actually considered to be linking even if it's done over a network. If you reverse this condition - if his application will work with another SQL server, then he wont need any license. If this is not the case you should really consider updating the documentation. Also, little bit of a loopholes: When you use the MySQL Database Software in conjunction with a Web server, you do not need a commercial license. This should be true even if the system he's building is on an intranet. (the app he's building is a web-app) When using the MySQL server internally in your company. This could be true if what he does is sitting in this hotel and coding his app, and the customer has the full ownership of the app afterwards.. Personally i would always get a license or a support contract if the use of mysql would give any commercial gain worth the money. (ie earning more than $200 in using this new app..) Regards Johan - Original Message - From: Sinisa Milivojevic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 2:54 PM Subject: Re: Licensing Pål Sollie writes: Monday, January 14, 2002, 3:11:00 PM, you wrote: require a licence. Otherwise, you do ... Even if he uses an unmodified version of MySQL? -- Pål Sollie - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes. -- Regards, __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, Fulltime Developer /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ Larnaca, Cyprus ___/ www.mysql.com - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Licensing
I'm writing an adminstrative program for a hotel located in Sweden. This program uses an mysql database as backend(the implementation is not in use yet, but my intention is to use mysql). To be really sure about this: Do the hotel _have_ to get an MySql database License or will they stay legal without one? I know, mySql is released under the GPL license but I need to be really sure about this. I would love to buy an license to support the Mysql team but since the license would be drawn from my payment I'm hesitating.. 200USD is alot of money here in Sweden, atleast for me. regards, Frans Englich [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Licensing
Frans: Legalities aside, why not let fairness and common decency prevail? The MySQL team has a created a powerful, functional DB server. If you use their product(s) in a commercial application for which you are being paid, why would you NOT want to purchase a license? If the US$200 price is too high, then perhaps you should re-examine the fee you are charging. Gerald Jensen - Original Message - From: Frans Englich [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 2:15 PM Subject: Licensing I'm writing an adminstrative program for a hotel located in Sweden. This program uses an mysql database as backend(the implementation is not in use yet, but my intention is to use mysql). To be really sure about this: Do the hotel _have_ to get an MySql database License or will they stay legal without one? I know, mySql is released under the GPL license but I need to be really sure about this. I would love to buy an license to support the Mysql team but since the license would be drawn from my payment I'm hesitating.. 200USD is alot of money here in Sweden, atleast for me. regards, Frans Englich [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Licensing
On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 09:15:37PM +0100, Frans Englich wrote: I'm writing an adminstrative program for a hotel located in Sweden. This program uses an mysql database as backend(the implementation is not in use yet, but my intention is to use mysql). To be really sure about this: Do the hotel _have_ to get an MySql database License or will they stay legal without one? I know, mySql is released under the GPL license but I need to be really sure about this. You need to buy nothing. Jeremy -- Jeremy D. Zawodny, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technical Yahoo - Yahoo Finance Desk: (408) 349-7878 Fax: (408) 349-5454 Cell: (408) 685-5936 MySQL 3.23.41-max: up 11 days, processed 257,921,363 queries (270/sec. avg) - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Licensing question
Hi Shankar, - Original Message - From: Shankar Unni [EMAIL PROTECTED] What are the rules about bundling now? If we distribute a (standalone) copy of MySQL with our product, does that expose our product to the GPL? Or is it just like distributing a copy of Emacs with your OS? (I.e. as long as you make the source available, it doesn't automatically GPL the rest of your OS?) What if the product is designed to work with many databases, but we want to distribute MySQL only as a default database (i.e. it doesn't depend on MySQL for its functionality - it's merely a convenience)? Does that change the GPL liability on our product? There is a recently rewritten section of the manual about this: http://www.mysql.com/doc/L/i/Licensing_and_Support.html The licensing subsection has some examples on when a commercial license is required and when it is not. You will also find contact info there, in case you have more questions. Hope this helps. Regards, Arjen. -- MySQL Training Worldwide, http://www.mysql.com/training/ __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Arjen G. Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, Technical Writer /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ Brisbane, QLD Australia ___/ www.mysql.com - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
