Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 13:47, Graham Watkins wrote: ed tharp wrote: lawyers and university professors and the NEA are not ruining the world, corporate greed is a serious problem itself. while Corporations are an entity they do not have feelings or emotions. they (the Corp). exist only as a group of papers. they are run by people, who for the most part, are trying to make it look as tho they are both following the rules to play and work fair and make a profit. IMHO, as I see it, the real problem is that a Corporations right to exist trumps an individuals right to exist, legally. According to Roger Scruton, whose lectures I attended many years ago, a corporation has the status of a person in law. This strikes me as unfortunate as a corporation, while possessing similar appetites, lacks many of the moral characteristics of a person - occasional inclinations towards altruism, any sense of fairness - above all, it completely lacks a sense of shame. It can, however, afford more and better legal help than the average regular person. I was under the impression it had the same status as an enity as any other living enity, which includes persons Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
ed tharp wrote: On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 13:47, Graham Watkins wrote: ed tharp wrote: lawyers and university professors and the NEA are not ruining the world, corporate greed is a serious problem itself. while Corporations are an entity they do not have feelings or emotions. they (the Corp). exist only as a group of papers. they are run by people, who for the most part, are trying to make it look as tho they are both following the rules to play and work fair and make a profit. IMHO, as I see it, the real problem is that a Corporations right to exist trumps an individuals right to exist, legally. According to Roger Scruton, whose lectures I attended many years ago, a corporation has the status of a person in law. This strikes me as unfortunate as a corporation, while possessing similar appetites, lacks many of the moral characteristics of a person - occasional inclinations towards altruism, any sense of fairness - above all, it completely lacks a sense of shame. It can, however, afford more and better legal help than the average regular person. I was under the impression it had the same status as an enity as any other living enity, which includes persons In American law it's a person - comes from a case around the turn of the century: Dartmouth College vs. someone-or-other. Time we took this thread to the OT list? Sir Robin -- A strategy is still being formulated. Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Tuesday 22 Jul 2003 12:13 pm, Robin Turner wrote: [...] In American law it's a person - comes from a case around the turn of the century: Dartmouth College vs. someone-or-other. Time we took this thread to the OT list? Sir Robin And in the UK it's Salomon v Salomon Ltd, turn of the 20th century, though my memory isn't so good these days. ;o) Yes you're right, it's well OT now. regards Daryl -- When confronted by a difficult problem, you can solve it more easily by reducing it to the question, How would the Lone Ranger handle this? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
ed tharp wrote: lawyers and university professors and the NEA are not ruining the world, corporate greed is a serious problem itself. while Corporations are an entity they do not have feelings or emotions. they (the Corp). exist only as a group of papers. they are run by people, who for the most part, are trying to make it look as tho they are both following the rules to play and work fair and make a profit. IMHO, as I see it, the real problem is that a Corporations right to exist trumps an individuals right to exist, legally. According to Roger Scruton, whose lectures I attended many years ago, a corporation has the status of a person in law. This strikes me as unfortunate as a corporation, while possessing similar appetites, lacks many of the moral characteristics of a person - occasional inclinations towards altruism, any sense of fairness - above all, it completely lacks a sense of shame. It can, however, afford more and better legal help than the average regular person. -- Graham Watkins For me, morning begins when I realize that the soft warm body curled up next to me is a cat. (Kinky Friedman - Frequent Flyer) Registered Linux user number 265254 http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:47:37 +0100 Graham Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: According to Roger Scruton, whose lectures I attended many years ago, a corporation has the status of a person in law. This strikes me as unfortunate as a corporation, while possessing similar appetites, lacks many of the moral characteristics of a person - occasional inclinations towards altruism, any sense of fairness - above all, it completely lacks a sense of shame. It can, however, afford more and better legal help than the average regular person. Give that man a CIGAR! If the corporation is protected by the law, it is *bound* by it, ie. it kills, it is charged with murder and the company officers go to *jail*. If they pollute, they are charged with criminal negligence and the corporate officers go to *jail*. If they steal millions from honest shareholders and pensioners, the company officers go to *jail*. -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: nodex.sytes.net ++ 15:51:34 up 8:16, 2 users, load average: 0.21, 0.17, 0.15 Ah, but a man's grasp should exceed his reach, Or what's a heaven for ? -- Robert Browning, Andrea del Sarto Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Monday 21 Jul 2003 8:54 pm, JoeHill wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:47:37 +0100 Graham Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: According to Roger Scruton, whose lectures I attended many years ago, a corporation has the status of a person in law. This strikes me as unfortunate as a corporation, while possessing similar appetites, lacks many of the moral characteristics of a person - occasional inclinations towards altruism, any sense of fairness - above all, it completely lacks a sense of shame. It can, however, afford more and better legal help than the average regular person. Give that man a CIGAR! If the corporation is protected by the law, it is *bound* by it, ie. it kills, it is charged with murder and the company officers go to *jail*. If they pollute, they are charged with criminal negligence and the corporate officers go to *jail*. If they steal millions from honest shareholders and pensioners, the company officers go to *jail*. And yet when millions of punters swap, copy and give away legitimate works protected by copyright it isn't seen as theft at all. I'm prepared to get as excitable as the next person about excessive profits and ripping off punters. There is a legitimate argument to be made from economics that when the prices are too high there is something rotten somewhere. HOWEVER, the fact remains that too many people have been getting on some very high horses having somehow levitated themselves into the saddle. They sure didn't climb there step by logical step. Breach of copyright is theft. The Millenium Act isn't the answer but then again two wrongs never did make a right eh? regards Daryl -- A real patriot is the fellow who gets a parking ticket and rejoices that the system works. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sunday 20 July 2003 01:26 am, Erylon Hines wrote: Interestingly, this case is the one always brought up when the subject of lawsuits (in the U.S.) raises its head, and the facts of this case are more interesting than just the anecdotal mention would suggest. Why the corporation was found to be culpable was because their coffee was served too hot. Why it was served so hot is the interesting part. More cups of coffee can be brewed from a pound of ground when the water is set to 180 degrees (F) than when set to 140 deg (F). Managers of the restaurant franchises actually complained that the coffee was being brewed too hot, because the cups would soften when the coffee was poured, and they were worried that their employees were being exposed to an unsafe condition. Documents showed that letters had been exchanged between local managers and upper management, and essentially, the upper managers had vetoed lowering the brew temps of the coffeee because it would effect the bottom line -- profits on the sale of coffee would be lower. When the customer was severely burned (badly enough to require skin grafts) and subsequently sued, the documents were discovered, and the jury found the upper management was at fault because they knew, and in fact had been warned on numerous occasions, that the restaurant's policy of brewing coffee at 180 degrees (F) was creating an unsafe condition. but this is why you don't put a cup of hot coffee between your legs in a car unless you want to risk getting burnt there. common sense there. i think it's pretty idiotic that people can sue others for their own stupidity. the problem with america is stupidity, stupid people keep breeding and doing stupid things. i'm not saying we should kill them all off, but let's remove all the warning labels from everything and let this problem take care of itself. but that's just my $0.02. but i can gaurentee if chainsaws didn't have a warning sticker on them telling the user not to touch the chain while the chainsaw is ON, i bet someone would sue when they lopped their fingers or hand off for touching it. if you don't have the common sense to say gee, this is a dumb/dangerous/stupid thing for me to do and could/would/will get me hurt/disfigured/killed, then you just deserve what you get. Mike Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 02:01:50 -0400 Ronald J. Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I'm not being a smart-alec here, but how much of a burn difference is there between 140 and 180? Why don't you give it a shot and let us know. -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 ++ There is no cure for birth and death other than to enjoy the interval. -- George Santayana Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
Actually, that was part of it. The severity is significantly higher at 180 F when compared to 140. Also, as was pointed out by the franchise managers, the cups were softening at 180, and they were concerned that their employees would be scalded because the cups distorted when they softened, to the point that the act of holding one would squeeze coffee out over the top if filled too near the brim. On Saturday 19 July 2003 11:01 pm, Ronald J. Hall wrote: On Sunday 20 July 2003 01:26 am, Erylon Hines wrote: upper management was at fault because they knew, and in fact had been warned on numerous occasions, that the restaurant's policy of brewing coffee at 180 degrees (F) was creating an unsafe condition. I'm not being a smart-alec here, but how much of a burn difference is there between 140 and 180? I mean, would the jury have decided they weren't accountable if the person was burned at 140? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 01:29:29 -0400 JoeHill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:26:25 -0700 Erylon Hines [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Why the corporation was found to be culpable was because their coffee was served too hot. Why it was served so hot is the interesting part. More cups of coffee can be brewed from a pound of ground when the water is set to 180 degrees (F) than when set to 140 deg (F). Managers of the restaurant franchises actually complained that the coffee was being brewed too hot, because the cups would soften when the coffee was poured, and they were worried that their employees were being exposed to an unsafe condition. Documents showed that letters had been exchanged between local managers and upper management, and essentially, the upper managers had vetoed lowering the brew temps of the coffeee because it would effect the bottom line -- profits on the sale of coffee would be lower. When the customer was severely burned (badly enough to require skin grafts) and subsequently sued, the documents were discovered, and the jury found the upper management was at fault because they knew, and in fact had been warned on numerous occasions, that the restaurant's policy of brewing coffee at 180 degrees (F) was creating an unsafe condition. wow, thanks for that! so of course once again, the idea that litigious and greedy citizens are the cause of all the plagues of modern society is dealt another blow. lawyers and university professors and the NEA are not ruining the world, corporate greed is a serious problem itself. they are two sides of the same coin -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 ++ I didn't believe in reincarnation in any of my other lives. I don't see why I should have to believe in it in this one. -- Strange de Jim Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 02:01:50 -0400 Ronald J. Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 20 July 2003 01:26 am, Erylon Hines wrote: upper management was at fault because they knew, and in fact had been warned on numerous occasions, that the restaurant's policy of brewing coffee at 180 degrees (F) was creating an unsafe condition. I'm not being a smart-alec here, but how much of a burn difference is there between 140 and 180? I mean, would the jury have decided they weren't accountable if the person was burned at 140? 140 deg once its served will rapidly cool to about 120 deg this is hot but not hot enough to scald you(defins a 2nd deg. burn !80 Deg will raise blisters -- /\ DarkLord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 03:54:02 +0100 Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 19 Jul 2003 11:45 pm, g wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: The ZX-81 worked programs from a cassette tape - which stretched very do you still have your zx-81? ria, i still have 7 of them in working condition and i am looking for more software. Yup, I still have it, and some tapes to go with it, but I suspect they would not be readable by now. I'm sure I read somewhere that someone had re-released some of the software - or maybe it was just for an emulator. Interestingly, my 17-year old granddaughter says that none of the modern games have ever given her the pleasure that she used to get from the Spectrum Frogger, Balloons and so on. Anne When Rotten Kid was 3 I used to take her to the landeromat with me when I did laundry turn a trash can upside down give her a handfull of quar and let her play frogger(never got into the game myself) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:02:42 -0700 Aron Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: they are two sides of the same coin Wrong again. That's like saying Linus and Bill are two sides of the same coin. They're quite clearly not. -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 ++ Sometimes even to live is an act of courage. -- Seneca Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 03:25:54 -0400 JoeHill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:02:42 -0700 Aron Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: they are two sides of the same coin Wrong again. That's like saying Linus and Bill are two sides of the same coin. They're quite clearly not. OK Linus is God and Bill is the Devil according to Spinoza they are two facetf the same thing -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 ++ Sometimes even to live is an act of courage. -- Seneca Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 01:29:29 -0400 JoeHill [EMAIL PROTECTED] insightfully noted: lawyers and university professors and the NEA are not ruining the world, corporate greed is a serious problem itself. = Yes, it's about time people stop making lawyers society's scapegoats. It's just 99% of all lawyers who give the rest a bad name ;o) Mike -- The man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life --Muhammad Ali Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
The ideas isn't to throw ALL kaazaa users in jail! What they actually plan to do is to prosecute a FEW sharers and jail them (plus fine them into the poorhouse) as examples for all the rest. Errr I don't know if my memory serves me right but didn't one of the movie companies successfully get a conviction on a couple of students who were caught sharing a film on p2p recently? Didn't seem to have much effect. John -- Help Microsoft stamp out piracy - give Linux to a friend today MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 92791912 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 23:35, Inhabitant of Zion wrote: The ideas isn't to throw ALL kaazaa users in jail! What they actually plan to do is to prosecute a FEW sharers and jail them (plus fine them into the poorhouse) as examples for all the rest. Errr I don't know if my memory serves me right but didn't one of the movie companies successfully get a conviction on a couple of students who were caught sharing a film on p2p recently? Didn't seem to have much effect. John The case was settled out of court the university paid off an undisclosed sum (cowards) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sat, 2003-07-19 at 07:46, Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Saturday 19 July 2003 10:01 am, JoeHill wrote: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:31:09 +0100 Inhabitant of Zion [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: You guys should really read this its outragious - if its true! and guess who started all this shite... no, take a wild guess... ok, here: http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/open-letter-to-hobbyists.html :) Wow, APL! I'd forgotten all about that one. I never learned the language myself, but I had a buddy that did. It turned him into a genuine fanatic -- worse than the Hare Krishna kids in airports. It also made a lot of money for him developing software for programming NC machines that would run on the original IBM 5100 desktop computer (circa 1975). He's still doing that part time. -- cmg BTW does anyone know of a linux program that can output G codes generated from a .DFX or .DWG file ? __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Saturday 19 Jul 2003 3:46 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Saturday 19 July 2003 10:01 am, JoeHill wrote: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:31:09 +0100 Inhabitant of Zion [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: You guys should really read this its outragious - if its true! and guess who started all this shite... no, take a wild guess... ok, here: http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/open-letter-to-hobbyis ts.html :) Wow, APL! I'd forgotten all about that one. I never learned the language myself, but I had a buddy that did. It turned him into a genuine fanatic -- worse than the Hare Krishna kids in airports. It also made a lot of money for him developing software for programming NC machines that would run on the original IBM 5100 desktop computer (circa 1975). He's still doing that part time. -- cmg I can't take this seriously. It was late '70s before Microsoft Basic was around, IIRC, and such 'hobbyist' machines as were around were not only expensive, but had the operating system embedded - and it was into the '80's before it became anything like standard. If you were not building your box - and how many were at that time? - why would you 'steal' the operating system? Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
Basic was the first language I learned.. Back when I was a youngin I was given a Commodore Vic 20 computer. I taught myself basic and wrote my first big program... A space invaders clone.. Much Later on when XT's came out, they started teaching basic on the XT at highschool.. the XT's we had were monocrome, had no hard drive and two 5 1/4 floppies. They had a great star trek game though, you were an O (the enterprise) and you had to enter co-ordinates to blow up the X's, (klingons). I wasted alot of time playing that back then... Big diff from what kids are used to nowdays though.. regards Franki http://htmlfixit.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Carroll Grigsby Sent: Saturday, 19 July 2003 10:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users. On Saturday 19 July 2003 10:01 am, JoeHill wrote: http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/open-letter-to-ho bbyists.html :) Wow, APL! I'd forgotten all about that one. I never learned the language myself, but I had a buddy that did. It turned him into a genuine fanatic -- worse than the Hare Krishna kids in airports. It also made a lot of money for him developing software for programming NC machines that would run on the original IBM 5100 desktop computer (circa 1975). He's still doing that part time. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
Actually, the perps settled out of court, and it cost them thousands of bucks! As for the latest, there is a thread going on Slashdot right now (hope the link works-if not just go to htp://slashdot.org and check out the RIAA Obtains Subpoenas Against File Swappers section). http://slashdot.org/articles/03/07/19/1249214.shtml?tid=126tid=141tid=188tid=95 Errr I don't know if my memory serves me right but didn't one of the movie companies successfully get a conviction on a couple of students who were caught sharing a film on p2p recently? Didn't seem to have much effect. John The case was settled out of court the university paid off an undisclosed sum (cowards) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Saturday 19 July 2003 11:08 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Saturday 19 Jul 2003 3:46 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Saturday 19 July 2003 10:01 am, JoeHill wrote: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:31:09 +0100 Inhabitant of Zion [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: You guys should really read this its outragious - if its true! and guess who started all this shite... no, take a wild guess... ok, here: http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/open-letter-to-hobbyis ts.html :) Wow, APL! I'd forgotten all about that one. I never learned the language myself, but I had a buddy that did. It turned him into a genuine fanatic -- worse than the Hare Krishna kids in airports. It also made a lot of money for him developing software for programming NC machines that would run on the original IBM 5100 desktop computer (circa 1975). He's still doing that part time. -- cmg I can't take this seriously. It was late '70s before Microsoft Basic was around, IIRC, and such 'hobbyist' machines as were around were not only expensive, but had the operating system embedded - and it was into the '80's before it became anything like standard. If you were not building your box - and how many were at that time? - why would you 'steal' the operating system? Anne Anne: Actually, there was a market for MS Basic and similar software in the early days. Gates didn't get into the operating system business until IBM showed up on his front step with a blank purchase order in hand. His Basic was used on a both CP/M and non-CP/M machines. The latter computers usually had cassette interfaces -- the most famous being the Radio Shack TRS80 -- but some had floppies, too. IIRC, the base model TRS80 came with a simple Basic in ROM, but there was also an extended version that was loaded from cassettes. (You had to have 16K RAM to do that. Cost about $150 or so.) Liberating software for your buddies was tricky since there were virtually no standards; each manufacturer came up with his own nifty format which was supposed to make the disks (or tapes) inaccessable to any other hardware. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Saturday 19 July 2003 09:47 am, Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Saturday 19 July 2003 11:08 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Saturday 19 Jul 2003 3:46 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Saturday 19 July 2003 10:01 am, JoeHill wrote: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:31:09 +0100 Inhabitant of Zion [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: You guys should really read this its outragious - if its true! and guess who started all this shite... no, take a wild guess... ok, here: http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/open-letter-to-hobbyis ts.html :) Wow, APL! I'd forgotten all about that one. I never learned the language myself, but I had a buddy that did. It turned him into a genuine fanatic -- worse than the Hare Krishna kids in airports. It also made a lot of money for him developing software for programming NC machines that would run on the original IBM 5100 desktop computer (circa 1975). He's still doing that part time. -- cmg I can't take this seriously. It was late '70s before Microsoft Basic was around, IIRC, and such 'hobbyist' machines as were around were not only expensive, but had the operating system embedded - and it was into the '80's before it became anything like standard. If you were not building your box - and how many were at that time? - why would you 'steal' the operating system? Anne Anne: Actually, there was a market for MS Basic and similar software in the early days. Gates didn't get into the operating system business until IBM showed up on his front step with a blank purchase order in hand. His Basic was used on a both CP/M and non-CP/M machines. The latter computers usually had cassette interfaces -- the most famous being the Radio Shack TRS80 -- but some had floppies, too. IIRC, the base model TRS80 came with a simple Basic in ROM, but there was also an extended version that was loaded from cassettes. (You had to have 16K RAM to do that. Cost about $150 or so.) Liberating software for your buddies was tricky since there were virtually no standards; each manufacturer came up with his own nifty format which was supposed to make the disks (or tapes) inaccessable to any other hardware. -- cmg I remberer unpacking my brand new Kim-1 and then proceeding to 1 round up a power supply 2. finding out what hex was 3 labouusly coping hex code into kim and trying to boot 4 thru 500 checking my errors later I added 4k of static Ram so I could load Tom Pitmans itty-bitty basic believe me when the trash-80 came along it was a huge leap forward Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Saturday 19 Jul 2003 5:47 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Saturday 19 July 2003 11:08 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Saturday 19 Jul 2003 3:46 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Saturday 19 July 2003 10:01 am, JoeHill wrote: On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:31:09 +0100 Inhabitant of Zion [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: You guys should really read this its outragious - if its true! and guess who started all this shite... no, take a wild guess... ok, here: http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/open-letter-to-hob byis ts.html :) Wow, APL! I'd forgotten all about that one. I never learned the language myself, but I had a buddy that did. It turned him into a genuine fanatic -- worse than the Hare Krishna kids in airports. It also made a lot of money for him developing software for programming NC machines that would run on the original IBM 5100 desktop computer (circa 1975). He's still doing that part time. -- cmg I can't take this seriously. It was late '70s before Microsoft Basic was around, IIRC, and such 'hobbyist' machines as were around were not only expensive, but had the operating system embedded - and it was into the '80's before it became anything like standard. If you were not building your box - and how many were at that time? - why would you 'steal' the operating system? Anne Anne: Actually, there was a market for MS Basic and similar software in the early days. Gates didn't get into the operating system business until IBM showed up on his front step with a blank purchase order in hand. His Basic was used on a both CP/M and non-CP/M machines. The latter computers usually had cassette interfaces -- the most famous being the Radio Shack TRS80 -- but some had floppies, too. IIRC, the base model TRS80 came with a simple Basic in ROM, but there was also an extended version that was loaded from cassettes. (You had to have 16K RAM to do that. Cost about $150 or so.) Liberating software for your buddies was tricky since there were virtually no standards; each manufacturer came up with his own nifty format which was supposed to make the disks (or tapes) inaccessable to any other hardware. -- cmg Yup - I had a ZX-81 and then a Sinclair Spectrum. I bought the Extended Basic, which included the ability to program text/graphics to windows (!). As I said, there was no piracy there - we bought the box with basic in rom, and bought additional extended basic if we were interested in programming. I didn't know anyone else at that time that had the same interest, so there was never a question of piracy. I learned by typing in programs listed in magazines, finding that they didn't work, then working throught the logic to find out why and correcting them. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Saturday 19 Jul 2003 4:14 pm, Frankie wrote: Basic was the first language I learned.. Back when I was a youngin I was given a Commodore Vic 20 computer. I taught myself basic and wrote my first big program... A space invaders clone.. Much Later on when XT's came out, they started teaching basic on the XT at highschool.. the XT's we had were monocrome, had no hard drive and two 5 1/4 floppies. They had a great star trek game though, you were an O (the enterprise) and you had to enter co-ordinates to blow up the X's, (klingons). I wasted alot of time playing that back then... Big diff from what kids are used to nowdays though.. The ZX-81 worked programs from a cassette tape - which stretched very quickly and soon became useless, so you had to have a backup tape. Also, I had the 16KB (Yes, KB!) memory pack, strapped on the back with insultating tape to stop wobble. You would work all evening on a bit of programming, then at 23:30 you would have a 'white-out' and it was all lost. That's how I learned the value of backups g Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
The ZX-81 worked programs from a cassette tape - which stretched very quickly and soon became useless, so you had to have a backup tape. Also, I had the 16KB (Yes, KB!) memory pack, strapped on the back with insultating tape to stop wobble. You would work all evening on a bit of programming, then at 23:30 you would have a 'white-out' and it was all lost. That's how I learned the value of backups g Those were the days! We had the same thing. Then, dad bought the Timex Sinclair 2068, and a disk drive controller from Oliger. No case, just a PCBA that plugged into the back of the computer. We were cruisin then: 5 1/4 floppies were so much better than tape! Imagine the day when bootup took .5 seconds and the entire state of a machine (and i mean every byte of ram) could be saved/loaded at the touch of a button in 10 seconds. Also a great feature when you were trying to get farther along in a game. Dad and i used to program that thing together. Ahhh, Anne, thanks for the nostalgia again. For my dad, it's not just nostalgia: he still uses that computer every once-in-ahile. eric Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sat, 2003-07-19 at 22:16, Anne Wilson wrote: On Saturday 19 Jul 2003 4:14 pm, Frankie wrote: Basic was the first language I learned.. Back when I was a youngin I was given a Commodore Vic 20 computer. I taught myself basic and wrote my first big program... A space invaders clone.. snip The ZX-81 worked programs from a cassette tape - which stretched very quickly and soon became useless, so you had to have a backup tape. Also, I had the 16KB (Yes, KB!) memory pack, strapped on the back with insultating tape to stop wobble. You would work all evening on a bit of programming, then at 23:30 you would have a 'white-out' and it was all lost. That's how I learned the value of backups g Anne ZX81 - I got the DIY kit, had to solder together myself. Could do some incredible things in 1K of memory, (e.g. space invaders) until I could afford the 16K add-on. I've still got it, and an add-on board with EPROM with kernel - can't remeber what it did. Have to sort it out. Then moved onto the Tandy Color Computer using MS-Basic, but preferred to run OS-9 from disk. Paul M Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
Anne Wilson wrote: The ZX-81 worked programs from a cassette tape - which stretched very do you still have your zx-81? ria, i still have 7 of them in working condition and i am looking for more software. peace out. tc,hago. g . -- =+= think green... save a tree, save a life, save time, save bandwidth, save storage. send email: text/plain - disable pgp/gpg/geek code attachments. =+= if you are proud to be an american, then buy made in america. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
COCO forever! MRW - Original Message - From: Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users. On Sat, 2003-07-19 at 22:16, Anne Wilson wrote: On Saturday 19 Jul 2003 4:14 pm, Frankie wrote: Basic was the first language I learned.. Back when I was a youngin I was given a Commodore Vic 20 computer. I taught myself basic and wrote my first big program... A space invaders clone.. snip The ZX-81 worked programs from a cassette tape - which stretched very quickly and soon became useless, so you had to have a backup tape. Also, I had the 16KB (Yes, KB!) memory pack, strapped on the back with insultating tape to stop wobble. You would work all evening on a bit of programming, then at 23:30 you would have a 'white-out' and it was all lost. That's how I learned the value of backups g Anne ZX81 - I got the DIY kit, had to solder together myself. Could do some incredible things in 1K of memory, (e.g. space invaders) until I could afford the 16K add-on. I've still got it, and an add-on board with EPROM with kernel - can't remeber what it did. Have to sort it out. Then moved onto the Tandy Color Computer using MS-Basic, but preferred to run OS-9 from disk. Paul M Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 7/15/2003 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 03:54:02 +0100 Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Interestingly, my 17-year old granddaughter says that none of the modern games have ever given her the pleasure that she used to get from the Spectrum Frogger, Balloons and so on. I wish I had my old Commodore 64 back. That thing had some great games, like jumpman, David's Midnight Magic (pinball), Lode Runner, Raid on Bungeling Bay, oh, the hours...and I always liked Frogger! -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 ++ Sometimes you get an almost irresistible urge to go on living. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
In most Western countries, much of the wealth of middle class people is transferred to lawyers via the likes of lawsuits against a restaurant for serving hot coffee (spilled WHILE driving) AND unconstitutional divorce/custody laws, where sharks (lawyers) must be hired to DEFEND ones right to still be a parent post divorce, rather than a visitor or mere wallet. More people need to REFUSE to use lawyers, learn law, and become the only person in the last 4 years to have a circuit court custody decision overturned in WI. On Friday 18 July 2003 07:21 pm, rikona wrote: Hello JoeHill, Friday, July 18, 2003, 2:19:28 PM, you wrote: J and he's got lawyers! even Orwell, as pessimistic as that novel J was, never saw that one coming. God help us all. Makes sense currently. First, we transfer manufacturing offshore, than we transfer services offshore. What's left? The big money is in suing anybody in sight. Lawyers will prosper. It's no accident we think of them as sharks. Sharks have survived for a long time, while other creatures perished. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
Interestingly, this case is the one always brought up when the subject of lawsuits (in the U.S.) raises its head, and the facts of this case are more interesting than just the anecdotal mention would suggest. Why the corporation was found to be culpable was because their coffee was served too hot. Why it was served so hot is the interesting part. More cups of coffee can be brewed from a pound of ground when the water is set to 180 degrees (F) than when set to 140 deg (F). Managers of the restaurant franchises actually complained that the coffee was being brewed too hot, because the cups would soften when the coffee was poured, and they were worried that their employees were being exposed to an unsafe condition. Documents showed that letters had been exchanged between local managers and upper management, and essentially, the upper managers had vetoed lowering the brew temps of the coffeee because it would effect the bottom line -- profits on the sale of coffee would be lower. When the customer was severely burned (badly enough to require skin grafts) and subsequently sued, the documents were discovered, and the jury found the upper management was at fault because they knew, and in fact had been warned on numerous occasions, that the restaurant's policy of brewing coffee at 180 degrees (F) was creating an unsafe condition. On Saturday 19 July 2003 09:00 pm, Keith wrote: In most Western countries, much of the wealth of middle class people is transferred to lawyers via the likes of lawsuits against a restaurant for serving hot coffee (spilled WHILE driving) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:26:25 -0700 Erylon Hines [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Why the corporation was found to be culpable was because their coffee was served too hot. Why it was served so hot is the interesting part. More cups of coffee can be brewed from a pound of ground when the water is set to 180 degrees (F) than when set to 140 deg (F). Managers of the restaurant franchises actually complained that the coffee was being brewed too hot, because the cups would soften when the coffee was poured, and they were worried that their employees were being exposed to an unsafe condition. Documents showed that letters had been exchanged between local managers and upper management, and essentially, the upper managers had vetoed lowering the brew temps of the coffeee because it would effect the bottom line -- profits on the sale of coffee would be lower. When the customer was severely burned (badly enough to require skin grafts) and subsequently sued, the documents were discovered, and the jury found the upper management was at fault because they knew, and in fact had been warned on numerous occasions, that the restaurant's policy of brewing coffee at 180 degrees (F) was creating an unsafe condition. wow, thanks for that! so of course once again, the idea that litigious and greedy citizens are the cause of all the plagues of modern society is dealt another blow. lawyers and university professors and the NEA are not ruining the world, corporate greed is a serious problem itself. -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 ++ I didn't believe in reincarnation in any of my other lives. I don't see why I should have to believe in it in this one. -- Strange de Jim Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sunday 20 July 2003 01:26 am, Erylon Hines wrote: upper management was at fault because they knew, and in fact had been warned on numerous occasions, that the restaurant's policy of brewing coffee at 180 degrees (F) was creating an unsafe condition. I'm not being a smart-alec here, but how much of a burn difference is there between 140 and 180? I mean, would the jury have decided they weren't accountable if the person was burned at 140? -- /\ DarkLord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
It likely is true. I'm not in California, so I cannot say definitively. However, here is a website that will allow you to research Mr. Berman and any other politician you want to know about. http://opengov.media.mit.edu/DBD/CACHE//000/400/025/ Inhabitant of Zion wrote: Hi You guys should really read this its outragious - if its true! http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/31800.html John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
- Original Message - From: Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mandrake Newbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users. On Sat, 2003-07-19 at 01:31, Inhabitant of Zion wrote: Hi You guys should really read this its outragious - if its true! http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/31800.html John Very typical of US administrations to place more emphasis on catching low end crime instead of focusing on say, uh, terrorist activity, drug traffic, mafia(s), violent crime, drunk driving...and of course, the courts will benefit from high legal costs, lawyers will benefit, and of course, the RIAA will benefit...the artists will still get schtupped like they've been getting schtupped and ditto with the public. If recording music is so illegal, then they shouldn't sell cassette recorders - because you can tape copyrighted music from the radio...but y'all don't see'em jumping on THAT bandwagon, now do ya? I'm just glad i don't live in the states...(if that does happen) But i agree with what Stephen says. It's all yet another means by which THEY want to control content and media on the internet. By playing the games they're playingn, they're only going to make it worse, anyways. Viva the pirate! -- Sat Jul 19 01:45:00 EST 2003 01:45:00 up 4 days, 17:48, 2 users, load average: 0.37, 0.43, 0.41 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Tracers work both ways -- Murphy's Military Laws n103 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Sat, 2003-07-19 at 01:31, Inhabitant of Zion wrote: Hi You guys should really read this its outragious - if its true! http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/31800.html John I think I'd have a lot more sympathy for the RIAA if one of their major contributers weren't Sony Music. Or if Sony stopped selling CD-R/CD-RW disks recorders and MP3 players. Seems like hypocrisy to me. Paul M. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Friday 18 July 2003 11:31 am, Inhabitant of Zion wrote: Hi You guys should really read this its outragious - if its true! http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/31800.html John it'll never happen. the jails would be completely overloaded, as if they aren't already. i'll admit, i use kazaa. they won't get everyone into jail, that's for certain. this is where our government falls short on a lot of issues..to stop something that's considered illegial, go to the SOURCE, just like the war on drugs, they go after a lot of the small time dealers and usersgo to the main sourcesif you eliminate the supply, no one can do anything, correct? if i remember everything correctly, it was Metallica that started this whole war on P2P file trading, because they wanted everyone to buy their albums to find out that they turned from a once excellent group to a bunch of washed up has beens who's music completely sucks (just my opinion). i won't even download their music anyway! :) Mike Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On 18 Jul 2003 19:32:42 +0300, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I'd have a lot more sympathy for the RIAA if one of their major contributers weren't Sony Music. Or if Sony stopped selling CD-R/CD-RW disks recorders and MP3 players. Seems like hypocrisy to me. I think it's consistent. They're trying to stop the sharing of music between people, not the transferring of music between media of any given person. I'm not agreeing with it--just making the point. Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
Hello Inhabitant, Friday, July 18, 2003, 8:31:09 AM, you wrote: IoZ You guys should really read this its outragious Yes it is. Always follow the money. Berman gets about $100,000 a year from the entertainment industry. For that much money, he'll do outrageous things, since it is a good fraction of his total. RIAA pulls the puppet strings, he dances. Conyers gets about $35,000, enough to get him on board too. We have the best politicians money can buy. -- rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
The ideas isn't to throw ALL kaazaa users in jail! What they actually plan to do is to prosecute a FEW sharers and jail them (plus fine them into the poorhouse) as examples for all the rest. This is how the U.S legal system works, when the problem is so massive the system can't deal with it--scare the hell out of all violaters to make most of them stop doing what the system doesn't want them to do. Sucks if you happen to be one of the unlucky ones picked to crucify, but very, very effective. On Friday 18 July 2003 08:57 am, crak600 wrote: On Friday 18 July 2003 11:31 am, Inhabitant of Zion wrote: Hi You guys should really read this its outragious - if its true! http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/31800.html John it'll never happen. the jails would be completely overloaded, as if they aren't already. Mike Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[2]: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
Hello Brooks, Friday, July 18, 2003, 9:17:47 AM, you wrote: BF It likely is true. I'm not in California, so I cannot say BF definitively. However, here is a website that will allow you to BF research Mr. Berman and any other politician you want to know about. BF http://opengov.media.mit.edu/DBD/CACHE//000/400/025/ If you want to know how a politician will act, follow the money. It is an excellent predictor of behavior. For starters, check: http://www.opensecrets.org/ Politicians hate to have this information revealed. It often takes a bit of digging to get the real situation. -- rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 11:07, rikona wrote: Hello Inhabitant, Friday, July 18, 2003, 8:31:09 AM, you wrote: IoZ You guys should really read this its outragious Yes it is. Always follow the money. Berman gets about $100,000 a year from the entertainment industry. For that much money, he'll do outrageous things, since it is a good fraction of his total. RIAA pulls the puppet strings, he dances. Conyers gets about $35,000, enough to get him on board too. We have the best politicians money can buy. You don't have to buy them Senators are available for rent or lease at reasonable rates Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 10:36, Miark wrote: On 18 Jul 2003 19:32:42 +0300, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I'd have a lot more sympathy for the RIAA if one of their major contributers weren't Sony Music. Or if Sony stopped selling CD-R/CD-RW disks recorders and MP3 players. Seems like hypocrisy to me. I think it's consistent. They're trying to stop the sharing of music between people, not the transferring of music between media of any given person. I'm not agreeing with it--just making the point. Miark Possibly or it might be the great disconnect between the left hand and the right hand __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:07:48 -0400 walt [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: big brother is here... and he's got lawyers! even Orwell, as pessimistic as that novel was, never saw that one coming. God help us all. -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 ++ It is only with the heart one can see clearly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. -- The Fox, 'The Little Prince Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
It is not funny, it is scary. It is just another sign that the USA is loosing it. (and I am an American) big brother is here... Walt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Inhabitant of Zion Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users. Hi You guys should really read this its outragious - if its true! http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/31800.html John -- Help Microsoft stamp out piracy - give Linux to a friend today MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 92791912 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[2]: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
Hello aron, Friday, July 18, 2003, 12:12:54 PM, you wrote: We have the best politicians money can buy. as You don't have to buy them Senators are available for rent or lease at as reasonable rates True - I didn't state it right. The $100,000 a year is really the lease fee. :-) Reasonable? Hmmm... For RIAA, I guess so. -- rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[2]: [newbie] [OT] US propose jail for KaZaA users.
Hello JoeHill, Friday, July 18, 2003, 2:19:28 PM, you wrote: J and he's got lawyers! even Orwell, as pessimistic as that novel J was, never saw that one coming. God help us all. Makes sense currently. First, we transfer manufacturing offshore, than we transfer services offshore. What's left? The big money is in suing anybody in sight. Lawyers will prosper. It's no accident we think of them as sharks. Sharks have survived for a long time, while other creatures perished. -- rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
