Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
So run your email through a filter before downloading it? Combine that with serious bitching at your phone company for being overpriced. clipped to reduce $$$ No it is not that simple. I frequently used to work overseas. I collected my e-mail using a laptop/cellphone, often at 2400bps due to poor international connectivity, at International roaming rates ($1.60/minute). At that rate, a 10k (with headers) post would take over 40 seconds to download, costing me personally over a buck. Multiply that up by the number of off-topic posts in this forum recently, and it adds up to a lot of money! Maybe I should start invoicing the posters...
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
*hands you the keys to a nice shiny station wagon* you're right the tanks are hard to use why bother ..enjoy the car. Lonny -- driving away in tank =) Uh...the free tanks are hard to use. dwyatt
[Re: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush ]
Original Message: From: michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush Date: 09/29/00 16:10:55 So run your email through a filter before downloading it? Combine that with serious bitching at your phone company for being overpriced. All this so that people are 'free' to post 200 off-topic messages a day to the list? So the responsibility falls on the recipient to control what he gets in his Inbox. What about the responsibility of posters to stay within the published mandate of the list? I've spent more time deleting than reading over the last few days. Lance
Re: [Re: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush ]
I have no trouble groking my email and I'm sure I probably receive at least as much as you do along with all the work I actually have to do. Besides as I said about 30 messages ago the thread would have died long ago if people stopped telling others to kill it. If nobody responds then the thread dies of disinterest. If enough people are interested in a thread to keep it alive then it is worth having. If it annoys you then simply ignore it. I do pity anyone who has to pay for email though. That is just cruel punishment. I can't imagine being on any mailing lists if I had to pay for the messages. :) *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Fri, 29 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Original Message: From: michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush Date: 09/29/00 16:10:55 So run your email through a filter before downloading it? Combine that with serious bitching at your phone company for being overpriced. All this so that people are 'free' to post 200 off-topic messages a day to the list? So the responsibility falls on the recipient to control what he gets in his Inbox. What about the responsibility of posters to stay within the published mandate of the list? I've spent more time deleting than reading over the last few days. Lance
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
BANG!! It died. On Fri, 29 Sep 2000, Austin L. Denyer wrote: I frequently used to work overseas. I collected my e-mail using a laptop/cellphone, often at 2400bps due to poor international connectivity, at International roaming rates ($1.60/minute). At that rate, a 10k (with headers) post would take over 40 seconds to download, costing me personally over a buck. OK, now under the Rules of the Internet, THIS THREAD MUST DIE! Regards, Ozz.
RE: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush ]
I have to agree with Lance. I was told off by someone the other day because I told them not post crap to the list and like Lance I spend more time deleting junk than reading good informational posts. Please for the love of God, don't post junk here! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 12:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Re: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush ] Original Message: From: michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush Date: 09/29/00 16:10:55 So run your email through a filter before downloading it? Combine that with serious bitching at your phone company for being overpriced. All this so that people are 'free' to post 200 off-topic messages a day to the list? So the responsibility falls on the recipient to control what he gets in his Inbox. What about the responsibility of posters to stay within the published mandate of the list? I've spent more time deleting than reading over the last few days. Lance
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
entertaining, isn't it? -- Mark ** =/\= No Penguins were harmed | ICQ#27816299 ** _||_ in the making of this | ** =\/= message...| Registered Linux user #182496 On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2cents Why must people inform others when they do something like this? *shrug* Even the people who dont want to read the off topic stuff (who ARE apparently reading it) feel the need to throw in their 2 cents /2cents =o) Lonny Just updated my rules to send these messages where they belong - in the trash
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
In a message dated 29-Sep-00 08:31:50 Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No it is not that simple. I frequently used to work overseas. I collected my e-mail using a laptop/cellphone, often at 2400bps due to poor international connectivity, at International roaming rates ($1.60/minute). At that rate, a 10k (with headers) post would take over 40 seconds to download, costing me personally over a buck. hmm i guess i cheat all i recieve is the subject heading and who its from i connect lower then 26kbps and it just takes a split second to delete it, however i do have to pay the millitary phone service to use the phone for a local call at $.56/a day and each call is $.04 the first minute $.01 each aditional minute so to be online every day which i usually do to keep in touch with family and friends, i spend over $200 a month for internet access plus the isp's fees, add in my other bills and i barely get by on what the navy pays me, at the same time i have to worry about supporting my family!
Re: [Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush]
Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BANG!! It died. === Hitler "Many loads of beer were brought. What disorder, whoring, fighting, killing and dreadful idolatry took place there!" Baltasar Rusow, Estonia, 16th century Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Ronald J. Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that this is better left somewhere else...but I can't help it...I'll never vote for a potential president whose agenda includes destroying the 2nd amendment in order to achieve the (dubious) honor of removing firearms from Americans! I say again...never. Amen and pass the ammo. -- #-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-# | Ken Wahl, CCNA [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key ID: 3CF9AB36 | | PGP Public Key: http://www.ipass.net/~kenwahl/pgpkey.txt | #-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- Powered by Linux Mandrake --=-=-=-=-=-=-# Linux up 3 days, 45 min, 1 user, load average: 0.03, 0.04, 0.00 -- I am NRA...hear me ROAR!! Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
True but if the average consumer could pick between a free car that does everything they want and gives them the option between easy or do-it-yourself and any car that cost money I'd figure the majority of people would take the free car. And each person who goes with a free car makes their friends and neighbors more likely to want a free car too. :) *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, Ken Wahl wrote: My simpleton view on the Wintendo vs. Linux thing.. Windows will always have its place because there will always be computer users who DO NOT want to have to learn anything to use a computer. "Just point and click" as the saying goes. If we think about the OS's like cars maybe you'll see what I'm saying. We all know "car people." Maybe you are one yourself. They purchase cars with standard transmissions so they can control the performance of the car at a finer level. They love working on their cars on the weekend, fitting it with afterstock shocks, struts, tires, pistons etc. They experiment with fuel/air mixture settings to squeak out another .25 horsepower. They take their cars to car shows and compare notes with other car people. They are always ahead of their maintenance schedule and do all the maintenance themselves. They do all this because they love it. Then there are people like me. I'm not really interested in how the car works. I just want it to get me from point A to B comfortably. I drive a Ford Taurus with an automatic transmission and A/C. I need the little sticker on the windshield to remind me to get my oil changed. I don't want to "worry" about the car. I just want to get in and go. I get annoyed when I have to replace the wiper blades. Computer users are the same way, at least home users. Not everyone gets a kick out of spending 3 hours to set up their own mailserver. Some people are terrified of a command line. Some people would be annoyed at having to RTFM. Introduce Wintendo. The Ford Taurus of Computing. Linux users hate Wintendo because as an OS it hides the computer from them. Windows users love Wintendo because it hides the computer from them. Their is a big push to make Linux more "user friendly" but at what price? Do we really want an open-source wintendo? I think wintendo will always own the home user market but I think as the home user population becomes more proficient in computer use, their demands will increase and the ones who really get into it will switch to Linux. Wintendo will still reign but nothing like it has the past several years. There are plenty of wintendo users out there with a little penguin happy geek inside them waiting to be awakened. It's just a matter of time before they outgrow their training wheels. As an aside and for some perspective, when I had outgrown my training wheels and was trying to decide whether to go with Linux or FreeBSD I spent some time reading the archives of FreeBSD mailing list like this one. The thread turned to Linux vs. FreeBSD. The comment that sticks out in my mind was "let them cut their teeth on Linux and then they can switch to FreeBSD. That way we won't have to spend so much time teaching them the basics." As you can see I went with Linux. Not because of any technical reason, but because of the supportive atmosphere I saw in the Linux community. That is my (longwinded) $.02 on the subject. Calif residents add sales tax. -- #-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-# | Ken Wahl, CCNA [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key ID: 3CF9AB36 | | PGP Public Key: http://www.ipass.net/~kenwahl/pgpkey.txt | #-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- Powered by Linux Mandrake --=-=-=-=-=-=-# Linux up 2 days, 23:43, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Okay I have been watching this thread and I just can't resist :-) Let's all join forces (and I do believe that there is a sufficient number of us) and everyone vote (write-in ballot) for the Gov of Minnesota -- Jesse "The Body" Ventura giggle Trust me, no one thought he was going to win the governorship 2 years ago but he did just like the masses do not believe that Linux will be a "viable" O/S against Winblows and I guess all I can say is Only Time Will Tell. :-) I seem to recall that, when asked what he would like to be re-incarnated as, he replied "A 44-inch double-D bra!" 'Nuff said... Regards, Ozz. "I ain't got time to bleed..."
RE: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
I totally agree with Ken too, but your free car analogy is a little off. I understand what you mean, but the spin on this is that Linux really isn't "free" - it's free monetarily, but the mental effort and anguish that must be "paid" to have and run your linux system is definitely non-trivial. I don't think the vast majority would have a free car that requires a lot of effort to get the engine started. How long does the average Linux user run with a crippled system (like the sound card not working) until all the subsystems settle into place. I can tell you for a fact that my friends and family think I'm a nut for "spinning my wheels" trying to get all the pieces up and running. They definitely will let Linux cook some more before trying it out... -Original Message- From: Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 2:43 AM To: Ken Wahl Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush True but if the average consumer could pick between a free car that does everything they want and gives them the option between easy or do-it-yourself and any car that cost money I'd figure the majority of people would take the free car. And each person who goes with a free car makes their friends and neighbors more likely to want a free car too. :)
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Ok, I see that every right wing, gun toting, special interest puppet that is on this list is attempting to suck me into a political debate. I refuse to get into such a battle on this list as this forum is not an appropriate area for discussion of such things, however if you feel the need to push your agenda down my throat and explain to me why someone with a history of hard drug abuse who would not be anywhere at all without his rich oil-baron (who nearly bankrupted the country, while himself attaining great wealth) father's political connections, and who could not even manage to run a baseball team, or do anything more in Texas than execute people, and who has openly stated he wants to use federal money to pay parents to send their children to private school, yet maintains that he will not allocate more federal money for schools because "education is the responsibility of the state, it's not a federal problem, so we shouldn't spend federal money there, it's wasteful" would be a good choice for president, please do so. You can flame me at the following e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fritz - Original Message - From: Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 3:02 AM Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Ronald J. Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that this is better left somewhere else...but I can't help it...I'll never vote for a potential president whose agenda includes destroying the 2nd amendment in order to achieve the (dubious) honor of removing firearms from Americans! I say again...never. Amen and pass the ammo. -- #-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-# | Ken Wahl, CCNA [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key ID: 3CF9AB36 | | PGP Public Key: http://www.ipass.net/~kenwahl/pgpkey.txt | #-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- Powered by Linux Mandrake --=-=-=-=-=-=-# Linux up 3 days, 45 min, 1 user, load average: 0.03, 0.04, 0.00 -- I am NRA...hear me ROAR!! Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, you wrote: Ok, I see that every right wing, gun toting, special interest puppet that is on this list is attempting to suck me into a political debate. I refuse to get into such a battle on this list as this forum is not an appropriate area for discussion of such things, however if you feel the need to push your agenda down my throat and explain to me why someone with a history of hard drug abuse who would not be anywhere at all without his rich oil-baron (who nearly bankrupted the country, while himself attaining great wealth) father's political connections, and who could not even manage to run a baseball team, or do anything more in Texas than execute people, and who has openly stated he wants to use federal money to pay parents to send their children to private school, yet maintains that he will not allocate more federal money for schools because "education is the responsibility of the state, it's not a federal problem, so we shouldn't spend federal money there, it's wasteful" would be a good choice for president, please do so. You can flame me at the following e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fritz - Original Message - From: Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 3:02 AM Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Ronald J. Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that this is better left somewhere else...but I can't help it...I'll never vote for a potential president whose agenda includes destroying the 2nd amendment in order to achieve the (dubious) honor of removing firearms from Americans! I say again...never. Amen and pass the ammo. -- #-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-# | Ken Wahl, CCNA [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key ID: 3CF9AB36 | | PGP Public Key: http://www.ipass.net/~kenwahl/pgpkey.txt | #-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- Powered by Linux Mandrake --=-=-=-=-=-=-# Linux up 3 days, 45 min, 1 user, load average: 0.03, 0.04, 0.00 -- I am NRA...hear me ROAR!! Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com -- Main's Law: For every action there is an equal and opposite government program.
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
I must say I have never heard a line of shit like yours! Did you know your hero claims to have been in combat? Did you know he never was? Did you know that gun owners are not all puppets? But sir you sure do sound like one. Typical short term fix. Dont fix the problems you start. No way! Blame the tools. Your right! You sure are. Then tell me one thing, Why do kids kill each other? We had guns thrity years ago, Hell my school had a rifle range 45 of us shot nearly every day. But I know I am just a puppet right? But what is the answer? I know you wont be able to tell me Hell you are just a sock puppet yourself! Now you have a nice day and please write when you chose too. Just remember I dont talk to socks :) PS. Not one death was caused by a single student! On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, you wrote: Ok, I see that every right wing, gun toting, special interest puppet that is on this list is attempting to suck me into a political debate. I refuse to get into such a battle on this list as this forum is not an appropriate area for discussion of such things, however if you feel the need to push your agenda down my throat and explain to me why someone with a history of hard drug abuse who would not be anywhere at all without his rich oil-baron (who nearly bankrupted the country, while himself attaining great wealth) father's political connections, and who could not even manage to run a baseball team, or do anything more in Texas than execute people, and who has openly stated he wants to use federal money to pay parents to send their children to private school, yet maintains that he will not allocate more federal money for schools because "education is the responsibility of the state, it's not a federal problem, so we shouldn't spend federal money there, it's wasteful" would be a good choice for president, please do so. You can flame me at the following e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fritz - Original Message - From: Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 3:02 AM Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Ronald J. Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that this is better left somewhere else...but I can't help it...I'll never vote for a potential president whose agenda includes destroying the 2nd amendment in order to achieve the (dubious) honor of removing firearms from Americans! I say again...never. Amen and pass the ammo. -- #-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-# | Ken Wahl, CCNA [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Key ID: 3CF9AB36 | | PGP Public Key: http://www.ipass.net/~kenwahl/pgpkey.txt | #-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- Powered by Linux Mandrake --=-=-=-=-=-=-# Linux up 3 days, 45 min, 1 user, load average: 0.03, 0.04, 0.00 -- I am NRA...hear me ROAR!! Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com -- Main's Law: For every action there is an equal and opposite government program.
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Sorry if this is a bit much for a single email (this isn't the hole story) but following the *car* analogy of late made me thing of some reading I had done .. if anyone would like the entire article I would be happy to post or send it out ... this is a snip of it Customers come to this crossroads in throngs, day and night. Ninety percent of them go straight to the biggest dealership and buy station wagons or off-road vehicles. They do not even look at the other dealerships. Of the remaining ten percent, most go and buy a sleek Euro-sedan, pausing only to turn up their noses at the philistines going to buy the station wagons and ORVs. If they even notice the people on the opposite side of the road, selling the cheaper, technically superior vehicles, these customers deride them cranks and half-wits. The Batmobile outlet sells a few vehicles to the occasional car nut who wants a second vehicle to go with his station wagon, but seems to accept, at least for now, that it's a fringe player. The group giving away the free tanks only stays alive because it is staffed by volunteers, who are lined up at the edge of the street with bullhorns, trying to draw customers' attention to this incredible situation. A typical conversation goes something like this: Hacker with bullhorn: "Save your money! Accept one of our free tanks! It is invulnerable, and can drive across rocks and swamps at ninety miles an hour while getting a hundred miles to the gallon!" Prospective station wagon buyer: "I know what you say is true...but...er...I don't know how to maintain a tank!" Bullhorn: "You don't know how to maintain a station wagon either!" Buyer: "But this dealership has mechanics on staff. If something goes wrong with my station wagon, I can take a day off work, bring it here, and pay them to work on it while I sit in the waiting room for hours, listening to elevator music." Bullhorn: "But if you accept one of our free tanks we will send volunteers to your house to fix it for free while you sleep!" Buyer: "Stay away from my house, you freak!" Bullhorn: "But..." Buyer: "Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?" Let me know if anyone is interested in the entire article =) Lonny Selinger
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
"F. E. Schaper" wrote: Ok, I see that every right wing, gun toting, special interest puppet that is on this list is attempting to suck me into a political debate. I refuse to get into such a battle on this list as this forum is not an appropriate area for discussion of such things, however if you feel the need to push your agenda down my throat and explain to me why someone with a history of hard drug abuse who would not be anywhere at all without his rich oil-baron (who nearly bankrupted the country, while himself attaining great wealth) father's political connections, and who could not even manage to run a baseball team, or do anything more in Texas than execute people, and who has openly stated he wants to use federal money to pay parents to send their children to private school, yet maintains that he will not allocate more federal money for schools because "education is the responsibility of the state, it's not a federal problem, so we shouldn't spend federal money there, it's wasteful" would be a good choice for president, please do so. I don't even own a gun... But I sincerely believe its everyones right to do so, if they wish... and I'm not a puppet...I think for myself... -- /\ DarkLord \/
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Would it be too much to ask that this discussion be continued privately? It really has nothing at all to do with the content matter of this list and it think it is a little inconsiderate to the many of us out here who are not Americans and futhermore really couldn't give one hoot about U.S. politics and elections. Thank you. "Ronald J. Hall" wrote: "F. E. Schaper" wrote: Ok, I see that every right wing, gun toting, special interest puppet that is on this list is attempting to suck me into a political debate. I refuse to get into such a battle on this list as this forum is not an appropriate area for discussion of such things, however if you feel the need to push your agenda down my throat and explain to me why someone with a history of hard drug abuse who would not be anywhere at all without his rich oil-baron (who nearly bankrupted the country, while himself attaining great wealth) father's political connections, and who could not even manage to run a baseball team, or do anything more in Texas than execute people, and who has openly stated he wants to use federal money to pay parents to send their children to private school, yet maintains that he will not allocate more federal money for schools because "education is the responsibility of the state, it's not a federal problem, so we shouldn't spend federal money there, it's wasteful" would be a good choice for president, please do so. I don't even own a gun... But I sincerely believe its everyones right to do so, if they wish... and I'm not a puppet...I think for myself... -- /\ DarkLord \/
RE: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
effort to get the engine started. How long does the average Linux user run with a crippled system (like the sound card not working) until all the subsystems settle into place. This is probably the best indicator of how "mature" Linux is becoming relative to the average desktop user. I'd suggest that the last year has generated several leaps and bounds in the right direction and has shortened that time considerably. From what I can see, LM7.2 is going to jump another couple leaps forward with better printer, modem, and user setups during installation and operational support for the hardware once in use. Just a few more steps and a standalone Linux system to support 3-4 basic app software uses will be a no-brainer...just as it is in Windows. Cheers --- Larry
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
I must say I have never heard a line of shit like yours! Did you know your hero claims to have been in combat? Did you know he never was? Did you know that gun owners are not all puppets? But sir you sure do sound like one. rm -rf * will fix this problem.
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Hugh, I take pleasure in responding to you publicly, despite the fact that I still don't think this list is the place for this conversation. I have no idea why kids kill each other, and I don't care that your school had a rifle range, your school was most likely segregated as well, that does not mean it was right, that means that is just the way it was. Personally I was shooting a .22 rifle when I was 13 years old at Boy Scout camp, does that mean I am going to go out and attack people with it. No. And I never implied that you would do the same. Things change, ideas change and society changes. You can't solve the problems of the present and future with ideas from the past, they don't work. They are simply outdated. I don't want to get rid of the second amendment at all, because the very thought that I may own a weapon keeps the idiots out of my house. However you should recognize that the amendment that grants the right to bear arms (the 2nd) included the provision only because the United States did not have a well armed militia ready for combat, and ready to defend the citizenry should the need arise to do so, therefore it was a requirement to bear arms in the 18th century. Do I want to take away your guns? No I do not. Do I want to take away guns from children, yes I do, do I think a mandatory 7 day federal waiting period should be required on firearms purchased? Yes I do. Do I think that people who allow access to firearms to minors should be subject to the same criminal punishment as the minor who committed the act? Yes I do. Do I think you need to have an automatic rifle to defend your home, or to hunt a wild animal? No I do not. Do I want to take "gun rights" away from people? No I do not. The bottom line is this, states control gun laws, not the federal government, in the state I live in (FL) it takes less time to buy a car than it does to purchase a weapon, granted both are equally as dangerous when not used with care. However the purpose of a car is simply transportation, that is not the case with a weapon. The federal government needs to handle gun registrations and gun laws, not the states. One of my problems with Bush arises from the fact that he has openly stated "that should be controlled by the states..not the federal government" on several occasions. This leads me to believe that he is going to take this stance on most cases where the states may be involved in a decision of law, and to me that means a weaker federal government. Of course the only ads or things I have heard him say are negative comments towards his opponent, and that also leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The Republican party has spent so much effort and so much time attempting to make the Democratic party look bad (and granted the Democratic party has played right into it with thoughtless acts) that they have weakened themselves by not developing any strong leaders in the party. After this happened they turned to Bush, he has money and he has his fathers credentials (which based on his Presidency, and the state of the economy when he left office) are shaky at best, still, he is their best candidate and rather than have him (or allowing him the freedom to display some leadership initiatives) to discuss issues they have him attack Gore at every turn on a morality bent. Granted Gore has made it easy with his unbelievably inept claims, such as the fact that he "invented the internet". But at least he is sticking with issues (for the most part) as opposed to attacking Bush at every turn with a dirty campaign. How do we fix the problems in this country? I think getting away from the electoral college would be a good start, at least it would be an attempt to get the special interest groups from controlling every election and might make our votes count. I have plenty of other ideas but I think I have rambled long enough, if you would like to share your views, or you would like hear more about what I have to say, please e-mail me privately and I will discuss them with you. Do you still think of me as puppet? Fritz - Original Message - From: hugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 10:20 AM Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush I must say I have never heard a line of like yours! Did you know your hero claims to have been in combat? Did you know he never was? Did you know that gun owners are not all puppets? But sir you sure do sound like one. Typical short term fix. Dont fix the problems you start. No way! Blame the tools. Your right! You sure are. Then tell me one thing, Why do kids kill each other? We had guns thrity years ago, Hell my school had a rifle range 45 of us shot nearly every day. But I know I am just a puppet right? But what is the answer? I know you wont be able to tell me Hell you are just a sock puppet yourself! Now you have a nice day and please write when you chose too. Just remember I dont
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
You don't have to pick a random name, Michael. We do have a viable alternative to throwing our vote away on corporate Republicrat like Bush/Gore! His name's Ralph Nader. And the most important thing if you want him to win as letting him enter the debates. I've been trying to hold myself back from this topic, but it seems to be so related to the open-source/free-software (as in software freedom) movement that I gotta say this. Right now both parties are working together to keep Nader and Buchanan out of the debates. That's primarily because of what happened with Perot when he was in the elections. But also our friend from Minessota, Jesse Ventura, had about the same poll rating as Nader does now (about 8%) before the debates,a nd he won by a landslide afterwards. Right now a lot of people (including a lot of Bush and Gore supporters) are working to get Nader included in the debates because they see it as a basic freedom of speech, freedom to hear another voice issue. Plus, he'll force Bush/Gore to answer some questions they don't want to deal with. Whew. Had to get that out! :) Thanks for lettin' me let loose. If you wanna learn more about it some goods sites are: www.votenader.org and my favorite radio program http://www.democracynow.org/ Sorry for the rant, but it had to be said. Love all'yall. -Paul R Michael wrote: I'd rather pick a random name from the phone book rather than vote for either Bush or Gore. I'll probably end up picking a name from the EFF or something like that. It's better to choose someone I'd really want knowing my canidate has no chance of winning than to throw my vote in behind someone I wouldn't trust to run my Quake server and become just another zombie. Does anyone have any favorites for who we should vote for as the Geek platform? If you wanted to get serious you might pick something like Richard Stallman and Eric Raymond (I probably killed their names but oh well.. I misspell my own name too) but I can't imagine the two of them working together if they could avoid it. So this election day vote for the losser. :) *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Ronald J. Hall wrote: "F. E. Schaper" wrote: I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. I agree that this is better left somewhere else...but I can't help it...I'll never vote for a potential president whose agenda includes destroying the 2nd amendment in order to achieve the (dubious) honor of removing firearms from Americans! I say again...never. -- /\ DarkLord \/ _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me know if anyone is interested in the entire article =) Yes please, Ron the Frog, on the banks of the Paraguay River. -- Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. --- http://personales.conexion.com.py/~rolgiati ---
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
I'm sure missing what this has to do with Mandrake or Linux - please follow your convictions offline, as you did say this list is not the place for this. I've only used filters to take out those annoying "on vacation" messages, but this just made it to the top of the heap. At 11:06 AM 9/28/2000 -0400, you wrote: Hugh, I take pleasure in responding to you publicly, despite the fact that I still don't think this list is the place for this conversation. I have no idea why kids kill each other, and I don't care that your school had a rifle range, your school was most likely segregated as well, that does not mean it was right, that means that is just the way it was. Personally I was shooting a .22 rifle when I was 13 years old at Boy Scout camp, does that mean I am going to go out and attack people with it. No. And I never implied that you would do the same. Things change, ideas change and society changes. You can't solve the problems of the present and future with ideas from the past, they don't work. They are simply outdated. I don't want to get rid of the second amendment at all, because the very thought that I may own a weapon keeps the idiots out of my house. However you should recognize that the amendment that grants the right to bear arms (the 2nd) included the provision only because the United States did not have a well armed militia ready for combat, and ready to defend the citizenry should the need arise to do so, therefore it was a requirement to bear arms in the 18th century. Do I want to take away your guns? No I do not. Do I want to take away guns from children, yes I do, do I think a mandatory 7 day federal waiting period should be required on firearms purchased? Yes I do. Do I think that people who allow access to firearms to minors should be subject to the same criminal punishment as the minor who committed the act? Yes I do. Do I think you need to have an automatic rifle to defend your home, or to hunt a wild animal? No I do not. Do I want to take "gun rights" away from people? No I do not. The bottom line is this, states control gun laws, not the federal government, in the state I live in (FL) it takes less time to buy a car than it does to purchase a weapon, granted both are equally as dangerous when not used with care. However the purpose of a car is simply transportation, that is not the case with a weapon. The federal government needs to handle gun registrations and gun laws, not the states. One of my problems with Bush arises from the fact that he has openly stated "that should be controlled by the states..not the federal government" on several occasions. This leads me to believe that he is going to take this stance on most cases where the states may be involved in a decision of law, and to me that means a weaker federal government. Of course the only ads or things I have heard him say are negative comments towards his opponent, and that also leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The Republican party has spent so much effort and so much time attempting to make the Democratic party look bad (and granted the Democratic party has played right into it with thoughtless acts) that they have weakened themselves by not developing any strong leaders in the party. After this happened they turned to Bush, he has money and he has his fathers credentials (which based on his Presidency, and the state of the economy when he left office) are shaky at best, still, he is their best candidate and rather than have him (or allowing him the freedom to display some leadership initiatives) to discuss issues they have him attack Gore at every turn on a morality bent. Granted Gore has made it easy with his unbelievably inept claims, such as the fact that he "invented the internet". But at least he is sticking with issues (for the most part) as opposed to attacking Bush at every turn with a dirty campaign. How do we fix the problems in this country? I think getting away from the electoral college would be a good start, at least it would be an attempt to get the special interest groups from controlling every election and might make our votes count. I have plenty of other ideas but I think I have rambled long enough, if you would like to share your views, or you would like hear more about what I have to say, please e-mail me privately and I will discuss them with you. Do you still think of me as puppet? Fritz - Original Message - From: hugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 10:20 AM Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush I must say I have never heard a line of like yours! Did you know your hero claims to have been in combat? Did you know he never was? Did you know that gun owners are not all puppets? But sir you sure do sound like one. Typical short term fix. Dont fix the problems you start. No way! Blame the tools. Your right! You sure are. Then tell me one thing, Why do kids kill ea
RE: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Actually, the lockout on debates is why I sent this message to Ralph Nader. snip = I am a registered Republican. I'm also a former business owner and work for a company that Ralph Nader generally targets as being 'anti-consumer' ... With that understanding, I made my decision for election day. It has been a very difficult decision. I've been one of the undecided ones. Come November, Ralph Nader has my vote. The lockout on the debates was the final straw. A very well respected President of the United States said that a two party political system would destroy our Republic and the democracy we hold so dear to our hearts. This lockout crushed open debate, a foundation and cornerstone of our Republic. This action crushed our First Amendment Rights. In fact, our liberties are being stripped - one by one - day by day - decision by decision. It's haunting that our legacy to our children will be our unwillingness to keep the United States free from Government tyranny. A tyranny subject to the whims of money, misguided do-gooders, and control freaks. We don't all have to agree on issues. We don't even have to like each other. The key is to discuss the issues and to make decisions based on the good of our society, our family, our selves, and our country. The "leaders" of the two "major" parties made a strategic error by locking you out of the debates. It would be an interesting poll to see how many of us on the edge of voting one way or another - just got knocked off the fence. Good luck. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paul R Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 8:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush You don't have to pick a random name, Michael. We do have a viable alternative to throwing our vote away on corporate Republicrat like Bush/Gore! His name's Ralph Nader. And the most important thing if you want him to win as letting him enter the debates. I've been trying to hold myself back from this topic, but it seems to be so related to the open-source/free-software (as in software freedom) movement that I gotta say this. Right now both parties are working together to keep Nader and Buchanan out of the debates. That's primarily because of what happened with Perot when he was in the elections. But also our friend from Minessota, Jesse Ventura, had about the same poll rating as Nader does now (about 8%) before the debates,a nd he won by a landslide afterwards. Right now a lot of people (including a lot of Bush and Gore supporters) are working to get Nader included in the debates because they see it as a basic freedom of speech, freedom to hear another voice issue. Plus, he'll force Bush/Gore to answer some questions they don't want to deal with. Whew. Had to get that out! :) Thanks for lettin' me let loose. If you wanna learn more about it some goods sites are: www.votenader.org and my favorite radio program http://www.democracynow.org/ Sorry for the rant, but it had to be said. Love all'yall. -Paul R Michael wrote: I'd rather pick a random name from the phone book rather than vote for either Bush or Gore. I'll probably end up picking a name from the EFF or something like that. It's better to choose someone I'd really want knowing my canidate has no chance of winning than to throw my vote in behind someone I wouldn't trust to run my Quake server and become just another zombie. Does anyone have any favorites for who we should vote for as the Geek platform? If you wanted to get serious you might pick something like Richard Stallman and Eric Raymond (I probably killed their names but oh well.. I misspell my own name too) but I can't imagine the two of them working together if they could avoid it. So this election day vote for the losser. :) *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Ronald J. Hall wrote: "F. E. Schaper" wrote: I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. I agree that this is better left somewhere else...but I can't help it...I'll never vote for a potential president whose agenda includes destroying the 2nd amendment in order to achieve the (dubious) honor of removing firearms from Americans! I say again...never. -- /\ DarkLord \/ _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Please. Stop this thread. Or go to egroups and start a mailing list for this. I just pulled mail and deleted over 25 messages about this haggle over politics. I don't care about it. Would you like to have 25 messages per day about the traffic problems in our country? Paul, from the Netherlands. -- I will not be filed, stamped, briefed, debriefed or numbered... My life is my own. http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 - Registered Linux User 174403 -=PINE 4.21 on Linux Mandrake 7.1=-
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
This is the entire article in its entirety =) enjoy!! (I appologize for the formatting) comments? MGBs, TANKS, AND BATMOBILES Around the time that Jobs, Wozniak, Gates, and Allen were dreaming up these unlikely schemes, I was a teenager living in Ames, Iowa. One of my friends' dads had an old MGB sports car rusting away in his garage. Sometimes he would actually manage to get it running and then he would take us for a spin around the block, with a memorable look of wild youthful exhilaration on his face; to his worried passengers, he was a madman, stalling and backfiring around Ames, Iowa and eating the dust of rusty Gremlins and Pintos, but in his own mind he was Dustin Hoffman tooling across the Bay Bridge with the wind in his hair. In retrospect, this was telling me two things about people's relationship to technology. One was that romance and image go a long way towards shaping their opinions. If you doubt it (and if you have a lot of spare time on your hands) just ask anyone who owns a Macintosh and who, on those grounds, imagines him- or herself to be a member of an oppressed minority group. The other, somewhat subtler point, was that interface is very important. Sure, the MGB was a lousy car in almost every way that counted: balky, unreliable, and underpowered. But it was fun to drive. It was responsive. Every pebble on the road was felt in the bones, every nuance in the pavement transmitted instantly to the driver's hands. He could listen to the engine and tell what was wrong with it. The steering responded immediately to commands from his hands. To us passengers it was a pointless exercise in going nowhere--about as interesting as peering over someone's shoulder while he punches numbers into a spreadsheet. But to the driver it was an experience. For a short time he was extending his body and his senses into a larger realm, and doing things that he couldn't do unassisted. The analogy between cars and operating systems is not half bad, and so let me run with it for a moment, as a way of giving an executive summary of our situation today. Imagine a crossroads where four competing auto dealerships are situated. One of them (Microsoft) is much, much bigger than the others. It started out years ago selling three-speed bicycles (MS-DOS); these were not perfect, but they worked, and when they broke you could easily fix them. There was a competing bicycle dealership next door (Apple) that one day began selling motorized vehicles--expensive but attractively styled cars with their innards hermetically sealed, so that how they worked was something of a mystery. The big dealership responded by rushing a moped upgrade kit (the original Windows) onto the market. This was a Rube Goldberg contraption that, when bolted onto a three-speed bicycle, enabled it to keep up, just barely, with Apple-cars. The users had to wear goggles and were always picking bugs out of their teeth while Apple owners sped along in hermetically sealed comfort, sneering out the windows. But the Micro-mopeds were cheap, and easy to fix compared with the Apple-cars, and their market share waxed. Eventually the big dealership came out with a full-fledged car: a colossal station wagon (Windows 95). It had all the aesthetic appeal of a Soviet worker housing block, it leaked oil and blew gaskets, and it was an enormous success. A little later, they also came out with a hulking off-road vehicle intended for industrial users (Windows NT) which was no more beautiful than the station wagon, and only a little more reliable. Since then there has been a lot of noise and shouting, but little has changed. The smaller dealership continues to sell sleek Euro-styled sedans and to spend a lot of money on advertising campaigns. They have had GOING OUT OF BUSINESS! signs taped up in their windows for so long that they have gotten all yellow and curly. The big one keeps making bigger and bigger station wagons and ORVs. On the other side of the road are two competitors that have come along more recently. One of them (Be, Inc.) is selling fully operational Batmobiles (the BeOS). They are more beautiful and stylish even than the Euro-sedans, better designed, more technologically advanced, and at least as reliable as anything else on the market--and yet cheaper than the others. With one exception, that is: Linux, which is right next door, and which is not a business at all. It's a bunch of RVs, yurts, tepees, and geodesic domes set up in a field and organized by consensus. The people who live there are making tanks. These are not old-fashioned, cast-iron Soviet tanks; these are more like the M1 tanks of the U.S. Army, made of space-age materials and jammed with sophisticated technology from one end to the other. But they are better than Army tanks. They've been modified in such a way that they never, ever break down, are light and maneuverable enough to use on ordinary streets, and use no more fuel than a subcompact car.
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
incidentally ... the entire essay can be found here: http://www.spack.org/essays/commandline.html Lonny Selinger
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
What do I care? If I was bored of OT messages I'd simply sort all OT messages into the trash or maybe even sort them out before downloading them if I was on a slow connection. I get over 1000 messages a day, what do I care about 25. ; *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, Paul wrote: Please. Stop this thread. Or go to egroups and start a mailing list for this. I just pulled mail and deleted over 25 messages about this haggle over politics. I don't care about it. Would you like to have 25 messages per day about the traffic problems in our country? Paul, from the Netherlands. -- I will not be filed, stamped, briefed, debriefed or numbered... My life is my own. http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 - Registered Linux User 174403 -=PINE 4.21 on Linux Mandrake 7.1=-
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Yes, but what happens as more people notice the free tanks? Slowly their numbers gather and they become easier and easier to notice. Not seeing them would be like being next door to Woodstock and not noticing anything out of the ordinary. As each person comes to get their free tank they tell their friends and their friends are interested and want to try a free tank too. The numbers grow exponetially. Eventually only a few crackpots are still going to the station wagon and sedan dealers. A few may look at the batmobiles but then someone decides to make their tank look like a batmobile and suddenly everyone who wants a batmobile just takes their free tank and presses a newly installed shiny little button and their tank turns into a batmobile. Woo. *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the entire article in its entirety =) enjoy!! (I appologize for the formatting) comments? MGBs, TANKS, AND BATMOBILES Around the time that Jobs, Wozniak, Gates, and Allen were dreaming up these unlikely schemes, I was a teenager living in Ames, Iowa. One of my friends' dads had an old MGB sports car rusting away in his garage. Sometimes he would actually manage to get it running and then he would take us for a spin around the block, with a memorable look of wild youthful exhilaration on his face; to his worried passengers, he was a madman, stalling and backfiring around Ames, Iowa and eating the dust of rusty Gremlins and Pintos, but in his own mind he was Dustin Hoffman tooling across the Bay Bridge with the wind in his hair. In retrospect, this was telling me two things about people's relationship to technology. One was that romance and image go a long way towards shaping their opinions. If you doubt it (and if you have a lot of spare time on your hands) just ask anyone who owns a Macintosh and who, on those grounds, imagines him- or herself to be a member of an oppressed minority group. The other, somewhat subtler point, was that interface is very important. Sure, the MGB was a lousy car in almost every way that counted: balky, unreliable, and underpowered. But it was fun to drive. It was responsive. Every pebble on the road was felt in the bones, every nuance in the pavement transmitted instantly to the driver's hands. He could listen to the engine and tell what was wrong with it. The steering responded immediately to commands from his hands. To us passengers it was a pointless exercise in going nowhere--about as interesting as peering over someone's shoulder while he punches numbers into a spreadsheet. But to the driver it was an experience. For a short time he was extending his body and his senses into a larger realm, and doing things that he couldn't do unassisted. The analogy between cars and operating systems is not half bad, and so let me run with it for a moment, as a way of giving an executive summary of our situation today. Imagine a crossroads where four competing auto dealerships are situated. One of them (Microsoft) is much, much bigger than the others. It started out years ago selling three-speed bicycles (MS-DOS); these were not perfect, but they worked, and when they broke you could easily fix them. There was a competing bicycle dealership next door (Apple) that one day began selling motorized vehicles--expensive but attractively styled cars with their innards hermetically sealed, so that how they worked was something of a mystery. The big dealership responded by rushing a moped upgrade kit (the original Windows) onto the market. This was a Rube Goldberg contraption that, when bolted onto a three-speed bicycle, enabled it to keep up, just barely, with Apple-cars. The users had to wear goggles and were always picking bugs out of their teeth while Apple owners sped along in hermetically sealed comfort, sneering out the windows. But the Micro-mopeds were cheap, and easy to fix compared with the Apple-cars, and their market share waxed. Eventually the big dealership came out with a full-fledged car: a colossal station wagon (Windows 95). It had all the aesthetic appeal of a Soviet worker housing block, it leaked oil and blew gaskets, and it was an enormous success. A little later, they also came out with a hulking off-road vehicle intended for industrial users (Windows NT) which was no more beautiful than the station wagon, and only a little more reliable. Since then there has been a lot of noise and shouting, but little has changed. The smaller dealership continues to sell sleek Euro-styled sedans and to spend a lot of money on advertising campaigns. They have had GOING OUT OF BUSINESS! signs taped up in their windows for so long that they have gotten all yellow and curly. The big one keeps making
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
I don't care about it. Would you like to have 25 messages per day about the traffic problems in our country? It would be far more interesting than the drivel that had dumped into this conference in the past few days :-) Are they using hoping to use Linux to control traffic in your part of the world? Cheers --- Larry
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
snip a whole load of sh!t about politics with zero relevance to the list You guys are fixing to become the latest additions to my draconian kill file. CUT IT OUT ALREADY!! Regards, Ozz.
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Please. Stop this thread. Or go to egroups and start a mailing list for this. I just pulled mail and deleted over 25 messages about this haggle over politics. I don't care about it. Would you like to have 25 messages per day about the traffic problems in our country? Paul, from the Netherlands. Well said, Sir! Regards, Ozz.
RE: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Enough. I can stand it. STOP THE MADNESS. -Original Message- From: Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 1:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush Yes, but what happens as more people notice the free tanks? Slowly their numbers gather and they become easier and easier to notice. Not seeing them would be like being next door to Woodstock and not noticing anything out of the ordinary. As each person comes to get their free tank they tell their friends and their friends are interested and want to try a free tank too. The numbers grow exponetially. Eventually only a few crackpots are still going to the station wagon and sedan dealers. A few may look at the batmobiles but then someone decides to make their tank look like a batmobile and suddenly everyone who wants a batmobile just takes their free tank and presses a newly installed shiny little button and their tank turns into a batmobile. Woo. *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the entire article in its entirety =) enjoy!! (I appologize for the formatting) comments? MGBs, TANKS, AND BATMOBILES Around the time that Jobs, Wozniak, Gates, and Allen were dreaming up these unlikely schemes, I was a teenager living in Ames, Iowa. One of my friends' dads had an old MGB sports car rusting away in his garage. Sometimes he would actually manage to get it running and then he would take us for a spin around the block, with a memorable look of wild youthful exhilaration on his face; to his worried passengers, he was a madman, stalling and backfiring around Ames, Iowa and eating the dust of rusty Gremlins and Pintos, but in his own mind he was Dustin Hoffman tooling across the Bay Bridge with the wind in his hair. In retrospect, this was telling me two things about people's relationship to technology. One was that romance and image go a long way towards shaping their opinions. If you doubt it (and if you have a lot of spare time on your hands) just ask anyone who owns a Macintosh and who, on those grounds, imagines him- or herself to be a member of an oppressed minority group. The other, somewhat subtler point, was that interface is very important. Sure, the MGB was a lousy car in almost every way that counted: balky, unreliable, and underpowered. But it was fun to drive. It was responsive. Every pebble on the road was felt in the bones, every nuance in the pavement transmitted instantly to the driver's hands. He could listen to the engine and tell what was wrong with it. The steering responded immediately to commands from his hands. To us passengers it was a pointless exercise in going nowhere--about as interesting as peering over someone's shoulder while he punches numbers into a spreadsheet. But to the driver it was an experience. For a short time he was extending his body and his senses into a larger realm, and doing things that he couldn't do unassisted. The analogy between cars and operating systems is not half bad, and so let me run with it for a moment, as a way of giving an executive summary of our situation today. Imagine a crossroads where four competing auto dealerships are situated. One of them (Microsoft) is much, much bigger than the others. It started out years ago selling three-speed bicycles (MS-DOS); these were not perfect, but they worked, and when they broke you could easily fix them. There was a competing bicycle dealership next door (Apple) that one day began selling motorized vehicles--expensive but attractively styled cars with their innards hermetically sealed, so that how they worked was something of a mystery. The big dealership responded by rushing a moped upgrade kit (the original Windows) onto the market. This was a Rube Goldberg contraption that, when bolted onto a three-speed bicycle, enabled it to keep up, just barely, with Apple-cars. The users had to wear goggles and were always picking bugs out of their teeth while Apple owners sped along in hermetically sealed comfort, sneering out the windows. But the Micro-mopeds were cheap, and easy to fix compared with the Apple-cars, and their market share waxed. Eventually the big dealership came out with a full-fledged car: a colossal station wagon (Windows 95). It had all the aesthetic appeal of a Soviet worker housing block, it leaked oil and blew gaskets, and it was an enormous success. A little later, they also came out with a hulking off-road vehicle intended for industrial users (Windows NT) which was no more beautiful than the station wagon, and only a little more reliable. Since then there has been a lot of noise and shouting, but little has changed
RE: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Is someone smoking something for lunch today .. or are their meds out of adjustment ? -Original Message- From: Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 1:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush Yes, but what happens as more people notice the free tanks? Slowly their numbers gather and they become easier and easier to notice. Not seeing them would be like being next door to Woodstock and not noticing anything out of the ordinary. As each person comes to get their free tank they tell their friends and their friends are interested and want to try a free tank too. The numbers grow exponetially. Eventually only a few crackpots are still going to the station wagon and sedan dealers. A few may look at the batmobiles but then someone decides to make their tank look like a batmobile and suddenly everyone who wants a batmobile just takes their free tank and presses a newly installed shiny little button and their tank turns into a batmobile. Woo. *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the entire article in its entirety =) enjoy!! (I appologize for the formatting) comments? MGBs, TANKS, AND BATMOBILES Around the time that Jobs, Wozniak, Gates, and Allen were dreaming up these unlikely schemes, I was a teenager living in Ames, Iowa. One of my friends' dads had an old MGB sports car rusting away in his garage. Sometimes he would actually manage to get it running and then he would take us for a spin around the block, with a memorable look of wild youthful exhilaration on his face; to his worried passengers, he was a madman, stalling and backfiring around Ames, Iowa and eating the dust of rusty Gremlins and Pintos, but in his own mind he was Dustin Hoffman tooling across the Bay Bridge with the wind in his hair. In retrospect, this was telling me two things about people's relationship to technology. One was that romance and image go a long way towards shaping their opinions. If you doubt it (and if you have a lot of spare time on your hands) just ask anyone who owns a Macintosh and who, on those grounds, imagines him- or herself to be a member of an oppressed minority group. The other, somewhat subtler point, was that interface is very important. Sure, the MGB was a lousy car in almost every way that counted: balky, unreliable, and underpowered. But it was fun to drive. It was responsive. Every pebble on the road was felt in the bones, every nuance in the pavement transmitted instantly to the driver's hands. He could listen to the engine and tell what was wrong with it. The steering responded immediately to commands from his hands. To us passengers it was a pointless exercise in going nowhere--about as interesting as peering over someone's shoulder while he punches numbers into a spreadsheet. But to the driver it was an experience. For a short time he was extending his body and his senses into a larger realm, and doing things that he couldn't do unassisted. The analogy between cars and operating systems is not half bad, and so let me run with it for a moment, as a way of giving an executive summary of our situation today. Imagine a crossroads where four competing auto dealerships are situated. One of them (Microsoft) is much, much bigger than the others. It started out years ago selling three-speed bicycles (MS-DOS); these were not perfect, but they worked, and when they broke you could easily fix them. There was a competing bicycle dealership next door (Apple) that one day began selling motorized vehicles--expensive but attractively styled cars with their innards hermetically sealed, so that how they worked was something of a mystery. The big dealership responded by rushing a moped upgrade kit (the original Windows) onto the market. This was a Rube Goldberg contraption that, when bolted onto a three-speed bicycle, enabled it to keep up, just barely, with Apple-cars. The users had to wear goggles and were always picking bugs out of their teeth while Apple owners sped along in hermetically sealed comfort, sneering out the windows. But the Micro-mopeds were cheap, and easy to fix compared with the Apple-cars, and their market share waxed. Eventually the big dealership came out with a full-fledged car: a colossal station wagon (Windows 95). It had all the aesthetic appeal of a Soviet worker housing block, it leaked oil and blew gaskets, and it was an enormous success. A little later, they also came out with a hulking off-road vehicle intended for industrial users (Windows NT) which was no more beautiful than the station wagon, and only a little more reliable. Since then there has been a lot of noise
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Yes, but what happens as more people notice the free tanks? Slowly their numbers gather and they become easier and easier to notice. Not seeing them would be like being next door to Woodstock and not noticing anything Maybe more important would be a changing environment that made owning a tank more useful than in the past. This is what's happening in the world me thinks. Not only are the advantages of multiuser/multitasking OSs emphasized by the Internet age, the people who are buying computers/software are coming from a generation that have been pounding on keyboards since they were 5. The fact that the station wagons flip upside down on a daily basis with the attempt to make them tank-like by their manufacturer (let's face it, before Bill tried to make DOS multi-tasking it was pretty solid) doesn't hurt the trend :-) Cheers --- Larry
RE: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
how about DIE thread D-I-E -- Mark ** =/\= No Penguins were harmed | ICQ#27816299 ** _||_ in the making of this | ** =\/= message...| Registered Linux user #182496 On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Mike Tracy Holt wrote: "F. E. Schaper" wrote: I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. I agree that this is better left somewhere else...but I can't help it...I'll never vote for a potential president whose agenda includes destroying the 2nd amendment in order to achieve the (dubious) honor of removing firearms from Americans! I say again...never. -- /\ DarkLord How about a potential president who claims to have invented the internet??? An 'A' for originality? Mike
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Sounds like a REAL good idea. Just send this crap to the bit bucket never to be seen or heard from again. -- Mark ** =/\= No Penguins were harmed | ICQ#27816299 ** _||_ in the making of this | ** =\/= message...| Registered Linux user #182496 On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just updated my rules to send these messages where they belong - in the trash
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Uh...the free tanks are hard to use. dwyatt - Original Message - From: "Michael" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush Yes, but what happens as more people notice the free tanks? Slowly their numbers gather and they become easier and easier to notice. Not seeing them would be like being next door to Woodstock and not noticing anything out of the ordinary. As each person comes to get their free tank they tell their friends and their friends are interested and want to try a free tank too. The numbers grow exponetially. Eventually only a few crackpots are still going to the station wagon and sedan dealers. A few may look at the batmobiles but then someone decides to make their tank look like a batmobile and suddenly everyone who wants a batmobile just takes their free tank and presses a newly installed shiny little button and their tank turns into a batmobile. Woo. *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the entire article in its entirety =) enjoy!! (I appologize for the formatting) comments? MGBs, TANKS, AND BATMOBILES Around the time that Jobs, Wozniak, Gates, and Allen were dreaming up these unlikely schemes, I was a teenager living in Ames, Iowa. One of my friends' dads had an old MGB sports car rusting away in his garage. Sometimes he would actually manage to get it running and then he would take us for a spin around the block, with a memorable look of wild youthful exhilaration on his face; to his worried passengers, he was a madman, stalling and backfiring around Ames, Iowa and eating the dust of rusty Gremlins and Pintos, but in his own mind he was Dustin Hoffman tooling across the Bay Bridge with the wind in his hair. In retrospect, this was telling me two things about people's relationship to technology. One was that romance and image go a long way towards shaping their opinions. If you doubt it (and if you have a lot of spare time on your hands) just ask anyone who owns a Macintosh and who, on those grounds, imagines him- or herself to be a member of an oppressed minority group. The other, somewhat subtler point, was that interface is very important. Sure, the MGB was a lousy car in almost every way that counted: balky, unreliable, and underpowered. But it was fun to drive. It was responsive. Every pebble on the road was felt in the bones, every nuance in the pavement transmitted instantly to the driver's hands. He could listen to the engine and tell what was wrong with it. The steering responded immediately to commands from his hands. To us passengers it was a pointless exercise in going nowhere--about as interesting as peering over someone's shoulder while he punches numbers into a spreadsheet. But to the driver it was an experience. For a short time he was extending his body and his senses into a larger realm, and doing things that he couldn't do unassisted. The analogy between cars and operating systems is not half bad, and so let me run with it for a moment, as a way of giving an executive summary of our situation today. Imagine a crossroads where four competing auto dealerships are situated. One of them (Microsoft) is much, much bigger than the others. It started out years ago selling three-speed bicycles (MS-DOS); these were not perfect, but they worked, and when they broke you could easily fix them. There was a competing bicycle dealership next door (Apple) that one day began selling motorized vehicles--expensive but attractively styled cars with their innards hermetically sealed, so that how they worked was something of a mystery. The big dealership responded by rushing a moped upgrade kit (the original Windows) onto the market. This was a Rube Goldberg contraption that, when bolted onto a three-speed bicycle, enabled it to keep up, just barely, with Apple-cars. The users had to wear goggles and were always picking bugs out of their teeth while Apple owners sped along in hermetically sealed comfort, sneering out the windows. But the Micro-mopeds were cheap, and easy to fix compared with the Apple-cars, and their market share waxed. Eventually the big dealership came out with a full-fledged car: a colossal station wagon (Windows 95). It had all the aesthetic appeal of a Soviet worker housing block, it leaked oil and blew gaskets, and it was an enormous success. A little later, they also came out with a hulking off-road vehicle intended for industrial users (Windows NT) which was no more beautiful than the station wagon, and only a little more reliabl
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
I, for one, enjoy reading the political banter. If you don't like it, you can use the delete button when you see the heading you want to avoid. This is a No, Jay...the reason there are many conferences is that each is subject specific. Neither you or anyone else has the right to carry on extended discussions that have nothing to do with the stated topic. Tolerance is one thing; freedom of speech is great. But chaotic babbling is simply not productive and if you want to see a conference where you can't get any help, all we've got to do is allow all this non-Linux babbling to continue. Cheers --- Larry
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
2cents Why must people inform others when they do something like this? *shrug* Even the people who dont want to read the off topic stuff (who ARE apparently reading it) feel the need to throw in their 2 cents /2cents =o) Lonny Just updated my rules to send these messages where they belong - in the trash
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Funny I turn lose complete novices on my Linux systems and they adapt quickly. Some of them figured it out and can't even figure out how to turn the computer on (yes that scares me too). *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, dwyatt wrote: Uh...the free tanks are hard to use. dwyatt - Original Message - From: "Michael" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush Yes, but what happens as more people notice the free tanks? Slowly their numbers gather and they become easier and easier to notice. Not seeing them would be like being next door to Woodstock and not noticing anything out of the ordinary. As each person comes to get their free tank they tell their friends and their friends are interested and want to try a free tank too. The numbers grow exponetially. Eventually only a few crackpots are still going to the station wagon and sedan dealers. A few may look at the batmobiles but then someone decides to make their tank look like a batmobile and suddenly everyone who wants a batmobile just takes their free tank and presses a newly installed shiny little button and their tank turns into a batmobile. Woo. *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the entire article in its entirety =) enjoy!! (I appologize for the formatting) comments? MGBs, TANKS, AND BATMOBILES Around the time that Jobs, Wozniak, Gates, and Allen were dreaming up these unlikely schemes, I was a teenager living in Ames, Iowa. One of my friends' dads had an old MGB sports car rusting away in his garage. Sometimes he would actually manage to get it running and then he would take us for a spin around the block, with a memorable look of wild youthful exhilaration on his face; to his worried passengers, he was a madman, stalling and backfiring around Ames, Iowa and eating the dust of rusty Gremlins and Pintos, but in his own mind he was Dustin Hoffman tooling across the Bay Bridge with the wind in his hair. In retrospect, this was telling me two things about people's relationship to technology. One was that romance and image go a long way towards shaping their opinions. If you doubt it (and if you have a lot of spare time on your hands) just ask anyone who owns a Macintosh and who, on those grounds, imagines him- or herself to be a member of an oppressed minority group. The other, somewhat subtler point, was that interface is very important. Sure, the MGB was a lousy car in almost every way that counted: balky, unreliable, and underpowered. But it was fun to drive. It was responsive. Every pebble on the road was felt in the bones, every nuance in the pavement transmitted instantly to the driver's hands. He could listen to the engine and tell what was wrong with it. The steering responded immediately to commands from his hands. To us passengers it was a pointless exercise in going nowhere--about as interesting as peering over someone's shoulder while he punches numbers into a spreadsheet. But to the driver it was an experience. For a short time he was extending his body and his senses into a larger realm, and doing things that he couldn't do unassisted. The analogy between cars and operating systems is not half bad, and so let me run with it for a moment, as a way of giving an executive summary of our situation today. Imagine a crossroads where four competing auto dealerships are situated. One of them (Microsoft) is much, much bigger than the others. It started out years ago selling three-speed bicycles (MS-DOS); these were not perfect, but they worked, and when they broke you could easily fix them. There was a competing bicycle dealership next door (Apple) that one day began selling motorized vehicles--expensive but attractively styled cars with their innards hermetically sealed, so that how they worked was something of a mystery. The big dealership responded by rushing a moped upgrade kit (the original Windows) onto the market. This was a Rube Goldberg contraption that, when bolted onto a three-speed bicycle, enabled it to keep up, just barely, with Apple-cars. The users had to wear goggles and were always picking bugs out of their teeth while Apple owners sped along in hermetically sealed comfort, sneering out the windows. But the Micro-mopeds were cheap, and easy to fi
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
if you dont like it delete it before you read it. ITS THAT SIMPLE!!!
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Funny I turn lose complete novices on my Linux systems and they adapt quickly. Some of them figured it out and can't even figure out how to turn the computer on (yes that scares me too). My guess is that it's easier for "complete novices" to deal with Linux than it is for people who are used to Windows. Typically, people with experience in only one operating system have the hardest time adapting to a new one. Sometimes ignorance IS bliss :-) Cheers --- Larry
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
On 28 Sep 2000, at 13:40, Austin L. Denyer wrote: I don't care about it. Would you like to have 25 messages per day about the traffic problems in our country? I'll trade your politics AND your traffic for my Ex-wife. -- R. Edward McCain [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://taozen.hypermart.net ICQ: 599146
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
On 28 Sep 2000, at 11:06, F. E. Schaper wrote: Do I think you need to have an automatic rifle to defend your home, or to hunt a wild animal? No I do not. 1700's "What do you need that musket fer, Jeb?" "A man's gotta eat and defend hisself, John" "Defend yerself? Wut fer? King George has militia here. They'll protect yer family!" 2000's "What do you need that pistol for, Mike?" "The gangs are getting bad in the area and I need some protection, Paul" "Protection? What are you talking about, Mike? The President launched a WAR against drugs and violence a decade ago! You don't need a gun! If billions of dollars spent on law enforcement and education cannot stop drugs and violence, how in the world is a gun control law, ink on paper, going to stop it? EOT. -- R. Edward McCain [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://taozen.hypermart.net ICQ: 599146
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
In a message dated 26-Sep-00 21:27:25 Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So I buy a Ford. oh buy an engine that is impossible to work on and dies all the time sounds like WINDOWS!!! ford = windows of the automobile industry
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, you wrote: Has any one heard? The Microsoft Antitrust Case is going to a lower court. And if George W. Bush has his way. Mr. Bill will be able add - force people to accept what comes with Windows? It's a sad day. Just my $0.02 Roman -- Pardon my French, but who gives a s**t. Let Microcrap do what they want. Let's face it, they have had ZERO innovation since the release of Windoze 95. Each "upgrade" is basically cosmetic with a few OEM packages thrown in for added "benefits". Windoze ME is worthless and not necessary. Let them act how they want, they will get theirs in the end. Once other OS's (Linux, the new OS X) start to take off in the desktop market, they will be forced to reactbut remember, everything Microsoft has they bought or stole from somebody...let's see 'em try to buy Linux. I think Gates might have to look up Open-source in a dictionary. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Isnt OSX a MAC versions of Operating System. I thought it's not related to Linux. Of course there are some Linux distributions for the Mac. But what I've heard Apple is producing the next generation of O/S entitled OSX. Rob On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, you wrote: Has any one heard? The Microsoft Antitrust Case is going to a lower court. And if George W. Bush has his way. Mr. Bill will be able add - force people to accept what comes with Windows? It's a sad day. Just my $0.02 Roman -- Pardon my French, but who gives a s**t. Let Microcrap do what they want. Let's face it, they have had ZERO innovation since the release of Windoze 95. Each "upgrade" is basically cosmetic with a few OEM packages thrown in for added "benefits". Windoze ME is worthless and not necessary. Let them act how they want, they will get theirs in the end. Once other OS's (Linux, the new OS X) start to take off in the desktop market, they will be forced to reactbut rremember, everything Microsoft has they bought or stole from somebody...let's see 'em try to buy Linux. I think Gates might have to look up Open-source in a dictionary. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Isnt OSX a MAC versions of Operating System. I thought it's not related to Linux. Of course there are some Linux distributions for the Mac. But what I've heard Apple is producing the next generation of O/S entitled OSX. -- It is Mac. But OS X is based on Unix. The buzz is that it is very stable and easy to use. If Mac makes the OS X Intel compatible, watch out! So, although it is not Linux, OS X is a perceived threat to Windoze. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
No kidding thats why Billyboy hates linux, he can't touch it haha! On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Mark Weaver wrote: Not really...He can't do a thing to the beautiful OS I'm running on my box that will likely still be running WITHOUT being rebooted once till they finally get done doodling around in court! I don't look for that to happen for another 5-10 years at least. -- Mark ** =/\= No Penguins were harmed | ICQ#27816299 ** _||_ in the making of this | ** =\/= message... | Registered Linux user #182496 On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Romanator wrote: Has any one heard? The Microsoft Antitrust Case is going to a lower court. And if George W. Bush has his way. Mr. Bill will be able add - force people to accept what comes with Windows? It's a sad day. Just my $0.02 Roman
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Robin Regennitter wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Isnt OSX a MAC versions of Operating System. I thought it's not related to Linux. Of course there are some Linux distributions for the Mac. But what I've heard Apple is producing the next generation of O/S entitled OSX. Rob AFAIK, Mac OS-X (and thats "ten", BTW), is the classic, slick Mac GUI sitting on top of a version of BSD Unix. My little brother just paid $30 for a beta version that he is going to install on his iBook. (go figure-paying that for a beta! smile) I watched a quicktime movie of this new OS in action, and it *looks* good, but really, what can you tell from watching a demo? Give me hands on, everytime. ;) -- /\ DarkLord \/
RE: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Pardon my heresy, but I don't think Linux will make it as a viable alternative desktop for the masses (no offense intended) for the following reasons: 1) the Linux community is too decentralized. 2) there are no such things as standards, even defacto standards - Cut Paste is an example - there is not even any social pressure for developers to adhere to a standard. 3) window managers make things too different - a nightmare for the corporate world, even though you're running Mandrake (or Debian, or whatever) your window manager makes the environment foreign to anyone that doesn't run that window manager. 4) Linux developers work for free and are not subject to the same QA that Apple is subject to. 5) Linux developers work for free; consequently their incentives to create and contribute are different 6) Linux users in general would probably balk if they had to actually pay for software 7) the average computer user is *required* to make *a lot* of effort understanding how to "operate" the machine. The complexity is not sufficiently hidden from them when needed 8) there is a certain amount of elitism within the Linux community in general which distains the stereotypical "aol/microsoft" user (no offense, just an observation) 9) Linux is inherently a programmers/developers environment and *specifically* geared to those kinds of folks 10) talk like what I'm doing here is not well received by the Linux community in general Again, don't get me wrong I really, really like Linux ( window managers) and I would really like to see it be a viable alternative desktop. But from my personal observations (painful) personal experience and knowing the expectations abilities of my friends family, it's not there yet. I don't expect it to be there in the next 5 to 10 years (even considering internet time). I think there will need to be a broad change in perception among the Linux folks about the "computing world for average folks" before that will happen. Unfortunately, I think Linux will have to be backwardly compatible with MAC and Windows - whatever that means. ps: I've just installed HelixGnome (www.helixgnome.com) and it looks really good though I haven't had a chance to use it yet! -Original Message- From: Jay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 2:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, you wrote: -- Pardon my French, but who gives a s**t. Let Microcrap do what they want. Let's face it, they have had ZERO innovation since the release of Windoze 95. Each "upgrade" is basically cosmetic with a few OEM packages thrown in for added "benefits". Windoze ME is worthless and not necessary. Let them act how they want, they will get theirs in the end. Once other OS's (Linux, the new OS X) start to take off in the desktop market, they will be forced to reactbut remember, everything Microsoft has they bought or stole from somebody...let's see 'em try to buy Linux. I think Gates might have to look up Open-source in a dictionary. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Hey Y'all, Before I got into using Linux I used various versions of the MAC O/S and I always found it to be somewhat unstable, the one thing I did like about it was the fact that it was not nearly as dumbed down as Windows, it is easy to use, but you still need to have some kind of understanding as to what the machine is doing. Hopefully when OS/X gets all the way (it is available in server packages) out they will somehow port it to run on Intel based processor machines, and hopefully the stability problems will be corrected, without having to compromise the ease of use. If these things happen, and the work on developing a more consumer friendly Linux product continues, Microsoft could be in for quite a shock. Of course bad news for Bill is good news for the rest of us. I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. Fritz - Original Message - From: Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 4:56 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Isnt OSX a MAC versions of Operating System. I thought it's not related to Linux. Of course there are some Linux distributions for the Mac. But what I've heard Apple is producing the next generation of O/S entitled OSX. -- It is Mac. But OS X is based on Unix. The buzz is that it is very stable and easy to use. If Mac makes the OS X Intel compatible, watch out! So, although it is not Linux, OS X is a perceived threat to Windoze. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
An intel port of OS-X is never going to happen. The whole Apple vision depends on a consistent box to go with the OS -- in this case, a box that only apple makes. -- jon From: "F. E. Schaper" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:33:18 -0400 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush Hey Y'all, Before I got into using Linux I used various versions of the MAC O/S and I always found it to be somewhat unstable, the one thing I did like about it was the fact that it was not nearly as dumbed down as Windows, it is easy to use, but you still need to have some kind of understanding as to what the machine is doing. Hopefully when OS/X gets all the way (it is available in server packages) out they will somehow port it to run on Intel based processor machines, and hopefully the stability problems will be corrected, without having to compromise the ease of use. If these things happen, and the work on developing a more consumer friendly Linux product continues, Microsoft could be in for quite a shock. Of course bad news for Bill is good news for the rest of us. I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. Fritz - Original Message - From: Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 4:56 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Isnt OSX a MAC versions of Operating System. I thought it's not related to Linux. Of course there are some Linux distributions for the Mac. But what I've heard Apple is producing the next generation of O/S entitled OSX. -- It is Mac. But OS X is based on Unix. The buzz is that it is very stable and easy to use. If Mac makes the OS X Intel compatible, watch out! So, although it is not Linux, OS X is a perceived threat to Windoze. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
"F. E. Schaper" wrote: I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. I agree that this is better left somewhere else...but I can't help it...I'll never vote for a potential president whose agenda includes destroying the 2nd amendment in order to achieve the (dubious) honor of removing firearms from Americans! I say again...never. -- /\ DarkLord \/
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: yeah I hope so, Microcrap needs to be wipe out. Open Source Rules!! LOL On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Isnt OSX a MAC versions of Operating System. I thought it's not related to Linux. Of course there are some Linux distributions for the Mac. But what I've heard Apple is producing the next generation of O/S entitled OSX. -- It is Mac. But OS X is based on Unix. The buzz is that it is very stable and easy to use. If Mac makes the OS X Intel compatible, watch out! So, although it is not Linux, OS X is a perceived threat to Windoze. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
I think I will just stay in UK, we may Blair, and have no petrol (Got it at the monent, just waiting for november when they are going to start the blockades again) but its a nice country. "F. E. Schaper" wrote: Hey Y'all, Before I got into using Linux I used various versions of the MAC O/S and I always found it to be somewhat unstable, the one thing I did like about it was the fact that it was not nearly as dumbed down as Windows, it is easy to use, but you still need to have some kind of understanding as to what the machine is doing. Hopefully when OS/X gets all the way (it is available in server packages) out they will somehow port it to run on Intel based processor machines, and hopefully the stability problems will be corrected, without having to compromise the ease of use. If these things happen, and the work on developing a more consumer friendly Linux product continues, Microsoft could be in for quite a shock. Of course bad news for Bill is good news for the rest of us. I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. Fritz - Original Message - From: Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 4:56 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Isnt OSX a MAC versions of Operating System. I thought it's not related to Linux. Of course there are some Linux distributions for the Mac. But what I've heard Apple is producing the next generation of O/S entitled OSX. -- It is Mac. But OS X is based on Unix. The buzz is that it is very stable and easy to use. If Mac makes the OS X Intel compatible, watch out! So, although it is not Linux, OS X is a perceived threat to Windoze. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: the only reason why Mac is different than Intel is the fact they run completely different processors. Mac is PPC Intel is Pentium. An intel port of OS-X is never going to happen. The whole Apple vision depends on a consistent box to go with the OS -- in this case, a box that only apple makes. -- jon From: "F. E. Schaper" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:33:18 -0400 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush Hey Y'all, Before I got into using Linux I used various versions of the MAC O/S and I always found it to be somewhat unstable, the one thing I did like about it was the fact that it was not nearly as dumbed down as Windows, it is easy to use, but you still need to have some kind of understanding as to what the machine is doing. Hopefully when OS/X gets all the way (it is available in server packages) out they will somehow port it to run on Intel based processor machines, and hopefully the stability problems will be corrected, without having to compromise the ease of use. If these things happen, and the work on developing a more consumer friendly Linux product continues, Microsoft could be in for quite a shock. Of course bad news for Bill is good news for the rest of us. I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. Fritz - Original Message - From: Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 4:56 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Isnt OSX a MAC versions of Operating System. I thought it's not related to Linux. Of course there are some Linux distributions for the Mac. But what I've heard Apple is producing the next generation of O/S entitled OSX. -- It is Mac. But OS X is based on Unix. The buzz is that it is very stable and easy to use. If Mac makes the OS X Intel compatible, watch out! So, although it is not Linux, OS X is a perceived threat to Windoze. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
RE: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: I think you'll be surprise. Pardon my heresy, but I don't think Linux will make it as a viable alternative desktop for the masses (no offense intended) for the following reasons: 1) the Linux community is too decentralized. 2) there are no such things as standards, even defacto standards - Cut Paste is an example - there is not even any social pressure for developers to adhere to a standard. 3) window managers make things too different - a nightmare for the corporate world, even though you're running Mandrake (or Debian, or whatever) your window manager makes the environment foreign to anyone that doesn't run that window manager. 4) Linux developers work for free and are not subject to the same QA that Apple is subject to. 5) Linux developers work for free; consequently their incentives to create and contribute are different 6) Linux users in general would probably balk if they had to actually pay for software 7) the average computer user is *required* to make *a lot* of effort understanding how to "operate" the machine. The complexity is not sufficiently hidden from them when needed 8) there is a certain amount of elitism within the Linux community in general which distains the stereotypical "aol/microsoft" user (no offense, just an observation) 9) Linux is inherently a programmers/developers environment and *specifically* geared to those kinds of folks 10) talk like what I'm doing here is not well received by the Linux community in general Again, don't get me wrong I really, really like Linux ( window managers) and I would really like to see it be a viable alternative desktop. But from my personal observations (painful) personal experience and knowing the expectations abilities of my friends family, it's not there yet. I don't expect it to be there in the next 5 to 10 years (even considering internet time). I think there will need to be a broad change in perception among the Linux folks about the "computing world for average folks" before that will happen. Unfortunately, I think Linux will have to be backwardly compatible with MAC and Windows - whatever that means. ps: I've just installed HelixGnome (www.helixgnome.com) and it looks really good though I haven't had a chance to use it yet! -Original Message- From: Jay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 2:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, you wrote: -- Pardon my French, but who gives a s**t. Let Microcrap do what they want. Let's face it, they have had ZERO innovation since the release of Windoze 95. Each "upgrade" is basically cosmetic with a few OEM packages thrown in for added "benefits". Windoze ME is worthless and not necessary. Let them act how they want, they will get theirs in the end. Once other OS's (Linux, the new OS X) start to take off in the desktop market, they will be forced to reactbut remember, everything Microsoft has they bought or stole from somebody...let's see 'em try to buy Linux. I think Gates might have to look up Open-source in a dictionary. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
You're right (technically)... The main difference, though, is that there are a million different configurations of intel machines, and only a handful of apple boxes... Remember mac clones? They didn't last too long, exactly for that reason... even now, I can't get my stupid CD-R running on my Umax s900... while it works fine on my ancient mac 7200 -- jon On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Robin Regennitter wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: the only reason why Mac is different than Intel is the fact they run completely different processors. Mac is PPC Intel is Pentium. An intel port of OS-X is never going to happen. The whole Apple vision depends on a consistent box to go with the OS -- in this case, a box that only apple makes. -- jon From: "F. E. Schaper" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:33:18 -0400 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush Hey Y'all, Before I got into using Linux I used various versions of the MAC O/S and I always found it to be somewhat unstable, the one thing I did like about it was the fact that it was not nearly as dumbed down as Windows, it is easy to use, but you still need to have some kind of understanding as to what the machine is doing. Hopefully when OS/X gets all the way (it is available in server packages) out they will somehow port it to run on Intel based processor machines, and hopefully the stability problems will be corrected, without having to compromise the ease of use. If these things happen, and the work on developing a more consumer friendly Linux product continues, Microsoft could be in for quite a shock. Of course bad news for Bill is good news for the rest of us. I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. Fritz - Original Message - From: Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 4:56 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Isnt OSX a MAC versions of Operating System. I thought it's not related to Linux. Of course there are some Linux distributions for the Mac. But what I've heard Apple is producing the next generation of O/S entitled OSX. -- It is Mac. But OS X is based on Unix. The buzz is that it is very stable and easy to use. If Mac makes the OS X Intel compatible, watch out! So, although it is not Linux, OS X is a perceived threat to Windoze. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Microspot lead the way, now everybody is trying to do it. -Gary- In a message dated 9/27/2000 9:20:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: AFAIK, Mac OS-X (and thats "ten", BTW), is the classic, slick Mac GUI sitting on top of a version of BSD Unix. My little brother just paid $30 for a beta version that he is going to install on his iBook. (go figure-paying that for a beta! smile)
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Okay I have been watching this thread and I just can't resist :-) Let's all join forces (and I do believe that there is a sufficient number of us) and everyone vote (write-in ballot) for the Gov of Minnesota -- Jesse "The Body" Ventura giggle Trust me, no one thought he was going to win the governorship 2 years ago but he did just like the masses do not believe that Linux will be a "viable" O/S against Winblows and I guess all I can say is Only Time Will Tell. :-) Patti - Registered Linux User #184611 Original Message On 9/27/00, 10:28:54 AM, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush: I'd rather pick a random name from the phone book rather than vote for either Bush or Gore. I'll probably end up picking a name from the EFF or something like that. It's better to choose someone I'd really want knowing my canidate has no chance of winning than to throw my vote in behind someone I wouldn't trust to run my Quake server and become just another zombie. Does anyone have any favorites for who we should vote for as the Geek platform? If you wanted to get serious you might pick something like Richard Stallman and Eric Raymond (I probably killed their names but oh well.. I misspell my own name too) but I can't imagine the two of them working together if they could avoid it. So this election day vote for the losser. :) *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Ronald J. Hall wrote: "F. E. Schaper" wrote: I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. I agree that this is better left somewhere else...but I can't help it...I'll never vote for a potential president whose agenda includes destroying the 2nd amendment in order to achieve the (dubious) honor of removing firearms from Americans! I say again...never. -- /\ DarkLord \/
RE: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
[replies below] Richard Garand [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 12190132 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ronald J. Hall Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 10:17 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush "F. E. Schaper" wrote: I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? executing 2 womenand how many men? 200? 2000? I may have to move to Canada next year. yeah
RE: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
I don't really understand how the US elections work, but if you're talking about the president, wouldn't Nader be the best of the current candidates? Richard Garand [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 12190132 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush I'd rather pick a random name from the phone book rather than vote for either Bush or Gore. I'll probably end up picking a name from the EFF or something like that. It's better to choose someone I'd really want knowing my canidate has no chance of winning than to throw my vote in behind someone I wouldn't trust to run my Quake server and become just another zombie. Does anyone have any favorites for who we should vote for as the Geek platform? If you wanted to get serious you might pick something like Richard Stallman and Eric Raymond (I probably killed their names but oh well.. I misspell my own name too) but I can't imagine the two of them working together if they could avoid it. So this election day vote for the losser. :)
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Dunno. I didn't even look before overwriting the included copy of Win ME (funny name eh?) on the new server with Mandrake. Windows blows cheese. All that'd happen is someone would rewrite lilo/grub a little to fix it and then it'd work again. The OS can't really tell the difference. *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, goldenpi wrote: Dont feel great just yet-I hear twindows millenium is going to write its boot code to the MBR so that it cannot be used in a duelboot. Douptless m$ has some exuse-probably say its to combat virus that write to the boot record even through there 10 yeard old. Oppinions of my new sig? I hope it comes through. On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Hey Y'all, Before I got into using Linux I used various versions of the MAC O/S and I always found it to be somewhat unstable, the one thing I did like about it was the fact that it was not nearly as dumbed down as Windows, it is easy to use, but you still need to have some kind of understanding as to what the machine is doing. Hopefully when OS/X gets all the way (it is available in server packages) out they will somehow port it to run on Intel based processor machines, and hopefully the stability problems will be corrected, without having to compromise the ease of use. If these things happen, and the work on developing a more consumer friendly Linux product continues, Microsoft could be in for quite a shock. Of course bad news for Bill is good news for the rest of us. I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. Fritz - Original Message - From: Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 4:56 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Isnt OSX a MAC versions of Operating System. I thought it's not related to Linux. Of course there are some Linux distributions for the Mac. But what I've heard Apple is producing the next generation of O/S entitled OSX. -- It is Mac. But OS X is based on Unix. The buzz is that it is very stable and easy to use. If Mac makes the OS X Intel compatible, watch out! So, although it is not Linux, OS X is a perceived threat to Windoze. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com -- == Goldenpi- programer, unreal level creator, linux user and all round geek. If you are reading this, I sent this mail from linux.
RE: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pardon my heresy, but I don't think Linux will make it as a viable alternative desktop for the masses (no offense intended) for the following reasons: 1) the Linux community is too decentralized. This one I can agree on ;-) One of it's strongest points. What is decentralized is hard to stop. At the same time the community backs it's leaders almost completely. If Linus makes a choice the people will follow him because he is a smart leader. If he is proven wrong he will admit it and go with the new way and give credit where credit is due. This is one reason Linux is so successful. Very decentralized but with strong vortexes of leadership. If you don't like what the leader decides then your free to do your own thing. If you prove them wrong then they usually will recognize your proof. 2) there are no such things as standards, even defacto standards - Cut Paste is an example - there is not even any social pressure for developers to adhere to a standard. I think what you are refering to is there are no "cattle" developers. Standards are only standards if everyone follows them .. who's to say my standard is the right one. In the same respect that MS or APPLE follow standards so does linux ... but Linux goes one better ... name and prove ANY other operating system that actually follows the RFC's for its tcp / udp stack. No time to get into ALL the *relevant* standards that ARE followed .. this is just one example. Anyone who thinks there are no standards obviously haven't followed Linux. It all began based on public standards. A free version of those standards. Where there were not yet standards new standards have been made and submitted to the proper authorities as new standards. I have used pretty much every WM for X and it's been a steady progression. KDE Gnome have both comitted themselves to standardizing cutpaste, dragdrop, etc and are working towards making their components work across both. Jabber has created one of the best references for XML in a real-world product and they are setting the standard for interdevice communication and instant messages. PHP and Perl are open specs that anyone can add to or make their own version of. Both have completely been rewritten at least once to make room for better versions. 3) window managers make things too different - a nightmare for the corporate world, even though you're running Mandrake (or Debian, or whatever) your window manager makes the environment foreign to anyone that doesn't run that window manager. As a person in the corperate environment, I can also agree with this ... at the very low user level. Linux is Linux thats it its applications that people are confusing with the actual operating system ... if you are in an X session and alt to a console it doesn't make ANY difference what window manager you are using ... its all command line anyway ... lest we forget this is UNIX maybe its time to teach more people right from the get go that the little pretty pictures aren't what make an Operating system. If your company doesn't want to support more than one WM then don't. If you do it isn't that hard to do, I know because I do it, and each user can set their own prefs. Using NFS/NIS users only have to set things up once and it is shared across all the machines they have access to. Windows and MacOS can't even begin to touch that without a lot of weird voodoo. 4) Linux developers work for free and are not subject to the same QA that Apple is subject to. WAY off on this one. As a developer working on an open project you are slammed harder than anyone else to make something that exceeds expectations... you think people who pay for things can be demanding try coding for free LOL and not only offer it for free...but give people the means to contact you PERSONALLY so they can reach you whenever they want. Its an awsome and exciting thing ... if you code because you love it ... not *just* because it feeds you plus its not just an installed base of 10 people who you had to sell your software to becasue its free 10's of thousands of people (including smarter coders) will be sending you *feedback* before you know it, if there are ANY problems they are usually pointed out pretty quickly. This is the only real way to get the QA corperations make it LOOK like they have. (isolated testing by a team or teams who punch a clock) In the same respect this is how projects are guaged to live and prosper of die off. I guess for some it is pretty hard to comprehend loving something so much you would spend all your free time working on it with the only goal being to make it better than everyone elses especially when you give it away for free. Right on. As a sysadmin I can say I dread when I have to use commercial software. It is buggier, harder to setup, and has much stricter requirements than opensource software. As a
Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Where does he stand on IP ownership issues etc? *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Patti Wavinak wrote: Okay I have been watching this thread and I just can't resist :-) Let's all join forces (and I do believe that there is a sufficient number of us) and everyone vote (write-in ballot) for the Gov of Minnesota -- Jesse "The Body" Ventura giggle Trust me, no one thought he was going to win the governorship 2 years ago but he did just like the masses do not believe that Linux will be a "viable" O/S against Winblows and I guess all I can say is Only Time Will Tell. :-) Patti - Registered Linux User #184611 Original Message On 9/27/00, 10:28:54 AM, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush: I'd rather pick a random name from the phone book rather than vote for either Bush or Gore. I'll probably end up picking a name from the EFF or something like that. It's better to choose someone I'd really want knowing my canidate has no chance of winning than to throw my vote in behind someone I wouldn't trust to run my Quake server and become just another zombie. Does anyone have any favorites for who we should vote for as the Geek platform? If you wanted to get serious you might pick something like Richard Stallman and Eric Raymond (I probably killed their names but oh well.. I misspell my own name too) but I can't imagine the two of them working together if they could avoid it. So this election day vote for the losser. :) *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Ronald J. Hall wrote: "F. E. Schaper" wrote: I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. I agree that this is better left somewhere else...but I can't help it...I'll never vote for a potential president whose agenda includes destroying the 2nd amendment in order to achieve the (dubious) honor of removing firearms from Americans! I say again...never. -- /\ DarkLord \/
RE: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
"F. E. Schaper" wrote: I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. I agree that this is better left somewhere else...but I can't help it...I'll never vote for a potential president whose agenda includes destroying the 2nd amendment in order to achieve the (dubious) honor of removing firearms from Americans! I say again...never. -- /\ DarkLord How about a potential president who claims to have invented the internet??? An 'A' for originality? Mike
RE: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
I'm dual booting WinME and Mandrake right now. I haven't payed much attention to this thread. I just saw something about dual booting Mandrake and WinME. If you have 2 hard drives, it's easy. Put ME on one, and Mandrake on the other. Set the Linux drive to master, and you're set. If you have one hard drive, just install Mandrake AFTER windows. Tyler -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 5:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush Dunno. I didn't even look before overwriting the included copy of Win ME (funny name eh?) on the new server with Mandrake. Windows blows cheese. All that'd happen is someone would rewrite lilo/grub a little to fix it and then it'd work again. The OS can't really tell the difference. *^*^*^* Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of sungod robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? -- Real Genius On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, goldenpi wrote: Dont feel great just yet-I hear twindows millenium is going to write its boot code to the MBR so that it cannot be used in a duelboot. Douptless m$ has some exuse-probably say its to combat virus that write to the boot record even through there 10 yeard old. Oppinions of my new sig? I hope it comes through. On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Hey Y'all, Before I got into using Linux I used various versions of the MAC O/S and I always found it to be somewhat unstable, the one thing I did like about it was the fact that it was not nearly as dumbed down as Windows, it is easy to use, but you still need to have some kind of understanding as to what the machine is doing. Hopefully when OS/X gets all the way (it is available in server packages) out they will somehow port it to run on Intel based processor machines, and hopefully the stability problems will be corrected, without having to compromise the ease of use. If these things happen, and the work on developing a more consumer friendly Linux product continues, Microsoft could be in for quite a shock. Of course bad news for Bill is good news for the rest of us. I'll leave the Presidential debate open for others to discuss as I think that is too far off topic for this list, but I will ask you this: Do you want a President who, up until this point is most famous for approving the execution of 2 women, and for picking his nose on national television? I may have to move to Canada next year. Fritz - Original Message - From: Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 4:56 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, you wrote: Isnt OSX a MAC versions of Operating System. I thought it's not related to Linux. Of course there are some Linux distributions for the Mac. But what I've heard Apple is producing the next generation of O/S entitled OSX. -- It is Mac. But OS X is based on Unix. The buzz is that it is very stable and easy to use. If Mac makes the OS X Intel compatible, watch out! So, although it is not Linux, OS X is a perceived threat to Windoze. Jay "May the sound of happy music, And the lilt of Irish laughter, fill your heart with gladness, that stays forever after." "May the enemies of Ireland never meet a friend." http://www.mrsnooky.com -- == Goldenpi- programer, unreal level creator, linux user and all round geek. If you are reading this, I sent this mail from linux.
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
yes macintosh is developing a system based on the linux/unix os, mirosoft helped a little ofcourse, but the new os looks promissing however stability of our precious kernel was sacraficed a little infact during the demo that steve jobs played, cant remember where off hand but one of the programs stalled however it did not bring down the whole os and was easily exited, you can find the article somewhere on abc.com In a message dated 27-Sep-00 03:10:03 Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isnt OSX a MAC versions of Operating System. I thought it's not related to Linux. Of course there are some Linux distributions for the Mac. But what I've heard Apple is producing the next generation of O/S entitled OSX. Rob
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
research by some university shows that statistically linux is the second most popular os in the world, #1 is still winblows however there are many benifits in the linux community you have thousands of developers who find a bug post it and instantly thousands of others begin working on the problem and post a solution within record time!!, you can find that on one of the many linux news sites accompanying bill gates comment about linux! i feel linux has potential given i am a dead beat basic programmer (cringes at the thought of microsoft programming) but from what i have seen of linux mainly mandrake proven #1 in usability and richness in features there can be an obtainable goal of uniformity soon grub, sawmill, kde and other guis will merely be a skin, i particularly like kde but thats only because it looks better and currently on my system is more stable, we have seen many advancements in the linux world as well, (ie microprogramming, qnx, trinux, the number one triumph of all started in the beginning stability) the linux community can band together but it may take a little bit of effort we have many companys working together and more joining every day but i will give you that it is hard and everyone has their own ideas, who knows we may have a programmer who is analyizing every bit of code out there for linux and is secretly creating the ultimate linux os in his basement, the box for every user!!! i want to be that person but i have much to learn!
[newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Has any one heard? The Microsoft Antitrust Case is going to a lower court. And if George W. Bush has his way. Mr. Bill will be able add - force people to accept what comes with Windows? It's a sad day. Just my $0.02 Roman
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
The Microsoft Antitrust Case is going to a lower court. And if George W. Bush has his way. Mr. Bil will be able add - force people to accept what comes with Windows? It's a sad day. I believe Microsoft should be able to add whatever they want to their products. I sure don't want anyone telling KDE they can't put Konquerer into their GUI. But you're wrong about them forcing anyone to accept what comes with Windows. That's what this conference is all about. Just my $0.02 Hey...with my couple pennies we've got four. My guess is that we'll have enough to buy the next Mandrake upgrade before this thread is over :-) Cheers --- Larry
Re: [newbie] Microsoft and George W. Bush
Not really...He can't do a thing to the beautiful OS I'm running on my box that will likely still be running WITHOUT being rebooted once till they finally get done doodling around in court! I don't look for that to happen for another 5-10 years at least. -- Mark ** =/\= No Penguins were harmed | ICQ#27816299 ** _||_ in the making of this | ** =\/= message...| Registered Linux user #182496 On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Romanator wrote: Has any one heard? The Microsoft Antitrust Case is going to a lower court. And if George W. Bush has his way. Mr. Bill will be able add - force people to accept what comes with Windows? It's a sad day. Just my $0.02 Roman
