RE: [ozmidwifery] Twins Vaginal Birth - Names Please...
These lists that are collating (eg. waterbirths and Breech VB) are a wonderful resource. Riding on Kelly's ideas for perhaps a list of Obs/Hosp/MW that support twins VB...could be useful too...? From: "Kelly Zantey" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Breech Birth - Names Please...Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:23:44 +1100 Yes please!!! If you can include state/suburb and phone number please J Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator,BellyBelly.com.au Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby BellyBelly Birth Support From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lisa BarrettSent: Friday, December 22, 2006 1:09 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Breech Birth - Names Please... Do you want midwives Kelly? I attend them. Lisa Barrett - Original Message - From: Kelly Zantey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 11:18 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Breech Birth - Names Please... I am compiling a list of Obs/carers who will support a woman for vaginal breech birth as I am seeing more breech women pop up and think they have no choice, booked in for caesars at 37-38wks. So if I can at least help them find a supportive carer, it makes it a heck of a lot easier to accept other info ;) So if you can please let me know if you have names of anyone doing vaginal breech birth around Australia, I am going to collate them. Thanks! Ps. I already have Lionel Steinberg (attended a great breech birth a couple of weeks ago with him as carer), Guy Skinner and David Freidin in Melbourne, would love stacks more. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Advertisement: Mobiles, computers, handsets, iPODs and more! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] twins labour/birth
Kristin, I've only seen a dvd of a homebirth of twins..there was a good gap between twin 1 and 2. From memory around 40 minutes (but perhaps longer) second twin was breech and took atleast 15 minutes to be born once her body was out. It was a waterbirth. I can't imagine these time's being 'acceptable' in hospital! Infact i know i've heard horror stories where ob's have intervened to hasten twin 2's birth with dire ramifications. The dvd is a good one and they sell it through ICSM or the centre for human transformation if you're interested. Cheers, Cate -- - Birthing Journey Doula Service - Cate Tischler 0432 333 970 Kristin Beckedahl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] twins labour/birth
Hi Kristen Yes you can do EFM for twins. Most machines will record 2 heartbeats, commonly a scalp electrode is placed on twin 1 and external monitor on twin 2. How long between twins? In hospital situations it is usual to see fairly rapid delivery (extraction) of twin 2 after no. 1 usually only a few minutes- Obs seem to be very uncomfortable with waiting :-) It is usually baby, baby then both placentae together - there should be no attempt to deliver the placenta by CCT until both babies are born, and if physiological 3rd stage happening the placentae would normally come together after both bubs. They are often fused or joined. I have never seen ECVused for twin 2 - most obs will reach in and perform a breech extraction - i.e. grasp a leg - without waiting to see if bub is going to descend head or bum first.The attendant should palpate the abdomen to ascertain the lie of twin 2 following first birth. In hospital twin births the woman would be given epidural this is mainly to allow for 'manipulation' of twin 2. Hope this helps - this is not normal physiological birth of twins but rather 'normal' hospital management - if they 'allow' vaginal birth in the first place! And I cannot imagine any ob of my long aquaintance 'allowing' physiological 3rd stage with twins :-) Justines twin birth story - now there's an entirely different matter - tell her Justine! Sue - Original Message - From: Kristin Beckedahl To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] twins labour/birth I have a couple of questions re twins: Can you do EFM with twins ? Or are they usually monitored with the doppler? How long is is typically between twins birth? Is it usually baby-placenta, baby-placenta or can it be baby-baby-placenta-placenta? If ECV is needed to help Twin 2 - does the mother need any medication for this? Big thanks, Kristin See The Killers in the UK. Download mobile stuff to win! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.18/506 - Release Date: 30/10/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] twins labour/birth
Thanks to all for your reponses. I shall digest and relay this information 'gently' to the CBE couple I have. Already (since doing the course) they have changed Obst and also hospitals, plus are also arranging a doula. You are all right in saying there are no guarantees and it will come down to the day, and especially Twin 2. But in saying that I am a firm believer in the effort to communicate and perhaps negiotate with caregivers as much as possible, at least that way (regardless of the outcome) they feel they have given it their best shot and taken the opportunity to make informed choices around the birththis may lessen the 'what if's." a little later perhaps? Cheers, Kristin Meet Sexy Singles Today @ Lavalife - Click here -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] twins labour/birth
I have a couple of questions re twins: Can you do EFM with twins ? Or are they usually monitored with the doppler? How long is is typically between twins birth? Is it usually baby-placenta, baby-placenta or can it be baby-baby-placenta-placenta? If ECV is needed to help Twin 2 - does the mother need any medication for this? Big thanks, KristinSee The Killers in the UK. Download mobile stuff to win! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Twins
Hi all, I'm a CBE and have had a call from a lady with twins looking to attend the course I'm running. Seeing I've never had much to do with twins (preg, birthor babycare) I was hoping some of you could shed some light on some important points or issues that I could pass onto her. Thanks so much, Kristin -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Twins
Hi Kirsten I run a Twice Blessed session on a needs basis and have a session outline and a handout that I give to women if that would help. Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: Kristin Beckedahl To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Twins Hi all, I'm a CBE and have had a call from a lady with twins looking to attend the course I'm running. Seeing I've never had much to do with twins (preg, birthor babycare) I was hoping some of you could shed some light on some important points or issues that I could pass onto her. Thanks so much, Kristin-- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Options for twins
Yes, she has a copy. But thanks Sonja. On 4/26/06, Sonja Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you given her a copy of Justine Caines' article High Risk birth - Defined by Whom? found in Birth Matters vol10.1. Sonja - Original Message - From: Lesleycs To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 10:42 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Options for twins Dear list, I hope you can suggest a few options fora friend's daughter who is pregnant with twins and looking forwomen-friendly care. Her holisticbackground combined withinitial visits toGP andobstetricianhasleft her disturbed, defiant,and waryofgetting caught up in the system. But she is unsure of her options. I've given her some generalinformation about multiples (from 'Midwifery Matters', UK Midwifery archives, this list, AIMS, 'Birth Matters',details of MIPP etc.) together with some very-much-needed positive twin birth stories - all of which has affirmed her strong desire tokeep this pregnancy and birth normal. She lives in outer S.E. suburbs of Melbourne. Isopen to independent midwifery care, although money is an issue. Also no private health insurance. She's feels limited in her options and pushed to obstetric care by default, and is askingfornames of women-friendly practitioners. (Heard there was someone out Warrigal way?) What are her options? As 'high risk' does shequalify for any midwifery care programs? Are there any decent public shared careoptions in the area?And if she ispushed to find the money forprivate care how wouldthe cost ofindependent midwifery carecompare with an obstetrician? Any suggestions most welcome at this stage. Many thanks, Lesley
Re: [ozmidwifery] Options for twins
Have you given her a copy of Justine Caines' article "High Risk birth - Defined by Whom?" found in Birth Matters vol10.1. Sonja - Original Message - From: Lesleycs To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 10:42 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Options for twins Dear list, I hope you can suggest a few options fora friend's daughter who is pregnant with twins and looking forwomen-friendly care. Her holisticbackground combined withinitial visits toGP andobstetricianhasleft her disturbed, defiant,and waryofgetting caught up in the system. But she is unsure of her options. I've given her some generalinformation about multiples (from 'Midwifery Matters', UK Midwifery archives, this list, AIMS, 'Birth Matters',details of MIPP etc.) together with some very-much-needed positive twin birth stories - all of which has affirmed her strong desire tokeep this pregnancy and birth normal. She lives in outer S.E. suburbs of Melbourne. Isopen to independent midwifery care, although money is an issue. Also no private health insurance. She's feels limited in her options and pushed to obstetric care by default, and is askingfornames of women-friendly practitioners. (Heard there was someone out Warrigal way?) What are her options? As 'high risk' does shequalify for any midwifery care programs? Are there any decent public shared careoptions in the area?And if she ispushed to find the money forprivate care how wouldthe cost ofindependent midwifery carecompare with an obstetrician? Any suggestions most welcome at this stage. Many thanks, Lesley
[ozmidwifery] Options for twins
I've passedon the information to the mum-to-be. Thanks to all as it has broadened her options. Lesley
[ozmidwifery] Options for twins
Dear list, I hope you can suggest a few options fora friend's daughter who is pregnant with twins and looking forwomen-friendly care. Her holisticbackground combined withinitial visits toGP andobstetricianhasleft her disturbed, defiant,and waryofgetting caught up in the system. But she is unsure of her options. I've given her some generalinformation about multiples (from 'Midwifery Matters', UK Midwifery archives, this list, AIMS, 'Birth Matters',details of MIPP etc.) together with some very-much-needed positive twin birth stories - all of which has affirmed her strong desire tokeep this pregnancy and birth normal. She lives in outer S.E. suburbs of Melbourne. Isopen to independent midwifery care, although money is an issue. Also no private health insurance. She's feels limited in her options and pushed to obstetric care by default, and is askingfornames of women-friendly practitioners. (Heard there was someone out Warrigal way?) What are her options? As 'high risk' does shequalify for any midwifery care programs? Are there any decent public shared careoptions in the area?And if she ispushed to find the money forprivate care how wouldthe cost ofindependent midwifery carecompare with an obstetrician? Any suggestions most welcome at this stage. Many thanks, Lesley
RE: [ozmidwifery] Options for twins
Lesley, I supported a twin vaginal birth at Box Hill hospital. It was such a fight but we did it. If you want to contact me off list then I would be glad to give you any help and advice along the way. I could also pass on details of the mother as I am sure she would be happy to chat to her too. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Lesleycs Sent: Friday, 21 April 2006 10:42 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Options for twins Dear list, I hope you can suggest a few options fora friend's daughter who is pregnant with twins and looking forwomen-friendly care. Her holisticbackground combined withinitial visits toGP andobstetricianhasleft her disturbed, defiant,and waryofgetting caught up in the system. But she is unsure of her options. I've given her some generalinformation about multiples (from 'Midwifery Matters', UK Midwifery archives, this list, AIMS, 'Birth Matters',details of MIPP etc.) together with some very-much-needed positive twin birth stories - all of which has affirmed her strong desire tokeep this pregnancy and birth normal. She lives in outer S.E. suburbs of Melbourne. Isopen to independent midwifery care, although money is an issue. Also no private health insurance. She's feels limited in her options and pushed to obstetric care by default, and is askingfornames of women-friendly practitioners. (Heard there was someone out Warrigal way?) What are her options? As 'high risk' does shequalify for any midwifery care programs? Are there any decent public shared careoptions in the area?And if she ispushed to find the money forprivate care how wouldthe cost ofindependent midwifery carecompare with an obstetrician? Any suggestions most welcome at this stage. Many thanks, Lesley
Re: [ozmidwifery] Options for twins
Hi, Homebirth could be an option for this woman if she find practitioners willing to attend. Remember she will receive twice the maternity allowance of $4000 (from July on) so the costs of the homebirth will be covered. My med student daughter only yesterday was with an obstetrician who stated that the only real reason for c/sections was placenta praevias - so encourage the woman to keep that firmly in mind. If the first baby settles head first then there is a very good chance that she can birth the twins vaginally - at home if midwives are willing or in reasonable hospitals if appropriate care and care-providers can be found. Sounds like she has the courage to work for the birth that she wants, so good luck. I'm not familiar with the scene in Melbourne but there is a good lot of support there for women wishing to avoid the obstetric treadmill. Sue Dear list, I hope you can suggest a few options for a friend's daughter who is pregnant with twins and looking for women-friendly care. Her holistic background combined with initial visits to GP and obstetrician has left her disturbed, defiant, and wary of getting caught up in the system. But she is unsure of her options. I've given her some general information about multiples (from 'Midwifery Matters', UK Midwifery archives, this list, AIMS, 'Birth Matters', details of MIPP etc.) together with some very-much-needed positive twin birth stories - all of which has affirmed her strong desire to keep this pregnancy and birth normal. She lives in outer S.E. suburbs of Melbourne. Is open to independent midwifery care, although money is an issue. Also no private health insurance. She's feels limited in her options and pushed to obstetric care by default, and is asking for names of women-friendly practitioners. (Heard there was someone out Warrigal way?) What are her options? As 'high risk' does she qualify for any midwifery care programs? Are there any decent public shared care options in the area? And if she is pushed to find the money for private care how would the cost of independent midwifery care compare with an obstetrician? Any suggestions most welcome at this stage. Many thanks, Lesley -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Options for twins
Hi Lesley, For inspiration your friends daughter may be interested in a DVD of a homebirth of twins here in Melbourne - fairly recently (a couple of years ago i think). From memory it's called Homebirth of the Malcolm Twins, you could try contacting Davini at ICSM if your interested: http://www.womenofspirit.asn.au/practitioners.html#davini I hope she finds the support she needs. Cate Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Homebirth could be an option for this woman if she find practitioners willing to attend. Remember she will receive twice the maternity allowance of $4000 (from July on) so the costs of the homebirth will be covered. My med student daughter only yesterday was with an obstetrician who stated that the only real reason for c/sections was placenta praevias - so encourage the woman to keep that firmly in mind. If the first baby settles head first then there is a very good chance that she can birth the twins vaginally - at home if midwives are willing or in reasonable hospitals if appropriate care and care-providers can be found. Sounds like she has the courage to work for the birth that she wants, so good luck. I'm not familiar with the scene in Melbourne but there is a good lot of support there for women wishing to avoid the obstetric treadmill. Sue Dear list, I hope you can suggest a few options for a friend's daughter who is pregnant with twins and looking for women-friendly care. Her holistic background combined with initial visits to GP and obstetrician has left her disturbed, defiant, and wary of getting caught up in the system. But she is unsure of her options. I've given her some general information about multiples (from 'Midwifery Matters', UK Midwifery archives, this list, AIMS, 'Birth Matters', details of MIPP etc.) together with some very-much-needed positive twin birth stories - all of which has affirmed her strong desire to keep this pregnancy and birth normal. She lives in outer S.E. suburbs of Melbourne. Is open to independent midwifery care, although money is an issue. Also no private health insurance. She's feels limited in her options and pushed to obstetric care by default, and is asking for names of women-friendly practitioners. (Heard there was someone out Warrigal way?) What are her options? As 'high risk' does she qualify for any midwifery care programs? Are there any decent public shared care options in the area? And if she is pushed to find the money for private care how would the cost of independent midwifery care compare with an obstetrician? Any suggestions most welcome at this stage. Many thanks, Lesley -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Options for twins
There is a ' woman friendly' doctor at Ferntree Gully. Contact off list for name if interested. Maureen -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBellySent: Saturday, 22 April 2006 8:23 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Options for twins Lesley, I supported a twin vaginal birth at Box Hill hospital. It was such a fight but we did it. If you want to contact me off list then I would be glad to give you any help and advice along the way. I could also pass on details of the mother as I am sure she would be happy to chat to her too. Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of LesleycsSent: Friday, 21 April 2006 10:42 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Options for twins Dear list, I hope you can suggest a few options fora friend's daughter who is pregnant with twins and looking forwomen-friendly care. Her holisticbackground combined withinitial visits toGP andobstetricianhasleft her disturbed, defiant,and waryofgetting caught up in the system. But she is unsure of her options. I've given her some generalinformation about multiples (from 'Midwifery Matters', UK Midwifery archives, this list, AIMS, 'Birth Matters',details of MIPP etc.) together with some very-much-needed positive twin birth stories - all of which has affirmed her strong desire tokeep this pregnancy and birth normal. She lives in outer S.E. suburbs of Melbourne. Isopen to independent midwifery care, although money is an issue. Also no private health insurance. She's feels limited in her options and pushed to obstetric care by default, and is askingfornames of women-friendly practitioners. (Heard there was someone out Warrigal way?) What are her options? As 'high risk' does shequalify for any midwifery care programs? Are there any decent public shared careoptions in the area?And if she ispushed to find the money forprivate care how wouldthe cost ofindependent midwifery carecompare with an obstetrician? Any suggestions most welcome at this stage. Many thanks, Lesley
[ozmidwifery] beautiful twins
Congratulations Im so glad to hear everything went how you envisionged and everyone is healthy. Also, i was beginning to run out of candles to burn :) regards emily Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: twins birth story
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: twins birth story Hi Justine, I'll be thinking of you and wish you a wonderful birth. I hope you'll let me read your birth story. My email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] for chatting any time. How are you feeling? All the best, Yvette 8 week old twins, vaginal birth - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: twins birth story Dear YvetteYour little ones look beautiful. Oh to have 2 girls!I am sorry you had all that intervention. I truly hope to avoid all of that in the next few weeks.I may need to chat to you for post-natal coping skills!!Kind regardsJustine34 weeks (twins no idea what, but I bet theres one boy!!)
[ozmidwifery] Re: twins birth story
Hi all, Some of you may remember me going on about trying to plan a vaginal twins birth. Babies are 8 weeks old now here's the full birth story. http://bellybelly.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15647 Kind Regards, Yvette Mum of 5 http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/t/twingirlslb/
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: twins birth story
Fantastic Yvette. I have been wondering a lot lately how you went. I wish you all the best for the future. Cheers Judy --- Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Some of you may remember me going on about trying to plan a vaginal twins birth. Babies are 8 weeks old now here's the full birth story. http://bellybelly.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15647 Kind Regards, Yvette Mum of 5 http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/t/twingirlslb/ Do you Yahoo!? Find a local business fast with Yahoo! Local Search http://au.local.yahoo.com Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database. http://au.movies.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: twins birth story
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: twins birth story Dear Yvette Your little ones look beautiful. Oh to have 2 girls! I am sorry you had all that intervention. I truly hope to avoid all of that in the next few weeks. I may need to chat to you for post-natal coping skills!! Kind regards Justine 34 weeks (twins no idea what, but I bet theres one boy!!)
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: twins birth story
Congrats Yvette to you and your family kind regards Sally-Anne - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 4:59 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: twins birth story Hi all, Some of you may remember me going on about trying to plan a vaginal twins birth. Babies are 8 weeks old now here's the full birth story. http://bellybelly.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15647 Kind Regards, Yvette Mum of 5 http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/t/twingirlslb/ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 21/10/2005 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 21/10/2005
[ozmidwifery] VBAC Breech Twins
Okay women, here's your miracle for the day! This is from a doula friend in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. She has given permission to share it far and wide so feel free to repost. GloriaHello Everyone,I would like to report that my VBAC, Breech, with twins client gave birth totally naturally and without intervention at the Rockyview hospital last week. It was an awesome thing to witness. A woman saying No Thank You to fear mongering and letting her body guide the way. Baby A was breech so the 2nd stage was slow and the doctors can be quite intense with their comments. Here are some for the records .Delivering these babies naturally is just the same as throwing them off a cliff andYouve had a C-section before, and your uterus is now slowing down with contractions, these are signs that your uterus is about to explode, and that will kill you and your babiesThe babies are healthy and happy and the mom is so excited to have conquered her fears. Having had a C-section previously, she said that concentrating on the short term pain for long term gain got her through it. She couldnt bare the thought of another incision and now 3 babies to take care of. When the babies were delivered the room had 15 people in it. There was actually applause when the first baby emerged bum first. I think that after the staff realized that the Mom was going all the way with the requests they got excited (doc included). The hospital took advantage of the happening and invited various interns and students to the birth so that they could get an education on breech, twin deliveries. I guess not that many women ever get a chance to follow through with it, so no one gets the education. I was totally alarmed to that the hospital was so helpful. One of the nurses mentioned that the hospital had an incident 6 months ago where they tried to withdraw care because the woman wouldnt listen to them and things went bad so some policies have supposedly changed and they care for people no matter what their birth requests. I was impressed with the people on staff that day, but the pessimist in me knows the battle isnt over but things are changing! Thank you to Gloria and Patty who I called heading into the birth when some of the fear was rubbing off on me the Doula!Charis Curtis, W.T.Prema Sai Wholistic Living2713 14th St SWCalgary, AB T2T 3V2[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.premasai.ca
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Breech Twins
Thankyou so much for sharing this Gloria. This is the most brilliant thing I've heard for ages. It shows how motherscan change the culture from within, if we're strong enough. What an incredibly brave woman. I would love to read the birth story if there is one. This is the kind of thing I want to tell all the pregnant twins mums I meet. At an AMBA morning tea the other day I was the only one of 5 to have had a vaginal birth. This has absolutely made my day! Woke up in a very grouchy mood, perhaps I'll have a better day now. Would love to hear more of this sort of thing. It just doesn't occur to most people to question anything we're told by doctors midwives in hospital. We should be encouraged to ask ourselves, ok, if I just say no what will happen. We have a right to be in a hospital if we choose to without being held to ransom. I struggled to get my vaginal birth, and struggled with the fear passed on to me and to my husband. Had my babies been breech I'd have had no hope. I'd love to meet this woman and thank her on behalf of all mothers. Yvette mother of 5 including 1 month old twins Ps still working on full birth story, will post link when it's done. - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:30 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Breech Twins Okay women, here's your miracle for the day! This is from a doula friend in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. She has given permission to share it far and wide so feel free to repost. GloriaHello Everyone,I would like to report that my VBAC, Breech, with twins client gave birth totally naturally and without intervention at the Rockyview hospital last week. It was an awesome thing to witness. A woman saying No Thank You to fear mongering and letting her body guide the way. Baby A was breech so the 2nd stage was slow and the doctors can be quite intense with their comments. Here are some for the records .Delivering these babies naturally is just the same as throwing them off a cliff andYouve had a C-section before, and your uterus is now slowing down with contractions, these are signs that your uterus is about to explode, and that will kill you and your babiesThe babies are healthy and happy and the mom is so excited to have conquered her fears. Having had a C-section previously, she said that concentrating on the short term pain for long term gain got her through it. She couldnt bare the thought of another incision and now 3 babies to take care of. When the babies were delivered the room had 15 people in it. There was actually applause when the first baby emerged bum first. I think that after the staff realized that the Mom was going all the way with the requests they got excited (doc included). The hospital took advantage of the happening and invited various interns and students to the birth so that they could get an education on breech, twin deliveries. I guess not that many women ever get a chance to follow through with it, so no one gets the education. I was totally alarmed to that the hospital was so helpful. One of the nurses mentioned that the hospital had an incident 6 months ago where they tried to withdraw care because the woman wouldnt listen to them and things went bad so some policies have supposedly changed and they care for people no matter what their birth requests. I was impressed with the people on staff that day, but the pessimist in me knows the battle isnt over but things are changing! Thank you to Gloria and Patty who I called heading into the birth when some of the fear was rubbing off on me the Doula!Charis Curtis, W.T.Prema Sai Wholistic Living2713 14th St SWCalgary, AB T2T 3V2[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.premasai.ca
[ozmidwifery] missing twins
Sue I have experienced an uss missing twins on two occasions. I had an awful working relationship in an isolated aboriginal community setting with a doctor who thought it was appropriate to ultrasound pregnant women rather than actually palpating their abdomens at all. All these women had no dates and so I always guesstimated their dates by fundal height etc. We had a very basic uss machine but good enough to get a bpd and placental position etc. Women were always in 2nd trimester at the earliest when presenting for the first visit. Doctor scanned woman - gave estimate of gestation and placental site - singleton pregnancy. I saw woman again in four weeks time and hello - very marked increase in fundal height - took her into town to do a formal uss with an ultrasonographer and there were 2 babies! This also happened again within a few months with same doctor( amazing coincidence). Goes to show that there is a lot to be said for the power of a tape measure and the same measurer. Suffice it to say I had ongoing issues with this person's practice, patient careand politics involved. Maxine
Re: [ozmidwifery] missing twins
I know a midwife in WA a few years back who attended a homebirth in a country area expecting a singleton to discover twins The woman had seen a doctor and an U/S on at least 2 previous occasions Denise Hynd "Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled." Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Maxine Wilson To: ozmid Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:29 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] missing twins Sue I have experienced an uss missing twins on two occasions. I had an awful working relationship in an isolated aboriginal community setting with a doctor who thought it was appropriate to ultrasound pregnant women rather than actually palpating their abdomens at all. All these women had no dates and so I always guesstimated their dates by fundal height etc. We had a very basic uss machine but good enough to get a bpd and placental position etc. Women were always in 2nd trimester at the earliest when presenting for the first visit. Doctor scanned woman - gave estimate of gestation and placental site - singleton pregnancy. I saw woman again in four weeks time and hello - very marked increase in fundal height - took her into town to do a formal uss with an ultrasonographer and there were 2 babies! This also happened again within a few months with same doctor( amazing coincidence). Goes to show that there is a lot to be said for the power of a tape measure and the same measurer. Suffice it to say I had ongoing issues with this person's practice, patient careand politics involved. Maxine No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 2/09/2005
Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
This thread on twin births is most interesting and insightful. I have been fortunate to atttend twin births several times over the years, but it never used to be considered the drama that it seems to be nowadays, and I think this is largely due to ill-advised interference which gives rise to problems, which gives rise to the perception that the twins are the problem rather than the way they were managed! This month we have had 5 sets of twins where I work. Only one set was born vaginally! I visited this mother today and we talked about the birth. No 1 was spontaneous SVD ( 3790g!) by the midwife, and then the dr took over for no 2. There was only 6 minutes between 1 2 - the second bag of waters was ruptured and bub delivered by high Keillands - obviously great haste to get second twin born. The woman had an epidural but it was not effective and she found the second birth very painful (what a surprise!) Both babies are doing very well. I remember a twin birth about 20 years ago in UK. No 1 was SVD but again the doc took over from midwife for no 2, did ARM before the secong baby had entered the pelvis, got a cord prolapse, panicked and rushed to theatre. There was unfortunately a 20 minute delay in performing the emergency C/S and twin 2 sustained injury causing cerebral palsy. I knew this family and it took about 15 years for them to get any compensation, they had to undergo a lengthy and distressing legal battle, as well as raising a child with significant disability. It seems that the medical view is to get twin 2 out as quickly as possible with no regard for physiology. Most insist on an epidural so that they can manually extract no. 2 by reaching in to grasp a foot and bring it down. I don't know what the answer is to having a 'normal' twin birth. I can understand the view of the parents in the DVD wishing to go it alone and trust their own instincts. But it is a tricky one. Few midwives are able to take on care of twins, they would certainly be villified by the medical profession. Yet hospital twin birth is almost always highly medicalised. Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 1:44 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. The risk of cord prolapse is increased with a presenting part that is NOT cephalic, however, there is a great deal of adrenalin production obstetrics which I am dubious about. Nature does have another protection in the event of cord prolapse called Wharton's jelly in the cord. When we try to ligate the vessels after birth by tying cord tape or dental floss around it, we have to really put our whole body weight and strength into getting it tight enough to stop blood flow through those vessels EVEN WHEN THE PULSE HAS STOPPED in the cord for many minutes. So, although no one wants to have a cord prolapse, and, of course, smart, prompt action should be taken, I have come to suspect pronouncements by obstetricians about what would have happened if had not occurred. The greatest danger in cord prolapse, in my view, is during second stage with a primip having the cord pinched between the bony pelvis and the bony head. Another extreme danger might be the pack a day (Or more) smoking mom who has a skinny umbilical cord and already compromised baby. I think that a big part of midwifery is educating each other and pregnant women to look more objectively at the drama that surrounds complications in birth and ask ourselves is the mythology actually true. Thanks for posting that story, Jo, because it's definately not right to just quote wonderful stories where everything turned out perfectly by just sitting on hands. My question that I always come down to with modern obstetrics is How many are killed or injured by the fear who would have lived if they had gone out and squatted in the woods somewhere? It's a juggling act, for sure. There have been so many second twins that die or are injured in medical care and somehow those stories are buried. I think this is one of the reasons that more families in N. America are saying The hell with it, we'll take our chances with Mother Nature and accept responsibility for the consequences. Gloria Lemay Quoting Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED]: - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Thanks Jo, that's really good to know just in case that happened to me. I'll mention possible cord prolapse to the midwife Ob when I see them next. Gloria I've seen that website, seen the stills read the birth story though not bought the DVD. I've seen another DVD of a planned twins
RE: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
I have recently received a copy of the most incredible twin birth dvd I have ever seen. It is the home, water, lotus birth of twins in Vic and just absolutely amazing. Well worth a look. It can be purchased through The Centre for Human Transformations, cost is $60. Cheques and money orders can be made out to the above name and sent to 228 Greenwood Lane, Steels Creek VIC 3775 Enjoy. JO x From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Gloria Lemay Sent: Friday, 29 July 2005 11:52 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Here's her website, it has lots of stills of the births but the DVD is just so special. Highly recommended. http://www.earthbirthproductions.com/index_files/Page864.htm - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Gloria, Would you be happy to share the name where that DVD can be found.? It could be inspirational for some women ( and OBs) here ? Thanks Brenda M - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. I've been told that once the first twin is birthed, the second attendant should stand behind the mother and press attendants' hands firmly against the sides of the uterus from the backto encourage the second one to be a longitudinal lies. Has anyone on this list done this? I have virtually no experience with twins. There is an absolutely beautiful DVD of twins born unassisted at home that has come onto the market here in N. A. It is the birth of full term 7 lb babies and the mother is so cool. When she realizes the 2nd one is coming footling breech, she say Oh shit, it's a foot. Her husband, who is holding the first born twin and the 2 y.o. as well as videotaping, says What do you want me to do? She replies Keep videotaping! The film is a real gift in a world gone mad. Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Thanks Gloria. It's encouraging that you reckon it's very unlikely they'll stay transverse. My friend is currently 36 weeks with same kind of twins, hers have been both head down for ages, now the higher one is transverse. I gather if at least the lower one gets her head lined up nicely the other one could do anything even after the first one is born (if they give her a chance). If they were still transverse at 38 weeks I suppose there's no chance of them moving around at that stage? My lower baby currently has her head closer to the cervix than her bum, so I suppose it could be ok. They're growing really fast now. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone worried about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby is clearly a breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good time to get going on encouraging a turn around. The thing that's different with twins is that you're not going to do a version for breech anyway. Remember that your lovely uterus is ovoid in shape. As these babies get bigger, the shape of the uterus will press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic or breech but not transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature take it's course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do. It would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd positions past 36 weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth process will press the head or bum towards the bony pelvis. I'm excited to hear the news of their arrival. Best regards, Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi, I've posted here before about my twins pregnancy. I'm now 34 weeks pregnant, and the babies are top to tail transverse, have been this way for about a month now. I'm starting to get worried about their presentation the hospital has booked me in for C-section
Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation - DVD
Hi Gloria, I agree that this DVD (Psalm and Zoya) is amazing - I have just come back from the ICM where we were showing it on our trade stand. We had a lot of positive comment and surprised reactions - many midwives are not seeing vaginal twin births at all these days and to think that a woman could do this by herself is astounding to some! It can be purchased through Birth International - here is the link. Well worth a look http://www.acegraphics.com.au/product/video/dvd121.html Regards, Andrea At 11:09 AM 29/07/2005, you wrote: I've been told that once the first twin is birthed, the second attendant should stand behind the mother and press attendants' hands firmly against the sides of the uterus from the back to encourage the second one to be a longitudinal lies. Has anyone on this list done this? I have virtually no experience with twins. There is an absolutely beautiful DVD of twins born unassisted at home that has come onto the market here in N. A. It is the birth of full term 7 lb babies and the mother is so cool. When she realizes the 2nd one is coming footling breech, she say Oh shit, it's a foot. Her husband, who is holding the first born twin and the 2 y.o. as well as videotaping, says What do you want me to do? She replies Keep videotaping! The film is a real gift in a world gone mad. Gloria - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Lindsay Yvette To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Thanks Gloria. It's encouraging that you reckon it's very unlikely they'll stay transverse. My friend is currently 36 weeks with same kind of twins, hers have been both head down for ages, now the higher one is transverse. I gather if at least the lower one gets her head lined up nicely the other one could do anything even after the first one is born (if they give her a chance). If they were still transverse at 38 weeks I suppose there's no chance of them moving around at that stage? My lower baby currently has her head closer to the cervix than her bum, so I suppose it could be ok. They're growing really fast now. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Gloria Lemay To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone worried about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby is clearly a breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good time to get going on encouraging a turn around. The thing that's different with twins is that you're not going to do a version for breech anyway. Remember that your lovely uterus is ovoid in shape. As these babies get bigger, the shape of the uterus will press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic or breech but not transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature take it's course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do. It would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd positions past 36 weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth process will press the head or bum towards the bony pelvis. I'm excited to hear the news of their arrival. Best regards, Gloria - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Lindsay Yvette To: mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi, I've posted here before about my twins pregnancy. I'm now 34 weeks pregnant, and the babies are top to tail transverse, have been this way for about a month now. I'm starting to get worried about their presentation the hospital has booked me in for C-section at 38 weeks in case they stay transverse. I'm trying to spend time on hands and knees, and sit on a birth ball, and I'm seeing the hospital physio about a brace on Monday for SPD, which I've read might help (I'm having lots of ligament pain). Any suggestions or comments about encouraging twins into a good presentation? The babies are now 2315g 2972g (5lb 2 6lb 9). The smaller baby was always head down at the bottom, but they've switched now the heavier one is lower. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
Thank you for that info
- Original Message -
From:
Gloria Lemay
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:51
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging
twins into a good presentation.
Here's her website, it has lots of stills of the
births but the DVD is just so special. Highly recommended.
http://www.earthbirthproductions.com/index_files/Page864.htm
- Original Message -
From:
brendamanning
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:30
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging
twins into a good presentation.
Gloria,
Would you be happy to share the name where
that DVD can be found.? It could be inspirational for some women ( and OBs)
here ?
Thanks
Brenda M
- Original Message -
From:
Gloria
Lemay
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:09
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]
Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
I've been told that once the first twin is
birthed, the second attendant should stand behind the mother and press
attendants' hands firmly against the sides of the uterus from the
backto encourage the second one to be a longitudinal lies. Has
anyone on this list done this? I have virtually no experience with
twins.
There is an absolutely beautiful DVD of twins
born unassisted at home that has come onto the market here in N. A.
It is the birth of full term 7 lb babies and the mother is so cool.
When she realizes the 2nd one is coming footling breech, she say "Oh shit,
it's a foot". Her husband, who is holding the first born twin and
the 2 y.o. as well as videotaping, says "What do you want me to do?"
She replies "Keep videotaping!" The film is a real gift in a world
gone mad.
Gloria
- Original Message -
From:
Lindsay Yvette
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:57
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]
Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
Thanks Gloria. It's encouraging that you reckon it's very
unlikely they'll stay transverse. My friend is currently 36 weeks
with same kind of twins, hers have been both head down for ages,
now the higher one is transverse. I gather if at least the
lower one gets her head lined up nicely the other one could do anything
even after the first one is born (if they give her a chance).
If they were still transverse at 38 weeks I suppose there's no
chance of them moving around at that stage?
My lower baby currently has her head closer to the cervix than her
bum, so I suppose it could be ok. They're growing really fast
now.
Yvette
39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births)
pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls.
Melbourne Australia
- Original Message -
From:
Gloria
Lemay
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005
10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]
Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone
worried about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby
is clearly a breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good
time to get going on encouraging a turn around. The thing that's
different with twins is that you're not going to do a version for
breech anyway. Remember that your lovely uterus is ovoid in
shape. As these babies get bigger, the shape of the uterus will
press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic or breech but not
transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature take it's
course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these
babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do.
It would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd
positions past 36 weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth
process will press the head or bum towards the bony
pelvis.
I'm excited to hear the news of their
arrival. Best regards, Gloria
- Original Message -
From:
Lindsay Yvette
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005
3:47 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery]
Encouraging twins into a good presentatio
Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
The risk of cord prolapse is increased with a presenting part that is NOT cephalic, however, there is a great deal of adrenalin production obstetrics which I am dubious about. Nature does have another protection in the event of cord prolapse called Wharton's jelly in the cord. When we try to ligate the vessels after birth by tying cord tape or dental floss around it, we have to really put our whole body weight and strength into getting it tight enough to stop blood flow through those vessels EVEN WHEN THE PULSE HAS STOPPED in the cord for many minutes. So, although no one wants to have a cord prolapse, and, of course, smart, prompt action should be taken, I have come to suspect pronouncements by obstetricians about what would have happened if had not occurred. The greatest danger in cord prolapse, in my view, is during second stage with a primip having the cord pinched between the bony pelvis and the bony head. Another extreme danger might be the pack a day (Or more) smoking mom who has a skinny umbilical cord and already compromised baby. I think that a big part of midwifery is educating each other and pregnant women to look more objectively at the drama that surrounds complications in birth and ask ourselves is the mythology actually true. Thanks for posting that story, Jo, because it's definately not right to just quote wonderful stories where everything turned out perfectly by just sitting on hands. My question that I always come down to with modern obstetrics is How many are killed or injured by the fear who would have lived if they had gone out and squatted in the woods somewhere? It's a juggling act, for sure. There have been so many second twins that die or are injured in medical care and somehow those stories are buried. I think this is one of the reasons that more families in N. America are saying The hell with it, we'll take our chances with Mother Nature and accept responsibility for the consequences. Gloria Lemay Quoting Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED]: - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Thanks Jo, that's really good to know just in case that happened to me. I'll mention possible cord prolapse to the midwife Ob when I see them next. Gloria I've seen that website, seen the stills read the birth story though not bought the DVD. I've seen another DVD of a planned twins homebirth in Melbourne of boy/girl twins, where the second baby was breech, and it's truly inspiring. The babies were born into water both so alert, calm healthy looking. The website for that one is http://www.womenofspirit.asn.au/welcome.html My website for this pregnancy is http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/t/twingirlslb/ where I've been keeping a journal. Yvette - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi Yvette, I hate hate hate conveying less good outcomes on a list like ozmid (or at all for that matter) so I nearly didn't send this. A friend of mine who had two previous text book natural births was pregnant with identical twins in separate sacks for her third pregnancy, she fought very hard to organise at least the opportunity to birth in her hospitals birth center - if she made it to term then she was to birth in the birth center and she alternated her appts with the birth center midwives and her assigned OB (who was the head of obstetrics). At her 34 week appt her OB started saying that he thought she would definitely need a ceaser because of her twins position (transverse and facing each other) but they would wait one more week to be sure. 2 days later her waters broke with full cord prolapse at home. With a combination of instinct and what she had learned at our EXCELLENT yoga classes she shoved the cord back in and got in the knees chest position (butt in the air head on the ! ground). When the ambos came (they were there within 10 mins) they tried to force her to lie down on the trolley thing for the trip to hospital and her husband had a screaming argument with them on the street to the effect that lying on her back would kill the babies and she was NOT under any circumstances going to lie down so they could either take her in the knee chest position or he would drive her in that position in their own car. The ambos gave in. She had a ceaser under general literally 3-4 mins after arrival in the hospital (the closest to her, not her hospital of choice) and both boys were ok but the OB that did the ceaser told her that she saved her babies lives by refusing to lie down
Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
Gloria, I too wonder about the hysteria about cord prolapse etc and once they knew that the twins were so locked together that they weren't moving anywhere you have to wonder how serious the cord prolapse was going to get. However the ambos didn't know that nothing was pressing on the cervix and lying down for them really could have had tragic results. I think the transverse one was lower, blocking the path of the second cephalic twin and they were wrapped around each other preventing either from moving. Also the twin whose waters broke was fine at birth but the second twin was not ready to be born and had (to a NICU) minor breathing problems for a week or so. They both breastfed ok but the one that broke his waters did better, this was despite the hospitals very helpful advice that the were too young to feed. Finally (furthering Gloria's point about the hysteria around cord prolapse) when the babes arrived in NICU no one was expecting them. When they were told whose babies the the reply was But her babies died in utero en route. Nice. Gloria I absolutely agree it's a juggling act, I was planning a homebirth for my second and then turned out to be infertile. I now find myself as worried about moving too far from a level three hospital as I am about actually going to one. We have moved on to IVF now, so the risk of twins just dropped dramatically, which is a comfort. cheers Jo At 10:44 AM -0700 29/7/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The risk of cord prolapse is increased with a presenting part that is NOT cephalic, however, there is a great deal of adrenalin production obstetrics which I am dubious about. Nature does have another protection in the event of cord prolapse called Wharton's jelly in the cord. When we try to ligate the vessels after birth by tying cord tape or dental floss around it, we have to really put our whole body weight and strength into getting it tight enough to stop blood flow through those vessels EVEN WHEN THE PULSE HAS STOPPED in the cord for many minutes. So, although no one wants to have a cord prolapse, and, of course, smart, prompt action should be taken, I have come to suspect pronouncements by obstetricians about what would have happened if had not occurred. The greatest danger in cord prolapse, in my view, is during second stage with a primip having the cord pinched between the bony pelvis and the bony head. Another extreme danger might be the pack a day (Or more) smoking mom who has a skinny umbilical cord and already compromised baby. I think that a big part of midwifery is educating each other and pregnant women to look more objectively at the drama that surrounds complications in birth and ask ourselves is the mythology actually true. Thanks for posting that story, Jo, because it's definately not right to just quote wonderful stories where everything turned out perfectly by just sitting on hands. My question that I always come down to with modern obstetrics is How many are killed or injured by the fear who would have lived if they had gone out and squatted in the woods somewhere? It's a juggling act, for sure. There have been so many second twins that die or are injured in medical care and somehow those stories are buried. I think this is one of the reasons that more families in N. America are saying The hell with it, we'll take our chances with Mother Nature and accept responsibility for the consequences. Gloria Lemay Quoting Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED]: - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Thanks Jo, that's really good to know just in case that happened to me. I'll mention possible cord prolapse to the midwife Ob when I see them next. Gloria I've seen that website, seen the stills read the birth story though not bought the DVD. I've seen another DVD of a planned twins homebirth in Melbourne of boy/girl twins, where the second baby was breech, and it's truly inspiring. The babies were born into water both so alert, calm healthy looking. The website for that one is http://www.womenofspirit.asn.au/welcome.html My website for this pregnancy is http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/t/twingirlslb/ where I've been keeping a journal. Yvette - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi Yvette, I hate hate hate conveying less good outcomes on a list like ozmid (or at all for that matter) so I nearly didn't send this. A friend of mine who had two previous text book natural births was pregnant with identical twins in separate sacks for her third pregnancy, she fought very hard to organise at least the opportunity to birth
Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
Well said Gloria, very well said ! Brenda - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 3:44 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. The risk of cord prolapse is increased with a presenting part that is NOT cephalic, however, there is a great deal of adrenalin production obstetrics which I am dubious about. Nature does have another protection in the event of cord prolapse called Wharton's jelly in the cord. When we try to ligate the vessels after birth by tying cord tape or dental floss around it, we have to really put our whole body weight and strength into getting it tight enough to stop blood flow through those vessels EVEN WHEN THE PULSE HAS STOPPED in the cord for many minutes. So, although no one wants to have a cord prolapse, and, of course, smart, prompt action should be taken, I have come to suspect pronouncements by obstetricians about what would have happened if had not occurred. The greatest danger in cord prolapse, in my view, is during second stage with a primip having the cord pinched between the bony pelvis and the bony head. Another extreme danger might be the pack a day (Or more) smoking mom who has a skinny umbilical cord and already compromised baby. I think that a big part of midwifery is educating each other and pregnant women to look more objectively at the drama that surrounds complications in birth and ask ourselves is the mythology actually true. Thanks for posting that story, Jo, because it's definately not right to just quote wonderful stories where everything turned out perfectly by just sitting on hands. My question that I always come down to with modern obstetrics is How many are killed or injured by the fear who would have lived if they had gone out and squatted in the woods somewhere? It's a juggling act, for sure. There have been so many second twins that die or are injured in medical care and somehow those stories are buried. I think this is one of the reasons that more families in N. America are saying The hell with it, we'll take our chances with Mother Nature and accept responsibility for the consequences. Gloria Lemay Quoting Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED]: - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Thanks Jo, that's really good to know just in case that happened to me. I'll mention possible cord prolapse to the midwife Ob when I see them next. Gloria I've seen that website, seen the stills read the birth story though not bought the DVD. I've seen another DVD of a planned twins homebirth in Melbourne of boy/girl twins, where the second baby was breech, and it's truly inspiring. The babies were born into water both so alert, calm healthy looking. The website for that one is http://www.womenofspirit.asn.au/welcome.html My website for this pregnancy is http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/t/twingirlslb/ where I've been keeping a journal. Yvette - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi Yvette, I hate hate hate conveying less good outcomes on a list like ozmid (or at all for that matter) so I nearly didn't send this. A friend of mine who had two previous text book natural births was pregnant with identical twins in separate sacks for her third pregnancy, she fought very hard to organise at least the opportunity to birth in her hospitals birth center - if she made it to term then she was to birth in the birth center and she alternated her appts with the birth center midwives and her assigned OB (who was the head of obstetrics). At her 34 week appt her OB started saying that he thought she would definitely need a ceaser because of her twins position (transverse and facing each other) but they would wait one more week to be sure. 2 days later her waters broke with full cord prolapse at home. With a combination of instinct and what she had learned at our EXCELLENT yoga classes she shoved the cord back in and got in the knees chest position (butt in the air head on the ! ground). When the ambos came (they were there within 10 mins) they tried to force her to lie down on the trolley thing for the trip to hospital and her husband had a screaming argument with them on the street to the effect that lying on her back would kill the babies and she was NOT under any circumstances going to lie down so they could either take her in the knee chest position or he would drive her in that position in their own car. The ambos gave in. She had a ceaser under general literally 3-4 mins after
Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
hi there i did quite a bit of research last year on ECV and i was under the impression the optimal time to attempt ECV is actually 37 weeks. at 34 weeks you actually have a higher inital success rate but also a much higher rate of reversion so you may end up just having to do it again. and even though the risks are actually very low, its best for everyone involved to only do it once! also the success rate is better when tocolysis is used but obviously this introduces other risk factors so when i weighed up all the evidence i decided its best to try without any then try with tocolysis if mum wants to try again (this is all assuming she doesnt want to just go for a breech vaginal straight up and that she does want to try turning bub - personal decision obviously) love emily --- Gloria Lemay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone worried about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby is clearly a breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good time to get going on encouraging a turn around. The thing that's different with twins is that you're not going to do a version for breech anyway. Remember that your lovely uterus is ovoid in shape. As these babies get bigger, the shape of the uterus will press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic or breech but not transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature take it's course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do. It would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd positions past 36 weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth process will press the head or bum towards the bony pelvis. I'm excited to hear the news of their arrival. Best regards, Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi, I've posted here before about my twins pregnancy. I'm now 34 weeks pregnant, and the babies are top to tail transverse, have been this way for about a month now. I'm starting to get worried about their presentation the hospital has booked me in for C-section at 38 weeks in case they stay transverse. I'm trying to spend time on hands and knees, and sit on a birth ball, and I'm seeing the hospital physio about a brace on Monday for SPD, which I've read might help (I'm having lots of ligament pain). Any suggestions or comments about encouraging twins into a good presentation? The babies are now 2315g 2972g (5lb 2 6lb 9). The smaller baby was always head down at the bottom, but they've switched now the heavier one is lower. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
Thanks Gloria. It's encouraging that you reckon it's very unlikely they'll stay transverse. My friend is currently 36 weeks with same kind of twins, hers have been both head down for ages, now the higher one is transverse. I gather if at least the lower one gets her head lined up nicely the other one could do anything even after the first one is born (if they give her a chance). If they were still transverse at 38 weeks I suppose there's no chance of them moving around at that stage? My lower baby currently has her head closer to the cervix than her bum, so I suppose it could be ok. They're growing really fast now. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone worried about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby is clearly a breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good time to get going on encouraging a turn around. The thing that's different with twins is that you're not going to do a version for breech anyway. Remember that your lovely uterus is ovoid in shape. As these babies get bigger, the shape of the uterus will press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic or breech but not transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature take it's course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do. It would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd positions past 36 weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth process will press the head or bum towards the bony pelvis. I'm excited to hear the news of their arrival. Best regards, Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi, I've posted here before about my twins pregnancy. I'm now 34 weeks pregnant, and the babies are top to tail transverse, have been this way for about a month now. I'm starting to get worried about their presentation the hospital has booked me in for C-section at 38 weeks in case they stay transverse. I'm trying to spend time on hands and knees, and sit on a birth ball, and I'm seeing the hospital physio about a brace on Monday for SPD, which I've read might help (I'm having lots of ligament pain). Anysuggestions or comments about encouraging twins into a good presentation? The babies are now 2315g 2972g (5lb 2 6lb 9). The smaller baby was always head down at the bottom, but they've switched now the heavier one is lower. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia
Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
I've been told that once the first twin is birthed, the second attendant should stand behind the mother and press attendants' hands firmly against the sides of the uterus from the backto encourage the second one to be a longitudinal lies. Has anyone on this list done this? I have virtually no experience with twins. There is an absolutely beautiful DVD of twins born unassisted at home that has come onto the market here in N. A. It is the birth of full term 7 lb babies and the mother is so cool. When she realizes the 2nd one is coming footling breech, she say "Oh shit, it's a foot". Her husband, who is holding the first born twin and the 2 y.o. as well as videotaping, says "What do you want me to do?" She replies "Keep videotaping!" The film is a real gift in a world gone mad. Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Thanks Gloria. It's encouraging that you reckon it's very unlikely they'll stay transverse. My friend is currently 36 weeks with same kind of twins, hers have been both head down for ages, now the higher one is transverse. I gather if at least the lower one gets her head lined up nicely the other one could do anything even after the first one is born (if they give her a chance). If they were still transverse at 38 weeks I suppose there's no chance of them moving around at that stage? My lower baby currently has her head closer to the cervix than her bum, so I suppose it could be ok. They're growing really fast now. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone worried about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby is clearly a breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good time to get going on encouraging a turn around. The thing that's different with twins is that you're not going to do a version for breech anyway. Remember that your lovely uterus is ovoid in shape. As these babies get bigger, the shape of the uterus will press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic or breech but not transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature take it's course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do. It would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd positions past 36 weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth process will press the head or bum towards the bony pelvis. I'm excited to hear the news of their arrival. Best regards, Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi, I've posted here before about my twins pregnancy. I'm now 34 weeks pregnant, and the babies are top to tail transverse, have been this way for about a month now. I'm starting to get worried about their presentation the hospital has booked me in for C-section at 38 weeks in case they stay transverse. I'm trying to spend time on hands and knees, and sit on a birth ball, and I'm seeing the hospital physio about a brace on Monday for SPD, which I've read might help (I'm having lots of ligament pain). Anysuggestions or comments about encouraging twins into a good presentation? The babies are now 2315g 2972g (5lb 2 6lb 9). The smaller baby was always head down at the bottom, but they've switched now the heavier one is lower. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia
Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
Gloria, Would you be happy to share the name where that DVD can be found.? It could be inspirational for some women ( and OBs) here ? Thanks Brenda M - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. I've been told that once the first twin is birthed, the second attendant should stand behind the mother and press attendants' hands firmly against the sides of the uterus from the backto encourage the second one to be a longitudinal lies. Has anyone on this list done this? I have virtually no experience with twins. There is an absolutely beautiful DVD of twins born unassisted at home that has come onto the market here in N. A. It is the birth of full term 7 lb babies and the mother is so cool. When she realizes the 2nd one is coming footling breech, she say "Oh shit, it's a foot". Her husband, who is holding the first born twin and the 2 y.o. as well as videotaping, says "What do you want me to do?" She replies "Keep videotaping!" The film is a real gift in a world gone mad. Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Thanks Gloria. It's encouraging that you reckon it's very unlikely they'll stay transverse. My friend is currently 36 weeks with same kind of twins, hers have been both head down for ages, now the higher one is transverse. I gather if at least the lower one gets her head lined up nicely the other one could do anything even after the first one is born (if they give her a chance). If they were still transverse at 38 weeks I suppose there's no chance of them moving around at that stage? My lower baby currently has her head closer to the cervix than her bum, so I suppose it could be ok. They're growing really fast now. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone worried about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby is clearly a breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good time to get going on encouraging a turn around. The thing that's different with twins is that you're not going to do a version for breech anyway. Remember that your lovely uterus is ovoid in shape. As these babies get bigger, the shape of the uterus will press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic or breech but not transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature take it's course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do. It would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd positions past 36 weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth process will press the head or bum towards the bony pelvis. I'm excited to hear the news of their arrival. Best regards, Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi, I've posted here before about my twins pregnancy. I'm now 34 weeks pregnant, and the babies are top to tail transverse, have been this way for about a month now. I'm starting to get worried about their presentation the hospital has booked me in for C-section at 38 weeks in case they stay transverse. I'm trying to spend time on hands and knees, and sit on a birth ball, and I'm seeing the hospital physio about a brace on Monday for SPD, which I've read might help (I'm having lots of ligament pain). Anysuggestions or comments about encouraging twins into a good presentation? The babies are now 2315g 2972g (5lb 2 6lb 9). The smaller baby was always head down at the bottom, but they've switched now the heavier one is lower. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia
Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
Here's her website, it has lots of stills of the births but the DVD is just so special. Highly recommended. http://www.earthbirthproductions.com/index_files/Page864.htm - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Gloria, Would you be happy to share the name where that DVD can be found.? It could be inspirational for some women ( and OBs) here ? Thanks Brenda M - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. I've been told that once the first twin is birthed, the second attendant should stand behind the mother and press attendants' hands firmly against the sides of the uterus from the backto encourage the second one to be a longitudinal lies. Has anyone on this list done this? I have virtually no experience with twins. There is an absolutely beautiful DVD of twins born unassisted at home that has come onto the market here in N. A. It is the birth of full term 7 lb babies and the mother is so cool. When she realizes the 2nd one is coming footling breech, she say "Oh shit, it's a foot". Her husband, who is holding the first born twin and the 2 y.o. as well as videotaping, says "What do you want me to do?" She replies "Keep videotaping!" The film is a real gift in a world gone mad. Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Thanks Gloria. It's encouraging that you reckon it's very unlikely they'll stay transverse. My friend is currently 36 weeks with same kind of twins, hers have been both head down for ages, now the higher one is transverse. I gather if at least the lower one gets her head lined up nicely the other one could do anything even after the first one is born (if they give her a chance). If they were still transverse at 38 weeks I suppose there's no chance of them moving around at that stage? My lower baby currently has her head closer to the cervix than her bum, so I suppose it could be ok. They're growing really fast now. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone worried about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby is clearly a breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good time to get going on encouraging a turn around. The thing that's different with twins is that you're not going to do a version for breech anyway. Remember that your lovely uterus is ovoid in shape. As these babies get bigger, the shape of the uterus will press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic or breech but not transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature take it's course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do. It would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd positions past 36 weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth process will press the head or bum towards the bony pelvis. I'm excited to hear the news of their arrival. Best regards, Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi, I've posted here before about my twins pregnancy. I'm now 34 weeks pregnant, and the babies are top to tail transverse, have been this way for about a month now. I'm starting to get worried about their presentation the hospital has booked me in for C-section at 38 weeks in case they stay transverse. I'm trying to spend time on hands and knees, and sit on a birth ball, and I'm seeing the
Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
This is also advertised in the recent Ace Graphics book. I read the advert and would love to see it. Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Here's her website, it has lots of stills of the births but the DVD is just so special. Highly recommended. http://www.earthbirthproductions.com/index_files/Page864.htm - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Gloria, Would you be happy to share the name where that DVD can be found.? It could be inspirational for some women ( and OBs) here ? Thanks Brenda M - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. I've been told that once the first twin is birthed, the second attendant should stand behind the mother and press attendants' hands firmly against the sides of the uterus from the backto encourage the second one to be a longitudinal lies. Has anyone on this list done this? I have virtually no experience with twins. There is an absolutely beautiful DVD of twins born unassisted at home that has come onto the market here in N. A. It is the birth of full term 7 lb babies and the mother is so cool. When she realizes the 2nd one is coming footling breech, she say "Oh shit, it's a foot". Her husband, who is holding the first born twin and the 2 y.o. as well as videotaping, says "What do you want me to do?" She replies "Keep videotaping!" The film is a real gift in a world gone mad. Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Thanks Gloria. It's encouraging that you reckon it's very unlikely they'll stay transverse. My friend is currently 36 weeks with same kind of twins, hers have been both head down for ages, now the higher one is transverse. I gather if at least the lower one gets her head lined up nicely the other one could do anything even after the first one is born (if they give her a chance). If they were still transverse at 38 weeks I suppose there's no chance of them moving around at that stage? My lower baby currently has her head closer to the cervix than her bum, so I suppose it could be ok. They're growing really fast now. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone worried about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby is clearly a breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good time to get going on encouraging a turn around. The thing that's different with twins is that you're not going to do a version for breech anyway. Remember that your lovely uterus is ovoid in shape. As these babies get bigger, the shape of the uterus will press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic or breech but not transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature take it's course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do. It would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd positions past 36 weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth process will press the head or bum towards the bony pelvis. I'm excited to hear the news of their arrival. Best regards, Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette
Fw: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
- Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Thanks Jo, that's really good to know just in case that happened to me. I'll mention possible cord prolapse to the midwife Ob when I see them next. Gloria I've seen that website, seen the stills read the birth story though not bought the DVD. I've seen another DVD of a planned twins homebirth in Melbourne of boy/girl twins, where the second baby was breech, and it's truly inspiring. The babies were born into water both so alert, calm healthy looking. The website for that one is http://www.womenofspirit.asn.au/welcome.html My website for this pregnancy is http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/t/twingirlslb/ where I've been keeping a journal. Yvette - Original Message - From: Jo Bourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi Yvette, I hate hate hate conveying less good outcomes on a list like ozmid (or at all for that matter) so I nearly didn't send this. A friend of mine who had two previous text book natural births was pregnant with identical twins in separate sacks for her third pregnancy, she fought very hard to organise at least the opportunity to birth in her hospitals birth center - if she made it to term then she was to birth in the birth center and she alternated her appts with the birth center midwives and her assigned OB (who was the head of obstetrics). At her 34 week appt her OB started saying that he thought she would definitely need a ceaser because of her twins position (transverse and facing each other) but they would wait one more week to be sure. 2 days later her waters broke with full cord prolapse at home. With a combination of instinct and what she had learned at our EXCELLENT yoga classes she shoved the cord back in and got in the knees chest position (butt in the air head on the ! ground). When the ambos came (they were there within 10 mins) they tried to force her to lie down on the trolley thing for the trip to hospital and her husband had a screaming argument with them on the street to the effect that lying on her back would kill the babies and she was NOT under any circumstances going to lie down so they could either take her in the knee chest position or he would drive her in that position in their own car. The ambos gave in. She had a ceaser under general literally 3-4 mins after arrival in the hospital (the closest to her, not her hospital of choice) and both boys were ok but the OB that did the ceaser told her that she saved her babies lives by refusing to lie down for the ambos... So good outcome in the end but very scary and not the birth she had hoped for. Also once her waters broke and contractions started the contractions locked the babies together in their transverse positions and neither baby could move down, she could not have birthed vaginall! y so the transverse position caused prolapse and prevented her babies from moving down, it was all round a bad thing for her. I have been reading your story with interest and cannot tell you how much I hope that your babies turn and you get the birth you want. I guess I just wanted to be sure you were aware of the cord prolapse risk if your waters break while both twins are transverse. The knee chest position will slow labour down if anything can and takes as much pressure off the cervix as possible so it is a good thing to know in a precipitous labour that you need to slow down. Take care! Jo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
Hi, I've posted here before about my twins pregnancy. I'm now 34 weeks pregnant, and the babies are top to tail transverse, have been this way for about a month now. I'm starting to get worried about their presentation the hospital has booked me in for C-section at 38 weeks in case they stay transverse. I'm trying to spend time on hands and knees, and sit on a birth ball, and I'm seeing the hospital physio about a brace on Monday for SPD, which I've read might help (I'm having lots of ligament pain). Anysuggestions or comments about encouraging twins into a good presentation? The babies are now 2315g 2972g (5lb 2 6lb 9). The smaller baby was always head down at the bottom, but they've switched now the heavier one is lower. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia
Re: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation.
Hi Yvette, I hate to see someone worried about position at 34 weeks. Certainly if the baby is clearly a breech presentation in a singleton, 34 weeks is a good time to get going on encouraging a turn around. The thing that's different with twins is that you're not going to do a version for breech anyway. Remember that your lovely uterus is ovoid in shape. As these babies get bigger, the shape of the uterus will press them into a longitudinal lie, either cephalic or breech but not transverse. It's simply a matter of letting nature take it's course. Be patient, acknowledge yourself for carrying these babies past 32 weeks and let them do what they're going to do. It would be extremely unusual if they persist in being in odd positions past 36 weeks. Even the tightenings of the birth process will press the head or bum towards the bony pelvis. I'm excited to hear the news of their arrival. Best regards, Gloria - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Encouraging twins into a good presentation. Hi, I've posted here before about my twins pregnancy. I'm now 34 weeks pregnant, and the babies are top to tail transverse, have been this way for about a month now. I'm starting to get worried about their presentation the hospital has booked me in for C-section at 38 weeks in case they stay transverse. I'm trying to spend time on hands and knees, and sit on a birth ball, and I'm seeing the hospital physio about a brace on Monday for SPD, which I've read might help (I'm having lots of ligament pain). Anysuggestions or comments about encouraging twins into a good presentation? The babies are now 2315g 2972g (5lb 2 6lb 9). The smaller baby was always head down at the bottom, but they've switched now the heavier one is lower. Yvette 39 yo mother of 3 (all normal births) pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls. Melbourne Australia
Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
Hi again Yvette and others, These babies weren't identical at all, although by ultrasound they were monochorionic diamniotic twins. My twins book says all monochorionic are identical so I am confused. My guidelines for twins at home have always been first baby head down, of even size and 37 weeks plus. This is the fourth set I have had prime care of - all have arrived head/head, after 37 weeks and pretty even in size. I am sure that setting clear guidelines to all involved makes a huge difference. Perhaps I sure try a time guideline as well!! This mum had an early u/sound, then chose to have another at 35 weeks to check for above criteria. (Totally her choice tho as I was quite clear of their position). The placenta, as attached, was very round - not obviously fused, but had a very thick fusion of membranes running down the centre. The cords were very different in size and length, and the placenta on baby#1 side was thick, and on baby#2 was thin and different coloured. I can't answer the question about the cervix - I only checked once and that was purely to stop my hair going greyer whilst I worried about position - I really didn't want a shoulder presentation... The assessment I did was about 5 hours after baby #1 and the cervix was nearly fully dilated. I guess I felt it was probably always at about that dilation. The contractions really didn't stop completely at any time, just weren't so strong for many hours, and definitely picked up in intensity whilst and after breastfeeding. The books say the intensity changes with the stretching and pressure of the presenting part coming into the vagina, so although she didn't exhibit transitional symptoms for all those hours, I think her cervix probably didn't alter much, but others may know more... As far as sharing the placenta goes, watching the mother's uterus reform around the second baby and placenta was pretty amazing and very obvious. It no doubt helped her uterine muscles to contract to the right size for the remaining one baby and large placenta. After baby # 2 was born, it then had less effort to contract again to expel the placenta whihc it did very efficiently, with minimal blood loss. I can imagine a very different scenario if baby # 2 was either forced through by oxytocin if her labour wasn't considered effective enough, or membranes broken and baby extracted by the end of the first hour ( or have we heard a much lesser time allowed between first and second babies?). This management would surely predispose a big bleed considering the enormous effort the uterus would have to make to contract quickly down around the now empty uterus always much to learn with every birth. Justine, you're amazing!! We'll look forward to your amazing story unfolding over the months. Just remember to really rest up and eat and drink well. Optimum health is a must for twins. Yvette, birth is a truly amazing journey each time. Birthing two can be a simple as one if you believe, prepare and have a solid team around you. Good luck and you are welcome to email me privately. I have attempted to post some pictures of the twins and their placenta, but it isn't working. I'll get my son onto it! Sue
RE: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
As I sit here with tears streaming, I just cant help but reply and thank you so much Sue for sharing this wonderful positive twin birth. I have in my 4 short years as a midwife, been involved with two women with twin pregnancies, and although both of them were fit, healthy, had great sized babies in good positions, were positive about birth, etc, the list goes on, unfortunately the outcomes for them were quite devastating, both with problems with twin#2. I have tried since then to remain positive and open minded about the possibility of twins being born vaginally, well and healthy, but my confidence in them being born at home has been completely shattered by these unfortunate experiences, by which Ive been deeply saddened. My colleague and I are now caring for a woman we have birthed with before who has twins this time, and I know that deep down in her heart she wants to birth at home, but neither of us can quite get the fear of our previous experiences out of the way in helping her to make the right decision for her. Your account of this birth has reinvigorated my quest to regain that faith and trust in birth. Thank you for that. Tania x From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Sue Cookson Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2005 5:55 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins Hi again Yvette and others, These babies weren't identical at all, although by ultrasound they were monochorionic diamniotic twins. My twins book says all monochorionic are identical so I am confused. My guidelines for twins at home have always been first baby head down, of even size and 37 weeks plus. This is the fourth set I have had prime care of - all have arrived head/head, after 37 weeks and pretty even in size. I am sure that setting clear guidelines to all involved makes a huge difference. Perhaps I sure try a time guideline as well!! This mum had an early u/sound, then chose to have another at 35 weeks to check for above criteria. (Totally her choice tho as I was quite clear of their position). The placenta, as attached, was very round - not obviously fused, but had a very thick fusion of membranes running down the centre. The cords were very different in size and length, and the placenta on baby#1 side was thick, and on baby#2 was thin and different coloured. I can't answer the question about the cervix - I only checked once and that was purely to stop my hair going greyer whilst I worried about position - I really didn't want a shoulder presentation... The assessment I did was about 5 hours after baby #1 and the cervix was nearly fully dilated. I guess I felt it was probably always at about that dilation. The contractions really didn't stop completely at any time, just weren't so strong for many hours, and definitely picked up in intensity whilst and after breastfeeding. The books say the intensity changes with the stretching and pressure of the presenting part coming into the vagina, so although she didn't exhibit transitional symptoms for all those hours, I think her cervix probably didn't alter much, but others may know more... As far as sharing the placenta goes, watching the mother's uterus reform around the second baby and placenta was pretty amazing and very obvious. It no doubt helped her uterine muscles to contract to the right size for the remaining one baby and large placenta. After baby # 2 was born, it then had less effort to contract again to expel the placenta whihc it did very efficiently, with minimal blood loss. I can imagine a very different scenario if baby # 2 was either forced through by oxytocin if her labour wasn't considered effective enough, or membranes broken and baby extracted by the end of the first hour ( or have we heard a much lesser time allowed between first and second babies?). This management would surely predispose a big bleed considering the enormous effort the uterus would have to make to contract quickly down around the now empty uterus always much to learn with every birth. Justine, you're amazing!! We'll look forward to your amazing story unfolding over the months. Just remember to really rest up and eat and drink well. Optimum health is a must for twins. Yvette, birth is a truly amazing journey each time. Birthing two can be a simple as one if you believe, prepare and have a solid team around you. Good luck and you are welcome to email me privately. I have attempted to post some pictures of the twins and their placenta, but it isn't working. I'll get my son onto it! Sue
RE: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
The last twin birth that I had the misfortune to be involved with was a few years ago. I had caught the first babe and the woman had been talked into all the interventions that you all know about. Then the OB (fairly obviously playing up to the crowd!) did an ARM with the second twin nowhere near the cx, could not bring a pole down, CTC plummeted and we had an emergency CS on our hands. Poor dad was left holding twin 1 as we raced away to OR. Baby was ok but I know in my heart that all that drama was not necessary. I tried to debrief them a little but the OB had 'saved' the baby. Cheers Judy --- Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: M limited observations of twins born in hospitals is that the drs try to manipulate the 2nd twin and cause problems in that way. I have only assisted at 3 sets of twins. one set born at home and two in low level hospitals. They were all born fine without manipulation by me, the drs outside the door of the labour room. Two at 38 weeks and one set at 401weeks. Leave them alone, they birth fine without intervention. MM From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tania Smallwood Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2005 5:58 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins As I sit here with tears streaming, I just can't help but reply and thank you so much Sue for sharing this wonderful positive twin birth. I have in my 4 short years as a midwife, been involved with two women with twin pregnancies, and although both of them were fit, healthy, had great sized babies in good positions, were positive about birth, etc, the list goes on, unfortunately the outcomes for them were quite devastating, both with problems with twin#2. I have tried since then to remain positive and open minded about the possibility of twins being born vaginally, well and healthy, but my confidence in them being born at home has been completely shattered by these unfortunate experiences, by which I've been deeply saddened. My colleague and I are now caring for a woman we have birthed with before who has twins this time, and I know that deep down in her heart she wants to birth at home, but neither of us can quite get the fear of our previous experiences out of the way in helping her to make the right decision for her. Your account of this birth has reinvigorated my quest to regain that faith and trust in birth. Thank you for that. Tania x _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sue Cookson Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2005 5:55 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins Hi again Yvette and others, These babies weren't identical at all, although by ultrasound they were monochorionic diamniotic twins. My twins book says all monochorionic are identical so I am confused. My guidelines for twins at home have always been first baby head down, of even size and 37 weeks plus. This is the fourth set I have had prime care of - all have arrived head/head, after 37 weeks and pretty even in size. I am sure that setting clear guidelines to all involved makes a huge difference. Perhaps I sure try a time guideline as well!! This mum had an early u/sound, then chose to have another at 35 weeks to check for above criteria. (Totally her choice tho as I was quite clear of their position). The placenta, as attached, was very round - not obviously fused, but had a very thick fusion of membranes running down the centre. The cords were very different in size and length, and the placenta on baby#1 side was thick, and on baby#2 was thin and different coloured. I can't answer the question about the cervix - I only checked once and that was purely to stop my hair going greyer whilst I worried about position - I really didn't want a shoulder presentation... The assessment I did was about 5 hours after baby #1 and the cervix was nearly fully dilated. I guess I felt it was probably always at about that dilation. The contractions really didn't stop completely at any time, just weren't so strong for many hours, and definitely picked up in intensity whilst and after breastfeeding. The books say the intensity changes with the stretching and pressure of the presenting part coming into the vagina, so although she didn't exhibit transitional symptoms for all those hours, I think her cervix probably didn't alter much, but others may know more... As far as sharing the placenta goes, watching the mother's uterus reform around the second baby and placenta was pretty amazing and very obvious. It no doubt helped her uterine muscles to contract to the right size for the remaining one baby and large placenta. After baby # 2 was born, it then had less effort to contract again to expel the placenta whihc it did very efficiently, with minimal blood loss. I can
Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins - Justine
Congrats on your twins Justine! How far along are you? How did you find out you were carrying twins? Regards Jayne - Original Message - From: Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OzMid List ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins Dear Sue and all What a story! Great work to you and the wonderful Mum I have recently found I am too carrying twins (babe 5 and 6!) Paul is off for a vasectomy shortly after!!! I have read quite a few stories. I refuse to read Hosp managed stories as they are so medicalised and will scare me witless. I have read so many good HB twin stories of babies born at term great sizes and healthy. I went to see a believing Ob (only because I have no faith in local GP's and my midwife is hours away!) and he said if you grow good size babies the risk to twins is the same as a singleton, so why not stay at home! Looking forward to another great twin homebirth story Nov/Early December! Justine -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
So happy for you Sue - what a wonderful start to the winter break. Can't wait to get up to Byron and hear more details. Lots of egg flips and parsley and pineapple smoothies for the new mother and a lots of hugs for you Love Jan Jan Robinson Independent Midwife Practitioner National Coordinator Australian Society of Independent Midwives 8 Robin Crescent South Hurstville NSW 2221 Phone/Fax: 02 9546 4350 e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> website: www.midwiferyeducation.com.au On 6 Jul, 2005, at 08:48, Sue Cookson wrote: Hi everyone, I thought to let you know about a lovely homebirth of twins on Monday 4th July. Two little boys, 6lb7oz and 5lb 12oz, born 10.5 hours apart. SRM 3.30 am and birth of baby #1 at 6.49am. Then a few hours where ctxs were fairly regular but not so strong unless baby#1 was breastfeeding. You could see the second baby positioning itself and the uterus working hard to pull down into shape for baby#2. I'd clamped the cord of baby#1 after 10 mins in case of bleedthrough, and clamped the other end as well so that the placenta retained its size until after baby#2 was born. After about 4 hours I asked to check baby #2 position. It was too hard to palpate so I did a VE and found head there, not well applied, but there. Cervix was 9 ish cms. So we waited, fetal heart always good and strong. Set up the pool and mother relaxed for an hour or so with ctxs beginning to pick up again. She decided to hop out and at 5.05 pm baby#2 emerged in his caul. She birthed the placenta unaided 35 minutes later. Blood loss 300ml. (Her Hb and ferritin levels were both low). It was a huge leap of faith, but there was nothing happening to raise any alarm bells. Both babies are really gorgeous, feeding well and very happy. I am once again humbled by the strength of women Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
Geez Justine, can you clone that OB and spread him around Australia? Judy --- Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Sue and all What a story! Great work to you and the wonderful Mum I have recently found I am too carrying twins (babe 5 and 6!) Paul is off for a vasectomy shortly after!!! I have read quite a few stories. I refuse to read Hosp managed stories as they are so medicalised and will scare me witless. I have read so many good HB twin stories of babies born at term great sizes and healthy. I went to see a believing Ob (only because I have no faith in local GP's and my midwife is hours away!) and he said if you grow good size babies the risk to twins is the same as a singleton, so why not stay at home! Looking forward to another great twin homebirth story Nov/Early December! Justine -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
Also meant to say Congratulations Justine. You will have your hands full. I wish you a smooth pregnancy and great births. Cheers Judy --- Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geez Justine, can you clone that OB and spread him around Australia? Judy --- Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Sue and all What a story! Great work to you and the wonderful Mum I have recently found I am too carrying twins (babe 5 and 6!) Paul is off for a vasectomy shortly after!!! I have read quite a few stories. I refuse to read Hosp managed stories as they are so medicalised and will scare me witless. I have read so many good HB twin stories of babies born at term great sizes and healthy. I went to see a believing Ob (only because I have no faith in local GP's and my midwife is hours away!) and he said if you grow good size babies the risk to twins is the same as a singleton, so why not stay at home! Looking forward to another great twin homebirth story Nov/Early December! Justine -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Do you Yahoo!? Try Yahoo! Photomail Beta: Send up to 300 photos in one email! http://au.photomail.mail.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
Dear Sue thank you for sharing this wonderfull birth story I am doing Home Nursing at present and have client in her 80's who remembers her twins brother and sister being born at home and others of her generation!! Also the Toodyay flour mill managers wife in 1927 had her twins at home in the top floor of the mill. The story is part of a pictorial display at this WA tourist site including how they had to climb a ladder to get them in and out for their walks and sun kicks!! We all await the wonderful news of Justine's next home birth!! Denise Hynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. - Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 6:48 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins Hi everyone, I thought to let you know about a lovely homebirth of twins on Monday 4th July. Two little boys, 6lb7oz and 5lb 12oz, born 10.5 hours apart. SRM 3.30 am and birth of baby #1 at 6.49am. Then a few hours where ctxs were fairly regular but not so strong unless baby#1 was breastfeeding. You could see the second baby positioning itself and the uterus working hard to pull down into shape for baby#2. I'd clamped the cord of baby#1 after 10 mins in case of bleedthrough, and clamped the other end as well so that the placenta retained its size until after baby#2 was born. After about 4 hours I asked to check baby #2 position. It was too hard to palpate so I did a VE and found head there, not well applied, but there. Cervix was 9 ish cms. So we waited, fetal heart always good and strong. Set up the pool and mother relaxed for an hour or so with ctxs beginning to pick up again. She decided to hop out and at 5.05 pm baby#2 emerged in his caul. She birthed the placenta unaided 35 minutes later. Blood loss 300ml. (Her Hb and ferritin levels were both low). It was a huge leap of faith, but there was nothing happening to raise any alarm bells. Both babies are really gorgeous, feeding well and very happy. I am once again humbled by the strength of women Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/39 - Release Date: 4/07/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
This reminds me of the Dad who helped his wife birth twins at home at Rabbit Flat in the middle of the Tanami Desert! No problems! Nicole Carver -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Denise Hynd Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 9:17 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins Dear Sue thank you for sharing this wonderfull birth story I am doing Home Nursing at present and have client in her 80's who remembers her twins brother and sister being born at home and others of her generation!! Also the Toodyay flour mill managers wife in 1927 had her twins at home in the top floor of the mill. The story is part of a pictorial display at this WA tourist site including how they had to climb a ladder to get them in and out for their walks and sun kicks!! We all await the wonderful news of Justine's next home birth!! Denise Hynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. - Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 6:48 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins Hi everyone, I thought to let you know about a lovely homebirth of twins on Monday 4th July. Two little boys, 6lb7oz and 5lb 12oz, born 10.5 hours apart. SRM 3.30 am and birth of baby #1 at 6.49am. Then a few hours where ctxs were fairly regular but not so strong unless baby#1 was breastfeeding. You could see the second baby positioning itself and the uterus working hard to pull down into shape for baby#2. I'd clamped the cord of baby#1 after 10 mins in case of bleedthrough, and clamped the other end as well so that the placenta retained its size until after baby#2 was born. After about 4 hours I asked to check baby #2 position. It was too hard to palpate so I did a VE and found head there, not well applied, but there. Cervix was 9 ish cms. So we waited, fetal heart always good and strong. Set up the pool and mother relaxed for an hour or so with ctxs beginning to pick up again. She decided to hop out and at 5.05 pm baby#2 emerged in his caul. She birthed the placenta unaided 35 minutes later. Blood loss 300ml. (Her Hb and ferritin levels were both low). It was a huge leap of faith, but there was nothing happening to raise any alarm bells. Both babies are really gorgeous, feeding well and very happy. I am once again humbled by the strength of women Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/39 - Release Date: 4/07/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
What a lovely birth - wish more midwives had the opportunity to see natural twin births, it is rare to see vaginal twin births in hospital these days, and I cannot imagine most obstetricians waiting patiently for the second twin to arrive in it's own good time - 5 minutes is the average! I have been lucky enough to attend twin births in the past (in England) but have seen very few midwife-delivered twins since I have been in Australia. Still, what with this, and Mary's lotus-birth caesarean birth recently, a glimmer of hope remains!! What a great achievement Mary - you must have been very persuasive! Thanks for the lovely birth stories Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 6:48 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins Hi everyone, I thought to let you know about a lovely homebirth of twins on Monday 4th July. Two little boys, 6lb7oz and 5lb 12oz, born 10.5 hours apart. SRM 3.30 am and birth of baby #1 at 6.49am. Then a few hours where ctxs were fairly regular but not so strong unless baby#1 was breastfeeding. You could see the second baby positioning itself and the uterus working hard to pull down into shape for baby#2. I'd clamped the cord of baby#1 after 10 mins in case of bleedthrough, and clamped the other end as well so that the placenta retained its size until after baby#2 was born. After about 4 hours I asked to check baby #2 position. It was too hard to palpate so I did a VE and found head there, not well applied, but there. Cervix was 9 ish cms. So we waited, fetal heart always good and strong. Set up the pool and mother relaxed for an hour or so with ctxs beginning to pick up again. She decided to hop out and at 5.05 pm baby#2 emerged in his caul. She birthed the placenta unaided 35 minutes later. Blood loss 300ml. (Her Hb and ferritin levels were both low). It was a huge leap of faith, but there was nothing happening to raise any alarm bells. Both babies are really gorgeous, feeding well and very happy. I am once again humbled by the strength of women Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/42 - Release Date: 6/07/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
Congratulations Justine, how exciting!!! Philippa Scott Birth Buddies Supporting Women ~ Creating Life President - Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville - Original Message - From: Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OzMid List ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins Dear Sue and all What a story! Great work to you and the wonderful Mum I have recently found I am too carrying twins (babe 5 and 6!) Paul is off for a vasectomy shortly after!!! I have read quite a few stories. I refuse to read Hosp managed stories as they are so medicalised and will scare me witless. I have read so many good HB twin stories of babies born at term great sizes and healthy. I went to see a believing Ob (only because I have no faith in local GP's and my midwife is hours away!) and he said if you grow good size babies the risk to twins is the same as a singleton, so why not stay at home! Looking forward to another great twin homebirth story Nov/Early December! Justine -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
Justine, Congratulations, wonderful news!! Love, Joy Joy Cocks RN (Div 1) RM CBE IBCLC BRIGHT Vic 3741 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OzMid List ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins Dear Sue and all What a story! Great work to you and the wonderful Mum I have recently found I am too carrying twins (babe 5 and 6!) Paul is off for a vasectomy shortly after!!! I have read quite a few stories. I refuse to read Hosp managed stories as they are so medicalised and will scare me witless. I have read so many good HB twin stories of babies born at term great sizes and healthy. I went to see a believing Ob (only because I have no faith in local GP's and my midwife is hours away!) and he said if you grow good size babies the risk to twins is the same as a singleton, so why not stay at home! Looking forward to another great twin homebirth story Nov/Early December! Justine -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
Hi everyone, I thought to let you know about a lovely homebirth of twins on Monday 4th July. Two little boys, 6lb7oz and 5lb 12oz, born 10.5 hours apart. SRM 3.30 am and birth of baby #1 at 6.49am. Then a few hours where ctxs were fairly regular but not so strong unless baby#1 was breastfeeding. You could see the second baby positioning itself and the uterus working hard to pull down into shape for baby#2. I'd clamped the cord of baby#1 after 10 mins in case of bleedthrough, and clamped the other end as well so that the placenta retained its size until after baby#2 was born. After about 4 hours I asked to check baby #2 position. It was too hard to palpate so I did a VE and found head there, not well applied, but there. Cervix was 9 ish cms. So we waited, fetal heart always good and strong. Set up the pool and mother relaxed for an hour or so with ctxs beginning to pick up again. She decided to hop out and at 5.05 pm baby#2 emerged in his caul. She birthed the placenta unaided 35 minutes later. Blood loss 300ml. (Her Hb and ferritin levels were both low). It was a huge leap of faith, but there was nothing happening to raise any alarm bells. Both babies are really gorgeous, feeding well and very happy. I am once again humbled by the strength of women Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
Sue, You should write-up this birth as a case study and submit it to a midwifery or medical journal. Congratulations on a great birth! Leanne. From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 08:48:54 +1000 Hi everyone, I thought to let you know about a lovely homebirth of twins on Monday 4th July. Two little boys, 6lb7oz and 5lb 12oz, born 10.5 hours apart. SRM 3.30 am and birth of baby #1 at 6.49am. Then a few hours where ctxs were fairly regular but not so strong unless baby#1 was breastfeeding. You could see the second baby positioning itself and the uterus working hard to pull down into shape for baby#2. I'd clamped the cord of baby#1 after 10 mins in case of bleedthrough, and clamped the other end as well so that the placenta retained its size until after baby#2 was born. After about 4 hours I asked to check baby #2 position. It was too hard to palpate so I did a VE and found head there, not well applied, but there. Cervix was 9 ish cms. So we waited, fetal heart always good and strong. Set up the pool and mother relaxed for an hour or so with ctxs beginning to pick up again. She decided to hop out and at 5.05 pm baby#2 emerged in his caul. She birthed the placenta unaided 35 minutes later. Blood loss 300ml. (Her Hb and ferritin levels were both low). It was a huge leap of faith, but there was nothing happening to raise any alarm bells. Both babies are really gorgeous, feeding well and very happy. I am once again humbled by the strength of women Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Leanne Wynne Midwife in charge of Women's Business Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
Wow Sue, my husband and I are reading this with amazement. So they were identical twins sharing a placenta like mine are? And I assume the cervix would have closed/reformed to some extent, dilated again when contractions started again? I've been beside myself worrying about the birth of my twins and how sharing a placenta will affect the birth. And that's quite a big size difference too for identicals, but obviously there was no TTTS during pg. Was there any TTTS during labour? Wow I would love to talk to you about this birth. Yvette pg with monochorionic diamniotic twin girls due 5th Sept 4th 5th babies. - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:48 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins Hi everyone, I thought to let you know about a lovely homebirth of twins on Monday 4th July. Two little boys, 6lb7oz and 5lb 12oz, born 10.5 hours apart. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth of twins
What a fantastic story Sue. It helps the rest of us keep our faith up in the face of problems. Cheers Judy --- Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I thought to let you know about a lovely homebirth of twins on Monday 4th July. Two little boys, 6lb7oz and 5lb 12oz, born 10.5 hours apart. SRM 3.30 am and birth of baby #1 at 6.49am. Then a few hours where ctxs were fairly regular but not so strong unless baby#1 was breastfeeding. You could see the second baby positioning itself and the uterus working hard to pull down into shape for baby#2. I'd clamped the cord of baby#1 after 10 mins in case of bleedthrough, and clamped the other end as well so that the placenta retained its size until after baby#2 was born. After about 4 hours I asked to check baby #2 position. It was too hard to palpate so I did a VE and found head there, not well applied, but there. Cervix was 9 ish cms. So we waited, fetal heart always good and strong. Set up the pool and mother relaxed for an hour or so with ctxs beginning to pick up again. She decided to hop out and at 5.05 pm baby#2 emerged in his caul. She birthed the placenta unaided 35 minutes later. Blood loss 300ml. (Her Hb and ferritin levels were both low). It was a huge leap of faith, but there was nothing happening to raise any alarm bells. Both babies are really gorgeous, feeding well and very happy. I am once again humbled by the strength of women Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Do you Yahoo!? Try Yahoo! Photomail Beta: Send up to 300 photos in one email! http://au.photomail.mail.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins (long)
Thankyou for the further replies received from: Justine Caines, Jesse/Jayne, Lieve Huybrechts, Lindsay Kennedy, Leanne Wynne, Ken Ward, Judy Chapman, Mary Murphy, Diane Gardner, Rachele Meredith Bernadine. Lindsay Bernadine, do you have your birth stories posted anywhere I could see them? Leanne, Judy Rachele, thanks heaps for the articles. I've read them printed them out. All 5 seem to conclude that time between twins doesn't need to be limited. Michigan one 2005 113 sets French one 2002 78 sets over 2-3 year period Midwifery Today one 1996, 199 sets, doesn't say where when or by whom ?Portuguese one 50 sets, doesn't say where, when or by whom American one 1984 115 sets 1982 1982 I tried to get into the Cochrane library but you have to pay to subscribe. I had my half hour appointment with a consultant today (the one I had to write to the head of obstetrics to get). What he said is totally at odds with these articles, but I don't get to ask how he's come to the view he has. What he told me today is as follows:- -If both babies are head down, he thinks it would be ok to not even have an epidural in. -If the first one is head down but the second one breech or transverse, then the focus is on avoiding c/section. This is where timing between babies management of second baby comes in. He's told me previously he wouldn't want more than 10 minutes between babies. He reckons contractions start up again in about 15 minutes after the first baby is born, then about 15 minutes after that the cervix starts to reform and the placenta starts to come away. He says once the cervix starts to reform, any chance of birthing the second baby vaginally is stuffed, you can't do anything and so c/section becomes an emergency situation, which we obviously don't want. He says the reason for the very high c/section rate in Victoria, which he now says is 60 to 80%, is because of doctors waiting too long for the second twin, then having no choice because it's too late to reach in. There's also the fact that even consultants often have very little or no experience in grabbing the second baby if it's breech or transverse. The 3 risks for the second baby are the cervix reforming, distress because of placenta, and cord prolapse. -He therefore thinks that if second baby is breech or transverse, I want the best chance of avoiding c/section, then what needs to happen is this: Epidural in place with at least a test dose by 4-5cm dilation, along with drip. Full block in the epidural for 2nd stage. As soon as first baby is born, Syntocinon in the drip to get contractions going asap for second baby, and ready to reach in for 2nd baby if she hasn't come down within 10 minutes. Because epidural needs to be a full block for a reach in, no chance of me being upright. -The shared placenta thing is not a factor in any of this, he doesn't know why I've been told this. (both by a registrar by Monash). -Re induction at 38 weeks, he is absolutely adamant that this is essential. He says 38 weeks for twins is like 42 weeks for singletons. I asked about ways of assessing the condition of the placenta at 38 weeks, ultrasound, non-stress test, that if it all looked good wouldn't it be better to give the babies a bit longer keep a close eye rather than subject them to the risks of induction. What risks? I mentioned the obvious ones briefly, and he said that was because of the finesse of the person administering the Syntocinon. I asked how they know about the placenta deteriorating sooner for twins, and he said because of dead babies. I asked so have they examined the placentas and found something wrong with them? Didn't get any further with this discussion, he started going on about babies in India suffering because of lack of intervention. So if both head down it looks good. If the first one is not head down it's planned c/section all new questions, I'll know after about 35 weeks how that's looking. If first one is head down and second one isn't, then I have to make decisions. And if I get to 38 weeks I have that decision to make too. Ag! I'm wondering, if I say no to the epidural, or yes to the epidural no to the Syntocinon, and we're monitoring the 2nd baby's heartbeat position, and it's been 10 minutes she's transverse, or breech still high up, to keep waiting or not, and if we do, what if the heartrate does start to drop. The doctor's argument would be it's already too late to get pain relief for a reach in so it'll be c/section. If I do allow the epidural, to serve the purpose of preventing c/section in this situation I would have to have drugs in it, meaning I'm not upright, meaning it's harder for the second baby to come down, meaning high chance of reach in. What if all that was in place but the consultant or registrar doesn't know how to reach in for a breech anyway
RE: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins (long)
Thanks for the update. Hope both bubbies are head first when the time comes. Will be thinking of you. Maureen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lindsay Yvette Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 6:14 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins (long) Thankyou for the further replies received from: Justine Caines, Jesse/Jayne, Lieve Huybrechts, Lindsay Kennedy, Leanne Wynne, Ken Ward, Judy Chapman, Mary Murphy, Diane Gardner, Rachele Meredith Bernadine. Lindsay Bernadine, do you have your birth stories posted anywhere I could see them? Leanne, Judy Rachele, thanks heaps for the articles. I've read them printed them out. All 5 seem to conclude that time between twins doesn't need to be limited. Michigan one 2005 113 sets French one 2002 78 sets over 2-3 year period Midwifery Today one 1996, 199 sets, doesn't say where when or by whom ?Portuguese one 50 sets, doesn't say where, when or by whom American one 1984 115 sets 1982 1982 I tried to get into the Cochrane library but you have to pay to subscribe. I had my half hour appointment with a consultant today (the one I had to write to the head of obstetrics to get). What he said is totally at odds with these articles, but I don't get to ask how he's come to the view he has. What he told me today is as follows:- -If both babies are head down, he thinks it would be ok to not even have an epidural in. -If the first one is head down but the second one breech or transverse, then the focus is on avoiding c/section. This is where timing between babies management of second baby comes in. He's told me previously he wouldn't want more than 10 minutes between babies. He reckons contractions start up again in about 15 minutes after the first baby is born, then about 15 minutes after that the cervix starts to reform and the placenta starts to come away. He says once the cervix starts to reform, any chance of birthing the second baby vaginally is stuffed, you can't do anything and so c/section becomes an emergency situation, which we obviously don't want. He says the reason for the very high c/section rate in Victoria, which he now says is 60 to 80%, is because of doctors waiting too long for the second twin, then having no choice because it's too late to reach in. There's also the fact that even consultants often have very little or no experience in grabbing the second baby if it's breech or transverse. The 3 risks for the second baby are the cervix reforming, distress because of placenta, and cord prolapse. -He therefore thinks that if second baby is breech or transverse, I want the best chance of avoiding c/section, then what needs to happen is this: Epidural in place with at least a test dose by 4-5cm dilation, along with drip. Full block in the epidural for 2nd stage. As soon as first baby is born, Syntocinon in the drip to get contractions going asap for second baby, and ready to reach in for 2nd baby if she hasn't come down within 10 minutes. Because epidural needs to be a full block for a reach in, no chance of me being upright. -The shared placenta thing is not a factor in any of this, he doesn't know why I've been told this. (both by a registrar by Monash). -Re induction at 38 weeks, he is absolutely adamant that this is essential. He says 38 weeks for twins is like 42 weeks for singletons. I asked about ways of assessing the condition of the placenta at 38 weeks, ultrasound, non-stress test, that if it all looked good wouldn't it be better to give the babies a bit longer keep a close eye rather than subject them to the risks of induction. What risks? I mentioned the obvious ones briefly, and he said that was because of the finesse of the person administering the Syntocinon. I asked how they know about the placenta deteriorating sooner for twins, and he said because of dead babies. I asked so have they examined the placentas and found something wrong with them? Didn't get any further with this discussion, he started going on about babies in India suffering because of lack of intervention. So if both head down it looks good. If the first one is not head down it's planned c/section all new questions, I'll know after about 35 weeks how that's looking. If first one is head down and second one isn't, then I have to make decisions. And if I get to 38 weeks I have that decision to make too. Ag! I'm wondering, if I say no to the epidural, or yes to the epidural no to the Syntocinon, and we're monitoring the 2nd baby's heartbeat position, and it's been 10 minutes she's transverse, or breech still high up, to keep waiting or not, and if we do, what if the heartrate does start to drop. The doctor's argument would be it's already too late to get pain relief for a reach in so it'll be c/section. If I do allow the epidural, to serve the purpose of preventing c/section in this situation I
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins (long)
Does the cervix reform after the birth of the first twin? Does it then start right from the beginning and have to efface and dilate all over again? What kind of time frame are we looking at? Sonja - Original Message - From: Lindsay Yvette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins (long) Thankyou for the further replies received from: Justine Caines, Jesse/Jayne, Lieve Huybrechts, Lindsay Kennedy, Leanne Wynne, Ken Ward, Judy Chapman, Mary Murphy, Diane Gardner, Rachele Meredith Bernadine. Lindsay Bernadine, do you have your birth stories posted anywhere I could see them? Leanne, Judy Rachele, thanks heaps for the articles. I've read them printed them out. All 5 seem to conclude that time between twins doesn't need to be limited. Michigan one 2005 113 sets French one 2002 78 sets over 2-3 year period Midwifery Today one 1996, 199 sets, doesn't say where when or by whom ?Portuguese one 50 sets, doesn't say where, when or by whom American one 1984 115 sets 1982 1982 I tried to get into the Cochrane library but you have to pay to subscribe. I had my half hour appointment with a consultant today (the one I had to write to the head of obstetrics to get). What he said is totally at odds with these articles, but I don't get to ask how he's come to the view he has. What he told me today is as follows:- -If both babies are head down, he thinks it would be ok to not even have an epidural in. -If the first one is head down but the second one breech or transverse, then the focus is on avoiding c/section. This is where timing between babies management of second baby comes in. He's told me previously he wouldn't want more than 10 minutes between babies. He reckons contractions start up again in about 15 minutes after the first baby is born, then about 15 minutes after that the cervix starts to reform and the placenta starts to come away. He says once the cervix starts to reform, any chance of birthing the second baby vaginally is stuffed, you can't do anything and so c/section becomes an emergency situation, which we obviously don't want. He says the reason for the very high c/section rate in Victoria, which he now says is 60 to 80%, is because of doctors waiting too long for the second twin, then having no choice because it's too late to reach in. There's also the fact that even consultants often have very little or no experience in grabbing the second baby if it's breech or transverse. The 3 risks for the second baby are the cervix reforming, distress because of placenta, and cord prolapse. -He therefore thinks that if second baby is breech or transverse, I want the best chance of avoiding c/section, then what needs to happen is this: Epidural in place with at least a test dose by 4-5cm dilation, along with drip. Full block in the epidural for 2nd stage. As soon as first baby is born, Syntocinon in the drip to get contractions going asap for second baby, and ready to reach in for 2nd baby if she hasn't come down within 10 minutes. Because epidural needs to be a full block for a reach in, no chance of me being upright. -The shared placenta thing is not a factor in any of this, he doesn't know why I've been told this. (both by a registrar by Monash). -Re induction at 38 weeks, he is absolutely adamant that this is essential. He says 38 weeks for twins is like 42 weeks for singletons. I asked about ways of assessing the condition of the placenta at 38 weeks, ultrasound, non-stress test, that if it all looked good wouldn't it be better to give the babies a bit longer keep a close eye rather than subject them to the risks of induction. What risks? I mentioned the obvious ones briefly, and he said that was because of the finesse of the person administering the Syntocinon. I asked how they know about the placenta deteriorating sooner for twins, and he said because of dead babies. I asked so have they examined the placentas and found something wrong with them? Didn't get any further with this discussion, he started going on about babies in India suffering because of lack of intervention. So if both head down it looks good. If the first one is not head down it's planned c/section all new questions, I'll know after about 35 weeks how that's looking. If first one is head down and second one isn't, then I have to make decisions. And if I get to 38 weeks I have that decision to make too. Ag! I'm wondering, if I say no to the epidural, or yes to the epidural no to the Syntocinon, and we're monitoring the 2nd baby's heartbeat position, and it's been 10 minutes she's transverse, or breech still high up, to keep waiting or not, and if we do, what if the heartrate does start to drop. The doctor's argument would be it's already too late to get pain relief
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins
I have copied two articles which may be of some help to you. All the best, Leanne. Investigating the inter-twin interval Issue 11: 30 May 2005 Source: American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 2005; 192: 1420-2 The length of time between the birth of the first and second twin has no significant effect on the immediate neonatal outcome of the younger twin, according to the results of a new study. Specialists in maternal-fetal medicine at the Saint Joseph Mercy Hospital in Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA, reviewed the hospitals medical records concerning the neonatal outcomes of all live-born viable vaginal twin deliveries over a 6-year period: a total of 144 sets of twins. They used statistical analyses to identify factors significantly associated with immediate neonatal outcomes of the second twin: the umbilical arterial pH, the umbilical venous pH, the 1-minute Apgar score and the 5-minute Apgar score. Overall, the inter-twin time interval for the twins studied ranged from a few minutes to an extreme of about 130 minutes. The 1- and 5-minute Apgar scores were significantly predicted only by gestational age and birth weight, while umbilical arterial and venous pH were significantly predicted only by the inter-twin interval. For every extra minute of the inter-twin interval, the arterial pH fell linearly by 0.00063 units, and the venous pH by 0.00081 units. Second twins born more than 45 minutes after the first twin typically had an arterial or venous pH that was 0.07 units lower than that of second twins born within 15 minutes of the first twin. Not clinically relevant? The researchers say their study confirms that a longer inter-twin interval is associated with a continuous slow decline in umbilical cord pH. But they add: However, although these pH differences may be of note from a physiologic standpoint, we do not believe that they are of a magnitude great enough to influence clinical management. They continue: We believe our data support the view that expectant management of the second twin birth is appropriate and do not support arbitrary intervention based solely on time. The second-twin delivery dilemma Issue 08: 22 Apr 2002 Source: European Journal of Obstetrics Gynecology and Reproductive Biology 2002; In press (lead author Pons J-C) The first twin has been delivered successfully, but what is the optimal method for delivering the second? The two main options are active and expectant management, a choice that has been the subject of debate among specialists for many years. That debate is now furthered by a new study comparing the two approaches. Specialists in Grenoble and Paris, France, carried out a retrospective study investigating twin births at two maternity units over a 2-3 year period: a total of 78 pairs of twins at the Port-Royal unit in Paris, and 113 pairs at the Antoine Beclere unit in Clamart. All the first twins had been delivered vaginally. The expectant approach At the Antoine Beclere, the obstetrics team generally applied the expectant approach to delivering the second twin. This is based on respect for the natural process of twin delivery: the delivery of the first twin (twin A), then an interval of 10-15 minutes marked by a halt to uterine contractions, then resumption of contractions and delivery of the second twin (twin B), followed by the afterbirth. As the researchers point out in their paper, the role of the medical team is to accompany this process, with watchful waiting, fetal heart rate monitoring, external version of the second twin in a transverse lie towards the longitudinal, and patience. An objective is to avoid maneuvers considered traumatizing (such as total breech extraction) or alternatives such as cesarean delivery of twin B. The average delay between the birth of two twins at this unit was 9 minutes. A total of 51 percent of deliveries were spontaneous, with intra-uterine manipulation applied to only 2 percent of the second twins. It was necessary to perform a cesarean to deliver the second twin in five of the 113 cases. The active approach In contrast, the team at the Port-Royal largely applied the active approach to delivering twin B, based on the view that time spent in utero after the birth of twin A is harmful. The difficulty of fetal monitoring and the risk of acute fetal distress and of retraction of the cervix may make the second twin's delivery very difficult, if not impossible, the researchers note. The active approach aims to limit the duration of the interval between the two births. After the birth of twin A, the artificial rupture of the membranes must be followed by twin B's birth, either spontaneously or assisted by obstetric maneuvers. At the Port-Royal, the average time between the two births was 5 minutes, and 43 percent of twin B births involved substantial intra-uterine manipulations to assist vaginal delivery. Only 27 percent of the deliveries were
RE: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins/placenta
Surely the condition of the placenta can be monitored by fetal movements and growth. An unhealthy placenta is going to affect the baby quickly. Placentas do deteriorate towards the end of pregnancy, that's one reason they don't like babies to go too far past term. But then there are ways to assess fetal wellbeing that has to also reveal the placentas condition. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of jesse/jayne Sent: Thursday, 2 June 2005 12:11 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins/placenta And, can the condition of twins placenta/s be expected to deteriorate earlier than a singleton's?? Jayne - Original Message - From: Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OzMid List ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins They say there is no way of telling the condition of the placenta, Hello Midwives out there Is the above true?? Is it specific to twins? I thought an ultrasound could certainly show the condition of the placenta JC -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins
Having read both the articles supplied, comment on the second one. I know the OB people have to gain skills for emergencies but it is pretty pathetic to subject mothers and babies to the trauma and anxiety of these obstetric interventions just for practice. Another example of women and babies not being respected by the medical establishment in that hospital. Cheers Judy --- leanne wynne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have copied two articles which may be of some help to you. All the best, Leanne. Investigating the inter-twin interval Issue 11: 30 May 2005 Source: American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 2005; 192: 1420-2 The length of time between the birth of the first and second twin has no significant effect on the immediate neonatal outcome of the younger twin, according to the results of a new study. Specialists in maternal-fetal medicine at the Saint Joseph Mercy Hospital in Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA, reviewed the hospitals medical records concerning the neonatal outcomes of all live-born viable vaginal twin deliveries over a 6-year period: a total of 144 sets of twins. They used statistical analyses to identify factors significantly associated with immediate neonatal outcomes of the second twin: the umbilical arterial pH, the umbilical venous pH, the 1-minute Apgar score and the 5-minute Apgar score. Overall, the inter-twin time interval for the twins studied ranged from a few minutes to an extreme of about 130 minutes. The 1- and 5-minute Apgar scores were significantly predicted only by gestational age and birth weight, while umbilical arterial and venous pH were significantly predicted only by the inter-twin interval. For every extra minute of the inter-twin interval, the arterial pH fell linearly by 0.00063 units, and the venous pH by 0.00081 units. Second twins born more than 45 minutes after the first twin typically had an arterial or venous pH that was 0.07 units lower than that of second twins born within 15 minutes of the first twin. Not clinically relevant? The researchers say their study confirms that a longer inter-twin interval is associated with a continuous slow decline in umbilical cord pH. But they add: However, although these pH differences may be of note from a physiologic standpoint, we do not believe that they are of a magnitude great enough to influence clinical management. They continue: We believe our data support the view that expectant management of the second twin birth is appropriate and do not support arbitrary intervention based solely on time. The second-twin delivery dilemma Issue 08: 22 Apr 2002 Source: European Journal of Obstetrics Gynecology and Reproductive Biology 2002; In press (lead author Pons J-C) The first twin has been delivered successfully, but what is the optimal method for delivering the second? The two main options are active and expectant management, a choice that has been the subject of debate among specialists for many years. That debate is now furthered by a new study comparing the two approaches. Specialists in Grenoble and Paris, France, carried out a retrospective study investigating twin births at two maternity units over a 2-3 year period: a total of 78 pairs of twins at the Port-Royal unit in Paris, and 113 pairs at the Antoine Beclere unit in Clamart. All the first twins had been delivered vaginally. The expectant approach At the Antoine Beclere, the obstetrics team generally applied the expectant approach to delivering the second twin. This is based on respect for the natural process of twin delivery: the delivery of the first twin (twin A), then an interval of 10-15 minutes marked by a halt to uterine contractions, then resumption of contractions and delivery of the second twin (twin B), followed by the afterbirth. As the researchers point out in their paper, the role of the medical team is to accompany this process, with watchful waiting, fetal heart rate monitoring, external version of the second twin in a transverse lie towards the longitudinal, and patience. An objective is to avoid maneuvers considered traumatizing (such as total breech extraction) or alternatives such as cesarean delivery of twin B. The average delay between the birth of two twins at this unit was 9 minutes. A total of 51 percent of deliveries were spontaneous, with intra-uterine manipulation applied to only 2 percent of the second twins. It was necessary to perform a cesarean to deliver the second twin in five of the 113 cases. The active approach In contrast, the team at the Port-Royal largely applied the active approach to delivering twin B, based on the view that time spent in utero after the birth of twin A is harmful. The difficulty of fetal monitoring and the risk of acute fetal distress and of retraction of the cervix may make the second
RE: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins/placenta
There is research that says placentas go on making new cells, even at the 'end' of the gestation period. (no I don't have the reference, just something I skimmed over one time)Also,some placentas can malfunction even at 28 weeks and others don't at 42 + weeks, so it is not necessarily a time thing . MM growth. An unhealthy placenta is going to affect the baby quickly. Placentas do deteriorate towards the end of pregnancy, that's one reason they don't like babies to go too far past term. But then there are ways to assess fetal wellbeing that has to also reveal the placentas condition. And, can the condition of twins placenta/s be expected to deteriorate earlier than a singleton's?? Jayne Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins They say there is no way of telling the condition of the placenta, Hello Midwives out there Is the above true?? Is it specific to twins? I thought an ultrasound could certainly show the condition of the placenta JC -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins
Thanks for your reply Lieve. What state are you in? I'm certainly not keen to let them induce if I get to 38 weeks. They say there is no way of telling the condition of the placenta, and that there's evidence or studies to show significant increase in worse outcomes after 38 weeks or something like that, but I don't know yet what studies/evidence they're relying on re this. I will be asking for details as soon as they let me see someone. I see with the second one you described there was 1/2 hour between babies for monochorionic diamniotic twins. I'm not convinced about the 10 minute thing either, and they'll have to give me details of what evidence they're relying on if they want me to consider this seriously as well. I'm starting to think I should place the onus more on them to prove to me why I should adhere to their recommendations rather than the other way around. If they can let me see the info myself I can consider it, but I don't think I should just take their word for it. I met another pregnant mum yesterday, same type of twins as me and in a public hospital in Melbourne too. She's having the same issues as me. She doesn't want an epidural and has been told she has to have one. She waits up to 2 hours for a rushed 10 minute appointment with an Ob, then doesn't get to ask any questions. We'll be staying in touch; she's due a few weeks before me. Yvette (pg with monochorionic diamniotic twins due 5th Sept). Hello Yvette, I just want to tell you my excperience. I accompagned two twin births this year in the hospital. We have there very good supporting obs, that are very confident with breech and twin births. Lieve -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins
They say there is no way of telling the condition of the placenta, Hello Midwives out there Is the above true?? Is it specific to twins? I thought an ultrasound could certainly show the condition of the placenta JC -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins/placenta
And, can the condition of twins placenta/s be expected to deteriorate earlier than a singleton's?? Jayne - Original Message - From: Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OzMid List ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins They say there is no way of telling the condition of the placenta, Hello Midwives out there Is the above true?? Is it specific to twins? I thought an ultrasound could certainly show the condition of the placenta JC -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins
Hello Yvette, I live in Belgium, Europe. The best way to interprete the condition of your placenta are the signs your twins and your body will give you. Feel for changes in the movements. When the baby's feel like in a playgarden there is nothing wrong with your placenta. When the baby's become quiet then you have to be alert. It is a myth that baby's stop moving so much at the end of the pregnancy. So feel what they tell you and feel also your body for signs of fear of tension. Also your body will tell you if something is going wrong. When the placenta's condition is not so well, your bloodpression will rise and your will have swollen feet and hands. Also other signs of unwellness are important. But even then you have to consider the risks of inducion against waiting and respect the signs by giving your body the rest and relaxation it needs. Organise already the last weeks help in your housekeeping and make your life as pleasant as you can. Read those books you ever wanted to read, go for small walks and enjoy your life. I will not answer mails now till Tuesday. I am leaving for Finland in an hour. Greetings Lieve -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Lindsay Yvette Verzonden: donderdag 2 juni 2005 2:55 Aan: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Onderwerp: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins Thanks for your reply Lieve. What state are you in? I'm certainly not keen to let them induce if I get to 38 weeks. They say there is no way of telling the condition of the placenta, and that there's evidence or studies to show significant increase in worse outcomes after 38 weeks or something like that, but I don't know yet what studies/evidence they're relying on re this. I will be asking for details as soon as they let me see someone. I see with the second one you described there was 1/2 hour between babies for monochorionic diamniotic twins. I'm not convinced about the 10 minute thing either, and they'll have to give me details of what evidence they're relying on if they want me to consider this seriously as well. I'm starting to think I should place the onus more on them to prove to me why I should adhere to their recommendations rather than the other way around. If they can let me see the info myself I can consider it, but I don't think I should just take their word for it. I met another pregnant mum yesterday, same type of twins as me and in a public hospital in Melbourne too. She's having the same issues as me. She doesn't want an epidural and has been told she has to have one. She waits up to 2 hours for a rushed 10 minute appointment with an Ob, then doesn't get to ask any questions. We'll be staying in touch; she's due a few weeks before me. Yvette (pg with monochorionic diamniotic twins due 5th Sept). Hello Yvette, I just want to tell you my excperience. I accompagned two twin births this year in the hospital. We have there very good supporting obs, that are very confident with breech and twin births. Lieve -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.3 - Release Date: 31/05/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.3 - Release Date: 31/05/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins
There is a study currently being done to assess induction/caesarean section at 38 weeks for twins. Apparently there is suggestions of deterioration in outcomes after that. Having said that I had twins at 40 weeks (by induction in the end) and they were 30 minutes apart with no apparent problems. Lindsay -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lieve Huybrechts Sent: Thursday, 2 June 2005 2:19 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins Hello Yvette, I live in Belgium, Europe. The best way to interprete the condition of your placenta are the signs your twins and your body will give you. Feel for changes in the movements. When the baby's feel like in a playgarden there is nothing wrong with your placenta. When the baby's become quiet then you have to be alert. It is a myth that baby's stop moving so much at the end of the pregnancy. So feel what they tell you and feel also your body for signs of fear of tension. Also your body will tell you if something is going wrong. When the placenta's condition is not so well, your bloodpression will rise and your will have swollen feet and hands. Also other signs of unwellness are important. But even then you have to consider the risks of inducion against waiting and respect the signs by giving your body the rest and relaxation it needs. Organise already the last weeks help in your housekeeping and make your life as pleasant as you can. Read those books you ever wanted to read, go for small walks and enjoy your life. I will not answer mails now till Tuesday. I am leaving for Finland in an hour. Greetings Lieve -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Lindsay Yvette Verzonden: donderdag 2 juni 2005 2:55 Aan: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Onderwerp: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins Thanks for your reply Lieve. What state are you in? I'm certainly not keen to let them induce if I get to 38 weeks. They say there is no way of telling the condition of the placenta, and that there's evidence or studies to show significant increase in worse outcomes after 38 weeks or something like that, but I don't know yet what studies/evidence they're relying on re this. I will be asking for details as soon as they let me see someone. I see with the second one you described there was 1/2 hour between babies for monochorionic diamniotic twins. I'm not convinced about the 10 minute thing either, and they'll have to give me details of what evidence they're relying on if they want me to consider this seriously as well. I'm starting to think I should place the onus more on them to prove to me why I should adhere to their recommendations rather than the other way around. If they can let me see the info myself I can consider it, but I don't think I should just take their word for it. I met another pregnant mum yesterday, same type of twins as me and in a public hospital in Melbourne too. She's having the same issues as me. She doesn't want an epidural and has been told she has to have one. She waits up to 2 hours for a rushed 10 minute appointment with an Ob, then doesn't get to ask any questions. We'll be staying in touch; she's due a few weeks before me. Yvette (pg with monochorionic diamniotic twins due 5th Sept). Hello Yvette, I just want to tell you my excperience. I accompagned two twin births this year in the hospital. We have there very good supporting obs, that are very confident with breech and twin births. Lieve -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.3 - Release Date: 31/05/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.3 - Release Date: 31/05/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 1/06/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 1/06/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins
Hello Yvette, I just want to tell you my excperience. I accompagned two twin births this year in the hospital. We have there very good supporting obs, that are very confident with breech and twin births. The first mother was due jan 13th and went in spontaneous labor jan 18th. It was her first pregnancy. First the doctor also mentioned inducing on due date (not 38 weeks) but mother negotiated and could wait until spontaneous labour. Het membranes ruptured Sunday evening without labour, Monday morning she got stimulation and went in labour at noon. Slow progression, but at midnight she was complete, but no pushing urge. We waited for 1 1/2 hours and thn she felt some pushing urge, but not enough to get to good pushing. At the end doctor tried with ventousse, gave an epidural and tried again (but no violence) and then we had to perform a c-section. First baby was so in assynclitisme that he couldn't engage deeper. Mother and babys were fine after the marathon they had and she has a very good feeling with the birth. She is always informed at every stage about possibilitys and made her own choices. I had the privilege to be her midwife and could stay with them all the time. After the c-section babys stayed with her, breastfeeding was no problem and till this moment they are exclusively breastfed. The second twin mother went in spontaneous labour at 36 weeks and gave birth on the birthing chair with only some oxytocine for second twin, born 1/2 hour after the first, they were monochorionic diamniotic. She could hold the first one for 20 minutes before pushing the second out and immediatly both babys were given to her. She also had a midwife exclusively for her. She returned home after 5 days, they request her to stay for the birth weight (2460gr and 2620 gr)and pregnancy of 36 weeks. Baby's received some cupfeeding and mother put them on the breast and pumped. On day 9 they have exclusively breastfeeding and both regained birthweight. It was her 3th pregnancy with 1 homebirth. So 38 weeks is never been an issue for the obs and also epidural was no must. Even though the first ended in c-section they had plenty of time to give her the epidural to perform the c-section. I think you are privileged to have your own midwife. I wish you a great birth and lovely children. Lieve -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Lindsay Yvette Verzonden: zaterdag 28 mei 2005 11:41 Aan: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Onderwerp: Re: [ozmidwifery] RE Twins Thankyou Ken, Andrea, and Sue for your replies. Andrea we can't afford a home birth. I do have the maternitycoalition.org site bookmarked, it's great. What you said about the epidural with the test dose is interesting, and you've obviously seen happen all the things I'm fearing. I can be pretty assertive if I feel confident enough in what I believe, so I'm hoping that armed with lots of info knowing what they will try to do, I'll be able to handle it politely but firmly say no where I need to. Sue, thanks so much for that info re the 18 sets of homebirth twins.. I bet Ina May's stats are great too. It's a real worry about the time limit for the second baby. I want to find out what they're worried about so I can argue for more time if necessary. I wonder if having 3 kids before will make the second baby more likely to come down more quickly? Going past 38 weeks if it happens will be a worry too. I hope I just go at 37 weeks 6 days, lol. Waiting on my reply from the head of obstetrics. Mentioned to my GP that I'd written the letter to the hospital. She gave me the name of the head of obstetrics says he's very approachable will see me himself, if not she'll ring him for me. She thinks I'll have no trouble getting to see someone in anaesthetics too. (She's an Ob too used to work there until recently). I have a detailed birth plan I'm working on, but not putting it in til I have heaps more info. Want to make it simple enough for them to refer to easily, assertive so they get the point that nothing is to be done without my consent, clear about what I want, but friendly sounding iykwim. Will keep you posted about how it goes, glad you're interested. And any additional info gratefully received. Yvette (pg with monochorionic diamniotic twins due 5th Sept.) -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 27/05/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 27/05/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] RE Twins
Hi Yvette, Good luck with your twins birth - I've only attended twins at home, but I can empathise with your desire and concerns about wanting a normal birth in a hospital setting. I am currently looking at twins births through all my texts - including one called 'High Risk Pregnancy Delivery' and most of the major concerns are around the mono/mono scene where there is a higher risk of entanglement of cord/bodies etc. Your situation looks great for a good birth, and as you've been told, best if first baby is head down for everyone's peace of mind. You could really encourage this as I'm sure you're aware, by dialoguing with your babes. The time limit of ten minutes between babies seems absurd - I have records here for 18 sets of homeborn twins. The average time between babies for 16 births was 27 minutes, ranging from 7 mins to 90 minutes, with only 5 sets arriving within the 10 minute time frame. One of the other sets were 23 hours apart, and the other I don't have the time difference for. Placentas were birthed between 1 and 60 minutes after the second baby. There was one cord prolapse of a first born breech twin, who then came quickly and was fine. One of the sets of twins died in utero before labour began at 38 weeks (they shared a placenta and were possibly identical as they both has the same slight abnormality, but I can't confirm that), and all the others arrived in fine form. Their gestational ages varied from 42 days early to 14 days overdue for 15 sets, with 7 sets arriving 21-42 days early, 2 sets 7 days early and 6 sets term or overdue; 2 dates were unknown and one set I don't have that information. I am also currently waiting for statistics from The Farm where Ina May Gaskin and her team of midwives have delivered twins. I am aware of current hospital practice of rushing the second baby, usually then born by c/section, but in the last year I have heard about 2 sets born normally at our local large teaching hospital, so it does happen and there is hope, particularly if you are armed with your own midwife, and are well informed. Good luck Yvette and I hope this information helps, Sue Cookson -Original Message-[Ken Ward] *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of *Lindsay Yvette *Sent:* Thursday, 26 May 2005 3:26 PM *To:* ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au *Subject:* [ozmidwifery] monochorionic diamniotic twins birth in a public hospital, hopefully vaginal. Hello list. I've subscribed so I can submit details of my situation for anyone who wants to respond, and so I can keep an eye out for anything that comes up about twins births. I'm not a midwife or anything, so I hope it's ok to do this. I'm a public patient at Box Hill hospital in Melbourne, and due to have twin girls on 5th Sept, or by 38 weeks which is 22nd Aug. They are identical, sharing a placenta but each in her own amniotic sac. I want a vaginal birth without unnecessary intervention provided this is safe. I'm looking for any advice, information, studies, articles, comments etc relevant to my situation. I'm having ultrasounds every 2 weeks, and no signs of TTTS as yet, though their sizes have been varying. The baby girls have been fine and are kicking and wiggling nicely. The hospital has a 'know your midwife' thing, so I know and am happy with the midwife who will be attending me. She was with me for the birth of my 11 month old son at the same hospital. I'll also have my husband and a support person with me, and hopefully my 2 daughters, 12 8. My daughters were both born at home, and all 3 of my births so far have been vaginal with no drugs or intervention. I'm 39 and in good health, no GD, no high BP ever, no health probs. I'm 5'6 and 75 kg at 25 weeks. I've always gone 13 hours from the very first contraction, and the waters have always broken 1-3 hours before the birth, with the head never engaging until well into labour. My son turned himself from posterior a couple of hours before birth while I was lying on my side. The hospital tell me I will have one of the 11 consultants attending me, and he/she will be running it, but my midwife may get to catch the first baby. They say I must be induced if I get past 38 weeks, and they very much want me to have an epidural incase of needing to reach in for the second baby. They don't want more than 10 mins between babies. One Ob I saw said no vaginal births are done for this type of pg, one I've seen since then says it can be attempted if 1st one presents head down, but 65% of all twins in Melb are born by c/section. I've asked about having the epi in with no drugs in it, but it seems it depends on the views/wishes of whichever anaesthetist happens to be on when I get there. If I go earlier than 32-34 weeks I get
RE: [ozmidwifery] monochorionic diamniotic twins birth in a public hospital, hopefully vaginal.
I hope you get the birth you want. After working there I know the pressure you will be under to conform to hospital policy. Lucky you have a KYM, and she's someone you know. Just remember, you have the right to refuse any treatment not life saving. It does seem your midwife is preparing you,for what may well be a bit of a battle. Do keep us up to date. Best wishes and support. -Original Message-[Ken Ward] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Lindsay YvetteSent: Thursday, 26 May 2005 3:26 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] monochorionic diamniotic twins birth in a public hospital, hopefully vaginal. Hello list. I've subscribed so I can submit details of my situation for anyone who wants to respond, and so I can keep an eye out for anything that comes up about twins births. I'm not a midwife or anything, so I hope it's ok to do this. I'm a public patient at Box Hill hospital in Melbourne, and due to have twin girls on 5th Sept, or by 38 weeks which is 22nd Aug. They are identical, sharing a placenta but each in her own amniotic sac. I want a vaginal birth without unnecessary intervention provided this is safe. I'm looking for any advice, information, studies, articles, comments etc relevant to my situation. I'm having ultrasounds every 2 weeks, and no signs of TTTS as yet, though their sizes have been varying. The baby girls have been fine and are kicking and wiggling nicely. The hospital has a 'know your midwife' thing, so I know and am happy with the midwife who will be attending me. She was with me for the birth of my 11 month old son at the same hospital. I'll also have my husband and a support person with me, and hopefully my 2 daughters, 12 8. My daughters were both born at home, and all 3 of my births so far have been vaginal with no drugs or intervention. I'm 39 and in good health, no GD, no high BP ever, no health probs. I'm 5'6" and 75 kg at 25 weeks. I've always gone 13 hours from the very first contraction, and the waters have always broken 1-3 hours before the birth, with the head never engaging until well into labour.My sonturned himself from posterior a couple of hours before birth while I was lying on my side. The hospital tell me I will have one of the 11 consultants attending me, and he/she will be running it, but my midwife may get to catch the first baby. They say I must be induced if I get past 38 weeks, and they very much want me to have an epidural incase of needing to reach in for the second baby. They don't want more than 10 mins between babies. One Ob I saw said no vaginal births are done for this type of pg, one I've seen since then says it can be attempted if 1st one presents head down, but 65% of all twins in Melb are born by c/section. I've asked about having the epi in with no drugs in it, but it seems it depends on the views/wishes of whichever anaesthetist happens to be on when I get there. If I go earlier than 32-34 weeks I get transferred to Monash, they've told me over the phone that I would get a c/section for monochorionic diamniotic twins. My impression is that changing hospitals will not increase my chances of a vaginal birth, I'm just going to have to be very well informed prepared to refuse treatment if necessary. Getting info from the hospital is extremely difficult. The Ob appointments are 10 minutes, they just don't have time to discuss. The midwife doesn't have the same time problems I've decided to just see her have the u/s not bother with most of the Ob appointments as they just don't have time to talk to me. I've written to the head of obstetrics though, requesting a proper appointment just for the purpose of discussing the birth. I feel it's important to get their take on things so I know what I'll be dealing with. Also, because I have to have a consultant present, I want to arrive at the hospital early so I know who I'm dealing with and have time to discuss with them while I'm not in strong contractions. AMBA don't seem to have any birth info, butI've been to one of their ante natal nights anyway just to start meeting people. I've been reading all the twins birth stories I can find, but have not found any info about differences in types of twins pregnancies, ie sharing a placenta increasing the risks, or discussion on when c/section is really needed and when it isn't. I'm trying to understand what the risks are that we'll be looking for. What can happen with cord prolapse and how can you anticipate it? Just to clarify, my twins are monochorionic, diamniotic - 2 sacs, 1 placenta. They are not mo mo twins, where cord prolapse cord issues in general would be much more of a risk, but I gather cord prolapse is still a risk with diamniotic twins as there is more chance of w
Re: [ozmidwifery] monochorionic diamniotic twins birth in a public hospital, hopefully vaginal.
Hi Yvette, Good luck with your twins birth - I've only attended twins at home, but I can empathise with your desire and concerns about wanting a normal birth in a hospital setting. I am currently looking at twins births through all my texts - including one called 'High Risk Pregnancy Delivery' and most of the major concerns are around the mono/mono scene where there is a higher risk of entanglement of cord/bodies etc. Your situation looks great for a good birth, and as you've been told, best if first baby is head down for everyone's peace of mind. You could really encourage this as I'm sure you're aware, by dialoguing with your babes. The time limit of ten minutes between babies seems absurd - I have records here for 18 sets of homeborn twins. The average time between babies for 16 births was 27 minutes, ranging from 7 mins to 90 minutes, with only 5 sets arriving within the 10 minute time frame. One of the other sets were 23 hours apart, and the other I don't have the time difference for. Placentas were birthed between 1 and 60 minutes after the second baby, and in one case both placentas arrived between the baby's birth with no problems to second baby who arrived 8 minutes later! There was one cord prolapse of a first born breech twin, who then came quickly and was fine. One of the sets of twins died in utero before labour began at 38 weeks (they shared a placenta and were possibly identical as they both has the same slight abnormality, but I can't confirm that), and all the others arrived in fine form. Their gestational ages varied from 42 days early to 14 days overdue for 15 sets, with 7 sets arriving 21-42 days early, 2 sets 7 days early and 6 sets term or overdue; 2 dates were unknown and one set I don't have that information. I am also currently waiting for statistics from The Farm where Ina May Gaskin and her team of midwives have delivered twins. I am aware of current hospital practice of rushing the second baby, usually then born by c/section, but in the last year I have heard about 2 sets born normally at our local large teaching hospital, so it does happen and there is hope, particularly if you are armed with your own midwife, and are well informed. Good luck Yvette and I hope this information helps, Sue Cookson -Original Message-[Ken Ward] *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of *Lindsay Yvette *Sent:* Thursday, 26 May 2005 3:26 PM *To:* ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au *Subject:* [ozmidwifery] monochorionic diamniotic twins birth in a public hospital, hopefully vaginal. Hello list. I've subscribed so I can submit details of my situation for anyone who wants to respond, and so I can keep an eye out for anything that comes up about twins births. I'm not a midwife or anything, so I hope it's ok to do this. I'm a public patient at Box Hill hospital in Melbourne, and due to have twin girls on 5th Sept, or by 38 weeks which is 22nd Aug. They are identical, sharing a placenta but each in her own amniotic sac. I want a vaginal birth without unnecessary intervention provided this is safe. I'm looking for any advice, information, studies, articles, comments etc relevant to my situation. I'm having ultrasounds every 2 weeks, and no signs of TTTS as yet, though their sizes have been varying. The baby girls have been fine and are kicking and wiggling nicely. The hospital has a 'know your midwife' thing, so I know and am happy with the midwife who will be attending me. She was with me for the birth of my 11 month old son at the same hospital. I'll also have my husband and a support person with me, and hopefully my 2 daughters, 12 8. My daughters were both born at home, and all 3 of my births so far have been vaginal with no drugs or intervention. I'm 39 and in good health, no GD, no high BP ever, no health probs. I'm 5'6 and 75 kg at 25 weeks. I've always gone 13 hours from the very first contraction, and the waters have always broken 1-3 hours before the birth, with the head never engaging until well into labour. My son turned himself from posterior a couple of hours before birth while I was lying on my side. The hospital tell me I will have one of the 11 consultants attending me, and he/she will be running it, but my midwife may get to catch the first baby. They say I must be induced if I get past 38 weeks, and they very much want me to have an epidural incase of needing to reach in for the second baby. They don't want more than 10 mins between babies. One Ob I saw said no vaginal births are done for this type of pg, one I've seen since then says it can be attempted if 1st one presents head down, but 65% of all twins in Melb are born by c/section. I've asked about having the epi in with no drugs in it, but it seems it depends
[ozmidwifery] monochorionic diamniotic twins birth in a public hospital, hopefully vaginal.
Hello list. I've subscribed so I can submit details of my situation for anyone who wants to respond, and so I can keep an eye out for anything that comes up about twins births. I'm not a midwife or anything, so I hope it's ok to do this. I'm a public patient at Box Hill hospital in Melbourne, and due to have twin girls on 5th Sept, or by 38 weeks which is 22nd Aug. They are identical, sharing a placenta but each in her own amniotic sac. I want a vaginal birth without unnecessary intervention provided this is safe. I'm looking for any advice, information, studies, articles, comments etc relevant to my situation. I'm having ultrasounds every 2 weeks, and no signs of TTTS as yet, though their sizes have been varying. The baby girls have been fine and are kicking and wiggling nicely. The hospital has a 'know your midwife' thing, so I know and am happy with the midwife who will be attending me. She was with me for the birth of my 11 month old son at the same hospital. I'll also have my husband and a support person with me, and hopefully my 2 daughters, 12 8. My daughters were both born at home, and all 3 of my births so far have been vaginal with no drugs or intervention. I'm 39 and in good health, no GD, no high BP ever, no health probs. I'm 5'6" and 75 kg at 25 weeks. I've always gone 13 hours from the very first contraction, and the waters have always broken 1-3 hours before the birth, with the head never engaging until well into labour.My sonturned himself from posterior a couple of hours before birth while I was lying on my side. The hospital tell me I will have one of the 11 consultants attending me, and he/she will be running it, but my midwife may get to catch the first baby. They say I must be induced if I get past 38 weeks, and they very much want me to have an epidural incase of needing to reach in for the second baby. They don't want more than 10 mins between babies. One Ob I saw said no vaginal births are done for this type of pg, one I've seen since then says it can be attempted if 1st one presents head down, but 65% of all twins in Melb are born by c/section. I've asked about having the epi in with no drugs in it, but it seems it depends on the views/wishes of whichever anaesthetist happens to be on when I get there. If I go earlier than 32-34 weeks I get transferred to Monash, they've told me over the phone that I would get a c/section for monochorionic diamniotic twins. My impression is that changing hospitals will not increase my chances of a vaginal birth, I'm just going to have to be very well informed prepared to refuse treatment if necessary. Getting info from the hospital is extremely difficult. The Ob appointments are 10 minutes, they just don't have time to discuss. The midwife doesn't have the same time problems I've decided to just see her have the u/s not bother with most of the Ob appointments as they just don't have time to talk to me. I've written to the head of obstetrics though, requesting a proper appointment just for the purpose of discussing the birth. I feel it's important to get their take on things so I know what I'll be dealing with. Also, because I have to have a consultant present, I want to arrive at the hospital early so I know who I'm dealing with and have time to discuss with them while I'm not in strong contractions. AMBA don't seem to have any birth info, butI've been to one of their ante natal nights anyway just to start meeting people. I've been reading all the twins birth stories I can find, but have not found any info about differences in types of twins pregnancies, ie sharing a placenta increasing the risks, or discussion on when c/section is really needed and when it isn't. I'm trying to understand what the risks are that we'll be looking for. What can happen with cord prolapse and how can you anticipate it? Just to clarify, my twins are monochorionic, diamniotic - 2 sacs, 1 placenta. They are not mo mo twins, where cord prolapse cord issues in general would be much more of a risk, but I gather cord prolapse is still a risk with diamniotic twins as there is more chance of waters breaking before the head has engaged for the first, (I'm not sure why), and for the second baby waters breaking while she is still high up or breech or transverse.Zygosity was diagnosed at the 12 week ultrasound, andI've had u/s every 2 weeks since 18 weeks, so there's no uncertainty about the 1 placenta 2 sacs.Might cutting the first cord cause extra blood flow to the second baby and thatcreates a time limit? What can happen with the second baby moving into position and coming down? If the contractions don't come back fast enough I'll be under time pressure, if they come too fast they'll be worried about the placenta separating or the 2nd baby getting squashed into a bad position. What is the problem with time between babies and how does it relate to the type of twins you are having? I'm wo
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: [UCbirthnews] New DVD - Unassisted Homebirth of Twins!
Perhaps Andrea Robertson could you look into getting it in stock. I'd be happy to review it for you. Hows that for hopeful Andrera Quanchi On Thursday, September 30, 2004, at 01:53 PM, Abby and Toby wrote: Thought this would be an amazing resource! Love Abby >>>Dear Friends, I'm thrilled to announce that I've just added a wonderful new DVD to my bookstore: Psalm Zoya - The Unassisted Homebirth of Our Twins, a film by Mindy Goorchenko. After watching this film, I immediately ordered 20 copies. Then I went back and watched it two more times. It's THAT good! Mindy caught her first baby herself, and a few minutes later, caught her second one - who came out easily, feet first! This is truly spectacular footage. Although the film is only 20 minutes long, it is well worth the money. Available in DVD only, it sells for $39.99 plus $6 postage and handling. Total: $45.99. To order by credit card call 303-444-4881 (9am-9pm Mountain time) or visit my bookstore for more options - http://unassistedchildbirth.com/books.htm That's all for now. Please feel free to forward this message. Love, Laura Laura Shanley Bornfree! The Unassisted Childbirth Page http://UnassistedChildbirth.com
[ozmidwifery] Re: New DVD - Unassisted Homebirth of Twins!
Hi Andrea, Yes, I am onto it already - not sure when we can get copies but I will let everyone know. We are often asked for good videos of natural twin births, so this might be just the one! Regards, Andrea (Robertson) At 12:02 AM 1/10/2004, you wrote: Perhaps Andrea Robertson could you look into getting it in stock. I'd be happy to review it for you. Hows that for hopeful Andrera Quanchi On Thursday, September 30, 2004, at 01:53 PM, Abby and Toby wrote: Thought this would be an amazing resource! Love Abby Dear Friends, I'm thrilled to announce that I've just added a wonderful new DVD to my bookstore: Psalm Zoya - The Unassisted Homebirth of Our Twins, a film by Mindy Goorchenko. - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Fw: [UCbirthnews] New DVD - Unassisted Homebirth of Twins!
Thought this would be an amazing resource! Love Abby Dear Friends, I'm thrilled to announce that I've just added a wonderful new DVD to my bookstore: "Psalm Zoya - The Unassisted Homebirth of Our Twins," a film by Mindy Goorchenko. After watching this film, I immediately ordered 20 copies. Then I went back and watched it two more times. It's THAT good! Mindy caught her first baby herself, and a few minutes later, caught her second one - who came out easily, feet first! This is truly spectacular footage. Although the film is only 20 minutes long, it is well worth the money.Available in DVD only, itsells for $39.99 plus $6 postage and handling. Total: $45.99. To order by credit card call 303-444-4881 (9am-9pm Mountain time)or visit my bookstore for more options - http://unassistedchildbirth.com/books.htm That's all for now. Please feel free to forward this message. Love, Laura Laura ShanleyBornfree! The Unassisted Childbirth Pagehttp://UnassistedChildbirth.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus
Syntocinon infusion has been linked with greater risk of rupture. I
am a bit restrictive with the women I care for... "Go into labour spontaneously,
labour birth." Otherwise have a repeat C/S. It helps their resolve
too. Thereis too much research data pointing to inductions and
augmentations increasing the risks of rupture for me to be comfortable with it.
MM
I think once we switched to lower dose epidural
medication it became acceptable to combine epidurals with VBAC, even with
Sytocinon infusion
Kirsten
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Chapman
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 5:09
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/
twins/lotus
The last few places I have worked also used epidurals with VBAC. Just
need to monitor properly. In the old days they said an epidural could not be
used as the woman would not have the pain cues to impending uterine rupture.
At least that is what I was told.
Cheers
Judymh [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Where I work, twins are encouraged but not
forced to have epidurals and EDB is used liberally whether VBAC or not...
I remember when I was a student (20yrs) they were thingy about EDB in
VBAC but not for at least the past 15 years- no increase in rupture etc.
What is the reason for limiting them in VBAC? Just out of curiosity.
As our policy is VBAC regardless of mothers
wishes, in such a case we wouldplan an attempt at least for a labour
at term, especially after a previous normal birth.
Monica
- Original Message -
From:
JoFromOz
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004
1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/
twins/lotus
Where I work, twins automatically have epidurals,
and epidurals are contraindicated in VBAC's...
I can look it up for you on Monday though - I have
the weekend off.
Jo
Original Message From: Mary
MurphyTo: listSent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 9:42
AMSubject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus So far I have had no reports of studies or data re
Lotus. there are lots of pictures, anecdotal experiences,
but no data. Is it out there? or is it so infrequent
that no one has done the work. As we would expect, the baby in
question is healthy non septic. Re VBAC: Another
midwife's client had a C/S for her first birth, a vaginal birth
for her second and is now pregnant with twins. She wants
to have a vaginal birth with her twins later this year.
What do you know about the policies in hospitals for this
situation? All feedback gratefully accepted. thanks,
Mary M -- Babies are Born... Pizzas are
delivered.
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo!
Movies.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus
Sorry, should have been more clear. I am accustomed to EDB meaning epidural block and EDC for expected date of confinement- archaic I guess but there you go. Monica - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus Please, what is EDB? We use those initials for Expected Date of Birth. What state are you in Monica? Thanks, MM Where I work, twins are encouraged but not forced to have epidurals and EDB is used liberally whether VBAC or not... I remember when I was a student (20yrs) they were thingy about EDB in VBAC but not for at least the past 15 years- no increase in rupture etc. What is the reason for limiting them in VBAC? Just out of curiosity. As our policy is VBAC regardless of mothers wishes, in such a case we wouldplan an attempt at least for a labour at term, especially after a previous normal birth. Monica .
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus
I know the statistics show an increased risk of uterine rupture when using Syntocinon infusion after previous uterine surgery. Certainly it is better to labour spontaneously. As I mentioned before, where I work (teaching hospital, Sydney) there is an almost bullying insistence on attempting VBAC and merely failing to spontaneously labour is not an acceptable reason for a repeat LSCS. It may sound as if I advocate repeat caesars but I don't, I just find it objectionable when women's preferences and wishes are totally disregarded. On the other hand, the majority of our VBAC women do have successful vaginal births, something like 70%- so maybe the ends justify the means? It is awful to be looking after a woman who makes it very clear that the circumstances she is in are totally opposed to her wishes and to feel like an accomplice in the removal of her authority over herself. I don't know if I've made that very clear. It's like some people are with breastfeeding- you can do whatever you like as long as it's what I think you should do. Anyway, to get back to the epidural and uterine rupture, I haven't seen very many and some had blocks and some didn't but the other signs- bright pv bleeding, non reassuring ctg, changed uterine activity etc, preceded or occurred with the pain especially where there was a uterine scar. I hadn't realized the fear of wound dehiscence was still a factor in availability of epidurals. Monica - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus Syntocinon infusion has been linked with greater risk of rupture. I am a bit restrictive with the women I care for... Go into labour spontaneously, labour birth. Otherwise have a repeat C/S. It helps their resolve too. There is too much research data pointing to inductions and augmentations increasing the risks of rupture for me to be comfortable with it. MM I think once we switched to lower dose epidural medication it became acceptable to combine epidurals with VBAC, even with Sytocinon infusion Kirsten - Original Message - From: Judy Chapman To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus The last few places I have worked also used epidurals with VBAC. Just need to monitor properly. In the old days they said an epidural could not be used as the woman would not have the pain cues to impending uterine rupture. At least that is what I was told. Cheers Judy mh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where I work, twins are encouraged but not forced to have epidurals and EDB is used liberally whether VBAC or not... I remember when I was a student (20yrs) they were thingy about EDB in VBAC but not for at least the past 15 years- no increase in rupture etc. What is the reason for limiting them in VBAC? Just out of curiosity. As our policy is VBAC regardless of mothers wishes, in such a case we would plan an attempt at least for a labour at term, especially after a previous normal birth. Monica - Original Message - From: JoFromOz To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus Where I work, twins automatically have epidurals, and epidurals are contraindicated in VBAC's... I can look it up for you on Monday though - I have the weekend off. Jo Original Message From: Mary Murphy To: list Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus So far I have had no reports of studies or data re Lotus. there are lots of pictures, anecdotal experiences, but no data. Is it out there? or is it so infrequent that no one has done the work. As we would expect, the baby in question is healthy non septic. Re VBAC: Another midwife's client had a C/S for her first birth, a vaginal birth for her second and is now pregnant with twins. She wants to have a vaginal birth with her twins later this year. What do you know about the policies in hospitals for this situation? All feedback gratefully accepted. thanks, Mary M -- Babies are Born... Pizzas are delivered. Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus
Where I work, twins are encouraged but not forced to have epidurals and EDB is used liberally whether VBAC or not... I remember when I was a student (20yrs) they were thingy about EDB in VBAC but not for at least the past 15 years- no increase in rupture etc. What is the reason for limiting them in VBAC? Just out of curiosity. As our policy is VBAC regardless of mothers wishes, in such a case we wouldplan an attempt at least for a labour at term, especially after a previous normal birth. Monica - Original Message - From: JoFromOz To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus Where I work, twins automatically have epidurals, and epidurals are contraindicated in VBAC's... I can look it up for you on Monday though - I have the weekend off. Jo Original Message From: Mary MurphyTo: listSent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 9:42 AMSubject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus So far I have had no reports of studies or data re Lotus. there are lots of pictures, anecdotal experiences, but no data. Is it out there? or is it so infrequent that no one has done the work. As we would expect, the baby in question is healthy non septic. Re VBAC: Another midwife's client had a C/S for her first birth, a vaginal birth for her second and is now pregnant with twins. She wants to have a vaginal birth with her twins later this year. What do you know about the policies in hospitals for this situation? All feedback gratefully accepted. thanks, Mary M -- Babies are Born... Pizzas are delivered.
[ozmidwifery] VBAC/ twins/lotus
So far I have had no reports of studies or data re Lotus. there are lots of pictures, anecdotal experiences, but no data. Is it out there? or is it so infrequent that no one has done the work. As we would expect, the baby in question is healthy non septic. Re VBAC: Another midwife's client had a C/S for her first birth, a vaginal birth for her second and is now pregnant with twins. She wants to have a vaginal birth with her twins later this year. What do you know about the policies in hospitals for this situation? All feedback gratefully accepted. thanks, Mary M
Re: [ozmidwifery] twins at home
Wonderful, strong woman! Good on her! Jayne Just had to tell you about an amazing woman who birthed her twins at home in QLD yesterday evening. Fantastic! She is incredible. Strong labour for maybe 2 hours, no pushing to speak of for twin 1, twin 2 born 40 mins later - a bit harder as she had her hand coming first. Placenta came 20 mins later, blood loss 700 mls. Twin 1 a boy 3400g, twin 2 a girl 3500. She had had her other 2 children at home and saw no reason not to with these 2, so organised 2 midwives. Older children watched twin 1 but not interested in twin 2. Had a friend from across the road helping who was just in her element and had not seen a birth apart from her own - she was stoked. Leigh
[ozmidwifery] twins at home
Just had to tell you about an amazing woman who birthed her twins at home in QLD yesterday evening. Fantastic! She is incredible. Strong labour for maybe 2 hours, no pushing to speak of for twin 1, twin 2 born 40 mins later - a bit harder as she had her hand coming first. Placenta came 20 mins later, blood loss 700 mls. Twin 1 a boy 3400g, twin 2 a girl 3500. She had had her other 2 children at home and saw no reason not to with these 2, so organised 2 midwives. Older children watched twin 1 but not interested in twin 2. Had a friend from across the road helping who was just in her element and had not seen a birth apart from her own - she was stoked. Leigh - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: list Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 10:57 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] PPH From Midwifery Today E-News: At the beginning of my practice as a midwife, we had a homebirth client who was expecting her fourth baby. She had hemorrhaged badly after each of her prior hospital births. I called [midwife/herbalist] Lisa Goldstein and asked her, expecting a negative answer, if there was anything we could suggest so this woman would not bleed at her homebirth. Lisa's one-word answer: "Alfalfa." Alfalfa's roots go extremely deep into the soil; it contains every vitamin and mineral known to man; and it is a good source of vitamin K, a natural blood clotter. The mom began to take alfalfa religiously and had completely normalscant evenbleeding postpartum (she had a wonderful homebirth!). Since then I have learned quite a bit more about avoiding postpartum heavy blood loss. During the past 11 years, it has been extremely rare for a client of mine to bleed seriously. Most of my clients choose to try the following suggestions, and nearly all have had minimal, normal bleeding. I keep medications on hand but throw them out and replace them, unused. Here is the crux of what we do: Check the mom's hemoglobin at 28 weeks and again at 36 weeks; use natural means to help her avoid anemia. Recommend an excellent multiple vitamin from NF formulas (available through birth supply firms), Spectrum 2C, at the full 8-per-day dose, throughout pregnancy. The number of capsules seems large, but the beneficial minerals, etc., are bulky. (many prenatals simply don't supply much in their one-a-day form). Require that women take alfalfa, 812 tablets per day, any brand. For other reasons, especially the formation of the baby's brain, I recommend taking fish oils (4 capsules per day) or vegetarian DHA capsules. It is a lot of pills, but think of it as the nutrients your food is missing. I suggest taking half of them in the morning and half in the evening. Bagging one month's worth in small ziplocks makes it easier. Keep them where you will remember to take them (e.g., where you brush your teeth). I have been able to compare my methods with those of other caregivers because I also worked in a birth center and assisted other midwives whose clients have not had the benefit of these protective components. I have seen some serious bleeding in women who don't use these methods. Even then, it is usually stopped with herbs. My favorite is 30 drops (three droppersful) of Lady's Mantle tincture, which stops bleeding "right now"! The Web site, www.gentlebirth.org/archives/, gives other midwives' suggestions. I assume you will eat healthy food and take a good brisk walk (3045 minutes) each day. It would be great if you found someone with a calmer approach to placenta birthing! Julie Martin, CPM, NHCM
[ozmidwifery] twins at home
Just had to tell you about an amazing woman who birthed her twins at home in QLD yesterday evening. Fantastic! She is incredible. Strong labour for maybe 2 hours, no pushing to speak of for twin 1, twin 2 born 40 mins later - a bit harder as she had her hand coming first. Placenta came 20 mins later, blood loss 700 mls. Twin 1 a boy 3400g, twin 2 a girl 3500. She had had her other 2 children at home and saw no reason not to with these 2, so organised 2 midwives. Older children watched twin 1 but not interested in twin 2. Had a friend from across the road helping who was just in her element and had not seen a birth apart from her own - she was stoked. Leigh - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: list Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 10:57 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] PPH From Midwifery Today E-News: At the beginning of my practice as a midwife, we had a homebirth client who was expecting her fourth baby. She had hemorrhaged badly after each of her prior hospital births. I called [midwife/herbalist] Lisa Goldstein and asked her, expecting a negative answer, if there was anything we could suggest so this woman would not bleed at her homebirth. Lisa's one-word answer: "Alfalfa." Alfalfa's roots go extremely deep into the soil; it contains every vitamin and mineral known to man; and it is a good source of vitamin K, a natural blood clotter. The mom began to take alfalfa religiously and had completely normalscant evenbleeding postpartum (she had a wonderful homebirth!). Since then I have learned quite a bit more about avoiding postpartum heavy blood loss. During the past 11 years, it has been extremely rare for a client of mine to bleed seriously. Most of my clients choose to try the following suggestions, and nearly all have had minimal, normal bleeding. I keep medications on hand but throw them out and replace them, unused. Here is the crux of what we do: Check the mom's hemoglobin at 28 weeks and again at 36 weeks; use natural means to help her avoid anemia. Recommend an excellent multiple vitamin from NF formulas (available through birth supply firms), Spectrum 2C, at the full 8-per-day dose, throughout pregnancy. The number of capsules seems large, but the beneficial minerals, etc., are bulky. (many prenatals simply don't supply much in their one-a-day form). Require that women take alfalfa, 812 tablets per day, any brand. For other reasons, especially the formation of the baby's brain, I recommend taking fish oils (4 capsules per day) or vegetarian DHA capsules. It is a lot of pills, but think of it as the nutrients your food is missing. I suggest taking half of them in the morning and half in the evening. Bagging one month's worth in small ziplocks makes it easier. Keep them where you will remember to take them (e.g., where you brush your teeth). I have been able to compare my methods with those of other caregivers because I also worked in a birth center and assisted other midwives whose clients have not had the benefit of these protective components. I have seen some serious bleeding in women who don't use these methods. Even then, it is usually stopped with herbs. My favorite is 30 drops (three droppersful) of Lady's Mantle tincture, which stops bleeding "right now"! The Web site, www.gentlebirth.org/archives/, gives other midwives' suggestions. I assume you will eat healthy food and take a good brisk walk (3045 minutes) each day. It would be great if you found someone with a calmer approach to placenta birthing! Julie Martin, CPM, NHCM
Re: [ozmidwifery]So the twins plot thickens
Yep Terry, frustrating is truely the word. The OB is leaving NO option and of course the couple wants the best for their babies. I guess luckily I will be at their birth in Freemasons private mid January and I will be putting out for everything to go beautifully. Only positive intention going out there. My one plus is that, thanks to all of you for sending the great info, my mum is now very relaxed about the whole thing. I hope the outcome is a good one for you too Terry. Diane - Original Message - From: Child Birth Information Service To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]So the twins plot thickens Hi, I have a lady going through the exact same scenario in Hobart, its so frustrating Terry Stockdale Independent Midwife
Re: [ozmidwifery]So the twins plot thickens
Hi, I have a lady going through the exact same scenario in Hobart, its so frustrating Terry Stockdale Independent Midwife - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]So the twins plot thickens dianne can u contact me of list - Original Message - jan From: Diane Gardner To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]So the twins plot thickens Thought you all might like to know what is happening with my twins mum. Thankyou so much for your input. When the couple came again last night my mum was so much more relaxed. Your emails helped her immensley and she was back to the nice relaxed mum again. Even very confident as well. Her husband has been attending the last coupleOb visits with her and the Ob hasn't been as intimidating when he was there. Apparently last visit on Monday he got out of his chair and went to the door 3 times to usher them out, probably thought he had finished so they had to be too. Her husband piped up and said we haven't finished asking you questions yet. He sat back down in his chair. Yea good on ya Dad! He is still telling her that he wants her to have an epidural early so that he can manually turn the second twin if need be thus avoiding a cs. Keeps saying that he has only ever needed to do a cs once and has been able to successfully turn the other baby to be born naturally. (his idea of naturally is quite a bit different to mine - apparently his naturally means vaginally). With her hubbyand myself at thebirth she has 2 labour ward guardians in case he tries to pull any swiftys (I will be very aware of the medical needs though if they should arise). Did I read somewhere on this site that you can support the uterus after the first twin is born so that the second is in a better position and less likely to go transverse or breech? This has been very much a learning experience for me and thanks to you guys I have a much better understanding of twin births now. The Ob was saying that there are only 6 Ob's in Melbourne that will "allow" a natural birth. How sad! I certainly understand why mums are so pleased to have home births. Why do we have to fight s hard to have what is rightfully ours. A beautitful birth like nature intended. I am not being naive when I say that as I know that sometimes circumstances arise but gees..do those circumstances have to be so programmed in. Being an NLP practitionerI know only too well how we are programmed for things to happen and they are not always a positive programming. Diane
Re: [ozmidwifery]So the twins plot thickens
dianne can u contact me of list - Original Message - jan From: Diane Gardner To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]So the twins plot thickens Thought you all might like to know what is happening with my twins mum. Thankyou so much for your input. When the couple came again last night my mum was so much more relaxed. Your emails helped her immensley and she was back to the nice relaxed mum again. Even very confident as well. Her husband has been attending the last coupleOb visits with her and the Ob hasn't been as intimidating when he was there. Apparently last visit on Monday he got out of his chair and went to the door 3 times to usher them out, probably thought he had finished so they had to be too. Her husband piped up and said we haven't finished asking you questions yet. He sat back down in his chair. Yea good on ya Dad! He is still telling her that he wants her to have an epidural early so that he can manually turn the second twin if need be thus avoiding a cs. Keeps saying that he has only ever needed to do a cs once and has been able to successfully turn the other baby to be born naturally. (his idea of naturally is quite a bit different to mine - apparently his naturally means vaginally). With her hubbyand myself at thebirth she has 2 labour ward guardians in case he tries to pull any swiftys (I will be very aware of the medical needs though if they should arise). Did I read somewhere on this site that you can support the uterus after the first twin is born so that the second is in a better position and less likely to go transverse or breech? This has been very much a learning experience for me and thanks to you guys I have a much better understanding of twin births now. The Ob was saying that there are only 6 Ob's in Melbourne that will "allow" a natural birth. How sad! I certainly understand why mums are so pleased to have home births. Why do we have to fight s hard to have what is rightfully ours. A beautitful birth like nature intended. I am not being naive when I say that as I know that sometimes circumstances arise but gees..do those circumstances have to be so programmed in. Being an NLP practitionerI know only too well how we are programmed for things to happen and they are not always a positive programming. Diane
Re: [ozmidwifery]So the twins plot thickens
Only 6 Obs in Melbourne- what a load of crock. This man certainly has an entertaining use of statistics. Maybe he only knows of 6 Obs within his sphere. Melbourne is a big place Sharing your frustration Alesa Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery EducatorMelbourne - Original Message - From: Diane Gardner To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]So the twins plot thickens Thought you all might like to know what is happening with my twins mum. Thankyou so much for your input. When the couple came again last night my mum was so much more relaxed. Your emails helped her immensley and she was back to the nice relaxed mum again. Even very confident as well. Her husband has been attending the last coupleOb visits with her and the Ob hasn't been as intimidating when he was there. Apparently last visit on Monday he got out of his chair and went to the door 3 times to usher them out, probably thought he had finished so they had to be too. Her husband piped up and said we haven't finished asking you questions yet. He sat back down in his chair. Yea good on ya Dad! He is still telling her that he wants her to have an epidural early so that he can manually turn the second twin if need be thus avoiding a cs. Keeps saying that he has only ever needed to do a cs once and has been able to successfully turn the other baby to be born naturally. (his idea of naturally is quite a bit different to mine - apparently his naturally means vaginally). With her hubbyand myself at thebirth she has 2 labour ward guardians in case he tries to pull any swiftys (I will be very aware of the medical needs though if they should arise). Did I read somewhere on this site that you can support the uterus after the first twin is born so that the second is in a better position and less likely to go transverse or breech? This has been very much a learning experience for me and thanks to you guys I have a much better understanding of twin births now. The Ob was saying that there are only 6 Ob's in Melbourne that will "allow" a natural birth. How sad! I certainly understand why mums are so pleased to have home births. Why do we have to fight s hard to have what is rightfully ours. A beautitful birth like nature intended. I am not being naive when I say that as I know that sometimes circumstances arise but gees..do those circumstances have to be so programmed in. Being an NLP practitionerI know only too well how we are programmed for things to happen and they are not always a positive programming. Diane
Re: [ozmidwifery]So the twins plot thickens
Hi Jan Do you work in Melbourne? Diane
Re: [ozmidwifery]So the twins plot thickens
Thought you all might like to know what is happening with my twins mum. Thankyou so much for your input. When the couple came again last night my mum was so much more relaxed. Your emails helped her immensley and she was back to the nice relaxed mum again. Even very confident as well. Her husband has been attending the last coupleOb visits with her and the Ob hasn't been as intimidating when he was there. Apparently last visit on Monday he got out of his chair and went to the door 3 times to usher them out, probably thought he had finished so they had to be too. Her husband piped up and said we haven't finished asking you questions yet. He sat back down in his chair. Yea good on ya Dad! He is still telling her that he wants her to have an epidural early so that he can manually turn the second twin if need be thus avoiding a cs. Keeps saying that he has only ever needed to do a cs once and has been able to successfully turn the other baby to be born naturally. (his idea of naturally is quite a bit different to mine - apparently his naturally means vaginally). With her hubbyand myself at thebirth she has 2 labour ward guardians in case he tries to pull any swiftys (I will be very aware of the medical needs though if they should arise). Did I read somewhere on this site that you can support the uterus after the first twin is born so that the second is in a better position and less likely to go transverse or breech? This has been very much a learning experience for me and thanks to you guys I have a much better understanding of twin births now. The Ob was saying that there are only 6 Ob's in Melbourne that will "allow" a natural birth. How sad! I certainly understand why mums are so pleased to have home births. Why do we have to fight s hard to have what is rightfully ours. A beautitful birth like nature intended. I am not being naive when I say that as I know that sometimes circumstances arise but gees..do those circumstances have to be so programmed in. Being an NLP practitionerI know only too well how we are programmed for things to happen and they are not always a positive programming. Diane
Re: [ozmidwifery] Twins question
Hi guys, I need to ask your advice again if you don't mind. I saw my twins couple again tonight and the mum was very tense. They had just gone to see their Ob and he discussed the birth with them. 1. He has told them that they must head for the hospital as soon as she is in labour as twins usually arrive in around 4 hours Is this correct or an Ob's imagination gone wild. 2. He also told her that she would be given an epidural when she was at 4cms and forceps would be used to deliver both babies quickly. 3. He said she would be induced early because the babies at this stage are already bigger than average size, he quoted 5lb 11oz (she has 6 weeks to go) and asked them to think about a date to be delivered. He is really programming in an early arrival for them and says it every time they visit him. How much of this is truth and how much is B.S This is only my 2nd twins couple but boy am I learning quickly. The first had no probs whatsoever but then they were delivered in a country hospital. Many thanks Diane Gardner -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Twins question
All sounds like advance preparation for a C/S to me. MM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Twins question
It certainly sounds like the ob is rubbing his hands together waiting for his c/section fee!! Probably by his management, his twins do arrive in 4 hours, hauled out or cut out. I've been around probably 6 sets of twins in my time, and also have John Stevenson's data on 12 sets he was involved with - mostly all at home. The labours are as unpredictable and unique as any labour is, but there is a bit of a pattern to the time between the births of the two. In John's 12 sets, the majority of second babies arrived within 20 minutes of the first. An hour later was the next usual time between, and then there were a few further apart than that. In one of the sets I was around, the babies were born 23 hours apart!! As far as size of babies and length of pregnancy goes, there is the usual variation, with quite a number of twins arriving 3 weeks early, but also some going over term. The first set I was privileged to attend were born at 42 weeks, and were 7lb 2oz and 8lb 1oz. John's sets had similar ranges. Sounds like this poor woman will need heaps of work to balance her fears after each visit to the ob. Better still, she should ditch him altogether or he will continue to undermine her trust and faith in herself totally. Is she hoping to birth them normally? Hope this helps, Sue Hi guys, I need to ask your advice again if you don't mind. I saw my twins couple again tonight and the mum was very tense. They had just gone to see their Ob and he discussed the birth with them. 1. He has told them that they must head for the hospital as soon as she is in labour as twins usually arrive in around 4 hours Is this correct or an Ob's imagination gone wild. 2. He also told her that she would be given an epidural when she was at 4cms and forceps would be used to deliver both babies quickly. 3. He said she would be induced early because the babies at this stage are already bigger than average size, he quoted 5lb 11oz (she has 6 weeks to go) and asked them to think about a date to be delivered. He is really programming in an early arrival for them and says it every time they visit him. How much of this is truth and how much is B.S This is only my 2nd twins couple but boy am I learning quickly. The first had no probs whatsoever but then they were delivered in a country hospital. Many thanks Diane Gardner -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Twins question
Hi Dianne, I'm not sure whther it could help, but my book Parenting By Heart has a beautiful twins birth story(plus the awful lead up) - mum (a GP) had her first baby at a birth centre and was desperately upset to discover that risk management for twins (her next pregnancy) was an epidural and forceps. Her partner was studying obstetrics at the time and she had called every ob in Melbourne hearing pretty much the same story. By mid pregnancy she couldnt stop crying she was so upset, then luckily discovered Bruce Sutherland -chose her own midwife and ended up with a natural birth, acupuncture administered by hubby for pain relief. Its a lovely first person story that may ring some bells and help inspire a bit of confidence to your client - she already has the midwife! Perhaps because both these parents are doctors themselves it may help her see that all medical people dont necessarily take a medical approach and if she feels she would like to speak with this mum I am sure she would be happy to offer support.. Pinky www.pinky-mychild.com - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Twins question It certainly sounds like the ob is rubbing his hands together waiting for his c/section fee!! Probably by his management, his twins do arrive in 4 hours, hauled out or cut out. I've been around probably 6 sets of twins in my time, and also have John Stevenson's data on 12 sets he was involved with - mostly all at home. The labours are as unpredictable and unique as any labour is, but there is a bit of a pattern to the time between the births of the two. In John's 12 sets, the majority of second babies arrived within 20 minutes of the first. An hour later was the next usual time between, and then there were a few further apart than that. In one of the sets I was around, the babies were born 23 hours apart!! As far as size of babies and length of pregnancy goes, there is the usual variation, with quite a number of twins arriving 3 weeks early, but also some going over term. The first set I was privileged to attend were born at 42 weeks, and were 7lb 2oz and 8lb 1oz. John's sets had similar ranges. Sounds like this poor woman will need heaps of work to balance her fears after each visit to the ob. Better still, she should ditch him altogether or he will continue to undermine her trust and faith in herself totally. Is she hoping to birth them normally? Hope this helps, Sue Hi guys, I need to ask your advice again if you don't mind. I saw my twins couple again tonight and the mum was very tense. They had just gone to see their Ob and he discussed the birth with them. 1. He has told them that they must head for the hospital as soon as she is in labour as twins usually arrive in around 4 hours Is this correct or an Ob's imagination gone wild. 2. He also told her that she would be given an epidural when she was at 4cms and forceps would be used to deliver both babies quickly. 3. He said she would be induced early because the babies at this stage are already bigger than average size, he quoted 5lb 11oz (she has 6 weeks to go) and asked them to think about a date to be delivered. He is really programming in an early arrival for them and says it every time they visit him. How much of this is truth and how much is B.S This is only my 2nd twins couple but boy am I learning quickly. The first had no probs whatsoever but then they were delivered in a country hospital. Many thanks Diane Gardner -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Twins question
Dear Diane, I don't know if anecdotal evidence is what you are after, but my two friends who have had twins have both been post term. One was very angry after the event at being actively managed, and the other had a completely natural birth. The first was with the NHS (UK) and led by an ob, the second had an independent midwife who had very good relations with the hospital. Apparently when they got to hospital (which was very late she laboured mostly in her kitchen) the staff were itching to get into the room, but the midwife would only allow one other midwife into the room and told everyone else to stay outside. The other part about the weight of the babies must be questioned as the ultrasound is remarkably inaccurate at guessing weight of babies, isn't it? There is a good story on www.homebirth.org.uk in the stories section written by Emma Barker, although it is a uk story a lot of it looks the same kind of thing as here, and certainly sounds the same sort of thing that your client is going through. Hope this helps, Claire Saxby From: Diane Gardner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Twins question Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:07:56 +1100 Hi guys, I need to ask your advice again if you don't mind. I saw my twins couple again tonight and the mum was very tense. They had just gone to see their Ob and he discussed the birth with them. 1. He has told them that they must head for the hospital as soon as she is in labour as twins usually arrive in around 4 hours Is this correct or an Ob's imagination gone wild. 2. He also told her that she would be given an epidural when she was at 4cms and forceps would be used to deliver both babies quickly. 3. He said she would be induced early because the babies at this stage are already bigger than average size, he quoted 5lb 11oz (she has 6 weeks to go) and asked them to think about a date to be delivered. He is really programming in an early arrival for them and says it every time they visit him. How much of this is truth and how much is B.S This is only my 2nd twins couple but boy am I learning quickly. The first had no probs whatsoever but then they were delivered in a country hospital. Many thanks Diane Gardner -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] FW: help with twins
-Original Message- From: lyncottee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 11 July 2003 5:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: help with twins Dear List, My nanny agency has just had a call from a mother with 2 week-old twins in the East Brighton area (VIC). She really needs some help with them, the Caesar scar, lactation and all the other issues surrounding a multiple birth. She needs someone for the next month from about midnight to 5 am to help with the feeds for about three nights a week. All the appropriately qualified people on my books are fully booked at the moment but Id still really like to help her. Im not seeking to make any profit from this, I just know that she needs some help, as she sounds exhausted. Can anyone assist? Regards, Lyn Cottee Starlight Angels -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Andrea Quanchi Sent: Friday, 11 July 2003 1:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] whats happening ? Lynne, My thoughts on the not lactating are ? an ultrasound to make sure there is not some placenta left behind. I do remember reading something about Mg So4 having this affect but can't recall where. Will let you know if I can find it. Andrea Q On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 07:14 AM, Lynne Staff wrote: Hi Jan Must be something in the water - I had3 t/f to hosp as well in the past 2 months. One - a primigravida - C/B after BP shot through the roof antenatally and SROM at 37 weeks. She did labour, but for whatever reason, her body did not open, and her BP sneaking up higher and higher despite Mg So4 and hydrallazine. Home now but lactation did not establish and she has tried everything. Is anyone aware of MgSo4 or hydrallazine having an impact on lactation? Another had the most amazing labour - had been labouring for quite some time before she called (as she and partner had been happy working together). First baby. After some time I asked if I could examine her - something wasn't right - she had the most awful back pain and the babe was not OP - the head VERY deep in the pelvis and had been for some weeks prior to birth. Head was +2 and covered with lower segment. Looking for cervix and finally located it very high and anterior behind the right obturator foramen. Pinhole in size and the lower segment/cervix paper thin. No wonder she had this dreadful backache. I began to massage the tine hole in her cervix very gently - within 5 mins had opened to 3-4. Another 2 hrs later, still awful backache (imagine the stretch on her posterior ligaments), and still the same. Some more gentle massage and the cervix opened to 5-6. Into bath, but backache absolutely unbearable after another hour. Penney asked me to massage again, but my short little fingers could only coax it to 8 where it stayed for the next hour. She decided to go to hosp for some pain relief (!), and when we arrived I organised an epidural for her. Asked to check her again before the anaesthetist arrived, because it might change what she wanted to do - anterior lip, backache gone and she pushed out her baby after I phoned the anaesthetisit to say we wouldn't be requiring him after all. All of us crying - one exhausted but oh so triumphant woman. Third primigravida, who laboured beautifully at home and the baby just did not come past caput on view despite everything we tried. So decided to go to hosp, where she had a reseonably difficult ventouse - no analgesia (her choice) - she just wanted to have the baby. Hospital staff were wonderful in each case - women and their partners treated with respect and each of the women has come away feeling good about the transfer. Whew! Sorry about the length of this posting but needed to talk! Thanks for the opening, Jan. From another very tired and continually learing midwife - Lynne :-) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:14 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] whats happening ? bad run? unbelievable 5 births this month3 c/s trans from homebirth 1 normal del priv hosp 1 normal del home what is happening bewildered tired and yuk jan
[ozmidwifery] induction at 38 weeks for twins
Dear colleagues A client of mine PG very healthy is expecting twins . Is therre any reason for induction at 38 weeks ? non identical seperate placentas. Is there any study that suggests a 1% chance in a twin pregnacy of FDIUbetween 38 and 40 weeks and therefre an induction is manatory jan
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC of twins
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC of twins Hi all, All I can say is that obviously the ob is terrified of normal deliveries and maybe has not seen a normal twin delivery to 2 healthy babes. First baby headdown is the best scenario (for a homebirth anyway) so he should relax and enjoy the woman's power in birth. The woman on the other hand should be made aware of his lack of experience in normal twins birth and should be helped to make her decision about the birth based on all the information - any homebirth midwives around withmore twins experience than him?? Could be good support for her at this late stage... Sue Mother of 4 homeborn babes and birth attendant to many, including 3 sets of twins all born normally... Just a query...the hospital I work in has a fairly high caesarian section rate unfortunately. I admitted a woman for rest last week (at 37 weeks) who is expecting twins...second pregnancy...first was an elective luscs because of 'high head at term'- otherwise known as cephalo pelvic disproportion. This time, both twins are cephalic, first twin's presenting part is very low in the pelvis and is well and truly engaged. Is such a shame that this woman's obstetrician will not even discuss the concept of vaginal birth after caesarian don't you think? I welcome any comments anyone would like to make please. Regards, Jenny Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. Click Here http://g.msn.com/8HMFEN/2023 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC of twins
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC of twins Where I work twin births are 'done' under epidural for manilipation pf the second twin Very scary, especially when the ob panics and drags the second bubby out. what I find even scarier is that the drs do not trust women to birth, wanting to do VE's 4 hrly put up synt if dilation 'slow' and tying women up to CTG's. The real scary bit is the other midwives, including the 'pro-active' ones all think it's ok, VBACs are still referred to as 'trial of scar'. I'm getting a bit tired of being corrected for saying 'delivery' by someone who does routine ARM's and VEs. Pro active is a bit more than words. Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sue CooksonSent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:01 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC of twinsHi all,All I can say is that obviously the ob is terrified of normal deliveries and maybe has not seen a normal twin delivery to 2 healthy babes.First baby headdown is the best scenario (for a homebirth anyway) so he should relax and enjoy the woman's power in birth. The woman on the other hand should be made aware of his lack of experience in normal twins birth and should be helped to make her decision about the birth based on all the information - any homebirth midwives around withmore twins experience than him?? Could be good support for her at this late stage...SueMother of 4 homeborn babes and birth attendant to many, including 3 sets of twins all born normally... Just a query...the hospital I work in has a fairly high caesarian section rate unfortunately. I admitted a woman for rest last week (at 37 weeks) who is expecting twins...second pregnancy...first was an elective luscs because of 'high head at term'- otherwise known as cephalo pelvic disproportion. This time, both twins are cephalic, first twin's presenting part is very low in the pelvis and is well and truly engaged. Is such a shame that this woman's obstetrician will not even discuss the concept of vaginal birth after caesarian don't you think? I welcome any comments anyone would like to make please. Regards,Jenny Surf the Web without missing calls!Get MSN Broadband. Click Here http://g.msn.com/8HMFEN/2023 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
