Re: PESO - The Protestor
Shade-grown, I hope. > On 27 Nov 2015, at 14:08, knarf wrote: > > Don't worry, my coffee only contains free-range fair-trade molecules. > > Cheers, > > frank > >> On November 27, 2015 7:57:49 AM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" >> wrote: >> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 10:42 PM, frank theriault >> wrote: >> >>> What's the point then? It's like alcohol free beer... >> >> No innocent little caffeine molecules need be sacrificed. >> >> Dan Matyola >> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola > > -- > > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson > > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Ken Waller wrote: > I kinda get a kick out of it. Time for me to punt. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
No need to get defensive. I kinda get a kick out of it. That's my goal. Get the point? (:+) -Original Message- >From: "Daniel J. Matyola" Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 12:59 AM, Ken Waller wrote: >> How about them Lions? >> >> And thank you Bears for knocking off the Packers. > >I find this thread offensive! > >I'm a Jets fan. > >Dan Matyola >http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
What about your beer? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 4:06 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Don't worry, my coffee only contains free-range fair-trade molecules. Cheers, frank On November 27, 2015 7:57:49 AM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 10:42 PM, frank theriault wrote: What's the point then? It's like alcohol free beer... No innocent little caffeine molecules need be sacrificed. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Don't worry, my coffee only contains free-range fair-trade molecules. Cheers, frank On November 27, 2015 7:57:49 AM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: >On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 10:42 PM, frank theriault > wrote: > >> What's the point then? It's like alcohol free beer... > >No innocent little caffeine molecules need be sacrificed. > >Dan Matyola >http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 12:59 AM, Ken Waller wrote: > How about them Lions? > > And thank you Bears for knocking off the Packers. I find this thread offensive! I'm a Jets fan. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 10:42 PM, frank theriault wrote: > What's the point then? It's like alcohol free beer... No innocent little caffeine molecules need be sacrificed. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
How about them Lions? And thank you Bears for knocking off the Packers. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Paul Stenquist" Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go Bears! Uh, sorry is that off topic? Paul via phone On Nov 26, 2015, at 11:04 PM, Alan C wrote: https://www.organicfacts.net/health-benefits/beverage/health-benefits-of-red-rooibos-tea.html BTW, beer is very nutitional, even the alcohol free offerings. Presumably you prefer the real thing? Alan C -Original Message- From: frank theriault Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 5:42 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Caffeine free? What's the point then? It's like alcohol free beer... LOL cheers, frank -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Not only have I seen it, I've seen the sequel. On 11/26/2015 12:52 PM, Alan C wrote: If you ever get a chance to watch the movie "The God's must be Crazy" you will see that it was actually a Coke bottle which caused a San family feud. From Wikipedia: "Xi and his San tribe are "living well off the land" in the Kalahari Desert. They are happy because of their belief that the gods have provided plenty of everything, and no one among them has any wants. One day, a Coca-Cola bottle is thrown out of an aeroplane and falls to Earth unbroken. Initially, Xi's people suppose this strange artefact is a present from the gods and find many uses for it. They employ it as a craft tool, rolling pin, pestle, blow the top to make music, etc. But unlike anything that they have had before, there is only one glass bottle to go around. With everyone wanting it at once, they soon find themselves experiencing envy, anger, and even violence." Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 7:34 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor A large stone and a termite stick, and even that caused a family feud B On 26 Nov 2015, at 17:11, John wrote: Don't you want to know if he left us anything in his will? On 11/26/2015 10:39 AM, knarf wrote: While I find that subject to be mildly interesting, it's really of no consequence to me who our common ancestor is. It seems very important to you. Would you mind telling us why? Thanks, frank On November 26, 2015 10:28:06 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Identifying a common ancestor. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 3:15 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor The key to what? Cheers, frank On November 26, 2015 7:58:51 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea instead. It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans share about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population groups too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still to be unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it all wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor That won't do my gout any good. B On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because I'm curious to see where it's going. Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally closely related to both. Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an excellent read. The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest paper someone announces another candidate. I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it was. The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Can I have my surprise now? B -Original Message----- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what you find. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO -
Re: PESO - The Protestor
I guess. On 11/26/2015 12:02 PM, Bob W wrote: So just like normal work then? -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John You didn't miss anything other than a lot of shouting, confused running back & forth and standing around for hours at a time waiting for someone to get an idea. On 11/25/2015 11:43 PM, knarf wrote: No, I've never been in the military. Cheers, frank -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Hopefully Frank will answer that. Alan C -Original Message- From: Paul Stenquist Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 6:17 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go Bears! Uh, sorry is that off topic? Paul via phone On Nov 26, 2015, at 11:04 PM, Alan C wrote: https://www.organicfacts.net/health-benefits/beverage/health-benefits-of-red-rooibos-tea.html BTW, beer is very nutitional, even the alcohol free offerings. Presumably you prefer the real thing? Alan C -Original Message- From: frank theriault Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 5:42 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Caffeine free? What's the point then? It's like alcohol free beer... LOL cheers, frank --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Go Bears! Uh, sorry is that off topic? Paul via phone > On Nov 26, 2015, at 11:04 PM, Alan C wrote: > > https://www.organicfacts.net/health-benefits/beverage/health-benefits-of-red-rooibos-tea.html > > BTW, beer is very nutitional, even the alcohol free offerings. Presumably > you prefer the real thing? > > Alan C > > -Original Message- From: frank theriault > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 5:42 AM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > > Caffeine free? > > What's the point then? It's like alcohol free beer... > > LOL > > cheers, > > frank > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Caffeine free? What's the point then? It's like alcohol free beer... LOL cheers, frank On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Alan C wrote: > It's very refreshing, caffeine free & full of antioxidants. I must say it is > an acquired taste, especially if you're accustomed to Ceylon. Blends with > other herbs are available too. I drink a Rooibos/Buchu blend. Some people > like it iced. > > Alan C > > -Original Message- From: Bob W > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:31 PM > > To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' > Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor > > Not too keen on rooibos tea, but in the interests of cultural harmony I'll > take a sip. > > That 70% figure is not the figure that orthodox science quotes: > < > http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent-exhibitions/human-origins-and-cult > ural-halls/Anne-and-Bernard-Spitzer-Hall-of-Human-Origins/understanding-our- > past/dna-comparing-humans-and-chimps> > > 70% seems to be a number that some people have latched onto to try and show > that there hasn't been enough time for evolution to do its dirty work. It's > rather a bizarre thing to do because they seem to be trying to have their > cake and eat it. In order to make the argument they have to accept that > evolution works in a certain way and then show that some relatively > unimportant facts (70% versus 98.whatever %) mean the whole theory is wrong. > > B > >> -Original Message- >> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C >> Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 12:59 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >> Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea > > instead. >> >> >> It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans share >> about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population >> groups too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration > > still to >> >> be unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it all >> wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! >> >> Alan C >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Bob W-PDML >> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >> That won't do my gout any good. >> >> B >> >> > On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: >> > >> > Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. >> > >> > Alan C >> > >> > >> > -Original Message- From: Bob W >> > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM >> > To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' >> > Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor >> > >> > I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this >> > because I'm curious to see where it's going. >> > >> > Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since >> > common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are >> > equally closely related to both. >> > >> > Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the >> > Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) >> > great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's >> > quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably >> > outdated, but it is still an excellent read. >> > >> > The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps >> > does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, >> > but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on >> > the latest paper someone announces another candidate. >> > >> > I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. >> > There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations >> > happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are >> > found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other >> > candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the >> > type of creature it was. >> > >> > The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and >> > Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories >> > that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance >> > would be unwise to say &
Re: PESO - The Protestor
There was recently a local documentary on the subject. The similarities to & differences from chimpanzees was mentioned. Some locals then took the viewpoint that it was racist, implying that they were descended from monkeys. Talk about a persecution complex. The way the world is going, perhaps we're all monkeys. Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 1:29 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I've seen a number of articles and possibly a documentary about the cave, but I'll have a look at that one. B On 26 Nov 2015, at 17:50, Paul wrote: Here's the most (or one of the most) recent discoveries of another branch or our human family tree. Named homo naledi, the fossils were discovered in 2013 some 100 feet underground in a chamber with very difficult access. Among the interesting elements, besides the location, are the existence of complete skeletons and that they appear to have been placed there as part of a death ritual, suggesting the development of a culture. http://onwisconsin.uwalumni.com/features/chamberof-discovery/ Nova, broadcast on PBS here in the US, has a documentary on the discovery and retrieving a small portion of the thousands of bones. It's a couple hours long, but an interesting watch... http://video.pbs.org/video/2365559270/ -p On 11/26/2015 4:43 AM, Bob W wrote: I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because I'm curious to see where it's going. Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally closely related to both. Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an excellent read. The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest paper someone announces another candidate. I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it was. The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Can I have my surprise now? B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what you find. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific feeling. My opinion really doesn't mean much. Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not an area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. "Genetically we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a common base so we can further our discourse. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" in evolutionary terms. As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to chimps, bonobos, gor
Re: PESO - The Protestor
On 11/26/2015 10:48 AM, Alan C wrote: It's very refreshing, caffeine free & full of antioxidants. I must say it is an acquired taste, especially if you're accustomed to Ceylon. Blends with other herbs are available too. I drink a Rooibos/Buchu blend. Some people like it iced. It has the advantage of not being made from worms. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
I've never even been mildly interested in my family tree. "Yawn" J Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 26, 2015, at 7:39 AM, knarf wrote: > > While I find that subject to be mildly interesting, it's really of no > consequence to me who our common ancestor is. It seems very important to you. > Would you mind telling us why? > > Thanks, > > frank > >> On November 26, 2015 10:28:06 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >> Identifying a common ancestor. >> >> Alan C >> >> -Original Message- >> From: knarf >> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 3:15 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >> The key to what? >> >> Cheers, >> >> frank >> >>> On November 26, 2015 7:58:51 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>> Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea >>> instead. >>> >>> It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans >>> share >>> about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population >>> groups >>> too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still >>> to be >>> unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it >> all >>> >>> wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! >>> >>> Alan C >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: Bob W-PDML >>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>> >>> That won't do my gout any good. >>> >>> B >>> >>>> On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: >>>> >>>> Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. >>>> >>>> Alan C >>>> >>>> >>>> -Original Message- From: Bob W >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM >>>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' >>>> Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor >>>> >>>> I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this >>> because >>>> I'm curious to see where it's going. >>>> >>>> Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. >>> Since >>>> common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are >>> equally >>>> closely related to both. >>>> >>>> Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of >> the >>> >>>> Third >>>> Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great >>> apes, >>>> and >>>> talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old >>> book now >>>> so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is >>> still >>>> an >>>> excellent read. >>>> >>>> The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps >>> does >>>> not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but >>>> discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on >> the >>> >>>> latest >>>> paper someone announces another candidate. >>>> >>>> I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The >>> One. >>>> There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations >>>> happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils >> are >>> >>>> found >>>> of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other >>> candidates, >>>> but >>>> we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of >>> creature it >>>> was. >>>> >>>> The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and >>>> Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories >>> that >>>> somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would >>> be >>>> unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines >>> for >>>> about >>>> 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I >>>> wouldn't >>>> even hazard a guess. >>>> >>>> Can I have m
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Terrifc film .. and I"d say so even if I wasn't ann -san- :-) a On 11/26/2015 6:27 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote: I will. On 26 Nov 2015, at 17:53, Alan C wrote: If you ever get a chance to watch the movie "The God's must be Crazy" you will see that it was actually a Coke bottle which caused a San family feud. From Wikipedia: "Xi and his San tribe are "living well off the land" in the Kalahari Desert. They are happy because of their belief that the gods have provided plenty of everything, and no one among them has any wants. One day, a Coca-Cola bottle is thrown out of an aeroplane and falls to Earth unbroken. Initially, Xi's people suppose this strange artefact is a present from the gods and find many uses for it. They employ it as a craft tool, rolling pin, pestle, blow the top to make music, etc. But unlike anything that they have had before, there is only one glass bottle to go around. With everyone wanting it at once, they soon find themselves experiencing envy, anger, and even violence." Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 7:34 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor A large stone and a termite stick, and even that caused a family feud B On 26 Nov 2015, at 17:11, John wrote: Don't you want to know if he left us anything in his will? On 11/26/2015 10:39 AM, knarf wrote: While I find that subject to be mildly interesting, it's really of no consequence to me who our common ancestor is. It seems very important to you. Would you mind telling us why? Thanks, frank On November 26, 2015 10:28:06 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Identifying a common ancestor. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 3:15 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor The key to what? Cheers, frank On November 26, 2015 7:58:51 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea instead. It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans share about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population groups too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still to be unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it all wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor That won't do my gout any good. B On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because I'm curious to see where it's going. Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally closely related to both. Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an excellent read. The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest paper someone announces another candidate. I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it was. The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Can I have my surprise now? B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what you find. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday,
Re: PESO - The Protestor
I've seen a number of articles and possibly a documentary about the cave, but I'll have a look at that one. B > On 26 Nov 2015, at 17:50, Paul wrote: > > Here's the most (or one of the most) recent discoveries of another branch or > our human family tree. Named homo naledi, the fossils were discovered in > 2013 some 100 feet underground in a chamber with very difficult access. > Among the interesting elements, besides the location, are the existence of > complete skeletons and that they appear to have been placed there as part of > a death ritual, suggesting the development of a culture. > > http://onwisconsin.uwalumni.com/features/chamberof-discovery/ > > Nova, broadcast on PBS here in the US, has a documentary on the discovery and > retrieving a small portion of the thousands of bones. It's a couple hours > long, but an interesting watch... > > http://video.pbs.org/video/2365559270/ > > -p > >> On 11/26/2015 4:43 AM, Bob W wrote: >> I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because >> I'm curious to see where it's going. >> >> Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since >> common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally >> closely related to both. >> >> Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third >> Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and >> talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now >> so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an >> excellent read. >> >> The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does >> not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but >> discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest >> paper someone announces another candidate. >> >> I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. >> There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations >> happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found >> of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but >> we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it >> was. >> >> The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and >> Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that >> somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be >> unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about >> 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't >> even hazard a guess. >> >> Can I have my surprise now? >> >> B >> >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C >>> Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>> >>> Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what >>> you find. >>> >>> Alan C >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: knarf >>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>> >>> I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it >>> would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific >> feeling. >>> My opinion really doesn't mean much. >>> >>> Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of >>> opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not an >>> area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> frank >>> >>>> On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: >>>> You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. >>>> "Genetically >>>> we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in >>>> your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the >>>> common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm >>>> being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or >>>> tying to trap me in some way" - not really,
Re: PESO - The Protestor
I will. > On 26 Nov 2015, at 17:53, Alan C wrote: > > If you ever get a chance to watch the movie "The God's must be Crazy" you > will see that it was actually a Coke bottle which caused a San family feud. > > From Wikipedia: "Xi and his San tribe are "living well off the land" in the > Kalahari Desert. They are happy because of their belief that the gods have > provided plenty of everything, and no one among them has any wants. One day, > a Coca-Cola bottle is thrown out of an aeroplane and falls to Earth unbroken. > Initially, Xi's people suppose this strange artefact is a present from the > gods and find many uses for it. They employ it as a craft tool, rolling pin, > pestle, blow the top to make music, etc. But unlike anything that they have > had before, there is only one glass bottle to go around. With everyone > wanting it at once, they soon find themselves experiencing envy, anger, and > even violence." > > Alan C > > -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 7:34 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > > A large stone and a termite stick, and even that caused a family feud > > B > >> On 26 Nov 2015, at 17:11, John wrote: >> >> Don't you want to know if he left us anything in his will? >> >>> On 11/26/2015 10:39 AM, knarf wrote: >>> While I find that subject to be mildly interesting, it's really of no >>> consequence to me who our common ancestor is. It seems very important >>> to you. Would you mind telling us why? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> frank >>> >>> On November 26, 2015 10:28:06 AM EST, Alan C >>> wrote: >>>> Identifying a common ancestor. >>>> >>>> Alan C >>>> >>>> -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, >>>> 2015 3:15 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The >>>> Protestor >>>> >>>> The key to what? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> frank >>>> >>>> On November 26, 2015 7:58:51 AM EST, Alan C >>>> wrote: >>>>> Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of >>>>> Rooibos tea instead. >>>>> >>>>> It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & >>>>> Humans share about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between >>>>> human population groups too but there is an incredible web of >>>>> interbreeding & migration still to be unravelled. Those who think >>>>> the Neanderthals became extinct have it >>>> all >>>>> >>>>> wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! >>>>> >>>>> Alan C >>>>> >>>>> -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, >>>>> November 26, 2015 2:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: >>>>> Re: PESO - The Protestor >>>>> >>>>> That won't do my gout any good. >>>>> >>>>> B >>>>> >>>>>> On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in >>>>>> lard. >>>>>> >>>>>> Alan C >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November >>>>>> 26, 2015 12:43 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: >>>>>> PESO - The Protestor >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering >>>>>> this >>>>> because >>>>>> I'm curious to see where it's going. >>>>>> >>>>>> Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to >>>>>> bonobos. >>>>> Since >>>>>> common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we >>>>>> are >>>>> equally >>>>>> closely related to both. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall >>>>>> of >>>> the >>>>> >>>>>> Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the >>>>>
Re: PESO - The Protestor
If you ever get a chance to watch the movie "The God's must be Crazy" you will see that it was actually a Coke bottle which caused a San family feud. From Wikipedia: "Xi and his San tribe are "living well off the land" in the Kalahari Desert. They are happy because of their belief that the gods have provided plenty of everything, and no one among them has any wants. One day, a Coca-Cola bottle is thrown out of an aeroplane and falls to Earth unbroken. Initially, Xi's people suppose this strange artefact is a present from the gods and find many uses for it. They employ it as a craft tool, rolling pin, pestle, blow the top to make music, etc. But unlike anything that they have had before, there is only one glass bottle to go around. With everyone wanting it at once, they soon find themselves experiencing envy, anger, and even violence." Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 7:34 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor A large stone and a termite stick, and even that caused a family feud B On 26 Nov 2015, at 17:11, John wrote: Don't you want to know if he left us anything in his will? On 11/26/2015 10:39 AM, knarf wrote: While I find that subject to be mildly interesting, it's really of no consequence to me who our common ancestor is. It seems very important to you. Would you mind telling us why? Thanks, frank On November 26, 2015 10:28:06 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Identifying a common ancestor. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 3:15 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor The key to what? Cheers, frank On November 26, 2015 7:58:51 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea instead. It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans share about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population groups too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still to be unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it all wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor That won't do my gout any good. B On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because I'm curious to see where it's going. Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally closely related to both. Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an excellent read. The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest paper someone announces another candidate. I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it was. The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Can I have my surprise now? B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what you find. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to human
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Here's the most (or one of the most) recent discoveries of another branch or our human family tree. Named homo naledi, the fossils were discovered in 2013 some 100 feet underground in a chamber with very difficult access. Among the interesting elements, besides the location, are the existence of complete skeletons and that they appear to have been placed there as part of a death ritual, suggesting the development of a culture. http://onwisconsin.uwalumni.com/features/chamberof-discovery/ Nova, broadcast on PBS here in the US, has a documentary on the discovery and retrieving a small portion of the thousands of bones. It's a couple hours long, but an interesting watch... http://video.pbs.org/video/2365559270/ -p On 11/26/2015 4:43 AM, Bob W wrote: I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because I'm curious to see where it's going. Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally closely related to both. Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an excellent read. The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest paper someone announces another candidate. I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it was. The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Can I have my surprise now? B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what you find. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific feeling. My opinion really doesn't mean much. Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not an area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. "Genetically we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a common base so we can further our discourse. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" in evolutionary terms. As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or somehow "below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species has evolved differently to where we are today. I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way. Could we get to the point please? Thanks, frank On November 25, 2015 11:08:57 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Which are our closest living ancestors or perhaps those most like us? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:57 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I'm
Re: PESO - The Protestor
A large stone and a termite stick, and even that caused a family feud B > On 26 Nov 2015, at 17:11, John wrote: > > Don't you want to know if he left us anything in his will? > >> On 11/26/2015 10:39 AM, knarf wrote: >> While I find that subject to be mildly interesting, it's really of no >> consequence to me who our common ancestor is. It seems very important >> to you. Would you mind telling us why? >> >> Thanks, >> >> frank >> >> On November 26, 2015 10:28:06 AM EST, Alan C >> wrote: >>> Identifying a common ancestor. >>> >>> Alan C >>> >>> -----Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, >>> 2015 3:15 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The >>> Protestor >>> >>> The key to what? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> frank >>> >>> On November 26, 2015 7:58:51 AM EST, Alan C >>> wrote: >>>> Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of >>>> Rooibos tea instead. >>>> >>>> It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & >>>> Humans share about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between >>>> human population groups too but there is an incredible web of >>>> interbreeding & migration still to be unravelled. Those who think >>>> the Neanderthals became extinct have it >>> all >>>> >>>> wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! >>>> >>>> Alan C >>>> >>>> -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, >>>> November 26, 2015 2:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: >>>> Re: PESO - The Protestor >>>> >>>> That won't do my gout any good. >>>> >>>> B >>>> >>>>> On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in >>>>> lard. >>>>> >>>>> Alan C >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November >>>>> 26, 2015 12:43 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: >>>>> PESO - The Protestor >>>>> >>>>> I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering >>>>> this >>>> because >>>>> I'm curious to see where it's going. >>>>> >>>>> Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to >>>>> bonobos. >>>> Since >>>>> common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we >>>>> are >>>> equally >>>>> closely related to both. >>>>> >>>>> Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall >>>>> of >>> the >>>> >>>>> Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the >>>>> (other) great >>>> apes, >>>>> and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite >>>>> an old >>>> book now >>>>> so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but >>>>> it is >>>> still >>>>> an excellent read. >>>>> >>>>> The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and >>>>> chimps >>>> does >>>>> not seem to have been settled yet. There are several >>>>> candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before >>>>> the ink is dry on >>> the >>>> >>>>> latest paper someone announces another candidate. >>>>> >>>>> I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify >>>>> The >>>> One. >>>>> There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of >>>>> speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. >>>>> Even if fossils >>> are >>>> >>>>> found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the >>>>> other >>>> candidates, >>>>> but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type >>>>> of >>>> creature it >>>>> was. >>>>> >>>>> The current
Re: PESO - The Protestor
My arteries are starting to harden just from reading that. On 11/26/2015 7:00 AM, Alan C wrote: Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because I'm curious to see where it's going. Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally closely related to both. Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an excellent read. The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest paper someone announces another candidate. I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it was. The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Can I have my surprise now? B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what you find. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific feeling. My opinion really doesn't mean much. Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not an area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: >You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. >"Genetically >we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in >your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the >common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm >being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or >tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a >common base so we can further our discourse. > >Alan C > >-Original Message- >From: knarf >Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" >in >evolutionary terms. > >As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to >chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or >somehow "below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species has >evolved differently to where we are today. > >I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if > >you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way. > >Could we get to the point please? > >Thanks, > >frank > >On November 25, 2015 11:08:57 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>Which are our closest living ancestors or perhaps those most like us? >> >>Alan C >> >>-Original Message- >>From: knarf >>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:57 PM >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >>I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals, great >>apes to be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the >>earth, we have evolved from ancestors to our current form. >> &
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Don't you want to know if he left us anything in his will? On 11/26/2015 10:39 AM, knarf wrote: While I find that subject to be mildly interesting, it's really of no consequence to me who our common ancestor is. It seems very important to you. Would you mind telling us why? Thanks, frank On November 26, 2015 10:28:06 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Identifying a common ancestor. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 3:15 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor The key to what? Cheers, frank On November 26, 2015 7:58:51 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea instead. It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans share about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population groups too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still to be unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it all wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor That won't do my gout any good. B On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because I'm curious to see where it's going. Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally closely related to both. Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an excellent read. The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest paper someone announces another candidate. I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it was. The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Can I have my surprise now? B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what you find. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific feeling. My opinion really doesn't mean much. Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not an area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. "Genetically we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a common base so we can further our discourse. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I don't understand your question. We do
RE: PESO - The Protestor
So just like normal work then? > -Original Message- > From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John > > You didn't miss anything other than a lot of shouting, confused running back > & forth and standing around for hours at a time waiting for someone to get > an idea. > > On 11/25/2015 11:43 PM, knarf wrote: > > No, I've never been in the military. > > > > Cheers, > > > > frank -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Off to a friend's for thanksgiving dinner... but Have to bop in for a moment as I love, love , love Rooibos tea... especially witha bit of cinnamon in it... and for those of you in NOrth American,whole foods, normaill whole Paycheck, has 40 Tea bags for $4.00 US of a rooibos with vanilla that has become my evening drink - 4 or 5 cups a day. YUm! Happy turkey day everyone ann On 11/26/2015 11:48 AM, Alan C wrote: It's very refreshing, caffeine free & full of antioxidants. I must say it is an acquired taste, especially if you're accustomed to Ceylon. Blends with other herbs are available too. I drink a Rooibos/Buchu blend. Some people like it iced. Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:31 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor Not too keen on rooibos tea, but in the interests of cultural harmony I'll take a sip. That 70% figure is not the figure that orthodox science quotes: < http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent-exhibitions/human-origins-and-cult ural-halls/Anne-and-Bernard-Spitzer-Hall-of-Human-Origins/understanding-our- past/dna-comparing-humans-and-chimps> 70% seems to be a number that some people have latched onto to try and show that there hasn't been enough time for evolution to do its dirty work. It's rather a bizarre thing to do because they seem to be trying to have their cake and eat it. In order to make the argument they have to accept that evolution works in a certain way and then show that some relatively unimportant facts (70% versus 98.whatever %) mean the whole theory is wrong. B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 12:59 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea instead. It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans share about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population groups too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still to be unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it all wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor That won't do my gout any good. B > On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: > > Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. > > Alan C > > > -Original Message- From: Bob W > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM > To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' > Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor > > I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this > because I'm curious to see where it's going. > > Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since > common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are > equally closely related to both. > > Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the > Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) > great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's > quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably > outdated, but it is still an excellent read. > > The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps > does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, > but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on > the latest paper someone announces another candidate. > > I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. > There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations > happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are > found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other > candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the > type of creature it was. > > The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and > Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories > that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance > would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the > sidelines for about > 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I > wouldn't even hazard a guess. > > Can I have my surprise now? > > B > > >> -Original Message- >> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C >> Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: PESO - The Pr
Re: PESO - The Protestor
It's very refreshing, caffeine free & full of antioxidants. I must say it is an acquired taste, especially if you're accustomed to Ceylon. Blends with other herbs are available too. I drink a Rooibos/Buchu blend. Some people like it iced. Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:31 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor Not too keen on rooibos tea, but in the interests of cultural harmony I'll take a sip. That 70% figure is not the figure that orthodox science quotes: < http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent-exhibitions/human-origins-and-cult ural-halls/Anne-and-Bernard-Spitzer-Hall-of-Human-Origins/understanding-our- past/dna-comparing-humans-and-chimps> 70% seems to be a number that some people have latched onto to try and show that there hasn't been enough time for evolution to do its dirty work. It's rather a bizarre thing to do because they seem to be trying to have their cake and eat it. In order to make the argument they have to accept that evolution works in a certain way and then show that some relatively unimportant facts (70% versus 98.whatever %) mean the whole theory is wrong. B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 12:59 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea instead. It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans share about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population groups too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still to be unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it all wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor That won't do my gout any good. B > On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: > > Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. > > Alan C > > > -Original Message- From: Bob W > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM > To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' > Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor > > I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this > because I'm curious to see where it's going. > > Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since > common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are > equally closely related to both. > > Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the > Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) > great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's > quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably > outdated, but it is still an excellent read. > > The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps > does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, > but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on > the latest paper someone announces another candidate. > > I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. > There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations > happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are > found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other > candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the > type of creature it was. > > The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and > Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories > that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance > would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the > sidelines for about > 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I > wouldn't even hazard a guess. > > Can I have my surprise now? > > B > > >> -Original Message- >> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C >> Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >> Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised >> what you find. >> >> Alan C >> >> -Original Message- >> From: knarf >> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >> I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I >>
Re: PESO - The Protestor
You didn't miss anything other than a lot of shouting, confused running back & forth and standing around for hours at a time waiting for someone to get an idea. On 11/25/2015 11:43 PM, knarf wrote: No, I've never been in the military. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 10:30:36 PM EST, Alan C wrote: You were in the army? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:02 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I have an army parka made with no animal products that somehow manages to not frost up. It has a "tunnel", too. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 2:31:45 PM EST, Paul wrote: I have one of those parkas. When the hood is fully zipped there's actually a short "tunnel" of more moderate temperature air between your face and the outside. Supposedly wolf fur was the only trim that wouldn't frost up in those cold temperatures. -p On 11/25/2015 12:45 PM, John wrote: Wolf fur used to be the preferred trim for the hoods on heavy parkas, particularly the ones the Army & Air Force issued to personnel stationed near the arctic circle. Frank mentioned that fur trim on parkas and coats was making a resurgence. I don't know if the stores are selling wolf fur or not, but that's what the image called to my mind. For all I know it may be an image of coyotes. Whether it's Wolves or Coyotes doesn't make much difference to me, but that particular image was NOT rodents. Whichever way the political winds are blowing, I know a hawk from a handsaw. On 11/24/2015 11:39 PM, Ken Waller wrote: It is available from several Alaskan sources. I've considered buying a wolf pelt. -----Original Message- From: "Daniel J. Matyola" Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: I think that's wolf fur. On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault wrote: As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this kind of sums it up: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. cheers, frank -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
I wouldn't say it is particularly important to me but I have taken an interest in human evolution since my schooldays. I suppose that living in this part of the world where Sterkfontein is considered the most likely origin of hominids and also the fact that the San are an ancient family of man still living in an iron age time warp in parts of Namibia & Botswana are major factors. Sadly, the San have all been "contaminated" to some degree by contact with "civilisation". Most San were killed off by the advancing Nguni tribes in the middle ages. Their rock art is their legacy & shows how they lived in harmony with nature. The San (like the natives of North America) are the rightful owners of the land but get scant recognition nor does their language which has all but died out. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 5:39 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor While I find that subject to be mildly interesting, it's really of no consequence to me who our common ancestor is. It seems very important to you. Would you mind telling us why? Thanks, frank On November 26, 2015 10:28:06 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Identifying a common ancestor. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 3:15 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor The key to what? Cheers, frank On November 26, 2015 7:58:51 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea instead. It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans share about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population groups too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still to be unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it all wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor That won't do my gout any good. B On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because I'm curious to see where it's going. Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally closely related to both. Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an excellent read. The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest paper someone announces another candidate. I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it was. The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Can I have my surprise now? B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what you find. Alan C -----Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific feeling. My opinion really doesn't mean much. Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not
RE: PESO - The Protestor
Not too keen on rooibos tea, but in the interests of cultural harmony I'll take a sip. That 70% figure is not the figure that orthodox science quotes: < http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent-exhibitions/human-origins-and-cult ural-halls/Anne-and-Bernard-Spitzer-Hall-of-Human-Origins/understanding-our- past/dna-comparing-humans-and-chimps> 70% seems to be a number that some people have latched onto to try and show that there hasn't been enough time for evolution to do its dirty work. It's rather a bizarre thing to do because they seem to be trying to have their cake and eat it. In order to make the argument they have to accept that evolution works in a certain way and then show that some relatively unimportant facts (70% versus 98.whatever %) mean the whole theory is wrong. B > -Original Message- > From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C > Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 12:59 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > > Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea instead. > > It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans share > about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population > groups too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still to > be unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it all > wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! > > Alan C > > -Original Message- > From: Bob W-PDML > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > > That won't do my gout any good. > > B > > > On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: > > > > Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. > > > > Alan C > > > > > > -Original Message- From: Bob W > > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM > > To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' > > Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor > > > > I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this > > because I'm curious to see where it's going. > > > > Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since > > common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are > > equally closely related to both. > > > > Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the > > Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) > > great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's > > quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably > > outdated, but it is still an excellent read. > > > > The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps > > does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, > > but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on > > the latest paper someone announces another candidate. > > > > I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. > > There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations > > happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are > > found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other > > candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the > > type of creature it was. > > > > The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and > > Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories > > that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance > > would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the > > sidelines for about > > 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I > > wouldn't even hazard a guess. > > > > Can I have my surprise now? > > > > B > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C > >> Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM > >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >> > >> Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised > >> what you find. > >> > >> Alan C > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: knarf > >> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM > >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >> > >> I have no idea which other great ape is &q
Re: PESO - The Protestor
While I find that subject to be mildly interesting, it's really of no consequence to me who our common ancestor is. It seems very important to you. Would you mind telling us why? Thanks, frank On November 26, 2015 10:28:06 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >Identifying a common ancestor. > >Alan C > >-Original Message- >From: knarf >Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 3:15 PM >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >The key to what? > >Cheers, > >frank > >On November 26, 2015 7:58:51 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea >>instead. >> >>It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans >>share >>about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population >>groups >>too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still >>to be >>unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it >all >> >>wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! >> >>Alan C >> >>-Original Message- >>From: Bob W-PDML >>Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >>That won't do my gout any good. >> >>B >> >>> On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: >>> >>> Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. >>> >>> Alan C >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- From: Bob W >>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM >>> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' >>> Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor >>> >>> I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this >>because >>> I'm curious to see where it's going. >>> >>> Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. >>Since >>> common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are >>equally >>> closely related to both. >>> >>> Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of >the >> >>> Third >>> Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great >>apes, >>> and >>> talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old >>book now >>> so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is >>still >>> an >>> excellent read. >>> >>> The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps >>does >>> not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but >>> discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on >the >> >>> latest >>> paper someone announces another candidate. >>> >>> I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The >>One. >>> There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations >>> happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils >are >> >>> found >>> of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other >>candidates, >>> but >>> we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of >>creature it >>> was. >>> >>> The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and >>> Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories >>that >>> somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would >>be >>> unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines >>for >>> about >>> 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I >>> wouldn't >>> even hazard a guess. >>> >>> Can I have my surprise now? >>> >>> B >>> >>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C >>>> Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM >>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>>> >>>> Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be >>surprised >>>> what >>>> you find. >>>> >>>> Alan C >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: knarf >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM >>>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List &
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Identifying a common ancestor. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 3:15 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor The key to what? Cheers, frank On November 26, 2015 7:58:51 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea instead. It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans share about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population groups too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still to be unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it all wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor That won't do my gout any good. B On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because I'm curious to see where it's going. Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally closely related to both. Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an excellent read. The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest paper someone announces another candidate. I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it was. The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Can I have my surprise now? B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what you find. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific feeling. My opinion really doesn't mean much. Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not an area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: >You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. >"Genetically >we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in >your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the >common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm >being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or >tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a >common base so we can further our discourse. > >Alan C > >-Original Message- >From: knarf >Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" >in >evolutionary terms. > >As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to >chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or >somehow "below" us. We share a c
Re: PESO - The Protestor
The key to what? Cheers, frank On November 26, 2015 7:58:51 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea >instead. > >It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans >share >about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population >groups >too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still >to be >unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it all > >wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! > >Alan C > >-Original Message- >From: Bob W-PDML >Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >That won't do my gout any good. > >B > >> On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: >> >> Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. >> >> Alan C >> >> >> -Original Message- From: Bob W >> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM >> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' >> Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor >> >> I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this >because >> I'm curious to see where it's going. >> >> Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. >Since >> common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are >equally >> closely related to both. >> >> Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the > >> Third >> Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great >apes, >> and >> talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old >book now >> so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is >still >> an >> excellent read. >> >> The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps >does >> not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but >> discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the > >> latest >> paper someone announces another candidate. >> >> I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The >One. >> There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations >> happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are > >> found >> of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other >candidates, >> but >> we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of >creature it >> was. >> >> The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and >> Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories >that >> somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would >be >> unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines >for >> about >> 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I >> wouldn't >> even hazard a guess. >> >> Can I have my surprise now? >> >> B >> >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C >>> Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>> >>> Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be >surprised >>> what >>> you find. >>> >>> Alan C >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: knarf >>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>> >>> I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I >suppose it >>> would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific >> feeling. >>> My opinion really doesn't mean much. >>> >>> Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter >of >>> opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is >not an >>> area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> frank >>> >>> On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C >wrote: >>> >You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. >>> >"Genetically >>> >we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, >in >>>
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea instead. It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans share about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population groups too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still to be unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it all wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums! Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W-PDML Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor That won't do my gout any good. B On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because I'm curious to see where it's going. Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally closely related to both. Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an excellent read. The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest paper someone announces another candidate. I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it was. The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Can I have my surprise now? B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what you find. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific feeling. My opinion really doesn't mean much. Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not an area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: >You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. >"Genetically >we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in >your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the >common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm >being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or >tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a >common base so we can further our discourse. > >Alan C > >-Original Message- >From: knarf >Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" >in >evolutionary terms. > >As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to >chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or >somehow "below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species has >evolved differently to where we are today. > >I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if > >you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way. > >Could we get to the point please? > >Thanks
Re: PESO - The Protestor
That won't do my gout any good. B > On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C wrote: > > Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. > > Alan C > > > -Original Message- From: Bob W > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM > To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' > Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor > > I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because > I'm curious to see where it's going. > > Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since > common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally > closely related to both. > > Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third > Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and > talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now > so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an > excellent read. > > The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does > not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but > discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest > paper someone announces another candidate. > > I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. > There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations > happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found > of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but > we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it > was. > > The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and > Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that > somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be > unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about > 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't > even hazard a guess. > > Can I have my surprise now? > > B > > >> -Original Message- >> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C >> Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >> Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what >> you find. >> >> Alan C >> >> -Original Message- >> From: knarf >> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >> I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it >> would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific > feeling. >> My opinion really doesn't mean much. >> >> Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of >> opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not an >> area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. >> >> Cheers, >> >> frank >> >> On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: >> >You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. >> >"Genetically >> >we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in >> >your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the >> >common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm >> >being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or >> >tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a >> >common base so we can further our discourse. >> > >> >Alan C >> > >> >-Original Message- >> >From: knarf >> >Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM >> >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> > >> >I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" >> >in >> >evolutionary terms. >> > >> >As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to >> >chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or >> >somehow "below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species has >> >evolved differently to where we are today. >> > >> >I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if >> &g
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard. Alan C -Original Message- From: Bob W Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because I'm curious to see where it's going. Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally closely related to both. Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an excellent read. The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest paper someone announces another candidate. I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it was. The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Can I have my surprise now? B -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what you find. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific feeling. My opinion really doesn't mean much. Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not an area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: >You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. >"Genetically >we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in >your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the >common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm >being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or >tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a >common base so we can further our discourse. > >Alan C > >-Original Message- >From: knarf >Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" >in >evolutionary terms. > >As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to >chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or >somehow "below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species has >evolved differently to where we are today. > >I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if > >you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way. > >Could we get to the point please? > >Thanks, > >frank > >On November 25, 2015 11:08:57 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>Which are our closest living ancestors or perhaps those most like us? >> >>Alan C >> >>-Original Message- >>From: knarf >>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:57 PM >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >>I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals, great >>apes to be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the >>earth, we have evolved from ancestors to our current form. >> >>Cheers, >> >>frank >> >> >> >>On November 25, 2015 9:4
Re: PESO - The Protestor
You wouldn't by chance be trying to lead me to the following site: http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/06/following_the_evidence_where_i047161.html Would you? Or possibly one like it? Just curious. Cheers, frank On November 26, 2015 12:05:55 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised >what >you find. > >Alan C > >-Original Message- >From: knarf >Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose >it >would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific >feeling. >My opinion really doesn't mean much. > >Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of >opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not >an >area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. > >Cheers, > >frank > >On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: >>You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. >>"Genetically >>we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in >>your >>opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the >>common >>ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being >>cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying >>to >>trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a common >>base so >>we can further our discourse. >> >>Alan C >> >>-Original Message- >>From: knarf >>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >>I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" >>in >>evolutionary terms. >> >>As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to >>chimps, >>bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or somehow >>"below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species has evolved >>differently to where we are today. >> >>I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as >if >> >>you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way. >> >>Could we get to the point please? >> >>Thanks, >> >>frank >> >>On November 25, 2015 11:08:57 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>>Which are our closest living ancestors or perhaps those most like us? >>> >>>Alan C >>> >>>-Original Message- >>>From: knarf >>>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:57 PM >>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>> >>>I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals, great >>>apes >>>to be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the earth, we >>>have >>>evolved from ancestors to our current form. >>> >>>Cheers, >>> >>>frank >>> >>> >>> >>>On November 25, 2015 9:41:37 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>>>Do you consider humans to be part of the evolutionary scale? >>>> >>>>Alan C >>>> >>>>-Original Message- >>>>From: knarf >>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:28 PM >>>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>>> >>>>We were talking about protesters and anti-fur, but you correctly >>>>surmise >>>>that I am sympathetic to their cause. And yes, many of the >protesters >>>>we met >>>>on Sunday are vegans, some of whom we've met at vegan events. >>>> >>>>We've discussed my dietary veganism before, and while there are no >>>>"rules", >>>>ethical vegans normally take the position that it is wrong to >exploit >>>>animals. For that reason we do not knowingly consume animal >products, >>>>and >>>>that extends beyond diet. I do not want to use any product that came >>>>from an >>>>animal: that includes leather, wool, silk, etc. It gets tricky >>because >>>>some >>>>glues have animal products. Some beer has fish - derived isinglas >(a >>>>foaming agent). Sometimes one really has to research to make sure >>they >
RE: PESO - The Protestor
I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because I'm curious to see where it's going. Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally closely related to both. Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes, and talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book now so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still an excellent read. The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the latest paper someone announces another candidate. I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One. There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are found of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates, but we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it was. The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for about 40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I wouldn't even hazard a guess. Can I have my surprise now? B > -Original Message- > From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C > Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > > Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what > you find. > > Alan C > > -Original Message- > From: knarf > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > > I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it > would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific feeling. > My opinion really doesn't mean much. > > Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of > opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not an > area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. > > Cheers, > > frank > > On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: > >You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. > >"Genetically > >we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in > >your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the > >common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm > >being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or > >tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a > >common base so we can further our discourse. > > > >Alan C > > > >-Original Message- > >From: knarf > >Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM > >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > > > >I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" > >in > >evolutionary terms. > > > >As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to > >chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or > >somehow "below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species has > >evolved differently to where we are today. > > > >I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if > > > >you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way. > > > >Could we get to the point please? > > > >Thanks, > > > >frank > > > >On November 25, 2015 11:08:57 AM EST, Alan C wrote: > >>Which are our closest living ancestors or perhaps those most like us? > >> > >>Alan C > >> > >>-Original Message- > >>From: knarf > >>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:57 PM > >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >> > >>I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals, great > >>apes to be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the > >>earth, we have evolved from ancestors to our current form. > >> > >>Cheers, > >> > >>frank > >> > >> > >> > >>On November 25, 2015 9:41:37 AM EST, Alan C wrote: > >>>Do you consider humans to be part of the evolutionary scale? > >>> > >>>Alan C -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised what you find. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific feeling. My opinion really doesn't mean much. Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not an area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. "Genetically we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a common base so we can further our discourse. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" in evolutionary terms. As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or somehow "below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species has evolved differently to where we are today. I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way. Could we get to the point please? Thanks, frank On November 25, 2015 11:08:57 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Which are our closest living ancestors or perhaps those most like us? Alan C -----Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:57 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals, great apes to be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the earth, we have evolved from ancestors to our current form. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 9:41:37 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Do you consider humans to be part of the evolutionary scale? Alan C -----Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:28 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor We were talking about protesters and anti-fur, but you correctly surmise that I am sympathetic to their cause. And yes, many of the protesters we met on Sunday are vegans, some of whom we've met at vegan events. We've discussed my dietary veganism before, and while there are no "rules", ethical vegans normally take the position that it is wrong to exploit animals. For that reason we do not knowingly consume animal products, and that extends beyond diet. I do not want to use any product that came from an animal: that includes leather, wool, silk, etc. It gets tricky because some glues have animal products. Some beer has fish - derived isinglas (a foaming agent). Sometimes one really has to research to make sure they are not unwittingly exploiting animals. As for my shoes, I mostly wear canvas running shoes (Converse Chuck Taylor's to be exact) and my dress shoes are synthetic that have the look (but not cruelty) of leather. Thanks for asking. And by "native" we were referring to North America's First Nations people , the descendants of those who greeted the first Europeans when they arrived here. We used to call them "Indians" because many early explorers were geographically challenged. That term is no longer used as we now reserve it for those who are actually from the country India. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 2:36:11 AM EST, Alan C wrote: What about your leather shoes? And what is a native? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 7:49 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor You said "no store sells fur". I found one that does. I didn't say Holt Renfrew in Toronto sells wolf coats. I was making answer to a very specific statement you made. That being said, most wolf fur sold is ~not~ for coats, it's trim. There's every possibility that there are coats in Holt's with wolf trim. And even if there isn't, they do sell fur. That's what the protest was generally about, the sale of any fur. Their placards educated about the fur industry as a whole, including coyote fur, which is far more
Re: PESO - The Protestor
I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose it would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific feeling. My opinion really doesn't mean much. Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not an area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C wrote: >You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. >"Genetically >we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in >your >opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the >common >ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being >cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying >to >trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a common >base so >we can further our discourse. > >Alan C > >-----Original Message- >From: knarf >Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" >in >evolutionary terms. > >As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to >chimps, >bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or somehow >"below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species has evolved >differently to where we are today. > >I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if > >you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way. > >Could we get to the point please? > >Thanks, > >frank > >On November 25, 2015 11:08:57 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>Which are our closest living ancestors or perhaps those most like us? >> >>Alan C >> >>-Original Message- >>From: knarf >>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:57 PM >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >>I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals, great >>apes >>to be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the earth, we >>have >>evolved from ancestors to our current form. >> >>Cheers, >> >>frank >> >> >> >>On November 25, 2015 9:41:37 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>>Do you consider humans to be part of the evolutionary scale? >>> >>>Alan C >>> >>>-Original Message- >>>From: knarf >>>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:28 PM >>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>> >>>We were talking about protesters and anti-fur, but you correctly >>>surmise >>>that I am sympathetic to their cause. And yes, many of the protesters >>>we met >>>on Sunday are vegans, some of whom we've met at vegan events. >>> >>>We've discussed my dietary veganism before, and while there are no >>>"rules", >>>ethical vegans normally take the position that it is wrong to exploit >>>animals. For that reason we do not knowingly consume animal products, >>>and >>>that extends beyond diet. I do not want to use any product that came >>>from an >>>animal: that includes leather, wool, silk, etc. It gets tricky >because >>>some >>>glues have animal products. Some beer has fish - derived isinglas (a >>>foaming agent). Sometimes one really has to research to make sure >they >>>are >>>not unwittingly exploiting animals. >>> >>>As for my shoes, I mostly wear canvas running shoes (Converse Chuck >>>Taylor's >>>to be exact) and my dress shoes are synthetic that have the look (but >>>not >>>cruelty) of leather. >>> >>>Thanks for asking. >>> >>>And by "native" we were referring to North America's First Nations >>>people , >>>the descendants of those who greeted the first Europeans when they >>>arrived >>>here. We used to call them "Indians" because many early explorers >were >>>geographically challenged. That term is no longer used as we now >>>reserve it >>>for those who are actually from the country India. >>> >>>Cheers, >>> >>>frank >>> >>>On November 25, 2015 2:36:11 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>>>What about your
Re: PESO - The Protestor
No, I've never been in the military. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 10:30:36 PM EST, Alan C wrote: >You were in the army? > >Alan C > >-Original Message- >From: knarf >Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:02 PM >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >I have an army parka made with no animal products that somehow manages >to >not frost up. It has a "tunnel", too. > >Cheers, > >frank > >On November 25, 2015 2:31:45 PM EST, Paul wrote: >>I have one of those parkas. When the hood is fully zipped there's >>actually a short "tunnel" of more moderate temperature air between >your >> >>face and the outside. Supposedly wolf fur was the only trim that >>wouldn't frost up in those cold temperatures. >> >>-p >> >>On 11/25/2015 12:45 PM, John wrote: >>> Wolf fur used to be the preferred trim for the hoods on heavy >parkas, >>> particularly the ones the Army & Air Force issued to personnel >>stationed >>> near the arctic circle. >>> >>> Frank mentioned that fur trim on parkas and coats was making a >>> resurgence. I don't know if the stores are selling wolf fur or not, >>but >>> that's what the image called to my mind. >>> >>> For all I know it may be an image of coyotes. Whether it's Wolves or >>> Coyotes doesn't make much difference to me, but that particular >image >>> was NOT rodents. >>> >>> Whichever way the political winds are blowing, I know a hawk from a >>> handsaw. >>> >>> >>> On 11/24/2015 11:39 PM, Ken Waller wrote: >>>> It is available from several Alaskan sources. >>>> >>>> I've considered buying a wolf pelt. >>>> >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>>> From: "Daniel J. Matyola" >>>>> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>>>> >>>>> No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. >>>>> >>>>> Dan Matyola >>>>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John >>wrote: >>>>>> I think that's wolf fur. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan Matyola >>>>>>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars >in >>>>>>>> front >>>>>>>> of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights >>group >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells >>it: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, >>this >>>>>>>> kind of sums it up: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a >>resurgence >>>>>>>> around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cheers, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> frank >>> >>> -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
You were in the army? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:02 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I have an army parka made with no animal products that somehow manages to not frost up. It has a "tunnel", too. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 2:31:45 PM EST, Paul wrote: I have one of those parkas. When the hood is fully zipped there's actually a short "tunnel" of more moderate temperature air between your face and the outside. Supposedly wolf fur was the only trim that wouldn't frost up in those cold temperatures. -p On 11/25/2015 12:45 PM, John wrote: Wolf fur used to be the preferred trim for the hoods on heavy parkas, particularly the ones the Army & Air Force issued to personnel stationed near the arctic circle. Frank mentioned that fur trim on parkas and coats was making a resurgence. I don't know if the stores are selling wolf fur or not, but that's what the image called to my mind. For all I know it may be an image of coyotes. Whether it's Wolves or Coyotes doesn't make much difference to me, but that particular image was NOT rodents. Whichever way the political winds are blowing, I know a hawk from a handsaw. On 11/24/2015 11:39 PM, Ken Waller wrote: It is available from several Alaskan sources. I've considered buying a wolf pelt. -Original Message- From: "Daniel J. Matyola" Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: I think that's wolf fur. On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault wrote: As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this kind of sums it up: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better. "Genetically we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a common base so we can further our discourse. Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" in evolutionary terms. As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or somehow "below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species has evolved differently to where we are today. I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way. Could we get to the point please? Thanks, frank On November 25, 2015 11:08:57 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Which are our closest living ancestors or perhaps those most like us? Alan C -Original Message----- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:57 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals, great apes to be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the earth, we have evolved from ancestors to our current form. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 9:41:37 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Do you consider humans to be part of the evolutionary scale? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:28 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor We were talking about protesters and anti-fur, but you correctly surmise that I am sympathetic to their cause. And yes, many of the protesters we met on Sunday are vegans, some of whom we've met at vegan events. We've discussed my dietary veganism before, and while there are no "rules", ethical vegans normally take the position that it is wrong to exploit animals. For that reason we do not knowingly consume animal products, and that extends beyond diet. I do not want to use any product that came from an animal: that includes leather, wool, silk, etc. It gets tricky because some glues have animal products. Some beer has fish - derived isinglas (a foaming agent). Sometimes one really has to research to make sure they are not unwittingly exploiting animals. As for my shoes, I mostly wear canvas running shoes (Converse Chuck Taylor's to be exact) and my dress shoes are synthetic that have the look (but not cruelty) of leather. Thanks for asking. And by "native" we were referring to North America's First Nations people , the descendants of those who greeted the first Europeans when they arrived here. We used to call them "Indians" because many early explorers were geographically challenged. That term is no longer used as we now reserve it for those who are actually from the country India. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 2:36:11 AM EST, Alan C wrote: What about your leather shoes? And what is a native? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 7:49 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor You said "no store sells fur". I found one that does. I didn't say Holt Renfrew in Toronto sells wolf coats. I was making answer to a very specific statement you made. That being said, most wolf fur sold is ~not~ for coats, it's trim. There's every possibility that there are coats in Holt's with wolf trim. And even if there isn't, they do sell fur. That's what the protest was generally about, the sale of any fur. Their placards educated about the fur industry as a whole, including coyote fur, which is far more commonly sold. Why are you getting so hung up on details? Does that diminish the protest for you in some way, if you feel can find a few inaccuracies or inconsistencies? By the way, kudos on playing the "traditional Native lifestyle" card! Now if we really gave a crap about their lifestyle we'd enforce broken treaties and give back stolen lands. BTW most fur isn't trapped by natives. Or from North America. Or even trapped. The vast majority of pelts sold are from European and Asian fur farms. Just so you know... Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 12:09:49 AM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: They were protesting a store, Frank. What does this site have to do with the store they
Re: PESO - The Protestor
On 11/25/2015 12:45 PM, John wrote: For all I know it may be an image of coyotes. Whether it's Wolves or Coyotes doesn't make much difference to me, but that particular image was NOT rodents. Whichever way the political winds are blowing, I know a hawk from a handsaw. We shall scrutinize your PUG entry for December carefully :-) ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors" in evolutionary terms. As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or somehow "below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species has evolved differently to where we are today. I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way. Could we get to the point please? Thanks, frank On November 25, 2015 11:08:57 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >Which are our closest living ancestors or perhaps those most like us? > >Alan C > >-Original Message- >From: knarf >Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:57 PM >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals, great >apes >to be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the earth, we >have >evolved from ancestors to our current form. > >Cheers, > >frank > > > >On November 25, 2015 9:41:37 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>Do you consider humans to be part of the evolutionary scale? >> >>Alan C >> >>-Original Message- >>From: knarf >>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:28 PM >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >>We were talking about protesters and anti-fur, but you correctly >>surmise >>that I am sympathetic to their cause. And yes, many of the protesters >>we met >>on Sunday are vegans, some of whom we've met at vegan events. >> >>We've discussed my dietary veganism before, and while there are no >>"rules", >>ethical vegans normally take the position that it is wrong to exploit >>animals. For that reason we do not knowingly consume animal products, >>and >>that extends beyond diet. I do not want to use any product that came >>from an >>animal: that includes leather, wool, silk, etc. It gets tricky because >>some >>glues have animal products. Some beer has fish - derived isinglas (a >>foaming agent). Sometimes one really has to research to make sure they >>are >>not unwittingly exploiting animals. >> >>As for my shoes, I mostly wear canvas running shoes (Converse Chuck >>Taylor's >>to be exact) and my dress shoes are synthetic that have the look (but >>not >>cruelty) of leather. >> >>Thanks for asking. >> >>And by "native" we were referring to North America's First Nations >>people , >>the descendants of those who greeted the first Europeans when they >>arrived >>here. We used to call them "Indians" because many early explorers were >>geographically challenged. That term is no longer used as we now >>reserve it >>for those who are actually from the country India. >> >>Cheers, >> >>frank >> >>On November 25, 2015 2:36:11 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>>What about your leather shoes? And what is a native? >>> >>>Alan C >>> >>>-Original Message- >>>From: knarf >>>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 7:49 AM >>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>> >>>You said "no store sells fur". I found one that does. I didn't say >>Holt >>> >>>Renfrew in Toronto sells wolf coats. I was making answer to a very >>>specific >>>statement you made. >>> >>>That being said, most wolf fur sold is ~not~ for coats, it's trim. >>>There's >>>every possibility that there are coats in Holt's with wolf trim. And >>>even if >>>there isn't, they do sell fur. That's what the protest was generally >>>about, >>>the sale of any fur. Their placards educated about the fur industry >as >>>a >>>whole, including coyote fur, which is far more commonly sold. >>> >>>Why are you getting so hung up on details? Does that diminish the >>>protest >>>for you in some way, if you feel can find a few inaccuracies or >>>inconsistencies? >>> >>>By the way, kudos on playing the "traditional Native lifestyle" card! >>>Now if >>>we really gave a crap about their lifestyle we'd enforce broken >>>treaties and >>>give back stolen lands. >>> >>>BTW most fur isn't trapped by natives. Or from North America. Or even >>>tra
Re: PESO - The Protestor
I have an army parka made with no animal products that somehow manages to not frost up. It has a "tunnel", too. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 2:31:45 PM EST, Paul wrote: >I have one of those parkas. When the hood is fully zipped there's >actually a short "tunnel" of more moderate temperature air between your > >face and the outside. Supposedly wolf fur was the only trim that >wouldn't frost up in those cold temperatures. > >-p > >On 11/25/2015 12:45 PM, John wrote: >> Wolf fur used to be the preferred trim for the hoods on heavy parkas, >> particularly the ones the Army & Air Force issued to personnel >stationed >> near the arctic circle. >> >> Frank mentioned that fur trim on parkas and coats was making a >> resurgence. I don't know if the stores are selling wolf fur or not, >but >> that's what the image called to my mind. >> >> For all I know it may be an image of coyotes. Whether it's Wolves or >> Coyotes doesn't make much difference to me, but that particular image >> was NOT rodents. >> >> Whichever way the political winds are blowing, I know a hawk from a >> handsaw. >> >> >> On 11/24/2015 11:39 PM, Ken Waller wrote: >>> It is available from several Alaskan sources. >>> >>> I've considered buying a wolf pelt. >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>>> From: "Daniel J. Matyola" >>>> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>>> >>>> No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. >>>> >>>> Dan Matyola >>>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John >wrote: >>>>> I think that's wolf fur. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan Matyola >>>>>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in >>>>>>> front >>>>>>> of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights >group >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells >it: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, >this >>>>>>> kind of sums it up: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a >resurgence >>>>>>> around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> frank >> >> -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
There was an exhibition here a few years ago about polar exploration. It included two head-to-toe wolfskin suits that Shackleton (I think) had had made for one of his little jaunts. They'd had to stop using them after a day or two because evening in the deepest cold on earth, they were far too warm! B > On 25 Nov 2015, at 18:46, John wrote: > > Wolf fur used to be the preferred trim for the hoods on heavy parkas, > particularly the ones the Army & Air Force issued to personnel stationed > near the arctic circle. > > Frank mentioned that fur trim on parkas and coats was making a > resurgence. I don't know if the stores are selling wolf fur or not, but > that's what the image called to my mind. > > For all I know it may be an image of coyotes. Whether it's Wolves or > Coyotes doesn't make much difference to me, but that particular image > was NOT rodents. > > Whichever way the political winds are blowing, I know a hawk from a handsaw. > > >> On 11/24/2015 11:39 PM, Ken Waller wrote: >> It is available from several Alaskan sources. >> >> I've considered buying a wolf pelt. >> >> >> -Original Message- >>> From: "Daniel J. Matyola" >>> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>> >>> No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. >>> >>> Dan Matyola >>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: >>>> I think that's wolf fur. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dan Matyola >>>>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front >>>>>> of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was >>>>>> protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this >>>>>> kind of sums it up: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html >>>>>> >>>>>> Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence >>>>>> around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> frank > > > -- > Science - Questions we may never find answers for. > Religion - Answers we must never question. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
I have one of those parkas. When the hood is fully zipped there's actually a short "tunnel" of more moderate temperature air between your face and the outside. Supposedly wolf fur was the only trim that wouldn't frost up in those cold temperatures. -p On 11/25/2015 12:45 PM, John wrote: Wolf fur used to be the preferred trim for the hoods on heavy parkas, particularly the ones the Army & Air Force issued to personnel stationed near the arctic circle. Frank mentioned that fur trim on parkas and coats was making a resurgence. I don't know if the stores are selling wolf fur or not, but that's what the image called to my mind. For all I know it may be an image of coyotes. Whether it's Wolves or Coyotes doesn't make much difference to me, but that particular image was NOT rodents. Whichever way the political winds are blowing, I know a hawk from a handsaw. On 11/24/2015 11:39 PM, Ken Waller wrote: It is available from several Alaskan sources. I've considered buying a wolf pelt. -Original Message----- From: "Daniel J. Matyola" Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: I think that's wolf fur. On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault wrote: As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this kind of sums it up: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. cheers, frank -- Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Wolf fur used to be the preferred trim for the hoods on heavy parkas, particularly the ones the Army & Air Force issued to personnel stationed near the arctic circle. Frank mentioned that fur trim on parkas and coats was making a resurgence. I don't know if the stores are selling wolf fur or not, but that's what the image called to my mind. For all I know it may be an image of coyotes. Whether it's Wolves or Coyotes doesn't make much difference to me, but that particular image was NOT rodents. Whichever way the political winds are blowing, I know a hawk from a handsaw. On 11/24/2015 11:39 PM, Ken Waller wrote: It is available from several Alaskan sources. I've considered buying a wolf pelt. -Original Message- From: "Daniel J. Matyola" Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: I think that's wolf fur. On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault wrote: As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this kind of sums it up: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. cheers, frank -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Which are our closest living ancestors or perhaps those most like us? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:57 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals, great apes to be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the earth, we have evolved from ancestors to our current form. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 9:41:37 AM EST, Alan C wrote: Do you consider humans to be part of the evolutionary scale? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:28 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor We were talking about protesters and anti-fur, but you correctly surmise that I am sympathetic to their cause. And yes, many of the protesters we met on Sunday are vegans, some of whom we've met at vegan events. We've discussed my dietary veganism before, and while there are no "rules", ethical vegans normally take the position that it is wrong to exploit animals. For that reason we do not knowingly consume animal products, and that extends beyond diet. I do not want to use any product that came from an animal: that includes leather, wool, silk, etc. It gets tricky because some glues have animal products. Some beer has fish - derived isinglas (a foaming agent). Sometimes one really has to research to make sure they are not unwittingly exploiting animals. As for my shoes, I mostly wear canvas running shoes (Converse Chuck Taylor's to be exact) and my dress shoes are synthetic that have the look (but not cruelty) of leather. Thanks for asking. And by "native" we were referring to North America's First Nations people , the descendants of those who greeted the first Europeans when they arrived here. We used to call them "Indians" because many early explorers were geographically challenged. That term is no longer used as we now reserve it for those who are actually from the country India. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 2:36:11 AM EST, Alan C wrote: What about your leather shoes? And what is a native? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 7:49 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor You said "no store sells fur". I found one that does. I didn't say Holt Renfrew in Toronto sells wolf coats. I was making answer to a very specific statement you made. That being said, most wolf fur sold is ~not~ for coats, it's trim. There's every possibility that there are coats in Holt's with wolf trim. And even if there isn't, they do sell fur. That's what the protest was generally about, the sale of any fur. Their placards educated about the fur industry as a whole, including coyote fur, which is far more commonly sold. Why are you getting so hung up on details? Does that diminish the protest for you in some way, if you feel can find a few inaccuracies or inconsistencies? By the way, kudos on playing the "traditional Native lifestyle" card! Now if we really gave a crap about their lifestyle we'd enforce broken treaties and give back stolen lands. BTW most fur isn't trapped by natives. Or from North America. Or even trapped. The vast majority of pelts sold are from European and Asian fur farms. Just so you know... Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 12:09:49 AM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: They were protesting a store, Frank. What does this site have to do with the store they were protesting -- or any of the legitimate stores that PETA demonstrates against? Quite frankly, there will always be wolves and other species that can be hunted and used under certain circumstances, especially by native peoples, Preserving their traditional life style is more important. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:44 PM, knarf wrote: http://www.peterpalms.com/wolf/ Probably made up by some PETA looney to discredit the fur industry... Cheers, frank On November 24, 2015 10:33:59 PM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: I think that's wolf fur. On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault wrote: As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this kind of sums i
Re: PESO - The Protestor
True and the most highly evolved is considered to be Pentax Man. J Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 25, 2015, at 6:57 AM, knarf wrote: > > I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals, great apes to > be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the earth, we have > evolved from ancestors to our current form. > > Cheers, > > frank > > > >> On November 25, 2015 9:41:37 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >> Do you consider humans to be part of the evolutionary scale? >> >> Alan C >> >> -Original Message- >> From: knarf >> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:28 PM >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >> We were talking about protesters and anti-fur, but you correctly >> surmise >> that I am sympathetic to their cause. And yes, many of the protesters >> we met >> on Sunday are vegans, some of whom we've met at vegan events. >> >> We've discussed my dietary veganism before, and while there are no >> "rules", >> ethical vegans normally take the position that it is wrong to exploit >> animals. For that reason we do not knowingly consume animal products, >> and >> that extends beyond diet. I do not want to use any product that came >> from an >> animal: that includes leather, wool, silk, etc. It gets tricky because >> some >> glues have animal products. Some beer has fish - derived isinglas (a >> foaming agent). Sometimes one really has to research to make sure they >> are >> not unwittingly exploiting animals. >> >> As for my shoes, I mostly wear canvas running shoes (Converse Chuck >> Taylor's >> to be exact) and my dress shoes are synthetic that have the look (but >> not >> cruelty) of leather. >> >> Thanks for asking. >> >> And by "native" we were referring to North America's First Nations >> people , >> the descendants of those who greeted the first Europeans when they >> arrived >> here. We used to call them "Indians" because many early explorers were >> geographically challenged. That term is no longer used as we now >> reserve it >> for those who are actually from the country India. >> >> Cheers, >> >> frank >> >>> On November 25, 2015 2:36:11 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>> What about your leather shoes? And what is a native? >>> >>> Alan C >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: knarf >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 7:49 AM >>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >>> >>> You said "no store sells fur". I found one that does. I didn't say >> Holt >>> >>> Renfrew in Toronto sells wolf coats. I was making answer to a very >>> specific >>> statement you made. >>> >>> That being said, most wolf fur sold is ~not~ for coats, it's trim. >>> There's >>> every possibility that there are coats in Holt's with wolf trim. And >>> even if >>> there isn't, they do sell fur. That's what the protest was generally >>> about, >>> the sale of any fur. Their placards educated about the fur industry as >>> a >>> whole, including coyote fur, which is far more commonly sold. >>> >>> Why are you getting so hung up on details? Does that diminish the >>> protest >>> for you in some way, if you feel can find a few inaccuracies or >>> inconsistencies? >>> >>> By the way, kudos on playing the "traditional Native lifestyle" card! >>> Now if >>> we really gave a crap about their lifestyle we'd enforce broken >>> treaties and >>> give back stolen lands. >>> >>> BTW most fur isn't trapped by natives. Or from North America. Or even >>> trapped. The vast majority of pelts sold are from European and Asian >>> fur >>> farms. Just so you know... >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> frank >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On November 25, 2015 12:09:49 AM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" >>> wrote: >>>> They were protesting a store, Frank. What does this site have to do >>>> with the store they were protesting -- or any of the legitimate >> stores >>>> that PETA demonstrates against? >>>> >>>> Quite frankly, there will
Re: PESO - The Protestor
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals, great apes to be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the earth, we have evolved from ancestors to our current form. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 9:41:37 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >Do you consider humans to be part of the evolutionary scale? > >Alan C > >-Original Message- >From: knarf >Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:28 PM >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >We were talking about protesters and anti-fur, but you correctly >surmise >that I am sympathetic to their cause. And yes, many of the protesters >we met >on Sunday are vegans, some of whom we've met at vegan events. > >We've discussed my dietary veganism before, and while there are no >"rules", >ethical vegans normally take the position that it is wrong to exploit >animals. For that reason we do not knowingly consume animal products, >and >that extends beyond diet. I do not want to use any product that came >from an >animal: that includes leather, wool, silk, etc. It gets tricky because >some >glues have animal products. Some beer has fish - derived isinglas (a >foaming agent). Sometimes one really has to research to make sure they >are >not unwittingly exploiting animals. > >As for my shoes, I mostly wear canvas running shoes (Converse Chuck >Taylor's >to be exact) and my dress shoes are synthetic that have the look (but >not >cruelty) of leather. > >Thanks for asking. > >And by "native" we were referring to North America's First Nations >people , >the descendants of those who greeted the first Europeans when they >arrived >here. We used to call them "Indians" because many early explorers were >geographically challenged. That term is no longer used as we now >reserve it >for those who are actually from the country India. > >Cheers, > >frank > >On November 25, 2015 2:36:11 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >>What about your leather shoes? And what is a native? >> >>Alan C >> >>-Original Message- >>From: knarf >>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 7:49 AM >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor >> >>You said "no store sells fur". I found one that does. I didn't say >Holt >> >>Renfrew in Toronto sells wolf coats. I was making answer to a very >>specific >>statement you made. >> >>That being said, most wolf fur sold is ~not~ for coats, it's trim. >>There's >>every possibility that there are coats in Holt's with wolf trim. And >>even if >>there isn't, they do sell fur. That's what the protest was generally >>about, >>the sale of any fur. Their placards educated about the fur industry as >>a >>whole, including coyote fur, which is far more commonly sold. >> >>Why are you getting so hung up on details? Does that diminish the >>protest >>for you in some way, if you feel can find a few inaccuracies or >>inconsistencies? >> >>By the way, kudos on playing the "traditional Native lifestyle" card! >>Now if >>we really gave a crap about their lifestyle we'd enforce broken >>treaties and >>give back stolen lands. >> >>BTW most fur isn't trapped by natives. Or from North America. Or even >>trapped. The vast majority of pelts sold are from European and Asian >>fur >>farms. Just so you know... >> >> >>Cheers, >> >>frank >> >> >> >> >>On November 25, 2015 12:09:49 AM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" >> wrote: >>>They were protesting a store, Frank. What does this site have to do >>>with the store they were protesting -- or any of the legitimate >stores >>>that PETA demonstrates against? >>> >>>Quite frankly, there will always be wolves and other species that can >>>be hunted and used under certain circumstances, especially by native >>>peoples, Preserving their traditional life style is more important. >>>Dan Matyola >>>http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >>> >>> >>>On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:44 PM, knarf >>>wrote: >>>> http://www.peterpalms.com/wolf/ >>>> >>>> Probably made up by some PETA looney to discredit the fur >>industry... >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> frank >>>> >>>> On November 24, 2015 10:33:59 PM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" >>> wrote: >>>
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Do you consider humans to be part of the evolutionary scale? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:28 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor We were talking about protesters and anti-fur, but you correctly surmise that I am sympathetic to their cause. And yes, many of the protesters we met on Sunday are vegans, some of whom we've met at vegan events. We've discussed my dietary veganism before, and while there are no "rules", ethical vegans normally take the position that it is wrong to exploit animals. For that reason we do not knowingly consume animal products, and that extends beyond diet. I do not want to use any product that came from an animal: that includes leather, wool, silk, etc. It gets tricky because some glues have animal products. Some beer has fish - derived isinglas (a foaming agent). Sometimes one really has to research to make sure they are not unwittingly exploiting animals. As for my shoes, I mostly wear canvas running shoes (Converse Chuck Taylor's to be exact) and my dress shoes are synthetic that have the look (but not cruelty) of leather. Thanks for asking. And by "native" we were referring to North America's First Nations people , the descendants of those who greeted the first Europeans when they arrived here. We used to call them "Indians" because many early explorers were geographically challenged. That term is no longer used as we now reserve it for those who are actually from the country India. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 2:36:11 AM EST, Alan C wrote: What about your leather shoes? And what is a native? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 7:49 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor You said "no store sells fur". I found one that does. I didn't say Holt Renfrew in Toronto sells wolf coats. I was making answer to a very specific statement you made. That being said, most wolf fur sold is ~not~ for coats, it's trim. There's every possibility that there are coats in Holt's with wolf trim. And even if there isn't, they do sell fur. That's what the protest was generally about, the sale of any fur. Their placards educated about the fur industry as a whole, including coyote fur, which is far more commonly sold. Why are you getting so hung up on details? Does that diminish the protest for you in some way, if you feel can find a few inaccuracies or inconsistencies? By the way, kudos on playing the "traditional Native lifestyle" card! Now if we really gave a crap about their lifestyle we'd enforce broken treaties and give back stolen lands. BTW most fur isn't trapped by natives. Or from North America. Or even trapped. The vast majority of pelts sold are from European and Asian fur farms. Just so you know... Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 12:09:49 AM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: They were protesting a store, Frank. What does this site have to do with the store they were protesting -- or any of the legitimate stores that PETA demonstrates against? Quite frankly, there will always be wolves and other species that can be hunted and used under certain circumstances, especially by native peoples, Preserving their traditional life style is more important. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:44 PM, knarf wrote: http://www.peterpalms.com/wolf/ Probably made up by some PETA looney to discredit the fur industry... Cheers, frank On November 24, 2015 10:33:59 PM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: I think that's wolf fur. On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault wrote: As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this kind of sums it up: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pd
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Thanks, Rick! Much appreciated. Cheers, frank On November 24, 2015 2:58:22 PM EST, Rick Womer wrote: >Very good photojournalism, Frank. > >Rick >http://photo.net/photos/RickW > > >On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 2:47 PM, knarf >wrote: >> Thank you for actually commenting on the photo! LOL! >> >> Much appreciated. >> >> :-) >> >> Cheers, >> >> frank >> >> On November 24, 2015 2:10:04 PM EST, Bulent Celasun > wrote: >>>Her expression fits the subject. >>>The composition summarizes the event faithfully. >>>Overall, an effective documentary image. >>> >>>Bulent >>>- >>>http://patoloji.gen.tr >>>http://celasun.wordpress.com/ >>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/ >>>http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822 >>>http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/bulentcelasun >>> >>> >>>2015-11-24 2:43 GMT+02:00 frank theriault : As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in >>>front of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group >>>was protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this kind of sums it up: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >>>and follow the directions. >> >> -- >> >> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson >> >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >and follow the directions. -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
We were talking about protesters and anti-fur, but you correctly surmise that I am sympathetic to their cause. And yes, many of the protesters we met on Sunday are vegans, some of whom we've met at vegan events. We've discussed my dietary veganism before, and while there are no "rules", ethical vegans normally take the position that it is wrong to exploit animals. For that reason we do not knowingly consume animal products, and that extends beyond diet. I do not want to use any product that came from an animal: that includes leather, wool, silk, etc. It gets tricky because some glues have animal products. Some beer has fish - derived isinglas (a foaming agent). Sometimes one really has to research to make sure they are not unwittingly exploiting animals. As for my shoes, I mostly wear canvas running shoes (Converse Chuck Taylor's to be exact) and my dress shoes are synthetic that have the look (but not cruelty) of leather. Thanks for asking. And by "native" we were referring to North America's First Nations people , the descendants of those who greeted the first Europeans when they arrived here. We used to call them "Indians" because many early explorers were geographically challenged. That term is no longer used as we now reserve it for those who are actually from the country India. Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 2:36:11 AM EST, Alan C wrote: >What about your leather shoes? And what is a native? > >Alan C > >-Original Message- >From: knarf >Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 7:49 AM >To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >You said "no store sells fur". I found one that does. I didn't say Holt > >Renfrew in Toronto sells wolf coats. I was making answer to a very >specific >statement you made. > >That being said, most wolf fur sold is ~not~ for coats, it's trim. >There's >every possibility that there are coats in Holt's with wolf trim. And >even if >there isn't, they do sell fur. That's what the protest was generally >about, >the sale of any fur. Their placards educated about the fur industry as >a >whole, including coyote fur, which is far more commonly sold. > >Why are you getting so hung up on details? Does that diminish the >protest >for you in some way, if you feel can find a few inaccuracies or >inconsistencies? > >By the way, kudos on playing the "traditional Native lifestyle" card! >Now if >we really gave a crap about their lifestyle we'd enforce broken >treaties and >give back stolen lands. > >BTW most fur isn't trapped by natives. Or from North America. Or even >trapped. The vast majority of pelts sold are from European and Asian >fur >farms. Just so you know... > > >Cheers, > >frank > > > > >On November 25, 2015 12:09:49 AM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" > wrote: >>They were protesting a store, Frank. What does this site have to do >>with the store they were protesting -- or any of the legitimate stores >>that PETA demonstrates against? >> >>Quite frankly, there will always be wolves and other species that can >>be hunted and used under certain circumstances, especially by native >>peoples, Preserving their traditional life style is more important. >>Dan Matyola >>http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >> >> >>On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:44 PM, knarf >>wrote: >>> http://www.peterpalms.com/wolf/ >>> >>> Probably made up by some PETA looney to discredit the fur >industry... >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> frank >>> >>> On November 24, 2015 10:33:59 PM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" >> wrote: >>>>No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. >>>> >>>>Dan Matyola >>>>http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >>>> >>>> >>>>On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John >wrote: >>>>> I think that's wolf fur. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan Matyola >>>>>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in >>>>f
Re: PESO - The Protestor
What about your leather shoes? And what is a native? Alan C -Original Message- From: knarf Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 7:49 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor You said "no store sells fur". I found one that does. I didn't say Holt Renfrew in Toronto sells wolf coats. I was making answer to a very specific statement you made. That being said, most wolf fur sold is ~not~ for coats, it's trim. There's every possibility that there are coats in Holt's with wolf trim. And even if there isn't, they do sell fur. That's what the protest was generally about, the sale of any fur. Their placards educated about the fur industry as a whole, including coyote fur, which is far more commonly sold. Why are you getting so hung up on details? Does that diminish the protest for you in some way, if you feel can find a few inaccuracies or inconsistencies? By the way, kudos on playing the "traditional Native lifestyle" card! Now if we really gave a crap about their lifestyle we'd enforce broken treaties and give back stolen lands. BTW most fur isn't trapped by natives. Or from North America. Or even trapped. The vast majority of pelts sold are from European and Asian fur farms. Just so you know... Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 12:09:49 AM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: They were protesting a store, Frank. What does this site have to do with the store they were protesting -- or any of the legitimate stores that PETA demonstrates against? Quite frankly, there will always be wolves and other species that can be hunted and used under certain circumstances, especially by native peoples, Preserving their traditional life style is more important. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:44 PM, knarf wrote: http://www.peterpalms.com/wolf/ Probably made up by some PETA looney to discredit the fur industry... Cheers, frank On November 24, 2015 10:33:59 PM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: I think that's wolf fur. On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault wrote: As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this kind of sums it up: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
You said "no store sells fur". I found one that does. I didn't say Holt Renfrew in Toronto sells wolf coats. I was making answer to a very specific statement you made. That being said, most wolf fur sold is ~not~ for coats, it's trim. There's every possibility that there are coats in Holt's with wolf trim. And even if there isn't, they do sell fur. That's what the protest was generally about, the sale of any fur. Their placards educated about the fur industry as a whole, including coyote fur, which is far more commonly sold. Why are you getting so hung up on details? Does that diminish the protest for you in some way, if you feel can find a few inaccuracies or inconsistencies? By the way, kudos on playing the "traditional Native lifestyle" card! Now if we really gave a crap about their lifestyle we'd enforce broken treaties and give back stolen lands. BTW most fur isn't trapped by natives. Or from North America. Or even trapped. The vast majority of pelts sold are from European and Asian fur farms. Just so you know... Cheers, frank On November 25, 2015 12:09:49 AM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: >They were protesting a store, Frank. What does this site have to do >with the store they were protesting -- or any of the legitimate stores >that PETA demonstrates against? > >Quite frankly, there will always be wolves and other species that can >be hunted and used under certain circumstances, especially by native >peoples, Preserving their traditional life style is more important. >Dan Matyola >http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola > > >On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:44 PM, knarf >wrote: >> http://www.peterpalms.com/wolf/ >> >> Probably made up by some PETA looney to discredit the fur industry... >> >> Cheers, >> >> frank >> >> On November 24, 2015 10:33:59 PM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" > wrote: >>>No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. >>> >>>Dan Matyola >>>http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >>> >>> >>>On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: I think that's wolf fur. On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: > > Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. > > > Dan Matyola > http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola > > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault > wrote: >> >> As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in >>>front >> of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights >group >>>was >> protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells >it: >> >> I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, >this >> kind of sums it up: >> >> http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html >> >> Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence >> around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. >> >> Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. >> >> cheers, >> >> frank >> >> >> >> -- >> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson >> -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >>>and follow the directions. >> >> -- >> >> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson >> >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >and follow the directions. -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
They were protesting a store, Frank. What does this site have to do with the store they were protesting -- or any of the legitimate stores that PETA demonstrates against? Quite frankly, there will always be wolves and other species that can be hunted and used under certain circumstances, especially by native peoples, Preserving their traditional life style is more important. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:44 PM, knarf wrote: > http://www.peterpalms.com/wolf/ > > Probably made up by some PETA looney to discredit the fur industry... > > Cheers, > > frank > > On November 24, 2015 10:33:59 PM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" > wrote: >>No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. >> >>Dan Matyola >>http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >> >> >>On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: >>> I think that's wolf fur. >>> >>> >>> On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault wrote: > > As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in >>front > of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group >>was > protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: > > I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this > kind of sums it up: > > http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html > > Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence > around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. > > Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. > > cheers, > > frank > > > > -- > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Science - Questions we may never find answers for. >>> Religion - Answers we must never question. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >>and >>> follow the directions. > > -- > > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson > > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
It is available from several Alaskan sources. I've considered buying a wolf pelt. -Original Message- >From: "Daniel J. Matyola" >Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor > >No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. > >Dan Matyola >http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola > > >On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: >> I think that's wolf fur. >> >> >> On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: >>> >>> Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. >>> >>> >>> Dan Matyola >>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front >>>> of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was >>>> protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: >>>> >>>> I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this >>>> kind of sums it up: >>>> >>>> http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html >>>> >>>> Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence >>>> around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. >>>> >>>> Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> >>>> frank >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson >>>> >> >> >> -- >> Science - Questions we may never find answers for. >> Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
http://www.peterpalms.com/wolf/ Probably made up by some PETA looney to discredit the fur industry... Cheers, frank On November 24, 2015 10:33:59 PM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: >No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. > >Dan Matyola >http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola > > >On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: >> I think that's wolf fur. >> >> >> On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: >>> >>> Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. >>> >>> >>> Dan Matyola >>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault >>> wrote: As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in >front of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group >was protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this kind of sums it up: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson >> >> >> -- >> Science - Questions we may never find answers for. >> Religion - Answers we must never question. >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >and >> follow the directions. -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
No store sells wolf fur. Pure propaganda. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:36 PM, John wrote: > I think that's wolf fur. > > > On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: >> >> Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. >> >> >> Dan Matyola >> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault >> wrote: >>> >>> As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front >>> of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was >>> protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: >>> >>> I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this >>> kind of sums it up: >>> >>> http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html >>> >>> Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence >>> around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. >>> >>> Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> frank >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson >>> > > > -- > Science - Questions we may never find answers for. > Religion - Answers we must never question. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
I think that's wolf fur. On 11/23/2015 11:47 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault wrote: As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this kind of sums it up: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
oh a Coyote! - . missing the color and just seeing the head I didn't recognize himor add him to who I thought the canine might be.. I've photographed themin Alaska , kind of made friends with one there.. and also in the snow at Yellowstone back in 1989 too. Don't have any on the computer ... That's anice shot of the oneliving near you. They are making quite a strong appearance in NYC actually these days, not so exotic... Had no idea they were ever used for fur though... just thought that farmers and ranchers were after them because the coyotes were killing their stock ... of course it makes sense .. ann On 11/24/2015 6:52 PM, frank theriault wrote: Hi Ann, I am quite certain that's a coyote. They look a lot like German Shephards - at least facially. Here's a Coyote that lives in the lakeside park near my place: http://knarfdummyblog.blogspot.ca/2015/02/coyote-beautiful.html Coyotes are often grey or brown. According to: http://www.respectforanimals.co.uk/facts-and-reports/statistics/103/ 47,340 is the total number of coyote pelts (presumably combined trap and ranched) that Canada "produced" in 2,009, the last year reliable figures were available. As for the composition, thanks for your thoughts. I have many more that are wider, I felt that the tight shot on this one added impact. I'll post another one tonight. Perhaps you'll like that one more. :-) Thanks for taking the time to comment! cheers, frank On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 6:30 PM, ann sanfedele wrote: It took me a while to figure out that the photo is of the head of a dog next to a pup that looks like a german shepard, or a mix and her pup...possibly supposed to be a wolf? certainly not a fox, mink, sable, etc. animals that would not be harvested for fur garments.. so what doesn't work so well (regardless of which side of the arguement you are on ) is that the poster maker appears not to have known what animals are used in making fur garments... and sadly that the protester is probably clueless in that regard as well... I don't think there are 47,000 doggies trapped annually From a compositional point of view only, I'd like it to be less tightly cropped.. ann On 11/24/2015 2:58 PM, Rick Womer wrote: Very good photojournalism, Frank. Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 2:47 PM, knarf wrote: Thank you for actually commenting on the photo! LOL! Much appreciated. :-) Cheers, frank On November 24, 2015 2:10:04 PM EST, Bulent Celasun wrote: Her expression fits the subject. The composition summarizes the event faithfully. Overall, an effective documentary image. Bulent - http://patoloji.gen.tr http://celasun.wordpress.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/ http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/bulentcelasun 2015-11-24 2:43 GMT+02:00 frank theriault : As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this kind of sums it up: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Hi Ann, I am quite certain that's a coyote. They look a lot like German Shephards - at least facially. Here's a Coyote that lives in the lakeside park near my place: http://knarfdummyblog.blogspot.ca/2015/02/coyote-beautiful.html Coyotes are often grey or brown. According to: http://www.respectforanimals.co.uk/facts-and-reports/statistics/103/ 47,340 is the total number of coyote pelts (presumably combined trap and ranched) that Canada "produced" in 2,009, the last year reliable figures were available. As for the composition, thanks for your thoughts. I have many more that are wider, I felt that the tight shot on this one added impact. I'll post another one tonight. Perhaps you'll like that one more. :-) Thanks for taking the time to comment! cheers, frank On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 6:30 PM, ann sanfedele wrote: > It took me a while to figure out that the photo is of the head of a dog next > to a pup that looks like a german shepard, or a mix > and her pup...possibly supposed to be a wolf? certainly not a fox, mink, > sable, etc. animals that would not be harvested for fur garments.. > so what doesn't work so well (regardless of which side of the arguement you > are on ) is that the poster maker appears not to have known > what animals are used in making fur garments... and sadly that the protester > is probably clueless in that regard as well... > > I don't think there are 47,000 doggies trapped annually > > From a compositional point of view only, I'd like it to be less tightly > cropped.. > > ann > > > On 11/24/2015 2:58 PM, Rick Womer wrote: >> >> Very good photojournalism, Frank. >> >> Rick >> http://photo.net/photos/RickW >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 2:47 PM, knarf wrote: >>> >>> Thank you for actually commenting on the photo! LOL! >>> >>> Much appreciated. >>> >>> :-) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> frank >>> >>> On November 24, 2015 2:10:04 PM EST, Bulent Celasun >>> wrote: Her expression fits the subject. The composition summarizes the event faithfully. Overall, an effective documentary image. Bulent - http://patoloji.gen.tr http://celasun.wordpress.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/ http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/bulentcelasun 2015-11-24 2:43 GMT+02:00 frank theriault : > > As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front > > of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was > > protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: > > I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this > kind of sums it up: > > http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html > > Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence > around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. > > Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. > > cheers, > > frank > > > > -- > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson >>> >>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
It took me a while to figure out that the photo is of the head of a dog next to a pup that looks like a german shepard, or a mix and her pup...possibly supposed to be a wolf? certainly not a fox, mink, sable, etc. animals that would not be harvested for fur garments.. so what doesn't work so well (regardless of which side of the arguement you are on ) is that the poster maker appears not to have known what animals are used in making fur garments... and sadly that the protester is probably clueless in that regard as well... I don't think there are 47,000 doggies trapped annually From a compositional point of view only, I'd like it to be less tightly cropped.. ann On 11/24/2015 2:58 PM, Rick Womer wrote: Very good photojournalism, Frank. Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 2:47 PM, knarf wrote: Thank you for actually commenting on the photo! LOL! Much appreciated. :-) Cheers, frank On November 24, 2015 2:10:04 PM EST, Bulent Celasun wrote: Her expression fits the subject. The composition summarizes the event faithfully. Overall, an effective documentary image. Bulent - http://patoloji.gen.tr http://celasun.wordpress.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/ http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/bulentcelasun 2015-11-24 2:43 GMT+02:00 frank theriault : As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this kind of sums it up: http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Very good photojournalism, Frank. Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 2:47 PM, knarf wrote: > Thank you for actually commenting on the photo! LOL! > > Much appreciated. > > :-) > > Cheers, > > frank > > On November 24, 2015 2:10:04 PM EST, Bulent Celasun > wrote: >>Her expression fits the subject. >>The composition summarizes the event faithfully. >>Overall, an effective documentary image. >> >>Bulent >>- >>http://patoloji.gen.tr >>http://celasun.wordpress.com/ >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/ >>http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822 >>http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/bulentcelasun >> >> >>2015-11-24 2:43 GMT+02:00 frank theriault : >>> As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in >>front >>> of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group >>was >>> protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: >>> >>> I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this >>> kind of sums it up: >>> >>> http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html >>> >>> Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence >>> around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. >>> >>> Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> frank >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >>and follow the directions. > > -- > > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson > > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Thank you for actually commenting on the photo! LOL! Much appreciated. :-) Cheers, frank On November 24, 2015 2:10:04 PM EST, Bulent Celasun wrote: >Her expression fits the subject. >The composition summarizes the event faithfully. >Overall, an effective documentary image. > >Bulent >- >http://patoloji.gen.tr >http://celasun.wordpress.com/ >http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/ >http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822 >http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/bulentcelasun > > >2015-11-24 2:43 GMT+02:00 frank theriault : >> As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in >front >> of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group >was >> protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: >> >> I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this >> kind of sums it up: >> >> http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html >> >> Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence >> around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. >> >> Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. >> >> cheers, >> >> frank >> >> >> >> -- >> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >and follow the directions. -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Her expression fits the subject. The composition summarizes the event faithfully. Overall, an effective documentary image. Bulent - http://patoloji.gen.tr http://celasun.wordpress.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/ http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/bulentcelasun 2015-11-24 2:43 GMT+02:00 frank theriault : > As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front > of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was > protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: > > I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this > kind of sums it up: > > http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html > > Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence > around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. > > Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. > > cheers, > > frank > > > > -- > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
They don't look like rodents to me. The animals on that placard look very much like canines. And honestly, Dan maybe you don't have a problem with fur or the fur industry, I don't want get into that right now, but the "there are starving babies out there" argument is so facile I'm surprised you'd use it. Using that argument no one should ever take issue with any social problem because there are "starving babies" out there. And of course maybe those protesters (or at least some of them) do protest against starving babies. Or work at food banks, help single moms, do all sorts of ground level activism that helps children and youth and even starving babies. The vast majority of social activists I know are involved with more than one issue. And even if they aren't, surely they're allowed to express their disgust on any issue they please. Of course the beauty of free speech is that you have the right to disagree with them and I thank you for commenting on my photo. Cheers, frank On November 23, 2015 11:47:51 PM EST, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: >Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. > > >Dan Matyola >http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola > > >On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault > wrote: >> As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in >front >> of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group >was >> protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: >> >> I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this >> kind of sums it up: >> >> http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html >> >> Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence >> around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. >> >> Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. >> >> cheers, >> >> frank >> >> >> >> -- >> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above >and follow the directions. -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: PESO - The Protestor
Children are dying of malnutrition; they protest about rodents. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:43 PM, frank theriault wrote: > As we walked downtown yesterday we saw a bunch of police cars in front > of Holt's, a very upscale department store. An animal rights group was > protesting fur in general, but also the fact that Holt's sells it: > > I'll likely have a gallery later in the week, but until then, this > kind of sums it up: > > http://knarfinthecity.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-protestor.html > > Fur trim on parkas and coats is unfortunately seeing a resurgence > around these parts. I'll keep political thoughts to myself. > > Hope you enjoy. Comments welcome. > > cheers, > > frank > > > > -- > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
