Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the Mormon church codified the belief of us as second class is distasteful.

  I am not concerned about how the Mormans see blacks. I am syaing that non 
blacks don't like Mormons because they see it as a cult.  They question how a 
man could receuve instruction and write a book that rivals the bibile. That is 
they way alot of non Mormans see it. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:23:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the polls show that he is poised to beat Hilary.

 
 
So a biracial man can win. So what is the big deal. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

damn! and thought I was up late. I've been up for 23 hours straight (hard drive 
failure on main server at work, had to wait until everyone was done using it, 
then  stayed 'til 1 am fixing it). 

what's your excuse?!

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the Mormon church codified the belief of us as second class is distasteful.

I am not concerned about how the Mormans see blacks. I am syaing that non 
blacks don't like Mormons because they see it as a cult. They question how a 
man could receuve instruction and write a book that rivals the bibile. That is 
they way alot of non Mormans see it. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

i hear you, but that's my point: as ludicrous as it sounds to some, it's no 
more or less hard to swallow--to some--than the whole concept of Jesus or the 
One God in the first place. My agnostic/atheist friends would lump all of us 
believers into the same crazed group.

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the Mormon church codified the belief of us as second class is distasteful.

I am not concerned about how the Mormans see blacks. I am syaing that non 
blacks don't like Mormons because they see it as a cult. They question how a 
man could receuve instruction and write a book that rivals the bibile. That is 
they way alot of non Mormans see it. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 4:19:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

what's your excuse?!

I stayed up late.  I have been getting up really early these past few months. 
 I usually get up around 4"30 to exercise. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 4:49:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

wow, that's great. what kind of exercise do you do that early each day?

I was just logging off just to go on the treadmill. 
 
 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

wow, that's great. what kind of exercise do you do that early each day?

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 4:19:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

what's your excuse?!

I stayed up late. I have been getting up really early these past few months. 
I usually get up around 4"30 to exercise. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Happy New Year

[Martin]

No pics of those, please. No offense, Tracey, but that brings back the Bad Old 
Days of Technonerdom, when Nuclear Wedgies were the order of the day...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   What's with all the neon 
leather thongs?!
 
 Tracey said:
 
 > freakazoid!
 >
 > James Landrith wrote:
 >> (rifles through underwear drawer)
 >>
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Never did think much of Romney. (Not that I think much of *any* Republican, 
mind you.) He's slick, *Too* slick. If we're not damn careful, we could be 
calling him President Romney. (If that happens, at least I'm friends with his 
cousin...)

I thought Edwards would pull out the win, too, based on the polls. Something I 
should've known better than to accept, knowing instinctively that such things 
are rarely accurate (polls mostly being about asking the people a pollster 
*wants* to ask the question of, not gaining a true representative sample). Also 
saw that Biden and Dodd have both dropped out of the race on the Democratic 
side. A shame, that, because now there's no real force for change in the 
running (Kucinich is there, yes, but who even knows him?). Whoever wins will, 
unfortunately, be more of the same, and my Yahu addy will end in .ca instead of 
.com, because I'll be a Canadian citizen.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   Wow, i thought Edwards 
would take first place by a percentage point over Obama, with Hillary in third. 
I had Huckabee, Romney, and McCain as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama 
pulled off a major upset. Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a 
real fundamentalist Christian in some ways, but supportive of environmental 
issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and pretty well respected by many 
Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could get with Romney, not because he's a 
Mormon, but because his positions have flip-flopped more than anyone in the 
last few years. Talk about an opportunistic chamelon.
 
 Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire 
might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the 
southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be 
looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I 
still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man 
named Obama
 But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
 
 
 http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
 
 With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent of 
voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary 
Clinton.
 "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and 
change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
 Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut 
and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House 
runs.
 Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the 
fight to New Hampshire."
 For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats 
versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
 On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according 
to CNN's analysis of entrance polls. 
 Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in history." 
 "You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and 
say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has 
come." 
 Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among 
evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate. 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

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Re: [scifinoir2] Sleep

[Martin]

Now *there's* a combination for dreamtime...

"Maurice C. Jennings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:   
See ya.  Gotta go watch 'Third Watch' and 'The Waltons'...
  
  Maurice Jennings
 Have you or someone you know been threatened with foreclosure?
 KEEP your home and  Stop Foreclosure in its Tracks!
 Get a Free, No Obligation Evaluation => http://www.legacyhomesavers.com
  
  
  
  
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Gymfig, in *this* country, it's Mount Everest being climbed by a six-year-old.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:23:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 the polls show that he is poised to beat Hilary.
 
 So a biracial man can win. So what is the big deal. 
 
 **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
 http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

In all honesty, learning this came as a shock to me. When I was in college, one 
of my best friends was Mormon (and I attended Virginia State, an HCBU), and we 
were almost inseparable. He never showed any inclinations of thinking of me, or 
anyone else in our cadre, as second-class anything.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 the Mormon church codified the belief of us as second class is distasteful.
 
 I am not concerned about how the Mormans see blacks. I am syaing that non 
 blacks don't like Mormons because they see it as a cult.  They question how a 
 man could receuve instruction and write a book that rivals the bibile. That is 
 they way alot of non Mormans see it. 
 
 **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
 http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Movies Watched Over The Holiday

[Martin]

No, Keith, but Rocky Carroll, of "Roc" fame, and Gloria Reuben were both in it.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0285332/



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   was Morris Chestnut in 
that one? He was in a shortlived show about some law agency
 
 -- Original message -- 
 From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
 More than welcome. And, frankly, you didn't miss much. It was really glossed 
over, IMO. Saccharin, at times. Only one decent character in the bunch, the 
field-op guy, A.B. Stiles, if memory serves. He would never say what the A.B. 
stood for, true spook he was. Once hinted that it might mean "Absolute B*stard".
 
 maidmarian_thepoet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yeah, that was it. I never 
watched it.
 Thanks.
 
 --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >
 > Marian, that was CBS, doing "The Agency".
 > 
 > maidmarian_thepoet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I guess that I 
 am all over the place:
 > 
 > The Butterfly Effect: Director's Cut - liked it. 
 > It has its problems, but the writers put some thought into the 
 > movie. 
 > The Orchestra of Piazza Vittorio 
 > Sweet. Is honest about the problems of community involvement
 > in a democracy.
 > MI-5, vol 2
 > I am enjoying this BBC tv series. I don't think that this 
 > would work here. (In fact, didn't a network try to make a series 
 > about the CIA?) MI-5 is still a good-guy in the BBC. No way that I 
 > could see the CIA as purely a good-guy. A USA series would have to 
 be 
 > more like "The Shield"--which I never watched either.
 > 
 > Sweeney Todd
 > I've already raved about this.
 > I am Legend
 > Already talked about.
 > 
 > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly 
 > Tracey L. Minor)"  wrote:
 > >
 > > Hey Gang:
 > > 
 > > What movies did you watch over the holidays? The would include in 
 > the 
 > > theatre, on DVD, and on TV. What movies did you like and which 
 were 
 > duds?
 > >
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels 
 will get organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A 
 Man Without A Country"
 > 
 > -
 > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. 
 Try it now.
 > 
 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >
 
 "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
 
 -
 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [scifinoir2] Happy New Year

[Martin]

Take lots of pictures... ;)

Reece Jennings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:   
U...YEAH!  SHAME on you!  (Pt!!! Lemme see!)
  
  Maurice Jennings
 Have you or someone you know been threatened with foreclosure?
 KEEP your home and  Stop Foreclosure in its Tracks!
 Get a Free, No Obligation Evaluation => http://www.legacyhomesavers.com
  
  
  
  
 
 _  
 
 From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)
 Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:53 PM
 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Happy New Year
 
 freakazoid! 
 
 James Landrith wrote:
 > (rifles through underwear drawer)
 >
 >
 > On Jan 3, 2008, at 12:46 PM, "Reece Jennings" 
 > mailto:mcjennings124%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> wrote:
 >
 > 
 >> Ok...Yes, that's true...that means we're ALL in her room? YIKES!
 >> (tiptoeing out behind Martin)...
 >>
 >> Maurice Jennings
 >> Have you or someone you know been threatened with foreclosure?
 >> KEEP your home and Stop Foreclosure in its Tracks!
 >> Get a Free, No Obligation Evaluation => http:// 
 >> www.legacyhomesavers.com
 >>  mesavers.com/>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> _
 >>
 >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ups.com] 
 >> On
 >> Behalf Of Martin
 >> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:43 AM
 >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ups.com
 >> Subject: RE: [scifinoir2] Happy New Year
 >>
 >> Pssst...
 >>
 >> Reece, this is Tracey's group. Legally speaking, this *is* her room...
 >>
 >> Martin (tiptoeing out)
 >>
 >> Reece Jennings mailto:mcjennings124%40yahoo.com> 
 >> yahoo.com>
 >> wrote: GET A ROOM!!!
 >>
 >> Maurice Jennings
 >> Have you or someone you know been threatened with foreclosure?
 >> KEEP your home and Stop Foreclosure in its Tracks!
 >> Get a Free, No Obligation Evaluation => http://www.legacyho
 >>  mesavers.com>
 mesavers.com
 >>  mesavers.com/> mesavers.com/>
 >>
 >> _
 >>
 >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 >> ups.com
 >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 >> ups.com]
 >> On
 >> Behalf Of Astromancer
 >> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:15 AM
 >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ups.com
 >> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Happy New Year
 >>
 >> Love to give it (wink!)
 >>
 >> "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >>  aladvantage.com> 
 >> wrote: I just
 >> love the flattery (batting eyes)
 >>
 >> Astromancer wrote:
 >> 
 >>> I kept coming back for the sexy owner...
 >>>
 >>> "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >>> 
 >>  aladvantage.com> 
 >> wrote: Back
 >> at you! You guys are great!
 >> 
 >>> Daryle wrote:
 >>>
 >>> 
  This is my absolute favorite online community of all time. It is 
  
 >> also now
 >> 
  the only one I actively contribute to.
 
  Thank you all for a fun and interesting year.
 
  May you all have a safe and prosperous 2008.
 
 
  Daryle
 
 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 >>>
 >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> "Akin, but no matter what you think, I am concerned for your life, 
 >>> 
 >> so I'll
 >> only say this once; if you talk too much or ask too many questions, 
 >> you
 >> might say something that interests the Community, and you really, 
 >> really
 >> don't want to get them interested." - The Side Street Chonicles by 
 >> C.W.
 >> Badie
 >> 
 >>> -
 >>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. 
 >>> 
 >> Try it
 >> now.
 >> 
 >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> 
 >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >>
 >> "Akin, but no matter what you think, I am concerned for your life, 
 >> so I'll
 >> only say this once; if you talk too much or ask too many questions, 
 >> you
 >> might say something that interests the Community, and you really, 
 >> really
 >> don't want to get them interested." - The Side Street Chonicles by 
 >> C.W.
 >> Badie
 >>
 >> -
 >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! 
 >> Search.
 >>
 >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >>
 >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >>
 >> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only a

[scifinoir2] Advanced life craeted in two ancient explosions

[Amy Harlib]

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cool science stuff.

 Advanced life created in two ancient explosions


URL to an interesting article from MSNBC
_http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22491153/_
(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22491153/)

First few paragraph
"
New study details rapid burst in evolution during the Ediacaran Period



By Dave Mosher



updated 2:53 p.m.  CT, Thurs., Jan. 3, 2008

Complex life on Earth may have  blossomed during two "explosions," not one, 
a
new study suggests.
Earth's biggest species  diversification occurred 542 million years ago,
during what's called the  Cambrian explosion. But a similar and rapid burst 
in
_evolution_ 
(http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/070816_gm_evolution.html)
occurred 33 million years prior, researchers now  think. They've dubbed the
event the Avalon explosion.
“It now appears that at the dawn  of the macroscopic life, between 575 and
520 million years ago, there was not  one, but at least two major episodes 
of
abrupt morphological expansion," said  Shuhai Xiao, a paleontologist at 
Virginia
Tech.





The new study, detailed in the  Jan. 4 issue of the journal Science, 
examines
life during Ediacaran Period on  Earth, between 635 million years and 542
million years ago. The authors compared  200 different species to reveal 
that
their body types — and richness of  diversity — appeared at around the same
time.
Despite the first boost in  diversity, however, the Ediacaran creatures all
but vanished before the Cambrian  explosion that followed.
"The Avalon explosion represents  an independent, failed _experiment_
(http://www.livescience.com/history/071204-life-sandwich.html)  with an 
evolutionary
pattern similar to that of the  Cambrian explosion," the authors said."

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 8:01:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Gymfig, in *this* country, it's Mount Everest being climbed by a six-year-old.

A man beating a woman is NOTHING new



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Keith, I think that just that will happen, when either the Obama/Clinton or 
Clinton/Obama ticket takes the White House. The two have set themselves up as 
the perfect running mates.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   or a Black man. the only 
thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same ticket! no way America'd 
elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!
 
 -- Original message -- 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 But I could be wrong--I certainly was tonight!
 
 I guess we will have to wait if America is ready to elect a woman for 
 president. 
 
 **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
 http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

I just had a look at some of the voter breakdowns, and it seems that Obama won 
through youth more than gender. He's energized the kids out there. Hillary 
standing pat hurt her in the voters' eyes, IMO.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
 ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!
 
 So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?
 
 **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
 http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

This Romney thing is heavy because Romney has been the ³I¹m just like
Reagan² guy. If using the Reagan card can¹t get you the win in IOWA...you¹re
just not the guy. I have to say, I don¹t like politics, but the sports fan
in me is VERY interested in what¹s about to go down in this race.

On 1/4/08 8:21 AM, "Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> Never did think much of Romney. (Not that I think much of *any* Republican,
> mind you.) He's slick, *Too* slick. If we're not damn careful, we could be
> calling him President Romney. (If that happens, at least I'm friends with his
> cousin...)
> 
> I thought Edwards would pull out the win, too, based on the polls. Something I
> should've known better than to accept, knowing instinctively that such things
> are rarely accurate (polls mostly being about asking the people a pollster
> *wants* to ask the question of, not gaining a true representative sample).
> Also saw that Biden and Dodd have both dropped out of the race on the
> Democratic side. A shame, that, because now there's no real force for change
> in the running (Kucinich is there, yes, but who even knows him?). Whoever wins
> will, unfortunately, be more of the same, and my Yahu addy will end in .ca
> instead of .com, because I'll be a Canadian citizen.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   wrote:
> Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a percentage point over
> Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and McCain as 1-2-3,
> respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. Huckabee might have
> some real legs, given that he's a real fundamentalist Christian in some ways,
> but supportive of environmental issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and
> pretty well respected by many Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could get
> with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because his positions have
> flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about an
> opportunistic chamelon.
>  
>  Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire
> might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the
> southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be
> looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I
> still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man
> named Obama
>  But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
>  
>  
>  http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
>  
>  With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent
> of voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary
> Clinton.
>  "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and
> change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
>  Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut
> and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House
> runs.
>  Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the
> fight to New Hampshire."
>  For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats
> versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said.
>  On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according
> to CNN's analysis of entrance polls.
>  Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in
> history." 
>  "You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and
> say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has
> come." 
>  Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among
> evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate.
>  
>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get
> organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A
> Country"
>  
> -
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it
> now.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

A Black man beating a popular and connected white  woman for a major office
is BRAND new. Plain ol¹  ³A man beating a woman² = John Kerry  getting the
democratic nomination over Carol Mosley Braun. Please be clear, ³biracial²
or not, this is America. One drop rule in FULL effect. Obama is BLACK. His
wife is black, his kids are black, he¹s closer to Africa than most of the
people who will vote for him. Nobody¹s seeing him as ³biracial² except Black
people, who still see Hispanics as ³another race². This is a Black man, who
came form NO connections, NO influence, winning in IOWA. This is literally
the same thing as Mos Def becoming Prime Minister of France. It is a very
big fricken deal.


On 1/4/08 8:08 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
> A man beating a woman is NOTHING new
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)]

Amen! 

Daryle wrote:
> A Black man beating a popular and connected white  woman for a major office
> is BRAND new. Plain ol¹  ³A man beating a woman² = John Kerry  getting the
> democratic nomination over Carol Mosley Braun. Please be clear, ³biracial²
> or not, this is America. One drop rule in FULL effect. Obama is BLACK. His
> wife is black, his kids are black, he¹s closer to Africa than most of the
> people who will vote for him. Nobody¹s seeing him as ³biracial² except Black
> people, who still see Hispanics as ³another race². This is a Black man, who
> came form NO connections, NO influence, winning in IOWA. This is literally
> the same thing as Mos Def becoming Prime Minister of France. It is a very
> big fricken deal.
>
>
> On 1/4/08 8:08 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>   
>>  
>> A man beating a woman is NOTHING new
>>
>> 
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>   


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 10:21:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

A Black man beating a popular and connected white  woman for a major office
Is BRAND new. Plain old  ³A man beating a woman² = John Kerrie  getting the
Democratic nomination over Carol Mostly Braun. Please be clear, ³biracial²
Or not, this is America. One drop rule in FULL effect. Abeam is BLACK. His
wife is black, his kids are black, he¹s closer to Africa than most of the
people who will vote for him. Nobody¹s seeing him as ³biracial² except Black
people, who still see Hispanics as ³another race². This is a Black man, who
came form NO connections, NO influence, winning in IOWA. This is literally
the same thing as Mos Def becoming Prime Minister of France. It is a very
big fricken deal.

That is not true. Most WHITE Americans see him as biracial.  America will 
pick a man black or non black over a woman. It is great for mankind not for 
woman 
kind.
 
 
A black man won over a white woman in Mass. A black man will still get a job 
over a competent white woman or black woman.  I think that with the win of a 
black man it will be harder for blacks "especially black men " to play the 
victim. The old boys club does admit black men these days. It is still harder 
for 
a woman white or black to get ahead.  



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Singer Won't Do Next Superman?

[Daryle]

So we can just all pretend that "Superman Returns" never happened, then.


On 1/4/08 2:35 AM, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Singer Won't Do Next Superman?
> http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=46890
> Variety columnist Anne Thompson reported that it is "highly unlikely"
> that Superman Returns helmer Bryan Singer will return to shoot the next
> Superman movie.
> 
> Singer is finishing up Tom Cruise's Nazi film Valkyrie and prepping The
> Mayor of Castro Street.
> 
> "The next Superman we will see on the big screen will not be [Superman
> Returns star] Brandon Routh, but a younger Superman among a cast of
> youthful superheroes in ... Justice League," Thompson wrote. "That movie
> will likely not be shot, however, until after the [writers'] strike is
> resolved."
> 
> Thompson also reported details of the upcoming The Dark Knight,
> Christopher Nolan's sequel to his Batman Begins. Warner Brothers is
> hoping Nolan returns for a third installment, Thompson wrote.
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[vhenry_89147]

Tracey,

I also had feeling about how impossible it was for Obama to win a
nomination, let alone the presidency of the United States.

Perhaps his win in Iowa is an indication that my cynicism over race
relations in America can someday be quelled. Let's hope. In any event,
guess we'll see what happens in New Hampshire.

It still burns me up that some people continue to group the behavior
of Black people in one all encompassing bucket. If I fit into that
bucket, I wouldn't love science fiction the way I do, reading or
writing it. For that matter, I wouldn't practice Yoga or have studied
computer science either, right?

Veronica
--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly
Tracey L. Minor)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Me, like a lot of Blacks who have experienced racism, could not see 
> White America voting for Obama -- a Black guy.  We'd seen some real 
> racist stuff come out of even the nicest people.  Surely these people 
> could not vote for someone that has a member of a race that they 
> harbored such ugly thoughts and feelings about. .  Then tonite 
> happened.  Obama won big in a state with only 2% Blacks. After a great 
> deal of thought, I think I figured out how he won and why it is
possible 
> for him to win.  There are two factors involved:
> 
> 1.  Most people - even the nicest people have unconscious biases
against 
> people who are different from them.  This often comes in the form of 
> racism when it comes to Black/White relations.  Most of the time, they 
> are not even aware of them, nor do they cultivate these feeling, and 
> when confronted with some act that shows that the person obviously has 
> that bias, he or she will adamantly deny it, because he or she does not 
> see him or herself that way.So if you do not consciously see your 
> self as someone who dislikes Blacks, then why would you not vote for
him 
> if you thought he was the best candidate.  Think out it, theoretically 
> those people you talk to that do not believe that racism is so
prevalent 
> and that when you experience a racist act, you are being hypersensitive 
> or pulling the race card, are potential Obama voters.  i personally
know 
> one or too who seem to like Obama
> 
> 2.  When I was growing up and even as a young adult, I would meet
people 
> who really liked and seem to accept me who said to me, "You do not act 
> like a  Black person"  Or they would say some horrible thing about 
> Blacks to me.  When I would ask them then what are you doing with
me.  I 
> would here something like, "well you are not like them."  this stuff 
> used to burn me up.  I can't tell you how many people I kicked to the 
> curb over this stuff.  Now I think most Whites who feel this way, know 
> better then to express these thought out loud.  (Biden being the 
> exception )  Remember how complimentary Biden was about Obama being 
> "articulate?" I suspect that Obama has probably had many encounters
like 
> the two I described above.  He is able to blend in and be accepted by 
> people from a variety of backgrounds.  For that reason, I think people 
> who might not be overt racists - who do not see themselves as racist, 
> might not have a problem voting for him.  So its off to New Hampshire 
> and believe or now, the polls show that he is poised to beat Hilary.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a percentage
point over Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and
McCain as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major
upset. Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a real
fundamentalist Christian in some ways, but supportive of environmental
issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and pretty well respected
by many Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could get with Romney,
not because he's a Mormon, but because his positions have flip-flopped
more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about an opportunistic
chamelon.
> >
> > Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New
Hampshire might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South
Carolina and the southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep
building and we could be looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which
just might win the day, though I still have this nagging doubt that
America as a whole will elect a Black man named Obama
> > But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
> >
> > 
> > http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
> >
> > With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of
38 percent of voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29
percent for Hillary Clinton.
> > "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and
experience, and change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
> > Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of
Connecticut and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to
abandon their White H

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[ravenadal]

The Obama phenomenon is like nothing America has experienced before. 
He is one of us, but he is also one of them.  Call it the Halle Berry
factor - where she was the first "black" woman to win when she won her
oscar but how she has essentially been a white actress since -
"Catwoman," "Things we Lost in the Fire,""Tulia" (where she plays an
east indian). Her race is almost never mentioned in her current
bi-racial relationship.

Obama has black and white relatives.  A white second cousin told NPR
the story of visiting Obama at his Chicago campaign headquarters.  She
sees a photograph of a smiling, bright-eyed, elderly african dressed
in bright native costume on the wall.  Knowing Obama's father was
African, she asks him, "is that a picture of your grandmother?"  "No,"
Obama replies, "that is Nelson Mandela."

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly
Tracey L. Minor)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Me, like a lot of Blacks who have experienced racism, could not see 
> White America voting for Obama -- a Black guy.  We'd seen some real 
> racist stuff come out of even the nicest people.  Surely these people 
> could not vote for someone that has a member of a race that they 
> harbored such ugly thoughts and feelings about. .  Then tonite 
> happened.  Obama won big in a state with only 2% Blacks. After a great 
> deal of thought, I think I figured out how he won and why it is
possible 
> for him to win.  There are two factors involved:
> 
> 1.  Most people - even the nicest people have unconscious biases
against 
> people who are different from them.  This often comes in the form of 
> racism when it comes to Black/White relations.  Most of the time, they 
> are not even aware of them, nor do they cultivate these feeling, and 
> when confronted with some act that shows that the person obviously has 
> that bias, he or she will adamantly deny it, because he or she does not 
> see him or herself that way.So if you do not consciously see your 
> self as someone who dislikes Blacks, then why would you not vote for
him 
> if you thought he was the best candidate.  Think out it, theoretically 
> those people you talk to that do not believe that racism is so
prevalent 
> and that when you experience a racist act, you are being hypersensitive 
> or pulling the race card, are potential Obama voters.  i personally
know 
> one or too who seem to like Obama
> 
> 2.  When I was growing up and even as a young adult, I would meet
people 
> who really liked and seem to accept me who said to me, "You do not act 
> like a  Black person"  Or they would say some horrible thing about 
> Blacks to me.  When I would ask them then what are you doing with
me.  I 
> would here something like, "well you are not like them."  this stuff 
> used to burn me up.  I can't tell you how many people I kicked to the 
> curb over this stuff.  Now I think most Whites who feel this way, know 
> better then to express these thought out loud.  (Biden being the 
> exception )  Remember how complimentary Biden was about Obama being 
> "articulate?" I suspect that Obama has probably had many encounters
like 
> the two I described above.  He is able to blend in and be accepted by 
> people from a variety of backgrounds.  For that reason, I think people 
> who might not be overt racists - who do not see themselves as racist, 
> might not have a problem voting for him.  So its off to New Hampshire 
> and believe or now, the polls show that he is poised to beat Hilary.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a percentage
point over Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and
McCain as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major
upset. Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a real
fundamentalist Christian in some ways, but supportive of environmental
issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and pretty well respected
by many Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could get with Romney,
not because he's a Mormon, but because his positions have flip-flopped
more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about an opportunistic
chamelon.
> >
> > Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New
Hampshire might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South
Carolina and the southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep
building and we could be looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which
just might win the day, though I still have this nagging doubt that
America as a whole will elect a Black man named Obama
> > But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
> >
> > 
> > http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
> >
> > With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of
38 percent of voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29
percent for Hillary Clinton.
> > "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and
experience, and change won," said C

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[B. Smith]

The wife and I caucused for the first time and it was one of the 
greatest voting experiences we've ever had. They expected approx. 140-
150 people at our caucus location but close to 300 people attended. 
There was a large number of first time voters, independents and even 
a few converted Republicans our location. The room was packed and 
people began to sort themselves by candidate. Once registration and 
sign up was done the fun began. 

The candidates' representatives gave their speeches on why you should 
choose their candidate. Some were firey, some were cool, but all of 
them were true belivers and they and the precinct captains were 
actively trying to garner support for their candidate. One hilarious 
Dodd captain was an Irish tenor and he strolled around singing trying 
to cajole people to come support his candidate. 

The wheeling and dealing was the most fun part of the experience. The 
Obama contingent was the largest, loudest and best organized. During 
the first caucus period some early projections said Obama was winning 
the state and the place just erupted. 

As the night went on more undecideds and supporters of non-viable 
candidates started to drift over to the Obama campaign. Richardson, 
Kucinich, Biden and Dodd had asked their supporters to caucus for 
Obama if they were not viable in their precincts. Quite a few Dodd 
supporters and a few (cause that's all that were there) Kucinich 
people followed through. Most of the Richardson and Biden folks went 
home. (haters)  

We got a final count and Obama handily won our precinct. The room 
erupted in cheers and then as we were leaving it was announced that 
Obama was projected to win the state and cheers started again. A lot 
of folks headed downtown to the victory celebration and the party 
continued.

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a percentage point 
over Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and McCain 
as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. 
Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a real 
fundamentalist Christian in some ways, but supportive of 
environmental issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and pretty 
well respected by many Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could 
get with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because his positions 
have flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about 
an opportunistic chamelon.
> 
> Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New 
Hampshire might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South 
Carolina and the southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep 
building and we could be looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which 
just might win the day, though I still have this nagging doubt that 
America as a whole will elect a Black man named Obama
> But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
> 
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
> 
> With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 
percent of voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 
percent for Hillary Clinton.
> "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and 
experience, and change won," said CNN political analyst Bill 
Schneider.
> Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of 
Connecticut and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to 
abandon their White House runs.
> Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans 
to "take the fight to New Hampshire."
> For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for 
Democrats versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
> On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, 
according to CNN's analysis of entrance polls. 
> Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment 
in history." 
> "You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to 
stand up and say that we are one nation, we are one people and our 
time for change has come." 
> Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support 
among evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate. 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

You¹re not getting it. Michael Jordan is a ³safe² Black. Shaq is a ³safe²
Black. Tiki Barber is a ³safe² Black. Oprah is a ³safe² Black. It¹s not
about his assumed biraciality, it¹s about his marketing approach.


On 1/4/08 12:40 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
> So he is a "Safe" black. Unlike someone is of obvious African American
> heritage. 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[tdemorsella]

Gymfig

Most biracial people with African blood are seen as Black -
particularly those who look Black, say they are Black and are
considered prominent members of the Black community.  Obama and his
family are seen as Black.  The talking heads in the media often refer
to him as Black.  The conservatives portray him as a Black with muslim
leanings.  

Hilary comes from a connected family, she is worth millions, has a
history, ironically of top ties with the republican party starting
with Barry Goldwater, and for the last 20 years or so, she has been
apart of the elite of the democratic party.  The woman is on the board
of Walmart. She is considered American Aristocracy.  She is a chairs
and serves on several powerful committees in the Senate and  I do not
thing she exactly fit the profile of a woman excluded from the boardroom

I have spent the past 15 years working with, reporting and training
people on issues of race in the workplace and I have to tell you the
male/female thing is not as black and white when it comes to Black men
- even biracial men.  While women consistent get paid less than men,
Black men get paid less than White men.  a Black man with a
traditional name is less likely to even get a job interview than a
white female.  Black men (even biracial men) have higher incidents of
discrimination in the workplace than White women.

There are other factors at work that you either overlooked or were not
aware of.While a Black male who has climbed the corporate ladder
playing the game is more likely to fit in the board room than a White
woman, a Black woman is more likely to get a job than a Black man.
Black men are more likely to get laid off than White women as well.
Many educators start feeling threatened by Black males - even biracial
Black males that look Black starting at age eight.  This continues
into adulthood.  These are not my assumptions, but facts that have
been proved time and again with data.  Black men (Black looking
biracial men included)in New York and many American cities still can
not get a cab and people will cross the street when they see one
coming.  Black men (Black looking biracial men included)are also still
experiencing racial profiling on the road.

Despite a history of supporting women in elections, more women voted
for Obama and Edwards than Hilary.  More young people prefer them, and
more union people prefer them.  Most people want the war to end and
she not only refuses to admit that her war decisions were wrong, she
is very hawkish on Iran and Iraq.  Since her healthcare initiative of
the early nineties, She has been a polarizing force in the democratic
party - despite her many right wing stances of late.  In polling, very
few independents or republicans have indicated that they would vote
for her.  Last night, she got very few votes from independents, while
Obama received 20% votes from independents and I think Edwards got
more than 10% independent votes.  Because of her marriage to bill and
her current power in the senate, there is also the perception that she
is part of the status quo during a time when Americans of both parties
have indicated that they want significant change.  No status quo
person of either party or any gender did well last night.

I stopped liking Hilary a few years ago when she decided to become a
baby Republican with her voting.   I understood why, but those
decisions made it impossible to support her.   Knowing her Republican
roots, I was terrified of the prospect of her winning.  So, while I
wanted Edwards to win, I was OK with Obama's win.  If you are a Hilary
supporter, you can not be happy with the outcome of yesterday's
primary.  While it may be comforting to tell yourself that she lost
because she is a woman, in my view that is a simplistic notion that
flies in the face of a lot of other significant factors - and does not
necessarily erasing the existence of these other factors.   
>  
>  
> A black man won over a white woman in Mass. A black man will still
get a job 
> over a competent white woman or black woman.  I think that with the
win of a 
> black man it will be harder for blacks "especially black men " to
play the 
> victim. The old boys club does admit black men these days. It is
still harder for 
> a woman white or black to get ahead.  
> 
> 
> 
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 1:22:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I could not disagree more.  If Michael Jordan or Shaq ran for
president, they would become "unsafe" blacks real quick

These are two likable acceptable men. Obama is more likable because of his 
background. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:16:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Call it the Halle Berry
factor - where she was the first "black" woman to win when she won her
oscar but how she has essentially been a white actress since -
"Catwoman," 

So he is a "Safe" black. Unlike someone is of obvious African American 
heritage. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:56:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

It¹s not
about his assumed biraciality, it¹s about his marketing approach.

Actually his race does play a part. When you go to other websites and talk to 
"others" it is mentioned that being biracial makes him marketable to white 
women and white males. He is not "black" like most black people. His approach 
make it better. 
 
 
Halle is safe because she is biracial and also her attitude.  It increase his 
likability. I don't a black man who was actually black would get this much 
support. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scifinoir2] Re: Movies Watched Over The Holiday

[ravenadal]

I started with "The Simpsons Movie" which, I am glad I did not pay to
see in a theatre as it comes nowhere near any of the great Simpson
episodes.  It is, however, the environmental movie with the largest
box office, thus far: $525,797,315 (as much of an inconvenient truth
as that may be for Nobel laureate Al Gore).

I followed that with "Children of Men," which I have had forever, but
just now got around to seeing.  Keith, this is a marvelous movie. 
Alphonso Cuaron's film is so organic and fully realized, it is like
you are not even watching a movie. Paul Greengrass gets lots of press
for the immediacy of his handheld camera style in the Bourne sequels
but he has nothing on Cuaron.  

One of the lovely things about watching DVDs at home, besides the
ability to pause, rewind and fast forward, is the ability to go
on-line while you are watching.  When the question "who is that?"
popped into my head, I could go to IMDB and find out "who dat was."  I
spent another two hours online researching "Children of Men" while I
let the movie play through again.  Chocked full visually, "Childrn"
rewards frequent viewing (you'll be surprised what you missed the
first time).

I followed "Children" with "Eastern Promises."  I wanted to see
"Eastern Promises" because I simply adore David Cronenberg's last
film, "A History of Violence."  "History" was the movie where I first
became aware of how far Cronenberg had come as a filmmaker. 
Cronenberg is a visual artist fully in charge of his filmmaking gifts.
 And he brings these gifts to "Promises."  The film is a sumptuous
view of London.  Everything seems to be informed by the high end
Russian Restaurant that is at the heart of the evil that saturates
this film.

I did not enjoy "Promises" on anywhere near the visceral level I
enjoyed "History."  "History" contains two of the hottest sex scenes
in film history.  "Promises" contains one of the most desultory ones.
Viggo Mortensen and Mario Bello have tangible heat in "History."
Mortensen and Naomi Watts barely glance off one another in "Promises."

Both the Tom Stall/Joey Cusack character played by Mortensen in
"Violence" and the Nikolai character he plays in "Promises" are
avenging angels.  In fact, "Eastern Promises" is virtually an
inside-out version of "Violence," with the heroes on a similar though
inverse journies toward redemption.

I was annoyed and disappointed by "Ratoutille."  Although critics
hailed it, to me it seems like the lesser of a string of great Brad
Bird animated movies, starting with "the Iron Giant."  Part of my
problem was the old school 2-D animation.  Part of my problem is the
needed suspension of belief.  EYE was never able to get past the
premise of that fat rat preparing food in the kitchen.  YEEECH!

~rave!
 
--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> wow! That is quite a feat.How do you process them. I reviewed
"Eastern Promises", you remember. A good but rather dreary and
oppressive feeling movie. I guess you'd have to cleanse your mind with
"The Simpsons" after that, then watch "Children of Men", which I hear
i good, then use "Ratatouille" to give you a light heart again. 
> Did you watch 'em like that, alternating the serious with the
comedic, ending on a happy note? How were "Children of Men" and
"Ratatouille"? Never seen them
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Today I watched "the Simpsons Movie," "Children of Men," "Eastern
> Promises" and "Ratatouille," back to back to back and, right now, they
> are not all getting along inside my head.
> 
> ~rave!
> 
> 
>  
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[ravenadal]

I could not disagree more.  If Michael Jordan or Shaq ran for
president, they would become "unsafe" blacks real quick!

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You¹re not getting it. Michael Jordan is a ³safe² Black. Shaq is a
³safe²
> Black. Tiki Barber is a ³safe² Black. Oprah is a ³safe² Black. It¹s not
> about his assumed biraciality, it¹s about his marketing approach.
> 
> 
> On 1/4/08 12:40 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >  
> > So he is a "Safe" black. Unlike someone is of obvious African American
> > heritage. 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[scifinoir2] MTV for smart kids

[ravenadal]

I recently discovered the Current Network on my DISH satellite
programming.  It makes excellent background noise while surfing,
drowsing in bed, or working on one's novel.  It is great mind candy. 
Better yet, it has a kicky global worldview and you can actually learn
something.

It is channel 196 in my next of the woods.

http://www.current.com

~rave!

[scifinoir2] Obama’s Victory Speech: Hope is the Bedrock of Our Nation

[ravenadal]

(I LOVE the photograph of Obama with his wife and daughters)

Obama's Victory Speech: Hope is the Bedrock of Our Nation

http://disembedded.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/obamas-victory-speech-hope-is-the-bedrock-of-our-nation/

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[tdemorsella]

Gymfig 

I have not seen all of these polls you refer to. In fact I have seen
the media try to downplay his race or redefine it in less threatening
terms.   However, most general polls on race indicate that Whites see
biracial people who look Black as Black. - That is not to say that
they do not acknowledge that they are biracial.  

I was not aware that conservatives liked him as you suggested.  Many
have tried to portray him as someone with Muslim extremists roots and
drug taking.  That is an odd way of showing that you like someone in
my opinion.  While I have seen the talking heads say last night that
him being "third world " can help us become of the world, I've never
heard anyone say they like him because he is biracial.  Even if
someone thought that, I do not think they would say it, because it
might be perceived as racist.  OK, so maybe Bill O'Reilly would - Did
he?  I think most commentators are more saavy than that

I never said he was a share cropper, but as far as I understand, he
did not come from a privileged background, have lots of money ot
connections as Hilary did.  Most Blacks and many biracials from middle
class backgrounds are still excluded from the benefits Hilary had.  in
fact many Whites from similar backgrounds are excluded from
As I told you, Obama is not my first choice.  I did not want him in
office either.  Like most politicians, I think he is a sell out. 
However, I wanted Hilary even less because she has been voting on many
important issues like a right wing conservative.  She wants to go into
Iran, she wants it to be illegal to burn the flag, she is ok with
invasion of privacy, the list goes on.  I think Obama id a player and
in the pockets of those in power.  I think he is the lesser of two
evils.  

However, that is not relevant to the issues that you raised.  Which
was that Hilary lost because she is a woman.  That biracial black men
who look Black do not face the issues that other Black men face.  That
Black men have it easier than White women.  That Hilary is not already
part of the power elite.  Those are issues YOU raised.  

Whether I like Obama or not relevant to those issues.  Truth be told,
I'm not a big fan.  I think he is all smoke and mirrors.  The Perfect
politico

You say, "Black men are still men. They are still part of the
network."  I would say the Black men on this list and across the
country would disagree with you.  There is tons of data that refutes
your claim.  Maybe this is more about the candidate you like loosing
than the issues you raised.  I can understand that.  Having a woman in
office  would be a major milestone - Whoever it is.  However
belittling the milestone of Obama's achievement or minimizing and
negating the existence of the many overwhelming odds Black and
biracial men face in our country seems an odd way to cope with
Hilary's setback of loosing one primary.  

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>  
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 1:12:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>  
> Tracy
>  
> Poll after poll; discussion after discussion sees Obama as a
biracial man. 
> Halle may be the first "black " actress but she is also seen as
biracial.  Tiger 
> woods may be seen blacks by some people but he is still seen as
multiethnic 
> also. 
>  
>  
> Conservatives like him because of his biracial background. Not his
black 
> background. 
>  
>  
> Black men get paid less than White men.  a Black man with a
> traditional name is less likely to even get a job interview than a
> white female
>  
>  Obama did not start from humble beginnings either.  He is not the
"my father 
> was a sharecropper" black as many blacks who have achieved many
things like 
> to suggest. 
>  
>  
>  
> When people actually start asking what does Obama stand for. they
cannot 
> answer. I don't know who I will vote for, but I do not that this
"woe is the black 
> man" stuff will have to end with the election of a black man.  That
why I 
> don't understand why people still think that America is still a
racist society. I 
> don't think that black america can really stomach and end to their
problems. 
> I am sure that white America cannot wait for the end of the Jena 6 soul 
> patrol. 
>  
>  
>  
> Black men are still men. They are still part of the network.  
> 
> 
> 
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[ravenadal]

I agree with most of what you say below, but my twenty plus years
looking up through the glass ceiling at corporate america, I have seen
many more black men than black women ascend to the top corporate spot.
With Stan O'Neal ousted at Merril Lynch and Richard D. Parsons about
to retire at Time Warner, Kenneth Chenault remains at American
Express, Ronald Williams at Aetna, Clarence Otis Jr. at Darden
Restaurants, Aylwin Lewis at sears and John W. Thompson at Symantac. 
I don't believe there is a similar list of African-American women.
The top eschelon of corporate America remains an old boy club.

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "tdemorsella" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Gymfig
> 
> Most biracial people with African blood are seen as Black -
> particularly those who look Black, say they are Black and are
> considered prominent members of the Black community.  Obama and his
> family are seen as Black.  The talking heads in the media often refer
> to him as Black.  The conservatives portray him as a Black with muslim
> leanings.  
> 
> Hilary comes from a connected family, she is worth millions, has a
> history, ironically of top ties with the republican party starting
> with Barry Goldwater, and for the last 20 years or so, she has been
> apart of the elite of the democratic party.  The woman is on the board
> of Walmart. She is considered American Aristocracy.  She is a chairs
> and serves on several powerful committees in the Senate and  I do not
> thing she exactly fit the profile of a woman excluded from the boardroom
> 
> I have spent the past 15 years working with, reporting and training
> people on issues of race in the workplace and I have to tell you the
> male/female thing is not as black and white when it comes to Black men
> - even biracial men.  While women consistent get paid less than men,
> Black men get paid less than White men.  a Black man with a
> traditional name is less likely to even get a job interview than a
> white female.  Black men (even biracial men) have higher incidents of
> discrimination in the workplace than White women.
> 
> There are other factors at work that you either overlooked or were not
> aware of.While a Black male who has climbed the corporate ladder
> playing the game is more likely to fit in the board room than a White
> woman, a Black woman is more likely to get a job than a Black man.
> Black men are more likely to get laid off than White women as well.
> Many educators start feeling threatened by Black males - even biracial
> Black males that look Black starting at age eight.  This continues
> into adulthood.  These are not my assumptions, but facts that have
> been proved time and again with data.  Black men (Black looking
> biracial men included)in New York and many American cities still can
> not get a cab and people will cross the street when they see one
> coming.  Black men (Black looking biracial men included)are also still
> experiencing racial profiling on the road.
> 
> Despite a history of supporting women in elections, more women voted
> for Obama and Edwards than Hilary.  More young people prefer them, and
> more union people prefer them.  Most people want the war to end and
> she not only refuses to admit that her war decisions were wrong, she
> is very hawkish on Iran and Iraq.  Since her healthcare initiative of
> the early nineties, She has been a polarizing force in the democratic
> party - despite her many right wing stances of late.  In polling, very
> few independents or republicans have indicated that they would vote
> for her.  Last night, she got very few votes from independents, while
> Obama received 20% votes from independents and I think Edwards got
> more than 10% independent votes.  Because of her marriage to bill and
> her current power in the senate, there is also the perception that she
> is part of the status quo during a time when Americans of both parties
> have indicated that they want significant change.  No status quo
> person of either party or any gender did well last night.
> 
> I stopped liking Hilary a few years ago when she decided to become a
> baby Republican with her voting.   I understood why, but those
> decisions made it impossible to support her.   Knowing her Republican
> roots, I was terrified of the prospect of her winning.  So, while I
> wanted Edwards to win, I was OK with Obama's win.  If you are a Hilary
> supporter, you can not be happy with the outcome of yesterday's
> primary.  While it may be comforting to tell yourself that she lost
> because she is a woman, in my view that is a simplistic notion that
> flies in the face of a lot of other significant factors - and does not
> necessarily erasing the existence of these other factors.   
> >  
> >  
> > A black man won over a white woman in Mass. A black man will still
> get a job 
> > over a competent white woman or black woman.  I think that with the
> win of a 
> > black man it will be harder for blacks "especially black men " to

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 1:35:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Stan O'Neal ousted at Merril Lynch and Richard D. Parsons about
to retire at Time Warner, Kenneth Chenault remains at American
Express, Ronald Williams at Aetna, Clarence Otis Jr. at Darden
Restaurants, Aylwin Lewis at sears and John W. Thompson at Symantac. 
I don't believe there is a similar list of African-American women.
The top eschelon of corporate America remains an old boy club.

~rave!

 
 
 
I could not remember their names. I just did not want to say the Merril Lynch 
guy. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 1:12:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Most biracial people with African blood are seen as Black -
particularly those who look Black, say they are Black and are
Considered prominent members of the Black community.  Obama and his
family are seen as Black. 

 
 
Tracy
 
Poll after poll; discussion after discussion sees Obama as a biracial man. 
Halle may be the first "black " actress but she is also seen as biracial.  
Tiger 
woods may be seen blacks by some people but he is still seen as multiethnic 
also. 
 
 
Conservatives like him because of his biracial background. Not his black 
background. 
 
 
Black men get paid less than White men.  a Black man with a
traditional name is less likely to even get a job interview than a
white female
 
 Obama did not start from humble beginnings either.  He is not the "my father 
was a sharecropper" black as many blacks who have achieved many things like 
to suggest. 
 
 
 
When people actually start asking what does Obama stand for. they cannot 
answer. I don't know who I will vote for, but I do not that this "woe is the 
black 
man" stuff will have to end with the election of a black man.  That why I 
don't understand why people still think that America is still a racist society. 
I 
don't think that black america can really stomach and end to their problems. 
I am sure that white America cannot wait for the end of the Jena 6 soul 
patrol. 
 
 
 
Black men are still men. They are still part of the network.  



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scifinoir2] Re: Obama’s Victory Speech: Hope is the Bedrock of Our Nation

[ravenadal]

A crowd of white folks from Iowa screaming OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! in
unison is some pretty freaky sh*t.

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> (I LOVE the photograph of Obama with his wife and daughters)
> 
> Obama's Victory Speech: Hope is the Bedrock of Our Nation
> 
>
http://disembedded.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/obamas-victory-speech-hope-is-the-bedrock-of-our-nation/
>

[scifinoir2] Re: Singer Won't Do Next Superman?

[B. Smith]

I hope so. It takes a special filmmaker to make Superman boring. 

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> So we can just all pretend that "Superman Returns" never happened, 
then.
> 
> 
> On 1/4/08 2:35 AM, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Singer Won't Do Next Superman?
> > http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=46890
> > Variety columnist Anne Thompson reported that it is "highly 
unlikely"
> > that Superman Returns helmer Bryan Singer will return to shoot 
the next
> > Superman movie.
> > 
> > Singer is finishing up Tom Cruise's Nazi film Valkyrie and 
prepping The
> > Mayor of Castro Street.
> > 
> > "The next Superman we will see on the big screen will not be 
[Superman
> > Returns star] Brandon Routh, but a younger Superman among a cast 
of
> > youthful superheroes in ... Justice League," Thompson 
wrote. "That movie
> > will likely not be shot, however, until after the [writers'] 
strike is
> > resolved."
> > 
> > Thompson also reported details of the upcoming The Dark Knight,
> > Christopher Nolan's sequel to his Batman Begins. Warner Brothers 
is
> > hoping Nolan returns for a third installment, Thompson wrote.
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> >
>

[scifinoir2] Leno, Conan Win First Round Of Late-Night Ratings Fight Without Writers

[ravenadal]

http://defamer.com/340238/leno-conan-win-first-round-of-late+night-ratings-fight-without-writers

Leno, Conan Win First Round Of Late-Night Ratings Fight Without Writers

Overcoming the apparently mild inconvenience of putting on shows
without their striking writers, Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien still
triumphed over fully staffed talk-show rivals David Letterman and
Craig Ferguson in Wednesday night's Nielsen battle. In fairness to the
WGA-approved programs, however, it should be noted that many viewers
might have chosen to tune in to Leno out of irresistible curiosity
about how unfunny the host would be on his own. 

In a move sure to broaden the film's appeal among urban audiences but
which probably won't be met with approval by hard-core fanboys, Tyler
Perry has joined the cast of JJ Abrams' Star Trek, in which he'll play
the sassy, fat-suited grandmother figure who runs Starfleet Academy. 

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[tdemorsella]

I think you missed part of my overly long post  :)  I said, " While a
Black male who has climbed the corporate ladder playing the game is
more likely to fit in the board room than a White woman, a Black woman
is more likely to get a job than a Black man."

I was comparing Black men to white women (not black women) and saying
they do better once they are up the top.  I was thinking of some of
the people you were.  They all learned how to work the system and
ultimately became a part of the network.  However recent surveys of
boards have revealed that they are still the exception - not the rule.
 Once they get up in the upper echelon, Black men are more readily
excepted than White women.   While i is bad for white women in the
board room, the situation is abysmal for Black women in the boardroom.
  However, statistically, Black women get in the door easier at
entry-level and lower-management positions than Black men.

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I agree with most of what you say below, but my twenty plus years
> looking up through the glass ceiling at corporate america, I have seen
> many more black men than black women ascend to the top corporate spot.
> With Stan O'Neal ousted at Merril Lynch and Richard D. Parsons about
> to retire at Time Warner, Kenneth Chenault remains at American
> Express, Ronald Williams at Aetna, Clarence Otis Jr. at Darden
> Restaurants, Aylwin Lewis at sears and John W. Thompson at Symantac. 
> I don't believe there is a similar list of African-American women.
> The top eschelon of corporate America remains an old boy club.
> 
> ~rave!
> 
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "tdemorsella"  wrote:
> >
> > Gymfig
> > 
> > Most biracial people with African blood are seen as Black -
> > particularly those who look Black, say they are Black and are
> > considered prominent members of the Black community.  Obama and his
> > family are seen as Black.  The talking heads in the media often refer
> > to him as Black.  The conservatives portray him as a Black with muslim
> > leanings.  
> > 
> > Hilary comes from a connected family, she is worth millions, has a
> > history, ironically of top ties with the republican party starting
> > with Barry Goldwater, and for the last 20 years or so, she has been
> > apart of the elite of the democratic party.  The woman is on the board
> > of Walmart. She is considered American Aristocracy.  She is a chairs
> > and serves on several powerful committees in the Senate and  I do not
> > thing she exactly fit the profile of a woman excluded from the
boardroom
> > 
> > I have spent the past 15 years working with, reporting and training
> > people on issues of race in the workplace and I have to tell you the
> > male/female thing is not as black and white when it comes to Black men
> > - even biracial men.  While women consistent get paid less than men,
> > Black men get paid less than White men.  a Black man with a
> > traditional name is less likely to even get a job interview than a
> > white female.  Black men (even biracial men) have higher incidents of
> > discrimination in the workplace than White women.
> > 
> > There are other factors at work that you either overlooked or were not
> > aware of.While a Black male who has climbed the corporate ladder
> > playing the game is more likely to fit in the board room than a White
> > woman, a Black woman is more likely to get a job than a Black man.
> > Black men are more likely to get laid off than White women as well.
> > Many educators start feeling threatened by Black males - even biracial
> > Black males that look Black starting at age eight.  This continues
> > into adulthood.  These are not my assumptions, but facts that have
> > been proved time and again with data.  Black men (Black looking
> > biracial men included)in New York and many American cities still can
> > not get a cab and people will cross the street when they see one
> > coming.  Black men (Black looking biracial men included)are also still
> > experiencing racial profiling on the road.
> > 
> > Despite a history of supporting women in elections, more women voted
> > for Obama and Edwards than Hilary.  More young people prefer them, and
> > more union people prefer them.  Most people want the war to end and
> > she not only refuses to admit that her war decisions were wrong, she
> > is very hawkish on Iran and Iraq.  Since her healthcare initiative of
> > the early nineties, She has been a polarizing force in the democratic
> > party - despite her many right wing stances of late.  In polling, very
> > few independents or republicans have indicated that they would vote
> > for her.  Last night, she got very few votes from independents, while
> > Obama received 20% votes from independents and I think Edwards got
> > more than 10% independent votes.  Because of her marriage to bill and
> > her current power in the senate, there is also the perception that she
> > is part of the status q

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[tdemorsella]

There are more than 18 African American CEOs currently leading
corporate America (Fortune 500 companies).  It is a significant
acheivement, that would be foolhardy to overlook.  However, it
concerns me that this achievement may allow people to be deceived in
the belief that because of these acheivements, that Black men have
"overcome" and are part of the "network". 

Those Black men are part of the network.  If you read their bios you
will see reoccurring themes and come to understand how exceptional
they are and that they faced many overwhelming obstacles to get their.
 Very few, if any had the key to the executive suite handed to them. 
The profiles I rad indicated that they learned how to use the system
to get what they want, take a lot of crap and literally wrench the key
away to get access to the executive suite.  

While it does not surprise me that a lot of whites look at these guys
and say Black men are part of the network, it horrifies me that
African Americans who interact in the Black community could believe
this myth.  This is not just my opinion. There is tons of redundant
data that supports what I'm saying.  But hell, if Black men are part
of the "network" then somebody please tell me why the black community
seems to be disintegrating.

I know I'm fired up, but I have spent the past decade, studying this,
reporting on this, creating a section of my website on this, host
events on this, talked to people who managed the studies/surveys,
speaking on this at workshops and conferences, been interviewed on
this, and  have interviewed a few of the people discussed on this, so
it is a subject close to me heart and my livelihood.  

Some resources you may want to check out:

Cracking the Corporate Code: The Revealing Success Stories of 32
African-American Executives by Price M. Cobbs

 Breaking Through: The Making of Minority Executives in Corporate
America by David A. Thomas

Black Enterprise Titans of The B.E. 100s: Black CEOs Who Redefined and
Conquered American Business (Black Enterprise Books)

  Leading in Black and White: Working Across the Racial Divide in
Corporate America (J-B CCL (Center for Creative Leadership)) by
Ancella B. Liver

Take a Lesson: Today's Black Achievers on How They Made It and What
They Learned Along the Way by Caroline V. Clarke


--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>  
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 1:35:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> Stan O'Neal ousted at Merril Lynch and Richard D. Parsons about
> to retire at Time Warner, Kenneth Chenault remains at American
> Express, Ronald Williams at Aetna, Clarence Otis Jr. at Darden
> Restaurants, Aylwin Lewis at sears and John W. Thompson at Symantac. 
> I don't believe there is a similar list of African-American women.
> The top eschelon of corporate America remains an old boy club.
> 
> ~rave!
> 
>  
>  
>  
> I could not remember their names. I just did not want to say the
Merril Lynch 
> guy. 
> 
> 
> 
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

With all due respect, this is a 2 dimensional analysis.

It assumes that there is a woman at American Express, for example, Black or
otherwise, going for Kenneth¹s job,  and that the only reason she won¹t get
it is because Kenneth is there. It also dismisses the fact that you have
just named 7 men in senior positions (none of them owners, by the way) out
of HOW MANY corporations? So, by this analysis,  it  would take 7 more Black
Women in CEO positions in order for things to  be balanced. The reality is
that there are close to  20 Black CEOs. But even by this math, Having 14
Black faces on a list of 500 Fortune-rated companies doesn¹t exactly signal
that ³we¹ve made it².

You are also dismissing the amount of Black VPs, SVPs, EVPs, and GMs at the
companies that  do not have Black CEOs, and a significant amount of them ARE
Black women. And in addition, you  are dismissing  Black executives who were
not born in the United States. So again, it goes to the question of how we
are defining ³power². There is strength in numbers, and a greater strength
in strategically placed number of people of color (from the entire Diaspora)
in positions to make change.







On 1/4/08 1:42 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
>  
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 1:35:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   writes:
> 
> Stan O'Neal ousted at Merril Lynch and Richard D. Parsons about
> to retire at Time Warner, Kenneth Chenault remains at American
> Express, Ronald Williams at Aetna, Clarence Otis Jr. at Darden
> Restaurants, Aylwin Lewis at sears and John W. Thompson at Symantac.
> I don't believe there is a similar list of African-American women.
> The top eschelon of corporate America remains an old boy club.
> 
> ~rave!
> 
> I could not remember their names. I just did not want to say the Merril Lynch
> guy. 
> 
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:56:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I was not aware that conservatives liked him as you suggested.  Many
have tried to portray him as someone with Muslim extremists roots and
drug taking.  That is an odd way of showing that you like someone in
my opinion.  While I have seen the talking heads say last night that
him being "third world " can help us become of the world, I've never
heard anyone say they like him because he is biracial.  Even if
someone thought that, I do not think they would say it, because it
might be perceived as racist.

Tracy
 
What is said in newspaper articles and internet discussions is difference 
what is heard on tv. From some of the more conservative points of view,an Obama 
win would be an end to the Jesse Jackson type of black american. An end to 
affirmative action and to blacks complaing about racism aka the Jena 6 kind of 
marches. 
 
 
In some cases Black men have it easier than White women. I don't believe that 
black men are always downtrodden when they step outside the door until they 
get home. 
 
Alot of thlem do have it easier than white women because they are men. 
Despite the idea that affirmative action has benefitted white females. Black 
males 
have benefitted from being men. Someties race is not an issue. You are right 
that some people don't like Clinto because she is Clinton. However I don't like 
the liberal hype that Obama will be any different than any other person. If 
the liberal Demoract Congress is any indication that it will be SSDD. 
 
If you listen to Juan Willams and other talk about  him, they feel that is is 
the kind of "black" that should be leading america. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
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[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[tdemorsella]

While I agree that what is said in an Internet discussion is different
than TV, I disagree that newspapers differ from the traditional media
that I was referring to.  With the Internet there is no holding back.
 I still say I have not seen the "many" polls on his  biracial
heritage that you refer to.  

I do not think I indicated Black men are "always" down trodden.  In
fact most of the Black men I know personally are not.  However,
statistically - as a group they are.  There is a significant
difference.  While there are cases where Black men have it better than
White Women, there are many case where the opposite is true.  I'm
getting the impression that you do not believe that and problably see
all the data that supports that as flawed so on that issue I have been
wasting my time.  

 I think that in addition to White conservatives, that many Blacks
have problems with Jesse Jackson, so I'm not even arguing for that cause

As I said to you before.  I'm not a big Obama fan, but a professional
who works with issues that you addressed. I came to the conversation
seeking to point out some facts about Blacks, biracials, and women in
power that I did not think you knew.  This was not about my preference
of Obama or Hilary.  To be honest  - I prefer Gore or Edwards.  Thats
not going to happen.  However the more we exchange emails, the more I
believe that for you this conversation has been more about your
dislike of  Obama - which I understand  

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>  
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:56:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> I was not aware that conservatives liked him as you suggested.  Many
> have tried to portray him as someone with Muslim extremists roots and
> drug taking.  That is an odd way of showing that you like someone in
> my opinion.  While I have seen the talking heads say last night that
> him being "third world " can help us become of the world, I've never
> heard anyone say they like him because he is biracial.  Even if
> someone thought that, I do not think they would say it, because it
> might be perceived as racist.
> 
> Tracy
>  
> What is said in newspaper articles and internet discussions is
difference 
> what is heard on tv. From some of the more conservative points of
view,an Obama 
> win would be an end to the Jesse Jackson type of black american. An
end to 
> affirmative action and to blacks complaing about racism aka the Jena
6 kind of 
> marches. 
>  
>  
> In some cases Black men have it easier than White women. I don't
believe that 
> black men are always downtrodden when they step outside the door
until they 
> get home. 
>  
> Alot of thlem do have it easier than white women because they are men. 
> Despite the idea that affirmative action has benefitted white
females. Black males 
> have benefitted from being men. Someties race is not an issue. You
are right 
> that some people don't like Clinto because she is Clinton. However I
don't like 
> the liberal hype that Obama will be any different than any other
person. If 
> the liberal Demoract Congress is any indication that it will be SSDD. 
>  
> If you listen to Juan Willams and other talk about  him, they feel
that is is 
> the kind of "black" that should be leading america. 
> 
> 
> 
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

not sure. i can never decide if America is more averse to a white woman or a 
Black man as Prez. What i was saying here, though, is that they'd not support 
both on the same ticket.

Curious how far behind "civilized" America is: Britain and Israel had female 
prime ministers decades ago. Even Pakistan has had a female leader! Peru had a 
president of Asian descent. And we're still having to discuss whether a woman 
or person of color can lead the Great American Melting Pot??

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

amen!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Gymfig, in *this* country, it's Mount Everest being climbed by a six-year-old.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:23:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the polls show that he is poised to beat Hilary.

So a biracial man can win. So what is the big deal. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

maybe he wasn't really indoctrinated into that specific line of thinking?

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
In all honesty, learning this came as a shock to me. When I was in college, one 
of my best friends was Mormon (and I attended Virginia State, an HCBU), and we 
were almost inseparable. He never showed any inclinations of thinking of me, or 
anyone else in our cadre, as second-class anything.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the Mormon church codified the belief of us as second class is distasteful.

I am not concerned about how the Mormans see blacks. I am syaing that non 
blacks don't like Mormons because they see it as a cult. They question how a 
man could receuve instruction and write a book that rivals the bibile. That is 
they way alot of non Mormans see it. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

agreed. It points out a few things. One, that every generation there's a man or 
woman who can reach those still young and idealistic enough to believe that a 
true change is a-comin: the Kennedy's, Bill Clinton, now Obama.  Two, the only 
problem is that sometimes the young and idealistic don't stay all the way to 
the end, and the old cynical fogeys turn out in greater numbers. Not always, 
but often.  
Three, Clinton has really been staying put, as you said, not really standing 
*for* anything, just saying "I have more experience and I'm tougher". Static 
message heard too many times.  Finally, i believe that *any* frontrunner would 
have seen a decline in the numbers because this went on too freakin' long. had 
Obama started out as the clear frontrunner and gotten all the focus, all the 
attention, all the attacks, I believe that after a campaign this long, people 
would have started picking at him, too. I know enough folks right now who 
aren't enamored of him. If he'd been in front all along this might have been a 
three-way day, or Edwards might have pulled ahead simply by dint of seeming to 
be newer and fresher.

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I just had a look at some of the voter breakdowns, and it seems that Obama won 
through youth more than gender. He's energized the kids out there. Hillary 
standing pat hurt her in the voters' eyes, IMO.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

wow, i'd be amazed to see that!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Keith, I think that just that will happen, when either the Obama/Clinton or 
Clinton/Obama ticket takes the White House. The two have set themselves up as 
the perfect running mates.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you 
won't see them on the same ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother 
in the same year!

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But I could be wrong--I certainly was tonight!

I guess we will have to wait if America is ready to elect a woman for 
president. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

I keep calling romney Grecian Formula Romney. He is way too slick and 
artificial looking, isn't he? I actually lean towards Kucinich and Edwards over 
the others...

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Never did think much of Romney. (Not that I think much of *any* Republican, 
mind you.) He's slick, *Too* slick. If we're not damn careful, we could be 
calling him President Romney. (If that happens, at least I'm friends with his 
cousin...)

I thought Edwards would pull out the win, too, based on the polls. Something I 
should've known better than to accept, knowing instinctively that such things 
are rarely accurate (polls mostly being about asking the people a pollster 
*wants* to ask the question of, not gaining a true representative sample). Also 
saw that Biden and Dodd have both dropped out of the race on the Democratic 
side. A shame, that, because now there's no real force for change in the 
running (Kucinich is there, yes, but who even knows him?). Whoever wins will, 
unfortunately, be more of the same, and my Yahu addy will end in .ca instead of 
.com, because I'll be a Canadian citizen.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a 
percentage point over Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and 
McCain as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. 
Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a real fundamentalist 
Christian in some ways, but supportive of environmental issues, not averse to 
taxing for the poor, and pretty well respected by many Blacks--at least in 
Arkansas. I never could get with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because 
his positions have flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk 
about an opportunistic chamelon.

Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire 
might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the 
southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be 
looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I 
still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man 
named Obama
But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html

With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent of 
voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary 
Clinton.
"The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and 
change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut 
and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House 
runs.
Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the 
fight to New Hampshire."
For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats 
versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according 
to CNN's analysis of entrance polls. 
Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in history." 
"You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and 
say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has 
come." 
Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among 
evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

I see it as just a matrer of time. None of the other Democratic candidates have 
the footing to make a serious stand and, historuically, a presidential 
candidate chooses someone more or less their polar opposite as a running mate.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  wow, i'd be amazed to see that!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Keith, I think that just that will happen, when either the Obama/Clinton or 
Clinton/Obama ticket takes the White House. The two have set themselves up as 
the perfect running mates.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you 
won't see them on the same ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother 
in the same year!

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But I could be wrong--I certainly was tonight!

I guess we will have to wait if America is ready to elect a woman for 
president. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scifinoir2] Stargate Atlantis marathon on Sci Fi today

[KeithBJohnson]

Stargate Atlantis marathon on Sci Fi today, culminating in start of a new block 
of shows at 10 pm EST

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:32:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

then somebody please tell me why the black community
seems to be disintegrating.

  Black males AND black females must take some form of responsibility for 
their problems (education, crime, single homes) and stop blaming racism and one 
another.
 
 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

go back less than ten years and you can hear many speeches where Romney 
specifically distances himself from Reagan's policies.Same as how, he used to 
be clearly and indisputably in favor of abortion rights. people can change, and 
do. and that's good. but his flip-flopping is so drastic and recent, it's the 
most severe i've seen since--well, the Clintons! :)  (and i like the clintons!)

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
This Romney thing is heavy because Romney has been the ³I¹m just like
Reagan² guy. If using the Reagan card can¹t get you the win in IOWA...you¹re
just not the guy. I have to say, I don¹t like politics, but the sports fan
in me is VERY interested in what¹s about to go down in this race.

On 1/4/08 8:21 AM, "Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never did think much of Romney. (Not that I think much of *any* Republican,
> mind you.) He's slick, *Too* slick. If we're not damn careful, we could be
> calling him President Romney. (If that happens, at least I'm friends with his
> cousin...)
> 
> I thought Edwards would pull out the win, too, based on the polls. Something I
> should've known better than to accept, knowing instinctively that such things
> are rarely accurate (polls mostly being about asking the people a pollster
> *wants* to ask the question of, not gaining a true representative sample).
> Also saw that Biden and Dodd have both dropped out of the race on the
> Democratic side. A shame, that, because now there's no real force for change
> in the running (Kucinich is there, yes, but who even knows him?). Whoever wins
> will, unfortunately, be more of the same, and my Yahu addy will end in .ca
> instead of .com, because I'll be a Canadian citizen.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
> Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a percentage point over
> Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and McCain as 1-2-3,
> respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. Huckabee might have
> some real legs, given that he's a real fundamentalist Christian in some ways,
> but supportive of environmental issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and
> pretty well respected by many Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could get
> with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because his positions have
> flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about an
> opportunistic chamelon.
> 
> Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire
> might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the
> southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be
> looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I
> still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man
> named Obama
> But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
> 
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
> 
> With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent
> of voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary
> Clinton.
> "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and
> change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
> Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut
> and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House
> runs.
> Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the
> fight to New Hampshire."
> For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats
> versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said.
> On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according
> to CNN's analysis of entrance polls.
> Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in
> history." 
> "You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and
> say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has
> come." 
> Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among
> evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get
> organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A
> Country"
> 
> -
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
> now.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

i completely agree

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
A Black man beating a popular and connected white woman for a major office
is BRAND new. Plain ol¹ ³A man beating a woman² = John Kerry getting the
democratic nomination over Carol Mosley Braun. Please be clear, ³biracial²
or not, this is America. One drop rule in FULL effect. Obama is BLACK. His
wife is black, his kids are black, he¹s closer to Africa than most of the
people who will vote for him. Nobody¹s seeing him as ³biracial² except Black
people, who still see Hispanics as ³another race². This is a Black man, who
came form NO connections, NO influence, winning in IOWA. This is literally
the same thing as Mos Def becoming Prime Minister of France. It is a very
big fricken deal.

On 1/4/08 8:08 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> A man beating a woman is NOTHING new
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Movies Watched Over The Holiday

[KeithBJohnson]

Right, Chestnut was in a series called "C-16 FBI", but i can't believe that was 
ten years ago!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
No, Keith, but Rocky Carroll, of "Roc" fame, and Gloria Reuben were both in it.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0285332/

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: was Morris Chestnut in that one? He was in a 
shortlived show about some law agency

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
More than welcome. And, frankly, you didn't miss much. It was really glossed 
over, IMO. Saccharin, at times. Only one decent character in the bunch, the 
field-op guy, A.B. Stiles, if memory serves. He would never say what the A.B. 
stood for, true spook he was. Once hinted that it might mean "Absolute B*stard".

maidmarian_thepoet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yeah, that was it. I never 
watched it.
Thanks.

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Marian, that was CBS, doing "The Agency".
> 
> maidmarian_thepoet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I guess that I 
am all over the place:
> 
> The Butterfly Effect: Director's Cut - liked it. 
> It has its problems, but the writers put some thought into the 
> movie. 
> The Orchestra of Piazza Vittorio 
> Sweet. Is honest about the problems of community involvement
> in a democracy.
> MI-5, vol 2
> I am enjoying this BBC tv series. I don't think that this 
> would work here. (In fact, didn't a network try to make a series 
> about the CIA?) MI-5 is still a good-guy in the BBC. No way that I 
> could see the CIA as purely a good-guy. A USA series would have to 
be 
> more like "The Shield"--which I never watched either.
> 
> Sweeney Todd
> I've already raved about this.
> I am Legend
> Already talked about.
> 
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly 
> Tracey L. Minor)"  wrote:
> >
> > Hey Gang:
> > 
> > What movies did you watch over the holidays? The would include in 
> the 
> > theatre, on DVD, and on TV. What movies did you like and which 
were 
> duds?
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels 
will get organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A 
Man Without A Country"
> 
> -
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. 
Try it now.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:51:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I
believe that for you this conversation has been more about your
dislike of  Obama - which I understand  

It is not my dislike of Obama. I just think that there are issues that will 
not be touched because of gender, race and other problems. Hillary my notr be 
likable, but I don't think Obama is like either. From some of the liberal 
blogs/website people say that he is low on substance. Will the mainstream press 
start going after him? I think not. Also I think that there are those liberals 
that see a win as a end to any racist feeling that may exist in this country. 
Other threads I have seen say that that they voted for Obama because they know 
that he can not win the general election. 
 
 
I think he has not been attacted because he was not considered the front 
runner, but will they go after him if he is. Obama has been careful to race 
issues. He has not seem to bee to controversial.  Do people really know his 
policies 
on other issues. Some liberals say he is a republcian-lite. He is not 
different than Clinton. He hope and change message is meaningless. Why should 
he get 
a free ride while Edwards, Rommney, and Huckabbee have to prove themselves. 
 
 
I still don't understand why Edwards is going after Clinto but never goes 
after Obama. He is content to be second place? If he wants the presdiential 
nom, 
then he needs to go after Obama. Something that only Clinton has done. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Singer Won't Do Next Superman?

[KeithBJohnson]

one of the biggest disappointments to me recently. i wanted to love this movie. 
The trailers had me excited ( i even posted here about them). But it was bogged 
down in a soggy love story, a completely unengaging and unimpressive Lois Lane, 
 not enough good action. Another big thing is they need to jettison the  
comedic Lex Luthor, which i hate. One minute he's a deadly menace, the next 
he's doing standup. Luthor is evil, make him so and drop the jokes. Spacey was 
effective when he was bad, like stabbing supes with the Green K. But when he 
was acting goofy i just groaned. And finally, i *hate* the nerdy Clark Kent. I 
was never a fan of the stumbling nerd Clark, which is too much caricature for 
me. Much prefer the way he was back in the original comics, after John Byrne's 
reboot, or on "Smallville": a regular guy who some might think at first is a 
bit too mild, but capable of amazing acts. I think Clark as a strong person in 
his own right makes the character much more interesting.

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

So we can just all pretend that "Superman Returns" never happened, then.

On 1/4/08 2:35 AM, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Singer Won't Do Next Superman?
> http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=46890
> Variety columnist Anne Thompson reported that it is "highly unlikely"
> that Superman Returns helmer Bryan Singer will return to shoot the next
> Superman movie.
> 
> Singer is finishing up Tom Cruise's Nazi film Valkyrie and prepping The
> Mayor of Castro Street.
> 
> "The next Superman we will see on the big screen will not be [Superman
> Returns star] Brandon Routh, but a younger Superman among a cast of
> youthful superheroes in ... Justice League," Thompson wrote. "That movie
> will likely not be shot, however, until after the [writers'] strike is
> resolved."
> 
> Thompson also reported details of the upcoming The Dark Knight,
> Christopher Nolan's sequel to his Batman Begins. Warner Brothers is
> hoping Nolan returns for a third installment, Thompson wrote.
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

can you briefly explain how a caucus works? How does it differ from a primary, 
and what's the difference in how the Democrats and Republicans do theirs? The 
Republican results counted actual votes cast, the Dems just the delegate votes?

-- Original message -- 
From: "B. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
The wife and I caucused for the first time and it was one of the 
greatest voting experiences we've ever had. They expected approx. 140-
150 people at our caucus location but close to 300 people attended. 
There was a large number of first time voters, independents and even 
a few converted Republicans our location. The room was packed and 
people began to sort themselves by candidate. Once registration and 
sign up was done the fun began. 

The candidates' representatives gave their speeches on why you should 
choose their candidate. Some were firey, some were cool, but all of 
them were true belivers and they and the precinct captains were 
actively trying to garner support for their candidate. One hilarious 
Dodd captain was an Irish tenor and he strolled around singing trying 
to cajole people to come support his candidate. 

The wheeling and dealing was the most fun part of the experience. The 
Obama contingent was the largest, loudest and best organized. During 
the first caucus period some early projections said Obama was winning 
the state and the place just erupted. 

As the night went on more undecideds and supporters of non-viable 
candidates started to drift over to the Obama campaign. Richardson, 
Kucinich, Biden and Dodd had asked their supporters to caucus for 
Obama if they were not viable in their precincts. Quite a few Dodd 
supporters and a few (cause that's all that were there) Kucinich 
people followed through. Most of the Richardson and Biden folks went 
home. (haters) 

We got a final count and Obama handily won our precinct. The room 
erupted in cheers and then as we were leaving it was announced that 
Obama was projected to win the state and cheers started again. A lot 
of folks headed downtown to the victory celebration and the party 
continued.

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a percentage point 
over Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and McCain 
as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. 
Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a real 
fundamentalist Christian in some ways, but supportive of 
environmental issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and pretty 
well respected by many Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could 
get with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because his positions 
have flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about 
an opportunistic chamelon.
> 
> Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New 
Hampshire might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South 
Carolina and the southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep 
building and we could be looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which 
just might win the day, though I still have this nagging doubt that 
America as a whole will elect a Black man named Obama
> But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
> 
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
> 
> With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 
percent of voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 
percent for Hillary Clinton.
> "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and 
experience, and change won," said CNN political analyst Bill 
Schneider.
> Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of 
Connecticut and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to 
abandon their White House runs.
> Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans 
to "take the fight to New Hampshire."
> For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for 
Democrats versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
> On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, 
according to CNN's analysis of entrance polls. 
> Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment 
in history." 
> "You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to 
stand up and say that we are one nation, we are one people and our 
time for change has come." 
> Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support 
among evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate. 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

Whoa. Whoa, wait. Whoa.

Disintegrating? Whowhere? I¹m confused. HOW did we get here? You¹ve cut off
the post you  were responding to  and I don¹t follow you  right  now at all.


On 1/4/08 4:33 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
>  
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:32:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   writes:
> 
> then somebody please tell me why the black community
> seems to be disintegrating.
> 
> Black males AND black females must take some form of responsibility for
> their problems (education, crime, single homes) and stop blaming racism and
> one 
> another.
>  
>  
> 
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Preachify, sister!

vhenry_89147 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Tracey,

I also had feeling about how impossible it was for Obama to win a
nomination, let alone the presidency of the United States.

Perhaps his win in Iowa is an indication that my cynicism over race
relations in America can someday be quelled. Let's hope. In any event,
guess we'll see what happens in New Hampshire.

It still burns me up that some people continue to group the behavior
of Black people in one all encompassing bucket. If I fit into that
bucket, I wouldn't love science fiction the way I do, reading or
writing it. For that matter, I wouldn't practice Yoga or have studied
computer science either, right?

Veronica
--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly
Tracey L. Minor)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Me, like a lot of Blacks who have experienced racism, could not see 
> White America voting for Obama -- a Black guy. We'd seen some real 
> racist stuff come out of even the nicest people. Surely these people 
> could not vote for someone that has a member of a race that they 
> harbored such ugly thoughts and feelings about. . Then tonite 
> happened. Obama won big in a state with only 2% Blacks. After a great 
> deal of thought, I think I figured out how he won and why it is
possible 
> for him to win. There are two factors involved:
> 
> 1. Most people - even the nicest people have unconscious biases
against 
> people who are different from them. This often comes in the form of 
> racism when it comes to Black/White relations. Most of the time, they 
> are not even aware of them, nor do they cultivate these feeling, and 
> when confronted with some act that shows that the person obviously has 
> that bias, he or she will adamantly deny it, because he or she does not 
> see him or herself that way. So if you do not consciously see your 
> self as someone who dislikes Blacks, then why would you not vote for
him 
> if you thought he was the best candidate. Think out it, theoretically 
> those people you talk to that do not believe that racism is so
prevalent 
> and that when you experience a racist act, you are being hypersensitive 
> or pulling the race card, are potential Obama voters. i personally
know 
> one or too who seem to like Obama
> 
> 2. When I was growing up and even as a young adult, I would meet
people 
> who really liked and seem to accept me who said to me, "You do not act 
> like a Black person" Or they would say some horrible thing about 
> Blacks to me. When I would ask them then what are you doing with
me. I 
> would here something like, "well you are not like them." this stuff 
> used to burn me up. I can't tell you how many people I kicked to the 
> curb over this stuff. Now I think most Whites who feel this way, know 
> better then to express these thought out loud. (Biden being the 
> exception ) Remember how complimentary Biden was about Obama being 
> "articulate?" I suspect that Obama has probably had many encounters
like 
> the two I described above. He is able to blend in and be accepted by 
> people from a variety of backgrounds. For that reason, I think people 
> who might not be overt racists - who do not see themselves as racist, 
> might not have a problem voting for him. So its off to New Hampshire 
> and believe or now, the polls show that he is poised to beat Hilary.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a percentage
point over Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and
McCain as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major
upset. Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a real
fundamentalist Christian in some ways, but supportive of environmental
issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and pretty well respected
by many Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could get with Romney,
not because he's a Mormon, but because his positions have flip-flopped
more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about an opportunistic
chamelon.
> >
> > Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New
Hampshire might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South
Carolina and the southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep
building and we could be looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which
just might win the day, though I still have this nagging doubt that
America as a whole will elect a Black man named Obama
> > But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
> >
> > 
> > http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
> >
> > With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of
38 percent of voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29
percent for Hillary Clinton.
> > "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and
experience, and change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
> > Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of
Connecticut and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware.

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

The only source I¹ve seen you  reference is Juan Williams and ³TV². I don¹t
think a yahoo discussion thread is the same as what people feel on the
streets. Change in this country has to  happen from all levels, not just
from blogs,  but from the streets. Obama and Edwards are hitting up these
unions, the working people in this country.  Ain¹t a lot of dock workers
maintaining blogs.

You seem focused all day on Obama having an easy go of it for no other
reason than because he is a partially white male. That  was a great
perspective for 1988. Now, honestly? Even the liberal/conservative jazz is
old hat. It¹s more marketing. Being liberal or conservative was the new
³urban². There are some TOTALLY white males -- even on this list -- who will
tell you that just being white  is not enough. It takes money, and it takes
a flawless marketing team. It takes a hook. Clinton has access to ALL of
this, AND a hook, but her true underwear is showing. As Tracey said, Clinton
is mad right wing with hers. Nobody wants to go down that  road again. It
cost the country BILLIONS of dollars,  and thousands of lives. America has
chosen the woman they are going to stand behind, and I say again ‹ her name
is Oprah Winfrey. This is a consumer based economy and she is the #1
influencer across all 50 states. And she has chosen Obama. In 2004 you had
Puffy out here with Vote Or Die T shirts,  Oprah, Tom Joyner, Tavis, all the
Black people who can make people do things...all very vocal...all
registering voters...and none of them endorsed a candidate. So guess what
happened...nobody won. This time, everybody is saying Obama. And so, guess
what¹s happening...Obama is coming out of the gates strong.

Black people have to take responsibility for ourselves, yes,  but that¹s not
what we¹re talking about. We¹re talking about candidates for president of
the United States. Truth be told,  if we were talking about  personal
responsibility,  we¹d be laughing ALL of these democrats off the stage and
having a long talk with Kucinich  to see how serious he REALLY  is.  Truth
be told, if Black people were about self responsibility,  there would have
been three riots  by now since 2004. We¹re not TALKING about that.  We are
talking about sending  four people to the Pro Bowl. The public gets a say in
who goes,  and then the game has to  be played to decide a winner.


On 1/4/08 4:27 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
>  
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:51:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   writes:
> 
> I
> believe that for you this conversation has been more about your
> dislike of  Obama - which I understand
> 
> It is not my dislike of Obama. I just think that there are issues that will
> not be touched because of gender, race and other problems. Hillary my notr be
> likable, but I don't think Obama is like either. From some of the liberal
> blogs/website people say that he is low on substance. Will the mainstream
> press 
> start going after him? I think not. Also I think that there are those liberals
> that see a win as a end to any racist feeling that may exist in this country.
> Other threads I have seen say that that they voted for Obama because they know
> that he can not win the general election.
>  
>  
> I think he has not been attacted because he was not considered the front
> runner, but will they go after him if he is. Obama has been careful to race
> issues. He has not seem to bee to controversial.  Do people really know his
> policies 
> on other issues. Some liberals say he is a republcian-lite. He is not
> different than Clinton. He hope and change message is meaningless. Why should
> he get 
> a free ride while Edwards, Rommney, and Huckabbee have to prove themselves.
>  
>  
> I still don't understand why Edwards is going after Clinto but never goes
> after Obama. He is content to be second place? If he wants the presdiential
> nom, 
> then he needs to go after Obama. Something that only Clinton has done.
> 
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Daryle, in the Political World, none of them would stay "safe" for very long. 
Jordan and Shaq both being in the middle of divorces, Mike's being potentially 
ugly, considering the known fact that he's had mistresses, would certainly 
spawn some fodder that would break any potential candidacy. Tiki and Oprah, I 
can't find much dirt on at face value.

Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  You¹re not getting it. Michael 
Jordan is a ³safe² Black. Shaq is a ³safe²
Black. Tiki Barber is a ³safe² Black. Oprah is a ³safe² Black. It¹s not
about his assumed biraciality, it¹s about his marketing approach.

On 1/4/08 12:40 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> So he is a "Safe" black. Unlike someone is of obvious African American
> heritage. 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Singer Won't Do Next Superman?

[Martin]

I can get behind that. I've got the movie right now, one of those 
slightly-illicit versions. Think I watched about ten minutes of it before 
turning it off. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of Big Blue, and never have been (all 
of Chris Reeve's exploits, I saw though video), but the movie, to me, was 
supremely unengaging.

Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
So we can just all pretend that "Superman Returns" never happened, then.

On 1/4/08 2:35 AM, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Singer Won't Do Next Superman?
> http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=46890
> Variety columnist Anne Thompson reported that it is "highly unlikely"
> that Superman Returns helmer Bryan Singer will return to shoot the next
> Superman movie.
> 
> Singer is finishing up Tom Cruise's Nazi film Valkyrie and prepping The
> Mayor of Castro Street.
> 
> "The next Superman we will see on the big screen will not be [Superman
> Returns star] Brandon Routh, but a younger Superman among a cast of
> youthful superheroes in ... Justice League," Thompson wrote. "That movie
> will likely not be shot, however, until after the [writers'] strike is
> resolved."
> 
> Thompson also reported details of the upcoming The Dark Knight,
> Christopher Nolan's sequel to his Batman Begins. Warner Brothers is
> hoping Nolan returns for a third installment, Thompson wrote.
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 



 


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 5:02:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

It takes a hook. Clinton has access to ALL of
this, AND a hook, but her true underwear is showing. As Tracey said, Clinton
is mad right wing with hers. Nobody wants to go down that  road again.

Edwards is a very rich man
Obama is a rich man
 
To say that they respresent poor white men is a joke. Pba,as tried a liberal 
foreign policy in the debate and was criticized for it. Especially with his 
"Palestinian people are opprssed
speech.  He will have to become more right wing to fit into a realistic real 
war. The Democratic controlled Congress has not been able to cut off funding 
or stop the war. Do you think Obama or Edwards can do that? The Pentagon and 
the corporations that put them there will not allow that to happen.  Do no be 
so 
quick to be the liberal that could. Liberal Democrrats  have not done 
anything for the war and have not done anything for this country. They still 
vote to 
send jobs pverseas/ They still fund the war. They still cant balence the 
budget. Obama will have to give in to conservative Republicans/ To say that he 
will 
be some great liberal savior is a joke. Even Edwards knows this. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

The start of the civil rights movement of the 21st century started on
January 1, 2000. We don¹t use TV cameras anymore. We don¹t wait on leaders.
We don¹t wait until 1,000,000 people agree with us and go have a meeting. We
go make changes. We go take our stuff and get  called rude. We take care of
and defend our families. We defend our homes. What the Jena 6 media coverage
did was bring us BACK to the 20th century. The whole point of the Jena 6
story  was the dangone TREE. We allowed ourselves to get distracted because
some online group started a bus trip, and start that marching again. The
whole point was the TREE, and they cut the tree down. The 21st Century Civil
Rights movement is not sending 2 of the Jena 6 to the BET Awards. It¹s using
that money to hire the best lawyer in the country so that the other 4 walk.

On 1/4/08 5:00 PM, "Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> When I first saw Gymfig's reply this morn, I ahd a thought that I left
> unvoiced, because I'm loathe to admit that I agree with the sentiment,
> especially since it's out of the mouth of Al Sharpton, but here it is.
>  
>  he said, during a rally for the Jena 6, that we were facign the start of "the
> Civil Rights Movement of the 21st Century". And he's right, as long as such
> thoughts as these can be voiced by us.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   wrote:
>  not sure. i can never decide if America is more averse to a white woman or a
> Black man as Prez. What i was saying here, though, is that they'd not support
> both on the same ticket.
> 
> Curious how far behind "civilized" America is: Britain and Israel had female
> prime ministers decades ago. Even Pakistan has had a female leader! Peru had a
> president of Asian descent. And we're still having to discuss whether a woman
> or person of color can lead the Great American Melting Pot??
> 
> -- Original message --
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   writes:
> 
> or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same
> ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!
> 
> So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?
> 
> **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get
> organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A
> Country"
>  
> -
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Stargate Atlantis marathon on Sci Fi today

[Martin]

I've been dipping in and out. Out right now, because I'm down the hall, tending 
to my mother's PC. Back in, once I'm done. Hope I haven't missed "Miller's 
Crossing". 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Stargate Atlantis marathon on Sci Fi today, 
culminating in start of a new block of shows at 10 pm EST

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

When I first saw Gymfig's reply this morn, I ahd a thought that I left 
unvoiced, because I'm loathe to admit that I agree with the sentiment, 
especially since it's out of the mouth of Al Sharpton, but here it is.
   
  he said, during a rally for the Jena 6, that we were facign the start of "the 
Civil Rights Movement of the 21st Century". And he's right, as long as such 
thoughts as these can be voiced by us.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  not sure. i can never decide if America is more averse to a white 
woman or a Black man as Prez. What i was saying here, though, is that they'd 
not support both on the same ticket.

Curious how far behind "civilized" America is: Britain and Israel had female 
prime ministers decades ago. Even Pakistan has had a female leader! Peru had a 
president of Asian descent. And we're still having to discuss whether a woman 
or person of color can lead the Great American Melting Pot??

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

So wait. You¹re saying that  if I¹m rich, I¹m a right winger by default?


On 1/4/08 5:16 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
>  
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 5:02:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   writes:
> 
> It takes a hook. Clinton has access to ALL of
> this, AND a hook, but her true underwear is showing. As Tracey said, Clinton
> is mad right wing with hers. Nobody wants to go down that  road again.
> 
> Edwards is a very rich man
> Obama is a rich man
>  
> To say that they respresent poor white men is a joke. Pba,as tried a liberal
> foreign policy in the debate and was criticized for it. Especially with his
> "Palestinian people are opprssed
> speech.  He will have to become more right wing to fit into a realistic real
> war. The Democratic controlled Congress has not been able to cut off funding
> or stop the war. Do you think Obama or Edwards can do that? The Pentagon and
> the corporations that put them there will not allow that to happen.  Do no be
> so 
> quick to be the liberal that could. Liberal Democrrats  have not done
> anything for the war and have not done anything for this country. They still
> vote to 
> send jobs pverseas/ They still fund the war. They still cant balence the
> budget. Obama will have to give in to conservative Republicans/ To say that he
> will 
> be some great liberal savior is a joke. Even Edwards knows this.
> 
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[tetsuwanatom1]

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>  
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:56:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> I was not aware that conservatives liked him as you suggested.  

In Iowa, at least, conservatives do. More Republicans caucused with 
the democrats and voted for Obama than voted for Huck. WHITE 
REPUBLICANS jumped ship to vote for the Black candidate. This could 
be part of their misguided strategy to subvert the "electable" 
candidate, still, numbers mean something.

Barack Obama on his name alone would be considered an unsafe Black 
man. He's presented himself as the intelligent but not intellectual, 
affable and approachable, Black but not too Black candidate. His 
image is fine toned, make no mistake. White people are for the most 
part totally confused about the issue of his "Blackness" and I doubt 
it factors in either way unless they are associating (or confusing) 
Blackness with "how much is he like me?"

>Many
> have tried to portray him as someone with Muslim extremists roots 
and
> drug taking.  That is an odd way of showing that you like someone in
> my opinion.  While I have seen the talking heads say last night that
> him being "third world " can help us become of the world, I've never
> heard anyone say they like him because he is biracial.  Even if
> someone thought that, I do not think they would say it, because it
> might be perceived as racist.
> 
> Tracy
>  
> What is said in newspaper articles and internet discussions is 
difference 
> what is heard on tv. From some of the more conservative points of 
view,an Obama 
> win would be an end to the Jesse Jackson type of black american. An 
end to 
> affirmative action and to blacks complaing about racism aka the 
Jena 6 kind of 
> marches. 
>  
>  
> In some cases Black men have it easier than White women. I don't 
believe that 
> black men are always downtrodden when they step outside the door 
until they 
> get home. 
>  
> Alot of thlem do have it easier than white women because they are 
men. 
> Despite the idea that affirmative action has benefitted white 
females. Black males 
> have benefitted from being men. Someties race is not an issue. You 
are right 
> that some people don't like Clinto because she is Clinton. However 
I don't like 
> the liberal hype that Obama will be any different than any other 
person. If 
> the liberal Demoract Congress is any indication that it will be 
SSDD. 
>  
> If you listen to Juan Willams and other talk about  him, they feel 
that is is 
> the kind of "black" that should be leading america. 
> 
> 
> 
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in 
shape. 
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?
NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[ravenadal]

Oh, you are preaching to the choir!  My son, who is a sophomore at the
University of Wisconsin-Madison, researched affirmative action for a
Speech class speech he had to give.  The government supplied
statistics confirmed that a white EX CONVICT had a better chance of
getting hired than a better qualified black male high school graduate
with no priors.

There are many a day when I believe the millions of young black men
who opt out and refuse to play this "zero sum game" may have it right.

Then I tighten the bootstraps I am lucky enough to have and send
another check to keep my son enrolled at a public college where he
will receive the diploma he will need to do the job I achieved without
one.

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "tdemorsella" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think you missed part of my overly long post  :)  I said, " While a
> Black male who has climbed the corporate ladder playing the game is
> more likely to fit in the board room than a White woman, a Black woman
> is more likely to get a job than a Black man."
> 
> I was comparing Black men to white women (not black women) and saying
> they do better once they are up the top.  I was thinking of some of
> the people you were.  They all learned how to work the system and
> ultimately became a part of the network.  However recent surveys of
> boards have revealed that they are still the exception - not the rule.
>  Once they get up in the upper echelon, Black men are more readily
> excepted than White women.   While i is bad for white women in the
> board room, the situation is abysmal for Black women in the boardroom.
>   However, statistically, Black women get in the door easier at
> entry-level and lower-management positions than Black men.
> 
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "ravenadal"  wrote:
> >
> > I agree with most of what you say below, but my twenty plus years
> > looking up through the glass ceiling at corporate america, I have seen
> > many more black men than black women ascend to the top corporate spot.
> > With Stan O'Neal ousted at Merril Lynch and Richard D. Parsons about
> > to retire at Time Warner, Kenneth Chenault remains at American
> > Express, Ronald Williams at Aetna, Clarence Otis Jr. at Darden
> > Restaurants, Aylwin Lewis at sears and John W. Thompson at Symantac. 
> > I don't believe there is a similar list of African-American women.
> > The top eschelon of corporate America remains an old boy club.
> > 
> > ~rave!
> > 
> > --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "tdemorsella"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Gymfig
> > > 
> > > Most biracial people with African blood are seen as Black -
> > > particularly those who look Black, say they are Black and are
> > > considered prominent members of the Black community.  Obama and his
> > > family are seen as Black.  The talking heads in the media often
refer
> > > to him as Black.  The conservatives portray him as a Black with
muslim
> > > leanings.  
> > > 
> > > Hilary comes from a connected family, she is worth millions, has a
> > > history, ironically of top ties with the republican party starting
> > > with Barry Goldwater, and for the last 20 years or so, she has been
> > > apart of the elite of the democratic party.  The woman is on the
board
> > > of Walmart. She is considered American Aristocracy.  She is a chairs
> > > and serves on several powerful committees in the Senate and  I
do not
> > > thing she exactly fit the profile of a woman excluded from the
> boardroom
> > > 
> > > I have spent the past 15 years working with, reporting and training
> > > people on issues of race in the workplace and I have to tell you the
> > > male/female thing is not as black and white when it comes to
Black men
> > > - even biracial men.  While women consistent get paid less than men,
> > > Black men get paid less than White men.  a Black man with a
> > > traditional name is less likely to even get a job interview than a
> > > white female.  Black men (even biracial men) have higher
incidents of
> > > discrimination in the workplace than White women.
> > > 
> > > There are other factors at work that you either overlooked or
were not
> > > aware of.While a Black male who has climbed the corporate ladder
> > > playing the game is more likely to fit in the board room than a
White
> > > woman, a Black woman is more likely to get a job than a Black man.
> > > Black men are more likely to get laid off than White women as well.
> > > Many educators start feeling threatened by Black males - even
biracial
> > > Black males that look Black starting at age eight.  This continues
> > > into adulthood.  These are not my assumptions, but facts that have
> > > been proved time and again with data.  Black men (Black looking
> > > biracial men included)in New York and many American cities still can
> > > not get a cab and people will cross the street when they see one
> > > coming.  Black men (Black looking biracial men included)are also
still
> > > experiencing racial profiling on the road

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

i really have to disagree with your saying America's not racist. As a Black man 
I still fight this stuff every day, whether it's inferiour white guys on my job 
giving me grief, the white cop or security guard who follows m ein the store, 
or the more generic white attitude that has whites speaking what they think is 
black slang to me, or making assumptions about my values and interests.  I 
worked in HR for a while, and i can tell you that black people get 
discriminated against in hiring all the time, even now in 2008. 

And to say that black people don't want to end our problems? I'm surprised at 
that. I know a lot of blacks, rich and poor, educated and illiterate, who might 
blame some of their problems on racism, but they don't *embrace* that as an 
excuse. But they do see a system that still redlines black neighborhoods, that 
has businesses skittish to build in black neighborhoods, real estate agents 
leery of showing homes to blacks in a majority white neighborhood, and 
companies where white people support other whites at our expense. It's changed, 
it's gotten better, but it's not at all some fantasy we cook up to blame others 
for our problems. I'm fairly well educated (BS in Electrical Engineering, 
several hundred hours in Microsoft NT/Windows 2000 etc. training) speak "good" 
English, etc., and I still encounter racism and prejudice. i don't go looking 
for it, but i acknowledge it. 

And even if Obama's elected that doesn't mean racism will end in America. A 
president can attain the White House with basically half the vote, meaning half 
th electorate can still be just as backwards and unenlightened as they want.

Finally, i have to comment on the thing about black man having all the 
advantages. I agree with Tracey's statement: while black men may apparently 
have an "in" in a male dominated corporate structure, the truth is that many 
whites only have room for one or the other, black men or black women. And the 
truth is that often white men see competent black men as threats. I have been 
in many a situation where white guys view me with veiled hostility even though 
i've done nothing to them, yet will joke and kid around with black women. some 
of that, frankly, is a sexist attitude: they see the women as less of a threat 
and someone they can joke and kid and flirt with. My wife has commented to me 
more than once on how white guys in corporate America are getting bolder than 
ever in flirting with black women. They're *women*, and that makes the guys 
feel good. but as a black man, what can I do for a straight white guy in that 
area? He can't flirt with me, can't feel somehow more physically powe
rful over me the way he might with a woman. he might assume that i'm in 
incoming Alpha male who might mess with his little fiefdom.   So out goes the 
threat (me) in favor of a black lady that threatens the guys less.  

I feel that you're kind of putting a divide here, drawing a line between 
Brothers and Sisters and lumping us with white men. as if you're saying black 
men take advantage of Sisters too and use the system against them. That's not 
true of all of us by any means. My wife is my partner, and i'm just as 
angry--angrier--at the combination sexist/racist treatment she takes as the 
racist treatment i get.  i see a victory for her and all Sisters as a victory 
for us as a people and would never subscribe to the philosophy that i'm in the 
old boys club like the white guys.



-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 1:12:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Most biracial people with African blood are seen as Black -
particularly those who look Black, say they are Black and are
Considered prominent members of the Black community. Obama and his
family are seen as Black. 

Tracy

Poll after poll; discussion after discussion sees Obama as a biracial man. 
Halle may be the first "black " actress but she is also seen as biracial. Tiger 
woods may be seen blacks by some people but he is still seen as multiethnic 
also. 


Conservatives like him because of his biracial background. Not his black 
background. 


Black men get paid less than White men. a Black man with a
traditional name is less likely to even get a job interview than a
white female

Obama did not start from humble beginnings either. He is not the "my father 
was a sharecropper" black as many blacks who have achieved many things like 
to suggest. 



When people actually start asking what does Obama stand for. they cannot 
answer. I don't know who I will vote for, but I do not that this "woe is the 
black 
man" stuff will have to end with the election of a black man. That why I 
don't understand why people still think that America is still a racist society. 
I 
don't think that black america can really stomach and end to their problems. 
I am sure that white America cannot wait for the end of the Jena 6 soul 
patrol. 



Black men are still

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[tdemorsella]

In my mind, it is all smoke and mirrors.  The reason I wanted Edwards
is his history of going for the corporate juggler and he seems to be a
donor outsider.   All are hungry for power and that brass ring.  I
think its about picking the lessor of all evils.  Who is likely not to
attack Iran.  Who might cut a few taxes to look good.  Who might
restore some civil liberties or at least prevent some more from being
taken away.  Despite his riches, the powers that be went out of their
way to marginalize Edwards and his history as an attack pit bull up
against the big guys  made me opt for him.  I think his history and
some of his rhetoric terrifies corporate America. That made him my
choice as the lessor of all evils. 

I wanted Gore, because Gore in his writings admitted that before 2000,
that he had sold his soul.  I think the new Gore coming back from
having the election stolen would not have sold his soul this time
around.  I also think he did not run because he knew that he would not
be able to run and win unless he sold his soul.  Selling your soul is
a prerequisite for the job as the leader of our country.  The powers
that be have seen to that.  I thought Edwards, still might have a
little of his left intact

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>  
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 5:02:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> It takes a hook. Clinton has access to ALL of
> this, AND a hook, but her true underwear is showing. As Tracey said,
Clinton
> is mad right wing with hers. Nobody wants to go down that  road again.
> 
> Edwards is a very rich man
> Obama is a rich man
>  
> To say that they respresent poor white men is a joke. Pba,as tried a
liberal 
> foreign policy in the debate and was criticized for it. Especially
with his 
> "Palestinian people are opprssed
> speech.  He will have to become more right wing to fit into a
realistic real 
> war. The Democratic controlled Congress has not been able to cut off
funding 
> or stop the war. Do you think Obama or Edwards can do that? The
Pentagon and 
> the corporations that put them there will not allow that to happen.
 Do no be so 
> quick to be the liberal that could. Liberal Democrrats  have not done 
> anything for the war and have not done anything for this country.
They still vote to 
> send jobs pverseas/ They still fund the war. They still cant balence
the 
> budget. Obama will have to give in to conservative Republicans/ To
say that he will 
> be some great liberal savior is a joke. Even Edwards knows this. 
> 
> 
> 
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [scifinoir2] Nickelodeon Pulls the Plug On Zoey 101

[KeithBJohnson]

Hell, there goes Obama's support if Lil' Romeo is the daddy!  :)

-- Original message -- 
From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
(remember folks: this is a "teaching moment." I wonder what America
will learn if Lil Romeo, as was reported by one black gossip site,
turns out to be the baby daddy?)

http://yeeeah.com/blog/2008/01/03/nickelodeon-pulls-the-plug-on-zoey-101/

Jan 03 2008

Nickelodeon has decided against working statutory rape turned teenage
pregnancy into their hit television series "Zoey 101," which means
Jamie Lynn Spears can officially kiss all but porn and shitty
infomercials good-bye. London's The Sun reports

The show starring Britney Spears' pregnant little sister has been
axed, TV Biz can reveal. The fourth and final season has already been
filmed — with two episodes that will see the end of US schoolgirl
Zoey. And a show source further revealed: "Nickelodeon bosses are
still undecided whether to air season four or not. For now it looks
like it has been canned."

Give it five or ten years and then be on the lookout for the following
titles:
"Zoey — Pants Undone"

"PCA Presents T&A"

"Blow-y 101"

"Naked Brothers Gang Bang"

and my personal favorite:

"Zoey: 3 on 1"


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
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[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[B. Smith]

The basic differences are that it's a public vote, you can't leave
until the caucus is done if you want your vote to count and the
viability rules on the Democratic side. 

If your candidate can't garner 15% or more of the vote at a caucus
location he's not considered viable and his votes go back into play.
Those people can either choose to caucus with another candidate or
leave the caucus. That's when the candidates representatives and
caucus goers get sell their candidate. 

It was a great experience and it was awesome to see a roomful of
people openly expressing their support of Obama.

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> can you briefly explain how a caucus works? How does it differ from
a primary, and what's the difference in how the Democrats and
Republicans do theirs? The Republican results counted actual votes
cast, the Dems just the delegate votes?
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: "B. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> The wife and I caucused for the first time and it was one of the 
> greatest voting experiences we've ever had. They expected approx. 140-
> 150 people at our caucus location but close to 300 people attended. 
> There was a large number of first time voters, independents and even 
> a few converted Republicans our location. The room was packed and 
> people began to sort themselves by candidate. Once registration and 
> sign up was done the fun began. 
> 
> The candidates' representatives gave their speeches on why you should 
> choose their candidate. Some were firey, some were cool, but all of 
> them were true belivers and they and the precinct captains were 
> actively trying to garner support for their candidate. One hilarious 
> Dodd captain was an Irish tenor and he strolled around singing trying 
> to cajole people to come support his candidate. 
> 
> The wheeling and dealing was the most fun part of the experience. The 
> Obama contingent was the largest, loudest and best organized. During 
> the first caucus period some early projections said Obama was winning 
> the state and the place just erupted. 
> 
> As the night went on more undecideds and supporters of non-viable 
> candidates started to drift over to the Obama campaign. Richardson, 
> Kucinich, Biden and Dodd had asked their supporters to caucus for 
> Obama if they were not viable in their precincts. Quite a few Dodd 
> supporters and a few (cause that's all that were there) Kucinich 
> people followed through. Most of the Richardson and Biden folks went 
> home. (haters) 
> 
> We got a final count and Obama handily won our precinct. The room 
> erupted in cheers and then as we were leaving it was announced that 
> Obama was projected to win the state and cheers started again. A lot 
> of folks headed downtown to the victory celebration and the party 
> continued.
> 
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, KeithBJohnson@ wrote:
> >
> > Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a percentage point 
> over Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and McCain 
> as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. 
> Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a real 
> fundamentalist Christian in some ways, but supportive of 
> environmental issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and pretty 
> well respected by many Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could 
> get with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because his positions 
> have flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about 
> an opportunistic chamelon.
> > 
> > Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New 
> Hampshire might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South 
> Carolina and the southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep 
> building and we could be looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which 
> just might win the day, though I still have this nagging doubt that 
> America as a whole will elect a Black man named Obama
> > But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
> > 
> > 
> > http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
> > 
> > With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 
> percent of voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 
> percent for Hillary Clinton.
> > "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and 
> experience, and change won," said CNN political analyst Bill 
> Schneider.
> > Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of 
> Connecticut and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to 
> abandon their White House runs.
> > Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans 
> to "take the fight to New Hampshire."
> > For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for 
> Democrats versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
> > On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, 
> according to CNN's analysis of en

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Bosco Bosco]

If anyone needs any kind of evidence as to entrenched presence of
institutional racism in the United States they need only look at
arrest, conviction and incarceration statistics in the our "Justice
System." Even the folks who work daily in this system will tell you
it is racially biased against blacks and hispanics, most especially
black men. America is racist at deeply fundamental level.

Bosco 
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> i really have to disagree with your saying America's not racist. As
> a Black man I still fight this stuff every day, whether it's
> inferiour white guys on my job giving me grief, the white cop or
> security guard who follows m ein the store, or the more generic
> white attitude that has whites speaking what they think is black
> slang to me, or making assumptions about my values and interests. 
> I worked in HR for a while, and i can tell you that black people
> get discriminated against in hiring all the time, even now in 2008.
> 
> 
> And to say that black people don't want to end our problems? I'm
> surprised at that. I know a lot of blacks, rich and poor, educated
> and illiterate, who might blame some of their problems on racism,
> but they don't *embrace* that as an excuse. But they do see a
> system that still redlines black neighborhoods, that has businesses
> skittish to build in black neighborhoods, real estate agents leery
> of showing homes to blacks in a majority white neighborhood, and
> companies where white people support other whites at our expense.
> It's changed, it's gotten better, but it's not at all some fantasy
> we cook up to blame others for our problems. I'm fairly well
> educated (BS in Electrical Engineering, several hundred hours in
> Microsoft NT/Windows 2000 etc. training) speak "good" English,
> etc., and I still encounter racism and prejudice. i don't go
> looking for it, but i acknowledge it. 
> 
> And even if Obama's elected that doesn't mean racism will end in
> America. A president can attain the White House with basically half
> the vote, meaning half th electorate can still be just as backwards
> and unenlightened as they want.
> 
> Finally, i have to comment on the thing about black man having all
> the advantages. I agree with Tracey's statement: while black men
> may apparently have an "in" in a male dominated corporate
> structure, the truth is that many whites only have room for one or
> the other, black men or black women. And the truth is that often
> white men see competent black men as threats. I have been in many a
> situation where white guys view me with veiled hostility even
> though i've done nothing to them, yet will joke and kid around with
> black women. some of that, frankly, is a sexist attitude: they see
> the women as less of a threat and someone they can joke and kid and
> flirt with. My wife has commented to me more than once on how white
> guys in corporate America are getting bolder than ever in flirting
> with black women. They're *women*, and that makes the guys feel
> good. but as a black man, what can I do for a straight white guy in
> that area? He can't flirt with me, can't feel somehow more
> physically powe
> rful over me the way he might with a woman. he might assume that
> i'm in incoming Alpha male who might mess with his little fiefdom. 
>  So out goes the threat (me) in favor of a black lady that
> threatens the guys less.  
> 
> I feel that you're kind of putting a divide here, drawing a line
> between Brothers and Sisters and lumping us with white men. as if
> you're saying black men take advantage of Sisters too and use the
> system against them. That's not true of all of us by any means. My
> wife is my partner, and i'm just as angry--angrier--at the
> combination sexist/racist treatment she takes as the racist
> treatment i get.  i see a victory for her and all Sisters as a
> victory for us as a people and would never subscribe to the
> philosophy that i'm in the old boys club like the white guys.
> 
> 
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 1:12:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> Most biracial people with African blood are seen as Black -
> particularly those who look Black, say they are Black and are
> Considered prominent members of the Black community. Obama and his
> family are seen as Black. 
> 
> Tracy
> 
> Poll after poll; discussion after discussion sees Obama as a
> biracial man. 
> Halle may be the first "black " actress but she is also seen as
> biracial. Tiger 
> woods may be seen blacks by some people but he is still seen as
> multiethnic 
> also. 
> 
> 
> Conservatives like him because of his biracial background. Not his
> black 
> background. 
> 
> 
> Black men get paid less than White men. a Black man with a
> traditional name is less likely to even get a job interview than a
> white female
> 
> Obama did not start from humble beginnings either. He is not the
> "my father 
> was a s

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[tdemorsella]

Not that I do not believe you about more Repblicans went for him than
Huckabee.  It rings true for me to some degree because of the high
number of independents and that there were four times as many
participated in the democratic caucus than the republican, but could
you provide a source?  

Another point that I mentioned before that it appears that we agree on
is that he qualifies as one of those Blacks that often hear, "you
don't seem Black" or "You're not like them"  He blends in and makes
them feel at ease and more comfortable to vote for then say someone
like Sharpton  

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "tetsuwanatom1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> > I was not aware that conservatives liked him as you suggested.  
> 
> In Iowa, at least, conservatives do. More Republicans caucused with 
> the democrats and voted for Obama than voted for Huck. WHITE 
> REPUBLICANS jumped ship to vote for the Black candidate. This could 
> be part of their misguided strategy to subvert the "electable" 
> candidate, still, numbers mean something.
> 
> Barack Obama on his name alone would be considered an unsafe Black 
> man. He's presented himself as the intelligent but not intellectual, 
> affable and approachable, Black but not too Black candidate. His 
> image is fine toned, make no mistake. White people are for the most 
> part totally confused about the issue of his "Blackness" and I doubt 
> it factors in either way unless they are associating (or confusing) 
> Blackness with "how much is he like me?"
> 
> >Many
> > have tried to portray him as someone with Muslim extremists roots 
> and
> > drug taking.  That is an odd way of showing that you like someone in
> > my opinion.  While I have seen the talking heads say last night that
> > him being "third world " can help us become of the world, I've never
> > heard anyone say they like him because he is biracial.  Even if
> > someone thought that, I do not think they would say it, because it
> > might be perceived as racist.
> > 
> > Tracy
> >  
> > What is said in newspaper articles and internet discussions is 
> difference 
> > what is heard on tv. From some of the more conservative points of 
> view,an Obama 
> > win would be an end to the Jesse Jackson type of black american. An 
> end to 
> > affirmative action and to blacks complaing about racism aka the 
> Jena 6 kind of 
> > marches. 
> >  
> >  
> > In some cases Black men have it easier than White women. I don't 
> believe that 
> > black men are always downtrodden when they step outside the door 
> until they 
> > get home. 
> >  
> > Alot of thlem do have it easier than white women because they are 
> men. 
> > Despite the idea that affirmative action has benefitted white 
> females. Black males 
> > have benefitted from being men. Someties race is not an issue. You 
> are right 
> > that some people don't like Clinto because she is Clinton. However 
> I don't like 
> > the liberal hype that Obama will be any different than any other 
> person. If 
> > the liberal Demoract Congress is any indication that it will be 
> SSDD. 
> >  
> > If you listen to Juan Willams and other talk about  him, they feel 
> that is is 
> > the kind of "black" that should be leading america. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in 
> shape. 
> > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?
> NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Movies Watched Over The Holiday

[KeithBJohnson]

Great comments! I was amazed at the Simpsons take, but i went to 
BoxOfficeMojo.com and confirmed it did half a *billion* dollars so far! Holy 
crap! And most of that was overseas!  Can't wait to see Children of Men. I 
agree with you on "Eastern Promises". Looked great, was a good movie, but left 
me rather despondent and empty feeling inside. It is indeed cold and clinical 
(what my review was called, i believe) where History of Violence was more 
intense. still i liked them both. So for Ratatouille, is it the 3D cgi you 
don't like? Are you and old school 2D "hand drawn" fan? I am, and very few of 
the CGI stuff has really captured me, though "The Incredibles" certainly did.


-- Original message -- 
From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I started with "The Simpsons Movie" which, I am glad I did not pay to
see in a theatre as it comes nowhere near any of the great Simpson
episodes. It is, however, the environmental movie with the largest
box office, thus far: $525,797,315 (as much of an inconvenient truth
as that may be for Nobel laureate Al Gore).

I followed that with "Children of Men," which I have had forever, but
just now got around to seeing. Keith, this is a marvelous movie. 
Alphonso Cuaron's film is so organic and fully realized, it is like
you are not even watching a movie. Paul Greengrass gets lots of press
for the immediacy of his handheld camera style in the Bourne sequels
but he has nothing on Cuaron. 

One of the lovely things about watching DVDs at home, besides the
ability to pause, rewind and fast forward, is the ability to go
on-line while you are watching. When the question "who is that?"
popped into my head, I could go to IMDB and find out "who dat was." I
spent another two hours online researching "Children of Men" while I
let the movie play through again. Chocked full visually, "Childrn"
rewards frequent viewing (you'll be surprised what you missed the
first time).

I followed "Children" with "Eastern Promises." I wanted to see
"Eastern Promises" because I simply adore David Cronenberg's last
film, "A History of Violence." "History" was the movie where I first
became aware of how far Cronenberg had come as a filmmaker. 
Cronenberg is a visual artist fully in charge of his filmmaking gifts.
And he brings these gifts to "Promises." The film is a sumptuous
view of London. Everything seems to be informed by the high end
Russian Restaurant that is at the heart of the evil that saturates
this film.

I did not enjoy "Promises" on anywhere near the visceral level I
enjoyed "History." "History" contains two of the hottest sex scenes
in film history. "Promises" contains one of the most desultory ones.
Viggo Mortensen and Mario Bello have tangible heat in "History."
Mortensen and Naomi Watts barely glance off one another in "Promises."

Both the Tom Stall/Joey Cusack character played by Mortensen in
"Violence" and the Nikolai character he plays in "Promises" are
avenging angels. In fact, "Eastern Promises" is virtually an
inside-out version of "Violence," with the heroes on a similar though
inverse journies toward redemption.

I was annoyed and disappointed by "Ratoutille." Although critics
hailed it, to me it seems like the lesser of a string of great Brad
Bird animated movies, starting with "the Iron Giant." Part of my
problem was the old school 2-D animation. Part of my problem is the
needed suspension of belief. EYE was never able to get past the
premise of that fat rat preparing food in the kitchen. YEEECH!

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> wow! That is quite a feat.How do you process them. I reviewed
"Eastern Promises", you remember. A good but rather dreary and
oppressive feeling movie. I guess you'd have to cleanse your mind with
"The Simpsons" after that, then watch "Children of Men", which I hear
i good, then use "Ratatouille" to give you a light heart again. 
> Did you watch 'em like that, alternating the serious with the
comedic, ending on a happy note? How were "Children of Men" and
"Ratatouille"? Never seen them
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Today I watched "the Simpsons Movie," "Children of Men," "Eastern
> Promises" and "Ratatouille," back to back to back and, right now, they
> are not all getting along inside my head.
> 
> ~rave!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


 

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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

but a woman and a brother?? You really think this country is ready for that?

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I see it as just a matrer of time. None of the other Democratic candidates have 
the footing to make a serious stand and, historuically, a presidential 
candidate chooses someone more or less their polar opposite as a running mate.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wow, i'd be amazed to see that!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Keith, I think that just that will happen, when either the Obama/Clinton or 
Clinton/Obama ticket takes the White House. The two have set themselves up as 
the perfect running mates.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you 
won't see them on the same ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother 
in the same year!

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But I could be wrong--I certainly was tonight!

I guess we will have to wait if America is ready to elect a woman for 
president. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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Re: [scifinoir2] Singer Won't Do Next Superman?

[KeithBJohnson]

if you can do the chapter search, just look for a few key scenes:

* superman saving the plane from crashing--nice FX, the most talked about in 
the movie, but not my fav

* superman saving the crowd in Metropolis during the earthquake --there's an 
amazing moment when debris falls from buildings, threatening the crowd below. 
Superman is flying away from the scene, sees the danger, and, while still 
flying in the same direction, flips over (doin an aerial backstroke of sorts) 
and pulverizes the debris with his heat vision.  The aerial move is really 
quite lovely, the kind of thing you rarely see superheroes do. Usually they 
just fly in a simple direction. It's a special scene that i equate to those 
rare moments in space films when a spaceship actually manuevers in the third 
dimension, instead of the strange convention of always operating in two 
dimensions as they usally do.

* Lex stabbing Superman -- the comedic Lex Luthor pisses me off, the evil, 
sinister one is great.  When Stacey drove that Kryptonite splinth into Supe's 
side, leering with triumph and malice i literally shouted "yeah! That's the 
Luthor I want to see!"  A powerful dark moment that shows what this movie 
could--should--have been

* Superman powering up -- still suffering from Green K poisoning, Clark flies 
into the upper atmosphere to expose himself to direct sunligh. he hovers there 
for a moment in tragic glory, absording the lifeblood of Sol before going back 
to do the impossible (see below).  It's a majestic moment, him above the 
clouds, bathing in that light. I remembering whispering "wow, they get it" at 
that simple scene.

* Superman lifting the new island into the sky -- okay, I'm also *not* a fan of 
the godlike Superman of he movies, the one with powers that allow him to move 
whole planets. But, this scene of him lifting an entire piece of land--while 
green K keeps "growing" from it, killing him--is, well, soaring.

* Falling from the sky --after taxing himself by lifting the island, Clark 
blacks out and falls thousands of feet to Earth. Again, another majestic, 
powerful scene, showing that Singer gets it, able to merge action, FX, music, 
drama, and the magic of comics into one scene.


All of the above are the essence of Superman, from the soaring majesty of  
demigod to the gee-whiz of just having powers, to the solemnity of having all 
that power yet feeling so alone. But outside of that? One long, boring series 
of Lex cracking wise, Lana with the puppy dog eyes, and just generally insipid 
plotting.

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I can get behind that. I've got the movie right now, one of those 
slightly-illicit versions. Think I watched about ten minutes of it before 
turning it off. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of Big Blue, and never have been (all 
of Chris Reeve's exploits, I saw though video), but the movie, to me, was 
supremely unengaging.

Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
So we can just all pretend that "Superman Returns" never happened, then.

On 1/4/08 2:35 AM, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Singer Won't Do Next Superman?
> http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=46890
> Variety columnist Anne Thompson reported that it is "highly unlikely"
> that Superman Returns helmer Bryan Singer will return to shoot the next
> Superman movie.
> 
> Singer is finishing up Tom Cruise's Nazi film Valkyrie and prepping The
> Mayor of Castro Street.
> 
> "The next Superman we will see on the big screen will not be [Superman
> Returns star] Brandon Routh, but a younger Superman among a cast of
> youthful superheroes in ... Justice League," Thompson wrote. "That movie
> will likely not be shot, however, until after the [writers'] strike is
> resolved."
> 
> Thompson also reported details of the upcoming The Dark Knight,
> Christopher Nolan's sequel to his Batman Begins. Warner Brothers is
> hoping Nolan returns for a third installment, Thompson wrote.
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[tdemorsella]

While gymfig may have cut off the comment.  I'm the one that said
"disintegrating".  Perhaps it is  an exaggeration. I certainly hope
so.   But in some parts of the country, black men have 50%
unemployment, college grad rates of black men are decreasing
dramatically, the percentage of Blacks marrying is dropping
dramatically, blacks placed in prison for petty crimes is increasing,
offsprings of middle class blacks are increasingly falling behind;
college educated blacks are finding it increasingly difficult to find
gainful employment, in states where affirmative action has been
abolished blacks pursuing college degrees has been cut in half. 
Community organizations supporting Black communities are finding it
increasingly difficult to secure funds needed for operation.  I could
cite other factors, but if it is not disintegrating, I think something
bad is definitively happening to us and no has yet figured out how to
stop it.  

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Whoa. Whoa, wait. Whoa.
> 
> Disintegrating? Whowhere? I¹m confused. HOW did we get here? You¹ve
cut off
> the post you  were responding to  and I don¹t follow you  right  now
at all.
> 
> 
> On 1/4/08 4:33 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:32:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >   writes:
> > 
> > then somebody please tell me why the black community
> > seems to be disintegrating.
> > 
> > Black males AND black females must take some form of
responsibility for
> > their problems (education, crime, single homes) and stop blaming
racism and
> > one 
> > another.
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> >  
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Movies Watched Over The Holiday

[Martin]

Right. And don't you feel *really* old, all of a sudden?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Right, Chestnut was in a series called "C-16 
FBI", but i can't believe that was ten years ago!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
No, Keith, but Rocky Carroll, of "Roc" fame, and Gloria Reuben were both in it.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0285332/

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: was Morris Chestnut in that one? He was in a 
shortlived show about some law agency

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
More than welcome. And, frankly, you didn't miss much. It was really glossed 
over, IMO. Saccharin, at times. Only one decent character in the bunch, the 
field-op guy, A.B. Stiles, if memory serves. He would never say what the A.B. 
stood for, true spook he was. Once hinted that it might mean "Absolute B*stard".

maidmarian_thepoet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yeah, that was it. I never 
watched it.
Thanks.

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Marian, that was CBS, doing "The Agency".
> 
> maidmarian_thepoet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I guess that I 
am all over the place:
> 
> The Butterfly Effect: Director's Cut - liked it. 
> It has its problems, but the writers put some thought into the 
> movie. 
> The Orchestra of Piazza Vittorio 
> Sweet. Is honest about the problems of community involvement
> in a democracy.
> MI-5, vol 2
> I am enjoying this BBC tv series. I don't think that this 
> would work here. (In fact, didn't a network try to make a series 
> about the CIA?) MI-5 is still a good-guy in the BBC. No way that I 
> could see the CIA as purely a good-guy. A USA series would have to 
be 
> more like "The Shield"--which I never watched either.
> 
> Sweeney Todd
> I've already raved about this.
> I am Legend
> Already talked about.
> 
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly 
> Tracey L. Minor)"  wrote:
> >
> > Hey Gang:
> > 
> > What movies did you watch over the holidays? The would include in 
> the 
> > theatre, on DVD, and on TV. What movies did you like and which 
were 
> duds?
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels 
will get organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A 
Man Without A Country"
> 
> -
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. 
Try it now.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

bra-freakin'-vo!!

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
The only source I¹ve seen you reference is Juan Williams and ³TV². I don¹t
think a yahoo discussion thread is the same as what people feel on the
streets. Change in this country has to happen from all levels, not just
from blogs, but from the streets. Obama and Edwards are hitting up these
unions, the working people in this country. Ain¹t a lot of dock workers
maintaining blogs.

You seem focused all day on Obama having an easy go of it for no other
reason than because he is a partially white male. That was a great
perspective for 1988. Now, honestly? Even the liberal/conservative jazz is
old hat. It¹s more marketing. Being liberal or conservative was the new
³urban². There are some TOTALLY white males -- even on this list -- who will
tell you that just being white is not enough. It takes money, and it takes
a flawless marketing team. It takes a hook. Clinton has access to ALL of
this, AND a hook, but her true underwear is showing. As Tracey said, Clinton
is mad right wing with hers. Nobody wants to go down that road again. It
cost the country BILLIONS of dollars, and thousands of lives. America has
chosen the woman they are going to stand behind, and I say again ‹ her name
is Oprah Winfrey. This is a consumer based economy and she is the #1
influencer across all 50 states. And she has chosen Obama. In 2004 you had
Puffy out here with Vote Or Die T shirts, Oprah, Tom Joyner, Tavis, all the
Black people who can make people do things...all very vocal...all
registering voters...and none of them endorsed a candidate. So guess what
happened...nobody won. This time, everybody is saying Obama. And so, guess
what¹s happening...Obama is coming out of the gates strong.

Black people have to take responsibility for ourselves, yes, but that¹s not
what we¹re talking about. We¹re talking about candidates for president of
the United States. Truth be told, if we were talking about personal
responsibility, we¹d be laughing ALL of these democrats off the stage and
having a long talk with Kucinich to see how serious he REALLY is. Truth
be told, if Black people were about self responsibility, there would have
been three riots by now since 2004. We¹re not TALKING about that. We are
talking about sending four people to the Pro Bowl. The public gets a say in
who goes, and then the game has to be played to decide a winner.

On 1/4/08 4:27 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:51:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  writes:
> 
> I
> believe that for you this conversation has been more about your
> dislike of Obama - which I understand
> 
> It is not my dislike of Obama. I just think that there are issues that will
> not be touched because of gender, race and other problems. Hillary my notr be
> likable, but I don't think Obama is like either. From some of the liberal
> blogs/website people say that he is low on substance. Will the mainstream
> press 
> start going after him? I think not. Also I think that there are those liberals
> that see a win as a end to any racist feeling that may exist in this country.
> Other threads I have seen say that that they voted for Obama because they know
> that he can not win the general election.
> 
> 
> I think he has not been attacted because he was not considered the front
> runner, but will they go after him if he is. Obama has been careful to race
> issues. He has not seem to bee to controversial. Do people really know his
> policies 
> on other issues. Some liberals say he is a republcian-lite. He is not
> different than Clinton. He hope and change message is meaningless. Why should
> he get 
> a free ride while Edwards, Rommney, and Huckabbee have to prove themselves.
> 
> 
> I still don't understand why Edwards is going after Clinto but never goes
> after Obama. He is content to be second place? If he wants the presdiential
> nom, 
> then he needs to go after Obama. Something that only Clinton has done.
> 
> **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

IMO, Edawrds could'v epulled in that younger ticket as easily as Obama did, had 
he not opted to take the hyper-reformist tack that he did. Many on both sides 
of the aisle are veiwing it as something akin to class warfare, and Republicans 
are uniting against him for that reason.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  agreed. It points out a few things. One, that 
every generation there's a man or woman who can reach those still young and 
idealistic enough to believe that a true change is a-comin: the Kennedy's, Bill 
Clinton, now Obama. Two, the only problem is that sometimes the young and 
idealistic don't stay all the way to the end, and the old cynical fogeys turn 
out in greater numbers. Not always, but often. 
Three, Clinton has really been staying put, as you said, not really standing 
*for* anything, just saying "I have more experience and I'm tougher". Static 
message heard too many times. Finally, i believe that *any* frontrunner would 
have seen a decline in the numbers because this went on too freakin' long. had 
Obama started out as the clear frontrunner and gotten all the focus, all the 
attention, all the attacks, I believe that after a campaign this long, people 
would have started picking at him, too. I know enough folks right now who 
aren't enamored of him. If he'd been in front all along this might have been a 
three-way day, or Edwards might have pulled ahead simply by dint of seeming to 
be newer and fresher.

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I just had a look at some of the voter breakdowns, and it seems that Obama won 
through youth more than gender. He's energized the kids out there. Hillary 
standing pat hurt her in the voters' eyes, IMO.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

I do as well. Someone earlier in the post likened him to Reagan, and it's 
oh-so-apt. He plays to whatever tune the crowd calls.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  I keep calling romney Grecian Formula Romney. 
He is way too slick and artificial looking, isn't he? I actually lean towards 
Kucinich and Edwards over the others...

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Never did think much of Romney. (Not that I think much of *any* Republican, 
mind you.) He's slick, *Too* slick. If we're not damn careful, we could be 
calling him President Romney. (If that happens, at least I'm friends with his 
cousin...)

I thought Edwards would pull out the win, too, based on the polls. Something I 
should've known better than to accept, knowing instinctively that such things 
are rarely accurate (polls mostly being about asking the people a pollster 
*wants* to ask the question of, not gaining a true representative sample). Also 
saw that Biden and Dodd have both dropped out of the race on the Democratic 
side. A shame, that, because now there's no real force for change in the 
running (Kucinich is there, yes, but who even knows him?). Whoever wins will, 
unfortunately, be more of the same, and my Yahu addy will end in .ca instead of 
.com, because I'll be a Canadian citizen.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a 
percentage point over Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and 
McCain as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. 
Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a real fundamentalist 
Christian in some ways, but supportive of environmental issues, not averse to 
taxing for the poor, and pretty well respected by many Blacks--at least in 
Arkansas. I never could get with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because 
his positions have flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk 
about an opportunistic chamelon.

Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire 
might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the 
southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be 
looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I 
still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man 
named Obama
But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html

With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent of 
voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary 
Clinton.
"The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and 
change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut 
and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House 
runs.
Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the 
fight to New Hampshire."
For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats 
versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according 
to CNN's analysis of entrance polls. 
Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in history." 
"You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and 
say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has 
come." 
Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among 
evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Maybe he wasn't. He was born and raised in Salt Lake City, though. Moved east 
because, in his own words, he wanted a change of scenery. Had a full ride 
offered to him at both UUtah and UCLA.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  maybe he wasn't really indoctrinated into 
that specific line of thinking?

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
In all honesty, learning this came as a shock to me. When I was in college, one 
of my best friends was Mormon (and I attended Virginia State, an HCBU), and we 
were almost inseparable. He never showed any inclinations of thinking of me, or 
anyone else in our cadre, as second-class anything.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the Mormon church codified the belief of us as second class is distasteful.

I am not concerned about how the Mormans see blacks. I am syaing that non 
blacks don't like Mormons because they see it as a cult. They question how a 
man could receuve instruction and write a book that rivals the bibile. That is 
they way alot of non Mormans see it. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Preachify, brother!

Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
The start of the civil rights movement of the 21st century started on
January 1, 2000. We don¹t use TV cameras anymore. We don¹t wait on leaders.
We don¹t wait until 1,000,000 people agree with us and go have a meeting. We
go make changes. We go take our stuff and get called rude. We take care of
and defend our families. We defend our homes. What the Jena 6 media coverage
did was bring us BACK to the 20th century. The whole point of the Jena 6
story was the dangone TREE. We allowed ourselves to get distracted because
some online group started a bus trip, and start that marching again. The
whole point was the TREE, and they cut the tree down. The 21st Century Civil
Rights movement is not sending 2 of the Jena 6 to the BET Awards. It¹s using
that money to hire the best lawyer in the country so that the other 4 walk.

On 1/4/08 5:00 PM, "Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I first saw Gymfig's reply this morn, I ahd a thought that I left
> unvoiced, because I'm loathe to admit that I agree with the sentiment,
> especially since it's out of the mouth of Al Sharpton, but here it is.
> 
> he said, during a rally for the Jena 6, that we were facign the start of "the
> Civil Rights Movement of the 21st Century". And he's right, as long as such
> thoughts as these can be voiced by us.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
> not sure. i can never decide if America is more averse to a white woman or a
> Black man as Prez. What i was saying here, though, is that they'd not support
> both on the same ticket.
> 
> Curious how far behind "civilized" America is: Britain and Israel had female
> prime ministers decades ago. Even Pakistan has had a female leader! Peru had a
> president of Asian descent. And we're still having to discuss whether a woman
> or person of color can lead the Great American Melting Pot??
> 
> -- Original message --
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  writes:
> 
> or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same
> ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!
> 
> So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?
> 
> **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get
> organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A
> Country"
> 
> -
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Movies Watched Over The Holiday

[KeithBJohnson]

indeed!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Right. And don't you feel *really* old, all of a sudden?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right, Chestnut was in a series called "C-16 FBI", but 
i can't believe that was ten years ago!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
No, Keith, but Rocky Carroll, of "Roc" fame, and Gloria Reuben were both in it.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0285332/

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: was Morris Chestnut in that one? He was in a 
shortlived show about some law agency

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
More than welcome. And, frankly, you didn't miss much. It was really glossed 
over, IMO. Saccharin, at times. Only one decent character in the bunch, the 
field-op guy, A.B. Stiles, if memory serves. He would never say what the A.B. 
stood for, true spook he was. Once hinted that it might mean "Absolute B*stard".

maidmarian_thepoet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yeah, that was it. I never 
watched it.
Thanks.

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Marian, that was CBS, doing "The Agency".
> 
> maidmarian_thepoet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I guess that I 
am all over the place:
> 
> The Butterfly Effect: Director's Cut - liked it. 
> It has its problems, but the writers put some thought into the 
> movie. 
> The Orchestra of Piazza Vittorio 
> Sweet. Is honest about the problems of community involvement
> in a democracy.
> MI-5, vol 2
> I am enjoying this BBC tv series. I don't think that this 
> would work here. (In fact, didn't a network try to make a series 
> about the CIA?) MI-5 is still a good-guy in the BBC. No way that I 
> could see the CIA as purely a good-guy. A USA series would have to 
be 
> more like "The Shield"--which I never watched either.
> 
> Sweeney Todd
> I've already raved about this.
> I am Legend
> Already talked about.
> 
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly 
> Tracey L. Minor)"  wrote:
> >
> > Hey Gang:
> > 
> > What movies did you watch over the holidays? The would include in 
> the 
> > theatre, on DVD, and on TV. What movies did you like and which 
were 
> duds?
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels 
will get organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A 
Man Without A Country"
> 
> -
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. 
Try it now.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Amy Harlib]

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Amen!  And amazing too!
Amy

Daryle wrote:
> A Black man beating a popular and connected white  woman for a major 
> office
> is BRAND new. Plain ol¹  ³A man beating a woman² = John Kerry  getting the
> democratic nomination over Carol Mosley Braun. Please be clear, ³biracial²
> or not, this is America. One drop rule in FULL effect. Obama is BLACK. His
> wife is black, his kids are black, he¹s closer to Africa than most of the
> people who will vote for him. Nobody¹s seeing him as ³biracial² except 
> Black
> people, who still see Hispanics as ³another race². This is a Black man, 
> who
> came form NO connections, NO influence, winning in IOWA. This is literally
> the same thing as Mos Def becoming Prime Minister of France. It is a very
> big fricken deal.
>
>
> On 1/4/08 8:08 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> A man beating a woman is NOTHING new
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links





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12:09 PM

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

yeah, talk about someone made of plastic

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I do as well. Someone earlier in the post likened him to Reagan, and it's 
oh-so-apt. He plays to whatever tune the crowd calls.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I keep calling romney Grecian Formula Romney. He is 
way too slick and artificial looking, isn't he? I actually lean towards 
Kucinich and Edwards over the others...

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Never did think much of Romney. (Not that I think much of *any* Republican, 
mind you.) He's slick, *Too* slick. If we're not damn careful, we could be 
calling him President Romney. (If that happens, at least I'm friends with his 
cousin...)

I thought Edwards would pull out the win, too, based on the polls. Something I 
should've known better than to accept, knowing instinctively that such things 
are rarely accurate (polls mostly being about asking the people a pollster 
*wants* to ask the question of, not gaining a true representative sample). Also 
saw that Biden and Dodd have both dropped out of the race on the Democratic 
side. A shame, that, because now there's no real force for change in the 
running (Kucinich is there, yes, but who even knows him?). Whoever wins will, 
unfortunately, be more of the same, and my Yahu addy will end in .ca instead of 
.com, because I'll be a Canadian citizen.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a 
percentage point over Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and 
McCain as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. 
Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a real fundamentalist 
Christian in some ways, but supportive of environmental issues, not averse to 
taxing for the poor, and pretty well respected by many Blacks--at least in 
Arkansas. I never could get with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because 
his positions have flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk 
about an opportunistic chamelon.

Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire 
might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the 
southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be 
looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I 
still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man 
named Obama
But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html

With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent of 
voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary 
Clinton.
"The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and 
change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut 
and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House 
runs.
Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the 
fight to New Hampshire."
For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats 
versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according 
to CNN's analysis of entrance polls. 
Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in history." 
"You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and 
say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has 
come." 
Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among 
evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

so you think Edwards went too far in his righteous anger?

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
IMO, Edawrds could'v epulled in that younger ticket as easily as Obama did, had 
he not opted to take the hyper-reformist tack that he did. Many on both sides 
of the aisle are veiwing it as something akin to class warfare, and Republicans 
are uniting against him for that reason.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: agreed. It points out a few things. One, that every 
generation there's a man or woman who can reach those still young and 
idealistic enough to believe that a true change is a-comin: the Kennedy's, Bill 
Clinton, now Obama. Two, the only problem is that sometimes the young and 
idealistic don't stay all the way to the end, and the old cynical fogeys turn 
out in greater numbers. Not always, but often. 
Three, Clinton has really been staying put, as you said, not really standing 
*for* anything, just saying "I have more experience and I'm tougher". Static 
message heard too many times. Finally, i believe that *any* frontrunner would 
have seen a decline in the numbers because this went on too freakin' long. had 
Obama started out as the clear frontrunner and gotten all the focus, all the 
attention, all the attacks, I believe that after a campaign this long, people 
would have started picking at him, too. I know enough folks right now who 
aren't enamored of him. If he'd been in front all along this might have been a 
three-way day, or Edwards might have pulled ahead simply by dint of seeming to 
be newer and fresher.

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I just had a look at some of the voter breakdowns, and it seems that Obama won 
through youth more than gender. He's energized the kids out there. Hillary 
standing pat hurt her in the voters' eyes, IMO.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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[scifinoir2] Del Toro to Resurrect Frankenstein

[tdemorsella]

Del Toro to Resurrect Frankenstein
Helmer also talks Potter and The Hobbit!
by Orlando Parfitt, IGN UK
http://movies.ign.com/articles/843/843539p1.html
UK, January 4, 2008 - Guillermo del Toro -- visionary director of
Hellboy and Pan's Labyrinth -- is apparently planning a movie version
of Mary Shelly's monster classic Frankenstein.

The Mexican helmer told MTV News he's in planning on the "definitive
take" of the spooky tale, and revealed that he's already begun
pre-production duties and is crafting several drawings. "I started
doing some notes before the strike," he revealed. "[During the strike]
I can only draw now."

Apparently, he's always been interested in directing a version of
Frankenstein. He explained: "The only way to do the Shelley novel is
to actually do a four-hour miniseries, but I think there are
permutations in which you can tell the myth in a different way."

Tantalisingly, del Toro also spoke about possibly directing fanboy
heavyweights The Hobbit and the final Harry Potter film.