RE: CSWas: Body pH, Now: Kombucha Tea
Yes. simply use a filter. Cheesecloth works well and you can add as many layers as you have patience for.. You can use a metal prefer plastic filter and a large funnel. Suggest then bottling using a plastic water bottle. Fill to the brim, and give a squeeze to remove all the air and then cap. Ed Kasper LAc. Licensed Acupuncturist Herbalist Acupuncture is a jab well done www.HappyHerbalist.com Santa Cruz, CA. -Original Message- From: marmar...@aol.com [mailto:marmar...@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 10:37 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSWas: Body pH, Now: Kombucha Tea In a message dated 3/27/2005 11:07:21 AM Central Standard Time, edkas...@pacbell.net writes: Coral Calcium plus Kombucha Tea balances the body's pH. Ed -- I have a question for you regarding Kombucha Tea. I tried Kombucha several years ago. Was very successful growing new mushrooms and creating the liquid. But had a very hard time drinking it because I could not completely free the liquid from *strands* of matter -- which would of course become another mushroom. When I'd come upon one of these, it made me gag. Consequently, I just gave up. Is there a way to get around this problem? MA
Re: CS
I'm not Brooks, but I have one comment about this: it can be difficult to re-hydrate with water, because large quantities can cause a feeling of bloating and nausea. I live in a very, very hot and humid summer climate, and I perspire heavily and become dehydrated easily. For that reason, I am extremely pleased with the Japanese alkaline micro-cluster water devices, which these days cost under $500 dollars. On sale a good unit is less than $300.The one I have has been working well for about a decade. This water has a smaller molecular size, and I can drink a liter at once without that awful bloating effect. This alone makes the machine worthy of consideration for those whose budget permits. Note also that the water is reportedly highly antioxidant, contains calcium, and improves the tastes of food and drink.Of course it includes a good qualify water filter as well. Prices quoted in the USA for these machines are typically exorbitant. You could pay for a trip to Tokyo and pick one up there for the price of some I have seen advertised. On Monday, Mar 28, 2005, at 01:41 Asia/Tokyo, David S Osborne wrote: BROOKS:would you comment? Dr. Mercola's Comment re sports drinks: So by all means, get out there and take advantage of the spring weather by hiking, jogging, walking, playing tennis--anything to be active. But leave the sports drinks at home, or, better yet, back on the supermarket shelf and bring some water with you instead.
Re: CSppm meters
First, the obvious: you certainly meant barely distinguishable, or almost indistinguishable. That is a minor point. The major point for most of us on this list is your observation that both ionic products and particulate products have nearly identical effects. This would seem to be contrary to your earlier assertions that it was only the particulate component of EIS that had an effect. If I properly understand your message below, you have had a major change in thinking from your earlier postings. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting your points. If I am not, we list members are seeing a very important change in your opinion, which is important as I believe you have made a good-faith effort to present the scientific facts as you see them. From a layman's point of view, it seems to me that Mesosilver may prove most useful as a component of composite commercial products, which I know is something you are working on.I had the off-the-cuff idea, for example, of adding Mesosilver to bloodroot tincture, and idea I am putting in the public domain to discourage patents from making this product, if useful, too expensive for ordinary people.Ionic silver products would not work for mixing up in cosmetics and other products. Thanks in advance for any clarification. JBB On Sunday, Mar 27, 2005, at 08:22 Asia/Tokyo, Info wrote: When an ionic product is tested using the same challenge protocol, the results are barely indistinguishable. Here is a link to a challenge test that include Mesosilver at 20.0 ppm and ASAP22 that was measured to be 22.3 ppm (a silver concentration 11.5% higher than the Mesosilver). http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/EMSL/Ecoli2.pdf ASAP 22 is far superior at killing pathogens compared to Sovereign Silver 10 ppm because is has more than twice the silver concentration. The test clearly indicates that the ASAP 22 produced virtually the same results as Mesosilver. Yet Quinto would have us believe from his tests that his 10 ppm product works and Mesosilver does nothing. Utter nonsense! The Quinto tests lack the quality required for publication, their usefulness being limited to presentation to lay people who can easily be fooled. This is the same bogus science that brought us his TEM images of ionic silver. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal From: M. G. Devour Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:00:19 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m78957.html Frank writes: As far as we can determine silver chloride is found in the bloodstream as a result of ingesting ionic silver. Like others before us, we used an Ion Selective Electrode (ISE) to search for silver ions and found no significant silver content while the ICP/AES did find silver in the blood serum. We take this to mean that while silver in some form, most likely silver chloride, is present while silver ions are not present. Frank, 1. what were the readings on the AES? 2. what is the make and model of the ISE? 3. what is the detection limit of the ISE? 4. what are the selectivity coefficients of the ISE wrt sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, copper, zinc, chromium, proteins, and other constituents of the blood? 5. What is the volume of cs ingested? 6. What is the ionic content of the cs? Thanks, Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
CSIonic versus Colloidal From: Info Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 19:14:16 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m78954.html Mike Monett wrote: This is not necessarily true, Mike. Silver chloride has a solubility of 0.89 ppm in distilled water. This means a concentration less than this results in the silver and chlorine ions going their separate ways. 0.89 in pure water, not blood serum which contains 3500 ppm of chloride. Dr. Maass has calculated that the solubility of AgCl in blood serum cannot exceed 1.94 x 10-4 ppm. See his calculation here: http://www.silver-colloids.com/misc/Ionic-response.htm Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com Marshall posted a rebuttal on 26 Jan 2005, showing the solubility of AgCl in blood is 0.9ppm: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m77225.html Have you responded to Marshall's analysis? Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSWarning for LV CS
Lets Explore this Further, where did this warning come from. Could any build up show up on a yearly Chest x Ray (Was esposed to Asbestosis, hence the X Ray). I have been using lowvoltage CS in Nebulizer for about 3 years. Bob -Original Message- From: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com [mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com] On Behalf Of sol Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 9:52 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSWarning for LV CS What surface? sol WARNING: DO NOT USE THE NEBULIZER TO ADMINISTER LOW QUALITY - LOW BIO-AVAILABILITY COLLOIDAL SILVER! REASON: If the particle size is too large to 'penetrate' into the tissues, whatever is NOT absorbed remains on the surface, eventually causing build-ups and accumulation. Use the Nebulizer ONLY to administer a very highly bio-available CS - 80% and up! Remember, most LVDC CS is only 10-30% bio-available! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.2 - Release Date: 3/25/2005 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS Fibromyalgia
- Original Message - From: Laurie Bartlett douglau...@comcast.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 9:58 PM Subject: CS Trem, Or anybody who can answer this. My husband has Fibromyalgia. Are you familiar with this and if so have you heard of anybody's experiences using ionic and/or colloidal ? Or do you have any suggestions. He was just diagnosed about a month ago so I am checking into all avenues that could help him with this ugly disease. Thanks in advance for anything you come up with. Laurie Laurie, To the extent that the fibro is caused by pathogenic microbes (some say that viruses and even Lyme spirochetes are implicated), the CS could be helpful if enough was taken. However, and I speak from experience, there's also lots that can be done dietarily. No sugars, fake foods, and I'd also suggest eliminating glutenous grains which can cause mucho digestive and systemic problems even if it's not full-blown celiac disease. Also it's paramount to get enough minerals. Many people with fibro are deficient in, or require very high amounts of, magnesium and other minerals including trace minerals. Formulations for fibro from the health food store include malic acid to feed the mitochondria, the energy centers of the cells. It seems that the body's ability to metabolize completely and obtain enough energy is compromised with fibro. My own aches and pains always reduce significantly when I drink an alkalizing green drink. I use (and promote, and sell) Super Greens, a highly charged green powder from Inner Light made from many grasses and herbs. It works optimally with a liquid called Prime pH which is free oxygen and liberates the calcium in the greens. Together they have a potent positive effect in the body. People with fibro and what is called arthritis do really well on these products, because they alkalize the body and help flush out poisons. However, any green drink you feel drawn to could do the trick as long as it's potent. I can tell that the Super Greens is potent and alive because when I scoop it up on a spoon the powder forms static electricity hairs. Another *big* factor is sweating to eliminate the waste material from microbes -- as well as those wastes that occur naturally as a result of cell metabolism. I am not exaggerating when I say that sauna therapy is absolutely fantastic for pain-related conditions, especially if you're using a far infrared sauna. It's partly the heat, but also the elimination of poisons that accumulate in the body. (And of course when you sweat, you have to be super diligent about replenishing minerals.) Ozone therapy could also be beneficial. The ozone kills microbes and also helps the body's tissues and immune function work better. You can find more information about most of the above on my website. Best, Nenah Nenah Sylver, PhD http://www.nenahsylver.com available now: The Handbook of Rife Frequency Healing The Holistic Handbook of Sauna Therapy products and services for wellness -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSMexican water purification
And this is the point when this discussion should have gone to private e-mail rather than clutter the list with anything commercial. William, check carefully to make sure you have Bill M.'s private e-mail address in the To: field before hitting Send. Thanks, Mike Devour silver-list owner Hello again William, I think that I got your reply but no information on ordering. Could you please send. William Castle -Original Message- From: William Castle [mailto:pollyw...@infoblvd.net] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:00 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: RE: CSMexican water purification Hello William, Could you please provide me with the information needed to order some of the Microdyn 3200ppm Thank you, William Castle -Original Message- From: William Missett [mailto:miss...@prodigy.net.mx] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:14 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSMexican water purification It's Microdyn, reputedly 3200ppm, now available in 1-liter size bottles, for only $11US. - Original Message - From: Albert Peirce mailto:aepei...@cinci.rr.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:44 AM Subject: CSMexican water purification Forgive me a senior moment, but what is the name of the silver water purification product? Thanks in advance, Al [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSMexican water purification
Forgive me a senior moment, but what is the name of the silver water purification product? Thanks in advance, Al
Re: CSbasic dumb question
When using too much current, electrode ends close to the bottom, no stirring and lit from the bottom.. I have seen white particles at one electrode appearing to strean towards the other electrode, golden particles at the other appearing to go the other way and nothing in between. Under one electrode a white dusty looking deposit forms that fairly hard to remove. That electrode develops a white coating that can go to a tan color if the process goes long enough. [Presumably silver hydroxide and/or silver trapped on hydrogen bubbles] The other electrode accumulates a black deposit with a black spot underneath. [Presumably silver oxides] In between the spots will be metallic silver plateout like a mirror if you let it go for a long time. The mirror is virtually impossible to remove. While perusing chemical experiment sites etc, I have run across statements such as silver hydroxide is more soluable than silver hydroxide Many things get mis stated on websites and even in scientific papers. One reference to silver hydroxide being black begs confirmation from elsewhere. They may have 'meant' to say silver oxide. Ode -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS and heating
Heating the water increases Brownian motion leading to particle collisions and yellow CS at fairly low concentrations. The threshold seems to be around 120 deg F. Pre heating the water to 'luke hot'?.. around 90 to 110 deg F and letting it cool while making CS induces a thermal stir effect that does well on small batches. On larger batches, the stir effect slows down when it's needed the most. Preheating also increases intial water conductivity to speed things up when it does the least harm, that is, when there are very few particles to collide. A pale yellow CS is not bad.. it could be better, that's all. Ode At 09:33 AM 3/28/2005 +0200, you wrote: Hello everybody, I understand from a previous question, about heating CS, that this is not advisable. As I am making my own CS since last week, I am still in the middle of experimenting. For instance someone advised me to use 500 ml cold, and 500 ml heated (not boil) water, so that the total of 1 litre would be around 60 degrees Celcius. This warm temperature would make a better CS I was told. Uptil now I got a cristal clear, colourless quality of CS by using sterilised - only cold - water from the chemist. But when I warmed half a litre and poured it with the cold half a litre, the endresult of the CS was light yellow, not cristal clear colourless. Is it right to conclude that heating part of the water is no good idea, perhaps because of mineral parts from the kettle? Another question: what sort of quality is CS with a light yellow colour? Is it only good enough to water the plants for instance, but not good enough to ingest? Thanks, and looking forward to your reply! Erna Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005
Re: CSppm meters
But in that particular photo [ionpud1.jpg], there IS no tan color to that 'particle stream' anywhere. The color is an artifact of the yellowish lighting while taking the photo. The color 'reproduction' is not accurate. [But may be similar to colors that you see in 'your' setup.] There is no 'yellow' There is no 'golden' It is white. It is pure white. It is nothing but white. The only times I've seen any such colors in the particle 'stream' was when current density was too high. The current density is not too high. I've seen silver hydroxide listed in chemical cataloges as a white powder. Leastways, I think I did. [Can't find it listed ANYWHERE now..dang!] One reference to silver hydroxide as a tan powder used in anion experiments A tan deposit can form on one electrode under certain conditions but it's not always tan. White is more usual for me. After drying, that white deposit smears shiny silver on fingers etc. Ode At 01:32 PM 3/27/2005 -0500, you wrote: > >Re: CS>ppm meters >From: Ode Coyote >Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 07:05:34 >http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m78972.html > > > http://www.silverpuppy.com/resource/ > > > There is no tan color in that photo that's not an artifact of the > > lighting adding a golden hue to everything. > > > I think I made note of that somewhere in there. The particle cloud > > is pure white in real life. > > > Ode > > As you can see in the photos, the color depends on the lighting and > where you look in the mist trail. The color fades as the oxides > dissipate into the dw. > > Jason refers to it as yellow: > >Anywhere between 15 and 30 minutes, one should notice a thin >yellow cloud or a yellow wisp drifting between the electrodes. > >http://www.silvermedicine.org/usage.html > > Utopia Silver calls it gold: > >Here is the golden mist process at work as the solution nears >10 ppm. This is the optimum concentration using this process. > >http://www.utopiasilver.com/generator.htm > > Peter Lindemann calls it yellow: > >Then finally, a faint yellow mist will begin to form. Within a >few minutes, the reaction will speed up, but the particles >produced will be a golden-yellow as viewed with a flashlight. > >http://www.silvergen.com/colloida.htm > > Others in the archives have called it tan or brown. To me, it's tan. > >Regards, > >Mike Monett > > >-- >The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. > >Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com >Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > >Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com >OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html > >List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com> > > > > >-- >Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 > >--===AVGMAIL-42480C440497=== Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-472C7C2C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: AVG certification Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005
Re: CSCS Questions
At 07:47 PM 3/27/2005 -0600, you wrote: Hi, I've been lurking and trying to learn as much about collodial silver as possible for about the past 6 months and I've learned a tremendous amount. I plan on buying my own generator soon but right now I have two questions I hope someone can help me with. Can collodial silver be warmed in the microwave? I want to use it in my husbands and dog's ears and it would just be easier to heat it a few seconds in the microwave it it doesn't harm the silver. ## I've done it and noticed no change. However, heating CS up beyond 120 deg F while it's being made practically gaurantees a yellow batch. I just nuked some colorless 20 PPM CS to a rapid boil...no immediate change Second, I just purchased a bottle of collodial silver from my food co-op. It is made by Futurebiotics and is 10 ppm. I noticed the color is a light yellow. Since it's not clear, does this mean it is not of good quality? ## Pale yellow at 10 PPM..could be better. [Not bad..if it's 'really' CS] Read the fine print. Most commercial stuff is MSP or made by a chemical precipitate method as is made near here by the 55 gallon drum. [Moncure NC] Ode Thanks for any info you can give me. Yvonne -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005
RE: CSMexican water purification
Hello William, Could you please provide me with the information needed to order some of the Microdyn 3200ppm Thank you, William Castle -Original Message- From: William Missett [mailto:miss...@prodigy.net.mx] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:14 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSMexican water purification It's Microdyn, reputedly 3200ppm, now available in 1-liter size bottles, for only $11US. - Original Message - From: Albert Peirce mailto:aepei...@cinci.rr.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:44 AM Subject: CSMexican water purification Forgive me a senior moment, but what is the name of the silver water purification product? Thanks in advance, Al
Re: CSWarning for LV CS
I have observed the following and would like all to hear from you all your different perspectives : Why is it when I hit any part of my body, not drawing blood, that by using C.S. thereon by applying a soaked pad of it - there is practically no bruising or inflammation - this interests me - thanks Sandee The one who accomplished it is the one who failed to realize that he could not do it. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS and heating
Greetings Erna, Making sure you get an answer amid the spirited debate over the scientific details... ahem I understand from a previous question, about heating CS, that this is not advisable. As I am making my own CS since last week, I am still in the middle of experimenting. For instance someone advised me to use 500 ml cold, and 500 ml heated (not boil) water, so that the total of 1 litre would be around 60 degrees Celcius. This warm temperature would make a better CS I was told. Uptil now I got a cristal clear, colourless quality of CS by using sterilised - only cold - water from the chemist. But when I warmed half a litre and poured it with the cold half a litre, the endresult of the CS was light yellow, not cristal clear colourless. Is it right to conclude that heating part of the water is no good idea, perhaps because of mineral parts from the kettle? I can give you a few observations on this: Yes, if you're going to heat part of the water, do not use a metal container or one that has had anything else in it. Easiest to do would be to put the water in a clean bottle and heat *that* in a pan full of hot water... sort of like a double boiler. Anything you use to make CS in should be very clean... If you used soap, then rinse it several times in very hot water, then follow up with at least 3 rinses with distilled water. You only need a bit of water per rinse, and swish it around. Most often, you don't do any more cleaning between batches than another distilled water rinse. I don't know how vital it is to heat the water. Please let us know what type of generator setup you're using to make your CS, and what the recipe or directions say. Then we'll be able to give you specific advice for your process. Another question: what sort of quality is CS with a light yellow colour? Is it only good enough to water the plants for instance, but not good enough to ingest? Plenty of us have used (and consumed) light yellow CS. It'll still be plenty good, just might not be as good as some other batch will be. Hope that helps. Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMexican water purification
It's Microdyn, reputedly 3200ppm, now available in 1-liter size bottles, for only $11US. - Original Message - From: Albert Peirce To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:44 AM Subject: CSMexican water purification Forgive me a senior moment, but what is the name of the silver water purification product? Thanks in advance, Al
RE: CSMexican water purification
Hello again William, I think that I got your reply but no information on ordering. Could you please send. William Castle -Original Message- From: William Castle [mailto:pollyw...@infoblvd.net] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:00 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: RE: CSMexican water purification Hello William, Could you please provide me with the information needed to order some of the Microdyn 3200ppm Thank you, William Castle -Original Message- From: William Missett [mailto:miss...@prodigy.net.mx] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:14 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSMexican water purification It's Microdyn, reputedly 3200ppm, now available in 1-liter size bottles, for only $11US. - Original Message - From: Albert Peirce mailto:aepei...@cinci.rr.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:44 AM Subject: CSMexican water purification Forgive me a senior moment, but what is the name of the silver water purification product? Thanks in advance, Al
Re: CSLooking back...
Mike, My earliest saved post is from 11/12/1997. If I remember correctly, I learned about the 'original' silver list from Cliff Hume while a member of (suprisingly enough!) a political mailing list he ran at that time. George On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 23:22:51 -5, M. G. Devour wrote: Hi Gang, Looking through my off-list correspondence with Cliff Hume, I realized that he's been around since at least 1998. He may be one of the original members who were here when I took over. I know many of those 113 folks have moved on in the last 7 years, but I know there's still a few of you out there! Chime in if you've been here all that time! I'd love to know who's still out there. Be well, Mike D. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CShigh ppm CS experiment, was Re: CSCS site
Jim Holmes wrote: Please explain in more detail. My current understanding. A part-particulate, part-Ionic solution is generated. The liquid is centrifuged, pushing the particles to the bottom. Yes, if you do that, then it will form one big glob of silver. The liquid is poured off. More liquid is added to the concentrate. Then you would have something akin to water with a dime at the bottom. So, it is not longer a colloid. That is correct. you would have water with a glob of silver metal at the bottom Did I understand correctly. Yes. Marshall Thank you for your patience. Jim -Original Message- From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 4:16 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CShigh ppm CS experiment, was Re: CSCS site Jim Holmes wrote: I cannot remember where I got that Marshall, but probably from Bruce Marx, who knows Key well. Could you not just decant the ionic supernant? If you do that you are left with the silver particle precipitate, not a colloid. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSilver-Colloids responds
Mike Monett wrote: Re: CSSilver-Colloids responds From: Marshall Dudley Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:04:48 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m78873.html Mike Monett wrote: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m78800.html [...] That which reaches the blood stream does not stay in ionic form long though. There are two mechanisms at work that should quickly reduce the ionic (dissolved) silver chloride to silver particles. The first is the normal photographic process. In the presence of any developer in the blood, such as caffine or hydrogen peroxide, the silver chloride will reduce upon contact with silver particles. [...] Can you supply a reference for the reaction of converting silver chloride to silver using H2O2? I just did a quick test using 36.1uS cs. I poured 1/2 inch in two glasses. Added a few crystals of Windsor pickling salt to each. Got a strong opaque white dispersion in both. Added 1/2 inch of H2O2 to one glass. Nothing happened. There was no change in color in the glass with H2O2 added. Both solutions turned gray after a few hours due to strong light from a 160 watt overhead flourescent light fixture 42 inches way. A few hours later, both solutions turned clear as the dispersion settled to the bottom. If H2O2 converted silver chloride to elemental silver, the white dispersion whould have disappeared. It did not. Mike Monett There are several, here is one: http://www.freshpatents.com/Silver-halide-photographic-light-sensitive-material-dt20041014ptan20040202974.php [0199] Furthermore, a development method where the coated silver amount of the light-sensitive material is reduced and a treatment for amplifying the image (intensification treatment) using hydrogen peroxide is performed, is also preferably used. More specifically, an image formation method using an activator solution containing hydrogen peroxide is preferred and this is described in JP-A-8-297354 and JP-A-9-152695. Apparently, it acts more as an enhancement for development than for development. So it would enhance the development or reduction process in the blood stream. Don't forget for reduction the solution must be basic, like the blood. You may try adding some sodium hydroxide to the solution and see if it will reduce that way. But without another developer present it may be slow or non-existant. Marshall I agree. Non-existant in your original context. I don't think coffee would do it either. Are you referring to the ability for caffine to cause the reduction of silver salts to particles (IE develop photos). See http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/text-coffee.html Marshall Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMSM and stomach reaction
Can be a contimanate in the MSM. A couple of years ago I switched brands of MSM, my wife got deathly ill when she took it. It did not affect me, but when she went back to the original brand it was fine. Even though it did not affect me, I decided to toss it anyway. Marshall Deborah Gerard wrote: Can someone comment on why, or if it would be the problem, one would have a reaction to MSM on taking it. I don't know if it is a coincidence maybe but my gastrointestinal tract is in an uproar from taking it...again it might be something else...Thanks Debbie -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe[2]: CSBody pH
The acid water has positive hydrogen ions in it, the yummiest food for the mitochodria to aid in their photosynthesis. Take care, V You might be interested, then, in Megahydrate, which supplies the hydrogen but it is alkaline too, plus is a strong antioxidant. Duncan -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSWarning for LV CS
HRBE wrote: Another question, when the term LV is used I take it that it means low voltage. If it does, can someone tell me what is low voltage? I believe that the low voltage is normally in the range of 9 to 50 volts DC. HVAC is nomally in the range of 8 to 12 KV AC. Marshall John in Australia - Original Message - From: Jim Holmes ami...@starband.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: RE: CSWarning for LV CS : That sounds like something that Bruce Marx wrote. : : How big is too big, and how do you know if you are making it? : : Jim -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSUnsubscribe
Unsubscribe Unsubscribing list in favour of silver -digest . -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSHow much CS is too much? Is CS effective in treating Candida and ADHD?
fernwo...@aol.com wrote: Hi everyone,I belong to an ADHD list that has mentioned candida as a cause of ADHD. When I mentioned the use of CS for Candida, a few said they had heard that it was effective but were afraid that using it could cause argyria. Argyria is caused by ionic silver, that is silver compounds, not colloidal silver. Colloidal silver should prevent argyria by giving nucleation sites for any silver compounds to plate out on so it does not happen in the skin where it can get stuck. EIS which is a combination of ionic and colloidal silver does not cause argyria either, most likely due to the low concentration of ionic content ( 20 ppm) or the present of the colloidal portion or both. There has never been one single case or argyria from properly made EIS (what most people make when they make using distilled water and what they often call colloidal silver). I seem to remember someone on this list years ago that said they drank a gallon of CS a day for serious illnesses. I am sure several on this list have done so. I have drunk several quarts a day for a couple of weeks myself. Does anyone know if IT has been effective for ADHD people with a Candida problem? That I do not know. What are the current beliefs on how much it would take to cause argyria? How much of what? With colloidal silver you should not get it no matter how much you drink. With EIS you would drown first. If you are taking silver compounds such as silver nitrate, that has been researched in the literature, and it is actually quite a bit when compared with the small amount of silver in properly made EIS. Is the person who drank a gallon a day still on the list and healthy, or am I remembering wrong? I came close to a gallon a day. Fit as a fiddle. Marshall Thanks!Karen
CSLooking Back on the List
HI MIKE and fellow listers!! Mainly a lurker, but I've been here long enough to have gained the info that saved my dear wife's life. Thanks to all. al
Re: CSbasic dumb question
Do you have any references on silver hydroxide. I have no color information, and from what I have read, it appears that silver hydroxide can only exist when dissolved in water, when you dry it out (or it precipitates), it becomes silver oxide, which is tan or brown. Unfortunately there is very very little information I can find on silver hydroxide, and what I do find is often contradicted by other information elsewhere. Marshall Ode Coyote wrote: Isn't silver hydroxide white? Ode Conclusions ~~~ Silver ions released from the anode quickly reached the nearby cathode. Silver hydroxide formed in the Nernst Diffusion layer next to the cathode: Ag(+) + OH(-) -- AgOH Some of the particles stuck to the cathode and formed a visible black layer. Pressure during rubbing decomposed the hydroxide to silver metal. H2O2 dissolved the hydroxide and silver metal back to ions. The solubility of silver hydroxide is less than 0.655ppm and probably can be taken as zero. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSBody pH
Question, my husband has gout do you think drinking this tea would help he does drink lemon water to balance the ph but we have not checked his ph levels simply because I have not gotten the ph test strips? -- Original message from Ed Kasper edkas...@pacbell.net: -- According to The Calcium Factor by Robert Barefoot Coral Calcium plus Kombucha Tea balances the body's pH. I sell a lot of kombucha which is a very simply and cheap tea (pro-biotic) to make and enjoy at home. If you ask around you may find one at your neighbors and may get started for free. Just adding sugar and tea is all that's really needed. I put pictures up on my web site. http://www.happyherbalist.com/pictures.htm Kombucha is acidic, usually around 3.0. Like lemons. It is an alkaline forming food once it becomes part of the body's synergy. Some people make kombucha extract using alcohol - which kills the probiotics kombucha but leaves the acids (acetic and gluconic mostly) which they theorize is the catalyst for health. Now IMO, one could substitute CS for the alcohol. As both will kill the flora friendly kombucha, but not the acids and have a wonderful combination. Some people do this and monitor their pH via urine strips. Kombucha tea (alone without the CS) does begin to noticeable balance the pH within 30-60 days. many folks do both but at different times. live free and healthy, Ed Kasper LAc. Licensed Acupuncturist Herbalist member of the CS list since ... maybe 1999. seems I remember stuff about Y2K bug here. Acupuncture is a jab well done www.HappyHerbalist.com Santa Cruz, CA. -Original Message- From: SJY [mailto:youngst...@konnections.net] Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 8:49 PM To: Silver List Subject: CSBody pH I have been reading some things that suggest as we age, our systems tend to become more acidic, and this in turn makes our systems more vulnerable to disease (e.g. cancer) and eventually death. Some advocate ingesting foods or other organic or inorganic compounds to shift one's pH to be slightly alkaline. Has anyone had any experience alkalizing their bodies? For example, is anyone having good results with a product called Alkaline Body Balance, or others like it, to mitigate cancer or other medical problems? To keep it CS oriented, I would assume there would be no harm in taking products to increase body alkalinity (e.g. potassium or cesium salts) along with doses of Colloidal and Ionic Silver. Comments? --Steve Y. (circa 2000 on the list) -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CSCS debate
Ode Coyote wrote: The idea that ionic silver can cause argyria comes from slurring distinctions between our definition of ionic with 'all' definitions of ionic...substituting 'intent of meaning' within OUR context of conversation with technicalities from another. Unfortunately the context of OUR conversation is in contradiction with that of the rest of the chemical world. If one is speaking of ionic silver with respect to EIS, then they are discussing silver hydroxide of less than 20 ppm, mixed with a colloidal component that is I believe is an argyria preventative. Silver hydroxide is an ionic silver, and we are correct in calling it such. However so is any silver compound dissolved in water, and that is the gotcha. When a research indicates that ion forming silver salts CAN cause argyria, he is correct. EIS it probably one of the very few exceptions to this. Silver Citrate etc is technically ionic when dissolved in water and can be made at thousands of PPM, but that's not what we're talking about when dealing with 'only' water and silver that fairly reliably turn to 'sludge' you wouldn't 'use' at more or less 50-100 PPM and it's no longer wholley ionic within our context of meaning. If you do use very high PPM sludge for a long time, there IS a risk of agyria [Stan Jones]...but no one here does that. I believe that Stan Jones was taking silver compounds, such as silver chloride and silver fluoride from the fluoridation and chlorination of the water. Also depending on where the water came from (IE a lake or river especially), then a significant amount of silver nitrate could have been in there as well. It definitely was NOT properly made EIS. When using water with chlorine, flourine, nitrates and so forth in them, then you will end up with 100% silver compounds, and asolutely NO colloidal portion until all the reactive impurites are consumed by reacting with silver ions. Thus you can not only end up with a silver ionic content much greater than the 20 or so ppm that is possible with properly made EIS, but absolutely no colloidal portion to act as a prophylatic against argyria. It's a Bait and Switch use of language. I am not sure it is so much a bait and switch as it is that we have formed our own definitions of things in this group which in some cases run counter to the rest of the world (IE chemists and researchers). I still prefer to use EIS, and the ionic and colloidal portions of EIS for conciseness. If someone says ionic silver alone, it is not clear if they mean the ionic portion of EIS, or a silver compound dissolved in water. Although here we would likely assume the former, a chemist would assume the latter. If we want to correct misconceptions given to the public by researches or colloidal silver bashers, we have to understand the terms that chemists use. If we attack the researcher for using the correct term, because it conflicts with our own list useage of that term, then it makes us look like we don't know what we are talking about and certainly does not give us credibility in any discussions. Marshall Ode At 02:16 PM 3/25/2005 -0500, you wrote: Terry Chamberlin wrote: All this discussion of what happens when ionic/colloidal silver enters the body, what is happening in the stomach and then in the blood, how such-and-such cannot be happening or in fact must be happening reminds me of the solid, logical scientific proof that the bumblebee CANNOT fly. To read Frank's scientific, logical proof that ionic silver is not worth taking is laughable, even pathetic, in the face of its obvious benefit against everything from colds to MS. I agree that ionic silver works. Even Frank's responses here on this list have been disappointing. On his site he warns that ionic silver can cause argyria (a claim I have seen absolutely NO substantiation for whatsoever - cite to me ONE case, Frank), then abmits that it would take an amount none of the standard CS-brewers are even capable of brewing. Check the archives, several reported cases of argyria caused from WaterOz, and Rosemary Jacobs got it from silver nitrate. There are a number of documented cases from silver chloride. All are ionic silver, WaterOz is silver citrate which is certainly ionic silver when dissolved. There are no cases of argyria from properly made EIS, which contains silver hydroxide/oxide and colloidal silver particles. Why does he then mention it? I am forced to conclude that he makes that point for the fear affect it has on those readers who don't notice his inconsistency, to scare them into buying his product. He mentions it because it is true. Argyria can be gotten from silver compounds that dissolve in water and form silver ions. I cannot I believe argyria can be gotten from EIS due to two factors, the maximum ionic content of about 20 ppm, and the propholatic effect of the colloid portion. He might as well,
Re: CSWarning for LV CS
Hmmm... Sounds kinky... That aside, it sound exactly like antioxdant action. I didn't realize CS was an antioxidant. BTW, DMSO does the same thing. Chuck Everything in the universe is packaging, big toys, or meat! On 3/28/2005 9:00:17 AM, silver-list@eskimo.com wrote: I have observed the following and would like all to hear from you all your different perspectives : Why is it when I hit any part of my body, not drawing blood, that by using C.S. thereon by applying a soaked pad of it - there is practically no bruising or inflammation - this interests me - thanks Sandee The one who accomplished it is the one who failed to realize that he could not do it. -- The Silver Lis -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSWarning for LV CS
Ode Coyote wrote: Doses of ground silver dust where administered to dogs via inhalation. Elimination was 94% in 48 hours in the feces and urine. [Morrow 1967 or thereabouts] I really have a hard time figuring out how that is possible (I am saying I don't see how it happens, not that the research is wrong). I would think that silver particles would not penetrate the lung tissue, or be able to be extracted from the blood stream by the liver or kidneys unless they were VERY small, that is like the particles in our colloids. But typically grinding produces particles which are huge by comparison. Do you have any more information on this research? The size of the original particles, and when eliminated, what form were they in, still particles (and if so what size), or some compound of silver? Marshall Tell ya something? Be not afraid. Ode At 07:52 PM 3/25/2005 -0700, you wrote: What surface? sol WARNING: DO NOT USE THE NEBULIZER TO ADMINISTER LOW QUALITY - LOW BIO-AVAILABILITY COLLOIDAL SILVER! REASON: If the particle size is too large to 'penetrate' into the tissues, whatever is NOT absorbed remains on the surface, eventually causing build-ups and accumulation. Use the Nebulizer ONLY to administer a very highly bio-available CS - 80% and up! Remember, most LVDC CS is only 10-30% bio-available! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.2 - Release Date: 3/25/2005 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005
Re: CS Fibromyalgia
My husband has Fibromyalgia. Are you familiar with this and if so have you heard of anybody's experiences using ionic and/or colloidal ? Or do you have any suggestions. A third to half of FM patients have measurably low growth hormone HGH release and respond to growth hormone releasers (or injections). I've had some good responders myself, using SomaLife gHP. HGH increase allows the body to heal faster than the damage occurs for a net gain. Here's a page containing the science: http://members.shaw.ca/patriciagilbert/ Many clients with FM respond to various methods that increase energy (ATP) production. Interesting that the long list of autoimmunes as well as mitochondrial disorders are marked by low energy production, including FM. This direction looks promising but it's not mainstream/alternative yet; the non-drug products that can induce more ATP production are mainly so new. Like Nenah says, ozone is one thing that works; it increases ATP production AND oxygenation, turning up the furnace so to speak. Prosoteine also increases actual ATP energy production as opposed to recycling ATP. Good idea to increase recycling efficiency as well as creating ATP by attending to the components of the Krebs cycle. LifeWave patches are non-supplemental energy tools that get the body into fat burning mode, an aerobic function that by definition also increases ATP production. Because 30% to 40% energy increase occurs in about 10 minutes it would be a good test of the ATP connection. This technology will resonate with people who are into healing energies but some folks might reserve judgement until they see comments from the professional athletes and olympic contenders who are using them. My father is using them for an autoimmune / mitochondrial disorder. His page: http://lifewave.com/widewest People with FM have responded to something as simple as Body Balance, which supplies missing micronutrients that are not available from land foods, and also supplies lots of phytosterols and aloe vera. We're not sure exactly which of these ingredients alone or in combination do the job, but a balanced product like this one will address deficiencies pretty well, without relying on digestion. Body Balance is 90% bioavailable without digestion; it starts to absorb as soon as it hits the mouth. A few of my clients reported increased energy in just a couple of days. Here's a free trial quart, value $35, you never know. My son's page: http://lifeforcefamily.com/ PIN 20480328 I expect that the liver flushes and other detox steps are taken care of? Toxins present a major physical energy burden and cell function impairment, and most of our efforts involve increasing energy production. The glutathione link to the low energy component of FM and CFS indicates that the ATP link is important; not only is glutathione an antioxidant and detoxifier, it is a major part of the Krebs energy cycle. For that all one needs is cold-processed whey and selenium. regards, Duncan Crow (copyright waived) http://profiles.yahoo.com/duncancrow/ ---live and help live... --- -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSLooking Back on the List
Now THAT is inspiring!! Thank you for sharing this with us. Sincerely..Ernie -Original Message- From: Al Riley [mailto:a...@domsys.com] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 10:26 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSLooking Back on the List HI MIKE and fellow listers!! Mainly a lurker, but I've been here long enough to have gained the info that saved my dear wife's life. Thanks to all. al
Re: CSSilver-Colloids responds
Ode Coyote wrote: Tests were done by Frank with an ion selective probe. He found no ions of silver. If this test is correct, then there are only 5 possibilities I can think of: 1. No silver chloride makes it into the blood stream. 2. The silver chloride gets reduced to silver colloid the blood stream 3. The silver chloride gets changed to an insolable silver compound. 4. The silver binds with protein. 5. The silver ends up chelated. 1 cannot be true since we know that taking large amounts of silver chloride can cause argyria, so it has to make it to the blood stream. 2. This is quite possibly true. 3. Silver chloride becomes silver sulfide, which is totally insoluable. This is also a possibility, but if so then the ionic portion of EIS would not be effective, and we seem to have ample evidence that it is. It is quite likely some silver chloride gets reduced to silver colloid and some becomes silver sulfide. 4 5. I am not well enough versed to go any further on these. With a selective ion meter detect silver binded to a protein, or chelated silver. I don't think so, but am not sure. I think the chelation idea might be worth exploring. I wonder if taking some EIS, and adding a pinch of salt to form silver chloride, then adding some EDTA to it will cause the white precipitate to disappear. That is an experiment well worth doing. I will see if I can find some EDTA at a health food store. Marshall If he also tested for silver as a metallic particle or the presence of silver in any other form, I don't know and he didn't say. That in itself is a bit of a strange ommission. Ode 5. what tests were done to detect silver in the blood? That is a good question. Anyone know where these tests were run? Were they run by Frank or Steve? Marshall Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005
RE: CSWarning for LV CS
Would any Silver Build up in Lungs be visible on E Rays Bob Ode Coyote wrote: Doses of ground silver dust where administered to dogs via inhalation. Elimination was 94% in 48 hours in the feces and urine. [Morrow 1967 or thereabouts] I really have a hard time figuring out how that is possible (I am saying I don't see how it happens, not that the research is wrong). I would think that silver particles would not penetrate the lung tissue, or be able to be extracted from the blood stream by the liver or kidneys unless they were VERY small, that is like the particles in our colloids. But typically grinding produces particles which are huge by comparison. Do you have any more information on this research? The size of the original particles, and when eliminated, what form were they in, still particles (and if so what size), or some compound of silver? Marshall Tell ya something? Be not afraid. Ode At 07:52 PM 3/25/2005 -0700, you wrote: What surface? sol WARNING: DO NOT USE THE NEBULIZER TO ADMINISTER LOW QUALITY - LOW BIO-AVAILABILITY COLLOIDAL SILVER! REASON: If the particle size is too large to 'penetrate' into the tissues, whatever is NOT absorbed remains on the surface, eventually causing build-ups and accumulation. Use the Nebulizer ONLY to administer a very highly bio-available CS - 80% and up! Remember, most LVDC CS is only 10-30% bio-available! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.2 - Release Date: 3/25/2005 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
The link you provide on that page of the research done by Natural Immunogenics is interesting. At first I though, ah ha, we got some good data now. But unfortunately they have a very big problem with the protocol that completely invalidates their conculsion. The medium they used had 2% agar in it, which means they were working with a gel. As I have reported here before from experiments I had UT run, colloidal silver is almost totally ineffective when in a gel or other solid or semisolid medium where it has no modility. Ionic silver will still have some mobility though, so it is not surprising that it will kill, and the colloidal portion will not. I would like to see this experiment run again in a broth, that better represents the blood plasma, instead of a gel which is more representative of ones stool where we do not normally want it to kill. On that page you state: Please see the test results here. This should resolve the issue. It seems clear the ionic portion is more effective at killing pathogens. Unfotunately it shows that colloidal silver is ineffective an a gel, not that one is better at killing pathogens in a broth simulating the blood than the other. This is not news at all, I first reported this over 5 years ago. What I really find disturbing is that this test was run end of last year according to their date, 5 years after anyone who had researched it already knew that colloid was ineffective in agar, so they already knew what the result would be before doing the experiment. If they really want to give good information they should rerun the tests in a broth. Marshall Trem wrote: I get many calls from prospective customers mentioning that they have been to Frank's site and wonder what the facts are. So, yesterday I placed this page on our site to answer their questions by referring them to some information not tainted by my opinion. http://www.silvergen.com/ionic_versus_colloidal_silver.htm Trem - Original Message - From: Terry Chamberlin tcj...@yahoo.ca To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 9:28 AM Subject: CSCS debate All this discussion of what happens when ionic/colloidal silver enters the body, what is happening in the stomach and then in the blood, how such-and-such cannot be happening or in fact must be happening reminds me of the solid, logical scientific proof that the bumblebee CANNOT fly. To read Frank's scientific, logical proof that ionic silver is not worth taking is laughable, even pathetic, in the face of its obvious benefit against everything from colds to MS. Even Frank's responses here on this list have been disappointing. On his site he warns that ionic silver can cause argyria (a claim I have seen absolutely NO substantiation for whatsoever - cite to me ONE case, Frank), then abmits that it would take an amount none of the standard CS-brewers are even capable of brewing. Why does he then mention it? I am forced to conclude that he makes that point for the fear affect it has on those readers who don't notice his inconsistency, to scare them into buying his product. He might as well, as we regularly see the medical establishment do, report the possibility of Vitamin A overdose to scare you into buying his special kind of Vit A (without mentioning how most Vit A overdoses are from synthetic Vit A). In fact, his scare tactics to persuade you to buy his product and avoid all others sound remarkably similar to the tactics used by the medical establishment. (Eerie music, sculking men in black overcoats, Is Frank an undercover agent for the Medical Mafia?) Nope, I sincerely doubt it. But using the same logically-dishonest, misdirecting, inuendo-laden approach as those who ARE agents for the bad guys does not create confidence in him or his product. If 10% of what Frank declares about the safety of ionic silver was true, there would be 500 cases per year of argyria, and the FDA would have made the brewing and/or drinking of anything with silver in it a felony. The worst part is that Frank's pseudo-scientific, unprovable, unsubstantiated claims make good propaganda for silver opponents to use, howeverever unrealistic they actually are. Frank, clue in to the disservice you are doing to the silver community. Selling your product is not the highest priority in life. Community and caring about others is. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
Jim Wright (Lists) wrote: Trem, Great article with good, informative links. I had already checked out the Natural Immunogenics site due to the recent discussion of the Sovereign Silver, but am glad to see that you referenced it and it's study again for others. I think that paper is very misleading. The did not test the effectiveness of colloid vs ionic against pathogens, but instead tested the colloid against ionic in a solid medium. It is already known that a colloid has virtually no effectiveness when in a solid where it is totally immobile. They have nothing more than confirmed my research I did last century and reported here long ago that colloids are ineffective in agar gel, then pretended that it is a test of effectiveness against pathogens. I would very much like to see them do the test correctly with a broth that simulates the blood plasma. The results may be the same, but I am betting that they would not be. I think they would find both the ionic and colloidal portions at least somewhat effective in that test. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSilver-Colloids responds
Mike Monett wrote: Re: CSSilver-Colloids responds From: Ode Coyote Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 05:32:15 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m78903.html Mike Monett wrote: 5. what tests were done to detect silver in the blood? That is a good question. Anyone know where these tests were run? Were they run by Frank or Steve? Marshall Tests were done by Frank with an ion selective probe. He found no ions of silver. If he also tested for silver as a metallic particle or the presence of silver in any other form, I don't know and he didn't say. That in itself is a bit of a strange ommission. Ode For those unfamiliar with ISE's, here is an excellent introduction A guide to ion selective measurement http://www.tecservice.com.ar/Documentos/folletos/Gumedicislectivo.pdf Trem posted a brief review of Ivan's comments on Roger Altman's study on what happens to colloidal silver after it enters the bloodstream: Here's what Ivan had to say on the subject some time ago. Well, I was bound to comment on the ionic vs elemental colloid thread eventually... Firstly the idea that silver ions precipitate out in the alimentary tract, and never make it to the blood stream, is pure speculation. This theory is most eloquently proposed by Purest Colloids who market a product of high elemental colloid percentage. However the theory, I believe, is pretty much debunked by an article which is (ironically) found on the Purest Colloids sister web site: http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/AltmanStudy.PDF This study was written by Roger Altman (who used to grace this list with his not inconsiderable presence) and details the elimination vs ingestion of what would be a high ionic percentage CS. He found that pretty much what is ingested is what comes out, and that a high percentage comes out in the urine. Now these ions did not get into the urine by precipitating out and not getting into the blood stream, obviously the blood stream is exactly where they ended up. The fact that a high percentage of ingested ions emerged in the urine also suggests that little is bound in the tissues (at least in this case) which further suggests that in order to develop argyria, a large amount of silver must be consumed, and/or specific (and unusual?) circumstances are present, such as deficiencies in vitamin E and/or selenium (or perhaps overdose of selenium, as suggested by some research). [...] http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m71527.html Many people use sublingual absorption, then spit the cs out. I find this to be an extremely effective way of getting cs into the bloodstream. Since it is not swallowed, it cannot enter the alimentary tract and be eliminated. It has to exit via the urine. So if Frank coudn't find the ions, it may be a measurement or instrumentation problem. They are definitely present in the blood. How on earth do you reach that conclusion. I have already outlined how ionic silver most likely works when ingested, silver hydroxide - silver chloride - (maybe ammonial silver complexes) - silver particles. That study you reference gives results for silver elimination, it does not differentiate if the silver that is being eliminated is ionic (a compound), or colloid. If it is a colloid as my analysis indicates it should be then I would expect that there would be no ionic in the blood, and that it would be eliminated by the kidney and would be detected by Roger's research. There is nothing inconsistant here. Other possibilities are that the silver is chelated or binds with a protein, both of which I believe would cause it to not be sensed with an ion specific probe, but would still be eliminated by the kidneys in one form or another and deteced by Roger. Marshall Regards, Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal,
Info wrote: Trem wrote: I get many calls from prospective customers mentioning that they have been to Frank's site and wonder what the facts are. So, yesterday I placed this page on our site to answer their questions by referring them to some information not tainted by my opinion. http://www.silvergen.com/ionic_versus_colloidal_silver.htm What Quinto and Trem fail to address is the fact that no medical researcher anywhere has ever been able to find any significant amount of ionic silver in human blood serum. Sometimes a beautiful theory can be destroyed by a single ugly fact. It seems that this ugly fact is most conveniently ignored. One researcher, Dr. Meade inserted a silver wire into a blood vessel and generated silver ions in vivo only to discover the half-life of a silver ion in the bloodstream was 7.8 seconds. Wow, that is some incredible information. That means that the ion must be forming a particle of silver (or being chelated) almost immediately after entering the blood stream. Thanks for the confirmation to my theory as to what happens to silver ions when they reach the blood stream. All I need to do now is test if a chelation agent will chelate silver chloride, or silver chloride complexes to narrow it down to one of these choices. Marshall Most EIS has some silver particles which will survive and provide benefit. As little as 0.1 ppm of silver particles will produce remarkable results against pathogens in the body. It is all about particle surface area. In his booklet Silver Colloids, Professor Ronald Gibbs wrote The size of the particles in the colloidal silver suspensions we use for health purposes is very important. Particle size controls the surface area and therefore the effectiveness of the colloidal silver suspension. This is why Quinto tells his customers to drink an entire 8 oz bottle per day for serious infections when a two teaspoons of a colloid with a high particle surface area will have the same effect. Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSppm meters
Info wrote: Mike Monett wrote: According to Ivan Anderson, Mesosilver is made of oxides. This makes sense, since your tan color is similar to diluted silver hydroxide. Elemental silver is gray or black in solution. You can prove this by adding pickling salt to 36uS cs to make silver chloride. The dispersion is white, but it turns dark gray after exposure to light. And what size particles are creating this color and in what silver concentration? Mesosilver is the wrong color to be silver particles. These words of wisdom are from scientists who are using conductivity meters to determine silver content, cannot measure particle size, etc... You have got to be kidding. The color of Mesosilver has nothing what so ever to do with the color of material the particle is made of as you suggest. Mesosilver absorbs visible light at a wavelength of 400 nm. The apparent color is the complement of the absorption wavelength. The absorption wavelength, thus the apparent color could be made to be any color of the visible spectrum by slightly altering the ionic species of the dispersant. Such a minor alteration of the ionic species would alter the zeta potential and the thus the dispersion properties and in doing so would change the apparent color but not change the composition of the particles at all. When the water is evaporated from Mesosilver what remains is a thin film of metallic silver, not silver oxide. This rather easy experiment requires only that one be able to recognize metallic silver when one sees it. Fill a 250 mL beaker half way with Mesosilver, cover to keep dust out, let sit until the water evaporates. As far as e-coli, the results of a properly designed challenge test put the lie to Quinto's tests. When an ionic product is tested using the same challenge protocol, the results are barely indistinguishable. Here is a link to a challenge test that include Mesosilver at 20.0 ppm and ASAP22 that was measured to be 22.3 ppm (a silver concentration 11.5% higher than the Mesosilver). http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/EMSL/Ecoli2.pdf I see the experiment was run with agar. Since mesosilver was effective, I am assuming that the test temperature of 35 degrees was sufficient to keep the agar liquid during the test. Is that correct? ASAP 22 is far superior at killing pathogens compared to Sovereign Silver 10 ppm because is has more than twice the silver concentration. The test clearly indicates that the ASAP 22 produced virtually the same results as Mesosilver. Yet Quinto would have us believe from his tests that his 10 ppm product works and Mesosilver does nothing. Utter nonsense! I believe the difference may be that you did your test in a broth (liquified agar due to temperature), and he did his in a gel. If so the results of both are quite predictable. Do you know if I am correct on this? Marshall The Quinto tests lack the quality required for publication, their usefulness being limited to presentation to lay people who can easily be fooled. This is the same bogus science that brought us his TEM images of ionic silver. Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
Marshall, Since there is now some doubt in my mind regarding your idea I have removed the page from our site. Since I'm only an amateur at culture work (used to culture mushroom strains) I fail to see why the test isn't valid. It seems he is trying to show that when Staph is mixed with dilute hydrochloric acid and further mixed with dilute silver of colloidal and ionic content that one set of cultures had a better kill rate. I wasn't aware the test involved growing onto the plate. I thought the plates were used only because they were a sterile medium that would not inhibit growth and would not influence the kill rate. What am I missing here? Trem - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 8:48 AM Subject: Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal The link you provide on that page of the research done by Natural Immunogenics is interesting. At first I though, ah ha, we got some good data now. But unfortunately they have a very big problem with the protocol that completely invalidates their conculsion. The medium they used had 2% agar in it, which means they were working with a gel. As I have reported here before from experiments I had UT run, colloidal silver is almost totally ineffective when in a gel or other solid or semisolid medium where it has no modility. Ionic silver will still have some mobility though, so it is not surprising that it will kill, and the colloidal portion will not. I would like to see this experiment run again in a broth, that better represents the blood plasma, instead of a gel which is more representative of ones stool where we do not normally want it to kill. On that page you state: Please see the test results here. This should resolve the issue. It seems clear the ionic portion is more effective at killing pathogens. Unfotunately it shows that colloidal silver is ineffective an a gel, not that one is better at killing pathogens in a broth simulating the blood than the other. This is not news at all, I first reported this over 5 years ago. What I really find disturbing is that this test was run end of last year according to their date, 5 years after anyone who had researched it already knew that colloid was ineffective in agar, so they already knew what the result would be before doing the experiment. If they really want to give good information they should rerun the tests in a broth. Marshall Trem wrote: I get many calls from prospective customers mentioning that they have been to Frank's site and wonder what the facts are. So, yesterday I placed this page on our site to answer their questions by referring them to some information not tainted by my opinion. http://www.silvergen.com/ionic_versus_colloidal_silver.htm Trem - Original Message - From: Terry Chamberlin tcj...@yahoo.ca To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 9:28 AM Subject: CSCS debate All this discussion of what happens when ionic/colloidal silver enters the body, what is happening in the stomach and then in the blood, how such-and-such cannot be happening or in fact must be happening reminds me of the solid, logical scientific proof that the bumblebee CANNOT fly. To read Frank's scientific, logical proof that ionic silver is not worth taking is laughable, even pathetic, in the face of its obvious benefit against everything from colds to MS. Even Frank's responses here on this list have been disappointing. On his site he warns that ionic silver can cause argyria (a claim I have seen absolutely NO substantiation for whatsoever - cite to me ONE case, Frank), then abmits that it would take an amount none of the standard CS-brewers are even capable of brewing. Why does he then mention it? I am forced to conclude that he makes that point for the fear affect it has on those readers who don't notice his inconsistency, to scare them into buying his product. He might as well, as we regularly see the medical establishment do, report the possibility of Vitamin A overdose to scare you into buying his special kind of Vit A (without mentioning how most Vit A overdoses are from synthetic Vit A). In fact, his scare tactics to persuade you to buy his product and avoid all others sound remarkably similar to the tactics used by the medical establishment. (Eerie music, sculking men in black overcoats, Is Frank an undercover agent for the Medical Mafia?) Nope, I sincerely doubt it. But using the same logically-dishonest, misdirecting, inuendo-laden approach as those who ARE agents for the bad guys does not create confidence in him or his product. If 10% of what Frank declares about the safety of ionic silver was true, there would be 500 cases per year of argyria, and the FDA would have made the brewing and/or drinking of anything with silver in it a felony. The worst part is that Frank's pseudo-scientific, unprovable,
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal,
M. G. Devour wrote: Greetings Frank, You write: What Quinto and Trem fail to address is the fact that no medical researcher anywhere has ever been able to find any significant amount of ionic silver in human blood serum. Sometimes a beautiful theory can be destroyed by a single ugly fact. It seems that this ugly fact is most conveniently ignored. Which *BEGS* that we ask the *rest* of the question: Does ingesting an ionic silver preparation produce any *OTHER* form of silver compound, complex, or particulate in the bloodstream? Any form at all? I believe there are 3 possibilities, silver particles, which we know can happen, it is chelated, and it binds with proteins. I believe ALL of these will make it so that an ion probe will not detect it, since none will be in ionic form. We don't really care if there is any significant amount of ionic silver in human blood serum... We all know that silver ions do not last long in the bloodstream. Aparently about 7.5 second half life. What we care about is if there is *ANY* form of silver that is formed in the bloodstream after ingesting a predominantly ionic preparation? Absolutely. The sparingly soluble silver chloride formed in the stomach is not a barrier to the absorption of the silver, but rather a barrier to the rapid absorption of the silver. One that can be overcome somewhat by mixing with Gatorade, and probably adding H2O2. Do you have access to any studies that would answer that question? If so, would you share them? If not, then please don't insist that the lack of *IONIC* silver in blood plasma is sufficient to prove that ingesting a predominantly ionic preparation will not produce effective levels of silver in the bloodstream. I agree wholeheartedly. We KNOW that ionic silver (in the form of silver compounds) can be absorbed into the blood stream since they are implicated in argyria. So the question is NOT if they get absorbed, but what happens to them after absorption. Marshall Thank you, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: Questions
Yvonne, I use a mixture of 1 oz CS (my homemade approx 10-20 ppm), 1 tsp pure msm crystals, and 3 drops of 99% pure DMSO mixed in a 1oz glass dropper bottle (glass dropper, too) for ear infections. As you know, it is always important to make sure that there is no perforation/rupture of the eardrum befure putting anything in the ears. Before droppering it into ears, I set the bottle in a custard cup of hot water for a few minutes to bring it up to about body temperature. I use a dropperful in each ear, then hold the ears straight up and massage the base of the ear briefly so the fluid gets wel into the ear canal, then release and let the animal shake out his ears. 1 to 3 times a day. Feedback from others who have used this recipe for ear drops says it is very effective, which is my experience with it. Us humans use the same recipe as nose drops, and I also use it for nebulizing (pets and people). HTH, sol Yvonne wrote: I'm trying the CS now on her ears. She is a Cocker Spaniel and they are an ongoing problem. I'm taking the CS myself for arthritis and it seems to be helping. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSppm meters
I think the debate is good. For instance I am going to check if EDTA will cause silver chloride in solution to be chelated. I would never have thought of this without the debate. I think it is very important if we can figure out how all this works (since we are far past the point of knowing that it DOES work). The Gatorade and H2O2 were found by experimenting, not theory. But theory shows why they do what they do, and with good theory other improvement may become obvious to us for other enhancements. Marshall M. G. Devour wrote: Frank writes: ASAP 22 is far superior at killing pathogens compared to Sovereign Silver 10 ppm because is has more than twice the silver concentration. The test clearly indicates that the ASAP 22 produced virtually the same results as Mesosilver. Yet Quinto would have us believe from his tests that his 10 ppm product works and Mesosilver does nothing. Utter nonsense! Yep, we have here not one, but *two* vendors trying to insist that the other's product is ineffective. Both have some good arguments on their side. Both are saying some unsupportable or manipulative things in order to persuade us to favor their product. That's marketing folks! In the absence of any new evidence that: -- Home-made preparations with both ionic and particulate fractions are somehow ineffective... -- That purely ionic CS is incapable of creating a blood-born component that is somehow effective... -- That only high particle fraction preparations will work... -- That high particle fraction preparations will *not* work... ... I'm afraid that we'll be forced to leave this debate pretty soon, with no particular (pun intended) resolution one way or the other, in the interest of saving ourselves from a protracted and destructive argument that most folks will not be interested in... Not immediately, mind you, but pretty soon. The more personal it seems to be getting, the sooner we'll drop it... Thank you, Mike Devour list owner [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal,
Mike Monett wrote: Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal, From: M. G. Devour Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:51:23 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m78945.html Greetings Frank, You write: What Quinto and Trem fail to address is the fact that no medical researcher anywhere has ever been able to find any significant amount of ionic silver in human blood serum. Sometimes a beautiful theory can be destroyed by a single ugly fact. It seems that this ugly fact is most conveniently ignored. Which *BEGS* that we ask the *rest* of the question: Does ingesting an ionic silver preparation produce any *OTHER* form of silver compound, complex, or particulate in the bloodstream? Any form at all? We don't really care if there is any significant amount of ionic silver in human blood serum... We all know that silver ions do not last long in the bloodstream. This is not necessarily true, Mike. Silver chloride has a solubility of 0.89 ppm in distilled water. This means a concentration less than this results in the silver and chlorine ions going their separate ways. Silver chloride does indeed have a solubility of .89 ppm at 20 C, slightly higher at body temperature. Increasing the concentration produces a white dispersion of silver chloride as the compound comes out of solution. I am not sure what you mean by increasingly, if you exceed the solubility limit then yeh, the excess will precipitate out. The resulting compound is inert and cannot engage in biological activity, True, but how is this relevent. You were talking about silver chloride which is in solution below the solubility limit. It cannot exceed the solubility limit in the blood stream since there is no chemical way it would be formed in the blood stream unless ionic silver were given interveniously. which is similar to silver hydroxide which I have recently shown is insoluble in dw: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m78851.html You have shown no such thing, all you have shown is that you do not know the difference between soluble silver hydroxide and finely divided silver metal. If silver hydroxide were insoluble, then there would be no such thing as an ionic portion of EIS, which of course there is. Normally the solubility of a compound decreases as competing ions are introduced in the solution. For example, adding salt (NaCl) to a solution of silver chloride (AgCl) reduces the solubility since sodium competes with silver for the chlorine ion. I believe the solubility may fall to about 0.4ppm, but I do not have the links handy. That issue has already been resolved by postings of peer reviewed journal articles that give this information. The common ion factor is only effective to about .1% chloride ion content, the solubility goes back up due to the silver forming silver chloride complexes above that point. In fact at the chloride content of the blood, it is right back to around .9 ppm and increasing rapidly with increasing chloride content. However, Marshall's calculations seem to indicate the solubility of silver chloride is still very close to 0.89ppm in human blood, due to other factors. No, not my calculations, look at the curves I posted, they show it quite clearly and are from journal articles.. This means the silver ion remains free to engage in killing bacteria, viruses, and fungus when below this concentration. Ivan mentioned this point several times in the archives, but I do not have the links available at the moment. Silver ions appear to remain ions for less than a minute once they reach the blood. The big question is where do they go, do they become particles, plate out on the particles already there, get chelated, or bind with proteins. We know that at least some become particles and plate out on particles already there because that is what causes argyria when silver compounds are taken internally. The crux of the argument is it is extremely difficult to produce such a high concentration of silver ions in the bloodstream. I think it is impossible to produce any level of ions in the blood stream for more than a very brief time. They quickly take a non-ionic form, whatever that may be, which of course is why one can take EIS, and the silver chloride eventually makes it into the blood stream despite it's low solubility. If you use sublingual absorption, and assume 100% efficiency, then 1 oz of 20uS cs will dilute to 110 parts per billion in 5 litres of blood. (The calculations are in an earlier report.) This is well below the level needed to precipitate out as silver chloride. Correct. It would be extremely difficult to measure this level with conventional lab equipment. You need to know what to look for and be prepared for the interference effects of
CSChelation and silver
Marshall, What a great idea. I just finished 18 chelation sessions using EDTA in the hopes it would remove the calcium from my pipes and help lower my blood pressure by allowing them to become more resilient. It did nothing except drain my wallet. Now I'm thinking it may have been chelating the continuous amount of silver in my blood from the daily ingestion and it never got past the silver in order to start removing the calcium. Du I had a fleeting thought about that during my sessions but neglected to ask the doctor. He probably wouldn't have known the answer. Trem - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:51 AM Subject: Re: CSppm meters I think the debate is good. For instance I am going to check if EDTA will cause silver chloride in solution to be chelated. I would never have thought of this without the debate. I think it is very important if we can figure out how all this works (since we are far past the point of knowing that it DOES work). The Gatorade and H2O2 were found by experimenting, not theory. But theory shows why they do what they do, and with good theory other improvement may become obvious to us for other enhancements. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
Info wrote: Mike D. wrote: Does ingesting an ionic silver preparation produce any *OTHER* form of silver compound, complex, or particulate in the bloodstream? Any form at all? As far as we can determine silver chloride is found in the bloodstream as a result of ingesting ionic silver. Like others before us, we used an Ion Selective Electrode (ISE) to search for silver ions and found no significant silver content while the ICP/AES did find silver in the blood serum. We take this to mean that while silver in some form, most likely silver chloride, is present while silver ions are not present. Huh? I am NOT following you at all. The above paragraph seems to contradict itself. If silver chloride is in the blood stream, then it will be ionic. If you measure no ionic silver, then silver chloride cannot be in the blood stream (it should measure up to around .9 ppm max, the solubility limit). That you measure silver, but no ionic content is exactly what I would expect, since ionic silver chloride should reduce to silver particles or be chelated within seconds. Are you saying that your ion meter cannot measure down to .9 ppm of silver ions? If so then the test is useless for testing for ionic silver content in blood. To make a positive determination of the species of silver compound present in the blood would require a mass spectrometer (ICP/MS). At this time we do not have this instrument in the lab, but it is on our wish list for future acquisition. True. The presence of ionic silver in the blood serum is only significant if one is attempting to show in vitro tests of ionic silver with the claim that this is an indication of how well pathogens will be affected in vivo. If there is no ionic silver in vivo, then the in vitro test results are bogus. I agree. Herein lies my complaint against those promoting ionic silver using in vitro test results and implying that ionic silver can survive in vivo to produce similar results. But I think you are missing just what IS happening. Ionic silver does not survive in vivo as ionic silver, but becomes something else. If it becomes colloidal silver, which I believe the majority of it does, then basically it becomes the same as what the meso product is, it simply takes a different route to get there. The next question is size, and I think that is why there seems to be two highly effective methods of administrating. Either a product that is predominately small particles such as the Meso product, or a product that is predominately ionic with the 5 to 20% colloidal portion very small particles (and why we have two camps belittling the other's products). The lesser one is a product which is highly ionic but with larger particles. What we want to end up with is a large number of very small particles in the blood. So what happens is that the ionic part plates out on the very small particles making them slightly larger, but in the end, almost all the silver is in the form of particles. If you start with an EIS of fewer and larger particles, then those grow even larger, and we get no small particles at all, so effectiveness suffers. That explains why both the meso as well as well made crystal clear EIS are both very effective, but higher ppm solutions of colored EIS seem to be less effective. This is not to say that pathogens will not be affected by ingesting EIS. We believe that it is the particle portion of the EIS that survives in the blood serum and provides the benefit. And I believe that that not only survives, but ends up getting plated out on by the ionic portion as well. Marshall Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
Info wrote: Mike Monett wrote: This is not necessarily true, Mike. Silver chloride has a solubility of 0.89 ppm in distilled water. This means a concentration less than this results in the silver and chlorine ions going their separate ways. 0.89 in pure water, not blood serum which contains 3500 ppm of chloride. Correct, it is slightly higher with the chloride content, about .9 ppm. Dr. Maass has calculated that the solubility of AgCl in blood serum cannot exceed 1.94 x 10-4 ppm. Then he is wrong. He needs to do some more research. See his calculation here: http://www.silver-colloids.com/misc/Ionic-response.htm Calculations of common ion effect are meaningless for silver chloride, since silver forms chloride complexes above about 1000 ppm of chloride. You need to refer him to the references I have already posted and the solubility curves for silver chloride in HCl and NaCl which I have also posted to this group, so he can bring his knowledge up to the level of present knowledge and quite posting information already proven wrong here. Marshall Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
M. G. Devour wrote: Frank writes: As far as we can determine silver chloride is found in the bloodstream as a result of ingesting ionic silver. Like others before us, we used an Ion Selective Electrode (ISE) to search for silver ions and found no significant silver content while the ICP/AES did find silver in the blood serum. We take this to mean that while silver in some form, most likely silver chloride, is present while silver ions are not present. To make a positive determination of the species of silver compound present in the blood would require a mass spectrometer (ICP/MS). At this time we do not have this instrument in the lab, but it is on our wish list for future acquisition. Fair enough. Lacking a mass spec, the only thing you can say is that the silver is there. So we are left with the unanswered question of whether some mechanism exists by which silver chloride -- or whatever other as yet undetermined species might exist -- may form an effective fraction in the complex environment of the blood. YES YES YES YES! And so, the advocates of ionic silver preparations live to fight another day! grin Yes, if they would only realize it. Oh, yes. Something I was reading today reminds me that blood is but a minor part of the total liquid in our bodies. Everything that's not contained within the cardiovascular network is bathed in lymph and other fluids. Do we know anything of silver's activity therein? I believe that there is a problem with silver activity in the lymph system, but I believe that is because it is excluded from the system. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS Questions
Yvonne wrote: Hi, I've been lurking and trying to learn as much about collodial silver as possible for about the past 6 months and I've learned a tremendous amount. I plan on buying my own generator soon but right now I have two questions I hope someone can help me with. Can collodial silver be warmed in the microwave? I want to use it in my husbands and dog's ears and it would just be easier to heat it a few seconds in the microwave it it doesn't harm the silver. Good question. Silver particles are conductive, and could be affected by the microwave field. I would take some and put it in the microwave and heat it as you want, then use a laser to see if the tyndall changes from what was put in there. If it does not change I think it is probably fine, if it does change, then I would not do it. Second, I just purchased a bottle of collodial silver from my food co-op. It is made by Futurebiotics and is 10 ppm. I noticed the color is a light yellow. Since it's not clear, does this mean it is not of good quality? It either means that it is larger particles than we normally want to see, or they added food coloring. I would definitely check it with a laser to verify that it is indeed colloidal silver. Marshall Thanks for any info you can give me. Yvonne -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSilver-Colloids responds
Re: CSSilver-Colloids responds From: Marshall Dudley Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:12:37 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79030.html How on earth do you reach that conclusion. I have already outlined how ionic silver most likely works when ingested, silver hydroxide - silver chloride - (maybe ammonial silver complexes) - silver particles. Marshall, Welcome back. We missed you. Some questions for reference: 1. Has Frank responded to your analysis on 26 Jan 2005, showing the solubility of AgCl in blood is 0.9ppm? http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m77225.html 2. Please show the balanced equations for converting Ag(+) to Ag as you describe above. 3. I use sublingual absorption, which I find to be much more effective. How does this affect your analysis? 4. In http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79033.html, you state Yep, done that myself, the black powder is finely divided silver which will be black. This can be easily confirmed by applying pressure to the powder, and since silver is very mallable, the powder will be forced together forming a larger particle which will regain it's silver appearance. What are the balanced equations for converting Ag(+) to Ag in dw? 4. You state: Yep, done that myself. As I have reported before H2O2 will oxidize silver metal producing silver oxide which dissolves quite readily. What are the balanced equations? No, what appears on the cathode is silver metal being precipitated out. When current is applied to pure water the Ag+ goes toward the cathode and a hydrogen is released at the cathode and the remaining OH- goes toward the anode. At that point you have silver hydroxide in the water. As electrolysis continues then some of the OH- makes it to the anode, and some of the Ag+ makes it to the cathode. At the cathode the Ag+ gains an electron and precipitates out as very finely grained particles which will be black. At the anode the OH- will combine with a second OH-, lose two electrons to the anode, and produce H2O and O. The O being very reactive will tend to react with the silver making a tan colored silver oxide at the anode. Marshall, I think you will find it impossible to write balanced equations describing the above. But try to surprise me:) I'll leave the rest for when you have time to answer the above. Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS Questions
Mike Monett wrote: CSCS Questions From: Yvonne Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 17:51:45 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m78982.html Hi, I've been lurking and trying to learn as much about collodial silver as possible for about the past 6 months and I've learned a tremendous amount. I plan on buying my own generator soon but right now I have two questions I hope someone can help me with. Can collodial silver be warmed in the microwave? I want to use it in my husbands and dog's ears and it would just be easier to heat it a few seconds in the microwave it it doesn't harm the silver. Second, I just purchased a bottle of collodial silver from my food co-op. It is made by Futurebiotics and is 10 ppm. I noticed the color is a light yellow. Since it's not clear, does this mean it is not of good quality? Thanks for any info you can give me. Yvonne Hi Yvonne, You only need a drop or two - it would be difficult to heat that amount in the microwave without boiling it. The small amount needed quickly heats to body temperature without discomfort. You could hold the dropper in your hand for a minute or two if it's cold. I would not recommend heating the cs. The higher temperature increases the ion thermal velocities, which increases the chance they will combine and form silver hydroxide. Here's the equations: Ag(+) + OH(-) -- AgOH Huh? It is already silver hydroxide. That is what ionic silver is, with possibly some silver oxide. Silver hydroxide is insoluble and inert. Only the ions have any biological activity. If silver hydroxide were insoluble, then there would be no such thing as ionic EIS. If it were inert, then ionic EIS would not kill pathogens, and we know it does. Give me good a reference that shows that silver hydroxide is insoluable. And show me a way that silver oxide could form without the evolution of hydrogen, which does not happen when making high quality EIS with polarity reversing. The Futurebiotics cs is heavily advertised on the web, but it is a mild silver protein product. According to Frank's report, it has zero ion concentration: Ionic Concentration: 0.0 ppm http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/cpr07/cpr_07.html If you have not opened it, see if you can take it back and get a refund. MSP has little biological activity and can lead to argyria in high concentrations. It will have little effect in the 10ppm concentration. I agree with that. Marshall Does this help answer your questsions? Best Wishes, Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSBody pH
Personally when I used a Coral calcium in high doses I did not get gout. Then I switched to the huge bottle of Calcium (about 1/4 the price) which was from shellfish and I got severe gout. So I believe Coral Calcium which I can take does not flare up. I repeated this experiment (like a sadist) and regular calcium will cause a flare up for me. I don't feel the need to take any supplements at this time. I offer free ph test strips so people can test themselves. I'll out today but should have some in within the week. You and others are welcome to email me for the free samples email e...@happyherbalist.com with free samples pH strips in the subject line. No cost or obligation but we do send out product literature as well as tell you how to do the test (simple) . lemon water, apple cider vinegar (Bragg's organic) and Kombucha all work along the same lines. KT has more live stuff in it and IMO does much more. KT is a lot more work, although quite enjoyable. Really depends upon where you are in the big picture. I do not recommend taking any of the above at the same time as CS. I'd suggest they be taken hours apart. Ed Kasper LAc. Licensed Acupuncturist Herbalist Acupuncture is a jab well done www.HappyHerbalist.com Santa Cruz, CA. -Original Message- From: mborg...@att.net [mailto:mborg...@att.net] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:54 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: RE: CSBody pH Question, my husband has gout do you think drinking this tea would help he does drink lemon water to balance the ph but we have not checked his ph levels simply because I have not gotten the ph test strips?
CSIonic versus Colloidal
Marshall wrote: As far as we can determine silver chloride is found in the bloodstream as a result of ingesting ionic silver. Like others before us, we used an Ion Selective Electrode (ISE) to search for silver ions and found no significant silver content while the ICP/AES did find silver in the blood serum. We take this to mean that while silver in some form, most likely silver chloride, is present while silver ions are not present. Huh? I am NOT following you at all. The above paragraph seems to contradict itself. If silver chloride is in the blood stream, then it will be ionic. If you measure no ionic silver, then silver chloride cannot be in the blood stream We do not believe that the 0.9 ppm max solubility limit is correct. Dr. Maass calculates that the amount of ionic silver in the blood cannot exceed 1.94 x 10-4 ppm. See: http://www.silver-colloids.com/misc/Ionic-response.htm Dr. Maass points out that the 1921 empirical model that you used for your calculation was demonstrated to be flawed, has not appeared in text books, and has not be taught in chemistry courses or used ever since. Silver chloride is insoluble so it will not be ionic, it will be as molecules of silver chloride. We further believe that once formed, silver chloride remains as such until it is eliminated from the body. Are you saying that your ion meter cannot measure down to .9 ppm of silver ions? If so then the test is useless for testing for ionic silver content in blood. Many silver ISE probes have a detection limit of about 0.5 ppm. Modern silver ISE probes have a detection limit of 0.1 ppm. We have tried both with no success. But I think you are missing just what IS happening. Ionic silver does not survive in vivo as ionic silver, but becomes something else. If it becomes colloidal silver, which I believe the majority of it does, then basically it becomes the same as what the meso product is, it simply takes a different route to get there. We do not believe there is any way that silver chloride can be transformed into colloidal silver particles in the blood. It is a theory with no scientific proof to substantiate it. Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSbasic dumb question
Ode Coyote wrote: When using too much current, electrode ends close to the bottom, no stirring and lit from the bottom.. I have seen white particles at one electrode appearing to strean towards the other electrode, golden particles at the other appearing to go the other way and nothing in between. Under one electrode a white dusty looking deposit forms that fairly hard to remove. That electrode develops a white coating that can go to a tan color if the process goes long enough. [Presumably silver hydroxide and/or silver trapped on hydrogen bubbles] I believe that will be primarily silver oxide, and maybe some silver hydroxide if the ionic content got too high. The other electrode accumulates a black deposit with a black spot underneath. [Presumably silver oxides] I believe that to be finely divided silver metal. If you can rub it and it turns to silver, that should indicate it is silver metal. In between the spots will be metallic silver plateout like a mirror if you let it go for a long time. The mirror is virtually impossible to remove. While perusing chemical experiment sites etc, I have run across statements such as silver hydroxide is more soluable than silver hydroxide I have seen this as well, and even emailed them for clarification, but got no response. Many things get mis stated on websites and even in scientific papers. One reference to silver hydroxide being black begs confirmation from elsewhere. They may have 'meant' to say silver oxide. I am not sure silver hydroxide can even be in a solid form, I think it is too unstable to dry without forming silver oxide. But I still can't find any good references. Marshall Ode -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSWarning for LV CS
CS is actually an oxidizing catalyst. However when putting EIS on an injury, the ionic portion allows chromozones of injured cells to revert back to their stem cells, and reproduce as needed. This appears to lead to rapid healing, and intantaneous relief of pain, especially for burns. Marshall cking...@nycap.rr.com wrote: Hmmm... Sounds kinky... That aside, it sound exactly like antioxdant action. I didn't realize CS was an antioxidant. BTW, DMSO does the same thing. Chuck Everything in the universe is packaging, big toys, or meat! On 3/28/2005 9:00:17 AM, silver-list@eskimo.com wrote: I have observed the following and would like all to hear from you all your different perspectives : Why is it when I hit any part of my body, not drawing blood, that by using C.S. thereon by applying a soaked pad of it - there is practically no bruising or inflammation - this interests me - thanks Sandee The one who accomplished it is the one who failed to realize that he could not do it. -- The Silver Lis -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal From: Marshall Dudley Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:38:10 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79053.html Marshall, I think you are rebutting Frank's statement about solubility in blood, but I can't be sure. The text at the end is how your posts look in the archives - it is very difficult to tell who is saying what, and what you are replying to. I have not changed the formatting or line breaks. Most email or newsgoup clients prepend the quoted text with so browsers display the quoted text in italics. Is there an adjustment you could make to one of the parameters in your client so it will do this? Thanks - it will make your posts much easier to follow, and people searching the archives can gain more of the information you are trying to present. Mike Monett -- Info wrote: Mike Monett wrote: This is not necessarily true, Mike. Silver chloride has a solubility of 0.89 ppm in distilled water. This means a concentration less than this results in the silver and chlorine ions going their separate ways. 0.89 in pure water, not blood serum which contains 3500 ppm of chloride. Correct, it is slightly higher with the chloride content, about .9 ppm.  Dr. Maass has calculated that the solubility of AgCl in blood serum cannot exceed 1.94 x 10-4 ppm. Then he is wrong. He needs to do some more research.  See his calculation here: http://www.silver-colloids.com/misc/Ionic-response.htm Calculations of common ion effect are meaningless for silver chloride, since silver forms chloride complexes above about 1000 ppm of chloride. You need to refer him to the references I have already posted and the solubility curves for silver chloride in HCl and NaCl which I have also posted to this group, so he can bring his knowledge up to the level of present knowledge and quite posting information already proven wrong here. Marshall -- -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSWarning for LV CS
This may seem really weird to ask but are you experimenting by hitting yourself? Just curious, as I have noticed a strange phenomenom on myself, it is that if I crash into something hard, and am really busy, and sort of therefore pay not much attention or quickly forget I bruised myself somewhere I get a bruise, sometimes a big bruise appears and I can't remember hitting into anything at all. If OTOH, I notice immediately, and put my concentration on the spot I have hit, (so to speak, but I mean if I really have time to notice) rub the spot, and think I'm going to have a big bruise, no bruise ever forms (or ever comes to the surface to be seen). I have always wondered what the heck the mechanism for the two different outcomes of a big bump could possibly be other than a strictly mental control over the bruising process. Unless it is the rubbing of the sore spot, vs not rubbing it? sol Sandee George wrote: I have observed the following and would like all to hear from you all your different perspectives : Why is it when I hit any part of my body, not drawing blood, that by using C.S. thereon by applying a soaked pad of it - there is practically no bruising or inflammation - this interests me - thanks Sandee -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSThermal stiring
I make my CS 1 gallon at a time, question do you thing a clear 7 watt night night bulb placed near bottom on side will provide Thermal Stiring of the CS. Should I monitor the temp to make sure it does not get past a certain temp, what temp would be my hi temp limit. Bob
CS
RE: CSWarning for LV CSHi Bob: You can take a look at a summary here: http://www.silvermedicine.org/silver-lung-study.html http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/docs/2001/suppl-4/547-551takenaka/abstract.html I don't believe there is any great danger with agglomerates. Since silver ions are dissolved, and since silver ions are vastly more effective at addressing pathogens and assisting in tissue repair ( in direct contact situations ), I always recommend people use a quality, isolated, predominantly ionic silver, and of course, WITHOUT the use of H2O2. I want to briefly chime in about Mesosilver, although I have tried to avoid the debate, which I see as nearly useless. When NIST, or any other qualified PHD scientist that does not manufacture equipment or sell products, states that TEM is not the best analytical method for analysing the most minute particles in colloidal suspension, then I'll take a second look. That said, I believe that any data you can acquire through studying any substance will provide valueable information. When you do comparative analysis of various products using the exact same method, the results are always enlightening. The idea shouldn't be to try to find an analytical method that makes one's product appear in a more favorable way, the idea should be to use all analytical methods to better understand the nature of any given product. Kind Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Medwith, Robert To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com' Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 3:42 AM Subject: RE: CSWarning for LV CS Lets Explore this Further, where did this warning come from. Could any build up show up on a yearly Chest x Ray (Was esposed to Asbestosis, hence the X Ray). I have been using lowvoltage CS in Nebulizer for about 3 years. Bob -Original Message- From: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com [mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com] On Behalf Of sol Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 9:52 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSWarning for LV CS What surface? sol WARNING: DO NOT USE THE NEBULIZER TO ADMINISTER LOW QUALITY - LOW BIO-AVAILABILITY COLLOIDAL SILVER! REASON: If the particle size is too large to 'penetrate' into the tissues, whatever is NOT absorbed remains on the surface, eventually causing build-ups and accumulation. Use the Nebulizer ONLY to administer a very highly bio-available CS - 80% and up! Remember, most LVDC CS is only 10-30% bio-available! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.2 - Release Date: 3/25/2005 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
The problem is that if the nutrient medium is a gel, and if the incubation is done while it is a gel, and the silver is inside the gel, and the culture is on top of the gell, or inside it as well, then the silver particles, which have no mobility will not be able to come in contact with the bacteria and kill them. Silver ions however can still diffuse and move around some inside the gel and have a much higher level of effectiveness.. So the big question is, was this incubated with an agar gel, or was an elevated temperature used so that it was a broth during incubation. Without more information I would assume it was a gel and the results are not valid. Marshall Trem wrote: Marshall, Since there is now some doubt in my mind regarding your idea I have removed the page from our site. Since I'm only an amateur at culture work (used to culture mushroom strains) I fail to see why the test isn't valid. It seems he is trying to show that when Staph is mixed with dilute hydrochloric acid and further mixed with dilute silver of colloidal and ionic content that one set of cultures had a better kill rate. I wasn't aware the test involved growing onto the plate. I thought the plates were used only because they were a sterile medium that would not inhibit growth and would not influence the kill rate. What am I missing here? Trem - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 8:48 AM Subject: Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal The link you provide on that page of the research done by Natural Immunogenics is interesting. At first I though, ah ha, we got some good data now. But unfortunately they have a very big problem with the protocol that completely invalidates their conculsion. The medium they used had 2% agar in it, which means they were working with a gel. As I have reported here before from experiments I had UT run, colloidal silver is almost totally ineffective when in a gel or other solid or semisolid medium where it has no modility. Ionic silver will still have some mobility though, so it is not surprising that it will kill, and the colloidal portion will not. I would like to see this experiment run again in a broth, that better represents the blood plasma, instead of a gel which is more representative of ones stool where we do not normally want it to kill. On that page you state: Please see the test results here. This should resolve the issue. It seems clear the ionic portion is more effective at killing pathogens. Unfotunately it shows that colloidal silver is ineffective an a gel, not that one is better at killing pathogens in a broth simulating the blood than the other. This is not news at all, I first reported this over 5 years ago. What I really find disturbing is that this test was run end of last year according to their date, 5 years after anyone who had researched it already knew that colloid was ineffective in agar, so they already knew what the result would be before doing the experiment. If they really want to give good information they should rerun the tests in a broth. Marshall Trem wrote: I get many calls from prospective customers mentioning that they have been to Frank's site and wonder what the facts are. So, yesterday I placed this page on our site to answer their questions by referring them to some information not tainted by my opinion. http://www.silvergen.com/ionic_versus_colloidal_silver.htm Trem - Original Message - From: Terry Chamberlin tcj...@yahoo.ca To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 9:28 AM Subject: CSCS debate All this discussion of what happens when ionic/colloidal silver enters the body, what is happening in the stomach and then in the blood, how such-and-such cannot be happening or in fact must be happening reminds me of the solid, logical scientific proof that the bumblebee CANNOT fly. To read Frank's scientific, logical proof that ionic silver is not worth taking is laughable, even pathetic, in the face of its obvious benefit against everything from colds to MS. Even Frank's responses here on this list have been disappointing. On his site he warns that ionic silver can cause argyria (a claim I have seen absolutely NO substantiation for whatsoever - cite to me ONE case, Frank), then abmits that it would take an amount none of the standard CS-brewers are even capable of brewing. Why does he then mention it? I am forced to conclude that he makes that point for the fear affect it has on those readers who don't notice his inconsistency, to scare them into buying his product. He might as well, as we regularly see the medical establishment do, report the possibility of Vitamin A overdose to scare you into buying his special kind
Re: CSLooking Back on the List
Evening Mike and the List, I checked the dates on my oldest messages and found some with 1998 dates. I think these may be wrong. Several messages had late 1999 dates and the main flow seemed to pick up at the beginning of 2000. I tried to use the on line archives to verify dates. I think there is a chance that a few messages are missing. The Silver list has proven to be the best source of reliable information on many subjects, not only CS. It was my main source of great and reliable information during the treatment of my spider bite. That ordeal was a little over 3 years ago, early 2002. My primary suggestion to the list, is to use the OT list more for the OT subjects. I hesitate to reply to some messages because they are in fact OT and should be moved to that list. As always, a big thanks to Mike for doing such a great job of managing the list. One highlight over these years for me, was the startup of a MailHelp list where I offered to help anyone with mail management problems who seriously wanted to learn more about power email. I was disappointed in that I could do little to help the people who do webmail. Most of the others seemed to solve their problems, or at least made great improvements. Wayne === -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSLooking back...
I've been and moved on and come back a couple of times now.. don't post a lot but i've gained a ton of great info here and I cannot say how grateful I am for this list! Sharon On Mar 25, 2005, at 3:27 PM, M. G. Devour wrote: Hi Gang, Looking through my off-list correspondence with Cliff Hume, I realized that he's been around since at least 1998. He may be one of the original members who were here when I took over. I know many of those 113 folks have moved on in the last 7 years, but I know there's still a few of you out there! Chime in if you've been here all that time! I'd love to know who's still out there. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSBody pH
Check out some information that would allow your husband to find his metabolic type, because deposits of crystals in the joints can be due to alkalosis. If he is too alkaline further alkalinizing would not be advisable. From Prescription for Nutritional Healing Alkalosis os often the result of excessive intake of alkaline drugs such as sodium bicarbonate.it can also result from excessive vomiting, high cholesterol, endocrine imbalance, poor diet, diarrhea, and osteoarthritis. The symptoms may be manifested as a highly nervous condition...Other symptoms can include sore muscles, creaking joints, bursitis, drowsiness, protruding eyes, hypertension, hypothermia, seizures, edema, allergies, night cramps, asthma, chronic indigestion, night coughs, vomiting...prostatitis... Alkalosis may be less common than acidosis (according to another health book of mine) but it is no less serious. It can for instance, be the result of aldosteronism, an excess of aldosterone, one of the adrenal cortex hormones. My book says the signs are ...persistently low serum potassium, high normal to elevated serum sodium, neutral or alkaline urine, and blood alkalosis in the presence of unexplained hypertension I find it puzzling that I hardly ever see any mention of alkalosis, only of acidosis. It seems to me unwise, no matter that acidosis is more common, to not look at the possibility at all. sol mborg...@att.net wrote: Question, my husband has gout do you think drinking this tea would help he does drink lemon water to balance the ph but we have not checked his ph levels simply because I have not gotten the ph test strips? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSWas: Body pH, Now: Kombucha Tea
I've seen that happen with Apple Cider Vinegar with the mother in it, too. If you add some to regular cider vinegar without the mother, it will develop those nasty strings. It must be the beneficial bacteria forming new colonies, or re-agglomerating into colonies. Whatever it is it is yucky. No matter how beneficial I'm not able to drink strings of gunk. sol marmar...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/28/05 2:13:43 AM Central Standard Time, edkas...@pacbell.net writes: Yes. simply use a filter. Yah -- sigh. I did that. Used a really fine nylon filter. The liquid would be fine immediately, but upon drinking later would have strands in it. I thought perhaps there was something to be done that I didn't know about. Thanks. MA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
At some point recently (I lost track of where the question was asked) Marshall asked if the EMSL tests were conducted in broth or gel. The tests were conducted in broth. The scientists at EMSL did not believe that gel would properly represent the action of colloidal silver vs. pathogens. Excellent, Frank. Marshall asked that and so did I. That does make clear the tests show that both ionic and particulate preparations are effective bacteriostatics/bacteriocides in a fluid medium. It still says little about behavior in the body, but at least supports your main contention, that petri dish tests that allege to show that particulate silver does not work in culture are not properly done. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS TEM sample preparation
Frank writes: This is why TEM images of ionic solutions do not represent what was in the solution. And, halleluja, Marshal writes: Once again, I agree. Well, good! I'm glad you guys agree because, at one time in a former life, I wasted a whole lot of time trying to make TEM samples of what were supposed to be colloidal particles that did nothing but agglomerate into a big jumbled messes that you couldn't use for anything at all. These samples were for a project at work that had nothing at all to do with silver (which I didn't even know about at the time), but did involve using TEM (Transmission Electron Microscopy) and SEM (Scanning Electron Microscopy) to try to figure out what we had put on as a coating on some samples. Any predominantly ionic preparation is going to *form* particles as it is evaporating on the TEM substrate... which will have nothing at all to do with what you've got in the jar on the shelf, and everything to do with the conditions you prepared the sample under. Meaningless, in other words. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
Info wrote: Marshall wrote: As far as we can determine silver chloride is found in the bloodstream as a result of ingesting ionic silver. Like others before us, we used an Ion Selective Electrode (ISE) to search for silver ions and found no significant silver content while the ICP/AES did find silver in the blood serum. We take this to mean that while silver in some form, most likely silver chloride, is present while silver ions are not present. Huh? I am NOT following you at all. The above paragraph seems to contradict itself. If silver chloride is in the blood stream, then it will be ionic. If you measure no ionic silver, then silver chloride cannot be in the blood stream We do not believe that the 0.9 ppm max solubility limit is correct. Dr. Maass calculates that the amount of ionic silver in the blood cannot exceed 1.94 x 10-4 ppm. See: http://www.silver-colloids.com/misc/Ionic-response.htm Dr. Maass points out that the 1921 empirical model that you used for your calculation was demonstrated to be flawed, When and where? I have found nothing in the literature to indicate that it is flawed. How is it flawed? We do know that silver chloride becomes quite soluble when there is a large excess of chloride ions available so what is flawed about it. Science demands that when theory and experimental evidence contradict each other, that the experimental evidence trump the theory. has not appeared in text books, and has not be taught in chemistry courses or used ever since. That is not correct, the same equation shows up in Laitinen Chemical Analysis, 1975, second edition, pages 135-137 Just because they are not teaching it in chemistry courses does not mean it is not true. Is he aware of ANY experimental evidence to indicate that this study was flawed? Silver chloride is insoluble so it will not be ionic, it will be as molecules of silver chloride. We further believe that once formed, silver chloride remains as such until it is eliminated from the body. The portion that does dissolve is ionic. How can there be doubt that silver chloride makes it into the blood stream? Roger's experiments have shown that most of the silver ingested makes it to the kidneys, so it HAS to be absorbed, and the fact that argyria can be caused by ingesting silver salts if further proof. Are you saying that your ion meter cannot measure down to .9 ppm of silver ions? If so then the test is useless for testing for ionic silver content in blood. Many silver ISE probes have a detection limit of about 0.5 ppm. Modern silver ISE probes have a detection limit of 0.1 ppm. We have tried both with no success. Which I would expect since it appears that silver ions are very short lived, producing silver particles or being chelated. But I think you are missing just what IS happening. Ionic silver does not survive in vivo as ionic silver, but becomes something else. If it becomes colloidal silver, which I believe the majority of it does, then basically it becomes the same as what the meso product is, it simply takes a different route to get there. We do not believe there is any way that silver chloride can be transformed into colloidal silver particles in the blood. It is a theory with no scientific proof to substantiate it. Well we know that silver chloride can get into the blood from Richard's work, and since it can cause argyria. We know that silver ions cannot be measured in the blood. That doesn't leave much room for where the silver goes. Silver particles, insoluble silver sulfide, chelated, and binding with proteins are the only possibilities I can think of. I believe that argyia is scientific proof. No one disputes that it can occur, and it occurs when ingesting silver salts which quickly become silver chloride in the stomach. The silver atoms photoreduced in the skin grow from plating out of the salts onto the particles until they get stuck. We know that most silver salts will become silver chloride in the stomach, and certainly in the blood, at least temporarily. So what part of this do you not consider proof that it does not happen? If your statement that silver chloride cannot be transformed into silver particles is correct, then argyria is impossible. Marshall Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSIonic versus Colloidal
At some point recently (I lost track of where the question was asked) Marshall asked if the EMSL tests were conducted in broth or gel. The tests were conducted in broth. The scientists at EMSL did not believe that gel would properly represent the action of colloidal silver vs. pathogens. Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
Mike Monett wrote: Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal From: Marshall Dudley Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:38:10 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79053.html Marshall, I think you are rebutting Frank's statement about solubility in blood, but I can't be sure. Yes I am. The text at the end is how your posts look in the archives - it is very difficult to tell who is saying what, and what you are replying to. I have not changed the formatting or line breaks. Arrg, I am not sure if it is a problem with my Netsacape Communicator, or the mailing list or something. Most email or newsgoup clients prepend the quoted text with so browsers display the quoted text in italics. Is there an adjustment you could make to one of the parameters in your client so it will do this? Not that I am aware of. For instance this message has a vertical blue bar in front of your statements, and nothiing in front of mine. It appears that you have html turned on. Thanks - it will make your posts much easier to follow, and people searching the archives can gain more of the information you are trying to present. I do what I can, but this does seem to be a recurring problem. Marshall Mike Monett -- Info wrote: Mike Monett wrote: This is not necessarily true, Mike. Silver chloride has a solubility of 0.89 ppm in distilled water. This means a concentration less than this results in the silver and chlorine ions going their separate ways. 0.89 in pure water, not blood serum which contains 3500 ppm of chloride. Correct, it is slightly higher with the chloride content, about .9 ppm. Dr. Maass has calculated that the solubility of AgCl in blood serum cannot exceed 1.94 x 10-4 ppm. Then he is wrong. He needs to do some more research. See his calculation here: http://www.silver-colloids.com/misc/Ionic-response.htm Calculations of common ion effect are meaningless for silver chloride, since silver forms chloride complexes above about 1000 ppm of chloride. You need to refer him to the references I have already posted and the solubility curves for silver chloride in HCl and NaCl which I have also posted to this group, so he can bring his knowledge up to the level of present knowledge and quite posting information already proven wrong here. Marshall -- -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSThermal stiring
Don't know about LVDC, but with HVAC I found that 120 F is about as high as you want to go. Marshall Medwith, Robert wrote: I make my CS 1 gallon at a time, question do you thing a clear 7 watt night night bulb placed near bottom on sidewill provide Thermal Stiring of the CS.Should I monitor the temp to make sure it does not get past a certain temp, what temp would be my hi temp limit. Bob
Re: CSWhy no High Voltage DC ?
Wayne Fugitt wrote: Evening Marshall, I believe that the low voltage is normally in the range of 9 to 50 volts DC. HVAC is nomally in the range of 8 to 12 KV AC. Has no one used higher DC voltage? Seems Terry C. uses 100 or 110 VDC. It would be easy to use a few hundred or even a few thousand DC volts. I think the reason is that to make good EIS one needs to control the current, and keep it at around 1 mA per square inch. Typically once the ppm gets up to a few ppm, the voltages necessary to maintain this current are in the 10-20 volt range. Higher voltages may be good for starting the batch quicker, but then regulating the current with high voltages become a more difficult affair. I personally prefer using a pump and flow the water through a jug that is maintained at the final ppm of the product, and the voltage necessary for 1 mA per square inch is below 20 volts. I still have a few transformers around that deliver 5000 volts. Of course all the components would have to be selected with the proper voltage rating. Seems if one was going to do volume production, a few thousand volts DC would be ideal, as a choice if they did not want to get into the HVAC. Not really, you need current, not voltage (not counting the HVAC method where the high voltage is essential to move the ions quickly enough away from the electrodes to not form huge particles, or get sucked back in on the next half cycle). For more capacity, you increase the area of the electrodes. I have a system that produces about a gallon an hour of 20 ppm EIS using LVDC, or about 3.5 gallons an hour of 5 ppm which I described in an earlier post. This is almost exactly the same rate of production I get from my hvac system using 120 mA and 10 KV. Marshall Wayne -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
Good, then it all still makes sense. They are correct that gel would not properly represent the action of a colloid vs. a pathogen, you would likely have reproduced the results that that other company that found that colloid was ineffective because I think they used a gel. Marshall Info wrote: At some point recently (I lost track of where the question was asked) Marshall asked if the EMSL tests were conducted in broth or gel. The tests were conducted in broth. The scientists at EMSL did not believe that gel would properly represent the action of colloidal silver vs. pathogens. Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSWhy no High Voltage DC ?
CSWhy no High Voltage DC ? From: Wayne Fugitt (view other messages by this author) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:27:44 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79062.html [...] Has no one used higher DC voltage? Seems Terry C. uses 100 or 110 VDC. It would be easy to use a few hundred or even a few thousand DC volts. I still have a few transformers around that deliver 5000 volts. Of course all the components would have to be selected with the proper voltage rating. Seems if one was going to do volume production, a few thousand volts DC would be ideal, as a choice if they did not want to get into the HVAC. Wayne Hi Wayne, Duncan Crow posted a method using the 4,100 Volts pulsed DC from a microwave oven to make cs. He claims he can get 42 ppm cs. Robert (Old Bob) tried it and got poor results. He got only 26 ppm. I use 330 volts in my silversol generator to produce 45uS indicated on a PWT. I believe the silver ion concentration is higher due to the deficiency in hydroxyl ions in the anode compartment: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m78983.html I tried Duncan's method using 2,050 volts DC from a modified microwave oven power supply. The voltage proved to be far too high. The intense field vastly increased the ion velocities so they dominated, instead of the normal convection currents. You could see the ion stream actually janking material off the cathode and pulling it towards the anode. The cell current rose exponentially and soon went into runaway, just like a three nines at 27 volts. The resulting brew had a low uS reading, about the same as a 3 nines. My conclusion is it is simply not worth the effort to deal with deadly voltages and currents to produce poor quality cs. All the Best, Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSilver-Colloids responds
Mike Monett wrote: Re: CSSilver-Colloids responds From: Marshall Dudley Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:12:37 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79030.html How on earth do you reach that conclusion. I have already outlined how ionic silver most likely works when ingested, silver hydroxide - silver chloride - (maybe ammonial silver complexes) - silver particles. Marshall, Welcome back. We missed you. Some questions for reference: 1. Has Frank responded to your analysis on 26 Jan 2005, showing the solubility of AgCl in blood is 0.9ppm? http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m77225.html Only a few minutes ago, he claims that the paper is flawed, and the results do not show up in any books. I asked how they are flawed, and where there is any proof they are flawed, and gave him a book published in 1975 that has the same equation in it. 2. Please show the balanced equations for converting Ag(+) to Ag as you describe above. There are several routes to get there. But the simplest is the simple photo development process of the reduction of AgCl to silver metal. That is can be done cannot be disputed, if it were not possible than argyria and photography would not exist. But the equation is pretty simple Ag(+) Cl(-) - Ag + Cl The electron from the Cl goes to the Ag, and cancels the +, making them both elemental. 3. I use sublingual absorption, which I find to be much more effective. How does this affect your analysis? Not sure. If one has no salt in their mouth, then the silver could cross the barrier and go into the blood, becoming AgCl, at least temporarily. Solubililty would not be an issue with the large volume of blood involved under normal circumstances. But if there is any saliva in the mouth at all, most certainly AgCl will be formed in the mouth, and we would be back to the solubility limits of AgCl in water with a small amount of chloride present, probably with a solubility of less than .89 ppm due to the common ion effect. 4. In http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79033.html, you state Yep, done that myself, the black powder is finely divided silver which will be black. This can be easily confirmed by applying pressure to the powder, and since silver is very mallable, the powder will be forced together forming a larger particle which will regain it's silver appearance. What are the balanced equations for converting Ag(+) to Ag in dw? Ag(+) + (electron-) = Ag That is the Ag(+) contacts the cathode, and picks up an electron being supplied by the power supply or battery and becomes a silver atom. 4. You state: Yep, done that myself. As I have reported before H2O2 will oxidize silver metal producing silver oxide which dissolves quite readily. What are the balanced equations? H2O2 + 2Ag - 2AgO + H2O The Ag2O then becomes either 2Ag(+) + O(--) in solution when it dissociates. No, what appears on the cathode is silver metal being precipitated out. When current is applied to pure water the Ag+ goes toward the cathode and a hydrogen is released at the cathode and the remaining OH- goes toward the anode. At that point you have silver hydroxide in the water. As electrolysis continues then some of the OH- makes it to the anode, and some of the Ag+ makes it to the cathode. At the cathode the Ag+ gains an electron and precipitates out as very finely grained particles which will be black. At the anode the OH- will combine with a second OH-, lose two electrons to the anode, and produce H2O and O. The O being very reactive will tend to react with the silver making a tan colored silver oxide at the anode. Marshall, I think you will find it impossible to write balanced equations describing the above. But try to surprise me:) I'll leave the rest for when you have time to answer the above. Actually I was working on that from last friday when I accidentally hit the send button, thinking it was another reply I had just done. I am still working on that. Marshall Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS
RE: CSWarning for LV CSJason wrote: When NIST, or any other qualified PHD scientist that does not manufacture equipment or sell products, states that TEM is not the best analytical method for analysing the most minute particles in colloidal suspension, then I'll take a second look. That said, I believe that any data you can acquire through studying any substance will provide valueable information. When you do comparative analysis of various products using the exact same method, the results are always enlightening. To get the right answer you must ask the right question. If the question concerns a colloid, with no ions present, then a TEM may accurately show the particles. Sample preparation is very important and if done improperly can produce images that have little to do with what is in the colloid. If you ask a knowledgeable TEM operator about making images of ionic solutions, they will tell you that what you will see are the compounds formed when the sample is desiccated. A TEM operates under high vacuum so it is not possible to have water present in the sample. A sample prepared for TEM viewing requires that the sample be desiccated. When water is removed (evaporated) from an ionic solution, the metal cations combine with the companion anions to form a solid compound. Here is what happens when the water is evaporated from an ionic solution: Silver ions in a solution cannot exist without water, so when the water is evaporated the silver ions (cations) must combine with an available anion to form a compound. The predominant anions present in a silver colloid solution (EIS) are hydroxide and carbonate. The compounds thus formed are silver hydroxide and silver carbonate. Silver hydroxide is unstable and reduces to silver oxide and hydrogen. The silver carbonate will reduce to silver oxide and carbon dioxide. The final compound that remains is silver oxide. This process begins as a single silver ion is forced to combine with a single anion forming a single molecule of the compound. The molecule has no ionic charge and therefore no repulsive force. The lack of repulsion causes the molecules to be attracted to each other by van der Waals' force of attraction which causes them to aggregate and form small particles of the compound. The size of the particle growth is limited by the reduced mobility of the molecules as the water evaporates. What remains is particles of silver oxide whose diameter is 1 - 3 nanometers. It is these particles which predominate in TEM images made of silver colloid solutions (EIS) which have a high ionic content compared to the silver particle content. This is why TEM images of ionic solutions do not represent what was in the solution. The old saying applies What you see ain't what you got. Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal From: Marshall Dudley Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 13:08:58 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79066.html Mike Monett wrote: Marshall, I think you are rebutting Frank's statement about solubility in blood, but I can't be sure. Yes I am. Very Good! The text at the end is how your posts look in the archives - it is very difficult to tell who is saying what, and what you are replying to. I have not changed the formatting or line breaks. Arrg, I am not sure if it is a problem with my Netsacape Communicator, or the mailing list or something. It may be your client. I only read the archives so I can add the reference url at the top to make it easy for others to find the parent post. The other posts seem OK - most of the time:) Most email or newsgoup clients prepend the quoted text with so browsers display the quoted text in italics. Is there an adjustment you could make to one of the parameters in your client so it will do this? Not that I am aware of. For instance this message has a vertical blue bar in front of your statements, and nothiing in front of mine. It appears that you have html turned on. Nope. I only use plain text. Thanks - it will make your posts much easier to follow, and people searching the archives can gain more of the information you are trying to present. I do what I can, but this does seem to be a recurring problem. Marshall Thanks, Marshall. As you can see from the above, this time it worked perfectly. All the Best, Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSSilver-Colloids responds
Re: CSSilver-Colloids responds From: Marshall Dudley (view other messages by this author) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 14:05:32 http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m79071.html Mike Monett wrote: Re: CSSilver-Colloids responds From: Marshall Dudley -- Ghaacckk! You post is almost unreadable in the archives. Could you email me or something so I don't accidentally make a mistake in reading it? Thanks! Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS
Info wrote: RE: CSWarning for LV CSJason wrote: When NIST, or any other qualified PHD scientist that does not manufacture equipment or sell products, states that TEM is not the best analytical method for analysing the most minute particles in colloidal suspension, then I'll take a second look. That said, I believe that any data you can acquire through studying any substance will provide valueable information. When you do comparative analysis of various products using the exact same method, the results are always enlightening. To get the right answer you must ask the right question. If the question concerns a colloid, with no ions present, then a TEM may accurately show the particles. Sample preparation is very important and if done improperly can produce images that have little to do with what is in the colloid. If you ask a knowledgeable TEM operator about making images of ionic solutions, they will tell you that what you will see are the compounds formed when the sample is desiccated. A TEM operates under high vacuum so it is not possible to have water present in the sample. A sample prepared for TEM viewing requires that the sample be desiccated. When water is removed (evaporated) from an ionic solution, the metal cations combine with the companion anions to form a solid compound. Here is what happens when the water is evaporated from an ionic solution: Silver ions in a solution cannot exist without water, so when the water is evaporated the silver ions (cations) must combine with an available anion to form a compound. The predominant anions present in a silver colloid solution (EIS) are hydroxide and carbonate. Where does the carbon come from? Absorbed CO2? The compounds thus formed are silver hydroxide and silver carbonate. Silver hydroxide is unstable and reduces to silver oxide and hydrogen. I agree. The silver carbonate will reduce to silver oxide and carbon dioxide. Silver carbonate is a stable compound. It is available from Acros chemical with 99% purity. Why would it decompose unless exposed to light? The final compound that remains is silver oxide. This process begins as a single silver ion is forced to combine with a single anion forming a single molecule of the compound. The molecule has no ionic charge and therefore no repulsive force. The lack of repulsion causes the molecules to be attracted to each other by van der Waals' force of attraction which causes them to aggregate and form small particles of the compound. The size of the particle growth is limited by the reduced mobility of the molecules as the water evaporates. What remains is particles of silver oxide whose diameter is 1 - 3 nanometers. It is these particles which predominate in TEM images made of silver colloid solutions (EIS) which have a high ionic content compared to the silver particle content. I agree. This is why TEM images of ionic solutions do not represent what was in the solution. Once again, I agree. Mashall The old saying applies What you see ain't what you got. Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSTime for closing arguments, perhaps?
So, do I throw out my CS/IES with my generator and go on to something else? Or maybe get a jug of good Vodka to sip on and forget it all. I'm discouraged, Thom Yes, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about, which I hope the participants in the technical discussions will understand. Some past debates of this sort, though not all, have contributed a lot to our understanding of CS (or whatever you want to call it this week...). Which is why I ask people to be patient with it. Yes, some digestion and interpretation is required for the lay audience to benefit. There's no reason to fear. All that we know is not all of a sudden proven false. CS (or whatever you want to call it this week...) like we make it continues to work. Some minor differences in performance may emerge between some production processes and others. We may find a better way to make or use CS (OWYWTCITW). All it will likely amount to is an improvement or refinement to that which already works. So maybe a cup of tea is in order, Thom. And a biscuit. grin Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
Marshall wrote: Good, then it all still makes sense. They are correct that gel would not properly represent the action of a colloid vs. a pathogen, you would likely have reproduced the results that that other company that found that colloid was ineffective because I think they used a gel. Marshall are you saying that the Quinto bacteriology studies are flawed because they were conducted on a gel medium that would show favorable results for ionic silver and poor results for colloidal silver? The scientists at EMSL who designed the pathogen challenge studies concluded that the tests should be conducted in broth because the results would be flawed if conducted on gel. So, it sounds like you are in agreement with the EMSL scientists. This is good information and it confirms my earlier assertions that the Quinto test results are bogus (again). Perhaps those list members with websites that have links to the bogus Quinto data will be honest enough to remove the links. On the other hand, that may just be wishful thinking since they also desperately want to show that ionic type products work but Mesosilver does nothing, even if it takes bogus science to make such a case. Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSTime for closing arguments, perhaps?
Thom, I have to agree..It is not necessary to describe something with elaborate explanations and grandiose words( oops..even I'm guilty- grin) For those of us who want to share it is vital that we convey the message effectively so everyone can understand. We all know the KISS acronym At least I think we do??? Sometimes I think we all need a reminder time and again. Well, yes and no, Ernie! There is a big difference between writing for a non-technical audience and communication between scientists or engineers. I have read technical papers that required a whole helluva lot of work to understand, but the science or engineering was brilliant and the communication precise and exacting. I have sat in meetings where technical experts were throwing around words so thick it was all I could do to keep up, only to witness breakthroughs that produced important results. A lot of innovation happens in somebody's garage, but a whole lot more of it requires serious science and engineering, and the complex language that goes along with it. No other form of communication would work as well, even though sometimes it doesn't work at all. Admittedly, nothing much *useful* gets done until they *translate* it into words for the rest of us! grin So be patient. Ignore the worst of it. Let 'em argue it out. Wait for the executive summary and the 5 minute Power Point presentation. LOL Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
Yes, that is what I am saying IF their studies were made with agar in a gelled form. However I do not at this time have information if they used a gelled form, or if it was a broth as was yours. Without this information I cannot say for sure why they did not get good results with the colloidal only form, but if they were gelled, as I suspect they were, then definitely the results are not relevent to the question of colloidal vs ionic for killing pathogens. Marshall Info wrote: Marshall wrote: Good, then it all still makes sense. They are correct that gel would not properly represent the action of a colloid vs. a pathogen, you would likely have reproduced the results that that other company that found that colloid was ineffective because I think they used a gel. Marshall are you saying that the Quinto bacteriology studies are flawed because they were conducted on a gel medium that would show favorable results for ionic silver and poor results for colloidal silver? The scientists at EMSL who designed the pathogen challenge studies concluded that the tests should be conducted in broth because the results would be flawed if conducted on gel. So, it sounds like you are in agreement with the EMSL scientists. This is good information and it confirms my earlier assertions that the Quinto test results are bogus (again). Perhaps those list members with websites that have links to the bogus Quinto data will be honest enough to remove the links. On the other hand, that may just be wishful thinking since they also desperately want to show that ionic type products work but Mesosilver does nothing, even if it takes bogus science to make such a case. Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSkids with skin peeling
Hi Deborah, They have not been any where near pesticides for many months as we live in the far north and the snow is starting to melt. Unless it is residual from summer last year. I don't know. Thanks, G Murray deborah byron wrote: I'm sure you've already thought of this as well then, but its the time of year in my part of the world where many people are spraying herbicides for the early so called weeds--what's wrong with dandelions anyway? Honeybees love them. Anyway, just another thought especially if your kids play on sports fields. Best, Deborah -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSWhy no High Voltage DC ?
Thank you Mike, That was a good explanation. My conclusion is it is simply not worth the effort to deal with deadly voltages and currents to produce poor quality cs. It is good that some of you are willing to experiment, so the rest of us don't have to. Wayne -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSkids with skin peeling
Hi Stuff, I would like to do that just for my own peace of mind as we haul all our drinking water in. I am sure there is lots of bad stuff in it. I am not sure how one would haul enough water for bathing and washing clothes if the water is no good. I'll check into it. Thanks, G Murray Stuff wrote: Maybe you want to do an independent analysis on the town water. stuff -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CS
Marshall wrote: Silver ions in a solution cannot exist without water, so when the water is evaporated the silver ions (cations) must combine with an available anion to form a compound. The predominant anions present in a silver colloid solution (EIS) are hydroxide and carbonate. Where does the carbon come from? Absorbed CO2? Yes, from absorbed CO2. The compounds thus formed are silver hydroxide and silver carbonate. Silver hydroxide is unstable and reduces to silver oxide and hydrogen. I agree. The silver carbonate will reduce to silver oxide and carbon dioxide. Silver carbonate is a stable compound. It is available from Acros chemical with 99% purity. Why would it decompose unless exposed to light? We believe that: During desiccation the water (H2O) and silver carbonate (Ag2CO3) would first form silver oxide (Ag2O) and carbonic acid (H2CO3). The carbonic acid reduces to water (H2O) and carbon dioxide (CO2) which is draw off leaving the silver oxide (Ag2O). We will do some further checking and will confirm this later. Frank Key Colloidal Science Lab. www.colloidalsciencelab.com -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSkids with skin peeling
Yes I have heard that. Charles Sutton wrote: They are also good as boiled greens and in salads. (as long as they are not sprayed with poison) - Original Message - From: deborah byron laqueren...@cox-internet.com what's wrong with dandelions anyway? Honeybees love them.
Re: CSUpdating my address book
Whoa! I'd be real careful not to respond to this folks. I haven't seen anything like this before, but it looks phishy to me. Lynn? Do you know your machine is sending this to everybody? sigh Mike D. Hello I would like to include your contact information in an address book I am creating for myself. Please enter your particulars using the link you see below: http://www.bebo.com/fr1/12153857a808349499b186986143c16799509d20 This is a really easy tool that will help you exchange and keep your contact's information up-to-date . When you update your information the changes automatically appear in your friends' address books. Many Thanks, Lynn -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ]
Re: CSTime for closing arguments, perhaps?
Geez, you're talking about dumbing down, Mike. There should be room for all. Kinda surprised at you... Aww, Chuck! There is room for 'em. They've been going at it for almost a week now, right? grin Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSMore to consider.
More to consider. I'm not sure it's the Ag that is actually doing the work, per'se. It very well might be other less noble metals/minerals, in the presents of Ag in a fluid medium, that are giving up an electron to Ag (galvanic coupling / corrosion factor), that is inducing a potential, that is really the basic, square one, of the positive effects. You would have to check blood serum count for other metals and minerals (of less nobility, before and after administrating CS. This theory would hold true for the stories of antiquity uses of silver as well. Also, those of you that might have studied ancient Egyptian high order priest and Pharos, know of the Wands of Horus. The rods that these elite held so tightly in their hands. Not a complete parallel, but close. Of the various colloidal metals tried, silver seems to work best. (one of the highest noble metals - 3rd I believe) The old silver coin in the milk pale, kept milk from souring. The silver rich river with therapeutic results for it's bathers. Varies positive results of CS keeping mold bacteria from growing in kitchen counter top experiments with different types of food. ...Ron
CSRe[2]: CSWas: Body pH, Now: Kombucha Tea
Hi sol, Well you can stick it in a blender for a few seconds jsut prior to drinknig it. Take care, V I've seen that happen with Apple Cider Vinegar with the mother in it, too. If you add some to regular cider vinegar without the mother, it will develop those nasty strings. It must be the beneficial bacteria forming new colonies, or re-agglomerating into colonies. Whatever it is it is yucky. No matter how beneficial I'm not able to drink strings of gunk. sol -- -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CScs and eyesight
What about using cs to improve eyesight? any thought's on this. Debbie
RE: CSTime for closing arguments, perhaps?
Thanks Mike, I was gonna say..phew! :-) -Original Message- From: M. G. Devour [mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:05 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSTime for closing arguments, perhaps? Hi gang, I wonder if the Ionic vs. Colloidal debate has had enough time now to begin to reach some consensus? Could maybe Trem, Marshall and/or Frank summarize what has been agreed to, learned, proven, disproven, or marked for futher study as a result of all this voluminous verbiage? grin It seems to have been a fruitful discussion, but we need to be sensitive to the fact that newcomers are not going to be able to get very much from such detailed information. If the topic continued much longer we'd start to lose people from confusion and boredom. Again, I'm not demanding a hard and fast cut-off, but am suggesting that we may be ready for a summary? Thank you folks, Mike Devour -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSTime for closing arguments, perhaps?
In a message dated 3/28/2005 8:04:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, mdev...@eskimo.com writes: It seems to have been a fruitful discussion, but we need to be sensitive to the fact that newcomers are not going to be able to get very much from such detailed information. If the topic continued much longer we'd start to lose people from confusion and boredom. Thanks Mike, Some of us may have only an 8th grade education. It's hard to follow the wisdom and experience of those that have had the privilege to go to schools of higher learning. Their language is too far above the rest of us. (And they are entitled to their ranks), but PLEASE let the rest of us know what is the results of all these 'arguments' in PLAIN TERMS. We have invested considerable time and efforts to try to utilize what we thought was a viable product to combat most of our dilemmas. For the rest of us, it IS confusing to try to understand what they are saying. So, do I throw out my CS/IES with my generator and go on to something else? Or maybe get a jug of good Vodka to sip on and forget it all. I'm discouraged, Thom
Re: CSIonic versus Colloidal
M. G. Devour wrote: It still says little about behavior in the body, but at least supports your main contention, that petri dish tests that allege to show that particulate silver does not work in culture are not properly done. OK, that is two people in one day that agreed with me, I am not sure I can take much more of this! Just kidding. Frank Key -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSTime for closing arguments, perhaps?
Thom, I have to agree..It is not necessary to describe something with elaborate explanations and grandiose words( oops..even I'm guilty- grin) For those of us who want to share it is vital that we convey the message effectively so everyone can understand. We all know the KISS acronym At least I think we do??? Sometimes I think we all need a reminder time and again. Ernie -Original Message- From: ol...@aol.com [mailto:ol...@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:45 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSTime for closing arguments, perhaps? In a message dated 3/28/2005 8:04:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, mdev...@eskimo.com writes: It seems to have been a fruitful discussion, but we need to be sensitive to the fact that newcomers are not going to be able to get very much from such detailed information. If the topic continued much longer we'd start to lose people from confusion and boredom. Thanks Mike, Some of us may have only an 8th grade education. It's hard to follow the wisdom and experience of those that have had the privilege to go to schools of higher learning. Their language is too far above the rest of us. (And they are entitled to their ranks), but PLEASE let the rest of us know what is the results of all these 'arguments' in PLAIN TERMS.
RE: CSTime for closing arguments, perhaps?
As opposed to self induced hypno trance psycho consiratorial manifesto doctrine anti-doctrine trash that is EASY reading with no thought accepted, I for one like the on topic (and interesting off topic too) tech talk. Would rather risk learning something. Matter of fact I still enjoy learning things. So I say lay it on...and perhaps an occassional explanatory summary would be nice. It was the original and still best use of the net. This site is a good example of such. I like the mix. Maz --- Yogiboy epa...@sympatico.ca wrote: Thanks Mike, I was gonna say..phew! :-) -Original Message- From: M. G. Devour [mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:05 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSTime for closing arguments, perhaps? Hi gang, I wonder if the Ionic vs. Colloidal debate has had enough time now to begin to reach some consensus? Could maybe Trem, Marshall and/or Frank summarize what has been agreed to, learned, proven, disproven, or marked for futher study as a result of all this voluminous verbiage? grin It seems to have been a fruitful discussion, but we need to be sensitive to the fact that newcomers are not going to be able to get very much from such detailed information. If the topic continued much longer we'd start to lose people from confusion and boredom. Again, I'm not demanding a hard and fast cut-off, but am suggesting that we may be ready for a summary? Thank you folks, Mike Devour -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
RE: CSBody pH
I would like some ph strips but I would like to pay for them also information on how to use them. Thanks Mary -- Original message from Ed Kasper edkas...@pacbell.net: -- Personally when I used a Coral calcium in high doses I did not get gout. Then I switched to the huge bottle of Calcium (about 1/4 the price) which was from shellfish and I got severe gout. So I believe Coral Calcium which I can take does not flare up. I repeated this experiment (like a sadist) and regular calcium will cause a flare up for me. I don't feel the need to take any supplements at this time. I offer free ph test strips so people can test themselves. I'll out today but should have some in within the week. You and others are welcome to email me for the free samples email e...@happyherbalist.com with free samples pH strips in the subject line. No cost or obligation but we do send out product literature as well as tell you how to do the test (simple) . lemon water, apple cider vinegar (Bragg's organic) and Kombucha all work along the same lines. KT has more live stuff in it and IMO does much more. KT is a lot more work, although quite enjoyable. Really depends upon where you are in the big picture. I do not recommend taking any of the above at the same time as CS. I'd suggest they be taken hours apart. Ed Kasper LAc. Licensed Acupuncturist Herbalist Acupuncture is a jab well done www.HappyHerbalist.com Santa Cruz, CA. -Original Message- From: mborg...@att.net [mailto:mborg...@att.net] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:54 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: RE: CSBody pH Question, my husband has gout do you think drinking this tea would help he does drink lemon water to balance the ph but we have not checked his ph levels simply because I have not gotten the ph test strips?
