Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[nancymike]

My doctor, along with natural immunogenics and I have been working on
establishing protocols.  I have personally had IV's of CS in June and July
2002, and again this past June and July.  It has been great in regards to my
MS.
Nancy
- Original Message -
From: James Holmes ami...@starband.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



 Hello Jason,

 Yes,  It is one thing to theorize at a distance; another to stand there
 looking at the terribly ill person and weigh all the factors.

 Does anyone know if IV CS is against established protocols? Vets have used
 it successfully against Eastern Equine Encephalitis.   Two 1500 ml doses
of
 15 ppm. The horse lived, with no apparent neuro damage.

 JOH

 -Original Message-
 From: Jason Eaton [mailto:ey...@cox.net]
 Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 6:59 AM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



 Hi James:

 Yes, there is no reason that CS cannot be added to electrolytes already
 being given ( that I am aware of ).  In fact, some MD's utilize CS
combined
 WITH antibiotics.

 Saline is not ideal to use as a buffer, although I have not yet been able
to
 figure out what is being used in its place. ( It is acceptable though ).

 Even dead bacteria can be dangerous when injected into the bloodstream.
The
 air is nowhere near sterile.

 I am not aware of the same concerns being an issue intramuscularly.

 Oral use of CS, I agree, would be a precursor to IV use in the ideal
 situation.

 MD's do not have the legal right to act against established methods, even
in
 acts of desperation.  It may be alright for an MD to utilize silver in a
 case of desperation, but even if signed consent forms are signed, and a
 doctor ignores established protocols, it can still be viewed as criminal
 malpractice.  Knowingly injecting an improperly prepared substance into
the
 bloodstream is such a situation.

 I'm all for nebulizing in the face of any airborne infection.  However,
I'm
 not under the same constraints that MD's would be in in a hospital
 environment.

 For some reason, doctors, even those experienced in alt med methods ( even
 those who utilize h2o2 IV therapy ) are very intimidated by silver use via
 IV.  Like anything else, I suppose, it would just take some experience and
 walking through the uncomfort zone.

 Best Regards,

 Jason


 - Original Message -
 From: James Holmes ami...@starband.net
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:48 PM
 Subject: RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


  Comments in Trem's text.  These speculations are offered as questions
  for discussion, not assertions.
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Jason Eaton [mailto:ey...@cox.net]
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:04 PM
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
  Redux
 
 
 
  Trem:
 
  There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
 
  1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock
  leading
 to
  death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared
  properly.
 
JOH Why not add it to any electrolytes already being given or give
 Ringers
  and CS?
 
  Why not just make it isotonic with salt, if the volume is low enough
  and prepared electrolyte solutions are not available?
 
  2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause
  death in someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be
  sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may
  induce a immune response.
 
  JOH A product that is not pyrogen free, certified or not, can be
  deadly. I  How do pyrogens 1, get into carefully made batches of CS,
  2. If pathogens are present, none have been demonstrated to survive
  even concentrations as low as 0.002 PPM (From distant memory,
  check for yourself)  How will they survive 5 PPM and up?
  Sterile equipment is a given.
 
  3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an
  MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be
  understandable.
 
  JOH  I agree that to be a serious problem with advanced systemic
  infection of an endotoxin type. Perhaps a protocol can be suggested
  based on the kill rates in broth compared with the success against
  that organism in people.  Perhaps an initially cautious beginning:  a
  very small amount by mouth leading up to larger I V doses when the
  first kill debris has been processed.  It is incredibly potent, and in
  dosages that are an order of magnitude or two, below toxicity.
 
  4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal
  malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could
  easily do federal time.
 
  JOH  Not only that, they might hurt somebody.  Don't doctors in
  desperate situations

Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Jason Eaton]

James:

I've likely seen things in regards to humans and illness that most people
wouldn't want to imagine.

I started studying metaphysical medicine about thirteen years ago.
Circumstances have placed me in very unusual situations for most of my life.

In some cases, I can share things that may help others.  In others, I won't
speak unless I'm actually present to evaluate the situation.

I see a clear distinction between someone taking a journey into healing, and
making that commitment beyond all ideas of fear, with complete and absolute
abandon, and those placing their power in the hands of others out of a sense
of fear.  Both situations are dynamically different, and both situations
need to be handled nearly oppositely.  I don't view either as right or
wrong, only spiritually different places.

Best Regards,

Jason


 - Original Message -
 From: James Holmes ami...@starband.net
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:27 AM
 Subject: RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 
  Hello Jason,
 
  Yes,  It is one thing to theorize at a distance; another to stand there
  looking at the terribly ill person and weigh all the factors.



--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Ode Coyote]

  Ya got me. I don't have a clue.

 Blood borne Pac men?

Ode

At 03:44 PM 6/21/2003 -0600, you wrote:


HI Ode,

I guess my assumption that silver would stay in place was very wrong.

I wonder how it is transported and process into an excretable form?
BloodLiverbile?

JOH

-Original Message-
From: Ode Coyote [mailto:coyote...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 6:00 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



 Dogs excreted approximately 90% of an inhaled dose of metallic silver
particles in the feces within 30 days of exposure.  {Phalen and Morrow
1973}

  The only way those metallic silver particles could have been excreted via
feces from the lungs of the dogs is to pass through the blood stream.
  No mention made of particle size...probably finely ground dust.

Ode


At 11:03 AM 6/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
Hi Marshall,

I agree.  The organs were loaded.  I don't think the report spoke of
vascular occlusion tho, but I have only read a synopsis.

A silver colloid will be excreted too, according to our friend and
former list participant Roger Altman's study [with a population of one,
himself]. Metallic silver will probably not be excreted.

When you calculate the amount of water you would have to drink to get a
dose of 3.8 grams, with 10 ppm sol,  the water will be toxic before the
silver.

Should the need arise I would not hesitate to self-administer via IV
the silver that I make.  How much bacteria can fall in during the brief
time that I pour the DW or before I put the lid on the generator?  Not
enough to
Herx.   And there will certainly be no live ones there.

Got 4 million?  Then you can prove that CS is not pyrogenic and get it
FDA approved.


JOH

-Original Message-
From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@execonn.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:31 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
Redux



I don't see how injecting fine metal power of any kind has any relation
to the amount of that metal being toxic.  I would think that metal
power would very effectively block up the blood vessels, and once you
block the vessels to the brain or heart death would certainly follow.
Toxcitiy could be totally different for a colloid, or compound.

Marshall

James Holmes wrote:

  Please note folk,  3.8 g. Is the TOXIC dose, NOT the lethal dose.
  Dogs (don't remember the weight) were killed with 1 gram of fine
  metal powder injected.  Not intentionally; they were trying to
  create a blood problem to study. It is in John Hill's book. Who
  would ever want to get anywhere that, and how could you do it even
  if 10 times the required dose was administered?
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:19 PM
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
  Redux
 
  Hi Jason,
 
  As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing
  out the reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer
  and not a physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd
  probably try it since the critter would probably be a goner if
  something wasn't tried.  Too bad they don't have any animals with
  SARS to try it on. That would produce some definitive results just
  as trying it on a human would.
 
  The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled
  water poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It
  would be pure by definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?
  Or is it that a small amount of water is too much for the body to
  assimilate? I don't think so since it is used in injections all the
  time.
 
  What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled
  water?
 
  Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using
  it.  But as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm
  talking about using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.
 
  Regards,
 
  Trem
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
  Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
  Redux
 
   Trem:
  
   There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
  
   1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock
   leading
  to
   death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared
   properly.
  
   2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause
   death in someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol
   be sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that
   may induce a immune response.
  
   3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If
   an MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can
   certainly be understandable.
  
   4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Ode Coyote]

Of course that depends on the velocity of administration and the location 
of the injection site.

Werewolf

At 03:44 PM 6/21/2003 -0600, you wrote:

Hi Alexander,

RE:  in order to cross over, and meet my maker...

I don't think so.  3.8 G. is the toxic, not necessarily lethal dose.

JOH

-Original Message-
From: colloidal.sil...@cox.net [mailto:colloidal.sil...@cox.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 4:42 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Cc: carpae.d...@cox.net
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



Ok ...

Here's a link to water poisoning Q/A's...
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/42/1671_51282.htm
So too much injected in the arteries  veins etc... could cause similar
problems...

Now as for committing Cepu-Cu with C.S., well I Own and use one of Trem's
SG-7's... It makes terrific C.S. with very small particle size,  a
resultant very high surface area... I consistently set the generator to
produce batches of C.S. with a 15ppm conductivity reading That's
15-milligrams per. liter of distilled water... 15 milligrams is 15 x 1/1000
of 1-gram of ionic silver particles per. liter of distilled water... Since
it takes 3.8 grams = 3800 milligrams of elemental silver to commit Cepu-Cu,
then I will need to drink ((253) 1-liter bottles = @ 67 U.S.Gal. of C.S.),
pretty much, all at once, in order to cross over, and meet my maker...
H Any one here think they can drink that much ?? Try
Valiums  Booze, that should be a bit easier...

Talk about a Drinking Problem

Regards,
Alexander



- Original Message -
From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Hi Jason,

 As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing out
 the reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer and
 not a physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd probably
 try it
since
 the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't tried.  Too
 bad they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.  That would
 produce
some
 definitive results just as trying it on a human would.

 The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled
 water poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It would
 be pure
by
 definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it that a
 small amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?  I don't
 think so since it is used in injections all the time.

 What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled water?

 Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using
 it.
But
 as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm talking
 about using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.

 Regards,

 Trem

 - Original Message -
 From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
 Redux


  Trem:
 
  There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
 
  1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock
leading
 to
  death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared
  properly.
 
  2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause
  death
in
  someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be
  sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may
  induce a immune response.
 
  3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If
  an MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly
  be understandable.
 
  4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute
  criminal malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper
  justification could easily do federal time.
 
  Best Regards,
 
  Jason
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
  Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
  Redux
 
 
   Hi Catherine,
  
   I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If
deionized
  or
   distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is
   it
 not
  a
   no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial
protocol?
  It
   seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if
   the patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.
   It also
  seems
   to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost
   immediately
  which
   would be the definitive answer.  If one used a mix of standard CS
which
 is
   normally composed of 70-90% ions and the remainder being colloids,
   it
  would
   cover the bases of which is effective since both would be
   circulating
in
  the
   system.  It wouldn't matter which did the job of they were to see
   a
  decrease
   in viral load

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[James Holmes]

True:  you would need an IVAC that could pump about two bathtubs full of 10
PPM into the person in 24 hours.  They would explode before the 3.8 g toxic
dose of Ag was reached. 60gal/24hrs/60min = .0417 gal/min = 4 oz/minute.
(If I did the math right)  Or something like that. I'm too slow to work it
out carefully right now. 

JOH

-Original Message-
From: Ode Coyote [mailto:coyote...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 6:30 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



Of course that depends on the velocity of administration and the location 
of the injection site.
Werewolf

At 03:44 PM 6/21/2003 -0600, you wrote:
Hi Alexander,

RE:  in order to cross over, and meet my maker...

I don't think so.  3.8 G. is the toxic, not necessarily lethal dose.

JOH

-Original Message-
From: colloidal.sil...@cox.net [mailto:colloidal.sil...@cox.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 4:42 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Cc: carpae.d...@cox.net
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
Redux



Ok ...

Here's a link to water poisoning Q/A's... 
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/42/1671_51282.htm
So too much injected in the arteries  veins etc... could cause similar 
problems...

Now as for committing Cepu-Cu with C.S., well I Own and use one of 
Trem's SG-7's... It makes terrific C.S. with very small particle size, 
 a resultant very high surface area... I consistently set the 
generator to produce batches of C.S. with a 15ppm conductivity 
reading That's 15-milligrams per. liter of distilled water... 15 
milligrams is 15 x 1/1000 of 1-gram of ionic silver particles per. 
liter of distilled water... Since it takes 3.8 grams = 3800 milligrams 
of elemental silver to commit Cepu-Cu, then I will need to drink ((253) 
1-liter bottles = @ 67 U.S.Gal. of C.S.), pretty much, all at once, in 
order to cross over, and meet my maker... H Any one here think 
they can drink that much ?? Try Valiums  Booze, that 
should be a bit easier...

Talk about a Drinking Problem

Regards,
Alexander



- Original Message -
From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
Redux


  Hi Jason,
 
  As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing 
  out the reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer 
  and not a physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd 
  probably try it
since
  the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't tried.  
  Too bad they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.  That 
  would produce
some
  definitive results just as trying it on a human would.
 
  The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled 
  water poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It 
  would be pure
by
  definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it that a 
  small amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?  I 
  don't think so since it is used in injections all the time.
 
  What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled 
  water?
 
  Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using 
  it.
But
  as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm talking 
  about using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.
 
  Regards,
 
  Trem
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
  Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
  Redux
 
 
   Trem:
  
   There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
  
   1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock
leading
  to
   death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared 
   properly.
  
   2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause 
   death
in
   someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be 
   sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may 
   induce a immune response.
  
   3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If 
   an MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can 
   certainly be understandable.
  
   4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute 
   criminal malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper 
   justification could easily do federal time.
  
   Best Regards,
  
   Jason
  
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
   To: silver-list@eskimo.com
   Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
   Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
   Redux
  
  
Hi Catherine,
   
I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If
deionized
   or
distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why 
is it
  not
   a
no brainer

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[James Holmes]

Ha.

Blood borne Pac men?

From what I hear, they are actually working on it, for good and for bad.

JOH

-Original Message-
From: Ode Coyote [mailto:coyote...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 6:28 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux





   Ya got me. I don't have a clue.

  Blood borne Pac men?

Ode

At 03:44 PM 6/21/2003 -0600, you wrote:

HI Ode,

I guess my assumption that silver would stay in place was very wrong.

I wonder how it is transported and process into an excretable form?
BloodLiverbile?

JOH

-Original Message-
From: Ode Coyote [mailto:coyote...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 6:00 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
Redux



 Dogs excreted approximately 90% of an inhaled dose of metallic silver 
particles in the feces within 30 days of exposure.  {Phalen and Morrow 
1973}

   The only way those metallic silver particles could have been 
excreted via feces from the lungs of the dogs is to pass through the blood
stream.
   No mention made of particle size...probably finely ground dust.

Ode


At 11:03 AM 6/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
 Hi Marshall,
 
 I agree.  The organs were loaded.  I don't think the report spoke of 
 vascular occlusion tho, but I have only read a synopsis.
 
 A silver colloid will be excreted too, according to our friend and 
 former list participant Roger Altman's study [with a population of 
 one, himself]. Metallic silver will probably not be excreted.
 
 When you calculate the amount of water you would have to drink to get 
 a dose of 3.8 grams, with 10 ppm sol,  the water will be toxic before 
 the silver.
 
 Should the need arise I would not hesitate to self-administer via IV 
 the silver that I make.  How much bacteria can fall in during the 
 brief time that I pour the DW or before I put the lid on the 
 generator?  Not
enough to
 Herx.   And there will certainly be no live ones there.
 
 Got 4 million?  Then you can prove that CS is not pyrogenic and get 
 it FDA approved.
 
 
 JOH
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@execonn.com]
 Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:31 AM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
 Redux
 
 
 
 I don't see how injecting fine metal power of any kind has any 
 relation to the amount of that metal being toxic.  I would think that 
 metal power would very effectively block up the blood vessels, and 
 once you block the vessels to the brain or heart death would 
 certainly follow. Toxcitiy could be totally different for a colloid, 
 or compound.
 
 Marshall
 
 James Holmes wrote:
 
   Please note folk,  3.8 g. Is the TOXIC dose, NOT the lethal dose. 
   Dogs (don't remember the weight) were killed with 1 gram of fine 
   metal powder injected.  Not intentionally; they were trying to 
   create a blood problem to study. It is in John Hill's book. Who 
   would ever want to get anywhere that, and how could you do it even 
   if 10 times the required dose was administered?
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com]
   Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:19 PM
   To: silver-list@eskimo.com
   Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for 
   SARS Redux
  
   Hi Jason,
  
   As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing 
   out the reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a 
   designer and not a physician.  Although if it was an animal I 
   owned, I'd probably try it since the critter would probably be a 
   goner if something wasn't tried.  Too bad they don't have any 
   animals with SARS to try it on. That would produce some definitive 
   results just as trying it on a human would.
  
   The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled 
   water poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It 
   would be pure by definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it? 
   Or is it that a small amount of water is too much for the body to 
   assimilate? I don't think so since it is used in injections all 
   the time.
  
   What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled 
   water?
  
   Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for 
   using it.  But as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 
   grams.  I'm talking about using tenths or hundredths of 
   milligrams, not grams.
  
   Regards,
  
   Trem
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
   To: silver-list@eskimo.com
   Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
   Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for 
   SARS Redux
  
Trem:
   
There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
   
1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause 
shock leading
   to
death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Ode Coyote]

 You can use the silverpuppy to get an 'idea' of the quality of the water 
too.
 I think this can be done with any generator where there's an indicator 
that current is flowing...an LED or light bulb in series...an ammeter 
actually gives you a number.  Each type of gen will be different depending 
on whetted electrode area, electrode spacing and starting voltage.
 Bad water will brighten up the light as the electrodes first touch the 
water. In good water, the indicator will be weak at full exposure to the 
water and not be visible at all when first being lowered into the water. 
[less exposure]

 Ode

At 01:47 PM 6/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60449.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: Mike Monett
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:06:48

I forgot another very important observation on the salt test.

Another measure is how long it takes for the dispersion to settle.

A weak dispersion will remain pale blue for a long time.

20 ppm calculated will settle to the bottom in a few days. The water will
become clear.

I didn't keep the 50 ppm calculated dispersion long enough to tell how
long it takes to settle. I assume it would settle rapidly.

These are qualitative indications, to be sure. It might be difficult to
tell the difference between 20 ppm and 21 ppm calculated dispersions
unless you put them side by side.

But if you can get a repeatable and predictable process, that's all that
is needed.

A lady just wrote and mentioned she was waiting to fire up her
Silverpuppy until she got her Hanna and found good quality dw.

I told her to go buy different brands and make some with each one. Do the
salt test and cover the glass with saran wrap to prevent evaporation.

When she was done, put the glasses side by side and compare the
dispersions. Keep the brands that gave the strongest dispersion.

Then place her Silverpuppy in service and start getting some use from it.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Ode Coyote]

  How many times on this list have we seen 'Oops, that should have been 
milliamps rather than microamps or pints instead of liters'


If my recent go 'round with Hanna's calibration solution is any indicator, 
any system that depends of chemical sachets supplied by the manufacturer or 
solutions or calculations made by an operator can be suspect and no one 
would know the difference.


General rule of human nature:
 The more educated and lettered a person is, the more they tend to defend 
their errors and oversights.  They are, after all, paid to be right.

..and the rest of us must rely on, not so common, common sense.

Fortunately, any modicom of common sense is adequate in the 
making,  application and actual use of CS.

 The details are almost irrelevent when good results in use are to be had.

 Heck, even the bad stuff works.
..now, further complicate the effects with the power of belief.

If you can be convinced you have been burned, then actually grow a blister 
in a matter of minutes. Then UN grow it when you're told the burn that 
didn't happen, didn't happen...


 When a grapefruit sized tumor can dissappear over night, then reappear a 
week later.


...it sorta makes a person wonder what is real.

 Maybe nothing is.
 Maybe science is nothing more than quantifiable magic.

Rumor has it that the entire universe is created by the perception of it.
..and reality itself is subjectively relative.

Ode

At 04:09 PM 6/20/2003 +0005, you wrote:

Paula writes:
   I am completely puzzled by your utter reliance on a test (salt test)
 that is so completely subjective and not at all measured, controlled,
 or precise and your attitude towards ole Bob's lab equipment and
 multiple cross checks and tests by others (real lab tests, real
 calibrated equipment, much more repeatable even if somewhat variable).
 And your reliance on calculations and equations that as far as I can
 tell from your posts do not make any allowance for any variables in
 the distilled water. You amaze me.

Hehe. Personalities are the *fun* part of all this, dontcha know?
GRIN

Seriously, Paula highlights for me the one objection Mike M. has made
to the others' efforts that I have not yet seen a solid answer to, and
I'd *like* to see that answer.

I'm talking about his contention that some of Bob's samples show
higher silver content than is theoretically possible from the number
of Coulombs of electrons passed through the cell. So far the only
answer has been, We've made hundreds of measurements and cross
checked with each other.

Now that is a good enough answer as far as it goes, and I do not
believe that Bob and the others are wrong. But *somebody* had better
figure out just what's being missed. What assumptions are wrong behind
Mike's calculations? What part of the computation is wrong. Or what
part of the data? Or assumption behind all of the measurements?

What say ye, oh silvan sayers of sooth?

Be well,

Mike D.
(who's signed his posts 'Mike D.' since the last time another 'Mike'
was active on the forum...)

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60387.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: M. G. Devour
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 04:27:53

   Mike Monett writes:

   Others will  have  to  try   it   and   see  how  it  works... My
   interpretation of  the effect of the density of the ion  cloud on
   the formation of particles is well documented in  the archives...
   An ion is an ion. The more of them, the better.

   Mike is making claims for noticeably improved performance  for his
   CS using  significantly  lower current  density  than  the nearest
   competing process.

   I think that his anecdotal reports are suggestive enough for us to
   want to  do  exactly what he recommends...  try  to  reproduce his
   results. He's certainly given us enough details of his  process to
   enable us to do so.

   Trem and  others raise the seemingly obvious point  that  ions are
   ions, and  that  increased  dose   can   easily  make  up  for any
   difference in ion concentration.

  [...]

  Mike, there  may  be a few details worth mentioning.  I  had several
  occasions to  take two 8-oz glasses made at 1.4  mA/sq.in.  when the
  teenage son brought home some really bad viruses from school.

  The added dose worked, but sluggishly.

  When I made the first clear solution on a Monday at 87  uA/sq.in., I
  tried the salt test. This gave a much stronger dispersion than I was
  used to seeing.

  I was a little bit suspicious about drinking the entire glass,  so I
  held it in my mouth for ten minutes and spit it out.

  I made a few more runs the following days to see how  repeatable the
  process was, and tested them the same way. I didn't make any  at 1.4
  mA/sq.in. since  I  felt I was getting enough  silver  with  the new
  method.

  On Wednesday, the Shingles scabs fell off. I was astonished.

  They had been bothering me for about six months, and the cs  made at
  1.4 mA/sq.in. had little or no effect.

  Also, my  friend and I both noticed our  cavities  stopped bothering
  us.

  Since then,  we only need to take one mouthful of the  new  cs every
  three or four days. The teenager takes one mouthful every two days.

  His cold  sores have stopped. We no longer get  sore  throats. There
  are no  more  tingling  sensations indicating  the  start  of  a new
  Shingles outbreak.

  I think two things are very significant:

  1. The  new cs has much higher ion concentration and  less particles
  than anything  I was able to make before at 1.4 mA/sq.in.  There are
  no black  deposits on the bottom of the glass under  the electrodes.
  There is  no residue on the glass, and only an  occasional  trace on
  the anode. The cathode remains clean. The cs is stable and  shows no
  sign of plating out. It is stable in the refrigerator.

  2. I have changed my procedure of taking the cs. I now hold it in my
  mouth for ten minutes, then slowly swallow it a bit at a time.

  The new  cs seems to be just as effective on bacteria as  before. An
  earache is  cleared  up  with  a   Q-tip  soaked  in  cs.  Minor eye
  infections go  away  in a few hours. Cuts that  are  covered  with a
  bandage soaked  in  cs heal very quickly. So it  works  the  same on
  bacteria.

  My hope  is  someone  who is bothered by viruses  may  try  this and
  report their results.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Jack Dayton]

Ode Coyote  6/21/03   4:16 AM

 ...it sorta makes a person wonder what is real.
 
 Maybe nothing is.
 Maybe science is nothing more than quantifiable magic.
 
 Rumor has it that the entire universe is created by the perception of it.
 ..and reality itself is subjectively relative.


Well thanks a lot buddy !!

I thought I had it all figured out
and you jump in  --
well back to religion and  Aesop.

Jack



--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Robert Berger]

Mike,

A very interesting report!

You said the salt test indicated a much higher percent of ions which is very
good.

Have Frank Key check it and see what the percent of ions it contains.

With my wide anode and rod cathode at 1 1/2 spacing and two gallons of DW
has a starting current of 22 uA, and checks out at 99+% ionic.

I just set up six samples of CS from my archive, some dating back to 2000 to
run a comparison salt test. The results are very confusing. I will tabulate
the results here. I used the same amount of CS and attempted to use the same
amount of Morton's salt
the tip o an 1/8 wide spatula.

The ratings are on a zero to five scale, with zero equal no change and five
the heaviest change,

Rating 0 29.45 ppm LVDC No visible color change
Rating 3 29.45/2 diluted with structured DW, slightly cloudy
Rating 111 ppm LVDC from 9/8/00, slight blue color
Rating 312.3 ppm HVAC slight blue
Rating 14.3 ppm HVAC from 8/26/01, no change
Rating 511 ppm LVDC 2/8/03 very cloudy

 I do not understand what is going on!

Ole Bob



--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[James Holmes]

Hi Reid,

I don't know.  Get Hill's book, it is only about 12 clams.  

JOH

-Original Message-
From: Reid Harvey [mailto:pott...@wlink.com.np] 
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:40 PM
To: silver list
Subject: Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



James, Everybody,
Can you please let me know your impressions as to why those dogs died? What
is it that silver in this amount would do?  And what if it's ionic silver in
this amount?

Also, does anyone know where I can get the fine, particulate silver?  As
with other forms of silver I'm thinking about using this to saturate ceramic
water filters. Reid

James Holmes wrote,
Please note folk,  3.8 g. Is the TOXIC dose, NOT the lethal dose.  Dogs
(don't remember the weight) were killed with 1 gram of fine metal powder

injected.  Not intentionally; they were trying to create a blood problem to
study. It is in John Hill's book. Who would ever want to get anywhere that,
and how could you do it even if 10 times the required dose was administered?



--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[James Holmes]

HI Ode,

I guess my assumption that silver would stay in place was very wrong.

I wonder how it is transported and process into an excretable form?
BloodLiverbile?

JOH

-Original Message-
From: Ode Coyote [mailto:coyote...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 6:00 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



 Dogs excreted approximately 90% of an inhaled dose of metallic silver 
particles in the feces within 30 days of exposure.  {Phalen and Morrow
1973}

  The only way those metallic silver particles could have been excreted via 
feces from the lungs of the dogs is to pass through the blood stream.
  No mention made of particle size...probably finely ground dust.

Ode


At 11:03 AM 6/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
Hi Marshall,

I agree.  The organs were loaded.  I don't think the report spoke of 
vascular occlusion tho, but I have only read a synopsis.

A silver colloid will be excreted too, according to our friend and 
former list participant Roger Altman's study [with a population of one, 
himself]. Metallic silver will probably not be excreted.

When you calculate the amount of water you would have to drink to get a 
dose of 3.8 grams, with 10 ppm sol,  the water will be toxic before the 
silver.

Should the need arise I would not hesitate to self-administer via IV 
the silver that I make.  How much bacteria can fall in during the brief 
time that I pour the DW or before I put the lid on the generator?  Not
enough to
Herx.   And there will certainly be no live ones there.

Got 4 million?  Then you can prove that CS is not pyrogenic and get it 
FDA approved.


JOH

-Original Message-
From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@execonn.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:31 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
Redux



I don't see how injecting fine metal power of any kind has any relation 
to the amount of that metal being toxic.  I would think that metal 
power would very effectively block up the blood vessels, and once you 
block the vessels to the brain or heart death would certainly follow. 
Toxcitiy could be totally different for a colloid, or compound.

Marshall

James Holmes wrote:

  Please note folk,  3.8 g. Is the TOXIC dose, NOT the lethal dose. 
  Dogs (don't remember the weight) were killed with 1 gram of fine 
  metal powder injected.  Not intentionally; they were trying to 
  create a blood problem to study. It is in John Hill's book. Who 
  would ever want to get anywhere that, and how could you do it even 
  if 10 times the required dose was administered?
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:19 PM
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
  Redux
 
  Hi Jason,
 
  As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing 
  out the reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer 
  and not a physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd 
  probably try it since the critter would probably be a goner if 
  something wasn't tried.  Too bad they don't have any animals with 
  SARS to try it on. That would produce some definitive results just 
  as trying it on a human would.
 
  The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled 
  water poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It 
  would be pure by definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  
  Or is it that a small amount of water is too much for the body to 
  assimilate? I don't think so since it is used in injections all the 
  time.
 
  What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled 
  water?
 
  Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using 
  it.  But as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm 
  talking about using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.
 
  Regards,
 
  Trem
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
  Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
  Redux
 
   Trem:
  
   There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
  
   1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock 
   leading
  to
   death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared 
   properly.
  
   2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause 
   death in someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol 
   be sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that 
   may induce a immune response.
  
   3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If 
   an MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can 
   certainly be understandable.
  
   4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute 
   criminal malpractice.  In the US

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[James Holmes]

Hi Alexander,

RE:  in order to cross over, and meet my maker...   

I don't think so.  3.8 G. is the toxic, not necessarily lethal dose.  

JOH

-Original Message-
From: colloidal.sil...@cox.net [mailto:colloidal.sil...@cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 4:42 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Cc: carpae.d...@cox.net
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



Ok ...

Here's a link to water poisoning Q/A's...
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/42/1671_51282.htm
So too much injected in the arteries  veins etc... could cause similar
problems...

Now as for committing Cepu-Cu with C.S., well I Own and use one of Trem's
SG-7's... It makes terrific C.S. with very small particle size,  a
resultant very high surface area... I consistently set the generator to
produce batches of C.S. with a 15ppm conductivity reading That's
15-milligrams per. liter of distilled water... 15 milligrams is 15 x 1/1000
of 1-gram of ionic silver particles per. liter of distilled water... Since
it takes 3.8 grams = 3800 milligrams of elemental silver to commit Cepu-Cu,
then I will need to drink ((253) 1-liter bottles = @ 67 U.S.Gal. of C.S.),
pretty much, all at once, in order to cross over, and meet my maker...
H Any one here think they can drink that much ?? Try
Valiums  Booze, that should be a bit easier...

Talk about a Drinking Problem

Regards,
Alexander



- Original Message -
From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Hi Jason,

 As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing out 
 the reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer and 
 not a physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd probably 
 try it
since
 the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't tried.  Too 
 bad they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.  That would 
 produce
some
 definitive results just as trying it on a human would.

 The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled 
 water poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It would 
 be pure
by
 definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it that a 
 small amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?  I don't 
 think so since it is used in injections all the time.

 What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled water?

 Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using 
 it.
But
 as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm talking 
 about using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.

 Regards,

 Trem

 - Original Message -
 From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
 Redux


  Trem:
 
  There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
 
  1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock
leading
 to
  death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared 
  properly.
 
  2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause 
  death
in
  someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be 
  sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may 
  induce a immune response.
 
  3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If 
  an MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly 
  be understandable.
 
  4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute 
  criminal malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper 
  justification could easily do federal time.
 
  Best Regards,
 
  Jason
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
  Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
  Redux
 
 
   Hi Catherine,
  
   I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If
deionized
  or
   distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is 
   it
 not
  a
   no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial
protocol?
  It
   seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if 
   the patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.  
   It also
  seems
   to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost 
   immediately
  which
   would be the definitive answer.  If one used a mix of standard CS
which
 is
   normally composed of 70-90% ions and the remainder being colloids, 
   it
  would
   cover the bases of which is effective since both would be 
   circulating
in
  the
   system.  It wouldn't matter which did the job of they were to see 
   a
  decrease
   in viral load and/or the patient responded favorably.
  
   Mikes idea of using predominantly ionic silver which his process 
   seems

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[sol]

So, Mike M., I'm still confused---what is the ppm of the CS you are
now making at the lower current? Did I miss that?
paula




--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60494.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: sol
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:17:51

   So, Mike  M., I'm still confused---what is the ppm of  the  CS you
   are now making at the lower current? Did I miss that?

   paula

  Hi Paula,

  I have no idea what a Hanna would measure, but the 1.4  mA/sq.in. cs
  slowly turns  pale  blue in the salt test, and you have  to  get the
  light just right to see it. I consider it quite weak.

  The 87 uA/sq.in. cs has an immediate response at 20 ppm calculated.

  In the  salt  test,  you can see white clouds  growing  up  from the
  bottom. The dispersion is milky white after you stir it, but you can
  see objects  behind the glass. It settles out after a  few  days and
  the liquid turns clear.

  When you  hold it in your mouth for ten minutes and run  your tongue
  along your teeth, they feel quite rough. Bits of tartar may fall off
  after a while.

  I tried to make stronger cs, it is not very nice to drink.  The salt
  test is  very  strong, it has a metallic taste, and  it  gives  me a
  tummyache.

  So 20 ppm calculated seems to be a happy compromise.

  The Hanna  PWT should measure a bit less, since there  is  almost no
  trace of black deposits anywhere and the glass stays clean.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60481.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: Robert Berger
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:55:57

   Mike,

   A very interesting report!

   You said  the  salt test indicated a much higher  percent  of ions
   which is very good.

   Have Frank  Key  check  it and see what  the  percent  of  ions it
   contains.

   With my  wide  anode  and rod cathode at 1  1/2  spacing  and two
   gallons of  DW has a starting current of 22 uA, and checks  out at
   99+% ionic.

   I just set up six samples of CS from my archive, some  dating back
   to 2000  to  run  a comparison salt  test.  The  results  are very
   confusing. I  will  tabulate  the results here.  I  used  the same
   amount of CS and attempted to use the same amount of Morton's salt
   the tip of an 1/8 wide spatula.

   The ratings are on a zero to five scale, with zero equal no change
   and five the heaviest change,

   I do not understand what is going on!

   Ole Bob

  Hi Bob,

  Very Interesting! Thanks for trying this.

  Don't worry  about trying to keep the amount of salt  the  same. Any
  excess salt  is  transparent, so you just need enough  to  make sure
  every silver ion is captured.

  I moved your table here to add comments to the entries.

   Rating 029.45 ppm LVDC No visible color change

  This one  is  curious.  It shows the highest ppm,  but  there  is no
  dispersion. I think anomalies like this have been reported before.

  Apparently there  are  no  free silver  ions  to  interact  with the
  chlorine ions.  It acts as if the silver content was in the  form of
  particles.

   Rating 329.45/2 diluted with structured DW, slightly cloudy

  When you diluted it, something happened to free up some silver ions.
  This is even more curious.

   Rating 111 ppm LVDC from 9/8/00, slight blue color
   Rating 312.3 ppm HVAC slight blue

  These are about what I'd expect from my previous cs at 1.4 mA/sq.in.

  What's the  difference betwen slight blue and  slight  blue? Why
  did they get a different rating? Why has the previous one  the  same
  rating of 3 with a slightly cloudy description?

   Rating 14.3 ppm HVAC from 8/26/01, no change

  This makes the most sense of all. The dispersion is too weak to see.

   Rating 511 ppm LVDC 2/8/03 very cloudy

  Another anomaly. Low measured ppm, but lots of ions available.

  So three  of them make sense, and three do not.  That's  pretty good
  for a start. Usually nothing makes sense:)

  Thanks for posting this report, Bob. I think the salt test may add a
  new dimension to our knowledge of colloidal silver.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Reid Harvey]

James, Everybody,
Can you please let me know your impressions as to why those dogs died?
What is it that silver in this amount would do?  And what if it's ionic
silver in this amount?

Also, does anyone know where I can get the fine, particulate silver?  As
with other forms of silver I'm thinking about using this to saturate
ceramic water filters.
Reid

James Holmes wrote,
Please note folk,  3.8 g. Is the TOXIC dose, NOT the lethal dose.  Dogs
(don't remember the weight) were killed with 1 gram of fine metal powder

injected.  Not intentionally; they were trying to create a blood problem
to
study. It is in John Hill's book. Who would ever want to get anywhere
that,
and how could you do it even if 10 times the required dose was
administered?



--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60419.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: Robert Berger
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:00:10

   Mike,

   Look at my data plot. I don't run 335 uA continually.  The current
   starts out at 2.64 ma or 66 uA/sqin. and builds until the regualto
   cuts in  at 12.6 ma. running in 2 gallons of 4 ppm CS. This  was a
   reprocessed lot as stated.

   I guess  I  could order in the silver  for  this  experiment. I'll
   think about it.

   Ole Bob

  Hey Bob, that's great!

  You will find this system is quite different from what you  are used
  to.

  Your LM117  regulator  won't go down to 335 uA. A  LM134  would work
  better, but there's no need to complicate things just to take a look.

  You may be using a 24V doorbell transformer to supply the DC. If so,
  you should get about 34 to 36 Volts.

  Here's my notes from the last run:

  

  Sun Jun 15, 2003, 06:13:45 pm Started run. Quit at midnight

  Sun Jun 15, 2003, 06:13:25 pm 6.43V 323uA
  Sun Jun 15, 2003, 07:23:51 pm 2.598 322uA
  Sun Jun 15, 2003, 08:29:35 pm 2.200 321uA
  Sun Jun 15, 2003, 09:48:25 pm 1.754 322Ua
  Sun Jun 15, 2003, 10:27:32 pm 1.632 321uA
  Sun Jun 15, 2003, 11:58:56 pm 1.501 333uA
  Mon Jun 16, 2003, 12:17:11 am 1.483 335uA

  Tiny bit on anode rods. Make them the cathode next time.

  

  You can  see  the  voltage  dropped  quite  rapidly  at  first, then
  gradually decreased.  This is the familiar 1/t curve  where  most of
  the change occurs at the beginning.

  The reason  for the increase at the end is the line  voltage changed
  when everyone  turned off the lights and tv and went to bed.  The tv
  draws high  current  at the peak of the  cycle,  which  flattens the
  peak. When this effect is removed, the peak voltage increases and my
  rectifier/filter shows a 4% increase in DC voltage. That's OK.

  After the  first hour, the voltage across the cell was  about  2V or
  less.

  If you  have 34V available, then all you need is a  resistor  to set
  the current. The value is

  R = E / I
= (34 - 2) / 335e-6
= 95522.388 ohms

  A 100K  is  a  common  standard  value.  It  will  probably  have 5%
  tolerance. That's OK.

  The current   will   be   slightly   low   at   the  beginning, then
  asymptotically approach the final value.

  When you integrate it over time, there will be a small error but not
  enough to  change  the   results   significantly.  You  can  use the
  integrated value to calculate the ppm.

  400 millitres should be a good volume to try. It won't take so long.

  I'm thrilled that you might give this a try. Thanks!

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Ode Coyote]

 I wonder if it was the silver or the powder that killed the dogs?  Sounds 
like something similar to injecting radiator stop leak.

Ode

At 11:48 PM 6/18/2003 -0600, you wrote:

Please note folk,  3.8 g. Is the TOXIC dose, NOT the lethal dose.  Dogs
(don't remember the weight) were killed with 1 gram of fine metal powder
injected.  Not intentionally; they were trying to create a blood problem to
study. It is in John Hill's book. Who would ever want to get anywhere that,
and how could you do it even if 10 times the required dose was administered?

-Original Message-
From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:19 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



Hi Jason,

As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing out the
reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer and not a
physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd probably try it since
the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't tried.  Too bad
they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.  That would produce some
definitive results just as trying it on a human would.

The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled water
poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It would be pure by
definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it that a small
amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?  I don't think so
since it is used in injections all the time.

What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled water?

Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using it.  But
as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm talking about
using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.

Regards,

Trem

- Original Message -
From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Trem:

 There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:

 1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock
 leading
to
 death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared
 properly.

 2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause
 death in someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be
 sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may
 induce a immune response.

 3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an
 MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be
 understandable.

 4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal
 malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could
 easily do federal time.

 Best Regards,

 Jason



 - Original Message -
 From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
 Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


  Hi Catherine,
 
  I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If
  deionized
 or
  distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is
  it
not
 a
  no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial
  protocol?
 It
  seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if
  the patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.
  It also
 seems
  to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost
  immediately
 which
  would be the definitive answer.  If one used a mix of standard CS
  which
is
  normally composed of 70-90% ions and the remainder being colloids,
  it
 would
  cover the bases of which is effective since both would be
  circulating in
 the
  system.  It wouldn't matter which did the job of they were to see a
 decrease
  in viral load and/or the patient responded favorably.
 
  Mikes idea of using predominantly ionic silver which his process
  seems
to
  produce doesn't carry as much weight with me as he seems to think it
does.
  An ion is an ion and the ions he produces cannot be any different
  than
an
  ion any device produces.  The major difference can only be the ratio
  of
 ions
  to particles and the size of the particles.  If the mix is made
  using a
 good
  process, it will always be crystal clear indicating the colloids are
 within
  the small range of being colorless.
 
  As Bob Lee once pointed out there are about 1.41252 X 10+18 atoms in
  one teaspoon of CS made to 20+ PPM.  I would think it wouldn't take
  too much
 in
  an intravenous solution to see some dramatic results.
 
  And let's remember, an IV of distilled water isn't going to do any
damage
 so
  why wouldn't someone try this just to see if it works?  Or as I said
  earlier, is there something I missed.
 
  Best regards,
 
  Trem
 
  
 I became involved with this group and actually had the
   opportunity
to
   present CS to them during a conference

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Ode Coyote]

 Dogs excreted approximately 90% of an inhaled dose of metallic silver 
particles in the feces within 30 days of exposure.  {Phalen and Morrow  1973}


 The only way those metallic silver particles could have been excreted via 
feces from the lungs of the dogs is to pass through the blood stream.

 No mention made of particle size...probably finely ground dust.

Ode


At 11:03 AM 6/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:

Hi Marshall,

I agree.  The organs were loaded.  I don't think the report spoke of
vascular occlusion tho, but I have only read a synopsis.

A silver colloid will be excreted too, according to our friend and former
list participant Roger Altman's study [with a population of one, himself].
Metallic silver will probably not be excreted.

When you calculate the amount of water you would have to drink to get a dose
of 3.8 grams, with 10 ppm sol,  the water will be toxic before the silver.

Should the need arise I would not hesitate to self-administer via IV the
silver that I make.  How much bacteria can fall in during the brief time
that I pour the DW or before I put the lid on the generator?  Not enough to
Herx.   And there will certainly be no live ones there.

Got 4 million?  Then you can prove that CS is not pyrogenic and get it FDA
approved.


JOH

-Original Message-
From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@execonn.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:31 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



I don't see how injecting fine metal power of any kind has any relation to
the amount of that metal being toxic.  I would think that metal power would
very effectively block up the blood vessels, and once you block the vessels
to the brain or heart death would certainly follow. Toxcitiy could be
totally different for a colloid, or compound.

Marshall

James Holmes wrote:

 Please note folk,  3.8 g. Is the TOXIC dose, NOT the lethal dose.
 Dogs (don't remember the weight) were killed with 1 gram of fine metal
 powder injected.  Not intentionally; they were trying to create a
 blood problem to study. It is in John Hill's book. Who would ever want
 to get anywhere that, and how could you do it even if 10 times the
 required dose was administered?

 -Original Message-
 From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com]
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:19 PM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
 Redux

 Hi Jason,

 As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing out
 the reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer and
 not a physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd probably
 try it since the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't
 tried.  Too bad they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.
 That would produce some definitive results just as trying it on a
 human would.

 The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled
 water poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It would
 be pure by definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it
 that a small amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?
 I don't think so since it is used in injections all the time.

 What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled water?

 Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using
 it.  But as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm
 talking about using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.

 Regards,

 Trem

 - Original Message -
 From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
 Redux

  Trem:
 
  There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
 
  1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock
  leading
 to
  death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared
  properly.
 
  2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause
  death in someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol
  be sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may
  induce a immune response.
 
  3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If
  an MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly
  be understandable.
 
  4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute
  criminal malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper
  justification could easily do federal time.
 
  Best Regards,
 
  Jason
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
  Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
  Redux
 
 
   Hi Catherine,
  
   I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If
   deionized
  or
   distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Ode Coyote]

  I don't see how doing the salt test can display any quantitive results 
unless the exact amount of salt were known and the exact amount of precipitate.
 It might be a useful addition to looking at the TE with a laser, but like 
looking at TE, there's no way to really communicate what heavy or 
Lite  Strong/weak  is in a meaningful manner. Just how milky is very milky?
 Opinion based on observation is always personal and relative. 
Interpretation will have to be broad based.
Sometimes when two people are looking at the very same item in the same 
room in the same light from the same angle, even then they argue.


Faradays calculations could give a theoretical maximum PPM.
I would agree that if a lab test went over that max, something could be amiss.
 There are many things that could account for a result under the 
calculated PPM.

Not everything is visible and available to the eyeball.

Ode

At 05:44 PM 6/19/2003 -0400, you wrote:

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60387.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: M. G. Devour
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 04:27:53

   I may have missed it, but, Mike, have you had analyses done yet to
   determinethe   ionic/particulate   ratio   and   total  silver
   concentration?

  Mike,

  Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.

  No, I have not sent anything to a lab. I agree with Ken:

Welcome to the wonderful world of infallable science where no two
labs can agree on anything and no two processes even come close.

A PWT  only reads ions for sure...maybe correctly and  maybe not.
Depends on what lab results you compare the readings to.

http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60223.html

  However, I have asked Robert to make the same thing and let  us know
  his results.

  In the  final analysis, what we are looking for  is  consistency and
  repeatability.

  Three feet  of 12 ga wire cut in half should give  about  3.8 square
  inches of wetted area for the anode and cathode. I run at 335 uA, so
  the current density is around 87 uA/sq. in.

  With medium  quality dw, a current regulator would be  nice,  but is
  not needed.  A simple resistor to 12 Volts or  more  should regulate
  the current  to 20% or better. This is good enough.  It  will repeat
  the same curve as long as the dw is the same.

  If we use 1/2 litre of water or so, all we need is to  calculate the
  time needed to reach a target ppm.

  Here's the  equations  and results for 425 millilitres of  dw  on my
  system:

  I   = 335e-6  ; current in Amperes
  k   = 107.88 / 96500  ; electrochemical equivalent of silver
  lt  = 0.425   ; liters
  ppm = 20  ; desired ppm

  C   = I * sec ; Coulombs
  gm  = lt * ppm / 1000 ; grams of silver deposited
  sec = (lt * ppm) / (1000 * k * I)
  hrs = sec / 3600

  Solution

  I   = +0.000335000
  k   = +0.0011179274611
  lt  = +0.42500
  ppm = +20.
  C   = +7.6033555802744
  sec = +22696.583821714
  gm  = +0.00850
  hrs = +6.3046066171429

  Six hours  might seem a long time compared to current  practise, but
  as long  as  the production rate exceeds  the  consumption  rate, it
  really doesn't matter how long it takes. If you only need a mouthful
  every three or four days, 1/2 litre should serve a small  family for
  a week.

  One advantage of the long brew time is you don't have to worry about
  going shopping  and  returning an hour late. The cs  will  be  a bit
  stronger, but  you  won't  have to throw it out  as  you  would with
  higher current densities.

  Very little  black crud is deposited on the electrodes. I get  a bit
  on the  anode and none on the cathode. The cs is crystal  clear, and
  nothing plates out on the glass containing it. So you don't  have to
  spend time cleaning with H2O2.

  The salt  test is excellent confirmation of the  strength.  From the
  dissociation of salt in water:

NaCl(s) + H2O ---gt; Na(+)(aq) + Cl(-)(aq)

  A silver ion reacts with a chlorine ion to form silver chloride:

Ag(+)(aq) + Cl(-)(aq) ---gt; AgCl(s)

  The silver chloride is insoluble in water and precipitates out  as a
  white solid.  This creates a dispersion that indicates  the strength
  of the cs. At 20 ppm calculated, the effect is quite strong.

  So, anyone  with  a dvm and some salt should  be  able  to duplicate
  these results fairly well.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[M. G. Devour]

Paula writes:
   I am completely puzzled by your utter reliance on a test (salt test)
 that is so completely subjective and not at all measured, controlled,
 or precise and your attitude towards ole Bob's lab equipment and
 multiple cross checks and tests by others (real lab tests, real
 calibrated equipment, much more repeatable even if somewhat variable).
 And your reliance on calculations and equations that as far as I can
 tell from your posts do not make any allowance for any variables in
 the distilled water. You amaze me.

Hehe. Personalities are the *fun* part of all this, dontcha know? 
GRIN

Seriously, Paula highlights for me the one objection Mike M. has made 
to the others' efforts that I have not yet seen a solid answer to, and 
I'd *like* to see that answer.

I'm talking about his contention that some of Bob's samples show
higher silver content than is theoretically possible from the number
of Coulombs of electrons passed through the cell. So far the only
answer has been, We've made hundreds of measurements and cross 
checked with each other. 

Now that is a good enough answer as far as it goes, and I do not 
believe that Bob and the others are wrong. But *somebody* had better 
figure out just what's being missed. What assumptions are wrong behind 
Mike's calculations? What part of the computation is wrong. Or what 
part of the data? Or assumption behind all of the measurements?

What say ye, oh silvan sayers of sooth?

Be well,

Mike D.
(who's signed his posts 'Mike D.' since the last time another 'Mike' 
was active on the forum...)

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60440.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: Ode Coyote
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:17:19

   I don't  see  how doing the salt test can  display  any quantitive
   results unless  the exact amount of salt were known and  the exact
   amount of precipitate.

  Try it.  Excess  salt  is invisible, so all you  need  is  enough to
  ensure every silver ion is captured. Three shakes is  usually enough
  for about 1 inch of cs. More may be needed for high concentration or
  greater quantity.

  The test merely confirms that silver ions are present, and  it gives
  a rough guide of the strength.

  If you  compare  dw  made  at  1.4  mA/sq.in.  with  dw  made  at 87
  uA/sq.in., there  is a dramatic difference with the  same  number of
  Coulombs transferred.

   It might  be a useful addition to looking at the TE with  a laser,
   but like looking at TE, there's no way to really  communicate what
   heavy or  Lite Strong/weak is in a  meaningful  manner. Just
   how milky is very milky?

  You have to try it and see. There are many ways to describe it.

  First is  how does it take for the dispersion to appear.  A  weak cs
  will take five minutes or more. The dispersion is pale blue  and you
  have to get the light just the right way to see it.

  As the  cs gets stronger, the dispersion appears much faster.  At 20
  ppm calculated,  the  response is immediate, and you  can  see white
  clouds and  wisps like fog growing up from the bottom of  the glass.
  After mixing,  the dispersion is still transparent and  you  can see
  objects behind the glass.

  At 50  ppm calculated, the dispersion is like a  miniature explosion
  as soon as the first salt crystal hits the water. The  dispersion is
  like skim milk. It is difficult to see objects behind the glass.

   Opinion based  on  observation is  always  personal  and relative.
   Interpretation will  have  to be broad based.  Sometimes  when two
   people are  looking at the very same item in the same room  in the
   same light from the same angle, even then they argue.

  Sometimes, two  labs  give different results on the  same  tests. To
  quote from someone's previous post:

Welcome to the wonderful world of infallable science where no two
labs can agree on anything and no two processes even come close.

A PWT  only reads ions for sure...maybe correctly and  maybe not.
Depends on what lab results you compare the readings to.

http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60223.html

  Yes, personal observation is fallible when items are very similar.

  But there  is no question about the ability to  tell  the difference
  between cs  made  at 1.4 mA/sq.in. and the same  number  of Coulombs
  transferred at 87 uA/sq.in.

  It's like  the  difference  between dropping  a  tennis  ball  and a
  bowling ball  on  your foot. That is a personal  observation,  but I
  think everyone can identify which one they would prefer.

   Faradays calculations  could  give a  theoretical  maximum  PPM. I
   would agree that if a lab test went over that max, something could
   be amiss.

   There are  many things that could account for a  result  under the
   calculated PPM.

   Not everything is visible and available to the eyeball.

  Yes, I  agree  completely. Any deposit of black  residue  is  a sign
  particles are being made. This reduces the amount of ions available.

  But as you point out, not everything is visible. I have  tried three
  different methods of stirring, and had poor results with each one.

  They seemed  to  give  the same results in the  salt  test,  but had
  little effect on the cavities or shingles.

  One sample  even formed a small shiny flake of silver in  the bottom
  of the  glass when it was placed in the refrigerator.  I  have never
  seen this before - I used to store my cs in the fridge.

  Since stirring seemed to reduce the effectiveness of the cs,  and it
  gave such odd results, I have abandoned stirring.

  BTW -  I  checked to see if the 87 uA/sq.in. cs  was  stable  in the
  fridge.

  Yes, it is perfectly stable.

   Ode

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60449.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: Mike Monett
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:06:48

I forgot another very important observation on the salt test.

Another measure is how long it takes for the dispersion to settle.

A weak dispersion will remain pale blue for a long time.

20 ppm calculated will settle to the bottom in a few days. The water will 
become clear.

I didn't keep the 50 ppm calculated dispersion long enough to tell how 
long it takes to settle. I assume it would settle rapidly.

These are qualitative indications, to be sure. It might be difficult to 
tell the difference between 20 ppm and 21 ppm calculated dispersions 
unless you put them side by side.

But if you can get a repeatable and predictable process, that's all that 
is needed.

A lady just wrote and mentioned she was waiting to fire up her 
Silverpuppy until she got her Hanna and found good quality dw.

I told her to go buy different brands and make some with each one. Do the 
salt test and cover the glass with saran wrap to prevent evaporation.

When she was done, put the glasses side by side and compare the 
dispersions. Keep the brands that gave the strongest dispersion.

Then place her Silverpuppy in service and start getting some use from it.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[sol]

Mike,
  I am completely puzzled by your utter reliance on a test (salt test)
that is so completely subjective and not at all measured, controlled,
or precise and your attitude towards ole Bob's lab equipment and
multiple cross checks and tests by others (real lab tests, real
calibrated equipment, much more repeatable even if somewhat variable).
And your reliance on calculations and equations that as far as I can
tell from your posts do not make any allowance for any variables in
the distilled water. You amaze me.
paula



--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Marshall Dudley]

M. G. Devour wrote:

 Paula writes:
I am completely puzzled by your utter reliance on a test (salt test)
  that is so completely subjective and not at all measured, controlled,
  or precise and your attitude towards ole Bob's lab equipment and
  multiple cross checks and tests by others (real lab tests, real
  calibrated equipment, much more repeatable even if somewhat variable).
  And your reliance on calculations and equations that as far as I can
  tell from your posts do not make any allowance for any variables in
  the distilled water. You amaze me.

 Hehe. Personalities are the *fun* part of all this, dontcha know?
 GRIN

 Seriously, Paula highlights for me the one objection Mike M. has made
 to the others' efforts that I have not yet seen a solid answer to, and
 I'd *like* to see that answer.

 I'm talking about his contention that some of Bob's samples show
 higher silver content than is theoretically possible from the number
 of Coulombs of electrons passed through the cell. So far the only
 answer has been, We've made hundreds of measurements and cross
 checked with each other.

I can think of only two ways you could get more silver atoms in the water
than the number of electrons used in the production.  First if by chance we
are all wrong about the silver always leaving the wire as ions. If by chance
they could leave as clumps of atoms, that could explain it.

The other way is if electrolysis is not being used. That is, if an arc is
present, then we are not talking about electrolysis at all, but either
evaporation or sputtering, both of which can remove far more silver from the
electrode than the number of electrons.

Marshall


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60456.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: Marshall Dudley
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:42:31

   I can  think of only two ways you could get more  silver  atoms in
   the water  than  the number of electrons used  in  the production.
   First if  by  chance  we are all  wrong  about  the  silver always
   leaving the wire as ions. If by chance they could leave  as clumps
   of atoms, that could explain it.

  Hi Marshall,

  That would earn you a Nobel Prize if you could figure out how  to do
  it. The electrodes would wear down faster, and  electroplating would
  require less current. The aluminum refining industry would  lay gold
  at your feet - electricity is expensive:)

  A brief  trip through google produced many  references  to Faraday's
  laws. Here's one:

Faraday's investigations into the nature of electricity  also led
him to  formulate new scientific laws. For example,  he determined
that in  electrolysis  the   mass   of  a  substance  deposited or
dissolved at  the electrode will be proportional to the  amount of
charge that  passes through the solution - this  became  the first
law of electrolysis.

http://www.enc.org/features/calendar/unit/0,1819,196,00.shtm

  Faraday's work eventually led to the discovery of the electron:

http://www.nidlink.com/~jfromm/history/electrons.htm

  OT, but  Faraday  was  recognized by his peers as  one  of  the most
  important scientists  of  the time. Here's  a  beautiful  article by
  Hemholtz in 1881:

http://dbhs.wvusd.k12.ca.us/Chem-History/Helmholtz-1881.html

  I think his work pretty well established that one  electron accounts
  for one ion, and his laws are on pretty solid ground.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60453.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: sol
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:04:08

   Mike,

   I am  completely  puzzled by your utter reliance on  a  test (salt
   test) that  is so completely subjective and not  at  all measured,
   controlled, or  precise  and your attitude towards  ole  Bob's lab
   equipment and multiple cross checks and tests by others  (real lab
   tests, real  calibrated  equipment, much more  repeatable  even if
   somewhat variable).

   And your  reliance on calculations and equations that as far  as I
   can tell  from  your  posts  do not  make  any  allowance  for any
   variables in the distilled water. You amaze me.

   paula

  Hi Paula,

  Thanks. Sometimes I amaze me also:)

  The salt  test  is a qualitative test that merely  confirms  what we
  already know through Faraday's Laws:

http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60449.html
http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60452.html

  I believe Mike D. answered your second concern.

  For the  last concern, good dw is specified to have less than  1 ppm
  of impurities. At 20 ppm calculated, this is less than 0.5% error.

  It is  not  possible to fill the glass that accurately,  so  I don't
  worry about it.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[jrowland]

 ...At 20 ppm calculated, this is less than 0.5% error.
That's the whole point right there---calculated.
Isn't that how NASA lost the $125M  Mars Climate Orbiter a couple years
ago?
jr


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Arnold Beland]

Hey Mike,
Welcome to the Non-Euclidean CS Universe.
- Original Message - 
From: jrowl...@nctimes.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 6:37 PM
Subject: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


  ...At 20 ppm calculated, this is less than 0.5% error.
 That's the whole point right there---calculated.
 Isn't that how NASA lost the $125M  Mars Climate Orbiter a couple
years
 ago?
 jr


 --
 The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal
silver.

 Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at:
http://silverlist.org

 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

 Silver-list archive:
http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

 List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Jonathan B. Britten]

Hi, Mike, 

I am not a doctor either,  and I do not dispute the accuracy of your
measurements or your report;  I just wonder whether the conclusion --
that the new batch of CS was dramatically superior to the previous
batches -- is correct.  If so, it is good news for me, as I use a highly
ionic CS (the SG6 constant current Silvergen model, with stirring, which
is quite easy to use.)  

As for lunar influence, which I have noticed several times but not
strictly verified by experiment:  this effect, if it is real, produces
either more particles or more agglomeration of the same quantity of
particles, with the observable result being a yellow color and
dramatically higher TE.  (Finally found my laser pointer and verfied
that;  the TE difference between clear and yellow CS is quite dramatic.)
   There is nothing mystical or nonsensical about lunar effects:  most
are quite obvious, ranging from tidal changes to menstrual cycles.   

For all concerned, your good results are good news, and I am glad for
you personally and for anyone else who benefits from the report. 

Cheers, 

JBB




Mike Monett wrote:
 
 url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60367.html
 Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
 From: Jonathan B. Britten
 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:26:27
 
The information  below is very interesting indeed. However,  I can
not help but wonder whether the apparently higher efficacy  of the
new-method CS was in fact merely coincidental, a result of the new
CS being  taken  at  a time when  the  virus  was  vulnerable, and
further at  a  time following the use of ordinary  CS  which had
rendered the virus much weaker.
 
From the information provided, it seems difficult to  exclude this
possibility. If there is a way to exclude this  interpretation, it
would be good to know.
 
JBB
 
   Hi Jonathan,
 
   I am  not  an doctor, and know little about medicine.  But  I  am an
   engineer, and I know a lot about making accurate measurements.
 
   I can confirm the current used to make the cs was constant to within
   +/-2.5%, depending on the line voltage.
 
   I can confirm the brew time was accurate to within  several seconds,
   depending on what my hands were doing when the timer went off.
 
   I can confirm the fill level was constant to within 1/8 of an inch.
 
   The dw was from Walmart. Not the best quality, but  very consistent.
   I measured  the  initial voltage for most runs  just  to  verify the
   quality, and  plotted  the  cv curve when I had  time.  There  is no
   reason to expect much variation in the cs.
 
   I made  8  oz each day. This was a religion.  Nothing  else happened
   until the  timer went off and I drank the cs, and my  normal morning
   coffee.
 
   The Shingles  attack was in October, 2001. The normal  cs  killed it
   very quickly.
 
   A low-level  infection  returned this January. It  was  in  the same
   general location, but a bit lower down.
 
   I made  no  change  in  my procedure of  making  cs,  except  to try
   stirring. It  did not work, the Shingles got worse, and I  went back
   to the normal cs. The Shingles returned to its previous level.
 
   Perhaps three weeks transpired, and things were pretty much  the same
   as before. Taking a shower produced the same level of pain.
 
   I got the idea to try to make a 9V generator, and posted the goal to
   the list. I got my first results on Monday, and posted to the list.
 
   The response  to  the new cs was so dramatic  and  sudden,  there is
   little to  account  for  it except  the  increased  concentration of
   silver ions.
 
   After discovering this, I changed to the new cs and started taking a
   mouthful every three or four days, instead of drinking 8 oz per day.
 
   There have been no tingling sensations indicating the start of a new
   Shingles infection,  no trace of any cold sore  infections,  no pain
   from cavities, and the teenager and her mother are  completely clear
   of any new infections.
 
   They both  had  been  taking the 1.4 mA/sq. in  cs  before,  but the
   teenager got a serious infection. This cleared up when I switched to
   the 87uA/sq.  in. cs and put him on a regime of  one  mouthful every
   two days.
 
   The indications  are  the same across the board. For all  of  us who
   take it, the new cs is much better than the old.
 
   Others will  have to try it and see how it works. I have  posted the
   necessary information in the ULVDC thread.
 
   I am not claiming magic or the phase of the moon.  My interpretation
   of the  effect of the density of the ion cloud on  the  formation of
   particles is well documented in the archives.
 
   An ion is an ion. The more of them, the better.
 
 Best Regards,
 
 Mike Monett
 
 --
 The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
 
 Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org
 
 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
 
 Silver

Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Jonathan B. Britten]

Regarding the dangers of IV CS:  would these risks be mitigated at all
by intramuscular injections, or by sub-cutaneous injection?   Jason? 


If not,  might not B. Bradley's reported method of widespread skin
coverage with a CS/DMSO mixture by useful in a hospital setting?  
Patients are typically naked but for the hospital robe,  and there would
thus be a large area of readily accessible skin for spraying. . . . 



JBB



Jason Eaton wrote:
 
 Hi Trem:
 
 It's a no-brainer for you and I truly.  We don't have medical licenses!
 
 It's not that distilled water is toxic...  It's only a matter of shock.  If
 a solution is not properly buffered when injected, the fluid changes can
 cause shock.  If the distilled water were truly pure, and the drip done
 properly, this would, I believe, be an exception and not the rule.  The PH
 of the sol has to be precise.
 
 A pyrogen is a substance that enduces an immune system response ( in
 particular, it enduces a fever ) when used in the body...  I'm not certain
 if the term is limited to IV injections only, but FDA standards specify
 anything injected must be pyrogen and endotoxin free.
 
 Endotoxin is bacterial cell matter ( I'm sure there's a better and more
 official way to describe the term ).  It is not enough that a substance be
 free of living bacteria, it must be free of all bacterial matter.  Even
 small amounts of endotoxin injected directly into the blood stream can have
 consequences.
 
 This means that if the CS has come in contact with air, it is not likely to
 be endotoxin free.
 
 The reason these things are in place:  It's too easy to make a mistake
 otherwise.  We should consider and learn the lesson that Hudson learned,
 when he and an MD killed a person by injecting contaminated monoatomic gold
 into a patient.
 
 Best Regards,
 
 Jason
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:19 PM
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
 
  Hi Jason,
 
  As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing out the
  reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer and not a
  physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd probably try it
 since
  the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't tried.  Too bad
  they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.  That would produce
 some
  definitive results just as trying it on a human would.
 
  The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled water
  poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It would be pure
 by
  definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it that a small
  amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?  I don't think so
  since it is used in injections all the time.
 
  What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled water?
 
  Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using it.
 But
  as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm talking about
  using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.
 
  Regards,
 
  Trem
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
  Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
 
 
   Trem:
  
   There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
  
   1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock
 leading
  to
   death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared properly.
  
   2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause death
 in
   someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be sterile, it
   cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may induce a immune
   response.
  
   3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an MD
   does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be
   understandable.
  
   4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal
   malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could
   easily do federal time.
  
   Best Regards,
  
   Jason
  
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
   To: silver-list@eskimo.com
   Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
   Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
  
  
Hi Catherine,
   
I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If
 deionized
   or
distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is it
  not
   a
no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial
 protocol?
   It
seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if the
patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.  It also
   seems
to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost immediately
   which
would be the definitive answer

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[M. G. Devour]

Mike Monett writes:
   Others will  have to try it and see how it works...  My
 interpretation of the  effect of the density of the ion cloud on  the
  formation of particles is well documented in the archives... An ion
 is an ion. The more of them, the better.

Mike is making claims for noticeably improved performance for his CS
using significantly lower current density than the nearest competing
process.

I think that his anecdotal reports are suggestive enough for us to
want to do exactly what he recommends... try to reproduce his results.
He's certainly given us enough details of his process to enable us to
do so.

Trem and others raise the seemingly obvious point that ions are ions, 
and that increased dose can easily make up for any difference in ion 
concentration.

May I pose an hypothesis and some questions?

Do we know all there is to know about how ions are hydrated? Could
there be any differences in their activity based on the energetic 
and/or kinetic regime in which they enter the water?

Could the characteristics of the particulate component be part of the 
difference in performance? If you're making particles at half the 
current density of before, there's certainly a chance that they are 
different in size and/or character?

I may have missed it, but, Mike, have you had analyses done yet to
determine the ionic/particulate ratio and total silver concentration?

My hypothesis? That there are some differences in what he's making due 
to, yes, the absence of mechanical or thermal stirring, and, yes again, 
the lower voltage and/or current density.

It should not be hard to reproduce his setup and process. If the
results are as dramatic for others as his were, then it should also be
easy to verify the performance, at least to the level of a body of
anecdotal reports. 

At that point it may be worth comparing the new preparation to 
his old product in petri dish experiments.

What say the assembled masses?

Be well,

Mike D.

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Lew FH]

CCreel wrote:

   I think you know I have a great deal of respect for your work.  I've
mentioned this more than once on another list to which we both belong.  But
 I think if you are to make a suggestion like NO and insist it CAN be 
done,
the onus of responsibility is on you to explain..
The  Universe supports these people as best as it can.  But sometimes there are
hard, cold facts we wish weren't there that require some thinking outside of
the box to get around them. 

  Catherine, I thank you again for your appreciation of my little 
contribution. I dedicate 
this expression of respect to my teachers who taught me the basics and to the 
pioneers
of allied sciences who have guided and  enabled me to posit their hypotheses
to propagate their pioneering spirit. As Nature's assistant, I do not profess 
to cure but merely
to asisst in  the healing process.  I do not INSIST but merely to suggest by 
positing 
reserached work of pioneers. What I profess is relevant only to my solo 
practice and it does
not reflect the stance of any medical institution. Acceptance of a therapeutic 
regime or protocol
is personal. The freedom of choice is best explained and done in an open forum 
where there is pooling of researched resources where we learn and share from 
one another's mistakes.


   But sometimes there are
hard, cold facts we wish weren't there that require some thinking outside of
the box to get around them. 

Local Nasal Factors Affecting Nasal NO

Alterations in local nasal physiology could affect nasal NO, or
may be mediated by nasal NO.

Nasal volume. Changes in nasal cavity volume could affect
nasal NO by altering NO uptake into nasal blood, and by modulating
the nasal epithelial surface area. Also, the communication
of the nasal cavity with the communicating sinuses, which
produce NO, could be altered. Evidence concerning the influence
of nasal volume on nasal NO is contradictory at present.
Nasal NO output was not volume dependent, provided a true
steady state plateau was achieved, in one study (151) but has
been reported to be volume dependent at low transnasal flow
rates in another (153) possibly owing to changes in nasal aerodynamics
(143).
Nasal aerodynamics. The physics of airflow through the nasal
cavity could alter the sampling of nasal NO. At low flows,
laminar flow may predominate, and certain areas of the cavity
may contribute less NO to the sample. Also at low flows, the
pressure fluxes in the nasal cavity will be less than at high
flows, possibly reducing the efflux of gas from the paranasal sinuses.
Variations in nasal aerodynamics may explain some of
the flow dependency of nasal NO output (143).


Medications and Nasal NO

Medications have been shown to affect NO and should be recorded.
Those reported to have an effect on nasal NO include
nasal decongestants (44, 142), which decrease nasal NO output
by about 15% (151,153). The routine use of decongestants
to facilitate nasal NO measurement itself requires further
study. Nasal steroids have been reported to have no effect in
normal subjects in one study (55), but to reduce nasal NO output
after 2 wk of therapy in normal subjects (78) and asthmatics
(23) in other reports. Antibiotic therapy had no effect on
nasal NO in normal subjects in one study (154) but nasal NO
rose after treatment of sinusitis in another (138). Vasodilators
(e.g., papaverine) increased nasal NO output in one report
(155) whereas histamine had no effect in another study (153).
Saline does not appear to affect nasal NO output (151) but
lidocaine may have a differential effect on nasal and sinus NO
output (140).
Nitric oxide synthase inhibitors. L-NAME administered by
nasal spray has been reported to have no effect in some studies
(47,77,153), but also to decrease NO output (155,156).
L-Arginine. L-Arginine is the substrate for NO synthesis.
Systemic administration increased nasal NO output by 35% in
one study (121) but had no effect when applied by nasal spray
in normal patients (153).

Smoking
A small decrease in nasal NO has been observed in smokers
(145).

References
1. Shelhamer, J. H., S. J. Levine, T. Wu, D. B. Jacoby, M. A. Kaliner, and
S. I. Rennard. 1995. NIH conference: airway inflammation. Ann. Intern.
Med. 123:28%304.
2. Gustaffson, L. E., A. M. Leone, M. G. Persson, N. P. Wiklund, and S.
Moncada. 1991. Endogenous nitric oxide is present in the exhaled air
of rabbits, guinea pigs and humans. Biocbem. Biophys. Res. Commun.
181(2):852-857.
3. Zayasu, K., K. Sekizawa, S. Okinaga, M. Yamaya, T. Ohrui, and H.
Sasaki. 1997. Increased carbon monoxide in exhaled air of asthmatic
patients. Am. J. Respir. Crit. Care Med. 156:1141143.
4. Horvath, I., L. E. Donnelly, A. Kiss, P. Paredi, S. A. Kharitonov, and
P. J. Barnes. 1998. Raised levels of exhaled carbon monoxide are associated
with an increased expression of heme oxygenase-1 in airway
macrophages in asthma: a new marker of oxidative stress. Thorax 53:
668-672.
5. Yamaya, M., K. Sekizawa, S. 

Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Jason Eaton]

Hi James:

Yes, there is no reason that CS cannot be added to electrolytes already
being given ( that I am aware of ).  In fact, some MD's utilize CS combined
WITH antibiotics.

Saline is not ideal to use as a buffer, although I have not yet been able to
figure out what is being used in its place. ( It is acceptable though ).

Even dead bacteria can be dangerous when injected into the bloodstream.  The
air is nowhere near sterile.

I am not aware of the same concerns being an issue intramuscularly.

Oral use of CS, I agree, would be a precursor to IV use in the ideal
situation.

MD's do not have the legal right to act against established methods, even in
acts of desperation.  It may be alright for an MD to utilize silver in a
case of desperation, but even if signed consent forms are signed, and a
doctor ignores established protocols, it can still be viewed as criminal
malpractice.  Knowingly injecting an improperly prepared substance into the
bloodstream is such a situation.

I'm all for nebulizing in the face of any airborne infection.  However, I'm
not under the same constraints that MD's would be in in a hospital
environment.

For some reason, doctors, even those experienced in alt med methods ( even
those who utilize h2o2 IV therapy ) are very intimidated by silver use via
IV.  Like anything else, I suppose, it would just take some experience and
walking through the uncomfort zone.

Best Regards,

Jason


- Original Message -
From: James Holmes ami...@starband.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:48 PM
Subject: RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Comments in Trem's text.  These speculations are offered as questions for
 discussion, not assertions.

 -Original Message-
 From: Jason Eaton [mailto:ey...@cox.net]
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:04 PM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



 Trem:

 There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:

 1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock leading
to
 death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared properly.

   JOH Why not add it to any electrolytes already being given or give
Ringers
 and CS?

 Why not just make it isotonic with salt, if the volume is low enough
 and prepared electrolyte solutions are not available?

 2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause death in
 someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be sterile, it
 cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may induce a immune
 response.

 JOH A product that is not pyrogen free, certified or not, can be
 deadly. I  How do pyrogens
 1, get into carefully made batches of CS,
 2. If pathogens are present, none have been demonstrated to survive
 even concentrations as low as 0.002 PPM (From distant memory,
 check for yourself)  How will they survive 5 PPM and up?
 Sterile equipment is a given.

 3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an MD
 does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be
 understandable.

 JOH  I agree that to be a serious problem with advanced systemic
 infection of an endotoxin type.
 Perhaps a protocol can be suggested based on the kill rates in broth
 compared with the success against that organism in people.  Perhaps an
 initially cautious beginning:  a very small amount by mouth leading up to
 larger I V doses when the first kill debris has been processed.  It is
 incredibly potent, and in dosages that are an order of magnitude or two,
 below toxicity.

 4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal
 malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could
 easily do federal time.

 JOH  Not only that, they might hurt somebody.  Don't doctors in
 desperate situations have license to do whatever they think may help that
 they are qualified to administer?  If not, by whom and for what purpose?

 If---big if, it could be practically demonstrated [That's not the same as
 jumping through all the hoops] that SARS cannot live in 5-15 PPM CS, then
 there would be no reason to not nebulize; any overspray will  help
disinfect
 the environment and all fomites it touches.

 Best Regards,

 Jason



 - Original Message -
 From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
 Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


  Hi Catherine,
 
  I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If
  deionized
 or
  distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is it
  not
 a
  no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial
  protocol?
 It
  seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if the
  patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.  It also
 seems
  to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Marshall Dudley]

Mike Monett wrote:

 url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60344.html
 Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
 From: C Creel
 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:52:17

   [...]

For example, so many things work in vitro that don't work in vivo.
Right now, NIH scientists find that licorice is disbling  the SARS
virus. The  chances  it will do this in vivo are  quite  slim. But
wouldn't it be grand if it did?

It would  be  grand  if NO worked. In theory  it  should.  It even
stands a  good  chance  in practice - but only  if  we  can create
another delivery system that won't risk the lives of others.

I'd be  glad to introduce your idea to the SARS Task Force  if you
can come up with an idea for a safe way of administering it.

Regards,
Catherine

   Catherine,

   Your caring shows in each letter of each word you write.

   A question: if they are willing to try licorice in vitro, would they
   be willing to try cs?

I would like to point out that licorice mimics one of the body's hormones,
and too much of it can make a person very sick, and possibly be fatal.

Marshall


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Robert Berger]

Jason et al,

When Stephen Quinto makes a medical CS product it never sees air. From the very
beginning of the process the DW and the CS are under a filtered argon gas
atmosphere for the very reasons that you have stated.

From private communications with Stephen.

Ole Bob




--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[James Holmes]

Hello Jason,

Yes,  It is one thing to theorize at a distance; another to stand there
looking at the terribly ill person and weigh all the factors. 

Does anyone know if IV CS is against established protocols? Vets have used
it successfully against Eastern Equine Encephalitis.   Two 1500 ml doses of
15 ppm. The horse lived, with no apparent neuro damage. 

JOH

-Original Message-
From: Jason Eaton [mailto:ey...@cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 6:59 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



Hi James:

Yes, there is no reason that CS cannot be added to electrolytes already
being given ( that I am aware of ).  In fact, some MD's utilize CS combined
WITH antibiotics.

Saline is not ideal to use as a buffer, although I have not yet been able to
figure out what is being used in its place. ( It is acceptable though ).

Even dead bacteria can be dangerous when injected into the bloodstream.  The
air is nowhere near sterile.

I am not aware of the same concerns being an issue intramuscularly.

Oral use of CS, I agree, would be a precursor to IV use in the ideal
situation.

MD's do not have the legal right to act against established methods, even in
acts of desperation.  It may be alright for an MD to utilize silver in a
case of desperation, but even if signed consent forms are signed, and a
doctor ignores established protocols, it can still be viewed as criminal
malpractice.  Knowingly injecting an improperly prepared substance into the
bloodstream is such a situation.

I'm all for nebulizing in the face of any airborne infection.  However, I'm
not under the same constraints that MD's would be in in a hospital
environment.

For some reason, doctors, even those experienced in alt med methods ( even
those who utilize h2o2 IV therapy ) are very intimidated by silver use via
IV.  Like anything else, I suppose, it would just take some experience and
walking through the uncomfort zone.

Best Regards,

Jason


- Original Message -
From: James Holmes ami...@starband.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:48 PM
Subject: RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Comments in Trem's text.  These speculations are offered as questions 
 for discussion, not assertions.

 -Original Message-
 From: Jason Eaton [mailto:ey...@cox.net]
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:04 PM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
 Redux



 Trem:

 There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:

 1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock 
 leading
to
 death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared 
 properly.

   JOH Why not add it to any electrolytes already being given or give
Ringers
 and CS?

 Why not just make it isotonic with salt, if the volume is low enough 
 and prepared electrolyte solutions are not available?

 2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause 
 death in someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be 
 sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may 
 induce a immune response.

 JOH A product that is not pyrogen free, certified or not, can be 
 deadly. I  How do pyrogens 1, get into carefully made batches of CS,
 2. If pathogens are present, none have been demonstrated to survive
 even concentrations as low as 0.002 PPM (From distant memory,
 check for yourself)  How will they survive 5 PPM and up?
 Sterile equipment is a given.

 3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an 
 MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be 
 understandable.

 JOH  I agree that to be a serious problem with advanced systemic 
 infection of an endotoxin type. Perhaps a protocol can be suggested 
 based on the kill rates in broth compared with the success against 
 that organism in people.  Perhaps an initially cautious beginning:  a 
 very small amount by mouth leading up to larger I V doses when the 
 first kill debris has been processed.  It is incredibly potent, and in 
 dosages that are an order of magnitude or two, below toxicity.

 4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal 
 malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could 
 easily do federal time.

 JOH  Not only that, they might hurt somebody.  Don't doctors in 
 desperate situations have license to do whatever they think may help 
 that they are qualified to administer?  If not, by whom and for what 
 purpose?

 If---big if, it could be practically demonstrated [That's not the same 
 as jumping through all the hoops] that SARS cannot live in 5-15 PPM 
 CS, then there would be no reason to not nebulize; any overspray will  
 help
disinfect
 the environment and all fomites it touches.

 Best Regards,

 Jason



 - Original Message -
 From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
 To: silver-list

Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Marshall Dudley]

I don't see how injecting fine metal power of any kind has any relation to the
amount of that metal being toxic.  I would think that metal power would very
effectively block up the blood vessels, and once you block the vessels to the
brain or heart death would certainly follow. Toxcitiy could be totally different
for a colloid, or compound.

Marshall

James Holmes wrote:

 Please note folk,  3.8 g. Is the TOXIC dose, NOT the lethal dose.  Dogs
 (don't remember the weight) were killed with 1 gram of fine metal powder
 injected.  Not intentionally; they were trying to create a blood problem to
 study. It is in John Hill's book. Who would ever want to get anywhere that,
 and how could you do it even if 10 times the required dose was administered?

 -Original Message-
 From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com]
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:19 PM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

 Hi Jason,

 As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing out the
 reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer and not a
 physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd probably try it since
 the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't tried.  Too bad
 they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.  That would produce some
 definitive results just as trying it on a human would.

 The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled water
 poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It would be pure by
 definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it that a small
 amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?  I don't think so
 since it is used in injections all the time.

 What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled water?

 Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using it.  But
 as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm talking about
 using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.

 Regards,

 Trem

 - Original Message -
 From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

  Trem:
 
  There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
 
  1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock
  leading
 to
  death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared
  properly.
 
  2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause
  death in someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be
  sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may
  induce a immune response.
 
  3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an
  MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be
  understandable.
 
  4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal
  malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could
  easily do federal time.
 
  Best Regards,
 
  Jason
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
  Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
 
 
   Hi Catherine,
  
   I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If
   deionized
  or
   distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is
   it
 not
  a
   no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial
   protocol?
  It
   seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if
   the patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.
   It also
  seems
   to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost
   immediately
  which
   would be the definitive answer.  If one used a mix of standard CS
   which
 is
   normally composed of 70-90% ions and the remainder being colloids,
   it
  would
   cover the bases of which is effective since both would be
   circulating in
  the
   system.  It wouldn't matter which did the job of they were to see a
  decrease
   in viral load and/or the patient responded favorably.
  
   Mikes idea of using predominantly ionic silver which his process
   seems
 to
   produce doesn't carry as much weight with me as he seems to think it
 does.
   An ion is an ion and the ions he produces cannot be any different
   than
 an
   ion any device produces.  The major difference can only be the ratio
   of
  ions
   to particles and the size of the particles.  If the mix is made
   using a
  good
   process, it will always be crystal clear indicating the colloids are
  within
   the small range of being colorless.
  
   As Bob Lee once pointed out there are about 1.41252 X 10+18 atoms in
   one teaspoon of CS made to 20+ PPM.  I would think it wouldn't take
   too much
  in
   an intravenous solution to see some dramatic results.
  
   And let's remember

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Robert Berger]

Mike,

Why don't you stop beating around the bush and send a sample of each of
your CS process's to natural-immunogenics and spend the $150.00 dollars and
learn the truth.

You can talk or write all day long about your calculations and process
timing and equipment accuracy but without the TEM's you are just whistling
Dixie.

Sorry, Been there and done that several times. My 320 micro amp/sqin  35
volt LVDC is sub-nanometer to 28 nano-meter in size


Ole Bob




--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Robert Berger]

Hi Mike D.

Without TEM's the talk is useless

Ole Bob




--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[edkas...@pacbell]

Was that the reason why junkies would shpoot ice water into their veins?

ed

-Original Message-
From: Jason Eaton [mailto:ey...@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:04 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
Redux


Trem:

There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:

1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock leading to
death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared properly.

2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause death in
someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be sterile, it
cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may induce a immune
response.

3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an MD
does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be
understandable.

4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal
malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could
easily do federal time.

Best Regards,

Jason


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60396.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: Robert Berger
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:35:30

   Mike,

   Why don't you stop beating around the bush and send a  sample of
   each of  your CS process's to natural-immunogenics  and  spend the
   $150.00 dollars and learn the truth.

   You can  talk  or write all day long about  your  calculations and
   process timing  and equipment accuracy but without  the  TEM's you
   are just whistling Dixie.

   Sorry, Been  there  and  done that  several  times.  My  320 micro
   amp/sqin 35  volt  LVDC  is   sub-nanometer  to  28  nano-meter in
   size

   Ole Bob

  Bob,

  At 320 uA/sq. in., you are certainly headed in the right direction.

  Why don't  you  make  some 60 ppm at  that  current  density without
  stirring and let it sit.

  See if it matches Marv's description after six weeks:

This first  batch of LVDC CS has a light gray tint to it,  but is
otherwise clear. While it was brewing, I had no clue where  it was
re: PPM. It has been about six weeks since I stopped  the process.
So far, its appearance is unchanged . . . .

  Here is a picture of the gunk on the cathode at 60 ppm:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/misc/2ece54fc.jpg

  As you can see, the anode is pretty clean.

  From Marv's description of the salt test, his new Hanna PWT seems to
  be calibrated correctly:

By the  way,  re: the salt test that you  recommend,  I  poured a
little into  a glass (1.5), and hit it with a few  shakes  of sea
salt. It  responded with a bluish tint on its way to a  white cast
that was no longer transparent. Like watered-down skim milk.

  http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60213.html

  Please do the salt test at 60 ppm and tell us what you get.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Arnold Beland]

From Frank Key's post on 22 Mar 2001:

TEM observation of non-ionic solutions are widely accepted. However,
when
highly ionic solutions are the subject of observation, compound
formation so
alters the observation that the results are meaningless (in my
opinion). I
have explained why the formation of compounds during the sample
preparation
becomes significant.

My explanations and rational are clearly stated on my web site in the
FAQ and
Definition of Terms as they have been in these list postings.

Clearly you reject this because of your vested interest in your TEM.

I feel that further discussion on this subject is beating a dead
horse. Let
the readers who are interested weigh the evidence and decide for them
selves.


frank key

I think his point was well made.
Arnold

- Original Message - 
From: Robert Berger bober...@swbell.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Hi Mike D.

 Without TEM's the talk is useless

 Ole Bob




 --
 The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal
silver.

 Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at:
http://silverlist.org

 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

 Silver-list archive:
http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

 List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[jrowland]

 I may have missed it, but, Mike [M.], have you had analyses done yet to
 determine the ionic/particulate ratio and total silver concentration?
 What say the assembled masses?---Mike D.

 Without TEM's the talk is useless---Ole Bob

 Let the readers who are interested weigh the evidence and decide for 
 themselves.
 ---Frank

 I think his [Frank's] point was well made.
 ---Arnold

I, too, am put off by Mike M.'s claims of formulatory superiority
while
conveniently refusing Ole Bob's offer of a free analysis.
Why?
jr


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[James Holmes]

Hi Marshall,

I agree.  The organs were loaded.  I don't think the report spoke of
vascular occlusion tho, but I have only read a synopsis. 

A silver colloid will be excreted too, according to our friend and former
list participant Roger Altman's study [with a population of one, himself].
Metallic silver will probably not be excreted. 

When you calculate the amount of water you would have to drink to get a dose
of 3.8 grams, with 10 ppm sol,  the water will be toxic before the silver. 

Should the need arise I would not hesitate to self-administer via IV the
silver that I make.  How much bacteria can fall in during the brief time
that I pour the DW or before I put the lid on the generator?  Not enough to
Herx.   And there will certainly be no live ones there. 

Got 4 million?  Then you can prove that CS is not pyrogenic and get it FDA
approved. 


JOH

-Original Message-
From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@execonn.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:31 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



I don't see how injecting fine metal power of any kind has any relation to
the amount of that metal being toxic.  I would think that metal power would
very effectively block up the blood vessels, and once you block the vessels
to the brain or heart death would certainly follow. Toxcitiy could be
totally different for a colloid, or compound.

Marshall

James Holmes wrote:

 Please note folk,  3.8 g. Is the TOXIC dose, NOT the lethal dose.  
 Dogs (don't remember the weight) were killed with 1 gram of fine metal 
 powder injected.  Not intentionally; they were trying to create a 
 blood problem to study. It is in John Hill's book. Who would ever want 
 to get anywhere that, and how could you do it even if 10 times the 
 required dose was administered?

 -Original Message-
 From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com]
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:19 PM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
 Redux

 Hi Jason,

 As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing out 
 the reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer and 
 not a physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd probably 
 try it since the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't 
 tried.  Too bad they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.  
 That would produce some definitive results just as trying it on a 
 human would.

 The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled 
 water poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It would 
 be pure by definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it 
 that a small amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?  
 I don't think so since it is used in injections all the time.

 What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled water?

 Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using 
 it.  But as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm 
 talking about using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.

 Regards,

 Trem

 - Original Message -
 From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
 Redux

  Trem:
 
  There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
 
  1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock 
  leading
 to
  death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared 
  properly.
 
  2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause 
  death in someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol 
  be sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may 
  induce a immune response.
 
  3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If 
  an MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly 
  be understandable.
 
  4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute 
  criminal malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper 
  justification could easily do federal time.
 
  Best Regards,
 
  Jason
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
  Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS 
  Redux
 
 
   Hi Catherine,
  
   I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If 
   deionized
  or
   distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is 
   it
 not
  a
   no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial 
   protocol?
  It
   seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if 
   the patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly. 
   It also
  seems
   to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost 
   immediately
  which
   would be the definitive answer.  If one

Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Acmeair]

hasn't there been posts to this list, describing the use of CS, in IV
protocols, in europe???

jim

- Original Message -
From: James Holmes ami...@starband.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:03 AM
Subject: RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Hi Marshall,

 I agree.  The organs were loaded.  I don't think the report spoke of
 vascular occlusion tho, but I have only read a synopsis.

 A silver colloid will be excreted too, according to our friend and former
 list participant Roger Altman's study [with a population of one, himself].
 Metallic silver will probably not be excreted.

 When you calculate the amount of water you would have to drink to get a
dose
 of 3.8 grams, with 10 ppm sol,  the water will be toxic before the silver.

 Should the need arise I would not hesitate to self-administer via IV the
 silver that I make.  How much bacteria can fall in during the brief time
 that I pour the DW or before I put the lid on the generator?  Not enough
to
 Herx.   And there will certainly be no live ones there.

 Got 4 million?  Then you can prove that CS is not pyrogenic and get it FDA
 approved.


 JOH

 -Original Message-
 From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@execonn.com]
 Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:31 AM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



 I don't see how injecting fine metal power of any kind has any relation to
 the amount of that metal being toxic.  I would think that metal power
would
 very effectively block up the blood vessels, and once you block the
vessels
 to the brain or heart death would certainly follow. Toxcitiy could be
 totally different for a colloid, or compound.

 Marshall

 James Holmes wrote:

  Please note folk,  3.8 g. Is the TOXIC dose, NOT the lethal dose.
  Dogs (don't remember the weight) were killed with 1 gram of fine metal
  powder injected.  Not intentionally; they were trying to create a
  blood problem to study. It is in John Hill's book. Who would ever want
  to get anywhere that, and how could you do it even if 10 times the
  required dose was administered?
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:19 PM
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
  Redux
 
  Hi Jason,
 
  As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing out
  the reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer and
  not a physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd probably
  try it since the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't
  tried.  Too bad they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.
  That would produce some definitive results just as trying it on a
  human would.
 
  The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled
  water poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It would
  be pure by definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it
  that a small amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?
  I don't think so since it is used in injections all the time.
 
  What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled water?
 
  Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using
  it.  But as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm
  talking about using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.
 
  Regards,
 
  Trem
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
  Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
  Redux
 
   Trem:
  
   There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
  
   1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock
   leading
  to
   death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared
   properly.
  
   2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause
   death in someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol
   be sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may
   induce a immune response.
  
   3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If
   an MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly
   be understandable.
  
   4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute
   criminal malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper
   justification could easily do federal time.
  
   Best Regards,
  
   Jason
  
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
   To: silver-list@eskimo.com
   Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
   Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS
   Redux
  
  
Hi Catherine,
   
I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If
deionized
   or
distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why

CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60406.html
CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: jrowland
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:02:32

  [...]

   I, too,  am  put   off   by   Mike   M.'s  claims  of formulatory
   superiority while conveniently refusing Ole Bob's offer of a free
   analysis.

   Why?

   jr

  I'm not claiming formulatory superiority. I'm showing the  cs made
  at 87 uA/sq. in. gives better results on viruses than the cs  I made
  at 1.4 mA/sq. in.

  There is no need to send anyone any samples. Most people can make it
  themself. I suggested Bob do this.

  Unfortunately, he calculates his current density using a large plate
  anode. His  cathode  is  a small rod. The  current  density  is much
  higher, and  I don't think he will get the same results, sock  or no
  sock.

  As far as sending him I don't trust Bob's spectrograph results. They
  indicate his  silver  content  is three  times  higher  than  can be
  obtained using  Bob  Lee's   calculations  of  Faradays electrolysis
  equations:

   I make  2  gallons  of 30 to 40 true PPM  using  35  volts  with a
   regulator set  to  turn on at 12.6 ma or  320  microamps  /sqin of
   anode Time,  five  hours, and this is were  I  shut  down. Crystal
   clear sub nano in size, and stays that way!

  However, Faradays  equations showed the maximum possible is  only 12
  ppm:

  http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60056.html

  This is a rather large discrepancy that Bob has not explained.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Acmeair]

i apologize for not cleaning up the first response. a waste of time and
space for not doing it. it's even one of my pet peaves, mea culpa!!!
jim

- Original Message -
From: Acmeair res00...@gte.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 hasn't there been posts to this list, describing the use of CS, in IV
 protocols, in europe???

 jim

 - Original Message -
 From: James Holmes ami...@starband.net
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:03 AM
 Subject: RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


  Hi Marshall,
 
  I agree.  The organs were loaded.  I don't think the report spoke of
  vascular occlusion tho, but I have only read a synopsis.
 
  A silver colloid will be excreted too, according to our friend and
former
  list participant Roger Altman's study [with a population of one,
himself].
  Metallic silver will probably not be excreted.
 
  When you calculate the amount of water you would have to drink to get a
 dose
  of 3.8 grams, with 10 ppm sol,  the water will be toxic before the
silver.
 
  Should the need arise I would not hesitate to self-administer via IV the
  silver that I make.  How much bacteria can fall in during the brief time
  that I pour the DW or before I put the lid on the generator?  Not enough
 to
  Herx.   And there will certainly be no live ones there.
 
  Got 4 million?  Then you can prove that CS is not pyrogenic and get it
FDA
  approved.
 
 
  JOH



--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60412.html
CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: Mike Monett
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:18:36

  [...]

   I, too,  am  put   off   by   Mike   M.'s  claims  of formulatory
   superiority while conveniently refusing Ole Bob's offer of a free
   analysis.

   Why?

   jr

Sorry, wrong link. It should have been

  url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

Same result. Bob's ppm results are three times greater than the 
theoretical maximum.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Robert Berger]

Mike et al.

What I want to know is how the 60 PPM CS was measured?

I will not accept a PWT as valid, only an ISE test or Spect. test will do!

Is funny but I never clean the anode as it only has a faint tarnish on it.

Ole Bob




--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60406.html
CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: jrowland
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:02:32

  [...]

   I, too,  am  put   off   by   Mike   M.'s  claims  of formulatory
   superiority while conveniently refusing Ole Bob's offer of a free
   analysis.

   Why?

   jr

  Again, Sorry. This is not my day for links.

  url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60049.html

  Same result.  Bob's  results   are   three  times  greater  than the
  theoretical maximum.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Robert Berger]

Mike,

I don't have to explain anything!

The results of my spect. testing has been crossed checked with James Holman,
Dr. Bruce Marx, Stephen Quinto, Lin Kimball.,  the univ. of Mo at Rolla,
Mo., and your god, Frank Key, as reported on his e-mail to me and Roger
Altman
when we were running a double blind study on CS.

Frank's test showed total silver at 10.915 ppm +/- 0.005, and ionic silver
at 10.860 ppm +/- 0.005. the conductivity was 102.5 uS/cm. (21 Oct. 2001)
This material was HVAC ARC with CO2 as shown on my web site. with a ppm
range from 12 to 15 ppm. I do not know which batch of CS he received.

NOW PROVE TO ME THAT YOUR CALCULATIONS ARE CORRECT BY HAVING SOME REPUTABLE
LAB CHECK YOU MATERIAL. Since my protocol is suspect!!!

The above are my tail feathers, what are yours!!!

Ole Bob


Mike Monett wrote:

 url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60406.html
 CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
 From: jrowland
 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:02:32

   [...]

I, too,  am  put   off   by   Mike   M.'s  claims  of formulatory
superiority while conveniently refusing Ole Bob's offer of a free
analysis.

Why?

jr

   I'm not claiming formulatory superiority. I'm showing the  cs made
   at 87 uA/sq. in. gives better results on viruses than the cs  I made
   at 1.4 mA/sq. in.

   There is no need to send anyone any samples. Most people can make it
   themself. I suggested Bob do this.

   Unfortunately, he calculates his current density using a large plate
   anode. His  cathode  is  a small rod. The  current  density  is much
   higher, and  I don't think he will get the same results, sock  or no
   sock.

   As far as sending him I don't trust Bob's spectrograph results. They
   indicate his  silver  content  is three  times  higher  than  can be
   obtained using  Bob  Lee's   calculations  of  Faradays electrolysis
   equations:

I make  2  gallons  of 30 to 40 true PPM  using  35  volts  with a
regulator set  to  turn on at 12.6 ma or  320  microamps  /sqin of
anode Time,  five  hours, and this is were  I  shut  down. Crystal
clear sub nano in size, and stays that way!

   However, Faradays  equations showed the maximum possible is  only 12
   ppm:

   http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60056.html

   This is a rather large discrepancy that Bob has not explained.

 Best Regards,

 Mike Monett

 --
 The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

 Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

 Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

 List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60414.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: Robert Berger
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:05:01

   Mike,

   I don't have to explain anything!

   The results  of  my spect. testing has been  crossed  checked with
   James Holman,  Dr. Bruce Marx, Stephen Quinto,  Lin  Kimball., the
   univ. of Mo at Rolla, Mo., and your god, Frank Key, as reported on
   his e-mail  to me and Roger Altman when we were  running  a double
   blind study on CS.

  [...]

   NOW PROVE TO ME THAT YOUR CALCULATIONS ARE CORRECT BY  HAVING SOME
   REPUTABLE LAB CHECK YOU MATERIAL. Since my protocol is suspect!!!

   The above are my tail feathers, what are yours!!!

   Ole Bob

  Bob, I'm  sure everyone has great credentials. But can  they compare
  with Faraday's?

  But that  really isn't the important point. What counts  is  can the
  process be duplicated.

  You can  make the same cs. Use 3 feet of 12 ga cut in  half  for the
  anode and cathode. This will give about 3.8 square inches  of wetted
  area.

  Put it  in 425 millitres of medium quality dw and run it  at  335 uA
  for 6 hours.

  Tell us what you measure.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60387.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: M. G. Devour
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 04:27:53

   I may have missed it, but, Mike, have you had analyses done yet to
   determinethe   ionic/particulate   ratio   and   total  silver
   concentration?

  Mike,

  Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.

  No, I have not sent anything to a lab. I agree with Ken:

Welcome to the wonderful world of infallable science where no two
labs can agree on anything and no two processes even come close.

A PWT  only reads ions for sure...maybe correctly and  maybe not.
Depends on what lab results you compare the readings to.

http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60223.html

  However, I have asked Robert to make the same thing and let  us know
  his results.

  In the  final analysis, what we are looking for  is  consistency and
  repeatability.

  Three feet  of 12 ga wire cut in half should give  about  3.8 square
  inches of wetted area for the anode and cathode. I run at 335 uA, so
  the current density is around 87 uA/sq. in.

  With medium  quality dw, a current regulator would be  nice,  but is
  not needed.  A simple resistor to 12 Volts or  more  should regulate
  the current  to 20% or better. This is good enough.  It  will repeat
  the same curve as long as the dw is the same.

  If we use 1/2 litre of water or so, all we need is to  calculate the
  time needed to reach a target ppm.

  Here's the  equations  and results for 425 millilitres of  dw  on my
  system:

  I   = 335e-6  ; current in Amperes
  k   = 107.88 / 96500  ; electrochemical equivalent of silver
  lt  = 0.425   ; liters
  ppm = 20  ; desired ppm

  C   = I * sec ; Coulombs
  gm  = lt * ppm / 1000 ; grams of silver deposited
  sec = (lt * ppm) / (1000 * k * I)
  hrs = sec / 3600

  Solution

  I   = +0.000335000
  k   = +0.0011179274611
  lt  = +0.42500
  ppm = +20.
  C   = +7.6033555802744
  sec = +22696.583821714
  gm  = +0.00850
  hrs = +6.3046066171429

  Six hours  might seem a long time compared to current  practise, but
  as long  as  the production rate exceeds  the  consumption  rate, it
  really doesn't matter how long it takes. If you only need a mouthful
  every three or four days, 1/2 litre should serve a small  family for
  a week.

  One advantage of the long brew time is you don't have to worry about
  going shopping  and  returning an hour late. The cs  will  be  a bit
  stronger, but  you  won't  have to throw it out  as  you  would with
  higher current densities.

  Very little  black crud is deposited on the electrodes. I get  a bit
  on the  anode and none on the cathode. The cs is crystal  clear, and
  nothing plates out on the glass containing it. So you don't  have to
  spend time cleaning with H2O2.

  The salt  test is excellent confirmation of the  strength.  From the
  dissociation of salt in water:

NaCl(s) + H2O ---gt; Na(+)(aq) + Cl(-)(aq)

  A silver ion reacts with a chlorine ion to form silver chloride:

Ag(+)(aq) + Cl(-)(aq) ---gt; AgCl(s)

  The silver chloride is insoluble in water and precipitates out  as a
  white solid.  This creates a dispersion that indicates  the strength
  of the cs. At 20 ppm calculated, the effect is quite strong.

  So, anyone  with  a dvm and some salt should  be  able  to duplicate
  these results fairly well.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60416.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: Robert Berger
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:28:57

   Mike et al.

   What I want to know is how the 60 PPM CS was measured?

   I will not accept a PWT as valid, only an ISE test or  Spect. test
   will do!

   Is funny  but  I  never clean the anode as  it  only  has  a faint
   tarnish on it.

   Ole Bob

  The ppm  was measured with a new Hannna. It corresponds  fairly well
  with the salt test.

  In the  final analysis, all methods should give the same  results to
  within experimental error. Your tests are very complicated and there
  is plenty of room for error. A factor of three or four is a long way
  off from the theoretical maximum.

  On the anode residue, I believe you use stirring.

  This process uses no stirring.

  It should take less than an hour to set up.

  Make history, Bob. Let us know your results!

  I'll be off the list for a while. Got to catch up with some work.

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Robert Berger]

Mike,

Look at my data plot. I don't run 335 uA continually. The current starts out
at 2.64 ma or 66 uA/sqin. and builds until the regualto cuts in at 12.6 ma.
running in 2 gallons of 4 ppm CS. This was a reprocessed lot as stated.

I guess I could order in the silver for this experiment. I'll think about
it.

Ole Bob



--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[colloidal . silver]

Ok ...

Here's a link to water poisoning Q/A's...
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/42/1671_51282.htm
So too much injected in the arteries  veins etc... could cause similar
problems...

Now as for committing Cepu-Cu with C.S., well I Own and use one of Trem's
SG-7's... It makes terrific C.S. with very small particle size,  a
resultant very high surface area... I consistently set the generator to
produce batches of C.S. with a 15ppm conductivity reading That's
15-milligrams per. liter of distilled water... 15 milligrams is 15 x 1/1000
of 1-gram of ionic silver particles per. liter of distilled water... Since
it takes 3.8 grams = 3800 milligrams of elemental silver to commit Cepu-Cu,
then I will need to drink ((253) 1-liter bottles = @ 67 U.S.Gal. of C.S.),
pretty much, all at once, in order to cross over, and meet my maker...
H Any one here think they can drink that much ?? Try
Valiums  Booze, that should be a bit easier...

Talk about a Drinking Problem

Regards,
Alexander



- Original Message -
From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Hi Jason,

 As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing out the
 reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer and not a
 physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd probably try it
since
 the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't tried.  Too bad
 they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.  That would produce
some
 definitive results just as trying it on a human would.

 The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled water
 poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It would be pure
by
 definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it that a small
 amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?  I don't think so
 since it is used in injections all the time.

 What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled water?

 Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using it.
But
 as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm talking about
 using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.

 Regards,

 Trem

 - Original Message -
 From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


  Trem:
 
  There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
 
  1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock
leading
 to
  death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared properly.
 
  2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause death
in
  someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be sterile, it
  cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may induce a immune
  response.
 
  3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an MD
  does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be
  understandable.
 
  4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal
  malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could
  easily do federal time.
 
  Best Regards,
 
  Jason
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
  Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
 
 
   Hi Catherine,
  
   I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If
deionized
  or
   distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is it
 not
  a
   no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial
protocol?
  It
   seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if the
   patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.  It also
  seems
   to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost immediately
  which
   would be the definitive answer.  If one used a mix of standard CS
which
 is
   normally composed of 70-90% ions and the remainder being colloids, it
  would
   cover the bases of which is effective since both would be circulating
in
  the
   system.  It wouldn't matter which did the job of they were to see a
  decrease
   in viral load and/or the patient responded favorably.
  
   Mikes idea of using predominantly ionic silver which his process seems
 to
   produce doesn't carry as much weight with me as he seems to think it
 does.
   An ion is an ion and the ions he produces cannot be any different than
 an
   ion any device produces.  The major difference can only be the ratio
of
  ions
   to particles and the size of the particles.  If the mix is made using
a
  good
   process, it will always be crystal clear indicating the colloids are
  within
   the small range of being colorless.
  
   As Bob Lee once pointed

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Jonathan B. Britten]

The information below is very interesting indeed.  However, I can not
help but wonder whether the apparently higher efficacy of the new-method
CS was in fact merely coincidental,  a result of the new CS being taken
at a time when the virus was vulnerable,  and further at a time
following the use of ordinary CS which had rendered the virus much
weaker.  

From the information provided,  it seems difficult to exclude this
possibility.  If there is a way to exclude this interpretation, it would
be good to know.   


JBB




Mike Monett wrote:
 
 url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60357.html
 Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
 From: C Creel
 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:32:04
 
Dear Mike,
 
   [...]
 
I became involved with this group and actually had the opportunity
to present  CS to them during a conference call. At that  time, my
thoughts were running along the lines of nebulizing.
 
Since then,  they've considered oral (very difficult  because most
patients are  too ill to drink) and IV. They are  really skeptical
about the  latter  because I can't  produce  enough  material that
speaks of efficacy with this.
 
Thanks for your input, Mike.
 
Regards,
Catherine
 
   Perhaps this may help give some more documentation that is needed.
 
   I was  in  a  severe mold  environment  that  compromised  my immune
   system. Previous  to this, I never had reason to visit  doctors, was
   never hospitalized, and any injury healed very quickly.
 
   It took a long time to realize the effects the mold was having on my
   body. By then it was too late.
 
   One of the effects is I got Shingles.
 
   Shingles is  due  to the chickenpox virus eveyone  has  as  a child.
   Medicine has  no cure against it. The remedies that  are recommended
   have serious side effects.
 
   About 20  percent of the population of my age gets Shingles,  but it
   is unheard  of in my family. I am the only one  to  have experienced
   it.
 
   I started  taking  cs  as soon as I found what it  was.  I  posted a
   detailed report (warning - unpleasant photos)
 
 http://www.geocities.com/mrmonett/shingles/0shin.htm
 
   (Since then, Yahoo bought Geocities and my password no longer works.
   I cannot update that page.)
 
   The cs  that I made was effective against the Shingles. But  it came
   back.
 
   This is  not   unusual,   especially   when   the  immune  system is
   compromised.
 
   The cs  that I made according to the specifications on  my  web page
   no longer had any effect.
 
   I increased the dosage by increasing the brew time to 1 hr,  then to
   1.5 hr. The Shingles remained. The scabs would not go away,  and the
   infection sites were very painful.
 
   In conjunction with another project, I tried three different methods
   of stirring.  My  motivation was to reduce the  need  for constantly
   cleaning the electrodes and the the glass that held the cs.
 
   To my surprise, the Shingles got worse. The scabs  started bleeding,
   which never happened before, and the cavities in my teeth  hurt much
   sooner. This  cs lasted only several hours before  another  dose was
   needed.
 
   A friend who moved in with me around the same time reported the same
   result on  her cavities. Stirring did not work for her either,  so I
   abandoned stirring.
 
   However, her  family lives in Moldavia. She knew what  cs  could do,
   and she wanted to send a cs generator to her brother.
 
   The 160VDC system described on my web page would not be  suitable. I
   started looking for a simple low voltage system, perhaps running off
   a single 9V battery.
 
   If it could be made to work, there are many ways to get power. A 12V
   car battery  would work, a standard Wallwart power  supply,  or even
   used 1.5V  alkalines from a boombox. I posted my goals to  the list,
   then started working on the problem on a Thursday.
 
   The challenge  was  to  figure   out   how  to  get  enough Coulombs
   transferred from a low voltage supply in a reasonable time.
 
   The solution  was to increase the wetted area by folding  the  12 ga
   wire into  a  W,  then finding  the  series  resistance  needed to
   approximate a constant current source. I can show the  equations and
   derivations needed  in a separate post, but it is  not  important to
   this topic.
 
   I made  a  great  deal of black and  gray  sludge  that  weekend. By
   Monday, I  finally figured out what was happening with the  mist and
   the invisible ion cloud. My interpretation of the ion  cloud density
   is posted in other ULVDC threads.
 
   But the astonishing thing was the first trial of the new cs.
 
   I am  sceptical  of  anything new, and did not  gulp  it  down  as I
   normally do. The first test was only a mouthfull on that Monday.
 
   The following  Wednesday,  the  Shingles   scabs  fell  off.  I have
   reported this in other ULVDC posts.
 
   I cannot tell you how surprised I was.
 
   Now

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Lew FH]

 
 C Creel wrote:


I think you need to be talking to the people who are on the frontlines
of this ...Nebulizing is how they feel a number of health care practitioners 
ended up
with SARS.

When there is the will and desire, there is always a way.  This is an 
open-minded
forum  for health-care. Those in the frontlines battling SARS  are welcome to 
share and to
learn. It is open University with all of us students of Ageless Wisdom.

With regards
Lew

- Original Message -

DATE: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:35:39
From: C Creel ccr...@adelphia.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Cc: 

JR wrote:

 Are you suggesting nebulizing for SARS or not?


  FH Lew responded:


The anwser is YES.However, it must be remembered that Experimental
Research in NO has shown that one-third are non-responders.


, Lew.
Nebulizing is how they feel a number of health care practitioners ended up
with SARS.
This information is from an interdisciplinary group all of whom have been
working directly with SARS patients.  Any one of us can sit here and
speculate but until we've  dealt with it as they have, I have to defer to
them on the issue of transmission.

  Regards,
Catherine


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com






Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail!
http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[C Creel]

Dear Lew,


  I said:

  I think you need to be talking to the people who are on the frontlines
of this ...Nebulizing is how they feel a number of health care practitioners
ended up
with SARS.



You replied:

When there is the will and desire, there is always a way.  This is
an open-minded
forum  for health-care. Those in the frontlines battling SARS  are welcome
to share and to
learn. It is open University with all of us students of Ageless Wisdom.


   **  I think you know I have a great deal of respect for your work.  I've
mentioned this more than once on another list to which we both belong.  But
I think if you are to make a suggestion like NO and insist it CAN be done,
the onus of responsibility is on you to explain how given what we already
know about how nebulizing patients with SARS infected those who were
treating the patients.


  I've spent a little more than 2 months in daily contact with SARS Task
Force consisting of people who have tried many different things while
treating SARS.  The testing ground for these things were two hospitals - one
in Beijing and the other in Hong Kong.  Their experiences are valuable.
When they, who are working every day with patients formally diagnosed as
having SARS, and you have a hypothesis you've never really gotten to test in
a formally diagnosed SARS case, it's not difficult for me to decide who has
the more complete information.


I've never been one to accept the status quo, but there is something to
be said about learning from others' mistakes.


Most people who help others heal are very sincere and caring.  The
Universe supports these people as best as it can.  But sometimes there are
hard, cold facts we wish weren't there that require some thinking outside of
the box to get around them.


  For example, so many things work in vitro that don't work in vivo.  Right
now, NIH scientists find that licorice is disbling the SARS virus.  The
chances it will do this in vivo are quite slim.  But wouldn't it be grand if
it did?


  It would be grand if NO worked.  In theory it should.  It even stands a
good chance in practice -  but only if we can create another delivery system
that won't risk the lives of others.


  I'd be glad to introduce your idea to the SARS Task Force if you can come
up with an idea for a safe way of administering it.

Regards,
Catherine








--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[J S Campbell]

Hi Catherine, did you look at the paper below on intravenous Vit C for
treating polio and other viral diseases, in relation to SARS? Though  from
way back in 1948 it seems to me extremely interesting and potentially
relevant to SARS and other infections.I think it was referenced on this
site?
Very glad you and those like you are being able to bring a different
perspective to doctors looking at this problem, well done.

Best,

Sheila

www.orthomed.com/polio.htm

 -Original Message-
 From: C Creel [mailto:ccr...@adelphia.net]
 Sent: 18 June 2003 15:57
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Dear Lew,


   I said:

   I think you need to be talking to the people who are on the
 frontlines
 of this ...Nebulizing is how they feel a number of health care
 practitioners
 ended up
 with SARS.



 You replied:

 When there is the will and desire, there is always a
 way.  This is
 an open-minded
 forum  for health-care. Those in the frontlines battling SARS  are welcome
 to share and to
 learn. It is open University with all of us students of Ageless Wisdom.


**  I think you know I have a great deal of respect for your
 work.  I've
 mentioned this more than once on another list to which we both
 belong.  But
 I think if you are to make a suggestion like NO and insist it CAN be done,
 the onus of responsibility is on you to explain how given what we already
 know about how nebulizing patients with SARS infected those who were
 treating the patients.


   I've spent a little more than 2 months in daily contact with SARS Task
 Force consisting of people who have tried many different things while
 treating SARS.  The testing ground for these things were two
 hospitals - one
 in Beijing and the other in Hong Kong.  Their experiences are valuable.
 When they, who are working every day with patients formally diagnosed as
 having SARS, and you have a hypothesis you've never really gotten
 to test in
 a formally diagnosed SARS case, it's not difficult for me to
 decide who has
 the more complete information.


 I've never been one to accept the status quo, but there is
 something to
 be said about learning from others' mistakes.


 Most people who help others heal are very sincere and caring.  The
 Universe supports these people as best as it can.  But sometimes there are
 hard, cold facts we wish weren't there that require some thinking
 outside of
 the box to get around them.


   For example, so many things work in vitro that don't work in
 vivo.  Right
 now, NIH scientists find that licorice is disbling the SARS virus.  The
 chances it will do this in vivo are quite slim.  But wouldn't it
 be grand if
 it did?


   It would be grand if NO worked.  In theory it should.  It even stands a
 good chance in practice -  but only if we can create another
 delivery system
 that won't risk the lives of others.


   I'd be glad to introduce your idea to the SARS Task Force if
 you can come
 up with an idea for a safe way of administering it.

 Regards,
 Catherine








 --
 The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

 Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

 Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

 List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60344.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: C Creel
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:52:17

  [...]

   For example, so many things work in vitro that don't work in vivo.
   Right now, NIH scientists find that licorice is disbling  the SARS
   virus. The  chances  it will do this in vivo are  quite  slim. But
   wouldn't it be grand if it did?

   It would  be  grand  if NO worked. In theory  it  should.  It even
   stands a  good  chance  in practice - but only  if  we  can create
   another delivery system that won't risk the lives of others.

   I'd be  glad to introduce your idea to the SARS Task Force  if you
   can come up with an idea for a safe way of administering it.

   Regards,
   Catherine

  Catherine,

  Your caring shows in each letter of each word you write.

  A question: if they are willing to try licorice in vitro, would they
  be willing to try cs?

  I would  recommend  making  it at a current density  of  100  uA per
  square inch or less.

  I now  make  425  ml of 19 ppm calculated in 6  hrs  with  a current
  density of 87 uA per square inch. There is very little black deposit
  on the anode and none on the cathode.

  I find  this  much  more effective against  Shingles  and  cold sore
  viruses than  the cs I previously recommended to you made at  1.4 mA
  per square inch.

  Here are the equations:

  hrs = 6   ; hours
  mnt = 0   ; minutes
  I   = 335e-6  ; current in Amperes
  ml  = 425 ; milliliters
  x   = 1e6 * 107.87 / 96485; Faraday's electrolysis equation
  sec = hrs * 3600 + mnt * 60   ; seconds
  C   = I * sec ; coulombs
  ppm = x * C / ml  ; parts per million
  ppmhr = x * I * 3600 / ml ; ppm per hr

  Here are the results:

  Solution Variables:
  hrs  = +6.00
  mnt  =  0.00
  I= +0.000335
  ml   = +425.
  x= +1117.99761620977
  sec  = +21600.00
  C= +7.236000
  ppm  = +19.0348958844563
  ppmhr= +3.17248264740938

  Residuals and derived equations:

  { 0 }  hrs   = 6
  { 0 }  mnt   = 0
  { 0 }  I = 0.000335
  { 0 }  ml= 425
  { 0 }  x = 1117.99761620977
  { 0 }  sec   = 21600
  { 0 }  C = 7.236
  { 0 }  ppm   = 19.0348958844563
  { 0 }  ppmhr = 3.17248264740938

  Largest residual is 0
  Method: Exact
 
Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[jrowland]

 ...I now  make  425  ml of 19 ppm calculated...
As opposed to measured?  
jr


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[C Creel]

Dear Mike,


  You said:

Your caring shows in each letter of each word you write.

  A question: if they are willing to try licorice in vitro, would they
  be willing to try cs?

  I would  recommend  making  it at a current density  of  100  uA per
  square inch or less.


**Thank you :-)


  I became involved with this group and actually had the opportunity to
present CS to them during a conference call.  At that time, my thoughts were
running along the lines of nebulizing.

  Since then, they've considered oral (very difficult because most patients
are too ill to drink) and IV.  They are really skeptical about the latter
because I can't produce enough material that speaks of efficacy with this.

  Thanks for your input, Mike.

Regards,
Catherine



--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[James Holmes]

Hi CC, et al,

I don't know how the white coat priests will cotton to getting info from a
DC, but Dr. John Hill has written a book with basic information about CS.
It is dated, in some respects, but has lots of cites from papers published
in  journals during the 30's heyday of CS. A search of his name and
+colloidal silver will probably yield he book if it is still being sold.
It can be immediately downloaded with a CC. 


The route of administration was most often IV.  

JOH

-Original Message-
From: C Creel [mailto:ccr...@adelphia.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:37 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



Dear Mike,


  You said:

Your caring shows in each letter of each word you write.

  A question: if they are willing to try licorice in vitro, would they
  be willing to try cs?

  I would  recommend  making  it at a current density  of  100  uA per
  square inch or less.


**Thank you :-)


  I became involved with this group and actually had the opportunity to
present CS to them during a conference call.  At that time, my thoughts were
running along the lines of nebulizing.

  Since then, they've considered oral (very difficult because most patients
are too ill to drink) and IV.  They are really skeptical about the latter
because I can't produce enough material that speaks of efficacy with this.

  Thanks for your input, Mike.

Regards,
Catherine



--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[C Creel]

Dear James,


  You said:


I don't know how the white coat priests will cotton to getting info from a
DC, but Dr. John Hill has written a book with basic information about CS.
It is dated, in some respects, but has lots of cites from papers published
in  journals during the 30's heyday of CS. A search of his name and
+colloidal silver will probably yield he book if it is still being sold.
It can be immediately downloaded with a CC


  **  Thank you!


  Here it is.

Colloidal Silver: A Literature Review: Medical Uses, Toxicology 
Manufacture - Second Edition - By John Hill, D.C.
http://www.advance-health.com/silver.html


 Fantastic!  Thanks so much.

Regards,
Catherine


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[James Holmes]

Great:  I have somewhere the First Edition; it will be interesting to see
what he has come up with in the Second Edition.

Jim

-Original Message-
From: C Creel [mailto:ccr...@adelphia.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:02 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



Dear James,


  You said:


I don't know how the white coat priests will cotton to getting info from a
DC, but Dr. John Hill has written a book with basic information about CS. It
is dated, in some respects, but has lots of cites from papers published in
journals during the 30's heyday of CS. A search of his name and
+colloidal silver will probably yield he book if it is still being 
+sold.
It can be immediately downloaded with a CC


  **  Thank you!


  Here it is.

Colloidal Silver: A Literature Review: Medical Uses, Toxicology 
Manufacture - Second Edition - By John Hill, D.C.
http://www.advance-health.com/silver.html


 Fantastic!  Thanks so much.

Regards,
Catherine


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Trem]

Hi Catherine,

I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If deionized or
distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is it not a
no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial protocol?  It
seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if the
patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.  It also seems
to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost immediately which
would be the definitive answer.  If one used a mix of standard CS which is
normally composed of 70-90% ions and the remainder being colloids, it would
cover the bases of which is effective since both would be circulating in the
system.  It wouldn't matter which did the job of they were to see a decrease
in viral load and/or the patient responded favorably.

Mikes idea of using predominantly ionic silver which his process seems to
produce doesn't carry as much weight with me as he seems to think it does.
An ion is an ion and the ions he produces cannot be any different than an
ion any device produces.  The major difference can only be the ratio of ions
to particles and the size of the particles.  If the mix is made using a good
process, it will always be crystal clear indicating the colloids are within
the small range of being colorless.

As Bob Lee once pointed out there are about 1.41252 X 10+18 atoms in one
teaspoon of CS made to 20+ PPM.  I would think it wouldn't take too much in
an intravenous solution to see some dramatic results.

And let's remember, an IV of distilled water isn't going to do any damage so
why wouldn't someone try this just to see if it works?  Or as I said
earlier, is there something I missed.

Best regards,

Trem


   I became involved with this group and actually had the opportunity to
 present CS to them during a conference call.  At that time, my thoughts
were
 running along the lines of nebulizing.

   Since then, they've considered oral (very difficult because most
patients
 are too ill to drink) and IV.  They are really skeptical about the latter
 because I can't produce enough material that speaks of efficacy with this.

 Regards,
 Catherine



 --
 The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

 Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

 To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

 Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

 List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Jason Eaton]

Trem:

There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:

1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock leading to
death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared properly.

2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause death in
someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be sterile, it
cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may induce a immune
response.

3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an MD
does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be
understandable.

4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal
malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could
easily do federal time.

Best Regards,

Jason



- Original Message -
From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Hi Catherine,

 I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If deionized
or
 distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is it not
a
 no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial protocol?
It
 seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if the
 patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.  It also
seems
 to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost immediately
which
 would be the definitive answer.  If one used a mix of standard CS which is
 normally composed of 70-90% ions and the remainder being colloids, it
would
 cover the bases of which is effective since both would be circulating in
the
 system.  It wouldn't matter which did the job of they were to see a
decrease
 in viral load and/or the patient responded favorably.

 Mikes idea of using predominantly ionic silver which his process seems to
 produce doesn't carry as much weight with me as he seems to think it does.
 An ion is an ion and the ions he produces cannot be any different than an
 ion any device produces.  The major difference can only be the ratio of
ions
 to particles and the size of the particles.  If the mix is made using a
good
 process, it will always be crystal clear indicating the colloids are
within
 the small range of being colorless.

 As Bob Lee once pointed out there are about 1.41252 X 10+18 atoms in one
 teaspoon of CS made to 20+ PPM.  I would think it wouldn't take too much
in
 an intravenous solution to see some dramatic results.

 And let's remember, an IV of distilled water isn't going to do any damage
so
 why wouldn't someone try this just to see if it works?  Or as I said
 earlier, is there something I missed.

 Best regards,

 Trem

 
I became involved with this group and actually had the opportunity to
  present CS to them during a conference call.  At that time, my thoughts
 were
  running along the lines of nebulizing.
 
Since then, they've considered oral (very difficult because most
 patients
  are too ill to drink) and IV.  They are really skeptical about the
latter
  because I can't produce enough material that speaks of efficacy with
this.
 
  Regards,
  Catherine
 
 
 
  --
  The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
 
  Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org
 
  To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
 
  Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html
 
  List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
 
 
 
 

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60357.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: C Creel
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:32:04

   Dear Mike,

  [...]

   I became involved with this group and actually had the opportunity
   to present  CS to them during a conference call. At that  time, my
   thoughts were running along the lines of nebulizing.

   Since then,  they've considered oral (very difficult  because most
   patients are  too ill to drink) and IV. They are  really skeptical
   about the  latter  because I can't  produce  enough  material that
   speaks of efficacy with this.

   Thanks for your input, Mike.

   Regards,
   Catherine

  Perhaps this may help give some more documentation that is needed.

  I was  in  a  severe mold  environment  that  compromised  my immune
  system. Previous  to this, I never had reason to visit  doctors, was
  never hospitalized, and any injury healed very quickly.

  It took a long time to realize the effects the mold was having on my
  body. By then it was too late. 

  One of the effects is I got Shingles.

  Shingles is  due  to the chickenpox virus eveyone  has  as  a child.
  Medicine has  no cure against it. The remedies that  are recommended
  have serious side effects.

  About 20  percent of the population of my age gets Shingles,  but it
  is unheard  of in my family. I am the only one  to  have experienced
  it.

  I started  taking  cs  as soon as I found what it  was.  I  posted a
  detailed report (warning - unpleasant photos)

http://www.geocities.com/mrmonett/shingles/0shin.htm

  (Since then, Yahoo bought Geocities and my password no longer works.
  I cannot update that page.)

  The cs  that I made was effective against the Shingles. But  it came
  back.

  This is  not   unusual,   especially   when   the  immune  system is
  compromised.

  The cs  that I made according to the specifications on  my  web page
  no longer had any effect.

  I increased the dosage by increasing the brew time to 1 hr,  then to
  1.5 hr. The Shingles remained. The scabs would not go away,  and the
  infection sites were very painful.

  In conjunction with another project, I tried three different methods
  of stirring.  My  motivation was to reduce the  need  for constantly
  cleaning the electrodes and the the glass that held the cs.

  To my surprise, the Shingles got worse. The scabs  started bleeding,
  which never happened before, and the cavities in my teeth  hurt much
  sooner. This  cs lasted only several hours before  another  dose was
  needed.

  A friend who moved in with me around the same time reported the same
  result on  her cavities. Stirring did not work for her either,  so I
  abandoned stirring.

  However, her  family lives in Moldavia. She knew what  cs  could do,
  and she wanted to send a cs generator to her brother.

  The 160VDC system described on my web page would not be  suitable. I
  started looking for a simple low voltage system, perhaps running off
  a single 9V battery.

  If it could be made to work, there are many ways to get power. A 12V
  car battery  would work, a standard Wallwart power  supply,  or even
  used 1.5V  alkalines from a boombox. I posted my goals to  the list,
  then started working on the problem on a Thursday.

  The challenge  was  to  figure   out   how  to  get  enough Coulombs
  transferred from a low voltage supply in a reasonable time.

  The solution  was to increase the wetted area by folding  the  12 ga
  wire into  a  W,  then finding  the  series  resistance  needed to
  approximate a constant current source. I can show the  equations and
  derivations needed  in a separate post, but it is  not  important to
  this topic.

  I made  a  great  deal of black and  gray  sludge  that  weekend. By
  Monday, I  finally figured out what was happening with the  mist and
  the invisible ion cloud. My interpretation of the ion  cloud density
  is posted in other ULVDC threads.

  But the astonishing thing was the first trial of the new cs.

  I am  sceptical  of  anything new, and did not  gulp  it  down  as I
  normally do. The first test was only a mouthfull on that Monday.

  The following  Wednesday,  the  Shingles   scabs  fell  off.  I have
  reported this in other ULVDC posts.

  I cannot tell you how surprised I was.

  Now, the  Shingles  scabs  are gone, the  cavities  are  silent, and
  nobody has cold sores anymore.

  According to  references in a previous post, cold sores  are easiest
  to kill,  Herpes genital viruses are next, and Shingles  viruses are
  the most difficult. The cs made at 87 uA/sq. in killed the Shingles.

  If these  things  were  not true, and stirring  worked,  I  would be
  promoting stirring and analyzing which method worked the best.

  But none of these methods worked against the viruses we faced.  I do
  not know  why, and you know I am capable of  taking  accurate enough
  measurements of my process to tell if there was any change.

  I believe

Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Trem]

Hi Jason,

As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing out the
reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer and not a
physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd probably try it since
the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't tried.  Too bad
they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.  That would produce some
definitive results just as trying it on a human would.

The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled water
poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It would be pure by
definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it that a small
amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?  I don't think so
since it is used in injections all the time.

What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled water?

Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using it.  But
as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm talking about
using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.

Regards,

Trem

- Original Message -
From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Trem:

 There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:

 1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock leading
to
 death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared properly.

 2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause death in
 someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be sterile, it
 cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may induce a immune
 response.

 3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an MD
 does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be
 understandable.

 4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal
 malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could
 easily do federal time.

 Best Regards,

 Jason



 - Original Message -
 From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
 Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


  Hi Catherine,
 
  I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If deionized
 or
  distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is it
not
 a
  no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial protocol?
 It
  seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if the
  patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.  It also
 seems
  to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost immediately
 which
  would be the definitive answer.  If one used a mix of standard CS which
is
  normally composed of 70-90% ions and the remainder being colloids, it
 would
  cover the bases of which is effective since both would be circulating in
 the
  system.  It wouldn't matter which did the job of they were to see a
 decrease
  in viral load and/or the patient responded favorably.
 
  Mikes idea of using predominantly ionic silver which his process seems
to
  produce doesn't carry as much weight with me as he seems to think it
does.
  An ion is an ion and the ions he produces cannot be any different than
an
  ion any device produces.  The major difference can only be the ratio of
 ions
  to particles and the size of the particles.  If the mix is made using a
 good
  process, it will always be crystal clear indicating the colloids are
 within
  the small range of being colorless.
 
  As Bob Lee once pointed out there are about 1.41252 X 10+18 atoms in one
  teaspoon of CS made to 20+ PPM.  I would think it wouldn't take too much
 in
  an intravenous solution to see some dramatic results.
 
  And let's remember, an IV of distilled water isn't going to do any
damage
 so
  why wouldn't someone try this just to see if it works?  Or as I said
  earlier, is there something I missed.
 
  Best regards,
 
  Trem
 
  
 I became involved with this group and actually had the opportunity
to
   present CS to them during a conference call.  At that time, my
thoughts
  were
   running along the lines of nebulizing.
  
 Since then, they've considered oral (very difficult because most
  patients
   are too ill to drink) and IV.  They are really skeptical about the
 latter
   because I can't produce enough material that speaks of efficacy with
 this.
  
   Regards,
   Catherine
  
  
  
   --
   The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal
silver.
  
   Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org
  
   To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
  
   Silver-list archive:
http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html
  
   List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
  
  
  
  
 
 

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Hank]

Mike, I went to your page, I like what you have there. I have some space on 
some of my sites, May I put your page on one of them and give you the password 
so you can update it?
Sincerely Yours,
Hank
http://hdka.stormpages.com/indexf.html
http://www.babelmagazine.com/wing.html
http://members.myecom.net/hdka/ct/ct.html

http://www.geocities.com/mrmonett/shingles/0shin.htm

  (Since then, Yahoo bought Geocities and my password no longer works.
  I cannot update that page.)


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 6/10/03

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Trem]

Hi Mike,

Yes, I keep getting your message but apparently you don't get mine.  An ion
is an ion.  The only difference between any CS and what you make is the
ratio of ions to particulate and the particle size.  If you make 100% ionic
silver and I make 80% ionic and it is only the ions that do any good in the
body, then the mix I make would only be 80% as effective as yours.  And
since there is no reason to not take enough to do the job effectively, you
will never convince me that you can make any better ionic silver than anyone
else.  Just drink more of it no matter how it's made.  Of course it's best
to try to make the particulate portion of it be as small as possible in
order to get more particles in a given measure but that's only fine tuning
to me.

I believe your thinking is a bit clouded over the issue of your ions being
better than any made using a different current density since it happened to
work so well for you at the time.  And have you ever considered that the
shingles were on the way out when you hit them with the final amount of CS
made using your new method?

I had them too a few years ago and knocked it our with CS very quickly.  The
first time I had them I was given something by my Dr. ( Acyclovir I think)
and it took some time to get rid of it.  Second time I used CS and it didn't
even form any blisters and the pain was gone in a couple of days.

Regards,

Trem

- Original Message -
From: Mike Monett 3hg0lm...@sneakemail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60357.html
 Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
 From: C Creel
 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:32:04

Dear Mike,

   [...]

I became involved with this group and actually had the opportunity
to present  CS to them during a conference call. At that  time, my
thoughts were running along the lines of nebulizing.

Since then,  they've considered oral (very difficult  because most
patients are  too ill to drink) and IV. They are  really skeptical
about the  latter  because I can't  produce  enough  material that
speaks of efficacy with this.

Thanks for your input, Mike.

Regards,
Catherine

   Perhaps this may help give some more documentation that is needed.

   I was  in  a  severe mold  environment  that  compromised  my immune
   system. Previous  to this, I never had reason to visit  doctors, was
   never hospitalized, and any injury healed very quickly.

   It took a long time to realize the effects the mold was having on my
   body. By then it was too late.

   One of the effects is I got Shingles.

   Shingles is  due  to the chickenpox virus eveyone  has  as  a child.
   Medicine has  no cure against it. The remedies that  are recommended
   have serious side effects.

   About 20  percent of the population of my age gets Shingles,  but it
   is unheard  of in my family. I am the only one  to  have experienced
   it.

   I started  taking  cs  as soon as I found what it  was.  I  posted a
   detailed report (warning - unpleasant photos)

 http://www.geocities.com/mrmonett/shingles/0shin.htm

   (Since then, Yahoo bought Geocities and my password no longer works.
   I cannot update that page.)

   The cs  that I made was effective against the Shingles. But  it came
   back.

   This is  not   unusual,   especially   when   the  immune  system is
   compromised.

   The cs  that I made according to the specifications on  my  web page
   no longer had any effect.

   I increased the dosage by increasing the brew time to 1 hr,  then to
   1.5 hr. The Shingles remained. The scabs would not go away,  and the
   infection sites were very painful.

   In conjunction with another project, I tried three different methods
   of stirring.  My  motivation was to reduce the  need  for constantly
   cleaning the electrodes and the the glass that held the cs.

   To my surprise, the Shingles got worse. The scabs  started bleeding,
   which never happened before, and the cavities in my teeth  hurt much
   sooner. This  cs lasted only several hours before  another  dose was
   needed.

   A friend who moved in with me around the same time reported the same
   result on  her cavities. Stirring did not work for her either,  so I
   abandoned stirring.

   However, her  family lives in Moldavia. She knew what  cs  could do,
   and she wanted to send a cs generator to her brother.

   The 160VDC system described on my web page would not be  suitable. I
   started looking for a simple low voltage system, perhaps running off
   a single 9V battery.

   If it could be made to work, there are many ways to get power. A 12V
   car battery  would work, a standard Wallwart power  supply,  or even
   used 1.5V  alkalines from a boombox. I posted my goals to  the list,
   then started working on the problem on a Thursday.

   The challenge  was  to  figure   out   how  to  get

Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Jason Eaton]

Hi Trem:

It's a no-brainer for you and I truly.  We don't have medical licenses!

It's not that distilled water is toxic...  It's only a matter of shock.  If
a solution is not properly buffered when injected, the fluid changes can
cause shock.  If the distilled water were truly pure, and the drip done
properly, this would, I believe, be an exception and not the rule.  The PH
of the sol has to be precise.

A pyrogen is a substance that enduces an immune system response ( in
particular, it enduces a fever ) when used in the body...  I'm not certain
if the term is limited to IV injections only, but FDA standards specify
anything injected must be pyrogen and endotoxin free.

Endotoxin is bacterial cell matter ( I'm sure there's a better and more
official way to describe the term ).  It is not enough that a substance be
free of living bacteria, it must be free of all bacterial matter.  Even
small amounts of endotoxin injected directly into the blood stream can have
consequences.

This means that if the CS has come in contact with air, it is not likely to
be endotoxin free.

The reason these things are in place:  It's too easy to make a mistake
otherwise.  We should consider and learn the lesson that Hudson learned,
when he and an MD killed a person by injecting contaminated monoatomic gold
into a patient.

Best Regards,

Jason

- Original Message -
From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Hi Jason,

 As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing out the
 reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer and not a
 physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd probably try it
since
 the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't tried.  Too bad
 they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.  That would produce
some
 definitive results just as trying it on a human would.

 The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled water
 poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It would be pure
by
 definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it that a small
 amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?  I don't think so
 since it is used in injections all the time.

 What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled water?

 Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using it.
But
 as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm talking about
 using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.

 Regards,

 Trem

 - Original Message -
 From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
 Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


  Trem:
 
  There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:
 
  1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock
leading
 to
  death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared properly.
 
  2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause death
in
  someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be sterile, it
  cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may induce a immune
  response.
 
  3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an MD
  does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be
  understandable.
 
  4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal
  malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could
  easily do federal time.
 
  Best Regards,
 
  Jason
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
  Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
 
 
   Hi Catherine,
  
   I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If
deionized
  or
   distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is it
 not
  a
   no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial
protocol?
  It
   seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if the
   patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.  It also
  seems
   to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost immediately
  which
   would be the definitive answer.  If one used a mix of standard CS
which
 is
   normally composed of 70-90% ions and the remainder being colloids, it
  would
   cover the bases of which is effective since both would be circulating
in
  the
   system.  It wouldn't matter which did the job of they were to see a
  decrease
   in viral load and/or the patient responded favorably.
  
   Mikes idea of using predominantly ionic silver which his process seems
 to
   produce doesn't carry as much weight with me as he seems to think it
 does.
   An ion is an ion and the ions he produces cannot be any different

Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[C Creel]

Dear Trem,



  You said:

I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If deionized
or
distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is it not a
no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial protocol?


   **  It's because CS is such a foreign concept for them.  It makes them
apprehensive.

Regards,
Catherine


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60367.html
Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux
From: Jonathan B. Britten
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:26:27

   The information  below is very interesting indeed. However,  I can
   not help but wonder whether the apparently higher efficacy  of the
   new-method CS was in fact merely coincidental, a result of the new
   CS being  taken  at  a time when  the  virus  was  vulnerable, and
   further at  a  time following the use of ordinary  CS  which had
   rendered the virus much weaker.

   From the information provided, it seems difficult to  exclude this
   possibility. If there is a way to exclude this  interpretation, it
   would be good to know.

   JBB

  Hi Jonathan,

  I am  not  an doctor, and know little about medicine.  But  I  am an
  engineer, and I know a lot about making accurate measurements.

  I can confirm the current used to make the cs was constant to within
  +/-2.5%, depending on the line voltage.

  I can confirm the brew time was accurate to within  several seconds,
  depending on what my hands were doing when the timer went off.

  I can confirm the fill level was constant to within 1/8 of an inch.

  The dw was from Walmart. Not the best quality, but  very consistent.
  I measured  the  initial voltage for most runs  just  to  verify the
  quality, and  plotted  the  cv curve when I had  time.  There  is no
  reason to expect much variation in the cs.

  I made  8  oz each day. This was a religion.  Nothing  else happened
  until the  timer went off and I drank the cs, and my  normal morning
  coffee.

  The Shingles  attack was in October, 2001. The normal  cs  killed it
  very quickly.

  A low-level  infection  returned this January. It  was  in  the same
  general location, but a bit lower down.

  I made  no  change  in  my procedure of  making  cs,  except  to try
  stirring. It  did not work, the Shingles got worse, and I  went back
  to the normal cs. The Shingles returned to its previous level.

  Perhaps three weeks transpired, and things were pretty much  the same
  as before. Taking a shower produced the same level of pain.

  I got the idea to try to make a 9V generator, and posted the goal to
  the list. I got my first results on Monday, and posted to the list.

  The response  to  the new cs was so dramatic  and  sudden,  there is
  little to  account  for  it except  the  increased  concentration of
  silver ions.

  After discovering this, I changed to the new cs and started taking a
  mouthful every three or four days, instead of drinking 8 oz per day.

  There have been no tingling sensations indicating the start of a new
  Shingles infection,  no trace of any cold sore  infections,  no pain
  from cavities, and the teenager and her mother are  completely clear
  of any new infections.

  They both  had  been  taking the 1.4 mA/sq. in  cs  before,  but the
  teenager got a serious infection. This cleared up when I switched to
  the 87uA/sq.  in. cs and put him on a regime of  one  mouthful every
  two days.

  The indications  are  the same across the board. For all  of  us who
  take it, the new cs is much better than the old.

  Others will  have to try it and see how it works. I have  posted the
  necessary information in the ULVDC thread.

  I am not claiming magic or the phase of the moon.  My interpretation
  of the  effect of the density of the ion cloud on  the  formation of
  particles is well documented in the archives.

  An ion is an ion. The more of them, the better.
 
Best Regards,

Mike Monett


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[James Holmes]

Comments in Trem's text.  These speculations are offered as questions for
discussion, not assertions. 

-Original Message-
From: Jason Eaton [mailto:ey...@cox.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:04 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



Trem:

There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:

1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock leading to
death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared properly.

  JOH Why not add it to any electrolytes already being given or give Ringers
and CS?

Why not just make it isotonic with salt, if the volume is low enough
and prepared electrolyte solutions are not available?

2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause death in
someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be sterile, it
cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may induce a immune
response.  

JOH A product that is not pyrogen free, certified or not, can be
deadly. I  How do pyrogens 
1, get into carefully made batches of CS,
2. If pathogens are present, none have been demonstrated to survive
even concentrations as low  as 0.002 PPM (From distant memory,
check for yourself)  How will they survive 5 PPM and up?
Sterile equipment is a given. 

3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an MD
does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be
understandable.

JOH  I agree that to be a serious problem with advanced systemic
infection of an endotoxin type.  
Perhaps a protocol can be suggested based on the kill rates in broth
compared with the success against that organism in people.  Perhaps an
initially cautious beginning:  a very small amount by mouth leading up to
larger I V doses when the first kill debris has been processed.  It is
incredibly potent, and in dosages that are an order of magnitude or two,
below toxicity. 

4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal
malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could
easily do federal time.

JOH  Not only that, they might hurt somebody.  Don't doctors in
desperate situations have license to do whatever they think may help that
they are qualified to administer?  If not, by whom and for what purpose? 

If---big if, it could be practically demonstrated [That's not the same as
jumping through all the hoops] that SARS cannot live in 5-15 PPM CS, then
there would be no reason to not nebulize; any overspray will  help disinfect
the environment and all fomites it touches. 

Best Regards,

Jason



- Original Message -
From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Hi Catherine,

 I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If 
 deionized
or
 distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is it 
 not
a
 no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial 
 protocol?
It
 seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if the 
 patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.  It also
seems
 to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost immediately
which
 would be the definitive answer.  If one used a mix of standard CS 
 which is normally composed of 70-90% ions and the remainder being 
 colloids, it
would
 cover the bases of which is effective since both would be circulating 
 in
the
 system.  It wouldn't matter which did the job of they were to see a
decrease
 in viral load and/or the patient responded favorably.

 Mikes idea of using predominantly ionic silver which his process seems 
 to produce doesn't carry as much weight with me as he seems to think 
 it does. An ion is an ion and the ions he produces cannot be any 
 different than an ion any device produces.  The major difference can 
 only be the ratio of
ions
 to particles and the size of the particles.  If the mix is made using 
 a
good
 process, it will always be crystal clear indicating the colloids are
within
 the small range of being colorless.

 As Bob Lee once pointed out there are about 1.41252 X 10+18 atoms in 
 one teaspoon of CS made to 20+ PPM.  I would think it wouldn't take 
 too much
in
 an intravenous solution to see some dramatic results.

 And let's remember, an IV of distilled water isn't going to do any 
 damage
so
 why wouldn't someone try this just to see if it works?  Or as I said 
 earlier, is there something I missed.

 Best regards,

 Trem

 
I became involved with this group and actually had the opportunity 
  to present CS to them during a conference call.  At that time, my 
  thoughts
 were
  running along the lines of nebulizing.
 
Since then, they've considered oral (very difficult because most
 patients
  are too ill to drink) and IV

RE: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[James Holmes]

Please note folk,  3.8 g. Is the TOXIC dose, NOT the lethal dose.  Dogs
(don't remember the weight) were killed with 1 gram of fine metal powder
injected.  Not intentionally; they were trying to create a blood problem to
study. It is in John Hill's book. Who would ever want to get anywhere that,
and how could you do it even if 10 times the required dose was administered?

-Original Message-
From: Trem [mailto:t...@silvergen.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:19 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux



Hi Jason,

As I said earlieram I missing something.  Thanks for pointing out the
reason it isn't a no brainer.  Remember, I'm just a designer and not a
physician.  Although if it was an animal I owned, I'd probably try it since
the critter would probably be a goner if something wasn't tried.  Too bad
they don't have any animals with SARS to try it on.  That would produce some
definitive results just as trying it on a human would.

The thing in your post that bothers me is this.  Why is distilled water
poisonous if is composed of H20 and has no impurities?  It would be pure by
definition if distilled or deionized wouldn't it?  Or is it that a small
amount of water is too much for the body to assimilate?  I don't think so
since it is used in injections all the time.

What is a pyrogen?  And why would that be in properly distilled water?

Of course silver is incredibly potent.  That's the reason for using it.  But
as Jim just pointed out, the lethal dose is 3.8 grams.  I'm talking about
using tenths or hundredths of milligrams, not grams.

Regards,

Trem

- Original Message -
From: Jason Eaton ey...@cox.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


 Trem:

 There are quite a few factors you are not accounting for:

 1.  Distilled water injected into the bloodstream can cause shock 
 leading
to
 death.  The Sol must be titrated properly; it must be prepared 
 properly.

 2.  A product that is not certified pyrogen free can easily cause 
 death in someone who is already sick.  It is not enough that a sol be 
 sterile, it cannot have any endotoxin or any substances that may 
 induce a immune response.

 3.  Silver injected into the bloodstream is incredibly potent.  If an 
 MD does not have the experience in this, hesitation can certainly be 
 understandable.

 4.  Any of the above, if done by an MD, may easily constitute criminal 
 malpractice.  In the US, such an MD without proper justification could 
 easily do federal time.

 Best Regards,

 Jason



 - Original Message -
 From: Trem t...@silvergen.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:17 PM
 Subject: CSRe: [sillver_list] Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux


  Hi Catherine,
 
  I may be missing something here.  If so, please excuse me.  If 
  deionized
 or
  distilled water is used in injections and silver is benign, why is 
  it
not
 a
  no brainer to inject properly made CS intravenously as a trial 
  protocol?
 It
  seems that it would be immediately known to the casual observer if 
  the patient was getting any better since silver works so quickly.  
  It also
 seems
  to me the blood titer would show a decrease in SARS almost 
  immediately
 which
  would be the definitive answer.  If one used a mix of standard CS 
  which
is
  normally composed of 70-90% ions and the remainder being colloids, 
  it
 would
  cover the bases of which is effective since both would be 
  circulating in
 the
  system.  It wouldn't matter which did the job of they were to see a
 decrease
  in viral load and/or the patient responded favorably.
 
  Mikes idea of using predominantly ionic silver which his process 
  seems
to
  produce doesn't carry as much weight with me as he seems to think it
does.
  An ion is an ion and the ions he produces cannot be any different 
  than
an
  ion any device produces.  The major difference can only be the ratio 
  of
 ions
  to particles and the size of the particles.  If the mix is made 
  using a
 good
  process, it will always be crystal clear indicating the colloids are
 within
  the small range of being colorless.
 
  As Bob Lee once pointed out there are about 1.41252 X 10+18 atoms in 
  one teaspoon of CS made to 20+ PPM.  I would think it wouldn't take 
  too much
 in
  an intravenous solution to see some dramatic results.
 
  And let's remember, an IV of distilled water isn't going to do any
damage
 so
  why wouldn't someone try this just to see if it works?  Or as I said 
  earlier, is there something I missed.
 
  Best regards,
 
  Trem
 
  
 I became involved with this group and actually had the 
   opportunity
to
   present CS to them during a conference call.  At that time, my
thoughts
  were
   running along the lines of nebulizing.
  
 Since then, they've considered oral (very difficult because

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[Lew FH]

jr wrote:

 Are you suggesting nebulizing for SARS or not?


The anwser is YES.However, it must be remembered that Experimental Research in 
NO has shown that one-third are non-responders.



  POSITING: 

In nasal airways, continuous production of NO
- indicated by presence of gas in nasally derived air
- In Kartagener's syndrome, pts lack NO in nasal air  have severe problems 
with 
recurrent airway infection


 POSITING:

In this study, we identify the epithelium in paranasal sinuses as a major site 
of NO production and suggest a role for airway-derived NO in primary host 
defence.


 POSITING

# The concentration of NO in normal paranasal sinuses
; greatly exceed those that are bacteriostatic to S.aureus
- indicating a role for NO in sinus host defense
sterility of the sinuses (compared to nasal mucosa)
- explained by the differences in epithelial NO production
NO produced in the sinuses will continuously enter the nasal cavity 
and have biological effects in more distal parts of the airways following 
inhalation
- sinus-derived NO ; affect pulmonary blood flow or act in an 'aerocrine' 
fashion (participate in the first line of defence against airbone infectious 
agents)
Airway-derived NO ; have an alternative or complementary role in host difense
- increase ciliary beat frequency in bovine respiratory epithelium
- apical location of airway NOS (cilia are anchored to the same area of cell)






 Nitric Oxide
High Nitric Oxide Production in Human Paranasal Sinuses

J.O.N. Lundberg, T. Farkas-Szallasi, E. Weitzberg, J. Rinder et al
Summarized by Jeong Hoon Oh, MD
Nature Medicine, Vol. 1, No. 4, April 1995


Physiological role of the human paranasal sinuses ; several theories, but enigma
Paranasal sinuses - generally sterile in healthy subjects
* mech. of sterility ; not fully understood
- ciliary activity  secretory Ig with intact ostium : cleansing of the sinus 
ostium
0.5% of all common colds - complicated by sinusitis
Nitric Oxide (NO) : produced in mammalian cells by NO synthase (NOS)
* substrate ; amino acid L-arginine
* 3 isoforms of human NOSs cloned : neuronal, endothelial  inducible NOS
- neuronal  endothelial NOS ; constitutively expressed  produce low level of 
NO
( activity is dependent on Ca influx )
- inducible NOS ; expressed only after induction by certain cytokines or by 
bacterial lipopolysaccharide
( not dependent on Ca influx )
( susceptible to glucocorticosteroid - suppressed )
- All isoforms are blocked by L-arginine analogues (ex. N-nitro-L-arginine 
methyl ester (L-NAME))
Role of NO in host defence
- implied when produced in large quantities by an inducible NOS
- involved in mouse macrophage-mediated killing of a variety of pathogens
- antiviral properties
* The origin  role of NO of healthy subjects ; not known

   POSITING: 

In nasal airways, continuous production of NO
- indicated by presence of gas in nasally derived air
- In Kartagener's syndrome, pts lack NO in nasal air  have severe problems 
with 
recurrent airway infection

   POSITING:

In this study, we identify the epithelium in paranasal sinuses as a major site 
of NO production and suggest a role for airway-derived NO in primary host 
defence.



Methods
Measurement of NO in sinus  nasal air
in 5 healthy subjects (ages 29-41, 4 males)
; after topical anesth.
- max. antrum puncture with an autoinjector (Sinoject ) through the inferior 
meatus
- a syringe was connected to a catheter placed in the sinus
- 20ml of air aspirated over a period of 15 sec
- repeated every minutes for 5 minutes
- NO measurement performed before  after intrasinus instillation of NOS 
inhibitor L-NAME (3.7mM in saline)  as a control D-NAME (3.7 mM in saline)
- entire sinus was filled with the solution  emptied again after a 10-min 
incubation period
; additional experiment 
nasal air was aspirated (20ml over a period of 15s) using an occlusive nasal 
olive (connected to a syringe  introduced into the vestibulum of the nose)
- asked to hold breath with mouth closed while the contralateral nostril was 
left open
- ( air was forced from one nostril to the other via the nasopharynx )
- before  after measurement of intranasal administration of a total of 20mlg 
L-NAME (14.8mM in saline 5ml) - inhaled as an aerosol through the nose over 
10-min period 
in 4 pts (56-77 yrs, 3 males) undergoing routine surgery to alleviate orbital 
compression due to proptosis
; air was aspirated repeatedly from one max. sinus
in all experiments ; the aspirated air was immediatelt injected into an NO 
chemiluminescence analyzer
; NO values remained stable in the syringe for longer than 2 min at widely 
varied conc. of NO in air
in 49 healthy non-smoking subjects (age 0-62, 22 male)
measurement of nasal NO concentrations continuously by sampling air (0.7 l 
/min) 
form one nostril
- nasal olive was connected directly to the sampling tube of chemiluminescence 
analyzer and 

Re: CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[C Creel]

JR wrote:

 Are you suggesting nebulizing for SARS or not?


  FH Lew responded:


The anwser is YES.However, it must be remembered that Experimental
Research in NO has shown that one-third are non-responders.


  **  I think you need to be talking to the people who are on the frontlines
of this, Lew.
Nebulizing is how they feel a number of health care practitioners ended up
with SARS.
This information is from an interdisciplinary group all of whom have been
working directly with SARS patients.  Any one of us can sit here and
speculate but until we've  dealt with it as they have, I have to defer to
them on the issue of transmission.

  Regards,
Catherine


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com

CSRe: Nebulizing CS for SARS Redux

[jrowland]

Are you suggesting nebulizing for SARS or not?
jr


--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html

List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com