Re: [Sursound] FLAC and max number of channels

[Martin Leese]

Panos Kouvelis wrote:
...
> I don't really know how this can be done :-(
>
> If you have any news please let me know.

A FLAC stream can include a maximum of only
8 channels.  A native FLAC file can contain
only a single FLAC stream (and so is limited to
8 channels).  An Ogg container can contain
multiple streams, including multiple FLAC
streams.  Note that there is no standard to
define what channels go in which FLAC
stream; you will need to roll your own.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] So long CIPIC HRTF?

[Martin Leese]

Fons Adriaensen  A 'spiral', very different from any spin, was mentioned,
> and Sampo seemed to think that recovery from that would
> require regaining speed. The opposite is true, as in a
> spiral your airspeed will increase [1]. Unless you recover,
> there are two ways in which it can end: by smashing into
> the ground, by or structural breakdown as the result of
> excessive speed.
>
> So as part of spiral recovery, you need to reduce speed.

I am never been a pilot, but my understanding
is that a fighter jet can also deploy a parachute
from the tail.   This reduces the airspeed, and
so helps the pilot escape from a spiral.

Sigmund Gudvangen wrote:
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Death Spiral
>
> What has this aviation stuff to do with surround sound?

Well, nothing; boy, is my face red.  Please
ignore this post.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Recording in a studio of a Jazz-Piano and singer

[Martin Leese]

Thorsten Michels wrote:

> In three weeks I have the opportunity to record a Jazz Duo with a
> concert grand piano (Steinway) and a singer in a recording studio, with
> controled acoustic.
...
> The job is to record the duo in the classical way (Stereo) and now comes
> the fun part: in Surround and / or Ambisonic, too.

I have never recorded anything, so please
ignore what I say.

Perhaps I have misunderstood something, but
I assume the studio will be acoustically dead
(no early reflections or reverberation).  I am not
sure what will be the point of reproducing this in
surround.

You really need an acoustically live studio so
that there is some surround to record.
Recordings by Nimbus Records are an
extreme example of this.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic UHJ Stereo decoder to speaker feeds

[Martin Leese]

Sampo Syreeni wrote:
...
> Nota bene, we've talked about this dependency on rig diameter on-list
> before. Under the topic of Martin Leese's "Big Geese".

Not mine; try:
From: Peter Lennox
Subject: [Sursound] Distance & Ambisonics
Date: Tue Jul 10 16:25:27 EDT 2007

The Sursound Archive is your friend.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Sursound] WavPack (was: Re: Ambix files)

[Martin Leese]

On 5/23/21, Martin Leese  wrote:

> Extending FLAC to more than eight channels
> has been discussed in the past.For
> example, look in the sursound archives for this
> long post by me:
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] octofile release
> Date: Mon Jul 30 22:30:42 EDT 2018

Here is a link:
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/2018-July/049694.html

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] WavPack (was: Re: Ambix files)

[Martin Leese]

Stefan Schreiber wrote:

> It would be relatively easy to extend FLAC to more than 8 channels.
>
> (To cover ?exotic? audio formats such as 5.1.4, HOA, and a plentitude
> of audio object standards.)

Extending FLAC to more than eight channels
has been discussed in the past.For
example, look in the sursound archives for this
long post by me:
Subject: Re: [Sursound] octofile release
Date: Mon Jul 30 22:30:42 EDT 2018

It is not possible, except by using multiple
FLAC streams in a single container.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Speakers for an immersive audio-video installation

[Martin Leese]

MrUnmenge  wrote:

> Thanks a bunch to everyone for their answers!
>
> @J?rgen and Martin: I am confused, if I click the link to the attachment, i
> only get plaintext (google chrome) and unfortunately i'm not in the aes?
> i've send you, j?rgen, a PM for that.

Hi Juergen,

PDF attached.  (I have not sent this message
to the list.)

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Speakers for an immersive audio-video installation

[Martin Leese]

J?rgen Peissig wrote:

> Dear Max,
>
> just saw that the list crops attachments.
>
> You can find the the publication here:
> https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19522

Not crop, but you have to click on the link and
enter your e-mail address and sursound list
password.  You can then view the five page
PDF file.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Rode NT SF1

[PARKER Martin]

Attachment scrubbed, here it is as a link instead:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ua74tvsp3bwa8lp/Rode-To-Fancy_template.RPP.zip?dl=0


From: Sursound  on behalf of PARKER Martin 

Sent: 24 June 2020 10:17
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Rode NT SF1

Hi all/Franco, you can use this template to help, see attached.
You'll see the røde Aformat plugin is set to have input as the mic, and output 
as bformat ambix.
You'll need the wonderful IEM suite installed for decoding to binaural, 5.1 and 
to a fancier/custom space as shown https://plugins.iem.at/.
You can simply bounce the bformatAmbix track to perform the conversion from a- 
to- bformatAmbix.


Best

Martin~


---

Dr Martin Parker

Programme Director MSc Sound Design

Reid School of Music

Edinburgh College of Art

University of Edinburgh

+44(0)7813 217092

+44(0)131 650 2333

skype: tinpark


Room 3.07

Alison House

12 Nicolson Square

Edinburgh, EH8 9DF

Scotland, UK


map:
https://goo.gl/maps/trpjm55HiorwpreWA


www.soundeducation.net<http://www.soundeducation.net<http://www.soundeducation.net<http://www.soundeducation.net>>

www.tinpark.com<http://www.tinpark.com>




From: Sursound  on behalf of Ross Adams 

Sent: 24 June 2020 09:59
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: [Sursound] Rode NT SF1

Hello,

I will be recording ambient sounds using the Rode NT SF1 for a multispeaker
performance. It is the first time i have used such a microphone and worked
with ambisonics.
Could someone please point me towards or offer information on turning the
A-format recordings into B-Format and alternative ways to play back the
b-format field recordings in Reaper without using the Soundfield Rode
PLugin Processor. I may be totally wrong but it only seems to offer 5.1 or
7.1 etc and I wish to just play the files back as b-format files.

I think my understanding of this is right...please do corect me.

Thank you in advance,
Franco
+45 42 50 07 40
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Re: [Sursound] Rode NT SF1

[PARKER Martin]

Hi all/Franco, you can use this template to help, see attached.
You'll see the røde Aformat plugin is set to have input as the mic, and output 
as bformat ambix.
You'll need the wonderful IEM suite installed for decoding to binaural, 5.1 and 
to a fancier/custom space as shown https://plugins.iem.at/.
You can simply bounce the bformatAmbix track to perform the conversion from a- 
to- bformatAmbix.


Best

Martin~


---

Dr Martin Parker

Programme Director MSc Sound Design

Reid School of Music

Edinburgh College of Art

University of Edinburgh

+44(0)7813 217092

+44(0)131 650 2333

skype: tinpark


Room 3.07

Alison House

12 Nicolson Square

Edinburgh, EH8 9DF

Scotland, UK


map:
https://goo.gl/maps/trpjm55HiorwpreWA


www.soundeducation.net<http://www.soundeducation.net>

www.tinpark.com<http://www.tinpark.com>




From: Sursound  on behalf of Ross Adams 

Sent: 24 June 2020 09:59
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Subject: [Sursound] Rode NT SF1

Hello,

I will be recording ambient sounds using the Rode NT SF1 for a multispeaker
performance. It is the first time i have used such a microphone and worked
with ambisonics.
Could someone please point me towards or offer information on turning the
A-format recordings into B-Format and alternative ways to play back the
b-format field recordings in Reaper without using the Soundfield Rode
PLugin Processor. I may be totally wrong but it only seems to offer 5.1 or
7.1 etc and I wish to just play the files back as b-format files.

I think my understanding of this is right...please do corect me.

Thank you in advance,
Franco
+45 42 50 07 40
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[Sursound] [OT]Sonarworks SoundID

[Martin Leese]

Hi All,

This post is off-topic because it is about stereo,
not surround.  However, it includes HRTFs, so
might be of interest.

Sonarworks is releasing a new product,
SoundID.  SoundID adjusts frequency response
in three different ways:

1,  Calibration of speakers and headphones;
they point out that as bedroom studios
become more common, the need for this
increases.
2.  Listener's personal preferences; this part
seems new.
3.  Listener's own HRTF.

Way 2 has always existed as tone controls.
SoundID seems more systematic.

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2020/02/more-personal-stereo-with-soundid/
https://support.sonarworks.com/hc/en-us/categories/360002410539-SoundID

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] analog planner

[Martin Leese]

Dave Malham wrote:
...
> Anyway, here's a link to the final .pdf of the NRDC
> Report 3 on panpots, in Michael Gerzon's own handwriting.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/div42x63thc66tl/nrdc_report_3.pdf?dl=0

Hi Dave,

If that is Report No. 3, I can't help wondering
what was in the other reports.  In your attic, did
you happen to find an index page listing the
reports and their titles?

Many thanks,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Tetramic UK repair options?

[Martin Leese]

John Leonard Main wrote:
> Jamie,
>
> Just a note about the HMRC import charges rip-off: someone looks at the
> declared insurance value of the microphone and charges VAT on that, plus a
> handling charge. You have to spend time on the phone explaining that to the
> drones who answer and then ask for the matter to be escalated to a
> supervisor. If there was a charge for the repair, then that should show up
> on the invoice, but as I think it?s unlikely that Len charged you over ?500
> for the repair, the added VAT should be minimal. This happens all the time
> with kit sent overseas for repair and I?ve lost count of the number of times
> I?ve had to call the courier company and go through the process of
> explaining that there?s been no added value to an under-warranty repair, so
> no VAT is applicable.

My experience of shipping equipment to the
USA for repair is very dated, but it used to be
that you could complete a form and, *providing
the serial number of the item was the same on
return*, there were no added charges,

> Of course, this will only get worse following Brexit,

You have no idea how good it feels to have
emigrated to Canada.

Regards,
Martin
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] practical HOA encoding

[Martin Leese]

Len Moskowitz wrote:
...
> I suspect that a big part of the problem was due to the lack of ambience
> in the spot mics. The ambience is a really important cue for distant
> sources.

For one (old) implementation of this idea, see:

M.A. Gerzon, "The Design of Distance Panpots",
Preprint 3308 of the 92nd Audio Engineering
Society Convention, Vienna (1992 Mar.)
(Simulating distance effects in directional
reproduction.)

Regards,
Martin
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Speaker array advice

[Martin Leese]

Tom Slater wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I?m looking for some advice on speaker speaker set ups as we?re moving
> studio so have the perfect opportunity to rethink our current array.
>
> At the moment we have 25 x Genelec 8030s and 2 x Genelec 7050 subs.

If you want to reproduce Ambisonics then
if you can acquire a third sub (for a total of
three arranged in a triangle) you could have
horizontal-only surround subs.

With two extra (for a total of four arranged in a
tetrahedron, perhaps three on the floor and
one elevated) then you could have full-sphere
subs.

Note that for the subs, you only need a
single-band "velocity" decoder.

Regards,
Martin
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] 2nd order A-format to B-format equations

[Martin Dupras]

Thank you. Much appreciated.

- martin


On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 at 22:36, Fons Adriaensen  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 09:59:45PM +0000, Martin Dupras wrote:
>
> > However, no one has answered my question. I will ask again.
> >
> > Can someone point me to any published resources that explain the
> principles
> > and theoretical equations required to in theory convert from 2nd order
> > A-format to B-format? I can find resources for 1st order but not for 2nd
> > order.
>
> First, there is no such thing as a standard 2nd order A-format. All
> higher order AMB mics I know of use different capsule geometries.
> Also some are on a solid sphere, some are open, and that changes
> things as well.
>
> Secondly, for second and higher order things become much more
> complex. One of the reasons for this is that normal capsules
> don't have much 2nd or higher order components in their polar
> pattern. Whatever there is are imperfections or the result of
> diffraction on the mic body. That means you can only obtain
> the higher order components by exploiting the finite distance
> between the capsules and any diffraction, and things become
> very frequency dependent as a result of this.
>
> Basically this a system inversion problem, basic matrix maths.
>
> The theoretical polar patterns of the mics, or IR measurements
> in a number of directions, define a matrix. Inverting this matrix
> and then multiplying the result with another one defining the
> B-format polar patterns, you obtain the A/B conversion matrix.
>
> This sound simple, but in practice it isn't. The inversion will
> be frequency dependent and ill-conditioned at lower frequencies.
> The theoretically 'perfect' result won't be usable, it may require
> extreme gains and amplify noise and small errors in the original
> data out of proportion.
>
> You need to deal with this in a practical way. This is were
> the 'secret sauce' is, it is a careful balancing act between
> conflicting requirements. There are some mathematical tricks
> to help with this but that would lead us very far. The simple
> ones (presented in some papers) don't work well in practice.
>
> The basic theory you'll find in several papers on higher order
> Ambisonic theory. Warning: this becomes very mathematical, and
> there is no other way.
>
> Ciao,
>
> --
> FA
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Re: [Sursound] 2nd order A-format to B-format equations

[Martin Dupras]

Thank you for all the answers. I do appreciate.

However, no one has answered my question. I will ask again.

Can someone point me to any published resources that explain the principles
and theoretical equations required to in theory convert from 2nd order
A-format to B-format? I can find resources for 1st order but not for 2nd
order.

Thank you.

- martin

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 at 21:54, Fons Adriaensen  wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 04:50:06AM +0800, Stephen McArdle wrote:
>
> > I think the question might be more simpler than this.
> > For 1st order (with 4 microphones) the very first A to B
> > equations are (for example):
>
> > W' = FLU+FRD+BLD+BRU
> > X' = FLU+FRD-BLD-BRU
> > Y' = FLU-FRD+BLD-BRU
> > Z' = FLU-FRD-BLD+BRU
>
> It's not that simple. This would work if
>
> * your capsules are exactly hypercaridiod (i.e. max
>   directivity), independent of frequency, and
> * they are *perfectly* matched.
>
> That is not the case in practice. Even if the capsules
> are high quality and well matched you will need some
> EQ in addition to these simple sums.
>
> > What would the equations be for 8 microphones?
> > W' = FLU+FRD+BLD+BRU+FRU+FLD+BLU+BRD
> > X' = FLU+FRU+FRD+FLD-BLD-BRU-BLU-BRD
> > Y' = FLU+FLD+BLD+BLU-FRU-FRD-BRD-BRU
> > Z' = FLU+BRU+FRU+BLU-FLD-BLD-FRD-BRD
>
> No, this is completely wrong, ignores all practical
> aspects, and again it's not that simple.
>
> > But what about R’,S’,T’,U’ ??
>
> Much more complex again.
>
> In practice you can't do this to sufficient accuracy
> without rather complex EQ or convolution.
>
> And anyway, trying to do A/B conversion (or even Ambisonic
> decoding) in environments like PureData, SuperCollider and
> similar is a sure recipe for disaster. These are all
> *artistic* tools, and they don't allow for the precise
> technical definition of e.g. the required EQ. Apart from
> that the probabily of making some simple but fatal error
> is way too high for a reliable result.
>
> Ciao,
>
> --
> FA
>
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[Sursound] 2nd order A-format to B-format equations

[Martin Dupras]

Hi,

Could anyone point me in the direction of a resource that shows the
equations for converting a 2nd order A-format recording into B-format? I
would like to convert in realtime from a Core Octomic in software (e.g. PD,
Max, SuperCollider) without the use of a plugin.

Thanks,

- martin
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Re: [Sursound] Multi-user head tracked binaural ambisonics query

[Martin Leese]

Simon Connor wrote:
...
> *First, is the video individual or projected? Is this HMD/GoogleCardboard
> type situation? If the first, what are the audio/video sync latency
> tolerances for the piece? *
>
> The video will be a single large scale projection rather than an individual
> VR / Google cardboard headsets. The audio will be in sync with image. Ive
> not had chance to test yet so not definite on tolerable latency but at a
> guess up to a couple of miliseconds if possible.
>
> *Second, is the sound scene a "shared" experience, in that do the actions
> of one person affect the sound heard by another? Is the scene dynamically
> generated/rendered in real-time or is this basic off-line rendered audio
> HOA playback? Single point of view in the sound scene, or does each
> listener have their own view, and it is fixed or moving with the user's
> position? *
>
> The sound scene is played back by off line rendered audio. A fixed/linear
> 3OA audio stream, which I would then like to be decoded binaurally to each
> users HP, for now this will be fixed rather than constantly moving.
>
> This audio stream would be the same for each each user - a binaural mix but
> modified depending on their own unique head movements .  So the data flow
> would be; audio and video played in sync, audio sent potentially wirelessly
> to approx 6 pairs of headphones with headtracker, each user's headtracker
> sending data back to the individual binaural decoder, and then each user
> receiving their own modified stream from this.

Maybe I am being silly, but would a much
simpler solution not be to use speakers?
The video is canned and projected.  The
soundfield is fixed relative to the video.  Why
all these ear muffs?

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] tetrahedral mic record

[Martin Leese]

Eero Aro wrote:

> umashankar wrote:
>> I read this many years ago so cannot remember a source, but I think
>> on-axis is not the best direction for a tetrahedral array.

> Funny that you remember that discussion, it must have been more than a
> decade ago in Sursound.
>
> I can't remember whoever started the thread, but I asked the same
> question as
> Steven. I had played with the rotating plugins and came to think that I
> could
> point one of the SFM capsules directly towards the center of the
> performers.
> I was very soon told that it's not a good idea.

This appears to be part of a long thread with
the Subject "Formal A-format".  Eero asked his
question on July 27, 2006.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Sursound] Looking for mic advice

[Martin Leese]

Drew Kirkland wrote:
> Hi guys
>
> We have recently decided to record nature in ambisonic format with a
> additional specific mono and stereo recordings added in at edit stage.
>
> I would be interested in current ambisonic mic choice, we don't have loads
> of cash but want to get as transparent a sound field as possible.

There is a list of mics on Wikipedia at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ambisonic_hardware#Microphone_Arrays

If the list is incomplete then will people please
add to it.

Regards,
Martin
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
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Re: [Sursound] octofile release

[Martin Leese]

Aaron Heller wrote:

> There's a IETF proposal from folks at Google for "Ambisonics in an Ogg Opus
> Container", based on
>
>   Nachbar, et al., Ambix - A Suggested Ambisonics Format. 3rd International
> Symposium on Ambisonics and Spherical Acoustics, Lexington, KY (2011)
>
> and the idea of a default stereo decode from Etienne Deleflie's Universal
> Ambisonic work

I would instead recommend my proposal for a
stereo decode described at:
http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/Audio/stereo_mix_proposal.html
http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/Audio/StereoMix_chunk.html

This can be used not only in Ambisonic files
(see Example 3 on the Stereo Mix chunk page),
but also in non-Ambisonic multi-channel files.
This makes it more likely to be adopted.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] octofile release

[Martin Leese]

Marc Lavall?e wrote:
...
> I don't know if the fine Xiph developers can "just" extend the
> definitions of FLAC, if a special Ambisonics mode would be required, and
> to what extent the 8-channel limit (as a limit) is a political issue.

Extending a FLAC stream beyond eight
channels is not possible.  There are two
problems; one simple, one less so:

The simple problem is that the field in the
header used for the number of channels is
only three bits.

Perhaps comparing FLAC with the Ogg
container and Vorbis codec will aid
understanding of the more difficult problem.

With Ogg, different streams can be either
chained (sequential) or grouped
(parallel/interleaved).  Typically, metadata
streams would be chained (so they appear
before any audio data) and audio streams
would be grouped.

Within a single FLAC stream the audio is
split into blocks which are grouped.  But within
each block the eight channels are chained.
This makes sense with a maximum of only
eight channels.  Within a Vorbis stream the
audio is split into frames which are grouped.
However, because a Vorbis stream can
contain up to 256 channels, within each frame
the channels are also grouped.

So the maximum of eight channels is really
embedded into the FLAC standard.  To change
this would require a whole new standard (or
the use of multiple grouped FLAC streams in
an Ogg container).

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Does "gravure universelle" (universal engraving) mean Ambisonic?

[Martin Leese]

Hi All,

There is an used LP on offer on eBay which
is described as Ambisonic, but which is not
included in the UHJ Discography.  The LP is
on the Erato label, STU 70221.  The cover
says the LP is "gravure universelle", which
Google translate says means "universal
engraving".  Is this LP Ambisonic?

The LP is on offer here:
https://www.ebay.ca/i/153041669368

The UHJ Discography is available here:
http://www.surrounddiscography.com/

Many thanks,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
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[Sursound] Ambisonics in an Ogg Opus Container

[Martin Leese]

On 5/2/17, Martin Leese <martin.le...@stanfordalumni.org> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> This is yet another version of the draft standard
> for Ambisonics using Ogg Opus by some guys,
> one of whom is still at Google.  It was
> discussed on this list last year (in May and
> November):
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-codec-ambisonics-03

Another version:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-codec-ambisonics-04

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Soundfield mic disintegrating foam

[Martin Leese]

Michael Dunn wrote:

> The foam in my MkIV ?suitcase? has turned to horrid mush. Argh. Any ideas
> for dealing with it?
>
> I am incredibly scared to open the mic lest I find foam gunk all over those
> beautiful capsules!!!

Quantum physics notwithstanding, either there
is foam gunk over the capsules or there is not.
Leaving the mic closed will not change the
result when you finally do so.  Also,the longer
you leave gunk in there (if any) then the more
time is has to glue itself onto the capsules.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Simple Software to Play a 6-channel WAV File (Windows)?

[Martin Leese]

Marc Lavallée wrote:

> Just a question: despite possible degradation of the decoded
> ambisonics stream (due to phase errors), could it be that our perception
> mechanisms (from the ears to the brain) can "fix" some distortions?
> Also, what are the frequency ranges affected by phase errors (for
> example in a AAC or Opus multi-channel stream) that could induce
> perceptual problems? What's the limit: 16, 12, 8 or 4Khz?

Unless I have misunderstood something (which
happens), phase is used to localise sounds
with frequencies between 150 Hz and 1.5 kHz,
so the limit is 1.5 kHz or thereabouts.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Questions on Ambisonics and space / VR Radio Theater

[Martin .]

Hi List,

I have lurked here for a while searching the great archive that is this
list. This is my first post here as a beginner in Ambisonics.

I am a sound designer working on a "VR Radio Theater" project (with no
visual elements). Listeners will be wearing headphones with head trackers
and receive binaural audio. My plan is to play back the sound in
SuperCollider which can process the ambisonic signal as well as the head
tracking data, on a Raspberry Pi or similar mini computer.

At the moment I'm using Reaper and the ATK library to design the
soundscapes, but I am starting to understand that ambisonics has very
different rules when it comes to creating a sense of space, especially
realistic ones, and this is what I would very much like some advice on. An
example would be two people talking and moving about the room that you as a
listener is sitting in the middle of.

What processes do sound designers here use to design realistic ambisonic
spaces? Do you record it all with tetrahedral microphones? Are there good
reverb solutions to achieve this with mono recordings - or to enhance
ambisonic recordings? Do you use conventional DAWs or also game engines
like UE4 and Unity?

The project is still pending funding so I am interested to hear both
low-budget and more expensive approaches.

Thank you all for reading.

Martin
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[Sursound] Free Ambisonic sound effects

[Martin Leese]

Hi,

41 Ambisonic Sound Effects (2.9 GB / 68+
minutes) for free; visit:
https://www.asoundeffect.com/ambisonic-sound-effects-giveaway/

I have no connection, blah, blah, blah.

Regatds,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Two Draft standards for VR

[Martin Leese]

Hi,

A couple of draft standards for Virtual Reality
have been published, and feedback is
requested.  Both standards mention
higher-order Ambisonics.

MPEG has published their Omnidirectional
Media Format; available from:
http://mpeg.chiariglione.org/standards/mpeg-a/omnidirectional-media-application-format/profiles-under-considerations-isoiec-23000

The VR Industry Forum has published draft
guidelines; available at:
http://www.vr-if.org/wp-content/uploads/VRIF_Draft_Guidelines-v0.0draft10-2017-09-12.pdf

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Project at upwork.com

[Martin Leese]

Hi,

Saw this on the Web.  I have no connection
blah, blah, blah.

Fixed Price
Budget: $100

My company is producing a short 360
documentary, and we need 3 different
spatial / ambisonic / 360º soundscapes that
take place in the Middle East.

1) Mosque / prayer service
2) Souk / food market
3) Children playing (speaking Arabic)

https://www.upwork.com/job/Spatial-Ambisonic-360-soundscapes-Middle-East_~01f7ccf7e773d1ee4c/

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Songbird

[Martin Leese]

Hi,

Google's Songbird is a JavaScript library that
can render HOA to stereo and the Web; visit:

https://opensource.googleblog.com/2017/08/bringing-real-time-spatial-audio-to-web-with-songbird.html

https://google.github.io/songbird/

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

[Martin Leese]

John Merchant wrote:

> If anyone is interested, here's a copy of the paper Gus mentioned.
...
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John Merchant wrote:

> Hmm, looks like the server removes any attachments.
>
> Try this:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-vV4Aoij_dmZE9iNGcxVGFzdG8/view?usp=sharing

More punted off to the side than removed.  I
successfully downloaded the attachment from
the sursound website.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Sursound] Help: what am I doing wrong?

[Martin Dupras]

I've used the VVTetraVST plugin too, with FuMa->Ambix conversion,
using the actual calibration files for the mic. The Ambeo seems to
give slightly better results, but I'm willing to have more goes with
VVTetraVST is you think it's significant.

The way I have the routing in Reaper is that the track with the
4-channel content send to parent channels 1-4 (but I've tried 1-16
too, just for luck, not that it should make any difference), to the
master which is 16-channels in, 21 out. I'm using a MadiFace
interface, and each output in Reaper is definitely going to the right
channel and the right speaker. (I've tested this by having a mono
source and routing it individually to each speaker.)

The speakers are all powered Genelecs. I've calibrated them such that
the same signal routed to any of them comes to within 1dB SPL of each
other at the centre of the hemisphere. The speakers are in phase by
virtue of being connected by way of a Studer Desk which takes MADI
input and outputs on 32 XLR outs.

I'm not entirely sure I follow the speaker coordinates question. The
way I've done it is by putting radius, azimuth and elevation for each
in a CSV file to ADT, which then calculates the right encoding
configuration for that particular array. I trust that ADT and ambix
decoder are doing the right things, e.g. that "speaker 1 is at radius
4.5m and, 0 degrees azimuth and -22.5 degrees elevation" is actually
receiving the right mix of signals.

But this is useful, thank you. I wouldn't be surprised to find that
I've overlooked something, so any more things to check are welcome!

- martin

On 5 July 2017 at 23:48, Steven Boardman <boardroomout...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok.
>
> Just to rule out, only use the ambeo plugin for the ambeo. If its the
> Tetramic then use its own b-format conversion.
>
> Does the routing of Reaper,  match that of the ADT,  and that of the actual
> speaker connections. Are all speakers connected in phase?
> Do your speaker co-ordinates follow ambisonics,  or graphics convention?
>
> Steve
>
>
> On 5 Jul 2017 23:28, "Martin Dupras" <martindup...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> They're converted to Ambix. The A-format recordings are in a 4-channel
> track which has the Sennheiser Ambeo plug-in which converts from
> A-Format to Ambix B-format. (It's capable of FuMa and Ambix; I have it
> on the latter.) I've also verified that the capsules order is correct.
> The Ambeo plugin expects the capsules to be FLU, FRD, BLD and BRU,
> which I believe to be the same on both the TetraMic and the Sennheiser
> Ambeo.
>
> - martin
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Re: [Sursound] Help: what am I doing wrong?

[Martin Dupras]

They're converted to Ambix. The A-format recordings are in a 4-channel
track which has the Sennheiser Ambeo plug-in which converts from
A-Format to Ambix B-format. (It's capable of FuMa and Ambix; I have it
on the latter.) I've also verified that the capsules order is correct.
The Ambeo plugin expects the capsules to be FLU, FRD, BLD and BRU,
which I believe to be the same on both the TetraMic and the Sennheiser
Ambeo.

- martin


On 5 July 2017 at 23:24, Steven Boardman <boardroomout...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When you are converting from A to B-format are you going to FuMa or Ambix
> convention?
>
> Generally most 1st order content is FuMa, so it will need to be converted
> to Ambix before your decode.
>
> Steve
>
> On 5 Jul 2017 23:11, "Martin Dupras" <martindup...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've deployed a 21-speaker near spherical array a few days ago, which
>> I think is working ok, but I'm having difficulty with playing back
>> some first order A-format recordings on it. They sound really very
>> diffuse and not very localised at all. I figured that some of you good
>> people on here might have some idea of where I might be going wrong or
>> what is not right.
>>
>> At the moment I'm using Reaper, and for decoding I'm using Matthias
>> Kronlachner's Ambix decoder plug-in, with a configuration that I've
>> calculated with Aaron Heller's Ambisonics Decoder Toolbox. I think the
>> decoder configuration is right. I've calculated it with ambix ordering
>> and scaling, and third order in H and V.  The speaker array has six
>> speakers at floor level (-22 degrees elevation), eight at ear level at
>> 1m70 (0 degrees elevation), six at 45 degrees elevation and one at the
>> apex.
>>
>> Now: if I pan monophonic sources using a panner (e.g. o3a panner, 3rd
>> order), the localisation is pretty good. I've tested that with several
>> people by panning to random places and asking to blindly point out to
>> where they hear the source. Generally, they're in about the right
>> place (say within 45 degrees on average.)
>>
>> On the other hand, if I play 1st order A-format recordings (mostly
>> that I've made using our Core TetraMic), the localisation of sources
>> is pretty poor. I also tried with the "xyz.wav" example file from Core
>> (https://www.vvaudio.com/downloads) with the same results. To convert
>> from A-format to B-format, I've tried using Core's VVtetraVST plugin
>> with the calibration files for the mic (followed by the o3a FuMa to
>> Ambix converter), and the Senneheiser Ambeo plugin (which does the
>> same job, but in Ambix form already.)
>>
>> So what am I doing wrong? I've spent the last couple of days checking
>> everything thoroughly. I've calibrated all the speakers to within 1dB
>> SPL for the same signal received with an omni mic at the centre of the
>> sphere. I've triple-checked that the encoder is in the right channel
>> numbering:
>>
>> //--- decoder information ---
>> // decoder file =
>> ../decoders/BSU_Array_6861_RAE1_3h3v_allrad_5200_rE_max_2_band.config
>> // speaker array name = BSU_Array_6861_RAE1
>> // horizontal order   = 3
>> // vertical order = 3
>> // coefficient order  = acn
>> // coefficient scale  = SN3D
>> // input scale= SN3D
>> // mixed-order scheme = HV
>> // input channel order: W Y Z X V T R S U Q O M K L N P
>> // output speaker order: S01 S02 S03 S04 S05 S06 S07 S08 S09 S10 S11
>> S12 S13 S14 S15 S16 S17 S18 S19 S20 S21
>>
>> I'll welcome any suggestion or advice!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> - martin
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[Sursound] Help: what am I doing wrong?

[Martin Dupras]

I've deployed a 21-speaker near spherical array a few days ago, which
I think is working ok, but I'm having difficulty with playing back
some first order A-format recordings on it. They sound really very
diffuse and not very localised at all. I figured that some of you good
people on here might have some idea of where I might be going wrong or
what is not right.

At the moment I'm using Reaper, and for decoding I'm using Matthias
Kronlachner's Ambix decoder plug-in, with a configuration that I've
calculated with Aaron Heller's Ambisonics Decoder Toolbox. I think the
decoder configuration is right. I've calculated it with ambix ordering
and scaling, and third order in H and V.  The speaker array has six
speakers at floor level (-22 degrees elevation), eight at ear level at
1m70 (0 degrees elevation), six at 45 degrees elevation and one at the
apex.

Now: if I pan monophonic sources using a panner (e.g. o3a panner, 3rd
order), the localisation is pretty good. I've tested that with several
people by panning to random places and asking to blindly point out to
where they hear the source. Generally, they're in about the right
place (say within 45 degrees on average.)

On the other hand, if I play 1st order A-format recordings (mostly
that I've made using our Core TetraMic), the localisation of sources
is pretty poor. I also tried with the "xyz.wav" example file from Core
(https://www.vvaudio.com/downloads) with the same results. To convert
from A-format to B-format, I've tried using Core's VVtetraVST plugin
with the calibration files for the mic (followed by the o3a FuMa to
Ambix converter), and the Senneheiser Ambeo plugin (which does the
same job, but in Ambix form already.)

So what am I doing wrong? I've spent the last couple of days checking
everything thoroughly. I've calibrated all the speakers to within 1dB
SPL for the same signal received with an omni mic at the centre of the
sphere. I've triple-checked that the encoder is in the right channel
numbering:

//--- decoder information ---
// decoder file =
../decoders/BSU_Array_6861_RAE1_3h3v_allrad_5200_rE_max_2_band.config
// speaker array name = BSU_Array_6861_RAE1
// horizontal order   = 3
// vertical order = 3
// coefficient order  = acn
// coefficient scale  = SN3D
// input scale= SN3D
// mixed-order scheme = HV
// input channel order: W Y Z X V T R S U Q O M K L N P
// output speaker order: S01 S02 S03 S04 S05 S06 S07 S08 S09 S10 S11
S12 S13 S14 S15 S16 S17 S18 S19 S20 S21

I'll welcome any suggestion or advice!

Thanks,

- martin
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Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics in an Ogg Opus Container

[Martin Leese]

Hi All,

This is yet another version of the draft standard
for Ambisonics using Ogg Opus by some guys,
one of whom is still at Google.  It was
discussed on this list last year (in May and
November):

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-codec-ambisonics-03

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] summary of everything (in the guise of a Sennheiser Ambeo mic critical/comparative review)

[Martin Leese]

Dave Malham wrote:
...
> Also, unless I'm mistaken (always possible),
> it only seems to go back to 2011.

The earliest "Ambeo" post is 2016 so, on this
occasion, 2011 is plenty.

I have saved the Sursound Digests in my
Gmail account going back to August 2008
(Volume 1, Issue 1), and possibly earlier.
(GMail does not display an "Oldest ››" button,
so it is difficult for me to get back to the
beginning.)  Unfortunately, I don't have an
easy way to turn these into a *publicly*
searchable archive.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Ambisonics in an Ogg Opus Container

[Martin Leese]

Hi All,

This is an updated version of the draft
standard for Ambisonics using Ogg Opus by
some guys at Google.  It was discussed on
this list last year (in May and November):

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-codec-ambisonics-02.html

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] AES UK North Workshop on Capturing and Rendering Audio for VR

[Martin Leese]

Jon Honeyball wrote:

> Is this fraud detection thing generated by office365 or by the SS mailing
> list server? I have no idea why the SS mailing list might think that
> office365 was a spoofed server?

I have also seen this on the Xiph Opus list, so
it is not just the sursound list server.  As there
is no money swishing around, I suggest you
just ignore it.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Google's Omnitone

[Martin Leese]

Hi All,

Here is a brief article about Google's
Omnitone for VR surround sound.  What I find
interesting, and which I had not realised
before, is that the binaural is obtained via
eight-speaker surround.  This should make it
trivial to feed such a speaker array.  Visit:
https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/25/googles-omnitone-surround-sound-project-brings-us-closer-to-web-based-vr/

The article contains a link to a Google Blog
post:
http://google-opensource.blogspot.ca/2016/07/omnitone-spatial-audio-on-web.html

As you can see, Google has made Omnitone
open source.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Using Ambisonic for a live streaming VR project

[Martin Richards]

I'm mostly just an interested reader on this group having an historical 
interest in Ambisonics from days in the 70's when I was a member of the Oxford 
Tape-Recording Society (which MAG and Peter Craven ran) and continue the 
interest making amateur recordings in B format.
Although I have very limited experience of binaural I do remember the one and 
only convincing binaural playback I've heard made in a demo at OUTRS using the 
original quad speakers either side of the audience. The only poor localisation 
was in front but height etc. very convincing. I don't remember the mic 
configuration though. Could this good result be because the soundfield is 
stable and head movements are used as would be the case for head-tracked 
headphones? But then why front localisation still poor? Be interested to know 
what people think.
Martin


  From: Richard Lee <rica...@justnet.com.au>
 To: "'sursound@music.vt.edu'" <sursound@music.vt.edu> 
 Sent: Tuesday, 14 June 2016, 12:35
 Subject: Re: [Sursound] Using Ambisonic for a live streaming VR project
   
> The main mechanisms for disambiguating 'cones of confusion' (and this 
includes front-back reversals) are: pinnae effects (Batteau) and 
head-movements (Wallach) - so, without either of these mechanisms at play, 
one would expect directional ambiguity.

You can test the relative importance of these for YOURSELF with the famous 
Malham / Van-Gogh Experiment

http://www.ambisonia.com/Members/ricardo/PermAmbi.htm/#VanGogh.

I still have some Diamond encrusted caps with optional Golden Pinnae but 
you need to pay in used bank notes.  No Confederate money please.

Michael came up with his rE & rV theories ... not by considering how to 
best replicate HRTFs bla bla .. but by asking ... "what information could 
the Mk1 Human Head (+ torso + processing inside + bla bla) possibly have 
available to determine localisation?"

If youi perform the above experiment, you'll find the Moving Head  cues are 
FAR more important than the Fixed Head cues (HRTFs bla bla).

Where the HRTFs have the most significance is in the vertical plane.  It's 
the different frequency response as a source moves off the horizontal plane 
that allows the Mk1 HH to process 'height'.  But even then, Moving Head 
cues are far more unambiguous .. and don't require a priori knowledge of 
the source.

If the HRTF cues break down completely (eg simulating a pair of coincident 
back to back cardioids as the crudest possible binaural decode), simulating 
the Moving Head cues (head tracking) lets the Mk1 HH decode all this 
without any problem, fuss or discomfort.

> I would like a little more information on ?head movements?.  I suspect 
all head movements are being treated as equal, and I have a theory that 
short rapid movements (like shaking the head) should be treated separately 
from movements that include the shoulders, or even the whole body. Short 
rapid movements of the eyeball have been studied and are well understood; 
without these small movements the visual field collapses completely. Does 
something similar happen for the aural field ?

One of the more surprising things that Michael worked out is that the 
Moving Head localisation models gave the "same answers" regardless of 
whether they assumed you turned your whole body to face the source (eg 
Makita) .. or those that only allowed small involuntary head movements (eg 
Clark, Dutton & Vanderlyn IIRC)

It's all there in his "General Metatheory  " if you are prepared to 
study it and follow up the references.  See especially the 'stereo' 
appendix.

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=6827

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[Sursound] Ambisonics in Ogg Opus

[Martin Leese]

Hi,

There is an draft Internet standard for
encoding Ambisonics using the Opus codec in
an Ogg container.  Visit:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-graczyk-codec-ambisonics-00

Opus is a relatively new lossy codec defined in
RFC 6716.  Its encapsulation inside an Ogg
container is defined on RFC 7845.

The draft has been discussed on the Xiph
Opus mailing list.  Unfortunately, I am not
subscribed to that list, so only became aware
of the draft today via a Google Alert.  To
subscribe to the Xiph Opus list, visit:
http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/opus

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Leyfðu Ljósinu by Hildur Guðnadóttir UHJ-encoded?

[Martin Leese]

Hi,

There is a CD on eBay which is not in the UHJ Discography.  However,
the details state:

Leyfðu Ljósinu (Icelandic for "Allow the light"), was recorded live at
the Music Research Centre, University of York, in January [2012?] by
Tony Myatt, using a SoundField ST450 Ambisonic microphone and two
Neumann U87 microphones.
As to be faithful to time and space - elements vital to the movement
of sound - this album was recorded entirely live, with no
post-tampering of the recording's sense of occasion.

℗ & © 2012 Touch
Published by Touch Music [MCPS]

Anybody know if this CD is UHJ-encoded?

Many thanks,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Furse-Malham to ACN conversion

[Martin Dupras]

Thank you all for the very helpful tips. I will try those things tomorrow.

- martin


On 22 March 2016 at 18:49, Martin Dupras <martindup...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Today I tried playback sources in third order Ambisonics on a 8+6+1
> hemispheric speaker array using Reaper. It didn't quite work as
> intended so I'm trying to figure out where I've gone wrong.
>
> I was using the Blue Ripple TOA-Core panner plugin to position the
> sound. I understand that Blue Rippler plugins use the Furse-Malham
> convention.
>
> The only decoders that I could find to decode to my specific array
> (using coefficients that I calculated using the Ambisonics Decoder
> Toolkit) were the Ambix Plug-ins and AmbDec.
>
> I tried Ambix first, which I understand uses the ACN ordering
> convention. I tried re-ordering the channels based on information that
> I found here: 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_data_exchange_formats#ACN.
> But that didn't really work.
>
> I then tried to run 16 outputs out of Reaper into Jack, and from Jack
> into AmbDec, again using my ADT-calculated coefficients. I understand
> that AmbDec uses the Furse-Malham convention, so I would have thought
> it was compatible with the output of the Blue Rippler plugins. But
> again, that didn't really work well at all.
>
> In both cases the sound was coming from seemingly random places, and a
> number of positions went practically silent.
>
> Any advice on where to go next?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> - martin
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[Sursound] Furse-Malham to ACN conversion

[Martin Dupras]

Today I tried playback sources in third order Ambisonics on a 8+6+1
hemispheric speaker array using Reaper. It didn't quite work as
intended so I'm trying to figure out where I've gone wrong.

I was using the Blue Ripple TOA-Core panner plugin to position the
sound. I understand that Blue Rippler plugins use the Furse-Malham
convention.

The only decoders that I could find to decode to my specific array
(using coefficients that I calculated using the Ambisonics Decoder
Toolkit) were the Ambix Plug-ins and AmbDec.

I tried Ambix first, which I understand uses the ACN ordering
convention. I tried re-ordering the channels based on information that
I found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_data_exchange_formats#ACN.
But that didn't really work.

I then tried to run 16 outputs out of Reaper into Jack, and from Jack
into AmbDec, again using my ADT-calculated coefficients. I understand
that AmbDec uses the Furse-Malham convention, so I would have thought
it was compatible with the output of the Blue Rippler plugins. But
again, that didn't really work well at all.

In both cases the sound was coming from seemingly random places, and a
number of positions went practically silent.

Any advice on where to go next?

Many thanks,

- martin
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Re: [Sursound] Acoustic properties of round rooms ?

[Martin Leese]

Augustine Leudar wrote:

> Im actually working on a sound installation which is involved with acoustic
> archeology in which Im hoping to experiments with resonances , this kind of
> thing :
>
> http://www.otsf.org/archaeoacoustics.html
>
> In this case a huge circular henge (3.5  m high banks)  180 m in diameter.

The acoustics of stonehenge (both original
and completed replicas) have been discussed
on the list previously.  If you are interested,
search the archives for:
Subject: Stonehenge's eerie sounds revived
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012

Subject: Gran Sasso - first impressions
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Acoustic properties of round rooms ?

[Martin Leese]

Augustine Leudar wrote:

> Ive had a search online but cant really find much literature about this.
> Can anyone tell me anything about the acoustics of circular rooms/spaces ?
> How to standing waves behave in circular spaces ?

There was a discussion several years ago in
one of the rec.audio.* newsgroups on standing
waves in *spherical* rooms.  Unfortunately,
Google Groups has deleted all the older posts,
but this post might be it:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/"spherical$20room"$20audio/rec.audio.pro/hLCCrmlSFdw/Lq_80PhAZQ0J

(In case the link does not work, I went to
groups.google.com and searched for:
"spherical room" audio
with the double quotes.)

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Different usages, different spaces, different decoders?

[Martin Leese]

Martin Leese wrote:

> Peter Lennox wrote:
>>  Following on from discussions of decoder solutions: Forgive me if I've
>> missed this (I've been watching sursound for about 20 years, or so - but
>> I
>> just may have missed the odd discussion!)
>>
>> Has anyone systematically studied the interactions between decoders,
>> speaker
>> layouts and particular rooms?
>
> Dermot Furlong looked at the last two in the
> early 1990s.  He made a lengthy post to
> "sursound" in June 1996 describing his work.
> This post used to be available in my area on
> the Ambisonia.com site, but it seems to have
> been deleted.  I still have the files, but am not
> sure of the best way for making them available.
>
> ...
>> (and I haven't even mentioned the possible
>> variety of speaker dispersion characteristics!)
>
> Dermot also looked at this.

I have made the research of Dermot Furlong
available on one of my Google Sites at:
https://sites.google.com/site/mytemporarydownloads/

Scroll down to the section "Ambisonic stuff"
and look for the file "dermot.zip".

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Help me with ADT

[Martin Dupras]

Hi,

I've been trying to use ADT for a fortnight now, but I'm kind of stuck.

First of all, I have no experience with Matlab (or Octave) other than
trying ADT, so I'm sure that many of my woes are because I do not
understand. I have however read the ADT README files several times,
and I've been able to run some of the example scripts.

1) In the very first days that I tried ADT, when I ran the
interactive.m script, somehow created some decoder files in the
decoder directory. (I'm not dreaming; I have those files, they got
generated somehow.) Since then, no matter what I do, the interactive.m
does not seem to write anything to the decoders folder.

Is it supposed to write files? Why would it work sometimes, and not some others?

2) There seems to be a new run_dec_interactive.m script. It's not
interactive, so I'm wondering if it's supposed to take the values
written by interactive.m and then calculate a decoder? I've been
trying to make sense of that script, but it seems to be getting its
information from the "defaults.mat". But that is a binary file, so I
really don't understand how to read it or how to change it.

If anyone can shed some light, I'd be very, very grateful.

Many thanks,

- martin
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Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 91, Issue 19

[Martin Leese]

Bob Burton wrote:

> There is a Virtual Reality Audio session at this years NAB in Vegas.
>
> DTS, Dolby and Q Department.  No Ambisonics.
>
> Big mistake in my opinion.

Big mistake for whom?  For companies, the
big problem with Ambisonics is that it cannot
be patented (because the patents have expired).
This makes it a lot more difficult to make
money from Ambisonics.

Please note that I do not condone such
attitudes; I am merely pointing out that they
exist.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

[Martin Dupras]

Thank you to all who replied to my post. Special thanks to Fons, Jörn
and Fernando who have suggested practical starting points.

I will make some calculations and decide on what will be most
practical for my experiment. I will report with my successes (or
failures).

Many thanks!

- martin


On 12 February 2016 at 22:45, Fons Adriaensen <f...@linuxaudio.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 09, 2016 at 09:51:32PM +0000, Martin Dupras wrote:
>
>> At this moment in time, I have the opportunity to deploy (next week) a
>> 16-channel array, so I would like some advice on a configuration that
>> would be a good start to experiment with Ambisonics with height.
>> Someone suggested that I consult the wikipedia page on Ambisonics.
>> That is indeed where I got the idea that an "upper hemisphere" setup
>> might be suitable, since I only have on this occasion 16 speakers.
>> There is however no suggestion as to what a suitable hemispherical
>> configuration might be for a 16-speaker array, which is why I asked my
>> original question.
>
> Provided you don't have 'below the horizon' content, a ring of
> 8 ten degrees below horizontal + a ring of 6 at 45 degrees up +
> (eventually) a single zenith speaker would be more or less
> optimal. So that's 14 or 15 speakers.
>
> The reason for placing the horizontal ring a bit low is that
> most algorithms when computing a hemispherical decoder will
> actually (or implicitly) compute a full sphere decoder and
> then drop the lower part. There result is that horizontal
> sounds are 'pulled up' a bit, as Fernando already pointed
> out.
>
> Ciao,
>
> --
> FA
>
> A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
> It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
> and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
>
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

[Martin Dupras]

Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated.

I'll re-phrase the question in light of some of the answers I've been given.

I will be using third-order Ambisonics. My aim mostly is to experiment
to get a good sense of what is possible with Ambisonics with height. I
have experimented successfully with 8-channel planar Ambisonics some
time ago. My primary intent is to spatialise multiple monophonic
(synthesised) sources using 3rd-order Ambisonics spatialisation, and
the playback of mixed sources (spatialised monphonic and stereophonic
sources as well as B-format 4-channel recordings.)

At this moment in time, I have the opportunity to deploy (next week) a
16-channel array, so I would like some advice on a configuration that
would be a good start to experiment with Ambisonics with height.
Someone suggested that I consult the wikipedia page on Ambisonics.
That is indeed where I got the idea that an "upper hemisphere" setup
might be suitable, since I only have on this occasion 16 speakers.
There is however no suggestion as to what a suitable hemispherical
configuration might be for a 16-speaker array, which is why I asked my
original question.

So let me ask a new question. Given the constraint that I can only use
16 speakers at the moment, and that I need to deploy this next week,
can somehow point me in the direction of what might be a suitable and
reasonable geometric configuration to try out? It seems to me that the
only really practical options here are two stacked rings (stacked
octagons) or a hemisphere. I would have thought that the hemisphere
would be the better choice, and in my scenario, a full lighting rig
allows me theoretically speaking to have speakers at the required
positions.

Again, thank you for all the responses.

- martin


On 8 February 2016 at 15:19, Martin Dupras <martindup...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm intending to try setting up a 16-speaker Ambisonics array next
> week in a small TV studio. I'm trying to figure out the practical
> arrangements for setting up the speakers. I was wondering if anyone
> with experience might be able to offer some advice or point me in the
> right direction?
>
> What I'm planning at the moment is a half-sphere arrangement which
> would likely consist of:
>
> - 8 speakers in a circle of radius 2m at a height of approximately 1.6m
> - 6 speakers in a smaller circle at an elevation of 45 degrees
> - 2 speakers at an elevation of approximately 75 degrees
>
> Alternatively, I would be happy with an arrangement similar to the
> first 16-speakers in this diagramme:
> http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/loudspeaker-plan-observatory.jpg
>
> I've been trying to find out if there is a convention or "most usual"
> arrangement but couldn't find anything. I'm not particularly attached
> to the actual arrangement, I just want to find an arrangement that
> will work well enough with 16 speakers. Any advice?
>
> The other thing I would welcome is advice on how to mount the speakers
> to lighting rigs in a manner that is practical enough to offer some
> good compromise between precision and ease of setup. I believe the
> speakers we'll be using for the upper tiers will be Genelec 8060s.
>
> Many thanks. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!
>
> Cheers,
>
> - martin
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

[Martin Dupras]

Thanks Archontis, that is very useful. I'll try that, it seems to
corroborate what I had in mind initially. What's the worse that can
happen, right? :)

Thanks for the help!

- martin

On 9 February 2016 at 22:34, Politis Archontis
<archontis.poli...@aalto.fi> wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> HOA are not limited to icosahedra or only uniform arrangements (which exist 
> also beyond the 5 platonic solids). It would be very hard to claim them 
> flexible or universal if that was the case. Uniform arrangements though 
> simplify decoder design significantly.
>
> As I mentioned you would need some more recent decoder methods for a 
> hemisphere, however these methods are available and not so sensitive to 
> speaker placement (no need for quests for magical geometries). My two cents, 
> start with a regular horizontal ring, covering the case of horizontal 
> decoding too, and spread the rest of the speakers evenly at the hemisphere, 
> covering roughly equal area partitions. You can also fix one straight above 
> and work with the rest. I believe the system should be capable of decoding 
> 3rd order signals to half-space for such an arrangement, but that needs some 
> checking.
>
> I mentioned two publicly available resources for decoding to such a setup. I 
> forgot to mention however that there exist also professional tools for that. 
> I think Blue Ripple Sound’s decoder can handle hemispheres and irregular 
> setups (haven’t tried it myself) and also the latest Spat from IRCAM has 
> implemented the more advanced HOA decoders I mentioned.
>
> Best,
> Archontis
>
>> On 10 Feb 2016, at 00:16, Martin Dupras <martindup...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have no objection to using fewer than 16 speakers; it's just the
>> maximum I have available to me.
>>
>> The reason I had not considered the icosahedron vertices setup is
>> because, according to the wikipedia page, it's capable of 2nd order,
>> not 3rd order. Is that not the case?
>>
>> Again from wikipedia: "Since stacked rings are somewhat wasteful at
>> higher elevations and necessarily have a hole at the zenith, they have
>> been largely surpassed by hemispherical layouts since mature methods
>> for decoder generation have become available. As they are difficult to
>> rig and require overhead points, hemispheres are usually found either
>> in permanent installations or experimental studios, where expensive
>> and visually intrusive trussing is not an issue."
>>
>> That's the whole reason why I was considering a hemispherical setup
>> originally. It talks about "mature methods for decoder generation" so
>> I (wrongly, perhaps) assumed that there were capable decoders, and
>> there would likely be already available "templates" or "typical
>> scenarios" to use as a starting point.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> - martin
>>
>>
>> - martin
>>
>> On 9 February 2016 at 22:02, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>> I know Im treading on thin ice here around all these ferocious maths
>>> guys... but might it be that there is not a suitable array that uses 16
>>> speakers? I know if you have 16 speakers you will want to use all of them
>>> but an Icosahedron is only 12 speakers (vertices) but it might be the best
>>> option.
>>> Also you could try ICST ambisonics plugins in max - they let you put the
>>> speaker array in and it adjusts accordingly.
>>>
>>> On 9 February 2016 at 21:51, Martin Dupras <martindup...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> I'll re-phrase the question in light of some of the answers I've been
>>>> given.
>>>>
>>>> I will be using third-order Ambisonics. My aim mostly is to experiment
>>>> to get a good sense of what is possible with Ambisonics with height. I
>>>> have experimented successfully with 8-channel planar Ambisonics some
>>>> time ago. My primary intent is to spatialise multiple monophonic
>>>> (synthesised) sources using 3rd-order Ambisonics spatialisation, and
>>>> the playback of mixed sources (spatialised monphonic and stereophonic
>>>> sources as well as B-format 4-channel recordings.)
>>>>
>>>> At this moment in time, I have the opportunity to deploy (next week) a
>>>> 16-channel array, so I would like some advice on a configuration that
>>>> would be a good start to experiment with Ambisonics with height.
>>>> Someone suggested that I consult the wikipedia page o

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

[Martin Dupras]

> Out of curiosity - can I ask why you want to use ambisonics as opposed to
> other spatial audio techniques ?

I'm not sure how to answer. What other techniques did you have in
mind? The reasons are several: I understand at least to some extent
Ambisonics, and I have some (but limited) experience doing it in a
planer array; Ambisonics are flexible and scalable; compatible with
some B-format that my colleagues and I have realised already and will
create in the near future; and can be implemented in the software that
I use (largely PureData and SuperCollider.)

I don't really see which techniques seriously compete with Ambisonics,
but I'll very happily check them out if you point me to them.

- martin
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

[Martin Dupras]

I have no objection to using fewer than 16 speakers; it's just the
maximum I have available to me.

The reason I had not considered the icosahedron vertices setup is
because, according to the wikipedia page, it's capable of 2nd order,
not 3rd order. Is that not the case?

Again from wikipedia: "Since stacked rings are somewhat wasteful at
higher elevations and necessarily have a hole at the zenith, they have
been largely surpassed by hemispherical layouts since mature methods
for decoder generation have become available. As they are difficult to
rig and require overhead points, hemispheres are usually found either
in permanent installations or experimental studios, where expensive
and visually intrusive trussing is not an issue."

That's the whole reason why I was considering a hemispherical setup
originally. It talks about "mature methods for decoder generation" so
I (wrongly, perhaps) assumed that there were capable decoders, and
there would likely be already available "templates" or "typical
scenarios" to use as a starting point.

Thanks,

- martin


- martin

On 9 February 2016 at 22:02, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know Im treading on thin ice here around all these ferocious maths
> guys... but might it be that there is not a suitable array that uses 16
> speakers? I know if you have 16 speakers you will want to use all of them
> but an Icosahedron is only 12 speakers (vertices) but it might be the best
> option.
> Also you could try ICST ambisonics plugins in max - they let you put the
> speaker array in and it adjusts accordingly.
>
> On 9 February 2016 at 21:51, Martin Dupras <martindup...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated.
>>
>> I'll re-phrase the question in light of some of the answers I've been
>> given.
>>
>> I will be using third-order Ambisonics. My aim mostly is to experiment
>> to get a good sense of what is possible with Ambisonics with height. I
>> have experimented successfully with 8-channel planar Ambisonics some
>> time ago. My primary intent is to spatialise multiple monophonic
>> (synthesised) sources using 3rd-order Ambisonics spatialisation, and
>> the playback of mixed sources (spatialised monphonic and stereophonic
>> sources as well as B-format 4-channel recordings.)
>>
>> At this moment in time, I have the opportunity to deploy (next week) a
>> 16-channel array, so I would like some advice on a configuration that
>> would be a good start to experiment with Ambisonics with height.
>> Someone suggested that I consult the wikipedia page on Ambisonics.
>> That is indeed where I got the idea that an "upper hemisphere" setup
>> might be suitable, since I only have on this occasion 16 speakers.
>> There is however no suggestion as to what a suitable hemispherical
>> configuration might be for a 16-speaker array, which is why I asked my
>> original question.
>>
>> So let me ask a new question. Given the constraint that I can only use
>> 16 speakers at the moment, and that I need to deploy this next week,
>> can somehow point me in the direction of what might be a suitable and
>> reasonable geometric configuration to try out? It seems to me that the
>> only really practical options here are two stacked rings (stacked
>> octagons) or a hemisphere. I would have thought that the hemisphere
>> would be the better choice, and in my scenario, a full lighting rig
>> allows me theoretically speaking to have speakers at the required
>> positions.
>>
>> Again, thank you for all the responses.
>>
>> - martin
>>
>>
>> On 8 February 2016 at 15:19, Martin Dupras <martindup...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'm intending to try setting up a 16-speaker Ambisonics array next
>> > week in a small TV studio. I'm trying to figure out the practical
>> > arrangements for setting up the speakers. I was wondering if anyone
>> > with experience might be able to offer some advice or point me in the
>> > right direction?
>> >
>> > What I'm planning at the moment is a half-sphere arrangement which
>> > would likely consist of:
>> >
>> > - 8 speakers in a circle of radius 2m at a height of approximately 1.6m
>> > - 6 speakers in a smaller circle at an elevation of 45 degrees
>> > - 2 speakers at an elevation of approximately 75 degrees
>> >
>> > Alternatively, I would be happy with an arrangement similar to the
>> > first 16-speakers in this diagramme:
>> >
>> http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/loudspeaker-plan-observatory.j

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

[Martin Dupras]

Plan A is more or less my backup. I'm fairly confident that I can get
that working. For my needs the verticality is more important up than
down, I would say, but it's a good point that the amount of complexity
might make it a better option for my plans next week.

I'll keep digging for a hemispherical layout though. Still not found a
single example yet.

Thanks for all the help!

- martin


On 9 February 2016 at 22:18, Michael Chapman <s...@mchapman.com> wrote:
>
> Firstly, I've never got beyond twelve (two stacked hexagons), so
> ignore my comments at your _non_-peril ;-)>
>
> It strikes me, that it all depends on what you want from height :
>
> Your initial proposal was with the base ring at ear height.
> If your vertical 'stuff' is equally 'up' and 'down' you'd be better off
> with an octagon on the floor and another the same distance above ear
> height (plan A).
>
> If the vertical 'stuff' is both complex/essential _and_ all (/almost all)
> 'up' then a hemisphere sounds a better option (plan B).
>
> Plan A is theoretically 'easy peasy', but from my experience still quite
> fiddly (and time-consuming) to set up.
> Plan B s far more 'cutting edge' (both in mechanical set-up, but not least
> in decoding, ...).
>
> If this is :
> -(sort of) your first time
> -in a few days time
> -without a dress rehearsal
> then I'd lean towards Plan A.
>
> But, hey, with that sort of caution we'd never have discovered America   .
>  .  .
>
> Good luck,
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>> Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated.
>>
>> I'll re-phrase the question in light of some of the answers I've been
>> given.
>>
>> I will be using third-order Ambisonics. My aim mostly is to experiment
>> to get a good sense of what is possible with Ambisonics with height. I
>> have experimented successfully with 8-channel planar Ambisonics some
>> time ago. My primary intent is to spatialise multiple monophonic
>> (synthesised) sources using 3rd-order Ambisonics spatialisation, and
>> the playback of mixed sources (spatialised monphonic and stereophonic
>> sources as well as B-format 4-channel recordings.)
>>
>> At this moment in time, I have the opportunity to deploy (next week) a
>> 16-channel array, so I would like some advice on a configuration that
>> would be a good start to experiment with Ambisonics with height.
>> Someone suggested that I consult the wikipedia page on Ambisonics.
>> That is indeed where I got the idea that an "upper hemisphere" setup
>> might be suitable, since I only have on this occasion 16 speakers.
>> There is however no suggestion as to what a suitable hemispherical
>> configuration might be for a 16-speaker array, which is why I asked my
>> original question.
>>
>> So let me ask a new question. Given the constraint that I can only use
>> 16 speakers at the moment, and that I need to deploy this next week,
>> can somehow point me in the direction of what might be a suitable and
>> reasonable geometric configuration to try out? It seems to me that the
>> only really practical options here are two stacked rings (stacked
>> octagons) or a hemisphere. I would have thought that the hemisphere
>> would be the better choice, and in my scenario, a full lighting rig
>> allows me theoretically speaking to have speakers at the required
>> positions.
>>
>> Again, thank you for all the responses.
>>
>> - martin
>>
>>
>> On 8 February 2016 at 15:19, Martin Dupras <martindup...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm intending to try setting up a 16-speaker Ambisonics array next
>>> week in a small TV studio. I'm trying to figure out the practical
>>> arrangements for setting up the speakers. I was wondering if anyone
>>> with experience might be able to offer some advice or point me in the
>>> right direction?
>>>
>>> What I'm planning at the moment is a half-sphere arrangement which
>>> would likely consist of:
>>>
>>> - 8 speakers in a circle of radius 2m at a height of approximately 1.6m
>>> - 6 speakers in a smaller circle at an elevation of 45 degrees
>>> - 2 speakers at an elevation of approximately 75 degrees
>>>
>>> Alternatively, I would be happy with an arrangement similar to the
>>> first 16-speakers in this diagramme:
>>> http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/loudspeaker-plan-observatory.jpg
>>>
>>> I've been trying to find out if there is a convention or "most usual"
>>> arrangement but couldn'

Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

[Martin Dupras]

I have found amplitude planning effective in some circumstances, but I
find that it's not portable, e.g. I can't deploy the same to a
different speaker arrangement, and I can't scale it down to a smaller
array while composing, among other issues.

I did funnily enough do some basic experiments with Distance-Based
Amplitude Panning with reasonably good results, I just haven't gone
much further. I've used it in some site-specific installation work to
good effect, but again it didn't strike me as being particularly
scalable or portable, hence why Ambisonics is still my first choice.

- martin


On 9 February 2016 at 22:47, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have found amplitude panning to be more effective for some applications.
>
> On 9 February 2016 at 22:42, Martin Dupras <martindup...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Out of curiosity - can I ask why you want to use ambisonics as opposed to
>> > other spatial audio techniques ?
>>
>> I'm not sure how to answer. What other techniques did you have in
>> mind? The reasons are several: I understand at least to some extent
>> Ambisonics, and I have some (but limited) experience doing it in a
>> planer array; Ambisonics are flexible and scalable; compatible with
>> some B-format that my colleagues and I have realised already and will
>> create in the near future; and can be implemented in the software that
>> I use (largely PureData and SuperCollider.)
>>
>> I don't really see which techniques seriously compete with Ambisonics,
>> but I'll very happily check them out if you point me to them.
>>
>> - martin
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>>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

[Martin Leese]

Martin Dupras wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm intending to try setting up a 16-speaker Ambisonics array next
> week in a small TV studio. I'm trying to figure out the practical
> arrangements for setting up the speakers. I was wondering if anyone
> with experience might be able to offer some advice or point me in the
> right direction?
>
> What I'm planning at the moment is a half-sphere arrangement which
> would likely consist of:
>
> - 8 speakers in a circle of radius 2m at a height of approximately 1.6m
> - 6 speakers in a smaller circle at an elevation of 45 degrees
> - 2 speakers at an elevation of approximately 75 degrees
>
> Alternatively, I would be happy with an arrangement similar to the
> first 16-speakers in this diagramme:
> http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/loudspeaker-plan-observatory.jpg
>
> I've been trying to find out if there is a convention or "most usual"
> arrangement but couldn't find anything. I'm not particularly attached
> to the actual arrangement, I just want to find an arrangement that
> will work well enough with 16 speakers. Any advice?

I have no experience with full-sphere systems,
so please ignore everything I say.

You don't say what order of Ambisonics you
will be using.  With first-order all speakers
cooperate to localise a sound, so that when
speakers above push those below pull.  It
therefore helps to have speakers placed above
and below the height of the listeners' ears.
Your proposed arrangement does not appear
to do this, while the Observatory Vilnius
arrangement does.  With higher orders this is
less of a concern.

If the material you will be using is mostly
horizontal-only then many speakers level with
the listeners' ears helps.  If the material makes
full use of the whole sphere then the closer you
can get to a Platonic solid the better.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

[Martin Dupras]

Hi,

I'm intending to try setting up a 16-speaker Ambisonics array next
week in a small TV studio. I'm trying to figure out the practical
arrangements for setting up the speakers. I was wondering if anyone
with experience might be able to offer some advice or point me in the
right direction?

What I'm planning at the moment is a half-sphere arrangement which
would likely consist of:

- 8 speakers in a circle of radius 2m at a height of approximately 1.6m
- 6 speakers in a smaller circle at an elevation of 45 degrees
- 2 speakers at an elevation of approximately 75 degrees

Alternatively, I would be happy with an arrangement similar to the
first 16-speakers in this diagramme:
http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/loudspeaker-plan-observatory.jpg

I've been trying to find out if there is a convention or "most usual"
arrangement but couldn't find anything. I'm not particularly attached
to the actual arrangement, I just want to find an arrangement that
will work well enough with 16 speakers. Any advice?

The other thing I would welcome is advice on how to mount the speakers
to lighting rigs in a manner that is practical enough to offer some
good compromise between precision and ease of setup. I believe the
speakers we'll be using for the upper tiers will be Genelec 8060s.

Many thanks. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

- martin
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

[Martin Dupras]

That's very useful. Thanks, Dave.

- martin


On 8 February 2016 at 17:40, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> The other thing I would welcome is advice on how to mount the speakers
>> to lighting rigs in a manner that is practical enough to offer some
>> good compromise between precision and ease of setup. I believe the
>> speakers we'll be using for the upper tiers will be Genelec 8060s.
>
>
> There do seem to be suitable mountings, though I can't find any mention of
> the 8060.
>
> http://www.genelec.com/sites/default/files/media/Studio%20monitors/Accessories/genelec_accessories_brochure.pdf
>
> That is , if you can find them to hire, and afford them
>
> Ciao,
>
> Dave Hunt
>
>
>>
>> From: Martin Dupras <martindup...@gmail.com>
>> Date: 8 February 2016 15:19:08 GMT
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
>> Subject: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical
>> arrangement
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm intending to try setting up a 16-speaker Ambisonics array next
>> week in a small TV studio. I'm trying to figure out the practical
>> arrangements for setting up the speakers. I was wondering if anyone
>> with experience might be able to offer some advice or point me in the
>> right direction?
>>
>> What I'm planning at the moment is a half-sphere arrangement which
>> would likely consist of:
>>
>> - 8 speakers in a circle of radius 2m at a height of approximately 1.6m
>> - 6 speakers in a smaller circle at an elevation of 45 degrees
>> - 2 speakers at an elevation of approximately 75 degrees
>>
>> Alternatively, I would be happy with an arrangement similar to the
>> first 16-speakers in this diagramme:
>>
>> http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/loudspeaker-plan-observatory.jpg
>>
>> I've been trying to find out if there is a convention or "most usual"
>> arrangement but couldn't find anything. I'm not particularly attached
>> to the actual arrangement, I just want to find an arrangement that
>> will work well enough with 16 speakers. Any advice?
>>
>> The other thing I would welcome is advice on how to mount the speakers
>> to lighting rigs in a manner that is practical enough to offer some
>> good compromise between precision and ease of setup. I believe the
>> speakers we'll be using for the upper tiers will be Genelec 8060s.
>>
>> Many thanks. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - martin
>
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Re: [Sursound] YouTube adds ambisonics support

[Martin Leese]

Andres Cabrera wrote:
> Very interesting.
>
> I'm wondering if it's worth considering separating the order for horizontal
> vs. vertical (instead of a single unified order).

This mixed order scheme, specifying #H and
#P, has the disadvantage that as a source
leaves the horizontal, its sharpness degrades
rapidly to that of the height-order.  An
alternative scheme, which does not have this
problem, is "Complete mixed-order sets".  This
would also require two numbers to be specified,
#H and #V, and is described at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed-order_Ambisonics#Complete_mixed-order_sets_.28.23H.23V.29

However, I don't know of anybody who has
experience with decoding such sets.

The most general solution, and the one I would
promote, is to combine both schemes and
specify three numbers, #H, #P, and #V.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Is the LP SV-95002(D) UHJ-encoded?

[Martin Leese]

Geoffrey Barton wrote:

> Yes I was, inasmuch as there was only one recording, which went straight
> into UHJ 2ch PCM.

Hi Geoffrey,

Thank you for this.  If I have understood you
correctly, the B-Format was not archived (only
the two-channel UHJ) so there could not have
been a different mix.

Steven Dive wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> The Discogs site has the DKP 9001 version. Is this of any use?

Discogs.com lists four versions:
1.  DKP 9001
2.  DKP 9001
3.  SV-95002
4.  SV-95002 D  (should be "SV-95002(D)")

I assume 1 and 2 are duplicates.  I own 4,
which states on the sleeve:
   "The finest vinyl in the world (Japanese
CD-4 type) has been used for the pressings
..."
I assume 3, instead, used crappy vinyl :-)

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Is the LP SV-95002(D) UHJ-encoded?

[Martin Leese]

Hi All,

I have recently purchased the 1980 LP "First
Men in the Moon", SV-95002(D) on the
Starlog/Varese Sarabande label.  This is an
original motion picture score, conducted by
Laurie Johnson.  As far as I can tell, this is the
US release of the Unicorn-Kanchana label LP
DKP 9001.  DKP 9001 is UHJ-encoded; is
SV-95002(D)?

UHJ is not mentioned on the record or sleeve,
although the sleeve does state that a Calrec
Soundfield microphone was used.  Could
there have been different mixes for the UK
and US releases?  Geoffrey Barton was the
recording engineer on other recordings in this
series, so he probably was for this one as well.

The Ambisonic UHJ Discography lists only the
UK release DKP 9001; visit:
http://www.surrounddiscography.com/uhjdisc/ambindex.htm

Many thanks,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] SQ QUAD

[Martin Leese]

David Pickett wrote:

> I dont expect them to ever sound as good as an Ambisonic recording,
> but I bought some SQ-encoded LPs today.  I get pleasant results
> playing them out of phase with the same on two rear channels at -6 dB.
>
> My reason for writing is to ask whether anyone here knows what an SQ
> decoder actually did.  Despite all the BS Ben Bauer spouted when he
> presented it to the AES in London (or was it the BKSTS?), I seem to
> recall that it wasnt too sophisticated and perhaps, knowing this, one
> can synthesize something better than the above in a DAW.

MAG's distaste for SQ is well documented,
and in December 1977 there was even a fight
between him and Benjamin Bauer on the
pages of New Scientist.  (This was refereed
by Barry Fox (writing as Adrian Hope).)

However, in July and August 1977 (refs at end),
Gerzon published the design of an Ambisonic
decoder that included an SQ mode (along with
nine other modes).   In Part 1, Gerzon wrote:
   "SQ decoders cannot be designed to give
full ambisonic results; there is even a
mathematical theorem to this effect.  The
decoder for SQ provided is, however, less
phasey in quality than the SQ designs on
the market, and was designed specifically
for incorporation into this design.  It is not
in accordance with CBS Laboratories' SQ
specification, but in the author's opinion, it
is better than decoders that are."

In Part 2, the equations for decoding SQ are
given as:
W'' = 0.73*Sum
X'' = -0.73*j*Sum
Y'' = 0.73*Diff - 0.73*j*Diff
where Sum = Left + Right
and Diff = Left - Right

As far as I can tell, W'' is the W' signal after
the shelf filters (and the SQ mode did not use
shelf filters).  Also the W' signal appears to be
the W signal after removal of the Sqrt(2)
weighting.  Anyone interested in implementing
this decoder will need to read the refs, which
will be somewhere in the Ambisonic
Motherlode.

Regards,
Martin

Michael Gerzon, "Multi-System Ambisonic
Decoder":
Part 1: "Basic Design Philosophy",
Wireless World, vol. 83 no. 1499,
pp. 43-47 (1977 July).
Part 2: "Main Decoder Circuits",
Wireless World, vol. 83 no. 1500,
pp. 69-73 (1977 Aug.).
later parts never written & published.

-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

[Martin Leese]

Charles Veasey wrote:
> Martin -
>
> To clarify the use of the subs within a tetrahedral array, it would require
> the subs to be elevated off the floor?

At least one, as described by Michael.

> Given the weight of most subs, this
> seems a bit difficult in practice. Thoughts?

Then try three subs (arranged in a triangle)
to decode to 360 deg horizontal-only.  For
localisation, three is not as good as four but is
better than two.

Note this all assumes that the standing waves
excited in the room will not screw-up any hope
of low-frequency localisation.  Keeping the
subs away from the room corners will help with
this.  (Your mileage may vary.)

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

[Martin Leese]

Charles Veasey wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the information!
>
> Using four subs was mentioned a couple of times. I've never used or
> experienced more than two in an array. What is the justification? I assume
> that given a square room, you'd place one in each corner?

With Ambisonics, using three subs (arranged
in a triangle) you can decode to 360°
horizontal-only.  Using four subs (arranged in
a tetrahedron) you can decode to full-sphere.
Note that, because the subs are sent only low
frequencies, you can use a single-band
"velocity" decoder.

With a dual-band Ambisonic decoder, which
also handles higher frequencies, you need
more speakers than three/four.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?

[Martin Richards]

Sent from my iPhone

> On 14 Oct 2015, at 18:31, Augustine Leudar  wrote:
> 
> Maybe out of your budget - but check out the Genelec 8351 a - they also
> have a room correction system that will work on arrays of up to 32 speakers.
> For those that do not have gear acquisition syndrome here is some
> ridiculous holywood styled marketing :
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lokCwTKjz0E
> 
> For those with G.A.S. - no. Don't click the link.
> 
> On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like to
>> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm
>> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs.
>> 
>> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only $350.
>> 
>> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my
>> situation?
>> 
>> thanks,
>> Charles
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [Sursound] Release of VVEncode

[Martin Dupras]

Add me as another voice in favour of AU!

- martin


On 7 October 2015 at 14:34, Steven Boardman <boardroomout...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Consider me a tester too!
>
> I use all plugin formats in many different apps, over windows and mac osx.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> On 7 Oct 2015, at 14:21, David McGriffy <da...@mcgriffy.com> wrote:
>
> > So my not so subtle plea for an AU beta tester has worked!
> >
> > Seriously, it's easy for me to produce an AU binary.  I'm working in the
> > wonderful Juce C++ framework which manages not just common source, but
> > common binary across all the plugin formats (VST3 too, if anyone cares?).
> > In theory, all I have to do is set a switch or two and recompile.  In
> > reality, I have to figure out how to package, test, install, document and
> > support it.  If there doesn't turn out to be enough interest for all
> that,
> > perhaps I could produce special versions for users who either don't need
> > much support or whose feedback is worth it.
> >
> > David
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Ronald C.F. Antony <r...@cubiculum.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from a crippled mobile device
> >>
> >>> On 6 Oct 2015, at 17:08, David McGriffy <da...@mcgriffy.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> (and AU if there is demand)
> >>
> >> Consider this me declaring demand :)
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Re: [Sursound] [OT] Recording uni lectures ...

[Martin Leese]

"Michael Chapman" wrote:
> Sorry 'off topic' but as we have so many academic list members ...
>
> A hearing-impaired student (not profoundly deaf) is having difficulty with
> lectures and wants (with the faculty's knowledge) to record them for later
> listening.
>
> I was asked for suggestions.
> (Why the lecture theatre does not, in 2015) have a 'loop' I know not ...
>
> I've had several ideas, but all from 'first principles', so won't bore you
> with hypotheses.
>
> Anyone with bright ideas and/or experience please send details ...

Install a temporary hearing loop.  That way
you don't have to bother recording.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] SoundField rental in Spain

[Martin Richards]

 Thanks Rafael,I decided to go for the mod as it is reasonably prices and I 
agree that it's good to lower the noise floor as much as possible especially as 
I use on high gain and record chamber music. Will let you know if I notice a 
difference though so far I've been delighted wth the results as have the 
artists recorded (all non-commercial for professional musician friends as a 
hobby for me). I mix to FO8 but also plan to try some binaural processing 
soon.Regards,Martin
  

 From: Rafael Hidalgo rafa.palm...@gmail.com
 To: sursound@music.vt.edu 
 Sent: Friday, 26 June 2015, 10:37
 Subject: [Sursound] SoundField rental in Spain
   
Hi Martin.
I have not a reference from myself to compare the difference, because I bought 
the recorder directly from BusmanAudio with the 6 preamps moded. 

Before, I was looking in internet for a reference of the improvement of a moded 
one, and some people in gearslutz wrote is a litle bit quiet in hi gain, and 
some goldenears found the differences. 

A known floor noise of the dr-680 in high gain is from the phantom power, and 
the Busman mod changes some components on the preamps, like some condensers and 
the opamps, and those condensers could be the solution on that kind of noise, 
but not all.

Because the Tetramic have a known noise floor highest than others mics like a 
SF ST350, I thought: less noise always is better, then I decided for this 
option.

Also I choosed this way because when I bought it the price in Europe was higher 
than now, 1000€, and similar to the moded unit, but without moded.

I dont tried to power the tetramic from the PPAs, may be go less floor noise on 
the recordings.

There are a lot of literature about the Busman mods, but not too much to 
compared files. You can check for yourself in a recent treaht on gearslutz, 
there are some files with and without modded ins: 
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/980920-busman-dr-680-mod.html

Rafa.
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Re: [Sursound] SoundField rental in Spain

[Martin Richards]

Dear Rafael,I have the same set-up with Coresound and Tascam and am curious 
about the Busman Mod - what improvement do you notice and do you consider it 
worthwhile. I'm UK based so less convenient to ship for a mod.Best Regards,
Martin Richards

  From: Rafael Hidalgo rafa.palm...@gmail.com
 To: sursound@music.vt.edu 
 Sent: Friday, 19 June 2015, 23:59
 Subject: [Sursound] SoundField rental in Spain
   


Hi Daniel, I seen you are looking for rent a SoundField mic in Spain, I have 
not one, but I have a Core Sound Tetramic and a Tascam DR-680 Busman Audio 
moded, may be you are interested in it if you dont have any other option. I'm 
close to Bilbao, not so far from Gijon.

Rafael Hidalgo

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Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics and Binaural in Reaper

[Martin Richards]

Many thanks - look forward to trying at the weekend. Martin

Sent from my iPhone

 On 27 May 2015, at 21:49, James Anthony Enda Bates bate...@tcd.ie wrote:
 
 Hi Jake/Martin, here are those videos I mentioned.
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ5sdldXo-Y
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cDAVFWMiEw
 
 They're somewhat rough and ready, but they should give you the basic idea
 of  how to setup ambisonics encoding and decoding to binaural in Reaper.
 The AmbiX suite have a number of really useful plugins (thanks Matthias!)
 including a binaural decoder. There's also a very handy converter plugin to
 shift between different formulations of ambisonics (Furse-Malham, SN3, etc)
 and the video shows how you can use this to mix and match different
 encoders and decoders (the Wigware and Ambi-X plugins are used in the
 video).
 
 So, if you have a piece encoded using the WigWare plugins, you don't need
 to replace all of the encoders with the AmbiX plugins (or do some math!) in
 order to use the AmbiX decoder.
 
 The second video shows how to decode a soundfield mic recording
 specifically, and if I get a chance, I'll try to put together some template
 Reaper projects too.
 All the best,
 Enda
 
 - www.endabates.net
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Re: [Sursound] Tiny ultrasonic ambisonics for mice

[Martin Leese]

Spencer Russell wrote:

 A colleague asked me a question about how to represent spatial audio to
 a mouse in some experiments.  The mouse's head is fixed so the sweet
 spot can be pretty small. I was thinking about 4 speakers in a quad
 configuration doing ambisonics, but not sure how well the spatialization
 would work in the high frequencies. I didn't get a precise bandwidth but
 I think they want to play pulses in the 10-30kHz. range).

 Is this crazy?


Not crazy, but there are some difficulties.
Using only four speakers means first-order
horizontal-only Ambisonic replay.  A first-order
decoder makes assumptions about how
humans localize sound.  Maybe mice use the
same localization cues as humans, but how
would you test this?  Using higher-order
Ambisonics will help, here, as such decoders
make less use of perceptual cues.

Also, mice have much smaller heads than
humans, so the transition frequency of the
first-order dual-band decoder will need to be
shifted higher.  In theory, a decoder for
humans has a transition frequency of 700 Hz
as this gives a distance between the ears of
half a wavelength.  (In a practical decoder, the
transition frequency is decreased to 400 Hz to
better accommodate off-center listeners.)
I don't offhand know the distance between the
ears of a mouse.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] ambisonic.xyz

[Martin Richards]

I make a limited number of live recordings of concerts as a hobby and have some 
recent ambisonic recordings made with the coresound/Tascam DR680 combo of 
classical (baroque) chamber music (by professional performers). I'd like to 
make a binaural version available to the players in addition to the stereo 
version. Is there a freeware version out there for windows (don't have mac)? I 
may be able to make some of the recording available to ambisonic.xyz and will 
look into this depending on their willingness.Thanks,Martin Richards
 

 From: Bo-Erik Sandholm bo-erik.sandh...@ericsson.com
 To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu 
 Sent: Monday, 25 May 2015, 8:54
 Subject: Re: [Sursound] ambisonic.xyz
   
http://elevr.com/audio-for-vr-film/
They seems to have made progress during the latest months, I had not read the 
site for a while, so please do read the website, it looks like a good 
opportunity if we can assist them.
Some of us have the knowledge, can we assist them in a open source way?

Best Regards
Bo-Erik

-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bo-Erik 
Sandholm
Sent: den 25 maj 2015 09:00
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ambisonic.xyz

Hi Marc

How hard is it for you to take it one step further? 

That is to have a full screen 360 degrees panorama picture instead of the 
rotating head?

Then follow this up by these additions:
Control the view direction using a 3D directional headtracker bvia a Javascript 
that is receving the direction information via either:
    - This solution implemented by Mathias 
http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2091 using OSC messages
    - Or the same sensor Hardware with addition of Bluetooth and other 
transmission protocol used by Hector Centeno 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOsfo8or_0E

Then you can give me a low cost VR experience if I hang an IPad in front of my 
eyes on a stupid looking holder :-)

The next step is to add full support for height in ambisonics and Spherical 
panoramas like google street view,  maybe you can duplicate the control signals 
and couple the view control of a google street view with a background ambisonic 
soundtrack from another website?

Us ambisonics guys could record a few environmental could tracks for a few  
locations, 
https://www.instantstreetview.com/@59.329495,18.072078,145.92h,3.88p,1z I can 
provid a recording for this location if wanted :-)

 - and the ultimate version is of course Stereoscopic video ,
Ideas around this can be seen here  http://elevr.com/audio-for-vr-film/ and 
they have even heard of ambisonics but have only fixed stereo so far but 3D 
surround video

Best Regards
Bo-Erik Sandholm






-Original Message-
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Marc Lavallée
Sent: den 23 maj 2015 13:44
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: [Sursound] ambisonic.xyz

Hello sursounders.

Please visit http://ambisonic.xyz/
using the Chrome browser on your desktop or laptop.

I made this demo in the form of a poster; it was presented yesterday at 
http://ix.sat.qc.ca/

--
Marc

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Re: [Sursound] ambisonic.xyz

[Martin Richards]

Hi Marc,Thanks for your reply. I suppose I misunderstand what this is all 
about. I'm looking for a way of converting B format to binaural either via the 
web or a program and since so far as I know Harpex is the only suitable program 
but for my limited use I'm reluctant to buy...Are you making a tool available 
to convert B to binaural as shown in your demo?Thanks,Martin
  From: Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net
 To: sursound@music.vt.edu 
 Sent: Monday, 25 May 2015, 12:17
 Subject: Re: [Sursound] ambisonic.xyz
   
On Mon, 25 May 2015 08:43:25 + (UTC), Martin Richards wrote:
 I make a limited number of live recordings of concerts as a hobby and
 have some recent ambisonic recordings made with the coresound/Tascam
 DR680 combo of classical (baroque) chamber music (by professional
 performers). I'd like to make a binaural version available to the
 players in addition to the stereo version. Is there a freeware
 version out there for windows (don't have mac)? I may be able to make
 some of the recording available to ambisonic.xyz and will look into
 this depending on their willingness.Thanks,Martin Richards 

Hi Martin.

What software are you referring to?

As for for the ambisonic.xyz player, I made it as an companion for a
future version of ambisonia.com (which is too old to me maintained in
its actual form); I was in the process of migrating ambisonia.com to a
static version (as an intermediate version), when I realize how a web
player could be done. So, the real project is ambisonia.com with a
player...

--
Marc


      From: Bo-Erik Sandholm bo-erik.sandh...@ericsson.com
  To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu 
  Sent: Monday, 25 May 2015, 8:54
  Subject: Re: [Sursound] ambisonic.xyz
    
 http://elevr.com/audio-for-vr-film/
 They seems to have made progress during the latest months, I had not
 read the site for a while, so please do read the website, it looks
 like a good opportunity if we can assist them. Some of us have the
 knowledge, can we assist them in a open source way?
 
 Best Regards
 Bo-Erik
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
 Bo-Erik Sandholm Sent: den 25 maj 2015 09:00
 To: Surround Sound discussion group
 Subject: Re: [Sursound] ambisonic.xyz
 
 Hi Marc
 
 How hard is it for you to take it one step further? 
 
 That is to have a full screen 360 degrees panorama picture instead of
 the rotating head?
 
 Then follow this up by these additions:
 Control the view direction using a 3D directional headtracker bvia a
 Javascript that is receving the direction information via either:
     - This solution implemented by Mathias
 http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2091 using OSC messages
     - Or the same sensor Hardware with addition of Bluetooth and
 other transmission protocol used by Hector Centeno
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOsfo8or_0E
 
 Then you can give me a low cost VR experience if I hang an IPad in
 front of my eyes on a stupid looking holder :-)
 
 The next step is to add full support for height in ambisonics and
 Spherical panoramas like google street view,  maybe you can duplicate
 the control signals and couple the view control of a google street
 view with a background ambisonic soundtrack from another website?
 
 Us ambisonics guys could record a few environmental could tracks for
 a few  locations,
 https://www.instantstreetview.com/@59.329495,18.072078,145.92h,3.88p,1z
 I can provid a recording for this location if wanted :-)
 
  - and the ultimate version is of course Stereoscopic video ,
 Ideas around this can be seen here
 http://elevr.com/audio-for-vr-film/ and they have even heard of
 ambisonics but have only fixed stereo so far but 3D surround video
 
 Best Regards
 Bo-Erik Sandholm
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
 Marc Lavallée Sent: den 23 maj 2015 13:44
 To: Surround Sound discussion group
 Subject: [Sursound] ambisonic.xyz
 
 Hello sursounders.
 
 Please visit http://ambisonic.xyz/
 using the Chrome browser on your desktop or laptop.
 
 I made this demo in the form of a poster; it was presented yesterday
 at http://ix.sat.qc.ca/
 
 --
 Marc
 
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Re: [Sursound] UHJ anyone?

[Martin Leese]

Eero Aro wrote:
...
 There was a thread about recognizing UHJ encoding some time ago,
 can't remember when. Must have been years...

November 2013.  The Subject for the thread
was UHJ disc discovery?

A quick scan of the content suggests that the
Web page you cited:
http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/ambisonics/uhjtest/

is pretty much it.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Boids for Ambisonic Panning

[Martin Leese]

umashankar manthravadi wrote:

 one more for youthe boid's on the wingno the wings are on the boid(cant
 remember it exactly or who it is by)

Spring is sprung
The grass has ris
I wonder where the birdies is
I heard the birds are on the wing
Don’t be absurd, the wing is on the bird

It seems to be traditional (ie, nobody knows
who was the original author).

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] ENVELOP - 3D Sound, on Kickstarter.com

[Martin Leese]

Hi All,

I fell across this Kickstarter campaign.  I have
no connection, blah, blah, blah.  Does anybody
know more?  Below are some extracts.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/


ENVELOP - 3D Sound

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/envelop/envelop-3d-sound

$27,333 goal

ENVELOP is a 3D sound platform that introduces an open source software
toolkit and educational initiatives to help any artist align their
creativity with new technologies for creating music in three
dimensions.

We are creating a next-generation 28.4 speaker audiovisual system that
features innovative technology to move sound in space around the
audience from any direction. ENVELOP is new environment for artists to
create and perform music in 3D surround sound.

The foundation of ENVELOP’s technology is Ambisonics

Not-for-profit and Open Source

Developers: Roddy Lindsay, Elan Rosenman, Christopher Willits, and Andrew Kimpel
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Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?

[Martin Leese]

Sampo Syreeni wrote:

 True. But then, at the same time, have you ever truly heard sounds from
 right below yourself? Does even the human auditory system *really* know
 what it means to hear something from below?

 Think about it or awhile. In the psychoacoustic sense there actually
 might not even *be* such a thing due below.

It might help if you think of this as from the
direction of your feet as opposed to due
below.  This is normal when you are lying flat
on your back in bed.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Call for works - reach - a non-stop playlist of bFormat sound and music

[Martin Parker]

Dear SurSound - calling composers and field recordists
I’m putting together a non-stop playlist of bFormat works to play through 
December as part of ‘gap in the air’, a four month-long sound festival at 
Talbot Rice Gallery in Edinburgh - https://digital.eca.ed.ac.uk/gap-in-air. I’d 
like to invite members of this list to send works in if you have something that 
you think will fit. We’re trying to show a wide range of approaches to 
composing with space and recording sound. We’re interested in fully formed 
pieces, interesting/special field recordings and even one-off sound events.

The main conditions for inclusion are that you grant us permission to play the 
sound in the space and that (if a piece of music) the work is yours. We’re also 
looking for technical simplicity so would like the works to arrive in 
four-channel WXYZ bformat .wav. Everything will play at 44.1kHz so please SRC 
the file before sending it in should you need to.

If you want to have your work considered for this playlist please send me a 
link to a dropbox (or other) folder that contains a .zip of the bformat file 
(WXYZ), a photo/album cover if this is relevant, and a text file with the 
following information:

your name
title of the piece
duration
a short description of the piece (1 paragraph - for display in the gallery)
more extended notes if you wish these to be available online

The deadline for this is end of next week Friday 14th November, we’ll be glad 
to consider submissions after this date but given the time it will take to sort 
through everything and put the playlist together, this is my nominal cut off 
date.  Preference for inclusion on the playlist will be shorter tracks as we 
want gallery visitors to get a sense of the range of work that’s out there and 
what’s possible with ambisonics, some longer pieces will also be included.

A technical note: we’ll be decoding the 4 channel files to a 12 (possibly 16) 
channel rig. The room is a Georgian gallery space, so this will colour the 
sound significantly, I’ll attempt to balance the pieces in the room to give the 
best effect for each work, but abandon any hope of their being a clear 
sweetspot. The sound will certainly envelop the listener and fill the room but 
a sense of a solid 'image’ will be fleeting.

Incidentally if you wish to come to Edinburgh, we’ll host a panel discussion on 
sound spatialisation in gallery spaces on the 15th December. Would be great to 
meet some of you at this.

Best wishes
Martin~

martin.par...@ed.ac.uk
Programme Director, MSc Sound Design
http://soundeducation.net

Sound Lab Edinburgh:
http://sites.ace.ed.ac.uk/sdresearch/

Tel. +44(0)131 650 2333
Mob. +44(0)7813 217 092
www.tinpark.com

Postal address:
MSc Sound Design
c/o Dr. Martin Parker
Edinburgh College of Art
Alison House
12 Nicolson Square
Edinburgh
EH8 9DF, UK

Google Map:
http://maps.google.co.uk/?q=eh8+9df

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Re: [Sursound] No more daily digest?

[Martin Leese]

Daniel Courville wrote:
 I subscribe to the daily digest, but it seems that it's now sent, well,
 now and then.

 I've just received one containing 34 messages. The one before that was on
 October 1st with 45 messages. And the one before that was on September 6.

 Am I the only one?

Nope, I am in the same boat.  Also, this is a
pest for me because Google Mail then
truncates the overly long e-mail messages.

I have passed the problem onto the list owner,
who is working on it.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] £100,000 for 3D sound development

[Martin Leese]

Hi All,

Spotted this in the Engineering  Technology
magazine:

£100,000 for 3D sound development

A University of Huddersfield researcher aims
to bring sound reproduction into the 3D age
with a new system that would allow not only
horizontal but also vertical distribution of
sound.

Here is a link to the entire (brief) article:
http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2014/oct/3d-sound-development.cfm

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] £100,000 for 3D sound development

[Martin Leese]

On 10/21/14, Martin Leese martin.le...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
...
 Here is a link to the entire (brief) article:
 http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2014/oct/3d-sound-development.cfm

Here are a couple more links:
http://www.hud.ac.uk/news/2014/october/100kprojecttounderstandhowthebrainhears3dsound.php
http://gow.epsrc.ac.uk/NGBOViewGrant.aspx?GrantRef=EP/L019906/1

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Splitting a 10.2 file

[Martin Leese]

Eero Aro wrote:
...
 It's a command line program. Very fast. Needs lotsa careful typing.

Or sloppy typing into a text editor to create a
BAT file.  Then execute the BAT file.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] BBC Proms in 4.0

[Martin Leese]

David Pickett wrote:
...
 Regarding the lack of browser choice, I agree that it would be nice
 if all adhered to the HTML5 standard; but they dont.  (What's the
 point of useful standards -- i.e. the HTML5 media tag -- if not
 everbody uses them?)

I am sure it doesn't help that there is no actual
HTML5 standard, as yet.  That is to say, there
is no *ratified* standard.  The last time I looked,
a ratified standard was scheduled for late 2014.
Hopefully, when this happens, browsers will
make an extra effort to adhere to it.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics rig - loudspeakers directivity

[Martin Leese]

Dave Malham wrote:

 We had a rig in our original Music Technology room consisting of four Quad
 electrostatics (the original ones!) suspended about a metre and a half
 below the sloping wooden ceiling so they were above head height but angled
 so they were directed at a central head height point. The array worked very
 well at reproducing 1st order pieces on the horizontal but generated
 spurious 'up' (and 'down') images which we traced to reflections of the
 radiation from the back of the speakers from ceiling nd walls.

In fairness to Dermot, I should point out that
elsewhere in his 1996 post (in a part I did not
quote) he wrote:

   It would appear that, in general, lively
listening environments are preferable as
long as strong early reflections are avoided.
and:
   Use of reflecting diffusors would therefore
appear to be recommended such that
strong specular reflections are avoided but
significant liveness is maintained.

Dermot's post is preserved at:
http://www.ambisonia.com/Members/mleese/dermot/

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics rig - loudspeakers directivity

[Martin Leese]

Sero wrote:
...
 What is the best loudspeaker directivity (polar pattern) for an ambisonics
 listening rig?

 I am very confused about this because I cannot find any reference on this
 on any pubblication or discussion on the net.

The only work I know on this is a study by
Dermot Furlong using a simulator.  He
discussed his work on the sursound list in
1996; I have it preserved at:
http://www.ambisonia.com/Members/mleese/dermot/

Dermot considered only first-order Ambisonics.
Here is an extract:

  I am very well
   aware that ideal point source loudspeakers are usually
   specified for ambisonic reconstruction, but their
   directivities are not generally commented on, so
   perhaps this is of interest.  And yes I know that most
   loudspeakers have frequency dependent directivities -
   I was trying to address the more basic question as
   to what was the effect of loudspeaker polar response
   on reconstruction.  What I found was that for
   reasonably dead listening rooms, loudspeaker
   directivity was not a major issue - as long as omni
   radiation patterns were not used!  However, for more
   live listening spaces the effect of loudspeaker
   directivity did play a significant role.  Curiously perhaps,
   in cases of more 'dead' listening rooms, dipole
   loudspeaker directivities were found to lead to
   reconstruction of Listener Preference Indices which was
   as good as that of more directional loudspeaker polar
   patterns. Furthermore, as the room was made
   more lively, the reconstruction with dipole loudspeakers
   was consistently and significantly better than
   was the case with more directional loudspeakers!  This
   was a surprise to me, and I did look at the
   implementation very closely to check everything was
   working properly... but this remains a consistent
   observation... for all reconstruction formats!

Regards,
Martin
-- 
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E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] MULTI - 3d-audio concert in Bergen, Norway, 26th June

[Martin Parker]

Dear Anders, please forgive this unsolicited email, but I noticed your message 
on Surround Sound and thought I’d offer a project for your rig/concerts series 
this autumn, if you’re not already fully booked up. 
I’ve just begun re-patching most of my Max projects now to be adaptable to 
nSpeaker setups and I’m using ambisonics to do it. 
In particular, I have a live electronics piece called gruntCount that I would 
like to update as a number of performers that play with this piece like to work 
in multi-channel spaces all around the world. I’d really like a good excuse to 
make it ambisonic compatible and just wondered if you’d be interested in a 
performance using your rig.
The piece is semi-improvised for solo instrumentalist and computer. They are 
very tightly linked together as the sound of the player actually drives the 
piece forwards. 
A CD of the first run of versions was released on sumtone’s band camp label and 
I’d be glad to send you a link to a lossless download of this if you’re 
interested. 
http://sumtone.bandcamp.com/
I suspect that it might be good fun to try using a live microphone in a space 
with all of these speakers ; ). I’ve worked very closely with Anne La Berge 
(flute) on this and we have a very nice new version of the piece (which is 
different every time), but sounds like this please note, this is a single take 
documentary recording of a workshop we did last week, not a finished / polished 
release.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3djt95gl0z2m3n/fluteCount-version3.mp3

This kind of thing could perhaps spatialise very well across a wide rig like 
the one you describe.
Let me know if you’re interested in talking further. 
Meanwhile, I wish you all the best for your concert later this week. 
Martin~

On 24 Jun 2014, at 10:27, anders.vin...@bek.no wrote:

 Hi list.
 
 FYI, there's a concert in Bergen next Thursday, at Lydgalleriet, a
 skewed shoe-box shaped room in the old-town of Bergen.
 
 The setup is a quasi 24ch hemisphere, 9+9+5+1, somewhat irregular to
 accommodate the room-shape, mounting options and audience-seating.
 
 The concert on thursday will be the 3rd concert using the same rig in
 this venue.  The program this time consists of VBAP or Ambisonics-coded
 pieces, composed by:
 
 Åke Parmerud
 Ludger Brummer
 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
 Natasha Barrett
 Anders Vinjar
 
 More details about the music is available online:
 
 https://underskog.no/kalender/102648_lydgalleriet-bek-presents-an-ambisonics-concert-feat-Åk/forestilling/168666
 
 Various ambisonics decoders are used to either recode the VBAP pieces or
 decode the native Ambisonics pieces.  Of special interest this time is
 testing optimized decoders calculated using Aaron Hellers Ambisonic
 Decoder Toolbox, setting up config-files for ambdec or Faust-generated
 decoders.
 
 We're aiming at setting up further concerts (4-5) during the autumn, and
 will test and compare various approaches to decoder design for the
 Shoebox.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Anders Vinjar
 
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Martin~

martin.par...@ed.ac.uk
Programme Director, MSc Sound Design
http://soundeducation.net

Sound Lab Edinburgh:
http://sites.ace.ed.ac.uk/sdresearch/

Tel. +44(0)131 650 2333
Mob. +44(0)7813 217 092
www.tinpark.com

Postal address:
MSc Sound Design
c/o Dr. Martin Parker
Edinburgh College of Art
Alison House
12 Nicolson Square
Edinburgh
EH8 9DF, UK

Google Map:
http://maps.google.co.uk/?q=eh8+9df

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Re: [Sursound] MULTI - 3d-audio concert in Bergen, Norway, 26th June

[Martin Parker]

Apologies all, please disregard that message, it was meant for Anders only. I 
hit send in haste and failed to rip out my ethernet cable in time...
Best wishes
Martin~

On 24 Jun 2014, at 11:33, Martin Parker martin.par...@ed.ac.uk wrote:

 Dear Anders, please forgive this unsolicited email, but I noticed your 
 message on Surround Sound and thought I’d offer a project for your 
 rig/concerts series this autumn, if you’re not already fully booked up. 
 ….

 On 24 Jun 2014, at 10:27, anders.vin...@bek.no wrote:
 
 Hi list.
 
 FYI, there's a concert in Bergen next Thursday, at Lydgalleriet, a
 skewed shoe-box shaped room in the old-town of Bergen.
 
 The setup is a quasi 24ch hemisphere, 9+9+5+1, somewhat irregular to
 accommodate the room-shape, mounting options and audience-seating.
 
 The concert on thursday will be the 3rd concert using the same rig in
 this venue.  The program this time consists of VBAP or Ambisonics-coded
 pieces, composed by:
 
 Åke Parmerud
 Ludger Brummer
 Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
 Natasha Barrett
 Anders Vinjar
 
 More details about the music is available online:
 
 https://underskog.no/kalender/102648_lydgalleriet-bek-presents-an-ambisonics-concert-feat-Åk/forestilling/168666
 
 Various ambisonics decoders are used to either recode the VBAP pieces or
 decode the native Ambisonics pieces.  Of special interest this time is
 testing optimized decoders calculated using Aaron Hellers Ambisonic
 Decoder Toolbox, setting up config-files for ambdec or Faust-generated
 decoders.
 
 We're aiming at setting up further concerts (4-5) during the autumn, and
 will test and compare various approaches to decoder design for the
 Shoebox.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Anders Vinjar
 
 ___
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 Sursound@music.vt.edu
 https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
 account or options, view archives and so on.
 
 Martin~
 
 martin.par...@ed.ac.uk
 Programme Director, MSc Sound Design
 http://soundeducation.net
 
 Sound Lab Edinburgh:
 http://sites.ace.ed.ac.uk/sdresearch/
 
 Tel. +44(0)131 650 2333
 Mob. +44(0)7813 217 092
 www.tinpark.com
 
 Postal address:
 MSc Sound Design
 c/o Dr. Martin Parker
 Edinburgh College of Art
 Alison House
 12 Nicolson Square
 Edinburgh
 EH8 9DF, UK
 
 Google Map:
 http://maps.google.co.uk/?q=eh8+9df
 
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Martin~

martin.par...@ed.ac.uk
Programme Director, MSc Sound Design
http://soundeducation.net

Sound Lab Edinburgh:
http://sites.ace.ed.ac.uk/sdresearch/

Tel. +44(0)131 650 2333
Mob. +44(0)7813 217 092
www.tinpark.com

Postal address:
MSc Sound Design
c/o Dr. Martin Parker
Edinburgh College of Art
Alison House
12 Nicolson Square
Edinburgh
EH8 9DF, UK

Google Map:
http://maps.google.co.uk/?q=eh8+9df

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Re: [Sursound] And now for something different...

[Martin Leese]

Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote:

 Is there a way to get a personalized HRTF (or even one near mine) with out
 spending many hundreds of the coins of your choice or travelling to a
 distant destination?

No but, if the Microsoft stuff works out, there
might be.

 Is there a standard format for HRTFS that can be used in several softwares
 or even converted?

The answer is, again, no.  However, to state
the obvious, if HRTFs are going to fly then
there needs to be.  Is this a task for the AES
and/or the EBU?

To continue stating the obvious, most
audio-only listening currently takes place using
ear-buds plugged into players or phones.  This
doesn't look like it is going to change anytime
soon.  Binaural with personalized HRTFs would
improve this listening experience.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] And now for something different...

[Martin Leese]

Dave Malham wrote:

 Oh, for cryin' out loud. Makes you want to weep - Microsoft reinventing
 again what's already been done and (most of) the rest of the world
 believing they're the originators...

I am no fan of Microsoft, but this seems a little
harsh.  Quickly producing an approximate
personalized HRTF using only head and
shoulders is new, and potentially useful.

From the MIT Technology Review article:

That somewhat eerie experience was made
possible because less than a minute earlier I
had sat down in front of a Kinect 3-D sensor
and been turned briefly to the left and right.
Software built a 3-D model of my head and
shoulders and then used that model to
calculate a personalized filter that made it
possible to fool my auditory senses.
...
Tashev’s system is a new twist on an old idea.
...
When Tashev quickly scans a person’s head,
his software generates an approximation of
that subject’s HRTF that seems good enough
to produce unusually accurate spatial audio.
...
Tashev says he is now working to improve the
capture system and make it smooth and
speedy enough to be something a person with
a Kinect camera might be able to do at home.

Mark Billinghurst ... says that the approach
developed by Microsoft could have a broad
impact if the scanning process can be made
practical enough.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] HELP: Any methods on producing 3D audio in stereo?

[Martin Leese]

YL wrote:

 Hi, there,
 I'm radio program producer and recently my boss asked me to think about how
 to produce 3D audio in stereo.

It is not clear to me what you hope to achieve;
more information would be helpful.  By
produce 3D audio do you mean full-sphere
surround sound, or horizontal-only surround
sound?  By produce ... in stereo do you
mean using only two speakers, or two
transmission channels and more than two
speakers?

For horizontal-only surround sound with two
transmission channels (and four to six
speakers) use UHJ-encoding.  However, this
will require a decoder in the listener's living
room.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Ambisonia.com is down

[Martin Leese]

Marc Lavall?e m...@hacklava.net wrote:
 Hi Jim.

 I'm the maintainer for Ambisonia.

Hi Marc,

As requested, I am contacting you off-list.
Ambisonia.com appears to be down.  I get the
following error when accessing
http://www.ambisonia.com/:

Proxy Error

The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
The proxy server could not handle the request GET /.

Reason: Error reading from remote server

Ambisonia.com is still on my morning list of
links to check, back from when there were
plans to revive the Wiki.  Having such a list of
bookmarks to check every morning is useful, I
would suggest.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] MS output to 3 loudspeakers

[Martin Leese]

Oliver Thuns wrote:

 In the EU the patent has expired

 http://www.google.com/patents/EP0643899B1?cl=en#legal-events

 don't know about the US and Canada.

Still valid in the US, visit:

https://www.google.com/patents/US5594800?pg=PA12dq=US+patent+5594800hl=ensa=Xei=ZytIU-2DIMPr2AXdyYHABAved=0CDcQ6AEwAA#legal-events

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Question about UHJ

[Martin Leese]

Stefan Schreiber wrote:
...
 Or distribute 3-4 channel UHJ, which is the stereo-compatible form of
 FOA. Of course this proposal didn't catch on, even if this should
 work. (I see this doesn't work for a CD distribution, but this is the
 only case by now. But if you chose physical distribution, you still
 could include the UHJ and/or B format version on some extra DVD. In this
 case you would not need 2-channel UHJ at all...)

3- or 4-channel UHJ is only stereo compatible
if it plays on stereo systems.  4-channel UHJ,
for example, is most likely to be interpreted as
quad, and how this is mixed down to stereo
depends on the system, I think.  You might
hear only the two front channels (which is what
you want), or the rear channels might be
mixed into the front (producing a mishmash).

Perhaps with DVD-V and/or DVD-A there is a
way of using metadata to specify the downmix
to stereo (I don't know whether this is possible,
and would be interested to hear).  In 2011, I
suggested such metadata for WAVE-EX files,
but it was not picked up; please see Example 1
at:
http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/Audio/StereoMix_chunk.html

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Question about UHJ

[Martin Leese]

Schumacher Marlon wrote:
 Hi,

 Thanks everybody for your well-considered comments.
 The reason for going for a 2-channel format is compatibility with
 distribution media formats (CD) - and I suppose it will mostly be listened
 to without a decoder.
 The possibility of recovering (2D) B-Format can be very useful, I think
 (although apparently not 100% possible).

Nimbus Records archived most of their
recordings in 2-channel UHJ.  This was fine
until, many years later, they wanted to release
to multi-channel.  Unfortunately, converting
back from UHJ to B-Format (and then to other
formats) cannot be done without loss.

If you archive in 3- or 4-channel B-Format
then you can *immediately* produce
2-channel UHJ from this.  In addition, you
could later release to other formats without any
loss.

You can only gain by archiving in B-Format;
there is no downside.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] 4 D sound (!)

[Martin Leese]

Michael Chapman wrote:
...
 I always remember one teacher commenting on speech, that you can apply*
 any standard effect and it is still intelligible, except playing it
 backwards.

 Not saying that it couldn't be learnt ...

Indeed it can.  When I was in high school,
many moons ago, there was a brief fad for
talking backwards.  The participants began by
reversing only the order of words in a
sentence, but progressed to reversing the
individual words as well.  They became very
proficient at this, and could reverse a long
sentence after only a second or two of thought.

I never took part; I thought it was silly.

Regards,
Nitram
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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[Sursound] Ambisonia.com no work

[Martin Leese]

Hi,

When I try to access Ambisonia.com, I get
a 502 Proxy Error:

The proxy server received an invalid
response from an upstream server.
The proxy server could not handle the
request GET /.

Other times I get nothing.  Is this just me, or
are other seeing the same?

Many thanks,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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Re: [Sursound] Surprise, Surprise

[Martin Leese]

Richard G Elen wrote:

 Well, this is one of mine

Many thanks to Richard for the wealth of
information.  I will remain alert for a used copy
to come up on eBay.

Regards,
Martin
-- 
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese  stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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