Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Warin]

On 30/06/18 15:08, Yves wrote:

While there is a lot of things said here in this thread, I notice that:
1 there is very little advice in the article on how to enter names in 
OSM.
2 there no comment on the blog that would give advice on how to enter 
names in OSM.


It would be the right time if OSM people would take the time to 
synthetise to WMF contributors what names are acceptable in OSM.

Do we have a good wiki page on the matter?


A lot of detail on about the name tag itself 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names


As for a specific beginers guide as to how to add a name to an OSM 
feature.. ?


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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Johnparis]

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names

I would especially encourage you to read the entire section "Avoid
transliteration", which also discusses translation issues.

On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Yves  wrote:

> While there is a lot of things said here in this thread, I notice that:
> 1 there is very little advice in the article on how to enter names in OSM.
> 2 there no comment on the blog that would give advice on how to enter
> names in OSM.
>
> It would be the right time if OSM people would take the time to synthetise
> to WMF contributors what names are acceptable in OSM.
> Do we have a good wiki page on the matter?
> Yves
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Mappen van spoorweginfrastructuur

[Marc Gemis]

dat is nochtans hoe het beschreven staat op de wiki :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Eimai/Belgian_Roads#Paths
On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:33 PM Wouter Hamelinck
 wrote:
>
>
>> > Op zich is er geen reden om die weg te splitsen: die nodes met 
>> > barrier=block zouden moeten volstaan voor routing software. En naar mijn 
>> > mening wordt die weg geen 'path' door die blokken.
>>
>> "In mijnen tijd" werd in geen enkele router rekening gehouden met barriers 
>> op wegen, vandaar dat ik de neiging heb altijd de weg te splitsen, en ook de 
>> tags op de barrier vergeet (wat nu dus inderdaad problematisch is).
>>
>> Maar als er aan beide kanten van de overweg blokken staan, wordt het deel 
>> ertussen imo de facto wel een path, dus ik zou het hier toch nog steeds 
>> splitsen.
>
>
> Dit is zo een redenering die ik echt niet volg. Soms zie ik het nog extremer 
> doorgetrokken en wordt een weg als path of footway aangegeven omwille van een 
> bord C1 (rond met rode rand) dat de toegang beperkt. Voor mij blijft een weg 
> een weg, meestal highway=unclassified. Inderdaad de toegang verandert, maar 
> daar dient de access-tag voor en niet de highway-tag naar mijn mening.
>
> wouter
>
> --
> "Den som ikke tror på seg selv kommer ingen vei."
>- Thor Heyerdahl
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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Yves]

While there is a lot of things said here in this thread, I notice that:
1 there is very little advice in the article on how to enter names in OSM. 
2 there no comment on the blog that would give advice on how to enter names in 
OSM. 

It would be the right time if OSM people would take the time to synthetise to 
WMF contributors what names are acceptable in OSM.
Do we have a good wiki page on the matter?
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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Yuri Astrakhan]

* The BIG part of the announcement is that OSM data is now being used to
create truly multilingual map with a very large exposure.  I hope some
people here are not saying that such project should not have been built? If
you want to help, see at the end.
* I do not think names should be simply copied from WD into OSM - for many
of the reasons mentioned above, plus I am not a fan of duplicate data being
out of sync.
* I do believe Kartotherian (map service used by WMF) should use Wikidata
to augment names when missing in OSM.
* The fundamental problem is that WMF refuses to do any additional maps
work. Basically there was a star tech team put together for a few months to
address overwhelming community demand for better maps, rather than spending
resources on projects that community has very little interest in.  The team
delivered some of the hot-button things, but it was dissolved to work on
other things. In other words - things that are in high demand by community
are only worked on for a short time by a small team, and then forgotten by
WMF.  "sad."
* Naming is not a local expertise. Someone in Russia would know the Russian
name for New York better than someone who actually lives in New York, but
doesn't speak the language. That said, I would think at least some
languages have a relatively well defined algorithm to transliterate foreign
names?  And only if auto-transliteration fails, or if there is an
alternative well established spelling, it should be entered into OSM/WD.
Just thinking out loud here.
* I really hope this conversation can be productive, and oriented towards
solving issues, and not an unproductive and emotional blame game. I have
helped with the maps translation project, and while I can only speak about
the engineers I spoke with, everyone there made the best efforts to bring
first truly multilingual maps to the world. Of course not all the names
data is there, and there are multiple ways to fix that. So rather than
throwing  at each other, I do hope some volunteers would step up to 1)
guide WP community on improving name situation, and best approaches
according to OSM rules, 2) help with the development effort since WMF is
not interested, 3) help organize it all.  I could try to help with (2),
send me an email if interested.

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 1:24 PM Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

>
> 29. Jun 2018 13:18 by a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk:
>
> On 29 June 2018 at 11:38, Max  wrote:
>
> "Add the missing names to OSM in your language."
>
> That is inflating the OSM database with something that Wikidata has solved
> already in a much better way. Why would someone from wikimedia recommend to
> create a less mentainable version of their database?
>
>
> Because the OSM community refuses to allow the import of data from
> Wikidata.
>
>
> Because WIkidata data is license-incompatible with OSM.
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Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

[Andrew Harvey]

For places like `St Peters` and `St Leonards` the `St` abbreviation has
become widely accepted by the community to the point that it's almost no
longer an abbreviation. So I'd say it should be `St Peters` and not use
`Saint Peters` even as an alt_name.
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Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

[Adrian Hobbs]

Maybe I am missing something here, but to my mind road and place naming 
is pretty clear cut. See:-


"Guidelines for the determination of place names" a fact sheet by the 
Geographic Names Board of NSW

http://www.gnb.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/58843/Guidelines_determination_placenames_2017.pdf

and

"6.7 Principles of Road naming" page 97 of the NSW Addressing User Manual
http://www.gnb.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/199411/2018_NSW_Addressing_User_Manual.pdf

Although these relate to NSW, I imagine there are similar arrangements 
in all states and territories.


If OSM uses anything different it will only cause difficulties. I guess 
that, as with all standards, there will be exceptions.

But OSM should then go with whatever the legal name is.

Cheers
Adrian Hobbs

tel: 0427 310 938
email: adrian.ho...@grapevine.com.au



On 29/06/2018 9:08 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

Warin wrote:

I expand these out to Saint. I think that is correct in the English
language.

It is expressly _incorrect_ in British English and if this were a UK
discussion you would be asked to put them back to St. I can't speak for
Australian English but it wouldn't surprise me if it were the same.

https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/19609/saint-or-st-is-there-an-official-osm-policy

Richard



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Re: [talk-au] Pathogen Control Stations

[Warin]

To avoid future misuse of the tag there needs to be 2 tags

One for cleansing - elimination of contaminates

The other for cleaning - beautification

If only one tag were made people would use it for both functions.
 I really do want to avoid the misuse of the tag by those who cannot be 
bothered to make a more correct tag.


In order to separate the two I like to distinguish them by using shoe 
for the beautification/cleaning and boot for the cleansing/purging.
The boot is usually seen as the more rugged of the two and usually taken 
as the thing used for bush-walking/tramping etc.


So possibly

man_made=shoe_cleaning

and

man_made=boot_cleansing
or
man_made=boot_purging

Any other ideas as to words to use?
I like that purging is a significantly different form from cleaning - 
leading to more visual separation between the two tags.


 - On 30/06/18 01:43, Jonathon Rossi wrote:

Thanks Warin,

I read your suggestion for "man_made=boot_cleansing", I'd opt for 
"man_made=shoe_cleansing" since I don't wear boots but running shoes 
as a runner not a hiker. The QPWS web site mentions "footwear", I 
think shoe would be the most inclusive term.


P.S. Sorry I didn't reply on the tagging list, don't know of any way 
to reply to that thread without having received those emails.


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 9:06 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


Don't know - nothing in OSM I can see.

I'll ask on the tagging list and see what they say.

Note .. it may well not render/show up on the maps for sometime even
once there is a tag and there are a few 100 mapped.


On 28/06/18 21:49, Jonathon Rossi wrote:
> Throughout the Gold Coast Hinterland (including Lamington and
> Springbrook National Parks) there are pathogen control stations.
These
> are designed to be used by humans to reduce soil and other
> contaminates being carried on shoes between sections of the
national
> parks.
>
> Many have big brushes (mounted facing up) to clean soil out of your
> shoes and a disinfectant applier for the base of your shoe, example
> photo:
>

https://www.npsr.qld.gov.au/parks/lamington/images/pathogen-control-station.jpg
>
> I mapped one last week in Springbrook NP, however couldn't find any
> relevant tags to apply to the node. Has anyone mapped them or seen
> them mapped in OSM before? Is there anything similar that could
be a
> relevant tag?
>
>


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Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

[Warin]

On 29/06/18 21:08, Richard Fairhurst wrote:


Warin wrote:

I expand these out to Saint. I think that is correct in the English
language.

It is expressly _incorrect_ in British English and if this were a UK
discussion you would be asked to put them back to St. I can't speak for
Australian English but it wouldn't surprise me if it were the same.

https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/19609/saint-or-st-is-there-an-official-osm-policy

Richard


Humm I'll wait until I get my hands on the OZie Govts 'Style Guide'..

However .. The UK does not look like a good guide as to what to do?

Saint Paul's Cathedral way 369161987 ...

has the name 'Saint Paul's Cathedral' (and has that name for over 2 years) .. 
surrounding features are named 'St Paul's" and others named 'Saint Paul's' .. 
rather inconsistent!

Are the signs there that inconsistent too?


There is also a suggestion to use short_name for the St abbreviation.
But I'll wait till I get the guide .. end of next week?


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[OSM-talk-fr] Fwd: [OSM-dev] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.12.1

[marc marc]

pour info, problème de perf avec le rendu différencié des way en 
fonction de leur surface, c'est annulé


 Message transféré 
Sujet : [OSM-dev] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.12.1
Date : Fri, 29 Jun 2018 04:08:38 -0700
De : Paul Norman 
Pour : d...@openstreetmap.org, t...@openstreetmap.org

Dear all,

Today, v4.12.1 of the OpenStreetMap Carto stylesheet (the default
stylesheet on the OSM website) has been released. Once changes are deployed
on the openstreetmap.org it will take couple of days before all tiles
show the new rendering.

The sole change is dropping rendering of the surface tag because the method
used was causing unacceptable performance problems. Anyone running v4.12.0
should immediately update, particularly if they have a large database.

You can view the previous changes with v4.12.0 at 
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md#v4120---2018-06-22

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] zones d'extraterritorialité / était Île de Sainte-Hélène

[marc marc]

Wikipedia dit que 2 des 4 exemples ne sont pas de l'extraterritorialité
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterritorialit%C3%A9

une zone d'extraterritorialité fait généralement toujours partie du pays 
qui l'accueil, c'est juste que ce pays a signé une convention pour 
renoncer à certains de ces droits sur cet endroit.

je me demande l'utilité de maper ce genre de convention dans osm

Le 29. 06. 18 à 14:59, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :
> Salut,
> Je relance un vieux sujet qui date de 2012 
>  : 
> je m'intéresse au statut des zones d'extraterritorialité.
> Je me suis pris d'affection pour le bureau des poids et mesures 
>  
> qui, 
> d'après ce que j'ai compris, est bien sur le territoire français mais 
> bénéficie d'un statut d'extraterritorialité.
> On indique ça comment ? à vrai dire je n'ai pas trop envie de les 
> enlever du territoire français (pour la grandeur de la France ^^) donc 
> je penche pour une indication avec un tag, mais lequel ?
> 
> Pour vous aider :
> -> Rien dans le Wiki
> 
> -> Autres cas similaires :
> -cimetière américain  sur 
> les plages du débarquement
> -les ambassades (celle-ci  
> mentionne "country=ZA")
> -un bout (?) du vatican 
> 
> 
> En espérant ne pas déclencher de conflit diplomatique international :P
> 
> -- 
> 
> *Florian Lainez*
> 
> @overflorian 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Cartographier les voies vertes

[marc marc]

Le 29. 06. 18 à 18:02, Antoine Riche a écrit :
> objections pour ouvrir la valeur du tag /highway /pour les voies vertes 
> ? Dans la majorité des cas on aura du /path/, du /cycleway/, du /track/, 
> parfois du /service /et c'est tout.

autant je suis pour l'ouverture du tag highway pour affiner
et je vois une grande différence entre path <> track road (un path est 
trop petit en largeur pour une voiture au contraire de track et "supérieur")

autant une voie verte sur une highway=service... je me demande quel cas 
concret cela représente. une voie verte qui traverse un parking ?
est-ce encore une voie verte lorsque le vélo se trouve un way qui est 
"fait pour" la voiture ? une relation d'une relation pourrait l'inclure, 
mais ce way là ne me semble plus être une voie verte
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Recherche ressources pour présentation

[deuzeffe]

On 29/06/2018 23:00, Antoine Riche wrote:

La slide était peut-être une copie d'écran de 
https://mvexel.github.io/thenandnow/


Possible. J'ai vu passer ça sur mastodon, ça m'a impressionnée mais pas 
eu le réflexe de favoriser :) Pour le moment, ThenAndNow ne donne rien :/


J'avais préparé il y a quelques années un support de présentation, que 
tu peux trouver sur https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/naomap/diary. Ça 
mérite probablement d'être mis à jour.


C'est copieux, en tout cas ! Je tente de rapatrier ça et j'explore.

Merci à toi !
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Jun 2018, at 11:39, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> 
> I would love it if OSM Carto
> could be split into a "bread and butter" style that is easy to work
> with, easy on the eye and easy to render, and a "cartography
> navel-gazing" add-on where we show off how we can render different track
> patterns depending on the pebble size. We could then offer both on
> openstreetmap.org (where the bread-and-butter style would be the default).



sounds great, I’m sure a lot of people would love this. I would put the 
sophisticated style as default on osm.org though, it is mainly for the mappers, 
people that only use the data mostly see it through third party like mapbox, 
maps.me etc. 
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Re: [Talk-br] Fundar Associação OpenStreetMap Brasil

[Peter Krauss]

Oi gente, reforçando, é só mais esse final de semana,
https://bit.ly/votaEstatutoVers0_3_3
Por favor divulgar o link no Telegram-comunidade e cia.

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 12:06 PM santamariense  wrote:

> Lembrete... A versão atual do estatuto para a criação da associação
> OSM BR está para a apreciação da comunidade.
> https://bit.ly/votaEstatutoVers0_3_3 . Certamente os já cadastrados
> receberam por e-mail. Participem.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Recherche ressources pour présentation

[Antoine Riche]

Bonsoir,

La slide était peut-être une copie d'écran de 
https://mvexel.github.io/thenandnow/


J'avais préparé il y a quelques années un support de présentation, que 
tu peux trouver sur https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/naomap/diary. Ça 
mérite probablement d'être mis à jour.


Antoine.


Le 29/06/2018 à 22:19, deuzeffe a écrit :

Bonsoir,

Il y a une forte probabilité pour que je présente osm à ma 
collectivité (commune et peut-être EPCI, visons haut).


Je cherche donc quelques ressources "graphiques" pour la présentation 
générale d'osm, et en particulier une diapo. que Christian (?) a 
présenté je ne sais plus quand, je ne sais plus où et montrant l'état 
de la carte osm de la France il y a 10 ans et maintenant.


S'il existe d'autres ressources utiles à mon projet, je suis preneuse 
aussi.


Merci d'avance !




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Re: [OSM-talk] About OSM social implications and what can/should be displayed on the map (or not)

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 29.06.2018 o 17:27, Carlos Cámara pisze:

> This is to say that openstreetmap-carto is OSM's business card, which
> should serve as an entry point to the project to people from many
> conditions and hence, we have a responsibility in deciding what do we
> display and how we do it

Of course. There's a nice poem of polish Noblist about the matter:

"Even when you take to the woods,
you`re taking political steps
on political grounds."

https://poezja.org/wz/Szymborska_Wis%C5%82awa/1980/[in_english]_Children_of_Our_Age

But it works both ways - not taking part or not doing something is also
one's responsibility:

"Whatever you say reverberates,
whatever you don`t say speaks for itself.
So either way you`re talking politics."

> (I'm sure we are all more or less aware of that and there are great
> efforts and success in making it a great default renderer -I honestly
> love how fast it has improved in recent time).

Nice to hear that, thanks! Not as fast as I'd like and is possible, but
it needs more active people in my opinion - especially coders at the moment.

> In order to overcome those matters (and if I am not wrong), so far the
> position on this regards is to render everything on
> openstreetmap-carto provided the following conditions: A) there is a
> significant number of uses (don't know how much is "significant"), B)
> someone creates an issue requesting for it, C) someone designs an icon
> or a representation for it, D) someone implements it by creating a
> Pull request that is merged into openstreetmap-carto project.

This is more or less accurate, however B is usually the first step and
C+D is sometimes where it starts. A is usually taken into account
together with documentation, how the tag is used, if there are some
competing schemes and how many people have used that - all of which can
be a source of debate. Usually tags starting with 2000-5000 uses are
pretty much significant, if no other factors are undermining that.

>  Or in other words, it is like European white heterosexual males were
> doing a kind of digital colonization of the world by imposing their
> rules simply because other groups are not participating in the
> decision-making process and hence their needs/opinions have not been
> taken into account.

I would be happy to see more people engaged in decision making in OSM
Carto, unfortunately it seems that only few people want to participate
to some degree. And that is also political will to not engage or not
help, which is powerful tool shaping the reality - don't forget about
it. Even if we try to take it into account, how could we be sure that we
represent them right?

We were asking about writing systems and the response was minimal. We
have a Code of Conduct. We made project overview, tutorials and easier
to use installation system. Diversity is one of our goals. If you know
what more is needed to attract them, please let us know.

-- 
"My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]



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[OSM-talk-fr] Recherche ressources pour présentation

[deuzeffe]

Bonsoir,

Il y a une forte probabilité pour que je présente osm à ma collectivité 
(commune et peut-être EPCI, visons haut).


Je cherche donc quelques ressources "graphiques" pour la présentation 
générale d'osm, et en particulier une diapo. que Christian (?) a 
présenté je ne sais plus quand, je ne sais plus où et montrant l'état de 
la carte osm de la France il y a 10 ans et maintenant.


S'il existe d'autres ressources utiles à mon projet, je suis preneuse aussi.

Merci d'avance !
--
deuzeffe

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Re: [Talk-it-trentino] Sviluppo app navigatore per osm

[Dario Zontini]

Io sono un po' troppo lontano per partecipare, ma vi seguirò con interesse

Il ven 29 giu 2018, 16:07 Alessandro Vitali  ha
scritto:

> Ciao ragazzi,
>
> il 13 giugno io, Denis e Federico (un collega di Cavalese, che legge in
> copia) abbiamo fatto il primo incontro. Ci siamo confrontati e discusso
> sui seguenti argomenti:
>
> - strumenti e modalità di aggiornamento di osm (osmhydrant, josm,
> vespucci, osmand, ecc...)
> - cosa sono gli stili di josm per estrapolare ed ottenere carte cartacee
> utili per i mezzi di emergenza
> - cosa sono le query per estrapolare dati con overpass turbo
>
> Abbiamo concluso (correggimi Denis se sbaglio) che in questo gruppo ci
> sono diverse persone che hanno conoscenze approfondite sia sugli stili che
> sulle query, conoscenze che a noi mancano...
>
> Fare gruppo sarebbe sicuramente utile per raggiungere alcuni obbiettivi,
> quali:
> - completare più velocemente la mappatura delle vie e civici della bassa
> valsugana
> - creare uno stile/query con quale poter estrapolare i dati necessari per
> creare mappe cartacee dei vari paesi/frazioni mappati. Le mappe verrebbero
> poi stampate e messe in dotazione delle varie ambulanze di trentino
> emergenza... e, perchè no, anche degli altri servizi di emergenza di zona.
> - capire come stimolare l'implementazione dei dati OSM sui futuri Tablet
> di cui verranno dotate le ambulanze di Trentino Emergenza
>
>
> Per questo io e Cristian siamo qui a proporvi un paio di date di luglio
> per un possibile secondo incontro:
> *- mercoledì 4 dalle 16.30 alle 20.00*
> *- giovedì 5 dalle 16.30 alle 20.00 *
>
> *Ecco il Doodle per decidere la data: 
> **https://doodle.com/poll/bwdsieq6sgwrbdu7
> *
> *Indicate se avete un orario preferito...*
>
> Grazie ancora!!
> Aspettiamo vostre disponibilità!!
>
> Ale Vit
>
>
> Il giorno 25 maggio 2018 17:38, Alessandro Vitali 
> ha scritto:
>
>> Grazie per le risposte.
>>
>> Faccio una serie di premesse vista dal mio luogo di lavoro:
>> - nelle periferie del Trentino le informazioni per raggiungere il target
>> sono ancora molto "paesane"... "è la casa dopo la stalla di Tizio che è il
>> fratello di Caio", oppure "è la stalla di Caio che si trova sulla via del
>> Menador dopo la lunga siepe, prima della caso dello zio di Trentin". Con la
>> forte crescita che il trentino ha avuto negli ultimi 10 anni ci sono molte
>> zone edificate non mappate e, tenuto conto che il sistema 118 negli ultimi
>> 5 anni ha assunto circa 90 autisti (buona parte di fuori provincia) ed ha
>> avviato da poco un nuovo concorso per altre assunzioni, quelle indicazioni
>> che vengono date dalla popolazione per raggiungere i target ora risultano
>> poco utili. Noi neo assunti non siamo cresciuti in questa società e non
>> possiamo conoscere i legami di parentela tra i vari cittadini... anche per
>> questo c'è la necessità di avere una base cartografica chiara, condivisa,
>> aggiornata e facilmente consultabile. Questo ora non c'è!
>> - la centrale operativa 118 ha la possibilità di consultare le mappe
>> google, in raster OSM e altre. Non ti so però dare dati precisi in merito.
>> - da ignorante, io non credo che OSM possa sostituire una cartografia
>> gestita e certificata da un ministero ma, se usato con intelligenza, può
>> essere di grande aiuto. Questo perchè può essere aggiornato con estrema
>> facilità dagli utenti che lavorano direttamente sul campo rendendo più
>> identificabili quelle aree che, per usanza popolare, vengono chiamate con
>> nomi tipici. Da OSM poi si potrebbero produrre mappe cartacee aggiornate
>> (strumento basilare per la nostra attività) dato che, data la particolarità
>> del territorio, quelle disponibili sono più turistiche che stradali.
>> La presenza poi di 1000 piccoli comuni (che oltretutto negli ultimi anni
>> hanno rivoluzionato i nomi delle vie ed i civici) e 1
>> frazioni/masi/località non rende la nostra vita lavorativa facile.
>> - attualmente mi sto arrangiando mappando su carta i civici dei paesi
>> della bassa Valsugana, riportandoli poi con josm su osm ed utilizzando
>> osmAnd+ per la consultazione sul lavoro. Come detto mi arrangio ma non è un
>> lavoro troppo preciso e supportato da strumenti comodi... non riesco a fare
>> un'aggiornamento diretto attraverso un app stabile e veloce. Ho provato con
>> osmAnd e Vespucci ma non sono ancora soddisfatto.
>>
>>
>>
>> L'argomento è ampio, che comprende più materie ed io sono nuovo della
>> regione, ed ignorante quindi non posso non cogliere l'invito di
>> Cristian per un incontro.
>> Se si potesse organizzare qualche ora di chiacchiere con un gruppetto di
>> voi esperti sarebbe un ottimo punto di inizio per me per:
>> - conoscervi
>> - standardizzare un sistema di mappatura veloce, preciso e comodo e
>> confrontare le varie app in uso
>> - capire da dove e come cominciare nel rapportarsi con i singoli comuni
>> per fare caricamenti massivi di dati (che non so fare)
>> - discutere sulla 

Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Mateusz Konieczny]

29. Jun 2018 13:18 by a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk 
:


> On 29 June 2018 at 11:38, Max <> abonneme...@revolwear.com 
> > > wrote:
>
>> "Add the missing names to OSM in your language."
>>
>> That is inflating the OSM database with something that Wikidata has solved
>> already in a much better way. Why would someone from wikimedia recommend to
>> create a less mentainable version of their database?
>
> Because the OSM community refuses to allow the import of data from Wikidata.



Because WIkidata data is license-incompatible with OSM.
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Re: [OSM-talk] About OSM social implications and what can/should be displayed on the map (or not)

[Mateusz Konieczny]

29. Jun 2018 17:27 by carlos.cam...@gmail.com :


> OSM does not take "any ethical stance and display the world as it is."
> It is for that reason that I want to raise that particular topic to OSM 
> community: 
> Is that true?




yes


 

>  and if so, should it be that way? 
>




yes




> My reasons for such statement are the following ones:
>
> First: Any map is also a political act in terms that the mappers decide which 
> information is displayed and which one is not,




Are you aware about difference between OSM database and maps made from OSM 
database?




 

> openstreetmap-carto




I am not convinced that this mailing list is a good place to discuss it, I 
think it belongs

in openstreetmap-carto bug tracker discussion.
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Re: [OSM-talk] About OSM social implications and what can/should be displayed on the map (or not)

[Jan Martinec]

Hello,

TL;DR: I disagree with the proposal, OSM would fall apart without OTGR.

As for "we should change the world by creating the map", this is THE
antithesis to OpenStreetMap. As soon we depart from the On-The-Ground
Rule, and start mapping "what _I_think_ ought (not) exist", we become
OpenGeoFiction2 and perish in edit wars: opinion is unfalsifiable and
unverifiable, as opposed to physical features.

"Do not be angry at the mirror if you dislike what you see there", so to
speak. Fix the world and _then_ edit its map to reflect the new status,
sure; but breaking the mirror is the opposite of fixing, even if you
start doing it in tiny pieces and For the Greater Good. (I am aware that
the metaphor leaks - what gets mapped and what gets displayed can never
be a perfect mirror, bias will always be there - but the proposal seems
to suggest that we dispose of OTGR altogether.) As you note, there is no
clear consensus even on such things as boundaries.

Speaking of HOTOSM, that's a great counterexample, actually: many things
mapped in HOT are unlikable: slums, refugee camps, disaster outcomes.
Should we undisplay and suppress those, too, to make the map _seem_ nicer?

See also this official OSMF statement on disputed features; I think it's
applicable to most disputed elements:
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf
(If I may summarize: existence in map is not endorsement, physical
reality trumps wishes.)

Regards,
Jan "Piskvor" Martinec


Dne 06/29/18 v 17:50 James napsal(a):
> Not showing things on map to me is a form of censorship. I.E if a study
> finds that the sight of trees triggers suicide by hanging do we start
> removing all tree icons?
>
> This sets a precedent to what can and can't be displayed on map. There
> are some disputed boarders that are displayed differently in Google maps
> depending on where you view it
> from( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9ZMub2UrKU ) and the reasons are
> mostly political. The map should show "what is there" is my philosophy
>
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 11:30 AM Carlos Cámara,  > wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> After participating in this openstreetmap-carto issue
> 
> discussing to create an icon for casinos in which I stated that they
> should not be highlighted with an icon due to their grave
> consequences derived from gambling addiction (there are plenty of
> scientific literature about it), I was pointed out that OSM does not
> take "any ethical stance and display the world as it is."
>
> It is for that reason that I want to raise that particular topic to
> OSM community:
> Is that true? and if so, should it be that way?
>
> Long story short: although I am aware that it is a sensible and
> polemic issue, I think that such position does not make much sense
> in a project like OSM as I believe that OSM has a great social
> responsibility and opportunity as well. It is for that reason that
> we could be much more aware and sensitive to those matters and act
> accordingly.
>
> My reasons for such statement are the following ones:
>
> First: Any map is also a political act in terms that the mappers
> decide which information is displayed and which one is not, but also
> in the way we represent countries in terms of size and position
> (spoiler alert: countries are not like we represent them on the
> maps, and definitely are far different from the common web-mercator
> projection -more about that on this Wikipedia article
>  or, if even inthis
> chapter of West Wing TV series
> ). This is to say that
> it is impossible to represent reality as it is due to the fact that
> it is impossible to project the Earth onto a flat surface without
> errors/distortions.  OSM is no exception to that and, as such, it
> has a cultural and techno-political perspective/bias even if we are
> not aware of that. We should not forget about that (and leads us to
> the following point).
>
> Second: The very foundations of OSM as a project are
> techno-political in terms that it was created to overcome the lack
> of certain geographical information about certain areas or topics.
> This is even more obvious in HOSM or the not-at-all-accidental use
> of open licenses from its very beginning.
>
> Third: by creating the map the way we love, we are also creating the
> world as we would love to live in. Since most of OSM contributors
> decide to share their free time with other mappers around the world
> in making the best possible map, we could infer (yes, I acknowledge
> certain bias here which would require much more research) that we
> would love to live in a world where sharing was considered as a
> 

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Mappen van spoorweginfrastructuur

[Wouter Hamelinck]

> > Op zich is er geen reden om die weg te splitsen: die nodes met
> barrier=block zouden moeten volstaan voor routing software. En naar mijn
> mening wordt die weg geen 'path' door die blokken.
>
> "In mijnen tijd" werd in geen enkele router rekening gehouden met barriers
> op wegen, vandaar dat ik de neiging heb altijd de weg te splitsen, en ook
> de tags op de barrier vergeet (wat nu dus inderdaad problematisch is).
>
> Maar als er aan beide kanten van de overweg blokken staan, wordt het deel
> ertussen imo de facto wel een path, dus ik zou het hier toch nog steeds
> splitsen.
>

Dit is zo een redenering die ik echt niet volg. Soms zie ik het nog
extremer doorgetrokken en wordt een weg als path of footway aangegeven
omwille van een bord C1 (rond met rode rand) dat de toegang beperkt. Voor
mij blijft een weg een weg, meestal highway=unclassified. Inderdaad de
toegang verandert, maar daar dient de access-tag voor en niet de
highway-tag naar mijn mening.

wouter

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Mappen van spoorweginfrastructuur

[Marc Gemis]

Volgens Richard Fairhurst worden blockades voorgesteld door nodes nu
wel ondersteund door OSRM and Graphhopper, zie commentaar van
"Richard" op mijn antwoord bij
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/64292/do-you-add-a-gate-by-node-on-a-way-or-by-adding-a-point-by-itself

De wereld staat dus niet stil :-)

m.

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:17 PM Ruben  wrote:
>
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 15:26:18 + (UTC), Stijn Rombauts 
>  wrote:
> > >> * de overweg is met grote plastic blokken afgesloten voor autoverkeer, 
> > >> >> al staan er geen overeenkomstige borden; fietsers en voetgangers 
> > >> kunnen
> > >> er nog wel langs, en doen dat ook. Geluidssignaal en knipperlichten zijn
> > >> ook actief ten gepasten tijde. Maar hoe mappen we dat?
> > >
> > >barrier=block op de baan ter hoogte van de blokken.
> > >De weg splitsen ter hoogte van de blokken, en op het stuk ertussen 
> > >highway=path foot=yes bicycle=yes moped=yes
> >
> > Dit is nagenoeg volledig fout...
> > De meeste 'barriers' hebben impliciet access=no [1]. Dus je moet expliciet 
> > aangeven wie er toch mag passeren: foot=yes, enz...
> > Op zich is er geen reden om die weg te splitsen: die nodes met 
> > barrier=block zouden moeten volstaan voor routing software. En naar mijn 
> > mening wordt die weg geen 'path' door die blokken.
>
> "In mijnen tijd" werd in geen enkele router rekening gehouden met barriers op 
> wegen, vandaar dat ik de neiging heb altijd de weg te splitsen, en ook de 
> tags op de barrier vergeet (wat nu dus inderdaad problematisch is).
>
> Maar als er aan beide kanten van de overweg blokken staan, wordt het deel 
> ertussen imo de facto wel een path, dus ik zou het hier toch nog steeds 
> splitsen.
>
> > Als je er toch een 'path' van wil maken: een highway=path heeft als default 
> > motor_vehicle=no [2]. Foot=yes en bicycle=yes toevoegen is compleet 
> > overbodig; moped=yes toevoegen is wel nodig.
>
> Goed. Ik kende die defaults niet echt.
>
> > Als je highway=residential behoudt, val je terug op de algemene regel dat 
> > highway=* impliceert access=yes. De elegantste manier om voetgangers, 
> > fietsers, brommertjes en waarschijnlijk ook ruiters toe te laten, is 
> > motor_vehicle=no, moped=yes.
> >
> > [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Barriers
> > [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dpath
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Mappen van spoorweginfrastructuur

[Ruben]

On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 15:26:18 + (UTC), Stijn Rombauts 
 wrote:
> >> * de overweg is met grote plastic blokken afgesloten voor autoverkeer, >> 
> >> al staan er geen overeenkomstige borden; fietsers en voetgangers kunnen 
> >> er nog wel langs, en doen dat ook. Geluidssignaal en knipperlichten zijn 
> >> ook actief ten gepasten tijde. Maar hoe mappen we dat?  
> >
> >barrier=block op de baan ter hoogte van de blokken.
> >De weg splitsen ter hoogte van de blokken, en op het stuk ertussen 
> >highway=path foot=yes bicycle=yes moped=yes  
> 
> Dit is nagenoeg volledig fout...
> De meeste 'barriers' hebben impliciet access=no [1]. Dus je moet expliciet 
> aangeven wie er toch mag passeren: foot=yes, enz...
> Op zich is er geen reden om die weg te splitsen: die nodes met barrier=block 
> zouden moeten volstaan voor routing software. En naar mijn mening wordt die 
> weg geen 'path' door die blokken.

"In mijnen tijd" werd in geen enkele router rekening gehouden met barriers op 
wegen, vandaar dat ik de neiging heb altijd de weg te splitsen, en ook de tags 
op de barrier vergeet (wat nu dus inderdaad problematisch is).

Maar als er aan beide kanten van de overweg blokken staan, wordt het deel 
ertussen imo de facto wel een path, dus ik zou het hier toch nog steeds 
splitsen.

> Als je er toch een 'path' van wil maken: een highway=path heeft als default 
> motor_vehicle=no [2]. Foot=yes en bicycle=yes toevoegen is compleet 
> overbodig; moped=yes toevoegen is wel nodig.

Goed. Ik kende die defaults niet echt.

> Als je highway=residential behoudt, val je terug op de algemene regel dat 
> highway=* impliceert access=yes. De elegantste manier om voetgangers, 
> fietsers, brommertjes en waarschijnlijk ook ruiters toe te laten, is 
> motor_vehicle=no, moped=yes.
> 
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Barriers
> [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dpath

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Re: [OSM-talk] About OSM social implications and what can/should be displayed on the map (or not)

[Richard Fairhurst]

Carlos Cámara wrote:
> Willing to read your points of view on that matter.

There is a whole lot I could say on this (writing "Eurocentric" in a
discussion about casinos seems really weird, and I'm not sure Native
Americans would thank you for it) but ultimately it's a little academic at
the moment.

At present we are prisoners of the technology we use. That is raster tiles
and they simply don't scale to offering multiple views of the world. So
unless you believe there is one true map (there isn't) then this issue is
always going to come up.

Moving to vector tiles will bring OSM's true potential front and centre: a
million different views of the one dataset.[1] The barrier for creating your
own map view of the world moves from a seriously difficult toolchain and an
arcane styling language, to a simple "bring your own style" with a friendly
WYSIWYG editor[2]. It's not even infeasible that, one day, individual OSM
users could save their own stylesheets somewhere on osm.org, fork and share
them with others. The possibilities are endless, and endlessly delightful.

That is where to focus our energies - not on mithering around the dying
technology of raster tiles.

Richard

[1] assuming a comprehensive selection of tags is encoded into the tiles at
large scale, but that's entirely plausible
[2] https://github.com/maputnik/editor



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Cartographier les voies vertes

[Antoine Riche]

Le 29/06/2018 à 10:20, jabali a écrit :

En tant qu'infrastructure, une voie verte ne peut pas être un highway track
ou service ( sauf exeptions très ponctuelles)

voir def track et service.
Selon le cahier des charges d'accord, mais dans la réalité pas toujours. 
Ces exceptions même ponctuelles sont justement ce qui fait la richesse 
d'OSM : documenter finement la réalité du terrain et non avoir des 
couches de données théoriques.


Selon le wiki highway=track définit les "Roads for mostly /agricultural 
or forestry uses".
/Le mot important est mostly (principalement, généralement) : c'est vrai 
la plupart du temps mais ce n'est pas une règle absolue.


La valeur de la clef highway est censée refléter /"l'importance et la 
structure physique de la route/". Du coup utiliser /path /pour des voies 
allant d'un sentier en terre de 20 cm à une voie large de 3 m avec un 
bel enrobé ne répond pas à ce critère. Restreindre cette valeur en 
fonction des critères d'accès, déjà définis par les tags foot et 
bicycle, est redondant et donc inutilement restrictif.


Donc je renouvelle la question initiale : objections pour ouvrir la 
valeur du tag /highway /pour les voies vertes ? Dans la majorité des cas 
on aura du /path/, du /cycleway/, du /track/, parfois du /service /et 
c'est tout.


Antoine.



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Re: [OSM-talk] About OSM social implications and what can/should be displayed on the map (or not)

[James]

Not showing things on map to me is a form of censorship. I.E if a study
finds that the sight of trees triggers suicide by hanging do we start
removing all tree icons?

This sets a precedent to what can and can't be displayed on map. There are
some disputed boarders that are displayed differently in Google maps
depending on where you view it from(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9ZMub2UrKU ) and the reasons are mostly
political. The map should show "what is there" is my philosophy

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 11:30 AM Carlos Cámara, 
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> After participating in this openstreetmap-carto issue
> 
> discussing to create an icon for casinos in which I stated that they should
> not be highlighted with an icon due to their grave consequences derived
> from gambling addiction (there are plenty of scientific literature about
> it), I was pointed out that OSM does not take "any ethical stance and
> display the world as it is."
>
> It is for that reason that I want to raise that particular topic to OSM
> community:
> Is that true? and if so, should it be that way?
>
> Long story short: although I am aware that it is a sensible and polemic
> issue, I think that such position does not make much sense in a project
> like OSM as I believe that OSM has a great social responsibility and
> opportunity as well. It is for that reason that we could be much more aware
> and sensitive to those matters and act accordingly.
>
> My reasons for such statement are the following ones:
>
> First: Any map is also a political act in terms that the mappers decide
> which information is displayed and which one is not, but also in the way we
> represent countries in terms of size and position (spoiler alert: countries
> are not like we represent them on the maps, and definitely are far
> different from the common web-mercator projection -more about that on this
> Wikipedia article  or, if
> even in this chapter of West Wing TV series
> ). This is to say that it is
> impossible to represent reality as it is due to the fact that it is
> impossible to project the Earth onto a flat surface without
> errors/distortions.  OSM is no exception to that and, as such, it has a
> cultural and techno-political perspective/bias even if we are not aware of
> that. We should not forget about that (and leads us to the following point).
>
> Second: The very foundations of OSM as a project are techno-political in
> terms that it was created to overcome the lack of certain geographical
> information about certain areas or topics. This is even more obvious in
> HOSM or the not-at-all-accidental use of open licenses from its very
> beginning.
>
> Third: by creating the map the way we love, we are also creating the world
> as we would love to live in. Since most of OSM contributors decide to share
> their free time with other mappers around the world in making the best
> possible map, we could infer (yes, I acknowledge certain bias here which
> would require much more research) that we would love to live in a world
> where sharing was considered as a positive value and change-driver for a
> better world which also promoted other positive values such as openness to
> information, collaboration, inclusiveness, communication and discussion
> (which, surprise, are OSM's pillars). Following that reasoning, I believe
> that OSM should set the grounds for a world aligned with their values by
> acting accordingly. It is doing so anyway, so why not to take some time to
> reflect on that instead of avoiding discussion based on the illusion that
> we are not taking part in this?
>
> Fourth: OSM has a complexity that makes it difficult for newcomers to
> wholly understand it (let alone to get involved). Part of these
> difficulties lie in the fact that OSM is, in fact, a complex ecosystem
> formed by a spatial database, a community, a map (or better, a series of
> maps), 3rd party apps... that cannot be appreciated at first sight, since
> many newcomers' first contact with OSM is the openstreetmap.org which, in
> fact, is even more complex than that as it is in turn based in several
> components such as nominatim, javascript libraries or renders such as
> carto, transport, HOSM...  What most of these people see there (and what
> they are likely looking for) is a map "similar to Google maps" yet
> different. This is to say that openstreetmap-carto is OSM's business card,
> which should serve as an entry point to the project to people from many
> conditions and hence, we have a responsibility in deciding what do we
> display and how we do it (I'm sure we are all more or less aware of that
> and there are great efforts and success in making it a great default
> renderer -I honestly love how fast it has improved in recent time).
>
> Unfortunately, even if someone completely agreed with all those points, I
> 

Re: [talk-au] Pathogen Control Stations

[Jonathon Rossi]

Thanks Warin,

I read your suggestion for "man_made=boot_cleansing", I'd opt for
"man_made=shoe_cleansing" since I don't wear boots but running shoes as a
runner not a hiker. The QPWS web site mentions "footwear", I think shoe
would be the most inclusive term.

P.S. Sorry I didn't reply on the tagging list, don't know of any way to
reply to that thread without having received those emails.

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 9:06 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't know - nothing in OSM I can see.
>
> I'll ask on the tagging list and see what they say.
>
> Note .. it may well not render/show up on the maps for sometime even
> once there is a tag and there are a few 100 mapped.
>
>
> On 28/06/18 21:49, Jonathon Rossi wrote:
> > Throughout the Gold Coast Hinterland (including Lamington and
> > Springbrook National Parks) there are pathogen control stations. These
> > are designed to be used by humans to reduce soil and other
> > contaminates being carried on shoes between sections of the national
> > parks.
> >
> > Many have big brushes (mounted facing up) to clean soil out of your
> > shoes and a disinfectant applier for the base of your shoe, example
> > photo:
> >
> https://www.npsr.qld.gov.au/parks/lamington/images/pathogen-control-station.jpg
> >
> > I mapped one last week in Springbrook NP, however couldn't find any
> > relevant tags to apply to the node. Has anyone mapped them or seen
> > them mapped in OSM before? Is there anything similar that could be a
> > relevant tag?
> >
> >
>
>
> ___
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> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] About OSM social implications and what can/should be displayed on the map (or not)

[Michał Brzozowski]

Do keep in mind that none of the maintainers opposed (as far as I can see).
The comments are essentially from random people who may or may not be
closely involved in the project.

Michał

pt., 29 cze 2018, 17:30 użytkownik Carlos Cámara 
napisał:

> Dear all,
>
> After participating in this openstreetmap-carto issue
> 
> discussing to create an icon for casinos in which I stated that they should
> not be highlighted with an icon due to their grave consequences derived
> from gambling addiction (there are plenty of scientific literature about
> it), I was pointed out that OSM does not take "any ethical stance and
> display the world as it is."
>
> It is for that reason that I want to raise that particular topic to OSM
> community:
> Is that true? and if so, should it be that way?
>
> Long story short: although I am aware that it is a sensible and polemic
> issue, I think that such position does not make much sense in a project
> like OSM as I believe that OSM has a great social responsibility and
> opportunity as well. It is for that reason that we could be much more aware
> and sensitive to those matters and act accordingly.
>
> My reasons for such statement are the following ones:
>
> First: Any map is also a political act in terms that the mappers decide
> which information is displayed and which one is not, but also in the way we
> represent countries in terms of size and position (spoiler alert: countries
> are not like we represent them on the maps, and definitely are far
> different from the common web-mercator projection -more about that on this
> Wikipedia article  or, if
> even in this chapter of West Wing TV series
> ). This is to say that it is
> impossible to represent reality as it is due to the fact that it is
> impossible to project the Earth onto a flat surface without
> errors/distortions.  OSM is no exception to that and, as such, it has a
> cultural and techno-political perspective/bias even if we are not aware of
> that. We should not forget about that (and leads us to the following point).
>
> Second: The very foundations of OSM as a project are techno-political in
> terms that it was created to overcome the lack of certain geographical
> information about certain areas or topics. This is even more obvious in
> HOSM or the not-at-all-accidental use of open licenses from its very
> beginning.
>
> Third: by creating the map the way we love, we are also creating the world
> as we would love to live in. Since most of OSM contributors decide to share
> their free time with other mappers around the world in making the best
> possible map, we could infer (yes, I acknowledge certain bias here which
> would require much more research) that we would love to live in a world
> where sharing was considered as a positive value and change-driver for a
> better world which also promoted other positive values such as openness to
> information, collaboration, inclusiveness, communication and discussion
> (which, surprise, are OSM's pillars). Following that reasoning, I believe
> that OSM should set the grounds for a world aligned with their values by
> acting accordingly. It is doing so anyway, so why not to take some time to
> reflect on that instead of avoiding discussion based on the illusion that
> we are not taking part in this?
>
> Fourth: OSM has a complexity that makes it difficult for newcomers to
> wholly understand it (let alone to get involved). Part of these
> difficulties lie in the fact that OSM is, in fact, a complex ecosystem
> formed by a spatial database, a community, a map (or better, a series of
> maps), 3rd party apps... that cannot be appreciated at first sight, since
> many newcomers' first contact with OSM is the openstreetmap.org which, in
> fact, is even more complex than that as it is in turn based in several
> components such as nominatim, javascript libraries or renders such as
> carto, transport, HOSM...  What most of these people see there (and what
> they are likely looking for) is a map "similar to Google maps" yet
> different. This is to say that openstreetmap-carto is OSM's business card,
> which should serve as an entry point to the project to people from many
> conditions and hence, we have a responsibility in deciding what do we
> display and how we do it (I'm sure we are all more or less aware of that
> and there are great efforts and success in making it a great default
> renderer -I honestly love how fast it has improved in recent time).
>
> Unfortunately, even if someone completely agreed with all those points, I
> have to acknowledge that there is not a single and non-controversial
> position that can be taken from them. Even if we agreed with the fact that
> we have a social responsibility, several questions arise: Which are those
> polemic features that we are talking about? and, what should we do with
> 

[OSM-talk] About OSM social implications and what can/should be displayed on the map (or not)

[Carlos Cámara]

Dear all,

After participating in this openstreetmap-carto issue

discussing to create an icon for casinos in which I stated that they should
not be highlighted with an icon due to their grave consequences derived
from gambling addiction (there are plenty of scientific literature about
it), I was pointed out that OSM does not take "any ethical stance and
display the world as it is."

It is for that reason that I want to raise that particular topic to OSM
community:
Is that true? and if so, should it be that way?

Long story short: although I am aware that it is a sensible and polemic
issue, I think that such position does not make much sense in a project
like OSM as I believe that OSM has a great social responsibility and
opportunity as well. It is for that reason that we could be much more aware
and sensitive to those matters and act accordingly.

My reasons for such statement are the following ones:

First: Any map is also a political act in terms that the mappers decide
which information is displayed and which one is not, but also in the way we
represent countries in terms of size and position (spoiler alert: countries
are not like we represent them on the maps, and definitely are far
different from the common web-mercator projection -more about that on this
Wikipedia article  or, if
even in this chapter of West Wing TV series
). This is to say that it is
impossible to represent reality as it is due to the fact that it is
impossible to project the Earth onto a flat surface without
errors/distortions.  OSM is no exception to that and, as such, it has a
cultural and techno-political perspective/bias even if we are not aware of
that. We should not forget about that (and leads us to the following point).

Second: The very foundations of OSM as a project are techno-political in
terms that it was created to overcome the lack of certain geographical
information about certain areas or topics. This is even more obvious in
HOSM or the not-at-all-accidental use of open licenses from its very
beginning.

Third: by creating the map the way we love, we are also creating the world
as we would love to live in. Since most of OSM contributors decide to share
their free time with other mappers around the world in making the best
possible map, we could infer (yes, I acknowledge certain bias here which
would require much more research) that we would love to live in a world
where sharing was considered as a positive value and change-driver for a
better world which also promoted other positive values such as openness to
information, collaboration, inclusiveness, communication and discussion
(which, surprise, are OSM's pillars). Following that reasoning, I believe
that OSM should set the grounds for a world aligned with their values by
acting accordingly. It is doing so anyway, so why not to take some time to
reflect on that instead of avoiding discussion based on the illusion that
we are not taking part in this?

Fourth: OSM has a complexity that makes it difficult for newcomers to
wholly understand it (let alone to get involved). Part of these
difficulties lie in the fact that OSM is, in fact, a complex ecosystem
formed by a spatial database, a community, a map (or better, a series of
maps), 3rd party apps... that cannot be appreciated at first sight, since
many newcomers' first contact with OSM is the openstreetmap.org which, in
fact, is even more complex than that as it is in turn based in several
components such as nominatim, javascript libraries or renders such as
carto, transport, HOSM...  What most of these people see there (and what
they are likely looking for) is a map "similar to Google maps" yet
different. This is to say that openstreetmap-carto is OSM's business card,
which should serve as an entry point to the project to people from many
conditions and hence, we have a responsibility in deciding what do we
display and how we do it (I'm sure we are all more or less aware of that
and there are great efforts and success in making it a great default
renderer -I honestly love how fast it has improved in recent time).

Unfortunately, even if someone completely agreed with all those points, I
have to acknowledge that there is not a single and non-controversial
position that can be taken from them. Even if we agreed with the fact that
we have a social responsibility, several questions arise: Which are those
polemic features that we are talking about? and, what should we do with
them?

Let's start with the latter:

IMHO there are several options for dealing with polemic features, like the
following ones:

   1. Not display them at all on openstreetmap-carto (and possibly,
   creating a specific renderer for that purpose)
   2. Display them on openstreetmap-carto, but discretely, without
   highlighting them (eg: by only displaying its name, without an icon or with
   

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 29.06.2018 o 11:06, Christoph Hormann pisze:

> I did not make any assumptions on avant-garde being a positive thing
> here.  In fact for a long time i have clearly said that i think that 
> OSM map design should become more pluralistic.  

It is now and it does not go away, so I still see no crossroad - just
more or less active.

> But historically 
> OSM-Carto has been and has meant to be avant-garde, in particular also 
> to justify being rendered on OSMF infrastructure.

It's very interesting, could you tell more about it? I'm not aware of
such comments and I'm not sure what "avant-garde" meant in this context.

I suspect it could be map richness, which is rather simple, but might be
seen as avant-garde. Also the act of collective design in itself might
be seen as ground breaking. But I wouldn't call it like that.

> You are making the wrong assumption here that code complexity and 
> cartographic sophistication always need to go together.  But they 
> don't.  There are plenty of examples of cartographic sophistication 
> being implemented without additional code complexity as well as code 
> complexity being added which was cartographically a step back.  

You're right, I used simplification. We deployed some simple code for
borders simplification for example and I was happy with that. Here I
talk only about avant-garde which currently requires workarounds.

> You are 
> also making the wrong implicit assumption that code complexity is the 
> only major factor that negatively affects developers' ability to 
> implement changes.

What are other factors then?

> about this.  And the unpaved roads rendering is not the problem here, 
> the problem is the complexity of roads rendering in general.

In my opinion there are two problems which add up - current road
complexity and surface code being Mapnik workaround too.

> Right now OSM-Carto is in the position of a quasi-monopoly in what it 
> does.  A potential competitor would need to mobilize a tile serving 
> infrastructure at least roughly on the same level as that of the OSMF 
> to seriously challenge it.  And this is quite a big hurdle.  This 
> creates a pretty stable comfort zone where OSM-Carto can rest idly even 
> if the world of digital cartography is progressing around it.

What do you define as the "serious competitor"? How do you measure it,
because there are a lot of styles using OSM data - including Wikimedia
maps style. Are they serious for you?

For me it's not the main problem, rather internal complexity which is
hard to avoid. No matter if the competitor exists or not, we're bound by
the tools and environment we're using, for example:

- https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2452 -
problem with lack of variables in YAML and/or CartoCSS parsing big lists
in SQL queries

- https://github.com/mapnik/mapnik/issues/3763 - lack of em measure in
Mapnik

- https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/issues/155 - smarter label
placement has been implemented in mainstream Mapnik after I talked with
developers, but it's still not deployed on OSMF servers

...and so on.

The competitor would have to reimplement all of it or find better
toolchain, but OSM Carto could also use them if available, so it's still
the same problem.

But for rich map I see no such ready tools. Do you know any of them?

-- 
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[OSM-talk] en.osm.town: Announcing a new Mastodon instance for OSM (en)

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

I've set up a Mastodon instance for OSM (english speaking)!

https://en.osm.town/

Mastodon is an open source, federated micro-blogging system, with more
than a million users. Basically open source twitter, spread across many
servers. This is a new instance/server focused on OpenStreetMap (there's
already fr.osm.social for francophone OSMers). Like email, this server
("instance") talks to other servers, so anyone on the "fediverse" can
follow and interact with anyone on this server & vice versa. The "local
timeline" will only show toots (= tweets) from everyone on the server,
so will be full of OSM related stuff.

Let's ditch twitter for something open, and under our control! No
adverts, no analytics, no "algorithmic" promoted tweets. 500 characters!
Let's use mapstodon instead!

I'm mirroring some twitter accounts to it. I can turn them over the
appropriate people, or continue to auto post from twitter. I'll create
more mirror accounts later.

https://en.osm.town/@openstreetmap
https://en.osm.town/@sotm

More on Mastodon:

 * https://joinmastodon.org/
 * User guide:
https://github.com/tootsuite/documentation/blob/master/Using-Mastodon/User-guide.md
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastodon_(software)

Follow me on mapstadon: https://en.osm.town/@rory

Rory

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 29.06.2018 o 12:57, James pisze:
> But they say CartoCSS is dead, what is the intended replacement(if
> it's dead it's because there's a newer better thing?)? just a data
> structure that contains data/styling?

Being "dead" means it's no longer in development, but it's still
perfectly usable. 

It could be another "translator" from CartoCSS language into Mapnik XML
configuration, but it's not ready to be replacement at the moment, see here:

https://github.com/omniscale/magnacarto/issues/7#issuecomment-399771053

If you can help with development of any of them, that would be helpful.
Otherwise we're just limited with what we have, which means CartoCSS 1.0.0.

-- 
"My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 29.06.2018 o 13:02, Christoph Hormann pisze:

> But the surface rendering from Lucas is something you could fairly well 
> re-integrate into a reworked road rendering framework afterwards - and 
> this is probably also the way i would approach it.

> How to implement something like that in an actual renderer is of course 
> not a trivial task.

That is core of the problem for me - not the approach, but deciding in
non-trivial cases, which is a lot of cases anyway...

My first choice would be to make road code cleanup - but that was just
started, then Paul stopped the work permanently:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2869

With rendering surface - there was another implementation idea and code
attempt, but that has stopped too:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3083

And the ultimate choice would be to first implement Mapnik features for
what the Lucas wants, so his code would be cleaner.

Currently we're back to the ground zero - Lucas code has been reverted
and we can check the options again. But please, let be realistic,
because I can give you much more "proper" ideas, but I don't, because
they would not be useful.

And it's not only the surface rendering issue, but it's a great example
that talking is cheap and at the end of the day it matters more what can
and will be done.

-- 
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Re: [Talk-it-trentino] Sviluppo app navigatore per osm

[Alessandro Vitali]

Ciao ragazzi,

il 13 giugno io, Denis e Federico (un collega di Cavalese, che legge in
copia) abbiamo fatto il primo incontro. Ci siamo confrontati e discusso sui
seguenti argomenti:

- strumenti e modalità di aggiornamento di osm (osmhydrant, josm, vespucci,
osmand, ecc...)
- cosa sono gli stili di josm per estrapolare ed ottenere carte cartacee
utili per i mezzi di emergenza
- cosa sono le query per estrapolare dati con overpass turbo

Abbiamo concluso (correggimi Denis se sbaglio) che in questo gruppo ci sono
diverse persone che hanno conoscenze approfondite sia sugli stili che sulle
query, conoscenze che a noi mancano...

Fare gruppo sarebbe sicuramente utile per raggiungere alcuni obbiettivi,
quali:
- completare più velocemente la mappatura delle vie e civici della bassa
valsugana
- creare uno stile/query con quale poter estrapolare i dati necessari per
creare mappe cartacee dei vari paesi/frazioni mappati. Le mappe verrebbero
poi stampate e messe in dotazione delle varie ambulanze di trentino
emergenza... e, perchè no, anche degli altri servizi di emergenza di zona.
- capire come stimolare l'implementazione dei dati OSM sui futuri Tablet di
cui verranno dotate le ambulanze di Trentino Emergenza


Per questo io e Cristian siamo qui a proporvi un paio di date di luglio per
un possibile secondo incontro:
*- mercoledì 4 dalle 16.30 alle 20.00*
*- giovedì 5 dalle 16.30 alle 20.00 *

*Ecco il Doodle per decidere la data:
**https://doodle.com/poll/bwdsieq6sgwrbdu7
*
*Indicate se avete un orario preferito...*

Grazie ancora!!
Aspettiamo vostre disponibilità!!

Ale Vit


Il giorno 25 maggio 2018 17:38, Alessandro Vitali  ha
scritto:

> Grazie per le risposte.
>
> Faccio una serie di premesse vista dal mio luogo di lavoro:
> - nelle periferie del Trentino le informazioni per raggiungere il target
> sono ancora molto "paesane"... "è la casa dopo la stalla di Tizio che è il
> fratello di Caio", oppure "è la stalla di Caio che si trova sulla via del
> Menador dopo la lunga siepe, prima della caso dello zio di Trentin". Con la
> forte crescita che il trentino ha avuto negli ultimi 10 anni ci sono molte
> zone edificate non mappate e, tenuto conto che il sistema 118 negli ultimi
> 5 anni ha assunto circa 90 autisti (buona parte di fuori provincia) ed ha
> avviato da poco un nuovo concorso per altre assunzioni, quelle indicazioni
> che vengono date dalla popolazione per raggiungere i target ora risultano
> poco utili. Noi neo assunti non siamo cresciuti in questa società e non
> possiamo conoscere i legami di parentela tra i vari cittadini... anche per
> questo c'è la necessità di avere una base cartografica chiara, condivisa,
> aggiornata e facilmente consultabile. Questo ora non c'è!
> - la centrale operativa 118 ha la possibilità di consultare le mappe
> google, in raster OSM e altre. Non ti so però dare dati precisi in merito.
> - da ignorante, io non credo che OSM possa sostituire una cartografia
> gestita e certificata da un ministero ma, se usato con intelligenza, può
> essere di grande aiuto. Questo perchè può essere aggiornato con estrema
> facilità dagli utenti che lavorano direttamente sul campo rendendo più
> identificabili quelle aree che, per usanza popolare, vengono chiamate con
> nomi tipici. Da OSM poi si potrebbero produrre mappe cartacee aggiornate
> (strumento basilare per la nostra attività) dato che, data la particolarità
> del territorio, quelle disponibili sono più turistiche che stradali.
> La presenza poi di 1000 piccoli comuni (che oltretutto negli ultimi anni
> hanno rivoluzionato i nomi delle vie ed i civici) e 1
> frazioni/masi/località non rende la nostra vita lavorativa facile.
> - attualmente mi sto arrangiando mappando su carta i civici dei paesi
> della bassa Valsugana, riportandoli poi con josm su osm ed utilizzando
> osmAnd+ per la consultazione sul lavoro. Come detto mi arrangio ma non è un
> lavoro troppo preciso e supportato da strumenti comodi... non riesco a fare
> un'aggiornamento diretto attraverso un app stabile e veloce. Ho provato con
> osmAnd e Vespucci ma non sono ancora soddisfatto.
>
>
>
> L'argomento è ampio, che comprende più materie ed io sono nuovo della
> regione, ed ignorante quindi non posso non cogliere l'invito di
> Cristian per un incontro.
> Se si potesse organizzare qualche ora di chiacchiere con un gruppetto di
> voi esperti sarebbe un ottimo punto di inizio per me per:
> - conoscervi
> - standardizzare un sistema di mappatura veloce, preciso e comodo e
> confrontare le varie app in uso
> - capire da dove e come cominciare nel rapportarsi con i singoli comuni
> per fare caricamenti massivi di dati (che non so fare)
> - discutere sulla possibilità di coinvolgere finanziamenti pubblici per
> aumentare la qualità e velocità di aggiornamento
>
>
> Io sono di Borgo... chi di voi ci starebbe ad un incontro?
>
> Ho creato questo Doodle per eventualmente definire una data...
> 

Re: [Talk-it] Orari di apertura pompe di benzina

[Andrea Musuruane]

Ciao,

2018-06-29 14:51 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
> > On 29. Jun 2018, at 10:46, Andrea Musuruane  wrote:
> >
> > Ciao,
> > la maggior parte delle pompe di benzina è aperta 24h/24, perché
> dispongono di impianti self-service.
>
>
> per essere più accurato si potrebbe usare sia opening_hours che
> service_times
>


Non conoscevo il tag service_times.

Grazie,

Andrea
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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 29.06.2018 o 14:03, Christoph Hormann pisze:
> * adding non-verifiable name translations (verifiability being 
> understood according to OSM principles, not those of Wikipedia) to OSM 

With translations "on the ground rule" is not working in most of the cases.

There are different sources, for example common name use in papers and
(for example in Poland) special naming commission (see
http://ksng.gugik.gov.pl/english/index.php ), which decisions are being
published as official law, but that is exactly Wikipedia way and I don't
see anything better here.

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Johnparis]

Ha! I was going to cite that as an example. I recently removed precisely
that absurd tag in Paris.

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 14:06 Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 29.06.2018 13:44, Simon Poole wrote (quoting Wikimedia):
> > Add the missing names to OSM in your language.
>
> I think that this simply means we need much better name QA in the
> future, and must not be afraid to remove names that don't belong there.
> Until now we've practically let every language enthusiast add their
> names to places far and wide without asking for sources; in the future
> we should ask for verifiable sources.
>
> We're ready to accept a local person's authority about local features;
> but that doesn't mean that I as a speaker of German should necessarily
> have the (un-questioned) authority to assign German names to places on
> the other side of the planet.
>
> I expect that a close look at international place names from this point
> of view will probably enable us to get rid of quiet a few "Pont Neuf=New
> Bridge" type names.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [Talk-cz] Víkendové hromadné mapování

[majka]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 at 13:49, Miroslav Suchy  wrote:

> Chtěl bych to zaměřit na turistické trasy, takže z taskmanu na mě vypadly
> Beskydy a Jeseníky. Předpokládaný termín je
> předjaří/jaro 2019. Než to začnu plánovat nějak seriozněji, tak by mě
> zajímalo kolik lidí by mělo zájem, případně kam
> jste ochotni dojet.
>

Hele, dál jsi mi to vymyslet nemohl? ;)

Přijela bych, ale znamená to přes pět hodin cesty za ideálního stavu, takže
pozdě přijet a brzy odjet, resp. asi nejlépe počítat přibrat pátek a
přespat i do soboty. Taky doufám, že by si auto nezopakovalo akci z cesty
na Elbe-Labe-Meeting, kde to vypadalo, že skončím v Benešově u Prahy.

Majka
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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Andy Mabbett]

On 29 June 2018 at 12:44, Simon Poole  wrote:

>>> they should not be calling for their users to vandalize OSM.

>> Nor are they.

>> I expected some negativity in response to this remarkable good news;
>> but this hyperbolic response is beyond acceptable.
>
> So you are denying that they are asking their users to add names to OSM so
> that their application looks better?

Everyone on this mailing list can see for themselves that that is not
what I said.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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[OSM-talk-fr] zones d'extraterritorialité / était Île de Sainte-Hélène

[Florian LAINEZ]

Salut,
Je relance un vieux sujet qui date de 2012
 : je
m'intéresse au statut des zones d'extraterritorialité.
Je me suis pris d'affection pour le bureau des poids et mesures

qui, d'après ce que j'ai compris, est bien sur le territoire français mais
bénéficie d'un statut d'extraterritorialité.
On indique ça comment ? à vrai dire je n'ai pas trop envie de les enlever
du territoire français (pour la grandeur de la France ^^) donc je penche
pour une indication avec un tag, mais lequel ?

Pour vous aider :
-> Rien dans le Wiki

-> Autres cas similaires :
-cimetière américain  sur les
plages du débarquement
-les ambassades (celle-ci 
mentionne "country=ZA")
-un bout (?) du vatican


En espérant ne pas déclencher de conflit diplomatique international :P

-- 

*Florian Lainez*
@overflorian 
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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Paul Norman]

On 2018-06-29 3:38 AM, Max wrote:
That is inflating the OSM database with something that Wikidata has 
solved already in a much better way. Why would someone from wikimedia 
recommend to create a less mentainable version of their database?




Wikidata has 412978 "thoroughfare" items. OSM has 121 million highway 
ways. These don't correspond 1:1 with each other, and it'd be 
interesting to get an exact comparison, but OSM even records more 
distinct street names than Wikidata records total streets. Companies 
like Mapbox have been trying to improve coverage with paid contractors 
filling out spreadsheets of names, but that comes with its own problems, 
and clearly hasn't made Wikidata a substitute for OSM when it comes to 
geographic names.


On a technical level, processing Wikidata data to work with map data is 
harder than processing OSM data, and lacks the standardized practices 
and documentation.


Lastly, when it comes to names in OSM as opposed to translations or 
transliterations, we should want them improved in OSM. This is, after 
all, an OSM mailing list.


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Re: [Talk-it] Orari di apertura pompe di benzina

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Jun 2018, at 10:46, Andrea Musuruane  wrote:
> 
> Ciao,
> la maggior parte delle pompe di benzina è aperta 24h/24, perché 
> dispongono di impianti self-service.


per essere più accurato si potrebbe usare sia opening_hours che service_times


Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Stefano]

Il giorno ven 29 giu 2018 alle ore 13:48 Simon Poole  ha
scritto:

> Am 29.06.2018 um 13:21 schrieb Andy Mabbett:
>
> ...
>
> Nor are they.
>
> I expected some negativity in response to this remarkable good news;
> but this hyperbolic response is beyond acceptable.
>
> So you are denying that they are asking their users to add names to OSM so
> that their application looks better?
>

No, because if the fallbacks are correctly set-up there wouldn't be any
need to add a translation to OSM (
https://github.com/kartotherian/babel/blob/master/lib/fallbacks.json )

BTW the wikidata question was already asked by me but it is out of scope
for the short time allocation given to the project
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T112948#4091555

Ciao,
Stefano
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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 29.06.2018 13:44, Simon Poole wrote (quoting Wikimedia):
> Add the missing names to OSM in your language.

I think that this simply means we need much better name QA in the
future, and must not be afraid to remove names that don't belong there.
Until now we've practically let every language enthusiast add their
names to places far and wide without asking for sources; in the future
we should ask for verifiable sources.

We're ready to accept a local person's authority about local features;
but that doesn't mean that I as a speaker of German should necessarily
have the (un-questioned) authority to assign German names to places on
the other side of the planet.

I expect that a close look at international place names from this point
of view will probably enable us to get rid of quiet a few "Pont Neuf=New
Bridge" type names.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"



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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Christoph Hormann]

On Friday 29 June 2018, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> New Wikimedia Foundation blog post:
>
>   
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2018/06/28/interactive-maps-now-in-your-la
>nguage/

In the past i have been only slightly annoyed by Wikimedia people 
failing to understand or to accept the idea behind OpenStreetMap 
(mapping the world based on information verifiable on the ground) and 
as a result of that failing the make the right choices for rendering 
maps based on OSM data in different languages - despite compentent 
advise being given from the OSM community on multiple occasions.

But now i am starting to get seriously angry by the demonstrative 
rejection of OSM values and the completely undisguised suggestion to 
abuse the OSM database for the special interests of the WMF.

So to be very clear:

* adding non-verifiable name translations (verifiability being 
understood according to OSM principles, not those of Wikipedia) to OSM 
features from any source against better knowledge or after being asked 
not to is vandalism.  So what the linked to blog post calls for is 
vandalizing OSM since Joe Matazzoni cannot claim he is unaware of this 
(plenty of past discussion here and elsewhere i could point to).

* adding information from Wikidata to OSM is not acceptable - both due 
to quality issues (Wikidata is not subject to the verifiability rules 
of OSM) and due to copyright (the vague claim of CC0 does not in any 
way ensure that the data is free of third party rights).

What really angers me about this is that this kind of abuse of OSM is 
technically completely unnecessary.  You could easily use name data 
from Wikidata in your maps and ask your followers to enter their name 
translations into Wikidata instead of OSM.  To say none of the 
explanations i would have for that behaviour is particularly flattering 
is an understatement.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-cz] Víkendové hromadné mapování

[Michal Fabík]

Ahoj,
výborně, možná by bylo dobré napsat taky na talk-de, případně přímo na
joc...@remote.org. Jochen Topf psal před několika měsíci o (ne)konání
letošního Elbe-Labe-Meeting v Německu.

-- 
Michal Fabík

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[Talk-cz] Víkendové hromadné mapování

[Miroslav Suchy]

Ahoj,
už dlouho přemýšlím o tom uspořádat víkendové hromadné mapování po vzorů 
Slováků a Němců.
Prostě na víkend pronajmout penzion, chalupu a přes den zmapovat něco na 
výletu. A večer probrat mapování u pivka nebo
vína a vyměnit si zkušenosti.

Chtěl bych to zaměřit na turistické trasy, takže z taskmanu na mě vypadly 
Beskydy a Jeseníky. Předpokládaný termín je
předjaří/jaro 2019. Než to začnu plánovat nějak seriozněji, tak by mě zajímalo 
kolik lidí by mělo zájem, případně kam
jste ochotni dojet.
Zájemce prosím o hlasování v https://doodle.com/poll/65aigxidhim8iqm2

Pokud chcete jet s manželkou/dětmi, tak tam napište "mirek + 2", když s vámi 
pojedou další dva lidi. Zatím je to
nezávazné. Jenom abych věděl po jak velkém ubytování se dívat.
Předpodkládám, že nějakou závaznou nabídku bych zde hodil po letních 
prázdninách.

Mirek

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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Simon Poole]

Am 29.06.2018 um 13:21 schrieb Andy Mabbett:
> ...
> Nor are they.
>
> I expected some negativity in response to this remarkable good news;
> but this hyperbolic response is beyond acceptable.
So you are denying that they are asking their users to add names to OSM
so that their application looks better?

When the results are unsatisfactory, there are a few things you can do:

  *

Add the missing names to OSM in your language.

It is simply a fact that most places in the world only have a name in
the relevant local language(s) and that the well known places with
multiple names and potentially special transliterations (that can't be
generated mechanically) are by far the exception

PS: the news isn't actually news it is essentially a rehash of a
previously published blog post, which however had the same issues.








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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Andy Mabbett]

On 29 June 2018 at 11:57, Simon Poole  wrote:

>> On 29.06.2018 12:18, Andy Mabbett wrote:

>>> New Wikimedia Foundation blog post:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2018/06/28/interactive-maps-now-in-your-language/

> they should not be calling for their users to vandalize OSM.

Nor are they.

I expected some negativity in response to this remarkable good news;
but this hyperbolic response is beyond acceptable.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Andy Mabbett]

On 29 June 2018 at 11:38, Max  wrote:

> "Add the missing names to OSM in your language."
>
> That is inflating the OSM database with something that Wikidata has solved
> already in a much better way. Why would someone from wikimedia recommend to
> create a less mentainable version of their database?

Because the OSM community refuses to allow the import of data from Wikidata.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 29.06.2018 o 11:39, Frederik Ramm pisze:
> Hi,
>
>without going into the finer details, I'd like to offer an outsider's
> view of OSM Carto development.

Thanks, Frederik! I lack such insights (we know our ideas inside the
team quite well), so I appreciate your comments a lot.

I would be happy to hear more voices of the OSM Carto users (not only
developers) community.

> But after a
> while this small team has started milking the toolchain for all it's
> got, and meanwhile the SQL queries are so complex that they threaten to
> nullify any effort that has gone into making the style accessible to new
> participants (or people who want to customise it).

I believe this is mainly due to performance reasons which I mentioned. I
would be happy to transform them into styling decisions (MSS files), but
most probably that would hurt the hardware resources OSMF has. So this
is what I take as a hard limit that can't be fixed.

For me this is part of a deal to stay being default style - there is
default deployment one has to consider.

> So the ease of participating or customising has more or less already
> gone down the drain; what's still good about OSM Carto is that at least
> you can easily install it as-is on your own infrastructure (I regularly
> do that for business clients), but I fear it is only a matter of time
> until this aspect of usability, too, will be abandoned, and you will
> have to run massive pre-computation jobs in order to even get your map
> off the ground...

I understand that is what you're afraid of, but I don't expect any of
that. I like the simplicity and we're cautious even with external
dependencies on pre-computed data. IIRC, there was no discussion about
adding any new pre-requisites.

> Personally speaking, the OSM Carto map has been good enough for me and
> all my use cases for years now. If anything, I found the inflation of
> icons and special cases a bit irritating. I would love it if OSM Carto
> could be split into a "bread and butter" style that is easy to work
> with, easy on the eye and easy to render, and a "cartography
> navel-gazing" add-on where we show off how we can render different track
> patterns depending on the pebble size. We could then offer both on
> openstreetmap.org (where the bread-and-butter style would be the default).

Personally lack of shop icons was the deciding factor that pulled me
into developing OSM Carto...

It's much easier to create small utility script that removes unwanted
icons or turn them into simple dots than to add new icon (as you have
noticed it might take months or even years). Maybe deployment community
needs such customizing tools? As of now we have localization tool from
German fork, but maybe "modders" could make more such tools. I would be
all for creating such ecosystem. Feel free to contact me for details,
I'm ready to help to bootstrap it.

I also like the idea of simple and extended version, but I see two
problems with that:

1. Where to draw the line and who would decide what is "standard" and
what is "extra"?

2. It's again the hardware problem that is haunting us. If OSMF admins
would be ready, I could have multiple OSM Carto versions already, for
example with different languages. Of course anybody else could support
OSMF or run their own environment, but the hardware requirements are
quite heavy, and you already know it well:

https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/64405/tile-server-hardware-requirements

What are your propositions regarding that?

-- 
"My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]



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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.12.1

[Paul Norman]

Dear all,

Today, v4.12.1 of the OpenStreetMap Carto stylesheet (the default
stylesheet on the OSM website) has been released. Once changes are deployed
on the openstreetmap.org it will take couple of days before all tiles
show the new rendering.

The sole change is dropping rendering of the surface tag because the method
used was causing unacceptable performance problems. Anyone running v4.12.0
should immediately update, particularly if they have a large database.

You can view the previous changes with v4.12.0 at 
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md#v4120---2018-06-22


As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues


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Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

[Richard Fairhurst]

Warin wrote:
> I expand these out to Saint. I think that is correct in the English
> language.

It is expressly _incorrect_ in British English and if this were a UK
discussion you would be asked to put them back to St. I can't speak for
Australian English but it wouldn't surprise me if it were the same.

https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/19609/saint-or-st-is-there-an-official-osm-policy

Richard



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Australia-f5416966.html

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[Christoph Hormann]

On Friday 29 June 2018, Paul Norman wrote:
>
> I had a go at fixing the roads code with
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/2869, but
> didn't have free time. Based on that work, I'd estimate that the
> roads code is twice the size and complexity of what it needs to be.
>
> With the surface code merged, I would be unwilling to tackle a
> cleanup like that. I like the surface code as a technical demo, but
> find it's too much complexity for the style in a part of the style
> which is already difficult to understand.

But the surface rendering from Lucas is something you could fairly well 
re-integrate into a reworked road rendering framework afterwards - and 
this is probably also the way i would approach it.

By the way roads rendering would be a really good test case for 
designing a rendering framework that would allow addressing the 
fundamental needs of rendering (in particular getting everything drawn 
in the right order and combining polygon and line features) with little 
complexity and at the same time allow flexibility in design (with 
casings, patterned fills, additional center lines etc.)

I have the impression that giving up the idea of fixed layers and 
database queries being directly attached to them in favour of a free 
modularization of how the data is queried and defining how it is drawn 
in what order independent of that could make this significantly easier 
and more intuitive.

How to implement something like that in an actual renderer is of course 
not a trivial task.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Simon Poole]

Not only that.

It confuses "translations" with "names commonly in use for the place in
your language" we only want the later in OSM. If the WMF wants the
former in WD that is their call (the rather small place (3'000 pop)I
live in has name entries in 30 languages, even though there are at most
2 names in actual use and the rest is rubbish), but they should not be
calling for their users to vandalize OSM.

Simon

Am 29.06.2018 um 12:38 schrieb Max:
> "Add the missing names to OSM in your language."
>
> That is inflating the OSM database with something that Wikidata has
> solved already in a much better way. Why would someone from wikimedia
> recommend to create a less mentainable version of their database?
>
>
>
> On 29.06.2018 12:18, Andy Mabbett wrote:
>> New Wikimedia Foundation blog post:
>>
>>    
>> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2018/06/28/interactive-maps-now-in-your-language/
>>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[James]

But they say CartoCSS is dead, what is the intended replacement(if it's
dead it's because there's a newer better thing?)? just a data structure
that contains data/styling?

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 6:49 AM Paul Norman,  wrote:

> On 2018-06-29 2:48 AM, James wrote:
> > So what is intended to replace CartoCSS? Vector tiles?
>
> CartoCSS is a styling language, vector tiles is an architecture choice.
> You can use CartoCSS with vector tiles, as the Cycle Map and Transport
> Map layers on osm.org do, or you can use CartoCSS with just conventional
> Mapnik, like the Standard and Humanitarian layers do.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[Michał Brzozowski]

Rendering (unpaved) surface is a real need. Judging from the map notes
users don't get the distinction and conflate track symbol with unpaved.
Mappers do it too.

In Poland (and maybe somewhere else) wrongly tagged tracks (what should be
residential+unpaved) are a big problem, almost intractable in scale. We
have more tracks by length than any other highway type.

The road pattern was a solution conceived AFAIR because we have tons of
other decorations in place. Tunnels, embankments, and so on.

If we can develop alternative solution to render unpaved roads, that's fine
too.

pt., 29 cze 2018, 12:00 użytkownik Paul Norman  napisał:

> I've been involved in OpenStreetMap Carto less and less, partially
> because I work with CartoCSS setups enough for work.
>
>
> On 2018-06-29 2:06 AM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> > And you are wrong that "nobody seems to be even noticing" complexity of
> > the roads code.  At least Lucas, Paul and me have a very good idea
> > about this.  And the unpaved roads rendering is not the problem here,
> > the problem is the complexity of roads rendering in general.
>
> I had a go at fixing the roads code with
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/2869, but
> didn't have free time. Based on that work, I'd estimate that the roads
> code is twice the size and complexity of what it needs to be.
>
> With the surface code merged, I would be unwilling to tackle a cleanup
> like that. I like the surface code as a technical demo, but find it's
> too much complexity for the style in a part of the style which is
> already difficult to understand.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[Paul Norman]

On 2018-06-29 2:48 AM, James wrote:

So what is intended to replace CartoCSS? Vector tiles?


CartoCSS is a styling language, vector tiles is an architecture choice. 
You can use CartoCSS with vector tiles, as the Cycle Map and Transport 
Map layers on osm.org do, or you can use CartoCSS with just conventional 
Mapnik, like the Standard and Humanitarian layers do.


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Re: [Talk-br] Contactei a Secretaria do Meio Ambiente e IGC/SP, sem sucesso

[Igor Eliezer Borges]

Boas notícias: o pessoal da DataGEO respondeu:

Prezado Igor,
> agradecemos por seu contato.
> O uso dos serviços WEB do DataGEO é livre, não há nenhuma restrição.
> Sobre o crédito, como são dados de autores diversos, favor sempre
> mencionar o autor, como exemplo:
> Autor: IGC -  Instituto Geográfico e Cartográfico do Estado de São Paulo
> (IGC-SP); Fonte: DataGEO/Secretaria do Meio Ambiente do Estado de São Paulo.
> Att.,
> Equipe DataGEO


Fiquei meio surpreso por não haver muitas exigências ou restrições além de
pedir a nota de crédito, visto que o site possui muita informação.
Endereço: http://datageo.ambiente.sp.gov.br/

Já venho usando o material no JOSM há umas semanas com a nota como me
pediram.

Att, Igor
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Re: [OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Max]

"Add the missing names to OSM in your language."

That is inflating the OSM database with something that Wikidata has 
solved already in a much better way. Why would someone from wikimedia 
recommend to create a less mentainable version of their database?




On 29.06.2018 12:18, Andy Mabbett wrote:

New Wikimedia Foundation blog post:

https://blog.wikimedia.org/2018/06/28/interactive-maps-now-in-your-language/




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[Talk-cz] Organizace OSM CZ

[Tom Ka]

Ahoj,

pripravny vybor ve slozeni vop.cz, tom.k a lada nesnera nachystal
revizi stanov chystaneho spolku, jejiz podobu najdete na adrese

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Stanovy_OSMCZ=1623570

Byly doplneny konkretni udaje, sjednoceny nepresnosti a rozpory a
hlavnim cilem bylo zjednoduseni a maximalni zkraceni celych stanov. Za
nas je takto text predlozitelny ke schvaleni na ustavujici schuzi
spolku (zrejme na SotM CZ 2018 na podzim) a ocekavame dalsi diskuzi a
navrhy na pripadne upravy.

Dalsim krokem je navrzeni kandidatu do rady spolku (celkem 3 osoby,
kandidatu tedy 3 a vice). Zadame timto osoby, ktere by byly ochotny do
rady kandidovat, at svuj zajem projevi zde na mail listu.

Pracovni termin pro organizaci konference SotM CZ 2018 je konec
listopadu 2018 v Brne, coz je i termin pro pripravu finalni verze
stanov a kandidatu do rady spolku.

Diky za pozornost tom.k, vop.cz a lada.

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[OSM-talk] WMF: "Interactive maps, now in your language"

[Andy Mabbett]

New Wikimedia Foundation blog post:

   https://blog.wikimedia.org/2018/06/28/interactive-maps-now-in-your-language/

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[Paul Norman]

I've been involved in OpenStreetMap Carto less and less, partially 
because I work with CartoCSS setups enough for work.



On 2018-06-29 2:06 AM, Christoph Hormann wrote:

And you are wrong that "nobody seems to be even noticing" complexity of
the roads code.  At least Lucas, Paul and me have a very good idea
about this.  And the unpaved roads rendering is not the problem here,
the problem is the complexity of roads rendering in general.


I had a go at fixing the roads code with 
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/2869, but 
didn't have free time. Based on that work, I'd estimate that the roads 
code is twice the size and complexity of what it needs to be.


With the surface code merged, I would be unwilling to tackle a cleanup 
like that. I like the surface code as a technical demo, but find it's 
too much complexity for the style in a part of the style which is 
already difficult to understand.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[James]

So what is intended to replace CartoCSS? Vector tiles?

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 5:42 AM Frederik Ramm,  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>without going into the finer details, I'd like to offer an outsider's
> view of OSM Carto development.
>
> When Andy first created OSM Carto, he set out a road map that has long
> been superseded but thanks to version control we can still look at it:
>
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/v1.0.0/README.md
>
> Essentially it was:
>
> v1.0 - re-implement existing stuff in carto
> v2.0 - make it more suitable for further development and customisation
> v3.0 - tackle the ticket backlog
>
> What has happened instead is that the easier-to-handle v2.0 was
> reasonably successful in attracting volunteers, and now we have a small
> team instead of one person doing the style, which is great. But after a
> while this small team has started milking the toolchain for all it's
> got, and meanwhile the SQL queries are so complex that they threaten to
> nullify any effort that has gone into making the style accessible to new
> participants (or people who want to customise it).
>
> So the ease of participating or customising has more or less already
> gone down the drain; what's still good about OSM Carto is that at least
> you can easily install it as-is on your own infrastructure (I regularly
> do that for business clients), but I fear it is only a matter of time
> until this aspect of usability, too, will be abandoned, and you will
> have to run massive pre-computation jobs in order to even get your map
> off the ground...
>
> Personally speaking, the OSM Carto map has been good enough for me and
> all my use cases for years now. If anything, I found the inflation of
> icons and special cases a bit irritating. I would love it if OSM Carto
> could be split into a "bread and butter" style that is easy to work
> with, easy on the eye and easy to render, and a "cartography
> navel-gazing" add-on where we show off how we can render different track
> patterns depending on the pebble size. We could then offer both on
> openstreetmap.org (where the bread-and-butter style would be the default).
>
> But I'm not involved in OSM Carto development and I won't tell people
> how to do their job. Occasionally when I look at OSM Carto tickets I am
> in awe about how much work goes into seemingly minor things - how
> details are diligently discussed, tried, tested, discarded, done
> differently, until they finally come to fruition in a release one year
> later. It is great to see this much work and enthusiasm invested in OSM
> Carto, and if the price for that is complicated SQL queries then so be
> it - the "bread and butter" style I was thinking of could be made by
> someone else too.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

   without going into the finer details, I'd like to offer an outsider's
view of OSM Carto development.

When Andy first created OSM Carto, he set out a road map that has long
been superseded but thanks to version control we can still look at it:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/v1.0.0/README.md

Essentially it was:

v1.0 - re-implement existing stuff in carto
v2.0 - make it more suitable for further development and customisation
v3.0 - tackle the ticket backlog

What has happened instead is that the easier-to-handle v2.0 was
reasonably successful in attracting volunteers, and now we have a small
team instead of one person doing the style, which is great. But after a
while this small team has started milking the toolchain for all it's
got, and meanwhile the SQL queries are so complex that they threaten to
nullify any effort that has gone into making the style accessible to new
participants (or people who want to customise it).

So the ease of participating or customising has more or less already
gone down the drain; what's still good about OSM Carto is that at least
you can easily install it as-is on your own infrastructure (I regularly
do that for business clients), but I fear it is only a matter of time
until this aspect of usability, too, will be abandoned, and you will
have to run massive pre-computation jobs in order to even get your map
off the ground...

Personally speaking, the OSM Carto map has been good enough for me and
all my use cases for years now. If anything, I found the inflation of
icons and special cases a bit irritating. I would love it if OSM Carto
could be split into a "bread and butter" style that is easy to work
with, easy on the eye and easy to render, and a "cartography
navel-gazing" add-on where we show off how we can render different track
patterns depending on the pebble size. We could then offer both on
openstreetmap.org (where the bread-and-butter style would be the default).

But I'm not involved in OSM Carto development and I won't tell people
how to do their job. Occasionally when I look at OSM Carto tickets I am
in awe about how much work goes into seemingly minor things - how
details are diligently discussed, tried, tested, discarded, done
differently, until they finally come to fruition in a release one year
later. It is great to see this much work and enthusiasm invested in OSM
Carto, and if the price for that is complicated SQL queries then so be
it - the "bread and butter" style I was thinking of could be made by
someone else too.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto design

[Christoph Hormann]

On Friday 29 June 2018, Daniel Koc4� wrote:
> > All in all this is a good example for OSM-Carto being at a
> > crossroads (and having been for quite some time) between staying
> > avant-garde and pushing the boundaries of cartographic design and
> > technology or being satisfied with shuffling the options offered by
> > the cartographic mainstream within the technological framework used
> > - and which, due to Mapnik and CartoCSS being essentially
> > unmaintained, becomes more narrow and limiting every year.
>
> I don't see a crossroad here: being avant-garde in cartographical
> sense might sound cool, proud and tempting,

I did not make any assumptions on avant-garde being a positive thing 
here.  In fact for a long time i have clearly said that i think that 
OSM map design should become more pluralistic.  But historically 
OSM-Carto has been and has meant to be avant-garde, in particular also 
to justify being rendered on OSMF infrastructure.

> This style codebase is large and that might sound like causing a
> problem with maintenance, but adding more features is far less
> challenging than something as sophisticated as for example "new" road
> code - and nobody seems to be even noticing how complicated it
> became.

You are making the wrong assumption here that code complexity and 
cartographic sophistication always need to go together.  But they 
don't.  There are plenty of examples of cartographic sophistication 
being implemented without additional code complexity as well as code 
complexity being added which was cartographically a step back.  You are 
also making the wrong implicit assumption that code complexity is the 
only major factor that negatively affects developers' ability to 
implement changes.

A huge part of the code complexity in OSM-Carto has been for a log time 
in workarounds for limitations in Mapnik and CartoCSS.

And you are wrong that "nobody seems to be even noticing" complexity of 
the roads code.  At least Lucas, Paul and me have a very good idea 
about this.  And the unpaved roads rendering is not the problem here, 
the problem is the complexity of roads rendering in general.

Right now OSM-Carto is in the position of a quasi-monopoly in what it 
does.  A potential competitor would need to mobilize a tile serving 
infrastructure at least roughly on the same level as that of the OSMF 
to seriously challenge it.  And this is quite a big hurdle.  This 
creates a pretty stable comfort zone where OSM-Carto can rest idly even 
if the world of digital cartography is progressing around it.

Ultimately this is not the question on what is the right development 
model for an open map design project.  This is about the almost 
complete lack of competitive pressure to make sure whatever development 
model is used it is challenged to deliver the best results (or be 
abandoned because it is unable to do so) - which is not happening for 
OSM-Carto right now.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-cz] Typ relace a jak by měla být vykreslena

[Miroslav Suchy]

Dne 29.6.2018 v 10:16 Lukáš Karas napsal(a):
> Která má v relaci uvedeno "leisure=park" a v outer cestě "place=islet" 
> a moc si s tím nevím rady. Pokud má renderer styl pro obě kombinace, 
> jak jej má vykreslit?
> 
> Trochu by mi dávalo smysl chovat se jako v případě jednoduché oblasti která 
> má 
> oba klíče - v tom případě by vyhrál první styl který se na oblast napasuje. 
> Ale jde takové chování dělat obecně? Nenapadá mě teď konkrétní případ, ale 
> mohlo by to vést na docela divoké kombinace...

V tomhle pripade ma zcela urcite vyhrat prvni styl. Islet chapu, tak ze kdyz ho 
dam doprostred vodni plochy, tak se ta
oblast ma vykresil jinak nez modre. Seda je uplne v poho. Park pak je 
upresneni. Takze by mel zvitezit.

Zobecnovat podle me nejde. Napr. Sloup a rozcestnik na jednom bode by mel 
vyhrat (opet IMHO) rozcestnik.

Hraz a silnice se da vykreslit dohromady. Plot a zahradka jde taky dohromady.

Studanka a rozcestnik na jednom uzlu uz ale proste nepujde.

Mirek




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Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

[Michael]

>From “The Cambridge Guide to Australian English Usage”

 

Page 713-714 https://books.google.com.au/books?id=FKpcDwAAQBAJ

 

Saint or St The conventions for writing saints' names depend on the context:

whether it's a reference to the saint himself or herself, or to an institution 
or place

named after them.

  The names of saints are only prefaced by Saint in books which describe their

life and works. Incidental references to them in history books and encyclopedias

are usually abbreviated to St. In the indexes to religious books, saints' names 
are entered

alphabetically according to their given names, with Saint following:

  Thomas Aquinas, Saint

In other references St is used, Churches are identified this way: St Mary's 
Cathedral,

St John's Church, as are other associated institutions: Brotherhood of St 
Laurence, St

Vincent de Paul. Purely secular institutions such as the St George Building 
Society

and the St Kilda Football Club naturally use the abbreviation.

 

It goes on but I can’t copy-paste from there so I had to type that, feel free 
to read it at your leisure.

 

Michael

 

 

From: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Friday, 29 June 2018 6:04 PM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

 

Many church names in Australia have names containing 'Saint' followed by a 
persons name these are are commonly abbreviated 'St'.
I expand these out to Saint. I think that is correct in the English language. 
 
I don't think the alt_name should carry the abbreviation, nor an expanded 
version. 
 
For St Leonards .. there are two Saint Leonards 
Saint Leonard of Port Maurice 1676-1751
Saint Leonard of Noblac -559
 
Saint Peter is well known ... well one of them at least. :) 
 
 Following a UK example? 
Having a bet both ways ? In the UK a search on St Leonard lead me to 
 
Node: Drayton Saint Leonard (21268304) - Saint - centre of the place.
Relation: Drayton St. Leonard (1864544)- St. - parish boundary.
 
Yes these are both the same area. 
 
So .. for the suburbs/towns/villages at least it can be done both ways .. 
without using alt_name.  


On 29/06/18 17:31, Michael wrote:

The usage of Saint “Name” is wrong in the English language and should not be 
used.

 

The only time you use that notation is when you write about the person 
specifically.

 

Also in French Saint “Name” is acceptable just to be confusing, but this about 
Australian names and they should all be English (Unlike Canada)

 

What we might have to consider is that in indexing you use Saint not St, do we 
need to have it explicitly in the tagging (ie alt_name) or is this the 
responsibility of the renderer to work out?

 

Michael

 

 

From: Nemanja Bračko    
Sent: Friday, 29 June 2018 5:02 PM
To: phi...@philipmallis.com  
Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org  
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

 

​​

Hi!
The easiest way is to add alt_name with abbreviation. Also if community agrees, 
it is possible to put abbreviation in the name tag (because of rendering name 
on the map), but use "Saint" as alt_name.

 

Best Regrads,

Nemanja

 

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:18 AM Philip Mallis mailto:phi...@philipmallis.com> > wrote:

It depends on the context. St Kilda in Melbourne is another example where that 
is used instead of 'Saint'.

Sent from my iPhone


On 29 Jun 2018, at 10:28, cleary mailto:o...@97k.com> > wrote:

In New South Wales, the Geographic Names Board register shows the Sydney suburb 
Mount Druitt (no abbreviation) while the adjacent suburb is St Marys (always St 
and never Saint). The same applies to places named St Peters and St Leonards. 
Using the word "Saint" would not accord with the places' official names. 

 

I understand there is a tendency to remove sectarian references so that "St" 
can be pronounced as the speaker wishes and is not necessarily "Saint".

 

 

 

 

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, at 5:21 AM, Nathan Ginther (Insight Global Inc) wrote:

Hello all, our team has come into an interesting situation regarding road name 
abbreviations, we know that as a policy we spell out any and all abbreviations 
on the OSM map, however it looks like we may have run into an exception in the 
use of “Saint vs St” 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Invalid_Abbreviation_Expansion).  It looks 
like the use of “St” instead of spelling out “Saint” is accepted within the 
mapping community, and might be the proper English spelling, but we want to get 
the response from the community as what is the accepted/preferred use when 
naming roads specifically, should we be spelling out Saint, or using St?

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[Talk-it] Orari di apertura pompe di benzina

[Andrea Musuruane]

Ciao,
la maggior parte delle pompe di benzina è aperta 24h/24, perché
dispongono di impianti self-service.

Però, nel caso in cui ci siano presenti anche distributori di metano e/o
GPL, è richiesta la presenza di un operatore. Pertanto, l'orario è
differente.

C'è modo di segnalarlo?

Grazie,

Andrea
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[OSM-talk-fr] Fwd: Convention pour intégration dans OSM

[Simon Réau]

 Bonjour,

Je transfère mon message initialement envoyé sur la liste pro avec les
commentaires de Vincent BERGEOT

N'hésitez pas à faire des remarques et suggestions.

Je peux le mettre sur le wiki ou sur le site openstreetmap.fr ci cela
semble pertinent.

Cordialement

Simon REAU


Date : 19 juin 2018 à 14:25
Objet : Convention pour intégration dans OSM
À : pro...@listes.openstreetmap.fr


Bonjour,

Je réveille la liste Pro qui semble un peux endormie ;-)

Pour nous simplifier la tache sur les autorisations d'intégration ou de mis
à disposition de fichier pour OpenStreetMap nous travaillons sur un
document type qui s'adapterait à la majorité des situations.

-Mis à disposition des contributeurs de fichier à intégrer
-Demande d'intégration de fichier
-Mis à disposition d'Orthophoto

Nous avons commencé une ébauche https://cloud.monsieur-a.fr/
index.php/s/rxCZgLM7oCZc8gT

Toutes les remarques et amélioration sont les bienvenues, le but étant que
ce document soit largement diffusé et réutilisé.


Simon REAU
GEOVELO
www.geovelo.fr
simon.r...@geovelo.fr
Tél : 06 77 15 59 86
MAME, 49 Boulevard de Preuilly, 37000 Tours






-- 

Simon REAU
GEOVELO
www.geovelo.fr
simon.r...@geovelo.fr
Tél : 06 77 15 59 86
MAME, 49 Boulevard de Preuilly, 37000 Tours

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Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

[Warin]

Further thought;
I'm certain the Federal Governments 'Style Manual for authors, editors and 
printers.' would have something to say on it.

It looks like I can borrow it from a local library.

ISBN 0701636483 (pkb), 0701636475
https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/13429246?q=Style+manual=book



On 29/06/18 18:03, Warin wrote:

   
 
   
   
 
   
Many church names in Australia have names containing 'Saint' followed by a persons name these are are commonly abbreviated 'St'.
   
I expand these out to Saint. I think that is correct in the English language.
   
I don't think the alt_name should carry the abbreviation, nor an expanded version.
   
For St Leonards .. there are two Saint Leonards
   
Saint Leonard of Port Maurice 1676-1751
   
Saint Leonard of Noblac -559
   
Saint Peter is well known ... well one of them at least. :)
   
 Following a UK example?
   
Having a bet both ways ? In the UK a search on St Leonard lead me to


Node: Drayton Saint Leonard (21268304) - Saint - centre of the place.
   
Relation: Drayton St. Leonard (1864544)- St. - parish boundary.


Yes these are both the same area.
   
So .. for the suburbs/towns/villages at least it can be done both ways .. without using alt_name.
   


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Cartographier les voies vertes

[jabali]

Bonjour,
Une voie pietonne autorisée aux cycles avec restriction ( priorité pietons)
se tagge en Allemagne avec
highway=footway
"foot=designated" 
et 
bicycle=yes

Les vélos ont simplement autorisation d'accés sur une infrastructure conçue
et dédiée en priorité ( par la signalétique) pour les piétons
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Bicycle/Radverkehrsanlagen_kartieren#highway.3Dpath

Si l'on a une infrastructure de type piste cyclable-pieton partagée, on
retrouve le classique
highway=path
bicycle=designated
foot=desiganted

ou les 2 sont à égalité en droit de passage.


Antoine Riche-2 wrote
> Les voies vertes couvrent différentes structures physiques : un chemin de
> halage (typiquement highway=track ou service), une ancienne voie ferrée
> sur laquelle un bel enrobé est créé (qui mériterait un highway=cycleway),
> ou encore un chemin piéton partagé avec les cyclistes (highway=footway ou
> path). Est-ce que le fait de poser un panneau C115 devrait appauvrir cette
> finesse en un simple highway=path ? 

Il me semble qu'il y a peut être en France confusion entre "voie verte"
infrastructure et "voie verte" itinéraire.
En tant qu'infrastructure, une voie verte ne peut pas être un highway track
ou service ( sauf exeptions très ponctuelles)

voir def track et service.
A noter qu'un highway=track peut être asphalté. type=1


Par contre "voie verte" en tant qu'itinéraire tout est effectivement
possible.

La "voie verte" Foix -St-Girons emprunte par ex de tronçons
highway=residential .
Dans ce cas là vaudrait mieux passer simplement par une relation route.

++




--
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[Talk-cz] Typ relace a jak by měla být vykreslena

[Lukáš Karas]

Ahoj, řeším drobný bug v OSM Scout rendereru:
https://github.com/Framstag/libosmscout/issues/622

A narazil jsem přitom na Pražskou Štvanici:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3366544

Která má v relaci uvedeno "leisure=park" a v outer cestě "place=islet" 
a moc si s tím nevím rady. Pokud má renderer styl pro obě kombinace, 
jak jej má vykreslit?

Trochu by mi dávalo smysl chovat se jako v případě jednoduché oblasti která má 
oba klíče - v tom případě by vyhrál první styl který se na oblast napasuje. 
Ale jde takové chování dělat obecně? Nenapadá mě teď konkrétní případ, ale 
mohlo by to vést na docela divoké kombinace...

Lukáš

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Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

[Warin]

Many church names in Australia have names containing 'Saint' followed by a 
persons name these are are commonly abbreviated 'St'.

I expand these out to Saint. I think that is correct in the English language.

I don't think the alt_name should carry the abbreviation, nor an expanded 
version.

For St Leonards .. there are two Saint Leonards

Saint Leonard of Port Maurice 1676-1751

Saint Leonard of Noblac -559

Saint Peter is well known ... well one of them at least. :)

 Following a UK example?

Having a bet both ways ? In the UK a search on St Leonard lead me to

Node: Drayton Saint Leonard (21268304) - Saint - centre of the place.

Relation: Drayton St. Leonard (1864544)- St. - parish boundary.

Yes these are both the same area.

So .. for the suburbs/towns/villages at least it can be done both ways .. 
without using alt_name.


On 29/06/18 17:31, Michael wrote:


The usage of Saint “Name” is wrong in the English language and should 
not be used.


The only time you use that notation is when you write about the person 
specifically.


Also in French Saint “Name” is acceptable just to be confusing, but 
this about Australian names and they should all be English (Unlike Canada)


What we might have to consider is that in indexing you use S*a*int not 
S*t*, do we need to have it explicitly in the tagging (ie alt_name) or 
is this the responsibility of the renderer to work out?


Michael

*From:*Nemanja Bračko 
*Sent:* Friday, 29 June 2018 5:02 PM
*To:* phi...@philipmallis.com
*Cc:* talk-au@openstreetmap.org
*Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

​​

Hi!
The easiest way is to add alt_name with abbreviation. Also if 
community agrees, it is possible to put abbreviation in the name tag 
(because of rendering name on the map), but use "Saint" as alt_name.


Best Regrads,

Nemanja

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:18 AM Philip Mallis > wrote:


It depends on the context. St Kilda in Melbourne is another
example where that is used instead of 'Saint'.

Sent from my iPhone


On 29 Jun 2018, at 10:28, cleary mailto:o...@97k.com>> wrote:

In New South Wales, the Geographic Names Board register shows
the Sydney suburb Mount Druitt (no abbreviation) while the
adjacent suburb is St Marys (always St and never Saint). The
same applies to places named St Peters and St Leonards. Using
the word "Saint" would not accord with the places' official
names.

I understand there is a tendency to remove sectarian
references so that "St" can be pronounced as the speaker
wishes and is not necessarily "Saint".

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, at 5:21 AM, Nathan Ginther (Insight
Global Inc) wrote:

Hello all, our team has come into an interesting situation
regarding road name abbreviations, we know that as a
policy we spell out any and all abbreviations on the OSM
map, however it looks like we may have run into an
exception in the use of “Saint vs St”

(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Invalid_Abbreviation_Expansion).
It looks like the use of “St” instead of spelling out
“Saint” is accepted within the mapping community, and
might be the proper English spelling, but we want to get
the response from the community as what is the
accepted/preferred use when naming roads specifically,
should we be spelling out Saint, or using St?

_

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Re: [Talk-GB] Q3 2018: Paths and rights of way

[Adam Snape]

Hi,

Whilst I'd be honoured to be responsible for a resource as good as
MapThePaths, it is Nick Whitelegg's work. I've changed the Wiki accordingly.

Kind regards,

Adam

On 28 June 2018 at 23:01, Martyn Evans  wrote:

> Great project, especially now we have the excellent MapThePaths tool.  One
> lesson from viewing that is to stress the importance of the designation tag
> (mea culpa, I've omitted that sometimes in the past ...)
> Also, can the MapThePaths view have a way of visualising permissive paths
> - I don't know of another map which could bring them all together.   They
> are often 'signed' with poorly printed A4 paper documents tacked to posts
> which rapidly deteriorate, leaving no certain record if visited a while
> after they are established.
> The wiki stub should link to the UK PROW pages
>
> let's get walking,
> cheers, Martyn (sobbomapper)
>
>
>
> On 28/06/18 21:35, Rob Nickerson wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> With summer aligning with recent interest in footpaths, let's spend the
> next 3 months project focusing on paths and rights of way.
>
> I have created a wiki page (stub). Please add to it:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_2018_Q3_Project:_Path
> s_and_rights_of_way
>
> We can also do with a blog post for OSM UK and twitter. Any volunteers to
> write this?
>
> Cheers,
> *Rob*
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Council Footpath data

[Adam Snape]

Hi All,

As the quarterly project has just been announced I thought I'd provide an
update on my progress with systematically contacting councils regarding
PRoW data.  I'm trying to get as many as possible released, up-to-date,
under a clear unambiguous OGL3 licence and pro-actively published by the
councils (thus removing the need to repeat the process a couple of years
down the line.

As you can imagine it's a large task, so the time taken to do it and the
speed of local government action means that in many cases results won't be
useable until after the quarterly project. That said, progress so far is
encouraging,  I've checked or contacted all the county councils and I've
started working my way through the Metropolitan Boroughs/Unitary
Authorities. The responses I've had back have mostly been fairly
encouraging (a minority less than encouraging!), I've had quite a few
updated or new datasets, OGL licences and Open Data releases, some of which
I have already sent to Barry at Rowmaps, I have a few more which I'll send
in the coming days. Perhaps most encouragingly a surprisingly high
proportion (albeit probably still a minority) have committed to proactively
publish their data in the coming months.

Finally, In the coming days  I'll update Rob Whittaker with my progress so
that his PRoW OpenData table ( http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/open-data/
) so that it can be updated.

Kind regards,

Adam Snape

On 1 June 2018 at 09:10, Nick Whitelegg  wrote:

>
> Hello Adam,
>
> That's great - that will be very useful.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Adam Snape 
> *Sent:* 31 May 2018 19:07:05
> *To:* Nick Whitelegg
> *Cc:* Robert Whittaker (OSM lists); Talk GB
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Council Footpath data
>
> Hi Nick,
>
> Yes Hampshire's data is unambiguously available for use under OGL3.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Adam
>
> On Thu, 31 May 2018, 09:52 Nick Whitelegg, 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> (Adam - apologies for not quoting, but this email client performs the
> annoying habit of top-posting and haven't figured out a way to get it to do
> standard quotes).
>
>
> So, just to clarify, taking my local authority (Hampshire) as an example,
> does this page _definitely_ confirm that their RoW data is available under
> OGL?
>
>
> https://www.hants.gov.uk/aboutthecouncil/informationandstats/opendata/
> opendatasearch/publicrightsofway
>
>
> Reason being that I'm now in a position where I may be able to do
> something with this data and I'd like to use Hampshire as it's my local
> county.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Adam Snape 
> *Sent:* 30 May 2018 11:37:47
> *To:* Nick Whitelegg
> *Cc:* Robert Whittaker (OSM lists); talk-gb
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Council Footpath data
>
> Hi,
>
> Just a word of warning to double check the licensing terms before use.
> Many councils' licensing is ambiguous in that they'll refer to the OGL then
> state or link to the incompatible OS Open Data attribution terms.
>
> Whilst it's a wonderful resource and I think Barry has done a great job,
> the rowmaps site doesn't help with licensing clarity. There are quite a few
> references to unverifiable private email communications where the licence
> terms differ from the publicly available terms. Any mention of the OGL is
> taken at face value even if when checked the licence is actually the OS
> modified OGL ie. the incompatible OS Open Data licence! Perhaps most
> seriously, rowmaps also relies on a misinterpretation of communication with
> OS to suggest that OS Open Data licensed material is now automatically OGL3
> licenced material.
>
> All of this matters very little to most users of rowmaps but for OSM
> purposes as we require ODBL compatibility we need greater clarity.
>
> Over the coming months I'm hoping to individually clarify licensing with
> all of the authorities which haven't explicitly, unambiguously and publicly
> licensed their RoW data under OGL3 (and, yes, I know that's most of them).
> I'll also try and get new or updated data where not currently available or
> several years old. Ideally I'll get the authorities to include a clear
> unambiguous licence on their websites but, failing that, I'll publish the
> relevant communication online so that it is verifiable and we do at least
> have certainty about the data currently available to us.
>
> In the slightly longer term I think our aim needs to be to persuade all
> authorities to proactively publish new versions of their data as open data,
> rather than individuals having to individually badger authorities to update
> their data. Under their Publication Schemes they should start doing this
> automatically once information is supplied the first time, but it seems
> that only a minority of authorities who have released data currently
> publish it proactively.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Adam
>
>
> On 27 May 2018 at 11:21, Nick Whitelegg 
> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for that - looks like a few councils are OGL 

Re: [Talk-it] Zona industriale

[Federico Cortese]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 2:47 PM claudio duchi  wrote:
>
> Zona industriale, vi sono zone edificate altre zone ex agricole abbandonate 
> non coltivate. Zone non accessibili ne utilizzabili come parco etc... Parte 
> degli edifici industriali e non sono stati inseriti non da me. Le zone ex 
> agricole non sono state inserite. Come comportarsi? Non inserire questi 
> terreni attendendo l'urbanizzazione? Inserirli ma come?

Se li vuoi inserire devi indicare il reale stato in cui si trovano,
indipendentemente dal fatto che la zona sia tipizzata come industriale
dallo strumento urbanistico.
Se sono in qualche modo utilizzati anche a scopo agricolo, potrai
mettere un apposito tag landuse, diversamente se ci sono terreni
completamente abbandonati potresti anche valutare il tag natural.
Se per esempio un terreno è completamente incolto e vi cresce solo
erba, può anche essere indicato con natural=grassland.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

[Michael]

The usage of Saint “Name” is wrong in the English language and should not be 
used.

 

The only time you use that notation is when you write about the person 
specifically.

 

Also in French Saint “Name” is acceptable just to be confusing, but this about 
Australian names and they should all be English (Unlike Canada)

 

What we might have to consider is that in indexing you use Saint not St, do we 
need to have it explicitly in the tagging (ie alt_name) or is this the 
responsibility of the renderer to work out?

 

Michael

 

 

From: Nemanja Bračko  
Sent: Friday, 29 June 2018 5:02 PM
To: phi...@philipmallis.com
Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

 

​​

Hi!
The easiest way is to add alt_name with abbreviation. Also if community agrees, 
it is possible to put abbreviation in the name tag (because of rendering name 
on the map), but use "Saint" as alt_name.

 

Best Regrads,

Nemanja

 

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:18 AM Philip Mallis mailto:phi...@philipmallis.com> > wrote:

It depends on the context. St Kilda in Melbourne is another example where that 
is used instead of 'Saint'.

Sent from my iPhone


On 29 Jun 2018, at 10:28, cleary mailto:o...@97k.com> > wrote:

In New South Wales, the Geographic Names Board register shows the Sydney suburb 
Mount Druitt (no abbreviation) while the adjacent suburb is St Marys (always St 
and never Saint). The same applies to places named St Peters and St Leonards. 
Using the word "Saint" would not accord with the places' official names. 

 

I understand there is a tendency to remove sectarian references so that "St" 
can be pronounced as the speaker wishes and is not necessarily "Saint".

 

 

 

 

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, at 5:21 AM, Nathan Ginther (Insight Global Inc) wrote:

Hello all, our team has come into an interesting situation regarding road name 
abbreviations, we know that as a policy we spell out any and all abbreviations 
on the OSM map, however it looks like we may have run into an exception in the 
use of “Saint vs St” 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Invalid_Abbreviation_Expansion).  It looks 
like the use of “St” instead of spelling out “Saint” is accepted within the 
mapping community, and might be the proper English spelling, but we want to get 
the response from the community as what is the accepted/preferred use when 
naming roads specifically, should we be spelling out Saint, or using St?

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Re: [Talk-cz] neaktualizují se údaje o fotkách rozzcestníků

[Zdeněk Pražák]

nepoužití fotky je správně
-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Tom Ka 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 29. 6. 2018 9:08:17
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] neaktualizují se údaje o fotkách rozzcestníků
"Ted jsem se dival a 19912 je na nepouzitych fotkach, jestli je to
dobre pak jeste proverim.

Z historie jsem dohledal, ze se poprve objevila jako nepouzita v z
behu 2018.06.28-16:08:01.
Samotna fotka byla nahrana zrejme 2018.06.27-18:05. Podle vseho od
27.06 12:08 do 28.06 16:08 neprobehly korektne analyzy, proc se
pokusim zjsitit.

Bye


Dne 28. června 2018 10:25 Zdeněk Pražák  napsal(a):
> Včera jsem nahrál několik fotek rozcestníků z okolí Vizovic a tyto fotky
se
> neaktualizovaly na seznamu nepoužitých fotek na
> https://osm.fit.vutbr.cz/OsmHiCheck/gp/?all
>
> viz např fotka s ID 19912
>
> Pražák
>
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Re: [Talk-cz] neaktualizují se údaje o fotkách rozzcestníků

[Tom Ka]

Ted jsem se dival a 19912 je na nepouzitych fotkach, jestli je to
dobre pak jeste proverim.

Z historie jsem dohledal, ze se poprve objevila jako nepouzita v z
behu 2018.06.28-16:08:01.
Samotna fotka byla nahrana zrejme 2018.06.27-18:05. Podle vseho od
27.06 12:08 do 28.06 16:08 neprobehly korektne analyzy, proc se
pokusim zjsitit.

Bye


Dne 28. června 2018 10:25 Zdeněk Pražák  napsal(a):
> Včera jsem nahrál několik fotek rozcestníků z okolí Vizovic a tyto fotky se
> neaktualizovaly na seznamu nepoužitých fotek na
> https://osm.fit.vutbr.cz/OsmHiCheck/gp/?all
>
> viz např fotka s ID 19912
>
> Pražák
>
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>

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Re: [talk-au] Road name abbreviation exception?

[Nemanja Bračko]

​​
Hi!
The easiest way is to add alt_name with abbreviation. Also if community
agrees, it is possible to put abbreviation in the name tag (because of
rendering name on the map), but use "Saint" as alt_name.

Best Regrads,
Nemanja

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:18 AM Philip Mallis 
wrote:

> It depends on the context. St Kilda in Melbourne is another example where
> that is used instead of 'Saint'.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 29 Jun 2018, at 10:28, cleary  wrote:
>
> In New South Wales, the Geographic Names Board register shows the Sydney
> suburb Mount Druitt (no abbreviation) while the adjacent suburb is St Marys
> (always St and never Saint). The same applies to places named St Peters and
> St Leonards. Using the word "Saint" would not accord with the places'
> official names.
>
> I understand there is a tendency to remove sectarian references so that
> "St" can be pronounced as the speaker wishes and is not necessarily "Saint".
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, at 5:21 AM, Nathan Ginther (Insight Global Inc)
> wrote:
>
> Hello all, our team has come into an interesting situation regarding road
> name abbreviations, we know that as a policy we spell out any and all
> abbreviations on the OSM map, however it looks like we may have run into an
> exception in the use of “Saint vs St” (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Invalid_Abbreviation_Expansion).  It
> looks like the use of “St” instead of spelling out “Saint” is accepted
> within the mapping community, and might be the proper English spelling, but
> we want to get the response from the community as what is the
> accepted/preferred use when naming roads specifically, should we be
> spelling out Saint, or using St?
> *___*
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] US building footprint data

[Jubal Harpster]

Hi jmb,
We don't know what new uses for the data people will come up with but we're 
excited to watch it develop. I would imagine in the next couple of days 
somebody will run it all through Tippecanoe...

Can't comment on other countries right now, but we're ambitious. As the imagery 
and models improve we may have subsequent releases.

-Jubal

From: Jmapb 
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 1:25 PM
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] US building footprint data


Thanks Jubal, this looks like fantastic no-nonsense work. Seems like it might 
be wise to wait until after the Milan conference to see if a recommended 
workflow will emerge to begin putting these footprints to use.

Any plans to publish data for other countries? How about quarterly diffs?

jmb

On 6/28/2018 12:37 PM, Jubal Harpster wrote:
Hi Everyone,

Today Microsoft released ~125M computer generated building footprints. You can 
read about the release on the Bing Maps Blog 
(https://blogs.bing.com/maps/2018-06/microsoft-releases-125-million-building-footprints-in-the-us-as-open-data)

There is additional technical detail on the creation process and links to 
directly download the data in geojson format in the public git repo here 
(https://github.com/Microsoft/USBuildingFootprints)

Enjoy.
-Jubal




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