BLEACHED BONES (was Re: Multiple email everything.)

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

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Hi Tim,

On 13 January 2001 at 15:54:09 -0500 (which was 20:54 where I
live) Tim Musson wrote and made these points:

TM> Hey Olivier,

Tim has already apologised off-list for this posting, having read my
DH announcements after hitting "send".

Olivier - if you want to respond - OFF-LIST please!

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA
 
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs   ]

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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Tim Musson]

Hey Olivier,

Friday, January 12, 2001, 8:43:24 PM, you wrote:

>>Have I missed something?! If I haven't - and this looks like a
>>solution for you - , you could use the SMTP-server of
>>webmail-providers like www.myrealbox.com , www.gmx.net , www.yahoo.com
>>or  www.operamail.com .
OR> I'll check them and see if they allow me to SMTP send using the
OR> from-addresses I need.

I had a similar (but much smaller and less complex) problem, that I
think I have figured out mostly today - possibly it will solve your
problems?

One of the services of the people hosting my domain for me is as many
mail addresses (.forward) as I want.  So I have [EMAIL PROTECTED] that
forwards to an account at MyRealBox.  I set up TB to pull from the MRB
pop, and the account is set up as [EMAIL PROTECTED] for everything except
the MRB user id/pw.  I set smpt and pop to pop.myrealbox.com, then for
the smtp "Authentication...", I checked "Perform SMTP Authentication
(RFC 2554)".  Now when I connect with my ISP that does not block port
25, I can do a send and TB authenticates and uploads my mail!

So if you could set this up for one of your accounts, have all the
other accounts configured to push all the Outbox contents to the one
MyRealBox account, you may be all set...?

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using The Bat! eMail v1.49
Windows NT 5.0.2195 (Service Pack 1)
Bad command or file name!  GO stand in the corner.

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FOETID REMAINS (was Re: Multiple email everything.)

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

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Hi Olivier,

On 13 January 2001 at 13:50:41 +0100 (which was 12:50 where I
live) Olivier Reubens wrote and made these points:

- -8<-

Stop  this  conversation NOW please I first asked four days ago.
You've  had  enough time to take it off list or wind it down. If you
ignore this final demand I will have no alternative but to evict you
from this list.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA
 
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs   ]

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ROTTING CORPSE (was Re: Multiple email everything.)

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

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Hi Olivier,

On 13 January 2001 at 13:38:25 +0100 (which was 12:38 where I
live) Olivier Reubens wrote and made these points:

OR> On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:06:27 -0800, you wrote:

No  no  no! A DEAD HORSE is a DEAD HORSE. No more on this topic here
please.

- --
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[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
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Re: Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:45:30 +0100, you wrote:

>But, nothing I suggested will prevent you from this. Simply set up as
>many mailboxes as you like and let each have it own "From" and
>"Reply"-name - but let all have *the same* smtp-settings. I promise
>you, that this will work, as I am doing it currently!
It would require an SMTP that allows me to connect and use regardless
of where I connected from. And I haven't found one of those yet.
Still need to check the ones you gave, will get you an answer on that
soon :-)

>But you have no viable alternative because your ISP's do not *allow*
>you any alternative. Who is dictating then?
The ISPA (local governing body for belgium ISP's) and EuroISPA (same
but for europe) do not allow belgium (european) ISP's to have open
SMTP servers.

>What I meant was this: If you start using one of the suggested
>addresses and get your various correspondents used to send to *that*
>address, you'll be able to enjoy the benefits of using a *web-account*
>for sending and retrieving mail - namely, the benefit of reading your
>mail where ever there is a device with a browser. After your messages
>are read on the web-interface of your web-account, you just mark them
>all "unread" and they are ready for TB to download them when you get
>home to your PC.
I don't WANT webmail. I hate it, tried using hotmail for our mail
needs once. It's slow, uncomfortable and requires you to be connected
to read mail. Something I definately don't want to do when I'm using
the GSM to dial into.  
Customers should send inquiries/questions... to the mailboxes of the
company (domain) they're interested in.  And even after 1 year of
abandonning the trial we still get occasional mails there.  Don't
wanna go there again.

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Re: Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:06:27 -0800, you wrote:

>Quick and short from what I've read you might try centralinfo.net.
>There you can host your domain, website, pop and smtp mail from any
>location or web access.  Price is cheap enough at $8.00 US per month
>for a long list of services and disk space.  The only draw-back I've
>seen is a curious person could see your domain is on a uslive.net
>virtual server in the header (see mine). I find this trivial do to the
>great customer support the give.
They're ALL cheap enough at offering certain services, and some are
cheap at service a but expensive at service b.  With other ISP it's
just the other way around.  This is why I'm currently using 6 ISP's to
get everything I need done.  Most can't offer EVERYTHING I need, and
of the few that do, they simply charge too much for the whole package
of services I need.  What I REALLY need, is my own dedicated server,
but I can't afford the cost of a dedicated SDSL or T1 or comparable
speed link.  So we have a server hosting at one location (contract
stating which services we can run, so can't put an SMTP there), and
web sites at another ISP, and ... ) 
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:31:53 -0800, you wrote:

>customers), against a table of allowed IP addresses. I really
>don't think the from email address on the email makes any
>difference here, but rather the IP it originates from.
At least one of the ISP's I'm using checks the "from" and just denies
any mail that doesn't have a valid address, and it doesn't only check
the domain, it checks the mailboxname too.  Apparently (so they claim)
they do this as a means of making sure users of their services have
set up their mail client properly.
Can't really say this is bad practice, I'm getting LOTS of mails where
a reply will return with "mail address unknown" or something similar.
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Re: SMTP setting at folder level (was Re[2]: Multiple email everything.)

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

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Hi David,

On 13 January 2001 at 11:40:17 +0100 (which was 10:40 where I
live) David Buntenbroich wrote and made these points:

DB> By the way, I started a new thread since the old one was made a Dead
DB> Horse by one of the moderators. (And your question was not really
DB> related to the thread anyway ;-).)

Here's  another  good  reason not to start a new thread with a reply
:-). (also against list "recommendations").

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[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
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Re: SMTP setting at folder level (was Re[2]: Multiple email everything.)

[David Buntenbroich]

Hi,

Saturday, January 13, 2001, 11:40:17 AM, I wrote:

> You might want to create a filter to move sent messages back to the
> first account's outbox.
  **
  Of course, I meant the sent folder.

-- 
Regards,
David

David Buntenbroich
 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.buntenbroich.de

The Bat! 1.49c on Windows NT 5 0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1



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SMTP setting at folder level (was Re[2]: Multiple email everything.)

[David Buntenbroich]

Hello Shahar,

Saturday, January 13, 2001, 11:13:58 AM, you wrote:

> Can I set an SMTP settings to a folder within an account so I can
> force the messages to be sent from that specific folder through a
> specific SMTP server ?

I think, the only thing you can do is to create a dummy account (or
use an existing one with the specific SMTP settings) and put the
%ACCOUNT="account name" macro into your folder templates.

You might want to create a filter to move sent messages back to the
first account's outbox.

By the way, I started a new thread since the old one was made a Dead
Horse by one of the moderators. (And your question was not really
related to the thread anyway ;-).)



David

-- 
David Buntenbroich
 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.buntenbroich.de

The Bat! 1.49c on Windows NT 5 0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1



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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Shahar SAVYON]

Hello Jannik. On Friday, January 12, 2001, at 16:51:47, you wrote about:
"Multiple email everything."


> Hello Olivier and other TBUDL's,

> On Friday, January 05, 2001 at 00:03:12 GMT +0100 Olivier Reubens wrote on "Multiple 
>email everything.":

OR>> 1) If I have received an e-mail into one of the mailboxes of an
OR>> account which ISP I'm not connected to at the moment, I CAN
OR>> retrieve the mail, but when replying it'll fail (relaying denied).
OR>> I can solve this from the mail-edit window via Options, Active
OR>> account, but I need to change it for each message.  Is there a way
OR>> to "lock" which account to use for sending messages.  I don't mind
OR>> the originating address to mismatch the "from" address which they
OR>> will reply to.  Most aren't smart enough to figure out how to
OR>> obtain the real originating address anyway :-)


Can I set an SMTP settings to a folder within an account so I can force the messages 
to be
sent from that specific folder through a specific SMTP server ?



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DEAD HORSE (was Re: Multiple email everything.)

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

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Hi Elden,

On 13 January 2001 at 22:31:53 -0800 (which was 06:31 where I
live) Elden Fenison wrote and made these points:

ME>> They won't, because they don't allow relaying. You need to
ME>> set up you own mail server. MDaemon (software) or Cobalt Cube
ME>> (hardware) or Linux sendmail.

EF> My two cents on this...

So  far, the bill's up to about ten thousand bucks on this topic and
it hasn't been about The Bat! for a lng time. I have to scare it
off-list. Sorry Olivier - I realize you don't have a complete answer
yet, but I have already killed this thread once on the 7th.

Can I recommend that you take it to TBOT for further discussion?

For those who don't know about it:
- -8<-
TBOT  is The Bat Off-Topic discussion list. It is a list set up by one
of  our  members  on egroups which takes the "overspill" conversations
from TBUDL and TBBETA.

Here  is  the segment of the TBUDL welcome message which tells of its'
existence and of how to join:

==
  TBOT - The Bat off topic discussion list
==
One  of  our members has created a list for those occasional off topic
discussions  of  public  interest. Please feel free to join this list,
where many of our readership currently participate.

Addresses:
Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -8<-

So, as far as this topic goes on *this* list it's a DEAD HORSE (that
means *no* more traffic here).

I will be getting tough next!

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[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Elden Fenison]

Jannik,

On Friday, January 12, 2001, 9:45:30 PM, you wrote:

JL> But, nothing I suggested will prevent you from this. Simply
JL> set up as many mailboxes as you like and let each have it own
JL> "From" and "Reply"-name - but let all have *the same*
JL> smtp-settings. I promise you, that this will work, as I am
JL> doing it currently!

The from email address has no bearing normally... the important
thing is that you send email using the server of the ISP you're
connected to. They will know by that that you are one of "theirs"
and allow you to send anything you like.

This assumes that there is no authentication on the SMTP
connection... perhaps an ISP could allow authenticated users to
send regardless of their IP, and I would imagine some do.


-- 

 -=Elden=-
 http://www.moondog.org



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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Elden Fenison]

Manfred,

On Friday, January 12, 2001, 6:37:27 PM, you wrote:

ME> They won't, because they don't allow relaying. You need to
ME> set up you own mail server. MDaemon (software) or Cobalt Cube
ME> (hardware) or Linux sendmail.

My two cents on this... I work for an ISP, and true, no reputable
ISP will allow relaying. If they do, they will be blackholed in
fairly short order. Normally, the ISP restricts this by only
allowing mail to be sent if it originates from one of their own
IP addresses, (ie the pool used for their dialup services or dsl
connections). Essentially, sendmail checks all mail being
relayed, (not destined for the account of one of the ISP's
customers), against a table of allowed IP addresses. I really
don't think the from email address on the email makes any
difference here, but rather the IP it originates from.

-- 

 -=Elden=-
 http://www.moondog.org



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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Jannik Lindquist]

Hello Manfred and other TBUDL's,

On Saturday, January 13, 2001 at 02:37:27 GMT + Manfred Ell wrote
on "Multiple email everything.":

ME> On 13-01-2001 at 02:43:24GMT +0100 (which was 1:43 where I live)
ME> Olivier Reubens wrote regarding the subject of "Multiple email everything."


ME> Hello Olivier,

>>>Have I missed something?! If I haven't - and this looks like a
>>>solution for you - , you could use the SMTP-server of
>>>webmail-providers like www.myrealbox.com , www.gmx.net , www.yahoo.com
>>>or  www.operamail.com .
Olivier>> I'll check them and see if they allow me to SMTP send using the
Olivier>> from-addresses I need.

ME> They won't, because they don't allow relaying. You need to set up you
ME> own mail server. MDaemon (software) or Cobalt Cube (hardware) or Linux
ME> sendmail.

Am I then a magician? I am currently sending from - at least - four
different "From"-addresses and only *one* SMTP-server. I cannot
guarantee that the SMTP-server I am currently using will send from
*all* "From"-domains - but I can guarantee you that it will send from
*several*. I cannot see why it should care the slightest about which
domain is used as "From"-address - as long as the sending mailbox is
using SMTP-by-login ("Use specific settings" under "Authentication").



Best regards,

Jannik Lindquist

The Bat! Ver. 1.49
Windows 98 4 10   A 

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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Jannik Lindquist]

Hello Olivier and other TBUDL's,

On Saturday, January 13, 2001 at 02:43:24 GMT +0100 Olivier Reubens
wrote on"Multiple email everything.":

OR> On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:51:47 +0100, you wrote:

>>I've finally managed to read my way through the complete thread, but I
>>still don't understand why you can't use the SMTP-server of one of the
>>web-mail providers offering SMTP-by-login and then
>>
>>1) set up TB with only *one* account
OR> I need to be able to distinguish OUTGOING mailboxes. 
OR> When customers write to say [EMAIL PROTECTED] and a reply is sent
OR> by me or my colleagues, it should have [EMAIL PROTECTED] in the
OR> "from" so when customers in turn reply, it nicely arrives in the
OR> support inbox again and so on.
OR> Same for info@... sales@... and several others.

But, nothing I suggested will prevent you from this. Simply set up as
many mailboxes as you like and let each have it own "From" and
"Reply"-name - but let all have *the same* smtp-settings. I promise
you, that this will work, as I am doing it currently!


OR> To make matters worse, I need to be able to do all this from
OR> various places. Connecting to the server of a different ISP
OR> depending on where I'm connecting from.

OR> And I'm changing locations at least 3 times a day. (can you see me
OR> changing account info for 6-7 accounts, 3+ times a day)... sigh. it's
OR> depressing...

Believe me: I've *been* there :-(

>>2) set up TB with just as many account as *you* want (not as many as
>>the amount of your ISP's dictate!) and then use only this *one*
>>SMTP-server for your account.
OR> The ISP's don't dictate it, I'm dictating it onto myself because I
OR> have no viable alternative.

But you have no viable alternative because your ISP's do not *allow*
you any alternative. Who is dictating then?

>>Both of these solutions would allow you to send from *one* SMTP-server
>>no matter where you were connected, and would thus save you the
>>trouble of
OR> I have at current not found an SMTP server which I can access, from
OR> wherever I connected from (i.e. whatever ISP's I'm using). and send
OR> the mails through with any of 20 or so different "FROM" addresses
OR> (which include several different domains, most of which are ".be"
OR> domains).
OR> If you know of any, It'd probably solve most of my problems.

I'm using www.myrealbox.com as you can see, and I'm reasonably
satisfied. I haven't tried sending from *that* many domains, but until
now I haven't had any problems whatsoever. I connect to four different
ISP's during the day in order to cut expenses - but no matter where I
am connected, I always send from the MyRealBox SMTP-server. All you
need to do for each account is

1) get an account with MyRealBox (or whatever you choose)

2) let myrealbox.com be your SMTP-setting in all mailboxes

3) Set "Authentication" to "Perform SMTP-authentication" (with
"Specific settings" in all mailboxes with different sending identities
than your MyRealBox sending identity - and "Use settings of Mail
Retrieval" in your MyRealbox-mailbox (if you want to *have* a
MyRealBox-mailbox - you're free to use only their SMTP-server)).


>>Since all of these services also offer POP/IMAP-retrieval from TB,
>>you can collect all your mail-traffic on one of these accounts, and,
>>thus, enjoy the additional bonus of being able to read all your mail
>>where ever you have access to the web - not just on your TB-PC!
OR> GETTING the mail isn't a problem.  All of the ISP's I have mailboxes
OR> at allow me to get pop access and retrieve the mail in the mailboxes,
OR> but I can't SEND mail through an account which ISP I'm not directly
OR> dialed into.
OR> And doing this from multiple PC's isn't a problem either.

What I meant was this: If you start using one of the suggested
addresses and get your various correspondents used to send to *that*
address, you'll be able to enjoy the benefits of using a *web-account*
for sending and retrieving mail - namely, the benefit of reading your
mail where ever there is a device with a browser. After your messages
are read on the web-interface of your web-account, you just mark them
all "unread" and they are ready for TB to download them when you get
home to your PC.



Best regards,

Jannik Lindquist

The Bat! Ver. 1.49c
Windows 98 4 10   A 

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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[George F Schoelles]

Hello Olivier,

Friday, January 12, 2001, 5:43:24 PM, you wrote:

OR> I have at current not found an SMTP server which I can access, from
OR> wherever I connected from (i.e. whatever ISP's I'm using). and send
OR> the mails through with any of 20 or so different "FROM" addresses
OR> (which include several different domains, most of which are ".be"
OR> domains).
OR> If you know of any, It'd probably solve most of my problems.

Quick and short from what I've read you might try centralinfo.net.
There you can host your domain, website, pop and smtp mail from any
location or web access.  Price is cheap enough at $8.00 US per month
for a long list of services and disk space.  The only draw-back I've
seen is a curious person could see your domain is on a uslive.net
virtual server in the header (see mine). I find this trivial do to the
great customer support
the give.

Good luck

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Manfred Ell]

On 13-01-2001 at 02:43:24GMT +0100 (which was 1:43 where I live)
Olivier Reubens wrote regarding the subject of "Multiple email everything."


Hello Olivier,

>>Have I missed something?! If I haven't - and this looks like a
>>solution for you - , you could use the SMTP-server of
>>webmail-providers like www.myrealbox.com , www.gmx.net , www.yahoo.com
>>or  www.operamail.com .
Olivier> I'll check them and see if they allow me to SMTP send using the
Olivier> from-addresses I need.

They won't, because they don't allow relaying. You need to set up you
own mail server. MDaemon (software) or Cobalt Cube (hardware) or Linux
sendmail.

Regards

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:51:47 +0100, you wrote:

>I've finally managed to read my way through the complete thread, but I
>still don't understand why you can't use the SMTP-server of one of the
>web-mail providers offering SMTP-by-login and then
>
>1) set up TB with only *one* account
I need to be able to distinguish OUTGOING mailboxes. 
When customers write to say [EMAIL PROTECTED] and a reply is sent
by me or my colleagues, it should have [EMAIL PROTECTED] in the
"from" so when customers in turn reply, it nicely arrives in the
support inbox again and so on.
Same for info@... sales@... and several others.

I need this for multiple domains, which are (unfortunately) hosted at
different ISP's.  This is a cost issue.  I'm currently using a
somewhat awkward setup of different ISP's and stuff, but I'm paying
less than a third of what the cheapest single ISP could offer. (if
they COULD offer each of the items I need in the first place).  In US
currency, the total budget I'm paying NOW for all our internet
requirements is a 4 figure sum aching to a 5 figure one each year.
Paying 3 times as much is TOO much.

To make matters worse, I need to be able to do all this from various
places. Connecting to the server of a different ISP depending on where
I'm connecting from.

And I'm changing locations at least 3 times a day. (can you see me
changing account info for 6-7 accounts, 3+ times a day)... sigh. it's
depressing...

>2) set up TB with just as many account as *you* want (not as many as
>the amount of your ISP's dictate!) and then use only this *one*
>SMTP-server for your account.
The ISP's don't dictate it, I'm dictating it onto myself because I
have no viable alternative.  If I really really could, I'd have an
in-house server (or servers) taking care of everything we need, but
alas, that WOULDd cost a hefty 5 figure sum.

>Both of these solutions would allow you to send from *one* SMTP-server
>no matter where you were connected, and would thus save you the
>trouble of
I have at current not found an SMTP server which I can access, from
wherever I connected from (i.e. whatever ISP's I'm using). and send
the mails through with any of 20 or so different "FROM" addresses
(which include several different domains, most of which are ".be"
domains).
If you know of any, It'd probably solve most of my problems.

>1) Changing smtp-servers when changing connection
I'm currently _STILL_ using Forte Agent because that one allows me to
automatically set the SMTP servers depending on what account I used to
make the connection with.  The bad news with Forte is that I need to
launch an instance for each account. That alone fills up the entire
taskbar, takes a lot of switching windows, making it less than optimal
to work, and a real hassle if I need to move/copy a mail to another
account.

>2) Setting up filters, columns etc. for more than *one* account!
I can set the filters to distribute incoming mail into separate
inboxes (the way I'd like it anyway) and automatically set the "from"
address.  However, at current with TheBat!  I would need to manually
change the "Account" for each mail I'm sending.  
I need "instant" send (so can't save up, call the provider and send
mail in batch).  And I'm doing several handfulls of mails a day (all
accounts mixed).

>Have I missed something?! If I haven't - and this looks like a
>solution for you - , you could use the SMTP-server of
>webmail-providers like www.myrealbox.com , www.gmx.net , www.yahoo.com
>or  www.operamail.com .
I'll check them and see if they allow me to SMTP send using the
from-addresses I need.

>Since all of these services also offer POP/IMAP-retrieval from TB, you
>can collect all your mail-traffic on one of these accounts, and, thus,
>enjoy the additional bonus of being able to read all your mail where
>ever you have access to the web - not just on your TB-PC!
GETTING the mail isn't a problem.  All of the ISP's I have mailboxes
at allow me to get pop access and retrieve the mail in the mailboxes,
but I can't SEND mail through an account which ISP I'm not directly
dialed into.
And doing this from multiple PC's isn't a problem either.

Olivier Reubens.
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Jannik Lindquist]

Hello Olivier and other TBUDL's,

On Friday, January 05, 2001 at 00:03:12 GMT +0100 Olivier Reubens wrote on "Multiple 
email everything.":

OR> 1) If I have received an e-mail into one of the mailboxes of an
OR> account which ISP I'm not connected to at the moment, I CAN
OR> retrieve the mail, but when replying it'll fail (relaying denied).
OR> I can solve this from the mail-edit window via Options, Active
OR> account, but I need to change it for each message.  Is there a way
OR> to "lock" which account to use for sending messages.  I don't mind
OR> the originating address to mismatch the "from" address which they
OR> will reply to.  Most aren't smart enough to figure out how to
OR> obtain the real originating address anyway :-)

I've finally managed to read my way through the complete thread, but I
still don't understand why you can't use the SMTP-server of one of the
web-mail providers offering SMTP-by-login and then

1) set up TB with only *one* account

or

2) set up TB with just as many account as *you* want (not as many as
the amount of your ISP's dictate!) and then use only this *one*
SMTP-server for your account.

Both of these solutions would allow you to send from *one* SMTP-server
no matter where you were connected, and would thus save you the
trouble of

1) Changing smtp-servers when changing connection

2) Setting up filters, columns etc. for more than *one* account!


Have I missed something?! If I haven't - and this looks like a
solution for you - , you could use the SMTP-server of
webmail-providers like www.myrealbox.com , www.gmx.net , www.yahoo.com
or  www.operamail.com .

Since all of these services also offer POP/IMAP-retrieval from TB, you
can collect all your mail-traffic on one of these accounts, and, thus,
enjoy the additional bonus of being able to read all your mail where
ever you have access to the web - not just on your TB-PC!


Best regards,

Jannik

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris)]

Hello!


Monday, January 08, 2001, 7:21:48 AM, Thomas Fernandez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

TF> What mail server software are you using

aernet.ru is my private domain. The mail subsystem on it is hosted by a
Communigate Pro POP3/SMTP/IMAP4/List server
(http://www.stalker.com/CGatePro.html) running on Sun machine under Sun
Solaris OS. The machine itself is located physically at my ISP (Zenon
N.S.P., http://www.zenon.net/) datacenter.

I'm also have some number of mailboxes on other servers (the total
number of accounts is 14 - 12 real, 2 virtual). My secondary most used
e-mail account which belongs to my work is served by a FreeBSD 4.2
machine with Sendmail 8.9.3 and QPOP 3.0.2 installed.

TF> and how does it interface with TB:

Notning new: at home I'm using an ordinary DUN service while at work I'm
using the corporate LAN. I hope that I'll get the 256 K leased line to
my flat that year so I could easily forget the terms like 56K and v.90
:-).


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Yours sincerely,

Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) http://www.andris.msk.ru/

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Andrey,

On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 06:03:17 +0300GMT (08/01/2001, 11:03 +0800GMT),
Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) wrote:

AGSAA>>> X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f)
TF>> [...]
AGSAA>>> If you're on *NIX (as me now),

TF>> Wow. wine?

AGSAA> Not now ;-). The sentence you've quoted was related to the mail server
AGSAA> software, not MUA.

Ach so. ;-)

What mail server software are you using, and how does it interface
with TB: you can't be running two OS's at the same time, can you? And
to create messages in TB, then reboot with anotehr OS to send the
message out, seems tedious.

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Re: OT, STOPPED (Was: Re: Multiple email everything.)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Andrey,

On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 06:00:52 +0300GMT (08/01/2001, 11:00 +0800GMT),
Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) wrote:

AGSAA> Note: since we're going into the strict offtopic here I decided that all
AGSAA> replies to this message regarding non-TB! related stuff will be made
AGSAA> off-list to my address.

I find this thread interesting and would prefer if you continued this
on TBOT ([EMAIL PROTECTED] for those who are not subscriubed
to the TB User's Off-Topic List yet), rather than PM. ;-)

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Thomas.  

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Re: OT, STOPPED (Was: Re: Multiple email everything.)

[Douglas Hinds]

Hello Karin & others on TBUDL following this thread,

Sunday, January 07, 2001,  you stated regarding :

>> replies to this message regarding non-TB! related stuff will be made
>> off-list to my address.

KS> Erm, you can't ;-)

KS> No matter how you set the reply-to, the list software will
KS> override your settings.

Using Cntrl+F4 is what he means, I assume.

DH

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Re: OT, STOPPED (Was: Re: Multiple email everything.)

[Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris)]

Hello!


Monday, January 08, 2001, 6:18:11 AM, Karin Spaink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Note: since we're going into the strict offtopic here I decided that all
>> replies to this message regarding non-TB! related stuff will be made
>> off-list to my address.

KS> Erm, you can't ;-)

KS> No matter how you set the reply-to, the list software will
KS> override your settings.

:-) I know. This was an attempt to stop overflooding the TBUDL with
unrelated postings like "what is RBL and how do I stop a guy named
mailer-daemon from reading and returning my postings" >


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Re: OT, STOPPED (Was: Re: Multiple email everything.)

[Karin Spaink]

On 08-01-2001 at 04:00, Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) kindly wrote:

> Note: since we're going into the strict offtopic here I decided that all
> replies to this message regarding non-TB! related stuff will be made
> off-list to my address.

Erm, you can't ;-)

No matter how you set the reply-to, the list software will
override your settings.


- K -

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris)]

Hello!


Sunday, January 07, 2001, 8:29:02 PM, Thomas Fernandez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

AGSAA>> X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f)
TF> [...]
AGSAA>> If you're on *NIX (as me now),

TF> Wow. wine?

Not now ;-). The sentence you've quoted was related to the mail server
software, not MUA.


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OT, STOPPED (Was: Re: Multiple email everything.)

[Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris)]

Hello!


Sunday, January 07, 2001, 9:03:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

bdou> I use sendmail under Linux (OT but I'll carry on) this sends mail
bdou> straight away wihtout using a smtp server.

:-) You may wonder a bit but the sendmail program is a quite perfect
example of the SMTP server. Qmail, Exim and Postfix also falls to this
category.

>> 2. This delivery scheme is unusual at the user's end and isn't
>> appreciated by the ISPs. Remember that user != server :-)

bdou> Who cares about what your ISP thinks. It's not that unusual and
bdou> many people run their own smtp server. I run one at work to ave
bdou> having to use the demon one.

My ISP (hoping that yours too) is a right ISP :-). It doesn't restrict
me on what SMTP/POP3/whatever server I can connect to - I'm speaking
about the ability to connect to the servers that are outside of my ISP's
IP address block. My actions is only and only my actions so I'm fully
responsible for them.

>> 4. We're living in the world of spam. Let the servers do their work
>> perfectly.

bdou> But they don't do their work perfectly

Well, if they are badly administrated :-)

bdou> and it is simple for a spammer to set up their own smtp server.

Agreed, but please don't forget the fact that sooner or later this
server will be filtered by the most ISPs and corporate clients. Have you
heard about MAPS RBL/RSS/etc., ORBS, DRBL?

bdou> Disallowing relaying is a poor system. As is blackholeing.

I'll tend to completely disagree.

Note: since we're going into the strict offtopic here I decided that all
replies to this message regarding non-TB! related stuff will be made
off-list to my address.


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Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) http://www.andris.msk.ru/

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[bat]

> Friday, January 05, 2001, 10:06:24 PM, Olivier Reubens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> OR> Why does no e-mail client have an option to deliver sent mail
> OR> directly to the addressed person's SMTP server. Am I missing an
> OR> obvious "NO" here, or have I just thought up a totally new type of
> OR> internet application (Maybe I should file a patent for it right away
> OR> )
>

I use sendmail under Linux (OT but I'll carry on) this sends mail straight 
away wihtout using a smtp server. It integrates with my mail client (KMail) 
so Kmail effectivly has a smtp server built into it.


> No patents here . And the answers to your question is quite
> easy:
> 1. There are MUAs that allow user to deliver e-mail messages directly to
> the SMTP server of some addressee.

> 2. This delivery scheme is unusual at the user's end and isn't
> appreciated by the ISPs. Remember that user != server :-)

Who cares about what your ISP thinks. It's  not that unusual and many people 
run their own smtp server. I run one at work to ave having to use the demon 
one.

> 4. We're living in the world of spam. Let the servers do their work
> perfectly.

But they don't do their work perfectly and it is simple for a spammer to set 
up their own smtp server. Disallowing relaying is a poor system. As is 
blackholeing.

-- 
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Andrey,

On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 07:39:36 +0300 GMT (07/01/2001, 12:39 +0800 GMT),
Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) wrote:

[...]
TF>>  What is RCPT TO: ? The recipients?

AGSAA> It's the command sent to an (E)SMTP server by the connection originator
AGSAA> containing the so-called "envelope" address of the recipient. For
AGSAA> further information just consult an appropriate (E)SMTP-related RFCs
AGSAA> found on the 'net.

Thanks. You've answered all my questions. :-)


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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Andrey,

On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 06:57:01 +0300 GMT (07/01/2001, 11:57 +0800 GMT),
Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) wrote:

AGSAA> X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f)
[...]
AGSAA> If you're on *NIX (as me now),

Wow. wine?

-- 

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Thomas.

>From a Japanese information booklet about using a hotel air conditioner:
Cooles and Heates:
If you want just condition of warm in your room, please control yourself. 

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DEAD HORSE (was Re: Multiple email everything.)

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Andrey,

On 07 January 2001 at 07:39:36 +0300 (which was 04:39 where I
live) Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) wrote and made these points:

AGSAA>  just consult an appropriate (E)SMTP-related RFCs found
AGSAA> on the 'net.

We've  gone  Wyyy  off  topic  (The  Bat)  here  and  people are
unsubscribing  in  their  droves!  Although this has been a riveting
discussion from my POV, I have to call a DEAD HORSE. Please take any
further discussion on this subject Off-List.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA
 
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs   ]

TB! v1.49 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured
Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness

iQA/AwUBOlhPFDnkJKuSnc2gEQKxGgCgg52staiMHD5VcNW5nSDyhaYSyBYAn1Gt
irRRtAAl0xDSitlf003CnvFZ
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris)]

Hello!


Friday, January 05, 2001, 9:19:54 AM, Thomas Fernandez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

(A notice to the list members and moderator: the next message could be
easily treated as offtopic (Marck, your comments please :-). Anyone
interested in additional technical details should contact me off-list).

TF>>> It is not an "open" line if you are connected to it.

AGSAA>> Hmm... Didn't catch the point, could you please explain? :-)

TF> The same as you say below, using the more correct term "third party
TF> relay". What I mean is, it does not mean it's open to third parties if
TF> you can use it while being logged in through the same ISP.

OK here :-)

TF>>> Relaying would be if I used an SMTP server in Germany for an account
TF>>> in Thailand while having dialled in through an ISP in Taiwan. If I use
TF>>> the SMTP server of the ISP I dial in through, it is not relaying,
TF>>> never mind the From address.

AGSAA>> Sorry, but you're wrong here.

TF> I meant "third-party relaying". The SMTP server error "sorry, we don't
TF> relay", which I have seen at times, also refers to third-party
TF> relaying, wouldn't it?

In general, yes. However there are some cases (badly administered
servers etc.) when you'll see this reply from the server you're
absolutely authorized to use :-).

AGSAA>> Generally, all SMTP servers are "relays". But the actual server
AGSAA>> behaviour can significantly vary. You can use ORBS, RBL, DRBL, RSS
AGSAA>> whatever databases to prevent spammers from sending your their crap, you
AGSAA>> of course should use some kind of ACL (access.db on sendmail) etc.

TF> GMX has, for example, POP before SMTP. So, you POP nad then you can
TF> use their SMTP server, never mind through which ISP you are logged in.

Correct. But the more convenient scheme is to install some kind of SMTP
authorization on the server. The added benefits are TLS support etc.

The next two ways to prevent unauthorized third-party relaying are:
- separate user-side SMTP server and the core relays (MXers). Good for
the most situations and sites.
- use newly introduced RFC 2476 to completely separate traffic from the
users and servers. The summary of this RFC is: users aren't allowed to
use SMTP servers completely, they submit their mails via a special port
on the relay. Look for an original RFC text on any server
(http://www.rfc-editor.org/ would be great) and also check out this URL:
http://sendmail.net/?feed=rfc2476. I consider this to be a future in the
way users will send their mails.

AGSAA>> Here is the example. Imagine that one of my SMTP servers acts as a relay
AGSAA>> for the following domains:
TF> [...]
AGSAA>> EHLO hostname.client.net.ru
AGSAA>> MAIL FROM:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
AGSAA>> RCPT TO:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

TF> Is there a way we can see which commands TB actually sends to the
TF> server?

Yes, by installing a so-called SMTP proxy with logging enabled. The
perfect examples known to me are the SMTPepd
(http://www.kanargh.force9.co.uk/smteepd/smteepd.exe) and The
Sleepwalker SMTP Proxy (http://www.thesleepwalker.com/software/).

TF>  What is RCPT TO: ? The recipients?

It's the command sent to an (E)SMTP server by the connection originator
containing the so-called "envelope" address of the recipient. For
further information just consult an appropriate (E)SMTP-related RFCs
found on the 'net.


-- 

Yours sincerely,

Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) http://www.andris.msk.ru/

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris)]

Hello!


Friday, January 05, 2001, 10:20:18 PM, Manfred Ell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

GFS>>> I have also seen smtp servers that can be installed in 98/NT/2K. Have
GFS>>> yet to try one But they must work.

Thomas>> Isn't Hamster one of those?

ME> Yes, SMTP, POP3 and NNTP server.
ME> I'm using this myself. Recommended.

If you're on *NIX (as me now), use whatever you like :-) ; if you're on
Windows, I strongly suggest MDaemon (http://www.mdaemon.com/). Personal
experience: more than 2.5 years without serious outages, 4 domains, up
to 70 users per domain, strong load.


-- 

Yours sincerely,

Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) http://www.andris.msk.ru/

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris)]

Hello!


Friday, January 05, 2001, 11:31:46 PM, Abigail Marshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

OR>> Actually..   Why does no e-mail client have an option to deliver
OR>> sent mail directly to the addressed person's SMTP server.  Am I
OR>> missing an obvious "NO" here, or have I just thought up a totally new
OR>> type of internet application (Maybe I should file a patent for it
OR>> right away )

AM> You don't know what your addressed person's SMTP server is - there is
AM> no way to know except by looking at RFC headers of mail they have sent
^^
AM> you,

Partially correct. The mail routing is controlled by the MX records in
the DNS, by internal tables on some relays and so on.

AM> and then if they are using multiple ISP's like you, it would mean
AM> nothing.

Agreed. BTW the same mailbox owner could use different SMTP servers for
sending and receiving mail (the word "receiving" has nothing to do with
POP3 and/or IMAP4 - a client-side protocols - here; it stands for an
incoming mails going to this mailbox via SMTP).

AM> Not all servers with POP accounts have SMTP; web-based email such as
AM> yahoo or hotmail doesn't provide an SMTP that is associated with the
AM> domain name;

One remark: all of these online services are using SMTP internally.

AM>  and the SMTP doesn't always match the domain name.


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Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) http://www.andris.msk.ru/

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris)]

Hello!


Friday, January 05, 2001, 10:06:24 PM, Olivier Reubens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

OR> Why does no e-mail client have an option to deliver sent mail
OR> directly to the addressed person's SMTP server. Am I missing an
OR> obvious "NO" here, or have I just thought up a totally new type of
OR> internet application (Maybe I should file a patent for it right away
OR> )

No patents here . And the answers to your question is quite
easy:
1. There are MUAs that allow user to deliver e-mail messages directly to
the SMTP server of some addressee.
2. This delivery scheme is unusual at the user's end and isn't
appreciated by the ISPs. Remember that user != server :-)
3. Many SMTP servers are using DUL (http://maps.vix.com/dul/) to prevent
direct connections from the non-local dial-up users (if any).
4. We're living in the world of spam. Let the servers do their work
perfectly.


-- 

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Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) http://www.andris.msk.ru/

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Manfred Ell]

On 06-01-2001 at 16:09:24GMT +0800 (which was 8:09 where I live)
Thomas Fernandez wrote regarding the subject of "Multiple email everything."


Hello Thomas,

Thomas> I think Hamster does what you need. I don't have the URL, but somebody
Thomas> else in this list will.

http://home.knuut.de/tgl/own/hamtools.htm

Regards

-- 
Manfred
___
TheBat 1.49 (FE1905D5), Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1


"Bother," said Pooh as the Alien burst out of his chest.

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Olivier,

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 22:29:07 +0100 GMT (06/01/2001, 05:29 +0800 GMT),
Olivier Reubens wrote:

OR> OK..  If that can't be done..  How can installing my own SMTP server
OR> work 

I think Hamster does what you need. I don't have the URL, but somebody
else in this list will.

OR> According to that other mail, If I would install a SMTP server on my
OR> own PC, I can have that one send the messages to the target SMTP
OR> server,

.. to the target POP server. You don't touch the recipient's SMTP
server.

OR>  but when I'd install a mailer, It wouldn't be ?

No, a mailer delivers mail to an SMTP server. Differnt functions.

OR> Sorry but that makes no sense. What's preventing an e-mail client
OR> from having the same send-engine as a SMTP server on the same
OR> computer would do.

Bloat.

OR> I really don't see why that wouldn't work.

It would. I wouldn't want it, because it is faster and easier for me
to just deliver to my ISP's SMTP server and let it do the rest while
I'm offline. You see, if you need to connect to the recipient's POP
server, that probably on another continent, and depending on your
bandwidth (average 1.5k/s over here) that takes expensive on-line
time. If the POP server is down or unreachable for some reason, you
have to try again later - something I don't worry about when using my
ISP's SMTP server.

That's about all I know about it. ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

In a Rhodes tailor shop: Order your summers suit. Because is
big rush we will execute customers in strict rotation. 

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49 Beta/1
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



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Re[4]: Multiple email everything.

[Abigail Marshall]

--
On Friday, January 05, 2001, 1:29:07 PM, Olivier Reubens wrote:


OR> OK..  If that can't be done..  How can installing my own SMTP server
OR> work 
OR> According to that other mail, If I would install a SMTP server on my
OR> own PC, I can have that one send the messages to the target SMTP
OR> server, but when I'd install a mailer, It wouldn't be ?  Sorry but
OR> that makes no sense.  What's preventing an e-mail client from having
OR> the same send-engine as a SMTP server on the same computer would do.
OR> I really don't see why that wouldn't work.  Then again, I have no idea
OR> how mail arrives at a destination mailbox either, so I really can't
OR> tell.

I think the problem is that, as you say, you have no idea as to how
mail arrives at the mailbox - and you are confused about the
difference between SMTP and POP, and other server programs.

I'm no expert, so I might be wrong on some details, but here's how it
works, as clearly as I can explain.

The short answer is that if you have your own SMTP, you can configure
the options the way you want it. SMTP's on other servers will be
configured in different ways, but all will be configured to protect
against abuse by intruders or spammers.

SMTP is a program on a server that sends or relays mail to other
servers.  In the end, it will send mail to a POP box somewhere - the
POP box is the place where the user gets the mail from.

Servers also have software designed for filtering and processing mail.
This software is what tells SMTP what to do with the mail when it gets
it. Some common programs for this are called Sendmail, Procmail, Qmail.

If you had your own SMTP server, you would use the mail software to
tell it to recognize and relay all mail coming from you and your
domains, and reject everything else. So, you will have configured your
personal SMTP to allow relaying, but only the relaying that helps you.
Since your personal SMTP would not have a dedicated connection, you
would probably not have to worry about other spam protections.

A dialup ISP company will probably configure their SMTP server to only
accept mail that has originated on its network - that is, something
coming in via the dialup.

A webhosting company without dialup services will generally configure
their SMTP to accept other mail, but use a verification routine such
as POP-before-send coupled with spam filters such as the ORBS database
to protect their server.

-Abigail



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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Austin Dennis]

Hi Olivier

I'm not sure if this will work, but it seems to be working fine for me. Go
to mailandnews.com and set up an account with them (it's free). Now go into
TB and set up your SMTP server to mailandnews.com. Then select
"Authentication", tick "Perform SMTP Authentication" and "Use specific
settings". Enter your userid and password for mailandnews.com, and you
should be able to send emails (no matter where you are logged in from). I
don't know if this is "supposed" to work, but it does. Perhaps they've left
it open by mistake, or perhaps it's permissible since you have an account
there. I suspect lots of the other free web based providers are the same. It
may not be super quick (certainly not as quick as using your ISP's SMTP
server), but it may resolve the problem.

Good luck
Austin


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Re: Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:31:46 -0800, you wrote:

>You don't know what your addressed person's SMTP server is - there is
>no way to know except by looking at RFC headers of mail they have sent
>you, and then if they are using multiple ISP's like you, it would mean
>nothing.
>
>Not all servers with POP accounts have SMTP; web-based email such as
>yahoo or hotmail doesn't provide an SMTP that is associated with the
>domain name; and the SMTP doesn't always match the domain name.
>
>Finally, if outsiders could access the sender's SMTP, that would be
>spammer's heaven -- imagine being able to use the AOL SMTP servers to
>send your spam to everyone on AOL - you not only would have the
>benefit of their servers, but you would defeat whatever spam
>blocking routines were build into their mail handling software.

OK..  If that can't be done..  How can installing my own SMTP server
work 
According to that other mail, If I would install a SMTP server on my
own PC, I can have that one send the messages to the target SMTP
server, but when I'd install a mailer, It wouldn't be ?  Sorry but
that makes no sense.  What's preventing an e-mail client from having
the same send-engine as a SMTP server on the same computer would do.
I really don't see why that wouldn't work.  Then again, I have no idea
how mail arrives at a destination mailbox either, so I really can't
tell.  

>You might just want to configure your mail options to queue outgoing
>mail in the outbox rather than sending it right away.  If there is one
>place you are certain to be every day, then when you arrive there the
>first thing to to when you arrive at that location would be to log on
>and send all the messages in the outbox.
Can't do, users insist on faster than immediate response.  Sending
direct is an absolute must.

>Of course, this would result in delayed reply to some email, but you
>could bypass the routine if an email was particularly important to
>respond to urgently.
they all are .

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

>Well, perhaps you can consider using Host Colocation Service, means
>you put your own Server on ISP site ?
We have one server running at a provider (the one that has the site
and database).

>OR> 1)  Access  via  ADSL or Cable at home. This is where I do most of
>OR> the management from so the speed needs to be high, I often need to
>OR> make several MB's worth of changes to the dbase mentionned in 3).
>
>You can choose any connection as you want to connect to your own
>server (some ISP on my country allow this).
That's the prob, the ISP we host our server at and does it at a very
nice price only has modem dial-in. no cable or DSL, so it's too slow
to be usefull, I'll need another ISP to get faster connection so I can
access my own server over the internet at a faster speed.

>OR> 2) Access via GSM at an affordable price/min.
>Install WAP Web interface engine :-)
Not viable for what we need to do.  We need the GSM to provide regular
dial-up access.

>OR> 3)  ISDN  access  from the office with "notification" when mail is
>OR> there  (basically  the provider calling the office to drop of mail
>OR> packets).  it's a little more complex than this but it is the core
>OR> of it.
>
>See above
"it is a little more complex than that".  I really don't want to go
into all the details about it, it has nothing to do with The Bat!
anyway :-)  What we REALLY need is permamnent connection in the
office, but it's not affordable at the time, and since the amount of
traffic isn't very high, this suits us fine for the moment.

>OR> 4)  Site  hosting with semi-large dbase (around 3Gb dbase getting)
>OR> with  remote management of the DB (which we currently take care of
>OR> via 5) because no adequate alternate was available).
>
>Just add so many HDD as you want, upgrade the RAM or processor if
>needed :-)
Still need to put it online somewhere, where providers ask money for,
server hosting is expensive, we got a special deal at this particular
provider, but can't use him for dialin since he only has regular modem
access.

>OR> 5)  Access  to  Windows  NT  Terminal  server via the internet for
>OR> around  25 on-the-road users, although rarely more than one or two
>OR> at any one time.
>Use W2K Advance Server or run Citrix Winframe on NT4 :-)
It's NT4 TSE now, W2K would do also, but it was installed like this
before W2K became available and I see no reason to pay for a W2K
upgrade when it offers nothing we can't already do now.

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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Abigail Marshall]

--
On Friday, January 05, 2001, 11:06:24 AM, Olivier Reubens wrote:

>>There are servers you can install on your PC. Of course, they will be
>>only active when you are currently connected, but I tried one once,
>>and it sent the messages directly to the recipient's POP server.
OR> Actually..   Why does no e-mail client have an option to deliver
OR> sent mail directly to the addressed person's SMTP server.  Am I
OR> missing an obvious "NO" here, or have I just thought up a totally new
OR> type of internet application (Maybe I should file a patent for it
OR> right away )

You don't know what your addressed person's SMTP server is - there is
no way to know except by looking at RFC headers of mail they have sent
you, and then if they are using multiple ISP's like you, it would mean
nothing.

Not all servers with POP accounts have SMTP; web-based email such as
yahoo or hotmail doesn't provide an SMTP that is associated with the
domain name; and the SMTP doesn't always match the domain name.

Finally, if outsiders could access the sender's SMTP, that would be
spammer's heaven -- imagine being able to use the AOL SMTP servers to
send your spam to everyone on AOL - you not only would have the
benefit of their servers, but you would defeat whatever spam
blocking routines were build into their mail handling software.

OR> The ISP I use at home doesn't provide an ISDN service like the one we
OR> have in the office.  That one in turn doesn't provide access through
OR> ADSL.  The "on the road" is a special case again, since dialing either
OR> provider would be costly, and it's cheaper per minute to use the
OR> internet provided by the company I get my GSM line from...

You might just want to configure your mail options to queue outgoing
mail in the outbox rather than sending it right away.  If there is one
place you are certain to be every day, then when you arrive there the
first thing to to when you arrive at that location would be to log on
and send all the messages in the outbox.

Of course, this would result in delayed reply to some email, but you
could bypass the routine if an email was particularly important to
respond to urgently.

The other thing to do - but it's obviously not very convenient, is to
simply configure TB to send to one SMTP, but change the SMTP
configuration as needed when you move around during the day.  This is
obviously not convenient, but I know it can be done, because I used to
do that during a time when I did not have a reliable ISP.

-Abigail

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Abigail Marshall,

On  Fri,  5  Jan 2001 at 11:43:05 GMT -0800(which was 1/6/2001 2:43 AM
where you think I live) you told to Andrey G. Sergeev on the list :

AGSAA>> Sorry, but you're wrong here.

AGSAA>> Generally,  all  SMTP  servers  are  "relays".  But the actual
AGSAA>> server  behaviour  can  significantly  vary. You can use ORBS,
AGSAA>> RBL,  DRBL,  RSS  whatever  databases to prevent spammers from
AGSAA>> sending your their crap, you of course should use some kind of
AGSAA>> ACL (access.db on sendmail) etc. It depends, as we say here in
AGSAA>> Russia :-).

AGSAA>> So  we're  speaking  about so-called "third party relaying" in
AGSAA>> this  thread.  This relaying occurs when someone connects to a
AGSAA>> SMTP  server  which  is  serving  some  number of domains (the
AGSAA>> actual number doesn't matter here - it can be 1, 2...) and use
AGSAA>> the  the domain _names_ not known as "local" by this server as
AGSAA>> an argument in the MAIL FROM: _and_ RCPT TO: commands.

Andrey,  perhaps  you  forgot  that for most ISP around the world only
protect base on IP addresse on his MTA RCPt-Host. As far as the sender
using trusted IP, it will allow to relay.

AM> Andrey,  this  would  be  the  case  if  I  set the SMTP to my own
AM> company's  server  (dyslexia.com),  but set the mail from/reply-to
AM> for  something  else, AND if I used an authentication scheme other
AM> than POP-before-send. But in those cases I am still accessing from
AM> an  unrelated dialup - my company's server does not provide dialup
AM> access.

This is the case for company or Mail Provider who does not have Dial
Up Services.

I do as yours for my Server, I can Relay to my SMTPServer even connect
using  any  other  ISP.  I am using combination of POP Before SMTP and
SMTPAuth and Domain Name Authentication.

AM> The difference with the dialup is that - at least in the US - most
AM> MAJOR  service providers use an authentication routine that allows
AM> anyone  who  has dialed up via their lines to use the SMTP without
AM> limitation,  assuming they have passed the authentication required
AM> at log in.

Correct.

AM> I  have  found  that  the companies offering free or very low cost
AM> access  do not work that way, so perhaps in other countries it may
AM> be  a  problem. Obviously, I don't know what the procedures are in
AM> Belgium or Russia.

IMHO, it just the same, at least in my country (Indonesia).

--
Best regards,

- Syafril -
..Opinion expressed are only mine
*
Name  : Syafril Hermansyah  |Company : Duta Integrasi Pratama
Mailto: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> |Voice   : (62) (21) 385-1600
FAXto : (62)(21)351-9241 key:000FAX |URL : 
*
Created : Saturday, January 06, 2001, 2:46:44 AM GMT +0700

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Olivier Reubens,

On  Fri,  05 Jan 2001 at 20:16:55 GMT +0100(which was 1/6/2001 2:16 AM
where you think I live) you told to the list :

>>What are your requirements that no single ISP can satisfy?

Well, perhaps you can consider using Host Colocation Service, means
you put your own Server on ISP site ?

OR> 1)  Access  via  ADSL or Cable at home. This is where I do most of
OR> the management from so the speed needs to be high, I often need to
OR> make several MB's worth of changes to the dbase mentionned in 3).

You can choose any connection as you want to connect to your own
server (some ISP on my country allow this).

OR> 2) Access via GSM at an affordable price/min.

Install WAP Web interface engine :-)

OR> 3)  ISDN  access  from the office with "notification" when mail is
OR> there  (basically  the provider calling the office to drop of mail
OR> packets).  it's a little more complex than this but it is the core
OR> of it.

See above

OR> 4)  Site  hosting with semi-large dbase (around 3Gb dbase getting)
OR> with  remote management of the DB (which we currently take care of
OR> via 5) because no adequate alternate was available).

Just add so many HDD as you want, upgrade the RAM or processor if
needed :-)

OR> 5)  Access  to  Windows  NT  Terminal  server via the internet for
OR> around  25 on-the-road users, although rarely more than one or two
OR> at any one time.

Use W2K Advance Server or run Citrix Winframe on NT4 :-)

--
Best regards,

- Syafril -
..Opinion expressed are only mine
*
Name  : Syafril Hermansyah  |Company : Duta Integrasi Pratama
Mailto: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> |Voice   : (62) (21) 385-1600
FAXto : (62)(21)351-9241 key:000FAX |URL : 
*
Created : Saturday, January 06, 2001, 2:56:35 AM GMT +0700

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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Abigail Marshall]

--
On Thursday, January 04, 2001, 8:19:30 PM, Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) wrote:

OR>>> Well a ruling of the ISPA (www.ispa.be) (belgium organisation
OR>>> regulating ISP's in belgium) stipulates that no SMTP server should
OR>>> have an "open" line.

TF>> It is not an "open" line if you are connected to it.

AGSAA> Hmm... Didn't catch the point, could you please explain? :-)

Well, I'm in the US, so it may be different, but for me, here's how it
works.

I sign up with an ISP, in my case it currently is Flashmail.  I have a
dialup connection.  My dialup to Flashmail requires a user name and
password to access, but of course this is automatically entered by my
Windows dialup software every time I connect.

I do not have any other way to connect to the internet except for the
dialup I subscribe to. (Actually I do have some alternate connections
for backup use, but I don't use their SMTP - if for some reason the
Flashmail network server is down, I will use the SMTP on my own
server, which has POP-before-send authentication.)

Flashmail provides me with a POP box that I NEVER use.  That is, there is no
such thing as an abigail-username@flashmail address listed anywhere. I
do receive mail THROUGH their POP, but all of it is forwarded/rerouted
from the aliases associated with different domains.  Since I manage
several websites, there are different aliases associated with
different domains ([EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], etc.) My reply-to/from always reflects the
domain I am replying from.

As long as I have used the Flashmail dialup to connect to the
internet, the mail goes through the Flashmail SMTP with NO problem no
matter WHAT the reply-to/from headers say.  I suppose it is possible
that I could run into a problem if I used a domain that was
specifically BANNED by the ISP because it was on an ORBS database,
etc., but this isn't a problem with using our own proprietary domain
names, and it has not been a problem with configuring the
reply-to/from for a hotmail or other web-based system, either. (My
kids have hotmail accounts)

AGSAA> Sorry, but you're wrong here.

AGSAA> Generally, all SMTP servers are "relays". But the actual server
AGSAA> behaviour can significantly vary. You can use ORBS, RBL, DRBL, RSS
AGSAA> whatever databases to prevent spammers from sending your their crap, you
AGSAA> of course should use some kind of ACL (access.db on sendmail) etc. It
AGSAA> depends, as we say here in Russia :-).

AGSAA> So we're speaking about so-called "third party relaying" in this thread.
AGSAA> This relaying occurs when someone connects to a SMTP server which is
AGSAA> serving some number of domains (the actual number doesn't matter here -
AGSAA> it can be 1, 2...) and use the the domain _names_ not known as "local"
AGSAA> by this server as an argument in the MAIL FROM: _and_ RCPT TO: commands.

Andrey, this would be the case if I set the SMTP to my own company's
server (dyslexia.com), but set the mail from/reply-to for something
else, AND if I used an authentication scheme other than
POP-before-send. But in those cases I am still accessing from an
unrelated dialup - my company's server does not provide dialup access.

The difference with the dialup is that - at least in the US - most
MAJOR service providers use an authentication routine that allows
anyone who has dialed up via their lines to use the SMTP without
limitation, assuming they have passed the authentication required at
log in.

I have found that the companies offering free or very low cost access
do not work that way, so perhaps in other countries it may be a
problem.  Obviously, I don't know what the procedures are in Belgium
or Russia.



-Abigail



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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Manfred Ell]

On 05-01-2001 at 23:19:00GMT +0800 (which was 15:19 where I live)
Thomas Fernandez wrote regarding the subject of "Multiple email everything."


Hello Thomas,

GFS>> I have also seen smtp servers that can be installed in 98/NT/2K. Have
GFS>> yet to try one But they must work.

Thomas> Isn't Hamster one of those?

Yes, SMTP, POP3 and NNTP server.
I'm using this myself. Recommended.

Regards

-- 
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 02:44:11 +0800, you wrote:

>What are your requirements that no single ISP can satisfy?

1) Access via ADSL or Cable at home.  This is where I do most of the
management from so the speed needs to be high, I often need to make
several MB's worth of changes to the dbase mentionned in 3).
2) Access via GSM at an affordable price/min.
3) ISDN access from the office with "notification" when mail is there
(basically the provider calling the office to drop of mail packets).
it's a little more complex than this but it is the core of it.
4) Site hosting with semi-large dbase (around 3Gb dbase getting) with
remote management of the DB (which we currently take care of via 5)
because no adequate alternate was available).
5) Access to Windows NT Terminal server via the internet for around 25
on-the-road users, although rarely more than one or two at any one
time.

Olivier Reubens.
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 02:41:46 +0800, you wrote:

>There are servers you can install on your PC. Of course, they will be
>only active when you are currently connected, but I tried one once,
>and it sent the messages directly to the recipient's POP server.
Actually..   Why does no e-mail client have an option to deliver
sent mail directly to the addressed person's SMTP server.  Am I
missing an obvious "NO" here, or have I just thought up a totally new
type of internet application (Maybe I should file a patent for it
right away )

>I uninstalled it again, because I found it awkward, and in addition, I
>have only PC's, no laptop, so I can use my ISP's SMTP at home, and my
>company's SMTP in the office (which has a 24/7 ISDN connection to the
>internet, which I can use via the LAN).
H I see your point. I would only need the SMTP server the short
moment I'm sending the mails.  Don't have to make it manage the
mailboxes.

>Another idea would be to connect via attglobal.net (formerly ibm.net)
>or Compuserve, they have dial-in numbers in many places, and you can
>use either their SMTP server or connect through them to your respective
>SMTP servers. I haven't used either of them for a while, so I don't
>don't whether it still works.
About all of the ISP's I use have POP's all over Belgium, some even
have access from other countries in Belgium.  That however isn't the
problem.  When I'm home, I'm using ADSL, at the office, we have ISDN,
and when I'm on the road I use GSM.
The ISP I use at home doesn't provide an ISDN service like the one we
have in the office.  That one in turn doesn't provide access through
ADSL.  The "on the road" is a special case again, since dialing either
provider would be costly, and it's cheaper per minute to use the
internet provided by the company I get my GSM line from...
Starting to see the picture here...  :-(  I really wish I could get it
all done via just one, but either they don't provide the service I
require or the cost to get it done is too high.
I'm not even going to get started as to why I need the other 2 ISP's
for :-)

Olivier Reubens
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Olivier Reubens,

On  Fri,  05 Jan 2001 at 19:23:54 GMT +0100(which was 1/6/2001 1:23 AM
where you think I live) you told to the list :

>>Obtain  an  old pc. E.g. a P90. Install a *nix/*BSD on it and use it
>>as  a  smtp  server. This solution works very well if your ISP has a
>>dodgy  mail server (e.g. Lineone). When I'm on the internet in Linux
>>I use sendmail and have no need for a smtp server.

OR> And  if  I had a 24/24 line to the internet, I'd get my own domain
OR> registered,  set  up  my own server(s) over here and get ALL of my
OR> internet problems finally finished, alas this is not the case, and
OR> I  really  don't see how you would install an SMTP server on a non
OR> dedicated line.
OR> 24/24 lines with a fixed IP are however still too expensive for my
OR> budget, I can't afford to hand over about 1000 Euro each month.

Ahem...I  am running MDaemon with Personal Dial Up Connection (dynamic
IP)  since  1997  here  in my office. In December 1999, for 3-days the
list  (TBUDL  and  TBBETA)  servicing by my office Server (the Dial Up
one) due my Full On-line Server having outage problem :-)

On this vacation period (I am still on vacation right now :-)), I have
been testing some Freeware Mail Server, most running on Windows base,
and running well on Personal Dial Connection in my PC (P-166, 64 MB
RAM, 4 GB IDE HDD).
If you want to know the details, drop me message privately.

OR> I  am  currently FORCED to use multiple ISP's because none of them
OR> can solve all of my needs at an affordable price.

:-)

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- Syafril -
..Opinion expressed are only mine
*
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Olivier,

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:25:59 +0100 GMT (06/01/2001, 02:25 +0800 GMT),
Olivier Reubens wrote:

OR> If I could get an ISP that can do ALL of the things I need at an
OR> affordable price, I'd kick out all the rest and go with just the one,
OR> but this isn't the case at the moment.

What are your requirements that no single ISP can satisfy?

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Thomas.

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Olivier,

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:23:54 +0100 GMT (06/01/2001, 02:23 +0800 GMT),
Olivier Reubens wrote:

OR> And if I had a 24/24 line to the internet, I'd get my own domain
OR> registered,

I believe with 24 hours on 24 days a week, you could do a lot more
than that. ;-)

OR> set up my own server(s) over here and get ALL of my
OR> internet problems finally finished, alas this is not the case, and I
OR> really don't see how you would install an SMTP server on a non
OR> dedicated line.

There are servers you can install on your PC. Of course, they will be
only active when you are currently connected, but I tried one once,
and it sent the messages directly to the recipient's POP server.

I uninstalled it again, because I found it awkward, and in addition, I
have only PC's, no laptop, so I can use my ISP's SMTP at home, and my
company's SMTP in the office (which has a 24/7 ISDN connection to the
internet, which I can use via the LAN).

But for you, it might be a solution.

Another idea would be to connect via attglobal.net (formerly ibm.net)
or Compuserve, they have dial-in numbers in many places, and you can
use either their SMTP server or connect through them to your respective
SMTP servers. I haven't used either of them for a while, so I don't
don't whether it still works.

It does not work with AOL, though.

OR> The real problem is that depending on where I am, I will dial in to
OR> different ISP's.

See above. Try an ISP that has dial-up numbers everywhere you go.

Another solution (my boss does this) is to dial long-distance to your
home ISP every time. :-(

OR>  Setting the same "SMTP" server in all the accounts
OR> would require me to change all of them each time I connect from
OR> another location, which happens at least 3 times dayly. 

Feature request: Set SMTP server for all accounts to:
Preferrably with a "location" list, wheere you just choose the lace
where you are, and the SMTP server details are stored.

-- 

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Thomas.

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Re: Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 23:39:04 -0500, you wrote:

>I don't know of any mail program that has a provision to switch
>servers on an account for sending.
I am solving it with Forté Agent at this moment, where I can
auto-select the SMTP server depending on what dial-up I made the
connection with.
But Agent requires me to fire a copy of Agent for each mailbox I want
to manage.  Launching Agent 5 times works, but it's not easy to work
with this way.
So far, Agent is the only one which provides me with a "workable" yet
cludgy way to do stuff, and I've tried _LOTS_ of e-mail clients over
the last few months.

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 14:27:07 +0100, you wrote:

>On 05-01-2001 at 03:54, Olivier Reubens kindly wrote:
>
>> Contrary to what someone else suggested, xs4all.be is also a member of
>> the ISPA and doesn't have an open SMTP server.
>
>I suggested that XS4all.be probably uses SMTP authentication
>- which is not the same as an open SMTP. But from a later
>post of yours I gathered that you do not want a new account,
>so that solution is out anyway.

If I could get an ISP that can do ALL of the things I need at an
affordable price, I'd kick out all the rest and go with just the one,
but this isn't the case at the moment.

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

>OR> None  of  the  Belgium  ISP's however support relaying. I get
>OR> 'Relaying Denied' messages if I try. which brings me to problem 

>Obtain an old pc. E.g. a P90. Install a *nix/*BSD on it and use it as a
>smtp server. This solution works very well if your ISP has a dodgy
>mail server (e.g. Lineone). When I'm on the internet in Linux I use
>sendmail and have no need for a smtp server.

And if I had a 24/24 line to the internet, I'd get my own domain
registered, set up my own server(s) over here and get ALL of my
internet problems finally finished, alas this is not the case, and I
really don't see how you would install an SMTP server on a non
dedicated line.
24/24 lines with a fixed IP are however still too expensive for my
budget, I can't afford to hand over about 1000 Euro each month.

I am currently FORCED to use multiple ISP's because none of them can
solve all of my needs at an affordable price.

The real problem is that depending on where I am, I will dial in to
different ISP's.  Setting the same "SMTP" server in all the accounts
would require me to change all of them each time I connect from
another location, which happens at least 3 times dayly. 

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo George,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 05:23:11 -0800 GMT (05/01/2001, 21:23 +0800 GMT),
George F. Schoelles wrote:

GFS> I have also seen smtp servers that can be installed in 98/NT/2K. Have
GFS> yet to try one But they must work.

Isn't Hamster one of those?

-- 

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Thomas.

"The tides are a fight between the Earth and moon.  All water tends
towards the moon, because there is no water in the moon, and nature
abhors a vacuum. I forget where the sun joins in this fight."

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Karin Spaink]

On 05-01-2001 at 03:54, Olivier Reubens kindly wrote:

> Contrary to what someone else suggested, xs4all.be is also a member of
> the ISPA and doesn't have an open SMTP server.

I suggested that XS4all.be probably uses SMTP authentication
- which is not the same as an open SMTP. But from a later
post of yours I gathered that you do not want a new account,
so that solution is out anyway.


- K -

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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[George F. Schoelles]

Hello Jamie,

Friday, January 05, 2001, 12:09:36 AM, you wrote:

JD> A more windows orientated solution is to install NT and a windows
JD> based smtp server. Apart from BackOffice server I've never tried this
JD> method.

I have also seen smtp servers that can be installed in 98/NT/2K. Have
yet to try one But they must work.

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Jannik,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:20:42 +0100GMT (05/01/2001, 16:20 +0800GMT),
Jannik Lindquist wrote:

j>>> I don't know of any mail program that has a provision to switch
j>>> servers on an account for sending.

JL> Is it something like this that is on the wish list

IIRC the wisher wished that we could define more than one SMTP server
for each account. If the mail doesn't get sent through the first, then
TB will try and send through the second, etc.

JL>  (the link to the
JL> wish list on the FAQ-site seems to be broken)?

Has been for a while. Konstantin, are you still reading this list?

JL> Apparently TB already *has* something like the last of these options -
JL> the "Send Mail from All"-option (accessible via the main toolbar). But
JL> how does this work?

Competely different thing. If you hihlight an account and click on
Send, all messages in the Outbox will be sent. If you click on Send
All, messages from all Outboxes in all Accounts will be sent (unless
you have disabled execution of this command in the Account
Properties).

JL>  I seem to be unable to get TB to do this (though I
JL> must admit I haven't tried for a couple of versions!).

If you have ticked Account / Properties / Options / Ignorem 'Check
all' request, than it won't work. Otherwise, it has worked since I use
TB (v1.34).

-- 

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Thomas.  

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Jamie Dainton]

Hello Olivier Reubens,
On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:03:12 +0100 GMT your local time,
which was Thursday, January 04, 2001, 23:03:12 (GMT+0100) (BST) my local time,

Olivier Reubens wrote:

OR> None  of  the  Belgium  ISP's however support relaying. I get
OR> 'Relaying Denied' messages if I try. which brings me to problem 


Obtain an old pc. E.g. a P90. Install a *nix/*BSD on it and use it as a
smtp server. This solution works very well if your ISP has a dodgy
mail server (e.g. Lineone). When I'm on the internet in Linux I use
sendmail and have no need for a smtp server.

A more windows orientated solution is to install NT and a windows
based smtp server. Apart from BackOffice server I've never tried this
method.

The third solution is to find an anonymous smtp server which allows
relaying. Such lists can be found at astalavista.box.sk

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 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=sendKey
 
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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Jannik Lindquist]

Hello Thomas and other TBUDL's,

On Friday, January 05, 2001 at 14:06:32 GMT +0800
Thomas Fernandez wrote on "Multiple email everything.":

j>> I don't know of any mail program that has a provision to switch
j>> servers on an account for sending.

TF> But it's in tghe wsih list for TB. ;-)

Just for the record: In the current version of Becky! it is possible
to choose between these options: "Send from all outboxes using the
*current* mailbox's SMTP-server" and "Send from all outboxes using
*each* mailbox's SMTP-server".

Is it something like this that is on the wish list (the link to the
wish list on the FAQ-site seems to be broken)? It isn't exactly
*switching* mailboxes, of course, but the first option would seem to
solve the first of the two problems starting this thread.

Apparently TB already *has* something like the last of these options -
the "Send Mail from All"-option (accessible via the main toolbar). But
how does this work? I seem to be unable to get TB to do this (though I
must admit I haven't tried for a couple of versions!).


Best regards,

Jannik Lindquist

The Bat! Ver. 1.48h
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Andrey,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 07:19:30 +0300GMT (05/01/2001, 12:19 +0800GMT),
Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) wrote:

TF>> It is not an "open" line if you are connected to it.

AGSAA> Hmm... Didn't catch the point, could you please explain? :-)

The same as you say below, using the more correct term "third party
relay". What I mean is, it does not mean it's open to third parties if
you can use it while being logged in through the same ISP.

TF>> Relaying would be if I used an SMTP server in Germany for an account
TF>> in Thailand while having dialled in through an ISP in Taiwan. If I use
TF>> the SMTP server of the ISP I dial in through, it is not relaying,
TF>> never mind the From address.

AGSAA> Sorry, but you're wrong here.

I meant "third-party relaying". The SMTP server error "sorry, we don't
relay", which I have seen at times, also refers to third-party
relaying, wouldn't it?

AGSAA> Generally, all SMTP servers are "relays". But the actual server
AGSAA> behaviour can significantly vary. You can use ORBS, RBL, DRBL, RSS
AGSAA> whatever databases to prevent spammers from sending your their crap, you
AGSAA> of course should use some kind of ACL (access.db on sendmail) etc.

GMX has, for example, POP before SMTP. So, you POP nad then you can
use their SMTP server, never mind through which ISP you are logged in.

AGSAA> Here is the example. Imagine that one of my SMTP servers acts as a relay
AGSAA> for the following domains:
[...]
AGSAA> EHLO hostname.client.net.ru
AGSAA> MAIL FROM:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
AGSAA> RCPT TO:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Is there a way we can see which commands TB actually sends to the
server? What is RCPT TO: ? The recipients?

AGSAA> then after the last command the server would reply

AGSAA> 550 Relaying denied

AGSAA> because none of the domains used by this kiddie are "local" to the
AGSAA> server.

Of course. That's why I was talking about in the beginning.

-- 

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Thomas.  

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi John,

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 23:39:04 -0500GMT (05/01/2001, 12:39 +0800GMT),
jdanforth1 wrote:

j> I don't know of any mail program that has a provision to switch
j> servers on an account for sending.

But it's in tghe wsih list for TB. ;-)

j> Sorry, but that's all this newby can do (it's my first day with
j> this thing!)

Well done, and welcome to the list. :-)

PS: we don't usually quote the whole original message here, but  only
the parts we are replying to. Saves bandwidth. ;-)

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Thomas.  

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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[jdanforth1]

Sorry, I didn't realize you might be mobile and need different
smtp servers at different times.  Well, one way to do it would be
to duplicate all of your accounts, making another set for each
one of the outgoing servers you intend to use.  The number of
accounts will multiply fast, but they could be easily sorted by
name if the servername were used in the account name first.

This approach would make sending faster, but you would probably
have to make another folder in there to keep all the messages in,
so that they wouldn't be scattered all over the different
accounts.

I don't know of any mail program that has a provision to switch
servers on an account for sending.

Sorry, but that's all this newby can do (it's my first day with
this thing!)


John Danforth

Thursday, January 04, 2001, 8:15:55 PM, you wrote:
** ORIGINAL MESSAGE 

Hello!


Friday, January 05, 2001, 3:41:32 AM, Olivier Reubens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>1.  Set up a separate account for each email address you use.
>>
>>2.  Set each of the accounts up with the appropriate POP3 server
>>info, including username and password.  But, for the SMTP (send)
>>server, enter in the server at the ISP you are connected to.
>>
>>This way you don't have to filter the mail.  The 'From' will have
>>the correct address.  Works OK.
OR> Well, it will work if the ISP remains the same forever. But this isn't
OR> the case.  It depends where I am which ISP I'll connect to.  Having to
OR> go through all the accounts to change the settings doesn't seem like a
OR> very good way to go about this.

Then ask one of your ISPs for the so-called SMTP authentication on one
of the SMTP servers. After that you just need to enter the server name
and the related auth data (username and password) into the account
properties - as many as you need. Be sure that no one of the domains
you're using for you e-mail aren't blocked at this SMTP server.


-- 

Yours sincerely,

Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) http://www.andris.msk.ru/

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris)]

Hello!


Friday, January 05, 2001, 6:26:39 AM, Thomas Fernandez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>>It doesn't matter what account you are using on TB, what matters is
>>>what CONNECTION you have. Choose whichever ISP is the most reliable
>>>for you to connect to, and then use that one for all SMTP. When you
>>>are logged on, it is not considered relaying. What is a problem if
>>>your connection is with ISP-1 and you try to send mail to the SMTP for
>>>ISP-2.

OR>> Well a ruling of the ISPA (www.ispa.be) (belgium organisation
OR>> regulating ISP's in belgium) stipulates that no SMTP server should
OR>> have an "open" line.

TF> It is not an "open" line if you are connected to it.

Hmm... Didn't catch the point, could you please explain? :-)

OR>>   In short, ISP's are only allowed to give SMTP
OR>> access to users that reach them from withing their own dial-ins/leased
OR>> lines/DSL..., but not to someone connecting to it via some other
OR>> location on the internet.

TF> That's what Abigail is saying. For example, your From address is
TF> @gmx.be, but you are logged in through @abc.be, i.e. dial in through
TF> them. Then use the SMTP serever of abc.be. That's what I doing here:
TF> look at my From address and my SMTP server in the headers. I never use
TF> the GMX SMTP server; in fact I use the same local SMTP server for all
TF> my five accounts across three countries.

TF> Relaying would be if I used an SMTP server in Germany for an account
TF> in Thailand while having dialled in through an ISP in Taiwan. If I use
TF> the SMTP server of the ISP I dial in through, it is not relaying,
TF> never mind the From address.

Sorry, but you're wrong here.

Generally, all SMTP servers are "relays". But the actual server
behaviour can significantly vary. You can use ORBS, RBL, DRBL, RSS
whatever databases to prevent spammers from sending your their crap, you
of course should use some kind of ACL (access.db on sendmail) etc. It
depends, as we say here in Russia :-).

So we're speaking about so-called "third party relaying" in this thread.
This relaying occurs when someone connects to a SMTP server which is
serving some number of domains (the actual number doesn't matter here -
it can be 1, 2...) and use the the domain _names_ not known as "local"
by this server as an argument in the MAIL FROM: _and_ RCPT TO: commands.

Here is the example. Imagine that one of my SMTP servers acts as a relay
for the following domains:
- besta.aernet.ru
- schastya.net
- athome.net.ru

There will be no problems when sending messages to, from or across these
domains. But if a client connects to this server and says

EHLO hostname.client.net.ru
MAIL FROM:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
RCPT TO:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

then after the last command the server would reply

550 Relaying denied

because none of the domains used by this kiddie are "local" to the
server.


-- 

Yours sincerely,

Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) http://www.andris.msk.ru/

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Olivier,

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 03:54:25 +0100GMT (05/01/2001, 10:54 +0800GMT),
Olivier Reubens wrote:

>>It doesn't matter what account you are using on TB, what matters is
>>what CONNECTION you have. Choose whichever ISP is the most reliable
>>for you to connect to, and then use that one for all SMTP. When you
>>are logged on, it is not considered relaying. What is a problem if
>>your connection is with ISP-1 and you try to send mail to the SMTP for
>>ISP-2.

OR> Well a ruling of the ISPA (www.ispa.be) (belgium organisation
OR> regulating ISP's in belgium) stipulates that no SMTP server should
OR> have an "open" line.

It is not an "open" line if you are connected to it.

OR>   In short, ISP's are only allowed to give SMTP
OR> access to users that reach them from withing their own dial-ins/leased
OR> lines/DSL..., but not to someone connecting to it via some other
OR> location on the internet.

That's what Abigail is saying. For example, your From address is
@gmx.be, but you are logged in through @abc.be, i.e. dial in through
them. Then use the SMTP serever of abc.be. That's what I doing here:
look at my From address and my SMTP server in the headers. I never use
the GMX SMTP server; in fact I use the same local SMTP server for all
my five accounts across three countries.

Relaying would be if I used an SMTP server in Germany for an account
in Thailand while having dialled in through an ISP in Taiwan. If I use
the SMTP server of the ISP I dial in through, it is not relaying,
never mind the From address.

And the recipient will reply to the Reply-To address, or if there is
none or they use a non-RFC compliant mailer, to the From address. they
will never know who you were logged in through, or whose SMTP server
you used; as you desire.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.48g
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.

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Re: Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:50:48 -0800, you wrote:

>--
>On Thursday, January 04, 2001, 4:38:09 PM, Olivier Reubens wrote:
>
> Under Account Properties, "Transport",
>>>simply specify the SMTP server of whichever ISP you have that DOES
>>>allow relaying & is most reliable.
>OR> NONE of the  ISP's in Belgium allow relaying.
>OR> If you know of a provider /smtp server that I could use for relaying,
>OR> it may be a solution...
>
>It doesn't matter what account you are using on TB, what matters is
>what CONNECTION you have. Choose whichever ISP is the most reliable
>for you to connect to, and then use that one for all SMTP. When you
>are logged on, it is not considered relaying. What is a problem if
>your connection is with ISP-1 and you try to send mail to the SMTP for
>ISP-2.

Well a ruling of the ISPA (www.ispa.be) (belgium organisation
regulating ISP's in belgium) stipulates that no SMTP server should
have an "open" line.  In short, ISP's are only allowed to give SMTP
access to users that reach them from withing their own dial-ins/leased
lines/DSL..., but not to someone connecting to it via some other
location on the internet.  And it doesn't matter whether you pay for
your account at a provider and indeed have a mailbox, you are simply
not allowed to send mail using their SMTP server if you didn't dial
into their server.

I've tried locating the actual rules concerning SMTP servers on the
site of the ISPA, but it's not there.  Maybe I need to write them an
e-mail. :-)

There's maybe only one or two providers in Belgium who haven't joined
the ISPA.  But they either don't provide mailboxes, or aren't worth
what they're asking to get an account.  And I have enough accounts
already, I really don't need more of them.  And I can't afford to drop
any of the ones I have and put 'em all onto one server. 

Contrary to what someone else suggested, xs4all.be is also a member of
the ISPA and doesn't have an open SMTP server.  In all practicality,
you can safely say that ALL ISP's in Belgium are member or the ISPA.


Olivier Reubens.
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 17:23:44 -0800, you wrote:

>Hello Olivier,
>
>
>> When writing a mail, I can change the "From" to any of my account
>> names, but I can't add my other mailboxes to it.
>
>What do you mean "add my other mailboxes" ?

The "FROM:" is a combobox, and I can use it to select any of the
account names.  But, I can't make it displa the additional names I
have at any of the providers.
I can manually overtipe it bit it's tedious, why can't I just select
any of the several handfull of aliasses ?

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:03:12 +0100, Olivier wrote these words of wisdom:

[..trimmed..]

OR> None  of  the  Belgium  ISP's however support relaying. I get
OR> 'Relaying Denied' messages if I try. which brings me to problem 1.

OR> 1) If I have received an e-mail into one of the mailboxes of an
OR> account which ISP I'm not connected to at the moment, I CAN
OR> retrieve the mail, but when replying it'll fail (relaying denied).
OR> I can solve this from the mail-edit window via Options, Active
OR> account, but I need to change it for each message. Is there a way
OR> to "lock" which account to use for sending messages.

You could use the %Account macro in your templates.

If you wish to always reply using a particular account, then in your
reply template, place at the end %Account=""

Since you can define different templates for different folders, you
can be very flexible and versatile and yet maintain automaticity with
the %Account="" macro.

OR> I don't mind the originating address to mismatch the "from"
OR> address which they will reply to. Most aren't smart enough to
OR> figure out how to obtain the real originating address anyway :-)

Sure. :=) You can define the from or Reply-to address on a per-folder
basis and via templates as well.

%FROM="" and %Replyto=""

OR> 2) I have multiple mail names at several of my mail accounts (ex.
OR> [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] When
OR> checking mail, I can neatly put mail for each mail name into it's own
OR> "inbox" (inbox sales, inbox support...) folders with a filter, haven't
OR> done that yet, but I guess it's easy enough.
OR> But, how do I define how to set another "From:" address when I reply
OR> to a mail from any of said inboxes.

The template macros as above. Or via each folders identity settings
found in each folders properties.

[..rest trimmed for brevity..]

- --
@~@@~@
 | A. Curtis Martin  [List Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA]  |
 | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey |
@_@   (Opinions given are mine and not those of RITLABS)   @_@
__
TB! v1.48h | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: Digitally signed for sender and message authentication.

iQA/AwUBOlUjfVfJ62ArBxfiEQIrWwCgg8tXEbOKdS50Xg3OK8W2UDpNgisAn1GK
d8A1Xg2Rmj8kSRLHCFVZ7R+7
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Olivier,

On  Fri, 05 Jan 2001  at  01:38:09 GMT +0100 (which was 4:38 PM
where I live) witnesses say Olivier Reubens typed:

> The inbox, outbox, sent... only has a "general" tab.  Is it something
> only available in the registered version ?

Inbox, outbox, Sent and Trash are system folders.  They do not have
all the options that other folders have.  These folders use most of
the account defaults only.

You need to create a new folder to see the options which are being
discussed.

Oh, and here might be a good place to note that you should *not*
remove the system folders.  You should also make sure that you keep
them at the same folder level as they are currently.  If TB doesn't
find folders with these names where it expects them, there will be
errors.

-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal

 Using The Bat! 1.48f
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Olivier,

On  Fri, 05 Jan 2001  at  00:03:12 GMT +0100 (which was 3:03 PM
where I live) witnesses say Olivier Reubens typed:

> I've been looking for a new e-mail client for quite a while, and
> having tried and rejected many, it seems like The Bat! comes very very
> close to what I've been seeking.

Welcome.  I hope you enjoy your experience with TB.

> I  have e-mail accounts at more than one ISP (5 of them, made accounts
> in  The  Bat!  for  each).



> 1) If I have received an e-mail into one of the mailboxes of an
> account which ISP I'm not connected to at the moment, I CAN retrieve
> the mail, but when replying it'll fail (relaying denied).  I can solve
> this from the mail-edit window via Options, Active account, but I need
> to change it for each message.  Is there a way to "lock" which account
> to use for sending messages.

You have a couple of options.  Probably the best is to use templates
for this purpose.  For an excellent introduction to Quick Templates,
check out the FAQ entry at:

  http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/templates.html


I will assume you know something about templates in the following.  If
this is a bad assumption, please let me know and I'll be more
specific.

Create a Quick Template to change accounts. Then include this Quick
Template into any other Templates you define. Now when you connect
with a different ISP, you just need to change the Quick Template and
all mail will be sent through the appropriate ISP.

Ok, now you're saying, "That's great, but how do I do that?"  Here is
the step by step guide:

1. Create the Account Quick Template:
   a) Copy the following template fragment into your clipboard

  --- Begin Fragment ---
  %ACCOUNT="Connected Account"
  --- End Fragment ---

  Replace Connected Account with the account name of the account
  you want to use.  This should be the name you see in TB in the
  Folder List pane.
 
   b) Options -> Quick Templates -> New
   c) Paste in the fragment (use Ctrl-V, right click won't work.)
   d) Give the Quick Template a name like "Account"
   e) Make sure "Share with Other accounts" is enabled

   Note: It might be wise to define all templates you will use
 in Quick templates.  This will make all template management
 tasks easier in the future.

2. Include the Account Template into all your templates
   a) Use %QINCLUDE="Account" in your templates to include the Account
  quick template into the template.

   Note: You can include any Quick Template into any other Quick
 Template using the macro: %QINCLUDE="QT Handle"
 Just be careful to avoid creating infinite loops.

3. Change the Account QT at any time, and the change will be reflected
   next time you use any of your templates (ie, next time you reply).

Now, this method has one drawback, your outgoing messages will be
distributed in various Sent folders depending on which Account you're
using.  You can use Outgoing filters to sort out the mess.  Again, let
us know if you need help setting up this part.

> 2) I have multiple mail names at several of my mail accounts

> But, how do I define how to set another "From:" address when I reply
> to a mail from any of said inboxes.

You can edit the folder properties or create templates to do this.
I'm partial to templates since they can be more flexible, especially
with Quick Templates.  If you go the template route, the macros you're
looking for are:

 %FROM="You <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
 %REPLYT0="You <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"

> When writing a mail, I can change the "From" to any of my account
> names, but I can't add my other mailboxes to it.

What do you mean "add my other mailboxes" ?

> Am I supposed to make a new mail account for each of my mail accounts

That is an option since filtering can occur across accounts within TB.
However, it depends on how you want the folders to be organised.  With
Templates and filters, you aren't *forced* to make new accounts within
TB.  You can accomplish this within one account.

> I haven't found an alternate way to make other "from" mail names.

I think I answered this above.  Let me know if I misunderstood.

-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal

 Using The Bat! 1.48f
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris)]

Hello!


Friday, January 05, 2001, 3:41:32 AM, Olivier Reubens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>1.  Set up a separate account for each email address you use.
>>
>>2.  Set each of the accounts up with the appropriate POP3 server
>>info, including username and password.  But, for the SMTP (send)
>>server, enter in the server at the ISP you are connected to.
>>
>>This way you don't have to filter the mail.  The 'From' will have
>>the correct address.  Works OK.
OR> Well, it will work if the ISP remains the same forever. But this isn't
OR> the case.  It depends where I am which ISP I'll connect to.  Having to
OR> go through all the accounts to change the settings doesn't seem like a
OR> very good way to go about this.

Then ask one of your ISPs for the so-called SMTP authentication on one
of the SMTP servers. After that you just need to enter the server name
and the related auth data (username and password) into the account
properties - as many as you need. Be sure that no one of the domains
you're using for you e-mail aren't blocked at this SMTP server.


-- 

Yours sincerely,

Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) http://www.andris.msk.ru/

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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Abigail Marshall]

--
On Thursday, January 04, 2001, 4:38:09 PM, Olivier Reubens wrote:

 Under Account Properties, "Transport",
>>simply specify the SMTP server of whichever ISP you have that DOES
>>allow relaying & is most reliable.
OR> NONE of the  ISP's in Belgium allow relaying.
OR> If you know of a provider /smtp server that I could use for relaying,
OR> it may be a solution...

It doesn't matter what account you are using on TB, what matters is
what CONNECTION you have. Choose whichever ISP is the most reliable
for you to connect to, and then use that one for all SMTP. When you
are logged on, it is not considered relaying. What is a problem if
your connection is with ISP-1 and you try to send mail to the SMTP for
ISP-2.
>>OR> Am I supposed to make a new mail account for each of my mail accounts
>>OR> (which I get via one and the same POP3 loginname)
>>OR> I haven't found an alternate way to make other "from" mail names.
>>
>>Just right click on the folder where you are replying from, and choose
>>"Properties" - you can set everything under the tab marked "Identity".
OR> The inbox, outbox, sent... only has a "general" tab.  Is it something
OR> only available in the registered version ?

The registered version is the same as the trial.

What you have to do is create another folder or subfolder, filter all
the incoming mail into that subfolder, and then set the subfolder
properties. You will see that you have a lot more options for setting
properties of folders & subfolders.

-Abigail



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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Karin Spaink]

On 05-01-2001 at 01:38, Olivier Reubens kindly wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:36:43 -0800, you wrote:

>>When you set the account options for that account, don't specify that
>>ISP's outgoing mail server. Under Account Properties, "Transport",
>>simply specify the SMTP server of whichever ISP you have that DOES
>>allow relaying & is most reliable.

> NONE of the  ISP's in Belgium allow relaying.  Any Belgium ISP
> allowing relaying will get fairly high fines for doing so.  It is a
> way to avoid someone using their server for spamming, and I understand
> why this is so.  Even though I still think they could solve it easy
> enough if they used authentication.  but what is little me going to do
> against big corporations :)
> If you know of a provider /smtp server that I could use for relaying,
> it may be a solution...

Have you thought of switching to xs4all.be? They are good
and solid, and probably they *do* use authentication for
their users and thus allow relaying. They are the most
reliable Dutch ISP (*) and set up a branch in Belgium a few
years ago.

(*) as in: both technically and politically - they have been
doing more than any other Dutch provider to protect freedom
of speech, digital civil rights etc.


- K -

-- 

Before relationships, men and women had flings, quick 
ones, dirty weekends and marriages. If they wanted a 
relationship, they had it with their mother or a friend.
  - Julie Burchill: Sex and Sensibility

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:03:28 -0500, you wrote:

>This came in with my first batch of messages, I just bought the
>program and subscribed today.  But your situation matches mine,
>so I'll tell you how to set it up like mine.
>
>1.  Set up a separate account for each email address you use.
>
>2.  Set each of the accounts up with the appropriate POP3 server
>info, including username and password.  But, for the SMTP (send)
>server, enter in the server at the ISP you are connected to.
>
>This way you don't have to filter the mail.  The 'From' will have
>the correct address.  Works OK.
Well, it will work if the ISP remains the same forever. But this isn't
the case.  It depends where I am which ISP I'll connect to.  Having to
go through all the accounts to change the settings doesn't seem like a
very good way to go about this.

>
>--John--
>
>
>
>
>Thursday, January 04, 2001, 6:03:12 PM, you wrote:
>** ORIGINAL MESSAGE 
>
>Hi,
>
>I asked this via information request, but haven't gotten any response
>to it yet, maybe some of you have faced similar situations and found a
>way to work with them...
>
>
>I've been looking for a new e-mail client for quite a while, and
>having tried and rejected many, it seems like The Bat! comes very very
>close to what I've been seeking.  If there's a way to solve the
>following 2 issues.  I checked the TBUL archive but couldn't really
>find what I was looking for...
>
>I  have e-mail accounts at more than one ISP (5 of them, made accounts
>in  The  Bat!  for  each).  Ok,  no  problem, The Bat! can make handle
>multiple  accounts,  I found this already, and it is working just fine
>to retrieve mail from all of them.
>
>None  of  the  Belgium  ISP's however support relaying. I get
>'Relaying Denied' messages if I try. which brings me to problem 1.
>
>1) If I have received an e-mail into one of the mailboxes of an
>account which ISP I'm not connected to at the moment, I CAN retrieve
>the mail, but when replying it'll fail (relaying denied).  I can solve
>this from the mail-edit window via Options, Active account, but I need
>to change it for each message.  Is there a way to "lock" which account
>to use for sending messages.  I don't mind the originating address to
>mismatch the "from" address which they will reply to.  Most aren't
>smart enough to figure out how to obtain the real originating address
>anyway :-)
>
>2) I have multiple mail names at several of my mail accounts (ex.
>[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] When
>checking mail, I can neatly put mail for each mail name into it's own
>"inbox" (inbox sales, inbox support...) folders with a filter, haven't
>done that yet, but I guess it's easy enough.  
>But, how do I define how to set another "From:" address when I reply
>to a mail from any of said inboxes.  I don't see a way to do this.
>When writing a mail, I can change the "From" to any of my account
>names, but I can't add my other mailboxes to it.
>Am I supposed to make a new mail account for each of my mail accounts
>(which I get via one and the same POP3 loginname)
>I haven't found an alternate way to make other "from" mail names.
>
>Olivier Reubens
>
>--
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:36:43 -0800, you wrote:

>--
>On Thursday, January 04, 2001, 3:03:12 PM, Olivier Reubens wrote:
>
>
>OR> 1) If I have received an e-mail into one of the mailboxes of an
>OR> account which ISP I'm not connected to at the moment, I CAN retrieve
>OR> the mail, but when replying it'll fail (relaying denied).
>
>When you set the account options for that account, don't specify that
>ISP's outgoing mail server. Under Account Properties, "Transport",
>simply specify the SMTP server of whichever ISP you have that DOES
>allow relaying & is most reliable.
NONE of the  ISP's in Belgium allow relaying.  Any Belgium ISP
allowing relaying will get fairly high fines for doing so.  It is a
way to avoid someone using their server for spamming, and I understand
why this is so.  Even though I still think they could solve it easy
enough if they used authentication.  but what is little me going to do
against big corporations :)
If you know of a provider /smtp server that I could use for relaying,
it may be a solution...

>The ONLY problem with this is that if you receive mail via a pop
>server attached to domain1.com, and your mail is sent out via
>domain2.com, this will appear in the RFC headers in the body of the
>message, and it is possible that your mail could be rejected if the
>intended recipient has filters that would block out mail from unknown
>ISPs, or specifically domain2.com ISPs.
uh huh Possible, although why would they do that ?

>OR> I don't mind the originating address to
>OR> mismatch the "from" address which they will reply to.  Most aren't
>OR> smart enough to figure out how to obtain the real originating address
>OR> anyway :-)
>
>The "from" address will still be whatever you set it - the domain2.com
>address will only be seen in the RFC headers. If you look at the
>headers of this email, you will see that my email is at
>"dyslexia.com", but this has been transmitted via ogopogo.flash.net -
>I always do this.
All I care about is that if they hit "reply" it will return into
whatever mailbox I sent a mail out of.  and as I said, I doubt any of
them is smart enough to figure out the real RFC (?) address.  ANd if
they do, well, just as long as Reply will get it where it's supposed
to.  A reply to a mail sent from support should arrive into the
support inbox.

>OR> But, how do I define how to set another "From:" address when I reply
>OR> to a mail from any of said inboxes.  I don't see a way to do this.
>OR> When writing a mail, I can change the "From" to any of my account
>OR> names, but I can't add my other mailboxes to it.
>OR> Am I supposed to make a new mail account for each of my mail accounts
>OR> (which I get via one and the same POP3 loginname)
>OR> I haven't found an alternate way to make other "from" mail names.
>
>Just right click on the folder where you are replying from, and choose
>"Properties" - you can set everything under the tab marked "Identity".
The inbox, outbox, sent... only has a "general" tab.  Is it something
only available in the registered version ?

Olivier Reubens
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[jdanforth1]

This came in with my first batch of messages, I just bought the
program and subscribed today.  But your situation matches mine,
so I'll tell you how to set it up like mine.

1.  Set up a separate account for each email address you use.

2.  Set each of the accounts up with the appropriate POP3 server
info, including username and password.  But, for the SMTP (send)
server, enter in the server at the ISP you are connected to.

This way you don't have to filter the mail.  The 'From' will have
the correct address.  Works OK.

--John--




Thursday, January 04, 2001, 6:03:12 PM, you wrote:
** ORIGINAL MESSAGE 

Hi,

I asked this via information request, but haven't gotten any response
to it yet, maybe some of you have faced similar situations and found a
way to work with them...


I've been looking for a new e-mail client for quite a while, and
having tried and rejected many, it seems like The Bat! comes very very
close to what I've been seeking.  If there's a way to solve the
following 2 issues.  I checked the TBUL archive but couldn't really
find what I was looking for...

I  have e-mail accounts at more than one ISP (5 of them, made accounts
in  The  Bat!  for  each).  Ok,  no  problem, The Bat! can make handle
multiple  accounts,  I found this already, and it is working just fine
to retrieve mail from all of them.

None  of  the  Belgium  ISP's however support relaying. I get
'Relaying Denied' messages if I try. which brings me to problem 1.

1) If I have received an e-mail into one of the mailboxes of an
account which ISP I'm not connected to at the moment, I CAN retrieve
the mail, but when replying it'll fail (relaying denied).  I can solve
this from the mail-edit window via Options, Active account, but I need
to change it for each message.  Is there a way to "lock" which account
to use for sending messages.  I don't mind the originating address to
mismatch the "from" address which they will reply to.  Most aren't
smart enough to figure out how to obtain the real originating address
anyway :-)

2) I have multiple mail names at several of my mail accounts (ex.
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] When
checking mail, I can neatly put mail for each mail name into it's own
"inbox" (inbox sales, inbox support...) folders with a filter, haven't
done that yet, but I guess it's easy enough.  
But, how do I define how to set another "From:" address when I reply
to a mail from any of said inboxes.  I don't see a way to do this.
When writing a mail, I can change the "From" to any of my account
names, but I can't add my other mailboxes to it.
Am I supposed to make a new mail account for each of my mail accounts
(which I get via one and the same POP3 loginname)
I haven't found an alternate way to make other "from" mail names.

Olivier Reubens

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Abigail Marshall]

--
On Thursday, January 04, 2001, 3:03:12 PM, Olivier Reubens wrote:


OR> 1) If I have received an e-mail into one of the mailboxes of an
OR> account which ISP I'm not connected to at the moment, I CAN retrieve
OR> the mail, but when replying it'll fail (relaying denied).

When you set the account options for that account, don't specify that
ISP's outgoing mail server. Under Account Properties, "Transport",
simply specify the SMTP server of whichever ISP you have that DOES
allow relaying & is most reliable.

The ONLY problem with this is that if you receive mail via a pop
server attached to domain1.com, and your mail is sent out via
domain2.com, this will appear in the RFC headers in the body of the
message, and it is possible that your mail could be rejected if the
intended recipient has filters that would block out mail from unknown
ISPs, or specifically domain2.com ISPs.

OR> I don't mind the originating address to
OR> mismatch the "from" address which they will reply to.  Most aren't
OR> smart enough to figure out how to obtain the real originating address
OR> anyway :-)

The "from" address will still be whatever you set it - the domain2.com
address will only be seen in the RFC headers. If you look at the
headers of this email, you will see that my email is at
"dyslexia.com", but this has been transmitted via ogopogo.flash.net -
I always do this.

OR> But, how do I define how to set another "From:" address when I reply
OR> to a mail from any of said inboxes.  I don't see a way to do this.
OR> When writing a mail, I can change the "From" to any of my account
OR> names, but I can't add my other mailboxes to it.
OR> Am I supposed to make a new mail account for each of my mail accounts
OR> (which I get via one and the same POP3 loginname)
OR> I haven't found an alternate way to make other "from" mail names.

Just right click on the folder where you are replying from, and choose
"Properties" - you can set everything under the tab marked "Identity".

-Abigail

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Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

Hi,

I asked this via information request, but haven't gotten any response
to it yet, maybe some of you have faced similar situations and found a
way to work with them...


I've been looking for a new e-mail client for quite a while, and
having tried and rejected many, it seems like The Bat! comes very very
close to what I've been seeking.  If there's a way to solve the
following 2 issues.  I checked the TBUL archive but couldn't really
find what I was looking for...

I  have e-mail accounts at more than one ISP (5 of them, made accounts
in  The  Bat!  for  each).  Ok,  no  problem, The Bat! can make handle
multiple  accounts,  I found this already, and it is working just fine
to retrieve mail from all of them.

None  of  the  Belgium  ISP's however support relaying. I get
'Relaying Denied' messages if I try. which brings me to problem 1.

1) If I have received an e-mail into one of the mailboxes of an
account which ISP I'm not connected to at the moment, I CAN retrieve
the mail, but when replying it'll fail (relaying denied).  I can solve
this from the mail-edit window via Options, Active account, but I need
to change it for each message.  Is there a way to "lock" which account
to use for sending messages.  I don't mind the originating address to
mismatch the "from" address which they will reply to.  Most aren't
smart enough to figure out how to obtain the real originating address
anyway :-)

2) I have multiple mail names at several of my mail accounts (ex.
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] When
checking mail, I can neatly put mail for each mail name into it's own
"inbox" (inbox sales, inbox support...) folders with a filter, haven't
done that yet, but I guess it's easy enough.  
But, how do I define how to set another "From:" address when I reply
to a mail from any of said inboxes.  I don't see a way to do this.
When writing a mail, I can change the "From" to any of my account
names, but I can't add my other mailboxes to it.
Am I supposed to make a new mail account for each of my mail accounts
(which I get via one and the same POP3 loginname)
I haven't found an alternate way to make other "from" mail names.

Olivier Reubens

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