subject:"\[TruthTalk\] Holy Hubert"

In a message dated 5/6/2004 11:05:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Lets just drop it for now. Someday you will realize that there is a bit of bulldog in me. I am making it a hobby to dig up all the truth about Happy Herbert. Some of his pictures actually look like Elsman. 

SMITHGLUTTON,
 "BLESS YOUR DIRTY HEART".
 ---ELSMANSTEIN
P.S.
 I SHALL TRY TO GET A ROLE ON "LITTLE RASCALS", IF YOU DON'T MIND, AND GIVE YOU AS A REFERENCE.

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

In a message dated 5/6/2004 10:27:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



DAVEH: I don't understand, Elsman..??? What's the problem with revealing a few techniques you might know that would benefit other students of the Bible? Did Hubert swear you to secrecy? (And if so.why?)




HE TOLD ME IN CONFIDENCE. HIS ESTATE MAY HAVE AN ASSET. IF YOU KNOW THE LITERATURE ON THE SUBJECT, THERE ARE MANY THAT HAVE MADE FORTUNES ON THEIR OWN MEMORY COURSES:
 -- DAVE DE BUSSCHER, B-BALL PLAYER
 -- JOHN LUCAS, B-BALL PLAYER

 IF ANYONE ON THIS LIST CONSULTED ME, I WOULD NO MORE REVEAL SUCH CONFIDENCES THAN HERE. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND LAWYER ETHICS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

In a message dated 5/6/2004 2:19:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I'm wondering if the "Memory course" is, in fact, scientific or if that is just hype.
 God's Word does have a cleansing effect on both mind and heart but I don't know
 if this happens when it is taken out of balance and context. Wrong teaching can
 also bend the conscience in the wrong direction. The end never justifies the means.
 judyt


JUDY,
 IF YOU DOUBT HUBERT'S MEMORY, ASK DAVID TO TELL YOU WHAT HUBERT DID RE A SPONTANEOUS QUESTION , ASKING HIM IF HE COULD RECITE ROMANS 8.
 ---JIM

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

In a message dated 5/6/2004 1:18:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Jim, you're almost there. Lets ask John f he approves of you addressing him 
this way. If he does not, lets set it aside and call him John, or Smithson, 
or John Smithson, (but not JS), okay?

Perry the Moderator

*/
NOT THAT A LAWYER CAN REVEAL. SORRY. I ONLY TATTLE ON THAT BUTTERBALL 
FRAUD.
 ---ELSMANSTEIN/*



MY PROBLEM IS THAT I ONLY "MEMORIZED" THE NAME BUTTERBALL FROM THAT OTHER SITE, WHERE WE ALL CALLED HIM BUTTERBALL, AFTER HE BRAGGED ABOUT HIS 5 FOOT HEIGHT  270 POUNDS. INDEED, ONE LAS VEGAS PREACHER SUGGESTED THAT WE ROLL BUTTERBALL DOWN THE STREET IN FRONT OF THE BELLAGIO, SO TO CONFRONT THE HOMOS AND GAMBLERS. (DID JOHN EVER ANSWER IF HE WAS AC/DC, AS DAVID ASKED?) 
 I WILL CONSULT HUBERT'S NOTES TO SEE IF I CAN BE DE-PROGRAMMED  THEN RE-PROGRAMMED.

 ELSMANSTEIN, AS THEY CALL ME,DERISEVLY, MOCKING THE "TOUGH JEWISH LAWYER IMAGE".

RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-06 Thread David Miller

John S. wrote:
 In a previous post, you surmised that there was little 
 to nothing written about the man because there weren't 
 any computers at the time. Give me a break.

You misunderstood me.  When interesting things happen today, they get
posted on the internet and pop up on search engines right away.  You
search the internet and think you have done your homework because of the
way the internet operates today.  Try to search on events that took
place in 1960.  It is not quite as easy.  The highlights of much of
Hubert's ministry was in the 1930's  40's, and then again in the
1960's.  Therefore, you need to search newspapers and the like rather
than the internet if you want to dig up the info you are looking for.  

If you are really serious about this, Bill Bright (Campus Crusade for
Christ) was apparently someone famous who kept tabs on Hubert.  Hubert
told me that he even called upon him in the nursing home.
Unfortunately, Bill Bright passed on just about four months after Hubert
did last year.  Still, perhaps someone at his ministry can give you some
information.

John wrote:
 I am saying that I shouldn't have to beat the bushes 
 to find out something about a man who  ministered 
 to Billy Graham, was certificated by the Pope, 
 converted 40,000 Jews, saved additional thousands 
 of hippies, was shot with a .38 and healed on the 
 way to the hospital, and the like.  
 Your response  -- increase the mythology!   

How do I increase the mythology?  You mean that every time someone
shares information, that is increasing the mythology?  You claimed that
there was nowhere to look, and I was saying there should be plenty to
find if you look.  Sorry for trying to give you hope in your quest to
find out about him.

John S. wrote:
 Lets do this.   I will take back the fraud part 
 of my criticism of HH..and transpose it 
 to his mythology.   Since he is dead,  I don't 
 need to pull a Bush and say I'm sorry.  

Well, if you don't apologize for the way you do research and jump to
conclusions, then I will just know that you cannot be trusted when you
report information to us.  No offense, just the way it is if you don't
think you owe an apology for this rash statement of yours.  I am glad
you have retracted the fraud accusation, but it really should not have
taken this much to get that.

John S. wrote:
 You are so specific about the 59 countries.   
 Must be a source on that, huh?  
 Outer Mongolia 

I'm just reporting to you what Hubert told me directly.  Hubert had some
great stories about Mongolia and his experience in the court system
there, but if I told them to you, it would surely add to the mythology
because they sound like the book of Acts.  :-)

John S. wrote:
 Anyway  --  lets get back to bible study and 
 warm and passionate discussion.  

Sounds good to me.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

In a message dated 5/6/2004 8:36:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

HE TOLD ME IN CONFIDENCE. HIS ESTATE MAY HAVE AN ASSET. IF YOU KNOW THE LITERATURE ON THE SUBJECT, THERE ARE MANY THAT HAVE MADE FORTUNES ON THEIR OWN MEMORY COURSES:
 -- DAVE DE BUSSCHER, B-BALL PLAYER
 -- JOHN LUCAS, B-BALL PLAYER

IF ANYONE ON THIS LIST CONSULTED ME, I WOULD NO MORE REVEAL SUCH CONFIDENCES THAN HERE. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND LAWYER ETHICS. 

More nonsense, I think. Just another reason why we cannot check out the mythology surrounding this minister to Mongolia.

RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

2004-05-06 Thread ShieldsFamily









Now Im cracking up!
ROFL Izzy













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND LAWYER ETHICS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

In a message dated 5/6/2004 8:55:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

MY PROBLEM IS THAT I ONLY "MEMORIZED" THE NAME BUTTERBALL FROM THAT OTHER SITE, WHERE WE ALL CALLED HIM BUTTERBALL,

Actually, only Elsman used this _expression_. Just another lie -- but who is counting. 

John

RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

2004-05-06 Thread ShieldsFamily









John, I really hope you do the homework on HH. Wouldnt that be a fascinating
book? (Better than The Apostle?) Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:19
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holy
Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course





In a message dated 5/6/2004 8:36:32 PM Pacific Daylight
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:




HE TOLD ME IN CONFIDENCE. HIS ESTATE MAY HAVE AN
ASSET. IF YOU KNOW THE LITERATURE ON THE SUBJECT, THERE ARE MANY THAT
HAVE MADE FORTUNES ON THEIR OWN MEMORY COURSES:
 -- DAVE DE BUSSCHER, B-BALL
PLAYER
 -- JOHN LUCAS, B-BALL
PLAYER

IF ANYONE ON THIS LIST CONSULTED ME, I WOULD NO MORE REVEAL SUCH CONFIDENCES
THAN HERE. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND LAWYER ETHICS. 



More nonsense, I think. Just another reason why we cannot check out
the mythology surrounding this minister to Mongolia.

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

In a message dated 5/6/2004 9:00:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

John S. wrote:
Anyway -- lets get back to bible study and 
warm and passionate discussion. 

Sounds good to me.


Alright, then. 

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

In a message dated 5/6/2004 9:31:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

John, I really hope you do the homework on HH. Wouldnt that be a fascinating book? (Better than The Apostle?) Izzy



Truly. He sounds fascinating and his disciples sound a little gullible. The truth is probably in between somewhere. I will keep you posted. John

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course







[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 5/6/2004 7:31:51 PM Pacific
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
  
Whatever
works -- but I don't sit and roll over. 


DAVEH: You will after Izzy gets done training you... ;-) 

JD

  
  
  
I think if I "pant" right now, it would be funny.
  
J
DAVEH:  :-P 
And..don't forget to wag your tail.

-- 
~~~
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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course







[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 YOU DON'T
UNDERSTAND LAWYER ETHICS.
DAVEH: You are right, Elsman. Perhaps you can explain them to
us.  ;-) 

-- 
~~~
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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-06 Thread Lance Muir




David: " I don't wast time looking up stuff like 
that" Did you ever say anything similar to this on the papers you submitted 
during your course of study in biology? Blessings, Lance

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: May 06, 2004 01:40
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
  Lindsey
  In a message dated 5/5/2004 7:32:09 PM Pacific 
  Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  John S. wrote:... you are admitting that there is 
nothing out there that verifies his associations, credentials, 
and evangelistic successes - right? No, I am not 
admitting that. You can go look for them if you want. Iknew 
the man, so I don't waste time looking up stuff like that. 
Thatwould be like me trying to look up third party support for 
Jesusactually existing and dying for the sins of the world. What a 
waste oftime!I can go look them up 
  ??? No place to look, is there David. I am told to test 
  the spirits to see whether they are of God. My desire to 
  verify the extraordinary claims of HH is certainly not out of line with 
  scriptural injunction. I would expect Billy Graham to reference 
  him somewhere. I would think Mordecai Ham would mention his 
  name. I would expect to find some reference in Catholic 
  literature. His PhD -- is it wrong for me to question these 
  claims? (Keep in mind that I do not care where he earned the PhD -- just 
  that he did as claimed.) An evangelist who converted 40,000 to 70,000 
  Jews should have a footnote somewhere in American historical annuals, to say 
  the least. Thousands of hippies? What street preacher has ever had 
  such success??? If it all be truth - only HH. 
  And no mention of him anywhere. The historical record does 
  not omit someone who was quietly successful at such a level of 
  accomplishment. Why is it that he is the only HIGHLY successful street 
  preacher without historical footnote? And why am I the bad guy for 
  putting these questions to you expecting a real answer? 
  
  John S. wrote:And if internet resources are of no 
account, the positives are gone as well - and there is one 
site that extolls his ministry. I never meant to 
convey that internet resources are of no account, butyou certainly 
should not read one or two websites and then declare thatthe man was a 
fraud! You need to check out what you read and considerthe bias of 
their presentation. Here we go with that circular 
  logic of yours. In this paragraph you tell me to "check out" what 
  I read. In the former paragraph, you reducible that very process (That 
  would be like looking up third party support for Jesus 
  .") Be swift to hear and slow to speak.
  Easy for you to say. David, something 
  is wrong with this HH mythology. Maybe nothing wrong with 
  the man but the myth seems to be something very different. 
  Perhaps Lindsey is not the fraud in all this? But something is 
  soarly wrong with the story. Who are his 
  disciples? Elsman and those who are influenced by him 
  -- who else? John

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course


Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Jim, you're almost there. Lets ask John f he approves of you 
addressing him this way. If he does not, lets set it aside and call 
him John, or Smithson, or John Smithson, (but not JS),
DAVEH:   HmmJS2 might work, eh!
okay?
Perry the Moderator
*/
NOT THAT A LAWYER CAN REVEAL.  SORRY.   I ONLY TATTLE ON THAT 
BUTTERBALL FRAUD.
   ---ELSMANSTEIN/*

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
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Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

In a message dated 5/6/2004 7:10:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

DAVEH: HmmJS2 might work, eh!


Whatever works -- but I don't sit and roll over. 

JD

[TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

2004-05-06 Thread Judy Taylor




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:DAVEH: HmmJS2 might work, eh!John: 
Whatever works -- but I don't sit and roll over. jt: You wouldn't be sitting and rolling over listening to verses 
from HH's memory.
They are intertwined with so much 
other stuff and come out so fast that it's like
an auctioneer speaking 
them.

I'm wondering if the "Memory course" 
is, in fact, scientific or if that is just hype.
God's Word does have a cleansing 
effect on both mind and heart but I don't know
if this happens when it is taken out 
of balance and context. Wrong teaching can
also bend the conscience in the wrong 
direction. The end never justifies the means.
judyt

RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

2004-05-06 Thread ShieldsFamily

BTW,  Why does John sign his name JD sometimes? Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

Jim, you're almost there. Lets ask John f he approves of you addressing him 
this way. If he does not, lets set it aside and call him John, or Smithson, 
or John Smithson, (but not JS), okay?

Perry the Moderator

*/
NOT THAT A LAWYER CAN REVEAL.  SORRY.   I ONLY TATTLE ON THAT BUTTERBALL 
FRAUD.
---ELSMANSTEIN/*

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
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things I find interesting,
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JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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--
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ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

In a message dated 5/6/2004 11:19:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I'm wondering if the "Memory course" is, in fact, scientific or if that is just hype.

Experience tells me that this is just more of the mythology of Happy Hubert. And I am speaking of the "memory course."

J

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

In a message dated 5/6/2004 12:08:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

DaveH, Perhaps the problem is that Elsman forgot what they were. J Izzy


Sometimes the truth is just as funny as the fiction. Good one, my dear. 

J

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

In a message dated 5/6/2004 12:26:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

BTW, Why does John sign his name "JD" sometimes? Izzy


Rise, I am but a man.

John David Smithson

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course





DAVEH: LOL...Hmm.now I see why some of the masculine
TTers want to keep the female felines at bay..

ShieldsFamily wrote:

  
  


  
  
  
  DaveH,
Perhaps the problem is that Elsman
forgot what they were. J Izzy
  
  
  
  
  From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Dave
  Sent: Wednesday, May
05, 2004 9:53
PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Holy
Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course
  
  
  DAVEH: I don't
understand, Elsman..???
What's the problem with revealing a few techniques you might know that
would
benefit other students of the Bible? Did Hubert swear you to
secrecy? (And if so.why?)
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
  In
a message dated 5/5/2004
10:31:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
  
  
  
  
DAVEH: Thanx Judy..I find that very interesting. It apparently
took Hubert a lot of effort to memorize.it wasn't just a natural
talent. To memorize the NT in a half year must have required a lot of
time spent repeating this procedure. I'll be curious to hear if Elsman
learned any more secrets related to this technique.
  
  
NOT THAT A LAWYER CAN REVEAL. SORRY. I ONLY TATTLE ON THAT
BUTTERBALL FRAUD.

---ELSMANSTEIN
  


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~~~
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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course







[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 5/6/2004 7:10:52 AM Pacific
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
  DAVEH:
HmmJS2 might work, eh!
  
  
  
Whatever works -- but I don't sit and roll over. 
  
DAVEH: You will after Izzy gets done training you...  ;-) 

JD

-- 
~~~
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RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-06 Thread David Miller

John S. wrote:
 I can go look them up ???   
 No place to look, is there David.  

I don't know why you would say that.  Hubert preached in all 50 states
and in 59 other countries.  He was arrested 100 times, including being
put in jail in Hong Kong, China, and outer Mongolia!  You should be able
to find lots of newspaper articles if you looked hard enough.  I know
that he spent 11 days in jail in Chattanooga, Tennessee.  He preached at
the University of California in Berkley around 1967-1969.  Elsman
mentioned that he was given some kind of award from Ronald Reagan.  I
don't understand why you are being so negative and critical.  There are
probably lots of places to look for information.  Jerry Rubin of the
Chicago 7 fame knew Hubert, and I think I remember a few years ago
reading something from Jerry Rubin about Hubert.  I think it might have
been his paper at UC Berkley that gave Hubert the nickname, Holy
Hubert.  How many newspapers have you searched?  Which ones did you
try?

To help you with his educational stuff, Hubert told me that he attended
the University of Wisconsin, Taylor University, and S. Baptist
Theological Seminary where he earned a Master's degree.  These schools
account for about 6 years of his higher education.  Hubert was ordained
in the Baptist denomination in 1934.  He studied under the Jewish Rabbi
after this time, but I never learned what his name was or where it was.
I think this is where he earned the doctorate, but I'm not sure about
that.

John S. wrote:
 I am told to test the spirits to see 
 whether they are of God.

That has nothing to do with declaring Hubert a fraud after reading some
sinners post their hatred for him on the Internet.  Hubert isn't here
ministering to you, so what is the big deal?  Why do you want to defame
a dead man?

John S. wrote:
 My desire to verify the extraordinary claims 
 of HH is certainly not out of line with scriptural 
 injunction.   

I don't have any problem with you verifying any extraordinary claims.
As I have said, go right ahead.  For some reason you are compelled to
malign Hubert as a fraud on flimsy evidence or on the lack of evidence
to the contrary!  Are you just trying to be spiteful toward Elsman?

John S. wrote:
 I would expect Billy Graham to reference him somewhere.   

I wouldn't expect that!  Billy Graham is a political man.  People who
commend one another stay as far away from guys like Hubert as much as
possible.  Hubert has no money or prestige to offer them.  He is like a
homeless guy, despised by the world.  Furthermore, they don't know when
he, under the anointing, is going to point his finger in their face and
tell them, REPENT SINNER!

Why don't you write Billy Graham a letter and ask him about Hubert
Lindsey?  We would all like to hear how he responds.

John S. wrote:
 I would think Mordecai Ham would mention his name.   

Why? You don't seem to understand the world system and the way most
ministries organize themselves.  

John S. wrote:
 I would expect to find some reference in Catholic 
 literature. His PhD  --  is it wrong for me to 
 question these claims? 

Not at all, but it is wrong for you to declare him a fraud when you have
not done your homework.

John S. wrote:
 (Keep in mind that I do not care where he earned the 
 PhD  -- just that he did as claimed.)  

Why?  What does it matter?  I agree with Hubert that too many people put
too much stock in education and diplomas.

John S. wrote:
 An evangelist who converted 40,000 to 70,000 Jews 
 should have a footnote somewhere in American 
 historical annuals, to say the least.   Thousands 
 of hippies? What street preacher has ever had such 
 success???   

Hubert always emphasized his lack of success, but he was amazed when
after not having a single convert for 3 years, preaching at UC Berkley,
and getting beat up about 150 times by Black Panthers, the Manson
family, etc., suddenly he was preaching via a communist owned microphone
on a communist owned car to thousands of hippies and witnessed the
greatest revival he had ever seen.  Does he have any earthly recognition
for his part in this?  Not much.  So what.  God himself knows what
happened, and God has some people like this in life, dedicated men who
get no recognition in this life, to inspire some of the rest of us about
how the last shall be first.  I have no doubt that Hubert has great
rewards in heaven and will have great recognition there.  From the
worldly media standards, nobody knows Hubert, but for those of us who
did know him, we feel greatly blessed and honored.  

Just think of Hubert as a homeless bum who doesn't deserve any
attention.  Hubert would like it that way.  But please do not call him a
fraud based upon a few nights of searching the internet and reading the
reports of the wicked. 

John S. wrote:
 The historical record does not omit someone who 
 was quietly successful at such a level of 
 accomplishment.  

Yes it does, John.  Others take credit.  I have seen this happen

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

In a message dated 5/6/2004 7:31:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Whatever works -- but I don't sit and roll over. 

DAVEH: You will after Izzy gets done training you... ;-) 

JD


I think if I "pant" right now, it would be funny.

J

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

In a message dated 5/6/2004 7:43:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I don't know why you would say that. Hubert preached in all 50 states
and in 59 other countries. He was arrested 100 times, including being
put in jail in Hong Kong, China, and outer Mongolia! You should be able
to find lots of newspaper articles if you looked hard enough. I know
that he spent 11 days in jail in Chattanooga, Tennessee. He preached at
the University of California in Berkley around 1967-1969. Elsman
mentioned that he was given some kind of award from Ronald Reagan. I
don't understand why you are being so negative and critical. There are
probably lots of places to look for information. Jerry Rubin of the
Chicago 7 fame knew Hubert, and I think I remember a few years ago
reading something from Jerry Rubin about Hubert. I think it might have
been his paper at UC Berkley that gave Hubert the nickname, "Holy
Hubert." How many newspapers have you searched? Which ones did you
try?

Outer Mongolia ??? You think you remember something ...??? The very trustworthy Elsman said ...??? In a previous post, you surmised that there was little to nothing written about the man because there weren't any computers at the time. Give me a break. I am saying that I shouldn't have to beat the bushes to find out something about a man who ministered to Billy Graham, was certificated by the Pope, converted 40,000 Jews, saved additional thousands of hippies, was shot with a .38 and healed on the way to the hospital, and the like. Your response -- increase the mythology!

Lets do this. I will take back the fraud part of my criticism of HH..and transpose it to his mythology. Since he is dead, I don't need to pull a Bush and say I'm sorry.

Lets just drop it for now. Someday you will realize that there is a bit of bulldog in me. I am making it a hobby to dig up all the truth about Happy Herbert. Some of his pictures actually look like Elsman. Maybe ? nah.

Anyway -- lets get back to bible study and warm and passionate discussion.

Your old brother

John Smithson

You are so specific about the 59 countries. Must be a source on that, huh? Outer Mongolia

RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-06 Thread David Miller

Lance wrote:
 I don't wast time looking up stuff like that Did 
 you ever say anything similar to this on the papers 
 you submitted during your course of study in biology? 

This isn't a classroom.  I knew Hubert and shared some of my
appreciation for him, now somebody wants me to be an expert about
documenting his reality?  I'm sorry if you don't understand why I don't
care.  

John Smithson has mentioned being married.  How about I ask him to prove
it to me.  I want to see the marriage license.  Do you think John would
produce it for me right away?  Would he feel like he had better go get a
copy of it and send it to me, because David thinks he is a fraud and is
not really married?  I think John would either tell me to go jump in a
lake or he would just ignore me.  Why should he waste the time?  What's
the point?  That's how I feel about proving anything about Hubert.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

In a message dated 5/6/2004 8:08:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

John Smithson has mentioned being married. How about I ask him to prove
it to me. I want to see the marriage license. Do you think John would
produce it for me right away? Would he feel like he had better go get a
copy of it and send it to me, because David thinks he is a fraud and is
not really married? I think John would either tell me to go jump in a
lake or he would just ignore me. Why should he waste the time? What's
the point? That's how I feel about proving anything about Hubert.


I am sorry -- but I am pretty much in stetches right now. I am laughing so hard that my wife (my supposed wife) has just walked down the hall, shut the door to my study and has gone back into the front room. The last several posts have been great. Outer Mongolia is one of the best lines of any scripted on TT. Hats off on that one. lol

I am just wondering how Lance is dealing with this homosexual thing. Man, when you are "wrong" on TT, it opens doors to all kinds of speculation. lol lol Keep writing. I am too weak to leave the computer desk. Peace out.  John

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-05 Thread Knpraise

In a message dated 5/5/2004 7:32:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

John S. wrote:
... you are admitting that there is nothing out
there that verifies his associations, credentials,
and evangelistic successes - right?

No, I am not admitting that. You can go look for them if you want. I
knew the man, so I don't waste time looking up stuff like that. That
would be like me trying to look up third party support for Jesus
actually existing and dying for the sins of the world. What a waste of
time!

I can go look them up ??? No place to look, is there David. I am told to test the spirits to see whether they are of God. My desire to verify the extraordinary claims of HH is certainly not out of line with scriptural injunction. I would expect Billy Graham to reference him somewhere. I would think Mordecai Ham would mention his name. I would expect to find some reference in Catholic literature. His PhD -- is it wrong for me to question these claims? (Keep in mind that I do not care where he earned the PhD -- just that he did as claimed.) An evangelist who converted 40,000 to 70,000 Jews should have a footnote somewhere in American historical annuals, to say the least. Thousands of hippies? What street preacher has ever had such success??? If it all be truth - only HH. And no mention of him anywhere. The historical record does not omit someone who was quietly successful at such a level of accomplishment. Why is it that he is the only HIGHLY successful street preacher without historical footnote? And why am I the bad guy for putting these questions to you expecting a real answer?

John S. wrote:
And if internet resources are of no account, the
positives are gone as well - and there is one
site that extolls his ministry.

I never meant to convey that internet resources are of no account, but
you certainly should not read one or two websites and then declare that
the man was a fraud! You need to check out what you read and consider
the bias of their presentation.

Here we go with that circular logic of yours. In this paragraph you tell me to "check out" what I read. In the former paragraph, you reducible that very process (That would be like looking up third party support for Jesus .")

Be swift to hear and slow to speak.

Easy for you to say. David, something is wrong with this HH mythology. Maybe nothing wrong with the man but the myth seems to be something very different. Perhaps Lindsey is not the fraud in all this? But something is soarly wrong with the story. Who are his disciples? Elsman and those who are influenced by him -- who else?

John

RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-05 Thread David Miller

John S. wrote:
 I have no problem admitting I am wrong about this 
 guy, but I really need something that is reliable 
 and verifiable.  

Are you admitting that you spoke about Hubert based upon something you
read on the internet, not based upon your personal experience with him?
I thought maybe you knew Hubert in your past.  Please clarify.

John S. wrote:
 If he was acceptable to Catholics as a street preacher.  
 well, that is more than unusual.  He would deserve the 
 kind of credit and reverence that DM obviously has for 
 this him.  

Hubert was not really a street preacher per se.  At first he was a
tent revivalist, and later he turned to campus preaching.  In any case,
are street preachers really ever accepted by anybody?  

Hubert's shoe-in with some of the popular people like Bill Bright, Billy
Graham, Ronald Reagan and the Pope was his boldness to break up
communist demonstrations in the name of Christ.  They recognized his
involvement with the Jesus People revival, but I don't think they really
understood it.  If you understand how politics works, it is real easy to
understand how they would honor Hubert at a certain time in history,
then forget about him the next year.  Well... except maybe Bill
Bright... Hubert told me that they remained buddies for many years.

John S. wrote:
 Incidently, there is a host of information about 
 Mordecia Ham on the net  --  absolutely nothing 
 verifiable about the good Doctor.  

Some men and women have established ministries and financial empires
that leave a legacy.  Hubert preached with some of these men and women,
such as Billy Sunday, Mordecai Ham, Bill Bright, Billy Graham, Kathryn
Khulman etc.  However, Hubert himself lived penniless.  He never even
learned to drive!  He was like a homeless man who lived from nickel to
nickel.  Elsman can probably tell us more about this than me.  Hubert
was truly one of a kind.  It seems like God broke the mold after he made
Hubert.  

Some more trivia:  Hubert won a freckle faced contest as a child and was
cast as Alphalfa in The Little Rascals.  

Some homework maybe for Lance:  Hubert told me that he published a
memory course back in the 1930's, but I have never been able to find it.
I would be very interested in it if you have a way to locate it.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-05 Thread ELSMANLAW

In a message dated 5/5/2004 3:20:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Some homework maybe for Lance: Hubert told me that he published a
memory course back in the 1930's, but I have never been able to find it.
I would be very interested in it if you have a way to locate it.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.


ALL:
 THE MEMORY COURSE WAS NEVER PUBLISHED. I KNOW THE SECRETS OF IT---VERY CLEVER, AS IT ALLOWED HUBERT TO MEMORIZE THE BIBLE.
 HEY, JUST TYPE IN "HOLY HUBERT LINDSEY" ON GOOGLE OR AOL (SAME) AND YOU WILL GET MUCH INFO.
 --JIM

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-05 Thread Dave







[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated
5/5/2004 3:20:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
  
  
Some homework maybe for Lance: Hubert told me that he published a
memory course back in the 1930's, but I have never been able to find it.
I would be very interested in it if you have a way to locate it.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

  
  
ALL:
 THE MEMORY COURSE WAS NEVER PUBLISHED. I KNOW THE SECRETS
OF IT---VERY CLEVER,
DAVEH: So Elsman, can you give us a brief explanation of how
he did it? Seems like it would be nice for any students of the Bible
to have a better handle on memorizing Scripture.
 AS IT ALLOWED
HUBERT TO MEMORIZE THE BIBLE.
 HEY, JUST TYPE IN "HOLY HUBERT LINDSEY" ON GOOGLE OR AOL
(SAME) AND YOU WILL GET MUCH INFO.
 --JIM

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
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things I find interesting,
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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-05 Thread Knpraise

In a message dated 5/5/2004 12:20:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Are you admitting that you spoke about Hubert based upon something you
read on the internet, not based upon your personal experience with him?
I thought maybe you knew Hubert in your past. Please clarify.


Sure. And you are admitting that there is nothing out there that verifies his associations, credentials, and evangelistic successes - right? And if internet resources are of no account, the positives are gone as well - and there is one site that extolls his ministry. 



John

[TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

2004-05-05 Thread Judy Taylor




I got this from a website Dave; there was some other 
stuff that didn't seem to accurate but this is the first
I've read of his "memory system" The website was 
that of another Street Preacher by the name of Metzger
Grace and Peace, judyt
+++

Hubert was always an auckward and backwards 
lad who could never remember a thing. Feeling the Lord's calling to preach on 
him at 15; He knew that he must retain knowledge in order to remember the Word 
of God; for the sake of his preaching. He prayed and asked the Lord to give him 
a better memory to remedy the situation. The Lord answered him in an unsuspected 
way. God gave Hubert a memory 
course. The Lord revealed to Hubert something in which the scientists would 
find out for themselves later in life and confirm to the world. 

The Lord revealed to Hubert to write everything down in 
three distinct colors: red, green, and blue.
Scientists would later discover that there are four major 
color cones in the human eye that help to stimulate the memory system of the 
human brain. Of course God already knew this! As a result Hubert, wrote down the 
Holy Scriptures in red, green, and blue; 5 times in each color, and quoted it 5 
times for each color. By this he 
memorized the New Testament of the Holy Scriptures in six months. 
++
From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 5/5/2004 3:20:18 AM 
  Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  Some homework maybe 
for Lance: Hubert told me that he published amemory course back in 
the 1930's, but I have never been able to find it.I would be very 
interested in it if you have a way to locate it.Peace be with 
you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, 
  Florida.ALL: 
  THE MEMORY COURSE WAS NEVER PUBLISHED. I KNOW THE SECRETS OF IT---VERY 
  CLEVER,DAVEH: So Elsman, can 
you give us a brief explanation of how he did it? Seems like it would be 
nice for any students of the Bible to have a better handle on memorizing 
Scripture.
AS IT ALLOWED HUBERT TO 
  MEMORIZE THE 
  BIBLE. 
  HEY, JUST TYPE IN "HOLY HUBERT LINDSEY" ON GOOGLE OR AOL (SAME) AND YOU WILL 
  GET MUCH 
  INFO. 
  --JIM-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

2004-05-05 Thread Dave





DAVEH: Thanx Judy..I find that very interesting. It apparently
took Hubert a lot of effort to memorize.it wasn't just a natural
talent. To memorize the NT in a half year must have required a lot of
time spent repeating this procedure. I'll be curious to hear if Elsman
learned any more secrets related to this technique.

Judy Taylor wrote:

  
  
  
  I got this from a website Dave; there was
some other stuff that didn't seem to accurate but this is the first
  I've read of his "memory system" The
website was that of another Street Preacher by the name of Metzger
  Grace and Peace, judyt
  +++
  
  Hubert was always an auckward
and backwards lad who could never remember a thing. Feeling the Lord's
calling to preach on him at 15; He knew that he must retain knowledge
in order to remember the Word of God; for the sake of his preaching. He
prayed and asked the Lord to give him a better memory to remedy the
situation. The Lord answered him in an unsuspected way. God gave Hubert a memory course.
The Lord revealed to Hubert something in which the scientists would
find out for themselves later in life and confirm to the world. 
  
  The Lord revealed to
Hubert to write everything down in three distinct colors: red, green,
and blue.
  
  Scientists would later
discover that there are four major color cones in the human eye that
help to stimulate the memory system of the human brain. Of course God
already knew this! As a result Hubert, wrote down the Holy Scriptures
in red, green, and blue; 5 times in each color, and quoted it 5 times
for each color. By
this he memorized the New Testament of the Holy Scriptures in six
months. 
  ++
  


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
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If you wish to receive
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JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

2004-05-05 Thread ELSMANLAW

In a message dated 5/5/2004 10:31:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


DAVEH: Thanx Judy..I find that very interesting. It apparently took Hubert a lot of effort to memorize.it wasn't just a natural talent. To memorize the NT in a half year must have required a lot of time spent repeating this procedure. I'll be curious to hear if Elsman learned any more secrets related to this technique.


NOT THAT A LAWYER CAN REVEAL. SORRY. I ONLY TATTLE ON THAT BUTTERBALL FRAUD.
 ---ELSMANSTEIN

RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-05 Thread David Miller

John S. wrote:
 ... you are admitting that there is nothing out 
 there that verifies his associations, credentials, 
 and evangelistic successes - right?   

No, I am not admitting that.  You can go look for them if you want.  I
knew the man, so I don't waste time looking up stuff like that.  That
would be like me trying to look up third party support for Jesus
actually existing and dying for the sins of the world.  What a waste of
time!

John S. wrote:
 And if internet resources are of no account, the 
 positives are gone as well  - and there is one 
 site that extolls his ministry.  

I never meant to convey that internet resources are of no account, but
you certainly should not read one or two websites and then declare that
the man was a fraud!  You need to check out what you read and consider
the bias of their presentation.  Be swift to hear and slow to speak.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-05 Thread David Miller

John S. wrote:
 I am startled at just how little information there 
 is on a man who was honored by Catholics, saved 40,000 
 (or it is 70,000) Jews, thousands and thousands of hippies  
 -  assisted Billy Graham although mention of his work 
 is hard to impossible to find.   Something wrong with 
 this picture.   

I'm not surprised by it.  News is fleeting.  I've been on the front page
of the newspapers and the top story on network television news many
times.  Yet, you would have trouble digging up much on me.  Hubert was
most active before there were any computers at all.  Furthermore, he did
not enter into career building and empire building that so many others
do.  

John S. wrote:
 I can find probably 10 times as much verifiable information 
 about Stroop than I can find about Ham's chief assistant.  

To my knowledge, Hubert was never Ham's chief assistant.  These guys
just join up for weeks at a time to preach revival.  Hubert thought it
was cool that Billy Graham got saved at a crusade where he sat on the
platform and preached.  After two weeks of Mordecai Ham, Hubert Lindsey
(he was not yet known as Holy Hubert), and I forget who else, Billy
Graham dedicated his life to Christ.  Praise the Lord!  Why do you want
to try and prove it really happened or prove that it didn't happen?
What's the big deal?

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey's Memory Course

2004-05-05 Thread Dave





DAVEH: I don't understand, Elsman..??? What's the problem with
revealing a few techniques you might know that would benefit other
students of the Bible? Did Hubert swear you to secrecy? (And if
so.why?)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated
5/5/2004 10:31:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
  
  
DAVEH: Thanx Judy..I find that very interesting. It apparently
took Hubert a lot of effort to memorize.it wasn't just a natural
talent. To memorize the NT in a half year must have required a lot of
time spent repeating this procedure. I'll be curious to hear if Elsman
learned any more secrets related to this technique.

  
  
NOT THAT A LAWYER CAN REVEAL. SORRY. I ONLY TATTLE ON THAT
BUTTERBALL FRAUD.
 ---ELSMANSTEIN

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

David: Assuming this Hubert to have played a formative role in what I've
been reading from you these past weeks(your biblical and theological
statements) perhaps I (we) need to understand more of his life and work.
I've already been told where I may obtain audio so I'll look into it. Lance
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: May 03, 2004 16:58
Subject: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

 Judy wrote:
  Hubert Lindsey sounds insane

 No, he was not insane, and never a braver man would you ever meet.

 John S. wrote:
  Nothing holy about Hubert -- a man who claim
  to have converted Bill Graham,

 Hubert never said that he personally, single-handedly, converted Billy
 Graham, if that is what you mean.  Hubert was preaching a revival with
 Mordecai Ham, when Billy Graham responded to an altar call for salvation
 at the age of 16.  Do you have some information that would repudiate
 this?

 I checked out Hubert's story in Billy Graham's book, Just As I Am,
 where Graham tells the whole story of his conversion at these meetings.
 It confirms just about everything in Hubert's testimony about it.  He
 mentions Modecai Ham by name, just as we might expect from Hubert's
 account.  I don't remember Graham mentioning Hubert Lindsey by name in
 his book, but that is not unusual to give only the primary evangelist
 the recognition.  Billy Graham simply subtitles the chapter with,
 Itinerant Evangelists.  Hubert was one of those evangelists who
 preached this revival with Mordecai Ham where Billy Graham was
 converted.  If you read the account from Graham, it sounds like Hubert's
 style of preaching all the way.  He describes the sermons as being about
 sin, judgment and Hell.  Billy Graham wrote, What was slowly dawning on
 me during those weeks was the miserable realization that I did not know
 Jesus Christ for myself.  I could not depend on my parents' faith.  At
 the time, Billy Graham was a Presbyterian who had been baptized as an
 infant.  Later, Billy Graham writes, For all my previous religious
 upbringing and church activity, I believe that that was the moment I
 made my real commitment to Jesus Christ.

 So Hubert spoke the truth about Billy Graham's conversion.  Why do you
 call Hubert a liar?

 John S. wrote:
  ... converted over 40.000 Jews and thousands of
  hippies and conducted services at a 2000 member
  church  -- which in fact was his service garage.

 His service garage?  What are you talking about?  I think you are mixing
 up information from various sources.

 Did you know Hubert?  Are you reporting some first hand information
 here, or gossip that you obtained off the internet?

 John S. wrote:
  A complete impostor, full of vile and hatred.
  A reprobate in the truest sense of the word.

 John, I am truly shocked that you would say something like this.  Hubert
 was a spiritual father to me.  I guess that does not surprise you.
 Maybe you think the same thing about me.

 Hubert was one of the most loving men I have ever known.  He was
 anything but full of vile and hatred.  Not even his enemies ever
 characterized him like this.  He was beat up hundreds of times for
 preaching Christ, shot, stabbed, you name it.  Hubert was arrested 100
 times for preaching Christ and never convicted of a crime.  He always
 turned the other cheek and loved his neighbor.  Through a broken jaw, he
 would tell his attackers that Jesus loved them and he did too.  There
 were many men who were converted through Hubert's unquenched love for
 them, and they are preaching the gospel today.

 Peace be with you.
 David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey




JT: And you folks rise up en massedenouncing 
Polanyi, Torrance and Capon?? Tradition rears its head again. Soon, I'm 
thinking, y'all gonna acknowledge the obvious. Lance

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: May 03, 2004 17:35
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
  Lindsey
  
  From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Judy wrote:Hubert Lindsey sounds insane 
  
  No, he was not insane, and never a braver man would you ever meet.
  
  jt: God gives us the power to do whatever we are 
  called to. Hubert'spreaching soundsa little "out there" I 
  found the following on "The page of anxiety" on the 
  internet: "Dr. Holy Hubert Lindsey." 
  People would call in and ask the Doctor questions about the Bible, or to argue 
  about Tongues, capitol punishment, salvation, and the like. Dr. Lindsey would 
  then pronounce judgment, not just on the matter at hand, but also on the 
  caller, Christendom, and society in general. Not one to mince words, The 
  Doctor had apparently reached a point his life and career where he cared 
  little what anyone thought of him or his message, and was quick to point out 
  the callers' motives, spiritual condition, intellectual capacity or sexual 
  orientation. Why do you and the Street 
  Preachers appear to revere Hubert so much? Almost like a present day 
  icon. What about Corrie Ten Boom? Was she out of God's will? A 
  rebellious woman? She wasout speaking/teaching and was not under 
  submission to any man. Her messages lifted up Jesus andwere not 
  personally judgmental/demeaning (itis the ministry of the Holy Spirit to 
  convict of sin); she didn't condemn even when confronted with the man who 
  executed her sister in a German Prison Camp when he came fwd in one of her 
  meetings to receive Christ.
  
  John S. wrote:Nothing holy about Hubert -- a man who claimto 
  have converted Bill Graham, 
  
  Hubert never said that he personally, single-handedly, converted Billy 
  Graham, if that is what you mean. Hubert was preaching a revival with 
  Mordecai Ham, when Billy Graham responded to an altar call for salvation at 
  the age of 16. Do you have some information that would repudiate 
  this?I checked out Hubert's story in Billy Graham's book, "Just As 
  I Am,"where Graham tells the whole story of his conversion at these 
  meetings. It confirms just about everything in Hubert's testimony about 
  it. He mentions Modecai Ham by name, just as we might expect from 
  Hubert's account. I don't remember Graham mentioning Hubert Lindsey by 
  name in his book, but that is not unusual to give only the primary evangelist 
  the recognition. Billy Graham simply subtitles the chapter with, 
  "Itinerant Evangelists." Hubert was one of those evangelists who 
  preached this revival with Mordecai Ham where Billy Graham was 
  converted. If you read the account from Graham, it sounds like Hubert's 
  style of preaching all the way. He describes the sermons as being about 
  sin, judgment and Hell. Billy Graham wrote, "What was slowly dawning on 
  me during those weeks was the miserable realization that I did not 
  knowJesus Christ for myself. I could not depend on my parents' 
  faith." At the time, Billy Graham was a Presbyterian who had been 
  baptized as an infant. Later, Billy Graham writes, "For all my previous 
  religious upbringing and church activity, I believe that that was the moment I 
  made my real commitment to Jesus Christ." So Hubert spoke the truth about 
  Billy Graham's conversion. Why do you call Hubert a liar?
  
  John S. wrote: ... converted over 40.000 Jews and thousands of 
  hippies and conducted services at a 2000 memberchurch -- which 
  in fact was his service garage.
  
  jt: The above is from the internet. His Church 
  in the 1980's was apparently a converted service garage andthe number of 
  Jews and hippies converted under his ministry isquoted on the internet 
  as from his own mouth.I know it's the web of 
  a million lies but reports about Hubert's ministry are remarkably similar and 
  the same kind of thing continues with Jed Smock, Daniel, Ruben and Spingola 
  even to the point of fist fights. What kind of a spirit is that? 
  
  
  Did you know Hubert? Are you reporting some first hand information 
  here, or gossip that you obtained off the internet?
  
  John S. wrote:A complete impostor, full of vile and 
  hatred.A reprobate in the truest sense of the word. 
  
  John, I am truly shocked that you would say something like this. 
  Hubert was a spiritual father to me. I guess that does not surprise you. 
  Maybe you think the same thing about me. Hubert was one of the most 
  loving men I have ever known. He was anything but full of vile and 
  hatred. Not even his enemies ever characterized him like this. He 
  was beat up hundreds of times for preaching Christ, shot, stabbed, you name

[TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-04 Thread Judy Taylor




Hey Lance I'm not a Holy Hubert follower; too many 
contradictions and his style too judgmental. IMO he is more of a cultural 
icon. I do appreciate the ministry of the late Corrie Ten Boom 
but she did not teach doctrine so much asher 
life testified to the grace of God in such massive darkness. 
judyt

From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JT: And you folks rise up en massedenouncing 
Polanyi, Torrance and Capon?? Tradition rears its head again. Soon, I'm 
thinking, y'all gonna acknowledge the obvious. Lance

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: May 03, 2004 17:35
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
  Lindsey
  
  From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Judy wrote:Hubert Lindsey sounds insane 
  
  No, he was not insane, and never a braver man would you ever meet.
  
  jt: God gives us the power to do whatever we are 
  called to. Hubert'spreaching soundsa little "out there" I 
  found the following on "The page of anxiety" on the 
  internet: "Dr. Holy Hubert Lindsey." 
  People would call in and ask the Doctor questions about the Bible, or to argue 
  about Tongues, capitol punishment, salvation, and the like. Dr. Lindsey would 
  then pronounce judgment, not just on the matter at hand, but also on the 
  caller, Christendom, and society in general. Not one to mince words, The 
  Doctor had apparently reached a point his life and career where he cared 
  little what anyone thought of him or his message, and was quick to point out 
  the callers' motives, spiritual condition, intellectual capacity or sexual 
  orientation. Why do you and the Street 
  Preachers appear to revere Hubert so much? Almost like a present day 
  icon. What about Corrie Ten Boom? Was she out of God's will? A 
  rebellious woman? She wasout speaking/teaching and was not under 
  submission to any man. Her messages lifted up Jesus andwere not 
  personally judgmental/demeaning (itis the ministry of the Holy Spirit to 
  convict of sin); she didn't condemn even when confronted with the man who 
  executed her sister in a German Prison Camp when he came fwd in one of her 
  meetings to receive Christ.
  
  John S. wrote:Nothing holy about Hubert -- a man who claimto 
  have converted Bill Graham, 
  
  Hubert never said that he personally, single-handedly, converted Billy 
  Graham, if that is what you mean. Hubert was preaching a revival with 
  Mordecai Ham, when Billy Graham responded to an altar call for salvation at 
  the age of 16. Do you have some information that would repudiate 
  this?I checked out Hubert's story in Billy Graham's book, "Just As 
  I Am,"where Graham tells the whole story of his conversion at these 
  meetings. It confirms just about everything in Hubert's testimony about 
  it. He mentions Modecai Ham by name, just as we might expect from 
  Hubert's account. I don't remember Graham mentioning Hubert Lindsey by 
  name in his book, but that is not unusual to give only the primary evangelist 
  the recognition. Billy Graham simply subtitles the chapter with, 
  "Itinerant Evangelists." Hubert was one of those evangelists who 
  preached this revival with Mordecai Ham where Billy Graham was 
  converted. If you read the account from Graham, it sounds like Hubert's 
  style of preaching all the way. He describes the sermons as being about 
  sin, judgment and Hell. Billy Graham wrote, "What was slowly dawning on 
  me during those weeks was the miserable realization that I did not 
  knowJesus Christ for myself. I could not depend on my parents' 
  faith." At the time, Billy Graham was a Presbyterian who had been 
  baptized as an infant. Later, Billy Graham writes, "For all my previous 
  religious upbringing and church activity, I believe that that was the moment I 
  made my real commitment to Jesus Christ." So Hubert spoke the truth about 
  Billy Graham's conversion. Why do you call Hubert a liar?
  
  John S. wrote: ... converted over 40.000 Jews and thousands of 
  hippies and conducted services at a 2000 memberchurch -- which 
  in fact was his service garage.
  
  jt: The above is from the internet. His Church 
  in the 1980's was apparently a converted service garage andthe number of 
  Jews and hippies converted under his ministry isquoted on the internet 
  as from his own mouth.I know it's the web of 
  a million lies but reports about Hubert's ministry are remarkably similar and 
  the same kind of thing continues with Jed Smock, Daniel, Ruben and Spingola 
  even to the point of fist fights. What kind of a spirit is that? 
  
  
  Did you know Hubert? Are you reporting some first hand information 
  here, or gossip that you obtained off the internet?
  
  John S. wrote:A complete impostor, full of vile and 
  hatred.A reprobate in the truest sense of the word. 
  
  John, I am truly shocked that you would say something like this. 
  Hubert was

[TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-04 Thread Judy Taylor




I should add that I had never heard of Holy Hubert 
Lindsey until a young pastor at a church I went to spoke of him.
He (like some of the men on TT) seemed in awe of him 
because of the beatings and abuse he had undergone at Berkley so I got the book 
"Bless Your Dirty Heart"years ago to see what all the fuss was 
about. Sad thing about it is that his own heart was probably not where it 
should have been, but times were tough in the 60's. I guess Hubertmade his mark in his generation andGod 
is the judge. But why sit at Hubert's feet when we can sit at the feet of 
the Master Himself?

Hey Lance I'm not a Holy Hubert follower; too many 
contradictions and his style too judgmental. IMO he is more of a cultural 
icon. I do appreciate the ministry of the late Corrie Ten Boom 
but she did not teach doctrine so much asher 
life testified to the grace of God in such massive darkness. 
judyt

From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JT: And you folks rise up en massedenouncing 
Polanyi, Torrance and Capon?? Tradition rears its head again. Soon, I'm 
thinking, y'all gonna acknowledge the obvious. Lance

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: May 03, 2004 17:35
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
  Lindsey
  
  From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Judy wrote:Hubert Lindsey sounds insane 
  
  No, he was not insane, and never a braver man would you ever meet.
  
  jt: God gives us the power to do whatever we are 
  called to. Hubert'spreaching soundsa little "out there" I 
  found the following on "The page of anxiety" on the 
  internet: "Dr. Holy Hubert Lindsey." 
  People would call in and ask the Doctor questions about the Bible, or to argue 
  about Tongues, capitol punishment, salvation, and the like. Dr. Lindsey would 
  then pronounce judgment, not just on the matter at hand, but also on the 
  caller, Christendom, and society in general. Not one to mince words, The 
  Doctor had apparently reached a point his life and career where he cared 
  little what anyone thought of him or his message, and was quick to point out 
  the callers' motives, spiritual condition, intellectual capacity or sexual 
  orientation. Why do you and the Street 
  Preachers appear to revere Hubert so much? Almost like a present day 
  icon. What about Corrie Ten Boom? Was she out of God's will? A 
  rebellious woman? She wasout speaking/teaching and was not under 
  submission to any man. Her messages lifted up Jesus andwere not 
  personally judgmental/demeaning (itis the ministry of the Holy Spirit to 
  convict of sin); she didn't condemn even when confronted with the man who 
  executed her sister in a German Prison Camp when he came fwd in one of her 
  meetings to receive Christ.
  
  John S. wrote:Nothing holy about Hubert -- a man who claimto 
  have converted Bill Graham, 
  
  Hubert never said that he personally, single-handedly, converted Billy 
  Graham, if that is what you mean. Hubert was preaching a revival with 
  Mordecai Ham, when Billy Graham responded to an altar call for salvation at 
  the age of 16. Do you have some information that would repudiate 
  this?I checked out Hubert's story in Billy Graham's book, "Just As 
  I Am,"where Graham tells the whole story of his conversion at these 
  meetings. It confirms just about everything in Hubert's testimony about 
  it. He mentions Modecai Ham by name, just as we might expect from 
  Hubert's account. I don't remember Graham mentioning Hubert Lindsey by 
  name in his book, but that is not unusual to give only the primary evangelist 
  the recognition. Billy Graham simply subtitles the chapter with, 
  "Itinerant Evangelists." Hubert was one of those evangelists who 
  preached this revival with Mordecai Ham where Billy Graham was 
  converted. If you read the account from Graham, it sounds like Hubert's 
  style of preaching all the way. He describes the sermons as being about 
  sin, judgment and Hell. Billy Graham wrote, "What was slowly dawning on 
  me during those weeks was the miserable realization that I did not 
  knowJesus Christ for myself. I could not depend on my parents' 
  faith." At the time, Billy Graham was a Presbyterian who had been 
  baptized as an infant. Later, Billy Graham writes, "For all my previous 
  religious upbringing and church activity, I believe that that was the moment I 
  made my real commitment to Jesus Christ." So Hubert spoke the truth about 
  Billy Graham's conversion. Why do you call Hubert a liar?
  
  John S. wrote: ... converted over 40.000 Jews and thousands of 
  hippies and conducted services at a 2000 memberchurch -- which 
  in fact was his service garage.
  
  jt: The above is from the internet. His Church 
  in the 1980's was apparently a converted service garage andthe number of 
  Jews and hippies converted under his ministry isquoted on the internet

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey




Judy: I was once in a YP group when she (Ten Boom) 
came to tell her story. I'll never forget it or her.Lance 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: May 04, 2004 06:44
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
  Lindsey
  
  Hey Lance I'm not a Holy Hubert follower; too many 
  contradictions and his style too judgmental. IMO he is more of a cultural 
  icon. I do appreciate the ministry of the late Corrie Ten Boom 
  but she did not teach doctrine so much asher 
  life testified to the grace of God in such massive darkness. 
  judyt
  
  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  JT: And you folks rise up en 
  massedenouncing Polanyi, Torrance and Capon?? Tradition rears its head 
  again. Soon, I'm thinking, y'all gonna acknowledge the obvious. 
  Lance
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: May 03, 2004 17:35
Subject: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
Lindsey

From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Judy wrote:Hubert Lindsey sounds insane 

No, he was not insane, and never a braver man would you ever 
meet.

jt: God gives us the power to do whatever we are 
called to. Hubert'spreaching soundsa little "out there" I 
found the following on "The page of anxiety" on the 
internet: "Dr. Holy Hubert 
Lindsey." People would call in and ask the Doctor questions about the Bible, 
or to argue about Tongues, capitol punishment, salvation, and the like. Dr. 
Lindsey would then pronounce judgment, not just on the matter at hand, but 
also on the caller, Christendom, and society in general. Not one to mince 
words, The Doctor had apparently reached a point his life and career where 
he cared little what anyone thought of him or his message, and was quick to 
point out the callers' motives, spiritual condition, intellectual capacity 
or sexual orientation. Why do you and 
the Street Preachers appear to revere Hubert so much? Almost like a 
present day icon. What about Corrie Ten Boom? Was she out of God's 
will? A rebellious woman? She wasout speaking/teaching and 
was not under submission to any man. Her messages lifted up Jesus 
andwere not personally judgmental/demeaning (itis the ministry 
of the Holy Spirit to convict of sin); she didn't condemn even when 
confronted with the man who executed her sister in a German Prison Camp when 
he came fwd in one of her meetings to receive Christ.

John S. wrote:Nothing holy about Hubert -- a man who 
claimto have converted Bill Graham, 

Hubert never said that he personally, single-handedly, converted Billy 
Graham, if that is what you mean. Hubert was preaching a revival with 
Mordecai Ham, when Billy Graham responded to an altar call for salvation at 
the age of 16. Do you have some information that would repudiate 
this?I checked out Hubert's story in Billy Graham's book, "Just 
As I Am,"where Graham tells the whole story of his conversion at these 
meetings. It confirms just about everything in Hubert's testimony 
about it. He mentions Modecai Ham by name, just as we might expect 
from Hubert's account. I don't remember Graham mentioning Hubert 
Lindsey by name in his book, but that is not unusual to give only the 
primary evangelist the recognition. Billy Graham simply subtitles the 
chapter with, "Itinerant Evangelists." Hubert was one of those 
evangelists who preached this revival with Mordecai Ham where Billy Graham 
was converted. If you read the account from Graham, it sounds like 
Hubert's style of preaching all the way. He describes the sermons as 
being about sin, judgment and Hell. Billy Graham wrote, "What was 
slowly dawning on me during those weeks was the miserable realization that I 
did not knowJesus Christ for myself. I could not depend on my 
parents' faith." At the time, Billy Graham was a Presbyterian who had 
been baptized as an infant. Later, Billy Graham writes, "For all my 
previous religious upbringing and church activity, I believe that that was 
the moment I made my real commitment to Jesus Christ." So Hubert spoke the 
truth about Billy Graham's conversion. Why do you call Hubert a 
liar?

John S. wrote: ... converted over 40.000 Jews and thousands of 
hippies and conducted services at a 2000 memberchurch -- 
which in fact was his service garage.

jt: The above is from the internet. His 
Church in the 1980's was apparently a converted service garage andthe 
number of Jews and hippies converted under his ministry isquoted on 
the internet as from his own mouth.I know 
it's the web of a million lies but reports about Hubert's ministry are 
remarkably similar and the same kind of

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey




Christianity is indeed offensive to the natural 
mind; and yet it is often made offensive by its representatives for the wrong 
reasons. (Colin Gunton in The One, The Three and The Many) Lance

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: May 04, 2004 06:57
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
  Lindsey
  
  I should add that I had never heard of Holy Hubert 
  Lindsey until a young pastor at a church I went to spoke of him.
  He (like some of the men on TT) seemed in awe of him 
  because of the beatings and abuse he had undergone at Berkley so I got the 
  book "Bless Your Dirty Heart"years ago to see what all the fuss was 
  about. Sad thing about it is that his own heart was probably not where 
  it should have been, but times were tough in the 60's. I guess Hubertmade his mark in his generation andGod 
  is the judge. But why sit at Hubert's feet when we can sit at the feet 
  of the Master Himself?
  
  Hey Lance I'm not a Holy Hubert follower; too many 
  contradictions and his style too judgmental. IMO he is more of a cultural 
  icon. I do appreciate the ministry of the late Corrie Ten Boom 
  but she did not teach doctrine so much asher 
  life testified to the grace of God in such massive darkness. 
  judyt
  
  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  JT: And you folks rise up en 
  massedenouncing Polanyi, Torrance and Capon?? Tradition rears its head 
  again. Soon, I'm thinking, y'all gonna acknowledge the obvious. 
  Lance
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: May 03, 2004 17:35
    Subject: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
Lindsey

From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Judy wrote:Hubert Lindsey sounds insane 

No, he was not insane, and never a braver man would you ever 
meet.

jt: God gives us the power to do whatever we are 
called to. Hubert'spreaching soundsa little "out there" I 
found the following on "The page of anxiety" on the 
internet: "Dr. Holy Hubert 
Lindsey." People would call in and ask the Doctor questions about the Bible, 
or to argue about Tongues, capitol punishment, salvation, and the like. Dr. 
Lindsey would then pronounce judgment, not just on the matter at hand, but 
also on the caller, Christendom, and society in general. Not one to mince 
words, The Doctor had apparently reached a point his life and career where 
he cared little what anyone thought of him or his message, and was quick to 
point out the callers' motives, spiritual condition, intellectual capacity 
or sexual orientation. Why do you and 
the Street Preachers appear to revere Hubert so much? Almost like a 
present day icon. What about Corrie Ten Boom? Was she out of God's 
will? A rebellious woman? She wasout speaking/teaching and 
was not under submission to any man. Her messages lifted up Jesus 
andwere not personally judgmental/demeaning (itis the ministry 
of the Holy Spirit to convict of sin); she didn't condemn even when 
confronted with the man who executed her sister in a German Prison Camp when 
he came fwd in one of her meetings to receive Christ.

John S. wrote:Nothing holy about Hubert -- a man who 
claimto have converted Bill Graham, 

Hubert never said that he personally, single-handedly, converted Billy 
Graham, if that is what you mean. Hubert was preaching a revival with 
Mordecai Ham, when Billy Graham responded to an altar call for salvation at 
the age of 16. Do you have some information that would repudiate 
this?I checked out Hubert's story in Billy Graham's book, "Just 
As I Am,"where Graham tells the whole story of his conversion at these 
meetings. It confirms just about everything in Hubert's testimony 
about it. He mentions Modecai Ham by name, just as we might expect 
from Hubert's account. I don't remember Graham mentioning Hubert 
Lindsey by name in his book, but that is not unusual to give only the 
primary evangelist the recognition. Billy Graham simply subtitles the 
chapter with, "Itinerant Evangelists." Hubert was one of those 
evangelists who preached this revival with Mordecai Ham where Billy Graham 
was converted. If you read the account from Graham, it sounds like 
Hubert's style of preaching all the way. He describes the sermons as 
being about sin, judgment and Hell. Billy Graham wrote, "What was 
slowly dawning on me during those weeks was the miserable realization that I 
did not knowJesus Christ for myself. I could not depend on my 
parents' faith." At the time, Billy Graham was a Presbyterian who had 
been baptized as an infant. Later, Billy Graham writes, "For all my 
previous religious upbringing and church activity, I believe that that was

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey




Any of y'all ever see the move "Delierance" with 
Reynolds  Voight? There are times when I read SOME posts by SOME TT 
participants that I think I hear a banjo playing somewhere in the background. 
Lance

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: May 04, 2004 06:57
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
  Lindsey
  
  I should add that I had never heard of Holy Hubert 
  Lindsey until a young pastor at a church I went to spoke of him.
  He (like some of the men on TT) seemed in awe of him 
  because of the beatings and abuse he had undergone at Berkley so I got the 
  book "Bless Your Dirty Heart"years ago to see what all the fuss was 
  about. Sad thing about it is that his own heart was probably not where 
  it should have been, but times were tough in the 60's. I guess Hubertmade his mark in his generation andGod 
  is the judge. But why sit at Hubert's feet when we can sit at the feet 
  of the Master Himself?
  
  Hey Lance I'm not a Holy Hubert follower; too many 
  contradictions and his style too judgmental. IMO he is more of a cultural 
  icon. I do appreciate the ministry of the late Corrie Ten Boom 
  but she did not teach doctrine so much asher 
  life testified to the grace of God in such massive darkness. 
  judyt
  
  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  JT: And you folks rise up en 
  massedenouncing Polanyi, Torrance and Capon?? Tradition rears its head 
  again. Soon, I'm thinking, y'all gonna acknowledge the obvious. 
  Lance
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: May 03, 2004 17:35
Subject: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
Lindsey

From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Judy wrote:Hubert Lindsey sounds insane 

No, he was not insane, and never a braver man would you ever 
meet.

jt: God gives us the power to do whatever we are 
called to. Hubert'spreaching soundsa little "out there" I 
found the following on "The page of anxiety" on the 
internet: "Dr. Holy Hubert 
Lindsey." People would call in and ask the Doctor questions about the Bible, 
or to argue about Tongues, capitol punishment, salvation, and the like. Dr. 
Lindsey would then pronounce judgment, not just on the matter at hand, but 
also on the caller, Christendom, and society in general. Not one to mince 
words, The Doctor had apparently reached a point his life and career where 
he cared little what anyone thought of him or his message, and was quick to 
point out the callers' motives, spiritual condition, intellectual capacity 
or sexual orientation. Why do you and 
the Street Preachers appear to revere Hubert so much? Almost like a 
present day icon. What about Corrie Ten Boom? Was she out of God's 
will? A rebellious woman? She wasout speaking/teaching and 
was not under submission to any man. Her messages lifted up Jesus 
andwere not personally judgmental/demeaning (itis the ministry 
of the Holy Spirit to convict of sin); she didn't condemn even when 
confronted with the man who executed her sister in a German Prison Camp when 
he came fwd in one of her meetings to receive Christ.

John S. wrote:Nothing holy about Hubert -- a man who 
claimto have converted Bill Graham, 

Hubert never said that he personally, single-handedly, converted Billy 
Graham, if that is what you mean. Hubert was preaching a revival with 
Mordecai Ham, when Billy Graham responded to an altar call for salvation at 
the age of 16. Do you have some information that would repudiate 
this?I checked out Hubert's story in Billy Graham's book, "Just 
As I Am,"where Graham tells the whole story of his conversion at these 
meetings. It confirms just about everything in Hubert's testimony 
about it. He mentions Modecai Ham by name, just as we might expect 
from Hubert's account. I don't remember Graham mentioning Hubert 
Lindsey by name in his book, but that is not unusual to give only the 
primary evangelist the recognition. Billy Graham simply subtitles the 
chapter with, "Itinerant Evangelists." Hubert was one of those 
evangelists who preached this revival with Mordecai Ham where Billy Graham 
was converted. If you read the account from Graham, it sounds like 
Hubert's style of preaching all the way. He describes the sermons as 
being about sin, judgment and Hell. Billy Graham wrote, "What was 
slowly dawning on me during those weeks was the miserable realization that I 
did not knowJesus Christ for myself. I could not depend on my 
parents' faith." At the time, Billy Graham was a Presbyterian who had 
been baptized as an infant. Later, Billy Graham writes, "For all my 
previous religious upbringing and church activity, I believe

RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-04 Thread David Miller

Lance wrote:
 I've already been told where I may obtain audio 
 so I'll look into it.

I hope you mean going to Rick Roehm to get some CD's of Hubert's sermons
rather than that website that is against Hubert.  Going to that website
that John S. recommended is like going to the democratic party to find
out about George Bush.  Don't believe everything you hear there.

Hubert was credited by many with being the focal point of the Jesus
People Movement on the West Coast in the late 1960's.  In other words,
some credit him with that revival.  Of course, God really is the one who
does such, but Hubert was used by God in fomenting that work of God.

Hubert is going to be a tough one to learn about.  He did not build a
personal empire like many ministers.  He was not a writer like those who
have left us a legacy.  Although he earned a Ph.D., he never flaunted it
and nobody I knew called him Doctor Lindsey.  He was just Hubert.  He
was like the apostles of Christ who went down in history without us
knowing much of what they did, those apostles who left us no writings,
like Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Lebbaeus, and Simon Zelotes.  His
testimony was his life, and it greatly touched those who were blessed to
have encountered him.
 
Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-04 Thread David Miller

Judy wrote:
 I do appreciate the ministry of the late Corrie Ten 
 Boom but she did not teach doctrine so much as her 
 life testified to the grace of God in such massive 
 darkness.

I met Corrie before too, but Hubert affected my life much more.  Nothing
against Corrie.  She was a sweet woman.

Kathryn Khulman affected my life much more than Corrie did.  She was a
truly humble and fully dedicated and consecrated person.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

David: Ph.D. in what field of study? Lance
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: May 04, 2004 08:31
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

 Lance wrote:
  I've already been told where I may obtain audio
  so I'll look into it.

 I hope you mean going to Rick Roehm to get some CD's of Hubert's sermons
 rather than that website that is against Hubert.  Going to that website
 that John S. recommended is like going to the democratic party to find
 out about George Bush.  Don't believe everything you hear there.

 Hubert was credited by many with being the focal point of the Jesus
 People Movement on the West Coast in the late 1960's.  In other words,
 some credit him with that revival.  Of course, God really is the one who
 does such, but Hubert was used by God in fomenting that work of God.

 Hubert is going to be a tough one to learn about.  He did not build a
 personal empire like many ministers.  He was not a writer like those who
 have left us a legacy.  Although he earned a Ph.D., he never flaunted it
 and nobody I knew called him Doctor Lindsey.  He was just Hubert.  He
 was like the apostles of Christ who went down in history without us
 knowing much of what they did, those apostles who left us no writings,
 like Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Lebbaeus, and Simon Zelotes.  His
 testimony was his life, and it greatly touched those who were blessed to
 have encountered him.

 Peace be with you.
 David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

 --
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know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
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Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey


I am interested as well. What DM wrote below specificial and in regard to Lindsey is a statement of "fact" base entirely upon surmise -- as near as I can see. Grahams book book confirms "just about" everything in Hubmert's testimony but without mention of Hubert by name - but the tyle of preaching by Ham is the same as Lindsey, so he must have been there. I have no problem admitting I am wrong about this guy, but I really need something that is reliable and verifiable. If he was acceptable to Catholics as a street preacher. well, that is more than unusual. He would deserve the kind of credit and reverence that DM obviously has for this him. Incidently, there is a host of information about Mordecia Ham on the net -- absolutely nothing verifiable about the good Doctor. In fact, the only information about Lindsey I can find wants me to pay for it -- kind of like the money changers of old. The only positive information I can find is on a site that supports the Toronto Vineyard Church -- not a good reference from my point of view (and I am pentecostle). 

John



In a message dated 5/4/2004 2:21:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

David: Assuming this Hubert to have played a formative role in what I've
been reading from you these past weeks(your biblical and theological
statements) perhaps I (we) need to understand more of his life and work.
I've already been told where I may obtain audio so I'll look into it. Lance
- Original Message - 
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: May 03, 2004 16:58
Subject: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey


Judy wrote:
Hubert Lindsey sounds insane

No, he was not insane, and never a braver man would you ever meet.

John S. wrote:
Nothing holy about Hubert -- a man who claim
to have converted Bill Graham,

Hubert never said that he personally, single-handedly, converted Billy
Graham, if that is what you mean. Hubert was preaching a revival with
Mordecai Ham, when Billy Graham responded to an altar call for salvation
at the age of 16. Do you have some information that would repudiate
this?

I checked out Hubert's story in Billy Graham's book, "Just As I Am,"
where Graham tells the whole story of his conversion at these meetings.
It confirms just about everything in Hubert's testimony about it. He
mentions Modecai Ham by name, just as we might expect from Hubert's
account. I don't remember Graham mentioning Hubert Lindsey by name in
his book, but that is not unusual to give only the primary evangelist
the recognition. Billy Graham simply subtitles the chapter with,
"Itinerant Evangelists." Hubert was one of those evangelists who
preached this revival with Mordecai Ham where Billy Graham was
converted. If you read the account from Graham, it sounds like Hubert's
style of preaching all the way. He describes the sermons as being about
sin, judgment and Hell. Billy Graham wrote, "What was slowly dawning on
me during those weeks was the miserable realization that I did not know
Jesus Christ for myself. I could not depend on my parents' faith." At
the time, Billy Graham was a Presbyterian who had been baptized as an
infant. Later, Billy Graham writes, "For all my previous religious
upbringing and church activity, I believe that that was the moment I
made my real commitment to Jesus Christ."

So Hubert spoke the truth about Billy Graham's conversion. Why do you
call Hubert a liar?

John S. wrote:
... converted over 40.000 Jews and thousands of
hippies and conducted services at a 2000 member
church -- which in fact was his service garage.

His service garage? What are you talking about? I think you are mixing
up information from various sources.

Did you know Hubert? Are you reporting some first hand information
here, or gossip that you obtained off the internet?

John S. wrote:
A complete impostor, full of vile and hatred.
A reprobate in the truest sense of the word.

John, I am truly shocked that you would say something like this. Hubert
was a spiritual father to me. I guess that does not surprise you.
Maybe you think the same thing about me.

Hubert was one of the most loving men I have ever known. He was
anything but full of vile and hatred. Not even his enemies ever
characterized him like this. He was beat up hundreds of times for
preaching Christ, shot, stabbed, you name it. Hubert was arrested 100
times for preaching Christ and never convicted of a crime. He always
turned the other cheek and loved his neighbor. Through a broken jaw, he
would tell his attackers that Jesus loved them and he did too. There
were many men who were converted through Hubert's unquenched love for
them, and they are preaching the gospel today.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

In a message dated 5/4/2004 2:43:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

JT: And you folks rise up en masse denouncing Polanyi, Torrance and Capon?? Tradition rears its head again. Soon, I'm thinking, y'all gonna acknowledge the obvious. Lance


Actually, Lance brings up a very good point. Tradition. A tough subject. Why do we not support baptism for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), foot washing, head coverings and the like while enforcing repentance for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), womans place in leadership, and the like Is there a hermeneutical rule that gets rid of some and keeps others? 

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

John: Yes there is! Lance

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  Sent: May 04, 2004 09:29
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
  Lindsey
  In a message dated 5/4/2004 2:43:51 AM Pacific 
  Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  JT: And you folks rise up en masse denouncing Polanyi, Torrance 
and Capon?? Tradition rears its head again. Soon, I'm thinking, y'all gonna 
acknowledge the obvious. LanceActually, Lance brings up a 
  very good point. Tradition. A tough subject. Why 
  do we not support baptism for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), foot washing, 
  head coverings and the like while enforcing repentance for the remission of 
  sins (Acts 2:38), womans place in leadership, and the like Is there a 
  hermeneutical rule that gets rid of some and keeps others? 
  John

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey




Some of that which each teaches is true, some 
false. Some of that which is false is harmful, some not. Think of a center point 
out which comes a spiral.The center is a Person. The spiral is that which 
we say/teach concerning Him via the Word/His Words
If the level of inexactitude reflected on TT were 
similarly reflected in "Rocket Science" well...(BOOM!!)
Sadly (in my opinion) some on TT believe themselves 
to be THE exception. I addressed this in an earlier post which DM dismissed 
(mistakenly) with a verbal flourish. David, the little equation includes you 
like it or not. Lance

  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: May 04, 2004 09:29
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
  Lindsey
  In a message dated 5/4/2004 2:43:51 AM Pacific 
  Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  JT: And you folks rise up en masse denouncing Polanyi, Torrance 
and Capon?? Tradition rears its head again. Soon, I'm thinking, y'all gonna 
acknowledge the obvious. LanceActually, Lance brings up a 
  very good point. Tradition. A tough subject. Why 
  do we not support baptism for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), foot washing, 
  head coverings and the like while enforcing repentance for the remission of 
  sins (Acts 2:38), womans place in leadership, and the like Is there a 
  hermeneutical rule that gets rid of some and keeps others? 
  John

RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-04 Thread ShieldsFamily









Lance, Oh, so true! (Surely, I am the
exception!!!) J But in all seriousness,
that is one reason I dont like to argue
(versus polite, serious discussion) about doctrineespecially non-essential
doctrine. Who among us can say I am totally right and you are totally wrong?
(Well, other than a couple of you out there.) There are many ways to read and
interpret the Word, and any sincere person can be half a bubble off. They dont
need human condemnation for that. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 9:13
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holy
Hubert Lindsey







Some of that which each teaches is true, some false. Some of
that which is false is harmful, some not. Think of a center point out which
comes a spiral.The center is a Person. The spiral is that which we
say/teach concerning Him via the Word/His Words





If the level of inexactitude reflected on TT were similarly
reflected in Rocket Science well...(BOOM!!)





Sadly (in my opinion) some on TT believe themselves to be
THE exception. I addressed this in an earlier post which DM dismissed
(mistakenly) with a verbal flourish. David, the little equation includes you
like it or not. Lance







From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 





To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






Sent: May 04, 2004 09:29





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Holy Hubert Lindsey









In a message dated 5/4/2004 2:43:51
AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:




JT: And you folks rise up en masse denouncing Polanyi, Torrance and Capon??
Tradition rears its head again. Soon, I'm thinking, y'all gonna acknowledge the
obvious. Lance



Actually, Lance brings up a very good point. Tradition. A
tough subject. Why do we not support baptism for the remission of
sins (Acts 2:38), foot washing, head coverings and the like while enforcing
repentance for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), womans place in leadership,
and the like Is there a hermeneutical rule that gets rid of some and
keeps others? 

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey----WEBSITE OPPOSED?

2004-05-04 Thread ELSMANLAW

In a message dated 5/4/2004 8:32:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I hope you mean going to Rick Roehm to get some CD's of Hubert's sermons
rather than that website that is against Hubert. Going to that website
that John S. recommended is like going to the democratic party to find
out about George Bush. Don't believe everything you hear there.



MAY I INQUIRE AS TO THE EXACT WEBSITE THAT IS AGAINST HUBERT? I WOULD LIKE TO CHECK IT OUT.
 ---JIM

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey THE SICKNESS OF JOHN SMITHSON

Izzy, et al, remember the warning I gave regarding a comment Barr made about your marriage -- ""Don't bite on this one ... " or words to that effect? Elsman is the elder of this band of thugs. This is the way they fight -- they just make up stuff and hope it ruins your day. This coming from a man who claims holiness as his _expression_ of faith. 

 John



n a message dated 5/3/2004 8:35:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

In a message dated 5/3/2004 11:21:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

material. Lest we forget, DavidM has good things to say about Elsman - a man who dispises Miller and treats him like a step-mom.

John



JOHN,
 YOU ARE A TROUBLE-CAUSING LOSER THAT DIVORCED AND GOT KICKED FROM PASTOR -LIFE AFTER 14 YEARS AS A SENIOR PASTOR. YOU NOW ARE A COMMON WORKMAN, PLAYING WITH PRIVATE COUNSELING AT NIGHT.
 THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU, AND YOU DON'T EVEN GET ALONG WITH YOUR SONS. YOU ARE AN OBVIOUS GLUTTON, CONFESSING TO A WEIGHT OF 270 POUNDS ON A 5 FOOT FRAME. LOW SELF-ESTEEM.
 DAVID MILLER AND I ARE OLD FRIENDS AND SHARE MOST OF THEOLOGY. WE ARE BOTH WELCOME AT EACH OTHERS HOMES, AND HAVE SOCIALIZED IN THE PAST. YOU ARE A LIAR AND TROUBLE-CAUSER. 
 OF COURSE, WE LIKE TO DEBATE.
 ---ELSMAN

RE: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey THE SICKNESS OF JOHN SMITHSON

2004-05-04 Thread ShieldsFamily









John, Fortunately I dont even
remember what comment Barr made about my marriage, so it hasnt ruined my
day. J Actually, Chris is Daniels mentor,
but I dont believe either of them know Elsman personally. However,
Elsman seems to be the leader of the pack on TT. (Simply because his
print size is larger?) Izzy











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:34
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holy
Hubert Lindsey  THE SICKNESS OF JOHN SMITHSON





Izzy, et al, remember the warning I gave regarding a comment
Barr made about your marriage -- Don't bite on this one
...  or words to that effect? Elsman is the elder of this
band of thugs. This is the way they fight -- they just
make up stuff and hope it ruins your day. This coming from a man who
claims holiness as his _expression_ of faith. 

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey DavidM

In a message dated 5/4/2004 5:32:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hubert is going to be a tough one to learn about. He did not build a
personal empire like many ministers. He was not a writer like those who
have left us a legacy. Although he earned a Ph.D., he never flaunted it
and nobody I knew called him Doctor Lindsey. He was just Hubert. He
was like the apostles of Christ who went down in history without us
knowing much of what they did, those apostles who left us no writings,
like Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Lebbaeus, and Simon Zelotes. His
testimony was his life, and it greatly touched those who were blessed to
have encountered him.

In fact, I cannot find any sites putting out Hubert propaganda that is not a for-profit enterprise. DavidM, you need to understand that I am very much opposed to anyone who practices his faith in the Elsman and Danny fashion. They may be good guys. They might even get things done for the Lord. but I sure that some in the first century could say the same for Alexander the copper smith. Hubert, with what little an unbiased observer can discover, is somewhat the forefather to all this thuggery (and I speak specifically of Elsman and his crew). And now, you admit there is precious little out there that would help those of us who really would like to know.
Mordecai Ham was likewise a very abusive preacher -- even for his day and time. But, at least, there is information about him that is dependable. I don't expect to find material written by Lindsey nearly so much as I expect to find third party material written about a man who spoke like Ham (your admission) but was accepted by the Roman church, converted thousands of hippies, brought 40,000 Jews to the Lord and whose ministry was used by Gilly Graham.

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

In a message dated 5/4/2004 6:35:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

John: Yes there is! Lance

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: May 04, 2004 09:29
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

In a message dated 5/4/2004 2:43:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

JT: And you folks rise up en masse denouncing Polanyi, Torrance and Capon?? Tradition rears its head again. Soon, I'm thinking, y'all gonna acknowledge the obvious. Lance

Actually, Lance brings up a very good point. Tradition. A tough subject. Why do we not support baptism for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), foot washing, head coverings and the like while enforcing repentance for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), womans place in leadership, and the like Is there a hermeneutical rule that gets rid of some and keeps others? 

John 

I'm listening. Seriously.

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey THE SICKNESS OF JOHN SMITHSON

In a message dated 5/4/2004 9:58:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

John, Fortunately I dont even remember what comment Barr made about my marriage, so it hasnt ruined my day. J Actually, Chris is Daniels mentor, but I dont believe either of them know Elsman personally. However, Elsman seems to be the leader of the pack on TT. (Simply because his print size is larger?) Izzy

 



You might have it right. 
J

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey DavidM




Given the time and attention being given to HH I'm 
guessing that it's appropriate that we're about to hear DM's reflections on HT 
(Holy Thomas F. Torrance). I once had a person walk in asking for "books by 
deadholy guys" (he didn't trust live ones).
It does amuse me somewhat given the vitriolic 
responses to the very mention of those from whom we 
learnedthat nary a peep has been offered 
over this love/hate fest over dearly(?) departed HH.Are you folks part of a 
cult? Have we been duped? Chuckle Lance

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: May 04, 2004 12:58
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert 
  Lindsey DavidM
  In a message dated 5/4/2004 5:32:25 AM Pacific 
  Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  Hubert is going to be a tough one to learn about. He did 
not build apersonal empire like many ministers. He was not a 
writer like those whohave left us a legacy. Although he earned a 
Ph.D., he never flaunted itand nobody I knew called him Doctor 
Lindsey. He was just Hubert. Hewas like the apostles of 
Christ who went down in history without usknowing much of what they did, 
those apostles who left us no writings,like Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, 
Lebbaeus, and Simon Zelotes. Histestimony was his life, and it 
greatly touched those who were blessed tohave encountered 
  him.In fact, I cannot find any sites putting out 
  Hubert propaganda that is not a for-profit enterprise. DavidM, you need 
  to understand that I am very much opposed to anyone who practices his faith in 
  the Elsman and Danny fashion. They may be good guys. They 
  might even get things done for the Lord. but I sure that some in 
  the first century could say the same for Alexander the copper 
  smith. Hubert, with what little an unbiased observer can 
  discover, is somewhat the forefather to all this thuggery (and I speak 
  specifically of Elsman and his crew). And now, you admit there is 
  precious little out there that would help those of us who really would like to 
  know. Mordecai Ham was likewise a very abusive preacher -- even for 
  his day and time. But, at least, there is information about him 
  that is dependable. I don't expect to find material written by 
  Lindsey nearly so much as I expect to find third party material written about 
  a man who spoke like Ham (your admission) but was accepted by the Roman 
  church, converted thousands of hippies, brought 40,000 Jews to the Lord and 
  whose ministry was used by Gilly Graham. 
  John

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey

2004-05-04 Thread LaurHamm




In a message dated 5/4/2004 8:29:47 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Actually, Lance brings up a very good point. Tradition. A tough subject. Why do we not support baptism for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), foot washing, head coverings and the like while enforcing repentance for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), womans place in leadership, and the like Is there a hermeneutical rule that gets rid of some and keeps others? 
I do practice foot washing but not for the remission of sins. Laura

Re: [TruthTalk] Holy Hubert Lindsey