Re: [Vo]:Bismuth telluride as a topological insulator
Thank you Jones, I was actually able to wrap my brain around most of that. I especially like the falsifiable conclusion. The sooner the better. An afterthought: If Rossi (and probably Mills as well) don't currently possess an accurate understanding of what's actually happening on the atomic and LENR levels it sounds like a lot of regrettable roadblocks could be thrown up, possibly impairing the patent process. I perceive the lack of a proper theory as possibly resulting in a string of regrettable delays while interested parties fight over proprietary issues. OTOH, if one can statistically predict how the phenomenon behaves between point A and B, and then you design and subsequently patent your contraption to operate specifically between those two parameters... the world could very well be your oyster, until some other upstart comes along and designs an even better can opener. That is bound to happen. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Washington Times comments on Rossi
From Jed: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/mar/17/nuclear-future-beyond-japan/ This is the first I have seen in a major U.S. mass media general newspaper. QUOTE: Just as Japan’s earthquake raises fears of catastrophe from a nuclear meltdown and Mideast turmoil jeopardizes the world’s supply of conventional energy, along comes word of a possible scientific breakthrough that holds out the hope of cheap, abundant power. Cold fusion - discredited and vilified in the past - is back in the news. The potential benefits are great enough that, despite past failures, the technology deserves a fair hearing from the scientific community this time. - Jed The WT article concludes with: Cold fusion is the holy grail of energy generation. Achieving it would constitute a breakthrough of epic proportions, but wishing it won’t make it so. In light of Japan’s nuclear woes, the scientific community should approach the Focardi-Rossi enterprise with both healthy skepticism and a wary eye toward naysayers who would suppress rational inquiry. Let science be science and the chips fall where they will. * Not a bad conclusion to draw at this stage of the game. I think the article will help a lot in garnering considerable on-the-street interest in the Italian event. Can't hurt! Perhaps the snowball at the top of the hill is finally beginning it's epic roll down the slope. How big will it get? Nobody knows! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Washington Times comments on Rossi
From Harry, I don't wish to sound negative, but that is the Washington Times and not the Washington Post. It is owned by reverend Sun Myung Moon who heads the Unification Church. Sigh... For more info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Times Excerpt: RECENT CHANGES: In January 2008, editor-in-chief Wesley Pruden retired and John F. Solomon began work as executive editor of the Times. Solomon is known for his work as an investigative journalist for the Associated Press and the Washington Post, and was most recently head of investigative reporting and mixed media development at the Post.[48][49][50] Within a month the Times changed some of its style guide to conform more to mainstream media usage. The Times announced that it would no longer use words like illegal aliens and homosexual, and in most cases opt for more neutral terminology like illegal immigrants and gay, respectively. The paper also decided to stop using Hillary when referring to Senator Hillary Clinton, and the word marriage in the expression gay marriage will no longer appear in quotes in the newspaper. These changes in policy drew criticism from some conservatives.[51] Prospect magazine attributed the Times' apparent move to the center to differences of opinion over the United Nations and North Korea, and said: The Republican right may be losing its most devoted media ally.[52] On November 30, 2009 the New York Times reported that the Washington Times would no longer be receiving funds from the Unification Church and might have to cease publication or go to online publication only.[43] In December 2009 the Times announced it would lay off 40% of its 370 employees and stop subscription service, instead distributing the paper free in some areas of Washington including branches of the government. It is also found in many Christian schools, and is given out free at area Chick Fil-A restaurants. The Times said that it would focus on its core strengths, which it identified as exclusive reporting and in-depth national political coverage, enterprise and investigative reporting, geo-strategic and national security news and cultural coverage based on traditional values. A subscription website owned by the paper, theconservatives.com, continued, as did the Times three-hour radio program, “America’s Morning News.”[53] Later that month the Times announced that it would cease publication of its Sunday edition, along with other changes partly in order to end its reliance on subsidies from the Unification Church ownership.[54] On December 31, 2009 it announced that it would end its coverage of sports.[55][56] In July 2010 international leaders of the Unification Church issued a letter protesting the direction the Times was taking and urging closer ties between it and the church.[57] In August 2010, a deal was made to sell the Times to a group more closely related to the church. Editor-in-chief Sam Dealey said that this was a welcome development among the Times' staff.[58] On November 2, 2010, Moon and a group of former Washington Times editors purchased the paper from Moon's son, Preston Moon, for $1. This ended a stalemate that had been threatening to shut down the paper completely.[59] In March 2011 the Times announced that some former staffers would be rehired and that the paper would bring back its sports, metro and life sections.[60] Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi to answer questions on Ny Teknik
From Alan, http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3126617.ece And here are 36 more questions – with Rossi's answers Thanks, Alan, Last QA caught my eye: Q: Karl-Henrik Malmqvist: In the reactor there might be a flow of electrons. Is it possible to directly take care of that flow for electrical generation, or is the number of moving electrons too small? A: Rossi: It is too small; it is not worth to take care of it. * * * * I wonder if Dr. Mills begs to differ with that conclusion. Just how many ways are there to skin this cat! Guess we shall see... ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Krivit stays on the ball with Rossi Portal
From Jed: ... Conventional nuclear power is now a great deal more vulnerable than fossil fuels, because of the crisis in Fukushima. It's recent industrial accidents (as coined by ACC in Profiles of the Future) that can occasionally cause one wonder if Someone Above might be pulling a few strings down here - perhaps in order to hasten a paradigm change within the common collective. My apologies to ACC. Even though I'm not an atheist, I completely disagree with such a string pulling theory. We're perfectly capable of pulling our own strings, thank you. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The ZPED theory of quasi-nuclear gain (long post)
From Jones: ... 9) The gain per metastable atom is at least ~100,000 times chemical but far less than fission or fusion - and the only ash seen is in a change isotope ratio of the tellurium (or other metastable fuel) with occasionally nuclear transmutations due to the small proportion of high energy photons that do not couple to the ZPF but end up in 3-space instead. From: While trying to educate myself on the mysteries of the element, Tellurium, I came across the following tidbit: From: http://www.ptable.com/ Excerpt: * Precautions Tellurium and tellurium compounds are considered to be mildly toxic and need to be handled with care, although acute poisoning is rare.[59] Tellurium is not reported to be carcinogenic.[59] Humans exposed to as little as 0.01 mg/m3 or less in air develop tellurium breath, which has a garlic-like odor.[50] The garlic odor that is associated with human intake of tellurium compounds is caused from the tellurium being metabolized by the body. When the body metabolizes tellurium in any oxidation state, the tellurium gets converted into dimethyl telluride, (CH3)2Te, which is volatile and is the cause of the garlic-like smell. Even though the metabolic pathways of tellurium are not known, it is generally assumed that they resemble those of the more extensively studied selenium, because the final methylated metabolic products of the two elements are similar.[60][61][62] * Of particular interest: ...tellurium gets converted into dimethyl telluride, (CH3)2Te, which is volatile... The first thing that popped in my fecund activated brain was wondering if tellurium poisoning might also help explain some of the mysterious cases of Spontaneous Human Combustion we occasionally hear about. these victims tend to end up being almost entirely consumed by a VERY INTENSE SOURCE OF HEAT! It would be interesting to know whether there exists anecdotal evidence to suggest that some of these victims had bad breath - garlic breath. I gather many SHC victims were not in the best of health, which also suggests the possibility that some might have been suffering from some kind of metabolic poisoning. (Don't light a match!) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi live tonight
Jed sez: ... I gather he [Icke] also believes that reptilian humanoids are secretly in charge of humanity. Last year on a YAHOO discussion group, DNNY, I participated in a series if stimulating conversations with a lady who believes blue skinned reptilian aliens, whom she calls the Syrians, are secretly attempting to take over our planet. She's probably right. I see strong evidence that have already taken control of our Governor: Scott Walker. If you are strongly attracted to the color blue, you are probably infected with Syrian nanobots. It was a fascinating exchange. Whenever I want to leave planet earth for a spell all I have to do is head over to the DNNY group. That's incorrect. That honor belongs to another species: Felis catus. To which I can only add: My catus has trained me well. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Addendum to Student's Guide
From Jed See: Storms, E., What is now known about cold fusion? (Addendum to Student's Guide). 2011, LENR-CANR.org. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEwhatisnowk.pdf This was prompted by recent progress in the field, and also, in part, by confusion about the role of helium and the W-L theory. I would describe this as a model rather than a theory, the main difference being that I can understand this whereas theories are over my head. I updated the ASCII and Acrobat versions of the Student's Guide to point to this file. I especially enjoyed the ramifications Storms ponders in the following excerpts: Is the mechanism operating in the hydrogen + Ni combination related to the one operating in the Pd+D combination? This becomes an important question in deciding whether nature has a single mechanism with variations, or two different mechanisms. A single mechanism seems more likely because the process has such unique requirement. If so, a proposed theory has been further limited in its characteristics by needing to explain the behavior of light hydrogen, which eliminates most present suggestions. Consequently, Rossi's success has advanced application of the phenomenon while creating a serious challenge to theoreticians. ... ...The main difference between the palladium and nickel-based system is that nickel holds the fuel (H or D) to higher temperatures than does palladium, which results in larger reaction rates being available because higher temperatures can be used without losing the fuel. Failure to explore the higher temperatures may be one reason success has been poor using nickel before Rossi showed the way. * * * * Fun reading. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:How cheap must electricity be in order to make desalinization cost effective?
Here's a question that I hope some resident Vort experts might be able to answer. Assuming, in due course, that Rossi's E-Cat, or some new and improved CF version eventually drops the price of electricity down to just under a penny a KwH... But, then, for the sake of argument, let's assume that there remain huge technological problems that prevent us from producing electricity any cheaper than just under a penny - at least for many more decades to come. While the price of electricity hovers at just under a penny a KwH for decades would that be cheap enough to do things like desalinate sea water cost effectively? I suspect there might still be numerous practical ways to reduce the price of electricity, like don't buy from a utility company! Instead, purchase your own E-Cat reactors and generate your own electricity on site. Just curious as to what the cost breakdown might be in order to make desalinization a realistic goal. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:What's New
From Terry: From bobpark.org DALLAS: THE APS MARCH MEETING NEXT WEEK. I'll be there to give an invited talk about what's new in Voodoo Science, Thursday, March 24 at 8:36AM, in C1. Anyone care to guess? Hmmm? Goodness me! That's today. ...as we speak. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:What's New
From Terry: Anyone care to guess? Hmmm? Based on Park's past performance I suspect he would prefer to scrupulously avoid discussing Rossi... unless someone in the audience deliberately confronts him with a pointed question: Dr. Park. What is your opinion on the recent claims made in Bologna, Italy, by two Italians, Rossi and Focardi. Surely you have acquired some thoughts on the matter. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:What's New
A hypothetical conversation in room C1: * * * * AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: Dr. Park, what are your thoughts on Rossi's Cold Fusion device? DR. PARK: There isn't much I can say on the subject. AP: But... but... but why haven't you come out and exposed it for what it is! The device is after all just another cold fusion contraption, isn't it? Isn't it just another perfect example of voodoo science praying on the naive minds of wishful thinkers? DP: Actually, I wouldn't currently call this voodoo science. The device is currently being independently tested at the physics department of the University of Bologna, Italy, as we speak. But, yes, I agree, the device is most certainly a fake. Nevertheless, it's currently being scientifically investigated ... in a scientific manner. AP: But, but, but Rossi's device is just another COLD FUSION device! We all know COLD FUSION was dismissed back in 1989! DP: Actually, it's my understanding that Rossi has never claimed that their device is based on the principals of COLD FUSION. According to Rossi the device generates heat as a result of what he calls not well understood nuclear interactions. Hopefully, the physics department in Bologna will be more revealing as to what those alleged little understood nuclear interactions might be, or not be. Hopefully, they will get to the bottom of what's REALLY going on here, particularly what Rossi messed up on. AP: But, Dr. Park, surely you have an informed opinion on the matter. I find it absolutely bizarre that Rossi's device continues to remain unexposed! How long will it take before it's exposed as just another botched experiment, or perhaps even a scam. DP: Every bone in my body is telling me the fact that this device cannot be for real. It violates a century's worth of accumulated quantum mechanical laws so badly that it's pathetic. Nevertheless, it is currently being independently tested at a physics department. I will defer expressing a public opinion on this dubious contraption till AFTER Bologna publishes their findings... out of respect for a physics department in their on-going efforts to reveal what's really happening here. AP: You don't sound very confident as to the capabilities of the Bologna physics department. DP: No comment. * * * * Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:What's New
Another hypothetical conversation in room C1 (This version is probably even less likely, but what the hey! I'm speculate'n here!) * * * * * AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT: Dr. Park, what are your thoughts on Rossi's Cold Fusion device? DR. PARK: There isn't much I can say on the subject AP: But... but... but why haven't you come out and exposed it for what it is! The device is after all just another cold fusion contraption, isn't it? Isn't it just another perfect example of voodoo science praying on the naive minds of wishful thinkers? DP: Actually, I wouldn't currently call this voodoo science. The device is currently being independently tested at the physics department of the University of Bologna, Italy, as we speak. AP: But, but, but Rossi's device is just another COLD FUSION device! We all know COLD FUSION was dismissed back in 1989! DP: Actually, it's my understanding that Rossi has never claimed that their device is based on the principals of COLD FUSION. According to Rossi the device generates heat as a result of what he calls not well understood nuclear interactions. Now, if you feel a little skeptical about such an interpretation, well, rest assured, it sounds highly fishy to me too. It's just an outrageous claim! More likely: Did Rossi make a mistake? Or is he trying to scam us? To be honest, I simply don't know. While I suspect Rossi made a mistake, at present, I don't have enough information at my fingertips to make a correct assessment. Hopefully, the physics department in Bologna will be more revealing as to what those alleged little understood nuclear interactions might be, or not be. AP: But, Dr. Park, surely you have an informed opinion on the matter. I find it absolutely bizarre that Rossi's device continues to remain unexposed! How long will it take before it's exposed as just another botched experiment, or perhaps even a scam. DP: Every bone in my body is telling me the fact that this device cannot be for real. It violates a century's worth of accumulated quantum mechanical laws so badly that it's pathetic. Nevertheless, regardless of whether I think it's pathetic or not, it's continues to be an interesting on-going event, one that I continue to watch closely. It deserves rigorous scientific scrutiny, the kind of scrutiny that is presumably going on right now in a physics lab at the University of Bologna, Italy. To be honest, I wish such research was being performed here, at a physics lab located somewhere in the United States. But for now, Bologna, Italy will have to do. AP: How confident are you as to the capabilities of the Bologna physics department coming to the correct conclusion? DP: Let's first see what Bologna has to say on the matter, and what they back their conclusions up with. I'll reserve personal judgment until then. * * * * * And with that final installment, I think I've beaten this horse to death enuf times. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:What's New
Jed sez: ... Ah. So it is pure fantasy after all. Guilty as charged. Either that or your bug picked up the wrong voice. I try to keep the voices in my head from bugging the predilections of others. It's the polite thing to do. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:What's New
From Terry, ... What! No CF!?! A smart bully, if he wishes to stay in power, always makes sure he has an escape route planned, a plan that can more-or-less be gracefully executed if warranted. Say what you want about Dr. Park, but I think he is definitely smart. (IOW: I think he's hedging his bets.) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Upcoming mass spec tests remove all doubts about Rossi's claims
From Jones: ... The burst of radiation, witnessed by Celani, could be a clue. The idea that it was cosmic rays is preposterous. Let's assume the worst. Why assume the worst ??? But, yes, agreed. I think the burst of radiation is an essential ingredient. For instance, it could have been a directed beam from a basement below the demo - of superradiant RF frequencies that act in a novel way stimulates a reaction. The question then becomes why not then promote that trick for its own right instead of making it into a scam? My best guess: The briefly detected EMP is part of the proprietary process that has yet to be officially patented. Like you, I also suspect its part of the initial start up procedure for the subsequent on-going catalytic reaction. Once the contents of the E-Cat reactor are initialized the initial EMP is no longer required. Of course, we are currently forced to ponder the 64 trillion dollar question: What specific EMP frequencies are involved? For those who know their fissix I'm sure the devil is in the details. ;-) I think such a conclusion is a no-brainer. And perhaps there is a good answer to that, which only Rossi knows for now. Or maybe it is part of his madness. I loved David Bowie's portrayal of Tesla. The film, Prestige, was excellent. It was a gripping horrific tale. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0482571/ Keep your canaries caged! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Upcoming mass spec tests remove all doubts about Rossi's claims
From Jed: There was no electromagnetic pulse. Celani had two RF meters as well as two particle detectors. The former detected nothing. And what of the latter? Unfortunately, my careless use of the term EMP was too imprecise an interpretation. Let me rephrase my previous commentary. Correct me if I'm misinterpreting something here but based on what you just said, the implication is that the particle detectors DID detect something. In fact a LOT of something - briefly! LOTS of sub atomic particles I would assume. Just how many particles were detected is obviously a legitimate matter of concern, for safety reasons. The implication I was trying to suggest is that those unknown particles are most likely part of Rossi's E-Cat initialization procedure. It makes sense for me to speculate that the detected brief particle burst is proprietary in nature. Would help explain why Rossi remains mum on the subject. I suspect this particular matter will eventually be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Upcoming mass spec tests remove all doubts about Rossi's claims
From Jones: ... Heck, Rossi might have been recruited for this ! even planned it out from Day-one with the help of skeptics like Park Co (or more likely the Pentagon or spooks at some 3-letter org) as a sponsor, for all we really know. That would explain Park's unaccustomed silence. Maybe they want to embarrass the LENR community to such an extent that funding will never happen. That is a most ingenious way to protect military secrets, after all? Granted, it's an intriguing premise. Nevertheless, the principal reason as to why I don't buy into such a conclusion (the pay-off, if you will) is that it's kind of narcissistic if you think about it for too long. It's like the antithesis of inventor's disease. In any case, I sure HOPE you're wrong! ;-) My two cents. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Upcoming mass spec tests remove all doubts about Rossi's claims
From Jones ... At any rate, I strongly believe that there has been an ongoing 'black' or military project since around 2000, which has been funded under the UAV umbrella, and which could be directly related to this. We know for sure that this program involves hydrogen (not deuterium) as the fuel, and that the gain is in the range of 20 times chemical, and that converted ICE engines have been used for testing. Aside from that, details are conflicting ... To be honest, I don't know what to make of such speculation. I certainly don't want to underestimate the depth of secret DOD projects and what kind of exotic technology might be involved. But getting back to Rossi... I don't wish to quote Dr. Storms out of context here. Nevertheless I believe Dr. Storms has speculated that much of Rossi's perceived actions appear to be designed to obfuscate the nitti-gritty particulars of the technology being invoked. An obvious reason for doing so would be to protect the vulnerability of the technology from corporate espionage, until it has been officially patented. Creating confusion is SOP in defense terms - generating decoys right and left... causing everyone to pursue the wrong target(s). Perhaps Defkalion's logo should consist of a giant octopus squirting unlimited supplies of ink everywhere, obfuscating everything and everyone in its path! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Upcoming mass spec tests remove all doubts about Rossi's claims
Jed sed: ... ... People kept underestimating him [Edison], and he kept blowing his critics out of the water. He gave his investors nightmares while he struggled to pull off these things. In regards to Rossi, it is a good thing you are only playing the role of honorable scholar and meticulous librarian - someone championing the cause of cold fusion. I suspect that if your circumstances had been different, and that you had agreed to financially back Rossi's E-Cat you would probably have had a heart attack by now, wondering if you were going to be filthy rich or a pauper. But then... as with most financial backers Rossi would presumably have taken you into his confidence with the signing of a bunch of NDA's, so it's a good chance your blood pressure might have remained within acceptable parameters. ;-) I bet you would have liked to have been a fly on the wall in Rossi Focardi's lab for the past few years. Wouldn't we all. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Another Asperger's Victim
From Alexander and Jed I take issue with the diagnosis. One of the primary symptoms of asberger's is an inability to relate and discuss with other people, and he seems to have no issue doing that. I agree. Einstein also had this ability, as I said. Not every genius has Asperger's. Perhaps the doctors got the asberger's diagnosis backwards! It would appear that it's not the 12 year old kid who experiences difficulty relating and discussing heady subjects with others. Professional jealousy. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Artificial leaf from MIT uses Ni and Co as catalysts
From Jed, See: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1370839/Scientists-Holy-Grail-science-mastermind-worlds-artificial-leaf.html It's a cool idea. However, I have no idea how good it really is. (Maybe it's not!) For example, when they say it's 10 times more efficient than photosynthesis - what does that really translate to. I'd rather know much square footage would be required to generate a kilowatt of electricity in Phoenix Arizona at noon. How about Seattle, Washington as well. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Deep-Ocean Vents: Power 5 Times Greater than Nuclear Power Plants
At first glance, the engineering would probably be ambitious. However, considering the fact that we have been accumulating lots of experience in off-shore drilling: * The Marshall System claims to be the first and only system to unlock the awesome power of deep-ocean hydrothermal vents for energy, mining and water desalination. The system is completely non-polluting. Whereas, the largest nuclear power plant in the US has the ability to power 4,000,000 homes, one Marshall System plant could power 20,000,000 homes. Fascinating concept video! http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/page/1326.html * If there was a catastrophic failure at least it wouldn't cause a massive oil spill! ;-) Comments? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Hysterical comment in Wikipedia discussion
Jed sez: Someone named TenOfAllTrades deleted my remarks, with a comment rv, banned User:JedRothwell That's probably good for me. It will prevent me from wasting any more time posting message there. Someone unknowingly has just paid you a very high complement. You know better than to stick you nose in places where you are not wanted. ;-) BTW, over the years I would think that you must have accumulated a database of wacky statements proclamations issued by authorities, skeptics and debunkers. Surely you've managed to document plenty of exchanges that will live in infamy - enuf to assemble a hilarious assemblage to patronizing, ignorant and pontificating conclusions that DESPERATELY need to be published. All of these statements should not be swept under the rug, particularly as they start flipping and begin saying things like: Of course! I knew it all along! I think such a publication would make for both hilarious and educational reading. It would be a great public service, too. Something to think about, Jed. If Rossi and the inevitable hoards of scientific progeny get their way, your web site, lenr-canr.org, may have fulfilled it's major purpose. You may suddenly discover the fact that you have performed your librarian duties so well that you've actually put yourself out of a job! What to do next? One possibility would be to publish, of course! Publish your memoirs on the battle to help restore CF... Your memoirs would have to include some of the stupidest quotes attributed to famous skeptics, statements they were known to have said pertaining to their opinion on Cold Fusion. A suggested title: COLD FUSION How the Promise of Cold Fusion was Nearly Destroyed Through Ignorance and Arrogance Parading as the Scientific Method Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The Riser
Jones sez: One odd design characteristic of the E-Cat is the “Riser” – this is the vertical component giving the device the “reclining L-shape”… What is the purpose of the Riser? Antenna for a directed beam? … homage to Italy? The vortician submitting the best answer … err … (non-phallic-symbol) answer, if any good answer should emerge, will be solemnly awarded the “genius of the day” award. It could be you ! Well, Jones, it's certainly a worthy challenge. ;-) Actually the best off-the-wall interpretation I've come across occurred very early in the Rossi-Focardi debut. Check out commentary pertaining to Popular Science's dubious article on Rossi Focardi: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-01/italian-scientists-claim-dubious-cold-fusion-breakthrough One skeptic, Fingolfinon, had the following to say concerning what certain visual aspects of the accompanying photograph suggested to him: In the photo at the top, the guy in red looks like he's smoking a bong. When making claims about cold fusion, it's important to not have photos that make you look like you're smoking a bong. * * * Ok... ok... I know. We're not talking specifically about the Riser. He's close however. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
From Jed: A well-known skeptic shown up in this discussion. See: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=484427page=5 He is intellectually dishonest. He described experiment 1 as follows: ... He also demands an independent test. That was an independent test. Levi had no connection to Rossi. As soon as the test was reported, Crude lumped in Prof. Levi with Rossi. If professors A, B and C conduct tests, he will say that they too are part of a conspiracy, and he will demand yet another independent test. It would appear that Cude isn't posting here anymore, presumably after everyone grew tired of his inflexibility. Cude wasn't getting what he needed here, so he went elsewhere. Looks like he's now trying to work out his issues over at physicsforums.com. Since it's a skeptical web site he may experience more extended play over there than he did in vortex. OTOH, the moderator strikes me as a pretty sharp dude. I suspect he would prefer to keep his forum ship-shape. He may eventually see through Cude, especially if Cude keeps to his past behavior. Like Mr. Beaty, the moderator can kick anybody out of the forum any time he wants to - no explanation needed. To be honest, I really don't think Cold Fusion is what Cude is really railing against. Cold Fusion is just the most expedient vehicle that Cude chose in order to work through a personal list of intellectual proclivities. I'm sure it's an engaging experience for him. Least I sound too judgmental towards Mr. Cude - I wish to make it clear that I believe we ALL come into our lives with personal issues. Few escape unscathed. It's just that at certain times in life some of us express those proclivities more obnoxiously than at other times. It's a process. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Physics Forums discussion of Rossi with comments by Brian Josephson
Jed sez: ... Really, there isn't much more we can ask for. Well, I was thinking about that. Maybe when Rossi starts marketing the E-Cat in the United States he should trademark and then rename his energy catalyzer Mr. Fusion (I bet Mr. Spielberg wouldn't mind sharing his trademark one bit!) It would subsequently receive a much better reception here since Mr. Fusion energy catalyzers would instantly be associated with an upbeat movie - ...where we're going we don't need roads. Great Scott! Seriously! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:PESN reports zirconium cold fusion in Poland
From Peter, I have also found this, have not the slightest idea if hydrogen is present or not. I will try to find out the documents in the original languages- I have a long experience in collaboration with Russian and Ukrainian inventors- YUSMAR, INTERENERGORESURS etc. If there is hydrogen present, will they tell? Maybe yes, maybe no. Thank you Peter! Please keep us informed. I was also wondering the same thing that Jones just expressed. BTW: Jones, election - electron... what's a couple of jumbled letters to a dyslexic like me! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Independent test of Rossi E-Cat
From Jed: ... If he can secure intellectual property with a patent, he is worth every euro of the money Defkalion plans to pay him. I assume the investors at Defkalion know a thing or two about patents, and they have reason to believe he can get one. ...which brings up the question as to how Rossi Defkalion might best go about getting the e-cat patented. Since I gather the e-cat is considered a cold fusion device no patent office at present considers the technology legitimate. Wouldn't t Rossi have to do something like demonstrate the device in front of a bunch patent lawyers? And if so, couldn't such a demonstration be performed right now at the U of Bologna while independent testing is being conducted? ...at the same time? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:How can 30% of nickel in Rossi’s reactor be transmuted into copper?
From Harry How can 30% of nickel in Rossi’s reactor be transmuted into copper? http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473 The Lone Proton...masked marvel. Hi Ho! Hydrino! (Sorry, Silver. You're still my favorite horse.) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:So close, so far away
Interesting speculation, Jones. I never read Stolper's book. Nevertheless, I remember his scrappy posts from the old Yahoo Hydrino group, particularly as he incessantly went after Zimmerman. Does Stolper's book reveal any kind of useful detail as to what kind of additional catalysts might have been used in the old 40 pound Ni-H cell? I'm wondering if one were to do some data mining on the matter one could possibly end up with a reasonable facsimile/extrapolation as to the chemistry Rossi Co. are currently using as a catalyst for their e-Cat. Is such an extrapolation appropriate here, or not? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
From Jones: The mundane reason for the appearance of iron an[d] copper is electromigration. Seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw. I must apologize for not being sufficiently clear as to what I was really questioning: What is generating the massive amount of heat? I gather the responsible party still remains an unknown quality - especially considering your concluding remark: Even hydrinos would result in an isotopic imbalance. ...which also seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw. Regarding the hydrino theory, my first impression would be to conclude (with absolutely no math to back this conclusion up with) that not enough hydrogen was consumed (into hydrinos) that would explain the massive amount of heat recorded. I hope someone can clarify whether my uneducated assumption on this point is valid or not. (I suspect it's incorrect.) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
From Stephen ... It's more likely that Levi is in on the gag than that transmutation from nickel to copper produced natural isotope ratios in the ash. The former merely requires the assumption that a few humans are acting unusually stupid (which happens frequently). The latter requires something close to a miracle (and miracles are very rare). Stephen, why is it that when expected results (such as in this latest case, the predicted isotopic shifts don't materialize the way we assume they should) the suspicion of fraud, misinterpretation of the data, and/or collusion once again become the most likely explanations for you. From what I have read there remains a lot of carefully measured heat that can't be explained chemically. Your apparent sudden capitulation would seem to imply that all that carefully measured heat must be fraudulent as well. I so, I suspect many would beg to differ with you on that point. Correct me if I have misinterpreted you, but associating theoretical expectations that suddenly don't pan out as a reason to suddenly invalidate the heat measurements, as you seem to be doing here, strikes me as a defensive tactic, to protect one's psyche from anticipated disappointment. For me, based on the fact that the heat measurements appear to be extremely accurate, the only logical conclusion that I can arrive it is the simple fact that we don't yet have a decent theory as to what is really happening. I can live with such mysteries... for now. A theoretical mystery... what fun! I can live with such mysteries because the heat measurements appear to be very accurate. For me, that's what's important. Fire... Good! Fire is your friend! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
Stephen, Urgent Addendum: Just to be clear on this point, my speculation was pertaining to whether you were now suspicious of the HEAT measurements. In truth I must admit the fact that you seem to be questioning the isotopic shifts, not the actual HEAT measurements. My apologies if I have misinterpreted your intentions. I often misinterpret. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
From Jones From: Terry Blanton If the reactor vessel is stainless steel, is the Cu migrating through the walls of the vessel to contaminate the Ni? That is probably net necessary. It looks to me like a copper pipe, for heat transfer, may go into the reactor itself. Plus, if I am not mistaken the patent application says something similar. Makes me wonder if some other metal other than copper could be substituted, for testing purposes. Wouldn't that be reasonably easy to do? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Sergio Focardi interviewed (not yet in english!)
From Akira, ... - Focardi doesn't know the exact composition of the catalyser used in the reactor (in addition to nickel powder) or what it does exactly but he suspects that it's a chemical compound promoting nickel's adsorption of hydrogen in atomic form rather than molecular. Maybe something got lost in the translation here, but find it surprising that Focardi apparently doesn't know the composition of the catalyzer used in Rossi's reactor. Are we to assume Rossi hasn't told him? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Sergio Focardi interviewed (not yet in english!)
From Akira On 2011-04-06 18:58, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: I'm quite sure Focardi told that he doesn't know the composition (nor he wants to know - he added). By catalyzer I mean the unknown compound which enhances the nickel-hydrogen reaction. Really! Does he say why he doesn't want to know? The only speculation that makes any sense to me might be for personal safety reasons. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Swedish physicists on the E-cat: It's a nuclear reaction / The used powder contains ten percent copper
Jones sez: ... Wow, gotta luv that the Rossi apparatus does work - apparently - but doesn't it just scream cheap? Off the rack at K-Mart cheap... Heh! It will probably result in an extra month of delays over at DoE getting their s**t in gear... particularly if they deem to look at the latest photos. At first glance NOBODY in their right mind would logically conclude that Rossi's device could be legitimate. Looks more like a badly designed sump pump than an energy catalyzer. Actually, that is one of the real beauties of it - to my warped mentality - getting the job done adequately with the least investment. Indeed. And if he had used expensive stainless vacuum high-grade physics lab gear? - guess what, sport fans - It probably would not have worked ! Seriously, I would be willing to bet that the copper migration is what makes it work. No kidding. They should try stainless vacuum high-grade gear - sans copper too. See what happens! All bets are off! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Are you falling for it?
Regarding Terry recent breakthrough... OMG! The resemblance is uncanny! This Island Earth was a great SF flick for its time. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047577/ http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.funwithfilms.com/images/this-island-earth1.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.funwithfilms.com/this-island-earth/h=446w=650sz=62tbnid=TkxuNR1pKCUUNM:tbnh=94tbnw=137prev=/search%3Fq%3Dthis%2Bisland%2Bearth%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Duzoom=1q=this+island+earthhl=enusg=__wjrl8N_tgoIuja1mZ6ZQk4TgHQg=sa=Xei=GRmfTa-LNIa-tgeepuWWAwved=0CFkQ9QEwBQ http://tinyurl.com/5wf98dg BTW, those high forehead aliens reminded me of Adamski's Venusian brothers. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:physics engines for dummies
http://www.wildbunny.co.uk/blog/2011/04/06/physics-engines-for-dummies/ Good primer. Reveals computer algorithms used. Have fun messing around with interactive animated white balls! The interactive chaotic pendulum engine near the end of the article is my favorite. Teaches you a'lot about chaotic systems. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Are you falling for it?
From Harry: How does it [This Island Earth] compare to Forbidden Planet? Similar caliber. However, FP is a notch better, IMHO! Monsters from the ID! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Rossi's eCat is Steam Punk
Culturally speaking, Rossi's eCat (eKittin) technology reminds me of a very popular science fiction genre known as Steam Punk. Steam Punk has its origins that can be traced back many decades. Curiously, within recent history, the genre has become a thriving sub-culture within the science fiction community. Steam Punk has spawned many popular novels and films in recent history. Basically speaking, Steam Punk exists as an alternate universe, one that seems to revolve around what might be called old world technology, technology based more on the rules of alchemy rather than Quantum Mechanics. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_punk This comparison/revelation hit me like a ton of bricks last night while my wife read out-loud a brief passage from a Steam Punk novel she is currently reading. I found myself thinking about the recent PDF report which includes photos of several eCats in various stages of having been dismantled. The visual flavor looking at all of those dirty copper pipes couldn't have been any closer to what steam punk technology is all about. This is speculation on my part, but it would seem as if many gifted Steam Punk writers, without realizing it, have tapped into an alternate universe - as if some part of their psyche unconsciously sensed the distinct possibility that this other world must actually exist somewhere for real. They longed to pull that reality into our universe where we could explore it in more detail. Perhaps their novels helped sparked unconscious speculation on the matter, eventually resulting in bringing Steam Punk technology to fruition in our universe. FWIW, a sub-culture such as Steam Punk doesn't thrive as well as it does unless there is something substantial underneath it. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:A right wing conservative publication takes notice of Rossi
Looks like a super conservative xenophobic anti communist right-wing tea party web site has taken notice of Rossi's work - briefly that is. Scroll down to the eleventh paragraph: http://americandaily.com/index.php/article/4861 Seems to me that if such groups are at least aware of the event, and that many of them view it in a cautiously positive manner, I take it as encouraging news for Rossi Co. Possibly less trouble and/or resistance when things start heating up. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: Fwd: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat CATALYST Speculation Thread
From Peter Gluck: ... I don't uinderstend exactly your idea with the prper pressure- they add hydrogen, this is adsorbed in part, you cannot add exactly a dosis of hydrogen- but surely there is a best practices type protocol here. My apologies, Peter. Let me try to clarify my previous pressure statement. Since the Vort Collective IS known to occasionally speculate extravagantly at times... Unorthodox Rossi Explanation Follows The following is a massively edited transcript originating from a completely unorthodox and totally unscientific source. Never the less, this unorthodox source occasionally gives me interesting tidbits of information that have caused me to ponder, people, events history in ways that I might not have pondered otherwise. Therefore, - and for what it's worth... ;-) I was told me that some of the spurious results that have plagued the CF community for the past 20 years is due to the fact that the process is extremely susceptible to environmental/weather changes. This includes high and low pressure weather patterns. The implication was that when a mundane weather pattern, such as when a cold front passes through the lab, the environmental conditions could affect the experiment in seemingly unpredictable but dramatic ways. When I heard this statement it suggested to me that it might be useful to go back through some of the old experiments and determine what the weather barometric pressure might have been at the time the certain experiments suddenly began generating massive amounts of heat. I'm not sure if this would be helpful however since I gather many labs had numerous experiments running simultaneously - and some would suddenly take off while the others remained stubbornly dormant. Obviously, there must be other environmental factors at play as well. The same unorthodox source implied that the current Rossi process still has impurities (contaminants in the nickel powder - I believe). These contaminants need to be refined out of the chemistry in order to make the process more robust than it currently is (as if it isn't robust enough as-is!). They have no doubt that those impurities will be located and removed. They also cautioned that this particular process, if not engineered properly, is capable of generating harmful toxic impurities that could be released into the environment. Such unwanted contaminants could enter the water table where it could remain harmful for centuries. It was not clear to me if the impurities being discussed might have been chemical and/or radioactive in nature. I suspect it might have been the latter - meaning radioactive. They stated the necessary engineering that would be needed to make the technology safe should not difficult to engineer. Some here might find it amusing to ponder the fact that this unorthodox source stated that what Rossi and Focardi have been pursuing is nothing more than carrying on a centuries-old (old world) European tradition, one that is close to the art of what we in the western world would call alchemy. (This BTW, should help explain why I have recently been mentioning Steam Punk! in some of my Vort posts.) Old farts like Rossi and Focardi are instinctively comfortable with how to manipulate these old-world alchemical technologies. It's is right up their alley. Such alchemical explorations at present tend to baffle modern western world scientific sensibilities. Nevertheless, I'm sure nuclear explanations will eventually be determined. When believable nuclear explanations are theorized the western world will probably start feeling much more comfortable with what's going on! 8-0. Economically speaking, I got the distinct impression that they predict that this technology will eventually be accepted by the world, this despite initial economic resistance to marginalize it. Most of the initial resistance, I was told, will NOT be due to the newness of technology itself, but rather due to the complicated global economic issues that will have to be addressed first. We have to find ways to make the new technology profitable within the current economic institutions in power in order to move it into a reality. /Unorthodox Rossi Explanation Follows I hope that some of the Vort Collective enjoyed the entertainment! And now, back to regularly scheduled programming. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Musical Electric Chairs ? CORRECTION
Jones sez: ... In effect, he [Rossi] has trumped Mills at his own game. Agreed, except for the caveat that if Mills' can get his CIHT process off the ground BLP might still have a fighting chance. It might eventually turn into a practical evaluation of determining whether in Rossi's low-tech system of heating steam to turn turbines to generate electricity is more complicated than Mills' more exotic system of generating electricity directly via through a complicated mechanical catalytic regeneration approach. At this stage of the game both approaches appear to have inherent technological complexities that must be mastered. Different approaches + competition = a good thing. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Is it nuclear, or is it Memorex?
Some of us may still remember that classic video add where Ella Fitzgerald sings a hearty tune. It's a spontaneous ditty which ends with the shattering of a crystal glass as Ella belts out a final high note. The commercial subsequently proceeds to play back a Memorex tape recording of Fitzgerald's voice. The playback causes another crystal glass to shatter. The commercial ends, asking us: Is it live or is it Memorex! The burning question many Vorts are probably asking themselves these days is whether Rossi's mysterious e-cats devices are due to live nuclear effects... or are we in the process of recording the equivalent of another Memorex moment in the zany annals of fissix. IOW, does the Rossi effect generate classic nuclear reactions, or will it usher in brand new forms of physics which, due to our current lack of understanding, seems to mimic nuclear effects. I'm surprised to discover the fact that I'm coming around to a tentative notion that that what's probably happening is NOT nuclear at all... at least not in the classic sense. There seems to be considerable disagreement as to whether copper and other elements, like iron, were really being transmuted from nickel - or did these extraneous elements (what might be called contaminants) simply migrate over and intermingle with the nickel powder. The obvious catch, the huge elephant that seems to be missing in many theoretical equations currently being bandied about is: how-cum no harmful radiation appears to have been generated? What's responsible for all of Rossi's glorious but unaccounted for heat? It's my understanding that the amount of radiant heat Rossi had to have been exposed to over the many years he was tinkering away in his lab... well, if this really is a nuclear effect he should be very thoroughly dead by now. Not only that, he should probably be sealed within a lead lined coffin and buried deep under a lot of neutron absorbing earth and concrete. At present we find ourselves feverishly speculating: Could the heat be the result of harnessing a mysterious and not understood casimir effect? Could it be due to ZPE flagrantly exposing itself out in the macro world? Could it be due to a variant of the Widom-Larsen effect, where ultra-low-momentum neutrons ramble aimlessly about within the nickel lattice like dimwitted bulls stumbling about in a china chop? Could it be due to not well understood quantum mechanical nuclear effects (fusion/lenr/canr)? Could it be due to pesky no-see-um hydrinos? Or is it possibly due to one of my favorites: alchemy, the Steam Punk variety! There exists a plethora of theories all doing their best to explain what's happening. No doubt we are likely to be exposed to several more before scientific consensus begins the arduous task of whittling through the selections - down to something more manageable. In the meantime, it's important we do our best to maintain an impartial, objective perspective as we ponder the latest special of the day. Exploring the ramifications of each new theory and the explanations that go along with them is both healthy and a crucial part of the RA process, particularly when we are confronted with something as outrageously hot as Rossi's e-Cat device. To restate the obvious, we are probably in for a period of outrageous discovery, the kind of scientific discovery that is sure to ruffle many an established feather. As an honorable member of the peanut gallery it would seem that I have only one viable option left to me: Gawk! My wife is rustling up a bucket of popcorn and a soda from the concession stand while I empty my bladder in the men's room. We're looking to seat ourselves close to front row. There's still time. Previews and coming attractions are still playing - to be followed by a short-feature cartoon, from Pixar of course! But don't dally too long! The main feature is about to start, possibly in less than 12 months. Tick, tick, tick... Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Tarallo Water Diversion Fake
From Stephen: ... http://www.toysteam.net/wid15final.wmv Great stuff! Rossi should get a 4 kW steam engine for his next demo. Hey, if he does that, he can close the loop, and get rid of the external power supply for the heater! ... Oh, the irony of it all! Granted, to prove that OU exists we all want to see Rossi close the loop on his gadget. However, as has been tragically revealed at the Fukushima nuclear plant, for safety reasons, completely closing the loop is not a good idea. I seem to recall Rossi expressed similar safety issues in terms of maintaining temperature stability within the e-cat reactor core. Meanwhile, I must confess the fact that I'm still confused over the matter of how the supplied external heater actually helps stabilize Rossi's reactor core. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:What Rossi Says list... add emissions seen in the 100keV-300keV range
From Mark: Rossi: No radioactivity has been found in the residual metals, it is true, but the day after the stop of the operation. In any case you are right, if 59-Cu is formed from 58-Ni we should have the couples of 511 keV at 180° and we never found them, while we found keV in the range of 100-300 keV. Is the 100 - 300 KeV range within the speculated reality rage of hydrino formation? Just curious. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Is it nuclear, or is it Memorex?
Robin, Harry, Just to clarify some of my ramblings... My use of the term alchemy was an oversimplified reference to the desire to transmute common elements into valuable elements... i.e. the desire to transmute lead into gold. The point I was trying to imply is that the old-world alchemical (almost ritualistic) pursuit of creating gold from common elements is, in a sense, metaphorically equivalent to the new-world pursuit of generating lots of clean cheap excess heat, or energy. I would even go so far as to speculate here that what Rossi seems to be doing with his e-cat reactors is analogous to an alchemical ritual - in the sense that if you follow the recipe to the letter, and in the right sequence, it would seem that you can end up generating lots of heat. No one yet knows why these ritualistic sequences-of-events work in the manner that they do. That's what rituals are really good at doing: Producing a desired result, particularly when the fundamental physics that might scientifically explain what's happening remains (a present) a baffling mystery. Alas, I've often noted that some of the metaphors I conjure up occasionally cause more confusion than their intended purpose. Win a few metaphors... lose a few metaphors. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Quality control in cold fusion.
Horace sez: ... As to Rossi, his quality control rested with the only person with the skills to produce his nickel catalyst mix, an old man in his 80's working away on an old machine. My imagination sees this happening in a poorly lit room somewhere in a decaying rustic European building. That's the way it should be in the film version anyway. 8^) ...a decaying rustic European building out in the country. A barn. With an occasional pigeon dropping added to the mixture. Ah! The catalyst! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Deflated P-e-P
From Jones: ... 3) However, it is occasionally possible to shoot protons at each other with the right speed and quark positions so that they latch on to each other - held in place by the Strong Force. Without one of the protons converting into a neutron? I thought that was impossible. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Heat transfer in a water heater and nuclear plant
Jones sez: ... Wow - I realize that this Rossi device could be the most important development in Energy for some extended time ... hmmm, the Neolithic age comes to mind, according to Randy :) ... but this may be the first time in Vortician-land for having a play-by-play and ongoing commentator to moderate the game. ah... a self-appointed moderator... for what it's worth. ;-) I was hoping it would be Ines Sainz... Oh well, maybe next year g Yes, nice e-Cats! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Heat transfer in a water heater and nuclear plant
On a more serious note, someone who may have achieved some street creed with Rossi might want to pop this interesting heat transfer question to Ross at his blog. It might be interesting to see how Rossi responds. Could be highly revealing. Peter Gluck, comes to mind as the volunteer for his dangerous mission! ;-) Perhaps we should first wait for Beene's forthcoming heat-transference data before popping the question. Heat transference is indeed a tricky engineering problem. As volume increases it becomes vital to increase the amount of surface area where heat transfer can occur. Thus heat flanges and fins are created to assist in this endeavor. Internal cooling coils and tubes can also be built into solid blocks of volume, to assist in the dissipation of heat. However, there is a subtle point that might have been overlooked here. Consider the flip side. As overall volume decreases excess surface area becomes LESS critical because what volume exists can more easily escape - since all volume is relatively close to a surface area. Therefore... it IS conceivable from my POV that Rossi's smaller e-kittins might be able to more efficiently transfer heat due to their inherent smaller volume as compared to the bigger sisters, the e-cat. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Fuel rod surface area versus 1 liter bottle
From Jones, From Rothwell: I don't bet. I debate technical issues based on experimental evidence, not crackpot theories that predict water heaters don't work. If you will not give us a plausible reason why this calorimetry might be wrong by a factor of 1000 then you lose this debate. This “1000 times” thing is an insane slander with no basis in fact, as are these other silly pronouncements that you have dreamed up, and that is part of why I cannot take any of your “teapot arguments” seriously. That they were off by a factor of three, due to the wrong gauge - is what I have said over and over. Wet steam is not dry steam, and a factor of 3 is not a factor of 1000. Please, in the interest of your own integrity – move on to something more productive than inventing straw man arguments. When the Swedish experiments are complete, and there is little doubt that they will be performed to higher standards - then I will remind you of how far off you were to think the Bologna demo was accurate. I am, of course, emotionally predisposed to want to side with Mr. Rothwell for the simple reason that, well... who wouldn't want COP to be higher than what Jones is suggesting - even if Jones' COP is OU as well. (Just not as much! ;-) ) I fully admit the possibility that my emotional investment might be hindering me from observing what might be called the obvious facts in a more objective manner. With that confession fully disclosed I would like to add a few personal observations: Correct me if I'm wrong on this point but I seem to recall second opinions have been posted here that seem to favor conclusions that suggest 15kW is not out of the question. For example, See Robin's calculations: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg45116.html Jones, what personally bothers me about some of the conclusions you seem to be drawing here is not the actual conclusions themselves, per say, but the manner in which you are attempting to conclude your conclusions. Beside the disquieting fact that your expert at present remains anonymous, and as such we cannot ascertain his credentials... in your last paragraph you seem to be implying that you have become an unofficial spokesperson for the Swedish board currently investigating Rossi's e-Cat device. Do you speak on behalf of these Swedes? Have they personally granted you special coverage that allows you to draw the conclusions you have been implying? Such support reminds me of a similar issue that has been hotly contested within the Vort Collective: It's vaguely reminiscent of Krivit's support of the W-L theory, after presumably having been granted special access; the key point being: special access to what. Seemingly speaking on behalf of the Swedes in the manner that you apparently are doing has a tendency at least from my POV of raising some questions as to how objective are you really being here as well. All we can really do at this point is wait for the Swedes to present their findings. Perhaps we can then draw more accurate conclusions. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: Rothwell goes into brain freeze
From Jed: ... ... I believe the reaction works best at around 600°C and it conks out above that. Can someone clarify the following: What is the internal temperature the reactor cell has to reach in order to initiate the Rossi reaction? I thought the reaction takes over when the temperature reaches the neighborhood of around 400 C. Or am I all wet on that. If it IS 400 C, it would seem to me that the reaction then increasing to 600 C... a mere +200 C more, (before it conks out) does not strike me as being terribly efficient. I must be missing something vital in regards to understanding the physics of calometry here. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:A wiki for compiling Rossi's hints
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Andrea_A._Rossi_Cold_Fusion_Generator:Rossi's_Hints To everyone who worked on creating this Wiki Rossi Hints directory. THANKS A BUNCH! I would think it should be fairly easy to update it. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]: shrinking felines
From gotjosh: Its really entertaining and all, but do you two really have to pollute every single thread with this stuff? are you twin brothers from a former life who just bicker constantly as a way of showing love? Adding to Terry's Kommentary Jones and Rothwell have been known to spar with each other on occasion. (This is nothing new! I suspect they simply rub each other the wrong way, and there's nothing much we can do about that other than not get between them! ;-) ) I personally perceive this particular incident as having gotten, perhaps, a little more heated than usual, but not unduly so. Heated or not, I tend to learn interesting stuff digesting the POVs expressed from both sides of the fence. Keep in mind the fact there really was no character assassination going on here, the hallmark of a flame war. The only items being assassinated here were the other person's opinions and personal perceptions concerning the accumulation of scientific evidence (or more precisely the alleged lack of it). As one can see, opinions on such matters can occasionally get passionate within the Vort Collective. Personally, I didn't perceive this latest exchange as pollution. More like an unstable but interesting warm front. ;-) Speaking of warm fronts, we could use one in the Midwest. There's snow on the ground in Madison, Wisconsin. I thought we were done with this white stuff! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RE: Rothwell goes into brain freeze
Jones sez ... ...all of this nonsense is explained by Rothwell picking out an irrelevant detail in a long thread, and ignoring everything else - in order to cover his trail in case the Swedish testing does conform to my prediction. Defense Team: Your honor, I object! The prosecution is describing the speculated motivations of the defendant. Judge: Sustained. Prosecution is advised to swear in the defendant, where you can then ask him in the chair if this was his intention. Otherwise, stop speculating. We are not anywhere near making closing statements. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Flow calorimetry cannot detect the power of the cooling water circulation pump
From Jones: ... We cannot assume honesty from a man like Rossi who is seldom honest. Not to mention – this demo was Rossi’s tribute event to Focardi – maybe a kind of pre-eulogy. Rossi had every incentive to fudge the results, to make it look better than it was, or in case something went wrong. Jones, correct me if I have misunderstood your position on this matter but it seems to me that much of your analysis hinges on a personal belief that Rossi is, at heart, motivated to behave in a dishonest way. You have been implying that Rossi is a dishonest person. Obviously, we can all capiche the fact that Rossi's is hiding crucial details. His deliberate withholding of crucial (proprietary) information obviously frustrates many, especially those who are trying to discern how his elusive e-kitties work. Few here dispute the fact that some of Rossi's commentary is contradictory. Many would even go far as saying that certain actions on Rossi's part seem to lack credibility, such as an apparent bogus engineering degree issued from what I gather has been discovered to have been a diploma mill. Mr. Rothwell certainly has eluded to such faults plenty of times over the months. I gather such faults contradictions have driven him nuts. However, and IMHO, to openly speculate that Rossi is being deliberately dishonest, and in the manner that you seem to be doing strikes me as almost prosecutorial in nature. It lacks a certain level analytical objectivity. It seems to me that you have been going after Rossi character as if you were the District Attorney for some county board, or government consumer protection agency. It's as if you have received complaints from sources who have been grumbling over the fact that the constant string of ramblings from Rossi's blog don't always add up... therefore, Rossi must be hiding something. And if Rossi's hiding something, that must mean he's Rossi is a dishonest person. Therefore if we assume Rossi is dishonest what's motivating Rossi's dishonesty. Suddenly, the mind starts conjuring up a plethora of justifications, many based on fragmentary bits and pieces of information previously gleaned from Rossi's ramblings. You are now speculating OUT LOUD that Rossi is motivated to behave dishonestly as a tribute to his partner, Focardi, who is in ill health. How far do you want to take such personal speculation? Personally, I would suggest that you might want to start backing up subjective speculations of this nature with actual objective PROOF. Otherwise, you are in danger of eroding your own credibility when it comes to convincing others as to your scientific analysis of the disputed heat measurements. Expressing these kinds of subjective speculation only opens the door allowing many to wonder if your scientific analysis is just as subjective. Judge Johnson is now leaving the bench. Here come de judge! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:New from Larsen
From Jones: http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/lattice-energy-llcnickelseed-lenr-networksapril-20-2011 Impressive presentation! But is it built on a foundation of sand? Boy, these guys must have a high quality PR firm, staffed with multi-media whizzes at work 24/7… but are they trying to salvage a brain-dead theory, and apply it to NiH by capitalizing on the Rossi frenzy? Big bucks going into fancy pantsy PR presentations combined with zero good lab work does not look good for the future of the field. I'm not sure everyone would agree with ...zero good lab work, but I'm definitely not the expert here. When I look at Larsen's slide show the graphics that always intrigue me are the ones shown on plate 14 pertaining to Five-peak mass-spectrum: ULM neutron 'fingerprint' - l ...What Larsen proponents call the 'smoking gun'. The findings would seem to suggest that there might be some physical evidence to back up their claim. (However, I'm not qualified to pass judgment, yea or nay.) What are the prevailing thoughts on what is actually being represented here? IS this possibly a 'smoking gun'? And if not, why not? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:New from Larsen
From Albedo: Finally, spectral data to look at! I can show this to some of the ten-pound heads I work with - one of whom is well-recognized in the neutron detection field...if I can get him to take this seriously. If I could get the actual data, I have several state of the art tools I can use to analyse gamma spectra and neutron signatures, and perhaps even neutron spectra. I have been out of the loop with what's been going on lately, so if such data has come to light and I missed it, I apologise. Is there any spectral data (raw, not in presentation form) available yet? Larsen has presented these graphics for a while. However, you are the first person I'm aware of who has noticed them to the point of actually wanting to get a second opinion. Good luck in your pursuits! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Strange position of heater in mini-Rossi device
The configuration might not be strange at all. One possible explanation: My take is that Rossi's e-kitten reactor cell might NOTbe positioned within the center of the copper pipe. The reactor cell might actually have been engineered in the shape of cylinder, or a ring that fits snugly adjacent within the external wall of the copper tube. Keep in mind: The copper tubing does appear to be fatter at the reactor junction. the water flows within the center of the reactor's cylindrical hole. This scenario would allow the auxiliary electric heater to heat the reactor cell directly, since the water is actually flowing within the interior of the reactor cell's cylindrical hole. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Strange position of heater in mini-Rossi device
From Jed: You mean, the cell is a torus? With the cooling water flowing through the middle? Yes. I believe that is what Ed Storms may have concluded. (I don't speak for him.) I thought there might be a problem getting the powder into a torus, because you can't access the bottom, but people who have experience using this kind of powder tell me it flows almost like a liquid. It does not cake up. So that's not a problem. I envisioned something with the consistency of wheat flower, but that is not what it resembles. Additional commentary: From Harry: Isn't that the same configuration Jones imagined? Dunno! Perhaps great minds think alike. ;-) If so, my/our configuration raises other equally vexing questions. If the e-kitten reactor cell is indeed engineered as a torus with a hole in the center for the water to flow through, such a configuration strikes me as being extremely inefficient thermally speaking. Only the heat radiating within the central ring of the reactor will transfer to the flowing water. Reactor heat radiating away from the exterior outer ring wall would not. Meanwhile, the external wall is where the auxiliary heater is positioned, and where it is transferring its own externally generated heat INTO the reactor cell. To be honest I find this entire configuration weird! Whatever... Jed has my sympathies. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Strange position of heater in mini-Rossi device
From Jed: You mean, the cell is a torus? With the cooling water flowing through the middle? The problem with that would be: Why bother putting the copper shell around the steel cell? If it is a torus, you can dispense with the copper shell, and put the heater directly on the outside of the stainless steel cell. In the 12 kW tankless water heater, the two electric resistance heaters have a torus shape, with a copper pipe running through the middle. Ah, yes, but I just had another brain far... I mean storm! The exterior copper pipe lining/jacket which encases the external reactor torus wall might assist in the transfer of reactor heat to the adjacent flowing water. If the reactor torus had been built entirely outside of the copper tubing holding the flowing water only the internal torus wall of the reactor would be able to transfer heat to the adjacent water. The external wall of the torus configuration would not be able to transfer ANY of its heat to the flowing water. Just a thought. Someone who knows how to run Finite Element Heat Transfer software should run several simulations to see how generated heat might transfer using various reactor torus configurations... such as with copper pipe entirely encasing the reactor ring... and also with the copper pipe only within the internal hole of the torus. Probably a big difference between these two configurations. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Strange position of heater in mini-Rossi device
From Akira From Steven V Johnson: The exterior copper pipe lining/jacket which encases the external reactor torus wall might assist in the transfer of reactor heat to the adjacent flowing water. If the reactor torus had been built entirely outside of the copper tubing holding the flowing water only the internal torus wall of the reactor would be able to transfer heat to the adjacent water. The external wall of the torus configuration would not be able to transfer ANY of its heat to the flowing water. I suspect the electric heater is not there to heat water, but to heat hydrogen and increase its pressure inside the reactor and therefore controlling the reaction together with water flow (which cools the reactor). Once the Ni-H reaction starts, water is heated by it. This is an intriguing hypothesis. I certainly agree with you that the heater is NOT there to heat the water! Increasing heater power and decreasing water flow probably stimulate Ni-H reaction, and vice-versa. I find it difficult to believe there would be any flowing water between the heater element and the e-Kitten reactor. If water was between them, it would be EXTREMELY difficult to raise the reactor cell's temperature much above 100 C. The water would have to be under tremendous pressure, like a pressure cooker, in order to increase temperatures significantly. Why would any mechanical engineer want do design a thermal transfer configuration like that! It's totally counter productive. Therefore, and IMHO, the auxiliary heating elements is most likely in direct physical contact with Rossi's e-Kittins. Therefore, a torus shape does seem to be the likely solution. The apparent fact that there is copper pipe lining between the heater and torus shaped reactor will allow heat to transfer fairly efficiently. In fact, having the copper between the heater and the reactor might help transfer some of the reactor's internal heat to the adjacent water as heat begins transferring /propagating down the copper pipe and into the water. Now, whether the auxiliary heating element is there to heat the nickle powder or the hydrogen - THAT is indeed a burning question! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Another contenda? - Cold fusion: Is Burnaby lab on brink of clean nuclear energy?
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Cold+fusion+Burnaby+brink+clean+nuclear+energy/4660666/story.html http://tinyurl.com/3n8c7j2 Excerpts: When I phoned the company to request an interview, Michael Delage, their vice-president of business development, politely declined, offering the apologetic: Call me in six months, and I might have something to tell you. His resistance didn't surprise me. I had already been told by one of General Fusion's chief investors, Vancouver's Chrysalix Energy Venture Capital, that the company has been laying low since BCBusiness magazine ran an in-depth profile on them in February. According to the article, aptly titled The Audacity of General Fusion, the company was founded in 2002 by Michel Laberge, a highly respected Vancouver physicist and engineer who earned his doctorate in the obscure field of plasma physics at the University of B.C. some 20 years ago. The story details how Laberge decided to quit his high-profile job as senior physicist and principal engineer at a multimillion dollar Vancouver digital imaging technology company as he approached his 40th birthday in 2001, because he didn’t want to design another thermal head. He wanted to solve the world’s energy problems. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Kudos all around
My Gmail reader didn't notice any odd visual spacing problems with Beene's text. Nor does my MS Outlook 2007 reader. But yes, Alan's site is a valuable contribution to the cause. Thanks, Alan! Re gar ds Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Kudos all around
Regarding Alan's site: http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_frames_v322.php I noticed the Printable PDF version link appears to be broken. Any chance of fixing that? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Another contenda? - Cold fusion: Is Burnaby lab on brink of clean nuclear energy?
My own personal assessment: CF? HF? Something else??? Who knows. After reading the article several times I still don't know WTF they are talking about. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Home Insurance for Those Living 'Off The Grid'
Potential sign of the times? http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2011/04/15/home-insurance-living-grid/ In their article I think foxbusiness is completely missing the real ramifications of what is coming down the pipeline. Nevertheless, and IMHO, home insurance with off the grid coverage is likely to become a booming business as CF reactors begin to hit the consumer market. I'd certainly consider getting coverage! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Mills takes the fifth
From Ron Wormus: ... If I read Mill's 5th force experiment correctly he is stating that he has shown that gravitational mass inertial mass are not equivalent which supports Brightsen. ...and there goes Einstein's Theory of Relativity - melting into a puddle of goo. Oh, what a world! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Comic gets it right
Jones sez: ... OTOH - we keep getting back to the problem of NRC approval, or even UL approval. With proved particle detection and real fusion, then we are back to being years away from having the device approved in the USA. Adding more to the goose chase, let us not forget the fact that there are those who would like to denigrate the word fusion, and replace it with what they believe is a more accurate term: nuclear reaction. Perhaps if we all start calling the process a nuclear reaction the Underwriter's Laboratory will feel less threatened (because it's not really fusion) ... and Wall Mart can start marketing the Rossi-Tea Pot sooner. Clear as mud? Making society richer and safer through the skills of political science! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:ROSSI FAKE or REAL
From Alan, I'll fix it on Monday ... UNLESS, of course, there's a new report to evaluate! http://lenr.qumbu.com/fake_rossi_ecat_frames_v323.php http://lenr.qumbu.com Updated -- with PDF file. (why would anyone want to print out the 60+ pages ???) Works! Thanks! Sometimes a PDF format (in my view) is preferable regardless of whether the objective is to actually print the contents or not. EReaders, particularly those with large displays, are likely to take advantage of PDF formats as well. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Comic gets it right
From Mark: ... ... and one can start by simply scanning all the comment sections of websites where a CF story ran, and summarize each skeptic's question or statement, and counter it with the facts. Keep it short and sweet, with links to references... the list of Rossi's 'clues' was put together in a matter of a week... perhaps 10 days. Wouldn't take long to do something similar, and I think I've got the perfect title: Cold Fusion or Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Fact vs Fiction -- Reality vs Perception Very good idea: Keep it short and sweet, with links to references. One of my biggest posting behavior faults is the fact that I occasionally don't know when to shut up. The objective can get lost in a plethora of details - particularly if one feels obliged to correct every innuendo false statement - all in a single post. That's what the links are for - for those who want to follow-up with the details. ...and be relentless. Jed can be pretty good at that. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Mother Jones: The Science of Why We Don't Believe Science
Pretty decent article: http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-mooney Excerpt: In other words, when we think we're reasoning, we may instead be rationalizing. Or to use an analogy offered by University of Virginia psychologist Jonathan Haidt: We may think we're being scientists, but we're actually being lawyers (PDF). Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Another interview to Focardi
From Terry Focardi: The gamma rays were not there because we were able to eliminate them by putting the lead. In the experiments we carried out with the engineer Rossi gamma were always there, but they were so little intense than the natural radioactivity, which with small thicknesses of lead preventing them we have eliminated any possible harm to human health. Google translation. If a real human had done the translation they guy would have been kicked out onto the sidewalk in less than two seconds. Nevertheless, we all pretty much understand what was really meant. We automatically give Google's AI wiggle room... to be a little creative in how it interprets the source text. ;-) It's almost like a kind of reverse discrimination. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Colin Powell's WMD speech and other colossal technical mistakes
Terry sez: Anonymous Iraqi General: We need to make the Americans think we have WMD so they will come over and get rid of Sodamninsane. Heh... there might be some truth to that premise. ;-) Actually, the most intelligent conclusion I heard about that whole fiasco was that Saddam strategically lead his enemies to conclude that he actually possessed WMDs - primarily as a way to keep his enemies from thinking twice about invading Iraq. It was a difficult tightrope to walk, trying to convince the UN that there were no WMDs, while simultaneously hinting to his enemies that the exact opposite was true. Unfortunately for Saddam, it didn't matter what conclusion was actually correct. Iraq got invaded anyway. Written on the walls. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:97 E-CATS in Operation at 4 sites
Your typical locomotive engine is around 1 MW. It might be wise to skip the generation of electricity in the first wave of Rossi e-cat sales. Focus on the KISS principal. Simply focus on the economic advantages of cheap heat! Rossi-powered 1 MW furnaces might do very well if the goal is to show how to heat all sorts of large commercial establishments in the snow belt at a fraction of currents costs. ...This would include office buildings (commercial and governmental), manufacturing facilities, hotels, entertainment centers, shopping malls, swimming pools (Water parks - turn them into establishments that are open all year!), roads sidewalks, Speaking of roads, cyclical freezing, (expansion and contraction) of asphalt and the cracks that ensue is a major reason roads self-destruct and are in a constant state of repair in the snow belt. If heating tubes could be installed underneath many city roads, particularly where heavy traffic exists, it's conceivable that the added costs of keeping the asphalt continuously above freezing might actually turn out to be remarkably cost effective when compared to the inconveniences of having to constantly repair them, combined with the tangle of traffic disruptions that ensue, especially during rush hour. As they say in the Midwest: There are two seasons: Winter followed by road repair. Initially Rossi might do very well simply catering to the heating concerns of government big business. Once they are hooked, they won't care anymore... Joe Public will eventually be able to purchase their own furnaces. Later, eventually, the generation of cheap distributed electricity would simply be a natural evolution of the same technology. Going after the heating market first would hopefully give many power utilities the necessary time to gather their wits and devise ways to roll with the punches. The smart utilities would hopefully transform themselves into sleek new industries that focus on the selling of home e-cat power units that come with mandatory monthly service contracts - say $30/ month, which gives you within-the-hour 24/365 instant repair service should the power generator installed in the corner of your basement go on the fritz. I'd buy into such a service. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:97 E-CATS in Operation at 4 sites
From Robin: (Water parks - turn them into establishments that are open all year!), roads sidewalks, Please don't advocate stupid wastes of energy. Current known World Nickel reserves (140 million tons) are only going to last us 100 years *at our current rate of use*. If we start wasting energy on stupid things like heating roads and sidewalks, we will run out in no time flat. Assuming we don't mine the asteroid belt for Ni in the foreseeable future... Heating roads and swimming pools would indeed be a stupid waste of energy if current world nickel reserves would only supply us with 100 years of energy. I would also point out that if such analysis is correct any idea that the world is on the verge of acquiring a cheap source of energy via the the Rossi effect would, in my view, quickly evaporate into thin air as geologists began assessing how much Ni is actually accessible, economically speaking. Something doesn't add up here. Please correct me if I misunderstood you on this point, but from previous posts I got the sense from you (and perhaps from others as well) that this 100 year prediction is based on the premise that only certain Ni isotopes are responsible for the Rossi effect. The point being these very specific Ni isotopes are in short supply. Once those earthly-bound rare isotopes are transmuted, remaining Ni is worthless insofar as the Rossi Effect is concerned. Meanwhile, I gather there there remains considerable debate as to whether the specific isotopes you cited are indeed responsible. Some, in fact, aren't even sure Ni is actually being transmuted. I really don't know whose theory is correct. I don't know if any elements are actually being transmuted or fused at all. Is transmutation occurring? Maybe... probably... And in what ratios? Well, here are some darts and over there is a dart board. Knock yourself out! Adding more sauce to the goose, it seems to me that we have received contradictory data concerning the actual isotopic ratios involved, both before and after the Ross effect is taken into account. You OTOH seem to know for a fact that the theoretical Ni isotope analysis in question is indeed the correct theory. Really? I would turn the tables and suggest that it is premature to pass judgment on the speculations of others until we know for a fact that the speculated Ni isotope analysis is indeed the correct conclusion to draw. Let me put it this way. If you had stated that if future analysis eventually confirms the the fact that specific Ni isotopic ratios are responsible, it would indeed be foolish to heat roads and swimming pools with such limited energy resources, and I wouldn't have a beef with you. But until such analysis is proven correct please refrain from prematurely passing judgments on the speculations of others, particularly when such judgments are based on nothing more than speculation unproven theory. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Let us exercise some common sense in terms of dimensional analysis.
Axil, I like your systematic break down of the process. I sure don't know WTF is going on! ;-) I luv a good mystery. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Let us exercise some common sense in terms of dimensional analysis.
Correct me if I have misunderstood the most important relevant facts being debated here, but I believe Jones is making a strong claim that the percentages of isotopes allegedly found distributed throughout the copper found within one of Rossi's used e-cats clearly indicates that the Rossi-effect cannot be nuclear in origin. I've thought about this claim for a spell, but for now the only conclusion I can come up with is: Why not? What do any of us really know about how Mother Nature chooses to go about rearranging isotopes such as those belonging to copper. For all we know the speculated Rossi-Effect may exploit natural environmental conditions that tend to encourage a natural distribution of copper isotopes, such as what we tend to find in the ground. Seems to me that at this stage of the game we just don't have enough facts at hand to warrant any kind of a definitive conclusion about what is considered a nuclear effect and what isn't. Yeah, yeah, we know what the nuclear fizicists will say on the matter. What do they know. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Let us exercise some common sense in terms of dimensional analysis.
From Terry: On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:47 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Why not? You probably recall a test that was done on implants and some material which fell through the roof in Ufology. That test was an isotope ratio test. The claim was that elements originating outside our star system would likely have different isotope ratios. Fact is that (with possible exception of recently theorized x-ray transmutation) all elements other than hydrogen and possibly helium are created in stars. You and I are made of stardust. Those stellar processes which generate different isotopes depend on many factors including the size of the star. The composition and energy of the novae or supernovae would vary thus causing varying isotopic ratios. The age of the isotopes and their level of stability would also change those ratios. There is absolutely no reason isotopic ratios would he homogeneous. It's why ufology did the tests on those implants! Indeed, as an old veteran spectator of the UFO scene I do remember some of those test very well. I seem to recall that nothing of great significance ever came of those tests. I assume earthly origins were concluded. I'm mindful of the stardust hypothesis. I certainly don't dispute such conjecture either. Different stars... different isotope percentages. Makes sense to me. The point I was trying to get across was is the fact that there has occasionally been some lively conjecture on the premise that nature, right here on our own planet, might also provide natural mechanisms that could possibly induce transmutation, such as within in the earth's crust. I know nothing about how such a natural transmutational processes might go about happening, assuming that it DOES. The concept of transmutation itself is obviously controversial and highly speculative. Nevertheless, if natural transmutations DO occur, it seems to me that currently we know next to nothing about what kinds of isotopic rations might be involved. It also seems to me that some of us may be guilty of trying to pigeonhole this highly speculated transmutation distribution ratios based on star fusion physics. Such pigeonholing might turn out to be inappropriate. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Let us exercise some common sense in terms of dimensional analysis.
Hi Jones, Yeah, yeah, we know what the nuclear fizicists will say on the matter. What do they know. ;-) Well that's it, isn't it ... what do the experts know? Of course, one can throw all of nuclear physics out the door, but why? I'm certainly not arguing that we throw present knowledge of nuclear physics out the door. Unfortunately, I don't believe I've made myself sufficiently clear on this point. Ask yourself why do I want so badly for this to be nuclear? I don't. I don't know if it's nuclear, transmutation, Memorex, or some other interesting combination of all three. ;-) Do I want it to be nuclear so badly that I will throw out - not only all of nuclear physics, but common sense and logic as well? What do I gain by alienating most of science to blindly insist that it is nuclear, when there is no evidence for that ? Again, just to clear on this point. It certainly does not serve me to possess an invested interest nor an egotistical need to believe that the Rossi effect is a nuclear process. All I care about is making sure we verify as accurately as possible whether the heat is a genuine phenomenon, or not. Speaking of egos, hopefully I'm not egotistically invested in having to believe that nuclear physicists have it all figured out either. I doubt they do. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Let us exercise some common sense in terms of dimensional analysis.
Jones sez: ... My working hypothesis as of May 3, is that spillover hydrogen is formed catalytically, at a threshold temperature and collects in Nickel nanopores, gaining thermal energy from an unknown source at very close to the Curie point of the nickel. It is that simple. The reaction is temperature sensitive. It's an interesting hypothesis. Certainly worth exploring. Acksully, I kind'a hope your working-hypo is headed in the right direction as we try to get a better handle on the physics involved. I would infer from your hypo that its probably irrelevant what the percentages of nickle isotopes might be in Rossi's e-cats. It would also suggest that we will not be using up Earth's precious reserves of nickel anytime soon. Heading to the asteroid belt can wait a little longer! ...In the meantime it would imply that we can have as many heated sidewalks swimming pools as we want. Where's my inner tube. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Let us exercise some common sense in terms of dimensional analysis.
Regarding the latest on-going spat between Jed Jones ... Jed recently sed: ... I suggest you [Jones] treat this more like a scientific discussion and less like a legal proceedings, what with the best available evidence ... It's my understanding that Mr. Beene was at one time a lawyer. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg26922.html I think this is one of the reasons I occasionally find the Jed Jones show entertaining, even informative. Very different perceptions. Very different approaches on how to analyze a vexing puzzle. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:WAY OFF TOPIC and for Japanese readers only
Jed, Craig, Terry sez: England also has a wide range of dialects for such a small geographic area. Some areas were remarkably isolated well into the 20th century. A book about dialects that I read years ago said that in 1943, a linguist found an old guy in a village in southern England who had never heard of Winston Churchill. Do you ever watch Jay Leno? There are people in America who do not know the name of the president of the United States. My wife was at the manicurist yesterday near the Sugarloaf Country Club and the women were discussing how the US had killed the president of Pakistan (ObL). Ah, cut them some slack Terry! ;-) Musharraf, when he was still prez, probably had ObL over for dinner plenty of times during Ramadan. Shoot! They probably wuz neighbors! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13262131 http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/pervez_musharraf/index.html Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
Good work-in-progress compilation Jones. Thanks for volunteering. It's astonishing to me to see the number of different theories being explored. Some obviously have at present garnered more respect than others. But who really knows at present what combination of the above (or perhaps none at all) will be the final winner. It could take decades... as you say a work-in-progress. The lords of Science have their work cut out. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:FAKE or REAL -- April test -- NO Chemical Fakes eliminated
Alan sez: Is it too much to ask for ONE TEST in which EVERYTHING is done correctly: Yes, Get over it. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:FAKE or REAL -- April test -- NO Chemical Fakes eliminated
Alan sez: Is it too much to ask for ONE TEST in which EVERYTHING is done correctly: Yes, snark=ON Sorry, I thought vortex was a scientific list, not a religious one. snark=OFF Hi Alan, Jed has already posted a few suggestions on the matter of getting what you think you deserve in life. You seem to have come to a conclusion that my previous pithy response, (which I freely admit was intentionally crafted at your expense), is religious in nature. How you arrived at such conclusion mystifies me, but no matter. FWIW, I occasionally develop software. It's been my experience that 1 percent of software development involves highly inspirational POC (Proof of concept) work. Invariably, inspirational POC work tends to be followed by 99 percent of not so inspirational tedious labor that focuses on how to make one's POC application (one's pride-and-joy) idiot proof. Never EVER underestimate the capacity of software users to find ways to wreak havoc with one's pride-and-joy, especially as they go about testing and analyzing its merits. I have a suspicion mechanical engineering inventors must endure similar trials and tribulations, including Rossi Co. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:RaiNews24 (ITA)
From MoB: But, did I hear David from Defkalion say it right, that they are aiming at producing 300.000 units per year? Oeps, that should read 300,000 (three hundred thousand) Not by certain European standards. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The Modus Operandi List for Radiation Free Energy Gain
From Jones: ... ... hey ... come to think of it ... you don't think that the deuterium tank seen at one time in Rossi's setup was indicating that he could be harvesting the ash g ? nah... The excuse given at the time was to quench the reaction, but think about it, do you quench fire with gold? Check the relative price the new gold rush? Come to think of it, if the casual observer was wondering why BLP has not countered Rossi with its own demo, yet seems to be flush with new money, then one need only imagine the price he can get from DoD/NASA for harvested Hy for use as either weapons or propellant. Jones, you suffer from the same affliction that I suspect I'm cursed with: I think you tend to over-speculate! IOW, you think too much. ;-) I hope you don't take any real offense from this personal observation of mine. I'm only trying to suggest: It takes one to know one. Please note that being cursed with such an affliction hasn't stopped me from reading your unique take on recent events. I suspect your unique perceptions tend to augment my own fermentation processes. You certainly have a better grasp of the physics than I. Guinness anyone? PS: Keep updating the list! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments
From Terry, ... I think Rossi has one extra trick up his sleeve. I could never figure out the electrical wiring for the heaters and why he needed the band heater in addition to the auxiliary heater in the end pipe. It now occurs to me that he is flowing current between these two heaters causing a huge surplus of electrons within the Ni powder. I think these excess electrons are the catalyzer which causes the amplification of the heat energy. By what exact method, I am unsure; but, it would explain how he controls the reaction. It is literally modulated by the electron flow sort of like a thermonic valve. This is an interesting perspective on the matter. It also sort of makes me think of aspects pertaining to the WL theory and the alleged packing of electrons within the lattice. However, I don't really know if that's an appropriate association to make here or not. Of more concern to me: Wouldn't your speculation possibly result in a very dangerous electrical problem for any human who attempted to handle the e-cats? I'm thinking the electrical flow would would not be insulated. Or have I misunderstood something crucial here. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Focardi achieved considerable success in previous experiments
From Terry, Of more concern to me: Wouldn't your speculation possibly result in a very dangerous electrical problem for any human who attempted to handle the e-cats? I'm thinking the electrical flow would would not be insulated. Or have I misunderstood something crucial here. Well, did you see the wrappings on the reporter's video? Looked more like electrical insulation than gamma or thermal. Well... now that you mention it. You're right. Perhaps Rossi's insulation pulls double duty. Perhaps at one time, years ago, Rossi was experimenting with an earlier version of the e-Cat where he unintentionally hot-wired one of the devices. While receiving an unpleasant shock, he may have simultaneously noticed that the offending device was heating up far more than expected. A shocking revelation! (This, BTW, is exactly what I mean about overactive imaginations occasionally running rampant and coming up with all sorts of speculative scenarios. I think Jones might suffer from the same speculative gift.) Speculations or not, I think your thoughts on this matter should be added to Jone's list. Don't worry if it's still fuzzy. Most everything on Jones' list is fuzzy. You'll be in good company! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cheap ball mill / glove box alternative to Bell jar?
Makes me wunder if applying heat is really all that necessary. ...Or perhaps raw external heat is only necessary at first, as Rossi seems to indicate. The speculated implication is that it's actually the amount of electron packing going on that is a crucial element in sustaining the reaction. Perhaps once the chain reaction is initiated the external heating element essentially becomes irrelevant. (This would make sense to me. I never understood WHY Rossi always claimed it's necessary to keep the external heating element always on - for allegedly safety reasons. That never made any sense to me. Makes me think the heating element is actually there for another reason.) Once the reaction is initiated, perhaps it then becomes a matter of controlling the amount of electron packing going on which, in turn, manipulates the strength of the reaction. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Can Rossi generate steam hotter than 110 °C ?
Let me add my two cents: If Rossi's e-Cat reactor core can regularly sustain temperatures of 500c or higher, water that is in contact with the reactor core's surface FOR LONG ENOUGH PERIODS will most certainly exceed temperatures 100.1 C, and by quite a large margin. However, the tick would be to keep the water that has just been transformed into steam contained long enough AT the e-cat reactor core's surface so that it has the chance to absorb the additional heat. Currently this doesn't happen. It's my understanding that the current Rossi prototypes (perhaps for demonstration purposes) do not appear to be built in such a way as to physically contain the transformed steam. It's not designed to behave like a pressure cooker! The water immediately after it has been transformed into steam quickly expands. The steam quickly shoots out the exhaust pipe - i.e. the infamous black hose. IOW, the steam doesn't have a chance to hang around long enough to absorb additional heat and subsequently increase in temperature much above 100.1 C. Some on this list may still recall several months ago the fact that there was a protracted argument precisely based on this specific steam temperature issue. Some argued: WHY was the steam only measured to be 100.1 C when it exited out of the black hose, especially if the e-Cat reactor was claimed to be hundreds of degrees higher. Because the exiting steam temperature seemed to be rigidly fixed at 100.1 C some on this list became absolutely convinced Rossi was involved in a scam operation. However further experiments have proven that such concerns appear to be groundless, particularly (and ironically) when experimenters increased the water flow to show a simple 5 degree temperature increase. (More accurate calometric measurements resulted.) Hopefully, we won't have to revisit that protracted argument again. IOW, I doubt Rossi's e-cats, if engineered properly, would have a problem raising steam to significantly higher temperatures than 100.1 C. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Taxing vehicles for road maintenance in the cold fusion era
From Jed: 3. Use many more toll roads, with electronic toll collection rather than toll gates, so that traffic does not have to slow down or stop. This has been proposed in Georgia to replace some of the High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes. They already have set up a lot of fast lane toll gates in Illinois. You purchase a box and affix it to the inside of your windshield. You go to a web site and monitor your funds account. It's pretty painless. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Can Rossi generate steam hotter than 110 °C ?
From Joshua: In other words, you've got nothin' but vague, unsupported insults. In my view, it doesn't matter if my vague unsupported insults (which I freely admit were done at your expense) are correct or not. You seem to believe that you have Rossi's occasionally troubling heat measurements pretty much figured out. Well... certainly more than me. Be that as it may, in the greater scheme of things it doesn't matter if your detailed heat analysis seems less vague than my unsupported insults. We will all know soon enuf whether Rossi's controversial e-cats deliver the bacon, or not. Again, have fun storming the castle. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The waste heat problem
From Axil: ... Pumping the waste heat underground may be a solution, but would add substantially to the cost of a Cat-E installation. Speculating a bit more on this topic... It seems to me that waste heat could eventually turn into a global environmental problem. Assuming e-Cat technology doesn't improve over the years, which I suspect would NOT be the case, the planet could end up with billions of e-cats radiating unusable heat into the environment. It could turn out to be worse the CO2 or methane. ACC actually speculated on this matter (in an incidental manner) in his less spectacular novel 3001 A Space Odyssey. ACC's solution was to construct several huge space elevators in geo-synchronic orbit around the equator that doubled as massive heat sinks. As fluffy as that novel was I loved reading it. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Can Rossi generate steam hotter than 110 °C ?
From Joshua: ... Eventually, in a few years Rossi will simply fade away like Patterson from the 90s, and the CF community will make excuses like his stock of lucky catalyst ran out and he found he was unable to make more, and you will refuse to admit you were wrong. Thank you for sharing your speculations on the continuing Rossi saga... and my predicted future behavior patterns. You imply that I have an invested interest in Rossi's e-Cats being the real deal. Well, it's certainly true that I HOPE they are the real deal. However, that's not the same thing as being emotionally invested in such a manner that Rossi's e-Cats HAS to be the real deal. If they turn out to be fakes, or nothing comes of such technology within the next couple of years or so, I will indeed be disappointed, but I'll survive. Based on your prior posting behavior you give me no reason to suspect you comprehend such distinctions. In fact, your posts seem to show very little comprehension of both human behavior and perception. As such, I doubt you have given much thought about your own emotional investments. I have been wrong many times in my life. I expect to be wrong again. Will I be wrong about Rossi's e-cats? It's certainly possible. In the meantime I do what I can to improve my understanding of what is speculated to be happening within Rossi's e-Cats. As you obviously ought to know by now, there are prevailing opinions on the matter. FWIW, it's been my experience that making predictions about the speculated behavior of others is not a terribly productive way of going about the task of getting your points across. Neither is it a good way to go about winning friends and influencing people. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The waste heat problem
Jed sez: ... ...In other words, we may need a few hundred thousand reverse oil wells. All the energy we got out of burning oil and coal we may need to put into undoing the results and burying the fuel. Heh! ... which x'plains how the current supply of underground fossil fuels came into existence. Except our ET friends, the reptoids, aren't taking. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
