[WISPA] Surplus Tower/Liebert AC units For Sale

[Bob Moldashel]

Guys and Gals,

I have been asked to remove a 100' freestanding tower this week. I don't 
have any room in my yard or in the warehouse to store it so my other 
option is to cut it up and scrap it. If someone is interested in it I 
will strip it down and package it for shipping. It would make a great 
WISP AP tower for someone. You just need foundation bolts which you can 
get from any tower manufacturer. The price I am asking will cover my 
crane and personnel costs to disassemble and package for shipping. Once 
again, if it gets sold here I will make a $200 donation to WISPA.

Tower info and pictures are here:  www.bb-recon.com/tower4sale

I also still have the two Lieberts. One 20 ton and one 10 ton System 3 
glycol units with roof condensers. Buy one of these and I will donate 
$250 for each unit to WISPA.

Just let me know you saw it here on the list as this stuff is listed 
elsewhere and I don't want the organization to loose out.

Thanks

Bob



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Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link

[Bob Moldashel]

The biggest thing I look for is who has my back when there is an outage.

(Unfortunately at this point I have zero experience with Trango licensed 
equipment so I can't comment there.)

I have dealt with Ceragon, Harris/Stratex, Dragonwave and others. All 
make good product. While pricing may make a decision in most peoples 
minds it doesn't in mine. When running high priority links I look for a 
manufacturer with a track record for support, not sales or price. I have 
consistently seen miracles performed by Dragonwave when we have had the 
occasional  bad radio.  I had a service issue at 6:30 PM eastern time 
here one night and I had an advanced replacement radio in my hands 
before 9am the following morning. And they're in freakin' CANADA!  I 
don't know how but it happened, Customs and all.

Considering 90% of my business is installation and service, I need a 
provider that supports me.

I also agree on the need for a 24 Ghz. unit. I would love to have a 100 
Mb FDX system that only did a mile or so. Sub $10K. All integrated.

-B-




Charles Wu wrote:
> My personal opinion regarding point-to-point links is that it boils down 
> solely to price & technical specifications
>
> When talking about Point-to-Point links (as opposed to a Point-to-Multipoint 
> system) -- company sustainability / support (be it Dragonwave vs. Trango) 
> isn't really that crucial, given that (1) most WISPs should know how to setup 
> and configure their own radios and (2) most point-to-point links sit as a 
> "self-contained" system
>
> To illustrate
>
> 1. How much support is really "needed" on a point-to-point link -- if by now, 
> you can't figure out how to install one of these links with at the most some 
> basic phone support, then you may need to rethink whether or not you should 
> be in the WISP business =)
>
> That said...after an initial learning curve, and assuming that radios are 
> properly installed (e.g., grounded, etc) -- point-to-points are generally 
> "forgotten about" in the network
>
> So, say you buy a point-to-point Trango or Dragonwave backhaul -- you install 
> it...works fine -- 36 months later Trango or Dragonwave goes completely 
> bankrupt
>
> Who cares? For your next link...go buy a 
> Trango/Dragonwave/Ceragon/Harris/Nera/whatever -- the installed link will 
> continue to work -- and by then, you'll be looking to upgrade your backhauls 
> anyways
>
> -Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:38 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
>
> >From what I gather in this post my synopsis is as follows.
>
> Both Dragonwave and Trango are fine ptp products with small
> differences.  Both companies have problems either financially or
> historically.
>
> I think the geeks in us care about the products and the operation
> managers in us care about the business.  As was said there is no wrong
> choice.
>
> Is this a correct statement or am I wrong and where?
>
> On 2/12/09, Charles Wu  wrote:
>   
 Dragonwave did not ship $50mil last year, it
 was closer to $40Mil - and by the way they are losing tons of money
 quarter-after-quarter.  Trango is, and has always been profitable.
 
>>> Well you can read Dragonwave's latest financial statement here...
>>> http://www.dragonwaveinc.com/docs/corporate/DragonWave_Financial%20Statement
>>> s_Nov30%202008.pdf  So it does say gross sales was at 30 million CDN for
>>> three quarters... Dragonwave operates on a weird year end.  Anyways I used
>>> the 50 mil from what I was told off the cuff by a Dragonwave rep... anyways
>>> its probably fair to say it is somewhere between 40 and 50 mil...
>>>   
>> Sales mean nothing -- the true test of a company's health and viability is
>> profitability (net income) and cash flow
>>
>> The numbers you referenced show that Dragonwave loss $3.8 million and burned
>> $8.7 million in cash in the last 9 months ended November 2008
>>
>> It shows them having $10 million in cash, $10 million in AR and $14 million
>> in short term investments
>>
>> Reading Dragonwave's financials, while it's not a disaster, paints the
>> picture of a start-up company that's trying to "get over the hump"
>>
>> So...assuming a soft economy...where performance is similar to where they
>> are now, and from a simplistic perspective, assuming they can collect all
>> their AR & liquidate all their investments at market value, Dragonwave has
>> ~3 years before they have to turn profitable, sell or raise more money
>>
>> -Charles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to
>> which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
>> confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader
>> of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent
>> responsible for delivery of the mes

Re: [WISPA] BS....was Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?

[Bob Moldashel]

Tom,

I will get you off list regarding the Manhattan work.

As far as the 300 Mb link you got it should be a Horizon radio not an 
Airpair. I don't have the slightest idea how you ever got that price 
from someone but it was an exceptional deal. MSRP for a 200 Mb standard 
(not high power) with 2' antennas and install kits is $19,500. Consider 
another $1k for for the additional 100 mb of bandwidth and $1k for high 
power and you are looking at a $21,500 MSRP. Given your purchase price 
that equals a 50% or so discount on the product. This is not the 
Dragonwave normal discount.

Bob




Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I have a customer in NY, (near United Nations area.), I'm trying to close 
> deal on.
> Originally I was jsut planning on buying a 100mbCogent link from a near 
> buildings, and Tlink45ing to it, Since prospect needs 30mbps.
>
> I saw you mentioned "Manhatten". Do you accept T&M wireless field service 
> work? If so, what are your rates?
> I might as well ask... Do you wholesale Transit?
>
> PS. The last 300mbps Airpair 23Ghz w/2ft dishes, that I bought (this month), 
> I paid $10,800 (with Hi-power) NEW.
> My Trango Apex w/ dish (same spec), I paid $8600 new (this month).  $10,000 
> really isn't a steal anymore for used gear, if its a savy buyer.
> You were asking a "fair" price, but it was not a "steal".
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Bob Moldashel" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 6:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] BSwas Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>
>
>   
>> Hey Adam,
>>
>> I am curious as to why you are saying the used Dragonwave deal didn't
>> pan out???
>>
>> I still have the system here and Mario can have it any time he wants.
>> 200 Mb full duplex with his choice of used 4' or new 2' antennas. I even
>> offered to deliver it to your office over 100 miles away from me at no
>> charge.
>>
>> According to Mario the "deal breaker" was I was not going to let him
>> take the link, install it, and "try it" for a week or two and then let
>> him make his decision. He says he was worried about "interference".
>> Well  I have more than forty 23 Ghz. links in midtown Manhattan without
>> issue so I doubt you guys are going to have any problems getting a clean
>> channel in rural Kingston NY.
>>
>> $10K for a Dragonwave Airpair that is a little over a year old with a
>> choice of either 4' or 2' antennas is a steal.  This link sells for $20K+.
>>
>> The real issue was not interference. It was money. It's really a shame
>> Mario couldn't tell me that instead of using interference as an excuse.
>>
>> If anyone else wants this link I will let it go to them for $9K until
>> February 10th. Get me offlist
>>
>> lakel...@gbcx.net
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> Adam Greene wrote:
>> 
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> Following up on this thread ...
>>>
>>> First off, thanks to those who've offered advice off-list. It's been very
>>> helpful.
>>>
>>> Looks like we're seriously considering Trango Apex 18GHz ... our used
>>> Dragonwave lead didn't pan out.
>>>
>>> A couple other options have come up, too: E-Band's E-Link 1000 (~75GHz
>>> licensed, at a promotional price) or Cablefree G1500 (a 780nm FSO 
>>> product).
>>>
>>> Anyone have any experience / feedback regarding either of these two 
>>> products
>>> (or companies)?
>>>
>>> Again, we're trying to create a 1.2 km urban link in an ITU-R rain region 
>>> K
>>> zone, really only need 100Mbps, need ~5 9's of reliability, and sub-$13k
>>> (price is an object).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>> You can go Dragonwave 24 Ghz Unlicensed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>&g

Re: [WISPA] BS....was Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?

[Bob Moldashel]

7;re close to
>>>>>> deploying
>>>>>> another BridgeWave link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>>>>>> 
>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> 
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 4:34 PM
>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The last quotes I have done have put Bridgewave much cheaper than
>>>>>> Dragonwave
>>>>>> for 1.2Gpbs... although Dragonwave by far has a range benefit to
>>>>>> 
>> it.
>> 
>>>>>> Daniel White
>>>>>> 3-dB Networks
>>>>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>>>>>>>   
>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> 
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 2:51 PM
>>>>>>> To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you are right. (To give Ceragon credit where credit is
>>>>>>>   
>> due).
>> 
>>>>>>> Although, I'm positive Dragonwave was the first to do it with
>>>>>>>   
>> 366mbps
>> 
>>>>>>> per
>>>>>>> radio ODU with Ethernet.
>>>>>>> Ceragon was stuck at 200-250mbps per ODU for a while there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its important to note that breaking the 350mbps barrier, and radio
>>>>>>> combining
>>>>>>> (for double) was a core accomplishment, that put the value
>>>>>>>   
>> proposition
>> 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> 6-23Ghz above that of inexistence 80Ghz technology with multiple
>>>>>>>   
>> hops,
>> 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> deliver near equivellent capacity, at lower cost.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom DeReggi
>>>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>>>> From: 
>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 3:53 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>> I believe (but not sure) Ceragon was the first with a DPRM mount.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But agree with everything else
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>> From: "Tom DeReggi" 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:32:12
>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good advice Bob, but I'll add There is a purpose for each
>>>>>>>> 
>> model,
>> 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> that matter also a specific manufacturer, and all ODU is not
>>>>>>>>

Re: [WISPA] Trango Question - OFFLIST

[Bob Moldashel]

I really hate when this happens.

:-)



Charles Wu (CTI) wrote:
> Hi Matt,
>
> Missed you at AF this year -- saw your tree presentation though
>
> In lieu of violating list protocol, I would recommend that you ask Adam -- he 
> should know all about it
>
> -Charles
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Matt Jenkins
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 4:36 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango Question
>
> Please do enlighten us of this latest special.
>
> - Matt
>
> Charles Wu (CTI) wrote:
>   
>>> I just received an email from a vendor that sells competing products to
>>> Trango.  The email said: "I don't know if you are aware of this but Trango
>>> just recently let their complete engineering staff go so you may want to
>>> consider another product."
>>>   
>> We just visited with Trango and I can personally attest to the fact that 
>> their engineering and manufacturing capabilities are up and operational
>> They have "ceased future development" on certain products that don't make 
>> financial sense, but one could argue that that's just trying to get "more 
>> bang for your buck" in this economy and a far cry from "laying off your 
>> engineering staff"
>>
>> 
>>> Can anyone confirm/refute this?  I have been seriously looking at their
>>> licensed links.
>>>   
>> Have you heard about the latest Trango licensed link special?  This one 
>> blows the last one from the summer/fall away =)
>>
>> -Charles
>>
>>
>> This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to 
>> which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, 
>> confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader 
>> of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent 
>> responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are 
>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this 
>> communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this 
>> communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone at 
>> 630-344-1586.
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
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>
>
> 
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> confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader 
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> responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are 
> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this 
> communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication 
> in error, please notify us immediately by telephone at 630-344-1586.
>
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>   




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Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?

[Bob Moldashel]

Wella couple of notes...

I personally would use an all ODU version because it makes servicing a 
breeze and also swapping out a bad radio quick and simple. No guessing 
about is it the indoor unit, is it the outdoor unit, is it the interface 
cable???  Get an all ODU like the Dragonwave Horizon and you run CAT5 
and you're done. If you get a cable issue you either can't log in or see 
no handshake with your switch/router or..If one of the POE lines are bad 
your radio will continue to reboot. Troubleshoot the radio on the ground 
with a patch cable and you rule out your cabling system.

Like was mentioned elsewhere here if you are concerned with theft you 
can lock the radios in place. This can be done by putting a security 
screw in place of the grounding screw and use a cable assembly to lock 
it up. If the theft concern is that high you should probably consider 
another location.

With weather being a concern you could always install a second parallel 
link on the same antenna using a DPRM mount. Then if one link fails the 
other could be engaged to carry the traffic.

I do not see this link really working (high 9's reliability) without 4' 
antennas. That of course leads to new mounting issues.  At 6 Ghz. you 
are looking at 6' minimum dishes.  Figure 600-800 lbs per antenna with 
mount not to say the least about cost, shipping and installation.

I personally like Dragonwave for 2 reasons.  1 - The service facility is 
in this part of the hemisphere which allows me to get equipment 
overnight in emergencies.  2 - One year advanced replacement is only 
$500/year per radio.  Allows me to sleep easily.

This does not mean I do not like Ceragon. They are just doing some 
growing pains things at the moment and most of the stuff is serviced 
overseas unless it is an interface or something simple.

Dragonwave support is very responsive though you do have to leave your 
name with a service and they call you back.  I have installed more than 
45 Dragonwave links in the past 2 years and have only had 2 failures.

There are other options but history, price or delivery will kill them as 
an option.

And stay away from equipment that does switching for you. Do all your 
control external to the radio.

Bob




Paolo Di Francesco wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> we are considering to move to licensed frequencies for back hauling and
> therefore some hints would be really appreciated. We are looking at 2
> main manufacturers (Ceragon/Dragonwave) so the problem is "which one
> fits better for our needs"?
>
> Just to summarize:
>
> a) links are around 20-25 miles
> b) antennas: the smaller the better
> c) robustness is very important
> d) average life: 3 years
>
> >From what I have read in the data sheets I have done the following
> considerations:
>
> 1) Dragonwave Horizon is nice but only if your site is well protected
> from "sabotage and stealing". The "all outdoor" approach is nice but it
> has the drawback that if somebody takes the whole unit they will have a
> brand new unit working. With the IDU/ODU approach they will have only
> half of the "banknote", so after the first or second time, they will not
> spend time having something useless.
> 2) Dragonwave Horizon can be a problem if you don't use fiber from the
> unit down to your switch. In few words, we have sites with huge amount
> or EM fields, so even using shielded cables (e.g. Belden 1300A) we get
> only few ethernet megabits. So we should use fiber to go up the tower,
> but maybe be IDU/ODU approach is more robust (comments welcome).
> 3) All outdoor means that when you have to re-use the devices somewhere
> else, you have to buy a whole new thing instead of just swapping the ODU.
> 4) In any case the (all outdoor or IDU/ODU) when the tower is frozen
> (and when I mean frozen I mean a whole block of ice) then it does not
> change much, you have to wait the better season to work on that.
> 5) Performances look more or less the same.
> 6) I don't know much about prices, I have looked on some website, I am
> still exploring this aspect
> 7) Is anybody using the software-switch capabilities on this devices or
> just using them as transparent bridges for your router/switch? Do you
> need to reset them often?
>
> Comments are welcome.
>
> Am I missing some other good brand?
>
> Thank you.
>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?

[Bob Moldashel]

I don't think Trango will be a good fit considering the 20-25 mile link 
distances, 18 Ghz. and the reduced tx power compared to others in the 
lower bands.




Travis Johnson wrote:
> Take a look at the Trango GigaLink and APEX radios. They make both an 
> IDU/ODU and just an ODU option.
>
> We just installed the APEX 18ghz systems. At one location we used the 
> "fiber" option and it works great. You can contact them directly 
> (www.trangobroadband.com) or contact Charles @ CTI. They are selling the 
> 18ghz version with 2ft dishes for $9,995 right now (complete link).
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Paolo Di Francesco wrote:
>   
>> Dear All,
>>
>> we are considering to move to licensed frequencies for back hauling and
>> therefore some hints would be really appreciated. We are looking at 2
>> main manufacturers (Ceragon/Dragonwave) so the problem is "which one
>> fits better for our needs"?
>>
>> Just to summarize:
>>
>> a) links are around 20-25 miles
>> b) antennas: the smaller the better
>> c) robustness is very important
>> d) average life: 3 years
>>
>> >From what I have read in the data sheets I have done the following
>> considerations:
>>
>> 1) Dragonwave Horizon is nice but only if your site is well protected
>> from "sabotage and stealing". The "all outdoor" approach is nice but it
>> has the drawback that if somebody takes the whole unit they will have a
>> brand new unit working. With the IDU/ODU approach they will have only
>> half of the "banknote", so after the first or second time, they will not
>> spend time having something useless.
>> 2) Dragonwave Horizon can be a problem if you don't use fiber from the
>> unit down to your switch. In few words, we have sites with huge amount
>> or EM fields, so even using shielded cables (e.g. Belden 1300A) we get
>> only few ethernet megabits. So we should use fiber to go up the tower,
>> but maybe be IDU/ODU approach is more robust (comments welcome).
>> 3) All outdoor means that when you have to re-use the devices somewhere
>> else, you have to buy a whole new thing instead of just swapping the ODU.
>> 4) In any case the (all outdoor or IDU/ODU) when the tower is frozen
>> (and when I mean frozen I mean a whole block of ice) then it does not
>> change much, you have to wait the better season to work on that.
>> 5) Performances look more or less the same.
>> 6) I don't know much about prices, I have looked on some website, I am
>> still exploring this aspect
>> 7) Is anybody using the software-switch capabilities on this devices or
>> just using them as transparent bridges for your router/switch? Do you
>> need to reset them often?
>>
>> Comments are welcome.
>>
>> Am I missing some other good brand?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>   
>> 
>
>
> 
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>   




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Re: [WISPA] rental test gear

[Bob Moldashel]

What a squeaker.  You "rented" it??

 With all your money you could have bought one for everyone on the list!

:-P

-B-






Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Just wanted to drop a line about a great new vendor I've run into. 
> www.trs-rentelco.com is a great company.
>
> I have rented a fancy Fluke meter for testing some cat5 issues I've been 
> chasing.  When I got the unit and couldn't quickly figure it out I called 
> John for help.  Right off the bat he had me talk to his tech support folks 
> who took the time to help me program the unit correctly for the tests I was 
> running.
>
> When the test results just didn't make sense they referred me to Fluke for 
> more advanced help.  No run around, no instructions to RTFM, just good old 
> fashioned help in getting my network running right.  As quickly as possible.
>
> What a relief it is to know that companies like that are still around.
>
> They have high end cable testers (the Fluke I'm using is a $7,000 unit!), 
> spectrum analyzers etc.
>
> I highly recommend that you give these guys a chance the next time you need 
> some testing gear, you need it in a hurry, and you don't need it often 
> enough to buy it.
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] Think Personal Disaster Recovery..... (was... PING)

[Bob Moldashel]

I think it is important to note something here.

For all you guys out there that are running their business, or any 
business for that matter, an event like this could easily shut down your 
business.

Think about the situation at hand. You own a business and a good part of 
it revolves around you. You have all those little important things in 
your head like passwords, names of contacts for tower sites, phone 
numbers in a little book someplace, some notes that have the combination 
to the fence to get into the property that has your AP on the roof after 
hours, the sketch for the new customers you just put on line is on a 
napkin in the center console of your truck, or even something as simple 
as the alarm code and password for the office.  Something happens to you 
and what happens to your business?  How about your family that depends 
on you and the business to stay liquid? An event could easily push many 
of us into bankruptcy.

In most instances I am sure that someone weather it be from WISPA or 
otherwise could get to your family to help with the business but could 
they actually do what is needed without the information we take for 
granted every day?

Now is a good time to write it down. You don't need to tell everyone 
what the information is you just need to let your spouse or member of 
your family know where to find it.

What do you write down?  Well pretend that you are going away on 
vacation and a stranger is coming in to run your business. Start with a 
daily routine. Unlock the front door. The keys are on my keychain for my 
truck. The alarm panel is behind the door. The code is 1 2 3 4 OFF in 
that order.  If the alarm should go off just enter the code again. The 
alarm company should call. The codename is  "WISPA".  If you have 
problems with the alarm call Mike at Alarm Co. Inc.  800-888- is the 
number. Turn off the answering machine. Play messages back from the 
machine and return calls. Employees come in at 9 am. Their personal 
files are in my desk. The keys to my office are on my truck keyring. All 
the payroll and billing information for the company is in Quickbooks on 
my laptop. The password is "happywisp". The employees names are 
...  Their contact numbers are   etc, etc

Make sure to mark down who you feel you can trust to be honest and 
helpful within your company in a time of crisis and who may use this 
time as a leverage point.

If you have any special arrangements with employees write them down. 
Same goes for contact names and numbers of vendors and customers. If 
there is someone you feel comfortable running your business then make a 
note of that person with contact info.

During a crisis one of the biggest issues is billing, banking and 
payroll. If it looks like the event will be short term it may be wise to 
have your accountant do the payroll for your company if someone else 
doesn't do it. This will ensure privacy and keep the "boat" steady 
during the rough seas. This is not the time to have a "He makes how 
much???" between employees. Billing procedures are extremely important 
especially when to bill, how to bill, how much to bill as well as 
collection procedures. Deposits can usually be done by a family member. 
Consider having the office mail held at the post office and picked up 
there. Don't need anything getting "lost" during this period. Make sure 
it is read promptly every day in case any urgent issues should occur.

I could go on and on but I am sure you get the idea. This info could 
easily go into a spiral bound notebook and updated every now and then. 
Maybe consider making a copy of any important keys or computer files 
(book keeping, config files, spreadsheets, Visio's, network maps, etc). 
All this material should be kept at your home in a "just in case" file 
or box.

We never expect to have anything happen to us. I have been to several 
WISPCON's and other events and we are not all walking health freaks by 
nature. Think of your family and get this done.  Don't sit in front of 
the TV tomorrow night eating potato chips and drinking beer watching the 
Simpsons. Do that Wednesday night. Get started on that emergency 
recovery book now. If you don't need it...great.  But if you do someone 
will be very grateful.

Be safe and healthy. And all my best goes out to Mac and his family.

Bob




John Scrivner wrote:
> Mac is stable. He still has tests to be done. I talked to his wife, Sharon,
> a little while ago. Keep Mac and his family in your prayers please. Sharon
> says their network is running fine. I told her to let me know if they need
> help and we would work to get someone there to help if they need anything. I
> am sure we can pull together and help Mac if he needs it.
> Scriv
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:13 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote:
>
>   
>> PINGING, I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANYTHING FROM THE LIST SINCE MY POST AT
>> 9:46AM.
>>
>> ANY WORD ON MAC?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --

Re: [WISPA] Tower accident

[Bob Moldashel]

In the eye of the government the fall arrest cable system "must meet the 
design requirement of the ladder it serves".  S...  You can't really 
just throw up a cable system on a ladder and use it. It needs to be 
"designed" so it will meet all the fall requirements, anchor standards, 
etc, etc.

The real issue you have here is "What If.." someone else uses the system 
"you" installed and they get injured or die. Liability will fall 100% 
back on whoever installed, designed and made the equipment.  Companies 
like DBI/Sala, Klein, Elk River, etc have warnings on their web sites 
and inside every ladder cable system they ship. So the first thing they 
will do is throw you to the wolves (aka lawyers) by saying it was not 
the correct application and the system was not designed for the function 
it was performing and installed for. Now if you get an engineer to sign 
off on it and tell you what will work and how to install it, you will 
greatly differ your liability. If you have grain towers in your back 
yard you may find a structural engineer to design a blanket system for 
you and draw it up and stamp it for very little money. Here in NY they 
get "phone numbers" (big money) for every individual site.

You may be hard pressed to find rated anchorage points on a silo to 
begin with. Not saying it is impossible but most of the ones I have seen 
are aluminum foil thin and welded out of basic angle iron. The standard 
anchorage point requires a 5,000 lb rating in the event of a fall. This 
could be modified by using a fall lanyard that is only 2.5-3 feet upon 
falling which would greatly reduce the fall shock limits. A ladder cable 
system may not require a 5,000 lb anchor system. It may only require a 
1500 lb anchor system. The problem is no one (that I have seen anyhow) 
has stated what is required for a ladder system. A ladder cable system 
does not allow you to fall "up to 6 feet" as some lanyard do. With a 
proper chest D ring harness and rated cable grab the most you should 
fall is 2'.

If you will be climbing the same site multiple times say over a week or 
two you could temporarily install a 5/8" or 3/4" rope grab system with 
the correct rope. This would be an acceptable alternative but cannot be 
left in place for an extended period of time (months/years).

One more thing to point out to everyone. There are 3/8" cable and 5/16" 
cable grabs for ladder cable systems. Make sure you are using the grab 
that is rated for the system that is installed. Use a 3/8" grab on 5/16" 
cable will grab with some models and will slip with others.  Same with 
rope grabs.  They come 1/2", 9/16, 5/8" and 3/4".  Use the wrong rope 
grab on the wrong rope and you will be in for a ride.

Good luck and be careful.

-B-






Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> I have seriously thought about putting a cable going up the center of 
> the ladders on all the elevator legs we're on.  There is already one on 
> the leg that has no cage.  Then we could clip on a go, with either a 
> belt or a light harness (unlike my big sit down elk river harness that 
> is a little heavy).  Anyone run these cable before?  What is needed?
>
> Brian
>
> Chuck Hogg wrote:
>   
>> I believe a cage is an acceptable OSHA fall restraint.  This was
>> reviewed during my recent ComTrain class in Orlando.  The only issue is
>> if you get on the platform, you have no fall arrest and thus you are
>> supposed to wear a harness.  
>>
>>  
>>
>> I myself don't do 100% tie off going up a cage, but I do when I get to
>> the top.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:05 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower accident
>>
>>  
>>
>> What do you guys do on elevator/grain legs that have cages around them.
>> Usually it's like a 100ft ladder.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> Chuck McCown wrote: 
>>
>> I used to free climb towers.  Some of them had so much crap on them it
>> was 
>> the only way to do it (unless you had two belts... perish the thought).
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "3-dB Networks"   
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>>  
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:58 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower accident
>>  
>>  
>>   
>>
>>  And 15 years ago most people climbed towers freestyle... all
>> this safety
>>  gear is still relatively new isn't it
>>   
>>  Daniel White
>>  3-dB Networks
>>  http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>   
>>   
>>  -Original Message-
>>  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>  Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>>  Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:50 AM
>>  To: WISPA General List
>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower accident
>>   
>>  Back in the day, we climbed wooden poles with nothing other than
>> our hooks
>>  and hands.  Once you got up

Re: [WISPA] Tower accident

[Bob Moldashel]

That's correct.  Not required if there is a cage around the ladder. I 
would still use one though





3-dB Networks wrote:
> I'll confirm that... the cage is supposed to prevent you from actually
> falling... so it is consider fall restraint and no other protection is
> technically needed (although I have used a harness and lanyards on them
> before because I didn't trust the cage and I had to have it on at the top).
>
> Depending on if there is railing at the top you might not need a harness
> there either... but it wouldn't hurt.
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:14 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower accident
>
> I believe a cage is an acceptable OSHA fall restraint.  This was
> reviewed during my recent ComTrain class in Orlando.  The only issue is
> if you get on the platform, you have no fall arrest and thus you are
> supposed to wear a harness.  
>
>  
>
> I myself don't do 100% tie off going up a cage, but I do when I get to
> the top.
>
>  
>
> Chuck
>
>  
>
>  
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:05 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower accident
>
>  
>
> What do you guys do on elevator/grain legs that have cages around them.
> Usually it's like a 100ft ladder.
>
> Brian
>
> Chuck McCown wrote: 
>
> I used to free climb towers.  Some of them had so much crap on them it
> was 
> the only way to do it (unless you had two belts... perish the thought).
> - Original Message - 
> From: "3-dB Networks"   
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>  
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower accident
>  
>  
>   
>
>   And 15 years ago most people climbed towers freestyle... all
> this safety
>   gear is still relatively new isn't it
>
>   Daniel White
>   3-dB Networks
>   http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>
>   -Original Message-
>   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>   Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>   Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:50 AM
>   To: WISPA General List
>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower accident
>
>   Back in the day, we climbed wooden poles with nothing other than
> our hooks
>   and hands.  Once you got up, then you would throw the one single
> belt 
>   around
>
>   the pole.  Most of the time the drop was between 20 and 30 feet.
> Enough 
>   to
>   hurt you pretty bad but probably not kill you.  I "burned" one
> pole one
>   time.  Torn shirt, splinters in my arms.  Funny how quick you
> can hug a 
>   pole
>
>   when you hook hits a knot in the pole.  (The reason it happened
> was I was
>   talking to and showing off for a former girlfriend).  In any
> event, it was
>   the preferred way of climbing.  Much quicker and easier, and
> actually, if
>   the pole was nice and soft, was very safe.
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: "George Rogato" 
>  
>   To: "WISPA General List" 
>  
>   Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:12 AM
>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower accident
>
>
>   
>
>   When you climb, do you only use one lanyard to tie off
> with?
>   Does this mean every time you unclip your lanyard to
> move it  that you
>   are then not tied off at all?
>
>
>   3-dB Networks wrote:
> 
>
>   Well I don't tie off in two places when I'm
> climbing... but when I am in
>   a
>   position I am going to be working at I tie off
> in two different places
>   just
>   in case... because you never know what might
> happen.
>
>   Daniel White
>   3-dB Networks
>   http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>   -Original Message-
>   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>   Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>   Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 8:52 AM
>   To: dmburg...@linktechs.net; WISPA General List
>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower accident
>
>   When climbing how many think "let's tie off in
> two places because this
>   first piece of angle iron is going to fall off"?
>
> 

Re: [WISPA] Do you provide backup services?

[Bob Moldashel]

Wow

Bitch and complain about WISPA's position and actions (your view) and 
complain about "sucking up" for federal funds but you are real quick to 
use this WISPA sponsored and paid for list for your own self benefit.

Talk about self-righteous bullshit!

Practice what you preach dude!

Go jump back in the pond.  Aren't frogs suppose to hibernate for the 
winter?  Give it a try.  Maybe things will be more to your liking in the 
spring. If not it will at least give us all a break from the soap opera 
going on here.

Close this freakin' thread already

Bob





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Do any of you provide backup data services to your broadband clients as a 
> value added or revenue improving service?
>
> Was it a success or failure?
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] Article

[Bob Moldashel]

Wow...OK   Who peed in the Muddy Water and hit the Frog?

Sheesh...

-B-




[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> And I won't be.   I was once and put money into WISPA.When I think WISPA 
> has the interests of all WISPS in mind when they act, then I'll financially 
> support it.   When WISPA goes to washington DC and represents to them, that 
> we actually WANT to be regulated, I cannot support them.   When WISPA 
> consistently fights FOR all of us, and not just the narrow interests of 
> those who want federal money or whatever, then I may again support WISPA 
> financially.
>
> When the attitude that "consolidation and shaking out the smaller players" 
> is a good thing goes away, then there's on more barrier down.  It may not be 
> official, but people who make decisions in WISPA have said that in the past. 
> Sorry, you lost me with that one.  Small business and "mom and pop" are the 
> backbone of our economy and make up a huge segment of all the jobs in the 
> whole country.
>
> Every other industry organization unabashedly opposes everything that costs 
> them or can harm them, but the leadership continues to insist that somehow 
> playing nice and agreeing to mandates and costs will buy us favor...   All 
> that happens is the mandates and agreements happen, the regulators change 
> and all the "goodwill" supposedly bought evaportes, with the precedents and 
> whatnot remain.  Until they understand that Washington DC is NEVER our 
> friend, never to be trusted, then we're just sheep waiting to get shorn.
>
> Until this fundamental approach changes, no way in good conscience can I put 
> my name on what they do or give them money.
>
>
> Sorry, that's just my opinion and it's not subject to "revision and 
> extension".
>
> This same attitude is going on still.   WISPA leadership is still talking 
> about trying to out maneuver the big boys so as to make grants and loans 
> available.   Cripes.  Yeah, like we're ever going to win the arm twisting 
> contest to bend it in our direction?   We don't collectively have that much 
> money or lobbyists tin DC to get our names to the top of the rolodexes.   We 
> cannot win that fight with those rules.
>
> We have got to start selling the value of a thriving and diverse industry 
> that exists solely due to lack of regulation and lack of governmental 
> interference and that the big players cannot play our game effectively and 
> that betting on the big guys is like buying Enron or Lehman stock.   We will 
> never be the providers to the masses, but there can never be affordable 
> ubiquitous broadband without us.
>
> That might take some thought and creativity to compose the narration and it 
> might take some skill to sell, but there's simply no rebuttal from Verizon 
> that FIOS is ever going to make a lick of sense in a wide array of places. 
> Or that in an era when Congress really, REALLY needs to get their fiscal act 
> in order, that blowing vast sums to reach few people makes sense.
>
> It has to be about selling the value of who and what you are and why you 
> are, not out muscling the big guys for a slice of pie.   That can't be won. 
> Further, it obliterations the differences between us and them.   That 
> DIFFERENCE is our strength, not our weakness.  If you're not thinking in 
> those terms, then some re-thinking needs to happen.
>
> What will attract membership is a consistent, clear message about how we 
> have and are building a thriving and healthy industry, even in these 
> economic times, due to the fact that WE ARE NOT THEM and then selling 
> exactly who we are.   The people coming back form DC need to talking about 
> how they sold us so well that when we say we need protection from mandates 
> and expensive intrusions, that they listened.   The idea of going to DC and 
> being a "we threw a toothpick in the cogs of the big guys and got some money 
> for us" is self defeating.
>
> We need to be proactive, not reactive, we need a coherent message and a 
> coherent brand.  We need to be defensive of the very thing that makes it 
> possible for our numbers to multiply - freedom to do business without 
> regulatory overhead.   We need to not be attempting to joust with the cable 
> operators and telcos over what they want.  We need to present something more 
> compelling than "feed our gaping maw so we c an continue our mediocre 
> performance" that the othe guys play.
>
> And no, don't tell me to "run for WISPA office".   Agitators like myself 
> don't win popularity contests.  Besides, I won't put my name on the 
> organization until it changes.   I prefer poking a stick in the hornets 
> nest, to letting stuff go along quietly.   I've never found that emulating 
> someone else is the sure-fire way to beat them.   That is not conducive to 
> winning anything.  Go for the whole banana, go for broke, or don't bother. 
> Lead, follow, or get out of the way...I spent the first half of my life 
> being compliant and found life has gotten 

Re: [WISPA] deliberant/ligowave

[Bob Moldashel]

Hey Marlon,

Is it safe to say that you have some issues with this unit???

:-P

Hope all is well

-B-





Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I just installed my first radio from these guys.  (Anyone know if it's the 
> same company)  I'm tossing out my very first thoughts as I'm still at 
> the customer's location, this is as raw as it'll get.
>
> First thing I noticed was a box that said Deliberant and a radio that said 
> LigoWave.  Probably the same company but it would be nice if the stickers 
> matched.
>
> Next, no polarity marking of any kind on it.  My guess of vertical being all 
> stickers and connectors down seems to be correct.
>
> Nothing tells you how to put the outdoor connector together.  I've done them 
> before so I knew which way to put that tapered gasket in, but my first time 
> I'm not sure I'd have gotten it right.
>
> No tech support phone number in the manual.  If it's there I couldn't find 
> it.
>
> The interface is slow.  Definitely God's gift to the hourly wage guy.
>
> I'm trying this unit at a location that runs VPN and VoIP out of a home 
> office.  Ever since I installed an MT AP her Tranzeo CPQ unit does the 
> disconnect thing and drops her calls and connections.  Speeds are good, 
> pings are good etc.  But stuff just don't work.  A Ubiquity at this location 
> worked just fine till it decided it wasn't going to listen to the AP anymore 
> (-90 or worse rssi when the replacement Tranzeo CPE unit had -65ish).
>
> This unit has a 40rssi.  Whatever THAT means.  I sure hate those random 
> signal level meters.  Give me the dB so that I can do a better job of 
> troubleshooting.
>
> Never did get this unit to pass data in bridge mode.  It would connect but I 
> couldn't get more than 1 ping at a time to go.  Web pages would start but 
> not load.  In router mode it works fine.
>
> Router mode has no port forwarding options.  Not an issue this time, but 
> without a working bridge mode I'll have to be careful where they get used.
>
> The hardware was easy to set up.  No instructions offered, but none needed 
> (other than the polarity sticker that needs to be there).
>
> Speeds are good.  Seeing 7 to 9 megs down and up.  Just like the original 
> Tranzeo CPQ radio gives.
>
> Now to see if it'll stay connected and give stable service to the customer.
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
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>
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>
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>
>
>   




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[WISPA] Tower Info FYI

[Bob Moldashel]

http://www.agl-mag.com/newsletter/Sept_16_Federal.htm



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Re: [WISPA] coax cables

[Bob Moldashel]

Dude

That is not what I was commenting on.  You made the following blanket
statement regarding radio links and waveguide:

>If you have any distance at all to go, and you want it to work, you have
> no
> choice.

That is the statement YOU made with your 5 million years of experience. THAT
statement could not be father from the truth. There are other choices and
they are more cost effective.

THAT was the statement that would seriously confuse the less educated
population regarding the wireless/RF part of the WISP installation. And when
I talk about "less educated" I don't mean someone is stupid.  I mean they do
not have or have a very limited knowledge base regarding RF and read this
list for information. For anyone that doesn't know better they could think
the only way they can make a link work is to use eliptical waveguide. And
that is incorrect.

There are tens of thousands of links running on Heliax/LMR cable and I am
NOT talking IF freq here. I'm talking RF out to the antenna.

And BTW.My theory of "WORK" is it does what it is advertised to do with
20 dB of fade regardless of freq band.

Puff and Grunt all you want..You're wrong.  :-P

-B-


On 8/20/08 10:48 AM, "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> For a passive device, (like a transmission line) the noise figure is equal
> to its attenuation.
> Sorry for confusing all you less educated people.  I guess this isn't the
> forum for answers that actually hold up to scutiny.
> 
> [puffs out chest and grunts]
> 
> (I guess my 5000 "carrier grade links" and my 500 miles of licensed
> microwave and my 30 years of doing this doesn't count as experience).
> Sheesh...
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 8:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] coax cables
> 
> 
>> I guess I need to go back to all my customers and remove their equipment
>> 
>> IMHO the statement you made cannot be from experience.
>> 
>> I have more than 500 carrier grade links in the air carrying IP and TDM
>> traffic with cable runs up to 150' of 5/8 heliax without a hickup.
>> 
>> It just depends on how its engineered.
>> 
>> Making the statement below is incorrect and only confuses the less
>> educated population on this list
>> 
>> Bob
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> 
>> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:00:51
>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] coax cables
>> 
>> 
>> If you have any distance at all to go, and you want it to work, you have
>> no
>> choice.
>> Transmission line loss adds DIRECTLY to receiver noise figure.
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 6:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] coax cables
>> 
>> 
>>> Eliptical waeguide is also $13 a foot, connectors are over $200 each, you
>>> need a bunch of special hardware to hang it and a dehydrator or nitrogen
>>> system to keep it dry.
>>> 
>>> I just don't picture the WRAP board group buying waveguide
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> 
>>> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:49:24
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] coax cables
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Elliptical waveguide will lose 3 dB in 250 feet.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Mike Brownson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:33 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] coax cables
>>> 
>>> 
 To give you the facts.  You can use just about any coax you want.  But
 you
 will have loss.  The smaller the cable the higher the loss.
 
 Examples:
 RG8 lose 3 db in 17 ft
 LMR400  lose 3db in 26 ft
 LMR600   lose 3 db in 40 ft
 1/2 heliax   lose 3 db in 49 ft
 LMR900  lose 3 db in 60 ft
 5/8 heliax   lose 3 db in 64 ft
 
 
 Remember that for every 6dB in loss you lose half your transmit and
 receive
 range.  So with 34 ft of RG 8 instead of 5 miles you get 2.5.  So use
 whatever cable you can get away with and still have the performance you
 need.  If you need every miliwatt to be useful then use coax only as a
 short
 jumper.
 
 Mike B
 
 
 On 8/19/08 9:45 PM, "Matt Jenkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> LMR 400? Are you crazy? Heliax 1/2 is the only way to go!
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> It can but the loss is high and the braid is much less. Stick with
>> LMRs
>> 400 *,5 '22@ )+_3 "2,/(:4 32*" 4:+3(
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: RickG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> 
>> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:33:57
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] coax cables
>> 
>> 
>> I'm ru

Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Dateline NBC Special on TowerDogs

[Bob Moldashel]

Can't be any worse than it is right now.like $104 per $100 of salary in
NY

-B-


On 7/18/08 12:19 AM, "Larry Yunker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> "according to figures cited by OSHA, these so-called tower dogs have the
> highest death rate per capita of any occupation in the country"
> 
> OUCH!!! I can just feel the impact on worker's compensation classification
> ratings already!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers

[Bob Moldashel]

At $10 each its probably a lot easier and safer to just replace the tube
when in doubt.  A whole new arrestor is only $25!


On 5/20/08 3:39 PM, "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The way I test the surge suppressors I manufacture is to place a high
> voltage across the suppression device (such as your gas tube).  The voltage
> must be higher than the breakdown voltage of the device.  Frequently 120 VAC
> from the outlet will do.  I use a variac coupled to a step up transformer so
> I can go to 1000 volts if needs be.
> 
> You must put a current limiting resistor in series with the gas tube to keep
> from blowing a circuit breaker and damaging the gas tube.  If the gas tube
> is firing, it will have a voltage across it at whatever level the breakdown
> voltage is.  If it is not firing, the full applied voltage will be measured.
> If it is shorted, very low or no voltage will be seen.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mark McElvy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:15 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Lightning Surge Suppressers
> 
> 
>> I have some Altelicon glass tube lightning surge arresters. I am trying
>> to figure out how to test then to see if they are good. I have used an
>> ohm meter to compare a new one with an old one I suspected to be bad but
>> all reads the same. The replaceable glass tube measures open on bothe
>> old and new.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mark McElvy
>> AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] UL 1Gbps Link

[Bob Moldashel]

Sorry..That should have been Terror Beam  :-)



Bob Moldashel
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Re: [WISPA] UL 1Gbps Link

[Bob Moldashel]

Done a good quantity of BridgeWave and have had no issues with water  
incursion.  Did a dual 80 Ghz. (one of the first deployments :-P  )  
last year.  2 links running side by side with less than 100 ft  
separation (factory wanted 400+ feet but the cost to make the  
building wider prohibited that.  That link was over 2 miles also.

The 60 Ghz. product lists for under $20K.  Proxim's Gigabeam (which I  
think was Terror Wave ) is less than that.  Bridgewave has a  
licensed 80 Ghz. system while Proxim has a licensed 70 Ghz.

Bob


On Apr 30, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Brad Belton wrote:

> This is well out of your budget for this project, but we recently  
> put up a
> BridgeWave 80GHz with 2' antennas.  Nice gear aside from the rinky- 
> dink ODU
> enclosure.  Pretty amazing to see a product at that price level with a
> plastic single edge housing seal with one center thumb screw  
> holding the lid
> on.  Good thing we bought a spare for the shelf because I don't see  
> how
> water won't get in eventually.
>
> The gear has performed as expected.  Full Duplex GigE and auto- 
> rates down to
> 100MB FDX if necessary.  It has withstood some pretty brutal storms  
> the past
> several months and has only completely dropped traffic for about 10-15
> seconds during the worst of it.
>
> The link is 2.35 miles, so we're very pleased with the overall uptime.
>
> I'm not sure you can find a GigE link for under $20K.  Have you  
> tried Steven
> Patrick with http://www.cablefreesolutions.com ?
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Gino Villarini
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:14 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] UL 1Gbps Link
>
> List
>
> I have to propose a half mile 100 Mbps upgradable to 1 Gbps Link, I  
> was
> thinking on 60 or 70/80 Ghz gear, customer budget is below $20k,
>
> What are the options?
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] MTI Antennas

[Bob Moldashel]

Winncom in Chicago




Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> MT-485025/SVH/E
>
> I am looking for these from MTI.  Anyone know of a US distributer that 
> might have stock?
>
> It is a dual pol 23 dbi that goes on the 1 foot enclosure.  I am 
> making some backhauls.
>
> Brian
> 
>
>
>
> 
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>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1383 - Release Date: 4/17/2008 
> 9:00 AM
>   




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Re: [WISPA] tower install

[Bob Moldashel]

Mike,

Really depends on your foundation and crane availability where you 
live.  If there are no cranes available you will pay more for a crew 
with a winch and gin pole. 200' is a safe price for $12-15K.  Foundation 
depends on type of soil, rock, etc.  Also accessibility to the area 
being developed.

Make sure whoever you get has insurance and provides you and the 
property owner with a certificate naming each of you as additional insureds.

BTW:   If you can't get anyone I'll mobilize a crew to come out and do 
it TOMORROW for the $24,000!   :-) 

I think you can do better.

Good Luck

Bob




Mike Goicoechea wrote:
> We are installing a tower (super titian sc 100 200 foot) in east Texas. We
> have got a bunch of quotes from different companies. We have received
> between $12,000-$24,000 for complete installation. Is that a normal amount?
>
>  
>
> Mike Goicoechea  
>  
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008
> 1:27 PM
>  
>
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[WISPA] Bye-Bye Wi-Fi..........

[Bob Moldashel]

http://www.rcrnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080208/FREE/ 
498388084/1018/FREE



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Re: [WISPA] Tornado

[Bob Moldashel]

Was this tower guyed???   How tall is/was it???

Nice site install though



On Feb 7, 2008, at 3:10 PM, David E. Smith wrote:

> Okay, less FEMA politics and more disaster pictures.
>
> http://images.bureau42.com/sa/blrv08/SANY0837.JPG
>
> (This was from Tuesday evening. We were nowhere near any tornadoes,  
> as far as I know, "just" 50-60mph winds.)
>
> David Smith
> MVN.net
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Tornado

[Bob Moldashel]

ennessee, Tuesday:
>>>> http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/06/tornado- 
>>>> destroyed-t
>>>> wo-radio-towers-used-several-st/
>>>>
>>>> Main tower hub for communications knocked down.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>>> Date:  Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:53:25 EST
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones.
>>>>>
>>>>> You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can
>>>>> be but I have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting
>>>>> tower or a multi story building.  Does this happen?
>>>>>
>>>>> Walter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
>>>>> Xanadu Group Inc.
>>>>> 179 Statesville Quarry Road
>>>>> Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
>>>>> 973-702-3899
>>>>> fax  775-667-1995
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL  
>>>>> Music.
>
>>>>> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy? 
>>>>> NCID=aolc
>>>>> mp00300025
>>>>> 48)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> -
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>> Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth.
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>
> --
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 FCC License #  
> PG-12-25133
> Author of the Cisco Press Book - "Deploying License-Free Wireless  
> WANs"
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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Video connection

[Bob Moldashel]

Joel,

You need an encoder and a decoder similar to this:

http://www.neteon.net/cat.aspx?clvl=2&c1=1&c2=153

Cheaper versions are available but this will give you an idea.

But in reality you may be better off installing a NVR (network video 
recorder) and just watch it with the associated software or media 
player.  And you would also be recording the video locally for playback 
if necessary. Don't really know your application.


Bob



Joel White wrote:

I am in need of a solution to take a camera who's output is either/or S-video
or Composite into an ethernet connection to then go into a wireless
transmission with another converter on the other end to take it back to
s-video or composite.
I also would like to have a a device to convert the video into a MP4 format so
as to need less bandwidth across the link. Please send any and all suggestions.

TIA

Joel White

NGA Support Team
NexGenAccess Inc.
www.nexgenaccess.com
740-513-4122

NexGenAccess Inc. <http://www.nexgenaccess.com>
--- End of Forwarded Message ---


NGA Support Team
NexGenAccess Inc.
www.nexgenaccess.com
740-513-4122

NexGenAccess Inc. <http://www.nexgenaccess.com>




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Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Bob Moldashel]

be:
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Re: [WISPA] Orinoco AP with packet loss (AP-1000)

[Bob Moldashel]

Luke,

This sounds like a "water in the connector" issue.  With moisture in  
a connector you will see high retransmits when the moisture  
crystalizes when it changes to ice at night.


Time to rip everything apart and look for ANY moisture in the  
connectors.  It also depends on what antenna you are using.  We have  
seen a fair share of omnis and panels weep water over time and lead  
up to the problem you have.


I highly doubt that it is an interference issue only at night.

I would rip everything apart.  Remove the antenna and shake it  
listening for moisture. But at the price of an omni I would just  
change it out to safe.


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:50 PM, Luke Pack wrote:

I have a problem that has been killing me lately.  I have an  
Orinoco AP with an Omni antenna.  I have about 20 clients or so  
that are hooked up to it. Lately ONLY at night this gets huge  
packet loss on the AP.  Local noise levels are not great anymore-  
but they are the same during the day (when it works fine) as they  
are at night.  Before I actually try to find a way to get some  
spectrum analysis out there during the problem (9:00 pm to about  
8-9 am) I was wondering if anyone might have some possibilities or  
suggestions?  It is noisy out that way with 2 other competitors  
totaling around 6 towers all in 2.4 range.  I have noticed a lot of  
retransmits on the AP in question, but again, the same amount when  
it is working as when it is not working.  the customers have about  
0-1% loss during the day and 10-40% loss at night. I have tried  
many different pig-tails and cards in the unit and checked the  
cable and connectors


Thanks for any help!

Regards,

Luke


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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Bob Moldashel]

Thanks George.  I just want to leave Vista on there incase something  
happens and I need to take the machine back to the geniuses at Best  
Buy.  they love to turn stuff on and blame software for issues.  Its  
a "just in case" issue.


Thanks!


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 AM, George Rogato wrote:

Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition  
utility built in.
So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition  
utility, squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install  
linux. Linux will find the space.


Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there  
if you really don't want vista.



Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:
I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition  
Magic and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one  
for OSXL

and used the remaining space for linux.
Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax
 -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question
Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a  
network  guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in  
naturesort of
I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the   
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard  
drive,  delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing  
anything to  the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other  
program available  to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.
Tnx.
-B-
Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

[Bob Moldashel]

That's what I thought.  I just need to find a "Dummies" verson so I  
can do it!  :-)


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:

I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic  
and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one  
for OSXL

and used the remaining space for linux.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question

Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort  
of


I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





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[WISPA] OT......Question

[Bob Moldashel]

Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network  
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of


I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,  
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to  
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available  
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)


If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]






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Re: [WISPA] LMR600 Vendor?

[Bob Moldashel]

Jason

How many do you need.  Contact me offlist.  I should be able to help  
you.


Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Comm

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Nov 12, 2007, at 8:27 PM, Jason Wallace wrote:


Gang,

   I am looking for some 15' LMR600 cables, N-type males both ends,  
one end 90°.  Anyone know where to find them?


Jason Wallace



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Re: [WISPA] Sprint and Clearwire scrap WiMax deal

[Bob Moldashel]

,
has staked its future on WiMax, a longer-range cousin of Wi-Fi that


can
  

theoretically provide wireless broadband access from
laptops and cellphones at speeds comparable to what cable operators 
provide.




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Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

[Bob Moldashel]

uare miles.  Could this be a solution 
for wooded areas with low to moderate population densities?  In other 
words, do you know anyone who has ever built a mesh network using 
SR9s and SBCs with multiple radios to achieve redundancy and 
ubiquitous coverage for small towns in the Southeast?  And using no 
towers by the way, LOL?  As I see it, the SR9 has 4 non-overlapping 
channels at 5MHz each.  Thats all I need. (I think)


No hub and spoke POPs off towers, please.  Been there done that. I 
don't think I could take that anymore. I'm not a climber and don't 
wish to hire any climbers unless it is for aggregate backhaul PtP 
which is fine. This post has nothing to do with PtP shots. But any 
thoughts or feedback on 900MHz meshing is appreciated.  I do see a 
few problems with this concept, however I am at the stage where I 
think some feedback might be helpful. I'm hoping some of you followed 
the muni wireless trend and gear from Strix, Tropos, Belair, etc.  
Not all their ideas were wrong or bad.


One last question or two if I may.  Is there only one manufacturer of 
900MHz mini-pci cards? (Ubiquiti SR9) Also, do you think it is it too 
late in 2007 to start a WISP?  ;)  Last, would 700MHz system 
eventually creep in over a few years and eat my lunch?


Thank you all and as always, good luck to all WISPs!

Best Regards,

Allen Marsalis
am @ bandwise dot com

P.S.   After all these years, I still cringe when lightning strikes 
and I think of you guys all the time.  :)  It is certainly good to 
see the WISP industry moving along and so many familiar names still 
in the business.  I wish you all continued success!


 



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Lakeland Communications, Inc.
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800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
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516-551-1131 Cell



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Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts

[Bob Moldashel]

nd I would add
should
take precedence over having a "designed by professionals" label) and one
should never mount equipment in a fashion which is likely to cause
serious injury
or death to innocent members of the community.
  


You cannot limit your statement to "innocent members of the community". 
All who gain access to the area in question must be provided with a safe 
work area. This is required by OSHA. The owner of the tank is 
responsible for providing a safe workplace. This is one of the main 
reasons why there are engineers who do what they do. Sure you can 
produce your own mounts and they may be fine and I do not have a problem 
with it. But sadlyI totally disagree with the magnet idea and feel 
that it should be eliminated in its entirety.


Too many entities/WISP's/ham radio operators/yahoos/etc allow money to 
dictate how things are done over proper construction practices and 
safety procedures. And THAT is wrong. I feel if a person/entity can't do 
something the "right" way than they are probably out of their league. 
Hell...I can't configure a server or program a piece of network 
equipment such as a switch or router. If I should be asked to do a 
firewall for a government agency should I try and do it myself and hope 
no one breaches their network or should I call someone that knows what 
they are doing and have them do it? 

But wait...I don't have the money to pay the "right person" what they 
are asking to do the job. Well..Maybe I am "out of my league" and should 
reconsider my position as I cannot adequately provide a safe and 
reliable system. Or should I take the position of "I think what I did is 
safe" and keep my fingers crossed???


In closing I probably could have responded differently initially. I 
apologize if I offended you with my bluntness. My primary industry 
(communications/cellular/tower contracting) lost two tower workers in 
Kansas within the last 72 hours after falling 500+ feet. Four workers 
within the past 60 days. Safety is my only issue when we get in the air. 
If I can't afford the right equipment, we don't do the job. We don't cut 
corners. Period.


Be safe, think safety.


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Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
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800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
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Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts

[Bob Moldashel]

Capacitive Stud welding.  Does not do a high heat tranfer thru the plate 
to disrupt the inside tank coating.


The studs are threaded and all you do is slide the mount over the holes 
and nut em down.


-B-




Tom DeReggi wrote:

OK. Fair Comment. So how do you do it right?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts



OK.  Bob gets flamed..

AUGH!

Not this thread again! Freakin magnets Come on guys!!

Does anyone consider what would happen if someone used these mounts 
for an anchorage point while working on a tank??  And please dont say 
that it is obvious and no one would do it because nothing is obvious 
to everyone.


It would be obvious to clip in and have 100 % tie off but 2 guys have 
died so far this year after falling from towers with their harnesses 
in tact.


My position is do it right or dont do it

Bob
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "J. Vogel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:12:54
To:WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts


Carl Shivers wrote:
We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. 
One
tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. 
The
other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over 
the top,
no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water 
Tower

mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the
plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution.
I have successfully used magnets on a couple of towers for 2 years 
now...


I don't completely trust them, so I also run a safety cable around 
the mast
and anchor it to a solid projection on the tower so that if the 
magnets did
turn loose, the mast wouldn't hit the ground, but in two years, and 
through

several thunderstorms and pretty good winds, the magnets haven't shifted
a bit that I can see.

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http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises, LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas

 

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800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
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Re: [WISPA] QuickMounts

[Bob Moldashel]

JohnnyO wrote:
Anyone ever use these ? http://www.towerstructures.com/catalog/rooftop_products/qwikmounts.html 


JohnnyO
  

Put up a heavy duty non pen. Those things cost a bundle.

Don't forget your promise.  :-)

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Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
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Re: [WISPA] Tower standoff

[Bob Moldashel]

Brings a new meaning to the phrase  "Workin' like a dog"

That could be any WISP owner

:-)





Mac Dearman wrote:

Behalf Of Smith, Rick

 
  

THAT'S why mine was so hard to do.  I didn't
have the dog :)

Thanks for that, Mac, it's pretty close to what we do..





[Mac says:] 



 WHAT DOG? 


That pic was taken by an OIB employee and that is how Harish's employee's
see him - - That is RICK!  :-)

Mac


 

  



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Re: [WISPA] Licensing my BH Links

[Bob Moldashel]

David E. Smith wrote:

Smith, Rick wrote:

How much does it cost to get path licenses ?

I.e. if I want a xxxGhz license between point a and b, how much does it
cost me ?

What are the licensed bands we can use, and with what equipment ?
  
That's a very broad question. It's probably better if you start with 
"I want an X capacity link between these points that are Y miles apart 
and have (clear/near/no) line-of-sight," and then we'll throw out lots 
of wacky ideas that might work for your specific situation.


David Smith
MVN.net

It appears he's looking for licensing info, not what equipment to use.

-B-

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Lakeland Communications, Inc.
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516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] 5.4 Ghz

[Bob Moldashel]

I agree with Matt though I am becoming more biased towards Exalt.  I 
have 6 Orthogon Spectra links in place for about a year now. I have had 
one radio failure that was promptly replaced when it was Orthogon not 
Motorola. I have also had 5 (yes FIVE) power supply failures during that 
time. Three were replaced quickly when it was Orthogon. My last 2 
replacements from Motorola took 9 days and had to be shipped from the 
UK. Not really happy with that.  Fortunately we had several spares from 
the Orthogon days.


I have 2 sites that are Exalt intense. One site has 4 links and the 
other has 7. On the site with four links we have three on one channel 
and one on another. Unfortunately we had an azimuth issue that prevented 
us from using just one.


On the second site we have all 7 links all on the same channel.  Now 
THAT's spectral efficiency.  Right Marlon???   :-P


Gotta luv that!

All of our links are outdoor ruggedized units. We have NO indoor only 
units. We are not using T1's.


We have had NO failures to date. We have GPS sync at all locations. We 
did have a mounting bracket that was missing hardware which was promptly 
replaced. Otherwise the stuff rocks.


It will also be great once the asymetrical bandwidth option is available 
in the next few weeks.


We have not tried any NLOS links with Exalt.

Bob




Matt Liotta wrote:
I wouldn't really compare Orthogon to Exalt as I believe they serve 
different market niches. We use both for very different purposes. 
Orthogon primarily for NLOS. We use Exalt for high throughput 5Ghz 
links. We used to use Orthogon for the same thing, but Exalt's sync 
capability allows for better spectrum usage, which is more important 
to us.


-Matt

Mike Hammett wrote:
It seems that Orthogon is about the same price, about the same 
channel size, and more bandwidth.


I see a TDM optimization in the Orthogon settings, though I dunno if 
they actually offer any TDM interfaces.


I also see a latency optimization setting, though my link is about 8 
ms. Not sure how that relates to others.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



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631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] FCC requests .. Bob M. what about FSO

[Bob Moldashel]

George,

i have done very few optical links.   I have installed a ton of wireless 
links to either replace them or back them up over the years.


I have not done one in about 2 years so I really can't comment on 
present new technology, if any.


Regards

-B-




George Rogato wrote:


Hey Bob M.
Seeing your on list and talking about short PtP sots.

What do you think about FSO, Plaintree?

Have you installed much and do you like? I'm thinking that I might 
have to go that way and figured you could advise.



George Rogato

Welcome to WISPA

www.wispa.org

http://signup.wispa.org/



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Re: [WISPA] FCC requests comment on smaller dishes for 11 GHz

[Bob Moldashel]

11 Ghz.Short distance hops.NO

There is spectrum for short hops.  There is spectrum for medium hops.  
There is even spectrum for long hops.


11 Ghz. is not appropriate for short hops.  Not when there is 18, 23, 
24, 38, 60 and 80 Ghz.  Even smack in the center of NYC I can get higher 
channels to do what is needed for short hops. There is no reason to use 
11 Ghz. period for short hops...


-B-


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Re: [WISPA] LMR600, LMR900, Heliax

[Bob Moldashel]

Inline



Ralph wrote:


If EVERYONE is misled, then EVERYONE needs a lesson in radio- especially you
Jonny-O. My "BS" as you call it comes from over 30 years in 2 way and data
radio and over 10 years in RF Engineering. But before you tell folks to
leave radios on the ground, you'd better check your sources again. 


I'd love some of your $1.50 per foot 7/8" Heliax.
7/8" Heliax was  $3.00 per foot 25 YEARS AGO!
Back then, 1/2" Heliax was about $1.80  per ft.
 



There is a ton of this on the market.  We are presently buying 7/8" x 
1000' rolls from many other cell site construction companies at about $1 
foot.  I presently have a source for 6K feet and I am sure I could find 
a poop load more in 48 hours.




I'm surprised that the price hasn't changed that much since then, but I'll
bet there's not as much copper in it. I know the center conductor is copper
clad aluminum now.

Maybe your $1.50 7/8" Heliax was the piece that got water in it and was
discarded by the radio shop.

 


See above..



For 900 MHz, 1/2" would possibly *adequate* but I would not recommend it at
all. For 2.4 GHz, you might consider 7/8", but for 5.8, better forget
anything less then 1 5/8", but most real users use waveguide.
 



Please research your statement.  You cannot use 1 5/8 Heliax for 5Ghz 
anything.



Heck- even XM Radio uses elliptical waveguide at their frequency of about
2.3 GHz for their terrestrial transmitters- and they have 100 watt power
levels! I can send you a picture right now!

Putting the radios at the antennas saves vast amounts of costs in feed line.
Your tower owners are happier, and your rent might be cheaper.  I know that
we charge the other WISPs we rent space to much less because they use CAT5.

The best use of $ for RF is to use antenna gain.  You have nearly wasted
that if you long feed lines of improper sizing.

As far as justifying my statements- I don't really need to. Anyone can do
the calculations, taking feed line and connector loss and subtracting it
from antenna gain and radio power.  The procedures and the numbers are there
and speak for themselves.

Andrew makes a spiffy calculator for this purpose and it is available, free,
at http://www.andrew.com/downloads/ilcalc/default.aspx


All of the following figures include a pair of Andrew N type male 
connectors.



A 100 foot long piece of Andrew LDF4-50A (1/2") at 2450 MHz has a loss of
3.64 dB. That's over half of your power wasted.   List price (cable only) is
$1.56 per foot.  The connectors are $20.00 - 45.00 each depending on
material.

A 100 foot long piece of Andrew LDF5-50A (7/8") at 2450 MHz has a loss of
2.1   List price (cable only) is $3.58 per foot. The connectors are $34.82
each

A 100 foot long piece of Andrew LDF7-50A (1 5/8") at 2450 MHz has a loss of
1.28 dB  List price (cable only) is $9.33 per foot.  This cable is very
heavy so figure in a lot of freight as well.  The connectors are $153.22
each

Now if you would like to use a very efficient feed line, you can use EW20-25
Elliptical waveguide, which is technically the correct cable for microwave
frequencies like these.  It will cost you $33.40 per foot.  The connectors
are only about $1570.00 each, but you will have onlt  .45 dB of loss in 100
feet!


Remember that these numbers are only for 2450 MHz.  5.2 and 5.8 loss is
higher, but waveguide for that frequency is lots smaller and lighter and has
only 1.35dB loss at 5200MHz.  $23.5 per foot and only $500.00 per connector.


I'm not going to justify my statements on amplifiers either. You can (and
should) read Part 15 for yourself.  Go try to get Teletronics to give you an
FCC waiver, or go ask your AP manufacturer, assuming they are even building
certified equipment.
 



An amplifier manufacturer cannot grant an "FCC waiver" for anything.  
And the AP manufacturer must submit the combination to the Part 15 cert 
lab for combined "package" certification as a system...  I know that is 
the case because this was discussed with Commission representatives 
directly when we were in Washington a couple of years ago.  I think 
marlon still has the pictures Right Marlon   :-)



The problem I see with many of today's WISPs is that they are making up
their own rules to suit themselves.   Recently I saw a WISP post a
recommendation to another WISP to set up a device to intentionally interfere
with Wal-Mart's 900 MHz RFID systems. 
 



Frustration will make people say things that at times they either don't 
mean, wish they could take back or trying to get a laugh



Nothing I say can stop or even sway any of you- that will have to come from
someone with that kind of clout.  Maybe a competitor who follows the rules
will come into your market, or maybe you'll cause a problem with something
licensed and you'll have a white Ford Explorer with a government tag and
antennas hidden in the headliner pull up at your tower- but why would it
even have to come to that.
 



Wow.Every guy I ever dealt wi

Re: [WISPA] LMR600, LMR900, Heliax

[Bob Moldashel]

OK.Now for the lesson in CABLE :-P

You can't use 1 5/8 heliax above 2.5 Ghz.  Its not rated for it.  And 
forget 5 Ghz.  Won't work. 


5/8 heliax MAX at 5 Ghz and above.

-B-



Ralph wrote:


You can buy them at Tessco, I'm pretty sure.   Stick with Heliax (r)  type
cables (hard line) for those distances, and use 1 5/8 minimum. The loss is
amazing at anything above 450 MHz.  Look at any cell tower and you will see
what you need to use, then count on twice the loss if you use 2.4 or many
more times that at 5.2 or 5.8  Look at a price range of tens of $ a foot,
once installed properly.

This brings you to the next obvious issue.  Now for the lesson in RADIO.

You have degraded your system so much by adding loss, you can figure that
your antenna just magically became 0 dB gain instead of what it was.  You
may even totally offset the antenna gain and be upside down (as they say at
the car dealer down the street).

So go buy the best antenna you can, with the most gain possible.  Of course
now that moves us to the next step.  Can't get a high gain antenna because
now the tower company wants more rent, or the wind load is too high, or the
pattern is too narrow.

On to the next step-  More APs so you can cover the areas that your new
high-gain antennas leave out.  Then, more hard line, then more $$$ etc.

Or you can take the illegal, easy way out. Buy Amp.   Create noise, Violate
Part 15 and your radio's certification. Leave yourself open for a fine.

Sounds to me that you are better off doing what most discovered the hard
way:  Leave the radios up top, do a great installation job, weatherproof,
lightning protect, and enjoy the power you paid so dearly per milliwatt for
in the first place!


Ralph

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Scott Reed
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] LMR600, LMR900, Heliax

Who supplies pre-terminated (N connectors) cables in the 70 to 150' 
range using LMR 600, LMR900 and/or Heliax?  Looking to move radios to 
the bottom of towers.


 



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Re: [WISPA] LMR600, LMR900, Heliax

[Bob Moldashel]

OK.Lets talk cable

1.  You can't use 1 1/4 or 1 5/8 heliax at 5 Ghz anything.  Can't use 
7/8 heliax there either.  You canbut it won't work right


2. You can use 5/8 heliax at 5.8 Ghz and below.

3. LMR900 is the largest Times cable you can use at 5.8Ghz.

4. You can use 1 1/4 Heliax at 2.4 without issue.  2.5 Ghz is the top 
limit for 1 5/8 Heliax.


5. 1 1/4" heliax and above needs REAL mounting hardware to secure it to 
the tower or structure.  This means hanger brackets, hoisting grips,  
and ground kits made for heliax. Don't think you can tie a rope to it 
and pull it up or use tie wraps to secure it.  It won't hold more than 
100 feet or so vertically. 


6.  Heliax also means real connectors.

7. You can't lift several hundreds of feet of large heliax by hand (nor 
should you). You need a capstan/winch to do this right. 1 5/8 is about 1 
lb per foot.


8.  Connector attachment is more critical at 5 Ghz on heliax. We have 
seen connectors sweep like crap when it was thought they were installed 
correctly.


9. Do not use "USED" connectors. Always use new and follow the 
directions for attachment.


10. Personally I am not an LMR900 fan.  We use 5/8 heliax at this point.

11.  I am an LMR600 big fan.  We use a poopload of this cable every month.

12.  I use LMR400 for jumpers mostly

13. Losses are:

1 5/8   2.4 Ghz.   1.4dB   5Ghz.  Do Not Use
1 1/4   2.4 Ghz.1.6dB  5Ghz   Do Not Use
7/8  2.4 Ghz.2.3dB  5Ghz   Do Not Use
5/8  2.4 Ghz.2.0dB  5Ghz.   4.3 dB
1/2  2.4 Ghz 3.9db   5GHz.  6.3dB

LMR Cable loss is found on the Times web site.

14.  You can't make quick right angle turns with 1 1/4" and above.

15. Heliax is very unforgiving if you kink it or fold it in half.  If 
you fold it ya gotta cut it.


Installed properly heliax will be the better choice for low loss 
especially on long runs (200'+)


Bob
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Re: [WISPA] Walmart RFID update

[Bob Moldashel]

That's great Ray

Can you post the contact info here in case someone else runs into this 
issue??


Thanks and good luck with them

Bob


Ray & Jean wrote:


Hello Everyone
Wanted to update you on our walmart rfid problem.We spent hours on monday 
trying to talk to someone on their rfid deployment team,we finally made 
contact.We were informed that it used the whole spectrum,had to run at full 
power and used circular polarity.They stated they were operating within the 
legal limits and could not change anything to help with our interference 
problem.I ask if they could turn off their equipment for 30 days to give us a 
chance to relocate to a new site.They agreed to two weeks which suprised 
me.When they turned it off all of our links instantly went back to working 
including the one inside their store at the eye doctors office.We start looking 
for a new site and equipment to install on it.Well today walmart calls us and 
say they want to work with us on the problem and they are sending a engineer to 
this store to check for a possible rogue piece of equipment and possibly trying 
to place some type of schielding between them and us IF we will QUIT posting 
info about this problem on broadband reports forum.I am amazed that they 
changed their whole attitude because of a little bad pr.Maybe we will be able 
to find a solution to the problem now that they seem willing to cooperate.Again 
thanks to everone who offered their advice on the situation.
Ray Hill
surfmore.net
 



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Re: [WISPA] tower climbing

[Bob Moldashel]

Looks like someone was not paying attention when they installed it.  You 
just gotta get balls of steel and slide over.  Down one cross member and 
up another. We do it all the time.


BTW:   Be careful...  :-)

-B-





Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

I am looking for some advice on the proper climbing technique for a 
new tower we just installed on. Over the past 10 years, I have climbed 
hundreds of towers including free standing, guyed, 40ft to 120ft 
without any problems or fears. However this new tower is much more 
difficult. I believe it's a Rohn 200ft free standing tower with 3 
legs. The issue is there are only foot pegs on one leg up to the 80ft 
level... then the pegs start on another leg and go up from 80ft to the 
top. Getting from one leg to another at the 80ft level is the 
challenge. As you can see from the picture, the gap from the top brace 
to the bottom brace is almost 10feet in the center (I am 6'1").


http://www.ida.net/users/tlj/teton.JPG

Anyone have any suggestions on a better way to accomplish the leg to 
leg movements across the braces?


Thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid

[Bob Moldashel]

If their signal occupies the whole band it is probably FHSS in nature.  
So changing to a 5 or 10 Mhz. channel will not be possible.  Also, it 
may not be possible to turn down the power. So it may not be that simple.


A certified letter from an attorney is probably more in order.  
Unfortunately using unlicensed spectrum does not leave you with much 
recourse.  This has been discussed over and over on these lists but the 
final outcome is always that you are taking a risk using Part 15 spectrum.


Good luck in your battle.

Bob



Ray & Jean wrote:


Travis
Thanks for the input .that is a possible solution but not one that 
could be implemented quickly or easily.It would require a new Hpol  
omni about $2200 a climb to install it and a trip to about 100 
customers home to change their eum antenna to h pol.This may be how it 
gets resolved but really all we need to to do is have them turn the 
power down on their equipment which only needs to reach 100 ft or the 
area of their loading dock.or drop to a 5or 10 mhz channel that is not 
on our freq of 918.4.It would be a simple problem to resolve if we 
could get any cooperation from walmart.Any ideas on how how we could 
create interference to their system to get their attention.I realize 
this is not the proper way to resolve the problem but it might 
encourge them to be better rf neighbors maybe.

Thanks
Ray Hill
- Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] walmart rfid


Hi,

You may want to try changing polarity and see if that helps. Often going
from vertical to horizontal will make a big difference.

Travis
Microserv

Ray & Jean wrote:

Hello List We have an interference problem come up this week that we 
have been unable to resolve.Hopefully someone here has some input on 
how to resolve it.The problem is walmart installed a rfid scanning 
system at there loading dock which instantly raised the noise floor 
at our 900 mhz waverider access point by 20 db which killed about 30 
of our weakest links.this equipment is operating across the whole 
band so there is no way to change channels and get away from it.The 
walmart store manager says its not his problem and refuses to call 
the company that installed it .I called the company which is adt 
security and they refuse to do anything unless walmart request 
it.walmart home office will not return my calls and the regional 
manager actually hung up on me and will not take calls from us now.We 
have been very polite with them upto this point and gave them no 
reason to act like jerks.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to 
resolve this problem?

Thanks
Ray Hill
surfmore. net





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Re: [WISPA] License Wireless Link. Microwave Networks

[Bob Moldashel]

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


Hey there Bob!

How the heck have you been?  I called a couple of times to say hello 
but never made it past your voice jail.  I was starting to wonder if 
you'd fallen off a ladder or something!


laters,
marlon 


Not me.  Sorry for not getting back to you but you never left a number 
when you left a message and I lost your number when I changed 
Blackberry's.  I yes I am too lazy/busy to look it up on the web.


Been just real busy.  Don't have time for anything...  Hope all is well 
with everyone here.


BTW:  I would have thought you would have retired by now Marlon!   :-)

-B-
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Re: [WISPA] License Wireless Link. Microwave Networks

[Bob Moldashel]

Rumor has it they are up for sale...   FYI





Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I've known them for a long time.  Not one of the big guys but never 
heard anything at all bad about them either.


Really good folks.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Javier Arigita" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 4:22 AM
Subject: [WISPA] License Wireless Link. Microwave Networks


I am looking for a high capacity link in license bands. I am having a 
look

at Microwave Networks (/www.microwavenetworks.com). Do you have any
experience with this manufacturer?

I am not really an expert in license links. I know Ceragon, 
Dragonwave and
Microwave. Does anyone have an idea of the ranking of vendors for 
license

wireless links?

Many Thanks and Best Regards,

Javier Arigita
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Re: [WISPA] Point To Point Link - What is it?

[Bob Moldashel]

Alsonothing like going to the costs of buying a dual polarity 
antenna for a radio that has 2 antenna ports then not putting a cable to 
connect it!  :-)


Gotta luv it

-B-




Mike Delp wrote:


http://www.midconqc.com/images/IMG_1372.JPG

http://www.midconqc.com/images/IMG_1375.JPG


Something doesn't work at this location and we have been asked to look into
it.  I am not familiar with this.

Thanks for any and all help

Mike


 



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Re: [WISPA] Point To Point Link - What is it?

[Bob Moldashel]

Mike,

We have installed 25+  links of Exalt.  Feel free to contact me if I can 
help.


516-551-1131

Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Comm
516-551-1131




Mike Delp wrote:


http://www.midconqc.com/images/IMG_1372.JPG

http://www.midconqc.com/images/IMG_1375.JPG


Something doesn't work at this location and we have been asked to look into
it.  I am not familiar with this.

Thanks for any and all help

Mike


 



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Re: [WISPA] Power cables???

[Bob Moldashel]

Thanks Eric!




Eric Albert wrote:


Hi Bob,

Take a look at this site for cables.

http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/PWC-100.html

Call Full Compass Systems at 1-800-356-5844. They are an excellent
distributor for this kind of stuff as well as for all things pro-audio,
video, lighting, etc. 


Eric Albert
Application Engineer
Alvarion, Inc.

650-641-0072 CA Office
866-836-3844 Fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: rericalbert



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 6:41 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Power cables???

Anyone have a source for PC power cables that are around one foot in 
length.   I need about 40 of them.


Tnx.

 




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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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[WISPA] Power cables???

[Bob Moldashel]

Anyone have a source for PC power cables that are around one foot in 
length.   I need about 40 of them.


Tnx.

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Fw: Happy Holidays from Redline Communications

[Bob Moldashel]

W.D.McKinney wrote:


It's really to bad that good companies in the wireless business bow to a few 
that seem to think we don't know why it's a season to celebrate? Let me say 
wholeheartedly and unabashedly  Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to 
everyone.

Cheers,
-Dee


Alaska Wireless Systems
1(907)240-2183 Cell
1(907)349-2226 Fax
1(907)349-4308 Office
www.akwireless.net
 




Ahh.It's also */hanukkah/* 
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=hanukkah&spell=1>  
so its not unreasonable to say Happy Holidays.


I celebrate Christmas because I am Christian but there are also other 
holidays during this time of the year so "Happy Holidays" is not 
unreasonable


--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] FW: Notice That Public Release of FCC Form 477 Data Has Been Sought

[Bob Moldashel]

No Comment..  :-)

It was just a matter of time

-B-




Rick Smith wrote:


nope :)  Guess why.  Right.  No one's getting my info from that data.
 




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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5

[Bob Moldashel]

There are 66 blocks that are CAT5 rated.  We have also terminated on 66 
blocks that were CAT5 rated and had RJ45's pre mounted and terminated to 
the block.  If I find the mfg/part number I'll post it.


BTW:  I owe you a phone call.

-B-


Brad Belton wrote:


I have been told the same regarding terminating pairs on a 110 block vs. 66
block.  110 blocks were made with CAT5 in mind whereas 66 blocks were around
probably long before CAT5 was widely implemented.

I'm not sure if they make 66 blocks that are CAT5 rated or not, but the ones
we use come with covers labeled CAT5.  We've used them in a number of
projects ranging from water towers to apartment complexes.

Yes, I understand there is a common color code used for 25pr, but we simply
keep the pairs in the same order at each end of the cable.  We haven't had
any trouble maintaining 100MB FDX over this setup and in some cases the
cable is every bit of 330'...maybe a bit more.

Best,


Brad

 




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

Tom,

You have been responding to this whole thread like I have been attacking 
your position.  I'm not.


My statement in a summary...  Efficient use of the spectrum has 
multiple positions.  Unfortunately others may not fit into my business 
plan. 

I am not saying blow them off the air and not work with them. I am 
saying that if someone comes along and can't make their new service work 
because I occupy the whole band then that sucks to be him.  There are 
going to be situations where people are going to get interfered with.  
If there wasn't, the Commission would have licensed the band as you know.


There will be survivors and there will be descendants.

I like being a survivor

-B-

BTW:  The WAR board is not type accepted.  But you know that.  :-P



Tom DeReggi wrote:


You are still totally missing the point...

In doing so you may wipe out or interfere with the poor little WISP 2 
miles away.  What do you do???



Thats not generally the outcome. If the little WISP down the street 
just goes away, there is no problem.  But he doesn't because his whole 
livelihood is invested in his WISP business.  What happens is after  
you wipe out the poor little WISP 2 miles away,  the little WISP buys 
a big club (big radio) and wipes you out back, and smiles after he 
Wiped out the poor little you.


This isn't a battle about 15K gear and cheap gear.  Its been proven 
over and over again that cooperation is more effective than fighting a 
WAR.


The BIG rich over confident provider no longer has the upper hand to 
bully the little poor WISP2, just because they are better funded.  Its 
amazing what harm a $200 WARboard and 400mw card will do with a $180 
3ft PAC Wireless dish.  Not that I'm suggest attempt harm. I'm just 
saying WISP2 can now afford to grab just a big a club as you can. This 
is a REAL Risk, and equalizes the playing field.  You play nice or 
everyone looses.


I never said its not occasionally necessary to install over someone 
else. You do what you need to do, to get the link done. I simply 
suggested to avoid it when you can, unless their was just cause to do 
other wise. I just can't understand why participants on this thread 
have not grasped this simple principle.  If you don't get it by now, 
I'm wasting my breath.  I'm done with this one.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options



OK...Lets look at this whole issue with one other twist.
Let's say you need a large pipe to carry 100 Mb full duplex between 2 
locations.  You happen top have a $15K link sitting on the shelf that 
you could deploy.  In doing so you may wipe out or interfere with the 
poor little WISP 2 miles away.  What do you do???


Incur more expenses by buying another link that will not cause 
interference??


Do you pay the ILEC/CLEC?etc for a 100 Mb pipe???

Or do you put it up and just "go with it"???

I bet I know what most of you would do.  Werger or not you will print 
it is another issue.


But let's hear it.
What would ya do?.

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

Oh Comon' Dude.  A life safety system on unlicensed microwave???  
What idiot would put the E911 system on Part 15 to begin with?  That's 
just a lawsuit looking to happen.


And as far as your second example...what happens when the other WISP is 
uneducated and builds a crappy system and his network is up and down and 
operates poorly??  What happens when the end user starts bitchin 
then???  What happens when Chavez stops selling us oil???  What happens 
when the mailman suddenly wants Saturdays off???  What happens..


If the competition gets blown off the air, I "sell" my service to the 
customer and work hard not to suffer the issues that he had with the 
prior provider. The customer in most cases goes with price and 
reliability, not type of service method.  You know that


:-)

-B-





Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Well, SOP in a case like this is to find a way to not cause 
catastrophic interference to anyone that was there first.


Lets change your example a little bit.  Lets make it a link that the 
E911 system uses.  You gonna blow it offline just because you can?  
Should you do that?  What would your reputation in the community be?


Now lets go up another level.  When you blow your competitor offline, 
what does that do the your industry's reputation?  Did you really gain 
anything, in the long run, by doing so?  Nope.  You hurt him AND you 
shot yourself in the foot by causing more doubt about your technology 
choices.


Then there's always that ol' fashioned notion of an eye for an eye, or 
do unto others.  grin


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



----- Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options



OK...Lets look at this whole issue with one other twist.
Let's say you need a large pipe to carry 100 Mb full duplex between 2 
locations.  You happen top have a $15K link sitting on the shelf that 
you could deploy.  In doing so you may wipe out or interfere with the 
poor little WISP 2 miles away.  What do you do???


Incur more expenses by buying another link that will not cause 
interference??


Do you pay the ILEC/CLEC?etc for a 100 Mb pipe???

Or do you put it up and just "go with it"???

I bet I know what most of you would do.  Werger or not you will print 
it is another issue.


But let's hear it.
What would ya do?.

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

OK...Lets look at this whole issue with one other twist. 

Let's say you need a large pipe to carry 100 Mb full duplex between 2 
locations.  You happen top have a $15K link sitting on the shelf that 
you could deploy.  In doing so you may wipe out or interfere with the 
poor little WISP 2 miles away.  What do you do???


Incur more expenses by buying another link that will not cause 
interference??


Do you pay the ILEC/CLEC?etc for a 100 Mb pipe???

Or do you put it up and just "go with it"???

I bet I know what most of you would do.  Werger or not you will print it 
is another issue.


But let's hear it. 


What would ya do?.........

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

s it send a 
large number of reflections bouncing all across the city which are 
adative to all the other noise sources.  I'd still argue using a radio 
that is more efficient will have less risk, if one is available that 
can meet the need.


The problem with using a radio that uses full 100mhz is that there is 
no way to immediately resurrect interference, with no channel to run 
to, without contacting the interferor. 


See my Walmart comments.  Unfortunately sometimes you can talk 
to the competition until they are blue in the face and nothing will 
happen. 



This forces your interfered with to resort to desperate measures to 
resolve the interference on their own link. It brings out the worse in 
your newly created enemy. Its best to allow your apponent a mechanism 
to cure the problem without being required to taking you down back, 
and asking questions later. Its about conflict avoidance not winning a 
conflict.


Agreed...But that is not going to win all the wars unfortunately..  It's 
the gentlemens way to do things but not everyone in business is a gentleman.



The truth is its almost impossible to tell whether you will interfere 
with some one else. The reason is that you can scan for noise, but you 
can't tell what equipment the other party is using , what noise floor 
they require to opperate, or the distance of their link.   Again if 
you scan first, and the channel is empty, there is no issue here. But 
I find it rare in DC to find ANY channel that is "EMPTY". 


Oh..Oh..Then I guess you won't be too happy if I tell you I have 
deployed 5 Exalt links in Wash. DC.   100 Mb  5 Ghz...



The challenge is usually what do I have to do to get over the noise 
floor.  A 2ft dish still have a beamwidth of minimum 6deg, which 
covers a lot of territory indense Urban america.



You can only do the best you can with what you can afford.

My reply was not directed towards your response.  It was directed to the 
thread in general.  With unlicensed equipment there is going to be 
interference. And there are going to be companies that will go out of 
business because they can't compete wether it financially or with 
spectrum.  Business is the oportunity to create something that will 
provide for others as well as for the owner.  The federal government 
believes competition is good as we all know from the 
telco/LEC/CLEC/DLEC/ELEC/FLEC...etc, etc situation.  But you and I as 
small business do not want competition (I surely don't...excuse me for 
being greedy  :-)).  If I was in the position, while it is not "nice" 
play, I would do everything in my power to use up as much of the 
spectrum as possible to keep others out.  The oil companies do it every 
day.  So do the pharmaceutical companies.  As do others   What the 
hell...look at Canopy.  Do you think Motorola cares if they interfere 
with everyone and their brother???  NoThey care about market share 
at any legal means possible.


And that's BIG business.

:-)

Have a great dayI have to go install another Exaly link in NYC and 
I'm late...


-B-



Rant done.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options



Matt Liotta wrote:


Matt Liotta wrote:


Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy.



Whoops... meant inefficient.

-Matt


100 Mb FD on a 32 Mhz. channel.....That's not bad.

Besides...get the GPS syc option and you can tie in a handful of 
links on the same channel.  That makes them very efficient


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

http://www.exaltcom.com/


BTW:  What kind of truck do you have   :-P





Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


I thought that they did.  How much do they use?

- Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options




It doesn't use the entire band...




Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


NOo

NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is 
always on.  No more WMux fiascos needed.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

BTW::  While we are talking responsibility and efficiency how many of 
you guys and gals drive SUV's, Pick-Up trucks, Vans and other 8 cylinder 
vehicles  Put your hands up.  You know who you are..


:-)

-B-


Bob Moldashel wrote:


OK...Lets have a review..

It does not use the whole band.

It has GPS sync so you can use multiple links on the same channel.  
That makes it efficient...


It works for the application..

There is a big difference of opinion here regarding spectrum usage.  
My way of seeing it is as follows.


1.  I always install links with the largest possible antennas to keep 
my beamwidth as narrow as possible regardless of distance.  In NYC I 
consistently use 2' antennas for links one mile or less.


2. We use only the power we need to do the job.  Many of our links are 
running 0-5 dB of output at the radio.


3. We always mount antennas using rooftop structures or adjacent 
buildings to shield us from others.


4.  Interference happens.  We have not had any interference with FD 
constant carrier radios.  Period.


Another position is why should several users be allowed to use 
equipment that eats up the band passing say a simple video stream and 
such??  How is that "efficient"  They are eating channels running 
a couple of megs.I'm eating it running 100 Mb FD.  How about the 
WISP's that are using 120* sector antennas and throwing RF all over 
the place every time one of his 3 subscribers decides to use their 
system??  How is that spectrum efficency???  Or the guy that uses an 
omni and the 1 watt amp???
I can go on and on.  The spectrum is limited.  That sucks.  But 
business is business and it is important to do what is necessary to 
provide for your business at the most cost effective manner possible.  
Is WalMart going to be considerate of you if you have a little 5 & 10 
store on the next block???   Of course not.  And why??? Because they 
are serving the masses at a price that the masses want and that is 
what it takes to serve the masses.  Will some of the 5&10 operators go 
out of business because they can't compete??  Sure they will.  Its 
called competition. And that is just what Matt is doing.  If he has 
the demand then he needs to do what is necessary.  If his business 
model does not allow him to purchase expensive licensed equipment over 
cheaper unlicensed equipment then so be it.  That's business.


I came from the 2 way radio industry.  I fought the beast (Nextel) for 
several years before it finally killed the 2-way radio industry.  I 
was somewhat fortunate because we did predominately Public Safety and 
Government accounts.  We were the ones to get up at 2AM on a Sunday to 
fix a base station while all the 2-way shops that were doing 9-5 
business customers were home sleeping.  When nextel killed 2-way 
dispatch all the other radio shops decided to start fixing Public 
safety and Govt customer equip.  The labor rate went from $100 per 
hour to $40 per hour just so guys could survive. Many went out of 
business. Am I upset???  Sure.  Did I plan for my future??  Sure.  We 
turned on big time to microwave 12 years ago when most of you didn't 
even know about it. As such we have avoided the dreaded Nextel 
monster. Am I going to be able to do what I am doing forever???  Of 
course not.  I am already planning my next transition.


If most of you guys think you are going to be WISP's 10+ years from 
now I think you need to re-examine your business plan


I am sure that many will be unhappy with this rant but I think it 
needs to be real food for thought.  If I was in business and i needed 
100 Mb FD of throughput between locations I'll be damned if I am going 
to spend extra money for equipment so I don't interfere with someone 
else in the future.


PLEASE NOTE*I AM NOT ENDORSING INTENTIONAL INTERFERENCE BY 
ANYONE.  So please don't say I am


Good luck!

-B-




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

OK...Lets have a review..

It does not use the whole band.

It has GPS sync so you can use multiple links on the same channel.  That 
makes it efficient...


It works for the application..

There is a big difference of opinion here regarding spectrum usage.  My 
way of seeing it is as follows.


1.  I always install links with the largest possible antennas to keep my 
beamwidth as narrow as possible regardless of distance.  In NYC I 
consistently use 2' antennas for links one mile or less.


2. We use only the power we need to do the job.  Many of our links are 
running 0-5 dB of output at the radio.


3. We always mount antennas using rooftop structures or adjacent 
buildings to shield us from others.


4.  Interference happens.  We have not had any interference with FD 
constant carrier radios.  Period.


Another position is why should several users be allowed to use equipment 
that eats up the band passing say a simple video stream and such??  How 
is that "efficient"  They are eating channels running a couple of 
megs.I'm eating it running 100 Mb FD.  How about the WISP's that are 
using 120* sector antennas and throwing RF all over the place every time 
one of his 3 subscribers decides to use their system??  How is that 
spectrum efficency???  Or the guy that uses an omni and the 1 watt amp??? 

I can go on and on.  The spectrum is limited.  That sucks.  But business 
is business and it is important to do what is necessary to provide for 
your business at the most cost effective manner possible.  Is WalMart 
going to be considerate of you if you have a little 5 & 10 store on the 
next block???   Of course not.  And why??? Because they are serving the 
masses at a price that the masses want and that is what it takes to 
serve the masses.  Will some of the 5&10 operators go out of business 
because they can't compete??  Sure they will.  Its called competition. 
And that is just what Matt is doing.  If he has the demand then he needs 
to do what is necessary.  If his business model does not allow him to 
purchase expensive licensed equipment over cheaper unlicensed equipment 
then so be it.  That's business.


I came from the 2 way radio industry.  I fought the beast (Nextel) for 
several years before it finally killed the 2-way radio industry.  I was 
somewhat fortunate because we did predominately Public Safety and 
Government accounts.  We were the ones to get up at 2AM on a Sunday to 
fix a base station while all the 2-way shops that were doing 9-5 
business customers were home sleeping.  When nextel killed 2-way 
dispatch all the other radio shops decided to start fixing Public safety 
and Govt customer equip.  The labor rate went from $100 per hour to $40 
per hour just so guys could survive. Many went out of business. Am I 
upset???  Sure.  Did I plan for my future??  Sure.  We turned on big 
time to microwave 12 years ago when most of you didn't even know about 
it. As such we have avoided the dreaded Nextel monster. Am I going to be 
able to do what I am doing forever???  Of course not.  I am already 
planning my next transition.


If most of you guys think you are going to be WISP's 10+ years from now 
I think you need to re-examine your business plan


I am sure that many will be unhappy with this rant but I think it needs 
to be real food for thought.  If I was in business and i needed 100 Mb 
FD of throughput between locations I'll be damned if I am going to spend 
extra money for equipment so I don't interfere with someone else in the 
future.


PLEASE NOTE*I AM NOT ENDORSING INTENTIONAL INTERFERENCE BY ANYONE.  
So please don't say I am


Good luck!

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

There is a matching network that goes on the rear of the antenna.  At 
higher freqs the loss is much lower than on lower freqs.


-B-




Matt Liotta wrote:


Bob Moldashel wrote:

You can do that now with 3 Ceragon or Dragonwave radios phased into 1 
antenna with much better redundancy.  If one link dies you still have 
the other two.



How are you phasing the radios together without significant loss?

-Matt




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

Matt Liotta wrote:


Matt Liotta wrote:


Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy.


Whoops... meant inefficient.

-Matt


100 Mb FD on a 32 Mhz. channel.That's not bad.

Besides...get the GPS syc option and you can tie in a handful of links 
on the same channel.  That makes them very efficient


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

The GiGe radio is only 500 Mb:-)

You can do that now with 3 Ceragon or Dragonwave radios phased into 1 
antenna with much better redundancy.  If one link dies you still have 
the other two.


And they are available now with type acceptance.

-B-



Brad Belton wrote:


Not only that, but is the GigE radio even available yet?

Brad

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 


The Gigacom product is the only one that you can get any real long
   


distance out of depending on the freq. They have licensed radios that
perform very well in the rainforest of South America at very long distance.
60k or 40 miles for some applications at speeds of up to a Gig. One of if
not the best Gig. radio on the mrkt.
 

 
   

Those radios aren't FCC certified. And no, I won't being using an 
experimental license until they are certified like the sales person 
suggested.


-Matt

 




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

It doesn't use the entire band...




Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


NOo

NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is 
always on.  No more WMux fiascos needed.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

24 Ghz. won't do 5-10 miles.

The other option is an Exalt 2.4 Ghz. or 5 Ghz radio.   100 Mb Full 
Duplex (Yes 2.4 Ghz.) for around $15-16K plus antennas


-B-



Matt Liotta wrote:


John Scrivner wrote:


Wow! Business must be good!

That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are 
racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity 
upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth 
is extremely challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can 
destroy the company.


Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only 
way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance 
for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I 
read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There 
is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. 
There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat 
that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go 
through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 
60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency 
space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed 
high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 
100 mbps FDX?


Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the 
ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely 
upgrade existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in 
different ways to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed 
we are forced to have a static configuration.


I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top 
end about 100 mbps FDX?


DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 
200Mbps full duplex.






-Matt




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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

I have a handful of these in NYC and Wash DC.  They kick ass and the 
company backs them 150%. They are my first licensed choice.  Ceragon is 
my second.


-B-



Bob Moldashel wrote:


170 Mb FD Dragonwave...

About $20K





Matt Liotta wrote:


Guys,

We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are 
backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in 
the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but 
the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do 
high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something 
that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the 
Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full 
duplex.


24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.

-Matt








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Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
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Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[Bob Moldashel]

170 Mb FD Dragonwave...

About $20K





Matt Liotta wrote:


Guys,

We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are 
backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in 
the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but 
the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do 
high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something 
that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the 
Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full 
duplex.


24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.

-Matt




--
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Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
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800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
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516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Re: Anyone using Exalt radios????

[Bob Moldashel]

Tom,

You're gonna bond 2 atlas links and get close to 100 Mb full 
duplex?   How is that?? 


The 200 Mb Exalt is 100 Mb TX /100 Mb RX

If you use your  equation you really need 4 Trango radios which is 5 x  
$3000 = $15000 and that will give you 100 mb with 50/50 MIR.  Not to say 
what you would use up in spectrum (20 Mhz. x 5 = 100 Mhz..OK...you 
could play with polarity with good antennas and probably do better).


So the Exalt doesn't look that expensive after all  :-)

And BTW:  I was told to expect MIR control for asymetrical bandwidth soon...

-B-


Tom DeReggi wrote:

The advertised throughput on a 200 Mhz radio is 100 Mb true 
throughput in each direction port to port. The radio throughput is 
based on a 64 Mhz channel.



OK so lets compare to Trango Atlas or Alvarion Backhaul (which has 
similar metrics) with equivellent speed models. Taking that maybe only 
1% of my market could pull off a 64Mhz channel.


Exalt Specs... 200rating @ 64Mhz = 100 mbps then
100rating @ 32Mhz = 50 mbps... @ $16,000 list.
   This of course being best case based on noise 
level and acheivalbe modulation.


Trango Specs 54rating @ 20Mhz = 45 mbps, for $3000.
So, if I bonded two Atlas Links, I'd get equivelent performance to the 
high performance version at 30% less spectrum use, and 1/5 th the cost.
Now of Course Trango, is Ethernet only, and does not have the wayside 
T1 support or Fiber/GPS features. And there is value to that for 
someone offering Voice services also.


All I'm saying is that the street price sure better be a lot lower 
than the list price listed, as you suggeset it is. The second you are 
in the > $15,000 range, you might as well be doing licensed for the 
extra $1000 bucks or two to make it survivable.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: "Lakeland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: Anyone using Exalt radios


Personally I couldn't be happier.  They work as expected and stated. 
They have relatively straight forward GUI interfaces, you can move 
the center of the channel to any 1 Mhz. division, it works on 5.3, 
you can get a straight indoor only unit or an outdoor unit with 
integral antenna or N connectors, they have 2 year warranty. OOB 
replacement guarantee, the inegral antenna has electronic polarity 
control, it can syc all units on a msite so you can use one channel, 
the gps option is very reasonable and you don't need a central 
controller or cabling between radios. User defined latency and 
channel bandwidth as well as free upgrade to 5.4 when it becomes 
available.
The advertised throughput on a 200 Mhz radio is 100 Mb true 
throughput in each direction port to port. The radio throughput is 
based on a 64 Mhz channel.
Now lets address the Motorola Orthogon for a minute. It has no GPS 
syncing. It has no integral fiber interface.  The fiber "kit" is an 
option that allows for cable runs in excess of POE lengths but you 
still need external power.  I can put a media converter and external 
power on a Exalt radio also.
As far as the bandwidth is concerned the Orthogon still uses 60 MHz 
to give full bandwidth.  It just uses 30 on vertical and 30 on 
horizontal.
On a positive note for Exalt the C/I is much better on the Exalt 
radio which ultimately guarantees better distance in noisy environments.
The pricin on the Connectronics site is MSRP.  You can get it quite a 
bit lower...

-B-





John Scrivner writes:


Bob,
Tell us about your experiences with these. Work as advertised? 
Approximate cost per pair?

Thanks,
Scriv Bob Moldashel wrote:

Just looking for experiences Personally I think they rock but 
just looking to see if anyone else has any pros/cons 
www.exaltcom.com 100 Mb FD 2.4 Ghz. radio.   H.   I bet 
Marlon would love to have one of these for a neighbor!  :-) -B-


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Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Anyone using Exalt radios????

[Bob Moldashel]

A few things to consider

The Exalt does the whole 5 Ghz. band, including 5.3 and 5.4

It also allows you to set the center channel on any 1 Mhz. division.

It has GPS syncing so you only need to use one channel for a handful of 
radios at the same site.  (Try doing that with Orthogon)


It is capable of elctronically switching polarities like the Trango 
radios do. (yeah,yeah...something like the Orthogon).


And finally...they are not owned by MOTOROLA!  :-)

FYI...I have installed approx. 11 Orthogon Spectra links.  I have had 
power supply failures 5 times.  I just waited 12 days for a replacement 
power supply after ordering it from the distributor.  The last link we 
ordered was missing part of the mounting bracket.  One of the mounting 
brackets did not have one of the holes tapped.  Not fun when you are 
onsite for an install.


I still like Orthogon.  I just like Exalt better.


-B-
I



Gino A. Villarini wrote:


For that price, I'll buy an orthogon..., 64 mhz channel? wow

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 7:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone using Exalt radios

Paul,

Here is a more detailed price sheet including accessories and extended 
warranties.


http://www.connectronics.com/exalt/

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro


Paul Hendry wrote:

 


Interesting. Any idea what the retail value on the 5GHz kit is?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: 14 November 2006 02:00
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Anyone using Exalt radios

Just looking for experiences

Personally I think they rock but just looking to see if anyone else has 
any pros/cons


www.exaltcom.com

100 Mb FD 2.4 Ghz. radio.   H.   I bet Marlon would love to have 
one of these for a neighbor!  :-)


-B-



   



 




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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Anyone using Exalt radios????

[Bob Moldashel]

One of the things that is really unique is that they have a 2 year 
warranty for a carrier class backhaul product. You don't have to buy the 
second year, just fill out the registration card.  And there is also a 
written "out-of-box failure" policy. None of this stuff about depending 
who you know and how important you are.  ;-)


We have installed a handful of the one piece outdoor 5Ghz  links and 
they were a piece of cake.  Some real thought went into these. Really 
nice stuff...


-B-




Dawn DiPietro wrote:


Paul,

Here is a more detailed price sheet including accessories and extended 
warranties.


http://www.connectronics.com/exalt/

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro


Paul Hendry wrote:


Interesting. Any idea what the retail value on the 5GHz kit is?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: 14 November 2006 02:00
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Anyone using Exalt radios

Just looking for experiences

Personally I think they rock but just looking to see if anyone else 
has any pros/cons


www.exaltcom.com

100 Mb FD 2.4 Ghz. radio.   H.   I bet Marlon would love to 
have one of these for a neighbor!  :-)


-B-

 






--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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[WISPA] Anyone using Exalt radios????

[Bob Moldashel]

Just looking for experiences

Personally I think they rock but just looking to see if anyone else has 
any pros/cons


www.exaltcom.com

100 Mb FD 2.4 Ghz. radio.   H.   I bet Marlon would love to have 
one of these for a neighbor!  :-)


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] OTARD

[Bob Moldashel]

The case involved Continental Airlines providing free Internet access to 
both employees and passengers who were members of their "members club".  
The AP was set up in the lounge area where it was accessible to "paid 
members".


Continental's position was that they were within their own exclusive 
leased space and subsequently could provide such a service and were 
protected under the OTARD determination and ruling.


The airport authority argued that the system could cause interference to 
the airports existing master antenna system which supplied passengers 
with cellular and internet access (for a fee obviously) amongst other 
services. They wanted Continental to pay to put their equipment on the 
master antenna system or use the airport system.  In addition, they 
would pay for "RF Studies" to see if the system could be placed without 
issue (Probably Marlon with his spectrum analyzer!  :-P  ). The airport 
also argued that they had listed in their lease contracts with the 
airline that they could not use radio systems or spectrum not approved 
by the airport authority.


Clearly the Commission must have seen this otherwise..

First, I doubt that anyone in the Commission was happy with the airport 
authority trying to say who could use what spectrum where.  After all, 
that is their exclusive job as allowed by law.  So that didn't go over 
well I'm sure.


Second, Continental proved, without a doubt, that they had exclusive 
rights to use the space they leased.  As such, they are within the OTARD 
guidelines to supply the service.


And finally, the airport authority would need to suffer interference 
before they could complain about Continental's Wi-Fi system.  And we all 
know how quick the Commission jumps on interference issues under Part 
15.   Especially when you are using type accepted equipment.


I think the case settled as expected.

-B-




John Scrivner wrote:

In this particular situation the client (tenant) was owner of both 
ends (base station and CPE) I think. Correct me if I am wrong. I seem 
to remember reading that the airline wanted a private WiFi network for 
themselves. The airport (landlord) was trying to prevent this. In this 
type of a situation I think OTARD would apply regardless of the type 
of equipment used.


In the event of a base station where a third party ISP is the 
beneficiary of use of a base station OTARD right of access would still 
not apply. I welcome feedback, corrections, rebuttals here. Truth is I 
know little about this but think I would like to know more. If anyone 
else has knowledge of this particular case and can add more 
enlightenment it is much appreciated.

Scriv





Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


It was.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Harold Bledsoe" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OTARD


Fascinating.  I had always read OTARD to only cover client devices and
not base station devices.

-Hal
__
Harold Bledsoe
Deliberant LLC
800.742.9865 x205
[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.deliberant.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OTARD

CONTINENTAL AIRLINES, PETITION FOR DECLARATORY RULING REGARDING THE
OVER-THE-AIR RECEPTION DEVICES (OTARD) RULES.   Found that Massport's
restrictions on Continental's use of its Wi-Fi antenna are pre-empted by
the OTARD rules and therefore granted  Continental's  petition. (Dkt No.
05-247). Action by:  the Commission. Adopted:  10/17/2006 by MO&O. (FCC
No. 06-157).  OET
<http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-157A1.doc>
<http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-157A2.doc>
<http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-157A3.doc>
<http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-157A1.pdf>
<http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-157A2.pdf>
<http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-157A3.pdf>
<http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-157A1.txt>
<http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-157A2.txt>
<http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-157A3.txt>




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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] wireless fiber revisited

[Bob Moldashel]

Mario Pommier wrote:

   The fact you say it's a nice radio is encouraging, Tom, for me 
since I'm considering deploying it.
   But it would still be nice to hear from one or two wISP's who can 
say "yeah, I have one installed; it's working fine", or whatever the 
feedback is.

   Anyone???

Mario






OK.Yeah I have installed one and it's working fine...  :-)

ButI have also replaced 2 troublesome links for another VAR and 
replaced them with Bridgewave.


Also...there was an issue with the GUI with Win XP if I remember correctly.

Just FYI.

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Cat5 cable

[Bob Moldashel]

chris cooper wrote:


Im installing some 120’ runs of cat 5 in building shafts. I also need 
to take this through a roof penetration and 20’ across the roof to 
hook up to my radios. I can find exterior cable and riser rated cable, 
but not one that will serve both needs. Anybody have any idea where I 
can find such a beast?


Thanks

Chris



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/404 - Release Date: 7/31/2006
  

Chris,

In most areas it must be plenum if it is in a common shaftway between 
floors without firestops. What you will probably need to do is 
transition from plenum to outdoor where it leaves the building. I'm sure 
that's not what you had in mind but if you are under code it may be your 
cheapest way. Just transition at a 66 block that is CAT5 rated.


Otherwise, the plenum cable directly to the equipment outside will last 
you several years without issue. You could also install it inside pvc 
conduit on sleepers off the roof surface to extend life.


Good Luck,

-B-

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Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
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800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
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516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] fiber connection for bridgewave

[Bob Moldashel]

Mario,

If you get in a jam we have the capabilities

-B-



Mario Pommier wrote:

YOU CAN ALWAYS COUNT ON WISPA!  Thanks.

Mario

John Scrivner wrote:


http://www.panduit.com/

Find your nearest dealer or become a dealer. They train you for free. 
Less than $500 worth of tools and you can terminate fiber forever 
with low-cost easy to use parts. Why pay someone to come and put ends 
on your fiber when you can do it yourself? I figured it out which 
means anyone can.

:-)
Scriv


Brad Belton wrote:

We've always contracted out our fiber work, but be careful as not 
all fiber
techs are equal in their abilities. We've settled on a group that is 
reasonable for small jobs and charges us
$400 for eight connectors total including travel and parts.  They do 
a great

job no matter what type connector or type of fiber used.

We tried a cheaper fiber group once.  After several attempts by two
different techs they told us the fiber we had was bad they couldn't 
shoot
any light through it.  I said thank you very much, "here's your 
sign" and
asked them to leave. Next day the fiber was terminated by our usual 
group.  That was a few years
ago and we haven't felt it necessary to look for another fiber tech 
since.


Best,

Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mario Pommier
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 10:25 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] fiber connection for bridgewave

Has anyone here delved into the option of terminating fiber runs for 
a bridgewave gigabit link?
What's more economical -- to hire out the termination job or getting 
training and buying the terminating equipment onself?
If the latter, where have you gotten the training and equipment?  
(I've heard the equipment is expensive).


Mario


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Broadband Deployment Group
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516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Tsunami MP.11 5054-R Bad Ethernet

[Bob Moldashel]

Proxim will repair it for $335...

-B-





Eric Merkel wrote:

We had a storm go thru yesterday and I have a Tsunami MP.11 5054-R
that is now having a problem. The unit powers up and is accessible
from the wireless on the other side without any issue. Unforutnately
though, the ethernet on the unit will not maintain a link to the
router below. The ethernet link is constantly going up and down every
few seconds but it will pass pings when it is up. The unit itself
stays powered up so I don't think the cable is bad. I replaced the PoE
and remade the CAT5 ends to no avail. I tried a different router as
well as reflashing the 5054-R unit's firmware which didn't help
either.

Does anyone know if these can be repaired or is this unit just toast?

This link has a backup connection so I am not under any pressure to
get it fixed immediately and just wondering what my options are.

-Eric



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Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
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516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] 18Ghz through power lines?

[Bob Moldashel]

Eric Muehleisen wrote:
Getting ready to deploy 18Ghz DragonWave links. However, in the middle 
of my path is a set of 4 power lines (no transformer). Has anyone had 
any experience with this?


Here is my path:
DragonWave master - - - - -1/4 mile / power lines - - - - - 3 miles 
DragonWave slave


-Eric

You should be fine.Done plenty of these with no issues.

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Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
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800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
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Notice to the Board..... Was: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?

[Bob Moldashel]

Sheesh.Here we go again.

WISPA needs a Prescription plan with automatic renewals and 24 hour 
nursing so members will take their medication on time.


Also looks like WISPA needs to fire that new Crystal Ball Reader they 
just hired.  Another attack on the industry just got by us without her 
letting us know.


Sure is a shame one of the members couldn't have brought it to WISPA's 
attention in a more mature, informative way like most members do. After 
all, that is a responsibility of the membership.


It's also a shame that more people don't just step up to the plate and 
help with these issues instead of just attacking the small handful of 
people ( and I mean SMALL) that are doing it. But I guess with all those 
big paychecks the board members are making they should be doing all the 
work!  

Thankfully the Feds send us money personally just so we won't rock the 
boat on issues like these 


-B-

DISCLAIMER:  WISPA does not have a Crystal Ball Reader.  We have a 
Tarrot Card Reader.  She was cheaper and more fun to watch work.  The 
Board Members do not get paid any compensation. They get all their 
personal satisfaction seeing that members such as George really 
appreciate what they are doing for him and his business. And the Fed's 
never sent us (past and present board members) any financial 
compensation. They did say that we could make Alberto Gonzales our legal 
adviser pro bono though..




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Is this legit email from eBay or a phishing scam?

[Bob Moldashel]

I guess its possible that I am mistaken but...


It allowed me to register with an old account that is no longer active.  
If I go directly to the govt. relations page via the E-Bay home page it 
kicks me out when i try to sign in.


I'm not a networking genius but I would not give out my username and 
password to any e-mail message that looks like E-Bay or Paypal anymore.


Also, I have 4 E-Bay accounts and I did not receive this e-mail for any 
of them Thou I did get alot of other interesting sh#t). That is also 
interesting.


GeorgeIf your customer wants to get involved they should go to the 
E-Bay home page and sign in thru govt. relations at the bottom


-B-


Jack Unger wrote:

How did you determine that?


Bob Moldashel wrote:

It's a scam George



George Rogato wrote:


http://www.ebaymainstreet.com/takeaction/?campaign_id=neutrality1

I just got an email from a customer of mine asking me if this was a 
legit email.


At first glance it appears to be a legit email, but I'm not familiar 
with eBay that much and this link: 
http://click3.ebay.com/306460395.64016.0.94684


turns into: 
http://www.ebaymainstreet.com/takeaction/?campaign_id=neutrality1


Here is the email she forwarded to me:

> *From:* Meg Whitman <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:52 AM
> *Subject:* A Letter to 1941cathie from eBay CEO, Meg Whitman
>
>>> *eBay sent this message to xx ( xxx). *
> Your registered name is included to show this message originated from
> eBay. Learn more. <http://click3.ebay.com/306460395.64016.0.61836>
>
>>> *Net Neutrality and the eBay Community: A Call to 
Action*

>
> Dear xxx,
>
> As you know, I almost never reach out to you personally with a 
request
> to get involved in a debate in the U.S. Congress. However, today I 
feel

> I must.
>
> Right now, the telephone and cable companies in control of Internet
> access are trying to use their enormous political muscle to 
dramatically

> change the Internet. It might be hard to believe, but lawmakers in
> Washington are seriously debating whether consumers should be free to
> use the Internet as they want in the future.
>
> The phone and cable companies now control more than 95% of all 
Internet

> access. These large corporations are spending millions of dollars to
> promote legislation that would divide the Internet into a 
two-tiered system.

>
> The top tier would be a "Pay-to-Play" high-speed toll-road 
restricted to

> only the largest companies that can afford to pay high fees for
> preferential access to the Net.
>
> The bottom tier -- the slow lane -- would be what is left for 
everyone
> else. If the fast lane is the information "super-highway," the 
slow lane

> will operate more like a dirt road.
>
> Today's Internet is an incredible open marketplace for goods, 
services,

> information and ideas. We can't give that up. A two lane system will
> restrict innovation because start-ups and small companies -- the
> companies that can't afford the high fees -- will be unable to 
succeed,

> and we'll lose out on the jobs, creativity and inspiration that come
> with them.
>
> The power belongs with Internet users, not the big phone and cable
> companies. Let's use that power to send as many messages as 
possible to

> our elected officials in Washington. Please join me by clicking here
> <http://click3.ebay.com/306460395.64016.0.94684> right now to send a
> message to your representatives in Congress before it is too late. 
You

> can make the difference.
>
> Thank you for reading this note. I hope you'll make your voice 
heard today.

>
> Sincerely,
>
> Meg Whitman
> President and CEO
> eBay Inc.
>
> P.S. If you have any questions about this issue, please contact us at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
>
>
>> Learn More <http://click3.ebay.com/306460395.64016.0.22085> 
to protect

> yourself from Spoof (fake) e-mails.
>
> eBay sent this e-mail to you because your Notification Preferences
> indicate that you want to receive information about Special Events &
> Promotions.
> eBay will not request personal data (password, credit card/bank 
numbers)

> in an e-mail.
> You are subscribed as [EMAIL PROTECTED], registered on eBay.
>
> If you do not wish to receive further communications, sign into "My
> eBay" by clicking on the
> "My eBay" link found at the top of the eBay home page and change your
> Notification Preferences.
> Please note that it may take up to 10 days to process your request.
>
> Visit our Privacy Policy
> <http://cl

Re: [WISPA] Is this legit email from eBay or a phishing scam?

[Bob Moldashel]

It's a scam George



George Rogato wrote:

http://www.ebaymainstreet.com/takeaction/?campaign_id=neutrality1

I just got an email from a customer of mine asking me if this was a 
legit email.


At first glance it appears to be a legit email, but I'm not familiar 
with eBay that much and this link: 
http://click3.ebay.com/306460395.64016.0.94684


turns into: 
http://www.ebaymainstreet.com/takeaction/?campaign_id=neutrality1


Here is the email she forwarded to me:

> *From:* Meg Whitman <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:52 AM
> *Subject:* A Letter to 1941cathie from eBay CEO, Meg Whitman
>
>
>
> *eBay sent this message to xx ( xxx). *

> Your registered name is included to show this message originated from
> eBay. Learn more. <http://click3.ebay.com/306460395.64016.0.61836>
>
>
>
> *Net Neutrality and the eBay Community: A Call to Action*

>
> Dear xxx,
>
> As you know, I almost never reach out to you personally with a request
> to get involved in a debate in the U.S. Congress. However, today I feel
> I must.
>
> Right now, the telephone and cable companies in control of Internet
> access are trying to use their enormous political muscle to 
dramatically

> change the Internet. It might be hard to believe, but lawmakers in
> Washington are seriously debating whether consumers should be free to
> use the Internet as they want in the future.
>
> The phone and cable companies now control more than 95% of all Internet
> access. These large corporations are spending millions of dollars to
> promote legislation that would divide the Internet into a two-tiered 
system.

>
> The top tier would be a "Pay-to-Play" high-speed toll-road 
restricted to

> only the largest companies that can afford to pay high fees for
> preferential access to the Net.
>
> The bottom tier -- the slow lane -- would be what is left for everyone
> else. If the fast lane is the information "super-highway," the slow 
lane

> will operate more like a dirt road.
>
> Today's Internet is an incredible open marketplace for goods, services,
> information and ideas. We can't give that up. A two lane system will
> restrict innovation because start-ups and small companies -- the
> companies that can't afford the high fees -- will be unable to succeed,
> and we'll lose out on the jobs, creativity and inspiration that come
> with them.
>
> The power belongs with Internet users, not the big phone and cable
> companies. Let's use that power to send as many messages as possible to
> our elected officials in Washington. Please join me by clicking here
> <http://click3.ebay.com/306460395.64016.0.94684> right now to send a
> message to your representatives in Congress before it is too late. You
> can make the difference.
>
> Thank you for reading this note. I hope you'll make your voice heard 
today.

>
> Sincerely,
>
> Meg Whitman
> President and CEO
> eBay Inc.
>
> P.S. If you have any questions about this issue, please contact us at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
>
>
>
> Learn More <http://click3.ebay.com/306460395.64016.0.22085> to protect

> yourself from Spoof (fake) e-mails.
>
> eBay sent this e-mail to you because your Notification Preferences
> indicate that you want to receive information about Special Events &
> Promotions.
> eBay will not request personal data (password, credit card/bank 
numbers)

> in an e-mail.
> You are subscribed as [EMAIL PROTECTED], registered on eBay.
>
> If you do not wish to receive further communications, sign into "My
> eBay" by clicking on the
> "My eBay" link found at the top of the eBay home page and change your
> Notification Preferences.
> Please note that it may take up to 10 days to process your request.
>
> Visit our Privacy Policy
> <http://click3.ebay.com/306460395.64016.0.40453> and User Agreement
> <http://click3.ebay.com/306460395.64016.0.40451> if you have any 
questions.

>
> Copyright © 2006 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved.
> Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective
> owners.
> eBay and the eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc.
> eBay is located at 2145 Hamilton Avenue, San Jose, CA 95125.
>

Thanks



--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] 4ft 5.8Ghz dual polarized grid

[Bob Moldashel]

Matt Liotta wrote:

I am looking for grids!!!

-Matt

Bob Moldashel wrote:


Tessco, Hutton, Winncom, Alliance, Talley,..

Radiowave, Gabriel, RFS and Andrews all make 4' dual polarity dishes.




They don't make grids!

:-P

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] 4ft 5.8Ghz dual polarized grid

[Bob Moldashel]

Matt Liotta wrote:

Those are dishes; not grids.

-Matt

No one makes 4' dual polarity grids that I have ever seen.

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] 4ft 5.8Ghz dual polarized grid

[Bob Moldashel]

Tessco, Hutton, Winncom, Alliance, Talley,..

Radiowave, Gabriel, RFS and Andrews all make 4' dual polarity dishes.

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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[WISPA] [Fwd: [Tower-pro] Tower Climber dies in PA]

[Bob Moldashel]

I thought this was important enough to cross-post it accross the above 
addresses This is from the Tower-Pro list


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--- Begin Message ---
Group,
A tower climber for Sting Communications, Michael Sellers, 25, of 
Lebanon PA, died yesterday after falling from a tower approximately 
90'.  The link to the article in the local newspaper can be found here:

http://www.altoonamirror.com/articles.asp?articleID=1366

The link to a tv report with a picture of the tower is here:

http://www.wjactv.com/news/9168284/detail.html

Sting communications is a wireless internet company that primarily 
provides point to point links using Alvarion equipment. 

Apparently someone at the scene gave a statement that their were no 
places to tie off on the tower until the climber was positioned where 
he was going to be working.  The tower is a Rohn SSV tower.  Obviously 
we have the means in this industry to stay 100% on a Rohn tower.  I 
have run into Sting's 2 man tower crews several times in Central PA.  
The first time I was at the top of a tower owned by the company I was 
employed by swapping out an antenna.  Two climbers from Sting came up 
to install an Alvarion radio and panel.  They free climbed up the 
tower (which had a safety cable installed) in tennis shoes without 
hardhats.  They were wearing full body harnesses with a single leg 
lanyard on the dorsal attatchment point, but the lanyard was being 
used to carry the radio and panel antenna.  They had no positioning 
lanyards, only a couple of large carabiners they would attatch to one 
of their side D rings or the other, never both at the same time.  I 
Couldn't believe what I saw.  After getting them back to the ground I 
questioned them about safety equipment, and their training.  I quickly 
learned that these guys had never been properly trained in safe 
climbing techniques or OSHA regulations.  They had never even really 
worked around other tower crews, I was the first experienced tower 
tech they had even spoken with.  (this was about 2 years ago)  I gave 
them a rundown on OSHA regs, showed them the equipment I used (SALA 
EXOFIT XP Double Leg Lanyard, Positioning Lanyards, Cable Grabs, etc.) 
I also gave them a Midwest Unlimited catalog and circled all of 
the "must have" safety equipment, then gave them ComTrain's web 
address.  My GM then called their supervisor and explained our 
policies, general tower climbing policies, and that they would not be 
allowed to work on the company's towers unless they complied.  
  
I know of two falls from towers in the past two weeks.  One happened 
at 220' when an experienced well-trained climber slipped off a peg as 
he was repositioning. He works for an extremely large tower company 
where safety is truly part of the culture.  He fell into his fall 
arrest and went home that night with no injuries.

I think you can draw your own conclusions to what happened yesterday.

My condolences to  Mr. Seller's family and loved ones.

Chris Mika
President,
Novotech Construction, Inc.
Mobile (814)935-5401
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





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--- End Message ---
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[WISPA] Sad News......The Passing of Joe D'Andrea of West 21

[Bob Moldashel]

I just heard about this on the Part 15 list.

I am sure many here knew Joe D'Andrea of West 21 out of Asbury Park, NJ. 
He was definately one of the early starters in this industry.  I was 
lucky enough to know him, having built out his primary AP site and 
dealing with the FCC when they came knocking on his door a short time 
later. Joe was a great guy and I know I will miss him


More info here:   
http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060502/NEWS01/605020367/1004


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes

[Bob Moldashel]

3500 registered users using a network that costs $400K per year to 
maintain!!!  That's $114 per subscriber!  Why not just pay to give them 
DSL!   LOL


--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Members List

[Bob Moldashel]

Cliff Leboeuf wrote:


I think I remember you! I was in the Marine Corps! (haha)!

 







OK  That was inappropriate... I believe an appology is in order 
there Cliff.


BTW:  I will put my money on Victoria anyday...

Hi V!


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Crimp or solder?

[Bob Moldashel]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


We've always terminated LMR 195/400/600 with solder on tips in the past. Its a
real pain in the arse to do in many environments.  Can anyone relate experiences
with the crimp on tips?  IS there any loss of reliability etc.?

Thanks,
Chris



 


Chris,

We have used times EZ connectors with the captive center pins for years 
and have never had a connector not sweep to specs.  Forget the soldering 
and go with the EZ's


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Re: wisp-router (THREAD CLOSED)

[Bob Moldashel]

My Opinion

FYIThis is not appropriate list traffic. This post does absolutely 
nothing for the promotion of WISPA.


-B-





Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


My opinion.
FYI   For those of you who remember this..
I am still fighting them.  They disputed my dispute.  LOL  Who do they 
think they are to take my money and not send the product?  Anyway, I 
will not give up on this.  They will learn it's not ok to steal.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Anyone ever have trouble with them.  FYI  They just informed me it is 
my fault they didn't ship me out what I paid for.
I've never done anything with Mikrotik.  I ordered what a friend told 
me to, I don't know what anything looks like,
I assumed when I looked in the box it was all there.  Well, I have 
Butch lined up an am ready to use it and...imagine that,
I'm missing parts.  Maybe I didn't call within the first 7 days.  Who 
gives a fart!  Be warned.  I just got screwed.
Credit card dispute to the rescue again.   Ahh, this just pisses me 
off.  I should get what I paid for. I don't lie.  I know I didn't get 
the part.  Speaking of not getting it.  Don't these people know the 
customer (ME) is always right? I can't get away with this crap with 
my subs, that's for sure.
Just so ya'll know, when I first called, the guy I talked to said it 
looked like it might not have been shipped.  They would look into is 
and call me back.
I was happy and thinking how I would post to the list and say how 
fast they helped me and solved my problem.  Nope.  Not today.  I

was promptly called back and blamed for their poor quality control.


Also, where can I order a RB564 Daughterboard to replace the one the 
"ups guy must have stole"?  Not wisp-router.  Need it overnight.







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Re: [WISPA] Applying for Licensed Spectrum

[Bob Moldashel]

Eric Muehleisen wrote:

How does one go about getting a license for deploying PTP backhaul 
links in the 11ghz to 18ghz band?


-Eric


Eric,

Call Bobby Walton at MicroNet.  They do frequency coordination and the 
license applications for what you are looking for.  Tell him I sent ya..


Bobby Walton
Systems Engineer
Micronet Communications, Inc.
720 F Ave., Suite 100
Plano, TX  75074
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ph:  (972) 422-7200
fax: (972) 422-1900

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] 5.4 very close now

[Bob Moldashel]

Sorry to bust your bubble but that was EU only

-B-



Rick Harnish wrote:


Mac,

As far as I know, the hardware/software has to be contention based to be
allowed to use the spectrum.  I would doubt if many consumer devices will be
allowed to operate in this spectrum.

I can tell you that Orthogon has already released the firmware upgrade for
the Gemini product to be used for the 5.4 Spectrum.
http://www.orthogonsystems.com/support/software.html

I just sent an email to them about the release date for the Spectra upgrade.


Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482 Office
260-307-4000 Cell
260-918-4340 VoIP
www.oibw.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 



 




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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[WISPA] I know you guys will appreciate this...

[Bob Moldashel]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1514168659738935009


:-)


Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo

[Bob Moldashel]

Ssshsss..   Be quiet. 

If you guys keep bragging about these there will be no stock when I 
place my next order


:-)

It takes alot to make me happy but the Tranzeos are doing a good job...

-B-


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


I am getting 20mbps with these, I also noticed that that will still
function at -91 at 6mbps and not drop packets.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo

I personally have 2 links made with the TR5a-24 radios from Tranzeo. One

of them has been in place about 2 months and I must say that they havent

burped, hick-up'd or farted even once! I am thus far extremely impressed

and very satisified - to say the least. The fiorst link shows a 54Mbps 
link at -71 and is a 4 mile CLOS shot and the other is a 8 mile shot 
CLOS -83 showing a 36Mbps link. Am I smiling? Yess :-)


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600 
318.303.4227

318.303.4229







chris cooper wrote:

 

Can anyone share experiences with the Tranzeo 5824F series?  Looking 
for a BH solution that supports QoS and is upwards of 50 Mb and 
reliable. Ive looked at this, Ceragon and Waverider.  Any insights are
   



 


much appreciated.



Chris Cooper

Intelliwave

   




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st

[Bob Moldashel]

John J. Thomas wrote:


There has been so much talk about this, I might be inclined to help the FCC find those 
WISPs that are snubbing their noses at the law. This is a professional list and those 
here should be abiding by the law. I wonder if it would be a good thing to "kick 
out" those that promote illegal activities?

Whether you like it or not, WISPs will eventually be taxed- I guarantee the 
ILECs will see to that. If the FCC wants you, they will eventually find you.

John Thomas


 


Dude,

No one likes a snitch...

Your energy would be better spent working on your website...Don't cha' 
think


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] commscope 3227 coax

[Bob Moldashel]

Mario Pommier wrote:


has anyone used Comm-scope Cable 3227 LMR400-type coax?
it is reliable?
Thanks.

Mario



We have used this with Times connectors without any issues...

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Bob Moldashel]

Roger Boggs wrote:


Ooops!!!  How could I forget this one...

Must make all amateur radio operations illegal and lock them all up and
confiscate all their equipment!!!

Either that or start suing all the ham radio operators for the suspected
damage they've done to us all, too



Don't get me started Boggs!   :-)

What Up Rog' ?  Welcome back.  Ya didn't miss anything..

Hope all is well.

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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