Kardtoon;262602 Wrote:
I have a music library that's primarily in English and maybe 25% songs
in Mandrain, cantonese and Japanese.
I'm seriously thinking about commiting to a Transporter or at least a
SB. the above question weights heavily in my mind.
will I be able to see the non
harmonic;264242 Wrote:
I atended a klimax demo yestoday and alot of the questians asked here
was answerd.
[...]
The system was unfamiliare to me so its hard to describe have it really
sounded.
But the sound had that special kvality the sondek lp12 SE with the
current full specs
Does anybody know how to search using special characters, Mandarin? (Or
the norwegian: æøå, or Spanish: ñ ) from the slim remote?
Regards
-Harald
--
haraldo
haraldo's Profile:
Kardtoon;262602 Wrote:
Will I be able to see the non english files in my music library?
As others have mentioned, Slimserver will display the tags, no problem.
There have been problems in the past if your file names contain
non-unicode characters - Slimserver doesn't always import them, but
haraldo;26 Wrote:
I reckon it's difficult to discuss such speakers without bringing the
power amplifiers into the loop. Does anybody know which amps the famous
UK studios are using?
I have read that some studios are using very expensive Chord Poweramps,
while I have also heard about
Phil Leigh;264361 Wrote:
I'm not disagreeing - commercially, you have to eat your own dogfood...
But my point really was that if you can create well-balanced masters
then the speakers are fundamentally OK.
The sound on these CD's is not just to do with compression (they use
plenty,
Andrew B.;264589 Wrote:
You apparently fail to understand that the two greatest influences on a
hifi system with a competent digital source that costs anything more
than a few hundred pounds are: (1) the speakers and (2) the room.
It's pointless to make a comparison like this unless those
harmonic;264602 Wrote:
My source is still the sb3 with a linare ps.
I thought you had a Maui-modded Transporter
Andrew B. Wrote:
THIS is why my speakers cost 6 times as much as my digital source
(Squeezebox and Benchmark DAC1).
This is not the rule. Do you think that those who bought
alekz;264618 Wrote:
I thought you had a Maui-modded Transporter
This is not the rule. Do you think that those who bought a Transporter
must have $12K speakers? What about my Martin Logan Ascents? Do they
not qualify?
Even ML Prodigies cost $6K!
This brings us back to the same old
Did you try restarting the server / service?
Yes...tried that. Thanks.
--
joeriz
Transporter DIYtube ST-35 amp JM Reynaud Arpeggione Signature
speakers
joeriz's Profile:
opaqueice;264683 Wrote:
On the contrary - it's already perfect!
The decor might be a bit on the minimalist side, though.
Yes - but no :o)
It wasn't mixed to sound good in a field (or anechoic chamber)!
Low WAF I'd say...
Also as anyone who's ever staged an outdoor event knows...you need an
alekz;264618 Wrote:
IMHO, crap in - crap out.
True, but even a $15 CD player doesn't produce garbage. In fact
personally I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if no one could
distinguish it from the Klimax DS, blind - or if they could, if 50% of
the listeners thought it sounded better.
gsawdy;263992 Wrote:
Ths SBC may not tell the device what to do, but doesn't it require the
device to receive the RF signal and transmit it to SqueezeCenter?
Given that I've used the SBC with an SB2 and a Transporter that do not
have this rudimentary AP behavior, no.
The SBC does communicate
snarlydwarf;264009 Wrote:
The SBC should be faster than the Nokia or PSP... since it isnt using
HTML, but talking directly to the server.
The SBC is _much_ faster than anything using the web UI (which includes
PSP, iphone, nokia, etc). I also find it faster and easier to use than
the IR
don't connect to server
just connect thru the player to the network
do a long press on the brightness button on the remote
if your player is conncted to the internet/slim network (not local
server) then regardless of the version of the slim server
the player will update its firmware
mine has
Phil Leigh;264667 Wrote:
I certainly don't believe that a Klimax DS into a small amp and
speakers will sound anywhere near as good as an SB3 driving some
serious amps/speakers.
Probably you are right. But good transparent amp/speakers will reveal
all the shortcomings of the source.
harmonic;264602 Wrote:
My room is well treated and have no standig waves.
You live in an open field?
--
opaqueice
opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234
View this thread:
opaqueice;264677 Wrote:
You live in an open field?
That's going to make room correction a bit of a challenge :o)
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann
JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with
Yes - but no :o)
It wasn't mixed to sound good in a field (or anechoic chamber)!
Low WAF I'd say...
In simple terms, how to mixing engineers take into account the
listener's possible room response? Do they turn down the low bass, for
example?
Phil Leigh;264696 Wrote:
Also as anyone
Mark Lanctot;264662 Wrote:
It's almost as fast as the IR remote and faster than the web UI.
It feel faster than the IR remote to me, but maybe that just 'cos it
clicks.
MC
--
ModelCitizen
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
Transporter Bryston 4B ST PMC OB1s
SB3
Its actually a good learning lesson if you try putting your systems
out in the open a sunny day and here what it can do.
Never did it with my current system but tryed it 6 years ago with a
more modest system when we where having a garden partyand it
sounded spectacular.
That would
harmonic;264630 Wrote:
I sold it not that i diddent like it but personaly prefere linn
sources.
Regading speakers this is one area where higer cost dont alwasy equal
better sound.
As stated above to my ears the SF Cremona was a more complete speaker
then both the 26 k amatiand
slimpy;264716 Wrote:
81 is the current production firmware for the squeezebox.
Joe wants to update his transporter to the latest beta firmware.
Connecting to squeezenetwork will only allow him to reload the current
production firmware 31, which he already has installed.
@Joe
The latest
Thanks. Interestingly, I tried that as well. It looked like it worked
fine but my firmware still says 31.
Also, wouldn't the problem with that be that it would in essence be
'going around' what I did on my hard drive (i.e. placing the version 33
firmware in the proper directory, etc. as
the firmware is burned to the player itself
it is independent of the slim server
though a newer version of the server will force the player
to upgrade the firmware
--
spooky
spooky's Profile:
My opinion is that as long as a signal is digital or electrical a
component doesn't have to achieve anything other than passing the
signal along without distorting it.
Soundstage, microdynamics, detail, bass extension, danceability,
chocolateyness etc are all human descriptions. If the component
As I saw in the SVN Trunk, FW40 has a new feature allowing for a DSP
loopback.
I I know what this means, but I want to ask to be sure, before I go
running off and by myself some DSP only to find out later that it
doesn't work as I thought it would.
FW40 will allow the following setup?
PC -
spooky;264702 Wrote:
don't connect to server
just connect thru the player to the squeeze network
do a long press on the brightness button on the remote
if your player is conncted to the internet/squeeze network (not local
server) then regardless of the version of the slim server
the player
opaqueice wrote:
Yes - but no :o)
It wasn't mixed to sound good in a field (or anechoic chamber)!
Low WAF I'd say...
In simple terms, how to mixing engineers take into account the
listener's possible room response? Do they turn down the low bass, for
example?
They don't particularly.
gharris999;264020 Wrote:
That's exactly how I'm selecting my music these days with the web
interface. It would be REAL nice to see that implemented in the jive
ui.
Mr Harris. Please would you sign up for the bug?
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6657
MC
--
ModelCitizen
darrenyeats wrote:
My opinion is that as long as a signal is digital or electrical a
component doesn't have to achieve anything other than passing the
signal along without distorting it.
[snip]
For me binding posts and sources are the same in that I expect them to
have a minimal distorting
thomsens;220410 Wrote:
Without better integration, songscanner certainly isn't a fix - it's a
workaround at best. If it could be tied to the FF button then maybe
you are getting cloer.
Check out this thread... KDF explains how to map Songscanner to the
FFWD and RW remote buttons, as well as
darrenyeats;264715 Wrote:
My opinion is that as long as a signal is digital or electrical a
component doesn't have to achieve anything other than passing the
signal along without distorting it.
Soundstage, microdynamics, detail, bass extension, danceability,
chocolateyness etc are all
Caad;263879 Wrote:
To CardinalFang..
Thanks .. A clean up of the flux will be done..;-)
To SeanAdams:
Actually.. Replacing the caps to Black gate was an improvment, But the
Big improvment was to seperate the opamp output and especially the gnd
between the opamp and the RCA connectors
Transporter - XLR Attenuators (-20db) - Electrocompaniet AW100 DMB -
Dynaudio Audience 122
The combo Transporter, AW100 DMB, Audience 122 really sounds like
something :-D
Not an insane pricetag, each product really shine for themselves, but
how does all of this work together?
With DSP, this
Optimizing signal paths is a fine idea in principle, but it's usually
not good to string components up in the air like that... there is quite
a risk of them becoming antennas, and as far as decoupling caps are
concerned, they become quite ineffective as you move them further from
the pins they're
Robin Bowes;264736 Wrote:
darrenyeats wrote:
My opinion is that as long as a signal is digital or electrical a
component doesn't have to achieve anything other than passing the
signal along without distorting it.
[snip]
For me binding posts and sources are the same in that I expect
Heimiko wrote:
As I saw in the SVN Trunk, FW40 has a new feature allowing for a DSP
loopback.
I I know what this means, but I want to ask to be sure, before I go
running off and by myself some DSP only to find out later that it
doesn't work as I thought it would.
FW40 will allow the
Robin Bowes;264739 Wrote:
Heimiko wrote:[color=blue]
That's exactly what it means.
Great!! I've been wanting automatic room correction for ages, but
didn't want an additional AD-DA convertor in between.
now, for my last question, about the volume control, can anyone fill
this one in?
--
Robin Bowes;264739 Wrote:
Heimiko wrote:
As I saw in the SVN Trunk, FW40 has a new feature allowing for a DSP
loopback.
I I know what this means, but I want to ask to be sure, before I go
running off and by myself some DSP only to find out later that it
doesn't work as I thought it
Yes, this is the digital loop feature. It is in firmware 40 which is now
in the nightly trunk builds.
Give it a try. I have only tested with Tact XP and with a loopback
cable. Would be interested to hear how it works with something like a
Behringer EQ.
Note there is a setting in SlimServer
The DAC makes the sound you hear (putting it simply - before the DAC its
just number crunching/computing ). So, an external DAC makes a very
direct and audible difference to the sound you actually hear. There is
NO point in looking at this from an academic standpoint. Just try it
and listen...
Awesome, it sounds like a lot of work went into these changes. Glad a
lot of those bugs have been fixed even if they havn't caused me any
issues.
--
SuperQ
SuperQ's Profile:
As of 2008-02-01 there is new Transporter firmware included in the
Squeezecenter nightly builds. If you want to give it a try, make sure
to get the trunk (development build) and _not_ the 7.0 (stable
branch).
http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/
After installing, your Transporter
Thanks.
I would sure love to see 7.0 get released.
--
Shredder
Shredder's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11380
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42960
Please prove me wrong.
I can't see from the spec's of the transporter that there's a digital
loop... It would be nice, but it's not clear to me
-Harald N
--
haraldo
Suse Linux - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark
Kestrel2
It's not in the specs, if you read the first post in this thread you'll
see it's a new feature being tested in the latest firmware build.
--
radish
radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77
View
Shredder;264756 Wrote:
Thanks.
I would sure love to see 7.0 get released.
Why don't you just use it anyway? - I've been using it for months and
it's great!
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call
I know this has been discussed many times, but I am specifically
interested in the reasons why using an external DAC with an SB3 might
yield an advantage.
I'm not really interested in what different people might hear. I
respect those thoughts, but I'm looking to investigate a different set
of
Right, I got that part...
I appreciate your contribution, but I really think there is more to the
issue.
--
roll - gybe
roll - gybe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8975
View this thread:
Sorry... I'm new here, don't know what the SVN Trunk is...
Another argument to buy transporter :-))
(like I needed that)
-Harald
--
haraldo
Suse Linux - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark
Kestrel2
joeriz;264774 Wrote:
Question: The above quote doesn't by any chance mean that things like
Inguz settings (e.g. increasing treble) will take effect immediately,
does it? I'm guessing that's not what you mean by 'effects loop'...
No, that takes place totally outside the firmware, and
- Word clock and effects loop settings take effect immediately - no
need
to reconnect or restart the track.
Wow...cool. I think I may just have to move to 7.0 and stop dinking
about with the firmware for TP.
Question: The above quote doesn't by any chance mean that things like
Inguz settings
There's a whole range of benefits of using an external DAC with SB3.
Noise cancellation?
I'm using Benchmark DAC1 with the SB3, and I'm realizing that the
optical connector works a lot better than the coax, why? Haven't got a
clue, but I have heard John Atkinson stating that it may have
Phil Leigh;264791 Wrote:
Could you expand further?
Just somebody who actually compared 2 squeesboxes one modded and one
stock head to head.
I beleive the bolder squeesbox was rewarded the anaual year award by
the same magasin.
--
harmonic
haraldo;264773 Wrote:
Sorry... I'm new here, don't know what the SVN Trunk is...
Another argument to buy transporter :-))
(like I needed that)
-Harald
E.g:
http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/SqueezeCenter_trunk_v2008-02-01/
--
alekz
Or you could skip the DAC completely
This is actually what Lyngdorf does with their TDAI 2200 amplifier,
where the power/output stage is a PCM to PWM converter, basically the
signal never enters the analog domain.
Is it better or not?
I don't know, it's another perspective
Like Phil said, I
Congratulations ezkcdude!
Yes, I must say, I've never been so involved in a company whose
products I own as Slim Devices, and I'm pleased that the feeling stayed
the same with Logitech. I compare it to my other tech products and the
feeling is just not there. Linksys/Cisco? Toshiba? Marantz?
haraldo;264782 Wrote:
There's a whole range of benefits of using an external DAC with SB3.
Noise cancellation?
I'm using Benchmark DAC1 with the SB3, and I'm realizing that the
optical connector works a lot better than the coax, why?
Fair enough. This isn't a benefit of course, just a
Phil Leigh;264741 Wrote:
but when was the last time you (we) heard a truly poor digital source.
For me it was probably pre-1990.
To be clear, I think the SB is a good digital source and can go
head-to-head with v expensive competitors. .
Truly poor vs truly good can be both objective and
Yezzz.
--
haraldo
Suse Linux - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark
Kestrel2
haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472
View this thread:
haraldo;264790 Wrote:
That's fine as long as you didn't rob the bank... :-))
No...actually now I work for it! :o)
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann
JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with
That's fine as long as you didn't rob the bank... :-))
--
haraldo
Suse Linux - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark
Kestrel2
haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472
View
Looks like somone have a different oppinion
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0206/midmonth/bolder_modified_slimdevices_squeezebox.htm
--
harmonic
harmonic's Profile:
haraldo;264773 Wrote:
Sorry... I'm new here, don't know what the SVN Trunk is...
SVN == subversion, a tool which we use to manage our source code.
Trunk == the version of the software which is in active development
7.0 == the version of the software which is very close to being
released. It
harmonic;264788 Wrote:
Looks like somone have a different oppinion
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0206/midmonth/bolder_modified_slimdevices_squeezebox.htm
Could you expand further?
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't
Phil Leigh;264786 Wrote:
Oh - and by the way...there are NO FACTS.
Yes I agree, there are no facts, but it's great fun to get something
affordable work really great and with all the affordable digital
products out there, there's a bunch of things you may try out
without breaking the
Oh - and by the way...there are NO FACTS.
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann
JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC
V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)-
good thoughts. i think some of you guys catch my drift.
By way of background, I have 3 systems with decent mid-fi speakers
running flac and homeplugs.
One system has a killer amp in case I ever upgrade. SB3 linear psu -
Musical Fidelity a5 - Swan 6.1 (recently demoed Thiel 3.6s and didn't
roll - gybe;264771 Wrote:
Right, I got that part...
I appreciate your contribution, but I really think there is more to the
issue.
Erm - like what exactly?
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics
Mark Lanctot;264804 Wrote:
But with this company, it's different. The CEO and directors answer
questions very frequently, and are honest about their products. And
concerns about the product DO get addressed, despite some comments on
the forum - when was the last time you were able to
Generally, I oppose to coloring the system with components... If there
is a flaw that colors the sound this should be fixed where the problem
is rather than trying to compensate by using a component that colors
the other way around.
This is very difficult land indeed. I guess if there is a
haraldo;264799 Wrote:
This is actually what Lyngdorf does with their TDAI 2200 amplifier,
where the power/output stage is a PCM to PWM converter, basically the
signal never enters the analog domain.
Thats still a DAC, it's just that the DAC _is_ the amplifier.
--
seanadams
seanadams;264822 Wrote:
Thats still a DAC, it's just that the DAC _is_ the amplifier.
Yeah, of course it is, just the marketing guys at Lyngdorf claim
otherwise :-)
--
haraldo
Suse Linux - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark
Kestrel2
Thanks Sean..
--
haraldo
Suse Linux - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark
Kestrel2
haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472
View this thread:
@Sean - Can you shed some light on:
digital volume control, before or after loopback?
DSP loopback usable with other digital sources?
thanks! i hope some of you might have a behringer deq laying around to
test this with, as its a strong contender for a place in my rack ;-)
--
Heimiko
joeriz;264831 Wrote:
Whoa! Just to be sure...did I read correctly above that this dig loop
would allow something like the Behringer to be used in the loop while
allowing the TP to still do D/A conversion??
Indeed, that's the main reason for having it.
--
radish
bopyanker;264828 Wrote:
Would there be any sonic advantages sending the SB's optical into a
minidisc and then on to my preamp? For this is the only device I own
that has a digital input.
No, definitely not
I wouldn't do that, I am 99.9% sure the DAC in the SB3 is way
better than
You guys at Slimdevices are the best
Talk about providing choices to the consumers...
I can't ever remember to have seen a product ever that provides a
combination of the flexibility and performance of the transporter at
any price - when the digital loop works :-))
-H
--
haraldo
Version 36! Who knew?
Any release notes? Still no confirmation of 88.2Khz handling...
--
amcluesent
amcluesent's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10286
View this thread:
Would there be any sonic advantages sending the SB's optical into a
minidisc and then on to my preamp? For this is the only device I own
that has a digital input.
--
bopyanker
bopyanker's Profile:
Unfortunately the 96kHz WAV problem is not fixed (
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42427 ) Will log a bug.
BTW, is there a simple way to check the CPU load?
--
alekz
alekz's Profile:
Whoa! Just to be sure...did I read above that this dig loop would allow
something like the Behringer to be used in the loop while allowing the
TP to still do D/A conversion??
Very cool!
Joe
--
joeriz
Transporter DIYtube ST-35 amp JM Reynaud Arpeggione Signature
speakers
haraldo;264834 Wrote:
No, definitely not
I wouldn't do that, I am 99.9% sure the DAC in the SB3 is way
better than anything comparable in a minidisc or any other comparable
system.
You could possibly improve by adding a quality DAC, but then we are
talking about a different animal
FW40 seems to be fine with slimserver 6.5.4 too; Must resist going to
Linn Records web-site for more Studio Masters :)
--
amcluesent
amcluesent's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10286
View this
Heimiko;264842 Wrote:
Also, unfortunately, the power spikes when selecting a digital input,
seems much worse (and quicker to reproduce) then in FW36.
However, when this happens, switching to playing normal music from the
server (normal squeezebox usuage as it were) is not a problem.
And
bopyanker;264841 Wrote:
Thanks for the warning. I thought I better check before doing so.
I guess the DAC1 is my least expensive upgrade.
The least expensive option is usually the one that gets you to where
you need to be, to not need to spend any more money to enjoy you music.
This is not
bopyanker;264841 Wrote:
Thanks for the warning. I thought I better check before doing so.
I guess the DAC1 is my least expensive upgrade.
I have some more advice and this is IMPORTANT
Trust yourself and your own ears and don't give a crap about what
reviewers or others think.
If you think
We should all take FW40 now!
--
amcluesent
amcluesent's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10286
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42882
harmonic;264806 Wrote:
I beleive that the most important is the speaker/amp relation.
If there is a synagi even a dvd player will make it sing, but you will
also be abel to get much more out of a better source.
Bottom line is if the speaker/amp relation issent perfect a better
Also, unfortunately, the power spikes when selecting a digital input,
seems much worse (and quicker to reproduce) then in FW36.
However, when this happens, switching to playing normal music from the
server (normal squeezebox usuage as it were) is not a problem.
And additional problem now, when
Heimiko;264827 Wrote:
@Sean - Can you shed some light on:
digital volume control, before or after loopback?
Before. It should probably be put after though - we could do it in the
DAC chip, like we do when Transporter is being used as a DAC.
DSP loopback usable with other digital
Phil. I need the 7.0 release because I am using a Thecus NAS and there
is no install module for the beta. I assume the formal release will
lead to the module. Oh well.
--
Shredder
Shredder's Profile:
Sean
isn't it so that with a digital volume control at very low volumes that
you're decreasing the resolution.
Say you have 24 bit resolution and you're decreasing the volume by
50dB, then most of the bits will be zeros, don't you then decrease the
digital resolution by utilizing a digital
Phil Leigh wrote:
Which model BK's? - you can get them calibrated but it will cost...
Oh, I know. I'm actually a qualified acoustician and know all about the
cost of calibrating professional microphones!
R,
___
audiophiles mailing list
You guys at Slimdevices are the best
Talk about providing choices to the consumers...
I can't ever remember to have seen a product ever that provides a
combination of the flexibility and performance of the transporter at
any price
Interesting that you mention the Zanden test in Stereophile, any $100 CD
player measures way way better than the Zanden, but the Zanden sounds
well doesn't it? or is it only within Stereophile boundaries that it
sounds well?
I don't know hat's wrong or wright, but I definitely wouldn't trust any
seanadams;264851 Wrote:
Are you hearing a burst of noise, a click, a thump, or something else?
It's not like white noise, its more like a series of heavy thumbs,
_really_ bad for the speakers.
seanadams;264851 Wrote:
That is surprising. Are you sure it actually upgraded to FW40?
Yep,
thanks for this update!
kudos to Slim Devices/Logitech for your ongoing support and upgrades -
you have to look hard to find such companies, especially in this fast
developing multimedia market where most products are old and
unsupported after a few months and replaced by new ones.
keep up the
haraldo;264875 Wrote:
Interesting that you mention the Zanden test in Stereophile, any $100 CD
player measures way way better than the Zanden, but the Zanden sounds
well doesn't it? or is it only within Stereophile boundaries that it
sounds well?
I don't know hat's wrong or wright, but I
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