PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Todd wrote:
How hard would it be to come up with a situation in which US Federal Law
says (not) do A and the law of country X says (not) to do B
So in other words, to hell with morality and ethics. Might makes right.
I had thought we had progressed beyond that sort of school-yard bullying
type logic a long time ago. Nice to know that neanderthal thinking still
exists in the world.
Its a real pity.
larry
--
Larry C. Lyons
Bill Wheatley wrote:
Theres something called preventive detention for if you THINK someone is
going to commit a crime
And naturally there are rules for that. Rules that say how long you can
be detained, after how long you have to be formally charged, by whom to
complain if you disagree.
: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Bill Wheatley wrote:
Theres something called preventive detention for if you THINK someone is
going to commit a crime
And naturally there are rules for that. Rules that say how long you can
be detained, after how long you have to be formally
1. They are not citizens of the United States therefore they have no
rights under US law.
Yay! You are not American! We can shoot you, steal from you, anything!
You have no rights. Or maybe you meant we can violate basic human rights
because they are not American? Or maybe legal rights, so
Timothy Heald wrote:
1. They are not citizens of the United States therefore they have no rights
under US law.
The Bill of Rights does not make the distinction between citizens and
non-citizens.
2. They are not prisoners of war as there was no declared war at the time of
hostilities, or
The Bill of Rights does not make the distinction between citizens and
non-citizens.
The Bill of rights is just the First 10 Amendments to the Constitution.
The Constitution does make a distinction between citizens.
Amendment 14 is pretty clear:
All persons born or naturalized in the United
: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Timothy Heald wrote:
1. They are not citizens of the United States therefore they have no
rights
under US law.
The Bill of Rights does not make the distinction between citizens and
non-citizens
technology solutions for educators
-Original Message-
From: Smith, Matthew P -CONT(DYN) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 3:04 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
1. They are not citizens of the United States therefore
) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 3:04 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
1. They are not citizens of the United States therefore they have no
rights under US law.
Yay! You are not American! We can shoot you, steal from you
: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 12:03 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Thank you, Timothy! You've said a lot of things far better than I could.
Now you know where I stand politically on this. I wish they had
Jerry Johnson wrote:
Actually, both of the examples you gave would not be punishable, since they do not
violate federal law.
I seems to me that federal law (for the most part - it is changing a bit even as we
speak) has been reserved for classes of crimes that:
1. are/should be recognized
Todd wrote:
How hard would it be to come up with a situation in which US Federal Law
says (not) do A and the law of country X says (not) to do B?
I'm not sure what you mean?
Let's see if we can get an example. Does the Federal Law have any
article that basically says that if you have a
Again, not (at the moment) a federal crime.
But I think the real question you want to ask is: What gives the US the right to
impose its values on others?
Because we can.
Its really that simple.
Jerry Johnson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/17/02 04:34PM
Jerry Johnson wrote:
Actually, both of the
Jerry Johnson wrote:
Again, not (at the moment) a federal crime.
But I think the real question you want to ask is: What gives the US the right to
impose its values on others?
Because we can.
Its really that simple.
I think Bin Laden is also doing a very good job at imposing his values
-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 5:53 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Jerry Johnson wrote:
Again, not (at the moment) a federal crime.
But I think the real question you
Todd wrote:
Let's see if we can get an example. Does the Federal Law have any
article that basically says that if you have a chance of stopping
somebody from breaking the law you should?
I don't know .. that one is tricky. I'm sure law enforcement officials
don't expect you to put yourself
Timothy Heald wrote:
Really? So that's why I see so many people converting to Islam, and all the
women in the US suddenly covering up in public.
Do you believe Bin Laden values are those of the Islam?
I don't.
Jochem
__
So suppose that requires a certain action of US citizens, regardless of
where they are, if they are in certain situation. And that action may
conflict with a requirement imposed by a local law. What then?
In the case of Lindh that would be an Afghan law requiring people to
resist invaders
Todd wrote:
OK .. we've reached a point where we are just going to go in circles. So
what you are basicly arguing is that if he was from the Netherlands, then it
should be OK for him to go to another country and potentialy kill other
citizens from the Netherlands and should not be tried if
OK .. that just makes no sense to me. Must just be a cultural difference
thing :)
Todd
- Original Message -
From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Todd wrote:
OK .. that just makes no sense to me. Must just be a cultural difference
thing :)
Don't do statistics with sample size 1 :)
Jochem
__
Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news
True, but it does make for easier calculations ;)
Todd
- Original Message -
From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Todd wrote:
OK .. that just
Todd
- Original Message -
From: Jon Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Todd's computer (Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in
prison)
Don't you get MSDN access with the MCSE? I thought I heard
Actually, both of the examples you gave would not be punishable, since they do not
violate federal law.
I seems to me that federal law (for the most part - it is changing a bit even as we
speak) has been reserved for classes of crimes that:
1. are/should be recognized as crimes regardless of
I know, I know, but I have it set that way for a reason .. should be temporary :)
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:10:16 +0100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Um, Todd ... Check your computer clock and date ...
Erika
__
Signup for the
nothing to do with software eval versions or anything like that i'm sure...!
;-)
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
I know, I know, but I have it set that way for a reason .. should be
temporary :)
Um, Todd ... Check your computer clock and date
Heh .. I had installed an evaluation edition of Win 2k advanced server for the MCSE
classes i was taking and then forgot that's what was on my computer. Well, the other
day a message popped up telling me the evaluation was up and my computer would shut
down in 1 hour. This was not a good
Don't you get MSDN access with the MCSE? I thought I heard that somewhere. I
love my MSDN to death ;-)
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 3:56 PM
Subject: Todd's computer (Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive
Scott Raley wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/07/15/lindh.htm
Supplying help to the Talibaan and carrying explosives in Afghanistanm
is punishable under American Law? Never knew that Afghanisatn was a
state of the USA.
Jochem
We were fighting the Taliban. He is an American citizen. He helped an enemy
we were at war with. That's called treason.
Judith
Scott Raley wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/07/15/lindh.htm
Supplying help to the Talibaan and carrying explosives in Afghanistanm
is punishable
He was an American fighting against American forces.
- Original Message -
From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Scott Raley wrote:
http
:51 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
We were fighting the Taliban. He is an American citizen. He helped an enemy
we were at war with. That's called treason.
Judith
Scott Raley wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/07/15/lindh.htm
-charges.htm
- Original Message -
From: Harkins,Patrick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
I am not sure if that is what he is being tried for... quite possibly, but
the new thing
Judith Dinowitz wrote:
We were fighting the Taliban. He is an American citizen. He helped an enemy
we were at war with. That's called treason.
Even when helping an enemy you are at war with is treason (I presume it
is), it was not done on American territory and he was there not in a
sworn
Howie Hamlin wrote:
The charges were:
- conspiring to murder U.S. nationals in Afghanistan
Did he conspire while in the US or while in Afghanistan?
- using and carrying firearms and destructive devices during violent crimes - stems
from Lindh's alleged admission that
he carried machine
-
From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Howie Hamlin wrote:
The charges were:
- conspiring to murder U.S. nationals in Afghanistan
Did he conspire while
Again, I'll have to disagree.
You are comparing apples to oranges.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/02 12:10PM
I find it a bit hypocritical(?) to say that the US can have laws that
govern what Americans do in Afghanistan, but other countries can not
have laws that govern what Americans do in
Are you bound by your countries laws if your not in your country? If pedophilia is
legal in Asia but illegal in your country, are you allowed to go to another country to
indulge in it? As a citizen of a country, you are bound by its laws.
And that's totally besides the point that this guy was
Are you trolling, or really asking?
The difference is, Lindh is an American citizen, fighting against American soldiers in
a time of war.
If you do exactly the same thing (a US citizen fighting against the US), you would not
be considered a POW.
If you are not a US citizen (or, arguably,
So let's see.. you are a citizen of the Netherlands, correct? Let's say the
Netherlands goes to war against some other country and you decide to go to
that other country and fight against the Netherlands. Lo and behold you are
captured by your country's army. You are a Prisoner of War.
Gee
Hey, we picked the same example. Were you also thinking about that famous
piano-player guy?
Jerry Johnson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/02 12:29PM
Are you bound by your countries laws if your not in your country? If pedophilia is
legal in Asia but illegal in your country, are you allowed to go
PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Are you bound by your countries laws if your not in your country? If pedophilia is
legal in Asia but illegal in your
country, are you allowed to go to another country to indulge in it? As a citizen of a
country, you are bound
I actually read somewhere that the Egyptian detainees at Camp X-Ray (how PC can I get
to not say POWs) don't want to go back to Egypt.
They are more worried about the interrogation they will receive at home than they
are with what the US might do to them.
Jerry Johnson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yep. People speak about how we're treating these guys badly and turn a blind eye to
their countries of origin. I'd love to see Europe wake up and yell at them for once
and not us. We're actually the more humane ones here.
What Egypt would do to these guys would violate several laws of man and
Macromedia Certified Advanced Coldfusion Developer
EDIETS.COM
954.360.9022 X159
ICQ 417645
- Original Message -
From: Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
X159
ICQ 417645
- Original Message -
From: Howie Hamlin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Several American men have been arrested when returning to the US after
leaving
It can happen here too...
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07102002/news/regionalnews/52198.htm
- Original Message -
From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
It can happen here too...
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07102002/news/regionalnews/52198.htm
- Original Message -
From: Bill Wheatley
guilty, won't receive life in prison
It can happen here too...
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07102002/news/regionalnews/52198.htm
- Original Message -
From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads
PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 2:33 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Methinks this situation is a bit different...
It's one thing to get a hand lopped off because of some machete wielding
maniac, and quite another to get a hand lopped off
| From: Harkins,Patrick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
|
| i'm quite sure Howie was joking...
Howie never jokes ;)
Erika
With a K
__
Get the mailserver that
- Original Message -
From: Harkins,Patrick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 2:59 PM
Subject: RE: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
i'm quite sure Howie was joking...
Yes, I have a bit of a dry sense of humor g
lol
-Original Message-
From: Erika L. Walker-Arnold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 3:02 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Howie never jokes ;)
Erika
With a K
I fail to see the humor in this...
g
- Original Message -
From: Erika L. Walker-Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 3:02 PM
Subject: RE: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
| From: Harkins,Patrick [mailto:[EMAIL
thunk! there goes another hand! ...lol
-Original Message-
From: Howie Hamlin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 3:03 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
i'm quite sure Howie was joking...
Yes, I have a bit of a dry
Judith Dinowitz wrote:
So let's see.. you are a citizen of the Netherlands, correct?
Last time I checked I was :)
Let's say the
Netherlands goes to war against some other country and you decide to go to
that other country and fight against the Netherlands. Lo and behold you are
Michael Dinowitz wrote:
If pedophilia is legal in Asia but illegal in your country, are you allowed to go to
another country to indulge in it?
Yes I am.
And that's totally besides the point that this guy was aiding and abetting a
terrorist group who was responsible (directly or indirectly)
What others are you talking about?
Jerry Johnson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/02 04:28PM
Michael Dinowitz wrote:
If pedophilia is legal in Asia but illegal in your country, are you allowed to go to
another country to indulge in it?
Yes I am.
And that's totally besides the point that this guy
He is unique, there were no other American citizens who took up arms
against the US on the battlefield.
-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 3:29 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life
PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Judith Dinowitz wrote:
So let's see.. you are a citizen of the Netherlands, correct?
Last time I checked I was :)
Let's say the
Netherlands goes to war against some other
425.466.7016 Cell
425.739.3690 FAX
- Original Message -
From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Michael Dinowitz wrote:
If pedophilia is legal in Asia
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Michael Dinowitz wrote:
If pedophilia is legal in Asia but illegal in your country, are you
allowed to go to another country to indulge in it?
Yes I am.
And that's totally besides the point that this guy was aiding and
abetting
Bill Wheatley wrote:
That doesn't make much sense though, I understand the reason he's being
tried now. But if you goto Amsterdam (I think it is that country :) ) and
pot is legal and you get high ITS not illegal there. The Us has 0 right to
do anything to you because you were in a country
:38 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
In this case, the laws of the United States provide that if a US citizen
should be found to be taking up arms against the United States or US
forces
(and sometimes our allies, but not always), they can be prosecuted in US
FAX
- Original Message -
From: Bill Wheatley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
he wasnt charged with treason
Bill Wheatley
Senior Database Developer
Macromedia
Jerry Johnson wrote:
Are you trolling, or really asking?
I am asking. I do troll from time to time, but not now.
If you are not a US citizen (or, arguably, hold dual citizenship), that would place
you in a different category. But, still (according to the rules the US has put in
place for
Bill Wheatley wrote:
LOL man i would hate to be charged with a crime in the middle east those
guys are eye for an eye. :)
I'm not looking to get my hand chopped off if i mistakenly put something in
a bag and forget to pay for it or something lol.
I think that is a good reason not to commit
://www.ebstor.com
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done.
--
-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:44 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Jerry
The last war formally declared in this country was WWII
-Original Message-
From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 3:51 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
From what I understand, Congress has never issued
Bill Wheatley wrote:
They are not calling the criminals in Camp Xray POWS specifically for that
reason if what i've read and listened to is still accurate
So what is their status?
Jochem
__
Your ad could be here. Monies from
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/02 04:40PM
snip
The way it works here is dual punishability. If something is punishable
in the country where it is done by a Dutch citizen and it is illegal
here as well, the Dutch Department of Justice will put in a request to
transfer the case to its jurisdiction.
They're just f***ed
^_^
-Gel
-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:52 PM
So what is their status?
Jochem
__
Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go
Jerry Johnson wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/02 12:10PM
I find it a bit hypocritical(?) to say that the US can have laws that
govern what Americans do in Afghanistan, but other countries can not
have laws that govern what Americans do in Afghanistan (ICC).
What would be hypocritical (not
If we really wanted to mess with them, we should send them two ministers.
A really, ugly, fat, sweaty, boring old man who stutters and is tone deaf and smells
of feet to read the Koran.
Elizabeth Hurley in increasingly skimpy outfits to read non-violent meditative (maybe
Buddhist?) writings.
, 2002 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Bill Wheatley wrote:
That doesn't make much sense though, I understand the reason he's being
tried now. But if you goto Amsterdam (I think it is that country :) )
and
pot is legal and you get high ITS not illegal
Your statement says that you do not believe that the laws of your country can be
applied to you if you break them in another country.
So all I have to do is lure you to a Muslim country, have you go into a room alone
with my wife, kill you and I can not be prosecuted by America or the
Michael Dinowitz wrote:
If pedophilia is legal in Asia but illegal in your country, are you allowed to go
to another country to indulge in it?
Yes I am.
And you expect to be allowed back into your country without being prosecuted?
And that's totally besides the point that this guy was
- Original Message -
From: Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Your statement says that you do not believe that the laws of your country
can be applied to you if you
Jerry Johnson wrote:
What others are you talking about?
Some European nationals I believe. And many M-E nationals.
Jochem
__
This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for
dependable
Jerry Johnson wrote:
IANAL, (just need to make clear I am pulling this from my behind).
The way I see it, we have two sets of laws here in the US (actually many more than
that, but I will try to keep this simple.)
Federal Laws and State Laws.
For the most part, state laws are only
Suppose some American teenager comes to the Netherlands at the age of
17. Meets somebody over 18, they have sex. That would be punishable
under US Federal Law if I understand it correctly, so this somebody
would have to be arrested as soon as he/she enters the US. Yet we
explicitly chose to
Suppose some American teenager comes to the Netherlands at the age of
17. Meets somebody over 18, they have sex. That would be punishable
under US Federal Law if I understand it correctly, so this somebody
would have to be arrested as soon as he/she enters the US. Yet we
explicitly chose to
(there is a better term) for sending criminals to another state for
prosecution there.
jon
- Original Message -
From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Community [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
-
From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 7:33 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Lindh pleads guilty, won't receive life in prison
Just an fyi...Hatton said it better, but I already finnished (hehe).
Having sex with a minor is a state issue here. West Virginia
Michael Dinowitz wrote:
Your statement says that you do not believe that the laws of your country can be
applied to you if you break them in another country.
Where that particular act is not illegal. Else the Dutch government can
ask for a transfer of jurisdiction, which the other country is
C. Hatton Humphrey wrote:
Suppose some American teenager comes to the Netherlands at the age of
17. Meets somebody over 18, they have sex. That would be punishable
under US Federal Law if I understand it correctly, so this somebody
would have to be arrested as soon as he/she enters the US. Yet we
Todd wrote:
Suppose some American teenager comes to the Netherlands at the age of
17. Meets somebody over 18, they have sex. That would be punishable
under US Federal Law if I understand it correctly, so this somebody
would have to be arrested as soon as he/she enters the US. Yet we
explicitly
Judith Dinowitz wrote:
So let's see.. you are a citizen of the Netherlands, correct? Let's say the
Netherlands goes to war against some other country and you decide to go to
that other country and fight against the Netherlands. Lo and behold you are
captured by your country's army. You are
Not exactly, you have to remember, age of consent varies by state. As do
prostitution laws. For instance, in the state of Nevada prostitution is
legal so long as the county in which it takes place has a population under
25,000. I think, I read this just today on some Fark link.
They don't
Minor: somebody who is under the age of 18.
Did some digging.
quote
A non minor (major?) who voluntarily enters into service with foreign
armed forces that are involved in militairy operations against the
Kingdom or an alliance in which the Kingdom is involved, will lose
citizenship
Todd wrote:
Suppose some American teenager comes to the Netherlands at the age of
17. Meets somebody over 18, they have sex. That would be punishable
under US Federal Law if I understand it correctly, so this somebody
would have to be arrested as soon as he/she enters the US. Yet we
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