Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-02 Thread John C. Bland II
Coo on 1st agreement. Yes, you are right. The CSS is not broken. Fix is used very loosely, as is hack in my vocab. I have been leaving too many blanket statements (which is what I told someone else not to do so I'm am 100% guilty there). I don't know...bug not found really means IE 6 does not

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-01 Thread Jochem van Dieten
John C. Bland II Are you seriously stating you called MSFT about IE not rendering something right? Of course. If you find a bug you report it. How else do bugs get fixed, by bashing the vendor on #1337? That is definitely not a bug. So how would you call it if a browser does not render a

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-01 Thread Jochem van Dieten
Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote: He was being sarcastic, that was obvious. that is not a bug, that is a feature - IE rendering of some CSS Level 1 core stuff (btw, the MS homepage still claims that IE 6 has Full CSS Level 1 Support

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-01 Thread Mark Henderson
On 9/30/06, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) wrote He was being sarcastic, that was obvious. Then John C. Bland II wrote Apparently not. ;-) and the text in question from Jochem: So next time I find an issue where for instance a bug in IE results in incorrect rendering, I can just call and I get a

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-01 Thread Dawson, Michael
In fact, the only company that does worse is Blackboard So very true. M!ke ~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-01 Thread John C. Bland II
Oh man, this is one of the reasons I don't like replying on big lists. I have to explain every detail or I get flamed by someone. Duh, the rendering engine does not render everything properly and the community has found the necessary hacks to work around them. Did you think I was talking about 5

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-01 Thread John C. Bland II
Read my last post in response. I explain. On 10/1/06, Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John C. Bland II Are you seriously stating you called MSFT about IE not rendering something right? Of course. If you find a bug you report it. How else do bugs get fixed, by bashing the

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-01 Thread John McKown
Phillip, Well written. I agree 100%. John -Original Message- From: Phillip Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:30 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Steve, Let me start by saying I have been with CF since 1996. I've

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-01 Thread Matt Quackenbush
with IE since there is a hack available... That's frequin delusional. :-) -Original Message- From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:20 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Oh man, this is one of the reasons I don't like

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-01 Thread Jochem van Dieten
John C. Bland II wrote: Duh, the rendering engine does not render everything properly and the community has found the necessary hacks to work around them. Did you think I was talking about 5 years ago or now? You were talking about a specific phone call I made in the past. If you don't know

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-01 Thread John C. Bland II
(responded offlist; this post is pretty much dead and no need to fill up everyone's inbox) On 10/1/06, Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John C. Bland II wrote: Duh, the rendering engine does not render everything properly and the community has found the necessary hacks to work

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-01 Thread John C. Bland II
:20 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Oh man, this is one of the reasons I don't like replying on big lists. I have to explain every detail or I get flamed by someone. Duh, the rendering engine does not render everything properly and the community has found the necessary

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-10-01 Thread Mark Henderson
CSS developers aren't considered such unless they can make things work cross-browser. Would you agree? Agreed, no arguments there. Even if you don't, that is my take. I won't hire anyone for XHTML/CSS unless they can work cross-browser. So, again...fix your CSS. This is where we differ

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread John C. Bland II
I def' agree that learning .NET is not an easy task. If you know JS, Actionscript, Java, etc (an ECMA language) picking up C# won't be too difficult. Learning all of the libraries in .NET is simply an astounding task but once you know ASP.NET you're golden for all things ASP.NET. CF developers can

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: John C. Bland II To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Sep 30 07:49:01 2006 Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? I def' agree that learning .NET is not an easy task. If you know JS, Actionscript, Java, etc (an ECMA

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Snake
Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: John C. Bland II To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Sep 30 07:49:01 2006 Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? I def' agree that learning .NET is not an easy task. If you know JS, Actionscript, Java, etc (an ECMA

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Snake To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Sep 30 11:30:42 2006 Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Personally I just use BlueDragon, which means I can call

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Snake
within this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Snake To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Sep 30 11:30:42 2006 Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Personally I just use BlueDragon, which means I

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
this communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Snake To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Sep 30 14:22:10 2006 Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? You can develop .NET in many languages, I do not think

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Snake
(RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 September 2006 14:56 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? No I mean, using CFML in BD.NET is not really developing .NET, it's ColdFusion which just happens to be using .NET. Just like developing ColdFusion on Adobe ColdFusion

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Teddy Payne
? Russ -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 September 2006 14:56 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? No I mean, using CFML in BD.NET is not really developing .NET, it's ColdFusion which just happens to be using .NET

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Snake
have antyhing against .NET, and if I were not a CF developer I would most likely be doing .NET anyway, I think it's a great framework. Russ Snake Michaels -Original Message- From: Teddy Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 September 2006 16:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Tom Kitta
: Teddy Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 September 2006 16:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? This CF vs. .Net presentation mailing thread has been in active contribution most of the past week. I have seen heated debates and acknowledgements on both sides. In essence

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: Tom Kitta To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Sep 30 17:05:55 2006 Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Teddy, Maybe we can take this thread and make it more useful by showing strengths of both technologies, how they can interact, how we can

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Chesty Puller
@houseoffusion.com Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Indeed, we are an global Microsoft house and we use ColdFusion, and ASP, and ..NET.. We don't care to be honest.. Whatever fits. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Snake
Job security just does not exist much anymore, which is why it's important to know more than CF. - Matt Small Really Matt? Its kept me employed for 7 years, and the two companies I own which specialise in CF are still doing very well. -- Russ

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Teddy Payne
the conversation more mailing list administrator friendly (I think). TK -Original Message- From: Teddy Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 September 2006 16:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? This CF vs. .Net presentation mailing thread has been in active

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Jochem van Dieten
Matthew Small wrote: One of the biggest things that can be said about MS products is that they are supported, constantly. IIRC the only web development language of any significance ever deprecated by its vendor was ASP. But even better, we have professional support for the little guy. When

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread John C. Bland II
Are you seriously stating you called MSFT about IE not rendering something right? That is definitely not a bug. IE has a rendering engine. CSS developers know what it can and can't handle. If you did something it can't handle, tough cookies. Fix your CSS...not IE. lol. Sorry man, that just seemed

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Russ
] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 7:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? That's just wrong. Over 99% of our support is not about bugs in the products we have, it's about how people are using them. I can't count the number of people who can't configure permissions

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Russ
I don't have access to a solaris box, but I will install one if necessary. Do you have an actual code sample? Russ -Original Message- From: Tom Kitta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Russ here

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
Sent: Sat Sep 30 22:15:40 2006 Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Are you seriously stating you called MSFT about IE not rendering something right? That is definitely not a bug. IE has a rendering engine. CSS developers know what it can and can't handle. If you did something it can't handle

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-30 Thread John C. Bland II
our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: John C. Bland II To: CF-Talk Sent: Sat Sep 30 22:15:40 2006 Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Are you seriously stating you called MSFT about IE not rendering something right? That is definitely not a bug. IE has

CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Johnny Le
Hi, Have any of you done a presentation to justify using CF over .NET? A friend of mine just got a big contract, but the owner wants it to be done in .NET. My friend is trying to convince him to let him do it in CF. If you have done a similar presentation, would you please give us some

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Snake
You don't even need to make that choice any more. You can use BlueDragon then your doing both. Developing in CFML on the .net platform. Russ -Original Message- From: Johnny Le [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 September 2006 12:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: CF vs. .NET presentations? Hi

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Peter Boughton
This has never failed to work for me: Slide 1: .NET is a pile of poo! Slide 2: CF is wonderful!!! The End. ;) Alternatively, you could go for the both option, with BlueDragon.NET http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/index.cfm Hi, Have any of you done a presentation to justify

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Casey Dougall
BlueDragon beta 7 was just released. On 9/29/06, Peter Boughton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has never failed to work for me: Slide 1: .NET is a pile of poo! Slide 2: CF is wonderful!!! The End. ;) Alternatively, you could go for the both option, with BlueDragon.NET

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Doug Brown
Windows® 2000, Windows XP, and the forthcoming Windows Server 2003. That all you need!! - Original Message - From: Peter Boughton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 6:00 AM Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? This has never

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread David Low
You'd have to update that a bit - Windows Server 2003 was 'upcoming' about four years ago :-) -Original Message- From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 September 2006 13:18 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Coldfusion Web Server Support Supports

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Doug Brown
funnyI guess MS is lagging behind a little. Doug - Original Message - From: David Low [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 6:18 AM Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? You'd have to update that a bit - Windows Server 2003

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Snake
Microsoft WindowsR 2000, Windows XP, and the forthcoming Windows Server 2003. That all you need!! - Original Message - From: Peter Boughton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 6:00 AM Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? This has never

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Massimo Gianadda
: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Coldfusion Web Server Support Supports IIS, Sun ONE, Netscape IPlanet, and Apache. Operating System Support Supports Windows, Linux, Solaris, and HP-UX. Net Web Server Support Supports IIS and Covalent's commercial version of Apache 2.0. Operating System

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Tom Kitta
: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? That's only really useful if you want to run on anything other windows. The fact that they want to use .NET I presume means they like windows. Russ -Original Message- From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 September 2006 13:18 To: CF-Talk

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Phillip Holmes
] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 7:18 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Coldfusion Web Server Support Supports IIS, Sun ONE, Netscape IPlanet, and Apache. Operating System Support Supports Windows, Linux, Solaris, and HP-UX. ...Net Web Server Support Supports IIS

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Steve Brownlee
that the programmers knowledge of both is equal. Steve Brownlee http://www.fusioncube.net/ -Original Message- From: Tom Kitta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 5:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Is the argument that development in CF

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Rick Faircloth
But you don't have to pay for .NET functionality if you don't use CF or BlueDragon, right? Rick -Original Message- From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 8:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? You don't even need to make

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Phillip Holmes
PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:19 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? I use ASP.NET quite a bit, and while I'd still give CF a slight edge in development speed, the gap has closed tremendously since the days of original ASP. Now that ASP.NET has a top-notch visual

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Dave Carabetta
On 9/29/06, Johnny Le [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Have any of you done a presentation to justify using CF over .NET? A friend of mine just got a big contract, but the owner wants it to be done in .NET. My friend is trying to convince him to let him do it in CF. If you have done a

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Dawson, Michael
Unfortunately, I can see the writing on the wall for CF unless Adobe adopts a DRAMATIC pricing reduction strategy. Plain and simply put, with ..NET and Mono in the market, CF can no longer increase market share whilst continuing to maintain / increase their pricing. They're not the only game in

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread James Holmes
If you include the cost of our database infrastructure (which is used for mutiple purposes), our Sun based Oracle/Solaris/CF architecture cost maybe $1,000,000. What's a few thousand in that for CF? Nothing compared to the benefits we get. Not everyone runs small shops where a CF license is a

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Rick Faircloth
user experience improvements through the various CF versions. A good discussion to have on a Friday... Rick -Original Message- From: Phillip Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:30 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Steve, Let me

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Tom Kitta
: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:30 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Steve, Let me start by saying I have been with CF since 1996. I've recently learned .NET via C# as well. The resemblance of C# to Java is remarkable which made the learning curve much faster for me. However, I

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Russ
support SSL (but I'm sure I can find a way around that using apache if I had to). You can't say the same about .NET. Russ -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:15 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Loathe
? I thought that Myspace has been about the largest web application in the world for the last couple of years. -Original Message- From: Phillip Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:30 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Steve, Let

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Loathe
: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Personally, I tried to learn .NET a few times, but it seemed pretty backward to me, and I have a MS in CS. I'm sure if I really needed to, I could learn

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Jacob
=== -Original Message- From: Steve Brownlee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:19 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? I use ASP.NET quite a bit, and while I'd still give CF a slight edge in development speed, the gap has closed tremendously since

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread John C. Bland II
=== -Original Message- From: Steve Brownlee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:19 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? I use ASP.NET quite a bit, and while I'd still give CF a slight edge in development speed, the gap has closed tremendously since

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Loathe
that is still here and slowly being replaced. All I am saying, the sky isn't falling people. -Original Message- From: Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? I thought that Myspace has been about

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Loathe
? Have you purchased a J2EE server recently? Know how much they cost? -Original Message- From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:14 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Loathe, can you store that session data

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Michael Dinowitz
This topic has come up every 2 months since before there even was an Asp. But it's off topic for this technical list. Please move any responses over to the CF-OT (ColdFusion off topic) list, CF-Community (where it will be ridiculed) or even to CF-Jobs-Talk or Biz-Dev (Business Development).

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Phillip B. Holmes
rant -- Phil = -Original Message- From: Loathe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:02 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? I don't think I could disagree more. I've been around the CF community for a few minutes now, and I see

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Rick Faircloth
can't say the same about .NET, what did you mean? Rick -Original Message- From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Personally, I tried to learn .NET a few times, but it seemed pretty backward to me

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread John C. Bland II
: Loathe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Yes I can it's called wddx. My own session handler? Why would I, they wrote one for me. If I needed more than what it offered I could extend my

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread John C. Bland II
vs. .NET presentations? This topic has come up every 2 months since before there even was an Asp. But it's off topic for this technical list. Please move any responses over to the CF-OT (ColdFusion off topic) list, CF-Community (where it will be ridiculed) or even to CF-Jobs-Talk or Biz

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Rick Faircloth
=== -Original Message- From: Steve Brownlee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:19 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? I use ASP.NET quite a bit, and while I'd still give CF a slight edge in development speed, the gap has closed tremendously since

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Rick Faircloth
Any stats on how many one-man or two-man shops, etc, are using CF? I'd like to know the breakdown... Rick -Original Message- From: Loathe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? It does that's for sure

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
- From: John C. Bland II To: CF-Talk Sent: Fri Sep 29 17:42:44 2006 Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Dude, you are arguing just to argue. lol. Calm down a bit. WDDX? Are you serious? :-D I wish my laughing emoticon worked here. lol. There are tons of reasons why you may want to write

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread loathe
Sign up on CF-Talk if you would. I'd like to continue this. -Original Message- From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:43 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Dude, you are arguing just to argue. lol. Calm down a bit

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Russ
29, 2006 12:36 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Thanks for the comments, Russ. I guess I need to look at BD's site again...I checked out their offerings when the announcement of the latest version hit the list yesterday, but didn't see a free version...I would

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Russ
of loading the db server on every request. Russ -Original Message- From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:43 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Dude, you are arguing just to argue. lol. Calm down a bit. WDDX

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Loathe
It was on BSD at one point, but they may have thrown that aside. -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? ASP.NET is OS independent Erm, AFAIK

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Charlie Griefer
On 9/29/06, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with your bottom-line, John, that it's mostly a matter of money...free vs. $1200, minimum. For me, it's not so much about functionality...I'm still building websites and apps on CF 4.5 as fast as I can program them...and I've still

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Dave Watts
Loathe, can you store that session data in a database with ease? If so, what database? Can you write your own session handler that integrates with the CF session handler? Yes, any, yes. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by integration, though, so you might want to provide more specific

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread John C. Bland II
To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Dude, you are arguing just to argue. lol. Calm down a bit. WDDX? Are you serious? :-D I wish my laughing emoticon worked here. lol. There are tons of reasons why you may want to write your own session handler OR just write a new

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Dave Watts
Is the argument that development in CF is quicker then in .NET still valid - when comparing latest to latest - anyone expert on say Asp.Net ... I think this largely depends on your background. Visual Studio.NET does a very good job of making web application development seem to work like

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Phillip B. Holmes
bridge (like JDBC). DB hits to MS SQL are going to naturally be faster. --Phil -Original Message- From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? There are a few lines that you can add to CF config files

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread loathe
I meant community, sorry. -Original Message- From: John C. Bland II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 1:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? I'm already on it. I'll respond once the convo moves over. On 9/29/06, loathe [EMAIL

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Russ
PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? I imagine it will be the same with ASP. DB Session handling in ASP.NET is a native functionality of .NET which you flip the setting in the web.config file and setup your SQL DB that handles

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Russ
PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? I imagine it will be the same with ASP. DB Session handling in ASP.NET is a native functionality of .NET which you flip the setting in the web.config file and setup your SQL DB that handles only those requests...the process and DB hit

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread loathe
Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? Also the JDBC-ODBC bridge is not used when talking to SQL server. I'm not sure what the performance difference is between JDBC and ODBC, maybe someone can pitch in here. Russ -Original Message- From: Phillip B. Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Dave Watts
Remember ADO needs no ODBC bridge (like JDBC). DB hits to MS SQL are going to naturally be faster. The DataDirect MS SQL driver used by CF is a type 4 JDBC driver. It doesn't use ODBC. I suspect that the ADO driver may well be faster, but I don't know if it's enough faster to make a

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Phillip B. Holmes
and make more CF jobs for everyone :) --Phil -Original Message- From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 12:37 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? You still need some sort of central DB server, so it's still putting extra load on a server

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Dave Watts
Correct. But my main point was not for a onesey twosey environment / shop. It's the big sites that have 30+ boxes. An extra MS SQL read is a lot less than 6k per box (example: $180,000.00 vs. an extra SQL read 5,000.00 or so). You know, the big sites don't necessarily scale out, they also

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Rick Faircloth
the $1300 I paid to Allaire many years ago...) Rick -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 1:05 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? On 9/29/06, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with your

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread John C. Bland II
(Mike, sorry...seems to have a mind of its own. There is some technical talk in Dave's post and mine, here, as well.) Dude, what a long post. lol. I'll try to make sure I respond accordingly. :-) What I mean by integrate is more-so an extending. Without knowing Java, can you handle that with

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Jerry Johnson
Actually, .net developers, for a comparable skill level, are usually cheaper than their cf counterparts. I know that because we are out-sourcing cf development like crazy (11 external developers at the moment, I think, and more coming), and we have to justify the added cost each project. Still

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread John C. Bland II
Dave, I've always stood by that ASP.NET without Visual Studio is lacking. VS is the no doubt the major selling point here. Using Notepad would only be for the seasoned developer. On 9/29/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is the argument that development in CF is quicker then in .NET

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Steve Brownlee
: Friday, September 29, 2006 7:48 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: CF vs. .NET presentations? Hi, Have any of you done a presentation to justify using CF over .NET? A friend of mine just got a big contract, but the owner wants it to be done in .NET. My friend is trying to convince him to let him do it in CF

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread John C. Bland II
not much harder then doing it in ASP. CF just gives you more options. Russ -Original Message- From: Phillip B. Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations? I imagine it will be the same with ASP

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread John C. Bland II
(but I'm sure I can find a way around that using apache if I had to). You can't say the same about .NET. Russ -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:15 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. .NET presentations

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
C. Bland II To: CF-Talk Sent: Fri Sep 29 19:31:29 2006 Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Dave, I've always stood by that ASP.NET without Visual Studio is lacking. VS is the no doubt the major selling point here. Using Notepad would only be for the seasoned developer. On 9/29/06, Dave Watts

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread John C. Bland II
expressed by Reed Exhibitions. Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com -Original Message- From: John C. Bland II To: CF-Talk Sent: Fri Sep 29 19:31:29 2006 Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Dave, I've always stood by that ASP.NET without Visual Studio is lacking. VS

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Russ
29, 2006 2:41 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Well you would seriously struggle to develop in .NET without it. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Dave Watts
I'm not sure if it's even possible. Doesn't .NET compile components to dll's? You can do that from notepad. At the minimum you would need some kind of JDK. The .NET Framework SDK includes a compiler, and it's available as a free download. In addition, there are several useful tools other

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread John C. Bland II
of JDK. Russ -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:Neil.Robertson- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 2:41 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Well you would seriously struggle to develop in .NET without

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Dave Watts
What I mean by integrate is more-so an extending. Without knowing Java, can you handle that with ease (being the key part)? Also, can a non-advanced user do it? (another key part) No, probably not. However, learning CF and Java seems to be about the same amount of work as learning .NET. In

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Matthew Small
Sorry to chime in late, and after Mike said not to... I haven't been on this list in a long time either. However, this isn't about .NET vs. CF. It's to respond to Dave's comments. I know that Dave works in the DC area (please correct me if I'm wrong) and DC is strong into CF with all of the

Re: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread John C. Bland II
Well put. A lil' defensive (understandably) but well put. On 9/29/06, Matthew Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry to chime in late, and after Mike said not to... I haven't been on this list in a long time either. However, this isn't about .NET vs. CF. It's to respond to Dave's comments.

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Russ
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 6:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. .NET presentations? Sorry to chime in late, and after Mike said not to... I haven't been on this list in a long time either. However, this isn't about .NET vs. CF. It's to respond to Dave's

RE: CF vs. .NET presentations?

2006-09-29 Thread Dave Watts
Before I get started, I should probably again state that I do like quite a few Microsoft products. And, I'm not trying to be combative. But anyway ... I know that Dave works in the DC area (please correct me if I'm wrong) and DC is strong into CF with all of the government agencies. That's

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