Friends,
A message I posted to the list in the verses thread did not seem to
show up on my system, so after checking to make certain that I _had_
sent it to the list, I ventured into the archives. Yes, I had sent the
post, so I won't bother to resend.
I was amazed, though to note a couple
No need to be triumphal, David, about your often abrasive and
offensive posting style. Keith has simply requested that you treat
others on this list - especially those with whom you disagree - with
dignity .. not too much to ask?
Rodney
At 12:21 PM 28/01/2006, you wrote:
Message: 32
Date:
John Howell wrote:
At 11:25 PM + 1/28/06, Owain Sutton wrote:
John Howell wrote:
(Academic: A composer who earns a living teaching because s/he
cannot write music that earns a living, but argues that any music
that sells is a sellout.)
A thoroughly unfair stereotype. Most
John Bell wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006, at 22:40, John Howell wrote:
Personal opinion: Any song with 10 verses shows lack of craft on the
part of the poet, quite typical of amateurs, and needs to be either
shortened or arranged so that you aren't repeating the same music
over and over and over
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/28/2006 4:29:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That might help audiences of today feel more relaxed about orchestral
music the way that audiences of 200 years ago felt. Not a stodgy
presentation to be listened to in rapt
Owain Sutton wrote:
John Howell wrote:
At 11:25 PM + 1/28/06, Owain Sutton wrote:
John Howell wrote:
(Academic: A composer who earns a living teaching because s/he
cannot write music that earns a living, but argues that any music
that sells is a sellout.)
A thoroughly unfair
dhbailey wrote:
I don't think John was saying that Wind Band music was the way forward
-- he was just pointing out that it is a wide-open marketplace which
embraces new music, so if someone wants to sell some music, writing
music (not necessarily in a pandering or sold-out style) for the
Hi All,
I'm doing a bit of research, and thought I might offer up a question to
the many experienced members of the list.
Type-setters use some relative units of measurement, for example, the em
(equal to the same point size as the type being set) and the en (one
half of an em space). I am
On 29.01.2006 Scott Amort wrote:
Type-setters use some relative units of measurement, for example, the em
(equal to the same point size as the type being set) and the en (one
half of an em space). I am wondering what the main relative units of
measurement are in music engraving (or, if in fact
On Jan 28, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
There is in the U.S. a dogmatic divide between contemporary and
classical music that just does not exist in Europe.
I reiterate (for the third time now in this thread, so far w.o
rejoinder) that this is no longer the case in Philadelphia.
dhbailey wrote:
Writing music you detest to put bread on your table is selling out
(think of those horrid German Dances and countless Minuets which
Beethoven and Mozart wrote to put bread on their table) but writing
music which you believe in but is tailored to someone's specific needs
so
On Jan 28, 2006, at 8:04 PM, John Howell wrote:
are they willing to analyze the marketplace and produce music suited
to it? Mozart did.
Trying to suck up to potential employers is not the same as addressing
a market. If that were so, then any slob who sends out a resume is an
Ted Ross (The Art of Music Engraving and Processing) measures everything
in spaces (down to 1/4 space increments).
Finale uses the EDU, which is both relative and a fixed unit. As a
relative unit, 24 EDU is equal to a space. As a fixed unit, 288 EDU
equals an inch. Relative and fixed EDUs are
Oops, I'm acronym dyslexic. Finale's unit of distance is the EVPU. The
EDU measures metric time duration (1024 units per quarter note).
Incidentally, Finale in recent years has another distance unit called
the EFIX. 64 EFIX = 1 EVPU, so a space is 1536 EFIX, and an inch is
18,432 EFIX. EFIX
In church this morning:
Prelude: Gavotte
Anthem: Praise God, Sing All Ye Heavens
Offertory: Sonata in F Major
Postlude: Ah Vous Dirais
Worship Note: In celebration of Mozart's 250th birthday on January 26,
2006 the Prelude, Anthem, Offertory, and Postlude highlight his faithful
music. We
On Jan 27, 2006, at 11:23 PM, dc wrote:
How many verses can one put under a vocal line without confusing the
singer? I'm doing an Italian piece with no less than 10 verses. How
many should I keep under the music? And then, what do I do with the
others? Add the text only after the music?
Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Jan 28, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
There is in the U.S. a dogmatic divide between contemporary and
classical music that just does not exist in Europe.
I reiterate (for the third time now in this thread, so far w.o
rejoinder) that this is no longer
On 28 Jan 2006 at 18:50, Simon Troup wrote:
Perhaps I'm a throwback to an older era when people spoke more
plainly and forcefully, and did not hedge their opinions in an
attempt to disguise significant disagreement and, I guess, avoid
conflict. David
David, you're completely deluded.
Let it go, David. You should be embarrassed!
Richard Smith
- Original Message -
From: David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Fenton...the throwback
On 28 Jan 2006 at 18:50, Simon Troup wrote:
Perhaps I'm
On 28 Jan 2006 at 20:04, John Howell wrote:
At 11:25 PM + 1/28/06, Owain Sutton wrote:
John Howell wrote:
(Academic: A composer who earns a living teaching because s/he
cannot write music that earns a living, but argues that any music
that sells is a sellout.)
A thoroughly unfair
Le 06-01-29 à 15:45, David W. Fenton a écrit :But I simply don't see what posts like this one accomplish. It would be one thing if you sent it to me personally, but sending it to the list seems to me to be nothing but an invitation to a flamewar, an invitation I'm not going to accept. You
You really don't get it David, was what I meant, sorry.Le 06-01-29 à 16:03, Éric Dussault a écrit :You really don't get David, don't you. Eric DussaultFinale 2006c for MacReal-time Finale discussion - http://www.finaleirc.com ___
Finale mailing list
On 29 Jan 2006 at 19:39, Rodney Waterman wrote:
No need to be triumphal, David, about your often abrasive and
offensive posting style. Keith has simply requested that you treat
others on this list - especially those with whom you disagree - with
dignity .. not too much to ask?
Well, so far
On 29 Jan 2006 at 9:04, dhbailey wrote:
Writing music you detest to put bread on your table is selling out
(think of those horrid German Dances and countless Minuets which
Beethoven and Mozart wrote to put bread on their table)
Horrid? I wouldn't say so. Utilitarian? Sure. Elevated in style?
On 29 Jan 2006 at 12:46, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Jan 28, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
There is in the U.S. a dogmatic divide between contemporary and
classical music that just does not exist in Europe.
I reiterate (for the third time now in this thread, so far w.o
On 28 Jan 2006 at 17:40, John Howell wrote:
Some singers will attempt to write the additional verses in along with
the notation. Messy. They're the ones who can't (or won't!) memorize
their parts!
Well, there can be text underlay issues that can make it tricky, if
the lyrics are not
Thank GOD, cause my Trash bin on my email can't hold much more.
David W. Fenton wrote:
You're welcome to your opinions. Certainly I'm not going to dispute
your right to hold them and to disagree with me, either on style or
content.
But I simply don't see what posts like this one accomplish.
Hey!
What happened to Mass EditClear Items... lyrics or chords? In my
FinMac2006c these items are greyed out!
I worked around it by copying the measures in question to a blank
staff, unchecking chords and lyrics as items to copy, then copying them
back, but the loss of that functionality is
On Jan 29, 2006, at 4:00 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
So, I don't want to overstate Mozart's independence of public
taste. But his father certainly lectured him repeatedly on taking
more account of the tastes of his audiences, which suggests that at
least one fine and perceptive musician thought
On Jan 29, 2006, at 4:17 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 29 Jan 2006 at 12:46, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Jan 28, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
There is in the U.S. a dogmatic divide between contemporary and
classical music that just does not exist in Europe.
I reiterate (for the
Christopher Smith wrote:
There is in the U.S. a dogmatic divide between contemporary and
classical music that just does not exist in Europe.
I reiterate (for the third time now in this thread, so far w.o
rejoinder) that this is no longer the case in Philadelphia.
Is it not the case that San
At 2:21 PM -0800 1/29/06, Carl Dershem wrote:
To me, the price of tickets, plus the perception of snootiness are
at least as much what keep the audiences away as anything else.
As to the price of tickets, rock concerts and musicals are more
expensive than the classical fare.
-Randolph
Only stadium rock concerts are more expensive than classical fare,
and then only for massive touring acts like Madonna and U2. Madison
Square Garden is one thing, but seeing even a big-name gig at the
Mercury Lounge or Joe's Pub costs considerably less than going to
Carnegie Hall or
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Only stadium rock concerts are more expensive than classical fare, and
then only for massive touring acts like Madonna and U2. Madison Square
Garden is one thing, but seeing even a big-name gig at the Mercury
Lounge or Joe's Pub costs considerably less than going to
At 1:32 AM -0500 1/29/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In order to stretch beyond the already-familiar, audiences need to
do some work, which starts with arts education in the schools,
public funding, and all the rest of it. And it's the job of music
educators to motivate people to exercise their
It's debatable which is the most expensive genre of music. On a
recent trip to New York, my Met opera tickets, second highest price,
cost $100 while a similar ticket to Spamalot was going for $120. (I
didn't have the advantage of same-day half price tickets.) And
shouldn't the Joe's Pub venue
Owain Sutton wrote:
Random unscientific test to see if your claim applies for London:
Richard Ashcroft at the Brixton Academy (hardly U2) - £22.50. Gigs at
the Mean Fiddler - anywhere from £8 to £18. Wembley Arena tickets
around £25.
At the South Bank Centre, you can see the Alban Berg
Well, you could look yourself:
Rigoletto at the Met:
Prime Orchestra
$175
Balance Orchestra
$100
Rear Orchestra
$80
Center Parterre
$320
Side Parterre
$110
Front Grand Tier
$175
Rear Grand Tier
$100
Dress Circle
$100
Balcony
$65
Family Circle
$26
***
Jansons/Concertgebouw at Carnegie
Carl Dershem wrote:
[snip]
To me, the price of tickets, plus the perception of snootiness are at
least as much what keep the audiences away as anything else.
That would be something I could agree with if it weren't that the same
folks who won't attend the symphony because of ticket
dhbailey wrote:
Or to go to a football game (if you add in the cost of parking and the
vastly overpriced souvenirs and refreshments).
Another very good comparison. And in terms of sheer numbers and
regularity of attendance, one that shows price is not necessarily an
obstacle to huge
dhbailey wrote:
To me, the price of tickets, plus the perception of snootiness are at
least as much what keep the audiences away as anything else.
That would be something I could agree with if it weren't that the same
folks who won't attend the symphony because of ticket prices will pay 3
On 29 Jan 2006, at 12:31 PM, John Howell wrote:
What is happening to that Popular Music in the early 21st century
would make an interesting study. Commercialism rules, of course,
but it always has. Modern communications simply makes it easier
and quicker for it to act. Already jazz--at
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Actually, the majority of indie rock fans roughly my age (let's say
21-40) are all in favor of timbrallly, structurally, lyrically
sophisticated music that challenges them as listeners. They don't want
simplicity or sugarcoated accessibility or stereotypically
On 1/29/06, Carl Dershem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dizzy's usually ranges from $7-12 a ticket, and has very good
entertainment.
Dizzy's can be even better than that... I've never been there, but
apparently there are nights when all you have to do is bring your horn
and sit in for a few tunes and
On 29 Jan 2006, at 7:41 PM, Carl Dershem wrote:
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Actually, the majority of indie rock fans roughly my age (let's
say 21-40) are all in favor of timbrallly, structurally,
lyrically sophisticated music that challenges them as listeners.
They don't want simplicity
Damn the plain text formatting that ruined my ever-so-thoughtful reply!
I'm reposting it with the extra spaces that are (sometimes, but not
always) necessary for my posts to look like I want them. (When I get a
minute I'll explore the options in Thunderbird.)
Personal opinion: Any song
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Only stadium rock concerts are more expensive than classical fare,
and then only for massive touring acts like Madonna and U2. Madison
Square Garden is one thing, but seeing even a big-name gig at the
Mercury Lounge or Joe's Pub costs considerably less than going to
At 10:53 AM + 1/29/06, Owain Sutton wrote:
Some good points, perhaps, although I think you need a bit more
evidence before making such claims about Dufay or Josquin with such
certainty!
In DuFay's lifetime the popularity of one's music can be measured by
the number of manuscripts
John,
Would you point me in the direction of this OrchestraList? I'd really
appreciate it!
Thank you,
Brennon Bortz
On 1/29/06 5:18 PM, John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 10:53 AM + 1/29/06, Owain Sutton wrote:
Some good points, perhaps, although I think you need a bit more
On Sun, 2006-01-29 at 18:37 +0100, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
Spot on. Spaces and Notehead width. (I think it is the width of a
quarter note head, but that I don't know for sure.)
Thanks all, for taking the time to respond. I've been meaning to take a
look at the Ted Ross book for a while, now
Bravo John!!
Cheers K
Keith Helgesen.
Director of Music, Canberra City Band.
Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0439-620587
Private Mob 0417-042171
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
John Howell
Sent: Monday, 30 January 2006 4:31 AM
To:
At 12:43 PM -0500 1/29/06, Phil Daley wrote:
In church this morning:
Prelude: Gavotte
Anthem: Praise God, Sing All Ye Heavens
Offertory: Sonata in F Major
Postlude: Ah Vous Dirais
Worship Note: In celebration of Mozart's 250th birthday on January
26, 2006 the Prelude, Anthem, Offertory,
dhbailey wrote:
Writing music you detest to put bread on your
table is selling out (think of those horrid
German Dances and countless Minuets which
Beethoven and Mozart wrote to put bread on
their table) but writing music which you
believe in but is tailored to someone's
specific needs so
just wondering---
Why is it that when I view at 75% the rulers have inches that are correct,
but at 100% view inches are one and five-eighths long? It's obvious the
length is relative to view, but one would expect an inch to be the right
length at 100% view, no?
-Cecil Rigby
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Jan 29, 2006, at 4:41 PM, Carl Dershem wrote:
I can just hear Dick Clark's kids giving it a 10, because it has a
beat and you can dance to it.
Dean
(Probably dating myself)
From discussions I've had mith my nieces and nephews and their
contemporaries, most of the music fans now
Cecil Rigby wrote:
just wondering---
Why is it that when I view at 75% the rulers have inches that are correct,
but at 100% view inches are one and five-eighths long? It's obvious the
length is relative to view, but one would expect an inch to be the right
length at 100% view, no?
Who knows
On Jan 29, 2006, at 5:44 PM, John Howell wrote:
You mean Ländler? Nothing horrid about Haydn's use in symphonies
in place of minuets (or Richard Rodgers' in Sound of Music come
to that).
Ah, the sexual tension in the Landler scene ... you could cut it
with a knife.
Dean
And
Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
I can just hear Dick Clark's kids giving it a 10, because it has a
beat and you can dance to it.
(Probably dating myself)
From discussions I've had mith my nieces and nephews and their
contemporaries, most of the music fans now want the same thing they
wanted
On 1/29/06, Cecil Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
just wondering---
Why is it that when I view at 75% the rulers have inches that are correct,
but at 100% view inches are one and five-eighths long? It's obvious the
length is relative to view, but one would expect an inch to be the right
length
ah... makes sense now. Doh!
Cecil
It's all a function of your monitor size and screen resolution. The
rulers you see in Finale are actually a certain number of *pixels*
wide. If you've got a 19 monitor at 1280x960 resolution, a ruler
inch at 100% is smaller than an actual inch.
I'm not sure why anyone
thinks that public posts on that subject could be helpful under any
circumstances.
Because the posts are public, you know that everyone else knows that the
posts have been made and that, whether they agree with them or not [1], most
will be noting the tone of your
At 4:29 PM -0800 1/29/06, Carl Dershem wrote:
I rarely go to pop concerts either, because of screaming lunatics
(both on- and off-stage), high prices, and generally not great
music. Same goes for 'big ticket' musicals.
An invitation: The 15th annual Summer Musical production in
Blacksburg,
At 8:12 PM -0500 1/29/06, Raymond Horton wrote:
Damn the plain text formatting that ruined my ever-so-thoughtful
reply! I'm reposting it with the extra spaces that are (sometimes,
but not always) necessary for my posts to look like I want them.
(When I get a minute I'll explore the options in
John Howell wrote:
At 4:29 PM -0800 1/29/06, Carl Dershem wrote:
I rarely go to pop concerts either, because of screaming lunatics
(both on- and off-stage), high prices, and generally not great music.
Same goes for 'big ticket' musicals.
An invitation: The 15th annual Summer Musical
At 5:24 PM -0800 1/29/06, Brennon Bortz wrote:
John,
Would you point me in the direction of this OrchestraList? I'd really
appreciate it!
Thank you,
Brennon Bortz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Not sure about the protocol for subscribing. A very nice bunch of
very knowledgeable people: conductors,
Scott Amort wrote:
Thanks all, for taking the time to respond. I've been meaning to take a
look at the Ted Ross book for a while, now I've got a good excuse!
As far a taking a look at Ted Ross' book, I am certain it is still
available on CD-ROM from NPC imaging; last time I heard, it was not
Andrew:
When I read my comment
There is in the U.S. a dogmatic divide between contemporary and
classical music that just does not exist in Europe.
and your reply
I reiterate (for the third time now in this thread, so far w.o
rejoinder) that this is no longer the case in Philadelphia.
I
Well, FWIW, the orchestra+pop-rock collaborations you mention happen
all the time with the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra. In fact, I've done
the orchestrations for two of them -- one with the Klezmer
Conservatory Band and one with alt-country singer Shelby Lynne, and
I'll be doing another one
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Well, FWIW, the orchestra+pop-rock collaborations you mention
...snippage...
Not sure what, exactly, you're driving at here, though -- these
orchestral crossover projects are rarely musically satisfying for
anyone. (And, I mean, The Eagles?? Meat Loaf)
I
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