Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Aug 23, 2013 5:06 AM, "Martin Koppenhoefer" wrote: > IMHO an editor should either display these memberships and relations or not allow the modification of involved members. Doing neither is crying for trouble. I'm willing to go so far as to say any editor that doesn't is fundamentally lacking

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Hi Lester, Thanks - my fault. misread the section about 412, which refers to MEMBERS of the updated object, not to the object itself. Sorry for the confusion! regards Peter Am 25.08.2013 12:37, schrieb Lester Caine: > (remember to check address!) > Peter Wendorff wrote: If so, then sorry fo

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers

Fabian Schmidt wrote: See other thread an why there should not be a delete button! I made the same case on potlatch in the past and now the reasons are even greater. In your last 5 changesets you deleted 7 nodes. You improved the quality of the map by deleting (and adding) nodes. When you try

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

(remember to check address!) Peter Wendorff wrote: If so, then sorry for that - but is there any documentation about it? >>The API description in the wiki does not mention anything like that, so >>IMHO it's missing there, isn't it? > >They upload a new version of the object with the appropriate

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers

Am 24.08.13 schrieb Lester Caine: See other thread an why there should not be a delete button! I made the same case on potlatch in the past and now the reasons are even greater. In your last 5 changesets you deleted 7 nodes. You improved the quality of the map by deleting (and adding) nodes.

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Am 25.08.2013 11:42, schrieb Paul Norman: >> From: Peter Wendorff [mailto:wendo...@uni-paderborn.de] >>> >> If so, then sorry for that - but is there any documentation about it? >> The API description in the wiki does not mention anything like that, so >> IMHO it's missing there, isn't it? > > The

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

> From: Peter Wendorff [mailto:wendo...@uni-paderborn.de] > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 2:34 AM > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org > > Am 25.08.2013 11:11, schrieb Paul Norman: > >> From: Peter Wendorff [mailto:wendo...@uni-paderborn.de] &

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers

2013/8/25 Steve Bennett > Hi, > Just wondering what tools you use to "keep an eye on" that area? I'd > love to have a better idea of what other editors are doing in my area. > I'm using IFTTT to get an email from the rss-feeds created by Pascal Neis' new mappers service. The feed is here (ad

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Am 25.08.2013 11:11, schrieb Paul Norman: >> From: Peter Wendorff [mailto:wendo...@uni-paderborn.de] >> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 1:57 AM >> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org >> >> If you revert a deletion the old nodes aren

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013/8/25 Peter Wendorff > >> The revert tools just do a delete. > > > > I hope not! > > They roll back to the previous version of an object. I've just had to > > use that to fix a problem id created with a commit I had pushed. Revert > > rolled all the nodes back to their correct position. > > I

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

> From: Peter Wendorff [mailto:wendo...@uni-paderborn.de] > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 1:57 AM > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org > > If you revert a deletion the old nodes aren't re-used, but created as > new objects. There is no real un

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

> From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk] > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 1:17 AM > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org > > Paul Norman wrote: > >> Case 3 ... vandalism creating havoc ... this can only be correctly > >> >handl

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Am 25.08.2013 10:17, schrieb Lester Caine: > Paul Norman wrote: >>> Case 3 ... vandalism creating havoc ... this can only be correctly >>> >handled by reverting the change set ... a delete button is not the >>> right >>> >tool! >> The revert tools just do a delete. > > I hope not! > They roll back

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:36 PM, SomeoneElse wrote: > In an attempt to put some numbers to to the "errors made by new mappers" > debate, I've done a count-back of new users and editors that they use for > they area that I keep an eye on in the UK (England and bits of Wales, not > including bits th

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Paul Norman wrote: Case 3 ... vandalism creating havoc ... this can only be correctly >handled by reverting the change set ... a delete button is not the right >tool! The revert tools just do a delete. I hope not! They roll back to the previous version of an object. I've just had to use that

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

> From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk] > Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 2:00 AM > To: talk@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org > > Case 3 ... vandalism creating havoc ... this can only be correctly > handled by rev

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Am 24.08.2013 11:00, schrieb Lester Caine: > Case 1 ... better imagery shows that the location of a way is wrong ... > so move the way to the new location! Do not delete the way and and start > again from scratch. This is were 'imports' are very badly broken, and > when a new import is applied it s

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers

SomeoneElse wrote: 1) A POI added without a main tag http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/4295739963 I suspect that people are adding a "point" to a map (in this case for a shop), and are not seeing "shop" in the default list to the left or understanding that they can search. In my e

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers

John Firebaugh wrote: During the last month in this area: P2 iD JOSM Other (Wheelmap / Go Map! / POI+) Made no newbie errors34 17 3 3 Made at least one newbie error 40 16 1 3 Made more serious errors 5 0 1 0 So 45 of 79 new con

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Colin Smale wrote: What about when an object (perhaps a road or a boundary) is replaced by a better approximation? The history of the database objects is already dealt with (you can access old versions and see when it was deleted). Typically in these cases the new version gets drawn/uploaded, the

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

What about when an object (perhaps a road or a boundary) is replaced by a better approximation? The history of the database objects is already dealt with (you can access old versions and see when it was deleted). Typically in these cases the new version gets drawn/uploaded, the tags are copied ov

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > Sometimes it almost looks like some people here are afraid of new users. +1 We also have to see "deletions" as positive contributions "a priori" when it is really fixing something (e.g. removing an obsolete POI). Only intentional deletions are positive c

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 4:45 AM, Pieren wrote: > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Ben Abelshausen > wrote: > > Sometimes it almost looks like some people here are afraid of new users. > > +1 > We also have to see "deletions" as positive contributions "a priori" > when it is really fixing somethi

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Il giorno 23/ago/2013, alle ore 10:17, Frederik Ramm ha scritto: > Frankly I am quite happy that we have, in JOSM, an editor that, while free > for everyone to try out, does target the more demanding users, and can > therefor afford to be a little more demanding itself. An editor where as a

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

+1 And don't forget JOSM basic and expert modes... which are already providing an intermediate step between P2/iD dans the full featured JOSM. +1 also to make iD the default editor on osm.org 2013/8/23 Frederik Ramm > Hi, > > > On 08/23/13 01:11, Paul Johnson wrote: > >> > Given the maintena

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Hi, On 08/23/13 01:11, Paul Johnson wrote: > Given the maintenance situation on P2, promoting iD seems like the only way forward. Web launch a JOSM session? As an avid JOSM user and former member of the JOSM programming team I am happy to see that JOSM is thriving. Making the default "edi

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Aug 17, 2013 12:33 AM, "Bryce Nesbitt" wrote: > Given the maintenance situation on P2, promoting iD seems like the only way forward. Web launch a JOSM session? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers

Thanks so much for running those numbers! Actual data is helpful in a conversation that has contained quite a few assumptions. (Continuing the assumption trend...) Anecdotally, as someone who only became an active editor last year, I found P2 more accessible than JOSM as a new contributor. I had a

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers

Il giorno 21/ago/2013, alle ore 20:10, John Firebaugh ha scritto: > So 45 of 79 new contributors (57%) made errors with P2, 16 of 33 (48%) with > iD, 2 of 5 (40%) with JOSM, and 3 of 6 (50%) with other editors. While > there's no doubt a fair margin of error here, what I conclude from this i

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers

John Firebaugh wrote > Hi Andy, > > Thanks, this is great. I love having real numbers to discuss. Indeed, that is great. So thanks for the effort to produce these numbers and allow the discussion to come back to an objective debate. Those numbers speaks towards that iD is "no worse" than P2, pro

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers

Hi Andy, Thanks, this is great. I love having real numbers to discuss. On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:36 AM, SomeoneElse wrote: > Frederik Ramm wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> it has been proposed to make the newly released iD v1.1 the default >> editor on openstreetmap.org, meaning that if someone doesn't

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On 8/21/2013 11:59 AM, Johan C wrote: + 1 as well. OSM is fortunate to have the Id developers on board. Here also - I was happy to see a new mapper pop up in this lonely corner of the map and make some quality contributions. The editor on the changesets? iD , so in that case the goal of h

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

+ 1 as well. OSM is fortunate to have the Id developers on board. Let's move on with the project and go for this change with the current features and performance. I'm sure the Id developers are happy to implement new features in a next release. Cheers, Johan Op woensdag 21 augustus 2013 schreef C

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Janko Mihelić wrote: > t really is a brilliant peace of software. +1 -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Lets get back on track again, ID as default. If we stop nitpicking, I think ID has pretty much all that Potlatch has. In addition to that, it doesn't use non-free software, and is really much easier for beginners to use. For me personaly, it's much more streamlined and faster to use. Try drawing a

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Agreed. I suspect a lot of mistakes in the OSM database by new mappers would have been backed out by them, could they figure out how to do so. Pieren wrote: > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:05 AM, Bryce Nesbitt > wrote: > > > In regards to mistakes: I think it clear that iD makes delete more > pr

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Lester Caine wrote: I've given it another try, but the style sheet is definitely not to my liking when working on data around here. I prefer the cleaner style of P2. http://lsces.co.uk/fisheye/view.php?gallery_id=78 to try and explain what I'm talking about ... This was the best contrast I cou

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Imagine something we could se as "co-mapping"... - some chat space (with other mappers nearby or using same language) - a way to share the area you're mapping with someone else who could help you 2013/8/21 Pieren > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Ben Abelshausen > wrote: > > Sometimes it alm

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

I love iD, thank you for all the hard work. I say put it live now. I have 2mb internet. It's "super" fast by Indonesian standards. That's where I live. I worry about the speed. I wish offline tiles were easier. I wish a lot of things, but I am glad for iD. One note about the test site: http://

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Ben Abelshausen wrote: > Sometimes it almost looks like some people here are afraid of new users. +1 We also have to see "deletions" as positive contributions "a priori" when it is really fixing something (e.g. removing an obsolete POI). > A better way of prevent

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Ben Abelshausen wrote: Sometimes it almost looks like some people here are afraid of new users. I still think that the general process for new users is not the easiest ... I think it is correct to assume that they will make mistakes in the beginning but also that they join the project to add n

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Sometimes it almost looks like some people here are afraid of new users. I think it is correct to assume that they will make mistakes in the beginning but also that they join the project to add new data. If they grow to be seasoned mappers the benefits of having new users will outweigh the inconve

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer > apples and pears, deleting an article in WP is much harder and no one can do > it alone, we're not discussing the deletion of a tag but the deletion of a > complete object including its history (they remain in the db but finding them > get

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

> What I deeply regret is that OSM website still > does not offer to everyone, including newcomers, a fast and easy way > to revert an edit once it is saved. Work is under way. Please stay tuned an have an eye on the workshop "The geometry and data of change" at the SOTM. In more detail: As oppos

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Lester Caine wrote: > A better handling > of the SAVE cycle might suffice in a lot of cases, rather than a pop-up for > each delete? So many nodes will be deleted from the live map ... did you > really mean to do that? I think we speak here about newcomers delet

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Il giorno 21/ago/2013, alle ore 11:44, Pieren ha scritto: >> In regards to mistakes: I think it clear that iD makes delete more prominent >> and easy to hit than P2, and misses opportunities to have better delete >> workflows. > > I don't see this as a problem. Deleting is equally important as

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Pieren wrote: In regards to mistakes: I think it clear that iD makes delete more prominent >and easy to hit than P2, and misses opportunities to have better delete >workflows. I don't see this as a problem. Deleting is equally important as inserting or moving objects in any editor. When you ed

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:05 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > In regards to mistakes: I think it clear that iD makes delete more prominent > and easy to hit than P2, and misses opportunities to have better delete > workflows. I don't see this as a problem. Deleting is equally important as inserting or

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Bryce, On 08/21/2013 01:05 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: iD raises the bar, as should any project that wholesale replaces another. Instead the question should be "what achievable workflows have a shot at helping starting mappers turn into quality repeat mappers"? You seem to be arguing that iD woul

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Given that we're in the process of launching iD, we need to set some basic guidelines so that this conversation actually results in launching iD rather than continues to blue-sky and OT. Thus, for something like 'is iD dangerous to use', it cannot be a question of 'what's the most wonderful way th

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Tom MacWright wrote: > In this case and others, we should keep in mind whether P2 or JOSM have > safer or smarter behavior. Would they 'notice' that this new road segment > has meaning? Put another way: iD will never prevent all mistakes, but does > it prevent les

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013/8/20 Tom MacWright > In this case and others, we should keep in mind whether P2 or JOSM have > safer or smarter behavior. Would they 'notice' that this new road segment > has meaning? Put another way: iD will never prevent all mistakes, but does > it prevent less than P2 and co? (in this cas

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

In this case and others, we should keep in mind whether P2 or JOSM have safer or smarter behavior. Would they 'notice' that this new road segment has meaning? Put another way: iD will never prevent all mistakes, but does it prevent less than P2 and co? (in this case, I think the answer is "no") O

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > It has been claimed often that "iD damages relations". Can we somehow > substantiate that claim? > > Could anyone provide a detailed description of a non-esoteric use case > that involves > * a kind (and structure) of relation that is very

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 08:59:28AM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > it has been proposed to make the newly released iD v1.1 the default > editor on openstreetmap.org, meaning that if someone doesn't explicitly > chose an editor they will open iD instead of Potlatch. I say go for it, from

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

iD has a wonderful 'tutorial mode', as well as documentation that explains, in detail, how to add POIs and do other actions. Given that iD is not Potlatch, the ways you do these things is not the same as Potlatch, but new users will not have used Potlatch and will use the tutorial to learn the edit

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers

Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, it has been proposed to make the newly released iD v1.1 the default editor on openstreetmap.org, meaning that if someone doesn't explicitly chose an editor they will open iD instead of Potlatch. In an attempt to put some numbers to to the "errors made by new mapp

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Il giorno 19/ago/2013, alle ore 23:44, John Firebaugh ha scritto: > Well, we could try sending them polite emails, welcoming them to the > community, expressing appreciations for their contributions, and > constructively suggesting how to improve their future edits. personally I do this, a

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

, 2013 3:13 PM To: Toby Murray Cc: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org Thanks for that tip. Although it would be so much easier if it hadn't been remove from the list. Dave F. ___ talk mailing list

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Lester Caine wrote: people seem to think that all these nice new wizbangs are progress such as that informationless curved pallet Me again ... *NOW* I'm getting icons on the curved pallet! That was blank while I was playing earlier ... did I just happen to hit something to enable them? Only ha

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Lester Caine wrote: NO ... I'm not finding this an improvement ... P2 has it's faults, but at least it IS usable for the quick editing. Id needs you to know a lot more already to be able to add the sort of simple stuff a novice user will be looking at first :( Add the P2 menus in place of the lim

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Frederik Ramm remote.org> writes: > > (It would be cool if the "make square" tool would reject the making > square of very un-square things like roundabouts, but all our other > editors will happily square a circle for you so it would be a bit unfair > to demand different from iD I think.)

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Kai Krueger wrote: Toby Murray-2 wrote >We aren't trying to make The Perfect Editor here. We are trying to replace >an aging editor with something more current. Let us not make perfection the >enemy of progress. Although a perfect editor would of course be nice, it isn't really achievable so

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Hi, > 4. There are concerns that iD (and thus osm.org ) will > promote Facebook and Twitter, over other social networks. The problem I have with those big share buttons is not that they promote Facebook or Twitter over G+ or other sites but that the (hopefully soon default) e

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Hi, Since everybody is pilling onto this, here is my 2 cents. I find the P2 editor completely unusable, it is too slow, its is very hard to use, and requires me to enable a completely insecure plugin to run. I would not be involved in the project if I did not discover JOSM shortly after starting.

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Toby Murray-2 wrote > We aren't trying to make The Perfect Editor here. We are trying to > replace > an aging editor with something more current. Let us not make perfection > the > enemy of progress. Although a perfect editor would of course be nice, it isn't really achievable so yes, we don't w

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

brycenesbitt wrote >5. There are concerns that iD makes deletion of features more prominent >in the UI, compared to prior editors. In all this discussion if the delete feature, or rectanglify is too prominent, I always wonder why people don't just undo the accidental mistake? Even as an "e

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > It has been claimed often that "iD damages relations". Can we somehow > substantiate that claim? > > Could anyone provide a detailed description of a non-esoteric use case > that involves > > * a kind (and structure) of relation that is ver

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On 20 August 2013 07:57, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > I think one shouldn't be religious about warnings/questions/popup messages >> - sure it's a UI challenge to do them well but simply not doing them at >> all, ever, doesn't automatically mean you have a good UI. However, a pop-up >> message every t

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

We aren't trying to make The Perfect Editor here. We are trying to replace an aging editor with something more current. Let us not make perfection the enemy of progress. Of course there are still improvements to be made but iD is definitely a fantastic bit of code. We can keep bikeshedding it unti

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Thank you for summarizing, Bryce. I'll comment specifically from the perspective of making iD default, which means in essence, making sure that we're in critical features on par with Potlatch 2. To have a constructive discussion we'll need to stay on topic. On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Bryce

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > --> Going off on a tangent here and leaving the scope of immediate iD > improvements - someone else has posted that a while ago in a different > discussion. Maybe we are far too obsessed with trying to make sure nothing > is ever broken in a

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Nop, I'm referring to the delete button but also to the make-square, make-round and rotate options. You do not need these to draw streets on top of tracks or aerial imagery, which is the basic start of mapping. Quite a few people start with tracing buildings nowadays, a task for which this fu

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:59 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > it has been proposed to make the newly released iD v1.1 the default editor > on openstreetmap.org, meaning that if someone doesn't explicitly chose an > editor they will open iD instead of Potlatch. To try and summarize key points,

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:01 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > with that approach (letting the users incidentally damage turn > restrictions or other relations without warning by deleting members or > combining them in a harmful way ) new users will get even more anxious as > they will get mailed

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 5:27 PM, NopMap wrote: > I still see very bad performance in Firefox. I noticed that editing has > been > limited to zoom 16 and higher which is a very crude way to limit the data > displayed. But it also makes orientation very difficult when you have to > move around. Eve

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Hi! I have just worked through all the previous posts here and experimented with the test instance in my home turf. The short anwer is: No, I do not believe that ID is in a state to make it the default editor, especially not to welcome newbies. The long answer: I still see very bad performance i

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Hi, On 19.08.2013 15:01, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: with that approach (letting the users incidentally damage turn restrictions or other relations without warning by deleting members or combining them in a harmful way ) It has been claimed often that "iD damages relations". Can we somehow s

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Back to the original question about iD being the default editor: Originally at least part of the thinking behind iD was to have a newbie-friendly editor [0]. As seen before and in this thread, more advanced users want to keep adding functionality, which will tend to make it less simple and friend

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

2013/8/19 Martin Koppenhoefer > > > Relations are fragile and if they are almost hidden for the mapper a > warning should be the minimal precaution (or alternatively don't let iD > users do these kind of edits where relations are involved and would be > damaged). > A turn restriction issue was o

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: As has been discussed before, we are not planning to add intrusive "Are you sure?" warnings to iD. Such second-guessing disrupts legitimate workflows and turns away new users, who typically already feel anxiety about doing something wrong. with that approach (lettin

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Il giorno 18/ago/2013, alle ore 19:04, John Firebaugh ha scritto: > As has been discussed before, we are not planning to add intrusive "Are you > sure?" warnings to iD. Such second-guessing disrupts legitimate workflows and > turns away new users, who typically already feel anxiety about doi

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:04 AM, John Firebaugh wrote: > iD 1.1 displays relationship memberships in the sidebar much like P2 does. > We plan to add additional functionality (e.g. highlighting routes on the > map, visual rendering of turn restrictions) in future versions, but feel > that 1.1 make

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > But perhaps most critically of all, before iD becomes the default, are the > issues of damaging relations and "oneway=yes" tagged ways: > https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues/1461 > https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues/299 > iD 1.1 displa

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Pieren, we are discussing whether or not to make iD the default editor. While you are welcome to hold your own opinions regarding services such as Facebook and Twitter, the material point that you raised by mentioning them is whether they add to or harm the project. I haven't heard you mention an

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Tom MacWright wrote: > > Please, do not offer a delete function that prominent ! > > This has come up before. Where should this action button move? Or should > there be an alert message? How to resolve this with pro users who get angry > with how hidden or alert-m

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 11:37 PM, Kathleen Danielson wrote: > I actually love the social features in iD. It is strange to see that some are trying to escape from google maps controling (geo)data just to fall down immediatly to other companies controling data (privacy) > you could have and s

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

> And most of newcomers do small changes for "a try". If we're going to continue to assume that newcomers are dumb and destructive, disabling new user signups would do the trick better than subtly judging them and handicapping applications that empower them. > But I was extremetely surprise to se

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

I actually love the social features in iD. I like being able to share on Facebook that I've just edited my hometown. I think it's a great way to start conversations around OSM and share an interest of mine with my friends, as well as raise general awareness of the project. Obviously not everyone

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Tom MacWright wrote: > > And see for yourself. > > Ok. No special warning if you delete one element. And most of newcomers do small changes for "a try". But I was extremetely surprise to see "twitter" and "facebook" after the save action. Is OSM still an open da

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Please, as I mentioned before: you can just use iD and see for yourself. There's no point in guessing what's in the box when you can just scoot over to > http://openstreetmap.us/iD/master/#background=Bing&map=20.00/-77.02271/38.90085 And see for yourself. That is to say, we already have a listin

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Maybe a short summary like: "you have added xxx objects, modified yyy object and deleted zzz objects" would help in this dialog ? 2013/8/17 Tom MacWright > iD has always had a clear message to this direction every time any user > saves: > > > "The changes you upload as tmcw

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

iD has always had a clear message to this direction every time any user saves: > "The changes you upload as tmcw will be visible on all maps that use OpenStreetMap data." https://cloudup.com/ckQTglHaKYJ On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Pieren wrote: >

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Martin Raifer wrote: > What about requiring double clicks on the delete icon I would prefere a popup window coming only the first time someone use it, saying "be carefull, you will really delete something in the real database if you save your work" or something l

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Christian Quest wrote: > Users can already decide in their profile, so we're talking more about > a "default by default"... better say "the default for newcomers" Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org htt

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Users can already decide in their profile, so we're talking more about a "default by default"... 2013/8/17 Tom MacWright : > Hi, > >> Why do we set a default editor right from the beginning and do not let the >> user decide ? > > That's a question for another thread, but the answer is likely to b

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Hi, > Why do we set a default editor right from the beginning and do not let the user decide ? That's a question for another thread, but the answer is likely to be 'reasonable defaults'. Tom On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:34 AM, colliar wrote: > Hey, > > Why do we set a default editor right from

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 04:34:37PM +0200, colliar wrote: > Why do we set a default editor right from the beginning and do not let > the user decide ? Because we don't want to make it easier, not harder for new users. And the new users don't have any information to base their decision on. Nobody is

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Hey, Why do we set a default editor right from the beginning and do not let the user decide ? I think it depends on the individual which editor fits to whom. I met several people who know how to work with GUIs but are not familiar with OSM. All had no problem getting along with JOSM right away an

Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

Please, do not offer a delete function that prominent ! This has come up before. Where should this action button move? Or should there be an alert message? How to resolve this with pro users who get angry with how hidden or alert-messaged the functionality is? Would welcome feedback here beyo

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