It is as if the map was meant to be made, not used:
Regarding all this:
A current theme in OSM development is to make editing easier, so more
people map.
Without any quibble with better design or better tools: I'd rather use
the output of hundreds of dedicated mappers, as opposed to the
+1 for use of the word muggle
On Jul 20, 2013 1:47 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Guillaume Pratte
guilla...@guillaumepratte.net wrote:
Hello,
I have been a serious user of OpenStreetMap for less than six months, and
I am proud to recently
-1 for use of the word muggle, I prefer 'potential community members'.
For instance, as a JOSM user I don't need Potlatch or Id. And they do use
up bandwidth and user support. I'm very happy though to be part of a
community that has a rich culture of users/developers/mappers with a
different
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.comwrote:
To date OSM is run by a group of mappers that caters to mappers. There is
an unlikely but burning desire to somehow turn more ordinary muggles into
mappers. It is as if the map was meant to be made, not used:
and it's
I've not followed this thread too closely, but arguably OSM is meant to be
made not used. Nobody should use OSM on a daily basis; that's what MapQuest
Open, MapBox et al are for.
Using OSM on a daily basis would be like trying to read a dictionary as
your only book: all the words are there, but
Nobody should use OSM on a daily basis
Oops, than I'm nobody. I use OSM data and one of the reference views of
this data (Mapnik on osm.org) on a daily basis. That makes me a heavy user.
And contributor, because the use of OSM data (mkgmap, thanks to the
developers of this nice program and
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Guillaume Pratte
guilla...@guillaumepratte.net wrote:
Hello,
I have been a serious user of OpenStreetMap for less than six months, and
I am proud to recently have achieved my one hundredth contribution to the
project. I really love the OpenStreetMap project,
On 12/07/2013 23:14, Simon Poole wrote:
Nobody was claiming that doing any of the above is easy, but it is
simply a question of organizing the necessary resources (mainly money).
[..]
Does the community really want to transform that to something closer to the top
heavy Wikipedia model which
On Sat, 13 Jul 2013 11:17:37 +0200, Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org
wrote:
Given the current budget, the issue of a bold foray into the web-scale
provision of consumer services would resolve itself quite easily : the
unsustainable project would soon implode and revert to its stable
state of
2013/7/13 o...@k3v.eu:
Isn't the obvious answer just to provide these services to logged-in
users and if loads of people start creating accounts just to access
free stuff them limit it to actual map contributors.
It seems crazy to argue that the project cannot provide decent services
to
Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr wrote:
It's not obvious at all, I even think this would have several negative
effects:
- rewarding contributions one way or another (like giving acces to
some additional service) may push quite bad quality contributions
(gamification for example is to be
Kevin Peat wrote:
The main problem with mappers having to rely on third party sites is they all
update with different schedules. I make a change to fix a routing problem, how
long do I have to wait before a third party site is updated; hours, days or
weeks?
This is going to become a growing
Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote
What do I think? I think code counts - good quality, robust, deployable
code. Routing will happen on the front page pretty much instantly if
someone
comes up with a top-quality UI and the resources to make it happen. So
far
they haven't. You can have
Am 11.07.2013 20:16, schrieb guillaume:
...
When I first read these sentences I was in shock. I had always assumed
that the goal of the project was to create a free and open map that
could be used by anyone.
I can't speak for Steve, I suspect that the specific issue didn't cross
his mind in
2013/7/12 Simon Poole si...@poole.ch
Now should there be a all singing and dancing map site based on OSM
data? Absolutely!
However we've expected that somebody other than (for lack of a better
term) core OSM would take the OSM data and create such a site.
MapQuest Open and the other sites
Simon Poole wrote:
As has been pointed out
before, the competitive landscape has changed a lot with google becoming
the near monopolist at least for online mapping services and maybe we
have to rethink
Cherry picking the quotes ...
Google may be the 'first choice' but they are also in many
Hi folks,
This is my quick interjection to give kudos to everyone in this
conversation for keeping what could have become a hostile or defensive
thread really constructive and forward looking. As someone who spends a lot
of time complaining about this mailing list, you've all done an excellent
This thread is very vibrant. To add to that: it's my belief that a first
time user will need a different experience from osm.org than you and me who
are experienced OSM'ers and yes, it is possible to have clickable POI's
with photo's:
The important part is to understand that the current lack of end-user
services is not because of lack of knowledge, technology or any thing
similar, but by design.
Umm, no, not really. It most certainly *is* because of the lack of
knowledge, technology, time, people and many other resources.
Am 12.07.2013 21:48, schrieb Paweł Paprota:
The important part is to understand that the current lack of end-user
services is not because of lack of knowledge, technology or any thing
similar, but by design.
Umm, no, not really. It most certainly *is* because of the lack of
knowledge,
Am 11.07.2013 05:08, schrieb Andrew Errington:
On 11 July 2013 00:27, RainerU ra...@sfr.fr wrote:
We should not start with the most difficult tasks. Lets take something easy,
which exists, but is not accessible for non-initiated people: creating a
marker
and share it by mail. This is the
Hi,
On 07/11/2013 05:08 AM, Andrew Errington wrote:
I proposed this idea to the Mapnik team, and I wrote the code to do
it, but it was rejected.
This is how silly myths like OSM hates women because they rejected a
childcare proposal get started - by leaving out 90% of something.
Please
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
Have you seen the new map UI proposed by the Mapbox team (
http://mapui.apis.dev.**openstreetmap.org/http://mapui.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/)?
If something along those lines were used, then there would be more than
Simon Poole wrote:
[ http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Zethradon/diary/19605#comments ]
While we are not very clear about it, OpenStreetMap.org is mainly
about collecting and editing our data and not about providing
services to end-users.
[
Guillaume Pratte wrote:
How can users actively contribute to the map if they need to rely
to a competitive service for their daily needs?
No-one has said that.
We want everyone to be using OpenStreetMap data. But OpenStreetMap is much
more than openstreetmap.org. Just because it isn't on
Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Guillaume Pratte wrote:
How can users actively contribute to the map if they need to rely
to a competitive service for their daily needs?
No-one has said that.
We want everyone to be using OpenStreetMap data. But OpenStreetMap is
much
more than openstreetmap.org.
2013/7/9 Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk:
Would a reasonable compromise be to provide links to projects that use osm?
+1
There could be (few) direct links from the main map page to the wiki
(e.g. get directions would link to
2013/7/9 Michael Buege mich...@buegehome.de:
Something like this?
http://osmtools.de/osmlinks/?page=mainlang=en
great tool, would be cool to have a variant of this implemented on the main map.
cheers,
Martin
___
talk mailing list
Hey folks,
This has been a really interesting and constructive conversation-- what I'm
interested in is what we do next. There are a lot of really great ideas in
here and I'd hate to see them just gathering dust.
This raises a larger issue of figuring out how we as a community move
forward when
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Kathleen Danielson
kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com wrote:
This raises a larger issue of figuring out how we as a community move
forward when good ideas are put forth. I think it's natural for a project
like this to adopt change (large or small) slowly, and to some
Am 10.07.2013 15:31, schrieb Kathleen Danielson:
Hey folks,
This has been a really interesting and constructive conversation-- what
I'm interested in is what we do next. There are a lot of really great
ideas in here and I'd hate to see them just gathering dust.
This raises a larger issue
2013/7/10 Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com:
1. Routing on osm.org
Routing on the main site is something that's been worked on for at
least a year, but I think it's been closer to two years.
It's a problem that requires some amount of developer time, as well as
sys-admin time, as well as
Martin--
Excellent questions :)
For my own part, I can't see any reason why we couldn't create all of these
resources on the wiki, if they don't exist already. I'm wondering if
there's a more official way we want to display them. To some extent this
goes back to the question of the landing page,
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 7:38 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
wrote:
Another really basic thing of integration would be to expose osm ids
for search. Right now when you search something you will get a marker
on the position, but there is no direct link to an OSM object. The
Am 09.07.2013 14:08, schrieb Michael Buege:
Zitat Immanuel Giulea:
I think a directory of all the tools available would be a great starting
point.
Something like this?
http://osmtools.de/osmlinks/?page=mainlang=en
This list is definitely too big for someone who is neither a OSM
Am 10.07.2013 15:50, schrieb Serge Wroclawski:
Let's take a two examples: 1) Routing on the main site. 2) Addressing
missing from OSM
We should not start with the most difficult tasks. Lets take something easy,
which exists, but is not accessible for non-initiated people: creating a marker
+1 to not crowding main cite with dozens of technical links. I got lost in
http://osmtools.de/osmlinks/http://osmtools.de/osmlinks/?page=mainlang=en
=)
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 10:14 PM, RainerU ra...@sfr.fr wrote:
Am 09.07.2013 14:08, schrieb Michael Buege:
Zitat Immanuel Giulea:
I think a
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 16:01:51 +0200
From: Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
To: Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com
Cc: osm talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis
Message-ID:
cabptjtd3kg9v+ds9ohjhj7_dbsuzrcshixwqjcsyexrgheh
I once read one of the OSM gurus (can't remember who, maybe it was andy
but I'm not sure) that said Render and they'll map.
Here in Rio, there's not an overwhelming number of mappers, but from those
only a fraction care to enter all POIs details such as address. I think
that this happens
I haven't read the full thread, but in reply to the initial dilemma I say:
Pah!
When I moved home to Durham, UK, I switched to OpenStreetMap being the *only
** map I used, and that all that was mapped in the city was the river and 3
roads(one of which was a motorway). I wrote a little bit about it
In general I agree with a lot of your points, and too find it still rather
difficult to use OSM on a daily basis as a map solution. Too often I find my
self having to revert to using google maps even though I do know many of the
listed third party sites. My main issues are public transport routing
On 11 July 2013 00:27, RainerU ra...@sfr.fr wrote:
Am 10.07.2013 15:50, schrieb Serge Wroclawski:
Let's take a two examples: 1) Routing on the main site. 2) Addressing
missing from OSM
We should not start with the most difficult tasks. Lets take something easy,
which exists, but is not
Guillaume
I've answered some of your questions directly on your OSM blog.
Here just some general remarks: at least since I've been involved with
OSM and likely for a whole lot longer, the tension between what we have
stated as the primary function of the main site, providing tools for our
From: Simon Poole [mailto:si...@poole.ch]
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis
There are some clear downsides to our current business model for
example our main brand is not exposed as much as if we were running
4square, MapQuest Open etc., and on the other hand
Am 09.07.2013 09:13, schrieb Paul Norman:
I believe both clickable POIs and routing are on the to-do list but have
suffered from a lack of people/time although keep in mind clickable POIs
means different things to different people.
Yes, I pointed that out in my comment to the OPs blog post.
On 2013-07-09 09:20, Simon Poole wrote:
Am 09.07.2013 09:13, schrieb Paul Norman:
I believe both clickable POIs and routing are on the to-do list but
have
suffered from a lack of people/time although keep in mind clickable
POIs
means different things to different people.
Yes, I pointed
Hi,
On 07/09/2013 09:36 AM, Maarten Deen wrote:
The problem with OSM is that with Google, Google maps is the go-to site
to get everything:
[...]
It just is less userfriendly than having it all on one site.
Then again, having all this offered by different people and not by one
big
Guillaume Pratte wrote:
I really like the OpenStreetMap project, and I dream to be able to use it as a
primary map instead of Google Maps. I feel resolving these issues would bring
me many steps closer to making that dream come true.
What do you all think? Do you also have showstoppers that
Maarten Deen wrote:
The problem with OSM is that with Google, Google maps is the go-to site to get
everything: map, routing, information. With OSM it is not. And while it is
perfectly clear that OSM has limited resources and will probably never be able
to offer all services from one portal, it
Am 09.07.2013 09:36, schrieb Maarten Deen:
.
The problem with OSM is that with Google, Google maps is the go-to
site to get everything: map, routing, information. With OSM it is not.
And while it is perfectly clear that OSM has limited resources and
will probably never be able to
Frederik Ramm wrote:
The great thing about OSM is not that we might one day have a site where you can
do everything that you can do on Google too; the great thing is that everyone
can set up their *own* site where you can do something. And shouldn't we
actively encourage that (by, perhaps,
My daughter came bouncing in to my office distracting me :-)
Am 09.07.2013 10:01, schrieb Simon Poole:
It would probably need some minimum API/UI rules but not What is tricky
is how to handle commercial
offerings (however they are financed directly or by ads), but I think
this could be
Frederik,
On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 09:53:54 +0200, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org
wrote:
...
The great thing about OSM is not that we might one day have a site
where you can do everything that you can do on Google too; the great
thing is that everyone can set up their *own* site where you can do
Am 09.07.2013 11:25, schrieb o...@k3v.eu:
My ideal solution would be to have a gmaps style integrated site mainly
as a shop window to attract new people (+ also nice to show off to the
media) ...
I'm sure you realize that even if you call it something different it is
still a duck (as in: If
Would a reasonable compromise be to provide links to projects that use osm?
Phil (trigpoint)
--
Sent from my Nokia N9
On 09/07/2013 11:30 Simon Poole wrote:
Am 09.07.2013 11:25, schrieb o...@k3v.eu:
My ideal solution would be to have a gmaps style integrated site mainly
as a shop window
I'm also very new at Openstreetmap and want to add my 2cents.
I think a directory of all the tools available would be a great starting
point.
So far I was introduced to wheelmap and overpass.
But not any of the fantastic dozens of tools available.
If those tools were allowed as layers on the
Well we do have
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_based_Services and other
lists of services (not suggesting that they are a sufficient replacement
for a integrated solution).
Simon
Am 09.07.2013 12:40, schrieb Philip Barnes:
Would a reasonable compromise be to provide links to
On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 12:30:23 +0200, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote:
Am 09.07.2013 11:25, schrieb o...@k3v.eu:
My ideal solution would be to have a gmaps style integrated site
mainly as a shop window to attract new people (+ also nice to show
off to the media) ...
I'm sure you realize that
Zitat Immanuel Giulea:
I'm also very new at Openstreetmap and want to add my 2cents.
I think a directory of all the tools available would be a great starting
point.
Something like this?
http://osmtools.de/osmlinks/?page=mainlang=en
--
Michael
Maarten Deen wrote:
The problem with OSM is that with Google, Google maps is the go-to
site to get everything: map, routing, information. With OSM it is not.
[...]
It just is less userfriendly than having it all on one site.
And that's a great business opportunity for someone... right?
Am 09.07.2013 14:04, schrieb o...@k3v.eu:
It just seems to me that if you have a shop window from 2006 a lot of
people aren't going to bother to come in and check-out the great stuff
you have in the back room.
I believe that it is well recognized that we have a slight contradiction
in the
Guillaume
We use here . Almost any system here integrated with osm.
F
On Jul 9, 2013 11:43 AM, Guillaume Pratte guilla...@guillaumepratte.net
wrote:
Hello,
I have been a serious user of OpenStreetMap for less than six months, and
I am proud to recently have achieved my one hundredth
People will stumble more easily on the OpenStreetMap site than on any of
the other sites (umap, OSRM, etc..).
Most press articles are about OpenStreetMap, so they search for that brand;
thus they will end up on the openstreetmap.org website.
The list of all services is also neatly hidden on the
Am 09.07.2013 13:57, schrieb Simon Poole:
Well we do have
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_based_Services and other
lists of services (not suggesting that they are a sufficient replacement
for a integrated solution).
and you do not find it cause it is hidden in the wiki and not
Richard Fairhurst wrote:
If even Google can't manage to be everything, openstreetmap.org certainly
can't be. Instead, we're at the heart of an ecosystem that allows people to
build their own everythings. If the OSM-based everything for you doesn't
exist yet, go out and build it.
I'm certainly
I agree. Adding more functionality to OpenStreetMap.org means that people will
use it as a go-to mapping site for things like routing and recommend it to
others.
This means they'll probably find errors/incompleteness... and they can then fix
them or tag them with a note.
I know plenty of
Am 09.07.2013 13:42, schrieb Immanuel Giulea:
...
Let's face it openstreetmap is very little known. I have contacted the
geography faculties here in Montreal to let them know an alternative
to gmaps exists.
Google has become synonymous to search engine.
Gmaps has become
Some of the issues you raise seem to be solved in e.g.
http://www.openlinkmap.org/
There are some very useful maps out there umap, openlinkmap,
geschichtskarten, hikebike map, etc. each serving a different audience. It
would be great to see all that functionality combined in 1 uber-map. Google
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