ey begin to go awry. I don't need
to say it, but Kevin is correct: let TIGER be a lesson to OSM about imports,
especially those done at very wide (national) scales in large geographic areas
like Canada or USA. They are challenging to do well, but shouldn't be
completely prohibited, but rathe
My apologies: the correct link is:
https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Talk:OpenRailwayMap/Tagging_in_North_America
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hime in to the
Talk page if this matters to you. Thanks!
SteveA
California
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lly useful, especially as wiki can (and does) give a "live status update
report" when / as one might click on such a link to see a snapshot of the
current scope of the query and the work done so far on it.
"Rule #2" on OSM's wiki page:
Have fun!
SteveA
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lly as the OT code promulgates through
mailers and layers of 'net traffic.
For example, here is the link for David's recent OT code:
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/S3A
It works.
SteveA
California
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ht
consensus-based documentation of "how we do this" IS being used) be whacked
down to where it IS realistic. One benefit from doing so is that low-hanging
fruit, on a short menu, looks that much easier to achieve towards completion,
and therefore might even make great results MORE
e of wiki,
especially during a project that is still sort of "wet cement being mixed"
(nothing wrong with that, it has to happen, it happens well now) please feel
free to modify these values as you see fit. It was meant to be a starting
point, may you continu
s être vrais", aussi bien
que les balises de OSM peuvent en tenir compte. Plusieurs balises OSM
orientées cycle peuvent, devraient et doivent coexister.
(S'il te plaît, pardonne à mon écolier français, je fais de mon mieux).
SteveA
Californie
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De plus, je recommande que la balise cycle_network soit utilisée pour
identifier le réseau particulier dont la route fait partie.
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t;Route de vélo"
(mais pas de numéro ni de réseau), soit constituent un puits sans équivoque
itinéraire cyclable connu (généralement local).
SteveA
Californie
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And several years later, here we are. I'm glad to see such a "new arrival" at
a place where good data can meet a good crowdsourced mapping database, and
furthermore, I wish the project all good luck.
SteveA
California
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nationwide building data to properly and further enter OSM. Good luck with your efforts, I genuinely mean that.Best regards,SteveA
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. One province at a time.
Pretty soon, after a few revisions of data and back-and-forths between
municipalities and province-wide data checking, you've got something. There,
you go.
SteveA
> On Mar 27, 2019, at 8:23 PM, keith hartley wrote:
>
> The patchwork of municipalities is
hough I agree that achieving consensus
on a nationwide import can be (and often is) quite difficult. I'm not trolling
here, I wish to be encouraging and have decided to go crawl back under my rock
for awhile to pursue other OSM endeavors (south of our border).
C
us results. Be heartened and courageous, be optimistic and
visionary. If or as you don't, others will (and already have). Keep up the
good work, everybody!
SteveA
(who usually doesn't like to be simply a cheerleader, though sometimes it helps)
> On Mar 2, 2019, at 4:33 PM, John Whelan wrot
ple "step up" like that, wider, open communication (here in talk-ca, the
wiki page, the wiki's Discussion tab / talk page...) is also to be encouraged.
In short, you can't cast the net too wide, so be broad in the reach to do so.
De-centralize while developing both breadth and wid
for letting us know
here that the data are ODbL and therefore OSM-compatible. (One down, perhaps a
bit more to go).
SteveA
> On Mar 2, 2019, at 2:40 PM, john whelan wrote:
>
> Why are you planning to import it?
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On Sat, Mar 2, 2019, 5:26 P
A responsible complement to this would be a link to license information, a wiki
page about these data, and perhaps an Import Plan should those data actually be
asserted to be worthy of being responsibly imported into OSM.
SteveA
California
> On Mar 2, 2019, at 2:17 PM, john whelan wr
hn, Danny, so many others here unnamed have shown leadership. Many
Canadians seem on the road to "how" and "talk amongst yourselves." Good is not
the enemy. Good are good enough as they are included with "how." Thumbs up
from here
I dislike sounding simply "like a cheerleader," here however, I am deeply
encouraged by what I see as substantial progress. This sort of discussion
bodes very well for the future of the import. Keep up the good work!
SteveA
On Feb 3, 2019, at 3:26 PM, john whelan wrote:
> I
John) peut offrir ce type de
caractérisation.
SteveA
On Feb 3, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Pierre Béland via Talk-ca
wrote:
> De tes exemples sortis du chapeau ne font pas avancer la discussion.
>
> J'attends la démonstration de John que les données d'import pour Ottawa
> représente
r encouragement to this process, it
does appear to continue here and can likely bear fruit in the near future.
Keep going! Consensus is ahead!
SteveA
On Feb 3, 2019, at 10:55 AM, john whelan wrote:
> So I suggest that you name yourself as the coordinator on the wiki page for
> Toronto
hey will
(slowly, there are a LOT!) begin to be imported into OSM. Or not.
It is a maxim of good project management which is often unstated, yet now is
the time to say it: "Lead, follow or get out of the way."
SteveA
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ort: "what's wrong with these data, how might they get fixed?" (Then
they might get imported). It doesn't seem to me to be a whole lot more
complicated a discussion than that.
SteveA
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ab ("Talk
page") of the link above seems more appropriate. (And, I'd prefer to "get out
of the way" here, if anybody were to go so far as to feel "get lost, already,
SteveA," I wouldn't be offended, though I remain watching this Import for that
grea
positively drive forward this import.
SteveA
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rt wiki, part community building, mostly discussion,
agreement and therefore, consensus.
> California Steve has put forward some proposals in the 2020 page of the wiki
> which to me amount to minor variations on what we were doing. The intent
> always was to involve local mappe
Hold" or "Stopped" status.
Nice going, Canada!
See you later,
SteveA
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ide" is something to
consider. This isn't alway black-and-white, nor easy. As we "do our best,"
things eventually emerge as correct, though it usually takes some time and
effort to get there. (Consensus does).
SteveA
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ken scheme is to tag Harriston and Palmerston as place=suburb, and
> create a place=town node for Minto.
In addition to me posting this, I'd simply say "read existing wiki
documentation," as well as "keep talking about it" (whether in private emails,
the Discussion tab on
t;don't do this in talk-ca" I am saying "there are often
more-appropriate (vs. less-appropriate) places to have a discussion to achieve
consensus." Sometimes, it makes sense to have an off-list email conversation
in a one-on-one or one-on-many fashion. Thanks.
SteveA
California
> On
with memory options
> (Xms, Xmx), or it will crap out at 3.5GB
>
> On Sat., Jan. 19, 2019, 5:13 p.m. OSM Volunteer stevea
> On Jan 19, 2019, at 2:01 PM, James wrote:
> > Is there no one that will analyse the data I've posted here?
> > https://drive.google.com/file/d
s monster.
Maybe some of ARE email thread warriors, but I am not "just" an email thread
warrior.
SteveA
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On Jan 19, 2019, at 1:22 PM, john whelan wrote:
> As a point of information the 2020 web page I think was started by Julia and
> very heavily edited by Stevea.
Sure I did, because it seriously lacked in the technical direction anybody
would need to "map going forward" in the pr
w these to the provincial level
with good communication coordinating (wiki, Discussion pages within them, Task
Manager, and talk-ca if necessary). Especially as the data are now "in the
wild," the snowball is starting to roll downhill, gathering mass and speed.
Course-correct when necessary and GROW this process as and how it is
successful. Voila, a successful, nationwide massive import (project). It will
be messy, it always is, but "deal with it" and you can get there. Good luck,
Canada. Many believe in this and want to see it succeed (me included, despite
what some might think is a sour or exasperated tone).
SteveA
California
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f it as "a solid B" which might be "passes the
class for now" without failing. And it's good we develop a "meanwhile
strategy" to take it to 99% and then 100% in the (near- or at most mid-term)
future. This isn't outrageously difficult, though it does take patience and
The thread link is:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2019-January/005878.html
SteveA
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(Again). This starts with good, open communication. Nothing less will do, or
you consign your project to a whispered hope upon the wind, and that won't do
it.
SteveA
California
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c, je choisis de partager un "lien de partage OT:"
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/DrG
Good luck / bonne chance,
SteveA
California
> As Overpass Turbo allows named area geocoding, try this:
> Comme Overpass Turbo permet le géocodage de zone nommée, essayez ceci:
>
> [out:x
codeArea:Quebec}}->.searchArea;
(
way["service"="emergency_access"](area.searchArea);
);
out meta;
>;
out meta qt;
You can modify what is inside the "way" part of the query any way you like.
Vous pouvez modifier le contenu de la partie "way" de la req
yes, I do know that "you catch more flies with honey than you do with
vinegar." (No, that isn't a slight at calling anybody "flies," rather a saying
that means "positive encouragement works much better than throwing rocks").
SteveA
California
__
dataset, to do so would be
overwhelming) which overlap with the "official datasets" will be conflated.
That is a critical step.
SteveA
California
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chiers de formes de construction
sont déjà téléchargées vers OSM, à quelques rares exceptions près ou lorsqu'un
très faible pourcentage de les bâtiments existants ne diffèrent que d'un mètre
ou deux. Tout plan d'importation doit tenir compte de la manière dont ces
données seront regroupées.
Cordialement
dicated
and high-skills leadership within the crowd and directly supporting these
(usually quite few) people, enabling them with the ability to slightly modify
rules, offer seminars/educational curricula or even direct towards them
carefully-identified financial support
ibes the project in general or stands on its own as a separate wiki.
But it is required.
SteveA
California
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Additionally, the greater OSM community looks forward to your Import Plan that
follows our Import Guidelines (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines ).
Regards,
SteveA
California
> On Nov 1, 2018, at 11:22 AM, John Whelan wrote:
>
> I think on the OSM side we prob
and many other sources of
advice/documentation/help are available, too.
Regards.
SteveA
California
> On Nov 1, 2018, at 9:40 AM, john whelan wrote:
> I've discussed the Open Data side with them but I think they could do with a
> bit of guidence on the tagging side. Could someone ideally m
et better. It takes
time, it takes dedication, it takes good communication, it takes people working
well together. Largely speaking (and Canada isn't large, it's HUGE!), so far,
so good.
Encouragingly,
SteveA
California
> On Sep 27, 2018, at 4:42 PM, john whelan wrote:
> Besides bus
like
that." Like learning to walk, it is a process, it isn't that hard, and it does
come naturally.
SteveA
On Sep 17, 2018, at 12:16 PM, john whelan wrote:
> Just a comment Alessandro is not a dedicated project manager but rather the
> person that the project manager reports to. Currently in a
and should continue this dialog. Please, let's do our best
to keep it civil.
SteveA
> On Sep 17, 2018, at 8:31 AM, Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN)
> wrote:
(a reply to my missive)
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Matthew, I personally thank you for sharing Alessandro's missive with talk-ca (an OSM-based list).However, Alessandro mentions "BC2020i" (and even "BC2020i-2"), initiatives which "used" (or proposed to "use") OSM as a data repository. Not wishing to rehash history about this yet again, the
nk you for your thoughts and hopefully the answers will clarify what sort
> of assistance I'm after.
You are welcome, and I'll be curious to watch what happens. As I saw your
request for feedback is to be off-list, we who are on-list (I speak f
mentation.
Have fun,
SteveA
California
> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:39 AM, john whelan wrote:
(a lot about how hard it is to query our data).
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On Sep 6, 2018, at 4:30 PM, john whelan wrote:
> The pilot project itself did manage to get a fair amount of accurate data
> into OSM. That data is still there and can be used. It was instrumental in
> supporting the HOT summit in Ottawa. It managed to raise awareness within
> local
On Sep 6, 2018, at 1:14 PM, john whelan wrote (replying
to me, stevea):
> > Hm, we tried to revive the wiki, a tried-and-true OSM methodology for doing
> > EXACTLY that. Is there something wrong with that idea?
>
> No this project was initiated by Stats Canada, but without
ot;
(it DOES mention Active Monitoring tools) and "what tags are of interest" (it
DOES mention Tag Standardization" and "The data that could be mapped"), then
HOW? The answer: (or at least an excellent one): use our already-built,
well-establishe
r d’OSM et
continueraient d’atteindre cet objectif.
Bonne journée,
Etienne
Californie
> On Aug 12, 2018, at 4:59 PM, James wrote:
>
> Résumé très facile: Paris ou la france ≠ Le Québec.
> Le Québec fait les chose très différente de la France.
>
> On Sun., Aug. 12, 2018, 8:36 p.m. OSM
Ayant embarqué à bord de nombreux trains à Paris (pour choisir l'une des
nombreuses villes que j'ai embarquées dans les trains), OSM aux Halles dit
"operator=RATP" et "name=RER B". Certains disent que la pure consistance est
stupide. Je dis "trouver ce qui fonctionne et rester cohérent".
e's
how WE do it" and "here's how we AND OUR NEIGHBORS do it" makes sense for
trains and bus schedules and bike routes. Or don't. These things really are
international and good dialog makes good protocols. We're simply people
talking on a mailing list; I happen to believe
eally can get the phones to connect and the trains running on time,
the ideas behind "let's agree on good language and tagging..." work, this is
simply being good neighbors. A big human family sharing a map acts like a big
human family sharing a map. We seem to continue to do t
ry good or even excellent and well-thought out and discussed, as are
developing public_transport OSM data in Canada. We're making a great map.
Thank you again for spirited and interesting discussion.
SteveA
California
> On Jul 16, 2018, at 6:06 PM, Damien Riegel wrote:
>
> On 12 July 2018 at
rgely in agreement: if you (and Canada) want to move into the direction of
putting operator=* on freight rail (and maybe sometimes passenger rail), yes,
that seems correct. If you additionally want to use the network=* key for, in
this example, STM, yes, that makes perfect sense to me as well. So
ot;Société de transport de Montréal" exactly
right too (twice), making it a good candidate value for the name=* key.
SteveA
California
> On Jul 10, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Damien Riegel wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
> I'm new to this list so please forgive me if this topic h
now "smarten up" your
phone or GPS with these named trails and very precise geo data.
OSM: what a great project!
SteveA
California
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nning JOSM on a Mac, I hope.
SteveA
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of this I'm spouting about
"Township" can be ignored, as it is effectively another word to describe an
admin_level=8 entity and you seem to be fine leaving things that way.
Regards,
SteveA
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is not a standard well kept.
And we make our point: OSM doesn't always follow its own rules. Crowdsourcing
can be messy, yet we try to improve day by day. Thanks to all for getting here!
SteveA
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Thank you, Matthew. As I said, "slavishly follow rules," no, not necessarily.
"Understand the issues," yes, through good dialog. I like what I see here, it
allows good consensus to emerge, tedious and perhaps even a bit annoying as it
may be. :-)
SteveA
On Feb 19, 2018,
-up/thumbs-down, need a
touch-up.
SteveA
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uot; to "Sainte" in the Ontario version). Some (many? most?)
"Sainte-Quelque Chose" names have hyphens, too. So, hm.
That would be my approach, as it is OSM's approach. This is OSM, yet it is
Canada, too, of course. It's not always easy or clear, is it?
SteveA
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We call it TALK-ca for a reason! We call it OPENStreetMap for a reason!
Consensus doesn't always come easy! Thanks to everyone for good discussion.
SteveA
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I stand corrected, thank you everybody.
BTW I do my best not to abbreviate thinks like "DC" for District of Columbia,
but I now better understand that "St." in many cases has now truly become the
official name, abbreviation included.
SteveA
We (the USA) has many sources which "say" St. Louis (Missouri) but OSM has
name=Saint Louis. The latter is correct in an OSM context. Following our
wiki, CAN the name be spelled without an abbreviation?" If yes, then please do
so.
Thanks,
SteveA
> On Feb 16, 2018,
f (trade off?) of "well,
let's capture the data we consider deleting by adding them into OSM using OSM
methods."
This isn't required, more like a "recycle the scraps on the cutting room floor
into nice, correct data." I do that where I can, certainly not always! Great
discussion.
SteveA
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r, Kevin Farrugia says something different.
We listen, we consider, we allow consensus to emerge and the bold pull
triggers. By that I mean "clean up what we now agree needs correcting."
OSM is so delightfully human and organic. I'm so glad we so widely speak
amongst ourselves.
SteveA
tart small, document it. That seems a fairly
low bar to step over.
Later,
SteveA
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Please see https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Key:level
SteveA
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e more difficulties.
It is getting better. (As my tone hews closer to honey than vinegar, it will
get better). Again, I've said it and said it and said it. So please: do it.
The good intentions to do so are clearly there, that is a terrific place to be
to continue onto the next steps.
SteveA
and transparent, not (exclusively) "fail fast." In fact, OSM
insists upon this.
Please install pilots in your large, jet aircraft. If it is to fly and land at
its destination (years into the future), it not only deserves, it simply must
have an experienced flight crew.
nd with maybe a eight or ten rules, (reasonable
for a parser extracting machine-dialble phone numbers, if necessary), you're
either done or at or above 99%, I'd be willing to wager (and I'm not a betting
type, though I do play poker with friends and online).
Nice job.
SteveA
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On Jan 29, 2018, at 2:35 PM, Stewart C. Russell <scr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-01-29 04:37 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:
>>
>> OSM is delighted to receive building data in Canada, truly we are.
>> (Provided they are high-quality data). I have heard the process o
Um, "dyed-in-the-wool."
Steve
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eeds the most rudimentary structure of project
management, badly, and right now. Previous experience with national-level/wide
scope projects in OSM is quite helpful, but only died-in-the-wool OSM
volunteers need "apply" (themselves).
Sincerely,
SteveA
OSM Volunteer since 2009
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OK, I've redacted Halifax changes. From four to three (municipalities with
license now "green.")
Steve
> On Jan 28, 2018, at 7:39 PM, Stewart C. Russell <scr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2018-01-28 09:16 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:
>> Halifax also looks lik
lities, now. Thanks to great teamwork for a productive
weekend, everybody. See you around.
SteveA
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And...you're off and running (better and better).
This is a process, everybody. Nobody wants to be slapping anybody around. I
like the way we've been polite and patient with each other here.
Regards,
SteveA
> On Jan 28, 2018, at 4:47 PM, Matthew Darwin <matt...@mdarwin.ca> wrote:
&g
Smiling here, thank you for wiki-ing fresher status in both wikis! (It's quite
doable, yes?).
Steve
> On Jan 28, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Matthew Darwin wrote:
> Great, seems like we have a list of 3 ok ones:
> Ottawa (approved license)
> Gatineau + Montreal (explicit approval
or... are more appropriate.
I'm saying "wiki when wiki is right."
SteveA
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erstanding up and down our wiki, toolchains, processes, lines of
communication, etc. A sort of thing that is done on a talk page and via wikis.
It appears to be a national conversation.
Steady ahead.
SteveA
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towards
Open Data with the culture of OSM. We have made great progress, but in my
opinion, only in limited contexts and suffering from "stove-piped"
communication blockages. This deeply frustrates further progress.
Please observe all of the moving parts, (perhaps marvel a bit!) and know t
right now. Please!
We seem to be getting somewhere, even if it is determining that "efforts remain
unconfused and confused on a national level." I'll take that as minor progress
— because it can be cleaned up and remedied!
Thank you to all for measured, patient and polite con
ative to move forward with these and I'm left with little to do
from here to push it forward any differently than I have been.
Thank you,
SteveA
California
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On Jan 26, 2018, at 8:12 PM, Stewart C. Russell <scr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2018-01-26 09:56 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:
>> What I did was to "back-populate" the list of "approved" (by whom? when?
>> how did these get here?) list of Canadian
main in
motion, dialog to continue and good work to continue. Including the solid task
of planting acorns so that mighty oaks may grow.
SteveA
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account) can change these to be more accurate!
Capturing ADDITIONAL status harmonization with whatever might be going on in
OSM-CA-TM is an ongoing bit of work to be done which appears to be only in the
most early of contemplation/discussion.
SteveA
California
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o toddling to walking:
excellent.
Happy weekend everyone,
SteveA
California
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nce in OSM, that sounds like a conversation, as we have here in talk-ca.
Yes, so, we're having it. Part in talk-ca, part in the wiki, part in the map,
part in email, part in the real world over coffee and talk.
More in the wiki, please? Thanks, it feels like my work is done here!
SteveA
Califo
ization and project (links, wikis,
mapping work...) connectivity (intra-OSM, as it were) goes a long way. Nice
working with you!
> Keep up the great work.
Thanks, you and BC2020 (and Canadians OSMers and all of OSM and all the little
children...), too.
SteveA
California
_
mebody" or "walled garden."
It's OSM, after all. We use other forms of communication, but on a national
project of scope this large, we can (and should and do) use the wiki.
Zippin' it closed for a while,
SteveA
California
___
seems an appropriate
place to learn that. Yet our wiki updated with those links took me about
twenty seconds of cut-and-paste.
Yeah!
SteveA
California
___
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