[marketing-dev] Re: OPENOFFICE FOR TABLETS

[Ian Lynch]

On 6 August 2011 04:50, Louis Suárez-Potts  wrote:

> hi,
>
> On 2011-08-05, at 23:47 , Andy Brown wrote:
>
> > Louis Suárez-Potts wrote:
> >> Stephen, et al.
> >> I replied privately to Mrs Evaggelou, and pointed out that though OOo
> 3.3.x is licensed LGPL v3., the trademark for same is owned by Oracle and is
> not open source or copyleft: it is copyright.
>
> But the point, as I see it, is an ODF manipulator, editor, not "OOo on a
> too small brain."
>

I run LibO currently on a Asus Eee netbook with 1 Gig of RAM, 1.6 GHz Atom
single core processor and Ubuntu/LibO. It's perfectly usable so I don't see
any reason why multi-core ARM based tablets are going to be "too small
brain". I do think that the tablet market is largely wide open for OOo/LO
but that window of opportunity could be narrow. It would be a good strategy
to get OOo to Android asap because chances are that tablet users would also
install OOo on any Windows PCs they use if it was on their tablet,
especially if they use the tablet more. If one tablet manufacturer
pre-installs OOo others will so as not to lose competitive edge. As time
goes on I can see the imperative in making OOo a better experience on
tablets rather than adding more features but in the first instance better to
just get it working.

-louis
> >
> > Andy
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[marketing-dev] Re: Resigning as Marketing Project Lead

[Ian Lynch]

Yes, thanks Peter. Hope to see you around the net in future. I must try and
get to visit China ;-)

Thanks

On 7 June 2011 14:31, Elizabeth Matthis  wrote:

> Dear Peter,
>
> You have been wonderful as leader in many capacities. Thank you for so much
> commitment over the years and for your continuing support of OOo.
>
> Best wishes for success in your new position!
> Liz
>
> p.s. I know I have been offline much of the time due to my own job issues,
> but when I caught this note I had to chime in with my thanks after all you
> have done!
>
> --- Peter Junge  schrieb am Mo, 6.6.2011:
>
> > Von: Peter Junge 
> > Betreff: [marketing-dev] Resigning as Marketing Project Lead
> > An: "dev@marketing" , "marcon" <
> mar...@marketing.openoffice.org>
> > Datum: Montag, 6. Juni, 2011 18:07 Uhr
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I have to resign as OOo Marketing Project Lead because a
> > new professional engagement I took several weeks ago will
> > not leave me with enough time to appropriately care about my
> > duties. Especially the stony road we're having ahead with
> > the transition of the project to the Apache Software
> > Foundation will require double efforts, hence it seems to be
> > the right moment to make this cut.
> >
> > I will continue to contribute to OOo as time allows it and
> > also continuing to moderate the mailing lists of the MP.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Peter
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[marketing-dev] Re: OpenOffice.org to become an Apache Foundation Incubator Project

[Ian Lynch]

On 2 June 2011 16:42, Gozarks  wrote:

> Hello again... and thank you (everyone) for keeping this whole
> conversation so open and dynamic. As I have been listening, one key
> question has evolved for me: Where do I fit in? This because, as
> previously noted, I am not a coder... my expertise is marketing... and
> I got involved with OOo because I LOVE the applications, am a devout
> proponent of 'openness' (in comminication, self-governance, etc.), and
> I genuinely appreciate worthwhile opportunities to contribute what I
> know in the hopes of somehow 'making the world a better place'.
>
> That said, and Bernhard having raised the topic of OOo's "large area
> of non-coding community," in context of Simon's encouragement that
> non-coders who feel they have been significant conributors to OOo
> should feel welcome to request inclusion in the Apache incubator
> project, please allow me to share the following:
>
> For starters, I do not consider myself a 'significant contributor' to
> OOo, however (and I say this with utmost respect), it seems to me that
> this is more of a 'glitch' (or a 'bug' if you will) in 'the management
> system' that has been operational in OOo.
>
> About which I rush to add that I do not see this as the 'fault' of any
> one person or group of people but more like a natural and (to some
> degree) necessary part of the process of organizational growth and
> community development, that may (once identified) be corrected and
> improved... much the same way y'all engineer 'patches' to fix bugs in
> programs.
>
> In this regard I would respectfully suggest that the 'bug' I see is
> that while OOo has a comprehensive 'marketing' community, as I am
> aware of things the vast majority of the folks who are involved with
> and make critical decisions about such projects as graphic design,
> news release authoring, website design (user interface) and the
> development of promotional strategy are not and have never worked as
> professionals in any of these fields.
>
> That is, as I am aware (and please correct me if I am wrong) most of
> the folks who are doing this 'marketing' work have vast professional
> expertise in coding and the complexities of sophisticated
> technological engineering, yet they are 'trying' to do a job
> (marketing) which requires an equally sophisticated yet substantively
> different set of 'complex engineering skills' and thus things which
> should (in terms of state-of-the-art marketing practice) be routinely
> done are unknown, trivialized or overlooked.
>
> And again respectfully, I find this especially true in terms of the
> OOo marketing community's (lack of?) a comprehensive plan to
> 'outreach' to the non-coding 'end users' of the programs. That is,
> every nuance of marketing (promotional materials, conferences, news
> releases) that I have been aware of over these past several  years has
> been dedicated to and focused on 'coders'... which I personally see as
> a major glitch because it represents to me a 'disconnect' between the
> folks who are 'creating the tool' and the folks who are 'using the
> tool' to do work... (even though ALL of you use OOo 'to do work',
> respectfully, none of us are 'typical end users'.
>
> And my major concern about this is that over the long haul the
> 'product' will no longer 'meet the needs' of the typical consumer.
>
> But then hey, like I said, I do not see myself as a significant
> contributer to OOo. Just offering a personal perspective... (((hugs)))
> ~Christine
>

Hi Christine,

I think it is more complicated. John Mcreesh constructed a very detailed
marketing plan - some would say overly so. Some marketing volunteers were
technically savvy but by no means all. Some had qualifications/experience in
marketing others none.  Some marketing initiatives worked well with no
budgets others didn't. I understand the point that over-focus on code can
lose sight of the fact that the code is not much use if no-one uses it. My
own quest has been to try and find a sustainable business model that could
generate resources for marketing because at the time there was resource from
Sun for developers but not for marketing. Things change. Under Apache I
don't see that the situation for resources for marketing will be a lot
different.
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[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community

[Ian Lynch]

> >
> > 1. TDF governance is adopted by all - in that case OOo community
> > Council etc is absorbed into TDF
> > 2. OOo CC is adopted by all - in that case TDF is absorbed into OOo CC
> > 3. A new organisation is created with a new constitution and
> > governance for both communities
> > 4. Either governance is modified in some way to take account of the
> > other 5. Each remains separate but agrees to cooperate in a sort of
> > coalition.
> >
> > Once community and project governance is resolved the duly elected
> > officers in consultation with the community can make decisions about
> > eg development priorities use of names etc.  I think until there is
> > agreement on governance with delegated power to the governing body,
> > there will always be  the potential for acrimonious disagreement
> > about every individual issue.
>
> I must say you got me confused here. :-) So let me try to
> address your 5 points, I understand you may be thinking about some
> more, but anyway that would be food for thought. Also, this is my
> opinion only, not the one of TDF.
>
> 5: this is in fact very feasible. The minimum being: "we use ODF,
> stupid!" but tighter cooperation is always good to work on.  However
> the 5 can only work or even be possible if some development force still
> exists. Which means that the Hamburg engineers would continue to get
> paid for their work.
>
> 4. that would depend what you mean by "modified in some way". We would
> much rather aggregate more contributors from OOo rather than modifying
> our governance to have one specific "OOo representative" who is not
> elected and only nominated by some strange authority.  But we do have
> an Advisory Board, maybe we could work something out there.
>
> 3. frankly that would be a waste of time. Sorry to put it bluntly, but
> the way I always saw us (all of us, here) as one community and two
> projects. Basically, most of the community went away to create
> another new project because the first one was plagued by too many
> issues and uncertainty of the future. Now the former project is in
> peril, his resources are not being ensured by its sponsor... We created
> new structure, new processes (sometimes we kept the old ones),
> precisely to fix the project, while working as one community.
>
> 2. :-)
>
> 1.  I actually have some questions about this one.  You're alluding to
> a simple integration of OOo into TDF. That is very much what already
> happened, but there are still engineers here (who don't code anymore, I
> think) and a few people who sticked to OOo (no criticism from my side
> here). In this case we could think about ways to alleviate concerns
> from the OOo community but also to communicate about what we could then
> call "unification".
>
> So to answer to your argument that we need to sort out governance first
> and then issues will be handled in due time I think I'm not so much in
> agreement with you, because I think the OOo project has come to a point
> where there are various diverging interests on the inside; I would even
> call them existential interests: there is a very skilled developers'
> workforce on one hand who might soon be looking for a job, on the other,
> there are several teams here and there, but mostly users. If you take a
> look at the size of the LibreOffice project (that's not meant for me to
> brag) I would actually say that it's got its own momentum now, while
> this project here is disagregating in its structure (but perhaps not in
> its ideas). Mixing the two governance would also be not supported by the
> LibreOffice folks.
>
> On the other hand, having some sort of representativity inside, say,
> TDF's Advisory Board might be a very good thing. So a mixture of 1 +4
> +5 could be a good way forward, while not emphasizing too much on
> governance.
>

I was careful to say in the original post that these were illustrative
examples, not specific suggestions or recommendations. There are probably
other possibilities too.

Your reply is exactly why agreement (or disagreement) on governance is
required. Without it there will be constant uncertainty and a lot of wasted
energy and that is one thing neither group can really afford.

btw, I'm speaking here as a neutral. I'm not trying to persuade anyone of
any specific governance - the examples I produced were deliberately balanced
in that respect.


> best,
> Charles.
>
> >
> > --
> > > Charles-H. Schulz
> > > Membre du Comité exécutif
> > > The Document Foundation.
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> >
> >
>
>
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[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community

[Ian Lynch]

On 26 May 2011 17:39, Charles-H. Schulz <
charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hello Ian,
>
> Le Thu, 26 May 2011 15:32:22 +0100,
> Ian Lynch  a écrit :
>
> > On 26 May 2011 15:18, Roman H. Gelbort 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > El 26/05/11 13:09, Charles-H. Schulz escribió:
> > > > But it's perhaps not very important at that stage.
> > > +1
> > >
> > > I'm sorry by mistake the focus. Is better build the new idea for OOo
> > > comunity. :-)
> > >
> >
> > How about gaining agreement on governance. That is really the most
> > significant issue since if it can be agreed most other things will
> > fall into place.
> >
>
> That does make sense, but what do you specifically mean by an agreement
> on governance?
>

If OOo and LO are to come together under one set of governance, the
constitution/rules will have to be agreed. Here are some examples NOT
specific  suggestions, simply to illustrate the point.

1. TDF governance is adopted by all - in that case OOo community Council etc
is absorbed into TDF
2. OOo CC is adopted by all - in that case TDF is absorbed into OOo CC
3. A new organisation is created with a new constitution and governance for
both communities
4. Either governance is modified in some way to take account of the other
5. Each remains separate but agrees to cooperate in a sort of coalition.

Once community and project governance is resolved the duly elected officers
in consultation with the community can make decisions about eg development
priorities use of names etc.  I think until there is agreement on governance
with delegated power to the governing body, there will always be  the
potential for acrimonious disagreement about every individual issue.

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[marketing-dev] Re: Why TDF should be the place for one united Community

[Ian Lynch]

On 26 May 2011 15:18, Roman H. Gelbort  wrote:

> El 26/05/11 13:09, Charles-H. Schulz escribió:
> > But it's perhaps not very important at that stage.
> +1
>
> I'm sorry by mistake the focus. Is better build the new idea for OOo
> comunity. :-)
>

How about gaining agreement on governance. That is really the most
significant issue since if it can be agreed most other things will fall into
place.

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[marketing-dev] Re: ping

[Ian Lynch]

One thing that can benefit TDF is the OpenOffice.org "brand". It is much
more widely known so simply on that one issue to would be best to bury
differences and work together to optimise all the possible resources in a
single direction. (This is marketing so appreciation of the importance of
building brand strength and how long that takes will no doubt be
appreciated)

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[marketing-dev] Re: New strategies for OO (new subject)

[Ian Lynch]

ually
> doing something, esp. if it's your job on the line or just about as bad,
> your effort. And I've tried, Ramon, I've tried. Doesn't mean I won't try
> again, just that I am hardly naive, hardly optimistic. But I am realistic,
> and do see the value in what we do and why it's important.
>

So maybe you are asking them the wrong questions? Making the wrong sales
proposals?


> I do think it is compelling that we work with SMBs; but I also think it is
> absolutely necessary that a) the community of OOo and LO reunite and
> reconcile, so that we can be strongly stepping into the future;


Strongly agree with that.


> and b) that IBM, Red Hat, Canonical, and even Google (as well as of course
> Novell/Attachmate) collaborate under the same roof to share the immense
> costs of making this thing they all benefit from and which even more will
> add to.
>

I'd say bring them together to develop a sustainable commercially viable
proposition and don't get bogged down in emotion like  "not for profit". Do
what will work. Machiavelli had some good points :-)



> Just my 5 cents.
>
> Let's try make OpenOffice -together with LO if possible- the most used
office suite. It would be really a pitty to stop now.

 Actually, it would be a tragedy.
>

So let's devise a business plan that will work. Just back to my Paris hotel
room after a lot of beers, red wine and Calvados so apologies if any of this
is not as I intended ;-)

>
> >
> > Ramon
>
>
> Cheers
> Louis
> >
> > Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
> >> :-)
> >>
> >> I am.
> >>
> >> My strategies are, obviously, to invoke the established
> stakeholders—IBM, Red Hat, to name but two, but also Google—in the gambit.
> But the issue is even more interesting than money alone. Much of the secret
> of OOo's sauce lies not in the recipe, which is open, but in the makers, who
> are like chefs the world round, only more so. And with Oracle's
> renunciation, they are obviously affected. How, it's not clear. But if I
> were in the team, I'd be no doubt updating my résumé—and be fending off hot
> solicitations.
> >>
> >> In short, time is of the essence.
> >>
> >> LibreOffice, TDF, do not have the full resources to continue, let alone
> advance OOo. They can differentiate it, which is to be lauded, but they have
> their own uncertainties. They do not appeal, too, to enterprises; we do.
> Enterprises can be public sector or private. They have the same concerns:
> reliability, predictability, stability, and super-good QA.
> >>
> >> That all takes money not just in the present but in the future. So,
> these are not trivial points.
> >>
> >> I've been working sub rosa because that's the way this is done. And even
> so, I've been pretty much shut out of a lot of discourse. Oracle has been
> absolutely mum about OOo's copyright and development future, though I've
> asked. They are surely in talks with the usual suspects, at least, I hope
> so. But the discussions are hardly including the OOo community—not me, at
> least, and not really any I know involved with OOo.
> >>
> >> What I'll do is what I promised earlier: write an open letter to Edward
> Screven, the Oracle VP who issued the announcement 15 April.
> >>
> >> And I also would very much appreciate it, and I think the entire OOo
> community would, too, if IBM and other stakeholders, such as Google and Red
> Hat execcs-I'll spare names—would engage the community representatives, in
> the plural or even singular, to proceed. What counts here is not my presence
> or participation per se, that's irrelevant and immaterial, but the
> continuation of OOo as that set of tools enterprises and users the world
> round expect to be there, as a community thing is.
> >>
> >> So, we are doing things. And I just wish I could speak more, or write
> more on this. I also wish I had more to speak, write, say. But you see the
> issues. They are not secret, they are not hard to comprehend, they are not
> hard to digest. We need not just the funds but the chefs, and we need not
> jus to continue status quo—that did not work, obviously—but to re-do things,
> re-set things, improve: no one liked the old logistics of power, all wanted
> change. This is our opportunity, and let's begin with the reconciliation,
> with the stakeholders, so that we can continue working on this.
> >>
> >> And one more point: OOo makes money. It makes money not just for the
> ecosystem stakeholders, like Ian, Jean, and many many others, including me,
> now—but for the stakeholders, in much t

[marketing-dev] Re: ping

[Ian Lynch]

On 18 May 2011 23:38, Louis Suarez-Potts  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 2011-05-13, at 04:39 , Ian Lynch wrote:
>
> > I know this might be a bit of an emotive topic for some, but wouldn't it
> be an idea to open up dialogue with the LibreOffice people? A split
> community was never an ideal situation from a simple logical point of view.
> Ok, there are emotional wounds to heal but talking about possibilities
> without any commitment on either side can't do any harm. Maybe this is
> already happening?
>
> Actually, Florian and I are discussing that exactly. The days of stiff
> difference are over with; were over with when Oracle renounced OOo as a
> revenue source. And in their lieu, discussions of reconciliation.
>
> To be sure, there are still personal differences. These are, to me, not
> irrelevant but ought not to stop the development of the code by the larger
> community.
>
> What counts, what makes up, what comprises that larger community is of some
> debate. We need a lot of money to develop the code. We need, that is, far
> more than LibreOffice or TDF or any single company can probably provide.
> Figure more than 10M USD/annum.  That's to develop the code, test it,
> distribute it, and move ahead into areas that go beyond the limits of
> legacy.
>
> Unfortunately, for something like OOo, a "community effort," still needs
> huge buckets of money. It's not about corporations, per se. It's about
> needing to get dedicated developers, one way or another, working on the
> code, so that it can be reliably produced, and satisfy the most demanding
> expectations.
>
> Meanwhile, I continue to drive ODF interest, and continue to represent OOo
> at ODF events; and continue to represent, as much as I can, as energetically
> as I can, to the world. I have no animus toward LibreOffice, though I do
> have my share of doubts; but my spirit is stamped with OOo, its community,
> its goal, of providing reliable and reliably, the best productivity tools
> there are to the most people.
>

This is good to hear, and if we need 10m per year lets work out strategies
to generate it.

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[marketing-dev] Re: ping

[Ian Lynch]

I know this might be a bit of an emotive topic for some, but wouldn't it be
an idea to open up dialogue with the LibreOffice people? A split community
was never an ideal situation from a simple logical point of view. Ok, there
are emotional wounds to heal but talking about possibilities without any
commitment on either side can't do any harm. Maybe this is already
happening?

On 13 May 2011 03:40, Gozarks  wrote:

> Clarification please, re: license, copyright, resources... who owns
> all this stuff now? Thanks, ~Christine
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Louis Suarez-Potts
>  wrote:
> > I would love for there to be clarity. I am not alone. The burden of
> providing that clarification, however, does not rest with us who have no
> knowledge but on those who do.
> >
> > The areas where some clarity would be useful (to put it mildly) include:
> license, ownership of copyright, developer resources, and so on and so
> forth.
> >
> > It is not even the case that other projects using OOo technology have
> that much greater insight. They do not. They may have more activity, but
> absent the energy of production, there is no production of energy.
> >
> > Louis
> >
> >
> > On 2011-05-12, at 22:17 , Peter Junge wrote:
> >
> >> On 12.05.2011 10:01, Andy Brown wrote:
> >>> Peter Junge wrote:
>  pong
> 
>  On 05/11/2011 09:02 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> > ping
> >
> > --
> > *Alexandro Colorado*
> > *OpenOffice.org* Español
> > http://es.openoffice.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Is this what we have been reduced to?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Maybe that's one of the sad conclusion. A bit more clarity about the
> >> future could certainly help ...
> >>
> >> Peter
> >> --
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[marketing-dev] Re: Interesting News

[Ian Lynch]

On 16 April 2011 04:34, Louis Suarez-Potts  wrote:

> All,
> As others have noted… well, this is interesting news.*  And it comes as
> news, indeed. It also comes unattached with any actual explication as to
> what it means in practice. And there are many questions, and I've asked my
> former colleagues some of them. The most obvious being, of course, Will
> Oracle contribute code to the development of OpenOffice.org as it has in the
> past? Right now, Oracle does virtually all of the coding for OpenOffice.org.
> The resulting code is then worked on by competing projects—either to make it
> more compatible with Microsoft Office, or to make it work with established
> frameworks, or whatever.
>
> As of now, the code is mature and powerful; it is being used by tens of
> millions and being adopted by even more every year. I am not concerned about
> the present, for OpenOffice.org addresses present needs more than
> adequately.
>
> I am, however, really interested in seeing what the future brings. And for
> that, I think we, the OpenOffice.org community, need to be bold. I envision
> a future where the tools for intellectual production are free, use open
> standards that can be widely implemented, and that are not limited to this
> or that environment but freely adaptable to a range of devices, mobile or
> not.
>
> The anchor here is the ODF, the format that transcends any particular
> implementation but which is only fully realized by the most comprehensive,
> OpenOffice.org. And the tools, such as those making up OpenOffice.org, to
> satisfy my vision, and the vision of the community, as I understand it, must
> be free and open.
>

But from a practical point of view there needs to be some sort of resource
generator to sustain development. If Oracle withdraws all the development
resource it makes it far more difficult for these aspirations to be
realised. We have concrete evidence that there is demand for OpenOffice.org
certification. We have the infrastructure to support it and we know that the
potential income to the community could easily be in the 10s of millions of
dollars.  Question is how to make it most likely that that potential can be
realised?


>
> Louis Suarez-Potts, PhD
> Community Manager
> Chair, Community Council
> OpenOffice.org
>
>
> Blog: http://ooo-speak.blogspot.com/
>
>
>




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[marketing-dev] Re: Budget for Hirano

[Ian Lynch]

On 18 March 2011 05:17, Peter Junge  wrote:

> Kazunari-san,
>
> I've been reading your blog and now I want to get your recommendation
> which organization to donate to. Some of the large international relief
> organizations are not too effective because their rate of administrative
> expenses is bad. Would be great to know an organization who ensures that
> the donations reach the victims quick and directly.
>


Same for me. Our best wishes to you Kazunari-san

>
> Best regards,
> Peter
>
> On 03/17/2011 02:03 PM, Kazunari Hirano wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I and my families are OK.
> > But very serious situation is going on.
> > Please see my blog.
> > http://openoffice.exblog.jp/
> >
> > We need your help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > khirano
> >
> > PS: I have to go out now and make a long line to get gas and fuel for
> > my heater and my car.
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Cor Nouws  wrote:
> >> Hi Alexandro,
> >>
> >> Thanks for posting this. I got no reply from khirano by mail. Well,
> let's
> >> say that in all the mess and tragedy, it is relative good news from him
> at
> >> least.
> >>
> >> Feeling sad,
> >> Cor
> >>
> >> Alexandro Colorado wrote (16-03-11 05:41)
> >>>
> >>> Hi I would like to support a donation for Hirano Kazunari, a well known
> >>> contributor of the OOo JA organization and ex community council member
> >>> who has served for this community for many years. I just got an email
> >>> about his condition, even if his city was not on the most dangerous
> >>> area, he did live close there, and at the moment he is finding himself
> >>> struggling since his house and the school where he teaches have been
> >>> very affected by this condition.
> >>>
> >>> We at the ES community are starting collecting some money to send him
> >>> but we already know it won't be enough. I encourage the rest of the OOo
> >>> community to do the same. I think this is one of the things that no
> >>> matter the condition we should step up to the situation and help out a
> >>> brother in need.
> >>>
> >>> His blog already have some posts on how to better send him the money.
> >>> You can find more information at his blog on what is needed under
> >>> Personal: http://openoffice.exblog.jp/
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> *Alexandro Colorado*
> >>> *OpenOffice.org* Español
> >>> http://es.openoffice.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>  - http://nl.libreoffice.org
> >>  - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation -
> >>
> >> --
> >> -
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> >
> >
> >
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Re: [marketing] EducOOo donated code for ARM Linux port

[Ian Lynch]

On 19 February 2011 07:41, eric b  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> For your information :
> http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=117017
>
> Linux ARM is extremely promising for the future, and imho it worth to
> improve it asap.
>

Why is MS porting Windows to ARM? - There is at least a significant chance
that as mobile technologies move up into the desktop and laptop space, ARM
designs will largely displace x86 as the standard for general purpose
computing. ARM is licensed to multiple manufacturers and is significantly
more efficient in terms of energy needed per software transaction. ARM core
designs integrate well with other chip designs eg Nvidia graphics etc. and
are low cost to manufacture. Multiple ARM cores will fit on small bits of
silicon. The ARM designers had very little money so they built something
simple and efficient. This gives it competitive advantage over x86
particularly but not only in mobile markets. Unless Intel license Atom
designs to other manufacturers and improve those designs quite a lot, they
are not going to compete in this market in the longer term. Interesting
times ahead.

Thanks,
> Eric Bachard
>
> --
> qɔᴉɹə
> Education Project: http://education.openoffice.org
> Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
> L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
> Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
>
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Re: [marketing] Updates....

[Ian Lynch]

Welcome to the world of independence :-)

PS just working on the EU bid for OOo certification which we will probably
submit through Germany.

On 11 February 2011 15:33, Benjamin Horst  wrote:

> Congrats, Louis!
>
> I look forward to working with you in your new capacity.
>
> -Ben
>
> On Feb 11, 2011, at 9:14 AM, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > On 2011-02-11, at 09:09 , Peter Junge wrote:
> >
> >> So, you are stepping into independence without becoming libre? ;-) (SCNR
> >> this pun!)
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Indeed, and I still believe that the future lies where the engine driving
> the train takes us, with the engineers tending it, and that we can see ahead
> if we work with the engineers, not with the tenders of the last car, the
> caboose. From there, you can only see the past. Been there.
> >
> > Me, I want to do the future thing.
> >
> >>
> >> Good luck,
> >> Peter
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Louis
> >>
> >> On 02/11/2011 09:58 PM, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
> >>> All,
> >>>
> >>> I've left Oracle but continue to be involved in the management and
> leadership of OpenOffice.org and continue to promote the adoption and
> interoperability of the OpenDocument Format, or ODF. The most immediate and
> obvious change in my new status is of course that I can no longer receive
> mail to my (former) Oracle alias; please be so good as to send mail to
> louis[at]openoffice.org.
> >>>
> >>> As well, it also means that I will be able to focus more on Marketing
> and regional development, as well as engaging all the distributed efforts
> forming the growing OOo and ODF ecosystems.
> >>>
> >>> And it also means that, as always, I remain attentive to what you need,
> want, desire, wish for, and will try my best to communicate those desires to
> whomever must hear them.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Louis
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Louis Suarez-Potts, PhD
> >>> Chair, Community Council
> >>> Co-Lead, Marketing (and several other)
> >>> Lead, Native Language Confederation (and others)
> >>> and for now, Community Manager
> >>> OpenOffice.org
> >>>
> >>> Blog: http://ooo-speak.blogspot.com/
> >>> -
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org
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> >>
> >
> >
> > -
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> >
>
>
> Benjamin Horst
> bho...@mac.com
> 646-464-2314 (Eastern)
> www.solidoffice.com
>
>
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Re: [marketing] OOO 3.3

[Ian Lynch]

On 31 January 2011 15:24, Rev JP Webb (Work)  wrote:

> To whom it may concern
>
> I used openoffice 3.0 but I seriously need a proper MS publisher
> replacement. Draw does not cut the mustard and Scribus is not user
> friendly.
>

Try Inkscape. For flyers, leaflets etc  - I did the colour covers for our
assessors handbook in it.

Personally I would much rather use Inkscape to do the covers and Writer for
the text inside than use a DTP program of any type. You have to learn how to
use Inkscape and GIMP together to get the best of them but for graphics,
labels etc I can't think of much they can't do pretty efficiently. If you
want turnkey wizards for layouts you are going to be disappointed but then
again, I would always want a one off individual layout rather than one which
screamed - he did this in Publisher! If you are publishing colour magazines
with irregular text flow around graphic objects on many paged multi-column
 documents then you probably need something like Quark Express not MS
Publisher in any case. Then you are into a lot of Euros ;-).

Until the open source movement comes up with something comparable to
> publisher I am afraid I will have to stick with Microsoft (as do many
> others
> I know who need a simple but effective dtp application).
>

Well it all depends on whether someone with the skills and inclination or
the funds agrees with you. Personally it doesn't bother me because I can do
all I need for my company using existing tools. What you need is to get all
those that have a need to get together and do something about it. I don't
see it as being a high priority for the OOo community because there are many
other things that are more important and there are limited resources.

Yours
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Rev Paul Webb
>
> East Molesey
>
> Surrey
>
> KT8 9DU
>
>


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Re: [marketing] training oppertunities

[Ian Lynch]

On 2 January 2011 10:53, Amal Senerath  wrote:

>  hi,
> I am Amal Senarath from Sri Lanka, work as a IT  lecturer /trainer
> /consultant including Microsoft office. but because of  third licence
> software most of the companies are struggling. so i would like to train the
> people for open office and introduce it to some companies. please assist me.
> IT WILL BE THE END OF MICROSOFT OFFICE IN SRI LANAK. PLEASE DO YOU HAVE ANY
> CERTIFIED COURSES FOR THE OPEN OFFICE


We do have qualifications based on the UK National Vocational Qualification,
the ITQ. This fits to OOo directly now. We have a meeting in Berlin in 4
weeks time to decide a strategy for further developing the certification of
OOo. We have projects in Malaysia and Kenya as well as across Europe. If you
need more information perhaps contact me off list.



> Amal Senarath
> NCC-UK, MBCS, MBA-ITS,ICDL
>
>


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[marketing] Digital Inclusion

[Ian Lynch]

A bit off topic perhaps, but I drafted a unit on Digital Inclusion at the
request of e-skills .
(e-skills is the UK Sector Skills Council for Business and IT)The idea is to
relate open source, and open systems to inclusion. The unit has the
potential to be accepted in the ITQ framework for apprenticeships etc
referenced to the European Qualifications Framework. It would probably be
useful before the next Awarding Body Forum meeting of e-skills to have some
feedback from this and other Open Source groups so I can pass that back.

A couple of simple questions.

Is a unit like this needed to raise awareness and understanding of the
growing importance of open systems and the relationship with equal
opportunities and inclusion legislation?

What modifications (if any) need to be made?

If you can spare a bit of time to look at the unit and e-mail me a brief
answer to each of the questions it would be a big help. Thanks.
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Re: [marketing] Reg about Licences

[Ian Lynch]

Yes you can install it, it is open source so you are free to do this and we
encourage you to and say thank you. If you can feedback to this list on the
number distributed this way it is very helpful to us, the more the better
:-). Thanks.

On 15 November 2010 07:25, Jayesh Patel  wrote:

> Hello Sir
>
> Myself jayesh patel from LEAD IMPORTER LLP ,
>
> WE are manufuture of Usb pen drive I want to Install your open office
> application in my all pen drive ,
>
> So please can you tell me can I install it ?
>
> Waiting for your positive reply
>
> Thank you


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Re: [marketing] Community - who and where are we? [was: Logo for 10th...]

[ian . lynch]

> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 5:16 PM,  wrote:
>
>> >   Op 9-10-2010 2:15, Bernhard Dippold schreef:
>> >> It represents all community members and therefore it represents the
>> >> community as a whole.
>> >
>> > The Community Council was elected to, and is supposed to, represent
>> the
>> > community.
>> >
>> > It does not necessarily follow that it represents the community.
>>
>> That gets us into democratic representation. Systems of democracy
>> require
>> free elections so that if the CC is not reflecting the community
>> perspective it can be voted out and a new committee established. Most
>> democratic systems have their flaws but mostly it's a matter of some
>> accountability is better than none. One of the things that should be
>> done
>>
>
> The problem of imitating 'real life' in electronic life is that these
> models
> are forced and usually creates big issues. Remember BoB trying to imitate
> a
> human habitat?

I'm not sure what BoB is. Electronic life is real life. It's just a bunch
of people sharing stuff using technology. Decisions and relationships are
human, the technology just has the capability of influencing them eg falme
wars :-)

> However the human habitat is a bit odd when it comes to structures of
> government, since governents are very anti-technology and very human prone
> to errors we fail imitating a similar structure to rule our community and
> that is our key issue.


I think we are confusing government and governance here. Democracy is not
simply related to national governments, clubs, societies and even
businesses run on democratic lines. What we are talking about is
democratic governance of the community - well a dictator could take over
but probably the community wouldn't cooperate. This is to an extent the
situation with Oracle. People can always vote with their feet (Or log off
;-) )

> Things get delayed, miss explained or missunderstand from humanerror, I
> would think that these government models are not adecuated to our current
> systems. We could automate decision making or interaction if we have
> things
> that help us to achieve this leaving most things to software as opposed to
> human.

Sure the mechanism can vary. But in the end democracy comes from the Greek
demos - by the people and Krateo - rule. Exactly how that is implemented
will vary.

>
> regards
>
>
>> in the light of the new Foundation should be a review of the
>> constitution
>> and due process in consultation with the community with a vote on a new
>> system of management with all members re-standing for election on that
>> manifesto. This also raises the issue of who is eligible to vote. Indeed
>> it raises the question of whether a FOSS project can be run
>> democratically. I would like to think so but maybe I'm deluded :-).
>>
>>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Vriendelijke groet,
>> > Simon Brouwer.
>> >
>> > | http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |
>> >
>> >
>> > -
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> -
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Alexandro Colorado*
> *OpenOffice.org* Español
> http://es.openoffice.org
>



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Re: [marketing] Community - who and where are we? [was: Logo for 10th...]

[ian . lynch]

> Hi Alex, all

Hi Bernhard,

Congratulations on a very good analysis.

OOo has needed a foundation from the outset. It was inevitable, only the
timing has been uncertain. If Oracle didn't know this they didn't do
proper due diligence.

The next question is how to optimise the resources available to the
foundation so that it is not only sustainable but becomes the definitive
focus for the development of open source office productivity tools.








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Re: [marketing] OOo 5.0: Some ideas

[ian . lynch]

> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 12:38 PM, luiz  wrote:
>> Hi Charles,
>>
>> Can you write some words about your lecture on "OOo 5.0 Ideas"?
>> Our objective is to publish them on special edition of BrOffice.org
>> Magazine. The deadline is 19/09.
>
> I was during the event and aside from what Charles can comment on
> this. The conversation basically went to think ahead on the way people
> use OOo. To not think in few 'catch up' features for OOo but to
> actually innovate and have a "PDF moment" comparing to the year OOo
> integrated the export to PDF in OOo. We need to do things that the
> competition haven't thought about doing instead of just following
> trends.

The future is mobile computing and seamless web integration. OOo lite to
run on Android handsets would be a killer, especially if it also enabled
seamless publishing of HTML5 documents.

> He did mentioned areas of innovation like mobile, cloud (but a
> different cloud), focus on the integration and also talk about how we
> can rethink some of the components like OpenOffice.org Web which is a
> "dead module". Change from an HTML editor and think more of a
> information processor, including authoring of things that you use in
> web like Blogs, etc.
>
> There was some input from Lars and Dimitri (I think) as well at the
> end of the presentation.
>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> Luiz Oliveira
>>
>> PS: We have the file (odp) and summary of your presentation at OOoCon
>>
>> -
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> OpenOffice.org Español
> http://es.openoffice.org
>
> -
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Re: [marketing] Re: [marcon] Re: [marketing] Fund request for top page renewal at ja.oo.o, Terada-san

[ian . lynch]

>
> On 2010-06-17, at 10:55 , Cor Nouws wrote:
>
>> There will be some draft for funding approval guidelines soon (..). So I
>> think that is a good moment to look at details: what can reasonably be
>> considered useful to fund.
>
> of course. for anything like this, careful scrutiny and strong argument is
> requisite.

It might be worth noting that the EU is extending projects to include
countries outside Europe and there are specific priorities for languages.
It might well be worth seeing if grants are available for translations. We
currently have an application for 300,000 Euros to support OOo
certification submitted and we will find out the result at the end of
July. Even if it is not successful we can simply apply again next year and
keep going until it is. Our current project is tangentially beneficial to
OOo because it encourages the use of Open Systems and Open Source general
productivity tools. If anyone has 10-15 minutes to spare please contribute
to our research at
http://www.edunetbg.com/limesurvey/index.php?sid=39256&lang=en%20%3E
Please copy the link to any lists/networks where you think there might be
interest.

Thanks.

Ian

>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Cor
>
> louis
> -
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>



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Re: [marketing] Open Source Survey

[ian . lynch]

http://www.edunetbg.com/limesurvey/index.php?sid=39256&lang=en%20>

Hi all, there is a survey at the above link we are using for collecting
some FOSS related data for an EU project. We have applied for a further EU
grant to support OOo certification and the info from the above survey
could help this too. So if you have time and can fill in and spread the
survey further, please do.

Thanks.

Ian Lynch



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Re: [marketing] use OO through the net

[ian . lynch]

> Hi Folks,
>
> I am wondering that providing openoffice through the internet. My idea is
> that
> - OO will be distributed to the user through syncing, such as dropbox,
> ubuntu one, etc.
> - The user will not be necessary to install it.
> - They just click on it and use it. (like USB portable applications)
>
> Since the distribution channel (syncing technology) & portable technology
> is
> already available, why couldn't we combine & allow users to use it?
>
> Looking forward to get more brainstorming ideas from you guys.

In principle, this is a very good idea. We definitely need a web version
of OOo and this seems a step in the right direction. Snag is getting
someone to do it.



>
> Regards,
>
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> ---
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Re: [marketing] Why does Microsoft fear OpenOffice.org?

[ian . lynch]

> "Rockaway Twp. Library, 61 Mount Hope Rd., is offering a new computer
> class
> on OpenOffice software. It will cover how to download the software, create
> documents and spreadsheets."
> http://www.northjersey.com/community/at_the_library/events/80325597.html
> The intro to Openoffice is a new course. Got to love that!  Unfortunately,
> they still giving MS Office classes.
>
> Happy Holidays Everyone!

Just so everyone knows, Alex, Evan, Myself and Gabriel have made a start
with the certification project. We have generic standards in place
compatible with the European Qualifications Framework and Alex and Evan
are putting OOo specific details to them. We have a meeting arranged in
Prague 30/31st January of potential partners for an EU funded project to
support development including language translations and on-line courses.


Ian





>
> Russell
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 5:06 AM, John McCreesh 
> wrote:
>
>> "Most people think that [OOo's] barely a blip on Microsoft's radar.
>> Clearly, it's far more than that, and the numbers back that up."
>> http://blogs.computerworld.com/15327/why_does_microsoft_fear_openoffice_org
>>
>> This story is now starting to gain momentum - if you are looking for a
>> topic for a New Year's blog, may I suggest this one ;-)
>>
>> John
>> --
>> John McCreesh - Marketing Project Lead - OpenOffice.org
>> Join the hundred million - http://why.openoffice.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [marketing] A different Market focus

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 07:44 +, John McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, January 30, 2009 01:16, Graham Lauder wrote:
> [snip]
> > The Obama administration is not going endorse any product. So in terms of
> > raising brand awareness such a letter would be a non event.  While the
> > Obama
> > Administration may endorse the _philosophy_ of Open Source they are not
> > going
> > to endorse specific brands and that after all is our problem.
> 
> The Obama campaign could teach us a thing or two about creating / raising
> brand awareness - "Obama" is now one of the biggest brands on the planet.

OpenOffice.org for president!

> 
> John
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Re: [marketing] Problem in using open office

[Ian Lynch]

On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 15:23 +0530, Vikram Gaur wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> while using openoffice.org 3.0 on windows platform, some problems are
> being faced:
> 
> 1.When two persons are opening same document in network both gets
> the document in writable mode.
> 
> 2.In Calc filter utility doesn't allow to filter more than 2
> rows.

Best place to bring this up is on the discuss list. I ccd it there but
you need to subscribe to that list to get the replies. 

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Re: [marketing] Re: [cd-rom] Happy New Year

[ian . lynch]

> ian.ly...@zmsl.com wrote (1-1-2009 20:32)
>>> The policy of not touching the front-page is a big mistake since it
>>> give
>>> us little to work with. Most of the communication is obscure to the
>>> user,
>>> just like the 'why' campaigns and others.
>>
>> IMHO if the marketing project means anything it should have full control
>> over what goes on the front page of the web site. After all, it is the
>> shop window for the project. The fact that the front page isn't in the
>> control of the obvious community members that take responsibility for
>> marketing says something significant about project management.
>
> John and Florian do a lot for the front page of OpenOffice.org

I'd just observer that doing stuff and control are not the same thing.

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Re: [marketing] Re: [cd-rom] Happy New Year

[ian . lynch]

> I would say the problem is a lack of concrete discussion; I'm sure
> that if someone put forward a [specific] suggestion about what they
> think would be good to have on the homepage / some other page(s) on
> the OOo website, they won't be ignored.

I'm just thinking back to a few years ago when this sort of discussion was
much more common. Nothing happened so pretty well all those involved
appear to have moved on to other things. Certainly my own anedotal
encounters with anything to do with the web site was a) there was a
massive technical barrier for anyone wanting to take part b) you could
spend ages on something only to have it vetoed by the community manager.
Even getting a wiki established took several years battle. Life is too
short for battling with such bureaucracy and I doubt many volunteers are
going to consider that a good use of their time. The solution is simply
one of delegation. Give the marketing leads control over the front page of
the web site. That is a simple decision but it requires trusting the
marketing project leads - but why have them if they can't be trusted with
some real influence? What does democracy mean in the project?



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Re: [marketing] Re: [cd-rom] Happy New Year

[ian . lynch]

> The policy of not touching the front-page is a big mistake since it give
> us little to work with. Most of the communication is obscure to the user,
> just like the 'why' campaigns and others.

IMHO if the marketing project means anything it should have full control
over what goes on the front page of the web site. After all, it is the
shop window for the project. The fact that the front page isn't in the
control of the obvious community members that take responsibility for
marketing says something significant about project management.

-- 
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Re: [marketing] Mozilla marketing brochure

[ian . lynch]

> Education project should be transversal and not centric on itself, I
> really believe in what said Shankarshan, co-ordination is more of
> function of collaboration.

Motivation of those that are committing work is also important otherwise
there is a danger that they take their resources elsewhere. Collaboration
is important but so is the freedom to provide appropriate leadership,
recognition of work and the perception of equality.

-- 
Ian


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[marketing] Re: [cd-rom] Happy New Year

[ian . lynch]

> A general message to everybody on the list to wish you all a Happy New
> Year, and thank you for your contributions to the 'cause'.
>
> Although the general economy is not in a very good state, this may - in a
> sideways direction - increase interest in OpenOffice.org and give us a
> chance to get into particularly more businesses looking to cut costings!

Perhaps we should be making this point more forcibly through the marketing
project.





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Re: [marketing] Thoughts about the help section in OOo

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2008-12-26 at 13:58 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> while many of us are digesting the turkey, I was caught by John Mc 
> Creesh's blog post "the importance of friends": 
> http://www.mealldubh.org/index.php/2008/12/21/the-importance-of-friends/
> Basically this is some results of a marketing survey about 
> OpenOffice.org Friends (and that could mean a lot for any plans on 
> social networks) seem to be our first advocates. Friends tell their 
> friends about OOo, install it on their friends' computers, etc.
> 
> But the interesting and much overlooked trend in that survey, I think, 
> is that to the question on where does anyone look for help on OOo, it's 
> not just the friend who provides the answer, but our good old OOo help 
> section, the one that is embedded with the suite. It's been around for 
> many years, but since this seems to be an important part of the user's 
> experience, I would have like to hear some thoughts on improvements, 
> ideas, and how we can better position that "feature" in our product 'mix'.

Maybe rebrand users in some way as friends. Or maybe establish the
concept of the OOo Family. Users is a bit impersonal and group empathy
and synergy are powerful agents in maintaining any affiliation. 

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Re: [marketing] [OT] Merry Xmass

[Ian Lynch]

On Wed, 2008-12-24 at 21:26 -0600, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> Hi Community,
> 
> Want to congratulate the community for their long efforts and wish them a  
> merry xmass and that they enjoy another year with OpenOffice.org with much  
> success in their life.

Hi Alex, +1
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Re: [marketing] Introduction

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 17:15 +0100, Rosana Ardila wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I wanted to introduce myself to the OpenOffice.org marketing project. I 
> will be working at Sun until the end of April, also helping with the 
> marketing for OpenOffice.org. And I want to use the time to work with 
> and in behalf of the OpenOffice.org community.
> 
> I am very interested in Free and Open Source Software in general and 
> have been using OOo for years, recommending it to everybody. So I'm glad 
> to have the opportunity now to do the same in a bigger channel.
> 
> I have an idea I would like to share with you and put to discussion. I 
> thought it would be interesting to organize a video contest for OOo. 
> Short videos (30 secs) would show what OOo and its community are, and 
> why the project is so special. Young artists, students and creative 
> community members could create great material, from their different 
> cultural perspectives.That's just a very short description, I can send 
> yo later some detailed information about a possible organization. Let me 
> know your thoughts on this.

Hi Rosana, sounds a great idea. I will publicise it on our community
site where we have upwards of 3000 school learners doing projects for
their IT qualifications. They could use such a video for their Level 2
certificates. We might also be able to offer some small prizes for the
competition. This is a bit like what we did for the Otto mascot some
years ago and I think it is about time we did something else like this.

> I am looking forward to working with you and I hope I can give you a 
> hand here :)
> 
> cheers,
> Rosana.
> 
> 
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Re: [marketing] Interesting article

[Ian Lynch]

On Thu, 2008-12-18 at 08:29 +1000, Alex Fisher wrote:
> The Register had this interesting article this morning. Appears an entire 
> high 
> school class failed an IT exam because the submitted the exam in MS Word 
> format, but the examining board doesn't accept Word documents
> 
> 
> 
> see also .
> 
> Interestingly, ODF is not listed either. Perhaps Ian can open talks with them 
> (if he hasn't already :) ).

Dida has been rather notorious for this type of thing happening. It is
rather ironic that as an exam board specialising in open systems we do
accept popular proprietary formats for the simple fact that causing this
degree of customer angst is suicide commercially. We have the advantage
of being small and flexible. We can educate without being dictatorial.
We also provide assessment on demand to suit the client so it is rather
different to the way Edexcel does it. Edexcel, perhaps feel that they
are so powerful that they don't need to take such things into account
but probably it's a consequence of being a large bureaucracy with rules
that the moderators have no discretion over. I know for a fact that
there has been massive migration to OCR nationals from Dida. OCR and
Edexcel have a massive majority share of the market for IT school exams
in England for age 16. It is one reason why we target younger children.
Using the principle of disruptive innovation, there are more potential
customers in the younger age groups and the trick is to get the price
point down to where they can participate. There is no effective
competition here and if we get them younger and earlier (including
the .doc users :-) ) there is a good chance they will stay with us as
our brand becomes stronger and they qualify earlier. So far things are
going to plan, it just takes time and patience. 

One thing that does arise is the number of e-portfolios that start with
one Drupal page with a load of MS Office files attached! The desktop
paradigm is very firmly entrenched not least in teachers. Rather than
simply failing the students we would rather inform them and their
assessors of the issue and give them an opportunity to put it right. We
are primarily interested in learning and getting them to demonstrate
that learning. We only provide exemplars using Open systems but we
acknowledge some schools have massive investment in proprietary systems
so p***ing them off by being inflexible is not how to win friends and
influence people :-) In practical terms, .doc and .xls are trivially
easy to deal with in OOo, a bigger problem would be eg .pub or
proprietary vector drawing formats.

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Re: [marketing] Microsoft ODF plans for Office 2007 SP2

[Ian Lynch]

On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 10:02 +, Richard Rothwell wrote:
> 2008/12/17 Ian Lynch :
> > On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 14:54 +0530, Vikram Gaur wrote:
> >> Web version has limited future because of bandwidth. Google will take
> >> care of that.
> >
> > That is like saying MS will take care of the desktop for us!
> >
> > At the moment there are bandwidth limitations but they will gradually
> > ease and those that go into the market early will dominate just as MS
> > has done at the desktop. We need to look further ahead if we are serious
> > about long term survival.
> >
> >> Still if we want to compete with that we can convert openoffice.org to
> >> web version.
> >
> > Question is how? Who will take responsibility for doing it? Sun has the
> > technology with Global Desktop to offer thin client access to anyone
> > through a standard web browser. Question is where the revenue can be
> > generated to fund the servers etc. MS will be doing it from advertising
> > like Google.
> 
> It may be that organisations will want to run their _own_ web based
> office suites.  That would offer security, etc.  A true FOSS web based
> office suite might well be rather popular.  It would mean that others
> could offer a hosted service in competition with the big boys - in the
> same way that Web hosting, etc is offered.

I think large hosting companies might offer it as value added to
customers. I get web mail with a choice of SquirrelMail, Horde and Cube
from my e-mail host. Why not a web hosting service that just happens to
provide web based office facilities for free? Probably needs marketing
to build a relationship with the biggest hosting providers.

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Re: [marketing] Microsoft ODF plans for Office 2007 SP2

[Ian Lynch]

On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 14:54 +0530, Vikram Gaur wrote:
> Web version has limited future because of bandwidth. Google will take
> care of that.

That is like saying MS will take care of the desktop for us!

At the moment there are bandwidth limitations but they will gradually
ease and those that go into the market early will dominate just as MS
has done at the desktop. We need to look further ahead if we are serious
about long term survival.

> Still if we want to compete with that we can convert openoffice.org to
> web version.

Question is how? Who will take responsibility for doing it? Sun has the
technology with Global Desktop to offer thin client access to anyone
through a standard web browser. Question is where the revenue can be
generated to fund the servers etc. MS will be doing it from advertising
like Google.

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Re: [marketing] Microsoft ODF plans for Office 2007 SP2

[Ian Lynch]

On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 14:11 +0530, Vikram Gaur wrote:
> We should not consider what microsoft says.
> Openoffice.org is certainly a better option now.

The question is how to get all those MS Office users to know about it.
As MS is about to launch a web version of MS Office what have we got to
compete with it? Personally I'm finding I'm using web apps more and
more. I recently did the company meeting agenda in a Drupal page because
it makes it easier to share and action points and follow up can be
entered directly into pages.

Rather than adding ever more features we should be thinking about
growing new markets. Google's on-line WP is pretty rudimentary. MS
haven't yet got established in that space yet it looks like we will be
playing catch up again.

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Re: [marketing] Article: US consumers prefer OpenOffice to Google Docs

[Ian Lynch]

On Mon, 2008-11-17 at 15:32 +0100, Cor Nouws wrote:
> US consumers prefer OpenOffice to Google Docs
> 
> http://www.itwire.com/content/view/21729/53/
> 
> "Hosted, and generally free, office applications are being touted as a 
> big threat to Microsoft's dominance of the desktop, but a survey of US 
> Internet consumers found that free desktop based office apps like 
> OpenOffice are what Microsoft should fear most. For now at least.
> ... "

Until there is an free on-line clone of MS Office :-)

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[marketing] Malaysia

[Ian Lynch]

Just back from Malaysia. They have an odf Olympiad for kids in addition
to other strategies to move the entire public sector to open systems.
OpenOffice.org has a high profile as part of the national migration
strategy.  

I have blogged it here for anyone interested in some more details.

http://www.theingots.org/community/node/6100
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Re: [marketing] Contact bizdev/developers WAS Re: [marketing] OpenOffice.org Community Mapping Project

[Ian Lynch]

On Sun, 2008-11-02 at 15:15 +0200, Lars Noodén wrote:
> Ian Lynch wrote:
> > ...Here are a few. 
> > Perceived to be controlled by Sun
> 
> Yes, however, keep in mind that much of that perception has been
> cultivated through several years of attacks from MS both directly and
> through proxy.  Case in point recent attempts to inject tainted code, or
> the ODF=OOo=Sun meme that MSFTers were pounding a few years ago
> 
> > Massive code base difficult to learn
> 
> Yes.  Needs to become more modular, which may in turn address your
> outstanding wish for smaller, faster OOo
> 
> > No progression routes for young people to learn to become developers  
> 
> There are also high barriers to entry even to otherwise simple
> activities like testing / QA and localization.

I agree with that. That is more the area where INGOTs are targeted as
realistically the Gold INGOT projects are not likely to be coding -
maybe later when we develop a Platinum INGOT and beyond but that is a
much smaller market and is not sustainable on current resources. It
takes time to move the way people work - starting sooner just means the
outcome happens sooner.

> > Weak incentives to become a developer
> > No great effort to keep volunteers that have any different views from
> > the project controllers.
> 
> Yes, but that was also when the project was more or less in isolation.
> Nowadays, you do have to be concerned about hijacking of the codebase by
> funded "volunteers"

Is that good or bad :-)

> > Until there is a systematic strategy to tackle these issues...
> 
> So yes, a strategy is needed.  That's probably something that can be
> started at the OOo conference in Beijing.

I hope so, I want OOo to succeed and get stronger. I'm in Malaysia next
week at their Government Open Source conference that happens to clash
with the OOo Conference. From what I read there is a refreshing
difference in the government attitude to ICT there compared to many so
called "developed" nations. 

> > Personally, having committed time and money to OOo in the past, this is
> > a significant reason why I now devote little time to the project. ROI is
> > too low and I can be far more effective in other aspects of the free
> > software movement. I know many previously committed volunteers that feel
> > the same way.
> 
> Same here.
> 
> Regards
> -Lars
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Re: SV: Re: [marketing] Contact bizdev/developers WAS Re: [marketing] OpenOffice.org Community Mapping Project

[Ian Lynch]

On Sun, 2008-11-02 at 14:01 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi, i meant domain developers, i.e. members of the bizdev project with domain 
> developer role. The context was clearified in a previous msg. Per

Probably the same argument applies. If you want volunteers to commit
their time, it has to be on their terms or at least terms attractive to
them which really amounts to the same thing. 

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Re: [marketing] Contact bizdev/developers WAS Re: [marketing] OpenOffice.org Community Mapping Project

[Ian Lynch]

On Sun, 2008-11-02 at 12:15 +0100, Per Eriksson wrote:
> I'd really suggest that the information is available when not using 
> JavaScript.
> 
> Talking to Louis and getting more developers is the solution if you ask me.

The problem is that there has been a shortage of developers ever since
the project began and there are never likely to be enough. What needs to
be considered are strategies to increase the developer resource other
than keep saying "we need more developers". What are the key factors
that prevent developer participation? Here are a few. 

Perceived to be controlled by Sun
Massive code base difficult to learn
No progression routes for young people to learn to become developers
Weak incentives to become a developer
No great effort to keep volunteers that have any different views from
the project controllers.

There are probably many more.

Until there is a systematic strategy to tackle these issues, I wouldn't
expect to see any change in the developer situation any time soon. (Look
at what happened with the Xara Linux project when Xara wanted to keep
control and then expected volunteers to do what it wanted.) An
openoffice.org foundation would likely make a significant strategic
difference but this has been discussed ad nauseam and there is clearly
no political will at Sun to "make it so".   

Personally, having committed time and money to OOo in the past, this is
a significant reason why I now devote little time to the project. ROI is
too low and I can be far more effective in other aspects of the free
software movement. I know many previously committed volunteers that feel
the same way.

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Re: [marketing] [Fwd: [users] Open Source software workshop]

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 21:59 +0100, Andy Loughran wrote:
> +1
> 
> I do think that Ian would be the man for the job.  The company I work 
> for (www.axiomtech.co.uk) also do talks of this type.  I've forwarded 
> the message to our company's mailing list.  We've worked with Ian 
> before, and there are some mutual connections - so hopefully we can come 
> up with a decent solution.

I am happy to do this, just depends on the exact date in February.
Wolverhampton is only 30  minutes from here.

> Regards,
> 
> Andy Loughran
> 
> Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> > I think Ian Lynch would be  great contact for this. Being just a few
> > miles from Wolverhampton. Other people that come to mind are the
> > LugRadio guys that even if they are no longer doing the podcast, Jono
> > Bacon and his crew can really put a show on how great open source is
> > for the education.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Cor Nouws <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >   
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Forwarded from the users-list >
> >>
> >>  Originele bericht 
> >> Onderwerp: [users] Open Source software workshop
> >> Datum: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:52:07 +0100
> >> Van: Mall, Sabrina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Antwoord-naar: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Aan: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have just been looking at your website and it was of interest to my
> >> organisation. IT Futures is apart of the University of Wolverhampton and
> >> we run government funded IT projects. We are currently organising
> >> events/workshops in the Midlands for micro businesses to inform them of
> >> open source software to help them with payroll, website development and
> >> customer relationship management. I am looking at booking a venue for
> >> maximum 12 delegates in the Midlands area around Feb 2009 covering those
> >> areas.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We are looking for speakers to inform our delegates of open source
> >> software in those areas and I wondered if this is something you can
> >> cater for?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sabrina Mall BA (Hons), MAIB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> IT Futures
> >>
> >> e-Business Adoption
> >>
> >> University of Wolverhampton
> >>
> >> Wulfruna Street
> >>
> >> Wolverhampton
> >>
> >> WV1 1SB
> >>
> >> Tel: 01902 518599
> >>
> >> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> Mobile: 07800 641009
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
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> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> 
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Re: [marketing] Microsoft: OpenOffice better than Google Apps

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2008-10-17 at 17:33 +0100, John McCreesh wrote:
> "Steve Ballmer has insisted that OpenOffice is a far better rival to
> Microsoft's Office than Google's applications suite"
> http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/microsoft-open-office-a-bigger-rival-than-google-apps-476243
> 
> I wonder is he one of the over two million people who have downloaded
> OpenOffice.org since we released 3.0?

Possibly not him personally but it would be inconceivable that MS would
not take notice of OOo releases in great detail.

Google apps will only become a rival if Google put a lot more effort
into the Word Processor and Presentation software. The Spreadsheet is
much the best component. If they did produce an on-line WP with most of
the facilities of Word and Writer I think they would take a significant
share of the market.  Its a shame we can't do a web version of OOo - the
only way I could think to make that work would be thin client logins
like with Sun's Global desktop from a web browser but providing that as
a free service is a tall order. It would be an interesting experiment
though :-)

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[marketing] UK Schools open source project

[Ian Lynch]

http://www.opensourceschools.org.uk/

OOo3 prominent on the front page
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Re: [marketing] [Ann] Call for donation for Education and Mac OS X porting projects

[Ian Lynch]

On Tue, 2008-09-16 at 15:44 +0200, eric b wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Several OpenOffice.org Projects have no or very limited resources,  
> like e.g. Mac OS X Aqua port and Education Project (still incubator  
> project).

There were suggestions about setting up sustainable fund raising
projects for education in the past but there has never been the will to
do it. In fact in my own case I feel I was actively discouraged so took
my "resources" to greener pastures. We are managing to sustain 5 people
now but it has been a slow and painstaking process. However, it shows it
is possible to develop a commercially viable business on open systems
for education and we are still growing.  I wish you bon chance, but
unless OOo gets more organised eg like Mozilla foundation has, I don't
hold out much hope.

> To continue the effort, like mentor students writing code for  
> OpenOffice.org project, help developers attending conferences, or pay  
> them expensive memberships for development (like Apple ADC, or iPhone  
> SDK ), or even pay one skilled developer to write some new feature,  
> they need a bit of money.
> 
> For more information, please have a look at : http:// 
> eric.bachard.free.fr/news  ( and if you need more information, feel  
> free to ask me in private )
> 
> Thank you !
> 
> Eric Bachard
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Re: [marketing] Partnership program

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 01:29 -0500, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> A few days back Florian mentioned the idea of a Marketplace for OOo. There  
> has also been some talk about a partnership program. I guess I want to  
> bring the discussion back on track.
> 
> What exactly do we need to create this program. Should bizdev be the  
> project involved. Who is part of bizdev (project lead?).

Take a look at Moodle. They have a partnership programme which gives
them a sustainable income. Moodle partners get rights to use the Moodle
name officially in return for a small cut of their business earnings.

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Re: [marketing] Training Module

[Ian Lynch]

On Sun, 2008-08-31 at 17:33 -0700, Rj ian Sevilla wrote:
> Hello guys,
> 
> Can anyone point me if there's any openoffice training modules? In english..

http://theingots.org/moodle/course/category.php?id=3

You can make an account for free. Any support in making improvements is
welcome. This course was devised by Gabriel Gurley in the USA, we just
host it so he deserves the credit. 

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Re: [marketing] Microsoft and the BBC

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2008-08-29 at 21:44 +0100, John McCreesh wrote:
> Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> > This is an awesome video by the FSF showing how much money is spent by 
> > M$ sponsored organizationson closing up the information distribution. I 
> > am sure many in this team will find this video amazing to watch and also 
> > spark similar ideas on a marketing level.
> > 
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sfQk9NXlns
> 
> :-) John

Just to say that the Open Schools Alliance and the Open Source
Consortium were instrumental in making this happen. Dr John Pugh has
been a great help with schools issues too and this combination is at
least partly responsible for the BECTA actions in favour of open
standards. I would encourage any other FOSS activists in any other
countries to seek out informed political allies. Don't expect them to
commit 100% of their time to FOSS as they will have a lot more important
issues to deal with as well, but a targeted time in specific areas can
be disproportionately effective.

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Re: [marketing] Multimedia Ads of Open Office

[Ian Lynch]

On Sat, 2008-08-02 at 01:26 -0700, Rj ian Sevilla wrote:
> Is there an available multimedia ads of Open Office? id like to play it on
> the FOSS event this coming September...

These You Tube Videos might be useful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFge2zTSN-A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55yMCYsG7o0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ--pVvbn1M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa5gPh8j9gQ



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Re: [marketing] OpenOffice.org marketing materials?

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2008-08-01 at 21:06 -0400, Yuhan Fang wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> Can anybody point me to something like a whitepaper on OpenOffice.org? 
> I'm looking for a press-ready report that evaluates OpenOffice.org as 
> a replacement for the Microsoft Office suite. Ideally, this should be 
> targeted towards the education sector. I found many websites with 
> informal reviews and comparisons, but I really need something more 
> substantial to present my case to the IT overlords at my school.

http://www.theingots.org/community/node/5480

The above is a link to web pages I'm preparing for the UK government
backed Schools Open Source Project. It is aimed at education but is
about FOSS in general rather than OOo specifically. There is a specific
bit about OOo about 75% of the way down. I think this project at some
point will fund more in-depth work on Open Source applications and OOo
would be a likely candidate.

There is also a free Moodle course on using OpenOffice.org at

http://theingots.org/moodle/course/view.php?id=11

Just log in as a guest to check it out. You need to make an account -
it's free - to do the tests. So if they say they are worried about
training or support you have an answer. We also have government
accredited qualification in Open Systems that are OpenOffice.org
friendly.
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[marketing] OOo Story to Digg

[Ian Lynch]

http://digg.com/microsoft/How_to_make_the_transition_from_MS_Office_to_Open_Office

:-)

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[marketing] Moodle course for OOo

[Ian Lynch]

Hi all,

At http://theingots.org/moodle/course/view.php?id=11

There is a Moodle course for teaching/learning Open Office. Anyone is
free to make an account and use the course and I can give edit
permission to anyone that wants to make improvements to it. You can do a
lot simply by logging on as a guest but you need an account for quizzes
etc. It's all free. The course was done by Gabriel Gurley and he has
various other OOo related downloads at www.gabrielgurley.com

Also language translations welcome. Other courses on the site support
learning about open systems and open source technologies in a
progressive and sequential way.

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Re: [marketing] Re: Marketing Open Office in libraries?

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2008-04-25 at 10:59 -0400, Anastasia Diamond-Ortiz wrote:
> Thank you for the quick responses. Am I free to create CDs for distribution
> to be public?  Are there any existing marketing materials I should know
> about?

Look on the marketing pages of the OpenOffice.org web site. Please do
make CDs for distribution from the library. That would help the project
a lot. Also take a look at www.portableapps.com. Here you can make
portable versions of OOo to go an a USB pen drive. You could have it so
visitors to the library could bring in a USB stick and set up Open
Office to run from it on any computer without having to install it.

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Re: [marketing] Marketing Open Office in libraries?

[Ian Lynch]

> There are a number of books in print, and there are a lot of materials
> available for download.
> 
> Try some of these:
> 
> http://documentation.openoffice.org/
> 
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation
> 
> http://www.learnopenoffice.org/index.htm
> 
> http://training.bytebot.net/
> 
> http://openoffice.resolvo.com/Student/studentIndex.jsp

Also

http://www.gabrielgurley.com/

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[marketing] Microsoft come unstuck in Newham

[Ian Lynch]

At least part of the deal with Newham was related to compatibility of
office software. They were persuaded away from OpenOffice.org and FOSS
generally by a last minute cut-price offer from MS.

http://digg.com/microsoft/London_council_dumps_Microsoft

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Re: [marketing] How can OOo make you money?

[Ian Lynch]

> What's missing is the connection between pure use value and all kinds of  
> sale value. That's what we've been calling the because effect. You make  
> money because of free and open code, not just with it.

What this really means is that society benefits from FOSS because it is
a fundamentally more efficient way of building global technological
value. 

> I suggest the relationship here is between foundations and the structures  
> that rest on them. You can talk about architecture and design all day, but  
> none of it will be worth anything if it doesn't sit on a strong  
> foundation. This fact does not diminish the importance of foundations.  
> Quite the opposite. Foundations are, in nearly all cases, 100% useful and  
> 0% flashy. Their job is not to augment the building, but rather to augment  
> the geology below it.

The implication is not so much for individual companies to adopt FOSS
but for governments to create the environment where FOSS can flourish. A
fundamental change in attitude to "intellectual property" which is a
pretty ephemeral concept in any case. Some examples would be 

1. To revise the patent systems to remove threats to FOSS development
and deployment

2. Provide incentives to universities and the education system to
produce useful resources as a bi-product of the learning process

3. Make it mandatory for government software projects that produce code
to license that code as FOSS.

4. Declare a firm target date say 2012, for the use of fully open
standards for communications and data structures to be mandatory for
government technologies.

5. Declare a firm target date say 2015, for all fundamental software
infrastructure such as server and desktop operating systems to be FOSS.

This would cost government very little but would have massive value in
terms of return on investment in leading change. The main snag are the
current vested interests that are fighting to maintain and even further
entrench the status quo. Note that declaring an intention to deploy FOSS
is not discriminatory. Any company can supply FOSS, develop FOSS,
support it and deploy it.

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[marketing] Another UK school taking up OOo

[Ian Lynch]

I was doing some initial INGOT training at Sandwich Technology College
UK (place where sandwiches were invented :-) ) that has 1000 computers.
They intend to migrate 1000 seats to OOo imminently. 

Just thought that another success is nice to know about :-) I think
quite a lot more schools are using OOo, it's just difficult to get exact
numbers. I think as Google docs get better known some will use them too
so some competition, although it could be that Google Docs is seen to be
complementary to OOo. I did lecture on ICT and enterprise yesterday
using Google Docs presentation and it worked well with the advantage
that the presentation can be shared immediately with the audience and
worked on collaboratively on the web. 
http://docs.google.com/Presentation?id=df399cxt_0fqfsc5cf

A publicly available web based OOo would be a killer app (or Star
Office). Maybe Sun could use Global Desktop and some dedicated servers
to provide this as a service supported by advertising like Google. That
would turn OOo/SO into a web based app with more comprehensive spec than
Google docs. All this stuff will migrate from the desktop to the web and
people are going to expect it easily accessible and free of charge.

Ian
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[marketing] School kids blogging OOo

[Ian Lynch]

Thought there might be some interest in high school kids blogging their
projects to support primary kids with OOo

http://www.theingots.org/community/blog

Taken a while but we are now getting quite a lot of new OOo users in
schools.

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[Marketing] BECTA say industry should be making it easier for schools to use free office software

[Ian Lynch]

http://news.becta.org.uk/display.cfm?cfid=1943053&cftoken=dfb63b2fe4e2aa10-60AE7EE6-D18B-168A-734FB4F648A41B15&resID=35287&page=1658&catID=1633

Useful for marketing?

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Re: [Marketing] 2008 - will it be your year?

[Ian Lynch]

On Tue, 2008-01-01 at 10:52 +, John McCreesh wrote:
> A reminder that bids to host the OpenOffice.org Annual Conference 
> (OOoCon) must be submitted by the end of January - see:
> http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=announce&msgNo=345
> 
> Is your team ready to submit its proposal now?
> 
> Wishing everyone a successful 2008 - "the year of 3"!

There doesn't seem to have been much discussion about 3.0 on the
marketing list. What are the key new attributes of 3.0 that will
accelerate market share?

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Re: [Marketing] Website Upgrade Marketing Input

[Ian Lynch]

On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 18:57 +1100, André Wyrwa wrote:
> Hei,
> 
> On Sat, 2007-12-15 at 22:00 -0800, Mihai Mazilu wrote:
> > "Don't fight the change. Use it to your advantage.
> > 
> > OpenOffice.org"
> 
> I can already see us ending up with a page that sais less about what OOo
> is than the current one. ;-)
> 
> Please, please, please, can we put all the nifty, catchy, marketingy
> phrasing AFTER the primary objective of telling people what it is we are
> talking about?
> 
> Please?
> 
> Please?

+1

> 
> About the action statements...i'm warming up, slightly. ;-)
> 
> Maybe...would it be possible to include such info as asked for above
> into the action statements?...say rather
> 
> "I'm looking for a software solution for all my office tasks."

Or a question. 

Did you know you can freely and legally download all the software you
need to run your office?

>  
> 
> than 
> 
> "I want to learn more about OpenOffice.org." 
> ?
> André.
> 
> PS: Please?

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Re: [Marketing] Two for the price of one

[Ian Lynch]

On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 08:28 +1300, Graham Lauder wrote:
> On Tuesday 04 December 2007 08:22:41 Lars Noodén wrote:
> > Many home users and even businesses may not realize that they can have
> > OOo installed along side any existing office suites.
> >
> > -Lars
> 
> 
> Hmmm, interesting concept, I like it
> 
> Being non exclusive, side by side comparison for nothing
> One gets old while the other upgrades constantly for free
> 
> Deserves some more thought.

Portableapps.com and run from a USB drive. Kids like swapping gadgets.
If they haven't disabled the USB ports on the computers at school they
can also then run ooo at school without installing anything.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Next Marketing Campaign

[Ian Lynch]

On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 21:38 +1100, Jonathon Coombes wrote:
> On 03/12/2007, at 9:22 PM, Ian Lynch wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 20:56 +1100, Jonathon Coombes wrote:
> >> On 03/12/2007, at 7:58 PM, Ian Lynch wrote:
> >> SNIP!
> >>
> >> Agreed, but in these levels the computers are not used just for
> >> computer science, but also maths, spelling, art etc. This means that
> >> you have to have a solution to address the bigger area.
> >
> > Yes, in schools nearly all teach general IT courses to all the  
> > students
> > at some point so that is the place to reach the biggest market -  
> > English
> > or maths would do too but the teachers are likely to give office
> > software less of a priority in those subjects.
> 
> Right, but IT is rather specific areas of application, some years may  
> not even cover office applications.

You only need one that does - that will hit everyone and after that it's
use in any case. But then I think the argument is stronger to go for
open systems and open standards rather than particular apps. OOo will
get taken up as a natural consequence of that in any case.

>  If we look at solutions based  
> around a range of FLOSS software, I think that we cover a much wider  
> audience than just the IT courses.

I agree with range of apps, but try going into schools and see the none
IT teachers glaze over when you talk about issues like open standards.
You have to hit the people likely to influence them first and to an
extent that is the students.

>  There is software out there for  
> all courses and this takes away the influence of what particular  
> platform is required.
> 
> >> Of course this is true, but unfortunately they don't decide what
> >> software the university uses or teaches.
> >
> > Doesn't really matter if they personally use OOo - and if 90% of
> > students were doing that it's likely to affect the university decision
> > making. Its going to be very hard to get a whole university to  
> > switch to
> > OOo from the top down. Quite often departments can make individual
> > procurement decisions so here at Birmingham the comp sci department  
> > use
> > FOSS extensively but the rest of the uni doesn't.
> 
> Obviously the universities of there are very different to the ones in  
> Australia. :)
> Here you don't get a choice, no matter how many people want it, it is  
> the choice of the lecturer or faculty as to what you are taught and  
> what is utilised. Maybe after a few years of hearing "where is OOo?"  
> all the time, they might start thinking about looking into it, but  
> that is not what makes it happen.
> 
> I agree that different departments can use different software, and  
> often the comp sci areas are more open to FOSS, but I have seen  
> universities that are totally Microsoft in the comp sci and accepting  
> of FOSS in the maths and science areas? So it is often the people in  
> charge who make the final decision, not the masses in this sense.

Quite so, but FOSS is a grass roots phenomenon, those in charge won't
change without a lot of obvious grass roots support because it's too
risky so you need a combination of both factors.

> >> If they are smart enough,
> >> they can work within the confines e.g. OOo vs MS Office documents
> >> etc, but if the university wants to teach MS Visual Basic, then no
> >> matter how many Linux stations they use, they cannot convince the
> >> university of its value.
> >
> > I think it's a lot easier to get 16 year olds in large numbers  
> > using OOo
> > than to try and get Unis to change technologies such that it has the
> > same effect on take up.
> 
> I think it would be great to see it happen, but I think you are  
> swimming upstream. It is not that it is impossible, but it seems very  
> difficult to achieve.

Well so far we have 55 paying schools in the UK and another 50 in the
pipeline and 3 EU projects started or close to it. People are now cold
calling us as the word of mouth gets round. I think the opposite is true
from swimming upstream. Now we have full government accreditation,
people are coming to us. It's taken 4 years of graft and planning and
probably around 500k in investment. If it was easy, it would have been
done by now.

> I think getting them to know it exists is the easy part - they can  
> see this through Internet, promotions, conferences etc.

Try going into schools and talking to teachers. You will find even
people in technical departments that haven't heard of OOo - I came
across such a person only on Friday. It's improving but still a long way
from 

Re: [Marketing] Next Marketing Campaign

[Ian Lynch]

On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 20:56 +1100, Jonathon Coombes wrote:
> On 03/12/2007, at 7:58 PM, Ian Lynch wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 17:45 +1100, Jonathon Coombes wrote:
> >
> >>> We need to come up with a campaign aimed at an 18 - 24 yr old
> >>> demographic
> >>> with best punch for a limited budget.
> >>>
> >>> The idea is to be ready with a pitch when or if further funds become
> >>> available.in the next quarter.
> >>
> >> I agree with Graham in regards to getting in on the new school year.
> >> One particular focus for Australia in particular is based on a new
> >> government coming in and putting forward new education policies for
> >> the coming years. A number of open source groups are combining their
> >> focus on this potential market at the moment, both at the government
> >> level and at the school level. It is currently aimed at primary and
> >> high school level,
> >
> > The advantage of doing this is that if you hit an element of  
> > mainstream
> > IT education and have a compelling argument to get it into the
> > curriculum it will affect every person in the target group. FE and HE
> > are strategically more difficult because the courses are specialist  
> > and
> > fragmented into different departments. If you target eg computer
> > science, it's a very much smaller number of people than the 5-16  
> > school
> > population.
> 
> Agreed, but in these levels the computers are not used just for  
> computer science, but also maths, spelling, art etc. This means that  
> you have to have a solution to address the bigger area.

Yes, in schools nearly all teach general IT courses to all the students
at some point so that is the place to reach the biggest market - English
or maths would do too but the teachers are likely to give office
software less of a priority in those subjects.

> Of course this is true, but unfortunately they don't decide what  
> software the university uses or teaches. 

Doesn't really matter if they personally use OOo - and if 90% of
students were doing that it's likely to affect the university decision
making. Its going to be very hard to get a whole university to switch to
OOo from the top down. Quite often departments can make individual
procurement decisions so here at Birmingham the comp sci department use
FOSS extensively but the rest of the uni doesn't.

> If they are smart enough,  
> they can work within the confines e.g. OOo vs MS Office documents  
> etc, but if the university wants to teach MS Visual Basic, then no  
> matter how many Linux stations they use, they cannot convince the  
> university of its value.

I think it's a lot easier to get 16 year olds in large numbers using OOo
than to try and get Unis to change technologies such that it has the
same effect on take up.

> I think if we can provide an environment that works on both Linux and  
> Windows (and Mac as well) then the schools will soon realise that  
> they don't need to be forced into one operating system. This can be  
> done now for a range of applications as seen in the OpenCD project  
> which provides many applications that work across the platforms and  
> are suitable for school use. The added advantage FLOSS provides is  
> that you can give the applications to the students for use at home,  
> for their parents to use, their churches etc. Rather than being  
> forced to use what the students have at home.

Agreed, but getting them to know and understand this exists is also none
trivial. Obvious to us but not obvious to the people in control and to
most of them fairly low down on their list of priorities.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Next Marketing Campaign

[Ian Lynch]

On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 17:45 +1100, Jonathon Coombes wrote:

> > We need to come up with a campaign aimed at an 18 - 24 yr old  
> > demographic
> > with best punch for a limited budget.
> >
> > The idea is to be ready with a pitch when or if further funds become
> > available.in the next quarter.
> 
> I agree with Graham in regards to getting in on the new school year.  
> One particular focus for Australia in particular is based on a new  
> government coming in and putting forward new education policies for  
> the coming years. A number of open source groups are combining their  
> focus on this potential market at the moment, both at the government  
> level and at the school level. It is currently aimed at primary and  
> high school level,

The advantage of doing this is that if you hit an element of mainstream
IT education and have a compelling argument to get it into the
curriculum it will affect every person in the target group. FE and HE
are strategically more difficult because the courses are specialist and
fragmented into different departments. If you target eg computer
science, it's a very much smaller number of people than the 5-16 school
population.

>  I am unaware of a push toward the university  
> market, but I am sure it will be complemented nicely with the overall  
> campaign direction.

Of course if you hit all 16 year olds, in a couple of years they will
all be at university.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Google Highly Open Participation Contest

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 15:26 -0600, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> I wonder if anyone from the Marketing team has aproached Google so  
> that OOo can participate in this program.
> 
> We currently need high schoolers to get introduced to the  
> OpenOffice.org community and I think we should take as much of what is  
> out there.

I was at the specialist schools conference last couple of days here in
the UK. (RM biggest education IT supplier in the UK) expect to sell
250,000 ASUS EEEPCs to UK education next year and that runs Linux and
OOo. I talked to guy from a company selling engineering products to
schools and told him how to get OOo for a new laptop hew as about to
buy. Stll people even in technical areas that haven't heard of OOo.
BECTA is financing an open source viewer for interactive whiteboards as
a result of a suggestion I made 2 years ago so slowly the FOSS message
is filtering through which makes the environment easier for OOo. One of
the things we show learners how to do for the Gold INGOT is to use
Portable Apps from USB pendrives which again introduces OOo to students
when some schools simply won't install on their school networks.

On the general INGOT front, we got a lot of interest that should double
the number of schools in the next few months (we are now over 50 paying
institutions from primary to adult education). The Times Educational
Supplement is doing another INGOT  article focused on a School in
Blackburn that just got an outstanding inspection report and was the
first to get the government accredited versions of the INGOT
certificates. We have just had the Comenius project finally approved for
EU and 2 much larger European projects in planning that should get more
than a million Euros of investment in. 

>  Google Highly Open Participation Contest is one of this  
> chances that we are not participating.
> 
> Can we get some traction to get on board?

If there is interest in doing anything jointly I'm happy to cooperate. 

Ian
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[Marketing] Vehicle for OOo into education

[Ian Lynch]

http://ltsblogs.org.uk/connected/2007/11/22/connected-live-video-010-easy-eeepc/#comment-830

Bit about OOo is about halfway in. RM is marketing this to UK schools
and they are in 80% of primary. I need to do a deal with them where we
give one of these free to every school that becomes an INGOT centre :-)

This and OLPC could be the beginning of the end of conventional desktop
PCs in schools, particularly primary and that would be more than 50% of
the market. I can see educational apps being ported to the web and Linux
as a direct result of these coming to the market.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Your Otto needs you...

[Ian Lynch]

On Tue, 2007-11-20 at 20:07 +0100, Florian Effenberger wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> > Continuing the theme of attracting developers ... why don't we just
> > advertise for them?
> 
> I like that idea. It is humorous and eye-catching!

On the topic of Otto

We have Ottos club at 
www.theINGOTs.org/Ottos_club

Java script puzzles for kids doing the entry level INGOT certificates.
We started a section just yesterday for primary children on the
community site which will be focussed on Otto.

http://www.theingots.org/community/node/1103

We have about 1000 learners registered on the community site now
increasing each week. All are researching open source projects or
learning to produce open resources or services.

Moodle courses to teach about open systems and open standards at 

http://theingots.org/moodle/course/view.php?id=9
http://theingots.org/moodle/course/view.php?id=4

Just need to scroll down to activities.

We'll be gradually adding to these resources and they are all CC
licensed so anyone can use them.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] OO - Online Marketing

[Ian Lynch]

On Sun, 2007-11-18 at 03:28 -0800, Gianluigi Cuccureddu wrote:

>  When there are lots of search queries regarding Microsoft problems,
> OO can advertise on these to get at least branding and brand
> recognition, these "keywords" aren't pricy, lots of coverage and a
> positive approach whenever a user is looking for a problem or help.
> With a good landingpage, OO should be able to at least influence the
> mental perceive (un)consiouccely.

Hi Gianluigi,

That sounds like a good idea. Snag is it depends on money and even small
requirements in that respect can be show stoppers as there is no budget
specifically allocated to support the marketing plan. Just recently
there was money available from Sun for marketing but AFAIK there has
been no particular effort to link this specifically to the marketing
plan or delivering against specific targets in the plan. I know that
might seem bizarre in terms of conventional management practice, but
that's the way it is.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Otto Overlays

[Ian Lynch]

> >
> http://rootcoffee.blogspot.com/2007/11/race-to-save-mexico-flood-victims.html
> 
> These were just rough drafts, I wouldn't do any
> stretching on a "finished" image 8^). Otto could be
> smaller? (maybe a lot smaller?). I also thought of
> having him stand beside the screenshot. I'll do some
> more (and I'll keep trying to learn how to draw
> seagull hands 8^) and get them posted...
> 
> Randy

Hands are important. The original Otto caused quite a stir because the
Ok gesture is apparently very rude in Brazil!

Probably generated more publicity than Otto himself though ;-)

Ian

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Re: [Marketing] OpenDocument Foundation drops support for ODF

[Ian Lynch]

On Thu, 2007-11-01 at 16:41 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Ian Lynch a écrit :
> > On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 13:09 -0500, Sean W. O'Quin wrote:
> >   
> >> I think that we should put out some sort of counter press release stating
> >> that Open Document Foundation has nothing to do with OpenOffice.org as this
> >> story has now been picked up by Slashdot and there may be a great deal of
> >> confusion as to what is really going on.
> >> 
> >
> > >From what I read of the Slashdot thread, the OD Foundation was exposed
> > for its lack of real substance. Putting out a press release has the
> > danger of making it seem more important than it really is.
> >
> > Ian
> >   
> I for one would agree with Ian here (everything happens). Regardless of 
> the technical expertise of the OD Foundation, I believe they've been 
> sending the wrong message. But I wish them good luck, because they may 
> be up to something interesting.

Yes, its just not odf by definition so their web site just seems a bit
out of date.

> Wrt to the Fellowship, I'd be cautious of calling it the "grassroots" 

Well the people in the OD Fellowship are generally individuals rather
than companies or organisations whereas the members of the ODF Alliance
are organisations. Its just a way of drawing a distinction between
different groups that are supporting ODF in different ways.

> organization on ODF. Let's avoid labeling this or that group in these 
> ways, as there are others out there. For instance my name is quoted as 
> one of the co-authors of ODF 1.1, but I don't call myself "the" author 
> of ODF (if I were to do that we all would have a good laugh I guess).

No, but you would be reasonable in calling yourself an author of that
document. I'm happy to use the indefinite article rather than the
definite if people can show me another group that is specifically
focused on ODF. OOo is a community focused on a product that uses ODF
and as such will contribute to its development but that is coming from a
rather different focus. Apart from the OD Fellowship I'm just not aware
of any other group of individuals specifically focused ODF in general
rather than applications that use it. I'm quite happy to be corrected if
there is another such group and I'd be interested to make contact with
them.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] OpenDocument Foundation drops support for ODF

[Ian Lynch]

On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 15:04 -0700, RJ Gilson wrote:
> --- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Open Document Foundation is just a title. Its
> > nothing to do with OOo...
> 
> If they're not related to OOo, how can they be using
> the gulls bug and the wire gulls in the header on
> their website?

Perhaps because no-one thought to protect that intellectual property ;-)
Has anyone asked them to remove it?

Ian
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RE: [Marketing] OpenDocument Foundation drops support for ODF

[Ian Lynch]

On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 13:09 -0500, Sean W. O'Quin wrote:
> I think that we should put out some sort of counter press release stating
> that Open Document Foundation has nothing to do with OpenOffice.org as this
> story has now been picked up by Slashdot and there may be a great deal of
> confusion as to what is really going on.

>From what I read of the Slashdot thread, the OD Foundation was exposed
for its lack of real substance. Putting out a press release has the
danger of making it seem more important than it really is.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] OpenDocument Foundation drops support for ODF

[Ian Lynch]

On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 11:45 -0500, Sean W. O'Quin wrote:
> What is OpenDocument Foundation's relationship to OOo? Have we come back
> with a counter release?

Open Document Foundation is just a title. Its nothing to do with OOo and
now apparently nothing to do with odf. Its members are few in number and
they have a particular view that is not held by too many others as far
as I can tell. Sort of makes a bit of a nonsense of the their title
really. They can't be an Open Document Foundation if they don't support
the Open Document fileformat ;-) The Open Document Alliance is the
umbrella organisation supporting odf and the Open Document Fellowship is
the grass roots support group and a member of the Open Document
Alliance. OOo is a fully working implementation of odf. Open Document
Foundation is not really relevant to odf so why counter anything? IIRC
we still have an Open Document Foundation registered here in the UK but
it wasn't needed once the OD Alliance started.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] HiPath OpenOffice

[Ian Lynch]

On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 22:17 +, jonathon wrote:
> Ian wrote:
> 
> > > I realize that trademark registration is expensive.
> > Not that expensive. IIRC it was about £250 ($500) to trademark the
> 
> For one country about £250. Multiply that by 244 and you are looking
> at roughly 61,000 pounds. Not as much as I thought it would be.  (I'm
> quoting Wikipedia for the number of countries, so that figure is
> probably wrong.)

So just register it in the G8 countries to start with. That would make
it very difficult for anyone to do much and it would only cost £2k.

> > So in the whole scheme of things trademarking OOo in the G8
> countries is a negligible cost compared to the salaries of the
> developers, community manager and
> 
> Assuming that other countries charge roughly the same amount, you're
> looking at the cost of three or four employees, for trademark
> protection in every country of the world.

But we don't really need to do it in every country to have a big effect.
What we want is maximum effect for minimum cost. Even just registering
in the USA would make a big difference.

> [Note to self:  construct list of countries, with amount to register
> trademark, and process by which that can be done.]
> 
> > Interesting idea. What name would be suitable? Freedom office, perhaps?
> > or the People's Office?
> 
> In the US, "People's Office" sounds like a communist plot.   "Freedom
> Office" might work, but suffers from association with "freedom fries"
> 
> I'd like to retain the OOo designation, but not sure how.   "Oooh"
> might be a little too out of place for a corporate environment.  I was
> thinking of something in Esperanto, Interlingua, or one of the other
> conlangs would be a good choice.
> Perhaps "toko tomo pali".
> (Wondering how Sonja Kisa would react if that were to be the name of
> the project.)
> 
> >It would also counter MS and its OOXML piracy of the name.
> 
> That is part of the idea of worldwide trademark protection.

Just the USA would have stopped MS if someone had had the foresight to
do it. Quite amazing given all the paranoia with Sun legal in dealing
with the OOo web site for example.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Microsoft licensing in Schools A BBC Report

[Ian Lynch]

On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 20:00 -0500, Sean W. O'Quin wrote:
> Notable quotes from Becta - British Educational Communications and
> Technology Agency on their recent recommendation against Vista and Microsoft
> Office for Britain's education system.
> 
> 
>  "Becta's advice to schools considering moving to Microsoft's School
> Agreement subscription licensing model is that they should not do so. 
> 
> It reminds schools they are legally obliged to have licensed software, but
> suggests they use instead what is known as "perpetual licensing". 
> 
> This gives the permanent right to use the software and requires no ongoing
> payments beyond the purchase price. 
> 
> The advantage to schools in using a subscription service such as Microsoft's
> is that smaller, annual payments are involved rather than a larger one-off
> cost. 
> 
> But a spokesman for Becta said the problem was that Microsoft required
> schools to have licences for every PC in a school that might use its
> software, whether they were actually doing so or running something else."

Some here might remember that I made a similar complaint to the UK
Office of fair trading back in 2003. At the time it was difficult to
gather the right sort of evidence and as an individual in a small
business my resources are limited. Ironically the MS monopoly is so all
encompassing when you ask people about machines running no MS software
they don't know there is an option. Unless they are well informed, they
don't give the right answers. This is changing and so the BECTA (who
have the weight of government backing) complaint is probably timed well.
The OFT didn't rule one way or the other on my original complaint but
left the file open. Since then Norway has successfully renegotiated
schools agreement without the requirement to pay for machines running no
MS software using their competition law. Norway is not an EU member but
the UK is so if the UK gets the same concession as Norway it will have
to apply throughout the EU. In addition, if governments judge MSSA to be
unlawful there should be more fines. I have resubmitted my original
complaint with some significant additional evidence. If MSSA is judged
to be illegal there would be good grounds for compensation. Its been
around a long time and anyone trying to get eg GNU/Linux or
OpenOffice.org into schools has a strong argument that it has damaged
their business. If anyone in a business in an EU member state  has
evidence of this drop me an E-mail. The sort of thing needed is a school
that has said something like "We liked your ideas about using OOo (or
GNU Linux) but we are using MSSA and it will be too expensive to make
that sort of change"

> "In a previous report, Becta said primary schools could typically save up to
> 50% and secondary schools more than 20% of their ICT costs if they switched
> to what is known as "open source" software. 
> 
> In its complaint it also identifies potential difficulties for schools,
> pupils and parents who wish to use alternatives to Microsoft's Office suite,
> such as Open Office or Star Office, because they may not be compatible."

Which is more pressure on MS to support true interoperability through
the take up and support of ODF.

> Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7063716.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] HiPath OpenOffice

[Ian Lynch]

On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 20:16 +, jonathon wrote:
> Sharud wrote:
> 
> > As it is confusing with name "OpenOffice" , therefore we should raise this 
> > issue.
> 
> It is too late now, but
> * "OpenOffice.org" should have been trademarked in at least every
> major country, prior to being released;
> * "OpenOffice" should have been trademarked in countries in which it
> was not already a trademark;
> * The OOo logos should have been trademarked, prior to release;
> 
> I realize that trademark registration is expensive. 

Not that expensive. IIRC it was about £250 ($500) to trademark the
INGOTs and The Learning Machine in the UK. So in the whole scheme of
things trademarking OOo in the G8 countries is a negligible cost
compared to the salaries of the developers, community manager and web
site hosting etc.

> Without, there
> will eventually come a point where OOo will be legally required
> to/forced to change names, because the usage by OOo is a trademark
> infringement. (What is the current number of countries where the OOo
> L10N team has to use a name other than OOo when distributing it,
> because of the trademark infringement.)
> 
> The other option is to rename OOo now, and trademark the new name in
> at least the major countries of the world, prior to the release of the
> new version with the new name.

Interesting idea. What name would be suitable? Freedom office, perhaps?
or the People's Office? It would also counter MS and its OOXML piracy of
the name.

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Re: [Marketing] Re: Marketshare Memes (was "Interesting study about price sensitivity of students")

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 18:50 -0700, NoOp wrote:

> That said, the largest stumbling block to OOo's lack of market share
> isn't price, file compatibility, or other issues raised in the article.
> Instead it's the continued lack of a proper support staff and ease of
> upgrades/updates.

Yes, if the components could be downloaded separately in < 20 meg each
with automatic updates to new versions a lot more people would use it.
Key people are aware of it. Unfortunately its a very big job to change
things.

0) They don't know it exists or if they do they don't really know how
powerful it is and anyway their friend gives them a pirate copy of MS
Office.

> 1) They've used it all of their school lives and it's generally
> installed already on their computer,
> 
> 2) the school only supports MS & doesn't want to deal with OOo because
> MS is what their techs know,

Which is why you need a strategy based on education professional
knowledge, not selling head to head against MS. Make it part of the
curriculum and give educational reasons to use the software that rumps
the mechanistic use of one application.

http://theingots.org/moodle/mod/resource/view.php?inpopup=true&id=136
http://theingots.org/moodle/mod/resource/view.php?inpopup=true&id=33

> 3) when they do use OOo there is no formal tech support (even with
> StarOffice this is a problem) and the website is mind-boggling in trying
> to find help even for experienced users. Hence they may resort to the
> users mail list who's responses are from other users & a few steady user
> volunteers like myself,

Quite a few of us have spent time supporting the users list. Its a
valuable job but there are also many other ways of deploying time and
best matching it to expertise.

> 4) they simply don't have time, nor wish to deal with alternatives. They
> may try it once or twice, but the bottom line is if an 18-21 year old in
> college is working on something, they simply don't want to deal with an
> alternative, be it free or otherwise. They want something that is the
> norm, that their school & professors require, that they don't have to
> send an email to a users mail list to get help if the install craps out,
> and just works. After all, many of them were sent off to college with a
> new laptop in the last minute 'send the kid to school' rush, and in most
> cases that laptop included MS Office. If not they can get the student
> version for about $59 USD from MS. So why bother?
> 
> *So why bother?*
> 
> Perhaps OOo should revive the education & library projects that seem to
> have been dropped by the wayside. Anyone here visited the Libraries and
> Public Administrations Project lately?

I used to lead the education project. To revive it you need people with
the expertise and contacts in those worlds willing to put time and
effort into it. They are hardly likely to do that when instead of
helping them, obstacles and discouragement are the reward.

> http://marketing.openoffice.org/pa/
> 
> or how about:
> 
> http://marketing.openoffice.org/education/schools/
> 
> or
> 
> http://marketing.openoffice.org/education/schools/univs/index.html
> 
> how about:
> 
> http://education.openoffice.org/
> 
> Can anyone make sense of any of those web pages (other than they are
> basically stale and serve no purpose any longer?)?

Ever thought about why? Hint: Read your post that implies those that
made some effort to try and get better effect from the resources being
made available are a bunch of nutters.

> Here, try this:
> 
> http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/SummarizeList?listName=libraries
> 
> If OOo want to fix the Marketshare issue mentioned in the article, then
> OOo marketing need to forgo the silly 'give a OOo t-shirt to a poor kid'
> thought and go back into mainstream library and education markets.  If
> kids grow up with OOo in the classroom they *will* use it into their
> college years.

So what do *you* suggest should be done? I have spent 4 years setting up
a UK government accredited awarding body with open systems
qualifications and a strategy to get them into schools around the world
which appears to be working. Its not a quick fix, its a 10 year
strategy. The company is now sustainable from its income with projects
in South Africa funded by Shuttleworth and others with partners across
Europe. We will produce an ever-increasing range of free learning
resources from this income and extend the valued qualifications backed
by the British Government (and other governments in due course) to
sustain development. All this despite rather than because of people like
you telling me I'm some sort of nutter or worse.

> Ironically, Sun with StarOffice has made *no* dent in the
> education/library markets despite the fact that SO is basically *free*
> to students and educational institutions.

Mainly because Sun are just as clueless about marketing to schools as
most others who haven't been in that culture professionally. Its
specialist stuff, just as writing code for OO

Re: [Marketing] Marketshare Memes blog post

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 07:15 -0700, Benjamin Horst wrote:
> I've converted my email of this morning into a blog post on the
> subject. Comments and discussion are very welcome there: also, please
> Digg the post to see how quickly we can start this meme!

Dugg

http://www.digg.com/software/The_Real_Market_Share_Stats_of_MS_Office_versus_the_rest


Please Digg this link and pass to as many as possible. Its one way we
can make a marketing difference without any money!

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Merchandising from Sun funds

[Ian Lynch]

On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 18:38 -0700, RJ Gilson wrote:
> Hi everybody, I'm very new here (mostly an 'art list
> guy), but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth 8^)
> 
> Wouldn't it be easier to track if people had to send
> something in to get a free CD? Lke a coupon on snack
> food items (Frito Lay, Hershey, Nabisco), box top
> (Kellogs, Little Debbie) or bottle top (Pepsico, Coke,
> Snapple). Then you'd know that the Cds were being
> used.   Maybe office supply type things would work
> too, like Bic pens, Logitech computer accessories,
> printer paper (can't think of any companies for that
> one 8^) etc. Just a thought...

Good ideas. Send coupons to get portable office on a pen drive perhaps.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Merchandising from Sun funds

[Ian Lynch]

On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 17:14 +, andylockran wrote:
> So the main thing now is strategy.  IMHO we would be better finding a
> big supplier and in-effect outsourcing the box tokens to them.
> However, I'm sure they'll want to know the benefit to them. I suppose
> if we say 1,000 gets you a computer for the school - and 10,000 gets a
> thin-client cluster then that'd work.. but we've branched the idea
> away from OOo on CD. (and from OOo t-shirts).  
> 
> I think the box token idea is good - but for OOo specifially, I think
> the CD approach would work better.  There are already 'computers for
> schools' projects - and our message (in my opinion) should be re-use,
> rather than buy new.

Computers could come pre-installed with OpenOffice. They could be for
example, Asus's new machine
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/10/09/rm_asus_launches_minibook/

or a One laptop per child machine.

The thing is that the supermarket vouchers for school IT equipment is
known to be successful so its backing a winner. 

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Merchandising from Sun funds

[Ian Lynch]

On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 17:54 +0200, CTVN wrote:
> putting it in cereal boxes is really an excellent way to get it to the  
> attention of people as "average jane/joe" sees it in the supermarket. this  
> is a top spot and worth lot.
> 
> regarding the actual use of the cd, perhaps its not that effective as  
> people buy cereal to eat and not to install a computer software. so from a  
> usage perspective, CDs would perhaps better be used in context with  
> education. to stimulate actual use of the CD in the cereal boxes,  
> additions of CC music or videos might be something  
> (http://www.linuxelectrons.com/news/linux/11085/fedora-creative-commons-team-deliver-livecontent-distribution)


Box tokens. Collect 1000 box tokens and your school gets a free computer
(Or Sunray for their thin client Global Desktop network). Kids collect
the tokens and take them into school. School puts them together and
claims its computer. LiveCDs running portable apps would be one way of
them trying things out so they didn't need to install anything. Run from
the CD. If you like it click install.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Merchandising from Sun funds

[Ian Lynch]

On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 15:34 +, andylockran wrote:
> I like the Kellogg's idea for the CDs - has it been raised before - and if so 
> - what were the pros/cons?

It did come up several years ago. Its still a good idea but needs
someone who can get to the right people in the company. Sun might be
able to facilitate this big company to big company. Does Sun do the IT
for any of thee?

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Re: [Marketing] Merchandising from Sun funds

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 02:58 +1300, Graham Lauder wrote:

> We are tossing a very small stone in a very large pond
> I would stick with just the T-Shirts, but again that would depend on our 
> targets.
> 
> Let's first define our demographic
> Decide locations
> Establish the message we want to deliver
> Figure out how best to measure the success of the campaign  
> Then decide what type of merchandise delivers the message best to our 
> proposed 
> target audience while delivering a measurable result.  

Why not give them to a group of children who would really benefit eg in
a developing country. "OOo community puts shirts on the backs of 2000
children!" Take a photograph and then try and get that photograph into
the mainstream press. That way the kids benefit and more people see the
OOo name than would just from a T shirt promotion.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Important news regarding the marketing campagin

[Ian Lynch]

On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 13:32 +1300, Graham wrote:

> Hi Louis,
> 
> Frankly I think we're going about this the wrong way.
> 
> What the project needs to do is to come up with a campaign.  Costs, targets, 
> goals and methodologies and then present that to all the corporate partners  
> for a contribution to a war chest. 
> 
> The positive that came out of this debacle is at least we know now that there 
> is a marketing budget to be had.
> 
> I have always believed that the strength of OOo is in it's mix between 
> community and corporate.  We need to leverage that strength.  At the moment 
> we're not, the community gets dragged around like the baby of the 
> family:  "Sit in the back seat,  shutup and don't annoy the adults cos we 
> know best."   
> 
> We need to be more proactive

I don't think you will solve these issues until there is an OOo
foundation independent of particular companies.

Ian
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RE: [Marketing] Return to the marketing

[Ian Lynch]

On Thu, 2007-09-27 at 13:21 -0500, Sean W. O'Quin wrote:
> Ian...
> 
> Although a nice concept, I do not seeing MSFT in any deals or agreements
> with open source vendors especially any that deal with their 2 holy grails
> into a enterprise the MSFT O/S or MSFT Office.

It was a bit of a joke, hence the smilies :-)

> What about a link to the OpenOffice download on the desktop as a first pass?
> I think OEM's would be much more receptive to this first step. 
> 
> -----Original Message-
> From: Ian Lynch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:07 PM
> To: dev@marketing.openoffice.org
> Subject: Re: [Marketing] Return to the marketing
> 
> On Thu, 2007-09-27 at 08:44 +0200, Erwin Tenhumberg wrote:
> > > I can't see any economic reason for a system builder installing MS Works
> > > on a computer instead of OOo unless M$ is actually paying them to do
> > > it. 
> > 
> > System builders might not get money for installing MS Works, but they
> > might get money (e.g. via revenue sharing) from selling upgrades to the
> > full MS Office product.
> 
> That's more plausible although you'd think that if the customer wanted
> and could afford MS Office they would get it from the outset. If they
> start using Works they do have an upgrade issue because its not that
> easy to upgrade works files to MS office files - probably easier going
> OOo to MSO. Maybe we should do a deal with MS to get them to give a
> discount on MSO for upgrading from OOo pre-installed so there is a
> reason for system builders to install OOo to get a discount :-) Worth
> the gamble because once using it how many people would swap OOo for MSO?
> MS might just be arrogant enough to believe they would ;-)
> 
> Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Return to the marketing

[Ian Lynch]

On Thu, 2007-09-27 at 08:44 +0200, Erwin Tenhumberg wrote:
> > I can't see any economic reason for a system builder installing MS Works
> > on a computer instead of OOo unless M$ is actually paying them to do
> > it. 
> 
> System builders might not get money for installing MS Works, but they
> might get money (e.g. via revenue sharing) from selling upgrades to the
> full MS Office product.

That's more plausible although you'd think that if the customer wanted
and could afford MS Office they would get it from the outset. If they
start using Works they do have an upgrade issue because its not that
easy to upgrade works files to MS office files - probably easier going
OOo to MSO. Maybe we should do a deal with MS to get them to give a
discount on MSO for upgrading from OOo pre-installed so there is a
reason for system builders to install OOo to get a discount :-) Worth
the gamble because once using it how many people would swap OOo for MSO?
MS might just be arrogant enough to believe they would ;-)

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Return to the marketing

[Ian Lynch]

On Thu, 2007-09-27 at 01:28 -0500, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 01:22:49 -0500, Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > So how come Dell can put Ubuntu (with OOo in its machines and Lenovo is
> > considering doing it for laptops?) Canonical - so as long as you have
> > some stable company pulling things together it doesn't seem too
> > important how the individual products are backed.
> >
> > Ian
> 
> Governments will sign a contract with Dell UK.

In fact in UK education individual schools decide what computers to buy
and that is also the case in quite a number of places. Centralise
procurement is not at all the whole market.

>  Dell in itself is the one  
> to deal with Canonical.com or Ubuntu.org  but it really depends how the  
> negotiations where handled and what is the legal requirements on each  
> country.
> 
> Example, mexico for a while required the vendor to produce the machines in  
> the country. That is one of the reason why Apple couldn't sell computers  
> for a long time.

But why would that limit OOo because it isn't a company? Just get any
clone manufacturer to install it when they build the machine in Mexico.
Its more about persuading OEMs to pre-install OOo.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Return to the marketing

[Ian Lynch]

On Wed, 2007-09-26 at 18:12 -0500, Alexandro Colorado wrote:

> >> Also the need of more non profit entities in countries so that
> >> openoffice.org scale to large deployments. basically we are finding that
> >> OOo vendors hav e a hard time justifiying the product and the brand.
> >
> > Not sure why not for profits will do that any better than profit making
> > companies. Basically a not for profit still needs a revenue source to
> > cover operating costs. It needs business models that are not based on
> > selling software licenses. I did some training yesterday not
> > specifically related to OOo but OOo went down very well with the
> > teachers involved when I showed them how to get it and why it would be
> > useful to them. I get paid for doing that training so its sustainable.
> 
> Hi Ian, you miss the point here, the problem is not being a for profit or  
> not for profit. What the governments need is a legal entity of  
> OpenOffice.org. 

That makes more sense. 

>  The companies that offer the services will use  
> OpenOffice.org and generate a profit, but the actual OpenOffice.org 'name  
> holder' should be legally stablish in the country.

Needs a foundation in each country then. I'm not holding my breath :-)
In fact a company that is stable offering to support it is probably good
enough. Moodle seems OK in this respect and has 50% foorhold in the UK
FE market. In fact i expect it to sweep theough the secondary sector
too.

> > I can't see any economic reason for a system builder installing MS Works
> > on a computer instead of OOo unless M$ is actually paying them to do
> > it.
> 
> Legally a lot of things apartently doesn't make sense until you get  
> contracts in the mix. For example the OOXML was a clear example when OOo  
> members legally couldn't represent OOo because legally OOo doesn't exist  
> like Microsoft does.

So how come Dell can put Ubuntu (with OOo in its machines and Lenovo is
considering doing it for laptops?) Canonical - so as long as you have
some stable company pulling things together it doesn't seem too
important how the individual products are backed.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Return to the marketing

[Ian Lynch]

On Wed, 2007-09-26 at 17:31 -0500, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:12:27 -0500, Graham Lauder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
> wrote:
> 
> > Welcome back to everybody after what looked like a very successful  
> > conference.
> >
> > I'd like to return focus to the Marketing campaign proposals
> >
> > Was anything discussed  at the conference, with regard to the campaign,  
> > that
> > those of us who couldn't attend should know about.
> >
> > Is there a conference page somewhere where there are minutes of the  
> > meetings
> >
> > Cheers
> > GL
> >

> At least at the MarCon level there were success stories and failure ones  
>  from the Vendors such as Dell. There were other topics about 'how to  
> market to web 2.0' in which is a whole lifestyle from the design to the  
> funny logos to the viral nature of the imeplementations.
> 
> Things like the OOo facebook group, more Youtube Videos and more presence  
> on things like stumble upon,  digg, youtube, slideshare, mugshot and so on.

Maybe OOo needs to sweep through second life and establish itself as the
virtual world standard ;-)

> Also the need of more non profit entities in countries so that  
> openoffice.org scale to large deployments. basically we are finding that  
> OOo vendors hav e a hard time justifiying the product and the brand.

Not sure why not for profits will do that any better than profit making
companies. Basically a not for profit still needs a revenue source to
cover operating costs. It needs business models that are not based on
selling software licenses. I did some training yesterday not
specifically related to OOo but OOo went down very well with the
teachers involved when I showed them how to get it and why it would be
useful to them. I get paid for doing that training so its sustainable. 

I can't see any economic reason for a system builder installing MS Works
on a computer instead of OOo unless M$ is actually paying them to do
it. 

Ian
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[Marketing] [Fwd: OOXML Digg]

[Ian Lynch]

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--- Begin Message ---
http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/mgmt/74C665EDA37CB6F0CC2573560004F188

Please digg and circulate.  OOXML is a pointless
standard because even MS will not follow it. ODF is the only option.
Criticise it sure, but then adopt it and work to improve it. 

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Re: [documentation-dev] Article: Open-source strategy: Documentation = dollars

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2007-09-14 at 12:41 +0200, Frank Peters wrote:
> Jean Hollis Weber wrote:
> > Interesting article:
> > 
> > "Open-source strategy: Documentation = dollars", by Matt Asay
> > http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13505_1-9774567-16.html
> > 
> > Here is a quote from the article:
> > "People don't visit a software company's website to read about
> > the executives. They visit the website to get information on the
> > software. If your website is light on that information, you're
> > killing sales, especially in an open-source software company."
> 
> If only our sales people would understand that ;-)
> 
> > I think it's especially relevant to the OOo website. IMO the
> > changes Frank has made to the Documentation Project's first page
> > (and his addition of the Getting Help page) have helped greatly
> > in making the Docs pages more useful for users.
> > 
> > However, I still have issues with the emphasis on the first page
> > of the main OOo website.
> 
> You are not alone. We need more focus on the user.

+1. The difficulty for a web site appealing to a wide range of different
interests is that it can't simultaneously satisfy them all. However,
that isn't a reason for satisfying none of them! A big prominent
download button is a no brainer but after that what would a casual user
want to know as opposed to established community members? The New User
link is the most important one on the page if we want new blood. The
information supplied there has two key issues to me. One is that its all
too dense with nothing to catch the eye and interest. Do I really want
to read through all that to find something I think is relevant to me? 

OpenOffice.org is both a fully-featured office suite compatible with
leading office products, and a virtual community working through
OpenOffice.org's numerous projects. The community comes together at
www.openoffice.org to develop, support, and promote the use of
OpenOffice.org. For information on joining the OpenOffice.org community,
visit our Introduction page. 

Why not

The OpenOffice.org Community is working to create the best possible
office software for YOU! If you work in education, business or at home
we can help and its entirely free.

Link education, business and home to compelling reasons that would
interest a casual reader further and try things out. Make the text much
bigger and use some graphics and colour. Compare to say
http://www.ubuntu.com/ for visual appeal.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Re: [marketing-events] Fwd: Call For Presentations - SCALE 6x

[Ian Lynch]

On Fri, 2007-09-14 at 18:19 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:
> Of particular interest, given the marketing priorities we've 
> identified for OOo2.3, is this:
> 
> "... newly added for SCALE 6X is a Friday conference on 
> education: “Open Source in Education” which focuses on 
> opportunities for Open Source in the field of education."

Not sure about the US, but Open Source in education here in the UK is
getting a higher and higher political profile. Some of this is down to
Moodle. Moodle introduces teachers to Open Source so targeting Moodle
users with OOo would be likely to get some traction. Maybe someone could
find out about Moodle take up in US schools and use this as an in to
spread Open Source wider.

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Announcement: IBM Joins the OpenOffice.org Community

[Ian Lynch]

On Mon, 2007-09-10 at 16:05 +0200, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

> > Wonder how long before Microsoft join the OOo community ;-)
> >   
> 
> Oh, I bet this will be a delicious moment...

Maybe Google and Oracle would be more likely sooner:-) Imagine Sun, IBM,
Google and Oracle combining forces for an open office suite that could
be desktop or web based, sleek code and a lot of brand raising. That
would be good night vienna for proprietary code I think and the revenue
diverted to other services and products so in the interest of any of
these big players one would have thought. 

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Announcement: IBM Joins the OpenOffice.org Community

[Ian Lynch]

On Mon, 2007-09-10 at 22:56 +0900, Kazunari Hirano wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> On 9/10/07, Charles-H. Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Welcome IBM!
> Yes, Indeed!
> 
> Please help me translate the very last sentence of the FAQ:
> "ODF use dwarfs the use of OOXML."
> :)
> Can you use more words to explain what it means?

A dwarf is a small person usually a genetic condition or lack of growth
hormone so if you "dwarf" something you make it seem very small. 

So ODF use is far bigger than the current take up and use of OOXML.

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Re: [Marketing] Announcement: IBM Joins the OpenOffice.org Community

[Ian Lynch]

On Mon, 2007-09-10 at 15:37 +0200, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> Alexandro Colorado a écrit :
> > On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:36:01 -0500, Lars Noodén
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
> >>> A Press Release was issued this morning to announce that IBM are
> >>> joining the OOo community
> >>
> >> Great news!  As a side, I hope this helps further bootstrap ODF uptake
> >> in other applications.  Notes will be supporting it.
> >>
> >> -Lars
> >
> >
> > Agree this is a very good news, however I dont see a realationship
> > between both development lines.  Notes adoption of ODF came from the
> > merge of Workplace which was OOo 1.x modified. However this seems more
> > like a consolidating move rather than diversification of applications.
> >
> > That said, I would love to see more indepth the 'server-side uptake'
> > so that OOo can achieve the collaboration bits needed in the suite.

> Indeed. ODF and OOo are not correlated in terms of development, nor is
> the Lotus stack. But this is some very good news, and I think it's also
> an evidence that OOo is "owned by Sun". 

I think you missed a "not" out there somewhere!

> The truth is, you have now many
> companies, including Sun, an important amount of community developers
> who are contributing to OOo.
> Welcome IBM!

Wonder how long before Microsoft join the OOo community ;-)

Ian
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Re: [Marketing] Announcement: IBM Joins the OpenOffice.org Community

[Ian Lynch]

On Mon, 2007-09-10 at 08:21 -0400, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
> On 2007-09-10, at 07:57 , Vitor Domingos wrote:
> 
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA512
> >
> > Finally! IBM's way to say "we love ODF" :)
> 
> ... not, "We love OpenOffice.org?" :-)

Why can't they love both? ;-)

Ian
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