Re: FIP; and recent spay question
I answered you, but feel free to call if you want. Please, please do not panic. I will see if I can find some info on FIP for you outside of the archives. On Dec 25, 2007 2:17 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wanted to resend this with a new subject line, since I am now able to access the Archives and I'm scanning for info on FIP. None of what I'm finding is making me feel better- only worse. caroline -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Archives Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:02:21 -0500 I can't access the Archives. I keep trying and I keep getting an error message. It's not my internet service, obviously, or I wouldn't be able to send this email. Anyone else tried? I'd really like to get to the Archives because I took a cat into my home that I took from the store on Sat. because he looked horrible and no one else is doing anything about it (of course). Took him to the doctor yesterday (had to *fight* to get approval to even do that and the cat is obviously sickly looking- I'm so frustrated), and the vet is very concerned about infectious disease. Thank god- but I think he was shocked that the cat hasn't been treated yet, so I made it very very clear that I just got my hands on this cat and have been playing clean-up duty since the end of Aug. on these orphaned Metro AC June babies and that the group I VOLUNTEER FOR has made my self-appointed task of cleaning up their neglected messes, very very difficult. I didn't mince words. It was Christmas Eve and I spent 2 hours and 15 mins at the vets and NOT being able to work and I just cracked I guess. The vet is suspecting- based only on the physical exam b/c we won't get the blood tests (full panel) back on Wed. (hopefully)-- FIP, FIV, and/or Felv in that order. I am not so worried about Felv b/c I have dealt with that before and I just don't think it's transmitted that easily in non-fighting cats (my own opinion). But I have never dealt with FIP and FIV and this cat was mingled with my other fosters by the adoption agency I volunteer for before I ever even took in any cats. So basically I am freaking out that I may have FIP cats on my hands and not have known it b/c of course I am now wondering if that is what has been wrong with my weak little Possum cat all this time. I'm mad and scared and feel like I was asked to take in cats yet not given the resources to deal with them fully and protect them from each other; not to mention the caring for them with 2 hands tied behind my back b/c to get approval to take them to a vet (for the agency to pay for it) takes more arguing and hoop jumping-- the cat has to be practically dying to be able to get approval without being told things like well, if it would make YOU feel better...but I think you are overreacting. And I spent literally hundreds of dollars premium food and litter that I just don't have any money left over to rush cats out to vets and pay for it myself. I'm just sick over this. I'm trying to care for this little guy until we get the results back. I have to give him fluids- which I have never done and he's a fighter. He got fluids yesterday at the clinic, but he was still somewhat sedated from when they took his blood, so I am sure my attempt today will not go half as smooth. He's not happy about being in a crate in a room by himself either and it breaks my heart. So I wanted to look through the archives because I know FIP and FIV have been discussed before. Also, of my 3 barn kittens (totally separated from the other fosters- so don't worry about that), I have one now who's little spay site seems a tad oozy. Nothing scary scary like blood or a lot of fluid, but it just doesn't look totally right. Not that I know what totally right looks like tho because I've never had a kitten this young spayed and I wasn't really given any follow-up care instructions- just been using my own common sense. But of course, I am worried. And of course, it's Christmas and that makes it very hard to call and ask anyone! Caroline -- Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Get it now!http://www.windowslive.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 -- The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. Get it now! http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Please help Clarissa! http://rescuties.chipin.com/clarissasheart
Re: FIP; and recent spay question
i don't have the link in front of me--go to petsmart charities, and look up their recorded seminars. there was one i attended a couple of months ago on the most recent info re: FIP. it should be up on the site by now. MC On Dec 25, 2007 3:17 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wanted to resend this with a new subject line, since I am now able to access the Archives and I'm scanning for info on FIP. None of what I'm finding is making me feel better- only worse. caroline -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Archives Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:02:21 -0500 I can't access the Archives. I keep trying and I keep getting an error message. It's not my internet service, obviously, or I wouldn't be able to send this email. Anyone else tried? I'd really like to get to the Archives because I took a cat into my home that I took from the store on Sat. because he looked horrible and no one else is doing anything about it (of course). Took him to the doctor yesterday (had to *fight* to get approval to even do that and the cat is obviously sickly looking- I'm so frustrated), and the vet is very concerned about infectious disease. Thank god- but I think he was shocked that the cat hasn't been treated yet, so I made it very very clear that I just got my hands on this cat and have been playing clean-up duty since the end of Aug. on these orphaned Metro AC June babies and that the group I VOLUNTEER FOR has made my self-appointed task of cleaning up their neglected messes, very very difficult. I didn't mince words. It was Christmas Eve and I spent 2 hours and 15 mins at the vets and NOT being able to work and I just cracked I guess. The vet is suspecting- based only on the physical exam b/c we won't get the blood tests (full panel) back on Wed. (hopefully)-- FIP, FIV, and/or Felv in that order. I am not so worried about Felv b/c I have dealt with that before and I just don't think it's transmitted that easily in non-fighting cats (my own opinion). But I have never dealt with FIP and FIV and this cat was mingled with my other fosters by the adoption agency I volunteer for before I ever even took in any cats. So basically I am freaking out that I may have FIP cats on my hands and not have known it b/c of course I am now wondering if that is what has been wrong with my weak little Possum cat all this time. I'm mad and scared and feel like I was asked to take in cats yet not given the resources to deal with them fully and protect them from each other; not to mention the caring for them with 2 hands tied behind my back b/c to get approval to take them to a vet (for the agency to pay for it) takes more arguing and hoop jumping-- the cat has to be practically dying to be able to get approval without being told things like well, if it would make YOU feel better...but I think you are overreacting. And I spent literally hundreds of dollars premium food and litter that I just don't have any money left over to rush cats out to vets and pay for it myself. I'm just sick over this. I'm trying to care for this little guy until we get the results back. I have to give him fluids- which I have never done and he's a fighter. He got fluids yesterday at the clinic, but he was still somewhat sedated from when they took his blood, so I am sure my attempt today will not go half as smooth. He's not happy about being in a crate in a room by himself either and it breaks my heart. So I wanted to look through the archives because I know FIP and FIV have been discussed before. Also, of my 3 barn kittens (totally separated from the other fosters- so don't worry about that), I have one now who's little spay site seems a tad oozy. Nothing scary scary like blood or a lot of fluid, but it just doesn't look totally right. Not that I know what totally right looks like tho because I've never had a kitten this young spayed and I wasn't really given any follow-up care instructions- just been using my own common sense. But of course, I am worried. And of course, it's Christmas and that makes it very hard to call and ask anyone! Caroline -- Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Get it now!http://www.windowslive.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 -- The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. Get it now! http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP and otyher uglies
Don't worry about FIV. It's very hard to transmit except through deep
penetrating bite wounds. (I have an FIV+ cat of my own, have had others, and I
moderate an FIV group. Email off-list if you want more detail on this.)
FIP -- first off all, no way can it be diagnosed visually. It's hard to
diagnose the dry form except by necropsy. And, while a lot of cats may test
positive for the corona virus at some point over a lifetime (and please make
this distinction -- FIP and corona are two very different things), very few
actually develop FIP. It requires a genetic predisposition, plus exposure to
corona, plus some triggering event or stress. (There is an FIP group too,
btw.) More info on FIP at http://www.orionfoundation.com/ and www.dr-addie.com
These are the two best sites with most current, informed info. Also, once a
cat alctually develops FIP (and distinguished from the corona virus), FIP is
trapped in the macrophage and does not shed.
If you wanna talk, email me your phone number. I'm not doing anything much
today other than unpacking boxes and puttering around the house. (And
adoptions! FOUR adoptions in 4 days, with the last just 1/2 an hour ago. A
family drove more than an hour to come get a little calico I had listed for
adoption.)
Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
.hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage {
FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma }I can't access the Archives. I keep
trying and I keep getting an error message. It's not my internet service,
obviously, or I wouldn't be able to send this email. Anyone else tried?
I'd really like to get to the Archives because I took a cat into my home that I
took from the store on Sat. because he looked horrible and no one else is doing
anything about it (of course). Took him to the doctor yesterday (had to fight
to get approval to even do that and the cat is obviously sickly looking- I'm so
frustrated), and the vet is very concerned about infectious disease. Thank
god- but I think he was shocked that the cat hasn't been treated yet, so I made
it very very clear that I just got my hands on this cat and have been playing
clean-up duty since the end of Aug. on these orphaned Metro AC June babies
and that the group I VOLUNTEER FOR has made my self-appointed task of cleaning
up their neglected messes, very very difficult. I didn't mince words. It was
Christmas Eve and I spent 2 hours and 15 mins at the vets and NOT being able to
work and I just cracked I guess.
The vet is suspecting- based only on the physical exam b/c we won't get the
blood tests (full panel) back on Wed. (hopefully)-- FIP, FIV, and/or Felv in
that order. I am not so worried about Felv b/c I have dealt with that before
and I just don't think it's transmitted that easily in non-fighting cats (my
own opinion). But I have never dealt with FIP and FIV and this cat was mingled
with my other fosters by the adoption agency I volunteer for before I ever even
took in any cats. So basically I am freaking out that I may have FIP cats on
my hands and not have known it b/c of course I am now wondering if that is what
has been wrong with my weak little Possum cat all this time. I'm mad and
scared and feel like I was asked to take in cats yet not given the resources to
deal with them fully and protect them from each other; not to mention the
caring for them with 2 hands tied behind my back b/c to get approval to take
them to a vet (for the agency to pay for it) takes more
arguing and hoop jumping-- the cat has to be practically dying to be able to
get approval without being told things like well, if it would make YOU feel
better...but I think you are overreacting. And I spent literally hundreds of
dollars premium food and litter that I just don't have any money left over to
rush cats out to vets and pay for it myself. I'm just sick over this. I'm
trying to care for this little guy until we get the results back. I have to
give him fluids- which I have never done and he's a fighter. He got fluids
yesterday at the clinic, but he was still somewhat sedated from when they took
his blood, so I am sure my attempt today will not go half as smooth. He's not
happy about being in a crate in a room by himself either and it breaks my
heart.
So I wanted to look through the archives because I know FIP and FIV have been
discussed before.
Also, of my 3 barn kittens (totally separated from the other fosters- so don't
worry about that), I have one now who's little spay site seems a tad oozy.
Nothing scary scary like blood or a lot of fluid, but it just doesn't look
totally right. Not that I know what totally right looks like tho because I've
never had a kitten this young spayed and I wasn't really given any follow-up
care instructions- just been using my own common sense. But of course, I am
worried. And of course, it's Christmas and that makes it very hard to call
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Thank you for the information Belinda. I am going to read all of it. Gina MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the most important info, i believe, in the last few years, is the research showing a genetic predisposition for the mutation from the usually benign corona virus to the horrible FIP. when i was still involved with VIN (the parent of www.veterinarypartner.com that belinda references), this relationship was just starting to come out, through the Feline Genome Project results from UC Davis and other participants. the winn feline foundation (whose link i don't happen to have right at hand but a search will pull it up, has current position papers on FIV, FeLV and FIP. personally, i disagree with their overly pessimistic stats on both FIV and FeLV, but that's me.) as belinda says, the information is out there and we have a responsibility to make sure that what we don't add to the confusion by repeating stuff that is NOT accurate. (and yes, i STILL haven't found where, exactly, the oft-quoted figure that 70% of healthy adult cats can throw off the FeLV virus. but i'm still looking.) On 6/28/07, Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are some sites with info about FIP. Just because the same misinformation keeps getting repeated isn't going to make it true. To many cats pay with their lives when incorrect information is tossed about. To say a cat is suspected to have FIP is one thing, to say is is confirmed without the proper verification procedures being followed is in my opinion criminal. -- This is from the VeterinaryPartner.com website written and maintained by vets, it is from 2002 so even this is probably no the most accurate info: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=AA=232 FIP effusion fluid is thick, tenacious, straw-colored to deep golden, and clear to slightly cloudy. From another Vet Website, again written in 2002: http://www.vetinfo.com/cencyclopedia/cefip.html When cats have the effusive form of FIP in which abdominal fluid accumulation occurs, the thick, straw colored fluid has characteristics that strongly suggest FIP. It is possible to run a more specialized lab test, a polymerase chain reaction test for FIP, on this fluid. This type of testing is more accurate than FIP antibody testing but still is not definitive. Blood tests to compare the various protein levels in the blood can be very suggestive of FIP infection, as well. High immunglobulin levels are very suggestive of FIP in the presence of clinical signs. Despite all of this, there is no clear-cut way to make a sure diagnosis of FIP prior to death. This person does Dr Addie's website and probably has some of the most current and factual info on FIP: http://www.orionfoundation.com/Information.htm 3) Verify FIP through histopathology. Simply necropsy is not enough. Microscopic evaluation of tissue from biopsy or necropsy by a trained pathologist is considered the only diagnostic proof of FIP. Where available request immunoperoxidase examination of tissue to verify presence of Corona virus in suspect tissue. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 Visit my Tigger Tales site! - Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge (MaryChristine)
My vet has vaccinated his cats against felv every year, and one of his has turned pos. I have heard that it's 70 / 30 crapshoot, but I could be wrong. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Malone To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:26 PM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge (MaryChristine) am really new to this whole situation. Adopted an abandoned tuxie and at 9 months he just got sick. 2 days later he was in massive shock and unable to survive much more. My vet put him down while I held him. He told me he tested positive for Felv. I then brought in my others a 3 year old and a 4 year old. My 4 year old female is negative. My 3 year old male is positive. I have had both since they were kittens and they have always received all vaccinations yearly. I brought a kitten in that was a mess and he spent a week at the vet just trying to save him. He did initially test negative for Felv. He had also received his shots. I don't know what to think, but I am living proof you can vaccinate your cats for years and they can contract this virus. My boy is doing well now. He seems perfectly healthy. I don't know much about this virus but I have learned that vaccinations do not always work. Elizabeth
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Well, you are correct, no vet knows everything. And I can tell you THIS while we are @ it, neither do rescue folks. And it is no small wonder why lots of vet clinics cringe when they see rescue people walk in the door w/ their animals. And as far as killing animals, bad rescue people are right up there w/ bad vets, as well as pseudo sanctuaries. And if I hear of one more person make excuses for these types of people, (they had good intentions, things just got out of handblahblah...blah...) my head will explode while it spins around on my neck and I projectile vomit everywhere. I should know, I have been involved in way too many interventions and animal cruelty cases to even count. And how about them backyard breeders? I have more than my fair share of genetic freaks @ my house due to THEM. Like my Lola, Ursula (both felv+) and Pugsley, (felv- but chronic health problems w/ skin, eyes you can hear him breathe across a room). This particuliar piece of work was trying to invent a new breed...Give me a friggin' break.We didn't call her the Frankenbreeder case for nothing my friend. And then there is my Princess Pearl, which is felv- but came from a confiscation of what USED to be a house of 240+ cats. Well, until the owner died and he wasn't discovered for 2 weeks. Over 120 cats died of starvation during a freak ice storm in SA waiting to be found. What did the survivors eat, you ask? Why, their owner, who had been experimenting on them for years, keeping meticulous notes.(too bad they didn't eat him while he was alive). With 120 cats left, we transferred 56 to the Austin area and I ended up keeping one tiny, malnourished kitty that had rickets so bad she could not use her back legs. All she would do was hide in a corner in my bathroom. And try to put her in a cat carrier and take her to the vet? Impossible She had been shoved into a box where she had been subjected to torture and chemical abuse. I read the notes, I know. Blind cats from experimentation, injected cats, you name it. A true Katzentration Kamp... So, my point is my friend, there are a lot more folks out there killing kitty than just bad vets. And they are all just as bad. And some of these same folks are taking in HUGE donations in the name of charity, and giving the rest of us a bad name. All the while they are tossing the cats outside to live in trees and eat twigs (several sancturaries come to mind), OR, giving them substandard care that is so bad, you would need a shovel to dig yourself into their homes due to the feces... And once again I should know about that too, because that is EXACTLY what I have had to do to rescue cats, FROM RESCUERS. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge Sorry but no vet knows everything ... I personally know of this type of vet worship costing animals their life. Just stating a fact ... take it or leave it. PS. I didn't call any vet a criminal, I said and I quote: To say a cat is suspected to have FIP is one thing, to say is is confirmed without the proper verification procedures being followed is in my opinion criminal. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Oh, I failed to mention this little fact... While I was shoveling cat poop to rescue cats from rescuers, guess who was right there w/ me? MY VET'S WIFE, who is also a trained nurse ANd who performed ALL the vetting on ALL the cats I have mentioned from over the years? PRO BONO? MY VET Dr. Smith, as well as Kelly's vet Dr. Samon. And sometimes I even worked side by side w/ them while they did their thing. ( I also worked @ Dr. Smith's house for 2.5 yrs, everyday, taking care of his 60+ special needs cats. A REAL sanctuary environment). And I have worked w/ enough BAD VETS to know what GOOD VET is like Once again, when you work in a shelter you know ALL the local dirt.And when you know the drug reps you know what happens in the back of the clinic and who has a filthy clinic.. People sure do like to talk. :) And being a petsitter now for 3 yrs., I have dealt w/ some REAL losers masquerading as vets that were hired by my clients. So, yes, there is the good, and there is bad, you I are put on this earth to let everyone know the difference. However, we shall do it in our own way, but it's nice to be fair. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge Sorry but no vet knows everything ... I personally know of this type of vet worship costing animals their life. Just stating a fact ... take it or leave it. PS. I didn't call any vet a criminal, I said and I quote: To say a cat is suspected to have FIP is one thing, to say is is confirmed without the proper verification procedures being followed is in my opinion criminal. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Hey MC, I, too, need to track down that 70% figure. And my understanding is that that is 70% of healthy, *unvaccinated* cats can throw off the virus. So with vaccinated cats it would be even better. Is that your understanding as well? Alley Cat Allies has some good documentation on how spaying and neutering more animals is a better answer to stopping the spread of FELV than is testing. They recommend *not* testing healthy, asymptomatic cats. http://www.alleycat.org/pdf/test.pdf Whenever our feral cat program gets started, that's the way we will operate. If only there were 48 hours in the day:) Kelley On 6/28/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the most important info, i believe, in the last few years, is the research showing a genetic predisposition for the mutation from the usually benign corona virus to the horrible FIP. when i was still involved with VIN (the parent of www.veterinarypartner.com that belinda references), this relationship was just starting to come out, through the Feline Genome Project results from UC Davis and other participants. the winn feline foundation (whose link i don't happen to have right at hand but a search will pull it up, has current position papers on FIV, FeLV and FIP. personally, i disagree with their overly pessimistic stats on both FIV and FeLV, but that's me.) as belinda says, the information is out there and we have a responsibility to make sure that what we don't add to the confusion by repeating stuff that is NOT accurate. (and yes, i STILL haven't found where, exactly, the oft-quoted figure that 70% of healthy adult cats can throw off the FeLV virus. but i'm still looking.) On 6/28/07, Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Here are some sites with info about FIP. Just because the same misinformation keeps getting repeated isn't going to make it true.* *To many cats pay with their lives when incorrect information is tossed about. To say a cat is suspected to have FIP is one thing, to say is is confirmed without the proper verification procedures being followed is in my opinion criminal.* -- * This is from the VeterinaryPartner.com website written and maintained by vets, it is from 2002 so even this is probably no the most accurate info: * http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=AA=232 FIP effusion fluid is thick, tenacious, straw-colored to deep golden, and clear to slightly cloudy. *From another Vet Website, again written in 2002:* http://www.vetinfo.com/cencyclopedia/cefip.html When cats have the effusive form of FIP in which abdominal fluid accumulation occurs, the thick, straw colored fluid has characteristics that strongly suggest FIP. It is possible to run a more specialized lab test, a polymerase chain reaction test for FIP, on this fluid. This type of testing is more accurate than FIP antibody testing but still is not definitive. Blood tests to compare the various protein levels in the blood can be very suggestive of FIP infection, as well. High immunglobulin levels are very suggestive of FIP in the presence of clinical signs. *Despite all of this, there is no clear-cut way to make a sure diagnosis of FIP prior to death.* *This person does Dr Addie's website and probably has some of the most current and factual info on FIP: *http://www.orionfoundation.com/Information.htm *3) Verify FIP through histopathology*. Simply necropsy is not enough. Microscopic evaluation of tissue from biopsy or necropsy by a trained pathologist is considered the only diagnostic proof of FIP. Where available request immunoperoxidase examination of tissue to verify presence of Corona virus in suspect tissue. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.com http://hostdesign4u.com/ BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
I read in multiple literature that 2/3 of cats who were expsed to the virus
will thrwo off the Felk virus as well. One I saw is in the peteducation web
page in felk section about it does not tell where the back up study came from..
Also, one of the medical book I have for cats also say the same thing --
Here's what I copied from the website..from the peteducation.com
What happens to a cat after being exposed to FeLV?
If the cat becomes infected from the exposure, 2-4 weeks later, in the
acutejavascript:popupWin1('/dictionary_term.cfm?term=acutecls=1', 50, 50,
350, 300) stage of infection, large numbers of the virus can be found in the
bloodstream (viremia). Cats in the acute phase usually do not show signs of
disease. If they do, the signs are usually mild fever, slight lethargy, and
swollen lymph
nodeshttp://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=1cat=1352articleid=318
(lymphadenopathy). When an adult cat is exposed to FeLV, four things can happen:
1.. Approximately 30% of adult cats will not be infected due to inadequate
exposure.
2.. 30-35% of adult cats have a transient infection; over the course of 6
months or so, the cats will eventually kill all of the virus.
3.. 5-10% of adult cats will develop
latentjavascript:popupWin1('/dictionary_term.cfm?term=latentcls=1', 50, 50,
350, 300) infections; these cats will not be able to kill all the virus, but
will be able to hold it in check. This is called a latent infection. These cats
usually show no signs of infection and usually do not shed virus in their
saliva or other body secretions.
Queensjavascript:popupWin1('/dictionary_term.cfm?term=queencls=1', 50, 50,
350, 300), however, may still pass the virus in utero or through the milk.
4.. 30% of adult cats will become persistently infected; these cats will not
develop an adequate immune response and will remain permanently infected with
FeLV. These are the cats who will become ill and die of FeLV-related diseases,
usually within 2-3 years of infection. These cats will shed large amounts of
virus in their saliva.
Age is a very important factor in determining what will happen after a cat is
exposed to FeLV. Almost all FeLV-exposed kittens less than 8 weeks of age will
have persistent viremia and show signs of disease during the acute phase. As
kittens get older, there is the probability of becoming persistently infected
after exposure lessens, until it reaches approximately 30% in adulthood.
The prevalence of FeLV infection is highest in cats between 1 and 6 years of
age, with a mean age of 3 years. Males are 1-½ times more likely to be infected
than females. This may be due to the frequency in which intact males roam and
fight.
- Original Message -
From: Kelley Saveikamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Hey MC,
I, too, need to track down that 70% figure. And my understanding is that
that is 70% of healthy, *unvaccinated* cats can throw off the virus. So with
vaccinated cats it would be even better.
Is that your understanding as well?
Alley Cat Allies has some good documentation on how spaying and neutering
more animals is a better answer to stopping the spread of FELV than is testing.
They recommend *not* testing healthy, asymptomatic cats.
http://www.alleycat.org/pdf/test.pdfhttp://www.alleycat.org/pdf/test.pdf
Whenever our feral cat program gets started, that's the way we will operate.
If only there were 48 hours in the day:)
Kelley
On 6/28/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
the most important info, i believe, in the last few years, is the research
showing a genetic predisposition for the mutation from the usually benign
corona virus to the horrible FIP. when i was still involved with VIN (the
parent of www.veterinarypartner.comhttp://www.veterinarypartner.com/ that
belinda references), this relationship was just starting to come out, through
the Feline Genome Project results from UC Davis and other participants. the
winn feline foundation (whose link i don't happen to have right at hand but a
search will pull it up, has current position papers on FIV, FeLV and FIP.
personally, i disagree with their overly pessimistic stats on both FIV and
FeLV, but that's me.)
as belinda says, the information is out there and we have a responsibility
to make sure that what we don't add to the confusion by repeating stuff that is
NOT accurate.
(and yes, i STILL haven't found where, exactly, the oft-quoted figure that
70% of healthy adult cats can throw off the FeLV virus. but i'm still
looking.)
On 6/28/07, Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here are some sites with info about FIP. Just because the same
misinformation keeps getting repeated isn't going to make
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
I counted up the percentages in Hideyo's list and they added up to 70%. K On 6/29/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
by the way, did you know there is a now new type of felk vaccine, much safer than traditional ones -- I will get the name if you guys are not already aware of this. - Original Message - From: MaryChristinemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/ HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
yep, exactly! - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveikamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:11 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge I counted up the percentages in Hideyo's list and they added up to 70%. K On 6/29/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/ HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org http://www.rescuties.org/ Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/carolinehttp://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com http://www.goodsearch.com/- powered by Yahoo!
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
the intranasal one, hideyo? On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by the way, did you know there is a now new type of felk vaccine, much safer than traditional ones -- I will get the name if you guys are not already aware of this. - Original Message - *From:* MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:08 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Can you get it for me just in case my vet does not knowhe keeps up on things..occasionally I can surprise him, like when I found the flourescine dye protocol for telling which kitty is peeing outside the box...but when I asked him about interferon for Suzie he said he already had her on the human..(I know the feline is better but he had her on the human without even being asked). On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by the way, did you know there is a now new type of felk vaccine, much safer than traditional ones -- I will get the name if you guys are not already aware of this. - Original Message - *From:* MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:08 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
yeah, but all of those are not clear, exposure, infection, clearing the virus... but they could be the ones that were initially referenced On 6/29/07, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I counted up the percentages in Hideyo's list and they added up to 70%. K On 6/29/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Sure -- I don't know if it's commercially available right now,, as the pharmaceutical company came over to my vet office to do some test/sample on clinic kitties.. I will get the names for you, though. - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveikamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:17 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge Can you get it for me just in case my vet does not knowhe keeps up on things..occasionally I can surprise him, like when I found the flourescine dye protocol for telling which kitty is peeing outside the box...but when I asked him about interferon for Suzie he said he already had her on the human..(I know the feline is better but he had her on the human without even being asked). On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by the way, did you know there is a now new type of felk vaccine, much safer than traditional ones -- I will get the name if you guys are not already aware of this. - Original Message - From: MaryChristinemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.orghttp://www.rescuties.org/ Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/carolinehttp://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com http://www.goodsearch.com/- powered by Yahoo!
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
No, I think it's a regular injection type. - Original Message - From: MaryChristinemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:15 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge the intranasal one, hideyo? On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by the way, did you know there is a now new type of felk vaccine, much safer than traditional ones -- I will get the name if you guys are not already aware of this. - Original Message - From: MaryChristinemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
To make it simpler - you just have to eliminate the percentagae of this category from 100% 30% of adult cats will become persistently infected; these cats will not develop an adequate immune response and will remain permanently infected with FeLV. These are the cats who will become ill and die of FeLV-related diseases, usually within 2-3 years of infection. These cats will shed large amounts of virus in their saliva. - Original Message - From: MaryChristinemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:17 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge yeah, but all of those are not clear, exposure, infection, clearing the virus... but they could be the ones that were initially referenced On 6/29/07, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I counted up the percentages in Hideyo's list and they added up to 70%. K On 6/29/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/ HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org http://www.rescuties.org/ Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/carolinehttp://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com http://www.goodsearch.com/- powered by Yahoo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
great--whatever info we can share that's accurate is always good! On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I think it's a regular injection type. - Original Message - *From:* MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:15 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge the intranasal one, hideyo? On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by the way, did you know there is a now new type of felk vaccine, much safer than traditional ones -- I will get the name if you guys are not already aware of this. - Original Message - *From:* MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:08 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
If it is that new he is not using it. He uses Meiral. Also the free spay/neuter clinic, where I get my rescue kitties inoculated, uses Meiral. I used to use Dr Samon for injections for all the kittes..but then he doubled his prices...ouch ouch. On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure -- I don't know if it's commercially available right now,, as the pharmaceutical company came over to my vet office to do some test/sample on clinic kitties.. I will get the names for you, though. - Original Message - *From:* Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:17 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge Can you get it for me just in case my vet does not knowhe keeps up on things..occasionally I can surprise him, like when I found the flourescine dye protocol for telling which kitty is peeing outside the box...but when I asked him about interferon for Suzie he said he already had her on the human..(I know the feline is better but he had her on the human without even being asked). On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by the way, did you know there is a now new type of felk vaccine, much safer than traditional ones -- I will get the name if you guys are not already aware of this. - Original Message - *From:* MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:08 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Meiral is supposed to be good - do they use killed vaccine? I here that we should always use Killed version especially for Felk to be safe. - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveikamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:27 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge If it is that new he is not using it. He uses Meiral. Also the free spay/neuter clinic, where I get my rescue kitties inoculated, uses Meiral. I used to use Dr Samon for injections for all the kittes..but then he doubled his prices...ouch ouch. On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure -- I don't know if it's commercially available right now,, as the pharmaceutical company came over to my vet office to do some test/sample on clinic kitties.. I will get the names for you, though. - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveikamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:17 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge Can you get it for me just in case my vet does not knowhe keeps up on things..occasionally I can surprise him, like when I found the flourescine dye protocol for telling which kitty is peeing outside the box...but when I asked him about interferon for Suzie he said he already had her on the human..(I know the feline is better but he had her on the human without even being asked). On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by the way, did you know there is a now new type of felk vaccine, much safer than traditional ones -- I will get the name if you guys are not already aware of this. - Original Message - From: MaryChristinemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.orghttp://www.rescuties.org/ Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/carolinehttp://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com http://www.goodsearch.com/- powered by Yahoo! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.orghttp://www.rescuties.org/ Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/carolinehttp://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
I am not sure if it is killed or not, Hideyo. I'm trying to find out, but haven't found anything so far. I know my vet prefers them to Ft Dodge Most rescuers use Ft Dodge, they are cheaper... On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Meiral is supposed to be good - do they use killed vaccine? I here that we should always use Killed version especially for Felk to be safe. - Original Message - *From:* Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:27 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge If it is that new he is not using it. He uses Meiral. Also the free spay/neuter clinic, where I get my rescue kitties inoculated, uses Meiral. I used to use Dr Samon for injections for all the kittes..but then he doubled his prices...ouch ouch. On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure -- I don't know if it's commercially available right now,, as the pharmaceutical company came over to my vet office to do some test/sample on clinic kitties.. I will get the names for you, though. - Original Message - *From:* Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:17 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge Can you get it for me just in case my vet does not knowhe keeps up on things..occasionally I can surprise him, like when I found the flourescine dye protocol for telling which kitty is peeing outside the box...but when I asked him about interferon for Suzie he said he already had her on the human..(I know the feline is better but he had her on the human without even being asked). On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by the way, did you know there is a now new type of felk vaccine, much safer than traditional ones -- I will get the name if you guys are not already aware of this. - Original Message - *From:* MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:08 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
If I am not wrong, every brand should have modified or killed version -- but am not 100% sure. - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveikamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge I am not sure if it is killed or not, Hideyo. I'm trying to find out, but haven't found anything so far. I know my vet prefers them to Ft Dodge Most rescuers use Ft Dodge, they are cheaper... On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Meiral is supposed to be good - do they use killed vaccine? I here that we should always use Killed version especially for Felk to be safe. - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveikamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:27 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge If it is that new he is not using it. He uses Meiral. Also the free spay/neuter clinic, where I get my rescue kitties inoculated, uses Meiral. I used to use Dr Samon for injections for all the kittes..but then he doubled his prices...ouch ouch. On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure -- I don't know if it's commercially available right now,, as the pharmaceutical company came over to my vet office to do some test/sample on clinic kitties.. I will get the names for you, though. - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveikamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:17 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge Can you get it for me just in case my vet does not knowhe keeps up on things..occasionally I can surprise him, like when I found the flourescine dye protocol for telling which kitty is peeing outside the box...but when I asked him about interferon for Suzie he said he already had her on the human..(I know the feline is better but he had her on the human without even being asked). On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by the way, did you know there is a now new type of felk vaccine, much safer than traditional ones -- I will get the name if you guys are not already aware of this. - Original Message - From: MaryChristinemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.orghttp://www.rescuties.org
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Hi I checked the Merck Vet manual online and it has this information http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/57000.htmword=feline%2cleukemia Sally On 6/29/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior, Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Silver, and Spike Visit my BB for some pictures post your as well. http://www.k6az.net/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
merial vaccines are more pricey, but are considered by many vets to be of the highest quality. On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I am not wrong, every brand should have modified or killed version -- but am not 100% sure. - Original Message - *From:* Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:44 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge I am not sure if it is killed or not, Hideyo. I'm trying to find out, but haven't found anything so far. I know my vet prefers them to Ft Dodge Most rescuers use Ft Dodge, they are cheaper... On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Meiral is supposed to be good - do they use killed vaccine? I here that we should always use Killed version especially for Felk to be safe. - Original Message - *From:* Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:27 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge If it is that new he is not using it. He uses Meiral. Also the free spay/neuter clinic, where I get my rescue kitties inoculated, uses Meiral. I used to use Dr Samon for injections for all the kittes..but then he doubled his prices...ouch ouch. On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure -- I don't know if it's commercially available right now,, as the pharmaceutical company came over to my vet office to do some test/sample on clinic kitties.. I will get the names for you, though. - Original Message - *From:* Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:17 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge Can you get it for me just in case my vet does not knowhe keeps up on things..occasionally I can surprise him, like when I found the flourescine dye protocol for telling which kitty is peeing outside the box...but when I asked him about interferon for Suzie he said he already had her on the human..(I know the feline is better but he had her on the human without even being asked). On 6/29/07, HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: by the way, did you know there is a now new type of felk vaccine, much safer than traditional ones -- I will get the name if you guys are not already aware of this. - Original Message - *From:* MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2007 10:08 AM *Subject:* Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
THANKS, SALLY! damn, one of the things i hate about the merck is that it changes every time you read it! years ago, in the printed version, it talked about research that showed that at least one cat had continued to test positive on the IFA for eight months before going negative, but then they took that reference out. so i've never been able to find it again. and i KNOW that the ~70% figure wasn't right up there last time i looked--and, if you read through the whole thing, they've added back info saying that the IFA results can stay unchanged for up to six months. but this is DEFINITELY a reference we all need to keep handy. On 6/29/07, Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I checked the Merck Vet manual online and it has this information http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/57000.htmword=feline%2cleukemia Sally On 6/29/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior, Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Silver, and Spike Visit my BB for some pictures post your as well. http://www.k6az.net/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3 -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge (MaryChristine)
am really new to this whole situation. Adopted an abandoned tuxie and at 9 months he just got sick. 2 days later he was in massive shock and unable to survive much more. My vet put him down while I held him. He told me he tested positive for Felv. I then brought in my others a 3 year old and a 4 year old. My 4 year old female is negative. My 3 year old male is positive. I have had both since they were kittens and they have always received all vaccinations yearly. I brought a kitten in that was a mess and he spent a week at the vet just trying to save him. He did initially test negative for Felv. He had also received his shots. I don't know what to think, but I am living proof you can vaccinate your cats for years and they can contract this virus. My boy is doing well now. He seems perfectly healthy. I don't know much about this virus but I have learned that vaccinations do not always work. Elizabeth
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
the most important info, i believe, in the last few years, is the research showing a genetic predisposition for the mutation from the usually benign corona virus to the horrible FIP. when i was still involved with VIN (the parent of www.veterinarypartner.com that belinda references), this relationship was just starting to come out, through the Feline Genome Project results from UC Davis and other participants. the winn feline foundation (whose link i don't happen to have right at hand but a search will pull it up, has current position papers on FIV, FeLV and FIP. personally, i disagree with their overly pessimistic stats on both FIV and FeLV, but that's me.) as belinda says, the information is out there and we have a responsibility to make sure that what we don't add to the confusion by repeating stuff that is NOT accurate. (and yes, i STILL haven't found where, exactly, the oft-quoted figure that 70% of healthy adult cats can throw off the FeLV virus. but i'm still looking.) On 6/28/07, Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Here are some sites with info about FIP. Just because the same misinformation keeps getting repeated isn't going to make it true.* *To many cats pay with their lives when incorrect information is tossed about. To say a cat is suspected to have FIP is one thing, to say is is confirmed without the proper verification procedures being followed is in my opinion criminal.* -- * This is from the VeterinaryPartner.com website written and maintained by vets, it is from 2002 so even this is probably no the most accurate info:* http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=AA=232 FIP effusion fluid is thick, tenacious, straw-colored to deep golden, and clear to slightly cloudy. *From another Vet Website, again written in 2002:* http://www.vetinfo.com/cencyclopedia/cefip.html When cats have the effusive form of FIP in which abdominal fluid accumulation occurs, the thick, straw colored fluid has characteristics that strongly suggest FIP. It is possible to run a more specialized lab test, a polymerase chain reaction test for FIP, on this fluid. This type of testing is more accurate than FIP antibody testing but still is not definitive. Blood tests to compare the various protein levels in the blood can be very suggestive of FIP infection, as well. High immunglobulin levels are very suggestive of FIP in the presence of clinical signs. *Despite all of this, there is no clear-cut way to make a sure diagnosis of FIP prior to death.* *This person does Dr Addie's website and probably has some of the most current and factual info on FIP: *http://www.orionfoundation.com/Information.htm *3) Verify FIP through histopathology*. Simply necropsy is not enough. Microscopic evaluation of tissue from biopsy or necropsy by a trained pathologist is considered the only diagnostic proof of FIP. Where available request immunoperoxidase examination of tissue to verify presence of Corona virus in suspect tissue. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
My point is, IF the fluid WAS removed from my cats' bellies, sent off for the more speicalized test that is stated in your email, (which it WAS) and it comes back likely, I would not argue w/ that. And my vet said that it was FIP (Serenity) or it was not (Caspian). He has seen enogh cases, also, to make that statement. Please DO NOT CALL him criminal for telling me so. YOU do not know him.. Apparently we are flogging a dead horse here. I am not going to participate in this type of conversation again. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 5:13 PM Subject: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge Here are some sites with info about FIP. Just because the same misinformation keeps getting repeated isn't going to make it true. To many cats pay with their lives when incorrect information is tossed about. To say a cat is suspected to have FIP is one thing, to say is is confirmed without the proper verification procedures being followed is in my opinion criminal. -- This is from the VeterinaryPartner.com website written and maintained by vets, it is from 2002 so even this is probably no the most accurate info: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=AA=232 FIP effusion fluid is thick, tenacious, straw-colored to deep golden, and clear to slightly cloudy. From another Vet Website, again written in 2002: http://www.vetinfo.com/cencyclopedia/cefip.html When cats have the effusive form of FIP in which abdominal fluid accumulation occurs, the thick, straw colored fluid has characteristics that strongly suggest FIP. It is possible to run a more specialized lab test, a polymerase chain reaction test for FIP, on this fluid. This type of testing is more accurate than FIP antibody testing but still is not definitive. Blood tests to compare the various protein levels in the blood can be very suggestive of FIP infection, as well. High immunglobulin levels are very suggestive of FIP in the presence of clinical signs. Despite all of this, there is no clear-cut way to make a sure diagnosis of FIP prior to death. This person does Dr Addie's website and probably has some of the most current and factual info on FIP: http://www.orionfoundation.com/Information.htm 3) Verify FIP through histopathology. Simply necropsy is not enough. Microscopic evaluation of tissue from biopsy or necropsy by a trained pathologist is considered the only diagnostic proof of FIP. Where available request immunoperoxidase examination of tissue to verify presence of Corona virus in suspect tissue. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Sorry but no vet knows everything ... I personally know of this type of vet worship costing animals their life. Just stating a fact ... take it or leave it. PS. I didn't call any vet a criminal, I said and I quote: *To say a cat is suspected to have FIP is one thing, to say is is confirmed without the proper verification procedures being followed is in my opinion criminal.* -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
That's what I've heard re FIP - the genetic predisposition. And re the stats on FELV, even if you find it, can you find what it's based on? It's easy to throw stats around without much basis. Course I guess I shouldn't complain too loudly, I'd really rather they didn't do a research study on FELV cats by intentionally infecting a bunch of cats with FELV and then killing them... :( Gloria On Jun 28, 2007, at 6:40 PM, MaryChristine wrote: the most important info, i believe, in the last few years, is the research showing a genetic predisposition for the mutation from the usually benign corona virus to the horrible FIP. when i was still involved with VIN (the parent of www.veterinarypartner.com that belinda references), this relationship was just starting to come out, through the Feline Genome Project results from UC Davis and other participants. the winn feline foundation (whose link i don't happen to have right at hand but a search will pull it up, has current position papers on FIV, FeLV and FIP. personally, i disagree with their overly pessimistic stats on both FIV and FeLV, but that's me.) as belinda says, the information is out there and we have a responsibility to make sure that what we don't add to the confusion by repeating stuff that is NOT accurate. (and yes, i STILL haven't found where, exactly, the oft-quoted figure that 70% of healthy adult cats can throw off the FeLV virus. but i'm still looking.) On 6/28/07, Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are some sites with info about FIP. Just because the same misinformation keeps getting repeated isn't going to make it true. To many cats pay with their lives when incorrect information is tossed about. To say a cat is suspected to have FIP is one thing, to say is is confirmed without the proper verification procedures being followed is in my opinion criminal. -- This is from the VeterinaryPartner.com website written and maintained by vets, it is from 2002 so even this is probably no the most accurate info: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=AA=232 FIP effusion fluid is thick, tenacious, straw-colored to deep golden, and clear to slightly cloudy. From another Vet Website, again written in 2002: http://www.vetinfo.com/cencyclopedia/cefip.html When cats have the effusive form of FIP in which abdominal fluid accumulation occurs, the thick, straw colored fluid has characteristics that strongly suggest FIP. It is possible to run a more specialized lab test, a polymerase chain reaction test for FIP, on this fluid. This type of testing is more accurate than FIP antibody testing but still is not definitive. Blood tests to compare the various protein levels in the blood can be very suggestive of FIP infection, as well. High immunglobulin levels are very suggestive of FIP in the presence of clinical signs. Despite all of this, there is no clear-cut way to make a sure diagnosis of FIP prior to death. This person does Dr Addie's website and probably has some of the most current and factual info on FIP: http://www.orionfoundation.com/Information.htm 3) Verify FIP through histopathology. Simply necropsy is not enough. Microscopic evaluation of tissue from biopsy or necropsy by a trained pathologist is considered the only diagnostic proof of FIP. Where available request immunoperoxidase examination of tissue to verify presence of Corona virus in suspect tissue. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP in my house, help
I'm sorry to hear this Kelley. I don't know anything about FIP. I hope you get a lot of good advice from other members. :) Wendy --- Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have the bloodwork results if anyone wants to see them, please email. Thanks, Kelley -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
Re: FIP diagnosis?
Lucy has it with other symptoms, and either has FIP or toxoplasmosis or something like that. Without looking at the fluid there is no way for them to say it is definitely FIP, and if it is FIP she needs steroids more than antibiotics to control the symptoms. I would get her to a bigger vet hospital, vet school hospital, or veterinary referral service to see an internist. There are other things that can distend a stomach besides FIP. Michelle In a message dated 1/24/2007 1:37:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just came home from the vet. Yesterday morning, I noticed that Jilly, my 6 month old foster's stomach had bloated out. Looeds like she had swallowed a water balloon. They said it was all fluid, but couldn't get a sample. They tried and tried. Took x-ray, used a sonogram probe. All fluid. She is acting fine. But they said she might have only a very short time--maybe days. They seem sure it's FIP. They gave me Baytril and said if by some miracle, she's alive in 7 days, come back and get more. Anyone have experience with sudden distension of the stomach?
Re: FIP diagnosis?
Do get her to a bigger vet hospital. FIP is very hard to diagnose and really cannot be diagnosed except by necropsy after an animal has died. Bloodwork and analysis of the fluid can tell you if findings are consistent with FIP but there are other curable causes of the distended belly. Hope for one of those. FIP is always fatal. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Lucy has it with other symptoms, and either has FIP or toxoplasmosis or something like that. Without looking at the fluid there is no way for them to say it is definitely FIP, and if it is FIP she needs steroids more than antibiotics to control the symptoms. I would get her to a bigger vet hospital, vet school hospital, or veterinary referral service to see an internist. There are other things that can distend a stomach besides FIP. Michelle In a message dated 1/24/2007 1:37:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just came home from the vet. Yesterday morning, I noticed that Jilly, my 6 month old foster's stomach had bloated out. Looeds like she had swallowed a water balloon. They said it was all fluid, but couldn't get a sample. They tried and tried. Took x-ray, used a sonogram probe. All fluid. She is acting fine. But they said she might have only a very short time--maybe days. They seem sure it's FIP. They gave me Baytril and said if by some miracle, she's alive in 7 days, come back and get more. Anyone have experience with sudden distension of the stomach?
Re: FIP diagnosis?
At 10:37 AM 1/24/2007, you wrote: Did they do an ultrasoundIs there an obstruction,,Vomiting???A bloated tummy is not a sure diagnosis,,,Need more diagnostic work, Kelly Just came home from the vet. Yesterday morning, I noticed that Jilly, my 6 month old foster's stomach had bloated out. Looeds like she had swallowed a water balloon. They said it was all fluid, but couldn't get a sample. They tried and tried. Took x-ray, used a sonogram probe. All fluid. She is acting fine. But they said she might have only a very short time--maybe days. They seem sure it's FIP. They gave me Baytril and said if by some miracle, she's alive in 7 days, come back and get more. Anyone have experience with sudden distension of the stomach? _ Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into something more. http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitudeFORM=WLMTAG -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 1/23/2007
Re: FIP diagnosis?
It's all fluid, but they couldn't get a sample?! Doesn't that seem weird to you guys? Did they not have an ultrasound machine in the clinic? They should be able to easily find a fluid pocket using ultrasound. Take her to a different vet tomorrow if you can (one with a decent hospital and the proper facilities/technology)! I assume they did OTHER testing to come up with this FIP diagnosis? Please ask them what her feline coronavirus (FCoV) titer was. Ask them what her albumin:globulin (A:G) ratio was in her blood plasma. In FIP, AGP levels are usually greater than 1500 mg/ml. In normal cats, it’s up to 500 mg/ml. What is her Alpha one acid glycoprotein (AGP) level? In FIP, AGP levels are usually greater than 1500 mg/ml. In normal cats, it’s up to 500 mg/ml. Is she jaundiced? Does she have the typical eye symptoms associated with FIP? Does she have neurological signs, ataxia (wobbly and falling over when walking), head tremors, seizures, or are her eyes may dart from side to side? Once you find a better vet (one able to stick a needle in something the size of a grapefruit), take this webpage, print it off, and demand they run these tests: http://www.dr-addie.com/WhatIsFIP.htm#Wet%20or%20effusive%20FIP Phaewryn
Re: FIP diagnosis?
I just realized I posted the AGP normals twice and didn't post the a:g ratios at all... here's that info: In FIP the globulin concentration in serum or plasma is raised to over 40g/l. Consequently the A:G is usually lowered. An A:G of 0.4 indicates FIP is quite likely, provided that globulins are raised, remember than a low albumin (e.g. in liver disease) can also artificially lower the A:G. An A:G of 0.8 rules out FIP; A:G of between 0.4-0.8 - consider other parameters. Phaewryn http://ucat.us Adopt a New England FIV+ cat: http://ucat.us/FIVadopt.html Special Needs Cat Links (and feline info library): http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Declawing Creates SUFFERING, Please don't declaw! http://www.pawproject.com/kona.html
Re: FIP diagnosis?
Yes, very weird indeed. TOO weird. I can not believe that they could not get a sample. I'd be looking for a new (and competent) vet for sure. When I was at the shelter, even us dumb vet techs were able to get fluid samples from those cats suspected of having FIP... The procedure is NOT rocket science.. JMO, Hugs, Patti
RE: fip question
Hi Michelle, Sorry to hear Lucy is having a tough time. I only have limited experience with wet FIP, (12 week old Ally) and that wasn't confirmed by necropsy, but Lucy's symptoms do sound a bit different from what I saw. Ally never seemed to be in any discomfort, even when her belly was quite distended. I found the inappetance and depression to be less of an intermittent problem, and more of something that became gradually worse. She responded very well to antibiotics for her initial URI, but within a couple of days of being off of it would start to sneeze again. Other odd problems cropped up as her immune system began to fail. She had teensy, pin-prick black dots of dried blood in one ear one day, than bright red swimmer's ear a couple of days later in the other ear, then began to get fevers that became less and less responsive to antibiotics. Somewhere between the swimmer's ear and the beginning of the fevers is when I started to notice her belly. It seemed slightly distended (like a wormy kitten), and the area just in front of her hip bones seemed slightly sunken in a triangle shape. It was very slight, but I was worried enough to mention it to the vet when I took her in, but the vet just prodded her a bit and didn't comment. That was on a Thursday, by Sunday there was no question that her belly was filling with fluid, the triangle depression was quite obvious,her spine was protruding, the fever became worse, the antibiotics and steroids were doing nothing, she was glassy eyed and just wanted to snuggle under my chin and purr. This is common enough that FIP is sometimes called the purring disease. I believe that with FIP, once you notice fluid the progression is usually very quick (Ally was maybe 1-1/2 weeks). If Lucy is still eating that is good. Does her spine feels muscled-over and flat, or raised and knobby? I think that Ally's belly felt pretty firm. If Lucy hasn't had any other illnesses (other than the ibd) lately, is eating and active, I would bet that it is ibd discomfort and not worry too much about FIP. Best wishes, Beth Original Message: I spoke to my vet about lucy, and he did not see a reason to bring her in. He agreed that her discomfort for a few hours in the evening is probably related to her ibd and to up her flagyl and pred a little. I have, though, probably irrationally, started worrying about wet FIP. Her sides look a little pooched out to me, which may just be that she had lost some weight for the couple weeks she did not want her turkey mush and looks a bit skinny all over and has just started gaining it back so may be gaining it back in her tummy first. But, not knowing why she is getting uncomfortable for a few hours a day, and being paranoid about fip, I started worrying that maybe the poochiness is fluid accumulation. I looked for a wet fip photo online but can not find one. I found info on wet fip symptoms, and it did say that fluid accumulation can happen slowly and that other symptoms can be intermittent inappetance and depression. Does anyone think she could have fip? When she is not having the discomfort, she is pretty normal, maybe a slight bit less active than usual, but she is eating quite a bit. When cats get wet fip, are the symptoms normally constant? Should I be worried about this? And is fluid accumulation very obviously fluid, or could it look sort of like tummy weight gain (i.e. when I look at her from behind, her butt looks thin and I can see her sides sticking out a bit, rather than just chubby all over like my other cats). Does the fluid feel mush like water, or firm? If I press on her belly, it just feels like her stomach is bigger. Thanks for any thoughts or advice. I think if I call my vet and ask him this he will think I have gone round the bend, but I am feeling anxious. michelle
Re: fip question
Hi Michelle, I'm glad to read that Lucy is feeling better, but just for the reference point: my Hepburn that I lost to wet FIP (also not confirmed with a necropsy), succombed quickly, like Beth said, it was over about a week and a half before I decided that she was suffering more than enjoying life. Funny, one of the things that made the decision so hard is that she would purr. I didn't know that it was called the purring disease, but I did know that purring doesn't always mean content, it can also mean pain or fear. In any event, her belly was quite round - think of a very pregnant horse - or maybe a pregnant cat, I don't know, I've never seen one. No real disguising it. I still get nervous sometimes with Satchmo and Beatrix though - especially Bea since she's longer haired and a kitten, and it's hard to tell if she's fluffy, got a full little belly, or is dying - that's pretty much how my mind works. :) My test is to palpate the tummy when they are standing, if you can feel the ropy/bumpy muscle, connective tissue, whatever, that's in there, then you're fine, if you can press in and there is nothing resisting your fingers, then I would worry. This is not to say that it means wet FIP, it just means that I would worry. Anyway, I am glad that you don't need this info now, but in case it comes up in the future for anyone. By the way, they did draw some of the fluid and tested for lymphoma, it came back negative, so combined with the lethargy, inappetance, and belly...I can't remember if there was a fever, the vet concluded wet FIP. Leslie From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: fip question I spoke to my vet about lucy, and he did not see a reason to bring her in. He agreed that her discomfort for a few hours in the evening is probably related to her ibd and to up her flagyl and pred a little. I have, though, probably irrationally, started worrying about wet FIP. Her sides look a little pooched out to me, which may just be that she had lost some weight for the couple weeks she did not want her turkey mush and looks a bit skinny all over and has just started gaining it back so may be gaining it back in her tummy first. But, not knowing why she is getting uncomfortable for a few hours a day, and being paranoid about fip, I started worrying that maybe the poochiness is fluid accumulation. I looked for a wet fip photo online but can not find one. I found info on wet fip symptoms, and it did say that fluid accumulation can happen slowly and that other symptoms can be intermittent inappetance and depression. Does anyone think she could have fip? When she is not having the discomfort, she is pretty normal, maybe a slight bit less active than usual, but she is eating quite a bit. When cats get wet fip, are the symptoms normally constant? Should I be worried about this? And is fluid accumulation very obviously fluid, or could it look sort of like tummy weight gain (i.e. when I look at her from behind, her butt looks thin and I can see her sides sticking out a bit, rather than just chubby all over like my other cats). Does the fluid feel mush like water, or firm? If I press on her belly, it just feels like her stomach is bigger. Thanks for any thoughts or advice. I think if I call my vet and ask him this he will think I have gone round the bend, but I am feeling anxious. michelle
Re: fip question
At 09:07 AM 1/3/2007, you wrote: Please be careful about the tummy thing. I have a few cats who look like they are pregnantthey are not and healthy.Some have a strange posture combined with obesity,, Lymphoma and several treatable diseases,,It is just not that common in adult cats and frequently has become a catch term we all dread,Titers are useless also,,, Kelly Hi Michelle, I'm glad to read that Lucy is feeling better, but just for the reference point: my Hepburn that I lost to wet FIP (also not confirmed with a necropsy), succombed quickly, like Beth said, it was over about a week and a half before I decided that she was suffering more than enjoying life. Funny, one of the things that made the decision so hard is that she would purr. I didn't know that it was called the purring disease, but I did know that purring doesn't always mean content, it can also mean pain or fear. In any event, her belly was quite round - think of a very pregnant horse - or maybe a pregnant cat, I don't know, I've never seen one. No real disguising it. I still get nervous sometimes with Satchmo and Beatrix though - especially Bea since she's longer haired and a kitten, and it's hard to tell if she's fluffy, got a full little belly, or is dying - that's pretty much how my mind works. :) My test is to palpate the tummy when they are standing, if you can feel the ropy/bumpy muscle, connective tissue, whatever, that's in there, then you're fine, if you can press in and there is nothing resisting your fingers, then I would worry. This is not to say that it means wet FIP, it just means that I would worry. Anyway, I am glad that you don't need this info now, but in case it comes up in the future for anyone. By the way, they did draw some of the fluid and tested for lymphoma, it came back negative, so combined with the lethargy, inappetance, and belly...I can't remember if there was a fever, the vet concluded wet FIP. Leslie From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: fip question I spoke to my vet about lucy, and he did not see a reason to bring her in. He agreed that her discomfort for a few hours in the evening is probably related to her ibd and to up her flagyl and pred a little. I have, though, probably irrationally, started worrying about wet FIP. Her sides look a little pooched out to me, which may just be that she had lost some weight for the couple weeks she did not want her turkey mush and looks a bit skinny all over and has just started gaining it back so may be gaining it back in her tummy first. But, not knowing why she is getting uncomfortable for a few hours a day, and being paranoid about fip, I started worrying that maybe the poochiness is fluid accumulation. I looked for a wet fip photo online but can not find one. I found info on wet fip symptoms, and it did say that fluid accumulation can happen slowly and that other symptoms can be intermittent inappetance and depression. Does anyone think she could have fip? When she is not having the discomfort, she is pretty normal, maybe a slight bit less active than usual, but she is eating quite a bit. When cats get wet fip, are the symptoms normally constant? Should I be worried about this? And is fluid accumulation very obviously fluid, or could it look sort of like tummy weight gain (i.e. when I look at her from behind, her butt looks thin and I can see her sides sticking out a bit, rather than just chubby all over like my other cats). Does the fluid feel mush like water, or firm? If I press on her belly, it just feels like her stomach is bigger. Thanks for any thoughts or advice. I think if I call my vet and ask him this he will think I have gone round the bend, but I am feeling anxious. michelle No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.16.4/615 - Release Date: 1/3/2007
RE: fip question
Michelle - if she is eating well, and has not lost weight, she probably does not have FIP - I lost only one cat to FIP a few years ago and lost 6 to dry --- but what's very consistent is that FIP cats' appetite does go down and star losing weight - if it's wet tip, it progresses very fast - other illness like liver disease can also cause fluid in tummy as well -- so usually with FIP kitty with dry form, they may have lost some weight in other area but has a swollen tummy, my gurfunkle did not have FIP, but passed with liver disease and had fluid in tummy -- _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 11:55 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: fip question I spoke to my vet about lucy, and he did not see a reason to bring her in. He agreed that her discomfort for a few hours in the evening is probably related to her ibd and to up her flagyl and pred a little. I have, though, probably irrationally, started worrying about wet FIP. Her sides look a little pooched out to me, which may just be that she had lost some weight for the couple weeks she did not want her turkey mush and looks a bit skinny all over and has just started gaining it back so may be gaining it back in her tummy first. But, not knowing why she is getting uncomfortable for a few hours a day, and being paranoid about fip, I started worrying that maybe the poochiness is fluid accumulation. I looked for a wet fip photo online but can not find one. I found info on wet fip symptoms, and it did say that fluid accumulation can happen slowly and that other symptoms can be intermittent inappetance and depression. Does anyone think she could have fip? When she is not having the discomfort, she is pretty normal, maybe a slight bit less active than usual, but she is eating quite a bit. When cats get wet fip, are the symptoms normally constant? Should I be worried about this? And is fluid accumulation very obviously fluid, or could it look sort of like tummy weight gain (i.e. when I look at her from behind, her butt looks thin and I can see her sides sticking out a bit, rather than just chubby all over like my other cats). Does the fluid feel mush like water, or firm? If I press on her belly, it just feels like her stomach is bigger. Thanks for any thoughts or advice. I think if I call my vet and ask him this he will think I have gone round the bend, but I am feeling anxious. michelle
RE: FIP
I'm sorry, I didn't see the beginning of this thread. Terri is correct. FIP is a mutation in the Corona virus to a lethal form. Almost all cats have Corona virus,and at this point in time, on one can predict which cat will develop FIP. The screening is virtually useless IMHO. All it does is tell you how much exposure the cat has had. The FVRCP vaccines help protect against some virus associated with Corona. Dede. Not a vet --- Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terri, I overnighted 2 vial of interferon to you - they should arrived this morning - did you get it? I also put a couple of syringes with needles so that you have everything you need - let me know if you have given it to him - sometimes, it causes hyperthermia --- so be prepared.. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:59 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: FIP I want to add that the lab that did the screening on Dukee said he had the Feline Corona Virusgo figure. Yet they say he isn't or is positive for FIP. I'm really screwed up now... :( In a message dated 10/24/2006 7:54:48 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Corona virus is highly contagious through feces and saliva... and it's very common for cats to have - but FIP is not contagious. Terrie Mohr-Forker TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS SIAMESE COLLIE RESCUE Donations accepted at: https://www.paypal.com/ http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescue http://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.html http://www.felineleukemia.org/ http://www.hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.html http://www.petloss.com/ When you are in the service of your fellow beings, you are only in the service of your God Mosiah 2:17 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: FIP
They arrive half hour ago. 1:05 pm my time Pardon me for asking do I use this as if I'm giving vaccinations? If so where do I inject this? I know when I was giving my husband his injections it was wherever he wanted it. Unfortunately the Interferon Treatment didn't work for him for his Hep C. it caused massive side effects as I mentioned to you. I'm not doing anything until I hear from you by email. Sorry my cell phone is charging don't have enough charge in it to call you directly andI'm using home phone for business as I indicated I have dial-up. It's easier for me to retrieve the emails when I'm on. You may email me off the list if you like. "Thank you so much Hideyoyou are a "Godsend"! In a message dated 10/25/2006 11:51:23 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Terri, I overnighted 2 vial of interferon to you – they should arrived this morning – did you get it? I also put a couple of syringes with needles so that you have everything you need – let me know if you have given it to him – sometimes, it causes hyperthermia --- so be prepared.. Terrie Mohr-ForkerTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE COLLIE RESCUEDonations accepted at:https://www.paypal.com/http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescuehttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlhttp://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://www.petloss.com/
Re: FIP
I want to add that the lab that did the screening on Dukee said he had the Feline Corona Virusgo figure. Yet they say he isn't or is positive for FIP. I'm really screwed up now... :( In a message dated 10/24/2006 7:54:48 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Corona virus is highly contagious through feces and saliva… and it’s very common for cats to have – but FIP is not contagious. Terrie Mohr-ForkerTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE COLLIE RESCUEDonations accepted at:https://www.paypal.com/http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescuehttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlhttp://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://www.petloss.com/
Re: FIP
see my other post--as others have said, the only real way to diagnose FIP is post-morten. the titre test proves nothing more than that the cat has been exposed to one of the many corona virii--and a cat can have a very high corona titre one week because there's a new uri in the house, and a normal (?) one the following week. a high corona titre in a cat means nothing in terms of FIP, anymore than a high corona titre in a human means they have SARS (which seems to be a similar mutation) FIP is the worst cat disease, i feel--no preventing it, no predicting who'll get it, no treatment once they do lots of new info in the past few years, lots of research going on, so hopefully this will NOT be true in a few more years. On 10/24/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to add that the lab that did the screening on Dukee said he had the Feline Corona Virusgo figure. Yet they say he isn't or is positive for FIP. I'm really screwed up now... :( In a message dated 10/24/2006 7:54:48 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Corona virus is highly contagious through feces and saliva… and it's very common for cats to have – but FIP is not contagious. Terrie Mohr-Forker TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS SIAMESE COLLIE RESCUE Donations accepted at: https://www.paypal.com/ http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescue http://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.html http://www.felineleukemia.org/ http://www.hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.html http://www.petloss.com/ -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP - thanks MC
seems to happen a lot in kittens around 6-8 months; after that, i haven't seen much of a pattern. but since it's a mutation, and i haven't seen any research on what triggers it, i'm not sure if a declining immune system makes geriatric kitties more susceptible. personally, i don't know of any FIP cats who were more than 3 or 4 years old so much happens to kittens about the time mom's immunities wear out--in the sanctuary, it was the most dangerous time for those born with FeLV; don't know if that plays into the high rate of FIP in that age as well so hard to know what's causative and what's coincidence... (makes sense that when mom's immunities start to wear off in FeLVs, the virus activates--but what explains the other pattern we saw at the sanctuary that the next highest period of illness occurring in FeLV-born cats is about 18-22 months) sherry, maybe you can weigh in with this about doc jen's experiences at crash's landing/sid's place MC On 10/24/06, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks again MC for another informed and easily understandable post about a very scary subject. I go around quoting you all the time. I sent this to Sally Foster, (remember her from the list?). She just lost another one under a year old, poor thing has lost so many this year. She suspects that Peppurr, her latest loss, had FIP. I seem to remember a vet telling me that it usually develops in geriatric cats, or cats under a year. Is that your experience? Nina TenHouseCats wrote: marta, FIP is currently considered to be a mutated corona virus--so the corona virus is contagious (they estimate something like 80-90% of cats in a multi-cat environment will have been exposed to it and show a high titre--roughly the same percentage of humans will show a titre, too, as the corona virii are such common causes of uris in many species...). the mutation, however, is neither predictable nor preventable. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP - thanks MC
I see it usually in kittens between 5 and 10 months. I have a geriatric cat (18) who remains tough and healthy. I have seen it too much in rescue kittens but so far always those under a year. It seems to be triggered by some stressor, very often -- but not always -- hitting within a month of spay/neuter surgery or rehoming. TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: seems to happen a lot in kittens around 6-8 months; after that, ihaven't seen much of a pattern. but since it's a mutation, and ihaven't seen any research on what triggers it, i'm not sure if adeclining immune system makes geriatric kitties more susceptible.personally, i don't know of any FIP cats who were more than 3 or 4years oldso much happens to kittens about the time mom's immunities wearout--in the sanctuary, it was the most dangerous time for those bornwith FeLV; don't know if that plays into the high rate of FIP in thatage as well so hard to know what's causative and what'scoincidence...(makes sense that when mom's immunities start to wear off in FeLVs,the virus activates--but what explains the other pattern we saw at thesanctuary that the next highest period of illness occurring inFeLV-born cats is about 18-22 months)sherry, maybe you can weigh in with this about doc jen's experiencesat crash's landing/sid's placeMCOn 10/24/06, Nina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Thanks again MC for another informed and easily understandable post about a very scary subject. I go around quoting you all the time. I sent this to Sally Foster, (remember her from the list?). She just lost another one under a year old, poor thing has lost so many this year. She suspects that Peppurr, her latest loss, had FIP. I seem to remember a vet telling me that it usually develops in geriatric cats, or cats under a year. Is that your experience? Nina TenHouseCats wrote: marta, FIP is currently considered to be a mutated corona virus--so the corona virus is contagious (they estimate something like 80-90% of cats in a multi-cat environment will have been exposed to it and show a high titre--roughly the same percentage of humans will show a titre, too, as the corona virii are such common causes of uris in many species...). the mutation, however, is neither predictable nor preventable.-- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors!Maybe That'll Make The DifferenceMaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP
Dear Jen, So happy you are all safe and sound! I have about caught up in my email to the description of your evacuation ordeal; my goodness! You might direct this gentleman to Dr. Addie's website: http://www.dr-addie.com/ She has a protocol on there for treatment with human interferon; obviously a better chance would be Virbagen Omega, but an FIP kitty doesn't have time to wait for it (unless he happens to be located where it is available). I believe more and more that there is no single answer to some of these horrible viruses, but rather a combination of therapy. I did start Tater Tot on the human interferon protocol because it was all that was available. She recommends other supplements, too. I couldn't use them all because he would not eat the food with them added and he just gagged terribly if I tried to syringe them in. He was never cooperative about meds, anyway, but if this kitten is, many people have found them to help (cod liver oil, Vitamin C, etc.). FIP is the worst kind of a nightmare. I hope the kitten has been misdiagnosed; it does happen! So happy you and yours are safe! Love, Julie[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All!I just had a very heart-broken man email me about importing Virbagen for his 5 month old kitten who was just diagnosed with FIP...I know some of you have dealt with FIP before (successfully?), and was just wondering if you'd have any advice! I encouraged him to join the list as your advice is invaluable...but I decided not to wait for his reply as (I believe) time is critical when it comes to dealing with FIP!Thanks guys!Jen"But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed..." --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry"If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys." --Chief Dan George"I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man. " "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Mohandas Gandhi (1869-1948)Paws Come WITH Claws!!!If you're thinking about de-clawing your cat, you need to re-think your decision to acquire a pet. Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Re: FIP
Thanks, Julie! I'm still having crazy dreams about running out of gas (and I still find myself looking to see if gas stations have gas as I drive by...yikes)...but other than that, things seem to be back to normal! :) I think the guy who contacted me (James) is looking into importing Virbagen to try to help his fur-baby (Lea)...he found the email (Google) that I had posted to the group as far as writing a letter to the FDA asking for permission to import...I told him if there is anyway his vet can work out something with my vet, I've got the approval letter...it just needs to be ordered! I've had to put off buying it as all available funds are going towards Ewok's chemo...it took nearly a *year* for my vet to finally get approval, I didn't want James to have to wait that long, especially if Lea only has a few months! :( I'll be sure to pass along your email...he and his wife are super-sweet and very heart-broken by the diagnosis...they're willing to try anything! But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed... --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys. --Chief Dan George - Original Message - From: Julie Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:59 am Subject: Re: FIP Dear Jen, So happy you are all safe and sound! I have about caught up in my email to the description of your evacuation ordeal; my goodness! You might direct this gentleman to Dr. Addie's website: http://www.dr-addie.com/ She has a protocol on there for treatment with human interferon; obviously a better chance would be Virbagen Omega, but an FIP kitty doesn't have time to wait for it (unless he happens to be located where it is available). I believe more and more that there is no single answer to some of these horrible viruses, but rather a combination of therapy. I did start Tater Tot on the human interferon protocol because it was all that was available. She recommends other supplements, too. I couldn't use them all because he would not eat the food with them added and he just gagged terribly if I tried to syringe them in. He was never cooperative about meds, anyway, but if this kitten is, many people have found them to help (cod liver oil, Vitamin C, etc.). FIP is the worst kind of a nightmare. I hope the kitten has been misdiagnosed; it does happen! So happy you and yours are safe! Love, Julie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All! I just had a very heart-broken man email me about importing Virbagen for his 5 month old kitten who was just diagnosed with FIP...I know some of you have dealt with FIP before (successfully?), and was just wondering if you'd have any advice! I encouraged him to join the list as your advice is invaluable...but I decided not to wait for his reply as (I believe) time is critical when it comes to dealing with FIP! Thanks guys! Jen But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed... -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys. -- Chief Dan George I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man. The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Mohandas Gandhi (1869-1948) Paws Come WITH Claws!!! If you're thinking about de-clawing your cat, you need to re-think your decision to acquire a pet. - Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
RE: FIP
Hi, Jen, I am sorry to hear about your kitties I am wondering though how your vet came to the conclusion that your kitty has FIP does he have wet form? Its very difficult to diagnose for sure whether a cat has FIP 100% accurately.. and lots of symptoms are similar to other treatable symptoms and I am wondering University of Glasgow (where Dr. addie works) does profile testing for FIP and thats the only place I know of who does such as test as not any one test cannot determine FIP --- and Dr. addie says that 60% of samples who were diagnosed with FIP, actually turns out to be not FIP so I am just curious if you have your kitties blood work, please email me I would to see, if it hasnt done, please run a complete panel Your vet shouldnt have diagnosed without the blood work result anyway.. I am hoping that he has been misdiagnosed as Julie says Hideyo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julie Johnson Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:00 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: FIP Dear Jen, So happy you are all safe and sound! I have about caught up in my email to the description of your evacuation ordeal; my goodness! You might direct this gentleman to Dr. Addie's website: http://www.dr-addie.com/ She has a protocol on there for treatment with human interferon; obviously a better chance would be Virbagen Omega, but an FIP kitty doesn't have time to wait for it (unless he happens to be located where it is available). I believe more and more that there is no single answer to some of these horrible viruses, but rather a combination of therapy. I did start Tater Tot on the human interferon protocol because it was all that was available. She recommends other supplements, too. I couldn't use them all because he would not eat the food with them added and he just gagged terribly if I tried to syringe them in. He was never cooperative about meds, anyway, but if this kitten is, many people have found them to help (cod liver oil, Vitamin C, etc.). FIP is the worst kind of a nightmare. I hope the kitten has been misdiagnosed; it does happen! So happy you and yours are safe! Love, Julie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All! I just had a very heart-broken man email me about importing Virbagen for his 5 month old kitten who was just diagnosed with FIP...I know some of you have dealt with FIP before (successfully?), and was just wondering if you'd have any advice! I encouraged him to join the list as your advice is invaluable...but I decided not to wait for his reply as (I believe) time is critical when it comes to dealing with FIP! Thanks guys! Jen But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed... --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys. -- Chief Dan George I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man. The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Mohandas Gandhi (1869-1948) Paws Come WITH Claws!!! If you're thinking about de-clawing your cat, you need to re-think your decision to acquire a pet. Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Re: FIP
Jen, You may remember, my vet's liaison, Michelle Rose, at Veterinary Medical and Surgical Group in Ventura CA (805-339-2290) has made an FDA packet to streamline the process. She will fax it out to anyone's vet who is interested in getting a special dispensation. She says everything they need to know will be in there, and of course they can call her if there are further questions. Since only vets can apply, only they, or their offices should call. If she's not available, have your vet leave their voice and fax numbers on her voice mail. Prayers to this poor man and his baby, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All! I just had a very heart-broken man email me about importing Virbagen for his 5 month old kitten who was just diagnosed with FIP...I know some of you have dealt with FIP before (successfully?), and was just wondering if you'd have any advice! I encouraged him to join the list as your advice is invaluable...but I decided not to wait for his reply as (I believe) time is critical when it comes to dealing with FIP! Thanks guys! Jen But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed... --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys. -- Chief Dan George
Re: FIP
Isn't FIP a mutation of one of the corona viruses based on the cats own genetic makeup, or something like that? Gloria On Jun 12, 2005, at 9:55 PM, catatonya wrote: I think they are saying now that it's really not that 'catchy' because it's caused by a corona virus that most cats are or will be exposed to already. It's just that most cats exposed to the various viruses do not come down with fip and a few do. t [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was already afraid of that. How catchy is it for my other cats? How again is that spread- we never see it at my clinic- isn't it pretty uncommon these days or am I confusing with another infectious disease? She is too young for the baby aspirin or should i say too thin, she does not weigh enough to even qualify for the smallest possible dose. We just started her on a 2nd antibiotic so fingers are crossed. I can't believe she's still eating!! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/06/12 Sun PM 02:20:21 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: 6 week old kitten fever question I don't mean to scare you, but it could be FIP. Has your vet mentioned using baby aspiring to bring down the fever? It worked with Ginger. Adult cats can get one baby aspirin every three days (too much aspirin can kill cats). I have no idea how much a kitten that small would get, or if it is even safe, so please do not try it without talking to the vet first. Michelle
Re: Re: FIP
from what i understand FIP is the body's response to the mutated corona virus. i think its the virus itself not the bodies genetics but the viruses. there are many corona viruses (kind of like breeds of cats) and every once in a while there is mutation (kind of like double paws). michelle really gets this one.. an I in the right track michelle? kristi From: Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/06/13 Mon AM 11:19:18 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: FIP Isn't FIP a mutation of one of the corona viruses based on the cats own genetic makeup, or something like that? Gloria On Jun 12, 2005, at 9:55 PM, catatonya wrote: I think they are saying now that it's really not that 'catchy' because it's caused by a corona virus that most cats are or will be exposed to already. It's just that most cats exposed to the various viruses do not come down with fip and a few do. t [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was already afraid of that. How catchy is it for my other cats? How again is that spread- we never see it at my clinic- isn't it pretty uncommon these days or am I confusing with another infectious disease? She is too young for the baby aspirin or should i say too thin, she does not weigh enough to even qualify for the smallest possible dose. We just started her on a 2nd antibiotic so fingers are crossed. I can't believe she's still eating!! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/06/12 Sun PM 02:20:21 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: 6 week old kitten fever question I don't mean to scare you, but it could be FIP. Has your vet mentioned using baby aspiring to bring down the fever? It worked with Ginger. Adult cats can get one baby aspirin every three days (too much aspirin can kill cats). I have no idea how much a kitten that small would get, or if it is even safe, so please do not try it without talking to the vet first. Michelle
Re: Re: FIP - Good Explanation
http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/health/FIP.html[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: from what i understand FIP is the body's response to the mutated corona virus. i think its the virus itself not the bodies genetics but the viruses. there are many corona viruses (kind of like breeds of cats) and every once in a while there is mutation (kind of like double paws). michelle really gets this one.. an I in the right track michelle?kristiFrom: Gloria Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: 2005/06/13 Mon AM 11:19:18 EDTTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: FIPIsn't FIP a mutation of one of the corona viruses based on the cats own genetic makeup, or something like that?GloriaOn Jun 12, 2005, at 9:55 PM, catatonya wrote: I think they are saying now that it's really not that 'catchy' because it's caused by a corona virus that most cats are or will be exposed to already. It's just that most cats exposed to the various viruses do not come down with fip and a few do. t [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was already afraid of that. How "catchy" is it for my other cats? How again is that spread- we never see it at my clinic- isn't it pretty uncommon these days or am I confusing with another infectious disease? She is too young for the baby aspirin or should i say too thin, she does not weigh enough to even qualify for the smallest possible dose. We just started her on a 2nd antibiotic so fingers are crossed. I can't believe she's still eating!! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/06/12 Sun PM 02:20:21 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: 6 week old kitten fever question I don't mean to scare you, but it could be FIP. Has your vet mentioned using baby aspiring to bring down the fever? It worked with Ginger. Adult cats can get one baby aspirin every three days (too much aspirin can kill cats). I have no idea how much a kitten that small would get, or if it is even safe, so please do not try it without talking to the vet first. Michelle
RE: Re: FIP
Kristi, there is a really active support group for FIP - they are many many supportive educated people on the list - you might want to visit tem (it's [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think - Also, you might want to visit the below website - this is the excellent website for FIP - there is a doctor called, Dr. Addie who has dedicated her last two decades to FIP research - she is at University of Glasgow - she is a very caring person as far as I can tell. There is really no 100% accurate diagnostic method until after the fact, but it gives you lots of information as many of FIP symptoms are similar to lots of other illness which can be treatable - also recently dr. Addie reported in her newsletter that 25% of FIP cases had a success treating them with Interferon as well - if you send a blood sample she can run blood analysis (they look at combinations of different things)whether the kitty has FIP or not - I think 75% or 80 % of samples sent to her ended up not being FIP according to her blood analysis. I have many corona virus kitties, so I educated my self at lot on this subject for the past several years - the fever could be something else - please don't worry - I have kittens who developed 106 or 107 fever for a week or more and I was very worried, but ended up not being FIP (it happened to several of my kitties) I pray that your kitty will get better very very soon. Dr. Addie's website on FIP http://www.dr-addie.com/ \ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 5:32 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Re: FIP thanx all for the great info. I feel better about my cats being exsposed to her but am still concerned as to wether or not she has FIP. It almost temp taking time I'll let you know. Kristi From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Karolyn Lount) Date: 2005/06/12 Sun PM 07:12:39 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: FIP Hi, If it is FIP you may be in luck as I was. I had 18 FeLV+ cats and was fostering a cat that turned out to have FIP and had to be put down. I sweated it out for several mos. and I was very lucky that to my knowedge none of my cats came down with it. If they did they were able to fight it off. My Vet told me it would be a waste of my money to have them tested for it. He told me if they did have it there was nothing I could do about it. Many cats are able to fight it off and they might end up being a carrier. That was 10yrs. ago and todate I have not had a cat show signs of having it.
RE: Re: FIP
thank you that info was great, her fever is gone, but i'm stll taking her in for some routine bloodwork because she is still always sleeping and very quiet- she doesn't play at all. I'm pretty sure she just needs to put some weight in and get her strength back- but better safe than sorry. I'll let you all know what her blood work says. From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/06/13 Mon PM 12:02:26 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Re: FIP Kristi, there is a really active support group for FIP - they are many many supportive educated people on the list - you might want to visit tem (it's [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think - Also, you might want to visit the below website - this is the excellent website for FIP - there is a doctor called, Dr. Addie who has dedicated her last two decades to FIP research - she is at University of Glasgow - she is a very caring person as far as I can tell. There is really no 100% accurate diagnostic method until after the fact, but it gives you lots of information as many of FIP symptoms are similar to lots of other illness which can be treatable - also recently dr. Addie reported in her newsletter that 25% of FIP cases had a success treating them with Interferon as well - if you send a blood sample she can run blood analysis (they look at combinations of different things)whether the kitty has FIP or not - I think 75% or 80 % of samples sent to her ended up not being FIP according to her blood analysis. I have many corona virus kitties, so I educated my self at lot on this subject for the past several years - the fever could be something else - please don't worry - I have kittens who developed 106 or 107 fever for a week or more and I was very worried, but ended up not being FIP (it happened to several of my kitties) I pray that your kitty will get better very very soon. Dr. Addie's website on FIP http://www.dr-addie.com/ \ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 5:32 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Re: FIP thanx all for the great info. I feel better about my cats being exsposed to her but am still concerned as to wether or not she has FIP. It almost temp taking time I'll let you know. Kristi From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Karolyn Lount) Date: 2005/06/12 Sun PM 07:12:39 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: FIP Hi, If it is FIP you may be in luck as I was. I had 18 FeLV+ cats and was fostering a cat that turned out to have FIP and had to be put down. I sweated it out for several mos. and I was very lucky that to my knowedge none of my cats came down with it. If they did they were able to fight it off. My Vet told me it would be a waste of my money to have them tested for it. He told me if they did have it there was nothing I could do about it. Many cats are able to fight it off and they might end up being a carrier. That was 10yrs. ago and todate I have not had a cat show signs of having it.
Re: FIP - Good Explanation
Thanks - interesting article - note re developing FIP: genetic susceptibility, the presence of cats that are shedders, and cat-dense environments. What are the factors that predispose a small percentage of cats with FECV to the development of FIP? Research is currently trying to find more answers to this question, but some facts are becoming clear. Dr. Janet Foley and Dr. Niels Pedersen of the University of California at Davis have identified three key risk factors: genetic susceptibility, the presence of chronic FECV shedders, and cat-dense environments that favour the spread of FECV. ... Gloria On Jun 13, 2005, at 10:43 AM, Joan Doljan wrote: http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/health/FIP.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: from what i understand FIP is the body's response to the mutated corona virus. i think its the virus itself not the bodies genetics but the viruses. there are many corona viruses (kind of like breeds of cats) and every once in a while there is mutation (kind of like double paws). michelle really gets this one.. an I in the right track michelle? kristi From: Gloria Lane Date: 2005/06/13 Mon AM 11:19:18 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: FIP Isn't FIP a mutation of one of the corona viruses based on the cats own genetic makeup, or something like that? Gloria On Jun 12, 2005, at 9:55 PM, catatonya wrote: I think they are saying now that it's really not that 'catchy' because it's caused by a corona virus that most cats are or will be exposed to already. It's just that most cats exposed to the various viruses do not come down with fip and a few do. t [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was already afraid of that. How catchy is it for my other cats? How again is that spread- we never see it at my clinic- isn't it pretty uncommon these days or am I confusing with another infectious disease? She is too young for the baby aspirin or should i say too thin, she does not weigh enough to even qualify for the smallest possible dose. We just started her on a 2nd antibiotic so fingers are crossed. I can't believe she's still eating!! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/06/12 Sun PM 02:20:21 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: 6 week old kitten fever question I don't mean to scare you, but it could be FIP. Has your vet mentioned using baby aspiring to bring down the fever? It worked with Ginger. Adult cats can get one baby aspirin every three days (too much aspirin can kill cats). I have no idea how much a kitten that small would get, or if it is even safe, so please do not try it without talking to the vet first. Michelle
RE: Re: FIP
Please do - I will be sending a healing energy for your kitties! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 10:09 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Re: FIP thank you that info was great, her fever is gone, but i'm stll taking her in for some routine bloodwork because she is still always sleeping and very quiet- she doesn't play at all. I'm pretty sure she just needs to put some weight in and get her strength back- but better safe than sorry. I'll let you all know what her blood work says. From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/06/13 Mon PM 12:02:26 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Re: FIP Kristi, there is a really active support group for FIP - they are many many supportive educated people on the list - you might want to visit tem (it's [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think - Also, you might want to visit the below website - this is the excellent website for FIP - there is a doctor called, Dr. Addie who has dedicated her last two decades to FIP research - she is at University of Glasgow - she is a very caring person as far as I can tell. There is really no 100% accurate diagnostic method until after the fact, but it gives you lots of information as many of FIP symptoms are similar to lots of other illness which can be treatable - also recently dr. Addie reported in her newsletter that 25% of FIP cases had a success treating them with Interferon as well - if you send a blood sample she can run blood analysis (they look at combinations of different things)whether the kitty has FIP or not - I think 75% or 80 % of samples sent to her ended up not being FIP according to her blood analysis. I have many corona virus kitties, so I educated my self at lot on this subject for the past several years - the fever could be something else - please don't worry - I have kittens who developed 106 or 107 fever for a week or more and I was very worried, but ended up not being FIP (it happened to several of my kitties) I pray that your kitty will get better very very soon. Dr. Addie's website on FIP http://www.dr-addie.com/ \ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 5:32 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Re: FIP thanx all for the great info. I feel better about my cats being exsposed to her but am still concerned as to wether or not she has FIP. It almost temp taking time I'll let you know. Kristi From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Karolyn Lount) Date: 2005/06/12 Sun PM 07:12:39 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: FIP Hi, If it is FIP you may be in luck as I was. I had 18 FeLV+ cats and was fostering a cat that turned out to have FIP and had to be put down. I sweated it out for several mos. and I was very lucky that to my knowedge none of my cats came down with it. If they did they were able to fight it off. My Vet told me it would be a waste of my money to have them tested for it. He told me if they did have it there was nothing I could do about it. Many cats are able to fight it off and they might end up being a carrier. That was 10yrs. ago and todate I have not had a cat show signs of having it.
Re: FIP
I was already afraid of that. How catchy is it for my other cats? How again is that spread- we never see it at my clinic- isn't it pretty uncommon these days or am I confusing with another infectious disease? She is too young for the baby aspirin or should i say too thin, she does not weigh enough to even qualify for the smallest possible dose. We just started her on a 2nd antibiotic so fingers are crossed. I can't believe she's still eating!! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/06/12 Sun PM 02:20:21 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: 6 week old kitten fever question I don't mean to scare you, but it could be FIP. Has your vet mentioned using baby aspiring to bring down the fever? It worked with Ginger. Adult cats can get one baby aspirin every three days (too much aspirin can kill cats). I have no idea how much a kitten that small would get, or if it is even safe, so please do not try it without talking to the vet first. Michelle
Re: FIP
It's great she is eating. FIP in itself is not contagious, according to current thinking in the veterinary community. They think it is caused by a mutation of a corona virus, but there are many corona viruses and most cats carry them and in most cats it never mutates. Corona viruses are very contagious, so contagious that I think the majority of cats have been exposed to them and test positive for them. So if your kitten has FIP (hopefully not), your other cats probably all carry a corona virus already but it does not mean any of theirs will mutate. Mutation is very rare, and so FIP is rare. But there seems to be some anecdotal correlation between FeLV and mutation, in that there is some thought that more cats with FeLV might have viruses mutate into FIP than among negatives. But even so, most FeLV+ cats who carry a corona virus do not experience a mutation into FIP. Hope this is helpful. I learned all of this when I took in one of my positives and then learned she had been exposed to a cat with FIP, and I did a bunch of research and called an FIP expert at Cornell and learned the above information, at which point I released her into the house with the others. It is 3 years later and she is still with me (Patches), though one of my cats who died may have died of the dry form of FIP (though it was more likely lymphoma). Michelle In a message dated 6/12/05 2:24:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was already afraid of that. How "catchy" is it for my other cats? How again is that spread- we never see it at my clinic- isn't it pretty uncommon these days or am I confusing with another infectious disease? She is too young for the baby aspirin or should i say too thin, she does not weigh enough to even qualify for the smallest possible dose. We just started her on a 2nd antibiotic so fingers are crossed. I can't believe she's still eating!!
Re: Re: FIP
Thank you for that info on FIP, that makes me feel safer for my others, another question.. can she survive it if she has it, what are the survival rates? Thanx again Kristi From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/06/12 Sun PM 02:46:39 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: FIP It's great she is eating. FIP in itself is not contagious, according to current thinking in the veterinary community. They think it is caused by a mutation of a corona virus, but there are many corona viruses and most cats carry them and in most cats it never mutates. Corona viruses are very contagious, so contagious that I think the majority of cats have been exposed to them and test positive for them. So if your kitten has FIP (hopefully not), your other cats probably all carry a corona virus already but it does not mean any of theirs will mutate. Mutation is very rare, and so FIP is rare. But there seems to be some anecdotal correlation between FeLV and mutation, in that there is some thought that more cats with FeLV might have viruses mutate into FIP than among negatives. But even so, most FeLV+ cats who carry a corona virus do not experience a mutation into FIP. Hope this is helpful. I learned all of this when I took in one of my positives and then learned she had been exposed to a cat with FIP, and I did a bunch of research and called an FIP expert at Cornell and learned the above information, at which point I released her into the house with the others. It is 3 years later and she is still with me (Patches), though one of my cats who died may have died of the dry form of FIP (though it was more likely lymphoma). Michelle
Re: FIP
In a message dated 6/12/2005 2:24:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't mean to scare you, but it could be FIP. Michelle, Some years ago, one of my "fosters" developed a very high fever of unknown origin She was small too, but my vet did advise rubbing cotton swabs soaked w/ rubbing alcohol and dabbing them on her paws and behind her ears. It did work very well refucing fever... When I rushed her to vet her temp was above 106 we really thought we'd lose her. She got IV fluids and was old enough for IV AB's. Her abdomen was "slightly" distended, so among all other tests we did run the corona titres. She came back w/ titre so high it was OFF the charts, But. there are SO many corona viruses, you can not get a TRUE definitive diagnosis without a necropsy. And, she continued to improve, so that was totally out of the question. At the time, I had many fosters, and I had another boy develop the FUO. However, his corona titres were within "normal" range. Sadly, I did lose 2 of my boys, most likely to FIP a year or so later..one wet, one dry. I also refused necropsies because the damage was done and I did NOT want to panic living in a multi cat household. Three years ago I did lose a tiny kitten to FIP, The shelter insisted on a necropsy it was confirmed, My Sweet Little Magpie 1. Luckily, she was never in with my other cats. To this day, Meisha, the first girl w/ high corona titre, is very healthy and, although her titres remain high, she has not been sick since. There is so much we do not know about FIP and I do beat myself up wondering if Meisha is a "carrier" of the deadly strain and if that played any part in the deaths of Oden and Dusty. But, you just make yourself crazy second guessing..I wish you the best with your little bundle of joy. Just give her vet care and ALL your love. Hugs, Patti
Re: FIP
Hi, If it is FIP you may be in luck as I was. I had 18 FeLV+ cats and was fostering a cat that turned out to have FIP and had to be put down. I sweated it out for several mos. and I was very lucky that to my knowedge none of my cats came down with it. If they did they were able to fight it off. My Vet told me it would be a waste of my money to have them tested for it. He told me if they did have it there was nothing I could do about it. Many cats are able to fight it off and they might end up being a carrier. That was 10yrs. ago and todate I have not had a cat show signs of having it.
Re: Re: FIP
thanx all for the great info. I feel better about my cats being exsposed to her but am still concerned as to wether or not she has FIP. It almost temp taking time I'll let you know. Kristi From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Karolyn Lount) Date: 2005/06/12 Sun PM 07:12:39 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: FIP Hi, If it is FIP you may be in luck as I was. I had 18 FeLV+ cats and was fostering a cat that turned out to have FIP and had to be put down. I sweated it out for several mos. and I was very lucky that to my knowedge none of my cats came down with it. If they did they were able to fight it off. My Vet told me it would be a waste of my money to have them tested for it. He told me if they did have it there was nothing I could do about it. Many cats are able to fight it off and they might end up being a carrier. That was 10yrs. ago and todate I have not had a cat show signs of having it.
Re: FIP
I think they are saying now that it's really not that 'catchy' because it's caused by a corona virus that most cats are or will be exposed to already. It's just that most cats exposed to the various viruses do not come down with fip and a few do. t[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was already afraid of that. How "catchy" is it for my other cats? How again is that spread- we never see it at my clinic- isn't it pretty uncommon these days or am I confusing with another infectious disease?She is too young for the baby aspirin or should i say too thin, she does not weigh enough to even qualify for the smallest possible dose. We just started her on a 2nd antibiotic so fingers are crossed. I can't believe she's still eating!! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/06/12 Sun PM 02:20:21 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: 6 week old kitten fever question I don't mean to scare you, but it could be FIP. Has your vet mentioned using baby aspiring to bring down the fever? It worked with Ginger. Adult cats can get one baby aspirin every three days (too much aspirin can kill cats). I have no idea how much a kitten that small would get, or if it is even safe, so please do not try it without talking to the vet first. Michelle
