Re: [neonixie-l] Nixie thermometer in Elektor journal

[JohnK]

I have an old 'condenser' marked in cm [centimetre/centimeter].
One recent doc explaining this early use of centimeter ...
http://web.mit.edu/sahughes/www/8.022/lec06.pdf
"In cgs units, we measure charge in esu and potential in esu/cm. The unit of 
capacitance is thus just the centimeter!"


jk


- Original Message - 
From: "John Rehwinkel" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:46 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Nixie thermometer in Elektor journal


...clip.
Agreed!  As I got into electronics at an early age, I was already familiar 
with the prefixes (pico, micro, milli, kilo, mega, and so forth).  For some
reason, "nano" seemed to get left out for a while (as "pico" did, back in 
the days when a 200pf capacitor would be referred to as a "200mmf 
condenser").


clip 


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Re: [neonixie-l] Steampunk Nixie Watch battery life

[JohnK]

Nice report [and I like the tone].
That photo of watch is interesting - I hadn't looked at yours before; was 
waiting for firm results.


Good job,
congrats
John K
Australia

- Original Message - 
From: "Michel" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:23 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Steampunk Nixie Watch battery life



Over the past few weeks I did some extensive tests for battery life of
my Nixie Watch.
...clip... 


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Re: [neonixie-l] IN-18 Nixie Clock on BBC for coming Olympic Games

[JohnK]

There are applications available on-line to allow overseas people to view BBC 
[expatriots use them]. 

one is "Expat Shield allows you to Watch UK TV online outside of UK. You can 
now watch BBC iplayer from anywhere in the world."

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Tidak Ada 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:16 AM
  Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] IN-18 Nixie Clock on BBC for coming Olympic Games


  Unfortunately this is only visible in the UK, thanks to the BBC  !

  eric



--
  From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of kosbo.com
  Sent: dinsdag 17 juli 2012 23:47
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
  Subject: [neonixie-l] IN-18 Nixie Clock on BBC for coming Olympic Games


  Hi All,
  As you probably know, Olympic Games are due to start in 10 days, so BBC has 
created a series of documentary films about past Olympic Games  within last 100 
years 
  and one film has my IN-18 clock on it.  If anybody interested, here is direct 
link:
  
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00v9gnx/Faster_Higher_Stronger_Stories_of_the_Olympic_Games_Swimming/

  Best wishes, Konstantin


   

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie supplier for your projects

[JohnK]

The 'fact' that he is [apparently] reliable is probably discount enough.
John K.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Dave 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 12:25 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie supplier for your projects


  Vitaly,
  How about giving us the name of your company and website?
  Also, how about offering the group a discount to try your products?

  On Friday, July 27, 2012 8:07:50 PM UTC-4, Vitaly Nart wrote:
Hi, I am glad that many peoples have interest in nixie tubes. We can 
offer you many nixie tubes of Soviet Union for your new projects. 
There are many IN and IV types of tubes in my stock. Our company 
accept Paypal and we can give you reasonable prices, datasheets and 
charakteristics of tubes for your projects. I f you have interest in, 
please contact with us. 
Regards 
Vitaly 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Design my own Nixie Clock?

[JohnK]

From my experience of modern devices I suspected that they are extinct.



John K.
[Some background in industrial engineering, ergonomics  and 
design-for-manufacture (which of course musn't nullify the user and repairer 
aspects).] Yeah I know "repair, what's that?"  Goes to show my age.


- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Jacobs" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Design my own Nixie Clock?


Also, I should add This is the reason that there is such a thing as a 
"User Interface Engineer".


;)
.clip... 


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Re: [neonixie-l] RS232 line driver

[JohnK]

I thought that the 'dead' band for 232 was -3V to +3V.
I have used 5V with printers and modems of the 1970s/80s.

Some 'cheap' RS232 drivers only used -5V and Gnd.eg the Microbee 
computer.


Over short distances all sorts of liberties can be taken - it works; just 
don't call it 232 !


John K
Australia


- Original Message - 
From: "David Forbes" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] RS232 line driver



On 8/23/12 11:46 PM, Michel wrote:

I am after a driver like the MAX232 that has 5V levels on one side;
+/- 5 on the other side and only requires a +5V supply. The MAX232
however is a 16 pin device and I am looking for something smaller (8
pins). I only need one Rx and one Tx channel.

I am also thinking, maybe I don't need one and just use 0V and 5V
levels rather than -5V and +5V, but not sure if that will work.

Anybody knows more about that?

Michel




The problem is that an RS-232 driver must make more than 5V to meet the 
spec., so it will have four capacitors to make +/-10V from +5V, needing 
more than 8 pins.


There is another spec RS-423 which is 5V, but I don't think there are any 
drivers for it that run from +5V only. The standard river is the MC3488A, 
which requires +/-5V.


--
David Forbes, Tucson AZ

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: RS232 line driver

[JohnK]

RS232 spec is a range of voltage. There is a spec for the max supply volts 
and a clarification for the 'logic' level.
eg -16 to -3 is one 'level' and +3 to +16 is the other. [I'll dig out my 
copy if needed.]
Many receivers don't implement the dead area and some don't require the 
change of polarity, just a change to Gnd.


John K.

- Original Message - 
From: "Michel" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 5:22 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: RS232 line driver


I just want to establish some serial communication between my computer
and a PIC controller. Like David mentioned, RS232 is actually +/- 10V
rather than +/- 5V. The levels directly from controller are obviously
only 0V and 5V. Now I am thinking, for the Rx input this is not a
problem because it will easily handle the +/- 10V input signals if I
add a series resistor. But the Tx output needs to go from 0V/5V to +/-
10V which is normally done with a MAX232 for example. The MAX has 4
line converters (2 input; 2 output) but I only need 1 for my Tx
signal. So I was after something smaller like an 8 pin or even a 5 pin
driver that works on just a +5V supply.

Michel



On Aug 24, 5:43 pm, Dalibor Farnı  wrote:

Hello, look on rs485. I played with it a lot, ready to answer Your
questions :-) it works for long distances and allows more devices on one
line (bus).

Try to describe your devices more..

Dalibor Farnıhttp://dalibor.farny.cz

sent from Samsung Galaxy Pad
Dne 24.8.2012 7:46 "Michel"  napsal(a):







> I am after a driver like the MAX232 that has 5V levels on one side;
> +/- 5 on the other side and only requires a +5V supply. The MAX232
> however is a 16 pin device and I am looking for something smaller (8
> pins). I only need one Rx and one Tx channel.

> I am also thinking, maybe I don't need one and just use 0V and 5V
> levels rather than -5V and +5V, but not sure if that will work.

> Anybody knows more about that?

> Michel




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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Elektronika 7-06M

[JohnK]

Careful, I thought that you would need to reconnect BOTH wires because of 
phase.


John K.

- Original Message - 
From: "Konstantin" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Elektronika 7-06M


...clip...
Clock transformer  has 2 winds rated for 110volts connected in series, so I
believe,
it's quite simple to re-solder one wire for  one wind use for 110-120Vmains,
as in USA.



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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Elektronika 7-06M

[JohnK]

Ah, I expected you to use both primaries still.
To do that the primaries have to be kept in the same phase.
Thus the wire of Primary 2 that was common with Primary 1 has to be moved to 
the opposite end of Primary 1. The other end of Primary 2 now has to be 
moved to where the original common point was at the end of Primary 1.


eg S= start of winding, E = end of winding, 1 = pri one, 2 = pri two..

originally 230V  :-
S11ES22E

intended 115V :-

S111E
S222E

John K.
[power reasons as in Charles' post]








- Original Message - 
From: "Konstantin" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 3:28 AM
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Elektronika 7-06M



Hi John,

I thought that instead of 2 serial connected winds, for 110V supply to use
only 1 wind, so there is  no cross phase  problem there. Or am I missing
something?

Best regards, Konstantin
www.kosbo.com


-Original Message-
From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of JohnK
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 2:29 PM
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Elektronika 7-06M

Careful, I thought that you would need to reconnect BOTH wires because of
phase.

John K.

- Original Message -
From: "Konstantin" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Elektronika 7-06M


...clip...
Clock transformer  has 2 winds rated for 110volts connected in series, so 
I

believe,
it's quite simple to re-solder one wire for  one wind use for 
110-120Vmains,

as in USA.





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Re: [neonixie-l] My first two-digit Nixie tube!

[JohnK]

They are cute !
Make more and do a Binary Clock. Use relays/valves  if you don't want to rig 
semis for the 550V+ .


John K
Australia


- Original Message - 
From: "jb-electronics" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:26 AM
Subject: [neonixie-l] My first two-digit Nixie tube!



Hi folks,

I did it: I have just built my first two-digit Nixie tube! I call her 
"NX-LS-1".


She contains the digits 0 and 1 as well as a zig-zag anode. Filling is (as 
usual) air at 15mbar. I will have my needle valve shortly, then I will be 
able to do some neon thingies.


See some pictures here:

http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_1.jpg
http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_2.jpg

The digits glow in a nice purple, but my camera has a hard time to grasp 
the color. The truth is somewhat in between the very purple and very blue 
color in the following pictures:


http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_3.jpg
http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_4.jpg
http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_5.jpg
http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_6.jpg
http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/nx-ls-1_7.jpg

Jens

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: OT - Raspberry Pi $25 credit card size Unix box

[JohnK]

Just noticed this posted on a WS19 group by a G3:-
"Yet another noisy piece of kit to mess up the airwaves.
I plugged in my new Raspberry computer. It seems to work OK but then I read 
the back of the slip of paper that fell out of the box (the only paperwork 
supplied in fact).
It's EMC compliant only with "Class A" requirements, or in other words it's 
only good for operating in a commercial environment.
It actually states that it will cause harmful radio interference in a 
residential area.
As the Raspberry Pi is most definitely sold for home use the phrase (which 
I'm paraphrasing slightly) "the user must pay for preventing it from 
interfering with radio sets" comes into play. Fat chance it's even possible.
Does anyone remember the good old days when you could listen on 20 metres 
and the background noise was so low you almost hear a pin drop in 
Australia?"


John K

- Original Message - 
From: "Quixotic Nixotic" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: OT - Raspberry Pi $25 credit card size Unix 
box





On 4 Sep 2011, at 07:10, Nick wrote:


I've been watching this for a while since Rory Cellan-Jones
(pronounced "Keth-lan"-Jones) first mentioned it (I went to school
with him) - what puzzles me is who is funding it? They are all
Cambridge-based (the UK one) and have some good people on board...


Cambridge Uni funding? Certainly access to their resources. David  Braben, 
the god who wrote the game Elite (among others), is possibly  rich enough 
to put some of his own money into it, as are some of the  others. It's a 
charitable foundation.


The avowed intention is to encourage children to program as they did  in 
the early days of home computers, so I expect there will be a  whole suite 
of software and hardware add-ons to promote that, which  in turn will be 
relevant to people such as us who like to make things  work. Isn't it 
going to make an Arduino look rather archaic?


John S

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Re: [neonixie-l] Harwell Computer

[JohnK]

That is what I remember hearing.
I offered them tubes on their list and a lead on the trigger tubes they 
needed - got the intial discussion and then nothing. At that stage the 
message was that they needed a whole complement of tubes. BUT, they must 
actually have had the bulk of them already and just needed a few 
replacements and spares.


John Kaesehagen
Australia




- Original Message - 
From: "Quixotic Nixotic" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Harwell Computer




On 20 Nov 2012, at 10:38, Tom Nolan wrote:


It's so beautiful!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20395212

Cheers,
Tom


Is that the one Nicko donated tubes to and they never even said thank you?

John S

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Re: [neonixie-l] Harwell Computer

[JohnK]

So, did they actually have most of the tubes already?
I can't imagine them finding such a quantity of some of them.

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jon 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 6:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Harwell Computer


  I'll (slightly) stick up for the WITCH restoration team... I too donated some 
dekatrons, but because I live only an hour away I used the donation as an 
excuse to go see the WITCH in person :)  This was 2+ years ago, and the machine 
was very definitely non-functional due to power supply problems. I spent a very 
happy couple of hours there chatting to the chap heading the restoration, 
sharing some dekatron knowhow and taking photos. At that time they were very 
approachable, grateful for the tubes & input etc. If I remember the blog 
entries correctly, the team had significant changes in personnel due to 
illness. Perhaps they dropped the ball in the changeover with respect to 
thanking others who were generous with their tubes...

  It is just the most amazing device, and I'm impressed that they've managed to 
save it. BTW, you'll notice that there are a mixture of orange and purple 
dekatrons shown in the video - these are GC10B and GC10A respectively. They've 
deliberately replaced some of the GC10A with GC10B because the glow is much 
more visible for public display. The design does have one or two selector 
dekatrons also in control circuits, but the vast majority of the tubes are just 
counters.

  Jon.

   

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Sgitheach web page update

[JohnK]

Valve [tube] filaments [heaters/cathodes in this case] generally do not have 
life extended by running lower power.
Cathode emission is complex and heater should be run within the specs. That 
spec is not just to achieve maximum rated emission.


Some oscilloscopes had a connection for cathode modulation of brightness.

John K.

- Original Message - 
From: "Michel" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 7:45 AM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Sgitheach web page update


Great design and source of information Graham! Fantastic.

Just wondering about 1 thing, is it possible to adjust the brightness
of the scopeclock according to the ambient light? Usually you would
use the control grid of course, but what it you would adjust the
current through the filament? It would both lower the power
consumption and increase the life of the tube, I would expect?

The IN9 / IN13 bargraph clock is my next project!! Tubes are on the
way but hope I will have some time to work on it :-)

Michel



On Dec 12, 12:51 am, Grahame Marsh 
wrote:

Hi

I have added a webpage where I test a variety of other small CRTs with
the scope clock 2 hardware.

http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/scope2a.html

This page will continue to carry updates as I trial other CRTs and other
PSU configurations. I'm still extending the range of clock faces and
adding multi language support.

The rubidium oscillator clock workover is completed and the designs are
all here. The complete software including the source code written using
the free GCC -AVR C complier is available for download.

http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/atomic.html

The Giant 7 "Jon Ellis" Segment Clock page now has the software (again
GCC-AVR) available for download.

http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/ss.html

Cheers Grahame


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Off topic Circuit for automatic cat door.

[JohnK]

Yes Lucky I agree. [And I have several cats].
Years ago I supported this Weisling when I thought 'down on his luck', but 
subsequent events have shown me to be wrong in that.
I found the original/initial recent fishing expedition re the FLW clock in bad 
taste in this venue.
This Weisling is trying to Weisle its way back and I vote NO !

Sometimes you just gotta let go.

John Kaesehagen
Australia.
[I applied the Christmas Spirit and considerably toned-down my thoughts !]
  - Original Message - 
  From: Lucky 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 5:34 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Off topic Circuit for automatic cat door.


  Ermm and you find the mutilation of an animal ok?
  You find terrorising another animal ok?
  You think the extermination of a group by unnatural means (a 'domestic' cat 
is not natural) is ok?
  "A fellow cat lover told me that once they trimmed off their cat's whiskers 
and the can would be ware of going from room to room in the house especially if 
the door was partly closed leaving a narrow gap." this is what 'cat lovers' do??

  I'm sorry but I have got to say this, personally I do not particularly like 
cats (yet they always seem to find me as a 'friend'. I will always pet them if 
they desire etc) but find this post so offensive. It borders, no IS cruelty to 
trim a cats whiskers, it is cruel to allow, worse encourage your domesticated 
cat to 'exterminate' a complete colony of a different species!
  I have not spoken on this thread before becuase of my bias of not being a 
'cat lover' but gotta say just close your windows peoples, stop worrying 
whether they can get in or out that's what DOORS are for! If you can't mange 
that don't have a cat period!
  When you start thinking/saying "My hunter cat, a GENTLE calico, would bring 
home SLAIN squirrels" you have lost the plot somewhere along the line, 
exterminating an entire colony via a 'domesticated' animal is WRONG!


  On Friday, 28 December 2012 07:07:29 UTC, Raymond Weisling wrote:
About 1977 I had two cats and a 24/7 cat flap, but a stray was coming in 
during the night and getting food left  for the residents. I breadboarded a cat 
discriminator. It used two telephone relay coils that could detect a small 
magnet passing between them, added to the cat collars and a light bulb plus 
detector (photoresistor). If the magnetic signal was triggered and a cat 
entered, it was a resident, if the non-resident entered, not wearing the 
magnet, it sounded an alarm. I added  larger flap made from cardboard and a 
solenoid that allowed the large flap to fall and close off the smaller flap so 
no exit was possible. The no-exit flap solenoid was actually manually energized 
by touching two wires together on the end of a cable that ran to my bedroom. 
Everything was rather crude. I expected that I needed it once. 

After I installed it I tested it with my cats with and without collars and 
it seemed to work well.

That same night at around 02:00 the alarm sounded, I touched the wires 
together, the larger flap fell and I went out. The non-resident, hearing me 
stirring, made a mad dash for the door and hit the large flap covering the 
bidirectional flap. I tried to catch this panicking cat, and in the process the 
breadboard and the lamp, photoresistor and coils all came undone from their 
temporary mounts. It was a jumble.

The non-resident had to be chased around the house, leaping up at closed 
windows, and eventually I caught him, and trimmed off his whiskers with a 
scissors. This is a very powerful yet harmless reminder since they depend on 
them for feeling for passages that their body can get through. (A fellow cat 
lover told me that once they trimmed off their cat's whiskers and the can would 
be ware of going from room to room in the house especially if the door was 
partly closed leaving a narrow gap.) They will be disoriented for some months 
until new whiskers grow back. A good reminder. 

I finally opened the door and released the non-resident, who seemed to 
traverse the back yard that was a least 15 meters (or 40-some feet) long in 
three or four leaps. He never again appeared. The damaged cat discriminator was 
summarily taken apart. I remember using LM324 and LM 339 in the circuit.

One of the cats was a great hunter, and I lived north of the San Fernando 
Valley in foothill areas (Newhall, CA) where some ground squirrels lived. My 
hunter cat, a gentle calico, would bring home slain squirrels and leave various 
parts somewhere in the house as a token of her skill, for me to find and clean 
up when I got home. This happened on a nearly daily basis one spring. 
Eventually it stopped and I found that the nearby colony has been totally 
exterminated by my calico. For a while I had wondered what it would take to 
build a prey discriminator that could block her entry only when she carried a 
victim, but even now I suspect that that is a much greater challen

Re: [neonixie-l] Multiplexing nixies in a tube preamplifier

[JohnK]

I would have thought that with 10 being the maximum loudness then having one 
that goes to 11 for extra loudness would be marvellous !

For anyone who hasn't heard the joke
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_to_eleven

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Michel van der Meij 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 9:18 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Multiplexing nixies in a tube preamplifier


  Hi Tim,

  Not that I want to influence your design but it sounds a bit odd to have the 
nixies go from 0 to 63 in a valve (pre)amplifier. It is really related to 
something digital that IMHO doesn't really match a design of a valve amplifier. 
I think it is nicer if it would go from 0 to 99. If you use a few latches 
before the 74141 that would solve all your limited I/O problems. Another thing 
that comes to mind is using an IN-13 bar graph tube to indicate the position of 
the volume button.

  Michel






  on Jan 05, 2013, Tim  wrote:

Hi,

Thank you for your reply David.  My reason for multiplexing was due to not 
having enough spare pins on the PIC, however having givin this considerable 
thought I have the IO pins that were being used to switch the MSD and LSD anode 
transistors and a third IO pin which was available to control the enable pin 
for the tayloredge SMPS, so by using these three pins allows me to to have 0 - 
7 on the MSD which is great as I wanted 64 steps to indicate  the volume 
control potentiometer position.  

Sadly there is a but to this (is there not always) I need to be able to 
blank the digits which normally involves using all 4 bits of the 74141.  Now as 
I do not need 7 - 9 I was thinking I could shift all the digits along one 
position, so 0 in the nixie is connected to 1 on the 74141 1 to 2 and so on.  
This results in being able to blank the nixie by sending 000 to ABC and having 
D permanently tied to ground.  This digit shift being easy to work around in 
the firmware.

I can position the SMPS in such a way that it will not interfere with the 
audio signal path so I would like to try and stick with it for the nixie HT 
supply as the valve HT supply has a delayed start to give chance for the soft 
started heaters to warm up. I want the volume indication to come on at power up 
with a possible count down on it to show the remaining warm up time. 
Additionally to this I am trying to keep the analogue and digital power rails 
separate from one another.

This is where my questions begin:  Can I leave the cathodes 7 - 9 
floating or do they need to be tied to something? Will floating digits 
ghost? I would also like to 
keep my enable signal to disable the SMPS when the amplifier is in standby 
so can I use the now unused 0 output on the 74141 as a logic 
signal to drive the enable pin on the SMPS?  The only trouble with this is 
when blanking the nixie the SMPS will be disabled unless I use extra logic to 
look at the LSD bits?  (I guess it is quite environmentally friendly to turn 
the SMPS off when the digits are blank but if I was worried about this then I 
guess I would not be building a power hungry inefficient valve amplifier!)

Regards,
Tim



On Wednesday, 2 January 2013 22:25:13 UTC, nixiebunny wrote:
  On 1/2/13 3:01 PM, Tim wrote:

  > I am in the process of building an audio preamp using valves and I am

  > using nixie tubes to indicate the volume control position.  I am using

  > two nixie tubes to indicate the volume and they are being multiplexed

  > via a PIC and 74141.

  >

  > My question to you fine folk is how should I provide power to the nixie

  > tubes.  I have two options available to me:

  >

  >

  > Regards,

  > Tim



  Tim,



  If you can afford the extra four pins on the PIC and another 74141, then 

  you can run the tubes direct (non-multiplexed) and not worry about it.



  If you will be multiplexing them, then the power supply will not conduct 

  the noise to any noticeable extent. You will need a high anode  resistor 

  value, so you can insert a simple two-stage RC low-pass filter (10K 

  series, 0.1uf polyester shunt) between the power supply and the anode 

  resistors to eliminate noise from the anode power.



  You will want to be careful about mounting the display unit away from 

  the input stage of the amplifier, to prevent radiated noise from getting 

  into the input stage where it will be amplified.



  -- 

  David Forbes, Tucson AZ










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For more opti

[neonixie-l] clock

[JohnK]

http://m.9gag.com/gag/6305358

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MTX-90 in counting circuit?

[JohnK]

I have a brochure from a British valve maker saying that once they solved the 
interface resistance problem for computer valves they used the same cathodes in 
all the valves.
I think that all the old era triodes and double-triodes are ok. I wonder if the 
current Chinese valves are.

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Tidak Ada 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:12 PM
  Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: MTX-90 in counting circuit?


  Problem with thermionic tubes are the vulnerability to a kind of cathode 
poisoning due to lack of current in 'zero time' and the high power consumption.

  Best should be 'computer grade tubes' like E90CC and E92CC They have 
specially coated cathodes

  eric

--

  From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Smiffy
  Sent: donderdag 31 januari 2013 6:38
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MTX-90 in counting circuit?


  On Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:30:50 PM UTC+10:30, threeneurons wrote:

Unfortunately, the only trigger that has the proper signal levels to 
commutate a dekatron properly is the Ericsson GTE175M...


  Ah, that's a shame - on the basis that the XD18 is to be had plentifully, and 
at a sensible price.


  Wonder if it's possible to replace a thermionic triode with a transistor of 
some description - rather than going the microcontroller route, which I still 
think seems to be a bit of an overkill, and not really in keeping with the 
aesthetic I'm looking for.


  20V in, 60V down - just an inverter with a gain of 3, isn't it?


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MTX-90 in counting circuit?

[JohnK]

When the subject came up on TCA a few years back I pointed to the published 
statement... it was generally agreed there that all companies used improved 
cathodes. I don't remember whether anyone came up with a black and white 
statement like the one I had.

I'll ask again.

A quick look at Kohl [the 1960 edition] reveals that the cathode is 
extremely complex. Interface resistance affected all tubes but only some 
circuits were particularly sensitive to it. The problems experienced in 
wideband scope circuits comes to mind.
As the component production methods and controls improved I think that 
better quality materials came cheaper and were able to be used wider. That 
effect can be seen in most electronics - eg resistors.


The broad statements about computer tubes and interface resistance aren't 
correct.
Quoting from "Electron Tube Life Factors", US Army Signal Corps Development 
Lab, Ft Monmouth, 1959.

" Cathode Interface Resistance.
Cathode interface resistance was measured by Burroughs Corporation on the 
tubes of the second life test run only for dynamic and static conditions. 
The tubes of the cutoff conditions were life tested during the second run 
only and all of them were measured for cathode interface resistance. 
Burroughs reported that continual calibration of the McNarry bridge for 
measuring interface resistance was made by artificial impedance networks and 
by means of stabilized calibrated tubes. Although correlation with other 
interface resistance tests were not fully satisfactory, the results were 
consistent and reproducible on the equipment used.


The values of interface resistance measured at the end of the 5000-hr life 
test are listed in Table 12-10 for the three test conditions in the order of 
increasing silicon content in the cathode sleeves. The pattern of growth of 
interface resistance is not uniform for all of the tube types. Only for 
Types JAN-6AG7 and JAN-6AN5 did interface resistance grow to high values for 
low duty factor and smaller values for high duty factor. The cathode sleeves 
of these two types had the largest and the smallest amounts of silicon. 
Those tubes having intermediate percentages of silicon departed from the 
pattern of the high-silicon tubes and in two cases (Types JAN-5687 and 
JAN-12AT7) the tubes on cutoff operation had the smallest values of 
interface resistance. This is the reverse of what has come to be expected."


The paragraphs following this discuss the spectrographic examination and the 
correlation to the actual tubes tested. Some of the data "should be assumed 
to have questionable validity".
But a conclusion was still stated..." The evidence of this life test and 
spectrographic analysis does not indicate any conclusive pattern of growth 
for interface resistance."


It is interesting that the results of the JAN-12AT7 surprised them.
"The pattern of interface resistance growth was unusual in that th etubes on 
cutoff life test conditions developed the smallest resistance, 2 ohms, 
during the 5000 hr. The tubes life tested under dynamic conditions, which 
were equivalent to the cutoff condition in this task, developed 46 ohms of 
interface resistance. Surprisingly, the tubes life tested under standard MIL 
conditions developed the highest interface resistance. This was 220 ohms at 
5000 hr. The reason for this behavior is not readily apparent. The cathode 
sleeve material was analyzed by Burroughs Corporation and found to contain a 
small percentage of silicon, 0.016 percent. This amount is small enough for 
the cathode to be considered to be made of passive material and not to 
contribute greatly to the growth of interface resistance."


This brings me back to the complexity issue. The mechanisms were not fully 
understood or characterised. For some tube type results the conclusion was 
along the lines of   eg JAN-7AK7 "The silicon content of the cathode sleeves 
is relatively low at 0.015 percent, and this undoubtedly contributes to the 
low interface resistance values in all of the tube lots."

It is an interesting 173 page book.

Interface resistance is a problem, to varying degrees, in dynamic circuits. 
Manufacturers would have striven to produce the 'perfect' cathode - I want 
to see more hard data. Obviously costs have to be considered, but 
manufacturers can't afford to be plagued with erratic unexplained failures 
and 'modern' production techniques rely on statistical control. The complete 
short term  failure of the very important proximity fuze program is an 
example that did occur. One manufacturer was able to make reliable filaments 
[much to the chagrine of the competitors].
However, when that particular single billet of tungsten was exhausted that 
manufacturer began to suffer the same failures. The not-so-large piece of 
tungsten made an incredibly large number of filaments; the wire was so fine.



John Kaesehagen
Australia.





jk
- Original Message - 
From: "John Rehwinkel" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, Febr

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Circuit diagram for the Russian A-201 polyatron?

[JohnK]

I am keen to get an OCR for Russian [to scan a  book on avionics and 
aircraft instruments and translate it]

Any tips appreciated.
John K.


- Original Message - 
From: "Marcin" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 2:15 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Circuit diagram for the Russian A-201 
polyatron?




I use google plus several years of my primary education. I was taught
Russian in the school. Hardly remember anything now. I am attaching
pages I have (in Russian but with a poor OCR).
...clip 


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Re: [neonixie-l] Janus the two-faced nixie?

[JohnK]

I like the NOS definitions.   see   item  121091873560
There is a line lower down  
Actual NOS (Some Tubes Test NOS but have a few hours on them): No

Have a look at the envelope !
I guess NOS can mean 'old valve in the box the new one came out of.'

John K.






- Original Message - 
  From: Quixotic Nixotic 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 7:55 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Janus the two-faced nixie?


  Who was Janus? Not sure I heard of them before. Is this a nixie?


Mouse over to zoom
  -
  Click to enlarge
   

  Ebay 121091885353
  NOS Janus USA CK8754 Nixie Tube 8754

  John S

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Re: [neonixie-l] Testing nixies/dekatrons/neon bulbs without powersuply

[JohnK]

I haven't tried, but scope clock is likely a relatively low voltage compared 
to TV screens.
My old 5BP1 tube works OK at less than 2kV and the old b/w TVs were say 10kV 
and colour say 25kV.

John K.



- Original Message - 
From: "Sture Nystrom" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Testing nixies/dekatrons/neon bulbs without 
powersuply




Does anyone know if the trick is possible to do with a Scopeclock?

Sture



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Re: [neonixie-l] Nixie driver problem when going over 170 VDC

[JohnK]

Sergio, I am not sure if you think that Per is having a go at you. He won't be. 
If you look back at the topics in this group at both Google Groups and at Yahoo 
Groups you will find a lot of discussion of power supply merits and pitfalls.
Maybe you have not been in the group for very long; those that have will have 
an automatic reaction to topics that have been discussed to death.
There is a wealth of info in the 'archives'.

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: nix 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Nixie driver problem when going over 170 VDC


  Hi Per,
  I found some errors myself, which I would like to correct in version 2 of the 
pcb. 
  Your comments below unfortunately do not help at all. What exactly is wrong 
with the layout of the SMPS
  Thank you for your input.


  Sergio

  ...clip...

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Re: [neonixie-l] 866 Mercury Vapor Rectifier as Novelty Lamp

[JohnK]

Much UV leak out do you think?

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: threeneurons 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:03 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] 866 Mercury Vapor Rectifier as Novelty Lamp


  I went to the TRW swap meet on Saturday, and picked up a 866 mercury vapor 
rectifier. The thing has a 2.5V 5 amp filament. Good thing I had this large 
transformer in my stash with a 2.1V tap. Needed less than 50V to light it up, 
and get the emission up to get more than 50mA thru. Tube is rated for 250mA max 
average.By sticking a 2200uf cap across the the tube, plate to cathode, it 
turns into a relax oscillator. Tube drop is only 11V. I never had a relax osc, 
that couldn't bite me. Even though this rectifier was intended for use in power 
supplies capable of delivering thousands of volts, this circuit is quite 
harmless, until the glass breaks:


  
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x10b9ux_866-rectifier-as-relax-osc-flashing-light_tech#.UaXI2tKXSSo



  Enjoy

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Re: [neonixie-l] 866 Mercury Vapor Rectifier as Novelty Lamp

[JohnK]

The small QI/Halogen downlight globes come/came in a couple of styles one 
with the small QI/Halogen lamp at the centre of the reflector and open at the 
front; the other had a glass plate across the mouth / front of the reflector. 
That glass is for UV reduction. Don't know if it is special glass.
The desk lamps [mainly fancy Italian designer models] that use QI/Halogen 
globes have been criticised; some have no extra piece of anti-UV glass and 
apparently with those that do many people leave it off when they replace a 
globe. [And others said the glass was to stop people touching the halogen globe 
- because apparently the finger grease causes hotspots and globe explosions 
(??)]. 
I only know of this because of workplace reforms some years ago... there was a 
purge of these 'dangerous' items.

I still worry about the use of 2 foot and 3 foot etc 20W/ 40W fluorescent 
tubes. Especially for bench work up close. There is definitely leakage at the 
ends where the phosphor doesn't extend. In our kitchen we had a twin 40W 
fitting with diffuser. There was an identical one in the store room. The 
diffuser in the kitchen turned to yellow crumbs and collapsed after a few years 
use. The one in the store room [rarely used] stayed OK. Neither were subject to 
direct sunlight. I blamed the UV rather than heat.

I haven't kept up with LED technology but I do remember reading that a version 
of white LED used a UV LED with a phosphor.

Hope someone comes up with some quantitative details on this subject.

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: threeneurons 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 2:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] 866 Mercury Vapor Rectifier as Novelty Lamp




  Any kind of filter I can stick on this thing to block the UV ? Tinted Acrylic 
? 


Much UV leak out do you think?

  ..clip..

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Re: [neonixie-l] Abridged summary of neonixie-l@googlegroups.com - 10 Messages in 2 Topics

[JohnK]

Well Done That Man !
When I hoped for some quantitative observations I really did not hold much 
hope.


John K.
- Original Message - 
From: "ron" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Abridged summary of neonixie-l@googlegroups.com - 
10 Messages in 2 Topics




Hello!
All the hoopla about uv from the 866 got me to set one up and measure it. 
I operated the tube with a 30ma sign transformer so it was not anywhere 
near its full capacity but it had a nice blue glow between the cathode 
cylinder and the anode. Using an ultraviolet meter calibrated to right at 
full scale when pointed at the sun, there was absolutely no reading from 
the 866. (the meter has no response whatsoever to visible light, no matter 
how bright) So, the glass used in making the tube is apparently chosen to 
absorb all of the UV. To test this theory I cut open the 866 (horrors!) 
and took a piece of the envelope glass out into the sun with the meter. 
The glass had minimal effect on the UV! So much for that theory! So the 
866 glow apparently does not have much UV at 30 ma. Not much glow to look 
at either though. Be a lot better to repackage the guts and fill it with 
argon for a display lamp I would think. I'll do it when I get a chance and 
post a youtube on it.
Oh, by the way. To the horror of the mercury vapor, I took the mercury 
vapor meter (yes, I have fantastic equipment!) and did some measurements 
around the broken tube. Right at the tube glass the meter pegged full 
scale on the least sensitive range. Moving back a foot the meter barely 
moved on the most sensitive range. (factor of 1000 more sensitive) Moving 
back 3 feet, there was no detectible mercury reading at all. Mercury is a 
very heavy molecule. Like a rock sinks in a pond, mercury vapor sinks in 
the atmosphere to form a thin layer along the floor. Unless you have quite 
a draft it stays down there. I certainly do not propose slopping mercury 
all over the place though!

ron  (glasslinger)



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Re: [neonixie-l] Help needed with taylor 1363 smps

[JohnK]

So much for using webmail [I don't see quoted text]... I went off to look at 
the data after reading Tony's post and the reply went to John R's post ; he  
already said the main thing - DC. 
Try a battery?

And maybe just a resistor from enable to rail I should have said. Have you made 
a connection between Enable and Rail that can't be interrupted? Don't rely on 
clips; solder a link/resistor Enable to rail ?

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: yend...@internode.on.net 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 1:40 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Help needed with taylor 1363 smps


  I haven't use the smps but noticed that the spec sheet says that a floating 
Enable can destroy the module. Have you had power ON and no connections to the 
Enable? Safer to wire it to a pot?

  Are you supplying smooth DC to it?



  john k 




- Original Message -
From:
neonixie-l@googlegroups.com

To:


Cc:


Sent:
Tue, 16 Jul 2013 12:04:14 -0400

Subject:
Re: [neonixie-l] Help needed with taylor 1363 smps


> Hello all and greetings from a new member and first time poster,I'm 
trying to figure out how to use these little 1363 smps from taylor 
electronic,I've tried using it in this configuration "always on",I'm using a 
9vdc 1000ma wallwart and have the +(plus) wire going to Vn and enable and the 
-(minus) wire going to ground but I get nothing out of the HV out,can anyone 
with expierience with these please for the sake of my sanity please show/tell 
me how I get these things to work,it looks simple but I just can't get it to 
work,thanks much in advance

Sounds like it should work, yes. Here's what I would check if I were doing 
it. I'd check that wall wart to see if it was producing clean DC - many of them 
just give half-wave rectified DC with no filtering or regulation. Adding a 
capacitor (to filter and smooth it out) will help if this is the case, and 
adding a voltage regulator can help even more. That particular module doesn't 
like being turned on and off rapidly, so half-wave DC will make it unhappy. I'd 
also make sure I have the pinout right - an ohmmeter can verify that what are 
supposed to be the ground pins are all connected together.

- John

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[neonixie-l] LED watch

[JohnK]

Done in LEDs do it in VFD?

John K.


http://www.hammacher.com/Product/81916?source=cj&PID=7060520&cm_mmc=CJ-_-1583972-_-1727683-_-Hammacher+Product+Catalog&utm_source=Affiliate&utm_medium=CPA&utm_campaign=CJ

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Something for the tube/nixie making people?

[JohnK]

Am I missing something here ? - the capillary is open both ends and gets pumped 
down with the tube doesn't it, so air doesn't matter.

Or, are sealed ampules always made?
 I follow that a capillary can be used to gather up a known amount 
'automatically'. Is that then emptied [blown?] into something else or used open 
or used sealed etc.

Some more detail please
John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dalibor Farný 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 6:35 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Something for the tube/nixie making people?







  2013/8/30 Nick 

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Dekatron42

  Sent: woensdag 28 augustus 2013 23:29

  To: neoni...@googlegroups.com

  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Something for the tube/nixie making people?



  If I remember correctly there is at least one patent on Nixies that 
mentions 2.5mg and/or 3.5mg of mercury, and it also discusses several methods 
of releasing the mercury from the small glass capsules - I can't find the 
patent right now but I think it was a patent by Burroughs as I remember that 
one picture showed exactly how they have done it in their B5092 Nixie.




ISTR that this was done by having the Hg in a small piece if glass 
capillary tube (a few mm long, maybe 4mm?) and released by induction heating. 
This is how the Hg was measured too - just dip the end of the small capillary 
tube in to a pool of Hg and a standard amount is drawn up. You can see these 
empty capillaries in the bases of some larger tubes...








  There should not be any air in the capillary, You have to prepare a procedure 
on its end will be a small sealed capilalry tube with tiny drop of mercury but 
*without* air, just a vapours of mercury. Once cubic millimeter of air will 
have a volume of 40 cubic millimeters in a tube with pressure around 20torr and 
that would certainly lead to shorter lifetime.. The getter could take care 
about it, but it is quite clumsy solution. 




  -- 
  Dalibor Farny
  http://dalibor.farny.cz



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Re: [neonixie-l] Another progress in making nixies

[JohnK]

Dalibor I posted a copy of this at the Tube Collectors Association group - 
hope you are OK with that.
Congratulations on the work - I have followed your posts and said little. I am 
very envious.
John Kaesehagen
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dalibor Farný 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 6:00 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Another progress in making nixies


  Hello guys,


  I think I can call this first my first nixie tube ;-)






  ...clip...



  More on my blog: http://dalibor.farny.cz/big-progress-lab-sample-no-3/


  Dalibor


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Seasonal greetings

[JohnK]

Wowsie... nice box

John K

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Seasonal greetings

[JohnK]

ah... the picture on Nick's post.

jk
- Original Message - 
From: "Quixotic Nixotic" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Seasonal greetings




On 26 Dec 2013, at 13:19, JohnK wrote:


Wowsie... nice box

John K


Who are we talking about now? I'm lost.

John S

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Re: [neonixie-l] WW 2 IFF transponder.

[JohnK]

One of the early installations in Brit a/c had the on/off switch up behind 
the pilot's head. He had gloves too ! And, guess what? The destruct switch 
was just there too and not shrouded. Many IFF lost through accidental BOOM! 
Hard to believe the design [even though they were obviously rushed].


John K.

[PS... any Pics?]



- Original Message - 
From: 

To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 11:51 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] WW 2 IFF transponder.



I have a surplus WW 2 IFF transponder box that I picked up a couple of
years ago at one of the hamfests for under $10. In unused condition, very
nice with acorn tubes and a doorknob tube for the transmitter.  I think it
operates on 433MHz.  I had an another one of these I picked up when I was
in high school that had been partly gutted to make some type of ham
transceiver in the 1950s. It came with the CQ mag that had the mod article
in it.  One interesting item was/ the bottom cover has 6 or 8 electrical
fittings for thermite? demolition charges so if the plane was going down
you hit the button before bailing out.  The article said there was some
after war excitement because some of these units went into the surplus
channels with the demolition charges still in place!
   Tim L.
My unit is just a rather uninteresting black box, the controls were
somewhere else.

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Re: [neonixie-l] WW 2 IFF transponder. Nixie Test equipment.

[JohnK]

I am interested in pics of insides if possible  sometime...
direct to me if you don't want to clutter up Nixie  :-)

John K.
Adelaide, Australia


- Original Message - 
From: 

To: 
...clip


 It really disturbs me that I can't find the IFF unit. Maybe the
demolition charges took care of it!  I would have sworn I knew right
where it was...
   Tim L.


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Re: [neonixie-l] My latest clock

[JohnK]

Hey - Cute!
Glad you quoted the inspiration or I/we may have thought you watch too many 
zombie etc movies [or games].
Developments:-
The pcb in the mouth could be shaped as [or inserted in] a bone(s) along the 
lines of skull-and-crossbones.
Or, the pcb could be flexible and wrap-around the mouth/teeth.

good one Morris,
John K
Adelaide

[Happy New Year to you too.]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Morris Odell 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 11:05 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] My latest clock


  Hi all,


  I was in New Zealand recently and visited the Clapham National Clock Museum 
in a town called Whangarei. One of the items there caught my eye, it was a 
German skull clock from the 1920s as seen here. I thought a Nixie version would 
be just the thing for my office at the Institute where I am a senior physician. 
A couple of weeks of intensive work over the summer break and here it is:


  http://youtu.be/6rHZqU2x3EA 


  The skull is a plastic anatomical model which has been surgically modified to 
fit two dekatrons in the orbits. There's also a small speaker in the cranial 
cavity to sound the ticks and the Westminster chimes. The devices in the nasal 
cavity are a LED and a PIR sensor to switch on the display only in the presence 
of warm live humans. The red button on the front of the box is the alarm 
switch. The time display is made using Russian IN-17 tubes multiplexed in 3 
groups of two. In the box is a PCB with an AVR micro and appropriate power 
supply and interface electronics for the tubes and speaker. The dekatrons are 
purely ornamental and not part of the timebase as in previous clocks I have 
made. As this clock is going into an internal office there's no GPS receiver 
included so it is set manually and gets its timing from the mains frequency.


  Happy New Year to all,


  Morris













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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Classic nixie/neon books in reprint...

[JohnK]

Thanks for that; but the email is quite weird looking - I copy/pasted into word 
pad and is now quite readable.

John K
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nick 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 3:25 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Classic nixie/neon books in reprint...


  a.. 
  B: Alphanumeric Displays. Weston, George Frederick and Bittleston, R. 1982. 
(UK) Granada Technical Books Ltd. (US) McGraw-Hill. TK7882.I6W47, 621.3819'532, 
LoC# 82-22846, ISBN 0-07-069468-0.Chapters: 1) Presentation of Visual 
Information. 2) Display Requirements. 3) Addressing Techniques. 4) Display 
Technologies. 5) Scanned Displays. 6) Matrix Displays. 7) Drive Circuits. 8) 
Encoding and Data Organisation. 9) Applications.
  a.. B: Cold Cathode Glow Discharge Tubes. Weston, George Frederick. 1968. 
(UK) ILIFFE Books Ltd.The "BIBLE" of how nixie tubes work (plus other neon and 
gas-filled tubes). Chapters: 1) Townsend's Ionisation Coefficients. 2) 
Breakdown at Low Pressures. 3) The Glow Discharge. 4) Cathodic Sputtering. 5) 
The Temporal Growth and Decay of a Discharge. 6) Stabilisers and Reference 
Tubes. 7) Switching Diodes and Trigger Tubes. 8) Stepping Tubes. 9) Indicators 
and Display Tubes.
  a.. B: Cold Cathode Tubes. Dance, John Brian. 1967. (UK) ILIFFE Books Ltd., 
London.
  a.. B: Digital Counters and Computers. Bukstein, Ed. 1960. Rinehart & Co., 
Inc. LoC # 60:6499."A complete description of the theory, design, and 
application of digital counters and computers, including the interpretation and 
use of their output." Includes sections on number systems, logic, arithmetic 
circuits, binary and decade counters, readout indicators and special counter 
tubes, storage, I/O, computer control (programming), analog <-> digital 
converters, and applications.
  a.. B: Display Electronics. Tracton, Ken. 1977. Tab Books. Hardbound ISBN 
0-8306-7861-1. Paperbound ISBN 0-8306-6861-6. LoC # 77-79348.Chapters: 1) 
Photon Emission, Transmission and Detection. 2) The Light-Emitting Diode. 3) 
The LED in Use. 4) Arrays and Displays. 5) New Displays and Photosensitive 
Devices. 6) Electroluminescence. 7) The Injection Laser Diode. 8) 
Optoelectronic Projects. 9) Designing with LEDs.
  a.. B: Electronic Counting Circuits. Dance, John Brian. 1967. (UK) ILIFFE 
Books Ltd./American Elsevier. LoC # 67:13048Many and major references to nixies 
etc. throughout this excellent book. Chapters: 1) Introduction. 2) 
Electromagnetic Counters. 3) Single cathode gas filled counting tubes and their 
circuits. 4) Multi-electrode gas filled counting tubes and their circuits. 5) 
E1T decade counting circuits. 6) Beam switching tubes. 7) Valve scaling 
circuits. 8) Solid state scaling circuits. 9) Ratemeter circuits. 10) Readouts. 
11) Nuclear counting and instrumentation. 12) Further applications of counting 
circuits. Appendix) Valve equivalents and near equivalents.
  a.. B: Electronic Displays. Bylander, E. G. Opto-Electronics Department, 
Texas Instruments Inc. 1979, McGraw-Hill. TK7882.I6B94, LoC# 78-31849, 
Hardbound ISBN 0-07-009510-8.Chapters: 1) Introduction to Electronic Displays. 
2) Electronic Display Fundamentals. 3) Display Human Factors. 4) Gas Discharge 
Displays. 5) The Visible Light-Emitting-Diode Display. 6) Vacuum Fluorescent 
Display. 7) Liquid Crystal Displays. 8) The Incandescent Display & the 
Cathode-Ray-Tube Display.
  a.. B: Electronic Displays. Sherr, Sol. 1979. John Wiley & Sons, Inc. 
TK2882.I6S49, 621.3819'534, LoC# 78-10390, ISBN 0-471-02941-6Chapters: 1) 
Perceptual Factors. 2) Cathode-ray Devices. 3) Matrix and Alphanumeric 
Displays. 4) Cathode-ray-tube Systems and Equipment. 5) Alphanumeric and Matrix 
Systems and Equipment. 6) Applications. 7) Performance Evaluation.
  a.. B: Using and Understanding Miniature Neon Lamps. William G. Miller. 1969. 
Howard W. Sams & Co. Ltd. LoC # 69-16778"This book is offered to present the 
student, hobbyist, technician and engineer with a more complete account of the 
properties of neon lamps and to acquaint them with some of the many ways in 
which neon lamps can be utilised". Eight chapters over 127 pages including ones 
on indicators, regulators, oscillators and counters, computer circuits and so 
on.
  a.. B:" Cold Cathode tube circuit design" Neale D.M. published 1964 (GB) by 
Chaucer Press Ltd and 1965 (USA) D Van Nostrand IncChapter cover the evolution 
of the cold cathode tube, gas discharge, diodes, stabilisers and reference 
tubes, trigger tubes, arc discharge tubes, stepping tubes and register and 
display tubes. The book is perhaps unusual as it contains many design 
procedures and work examples in full.

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Re: [neonixie-l] 2 Hickok Ford Vehicle Simulator Analog computers

[JohnK]

Way back in '69 I used boot eyelets soldered into PCBs for the 4mm sockets. 
Didn't get a cheap solution to the plugs though. None of the bent metal, 
springy-wire ideas survived use. One idea that nearly worked was a smaller 
eyelet for the socket and very flexible meter lead cable for the leads/ 
plugs. Stripped the cable, bent the strands back over the insulation and 
held with heatshrink.


Later [ late '80s] I used wire-wrap pins and the rolls of "blue links" - 
can't remember the brand etc. The ones that I still have are on blank 
generic spools.  They are continuous wire with a socket to suit wire-wrap 
pins every 6 inches. Worked but didn't look nice; very cheap though.
A mate's contender at the time used an idea that I discarded - high density 
plug pins that had an insulation displacement connection slot at the end. he 
soldered the pin end into the pcb and pushed the 'telephone' wire into the 
knives to make the connections. Wasn't nice to use [for me anyway] and 
'pulling' a connection wasn't easy [ needed plier on the short side and pull 
both sides together. The temptation was to just rip the wires out.]


Found a rolled up piece of mylar recently - was the artwork for one of the 
patch panels - double-size done with Bishop Graphics tape. The high temps in 
that area had helped the tape fall off  :-((


John K
Australia


clip
. My biggest part of the design
challenge is getting the cost of the patching down - even cheap banana 
jacks become expensive when you need hundreds!


M


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents

[JohnK]

Depends on how and where you disconnected the trigger - may need to load down 
that pin.
Can you confirm that lifting the wiper DOES trigger the tube?   You could set 
up the right conditions on the other pins [including trigger] and then 
interrupt that circuit manually.
If it is a 'glitch' from the wiper, a capacitor/resistor network should improve 
things. 
Let's see what is forthcoming from all the others here.
John K
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: bob harper 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 6:34 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents


  hi all...well i have finally got this thing working...all trigger tubes, in 
the selection system the countdown tubes in the credit unit and the 3 digital 
display nixie tubes...but ONE remaining problem. the 1st tube on the left in 
the schematic a GR44 [i have tried another as well] fires when it should, but 
also when it should not, i disconnected the trigger and it still fires...the 
problem [i think] is that the K cathode is connected via a wiper contact on a 
rotating arm to the reset solenoid, which although cleaned and adjusted and 
tested with the meter, must be occasionally losing its contact [bear in mind 
the etched track is 50 years old] for a split second...clip.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents

[JohnK]

Maybe a capacitor across the wiper contact will solve it. The capacitor would 
normally be shorted by the wiper making correct contact. A momentary opening 
would be swamped by the uncharged capacitor. The capacitor may need a small 
series resistance to reduce the current from the capacitor when the wiper 
shorts it again. [ I hope - I can't picture the wiper etc that you mention. 
Want to hear from others too.]
John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: bob harper 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 2:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents


  Hi right I have broken the circuit to the solenoid from the cathode of the 
gr44 all other wiring reconnected as schematic it does indeed fire the gr44 and 
the solenoid if momentary disconnected so that does seem to be the source of 
the fault. Bob

  On 27 Mar 2014 09:33, "JohnK"  wrote:

Depends on how and where you disconnected the trigger - may need to load 
down that pin.
Can you confirm that lifting the wiper DOES trigger the tube?   You could 
set up the right conditions on the other pins [including trigger] and then 
interrupt that circuit manually.
If it is a 'glitch' from the wiper, a capacitor/resistor network should 
improve things. 
Let's see what is forthcoming from all the others here.
John K
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: bob harper 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 6:34 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents


  hi all...well i have finally got this thing working...all trigger tubes, 
in the selection system the countdown tubes in the credit unit and the 3 
digital display nixie tubes...but ONE remaining problem. the 1st tube on the 
left in the schematic a GR44 [i have tried another as well] fires when it 
should, but also when it should not, i disconnected the trigger and it still 
fires...the problem [i think] is that the K cathode is connected via a wiper 
contact on a rotating arm to the reset solenoid, which although cleaned and 
adjusted and tested with the meter, must be occasionally losing its contact 
[bear in mind the etched track is 50 years old] for a split 
second...clip.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents

[JohnK]

I still haven't looked closely to see what the wiper and track is and where it 
is on the schematic. That said, my capacitor suggestion wasn't worded that way.
I suggest that the capacitor is wired such that one end is to the wiper arm and 
the other end is to the track that the wiper arm is supposed to contact. The 
capacitor is shorted out if everything is normal.  Does your wording mean that 
too?
Any photos of the track and wiper?

John K
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: bob harper 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 8:27 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents


  hhih


  hi martin, yes i am watching the  GR43 on ebay!


  yes the 1st tube on the left i was referring to is marked ER32 [sorry thought 
schematic was posted up] it now has a GR44 installed in place [i have tried a 
couple] the fault has now been traced to the fact that the cathode connection 
to the solenoid is via a phenolic track on a pcb with a motor driven wiper arm 
carrying the connection this if momentarily loses continuity[the track is 50 
years old] is enough to fire the GR44 and the solenoid...a capacitor has been 
suggested across the solenoid, which i have yet to try...bob
  On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:37:07 AM UTC, Dekatron42 wrote:
Hi Bob,


There is a GR43 for sale on Ebay UK here: 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GR43-VALVE-SUB-MINIATURE-GAS-TRIGGER-TUBE-CERBERUS-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/251484552167?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item3a8da5bbe7
 , maybe that seller has more if you need.


I am sorry but I don't understand which of the trigger tubes you mean by 
the "1st tube on the left" - what number is written close to the trigger tube?


/Martin

On Thursday, 27 March 2014 09:04:33 UTC+1, bob harper wrote:
  hi all...well i have finally got this thing working...all trigger tubes, 
in the selection system the countdown tubes in the credit unit and the 3 
digital display nixie tubes...but ONE remaining problem. the 1st tube on the 
left in the schematic a GR44 [i have tried another as well] fires when it 
should, but also when it should not, i disconnected the trigger and it still 
fires...the problem [i think] is that the K cathode is connected via a wiper 
contact on a rotating arm to the reset solenoid, which although cleaned and 
adjusted and tested with the meter, must be occasionally losing its contact 
[bear in mind the etched track is 50 years old] for a split second...which i am 
assuming [here my knowledge gets hazy] that would allow the anode voltage to 
rise and trigger the tube? if this is the case, is there a solution to this? if 
not, my thought was to put in a relay which when the motor driving the rotating 
arm is running it opens the circuit from the cathode to the reset coil...any 
thoughts anyone? thanks, bob





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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents

[JohnK]

Thanks for the pic of the wiper. 
 I trust the Electrolube brand products - 
http://www.electrolube.com/

Others swear by a very expensive American cleaner/lubricator. That one has 
cheap constituants that are marketed cheaply by others but those brands don't 
have the 'magic' apparently. The chemicals involved were discussed here or Tube 
Collectors Association group a few times.

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: bobharper...@gmail.com 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 1:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: trigger tube equivilents


  hi thanks to you and Martin for replies yes meant to say cap across wiper not 
solenoid
  The gr44 does remain stable and will only fire if the trigger pulse is given 
as long as I don't revolve the wiper arm ,(I temporarily disconnected the drive 
motor) as soon as I reconnect it and it's revolving at full speed that's when 
the fault occurs thank bob


  ...clip..

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Re: [neonixie-l] light effecting GR43's?????

[JohnK]

Did you follow the recent discussions re lights and UV LEDs ?

John K.

  - Original Message - 
  From: bob harper 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 11:46 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] light effecting GR43's?


  hi all, GR43's effected by light???  this jukebox pcb is now finally working, 
had to alter some resister values away from spec, in order for it to 
workbut all is now working as it should...in the daylight! i wondered why 
some times its now behaving as it should, but other times its notit then 
dawned on me its only at night it plays up with the workshop lights on. i have 
now proved this...if i cover the pcb with a towel in daylight  the timer tube 
ignites when it should not, if i take the towel off, all is wellis there a 
solution to this?  bob

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Re: [neonixie-l] Neon size limitations?

[JohnK]

I was about to reply the same then I started to think about what I could 
actually quote.


This implies that a cathode gets activated after assemby and after/during 
pumping.

What is the chemical during construction?
What is the chemical during operation?
What is the chemical after later exposure to air?
If the chemical after later exposure to air is not the same as that during 
construction, can this later chemical be converted to what is required?


I thought I knew this   :-(
I have just reached down Materials and Techniques for Electron Tubes 
[revised edition of Materials Technology for Electron Tubes], Walter H Kohl, 
1960,Reinhold.


John K.


- Original Message - 
From: "Instrument Resources of America" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Neon size limitations?



Also!!!   It is my understanding from being a member of T.C.A. Tube
Collectors Association, another Yahoo group, that once the 'cathode' of
the gun is exposed to 'air' it is DESTROYED, and can NOT be used
again.Ira.



On 4/28/2014 4:18 PM, NeonJohn wrote:


On 04/28/2014 04:47 PM, Matthew Smith wrote:

Quoth Tidak Ada at 2014-04-29 06:13 ...
I once opened a 50 cm B/W picture tube to make a lamp of it. I 
carefully
packed the tube in thick blankets and then filed off the exhaust 
nipple.
About one minute of hissing and the pressure was equilibrated. No 
danger

at all!

Aha! I wanted to get the electron gun and base of a CRT, to re-mount
into a longer accelerator structure - was wondering how to break the
vacuum safely.

That works but it pretty much destroys the evacuation port for future
use.  I have the same intentions and have collected several B/W guns.
My technique is to use a dental turbine (a dremel will do) and bore an
about half mm hole through the neck downstream of where I plan on
cutting it.  That way I can re-open the tubulation in a controlled
manner and reuse it.

John




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Re: [neonixie-l] Neon size limitations?

[JohnK]

Ira and Matthew...
I had a browse of Kohl.  Chpt 15 is Cathode Materials and Structures, 
pages 519 - 573. There are seven pages of References.
If I knew which of the boggins of cathode materials are involved it would be 
easier. Too much info  :-(


Many cathodes start with a carbonate and cook it during evacuation to 
produce the oxide.

An active oxide would react with water and CO2 in the atmosphere (at least).

Other cathodes end up with the active metal available through complicated 
reactions.
That metal would definitely react with air - water, oxygen, CO2 and probably 
Nitrogen (at least).


No idea if any of the above is reversible. The porous nature of the surface 
is critical too - I can see humidity causing probs with structure.


I think I have an RCA Review [journal] that has specific details of a CRT 
gun cathode. I was looking for all I could find on interface 
resistance/impedance years ago and have a lot of cathode info packed away.


I am off to browse the info Ira pointed at...

John K.
Australia







- Original Message - 
From: "Matthew Smith" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Neon size limitations?



Quoth JohnK at 2014-04-29 11:37 ...
...

What is the chemical after later exposure to air?


And is oxygen the problem? (And does the problem apply to more recent 
CRTs.)


Just pondering whether it might be possible to broach the vacuum under a 
gas flood (like Ar/CO2) to mitigate damage.


--
Matthew Smith


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[neonixie-l] News Flash - Do you collect tubes or semiconductors?

[JohnK]

Many of your tubes probably should be in your semiconductor collection. 

And, if semiconductor is a dirty word, then in the bin !

Reference:-   Kohl, Materials and Techniques for Electron Tubes A completely 
revised edition of Materials Technology for Electron Tubes., 1960, Reinhold.

Page 551 describes Barium-Strontium-Calcium Oxide Cathodes, as "most widely 
used at the present time in receiving tubes, cathode ray tubes, picture tubes, 
and similar devices".

Wait for it "Oxide cathodes are n-type semiconductors".



sorry guys, I hope there aren't too many tears out there,

John K

Australia.


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Re: [neonixie-l] About this type edge lit display.

[JohnK]

Morris, maybe try having an idle current in all the lamps - just at the 
filament starts glowing point [not visibly glowing].

Re LEDs, I noticed some small LED Xmas lights that had a bezel with an inverted 
cone - apex pointing at the LED. They spread light around 'differently'.

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Morris Odell 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 6:55 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] About this type edge lit display.


  Hi all,

  A few years ago I built a 6 digit clock using those indicators. They are 
multiplexed and the clock looks terrific. Mine uses 12V flange based bulbs. The 
downside is that the bulbs don't last all that long when multiplexed at the 
theoretically correct voltage of 12 * sqrt(6) = 30 V (approx). Those little 
bulbs are not easy to find. The local professional suppliers (RS or Farnell) 
have them but you need to buy 100 at a time. I have had some success 
substituting LEDs as the quality and colour of high intensity warm white LEDs 
have improved. Once I run out of my last purchase of 100 bulbs which should be 
in about a year at the current rate, I'll install them. It won't look quite the 
same but them's the breaks. 

  Substituting LEDs is not straightforward. The issue with LEDs is that the 
light intensity is maximal in one direction while a small hot filament 
quasi-isotropically radiates in all directions. The bulb housings are like an 
integrating sphere with a slit where the edge of the perspex picks up the 
light. If the LED radiating direction does not coincide with the slit you lose 
a lot of it so even with very bright 5 mm LEDS the display looks dim compared 
to when a bulb is used. Recently I picked up a batch of warm white LEDs which 
have short bodies thus allowing more of the light to be bounced around inside 
the integrating housing and they are not too bad. I've got quite a collection 
now of unsuitable high intensity white LEDs!

  Morris




  On Monday, 19 May 2014 09:37:22 UTC+10, Dave Brown wrote:
Yes-those KGM displays are really quite interesting. 
 Has anyone come up with an LED replacement for the bulbs in them? 
DaveB, 
Christchurch, NZ 



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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Frosted Metal Case Instead of This Shiny One?

[JohnK]

Steel wool is good too - especially for rounded/curved surfaces. Needs extra 
care at the start and lift-off points; a bit of practice fixes that.

I am not keen on the finish produced by steel wool in a drill press giving lots 
of 'brushed' circular areas.

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nick 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 6:53 PM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Frosted Metal Case Instead of This Shiny One?


  Its not called "frosted" - the standard term is "brushed".


  Easy to do. Take off the current shiny case. Get some fine "wet and dry" 
paper (stuff that is waterproof), a block of cork or other wood about 3" x 2" 
with rounded edges and some light mineral lubricating oil (like "3-in-1").


  Wrap some W&D round the wooden block, wet it with the oil, and using long 
(full length of the piece), straight, strokes work in one direction on the 
piece, not lifting the block off until you've run over the end (else you'll 
break up the nice lines).


  You could convert this from smooth to brushed in maybe 30 minutes.


  HTH


  Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] What type/size of plug for power supply of clock?

[JohnK]

Yes, the 2.1 and 2.5 are hard to tell apart. At least yours has the bifurcated 
centre pin. There are so many brands and variations about you can have trouble 
with intermittent connection.

A couple of years back I found that the selection at the local parts stores 
[Jaycar, Altronics,Aztronics etc]  along with variations in my kit items could 
lead to problems. Some types rely on a loose fit of the outer of the plug to 
the outer of the socket. This is because they do not have a split centre and 
would otherwise rely on manufacturing tolerances and a 'slant/skew' of the 
central pin to work at all. They have a spring in the wall of the socket which 
then pushes the plug sideways to ensure contact at the centre pin.
I found that mixing and matching various brands and even eras of the same brand 
could lead to intermittent operation.
Also, one shop mixed up their stock. The design of the 2.1 and 2.5 meant that 
you could mix them - they fitted but didn't necessarily connect all the time. 
Beware of rigid, tight fit, non-bifurcated and non-springlined-central-female 
items - how DO they actually make reliable conact? They are pairs of concentric 
cylinders with no 'give'.

A similar thing happened with 3.5mm audio stereo connectors. Even in the same 
brand [seemingly] the loose plugs that worked fine with the in-line sockets 
were somewhat intermittent with the chassis-mounted sockets being sold AND VERY 
intermittent in the sockets fitted to audio gear.
The plugs on purchased audio cables were fine with the equipment [as you would 
hope] and varied in results with other sockets. 


John K.






- Original Message - 
  From: Dman777 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2014 4:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] What type/size of plug for power supply of clock?


  But  I can't tell what size that is...don't they come in different sizes?


  Thanks,
  -Darin




  On Sunday, July 13, 2014 1:30:51 AM UTC-5, Tidak Ada wrote:
The connection is clearly visible at the backside of your clock. See pic.

eric




From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Dman777
Sent: zondag 13 juli 2014 2:34
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] What type/size of plug for power supply of clock?


Hi, 


I bought my first Nixie clock! http://www.ebay.com/itm/271174922160


I was wondering, what type/size plug do I need for the power supply? I mean 
the end that plugs into the clock. This is for USA. 


Thanks,
-Darin

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Finally, an LM Ericsson RYG10 coaxial Trochotron up and running!

[JohnK]

This is interesting stuff.. thanks 

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dekatron42 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 12:09 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Finally, an LM Ericsson RYG10 coaxial Trochotron up 
and running!


  I just added a movie where I drive the RYG10 from a variable oscillator and 
run it up to 10KHz before my current driving stage reaches its limit. I also 
flip the magnet over while the RYG10 is powered up and it then changes 
direction as soon as the magnet is back in its correct position.


  /Martin

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Finished restoring a TIMEON 2000, motor driven Nixie clock from 1968!

[JohnK]

On the subject of lubricating plastics...
Nylon expands if it absorbs oils and greases [mineral vs vegetable ? i didn't 
check]. This means that certain nylon assemblies can bind.
The usual lubricant seen on plastic gears is a grease with a filler ... like 
the white grease used on curtain tracks [here, the easiest to source in small 
quantities]. I use a couple of different grades of a yellow looking grease - 
something with zinc oxide filler I think. It is automotive stuff. The filler 
slows the grease running/dripping off parts in hot weather.

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dekatron42 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 1:55 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Finished restoring a TIMEON 2000, motor driven 
Nixie clock from 1968!


  Hi Ali,


  Sorry for late reply but I tried to find out what lubricants could be used 
that would not dissolve the plastic parts, however I have not found any 
definite answer. In my clock I removed the extra lubricant that was smeared 
across the plastic and put in a small cup and then re-used it after cleaning. 
The motor bearings can be lubricated with for instance sewing machine oil.


  Cleaning the shafts and lubricating them again and also cleaning the contacts 
is usually what is needed.


  What differences can you spot in your clock, is the electrical wiring the 
same? Is yours a 24 hour clock or 12 hour like mine?


  Cheers,


  Martin

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Re: [neonixie-l] Nixie Clock Cool Project- a few questions

[JohnK]

"I want to place a fan underneath the clock to draw out this hot air, otherwise 
the life of the clock will not be as long as it will without the heat. "

Hot air 'rises' ie is pushed up by denser air. Pulling hot air down is not as 
effective as helping it go 'up'.

AND, wherever you are moving air, you need an IN and an OUT.
I was not sure about your description... if you do pull the air down as you 
say, can air get in to replace the air you are trying to move ie holes in 
the top?
If there are holes for the air to get 'in', then you better compare pulling and 
pushing  - use a thermometer.

If there are no holes for the air to get 'in' then you had better reconsider.
Blowing air / 'sucking air' around the case will help cool by conduction 
through the case - a litle.

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dman777 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 11:48 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Nixie Clock Cool Project- a few questions


  I have a 6 digit Nixie ZM5660 clock that I got from pvelectronics that is 
beautiful and super cool. Everything is perfect about it. However, since it is 
multiplexed there is one spot that has a very high concentration of heat. I 
want to place a fan underneath the clock to draw out this hot air, otherwise 
the life of the clock will not be as long as it will without the heat. 


  I will be taking dremel and drilling a large area underneath the case and 
placing a fan against the case surface(outside of the case) to draw out the hot 
air. I will then wire the 12v fan to the power supply connectors. When done, I 
will be placing the clock case on two blocks so there will be about 3 inches of 
area between the bottom of the clock(with the fan) and the shelf it sits on. I 
addition, I will drill some small holes for cool air intake on the sides and on 
top. 


  A few questions come to mind, please:


  1) The case is only 3/4 of inch deep. Should I go for a 2 inch fan or 1 inch 
fan? Typically, a 2 inch fan will draw more heat out. But since there will only 
be able 3/8" of space between the fan and circuit board, I am not sure which 
would be more effective in drawing heat out.


  2) The source of heat is in the center middle of the clock. If I place the 
middle of the fan directly underneath the heat concentration, will that heat 
just sit since it won't be above the blades but instead above the rotor? Should 
the fan be off center to the actual heat concentration?


  3) I would like a fan with a good ratio of not to loud but move enough heat 
out. Not sure which would be a good cfm.


  4) I don't understand why, the heat concentration is in the dead center of 
the clock, but the source of what I think is the source of the heat...the 7805 
voltage regulator... is of to the side of the source of the heat concentration 
area. 


  5) Do I need to worry about trace erosion from air flow and friction? On my 
old Xbox I had the fan running high in it and one of the traces eroded.


  Here are some of the fans(Would like to stick with ball bearing) I have been 
looking at. I am big fan of Sunon:
  1 inch:
  
http://www.jameco.com/1/1/2967-kde1203pfb2-8-ms-dc-brushless-tubeaxial-fan-bearing-type-ball.html

  http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_1708465_-1



  2 inch:
  
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?refineValue=Ball&refineType=1&langId=-1&position=1&productId=1950446&refine=1&catalogId=10001&history=6fqaemmj%7CsubCategoryName~DC%2BBrushless%2BFans%5Ecategory~3715%5EcategoryName~cat_37%5EprodPage~15%5Epage~SEARCH%252BNAV%401bnairch%7Ccategory~371530%5EcategoryName~cat_3715%5Eposition~1%5Erefine~1%5EsubCategoryName~DC%2BBrushless%2BFans%2B%252F%2B2.00%2522%2B%252850mm%2529%5EprodPage~15%5Epage~SEARCH%252BNAV%40dnogx9g3%7CrefineValue~SUNON%5ErefineType~1%5Eposition~1%5Esub_attr_name~Manufacturer%5Erefine~1%5EprodPage~15%5Epage~SEARCH%252BNAV&sub_attr_name=Bearing&storeId=10001&ddkey=http:StoreCatalogDrillDownView



  Thanks,
  -Darin

























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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock Cool Project- a few questions

[JohnK]

EEEk!!! Soldering is a skill... don't let him anywhere near it.
Inspecting solder joints is not easy, especially for novices.

I predict cooked board, delaminated tracks, overheated components

John K
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: Tidak Ada 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2014 5:48 PM
  Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock Cool Project- a few questions


  What I see are very poor solderings!. Best would be to clean the print with 
IPA, as arne suggests. Then take a magnifier glass and inspect the solderings 
carefullyand resolder bad ones. Then again clean with IPA.

  eric



--
  From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Dman777
  Sent: zaterdag 11 oktober 2014 3:38
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock Cool Project- a few questions


  I was studying the area where the heat is trying to figure out where the heat 
is coming from, since there are no real components near the heat concentration. 
 


  Using my camera and zooming in, I see some strange markings on PCB board 
surface and some brown/burn spots also. Could this have anything to do with the 
heat concentration? What are these from? I attached a couple of pictures.


  Thanks,
  -Darin






  ...clip

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock Cool Project- a few questions

[JohnK]

"I don't know why the FET was replaced. Either it was bad "out-of-box", or the 
assembler ..."

Or it was just a late-arriving component and no problem at all.

AND, way back at the beginning..."otherwise the life of the clock will not be 
as long as it will without the heat."

Whilst in general terms less heat = greater life, if it is running within 
design specs the tubes will go first. [NOTE - as many have said so far. 
hard facts ie numbers are needed]

John K

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock Cool Project- a few questions

[JohnK]

trichloroethylene more likely... sweet green death !!

I fought for many years here to have cigarettes, this and a bunch of other 
chemicals banned in government workplaces - I wasn't popular.


John K
Australia



- Original Message - 
From: "Instrument Resources of America" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2014 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock Cool Project- a few questions



tric.= trichlorethane ??   Ira



On 10/11/2014 5:00 PM, David Forbes wrote:

On 10/11/14 4:48 PM, Charles MacDonald wrote:

On 14-10-11 04:44 PM, Instrument Resources of America wrote:

I usually use a tooth brush and isopropyl alcohol. Then air dry, or use
compressed air if the circuitry is not static sensitive. Ira.


When I worked repairing computers, we used to use Tric.  Too bad that is
now banded as a carcinogen and a greenhouse gas, it took the flux off
likkity split.





Yeah, it's too bad. I had high school classmates who were killed by
it, from living near the missile factory in Tucson and getting cancer.

I'm very grateful for water-soluble flux these days. It's much safer.



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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock Cool Project- a few questions

[JohnK]

Oh c'mon! You really left pin 17 U72 looking like THAT!

:-)
John K
[PS  :-))  :-))   ]
  - Original Message - 
  From: Terry Kennedy 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2014 5:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock Cool Project- a few questions
  ...clip...All rework leaves its mark. As long as it works well (both right 
away and after extended use), it's good. Extra points for not causing needless 
damage (lifting traces and then repairing), but normally this is all inside the 
case and out of sight. Here's my most recent work, removing and replacing 2 
66-pin TSOPs on a Cisco switch. More info here for interested parties (and 
larger versions of the pictures).




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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Awesome new Nixie Tube Z568M Replica on Ebay

[JohnK]

"I will prepare a short video and show You what all is behind"

Looking forward to that.   And, the TCA guys should be interested too.

John K

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Re: [neonixie-l] Small nixie tube + lens != large nixie tube

[JohnK]

What about the lens that is half a cylinder [like in old calculator displays] ?
I have a half inch high one.. must go look at the distortion [and maybe should 
have done it before posting - but I have to find it first!]

john K
  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 6:17 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Small nixie tube + lens != large nixie tube


  Awhile back I mentioned I would experiment with a smaller nixie tube and a 
plano-convex lens to see if it's feasible to 'synthesize' a larger nixie 
display.
  I obtained two 50mm (about 2") glass lenses from Ebay for a few dollars, and 
tested them with 5092 nixie tubes (15mm, or 0.6")



  Observations
  1. Looking straight into the lens, digits were clearly readable, much larger 
and good brightness. It actually worked. In fact, it worked so well that I got 
digits almost 2" tall from a 5092 nixie.


  Drawbacks:
  1. The viewing angle is significantly reduced. Basically, you have to observe 
the tube directly thru the axis of the lens
  2. Only a few digits will be in-focus. This is because the various 
digit-cathodes in the nixe-tube are stacked, and therefore only a few will be 
close to the focal point of the lens
  3. You have to create some sort of mounting for the lens. Unless the tubes 
are already sufficiently spaced apart, you wont have room for multiple lenses.


  Unfortunately, you cant get something for nothing: A $3 lens + $6 nixie tube 
is not the same as a $400 nixie tube (That's the most recent selling-price I 
saw for a single 7094 on Ebay)


  Sorry I dont have time to make a lens-holder and take pictures; too busy with 
my wristwatch.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: KLOK K7 broken from corrosive rot

[JohnK]

There are no-clean fluxes that definitely cause no probs in twenty-odd years 
that I have observed them. And water wash ones too. BUT they need very 
'fresh' components for them to be OK in manufacturing. [Speaking from 
experience in an electronics factory].


John k.





- Original Message - 
From: "David Forbes" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2014 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: KLOK K7 broken from corrosive rot



There are two types of solder flux. The old rosin-core flux is inert.

The newer organic flux is corrosive and would result in the sort of damage 
described in this clock. It needs to be washed off in hot water soon after 
use.





On 12/18/14 9:39 PM, Nicholas Stock wrote:

The solder flux won't do anything untoward in my experience. I still
have amplifiers I put together over 25 years ago without cleaning the
flux off them and they work fine...if it bothers you so much, take the
tubes out and the PCB from the case and get an old toothbrush, some
isopropyl alcohol and gently scrub the stuff away and wash with fresh
isopropyl alcohol afterwards. It'll take a few go's to get it nice and
clean.



--
David Forbes, Tucson AZ

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: KLOK K7 broken from corrosive rot

[JohnK]

Iso-propyl is/was called rubbing alcohol [and used as such in the sports 
industry].


John K


- Original Message - 
From: "Nick" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2014 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: KLOK K7 broken from corrosive rot


if using Isopropyl alcohol, aka IPA, make sure you do it in a well 
ventilated area.


IPA will give you a blinding/pounding headache and is not nice stuff. ..

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dalibor's Nixie tube: R|Z568M

[JohnK]

Maybe I am missing something when it comes to the way this works, but, when it 
is not a vacuum as is required for a valve/tube then what about the idea of 
pump a bit, add some of the eventual gas, pump again etc. The original 
impurities would distribute 'evenly' through the added gas and when it was 
pumped out a percentage of that older pollutant would be removed again. Thus it 
seems to me that a quite 'feeble' pump can do the job when the eventual fill is 
a gas [even if at a lowish pressure].

John K
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nick 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 2:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Dalibor's Nixie tube: R|Z568M


  None of this seems really necessary - the research I've been doing implies 
that 1 micron (10-3 Torr) is enough for a pump-down and that should be achieved 
in just a few minutes.



  I can see the need, just maybe, for a TM pump if working on an industrial 
scale (or if someone gives you one!), but assuming at best I need 10-4 to 10-5 
Torr, I'll stick with a fairly normal molecular diffusion pump and suitable 
multi-stage backing.


  Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: For Steampunk Nixie Clock Fans..

[JohnK]

Hey Paul, love that thing !

It is sooo nice I won't ask you what you "killed" to get the gyro  :-((

[I have an interest in servo-systems, guidance, nav-aids etc ]
John K
Australia

  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Parry 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 1:54 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: For Steampunk Nixie Clock Fans..


  Hi Nick,


  Many thanks, I'm hoping to get a bit of good press from it :)


  The Beam engine is actually driven by a small electric motor ( out of an old 
turntable as it has all the speed controller electronics built in to the rear 
of the motor ) it is hidden away inside a brass mainspring housing, the drive 
wheel engages with the flywheel of the Beam engine. It is made to look like the 
engine is turning a small dynamo that powers the clock.


  The clock is located in a public area, so for Health and safety reasons I 
could not have any sources of ignition, or risk it setting off any fire alarms. 
The Steam is just mist, you can get these piezo based water mister things that 
produce a fog out of water, I just re engineered one to suit the clock, the 
brass cylinder underneath contains a water reservoir.


  In answer to Terry's question, the Humidity in Singapore where the clock is 
located is usually 80% plus so I don't think it will add much. It is more a 
novelty feature and doesn't run all the time, just on a 30 second timer when 
you press a button on the side.


  Paul


  On Wednesday, 18 February 2015 11:56:08 UTC, Nick wrote:
That's lovely Paul - very well done !



Is the beam engine driven by compressed air or a meths 
burner/similar/whatever...


Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: For Steampunk Nixie Clock Fans..

[JohnK]

OT still, but... there are web hits for Vampire with IFF and Radar.  [Country 
vs year vs model etc though.]
BTW, the Rebecca is part of an interrogator system; Rebecca finds the Eureka. 
The system can be employed as a DME. 
I am 'restoring' a Rebecca IV. The IV was the British test bed for the 
miniature 7-pin valves (and other miniaturisations).

John K
Australia

  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Parry 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 6:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: For Steampunk Nixie Clock Fans..


XD515 was in very poor condition, it used to live at Newark Air museum 
under the wing of a Vulcan - outdoors and with a massive hole in the side of 
the cockpit the size of a dustbin lid. Newark scrapped the plane off, and my 
friend Erik purchased it for scrap value with a view of restoring it as a 
retirement project as he worked on them in the RAF many years ago. Over 2 years 
Erik dismantled the plane on site and brought it home bit by bit in his car and 
on a trailer, and started work on it. The fuselage is wooden, the same as a 
Mosquito, so he completely replace the side with the hole in as it would have 
originally been done by DeHavilland. I joined him on the project a few years 
later and I worked on the electrical systems, with a view to getting it to 
power up. I got the rotary inverters going, and a lot of the instrumentation 
functional. Sadly though Erik developed emphaceama and passed away, and he left 
me the plane as an on-going concern. I was not in the position to take the 
plane from Erik's house, or had the room myself to house it all, I already had 
the Goblin Engine in my garage along with the rear fuselage, no room for wings 
and cockpit so it ended up as a collection of parts at RAF Cosford, where I 
hope they will put it back together as it is all there and put it on display. 
At least it is in the right place, and they have the facilities and room to put 
it back together.


  I don't think the Vampire had any IFF system, there was a very early radar 
fitted (Rebecca) that used little antennas on the wings and tails but that is 
advanced as it got, little G4F compass system and that was about it. The engine 
starting mechanism / timer was clockwork which made me smile.


  Never heard of the TabbyF system, makes interesting reading though!


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: For Steampunk Nixie Clock Fans..

[JohnK]

Yes, but thanks for reminding me; it has been quite a while since I refreshed 
my memory. And there is new to me content in those links ! Thanks.
I have been green with envy for all the Vulcun stuff [as a kid I had a 
walk-through of a Vulcan at an airshow here and was delighted to see one in 
flight during a visit to the UK in 1980.]

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nick 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 1:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: For Steampunk Nixie Clock Fans..


  On Wednesday, 25 February 2015 14:25:33 UTC, johnk wrote:
 
OT still, but... there are web hits for Vampire with IFF and Radar.  
[Country vs year vs model etc though.]
BTW, the Rebecca is part of an interrogator system; Rebecca finds the 
Eureka. The system can be employed as a DME. 
I am 'restoring' a Rebecca IV. The IV was the British test bed for the 
miniature 7-pin valves (and other miniaturisations)


  Are you familiar with the wonderful work of Tatjana J. van Vark ? See 
http://www.tatjavanvark.nl/tvve/dduck0.html - Not only did she rebuild a 
complete H2S, replacing all the missing bits she needed herself, she also 
designed and built a miniature version from scratch - 
http://www.tatjavanvark.nl/tvv4/radarind.html .


  Her whole site is a thing of beauty/wonderment ! http://www.tatjavanvark.nl/


  Nick
  (*) The H2S runs in her house! http://www.tatjavanvark.nl/tvve/dduck7.html 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Plasma Globe Substitute

[JohnK]

GREEN for a voltage wire?

What is the first tube's number?

John K
[PS  nice toy.]
  - Original Message - 
  From: 'threeneurons' via neonixie-l 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 5:07 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Plasma Globe Substitute


  Last week, I went to the TRW Swapmeet. I met a pair of our neon buddies, 
Westdave, and Gary, at one of vendor booths. The vendor had a bunch of element 
discharge tubes. Not the regular noble gas tubes, like neon or helium, but of 
mostly vaporized metal, gold, mercury ... He wanted $25 a piece for them. Dave 
and Gary picked up a couple each. Me, being a cheap SOB, and seeing they 
weren't dekatrons, passed. Later at Gary's house, we wanted to light them up. 
Gary use to have a plasma globe. If you stick a nixie tube near it, the tube 
would glow. But it had been broken, and he thrown it out. No big deal, he has a 
tesla coil in the garage. Again, no go, since it was dismantled, and he was in 
the middle rebuilding it. No glow joy, that day.


  Well I threw together this little toy, to throw out a few KV of AC, to make a 
few ions:


  The circuit, is pretty simple. It just my nixie supply circuit, adjusted to 
output 300VDC But instead of using a simple coil, I used a transformer. The 
primary side, makes a 300Vpp pulse. The transformer has a ~20:1 turns ratio. 16 
turns on the primary, and a tad over 300 on the secondary. The key was isolate 
not only the primary from secondary,but successive layers of the secondary. 
They maybe more kapton tape on it than wire !

  The tubes are not plugged into a socket, but on a conductive platform (wire 
mesh), that's hooked up to HV. That green wire hanging out, is also the HV. 
Touch a gas filled tube to it, and it will lite up ! It's also portable. I 
powered it from a 12VDC source, I often drag along with me.







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Re: [neonixie-l] Plasma Globe Substitute

[JohnK]

I was querying the choice of colour for a wire that has voltage. In this 
part of the world Green is associated with earth/ground. [Although 
Green/Yellow has overtaken it.]


John K
Australia

- Original Message - 
From: "'threeneurons' via neonixie-l" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Plasma Globe Substitute


That wire has the HV on it, too. The other side of the secondary is tied 
low thru an NE-2.


That's a BH rectifier tube in the 1st photo.

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Re: [neonixie-l] The answer is a lemon

[JohnK]

There is a lovely pair of volumes of Television Today [1930s, after acorn 
valves] , Newnes, (probably weekly and then bound). 
I absorbed Dad's copies when I was a kid and started a disk Tx and Rx at 
school. Still have the pieces - waiting for the 'round tuit' I need to complete 
it.

John K
Australia
[PS. Used bicycle rear sprockets ground down for the synch mechanism]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Quixotic Nixotic 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 10:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] The answer is a lemon


  Looks so easy,






  John S

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: The answer is a lemon

[JohnK]

I'd scan bits of the books and post, but there is probably more on the web 
anyway. The 30 vert lines pic was 'awful'. And yes, most had lenses.


If anyone wants me to scan that pic, shout.

John k
Australia

[PS Mum let my sister's girlfriend cut a piece of carboard from the rear 
cover for some project they were doing! I recently bought a replacement 
volume.]




- Original Message - 
From: "chuck richards" 

To: ; 
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 12:22 AM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: The answer is a lemon



I remember my dad telling me about those original old
TV sets from the mid 1920s.  He described the rotating disks
and he did see a display version of it somewhere in Chicago
when he was a young boy.  When he saw it, he said it had
a picture of Felix the cat which was on a rotating turntable
slowly turning around.  He said you had to put your head up to
a hood and peer down at a fairly small image.  Maybe there was a
magnifying lense down there too.

Chuck








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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: OT: Do any "long-life" magic eye tubes exist ?

[JohnK]

How about the very miniature display tubes in [old] vid cam eyepieces then?

John K
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 5:12 AM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: OT: Do any "long-life" magic eye tubes exist ?


>You MAY be able to obtain a one inch CRT and drive the deflection plates 
with appropriate signals and 'simulate' and eye tube.  Ira.



  Interesting idea, but it would probably make the clock-case too deep to 
accommodate the CRT.
  Even the 6E5 I was hoping to use was pushing the limit.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Need help with a tubehobby clock overheating

[JohnK]

Careful with epoxying a heatsink on. A heatconducting paste [dangerous chemical 
usually] OR a very thin layer of heatsink compound and a clip holding the 
heatsink is probably better. How much does the epoxy impede the heat flow?  
[and note I said very thin re the compound?Just enough to fill the tiny voids 
that exist. The usual compounds are heat insulators, but are still better than 
air filling the voids.]  
PS. I know you said the overheating is recent, but I use the opportunity to 
mention this topic.

John k.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Kiran Otter 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 2:44 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Need help with a tubehobby clock overheating


  The voltage from the wallwart (12V, 1A) is 11.8V under load.  The high 
voltage to the tubes is 172.8V.  It's very difficult to get it right at 170V 
when adjusting R26.

  Something else I wanted to mention; the separator tubes (separating hours 
from minutes, minutes from seconds,) one of them is mostly black, and neither 
of them light properly.  I'm wondering if they're the culprit.  I'm going to 
remove them and see if it makes any difference.

  Also, I have the heatsink epoxied to both U1 and M1; maybe it's M1 that's 
getting hot, not U1?  I'll use a infrared temp gun and see if I can distinguish 
which is getting so hot.

  Thank you for the replies!

  Kiran
   

  On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 11:45:02 AM UTC-4, blkadder wrote:
I was just having a look at the manual for the clock, and was thinking that 
the adjustable trimpot at R26 should also be checked.  Being it is adjustable, 
could it be that it may have failed somehow?  Just a thought.

Ron

On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 7:55:48 AM UTC-4, Kiran Otter wrote:
  Hi folks, glad to find this group!

  I've had a Tubehobby clock for several years, the NCV2.1 with the IN-18 
tubes.  In the past Jonas has helped, and I even shipped him the main board for 
him to repair, but he hasn't responded to my last request for help, so I 
thought I would ask here.

  Recently, I started to notice that other digits in the tubes were 
partially lighting up, and eventually the fuse blew.  My assumption was that 
the K155ID1 drivers had started to go, so I ordered six of them off eBay, and 
tried replacing them.. which isn't hard, everything is socketed.   Well it 
didn't help, so I contacted Jonas.  Jonas suggested replacing C6, which I did 
and it appeared to fix the problem.

  Maybe a month later, I started to notice the left most digit was faintly 
showing numbers, and seemed to be influenced by the next to right digit.  So I 
thought perhaps the drivers I got from eBay weren't good, so I swapped them 
around, trying to see if it made any difference.  Unfortunately, I trashed the 
two original driver chips that came with the kit.  So far swapping the drivers 
around among the six I have, hasn't changed anything.. or if it has, the digits 
lighting that shouldn't be have moved from tube to tube.

  Well I let the clock run like this for a week or so, and one day I just 
happened to feel around the voltage regulator U1 (L7805CV).. and it's blazing 
hot. I put a temp probe on it and it's running at 140F in open air, and when I 
built the clock, I epoxied a heatsink to it.  It never ever used to get this 
hot.  In fact the clock has run for years in a closed enclosure with very 
little ventilation.  It just never produced much heat at all.  I swapped both 
driver chips for two others, and it still gets just as hot.

  When the clock shuts off the display at night, the temp drops to just 
above room temperature.

  So my guess is has to be one of two things I replaced; C6, or the driver 
chips.  I think it's the drivers, and I'd like to get a pair from somewhere 
reputable so I can at least rule them out as the problem.  I've seen some that 
appear to be ceramic, instead of plastic cased.. claimed to be 'milspec' but I 
donno if that's BS or what.

  Any help is appreciated!

  Kiran






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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Need help with a tubehobby clock overheating

[JohnK]

I didn't look closely when I mentioned about how to properly use heatsink 
compound.
Was it hot before you added the heatsink?
Was it hotter after?

You pondered why the heatsink might make it hotter:-

Someone mentioned maybe glue conducting. 

I mentioned the glue might insulate the heat.
Overlapping a couple of components, maybe one didn't like being heated by the 
other?

And, what if the added heatsink is acting as an UNWANTED capacitor between 
various pieces of the circuit?  You didn't join the heatsink to earth/gnd or a 
rail, it was floating?   Gnd-ing pretty well removes the coupling effect. [And 
the rail is effectively grounded.]

John K/


  - Original Message - 
  From: Kiran Otter 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 8:53 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Need help with a tubehobby clock overheating


  Niek,

  Yes, it's showing the seconds in the hour digit, and in the minutes digit.. 
though not as strongly.  If I force it to display the date or number of hours 
on the tubes, I can see whatever is in the most-right tube, faintly in the next 
to left tube.  And I swear I can see the 6 in the seconds tube coming on for 
like 4-5 seconds.  Again, it's all really faint, so I assume it's not really a 
problem.

  Before I swapped the driver chips around, I was getting faint digits in the 
left most tube.  So it does seem to be driver related.  But I think it's OK for 
now.

  Is there a known good source for the driver chips?  Someone on ebay?

  Kiran


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: 7 digit nixie preliminary design

[JohnK]

A similar 'nasty' can happen to experimenters - if multiple voltages are 
required on a board, don't 'common up' at the bench supplies with only  one 
common taken to the board. Lifting that common causes the 'total' voltage to 
distribute according to the various resistances - eg your 3V ICs could get most 
of the 12V IC's voltage.
[If you are new to electronics, try some calculations. OR just take my word for 
it.]

Which is also why I don't like multi-phase mains distribution in houses. Had to 
provide 'consultation' to a local hotel. The electrician put the damage down to 
a 'mains spike'. He had lifted the Neutral at the main switchboard as part of 
his RCD and compliance testing [he had added a new run]. This meant that the 
large airconditioner [high current] and the clocks/radios/tv/microwaves were in 
series across 415V line-to-line. 

John K
Australia
  - Original Message - 
  From: gregebert 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 5:43 AM
  Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: 7 digit nixie preliminary design


  Make sure you pay close attention to the datasheet regarding 
power-sequencing. Many CMOS devices with multiple power supplies require them 
to be brought up (and down) in a specific order, otherwise internal damage will 
result.


  You wouldn't believe all the effort we go to at my day-job not only to ensure 
correct power-sequencing, but also to identify all of the possible failure 
modes if sequencing is wrong.

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[neonixie-l] Re: G10/240E (STC) Nomotron added

[johnk]

I have 24 pages of STC data for the /241 including driver circuits and
relay driving applications.
is that data wanted here? [I thought I put it at Yahoo but can't
access it to check.]

John K.

On 14 Sep, 17:48, Nick  wrote:
> I've uploaded the datasheet for the G10/241 (very very similar - same
> pretty much except type of encapsulation).
> See G10241.pdf
>
> I have samples (NIB) of G10/240 & G10/241 but have never lit them...
>
> Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: recommendation for anode resistor for 2x2 multiplexed IN-14s @166-170v?

[JohnK]

Think of the tubes acting a bit like a zener diode. [Or old-time valve 
regulators   eg VR105  ]
Same principle as fluorescent light tubes too for that matter. [And the 
reason for the Ballast]


John K.


- Original Message - 
From: "will" 


" Does the resistance of the tube
decrease significantly when you energize it or something?"


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: IR remote control or Motion Sensor to switch the HV to the display of Jeff Thomas WWVB Clock

[JohnK]

Well, what about just switching it on/off?  Or use an off-the-shelf mains 
timer (- electronic or mechanical) ?
Or, there is home-automation equipment [X10 etc] that will allow you to 
operate a mains-switch from various remotes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_(industry_standard)

And, various electronics magazines publish articles re control and there are 
some kits available.


If you are into recycling, there are many CRT TV sets scrapped and they are 
a source of IR Tx/Rx  ... just add your own [mains safe] relay.

Other ideas.Garage door-opener controllers as kits etc.,

John K.
[PS... use of RCDs etc assumed, especially if you mains tinker.]


- Original Message - 
From: "tunes" 


.clip
I need to be able to switch off the 9v wall adapter supply to the step
up transformer.  See schematic here:
...clip... 


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Re: [neonixie-l] Help from a Japanese fellow?

[JohnK]

Dieter, try the tubecollectorsassociation (TCA) Yahoo Group too.

John K

- Original Message - 
From: "Dieter Waechter" 

do we have Japanese people here in the group?
I need some help for forwarding some Nixie tubes to me.
I will pay for the work of course.
Thanks
Dieter


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: recommendation for anode resistor for 2x2 multiplexed IN-14s @166-170v?

[JohnK]

Evolution-in-Action

John K.

- Original Message - 
From: "will" 



...clip...
The surge protector always says "wiring fault",
but everything seems to work OK.

...clip

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Ghosting on IN-14s even with long blanking period.

[JohnK]

Will, I can not be sure what is actually happening because I am not there 
looking over your shoulder !
But, how about a slightly different approach - on tube 1 swap 7 and [say] 
3,  AND on tube 2 swap 7 and [say] 9.
Just at the tubes; all other driver circuits/wires to be for the 'normal' 
clock.


How do you cycle through the displayed digits for these checks?

John K


- Original Message - 
From: "will" 



OK, I tried moving the seven around on the board with no success, but
.clip 


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Ghosting on IN-14s even with long blanking period.

[JohnK]

Thanks. Was curious about the non-clock method and whether there is 
something inherent in the process causing the prob.


John K


- Original Message - 
From: "will" 

Also, forgot, my cycle program is very simple, the first tube cycles
really fast, every time the first tube goes from one to zero the next
tube increases by one. Once the second tube is all the way up to zero
the dots blink on all three tubes, then the third tube increases by
one. Is that the answer you're looking for? I can't tell if you mean
in a hardware respect or in a literal respect, lol.

clip


How do you cycle through the displayed digits for these checks?

John K



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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie tube amperemeter

[JohnK]

or a 555.  AND I hope he screams his guts out !!  :-))

jk
- Original Message - 
From: "threeneurons" 

Here's a simple charge pump:

http://snipurl.com/23qbkk

only 4 parts. 2 10uf caps, and 2 1N4148 diodes. Output roughly -4V.


Oh, the input is a 5V squarewave, over 5KHz. It can be generated from
a spare uC output port bit.


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Re: [neonixie-l] Sockets (was Modern Nixie tube drivers)

[JohnK]

Ball Grid Arrays don't have to be useless for home . If time isn't an issue 
and money is or it is just some fun,,, [or it is only avail BGA etc] just 
flip the pack and glue it down. Treat it like COB [chip-on-board] and wire 
each dot with solder-thru enammeled copper wire. Mount on vector or a 
carrier etc. Slime it with neutral-cure if you are likely to trash the 
connections.


John K
Australia

- Original Message - 
From: "Rick" 


..clip.

And all modern FPGAs and a lot of the more advanced processors are in
BGA format which is hopeless for home manufacture :-(

 - Rick



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Re: [neonixie-l] Sockets (was Modern Nixie tube drivers)

[JohnK]

Yes.
You know that Australian EEVBlog?
http://www.eevblog.com/

See that version with BIG wires.
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://koti.mbnet.fi/jahonen/Electronics/Stuff/BGA_rework.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php%3Ftopic%3D461.0&usg=__62GBEN7tbEoN45gP05ii1P950lo=&h=761&w=857&sz=82&hl=en&start=18&zoom=1&tbnid=6w9ZgZueV1N_QM:&tbnh=122&tbnw=131&ei=b-VkTcL-GcPCcdv_vd4F&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsoldering%2Bbga%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1W1SUNC_en%26biw%3D1251%26bih%3D551%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C504&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=288&vpy=244&dur=9344&hovh=212&hovw=238&tx=110&ty=145&oei=MONkTYH0EZrEcLaHnJIF&page=2&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:18&biw=1251&bih=551


My method is better tho.

jk

- Original Message - 
From: "Rick" 

clip.
Treat it like COB [chip-on-board] and wire each dot with
solder-thru enammeled copper wire. Mount on vector or a carrier etc. 
Slime it

with neutral-cure if you are likely to trash the connections.

John K
Australia

- Original Message - From: "Rick" 

..clip.

And all modern FPGAs and a lot of the more advanced processors are in
BGA format which is hopeless for home manufacture :-(

 - Rick





Sounds interesting - is there a pic of this?

Thanks,

 - Rick


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Re: [neonixie-l] Sockets (was Modern Nixie tube drivers)

[JohnK]

Oops ! Sry bout that- here is the link.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/jahonen/Electronics/Stuff/BGA_rework.jpg

jk

- Original Message - 
From: "JohnK" 

clip
See that version with BIG wires.
...clip

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Re: [neonixie-l] Large nixie display, current discrepancies

[JohnK]

How about you check the tolerance % of the resistors.  Did you use 10%, 5% 
etc  ?
And, how about you measure the voltage drop across each of the anode 
resistors in turn and with different digits ON.


BTWQ, that current increase is not large BUT, it may not be spread 
evenly across the tubes; what if it is one tube drawing all the extra?


Just some ideas for going on with until you get more replies...
regards,
john K.




- Original Message - 
From: "Jarek" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:06 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Large nixie display, current discrepancies


...clip

Would a +0.16mA increase over optimal current harm the tubes? I'm a
little paranoid due to the scope and expense of this project, and I
would like the tubes to last as long as possible. Each tube is driven
directly, no multiplexing, with a standard Russian 74141 clone chip
per tube.



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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Large nixie display, current discrepancies

[JohnK]

But, the 1% resistors make the current measurement easier.

John K.

- Original Message - 


On 3/9/11 8:47 AM, Jarek wrote:

I purposely bought 1% .5W resistors, and did all the testing with the
'8' digit. >>


There's precision, and then there's precision. Nixie tubes are in the 5% 
category, not the 1% category.


...clip..> 
The upshot is that you can't optimize it to 1%, no matter how hard you 
try. "Close enough" will have to do.





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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie tube amperemeter

[JohnK]

I have trouble picturing the circuit arrangement; BUT 11V across 5 ohms is 
>2 Amps which is >20 Watts !! Does the resistor get hot? And where do you 
get >2 Amps?


Your resistor is >>5 ohms?

John K.

- Original Message - 
From: "Jens Boos" 



clip.>

This confused me. The shunt resistor is 5 ohms, so there should not be
any significant voltage drop across the shunt resistor at 2, 3, 4 mA.
But the strange part is: The voltage drop is 11V and something, and
there is no current flowing with the switch closed.

Does someone understand what has happened, or is fiurther information
required?

...clip 


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Re: [neonixie-l] PCB socket footprint for NL-5440A?

[JohnK]

Rather than calipers, how about scanning it and importing to your 
CAD/Drawing program. Then 'draw' over it on a different layer.
And, if you need measurements, do them on enlarged diagram with CAD or 
[shudder] ruler on flat screen?


John K.

- Original Message - 
From: "koolatron" 

clip.

I've tried several times to generate a sane EAGLE footprint that fits
this socket, and have met with only failure.  The socket has 16 pins,
which would at first blush correspond to a 17-pin ring of evenly-
spaced contacts, with one missing.  That, however, is not not the case
-- each 90-degree quadrant has four contacts, and they appear to be
spaced unevenly around the circle.

Before I go out and buy a set of calipers to measure this socket, has
anyone managed to generate a working PCB footprint for it?

Sean


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Re: [neonixie-l] Mullard dekatrons

[JohnK]

I will have to dig deep to find them but I do have lurkers.
What do you want to know?

John Kaesehagen
Australia

- Original Message - 
From: "Jon" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:58 AM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Mullard dekatrons



Oh dear, it's happening again...

I find myself once again enquiring into the minute details of the
construction and labelling of some dekatrons in an attempt to piece
together the historical story. Last time it was the ETL dekatrons, now
it's the tubes from the Philips family (Mullard, Valvo, Adzam, Amperex
etc).

If anyone has examples of Z302C, Z303C, Z502S, Z504S, Z505S, ZM1060 or
ZM1070 and would be happy to answer a few questions about the tubes,
please contact me off list.

Thanks,

Jon.


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: NZ designed clock

[JohnK]

Someone on this group [i thought] or an electronics forum I used to watch 
pointed to these circuit boards at least a year ago IIRC.

The 'pointer' said it was work of his 'friend'... a web-friend i think.

The designer's name was given as Asian I thought.

Any one else remember this or am I totally having a 'senior-moment' ? [I am 
old enough !]


John K
Australia


- Original Message - 
From: "Terry S" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 9:12 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: NZ designed clock


So which one is the rip-off, the NZ clock or the Chinese clock?

On Jun 8, 5:35 am, Steve Rooke  wrote:
I don't know if anyone is interested or this treads on anyone elses toes 
but

I thought I'd bring it to the attention of the group.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Other-electronics/Ot...

Steve


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Off topic (?)A crazy idea.. ?

[JohnK]

What about if it had PCB resist pens instead of fighting with Laser 
transfers?


{An older ink-jet I have also has a flat feed from back to the front for 
thick card but the thin sharp wheels that touch the printed surface for 
pressure dissuaded me from trying various inks as resists anyway. I suppose 
I could remove most of the little wheels so that they don't leave cuts in 
the resist.}


Anyone tinkered with any ink-jet deposited resists?

John K.

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Harboe Burer" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Off topic (?)A crazy idea.. ?


Here's a tool which is called "pick me up" for rhinestones and so on.. 
thats what triggered me...


http://www.silhouetteamerica.com/tools.aspx

Jah, if it could cut thin metal I would have bought it right away.. I 
wonder if it can cut the thin copper tape used for shielding?


Dan
...clip... 


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Re: [neonixie-l] US power grid frequency tests.

[JohnK]

Maybe you missed this earlier piece of info:-
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5giHrMC9wYlOzOkUg9wNC2jVKugkw?docId=371623ab59694aef9f0a02fe83faca8a


john k.

- Original Message - 
From: "Instrument Resources of America" 



The mains "frequency", at least here in the U.S.  is always being
corrected for small variances that occur in the frequency during the
day. Therefore the overall error is none over a years time.  Clocks are
therefore always accurate and never need resetting, unless of course
there is a power failure, or when changing fron standard time to day
light saving time, and vice versa.  Ira

On 6/25/2011 11:01 AM, jb-electronics wrote:

Personally, I do not understand what the benefit is of using the mains
frequency. I always use a 4.194304MHz Quarz and so far all my clocks'
accuracies are very satisfactory.
...clip 


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Re: [neonixie-l] now a full 7179 clock from the same seller, check out those tubes

[JohnK]

Tested is tested. 
Bad is still tested.
Result of test is more interesting  :-))[ie parameters etc and pass/fail ]

john k
[it is like "matched pairs" in audio sales. Yeah, they match sort-of ; 
visually. ]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Wayne de Geere III 


  clip
  "6x Burroughs B-7971 B7971 Nixie Tube Vintage TESTED"
  ...clip.

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Re: [neonixie-l] now a full 7179 clock from the same seller, check out those tubes

[JohnK]

Generally, old electrolytic caps that have just been allowed to sit can be 
re-formed and henceforth operate properly. This allows the vintage component 
to remain in the vintage set. [Second-last resort is to hide a new type 
inside the old case. Last resort is to 'destroy' the vintage item by a 
butchery replacement. [Always keep all the old components for the next 
owner].


There are military re-former equipments. One has a table of capacitance vs 
allowed leakage current vs voltage. Google for more info - but beware the 
Audiophools.


John Kaesehagen.
[PS. Reforming is just the [slow] application of a [preferably guarded] 
voltage to the capacitor - exactly as was done during manufacture. ]





- Original Message - 
From: Adam Jacobs
That was the first thing I noticed, too. Those are the old paper & oil 
electrolytic caps, I think. In tube radios it is common practice to replace 
those as fast as possible. ...clip 


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: US power grid frequency tests.

[JohnK]

All this talk of line frequency reminds me of when we attached a 'powerful' 
audio sig gen to the lecture room clock back in 1968. Got us 10 mins less 
boredom.


John K.

- Original Message - 
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: US power grid frequency tests.




The vast majority of line powered clocks use
the grid frequency for timing,
clip 


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: now a full 7179 clock from the same seller, check out those tubes

[JohnK]

Yes it was wasn't it.

However the scenario I had in mind [and my experience] both allow for 
'probably' OK.
The mil capacitors of post-war gear have been good for treatment if just 
lousy due to storage time.
The capacitors in old commercial radios any era depend on manufacturer. I 
don't collect them but had re-furbished two with sentimental value - hence 
the caps are disconnected and new types 'temporarily' fitted. This is to 
protect the mains transformer as much as anything else. Added thermal fuse 
to transformers as insurance -weak as it may be.

WWII caps are hit and miss.

The capacitors that you mention "a hostile-ish environment (near tubes and 
other sources of heat)," are in a category that I call Faulty or worn out. I 
am/was talking about OK caps that were stored for ages - they can be 
revitalised [generally] and I hear such comments from WWII Rx collectors  eg 
WS19 which is much in vogue over your way.


I have had more trouble with 'modern' caps. Even the manufacturers specs 
don't give you much confidence in commercial quality electros. I can 
remember the probs we [a gov dept] experienced at inwards goods - eg the 
Philips electros came in different 'life' categories. They were marked the 
same; only difference was the physical size. Some suppliers were either 
trying it on or were as ignorant as some of our inspectors !


With 'modern' gear I replace instead of mucking about; and some collector 
will rant and rave about it in 50 years  :-))


Speaking of modern - a capacitor characteristic often overlooked in current 
times is the manufacturer specified operating voltage RANGE. Using a cap 
well below the marked voltage causes it to do two things; lose capacitance 
and also become resistive [ie leaky, but not liquid if you follow me]. In 
the 90s I was trouble-shooter at a largish [>2000 employee] local company 
and there were product recalls due to acceptance of electro caps of higher 
than specified voltage. eg 50V instead of 6V. The circuit already worked at 
a non-optimum <2.5V across the cap and that was acknowledged in the design.


I guess I was motivated by my hate of needless destruction of old gear. 
Attempt a reform - replace if required.


John K.
[PS  The very old electros that slosh when you move them are better 
'temporarily' replaced as I have done in my old Airzone. An explosion of 
those is a real mess and dangerous. The explosion of a typical WWII and 
later type just results in a bit of paste splatter and tons of paper and 
foil. (says I who had just moved his unprotetced eyes to the other side of 
my home-made 6 x 807 surplus parts guitar amp. As a schoolboy I just 
purchased the WWII surplus caps and wired them up. 800V parts and used at 
650V. )]


[PPS. I suppose this is one of those topics you mentioned that moved 
off-topic is it?]




- Original Message - 
From: "Nick" 


On Jun 30, 8:53 am, "JohnK"  wrote:

Generally, old electrolytic caps that have just been allowed to sit can be
re-formed and henceforth operate properly.



From: "Nick" 

That's a bit of a sweeping statement. Of the kit I've rebuilt, the
electrolytics have typically dried out, and thus cannot be reformed.
Many were not sealed well and as they were operating is a hostile-ish
environment (near tubes and other sources of heat), they often dry
completely.


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: now a full 7179 clock from the same seller, check out those tubes

[JohnK]

Depends on def of 'old-timer' - I am >60   :-)
The caps I mentioned caused probs in mid1990s . The life-vs-volts was 
available in the manufacturer data that the Lab used. Often very detailed 
spec sheets were sourced from the manufacturers. And capacitor purchases 
were in the millions - promoted a degree of cooperation.



"with electrolytics, you want to run them as
close as the max rated voltage as possible."  is exactly what I was 
attempting to impart   :-((


John K.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: US power grid frequency tests.

[JohnK]

As to our hardware: the valve/tube audio oscillator could provide watts of 
output. I can't remember if we had to add a transformer eg speaker 
transformer in reverse. The venue was a government department training 
school. That particular lecture room was adjacent to the site technical 
equipment room and projection booth. The equipment room housed a couple of 
racks of comms, telephone and PA and time-announcer/bell ringer etc. Wasn't 
a problem to park the large osc in there. The single pair jumper wire [used 
for interconnecting the racks via tag blocks ie mdf, idf etc] was noticable 
running between the top of the projection window frame and the clock. It was 
an old building and pretty scruffy looking which helped with the lack of 
extra camo.


John K.




- Original Message - 
From: "A.J. Franzman" 

I always wondered just how
it was done, and the size of the hardware that would be required. Of
course today it's fairly trivial to do in a small package, but back
then, I'm not so sure.


On Jun 30, 1:01 am, "JohnK"  wrote:


All this talk of line frequency reminds me of when we attached a 
'powerful'

audio sig gen to the lecture room clock back in 1968. Got us 10 mins less
boredom.



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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: US power grid frequency tests.

[JohnK]

Er, are we being sloppy here rounding 17 to 20? Or do the weirder countries 
[ie not Australia :-)) ] use 20 ?  I thought it was bad enough rounding 16 
2/3 [16 and two thirds]  to 17 !
My home system used a motorised exchange ringer running at 16 2/3  . Had to 
replace the contacts with standard 3000 type as the scrappies always ripped 
the platinum ones off.


John K.
[apologies for more drift in subject ]


- Original Message - 
From: "Wayne de Geere III" 


You must be a real phone fan to know that proper ring generation is at 
20Hz, I'm impressed!


On 2011 Jun 30, at 20:34 , David Forbes wrote:

I used to own an HP 201B audio signal generator. It was powerful enough 
to ring a telephone bell, providing 100V RMS at 20 Hz.




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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: US power grid frequency tests.

[JohnK]

Yes, I have some magneto [wooden and beakelite] phones too. [And a lovely 
tech's intstrument circuits book dated 1914 when they 'rationalised' the 
system here.]


After all the time-base talk re the grid and at other times [atomic] I 
thought that I had better determine whether the current posters had taken 
off their Nixie-clock-foible hats  :-))   .


The ringer I mentioned has several sets of cam/contact for specific ring 
styles too.
[Dad was telephone guy and was twice given the honour of making the last 
call from a closing exchange as part of the 'ceremony'.  Still got the 
'gold' phone and the 'gold-painted bi-directional selector' given as 
memento.


John K.


- Original Message - 
From: "threeneurons" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 11:56 AM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: US power grid frequency tests.





> Er, are we being sloppy here rounding 17 to 20? Or do the weirder 
> countries
> [ie not Australia :-)) ] use 20 ? I thought it was bad enough rounding 
> 16

> 2/3 [16 and two thirds] to 17 !


Just remember the origins of the 1st ring generators:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34878756@N04/5559552293/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34878756@N04/5559593001/

You cranked them by hand. Frequency and voltage regulation might be a
bit iffy.


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: 3000 tubes per year?

[JohnK]

OK, so you have just outlined what you can do this weekend.. what are you 
going to do for the rest of the next week?   :-))


John K.
[who greatly appreciates that top notch report from you]

- Original Message - 
From: "dylan roelofs" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 2:27 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: 3000 tubes per year?


Gentlemen-
  My name is Dylan Kehde Roelofs; I've been a scientific glassblower
for 20 years, and I believe I can answer a few of your questions..

clip 


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Re: [neonixie-l] OB3 voltage regulators

[JohnK]

Out of interest, do they all regulate OK?  BTW, 60mA is prob high - my data 
suggests that Ik is 5mA min and 30 to 40mA max.  The min supply voltage starts 
at 105V. 

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Shane Ellis 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] OB3 voltage regulators


  Drat, and double drat.  I was really hoping I had some defective tubes here.  
they look pretty and purple in the dark, but not so much with the lights on.
  Oh well, I'll stick to neon, and nixies I guess!
  Thanks!
  Shane.



  On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 1:03 AM, David Forbes  wrote:

On 7/13/11 10:47 PM, Mimewar wrote:

  Does anyone here have any experience with the OB3 voltage regulator
  tubes?  I have a set of four, and one works, but it's not nearly as
  bright as I have seen in pictures.  I am feeding it 175V, at about
  60mA current.  Any ideas?

  Shane




Cameras lie. Photos of glowing things are often much more glowy than the 
same objects appear to the eyeball.

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