Re: OT ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Ariel Gold]

Sure, some of the radical rhetoric, on both sides, sounds scary, and I
understand people are upset and angry. While I don't think a listserv lends
to people understanding each other on a volatile issue like this, I thought
I'd still share this link from the conservative think tank, the Cato
Institute.

Misguided Fears of Crime Fuel Arizona Immigration Law
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/04/27/misguided-fears-of-crime-fuel-arizona-immigration-law/




2010/5/17 Bryan O'Neal 

> Indeed I did ;)
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Tim Noeding 
> wrote:
> > Flame wars? Really? Did you all read that linux magazine article about
> how
> > the editor thinks they are enjoyable reads?
> >
> > from my DROID
> >
> > On May 17, 2010 9:41 PM, "Bryan O'Neal"
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Did you not even read you cited references? It is more like if I
> > called your mama fat beat you up and then drove off down the street in
> > your car after tossing you a few bucks and a pick of your naked sister
> > out the window onto your limp body and then when the cops showed up
> > made you say thank you and apologize for wasting my time ;)
> >
> > Not that I am complaining. I think it was a bold move that paid off
> > very, very, well. But denying the nature of the conflict is like
> > saying the Civil War was fought over slavery. It is fine for your Jr.
> > High text book but when grow, otherwise intelligent, people try
> > spouting that stuff they are either American idiots or just don't
> > care.
> >
> > To quote from the wikipidia page you cited.
> >
> > "The Mexican–American War was an armed conflict between the United
> > States and Mexico from 1846 to 1848 in the wake of the 1845 U.S.
> > annexation of Texas, which Mexico considered part of its territory
> > despite the 1836 Texas Revolution.
> >
> > In addition to a naval blockade of the Mexican coast, American forces
> > invaded and conquered New Mexico, California and parts of northern
> > Mexico. Another American army captured Mexico City, forcing Mexico to
> > agree to the sale of its northern territories to the U.S."
> >
> > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:47 PM, JD Austin  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at...
> >
> >> ---
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Re: Linux dual boot?

[Stephen]

I think my posts got blended with a dual boot the 2nd drive will allow
you to preserve your finicky windows 7 bootsector

It can help with some performance issues to have your virtual drives
stored on a seperate physical drive from the OS especially in vmware
server on windows it can make your system crawl

I do alot of weird vm things just to try them and there is a setting
that looks like you can map a virtual machine directly to a physical
storage device but I'm out of room to test this fully but it would be
immense to have a dual boot with vm abilities for you to access your
non dominant os

That's been my holy grail of vm/dual boot (just above accelerated
graphics in a vm)


On 5/17/10, Bryan O'Neal  wrote:
> Stephen why the external drive vrs a virtual drive using virtual box
> or VMWare? Just seeing if you have something cool you can do with it I
> have not thought of.
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Stephen  wrote:
>> So far all great suggestions. If you can afford it i would suggest a
>> new/extra HDD for your Linux install and setting it to be your first
>> drive (after you install windows with the "spare drive" unplugged
>>
>> That way you have a drive you can torture and alter to your hearts
>> content, and you don't have to worry about breaking the boot sector on
>> your win7 install. It is not repairable, you can back it up with any
>> number of tools (i like clonezilla)
>>
>> and for a bistro to learn with, Depending on your personal technical
>> masochism you can install Gentoo. It made me want to chuck my computer
>> out the window during install, but when i was done I knew a great deal
>> more about the underbelly of Linux, and Gentoo is pretty well
>> documented.
>>
>> but the extra HDD i think is a very good suggestion. especially when
>> learning.
>> ---
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-- 
Sent from my mobile device

A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: Linux dual boot?

[Joseph Sinclair]

Nice to see an on-topic post; thanks Mike.



Depends on what you want to learn and how stable you need it to be.

For stable, I'd go with the latest Fedora, RHEL (and plan to upgrade to 6 when 
it's out), or Debian stable (should be out soon).

For more learning-on-the-edge I'd try sidux (In fact I'm doing that on my 
laptop as soon as I have a few hours to run the install and tweak things).
It's Debian Sid (not terribly stable bleeding-edge) with some cleanup to make 
it slightly less unstable, and a lot easier to install.

The advantage:
  Absolute bleeding edge Debian with the latest kernel, drivers, software, 
etc...
  Debian!
  None of the *@&# Canonical and Gnome have dumped into Ubuntu that finally 
persuaded me it's not worth the effort.
The Disadvantages:
  Not as stable as official Debian releases (although it's pretty close to the 
stability of Ubuntu or Fedora)
  Always updating, so you have to create your own "release cycle" by choosing 
when to update (which means watching the fora and updating when it's relatively 
stable, then cherry-picking only important updates between times).
  A lot less polished, so you'll have to learn a good bit more system 
administration and other tasks the newer GUI tools cover over in the more 
polished distros.
  If it breaks, it's your problem.  DO NOT run sidux on a line-of-business 
system that can't be down for a few days if something goes wrong.



My next system will probably be an AMD 1090T (Hexacore!) or an Opteron 12-core 
CPU (if I can afford that one).  That is, unless a better CPU comes out between 
now and when I scrape together the cash for a new "big" system.
I'll also probably load up 12G or more of RAM (the Opteron would support up to 
64G, IIRC).
I generally prefer the AMD chips, as they're a LOT cheaper per-core, and I've 
had a lot of issues with Hyperthreading in Intel chips actually slowing things 
down, but my workloads are not "normal", either.

If I had $12K just laying around I'd probably pick up something like the server 
system here (http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/system/2U/2042/AS-2042G-6RF.cfm) 
with 4 12-core CPU, 128G RAM and 6 1TB drives (and do a bit of rewiring on the 
house to support the dual 1200W power supplies).



As for what I'd recommend to someone NOT looking for a video 
processor/compilation workhorse/VM host:

If you want a Gaming monstrosity, check out the i7 980x for Intel 
6-core/12-thread bliss (although it costs $1000), and pair it with a nice 
quartet of high-end Radeon GPU's (like a pair of HD 5970 or 4 HD 5870 cards) in 
a crossfire setup.
The slight edge in single-thread performance on the i7 makes a difference when 
building a rig for playing high-end video games, and for a high-end gaming rig, 
CPU price shouldn't be a major concern (especially if you intend to go 
whole-hog and enable maximum power-boost support with a phase-change cooling 
setup).



If you want a true low-cost value system for 64-bit, however, try the new Intel 
Atom D510 for 64-bit dual-core at a seriously low power usage (13 watts, 
including graphics).  It tops out, however, at 4G (and not all boards support 
that), so 64-bit is more for style than real need.
For 1080p video playback, make sure to pick an ion2 system, although that will 
require running the NVidia binary blobs and adds a few watts to the power usage.
Just don't try to run virtual machines on it, as it lacks VT-x support.


==Joseph++

mike Enriquez wrote:
> I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer
> with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro.
> I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only
> requirement is that it further my linux education.
> I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version.
> 
> Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use
> an i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to
> be DDR3 1600 MHz.
> 
> I am open to any ideas.  Please send me your ideas.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike Enriquez
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Re: Linux dual boot?

[Bryan O'Neal]

Stephen why the external drive vrs a virtual drive using virtual box
or VMWare? Just seeing if you have something cool you can do with it I
have not thought of.

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Stephen  wrote:
> So far all great suggestions. If you can afford it i would suggest a
> new/extra HDD for your Linux install and setting it to be your first
> drive (after you install windows with the "spare drive" unplugged
>
> That way you have a drive you can torture and alter to your hearts
> content, and you don't have to worry about breaking the boot sector on
> your win7 install. It is not repairable, you can back it up with any
> number of tools (i like clonezilla)
>
> and for a bistro to learn with, Depending on your personal technical
> masochism you can install Gentoo. It made me want to chuck my computer
> out the window during install, but when i was done I knew a great deal
> more about the underbelly of Linux, and Gentoo is pretty well
> documented.
>
> but the extra HDD i think is a very good suggestion. especially when learning.
> ---
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Re: Linux dual boot?

[Bryan O'Neal]

We really need to do a panel discussion on VM's for one of our
meetings. VMware is also free for basic use. If you want enterprise
features not available in things like virtual box you pay for it (But
you do get a 10% LUG discount). You can run VMWare server on windows,
linux, or even their own bare mettle OS ESX. The VM's are portable
between the systems (with the exception of if you create a 64bit VM
and try to move it to a 32bit server).  You can also put the server
on, well, a server and access  the VM's over a web page.

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Stephen  wrote:
> If you go with a virtual machine route you can also go with
> virtualbox. it has matured well, and has some hardware graphics
> acceleration. Also you can get a FOSS version that is cross platform.
> so if you decide to switch you can save your vm's and move them.
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Bryan O'Neal
>  wrote:
>> I will agree with that as well. Unless you have a vid capture card or
>> some other special hardware VM's are a much better option for learning
>> Linux. And VMWare is supper easy
>>
>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Eric Shubert  wrote:
>>> I concur.
>>> I also strongly recommend running additional hosts as virtual machines
>>> (either with VirtualBox or VMware Player/Workstation) instead of dual
>>> booting. VMs are much nicer to use.
>>> --
>>> -Eric 'shubes'
>>>
>>> Bryan O'Neal wrote:

 I agree - The SuSE, RedHat (Fedora), and Debian (Ubuntu) branches are
 quite different but all very good. See which one you like best.
 Personally I loved SuSE at first but could not spend the time to learn
 it as well as Fedora or Ubuntu. And, well, Ubuntu just amazes me at
 how simple it can be for simple things, like printing, so it get heavy
 props.
 For servers I am almost pure RedHat (Cent OS to be specific) for
 desktops I have one Ubuntu and one Fedora on my desk. I use them both
 equally.

 On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Mark Phillips
  wrote:
>
> I am partial to Debian. I have it running on a a 64bit Dell laptop for
> about
> 6 months with no problems. I also run Windows 7 Pro as a virtual machine.
>
> Mark
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:58 PM, mike Enriquez  wrote:
>>
>> I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer
>> with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro.
>> I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only
>> requirement is that it further my linux education.
>> I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version.
>>
>> Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use
>> an
>> i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be
>> DDR3 1600 MHz.
>>
>> I am open to any ideas.  Please send me your ideas.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mike Enriquez
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>>>
>>> ---
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>
>
>
> --
> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>
> Stephen
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Re: Linux dual boot?

[Stephen]

If you go with a virtual machine route you can also go with
virtualbox. it has matured well, and has some hardware graphics
acceleration. Also you can get a FOSS version that is cross platform.
so if you decide to switch you can save your vm's and move them.

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Bryan O'Neal
 wrote:
> I will agree with that as well. Unless you have a vid capture card or
> some other special hardware VM's are a much better option for learning
> Linux. And VMWare is supper easy
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Eric Shubert  wrote:
>> I concur.
>> I also strongly recommend running additional hosts as virtual machines
>> (either with VirtualBox or VMware Player/Workstation) instead of dual
>> booting. VMs are much nicer to use.
>> --
>> -Eric 'shubes'
>>
>> Bryan O'Neal wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree - The SuSE, RedHat (Fedora), and Debian (Ubuntu) branches are
>>> quite different but all very good. See which one you like best.
>>> Personally I loved SuSE at first but could not spend the time to learn
>>> it as well as Fedora or Ubuntu. And, well, Ubuntu just amazes me at
>>> how simple it can be for simple things, like printing, so it get heavy
>>> props.
>>> For servers I am almost pure RedHat (Cent OS to be specific) for
>>> desktops I have one Ubuntu and one Fedora on my desk. I use them both
>>> equally.
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Mark Phillips
>>>  wrote:

 I am partial to Debian. I have it running on a a 64bit Dell laptop for
 about
 6 months with no problems. I also run Windows 7 Pro as a virtual machine.

 Mark

 On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:58 PM, mike Enriquez  wrote:
>
> I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer
> with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro.
> I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only
> requirement is that it further my linux education.
> I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version.
>
> Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use
> an
> i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be
> DDR3 1600 MHz.
>
> I am open to any ideas.  Please send me your ideas.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Enriquez
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss

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>>
>> ---
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-- 
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: Linux dual boot?

[Stephen]

So far all great suggestions. If you can afford it i would suggest a
new/extra HDD for your Linux install and setting it to be your first
drive (after you install windows with the "spare drive" unplugged

That way you have a drive you can torture and alter to your hearts
content, and you don't have to worry about breaking the boot sector on
your win7 install. It is not repairable, you can back it up with any
number of tools (i like clonezilla)

and for a bistro to learn with, Depending on your personal technical
masochism you can install Gentoo. It made me want to chuck my computer
out the window during install, but when i was done I knew a great deal
more about the underbelly of Linux, and Gentoo is pretty well
documented.

but the extra HDD i think is a very good suggestion. especially when learning.
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Tuna  wrote:

>
> >   I don't see why people who hold perfectly valid opinions with regards
> to
> > illegal aliens should feel alienated *in their own country*.  Enough of
> this
> > PC crap.
> >
> >   -jmz
> >
>
> No question the topic swelled to 70+ posts because many find this more
> inflammatory than others.



   it's inflammatory because it's an open wound.  -jmz



>
>
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Re: Linux dual boot?

[Bryan O'Neal]

I will agree with that as well. Unless you have a vid capture card or
some other special hardware VM's are a much better option for learning
Linux. And VMWare is supper easy

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Eric Shubert  wrote:
> I concur.
> I also strongly recommend running additional hosts as virtual machines
> (either with VirtualBox or VMware Player/Workstation) instead of dual
> booting. VMs are much nicer to use.
> --
> -Eric 'shubes'
>
> Bryan O'Neal wrote:
>>
>> I agree - The SuSE, RedHat (Fedora), and Debian (Ubuntu) branches are
>> quite different but all very good. See which one you like best.
>> Personally I loved SuSE at first but could not spend the time to learn
>> it as well as Fedora or Ubuntu. And, well, Ubuntu just amazes me at
>> how simple it can be for simple things, like printing, so it get heavy
>> props.
>> For servers I am almost pure RedHat (Cent OS to be specific) for
>> desktops I have one Ubuntu and one Fedora on my desk. I use them both
>> equally.
>>
>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Mark Phillips
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I am partial to Debian. I have it running on a a 64bit Dell laptop for
>>> about
>>> 6 months with no problems. I also run Windows 7 Pro as a virtual machine.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:58 PM, mike Enriquez  wrote:

 I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer
 with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro.
 I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only
 requirement is that it further my linux education.
 I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version.

 Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use
 an
 i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be
 DDR3 1600 MHz.

 I am open to any ideas.  Please send me your ideas.

 Thanks

 Mike Enriquez
 ---
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 To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>>>
>>> ---
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>
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Re: Linux dual boot?

[Eric Shubert]

I concur.
I also strongly recommend running additional hosts as virtual machines 
(either with VirtualBox or VMware Player/Workstation) instead of dual 
booting. VMs are much nicer to use.

--
-Eric 'shubes'

Bryan O'Neal wrote:

I agree - The SuSE, RedHat (Fedora), and Debian (Ubuntu) branches are
quite different but all very good. See which one you like best.
Personally I loved SuSE at first but could not spend the time to learn
it as well as Fedora or Ubuntu. And, well, Ubuntu just amazes me at
how simple it can be for simple things, like printing, so it get heavy
props.
For servers I am almost pure RedHat (Cent OS to be specific) for
desktops I have one Ubuntu and one Fedora on my desk. I use them both
equally.

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Mark Phillips
 wrote:

I am partial to Debian. I have it running on a a 64bit Dell laptop for about
6 months with no problems. I also run Windows 7 Pro as a virtual machine.

Mark

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:58 PM, mike Enriquez  wrote:

I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer
with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro.
I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only
requirement is that it further my linux education.
I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version.

Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use an
i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be
DDR3 1600 MHz.

I am open to any ideas.  Please send me your ideas.

Thanks

Mike Enriquez
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Tuna]

Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Mon May 17 22:14:09 -0700 2010:
>   I can respect that Tuna, but keep in mind that people say politically
> charged things all the time here without problem.  It's when we arrive at
> loaded topics like illegal aliens that suddenly registers as 'trolling'.
>  The fact is this issue effects us all, even as developers or Linux users,
> and most certainly as Arizonan residents.  Trying to blot out the discussion
> is just as caustic.  The fact that David seems tacitly supportive of groups
> like La Raza make it even more alarming.
> 
>   I don't see why people who hold perfectly valid opinions with regards to
> illegal aliens should feel alienated *in their own country*.  Enough of this
> PC crap.
> 
>   -jmz
>

No question the topic swelled to 70+ posts because many find this more 
inflammatory than others. I am only attempting to treat the effect, a 70+
post thread of worthless hissy fits.

I would have posted my lovely ASCII art if this was a discussion of traffic
light bias, horseradish recipes, gay marriage, animal rights, a new proposed 
sales tax, thebanning of "your mom" jokes on the lightrail, or the availability 
of finger sandwiches in downtown Tempe.
 
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Tuna  wrote:
> 
> > Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Mon May 17 21:44:38 -0700 2010:
> > >   To the rest,
> > >
> > >
> > > you're trying to tell me a few emails in your inbox is so absolutely
> > > painful you're going to throw a fit or something?
> > >
> >
> > At the time of writing, this thread is 67 messages long. That's more than a
> > few. Easy to ignore in my GMail-style threaded email client, although it
> > does
> > take about a minute to open this thread.
> >
> > > no, you just don't like what is being said...  but guess what- this
> > > issue is now front and center and as far as I'm concerned there is no
> > > controversy here if you are an concerned Arizonan.
> > >
> >
> > It's not that we don't like it, or even that we don't care. It's simply the
> > wrong place, and therefore trolling.
> >
> > We respect your political opinions, and many of us may even agree. But
> > please,
> > not on plug-discuss. This is not your personal enraged-chain-mail-list, or
> > your
> > television audience. This is a (shrinking) group of hobbyists and
> > professionals
> > that like to talk about Linux.
> >
> > >
> > >   -jmz
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >   Tuna,
> > > >
> > > > We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux
> > > > developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux.  Just
> > because
> > > > some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean
> > we
> > > > terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject.  Of course
> > some
> > > > people don't like it being discussed.  Those are the people who want to
> > > > prevent action from being taken.  There are some of these people on
> > this
> > > > thread.  How can we discuss anything these days without addressing
> > *what is
> > > > right in front of our faces every day*!?
> > > >
> > > > The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo.  It's not a
> > > > laughing matter.  Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you
> > that
> > > > these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american.  Our
> > state
> > > > is broke, as are many other states.  Our ability to maintain our
> > technology
> > > > sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves
> > politically.
> > > >  This means *your job*.  It might even be an opportunity to position
> > > > ourselves profitably relative to California.  Discussion is absolutely
> > > > critical to moving in the right direction.  Don't let people blow the
> > issue
> > > > out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground.
> > > >
> > > > That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX
> > service or
> > > > whatever other stuff is 'on topic'.
> > > >
> > > >   -jmz
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna  wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> /|  ___
> > > >>/ |   __-- --__  |\
> > > >>|  \_----_  /  |
> > > >>|)\/   |
> > > >> \__/ /
> > > >> ) ,-`
> > > >> /  0   ..   0 |
> > > >>/ /|   | ,
> > > >>\   ,__  / |   \/ |
> > > >> \ ```)
> > > >>  \__/
> > > >>ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public
> > > >> domain.
> > > >>
> > > >> Congrats, Zeidner.
> > > >>
> > > >> Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700
> > 2010:
> > > >> > Hello PLUG,
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >   I am wonderi

Re: Linux dual boot?

[Bryan O'Neal]

I agree - The SuSE, RedHat (Fedora), and Debian (Ubuntu) branches are
quite different but all very good. See which one you like best.
Personally I loved SuSE at first but could not spend the time to learn
it as well as Fedora or Ubuntu. And, well, Ubuntu just amazes me at
how simple it can be for simple things, like printing, so it get heavy
props.
For servers I am almost pure RedHat (Cent OS to be specific) for
desktops I have one Ubuntu and one Fedora on my desk. I use them both
equally.

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Mark Phillips
 wrote:
> I am partial to Debian. I have it running on a a 64bit Dell laptop for about
> 6 months with no problems. I also run Windows 7 Pro as a virtual machine.
>
> Mark
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:58 PM, mike Enriquez  wrote:
>>
>> I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer
>> with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro.
>> I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only
>> requirement is that it further my linux education.
>> I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version.
>>
>> Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use an
>> i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be
>> DDR3 1600 MHz.
>>
>> I am open to any ideas.  Please send me your ideas.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mike Enriquez
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
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Re: Linux dual boot?

[Mark Phillips]

I am partial to Debian. I have it running on a a 64bit Dell laptop for about
6 months with no problems. I also run Windows 7 Pro as a virtual machine.

Mark

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:58 PM, mike Enriquez  wrote:

> I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer
> with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro.
> I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only
> requirement is that it further my linux education.
> I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version.
>
> Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use an
> i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be
> DDR3 1600 MHz.
>
> I am open to any ideas.  Please send me your ideas.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Enriquez
>
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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Re: OT ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Bryan O'Neal]

Indeed I did ;)

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Tim Noeding  wrote:
> Flame wars? Really? Did you all read that linux magazine article about how
> the editor thinks they are enjoyable reads?
>
> from my DROID
>
> On May 17, 2010 9:41 PM, "Bryan O'Neal"
>  wrote:
>
> Did you not even read you cited references? It is more like if I
> called your mama fat beat you up and then drove off down the street in
> your car after tossing you a few bucks and a pick of your naked sister
> out the window onto your limp body and then when the cops showed up
> made you say thank you and apologize for wasting my time ;)
>
> Not that I am complaining. I think it was a bold move that paid off
> very, very, well. But denying the nature of the conflict is like
> saying the Civil War was fought over slavery. It is fine for your Jr.
> High text book but when grow, otherwise intelligent, people try
> spouting that stuff they are either American idiots or just don't
> care.
>
> To quote from the wikipidia page you cited.
>
> "The Mexican–American War was an armed conflict between the United
> States and Mexico from 1846 to 1848 in the wake of the 1845 U.S.
> annexation of Texas, which Mexico considered part of its territory
> despite the 1836 Texas Revolution.
>
> In addition to a naval blockade of the Mexican coast, American forces
> invaded and conquered New Mexico, California and parts of northern
> Mexico. Another American army captured Mexico City, forcing Mexico to
> agree to the sale of its northern territories to the U.S."
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:47 PM, JD Austin  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at...
>
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - plug-disc...@lis...
>
> ---
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

   you either support their politics or you don't.  I'm sure I'm not the
only one who will assume that you do support them if you fail to provide a
decisive answer to the question.

   -jmz


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:21 PM, David  wrote:

> And I asked why. An even simpler question to answer, it would seem.
>
> David
>
> "I find your lack of faith disturbing"
> --Darth Vader
>
> On May 17, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>Will you condemn and denounce them?  simple question.  We're not
> comparing to other groups.
>
>   -jmz
>
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:56 PM, David < 
> da...@damnetwork.net> wrote:
>
>> Why?  Serious inquiry.   From my brief reading, they don't do anything
>> many other political groups do.
>>
>> David
>>
>> "I find your lack of faith disturbing."
>> --Darth Vader
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 17, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >David,
>> >
>> >  Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and
>> MEChA right now?
>> >
>> >-jmz
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David < 
>> da...@damnetwork.net> wrote:
>> > Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican.
>> >
>> > Yes, a personal attack.  Just as the comment I'm referring to is.
>> >
>> > David
>> > "I find your lack of faith disturbing."
>> > --Darth Vader
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >   Tuna,
>> > >
>> > > We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux
>> developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux.  Just because
>> some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we
>> terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject.  Of course some
>> people don't like it being discussed.  Those are the people who want to
>> prevent action from being taken.  There are some of these people on this
>> thread.  How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is
>> right in front of our faces every day*!?
>> > >
>> > > The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo.  It's not a
>> laughing matter.  Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that
>> these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american.  Our state
>> is broke, as are many other states.  Our ability to maintain our technology
>> sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically.
>>  This means *your job*.  It might even be an opportunity to position
>> ourselves profitably relative to California.  Discussion is absolutely
>> critical to moving in the right direction.  Don't let people blow the issue
>> out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground.
>> > >
>> > > That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX
>> service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'.
>> > >
>> > >   -jmz
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna < 
>> t...@supertunaman.com> wrote:
>> > > /|  ___
>> > >/ |   __-- --__  |\
>> > >|  \_----_  /  |
>> > >|)\/   |
>> > > \__/ /
>> > > ) ,-`
>> > > /  0   ..   0 |
>> > >/ /|   | ,
>> > >\   ,__  / |   \/ |
>> > > \ ```)
>> > >  \__/
>> > >ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL
>> > >
>> > > I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public
>> domain.
>> > >
>> > > Congrats, Zeidner.
>> > >
>> > > Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700
>> 2010:
>> > > > Hello PLUG,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >   I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to
>> the recent
>> > > > Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> 
>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo
>> > > > te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
>> > > >
>> > > > <
>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v
>> > > > ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
>> > > >  Hopefully
>> > > > they will choose Linux.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > -jmz
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > >
>>
>
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Re: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group

[Bryan O'Neal]

Will do ;)

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Tim Noeding  wrote:
> I'm linux only at home, but at work that's not the case. I am also always
> willing to learn, so if you kick this off please throw me an invite.
>
> from my DROID
>
> On May 17, 2010 9:23 PM, "mike Enriquez"  wrote:
>
> Sign me I'll join your new group.
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 05/17/2010 08:20 AM, Jared Shapiro wrote:
>>
>> Sign me up for the MAUG !  js
>>
>> -Ori...
>
> ---
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[David]

And I asked why. An even simpler question to answer, it would seem.

David

"I find your lack of faith disturbing"
--Darth Vader

On May 17, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:

> 
> 
> 
>Will you condemn and denounce them?  simple question.  We're not comparing 
> to other groups.
> 
>   -jmz
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:56 PM, David  wrote:
> Why?  Serious inquiry.   From my brief reading, they don't do anything many 
> other political groups do.
> 
> David
> 
> "I find your lack of faith disturbing."
> --Darth Vader
> 
> 
> 
> On May 17, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >David,
> >
> >  Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and MEChA 
> > right now?
> >
> >-jmz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David  wrote:
> > Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican.
> >
> > Yes, a personal attack.  Just as the comment I'm referring to is.
> >
> > David
> > "I find your lack of faith disturbing."
> > --Darth Vader
> >
> >
> >
> > On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >   Tuna,
> > >
> > > We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux 
> > > developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux.  Just 
> > > because some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does 
> > > not mean we terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject.  
> > > Of course some people don't like it being discussed.  Those are the 
> > > people who want to prevent action from being taken.  There are some of 
> > > these people on this thread.  How can we discuss anything these days 
> > > without addressing *what is right in front of our faces every day*!?
> > >
> > > The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo.  It's not a 
> > > laughing matter.  Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that 
> > > these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american.  Our 
> > > state is broke, as are many other states.  Our ability to maintain our 
> > > technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves 
> > > politically.  This means *your job*.  It might even be an opportunity to 
> > > position ourselves profitably relative to California.  Discussion is 
> > > absolutely critical to moving in the right direction.  Don't let people 
> > > blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial 
> > > battleground.
> > >
> > > That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service 
> > > or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'.
> > >
> > >   -jmz
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna  wrote:
> > > /|  ___
> > >/ |   __-- --__  |\
> > >|  \_----_  /  |
> > >|)\/   |
> > > \__/ /
> > > ) ,-`
> > > /  0   ..   0 |
> > >/ /|   | ,
> > >\   ,__  / |   \/ |
> > > \ ```)
> > >  \__/
> > >ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL
> > >
> > > I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public 
> > > domain.
> > >
> > > Congrats, Zeidner.
> > >
> > > Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010:
> > > > Hello PLUG,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the 
> > > > recent
> > > > Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo
> > > > te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
> > > >
> > > >  > > > ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
> > > >  Hopefully
> > > > they will choose Linux.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -jmz
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > ---
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> 
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

  I can respect that Tuna, but keep in mind that people say politically
charged things all the time here without problem.  It's when we arrive at
loaded topics like illegal aliens that suddenly registers as 'trolling'.
 The fact is this issue effects us all, even as developers or Linux users,
and most certainly as Arizonan residents.  Trying to blot out the discussion
is just as caustic.  The fact that David seems tacitly supportive of groups
like La Raza make it even more alarming.

  I don't see why people who hold perfectly valid opinions with regards to
illegal aliens should feel alienated *in their own country*.  Enough of this
PC crap.

  -jmz



On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Tuna  wrote:

> Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Mon May 17 21:44:38 -0700 2010:
> >   To the rest,
> >
> >
> > you're trying to tell me a few emails in your inbox is so absolutely
> > painful you're going to throw a fit or something?
> >
>
> At the time of writing, this thread is 67 messages long. That's more than a
> few. Easy to ignore in my GMail-style threaded email client, although it
> does
> take about a minute to open this thread.
>
> > no, you just don't like what is being said...  but guess what- this
> > issue is now front and center and as far as I'm concerned there is no
> > controversy here if you are an concerned Arizonan.
> >
>
> It's not that we don't like it, or even that we don't care. It's simply the
> wrong place, and therefore trolling.
>
> We respect your political opinions, and many of us may even agree. But
> please,
> not on plug-discuss. This is not your personal enraged-chain-mail-list, or
> your
> television audience. This is a (shrinking) group of hobbyists and
> professionals
> that like to talk about Linux.
>
> >
> >   -jmz
> >
> > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner 
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >   Tuna,
> > >
> > > We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux
> > > developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux.  Just
> because
> > > some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean
> we
> > > terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject.  Of course
> some
> > > people don't like it being discussed.  Those are the people who want to
> > > prevent action from being taken.  There are some of these people on
> this
> > > thread.  How can we discuss anything these days without addressing
> *what is
> > > right in front of our faces every day*!?
> > >
> > > The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo.  It's not a
> > > laughing matter.  Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you
> that
> > > these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american.  Our
> state
> > > is broke, as are many other states.  Our ability to maintain our
> technology
> > > sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves
> politically.
> > >  This means *your job*.  It might even be an opportunity to position
> > > ourselves profitably relative to California.  Discussion is absolutely
> > > critical to moving in the right direction.  Don't let people blow the
> issue
> > > out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground.
> > >
> > > That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX
> service or
> > > whatever other stuff is 'on topic'.
> > >
> > >   -jmz
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna  wrote:
> > >
> > >> /|  ___
> > >>/ |   __-- --__  |\
> > >>|  \_----_  /  |
> > >>|)\/   |
> > >> \__/ /
> > >> ) ,-`
> > >> /  0   ..   0 |
> > >>/ /|   | ,
> > >>\   ,__  / |   \/ |
> > >> \ ```)
> > >>  \__/
> > >>ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public
> > >> domain.
> > >>
> > >> Congrats, Zeidner.
> > >>
> > >> Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700
> 2010:
> > >> > Hello PLUG,
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >   I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to
> the
> > >> recent
> > >> > Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo
> > >> > te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
> > >> >
> > >> > <
> > >>
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v
> > >> > ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
> > >> >  Hopefully
> > >> > they will choose Linux.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > -jmz
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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Re: Linux dual boot?

[Tim Noeding]

I recommend giving opensuse, ubuntu, and fedora a try. Any of those will be
a great start. If you want to try a server, I'd go with centos since its
exactly like rhel.
If you have any questions feel free to contact me off list.
from my DROID

On May 17, 2010 9:58 PM, "mike Enriquez"  wrote:

I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer
with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro.
I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only
requirement is that it further my linux education.
I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version.

Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use an
i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be
DDR3 1600 MHz.

I am open to any ideas.  Please send me your ideas.

Thanks

Mike Enriquez
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Tuna]

Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Mon May 17 21:44:38 -0700 2010:
>   To the rest,
> 
> 
> you're trying to tell me a few emails in your inbox is so absolutely
> painful you're going to throw a fit or something?
>

At the time of writing, this thread is 67 messages long. That's more than a
few. Easy to ignore in my GMail-style threaded email client, although it does
take about a minute to open this thread.
 
> no, you just don't like what is being said...  but guess what- this
> issue is now front and center and as far as I'm concerned there is no
> controversy here if you are an concerned Arizonan.
> 

It's not that we don't like it, or even that we don't care. It's simply the 
wrong place, and therefore trolling.

We respect your political opinions, and many of us may even agree. But please,
not on plug-discuss. This is not your personal enraged-chain-mail-list, or your
television audience. This is a (shrinking) group of hobbyists and professionals
that like to talk about Linux.

> 
>   -jmz
> 
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:
> 
> >
> >   Tuna,
> >
> > We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux
> > developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux.  Just because
> > some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we
> > terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject.  Of course some
> > people don't like it being discussed.  Those are the people who want to
> > prevent action from being taken.  There are some of these people on this
> > thread.  How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is
> > right in front of our faces every day*!?
> >
> > The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo.  It's not a
> > laughing matter.  Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that
> > these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american.  Our state
> > is broke, as are many other states.  Our ability to maintain our technology
> > sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically.
> >  This means *your job*.  It might even be an opportunity to position
> > ourselves profitably relative to California.  Discussion is absolutely
> > critical to moving in the right direction.  Don't let people blow the issue
> > out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground.
> >
> > That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or
> > whatever other stuff is 'on topic'.
> >
> >   -jmz
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna  wrote:
> >
> >> /|  ___
> >>/ |   __-- --__  |\
> >>|  \_----_  /  |
> >>|)\/   |
> >> \__/ /
> >> ) ,-`
> >> /  0   ..   0 |
> >>/ /|   | ,
> >>\   ,__  / |   \/ |
> >> \ ```)
> >>  \__/
> >>ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL
> >>
> >>
> >> I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public
> >> domain.
> >>
> >> Congrats, Zeidner.
> >>
> >> Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010:
> >> > Hello PLUG,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >   I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the
> >> recent
> >> > Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo
> >> > te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
> >> >
> >> > <
> >> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v
> >> > ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
> >> >  Hopefully
> >> > they will choose Linux.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -jmz
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >
> >
> 
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

   Will you condemn and denounce them?  simple question.  We're not
comparing to other groups.

  -jmz


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:56 PM, David  wrote:

> Why?  Serious inquiry.   From my brief reading, they don't do anything many
> other political groups do.
>
> David
>
> "I find your lack of faith disturbing."
> --Darth Vader
>
>
>
> On May 17, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >David,
> >
> >  Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and MEChA
> right now?
> >
> >-jmz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David  wrote:
> > Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican.
> >
> > Yes, a personal attack.  Just as the comment I'm referring to is.
> >
> > David
> > "I find your lack of faith disturbing."
> > --Darth Vader
> >
> >
> >
> > On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >   Tuna,
> > >
> > > We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux
> developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux.  Just because
> some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we
> terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject.  Of course some
> people don't like it being discussed.  Those are the people who want to
> prevent action from being taken.  There are some of these people on this
> thread.  How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is
> right in front of our faces every day*!?
> > >
> > > The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo.  It's not a
> laughing matter.  Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that
> these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american.  Our state
> is broke, as are many other states.  Our ability to maintain our technology
> sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically.
>  This means *your job*.  It might even be an opportunity to position
> ourselves profitably relative to California.  Discussion is absolutely
> critical to moving in the right direction.  Don't let people blow the issue
> out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground.
> > >
> > > That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX
> service or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'.
> > >
> > >   -jmz
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna  wrote:
> > > /|  ___
> > >/ |   __-- --__  |\
> > >|  \_----_  /  |
> > >|)\/   |
> > > \__/ /
> > > ) ,-`
> > > /  0   ..   0 |
> > >/ /|   | ,
> > >\   ,__  / |   \/ |
> > > \ ```)
> > >  \__/
> > >ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL
> > >
> > > I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public
> domain.
> > >
> > > Congrats, Zeidner.
> > >
> > > Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700
> 2010:
> > > > Hello PLUG,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the
> recent
> > > > Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo
> > > > te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
> > > >
> > > > <
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v
> > > > ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
> > > >  Hopefully
> > > > they will choose Linux.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -jmz
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > ---
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Tim Noeding]

@tuna thank you for the art! I'm deffinately going to use it. Probably the
best part of this thread.

from my DROID

On May 17, 2010 8:33 PM, "Tuna"  wrote:

/|  ___
   / |   __-- --__  |\
   |  \_----_  /  |
   |)\/   |
\__/ /
) ,-`
/  0   ..   0 |
   / /|   | ,
   \   ,__  / |   \/ |
\ ```)
 \__/
   SUCCESSFUL TROLL IS SUCCESSFUL

I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public
domain.

Congrats, Zeidner.

Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010:

> Hello PLUG,
>
>
>
> I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the
recen...

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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Tuna]

Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Mon May 17 21:37:56 -0700 2010:
>   Tuna,
> 
> We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux
> developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux.  Just because
> some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we
> terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject.  Of course some
> people don't like it being discussed.  Those are the people who want to
> prevent action from being taken.  There are some of these people on this
> thread.  How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is
> right in front of our faces every day*!?
>

The subject remains, however, off-topic. It has nothing to do with your 
political opinions, or your expression thereof. All I'm saying is, choose
your medium. Many of us are friends with you on Facebook or some other 
social networking site, and a few of us read your blog. Also respect that 
most people on this list are pedantic about what is off-topic, or simply 
do not care.
 
> The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo.  It's not a
> laughing matter.  Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that
> these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american.  Our state
> is broke, as are many other states.  Our ability to maintain our technology
> sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically.
>  This means *your job*.  It might even be an opportunity to position
> ourselves profitably relative to California.  Discussion is absolutely
> critical to moving in the right direction.  Don't let people blow the issue
> out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground.
> 
> That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or
> whatever other stuff is 'on topic'.
> 

I hate those threads too. Internet memo: either we already know that there's a
Cox outage, or we don't care because we don't subscribe to Cox, thankyou.

>   -jmz
> 
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna  wrote:
> 
> > /|  ___
> >/ |   __-- --__  |\
> >|  \_----_  /  |
> >|)\/   |
> > \__/ /
> > ) ,-`
> > /  0   ..   0 |
> >/ /|   | ,
> >\   ,__  / |   \/ |
> > \ ```)
> >  \__/
> >ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL
> >
> > I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public
> > domain.
> >
> > Congrats, Zeidner.
> >
> > Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010:
> > > Hello PLUG,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the
> > recent
> > > Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo
> > > te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
> > >
> > > <
> > http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v
> > > ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
> > >  Hopefully
> > > they will choose Linux.
> > >
> > >
> > > -jmz
> > >
> >
> > --
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Re: OT ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Tim Noeding]

Flame wars? Really? Did you all read that linux magazine article about how
the editor thinks they are enjoyable reads?

from my DROID

On May 17, 2010 9:41 PM, "Bryan O'Neal" <
bryan.on...@theonealandassociates.com> wrote:

Did you not even read you cited references? It is more like if I
called your mama fat beat you up and then drove off down the street in
your car after tossing you a few bucks and a pick of your naked sister
out the window onto your limp body and then when the cops showed up
made you say thank you and apologize for wasting my time ;)

Not that I am complaining. I think it was a bold move that paid off
very, very, well. But denying the nature of the conflict is like
saying the Civil War was fought over slavery. It is fine for your Jr.
High text book but when grow, otherwise intelligent, people try
spouting that stuff they are either American idiots or just don't
care.

To quote from the wikipidia page you cited.

"The Mexican–American War was an armed conflict between the United
States and Mexico from 1846 to 1848 in the wake of the 1845 U.S.
annexation of Texas, which Mexico considered part of its territory
despite the 1836 Texas Revolution.

In addition to a naval blockade of the Mexican coast, American forces
invaded and conquered New Mexico, California and parts of northern
Mexico. Another American army captured Mexico City, forcing Mexico to
agree to the sale of its northern territories to the U.S."


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:47 PM, JD Austin  wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at...

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Re: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group

[Tim Noeding]

I'm linux only at home, but at work that's not the case. I am also always
willing to learn, so if you kick this off please throw me an invite.

from my DROID

On May 17, 2010 9:23 PM, "mike Enriquez"  wrote:

Sign me I'll join your new group.
Mike










On 05/17/2010 08:20 AM, Jared Shapiro wrote:
>
> Sign me up for the MAUG !  js
>
> -Ori...
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Linux dual boot?

[mike Enriquez]

I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer 
with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro.
I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only 
requirement is that it further my linux education.

I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version.

Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use 
an i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to 
be DDR3 1600 MHz.


I am open to any ideas.  Please send me your ideas.

Thanks

Mike Enriquez
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[David]

Why?  Serious inquiry.   From my brief reading, they don't do anything many 
other political groups do.

David

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
--Darth Vader



On May 17, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:

> 
> 
>David,
> 
>  Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and MEChA 
> right now?
> 
>-jmz
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David  wrote:
> Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican.
> 
> Yes, a personal attack.  Just as the comment I'm referring to is.
> 
> David
> "I find your lack of faith disturbing."
> --Darth Vader
> 
> 
> 
> On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> 
> >
> >   Tuna,
> >
> > We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux 
> > developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux.  Just because 
> > some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we 
> > terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject.  Of course some 
> > people don't like it being discussed.  Those are the people who want to 
> > prevent action from being taken.  There are some of these people on this 
> > thread.  How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is 
> > right in front of our faces every day*!?
> >
> > The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo.  It's not a 
> > laughing matter.  Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that 
> > these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american.  Our 
> > state is broke, as are many other states.  Our ability to maintain our 
> > technology sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves 
> > politically.  This means *your job*.  It might even be an opportunity to 
> > position ourselves profitably relative to California.  Discussion is 
> > absolutely critical to moving in the right direction.  Don't let people 
> > blow the issue out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial 
> > battleground.
> >
> > That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or 
> > whatever other stuff is 'on topic'.
> >
> >   -jmz
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna  wrote:
> > /|  ___
> >/ |   __-- --__  |\
> >|  \_----_  /  |
> >|)\/   |
> > \__/ /
> > ) ,-`
> > /  0   ..   0 |
> >/ /|   | ,
> >\   ,__  / |   \/ |
> > \ ```)
> >  \__/
> >ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL
> >
> > I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public 
> > domain.
> >
> > Congrats, Zeidner.
> >
> > Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010:
> > > Hello PLUG,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the 
> > > recent
> > > Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo
> > > te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
> > >
> > >  > > ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
> > >  Hopefully
> > > they will choose Linux.
> > >
> > >
> > > -jmz
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> 
> -- 
> 
> ---
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> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

   David,

 Will you condemn and denounce the political groups La Raza and MEChA
right now?

   -jmz





On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:42 PM, David  wrote:

> Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican.
>
> Yes, a personal attack.  Just as the comment I'm referring to is.
>
> David
> "I find your lack of faith disturbing."
> --Darth Vader
>
>
>
> On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>
> >
> >   Tuna,
> >
> > We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux
> developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux.  Just because
> some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we
> terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject.  Of course some
> people don't like it being discussed.  Those are the people who want to
> prevent action from being taken.  There are some of these people on this
> thread.  How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is
> right in front of our faces every day*!?
> >
> > The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo.  It's not a
> laughing matter.  Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that
> these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american.  Our state
> is broke, as are many other states.  Our ability to maintain our technology
> sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically.
>  This means *your job*.  It might even be an opportunity to position
> ourselves profitably relative to California.  Discussion is absolutely
> critical to moving in the right direction.  Don't let people blow the issue
> out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground.
> >
> > That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service
> or whatever other stuff is 'on topic'.
> >
> >   -jmz
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna  wrote:
> > /|  ___
> >/ |   __-- --__  |\
> >|  \_----_  /  |
> >|)\/   |
> > \__/ /
> > ) ,-`
> > /  0   ..   0 |
> >/ /|   | ,
> >\   ,__  / |   \/ |
> > \ ```)
> >  \__/
> >ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL
> >
> > I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public
> domain.
> >
> > Congrats, Zeidner.
> >
> > Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010:
> > > Hello PLUG,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the
> recent
> > > Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo
> > > te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
> > >
> > > <
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v
> > > ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
> > >  Hopefully
> > > they will choose Linux.
> > >
> > >
> > > -jmz
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
>
> --
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

  To the rest,


you're trying to tell me a few emails in your inbox is so absolutely
painful you're going to throw a fit or something?

no, you just don't like what is being said...  but guess what- this
issue is now front and center and as far as I'm concerned there is no
controversy here if you are an concerned Arizonan.


  -jmz


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:

>
>   Tuna,
>
> We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux
> developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux.  Just because
> some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we
> terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject.  Of course some
> people don't like it being discussed.  Those are the people who want to
> prevent action from being taken.  There are some of these people on this
> thread.  How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is
> right in front of our faces every day*!?
>
> The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo.  It's not a
> laughing matter.  Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that
> these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american.  Our state
> is broke, as are many other states.  Our ability to maintain our technology
> sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically.
>  This means *your job*.  It might even be an opportunity to position
> ourselves profitably relative to California.  Discussion is absolutely
> critical to moving in the right direction.  Don't let people blow the issue
> out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground.
>
> That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or
> whatever other stuff is 'on topic'.
>
>   -jmz
>
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna  wrote:
>
>> /|  ___
>>/ |   __-- --__  |\
>>|  \_----_  /  |
>>|)\/   |
>> \__/ /
>> ) ,-`
>> /  0   ..   0 |
>>/ /|   | ,
>>\   ,__  / |   \/ |
>> \ ```)
>>  \__/
>>ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL
>>
>>
>> I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public
>> domain.
>>
>> Congrats, Zeidner.
>>
>> Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010:
>> > Hello PLUG,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >   I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the
>> recent
>> > Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo
>> > te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
>> >
>> > <
>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v
>> > ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
>> >  Hopefully
>> > they will choose Linux.
>> >
>> >
>> > -jmz
>> >
>>
>> --
>
>


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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[David]

Josh, I don't know you from Adam, but FU for calling me unAmerican.   

Yes, a personal attack.  Just as the comment I'm referring to is.

David
"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
--Darth Vader



On May 17, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:

> 
>   Tuna,
> 
> We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux developers 
> as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux.  Just because some deem 
> the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we terminate 
> the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject.  Of course some people 
> don't like it being discussed.  Those are the people who want to prevent 
> action from being taken.  There are some of these people on this thread.  How 
> can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is right in front 
> of our faces every day*!?
> 
> The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo.  It's not a 
> laughing matter.  Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that 
> these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american.  Our state 
> is broke, as are many other states.  Our ability to maintain our technology 
> sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically.  
> This means *your job*.  It might even be an opportunity to position ourselves 
> profitably relative to California.  Discussion is absolutely critical to 
> moving in the right direction.  Don't let people blow the issue out of 
> proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground.
> 
> That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or 
> whatever other stuff is 'on topic'.
> 
>   -jmz
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna  wrote:
> /|  ___
>/ |   __-- --__  |\
>|  \_----_  /  |
>|)\/   |
> \__/ /
> ) ,-`
> /  0   ..   0 |
>/ /|   | ,
>\   ,__  / |   \/ |
> \ ```)
>  \__/
>ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL
> 
> I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain.
> 
> Congrats, Zeidner.
> 
> Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010:
> > Hello PLUG,
> >
> >
> >
> >   I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent
> > Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
> >
> >
> > http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo
> > te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
> >
> >  > ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
> >  Hopefully
> > they will choose Linux.
> >
> >
> > -jmz
> >
> 
> -- 
> 
> ---
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> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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Re: OT ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Bryan O'Neal]

Did you not even read you cited references? It is more like if I
called your mama fat beat you up and then drove off down the street in
your car after tossing you a few bucks and a pick of your naked sister
out the window onto your limp body and then when the cops showed up
made you say thank you and apologize for wasting my time ;)

Not that I am complaining. I think it was a bold move that paid off
very, very, well. But denying the nature of the conflict is like
saying the Civil War was fought over slavery. It is fine for your Jr.
High text book but when grow, otherwise intelligent, people try
spouting that stuff they are either American idiots or just don't
care.

To quote from the wikipidia page you cited.

"The Mexican–American War was an armed conflict between the United
States and Mexico from 1846 to 1848 in the wake of the 1845 U.S.
annexation of Texas, which Mexico considered part of its territory
despite the 1836 Texas Revolution.

In addition to a naval blockade of the Mexican coast, American forces
invaded and conquered New Mexico, California and parts of northern
Mexico. Another American army captured Mexico City, forcing Mexico to
agree to the sale of its northern territories to the U.S."

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:47 PM, JD Austin  wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 20:12, Bryan O'Neal
>  wrote:
>>
>> Well... we did steal it from Mexico. In a style that is reminiscent of the
>> Romans but is still distinctly American. In truth it is an awesome tail of
>> we want it, we can make claim for it, we can take it, and we are so cool the
>> rest of the world will demand you apologize to us for making us take it from
>> you. We are some bad as* mot** f :)
>> But that is just my humble opinion ;)
>>
> That's like saying that I stole your car when I drove away with it after
> paying you $5k ;)
> Mexico was conquered by Spain which annexed what we call California and
> other areas.  Later Mexico ceded California and New Mexico in the Mexican
> American war for the agreed upon price of $15M.   Other parts of southern
> America were purchased in the Gadsden Purchase and Louisiana Purchase.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_Purchase
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viceroyalty_of_New_Spain
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican-American_War
>
> Great map here:
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/United_States_1803-04-1804-03.png
>
>
> JD
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

  Tuna,

We were discussing macro economic trends that effect all linux
developers as well as issues pertaining to Arizona and Linux.  Just because
some deem the issue of illegal aliens to be out of bounds does not mean we
terminate the discussion whenever we arrive at the subject.  Of course some
people don't like it being discussed.  Those are the people who want to
prevent action from being taken.  There are some of these people on this
thread.  How can we discuss anything these days without addressing *what is
right in front of our faces every day*!?

The fact is everyone, this country is in deep doo doo.  It's not a
laughing matter.  Anyone who was at the Sharpton rally will tell you that
these people are violent and they most certainly are un-american.  Our state
is broke, as are many other states.  Our ability to maintain our technology
sector will rely heavily on our ability to stabilize ourselves politically.
 This means *your job*.  It might even be an opportunity to position
ourselves profitably relative to California.  Discussion is absolutely
critical to moving in the right direction.  Don't let people blow the issue
out of proportion or try to turn it into some racial battleground.

That being said, you may now return to complaining about COX service or
whatever other stuff is 'on topic'.

  -jmz


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tuna  wrote:

> /|  ___
>/ |   __-- --__  |\
>|  \_----_  /  |
>|)\/   |
> \__/ /
> ) ,-`
> /  0   ..   0 |
>/ /|   | ,
>\   ,__  / |   \/ |
> \ ```)
>  \__/
>ILLEGAL ALIEN IS ILLEGAL
>
> I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public
> domain.
>
> Congrats, Zeidner.
>
> Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010:
> > Hello PLUG,
> >
> >
> >
> >   I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the
> recent
> > Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo
> > te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
> >
> > <
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-v
> > ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
> >  Hopefully
> > they will choose Linux.
> >
> >
> > -jmz
> >
>
> --
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Trent Shipley]

On 05/17/2010 07:57 PM, Russell Deneault wrote:
> I joined this list recently to see about participating more with PLUG.
> Is this really what a Linux-oriented mailing list is about? My mailbox
> as never been so full of crap. 
>
> What's the usual ratio of rabid howling to actual technical discussion?

The list will be solidly technical for two or three weeks at a time. 
Then a hot political topic comes along that generates a huge amount of
off topic traffic.  On rare occasions threads refuse to die so list
admins have had to kill them.


> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Craig White  > wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 19:12 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:08 PM,  > wrote:
> >
> > > http://huertanix.tumblr.com wrote:
> >
> > > Ubsubscried,
> >
> > What does Ubsubscried mean?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   It means: I'm going to throw a hissy fit if anyone calls illegal
> > aliens what they are.
> 
> it means that there are some who cannot exert self control and abuse
> this list to push their political views.
>
> I'm somewhat close to unsubscribing at this point.
>
> Craig
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
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> 
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>
>
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Re: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group

[mike Enriquez]

Sign me I'll join your new group.
Mike








On 05/17/2010 08:20 AM, Jared Shapiro wrote:

Sign me up for the MAUG !  js

-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us 
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Bryan O'Neal
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 1:30 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: OT: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group

As stated in a recent thread there seems to be a substantial lack of
decent windows admin groups.  Particularly ones with the culture we
enjoy here. The solution - start one. I know a dozen or so people here
who are forced to admin windows boxes and would like a collective
support group like what we have for plug. The next questions is do we
have
1) Support - I am not founding another insta-dead group. The world has
too many already
2) Name - How does MAUG sound - Microsoft Admin Users Group. The Maug
are a group of islands in southeast asia near Japan.

If I get more then 10 responses I will have the mailing list and a
elchepo web page up tonight. After which I will start garnering
support from the windows community so we can get a few hundred active
members into the fold as quickly as possible

Let me know
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Re: OT ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[JD Austin]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 20:12, Bryan O'Neal <
bryan.on...@theonealandassociates.com> wrote:

> Well... we did steal it from Mexico. In a style that is reminiscent of the
> Romans but is still distinctly American. In truth it is an awesome tail of
> we want it, we can make claim for it, we can take it, and we are so cool the
> rest of the world will demand you apologize to us for making us take it from
> you. We are some bad as* mot** f :)
> But that is just my humble opinion ;)
>
> That's like saying that I stole your car when I drove away with it after
paying you $5k ;)
Mexico was conquered by Spain which annexed what we call California and
other areas.  Later Mexico ceded California and New Mexico in the Mexican
American war for the agreed upon price of $15M.   Other parts of southern
America were purchased in the Gadsden Purchase and Louisiana Purchase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_Purchase
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viceroyalty_of_New_Spain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican-American_War

Great map here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/United_States_1803-04-1804-03.png


JD
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Tuna]

 /|  ___
/ |   __-- --__  |\
|  \_----_  /  |
|)\/   |
 \__/ /
 ) ,-`
 /  0   ..   0 | 
/ /|   | ,
\   ,__  / |   \/ |
 \ ```)
  \__/
SUCCESSFUL TROLL IS SUCCESSFUL

I created this ascii art myself, and hereby release it into the public domain.

Congrats, Zeidner.   

Excerpts from Joshua Zeidner's message of Sun May 16 12:54:33 -0700 2010:
> Hello PLUG,
> 
> 
> 
>   I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the recent
> Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
> 
> 
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vo
> te-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
> 
>  ote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
>  Hopefully
> they will choose Linux.
> 
> 
> -jmz
> 
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Re: OT ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Bryan O'Neal]

Well... we did steal it from Mexico. In a style that is reminiscent of the
Romans but is still distinctly American. In truth it is an awesome tail of
we want it, we can make claim for it, we can take it, and we are so cool the
rest of the world will demand you apologize to us for making us take it from
you. We are some bad as* mot** f :)
But that is just my humble opinion ;)

As for the rest of your rant - I agree with nearly everything you say, but
feel I need to state stuff any way
1) Strong boarder is good, but much like the war on drugs you can never have
a "tight enough" boarder when their is massive economic incentive. Or just
strong desire. Look at East Germany
2) This means we need a multi prong approach that opens up the boarder to
documented and permitted immigrant workers. The joy of this is if you are
not working you stay home. But since we allow so many of the workers in the
flow of people trying to break in (or just smuggle goods) become much more
manageable. It also means those people who are net drains on our services
are (by broad demographic) not flooding in. We also get to cut way down on
tax fraud from there employment
3) Do not give then rites! They are here on a work visa (rite now not even
that) not US citizens!!!  But then again I am not entirely in favor of
automatically granting anyone citizen ship. Not even third generation
American White Europeans. But again. that is just me.


If I have offended everyone I know it is a good plan ;)




On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 6:56 PM, keith smith  wrote:

> The Tucson Unified School District is teaching La Raza classes and they
> teach this is AZLAN and this part of the US was stolen from Mexico.  If you
> do not believe me Google both.
>
> I saw this type of festering mess in Cochise County in 1981 and 1982 when a
> group of radicals moved into Miracle Valley.  The Sheriff did little and the
> problem escalated.   The group detonated a bomb by accident while on the way
> to blow up a substation.  By that time it was too late.  The Sheriff could
> not get things under control and about 6 months later it ended with a
> shootout.  The group then moved back to Chicago.
>
> This is exactly what is going on here.  The government has led the illegal
> to believe they will be getting amnesty and that they have rights.  We have
> gone as far as to tell them it is our fault they must work under the table
> or steal someone's ID to work.  We tell them it our fault that we lure them
> with jobs and a non existent border.
>
> Now we have a problem.  We have defiant people who are blaming us for their
> illegal activity.  They are saying they would not have to break the law if
> we would just give them a social security number.  They say "We are here so
> why make them go home".  The Mexican TV has been telling them the economy
> would crash if it were not for them.
>
> If we do not take care of this problem soon we will have a race war.  Just
> wait until September 3.
>
> By the way Mexico prints pamphlets on how to get to the US and gives them
> to their people.  Why?  Because Mexico makes nothing of value.  Mexico's
> economy is dependent on the money the illegal sent back to Mexico.  The
> largest part of their economy comes from tourism and then the remittance
> sent by the illegal.
>
> In a nutshell we subsidize (we are their economy) Mexico by giving section
> 8 housing and food stamps to the illegals and then they send some of the
> money they make illegally back to Mexico.
>
> The Mexican president has the audacity to say "Where there is a Mexican the
> is Mexico".  The prior Mexican President threatened to sue a rancher in
> Douglas, AZ who had a ranch on the border and was rounding up Illegals that
> were trespassing on his land.   That same rancher was sued by those illegals
> for violating their civil rights and the illegals won.  So much for being
> American.  The liberal courts sided with those destroying his land.
>
> Do I sound a little irritated? I am.  I grew up on the border and have
> watched this problem for years.  I watched the first amnesty and know first
> hand want a failure it is.
>
> I've been in the trenches and I have seen the truth.
>
> It is time to solve this problem by exporting all the illegals and their
> children back to Mexico.
>
> Now this might seem a little radical and maybe it is.  I think we should
> withdraw our troops from Afghanistan and Iraq and put them on our Southern
> boarder and give Mexico 30 days to clean up their mess and begin creating an
> economy for those being repatriated.  If they miss the 30 day deadline then
> we use force to flush out the drug cartels, try them, and take the
> appropriate action. Also we need to investigate the wealthy ruling class as
> well.  Then take over the banking system and start building a government and
> industry that will be self deficient.  And maybe we should put some pavement
> on some of those dirt roads.
>
> 
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On

Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[JD Austin]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 19:57, Russell Deneault
wrote:

> I joined this list recently to see about participating more with PLUG. Is
> this really what a Linux-oriented mailing list is about? My mailbox as never
> been so full of crap.
>
> What's the usual ratio of rabid howling to actual technical discussion?
>

You are correct ... the discussion has nothing really to do with Linux.
I thought the discussion was interesting and this is an issue that effects
everyone.
I'm not offended by your opinion (you're entitled to it); even if I don't
agree with everything people say It's trivial to press DELETE.  Though if
this did become a list that didn't allow people to speak freely I'd just
unsubscribe (no threats first).

JD
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Russell Deneault]

I joined this list recently to see about participating more with PLUG. Is
this really what a Linux-oriented mailing list is about? My mailbox as never
been so full of crap.

What's the usual ratio of rabid howling to actual technical discussion?

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Craig White  wrote:

> On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 19:12 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:08 PM,  wrote:
> >
> > > http://huertanix.tumblr.com wrote:
> >
> > > Ubsubscried,
> >
> > What does Ubsubscried mean?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   It means: I'm going to throw a hissy fit if anyone calls illegal
> > aliens what they are.
> 
> it means that there are some who cannot exert self control and abuse
> this list to push their political views.
>
> I'm somewhat close to unsubscribing at this point.
>
> Craig
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
> ---
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

For what it is worth we value you on the list Craig, David, anyone else who is 
ready to leave.  I have plans for a website and I'll send a link.  I cannot say 
that I will not from time to time join in on the political bantering though.

I think this thread might be dead.  



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Craig White  wrote:

From: Craig White 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 7:46 PM

On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 19:12 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:08 PM,  wrote:
>         
>         > http://huertanix.tumblr.com wrote:
>         
>         > Ubsubscried,
>         
>         What does Ubsubscried mean?
>         
>         
>         
> 
> 
>   It means: I'm going to throw a hissy fit if anyone calls illegal
> aliens what they are.

it means that there are some who cannot exert self control and abuse
this list to push their political views.

I'm somewhat close to unsubscribing at this point.

Craig


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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Craig White]

On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 19:12 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:08 PM,  wrote:
> 
> > http://huertanix.tumblr.com wrote:
> 
> > Ubsubscried,
> 
> What does Ubsubscried mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   It means: I'm going to throw a hissy fit if anyone calls illegal
> aliens what they are.

it means that there are some who cannot exert self control and abuse
this list to push their political views.

I'm somewhat close to unsubscribing at this point.

Craig


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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:08 PM,  wrote:

>
> > http://huertanix.tumblr.com wrote:
>
> > Ubsubscried,
>
> What does Ubsubscried mean?
>
>
  It means: I'm going to throw a hissy fit if anyone calls illegal aliens
what they are.

  -jmz
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[joe]

> http://huertanix.tumblr.com wrote:

> Ubsubscried,

What does Ubsubscried mean?



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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[David]

On May 17, 2010, at 5:32 PM, j...@actionline.com wrote:

> 
> This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have
> ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is "Off Topic."
> 
> http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the
> nine years I've lived in Arizona.  I hope everyone on this list will
> forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign
> this petition.
> 
> http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15
> 
> 
> 

Awesome! Ill be going... In protest :)

David

"I find your lack of faith disturbing"
--Darth Vader

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Re: OT ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

The Tucson Unified School District is teaching La Raza classes and they teach 
this is AZLAN and this part of the US was stolen from Mexico.  If you do not 
believe me Google both.

I saw this type of festering mess in Cochise County in 1981 and 1982 when a 
group of radicals moved into Miracle Valley.  The Sheriff did little and the 
problem escalated.   The group detonated a bomb by accident while on the way to 
blow up a substation.  By that time it was too late.  The Sheriff could not get 
things under control and about 6 months later it ended with a shootout.  The 
group then moved back to Chicago.

This is exactly what is going on here.  The government has led the illegal to 
believe they will be getting amnesty and that they have rights.  We have gone 
as far as to tell them it is our fault they must work under the table or steal 
someone's ID to work.  We tell them it our fault that we lure them with jobs 
and a non existent border.  

Now we have a problem.  We have defiant people who are blaming us for their 
illegal activity.  They are saying they would not have to break the law if we 
would just give them a social security number.  They say "We are here so why 
make them go home".  The Mexican TV has been telling them the economy would 
crash if it were not for them.

If we do not take care of this problem soon we will have a race war.  Just wait 
until September 3.

By the way Mexico prints pamphlets on how to get to the US and gives them to 
their people.  Why?  Because Mexico makes nothing of value.  Mexico's economy 
is dependent on the money the illegal sent back to Mexico.  The largest part of 
their economy comes from tourism and then the remittance sent by the illegal.

In a nutshell we subsidize (we are their economy) Mexico by giving section 8 
housing and food stamps to the illegals and then they send some of the money 
they make illegally back to Mexico.

The Mexican president has the audacity to say "Where there is a Mexican the is 
Mexico".  The prior Mexican President threatened to sue a rancher in Douglas, 
AZ who had a ranch on the border and was rounding up Illegals that were 
trespassing on his land.   That same rancher was sued by those illegals for 
violating their civil rights and the illegals won.  So much for being 
American.  The liberal courts sided with those destroying his land.

Do I sound a little irritated? I am.  I grew up on the border and have watched 
this problem for years.  I watched the first amnesty and know first hand want a 
failure it is.  

I've been in the trenches and I have seen the truth.

It is time to solve this problem by exporting all the illegals and their 
children back to Mexico.

Now this might seem a little radical and maybe it is.  I think we should 
withdraw our troops from Afghanistan and Iraq and put them on our Southern 
boarder and give Mexico 30 days to clean up their mess and begin creating an 
economy for those being repatriated.  If they miss the 30 day deadline then we 
use force to flush out the drug cartels, try them, and take the appropriate 
action. Also we need to investigate the wealthy ruling class as well.  Then 
take over the banking system and start building a government and industry that 
will be self deficient.  And maybe we should put some pavement on some of those 
dirt roads.  



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:

From: Joshua Zeidner 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 6:12 PM


  and at least half of the people at the Sharpton rally were 
professional protesters and organizers who certainly were not from here.  They 
told me that Arizona is really part of Mexico and I am standing on their land.  
I kid you not, they not only believe this, but they actually preach this 
philosophy.  Regarding 10 more states, yes they will try to stop similar 
legislation and try to turn the entire country into California.  Do you want 
your state to be broke and telling the federal government you will have riots 
if you don't get a loan?  this stuff is serious business.  If we have a bad 
situation here you can be sure that your property value will plummet.

  -jmz

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 6:03 PM, keith smith  wrote:

And they reported there were 4000 people there.  I was there and I think it was 
500 - 1000 people in protest of HB1070 the night Al Sharpton came to Phoenix.  
If we truly get 10,000 people on the 5th that will be history.  History is 
being made in your backyard.  We are one of the most conservative states in the 
US and we have taken a stand.  There will be 10 or more states by this time 
next year.


Bring your camcorder and record history.  Put your video onto YouTube.com.   



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:


From: Joshua Zeidner 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 

Date: Monday, Ma

Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

  David,  I met Andrea Garcia at the rally, she seemed very concerned about
my privacy rights.  She assured me that shes a conservative, but shes 'new
to the political scene'.  What a great time to start your conservative
activism and working hard to protect the privacy of the people who are
attacking police officers.  Thanks for your patriotism, David.

  -jmz


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 6:11 PM, David Huerta  wrote:

> Spouting broken logic is something I can tolerate, but putting words
> in my mouth is something that I won't.  As a libertarian, I don't like
> mob mentalities in general is something I am very much against,
> especially when it leads to violence.  I said specifically that I was
> against laws that are detrimental to federalism and fundamental rights
> to privacy.  Source:
>
> http://huertanix.tumblr.com/post/552777872/this-seriously-went-on-for-like-two-days
>
> Some of us have more important things to do than play internet
> superman, so if you want the PLUG mailing list to be your playground,
> then by all means, take it.  Print this email out and stick it on your
> fridge with a gold star and glow proudly at what you've accomplished
> on a linux mailing list.  The rest of the world has shit to do.
>
> Ubsubscried,
>
> .dh
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >this is coming from someone who stated that he does not find the
> actions
> > of this mob to be objectionable.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEmez3J4nIw&feature=related
> >-jmz
> >
> > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:40 PM,  wrote:
> >>
> >> It should be marked as OT. The thread doesn't really have anything to do
> >> with Linux  anymore.
> >>
> >> Sent from my BlackBerry Slowphone provided by Allfail
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: j...@actionline.com
> >> Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:32:56
> >> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> >> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
> >>
> >>
> >> This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have
> >> ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is "Off Topic."
> >>
> >> http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the
> >> nine years I've lived in Arizona.  I hope everyone on this list will
> >> forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to
> sign
> >> this petition.
> >>
> >> http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---
> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >
>
>
>
> --
> [.dh]
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

  and at least half of the people at the Sharpton rally were
professional protesters and organizers who certainly were not from here.
 They told me that Arizona is really part of Mexico and I am standing on
their land.  I kid you not, they not only believe this, but they actually
preach this philosophy.  Regarding 10 more states, yes they will try to stop
similar legislation and try to turn the entire country into California.  Do
you want your state to be broke and telling the federal government you will
have riots if you don't get a loan?  this stuff is serious business.  If we
have a bad situation here you can be sure that your property value will
plummet.

  -jmz


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 6:03 PM, keith smith  wrote:

> And they reported there were 4000 people there.  I was there and I think it
> was 500 - 1000 people in protest of HB1070 the night Al Sharpton came to
> Phoenix.  If we truly get 10,000 people on the 5th that will be history.
> History is being made in your backyard.  We are one of the most conservative
> states in the US and we have taken a stand.  There will be 10 or more states
> by this time next year.
>
> Bring your camcorder and record history.  Put your video onto YouTube.com.
>
>
> 
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner * wrote:
>
>
> From: Joshua Zeidner 
>
> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
> Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 5:39 PM
>
>
>
>
>  I would urge EVERYONE, even if you're in the outer realms of Arizona
> (probably means even more to you then) to come to this.  I spoke to some
> organizers and they are busing in people from other states.  The whole
> country is coming to this thing.  When is the last time you've even seen
> your state capitol  I was down there the other day when Al Sharpton
> payed us a visit, there were people waving a USSR flag.
>
>   -jmz
>
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:32 PM, 
> http://mc/compose?to=...@actionline.com>
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have
>> ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is "Off Topic."
>>
>> http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the
>> nine years I've lived in Arizona.  I hope everyone on this list will
>> forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign
>> this petition.
>>
>> http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[David Huerta]

Spouting broken logic is something I can tolerate, but putting words
in my mouth is something that I won't.  As a libertarian, I don't like
mob mentalities in general is something I am very much against,
especially when it leads to violence.  I said specifically that I was
against laws that are detrimental to federalism and fundamental rights
to privacy.  Source:
http://huertanix.tumblr.com/post/552777872/this-seriously-went-on-for-like-two-days

Some of us have more important things to do than play internet
superman, so if you want the PLUG mailing list to be your playground,
then by all means, take it.  Print this email out and stick it on your
fridge with a gold star and glow proudly at what you've accomplished
on a linux mailing list.  The rest of the world has shit to do.

Ubsubscried,

.dh

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:
>
>
>    this is coming from someone who stated that he does not find the actions
> of this mob to be objectionable.
>     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEmez3J4nIw&feature=related
>    -jmz
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:40 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> It should be marked as OT. The thread doesn't really have anything to do
>> with Linux  anymore.
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Slowphone provided by Allfail
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: j...@actionline.com
>> Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:32:56
>> To: Main PLUG discussion list
>> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
>>
>>
>> This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have
>> ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is "Off Topic."
>>
>> http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the
>> nine years I've lived in Arizona.  I hope everyone on this list will
>> forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign
>> this petition.
>>
>> http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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Re: [OT] ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

  people living elsewhere don't have a perceptual problem with Arizona.
 Last time I checked over 65% of the country is in total support of us.  You
need to stop watching the idiot box.

  -jmz


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Craig White  wrote:

> On Tue, 2010-05-18 at 00:40 +, huerta...@gmail.com wrote:
> > It should be marked as OT. The thread doesn't really have anything to do
> with Linux  anymore.
> 
> it never did.
>
> It does however illustrate the perceptual problem that people living
> elsewhere have with Arizona.
>
> Craig
>
>
> --
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Re: [OT] ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

Give us more detail.  In your opinion, what is the perceptual problem that 
others have and how does this thread illustrate that perceptual problem?



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Craig White  wrote:

From: Craig White 
Subject: Re: [OT] ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: huerta...@gmail.com, "Main PLUG discussion list" 

Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 5:49 PM

On Tue, 2010-05-18 at 00:40 +, huerta...@gmail.com wrote:
> It should be marked as OT. The thread doesn't really have anything to do with 
> Linux  anymore.

it never did.

It does however illustrate the perceptual problem that people living
elsewhere have with Arizona.

Craig


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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

And they reported there were 4000 people there.  I was there and I think it was 
500 - 1000 people in protest of HB1070 the night Al Sharpton came to Phoenix.  
If we truly get 10,000 people on the 5th that will be history.  History is 
being made in your backyard.  We are one of the most conservative states in the 
US and we have taken a stand.  There will be 10 or more states by this time 
next year.

Bring your camcorder and record history.  Put your video onto YouTube.com.   



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:

From: Joshua Zeidner 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 5:39 PM



 I would urge EVERYONE, even if you're in the outer realms of Arizona (probably 
means even more to you then) to come to this.  I spoke to some organizers and 
they are busing in people from other states.  The whole country is coming to 
this thing.  When is the last time you've even seen your state capitol  I 
was down there the other day when Al Sharpton payed us a visit, there were 
people waving a USSR flag.

  -jmz

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:32 PM,   wrote:



This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have

ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is "Off Topic."



http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the

nine years I've lived in Arizona.  I hope everyone on this list will

forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign

this petition.



http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15







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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

Yes sign the petition.  However Washington is not listening.  I have to drive 
45 minutes to get to the capital and I will be at the rally.  If you care be 
there!  



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, j...@actionline.com  wrote:

From: j...@actionline.com 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 5:32 PM


This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have
ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is "Off Topic."

http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the
nine years I've lived in Arizona.  I hope everyone on this list will
forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign
this petition.

http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15



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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

   this is coming from someone who stated that he does not find the actions
of this mob to be objectionable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEmez3J4nIw&feature=related

   -jmz


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:40 PM,  wrote:

> It should be marked as OT. The thread doesn't really have anything to do
> with Linux  anymore.
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry Slowphone provided by Allfail
>
> -Original Message-
> From: j...@actionline.com
> Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:32:56
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
>
>
> This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have
> ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is "Off Topic."
>
> http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the
> nine years I've lived in Arizona.  I hope everyone on this list will
> forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign
> this petition.
>
> http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OT] ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Craig White]

On Tue, 2010-05-18 at 00:40 +, huerta...@gmail.com wrote:
> It should be marked as OT. The thread doesn't really have anything to do with 
> Linux  anymore.

it never did.

It does however illustrate the perceptual problem that people living
elsewhere have with Arizona.

Craig


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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[huertanix]

It should be marked as OT. The thread doesn't really have anything to do with 
Linux  anymore.

Sent from my BlackBerry Slowphone provided by Allfail

-Original Message-
From: j...@actionline.com
Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:32:56 
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?


This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have
ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is "Off Topic."

http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the
nine years I've lived in Arizona.  I hope everyone on this list will
forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign
this petition.

http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15



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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

 I would urge EVERYONE, even if you're in the outer realms of Arizona
(probably means even more to you then) to come to this.  I spoke to some
organizers and they are busing in people from other states.  The whole
country is coming to this thing.  When is the last time you've even seen
your state capitol  I was down there the other day when Al Sharpton
payed us a visit, there were people waving a USSR flag.

  -jmz


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:32 PM,  wrote:

>
> This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have
> ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is "Off Topic."
>
> http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the
> nine years I've lived in Arizona.  I hope everyone on this list will
> forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign
> this petition.
>
> http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15
>
>
>
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[joe]

This is the best topic (the content, not the subject line) that I have
ever seen on PLUG ... even if it is "Off Topic."

http://www.phoenixrally.com/ is the best thing I've seen happen in the
nine years I've lived in Arizona.  I hope everyone on this list will
forward this web address to everybody they know and urge everyone to sign
this petition.

http://www.numbersusa.com/petition?ID=15



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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:26 PM, keith smith  wrote:

> I would not say Sheriff Joe is a clown.  He is dealing with an area that
> has been reported to the the kidnap capital of the world.  Most of those
> being kidnapped are illegals.  Some are tortured and murdered.  Our Sheriff
> has a touch job.  If more commanders of law departments were like him we
> might have a better handle on things.  If you don't want anything to do with
> Joe then don't break the law.  I don't see how he is taking advantage, he is
> doing what the people want.
>
> Now Phil Gordan is another story.
>


  Gordan is done.  He knows that.  The issue is we have to make sure they
don't put another idiot in his place.  Don't know how many of you live in
the city of Phoenix, but things are about to get interesting to say the
least.  There is a very good chance that we will get something other than a
corporate shill this time.

   -jmz



>
> I would agree with your assessment with big business buying the media and
> the politicians.Solution: make our politicians accountable.
>
> The Tucson City Council wanted to play hard ball with the citizens by
> cutting a large number of officers and fire fighters.  They changed their
> mind after a recall petition was filed.  We just have to be diligent and
> stay diligent.
>
>
> 
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Craig White * wrote:
>
>
> From: Craig White 
>
> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
> Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 5:04 PM
>
>
> On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 16:24 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> >   I think thats why they made the media $h!tstorm.  It poses a huge
> > threat to them, because the fact is, removing illegals is going to be
> > highly beneficial to our local economy.  It's much better to be
> > employing tax paying American citizens.  Add to that the related
> > problems of crime, drugs, etc. its a clear win for Arizona.  They
> > don't want a domino effect happening.  It's utterly ridiculous to be
> > paying out so much in unemployment while also paying social service
> > subsidies to non-Americans who work the jobs the unemployed would
> > have.  Gov. Arnold's solution to the problem: cut all welfare.  If I
> > were a non-billionaire legal Californian, I would be utterly furious.
> >  California is quickly degrading, hopefully if we keep doing what
> > we've been doing for the past month or so, we'll be ok.  Actually,
> > we'll be a very desirable place to live (this means your house is
> > worth more).
> 
> I guess I don't understand what any of this has to do with Linux and why
> it's being discussed except to provide a barometer of people's ability
> to analyze what has been happening and of course their political views.
> I would prefer that this entire thread just die.
>
> FTR - there's been a war on drugs for 40+ years and it hasn't stopped
> it. In fact, it's much worse today than ever.
>
> A huge number of these so called 'illegals' have left the country, there
> is no work. Check out all of the 'For Rent' apartments in traditionally
> Mexican areas - they can't give them away.
>
> The problem Arizona has is mostly a perceptual problem because of clowns
> like Sheriff Joe, Andy Thomas and others who use their power poorly and
> thus the rest of the country is over-reacting to Arizona's over reaction
> but the perceptual problem is that the police in Arizona will use this
> new law to justify profiling and anyone who understands things like DWB
> understands the problems with profiling.
>
> It's not just California and Arizona that are disintegrating - it's the
> entire country because big business has seized control and the money
> they can toss around to manipulate politicians, media, laws, etc. have
> made a complete mess of everything.
>
> The truth is that prosperity in America has always been built on the
> backs of cheap labor and chasing people back to Mexico will do little to
> bring prosperity to America.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> --
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

I would not say Sheriff Joe is a clown.  He is dealing with an area that has 
been reported to the the kidnap capital of the world.  Most of those being 
kidnapped are illegals.  Some are tortured and murdered.  Our Sheriff has a 
touch job.  If more commanders of law departments were like him we might have a 
better handle on things.  If you don't want anything to do with Joe then don't 
break the law.  I don't see how he is taking advantage, he is doing what the 
people want.

Now Phil Gordan is another story. 

I would agree with your assessment with big business buying the media and the 
politicians.    Solution: make our politicians accountable.

The Tucson City Council wanted to play hard ball with the citizens by cutting a 
large number of officers and fire fighters.  They changed their mind after a 
recall petition was filed.  We just have to be diligent and stay diligent.
 



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Craig White  wrote:

From: Craig White 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 5:04 PM

On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 16:24 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> 
>   I think thats why they made the media $h!tstorm.  It poses a huge
> threat to them, because the fact is, removing illegals is going to be
> highly beneficial to our local economy.  It's much better to be
> employing tax paying American citizens.  Add to that the related
> problems of crime, drugs, etc. its a clear win for Arizona.  They
> don't want a domino effect happening.  It's utterly ridiculous to be
> paying out so much in unemployment while also paying social service
> subsidies to non-Americans who work the jobs the unemployed would
> have.  Gov. Arnold's solution to the problem: cut all welfare.  If I
> were a non-billionaire legal Californian, I would be utterly furious.
>  California is quickly degrading, hopefully if we keep doing what
> we've been doing for the past month or so, we'll be ok.  Actually,
> we'll be a very desirable place to live (this means your house is
> worth more).

I guess I don't understand what any of this has to do with Linux and why
it's being discussed except to provide a barometer of people's ability
to analyze what has been happening and of course their political views.
I would prefer that this entire thread just die.

FTR - there's been a war on drugs for 40+ years and it hasn't stopped
it. In fact, it's much worse today than ever.

A huge number of these so called 'illegals' have left the country, there
is no work. Check out all of the 'For Rent' apartments in traditionally
Mexican areas - they can't give them away.

The problem Arizona has is mostly a perceptual problem because of clowns
like Sheriff Joe, Andy Thomas and others who use their power poorly and
thus the rest of the country is over-reacting to Arizona's over reaction
but the perceptual problem is that the police in Arizona will use this
new law to justify profiling and anyone who understands things like DWB
understands the problems with profiling.

It's not just California and Arizona that are disintegrating - it's the
entire country because big business has seized control and the money
they can toss around to manipulate politicians, media, laws, etc. have
made a complete mess of everything.

The truth is that prosperity in America has always been built on the
backs of cheap labor and chasing people back to Mexico will do little to
bring prosperity to America.

Craig



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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

Okay, I agree.  I would add volumes of more granular rules.  For starters I 
would remove the special retirement and health care for our congress.  Move 
them to an HMO and 401k.  Add a recall system and a requirement that they meet 
with the people multiple times a year and with the state legislature multiple 
times a year.  Make congress accountable.  Put into effect a balanced budget 
requirement for the federal government within 24 months.  Beef up our military 
and give then hefty pay increases and pay extra pay associated with their 
specialty.   A person in finance, who eats hot chow and spends most of his/her 
time in a nicer place, does not rate as much as the infantry, field artillery, 
tanks, and other in the field in the enemies face type of military occupation.  
I'd like to see some military occupations receive up to 50% of there base pay 
because of the job they have.

On top of this I would reduce the pay rate of most government employees to the 
equal amount paid to non-government employees.

I's also remove many laws on the books.   



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold  wrote:

From: R P Herrold 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:34 PM

On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:

> So what would you do if you were in charge?

Negative agenda don't resonate with voters, so these need to be 'dressed up' as 
positives, but I wont sugar coat it here

Not suggest that protectionism (here, a boycott) is anything but a distorion of 
a market based economy

Remove 'too big to fail' guarantees, explicit and implicit, from the economic 
system, and move to a market based economy

Not lend money on no security into Western Europe and allow the Greece 
socialist experiment reform itself without my intervention

Not 'juice the stock market' to make people reading their 401k statements feel 
'happy' at the expense of eating the heart out of the country's future

Not have liability caps on offshore drilling operations

Call 'bullsh*t' when people who have not read, or are not intellectionally 
honest about SB 1270 call it racist or anti-immigrant

Vote out and work effectively to remove from influnce people in and out of 
public office who hide behind lies

I am not a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination, but much they have 
long proposed simply makes sense standing alone

-- Russ herrold
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Craig White]

On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 16:24 -0700, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> 
>   I think thats why they made the media $h!tstorm.  It poses a huge
> threat to them, because the fact is, removing illegals is going to be
> highly beneficial to our local economy.  It's much better to be
> employing tax paying American citizens.  Add to that the related
> problems of crime, drugs, etc. its a clear win for Arizona.  They
> don't want a domino effect happening.  It's utterly ridiculous to be
> paying out so much in unemployment while also paying social service
> subsidies to non-Americans who work the jobs the unemployed would
> have.  Gov. Arnold's solution to the problem: cut all welfare.  If I
> were a non-billionaire legal Californian, I would be utterly furious.
>  California is quickly degrading, hopefully if we keep doing what
> we've been doing for the past month or so, we'll be ok.  Actually,
> we'll be a very desirable place to live (this means your house is
> worth more).

I guess I don't understand what any of this has to do with Linux and why
it's being discussed except to provide a barometer of people's ability
to analyze what has been happening and of course their political views.
I would prefer that this entire thread just die.

FTR - there's been a war on drugs for 40+ years and it hasn't stopped
it. In fact, it's much worse today than ever.

A huge number of these so called 'illegals' have left the country, there
is no work. Check out all of the 'For Rent' apartments in traditionally
Mexican areas - they can't give them away.

The problem Arizona has is mostly a perceptual problem because of clowns
like Sheriff Joe, Andy Thomas and others who use their power poorly and
thus the rest of the country is over-reacting to Arizona's over reaction
but the perceptual problem is that the police in Arizona will use this
new law to justify profiling and anyone who understands things like DWB
understands the problems with profiling.

It's not just California and Arizona that are disintegrating - it's the
entire country because big business has seized control and the money
they can toss around to manipulate politicians, media, laws, etc. have
made a complete mess of everything.

The truth is that prosperity in America has always been built on the
backs of cheap labor and chasing people back to Mexico will do little to
bring prosperity to America.

Craig



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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

I'm thinking it is.  If I need $30 an hour to live and I am now, through 
reduced taxes, able to make it on $22.50 an hour isn't that deflation?    I 
know that is a far cry from the $5/hr Indian programmer, however all things 
considered maybe that is all it takes.



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:

From: Joshua Zeidner 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:27 PM



  Thats not really deflation... you have to consider purchasing power overseas, 
etc. which is a function of money supply, interest rates, and other factors.  
That's just reducing size of government, which I'm in favor of.  Real deflation 
is simply not possible.  I think we bought a one way ticket to financial 
disaster I'm sad to say.

  -jmz

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:18 PM, keith smith  wrote:

We are definitely in a pickle.  Maybe it is not as pure as just this simple one 
item however if my tax burden was reduced by 25% then I would be able to live 
on 25% less.  Isn't that a deflation?


The national debt is a real problem.  We need to get control of our country and 
where it is going!



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:


From: Joshua Zeidner 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 

Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:13 PM



  you might see some kind of short term deflation, but any substantial 
deflation would break us.  Any time you have debt, then deflation makes that 
debt harder to pay.  Not only would it be tragic for Americans on a personal 
level, but on a state and federal level it would be equally disastrous.  eg. 
What would happen if everyone's salary were halved next week?  Massive default 
on mortgages, housing inventory increases, values go down, etc.  I
 would think that deflation might be beneficial, I just don't think its an 
option (either financially or politically).  Most likely they will just print 
their way out of this, and destroy the dollar in the process.


  -jmz
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:06 PM, keith smith  wrote:



I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation.  We 
need to deflate.





Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:



From: Joshua Zeidner 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 


Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:58 PM



  In a deflation scenario, the dollar would buy a lot of code, but it would 
also bankrupt just about anyone with a mortgage or any other kind of debt.  
Remember deflated dollars are harder to come by.



  -jmz


  -

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, keith smith  wrote:






Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation?  Wouldn't that help?




Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold  wrote:




From: R P Herrold 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 



Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM

On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:

> I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void.  What do you base this
> on?


>> earlier, Joshua Zeidner:
>>   Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should 
>> do it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted 
>> anyway.  They are a California based company but they certainly do most of  
>> their work overseas.  The way things are currently going
 the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. 

This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back

-- Russ herrold



---





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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

I was not taking into consideration our national debt.  If we did not have that 
and we could shrink government by 50% then we could live on 25% less.



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold  wrote:

From: R P Herrold 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:23 PM

On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:

> I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation.  We 
> need to deflate.

If one reduces taxes (I assume here, you mean the net effective Federla ones), 
the federal deficit goes up faster, and the feds need to borrow more to fund 
its payment obligations.  This sucks funds away from the private sector, who 
then need to 'outbid' the feds for business borrowing.

Bidding up rates to but (here, rent the use of money) the use right of same 
asset sounds like price increases with no change in the underlying.

That is asset price inflation

I dont ses the causal link you are suggesting exists to cause a deflation.

-- Russ herrold
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

 BTW, everyone there is going to be a big rally on June 5th ( also another
on the 12th) at the AZ Capitol.

  http://www.phoenixrally.com/

 It is reported that there will be over 10,000
people there.

 -jmz


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:34 PM, R P Herrold  wrote:

> On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:
>
>  So what would you do if you were in charge?
>>
>
> Negative agenda don't resonate with voters, so these need to be 'dressed
> up' as positives, but I wont sugar coat it here
>
> Not suggest that protectionism (here, a boycott) is anything but a
> distorion of a market based economy
>
> Remove 'too big to fail' guarantees, explicit and implicit, from the
> economic system, and move to a market based economy
>
> Not lend money on no security into Western Europe and allow the Greece
> socialist experiment reform itself without my intervention
>
> Not 'juice the stock market' to make people reading their 401k statements
> feel 'happy' at the expense of eating the heart out of the country's future
>
> Not have liability caps on offshore drilling operations
>
> Call 'bullsh*t' when people who have not read, or are not intellectionally
> honest about SB 1270 call it racist or anti-immigrant
>
> Vote out and work effectively to remove from influnce people in and out of
> public office who hide behind lies
>
> I am not a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination, but much they
> have long proposed simply makes sense standing alone
>
>
> -- Russ herrold
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[R P Herrold]

On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:


So what would you do if you were in charge?


Negative agenda don't resonate with voters, so these need to 
be 'dressed up' as positives, but I wont sugar coat it here


Not suggest that protectionism (here, a boycott) is anything 
but a distorion of a market based economy


Remove 'too big to fail' guarantees, explicit and implicit, 
from the economic system, and move to a market based economy


Not lend money on no security into Western Europe and allow 
the Greece socialist experiment reform itself without my 
intervention


Not 'juice the stock market' to make people reading their 401k 
statements feel 'happy' at the expense of eating the heart out 
of the country's future


Not have liability caps on offshore drilling operations

Call 'bullsh*t' when people who have not read, or are not 
intellectionally honest about SB 1270 call it racist or 
anti-immigrant


Vote out and work effectively to remove from influnce people 
in and out of public office who hide behind lies


I am not a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination, but 
much they have long proposed simply makes sense standing alone


-- Russ herrold
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

  Thats not really deflation... you have to consider purchasing power
overseas, etc. which is a function of money supply, interest rates, and
other factors.  That's just reducing size of government, which I'm in favor
of.  Real deflation is simply not possible.  I think we bought a one way
ticket to financial disaster I'm sad to say.

  -jmz


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:18 PM, keith smith  wrote:

> We are definitely in a pickle.  Maybe it is not as pure as just this simple
> one item however if my tax burden was reduced by 25% then I would be able to
> live on 25% less.  Isn't that a deflation?
>
> The national debt is a real problem.  We need to get control of our country
> and where it is going!
>
>
> 
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner * wrote:
>
>
> From: Joshua Zeidner 
> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
> Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:13 PM
>
>
>
>
>   you might see some kind of short term deflation, but any substantial
> deflation would break us.  Any time you have debt, then deflation makes that
> debt harder to pay.  Not only would it be tragic for Americans on a personal
> level, but on a state and federal level it would be equally disastrous.  eg.
> What would happen if everyone's salary were halved next week?  Massive
> default on mortgages, housing inventory increases, values go down, etc.  I
> would think that deflation might be beneficial, I just don't think its an
> option (either financially or politically).  Most likely they will just
> print their way out of this, and destroy the dollar in the process.
>
>   -jmz
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:06 PM, keith smith 
> http://mc/compose?to=klsmith2...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation.
>> We need to deflate.
>>
>> 
>> Keith Smith
>>
>> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner 
>> http://mc/compose?to=jjzeid...@gmail.com>
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Joshua Zeidner 
>> http://mc/compose?to=jjzeid...@gmail.com>
>> >
>>
>> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
>> http://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
>> >
>> Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:58 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   In a deflation scenario, the dollar would buy a lot of code, but it
>> would also bankrupt just about anyone with a mortgage or any other kind of
>> debt.  Remember deflated dollars are harder to come by.
>>
>>   -jmz
>>
>>
>>
>>   -
>>
>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, keith smith 
>> http://mc/compose?to=klsmith2...@yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation?  Wouldn't that help?
>>>
>>> 
>>> Keith Smith
>>>
>>> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold 
>>> http://mc/compose?to=herr...@owlriver.com>
>>> >* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: R P Herrold 
>>> http://mc/compose?to=herr...@owlriver.com>
>>> >
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
>>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
>>> http://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
>>> >
>>> Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:
>>>
>>> > I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void.  What do you base this
>>> > on?
>>>
>>> >> earlier, Joshua Zeidner:
>>> >>   Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we
>>> should do it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and
>>> overpromoted anyway.  They are a California based company but they certainly
>>> do most of  their work overseas.  The way things are currently going the
>>> outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid.
>>>
>>> This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
>>> genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back
>>>
>>> -- Russ herrold
>>> ---
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:16 PM, R P Herrold  wrote:

> On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:
>
>> Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation?  Wouldn't that help?
>>
>
>  herrold, earlier:
>>
>> This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
>> genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back
>>
>
> Deflation relative to what?  Gold? The CHF? The JPY? The EUR? Why should a
> loss in purchasing power of a unit amount of one currency affect
> non-lockstep linked currencies at all? Bretton Woods ended those days
>
> Prediction of the path financial markets will take appear to be a multi
> factor, non-linear problem, with path dependencies.
>
> Anyone saying they _know_ otherwise should be encouraged to play against
> you in a markets simulation where you run a true random strategy.  If they
> can consistently articulate a durable strategy that produces above market
> gains, follow it
>
> What if AZ were the first mover in a economic game where it restricted
> non-documented guest workers and TX and FL followed suit, but NM and CA did
> not.  Where will budget and employment crises continue longer?
>

  I think thats why they made the media $h!tstorm.  It poses a huge threat
to them, because the fact is, removing illegals is going to be highly
beneficial to our local economy.  It's much better to be employing tax
paying American citizens.  Add to that the related problems of crime, drugs,
etc. its a clear win for Arizona.  They don't want a domino effect
happening.  It's utterly ridiculous to be paying out so much in
unemployment while also paying social service subsidies to non-Americans who
work the jobs the unemployed would have.  Gov. Arnold's solution to the
problem: cut all welfare.  If I were a non-billionaire legal Californian, I
would be utterly furious.  California is quickly degrading, hopefully if we
keep doing what we've been doing for the past month or so, we'll be ok.
 Actually, we'll be a very desirable place to live (this means your house is
worth more).

  -jmz




> Opinons are cheap; horse races are held regularly to settle differences of
> opinion as to which of a collection of horses can run the fastest.  One
> problem with the study of economics, and behavioural economics, is that
> there is no 'experimental lab'; and 'repeatable starting conditions'
> repetition of history, to settle arguments like this.
>
>
> -- Russ herrold
> ---
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[R P Herrold]

On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:

I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would 
see deflation.  We need to deflate.


If one reduces taxes (I assume here, you mean the net 
effective Federla ones), the federal deficit goes up faster, 
and the feds need to borrow more to fund its payment 
obligations.  This sucks funds away from the private sector, 
who then need to 'outbid' the feds for business borrowing.


Bidding up rates to but (here, rent the use of money) the use 
right of same asset sounds like price increases with no change 
in the underlying.


That is asset price inflation

I dont ses the causal link you are suggesting exists to cause 
a deflation.


-- Russ herrold
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

So what would you do if you were in charge?



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold  wrote:

From: R P Herrold 
Subject: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:16 PM

On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:
> Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation?  Wouldn't that help?

> herrold, earlier:
> This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
> genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back

Deflation relative to what?  Gold? The CHF? The JPY? The EUR? Why should a loss 
in purchasing power of a unit amount of one currency affect non-lockstep linked 
currencies at all? Bretton Woods ended those days

Prediction of the path financial markets will take appear to be a multi factor, 
non-linear problem, with path dependencies.

Anyone saying they _know_ otherwise should be encouraged to play against you in 
a markets simulation where you run a true random strategy.  If they can 
consistently articulate a durable strategy that produces above market gains, 
follow it

What if AZ were the first mover in a economic game where it restricted 
non-documented guest workers and TX and FL followed suit, but NM and CA did 
not.  Where will budget and employment crises continue longer?

Opinons are cheap; horse races are held regularly to settle differences of 
opinion as to which of a collection of horses can run the fastest.  One problem 
with the study of economics, and behavioural economics, is that there is no 
'experimental lab'; and 'repeatable starting conditions' repetition of history, 
to settle arguments like this.

-- Russ herrold
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

We are definitely in a pickle.  Maybe it is not as pure as just this simple one 
item however if my tax burden was reduced by 25% then I would be able to live 
on 25% less.  Isn't that a deflation?

The national debt is a real problem.  We need to get control of our country and 
where it is going!



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:

From: Joshua Zeidner 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:13 PM



  you might see some kind of short term deflation, but any substantial 
deflation would break us.  Any time you have debt, then deflation makes that 
debt harder to pay.  Not only would it be tragic for Americans on a personal 
level, but on a state and federal level it would be equally disastrous.  eg. 
What would happen if everyone's salary were halved next week?  Massive default 
on mortgages, housing inventory increases, values go down, etc.  I would think 
that deflation might be beneficial, I just don't think its an option (either 
financially or politically).  Most likely they will just print their way out of 
this, and destroy the dollar in the process.

  -jmz
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:06 PM, keith smith  wrote:


I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation.  We 
need to deflate.




Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:


From: Joshua Zeidner 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 

Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:58 PM



  In a deflation scenario, the dollar would buy a lot of code, but it would 
also bankrupt just about anyone with a mortgage or any other kind of debt.  
Remember deflated dollars are harder to come by.


  -jmz


  -

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, keith smith  wrote:




Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation?  Wouldn't that help?




Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold  wrote:



From: R P Herrold 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 


Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM

On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:

> I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void.  What do you base this
> on?


>> earlier, Joshua Zeidner:
>>   Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should 
>> do it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted 
>> anyway.  They are a California based company but they certainly do most of  
>> their work overseas.  The way things are currently going
 the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. 

This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back

-- Russ herrold


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ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[R P Herrold]

On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:

Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation?  Wouldn't that help?



herrold, earlier:
This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back


Deflation relative to what?  Gold? The CHF? The JPY? The EUR? 
Why should a loss in purchasing power of a unit amount of one 
currency affect non-lockstep linked currencies at all? 
Bretton Woods ended those days


Prediction of the path financial markets will take appear to 
be a multi factor, non-linear problem, with path dependencies.


Anyone saying they _know_ otherwise should be encouraged to 
play against you in a markets simulation where you run a 
true random strategy.  If they can consistently articulate a 
durable strategy that produces above market gains, follow it


What if AZ were the first mover in a economic game where it 
restricted non-documented guest workers and TX and FL 
followed suit, but NM and CA did not.  Where will budget 
and employment crises continue longer?


Opinons are cheap; horse races are held regularly to settle 
differences of opinion as to which of a collection of horses 
can run the fastest.  One problem with the study of economics, 
and behavioural economics, is that there is no 'experimental 
lab'; and 'repeatable starting conditions' repetition of 
history, to settle arguments like this.


-- Russ herrold
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

  you might see some kind of short term deflation, but any substantial
deflation would break us.  Any time you have debt, then deflation makes that
debt harder to pay.  Not only would it be tragic for Americans on a personal
level, but on a state and federal level it would be equally disastrous.  eg.
What would happen if everyone's salary were halved next week?  Massive
default on mortgages, housing inventory increases, values go down, etc.  I
would think that deflation might be beneficial, I just don't think its an
option (either financially or politically).  Most likely they will just
print their way out of this, and destroy the dollar in the process.

  -jmz

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:06 PM, keith smith  wrote:

>
> I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation.
> We need to deflate.
>
> 
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner * wrote:
>
>
> From: Joshua Zeidner 
>
> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
> Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:58 PM
>
>
>
>
>   In a deflation scenario, the dollar would buy a lot of code, but it would
> also bankrupt just about anyone with a mortgage or any other kind of debt.
>  Remember deflated dollars are harder to come by.
>
>   -jmz
>
>
>
>   -
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, keith smith 
> http://mc/compose?to=klsmith2...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation?  Wouldn't that help?
>>
>> 
>> Keith Smith
>>
>> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold 
>> http://mc/compose?to=herr...@owlriver.com>
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: R P Herrold 
>> http://mc/compose?to=herr...@owlriver.com>
>> >
>>
>> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
>> http://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
>> >
>> Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:
>>
>> > I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void.  What do you base this
>> > on?
>>
>> >> earlier, Joshua Zeidner:
>> >>   Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we
>> should do it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and
>> overpromoted anyway.  They are a California based company but they certainly
>> do most of  their work overseas.  The way things are currently going the
>> outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid.
>>
>> This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
>> genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back
>>
>> -- Russ herrold
>> ---
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - 
>> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

I think if taxes were reduced by 25% or even 50% we would see deflation.  We 
need to deflate.



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:

From: Joshua Zeidner 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:58 PM



  In a deflation scenario, the dollar would buy a lot of code, but it would 
also bankrupt just about anyone with a mortgage or any other kind of debt.  
Remember deflated dollars are harder to come by.

  -jmz


  -

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, keith smith  wrote:


Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation?  Wouldn't that help?




Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold  wrote:


From: R P Herrold 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 

Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM

On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:

> I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void.  What do you base this
> on?


>> earlier, Joshua Zeidner:
>>   Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should 
>> do it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted 
>> anyway.  They are a California based company but they certainly do most of  
>> their work overseas.  The way things are currently going
 the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid. 

This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back

-- Russ herrold

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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

  In a deflation scenario, the dollar would buy a lot of code, but it would
also bankrupt just about anyone with a mortgage or any other kind of debt.
 Remember deflated dollars are harder to come by.

  -jmz



  -

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:44 PM, keith smith  wrote:

>
> Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation?  Wouldn't that help?
>
> 
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold * wrote:
>
>
> From: R P Herrold 
>
> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
> Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM
>
>
> On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:
>
> > I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void.  What do you base this
> > on?
>
> >> earlier, Joshua Zeidner:
> >>   Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we
> should do it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and
> overpromoted anyway.  They are a California based company but they certainly
> do most of  their work overseas.  The way things are currently going the
> outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid.
>
> This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
> genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back
>
> -- Russ herrold
> ---
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - 
> PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
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>
>
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

  I agree with most of what you say below, but I think here lies the wishful
thinking.  This thing is not sustainable even for a few years more.
 California is *about to default on its debt*... if you think this is the
time to sit back and admire your 401k statement, think again.

  But you're absolutely right, our economy has been gutted.  Time to stop
making excuses and claiming its 'inevitable'.  Eventually the new 'marketing
class' will even be out of work.  No more bubbles to move to, no more
inflated asset classes.  What do you think we will all be doing in the
future?  America has to produce something other than green pieces of paper.

  -jmz



On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:48 PM, JD Austin  wrote:

>
>
>

> Theres an old saying.. you get what you pay for when you go with the lowest
> bidder.
> I've never seen a case where outsourcing saved company money in the long
> term.
> What they save in labor costs they pay for in communication issues and
> missed deadlines.
>
> I've witnessed a huge job slide during my life time.
> We've lost meat packing, textile, hospitality, construction, plumbing,
> electrical, agriculture jobs, and a lot more lower level jobs  when our
> government allowed illegal immigrants to stay here unchecked which pushed
> unskilled Americans out of those jobs.
> We've lost manufacturing jobs when companies move out of the country.
> We've lost high tech jobs when they've been outsourced to companies in
> other countries.
> We've host high tech jobs by in inflow of H1B's that live here (that
> companies say they can't survive without) while our white collar
> unemployment rate climbs.
> Add on top the most expensive education in the world and you're right.. Big
> Problems.
> Eventually many generations from now big business will run out of people to
> exploit and we can be on a level playing field... or robots will be doing
> those jobs.
>
> To answer your question... haven't you seen Wallee??
> We're all going to end up having robots do every conceivable job and lay
> around like gelatin blobs all day until we're unable to even walk :)
>
> Regarding Boycotting..
> Any state, company, or other entity that boycotts Arizona businesses for
> whatever reason  will not receive my business.  That includes weekend trips
> to San Diego, Mexico, etc.
>
> JD
>
>
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[JD Austin]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 15:27, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:01 PM, R P Herrold  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:
>>
>>  I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void.  What do you base this
>>> on?
>>>
>>
>>  earlier, Joshua Zeidner:

   Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we
 should do it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and
 overpromoted anyway.  They are a California based company but they 
 certainly
 do most of  their work overseas.  The way things are currently going the
 outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid.

>>>
>> This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
>> genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back
>>
>
>
>   This is how they want it to be viewed, as if outsourcing is inevitable
> and natural progression.  It's anything but that.  These trade agreements
> and the price differentials that make it possible are very much structured
> by our policy (including military).  We give a lot of direct foreign aid to
> India- why, if they are simultaneously outbidding us in the new
> international job market?  Tell me, as foreign countries assume just about
> every white collar job imaginable, what are we going to be doing exactly?
>
>   I think there is the tendency to buy the story from the main stream
> media.  It might seem comfortable to accept the dominant story for the short
> term, but it suggests many more long term problems.  Big problems.
>
>-jmz
>
>
Theres an old saying.. you get what you pay for when you go with the lowest
bidder.
I've never seen a case where outsourcing saved company money in the long
term.
What they save in labor costs they pay for in communication issues and
missed deadlines.

I've witnessed a huge job slide during my life time.
We've lost meat packing, textile, hospitality, construction, plumbing,
electrical, agriculture jobs, and a lot more lower level jobs  when our
government allowed illegal immigrants to stay here unchecked which pushed
unskilled Americans out of those jobs.
We've lost manufacturing jobs when companies move out of the country.
We've lost high tech jobs when they've been outsourced to companies in other
countries.
We've host high tech jobs by in inflow of H1B's that live here (that
companies say they can't survive without) while our white collar
unemployment rate climbs.
Add on top the most expensive education in the world and you're right.. Big
Problems.
Eventually many generations from now big business will run out of people to
exploit and we can be on a level playing field... or robots will be doing
those jobs.

To answer your question... haven't you seen Wallee??
We're all going to end up having robots do every conceivable job and lay
around like gelatin blobs all day until we're unable to even walk :)

Regarding Boycotting..
Any state, company, or other entity that boycotts Arizona businesses for
whatever reason  will not receive my business.  That includes weekend trips
to San Diego, Mexico, etc.

JD
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

Maybe. What if we were to go into deflation?  Wouldn't that help?



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, R P Herrold  wrote:

From: R P Herrold 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:01 PM

On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:

> I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void.  What do you base this
> on?

>> earlier, Joshua Zeidner:
>>   Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should 
>> do it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted 
>> anyway.  They are a California based company but they certainly do most of  
>> their work overseas.  The way things are currently going the outsourcing 
>> equation will change, and possibly become invalid. 

This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back

-- Russ herrold
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Re: registry cleaner

[keith smith]

I used the c-cleaner on my wife's computer.  Her computer was almost not 
usable.  I was going to put more RAM in it.  Now it is fine.  What a great tool!



Keith Smith

--- On Sun, 5/16/10, Bryan O'Neal  wrote:

From: Bryan O'Neal 
Subject: Re: registry cleaner
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Sunday, May 16, 2010, 10:43 AM

Unlike some people on this list I too understand how you could associate so 
little with windows as to not have a support structure for it. Thus, this being 
your only geek forum, would ask a windows question here ;)  Especially since 
there are a number of windows admins on the list.


I recommend C Cleaner (As one of the few free, decent. ones out there) - You 
can  see the Red Seven guys do a youtube vid on it here
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLRjpsrOIyQ


Good luck :)
And if you have any more windows question feal free to ask me off list. Or I 
will just toss out there - 

Can any one recommend a good windows admin list? 
- preferably an enterprise level one.


On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Michael Havens  wrote:
>
> I got a big bad virus infestation and had to reinstall my xp system. BUMMER! 
> Well, I need a registry cleaner and can't remember which one I had before. 
> Could you all suggest one?

>
> --
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Stephen  wrote:

> I do. So far i find it petty and silly, because so much of their core
> is Dependant on AZ resources and companies. and responding in knid
> would be the same..
>
> My apple boycott has nothing to do with LA/Cali being silly and petty
> and everything to do with the fact that apple keeps doing things that
> make my skin crawl
>


  Well I think its part of the greater program.  California is desperate to
prove the viability of their technology sector, and the recent shenanigans
with Apple were perhaps their last ditch effort to prove to the world that
California has some kind of advantage in technology production.  It seems
scary things are in store for California.

  Regarding LA/Cali, they are very much damaging AZ with their recent
attempts to smear the entire state.  I expect more of this kind of garbage
for their leadership there, who refuse to represent the middle class and
offer excuse after excuse.  In general both Apple and Microsoft will
continue to get pricier and more legally cumbersome, making Linux more and
more attractive.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/17/san-diego-faces-medicine-arizona-residents-cancel-travel-following-boycott/

  -jmz



>
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Eric Shubert  wrote:
> > Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >>
> >>  Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we
> should
> >> do it right back to them.
> >
> > Does anyone else find this ludicrous?
> >
> > --
> > -Eric 'shubes'
> >
>

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Re: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group

[AZ RUNE]

Sign me up I have to work with Linux at one job and Windows at the other
both would serve me great so let's do this.

Brian

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Stephen  wrote:

> Honestly OS's are tools you use the one that best suits your needs. I love
> linux for allot fo things and it gets better every day, but there are some
> things i deal with that require windows.
>
> Ill join the windows group
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:06 PM, keith smith wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't know if I have anything to offer, however I open do have Win
>> questions.  I have both Win and Linux in my home office.  The combo serves
>> me well.  Please no flames.
>>
>> 
>> Keith Smith
>>
>> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Jared Shapiro * wrote:
>>
>>
>> --
> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>
> Stephen
>
> ---
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-- 
Brian Fields
arizona.r...@gmail.com
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:01 PM, R P Herrold  wrote:

> On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:
>
>  I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void.  What do you base this
>> on?
>>
>
>  earlier, Joshua Zeidner:
>>>
>>>   Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we
>>> should do it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and
>>> overpromoted anyway.  They are a California based company but they certainly
>>> do most of  their work overseas.  The way things are currently going the
>>> outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become invalid.
>>>
>>
> This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
> genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it back
>


  This is how they want it to be viewed, as if outsourcing is inevitable and
natural progression.  It's anything but that.  These trade agreements and
the price differentials that make it possible are very much structured by
our policy (including military).  We give a lot of direct foreign aid to
India- why, if they are simultaneously outbidding us in the new
international job market?  Tell me, as foreign countries assume just about
every white collar job imaginable, what are we going to be doing exactly?

  I think there is the tendency to buy the story from the main stream media.
 It might seem comfortable to accept the dominant story for the short term,
but it suggests many more long term problems.  Big problems.

   -jmz



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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Stephen]

I do. So far i find it petty and silly, because so much of their core
is Dependant on AZ resources and companies. and responding in knid
would be the same..

My apple boycott has nothing to do with LA/Cali being silly and petty
and everything to do with the fact that apple keeps doing things that
make my skin crawl


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Eric Shubert  wrote:
> Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>>
>>  Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should
>> do it right back to them.
>
> Does anyone else find this ludicrous?
>
> --
> -Eric 'shubes'
>
> ---
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>



-- 
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Eric Shubert]

Joshua Zeidner wrote:
  Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we 
should do it right back to them.


Does anyone else find this ludicrous?

--
-Eric 'shubes'

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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[R P Herrold]

On Mon, 17 May 2010, keith smith wrote:


I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void.  What do you base this
on?



earlier, Joshua Zeidner:
  Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which 
is why we should do it right back to them.  Apple products 
are overpriced and overpromoted anyway.  They are a 
California based company but they certainly do most of  their 
work overseas.  The way things are currently going the 
outsourcing equation will change, and possibly become 
invalid. 


This looks like wishful thinking. The outsourcing/offshoring
genie is out of the bottle, and nothing is going to put it 
back


-- Russ herrold
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

  well outsourcing is viable if the dollar has overwhelming purchasing power
in the target country.  This could change sooner rather than later.

  -jmz



On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 1:35 PM, keith smith  wrote:

> I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void.  What do you base this on?
>
> 
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner * wrote:
>
>
> From: Joshua Zeidner 
>
> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
> Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 12:55 PM
>
>
>
>
>   Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should
> do it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted
> anyway.  They are a California based company but they certainly do most of
> their work overseas.  The way things are currently going the outsourcing
> equation will change, and possibly become invalid.
>
>   -jmz
>
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Steve Phariss 
> http://mc/compose?to=sphar...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
>> And this is why boycotts are stupid... if you take it to the logical
>> conclusion no one can buy anything.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Nadim Hoque 
>> http://mc/compose?to=nadimho...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> The thing is that Apple is based in california and that's where the
>>> design their products. Then again if we were to boycott all of california
>>> products wouldn't we have to ban our networking infrastructure because we
>>> the hardware is mostly based in california?
>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Kurt Granroth 
>>> http://mc/compose?to=kurt%2bplug-disc...@granroth.com>
>>> >
>>> Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:23:48
>>> To: 
>>> http://mc/compose?to=plug-disc...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
>>> >
>>> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
>>>
>>> On 5/16/10 12:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>>> > Hello PLUG,
>>> >
>>> >I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the
>>> > recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
>>> >
>>> > <
>>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
>>>  Hopefully
>>> > they will choose Linux.
>>>
>>> What does any of this have to do with Apple?
>>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group

[Stephen]

Honestly OS's are tools you use the one that best suits your needs. I love
linux for allot fo things and it gets better every day, but there are some
things i deal with that require windows.

Ill join the windows group

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:06 PM, keith smith  wrote:

>
> I don't know if I have anything to offer, however I open do have Win
> questions.  I have both Win and Linux in my home office.  The combo serves
> me well.  Please no flames.
>
> 
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Jared Shapiro * wrote:
>
>
> --
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[keith smith]

I sure hope outsourcing becomes null and void.  What do you base this 
on?



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Joshua Zeidner  wrote:

From: Joshua Zeidner 
Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 12:55 PM



  Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should do 
it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted anyway.  
They are a California based company but they certainly do most of their work 
overseas.  The way things are currently going the outsourcing equation will 
change, and possibly become invalid. 

  -jmz

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Steve Phariss  wrote:

And this is why boycotts are stupid... if you take it to the logical conclusion 
no one can buy anything.

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Nadim Hoque  wrote:


The thing is that Apple is based in california and that's where the design 
their products. Then again if we were to boycott all of california products 
wouldn't we have to ban our networking infrastructure because we the hardware 
is mostly based in california?



Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile



-Original Message-

From: Kurt Granroth 

Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:23:48

To: 

Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?



On 5/16/10 12:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:

> Hello PLUG,

>

>    I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the

> recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:

>

> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html



>

> 
>   Hopefully



> they will choose Linux.



What does any of this have to do with Apple?



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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Kurt Granroth]

Exactly.  That's why I'm boycotting all GM products.  GM is in the same
state as Ford and Ford assembles quite a few of their cars in Mexico. 
Mexico, as we all know, objects to the new AZ immigration law.

On 05/17/2010 12:55 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>   Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we
> should do it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and
> overpromoted anyway.  They are a California based company but they
> certainly do most of their work overseas.  The way things are
> currently going the outsourcing equation will change, and possibly
> become invalid. 
>
>   -jmz
>
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Steve Phariss  > wrote:
>
> And this is why boycotts are stupid... if you take it to the
> logical conclusion no one can buy anything.
>
>
> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Nadim Hoque  > wrote:
>
> The thing is that Apple is based in california and that's
> where the design their products. Then again if we were to
> boycott all of california products wouldn't we have to ban our
> networking infrastructure because we the hardware is mostly
> based in california?
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Granroth  >
> Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:23:48
> To:  >
> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
>
> On 5/16/10 12:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> > Hello PLUG,
> >
> >I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products
> due to the
> > recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
> >
> >
> 
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
> >
> >
> 
> 
>  Hopefully
> > they will choose Linux.
>
> What does any of this have to do with Apple?
>
>
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Joshua Zeidner]

  Clearly they are doing it for symbolic purposes... which is why we should
do it right back to them.  Apple products are overpriced and overpromoted
anyway.  They are a California based company but they certainly do most of
their work overseas.  The way things are currently going the outsourcing
equation will change, and possibly become invalid.

  -jmz


On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Steve Phariss  wrote:

> And this is why boycotts are stupid... if you take it to the logical
> conclusion no one can buy anything.
>
>
> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Nadim Hoque  wrote:
>
>> The thing is that Apple is based in california and that's where the design
>> their products. Then again if we were to boycott all of california products
>> wouldn't we have to ban our networking infrastructure because we the
>> hardware is mostly based in california?
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Kurt Granroth 
>> 
>> >
>> Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:23:48
>> To: 
>> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
>>
>> On 5/16/10 12:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>> > Hello PLUG,
>> >
>> >I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the
>> > recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
>> >
>> > <
>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
>>  Hopefully
>> > they will choose Linux.
>>
>> What does any of this have to do with Apple?
>>
>
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Re: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group

[Bryan O'Neal]

The combo servers many of us well. For a lot of us we are in a windows
dominate work place and are doing our best to intergrate linux. This is why
I wanted to start a windows group for people like us.  If I get about 5 more
people I will start the group and we can start a windows admin recruitment
with us plugers as a cultural base.

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:06 PM, keith smith  wrote:

>
> I don't know if I have anything to offer, however I open do have Win
> questions.  I have both Win and Linux in my home office.  The combo serves
> me well.  Please no flames.
>
> 
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Mon, 5/17/10, Jared Shapiro * wrote:
>
>
> From: Jared Shapiro 
> Subject: RE: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
> Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 8:20 AM
>
>
> Sign me up for the MAUG !  js
>
> -Original Message-
> From: 
> plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us[mailto:
> plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us]
> On Behalf Of Bryan O'Neal
> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 1:30 PM
> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> Subject: OT: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group
>
> As stated in a recent thread there seems to be a substantial lack of
> decent windows admin groups.  Particularly ones with the culture we
> enjoy here. The solution - start one. I know a dozen or so people here
> who are forced to admin windows boxes and would like a collective
> support group like what we have for plug. The next questions is do we
> have
> 1) Support - I am not founding another insta-dead group. The world has
> too many already
> 2) Name - How does MAUG sound - Microsoft Admin Users Group. The Maug
> are a group of islands in southeast asia near Japan.
>
> If I get more then 10 responses I will have the mailing list and a
> elchepo web page up tonight. After which I will start garnering
> support from the windows community so we can get a few hundred active
> members into the fold as quickly as possible
>
> Let me know
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Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?

[Steve Phariss]

And this is why boycotts are stupid... if you take it to the logical
conclusion no one can buy anything.

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Nadim Hoque  wrote:

> The thing is that Apple is based in california and that's where the design
> their products. Then again if we were to boycott all of california products
> wouldn't we have to ban our networking infrastructure because we the
> hardware is mostly based in california?
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Granroth 
> 
> >
> Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:23:48
> To: 
> Subject: Re: ditching Apple products due to boycotts?
>
> On 5/16/10 12:54 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> > Hello PLUG,
> >
> >I am wondering if anyone is switching off Apple products due to the
> > recent Los Angeles boycott of Arizona:
> >
> >
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html
> >
> > <
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/12/20100512los-angeles-boycott-vote-over-arizona-immigration-law12-ON.html>
>  Hopefully
> > they will choose Linux.
>
> What does any of this have to do with Apple?
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RE: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group

[keith smith]

I don't know if I have anything to offer, however I open do have Win 
questions.  I have both Win and Linux in my home office.  The combo serves me 
well.  Please no flames. 



Keith Smith

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Jared Shapiro  wrote:

From: Jared Shapiro 
Subject: RE: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group
To: "Main PLUG discussion list" 
Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 8:20 AM

Sign me up for the MAUG !  js

-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us 
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Bryan O'Neal
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 1:30 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: OT: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group

As stated in a recent thread there seems to be a substantial lack of
decent windows admin groups.  Particularly ones with the culture we
enjoy here. The solution - start one. I know a dozen or so people here
who are forced to admin windows boxes and would like a collective
support group like what we have for plug. The next questions is do we
have
1) Support - I am not founding another insta-dead group. The world has
too many already
2) Name - How does MAUG sound - Microsoft Admin Users Group. The Maug
are a group of islands in southeast asia near Japan.

If I get more then 10 responses I will have the mailing list and a
elchepo web page up tonight. After which I will start garnering
support from the windows community so we can get a few hundred active
members into the fold as quickly as possible

Let me know
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  ---
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Re: OT: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group

[joe]

How about WAG for win admin group?

I cringe every time I see the name microslop



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RE: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group

[Jared Shapiro]

Sign me up for the MAUG !  js

-Original Message-
From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us 
[mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of Bryan O'Neal
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 1:30 PM
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: OT: Win: Starting a windows enterprise admin group

As stated in a recent thread there seems to be a substantial lack of
decent windows admin groups.  Particularly ones with the culture we
enjoy here. The solution - start one. I know a dozen or so people here
who are forced to admin windows boxes and would like a collective
support group like what we have for plug. The next questions is do we
have
1) Support - I am not founding another insta-dead group. The world has
too many already
2) Name - How does MAUG sound - Microsoft Admin Users Group. The Maug
are a group of islands in southeast asia near Japan.

If I get more then 10 responses I will have the mailing list and a
elchepo web page up tonight. After which I will start garnering
support from the windows community so we can get a few hundred active
members into the fold as quickly as possible

Let me know
---
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