Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[Sean Heskett]

oh, sorry my bad.  i thought he wanted a site survey tool.



On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:09 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> That's what real heatmapping does, it just records the signal level every
> step of every SSID/Mac it sees. Then it makes a map of it to show you your
> real coverage for each AP.
> On Jan 4, 2016 1:06 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:
>
>> Set up test APs in key areas and use phone or laptop to check actual
>> environment less sexy more accurate
>> On Jan 4, 2016 11:50 AM, "Josh Luthman" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You draw the map on the software and then walk around plotting the data.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
 how can you ever expect an indoor heat map to ever be accurate?!?!
  what's the wall made of?  looks like drywall with studs...nope,
 cinderblock with drywall...oops no wifi on the other side lol.

 seriously tho, in a low noise environment i'd expect the AP to be
 useable up to ~200-300 feet away and closer.

 2 cents

 -sean


 On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:27 AM, David  wrote:

> What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?
>
>
> --
>


>>>

[AFMUG] OpenNMS

[Eric Kuhnke]

If you haven't taken a look at it recently - install a test VM. Just
updated OpenNMS here and am pleasantly surprised to see that its browser
based admin GUI now includes a properly done CSS for mobile devices (iOS
8+, Android 4.4+ and Chrome or Firefox)

No more panning and pinching/zooming.

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[Eric Kuhnke]

With ordinary omni ceiling mount indoor APs, I've had the best results by
taking a CAD plot of the office space or floor plan in question, turning it
into a high resolution PNG raster image and setting it as the locked,
fixed, unchangeable "background" of an Omnigraffle or Visio diagram. Then
walk around with a handheld dual band device and Android software that
reports actual RSL, make a note for each room/area, and draw the numbers in
varying shades of red/orange/blue/whatever on the map. If you want to
manually draw heatmaps use an oval graphics tool in some shade of
red/orange and set opacity to 50%, draw on top of your basemap floorplan.


On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> how can you ever expect an indoor heat map to ever be accurate?!?!  what's
> the wall made of?  looks like drywall with studs...nope, cinderblock with
> drywall...oops no wifi on the other side lol.
>
> seriously tho, in a low noise environment i'd expect the AP to be useable
> up to ~200-300 feet away and closer.
>
> 2 cents
>
> -sean
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:27 AM, David  wrote:
>
>> What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[Josh Luthman]

You draw the map on the software and then walk around plotting the data.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> how can you ever expect an indoor heat map to ever be accurate?!?!  what's
> the wall made of?  looks like drywall with studs...nope, cinderblock with
> drywall...oops no wifi on the other side lol.
>
> seriously tho, in a low noise environment i'd expect the AP to be useable
> up to ~200-300 feet away and closer.
>
> 2 cents
>
> -sean
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:27 AM, David  wrote:
>
>> What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[Jaime Solorza]

Bothaccepts all kinds of files you can import
Ekauhu Heatmapper appears to be free
Do you have to draw the floorplan or can you import an image?


On 1/4/2016 2:15 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

I have heatmapping software from Ekahu but I thought he needed to do
site surveybrain just getting back to work mode.
On Jan 4, 2016 12:09 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> That's what real heatmapping does, it just records the signal level every
> step of every SSID/Mac it sees. Then it makes a map of it to show you your
> real coverage for each AP.
> On Jan 4, 2016 1:06 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:
>
>> Set up test APs in key areas and use phone or laptop to check actual
>> environment less sexy more accurate
>> On Jan 4, 2016 11:50 AM, "Josh Luthman" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You draw the map on the software and then walk around plotting the data.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
 how can you ever expect an indoor heat map to ever be accurate?!?!
  what's the wall made of?  looks like drywall with studs...nope,
 cinderblock with drywall...oops no wifi on the other side lol.

 seriously tho, in a low noise environment i'd expect the AP to be
 useable up to ~200-300 feet away and closer.

 2 cents

 -sean


 On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:27 AM, David  wrote:

> What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?
>
>
> --
>


>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Eric Kuhnke]

It takes some fairly deep packet inspection to 'block' an openvpn server
running in TCP mode (not the default UDP) on port 443. I have an openvpn
instance for just this purpose, in case I get stuck somewhere like a wifi
captive portal in an airport lounge behind an overly restrictive firewall.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Justin Wilson  wrote:

>
> http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2084381/blocking-vpn-students-blocked-websites.html
>
>
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
>
> On Jan 4, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
>
> As an ISP why are you wasting your time 'blocking' anything other than
> standard ACLs like port 139/windows file sharing?  It's not your duty or
> responsibility. If people want to implement their own firewall at their
> self-owned router/CPE, let them, or if they want to buy some net nanny
> software for their end point device, that's their responsibility.
>
> An ISP is a* pipe*.
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
>> house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
>> Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
>> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
>> computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able
>> to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
>> want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
>> connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Mike Hammett]

SSL VPNs on port 443 do wonders. :-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "Craig Baird"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 11:44:30 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn 

It depends on just how tech savvy the person is. We had a similar 
situation a while back. Customer's kid was using VPNs to bypass 
whatever controls the customer had in place. We sold the customer a 
Mikrotik, and set it up to block the standard VPN ports. Problem 
solved--at least so far. The kid wasn't tech savvy enough to 
circumvent that. Obviously, that could change. 

Craig 


Quoting Nate Burke : 

> That was my thought, there's always a way around. Where there's a 
> will, there's a way. 
> 
> On 1/4/2016 9:50 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote: 
>> 
>> He can probably shift quite a few ports/methods around, or create 
>> vpns he controls to amazon., etc. Or Tor. Etc etc for every 
>> solution you come up with, there's a way around it. 
>> 
>> Also, this is a social/hr "issue". Treat it as such. 
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2016 9:45 AM, "Josh Luthman" > > wrote: 
>> 
>> VPN hides the traffic, so anything in it is getting through. 
>> Could you do 1kbps for all VPN traffic? 
>> 
>> Block porn with opendns and drop DNS to anything else? 
>> 
>> Josh Luthman 
>> Office: 937-552-2340  
>> Direct: 937-552-2343  
>> 1100 Wayne St 
>> Suite 1337 
>> Troy, OH 45373 
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2016 10:42 AM, "Nate Burke" > > wrote: 
>> 
>> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from 
>> their house. The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, 
>> and is using VPN Services. Is there any way to block someone 
>> like this? I'm guessing any content filtering wouldn't work 
>> because the VPN is terminating on the computer behind the 
>> router. Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able to 
>> bypass. Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting 
>> what they want? Right now our only thought is to put in like 
>> a 10k/s queue on their connection during the overnight 
>> hours. Other options? 
>> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[Jaime Solorza]

I have heatmapping software from Ekahu but I thought he needed to do
site surveybrain just getting back to work mode.
On Jan 4, 2016 12:09 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> That's what real heatmapping does, it just records the signal level every
> step of every SSID/Mac it sees. Then it makes a map of it to show you your
> real coverage for each AP.
> On Jan 4, 2016 1:06 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:
>
>> Set up test APs in key areas and use phone or laptop to check actual
>> environment less sexy more accurate
>> On Jan 4, 2016 11:50 AM, "Josh Luthman" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You draw the map on the software and then walk around plotting the data.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
 how can you ever expect an indoor heat map to ever be accurate?!?!
  what's the wall made of?  looks like drywall with studs...nope,
 cinderblock with drywall...oops no wifi on the other side lol.

 seriously tho, in a low noise environment i'd expect the AP to be
 useable up to ~200-300 feet away and closer.

 2 cents

 -sean


 On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:27 AM, David  wrote:

> What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?
>
>
> --
>


>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik x86 and ROS 6.x problems on 100M Ethernet links

[Ken Hohhof]

Justin, I tested from Ether1 which has the 82574L chip and do not see the 
problem.  So it would seem to be tied to the 82583V chips.

Do you have any recommendations?  I see it even on Baltic’s newer 1206 model 
which has the 1.8 GHz D525 ATOM CPU, so I don’t think it is due to having an 
early version.

Should I just downgrade to 5.26 and call it a day?

This combination of CPU and NICs seems pretty common though.  Roc-box for 
example.

From: Justin Wilson 
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2016 10:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik x86 and ROS 6.x problems on 100M Ethernet links

Ask Brian from Baltic what chipset is in these? We had problems with the 
earlier versions of these.  It boils down to the intel chipset used.  Had the 
same exact problem.   

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

  On Jan 1, 2016, at 2:32 PM, Kevin Radunz  wrote:

  I think some weard problems started around 6.33. There are posts of
  different topics about things like Winbox and VPN traffic not working but
  traffic through the device was fine.  Some thought MTU changes but I'm not
  sure I saw concrete fixes.  I know earlier versions don't do this.



I recently upgraded one of those RouterMaxx 1106 routers from 5.2 to
6.33.1
(I actually configured a new router and swapped hardware).  Ever since, I
have had performance problems with a couple ports that are connected to
radios with 100M Ethernet ports.  The most obvious symptom is that Winbox
won't stay connected or can't download plugins, but I also see pings
dropped
even to the directly connected equipment.

I was a bad boy making multiple changes at once, so I've been gradually
walking them back in the lab on the original router, I upgraded it to
6.33.1
and the problem appeared.  I dropped back to 6.31 and it was still there,
but when I dropped back to 5.26 everything was fine again.  I haven't
tried
earlier 6.x versions yet, 6.31 is the oldest x86 version I have handy.
This
is not a radio problem, I can reproduce it with a directly connected
laptop
if I force the laptop NIC to 100M FDX.

Is anyone familiar with this problem?  I can't find anything on the
Mikrotik
forums.  I guess I can live with 5.26 if I have to, but I'd like to know
what is causing this.  Do I just need to change some configuration
parameter?  I know 6.x brought out hardware only queues, but I think
that's
for Routerboards, not x86.  Is there a problem with the Intel NIC drivers
included with 6.x?  Any chance that an earlier or later version of 6.x
will
work for me?  I see nothing in the change logs about it.

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Eric Kuhnke]

As an ISP why are you wasting your time 'blocking' anything other than
standard ACLs like port 139/windows file sharing?  It's not your duty or
responsibility. If people want to implement their own firewall at their
self-owned router/CPE, let them, or if they want to buy some net nanny
software for their end point device, that's their responsibility.

An ISP is a* pipe*.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Nate Burke  wrote:

> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
> house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
> Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
> computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able
> to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
> want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
> connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?
>

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[David]

This is the way we have always done this but I was wanting to be more 
sexy :)



On 01/04/2016 01:06 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:


Set up test APs in key areas and use phone or laptop to check actual 
environment less sexy more accurate


On Jan 4, 2016 11:50 AM, "Josh Luthman" > wrote:


You draw the map on the software and then walk around plotting the
data.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Sean Heskett > wrote:

how can you ever expect an indoor heat map to ever be
accurate?!?!  what's the wall made of?  looks like drywall
with studs...nope, cinderblock with drywall...oops no wifi on
the other side lol.

seriously tho, in a low noise environment i'd expect the AP to
be useable up to ~200-300 feet away and closer.

2 cents

-sean


On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:27 AM, David > wrote:

What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?


-- 

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[Sean Heskett]

how can you ever expect an indoor heat map to ever be accurate?!?!  what's
the wall made of?  looks like drywall with studs...nope, cinderblock with
drywall...oops no wifi on the other side lol.

seriously tho, in a low noise environment i'd expect the AP to be useable
up to ~200-300 feet away and closer.

2 cents

-sean


On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:27 AM, David  wrote:

> What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?
>
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs

[Ken Hohhof]

Good point about the power being on 1/2 and 3/6.  I guess that makes it 802.3at 
Alternative A wiring.  According to the schematic, 4/5 and 7/8 are wired 
straight through with no transformer.  So gigabit compatible with only 2 
transformers.  Probably for non gigabit compatible, Alternative B is cheaper 
because you don’t need any transformers at all.  And the 60-75 watt POEs use 
all 8 wires for data and power, so 4 transformers.

So confusing!

I can’t find any wiring diagrams for the Cambium N65L001B, but at 60 watts, 
I guess it must use all 8 wires for power.  Hence the price?

Something else I notice is the Cambium POE is rated for 0 to 40C, while the 
Phihong unit is rated –20 to +65C.  Cambium tells you to use a PIDU for non 
controlled environment.  Or Netonix or GIGE-POE-APC or Syncinjector.

Still, AC powered POEs are handy for configuring radios on the bench, or like 
that case where I needed a POE at a customer’s office to power a SIP paging 
amplifier.


From: George Skorup 
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 2:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs

It's cheaper at Allied: http://www.alliedelec.com/phihong-poe36u-1at-r/70124112/

Yeah, if you're not going to use the Aux port on the 450i, there's no reason to 
buy a 60W injector. Just keep in mind that this Phihong injector is power over 
the 10/100 data lines. And is - on 1&2, + on 3&6. It'll work perfectly fine 
with the 450i APs and 5GHz SMs. And obviously the Exalt ExtendAir G2. The 450i 
is awesome with the any pair power setup.

The one thing I will say about this thing is that it runs a bit hot and if your 
hearing is decent, you can definitely hear the switcher whining away.


On 1/3/2016 7:29 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  I'm getting more and more equipment with 802.3at POEs, and I feel like I'm 
getting raped on the price if I get the POE from the equipment vendor.  High 
price and minimal features.

  My Exalt G2 radios came with these really nice POEs that have diagnostic LEDs 
and tabs for wall mounting as well as rubber feet for desktop use.  The only 
downside is they are kind of big, but that's not necessarily bad, that may help 
prevent overheating.  It has LED indications for valid 802.3af and 802.3at 
signatures, as well as a flashing overload indication.

  I looked up the part number, expecting them to be expensive, but Digi-Key has 
a bunch of them in stock and the price is quite reasonable ($38 in single 
quantity).

  http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/POE36U-1AT/993-1088-ND/2384576

  From the picture, this is also the POE that I should have gotten from 
CyberData to go with the SIP paging amplifier I bought, but instead they sent a 
cheaper L-Com POE that has just one dumb LED to show it is getting AC power.  
So I paid something like $64 for a $31 POE.

  The $100 Cambium POE for 450i is probably more than 36 watts in case you want 
to use the AUX port on the AP, but it lacks the nice mounting tabs and 
diagnostic LEDs.  And 36 watts should be more than enough to power just the AP.

  So I’m inclined to just buy a bunch of the nice Phihong units and use them on 
everything.  Am I missing something?

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[Adam Moffett]

Ekauhu Heatmapper appears to be free
Do you have to draw the floorplan or can you import an image?


On 1/4/2016 2:15 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:


I have heatmapping software from Ekahu but I thought he needed to 
do site surveybrain just getting back to work mode.


On Jan 4, 2016 12:09 PM, "Josh Reynolds" > wrote:


That's what real heatmapping does, it just records the signal
level every step of every SSID/Mac it sees. Then it makes a map of
it to show you your real coverage for each AP.

On Jan 4, 2016 1:06 PM, "Jaime Solorza" > wrote:

Set up test APs in key areas and use phone or laptop to check
actual environment less sexy more accurate

On Jan 4, 2016 11:50 AM, "Josh Luthman"
> wrote:

You draw the map on the software and then walk around
plotting the data.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Sean Heskett
> wrote:

how can you ever expect an indoor heat map to ever be
accurate?!?!  what's the wall made of?  looks like
drywall with studs...nope, cinderblock with
drywall...oops no wifi on the other side lol.

seriously tho, in a low noise environment i'd expect
the AP to be useable up to ~200-300 feet away and closer.

2 cents

-sean


On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:27 AM, David
> wrote:

What is everyone using for in building heat
mapping tools?


-- 

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[Josh Reynolds]

That's what real heatmapping does, it just records the signal level every
step of every SSID/Mac it sees. Then it makes a map of it to show you your
real coverage for each AP.
On Jan 4, 2016 1:06 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Set up test APs in key areas and use phone or laptop to check actual
> environment less sexy more accurate
> On Jan 4, 2016 11:50 AM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> You draw the map on the software and then walk around plotting the data.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> how can you ever expect an indoor heat map to ever be accurate?!?!
>>>  what's the wall made of?  looks like drywall with studs...nope,
>>> cinderblock with drywall...oops no wifi on the other side lol.
>>>
>>> seriously tho, in a low noise environment i'd expect the AP to be
>>> useable up to ~200-300 feet away and closer.
>>>
>>> 2 cents
>>>
>>> -sean
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:27 AM, David  wrote:
>>>
 What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?


 --

>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Glen Waldrop]

I know of at least two 50ft Rohn 25G that have been in the air without bracket 
or guys for 36+ years within 5 miles of here.

They survived Hurricane Frederick, Ivan, Katrina...

That being said, I’ve got a 75ft that is short guyed.

Personally if it has anything on it bigger than a Nanostation or an SXT I’d 
have it bracketed or at least short guys.



From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 12:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

http://www.rohnnet.com/rohn-g-series-self-supporting-tower




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com






From: "Jay Weekley" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 9:36:42 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for 
un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard is 
40 feet. Is this true?

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[Jaime Solorza]

Set up test APs in key areas and use phone or laptop to check actual
environment less sexy more accurate
On Jan 4, 2016 11:50 AM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> You draw the map on the software and then walk around plotting the data.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:44 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> how can you ever expect an indoor heat map to ever be accurate?!?!
>>  what's the wall made of?  looks like drywall with studs...nope,
>> cinderblock with drywall...oops no wifi on the other side lol.
>>
>> seriously tho, in a low noise environment i'd expect the AP to be useable
>> up to ~200-300 feet away and closer.
>>
>> 2 cents
>>
>> -sean
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:27 AM, David  wrote:
>>
>>> What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>
>>
>

[AFMUG] ePMP sync AP hardware variants?

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Are there different hardware versions of the ePMP AP with sync floating
around out there? I received a 5ghz ePMP AP w/ Sync (according to the box)
from attending the EPMP road show a year ago. This unit did not have a sma
connector under the cover and looked like a normal connectorized SM with 2
RJ-45 ports. Although the box stated on the outside it was a SYNC ap. Is
this a unit that will only accept sync over power or what is this thing
exactly?

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Justin Wilson]

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2084381/blocking-vpn-students-blocked-websites.html
 




Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
> 
> As an ISP why are you wasting your time 'blocking' anything other than 
> standard ACLs like port 139/windows file sharing?  It's not your duty or 
> responsibility. If people want to implement their own firewall at their 
> self-owned router/CPE, let them, or if they want to buy some net nanny 
> software for their end point device, that's their responsibility.
> 
> An ISP is a pipe. 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Nate Burke  > wrote:
> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their house.  
> The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN Services.  
> Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any content 
> filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the computer behind 
> the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able to bypass.  Is 
> there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they want?  Right now 
> our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their connection during 
> the overnight hours.  Other options?
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

[Chuck Hogg]

No, he said it wasn't. 844E copper Ethernet version.

Regards,
Chuck

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Just for confirmation, this is on the gpon version? Now I'm wondering what
> other prices you are getting...
>
> Can you hit me up off list?
> On Jan 4, 2016 7:47 AM, "Craig Schmaderer" 
> wrote:
>
>> Just hit up your sales manager.  We buy them with 5 year warranties at
>> $179.  So far best $150 home routers we have used.
>>
>> Craig schmaderer
>> Skywave Wireless, Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 10:03 PM -0800, "Josh Reynolds" <
>> j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>>
>> Interesting. I'm curious why our price on the gpon version is $244/ea
>> then.
>> On Jan 1, 2016 10:41 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:
>>
>>> It's the 844E copper Ethernet version.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>>
 Wait, are these the gpon gigacenters, 802.11AC, beamforming?
 On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:

> I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we
> are paying nowhere near what you are stating here.
>
> We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for
> 500 users.
>
> We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed
> wifi" service.  ROI is ~4months/client.
>
>  So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487.
>
> Sean
>
>
> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished
>> basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or
>> sheetrock wall in my home.
>>
>> I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and
>> account number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon
>> router, and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is
>> okay, but procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data
>> monitoring for customer troubleshooting).
>>
>> Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month
>> like calix does.
>> On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”.  I
>>> suspect that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will 
>>> need
>>> more than 1 access point to cover the entire house, despite the best 
>>> MIMO
>>> and beamforming technology.  Especially the way some customers resist
>>> locating the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to
>>> look at wires”.
>>>
>>> Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10
>>> gigabit Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open 
>>> in
>>> 10 or 20 years to rewire.  If rooms are designed with places for 
>>> “network
>>> boxes” and fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics 
>>> can
>>> be upgraded as technology evolves.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
>>>
>>> https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html
>>>
>>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, do you have a link to information then?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though
>>> I’ve heard of them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, I’m lazy J
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> $149
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> For $200?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:
>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] *On Behalf Of
>>> *Sean Heskett
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM
>>> *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson <
>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sterl...@avative.net');> wrote:
>>>
>>> I hear you.
>>>
>>> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

[George Skorup]

This is more along the lines of noisy FM sites or extended cable length. 
Plus a 300+ foot cat5e/6, even shielded, is a surge magnet.


I do not like the idea of a multi-port device, especially on the tower. 
If it fails, then multiple radios go down.


What I would do is order predetermined lengths of hybrid power+fiber 
cables for each radio. It's not about saving money on the cable runs. I 
want the power and ethernet loop for every radio to terminate in the 
shelter.


On 1/3/2016 12:35 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:


At a recent show I spent some time asking people about doing this very 
product...


That is,  a DC powered fiber to poe injector.   Small box at the top, 
run power and fiber to it,  and a short jumper to the radio.  I had 
gotten as far as finding the appropriate silicon to do this.


I also asked on this list.

The response I got was underwhelming.  Either they had no interest in 
this at all or  they didn't see any reason why they wouldn't just put 
a small netonix in a box at the top and then only run a single fiber.  
After asking a lot of potential costumers and I don't think getting a 
single positive feedback I abandoned the idea,  although I still think 
it's an excellent idea.


On Jan 2, 2016 9:33 PM, "George Skorup" > wrote:

>
> No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a box 
that goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out to the 
radio's POE+data port.

>
> Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP or 
even a fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers this box 
and also sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to select pair 
polarity like a GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power like Forrest's 
SyncPipe Parasitic's.

>
> I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff like 
the AF24, but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could also pass 
sync-over-power, you'd have a very usable product. I know at one point 
Forrest was talking about doing a SyncInjector module that only put 
out power+sync, no ethernet. The idea was to feed it into your 
GIGE-APC-POE cards.

>
> Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so this 
wouldn't be for that. I guess it would work for radios like the Exalt 
ExtendAir G2 which is copper PoE only, and either secondary copper 
GigE or special order T1/E1, but the main port is 802.3at POE.

>
>
> On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> No, that is a different project.
>>
>> So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit? Both of my POE 
surge suppressors will do that.

>>
>> From: George Skorup
>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
>>
>> Is that the media converter thing you were talking about?
>>
>> Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid 
power+fiber cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC 
radio. The most common thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24, because 
UBNT decided not to put an SFP and a DC input block on the damn 
things. For one or two radios, at different heights I might add, 
throwing something like a Netonix switch up there doesn't make sense. 
Plus they're PTPs that I want to go straight into physical router 
interfaces. The media converter should also pass through the link 
status in both directions. I have some cheap-o Startech media 
converters that don't do that, even though there's a dip switch for 
it, but it doesn't work, and it pisses me off.

>>
>> On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
>>> It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC 
buck converter.  Right now it is a kludge.  If it powers up the 844E 
OK under max load while being powered from a netonix switch I will 
combine the two circuits onto a board and look for an appropriate case 
for it.

>>>
>>> From: Chris Fabien
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
>>>
>>>
>>> Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter.
>>>
>>> On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:


 Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too...
 Love their flow software.

 From: Sean Heskett
 Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM
 To: af@afmug.com 
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

 Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling



 On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:

>
> I hear you.
>
> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
>
> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
>
> I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm 
finding that it's still best to get a really nice 

Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

[George Skorup]

No, that doesn't work for me. Nor does a Netonix switch on the tower.

On 1/3/2016 12:39 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


You're basically taking about one of the new Ubiquiti EdgePoint 
variants. DC and fiber in to router/switch, multiple POE ports out.


On Jan 2, 2016 10:33 PM, "George Skorup" > wrote:


No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a
box that goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out
to the radio's POE+data port.

Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP or
even a fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers this
box and also sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to select
pair polarity like a GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power like
Forrest's SyncPipe Parasitic's.

I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff like
the AF24, but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could also
pass sync-over-power, you'd have a very usable product. I know at
one point Forrest was talking about doing a SyncInjector module
that only put out power+sync, no ethernet. The idea was to feed it
into your GIGE-APC-POE cards.

Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so
this wouldn't be for that. I guess it would work for radios like
the Exalt ExtendAir G2 which is copper PoE only, and either
secondary copper GigE or special order T1/E1, but the main port is
802.3at POE.

On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

No, that is a different project.
So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit?  Both of my
POE surge suppressors will do that.
*From:* George Skorup 
*Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Is that the media converter thing you were talking about?

Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid
power+fiber cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC
radio. The most common thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24,
because UBNT decided not to put an SFP and a DC input block on
the damn things. For one or two radios, at different heights I
might add, throwing something like a Netonix switch up there
doesn't make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go straight
into physical router interfaces. The media converter should also
pass through the link status in both directions. I have some
cheap-o Startech media converters that don't do that, even though
there's a dip switch for it, but it doesn't work, and it pisses
me off.

On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC
buck converter.  Right now it is a kludge.  If it powers up the
844E OK under max load while being powered from a netonix switch
I will combine the two circuits onto a board and look for an
appropriate case for it.
*From:* Chris Fabien 
*Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter.

On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:

Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too...
Love their flow software.
*From:* Sean Heskett 
*Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling


On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson
> wrote:

I hear you.

My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my
customers.

Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.

I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but
I'm finding that it's still best to get a really nice
$100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place it in the
center of the house.

What I would really like is a good split solution with
routing in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge
mode in one or two places in the house.

But that doesn't seem to exist.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a
managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a
RB951G-2HnD which has been 

Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs

[George Skorup]

It's cheaper at Allied: 
http://www.alliedelec.com/phihong-poe36u-1at-r/70124112/


Yeah, if you're not going to use the Aux port on the 450i, there's no 
reason to buy a 60W injector. Just keep in mind that this Phihong 
injector is power over the 10/100 data lines. And is - on 1&2, + on 3&6. 
It'll work perfectly fine with the 450i APs and 5GHz SMs. And obviously 
the Exalt ExtendAir G2. The 450i is awesome with the any pair power setup.


The one thing I will say about this thing is that it runs a bit hot and 
if your hearing is decent, you can definitely hear the switcher whining 
away.


On 1/3/2016 7:29 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I'm getting more and more equipment with 802.3at POEs, and I feel like 
I'm getting raped on the price if I get the POE from the equipment 
vendor.  High price and minimal features.
My Exalt G2 radios came with these really nice POEs that have 
diagnostic LEDs and tabs for wall mounting as well as rubber feet for 
desktop use.  The only downside is they are kind of big, but that's 
not necessarily bad, that may help prevent overheating.  It has LED 
indications for valid 802.3af and 802.3at signatures, as well as a 
flashing overload indication.
I looked up the part number, expecting them to be expensive, but 
Digi-Key has a bunch of them in stock and the price is quite 
reasonable ($38 in single quantity).

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/POE36U-1AT/993-1088-ND/2384576
From the picture, this is also the POE that I should have gotten from 
CyberData to go with the SIP paging amplifier I bought, but instead 
they sent a cheaper L-Com POE that has just one dumb LED to show it is 
getting AC power.  So I paid something like $64 for a $31 POE.
The $100 Cambium POE for 450i is probably more than 36 watts in case 
you want to use the AUX port on the AP, but it lacks the nice mounting 
tabs and diagnostic LEDs.  And 36 watts should be more than enough to 
power just the AP.
So I’m inclined to just buy a bunch of the nice Phihong units and use 
them on everything.  Am I missing something?

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP sync AP hardware variants?

[Mathew Howard]

it sounds like a you got a normal connectorized radio without sync in the
wrong box. What is the model/part number on the radio?

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> Are there different hardware versions of the ePMP AP with sync floating
> around out there? I received a 5ghz ePMP AP w/ Sync (according to the box)
> from attending the EPMP road show a year ago. This unit did not have a sma
> connector under the cover and looked like a normal connectorized SM with 2
> RJ-45 ports. Although the box stated on the outside it was a SYNC ap. Is
> this a unit that will only accept sync over power or what is this thing
> exactly?
>

[AFMUG] Packet Flux for 450i 900

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Which sync injector would I use for the new 450i 900 radios.  Spec
sheet shows 48 - 56 vdc

  

-- 
Thanks,
 Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

Please Donate at http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html


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Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Jaime Solorza]

humm?  are you suggesting mating two different model towers?

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Somone pointed out to me that the top sections of an SSV are ALMOST
> straight, not quite.  Close enough for government work though.
>
> -Original Message- From: Daniel White
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 3:40 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower
>
> What about Rohn 55, 65, etc.  You can even get creative and use the top
> 50ft of a self supporter where it is straight so the legs are much further
> apart. I like those towers.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Daniel White
> afmu...@gmail.com
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> Skype: danieldwhite
> Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
>
> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
>> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:53 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower
>>
>> Yeah, I forgot about needing to be bracketed to a building to get over
>> 20 feet.  Back to the drawing board.
>>
>> Bill Prince wrote:
>> > Depends on the wind loading. If you have anything more than a skinny
>> > omni on 25G, I would guy anything above 20'. IOW, no more than 20 feet
>> > un-guyed. 45G; probably 30'.
>> >
>> > bp
>> > 
>> >
>> > On 1/4/2016 7:36 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>> >> Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for
>> >> un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard
>> >> is 40 feet. Is this true?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Eric Kuhnke]

I think he's talking about mounting radios directly on the tower legs,
using the radio's mount built in elevation adjustment, rather than a
standoff mount which is normally needed on a tapering self supporting tower.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> humm?  are you suggesting mating two different model towers?
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Somone pointed out to me that the top sections of an SSV are ALMOST
>> straight, not quite.  Close enough for government work though.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Daniel White
>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 3:40 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower
>>
>> What about Rohn 55, 65, etc.  You can even get creative and use the top
>> 50ft of a self supporter where it is straight so the legs are much further
>> apart. I like those towers.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Daniel White
>> afmu...@gmail.com
>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>> Skype: danieldwhite
>> Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:53 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower
>>>
>>> Yeah, I forgot about needing to be bracketed to a building to get over
>>> 20 feet.  Back to the drawing board.
>>>
>>> Bill Prince wrote:
>>> > Depends on the wind loading. If you have anything more than a skinny
>>> > omni on 25G, I would guy anything above 20'. IOW, no more than 20 feet
>>> > un-guyed. 45G; probably 30'.
>>> >
>>> > bp
>>> > 
>>> >
>>> > On 1/4/2016 7:36 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>> >> Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for
>>> >> un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard
>>> >> is 40 feet. Is this true?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Jaime Solorza]

oh okay ...i was going to say that is a Bozo no no

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> I think he's talking about mounting radios directly on the tower legs,
> using the radio's mount built in elevation adjustment, rather than a
> standoff mount which is normally needed on a tapering self supporting tower.
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> humm?  are you suggesting mating two different model towers?
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> Wireless Systems Architect
>> 915-861-1390
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> Somone pointed out to me that the top sections of an SSV are ALMOST
>>> straight, not quite.  Close enough for government work though.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Daniel White
>>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 3:40 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower
>>>
>>> What about Rohn 55, 65, etc.  You can even get creative and use the top
>>> 50ft of a self supporter where it is straight so the legs are much further
>>> apart. I like those towers.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Daniel White
>>> afmu...@gmail.com
>>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>>> Skype: danieldwhite
>>> Social: LinkedIn: Twitter
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
 Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:53 AM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

 Yeah, I forgot about needing to be bracketed to a building to get over
 20 feet.  Back to the drawing board.

 Bill Prince wrote:
 > Depends on the wind loading. If you have anything more than a skinny
 > omni on 25G, I would guy anything above 20'. IOW, no more than 20 feet
 > un-guyed. 45G; probably 30'.
 >
 > bp
 > 
 >
 > On 1/4/2016 7:36 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
 >> Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for
 >> un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard
 >> is 40 feet. Is this true?
 >
 >
 >

>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Packet Flux for 450i 900

[Josh Luthman]

SyncInjector

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 4, 2016 6:27 PM, "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
wrote:

> Which sync injector would I use for the new 450i 900 radios.  Spec
> sheet shows 48 - 56 vdc
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.MyakkaTech.com
>
> Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL
>
> Please Donate at http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

POE is quite the crackwhore of terms nowadays, alot of people use her in
alot of different ways and nobody wants to pay much. I wish there was just
a design standard that just auto sensed and applied, 24v 48v pick a pair.
Just to eliminate the additional stocking of appropriate power supplies and
surge suppression, they would be worth a little more, and if it were to
become common the cost would drop

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 5:30 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> I believe Phihong wired it that way so that you can use it as a 3at
> compliant injector where only two pairs may be present (so 10/100 only). IP
> phones come to mind. We run into a lot of older-ish structured wiring where
> they ran only one cat5 and stole one pair for phone and two pairs for
> ethernet. Not the way I'd do it, but whatever. Most of the phones we're
> using now have a built-in GigE switch.
>
> I remember seeing in the 450i guide that it will take either polarity on
> all pairs. If you're not using the aux port, then two pairs for power (30W)
> will be fine. If you are, or I suppose if it's a long run, then all four
> pairs for power would be warranted. I really like this PoE design. Would be
> nice if the regular 450 APs would take 48-56VDC. I know they talked about
> that at one point, but it looks like we're limited to 30VDC. Well, at least
> that's what the label says.
>
> The whole pin swapping thing with the 450i and CMM4 is because 56VDC mode
> on the CMM4 is wired for the split pair 320/430 config. With the AP being
> pair polarity agnostic, you don't need to do the swapping when using a
> SyncInjector. Basically it will take the standard Canopy POE pinout, just
> needs to be >=48VDC. Probably more like >40VDC.
>
> On 1/4/2016 12:50 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Good point about the power being on 1/2 and 3/6.  I guess that makes it
> 802.3at Alternative A wiring.  According to the schematic, 4/5 and 7/8 are
> wired straight through with no transformer.  So gigabit compatible with
> only 2 transformers.  Probably for non gigabit compatible, Alternative B is
> cheaper because you don’t need any transformers at all.  And the 60-75 watt
> POEs use all 8 wires for data and power, so 4 transformers.
>
> So confusing!
>
> I can’t find any wiring diagrams for the Cambium N65L001B, but at 60
> watts, I guess it must use all 8 wires for power.  Hence the price?
>
> Something else I notice is the Cambium POE is rated for 0 to 40C, while
> the Phihong unit is rated –20 to +65C.  Cambium tells you to use a PIDU for
> non controlled environment.  Or Netonix or GIGE-POE-APC or Syncinjector.
>
> Still, AC powered POEs are handy for configuring radios on the bench, or
> like that case where I needed a POE at a customer’s office to power a SIP
> paging amplifier.
>
>
> *From:* George Skorup 
> *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 2:35 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs
>
> It's cheaper at Allied:
> http://www.alliedelec.com/phihong-poe36u-1at-r/70124112/
>
> Yeah, if you're not going to use the Aux port on the 450i, there's no
> reason to buy a 60W injector. Just keep in mind that this Phihong injector
> is power over the 10/100 data lines. And is - on 1&2, + on 3&6. It'll work
> perfectly fine with the 450i APs and 5GHz SMs. And obviously the Exalt
> ExtendAir G2. The 450i is awesome with the any pair power setup.
>
> The one thing I will say about this thing is that it runs a bit hot and if
> your hearing is decent, you can definitely hear the switcher whining away.
>
> On 1/3/2016 7:29 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I'm getting more and more equipment with 802.3at POEs, and I feel like I'm
> getting raped on the price if I get the POE from the equipment vendor.
> High price and minimal features.
>
> My Exalt G2 radios came with these really nice POEs that have diagnostic
> LEDs and tabs for wall mounting as well as rubber feet for desktop use.
> The only downside is they are kind of big, but that's not necessarily bad,
> that may help prevent overheating.  It has LED indications for valid
> 802.3af and 802.3at signatures, as well as a flashing overload indication.
>
> I looked up the part number, expecting them to be expensive, but Digi-Key
> has a bunch of them in stock and the price is quite reasonable ($38 in
> single quantity).
>
> 
> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/POE36U-1AT/993-1088-ND/2384576
>
> From the picture, this is also the POE that I should have gotten from
> CyberData to go with the SIP paging amplifier I bought, but instead they
> sent a cheaper L-Com POE that has just one dumb LED to show it is getting
> AC power.  So I paid something like $64 for a $31 POE.
>
> The $100 Cambium POE for 450i is probably more than 36 watts in case you
> want to use the AUX port on the AP, but it lacks the nice mounting tabs and
> diagnostic LEDs.  And 36 watts should be more than enough to power just the

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP sync AP hardware variants?

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

That's a ROW connectorized SM.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 5:01 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
> 
> Part number of the radio that came in the box that said sync was C050900A021A
> 
> I have attached a pic of the radio in questions serial number in question 
> along with 3 other radios that are known to not by sync AP.s
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
>> it sounds like a you got a normal connectorized radio without sync in the 
>> wrong box. What is the model/part number on the radio?
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  
>>> wrote:
>>> Are there different hardware versions of the ePMP AP with sync floating 
>>> around out there? I received a 5ghz ePMP AP w/ Sync (according to the box) 
>>> from attending the EPMP road show a year ago. This unit did not have a sma 
>>> connector under the cover and looked like a normal connectorized SM with 2 
>>> RJ-45 ports. Although the box stated on the outside it was a SYNC ap. Is 
>>> this a unit that will only accept sync over power or what is this thing 
>>> exactly?
>> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs

[George Skorup]

I believe Phihong wired it that way so that you can use it as a 3at 
compliant injector where only two pairs may be present (so 10/100 only). 
IP phones come to mind. We run into a lot of older-ish structured wiring 
where they ran only one cat5 and stole one pair for phone and two pairs 
for ethernet. Not the way I'd do it, but whatever. Most of the phones 
we're using now have a built-in GigE switch.


I remember seeing in the 450i guide that it will take either polarity on 
all pairs. If you're not using the aux port, then two pairs for power 
(30W) will be fine. If you are, or I suppose if it's a long run, then 
all four pairs for power would be warranted. I really like this PoE 
design. Would be nice if the regular 450 APs would take 48-56VDC. I know 
they talked about that at one point, but it looks like we're limited to 
30VDC. Well, at least that's what the label says.


The whole pin swapping thing with the 450i and CMM4 is because 56VDC 
mode on the CMM4 is wired for the split pair 320/430 config. With the AP 
being pair polarity agnostic, you don't need to do the swapping when 
using a SyncInjector. Basically it will take the standard Canopy POE 
pinout, just needs to be >=48VDC. Probably more like >40VDC.


On 1/4/2016 12:50 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Good point about the power being on 1/2 and 3/6.  I guess that makes 
it 802.3at Alternative A wiring.  According to the schematic, 4/5 and 
7/8 are wired straight through with no transformer.  So gigabit 
compatible with only 2 transformers.  Probably for non gigabit 
compatible, Alternative B is cheaper because you don’t need any 
transformers at all.  And the 60-75 watt POEs use all 8 wires for data 
and power, so 4 transformers.

So confusing!
I can’t find any wiring diagrams for the Cambium N65L001B, but at 
60 watts, I guess it must use all 8 wires for power.  Hence the price?
Something else I notice is the Cambium POE is rated for 0 to 40C, 
while the Phihong unit is rated –20 to +65C. Cambium tells you to use 
a PIDU for non controlled environment.  Or Netonix or GIGE-POE-APC or 
Syncinjector.
Still, AC powered POEs are handy for configuring radios on the bench, 
or like that case where I needed a POE at a customer’s office to power 
a SIP paging amplifier.

*From:* George Skorup 
*Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 2:35 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs
It's cheaper at Allied: 
http://www.alliedelec.com/phihong-poe36u-1at-r/70124112/


Yeah, if you're not going to use the Aux port on the 450i, there's no 
reason to buy a 60W injector. Just keep in mind that this Phihong 
injector is power over the 10/100 data lines. And is - on 1&2, + on 
3&6. It'll work perfectly fine with the 450i APs and 5GHz SMs. And 
obviously the Exalt ExtendAir G2. The 450i is awesome with the any 
pair power setup.


The one thing I will say about this thing is that it runs a bit hot 
and if your hearing is decent, you can definitely hear the switcher 
whining away.


On 1/3/2016 7:29 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I'm getting more and more equipment with 802.3at POEs, and I feel 
like I'm getting raped on the price if I get the POE from the 
equipment vendor.  High price and minimal features.
My Exalt G2 radios came with these really nice POEs that have 
diagnostic LEDs and tabs for wall mounting as well as rubber feet for 
desktop use. The only downside is they are kind of big, but that's 
not necessarily bad, that may help prevent overheating.  It has LED 
indications for valid 802.3af and 802.3at signatures, as well as a 
flashing overload indication.
I looked up the part number, expecting them to be expensive, but 
Digi-Key has a bunch of them in stock and the price is quite 
reasonable ($38 in single quantity).

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/POE36U-1AT/993-1088-ND/2384576
From the picture, this is also the POE that I should have gotten from 
CyberData to go with the SIP paging amplifier I bought, but instead 
they sent a cheaper L-Com POE that has just one dumb LED to show it 
is getting AC power.  So I paid something like $64 for a $31 POE.
The $100 Cambium POE for 450i is probably more than 36 watts in case 
you want to use the AUX port on the AP, but it lacks the nice 
mounting tabs and diagnostic LEDs.  And 36 watts should be more than 
enough to power just the AP.
So I’m inclined to just buy a bunch of the nice Phihong units and use 
them on everything.  Am I missing something?

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[George Skorup]

The top two sections on our office SSV are 5N and 4N. I think it's 
something like 8-10" of slope over that 40 feet. The 6, 7 and 8N 
sections are obviously a lot different.


What's funny is that the top two sections weigh more than the bottom 
three because the tops are solid rod legs and braces. They had all 100 
feet of that thing stacked in like 35 minutes. Real tower constructors 
with an experienced crane operator know how to get shit done son!


I also specifically requested that we did not do the skinny 3, 2, and 1W 
SSV sections on top and opted for the larger 8N base. Good thing too 
because I think it would've folded over in the 165+ MPH tornado. In 
fact, I'm sure it would have.


On 1/4/2016 5:23 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Just saying I thought on a Rohn SSV once you got to the upper sections 
1-5 they were straight and all the same face width, but actually 
there’s a bit of taper to them.

*From:* Jaime Solorza 
*Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 4:31 PM
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower
oh okay ...i was going to say that is a Bozo no no
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Eric Kuhnke > wrote:


I think he's talking about mounting radios directly on the tower
legs, using the radio's mount built in elevation adjustment,
rather than a standoff mount which is normally needed on a
tapering self supporting tower.
On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Jaime Solorza
> wrote:

humm?  are you suggesting mating two different model towers?

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390 
On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:

Somone pointed out to me that the top sections of an SSV
are ALMOST straight, not quite.  Close enough for
government work though.

-Original Message- From: Daniel White
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 3:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

What about Rohn 55, 65, etc. You can even get creative and
use the top 50ft of a self supporter where it is straight
so the legs are much further apart. I like those towers.

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com 
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

Yeah, I forgot about needing to be bracketed to a
building to get over
20 feet.  Back to the drawing board.

Bill Prince wrote:
> Depends on the wind loading. If you have anything
more than a skinny
> omni on 25G, I would guy anything above 20'. IOW, no
more than 20 feet
> un-guyed. 45G; probably 30'.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 1/4/2016 7:36 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>> Just for clarification, what are the maximum
heights, if any, for
>> un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The
rumor I've heard
>> is 40 feet. Is this true?
>
>
>



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Re: [AFMUG] Packet Flux for 450i 900

[Ken Hohhof]

Forrest, maybe if you are going to mix numbers and letters, skip over the 
letters I and O?  Too easy to confuse with 1 and 0.

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 5:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Packet Flux for 450i 900

Forrest said to use the Gigabit SyncInjector and feed it up to 56V. Also 
request revision I0 when ordering.

And obviously don't try to mix any other radios (like FSK or regular 450) or 
you'll let the magic smoke out because they won't take >30VDC.


On 1/4/2016 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  SyncInjector

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Jan 4, 2016 6:27 PM, "Mark - Myakka Technologies"  wrote:

Which sync injector would I use for the new 450i 900 radios.  Spec
sheet shows 48 - 56 vdc



--
Thanks,
Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

Please Donate at http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html


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Re: [AFMUG] Packet Flux for 450i 900

[Josh Luthman]

Agreed.

Also regular 450 does 48v doesn't it???

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 4, 2016 7:22 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> Forrest, maybe if you are going to mix numbers and letters, skip over the
> letters I and O?  Too easy to confuse with 1 and 0.
>
> *From:* George Skorup 
> *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 5:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Packet Flux for 450i 900
>
> Forrest said to use the Gigabit SyncInjector and feed it up to 56V. Also
> request revision I0 when ordering.
>
> And obviously don't try to mix any other radios (like FSK or regular 450)
> or you'll let the magic smoke out because they won't take >30VDC.
>
> On 1/4/2016 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> SyncInjector
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Jan 4, 2016 6:27 PM, "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
> wrote:
>
>> Which sync injector would I use for the new 450i 900 radios.  Spec
>> sheet shows 48 - 56 vdc
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>> Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>> www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>> Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
>> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL
>>
>> Please Donate at http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Ken Hohhof]

I want one of those 4-sided towers like you see along the tollway.  The ones 
that look like there should be a fire lookout tower at the top.

Or maybe a Sabre S4R.
https://www.facebook.com/Sabreindustries/photos/pb.240001369446373.-220752.1451953683./255490917897418/?type=3
https://www.facebook.com/Sabreindustries/photos/pb.240001369446373.-220752.1451953803./255490931230750/?type=3



From: George Skorup 
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 5:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

The top two sections on our office SSV are 5N and 4N. I think it's something 
like 8-10" of slope over that 40 feet. The 6, 7 and 8N sections are obviously a 
lot different.

What's funny is that the top two sections weigh more than the bottom three 
because the tops are solid rod legs and braces. They had all 100 feet of that 
thing stacked in like 35 minutes. Real tower constructors with an experienced 
crane operator know how to get shit done son!

I also specifically requested that we did not do the skinny 3, 2, and 1W SSV 
sections on top and opted for the larger 8N base. Good thing too because I 
think it would've folded over in the 165+ MPH tornado. In fact, I'm sure it 
would have.


On 1/4/2016 5:23 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Just saying I thought on a Rohn SSV once you got to the upper sections 1-5 
they were straight and all the same face width, but actually there’s a bit of 
taper to them.

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 4:31 PM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

  oh okay ...i was going to say that is a Bozo no no

  Jaime Solorza 
  Wireless Systems Architect
  915-861-1390

  On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

I think he's talking about mounting radios directly on the tower legs, 
using the radio's mount built in elevation adjustment, rather than a standoff 
mount which is normally needed on a tapering self supporting tower.


On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

  humm?  are you suggesting mating two different model towers?   


  Jaime Solorza 
  Wireless Systems Architect
  915-861-1390

  On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Somone pointed out to me that the top sections of an SSV are ALMOST 
straight, not quite.  Close enough for government work though.

-Original Message- From: Daniel White
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 3:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

What about Rohn 55, 65, etc.  You can even get creative and use the top 
50ft of a self supporter where it is straight so the legs are much further 
apart. I like those towers.

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter


  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
  Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:53 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower


  Yeah, I forgot about needing to be bracketed to a building to get over
  20 feet.  Back to the drawing board.

  Bill Prince wrote:
  > Depends on the wind loading. If you have anything more than a skinny
  > omni on 25G, I would guy anything above 20'. IOW, no more than 20 
feet
  > un-guyed. 45G; probably 30'.
  >
  > bp
  > 
  >
  > On 1/4/2016 7:36 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
  >> Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for
  >> un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard
  >> is 40 feet. Is this true?
  >
  >
  >




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Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Daniel White]

What about Rohn 55, 65, etc.  You can even get creative and use the top 50ft of 
a self supporter where it is straight so the legs are much further apart.  I 
like those towers.

Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter

> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:53 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower
>
> Yeah, I forgot about needing to be bracketed to a building to get over
> 20 feet.  Back to the drawing board.
>
> Bill Prince wrote:
> > Depends on the wind loading. If you have anything more than a skinny
> > omni on 25G, I would guy anything above 20'. IOW, no more than 20 feet
> > un-guyed. 45G; probably 30'.
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 1/4/2016 7:36 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> >> Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for
> >> un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard
> >> is 40 feet. Is this true?
> >
> >
> >


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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP sync AP hardware variants?

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Yup, if it doesn't have a metal heat sink/faceplate, it's not an AP.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 4:43 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> 
> it sounds like a you got a normal connectorized radio without sync in the 
> wrong box. What is the model/part number on the radio?
> 
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  
>> wrote:
>> Are there different hardware versions of the ePMP AP with sync floating 
>> around out there? I received a 5ghz ePMP AP w/ Sync (according to the box) 
>> from attending the EPMP road show a year ago. This unit did not have a sma 
>> connector under the cover and looked like a normal connectorized SM with 2 
>> RJ-45 ports. Although the box stated on the outside it was a SYNC ap. Is 
>> this a unit that will only accept sync over power or what is this thing 
>> exactly?
> 

Re: [AFMUG] What you need to know about IPv6 in 2016 not same Matt

[Eric Kuhnke]

http://bgp.potaroo.net/v6/as2.0/

We were at 25,000 in the FIB table size just a few weeks ago and now
pushing 27,000.  v6 adoption is important!




On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 6:13 AM, Paul Stewart  wrote:

> Not really a great article in my opinion but at least Matt pushed on the
> fact that IPv6 adoption is important.  There are way too many ISP’s still
> with their head in the sand with this …
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 3, 2016 9:29 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] What you need to know about IPv6 in 2016 not same Matt
>
>
>
>
> http://www.networkworld.com/article/301/internet-of-things/what-you-need-to-know-about-ipv6-in-2016.html?google_editors_picks=true
>

Re: [AFMUG] Packet Flux for 450i 900

[George Skorup]

Forrest said to use the Gigabit SyncInjector and feed it up to 56V. Also 
request revision I0 when ordering.


And obviously don't try to mix any other radios (like FSK or regular 
450) or you'll let the magic smoke out because they won't take >30VDC.


On 1/4/2016 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:


SyncInjector

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Jan 4, 2016 6:27 PM, "Mark - Myakka Technologies" > wrote:


Which sync injector would I use for the new 450i 900 radios.  Spec
sheet shows 48 - 56 vdc



--
Thanks,
 Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com


Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com 

Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL

Please Donate at http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html


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Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Ken Hohhof]

Somone pointed out to me that the top sections of an SSV are ALMOST 
straight, not quite.  Close enough for government work though.


-Original Message- 
From: Daniel White

Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 3:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

What about Rohn 55, 65, etc.  You can even get creative and use the top 50ft 
of a self supporter where it is straight so the legs are much further apart. 
I like those towers.


Thank you,

Daniel White
afmu...@gmail.com
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

Yeah, I forgot about needing to be bracketed to a building to get over
20 feet.  Back to the drawing board.

Bill Prince wrote:
> Depends on the wind loading. If you have anything more than a skinny
> omni on 25G, I would guy anything above 20'. IOW, no more than 20 feet
> un-guyed. 45G; probably 30'.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 1/4/2016 7:36 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>> Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for
>> un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard
>> is 40 feet. Is this true?
>
>
>



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[Josh Luthman]

You guys have too much fun to be working hard.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Here it is with an extension ladder "on the roof" ;)
>
> The side by sides with tracks are really awesome but the stuff we go up
> is too steep.
>
>
>
> On Monday, January 4, 2016, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> "Work truck"
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

my mind just melted

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:29 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Time to connect a power-over-ethernet and ethernet-over-powerlines adapter
> in a loop and create free limitless energy.  Who needs the E-cat!?!
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Stop making sense... it's disturbs the space time continuum
>> On Jan 4, 2016 5:33 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> POE is quite the crackwhore of terms nowadays, alot of people use her in
>>> alot of different ways and nobody wants to pay much. I wish there was just
>>> a design standard that just auto sensed and applied, 24v 48v pick a pair.
>>> Just to eliminate the additional stocking of appropriate power supplies and
>>> surge suppression, they would be worth a little more, and if it were to
>>> become common the cost would drop
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 5:30 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>>>
 I believe Phihong wired it that way so that you can use it as a 3at
 compliant injector where only two pairs may be present (so 10/100 only). IP
 phones come to mind. We run into a lot of older-ish structured wiring where
 they ran only one cat5 and stole one pair for phone and two pairs for
 ethernet. Not the way I'd do it, but whatever. Most of the phones we're
 using now have a built-in GigE switch.

 I remember seeing in the 450i guide that it will take either polarity
 on all pairs. If you're not using the aux port, then two pairs for power
 (30W) will be fine. If you are, or I suppose if it's a long run, then all
 four pairs for power would be warranted. I really like this PoE design.
 Would be nice if the regular 450 APs would take 48-56VDC. I know they
 talked about that at one point, but it looks like we're limited to 30VDC.
 Well, at least that's what the label says.

 The whole pin swapping thing with the 450i and CMM4 is because 56VDC
 mode on the CMM4 is wired for the split pair 320/430 config. With the AP
 being pair polarity agnostic, you don't need to do the swapping when using
 a SyncInjector. Basically it will take the standard Canopy POE pinout, just
 needs to be >=48VDC. Probably more like >40VDC.

 On 1/4/2016 12:50 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

 Good point about the power being on 1/2 and 3/6.  I guess that makes it
 802.3at Alternative A wiring.  According to the schematic, 4/5 and 7/8 are
 wired straight through with no transformer.  So gigabit compatible with
 only 2 transformers.  Probably for non gigabit compatible, Alternative B is
 cheaper because you don’t need any transformers at all.  And the 60-75 watt
 POEs use all 8 wires for data and power, so 4 transformers.

 So confusing!

 I can’t find any wiring diagrams for the Cambium N65L001B, but at
 60 watts, I guess it must use all 8 wires for power.  Hence the price?

 Something else I notice is the Cambium POE is rated for 0 to 40C, while
 the Phihong unit is rated –20 to +65C.  Cambium tells you to use a PIDU for
 non controlled environment.  Or Netonix or GIGE-POE-APC or Syncinjector.

 Still, AC powered POEs are handy for configuring radios on the bench,
 or like that case where I needed a POE at a customer’s office to power a
 SIP paging amplifier.


 *From:* George Skorup 
 *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 2:35 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs

 It's cheaper at Allied:
 http://www.alliedelec.com/phihong-poe36u-1at-r/70124112/

 Yeah, if you're not going to use the Aux port on the 450i, there's no
 reason to buy a 60W injector. Just keep in mind that this Phihong injector
 is power over the 10/100 data lines. And is - on 1&2, + on 3&6. It'll work
 perfectly fine with the 450i APs and 5GHz SMs. And obviously the Exalt
 ExtendAir G2. The 450i is awesome with the any pair power setup.

 The one thing I will say about this thing is that it runs a bit hot and
 if your hearing is decent, you can definitely hear the switcher whining
 away.

 On 1/3/2016 7:29 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

 I'm getting more and more equipment with 802.3at POEs, and I feel like
 I'm getting raped on the price if I get the POE from the equipment vendor.
 High price and minimal features.

 My Exalt G2 radios came with these really nice POEs that have
 diagnostic LEDs and tabs for wall mounting as well as rubber feet for
 desktop use.  The only downside is they are kind of big, but that's not
 necessarily bad, that may help prevent overheating.  It has LED indications
 for valid 802.3af and 802.3at signatures, as well as a flashing overload
 indication.

 I looked up the part number, expecting them to be expensive, but
 

[AFMUG] New work truck

[Sean Heskett]

Re: [AFMUG] Force 200 missing screws

[Josh Luthman]

Below the reflector on top of the bottom cardboard thing?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 4, 2016 9:29 PM, "Darin Steffl"  wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> Has anyone gotten the force 200 in yet and are you missing the M6 screws
> shown here in step 4?
>
> I've ripped the box apart and they're nowhere to be found.
>
> Anyone else? Or am I missing some secret compartment in the box. Thanks
>
> Sent from my smartphone. Please excuse any typos.
>

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[Jaime Solorza]

It's a tool first and foremost...that it is fun and awesome is just a by
product... the Grand Puba has spoken...
On Jan 4, 2016 9:23 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz"  wrote:

> Our accountant asked us several different ways last year how much of the
> snowmobile was personal use and how much was work. No matter how we
> answered she didn’t seem to want to accept that it was 100% for work.
> Finally after explaining the location of some towers she got it. I guess
> everyone up here that owns their business must try and write off a
> snowmobile.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 8:03 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New work truck
>
>
>
> "Work truck"
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[Josh Luthman]

"Work truck"


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

>

Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs

[Jaime Solorza]

Stop making sense... it's disturbs the space time continuum
On Jan 4, 2016 5:33 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> POE is quite the crackwhore of terms nowadays, alot of people use her in
> alot of different ways and nobody wants to pay much. I wish there was just
> a design standard that just auto sensed and applied, 24v 48v pick a pair.
> Just to eliminate the additional stocking of appropriate power supplies and
> surge suppression, they would be worth a little more, and if it were to
> become common the cost would drop
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 5:30 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>
>> I believe Phihong wired it that way so that you can use it as a 3at
>> compliant injector where only two pairs may be present (so 10/100 only). IP
>> phones come to mind. We run into a lot of older-ish structured wiring where
>> they ran only one cat5 and stole one pair for phone and two pairs for
>> ethernet. Not the way I'd do it, but whatever. Most of the phones we're
>> using now have a built-in GigE switch.
>>
>> I remember seeing in the 450i guide that it will take either polarity on
>> all pairs. If you're not using the aux port, then two pairs for power (30W)
>> will be fine. If you are, or I suppose if it's a long run, then all four
>> pairs for power would be warranted. I really like this PoE design. Would be
>> nice if the regular 450 APs would take 48-56VDC. I know they talked about
>> that at one point, but it looks like we're limited to 30VDC. Well, at least
>> that's what the label says.
>>
>> The whole pin swapping thing with the 450i and CMM4 is because 56VDC mode
>> on the CMM4 is wired for the split pair 320/430 config. With the AP being
>> pair polarity agnostic, you don't need to do the swapping when using a
>> SyncInjector. Basically it will take the standard Canopy POE pinout, just
>> needs to be >=48VDC. Probably more like >40VDC.
>>
>> On 1/4/2016 12:50 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> Good point about the power being on 1/2 and 3/6.  I guess that makes it
>> 802.3at Alternative A wiring.  According to the schematic, 4/5 and 7/8 are
>> wired straight through with no transformer.  So gigabit compatible with
>> only 2 transformers.  Probably for non gigabit compatible, Alternative B is
>> cheaper because you don’t need any transformers at all.  And the 60-75 watt
>> POEs use all 8 wires for data and power, so 4 transformers.
>>
>> So confusing!
>>
>> I can’t find any wiring diagrams for the Cambium N65L001B, but at 60
>> watts, I guess it must use all 8 wires for power.  Hence the price?
>>
>> Something else I notice is the Cambium POE is rated for 0 to 40C, while
>> the Phihong unit is rated –20 to +65C.  Cambium tells you to use a PIDU for
>> non controlled environment.  Or Netonix or GIGE-POE-APC or Syncinjector.
>>
>> Still, AC powered POEs are handy for configuring radios on the bench, or
>> like that case where I needed a POE at a customer’s office to power a SIP
>> paging amplifier.
>>
>>
>> *From:* George Skorup 
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 2:35 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs
>>
>> It's cheaper at Allied:
>> http://www.alliedelec.com/phihong-poe36u-1at-r/70124112/
>>
>> Yeah, if you're not going to use the Aux port on the 450i, there's no
>> reason to buy a 60W injector. Just keep in mind that this Phihong injector
>> is power over the 10/100 data lines. And is - on 1&2, + on 3&6. It'll work
>> perfectly fine with the 450i APs and 5GHz SMs. And obviously the Exalt
>> ExtendAir G2. The 450i is awesome with the any pair power setup.
>>
>> The one thing I will say about this thing is that it runs a bit hot and
>> if your hearing is decent, you can definitely hear the switcher whining
>> away.
>>
>> On 1/3/2016 7:29 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> I'm getting more and more equipment with 802.3at POEs, and I feel like
>> I'm getting raped on the price if I get the POE from the equipment vendor.
>> High price and minimal features.
>>
>> My Exalt G2 radios came with these really nice POEs that have diagnostic
>> LEDs and tabs for wall mounting as well as rubber feet for desktop use.
>> The only downside is they are kind of big, but that's not necessarily bad,
>> that may help prevent overheating.  It has LED indications for valid
>> 802.3af and 802.3at signatures, as well as a flashing overload indication.
>>
>> I looked up the part number, expecting them to be expensive, but Digi-Key
>> has a bunch of them in stock and the price is quite reasonable ($38 in
>> single quantity).
>>
>> 
>> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/POE36U-1AT/993-1088-ND/2384576
>>
>> From the picture, this is also the POE that I should have gotten from
>> CyberData to go with the SIP paging amplifier I bought, but instead they
>> sent a cheaper L-Com POE that has just one dumb LED to show it is getting
>> AC power.  So I paid something like $64 

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Our accountant asked us several different ways last year how much of the 
snowmobile was personal use and how much was work. No matter how we answered 
she didn’t seem to want to accept that it was 100% for work. Finally after 
explaining the location of some towers she got it. I guess everyone up here 
that owns their business must try and write off a snowmobile.

 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

 

"Work truck"




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

[Jason McKemie]

Whatever it is, it needs to be managed. That is one thing that killed
Mikrotik's outdoor "ONT" device for me - it is just passive, no way to do
any actual diagnostics.

On Sunday, January 3, 2016, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> At a recent show I spent some time asking people about doing this very
> product...
>
> That is,  a DC powered fiber to poe injector.   Small box at the top, run
> power and fiber to it,  and a short jumper to the radio.  I had gotten as
> far as finding the appropriate silicon to do this.
>
> I also asked on this list.
>
> The response I got was underwhelming.  Either they had no interest in this
> at all or  they didn't see any reason why they wouldn't just put a small
> netonix in a box at the top and then only run a single fiber.  After asking
> a lot of potential costumers and I don't think getting a single positive
> feedback I abandoned the idea,  although I still think it's an excellent
> idea.
>
> On Jan 2, 2016 9:33 PM, "George Skorup"  > wrote:
> >
> > No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a box
> that goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out to the
> radio's POE+data port.
> >
> > Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP or even
> a fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers this box and also
> sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to select pair polarity like a
> GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power like Forrest's SyncPipe Parasitic's.
> >
> > I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff like the
> AF24, but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could also pass
> sync-over-power, you'd have a very usable product. I know at one point
> Forrest was talking about doing a SyncInjector module that only put out
> power+sync, no ethernet. The idea was to feed it into your GIGE-APC-POE
> cards.
> >
> > Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so this
> wouldn't be for that. I guess it would work for radios like the Exalt
> ExtendAir G2 which is copper PoE only, and either secondary copper GigE or
> special order T1/E1, but the main port is 802.3at POE.
> >
> >
> > On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> >>
> >> No, that is a different project.
> >>
> >> So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit?  Both of my POE
> surge suppressors will do that.
> >>
> >> From: George Skorup
> >> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM
> >> To: af@afmug.com 
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
> >>
> >> Is that the media converter thing you were talking about?
> >>
> >> Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid
> power+fiber cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC radio. The
> most common thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24, because UBNT decided not
> to put an SFP and a DC input block on the damn things. For one or two
> radios, at different heights I might add, throwing something like a Netonix
> switch up there doesn't make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go
> straight into physical router interfaces. The media converter should also
> pass through the link status in both directions. I have some cheap-o
> Startech media converters that don't do that, even though there's a dip
> switch for it, but it doesn't work, and it pisses me off.
> >>
> >> On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC buck
> converter.  Right now it is a kludge.  If it powers up the 844E OK under
> max load while being powered from a netonix switch I will combine the two
> circuits onto a board and look for an appropriate case for it.
> >>>
> >>> From: Chris Fabien
> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM
> >>> To: af@afmug.com 
> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter.
> >>>
> >>> On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown"  > wrote:
> 
>  Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too...
>  Love their flow software.
> 
>  From: Sean Heskett
>  Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM
>  To: af@afmug.com 
>  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
> 
>  Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling
> 
> 
> 
>  On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson  > wrote:
> >
> > I hear you.
> >
> > My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
> >
> > Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
> >
> > I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding
> that it's still best 

Re: [AFMUG] Packet Flux for 450i 900

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I thought about it... but I stuck with it (Revision I) since revision I
seems to be easy to remember that it is needed to work with a 450i...

Just like H0 products are all "high voltage" compatible.


On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Forrest, maybe if you are going to mix numbers and letters, skip over the
> letters I and O?  Too easy to confuse with 1 and 0.
>
> *From:* George Skorup 
> *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 5:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Packet Flux for 450i 900
>
> Forrest said to use the Gigabit SyncInjector and feed it up to 56V. Also
> request revision I0 when ordering.
>
> And obviously don't try to mix any other radios (like FSK or regular 450)
> or you'll let the magic smoke out because they won't take >30VDC.
>
> On 1/4/2016 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> SyncInjector
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Jan 4, 2016 6:27 PM, "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
> wrote:
>
>> Which sync injector would I use for the new 450i 900 radios.  Spec
>> sheet shows 48 - 56 vdc
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>> Mark  mailto: m...@mailmt.com
>>
>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>> www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>> Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life
>> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL
>>
>> Please Donate at http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs

[Eric Kuhnke]

Time to connect a power-over-ethernet and ethernet-over-powerlines adapter
in a loop and create free limitless energy.  Who needs the E-cat!?!

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Stop making sense... it's disturbs the space time continuum
> On Jan 4, 2016 5:33 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
> wrote:
>
>> POE is quite the crackwhore of terms nowadays, alot of people use her in
>> alot of different ways and nobody wants to pay much. I wish there was just
>> a design standard that just auto sensed and applied, 24v 48v pick a pair.
>> Just to eliminate the additional stocking of appropriate power supplies and
>> surge suppression, they would be worth a little more, and if it were to
>> become common the cost would drop
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 5:30 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>>
>>> I believe Phihong wired it that way so that you can use it as a 3at
>>> compliant injector where only two pairs may be present (so 10/100 only). IP
>>> phones come to mind. We run into a lot of older-ish structured wiring where
>>> they ran only one cat5 and stole one pair for phone and two pairs for
>>> ethernet. Not the way I'd do it, but whatever. Most of the phones we're
>>> using now have a built-in GigE switch.
>>>
>>> I remember seeing in the 450i guide that it will take either polarity on
>>> all pairs. If you're not using the aux port, then two pairs for power (30W)
>>> will be fine. If you are, or I suppose if it's a long run, then all four
>>> pairs for power would be warranted. I really like this PoE design. Would be
>>> nice if the regular 450 APs would take 48-56VDC. I know they talked about
>>> that at one point, but it looks like we're limited to 30VDC. Well, at least
>>> that's what the label says.
>>>
>>> The whole pin swapping thing with the 450i and CMM4 is because 56VDC
>>> mode on the CMM4 is wired for the split pair 320/430 config. With the AP
>>> being pair polarity agnostic, you don't need to do the swapping when using
>>> a SyncInjector. Basically it will take the standard Canopy POE pinout, just
>>> needs to be >=48VDC. Probably more like >40VDC.
>>>
>>> On 1/4/2016 12:50 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> Good point about the power being on 1/2 and 3/6.  I guess that makes it
>>> 802.3at Alternative A wiring.  According to the schematic, 4/5 and 7/8 are
>>> wired straight through with no transformer.  So gigabit compatible with
>>> only 2 transformers.  Probably for non gigabit compatible, Alternative B is
>>> cheaper because you don’t need any transformers at all.  And the 60-75 watt
>>> POEs use all 8 wires for data and power, so 4 transformers.
>>>
>>> So confusing!
>>>
>>> I can’t find any wiring diagrams for the Cambium N65L001B, but at 60
>>> watts, I guess it must use all 8 wires for power.  Hence the price?
>>>
>>> Something else I notice is the Cambium POE is rated for 0 to 40C, while
>>> the Phihong unit is rated –20 to +65C.  Cambium tells you to use a PIDU for
>>> non controlled environment.  Or Netonix or GIGE-POE-APC or Syncinjector.
>>>
>>> Still, AC powered POEs are handy for configuring radios on the bench, or
>>> like that case where I needed a POE at a customer’s office to power a SIP
>>> paging amplifier.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* George Skorup 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 2:35 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 802.3at POEs
>>>
>>> It's cheaper at Allied:
>>> http://www.alliedelec.com/phihong-poe36u-1at-r/70124112/
>>>
>>> Yeah, if you're not going to use the Aux port on the 450i, there's no
>>> reason to buy a 60W injector. Just keep in mind that this Phihong injector
>>> is power over the 10/100 data lines. And is - on 1&2, + on 3&6. It'll work
>>> perfectly fine with the 450i APs and 5GHz SMs. And obviously the Exalt
>>> ExtendAir G2. The 450i is awesome with the any pair power setup.
>>>
>>> The one thing I will say about this thing is that it runs a bit hot and
>>> if your hearing is decent, you can definitely hear the switcher whining
>>> away.
>>>
>>> On 1/3/2016 7:29 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm getting more and more equipment with 802.3at POEs, and I feel like
>>> I'm getting raped on the price if I get the POE from the equipment vendor.
>>> High price and minimal features.
>>>
>>> My Exalt G2 radios came with these really nice POEs that have diagnostic
>>> LEDs and tabs for wall mounting as well as rubber feet for desktop use.
>>> The only downside is they are kind of big, but that's not necessarily bad,
>>> that may help prevent overheating.  It has LED indications for valid
>>> 802.3af and 802.3at signatures, as well as a flashing overload indication.
>>>
>>> I looked up the part number, expecting them to be expensive, but
>>> Digi-Key has a bunch of them in stock and the price is quite reasonable
>>> ($38 in single quantity).
>>>
>>> 
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] New work truck

[Jaime Solorza]

Bitchin
On Jan 4, 2016 7:13 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> HEA (power company in Homer, AK) has something like this at one of their
> remote sites.
> On Jan 4, 2016 8:02 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> "Work truck"
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

[Mike Hammett]

*nods* Multiport devices don't do me any good as I drop every radio down to a 
router port. Ubiquiti's new box is like wanting to get laid, so you go to a 
strip club. It doesn't really make the situation any better and I'm not sure it 
was worth the effort either. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "George Skorup"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 3:03:24 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream 

This is more along the lines of noisy FM sites or extended cable length. Plus a 
300+ foot cat5e/6, even shielded, is a surge magnet. 

I do not like the idea of a multi-port device, especially on the tower. If it 
fails, then multiple radios go down. 

What I would do is order predetermined lengths of hybrid power+fiber cables for 
each radio. It's not about saving money on the cable runs. I want the power and 
ethernet loop for every radio to terminate in the shelter. 


On 1/3/2016 12:35 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: 



At a recent show I spent some time asking people about doing this very 
product... 
That is, a DC powered fiber to poe injector. Small box at the top, run power 
and fiber to it, and a short jumper to the radio. I had gotten as far as 
finding the appropriate silicon to do this. 
I also asked on this list. 
The response I got was underwhelming. Either they had no interest in this at 
all or they didn't see any reason why they wouldn't just put a small netonix in 
a box at the top and then only run a single fiber. After asking a lot of 
potential costumers and I don't think getting a single positive feedback I 
abandoned the idea, although I still think it's an excellent idea. 

On Jan 2, 2016 9:33 PM, "George Skorup" < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote: 
> 
> No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a box that 
> goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out to the radio's 
> POE+data port. 
> 
> Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP or even a 
> fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers this box and also 
> sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to select pair polarity like a 
> GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power like Forrest's SyncPipe Parasitic's. 
> 
> I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff like the AF24, 
> but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could also pass sync-over-power, 
> you'd have a very usable product. I know at one point Forrest was talking 
> about doing a SyncInjector module that only put out power+sync, no ethernet. 
> The idea was to feed it into your GIGE-APC-POE cards. 
> 
> Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so this wouldn't 
> be for that. I guess it would work for radios like the Exalt ExtendAir G2 
> which is copper PoE only, and either secondary copper GigE or special order 
> T1/E1, but the main port is 802.3at POE. 
> 
> 
> On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 
>> 
>> No, that is a different project. 
>> 
>> So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit? Both of my POE surge 
>> suppressors will do that. 
>> 
>> From: George Skorup 
>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM 
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream 
>> 
>> Is that the media converter thing you were talking about? 
>> 
>> Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid power+fiber 
>> cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC radio. The most common 
>> thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24, because UBNT decided not to put an 
>> SFP and a DC input block on the damn things. For one or two radios, at 
>> different heights I might add, throwing something like a Netonix switch up 
>> there doesn't make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go straight into 
>> physical router interfaces. The media converter should also pass through the 
>> link status in both directions. I have some cheap-o Startech media 
>> converters that don't do that, even though there's a dip switch for it, but 
>> it doesn't work, and it pisses me off. 
>> 
>> On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 
>>> 
>>> It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC buck 
>>> converter. Right now it is a kludge. If it powers up the 844E OK under max 
>>> load while being powered from a netonix switch I will combine the two 
>>> circuits onto a board and look for an appropriate case for it. 
>>> 
>>> From: Chris Fabien 
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM 
>>> To: af@afmug.com 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter. 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 
 
 Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too... 
 Love their flow software. 
 
 From: Sean Heskett 
 Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM 
 To: 

Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

[David Milholen]

Josh,
 Where and what are the parts used in this pic?


On 1/3/2016 9:15 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

You could do something like this.  The model pictured is a 1036.


On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Looks like I remembered wrong, 125 watts, $3050.
http://routerboard.com/CCR1072-1G-8Splus
*From:* Scott Vander Dussen 
*Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 10:08 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
Close, it's the 256 core version is 72W, $895 MSRP.

Thanks,
`S
---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:59, Ken Hohhof > wrote:


The 72 core version is something like 250 watts, isn’t it?
*From:* Scott Vander Dussen 
*Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:55 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
Well, it doesn't have PoE in, but I also don't have a PoE device
there, it's just the CCR1016-12S-1S+ by itself.  But you're
right, even 802.11at or PoE+ only supports 30W. This must he why
MT does not support PoE-in on the higher-end CCRs.

Thanks,
'S
Sent mobile!

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:47, Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Max power consumption 44 watts, so I guess you could power it
via POE, but it would have to be a high power POE.
*From:* Scott Vander Dussen 
*Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
No copper ports, all SFP.  :/
Instead of including a "free" copper transceiver I'd prefer one
of the ports as PoE-in copper like most of their other products.

Thanks,
`S
---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:27, TJ Trout > wrote:


feed it poe
On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:22 PM, George Skorup
> wrote:

Oh look, a new product! And MikroTik still didn't listen.
Seriously, how f'n hard is it to listen to your customers
for one, and two, at least make it easy to run these things
straight off of DC.

I have a 1016-12S-1S+ for a fiber project. It's pretty nice
with the redundant power supplies. And if this project
called for a DC plant, I'd be using something else.

Anyway, I'm sure you could rip the AC-DC power supplies out
and wire it up how you want. Or drill a couple holes and
put some of those banana plug terminal things in I suppose.
Too much work for me.

On 1/2/2016 5:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:


With a +48vdc power source would it make sense to power a
CCR1016-12S-1S+
 by opening the
case, bypassing the AC power supplies, and connecting a
TRACO Power TCL 060-124


directly to the routerboard?  Is there an easier more
efficient way?  Trying to avoid using AC at all, thanks.







--

Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

[Craig Schmaderer]

Just hit up your sales manager.  We buy them with 5 year warranties at $179.  
So far best $150 home routers we have used.

Craig schmaderer
Skywave Wireless, Inc.




On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 10:03 PM -0800, "Josh Reynolds" 
> wrote:


Interesting. I'm curious why our price on the gpon version is $244/ea then.

On Jan 1, 2016 10:41 PM, "Sean Heskett" 
> wrote:
It's the 844E copper Ethernet version.


On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:

Wait, are these the gpon gigacenters, 802.11AC, beamforming?

On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:
I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we are 
paying nowhere near what you are stating here.

We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for 500 users.

We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed wifi" 
service.  ROI is ~4months/client.

 So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487.

Sean


On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished basement. 
Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or sheetrock wall in my 
home.

I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and account 
number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon router, and 
the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is okay, but procera 
does a far better job than calix in that regard (data monitoring for customer 
troubleshooting).

Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month like calix 
does.

On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”.  I suspect that 5 
GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more than 1 access 
point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and beamforming 
technology.  Especially the way some customers resist locating the router at 
the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at wires”.

Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 gigabit 
Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open in 10 or 20 
years to rewire.  If rooms are designed with places for “network boxes” and 
fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can be upgraded as 
technology evolves.


From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html

From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

Ok, do you have a link to information then?

I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve heard of 
them.

Also, I’m lazy :)

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

$149

On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
For $200?

From: Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] On 
Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM
To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling



On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson 
 wrote:
I hear you.

My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.

Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.

I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that it's 
still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place 
it in the center of the house.

What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the 
head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house.

But that doesn't seem to exist.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, 
we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once 
we tweak a couple WiFi parameters.  I think they look at the pile of discarded 
routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it.  Most 
still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I 
like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the
$250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp.  And people still 
look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it 
can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router 

Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

[David Milholen]

Unless you have a larger site like me that has to deal with 2 systems 
that are overlaid on the tower and need to have a switch that allows for

changes to broadcast control.
 Most of our sites we do exactly what you are doing by going straight 
to a routed port but sometimes cant have cake and eat it too :)




On 1/4/2016 7:09 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
*nods* Multiport devices don't do me any good as I drop every radio 
down to a router port. Ubiquiti's new box is like wanting to get laid, 
so you go to a strip club. It doesn't really make the situation any 
better and I'm not sure it was worth the effort either.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com



*From: *"George Skorup" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, January 4, 2016 3:03:24 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

This is more along the lines of noisy FM sites or extended cable 
length. Plus a 300+ foot cat5e/6, even shielded, is a surge magnet.


I do not like the idea of a multi-port device, especially on the 
tower. If it fails, then multiple radios go down.


What I would do is order predetermined lengths of hybrid power+fiber 
cables for each radio. It's not about saving money on the cable runs. 
I want the power and ethernet loop for every radio to terminate in the 
shelter.


On 1/3/2016 12:35 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

At a recent show I spent some time asking people about doing this
very product...

That is,  a DC powered fiber to poe injector. Small box at the
top, run power and fiber to it,  and a short jumper to the radio. 
I had gotten as far as finding the appropriate silicon to do this.


I also asked on this list.

The response I got was underwhelming.  Either they had no interest
in this at all or  they didn't see any reason why they wouldn't
just put a small netonix in a box at the top and then only run a
single fiber.  After asking a lot of potential costumers and I
don't think getting a single positive feedback I abandoned the
idea, although I still think it's an excellent idea.

On Jan 2, 2016 9:33 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:
>
> No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a
box that goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out
to the radio's POE+data port.
>
> Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP
or even a fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers
this box and also sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to
select pair polarity like a GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power
like Forrest's SyncPipe Parasitic's.
>
> I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff
like the AF24, but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could
also pass sync-over-power, you'd have a very usable product. I
know at one point Forrest was talking about doing a SyncInjector
module that only put out power+sync, no ethernet. The idea was to
feed it into your GIGE-APC-POE cards.
>
> Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so
this wouldn't be for that. I guess it would work for radios like
the Exalt ExtendAir G2 which is copper PoE only, and either
secondary copper GigE or special order T1/E1, but the main port is
802.3at POE.
>
>
> On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> No, that is a different project.
>>
>> So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit?  Both of my
POE surge suppressors will do that.
>>
>> From: George Skorup
>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
>>
>> Is that the media converter thing you were talking about?
>>
>> Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a
hybrid power+fiber cable up the tower and I want to power up a
20-56VDC radio. The most common thing I'm thinking of here is an
AF24, because UBNT decided not to put an SFP and a DC input block
on the damn things. For one or two radios, at different heights I
might add, throwing something like a Netonix switch up there
doesn't make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go straight
into physical router interfaces. The media converter should also
pass through the link status in both directions. I have some
cheap-o Startech media converters that don't do that, even though
there's a dip switch 

Re: [AFMUG] What you need to know about IPv6 in 2016 not same Matt

[Paul Stewart]

Not really a great article in my opinion but at least Matt pushed on the fact 
that IPv6 adoption is important.  There are way too many ISP’s still with their 
head in the sand with this …

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 9:29 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] What you need to know about IPv6 in 2016 not same Matt

 

http://www.networkworld.com/article/301/internet-of-things/what-you-need-to-know-about-ipv6-in-2016.html?google_editors_picks=true

Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

[Josh Baird]

I'm not exactly sure.  Somebody posted this on Facebook.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:21 AM, David Milholen  wrote:

> Josh,
>  Where and what are the parts used in this pic?
>
>
> On 1/3/2016 9:15 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> You could do something like this.  The model pictured is a 1036.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Looks like I remembered wrong, 125 watts, $3050.
>> http://routerboard.com/CCR1072-1G-8Splus
>>
>>
>> *From:* Scott Vander Dussen 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 10:08 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>>
>> Close, it's the 256 core version is 72W, $895 MSRP.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> `S
>>
>> ---
>> Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:59, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> The 72 core version is something like 250 watts, isn’t it?
>>
>> *From:* Scott Vander Dussen 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:55 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>>
>> Well, it doesn't have PoE in, but I also don't have a PoE device there,
>> it's just the CCR1016-12S-1S+ by itself.  But you're right, even
>> 802.11at or PoE+ only supports 30W. This must he why MT does not support
>> PoE-in on the higher-end CCRs.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> 'S
>>
>> Sent mobile!
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:47, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Max power consumption 44 watts, so I guess you could power it via POE,
>> but it would have to be a high power POE.
>>
>> *From:* Scott Vander Dussen 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:37 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>>
>> No copper ports, all SFP.  :/
>>
>> Instead of including a "free" copper transceiver I'd prefer one of the
>> ports as PoE-in copper like most of their other products.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> `S
>>
>> ---
>> Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:27, TJ Trout < t...@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>
>> feed it poe
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:22 PM, George Skorup < 
>> geo...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh look, a new product! And MikroTik still didn't listen. Seriously, how
>>> f'n hard is it to listen to your customers for one, and two, at least make
>>> it easy to run these things straight off of DC.
>>>
>>> I have a 1016-12S-1S+ for a fiber project. It's pretty nice with the
>>> redundant power supplies. And if this project called for a DC plant, I'd be
>>> using something else.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm sure you could rip the AC-DC power supplies out and wire it
>>> up how you want. Or drill a couple holes and put some of those banana plug
>>> terminal things in I suppose. Too much work for me.
>>>
>>> On 1/2/2016 5:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:
>>>
>>> With a +48vdc power source would it make sense to power a
>>> CCR1016-12S-1S+  by opening
>>> the case, bypassing the AC power supplies, and connecting a TRACO Power TCL
>>> 060-124
>>> 
>>> directly to the routerboard?  Is there an easier more efficient way?
>>> Trying to avoid using AC at all, thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] What you need to know about IPv6 in 2016 not same Matt

[Paul Stewart]

Yeah that’s true… for ISP’s that provide routers to customers then they need to 
support it too … but I don’t see that as a major stumbling block (although a 
lot of consumer routers are complete crap) … 

 

This started with ISP’s blaming content providers for not having enough IPv6 
reachable sites .. the major content providers all stepped up and became IPv6 
reachable… now it’s back to the ISP’s in my opinion…

 

Here in Canada, my $$$job is one of the few ISP’s doing IPv6 on scale and it’s 
a sad situation 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 9:37 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What you need to know about IPv6 in 2016 not same Matt

 

I think this goes hand-in-hand with ISP provided routers.  I would not want to 
deal with IPv6 and bring-your-own-router.

 

 

From:   Paul Stewart 

Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:13 AM

To:   af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What you need to know about IPv6 in 2016 not same Matt

 

Not really a great article in my opinion but at least Matt pushed on the fact 
that IPv6 adoption is important.  There are way too many ISP’s still with their 
head in the sand with this …

 

 

From: Af [  mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 9:29 PM
To: Animal Farm <  af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] What you need to know about IPv6 in 2016 not same Matt

 

http://www.networkworld.com/article/301/internet-of-things/what-you-need-to-know-about-ipv6-in-2016.html?google_editors_picks=true

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Chuck McCown]

I never went to 40 unless it was against a building with brackets. 
Otherwise 20 feet was my unguyed limit.
I do think Rohn said you could do 40 but I don't know how much wind loading 
area  you could add.


-Original Message- 
From: Jay Weekley

Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:36 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for
un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard is
40 feet. Is this true? 

[AFMUG] Wi-Fi "HaLow" 802.11ah

[Rory McCann]

Not sure if this has been discussed here yet or not:
http://www.wi-fi.org/news-events/newsroom/wi-fi-alliance-introduces-low-power-long-range-wi-fi-halow

New Wi-Fi standard using 900MHz. Can't imagine anyone serving customers 
using that band being excited about this one.


--
Rory McCann
MKAP Technology Solutions
Web: www.mkap.net

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Adam Moffett]

Maybe 40' with nothing on it.  Or 40' bracketed.

I'm pretty sure Rohn has the guidelines on their website.  I seem to 
think it's in either the construction drawings or brochure for the type 
of tower.




On 1/4/2016 10:42 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:


40 foot would be high on 25G..

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Jan 4, 2016 10:36 AM, "Jay Weekley" > wrote:


Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for
un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've
heard is 40 feet. Is this true?

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Josh Reynolds]

That's... So stone age. Argh :/
On Jan 4, 2016 9:56 AM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:

> Not my problem, just trying to be helpful.  They wanted to just cancel the
> internet to fix the problem.
>
> On 1/4/2016 9:53 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:
>
>> Honestly - why is this your problem as the ISP?
>>
>> With a VPN in the mix, it will definitely create some challenges
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:43 AM
>> To: Animal Farm 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn
>>
>> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
>> house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
>> Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
>> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
>> computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able
>> to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
>> want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
>> connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[Josh Reynolds]

Boy, starting out 2016 optimistically, aren't we? :)
On Jan 4, 2016 9:53 AM, "David"  wrote:

> I figure Cambium (WINK WINK) would be working a neat open free tool like
> this to help with the e400 and hotspot gear
>
>
> On 01/04/2016 09:30 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> I feel like this comes up every 3 months.
>
> Check the archive?
> On Jan 4, 2016 9:27 AM, "David"  wrote:
>
>> What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[Super WISP]

We do free evaluations Dave if you would like us to do that for you.

Mark Chamerlik
WAV®, Inc
Strategic Account Manager East Coast
630-818-1004 Direct
815-822-4490 Cell Phone
630-818-4450 Fax

ma...@wavonline.com (OR URGENT NEEDS TO 
tea...@wavonline.com)
[Description: twitter-logo-100x100.png] 
[Description: fb-logo-100x100.png] 


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 9:28 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?

--
[cid:image003.jpg@01D146D5.173BFA00]



This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and
exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is
not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of
the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
immediately by telephone at 630-818-1000.

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Ken Hohhof]

Low tech solution:  put the computer where you can see it.


-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 9:42 AM 
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn 

We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their 
house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN 
Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing 
any content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on 
the computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would 
be able to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting 
what they want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s 
queue on their connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?

Re: [AFMUG] What you need to know about IPv6 in 2016 not same Matt

[Ken Hohhof]

I think this goes hand-in-hand with ISP provided routers.  I would not want to 
deal with IPv6 and bring-your-own-router.


From: Paul Stewart 
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:13 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What you need to know about IPv6 in 2016 not same Matt

Not really a great article in my opinion but at least Matt pushed on the fact 
that IPv6 adoption is important.  There are way too many ISP’s still with their 
head in the sand with this …

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 9:29 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] What you need to know about IPv6 in 2016 not same Matt

 

http://www.networkworld.com/article/301/internet-of-things/what-you-need-to-know-about-ipv6-in-2016.html?google_editors_picks=true

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik x86 and ROS 6.x problems on 100M Ethernet links

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Is it not possible to tell which chipset is being used by looking at that 
System/Resources/PCI ? 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Justin Wilson" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 11:00:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik x86 and ROS 6.x problems on 100M Ethernet links

> Ask Brian from Baltic what chipset is in these? We had problems with the 
> earlier
> versions of these. It boils down to the intel chipset used. Had the same exact
> problem.

> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net

> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

> http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman

>> On Jan 1, 2016, at 2:32 PM, Kevin Radunz < gol...@genevaonline.com > wrote:
>> I think some weard problems started around 6.33. There are posts of
>> different topics about things like Winbox and VPN traffic not working but
>> traffic through the device was fine. Some thought MTU changes but I'm not
>> sure I saw concrete fixes. I know earlier versions don't do this.

>>> I recently upgraded one of those RouterMaxx 1106 routers from 5.2 to
>>> 6.33.1
>>> (I actually configured a new router and swapped hardware). Ever since, I
>>> have had performance problems with a couple ports that are connected to
>>> radios with 100M Ethernet ports. The most obvious symptom is that Winbox
>>> won't stay connected or can't download plugins, but I also see pings
>>> dropped
>>> even to the directly connected equipment.

>>> I was a bad boy making multiple changes at once, so I've been gradually
>>> walking them back in the lab on the original router, I upgraded it to
>>> 6.33.1
>>> and the problem appeared. I dropped back to 6.31 and it was still there,
>>> but when I dropped back to 5.26 everything was fine again. I haven't
>>> tried
>>> earlier 6.x versions yet, 6.31 is the oldest x86 version I have handy.
>>> This
>>> is not a radio problem, I can reproduce it with a directly connected
>>> laptop
>>> if I force the laptop NIC to 100M FDX.

>>> Is anyone familiar with this problem? I can't find anything on the
>>> Mikrotik
>>> forums. I guess I can live with 5.26 if I have to, but I'd like to know
>>> what is causing this. Do I just need to change some configuration
>>> parameter? I know 6.x brought out hardware only queues, but I think
>>> that's
>>> for Routerboards, not x86. Is there a problem with the Intel NIC drivers
>>> included with 6.x? Any chance that an earlier or later version of 6.x
>>> will
>>> work for me? I see nothing in the change logs about it.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik x86 and ROS 6.x problems on 100M Ethernet links

[Ken Hohhof]

Doing it that way, I see:

1 x 82574L
5 x 82583V

That’s also what the Lanner spec sheet says:
http://www.lannerinc.com/download-center/User-Manuals/All-Purpose-Box-Computers/?download=1542

I will have to test Ethernet port 1 to see if it acts differently.


From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 9:13 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik x86 and ROS 6.x problems on 100M Ethernet links

Is it not possible to tell which chipset is being used by looking at that 
System/Resources/PCI ?

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "Justin Wilson" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 11:00:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik x86 and ROS 6.x problems on 100M Ethernet links

  Ask Brian from Baltic what chipset is in these? We had problems with the 
earlier versions of these.  It boils down to the intel chipset used.  Had the 
same exact problem.   

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

On Jan 1, 2016, at 2:32 PM, Kevin Radunz  wrote:
I think some weard problems started around 6.33. There are posts of
different topics about things like Winbox and VPN traffic not working but
traffic through the device was fine.  Some thought MTU changes but I'm not
sure I saw concrete fixes.  I know earlier versions don't do this.



  I recently upgraded one of those RouterMaxx 1106 routers from 5.2 to
  6.33.1
  (I actually configured a new router and swapped hardware).  Ever since, I
  have had performance problems with a couple ports that are connected to
  radios with 100M Ethernet ports.  The most obvious symptom is that Winbox
  won't stay connected or can't download plugins, but I also see pings
  dropped
  even to the directly connected equipment.

  I was a bad boy making multiple changes at once, so I've been gradually
  walking them back in the lab on the original router, I upgraded it to
  6.33.1
  and the problem appeared.  I dropped back to 6.31 and it was still there,
  but when I dropped back to 5.26 everything was fine again.  I haven't
  tried
  earlier 6.x versions yet, 6.31 is the oldest x86 version I have handy.
  This
  is not a radio problem, I can reproduce it with a directly connected
  laptop
  if I force the laptop NIC to 100M FDX.

  Is anyone familiar with this problem?  I can't find anything on the
  Mikrotik
  forums.  I guess I can live with 5.26 if I have to, but I'd like to know
  what is causing this.  Do I just need to change some configuration
  parameter?  I know 6.x brought out hardware only queues, but I think
  that's
  for Routerboards, not x86.  Is there a problem with the Intel NIC drivers
  included with 6.x?  Any chance that an earlier or later version of 6.x
  will
  work for me?  I see nothing in the change logs about it.

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Josh Luthman]

VPN hides the traffic, so anything in it is getting through.  Could you do
1kbps for all VPN traffic?

Block porn with opendns and drop DNS to anything else?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 4, 2016 10:42 AM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:

> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
> house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
> Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
> computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able
> to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
> want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
> connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream

[Josh Reynolds]

Just for confirmation, this is on the gpon version? Now I'm wondering what
other prices you are getting...

Can you hit me up off list?
On Jan 4, 2016 7:47 AM, "Craig Schmaderer"  wrote:

> Just hit up your sales manager.  We buy them with 5 year warranties at
> $179.  So far best $150 home routers we have used.
>
> Craig schmaderer
> Skywave Wireless, Inc.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 10:03 PM -0800, "Josh Reynolds" <
> j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>
> Interesting. I'm curious why our price on the gpon version is $244/ea then.
> On Jan 1, 2016 10:41 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:
>
>> It's the 844E copper Ethernet version.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>>> Wait, are these the gpon gigacenters, 802.11AC, beamforming?
>>> On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett"  wrote:
>>>
 I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we
 are paying nowhere near what you are stating here.

 We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for
 500 users.

 We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed
 wifi" service.  ROI is ~4months/client.

  So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487.

 Sean


 On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished
> basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or
> sheetrock wall in my home.
>
> I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and
> account number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon
> router, and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is
> okay, but procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data
> monitoring for customer troubleshooting).
>
> Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month
> like calix does.
> On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
>> Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”.  I suspect
>> that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more
>> than 1 access point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and
>> beamforming technology.  Especially the way some customers resist 
>> locating
>> the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at
>> wires”.
>>
>> Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10
>> gigabit Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open 
>> in
>> 10 or 20 years to rewire.  If rooms are designed with places for “network
>> boxes” and fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can
>> be upgraded as technology evolves.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
>>
>> https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html
>>
>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
>>
>>
>> Ok, do you have a link to information then?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve
>> heard of them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, I’m lazy J
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
>>
>>
>>
>> $149
>>
>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> For $200?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:
>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] *On Behalf Of *Sean
>> Heskett
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM
>> *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
>>
>>
>>
>> Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson <
>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sterl...@avative.net');> wrote:
>>
>> I hear you.
>>
>> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
>>
>> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
>>
>> I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding
>> that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC
>> router and place it in the center of the house.
>>
>> What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the
>> head/basement, and wireless 

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Nate Burke]

Not my problem, just trying to be helpful.  They wanted to just cancel 
the internet to fix the problem.


On 1/4/2016 9:53 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:

Honestly - why is this your problem as the ISP?

With a VPN in the mix, it will definitely create some challenges

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:43 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their house.  
The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN Services.  Is 
there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any content filtering 
wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the computer behind the router. 
 Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able to bypass.  Is there any way to 
stop a tech person from getting what they want?  Right now our only thought is 
to put in like a 10k/s queue on their connection during the overnight hours.  
Other options?

Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC

[Joe Novak]

This was my round about plan to it. If you open the box it's only a few
screws to remove the power supply. From there we where able to plug in
directly to the board at 24v. I tested with a 5 AMP AD-155B because that is
what I had around. I can try to clamp it with my amp meter but I am almost
positive it pulls less then a amp idling so it would not be worth it. I
highly recommend fusing it low (maybe a couple of amps) to be safe.



On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> You could do something like this.  The model pictured is a 1036.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Looks like I remembered wrong, 125 watts, $3050.
>> http://routerboard.com/CCR1072-1G-8Splus
>>
>>
>> *From:* Scott Vander Dussen 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 10:08 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>>
>> Close, it's the 256 core version is 72W, $895 MSRP.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> `S
>>
>> ---
>> Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:59, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> The 72 core version is something like 250 watts, isn’t it?
>>
>> *From:* Scott Vander Dussen 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:55 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>>
>> Well, it doesn't have PoE in, but I also don't have a PoE device there,
>> it's just the CCR1016-12S-1S+ by itself.  But you're right, even
>> 802.11at or PoE+ only supports 30W. This must he why MT does not support
>> PoE-in on the higher-end CCRs.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> 'S
>>
>> Sent mobile!
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:47, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Max power consumption 44 watts, so I guess you could power it via POE,
>> but it would have to be a high power POE.
>>
>> *From:* Scott Vander Dussen 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:37 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] +48VDC to 24VDC
>>
>> No copper ports, all SFP.  :/
>>
>> Instead of including a "free" copper transceiver I'd prefer one of the
>> ports as PoE-in copper like most of their other products.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> `S
>>
>> ---
>> Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 16:27, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>> feed it poe
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:22 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>>
>>> Oh look, a new product! And MikroTik still didn't listen. Seriously, how
>>> f'n hard is it to listen to your customers for one, and two, at least make
>>> it easy to run these things straight off of DC.
>>>
>>> I have a 1016-12S-1S+ for a fiber project. It's pretty nice with the
>>> redundant power supplies. And if this project called for a DC plant, I'd be
>>> using something else.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm sure you could rip the AC-DC power supplies out and wire it
>>> up how you want. Or drill a couple holes and put some of those banana plug
>>> terminal things in I suppose. Too much work for me.
>>>
>>> On 1/2/2016 5:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:
>>>
>>> With a +48vdc power source would it make sense to power a
>>> CCR1016-12S-1S+  by opening
>>> the case, bypassing the AC power supplies, and connecting a TRACO Power TCL
>>> 060-124
>>> 
>>> directly to the routerboard?  Is there an easier more efficient way?
>>> Trying to avoid using AC at all, thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

[AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[David]

What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?


--

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[Josh Reynolds]

I feel like this comes up every 3 months.

Check the archive?
On Jan 4, 2016 9:27 AM, "David"  wrote:

> What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?
>
>
> --
>

[AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Jay Weekley]

Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for 
un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard is 
40 feet. Is this true?

[AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Nate Burke]

We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their 
house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN 
Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing 
any content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on 
the computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would 
be able to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting 
what they want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s 
queue on their connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Josh Luthman]

40 foot would be high on 25G..

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 4, 2016 10:36 AM, "Jay Weekley"  wrote:

> Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for un-guyed
> Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard is 40 feet. Is
> this true?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Josh Reynolds]

He can probably shift quite a few ports/methods around, or create vpns he
controls to amazon., etc. Or Tor. Etc etc for every solution you come up
with, there's a way around it.

Also, this is a social/hr "issue". Treat it as such.
On Jan 4, 2016 9:45 AM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> VPN hides the traffic, so anything in it is getting through.  Could you do
> 1kbps for all VPN traffic?
>
> Block porn with opendns and drop DNS to anything else?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Jan 4, 2016 10:42 AM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:
>
>> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
>> house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
>> Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
>> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
>> computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able
>> to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
>> want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
>> connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Chuck McCown]

Add a keystroke logger to their computer.
Public shaming or cutting the wires are the only two options that are 
practical.


I presume there is somekind of crippled browser that only allows whitelisted 
sites and the computer is locked down such that you can only use that 
browser and nothing else would do the trick.  But if the house has wifi and 
the other people in the house want a bit of freedom, I can't imagine a 
solution.


Perhaps an HDMI splitter so the monitor is displayed in multiple places in 
the home...


Kinda like stopping an alcoholic from getting a drink.
Handcuffs and jail are about the only thing that works there.

-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke

Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:42 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing
any content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on
the computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would
be able to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting
what they want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s
queue on their connection during the overnight hours.  Other options? 

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Adam Moffett]

I wonder if the kid has a real problem or if it's just a battle of wills 
with his parents.  I used to do stuff specifically because I was told 
not to.  ( Sometimes maybe I still do )




On 1/4/2016 10:56 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
Not my problem, just trying to be helpful.  They wanted to just cancel 
the internet to fix the problem.


On 1/4/2016 9:53 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:

Honestly - why is this your problem as the ISP?

With a VPN in the mix, it will definitely create some challenges

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:43 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their 
house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using 
VPN Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm 
guessing any content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is 
terminating on the computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS 
Block they would be able to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech 
person from getting what they want?  Right now our only thought is to 
put in like a 10k/s queue on their connection during the overnight 
hours. Other options?

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Chuck McCown]

Or is it a wife that thinks her husband should have no interest in such 
things...


-Original Message- 
From: Adam Moffett

Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 9:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

I wonder if the kid has a real problem or if it's just a battle of wills
with his parents.  I used to do stuff specifically because I was told
not to.  ( Sometimes maybe I still do )



On 1/4/2016 10:56 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
Not my problem, just trying to be helpful.  They wanted to just cancel the 
internet to fix the problem.


On 1/4/2016 9:53 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:

Honestly - why is this your problem as the ISP?

With a VPN in the mix, it will definitely create some challenges

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:43 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their 
house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN 
Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any 
content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the 
computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be 
able to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what 
they want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on 
their connection during the overnight hours. Other options?

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Josh Reynolds]

I find your suggestion repulsive, but applaud you for stating personal
proclivities in a public forum.

It's a brave new world this 2016.
On Jan 4, 2016 10:13 AM, "Simon Westlake"  wrote:

> Superglue sandpaper to hands.
> On Jan 4, 2016 10:10 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
>> Or s/he's just a normal person that has raging hormones and likes to see
>> genitals and beautiful people doing enjoyable things.
>>
>> There's always LTE, or the friends house.
>> On Jan 4, 2016 10:07 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if the kid has a real problem or if it's just a battle of wills
>>> with his parents.  I used to do stuff specifically because I was told not
>>> to.  ( Sometimes maybe I still do )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/4/2016 10:56 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
>>>
 Not my problem, just trying to be helpful.  They wanted to just cancel
 the internet to fix the problem.

 On 1/4/2016 9:53 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:

> Honestly - why is this your problem as the ISP?
>
> With a VPN in the mix, it will definitely create some challenges
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:43 AM
> To: Animal Farm 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn
>
> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
> house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
> Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
> computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be 
> able
> to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
> want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
> connection during the overnight hours. Other options?
>


>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Fortigate is a good all in one solution for this, the problem being it
requires a tech savvy person to operate it. they have made the
management/cloud interface alot more consumer friendly.

Alot depends on how tech savvy the person actually is, if theyre just
downloading some 3rd party tools for circumvention, theyre not savvy theyre
just good at google.

I would assume if anyone on this list wanted to get to some porn, we could,
regardless of the tools put in place, look at the nonsense we pull anytime
we get on the wireless at an event or motel, we are all dicks. If hes like
us, its pointless to try, it will just ultimately adversely affect the rest
of the users while he goes about his business.

The next big thing to address would be is how much the person wants to pay
for managing it. Its not a set and forget scenario, he will continue
looking for chinks in the armor.

If its a bad enough issue, it may be better just to provide some contact
information for some mental health professionals because there may be
something deeper at play. Those kinds of addictions, while fun to joke
about, can be very destructive, and have a real potential to bleed over
into others lives with horrible outcomes like molestation and rape. It
could be that blocking access to the perversion could lead to the
individual seeking out pleasures in the flesh instead of releasing the
beast digitally.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Which does nothing for ptp or bittorrent.  Certainly doesn't apply to
> someone using a VPN.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>> Barracuda Web Filter.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 9:30 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn
>>
>>
>>
>> We used Lightspeed solutions at district but pricey.Untangle is free
>> and full version is low cost..
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2016 8:42 AM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:
>>
>> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
>> house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
>> Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
>> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
>> computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able
>> to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
>> want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
>> connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?
>>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Paul Stewart]

Honestly - why is this your problem as the ISP?

With a VPN in the mix, it will definitely create some challenges 

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:43 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their house.  
The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN Services.  Is 
there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any content filtering 
wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the computer behind the router. 
 Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able to bypass.  Is there any way to 
stop a tech person from getting what they want?  Right now our only thought is 
to put in like a 10k/s queue on their connection during the overnight hours.  
Other options?

Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Heat Mapping software

[David]

I figure Cambium (WINK WINK) would be working a neat open free tool like 
this to help with the e400 and hotspot gear



On 01/04/2016 09:30 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


I feel like this comes up every 3 months.

Check the archive?

On Jan 4, 2016 9:27 AM, "David" > wrote:


What is everyone using for in building heat mapping tools?


-- 

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Only way I can think of is to get rid of internet entirely.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 10:53 AM, Paul Stewart  wrote:
> 
> Honestly - why is this your problem as the ISP?
> 
> With a VPN in the mix, it will definitely create some challenges 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:43 AM
> To: Animal Farm 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn
> 
> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their house.  
> The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN Services.  
> Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any content 
> filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the computer behind 
> the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able to bypass.  Is 
> there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they want?  Right now 
> our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their connection during 
> the overnight hours.  Other options?
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Josh Reynolds]

Or s/he's just a normal person that has raging hormones and likes to see
genitals and beautiful people doing enjoyable things.

There's always LTE, or the friends house.
On Jan 4, 2016 10:07 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> I wonder if the kid has a real problem or if it's just a battle of wills
> with his parents.  I used to do stuff specifically because I was told not
> to.  ( Sometimes maybe I still do )
>
>
>
> On 1/4/2016 10:56 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
>> Not my problem, just trying to be helpful.  They wanted to just cancel
>> the internet to fix the problem.
>>
>> On 1/4/2016 9:53 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:
>>
>>> Honestly - why is this your problem as the ISP?
>>>
>>> With a VPN in the mix, it will definitely create some challenges
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>>> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:43 AM
>>> To: Animal Farm 
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn
>>>
>>> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
>>> house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
>>> Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
>>> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
>>> computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able
>>> to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
>>> want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
>>> connection during the overnight hours. Other options?
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Rory Conaway]

Barracuda Web Filter.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 9:30 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn


We used Lightspeed solutions at district but pricey.Untangle is free and 
full version is low cost..
On Jan 4, 2016 8:42 AM, "Nate Burke" 
> wrote:
We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their house.  
The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN Services.  Is 
there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any content filtering 
wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the computer behind the router. 
 Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able to bypass.  Is there any way to 
stop a tech person from getting what they want?  Right now our only thought is 
to put in like a 10k/s queue on their connection during the overnight hours.  
Other options?

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[George Skorup]

Up to 40 feet free-standing for 25G. And 45 feet for 45G. 1.5 and 2.3 sq 
ft max wind loading. Pretty much useless.


6.4 sq ft for 25G at 30 feet. Not bad, but I still wouldn't do free 
standing. I have a 40' 25G bracketed at 16 feet at my house. It has my 
3.6 450 SM on a reflector near the top. It moves quite a bit in the 
wind. I've already had to replace several bolts that worked their way loose.


On 1/4/2016 9:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I never went to 40 unless it was against a building with brackets. 
Otherwise 20 feet was my unguyed limit.
I do think Rohn said you could do 40 but I don't know how much wind 
loading area  you could add.


-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:36 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for
un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard is
40 feet. Is this true?

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Bill Prince]

Depends on the wind loading. If you have anything more than a skinny 
omni on 25G, I would guy anything above 20'. IOW, no more than 20 feet 
un-guyed. 45G; probably 30'.


bp


On 1/4/2016 7:36 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for 
un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard is 
40 feet. Is this true?

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Ken Hohhof]

If this is an actual porn addiction, it is like any other addiction.  Not going 
to solve it by just installing an app.

Addiction though means it is compulsive and interfering with normal life.  Not 
just doing something that someone else objects to.

Something I consider a red flag is when I see hours of traffic per day to sex 
cam sites.

My wife on the other hand is addicted to www.cuteoverload.com.  Is there a 12 
step program for cat video addiction?


From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 10:29 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

We used Lightspeed solutions at district but pricey.Untangle is free and 
full version is low cost..

On Jan 4, 2016 8:42 AM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:

  We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their house.  
The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN Services.  Is 
there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any content filtering 
wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the computer behind the router. 
 Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able to bypass.  Is there any way to 
stop a tech person from getting what they want?  Right now our only thought is 
to put in like a 10k/s queue on their connection during the overnight hours.  
Other options?

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Jaime Solorza]

Use  free standing series from Rohn or Trylonwe saw two model 45
erected side to side with unistrut to join then face to face.   About 80
ft. High with stadium lights and an VHF omni on top.  Looked beefy with a
nice size pad

On Jan 4, 2016 8:36 AM, "Jay Weekley"  wrote:

> Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for un-guyed
> Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard is 40 feet. Is
> this true?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Bill Prince]

That's something that I would have expected from Steve...

bp


On 1/4/2016 8:13 AM, Simon Westlake wrote:


Superglue sandpaper to hands.

On Jan 4, 2016 10:10 AM, "Josh Reynolds" > wrote:


Or s/he's just a normal person that has raging hormones and likes
to see genitals and beautiful people doing enjoyable things.

There's always LTE, or the friends house.

On Jan 4, 2016 10:07 AM, "Adam Moffett" > wrote:

I wonder if the kid has a real problem or if it's just a
battle of wills with his parents.  I used to do stuff
specifically because I was told not to.  ( Sometimes maybe I
still do )



On 1/4/2016 10:56 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

Not my problem, just trying to be helpful.  They wanted to
just cancel the internet to fix the problem.

On 1/4/2016 9:53 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:

Honestly - why is this your problem as the ISP?

With a VPN in the mix, it will definitely create some
challenges

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:43 AM
To: Animal Farm >
Subject: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block
porn from their house.  The person who has the
'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN Services. Is
there any way to block someone like this?  I'm
guessing any content filtering wouldn't work because
the VPN is terminating on the computer behind the
router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be
able to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech
person from getting what they want?  Right now our
only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
connection during the overnight hours. Other options?

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Ken Hohhof]

Just saying I thought on a Rohn SSV once you got to the upper sections 1-5 they 
were straight and all the same face width, but actually there’s a bit of taper 
to them.

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 4:31 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

oh okay ...i was going to say that is a Bozo no no

Jaime Solorza 
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

  I think he's talking about mounting radios directly on the tower legs, using 
the radio's mount built in elevation adjustment, rather than a standoff mount 
which is normally needed on a tapering self supporting tower.


  On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

humm?  are you suggesting mating two different model towers?   


Jaime Solorza 
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Somone pointed out to me that the top sections of an SSV are ALMOST 
straight, not quite.  Close enough for government work though.

  -Original Message- From: Daniel White
  Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 3:40 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

  What about Rohn 55, 65, etc.  You can even get creative and use the top 
50ft of a self supporter where it is straight so the legs are much further 
apart. I like those towers.

  Thank you,

  Daniel White
  afmu...@gmail.com
  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
  Skype: danieldwhite
  Social: LinkedIn: Twitter


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower


Yeah, I forgot about needing to be bracketed to a building to get over
20 feet.  Back to the drawing board.

Bill Prince wrote:
> Depends on the wind loading. If you have anything more than a skinny
> omni on 25G, I would guy anything above 20'. IOW, no more than 20 feet
> un-guyed. 45G; probably 30'.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 1/4/2016 7:36 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>> Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for
>> un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard
>> is 40 feet. Is this true?
>
>
>




  ---
  This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
  https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Josh Luthman]

Start a VM would be the easiest way around that...assuming he's reasonably
competent.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 4, 2016 12:34 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> Josh, the Barracuda can block by category and by application.  In the case
> of VPN’s, we block those also and ask the customer to call us if they need
> one.  If they don’t like the service, they can always go to Comcast or
> CenturyLink.  In this case though, it looks like the homeowner wants
> service and just needs to stop someone inside.  In that case, you put the
> IP address under these restrictions.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 9:47 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn
>
>
>
> Which does nothing for ptp or bittorrent.  Certainly doesn't apply to
> someone using a VPN.
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
> Barracuda Web Filter.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 9:30 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn
>
>
>
> We used Lightspeed solutions at district but pricey.Untangle is free
> and full version is low cost..
>
> On Jan 4, 2016 8:42 AM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:
>
> We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their
> house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN
> Services.  Is there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any
> content filtering wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the
> computer behind the router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able
> to bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting what they
> want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like a 10k/s queue on their
> connection during the overnight hours.  Other options?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Rory Conaway]

Josh, the Barracuda can block by category and by application.  In the case of 
VPN’s, we block those also and ask the customer to call us if they need one.  
If they don’t like the service, they can always go to Comcast or CenturyLink.  
In this case though, it looks like the homeowner wants service and just needs 
to stop someone inside.  In that case, you put the IP address under these 
restrictions.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 9:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

Which does nothing for ptp or bittorrent.  Certainly doesn't apply to someone 
using a VPN.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
Barracuda Web Filter.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 9:30 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn


We used Lightspeed solutions at district but pricey.Untangle is free and 
full version is low cost..
On Jan 4, 2016 8:42 AM, "Nate Burke" 
> wrote:
We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from their house.  
The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy, and is using VPN Services.  Is 
there any way to block someone like this?  I'm guessing any content filtering 
wouldn't work because the VPN is terminating on the computer behind the router. 
 Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able to bypass.  Is there any way to 
stop a tech person from getting what they want?  Right now our only thought is 
to put in like a 10k/s queue on their connection during the overnight hours.  
Other options?

Re: [AFMUG] Blocking Tech Savvy person from Porn

[Craig Baird]

It depends on just how tech savvy the person is.  We had a similar  
situation a while back.  Customer's kid was using VPNs to bypass  
whatever controls the customer had in place.  We sold the customer a  
Mikrotik, and set it up to block the standard VPN ports.  Problem  
solved--at least so far.  The kid wasn't tech savvy enough to  
circumvent that.  Obviously, that could change.


Craig


Quoting Nate Burke :

That was my thought, there's always a way around. Where there's a  
will, there's a way.


On 1/4/2016 9:50 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


He can probably shift quite a few ports/methods around, or create  
vpns he controls to amazon., etc. Or Tor. Etc etc for every  
solution you come up with, there's a way around it.


Also, this is a social/hr "issue". Treat it as such.

On Jan 4, 2016 9:45 AM, "Josh Luthman" > wrote:


   VPN hides the traffic, so anything in it is getting through.  
Could you do 1kbps for all VPN traffic?


   Block porn with opendns and drop DNS to anything else?

   Josh Luthman
   Office: 937-552-2340 
   Direct: 937-552-2343 
   1100 Wayne St
   Suite 1337
   Troy, OH 45373

   On Jan 4, 2016 10:42 AM, "Nate Burke" > wrote:

   We're dealing with a customer who is trying to block porn from
   their house.  The person who has the 'problem' is tech savvy,
   and is using VPN Services.  Is there any way to block someone
   like this?  I'm guessing any content filtering wouldn't work
   because the VPN is terminating on the computer behind the
   router.  Any sort of IP or DNS Block they would be able to
   bypass.  Is there any way to stop a tech person from getting
   what they want?  Right now our only thought is to put in like
   a 10k/s queue on their connection during the overnight  
hours. Other options?

Re: [AFMUG] Un-guyed tower

[Jay Weekley]

Yeah, I forgot about needing to be bracketed to a building to get over 
20 feet.  Back to the drawing board.


Bill Prince wrote:
Depends on the wind loading. If you have anything more than a skinny 
omni on 25G, I would guy anything above 20'. IOW, no more than 20 feet 
un-guyed. 45G; probably 30'.


bp


On 1/4/2016 7:36 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
Just for clarification, what are the maximum heights, if any, for 
un-guyed Rohn 25 and 45 style tower sections?  The rumor I've heard 
is 40 feet. Is this true?