Re: [AFMUG] Bridgewave Flex4g-Lite

[Daniel Gerlach]

no, they are now talking with the antenna manufacturer.

2017-09-28 17:29 GMT+02:00 Brough Turner :
> No answers?  Has anyone else tried the Flex4G-Lite???
>
> Dan, did you find the missing 5-7 dB?
>
> Bridgewave seems willing to undercut Siklu and it's 3/3 Gbps versus 2/2 Gbps
> for Siklu, so I'm planning my first such link for late October.
>
> Thanks,
> Brough
>
> Brough Turner
> netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
> Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
> netBlazr Inc. | Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Blog | Personal
> website
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Daniel Gerlach 
> wrote:
>>
>> Who is using this and give me some installations hints..5-7dBm are missing
>>
>> thx
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode

[Simon Westlake]

Redbull was never my caffeine of choice, it was Rockstar!

On Sep 28, 2017 8:58 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> Lmao
>
> On Sep 26, 2017 10:29 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
>> simon has aged a bit, and moved on from redbull
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:19 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> With sonar, wispmon, and powercode, I don't understand how they'll have
>>> time to maintain three code bases.
>>> Obviously Simon is the superhero I always thought he was
>>>
>>> I'd love to see that redbull fridge now
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Simon Westlake 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:30 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode
>>>
>>> Countdown until I get a call from my lawyers starts now..
>>>
>>> On 9/26/2017 9:28 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>
>>> A dangerous prank.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 9/26/2017 10:28:04 AM
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> Just wanted to get in front of this before anyone else does - Sonar has
>>> acquired PowerCode* (https://sonar.software/blog/2
>>> 017-09-26/our-acquisition-of-powercode) and we'll be reaching out to
>>> all the existing PowerCode customers today to discuss the transition
>>> process.
>>>
>>> We're very excited about this new step - Cameron and Georgette of
>>> PowerCode are both joining the Sonar team, and I'm confident they are both
>>> going to do great things. If you're currently using PowerCode, you'll
>>> receive a direct email shortly, and we'll be calling everyone as quickly as
>>> we can to discuss details.
>>>
>>> Cameron and Georgette will both be in Vegas with us in the Sonar booth
>>> as well, so please come by and say hi!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Simon Westlake
>>> Email: simon@sonar.software
>>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
>>> ---
>>> Sonar Software Inc
>>> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> * fake news generated by Chuck McCown to create some fun for the day...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Simon Westlake
>>> Email: simon@sonar.software
>>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
>>> ---
>>> Sonar Software Inc
>>> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Power Alternatives

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Can someone design you a quick to deploy solar power system w battery?  You'd 
need a system to protect it from theft too  



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Gino A. Villarini" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: [AFMUG] Power Alternatives
Date: Thu, Sep 28, 2017 8:39 PM

Diesel Supply is short, Gens and batts are being stolen at sites, I need 
alternatives! Fuel Cells? 







Gino A. Villarini



President


Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Mike Hammett]

Which is a point I've already made. 

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just asking, 
great. 
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they have to let you in 
unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.). 
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 1:22:48 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




If they don’t know BIAS is not really in play then once you get the permit you 
are golden. 
Cell phone providers are not CLECs and they get in all the same ROWs as the 
CLECS and ILECS. 

I have never ever had a permitting agency ask me how I had the right to ask for 
access. 

Moreover, crossing federal public lands, they cannot even charge you rent. That 
is by act of congress. And that applies to every person on this list. 

They just want drawings and money. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:16 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


Which is a point I've already made. 

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just asking, 
great. 
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they have to let you in 
unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.). 
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:57:41 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




No, I don’t have a CLEC for the non reg stuff. 

You always have to get permission from the property owner, it may be a public 
street but the city still has to grant an excavation or together permit. 

Many times there is a public utility easement around private property that you 
can occupy. 

The FCC made all BIAS providers public utilities in spirit. While that 
particular document may no longer be in effect, you can still point to the 
language and use it. If you get the permit you are golden. None of this 
requires a CLEC. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:04 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there. Most easements I get are free. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




CLEC is no insurance. 
ROW-Easement is insurance. 






From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 

Re: [AFMUG] Power Alternatives

[Jaime Solorza]

Tower guards also know as anti-climb shields.

On Sep 28, 2017 8:12 PM, "Jason Wilson"  wrote:

> Pay a guy to sit at the base of the tower with a shotgun.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 7:09 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
> Solar panels on towers, batteries in enclosures on towers, windmill
> generators on towers , all protected by tower guards...
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 8:01 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
> I'd think solar panels would be a bit less likely to be stolen, since your
> typical thief probably would know what to do with them, and they're
> bulky... I guess they'd still take the batteries though. But that's still
> not really an option until there's a way to get them on to the island
> anyway.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 8:45 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:
>
>> Do you have enough tower metal and a welder that you can weld together a
>> thick generator "cage" and bolt that to the outside of your tower
>> cabinets/sheds with one-way screws? Or (once transport works enough to get
>> solar panels) do the same to make solar panel cages?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Diesel Supply is short, Gens and batts are being stolen at sites, I need
>>> alternatives! Fuel Cells?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>>> President
>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Power Alternatives

[Steve Jones]

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Homemade-Battery
the icecube tray design might be scalable with seawater, galvanized tower
components from downed towers, and copper from downed lines. not sure how
many cells youd need to get the wattage or how long the zinc on galvanized
would be viable. Would be good busywork if youre otherwise idle while
waiting on supplies

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:12 PM, Jason Wilson 
wrote:

> Pay a guy to sit at the base of the tower with a shotgun.
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 7:09 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
> Solar panels on towers, batteries in enclosures on towers, windmill
> generators on towers , all protected by tower guards...
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 8:01 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
> I'd think solar panels would be a bit less likely to be stolen, since your
> typical thief probably would know what to do with them, and they're
> bulky... I guess they'd still take the batteries though. But that's still
> not really an option until there's a way to get them on to the island
> anyway.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 8:45 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:
>
>> Do you have enough tower metal and a welder that you can weld together a
>> thick generator "cage" and bolt that to the outside of your tower
>> cabinets/sheds with one-way screws? Or (once transport works enough to get
>> solar panels) do the same to make solar panel cages?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Diesel Supply is short, Gens and batts are being stolen at sites, I need
>>> alternatives! Fuel Cells?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>>> President
>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Power Alternatives

[Jaime Solorza]

Across the border on Cerro Bola where most TV, Radio , Law enforcement,
WISPs and two way radio towers are located , many have armed guards in huts
next to communication shelters to keep thieves from stealing gear.  Several
guards have killed thieves...some towers are booby trapped as well, killing
tower guys...

On Sep 28, 2017 8:12 PM, "Jason Wilson"  wrote:

Pay a guy to sit at the base of the tower with a shotgun.

On Sep 28, 2017 7:09 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

Solar panels on towers, batteries in enclosures on towers, windmill
generators on towers , all protected by tower guards...

On Sep 28, 2017 8:01 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

I'd think solar panels would be a bit less likely to be stolen, since your
typical thief probably would know what to do with them, and they're
bulky... I guess they'd still take the batteries though. But that's still
not really an option until there's a way to get them on to the island
anyway.

On Sep 28, 2017 8:45 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:

> Do you have enough tower metal and a welder that you can weld together a
> thick generator "cage" and bolt that to the outside of your tower
> cabinets/sheds with one-way screws? Or (once transport works enough to get
> solar panels) do the same to make solar panel cages?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> Diesel Supply is short, Gens and batts are being stolen at sites, I need
>> alternatives! Fuel Cells?
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Power Alternatives

[Jaime Solorza]

Solar panels on towers, batteries in enclosures on towers, windmill
generators on towers , all protected by tower guards...

On Sep 28, 2017 8:01 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

I'd think solar panels would be a bit less likely to be stolen, since your
typical thief probably would know what to do with them, and they're
bulky... I guess they'd still take the batteries though. But that's still
not really an option until there's a way to get them on to the island
anyway.

On Sep 28, 2017 8:45 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:

> Do you have enough tower metal and a welder that you can weld together a
> thick generator "cage" and bolt that to the outside of your tower
> cabinets/sheds with one-way screws? Or (once transport works enough to get
> solar panels) do the same to make solar panel cages?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> Diesel Supply is short, Gens and batts are being stolen at sites, I need
>> alternatives! Fuel Cells?
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Power Alternatives

[Steve Jones]

if you have alot of potatoes zinc and copper you can make power. that
example isnt probably realistic, but im guessing some folks here could come
up with some 5 gallon bucket chemical batteries. guys arent likely to walk
off with buckets of chemicals

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> I'd think solar panels would be a bit less likely to be stolen, since your
> typical thief probably would know what to do with them, and they're
> bulky... I guess they'd still take the batteries though. But that's still
> not really an option until there's a way to get them on to the island
> anyway.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 8:45 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:
>
>> Do you have enough tower metal and a welder that you can weld together a
>> thick generator "cage" and bolt that to the outside of your tower
>> cabinets/sheds with one-way screws? Or (once transport works enough to get
>> solar panels) do the same to make solar panel cages?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Diesel Supply is short, Gens and batts are being stolen at sites, I need
>>> alternatives! Fuel Cells?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>>> President
>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Power Alternatives

[Mathew Howard]

I'd think solar panels would be a bit less likely to be stolen, since your
typical thief probably would know what to do with them, and they're
bulky... I guess they'd still take the batteries though. But that's still
not really an option until there's a way to get them on to the island
anyway.

On Sep 28, 2017 8:45 PM, "Colin Stanners"  wrote:

> Do you have enough tower metal and a welder that you can weld together a
> thick generator "cage" and bolt that to the outside of your tower
> cabinets/sheds with one-way screws? Or (once transport works enough to get
> solar panels) do the same to make solar panel cages?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> Diesel Supply is short, Gens and batts are being stolen at sites, I need
>> alternatives! Fuel Cells?
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode

[Josh Reynolds]

Lmao

On Sep 26, 2017 10:29 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

> simon has aged a bit, and moved on from redbull
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:19 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> With sonar, wispmon, and powercode, I don't understand how they'll have
>> time to maintain three code bases.
>> Obviously Simon is the superhero I always thought he was
>>
>> I'd love to see that redbull fridge now
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Simon Westlake 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:30 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode
>>
>> Countdown until I get a call from my lawyers starts now..
>>
>> On 9/26/2017 9:28 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>
>> A dangerous prank.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 9/26/2017 10:28:04 AM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> Just wanted to get in front of this before anyone else does - Sonar has
>> acquired PowerCode* (https://sonar.software/blog/2
>> 017-09-26/our-acquisition-of-powercode) and we'll be reaching out to all
>> the existing PowerCode customers today to discuss the transition process.
>>
>> We're very excited about this new step - Cameron and Georgette of
>> PowerCode are both joining the Sonar team, and I'm confident they are both
>> going to do great things. If you're currently using PowerCode, you'll
>> receive a direct email shortly, and we'll be calling everyone as quickly as
>> we can to discuss details.
>>
>> Cameron and Georgette will both be in Vegas with us in the Sonar booth as
>> well, so please come by and say hi!
>>
>> --
>> Simon Westlake
>> Email: simon@sonar.software
>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
>> ---
>> Sonar Software Inc
>> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>>
>>
>>
>> * fake news generated by Chuck McCown to create some fun for the day...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Simon Westlake
>> Email: simon@sonar.software
>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
>> ---
>> Sonar Software Inc
>> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Power Alternatives

[Colin Stanners]

Do you have enough tower metal and a welder that you can weld together a
thick generator "cage" and bolt that to the outside of your tower
cabinets/sheds with one-way screws? Or (once transport works enough to get
solar panels) do the same to make solar panel cages?



On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
wrote:

> Diesel Supply is short, Gens and batts are being stolen at sites, I need
> alternatives! Fuel Cells?
>
>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Power Alternatives

[Seth Mattinen]

On 9/28/17 18:39, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
Diesel Supply is short, Gens and batts are being stolen at sites, I need 
alternatives! Fuel Cells?



Give someone a pointy stick to hang out and let them charge their 
tablet/laptop/phone?


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Seth Mattinen]

On 9/28/17 18:28, George Skorup wrote:
I would expect a GigE radio to haul 9000+ byte frames, but you never 
know. So yeah, it needs to be on datasheets.



I agree but the MetroLinq, for example, can't do 9k frames. At least 
they told me it doesn't when I asked since it wasn't on the datasheet.


~Seth

[AFMUG] Power Alternatives

[Gino A. Villarini]

Diesel Supply is short, Gens and batts are being stolen at sites, I need 
alternatives! Fuel Cells?



Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

Re: [AFMUG] Pai is not getting the love

[Rory Conaway]

Ahh, a minion of T-Tommy Wheeler.  Awesome.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pai is not getting the love

She's hardly an advocate for Pai, very much the opposite in my opinion.

Regards,
Chuck

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Sean Heskett 
> wrote:
from the bottom of the article it says the author is...

"Gigi Sohn served as counselor to former FCC chairman Tom Wheeler from November 
2013 to December 2016."

so yeah of course she isn't going to like what Pai is doing lol

-Sean


On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:16 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp

Rory Conaway • Triad Wireless • CEO
4226 S. 37th Street 
• Phoenix • AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net
www.triadwireless.net

“A hot dog at the game beats roast beef at the Ritz.” — Humphrey Bogart

Re: [AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Jason, 

Would be best to coordinate thur Brian Webster. 

(He is working on multiple fronts, and also in regular communication with Gino) 

Gino does not have unfettered access to communications, he is coming up for 
'air' every now and then... if you know what I mean. 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Jason Wilson" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:15:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?

> Gino,. Email me privately, call me, text me find me on Facebook. I have some
> folks with federal and military contacts looking for a solution for you.

> Jason

> On Sep 28, 2017 2:34 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote:

>> have you talked to the air national guard? thats what my air force guy said 
>> to
>> do. I dont know if theyve been federalized or no, doesnt sound like they 
>> have,
>> so they may have a little more leniency in their discretion

>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 4:22 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote:

>>> Bruce, time to head to PR for a few weeks!
>>> From: Gino A. Villarini
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 3:20 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?
>>> Need to move gear! Not getting any help from FEMA or DHS

>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> President
>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[George Skorup]

I would expect a GigE radio to haul 9000+ byte frames, but you never 
know. So yeah, it needs to be on datasheets.


On 9/28/2017 8:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

so put it in the documentation, then... :-)



On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Chuck Macenski > wrote:


Hi,

Just to be official about is, all airFIber radios support
transport of Jumbo packets sizes of 9000+ bytes. The currently
supported packet size is 9600. There is no configuration required
- they just do it.

I am an Ubiquiti employee :)

Chuck

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Josh Reynolds
> wrote:

I'm not here for your approval friend!
Pal!
Buddy!

/smacks Mike on slack

On Sep 28, 2017 1:10 PM, "Mike Hammett" > wrote:

That's a much better statement.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 






*From: *"Josh Reynolds" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:54:43 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your
documentation of basic things!

I think you're thinking about this too hard, or maybe I
wasn't explicit enough. Typing from a phone causes that.

Yes, I'm staying if you are building the type of network
where you have identified a large MTU is desirable on the
L2 path, you want everything to be as high as possible,
and you will be limited by the devices smallest MTU on the
path.

On Sep 28, 2017 12:51 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"
> wrote:

no, it doesn't, only if you are building L2 networks
bridged between multiple locations. It's perfectly
fine to have a router-to-router OSPF /30 link that is
carried across a PTP system with a 1600 byte MTU
(older Bridgewave radios for instance), then another
separate set of OSPF interfaces onwards from that same
router, to another router, over a 9000 byte MTU radio
bridge. Or whatever.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM, Josh Reynolds
>
wrote:

MTU needs to be consistent on the entirety of the
path.

AirFiber supports 9600 MTU since 1.1 FW.

On Sep 28, 2017 12:35 PM, "Sterling Jacobson"
> wrote:

I agree, was just looking for that a week ago too.

I’m still unclear.

My backbone is generally set for 9000+ MTU.

Do I need to change my Mikrotik Ethernet ports
attached to the Air Fiber units to a specific MTU?

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of
*Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:34 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix
your documentation of basic things!

oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU
capabilities for any model of airfiber in the
most recent pdf datasheet either:

https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf



Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list?
Particularly for PTP bridge radios?  I know it
is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Eric Kuhnke]

so put it in the documentation, then... :-)



On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Chuck Macenski  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Just to be official about is, all airFIber radios support transport of
> Jumbo packets sizes of 9000+ bytes. The currently supported packet size is
> 9600. There is no configuration required - they just do it.
>
> I am an Ubiquiti employee :)
>
> Chuck
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm not here for your approval friend!
>> Pal!
>> Buddy!
>>
>> /smacks Mike on slack
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017 1:10 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>
>>> That's a much better statement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:54:43 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic
>>> things!
>>>
>>> I think you're thinking about this too hard, or maybe I wasn't explicit
>>> enough. Typing from a phone causes that.
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm staying if you are building the type of network where you have
>>> identified a large MTU is desirable on the L2 path, you want everything to
>>> be as high as possible, and you will be limited by the devices smallest MTU
>>> on the path.
>>>
>>> On Sep 28, 2017 12:51 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>>>
 no, it doesn't, only if you are building L2 networks bridged between
 multiple locations. It's perfectly fine to have a router-to-router OSPF /30
 link that is carried across a PTP system with a 1600 byte MTU (older
 Bridgewave radios for instance), then another separate set of OSPF
 interfaces onwards from that same router, to another router, over a 9000
 byte MTU radio bridge. Or whatever.


 On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM, Josh Reynolds 
 wrote:

> MTU needs to be consistent on the entirety of the path.
>
> AirFiber supports 9600 MTU since 1.1 FW.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 12:35 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
> wrote:
>
>> I agree, was just looking for that a week ago too.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m still unclear.
>>
>>
>>
>> My backbone is generally set for 9000+ MTU.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do I need to change my Mikrotik Ethernet ports attached to the Air
>> Fiber units to a specific MTU?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:34 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of
>> basic things!
>>
>>
>>
>> oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU capabilities for any model of
>> airfiber in the most recent pdf datasheet either:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list?  Particularly for PTP
>> bridge radios?  I know it is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from
>> almost every other manufacturer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've
>> been using the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or
>> 9000 byte MTU.
>>
>>
>>
>> But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU
>> (or MTU settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt
>> AF24 users manual:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.
>>
>>
>>
>> People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl
>> through forum posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt 
>> forum
>> to know if a PTP bridge product is going to work for a particular
>> application or not. Same goes for the AF11FX and AF24HD.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Help Identify this unit please

[Josh Reynolds]

No problem :)

On Sep 28, 2017 7:56 PM, "Chris Herrington"  wrote:

> Thank you josh!!
>
>
>
> Chris Herrington, PMP, RCDD/OSP Specialist
>
> FCC Lic. # PG-11-19440
>
> Cell 714-309-8714 <(714)%20309-8714>
>
> ch...@fsc.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 5:17 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Help Identify this unit please
>
>
>
> ICC 6port mobile patch panel
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 7:08 PM, "Chris Herrington"  wrote:
>
> I have been asked to upgrade an network in a 100+ student housing facility.
>
>
>
> I am curious as to what the black box is.  Never seen one and could not
> find any labels.
>
>
>
> Also, if anyone wants to help provide and program switches to distribute a
> gigabit circuit to these 100+ units please contact me.  Vendors welcome
>
>
>
> I will also need a Wi-fi unit in each room.
>
>
>
> Thanks, Chris H
>
>
>
> Chris Herrington, PMP, RCDD/OSP Specialist
>
> FCC Lic. # PG-11-19440
>
> [image: cid:image001.jpg@01CE86F2.B9D9CF30]
>
> Full Spectrum Communications
>
> Consulting, Engineering, Installation
>
> Communications & Electrical Contractor #450317
>
> US Mail: PO Box 60905 Irvine CA 92602
>
> Visit us at: 420 Exchange, Suite 270  Irvine, CA  92602
> 
>
> 800-897-7287 <(800)%20897-7287>, 714-897-3789 <(714)%20897-3789> Chris
> Cell 714-309-8714 <(714)%20309-8714>
>
> ch...@fsc.com
>
> http://www.fsc.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Help Identify this unit please

[Chris Herrington]

Thank you josh!!

 

Chris Herrington, PMP, RCDD/OSP Specialist

FCC Lic. # PG-11-19440

Cell 714-309-8714

ch...@fsc.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 5:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Help Identify this unit please

 

ICC 6port mobile patch panel

 

On Sep 28, 2017 7:08 PM, "Chris Herrington"  wrote:

I have been asked to upgrade an network in a 100+ student housing facility.

 

I am curious as to what the black box is.  Never seen one and could not find 
any labels.

 

Also, if anyone wants to help provide and program switches to distribute a 
gigabit circuit to these 100+ units please contact me.  Vendors welcome

 

I will also need a Wi-fi unit in each room.

 

Thanks, Chris H

 

Chris Herrington, PMP, RCDD/OSP Specialist

FCC Lic. # PG-11-19440

cid:image001.jpg@01CE86F2.B9D9CF30

Full Spectrum Communications

Consulting, Engineering, Installation

Communications & Electrical Contractor #450317

US Mail: PO Box 60905 Irvine CA 92602

Visit us at: 420 Exchange, Suite 270 

   Irvine, CA  92602

800-897-7287  , 714-897-3789   
Chris Cell 714-309-8714  

ch...@fsc.com

http://www.fsc.com  

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Help Identify this unit please

[Josh Reynolds]

ICC 6port mobile patch panel

On Sep 28, 2017 7:08 PM, "Chris Herrington"  wrote:

> I have been asked to upgrade an network in a 100+ student housing facility.
>
>
>
> I am curious as to what the black box is.  Never seen one and could not
> find any labels.
>
>
>
> Also, if anyone wants to help provide and program switches to distribute a
> gigabit circuit to these 100+ units please contact me.  Vendors welcome
>
>
>
> I will also need a Wi-fi unit in each room.
>
>
>
> Thanks, Chris H
>
>
>
> Chris Herrington, PMP, RCDD/OSP Specialist
>
> FCC Lic. # PG-11-19440
>
> [image: cid:image001.jpg@01CE86F2.B9D9CF30]
>
> Full Spectrum Communications
>
> Consulting, Engineering, Installation
>
> Communications & Electrical Contractor #450317
>
> US Mail: PO Box 60905 Irvine CA 92602
>
> Visit us at: 420 Exchange, Suite 270  Irvine, CA  92602
> 
>
> 800-897-7287 <(800)%20897-7287>, 714-897-3789 <(714)%20897-3789> Chris
> Cell 714-309-8714 <(714)%20309-8714>
>
> ch...@fsc.com
>
> http://www.fsc.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?

[Gino A. Villarini]

Email sent

From: Af > on behalf of Jason 
Wilson >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 7:15 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?

Gino,. Email me privately, call me, text me find me on Facebook. I have some 
folks with federal and military contacts looking for a solution for you.

Jason




Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Sep 28, 2017 2:34 PM, "Steve Jones" 
> wrote:
have you talked to the air national guard? thats what my air force guy said to 
do. I dont know if theyve been federalized or no, doesnt sound like they have, 
so they may have a little more leniency in their discretion

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 4:22 PM, > 
wrote:
Bruce, time to head to PR for a few weeks!

From: Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 3:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?

Need to move gear! Not getting any help from FEMA or DHS



Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:2EDA8A2B18B14FF3AAE3BD07E784CCCE@MTC.local]

[AFMUG] Help Identify this unit please

[Chris Herrington]

I have been asked to upgrade an network in a 100+ student housing facility.

 

I am curious as to what the black box is.  Never seen one and could not find 
any labels.

 

Also, if anyone wants to help provide and program switches to distribute a 
gigabit circuit to these 100+ units please contact me.  Vendors welcome

 

I will also need a Wi-fi unit in each room.

 

Thanks, Chris H

 

Chris Herrington, PMP, RCDD/OSP Specialist

FCC Lic. # PG-11-19440

cid:image001.jpg@01CE86F2.B9D9CF30

Full Spectrum Communications

Consulting, Engineering, Installation

Communications & Electrical Contractor #450317

US Mail: PO Box 60905 Irvine CA 92602

Visit us at: 420 Exchange, Suite 270  Irvine, CA  92602

800-897-7287, 714-897-3789 Chris Cell 714-309-8714

ch...@fsc.com

http://www.fsc.com  

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?

[Jason Wilson]

Gino,. Email me privately, call me, text me find me on Facebook. I have
some folks with federal and military contacts looking for a solution for
you.

Jason

On Sep 28, 2017 2:34 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

> have you talked to the air national guard? thats what my air force guy
> said to do. I dont know if theyve been federalized or no, doesnt sound like
> they have, so they may have a little more leniency in their discretion
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 4:22 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Bruce, time to head to PR for a few weeks!
>>
>> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 3:20 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?
>>
>> Need to move gear! Not getting any help from FEMA or DHS
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AT & T Rural broadband

[chuck]

All those areas have ILECS.  Most, if not all receive USF.  Even if they are 
copper, they can shorten the loops to VDSL or ADSL2+ lengths without extreme 
amounts of money.  It can be done.  The FCC needs to keep the broadband speed 
up high to force this, even though it sets a higher bar for WISPS to receive 
support.  But are ANY WISPS receiving USF support yet?

From: Brian Webster 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 5:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AT & T Rural broadband

This is an old map but you get the idea. There are a lot of places on the east 
coast that have unserved areas that WISP’s don’t cover. Upstate NY is a good 
example. Trees, terrain, lack of towers combined with low household density 
make it an almost impossible task to make a business case to build to those 
unserved areas, even as a WISP. The sad thing is that even if the government 
paid someone the whole cost to build out the network to these rural places, the 
only people that could still justify being able to serve these customers are a 
larger operator who can cost average those low density areas over their 
profitable markets. I looked and looked at a lot of regions of the state and 
the numbers were ugly. Rural parts of MA, CT and the other New England states 
are much the same situation. The mid Atlantic states that have those towering 
pine trees and relatively flat terrain are real ugly to design wireless 
networks for, 80 to 100 foot pine trees densely planted? No thanks. It was hard 
enough to design cellular coverage along the cleared highway paths through 
those trees.

 

The map is deceiving too, while it looks like a lot of unserved white areas, 
one has to look at where the population actually lives to has a more accurate 
view of the problem.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:55 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AT & T Rural broadband

 

Brian Webster would be the guy to tell us, but I'm sure he's tied up with WECAT 
stuff.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:54:20 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AT & T Rural broadband

How many areas are wisps NOT in.

 

On Sep 28, 2017 7:39 AM, "Dave"  wrote:

+1 I could see that for sure.
But we could get into the area they are not and would not go much faster.



On 09/28/2017 07:35 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

  It would mean cell cos get more federal funding. A lot more.

   

  On Sep 28, 2017 12:37 AM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

  I don't really see how redefining "broadband" to 10/1 is a bad thing... 
shouldn't that mean that other companies wouldn't (in theory, anyway) be able 
to get funding to overbuild areas where we are already providing 10mbps, which 
they currently could, unless we have at least 25mbps? 

   

  On Sep 28, 2017 12:30 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

Off the topic, but we  have a customer who keeps trying to get our cs to 
ise the term broadband. Hes limited to 6x2 and thinks (semi correctly) he can 
fule an fcc complaint if they use that word. Hes also accused us of violating 
federal monopoly laws because we have an exclusive contract on the grain 
elevator in his town. 

If i could release emails, voicemails, and call recordings from this guy 
over thelast ten years, i would win the internet and nobody in this industry 
would ever hate a customer less.

 

On Sep 27, 2017 10:05 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

  As a note to this...

  "As always, you're not going to be blown away by the performance.
  You're paying $60 per month for 10Mbps downloads and 1Mbps uploads,
  which doesn't meet the FCC's definition of broadband."

  https://twitter.com/JRosenworcel/status/910514607743217665

  "#FCC proposing to lower US #broadband standard from 25 to 10 Mbps.
  This is crazy. Lowering standards doesn't solve our broadband
  problems."

  Why would they do such a thing?

  Oh, so they can get more of our tax dollars to roll out competition in
  your area. Funded by you.


  On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Steve Jones  
wrote:
  > Theyre replacing a tower here five feet from the current tower. I 
assume my
  > bosses taxes are helping to fund this assholes
  >
  > On Sep 27, 2017 6:50 PM, "Tushar Patel"  wrote:
  >
  > 
https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/27/att-rural-wireless-internet-expands-to-9-more-states/
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >

 

   

 

-- 


 

Re: [AFMUG] Multipath fading for a laymen (visuals please)

[chuck]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z20RJq8EH2c

One of the better ones for Huygen’s Wavelet Principle.

From: Brian Webster 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 4:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Multipath fading for a laymen (visuals please)

Sure it will, take a single bulb flashlight and shine it on the wall like this 
attached image. Do you see the light and dark rings of light? The bright ones 
are odd number Fresnel Zones, the dark rings are the even ones. They are dark 
because they are 180 degrees out of phase from the odd zone and thus cause 
cancelling and in the case of the light rings they are darker. Much in the same 
way you get reduced signal levels. This is why it is always preferred to 
engineer radio links at a height to only expose the first Fresnel zone and 
block the second zone. It mitigates or reduces this phase cancelling and signal 
reduction.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Multipath fading for a laymen (visuals please)

 

Light wont cancel

 

On Sep 28, 2017 7:02 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

I don't understand why you can try to come up with examples around PSI but 
light and pictures are hard.

 

"Hands on" kinda guy, eh?

 

On Sep 27, 2017 10:51 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

If i punch water (giving it a hypothetical 2d plane) with 360 psi pressure, it 
should send 1 psi out in each 1 degree? Correct?

Each x distance of water absorbs y of that 1 psi?

Say its 1psi per inch som meter would measure 0? 1/2 would measure .o5?

 

On Sep 27, 2017 10:45 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

Chuck... make a water video.

 

On Sep 27, 2017 10:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Oil film on water.  The colors are due to cancellation of some wavelengths.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film_interference

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:05 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Multipath fading for a laymen (visuals please)

 

Ductings easy, i can put it through a duct, if need be i make a duct out of ice 
to show the temp and humidity. 

 

I can show noise with a bright light close and dim light far

 

But how do i replicate cancellation. I assume water, but timing the ripples 
might be an issue. Anybody have a reflective ripple cancellation to still water 
video? That would be the bees knees.

 

On Sep 27, 2017 10:00 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

"Sometimes the wind blows and the leaves move. This changes where the light 
moves." 

 

Almost everything in RF can be visualized with light. Some things are harder 
than others (ducting for example).

 

On Sep 27, 2017 9:49 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

  Laymen, laymen, laymen. 

   

  How do i visualize the fact that the same thing at the same level, can cancel 
itself out? 

  Beyond that, how do i show the variance factors, temp, humidity, radio mites?

   

  Even better would be a live display of reasonable things they understand.

   

  My old man would be easy. Id smash his right index finger, then smash his 
left, hed understand because his right finger quit hurting so much.

   

  But i assume the soft people of today that wont work, theyll just talk about 
how bith fingers hurt

   

  On Sep 27, 2017 9:41 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

Use an adjustable beam version...good way to visualize

 

On Sep 27, 2017 8:28 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

Shine a flashlight through a bush. 

 

If you're lucky sometimes the light reflects off multiple leaves onto 
roughly the same spot. (Constructive reflection)

 

On Sep 27, 2017 8:43 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

I have a location thats solely down to multipath reflective fading. The 
best analogy i have is noise cancelling headphones, which makes total sense to 
me... but still the same dull look. Is there aome rf for dummies visuals?

 

   

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] OTT-TV

[Jason McKemie]

I still prefer that to the other way around, though.

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 9/27/17 2:52 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>
>> There is going to be a tipping point where all the big networks have to
>> start selling OTT, or lose customers. A few networks are already doing it,
>> such as HBO.
>>
>
>
> It's starting to get annoying though where everyone is starting to offer
> their own online streaming service and pulling their content from other
> services.
>
> ~Seth
>

Re: [AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?

[Steve Jones]

have you talked to the air national guard? thats what my air force guy said
to do. I dont know if theyve been federalized or no, doesnt sound like they
have, so they may have a little more leniency in their discretion

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 4:22 PM,  wrote:

> Bruce, time to head to PR for a few weeks!
>
> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 3:20 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?
>
> Need to move gear! Not getting any help from FEMA or DHS
>
>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?

[chuck]

Bruce, time to head to PR for a few weeks!

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 3:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?

Need to move gear! Not getting any help from FEMA or DHS 


  Gino A. Villarini
 
  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

[AFMUG] Anyone has a plane that i can charter for cargo?

[Gino A. Villarini]

Need to move gear! Not getting any help from FEMA or DHS



Gino A. Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

Re: [AFMUG] Telrad Compact 1000 Repair

[Adam Moffett]

Allegedly Telrad does.


-- Original Message --
From: "SmarterBroadband" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 9/28/2017 4:53:10 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Telrad Compact 1000 Repair


We have a Telrad Compact 1000 that needs repairing.



Do you know of anyone doing this?



Thanks



Adam

[AFMUG] Telrad Compact 1000 Repair

[SmarterBroadband]

We have a Telrad Compact 1000 that needs repairing.

 

Do you know of anyone doing this?

 

Thanks

 

Adam

 

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Chuck Macenski]

Hi,

Just to be official about is, all airFIber radios support transport of
Jumbo packets sizes of 9000+ bytes. The currently supported packet size is
9600. There is no configuration required - they just do it.

I am an Ubiquiti employee :)

Chuck

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> I'm not here for your approval friend!
> Pal!
> Buddy!
>
> /smacks Mike on slack
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 1:10 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> That's a much better statement.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:54:43 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic
>> things!
>>
>> I think you're thinking about this too hard, or maybe I wasn't explicit
>> enough. Typing from a phone causes that.
>>
>> Yes, I'm staying if you are building the type of network where you have
>> identified a large MTU is desirable on the L2 path, you want everything to
>> be as high as possible, and you will be limited by the devices smallest MTU
>> on the path.
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017 12:51 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>>
>>> no, it doesn't, only if you are building L2 networks bridged between
>>> multiple locations. It's perfectly fine to have a router-to-router OSPF /30
>>> link that is carried across a PTP system with a 1600 byte MTU (older
>>> Bridgewave radios for instance), then another separate set of OSPF
>>> interfaces onwards from that same router, to another router, over a 9000
>>> byte MTU radio bridge. Or whatever.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 MTU needs to be consistent on the entirety of the path.

 AirFiber supports 9600 MTU since 1.1 FW.

 On Sep 28, 2017 12:35 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
 wrote:

> I agree, was just looking for that a week ago too.
>
>
>
> I’m still unclear.
>
>
>
> My backbone is generally set for 9000+ MTU.
>
>
>
> Do I need to change my Mikrotik Ethernet ports attached to the Air
> Fiber units to a specific MTU?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:34 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of
> basic things!
>
>
>
> oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU capabilities for any model of
> airfiber in the most recent pdf datasheet either:
>
>
>
> https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf
>
>
>
> Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list?  Particularly for PTP
> bridge radios?  I know it is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from
> almost every other manufacturer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
>
> Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've
> been using the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or
> 9000 byte MTU.
>
>
>
> But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or
> MTU settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24
> users manual:
>
>
>
> https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf
>
>
>
> ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.
>
>
>
> People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl
> through forum posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum
> to know if a PTP bridge product is going to work for a particular
> application or not. Same goes for the AF11FX and AF24HD.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Josh Reynolds]

I'm not here for your approval friend!
Pal!
Buddy!

/smacks Mike on slack

On Sep 28, 2017 1:10 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> That's a much better statement.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:54:43 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic
> things!
>
> I think you're thinking about this too hard, or maybe I wasn't explicit
> enough. Typing from a phone causes that.
>
> Yes, I'm staying if you are building the type of network where you have
> identified a large MTU is desirable on the L2 path, you want everything to
> be as high as possible, and you will be limited by the devices smallest MTU
> on the path.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 12:51 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>
>> no, it doesn't, only if you are building L2 networks bridged between
>> multiple locations. It's perfectly fine to have a router-to-router OSPF /30
>> link that is carried across a PTP system with a 1600 byte MTU (older
>> Bridgewave radios for instance), then another separate set of OSPF
>> interfaces onwards from that same router, to another router, over a 9000
>> byte MTU radio bridge. Or whatever.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> MTU needs to be consistent on the entirety of the path.
>>>
>>> AirFiber supports 9600 MTU since 1.1 FW.
>>>
>>> On Sep 28, 2017 12:35 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I agree, was just looking for that a week ago too.



 I’m still unclear.



 My backbone is generally set for 9000+ MTU.



 Do I need to change my Mikrotik Ethernet ports attached to the Air
 Fiber units to a specific MTU?



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
 *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:34 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of
 basic things!



 oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU capabilities for any model of
 airfiber in the most recent pdf datasheet either:



 https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf



 Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list?  Particularly for PTP
 bridge radios?  I know it is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from
 almost every other manufacturer.











 On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
 wrote:

 Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've
 been using the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or
 9000 byte MTU.



 But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or
 MTU settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24
 users manual:



 https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf



 ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.



 People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl
 through forum posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum
 to know if a PTP bridge product is going to work for a particular
 application or not. Same goes for the AF11FX and AF24HD.







>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[George Skorup]

And that example is where a case can be made for free market principles. 
You got how many hundreds of thousands or millions of customers on a 
carrier in a large market. Netflix probably figured it was in their best 
interest to co-lo at the carrier's facilities so they don't lose 
customers. And somehow that's extortion by the big bad ISP.


Perfect analogy. I live right off of I55. Nothing but corn and bean 
fields for decades along the frontage roads. The farmers retired and 
sold the land. Now there are some big warehouses. The roads are being 
widened and repaired, paid by the developer. And why should they not pay 
for it when the majority of the traffic will be theirs? And heavy 
traffic at that. They weren't asked to pay for future I55 repairs 
because of their traffic, just the access roads into their terminals.


So is it really too much to ask the edge provider pays for the 
interconnection? IMO, no.


On 9/28/2017 7:10 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
A few years ago Netflix colo'd their CDN servers in a Comcast data 
center to resolve an overloaded peering issue.  Performance improved 
for Netflix users served by that Comcast data center, usage on the 
peering connection went back to normal.  Netflix pays a monthly fee 
for Colo just as anybody else would.  Most observers in the media 
noted that performance improved after Netflix started paying Comcast 
and called it blackmail or extortion.  Bad ISP! Stop charging Netflix 
for Colo!  We need Neutrality!


So yeah, I agree with you.


-- Original Message --
From: "George Skorup" >

To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 9/28/2017 1:25:29 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


I thought half or most of the issue was the "edge providers"?

Consumer wants edge providers' content.
Edge provider makes money from the consumer. Advertising. The content 
itself. Etc.

Edge provider doesn't want to pay carrier for transit.
Both sides bitch. Peering is overloaded.
Gov't steps in to "fix" it.

Data caps and speed tiers weren't dissolved with NN. So what does it 
do for the consumer? Or for that matter, the carrier? Who does it 
"protect" other than the edge provider? Seems it's only protecting 
their profits.


On 9/27/2017 11:40 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
That's pretty much how I've always seen it... NN always seemed to me 
more of a solution to a problem that people were afraid might be 
there someday, which the market would more than likely take care of 
by itself if it actually does happen, than a solution to an actual 
real problem.


On Sep 27, 2017 11:26 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
> wrote:


I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do
as they wish with their networks) would only help the smaller
providers. It's certainly possible that I'm missing something
though.

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup
> wrote:

I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that
needed NN to come fix it?

On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

How so?

It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had
lube, or there
was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't
been moved into
the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we
just got "raw
dogged".

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones
 wrote:

Were we fucked 4 years ago?

On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds"
 wrote:

There's some points that are obviously wrong,
and some that are not.

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is
repealed we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"
 wrote:



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp




I pretty much had to quit reading when this
idiot sated what the FCCs job
is

Re: [AFMUG] Pai is not getting the love

[Chuck Hogg]

She's hardly an advocate for Pai, very much the opposite in my opinion.

Regards,
Chuck

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> from the bottom of the article it says the author is...
>
> "*Gigi Sohn served as **c**ounselor to former FCC chairman Tom Wheeler
> from November 2013 to December 2016**."*
>
> so yeah of course she isn't going to like what Pai is doing lol
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:16 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net
>> -neutrality-isp
>>
>>
>>
>> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>>
>> *4226 S. 37
>> th Street •
>> Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>>
>> *602-426-0542 <(602)%20426-0542>*
>>
>> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>>
>> *www.triadwireless.net *
>>
>>
>>
>> *“A hot dog at the game beats roast beef at the Ritz.”* — Humphrey Bogart
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode

[chuck]

Whad I do

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 1:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode

Wondering if Chuck got a call from a lawyer or not...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

  Oh man..wait till Chuck starts using Tweeter...Calgon take me away!!

  On Sep 26, 2017 9:25 AM, "Simon Westlake"  wrote:

We didn't buy Powercode, Chuck is just causing trouble. 



On 9/26/2017 10:19 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


  With sonar, wispmon, and powercode, I don't understand how they'll have 
time to maintain three code bases.
  Obviously Simon is the superhero I always thought he was

  I'd love to see that redbull fridge now

- Original Message - 
From: Simon Westlake 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode

Countdown until I get a call from my lawyers starts now..


On 9/26/2017 9:28 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

  A dangerous prank.


  -- Original Message --
  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 9/26/2017 10:28:04 AM
  Subject: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode

Hey all,

Just wanted to get in front of this before anyone else does - Sonar 
has acquired PowerCode* 
(https://sonar.software/blog/2017-09-26/our-acquisition-of-powercode) and we'll 
be reaching out to all the existing PowerCode customers today to discuss the 
transition process. 

We're very excited about this new step - Cameron and Georgette of 
PowerCode are both joining the Sonar team, and I'm confident they are both 
going to do great things. If you're currently using PowerCode, you'll receive a 
direct email shortly, and we'll be calling everyone as quickly as we can to 
discuss details.

Cameron and Georgette will both be in Vegas with us in the Sonar 
booth as well, so please come by and say hi! 
-- 
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software * fake news generated by Chuck McCown to create some fun 
for the day... 

-- 
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

-- 
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

Re: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode

[Josh Luthman]

Wondering if Chuck got a call from a lawyer or not...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Oh man..wait till Chuck starts using Tweeter...Calgon take me away!!
>
> On Sep 26, 2017 9:25 AM, "Simon Westlake"  wrote:
>
> We didn't buy Powercode, Chuck is just causing trouble.
>
>
> On 9/26/2017 10:19 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>
> With sonar, wispmon, and powercode, I don't understand how they'll have
> time to maintain three code bases.
> Obviously Simon is the superhero I always thought he was
>
> I'd love to see that redbull fridge now
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Simon Westlake 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:30 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode
>
> Countdown until I get a call from my lawyers starts now..
>
> On 9/26/2017 9:28 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> A dangerous prank.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 9/26/2017 10:28:04 AM
> Subject: [AFMUG] We've acquired PowerCode
>
> Hey all,
>
> Just wanted to get in front of this before anyone else does - Sonar has
> acquired PowerCode* (https://sonar.software/blog/2
> 017-09-26/our-acquisition-of-powercode) and we'll be reaching out to all
> the existing PowerCode customers today to discuss the transition process.
>
> We're very excited about this new step - Cameron and Georgette of
> PowerCode are both joining the Sonar team, and I'm confident they are both
> going to do great things. If you're currently using PowerCode, you'll
> receive a direct email shortly, and we'll be calling everyone as quickly as
> we can to discuss details.
>
> Cameron and Georgette will both be in Vegas with us in the Sonar booth as
> well, so please come by and say hi!
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>
>
> * fake news generated by Chuck McCown to create some fun for the day...
>
>
>
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The future of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[chuck]

Let me put it another way

She looks like a million bucks, go hit on her, don’t just assume she is out of 
your league.
What’s the worst that can happen?

“don’t ask, don’t get”



From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

If they don’t know BIAS is not really in play then once you get the permit you 
are golden.  
Cell phone providers are not CLECs and they get in all the same ROWs as the 
CLECS and ILECS.  

I have never ever had a permitting agency ask me how I had the right to ask for 
access.  

Moreover, crossing federal public lands, they cannot even charge you rent.  
That is by act of congress.  And that applies to every person on this list.  

They just want drawings and money.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Which is a point I've already made.

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just asking, 
great.
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they  have to let you 
in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.).
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:57:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


No, I don’t have a CLEC for the non reg stuff.  

You always have to get permission from the property owner, it may be a public 
street but the city still has to grant an excavation or together permit.  

Many times there is a public utility easement around private property that you 
can occupy.  

The FCC made all BIAS providers public utilities in spirit.  While that 
particular document may no longer be in effect, you can still point to the 
language and use it.  If you get the permit you are golden.  None of this 
requires a CLEC.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there.  Most easements I get are free.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


CLEC is no insurance.  
ROW-Easement is insurance.  



From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works."




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider.

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies.




On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  You're wrong.  :-p

  Did anyone actually utilize that 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[chuck]

If they don’t know BIAS is not really in play then once you get the permit you 
are golden.  
Cell phone providers are not CLECs and they get in all the same ROWs as the 
CLECS and ILECS.  

I have never ever had a permitting agency ask me how I had the right to ask for 
access.  

Moreover, crossing federal public lands, they cannot even charge you rent.  
That is by act of congress.  And that applies to every person on this list.  

They just want drawings and money.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Which is a point I've already made.

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just asking, 
great.
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they  have to let you 
in unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.).
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:57:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


No, I don’t have a CLEC for the non reg stuff.  

You always have to get permission from the property owner, it may be a public 
street but the city still has to grant an excavation or together permit.  

Many times there is a public utility easement around private property that you 
can occupy.  

The FCC made all BIAS providers public utilities in spirit.  While that 
particular document may no longer be in effect, you can still point to the 
language and use it.  If you get the permit you are golden.  None of this 
requires a CLEC.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there.  Most easements I get are free.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


CLEC is no insurance.  
ROW-Easement is insurance.  



From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works."




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider.

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies.




On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  You're wrong.  :-p

  Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire.

  They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 

Re: [AFMUG] Multipath fading for a laymen (visuals please)

[Steve Jones]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuv6hY6zsd0 this has a start at around
5:05, but instead of two wave sources, i need to have a single source that
reflects and interacts with itself "predictably" and various distances from
the source

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Light wont cancel
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 7:02 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
>> I don't understand why you can try to come up with examples around PSI
>> but light and pictures are hard.
>>
>> "Hands on" kinda guy, eh?
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2017 10:51 PM, "Steve Jones" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If i punch water (giving it a hypothetical 2d plane) with 360 psi
>>> pressure, it should send 1 psi out in each 1 degree? Correct?
>>>  Each x distance of water absorbs y of that 1 psi?
>>> Say its 1psi per inch som meter would measure 0? 1/2 would measure .o5?
>>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2017 10:45 PM, "Steve Jones" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Chuck... make a water video.
>>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2017 10:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 Oil film on water.  The colors are due to cancellation of some
 wavelengths.
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film_interference

 *From:* Steve Jones
 *Sent:* Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:05 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Multipath fading for a laymen (visuals please)

 Ductings easy, i can put it through a duct, if need be i make a duct
 out of ice to show the temp and humidity.

 I can show noise with a bright light close and dim light far

 But how do i replicate cancellation. I assume water, but timing the
 ripples might be an issue. Anybody have a reflective ripple cancellation to
 still water video? That would be the bees knees.

 On Sep 27, 2017 10:00 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

 "Sometimes the wind blows and the leaves move. This changes where the
 light moves."

 Almost everything in RF can be visualized with light. Some things are
 harder than others (ducting for example).

 On Sep 27, 2017 9:49 PM, "Steve Jones" 
 wrote:

> Laymen, laymen, laymen.
>
> How do i visualize the fact that the same thing at the same level, can
> cancel itself out?
> Beyond that, how do i show the variance factors, temp, humidity, radio
> mites?
>
> Even better would be a live display of reasonable things they
> understand.
>
> My old man would be easy. Id smash his right index finger, then smash
> his left, hed understand because his right finger quit hurting so much.
>
> But i assume the soft people of today that wont work, theyll just talk
> about how bith fingers hurt
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 9:41 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
> Use an adjustable beam version...good way to visualize
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 8:28 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
> Shine a flashlight through a bush.
>
> If you're lucky sometimes the light reflects off multiple leaves onto
> roughly the same spot. (Constructive reflection)
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 8:43 PM, "Steve Jones" 
> wrote:
>
>> I have a location thats solely down to multipath reflective fading.
>> The best analogy i have is noise cancelling headphones, which makes total
>> sense to me... but still the same dull look. Is there aome rf for dummies
>> visuals?
>>
>
>
>
>


>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Mike Hammett]

Which is a point I've already made. 

If you can get access without any particular designation, but by just asking, 
great. 
If above fails, get your CLEC and do it again, only now they have to let you in 
unless there's a documented reason why not (not enough room, etc.). 
Don't depend on BIAS which is rather volatile. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:57:41 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




No, I don’t have a CLEC for the non reg stuff. 

You always have to get permission from the property owner, it may be a public 
street but the city still has to grant an excavation or together permit. 

Many times there is a public utility easement around private property that you 
can occupy. 

The FCC made all BIAS providers public utilities in spirit. While that 
particular document may no longer be in effect, you can still point to the 
language and use it. If you get the permit you are golden. None of this 
requires a CLEC. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:04 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there. Most easements I get are free. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




CLEC is no insurance. 
ROW-Easement is insurance. 






From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 





On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 



If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as 
well. 

My memory is fuzzy though. 



On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Mike Hammett]

*yawn* 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:38:23 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than and 
ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax dollars 
while providing only what they legally have to. 


There is no good reason to support that business model. 


On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool. Use 
the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory certainty 
comes. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to divide 
the providers into classes. 


On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there. Most easements I get are free. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




CLEC is no insurance. 
ROW-Easement is insurance. 






From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 





On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 



If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as 
well. 

My memory is fuzzy though. 



On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality. 




- 
Mike Hammett 

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Mike Hammett]

That's a much better statement. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:54:43 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things! 


I think you're thinking about this too hard, or maybe I wasn't explicit enough. 
Typing from a phone causes that. 


Yes, I'm staying if you are building the type of network where you have 
identified a large MTU is desirable on the L2 path, you want everything to be 
as high as possible, and you will be limited by the devices smallest MTU on the 
path. 


On Sep 28, 2017 12:51 PM, "Eric Kuhnke" < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 



no, it doesn't, only if you are building L2 networks bridged between multiple 
locations. It's perfectly fine to have a router-to-router OSPF /30 link that is 
carried across a PTP system with a 1600 byte MTU (older Bridgewave radios for 
instance), then another separate set of OSPF interfaces onwards from that same 
router, to another router, over a 9000 byte MTU radio bridge. Or whatever. 



On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



MTU needs to be consistent on the entirety of the path. 


AirFiber supports 9600 MTU since 1.1 FW. 


On Sep 28, 2017 12:35 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" < sterl...@avative.net > wrote: 





I agree, was just looking for that a week ago too. 

I’m still unclear. 

My backbone is generally set for 9000+ MTU. 

Do I need to change my Mikrotik Ethernet ports attached to the Air Fiber units 
to a specific MTU? 

From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:34 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things! 


oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU capabilities for any model of airfiber 
in the most recent pdf datasheet either: 



https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf 



Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list? Particularly for PTP bridge 
radios? I know it is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from almost every 
other manufacturer. 











On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 





Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've been using 
the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or 9000 byte MTU. 



But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or MTU 
settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24 users 
manual: 



https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf 



ctrl-f for "mtu"... nothing. 



People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl through forum 
posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum to know if a PTP 
bridge product is going to work for a particular application or not. Same goes 
for the AF11FX and AF24HD. 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[chuck]

If you have a government as the main customer willing to pay dearly for your 
product, is that government subsidized?

Rockwell built the lunar lander I think.

Rocketdyne started out with hobbyists until the government recognized they knew 
something about rocket engines.  

All the defense contractors during WWII grew with new products where the 
government were the only customers.

So, are all of these subsidized?  

If so, then yes Long Lines was government subsidized.  



From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 10:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

I guess I thought Long Lines was a DOD project.but I might have invented 
that idea.


-- Original Message --
From: "Steve Jones" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 9/28/2017 11:59:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

  out of curiousity, did AT build out long lines on their own dime, or what 
that government subsidized?

  On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

AT Funding Model: 
<1> Lobby
<2> "muh copper"
<3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
<4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
<5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
<6> see step 1

On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

  you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and go 
shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many like 
her, but this one is mine" 

  cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make 
ROW great again, we can have hats

  On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:

It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than 
and ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax 
dollars while providing only what they legally have to. 

There is no good reason to support that business model.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive 
tool. Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory 
certainty comes.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Josh Reynolds" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


  The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to 
divide the providers into classes.

  On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a 
CLEC I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property 
allows me to.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep 
your cable there.  Most easements I get are free.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


CLEC is no insurance.  
ROW-Easement is insurance.  



From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is 
pretty cheap insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of 
existing providers is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly 
different. As long as most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. 
If Netflix buffers constantly, your 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[chuck]

No, I don’t have a CLEC for the non reg stuff.  

You always have to get permission from the property owner, it may be a public 
street but the city still has to grant an excavation or together permit.  

Many times there is a public utility easement around private property that you 
can occupy.  

The FCC made all BIAS providers public utilities in spirit.  While that 
particular document may no longer be in effect, you can still point to the 
language and use it.  If you get the permit you are golden.  None of this 
requires a CLEC.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there.  Most easements I get are free.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


CLEC is no insurance.  
ROW-Easement is insurance.  



From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works."




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider.

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies.




On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  You're wrong.  :-p

  Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire.

  They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Josh Reynolds" 
  To: af@afmug.com

  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


  If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

  Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that 
as well.

  My memory is fuzzy though.

  On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM
Subject: Re: 

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Josh Reynolds]

I think you're thinking about this too hard, or maybe I wasn't explicit
enough. Typing from a phone causes that.

Yes, I'm staying if you are building the type of network where you have
identified a large MTU is desirable on the L2 path, you want everything to
be as high as possible, and you will be limited by the devices smallest MTU
on the path.

On Sep 28, 2017 12:51 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:

> no, it doesn't, only if you are building L2 networks bridged between
> multiple locations. It's perfectly fine to have a router-to-router OSPF /30
> link that is carried across a PTP system with a 1600 byte MTU (older
> Bridgewave radios for instance), then another separate set of OSPF
> interfaces onwards from that same router, to another router, over a 9000
> byte MTU radio bridge. Or whatever.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> MTU needs to be consistent on the entirety of the path.
>>
>> AirFiber supports 9600 MTU since 1.1 FW.
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017 12:35 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree, was just looking for that a week ago too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m still unclear.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My backbone is generally set for 9000+ MTU.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do I need to change my Mikrotik Ethernet ports attached to the Air Fiber
>>> units to a specific MTU?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:34 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic
>>> things!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU capabilities for any model of
>>> airfiber in the most recent pdf datasheet either:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list?  Particularly for PTP
>>> bridge radios?  I know it is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from
>>> almost every other manufacturer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've
>>> been using the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or
>>> 9000 byte MTU.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or
>>> MTU settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24
>>> users manual:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl
>>> through forum posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum
>>> to know if a PTP bridge product is going to work for a particular
>>> application or not. Same goes for the AF11FX and AF24HD.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Eric Kuhnke]

no, it doesn't, only if you are building L2 networks bridged between
multiple locations. It's perfectly fine to have a router-to-router OSPF /30
link that is carried across a PTP system with a 1600 byte MTU (older
Bridgewave radios for instance), then another separate set of OSPF
interfaces onwards from that same router, to another router, over a 9000
byte MTU radio bridge. Or whatever.


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

> MTU needs to be consistent on the entirety of the path.
>
> AirFiber supports 9600 MTU since 1.1 FW.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 12:35 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
> wrote:
>
>> I agree, was just looking for that a week ago too.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m still unclear.
>>
>>
>>
>> My backbone is generally set for 9000+ MTU.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do I need to change my Mikrotik Ethernet ports attached to the Air Fiber
>> units to a specific MTU?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:34 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic
>> things!
>>
>>
>>
>> oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU capabilities for any model of
>> airfiber in the most recent pdf datasheet either:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list?  Particularly for PTP bridge
>> radios?  I know it is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from almost
>> every other manufacturer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've been
>> using the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or 9000
>> byte MTU.
>>
>>
>>
>> But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or
>> MTU settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24
>> users manual:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.
>>
>>
>>
>> People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl through
>> forum posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum to know
>> if a PTP bridge product is going to work for a particular application or
>> not. Same goes for the AF11FX and AF24HD.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Ben Moore]

By the way...Doc team is updating website.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Ben Moore  wrote:

> That is step #1 Steve.  Step #2 is go to the website ;)
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> ubnt has documentation? I thought you just went to the forum to get
>> degraded and yelled at for any information
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:41 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> MTU needs to be consistent on the entirety of the path.
>>>
>>> AirFiber supports 9600 MTU since 1.1 FW.
>>>
>>> On Sep 28, 2017 12:35 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I agree, was just looking for that a week ago too.



 I’m still unclear.



 My backbone is generally set for 9000+ MTU.



 Do I need to change my Mikrotik Ethernet ports attached to the Air
 Fiber units to a specific MTU?



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
 *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:34 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of
 basic things!



 oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU capabilities for any model of
 airfiber in the most recent pdf datasheet either:



 https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf



 Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list?  Particularly for PTP
 bridge radios?  I know it is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from
 almost every other manufacturer.











 On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
 wrote:

 Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've
 been using the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or
 9000 byte MTU.



 But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or
 MTU settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24
 users manual:



 https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf



 ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.



 People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl
 through forum posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum
 to know if a PTP bridge product is going to work for a particular
 application or not. Same goes for the AF11FX and AF24HD.







>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Ben Moore]

That is step #1 Steve.  Step #2 is go to the website ;)

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> ubnt has documentation? I thought you just went to the forum to get
> degraded and yelled at for any information
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:41 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> MTU needs to be consistent on the entirety of the path.
>>
>> AirFiber supports 9600 MTU since 1.1 FW.
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017 12:35 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree, was just looking for that a week ago too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m still unclear.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My backbone is generally set for 9000+ MTU.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do I need to change my Mikrotik Ethernet ports attached to the Air Fiber
>>> units to a specific MTU?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:34 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic
>>> things!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU capabilities for any model of
>>> airfiber in the most recent pdf datasheet either:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list?  Particularly for PTP
>>> bridge radios?  I know it is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from
>>> almost every other manufacturer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've
>>> been using the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or
>>> 9000 byte MTU.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or
>>> MTU settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24
>>> users manual:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl
>>> through forum posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum
>>> to know if a PTP bridge product is going to work for a particular
>>> application or not. Same goes for the AF11FX and AF24HD.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Steve Jones]

ubnt has documentation? I thought you just went to the forum to get
degraded and yelled at for any information

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:41 PM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

> MTU needs to be consistent on the entirety of the path.
>
> AirFiber supports 9600 MTU since 1.1 FW.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 12:35 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
> wrote:
>
>> I agree, was just looking for that a week ago too.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m still unclear.
>>
>>
>>
>> My backbone is generally set for 9000+ MTU.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do I need to change my Mikrotik Ethernet ports attached to the Air Fiber
>> units to a specific MTU?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:34 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic
>> things!
>>
>>
>>
>> oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU capabilities for any model of
>> airfiber in the most recent pdf datasheet either:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list?  Particularly for PTP bridge
>> radios?  I know it is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from almost
>> every other manufacturer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've been
>> using the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or 9000
>> byte MTU.
>>
>>
>>
>> But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or
>> MTU settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24
>> users manual:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.
>>
>>
>>
>> People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl through
>> forum posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum to know
>> if a PTP bridge product is going to work for a particular application or
>> not. Same goes for the AF11FX and AF24HD.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Josh Reynolds]

MTU needs to be consistent on the entirety of the path.

AirFiber supports 9600 MTU since 1.1 FW.

On Sep 28, 2017 12:35 PM, "Sterling Jacobson"  wrote:

> I agree, was just looking for that a week ago too.
>
>
>
> I’m still unclear.
>
>
>
> My backbone is generally set for 9000+ MTU.
>
>
>
> Do I need to change my Mikrotik Ethernet ports attached to the Air Fiber
> units to a specific MTU?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:34 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic
> things!
>
>
>
> oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU capabilities for any model of
> airfiber in the most recent pdf datasheet either:
>
>
>
> https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf
>
>
>
> Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list?  Particularly for PTP bridge
> radios?  I know it is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from almost
> every other manufacturer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
>
> Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've been
> using the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or 9000
> byte MTU.
>
>
>
> But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or MTU
> settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24
> users manual:
>
>
>
> https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf
>
>
>
> ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.
>
>
>
> People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl through
> forum posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum to know
> if a PTP bridge product is going to work for a particular application or
> not. Same goes for the AF11FX and AF24HD.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Sterling Jacobson]

I agree, was just looking for that a week ago too.

I’m still unclear.

My backbone is generally set for 9000+ MTU.

Do I need to change my Mikrotik Ethernet ports attached to the Air Fiber units 
to a specific MTU?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU capabilities for any model of airfiber 
in the most recent pdf datasheet either:

https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf

Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list?  Particularly for PTP bridge 
radios?  I know it is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from almost every 
other manufacturer.





On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've been using 
the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or 9000 byte MTU.

But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or MTU 
settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24 users 
manual:

https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf

ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.

People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl through forum 
posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum to know if a PTP 
bridge product is going to work for a particular application or not. Same goes 
for the AF11FX and AF24HD.

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Eric Kuhnke]

oh yeah, and there is no mention of MTU capabilities for any model of
airfiber in the most recent pdf datasheet either:

https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_DS.pdf

Is that not a basic datasheet thing to list?  Particularly for PTP bridge
radios?  I know it is for every serious PTP radio I've seen from almost
every other manufacturer.





On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've been
> using the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or 9000
> byte MTU.
>
> But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or MTU
> settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24
> users manual:
>
> https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf
>
> ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.
>
> People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl through
> forum posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum to know
> if a PTP bridge product is going to work for a particular application or
> not. Same goes for the AF11FX and AF24HD.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Ben Moore]

Hi Eric -

Message received and sent to our documentation team.

Thanks,
Ben

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've been
> using the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or 9000
> byte MTU.
>
> But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or MTU
> settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24
> users manual:
>
> https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf
>
> ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.
>
> People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl through
> forum posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum to know
> if a PTP bridge product is going to work for a particular application or
> not. Same goes for the AF11FX and AF24HD.
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Ben Moore, ubnt, fix your documentation of basic things!

[Eric Kuhnke]

Now, I know this, and everyone on the list knows this, because we've been
using the AF24 for years. We know we can use it with either 1600 or 9000
byte MTU.

But I find it amazing that there is no mention anywhere of max MTU (or MTU
settings/capabilities in general) anywhere whatsoever in the ubnt AF24
users manual:

https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/airfiber/airFiber_AF24_UG.pdf

ctrl-f for "mtu"...  nothing.

People should not be required to google "af24 mtu 9000" and trawl through
forum posts from non-ubnt-employee third parties on the ubnt forum to know
if a PTP bridge product is going to work for a particular application or
not. Same goes for the AF11FX and AF24HD.

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Josh Reynolds]

That's half the appointments in government. There's two classifications of
SES positions, one is a career appointment, and one is political.

Political appointments normally change with executive branch changes.
Career appointments can't be removed really from SES, but they can be
transitioned to managing something much smaller like a pencil factory.

On Sep 28, 2017 12:16 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

getting fired leaves bad tastes in the mouth

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> from the bottom of the article it says the author is...
>
> "*Gigi Sohn served as **c**ounselor to former FCC chairman Tom Wheeler
> from November 2013 to December 2016**."*
>
> so yeah of course she isn't going to like what Pai is doing lol
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net
>> -neutrality-isp
>>
>>
>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
>> is
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Steve Jones]

getting fired leaves bad tastes in the mouth

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> from the bottom of the article it says the author is...
>
> "*Gigi Sohn served as **c**ounselor to former FCC chairman Tom Wheeler
> from November 2013 to December 2016**."*
>
> so yeah of course she isn't going to like what Pai is doing lol
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net
>> -neutrality-isp
>>
>>
>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
>> is
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Pai is not getting the love

[Sean Heskett]

from the bottom of the article it says the author is...

"*Gigi Sohn served as **c**ounselor to former FCC chairman Tom Wheeler from
November 2013 to December 2016**."*

so yeah of course she isn't going to like what Pai is doing lol

-Sean


On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:16 PM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-
> net-neutrality-isp
>
>
>
> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>
> *4226 S. 37 th
> Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>
> *602-426-0542 <(602)%20426-0542>*
>
> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>
> *www.triadwireless.net *
>
>
>
> *“A hot dog at the game beats roast beef at the Ritz.”* — Humphrey Bogart
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Sean Heskett]

from the bottom of the article it says the author is...

"*Gigi Sohn served as **c**ounselor to former FCC chairman Tom Wheeler from
November 2013 to December 2016**."*

so yeah of course she isn't going to like what Pai is doing lol

-Sean



On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-
> net-neutrality-isp
>
>
> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
> is
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Josh Reynolds]

"In closing, it is appropriate that we recognize today the 100th
anniversary of the Kingsbury Commitment.  But we should view that agreement
not as an inspiration for the future but rather as a warning.  It is a
warning that regulatory capture is a real risk.  It is a warning that some
regulations preserve competitors at the expense of real competition. " -
Pai's comments of 100 years after Kingsbury, from:
https://www.fcc.gov/document/pai-remarks-100th-anniversary-kingsbury-commitment

On Sep 28, 2017 11:26 AM, "James Howard"  wrote:

> It was written on the internet so there’s no question that everything they
> say is true!
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:17 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
>
>
> Oh damn...
>
>
>
> http://fortune.com/2015/08/18/att-nsa/
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 11:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
> I can't find anything saying that directly, but it does talk about how
> critical it was to national defense... Big bunkers with huge generators and
> a federal backed monopoly.
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 11:01 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
> I guess I thought Long Lines was a DOD project.but I might have
> invented that idea.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Steve Jones" 
>
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
> Sent: 9/28/2017 11:59:35 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
>
>
> out of curiousity, did AT build out long lines on their own dime, or
> what that government subsidized?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
> AT Funding Model:
>
> <1> Lobby
>
> <2> "muh copper"
>
> <3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
>
> <4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
>
> <5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
>
> <6> see step 1
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
> you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and go
> shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many
> like her, but this one is mine"
>
>
>
> cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make
> ROW great again, we can have hats
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
> It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than and
> ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax
> dollars while providing only what they legally have to.
>
>
>
> There is no good reason to support that business model.
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool.
> Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
> certainty comes.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
> divide the providers into classes.
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I
> *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows
> me to.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
> *Subject: 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[James Howard]

It was written on the internet so there's no question that everything they say 
is true!

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:17 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Oh damn...

http://fortune.com/2015/08/18/att-nsa/

On Sep 28, 2017 11:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds" 
> wrote:
I can't find anything saying that directly, but it does talk about how critical 
it was to national defense... Big bunkers with huge generators and a federal 
backed monopoly.

On Sep 28, 2017 11:01 AM, "Adam Moffett" 
> wrote:
I guess I thought Long Lines was a DOD project.but I might have invented 
that idea.


-- Original Message --
From: "Steve Jones" 
>
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Sent: 9/28/2017 11:59:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

out of curiousity, did AT build out long lines on their own dime, or what 
that government subsidized?

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
AT Funding Model:
<1> Lobby
<2> "muh copper"
<3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
<4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
<5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
<6> see step 1

On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones" 
> wrote:
you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and go shut 
shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many like her, 
but this one is mine"

cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make ROW 
great again, we can have hats

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than and 
ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax dollars 
while providing only what they legally have to.

There is no good reason to support that business model.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett" 
> wrote:
It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool. Use 
the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory certainty comes.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Josh Reynolds" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to divide 
the providers into classes.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett" 
> wrote:
But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Josh Reynolds]

Oh damn...

http://fortune.com/2015/08/18/att-nsa/

On Sep 28, 2017 11:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> I can't find anything saying that directly, but it does talk about how
> critical it was to national defense... Big bunkers with huge generators and
> a federal backed monopoly.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 11:01 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
>> I guess I thought Long Lines was a DOD project.but I might have
>> invented that idea.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Steve Jones" 
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Sent: 9/28/2017 11:59:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> out of curiousity, did AT build out long lines on their own dime, or
>> what that government subsidized?
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> AT Funding Model:
>>> <1> Lobby
>>> <2> "muh copper"
>>> <3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
>>> <4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
>>> <5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
>>> <6> see step 1
>>>
>>> On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and
 go shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many
 like her, but this one is mine"

 cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be
 make ROW great again, we can have hats

 On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds 
 wrote:

> It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than
> and ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal 
> tax
> dollars while providing only what they legally have to.
>
> There is no good reason to support that business model.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive
>> tool. Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
>> certainty comes.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
>> divide the providers into classes.
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>
>>> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a
>>> CLEC I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or 
>>> property
>>> allows me to.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>
>>> If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep
>>> your cable there.  Most easements I get are free.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>
>>> Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Josh Reynolds]

I can't find anything saying that directly, but it does talk about how
critical it was to national defense... Big bunkers with huge generators and
a federal backed monopoly.

On Sep 28, 2017 11:01 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> I guess I thought Long Lines was a DOD project.but I might have
> invented that idea.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Steve Jones" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 9/28/2017 11:59:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> out of curiousity, did AT build out long lines on their own dime, or
> what that government subsidized?
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> AT Funding Model:
>> <1> Lobby
>> <2> "muh copper"
>> <3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
>> <4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
>> <5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
>> <6> see step 1
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and
>>> go shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many
>>> like her, but this one is mine"
>>>
>>> cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make
>>> ROW great again, we can have hats
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than
 and ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax
 dollars while providing only what they legally have to.

 There is no good reason to support that business model.

 On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive
> tool. Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
> certainty comes.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
> divide the providers into classes.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a
>> CLEC I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property
>> allows me to.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep
>> your cable there.  Most easements I get are free.
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Adam Moffett]

I guess I thought Long Lines was a DOD project.but I might have 
invented that idea.



-- Original Message --
From: "Steve Jones" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 9/28/2017 11:59:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

out of curiousity, did AT build out long lines on their own dime, or 
what that government subsidized?


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:

AT Funding Model:
<1> Lobby
<2> "muh copper"
<3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
<4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
<5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
<6> see step 1

On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones"  
wrote:
you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together 
and go shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, 
there are many like her, but this one is mine"


cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be 
make ROW great again, we can have hats


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:
It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less 
than and ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those 
federal tax dollars while providing only what they legally have to.


There is no good reason to support that business model.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive 
tool. Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until 
regulatory certainty comes.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 


The Brothers WISP 





From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue 
to divide the providers into classes.


On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a 
CLEC I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or 
property allows me to.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 


The Brothers WISP 





From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep 
your cable there.  Most easements I get are free.


From:Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 


The Brothers WISP 





From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

CLEC is no insurance.
ROW-Easement is insurance.



From:Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Steve Jones]

out of curiousity, did AT build out long lines on their own dime, or what
that government subsidized?

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

> AT Funding Model:
> <1> Lobby
> <2> "muh copper"
> <3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
> <4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
> <5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
> <6> see step 1
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
>> you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and go
>> shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many
>> like her, but this one is mine"
>>
>> cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make
>> ROW great again, we can have hats
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than
>>> and ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax
>>> dollars while providing only what they legally have to.
>>>
>>> There is no good reason to support that business model.
>>>
>>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>>
 It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive
 tool. Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
 certainty comes.



 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 
 
 Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 
 
 The Brothers WISP 
 


 
 --
 *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
 *To: *af@afmug.com
 *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

 The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
 divide the providers into classes.

 On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a
> CLEC I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property
> allows me to.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your
> cable there.  Most easements I get are free.
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> CLEC is no insurance.
> ROW-Easement is insurance.

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Josh Reynolds]

AT Funding Model:
<1> Lobby
<2> "muh copper"
<3> get funds to maintain copper from taxpayers and your competition
<4> deploy fiber and more cell sites instead
<5> find ways to overlay on existing provider
<6> see step 1

On Sep 28, 2017 10:45 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

> you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and go
> shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many
> like her, but this one is mine"
>
> cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make
> ROW great again, we can have hats
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than and
>> ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax
>> dollars while providing only what they legally have to.
>>
>> There is no good reason to support that business model.
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>
>>> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool.
>>> Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
>>> certainty comes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>
>>> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
>>> divide the providers into classes.
>>>
>>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>>
 But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC
 I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows
 me to.



 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 
 
 Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 
 
 The Brothers WISP 
 


 
 --
 *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
 *To: *af@afmug.com
 *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

 If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your
 cable there.  Most easements I get are free.

 *From:* Mike Hammett
 *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

 Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.



 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 
 
 Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 
 
 The Brothers WISP 
 


 
 --
 *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
 *To: *af@afmug.com
 *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

 CLEC is no insurance.
 ROW-Easement is insurance.



 *From:* Mike Hammett
 *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

 A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty
 cheap insurance when doling out fiber.

 The major 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Adam Moffett]

I LOL at "Make ROW great again"


-- Original Message --
From: "Steve Jones" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 9/28/2017 11:45:17 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and 
go shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are 
many like her, but this one is mine"


cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be 
make ROW great again, we can have hats


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:
It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than 
and ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those 
federal tax dollars while providing only what they legally have to.


There is no good reason to support that business model.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive 
tool. Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until 
regulatory certainty comes.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 


The Brothers WISP 





From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to 
divide the providers into classes.


On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a 
CLEC I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or 
property allows me to.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 


The Brothers WISP 





From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep 
your cable there.  Most easements I get are free.


From:Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 


The Brothers WISP 





From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

CLEC is no insurance.
ROW-Easement is insurance.



From:Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is 
pretty cheap insurance when doling out fiber.


The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of 
existing providers is that the bits moved typically aren't 
significantly different. As long as most things generally work, 
people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers constantly, your 
marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works."




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 

Re: [AFMUG] WTB 450i-900mhz used AP's

[Mathew Howard]

I don't have any that are used, but I have some brand new ones sitting on
the shelf that I might be able to be convinced to sell... 900mhz has gotten
a lot noisier around here since we bought them, and I'm not entirely sure
they're worth deploying at this point.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:44 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:

>
> me too - let me know ;)
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:52 AM
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] WTB 450i-900mhz used AP's
>
> Anyone got some used 900mhz 450i Ap's they are looking to get rid of?
> Cant' justify paying full price for these things new to only be putting 1-2
> clients on them...
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Steve Jones]

you should protest this. we can get the whole afmug group together and go
shut shit down. I want a sign that says "this is my sign, there are many
like her, but this one is mine"

cool chants like "what the heck, get rid of ilec" our slogan can be make
ROW great again, we can have hats

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than and
> ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax
> dollars while providing only what they legally have to.
>
> There is no good reason to support that business model.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool.
>> Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
>> certainty comes.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
>> divide the providers into classes.
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>>
>>> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC
>>> I *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows
>>> me to.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>
>>> If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your
>>> cable there.  Most easements I get are free.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>
>>> Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>
>>> CLEC is no insurance.
>>> ROW-Easement is insurance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>>
>>> A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty
>>> cheap insurance when doling out fiber.
>>>
>>> The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing
>>> providers is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different.
>>> As long as most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If
>>> Netflix buffers constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our
>>> Netflix actually works."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] WTB 450i-900mhz used AP's

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

me too - let me know ;)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Kurt Fankhauser 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:52 AM
  Subject: [AFMUG] WTB 450i-900mhz used AP's


  Anyone got some used 900mhz 450i Ap's they are looking to get rid of? Cant' 
justify paying full price for these things new to only be putting 1-2 clients 
on them...

Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages

[Steve Jones]

we do 3, 6, 12 standard, have a 25 thats not advertised directly and a
whole bunch of custom rates

farmers are some of the best customers, they can operate on 512k and rarely
use more than 1mbps

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:24 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> I am offering packages up to 50mbps sustained from most of my towers,
> 100mbps sustained is aviablile in downtown and metro locations were the CPE
> is close to the AP. Line-of-sight REQUIRED for anyone on a 5G package,
> otherwise you have to stay on legacy packages. This helps get people
> motivated to allow me to mount their CPE in a better location that can get
> LOS.
>
> I am using PMP450i AP's running 40mhz channel widths mostly on Omni's. I
> am not worried about maxing out AP's because I know I can switch to Medusa
> AP's if that day finally comes.
>
> I do throttle the streaming for each package at a slower speed than the
> max plan for that package. I disclose that right with the package speed.
> The XBOX updates and regular downloads can take advantage of the faster
> sustained speeds while the streaming throttle keeps their video at a more
> reasonable amount.
>
> Really the pricing is set at how many "concurrent video streams" can your
> connection handle since most people are trying to save money and drop their
> SAT/Cable boxes if you want to watch 3-4 video streams at once then your
> obviously going to need the $129.95 package than allows a lot more
> streaming speed to try to handle this. I feel like the customer is still
> saving money because they probably are saving $100/month by not having
> directTV plus I am getting compensated for providing the bandwidth to them
> that can handle that. (Mosts WISPS in this area can barely provide a fast
> enough connection to watch 1 video stream let alone multiple)
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
>> 5,10,15, & 25Mbps here - higher with PTP dedicated.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 7:55 AM, Jesse Dupont <
>> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:
>>
>>> We have three plans:
>>>
>>> 10, 20,or 30 Mbps (8 Mbps upload) in one company
>>> 8, 16, 25 Mbps (8 Mbps upload) in another company
>>>
>>> Either UBNT or LTE (we only go up to 20 on LTE).
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* Af  on behalf of Dave >> >
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:52:05 AM
>>> *To:* Animal Farm
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] tiers or packages
>>>
>>> How many on here are offering wireless sustained speeds of 5Mbs or
>>> higher?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] WTB 450i-900mhz used AP's

[Colin Stanners]

They're a brand new product and work very nicely (as long as there's no
900mhz noise).. I doubt you could find many at less than 80% of new cost.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> Anyone got some used 900mhz 450i Ap's they are looking to get rid of?
> Cant' justify paying full price for these things new to only be putting 1-2
> clients on them...
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tower construction accident in Miami today

[Steve Jones]

it could be that something hung up and they we "engineering" a solution

ive seen the name tower kings the most in tower incident reports, i dont
know if its that theyre a shoddy outfit or just do alot of tower work

with it being the owners son, i would bet if its the former, that corporate
policy will change, if its the latter, well, thats all part of the game.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> These are some examples..
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 7:29 AM, "Cameron Crum"  wrote:
>
>> That was my first questionwhy were they attached to the gin pole?
>> Trying to save some climbing time as they were raising it? I've erected
>> several towers with Gin poles (the small clamp on variety), both guyed and
>> self support, but It never once occurred to me to attach to one. Not that I
>> could as they were actually poles, but even If I could, it wouldn't seem
>> smart.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> When I was building tall towers that was the only way to do it. My bet
>>> is they were not attached to it though. Those don't collapse because the
>>> wind blows. They obviously must have exceeded the load limits. Maybe they
>>> didn't add in the additional load the wind adds. I'll bet the investigation
>>> will tell. Anyway, when you are up there, that gin pole is hooked into the
>>> base of the tower section you are working at the top of. It is typically
>>> chain boomed to the top of that same section. That gives you the ability to
>>> have the head room above the tower to do jobs like these. There is no other
>>> way to do it. When everyone is paying attention it is safe. I can't ever
>>> recall even having the slightest mishap using one.
>>>
>>> Having said all of that, I never tried to hang a 10,000 pound broadcast
>>> TV antenna either. Really I don't what the weigh but I do know they are
>>> very heavy and have a really large wind load. Having been on towers where
>>> some things did go wrong I can empathize with those guys on the tower.
>>> Hearing the pulley strain under the weight, the gin pole groan as it
>>> started to collapse. The all the sudden the whole things starts to crumble
>>> down in slow motion as you and everything around you crashes downward in a
>>> hell that might last a 30 seconds but seems like it goes on forever.
>>>
>>> Bummer man.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:15 PM Jaime Solorza <
>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 They are huge and scary looking..World's Toughest Jobs show had episode
 on tall tower construction with these gin poles...impressive but I will not
 work on them...my Superman days are long gone

 On Sep 27, 2017 10:11 PM, "Jeremy"  wrote:

 I haven't ever seen them.

 On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 8:44 PM, Jaime Solorza <
 losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Have you seen those gin poles used on large towers?  I have turned
> down high paying gigs on crews like these.  Cranes near guyed towers...not
> my cup of Tecate.
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 8:26 PM, "Jeremy"  wrote:
>
>> They were "attached to the gin pole, when it collapsed and they
>> fell".  Who in the hell ties off to a gin pole?
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Jaime Solorza <
>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We were working in Cedar Hills, Texas when this same company lost
>>> three tower guys near Joe Poole Lake where all those monster towers are
>>> that serve DFW area...sad...
>>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2017 3:13 PM, "Wireless Administrator" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Ouch …..



 http://wsvn.com/news/local/3-dead-after-falling-from-televis
 ion-tower-in-miami-gardens/



 Steve B.

>>>
>>


>>

Re: [AFMUG] Bridgewave Flex4g-Lite

[Brough Turner]

No answers?  Has anyone else tried the Flex4G-Lite???

Dan, did you find the missing 5-7 dB?

Bridgewave seems willing to undercut Siklu and it's 3/3 Gbps versus 2/2
Gbps for Siklu, so I'm planning my first such link for late October.

Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
netBlazr Inc.  | Google+
 | Twitter
 | LinkedIn
 | Facebook
 | Blog
 | Personal website




On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Daniel Gerlach 
wrote:

> Who is using this and give me some installations hints..5-7dBm are missing
>
> thx
>

[AFMUG] WTB 450i-900mhz used AP's

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Anyone got some used 900mhz 450i Ap's they are looking to get rid of? Cant'
justify paying full price for these things new to only be putting 1-2
clients on them...

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Josh Reynolds]

It's not a tool, it's a barrier. You're still considered as less than and
ignored compared to the ILEC who will continue to get those federal tax
dollars while providing only what they legally have to.

There is no good reason to support that business model.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:17 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool.
> Use the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory
> certainty comes.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
> divide the providers into classes.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I
>> *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows
>> me to.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your
>> cable there.  Most easements I get are free.
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> CLEC is no insurance.
>> ROW-Easement is insurance.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty
>> cheap insurance when doling out fiber.
>>
>> The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing
>> providers is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different.
>> As long as most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If
>> Netflix buffers constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our
>> Netflix actually works."
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages

[Kurt Fankhauser]

I am offering packages up to 50mbps sustained from most of my towers,
100mbps sustained is aviablile in downtown and metro locations were the CPE
is close to the AP. Line-of-sight REQUIRED for anyone on a 5G package,
otherwise you have to stay on legacy packages. This helps get people
motivated to allow me to mount their CPE in a better location that can get
LOS.

I am using PMP450i AP's running 40mhz channel widths mostly on Omni's. I am
not worried about maxing out AP's because I know I can switch to Medusa
AP's if that day finally comes.

I do throttle the streaming for each package at a slower speed than the max
plan for that package. I disclose that right with the package speed. The
XBOX updates and regular downloads can take advantage of the faster
sustained speeds while the streaming throttle keeps their video at a more
reasonable amount.

Really the pricing is set at how many "concurrent video streams" can your
connection handle since most people are trying to save money and drop their
SAT/Cable boxes if you want to watch 3-4 video streams at once then your
obviously going to need the $129.95 package than allows a lot more
streaming speed to try to handle this. I feel like the customer is still
saving money because they probably are saving $100/month by not having
directTV plus I am getting compensated for providing the bandwidth to them
that can handle that. (Mosts WISPS in this area can barely provide a fast
enough connection to watch 1 video stream let alone multiple)

[image: Inline image 1]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Jeremy  wrote:

> 5,10,15, & 25Mbps here - higher with PTP dedicated.
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 7:55 AM, Jesse Dupont <
> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:
>
>> We have three plans:
>>
>> 10, 20,or 30 Mbps (8 Mbps upload) in one company
>> 8, 16, 25 Mbps (8 Mbps upload) in another company
>>
>> Either UBNT or LTE (we only go up to 20 on LTE).
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Af  on behalf of Dave 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:52:05 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] tiers or packages
>>
>> How many on here are offering wireless sustained speeds of 5Mbs or higher?
>>
>> --
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Mike Hammett]

It's a tool that gets you what you need. It's a fairly inexpensive tool. Use 
the tool that has been placed at your doorstep until regulatory certainty 
comes. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:14:28 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to divide 
the providers into classes. 


On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there. Most easements I get are free. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




CLEC is no insurance. 
ROW-Easement is insurance. 






From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 





On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 



If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as 
well. 

My memory is fuzzy though. 



On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked. 


On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 


I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job is 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Josh Reynolds]

The whole idea of a CLEC needs to die, and only serves to continue to
divide the providers into classes.

On Sep 28, 2017 9:04 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I
> *MAY* place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows
> me to.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your
> cable there.  Most easements I get are free.
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> CLEC is no insurance.
> ROW-Easement is insurance.
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty
> cheap insurance when doling out fiber.
>
> The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing
> providers is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different.
> As long as most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If
> Netflix buffers constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our
> Netflix actually works."
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> We did at our fiber company.
>
> I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above
> 60% of people only have access to a single provider.
>
> If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M,
> and allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so
> overwhelmingly stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who
> just haven't expanded yet, and the general population of this country...
> And solely provides more welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco
> monopolies.
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> You're wrong.  :-p
>
> Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something
> else like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if
> you need to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can
> just apply and get the ROW access you desire.
>
> They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering
> and transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the
> opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the
> customer.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike 

Re: [AFMUG] Tower construction accident in Miami today

[Kurt Fankhauser]

I know nothing about these "large" gin poles other than it makes sense that
they are the only way to get heavy stuff up on the tower. Everyone is
saying why would you attach to them like they are some flimsy thinwall
steel pipe but these things are basically like another extension of the
tower itself, very large pieces. If its attached properly to the tower why
couldn't you attach to it? That's what I keep thinking...

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

> That was my first questionwhy were they attached to the gin pole?
> Trying to save some climbing time as they were raising it? I've erected
> several towers with Gin poles (the small clamp on variety), both guyed and
> self support, but It never once occurred to me to attach to one. Not that I
> could as they were actually poles, but even If I could, it wouldn't seem
> smart.
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> When I was building tall towers that was the only way to do it. My bet is
>> they were not attached to it though. Those don't collapse because the wind
>> blows. They obviously must have exceeded the load limits. Maybe they didn't
>> add in the additional load the wind adds. I'll bet the investigation will
>> tell. Anyway, when you are up there, that gin pole is hooked into the base
>> of the tower section you are working at the top of. It is typically chain
>> boomed to the top of that same section. That gives you the ability to have
>> the head room above the tower to do jobs like these. There is no other way
>> to do it. When everyone is paying attention it is safe. I can't ever recall
>> even having the slightest mishap using one.
>>
>> Having said all of that, I never tried to hang a 10,000 pound broadcast
>> TV antenna either. Really I don't what the weigh but I do know they are
>> very heavy and have a really large wind load. Having been on towers where
>> some things did go wrong I can empathize with those guys on the tower.
>> Hearing the pulley strain under the weight, the gin pole groan as it
>> started to collapse. The all the sudden the whole things starts to crumble
>> down in slow motion as you and everything around you crashes downward in a
>> hell that might last a 30 seconds but seems like it goes on forever.
>>
>> Bummer man.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:15 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> They are huge and scary looking..World's Toughest Jobs show had episode
>>> on tall tower construction with these gin poles...impressive but I will not
>>> work on them...my Superman days are long gone
>>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2017 10:11 PM, "Jeremy"  wrote:
>>>
>>> I haven't ever seen them.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 8:44 PM, Jaime Solorza <
>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Have you seen those gin poles used on large towers?  I have turned down
 high paying gigs on crews like these.  Cranes near guyed towers...not my
 cup of Tecate.

 On Sep 27, 2017 8:26 PM, "Jeremy"  wrote:

> They were "attached to the gin pole, when it collapsed and they
> fell".  Who in the hell ties off to a gin pole?
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Jaime Solorza <
> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We were working in Cedar Hills, Texas when this same company lost
>> three tower guys near Joe Poole Lake where all those monster towers are
>> that serve DFW area...sad...
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2017 3:13 PM, "Wireless Administrator" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ouch …..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://wsvn.com/news/local/3-dead-after-falling-from-televis
>>> ion-tower-in-miami-gardens/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve B.
>>>
>>
>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages

[Jeremy]

5,10,15, & 25Mbps here - higher with PTP dedicated.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 7:55 AM, Jesse Dupont  wrote:

> We have three plans:
>
> 10, 20,or 30 Mbps (8 Mbps upload) in one company
> 8, 16, 25 Mbps (8 Mbps upload) in another company
>
> Either UBNT or LTE (we only go up to 20 on LTE).
>
> --
> *From:* Af  on behalf of Dave 
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:52:05 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] tiers or packages
>
> How many on here are offering wireless sustained speeds of 5Mbs or higher?
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Mike Hammett]

But if you have a CLEC you *CAN* place it there. If I don't have a CLEC I *MAY* 
place it there... if whomever owns that easement or property allows me to. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:03:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there. Most easements I get are free. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




CLEC is no insurance. 
ROW-Easement is insurance. 






From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 





On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 



If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as 
well. 

My memory is fuzzy though. 



On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked. 


On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 


I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job is 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[chuck]

If you do not have an easement, you do not have the right to keep your cable 
there.  Most easements I get are free.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


CLEC is no insurance.  
ROW-Easement is insurance.  



From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works."




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider.

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies.




On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  You're wrong.  :-p

  Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire.

  They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Josh Reynolds" 
  To: af@afmug.com

  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


  If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

  Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that 
as well.

  My memory is fuzzy though.

  On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

  
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 


  I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job 
is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Mike Hammett]

Sure, easements are insurance, but not always cheap. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:54:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 




CLEC is no insurance. 
ROW-Easement is insurance. 






From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 





On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 



If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as 
well. 

My memory is fuzzy though. 



On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked. 


On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 


I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job is 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Josh Reynolds]

We did get easement agreements for many locations.

On Sep 28, 2017 8:54 AM,  wrote:

> CLEC is no insurance.
> ROW-Easement is insurance.
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty
> cheap insurance when doling out fiber.
>
> The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing
> providers is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different.
> As long as most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If
> Netflix buffers constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our
> Netflix actually works."
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> We did at our fiber company.
>
> I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above
> 60% of people only have access to a single provider.
>
> If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M,
> and allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so
> overwhelmingly stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who
> just haven't expanded yet, and the general population of this country...
> And solely provides more welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco
> monopolies.
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
> You're wrong.  :-p
>
> Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something
> else like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if
> you need to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can
> just apply and get the ROW access you desire.
>
> They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering
> and transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the
> opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the
> customer.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers
> from throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own.
>
> Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to
> that as well.
>
> My memory is fuzzy though.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>>
>> There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.
>>
>> Also, as consumers, if net 

Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages

[Jesse Dupont]

We have three plans:

10, 20,or 30 Mbps (8 Mbps upload) in one company
8, 16, 25 Mbps (8 Mbps upload) in another company

Either UBNT or LTE (we only go up to 20 on LTE).


From: Af  on behalf of Dave 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:52:05 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] tiers or packages

How many on here are offering wireless sustained speeds of 5Mbs or higher?

--
[cid:part1.9775A10F.1820E988@wletc.com]

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[chuck]

CLEC is no insurance.  
ROW-Easement is insurance.  



From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber.

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works."




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


We did at our fiber company. 

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider.

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies.




On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

  You're wrong.  :-p

  Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire.

  They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Josh Reynolds" 
  To: af@afmug.com

  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


  If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 

  Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that 
as well.

  My memory is fuzzy though.

  On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

  
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 


  I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job 
is

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Mike Hammett]

A couple thousand dollars for an attorney to make you a CLEC is pretty cheap 
insurance when doling out fiber. 

The major impediment to more providers and more expansion of existing providers 
is that the bits moved typically aren't significantly different. As long as 
most things generally work, people aren't going to leave. If Netflix buffers 
constantly, your marketing becomes a lot easier, "Our Netflix actually works." 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:46:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


We did at our fiber company. 


I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60% of 
people only have access to a single provider. 


If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M, and 
allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so overwhelmingly 
stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who just haven't expanded 
yet, and the general population of this country... And solely provides more 
welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco monopolies. 







On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




You're wrong. :-p 

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else 
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you need 
to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just apply and 
get the ROW access you desire. 

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and 
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the 
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the 
customer. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 



If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from 
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own. 


Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that as 
well. 


My memory is fuzzy though. 



On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth? 


There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not. 


Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked. 


On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp 




I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job is 

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Josh Reynolds]

We did at our fiber company.

I don't remember the exact percentage, but I do remember it being above 60%
of people only have access to a single provider.

If you remove the ROW access for BIAS providers, lower "broadband" to 10M,
and allow providers to throttle other content, the odds are so
overwhelmingly stacked against new regional ISPs, existing providers who
just haven't expanded yet, and the general population of this country...
And solely provides more welfare to expand the existing cable and Telco
monopolies.




On Sep 28, 2017 7:37 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

You're wrong.  :-p

Did anyone actually utilize that ROW access under NN and not something else
like being a CLEC? Spend a couple thousand bucks and you're a CLEC, if you
need to be in your jurisdiction for ROW access. Around here you can just
apply and get the ROW access you desire.

They weren't directly throttled, but yes, ran through congested peering and
transit. So what if they do? Business choice. That gives you or me the
opportunity to come through with Netflix that doesn't suck and steal the
customer.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 




Midwest Internet Exchange 



The Brothers WISP 




--
*From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:33:20 AM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

If I'm wrong, say so, but NN seems to be the only thing keep providers from
throttling down third party eyeball content to prioritize their own.

Also, that ROW access many of us enjoyed as BIAS providers was tied to that
as well.

My memory is fuzzy though.

On Sep 28, 2017 7:23 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> The only way forward is to repeal Net Neutrality.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:30:44 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?
>
> There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.
>
> Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-
>> net-neutrality-isp
>>
>>
>> I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
>> is
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages

[Mike Hammett]

Sure, some geographies will be more difficult than others, but we all should be 
offering it somewhere . 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:31:55 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages 



there are plenty of places still on our network where canopy 900 fsk is still 
all that is available 
but we are working on it :) 



- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:52 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages 


I'd hope we all did. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Dave" < dmilho...@wletc.com > 
To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:52:05 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] tiers or packages 

How many on here are offering wireless sustained speeds of 5Mbs or higher? 


-- 

Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

there are plenty of places still on our network where canopy 900 fsk is still 
all that is available
but we are working on it :)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages


  I'd hope we all did.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Dave" 
  To: "Animal Farm" 
  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:52:05 AM
  Subject: [AFMUG] tiers or packages

  How many on here are offering wireless sustained speeds of 5Mbs or higher?


  -- 

Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages

[David Coudron]

We are using the Mimosa PTMP technology.   So far, it is performing quite well. 
  We have very folks using the 100 Mbps plans, but quite a few on the 25 Mbps 
plans.   It seems to be a very regional thing, in some areas they all want the 
speed, in other areas everyone signs up for the 10 Mbps packages.  

David Coudron
david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  Mobile: 612-991-7474
 
Advantenon, Inc.       
i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447  | 
 www.advantenon.com  |  Phone: 800-704-4720  |  Local: 612-454-1545 



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:25 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages

What are you using for the 100 Mbps packages?

David Coudron wrote:
>
> We do 4, 10, 25 and 100 Mbps packages for our customers. Businesses 
> can go higher, but usually require a PTP link.
>
> Thanks,
>
> *David Coudron*
>
> david.coud...@advantenon.com |*Mobile: 
> *612-991-7474
>
> *Advantenon, Inc. 
> *cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0 vantenon>cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0 antenon>cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0 antenon>cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0 >
>
> i...@advantenon.com |3500 Vicksburg Lane 
> N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
> 55447 |www.advantenon.com |*Phone:*800-704-4720 
> |*Local: 
> *612-454-1545
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:52 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] tiers or packages
>
> How many on here are offering wireless sustained speeds of 5Mbs or higher?
>
> --
>
>
> 
>  
>   Virus-free. www.avg.com
>  tm_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: [AFMUG] Tower construction accident in Miami today

[Cameron Crum]

That was my first questionwhy were they attached to the gin pole?
Trying to save some climbing time as they were raising it? I've erected
several towers with Gin poles (the small clamp on variety), both guyed and
self support, but It never once occurred to me to attach to one. Not that I
could as they were actually poles, but even If I could, it wouldn't seem
smart.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> When I was building tall towers that was the only way to do it. My bet is
> they were not attached to it though. Those don't collapse because the wind
> blows. They obviously must have exceeded the load limits. Maybe they didn't
> add in the additional load the wind adds. I'll bet the investigation will
> tell. Anyway, when you are up there, that gin pole is hooked into the base
> of the tower section you are working at the top of. It is typically chain
> boomed to the top of that same section. That gives you the ability to have
> the head room above the tower to do jobs like these. There is no other way
> to do it. When everyone is paying attention it is safe. I can't ever recall
> even having the slightest mishap using one.
>
> Having said all of that, I never tried to hang a 10,000 pound broadcast TV
> antenna either. Really I don't what the weigh but I do know they are very
> heavy and have a really large wind load. Having been on towers where some
> things did go wrong I can empathize with those guys on the tower. Hearing
> the pulley strain under the weight, the gin pole groan as it started to
> collapse. The all the sudden the whole things starts to crumble down in
> slow motion as you and everything around you crashes downward in a hell
> that might last a 30 seconds but seems like it goes on forever.
>
> Bummer man.
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:15 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> They are huge and scary looking..World's Toughest Jobs show had episode
>> on tall tower construction with these gin poles...impressive but I will not
>> work on them...my Superman days are long gone
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2017 10:11 PM, "Jeremy"  wrote:
>>
>> I haven't ever seen them.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 8:44 PM, Jaime Solorza > > wrote:
>>
>>> Have you seen those gin poles used on large towers?  I have turned down
>>> high paying gigs on crews like these.  Cranes near guyed towers...not my
>>> cup of Tecate.
>>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2017 8:26 PM, "Jeremy"  wrote:
>>>
 They were "attached to the gin pole, when it collapsed and they fell".
 Who in the hell ties off to a gin pole?

 On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Jaime Solorza <
 losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We were working in Cedar Hills, Texas when this same company lost
> three tower guys near Joe Poole Lake where all those monster towers are
> that serve DFW area...sad...
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 3:13 PM, "Wireless Administrator" 
> wrote:
>
>> Ouch …..
>>
>>
>>
>> http://wsvn.com/news/local/3-dead-after-falling-from-
>> television-tower-in-miami-gardens/
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve B.
>>
>

>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages

[Dave]

Definitely.. The key word here is sustained. :)


On 09/28/2017 08:24 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:

What are you using for the 100 Mbps packages?

David Coudron wrote:


We do 4, 10, 25 and 100 Mbps packages for our customers. Businesses 
can go higher, but usually require a PTP link.


Thanks,

*David Coudron*

david.coud...@advantenon.com 
|*Mobile: *612-991-7474


*Advantenon, Inc. 
*cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0


i...@advantenon.com |3500 Vicksburg Lane 
N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 55447 
|www.advantenon.com |*Phone:*800-704-4720 
|*Local: *612-454-1545


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
*Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:52 AM
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] tiers or packages

How many on here are offering wireless sustained speeds of 5Mbs or 
higher?


--


 
Virus-free. www.avg.com 
 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>




--

Re: [AFMUG] tiers or packages

[Jay Weekley]

What are you using for the 100 Mbps packages?

David Coudron wrote:


We do 4, 10, 25 and 100 Mbps packages for our customers. Businesses 
can go higher, but usually require a PTP link.


Thanks,

*David Coudron*

david.coud...@advantenon.com |*Mobile: 
*612-991-7474


*Advantenon, Inc. 
*cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0


i...@advantenon.com |3500 Vicksburg Lane 
N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN 
55447 |www.advantenon.com |*Phone:*800-704-4720 |*Local: 
*612-454-1545


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
*Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:52 AM
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] tiers or packages

How many on here are offering wireless sustained speeds of 5Mbs or higher?

--


 
	Virus-free. www.avg.com 
 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: [AFMUG] Multipath fading for a laymen (visuals please)

[Steve Jones]

Light wont cancel

On Sep 28, 2017 7:02 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> I don't understand why you can try to come up with examples around PSI but
> light and pictures are hard.
>
> "Hands on" kinda guy, eh?
>
> On Sep 27, 2017 10:51 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
>> If i punch water (giving it a hypothetical 2d plane) with 360 psi
>> pressure, it should send 1 psi out in each 1 degree? Correct?
>>  Each x distance of water absorbs y of that 1 psi?
>> Say its 1psi per inch som meter would measure 0? 1/2 would measure .o5?
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2017 10:45 PM, "Steve Jones" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Chuck... make a water video.
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2017 10:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> Oil film on water.  The colors are due to cancellation of some
>>> wavelengths.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film_interference
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:05 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Multipath fading for a laymen (visuals please)
>>>
>>> Ductings easy, i can put it through a duct, if need be i make a duct out
>>> of ice to show the temp and humidity.
>>>
>>> I can show noise with a bright light close and dim light far
>>>
>>> But how do i replicate cancellation. I assume water, but timing the
>>> ripples might be an issue. Anybody have a reflective ripple cancellation to
>>> still water video? That would be the bees knees.
>>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2017 10:00 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>>
>>> "Sometimes the wind blows and the leaves move. This changes where the
>>> light moves."
>>>
>>> Almost everything in RF can be visualized with light. Some things are
>>> harder than others (ducting for example).
>>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2017 9:49 PM, "Steve Jones" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Laymen, laymen, laymen.

 How do i visualize the fact that the same thing at the same level, can
 cancel itself out?
 Beyond that, how do i show the variance factors, temp, humidity, radio
 mites?

 Even better would be a live display of reasonable things they
 understand.

 My old man would be easy. Id smash his right index finger, then smash
 his left, hed understand because his right finger quit hurting so much.

 But i assume the soft people of today that wont work, theyll just talk
 about how bith fingers hurt

 On Sep 27, 2017 9:41 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
 wrote:

 Use an adjustable beam version...good way to visualize

 On Sep 27, 2017 8:28 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

 Shine a flashlight through a bush.

 If you're lucky sometimes the light reflects off multiple leaves onto
 roughly the same spot. (Constructive reflection)

 On Sep 27, 2017 8:43 PM, "Steve Jones" 
 wrote:

> I have a location thats solely down to multipath reflective fading.
> The best analogy i have is noise cancelling headphones, which makes total
> sense to me... but still the same dull look. Is there aome rf for dummies
> visuals?
>




>>>
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] AT & T Rural broadband

[Mike Hammett]

Brian Webster would be the guy to tell us, but I'm sure he's tied up with WECAT 
stuff. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:54:20 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AT & T Rural broadband 


How many areas are wisps NOT in. 


On Sep 28, 2017 7:39 AM, "Dave" < dmilho...@wletc.com > wrote: 



+1 I could see that for sure. 
But we could get into the area they are not and would not go much faster. 



On 09/28/2017 07:35 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote: 



It would mean cell cos get more federal funding. A lot more. 


On Sep 28, 2017 12:37 AM, "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 



I don't really see how redefining "broadband" to 10/1 is a bad thing... 
shouldn't that mean that other companies wouldn't (in theory, anyway) be able 
to get funding to overbuild areas where we are already providing 10mbps, which 
they currently could, unless we have at least 25mbps? 



On Sep 28, 2017 12:30 AM, "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Off the topic, but we have a customer who keeps trying to get our cs to ise the 
term broadband. Hes limited to 6x2 and thinks (semi correctly) he can fule an 
fcc complaint if they use that word. Hes also accused us of violating federal 
monopoly laws because we have an exclusive contract on the grain elevator in 
his town. 
If i could release emails, voicemails, and call recordings from this guy over 
thelast ten years, i would win the internet and nobody in this industry would 
ever hate a customer less. 



On Sep 27, 2017 10:05 PM, "Josh Reynolds" < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



As a note to this... 

"As always, you're not going to be blown away by the performance. 
You're paying $60 per month for 10Mbps downloads and 1Mbps uploads, 
which doesn't meet the FCC's definition of broadband." 

https://twitter.com/JRosenworcel/status/910514607743217665 

"#FCC proposing to lower US #broadband standard from 25 to 10 Mbps. 
This is crazy. Lowering standards doesn't solve our broadband 
problems." 

Why would they do such a thing? 

Oh, so they can get more of our tax dollars to roll out competition in 
your area. Funded by you. 


On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 
> Theyre replacing a tower here five feet from the current tower. I assume my 
> bosses taxes are helping to fund this assholes 
> 
> On Sep 27, 2017 6:50 PM, "Tushar Patel" < tpa...@ecpi.com > wrote: 
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/27/att-rural-wireless-internet-expands-to-9-more-states/
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 












-- 

Re: [AFMUG] AT & T Rural broadband

[Josh Reynolds]

How many areas are wisps NOT in.

On Sep 28, 2017 7:39 AM, "Dave"  wrote:

> +1 I could see that for sure.
> But we could get into the area they are not and would not go much faster.
>
>
> On 09/28/2017 07:35 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> It would mean cell cos get more federal funding. A lot more.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 12:37 AM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
> I don't really see how redefining "broadband" to 10/1 is a bad thing...
> shouldn't that mean that other companies wouldn't (in theory, anyway) be
> able to get funding to overbuild areas where we are already providing
> 10mbps, which they currently could, unless we have at least 25mbps?
>
> On Sep 28, 2017 12:30 AM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>
>> Off the topic, but we  have a customer who keeps trying to get our cs to
>> ise the term broadband. Hes limited to 6x2 and thinks (semi correctly) he
>> can fule an fcc complaint if they use that word. Hes also accused us of
>> violating federal monopoly laws because we have an exclusive contract on
>> the grain elevator in his town.
>> If i could release emails, voicemails, and call recordings from this guy
>> over thelast ten years, i would win the internet and nobody in this
>> industry would ever hate a customer less.
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2017 10:05 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>
>> As a note to this...
>>
>> "As always, you're not going to be blown away by the performance.
>> You're paying $60 per month for 10Mbps downloads and 1Mbps uploads,
>> which doesn't meet the FCC's definition of broadband."
>>
>> https://twitter.com/JRosenworcel/status/910514607743217665
>>
>> "#FCC proposing to lower US #broadband standard from 25 to 10 Mbps.
>> This is crazy. Lowering standards doesn't solve our broadband
>> problems."
>>
>> Why would they do such a thing?
>>
>> Oh, so they can get more of our tax dollars to roll out competition in
>> your area. Funded by you.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>> > Theyre replacing a tower here five feet from the current tower. I
>> assume my
>> > bosses taxes are helping to fund this assholes
>> >
>> > On Sep 27, 2017 6:50 PM, "Tushar Patel"  wrote:
>> >
>> > https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/27/att-rural-wireless-inter
>> net-expands-to-9-more-states/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>