Re: [discuss] annoying

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 22 March 2005 02:06, CPHennessy wrote:
> On Tuesday 22 March 2005 02:20, Jack & Naree wrote:
> >  [ MODERATED ] ***
> > I hate the automatic formatting in Openoffice, it's so
> > annoying, MS Word is such a refreshing respite from the
> > restrictiveness of OO.

Choice is a good thing.  I don't think that anyone in this project 
would ever claim that OOo is perfect.  

BTW, Jack, given the choices that ARE available on the market 
(Microsoft Word; WordPerfect; AbiWord; OOo; Koffice; TextMaker; 
StarOffice, etc.) when someone comes into an open source project 
and leads their email with a sharply worded criticism, I often 
wonder why that person bothers to spend the time composing the 
email, rather than simply stop using the program, especially when 
the program is free, and the user has lost no money in purchasing 
the program.

Robust and critical discussion on open source lists are important to 
the improvement of open source code.  And yet when sometimes the 
subtlies of a poster's message can sometimes leave me wondering if 
the sender is a troll.  I understand a troll who, who whatever 
reason, derives personal entertainment from starting arguments on 
lists.  

I personally appreciate that you have tried the product, and yet, as 
CPH pointed out, the fact that you complained so bitterly, coupled 
with the fact that you are obviously a sophisticated user capable 
of finding the simple fixes for your problems causes me to wonder 
if you are trolling.  

When I see a message from a troll, I usually reply only to urge 
other members of the list to evaluate if they agree that the troll 
is, in fact, a troll; and if they agree, to consider ignoring that 
person altogether, as trolls literally feed off of the energy of 
others.  Trolls appear to LIKE wasting others' time; that is the 
very definition of a troll, IMHO.  

I'm thinking that you probably are trolling, and so I will ignore 
the detailed issues that you have raised.  If you are not trolling, 
and you do, indeed, have questions that you would like answered, 
then you will probably get the most detailed answers from the 
users@openoffice.org list, as the users list is a gathering of 
people who like solving problems such as those you have raised. 

You can also find tech support at the link below.  If you're not 
trolling, of course. 

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,76/Itemid,4/

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Re: [discuss] Managed Code

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 22 March 2005 21:44, Travis Beaty wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I'm not on the development team, but the idea of moving to .NET /
> Mono would be quite interesting.  

Ick.  Why would anyone use .NET when they could use Mono, which is 
good and open?  I have heard developers say good things 
about .NET's functionality, but why go for lockdown when open is 
available?  Obviously, there are practical benefits to working with 
Microsoft products, but the lockdown often makes those practical 
benefits not so practical in the long run. 

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Re: [discuss] Re: OOo and OpenDocument mentioned in TheAge

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi, 

Sorry for not snipping, but I wanted to be able to preserve the full 
context.

On Wednesday 23 March 2005 08:26, Chuck wrote:
> Lars D. Noodén wrote:
> > OOo and OpenDocument both get a mention towards the middle of
> > the article:
> >
> >  Nigel McFarlane.  "Firefox explorers." The Age.  22 Mar 2005.
> >
> > http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/03/21/253920087.html
> >?oneclick=true
> >
> >
> > ... "I'm staggered and close to offended that some
> > businesses choose the risk of vendor lock-in, and I'm
> > staggered by the timidity of some IT managers," he says.
>
> I think the problem is that nobody wants to be the manager who
> recommended software that was later found out to have some
> incompatibility with MS file formats, the format that 98% of the
> rest of the business world uses.

This story reflects what Bhaskar Chakravorti calls "demi-Moore's 
law."  For those of you who like Clayton Christensen, you will also 
be interested in Chakravorti's book, "The Slow Pace of Fast 
Change".  Basically Chakravorti unpacks the chicken-and-egg problem 
of how to get a new innovation like OOo into a highly networked 
market like the software market.  

Basically, demi-Moore's law says that technology will be adopted at 
somewhat less than the pace of innovation, in part, because demand 
and supply side players hang back to see which way competitive 
battles will play out, and then everyone jumps on board when it 
becomes apparent which way the shift is going to lean.  It's what 
Chakravorti calls the "inefficiencies of networked economies."

Here is a link for Chakravorti's book:

http://www.slowpacefastchange.com/

To me and our film, "The Digital Tipping Point," the interesting 
thing is the time of approaching the point where demi-Moore's law 
runs in reverse.  To me, that is why we will see a rather dramatic 
tipping point in the adoption of GNU/Linux and OOo and other free 
open source software projects.  At some point, there are going to 
be enough major demand side players and supply side players who are 
using OOo that demi-Moore's law will run in reverse, and the 
inefficiencies of the networked software market will start to run 
in FAVOR of OOo, and AGAINST Microsoft!  

So Chakravorti works well with Christensen's team because 
Christensen's team explains the MOTIVATION for individual overshot 
customers to adopt FLOSS; and Chakravorti gives us sort of a 
fly-over shot of which way demi-Moore's law is running, and how 
fast.  

Another interesting thing about this demi-Moore's law is that it 
helps you (or at least me) think of how to when the digital tipping 
point might arrive, using tide flows as an analogy.  Here in San 
Francisco, we have huge tide changes.  The whole huge San Francisco 
Bay flows out through the relatively narrow Golden Gate which is 
spanned by the Golden Gate Bridge.  Sometimes when the tide change 
is really big, say an eight foot (2.5 meter) difference, you can 
almost feel slackwater approaching.  A big tide change means that 
all the water that wanted to rush out of the Bay now wants to rush 
back in.  

So at the height of the on-coming tide, standing on the Golden Gate 
Bridge, you can look down from the Bridge and see the water flowing 
rapidly into the Bay, like some raging river almost.  As slackwater 
approaches, you can feel the river slow down, and then there is a 
curious bit of time where the Bay is still at the height of 
slackwater.  Then, several hours later, the river is flowing back 
out to the Pacific Ocean, once again at a surprisingly quick clip 
for such a large body of water.  Major ocean liners will time their 
arrival into the bay to coincide with an in-coming tide, rather 
than risk the fuel and rocks at the mouth of the bay in the fury of 
the out-going tide.  

I'm a lawyer, and have been working in the law in once capacity or 
another since 1985, and I remember when the tide of demi-Moore's 
law switched against WordPerfect and in favor of Microsoft Word.  
It seemed that OVERNIGHT most users, and even most law firms, 
switched en masse from WP to Word.  I was shocked, because I 
thought (and still think) that WP was vastly superior to Word.  

But Word was a disruptive technology for WP, and a sustaining 
technology for Microsoft.  Word was more convenient to acquire and 
use.  This was a classic example of demi-Moore's law and disruption 
acting in concert.  Word came easily pre-packaged in many cases 
with Windows (ease of acquisition) and Word was more easy to use 
than WordPerfect (mostly because Microsoft broke WordPerfect on 
Windows).  Microsoft had connections in its Windows OEM 
distribution channel (ease of acquisition) that WP could not match, 
and so it was able to "incent" key supply-side players into 
cooperating.  Before Microsoft used its lock-in power, no 
supply-side player could touch WordPerfect, the unquestioned market 
leader.  

IMHO, the same thing is going to happen to OOo and Word.  Obviously, 

Re: [discuss] Re: annoying

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 22 March 2005 20:14, Bill Sharpe wrote:
> "Jonathon Blake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> CPH wrote:
> > Almost all of your other points are also possible to change.
>
> The only thing that _might_ be an issue is "slow opening" in
> comparison to MSOffice.
>
> Everything else he complains about can be configured by the user.

Right.  Which makes me wonder why he didn't ask if those things 
could be changed.  I think he was trolling. 

>
> -
> I think he is implying that the points he's bringing up should be
> the default.

This could be true.  It would have been nice if he had made that 
point more clearly.  His point was obscured by his rhetoric.  

>
> And in a couple of cases I agree with him.

I can see that.  

>
> But I still like the product. I expect by the formal 2.0 release
> OOo will load faster.

+1, which also makes me wonder why he didn't ask about solutions.  
He was just interested in trolling, IMHO.  

>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
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Re: [discuss] Re: OT: Bill Gates... Good or Evil?

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Friday 25 March 2005 03:04, Johan Vromans wrote:
> Justin Clift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > http://www.ultimatejudgment.com/Bill-Gates
>
> I don't think OOo will benefit from this.

As long as people don't take the Gates discussion seriously, we will 
be okay.  

I agree, though that this should be moved to social.  Also, I 
personally am not going to participate in any political discussions 
on any OOo lists.  We have active members from all different 
political dimensions.  And a few from different time / space 
dimensions, too.  Heh.

>
> -- Johan
>
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Re: [discuss] Open Office and my blood pressure 2

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Thursday 24 March 2005 13:14, Andrew Carroll wrote:
> Okay, I was pretty harsh in my last post.  There are some
> features that I like.  

Good.  Glad that you found some redeeming features.  

> I like the fact that I can save documents into Microsoft Office
> format so other people who use MS products can use the documents
> I create.  That part of Open Office _almost_ makes it worth it.

Softmaker also does this.  See below.  

>
> I'm sure that Open Office wasn't easy to put together!  I feel
> that the Open Office developers have done a terrific job yet I
> also feel that I wish that Open Office wasn't so frustrating to
> use at times.

Keep banging away at your favorite bugs and requesting your favorite 
features.  It is possible to actually mount a campaign to have your 
bug recognized and prioritized.  Daniel Carrera has succeeded at 
doing this type of campaign in the past.  So pick your most hateful 
bug or two, and campaign to have it squashed.

There are also other good open source office suites, such as AbiWord 
and Koffice.  There are also commerical alternatives such as 
Softmaker in addition to the familiar WordPerfect and of course the 
Borg sells a product that is quite popular.;-)   

If you like light and fast office suites that load lightning fast 
and don't crash, and don't need an open source alternative, you 
might like Softmaker's products.  I have absolutely no commercial 
ties to Softmaker, but I have met the CEO a couple of times, and he 
is really a decent person.  Here's their link:

http://www.softmaker.com/english/

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Re: [discuss] IRC Instructions.

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi Daniel,

On Thursday 24 March 2005 19:29, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> Greetings everyone,

snip...

> I've just added instructions to help people get started with IRC.
> They cover both Gaim and Chatzilla.
>
> http://native-lang.openoffice.org/conference/instructions/

Thanks for these instructions.  

>
> Hopefully these will lower the barrier for people wanting to
> participate in the IRC talks.

I have a few small issues with the instructions.  Starting with 
instruction zero is funny and cool.  It mimics the Richard Stallman 
method of numbering his four freedoms.  However, IMHO, starting 
with zero confuses people.  Maybe that's just a North America 
perspective, I don't know.  But I have always started counting with 
one.  

Also, I am probably going to have to use Jabber.  I have never been 
able to get Gaim or Gabber to work for me.  Frankly, though, that's 
not an issue for me, personally, because I don't usually 
participate in chats.  I don't know why.  I guess they still seem a 
little bit too unfamiliar for me.  

But you might want to let SuSE users know that they can use Jabber, 
too.  I have used it about three times, and I was actually able to 
get it working. 

I think that your instructions are good, though.  IMHO, we need more 
dirt simple instructions like this on the OOo site.  I have added a 
link here:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,89/Itemid,4/

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[discuss] Novell and OOo for slick new Novell desktop

[Christian Einfeldt]

Linspire is the slickest GNU/Linux desktop that I have seen so far, 
but now here comes Novell with some slick new stuff that it claims 
will be slicker than Microsoft.  

One of the cool things that I like about this approach is that the 
Linux distros are not slamming each other.  They are focusing their 
competitive ads on Microsoft, not each other.  Here's the story.

http://computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/linux/story/0,10801,100574,00.html

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Re: [discuss] Microsoft Partially Opens Proprietary XML Format

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Friday 25 March 2005 11:34, M. Fioretti wrote:
> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/25/1523253

Could one of you tech wizards on the list here tell me if this is 
"open" in the same sense that "shared source" is "open".  Meaning, 
of course, a trap.  I understand that the shared source initiative 
is legally a way of tainting developers who participate in the 
shared source initiative.  Essentially, the programmers have to 
sign some sort of NDA saying that they won't disclose stuff they 
have learned in the shared source program, and that sets up MS with 
a cause of action against anyone who would later hire them on the 
grounds that their knowledge was derivative of MS's IP.  

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Re: [discuss] Re: Java fallout: OO.o 2.0 and the FOSS community

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 29 March 2005 07:30, Johan Vromans wrote:
> Enrique <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > The name is OpenOffice.org. Let me stress *Open* and *org*
> > The FLOSS community is not "just another" target.
> >
> >> and that possible losses in the FLOSS community will be
> >> reverted when, in some later stage, OOos requirement for Java
> >> can be fulfilled by GCJ. Additional advantage is that GCJ can
> >> compile to native code.
> >
> > I see this quite possible and indeed a breaktrough
> > BTW, an example more of the power of open development: The
> > community doing what proprietary vendors seem unable or not
> > motivated to do.
>
> Caolan McNamara already replied with some technical details that
> will make this argument moot in short term. The community seem to
> have (almost) accomplished "what proprietary vendors seem unable
> or not motivated to do."

+1

One hopes that this discussion over Java will help us wean ourselves 
from our primary corporate sponsor.  I am grateful to Sun for open 
sourcing OOo, but I am concerned about the visceral reaction of 
many community members against Java.  Hopefully, those folks who 
don't like Java who have the skills to go forward with a more open 
solution will do so.  

IMHO, competition is a good thing.  Richard Stallman was motivated 
to help start the FSF by his disdain for the lockdown around him.  
Hopefully, this increased emphasis on Java Runtime Enfironment in 
OOo will similarly motivate developers to provide some competition 
to Sun.  In response, the Sun developers will probably want to show 
their skills, and the Java solutions will also improve.

I must admit that as a simple end user who really loves OOo, I find 
myself worried that knowledgable programmers are concerned.  On the 
other hand, I also see that one person commented that Apache uses 
Java, or can use Java, and so I'm not sure whether the concerns are 
overstated.

At any rate, I was also impressed by the strength of the comments to 
the effect that open source will tend to route around obstacles.  
This tends to bring us once again back to the notion of competition 
helping incent people to try harder to do better.  

From a business perspective, it seems that Java is in the process of 
being commoditized by Mono and gcj, and so maybe Java is at the end 
of the operational cycle.  Maybe now is the time for Sun to head 
Eric Raymond's call to let Java go.  Let the community do the work 
of end-of-life support for Java, thereby improving it in the 
process.  

Some of the commentors talked about Koffice and AbiWord, etc.  IMHO, 
Sun and our community leads should remember that as OOo's features 
become more slick, and our demand on memory resources increase, we 
might be leaving behind our best customers, those who are 
interested in price, and convenience of use and acquisition.  
Koffice and AbiWord could end up becoming disruptive technologies 
relative to OOo.  OOo is leading the field in open source office 
suites now, but if our quest for performance leaves behind our 
emphasis on providing solid office suite functionality cheaply and 
easily, we might find that the momentum behind OOo dwindles, and 
adoption and resources start migrating toward Koffice or AbiWord.

We are not irreplaceable.  

Christian Einfeldt
415-351-1300

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Re: [discuss] Open-Source Future For Java Enterprise System?

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Wednesday 30 March 2005 06:22, Ian Lynch wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-03-30 at 15:16, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> > Nicu Buculei wrote:
> > > this is a description of what JES is:
> > > http://www.sun.com/software/javaenterprisesystem/compare.xml
> > >
> > > it does not look at all related to JRE.
> > >
> > > use Java Desktop System as an example, it is already Open
> > > Source, but is related to Java only for branding reasons.
> >
> > Sun seems to use the word "Java" on every other product.
>
> Probably because the Java name is more well-known that Sun ;-)

Actually, I think that this is where Sun might be a bit 
misunderstood.  Let's see if you guys agree with me.  

Sun has produced a number of different products which you might call 
"environmental" products, that is, products which are intended to 
seed the environment to change the market to give Sun's 
shareholders the benefit of greater uptake of Sun's products in a 
more Sun-friendly market, as opposed to the current Microsoft 
friendly market. 

So OOo is the alternative to MSO, and Java is the alternative 
to .Net.  If I am correct in this analysis, I do admire Sun for its 
gumption.  It is making a long-term investment in alternatives to 
the current monoculture, and that actually takes lots of guts in 
the face of Wall Street's myopic quarter to quarter short term 
vision.  

Some people have said, hey, why is Scott McNealy criticizing Linux 
when Sun has its own Linux solutions like JDS.  I am guessing that 
Sun's execs are hunkered down for the long term view, and they have 
to be careful about sending out messages which emphasize the long 
term over the short term picture.  I am guessing that the Sun execs 
are concerned that the conventionaly wisdom on the Street is that 
long term vision is good only so long as it can produce in the near 
term.  

The Street can be quite vicious in its treatment of stocks in the 
near term, which can actually derail the long term vision.  Again, 
markets measure belief about future performance, and the damn thing 
about the Street is that its short-term vision can become a 
self-fulfilling prophecy.  So again, at the risk of losing my 
credibility by appearing to favorable to Sun on a Sun-sponsored 
list, IMHO people need to look at what Sun's long term plans are. 

Again, that is just my guess based on what I read in public, and 
it's not based on anything that anyone working for Sun has told me.  
I could be totally off.  

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Re: [discuss] Re: Java fallout: OO.o 2.0 and the FOSS community

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Wednesday 30 March 2005 15:33, Chad Smith wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >The concerns are not overstated, quite the contrary. Today the
> > silliest python app will have less difficulty being included in
> > a Linux distribution than any given major java app.
>
> Does anyone have numbers on this?  Is OOo the most often included
> office suite on Linux or is it not?  If it is, I doubt we should
> even care what the free software fanatics say about our use of
> Java...
>
> This whole conversation is beyond me.  Java is free, as in beer,
> it can be used by anyone on any computer on any platform in the
> world  Why anyone would exclude it for some stupid political
> reason is beyond my understanding.  Free as in beer/free as in
> freedom  Who cares?  Does it work?  Yes, oh yeah, it works. 
> Is it free?  Well it doesn't cost anything.  Can I put it on
> Linux, Windows, Mac, Solaris?  Yep-yep.  Is there any spyware or
> adware or viruses?  Nope.   Okay...  I'm sold.
>
> I don't need a lecture on the difference between software that is
> free and free software.  I know the difference between
> OpenOffice.org and 602 PC Suite.  I know the difference between
> open source and
> trialware/shareware/adware/crippleware/nagware/and even freeware.
>  But if Java works, (and it does), and it works well, (and it
> does), and it is as crossplatform as OOo (and it certainly seems
> that way to me), and there's no way to do this in a more-free
> format without a complete rewrite of stuff that the "open source
> community"has heretofore been, shall we say, unwilling to rewrite
> for us - I say, screw 'em.
>
> OOo is done 95% or more by *SUN EMPLOYEES*.  If SUN wants to use
> Sun's Java - then they can, and should.  If these little Free
> Software Freaks want it Java-free (pun intended) then "SHOW ME
> THE CODE".  If they want to bitch and moan - let them.  They can
> always try to get there work done on AbiWord.

There is not always a clear line between "open source" folks and 
"free software" folks, at least among the folks that I met in 
Spain, Scotland, Germany, and Brazil.  Not all of the "open source" 
folks agree with Eric Raymond, Linus Torvalds, Bruce Perens, or 
Larry Augustin, and not all of the "free software" folks agree with 
Richard Stallman or the FSF.  Members of the FSF often grip about 
Richard, and Richard is quite particular and will quickly disagree 
with anyone, and yet when the dust of history settles, the names 
that will always be repeated in discussions of FLOSS will be folks 
from both sides of the fence.

Damn, there I go being diplomatic again.  Force of habit. 

>
> Sumbit IZ reports, discuss changes, but, when it comes down to
> it, if you want it done, do it.  Either do it, or find someone to
> do it for you.  I'm not concerned in the least about us losing
> some FSF programmers - because we don't have any!  When was the
> last time someone of this political ilk submitted code to
> OpenOffice.org?  Last week? last month?  last year?  EVER?!?
>
> Why should we give a d*** about placating people who will never
> like us and never help us anyway?  It's a waste of time, effort,
> and political capital.  Let's just keep doing what we're doing
> and let the code fall where it may.
>
> *This message brought to you by the International Alliance of
> Coffee Bean Growers - JAVA RULZ!*
>
> -Chad Smith

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Re: [discuss] OT -- In memoriam.

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Thursday 31 March 2005 05:44, G. Roderick Singleton wrote:
> Robert Black Eagle, one of our volunteers, succumbed to cancer
> around 11:15 PM, Tuesday, July 6, 2004. He is missed.

Gerry, thank you for this news.  I am saddened by it.  He gave me a 
lot of good guidance.  Thank you for your help, Robert, wherever 
you are.  

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[discuss] databases with OOo

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi,

Sorry to ask a stupid question and not search the email list myself, 
but can someone please tell me again what OOo's solution is for 
current Access users?  These are relatively simple end users and 
new to FLOSS, and they have said that an easy solution will be 
important to them.  They are an international employment union. 

I know that OOo 2.0 will have a database attached, but that is not 
coming out for another 6 weeks, IIRC.  

Thanks!

Christian Einfeldt

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Re: [discuss] Open Office Site and App Issues

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Saturday 02 April 2005 11:04, Richard L Jones wrote:
> I understand that OO 1.9.x is beta. But the Powerpoint Import and
> Export has the same issues as the last release (1.0.x). It just
> cannot interoperate with MS Office. It manages to miss photos,
> rerun line endings and export photos with too much compression.
> And when I tried to use the very very very well explained system
> of how to submit an issue on the site, I got all sorts of
> internal server errors (500).
>
> I keep trying Open Source, I guess I will wait to 3.0.

You should try to use Xandros Linux or Linspire, because I have 
heard that they run Microsoft Office better.  There is also 
something called "Crossover Office."  You could google that name.

Also, OOo 1.1.3 or 1.1.4 are both very good at making a similar type 
of presentation called Impress, so you can just give up Microsoft 
Powerpoint altogether, if you like.  

>
> I wish you luck.
>
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Re: [discuss] Novell and OOo for slick new Novell desktop

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Friday 01 April 2005 04:44, Sam Hiser wrote:

snip...

> Linspire and Xandros are nice but tend to fail due diligence when
> organizations review the products and the COMPANIES BEHIND the
> products--which is a big factor--not to mention the services
> surrounding the product.  That's why enterprise Linux options
> only boil down to 2 or 3: Red Hat, Novell & Java Desktop
> System...the decision being driven by the COMPLETE offering,
> including the quality and culture of the vendor COMPANY.

+1

I don't know about Xandros, but even Linspire acknowledges that it 
is not primarily aimed at the enterprise, but rather at the 
individual consumer. 

I don't really know enterprise needs, but you're right, Sam.  I 
wouldn't really even consider Linspire for the enterprise, just 
based on my general impressions from media talk. 

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Re: [discuss] Novell and OOo for slick new Novell desktop

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Saturday 26 March 2005 17:44, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> > Linspire is the slickest GNU/Linux desktop that I have seen so
> > far, but now here comes Novell with some slick new stuff that
> > it claims will be slicker than Microsoft.
>
> Since when is Microsoft "slick" ?

In speaking of Microsoft being "slick", what I meant was that it is 
the center of a business hub, and so there are lots of third party 
apps that will interoperate with it.  Now of course, most of that 
networking effect is due to illegal anti-trust activities.  But you 
gotta give the devil his due, Microsoft is developing lots of stuff 
its best customers, the upper tier customers who are not quite 
ready to pay for Apple products, but are interested in video and 
audio.  

Of course, Linspire and Novell are both RIGHT on Microsoft's heels 
now...

>
> Cheers,

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Re: [discuss] Can charts be superimposed in OO Calc??

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Saturday 26 March 2005 13:13, Sweet Coffee wrote:
> Hello All!
>
> Is it possible to superimpose charts in OO Calc?

Yes, and I have done it before, but I don't remember how.  I think 
that you need to make the stuff that you want superimposed a 
transparency or something like that.

This is probably something that you will either need to read the 
guidebook on line at 

http://support.openoffice.org
 
Or look at OOoauthors.org to see if they have something, or you will 
need to invest in one of the OOo users manuals.  I would suggest 
Solveig Haugland's book, because your question really is rather 
nitty gritty, and Solveig's book covers the details.  You can go 
here for that:

http://www.getopenoffice.org

>
> If so, where can I get some instructions as to how to do this?
>
> The documentation for OO Calc at OOAuthors was not very helpful
> with this.
>
> For example let's say I am writing a paper about determining if
> someone is legally drunk while driving a car.  Alcohol levels
> would be on the "Y" axis and Absorbance levels would be on the
> "X" axis.   I have the following data to plot [This time in line
> graph format]:
>
>   1. Amount of Alcohol vs Absorbance values
>   2. Cut off where "legally drunk" is determined.
>   3. Individual A with certain Absorbance values - drunk
> legally 4. Individual B with certain Absorbance values - no
> alcohol 5. Individual C with certain Absorbance values - alcohol
> present but not legally drunk
>
> I would like to superimpose all the results with different colors
> for each chart [1-5]. That way I can demonstrate that by using
> the chart one can determine if an individual was legally drunk or
> not.
>
> Thanks in advance for any and all responses.
>
> SC
>
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Re: [discuss] Re: data base in OOo2?

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Friday 08 April 2005 02:54, Wesley Parish wrote:
snip...

> Judging from comments I have heard from various PC techies, MS
> Access's problem is that it is only good for small databases, and
> falls over once you try anything above a certain size.
>
> Since OO.org connects to _serious_ databases of all shapes and
> sizes, I don't see that as being a problem with OO.org.

This is good to know.  I am trying to help move a union over to OOo.  
They are balking about Access.  So how easy is it to move to say 
PostgreSQL on Windows and Linux with OOo?  Does it take a serious 
genius to hook OOo up with PostgreSQL?

christian einfeldt

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[discuss] Hausa localized?

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi, 

Does anyone know if Hausa, an African language, has a localization 
project in the works?  I know a teenager who is interested in 
exploring the idea.  No guarantees, of course, and I have explained 
how tough a localization project can be, but this kid loves 
languages.  I didn't see Hausa on our native lang project list.

http://projects.openoffice.org/native-lang.html

If not, that is too bad, because apparently Hausa is quite widely 
distributed across Western Africa:

http://www.college.indiana.edu/foreignlanguage/hausa/hausaSpoken.shtml

That link above might be a good seed program for OOo Hausa.

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Re: [discuss] Incorporating interactivity to help using Flash or VB for applications

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Monday 11 April 2005 10:29, Rigel wrote:
> For those computers, that support it, I think it would be helpful
> to setup some walkthrough tutorials using Flash technology, or
> VBA (Visual Basic For applications).

Linspire has done a number of this flash presos.  Cruise their site 
to see it:

http://www.linspire.com

If you go to the most recent Michael's Minute, you will see a flash 
preso which includes about 10 secs of clips of OOo.  

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[discuss] Penguin day

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi

this is a good opportunity to market OOo to non-profits which are 
showing up to look at FLOSS solutions.  I am going to be going to 
this even tomorrow in Oakland, CA, USA. 

http://bayarea.penguinday.org/


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Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org Support on the Users List

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 12 April 2005 11:04, Ian Lynch wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-04-12 at 09:28 -0400, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> > Steve Kopischke wrote:
> > > I believe this happens because the network of individuals has
> > > little in the way of recognition
> >
> > Can you think of any idea to improve the ammount of recognition
> > volunteers get?
>
> They can become INGOT assessors. They even get a certificate :-)
> Any active community member who can operate OpenOffice.org
> competently and who has spent 100 hours on community development
> work qualifies for the Gold INGOT with distinction. 

I like this idea.  IMHO, it fosters recognition, and the INGOTs 
program encourages people to give back to the community early on in 
the process.  People should not come to the list just expecting to 
have people solve their problems for them automagically.  

In some cases, tech support DOES mean just a little help in one 
area, and then people can leave again.  But if people have a more 
intense problem, they really are going to need to engage with the 
community to learn.  

> So if you 
> work on the users list and can provide the right evidence I can
> arrange your certification.
>
> You could then put this in your sig.


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Re: [discuss] Penguin day

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Monday 11 April 2005 20:17, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> Hi
>
> this is a good opportunity to market OOo to non-profits which are
> showing up to look at FLOSS solutions.  I am going to be going to
> this even tomorrow in Oakland, CA, USA.
>
> http://bayarea.penguinday.org/

So I did go to this event, and I'm very glad that I did.  I'll be 
writing an article for MadPenguin.org about the experience.

For the purposes of this list, I wanted to thank John Lorance of 
Compumentor for doing a great "speed geek" demo of OOo for the 50 
or so people who were present at the event.  Speed geeking is the 
practice of dividing a larger group up into a series of small 
groups, who then rotate from booth to booth for a brief and intense 
intro into the software.  John Lorance handled the OOo table.  He 
did a great job of showcasing OOo 2.0.  I would strongly recommend 
that our marketing leads consider partnering with Aspiration for 
the purpose of promoting these events.  

www.aspirationtech.org

OOo is really best when presented in a mix of other FOSS apps to 
non-profits.  This event was a great step toward getting OOo in 
front of a natural group of users. 

Open source and non profits are a natural mix, and so Dan Gun (aka 
Gunner) and Kartin Verclas have done a brilliant job of bringing 
non-profits together with FOSS advocates.  Some of the software 
shown there was simply brilliant as well. 

This event was also a personal landmark for me because I got to meet 
Oso Martin (accent over the i not possible in kmail), who is the 
founder of Freegeek.org.  I love free geek because it combines the 
education of software libre with recycling old computers and 
repurposing old computers.  Free Geek basically installs debian and 
OOo on computers and gives them away.  How good is that?  

Christian Einfeldt
415-351-1300

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Re: [discuss] Re: data base in OOo2?

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Monday 11 April 2005 20:16, Matt Needles wrote:
> Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> > Away from the control panel I don't see any substancial
> > difference with the 1.1.4 version. Can someone shed some
> > explanation of some 'real' changes (on the UI) on OOoBase from
> > 1.x to 2.x?
> >
> > --
> > Alexandro Colorado
> > Co-Leader of OpenOffice.org Spanish
> > http://es.openoffice.org/
>
> Well, Alejando, if you've not tried the 2.0 beta version of OOo
> Base, you're in for a real treat!  It's UI is quite similar to MS
> Access, with a pane on the left showing the objects in a
> database,  i.e., Tables, Queries, Forms, Reports.   The main pane
> is split into Tasks and a tree of whatever you selected from
> Database (Objects) and a preview of whatever you select in the
> tree.

John Lorance of Compumentor showed this feature yesterday at Penguin 
Day in Oakland, CA.  It was awesome.

http://www.penguinday.org

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[discuss] podcast library

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi,

Would it be possible to start a podcast library?  For example, I 
plan to download these talks and listen to them on the bus, because 
I otherwise won't have time to listen to them, and I missed them at 
DLS because I was filming.  

http://website.openoffice.org/tryouts/dcarrera/RegiCon/

I am imagining a library of annotated MP3s and Oggs with a communty 
rating system, sort of like the rating system on Amazon or 
DIYparts.org:

http://www.diyparts.org

Adam Doxtater created that DIYparts site.  Did you know that Adam 
spelled backwards is "hero"?   Heh.  

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re: [discuss] concern

[Christian Einfeldt]

Sorry to have started a new thread on this question.  Earthlink is 
doing something weird today.  I actually had to go to the mail list 
server to read the mail today.  

Maybe this guy is talking about metadata? 

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Re: [discuss] crash

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Sunday 17 April 2005 08:55, adrian Greeman wrote:

Sorry you lost this work...

>
> 1000 words vanished and three hours work.
>
> Do I keep using it? NO way can I take the chance. And I am very
> disappointed because I want to.

There must be a copy stored somewhere on your system.  What 
operating system are you using?  You should find out where your 
back ups are stored.  

You can also set up OpenOffice.org (OOo) to automatically save work 
for you.  I have my program set to save every three minutes, I 
think.  

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Re: [discuss] Idea and Suggestion

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Sunday 17 April 2005 06:13, Olly Othalian wrote:
> Hi there
>
> I was typing out a assignment for my university course and
> repeatedly having to refer to notes on spelling new words which I
> had already type out in other paragraphs above.

Hi,

This already exists, and it is one of my favorite functions in OOo.  
Just click tools > AutoCorrect/AutoFormat and then click on the tab 
that says, "Word Completion" and then left mouse click in the box 
that says enable word completion.  You are all set!

>
> I then had a brain wave, why can't OpenOffice "look" at what has
> aready been typed within the  currentdocument and offer those
> words up as suggestions along with those in the pre-emptive
> dictionary.
>
> OpenOffice would not have to offer up all the "regular" words
> like: it, this, and, they, small, etc; it would "look" for
> unusual and less common words. All these words could, at the end
> of the document, be added to the pre-emptive dictionary.
>
> If this is adopted then it would be something that Microsoft Word
> currently does not possess and save everyone wasting valuable
> time checking spellings.
>
> Regards
>
> Othalian
>
>
>
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Re: [discuss] OpenOffice extension??

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Sunday 17 April 2005 15:01, Ronald wrote:
> Dear OpenOffice,
>
> I like OpenOffice very much, it is very handy and I use it on a
> daily basis. There is one thing which might make it more
> powerful. I like to refer to WordPerfect. This programm had a
> function to see the codes of the formatted text, like [fat],
> [italic], [hard return] and so on,

This feature is called "reveal codes", and OOo has a macro that 
simulates it:

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/hillview/OOo/

Here is a collection of free tech support on line:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,76/Itemid,4/

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Re: [discuss] Professional Office...

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Friday 15 April 2005 17:10, Volker Jung wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Why does noone give OpenOffice a professional look and feel? 

Do you think that Microsoft Office has a professional look and feel?  

I know lots of people who can't tell the difference between MSO and 
OOo.  

With all due respect, I don't see what is unprofessional about OOo's 
design.  

OOo is an open source project, and so I would suggest that if you 
like a design, you campaign for it.  The developers do take public 
opinion into account.  

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Re: [discuss] -sharing OOo among lawyers-

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Friday 15 April 2005 14:36, Gerardo Antonio Cavaliere wrote:
> Dear all,
> I am the coordinator of an italian project, which goal is to
> spread OOo among lawyers of the Lawyers Association of Foggia.

Benissimo!

(I hope I wrote that correctly.  Sorry if I didn't).

I am an attorney in San Francisco, California (SF, CA for short).  I 
have been trying very hard to get lawyers to use OOo, and have not 
been very lucky.  There are lots and lots of programs in CA law 
which depend on Microsoft Office (MSO).  

I have given two seminars on using OOo and Linux in a law 
environment.  No luck.  I have talked to lawyers at conventions.  
No luck.  I have offered to give free computers to my lawyer 
friends with Linux and OOo.  No luck.

So now, I just tell lawyers that they can give me their old 
computers, and I put Linux and OOo on it, and then I give those 
computers to people who can't afford computers.  

So I would suggest that giving out software libre is a good thing, 
but if you want to do even more to help spread software libre, you 
should consider giving away computers with software libre on it. 

One very easy way to do that would be to go this website:

http://www.DIYparts.org

and register your extra computers and computer parts.  That way, you 
don't have to be bothered with always describing your computers and 
computer parts over and over again.  You can just list your 
hardware there, so that people in your local area can find it.  
Then they will be able to see if it will be useful for them, and if 
so, they can contact you for a time to pick it up.  Simple.  Zip 
zap. 

Grazi benissimo!

Christian Einfeldt
415-351-1300

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Re: [discuss] autocorrect problem

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Wednesday 20 April 2005 06:41, Kevin/Joanna wrote:
> oo text program autocorrect entries which I've put in myself
> works only erratically - ie in some docs and not in others.

Wow, I've never heard of that problem before, as long as you are 
talking about the same version of OOo.

It is true that you can have two versions of OOo running at the same 
time.  Have you checked that?  Maybe that is your problem.  You 
have two different versions of OOo running at the same time. 

Here is a list of tip sheets for OOo support solutions, as well as 
other open source support solutions:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,76/Itemid,4/

I would search the OOo users mailing list archive if I were you.  
That's your best shot.  

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Re: [discuss] Re: Solutions to problems

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Thursday 21 April 2005 13:50, Rod Engelsman wrote:
> Wesley Parish wrote:
> > I had an interesting experience the other day, the the
> > community centre cycafe I work as a volunteer for.  An elderly
> > gent turned up, with some photos he wanted switched from
> > horizontal to vertical for online selling of the things they
> > represented.
> >
> > I found the local installation of OpenOffice.org and fired up
> > Draw.  I worked out how to spin the photo around, so it was
> > vertical, and he wanted to take the program home with him! 
> > (Unfortunately, the installation package had gone awol, and I
> > wasn't able to burn him a copy then and there - pity.)
> >
> > It's heartening!
> >
> > Wesley Parish
>
> I'm glad the guy wants to use OOo, but FWIW you can do that in
> about one click with the Picture and Fax Viewer that comes with
> WinXP.

Is that function an extra or included with XP?  Where is it located 
in the Start menu? 


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Re: [discuss] Solutions to problems

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Thursday 21 April 2005 00:05, Wesley Parish wrote:
> I had an interesting experience the other day, the the community
> centre cycafe I work as a volunteer for.  An elderly gent turned
> up, with some photos he wanted switched from horizontal to
> vertical for online selling of the things they represented.

nice story! 

I wouldn't have know that.  I have to play more with Draw.  

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Re: [discuss] Navigation in Draw and guide

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 19 April 2005 22:29, Bimal Kharel wrote:
> Using Draw (OpenOffice 2.0) I felt the need for a few things:
> 1) When grouped objects are moved one doesn't see an
> outline/guide WHILE moving. 

It seems from CPH's post that you have spotted a valid bug.  
Congratulations!  

If you would like a list of free tech support and resources, there 
is a list here:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,76/Itemid,4/

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Re: [discuss] Re: Has sun sacked half its developers?

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Thursday 21 April 2005 10:16, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> Hello Joerg,
>
> Thank you for your input. It's important to hear the developers'
> side of the story.

+1

Having devs on a "regular" list raises the level of discourse, in 
that the devs will bring a depth of knowledge in the details of the 
code development, debunk myths, etc.  

Having devs present also personalizes them.  IMHO, lots of the 
discussion about the devs on this list almost speak about them as 
if they were ghosts, rumored to exist, but with qualities unknown 
to ordinary folks.  

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Re: [discuss] Incompatibility between OpenOffice 2.0 Writer and Microsoft Word

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi Bill,

I have read your post with great interest.  More comments in line...

On Monday 18 April 2005 17:57, Bill Wilken wrote:

> I do believe, however, that the sponsors of OpenOffice would do
> well to remember how Microsoft succeeded in displacing
> WordPerfect as the market leader in word processing.  Among other
> things, they made certain that users could import complex
> WordPerfect documents into Word with very little disruption in
> formatting.

The competition of OpenOffice.org (OOo) versus Microsoft Office 
(MSO) is quite different from the competition between Word and 
WordPerfect (WP).  IMHO, Word succeeded in burying WP by being 
integrated into Microsoft's distribution channels.  That 
competition was what Clayton Christesen would have called a 
"competitive battle", meaning that it was a titanic struggle over 
the distribution channels.  (As opposed to a disruptive battle 
between OOo and MSO).  Both WP and Word were offered by market 
leaders in their respective industries.

When WP was dominant, MS's revenue stream was tied to MS-DOS.  MS 
had not yet entered the applications market in a big way.  MS 
leveraged it control of the desktop to pressure OEMs to package 
sell Word, and later MSO, with the operating system (OS).  

In any event, the struggle at that time was primarily a developed 
world struggle over control of what Clayton Christensen calls the 
upper market tier, comprised of customers who are willing to pay a 
premium for the latest and greatest features.  WP and Word were 
what Christensen calls "integrated architectures" in that the state 
of the art was still not really "good enough" for modular solutions 
to bloom.

OOo, by contrast, is a modular architecture being offered by a 
market entrant (Sun is not a market leader in end user software, 
Sun has in the past focused more on the plumbing).  Sun's strategy 
is not to make a frontal assault on the opponent's position, as was 
the case with the "competitive battle" between Word and WP.  Sun is 
part of a community which is seeking to disrupt the market leader 
from below in market tiers where Microsoft's business model does 
not work.  Microsoft makes money by selling end user desktop 
software.  Microsoft does not make any money by selling into the 
kinds of lower end market tiers where OOo is booming.  

I am producing a movie called "The Digital Tipping Point" about this 
topic, and so we visited the favelas (slums) of Sao Paulo, Brazil, 
where we saw heavy usage of OOo and absolutely zero usage of MSO.  
In a pattern that we saw repeated over and over and over again in 
the places where we filmed, we saw that OOo is making huge inroads 
into places where people access computers and the Internet not at 
their homes, but rather, at community centers or other shared 
computing places, like a place in someone's business that is open 
to the public or public libraries.  

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com

In an interview that will be published soon on MadPenguin.org 
magazine, Sun policy wonk Simon Phipps said that Sun monetizes Java 
(and by implication, OOo) by creating a commons where multiple 
companies can compete.  Other companies, he said, compete by 
creating corrals where they can close off fertile ground for their 
own exclusive control.  

http://www.madpenguin.org

In other words, you are correct in saying that it is important for 
OOo to improve compatibility with the Microsoft Office standards.  
However, that is only half the story.  The other half of the story 
is that Sun is beating Microsoft to deployment in the part of the 
world which will be experiencing the greatest market growth over 
the next 10 years:  the developing world.  Only 1 billion of the 
world's six billion people live in countries with annual incomes in 
excess of $10,000.00 USD per average.  Competing for sales in that 
top of the pyramid is important.  

But Sun is following hockey great Wayne Gretzky's advice to "skate 
to where the puck will be," (the developing world) rather than 
skating to where the puck currently is (the developed world).  

The competition between OOo and MSO is, in some ways, a competition 
between apples and oranges.  MSO cannot succeed in the favelas of 
Sao Paulo.  It simply can't.  No one there can afford it.  At the 
same time, OOo is still way behind MSO in terms of integration into 
the vast business network of users and vendors who depend on being 
able to move data from MSO into other third party applications such 
as lawyer desktop software, etc.  I'm a lawyer, and I simply cannot 
find a single vendor who will integrate OOo with calendaring 
software.  So I just do without, and accept that shortcoming as 
part of the trade-off that I get for no viruses, no license 
hassles, etc.  

But if OOo follows in the footsteps of other disruptive technologies 
such as the telephone, which destroyed former market leader Western 
Union, then OOo will steadily increase in performance and adoption, 
and the 

Re: [discuss] Newbie Question about Open Office 2.0 Calc

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Thursday 21 April 2005 17:35, Paige Miller wrote:
> I am running Windows Me, I have my screen resolution set and
> 1024X768
>
> When I open Open Office 2.0 Beta Calc, everything looks fine
> EXCEPT the font in the tabs at the bottom of the spreadsheets.
> That particular font is appears to be almost unreadable -- way
> too small for my taste, and in fact noticeably smaller than the
> other text on the screen (e.g. smaller than the row numbers in
> the spreadsheet).

Wow, is that a newbie question?  I think that 2.0 is not going to be 
stable for a while, so maybe wait for a bit, say until June or 
July, unless you like to play with betas.  I personally am a simple 
end user, and so I haven't downloaded 2.0 yet.  Call me a chicken, 
but it's true.  Generally speaking, there is a list of different 
help resources for OOo and other open source programs and tutorials 
here:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,76/Itemid,4/

Not to slam your operating system, but I have heard that there are 
lots of problems with Windows ME.  I am wondering if it might be 
related to that.  Again, I'm a simple end user, so I'm just 
guessing here. 


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Re: [discuss] OT: "Windows Update" spyware

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Thursday 21 April 2005 21:14, Peter Kupfer OOo wrote:
> Justin Clift wrote:
snip...

> > These kinds of software tactics are *so* sleazy. :(
> >
> > Regards and best wishes,
> >
> > Justin Clift
>
> Yes, I agree. It took a near miracle to finally figure out how to
> get MSN Messenger off my computer.
>
> Try this: In Add/Remove, click on the button about Window's
> Components on the right. See if it is in there.

This was such a good piece of advice that I added it to the Digital 
Tipping Point website's list of free tech support.  Thanks! 

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,76/Itemid,4/

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Re: [discuss] Palm OS

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Sunday 24 April 2005 04:10, Luis Sales wrote:
> Helo,
>
> I would like to know if there is any idea of making a version for
> PDA, in my case for Palm OS, or if there some way of viewing and
> editing OpenOffice files in Palm OS.

Probably not.  There has been much talk about making a program 
called "OOo light", because OOo is a rather large program, although 
much smaller than Microsoft Office.  Your best solution is probably 
to consider buying Softmaker Office, and installing it on your 
desktop and your palmtop.  You can then cut and paste from OOo to 
Softmaker, and then transfer your files from your desktop or 
notebook to your palmtop.

Softmaker is remarkably lightweight and yet robust.  It really is a 
minor miracle in engineering.  Unfortunately, for right now, it is 
also proprietary.  However, among proprietary programs, it is one 
of the few to challenge Microsoft Office and survive, which in 
itself is another minor miracle.  You can find it here.  I do not 
work for Softmaker, nor do I have any financial interest in them.

http://www.softmaker.com

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Re: [discuss] R: [discuss] -sharing OOo among lawyers-

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Wednesday 20 April 2005 07:49, Lars D. Noodén wrote:

>
> Another topic is attorney-client privilege.  Though that is under
> attack in the US, it is still part of practice.  MSO XP on
> MS-Windows XP SP2 or MSO 2003 (which has DRM baked in) has the
> capability that every time a document is opened, created, edited,
> printed, copied, saved, or mailed that action can be tracked. 

Good point Lars.  That is serious like a heart attack for many 
attorneys, especially criminal defense attorneys or corporate 
attorneys.  

> Depending on the settings, the tracking either occurs at the
> MS-Pasport site, or on another designated MS-Server. Note that
> 2003, XP SP1, and 2000 SP3 grant third party access to the
> contents of the server (check the technical description or just
> read the license that came with)  I'm sure it's not a good thing
> to allow third parties to keep up on internal communications
>

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[discuss] new website: wow!

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hey, whoever redesigned the OOo website, GREAT JOB!  I haven't had a 
chance to really dig into it yet, but wow, the immediate impression 
is that this is a much much more slick site than we had before!  
This is not at all a rational anaylsis, but rather a gut reaction:  
the site just is easier and more welcoming to look at.

I don't totally "get" the shot of the three eggs or whatever they 
are in the upper right hand corner, but my initial reaction was 
that it was a slick artistic expression of some type that I had to 
look at and wonder at.  I'm guessing that it is three OOo for our 
acronym, and the idea of the eggs in a digital nest is that those 
eggs are gonna hatch, and something incredible (2.0) is going to 
come out.   I think that it is okay for art to not be immediately 
clearly understood, especially if it is emotionally evocative, 
which these eggs truly are.  

I haven't clicked the "new user" block yet, but that is pretty cool 
to have it so prominently located.

Also, I do like that one of our crown jewels, the native language 
project, also has a blue box in the most prominent place, with a 
cool graphic of the world. 

So those are my initial emotional impressions.  I like it!  and I 
wouldn't say that if I didn't mean it.  So thanks, whoever created 
this site! 

Christian Einfeldt
415-351-1300

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Re: [discuss] Re: Klingon for OpenOffice.org is now abandoned

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Wednesday 27 April 2005 18:00, Rigel wrote:
> --- Randomthots <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > The site for the localization of Klingon into OpenOffice.org
> > > has crashed due to a power outage.  Since there has been very
> > > little interest in localizing Klingon to OpenOffice.org,
> > > Gerry Singleton, Ben Horst, and I (Christian Einfeldt) are
> > > now abandoning the project.
> > >
> > > If someone later wants to resurrect this project, so
> > > Klingonists can have their own office suite in their own
> > > language, that option will still be available through
> > > OpenOffice.org:
> > >
> > > http://www.openoffice.org
> > >
> > > live long and prosper.
> >
> > Good Grief, Christian, it's "qa pla!" (forgive the spelling).
> > "Live and long and prosper" is a Vulcan thing, totally out of
> > character for a good old-fashioned, bloodthirsty, Klingon.

That depends on what century you are in.  In later centuries, the 
Klingons were part of the federation.

But I guess also I must confess that I don't mind tweaking the 
Klingonists just a bit for their apathy and laziness in not wanting 
to localize OOo for Klingon.  There doesn't seem to be much honor 
in that kind of laziness. 

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[discuss] Simon Phipps interview about OOo on LinuxToday

[Christian Einfeldt]

It's on the front page:

http://www.linuxtoday.com

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Re: [discuss] Java in OO.o: Proprietary trap or creative commons?

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Thursday 28 April 2005 07:28, M. Fioretti wrote:
> Interview by C. Einfeldt to Sun Microsystems evangelist Simon
> Phipps:

Thanks for noticing this article, Marco!  I included a link to the 
article about Java in OOo by Bruce Byfield, because I thought that 
his analysis was superb, even though I disagreed with his 
conclusion.  There is also a link in the article back to Marco 
Fioretti's 2005/3/28 thread about Bruce's article on Java in OOo.

I think that tensions around the proprietary nature of Java are 
unfortunate, for several reasons.  One is that I'm sure that Mono 
or GCJ will soon be a drop in replacement for Java for those who 
want it.  

Second, it seems that Java gives OOo a wider install base, provided 
that OOo can work without Java for most purposes, so that OOo will 
also be available for Sun skeptics.  

Third, Simon believes that Java just makes OOo development and 
deployment perform better, and I'm inclined to believe him.  

Fourth, I am not that bothered by Sun's desire to leverage OOo, if 
that is the case, by using OOo to be the leading edge of the wedge 
to crack the Microsoft Office monopoly.  If Sun senior management 
can't be convinced that supporting OOo pencil out, why would they 
continue to support OOo?  

Fifth, I really don't believe that there is any lock-in with Java in 
OOo.  Open source routes around lock-in, and I can't imagine that 
Sun wants to be another monopoly.  I also think that Sun genuinely 
wants to support coopetition in an open plains, as opposed to a 
corral, as Simon said in the interview.  GCJ and Mono probably will 
eventually provide Sun with competition for the Java functionality 
in OOo, and that competition will increase the performance and 
flexibility of OOo.  

Sixth, I think that we need the diversity that Sun brings to the 
table to compete with IBM, HP, and Novell, and of course Microsoft.

Seventh, I don't see anything wrong with OOo expressing some 
gratitude for Sun's financing of OOo.  We are independent of Sun, 
but our development would not be where it is today without Sun, let 
alone the fact that OOo would not exist if Sun hadn't open sourced 
it.  Open source projects should learn to work with corporations to 
incent them into deploying and financing FLOSS projects, IMHO.  

I also think that dissent is a good thing, and because we are 
independent, we can have members of our community who don't like 
Java and can be openly critical of Sun.  I think that a healthy bit 
of skepticism is good for a vital community.  I think that the fact 
that Simon Phipps took a risk and agreed to an interview is a sign 
that Sun can cope and in fact prosper in an environment of candid, 
open scrutiny.  Anyone who thinks that OOo is just a tool of Sun 
hasn't spent much time on this list.  So thanks for the interview, 
Simon! 

Christian Einfeldt
415-351-1300

>
> http://madpenguin.org/cms/html/62/4023.html
>
> Ciao,
>   Marco F.

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Re: [discuss] Re: OASIS OpenDoc Ratification

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Friday 29 April 2005 02:20, Gary Edwards wrote:
> Lars D.   wrote:
> > That is really great news.  Gary, can you post a URL for a
> > press release after the voting is complete on Saturday or
> > Sunday?
>
> Hi Lars,
>
> Yes, we will all be celebrating on Saturday.  We are now at 20%
> (68 out of 341 delegates in favor of the OpenDocument).  From
> here we can pretty much coast into Saturday's close of the
> ballot.  There are no negative votes yet.  Not even from
> Microsoft.

Hi Gary,

Thanks for keeping us informed of this very nitty gritty geeky but 
apparently crucial piece of news.  There are many of us in the 
community, including myself foremost of all, who will probably not 
appreciate the significance of this news for quite some time.  I do 
get the sense, though, that a good comparison for this news would 
be akin to Munich's announcement of its decision to go open source, 
even though this decision will probably not hit the world press as 
that decision did. 

>
> OASIS has planned a press release, which i'll forward to the
> community.
>
> One of the things i need to discuss with the community though are
> the various issues i have with OASIS.  Well, these are actually
> issues that the community has with OASIS.
>
> Basically i think they (OASIS) have recently undergone some
> significant changes, and might now be considered hostile to Open
> Source Communities. The new OASIS IPR policy is but one of the
> issues that troubles me. But let's save the garbage till after
> Saturday.  Today we are heading for a major triumph.  A hard won
> victory for the future of Internet based collaborative computing.
>  An Open Source success with Open Standards that will reverberate
> for years to come.
>
> And we are on the cusp of a major change in how the volumes of
> mankind's knowledge can be created, stored, worked, and re
> purposed for centuries to come.  The age of a structured,
> portable, universal file format that is cross platform, inter
> application, and collaborative Internet ready is at hand.
>
> Ready the champagne my friends.  I think we've crossed that
> first, most difficult, hurdle.
> ~ge~
>
> > -Lars
> > Lars Nooden ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> > Software patents harm all Net-based business, write your
> > MEP:
> > http://wwwdb.europarl.eu.int/ep6/owa/p_meps2.repartition?ilg=EN
>
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Re: [discuss] Java in OO.o: Proprietary trap or creative commons?

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Friday 29 April 2005 01:25, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> On Ven 29 avril 2005 1:47, Christian Einfeldt a écrit :
> > On Thursday 28 April 2005 07:28, M. Fioretti wrote:
> >> Interview by C. Einfeldt to Sun Microsystems evangelist Simon
> >> Phipps:
> >
> > Thanks for noticing this article, Marco!  I included a link to
> > the article about Java in OOo by Bruce Byfield, because I
> > thought that his analysis was superb, even though I disagreed
> > with his conclusion.  There is also a link in the article back
> > to Marco Fioretti's 2005/3/28 thread about Bruce's article on
> > Java in OOo.
>
> I doubt this interview will help at all. It basically says "I
> don't see there is a problem, so there is no problem. Aren't it
> wonderful there is no problem?".

Hi Nicolas,

In the intro, I did link to discussions on this list in which you, 
among others, expressed some skepticism of Sun.  The point was to 
involve the community in a discussion, such as we are having here.  

>
> The java community part is especially bad - sure java community
> is big but it's not one that trusts Sun overmuch (getting java
> problems Sun is not interested in fixed is almost impossible -
> everyone and its mother is doing private forks of java libraries
> to work around the fact getting fixes upstream is _hard_ and the
> licensing makes it difficult to share fixes among java users).
> People are grateful but far from enthousiastic. One of the main
> reasons Eclipse took up and Netbeans didn't is _most_ java
> players want _less_ Sun control, not more. It's not the happy
> campers community portrayed in the interview.

This interview was intended as a response to the discussions on this 
list, including the discussion that Marco Fioretti started with 
Bruce Byfield's great article of 2005/3/28.  Bruce's article posed 
some very well articulated points that were, overall, skeptical of 
Java in OOo, and this interview was intended to be a thoughtful 
reply to that.  Simon Phipps was invited to be a keynote speaker at 
OOoCon2004 in Berlin because he is a thoughtful, well-read person, 
and I thought his interview would reflect those characteristics. 

I do think that we should continue to push our community toward 
greater openness and reduce proprietary dependencies, but I think 
that we should be wise about how we do that.  We will always make 
our best decisions when we have dialog with people who think 
thoroughly and clearly about topics, and Bruce and Simon both fit 
in that description, although on this topic they tend to have 
diverging opinions.  IMHO, we should be able to be able to embrace 
people with diverging opinions, and welcome the challenge of 
improving our own thoughts on an issue by testing our ideas against 
the ideas of others. 

>
> Moreover a large part of the current OO.o userbase is not part of
> the java community because of the way Sun chose to manage it.
> Applying java management methods to OO.o (which is what will
> happen if OO.o starts depending on java) will only alienate these
> users - they've already looked at the java model and rejected it.
> Regards,

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Re: [discuss] Re: Klingon for OpenOffice.org is now abandoned

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Thursday 28 April 2005 14:33, Mike White wrote:
> > On Wednesday 27 April 2005 18:00, Rigel wrote:
> >> --- Randomthots <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> >> > > Hi,
> >> > >
> >> > > The site for the localization of Klingon into
> >> > > OpenOffice.org has crashed due to a power outage.  Since
> >> > > there has been very little interest in localizing Klingon
> >> > > to OpenOffice.org, Gerry Singleton, Ben Horst, and I
> >> > > (Christian Einfeldt) are now abandoning the project.
> >> > >
> >> > > If someone later wants to resurrect this project, so
> >> > > Klingonists can have their own office suite in their own
> >> > > language, that option will still be available through
> >> > > OpenOffice.org:
> >> > >
> >> > > http://www.openoffice.org
> >> > >
> >> > > live long and prosper.
> >> >
> >> > Good Grief, Christian, it's "qa pla!" (forgive the
> >> > spelling). "Live and long and prosper" is a Vulcan thing,
> >> > totally out of character for a good old-fashioned,
> >> > bloodthirsty, Klingon.
> >
> > That depends on what century you are in.  In later centuries,
> > the Klingons were part of the federation.
> >
> > But I guess also I must confess that I don't mind tweaking the
> > Klingonists just a bit for their apathy and laziness in not
> > wanting to localize OOo for Klingon.  There doesn't seem to be
> > much honor in that kind of laziness.
>
> Actually, if memory serves me correctly, wasn't Klingon derived
> from Esperanto?

No, I don't think that is at all correct.  Klingon is much much more 
gutteral than Esperanto. 

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Re: [discuss] Re: Klingon for OpenOffice.org is now abandoned

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Thursday 28 April 2005 17:49, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> > That depends on what century you are in.  In later centuries,
> > the Klingons were part of the federation.
>
> What???  Are you sure? In which century was that? Certainly not
> in the TNG series.

Let me check on that.  I do think that it was shown to be the case 
during the last series, the Enterprise series, during one of 
Archer's trips to the distant future. 

>
> > But I guess also I must confess that I don't mind tweaking the
> > Klingonists just a bit for their apathy and laziness in not
> > wanting to localize OOo for Klingon.  There doesn't seem to be
> > much honor in that kind of laziness.
>
> You have to admit that the endeavour was not particularly useful.

It was actually a learning experience, at least for me.  I thought 
that the Klingonists would be excited to be able to have an office 
suite in Klingon, because the Klingonists are always trying to do 
different things to make Klingon more widely used.  

Instead, I found that I was seen as an OOo zealot who just showed up 
on the KLI list one day trumpeting the benefits of OOo, and I think 
that I made a huge mistake in that regard.  I learned that the KLI 
Klingonists are an intensely scholarly group whose primary interest 
is sharing their passion for reading, writing, and speaking 
Klingon.  

On this OOo list, we sometimes talk about troubles we have bringing 
newbies into the group.  Sometimes we are critical of members of 
the OOo group who are too harsh on newbies.  My experience with the 
Klingonists is that you really need to lurk a while and learn quite 
a bit about a group before proposing new initiatives with that 
group.  I think that the KLI Klingonists were just not interested 
in using OOo; but I also think that I appeared to be too brash, and 
so I didn't increase the likelihood of adoption with the KLI with 
my zealotry.  

However, as time goes by, maybe another Klingonist will hear of OOo, 
and perhaps Gerry Singleton and I planted a seed with one or two 
Klingonists who will later take interest in localizing OOo for 
Klingon.  

So actually, yes, I do think that endeavor was useful.  We have 
approached a community of linguists who have developed an 
artificially created language; we've educated them a bit about the 
existence of OOo; and we've learned that it is best to be 
proficient speaker of a group who is respected within that group, 
or to approach such a person in a group, rather than just show up 
on their doorstep offering what is perceived by them as practically 
spam sales, even though no money is sought.  

We have also learned that Paramount has a proprietary interest in 
some materials associated with Klingon; and that it is best to deal 
with an organization such as the KLI that has negotiated with 
Paramount to get permission from Paramount to use its intellectual 
property or do the negotiating yourself.  

We also learned a bit about Klingon itself; that it is the only full 
blown language to emerge out of the Star Trek series; that all the 
other languages were only language stubs; that Klingon is regarded 
by Klingonists as being difficult to learn; that Klingon has been 
translated to major literary works such as some of the works of 
Shakespeare; that there is a "native" Klingon character set, but 
very very few Klingonists communicate using that character set, but 
rather use the basic European alphabet to write Klingon; and that 
it takes a major sustained effort by dedicated linguists to 
enhancing Klingon and keeping it alive.

We also learned that a localization is a massive project; that it 
takes dedication and hours of work by highly skilled and educated 
people; that you need to have someone who can 1) run a web site, 
like Gerry Singleton did; 2) someone who is sufficiently familiar 
with computers to be able to determine what word strings need to be 
translated; 3) that in the case of Klingon, there will be 
disagreements as to words like "window" [in the context of a 
computer window, not a window in a house] 4) that similar 
disagreements will probably exist in most localization projects, so 
you need to have a good social organization so that people in the 
group will be able to process these disagreements and come to 
concensus so as to not cause strife in the group; 5) that you 
probably need to have someone who can sometimes drop other tasks to 
attend to issues such as organizing meetings on line, or even 
better, in person; 6) that it helps to have an actual nation-state 
of geographically centrally located people who have close regular 
daily contact with one another [Klingonists are dispersed across 
the globe].  

I personally felt that this last item (lack of a nation-state) was 
probably the biggest hurdle to localization of Klingon.  
Klingonists, being Klingonists, are intense

Re: [discuss] Re: Klingon for OpenOffice.org is now abandoned

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Friday 29 April 2005 22:43, Kazunari Hirano wrote:
> Hi Christian,
> I will take it. :)
> After OpenOffice.org Aynu localization completed, I will start
> OpenOffice.org Klingon localization.  Do not warry.  One of Aynu
> localization team members is a Klingonist, a member of the
> Klingon Language Institute:
> http://www.kli.org/
> And he has his own Klingon Introduction page:
> http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis/5456/

Hi Hirano, 

this is great!  You should know that Gerry Singleton had gone quite 
far in setting up a website, and he has said that he might be able 
to resurrect some data, if someone can figure out how to do it. 

Also, Regina Reusser has expressed some interest on the Klingon list 
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) in participating in some level as a 
Klingonist, so she might be able to support you a bit.  Perhaps you 
might be interested in putting your KLI Klingonist friend in touch 
with her, in case he is not reading the KLI list.  

BTW, one of the Klingonists disagreed with a statement that I made, 
and so I am going to post it to this thread in the interest of 
continuity:  

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > that Klingon is regarded
> > by Klingonists as being difficult to learn;
>
> My general impression is just the opposite; most people who know
> the language regard it as *much* simpler than natural Terran
> languages.
>
> lay'tel SIvten 


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Re: [discuss] IRC Talk: logs are up.

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Saturday 30 April 2005 19:01, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> Laurent's talk was a great success. I forgot to get a tally of
> how many people came in. It looked like 10-ish. The talk was very
> interesting, Laurent had a lot of great ideas to share. The
> following discussion was productive.

Hi Daniel,

Your summary of the IRC is very helpful.  Those of us who don't have 
time to come or even time to read the IRC log can still benefit 
from your summary.  So I hope that you will continue to summarize 
the IRC chats.  Thanks, Christian.

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[discuss] box needed for FLOSS demo

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi,

I am going to be demoing a FLOSS (free libre open source software) 
box (computer) for a principal of a local SF charter school on 
Monday May 9 in San Francisco.  Does anyone in the Bay Area have a 
decent box to give away?  More than 1 gig chip speed would be nice, 
and it would also be nice if it had 512 MB RAM.  A smallish hard 
drive is okay.  Actually, anything is okay.  

You could either email me, or post it on diyparts.org

http://www.diyparts.org

Thanks either way! 

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Re: [discuss] Usability Improvement Suggestions

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 03 May 2005 06:08, Mr. I. M. Williams wrote:
> A couple of suggestions on features which I believe would improve
> useability of OpenOffice.

Which version of OpenOffice.org (OOo for short) are you talking 
about?  Did you know that a major new release is coming out this 
summer? 

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Re: [discuss] Open Source Software

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Sunday 01 May 2005 17:52, Caleb Marcus wrote:
> I just want to know what open source software people are using. I
> use Firefox, Thunderbird, GIMP, Audacity, Perl, and OpenOffice.

I use Damn Small Linux (DSL) to install on older boxes, such as PIs 
and PIIs.  DSL is fantastic, and I highly recommend.   The browser 
is dillo.
xmms for audio listening.
I forgot the name of the windowing system it uses.

On more modern boxes, I give away Ubuntu or Xandros.  Xandros IMHO 
is slightly more of a memory hog than Ubuntu.

For myself, I use SuSE 9.2 for my legal work, and Linspire 5.0 for 
audio ripping and editing.  The audio editor there is audacity.

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Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org Knowledgebase FAQ

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Wednesday 04 May 2005 03:23, Jonathon Coombes wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 00:55 -0700, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:
> > Jonathan, *
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > I have put together some basic information regarding the
> > > OpenOffice.org knowledgebase. I am intending to post this
> > > once a month at the most, to let people know of its
> > > availability. Please feel free to send comments on any of
> > > the materials or suggestions for improvements.
> >
> > This is terrific news!
> >
> > [big snip][
> >
> > > 8. What if there is no match for my question?
> > > Contribute the question anyway so that it can be added to the
> > > knowledgebase. Then submit your question to the users mailing
> > > list at www.openoffice.org. This functionality is in the
> > > process of being automated to make it simpler for new users.
> >
> > What technology is being used here?  Also, perhaps we can begin
> > to think of sending people to the KB once it is formally up.
>
> The technology for managing mailing to the user list etc will be
> my own invention. :)
>
> The technology in the actual knowledgebase in a synaptic network
> model which functions parallel that of our understanding of the
> brain's functionality. It takes some effort to setup, but once
> going, it seems to work well.

Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for this very brilliant website.  As luck would have it, the 
website did not correctly answer my two questions (How do I make a 
header? or How do I turn off autocorect?) but the interesting thing 
is that it *did* answer some other questions that had been 
bothering me, such as how to turn manually formatted text into a 
style.  So not only was the program useful, but it is also clear 
even to a simple end user like me that this program probably has 
the ability to learn, and will get better as it is used!  So I 
think that this is fantastic! 

Does Microsoft offer a free service like this for Office?  I am 
betting that this is a service that we have that Microsoft does NOT 
have!  If someone could answer this question, I would really 
appreciate it, because I am going to link Jonathan's Marvelous 
Machine to the Digital Tipping Point when Jonathan says that it is 
ready.  

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[discuss] open source in government

[Christian Einfeldt]

Wasn't someone on this list looking for articles on open source in 
government?  I seem to recall that someone is compiling a list.  
Here's another article:

And actually, I would like to add a section on open source software 
on the Digital Tipping Point website, so if someone has a 
compilation, I also would like to see it.  Thanks! 

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8287

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Re: [discuss] Open Source Software

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Wednesday 04 May 2005 23:52, Rich wrote:
> Christian Einfeldt wrote:

> > I use Damn Small Linux (DSL) to install on older boxes, such as
> > PIs and PIIs.  DSL is fantastic, and I highly recommend.   The
> > browser is dillo.
>
> just beware that dillo might be unable to open a lot of pages.

Thanks for the reminder.  It's been okay for me so far, but I'm glad 
that dillo is there as a backup.

> there's firefox available, but it's slightly slower and takes
> more resources.

Yeah, that's why I generally use dillo whenever possible on DSL.

>
> > xmms for audio listening.
> > I forgot the name of the windowing system it uses.
>
> fluxbox

Thanks.

>
> > On more modern boxes, I give away Ubuntu or Xandros.  Xandros
> > IMHO is slightly more of a memory hog than Ubuntu.

I used Ubuntu extensively for the first time yesterday, and it was 
pretty good on a fairly old box.  OOo loaded pretty slow, 
unfortunately.  This box is a wobbler, meaning that it is a little 
too fast to waste DSL, and a little to slow for optimal performance 
with Ubuntu. 

> >
> > For myself, I use SuSE 9.2 for my legal work, and Linspire 5.0
> > for audio ripping and editing.  The audio editor there is
> > audacity.
>
> to be counted - slackware :)

oops, sorry, didn't get this.  How is slackware involved with 
Audacity?  I ask this question out of pure ignorance.  I tried to 
install Minislack once, and it wasn't pretty.  I hear lots of true 
geeks singing the praises of Slackware, so I have lots of respect 
for it, but it is out of my reach as a simple end user. 

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Re: [discuss] Re: IBM pledges 500 patents for FOSS.

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Saturday 15 January 2005 12:30, John W. Kennedy wrote:
> Charles Marcus wrote:
> > Yes, and there is a big difference between sanctions for a
> > frivolous *motion*, and a judge declaring an entire *lawsuit*
> > frivolous. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so - otherwise,
> > the famous McDonalds 'hot coffee' lawsuit would have been
> > thrown out, no?
>
> No. Not when the plaintiff was able to demonstrate that:
> A) the coffee was intentionally served much hotter than is
> customary, B) McDonald's had been aware of the problem for years
> and had been hushing it up with hasty out-of-court settlements,
> and
> C) her injuries had been extensive, requiring surgery.

D) The plaintiff and her attorney agreed to comparative fault on her 
part, and the jury found her partially at fault;
E)  The coffee was scalding hot, so hot that it cooks flesh on 
contact.  In her case, she required a clitorectomy due to the fact 
that her clitoris and her labia were subjected to third degree 
burns; she has trouble walking, sitting, or standing, and is only 
comfortable lying down with her legs spread; her vaginal tissue is 
still too sensitive to endure pressure as light as wearing 
underwear.  
F) The plaintiff's attorney asked for, and the plaintiff was awarded 
the sum of McDonalds' NET profits for ONE day from the sales of 
COFFEE only worldwide, which was reduced by 90% by the trial judge;

> Although the jury's award was ultimately ruled excessive, their
> finding for the plaintiff was not overturned, and the case is
> miles from anything that could be called "frivolous".

+1  In fact, the jury was angry that McDonalds put on such a 
frivolous defense.  When the media talks about frivolous lawsuits, 
it focuses almost exclusively on frivolous claims by the plaintiffs 
only, and almost never on frivolous defenses by the defendant who 
hopes merely to tire the plaintiff out with its frivolous defenses.

In the McDonalds case, evidence came out that McDonalds hoped that 
the old lady would die of unrelated, which substantially reduces 
the value of personal injury claims such as hers.  Please tell both 
sides of the story when you hear of the McDonalds case. 

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Re: [discuss] Envelope printing in OOo 1.1.3

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 11 January 2005 15:58, CPH wrote:
> On Wednesday 05 January 2005 14:05, +  Janis Klava wrote:
> >  [ MODERATED ] ***
> > Gentlemen,
> >
> > OOo still does not print envelopes as it should.

Hi Janis,

Your salutation (your opening "Gentlemen") cuts out more than half 
the human race.  It is both polite and in your own self interest to 
address both the women and the men on the list.  If I were a woman 
who had an answer to your issue, I might have ignored your post as 
it does not address women.  Bad form, dude.  

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Re: [discuss] OO.o evolution - thoughts?

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Monday 17 January 2005 08:42, Sarah Bate wrote:
> Hi!  My name is Sarah Bate and I used to work @ Sun as a PM for
> StarOffice 5.1-6.0 beta.  I am now a freelance writer and have
> been asked to write a short article on OO.o and it's evolution. 
> Much of this info I already have and have had from the OO.o
> inception, but now I am looking at the future path of OO.o from
> the perspective of the individual contributor.
>
> Ideally, I would like to spark a thread on this site (or another
> if it's sugessted) that can indivually summarize you goals for
> OO.o.

I use kmail, konq, etc because I like the lightweight feel.  I don't 
need the kind of tight integration that you get with Outlook and 
Office.  Or so I've heard.  I've never really used either.  Nor 
have I ever done more than look at Evolution.  So if you wanted to 
include a perspective about a kmail, konq user, that 's fine.  I 
can do everything I want with them.  Cut, paste, etc.

>
> I am looking forward to reading your blogs and getting intouch
> with you all again.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sarah Bate
>
>
>
>
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Re: [discuss] OOo distributed with USB flash drive

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Wednesday 19 January 2005 17:23, Tim Fairchild wrote:
> Recently I bought three ultra cheap usb drives for the kids from
> dick smith for schoolwork 128meg units... They came with the
> usual driver disk, but what was odd (and good) was that the disk
> was full of FLOSS software such as windows versions of OOo and
> gimp and such as well as windows and linux versions of mozilla
> products...
>
> Can only be a good thing...

This is really cool.  And very disruptive.  Meaning that Microsoft 
can't imitate it, which gives us a structural advantage. 

Do you have a link to dick smith with this product depicted?  I 
would like to post it on the Digital Tipping Point website. 

>
> tim

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Re: [discuss] Re: OCR

[Christian Einfeldt]

snip..

> > I have someone that wishes to know if there is any OCR software
> > that works with OpenOffice.org.

snip..

> I use a russian program, Abby FineReader pro, which is excellent
> -- extremely fast and accurate, mustlingual, and reasonably
> priced. It works fine with OOo: I can't remember how I got it to
> do so, but I have the option to export there directly.
>
> Try http://www.abbyy.com/finereader7/?param=28603

If we could get some documentation for this process of installing 
the OCR and using it, I am sure that it is something that would 
help bring lawyers in California to OOo.  

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Re: [discuss] Horrendous v2 changes...

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi Peter,

> There may be more I haven't run across yet, but these are
> annoying enough. The worst part, is that I feel like even when I
> file issues that the people don't really care. I guess if I was
> using MS Office, I would have no voice at all, but this is
> supposed to be a different place. This is supposed to be a
> community where we share our issues and can have a voice.

Yes, so just keep up your campaign.  If you don't like something, 
remember that there are no probably 50 million users of OOo, a 
number three times greater than the city of Sao Paulo, Brazil.  
That is an awfully large demand side.  Get enough of them on your 
side, and you will prevail.

>
> OOo is supposed to be innovative and unique and that is something
> I am going to miss.

Overall, I have been personally been happy with OOo's trajectory.  
With the exception of 1.1.3, which I recall had lots of bugs, OOo 
has steadily gotten better.  But it's like any other large group 
activity:  You might not always get what you want, but usually you 
will get what you really need.   

> Thanks for your time.

Don't give up your fight.  Just ask Daniel Carrera.  He has had lots 
of gripes with OOo, but he has stuck by, given lots to the 
community, and got elected to the community council.  Your ability 
to get change depends on your ability to stick it out and talk 
until you are blue in the face, like Daniel has done.  And he still 
hasn't gotten lots of stuff he has asked for, but he has gotten the 
respect of the community. 

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[discuss] Re: [Marketing] banner prototypes

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Monday 24 January 2005 00:34, Mario Debono wrote:
> Nice Work !
>
> Mario

I never cease to be amazed by the power of open source.  Those 
banners are really very very cool.  Very slick.  Quite beautiful.

>
> to complete the buttons gallery, i have created some banner
> prototypes: http://ooo.nicubunu.ro/banners/
>
> those images are optimized for file size not for 'eye candy'
> because their purpose is to be placed on high traffic.
> some of them have the same style with some of the images in
> "soon-to-be-official" splash-screen contest because i feel the
> necessity
>
> for a consistent look and feel.
>
> i called the images 'prototypes' because they lack an important
> component: the marketing slogan and i haven't adventured to
> compose it myself.

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Re: [discuss] Re: OCR

[Christian Einfeldt]

snip...

> >I just (this weekend) purchased Dragon Natrually Speaking 8 Pro
> > and installed on a Windows machine and did basic testing in MSO
> > Word 2000, Publisher, Works, and OO.o.
> >
> >It did work to create a basic document.  However, I did need the
> > Pro version and not standard and the price for DNS 8Pro is $199
> > (which I thought was high).  But I liked the way Dragon trained
> > to my voice quickly and OO.o worked well with it.  I then just
> > did a basic (Duh) conversion test taking the OOo doc into Word,
> > then saved it to ascii. Opened into Works and then in MS
> > Publisher and it worked
>
> What I'll do is contact the Dragon people (scansoft), to see if
> they would like to include, as a value add, OOo.  We try to
> contact other such companies, and if you know of any, please let
> the
> dev@bizdev.openoffice.org team know.

Hi Louis and Sarah,

Sarah, thanks for your post.  I'm a lawyer, and members of our 
lawyer group out here in California have been talking about this 
issue of Dragon.  We didn't know of anyone who had used Dragon with 
OOo, and I know that Dragon was one of the things that has been 
holding many lawyers back from trying OOo.  So I am cross-posting 
this to the CAOC gen list.

For those colleagues on the CAOC general list, if Louis 
Suarez-Potts, the OOo community lead, is successful at persuading 
the Dragon people to include OOo with Dragon, you might be able to 
get a copy of OpenOffice.org with Dragon Naturally Speaking in the 
future.

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Re: [discuss] The INGOTs: community building for OO.o

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 25 January 2005 01:12, M. Fioretti wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2004 15:03:54 PM -0800, Christian Einfeldt
>
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > For those of you who haven't cruised Ian Lynch's site or looked
> > in detail at Ian's INGOTs biz, you really should do so. Ian has
> > basically hit upon the fantastic idea of helping to build a
> > community by providing OOo skills certification for users
>
> [...]
>
> > I find this model to be incredibly important, and we might
> > wanna look at how we can leverage Ian's idea as a way of
> > bringing people into our community.
>
> When Christian posted this, I had already contacted Ian to do my
> bit to help him and spread the word about INGOTs. Even if it took
> longer than I hoped, the result is now online at:
>
> http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/19/1728201

Nice interview, Marco and Ian!

Ian, if you can make it to SF, I have established a good 
relationship with a teacher here that I am sure is going to develop 
into something quite positive.  I think that you INGOTs program 
will really help these kids and the teachers get what open source 
is all about.  I have given the school just two computers for now, 
but there are plans for much, much more.  This teacher is 
completely pumped by FLOSS, because this school has nada, nothing, 
zilch, zero, and the kids have less.  We hear about how poor 
Extremadura is, but I gotta tell you, these SF kids have so very 
little.  

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Re: [discuss] Need some Market data with respect to Oo and Linux - Can somebody help?

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 25 January 2005 10:21, John wrote:
>  Hi all,
>
> i want some market details with respect to Open office. If
> somebody can share the numbers, i will be happy, if not if
> somebody can direct me to a page where i can extract from.

Maria Winslow has written an excellent book that touches on the 
subject.  Her book is called "The Practical Manager's Guide to Open 
Source."  You might wanna check out her website:

http://www.windows-linux.com

I wrote a review of her book here:

http://madpenguin.org/Article3259.html

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Re: [discuss] Need some Market data with respect to Oo and Linux - Can somebody help?

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 25 January 2005 10:21, John wrote:
>  Hi all,
>
> i want some market details with respect to Open office. If
> somebody can share the numbers, i will be happy, if not if
> somebody can direct me to a page where i can extract from. i have
> to pitch with an angel with respect to my product and
> substantiate that it is worthy of us to write an add-in into Open
> office on Linux.

I would like to post the answers that John comes up with here on the 
Digital Tipping Point website:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com

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Re: [discuss] Re: Re: OCR

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 25 January 2005 06:24, Sarah Bate wrote:
> Thank you Christian.  Let me know if you want me to write up my
> testing steps.
> I just did a basic recognition test in each package that I have
> on my system.

I wouldn't know where to store them, but I would think that there 
must be someplace on the website that they could be stored.  So 
yes, I think that your work in documenting how to get Dragon 
working with OOo would be a huge, huge, benefit.  I'm sure that I 
could link to that page from 

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com

>
> Thanks,
>
> Sarah Bate
>
> "Christian Einfeldt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > snip...
> >
> >> >I just (this weekend) purchased Dragon Natrually Speaking 8
> >> > Pro and installed on a Windows machine and did basic testing
> >> > in MSO Word 2000, Publisher, Works, and OO.o.
> >> >
> >> >It did work to create a basic document.  However, I did need
> >> > the Pro version and not standard and the price for DNS 8Pro
> >> > is $199 (which I thought was high).  But I liked the way
> >> > Dragon trained to my voice quickly and OO.o worked well with
> >> > it.  I then just did a basic (Duh) conversion test taking
> >> > the OOo doc into Word, then saved it to ascii. Opened into
> >> > Works and then in MS Publisher and it worked
> >>
> >> What I'll do is contact the Dragon people (scansoft), to see
> >> if they would like to include, as a value add, OOo.  We try to
> >> contact other such companies, and if you know of any, please
> >> let the
> >> dev@bizdev.openoffice.org team know.
> >
> > Hi Louis and Sarah,
> >
> > Sarah, thanks for your post.  I'm a lawyer, and members of our
> > lawyer group out here in California have been talking about
> > this issue of Dragon.  We didn't know of anyone who had used
> > Dragon with OOo, and I know that Dragon was one of the things
> > that has been holding many lawyers back from trying OOo.  So I
> > am cross-posting this to the CAOC gen list.
> >
> > For those colleagues on the CAOC general list, if Louis
> > Suarez-Potts, the OOo community lead, is successful at
> > persuading the Dragon people to include OOo with Dragon, you
> > might be able to get a copy of OpenOffice.org with Dragon
> > Naturally Speaking in the future.
>
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Re: [discuss] Need some Market data with respect to Oo and Linux - Can somebody help?

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi John,

You were asking for studies showing the adoption of open source.  
This might be helpful.  It shows that:

Summary
It's not just on servers that Linux adoption is now rampant: the 
overall Linux solution stack is also growing, and growing fast. 
According to a new IDC study, announced yesterday by OSDL, the 
combined Linux market - desktops, servers, and packaged software 
running on Linux - will exceed $35 billion by 2008, with $10 
billion of that coming from Linux PC sales.

http://www.linuxworld.com/story/47529.htm

I hope that this helps.  Feel free to call if you need anything 
else.  Also, info like this will appear periodically on my website:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com

Christian Einfeldt
415-351-1300

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Re: [discuss] OT: GIMP for beginners

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Sunday 30 January 2005 03:45, Jacqueline McNally wrote:
> A new course has just begun on the LinuxChix Courses list, see:
> http://linuxchix.org/pipermail/announce/2005-January/000415.html

snip..

> LinuxChix Courses List: http://www.linuxchix.org/content/courses/

Hi Jacqueline, 

I have linked the Linux Chix site here at the Digital Tipping Point 
site.  It is my hope that after people see the film, folks who 
wanted to find out how to plug into open source will go to our site 
for an intro to what open source is, and where they can go to 
become part of whatever FLOSS group they like. 

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,92/Itemid,4/

Thanks for this link! 

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Re: [discuss] Re: Daniel on Groklaw!

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Sunday 30 January 2005 10:23, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> Michael A Chase wrote:
> > I think you are allowed to give a URL so we don't have to
> > searching around bumping into the furniture. :}b
> >
> > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050130002908154
>
> OOops   tee heee

go daniel go! 

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Re: [discuss] DRM

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 01 February 2005 20:01, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> Jacqueline McNally wrote:
> > Also, DRM is promoted as a feature in other office-suites, so
> > we do need to understand and be able to state succintly where
> > we stand on the issue.
>
> Yes, it's a difficult issue.

snip..

> I don't know. I'm just rambling right now. 

Actually, I think that you hit a lot of the issues correctly.  
Information rights management is important for those who want it, 
but it is important that it be open.  I met someone recently at a 
Creative Commons party that was working on open privacy.  I'll try 
to get the card back from my office neighbor and send the info to 
this list. 

In Christensen's terms, info rights management is part of moving up 
market.  As a disruptive technology improves, it needs to prepare 
for the day when there will come "competitive battles" in which the 
disruptive technology moves out of the separate value network in 
which it was nurtured to attack the incumbent's weakening value 
network.  People want DRM, so we need to eventually be able to 
provide it to them, but make it OPEN.  

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Re: [discuss] DRM

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 01 February 2005 22:54, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> > People want DRM, so we need to eventually be able to
> > provide it to them, but make it OPEN.
>
> It's more difficult than than:
>
>  * Some people want DRM.
>  * Some people abhor DRM.
>  * I doubt most people have a clear picture of what DRM is (I
> don't).

+1

>
>
> So, I agree we need to provide *something* to meet at least some
> of the needs of the first group. But *what* to provide is a very
> difficult matter.

+1

>
> Christian, could you provide a good definition of what DRM *is*.

Heh.  That's like the new judo student showing the instructor how to 
flip people.  But I will give it a try.

DRM is technology which allows a user to restrict access to 
technology by other users.  A broad definition, I know.  But 
workable.  In the context of an OOo doc, it means that you will 
have a mutual set of keys that you exchange with another OOo user, 
so that whenever that code is sent to that person, they and only 
then can open it, unless you want to allow other members of a 
defined group to open it. 

> Suppose I'm new at this whole DRM brouhaha. I come over to a list
> and say "hey, I just heard about something called DRM, can
> someone explain what it is?" What would you answer?

See above. 

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Re: [discuss] DRM

[Christian Einfeldt]

> I also
> presented the counter: one can have just more than adequate
> security using the technologies Joerg describes, which are open,
> and not ultimately forcing a dependency on a secretive
> corporation.

+1

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Re: [discuss] Bruce Schneier advices against MSO

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Wednesday 02 February 2005 11:06, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> Leading security researcher Bruce Schneier has provided a list of
> things you can do to improve your security.

Of these four items, I do the first three.  heh.  

WRT to number four, I can't believe that someone would guess my 
passwords.  They are events in my life that no one but me knows 
about.  How would anyone guess that?  Even now that I have 
announced it to the world?  Heh. 

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Re: [discuss] DRM

[Christian Einfeldt]

snip..

> Is anyone aware of a way those two concepts can co-exist? Because
> as soon as the content has been decrypted, an application could
> do anything with it, which renders DRM virtually unusable on the
> application level. DRM on the hardware level (like trusted
> computing) however still needs Applications to be authorized.
>
> Can anyone think of a scenario that would work?

I met someone at a creative commons party recently here in SF who is 
working on an open source solution.  I am a simple end user, so I 
can only repeat what the true geeks tell me.  I have loaned this 
person's card to a friend, who is not in his office next door at 
the moment.  When he gets back, I will get it from him. 

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Re: [discuss] DRM

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Wednesday 02 February 2005 19:19, Jacqueline McNally wrote:

snip...

> I started the conversation off with:
>
> See:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/24/community_source_program/
> CE giants open DRM to the community
> [Faultline, The Register, 24 January 2005]

Hi, 

Wow, this thread is so important that I have linked the thread on 
this page of the Digital Tipping Point site.  My thanks to the 
folks participating in this thread, including, but not limited to, 
Jacqueline and Daniel, as I have cut and pasted some of the links 
from your posts into links of their own on this page.  

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,93/Itemid,4/

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[discuss] open sourcing open source books on open source

[Christian Einfeldt]

Are you confused yet?  good.  

Jacqueline McNally came up with the brilliant idea of posting books 
about OOo on bookcrossings.com.  I loved the idea, and I bought 
five copies of one of the OOo users guides on bookcrossings.com.

Today, for the first time, I had the thrill of seeing that someone 
"caught" one of the books that I "wild released", meaning that I 
just left this book (with a copy of an OOo CD in it!!!) in a coffee 
shop in San Francisco, California.  Well, someone picked up that 
book, and went to the bookcrossers website to let me and 10,000 of 
my closest friends know that they had picked up the book, plus they 
commented on the book.  You can go to this link to read about it.

I am sooo excited about this marketing project.  This is a great 
way of reaching new users!!!  And the cool thing about it is that 
Microsoft CAN'T compete with us in this area, because IT'S FREE as 
in freedom and free as in beer, too.  

So this gets the open source message across to newbies in four ways:

1)  The books are about open source.
2)  The books contain open source code in the form of CDs.
3)  The bookcrossing.com project is itself about taking books (old 
or new) and just wild releasing them in places where someone else 
is likely to pick up the book and look at it.  That to me is an 
"open source" way of distributing books, because it is "free" as in 
beer and it is "free" as in frees speech.
4)  The new user can easily go to the website, read my review of the 
book, and then google OpenOffice.org and find out more about the 
project. 

Here is the link to the OOo book that I wild released.  

http://bookcrossing.com/journal/2409507

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Re: [discuss] Thoughts about saving files in non-OO native format

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi Rick, and Welcome!  

You have raised some really deep issues, and so you should probably 
know that there is a history of conversations around this kind of 
topic that you will enjoy coming up to speed on.  I hope that my 
reply will clearly give you my personal opinion, as well as offer 
some helpful background info.  

On Thursday 03 February 2005 18:12, Rick Owen wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I've just joined the list. If I'm posting to the wrong list

No problem, this is the correct list.

> If this turns out to be one of
> those flame inducing topics like asking "how can anyone use that
> piece of crap editor ?" on comp.editors then please know that
> I do it in ignorance.

No, my troll-guard slept through your entire email.  (heh). 

> Several times, however, I''ve installed OO on
> colleagues' computers only to have them call me in a panic when
> they save a document, edit it some more, and then get this
> message when they attempt to save it again:

snip

> The message itself is enough to discourage a potential Office
> user for switching 

Your email brings up several very deep points which bear much 
discussion.  I will try to summarize my personal opinion:  

1)  OpenOffice.org (OOo) is a disruptive technology (as Harvard biz 
prof Clayton Christensen uses that term) which caters to a 
different set of "customers" than Microsoft Office's best customers 
(please see link below for more on Christensen);

2)  OOo's best customers are "overshot" customers who are not 
willing to pay a premium for the extra features of Microsoft Office 
AND nonconsumers who simply can't afford or illegally copy 
Microsoft Office;

3)  OOo is exploding in countries like Brazil and Spain, where there 
are lots of overshot customers and non-consumers;

4) The office productivity suite is a commodity, and the business 
model for creation and distribution of the office suite is about to 
flip from functionality (Microsoft) to reliability then convenience 
and finally price;

5) Businesses which derive their incomes from the sale of the office 
productivity suite will increasingly face declining revenues, as 
the commoditization wave rolls ashore.  

I have written way too many similar emails here on this subject, and 
so to avoid being strangled by our fellow list mates, I will just 
say that you might wanna read some of these links, because there 
are lots of commonly-held values here at OOo that you will find out 
about by reading these links.  Of course, since this is an open 
source project, these values will constantly change, and your 
opinions are valuable.  Still, reading these links will bring you 
up to speed:

Our marketing page has lots of good info, especially our Strategic 
Marketing Plan, which forms kinda more or less the thoughts of our 
team as to the general direction that the marketing of this project 
should be heading:

http://marketing.openoffice.org/strategy/

Here is the general marketing page:

http://marketing.openoffice.org/

I think that open source is such a big deal and so different in the 
course of human history from anything that has gone before, I am 
heading up a community project to make a film about open source, 
called "The Digital Tipping Point".  You can read about it here:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/content/view/46/60/

> If it sounds like I'm on a soapbox, I am.  OpenOffice is good.
> Not good; great!  I want it to succeed in a big way! However, I
> know from personal experience that people are resitant to change
> and as soon as that message pops up (especially for someone
> sticking their neck out a bit), they'll just scrap it.

There is a really smart guy in Boston by the name of Bhaskar 
Chakravorti who wrote a book called "The Slow Pace of Fast Change", 
which is linked below.  We interviewed him for the Digital Tipping 
Point film.  Basically, Dr. Chak breaks this whole migration 
process down into its elemental pieces in his book.  As I said, 
your question raises some really deep issues, and to even touch on 
all of the very profound issues that your email raises wil take 
weeks and weeks of discussion and weeks and weeks of reading books; 
OR, you can just wait until September, 2005, when our movie comes 
out and will explain it all to you.  Heh.  

Seriously, though, we have talked lots and lots about this subject, 
and I have written lots and lots about Dr. Chak and Dr. 
Christensen, and that's just me, and there are many, many more 
people on this list who have written more clearly and more 
intelligently than I on this topic.  If you want to get just a 
thumbnail sketch of what we have discussed here about this topic, 
try googling Einfeldt Chakravorti Christensen disruptive and then 
step back from your monitor cause it's gonna explode. 

Here is Dr. Chak's link:

http://www.slowpacefastchange.com

Here is Christensen's link:

http://www.claytonchristensen.com

and his biz gig on selling books on disruption theory:

http://www.innosight.com

Again, We

Re: [discuss] Public Domain Image Site

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi Jonathan,

On Thursday 03 February 2005 18:04, Jonathon Coombes wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I was recently sent details of a site that contains public domain
> photos. This may be of use to the project, or at least to people
> who use OOo and need something in their galleries. :)
>
> http://www.burningwell.org/gallery/

There are some beautiful pics are that site.  I have linked it here 
on the Digital Tipping Point website:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,90/Itemid,4/

Thanks for the info! 

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[discuss] Great interview of OOo's Adam Doxtater

[Christian Einfeldt]

Here are some classic quotes from this interview, including a few 
full-on belly laughs.  (Hint: keep your eyes open for the dancing 
monkeys!)  Ya gotta love it.  Congrats, Adam! 

AD = Adam Doxtater.

AD: [snip...]  We take in a lot of feedback from our visitors.

NF: And how does that relate to Linux?

AD: We've created something that has formed a legitimate community 
of great people. If Linux, and Mad Penguin, is the one thing that 
can bind people of differing backgrounds, religion, or political 
views, then I want to be the one helping to tie the knot. Linux and 
open source as a whole promote many of the finer qualities we all 
have: leadership, motivation, teamwork, and charity without the 
promise of monetary other other material gain. 

[snip]

NF: How does a site like Mad Penguin acquire staffing?

AD: It's actually an amazing thing. The short answer is that the 
staff comes to me. For the most part people seem to just want to be 
a part of it all. But that's open source, right? Much of what you 
see today was directly contributed by our readers through 
suggestion. Mad Penguin essentially has a core cast, if you will, 
and they keep it going. Fred Blaise is one of the people who simply 
lived and breathed Mad Penguin. He's my right-hand man. Then 
there's Narayan Newton, another devoted Mad Penguin member turned 
sysadmin. He's been our FreeBSD guru since we've moved over to the 
new system.

NF: So have you met all of the people you work with on Mad Penguin?

AD: Personally? In person? God no! I'm a recluse! I can't even go to 
Wal-Mart without being sedated! Actually I've met Fred, Narayan, 
James (of course), and another member from the site named Grigg.

snip

NF: Are there any comical things that have happened on the site that 
you wouldn't mind sharing?

AD: You mean that are fit to print? As a matter of fact, we were 
laughing about some of this stuff the other day. We considered 
making a quotes page of all the off-color and funny things people 
have done and said on the site.

Here's one for you. We had published a review of -- SUSE I think it 
was -- anyway, there was some jerkoff that kept posting derogatory 
shit on the review and it was totally unwarranted. We blocked his 
IP address after he'd been warned several times. After a short 
while he came back with a different address touting that he could 
use any one of several thousand addresses. I don't go for that kind 
of shit at all, so I checked the origin of both IPs he used, traced 
them both back to Deutsch Telecom, and closed the Mad Penguin 
servers their entire IP block. That shut him up pretty quickly! 
Since that day it's been kind of a running joke in the Mad Penguin 
camp. Why ban one person when you can ban him and his entire 
continent to prove your point? Kind of sums up the Mad Penguin 
philosophy doesn't it? Why do it big if you can do it bigger and 
with dancing monkeys?

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[discuss] Adam Doxtater review, take 2 (forgot the link)

[Christian Einfeldt]

Doh!   Here's the link:

http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/01/26/1452249.shtml?tid=2&tid=31

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Re: [discuss] Default Email Client?

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Friday 04 February 2005 09:55, Rtnmi wrote:
> Can someone tell me if OpenOffice has a default email program for
> it?

As Nicu has pointed out, most people use Mozilla or Thunderbird.  
Rejoice, and be glad.  

>
> Thanks,
> Bob

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Re: [discuss] [Fwd: Autoreply to ***SPAM*** Re: [discuss] Suggestion regarding splash image]

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Saturday 05 February 2005 12:46, Peter Kupfer wrote:
> Is this real?

IMHO, no, it is phishing.

>
> I sent like 10 messages to the discuss and got one of these. I
> didn't cc anyone or anything else. I am subscribed to the list,
> and my post made it through.
>
> Can a moderator (or anyone really) comment on this? It appears
> that it might be a phishing scam.

I routinely ignore requests to go to someone's email box so that I 
have the privilege of corresponding with them.  If they want to 
receive email from me, they will do the work of adding me to their 
list of real emailers BEFORE they send it out.  Asking someone else 
to do your data entry for you as a condition of correspondence is, 
IMHO, rude.  

>
> Thanks.
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Autoreply to ***SPAM*** Re: [discuss] Suggestion
> regarding splash image
> Date: Sat,  5 Feb 2005 13:22:29 -0700 (MST)
> From: discuss@openoffice.org
> To: Peter Kupfer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> This a response regarding your message to discuss@openoffice.org
> about ***SPAM*** Re: [discuss] Suggestion regarding splash image
>
> Due to the increasing quantity of spam being received each day,
> we require that anyone sending email to this location be
> registered in our mail sender database.  Please go to
> http://www.hewlett-ward.com/index.php?pagename=register and
> complete the form.  Once this is done, we will be happy to
> deliver your mail to the desired recipient.  We apologize for
> this inconvenience but it is becoming a necessity.
>
> Please note that the generated whitelist is updated every 5
> minutes so please wait for at least 5 minutes before resending
> your email.  Also, if you did not send a message to the recipient
> knowingly, it is possible that one of the many email viruses has
> done this on your behalf.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at
> (403)208-2672.
>
> Thank you in advance for your co-operation.
>
> Steve Ward.

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Re: [discuss] Information about myself and brainstorming

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi Eugen,

Welcome! 

> BRING. OK, let's get to that part that may be of any interest
> to anyone. The ideas.  

Actually, there are some people who have complained that the OOo 
lists are too corporate, so having personal info is definitely a 
good thing.  


> 1) FAST
> --
> OpenOffice.org 1.x is terribly slow. 

That is true, and everyone knows it, and it is being worked on.  
OOo2.0 is supposedly going to be faster. 

> Unfortunately I've found it too slow even when all I'm running
> are 2 open documents, a browser and XMMS (audio player). Now
> don't get me wrong but I always expect more from open source then
> I do from proprietary systems. Which is why I expect OOo 2.0 will
> NOT force me into an upgrade but actually run faster then its
> older brother.

+1

But, it's a matter of developers and money.  Do you know any 
developers?  I'm guessing from your bio that you don't have any 
extra money to spare.  Me neither.  Bummer.   :-/   Oh well, we 
give what we can when we can how we can. 

>
> 2) SIMPLE
> -
> Don't get me the wrong way or anything. Contrary to popular
> belief I actually don't consider myself an idiot. I may not be
> the brightest fellow on a radius of 100 miles but I don't think
> I'm dumb as a rock either. The truth is 75% of OOo's users only
> use about 10% of what the menus offer.

+1

This is also true.  However, not everyone uses the same 10%, and 
IMHO, the community would like to have OOo be the robust open 
source office suite.  That means features.  There is always 
AbiWord, Koffice, etc.  Those are great open source office tools, 
but OOo is not them.  So, it seems that we are faced with a choice.  
Features or small footprint.  That is the beauty of open source, 
though, we have lots of choices.  But I personally don't see OOo 
getting smaller. 
> Another thing. Many of OOo's users(I dare say most though I may
> be mistaken) are converted MS Office or KOffice users. Now a
> whole new bunch of very complicated menus is going to mean their
> learning curve will be a bit more steep. If you're home user this
> is no problem, you do this in your spare time and that's it. But
> as a company, if you come to find migration is too costly in
> respect to time and that you're actually losing money instead of
> winning you won't migrate.

I have been working with local governments in my region, and more 
than one of them have said that the OOo GUI is a no-brainer for MSO 
(microsoft office) users.  I agree.  Maybe that's just me.  And 
him.  And her.  And a couple others.  Heh. 

>
> OK. Now here are a few ideas. (It's kinda late but there's always
> OOo 3.0 :) ) Let's look at the open-source world out there and
> see who the real successful folks are. Firefox is by far, the
> best example of successful OSS out there. And just as OOo they've
> been getting users through migration rather then new users. Of
> course they would have never made it if their app wasn't stable
> and secure (which are 2 of OOo's pluses as well) but there was
> another thing that really got them millions of users worldwide in
> an amount of months.

We have more users than Ff.  OOo does a bigger job than Ff.  Also, I 
have found Ff to be twitchy occasionally.  Ff is good, and I often 
use it on SuSE and Linspire, but I actually prefer Moz or Konq.  

> everything else can be implemented as plugins, I don't need them
> and exporting should be in the same menu with saving anyway.

Maybe this will work later, after OOo has 75% market share, and 
hoards of developers are popping up on the dev list every day.  But 
for now, it seems like you might like AbiWord or Koffice better.  
I'm not suggesting that your ideas don't have merit.  Instead, it 
seems impractical at this time, IMHO. 

> Everything else should be a plugin.

Have you tried tweaking your menus?  I know that it is possible for 
the end user to tweak lots of stuff in OOo.  

> Now of course I could extend this to all other menu items (and in
> the unlikely event anyone wants me to I will :) ) but you get the
> point.

Hopefully, the GUI will get more and more tweakable as time goes by.  
But that takes devs and money, or at least devs.  OOo is an end 
user app.  Devs like tweaky stuff, not GUI oriented stuff.  So we 
would really never have made it to where we are without Sun and now 
Novell, to name two.  Say what you want about corporations, and I 
am no worshipper of corporations, but I am eternally grateful to 
Sun for OOo.  Personally.  I use OOo every day.  Can you imagine 
trying to get OOo into place without Sun?  OOo is big now, and we 
are slowly trying to move away from Sun and get more broad based 
help.  Maybe you could dig up a few developers. 

> a) Introduce Business Related Templates

Have you tried looking here for templates?

http://support.openoffice.org/

What else do you need?  Why not create it and submit it?  

> b) Introduce an Office Collaboration Application

We have this feature.  Edit > changes > re

Re: [discuss] Popular macros?

[Christian Einfeldt]

> My bias would be:

> Ian's Reveal Codes [Both the Write, and Calc version]

+1  

Being a simple end user, this is also the ONLY macro that I have 
ever used (once), but I liked it! 

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Re: [discuss] Re: Extras for OOo

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Friday 04 February 2005 02:38, Daniel wrote:
> Daniel Carrera wrote:
> > Could someone help me put together a set of Extras?

Daniel, would you please ping me when you get this done?  I will 
link it here on the Digital Tipping Point site:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,90/Itemid,4/

It turns out that we have gotten 16,198 hits since Jan 15 2005  
How cool is that!  And with no advertising!  and still no formal 
announcement, either (because we are still ramping up, but I am 
guessing that we will have some kind of formal announcement soon). 

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Re: [discuss] Re: Extras for OOo

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Friday 04 February 2005 03:20, Shoshannah Forbes wrote:
> On ×', 2005-02-04 at 11:38 +0100, Daniel wrote:
> > for templates and graphics I've used the following:
>
> And there are the MLA templates at:
> http://www.cc.mie-u.ac.jp/~lq20106/eg5000/templates/
> (2nd half of the page)

Hi Shoshannah and everyone else,

We are building the international page at Digital Tipping Point.com.  
I have started very small, with just a link to the OOo native lang 
projects, and with a link to Shoshannah's xslf site.  If anyone 
would like to use space on our DTP.com site to talk about the 
tipping point in their countries, please let me know, and I will 
get you a password so that you can write at will on the site.  I am 
hoping that eventually we will have pages and pages of graphics, 
pics, audio, and video of tipping point in multiple languages on 
the site.  But for right now, this is all we've got:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/content/view/32/51/

Christian Einfeldt
415-351-1300

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[discuss] DTP progress blog

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi,

Adam Doxtater has built a community forum for the Digital Tipping 
Point film.  If you would like to know what is going on with the 
film; or talk about the film; etc., please feel free to go here:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_simpleboard/Itemid,63/func,view/id,7/catid,3/

If you would like to know about the DTP website, talk about it, 
etc., you can go here:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_simpleboard/Itemid,63/func,view/id,6/catid,4/

Thanks for bringing our site alive, Adam! 

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Re: [discuss] T-Shirts to generate donations

[Christian Einfeldt]

Hi

> OOo T-Shirts can be purchased.
> 
>
> I don't know about proceeds, I think they are a for profit group.

Yes, they are for a profit group, a group of one, a woman by the 
name of Solveig Haugland.  Solveig is an early contributor to OOo, 
and her small biz is an important part of the movement to build a 
business network around open source, as well as to provide a method 
for people to migrate from one business network to another business 
network.  

If you like thinking about biz issues around FLOSS, I recommend the 
works of Bhaskar Chakravorti and the Clayton Christensen team, who 
are linked and described here:

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,94/Itemid,4/

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Re: [discuss] Use of Open Office in Business

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Thursday 10 February 2005 06:26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi their,
>
>
> I wish to encourage the use of Open Office in the business
> community I work in.

Tell them that they also get great free tech support, if they want, 
or, if they need paid support, they can get it either from Sun 
Microsystems, or a small company called Flexiety, etc.  You know 
where to find Sun.  You can find Flexiety here:

http://www.flexiety.com

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Re: [discuss] Re: Giving text a structure - word processor tools

[Christian Einfeldt]

> Is there, by the way any good OO hint or creativity sajts on the
> web? Yo know, "have you tried this"  ideas

There are several links here to different sites.  Maybe one will 
work for you.

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,76/Itemid,4/

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Re: [discuss] Ideas

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Sunday 13 February 2005 19:01, James Walsh wrote:
> Hello...see my first OO letter, thanks.I'm on OSX.2.8

Cool, welcome!

Where did you get OOo?  Where did you first find out about it?  

I see you do storyboards, etc.  Please check out our film, the 
Digital Tipping Point.  It's an open source project.  We need 
animators, graphics, and music.  Please feel free to offer 
suggestions! 

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com

Christian Einfeldt

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[discuss] Re: [Marketing] Re: [native-lang] OOoRegiCon MP3s uploaded.

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Tuesday 15 February 2005 01:40, Charles-H.Schulz wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> this is a good idea. What a pity we don't have the movie at the
> same time!

+1

We are working on the movie.  Paul has now given me a total of 43 
CDs with audio on it to FTP up and look for volunteers to 
transcribe!  Holy smokes!  And I still have a busy law practice! 

So I am hoping to start putting up at least 5 CDs per day for the 
next several days.  Anyone who is interested in transcribing, 
please let me know, and I will get you a password and a folder.  I 
still owe Lars Nooden some audio, so I hope to have some stuff up 
later today! 

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Re: [discuss] OS X

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Sunday 20 February 2005 07:33, Ed Campbell wrote:
> Well, folks -- OpenOffice has been key to my migration away from
> M$oft for the past year or so.  Essentially, I was able to remove
> MSOffice completely from my computers.  However -- don't we
> always say that -- Linux experiments concluded that lots of fine
> effort still isn't ready for prime time in the broader
> marketplace of business -- which is what I do and need.

Check out OOo 2.0 before you give up.  It's supposed to be pretty 
slick.  I'm a simple end user, and so I haven't been able to 
download it yet, but I hear it's quite good. 

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Re: [discuss] OOoRegiCon Slides !!

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Sunday 20 February 2005 02:38, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> Hi everyone!
>
> I've put up slides for the recent RegiCon in San Diego, USA. Just
> so you get to meet some of the crowd that went there:

Hi Daniel, thanks for putting up those slides.  It's lots of fun to 
see pics of the great folks that I met.  

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[discuss] OOo mentioned in computer user mag

[Christian Einfeldt]

Here are a couple of quotes from the Feb issue of Computer user mag.  
FLOSS is their cover story.  Their server is down now, so go to 
this sister site:

http://www.kccomputeruser.com/

Here's a quote from "into the Great wide open" by Keith Mansfield:

"The most potentially disruptive movement in open source is in the 
form of applications like OpenOffice.org, a clone of the Microsoft 
Office suite, and OpenGroupware, which is a clone of Microsoft 
Exchange. I believe these two applications are the key to 
converting government and business offices into abandoning 
Microsoft and using open-source alternatives. Why? Because they are 
free while Office and Exchange are very expensive, and they have 
the potential to be more open and friendly to more data formats."

http://www.kccomputeruser.com/articles.php?ARTID=432 for that 
article

I'm not sure whether to be offended or flattered on behalf of OOo by 
the "clone" remark.;-)  

Here's another article from that same issue.

Making the switch
2005-02-10

Migrating from Windows to Linux is only as as stressful as you want 
it to be.

By Dan Heilman

From most of what's written and said about the subject, it would be 
easy to presume that open source is largely the province of 
hardcore programmers and dedicated shade-tree computer mechanics. 
However, taking advantage of what open source--and in particular, 
Linux--has to offer can mean widely varying degrees of commitment 
to the platform. If you're thinking of adopting it for your 
business, here are a few pointers to keep in mind. 
  
snip
 
 Who's it for?
 
 Laushman says Linux also makes sense if you employ such technical 
workers as software developers and engineers--or, on the other 
hand, if you have employees who need only a few computer functions 
to do their jobs, such as call centers operators or receptionists, 
or who use nothing but word processors, spreadsheets, and Web 
browsers. 
 
 "They can do very well with a user-friendly Linux desktop 
distribution like Xandros or SUSE and the free open-source 
productivity package called OpenOffice, which is very similar to 
Microsoft Office," she says. 
 
Here's the link for that article.

http://www.kccomputeruser.com/articles.php?ARTID=430

Christian Einfeldt
415-351-1300

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Re: [discuss] new to open office

[Christian Einfeldt]

On Wednesday 23 February 2005 12:55, joanne rancourt wrote:
> I am new to open office and was wondering if this was the right
> group to join. I have used MS office for years now but as I could
> never really afford it at home I was using a copy. This caused
> problems when reinstalling so decided to boycot it and go for
> open office which I heard a lot about. I just found out there is
> even a new version coming out soon and am looking forward to
> using this program. Hopefully it is not too different to msoffice
> so I get the hang of it quickly.

Hi Joanne, and welcome.  Here is a link for free tech support, if 
you have any questions.  The last link in particular would probably 
be most useful for you. 

http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,76/Itemid,4/

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